Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: schadd on January 18, 2018, 01:26:11 pm
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welcome to M113: sufjan stevens mafia
this game will use a closed, invented 13-player setup in the style of normal games (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewforum.php?f=2) from mafiascum. the working title of the setup is sirfjohn stevememes em one hundred thirteen masterpiece sing-a-long blog
mod: schadd
reviewer: RadiantCowbells
widows in paradise: ash
cities and towns of the united states:
1. Robz888
2. DatSwan sauce
3. faust
4. SirClemens
5. mcmcsalot
6. Teproc
7. pingpongsam
8. Galzria
9. iguanaiguana
10. Cuzz
11. The_Wine_Merchant
12. SpaceAnemone
13. LaLight
The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.
The Rest:
1. Bold, aquamarine text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights
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ethos:
(https://i.imgur.com/g3mPI2H.png)
taken from this page (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game), in case you want to click all the links.
i will assemble a 10 town vs. 3 scum setup using exclusively the normal roles & modifiers from this list. you can expect there to be less than 6 power roles for town and less than 3 power roles for scum.
- my goal for the game is to be balanced and reasonable; i am attempting to provide a 50-50 winrate for both alignments, while also having nuanced un-breakable gameplay. players ought to achieve good outcomes from good decisions and won't get utterly dumpstered by some rando role interaction
- any number of each role can be present. i could have, for instance, 5 vigilantes. this would conflict with approximately every convention from the first point, however. no one can have more than one distinctive role, but multiple modifiers are possible.
- each non-VT role will have a unique flavor / song flip, VTs will just be dealt with the same way as people from the previous song-theme games (lyrics relevant to the person/situation)
- setup was made before flavor was considered. scum will have a bunch of safe fakeclaims. john wayne gacy jr. will not be the name of any roles.
- any clarification question can be asked at any time, in public or in QT. an exhaustive clarifications list is pretty much impossible.
- no one will be able to use more than one action each night. mafia will be unable to communicate during the day unless they have an encryptor.
bonus mechanic: each day, each living person is able to publicly submit a setup (specify all existing town & scum power roles) and i will say whether or not that would be within the realm of possibility for this game (and what reason if not). note that this covers possibility and not probability; y'all can feel free to pine over whether i am more or less likely to do certain specific things at your leisure
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/in
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/in sauce
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/in
Can you confirm that the game will only have roles from the list you posted (the page you linked to states that there may be one invented role)?
Does this mean that mafia will have no shared factional powers other than their nightkill?
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yes and yes
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/in
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/in
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Got scared off by the bonus mechanic + one game at a time rule
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What's a sufjan ?
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Also /in
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Got scared off by the bonus mechanic + one game at a time rule
Oh yea I haaate the bonus mechanic but of course there is the must be in at least one game at all times rule so I'm in anyway.
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So, if I don't read the setup that means one of the possible roles is IC and I get to be that?
Alrighty, then, /IN
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What's a sufjan ?
good question!
Got scared off by the bonus mechanic + one game at a time rule
Oh yea I haaate the bonus mechanic but of course there is the must be in at least one game at all times rule so I'm in anyway.
what what what!
what is the issue with it?
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What's a sufjan ?
good question!
Got scared off by the bonus mechanic + one game at a time rule
Oh yea I haaate the bonus mechanic but of course there is the must be in at least one game at all times rule so I'm in anyway.
what what what!
what is the issue with it?
I just dislike the potential of mod confirming speculated setups. It just feels strange and promotes public setup speculation which I don't like.
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What's a sufjan ?
good question!
Got scared off by the bonus mechanic + one game at a time rule
Oh yea I haaate the bonus mechanic but of course there is the must be in at least one game at all times rule so I'm in anyway.
what what what!
what is the issue with it?
I just dislike the potential of mod confirming speculated setups. It just feels strange and promotes public setup speculation which I don't like.
so i guess i'll add a poll.
i see what you're saying. for the first point i don't think "confirming" is going to be a big problem - there can always be more or less power in unflipped scum to account for more or less town PRs, and there is also gonna be a bit of a range to the relative powers anyway due to, like, fallibility. the mechanic doesn't add to the setup solvability more than ought to be present if people were used to the setup design, which some are and some aren't.
for the second thing, yes i sort of agree. especially the notion of, like, spending a lot of effort to find a certain setup speculation that's the most informative, and judging other people based on how they do that. huge hassle if it doesn't really interest you. to try to police that i could:
-not change it (which i think is most, like, altruistic? for general setup speculation) and rely on y'all to self-police how seriously you take it
-have it be private and informal (i.e., in QT and you can submit as many setups as you want until i inevitiably rip my hair out)
-remove it and let people use e.g. the game archive (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=8446927#p8446927) as a reference (perhaps more elegant but not always aligned with how i in particular would make the setups)
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Tag
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/k
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I'm not voting in the poll because trying to deduce a setup is so far outside my skill set that it is immaterial to me that this is even a thing.
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For you Schadd? /in
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so that is startlingly unanimous but ok. sometimes i worry that i'm influencing you guys with the answer names too much
For you Schadd? /in
if there's anything to say
if there's anything to do
if there's any other way,
i'll do anything for you
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so that is startlingly unanimous but ok. sometimes i worry that i'm influencing you guys with the answer names too much
"Oh my god schadd uses caps. That has to be the correct answer!"
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see i would think the opposite
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Can’t wait for the inevitable “poll claim” once the game starts.
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/in strange ideas
In stranger times
I've no idea
What's right sometimes.
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Can’t wait for the inevitable “poll claim” once the game starts.
it is public. there should be a thing that says "view votes"
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/k
this was an /in btw
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I'll play but dont like the bonus mechanic
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I'll play but dont like the bonus mechanic
Yay!
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/Ineed a game :-)
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/Ineed a game :-)
Wooo one more, one more!
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Got me here, /in
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I'm ready for my PM!
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crankin em out now!!
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also as per overwhelming majority in the pool i will not do the setup thing
YOU GUYS JUST GOTTA FIGURE IT OUT NO HELP
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VT PM (each PR will be introduced as "[flavor name], the [role name]")
welcome to M113! you are a vanilla townie
look at me, not copying the VT pm from some other game. each night you can do NOTHING.
each day you can talk and vote.
you win when all mafia members have been eliminated.
mafia goon PM
welcome to M113! you are the general set of problems in the world; a mafia goon!
each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt link (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389194067747274769/410199739091517440/bloof.gif)], and one of you may kill somebody. you can also talk and vote in the game thread during the day.
you win when a phase is entered when mafia make up at least half of the people alive, or when nothing can prevent that.
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PMs going out now everybody say "confirm" in your QT i will start the game once all of you have confirmed (minimum of 24hr) good luck scum have fakeclaims
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oh garps it seems as though i copy pasted everyone's at link in such a way that it smalltexted all of them
i will resend to anyone that needs it later
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https://youtu.be/3mLSeqNS8rs?t=23s (https://youtu.be/3mLSeqNS8rs?t=23s)
i fell in love again
all things go, all things go
drove to chicago
all things know, all things know
we sold our clothes to the state
i don't mind, i don't mind
i made a lot of mistakes,
in my mind, in my mind
Day 1 Starts!
Vote count 1.0
not voting (13): Robz888, DatSwan, faust, SirClemens, mcmcsalot, Teproc, pingpongsam, Galzria, iguanaiguana, Cuzz, The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 starts now and ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time. thread unlucked.
mod notes
- gonna remove the poll, no extra setup prompting stuff won.
- note the last couple posts for a bit of setup stuff.
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First! vote: SA, missed you!
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vote: schaad for taking way longer than he said to start this
i definitely took as long as i said i would you stinky boy
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First! vote: SA, missed you!
Missed you too!
Vote: LL :-)
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I keep thinking work will slow down soon, but it never happens. Ugh. But I'll try and be as active as I can.
do you happen to work on a train or airplane? those are typically going to be at a consistent fast pace
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Hello everyone!
This is my second game overall, the first being NM11 where I played okay on the first two days and absolutely terrible on the later days. I hope to play better this game.
Looking forward to a great game with you!
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
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I keep thinking work will slow down soon, but it never happens. Ugh. But I'll try and be as active as I can.
do you happen to work on a train or airplane? those are typically going to be at a consistent fast pace
dude he is "the WINE merchant". Napa just got burnt to a crisp though...
Vote:TMW for clearly lying about work
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
probz not this early?
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
probz not this early?
I think it could have value.
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
Do it.
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So i almost prefaced my statement with “really youbare the only one that knows” but yeah I’m not saying “no bro don’t do it” just i mean... the value of you clearing yourself as Town weighed against the knoledge of your claim combined with the fact that there will inevitably be non-believers... just self check on the town upside instead of the iguana upside is all I’m trying to say
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
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So i almost prefaced my statement with “really youbare the only one that knows” but yeah I’m not saying “no bro don’t do it” just i mean... the value of you clearing yourself as Town weighed against the knoledge of your claim combined with the fact that there will inevitably be non-believers... just self check on the town upside instead of the iguana upside is all I’m trying to say
This is towny from DatSwan.
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
Yeah you can be town.
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
This is reasonable.
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
vote: iguana for even bringing up claiming immediately i'm so sick of insta claims and mass claims.
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vote: iguana because I too hate this garbage
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What's with all the negativity here?
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Believe it or not, that's actually not at all what I said!
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I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
vote: iguana for even bringing up claiming immediately i'm so sick of insta claims and mass claims.
Every game is different and unique, sometimes claiming is good, sometimes not
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Believe it or not, that's actually not at all what I said!
Well it would be pointless for me to ask a question that you have already posted the answer to.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Believe it or not, that's actually not at all what I said!
Well it would be pointless for me to ask a question that you have already posted the answer to.
Ah so I actually transposed the words "would" and "you" in your post and thought you were being severely obtuse.
But you were still being kind of obtuse because obviously the answer to your question is no.
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Iguana should not claim or explain further, but I accept that he's probably town.
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vote: iguana because I too hate this garbage
Vote: Cuzz. Second vote is scummier.
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Didn't realize Vote: Robz888 was in this game
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Didn't realize Vote: Robz888 was in this game
Vote: pps because Robz is in every game.
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Fun fact, there is no way everyone was Kung fu fighting.
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Fun fact, there is no way everyone was Kung fu fighting.
In fact, that's a little bit frightening.
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Actually vote: cuzz
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vote: Cuzz looks good
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Actually vote: cuzz
Vote: mcmc
As a wise man said,
Second vote is scummier.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
I agree that cryptic posts are frustrating. I think I believe in the likelihood of Iguana being town more than I might have it the same statement had been made by a player like Ashersky, though.
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Didn't realize Vote: Robz888 was in this game
Oh, hey! Look who else is in the game! Vote: PPS
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Fun fact, there is no way everyone was Kung fu fighting.
Huh?
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Vote count 1.1
Cuzz (3): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, LaLight
pingpongsam (2): Cuzz, SpaceAnemone
The_Wine_Merchant (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (1): faust
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time. thread unlucked.
mod notes
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Cuss doesn't have to be scum, he was grumpy at me last time we played together too.
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Cuzz*
Sorry phone autocorrect.
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
you would
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
you would
Yes
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
you would
Yes
I don't accept this argument. The iguana is town part, at least. And think he should claim if he thinks he should (looks like he isn't going to, which is fine), but find those giving town credit without actually hearing what he has to say/claim mildly to moderately suspicious.
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That would be faust, Robz and galz.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
And, by the same token, all of us are town!
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
And, by the same token, all of us are town!
Most of us, probably, I would say, yes. But that's more random sampling than anything else. The point is, scum - to - scum pairings like this don't happen out of the gates D1. There's no point. For Iguana or for anybody else. If Iguana is scum his partners will have stayed neutral, silent, or against him. It's not unreasonable, as TWM suggests, for scum to call things out as townie by townie players to gain town cred themselves for "good reads". No problem at all with TWM getting mild scum vibes from that. But I believe those exact same vibes point towards a likely town!iguana.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
Vote:Galz
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
And, by the same token, all of us are town!
Most of us, probably, I would say, yes. But that's more random sampling than anything else. The point is, scum - to - scum pairings like this don't happen out of the gates D1. There's no point. For Iguana or for anybody else. If Iguana is scum his partners will have stayed neutral, silent, or against him. It's not unreasonable, as TWM suggests, for scum to call things out as townie by townie players to gain town cred themselves for "good reads". No problem at all with TWM getting mild scum vibes from that. But I believe those exact same vibes point towards a likely town!iguana.
I guess I should make it clear that I don't agree at all, and I see no reason why scum!iguana's partners wouldn't townread him for this especially if it was premeditated, and the only reason that scum/scum pairing is unlikely is purely statistical.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
And, by the same token, all of us are town!
Most of us, probably, I would say, yes. But that's more random sampling than anything else. The point is, scum - to - scum pairings like this don't happen out of the gates D1. There's no point. For Iguana or for anybody else. If Iguana is scum his partners will have stayed neutral, silent, or against him. It's not unreasonable, as TWM suggests, for scum to call things out as townie by townie players to gain town cred themselves for "good reads". No problem at all with TWM getting mild scum vibes from that. But I believe those exact same vibes point towards a likely town!iguana.
I guess I should make it clear that I don't agree at all, and I see no reason why scum!iguana's partners wouldn't townread him for this especially if it was premeditated, and the only reason that scum/scum pairing is unlikely is purely statistical.
Stats:
Variable A: Skum trying to pull some shit
Variable B: Town trying to make a muck.
either way don't claim. let's move on.
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also just remembered how much i despise this part of the game
unvote
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
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not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Woah.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
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not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Woah.
What?
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
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not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Woah.
What?
I just realized Teproc is in this game.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
DS obviously exaggerated what always is happening.
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I think Cuzz' reaction on ii claim was a little off. What does meta say about this?
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
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cryptic stuff said by people in the beginning of D1 is almost always a sign of town, I say this as a person who does this sometimes. And as much as a lot of you doesn't like this stuff, it's still useful. That said I agree with ii being town.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
rephrase : "alive - pending skum"
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
Especially if there is the Tracker.
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
How is it just like that?
II would be caught is skummy phrasing
II/whomever could only be caught if a claim went through
Your first statement and your last don't parse
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
I can make a lot of assumptions as any alignment. In fact, I can make assumptions about iguana's alignment better than scum because scum already knows and thus cannot assume.
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
I can make a lot of assumptions as any alignment. In fact, I can make assumptions about iguana's alignment better than scum because scum already knows and thus cannot assume.
cmon Awaclus isnt even playing this game...
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
rephrase : "alive - pending skum"
I still don't get it. Are you saying you don't like the part of the game where I am alive? That's kind of mean. Also I would be surprised if I ever posted something that was in agreement to that sentiment...
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
How is it just like that?
II would be caught is skummy phrasing
II/whomever could only be caught if a claim went through
Your first statement and your last don't parse
What I am trying to say is that if you're town and you make a cryptic message about your role, and you are being lynched, you just say what you meant and mostly you're clear. If you're scum leaving a cryptic message about town role, then when you are being lynched, you can't do anything because you will be caught on lies. In this game scum has no info about town roles if I have read the setup correctly, so there's no incentive to enter D1 with risky claim.
PPE: 2
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
rephrase : "alive - pending skum"
I still don't get it. Are you saying you don't like the part of the game where I am alive? That's kind of mean. Also I would be surprised if I ever posted something that was in agreement to that sentiment...
lol i hope that wasn't what he meant
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
I can make a lot of assumptions as any alignment. In fact, I can make assumptions about iguana's alignment better than scum because scum already knows and thus cannot assume.
...... right.... because they don't have to assume since they know....
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
rephrase : "alive - pending skum"
I still don't get it. Are you saying you don't like the part of the game where I am alive? That's kind of mean. Also I would be surprised if I ever posted something that was in agreement to that sentiment...
ok first all aside no not saying that. sorry if you took it that way.
butttttttt... not to be a horrible person... but like.... you die... A LOT N1. I did no mean to say "I hate the part of the game that has faust" it just so happens that I hate the early game stages of the game, and those just so happen to be the ones that you are most in attendance.
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Wouldn't this game be much more enjoyable for everyone if you did not go into it with this attitude?
I enjoy these games quite a lot.... just not the dumb part at the beginning. which if I remember..... you have actually agreed with me about in previous games? that's kind of weird.
I don't know what "at the beginning" means for you. D1 is my favorite Day of mafia. Which is good really, because often enough it's all I get.
in the beginning = the part you are alive/skum
rephrase : "alive - pending skum"
I still don't get it. Are you saying you don't like the part of the game where I am alive? That's kind of mean. Also I would be surprised if I ever posted something that was in agreement to that sentiment...
ok first all aside no not saying that. sorry if you took it that way.
butttttttt... not to be a horrible person... but like.... you die... A LOT N1. I did no mean to say "I hate the part of the game that has faust" it just so happens that I hate the early game stages of the game, and those just so happen to be the ones that you are most in attendance.
Have you already decided to kill faust N1? :)
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either way don't claim. let's move on.
Move on to where?
idk. talking about dumb shit for 6 days until someone dies?
Discussing the implications of iguana’s brief desire to claim is hardly dumb shit. It makes me townread ii for helping us skip the „talking about dumb shit“ part.
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
How is it just like that?
II would be caught is skummy phrasing
II/whomever could only be caught if a claim went through
Your first statement and your last don't parse
What I am trying to say is that if you're town and you make a cryptic message about your role, and you are being lynched, you just say what you meant and mostly you're clear. If you're scum leaving a cryptic message about town role, then when you are being lynched, you can't do anything because you will be caught on lies. In this game scum has no info about town roles if I have read the setup correctly, so there's no incentive to enter D1 with risky claim.
PPE: 2
When did II say that his cryptic message was about his *role*? I thought it was just about the PM. IIRC last time someone pulled this it was Awaclus talking about the effing time stamp or something.
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Ah ok nevermind, he did say it was about his role. Carry on.
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
What does "the same stuff" mean here?
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
What does "the same stuff" mean here?
Cryptic telling about the role. It was either a vague breadcrumb or this stuff. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16635.msg661554#msg661554)
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
What does "the same stuff" mean here?
Cryptic telling about the role. It was either a vague breadcrumb or this stuff. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16635.msg661554#msg661554)
Funny thing is no one was able to read the cryptic stuff, but everyone knew I am town and we won mostly because of it.
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vote: Robz888, as I got the Cuzz' confusion. Robz seems off as well. Also something pings me about faust, but I can't really tell
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
What does "the same stuff" mean here?
Cryptic telling about the role. It was either a vague breadcrumb or this stuff. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16635.msg661554#msg661554)
Right, that's what I thought. And so you don't think there's any likelihood that there's a community meta that doing this nonsense gets you tagged as obvtown out of the gate? Which scum could then exploit?
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anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
You can do that, true. But I myself did the same stuff one-two times and was obv!town till the end of the game or being killed.
I mean what in the world can scum know about town roles? Nothing. So ii will be caught on lies just like that.
What does "the same stuff" mean here?
Cryptic telling about the role. It was either a vague breadcrumb or this stuff. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16635.msg661554#msg661554)
Right, that's what I thought. And so you don't think there's any likelihood that there's a community meta that doing this nonsense gets you tagged as obvtown out of the gate? Which scum could then exploit?
I wouldn't say this happen as often so it would be something scum could exploit. Not like there is one in every game. And don't get me wrong, I don't think II is scum for 100%. At one point he will be asked to back up his words and then we can think about was this real or counterfeited.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.
Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?
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I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.
Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?
Interesting white-knighting here ;)
well, I would expect not the bare words and statements, but at least a back up of why he agrees with Galz, why he thinks that ii is town, anything else, even RVS!
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.
Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?
Interesting white-knighting here ;)
well, I would expect not the bare words and statements, but at least a back up of why he agrees with Galz, why he thinks that ii is town, anything else, even RVS!
Are you really saying "I would expect robz to post thought out and backed-up ideas early day 1" because I just can't remember the last time he did that as either alignment.
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I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
Wanna actually be IC use your town cred to engage people and create even more discussions while accruing reads based on said discussions then if we get into a lul in game state you can slam some of those reads on us with a vote/case. you know pro-town things not just pro-iguana things.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.
Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?
Interesting white-knighting here ;)
well, I would expect not the bare words and statements, but at least a back up of why he agrees with Galz, why he thinks that ii is town, anything else, even RVS!
Are you really saying "I would expect robz to post thought out and backed-up ideas early day 1" because I just can't remember the last time he did that as either alignment.
I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
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I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
See this is the shit I’m talking about.
Vote: iguana
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
-
I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
I voted for a person who didn’t participate in a game yet with a weak reasoning so this person would speak to me. Or like it just happened will participate in a game :)
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
I voted for a person who didn’t participate in a game yet with a weak reasoning so this person would speak to me. Or like it just happened will participate in a game :)
Mcmc is ruthless when it comes to weak early game reasoning!
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
I voted for a person who didn’t participate in a game yet with a weak reasoning so this person would speak to me. Or like it just happened will participate in a game :)
Mcmc is ruthless when it comes to weak early game reasoning!
And that’s a good thing imo
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
And these are instances where they reacted to their scum partner, in a premeditated town-cred grab?
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
I voted for a person who didn’t participate in a game yet with a weak reasoning so this person would speak to me. Or like it just happened will participate in a game :)
Mcmc is ruthless when it comes to weak early game reasoning!
And on that note, so are you(lalight) saying that your calling robz scummy was intended to get him to respond and create more interactions or was it intended to be a weak early game vote because you found robz scummy for his lackluster posts at that point?
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I mean do you want me to give you thought out and backed-up ideas early D1? I create interactions!
I don’t understand this post.
I voted for a person who didn’t participate in a game yet with a weak reasoning so this person would speak to me. Or like it just happened will participate in a game :)
Mcmc is ruthless when it comes to weak early game reasoning!
And on that note, so are you(lalight) saying that your calling robz scummy was intended to get him to respond and create more interactions or was it intended to be a weak early game vote because you found robz scummy for his lackluster posts at that point?
Both, actually. I felt scummy from him and wanted more interaction
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
More importantly than how generic scum or town would react why don't you grab three people who reacted and let us know how you think town!them would react, how scum!them would react, and then what you think that says about them.
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
Yeah you can be town.
Faust initial reaction to iguana post very pro town iguana.
I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
And, by the same token, all of us are town!
Most of us, probably, I would say, yes. But that's more random sampling than anything else. The point is, scum - to - scum pairings like this don't happen out of the gates D1. There's no point. For Iguana or for anybody else. If Iguana is scum his partners will have stayed neutral, silent, or against him. It's not unreasonable, as TWM suggests, for scum to call things out as townie by townie players to gain town cred themselves for "good reads". No problem at all with TWM getting mild scum vibes from that. But I believe those exact same vibes point towards a likely town!iguana.
I guess I should make it clear that I don't agree at all, and I see no reason why scum!iguana's partners wouldn't townread him for this especially if it was premeditated, and the only reason that scum/scum pairing is unlikely is purely statistical.
So here galz is saying scum is unlikely to come out suppoorting scum!iguana's statement and that makes iguana more likely to be town, I agree with you if iguana is scum and decided to do this it isn't unlikely that a scum partner defends him for it. Your acknowledgment of this however makes it even more clear you find iguana town for more than just "it's unlikely scum would do this".
So care to elaborate on your quite strong town read on iguana?
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
And these are instances where they reacted to their scum partner, in a premeditated town-cred grab?
If you are asking if robz's scenario is an instance where scum reacted with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner for town cred, I think you are reading what robz said wrong. He is saying he as scum has reacted to similar posts from town!iguana by making a frustrated "this proves nothing" therefor he feels iguana is town and the people reacting to iguana frustratedly (cuzz, maybe myself?) are scummy. If so do you argree or disagree with robz thoughts.
If you read robz right I think you are asking if there are instances where scum reacted to their scum partner with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner in a premeditated town-cred grab. If so I think it is unlikely scum does that as premeditated town-cred grabbing plans day one primarily serve to just put light on scum day one in a current meta that has had slow day ones with last minute scrambles.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
All I do there is ask a question. I also prefer having posts to having no posts. Other than that there is nothing about iguana's post in particular that gets me excited.
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
And these are instances where they reacted to their scum partner, in a premeditated town-cred grab?
If you are asking if robz's scenario is an instance where scum reacted with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner for town cred, I think you are reading what robz said wrong. He is saying he as scum has reacted to similar posts from town!iguana by making a frustrated "this proves nothing" therefor he feels iguana is town and the people reacting to iguana frustratedly (cuzz, maybe myself?) are scummy. If so do you argree or disagree with robz thoughts.
If you read robz right I think you are asking if there are instances where scum reacted to their scum partner with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner in a premeditated town-cred grab. If so I think it is unlikely scum does that as premeditated town-cred grabbing plans day one primarily serve to just put light on scum day one in a current meta that has had slow day ones with last minute scrambles.
Well I asked why scum would/would not react to a scumpartner this way, since Robz said that he agreed with Galzria who was making that point. It may well be that Robz answered a question that I did not ask.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
All I do there is ask a question. I also prefer having posts to having no posts. Other than that there is nothing about iguana's post in particular that gets me excited.
But no posts is not the opposite of no posts of the kind iguana made so if there is nothing that excites you about iguana's post why press cuzz for saying he didn't want to incentivize iguana's post at all and why pose the question in a way that made it look like cuzz was saying he preferred no posts.
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I essentially agree with Galzria.
So you think scum would not have townread scum!iguana here. Why?
I think scum's more likely immediate reaction is a frustrated "this proves nothing!"
Why?
I feel like we've seen scum react that way, in cases where some kind of setup or PM or timing error thing has been exploited for town cred. I know that I myself have reacted that way as scum, though I can't recall when.
And these are instances where they reacted to their scum partner, in a premeditated town-cred grab?
If you are asking if robz's scenario is an instance where scum reacted with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner for town cred, I think you are reading what robz said wrong. He is saying he as scum has reacted to similar posts from town!iguana by making a frustrated "this proves nothing" therefor he feels iguana is town and the people reacting to iguana frustratedly (cuzz, maybe myself?) are scummy. If so do you argree or disagree with robz thoughts.
If you read robz right I think you are asking if there are instances where scum reacted to their scum partner with a frustrated this proves nothing to their scum partner in a premeditated town-cred grab. If so I think it is unlikely scum does that as premeditated town-cred grabbing plans day one primarily serve to just put light on scum day one in a current meta that has had slow day ones with last minute scrambles.
Well I asked why scum would/would not react to a scumpartner this way, since Robz said that he agreed with Galzria who was making that point. It may well be that Robz answered a question that I did not ask.
Oh you are right I was confused as well but yes robz didn't answer your question.
Galz said scum is unlikely to come out in support of scum!iguana therefor likely iguana is town.
Robz said he agreed and then gave an explanation for why by saying scum is unlikely to come out in support of town!iguana. Unless I am wrong about robz response but I don't think I am. Either way i think robz point is valid despite not being in direct support of galz's statement.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Since this has led to some other interactions, e.g. Robz's agreement with Galz, can we take a moment and talk about how utterly awful this reasoning is? You cannot value all other possibilities equally because Iguana is more likely to be town in the first place. Iguana is more likely than not town because there are more town than scum in this game, not because of any argle bargle about how his scum partners would respond to his post.
There is this weird bias where people seem to be subconsiously assuming that everyone starts off with a 50/50 chance of being town/scum and then updates these probabilities from that baseline based on reads, and it leads to a ton of terrible arguments.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
This is fine if you wanna use this as your reasoning, but don't commit crimes against conditional probability in the process.
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Yeah, mcmc got it. Sorry, I guess I read Galz wrong, or too quickly.
I think iguana is town, so "how would scum react to scum iguana" isn't really a scenario that matters to me.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
All I do there is ask a question. I also prefer having posts to having no posts. Other than that there is nothing about iguana's post in particular that gets me excited.
But no posts is not the opposite of no posts of the kind iguana made so if there is nothing that excites you about iguana's post why press cuzz for saying he didn't want to incentivize iguana's post at all and why pose the question in a way that made it look like cuzz was saying he preferred no posts.
I think you misread my original question. I never used the phrase "no posts of the kind iguana made".
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
All I do there is ask a question. I also prefer having posts to having no posts. Other than that there is nothing about iguana's post in particular that gets me excited.
But no posts is not the opposite of no posts of the kind iguana made so if there is nothing that excites you about iguana's post why press cuzz for saying he didn't want to incentivize iguana's post at all and why pose the question in a way that made it look like cuzz was saying he preferred no posts.
I think you misread my original question. I never used the phrase "no posts of the kind iguana made".
I believe I understood your question.
"So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?" does that not mean, So would you prefer no posts to (instead of) the kind of posts that iguana made?
And if I am correct my question stands. A) If nothing excites you about Iguana's post, why are pressing cuzz for not wanting to incentivize iguana's post.
And B) why did you try to make it sound like Cuzz would prefer no posts instead of the kind of posts iguana made when cuzz cleary just said he didn't want to incentivize that kind of post not any post at all.
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Since this has led to some other interactions, e.g. Robz's agreement with Galz, can we take a moment and talk about how utterly awful this reasoning is? You cannot value all other possibilities equally because Iguana is more likely to be town in the first place. Iguana is more likely than not town because there are more town than scum in this game, not because of any argle bargle about how his scum partners would respond to his post.
There is this weird bias where people seem to be subconsiously assuming that everyone starts off with a 50/50 chance of being town/scum and then updates these probabilities from that baseline based on reads, and it leads to a ton of terrible arguments.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
This is fine if you wanna use this as your reasoning, but don't commit crimes against conditional probability in the process.
Disagree completely. You're looking at it in a vacuum based purely on numbers. I'm looking at it through the lens of a social construct. Players have alignments, and players have actions/reactions. Those actions/reactions are influenced by their alignments, and absolutely tip the scales beyond a purely mathematical outcome.
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I should say, I don't disagree with your math (obviously) - I disagree with looking at things in a vacuum, instead of looking at/for interactions.
Although yes, everybody in the game starts at 50/50 to me (or neutral), in relation to one another, because every person is as likely as the next to be town/Scum.
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Disagree completely. You're looking at it in a vacuum based purely on numbers. I'm looking at it through the lens of a social construct. Players have alignments, and players have actions/reactions. Those actions/reactions are influenced by their alignments, and absolutely tip the scales beyond a purely mathematical outcome.
Let's look at what you actually said:
Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
To paraphrase: "There are four possibilities. I think one of the ones where iguana is scum is least likely. Therefore he is probably town" This is circular nonsense.
You're talking above about actions and reactions, but your original post said nothing at all about anyone's actual reaction to iguana's post. Like maybe I am missing something, but you were the one trying to frame your argument in terms of the relative likelihoods of 4 possible scenarios and I absolutely do not follow how the conclusion was supposed to follow from anything you said, except possibly as a pure tautology.
Can you break down the second quote above and explain it to me like I'm an idiot?
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Townie (in no particular order):
Mcmc
LaLight
SirClemens
Iguana
Scummy:
DatSwan
Cuzz
TWM
Neutral:
Faust
Robz
No read:
Everybody else (Space, Teproc, PPS)
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No read:
Everybody else (Space, Teproc, PPS)
Oh, wow, Vote: Teproc yeesh
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Disagree completely. You're looking at it in a vacuum based purely on numbers. I'm looking at it through the lens of a social construct. Players have alignments, and players have actions/reactions. Those actions/reactions are influenced by their alignments, and absolutely tip the scales beyond a purely mathematical outcome.
Let's look at what you actually said:
Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
To paraphrase: "There are four possibilities. I think one of the ones where iguana is scum is least likely. Therefore he is probably town" This is circular nonsense.
You're talking above about actions and reactions, but your original post said nothing at all about anyone's actual reaction to iguana's post. Like maybe I am missing something, but you were the one trying to frame your argument in terms of the relative likelihoods of 4 possible scenarios and I absolutely do not follow how the conclusion was supposed to follow from anything you said, except possibly as a pure tautology.
Can you break down the second quote above and explain it to me like I'm an idiot?
My post was a direct reaction to TWM in post #81, which was looking at direct reactions to Iguana's claim. In TWM's world, he didn't buy iguana being town, and found those finding him townie to be scummy.
I don't believe the argument for finding the reaction scummy is invalid, but I did believe that support of such an argument should make it significantly more likely that Iguana is town.
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I mostly just don't want to incentivize people to post cryptic nonsense right out of the gate alluding to thoughts relating to their PM they may or may not have had to score immediate towncred.
So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?
Actually curious here. You(faust) seem to be saying here that you very much approve of Iguana's post and that "no posts of the kind iguana made" is a bad thing. WHy do you think that is a bad thing? I dislike iguana's post, and don't say well it kickstarted interactions because I think there are better ways to do that. In a vacuum why do you like iguana's post specifically.
All I do there is ask a question. I also prefer having posts to having no posts. Other than that there is nothing about iguana's post in particular that gets me excited.
But no posts is not the opposite of no posts of the kind iguana made so if there is nothing that excites you about iguana's post why press cuzz for saying he didn't want to incentivize iguana's post at all and why pose the question in a way that made it look like cuzz was saying he preferred no posts.
I think you misread my original question. I never used the phrase "no posts of the kind iguana made".
I believe I understood your question.
"So would you prefer no posts to the kid of posts that iguana made?" does that not mean, So would you prefer no posts to (instead of) the kind of posts that iguana made?
And if I am correct my question stands. A) If nothing excites you about Iguana's post, why are pressing cuzz for not wanting to incentivize iguana's post.
And B) why did you try to make it sound like Cuzz would prefer no posts instead of the kind of posts iguana made when cuzz cleary just said he didn't want to incentivize that kind of post not any post at all.
A) Because pressing people is a good thing and I was interested to see how heartfelt Cuzz's frustration was.
B) I did not try to make it sound like anything. I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.
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That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.
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That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.
Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.
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I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.
Yes, just in case there is any ambiguity, I disliked iguana's post but I also dislike having no posts at all.
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I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.
Yes, just in case there is any ambiguity, I disliked iguana's post but I also dislike having no posts at all.
Which I suppose your latest vote illustrates.
Do you think Teproc is scummy for not posting or is it more of a prodding kind of vote?
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That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.
Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.
I mean... yes? No? SK or third faction aside, I get what you're saying, but also have mixed feelings on it. Obviously finding two people individually scummy doesn't mean you're going out and looking for or calling scum teams. And it's quite frequent to have more scum reads than scum in the game.
But again, social construct, you can't look at everything individually. Maybe you think iguana's post is scummy. And maybe (naturally, even) you think those arguing that it's townie are scummy as well. But I believe one directly impacts the other. Sure, you could leave it at that, but I think the logical next step is the one that I made ("Scum pushing town narrative on scum partner") - and that sort of thing just doesn't happen. At least, not D1, with no knowledge of what Town PR's are in the game (Tracker, Watcher, Cop, etc) that could catch you out.
I don't know. I get your point, but I think there's more to it than that.
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I asked a question which Cuzz answered and now everyone is clear on where he stands on the matter.
Yes, just in case there is any ambiguity, I disliked iguana's post but I also dislike having no posts at all.
Which I suppose your latest vote illustrates.
Do you think Teproc is scummy for not posting or is it more of a prodding kind of vote?
I think it is definitely anti-town and possibly scummy.
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I can't imagine that Teproc not posting yet is actually alignment indicative of him.
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I can't imagine that Teproc not posting yet is actually alignment indicative of him.
Any thoughts to share on those who have posted?
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I can't imagine that Teproc not posting yet is actually alignment indicative of him.
Any thoughts to share on those who have posted?
Not really. This seems like fairly typical mcmc and faust so far, though.
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crimes against conditional probability
I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
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Oh, silver isn't in this game :-( Otherwise, he'd've had things to say on conditional probabilities, too.
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The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.
I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.
Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
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Oops.. I'm going to publicly disagree with myself! Having re-read some setup stuff, there's a role that might give the bad guys daychat, in which case I'd guess they might be a little more haphazard about remembering to post as frequently in-thread. I haven't seen enough games with mafia daychat to have done any sort of posting frequency analysis.
These posts have been brought to you by a very Sleepy Space, who needs to go to bed but wants to play with all the people. G'night! :-)
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Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
Ugh.
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And apparently ugh to just about everything that came after it.
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mcmc is being super aggressive
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That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.
Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.
For someone who I am voting for. This is a good, if obvious yet very relevant, post.
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Had a crazy day at work and just got to a spot where I could catch up. Quite a lot of intense discussion for a D1.
Have no idea what to make of it. I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method. I took it as perfectly null and pretty much any response to it as null. Getting all invested in null is pretty useless to me.
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
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I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.
I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Is this a serious vote?
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Request prod on Teproc
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Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.
I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.
Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.
Robz seems towny.
MC seems towny and normal.
Faust is Faust.
PpS seems polar opposite of the only other game i have played with them (think they were skum)
It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.
Everyone else is whatever.
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Oh and i think cuz could be skum
vote: cuzz
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I've spent a good deal of time trying to figure out why I misread town!Cuzz in M100. Oh well.
There was a persistent "lynch the lurkers" mentality there, so I suppose the Teproc vote fits with that.
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Oh and i think cuz could be skum
vote: cuzz
I dislike this though. It doesn't really fit with this:
anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
and it looks like a wagon jump.
Vote: DatSwan
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I am willing to sheep this. vote: DatSwan
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Have no idea what to make of it.
Same.
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
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As a wise man once said:
I think the answer is just sheep Faust.
Vote: DatSwan
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So DatSwan said some stuff:
Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.
So we just clearly have incompatible definitions of lurking so probably not worth debating this.
I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.
I think this translates as: "This discussion is useless because all it means is that ii is confirmed scum if he's alive tomorrow."
??
I completely disagree with the premise anyway, but is that really what you're trying to say? Also what on earth does this have to do with an SK?
Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.
What are you referring to with "Galz mis reading me is skummy" and how is does "based on every game we have ever played together" support this? Can you flesh it out for those of us who have never played with both of you?
It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.
Huh?
Oh and i think cuz could be skum
vote: cuzz
Care to explain this? You just gave "reasons" for two other people being scummy, but then planted a vote on me with no justification whatsoever.
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Gal and Datswan are twinclaims right?
And I typically do a DAMA at some point in the game but had taken January off for Dryuary. So haven't done one. Meta joke.
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And I typically do a DAMA at some point in the game but had taken January off for Dryuary. So haven't done one. Meta joke.
Ah ok missed the typo. I am all on board for some DAMA this game.
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That is, if you find us scummy for reading iguanas post as townie, fine. But unless you're suggesting that it's scum pushing a town narrative on a scum partner after his opening D1 post, then to find us scummy should mean that Iguana gets moved more into the town column.
Ok, but I think you can find 2 people scummy while also thinking it is unlikely that they are scum partners.
So like, to illustrate this, DatSwan's long post is pretty scummy, and the quick sheeping of faust by LL and Clemens on DatSwan is also pretty scummy, but I don't specifically expect a DS/LL or DS/Clemens scumteam.
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Not feeling DatSwan
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Some reads so far:
Slight townread:
TWM
faust
Galz
Slight scumread:
DatSwan
LaLight
SirClemens
Null:
pps
Space
mcmc
iguana
Robz:
Robz
Literally has not posted yet:
Teproc
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Not feeling DatSwan
Like, you don't think DatSwan is scum, or you're not feeling any of the things DatSwan has said/done?
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And I typically do a DAMA at some point in the game but had taken January off for Dryuary. So haven't done one. Meta joke.
I'm in the middle of Dryruary currently...I commend you for picking a month with 31 days in it. Tomorrow is my halfway point, send thoughts and prayers.
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On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
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On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
Cool! Care to show your work for the rest of the class?
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On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
Dissagree vote: datswan
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On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
Cool! Care to show your work for the rest of the class?
Sure. We have a post discussing the scumminess of DatSwan without a vote, immediately followed by a post about how people voting for DatSwan are scummy sheepers. There you gave the reason why you didn't vote for DatSwan! Amazing stuff.
And then comes a pointless reads list that only restates the stuff you just said. But hey you look active at least!
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And I typically do a DAMA at some point in the game but had taken January off for Dryuary. So haven't done one. Meta joke.
I'm in the middle of Dryruary currently...I commend you for picking a month with 31 days in it. Tomorrow is my halfway point, send thoughts and prayers.
I decide to do a Dry-er-uary, because that seemed less intimidating.
But that's all over now.
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
Jesus, dude.
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Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
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I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.
I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole
Iguana did the early cryptic BS thingy and everyone decided to let that be a basis for picking sides on the "issue" and then trying to base reads of how people responded to it. Yes, I know that is how mafia works but I felt like this particular thingy was not worthwhile of doing the mafia thing around yet it has basically molded the D1 mindset and I'll have no part of it, except, you know, the part I'm having of it right now where I just call it null and void.
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Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
Oh wait you were serious about this? The idea that leaving yourself off a read list is indicative of a scum alignment is a pretty extraordinary claim and I will need some extraordinary evidence to believe it.
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
I'm a financially stable 25 year old with no kids. I'm about as addicted to alcohol as my cat is to putting his mouse toy in his water bowl. Would it kill him if he couldn't do it anymore, not a chance, is it the best thing for him, the water, or the toy, probably not, but oh boy does he enjoy it.
I'm actually doing it almost entirely for weight loss reasons. I'm relatively fit for a desk working Midwesterner but since next month I have to spend a week on a beach next to Mr. and Mrs. White House and I'm sick of them making me look like the swamp thing I figured dropping the booze calories would make the working out go a lot farther.
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I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.
I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole
Iguana did the early cryptic BS thingy and everyone decided to let that be a basis for picking sides on the "issue" and then trying to base reads of how people responded to it. Yes, I know that is how mafia works but I felt like this particular thingy was not worthwhile of doing the mafia thing around yet it has basically molded the D1 mindset and I'll have no part of it, except, you know, the part I'm having of it right now where I just call it null and void.
But, like, people did respond to it and pick sides and there was a lot of discussion about it. So you are deciding to completely ignore almost all of the content and interactions from D1 so far because you didn't like how it originated?
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I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.
I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole
Iguana did the early cryptic BS thingy and everyone decided to let that be a basis for picking sides on the "issue" and then trying to base reads of how people responded to it. Yes, I know that is how mafia works but I felt like this particular thingy was not worthwhile of doing the mafia thing around yet it has basically molded the D1 mindset and I'll have no part of it, except, you know, the part I'm having of it right now where I just call it null and void.
But, like, people did respond to it and pick sides and there was a lot of discussion about it. So you are deciding to completely ignore almost all of the content and interactions from D1 so far because you didn't like how it originated?
Yea this seems wierd from pps but not scummy. I mean why does mafia decide to say that. It could just be a weird opinion.
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Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
Oh wait you were serious about this? The idea that leaving yourself off a read list is indicative of a scum alignment is a pretty extraordinary claim and I will need some extraordinary evidence to believe it.
It's every bit as good as the iguana long division method for finding scum D1. As I recall everyone ever has put themselves on the list. To not do so is a willful act but not necessarily a conscious one. I'm placing my bets on this being a scumslip.
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I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method.
I know all of these words individually but I have no idea what this means on the whole
Iguana did the early cryptic BS thingy and everyone decided to let that be a basis for picking sides on the "issue" and then trying to base reads of how people responded to it. Yes, I know that is how mafia works but I felt like this particular thingy was not worthwhile of doing the mafia thing around yet it has basically molded the D1 mindset and I'll have no part of it, except, you know, the part I'm having of it right now where I just call it null and void.
But, like, people did respond to it and pick sides and there was a lot of discussion about it. So you are deciding to completely ignore almost all of the content and interactions from D1 so far because you didn't like how it originated?
That sums it up. There is nothing of value to be gained in my opinion. I mean, maybe tomorrow, but not today.
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Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
Oh wait you were serious about this? The idea that leaving yourself off a read list is indicative of a scum alignment is a pretty extraordinary claim and I will need some extraordinary evidence to believe it.
It's every bit as good as the iguana long division method for finding scum D1. As I recall everyone ever has put themselves on the list. To not do so is a willful act but not necessarily a conscious one. I'm placing my bets on this being a scumslip.
This seems insane to me and I am fairly certain that I have never done this. One does not need to spell out a read of onesself because one knows that one is town (or is lying) and one also knows that all other players expect one to present onesself as town. I find it more scummy when people go out of their way to say "hey all I'm town in case you didn't know," though I feel like town does it enough for it to be pretty much null.
Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.
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Again the pps argument for Galz being scum I think is bad. I don't think its scummy to not put yourself on your reads list (if I remember I think I put myself on more often as scum because I think about it). But I don't think its a scummy argument for pps to push.
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Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.
I've already admitted it was weak. It's no weaker than iguana math and I'm not ripping into anyone over that.
I am, however, entirely the wrong person to try to tell scumslips barely exist seeing as most glaring examples are my own.
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I've been drinking Miller DryLife since 2011.
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Some reads so far:
Slight townread:
TWM
faust
Galz
Slight scumread:
DatSwan
LaLight
SirClemens
Null:
pps
Space
mcmc
iguana
Robz:
Robz
Literally has not posted yet:
Teproc
Cuzz, you forgot yourself on this list. Are you scum? :P
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Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.
I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.
Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.
Robz seems towny.
MC seems towny and normal.
Faust is Faust.
PpS seems polar opposite of the only other game i have played with them (think they were skum)
It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.
Everyone else is whatever.
Swan, you forgot yourself on this list. Are you scum? :P
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Scumteam Cuzz/DatSwan/Galzria confirmed.
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Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.
I've already admitted it was weak. It's no weaker than iguana math and I'm not ripping into anyone over that.
I am, however, entirely the wrong person to try to tell scumslips barely exist seeing as most glaring examples are my own.
I guess you can use it to give you a read on Galz if you want, though I disagree with the argument. My indignation is more about calling it a “scumslip” which I guess means something much stronger to me than it does to you.
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PPS - I refer to myself often when looking at and presenting cases. More often than not I'm assuming some chance of me being scum in those points because they're often argued from "another players" perspective - example: "The lynch pool today should be one of {Galzria, Robz, PPS} because they pushed a town wagon D1, didn't participate in a scum lynch D2, and lynched town D3" - I know I'm town, but no other town player knows this, so it's worth including myself in their potential lynch pool.
I don't, however, put myself on my own personal reads lists unless I'm feeling facetious.
In both items above, neither is alignment indicative.
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Scumteam Cuzz/DatSwan/Galzria confirmed.
Aww damn. Were we that obvious?
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
nailed it!
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
I'm a financially stable 25 year old with no kids. I'm about as addicted to alcohol as my cat is to putting his mouse toy in his water bowl. Would it kill him if he couldn't do it anymore, not a chance, is it the best thing for him, the water, or the toy, probably not, but oh boy does he enjoy it.
I'm actually doing it almost entirely for weight loss reasons. I'm relatively fit for a desk working Midwesterner but since next month I have to spend a week on a beach next to Mr. and Mrs. White House and I'm sick of them making me look like the swamp thing I figured dropping the booze calories would make the working out go a lot farther.
Am I Mr. White House? Love you bro! You look great!
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So DatSwan said some stuff:
Teproc posting 0 times is not alignment telling at all. Stuff happens, he should be prodded but no one here can reasonably say he is lurking - As he just doesn’t do that.
So we just clearly have incompatible definitions of lurking so probably not worth debating this.
I hate the ii discussion because as we go to night 1 all it means is that he will be targeted if he is Town and not if he is skum. Suppose that speaks against potential SK.
I think this translates as: "This discussion is useless because all it means is that ii is confirmed scum if he's alive tomorrow."
??
I completely disagree with the premise anyway, but is that really what you're trying to say? Also what on earth does this have to do with an SK?
Galz mis reading me is skummy based on every game we have ever played together.
What are you referring to with "Galz mis reading me is skummy" and how is does "based on every game we have ever played together" support this? Can you flesh it out for those of us who have never played with both of you?
It’s February and still no dams posts from TWM so probz skum there.
Huh?
Oh and i think cuz could be skum
vote: cuzz
Care to explain this? You just gave "reasons" for two other people being scummy, but then planted a vote on me with no justification whatsoever.
1) No SK because why draw potential killing action to yourself. However, if you don't agree with my premise on being N1 target then the latter wont matter to you either.
2) Not delving games up. Go find them yourself (105,108, RMMRemix) I thnk were the most recent.
3) Dryuary is a joke
4) before I was just voting you to see how you reacted. now I am voting you because of how you reacted.
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lol...
So if you put yourself on your reads list as Town is that good for town points?
What about listing yourself under "skummy"? Is that more or less skummy than leaving yourself off?
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
pps thinks that it is a slight scum tell.
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
If this justifys a vote is another question.
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Again the pps argument for Galz being scum I think is bad. I don't think its scummy to not put yourself on your reads list (if I remember I think I put myself on more often as scum because I think about it). But I don't think its a scummy argument for pps to push.
This is actually a really good point. I mean it is a good point about something that ultimately doesn't like.... matter. But I would agree that I tend to see either self listing from skum, or sometimes from strong PRs if they are getting lynch-nervous
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Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
Why would anybody include themself on their own reads list? Barring edge cases they would just put themself under town, whether they are town or scum.
Of course, you put yourself as town. But not including yourself is psychologically indicative of deflecting attention from yourself. It's the lowest grade scumslip there is.
I disagree with this completely. I think it is far skummier to put yourself as town then it is to not put yourself on at all.
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.
This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.
This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
Oh yeah sorry, I guess I misunderstood.
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Which player thinks not putting yourself on a scum list is a scum tell? Because I want to vote for that player.
That would be pps.
This is either misconstruing my words or misunderstanding Robz' words. Clearly, when you put yourself in your reads list you would always put yourself in the town category. Hence, the argument for not bothering with it.
Oh yeah sorry, I guess I misunderstood.
No faust got it, robz meant "scum list" to mean reads list as you said, not that you would put your self in the scummy section of a reads list. So robz finds you scummy.
Also I disagree wholeheartedly that your vote on galz is at all of similar strength to people voting for people based on the iguana interactions. Your vote on galz is a super weak meta argument about a tiny potential scum slip that is super up to the person who's posting. I maybe agree its of similar streght to a vote for iguana for making the statement he made. But reading into what people said in reaction to the iguana statement and how others reacted to those statements and how the original statements were defended amidst multiple votes and small wagons forming...no way a vote for one of those people is the same as voting for someone who didn't include themselves in their own reads list.
In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
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Completely forgot about this. Will catch up shortly.
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Catching up.
I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.
I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
vote: iguana for even bringing up claiming immediately i'm so sick of insta claims and mass claims.
Classic town!mcmc. I wasn't wrong about mcmc in that last game with the whole roleblocking with O right ? Scumteam was... Robz, ash and someone else ? Not mcmc, definitely, so yeah.
His subsequent Cuzz vote is also classic town!mcmc. Voting for stuff that are kinda sorta scummy just to get things moving.
Actually vote: cuzz
Vote: mcmc
Obviously.
I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
The scummiest of the "oh iguana must be town" quick reactions.
I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
you would
Yes
I don't accept this argument. The iguana is town part, at least. And think he should claim if he thinks he should (looks like he isn't going to, which is fine), but find those giving town credit without actually hearing what he has to say/claim mildly to moderately suspicious.
A bold argument to make as scum, hence townie.
Galz later making the point that the least likely thing is scum supporting scum!iguana is soo scummy.
Good. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, which of these seems most likely:
Scum {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Scum {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Town Iguana
Town {any of us} supports Scum Iguana
Personally, in a void, I think option 2 is least likely in any given game. That means even if you value the others all equally, Iguana is more likely than not town.
Not to mention, you know, this isn't scum iguana.
Vote:Galz
A wise man.
also just remembered how much i despise this part of the game
unvote
Boo.
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Woah.
Took you long enough ! Not really, that was pretty fast actually.
I think Cuzz' reaction on ii claim was a little off. What does meta say about this?
Townie.
anyone claiming ii is town should be looked at as skummy. the only people that could possibly make that assumption at this point int he game are themselves and skum.
Aside from the usual, annoying claims that D1 sucks (when we all know it's the best part of mafia), I'm liking Swan a lot here.
Which of course means he gets an argument with faust.
I essentially agree with Galzria.
Boo. Also, null.
I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
I'm hoping this is some reptilian attempt at humour. Only Robz gets to claim IC that prematurely.
I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Your 4am is my 13.00
I don’t know, he just said couple of general statements and this is all.
I know you and faust live on the other side but I was suprised by the datswan and galz/cuzz activity.
Also doesn't robz just always do that now. He's literally said "Iguana is town and shouldn't claim" and "I agree with galz". What do you expect town!robz to have done/said?
Interesting white-knighting here ;)
well, I would expect not the bare words and statements, but at least a back up of why he agrees with Galz, why he thinks that ii is town, anything else, even RVS!
Are you really saying "I would expect robz to post thought out and backed-up ideas early day 1" because I just can't remember the last time he did that as either alignment.
He definitely does it as scum. See: his Survivor game (which definitely counts as scum even though he played it pro-town).
I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
Wanna actually be IC use your town cred to engage people and create even more discussions while accruing reads based on said discussions then if we get into a lul in game state you can slam some of those reads on us with a vote/case. you know pro-town things not just pro-iguana things.
mcmc continuing to be obv!town.
mcmc is being super aggressive
He's being town!mcmc. It's not that hard to spot, it's the thing he does where he's pro-town. Scum!mcmc is quieter on day 1.
Had a crazy day at work and just got to a spot where I could catch up. Quite a lot of intense discussion for a D1.
Have no idea what to make of it. I certainly don’t care for the iguana division method. I took it as perfectly null and pretty much any response to it as null. Getting all invested in null is pretty useless to me.
Galzria left himself off his reads list so Vote: Galzria
While I approve of the vote, I have never put myself on a reads list and am constantly mystified that other people do it.
I am willing to sheep this. vote: DatSwan
Is LL more sheepy as one faction or another ? Because he is pretty sheepy this game.
As a wise man once said:
I think the answer is just sheep Faust.
Vote: DatSwan
The actual winning strategy is to vote for whoever faust thinks is scum but is not pushing. Works regardless of faust's alignment !
On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
If this is still current, I'd like to know what was scummy about the series of posts in question, because I don't particularly see much there.
On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
Cool! Care to show your work for the rest of the class?
Sure. We have a post discussing the scumminess of DatSwan without a vote, immediately followed by a post about how people voting for DatSwan are scummy sheepers. There you gave the reason why you didn't vote for DatSwan! Amazing stuff.
And then comes a pointless reads list that only restates the stuff you just said. But hey you look active at least!
Oh, thanks. Eh, I think that's just Cuzz's style. When I was scum with e and Joseph, we lynched Cuzz day 1 with basically this case.
And... I'm caught up !
vote: Galz
Though the fact that the most controversial thing PPS has done is the reads list thing makes him an appealing lynch as well. Less than Galz though, still, especially because it's pretty surprising to me he never got a wagon going on him through all this.
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Dryuary - is that like a thing where you convince yourself that you're not an alcoholic so that you can go back to poisoning yourself for the rest of the year without feeling guilty?
People are strange.
Meh. It is nice to go without things sometimes. I have done the same with sugar, cars, social media, online mafia and other things. Good chance to recalibrate and see if why you are doing something is whether or not you actually want to or because it is an engrained habit.
Completely forgot about this. Will catch up shortly.
So would Teproc pretend to forget about a game and show up later as mafia? I don't see him as being the type to forget he is playing if he is mafia.
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Catching up.
I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.
Context? Bonus points if you are willing to point out where in the game in occurred.
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mcmc is being super aggressive
He's being town!mcmc. It's not that hard to spot, it's the thing he does where he's pro-town. Scum!mcmc is quieter on day 1.
I agree. And hesitantly think I agree with your points on Galz.
I'll join you. vote: Galz
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?
no not hard I guess, I got it. I just think that if you "don't think your vote on Galz is a good one" because it is "as good as any other" - I mean, it's not like you are forced to vote at this point.
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Catching up.
I believe that if I describe the thoughts that occured to me when I saw my role PM, it would help prove to you all that I am town. However, doing so would involve claiming.
Should I claim? Discuss.
Hm. Usually I'd give townpoints for this, but iguana has done this as scum in Lost so meh.
Context? Bonus points if you are willing to point out where in the game in occurred.
Lost mafia, the Poisoner claim, early day 1. I wrote this before iguana made it clear he wouldn't claim right away, so it didn't end up being that similar, but still: I (and most everyone) gave iguana townpoints there because it seemed like he was sharing his internal process of thinking about his PR, which is easier for town than scum. Turns out iguana can do it just fine as scum, so no townpoints for him this game.
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Would you expect those in that game to remember? I feel like I was an observer, but don't remember much at all.
Player list:
1. LaLight
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. 2.71828.....
5. Archetype
6. Teproc
7. Witherweaver
8. IDontPlayThisGame
9. Datswan
10. Eevee
11. Qvist
12. RoadRunner
13. faust
14. SpaceAnemone
15. Iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O
Run by: Robz, mcmc
The three people that took him at face value and assigned town points were all involved in the previous game.
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Cool, iguana is confirmed town, and Teproc.
Vote: PPS
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Cool, iguana is confirmed town
huh?
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also unvote
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Cool, iguana is confirmed town, and Teproc.
Vote: PPS
Why am I conf!town ?
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Would you expect those in that game to remember? I feel like I was an observer, but don't remember much at all.
Player list:
1. LaLight
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. 2.71828.....
5. Archetype
6. Teproc
7. Witherweaver
8. IDontPlayThisGame
9. Datswan
10. Eevee
11. Qvist
12. RoadRunner
13. faust
14. SpaceAnemone
15. Iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O
Run by: Robz, mcmc
The three people that took him at face value and assigned town points were all involved in the previous game.
It's far from a 1 to 1 comparison, so I don't expect everyone in that game to relate this to that.
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?
no not hard I guess, I got it. I just think that if you "don't think your vote on Galz is a good one" because it is "as good as any other" - I mean, it's not like you are forced to vote at this point.
Right, but voting is clearly the best way to get direct interaction. Voting in a direction no one is looking gets even more interaction. I could join the iguana morass but it bores me so I picked a different direction. Clearly it is working as intended. Might is get me mislynched? Maybe, but that is valuable in itself. It's D1 so, I'm not exactly invested in any big scheme nor should anyone be.
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Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
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I seem to be ill enough to have sent myself home from work and been almost-comatose for most of the afternoon/evening. This is about as close to DAMA as you'll get for a Space.
To chip into the Dryuary conversation, I had a sip of something containing alcohol back in about December, and it was still super-yucky. Was Veganuary a thing outside of the UK?
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Vote count 1.2
DatSwan (3): LaLight, SirClemens, mcmcsalot
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, faust
Galzria (2): Teproc, The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Galzria
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time.
mod notes
- i'm having a great dry all-the-time
- it's like the tove lo song
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Can someone summarize the case on Galz (I’m not counting the pps read list thing as a case)? I’ve been following pretty closely and still don’t really see it.
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Cool, iguana is confirmed town, and Teproc.
Vote: PPS
Why am I conf!town ?
It was semi-joking. But you seem like normal, helpful town Teproc.
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Can someone summarize the case on Galz (I’m not counting the pps read list thing as a case)? I’ve been following pretty closely and still don’t really see it.
I also don't see it.
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Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
Also not really sure of the case on Robz. Space, what is your reason for a Robz vote?
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Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
Also not really sure of the case on Robz. Space, what is your reason for a Robz vote?
I just don't feel he's been as engaged or on top of the various arguments as he would be if he was as in the dark as most of us are. I mean, I appear to be the only one voting for him, and my case was clearly stated as "gut" there, so I hope you're not expecting a great deal of reasoning :-)
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I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
Robz888 -- Yeah, I don't like his posts much. He supports Galz's awful logic, and then shrugs off being called on it, and doesn't do much else of content.
DatSwan -- Don't like how much he seems to be antagonizing faust, but he seems townie in hoe carelessly he's posting. I say carelessly because using language like "not to be a horrible person but.." is generally a sign of needing to spend a little longer working on tone and empathy and questioning your own motives and stuff.
faust -- Makes a lot of sense to me, which is not always the case with scum!faust, so he can be town for now.
SirClemens -- kinda null so far. Note even as talkative as me :-P
mcmcsalot -- Someone just psoted a case for town!mcmc, and I can't unsee it at the moment, so I acknowledge bias but think he can be town for now too.
Teproc -- He's making several comments about Iguana in Lost, but I feel like this situation is a bit different, and would involve rather more invention on Iguana's part, so I'm a bit suspicious of Teproc's motive here. Though it turns out he was the one posting about town mcmc, which would be kind of bolder whiteknighting if he's that scummy. Nullish, I guess?
pingpongsam -- Like I just said, he'll scumslip for us if we let him be for a while. Especially in a setup like this :-)
Galzria -- Baaad probability stuff. I agree interactions are good, but so are accurate priors. Makes him less good at probabilities, rather than more scummy. I don't think I find his text all that bad.
iguanaiguana -- probably town, but to be revisited later. People have already pointed out that he's painted a target on himself, so I hope his super-duper role can handle that.
Cuzz -- He's a bit antagonistic in his interactions, but he's asking a lot of decent questions. Townie side of null.
The_Wine_Merchant -- Surprisingly little here so far. Not sure I like the sheep vote. Null for now.
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace. I always do this, and I'm almost always town. Coincidence??
LaLight -- I'm having a hard time getting a read on him. A couple of things posting about his past town performances ring danger bells, but it's not like he'd have a super-low chance of doing that as town either. Nullish-scum maybe?
I'm happy leaving my vote on Robz for now, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in anything right now becuase this is D1, and anemones are not known for their strong reads...
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I could vote for Space
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I could vote for Space
This guy gets it.
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Can someone summarize the case on Galz (I’m not counting the pps read list thing as a case)? I’ve been following pretty closely and still don’t really see it.
I also don't see it.
There isn't one. Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
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I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
Robz888 -- Yeah, I don't like his posts much. He supports Galz's awful logic, and then shrugs off being called on it, and doesn't do much else of content.
DatSwan -- Don't like how much he seems to be antagonizing faust, but he seems townie in hoe carelessly he's posting. I say carelessly because using language like "not to be a horrible person but.." is generally a sign of needing to spend a little longer working on tone and empathy and questioning your own motives and stuff.
faust -- Makes a lot of sense to me, which is not always the case with scum!faust, so he can be town for now.
SirClemens -- kinda null so far. Note even as talkative as me :-P
mcmcsalot -- Someone just psoted a case for town!mcmc, and I can't unsee it at the moment, so I acknowledge bias but think he can be town for now too.
Teproc -- He's making several comments about Iguana in Lost, but I feel like this situation is a bit different, and would involve rather more invention on Iguana's part, so I'm a bit suspicious of Teproc's motive here. Though it turns out he was the one posting about town mcmc, which would be kind of bolder whiteknighting if he's that scummy. Nullish, I guess?
pingpongsam -- Like I just said, he'll scumslip for us if we let him be for a while. Especially in a setup like this :-)
Galzria -- Baaad probability stuff. I agree interactions are good, but so are accurate priors. Makes him less good at probabilities, rather than more scummy. I don't think I find his text all that bad.
iguanaiguana -- probably town, but to be revisited later. People have already pointed out that he's painted a target on himself, so I hope his super-duper role can handle that.
Cuzz -- He's a bit antagonistic in his interactions, but he's asking a lot of decent questions. Townie side of null.
The_Wine_Merchant -- Surprisingly little here so far. Not sure I like the sheep vote. Null for now.
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace. I always do this, and I'm almost always town. Coincidence??
LaLight -- I'm having a hard time getting a read on him. A couple of things posting about his past town performances ring danger bells, but it's not like he'd have a super-low chance of doing that as town either. Nullish-scum maybe?
I'm happy leaving my vote on Robz for now, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in anything right now becuase this is D1, and anemones are not known for their strong reads...
I'm particularly strong in probabilities, game theory etc. I am just able to evaluate both the pure math (which is wrong) and the social math.
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Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
Huh. Is that true? It might be true.
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Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
Huh. Is that true? It might be true.
I mean, I'll give you that my memory isn't always the greatest - but I cannot recall a game with Teproc where he hasn't scum read me for the majority of the game, and I've been town each time.
Mind you, that argument is irrelevant as a defense of my alignment here as past alignments have no bearings on current ones - it's more a note on Teproc's inability to read me.
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Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
Huh. Is that true? It might be true.
I mean, I'll give you that my memory isn't always the greatest - but I cannot recall a game with Teproc where he hasn't scum read me for the majority of the game, and I've been town each time.
Mind you, that argument is irrelevant as a defense of my alignment here as past alignments have no bearings on current ones - it's more a note on Teproc's inability to read me.
Idk man... you are pretty bad a probability... I think this means your must be skum :P
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DatSwan -- Don't like how much he seems to be antagonizing faust, but he seems townie in hoe carelessly he's posting. I say carelessly because using language like "not to be a horrible person but.." is generally a sign of needing to spend a little longer working on tone and empathy and questioning your own motives and stuff.
So leaving aside the part about how we have played several games together to this point so like... how do you not get that I just "type as I talk". That hasn't changed. But actually interesting - why would you have any opinion on my specifically antagonizing faust? I mean or anyone I guess - personally I think antagonizing good players is an excellent for of beating the bush.
Also interestingly you put Cuzz in this reads list and stated you did not like how he was being antagonizing. Why do I get a direction and Cuzz doesn't? Not really thinking too much into it just pointing it out... because I mean it isn't that much to go on. Let's say on a skum scale of 1-10 where:
1 = not including yourself on a reads list
and
10 = flipping skum
.... its like a...3.4?
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Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
Huh. Is that true? It might be true.
I mean, I'll give you that my memory isn't always the greatest - but I cannot recall a game with Teproc where he hasn't scum read me for the majority of the game, and I've been town each time.
Mind you, that argument is irrelevant as a defense of my alignment here as past alignments have no bearings on current ones - it's more a note on Teproc's inability to read me.
You are only slightly exagerrating: I didn't think you were scum in M105 (when I was IC). Well I had some paranoia about you, but I never tunneled you like I did in Lost and whicheve game it was we lost terribly.
Still, I will admit to not having a great track record at reading you in general.
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Teproc has a 100% scum read record on me in every game we've played together, and a 0% accuracy rate on my being scum. He has no clue what he's looking for, and his case here is more of the same from him.
Huh. Is that true? It might be true.
I mean, I'll give you that my memory isn't always the greatest - but I cannot recall a game with Teproc where he hasn't scum read me for the majority of the game, and I've been town each time.
Mind you, that argument is irrelevant as a defense of my alignment here as past alignments have no bearings on current ones - it's more a note on Teproc's inability to read me.
skumish to feel the need to point this out.
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
The scummiest of the "oh iguana must be town" quick reactions.
That is actually a good point. I think I can vote:Galzria
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Oops. Vote: Galzria
That the only defense he brings up is "oh this guy can't read me anyway" doesn't help.
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I think I want to vote: Space
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I was waiting another day to give him a chance to say anything useful because of time zones but it’s definitely time to vote: SirClemens at this point.
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Yay. Really good wagons going for some decent reasons.
Guess it is time to totally derail with a lurker vote when a prod could do the same thing just as nicely.
Prod: sir Clemens
Vote: cuzz
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Yay. Really good wagons going for some decent reasons.
Guess it is time to totally derail with a lurker vote when a prod could do the same thing just as nicely.
Prod: sir Clemens
Vote: cuzz
Yep total derailing because we’re real close to deadline and everything. /s
Also I’m not sure what these “really good wagons” are of which you speak, as I’ve already mentioned that I don’t really get any of them. I do not feel obligated to vote from among the people who happen to have 2 or more votes if they are not my top scumreads when we’re 80 hours from the deadline.
You like prods, I like votes. As I also already mentioned, I thought that the SirClemens quicksheeping of faust’s on DatSwan was scummy considering it’s roughly the only thing he has done in the whole game.
There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
The scummiest of the "oh iguana must be town" quick reactions.
That is actually a good point. I think I can vote:Galzria
I don't think it was particularly scummy. It was identical to my reaction.
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
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DatSwan -- Don't like how much he seems to be antagonizing faust, but he seems townie in hoe carelessly he's posting. I say carelessly because using language like "not to be a horrible person but.." is generally a sign of needing to spend a little longer working on tone and empathy and questioning your own motives and stuff.
So leaving aside the part about how we have played several games together to this point so like... how do you not get that I just "type as I talk". That hasn't changed. But actually interesting - why would you have any opinion on my specifically antagonizing faust? I mean or anyone I guess - personally I think antagonizing good players is an excellent for of beating the bush.
Also interestingly you put Cuzz in this reads list and stated you did not like how he was being antagonizing. Why do I get a direction and Cuzz doesn't? Not really thinking too much into it just pointing it out... because I mean it isn't that much to go on. Let's say on a skum scale of 1-10 where:
1 = not including yourself on a reads list
and
10 = flipping skum
.... its like a...3.4?
I just don't think that aggression should have a place in a game like this. ATE gets criticised when people use it to elicit pity. I think it should be equally criticised when it appears in the more "macho" antagonistic sense. Plus, there's no ban on being pathetic, but we have all pledged to be civil :-)
As for the rest.. you're commenting in particular on the fact that I mentioned that you were antagonizing faust, but didn't narrow down a list of whom Cuzz was directing his behaviour towards. It's possible I'm just biased towards faust because I've met him in person, and he couldn't be nicer IRL.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
What???? How come??? Why me town all sudden?
Why Cuzz the scummiest huh?????????????
Just FYI this is me rereading and doing what you're about to ask me to do later.
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I'm close enough to IC now that I'm gunna lurk and silently judge yall for a while.
Wanna actually be IC use your town cred to engage people and create even more discussions while accruing reads based on said discussions then if we get into a lul in game state you can slam some of those reads on us with a vote/case. you know pro-town things not just pro-iguana things.
I'll do my best! Super limited resources. See above tho.
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People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead.
Are you sceptical that scumslips exist, or just frustrated that active players who make lots of posts are more likely to say something that someone can twist as a scumslip, whether or not that reading on their words is valid? If the former, there really are some good historical examples that can be cited in-thread...
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Townie (in no particular order):
Mcmc
LaLight
SirClemens
Iguana
Scummy:
DatSwan
Cuzz
TWM
Neutral:
Faust
Robz
No read:
Everybody else (Space, Teproc, PPS)
Wotwotwot? StillFeelThisWay?? ?? ?? (McMac AsKed MeTo)
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As for the rest.. you're commenting in particular on the fact that I mentioned that you were antagonizing faust, but didn't narrow down a list of whom Cuzz was directing his behaviour towards. It's possible I'm just biased towards faust because I've met him in person, and he couldn't be nicer IRL.
I am also very nice IRL, I promise! There’s just something about this basically being “Arguing on the Internet: The Game” that brings out a kind of combative side of me.
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People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead.
Are you sceptical that scumslips exist, or just frustrated that active players who make lots of posts are more likely to say something that someone can twist as a scumslip, whether or not that reading on their words is valid? If the former, there really are some good historical examples that can be cited in-thread...
Both kinda. I get that they have happened but I’ve honestly never been in a game with a real one, and have had many many more instances of being accused of committing one when I was town (even by other town)
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. john wayne gacy jr. will not be the name of any roles
This line from the setup means no possibility of Serial Killer In This Game
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As a final conclusion, In hereby do declare everything PPS has said to be null and void and have no comment on it other than to say I certainly do not appreciate his scumslip searching long division method as an approach to D1.
Vote: Lalight
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lynching lurkers. You just made it sound like lurking people are per se more likely scum, which I don't think is true. I also don't think it is harder for scum to be active than for town.
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I accept iguana as town, and don't think he should claim more.
The scummiest of the "oh iguana must be town" quick reactions.
That is actually a good point. I think I can vote:Galzria
I don't think it was particularly scummy. It was identical to my reaction.
Well maybe yours is scummy too!
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lynching lurkers. You just made it sound like lurking people are per se more likely scum, which I don't think is true. I also don't think it is harder for scum to be active than for town.
Which lurker would you lynch today?
I do think it actually is harder to be active as scum, at least in my experience. I am dreading my first scum game after my recent mafia hiatus because I get paralyzed with the fear of drawing attention to myself.
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lynching lurkers. You just made it sound like lurking people are per se more likely scum, which I don't think is true. I also don't think it is harder for scum to be active than for town.
Which lurker would you lynch today?
I do think it actually is harder to be active as scum, at least in my experience. I am dreading my first scum game after my recent mafia hiatus because I get paralyzed with the fear of drawing attention to myself.
I don't know. Clemens? Maybe PPS. Who else is lurking? You put LaLight there... he actually has been non-present so far, but I'm good at reading him and would rather not lynch him yet.
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faust is always good for a pps lynch.
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I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
What???? How come??? Why me town all sudden?
Why Cuzz the scummiest huh?????????????
Just FYI this is me rereading and doing what you're about to ask me to do later.
I decided I was forgetting my golden scum rule which is that scum doesn't do thing unnecessarily to draw attention and even though it was slight I tilt the whole post slughtly townie. At the time looking at the people who reacted I thought cuzz was a little lynch pushy toward you which would indicate a scum motivation but since then his posts read more townie to me.
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I could definitely lynch pps or space.
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How could you possibly forget your own golden lynch rule?
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I could definitely lynch pps or space.
Why space? Her post here
I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
snip
actually gave me a townread just due to the thoroughness and effort put into it. It wasn't just a scummy/townie list that anyone can throw together regardless of alignment, but seems to show actual thought being put into formulating reads with specific examples cited.
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How could you possibly forget your own golden lynch rule?
what is that?
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How could you possibly forget your own golden lynch rule?
what is that?
He is referring to
I decided I was forgetting my golden scum rule which is that scum doesn't do thing unnecessarily to draw attention
And to answer I was blinded by my anger that I would be I would be in a game that was yet again opened with a post about potentially claiming.
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Haha okay then sorry for angerwolfing you sir
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I could definitely lynch pps or space.
Why space? Her post here
I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
snip
actually gave me a townread just due to the thoroughness and effort put into it. It wasn't just a scummy/townie list that anyone can throw together regardless of alignment, but seems to show actual thought being put into formulating reads with specific examples cited.
There are about 10 pages of content, a reread of everyone isn't much effort at all. At the end space comes to a wopping null conclusion on eight people, a nullish town on two, a town on one and a scum on one. Other than that it feels like they have been making quite a few comments about "moving the conversation here or not wanting to engage in conversation about that".
Space normally discusses different things then "typical" mafia players in an effort to contribute early game but I don;t feel like they have felt the need to justify why they were posting about different things in the past. Feels like scum going "hmm don't want to come out of left field here let me address this before I contribute."
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I actually think this is Space trying to be helpful, whereas I'd expect scum!Space to hide in their comfort zone (ie not reads).
I guess I haven't answered Robz re: Galz. It has a lot to do with his reaction to iguana's claim feeling particularly fake (and I do think it's always tough for scum to react claims like this, especially early on)... then Galz's play in general doesn't feel particularly townie to me.
@iguana: Why LL ?
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I'm a supporter of lynching lurkers early game because if you happened to wagon a scum lurker, you're more likely to get the lynch through since they don't show up to defend themselves. Whereas if you happen to wagon an active scum, they are more likely to wriggle out of it. It's not that lurkers are more likely to be scum (though this certainly used to be the case a loooong time ago), just that lurkers who are scum are more likely to actually go down than active players who are scum.
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At first I wanted to say that I now have a new job and much less time to be as active as I was times before. At second, I struggle through D1: eceryone looks scummy and townie at the same time. Thirdly I actually had a full-of-action St. Valentine’s day today. Off to finish my whiskey, don’t lynch me
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Will post a read list soon, still need to reread 5 players.
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At first I wanted to say that I now have a new job and much less time to be as active as I was times before. At second, I struggle through D1: eceryone looks scummy and townie at the same time. Thirdly I actually had a full-of-action St. Valentine’s day today. Off to finish my whiskey, don’t lynch me
This has been a thirsty thread!
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From town to scum:
mcmcsalot:
- Very engaged and very towny.
SpaceAnemone:
- Tries and succeeds to be towny in their few posts.
DatSwan:
- Apart from his weird posts he seems towny, though I disagree with his iguanaiguana stance.
faust:
- A few towny posts mixed with a few "nonsense" posts. Slight townread.
Robz888:
- Posts seem slightly townish
LaLight:
- Seems kinda towny
The_Wine_Merchant:
- Nullread.
Teproc:
- He has exactly 1 good post. Null.
iguanaiguana:
- I am a fan of his opening and subsequent not claiming, but there is not much afterwards.
Cuzz:
- Has a lot of posts, but seems too defensive. Slight scumread.
pingpongsam:
- Most of his posts are about read lists. He could mean no harm, but it gives me a slight scumread on him.
Galzria:
- Townreads me for no reason, indicating he is aware of my alignment.
- While I don’t really see the case against him, I dislike his defense.
- Scumread for now.
Vote: Galzria
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I actually think this is Space trying to be helpful, whereas I'd expect scum!Space to hide in their comfort zone (ie not reads).
I guess I haven't answered Robz re: Galz. It has a lot to do with his reaction to iguana's claim feeling particularly fake (and I do think it's always tough for scum to react claims like this, especially early on)... then Galz's play in general doesn't feel particularly townie to me.
@iguana: Why LL ?
I think he's scum
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Thirdly I actually had a full-of-action St. Valentine’s day today.
Many congrats!
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Galzria is too popular a vote to be scum I think. WIFOM? Sure. But scum would love to lynch him if town and I think his partners would be happy to hop on his wagon and expect that he could defend himself if he's scum.
Either way I bet more scum have voted Galzria than anyone else
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I also really don't think Galz is scummy. Scum Galz is incredibly eloquent, his posts balanced and seemingly informative but conveying nothing that would put him in trouble. This has pretty much been the opposite of that.
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@iguana: Galz is not a popular vote, quite the contrary. Bunch of people casually think he's scummy, not many are voting. That's one of the things that's scummy about him !
And yes, I got that you think LL is scummy. I was inquiring as to why you thought that, as I'm sure you know. Well ?
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Mcmc Vote count 1.2.1
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, faust, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, Teproc, The_Wine_Merchant, faust, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
DatSwan (2): LaLight, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Galzria
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, Teproc, faust, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (1): Galzria
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time.
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@iguana: Galz is not a popular vote, quite the contrary. Bunch of people casually think he's scummy, not many are voting. That's one of the things that's scummy about him !
And yes, I got that you think LL is scummy. I was inquiring as to why you thought that, as I'm sure you know. Well ?
So you are actually wrong, Galz is a very popular vote, if Cuzz didn't vote for sir clemons on the basis of pure lurking thus provoking TWM to vote for Cuzz galz would be at L-2 currently.
Slight Scum reads on Teproc and Sir Clemons
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I thought Galz only had 3 votes, but still. Catching up on the game, it felt strange to me that Galz (or anyone for that matter) hadn't gotten a real wagon. I guess it's a real wagon now.
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People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead.
Are you sceptical that scumslips exist, or just frustrated that active players who make lots of posts are more likely to say something that someone can twist as a scumslip, whether or not that reading on their words is valid? If the former, there really are some good historical examples that can be cited in-thread...
Both kinda. I get that they have happened but I’ve honestly never been in a game with a real one, and have had many many more instances of being accused of committing one when I was town (even by other town)
Here's the key post from the time PPS and I were scum together (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16181.msg640746#msg640746) where he left me part-way-through by scumslipping over the setup... it has made me less afraid of him than I maybe should be ever since, because I know what confuses him :-)
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Lull Vote: galz
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[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
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[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
The wagons are probably popular for a reason.
-
[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
The wagons are probably popular for a reason.
Whats that?
-
[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
Not a bad point.
[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
The wagons are probably popular for a reason.
A very bad point.
vote: SirClemens
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[reads list]
Aka "I want to be able to jump on all the popular wagons"
Vote: SirClemens
The wagons are probably popular for a reason.
Whats that?
Galzria:
vote: Galz
vote: Galz
Vote: Galzria
Cuzz:
Vote: Cuzz
vote: cuzz
vote: Cuzz
vote: cuzz
Vote: Cuzz
Vote: cuzz
Just click on the link to see their respective opinion why they voted.
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Believe it or not SirClemons I wanted to know what reason it was you thought the wagons were popular wagons, not a link to the posts where people voted for them.
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Believe it or not SirClemons I wanted to know what reason it was you thought the wagons were popular wagons, not a link to the posts where people voted for them.
They are popular because many people were on them. I thought your question was why I thought they were popular for a reason, not what I understand under a popular wagon.
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@iguana: Galz is not a popular vote, quite the contrary. Bunch of people casually think he's scummy, not many are voting. That's one of the things that's scummy about him !
And yes, I got that you think LL is scummy. I was inquiring as to why you thought that, as I'm sure you know. Well ?
Meh
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I don't want to vote for Sir Clemens (if you're interested)
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
If you are up for joining any wagon to get a lunch through then why are you:
A. Voting for Teproc, who is not currently a viable wagon?
B. Stating without justification that you won’t vote for Sir Clemens, who is currently a viable wagon?
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
If you are up for joining any wagon to get a lunch through then why are you:
A. Voting for Teproc, who is not currently a viable wagon?
B. Stating without justification that you won’t vote for Sir Clemens, who is currently a viable wagon?
I want to vote for Teproc, I don't want to vote for SirClemens. but i will join if needed. we're not too short on time.
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Why specifically don’t you want to vote for Clemens?
-
Why specifically don’t you want to vote for Clemens?
I hate lynching new playersand i don't think he is any scummy for the reads list.
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Why specifically don’t you want to vote for Clemens?
I hate lynching new playersand i don't think he is any scummy for the reads list.
K, what’s your case on Teproc then?
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Is there a Space case?
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Is there a Space case?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0JBFlof90
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Is there a Space case?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0JBFlof90
🔥🔥🔥
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Vote: clemens
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Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
-
DatSwan and Cuzz are town.
-
Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
-
Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
Just clarifying - the defense of not wanting to lynch new players?
-
Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
Just clarifying - the defense of not wanting to lynch new players?
More the way he was like I don't want to lynch clemwntine but I would lynch anyone
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can we get a real vote count at some point?
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Pretty meh on the clement votes. Classic "he is scummy for not saying anything" followed by "he said something, it is scummy!"
Unfortunately I see town doing that far too often out of over reading perceived scum traits.
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Pretty meh on the clement votes. Classic "he is scummy for not saying anything" followed by "he said something, it is scummy!"
Unfortunately I see town doing that far too often out of over reading perceived scum traits.
Yes, overreading perceived scum traits is what scummhunting is. Please do inform us when you figure out a better way.
SirClemens wasn't scummy for being a lurker (that's always been a ridiculous startegy on day 1, unless everyone active is townie), but the deflection onto other people for reasons to vote is scummy, yes. You can argue it's too scummy to be scum, but Clemens is a new player, so you know, OCcam's Razor.
-
Will catch up either tonight after work or tomorrow.
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Space Count
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (4): Cuzz, faust, Teproc, iguanaiguana
Teproc (1): LaLight
Not Voting (2): Robz888, Galzria
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Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
Just clarifying - the defense of not wanting to lynch new players?
If so, then that's actually quite a LL thing to do normally, so not strongly alignment indicative.
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vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Is there a Space case?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO0JBFlof90
How have I never heard of this before?
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Huh. My apologies, but that's it for useful posting from me today. I need to be in bed asleep by 5 minutes ago at the latest :-/
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Would lynch today: SirClemens, LL, Datswan, Robz, pps, maybe Space
Would not lynch today: mcmc, TWM, ii, Galz, faust, Teproc
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I got to do an 8 hour Blood Borne Pathogen, first-aid and CPR course today. Just now at a point to reread.
I am really a fan of this observation:
vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
If you are up for joining any wagon to get a lunch through then why are you:
A. Voting for Teproc, who is not currently a viable wagon?
B. Stating without justification that you won’t vote for Sir Clemens, who is currently a viable wagon?
-
I got to do an 8 hour Blood Borne Pathogen, first-aid and CPR course today. Just now at a point to reread.
I am really a fan of this observation:
vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
If you are up for joining any wagon to get a lunch through then why are you:
A. Voting for Teproc, who is not currently a viable wagon?
B. Stating without justification that you won’t vote for Sir Clemens, who is currently a viable wagon?
Someone (Teproc I think) made a comment about something being too scummy to be scum which has me a little unsure about what to think about LL here because this series of posts was pretty damn scummy.
-
I got to do an 8 hour Blood Borne Pathogen, first-aid and CPR course today. Just now at a point to reread.
I am really a fan of this observation:
vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
If you are up for joining any wagon to get a lunch through then why are you:
A. Voting for Teproc, who is not currently a viable wagon?
B. Stating without justification that you won’t vote for Sir Clemens, who is currently a viable wagon?
Someone (Teproc I think) made a comment about something being too scummy to be scum which has me a little unsure about what to think about LL here because this series of posts was pretty damn scummy.
Yeah!
Vote: Lalight
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I like this APPS and Cuss getting chummy thing. Prolly town alliance?
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PPS and Cuzz°
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I automatically tune out whenever someone brings up Occam and his damn razor in mafia games.
-
https://youtu.be/adKEqin5SoI?t=54s (https://youtu.be/adKEqin5SoI?t=54s)
some graphic imagery later in the song
do i care if i survive this? bury the dead where they're found
in the veil of great surprises, i wonder, did you love me at all?
Vote count 1.3
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant
SirClemens (3): Cuzz, faust, Teproc
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Teproc (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (1): Galzria
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time.
mod notes
- some mistakage from the last vc fixed
-
K.
vote: SirClemens
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I automatically tune out whenever someone brings up Occam and his damn razor in mafia games.
You're lucky that I only do it when I'm scum.
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Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
Because LaLight is open about it, and Clemens tries to conceal it in reads.
-
but the deflection onto other people for reasons to vote is scummy, yes. You can argue it's too scummy to be scum, but Clemens is a new player, so you know, OCcam's Razor.
Where did I did that? The reason for my vote is in my reads list. I posted the bunch of quotes when I thought mcmc was asking about the reasoning of the other players on the Galz and Cuzz Wagons.
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but the deflection onto other people for reasons to vote is scummy, yes. You can argue it's too scummy to be scum, but Clemens is a new player, so you know, OCcam's Razor.
Where did I do that? The reason for my vote is in my reads list. I posted the bunch of quotes when I thought mcmc was asking about the reasoning of the other players on the Galz and Cuzz Wagons.
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My Wagon makes me suspicious of Cuzz and Galzria.
I think there is exactly 1 scum in {Cuzz, faust, Teproc}, but all have good reasons for voting for me.
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My Wagon makes me suspicious of Cuzz and Galzria.
I think there is exactly 1 scum in {Cuzz, faust, Teproc}, but all have good reasons for voting for me.
is this a typo or do you mean that you also think there are 2 skum in [Cuzz, faust, Teproc, and Galz].
FWIW I know I am voting SC rn, but I also think there is a skum in the [Cuzz, faust, Teproc] pool. If anyone wants to make one of those happen lmk
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My Wagon makes me suspicious of Cuzz and Galzria.
I think there is exactly 1 scum in {Cuzz, faust, Teproc}, but all have good reasons for voting for me.
is this a typo or do you mean that you also think there are 2 skum in [Cuzz, faust, Teproc, and Galz].
FWIW I know I am voting SC rn, but I also think there is a skum in the [Cuzz, faust, Teproc] pool. If anyone wants to make one of those happen lmk
So you think that scum is bussing right now?
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
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My Wagon makes me suspicious of Cuzz and Galzria.
I think there is exactly 1 scum in {Cuzz, faust, Teproc}, but all have good reasons for voting for me.
is this a typo or do you mean that you also think there are 2 skum in [Cuzz, faust, Teproc, and Galz].
FWIW I know I am voting SC rn, but I also think there is a skum in the [Cuzz, faust, Teproc] pool. If anyone wants to make one of those happen lmk
So you think that scum is bussing right now?
yes.
But tbf I assume skum to buss every D1. it is an extremely effective tactic for the surviving end of game skum to use.
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
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And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
-
And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
Well, when the sun rises changes every day and also depending on your location, but I've yet to hear someone call that arbitrary.
-
And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
Well, when the sun rises changes every day and also depending on your location, but I've yet to hear someone call that arbitrary.
I mean we are talking nonsense at this point.. but I feel the need to point out that where/when the sun rises would be unarguable to all parties sitting on the same blanket (so to speak). As we are all on the same blanket, it is arbitrary to assume when the wagon starts because it (as you have stated) is arbitrary. but none of us could pass a sandwich and say "hey look at the sun rising over there" and have another argue with it.
-
And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
Well, when the sun rises changes every day and also depending on your location, but I've yet to hear someone call that arbitrary.
I mean we are talking nonsense at this point.. but I feel the need to point out that where/when the sun rises would be unarguable to all parties sitting on the same blanket (so to speak). As we are all on the same blanket, it is arbitrary to assume when the wagon starts because it (as you have stated) is arbitrary. but none of us could pass a sandwich and say "hey look at the sun rising over there" and have another argue with it.
unless someone is blind.
-
And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
Well, when the sun rises changes every day and also depending on your location, but I've yet to hear someone call that arbitrary.
I mean we are talking nonsense at this point.. but I feel the need to point out that where/when the sun rises would be unarguable to all parties sitting on the same blanket (so to speak). As we are all on the same blanket, it is arbitrary to assume when the wagon starts because it (as you have stated) is arbitrary. but none of us could pass a sandwich and say "hey look at the sun rising over there" and have another argue with it.
unless someone is blind.
or if this metaphor takes place on Tatooine
-
And Clemens, why is DatSwan missing from your list of potential scums?
I think scum helped getting the wagon started, and he voted after it was established.
I don't know why you think that, and the line you draw between 'getting a wagon started' and 'wagon is established' is highly arbitrary.
this is a fair enough opinion. faust - in your opinion if it takes 7 to lynch where is the "before/after" line drawn? your words make it seem as if it should NOT be arbitrary, so I assume you have a non-arbitrary approach?
There is no single number that works all the time. It's more the dynamics of how the wagon formed that need to be investigated. It also matters how big the alternative wagons are at the time.
so if it changes every game, then how would anyone ever deciding when a wagon "starts" be anything but arbitrary?
Well, when the sun rises changes every day and also depending on your location, but I've yet to hear someone call that arbitrary.
I mean we are talking nonsense at this point.. but I feel the need to point out that where/when the sun rises would be unarguable to all parties sitting on the same blanket (so to speak). As we are all on the same blanket, it is arbitrary to assume when the wagon starts because it (as you have stated) is arbitrary. but none of us could pass a sandwich and say "hey look at the sun rising over there" and have another argue with it.
unless someone is blind.
So in this analogy everyone except me is blind :P
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Wagon is started after the third vote,
Next.
-
This seems like a severely useless conversation.
-
Indeed. Deadline is tomorrow, people. Is someone not voting ?
Oh, exactly one person is not voting. Let's go back to vote: Galz then.
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Mcmc Vote count 1.2.1
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, faust, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, Teproc, The_Wine_Merchant, faust, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
DatSwan (2): LaLight, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Galzria
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, Teproc, faust, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (1): Galzria
with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends saturday, february 17th at 17:00 forum time.
Doing another one of my own vote counts because I like to see how people have moved. (Underlined strike-through is a second vote moved)
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, Teproc, faust, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant, Teproc
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz, faust, Teproc, iguanaiguana, DatSwan
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana, iguanaiguana
Teproc (0): LaLight
not voting (1): Galzria
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant, Teproc
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (3): Cuzz, faust, DatSwan
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Teproc (1): LaLight
not voting (1): Galzria
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
That is an odd sentiment. DatSwan had a bigger wagon today than PPS ever did IIRC, so it seems natural to go there.
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In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
Is there more of a case on PPS than this? Because this seems weak compared to other scummy things that happened.
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Really would prefer to lynch PPS or Space over either of the current wagons.
The beginnings of my thoughts on pps. Terrible reason to vote Galz.
Again the pps argument for Galz being scum I think is bad. I don't think its scummy to not put yourself on your reads list (if I remember I think I put myself on more often as scum because I think about it). But I don't think its a scummy argument for pps to push.
Here he expains that its a weak vote and tries to compare it to the votes based around actions and reactions to iguana's claimy post.
Scumslips are barely a thing anyway and this is a seriously weak one at that.
I've already admitted it was weak. It's no weaker than iguana math and I'm not ripping into anyone over that.
I am, however, entirely the wrong person to try to tell scumslips barely exist seeing as most glaring examples are my own.
My case which centers around the fact that PPS felt scummy as he defended his vote in a very "jeez guys its a silly weak vote don't give me so much heat I'm just doing what everyone else is doing" kinda way.
Also I disagree wholeheartedly that your(PPS) vote on galz is at all of similar strength to people voting for people based on the iguana interactions. Your vote on galz is a super weak meta argument about a tiny potential scum slip that is super up to the person who's posting. I maybe agree its of similar streght to a vote for iguana for making the statement he made. But reading into what people said in reaction to the iguana statement and how others reacted to those statements and how the original statements were defended amidst multiple votes and small wagons forming...no way a vote for one of those people is the same as voting for someone who didn't include themselves in their own reads list.
In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
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In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
Is there more of a case on PPS than this? Because this seems weak compared to other scummy things that happened.
Which are? I'm reviewing the clemons stuff now, and the galz stuff. Its two wagons of three people that you and teproc have bounced between.
Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
That is an odd sentiment. DatSwan had a bigger wagon today than PPS ever did IIRC, so it seems natural to go there.
I'll have to check when datswan had a wagon because I haven't seen it. Me and Lalight were voting him at some point but I need to track the current clem and galz voters votes next.
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
Well it was a least partially based on the fact that I thought you were voting for DatSwan!
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Galz voters:
PPS, for a scumslip
Teproc, for galz suggesting the least likely thing was scum defending scum!iguana.
TWM, sheeps teproc
Faust, because galz's immediate iguana is town was the scummiest and he didn't defend the wagon on himself well/at all
SirClem, says glaz townreads him for no reason indicating he knows his alignemnt, acknowledges not getting the galz case but sheeps the fact that he had no defense
Those are all the galz votes and they are garbage, if galz is scum the people not voting for which would likely include partners are Robz/Space/Lalight/mcmc and the movers Teproc/faust. Doubt Faust is a bussing partner. Doubt this is how a Galz/Robz scumteam plays day one. Could see scum in Space/Lalight. Especially Space due to this:
Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
followed by
I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
Robz888 -- Yeah, I don't like his posts much. He supports Galz's awful logic, and then shrugs off being called on it, and doesn't do much else of content.
snip
pingpongsam -- Like I just said, he'll scumslip for us if we let him be for a while. Especially in a setup like this :-)
Galzria -- Baaad probability stuff. I agree interactions are good, but so are accurate priors. Makes him less good at probabilities, rather than more scummy. I don't think I find his text all that bad.
snip
I'm happy leaving my vote on Robz for now, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in anything right now becuase this is D1, and anemones are not known for their strong reads...
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So that being said I think Space has been scummy, is a potential partner with both PPS who I think is scum and Galz who other people think is scum. I actually would be very happy with a Space lynch if people don't like my PPS case.
For what its worth I don't think Space and galz are partners, I think scum!PPS started the galz wagon and scum!space is staying off if possible while not arguing for town!Galz
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
This is such anti-town garbage and seriously looks a lot like scum!Robz leaning a little too hard into the faust quote from his signature to try to seem like lackluster town!Robz.
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Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
This is such anti-town garbage and seriously looks a lot like scum!Robz leaning a little too hard into the faust quote from his signature to try to seem like lackluster town!Robz.
Agree but I actually have some pretty strong confidence to read him later and can also see this as actual lackluster town!robz.
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Clem voters:
Cuzz - pressure vote since he hadn't showed up
Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Teproc - doesn't like clems defense of the wagons are popular for a reason aka he agrees with the reasons people are voting them. (he does scumread the top three wagons Cuzz2, PPS2, Galz3 this can easily come from newbie scum or newbie town.)
Iguana - literally no reason given
Datswan - also no clue why just says K, best guess he doesn't like the galz wagon as its right after a vote count.
So also not great votes literally three of the votes have zero actual scumread reason.
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Clem voters:
Cuzz - pressure vote since he hadn't showed up
Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Teproc - doesn't like clems defense of the wagons are popular for a reason aka he agrees with the reasons people are voting them. (he does scumread the top three wagons Cuzz2, PPS2, Galz3 this can easily come from newbie scum or newbie town.)
Iguana - literally no reason given
Datswan - also no clue why just says K, best guess he doesn't like the galz wagon as its right after a vote count.
So also not great votes literally three of the votes have zero actual scumread reason.
I gave a reason. Just because I don't have time to write an essay for evertrhing I think and do doesn't mean I'm not playing thoughtfully.
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So that being said I think Space has been scummy, is a potential partner with both PPS who I think is scum and Galz who other people think is scum. I actually would be very happy with a Space lynch if people don't like my PPS case.
For what its worth I don't think Space and galz are partners, I think scum!PPS started the galz wagon and scum!space is staying off if possible while not arguing for town!Galz
I want to vote space butam afraid you would all it sleeping, and thus garbage despite previous stated suspicions by me on space.
But you know, maybe you could try and use words that would convince people? Or be passive aggressive about it like me? ;D
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Vote: space
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Space Case
crimes against conditional probability
I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
Basically says I don't want to comment on the iguana stuff. Slight ATE but end result is deciding not to engage in discussion about what and who could be scum due to how they reacted to iguna's post.
The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.
I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.
Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
Typical Space looking toward setup to lean on Day 1(no problems) but follows that up with another "I want to steer the conversation elsewhere" and "unfortunately what I want to talk about isn't super current reads related and more theoretical". Space has only been scum once before to my recollection, really feels like over explanation about lack of current reads/meta discussion even though that is normal from Space.
Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
Really disliked this, its like a non defense of PPS. Saying he is likely to scumslip and give himself away is almost worse than saying someone scumslipped in the first place. Says they need to reread galz, indicates awareness of current votes and reads but a lack of committal or comment.
Reads List Snipped
Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum). Gives lots of null or nullish reads, townreads me but hedges it on teprocs case of me being town (gotta keep those options open) and reitorates to let PPS be for awhile because he will scumslip.
Actually gonna end this with Vote: SpaceAnemone much better than my PPS case
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Stop sheeping me!
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In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
Is there more of a case on PPS than this? Because this seems weak compared to other scummy things that happened.
Which are? I'm reviewing the clemons stuff now, and the galz stuff. Its two wagons of three people that you and teproc have bounced between.
Well there's these, but also Cuzz and DatSwan have both acted scummier than PPS in my memory. Though I don't exactly recall what about DatSwan it was that I found scummy. Maybe I'm mixing something up.
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Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.
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Faust, just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
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I'll actually refrain from commenting on the Space stuff just yet because I'd like to hear their reaction.
PPE: 1
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Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.
Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
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Faust, just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
If this refers to my post right before that, then I did not intend to call them scummy there.
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Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.
Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
It's a scumtell in that it would be a towntell if they wouldn't.
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Faust, just no. DatSwan, Cuzz and PPS are townie.
Well cuzz and datswan are definitely not the most town players, just not good day one lynches when Space and PPS are around. On that note:
Snip
I gave a reason. Just because I don't have time to write an essay for evertrhing I think and do doesn't mean I'm not playing thoughtfully.
Literally
Vote: clemens
And
Why is SC posting a list which would allow him to jump onto any of the wagons more skummy then LL saying “i will go on any wagon to get a lynch through” ?
I am not saying i think LL is a good case, but the SC case seems really fast and forced. All these people were on Galz and then that wagon gets up and people jump off for some pretty weak reasons. Given the reasons on Galz were weak too - but the quick Galz ramp followed by the quick SC ramp makes me think skum driven.
I think LL is scummy and his defense of Clemmy was scummy so that made me feel Ok about a clement vote
Which is bad man, I actually could get behind your Lalight vote if I wasn't so convinced by my Space case and to a lesser degree my pps case.
Also you previously have said that for the most part you think the most scum have voted for galz which other than teproc and faust who are on the clemons wagon now are PPS(ding) TWM so not scummy, and SirClem. So do you think Lalight, Clem, PPS are scum or that scum is bussing clem?
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Faust - says clems reads list allows him to jump on all wagons. (I disagree completely says cuzz and pps are slightly scummy, null reads TWM and Teproc, and gives a bad reason to vote for galz, townreads everyone else. He's new, not a great reads list but much less scummy than Space's)
Given that the wagons at the time were Cuzz, PPS and Galzria, I find it hard to see where you disagree with me.
Its more that I disagree with the intention. Clems reads list didn't feel to me like a "gotta keep my options open reads list". Felt more like a "my reads fall in line with what the general consensus is" which isn't really a scumtell from a new player.
It's a scumtell in that it would be a towntell if they wouldn't.
Sorry can you clarify I'm not understanding what you are saying.
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Space could actually be scum here.
Vote: Space
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Just to be clear about my vote, I think you are all scum. I'm not getting a town read on anyone at all. So, I'm pretty happy voting Galzria but if we need a final vote to push something through at the end of the day I'll be glad to add a hammer to my collection.
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mcmc, it's nice that you quote votes and call them bad votes because or "garbage reasons" but your case on Space describes typical town!Space behaviour, so...
I could go for pps though.
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In fact I didn't find your original statement to be scummy but this doubling down of "my vote is just as lose and weak as anyone else's" seems like a scummy reaction to getting more heat than you expected. vote: PPS
Is there more of a case on PPS than this? Because this seems weak compared to other scummy things that happened.
Which are? I'm reviewing the clemons stuff now, and the galz stuff. Its two wagons of three people that you and teproc have bounced between.
Well there's these, but also Cuzz and DatSwan have both acted scummier than PPS in my memory. Though I don't exactly recall what about DatSwan it was that I found scummy. Maybe I'm mixing something up.
You didn’t like my standpoint on the ii thing at the beginning
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Could see scum in Space/Lalight. Especially Space due to this:
Hmm.. I don't think PPS is a strong D1 vote, because he is actually quite likely to make scumslips if he lives long enough. And I think I may still even be voting for him :-/
Catching up on more recent posts tells me I need to re-read Galz, but in the meantime I'll go with vote: robz, which is more gut than usual for me.
followed by
I've spent most of the last little while making a reads list:
Robz888 -- Yeah, I don't like his posts much. He supports Galz's awful logic, and then shrugs off being called on it, and doesn't do much else of content.
snip
pingpongsam -- Like I just said, he'll scumslip for us if we let him be for a while. Especially in a setup like this :-)
Galzria -- Baaad probability stuff. I agree interactions are good, but so are accurate priors. Makes him less good at probabilities, rather than more scummy. I don't think I find his text all that bad.
snip
I'm happy leaving my vote on Robz for now, but I don't have a high degree of confidence in anything right now becuase this is D1, and anemones are not known for their strong reads...
I can see zero things wrong with my statements :-( I had a negative-but-unformed opinion on Robz, so I voted for him because I didn't have negative feelings about other people's play, and couldn't rightly pooh-pooh the idea of voting for PPS when I was still RVSing at him. And yes, I'd speed-read to catch up, so I was aware a number of votes had gone to Galz and that I should look there, but I hadn't got any feeling either way towards Galz at that point.
Then later that night, I went through everyone one by one, because then I get a much better overview than if I try to remember who said what in a single pass. That meant I was able to pinpoint a bit better what had pinged me about things Robz had said.
Back to not particularly wanting to vote for PPS, I just think lynching him without strong evidence is a missed opportunity, because he is quite careless with technical talk, so the longer we leave him alive, the more likely we are to catch him out with what he says. That's not true for other people, so we're more likely to have more information in the game if, all other things being equal, we lynch the non-PPS people under suspicion. The fact that I'm over-explaining it probably blows it ridiculously out of proportion in terms of number of thread-words typed compared to how useful an information-processing thing it is. But you seem worried it's a partner tell, when it's more of a have-been-a-PPS-partner-in-my-first-scum-game tell.
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Just to be clear about my vote, I think you are all scum. I'm not getting a town read on anyone at all. So, I'm pretty happy voting Galzria but if we need a final vote to push something through at the end of the day I'll be glad to add a hammer to my collection.
Oh good heavens Vote: pps
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Space Case
crimes against conditional probability
I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
Basically says I don't want to comment on the iguana stuff. Slight ATE but end result is deciding not to engage in discussion about what and who could be scum due to how they reacted to iguna's post.
I think it's kind of dismissive of you to characterize my statement about not wanting to engage in hostility as "ATE". As I said somewhere earlier, arguing and being aggressive are absolutely "ATE" in my book, at least as much as anything designed to bring up feelings of pity, or whatever you'd classify "normal" looked-down-upon ATE as.
In all honesty, I am way less likely to read closely and form opinions on content if someone comes across as angry or uncivil (around here or IRL). So what you read as ATE I meant as "here's a bias I'm aware of, which I'm stating to make it easier for people to take my reads and opinions into account".
The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.
I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.
Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
Typical Space looking toward setup to lean on Day 1(no problems) but follows that up with another "I want to steer the conversation elsewhere" and "unfortunately what I want to talk about isn't super current reads related and more theoretical".
Naah, that was more "hey, am I not being awesome and grown-up knowing that these interesting things that I'm actually feeling all excited about are things that you guys want to read about almost as much as I want to read people being snippy at one another?".
Space has only been scum once before to my recollection, really feels like over explanation about lack of current reads/meta discussion even though that is normal from Space.
Um... my sig lists the first three times, albeit in a rather tiny font size. Pretty sure I was scum in Lost, which I don't think is one of the ones listed.. so that makes at least 4 times. I need to update the sig, though, because it's kind of out of date. I was a super-awesome as mafia the first time, and then I've sucked ever since, though you're welcome to read and not just take my word for it :-P
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No person I would not lynch is on the table, so I am flexible with my vote. I might not be there for the deadline, but I can post at least ~9 hours before the deadline.
PPE: 1
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what does ATE mean?
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what does ATE mean?
Appeal to Emotion. I don't agree with Space that being aggressive qualifies as that, but I do agree that it can get just as unpleasant.
It is also not incredibly relevant to the game, but that's fine.
I don't get this Space case at all, in Lost they hid a lot more behind her "don't like reads" meta. Granted, there is incentive to change it up, but it's not that easy (see also: pps and setups).
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I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.
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I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.
Is this a bit you're doing this game ? Because I'm getting tired with it. I have no idea where you stand on anything.
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Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:
Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).
I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.
Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg745758#msg745758) that scum and town are equally likely alignments.
Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.
Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.
Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.
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Space Case
crimes against conditional probability
I'm in the process of catching up from having gotten a bit behind over the course of today. I have very little will to engage with the kind-of-negative argument about how to interpret Iguana's statement and various reactions to it. But I did enjoy the phrase from Cuzz that I'm quoting above :-)
Basically says I don't want to comment on the iguana stuff. Slight ATE but end result is deciding not to engage in discussion about what and who could be scum due to how they reacted to iguna's post.
I think it's kind of dismissive of you to characterize my statement about not wanting to engage in hostility as "ATE". As I said somewhere earlier, arguing and being aggressive are absolutely "ATE" in my book, at least as much as anything designed to bring up feelings of pity, or whatever you'd classify "normal" looked-down-upon ATE as.
In all honesty, I am way less likely to read closely and form opinions on content if someone comes across as angry or uncivil (around here or IRL). So what you read as ATE I meant as "here's a bias I'm aware of, which I'm stating to make it easier for people to take my reads and opinions into account".
I'm not trying to be dismissive rather quite the opposite. I didn't think the discourse surrounding the iguana post was hostile at all, it was simply people taking sides and then reacting to how those sides were taken and what that might indicate in terms of reads with a little "best play" discourse thrown in. So when I say you are using ATE to not discuss any of the posts relating to that I mean you are using your personality (consistently being level headed and disliking hostility, good stuff) to not have to generate reads or discuss the first major discourse of the game. Sure it could be just town!you doing town!you things, but it benefits scum!you in a way I find suspicions.
The setup is a bit limiting in terms of allowing setup discussion, so those of us who love cold hard figures are at more of a disadvantage than with the more setuppy games.
I'd quite like to steer the conversation to something that's less tedious than people vaguely talking past each other or arguing for numbers vs reads. Unfortunately, the other interesting thing to pick up on in recent posts is the comment about scum-team probabilities, and I'm not going to make myself very popular for giving thoughts on that and not on current in-game players.
Though chances are that if we rank the posters in frequency order, the set that is least-present is probably not the scum team. That holds especially if I've already managed to slide all the way down the post count rankings :-P
Typical Space looking toward setup to lean on Day 1(no problems) but follows that up with another "I want to steer the conversation elsewhere" and "unfortunately what I want to talk about isn't super current reads related and more theoretical".
Naah, that was more "hey, am I not being awesome and grown-up knowing that these interesting things that I'm actually feeling all excited about are things that you guys want to read about almost as much as I want to read people being snippy at one another?".
This really hits on the crux of my case and yes I think it is exactly as you described. Just exchange "awesome and grown-up" with "scum and self aware to the point that I feel the need to give a reason for acting like myself". I personally love discussing scum-team probabilities, post count based cases, pretty much anything that can be discussed and extrapolated to create a case is pro town because it either A) gives us a good case to break down or B) gives us a good idea of what the player making the case is thinking. You have decided to self censor and rob us of any of those helpful things with a scummy "probably nobody wants to hear about the things I want to talk about". In the past I have not found you the person to need to make those statements, you are confident in your more analytical view of the game and you lean into to be pro-town.
Space has only been scum once before to my recollection, really feels like over explanation about lack of current reads/meta discussion even though that is normal from Space.
Um... my sig lists the first three times, albeit in a rather tiny font size. Pretty sure I was scum in Lost, which I don't think is one of the ones listed.. so that makes at least 4 times. I need to update the sig, though, because it's kind of out of date. I was a super-awesome as mafia the first time, and then I've sucked ever since, though you're welcome to read and not just take my word for it :-P
Ah well then it's not that you are new to being scum and struggling with it, but luckily my argument is that you are quite unlike town!you that I remember, not similar to scum!you that I remember, the rest of my case still stands.
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1. Robz888 - seems kinda town. I don't really buy the "leaning hard into his lackluster quote" as scum from him. I don't think his play has been that bad for the current F.ds meta where no one cares except McMc.
2. DatSwan sauce - I dunno I knew his alignment a few times when he was scum and saw little things he did as scum that were kinda clumsy and luckily people didn't pick up on them. At the same time I've seen him be clumsy town and sorta townslip his town mindset. And then people vote him anyway for the carelessness. Here I'm seeing careless town DatSwan, not clumsy scum DatSwan. This dude is gunna help us win.
3. faust - I'm not gunna just read him as town yet but Faust has not been scummy enough to lynch on D1.
4. SirClemens - Pretty null, but the way that people are defending a big bag of null makes me worry that he's scum and his team is trying to keep him alive. Great lynch choice!
5. mcmcsalot - If we lynch him, it would be like "Oh dang, he worked so hard and then we just lynched him." If he was scum, we'd all feel really good. But probably he's town so let's not do that.
6. Teproc - Just like Faust except from France.
7. pingpongsam - Dude was approaching the game from a town frame of mind. The way he was like "Iguana's long division method is null and void" comes from a town frame of mind. Scum doesn't think of that kinda stuff. Who care if some of his votes have been careless or bad when he is giving off town tells from his fundamental approach to the game?
8. Galzria - Dunno. But I leaned a little more towny because of the way that other people were calling him scum for kinda crappy reasons. It was like scum wanted him dead.
9. iguanaiguana - thankfully he could IC himself this game, otherwise he was gunna get lynched for sure in this game packed full of superstars.
10. Cuzz - Just like Cuzz in M100. Town frame of mind up in his head.
11. The_Wine_Merchant - Null. Can't remember him much.
12. SpaceAnemone - Yeah they could be scum. They're playing a bit defensively; their votes aren't great. I could vote here but for some reason I just don't like mislynching Space and I'm not feeling it like super really strongly that they are scum. I do think that McMc is right, they're being a bit different than normal. But maybe that's because this is a hardcore reads based game so far.
13. LaLight - this is my favorite lynch because I think he's been insincere and a bit opportunistic. I could make the case, but it would take me like two hours because I'm slow. Gross.
Furthermore: I don't really want to lynch Teproc, Galzria, Faust, McMc, or Robz because all of them are superstars and none of them have been super scummy today. If they are all town, that's great! Most likely prolly one is scum, maybe 2, but I have no clue which.
Furthermore: POSSIBLY one of my town frame of mind people: Cuzz, PPS, DatSwan, McMc, is just doing a good job of faking it. If so, I think we can catch them by their voting patterns etc. later on.
So I would lynch: LaLight, Clemens, Space, TWM - in that order I guess.
I could vote Space but what if they are town? I'd be bummed.
Is this a bit you're doing this game ? Because I'm getting tired with it. I have no idea where you stand on anything.
Is the above good enough for you? I am time limited this game, that's why I am not fully fleshing out all my thoughts and supporting everything I say with quotes and stuff.
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Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:
Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).
I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.
Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg745758#msg745758) that scum and town are equally likely alignments.
Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.
Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.
Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.
I think you are misrepresenting what robz did. First Robz came out and said Iguana was town. Then Galz made his probability post and came to the conclusion scum was unlikely to defend scum!iguana so iguana was more likely to be town. Robz said he essentially agreed with galzria and when asked why he said scum's most likely reaction to iguana's post was a frustrated "this proves nothing". So put together robz town read of iguana, and robz thought that scum is likely to call iguana scummy for the post robz agrees he doesn't think scum would defend iguana. Reading quickly and saying he essentially agrees (something town!robz is more likely to do than scum!robz) I absolutely get him agreeing with galz.
Your thought that scum!robz is more likely to read a post quickly and agree with it and then "blow it off" by saying:
Yeah, mcmc got it. Sorry, I guess I read Galz wrong, or too quickly.
I think iguana is town, so "how would scum react to scum iguana" isn't really a scenario that matters to me.
Which is essentially a yep read a little too fast, meant to say I agree with the end result being a town iguana doesn't track. Why do you think scum!robz is more likely to read galz post quickly and agree, what does scum!robz benefit from agreeing at all. Versus the idea that town!robz read it quickly because he's not reading everything super carefully and is getting down more generic "this guy is town" posts.
To cap this off as I'm not like super convinced of a town!robz narrative, mainly I find this thought by you to be scum generated as I don't see how town!you thinks robz agreement with galz and subsequent posts really warrant a vote. I think by how you made your reads list you are sitting on robz while your partner or partners push one of the more primary wagons and you are leaving the opportunity to join if needed all while not making much of any case anywhere else.
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Here's the last bit of mcmc's case on me, which I think is worth splitting out because my reply is actually relevant to the game at large and not just explaining stuff to mcmc:
Already mentioned this but scum reads robz for supporting galz awful logic (which they hedged later by saying galz logic wasn't indicative of scum).
I really don't think this behaviour looks good for Robz, and you trying to claim it makes me look scummy doesn't look great for you either.
Galz made a defense of iguana based on a faulty but perhaps tricky-for-everyone-to-grasp premise (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg745758#msg745758) that scum and town are equally likely alignments.
Swan and faust immediately point out that there are issues with this logic within the following four posts.
Robz came along 36 posts later to say that he agrees with Galz, without commenting at all on the intervening discrediting stuff.
Then when was eventually challenged about Galz, he blew it off with his response at #153, in which he pretty much blows it off as having seen an argument that agreed with his own opinion, so didn't actually read/consider it. That just doesn't feel right. I think it's a smidge more likely to come from a scum player taking hold of useful town-provided opinion than it is for a town player trying to puzzle things out for themself.
Space, relevant or not here - my premise is NOT wrong. Every single player, in relation to every other player, has equal chance of being scum or town. It is NOT, as you have continuously attempted to frame it, that every player is equally likely to be town or scum.
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Snip
Space, relevant or not here - my premise is NOT wrong. Every single player, in relation to every other player, has equal chance of being scum or town. It is NOT, as you have continuously attempted to frame it, that every player is equally likely to be town or scum.
Yea I thought this might happen but drop it, definitely not relevant 24 hours before deadline when whether you are or are not right in your logic isn't indicative of Space's alignment. I guess push it if you feel like you need to to not get lynched but I don't think you're getting lynched and I would actually rather your thoughts on clem/faust/robz/lalight/pps/my space case.
Space if you're town definitely don't respond at how galz's logic was or wasn't flawed, doesn't help us. People voting galz for this point of flawed logic I dunno maybe just stop.
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Snip
Space, relevant or not here - my premise is NOT wrong. Every single player, in relation to every other player, has equal chance of being scum or town. It is NOT, as you have continuously attempted to frame it, that every player is equally likely to be town or scum.
Yea I thought this might happen but drop it, definitely not relevant 24 hours before deadline when whether you are or are not right in your logic isn't indicative of Space's alignment. I guess push it if you feel like you need to to not get lynched but I don't think you're getting lynched and I would actually rather your thoughts on clem/faust/robz/lalight/pps/my space case.
Space if you're town definitely don't respond at how galz's logic was or wasn't flawed, doesn't help us. People voting galz for this point of flawed logic I dunno maybe just stop.
I'll be doing a reread from an "out of game" perspective this afternoon - I find I'm much more comfortable and confident in my reads when following along in a speccy thread. I want to attempt to separate any in game feelings here from the raw overview of the game. I dunno if that makes sense, but it I know what I mean. :P
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unvote
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Should we have a soft deadline reasonably soonish? Saturday is really tough and likely we will not have a lot of people around right at deadline (I probably won't be).
I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
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since we are all doing it here is the quick version:
Clems
Robz
Space
LL
Faust
in that order of preference. although I will also be around.
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unvote
What prompted this and who do you want to vote for now?
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unvote
What prompted this and who do you want to vote for now?
Space's response. In particular reminding me of a townie point they had made earlier about PPS and how they thought they could read him better later one. Felt it came from a townie mindset. My tablet is not letting me copy and paste so I'll pull the quote later if you want it.
And I don't know. But I certainly will in the next few hours. But it isn't space so wanted to unvote in case of a quick wagon build as is wont to happen here.
And I d
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Is the above good enough for you? I am time limited this game, that's why I am not fully fleshing out all my thoughts and supporting everything I say with quotes and stuff.
Indeed it is.
I won't be around tomorrow, though I should be able to log on right before deadline... in the meantime, I think I'm fine with my vote where it is. I do not want to lynch Space, or Robz, or mcmc. Not super enthusiastic about iguana and TWM either, other peoplen are fine to lynch to various degrees.
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Why do you think scum!robz is more likely to read galz post quickly and agree, what does scum!robz benefit from agreeing at all.
This is a good question.
Why did Robz feel the need to post there at all? His entire post was only for the purpose of agreeing with Galz.. there was literally no other content to it.
So why do that? Well, one reason might be to make it look like his argument is popular. Another might be to curry favour with people he agrees with. It certainly doesn't seem to have been to agree with Galz's actual post. I certainly don't think his expectation was that his post wouldn't benefit him in some way or other, or else why would he have gone to the bother of making it?
To cap this off as I'm not like super convinced of a town!robz narrative
I find it kind of funny that you're scumreading me for having a vague scum read on your brother, while carefully hedging so that if he flips scum, you can dodge the backsplash...
I don't see how town!you thinks robz agreement with galz and subsequent posts really warrant a vote. I think by how you made your reads list you are sitting on robz while your partner or partners push one of the more primary wagons and you are leaving the opportunity to join if needed all while not making much of any case anywhere else.
I went with a gut read initially. Yeah, it's rare for me, but also I was in bed and feeling feverish, so let's forgive me for being a little more careless than normal. After that, it was actually pleasantly surprising that a full set of reads backed that up. You seem to be describing it as convenient for me not to be making cases on anyone else... I'm struggling to see how scum!me would have any less incentive than I do right now to make up random cases on people I don't have any decent evidence/reads on.
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I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
As far as I can see, Galz is the only player with more than two votes at present, and at one shiny vote, Robz is actually a more popular choice than at least one of you "would lynch" field!
Below is my current automated count, for reference:
#427
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, SirClemens, Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (2): faust, DatSwan
Teproc (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): Cuzz
Not Voting (2): Galzria, The_Wine_Merchant
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Lots of townie people have Lalight on their would lynch list. Let's do it!
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Snip
Space, relevant or not here - my premise is NOT wrong. Every single player, in relation to every other player, has equal chance of being scum or town. It is NOT, as you have continuously attempted to frame it, that every player is equally likely to be town or scum.
Yea I thought this might happen but drop it, definitely not relevant 24 hours before deadline when whether you are or are not right in your logic isn't indicative of Space's alignment. I guess push it if you feel like you need to to not get lynched but I don't think you're getting lynched and I would actually rather your thoughts on clem/faust/robz/lalight/pps/my space case.
Space if you're town definitely don't respond at how galz's logic was or wasn't flawed, doesn't help us. People voting galz for this point of flawed logic I dunno maybe just stop.
Just because a line or reasoning doesn't work for you, or even for a majority of players here, doesn't mean that it's not helpful in finding out alignments. You may not get help working out my alignment, but from my point of view, various players' responses to arguments like this can give alignment-indicative information. So I'm a little miffed at you trying to shut down conversation that's helping. For example, I have in the past correctly scumread faust over how he handles a point of logic to twist it for scum use. The fact he's carefully refraining from comment about me has not slipped my attention.
Lastly, since you're referring to Galz-voters and me on the same line, I'd like to clarify that in spite of disagreeing with that post, I think Galz sounds relatively townie, as I've said before. I'm scumreading Robz for his reaction to Galz, which is not at all the same thing.
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I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
As far as I can see, Galz is the only player with more than two votes at present, and at one shiny vote, Robz is actually a more popular choice than at least one of you "would lynch" field!
But I don't wanna lynch Galz, so I don't see why that's relevant.
Lots of townie people have Lalight on their would lynch list. Let's do it!
yeah I can get behind this
Vote: LaLight
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Sure.
vote: LL
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Also, people should state their deadline availability if they haven't already.
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Lots of townie people have Lalight on their would lynch list. Let's do it!
I'm feeling pretty meh on that, but perhaps all of mcmc's accusations are making me too attached to my independent wagon. I should easily be around for deadline, and a few hours before.
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I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
As far as I can see, Galz is the only player with more than two votes at present, and at one shiny vote, Robz is actually a more popular choice than at least one of you "would lynch" field!
But I don't wanna lynch Galz, so I don't see why that's relevant.
It's totally relevant to the "Would lynch Robz but he's not as popular" part of the comment. He was one vote less popular than the most popular other people you wanted to lynch. Why state that you're happy to lynch someone with no votes at all, and then say that someone with one vote is off the table for not being as popular?
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I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
As far as I can see, Galz is the only player with more than two votes at present, and at one shiny vote, Robz is actually a more popular choice than at least one of you "would lynch" field!
But I don't wanna lynch Galz, so I don't see why that's relevant.
It's totally relevant to the "Would lynch Robz but he's not as popular" part of the comment. He was one vote less popular than the most popular other people you wanted to lynch. Why state that you're happy to lynch someone with no votes at all, and then say that someone with one vote is off the table for not being as popular?
For the Robz part of it I guess I just wasn't totally up to date on the vote count, plus he's further down on the list for me anyway. I still don't get why you mentioned anything about how many votes were on Galz. But I don't really think this is all that productive of a conversation.
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Also, people should state their deadline availability if they haven't already.
There is literally no way of knowing.
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For the Robz part of it I guess I just wasn't totally up to date on the vote count, plus he's further down on the list for me anyway. I still don't get why you mentioned anything about how many votes were on Galz. But I don't really think this is all that productive of a conversation.
So what was your intention when you mentioned a willingness to go for Robz? Was had you imagined the vote count looked like that Robz was worth mentioning as an option?
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vote: Galz
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For the Robz part of it I guess I just wasn't totally up to date on the vote count, plus he's further down on the list for me anyway. I still don't get why you mentioned anything about how many votes were on Galz. But I don't really think this is all that productive of a conversation.
So what was your intention when you mentioned a willingness to go for Robz? Was had you imagined the vote count looked like that Robz was worth mentioning as an option?
My intention was that I have a scummish read on him and could be happy to lynch him today.
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unvote
What prompted this and who do you want to vote for now?
*Snip*
And I don't know. But I certainly will in the next few hours.
So what happened between the above and the below to change your mind?
vote: Galz
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unvote
What prompted this and who do you want to vote for now?
*Snip*
And I don't know. But I certainly will in the next few hours.
So what happened between the above and the below to change your mind?
vote: Galz
Looked at vote count. Felt that my vote was best served by voting galz. So I voted for Galz.
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probs ok with LL also.
At work now, will do for sure tonight.
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probs ok with LL also.
At work now, will do for sure tonight.
for sure will double check I am ok with it that is to say.
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Also, people should state their deadline availability if they haven't already.
I think I'll be available up until 3 hours prior to deadline and then I don't know how much I'll be able to check in. I'll try to get in short before deadline, but no promises.
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I still like a Clemens lynch and have no idea why that died down the way it has.
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I still like a Clemens lynch and have no idea why that died down the way it has.
So re reading now. but to this point - I agree. I am going to stay on clems for now. will be around for the last 4-5 hours of DL.
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alright so this is built off of a somewhat tired brain, and it is possible that I missed some things, but essentially (in regards to who they would/wouldn't vote):
1) Not a lot of opinions from TWM, Galz, Robz and LL.
2) A decipherable amount of info from Space, SC, Faust, McMc and PPS.
3) Lists, in a way, given by Teproc, Cuzz, II, Swan
- The top "spoken" points of interest are: LL, Galz, Space, Robz
- The "unlynchables" are: II, Faust, Teproc, MCMC
Setting the "unlychables" aside for a moment...
This is the count I have of players that (to date) have stated they are good with their lynch (keep in mind I attempted to read chronologically in case a player's opinion changed):
LaLight: 4
Galz: 4
Space: 5
Robz: 3
SC: 5
There are a lot of people defending Galz, a few defending Robz and SC, and here and there defenses for Space and LL.
Galz - I am --ALWAYS-- the one pushing the Galz lynch. But this does not feel like a skum Galz to me. I may re-evaluate tomorrow and all "lets kill that guy".. but right now, nope.
Robz - I do not like how he defended Galz with his speech about him being "eloquent as skum". At first it made me thing Robz!Galz possible, but looking back it could just be a skum player knowing a town player is town and defending him for cred.
SC - So there is the fact that his wagon ramped up really quickly, but then again there is the fact that new skum normally has issues assigning blame. Still like this vote.
Space - Back and forth with MCMC more than anything. And also the bit with Galz. Personally, I felt like MCMC coming in and breaking it up felt like "coaching" or whatever the appropriate term is.
LL - Not coming to their own defense and no one really coming to their defense. Strikes me as odd, but when you factor in I think it is between LL and Clems and the whole newbie defense thing LL was on...
I am going to stay with Clems for now.
so my order would be
Clems
LL
Space
Robz
Faust
(and please don't kill me for being the only one) - I am not sold on MCMC - However I also get that lynch is not happening so leaving it off the table.
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Not my favourite lynch, but apparently people want it to happen.
Vote: LaLight
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
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New players have new game techniques that we see as scummy because it is unusual for us.
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
Then if we lynch him and he is scum, can I be an IC?
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
I think LaLight would be a mislynch, and after my terrible play (I will stick to 7 player mafia after this game, 13 is overwhelming) I will be a liability for town as an easy mislynch.
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Look critical at the people who started my wagon and look critical at the people who rushed to my defense during your reread during the night.
This could be my last post today.
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Noah chill man you don't know LL is town unless you are scum. If you are town, self voting just makes the game harder for us and easier for scum. I did it before when I started but don't do it, it's not good.
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Noah = Woah
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Noah chill man you don't know LL is town unless you are scum. If you are town, self voting just makes the game harder for us and easier for scum. I did it before when I started but don't do it, it's not good.
Okay, Vote: Galz
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We (town) all know you might be town, and your play wasn't terrible. This game is tough because a lot of really well known mafia standards are in it and that kinda tightens the D1 lynch pool
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I can be around sporadically until 1 hour before deadline.
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Mcmc Vote Count 1.3
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant,, Teproc, The_Wine_Merchant, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888, Cuzz
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (3): Cuzz, faust, DatSwan, SirClemens
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Teproc, SirClemens
Teproc (1): LaLight
Datswan (0): Robz888
SpaceAnemone (0): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, Robz888
not voting (1): Galzria, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, SirClemens
Robz (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (2): faust, DatSwan
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Teproc
Teproc (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
not voting (1): Galzria
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Not my favourite lynch, but apparently people want it to happen.
Vote: LaLight
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Bold added. Clemens decides to switch from Galz to LaLight despite not preferring a LL wagon, and despite Galz being just as viable of a wagon.
Clemens goes from voting LaLight almost immediately to self voting because he “prefers his mislynch to LaLight.” What changed in between? A half-hearted “don’t lynch me please” from LaLight?
I argued against these earlier but the part in bold looks like it could be an actual literal scumslip. For newbie scum it’s easier to remember to refer to your own lynch as a “mislynch”, harder to remember that you’re not supposed to know that a lynch of someone you know is town will be a mislynch.
The quick change of heart and self-vote looks like newbie scum saying “screw it i’m going for it” on a crazy gambit. He then backs down and goes back to Galz for some reason. Why Galz and not LaLight? Because now he knows that we know that he knows LL is town.
Vote: SirClemens there be veritable scum here.
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Not my favourite lynch, but apparently people want it to happen.
Vote: LaLight
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Bold added. Clemens decides to switch from Galz to LaLight despite not preferring a LL wagon, and despite Galz being just as viable of a wagon.
Clemens goes from voting LaLight almost immediately to self voting because he “prefers his mislynch to LaLight.” What changed in between? A half-hearted “don’t lynch me please” from LaLight?
I argued against these earlier but the part in bold looks like it could be an actual literal scumslip. For newbie scum it’s easier to remember to refer to your own lynch as a “mislynch”, harder to remember that you’re not supposed to know that a lynch of someone you know is town will be a mislynch.
The quick change of heart and self-vote looks like newbie scum saying “screw it i’m going for it” on a crazy gambit. He then backs down and goes back to Galz for some reason. Why Galz and not LaLight? Because now he knows that we know that he knows LL is town.
Vote: SirClemens there be veritable scum here.
It was not a half-hearted :(
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Who should I vote for, I have minutes now and minutes just before deadline
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Who should I vote for, I have minutes now and minutes just before deadline
Vote for Clemens who is scum.
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Who should I vote for, I have minutes now and minutes just before deadline
Vote for Clemens who is scum.
I endorse this message.
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It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
I am not sold on the Clemens argument. I think they are fine for Day 1, but don't see the assurity that Cuzz is proclaiming. So while i don't fault voting there, I am guessing he will turn out to be flailing town over gambit scum
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Not my favourite lynch, but apparently people want it to happen.
Vote: LaLight
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Bold added. Clemens decides to switch from Galz to LaLight despite not preferring a LL wagon, and despite Galz being just as viable of a wagon.
Clemens goes from voting LaLight almost immediately to self voting because he “prefers his mislynch to LaLight.” What changed in between? A half-hearted “don’t lynch me please” from LaLight?
I argued against these earlier but the part in bold looks like it could be an actual literal scumslip. For newbie scum it’s easier to remember to refer to your own lynch as a “mislynch”, harder to remember that you’re not supposed to know that a lynch of someone you know is town will be a mislynch.
The quick change of heart and self-vote looks like newbie scum saying “screw it i’m going for it” on a crazy gambit. He then backs down and goes back to Galz for some reason. Why Galz and not LaLight? Because now he knows that we know that he knows LL is town.
Vote: SirClemens there be veritable scum here.
So you think if Clemens is scum that Lalight is IC because of what Clemens said? I don't really buy any of this.
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Lalight is still where it's at.
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Yes if Clemens is scum then LL is almost certainly town.
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Prod: galz
Request official vote count
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LL - can you confirm you are currently on Tep?
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LL - can you confirm you are currently on Tep?
I think so. I’m pretty much nowhere as i don’t see voting for myself as a good idea but don’t want a premature lynch on SC. I would still lynch Tep or SA, but that won’t happen
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Yes if Clemens is scum then LL is almost certainly town.
I mean or skum defending skum....
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1 hour left by my count.
Galz you alive bro bro?
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Jeezey Pete's. Where are the people?
Vote: clems to ensure we have someone to lynch
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I'm here now.. about to do an auto-votecount.
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I'm here now.. about to do an auto-votecount.
thanks in advance.
also, I was wrong about DL we have 1H15 still
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Okay, here's how it stands as of #485, assuming there aren't odd vote formats that the mod allows and my auto-counter ignores.
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (4): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, The_Wine_Merchant
Teproc (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): iguanaiguana, Teproc
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Not Voting (1): Galzria
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also, I was wrong about DL we have 1H15 still
I'd already translated the mod-announced time 10pm for me, so I hadn't even noticed that your timing panic would've put it early :-P
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So want now?
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vote: sc is it deadline already
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I've just finished re-reading SC. I still feel quite meh, since he's clearly an inexperienced player.
There was a valid point that someone (faust?) made about his willingness to self-vote being misplaced because he ought to assign a nonzero chance to LL being scum, and therefore not be so willing to get lynched instead of him. On re-read, that sticks out at me. OTOH, from memory, LL was pretty unwilling to lynch the newbie, so it wouldn't surprise me that much if there's a townie feeling of solidarity there.
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Heh.. and there's LL being all over voting for the new person now :-P
(Deadline is still an hour away).
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@TWM, how long are you around for?
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@TWM, how long are you around for?
On and off till deadline. I too don't like the SC wagon and would love to go somewhere else, but fear we don't have the people.
cautionary unvote for now
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@TWM, how long are you around for?
On and off till deadline. I too don't like the SC wagon and would love to go somewhere else, but fear we don't have the people.
cautionary unvote for now
I think unvoting is unwise -- we need votes to be in places that might crystallise into a good lynch. Remind me who your top scum-reads are?
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@TWM, how long are you around for?
On and off till deadline. I too don't like the SC wagon and would love to go somewhere else, but fear we don't have the people.
cautionary unvote for now
I think unvoting is unwise -- we need votes to be in places that might crystallise into a good lynch. Remind me who your top scum-reads are?
Isn't SC at L-1 with my vote? Someone could just come in and hammer during our discussion. I would love a quick Cuzz wagon, but that isn't happening.
I feel like Galz would be a decent wagon as well. Hence my vote on him forever. Other than that, I could vote for faust, pps (know your reason to not go there) or , no one else?
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Vote: clemens
Can't check again maybe. Wish we did LL
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Here do I need to vote
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Wait what did I just L-1?
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Here do I need to vote
I would vote for someone that you have an actual scum read on. I can hammer SC if needed, but I and Space would prefer the vote to go to someone else.
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Who do yall scumread? I can switch for the next 10 min if yall convince me it's good.
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@TWM, how long are you around for?
On and off till deadline. I too don't like the SC wagon and would love to go somewhere else, but fear we don't have the people.
cautionary unvote for now
I think unvoting is unwise -- we need votes to be in places that might crystallise into a good lynch. Remind me who your top scum-reads are?
Isn't SC at L-1 with my vote? Someone could just come in and hammer during our discussion. I would love a quick Cuzz wagon, but that isn't happening.
I feel like Galz would be a decent wagon as well. Hence my vote on him forever. Other than that, I could vote for faust, pps (know your reason to not go there) or , no one else?
The wagon only reached L-2 (5 players) by my count.
Unvoting from a lynch in the runup to deadline with lots of people having apparently-flaky availability just feels a bit iffy.. you at least move onto a preferred other wagon, don't you?
I've just gone and looked at my voting list, and indeed you were on Galz for a while, though once that wagon reached 4, you didn't take that long to hop off onto Cuzz instead.
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Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (5): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Not Voting (2): Galzria, The_Wine_Merchant
We're 13 players, so it's 7 to lynch, right? I think that means SC has peaked at L-2 so far.
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duh. I thought we lynched at 6.
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and, yeah. we aren't lynching anyone else.
vote: SC
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Who do yall scumread? I can switch for the next 10 min if yall convince me it's good.
I scumread Robz, mostly :-P
I can move to SC. He has that advantage that if he does flip scum then his partner interactions will probably be more telling than for a more experienced player.. I think he overexplains his top scumread a bit in his reads list, for instance.
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vote: SC
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Hammertime
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At work. Class starts in 2 minutes
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Hammertime
Nice of you to show up ;D
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Yeah, I make that 7:
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
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I wish I had something thoughtful to say, but I don‘t, which is fitting with my performance. So I will just crack a lame joke. I guess I was lynched for not including myself in my reads list ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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And for those not waiting for the flip: I was a VT
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Look critical at the people who started my wagon and look critical at the people who rushed to my defense during your reread during the night.
^
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If he's telling the truth about his upcoming flip, TWM and Galz look a bit scummy.
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thread locked
D1 final vote count.
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (0):
with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mr_VkAXWZA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mr_VkAXWZA)
if i am alive this time next year
will i have arrived in time to share?
and mine is about as good this far
and i'm still applied to what you are.
SirClemens has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie
night 1 starts now. please get all night actions in by 18:00 forum time on monday.
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https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s (https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s)
i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son
or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]
Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher
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https://youtu.be/8bQJdAqbQJ0?t=4m5s (https://youtu.be/8bQJdAqbQJ0?t=4m5s)
andrew jackson, all i'm asking
show us the wheel, and give us the wine
raise the banner, jackson hammer
everyone goes to the capitol line
Day 2 Starts!
Vote count 2.0
not voting (11): Robz888, DatSwan, faust, mcmcsalot, Teproc, pingpongsam, iguanaiguana, Cuzz, The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time. thread unlopped.
mod notes
- rest in my arms, sleep in my bed, there's a design, to what i did and said
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Vote: cuzz
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Ok cool
vote: cuzz
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Vote: TWM
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Noting that I was wrong again, Galz. I'll try to do better next time.
What's the Cuzz thing ?
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Note that I was right about SirClemens by the way.
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this makes me want to vote faust to be sincere
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vote: faust
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this makes me want to vote faust to be sincere
I don't quite see how the fact that you were right about Clemens would make you want to vote for me...
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this makes me want to vote faust to be sincere
I don't quite see how the fact that you were right about Clemens would make you want to vote for me...
Your tunneling of him based on the clear newb!play convinced a lot of people to vote for him
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this makes me want to vote faust to be sincere
I don't quite see how the fact that you were right about Clemens would make you want to vote for me...
Your tunneling of him based on the clear newb!play convinced a lot of people to vote for him
If I convinced a lot of people, then things couldn't have been so clear, could they?
Also I didn't even tunnel Clemens I think.
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Faust truthed. Why all the vote?
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
Who should I vote for, I have minutes now and minutes just before deadline
Vote for Clemens who is scum.
I endorse this message.
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I feel like faust is scum here.
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Yeah I thought the self-vote was scummy. Self-votes are scummy. There was no reason for town to do this. I fail to see how this makes me scum.
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Yeah I thought the self-vote was scummy. Self-votes are scummy. There was no reason for town to do this. I fail to see how this makes me scum.
This was a convenient reason to vote him and tell everyone to do the same
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Yeah I thought the self-vote was scummy. Self-votes are scummy. There was no reason for town to do this. I fail to see how this makes me scum.
This was a convenient reason to vote him and tell everyone to do the same
Strange that I had already voted for him beforehand...
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Will do some more in depth analysis later this morning. Interesting scum killed the other major wagon for us and galz was on wagon and lurking. Honestly strange kill.
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I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
I guess the only other feasible option is Vote: SirClemens. As I prefer my mislynch over yours. There is one scum in the three wagon starters that I posted earlier, porbably one in the group of people that defended me. No idea about the stance of the last one (assuming there are three).
Can we please lynch this guy now?
Why is that? I think he’s quite an obv!town
This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
Oh this post is scummy. It's just echoing Cuss.
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Will do some more in depth analysis later this morning. Interesting scum killed the other major wagon for us and galz was on wagon and lurking. Honestly strange kill.
Scum always comments on the strangeness of the kill.
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This is exactly the kind of thing newbies do to try and seem townie. "Oh look I'm not even fighting." It's never townie because town has no reason to do that. Clemens seems to know that you will be a mislynch, which as town he wouldn't and thus would not sacrifice himself for you. It's just a pose.
Oh this post is scummy. It's just echoing Cuss.
I cannot find any post of Cuzz that I supposedly echoed here...
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SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant,
Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Looks highly likely at least 1 scum, likely 2, and possibly all 3 were on Clemens yesterday. The bolded are known townies (at least to me). I'd like to hear mcmc and Robz reasons for voting SA. Galzria was also a very popular vote to cast yesterday. I'll be looking into who was voting there, their reasons, and why they left. I was the first vote for dubious reasons so i find it interesting that many followed (for their own reasons I am sure).
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People who subsequently voted for Galzria after all the outpouring of outrage over my initial vote on him (in order of appearance):
Teproc (offwagon) - for accepting iguana math without argument (a good vote, imho)
TWM (late wagon) - sheeps Teproc (but disclaims with hesitancy) leveraging Teproc's anti-mcmc sentiments as his reasons (scummy vote)
faust (instigated the clemens wagon) - sheeps Teproc/TWM... does faust sheep, ever? uses Galz' words about people not reading him against him (scummiest vote so far)
SirClemens (never left Galz vote) - argues with his defense as well, which is sad because this was the entire point of my voting him, to trap scum not town (scum read this vote prior to his flip)
Somwhere in here Teproc acts amazed Galz has a wagon on him and, if i followed correctly, TWM revoted just for fun (null for both behaviors)
Also, right about here faust decides to switch to Sirclemens for wanting to join a popular wagon. If Galz hadn't flipped town already I'd see this as bus reversal tactic. But maybe faust is just looking to drum up some lynch wagons, I dunno. Seems odd for the sheep to cast stones at the sheep.
Teproc decides to follow faust and vote SirClemens, he quickly recants and goes back to Galz. Lynch drumming at it's finest. I don't think lynch drumming in and of itself is anyhting but null. It has to be done and there's always a pack of 3 or 4 doing it especially as the day draws to a close. That there is some cohesion at play I think looks more towny than scum as scum wants to stratify the wagons and then force a quick vote at the end instead of letting the momentum build more slowly and naturally.
Somewhere along here TWM unvotes and revotes Galz. this seems really odd to me and cuzz openly says so as well. Meanwhile the lynch drum turns to LaLight. iguana feeds this fire.
as LL wagon interest grows faust and DatSwan reiterate the importance of a Clemens lynch. Datswan goes on to try to place hard limits on the lynch pool His final pool:
Clems
LL
Space
Robz
Faust
Why he agrees with faust on lynching clemens but has faust in his pool is mystifying. Is this weak distancing?
Then the self vote. Self-voting is bad. I've tried it every possible way. It's never good. I am not 100% certain we should always punish it but I am 100% certain it should never be done. why? Because the resulting lynch is fully qualified. There's no way to sort out the bad guys on that wagon when everyone has a perfectly acceptable reason to be there. faust knows this, though and was very, very quick to jump to voting him and calling for everyone else ot do so as well instead of trying to talk him off the cliff. Newbs self vote and need some cliff talking.
For now, until further analysis comes along, Vote: faust FOS: DatSwan
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WHy is Space a known townie ?
I do think Galz's flip should help give us interesting wagon analysis.
PPE: I follow the reasoning on faust, but where's the FoS on Swan coming from ?
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Will do some more in depth analysis later this morning. Interesting scum killed the other major wagon for us and galz was on wagon and lurking. Honestly strange kill.
Scum always comments on the strangeness of the kill.
Meh. It's not that strange a kill either: not the most obvious one certainly, but killing a storng townie who's hard ot lynch (regardless of how much suspicion there is) isn't exactly unconventional scum play.
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WHy is Space a known townie ?
Because I said so.
PPE: I follow the reasoning on faust, but where's the FoS on Swan coming from ?
Because I think I detect some scum coordination betwixt them. More importantly, because of Swan's ending pool that included faust but made sure to follow right behind him in the Clemens mislynch. It seems very plausible that scum cast two starting votes on Clemens who faust was already trying to finagle before the self vote.
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WHy is Space a known townie ?
Because I said so.
To be clear: is this an overly confident reads thing, or a PR thing ?
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WHy is Space a known townie ?
Because I said so.
To be clear: is this an overly confident reads thing, or a PR thing ?
Space is confirmed Town.
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
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Noting that I was wrong again, Galz. I'll try to do better next time.
What's the Cuzz thing ?
It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
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I feel like faust is scum here.
Sure
vote: faust
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
The question should have read, "why did you target space"? Instead, it's the usual kill the obvious good guy for using his role to help town identify the other good guys that always happens for inscrutable reasons especially since it is always town that leads the crusade.
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
The cryptic part is where I refuse to actually tell you my role. Figured I'd go ahead and toss that out there before you ask the wrong question again.
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
The cryptic part is where I refuse to actually tell you my role. Figured I'd go ahead and toss that out there before you ask the wrong question again.
Do you think it is worthwhile to assess the wagon on Space like you did on Galz then?
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
The question should have read, "why did you target space"? Instead, it's the usual kill the obvious good guy for using his role to help town identify the other good guys that always happens for inscrutable reasons especially since it is always town that leads the crusade.
Wait, what ? I was looking for clarification, stop with the useless paranoia.
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Galz is indeed a strange kill. I sort of think faust is scum, given that he didn't die.
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Galz is indeed a strange kill. I sort of think faust is scum, given that he didn't die.
Here we go again!
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Galz is indeed a strange kill. I sort of think faust is scum, given that he didn't die.
Here we go again!
Let's be clear here though. No one currently voting for you is voting for you because of this reason, so don't try and spin it this way. Not saying you currently are, but that you might, and shouldn't, in the future unless someone actually uses that as a reason to vote for you.
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And I do agree that in isolation it is a crappy reason to vote, or even suspect someone.
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Noting that I was wrong again, Galz. I'll try to do better next time.
What's the Cuzz thing ?
It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
Not that that explains anything.
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The PPS case is pretty good. Faust, how do you plead?
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Noting that I was wrong again, Galz. I'll try to do better next time.
What's the Cuzz thing ?
It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
Not that that explains anything.
It does if you go back and read my posts about Cuzz further. Don't really want to go dig them up just for curiosity's sake though as I currently think the vote is better spent on you. But will pull them up if you really think I need to.
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Looks highly likely at least 1 scum, likely 2, and possibly all 3 were on Clemens yesterday.
Why?
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Looks highly likely at least 1 scum, likely 2, and possibly all 3 were on Clemens yesterday.
Why?
Teproc, Robz, and mcmc are the only possibilities for off wagon scum. I find it highly unlikely all 3 were off wagon, unlikely that 2 were off wagon, and possible that non were off wagon.
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So PPS I'll bite:
Why did you pick space for whatever it is you did to find out space's alignment?
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Let's look at PPS. First I want to say that looking at the Galzria wagon is a useful thing to do and I should look into that later. But somehow I seem to need to defend myself first.
faust (instigated the clemens wagon) - sheeps Teproc/TWM... does faust sheep, ever? uses Galz' words about people not reading him against him (scummiest vote so far)
The implied subtext here is that since I sheep and never do that, I must be scum? Which unfortunately is not how scumtells work. If I never do it (and I agree that I don't like sheeping), then I have no reason to replicate it as scum and thus it is actually a townie thing for me to do. I don't know what the second point is supposed to mean and have to look up what I posted... Oh I suppose it is referring to this post:
Oops. Vote: Galzria
That the only defense he brings up is "oh this guy can't read me anyway" doesn't help.
I don't know what the problem with that post is.
Also, right about here faust decides to switch to Sirclemens for wanting to join a popular wagon. If Galz hadn't flipped town already I'd see this as bus reversal tactic. But maybe faust is just looking to drum up some lynch wagons, I dunno. Seems odd for the sheep to cast stones at the sheep.
Here is at best a misunderstanding and at worst a misrepresentation of my Clemens case. I wasn't voting him for joining the Galzria wagon, I was for him scumreading all the exact people who currently had votes on them.
I don't really see any valid reasoning here beyond "faust was on Galzria and Clemens". I mean obviously it wasn't great that I was voting for two townies, but I tend to vote for a lot of people and some of them will inevitably happen to be townies.
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Looks highly likely at least 1 scum, likely 2, and possibly all 3 were on Clemens yesterday.
Why?
Teproc, Robz, and mcmc are the only possibilities for off wagon scum. I find it highly unlikely all 3 were off wagon, unlikely that 2 were off wagon, and possible that non were off wagon.
So it's true because it's true?
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The PPS case is pretty good. Faust, how do you plead?
See above, I plead not guilty and I also plead bad case.
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Looks highly likely at least 1 scum, likely 2, and possibly all 3 were on Clemens yesterday.
Why?
Teproc, Robz, and mcmc are the only possibilities for off wagon scum. I find it highly unlikely all 3 were off wagon, unlikely that 2 were off wagon, and possible that non were off wagon.
So it's true because it's true?
Yes, I can only speak for my perspective but I am the unequivocal authority on that subject.
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
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So PPS I'll bite:
Why did you pick space for whatever it is you did to find out space's alignment?
3 reasons
I wanted to find off wagon scum if they exist because on-wagon POE looked not only more straightforward but probably better left up to the more logical players (of which SA probably tops the list)
SA was dampening my wagon more than once yesterday by saying if I were scum I'd slip into my own noose, anyhow. While, I don't disagree on the face of this argument, I am naturally suspicious of anyone buddying me in any fashion. Also, this looked like it could be setting up a future lynch because it's entirely possible for my town behaviors to be construed as scum slips as I don't tend to play like anyone else I know of and my motives for that style of play are largely hidden.
Finally, it sucks when your target gets killed and if Space was going to flip town I'd rather not found out in the published NK results and waste my action. For reasons I'm not sure I can clearly articulate but do hinge upon some of the reasons above, I figured SA was least likely to get NK'd (except for myself) from the off wagon players.
I should note that my interaction with Teproc wasn't that I had some amazing insights that he was overlooking more that he could have gotten the same degree of clarity he was seeking by asking productive questions rather than scummily trying to highlight the obvious.
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
BOLD
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
BOLD
Why did you hammer?
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
BOLD
Why did you hammer?
Let me reword, since Galzria hammered, I was forgetting him because he flipped town. Why did you seek to finalize the Clemens wagon?
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
BOLD
Why did you hammer?
Did I?
I didn't. Galz did.
Hammertime
I was L-1. And if you are asking why I was L-1. It is because at that point there was no other possible wagon that could be obtained given the time we had and the number of people that were online. It was me, space and Robz. Then iguana came and put it at L-2 and left.
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You're asking entirely the wrong questions, anyhow.
No, you just enjoy being cryptic. I am taking this as a claim of "investigative PR with town result on Space", and will assume you're scum if you try to walk it back later on.
The cryptic part is where I refuse to actually tell you my role. Figured I'd go ahead and toss that out there before you ask the wrong question again.
Do you think it is worthwhile to assess the wagon on Space like you did on Galz then?
I intend to.
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If others had come online (I know Saturdays are hard, I was a bit on and off with other Saturday stuff) I think we could have moved to another wagon. But given the lack of others around and the need to get a lynch through (Clemens was a decent wagon and at least provided the info you are now using) it was necessary to have my vote be there to ensure a lynch. I wasn't sure how much longer I would be around or whether Robz would be back or anyone else to hammer.
Galz did, but that was surprising given he hadn't been around for 2+ days at that point.
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I think there were definitely scum on the wagon.
BOLD
Why did you hammer?
Did I?
I didn't. Galz did.
Hammertime
I was L-1. And if you are asking why I was L-1. It is because at that point there was no other possible wagon that could be obtained given the time we had and the number of people that were online. It was me, space and Robz. Then iguana came and put it at L-2 and left.
Okay, but how did you actually feel about Clemens' likelihood of flipping town/scum?
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My thoughts on Clemens:
Pretty meh on the clement votes. Classic "he is scummy for not saying anything" followed by "he said something, it is scummy!"
Unfortunately I see town doing that far too often out of over reading perceived scum traits.
I am not sold on the Clemens argument. I think they are fine for Day 1, but don't see the assurity that Cuzz is proclaiming. So while i don't fault voting there, I am guessing he will turn out to be flailing town over gambit scum
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My thoughts on Clemens:
Pretty meh on the clement votes. Classic "he is scummy for not saying anything" followed by "he said something, it is scummy!"
Unfortunately I see town doing that far too often out of over reading perceived scum traits.
I am not sold on the Clemens argument. I think they are fine for Day 1, but don't see the assurity that Cuzz is proclaiming. So while i don't fault voting there, I am guessing he will turn out to be flailing town over gambit scum
Right, so focusing on the early wagon proponents makes the most sense.
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My thoughts on Clemens:
Pretty meh on the clement votes. Classic "he is scummy for not saying anything" followed by "he said something, it is scummy!"
Unfortunately I see town doing that far too often out of over reading perceived scum traits.
I am not sold on the Clemens argument. I think they are fine for Day 1, but don't see the assurity that Cuzz is proclaiming. So while i don't fault voting there, I am guessing he will turn out to be flailing town over gambit scum
Right, so focusing on the early wagon proponents makes the most sense.
Well from my perspective that is already relevant given my alignment and Galz flipping town.
However, I am still not sure about iguana. (late enough that he probably wouldn't be considered early). If he, as scum jumped on and saw mine and Space's discussion, his vote certainly helped ensure that we wouldn't be very able to go elsewhere
When he voted the vote count looked like this:
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
Robz (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (5): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguana
LaLight (2): Teproc
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
not voting (2): Galzria, TWM
But then again, his vote is very much the same as mine (and LaLight's) where it was voting out of necessity to get ensure a lynch. LaLight even more so as he was probably the best alternate lynch. (conspiracy theory is iguana and lalight as partners, but that seems far fetched) So yes. I would agree that the players I really want to look at are faust, Datswan and Cuzz. Which, you already pointed out and is probably obvious, but this is apparently how I have to work through things.
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If he's telling the truth about his upcoming flip, TWM and Galz look a bit scummy.
And given PPS's and my sheeping assessment I am curious why iguana thought this specifically?
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Who do yall scumread? I can switch for the next 10 min if yall convince me it's good.
I said this, indicating I was ready and wanted to try for a last minute switch. You followed by saying 'we aren't lynching amyome else' and putting Clement to L-1. Scummy.
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BS that 'I put it to L-2 and left'
Vote: TWM
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Who do yall scumread? I can switch for the next 10 min if yall convince me it's good.
I said this, indicating I was ready and wanted to try for a last minute switch. You followed by saying 'we aren't lynching amyome else' and putting Clement to L-1. Scummy.
You are right. You didn't disappear.
But do you really think we could have lynched someone else? You (for 10 minutes?) and Space and me (for who knows how long?) and maybe Robz were the only ones around.
What is more scummy, preventing any lynch from occurring (that could have been on scum) or not trying to get another lynch going that might not have happened anyways?
vote: iguana
I think you should still claim, FYI.
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BS that 'I put it to L-2 and left'
Vote: TWM
Like I said below. I was wrong about that. I mixed you up with LaLight. Sorry for having a faulty memory.
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Good luck with your bad case on a town player
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Good luck with your bad case on a town player
And your is soooo stellar?
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And you still aren't going to claim?
We already have a 2-shot watcher (Galz) and whatever PPS apparently is (if town). Add you in and the PRs are already starting to get a bit crowded.
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And you didn't die last night. :o :o :o :o
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and back to vote: faust as this is unfortunately me being reactionary once again :)
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I will claim at mass claim. Prolly we should do that D3 or later.
I never get killed at night :/ It is what it is, no one is afraid to have me in the game.
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I like Vote: Faust too. Twm defended himself pretty well I think.
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I will claim at mass claim. Prolly we should do that D3 or later.
I question why you brought up the possibility of claiming originally then. Obviously you shouldn't claim just because I say so, but you seemed so willing before and not so much now.
Makes me even more think that it was just a gambit to get you past Day 2 or 3, which I think you have a tendency to not live past on occasion. But that might just be me being overly suspicious.
PPE: Look at us de-escalating the situation and finding common ground!
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Well I thought about saying a thing and then DatSwan talked me out of it like right away. I did it for reactions and to prove I was town to the people who know I don't do that kind of thing as scum. Which is like everyone but you and Cuzz. And for other secret top secret reasons.
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I was town to the people who know I don't do that kind of thing as scum. Which is like everyone but you and Cuzz.
I don't know that.
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I was town to the people who know I don't do that kind of thing as scum. Which is like everyone but you and Cuzz.
I don't know that.
You should!
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Actually I am crossing my fingers that we are both town this game for the first time ever!
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I was town to the people who know I don't do that kind of thing as scum. Which is like everyone but you and Cuzz.
I don't know that.
I definitely don't know it either but my gut still tells me ii is probtown.
faust wagon took off right quick. he's worth a full reread
don't know what to think of the pps thing. was real real scummy D1 and cryptically claims to confirm Space as town without a real claim to go with it.
TWM seeming basically like town TWM but I don't think i've seen scum TWM so maybe he just seems like TWM
Robz flying way under the radar all game is perhaps most suspicious to me. Teproc seemed townish D1 but has also been kind of in the "just active enough" zone that he definitely could be scum
I think pps should fullclaim. If he is town, then scum already has enough info to want to off him soon and I don't see how it helps us to keep being cagey about it.
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Vote count 2.1
faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust
not voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc, Cuzz, SpaceAnemone
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time. thread unlopped.
mod notes
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Faust why are you voting for TWM?
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
I need to play with wagons in light of the two most recent flips. I'm ridiculously tired just now, though, so that can wait till tomorrow...
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I think Space would be a smart target for many PRs. Received some suspicion D1, not.likely to die at night. Hard to read.
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
That is a scummy thing to say, why say it? Why be like "hey remember me? I was suspicious!"
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
That is a scummy thing to say, why say it? Why be like "hey remember me? I was suspicious!"
That's like classic town space.
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
That is a scummy thing to say, why say it? Why be like "hey remember me? I was suspicious!"
That's like classic town space.
Totally agree. What think you of Robz for finding it scummy?
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Robs can be town for a day. Tomorrow is another day.
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Robs can be town for a day. Tomorrow is another day.
what on earth?
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People who subsequently voted for Galzria after all the outpouring of outrage over my initial vote on him (in order of appearance):
Teproc (offwagon) - for accepting iguana math without argument (a good vote, imho)
TWM (late wagon) - sheeps Teproc (but disclaims with hesitancy) leveraging Teproc's anti-mcmc sentiments as his reasons (scummy vote)
faust (instigated the clemens wagon) - sheeps Teproc/TWM... does faust sheep, ever? uses Galz' words about people not reading him against him (scummiest vote so far)
SirClemens (never left Galz vote) - argues with his defense as well, which is sad because this was the entire point of my voting him, to trap scum not town (scum read this vote prior to his flip)
Somwhere in here Teproc acts amazed Galz has a wagon on him and, if i followed correctly, TWM revoted just for fun (null for both behaviors)
Also, right about here faust decides to switch to Sirclemens for wanting to join a popular wagon. If Galz hadn't flipped town already I'd see this as bus reversal tactic. But maybe faust is just looking to drum up some lynch wagons, I dunno. Seems odd for the sheep to cast stones at the sheep.
Teproc decides to follow faust and vote SirClemens, he quickly recants and goes back to Galz. Lynch drumming at it's finest. I don't think lynch drumming in and of itself is anyhting but null. It has to be done and there's always a pack of 3 or 4 doing it especially as the day draws to a close. That there is some cohesion at play I think looks more towny than scum as scum wants to stratify the wagons and then force a quick vote at the end instead of letting the momentum build more slowly and naturally.
Somewhere along here TWM unvotes and revotes Galz. this seems really odd to me and cuzz openly says so as well. Meanwhile the lynch drum turns to LaLight. iguana feeds this fire.
as LL wagon interest grows faust and DatSwan reiterate the importance of a Clemens lynch. Datswan goes on to try to place hard limits on the lynch pool His final pool:
Clems
LL
Space
Robz
Faust
Why he agrees with faust on lynching clemens but has faust in his pool is mystifying. Is this weak distancing?
Then the self vote. Self-voting is bad. I've tried it every possible way. It's never good. I am not 100% certain we should always punish it but I am 100% certain it should never be done. why? Because the resulting lynch is fully qualified. There's no way to sort out the bad guys on that wagon when everyone has a perfectly acceptable reason to be there. faust knows this, though and was very, very quick to jump to voting him and calling for everyone else ot do so as well instead of trying to talk him off the cliff. Newbs self vote and need some cliff talking.
For now, until further analysis comes along, Vote: faust FOS: DatSwan
I was never getting a wagon started on faust. I also quite clearly stated yesterday that I opening believe that good skum players often push busses on D1 for late game cred. Just because I said I thought faust was skummish doesn't mean everything he says is wrong. There are several reasons to not factor in your skum reads on other when deciding how you feel about a third party player. For instance, I could be wrong about faust, which would negate all the logic assumed from "what if". There is also the bus scenario.
TBH, I find it suspicious that you find this suspicious.
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Robs can be town for a day. Tomorrow is another day.
He gets it.
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Robs can be town for a day. Tomorrow is another day.
what on earth?
Cuzz friendly translation:
There's interesting cases on other people so I don't think I will want to lynch Robz today, so I'm not interested in considering if he's scum just yet because that'd be hard to do.
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I like Vote: Faust too. Twm defended himself pretty well I think.
Good luck with your bad case on a town player
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Faust why are you voting for TWM?
I do not like his end-of-day behaviour one bit. It reads like "I don't want to be on-wagon for this mislynch, but I also don't want to start something else".
We have him voting for Galzria here:
vote: Galz
He's on town as we know now too.
Jeezey Pete's. Where are the people?
Vote: clems to ensure we have someone to lynch
This is where he switches. Note that prior to the switch, Clemens had only 1 vote more than Galzria. This isn't even ensuring a lynch, but "I'm voting to ensure a lynch" looks better than "I scumread a strong player who flipped town".
@TWM, how long are you around for?
On and off till deadline. I too don't like the SC wagon and would love to go somewhere else, but fear we don't have the people.
cautionary unvote for now
Now he backs up. The natural thing to do would be to go back to his former scumread who still has a wagon on him, but he doesn't.
Here do I need to vote
I would vote for someone that you have an actual scum read on. I can hammer SC if needed, but I and Space would prefer the vote to go to someone else.
Note how he doesn't say "vote Galzria" or anything like that. He doesn't want to look like he pushed town into a mislynch as he knows there'll be a mislynch anyway.
Add in this terribly pointless thing that he felt the need to follow up on today and then it didn't go anywhere:
It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.
Except iguana is still town. But you could have gotten him somewhere else if you wanted to. You didn't.
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You want to shake off responsibility for your vote and I'm not going to let that happen.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.
Except iguana is still town. But you could have gotten him somewhere else if you wanted to. You didn't.
Well, the other competing wagon was my own? What did you want me to do exactly?
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I wish I had something thoughtful to say, but I don‘t, which is fitting with my performance. So I will just crack a lame joke. I guess I was lynched for not including myself in my reads list ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I missed this when it happened. This is hilarious. *Clap Clap*
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.
Except iguana is still town. But you could have gotten him somewhere else if you wanted to. You didn't.
Well, the other competing wagon was my own? What did you want me to do exactly?
More.
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That is to say, if you didn't like the wagons, you should have fought earlier and harder for alternatives. You didn't because the wagon suited you.
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That is to say, if you didn't like the wagons, you should have fought earlier and harder for alternatives. You didn't because the wagon suited you.
No, I didn't, because I didn't have compelling arguments for other wagons other than gut reads that I have told I had.
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
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I was town to the people who know I don't do that kind of thing as scum. Which is like everyone but you and Cuzz.
I don't know that.
me either
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
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Robs can be town for a day. Tomorrow is another day.
what on earth?
yeah actually like wtf?
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I put myself out there and left a flank open for being attacked. You just hung back and let it happen. Assuming that PPS's info is correct, the major wagons on D1 were Galzria (town), Space (probably town), you (I guess you should assume that you are town too). What reason would scum!me have to go out pushing another wagon through when we are already lynching town?
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
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also I was either drunk or sheeping (or both)... druneeping?
unvote
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
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I put myself out there and left a flank open for being attacked. You just hung back and let it happen. Assuming that PPS's info is correct, the major wagons on D1 were Galzria (town), Space (probably town), you (I guess you should assume that you are town too). What reason would scum!me have to go out pushing another wagon through when we are already lynching town?
For being active and gain town points? That would be not normal if you would stay behind, that's not what you do
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
Narrative is those people are scummy, isn't it?
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
Narrative is those people are scummy, isn't it?
No. iguana is town. TWM is scummy. I'm undecided on you.
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I put myself out there and left a flank open for being attacked. You just hung back and let it happen. Assuming that PPS's info is correct, the major wagons on D1 were Galzria (town), Space (probably town), you (I guess you should assume that you are town too). What reason would scum!me have to go out pushing another wagon through when we are already lynching town?
For being active and gain town points? That would be not normal if you would stay behind, that's not what you do
What an amazing plan to get town points by mislynching a newbie. One of my best yet.
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I put myself out there and left a flank open for being attacked. You just hung back and let it happen. Assuming that PPS's info is correct, the major wagons on D1 were Galzria (town), Space (probably town), you (I guess you should assume that you are town too). What reason would scum!me have to go out pushing another wagon through when we are already lynching town?
For being active and gain town points? That would be not normal if you would stay behind, that's not what you do
What an amazing plan to get town points by mislynching a newbie. One of my best yet.
idk man.. it doesn't seem to be working for you
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
Narrative is those people are scummy, isn't it?
No. iguana is town. TWM is scummy. I'm undecided on you.
no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
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I put myself out there and left a flank open for being attacked. You just hung back and let it happen. Assuming that PPS's info is correct, the major wagons on D1 were Galzria (town), Space (probably town), you (I guess you should assume that you are town too). What reason would scum!me have to go out pushing another wagon through when we are already lynching town?
Assuming PPS and Space is town this is actually like a super solid point.
1 town wagon.. whatever.
2 town wagons... yeah maybe.
3 town wagons? why would faust act that way?
and from your perspective, pps, if you are town and you town read space... then like...?
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
Well I have no input on that because I have never played with Skum!II.
But I wanna say this: The list of potential PRs is looooonnngggg. If I were skum I would read this set up and say "hey you know what would work well? Take the fact that our MOD clearly stated they want to make it balanced, combine that with our PR knowledge, and then let's make some ridiculous claim first thing D1".
Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:
Bodyguard
Commuter
Sane Cop
Doctor
Follower
JOAT
JK
Neapolitan
RB
RC
RS
Tracker
UB
Voyeur
Miller
Watcher
These three roles seem very strong. However, I cannot find an upside to drawing attention to yourself if you have one of them:
Gunsmith
MD
Vig
These two roles are verifiable. So if it comes down to it, we can use that:
Mason
NZ
And then there is this one (separated because of the comment specifically about it being D3 for claims):
IC
II said something along the lines of "at mass claim.. which should probably be on D3". If it is D3IC then we will know eventually, so there is that. But the same point for the D3IC goes for the middle section... why would you say anything at all? - Just don't draw attention for 3 days, or do and hope to get reactions... either way you are more useful to town then claiming a role.
Narrowing it to the non-verifiable sections: Gunsmith, Motion Detector, Vig, and IC - Still, why would you say anything? The easy play is to not draw attention to yourself or to be active and let skum keep you alive as a lynch target. There is no way that a Town Player in a Town mindset would say "hey, you know what would help my team? drawing a ton of attention to myself with a major PR!" - Now maybe he is VT and just is actually doing a super cool thing for town, but yeah.
If it Mason or NZ we should have someone that can speak up to back II up. If they are lying that just works for us down the road.
Also to be considered:
Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
Any which way, I do not see the upside in a strong town PR claim the way II did it. It could be a strong Town Play, but I do NOT believe they have a strong Town PR if that is the case. Does that mean we should lynch II? yes? no? IDK really. But without a doubt - II is not IC.
I think Iguana should claim, I think the soft balled comments about them being "verified IC" are skummy, and (#GoOxford) I think the quite routine on D1 followed by the talkative II on D2 just screams "I had time to talk to by partners at night".
For now I am gonna go bold and say vote:II
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correct format
Vote: II
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
so do I. but when you are skum you have a team to help you.
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
so do I. but when you are skum you have a team to help you.
I guess I had input
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
thats what you have to take away from the post?
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I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
thats what you have to take away from the post?
I haven't finished reading it, but this stood out.
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I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.
You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...
No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.
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I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.
You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it
I had to go back and read the setup post to remind myself what the range of things it could mean was.
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I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.
You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it
I had to go back and read the setup post to remind myself what the range of things it could mean was.
Fair enough. Honestly I only do it because my computer doesn't recognize the term Neighborizor. and i hate red lines. if it is actually a thing I will use the word going forward.
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...
No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.
can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"
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Regarding your post:
Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:
That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".
Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...
No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.
can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"
this game will use a closed, invented 13-player setup in the style of normal games (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewforum.php?f=2) from mafiascum.
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Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit
I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.
I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...
No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.
can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"
this game will use a closed, invented 13-player setup in the style of normal games (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewforum.php?f=2) from mafiascum.
Is this the part where I quote back at you the set up list of the roles I took and the mod said "I may use any of the roles listed above"?
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It's just badly formatted. The setup was approved by a mafiascum mod as normal and they would hardly do that if it didn't adhere to their standards. But you can ask schadd if you want to be extra sure.
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Regarding your post:
Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:
That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".
Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.
fair on the arbitrary.
i disagree about GS bit though.
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It's just badly formatted. The setup was approved by a mafiascum mod as normal and they would hardly do that if it didn't adhere to their standards. But you can ask schadd if you want to be extra sure.
good idea:
schadd - can any/all roles you listed in the set up be used? or only those of a normal formal?
only the "explicitly normal" ones
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GS = Gunsmith
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And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.
And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?
What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
Narrative is those people are scummy, isn't it?
No. iguana is town. TWM is scummy. I'm undecided on you.
no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because I suck!
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
lol
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no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?
Because iguana sucks at being scum.
so do I. but when you are skum you have a team to help you.
My feeling is that when you are scum you have a team to hurt : (
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Regarding your post:
Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:
That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".
Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.
I endorse this message.
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So here is the thing about a scum!Faust
First of all, scum!Faust would defend town!Iguana as town, and stick to his read there. He'd see it as something he would do as town, and therefore do it even more stringently than he would as town. So Faust defending me does not give him town points. He's made a point of IC-ing me as scum before, even, in Rewind Mafia.
But here's the thing.
If Faust is scum, then he's being bossy in the scum!QT, and depending on his partners, his partners may just be like "Yeah, Faust, you do whatever and that's fine." So regardless, if he's scum he's going to have a lot of control of the kill.
So would have Faust chosen to kill Galzria?
Scum!Faust knows that he tunneled town!Galzria and town!Clemens yesterday. Why does he choose to kill Galzria and make himself look bad? Maybe just because he believes he can survive the scrutiny? Maybe he tunneled Galzria because he saw an opportunity to do so and he knows that town!Galz is a threat to him, and then at night he went for the kill because the lynch didn't work out for him? This assumes that scum!Faust's #1 priority in this game is getting Galzria dead. But actually in my experience of several games on scum!Faust's team, he usually doesn't have those kinds of priorities or worry too much about his opponents.
So then there's the other possibility: someone saw the opportunity to set up Faust.
If Faust is town, scum probably noticed that he spent all day tunneling town. Then they can notice also that if they kill Galzria, it would make Faust look bad and expose that he tunneled two towns. And they get to off a strong town player at the same time.
So this logic actually explains the Galzria kill much better, and it points to the person who had immediately had a thorough case on Faust at the start of the day.
TLDR: If Faust is town, it points to scum!PPS, and possibly also a scum!Space partner.
So I guess I'll try this out and let's see what other people think:
Vote: PPS
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.
Bull shit. Were you around? No. And very few other people were as well. I am not blaming you for a lynch, because a lynch needed to happen. I am glad you were on it. I just think your play is scummy for other reasons.
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Hey Robz! You have wanted to avoid complete responsibility for your vote this game. Come vote for Faust!
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.
A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.
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Yeah but psychologically I think PPS would go for a gambit where he incriminates a feared town player and ICs a scum partner in one fell swoop. I think he would love to do that kind of thing.
Actually there is an argument against that too. Space is pretty reasonable and I don't think they would want him to attempt something so high risk.
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Well, that’s a bold analysis and vote, iguana. It definitely fits within my meta to try to IC my partner as scum by claiming a town investigative result on them. Do you think Space would go for such an outlandish plan or maybe I just popped a big surprise on them today? They certainly seemed a bit surprised.
If we kill one today scum surely NKs the other tonight as my flip confirms space 100%. We also remove any possibility of getting additional results from me. So the net effect is 2 dead townies and a loss of all investigative information. Leaving us both alive today puts scum in the tough position of having to leave us alive to avoid creating an IC.
Can anyone iterate why iguana must be town other than saying he sucks as scum? This looks a lot like sucking as scum to me.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.
Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.
Bull shit. Were you around? No. And very few other people were as well. I am not blaming you for a lynch, because a lynch needed to happen. I am glad you were on it. I just think your play is scummy for other reasons.
Well okay but that doesn't really matter as apparently LaLight is blaming me for the lynch. I don't know why you think my play is scummy, but I've laid out the reasons for me being town.
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.
A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.
Too bad you killed the watcher...
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So the net effect is 2 dead townies
Whereas on the other hand if we don't lynch you I'm sure scum will happily twiddle their thumbs and refrain from making a nightkill. Or who knows, maybe they'll decide to kill one of their own!
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Can anyone iterate why iguana must be town other than saying he sucks as scum? This looks a lot like sucking as scum to me.
Scum!iguana lurks and is generally less motivated and will certainly not be a driving force in the game. From his posts speaks a certain excitement that is just not there in his scum posts.
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.
A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.
Too bad you killed the watcher...
I killed the watcher?
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.
A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.
Too bad you killed the watcher...
I killed the watcher?
Apparently PPS has two investigative roles!
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Cool I got us talking, like how McMc wanted.
We prolly shouldn't lynch the guy who softclaimed a PR today.
Unvote
Dunno who to vote for right now.
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Cool I got us talking, like how McMc wanted.
Who?
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McLurksAlot - the guy who criticized me D1 for not posting enough.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.
A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.
Too bad you killed the watcher...
I killed the watcher?
Apparently PPS has two investigative roles!
Yeah, I goofed. Galz was the watcher not Clemens.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Very possible. And even plausible. But again, more data points will likely come through at a later time.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
Killing the investigators is definitely a f.ds trait. I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game. schadd is mistaken in thinking good decisions give good results.
Maybe, a batter indictment would be actually using and claiming investigative powers is a scum!PPS trait because town!PPS would know better and never actually use his power in order to stay alive.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
Killing the investigators is definitely a f.ds trait. I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game. schadd is mistaken in thinking good decisions give good results.
Maybe, a batter indictment would be actually using and claiming investigative powers is a scum!PPS trait because town!PPS would know better and never actually use his power in order to stay alive.
I'm not sure a story in which scum!you got lynched is the best illustration for f.ds killing investigative roles too much...
Also, why does town!PPS care about staying alive?
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
Also the claimed role was straight up impossible given the setup.
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Well, all your memories are clearly better than mine. That's how I remembered it, anyhow and I'm not arsed to double check. At any rate, the intent today was simply sarcasm (specifically the bit about town!pps wanting to stay alive and thus refusing to use his role).
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
Also the claimed role was straight up impossible given the setup.
That seems odd to me because I was actually a cop. I just also happened to be a sk, so I'm not sure why I would not have just claimed town cop instead of sk cop. I think there may be some confusion about what game we are referring to. I know it was Jimmmmm I had the result on and he lived to the end.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
Also the claimed role was straight up impossible given the setup.
That seems odd to me because I was actually a cop. I just also happened to be a sk, so I'm not sure why I would not have just claimed town cop instead of sk cop. I think there may be some confusion about what game we are referring to. I know it was Jimmmmm I had the result on and he lived to the end.
Maybe not the best example because i was actually scum, but I was not Mafia. The depressing bit was that when my flip proved I had no reason to lie no action was taken about the claim anyhow. In short, I have not seen how copping roles are useful to date. Of course, I've gotten nailed by watchers/trackers and their results are always game changing and accepted without question which was my point about having killed that role in this game already.
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
Also the claimed role was straight up impossible given the setup.
That seems odd to me because I was actually a cop. I just also happened to be a sk, so I'm not sure why I would not have just claimed town cop instead of sk cop. I think there may be some confusion about what game we are referring to. I know it was Jimmmmm I had the result on and he lived to the end.
I assumed you were talking about this:
I will say that I am a cop. My results are straight up alignment tells. I have another role that is not quite so awesome and I have modifiers on both of those roles but I have no interest in explaining what they are because scum could easily exploit them.
So you have two roles and two modifiers?
Yes. I have two roles and each has a modifier attached to it. Revealing either modifier makes either role exploitable. I see no good reason to claim the other role at this time. I will say I have not exercised the other role power because the modifier to it has prevented me from doing so up to this point.
Each player will receive a role from the list below. Each players' role will be modified by two role modifiers listed below.
PPS is caught in a fakeclaim.
Vote: pingpongsam
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
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BTW, I was wrong. Jimmmm did get lynched afterall.... by you... who made sure to lynch me... while you were also scum.
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
My case is actually relevant to your behavior in this game we are playing now.
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Sorry been super busy.
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
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Sorry been super busy.
Same. WIll try to get to this tonight.
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Sorry been super busy.
Same. WIll try to get to this tonight.
ditto. first plan is to reread faust thoroughly, because he's been saying a lot lately that I've been just able to skim. he feels scummy and I dig some of the points made against him, but for someone with minimal heat on him D1 the wagon D2 took off so quick it might be scum driven, as though scum decided against NKing town!faust and instead planned to pile on out of the gate to try to get him lynched D2.
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Sorry been super busy.
Same. WIll try to get to this tonight.
ditto. first plan is to reread faust thoroughly, because he's been saying a lot lately that I've been just able to skim. he feels scummy and I dig some of the points made against him, but for someone with minimal heat on him D1 the wagon D2 took off so quick it might be scum driven, as though scum decided against NKing town!faust and instead planned to pile on out of the gate to try to get him lynched D2.
that seems likely
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
what game is this referring to?
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Is anyone else feeling this PPS gambit though? Regardless of if we should vote for him, I would like to hear comments on the theory.
Making weird unnecessary claims is definitely a scum!PPS trait.
I recall being a SK Cop, getting a scum result, claiming it, getting killed for claiming the result (not for being sk), and the scum surviving the game.
That was my first game!
You got killed because people asked you to claim your role and spent like 3 IRL days hedging on what your role would be, then when you claimed it, and it was sorta absurd sounding.
what game is this referring to?
It doesn't really matter but RMM28. It's just an example of a weird scum PPS gambit. For some reason PPS thinks it makes him town this game.
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I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.
You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it
I had to go back and read the setup post to remind myself what the range of things it could mean was.
Same!
(And I'm still catching up with the rest of the thread)
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him.
?
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him.
?
PPS. I know you are not a him :)
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I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him.
?
PPS. I know you are not a him :)
Thanks! I knew there was something not quite adding up :-P
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
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Okay, yes, I've answered my own question: TWM pointed out the "twinclaim" thing early on.
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Okay, so I'm kind of suspicious of TWM, and the suspicions have developed in parallel to the stuff faust posted earlier, because I did a bit of wagon-gazing before catching up with the more recent posts.
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Apparently I open posts with "okay" when thinking! I'll take some time to put together an actual set of observations now...
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Thing 1: TWM plants the twinclaim thing early in D1. There's motivation for any player to want to know about stuff like that, but the fact he's clearly aware of it, and aware that it ought to be in town's minds later in the game, means he's someone who might think to kill Galz or Swan partly as a framing exercise.
Thing 2: TWM's D1 voting patterns are opportunistic, and he spends most of his time on semi-popular wagons with 2-4 votes. He was the first vote on my wagon, but he voted immediately in response to mcmc pushing a case against me, and TWM knows I'm a common mislynch, so I don't give him any originality points for that pioneering vote.
Thing 3: Galz has town!SC and prob-town!PPS on his tail for a while.. the other three juggling around on that wagon are faust, Teproc and TWM, but I think there are more instances where it's just TWM and some towns. And I feel a wagon like that would usually attract scums, if there aren't any scums on it already. Yes, it's possible PPS is just white-knighting me, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for D2.
Thing 4: The off-on thing with the SC vote at the end of the day is far from ideal. The hammer came with 30 mins to go, and I was clearly available to hammer if needed, so arguments about
And the more recent thing 5: faust has been pointing a finger at TWM. If this is town!faust, good we're spotting the same stuff. If this is scum!faust, good, because I think he's more likely than most players to make decent cases against partners, so I don't think TWM is a bad place to park a vote.
Vote: TWM
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Homework for me for tomorrow: Teproc needs more attention.
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
That is a scummy thing to say, why say it?
1) Because it's the truth, and I'm like that.
2) I try never to let it go past 24 hours without posting in a game I'm active in, though work and social commitments frequently make that hard.
3) I was aware that PPS had claimed a townie investigative result on me, therefore I felt that I'd be letting town down by being absent and disengaged, because engaged prob!town people are a useful asset.
4) My slight expression of doubt about PPS gives analytical townies a small amount of additional information.
5) I was legitimately too tired to post anything more detailed because I'd just worked a 14-hour day with barely any break, and desk snacks instead of nutritious food.
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
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I agree that thing 1 is nothing, but you should read the rest, it's good.
Vote: TWM
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
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And to preemptively answer why I am claiming now.
One: I know my skillet and it isn't getting people off my wagon when it is rolling and I already have four votes
Second: derphammers and quick lynches are still a thing. I could be dead within 24 hours
Third: I am suspicious of iguana and PPS given that they are apparently PRs as well and it is getting very crowded with them plus Galz and any others that might be as well. I'll reveal what my real PR is when they do. Even willing to go before, but immediately, before them.
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It isn't an option today, but I will be voting for Cuzz tomorrow.
Breadcrumb
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5 members viewing when I posted but come back 15 minutes later and no new posts. Scum trying to mull over how to respond?
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.
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Lolwut.
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.
I cannot fathom what you possibly could think you’ve discovered although I can fathom why you might tease a fake result on someone with a somewhat substantial D1 wagon, and then withhold a claim until you’ve outed two PRs.
Vote: TWM
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
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I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.
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Actually Cuzz voting you based on everything you have said is quite reasonable I think!
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
Which part of what you said did you not actually say?
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L-1 right? 5 votes. 6 to lynch.
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I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.
I am gonna go ahead and call it pre emptive. 8)
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
Which part of what you said did you not actually say?
Screw this. Night.
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U r @ L - 2
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
Which part of what you said did you not actually say?
Screw this. Night.
I am willing to hear you out but it seems to me that what you said was that you have some kind of result on me which is compatible with your earlier vote on me, which presumably means you're claiming a scum result, which is impossible what with me being town and all.
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Also I've got nothing to claim today and I'm not going to let anyone bully me into doing so.
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Edit: 5 people voting me would do it. But that would be bad.
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I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.
what are you claiming? i am so confused.
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Vote count 2.2
The_Wine_Merchant (4): faust, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time. thread unlopped.
mod notes
- 658 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747435#msg747435)
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
So fwiw Galz and i are twin claim, and as actually both Galz (and space in at least one game... as well as other players can confirm) literally (like actually literally, go check the clumsy threads) when i am skum i 100% of the time push for a Galz lynch for pretty much the exact reasons stated.
As it happens i am not skum. But it is interesting that this is being brought up at all. It is a -small- point. But the insignificance of it lies more in what it has to do with me and Galz and more in how it is being discussed.
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I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.
That's not how it works.
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
Which part of what you said did you not actually say?
Screw this. Night.
I know that town!TWM gets annoyed like this, but I cannot remember about scum!TWM.
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On the other hand, I'm not sure what TWM is hoping to be gaining from not claiming more... I mean there is a limited number of roles here for which it even makes sense to breadcrumb. Anyone who puts in some effort should be able to piece together quite well what kind of role TWM has.
And the breadcrumb, if it was one, was pretty bad.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
what does this mean?
are you saying you are going to go the rest of game on priciple without talking to LL?
or do you think you are a sure lynch and won't see LL until the next one?
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
what does this mean?
are you saying you are going to go the rest of game on priciple without talking to LL?
or do you think you are a sure lynch and won't see LL until the next one?
LaLight is obviously immune to any argument that I could make, so there is no reason for me to talk to him.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
odds dictate we will lynch another town anyways.
Let's say the MOD came in and said "faust's alignment will remain unknown, but regardless of all actions... he cannot be lynched Today on D2".
Where would you look?
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.
I read the "all" part as being for dramatic effect.. if he'd said "both", it would have been more accurate, but isn't he just taking about the two flipped townies whose wagons faust had been pushing for most of D1?
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@LL, what things that TWM had said make you feel that he's likely to be town?
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.
I read the "all" part as being for dramatic effect.. if he'd said "both", it would have been more accurate, but isn't he just taking about the two flipped townies whose wagons faust had been pushing for most of D1?
Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.
I cannot fathom what you possibly could think you’ve discovered although I can fathom why you might tease a fake result on someone with a somewhat substantial D1 wagon, and then withhold a claim until you’ve outed two PRs.
Vote: TWM
PRs are not forced to out themselves. And no one forced TWM to say anything. If he said this and then, let's say, put someone to L-1 or something that would be one thing, but all he is doing now is blank claiming a PR.
He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason?
Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".
Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.
I read the "all" part as being for dramatic effect.. if he'd said "both", it would have been more accurate, but isn't he just taking about the two flipped townies whose wagons faust had been pushing for most of D1?
point taken. If I replace with "both" it reads very much that way.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
Does this mean you won't change from faust to anyone?
Or that you won't change over to TWM from faust, specifically?
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?
This guy get It
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
It was nice talking to you. See you next game.
faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?
This guy get It
or not claim. You all could like... vote too :)
Way more likely we find skum in II/PPS than we do in faust/TWM.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
Does this mean you won't change from faust to anyone?
Or that you won't change over to TWM from faust, specifically?
won't change to TWM from faust specifically
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He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.
There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.
Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".
The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.
Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?
Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?
TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.
PPE: 4
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faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to.
You didn't intend to unintendedly offend me, huh? :P No worries, it's all good.
Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?
I get the emotionality thing and in fact I brought it up myself just a bit earlier... but on the other hand his late D1 was genuinely scummy and I don't really see the town narrative for his not-claim here. There are definitely other places we should look like PPS and Cuzz and the people who didn't talk much today, but this TWM wagon has created good interactions so far and that's why it made sense to push it.
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He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.
There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.
Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".
The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.
Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?
Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?
TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.
PPE: 4
Middle of the night for me and I actually have to do something in the morning tomorrow (dunno how that happened) but this is what I got:
1) No Reason - Should re-word. I have played with TWM. He is not a horrible player. If he is skum he has a team. Why would he *do something that makes him look more suspicious when - as you stated - there is a wagon on him already, as opposed to... idk.. like anything else?
2) I just want to be clear on this one... by saying this: "And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you." - Town!Faust is... calling out another assumed town PR?
3) II couldn't have a wagon on him, it was the first thing that was said. and while that makes it different, so would of anything that happened over any amount of time. Also, when I say "Iguana - you of all players..." I am probably hoping for an answer from iguana. You know... since when other players say stuff it influences that persons reaction or whatever it is you said to me.
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He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.
There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.
Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".
The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.
Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?
Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?
TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.
PPE: 4
Middle of the night for me and I actually have to do something in the morning tomorrow (dunno how that happened) but this is what I got:
1) No Reason - Should re-word. I have played with TWM. He is not a horrible player. If he is skum he has a team. Why would he *do something that makes him look more suspicious when - as you stated - there is a wagon on him already, as opposed to... idk.. like anything else?
2) I just want to be clear on this one... by saying this: "And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you." - Town!Faust is... calling out another assumed town PR?
3) II couldn't have a wagon on him, it was the first thing that was said. and while that makes it different, so would of anything that happened over any amount of time. Also, when I say "Iguana - you of all players..." I am probably hoping for an answer from iguana. You know... since when other players say stuff it influences that persons reaction or whatever it is you said to me.
1) You cannot at the same time believe that what TWM did makes him more suspicious and that he wouldn't do it as scum. At least not if you're a somewhat logical being. From your posts I take that you actually think it does not make him suspicious. Is it far-fetched to think that TWM thought the same?
2) Err... no, I am not. I am saying that apparently you think TWM is townie for his claim, so if he wanted to make people believe he's town, it has worked on you.
3) You're right. Sorry.
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I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.
So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?
That is pretty much the premise for your case.
Better than your case on me!
Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.
I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.
I am talking about already flipped peeps ya deep 😎
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@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?
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I am feeling LL’s sentiment. Faust going after TWM seems more like jumping at the opportunity to get out from under the microscope and start another wagon. TWM is making that really easy, though. The plea for others to claim ahead of him seems extremely suspect. I agree with Cuzz that he is being implicated with absolutely nothing to respond to. I am siding with II that I will not be forced to full claim in the hopes that TWM would claim. He opened this up, let him finish it. I am practically claimed anyhow, if anyone has any sense at all. The only piece missing is if I have modifiers or not. I see no reason to claim further, in fact I expected scum to try to press me for more.
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@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?
Long division muck
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I am feeling LL’s sentiment. Faust going after TWM seems more like jumping at the opportunity to get out from under the microscope and start another wagon.
What? I have voted TWM before I had any sort of wagon. Then I spent a good deal of time answering to posts of people who suspected me and tried to explain why I am town. Then someone asked me why I was voting TWM, so naturally I answered. At no point have I made an effort to push TWM in order to stop people asking questions about me, and honestly I'm sick of your misrepresentations.
Vote: PPS
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Plus look at the hedge on TWM. I mean seriously.
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You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.
Which part of what you said did you not actually say?
Screw this. Night.
I am willing to hear you out but it seems to me that what you said was that you have some kind of result on me which is compatible with your earlier vote on me, which presumably means you're claiming a scum result, which is impossible what with me being town and all.
Let me try and make this clearer. How about via list?
1. I am a PR
2. With my PR I targeted Cuzz last night
3. I am not going to claim what my PR is until later
4. The time that is later is when the others (PPS and iguana) also claim
5. I am not forcing PPS or iguana to claim
Anything else you have either added or imagined. So take away those preconceived or forced ideas and discard them until you have further information.
If you still want to vote me then. Fine. But right now, it appears to me, that you are voting for me because of things you added to my posts rather than what my posts actually say.
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Also I've got nothing to claim today and I'm not going to let anyone bully me into doing so.
Not bullying you. Just saying I'll claim when you do. Before you even. But only right before.
But if you want to see the people bullying me to claim as bullying you, well then bully for you.
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I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.
That's not how it works.
It is exactly how it works. Or you can lynch me.
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On the other hand, I'm not sure what TWM is hoping to be gaining from not claiming more... I mean there is a limited number of roles here for which it even makes sense to breadcrumb. Anyone who puts in some effort should be able to piece together quite well what kind of role TWM has.
And the breadcrumb, if it was one, was pretty bad.
I am not hoping to gain anything. I am hoping to leave mafia in the dark a bit however. We have three claimed PRs, they don't know what exactly those PRs are. It will prevent them from using further information at this point.
The information to give to town will become evident later, either via my death or when I claim. So there isn't any benefit to giving it out other than to sate curiosity.
And sorry if we can't all be the expert player like you. I tried this game, as all town games, to avoid gaining suspicion. But that didn't go over very well. So now I am trying to this to prevent me getting lynched. That is the secondary role of any townie, especially a PR, Don't Get Mislynched!
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I also have thoughts about everyone's reactions to my claim but am saving them for later.
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It would super cool if Robz, mcmc, and Teproc would weigh in.
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On the other hand, I'm not sure what TWM is hoping to be gaining from not claiming more... I mean there is a limited number of roles here for which it even makes sense to breadcrumb. Anyone who puts in some effort should be able to piece together quite well what kind of role TWM has.
And the breadcrumb, if it was one, was pretty bad.
I am not hoping to gain anything. I am hoping to leave mafia in the dark a bit however. We have three claimed PRs, they don't know what exactly those PRs are. It will prevent them from using further information at this point.
The information to give to town will become evident later, either via my death or when I claim. So there isn't any benefit to giving it out other than to sate curiosity.
And sorry if we can't all be the expert player like you. I tried this game, as all town games, to avoid gaining suspicion. But that didn't go over very well. So now I am trying to this to prevent me getting lynched. That is the secondary role of any townie, especially a PR, Don't Get Mislynched!
From my point of view, you have given scum enough information to figure out if you are a threat, but you have not given us enough information to figure out if you're telling the truth.
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Fun fun fun
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I don't think I have anything to day though!
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I don't think I have anything to day though!
what does this mean?
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Day = say.
I thought all the TWM soft claim stuff was interesting but now that he clarified I don't have anything to say about it.
TWM is maybe a bad lynch today though. His frustration is his town meta, and if he's town he is a PR.
Hmmmm.
Unvote
Who should I vote for?
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Who should I vote for?
Try PPS!
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Also DAMA for like 8 minutes.
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Going out to dinner so also not catching up tonight. Tomorrow morning?
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Going out to dinner so also not catching up tonight. Tomorrow morning?
Better make that an exclamation mark!
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I just realized that it's kinda funny me posting a dama in the same thread where I made fun of Drynuary stuff.
In my defense, the wine was for free.
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@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?
muck = day 1 claim thing bit you did.
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I just realized that it's kinda funny me posting a dama in the same thread where I made fun of Drynuary stuff.
In my defense, the wine was for free.
lolz.
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Also DAMA for like 8 minutes.
faust are you scum? be honest
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Tell the truth, Faust.
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@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?
muck = day 1 claim thing bit you did.
I don't think that really made any muck. I thought it was really productive and kick started the day.
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@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?
muck = day 1 claim thing bit you did.
I don't think that really made any muck. I thought it was really productive and kick started the day.
Different defns of "muck" I think. You kicking up "the muck" started the day off with a jolt, but still.. you know.. muck.
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It would super cool if Robz, mcmc, and Teproc would weigh in.
Prod Teproc and Robz
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Also DAMA for like 8 minutes.
faust are you scum? be honest
You missed him by 1 minute! So close!
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Tonight's homework for myself was a Teproc re-read. Only 26 game posts so far, so it wasn't too taxing, but it also wasn't very conclusive. My reason for wanting to target him was that along with TWM, he was in scummy-looking places on the Galz wagon, given that we also know SirClemems flipped town.
He seems pretty measured in his posts. He manages to have both me and the mcrobz brothers as his big townreads, which is weird given how they were pushing for my lynch, though it's also true he was working to point out that this is just town!me as usual. He's not done a lot yet in D2. I'm not sure what to make of his pushing at PPS. On the one hand, PPS was being unnecessarily oblique about his PR info, but on the other, it's usually good practise not to be too overt about questioning PRs.
I'll save some more vague stuff for another post.
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but on the other, it's usually good practise not to be too overt about questioning PRs.
ORLY?
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Okay, so vague stuff that some people are going to hate because it's based on conclusions you can only draw by conditioning on knowing I'm town.
Anyway, this game's D1 wagons/vote patterns actually look a little unusual, in that we already have enough green spread out across wagons, and with wagons on the greens, to narrow down the possibilities for a scum bus quite considerably. By this I mean that colouring only me, SirClemens and Galz green and leaving everyone else uncoloured gives quite a more-limited-than-usual range of uncoloured-on-uncoloured voting.
Now, not all scums or scumteams like to bus, but it would be really unusual not to have seen any bussing at all over D1, so there are already quite interesting conclusions to draw there. Lots of possibilities involving LL (like LL-Teproc), and also some Cuzz-Swan stuff. True, there's nothing concrete that we can draw from it yet, but nor can scum retroactively fix up their voting patterns, so I think it's safe enough to mention. It'll be interesting to come back to it when a few more names can be coloured in, at the very least.
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but on the other, it's usually good practise not to be too overt about questioning PRs.
ORLY?
Hmm.. "good practice", really. It's late and I've not been getting enough sleep recently :-(
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Good point, let's give lynching LaLight another go!
Vote: LL
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but on the other, it's usually good practise not to be too overt about questioning PRs.
ORLY?
Hmm.. "good practice", really. It's late and I've not been getting enough sleep recently :-(
Feel free to misspell as much as you want.
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OK so...
II opens with his long division thing. Whatever, take my opinion out of it for the time being. Something I cannot argue with about it is that it did do a good job of creating actual conversation during the early RVS part of the game. In the end it is generally accepted to "believe" II claim and focus on the info gathered from it instead.
Looking for input on two thoughts here:
1) II does this claim and then is "viewed as town" by majority. Does this make it in anyone's opinion more likely that Skum players would use this tactic because of the herd's original reaction to a claim? Or less likely because it would be suspicious?
2) Is it more likely for Skum to push at the claimers for more information because they want the PR info, or is it more likely that Town is pushing at them to verify they are not Skum (trying to pull a #1)?
My lack of experience in the game is actually leaving me hanging on this one. So, if anyone has an opinion please speak up :)
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Also DAMA for like 8 minutes.
faust are you scum? be honest
I'm not!
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Looking for input on two thoughts here:
1) II does this claim and then is "viewed as town" by majority. Does this make it in anyone's opinion more likely that Skum players would use this tactic because of the herd's original reaction to a claim? Or less likely because it would be suspicious?
2) Is it more likely for Skum to push at the claimers for more information because they want the PR info, or is it more likely that Town is pushing at them to verify they are not Skum (trying to pull a #1)?
1. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here. The main thing for scum to do it is, they have to think about it. A lot of the time scum N0 talk just amounts to "hi, I have this and that power, nice to meet you" and they don't really have any sort of plan going into D1. There are players that would be more likely to think about it, but a random scumteam has only a small chance of cooking up a plan like this, whereas for town it is way more natural. Another note is that iguana fakeclaimed on D1 as scum recently, as has been pointed out, and that might make him not want to do it again.
2. It really depends on the personality, but in general I think scum is less likely to push for info.
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Looking for input on two thoughts here:
1) II does this claim and then is "viewed as town" by majority. Does this make it in anyone's opinion more likely that Skum players would use this tactic because of the herd's original reaction to a claim? Or less likely because it would be suspicious?
What iguana and PPS did certainly impacted what I did in this game as town, but I think it would lessen the desire to repeat the scenario as scum.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
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So here is the thing about a scum!Faust
First of all, scum!Faust would defend town!Iguana as town, and stick to his read there. He'd see it as something he would do as town, and therefore do it even more stringently than he would as town. So Faust defending me does not give him town points. He's made a point of IC-ing me as scum before, even, in Rewind Mafia.
But here's the thing.
If Faust is scum, then he's being bossy in the scum!QT, and depending on his partners, his partners may just be like "Yeah, Faust, you do whatever and that's fine." So regardless, if he's scum he's going to have a lot of control of the kill.
So would have Faust chosen to kill Galzria?
Scum!Faust knows that he tunneled town!Galzria and town!Clemens yesterday. Why does he choose to kill Galzria and make himself look bad? Maybe just because he believes he can survive the scrutiny? Maybe he tunneled Galzria because he saw an opportunity to do so and he knows that town!Galz is a threat to him, and then at night he went for the kill because the lynch didn't work out for him? This assumes that scum!Faust's #1 priority in this game is getting Galzria dead. But actually in my experience of several games on scum!Faust's team, he usually doesn't have those kinds of priorities or worry too much about his opponents.
So then there's the other possibility: someone saw the opportunity to set up Faust.
If Faust is town, scum probably noticed that he spent all day tunneling town. Then they can notice also that if they kill Galzria, it would make Faust look bad and expose that he tunneled two towns. And they get to off a strong town player at the same time.
So this logic actually explains the Galzria kill much better, and it points to the person who had immediately had a thorough case on Faust at the start of the day.
TLDR: If Faust is town, it points to scum!PPS, and possibly also a scum!Space partner.
So I guess I'll try this out and let's see what other people think:
Vote: PPS
This is an insanely smart post. No way scum!faust kills Galz. Obviously my conspiracy theorist brain wants to believe when both my scum reads turn up with a town pr/result and the two wagons I didn't like turned out to be town its all a scum ploy but it really does fit better than scum!faust. I could see a scum Lalight/Twm/Robz team doing this kill/push which does still allow the pps/space result to be true though.
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Well, that’s a bold analysis and vote, iguana. It definitely fits within my meta to try to IC my partner as scum by claiming a town investigative result on them. Do you think Space would go for such an outlandish plan or maybe I just popped a big surprise on them today? They certainly seemed a bit surprised.
If we kill one today scum surely NKs the other tonight as my flip confirms space 100%. We also remove any possibility of getting additional results from me. So the net effect is 2 dead townies and a loss of all investigative information. Leaving us both alive today puts scum in the tough position of having to leave us alive to avoid creating an IC.
Can anyone iterate why iguana must be town other than saying he sucks as scum? This looks a lot like sucking as scum to me.
Classic "leave me alive one more day and ill be dead" when he does't turn up dead and we are at 6/3 he pulls the obviously scum left me alive because they want us to mislynch me then we will be at 4/3.
Just a random thought as I was going through this scenario. Anyone think Iguana could totally be a traitor and that post would definitely signal to the mafia team that that's what they are...
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I do think scum!datswan is likely to want to kill town!galz
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Okay I am caught up. General thoughts:
Faust: seems townie to me. I honestly just don't feel at all like this is scum faust. Scum faust himself is pretty focused on PR stuff and this game he hasn't reacted to any of the claims in the way scum!faust would but rather in the way town!faust does which is why as scum faust tries to suss out safe and reasonable claim thoughts a whole whole lot. I don't think his pushing of twm is scummy and his votes on clem and galz like teprocs at least had reasons.
Lalight: I really feel like he is scum but I am absolutely horrible at reading him. I have no clue how he plays as either alignment, I constantly think he is lurking but he always has high posts counts, he is honestly just a poor read for me. That being said I think his defense of why he voted for clem was scummy. Lalight, TWM, and Iguana all easliy could have stayed on space with me and robz if they didn't like the clem lynch thats 5, people acting like they "can't get another lynch through" then joining a wagon of 4 because its "all that can happen" is pretty silly.
TWM: dunno doesn't feel like he has done any of the typical things I scumread him for but has done exhibited more generic scum traits this game. Wierd situation.
Robz: scummily lurking at this point literally doing nothing. Getting to the point where I want to lynch him and say if we lose its your fault play better as town.
Teproc: feels towny to me similar to the faust read but is lurking.
Cuzz: super town
Iguana: Is either town or a traitor.
PPS/Space, my case on them still stands, I still think they are both scummy, the claim puts me in a really weird spot. it totally kills my reads from yesterday. Which like i said earlier makes me feel like its scum orchestrated but I also just could have been wrong. But as some people pointed out what do we think the clem, galz, and space wagons were all town wagons, I know i'm town. I guess I need to go look at the wagons yesterday with town space and pps in mind and see what I see.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
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I’m VLA till Monday
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Post Count
119 - faust (2)
86 - The_Wine_Merchant (1)
85 - DatSwan (2)
84 - iguanaiguana (2)
75 - Cuzz (2)
56 - mcmcsalot (5)
55 - SpaceAnemone (1)
54 - LaLight (1)
44 - pingpongsam (2)
30 - Robz888 (2)
27 - Teproc (1)
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https://youtu.be/ISs6tEltrXQ?t=1m22s (https://youtu.be/ISs6tEltrXQ?t=1m22s)
as fire to the sun, tell me what i have done
how? heart of a dragon
how? heart of a dragon
Vote count 2.3
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time
mod notes
- Knarly
- robz and teproc are being prodded
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
Thanks man... i hate to be left out. Noticed you didn’t include yourself :P
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Hi, prod acknowledged. Sorry, I've been extremely busy. I actually started a re-read yesterday, but didn't get through it. I will have more soon, I promise.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
And why Cuzz def town?
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
You say you guys. But galz hammered and i had no idea that you were showing up or if Robz was coming back. Go yell at galz or show up earlier next time.
And we weren't moving to space. That was off the table. And I agreed with them about PPS revealing true colors later in game. Clem's was a fine lynch. Don't get all high horsey.
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I kind of want to vote for datswan or mcmc right now.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
You say you guys. But galz hammered and i had no idea that you were showing up or if Robz was coming back. Go yell at galz or show up earlier next time.
And we weren't moving to space. That was off the table. And I agreed with them about PPS revealing true colors later in game. Clem's was a fine lynch. Don't get all high horsey.
Yeah, I was all for lynching Robz, but nobody else believed in my wagon.
I'm kind of amused that mcmc mooted a possibel scum-team containing Robz a little while ago.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I do think scum!datswan is likely to want to kill town!galz
Wants to, yes, but would actually kill? I think I'd expect it to feel way too obvious a kill when you're actually in scum's shoes there, and also scum!swan would have to have teammates to help talk him out of it, wouldn't he? That's why framing felt at least likely enough as a motive to be worth mentioning.
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I kind of want to vote for datswan or mcmc right now.
What about waiting to hear what Robz says when he's done with his re-read, and then maybe considering a Robz wagon?
Not that I hate either of those proposed votes.. I just want to make sure all scummy options get considered :-)
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I kind of want to vote for datswan or mcmc right now.
What happened to the Cuzz thing, anyway?
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
schadd thinks that traitors are yucky, so they aren't likely to be in the game.
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McMc, I agree with almost all your reads. TWM is towny though I think.
McMc is super towny.
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LaLight was hard to lynch yesterday, and the people who went for it were not scummy. Every town player in this game needs to go look at how my push on ALL went compares to Galz/Clem yesterday and TWM / Faust today.
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I kind of want to vote for datswan or mcmc right now.
What happened to the Cuzz thing, anyway?
No one agrees. Maybe I am wrong? Other options.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
You say you guys. But galz hammered and i had no idea that you were showing up or if Robz was coming back. Go yell at galz or show up earlier next time.
And we weren't moving to space. That was off the table. And I agreed with them about PPS revealing true colors later in game. Clem's was a fine lynch. Don't get all high horsey.
Woah 39cmin is plenty of time, why was space off the table??? Now they are but then there was no reason you who supported it thought it was off he table, I actively argued against galz and clemcas garbage lynches so I’ll be as high horsey as I god damn want. Dama and upset irl so y’all get that.
You now saying that space was off the table and you were all hood waiting for pps to scumslip is super scummy, you really only voted wmcbecause you had to?
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McMc, I agree with almost all your reads. TWM is towny though I think.
McMc is super towny.
Help, why and don’t use his recent claim as reasoning.
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Hi, prod acknowledged. Sorry, I've been extremely busy. I actually started a re-read yesterday, but didn't get through it. I will have more soon, I promise.
Hey cool mister “I play every game” if your town seriously finish your reread. And actually rereads are silly since it is tough to comprehend everything. pick TWO players read all their posts and given us thoughts. Do it instead of rerolling 25 more Agricola games so you can get a starting hand you already know how to win with and playing that...sorry in advance I’m having a bad day.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Sadly/stupidly because you voted for a confirmed townie/didn’t help my cases day one and haven’t claimed a pr. Also you are difficult for me to read and always have been, we need to play together more, I think I have your voice down alright but I don’t have a good enough read on your personality to get your level of empathic concern and neuroticism to really get your communication style.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
And why Cuzz def town?
I think I misread your pseudo claim when stating that let me check. Okay yea I think I understood when I made that post. Unfortunately you really fall into a chategory of players who falsely were
“Forced” to lynch Clem. You really lacklusterly helped me push the space case. Like actually what case have you made all game? So your claim on cuzz which is weaker than other claims and indicates cuzz as scum doesn’t convince me infact it makes cuzz townier. Full disclosure need to do a vote analysis of cuzz.
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
You say you guys. But galz hammered and i had no idea that you were showing up or if Robz was coming back. Go yell at galz or show up earlier next time.
And we weren't moving to space. That was off the table. And I agreed with them about PPS revealing true colors later in game. Clem's was a fine lynch. Don't get all high horsey.
Woah 39cmin is plenty of time, why was space off the table??? Now they are but then there was no reason you who supported it thought it was off he table, I actively argued against galz and clemcas garbage lynches so I’ll be as high horsey as I god damn want. Dama and upset irl so y’all get that.
You now saying that space was off the table and you were all hood waiting for pps to scumslip is super scummy, you really only voted wmcbecause you had to?
OK. Let's try again.
It was Galz. Confirmed town, who came in and hammered. Not me. Not anyone else. Go yell at him for ending the day early. I showed up. I was around. But I wasn't sure how long I would be. I wasn't forced to lynch clem. But I certainly chose to vote for him to ensure a lynch would be possible. If Galz hadn't hammered, maybe you could have mustered up encouragement to vote for someone else. But it didn't look possible, or likely at the time. So I put my vote somewhere I was confident it would be useful. And then Galz hammered. That is that.
Space was off the table for me, personally, at that point. I preferred a clem lynch then and I still do now. I said as much here after initially jointing the space wagon:
unvote
What prompted this and who do you want to vote for now?
Space's response. In particular reminding me of a townie point they had made earlier about PPS and how they thought they could read him better later one. Felt it came from a townie mindset. My tablet is not letting me copy and paste so I'll pull the quote later if you want it.
And I don't know. But I certainly will in the next few hours. But it isn't space so wanted to unvote in case of a quick wagon build as is wont to happen here.
I was down to lynch PPS. But at that point there was no wagon on him. Likelihood of lynching? Nil.
This was the vote count when I voted:
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SirClemens (5): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Not Voting (2): Galzria, The_Wine_Merchant
The people that were online were me, Space, iguana for 10 minutes. Even if you came online and Galz joined that wagon we could have lynched............. uh......... 7 to vote....... no one. Cause Galz wouldn't vote for themselves. Space wouldn't vote for themselves and 1 vote plus 5 is only 6 votes. So don't go apeshit crazy cause we actually lynched someone at a time where it looked like the place was basically dead.
vote: mcmc
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
And why Cuzz def town?
I think I misread your pseudo claim when stating that let me check. Okay yea I think I understood when I made that post. Unfortunately you really fall into a chategory of players who falsely were
“Forced” to lynch Clem. You really lacklusterly helped me push the space case. Like actually what case have you made all game? So your claim on cuzz which is weaker than other claims and indicates cuzz as scum doesn’t convince me infact it makes cuzz townier. Full disclosure need to do a vote analysis of cuzz.
Please see post 767. Thanks.
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LaLight was hard to lynch yesterday, and the people who went for it were not scummy. Every town player in this game needs to go look at how my push on ALL went compares to Galz/Clem yesterday and TWM / Faust today.
in your opinion who was the top person agreeing with you on the LL idea yesterday?
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faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.
I agree with this sentiment, I don't find faust as scummy as lalight, pps, or twm.
Also I want to note you guys lynched with 30 min left. I was coming on, also all the I didn't want to lynch clem is scummy because none of those three people made a case on someone not galz/clem and none really helped me in my cases on pps or space.
You say you guys. But galz hammered and i had no idea that you were showing up or if Robz was coming back. Go yell at galz or show up earlier next time.
And we weren't moving to space. That was off the table. And I agreed with them about PPS revealing true colors later in game. Clem's was a fine lynch. Don't get all high horsey.
Woah 39cmin is plenty of time, why was space off the table??? Now they are but then there was no reason you who supported it thought it was off he table, I actively argued against galz and clemcas garbage lynches so I’ll be as high horsey as I god damn want. Dama and upset irl so y’all get that.
You now saying that space was off the table and you were all hood waiting for pps to scumslip is super scummy, you really only voted wmcbecause you had to?
So like... Galz made it extremely clear that he was making an action within a 2 minute window of a break from work and would not be back for the DL. I get 39 mins is a bit of time, but if you are not voting and know you wouldn't be back, you do have to make a decision. Also, this doesn't matter because he flipped over as town.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Sadly/stupidly because you voted for a confirmed townie/didn’t help my cases day one and haven’t claimed a pr. Also you are difficult for me to read and always have been, we need to play together more, I think I have your voice down alright but I don’t have a good enough read on your personality to get your level of empathic concern and neuroticism to really get your communication style.
If it helps:
- My voice is similar to a gentle yet firm James Earl Jones.
- My communication style is a combination of a chipmunk that accidentally found a cocaine chestnut and the kid that picks dandelions when they play outfield.
- And then for real realz....
1) Way to early to be claiming PRs. I completely agree with Faust's notion on TWM, but more universally applied at this point (that the information gained is not worth the information given).
2) I think the fact that Iguana is not dead and Galz is suuuuppppeeerrrr weird and is being like set aside way to damn easily.
3) I actually kind of in retrospect like you LL case from yesterday. I just come back to the fact that I have only played on game with them, in which they were third faction, and they got them out of a tough spot like insanely elegantly. LL posts thus far seem sloppy and lacking of the same awesomeness from LOST so I am taking that as a town read.
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So I don't know how this could be a slip... given that Galz flipped as Town...
And you still aren't going to claim?
We already have a 2-shot watcher (Galz) and whatever PPS apparently is (if town). Add you in and the PRs are already starting to get a bit crowded.
But Galz in fact flipped as Even Night Watcher, as seen below, not 2 shot Watcher...
https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s (https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s)
i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son
or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]
Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.
So I have got "wrist slapped" before for doing stuff like this, but I feel like if you claim to have a PR then you open the door a little bit...
TWM claimed to have a PR, and then they used said PR on Cuzz N1. Then TWM opened up Day 2 here with a vote for Cuzz. Normally I would be all "screw this... there are a million possibilities", but he quite clearly used the defense (or whatever) "I bread crumbed that I would target Cuzz". And also plainly said that that is what he did.
Fortunately, Faust was then kind enough to point out this was a Normal Only Set Up - which forced me to do a full re read because the first one I did was under an incorrect perspective.
Soooooooo,
In the world where TWM found a result on Cuzz that makes them highly suspicious that Cuzz is Skum, the options come down to...
Role Cop
Follower
Gunsmith
Motion Detector
Tracker
Thing is that within a day TWM went from Cuzz onto the Faust wagon. Pretty much rules out Role Cop or Gunsmith (why would he change... EVER? Those roles give pretty damn definitive results).
With Follower, MD, or Tracker there is a chance the visiting meaning something else so there is that... But like IDK it is weird. I guess it creates the question of:
Why, if at all, would Skum!Cuzz target Galz last night?
I still think the TWM claim is super not well timed and bc of that they actually come off as towny for it, but that isn't the point. The point is that I think they rank higher in town points than Cuzz overall.
If we go for the Cuzz lynch and it goes through then either they flip as;
1) Town role that makes us eye role and be like "wow we suck"
2) VT, and then we lynch TWM and get skum
3) Town role that doesn't carry merit to TWM case.. and then we lynch TWM and get skum.
So yeah. Vote: Cuzz
I think it would be best for Town is people other than MCMC, II, and Faust weighed in on this first.
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I think it would be best for Town is people other than MCMC, II, and Faust weighed in on this first.
:(
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Iguana: Is either town or a traitor.
I'm kind of tempted to lynch mcmc now.
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LaLight was hard to lynch yesterday, and the people who went for it were not scummy. Every town player in this game needs to go look at how my push on ALL went compares to Galz/Clem yesterday and TWM / Faust today.
I think I can reread LaLight tomorrow. I don't have a good read on him, which in itself is a bad sign.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Sadly/stupidly because you voted for a confirmed townie/didn’t help my cases day one and haven’t claimed a pr. Also you are difficult for me to read and always have been, we need to play together more, I think I have your voice down alright but I don’t have a good enough read on your personality to get your level of empathic concern and neuroticism to really get your communication style.
Hahaha nice now I am envisioning a drunk mcmcsalot putting everyone on a scale with empathy on one side and neurosis on the other.
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On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.
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Mcmc decided to do some work and now people are “thinking about/wanting to vote him”? I didn’t see anything particularly scummy there.
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On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.
Also two of them involved lynching TWM afterwards... why not just vote TWM?
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[Angerwolf Central]
Everything you are saying in your angrisoliloquy is true! You did a good job proving it even. I don't see how the McMc vote follows though?
Can you not see from his perspective why he would be miffed that we lynched his least favorite wagon before he logged on? And why he might default to suspecting the last living person who contributed to that happening?
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Mcmc decided to do some work and now people are “thinking about/wanting to vote him”? I didn’t see anything particularly scummy there.
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McMc, I agree with almost all your reads. TWM is towny though I think.
McMc is super towny.
Help, why and don’t use his recent claim as reasoning.
It's the scum meta town meta thing + when you look at his recently fleshed out reasoning for putting Clementine to L-1 it's totally solid - he was acting with town best intentions not scum gamesmanship.
I am not 100% convinced he's town but we should not lynch this guy today I think.
Could look at his wagon today for possible scum even.
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
Spoiler: he didn’t
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
Spoiler: he didn’t
Well then a bit of clarification could help you know whether to vote for him!
I am starting to halfway think that me, PPS, and TWM should just clarify the things we have alluded to.
Cons: tells scum better how to handle the town PRs by a lot.
Pros: clarifies a lot of confusion that may be leading to bad town decision making
Someone is probably lying scum so we can get that person locked into a story.
What do others think?
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Datswan:
Please see post 767. Thanks.
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
I targeted Cuzz
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https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s (https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s)
i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son
or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]
Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher
I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.
yeah
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[Angerwolf Central]
Everything you are saying in your angrisoliloquy is true! You did a good job proving it even. I don't see how the McMc vote follows though?
Sometimes you just need to emphasize a point with a vote.
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Don't emphasize your points with a vote on someone you still think is more likely to be town than someone else.
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Don't emphasize your points with a vote on someone you still think is more likely to be town than someone else.
I don't think he is more likely town than anyone else. He is in a group of about 7 players I would potentially vote for. Nothing in his play has shown me is town. So it is e perfectly fine vote. And I get to decide how to use my vote. Not you. It is mine to use after all.
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On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.
Apologies, I thought it would be assumed there was the obvious option of "he is skum". My bullet pointing of the three Town Flip Potentials were meant to emphasize the potential downsides if he flipped Town vs potential the potential upside from an information perspective if he flipped Town. Obviously, I still think it is a likelihood he is skum, or I would not of made the case :P
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On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.
Also two of them involved lynching TWM afterwards... why not just vote TWM?
Also thought this would be assumed, sorry... because in the scenario where Cuzz is Skum it makes TWM look very Towny.
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
Spoiler: he didn’t
Well then a bit of clarification could help you know whether to vote for him!
I am starting to halfway think that me, PPS, and TWM should just clarify the things we have alluded to.
Cons: tells scum better how to handle the town PRs by a lot.
Pros: clarifies a lot of confusion that may be leading to bad town decision making
Someone is probably lying scum so we can get that person locked into a story.
What do others think?
I think it is weird you didn't include yourself on this claim list. That being said... I think they have made it pretty clear that they are not going to claim at this point. If we put the pressure on them and they are town then they claim and your above scenario kicks in. If we put the pressure on them and they are skum, then not only does it help the skum team with the knowledge of PRs... but like they are a skum TEAM still. I am pretty sure they could just come up with some fake claim to be overlooked.
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DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.
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DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.
ah mb. its bc it was in front of the list lol threw me off.
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DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.
ah mb. its bc it was in front of the list lol threw me off.
just disregard the first sentence :P
I stand by the rest of it.
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I think if they are town they should reconsider that given they have both already claimed to be a PR maybe they should just give their results so it helps us move toward a correct lynch.
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I think if they are town they should reconsider that given they have both already claimed to be a PR maybe they should just give their results so it helps us move toward a correct lynch.
I totally agree with you on that one. Just was pointing out that they did not seem to want to adhere to that line of reasoning previously.
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If a significant portion of townish people think PPS and I should claim I am happy to do so. But think iguana should join us in that.
Also lynch is almost upon us. Just tomorrow and half day after that.
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Sorry been super busy.
Same. WIll try to get to this tonight.
re-prod: teproc
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faust (2): LaLight, pingpongsam
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Datsawn(1): TWM
Cuzz (1): Datswan
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
Robz, mcmc and teproc. Voting would be ideal!
vote: Datswan
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There's been a bit of talk/speculation about town PRs, but not a lot of discussion about scum roles or about modifiers.
@TWM, do you see anything in a "normal" mafiascum game setup that might interfere with the validity of the result you have on Cuzz? I've realised stuff like Framer, Redirector and Godfather are all "non-normal", so actually PR results are a lot more useful than I'd first assumed, unless I'm missing a bunch of reasons why a PR might not trust their results.
@swan, is all the reasoning you've done so far taking into account the full range of modifiers available? I think the answer may well be yes, but you haven't mentioned them. Having been a weak doctor in a game that finished recently, I'm quite aware that some modifiers completely change the feel of the role.
The other thing I'm thinking is that if we're discussing having our PRs claim, then it might tell us more about the power of the scumteam. However, if one of our claimed PRs isn't telling the truth, then that might give scum more of an opportunity to screw with us. Though if we can trust PR results 100%, then that's maybe not as dangerous as it could have been.
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If a significant portion of townish people think PPS and I should claim I am happy to do so. But think iguana should join us in that.
Also lynch is almost upon us. Just tomorrow and half day after that.
Sure. If PPS agrees we can all go.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
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Finally caught up. Will have lots of thoughts. Here's an important one: NO ONE CLAIM. Iguana, TWM, PPS are probably all town. I accept that. Please don't claim.
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If TWM has an incriminating result on Cuzz, he should say so, and we should lynch Cuzz. And I don't like what he's doing at all, keeping this info to himself. I don't like it, but I still think it's a townie move. It's something a townie thinks is clever, whereas a scum player would recognize it as too antagonistic and annoying and not do it.
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And to preemptively answer why I am claiming now.
One: I know my skillet and it isn't getting people off my wagon when it is rolling and I already have four votes
Second: derphammers and quick lynches are still a thing. I could be dead within 24 hours
Third: I am suspicious of iguana and PPS given that they are apparently PRs as well and it is getting very crowded with them plus Galz and any others that might be as well. I'll reveal what my real PR is when they do. Even willing to go before, but immediately, before them.
On point three: This is dumb and wrong. Always expect more PRs. Even those JK+ type setups, which are very balanced, allow for tons of PRs. More PRs is more fun for mods, consequently, they find ways to cram them in.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
Yes I agree with this. The big thing I got from my re-read is that I have a scum read on faust. I think faust has more reason than most to shoot Galz, because Galz dying makes faust not dying look less incriminating ("Why didn't they kill faust? Oh, they had to kill Galz.")
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I do think scum!datswan is likely to want to kill town!galz
This is very true. DatSwan is the *most* likely to kill Galz. I had forgotten this but it's true. In fact, Galz dying is almost reason enough to lynch DS here.
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Hi, prod acknowledged. Sorry, I've been extremely busy. I actually started a re-read yesterday, but didn't get through it. I will have more soon, I promise.
Hey cool mister “I play every game” if your town seriously finish your reread. And actually rereads are silly since it is tough to comprehend everything. pick TWO players read all their posts and given us thoughts. Do it instead of rerolling 25 more Agricola games so you can get a starting hand you already know how to win with and playing that...sorry in advance I’m having a bad day.
Apology accepted! ;)
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Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?
Spoiler: he didn’t
Well then a bit of clarification could help you know whether to vote for him!
I am starting to halfway think that me, PPS, and TWM should just clarify the things we have alluded to.
Cons: tells scum better how to handle the town PRs by a lot.
Pros: clarifies a lot of confusion that may be leading to bad town decision making
Someone is probably lying scum so we can get that person locked into a story.
What do others think?
NO DON'T. NO NEED.
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https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s (https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s)
i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son
or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]
Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher
I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.
yeah
I am confused by this, and it needs to be clarified. Schadd, are you acknowledging that the flip was changed--you posted it wrong and then fixed it?
i initially posted galz was a 2-shot watcher and then edited it shortly after to even-night watcher
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Here again now. I'm still in the office and it's almost midnight.. this hasn't been my day!
Exciting to under rather less suspicion than D1. I can confirm I'm 100% town :-) I still feel I'm a slightly odd target compared to Faust/Robz/mcmc, but I don't think I mind PPS's stated reasoning.
That is a scummy thing to say, why say it? Why be like "hey remember me? I was suspicious!"
So, funny story, at the point in time I posted this, I was behind, and didn't realize PPS had confirmed Space to be town. My bad.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
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Reads!
Mcmc still seems like obvtown, or else he's just mimicking his town meta perfectly.
I read all the quasi claimants--TWM, pps, and iguana (wait, iguana's thing is some weird townslip claim from the beginning, right? I guess it no longer seems quite as significantly mitigating but oh well for now)--as town.
Space is definitely town, sure.
I'm going back and forth on LaLight.
Faust and DS seem scummy. Teproc seems waaaaaay scummy. I've never seen town Teproc lurk this much, hang out in the background. He's usually a commanding town presence.
Am I missing anyone? Guess not. I'd lynch faust for sure, probably DS, Teproc, or LaLight.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
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I want Teproc to post, but I don't see any reason to find them scummy for it at this point. From what I can tell Teproc is typically just as active as scum as he is town. Thus I think the lack of activity is due to being busy, and that is not a good enough reason to lynch at this point in the game.
Now we can have a conversation about the posts that he has given. But nothing really stood out to me from before.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
Is this something mafia teams even think about? I don't think I have ever been involved with a scum team that goes into a night with that mindset. From my experience as mafia it has always, been to kill strong/active town players and those likely to be PRs.
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There's been a bit of talk/speculation about town PRs, but not a lot of discussion about scum roles or about modifiers.
@TWM, do you see anything in a "normal" mafiascum game setup that might interfere with the validity of the result you have on Cuzz? I've realised stuff like Framer, Redirector and Godfather are all "non-normal", so actually PR results are a lot more useful than I'd first assumed, unless I'm missing a bunch of reasons why a PR might not trust their results.
@swan, is all the reasoning you've done so far taking into account the full range of modifiers available? I think the answer may well be yes, but you haven't mentioned them. Having been a weak doctor in a game that finished recently, I'm quite aware that some modifiers completely change the feel of the role.
The other thing I'm thinking is that if we're discussing having our PRs claim, then it might tell us more about the power of the scumteam. However, if one of our claimed PRs isn't telling the truth, then that might give scum more of an opportunity to screw with us. Though if we can trust PR results 100%, then that's maybe not as dangerous as it could have been.
After screwing up which roles the first time i went over in great detail his time. I am not saying i am for sure perfect but my general thoughts were sharing further ideas would only potentially help skum come up with a lie.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
Is this something mafia teams even think about? I don't think I have ever been involved with a scum team that goes into a night with that mindset. From my experience as mafia it has always, been to kill strong/active town players and those likely to be PRs.
Nah, framing discussions are legit. But I don't think killing Galz to frame faust is super duper likely, the other way seems more likely.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
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Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
12 hours after thread unlocked. Not exactly immediately after day opened. You seem to be stretching.
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It was really just a narrated, reread analysis of the Clemens wagon and surrounding behaviors that just so happened to look a lot like scum faust and probscum datswan in retrospect. I didn’t actually do any work on it until I had a result on Space and also had seen the NK result.
I think you guys were just more shocked that I did something overtly rational for a change.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.
My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.
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Reads!
Mcmc still seems like obvtown, or else he's just mimicking his town meta perfectly.
I read all the quasi claimants--TWM, pps, and iguana (wait, iguana's thing is some weird townslip claim from the beginning, right? I guess it no longer seems quite as significantly mitigating but oh well for now)--as town.
Space is definitely town, sure.
I'm going back and forth on LaLight.
Faust and DS seem scummy. Teproc seems waaaaaay scummy. I've never seen town Teproc lurk this much, hang out in the background. He's usually a commanding town presence.
Am I missing anyone? Guess not. I'd lynch faust for sure, probably DS, Teproc, or LaLight.
Why is it that I am skummy exactly?
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
except that Galz like -never- gets lynched. what would super make sense is if TeamSkum consisted of individuals NOT including both Faust or Galz, leaving them both alive. How would we not target one the next day?
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
To repeat myself - I absolutely, every time I have been skum, have pushed to kill Galz every single night he has been a potential target.
There is also like no scenario in which Skum kills Galz to set me up that I can think of.
Personally, I do not think that in this size of a game, Skum made a decision at all on the NK with intention of setting up a specific individual for today. Galz had little-to-zero interaction yesterday, they would be literally making the decision based on outside meta shit (i.e. twin claim, or "faust is alive therefore must be skum").
I think the reason that Galz was targeted is that:
a) he is an insanely strong Town Player
b) he has a slight tell in the sense that when he has a PR as Town he tends to not talk as much
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.
My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.
I mean, I get the inference, but I think it was wrong. And I think there is plenty of evidence to see that inference was wrong by now if you read carefully.
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https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s (https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s)
i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son
or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]
Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher
I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.
yeah
I am confused by this, and it needs to be clarified. Schadd, are you acknowledging that the flip was changed--you posted it wrong and then fixed it?
Funny the guy that doesn't read closely is the one that caught this bit....
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
Because his case wasn't based on the lynch flip only, it was also heavily based on the Night Kill.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.
My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.
I mean, I get the inference, but I think it was wrong. And I think there is plenty of evidence to see that inference was wrong by now if you read carefully.
So I get the posts, or at least some (in fairness, I cannot guarantee I am not in fact still missing something) that you would be referring to.
But it comes back to the core concept of the whole thing: If he has no result then he has no information to share. So, as a Town PR you just what... out yourself D2 before you have the ability to divulge any information about your actions?
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
Because his case wasn't based on the lynch flip only, it was also heavily based on the Night Kill.
That is an absolutely fair point.
However, it was several hours after flip that PPS posted the vote count post and then 45 mins after that he wrote up the "what it means post".
IDK I am not saying that I currently have a strong opinion on a PPS lynch, just more that I think this evidence is lazy.
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Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
Because his case wasn't based on the lynch flip only, it was also heavily based on the Night Kill.
That is an absolutely fair point.
However, it was several hours after flip that PPS posted the vote count post and then 45 mins after that he wrote up the "what it means post".
IDK I am not saying that I currently have a strong opinion on a PPS lynch, just more that I think this evidence is lazy.
Actually I would like this striken from the record. Not that it is not a fair point, if def is, but after re reading *more carefully* I need some time to consider its potential value to the situation.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
This is another reason that I said DatSwan doesn't always seem to read closely.
My inference is completely justified. He said he targeted Cuzz and opened the day with voting for Cuzz. How would you decipher that information? You made a grammatical error that in turn had me miss that you included yourself on the claims list. I am not missing anything here, I stand right by it.
I mean, I get the inference, but I think it was wrong. And I think there is plenty of evidence to see that inference was wrong by now if you read carefully.
So I get the posts, or at least some (in fairness, I cannot guarantee I am not in fact still missing something) that you would be referring to.
But it comes back to the core concept of the whole thing: If he has no result then he has no information to share. So, as a Town PR you just what... out yourself D2 before you have the ability to divulge any information about your actions?
OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
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To answer the rest of the question as to why I claimed:
And to preemptively answer why I am claiming now.
One: I know my skillet and it isn't getting people off my wagon when it is rolling and I already have four votes
Second: derphammers and quick lynches are still a thing. I could be dead within 24 hours
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Mcmc decided to do some work and now people are “thinking about/wanting to vote him”? I didn’t see anything particularly scummy there.
He was the first to mention the word Traitor. That is a scum trait. Though someone said that schadd is unlikely to include a Traitor and I agree.
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I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
Yes I agree with this. The big thing I got from my re-read is that I have a scum read on faust. I think faust has more reason than most to shoot Galz, because Galz dying makes faust not dying look less incriminating ("Why didn't they kill faust? Oh, they had to kill Galz.")
This is godawful reasoning.
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
Just like you inferred that iguana has a PR even though he never said that!
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OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.
Just like you inferred that iguana has a PR even though he never said that!
Shhhh i don’t think you were supposed to say that...
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Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
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I’m down for lynching
Faust
Datswan
TWM
In that order. I see little to no value in any other lynches today.
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Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
What is the reasoning for your won't lynch people?
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I presumed Space was on there because he is conftown by the guy he wants to lynch. This makes pretty solid sense if you’re scum.
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Also, he will bus if he has to.
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PPS, go for datswan
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Vote: DatSwan
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Vote count 2.4
DatSwan (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
faust (2): LaLight, pingpongsam
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time
mod notes
- 876 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg748079#msg748079)
- teproc has about a half hour to post
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- teproc has about a half hour to post
And then what?
i make a post in mafia hub like "i need a replacement for teproc in m113,, thanks!"
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Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
What is the reasoning for y'our won't lynch people?
Space because they seems like town space to me
Me because I am confirmed town
LL because of previous stated reasons regarding how they are playing.
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I presumed Space was on there because he is conftown by the guy he wants to lynch. This makes pretty solid sense if you’re scum.
well you're wrong. sorry.
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- teproc has about a half hour to post
And then what?
i make a post in mafia hub like "i need a replacement for teproc in m113,, thanks!"
I mean I'm sure he'll show up, he's a very reliable player. I wouldn't worry about replacement.
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Also, he will bus if he has to.
I presumed Space was on there because he is conftown by the guy he wants to lynch. This makes pretty solid sense if you’re scum.
Fine. I'll bus you then.
Vote: PPS
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vote: datswan
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- teproc has about a half hour to post
And then what?
i make a post in mafia hub like "i need a replacement for teproc in m113,, thanks!"
I mean I'm sure he'll show up, he's a very reliable player. I wouldn't worry about replacement.
The issue isn't about whether or not he will turn up, it's the fact that he hasn't posted a single thing in more than four days.
That's four days of voting, interactions, wagon analysis and POE stuff that we're already missing.
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Advanced warning: the deadline tomorrow night is 3am my time. I will have to be asleep by midnight (7pm forum time) because of early-morning meetings on Tuesday :-(
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Vote: Robz
That's better than my TWM vote for now. I'm leaning towards giving the three claimed town PRs a pass for D2.
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I've also been considering whether some town guidance/planning on what players should be at the top of various roles' investigation wishlists. (Obviously it should be probabilistic, and adhered to at the PRs' discretion, but it might help us spread the investigations a bit so the results are maximally informative).
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Vote: Robz
That's better than my TWM vote for now. I'm leaning towards giving the three claimed town PRs a pass for D2.
Is it? I mean. It is better than voting for me. But I don't see a lot of others likely to lynch him. I am not super inclined.
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Ghacob replaces Teproc, effective immediately! everyone welcome them to the game and also welcome them back to forum mafia here!
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I know tradition is to welcome the new guy with some votes. But can we skip that tradition and just maintain votes as they are in hope to build toward a lynch?
Also welcome Ghacob. Can I call you Ghake for short?
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Can we have an extra 24 hours for them to catch up?
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Can we have an extra 24 hours for them to catch up?
I support this.
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Can we have an extra 24 hours for them to catch up?
I support this.
Me too.
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oh yeah deadline extended by 24hr
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Also, welcome Ghacob! :-)
Please wade in with lots of alignment-indicative musings and stuff as you get caught up... there's been a total drought on the Teproc front, and several aspects of his wagon placement on D1 make him someone I'd very much like to have had a read on... all that mess gets transferred over to you now. No pressure :-)
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Okay, I think the replacement was unnecessarily swift but I guess what's done is done...
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Hey everyone! Thanks for the warm (re)welcome!
Gonna take some time to give the whole thread a proper proper reading, although I already have some thoughts on things that I'll be posting mid-through-before that
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I was good for tmorrow's deadline but I will be largely VLA all of Tuesday and especially around deadline. I'm out of town on business starting Tuesday and getting back Thursday. I will be able to stay caught up by reading sporadically but unlikely to be able to make any big contributions. I'll try to get my vote dialed in tomorrow, while I am fine with where it is, I'd go to Datswan very easily.
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Okay, I think the replacement was unnecessarily swift but I guess what's done is done...
You sound kinda like you really miss your awesome scum partner ???
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Okay, I think the replacement was unnecessarily swift but I guess what's done is done...
You sound kinda like you really miss your awesome scum partner ???
The thought occurred but there is no way Robz publicly laments this. This would have been in the QT. I mean, WIFOM, and all, but I am writing it off as spurious transmission.
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vote: datswan
why-sies?
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and welcome to the game Ghacob. Thanks for subbing in.
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actually why-sies in general? Or, less generally - why-sies @ Robz, TWM, Cuzz, PPS?
Just kind of have been told that bc galz died I look bad, and then PPs made something up about space that I didn't say... trying to find a case to defend, but I am having a hard time finding the.... you know case.
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Yo! Some thoughts so far. I had more thoughts than these, but organizing everything proved difficult (not to mention the type of work I'm procrastinating to do this now!) As such I just brought out thoughts on players that I feel are worth considering today tm. I'm definitely less of an analytical player than teproc, so am, for now, defaulting to some of his expertise.
Those alive that are alive, haven't claimed a PR and haven't been confirmed as town by a claimed PR:
2. DatSwan: one of my early 3 scumreads, but I suspect the majority of that is just annoyance from typing quirks. Provided good role analysis, which...I don't know if is alignment indicative
3. faust: one of my early 3 scumreads, mostly because I was swayed by PPS's argument at the "start" of today. Of this I know: still good at mafia
5. mcmcsalot: Teproc really trusted, has analysis I generally agreed with
10. Cuzz: we have a claimed PR claim on Cuzz having done...nothing. Which means... I need to remember more math on that actually indicates
13. LaLight: I have literally 0 information on. Need to reread
1. Robz888: On my first readthrough, I very much appreciated the big stop on further PR claims. Currently/next wondered if such fervor was necessary or even wanted considering the amount of information already out there and not explicitly named (with the exception of exactly datswan I think?)
PPR: 1
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5. mcmcsalot: Teproc really trusted, has analysis I generally agreed with
I think this is a statement indicative of a town state of mind.
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actually why-sies in general? Or, less generally - why-sies @ Robz, TWM, Cuzz, PPS?
Just kind of have been told that bc galz died I look bad, and then PPs made something up about space that I didn't say... trying to find a case to defend, but I am having a hard time finding the.... you know case.
I don't think I ever really had a case on you, but a scummy vibe. But I can try and articulate that if you feel like you "need" to respond to something, which is partially why I find you scummy. You are very zeroed in on why people find you scummy.
One thing that did stand out to me was something similar to what Clems was suspected of:
since we are all doing it here is the quick version:
Clems
Robz
Space
LL
Faust
in that order of preference. although I will also be around.
Having your lynch preferences, when listed, be those that had already received heavy suspicion.Swap out Galz for faust and you have the end of day votes:
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
I don't buy a lot into the you killing Galz thing, especially as a primary motive. But I can see it as a secondary or third motive and one that I think you would not argue against as scum.
This post:
also I was either drunk or sheeping (or both)... druneeping?
unvote
You basically ignored my claim for a long time. It was weird. You were around, but didn't acknolwedge it. I think that is how scum is more likely to react to a weird, unknown situation.
Once you did start to look at it, you were more interested in what I could possibly have claimed. Same with iguana. Feels PR hunty?
And finally, you persistently spell it skum when everyone else spells it scum :)
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I'm not interested in PR hunting. I just want us to make informed decisions that lead to correct lynches.
Starting to feel the DatSwan case though.
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If Teproc were here, he would remind everyone that PR hunting isn't really a thing that scum does.
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I'm not interested in PR hunting. I just want us to make informed decisions that lead to correct lynches.
Starting to feel the DatSwan case though.
Theses two notions contradict each other
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actually why-sies in general? Or, less generally - why-sies @ Robz, TWM, Cuzz, PPS?
Just kind of have been told that bc galz died I look bad, and then PPs made something up about space that I didn't say... trying to find a case to defend, but I am having a hard time finding the.... you know case.
I don't think I ever really had a case on you, but a scummy vibe. But I can try and articulate that if you feel like you "need" to respond to something, which is partially why I find you scummy. You are very zeroed in on why people find you scummy.
One thing that did stand out to me was something similar to what Clems was suspected of:
since we are all doing it here is the quick version:
Clems
Robz
Space
LL
Faust
in that order of preference. although I will also be around.
Having your lynch preferences, when listed, be those that had already received heavy suspicion.Swap out Galz for faust and you have the end of day votes:
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
I don't buy a lot into the you killing Galz thing, especially as a primary motive. But I can see it as a secondary or third motive and one that I think you would not argue against as scum.
This post:
also I was either drunk or sheeping (or both)... druneeping?
unvote
You basically ignored my claim for a long time. It was weird. You were around, but didn't acknolwedge it. I think that is how scum is more likely to react to a weird, unknown situation.
Once you did start to look at it, you were more interested in what I could possibly have claimed. Same with iguana. Feels PR hunty?
And finally, you persistently spell it skum when everyone else spells it scum :)
The most relevant case you made was that i spell skum with a k
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I'm not interested in PR hunting. I just want us to make informed decisions that lead to correct lynches.
Starting to feel the DatSwan case though.
Why?
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Okay, I think the replacement was unnecessarily swift but I guess what's done is done...
Eh, Teproc wasn't around for basically all of D2. There shouldn't be any special treatment.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
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actually why-sies in general? Or, less generally - why-sies @ Robz, TWM, Cuzz, PPS?
Just kind of have been told that bc galz died I look bad, and then PPs made something up about space that I didn't say... trying to find a case to defend, but I am having a hard time finding the.... you know case.
I don't think I ever really had a case on you, but a scummy vibe. But I can try and articulate that if you feel like you "need" to respond to something, which is partially why I find you scummy. You are very zeroed in on why people find you scummy.
One thing that did stand out to me was something similar to what Clems was suspected of:
since we are all doing it here is the quick version:
Clems
Robz
Space
LL
Faust
in that order of preference. although I will also be around.
Having your lynch preferences, when listed, be those that had already received heavy suspicion.Swap out Galz for faust and you have the end of day votes:
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
I don't buy a lot into the you killing Galz thing, especially as a primary motive. But I can see it as a secondary or third motive and one that I think you would not argue against as scum.
This post:
also I was either drunk or sheeping (or both)... druneeping?
unvote
You basically ignored my claim for a long time. It was weird. You were around, but didn't acknolwedge it. I think that is how scum is more likely to react to a weird, unknown situation.
Once you did start to look at it, you were more interested in what I could possibly have claimed. Same with iguana. Feels PR hunty?
And finally, you persistently spell it skum when everyone else spells it scum :)
I think Town players generally dis believe PR claims with no merit provided behind them. Why would i not do that? You stated you had a pr, shares (In my still current opionion) vague and useless info at an un-important junction, and then do the whole “I’m not sharing until others do” bit”.
If it is skummy to push that to oblivion then y’all got a sick set up on me for every game forever bc i don’t think i will ever not push that to the limit as Town.
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I am back, rereading
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From my reread I really want to vote: DatSwan.
I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
Twice asking "why am I skummy" which I do not specifically like. Putting me in Don't want to lynch list is weird. I'd lynch myself here looking at my posts, there's no real reason to not want to lynch me
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What's the vote count?
I grudgingly accept that it's probably not a good idea to lynch PPS today. After all maybe he can investigate again. Or else scum kills him and we don't have to worry.
Vote: LaLight
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Robz's play so far is also yuck. I mean see his signature, but then him having that signature of course also signals that he is aware of that meta and it's really not that hard to emulate as scum.
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Robz's play so far is also yuck. I mean see his signature, but then him having that signature of course also signals that he is aware of that meta and it's really not that hard to emulate as scum.
I am a bit wary of Robz as well.
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Datswan asked to know why I found him scummy and then dismisses everything except the joke at the end. And then asks, immediately after, why iguana finds him scummy.
Hey datswan. That was scummy!
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Nevermind. Saw you did a response.
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Kind of
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this. Could they do it trying to grab towncred? I mean sure, but it's not clear that you will even get towncred from it, and more importantly you have to think about it. Other posts by DatSwan were in a similar fashion I think, but that is the one I remember best.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this.
I guess I don't follow. It seems like a post anyone of any alignment would make in trying to figure what is going on with a role.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this.
I guess I don't follow. It seems like a post anyone of any alignment would make in trying to figure what is going on with a role.
From scum!DatSwan's point of view, either iguana is scum or town, and he knows this (I think technically SK is an option here? Not sure.)
If scum: Then he does not really want to dissect his partner's claim.
If town: Then he already knows that there is some reason for the claim, whatever that may be. So if he makes an argument that iguana's behaviour does not make sense as any town PR, then iguana just has to claim and it's likely that what he says will make sense. So really all this doesn't help mislynching town!iguana. And is scum!DatSwan wants to figure out what iguana's PR is, he's way more likely to do this in his QT.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this. Could they do it trying to grab towncred? I mean sure, but it's not clear that you will even get towncred from it, and more importantly you have to think about it. Other posts by DatSwan were in a similar fashion I think, but that is the one I remember best.
I believe that in Mafia 108 DatSwan did long analytical posts like that as scum.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this. Could they do it trying to grab towncred? I mean sure, but it's not clear that you will even get towncred from it, and more importantly you have to think about it. Other posts by DatSwan were in a similar fashion I think, but that is the one I remember best.
I believe that in Mafia 108 DatSwan did long analytical posts like that as scum.
The point is not that they are long and analytical...
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From my reread I really want to vote: DatSwan.
I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I think it's likely DS would kill Galz, unlikely someone else would do it just to frame DS... I don't think that's something scum would have realized and discussed. I could be wrong on that I guess.
What about killing Galz to frame Faust?
WHy would they do it that way? I'd think mafia would do the opposite--kill faust Night 1 (a "duh" move for mafia) and leave Galz alone to continue to be suspected.
Because the day opened with PPS having this huge fancy readymade case on Faust based on the Galz flip and it looked like he made itnovernight
wait? why is this skummy? I do that all the time as town. I mean I have never like posted it, but if you are town at night what else do you have to do other than re-read based on the lynch flip? skum has a whole freeking channel to talk in? why is it more likely for a pre type to be skummy as opposed to it being a town player posting their insights from a night time re read?
Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
Twice asking "why am I skummy" which I do not specifically like. Putting me in Don't want to lynch list is weird. I'd lynch myself here looking at my posts, there's no real reason to not want to lynch me
1 - I have a reason for asking why people think I am skummy.
2 - I clearly stated why I did not want to lynch you.
3 - I don't know what you are quoting the middle bit for (the convo with robz)
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TWM, important question: did you get a result last night?
Datswan, you are not helping yourself, here.
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TWM, important question: did you get a result last night?
Datswan, you are not helping yourself, here.
What is this in context to?
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TWM, important question: did you get a result last night?
Datswan, you are not helping yourself, here.
What is this in context to?
also did not ask before sorry- he/she/they preference?
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this. Could they do it trying to grab towncred? I mean sure, but it's not clear that you will even get towncred from it, and more importantly you have to think about it. Other posts by DatSwan were in a similar fashion I think, but that is the one I remember best.
I believe that in Mafia 108 DatSwan did long analytical posts like that as scum.
Remember how last game you thought I felt like skum because you thought I was behaving similarly to games where I was skum? ... and then we were both Town?
This is similar to that... with the exception IDK if your Town or Skum yet.
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I don't feel the DatSwan wagon at all. I mean he does things sometimes that I don't tink are particularly helpful, but it all seems to be in a townie mindset.
Whyzies?
Take posts like this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg747416#msg747416). It's such a pointless exercise to do this as scum, and scum knows this. Could they do it trying to grab towncred? I mean sure, but it's not clear that you will even get towncred from it, and more importantly you have to think about it. Other posts by DatSwan were in a similar fashion I think, but that is the one I remember best.
I believe that in Mafia 108 DatSwan did long analytical posts like that as scum.
Remember how last game you thought I felt like skum because you thought I was behaving similarly to games where I was skum? ... and then we were both Town?
This is similar to that... with the exception IDK if your Town or Skum yet.
Fair.
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TWM, important question: did you get a result last night?
I targeted Cuzz last night. That is all I have said regarding the matter.
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From scum!DatSwan's point of view, either iguana is scum or town, and he knows this (I think technically SK is an option here? Not sure.)
If scum: Then he does not really want to dissect his partner's claim.
If town: Then he already knows that there is some reason for the claim, whatever that may be. So if he makes an argument that iguana's behaviour does not make sense as any town PR, then iguana just has to claim and it's likely that what he says will make sense. So really all this doesn't help mislynching town!iguana. And is scum!DatSwan wants to figure out what iguana's PR is, he's way more likely to do this in his QT.
I think you have a valid opinion, but I wonder how much of it is based off what you would do and how much is based off what I would do. I have never used my QT in that manner before. Everything I have to say I would say in thread, but put a town spin on it.
Do we even know if mafia have their own personal QTs this game? Most games I have been I think mafia have a shared QT and that is it. Looking at the rules I don't see any indication that this would be the case.
And I don't agree that iguana's explanation will just make sense and he will be given a pass for it. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I think it an avenue for mafia to potentially explore.
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i will assemble a 10 town vs. 3 scum setup using exclusively the normal roles & modifiers from this list. you can expect there to be less than 6 power roles for town and less than 3 power roles for scum.
One thing I did notice that I hadn't remembered and I think others forgot. We can't have a SK. There are 3 scum and there will be less than 6 power roles, so 5 at most. Robz said something that made it seem like I should not question how many roles are already out there. Currently we have 4 (assuming iguana is a role) with myself, PPS and Galz being added. That leaves one left. So again, still suspicious of iguana and PPS, as should other(s) else that has a town power role, but perhaps not worth revealing yet.
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And at this point, if not Datswan, I am not sure where to go. Avenues for elsewhere have been, well, lacking.
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Space Count
faust (1): pingpongsam
LaLight (2): iguanaiguana, faust
DatSwan (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight
pingpongsam (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
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And at this point, if not Datswan, I am not sure where to go. Avenues for elsewhere have been, well, lacking.
The people on the mislynch wagon from D1 who aren't conf!town or claimed PRs are faust, Cuzz and LL. I think all three are good for further scrutiny.
You opened the day with a vote on Cuzz, but you haven't pushed much more there. Is he someone you'd be able to put together a case on?
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We should lynch LaLight.
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Unlynchability is a scum trait.
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Vote: DatSwan
L-1
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:(
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DatSwan is probably town, guys :(
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And at this point, if not Datswan, I am not sure where to go. Avenues for elsewhere have been, well, lacking.
The people on the mislynch wagon from D1 who aren't conf!town or claimed PRs are faust, Cuzz and LL. I think all three are good for further scrutiny.
You opened the day with a vote on Cuzz, but you haven't pushed much more there. Is he someone you'd be able to put together a case on?
Everything from him was based off Day 1, and frankly excluding the fact that he was on wagon day. I haven't gotten the same feelings today.
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Starting to feel the DatSwan case though.
?
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We should lynch LaLight.
I looked back and haven't seen you give a single reason to lynch Lalight since Day 1, where you said he was insincere and opportunistic. Which I remember dismissing because it was completely vague and subjective.
Now you are only pushing because he is hard to lynch. But so is everyone else that isn't Clems at this point.
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Seems like scum is among the 5 voting DatSwan for sure. His wagon looks scummy, so he's probably town.
LaLight hasn't done much of anything towny or scummy. He's played it safe, a classic scum tactic. And the fact that people ignore the calls to lynch him indicates he has partners.
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DatSwan said a few scummyish things but Faust is right, he's thinking like a town. PPS, Robz and LaLight are all a bit scummy so his wagon is rotten.
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Vote count 2.5
DatSwan (5): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam
LaLight (2): iguanaiguana, faust
pingpongsam (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Ghacob
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends tuesday, february 27th at 22:00 forum time
mod notes
- Fidget Spinner
- deadline extended
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We should lynch LaLight.
I am Town.
This is a lazy case from Town, and a well set up case from Skum.
I guess I will try to read back and get some more insights in, but at this point I am going to go with LL because a small chance skum lynch is still better than a 100% town lynch.
Vote: LaLight
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Unlynchable equals scum, though...
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We should lynch LaLight.
I am Town.
This is a lazy case from Town, and a well set up case from Skum.
Which is which then?
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Prod mcmc
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F's LaLight pushed Galz and Clem. The case is obvious .
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F's LaLight pushed Galz and Clem. The case is obvious .
Being wrong about two townies isn't always scummy. Sometimes it is just bad reads. I pushed Galz and Clem and am not scum. That argument isn't going to fly with me.
You seem desperate to not lynch DatSwan, who you previously said you were becoming suspicious of.
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I could lynch DS, or faust, or I guess LaLight.
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F's LaLight pushed Galz and Clem. The case is obvious .
Being wrong about two townies isn't always scummy. Sometimes it is just bad reads. I pushed Galz and Clem and am not scum. That argument isn't going to fly with me.
You seem desperate to not lynch DatSwan, who you previously said you were becoming suspicious of.
I gave you all the reasons, what more do you want?
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I’m here will catch up in the morning.
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We should lynch LaLight.
I am Town.
This is a lazy case from Town, and a well set up case from Skum.
Which is which then?
Idk. I guess the upside of my lynch would be it would help narrow that down.
Also i am going into defense mode - because i will not make the same mistake SC made D1.
TWM has a lot of weird wagon action surrounding him, but does not necessarily make him skummY.
Faust and II have all the reason in the world to hammer me so that looks towny af.
...
Playing another game right now. Not singling them out will do more in a sec
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DatSwan said a few scummyish things but Faust is right, he's thinking like a town. PPS, Robz and LaLight are all a bit scummy so his wagon is rotten.
This iguana knows what he's talking about!
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Unlynchable equals scum, though...
DatSwan is unlynchable because he hasn't been lynched 1 hour after you put him to L-1?
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I would love to get some more input from Ghacob before this day is over.
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F's LaLight pushed Galz and Clem. The case is obvious .
I never pushed Galz. Also your tunneling is weird
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Unlynchable equals scum, though...
DatSwan is unlynchable because he hasn't been lynched 1 hour after you put him to L-1?
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Unlynchable equals scum, though...
DatSwan is unlynchable because he hasn't been lynched 1 hour after you put him to L-1?
No, I’m saying not to worry about the L-1 because it won’t go through because he is scum. It’s been many hours now. I am hopeful the deadline will make the lynch happen so we actually get scum. Whether or not ther is bussing to get it will be the real question. Make no mistake, I’d much rather lynch you but I feel pretty good about you and swan being partners. Granted, it may be all confirmation bias but I’ve yet to see anything to dissuade me from the idea.
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Unlynchable equals scum, though...
DatSwan is unlynchable because he hasn't been lynched 1 hour after you put him to L-1?
No, I’m saying not to worry about the L-1 because it won’t go through because he is scum. It’s been many hours now. I am hopeful the deadline will make the lynch happen so we actually get scum. Whether or not ther is bussing to get it will be the real question. Make no mistake, I’d much rather lynch you but I feel pretty good about you and swan being partners. Granted, it may be all confirmation bias but I’ve yet to see anything to dissuade me from the idea.
Is this meant to be satire?
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Whatever, I am a fan of this from a Town perspective. We should know who we are willing to put up for lynch and not. Here is my list:
Happy to Lynch:
1) pingpongsam
2) Teproc
3) iguanaiguana
4) Cuzz
Will lynch if needed:
1) Robz
2) MCMC
3) TWM
4) Faust
Don't Want to Lynch:
1) LaLight
2) Space
3) Swan - Including myself to make sure not to confuse anyone.
So I have learned over time posts like this definitely help scum more than town but I frequently do it as town and not as scum. I think its a town thought "lets get our collective ideas out in plain view" and a scum benefit "who's town that people are willing to lynch".
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Datswan Case
This is a really good case.
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What's the vote count?
I grudgingly accept that it's probably not a good idea to lynch PPS today. After all maybe he can investigate again. Or else scum kills him and we don't have to worry.
Vote: LaLight
First scum read of faust for the game. I am just noticing faust has been somewhaty pushing pps which I was all for lynching yesterday but yea with the claim we probably shouldn't and this seems like "crap my partner datswan is getting heat and my pps case is going nowhere, mcmc isn't helping me with it lets pivot to lurky/scummy lalight"
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My intention is to vote datswan before deadline but I still have a lalight/twm/datswan reread to do plus midway through a faust reread.
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FWIW I may be coming back around to the DatSwan case. Def better than no lynch. I am glad I tried for an alternative wagon though. It gives us something to assess after today ends.
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I would love to get some more input from Ghacob before this day is over.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot more stuff they should be covering, especially because their last-but-one post specifically said they had more thoughts that hadn't made it onto that post.
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Datswan is dat scum.
Faust is dat other scum.
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I'm going to be around off an on for the next ~hour, then I'm asleep till after deadline.
I could hammer DS to avoid a no-lynch, but mcmc has already posted intent, and wanted more time for re-reads, so that might be unhelpful. Is anyone else around just now?
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I am!
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I am!
Well you're the leader of the Swan wagon, and have already stated that you don't really see other options, even Cuzz, who you seemed keen on earlier. Did I ever ask specifically what your position on Robz is, just for reference?
Also, what's your feeling about general discussion of who people might want to target with all those PRs that seem to be out there? ISTR you're usually strongly in favour of of leaving that to the individual, but do you feel there might be any merit in avoiding having people target the same obvious people?
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I am!
Well you're the leader of the Swan wagon, and have already stated that you don't really see other options, even Cuzz, who you seemed keen on earlier. Did I ever ask specifically what your position on Robz is, just for reference?
Also, what's your feeling about general discussion of who people might want to target with all those PRs that seem to be out there? ISTR you're usually strongly in favour of of leaving that to the individual, but do you feel there might be any merit in avoiding having people target the same obvious people?
I mean feel free to share.
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I am!
Well you're the leader of the Swan wagon, and have already stated that you don't really see other options, even Cuzz, who you seemed keen on earlier. Did I ever ask specifically what your position on Robz is, just for reference?
It isn't so much that I don't see other options as that I haven't seen good arguments or reasons for other options. There has just been a "what about X" without anything supporting a move in that direction. I am not going to move from what I think is a decent to good vote to one that is based off nothing more than questionable "gut reads."
Robz falls into that category. Those proposing him haven't offered any really good reason to go for him, but he hasn't done anything to stand out as extremely townie either.
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Also, what's your feeling about general discussion of who people might want to target with all those PRs that seem to be out there? ISTR you're usually strongly in favour of of leaving that to the individual, but do you feel there might be any merit in avoiding having people target the same obvious people?
To answer this, i am very much in favor of town PRs reacting and deciding for themselves. If that means PPS or iguana (whatever his role is) want to solicit advice they are free to do so and if they think that is best then they should do so.
Personally I am not soliciting any advice and any given will be promptly dismissed by me unless there is a strong compelling argument associated with it. Even then I am not likely to publicly state that I would be following said advice.
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Datswan is dat scum.
Faust is dat other scum.
What if your wrong about me. Does that effect your Faust read?
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Here didn’t get to the reread. Not happy about the inactivity after my intent to hammer. Scum should have made more of a scramble.
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Datswan Case
This is a really good case.
I would like to point out the reasons for the list is to
1) help town coordinate
2) make it easy on town to look back on wagon analysis
Unfortunately on this look, people are choosing to look at it through bias goggles so the only thing people are noticing are my actions and what they mean. I would suggest, since if i flip i will flip town, and your gonna have to do it anyways... read these “good cases” on me under the assumption i am town. Spoiler: they make more sense from that perspective :P
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Here didn’t get to the reread. Not happy about the inactivity after my intent to hammer. Scum should have made more of a scramble.
Hm what could that mean about the people that are currently on me?
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IDK I hope he's scum but I still feel better about LaLight so I'm not gonna touch this.
If DatSwan is town and I die, yall should lynch LL tomorrow.
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DatSwan what's your read on the game state?
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Oh wait McMc is not going to hammer? That changes things!
We should lynch LL
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We should lynch LL
I haven't seen good arguments or reasons for other options. There has just been a "what about X" without anything supporting a move in that direction. I am not going to move from what I think is a decent to good vote to one that is based off nothing more than questionable "gut reads."
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I would vote lalight over datswan, iguana would, robz would to get a lynch(if here) as he mentioned that. Anyone else?
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I want to lynch DS. Now.
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I would vote lalight over datswan, iguana would, robz would to get a lynch(if here) as he mentioned that. Anyone else?
I would consider providing sufficient justification were given to prompt a move from a lynch I like to a lynch I see little current value in.
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I would vote lalight over datswan, iguana would, robz would to get a lynch(if here) as he mentioned that. Anyone else?
I would consider providing sufficient justification were given to prompt a move from a lynch I like to a lynch I see little current value in.
QFT
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I would vote lalight over datswan, iguana would, robz would to get a lynch(if here) as he mentioned that. Anyone else?
I would consider providing sufficient justification were given to prompt a move from a lynch I like to a lynch I see little current value in.
QFT
WTF
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Ugh, I still think pps and space are scum.
vote: datswan
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Ugh, I still think pps and space are scum.
vote: datswan
Good job lynching scum bro.
(DAMA.)
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Was hoping for a flip before I have to get to sleep but I have to get to sleep.
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:( hope ur scum tho
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Ugh, I still think pps and space are scum.
vote: datswan
Good job lynching scum bro.
(DAMA.)
(DAMA.)
Will you be the iroh to my and katlins Zuko? (Minus the horrible azulon stuff)
Also I find you townie, your posts today especially. If I die reread me, if you die I’ll promise the same anything else you would want to say?
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:( hope ur scum tho
So for real guano, why is lalight scum?
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Ugh, I still think pps and space are scum.
vote: datswan
Good job lynching scum bro.
(DAMA.)
(DAMA.)
Will you be the iroh to my and katlins Zuko? (Minus the horrible azulon stuff)
Also I find you townie, your posts today especially. If I die reread me, if you die I’ll promise the same anything else you would want to say?
I'm not even worth rereading!
Funny story, just LAST NIGHT Carrie and I were DAMA watching TV and we got emotional and put on Avatar and wow this feels weird to talk about in public but there it is!
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VT guys :/
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VT guys :/
Ugh okay give me your no thoughts off the cuff reads, no thoughts no worry of how you look gommie some gut reads!
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TWM shouldn’t look skummy for pushing me like this but the people that joined right behind him should be looked at closely.
II subtly claiming IC in posts is still super suspicious to me.
I am aleays wrong about Faust so not even trying
I agree you will find skum in PPS/Space
More coming
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LL looks worse by association, just because other wagon and I’m Town and yadda yadda. But worth remembering.
Robz is probably skum. Last few days of interactions Vs me seems skummy.
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thread loq'd
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D2 Final Vote Count
DatSwan (6): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam, mcmcsalot
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, faust, DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): Ghacob
with 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch
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https://youtu.be/wgI8xWUau00?t=33s (https://youtu.be/wgI8xWUau00?t=33s)
we didn't sleep too late
there was a fire in the yard
all of the trees were in light
they had no faces to show
i saw a sign in the sky
seven swans, seven swans, seven swans
i heard a voice in my mind
i'll try, i'll try, i'll try
i'll try, i'll try, i'll try
DatSwan has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IORrrnkXgk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IORrrnkXgk4)
woo woo woo woo woo woo woo
woo hoo hoooooo
night 2 starts now and ends friday, march 2nd at 00:00 forum time.
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https://youtu.be/jkkpHDX_Cvg?t=49s (https://youtu.be/jkkpHDX_Cvg?t=49s)
for my prayer has always been love
what did i do, to deserve this?
SpaceAnemone has died in the night! they were generosity, a town 1-shot cop!
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https://youtu.be/lJJT00wqlOo?t=2m35s (https://youtu.be/lJJT00wqlOo?t=2m35s)
i should have known better
nothing can be changed
the past is still the past, a bridge to nowhere
i shoulda wrote a letter (shoulda wrote a letter)
explaining what i feel, that empty feeling
Day 3 Starts!
Vote count 3.0
not voting (9): Robz888, faust, mcmcsalot, Ghacob, pingpongsam, iguanaiguana, Cuzz, The_Wine_Merchant, LaLight
with 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends friday, march 9th at 03:00 forum time. thread unlettered.
mod notes
- just submitted a Large Ass application that has received much dwelling in the last months
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This started late :( n.b. mod notes
It's an interesting turn of events... Space flips Cop, and PPS claimed a Cop result on them? I am confused.
Also I think Space will have investigated already, right? Let's see if I can figure out the target.
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Okay, so I'm kind of suspicious of TWM, and the suspicions have developed in parallel to the stuff faust posted earlier, because I did a bit of wagon-gazing before catching up with the more recent posts.
Okay, so this is the first read. Immediately followed by a case. I guess Vote: TWM seems good.
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Vote: Robz
That's better than my TWM vote for now. I'm leaning towards giving the three claimed town PRs a pass for D2.
Okay, this is just weird. If Space had a scum result, I don't see them letting this go. On the other hand, I found no other instance of Space professing a strong read.
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We may also need a full claim from PPS, because right now I have trouble believing that there are 3 investigative roles in the game.
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I am a modified cop. I’m not ready to divulge my modification. It seems reasonable to have more than 1 cop considering the modifications. Most importantly my modification isn’t weak or insane or anything like that. It has to do with when or how many shots I have similar to Space. At this point in time I’d like to not claim if I took action last night.
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Okay, so I'm kind of suspicious of TWM, and the suspicions have developed in parallel to the stuff faust posted earlier, because I did a bit of wagon-gazing before catching up with the more recent posts.
Okay, so this is the first read. Immediately followed by a case. I guess Vote: TWM seems good.
What? You think if space had a scum result they wouldn't just out and say so at some point in the day and let us mislynch datswan in the process? This seems like a really dumb error coming from you.
It is blatantly obvious that if space used their power it was to get a town result on someone. Chek their town reads, especially ones that changed from day one to day two. That is where you will who they investigated.
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Vote: Robz
That's better than my TWM vote for now. I'm leaning towards giving the three claimed town PRs a pass for D2.
Okay, this is just weird. If Space had a scum result, I don't see them letting this go. On the other hand, I found no other instance of Space professing a strong read.
There you go. Maybe didn't use or investigated Galz?
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We may also need a full claim from PPS, because right now I have trouble believing that there are 3 investigative roles in the game.
Also. I think we should mass claim. We have reached our critical mass of PRs, supposing iguana is one, of 5. If any other PRs are out there then someone is lying.
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Okay, so I'm kind of suspicious of TWM, and the suspicions have developed in parallel to the stuff faust posted earlier, because I did a bit of wagon-gazing before catching up with the more recent posts.
Okay, so this is the first read. Immediately followed by a case. I guess Vote: TWM seems good.
What? You think if space had a scum result they wouldn't just out and say so at some point in the day and let us mislynch datswan in the process? This seems like a really dumb error coming from you.
It is blatantly obvious that if space used their power it was to get a town result on someone. Chek their town reads, especially ones that changed from day one to day two. That is where you will who they investigated.
Well, I tried, but I found very little in terms of town reads. And not using the Cop N1 would be enormously silly, and I trust Space to not do such a mistake.
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We may also need a full claim from PPS, because right now I have trouble believing that there are 3 investigative roles in the game.
Also. I think we should mass claim. We have reached our critical mass of PRs, supposing iguana is one, of 5. If any other PRs are out there then someone is lying.
I don't particularly like assuming that iguana is a PR for no reason in order to lead us into an unnecessary massclaim.
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Vote: Robz
That's better than my TWM vote for now. I'm leaning towards giving the three claimed town PRs a pass for D2.
Okay, this is just weird. If Space had a scum result, I don't see them letting this go. On the other hand, I found no other instance of Space professing a strong read.
There you go. Maybe didn't use or investigated Galz?
Hmm. Galzria as a target is an option I guess. Would make sense given the suspicion he had.
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But there is this bit from D1:
I think Galz sounds relatively townie, as I've said before. I'm scumreading Robz for his reaction to Galz, which is not at all the same thing.
I guess Space could have changed their mind after the flip? Hm. I don't know what else to think at least. It seems we just are particularly unlucky.
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We may also need a full claim from PPS, because right now I have trouble believing that there are 3 investigative roles in the game.
Also. I think we should mass claim. We have reached our critical mass of PRs, supposing iguana is one, of 5. If any other PRs are out there then someone is lying.
I don't particularly like assuming that iguana is a PR for no reason in order to lead us into an unnecessary massclaim.
How about we massclaim because if we mislynch tomorrow will be Lylo and we won't be able to trust results.
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We may also need a full claim from PPS, because right now I have trouble believing that there are 3 investigative roles in the game.
Also. I think we should mass claim. We have reached our critical mass of PRs, supposing iguana is one, of 5. If any other PRs are out there then someone is lying.
I don't particularly like assuming that iguana is a PR for no reason in order to lead us into an unnecessary massclaim.
How about we massclaim because if we mislynch tomorrow will be Lylo and we won't be able to trust results.
I mean, if anyone has any more results, then by all means, please share. I just assumed that isn't the case seeing that we have 2 dead and 1 claimed investigative role already. I just don't see how we benefit from outing Docs etc. now; it's not like it's impossible for scum to lie before LyLo.
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I guess I should change my vote too. Vote: PPS
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Well, blargh.
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hey really sorry I got really far behind on this game and am trying to catch up, but I really really do not see why faust is out of the gate immediately voting for two claimed PRs when we've had two mislynches and are in a not so great spot.
I never did get around to my planned full reread of faust but he has generally been rubbing me the wrong for much of the game. town!faust is a slick scumhunter and digs for evidence and builds cases on people and pushes them and I just do not see much of that this game. combined with the above it's time for a vote: faust
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Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"
[wrong things]
I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?
I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be
vote: PPS
@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?
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I dunno if we massclaim we might have more data on whether to trust PPS.
Probably no one has any ivesrigative results though.
I need to reread and do vote analysis with the colors colored in.
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hey really sorry I got really far behind on this game and am trying to catch up, but I really really do not see why faust is out of the gate immediately voting for two claimed PRs when we've had two mislynches and are in a not so great spot.
I never did get around to my planned full reread of faust but he has generally been rubbing me the wrong for much of the game. town!faust is a slick scumhunter and digs for evidence and builds cases on people and pushes them and I just do not see much of that this game. combined with the above it's time for a vote: faust
Uh. You have 7 days to get a reread in. I mean. Sure Faust might be a good vote, but why just give up on the idea of retreading him?
Seems a bit hypocritical when you call him out for jumping the gun. Although a bit different since his are claimed roles.
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Tonight's homework for myself was a Teproc re-read. Only 26 game posts so far, so it wasn't too taxing, but it also wasn't very conclusive. My reason for wanting to target him was that along with TWM, he was in scummy-looking places on the Galz wagon, given that we also know SirClemems flipped town.
Possible space target, but the need to reread is weird and thus not definitive.
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Okay, so vague stuff that some people are going to hate because it's based on conclusions you can only draw by conditioning on knowing I'm town.
Anyway, this game's D1 wagons/vote patterns actually look a little unusual, in that we already have enough green spread out across wagons, and with wagons on the greens, to narrow down the possibilities for a scum bus quite considerably. By this I mean that colouring only me, SirClemens and Galz green and leaving everyone else uncoloured gives quite a more-limited-than-usual range of uncoloured-on-uncoloured voting.
Now, not all scums or scumteams like to bus, but it would be really unusual not to have seen any bussing at all over D1, so there are already quite interesting conclusions to draw there. Lots of possibilities involving LL (like LL-Teproc), and also some Cuzz-Swan stuff. True, there's nothing concrete that we can draw from it yet, but nor can scum retroactively fix up their voting patterns, so I think it's safe enough to mention. It'll be interesting to come back to it when a few more names can be coloured in, at the very least.
Good post from space to come back to. Need to fill in with green per their thoughts now that we know they are town
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Conspiracy theory time:
Wondering is space tried to use power but was blocked? I agree with faust that not using power immediately is weird as it at least bread crumbing the result.
Possibly implicates PPS if role blocker and knew space was town, as scum, and claimed out of fear of tracker. But watcher was already dead so seems unnecessary.
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- teproc has about a half hour to post
And then what?
i make a post in mafia hub like "i need a replacement for teproc in m113,, thanks!"
I mean I'm sure he'll show up, he's a very reliable player. I wouldn't worry about replacement.
The issue isn't about whether or not he will turn up, it's the fact that he hasn't posted a single thing in more than four days.
That's four days of voting, interactions, wagon analysis and POE stuff that we're already missing.
Ok. I think space certainly did not get a result on teproc
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I am!
Well you're the leader of the Swan wagon, and have already stated that you don't really see other options, even Cuzz, who you seemed keen on earlier. Did I ever ask specifically what your position on Robz is, just for reference?
Also, what's your feeling about general discussion of who people might want to target with all those PRs that seem to be out there? ISTR you're usually strongly in favour of of leaving that to the individual, but do you feel there might be any merit in avoiding having people target the same obvious people?
Or maybe space saved the shot? This seems like they wanted guideance on how to use their shot?
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And I hunk Vote: lalight given that cases have been bad so far, so maybe other players guts are better?
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Tonight's homework for myself was a Teproc re-read. Only 26 game posts so far, so it wasn't too taxing, but it also wasn't very conclusive. My reason for wanting to target him was that along with TWM, he was in scummy-looking places on the Galz wagon, given that we also know SirClemems flipped town.
Possible space target, but the need to reread is weird and thus not definitive.
This might be legit actually. And I don't think the other post you quoted rules it out.
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Yeah there was a good chance Space used the shot last night. Pretty interesting kill, given that they claimed nothing and others did claim PRs.
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Yeah there was a good chance Space used the shot last night. Pretty interesting kill, given that they claimed nothing and others did claim PRs.
Adds validity to PPS's claim. Or at least makes it appear that way. One of those WIFOM situations that are basically impossible to untangle.
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I guess if he is town, they can't shoot him without ICing Space, so shoot Space first. But if he's scum, then shooting Space is a good way to take heat off himself.
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The frame up is clear. Kill space then insinuate I was scum faking a result so I get mislynched the next day. Problem solved. Why would I have bothered faking a result on space at all, though?
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IDK dude you're pretty scummy
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The frame up is clear. Kill space then insinuate I was scum faking a result so I get mislynched the next day. Problem solved. Why would I have bothered faking a result on space at all, though?
But who is framing you? No one so far.
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IDK dude you're pretty scummy
Really, what’s the case?
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The frame up is clear. Kill space then insinuate I was scum faking a result so I get mislynched the next day. Problem solved. Why would I have bothered faking a result on space at all, though?
But who is framing you? No one so far.
What do you call this, then?
I guess if he is town, they can't shoot him without ICing Space, so shoot Space first. But if he's scum, then shooting Space is a good way to take heat off himself.
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The frame up is clear. Kill space then insinuate I was scum faking a result so I get mislynched the next day. Problem solved. Why would I have bothered faking a result on space at all, though?
But who is framing you? No one so far.
What do you call this, then?
I guess if he is town, they can't shoot him without ICing Space, so shoot Space first. But if he's scum, then shooting Space is a good way to take heat off himself.
Uh. Discussing possible hypotheticals? That is what players do. Speculate at what happened and try and figure out which is more likely. I see iguana and me putting forward ideas, including one of you being town. But I don't think either of us have reached a conclusion.
But your reaction is far more scummy than any hypothetical.
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I think PPS should claim
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I think PPS should claim
I did claim. Why are you so invested in knowing the limits of my power?
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The frame up is clear. Kill space then insinuate I was scum faking a result so I get mislynched the next day. Problem solved. Why would I have bothered faking a result on space at all, though?
But who is framing you? No one so far.
What do you call this, then?
I guess if he is town, they can't shoot him without ICing Space, so shoot Space first. But if he's scum, then shooting Space is a good way to take heat off himself.
Uh. Discussing possible hypotheticals? That is what players do. Speculate at what happened and try and figure out which is more likely. I see iguana and me putting forward ideas, including one of you being town. But I don't think either of us have reached a conclusion.
But your reaction is far more scummy than any hypothetical.
No, iguana’s hypothetical is equally applicable if I am scum in the first instance as well. There is no positive assertion being made that I am town.
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Can someone notify me when PPS's ego-show is over?
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OOoOoOoOoKKkKkkKkKKeeEEeEeEEe
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Yo Lalight, mcmcs, y'all got anything to say?
Yo Robz, you got anything of substance to say?
Cuzz, anything else you've got for input?
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
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Sorry, weekends. Be there soon. Think killing space is framing of pps or his sly turn
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
It's hiding behind vagueness like this that allows scum to not be confronted , while also not providing town with the resources that can be used for good scumhunting
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
It's hiding behind vagueness like this that allows scum to not be confronted , while also not providing town with the resources that can be used for good scumhunting
Yes, that is my point against a PR/VT claim.
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I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
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I will catch up soon
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.
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.
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Vote count 3.1
pingpongsam (2): faust, Ghacob
faust (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): The_Wine_Merchant
not voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, iguanaiguana, LaLight
with 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 starts ends friday, march 9th at 03:00 forum time.
mod notes
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Day 1 End of Day
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Other vote counts:
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, Teproc, faust, SirClemens
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Sir Clemons (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (1): Galzria
Galzria (4): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant, Teproc
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (3): Cuzz, faust, DatSwan
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Teproc (1): LaLight
not voting (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, SirClemens
Robz (1): SpaceAnemone
Sir Clemons (2): faust, DatSwan
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Teproc
Teproc (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
not voting (1): Galzria
Day 2 End of Day:
DatSwan (6): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam, mcmcsalot
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, faust, DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): Ghacob
Other vote counts
faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust
not voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc, Cuzz, SpaceAnemone
The_Wine_Merchant (4): faust, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
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Posting the above to shed some information. I am not super great at drawing info out of these things, but maybe others will. I want to find Lalight and Cuzz suspicious for being on both wagons, but can't really given that I am as well. Well I can, but understand that others might find me as well, which is fine, but have to understand it isn't indicative of being scum unless the scum team is LaLight/Cuzz/TWM.
Something I just thought of as I was going through the vote counts was how absent mcmc has been. I feel like that is a scum trait from him. Being super active early and then basically disappearing later. I fee like that is what he did in my first game where I was scum with him.
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Or maybe not. Looking at the game, M91, and searching for him doesn't really reveal what I had remembered.
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Hate to beat a dead horse, but ALL is definitely scummy for being on both wagons, and being an alternative wagon D2 that didn't get any real traction. I know I haven't argued for my scum read on him very eloquently, and I believe that is why not all town have been convinced and scum doesn't feel pressured to bus.
But today the evidence should be stronger than ever.
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Hate to beat a dead horse, but ALL LaLight is definitely scummy for being on both wagons, and being an alternative wagon D2 that didn't get any real traction. I know I haven't argued for my scum read on him very eloquently, and I believe that is why not all town have been convinced and scum doesn't feel pressured to bus.
But today the evidence should be stronger than ever.
For clarity because it definitely took me far longer than I would have liked to figure out who you meant
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Yeah sorry my phone tends to autocorrect LL to ALL :/
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The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.
I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.
Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though. There's 3 scum out there, super unlikely both of them are town.
Vote: PPS
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Posting the above to shed some information. I am not super great at drawing info out of these things, but maybe others will. I want to find Lalight and Cuzz suspicious for being on both wagons, but can't really given that I am as well. Well I can, but understand that others might find me as well, which is fine, but have to understand it isn't indicative of being scum unless the scum team is LaLight/Cuzz/TWM.
Something I just thought of as I was going through the vote counts was how absent mcmc has been. I feel like that is a scum trait from him. Being super active early and then basically disappearing later. I fee like that is what he did in my first game where I was scum with him.
If you want others to draw info from this, maybe don't try to influence them by coloring yourself green.
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I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.
I didn't by the end of D1, but I feel like I have to reevaluate.
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It's in VLA, but I thought I should mention here as well that I'll be on a conference until Wednesday and won't have much, if any, time to post then.
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Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
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Posting the above to shed some information. I am not super great at drawing info out of these things, but maybe others will. I want to find Lalight and Cuzz suspicious for being on both wagons, but can't really given that I am as well. Well I can, but understand that others might find me as well, which is fine, but have to understand it isn't indicative of being scum unless the scum team is LaLight/Cuzz/TWM.
Something I just thought of as I was going through the vote counts was how absent mcmc has been. I feel like that is a scum trait from him. Being super active early and then basically disappearing later. I fee like that is what he did in my first game where I was scum with him.
If you want others to draw info from this, maybe don't try to influence them by coloring yourself green.
I colored myself lime green for that exact reason. I want to use it for my own purposes first and foremost.
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Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
I have been advocating for a mass claim. And we haven't been as suspicious as you. That is how voting works.
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vote: lalight
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Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
I have been advocating for a mass claim. And we haven't been as suspicious as you. That is how voting works.
This is BS because if you were really about claiming you have done so yourself. In fact, you specifically stated that I should full claim even though my role power is known which strongly suggests to me that you simply want to what degree of threat I remain to you and your team.
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*want to know...
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I agree with massclaim. I know votes on me are because of my lack of presence and sincerely apologize about it. My opinion on pps is simple: either he killed Space to confirm his PR and this is too scummy or Space was killed to frame pps' actions scummy. Not sure what to think about it. I still scumread faust, but can't point a finger onto any particular actions of his. I think II is town, all the others behave like scum
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vote: faust
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if you want to lynch me, well, fine, but let's massclaim first. Or, as it has been said, we will face LyLo tomorrow with no trust into any claim
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Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
I have been advocating for a mass claim. And we haven't been as suspicious as you. That is how voting works.
This is BS because if you were really about claiming you have done so yourself. In fact, you specifically stated that I should full claim even though my role power is known which strongly suggests to me that you simply want to what degree of threat I remain to you and your team.
Then vote for me, if you think I am scum.
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We should definitely massclaim before our lynch today. All the hidden information from scum in the world won't help us if it's lylo tomorrow
Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
That is very odd. I'd like to discuss this after claims happen
I'm still not swayed by the idea that simply VT/PR claims won't help out immensely
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We should definitely massclaim before our lynch today. All the hidden information from scum in the world won't help us if it's lylo tomorrow
Nobody finds it odd that the one mostly claimed PR is pressured to full claim and has the wagon while the other claimants remain silent with no pressure and no votes?
That is very odd. I'd like to discuss this after claims happen
I'm still not swayed by the idea that simply VT/PR claims won't help out immensely
I personally think you are the most townie in the game and would be fine with you organizing claim order. But I imagine you will receive headstrong opposition from faust that may prevent it from being followed though.
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Let's not have Faust's opposition dictate the game
Maybe he's actually town this time but he's not the towniest player in the game by a longshot.
I agree that Ghacob could make an order. But I don't 100% agree we need to do one. I think we would see a lot of VET claims and then scum will know who to shoot.
PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.
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Let's not have Faust's opposition dictate the game
Maybe he's actually town this time but he's not the towniest player in the game by a longshot.
I agree that Ghacob could make an order. But I don't 100% agree we need to do one. I think we would see a lot of VET claims and then scum will know who to shoot.
PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.
I haven't seen the case on LL but I've seen lots of weak movement in his direction. If the case is presupposed on me being his partner then that might explain why I am not seeing what you're seeing, though. I would much rather see us lynch LL than myself, though.
That said, what's the difference between a scum rolecop and a town cop behavior?
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Um the way your result came with a big readymade case on Faust and then the extremity of your defensiveness after people have been suspecting the case and suspecting you. The way you and LL have been pushing cases on town people all game doesn't help either.
I think there is plenty of condemning evidence for either of you individually to lynch either of you and then yeah your play would be consistent with being scum partners.
I could be wrong! But I don't see any kind of evidence compelling enough to push me to vote somewhere else.
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I am immensely opposed to the mass claim. I do not see what it does to help town.
PPS has already said that his modification has to do with timing/shots not sanity ect. so knowing when/if he can shoot gives us nothing the only thing is that there is potentially a cop result he has from tonight he is not telling us. I seriously doubt he is holding on to a result, unless its a town result on someone not in trouble of getting lynched. He is likely one shot and out or odd night and couldn't do anything last night lets not let scum know which one.
TWM has claimed nothing of substance. Actually really interesting here, TWM claimed to have used a pr on cuzz night one. One could assume he has another something he used last night. Two potential results that we actually don't know about. TWM's usage of pr hasn't led to a definitive stance on cuzz either way. Curious TWM is pushing for the massclaim big time But as I have pointed out literally zero town reason for PPS to claim more than he has, if you really think we should claim you should just claim.
Iguana has just said this
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
So he has a role, it could even be a vt "role". Again this is a situation of iguana if you have results that are relevant, maybe think about claiming them, if not don't worry about it. I don't see why iguana telling us what he is now is manifestly different than tomorrow. All people have said is we can trust claims more today than tomorrow, but I don't really know thats true, if iguana is scum he has planned some type of fake claim since the beginning and I don't see how town benefits forcing scum!iguana to fake claim today instead of tomorrow.
Galz even night watcher
Space one shot cop
Clem and swan flipped vt
So yes we have our 5 potential prs already pseudo claimed.
From all this as I said there is no reason for pps to claim and I'm not sure I care about forcing iguana to claim. TWM on the other hand I actually wouldn't mind getting his claim. I have some thoughts I want to keep to myself for now about what TWM based on what he has done
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My reason for wanting to claim is that right now while I have reads they are basically just pure speculation. I have nothing very good to go off and what I thought was decent yesterday ended up garbage. And my estimation of other players' reads are the same. Speculation on nothing substantial. Claiming gives us something to work with and hopefully use. Maybe it won't. But at this point I think if we don't change how we are playing the game nothing will change and we will lose.
I am very pessimistic of us being able to get a lynch correct or tomorrow without something better to guide us. I have stated that I am happy to claim, but I am not going to claim fully by myself because I feel that my claiming alone is more harmful than claiming as a group. I partially claimed to save myself from a lynch. That was accomplished, but didn't fully claim for a reason and again am unlikely to do so unless it is with the participation of others.
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...
PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.
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That said, what's the difference between a scum rolecop and a town cop behavior?
Oh sweet goodness this is some scummy whatnot. I think II may be onto something here. Vote: pps
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L-1?
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unvote
shit sorry that was L-1 and I didn't mean to do that
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so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing
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so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing
A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.
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First towny stuffs I've seen from Cuzz in a while!
Although if I were PPS' partner I might do something just like what Cuzz did.............................
Cuzz doesn't look so great with his wagon history, but his posts look towny to me. That's my opinion of Cuzz : )
Does anyone know if he's a good liar?
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so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing
A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.
Yeah. I was a bit tempted to hammer as town. But would never in a million years think of doing it as scum.
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so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing
A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.
Except we at f.ds have a fantastically abysmal history of not lynching people who derphammer the next day, fake or otherwise.
I've faked more than one derphammer with the confidence that I can talk my way out of getting lynched.
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My reason for wanting to claim is that right now while I have reads they are basically just pure speculation. I have nothing very good to go off and what I thought was decent yesterday ended up garbage. And my estimation of other players' reads are the same. Speculation on nothing substantial. Claiming gives us something to work with and hopefully use. Maybe it won't. But at this point I think if we don't change how we are playing the game nothing will change and we will lose.
I am very pessimistic of us being able to get a lynch correct or tomorrow without something better to guide us. I have stated that I am happy to claim, but I am not going to claim fully by myself because I feel that my claiming alone is more harmful than claiming as a group. I partially claimed to save myself from a lynch. That was accomplished, but didn't fully claim for a reason and again am unlikely to do so unless it is with the participation of others.
So I see what you are trying to say but it doesn't track. From your perspective, the only possible hidden information is what iguana's role is and if there is another pr hanging out somewhere. And if iguana has results that are relevant, I think he should share them, if there is another pr that has relevant results, they should share. Other than that what help do you town!TWM get from a massclaim, nothing. Scum!TWM gets pps's modifyer, iguana's role threat level, and if there is another pr lurking.
On the flip side you specifically have given scum the fact that you are a pr that you "targeted" cuzz and then no clue what you did last night. scum gets much less from simply learning what it is you targeted cuzz with where town learns how we should treat cuzz ect. So like I said, if anything you should claim. Not force out other advantages for scum.
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I am immensely opposed to the mass claim. I do not see what it does to help town.
Helping Process of Elimination is a big one, along with making people actually responsible for their pseudoclaims are the big reasons I want to do this
PPE: 5, cuzz and reactions
PPE: 1. The amount that this should be discussed is...not until the claims actually happen. the more that I have to talk about, the less effective it'll be, but it definitely should still be done over not
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Making a bigger post and noticed this.
The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.
I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.
Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though. There's 3 scum out there, super unlikely both of them are town.
Vote: PPS
what do you think we get from PPS's flip? he only town confirmed space. You are jumping to the only thing we could get is he has a result from last night he would tell us then we would lynch him to confirm the result? If it was a helpful result i'm gonna go ahead and guess he would have claimed. PPS is not an informative lynch more than his alignment really.
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To me, it looks unlikely that we are lynching any of the following people today: me, Ghacob, TWM, McMcsalot, maybe Faust.
If that's true, then IMO we are doing really well and have really good odds of hitting scum, and so there's no need to claim anything else right now.
I don't feel TWM's low confidence about odds of hitting scum. The people who have been driving the wagons the past couple of days are not the ones driving the wagons right now. That is a good thing and a good sign that we've got scum cornered.
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Making a bigger post and noticed this.
The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.
I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.
Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though. There's 3 scum out there, super unlikely both of them are town.
Vote: PPS
what do you think we get from PPS's flip? he only town confirmed space. You are jumping to the only thing we could get is he has a result from last night he would tell us then we would lynch him to confirm the result? If it was a helpful result i'm gonna go ahead and guess he would have claimed. PPS is not an informative lynch more than his alignment really.
If he is town, then I think his case on Faust is probably correct. So we get info on whether to believe in it.
The reason not to lynch Faust today is that he's def not partners with DatSwan, which was the main reason he looked like he could be scum yesterday.
IDK am I being too simple?
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Cause it's like, either Faust is scum, and he shot scummy Galz because he thought he needed to shoot a strong player to justify being alive D2, and then he shot Space because he wanted to frame PPS and he knew he would have to kill Space after town!PPS flipped an investigative role. So in a world where PPS is town, Faust is probably scum because he's still alive.
But in the world where Faust is town, probably PPS is scum trying to frame the dude.
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We could totally lynch Faust first but that would be dumb IMO because I believe in scum!PPS more than scum!Faust right now.
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PPS voters (reason for)
Day 1: cuzz(rvs), space(rvs), mcmc(case), robz(sheep), cuzz(scummy pps post): 3
Day 2: iguana(post claim case), faust(scummy pps post), datswan(omgus): 3
Day 3: faust(deaths?), ghacob(sheep), iguana(wagon case), cuzz(scummy pps post): 4
So Day one I pushed a pps case very hard, we had it turns out two other wagons on town so there was no need or reason for scum to join my wagon over the others aside from the fact that I was the one pushing the case. However since then, PPS claimed cop and now has gotten up to l-1 at a point. I guess this didn't tell me as much as I wanted, it does make faust and iguana feel scummier to me ugh but they were the lalight pushers which makes them townier.
I think i'm at:
Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob
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Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob
You didn't include yourself in the list?!
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Cause it's like, either Faust is scum, and he shot scummy Galz because he thought he needed to shoot a strong player to justify being alive D2, and then he shot Space because he wanted to frame PPS and he knew he would have to kill Space after town!PPS flipped an investigative role. So in a world where PPS is town, Faust is probably scum because he's still alive.
But in the world where Faust is town, probably PPS is scum trying to frame the dude.
Why are people so convinced that faust has to be part of some sort of framing plan being with the nightkils.
Galz is a super strong townie, Space was confirmed town by cop, aren't the reasons they died just obvious and have nothing specific to do with faust.
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Iunno man, I'm a simple phool I suppose.
Let's Lynch LaLight has been my battle cry this game. Of course I'll join you there.
How about you get a wagon to L-1 on him and I get to hammer 8)
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Yesterday didn't you say my PPS case was genius?
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Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob
I am most suspicious of iguana. I am very hesitant about TWM but every interaction with him as felt like an authentic townie trying to work with me even if it has to be against me. Iguana is outright dead set on lynching the claimed cop. I'm with you on your faust analysis. When DatSwan flipped town I capitulated most of my assessment against him. That he's voting me is explanation of itself, faust always defaults to voting me unless there's clear reason not to. No one can make a clear cut case on Lalight so I am suspicious of the proponents of his lynch although I think his flip would be most illuminating. I also don't see the outstanding town read on Ghacob. In a vacuum he looks fine enough but paired with my scum reads I could easily see him being a scum partner.
If I were taking bets on a scum team it would be iguana/ghacob/faust (which happens to be my wagon, iinm).
For informative flips I'd consider LL and possibly TWM.
Who does that leave, oh, Robz who we could use around here but certainly seems Town for his lack of interest and Cuzz who seems to be around a lot more than Robs but not putting much actual effort in.
And since I'm working off a list where you didn't include yourself I have to say that while I fear confirmation bias from someone leading people away from my lynch mcmc seems like he is doing some critical and useful analysis and I've had zero reason not to town read him.
That PPS guy, well, he's getting framed for sure, I just know it.
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Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob
Iguana is outright dead set on lynching the claimed cop. I'm with you on your faust analysis.
Nah dude I've been very very clear that I am a two-trick pony today. You or Lalight. Either way is fine.
If I were taking bets on a scum team it would be iguana/ghacob/faust (which happens to be my wagon, iinm).
Lol so your reads are just OMGUS?
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Caught up! I accept that Space targeted Teproc/Ghacob and got no result.
I kind of want to vote Cuzz over that whole "OH NO I L-1ed SOMEBODY, WOE IS ME, I CRY YOUR PARDON" performance.
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Robz, maybe you are just a scum dude.
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Caught up! I accept that Space targeted Teproc/Ghacob and got no result.
I kind of want to vote Cuzz over that whole "OH NO I L-1ed SOMEBODY, WOE IS ME, I CRY YOUR PARDON" performance.
Do you mean got a town result because space was a cop.
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Yeah I just had another look.
D1 you seemed kinda towny. Then D2 you just spent the whole day being like "Faust and DatSwan are scum for sure. The PRs are all town for sure. Let's lynch DatSwan."
And then we did and he was town.
How do you feel about that? Good? Uscum?
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Lol so your reads are just OMGUS?
Not exactly. My previous case on faust still has merit outside of the Swan flip. Swan was implicated by association to faust not the other way around. One could suspect of faust of leveraging that fact to swing to wagon off him and onto Swan yesterday.
It's not purely OMGUS to be suspicious of the guy who refuses to look outside of two possibilities for today and is fervently in favor of lynching a town cop.
Ghacob might be more properly labeled OMGUS suspicion. He seems to be playing right into yours and faust's hands or he is a partner.
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Yeah I just had another look.
D1 you seemed kinda towny. Then D2 you just spent the whole day being like "Faust and DatSwan are scum for sure. The PRs are all town for sure. Let's lynch DatSwan."
And then we did and he was town.
How do you feel about that? Good? Uscum?
Hey, you could equally point this case at me but I don't see Robz in your voting pool for today...
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Caught up! I accept that Space targeted Teproc/Ghacob and got no result.
I kind of want to vote Cuzz over that whole "OH NO I L-1ed SOMEBODY, WOE IS ME, I CRY YOUR PARDON" performance.
Do you mean got a town result because space was a cop.
I think Space got blocked, based on the way they framed that one post TWM pointed out.
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Yeah I just had another look.
D1 you seemed kinda towny. Then D2 you just spent the whole day being like "Faust and DatSwan are scum for sure. The PRs are all town for sure. Let's lynch DatSwan."
And then we did and he was town.
How do you feel about that? Good? Uscum?
I feel regretful that we lynched DatSwan, yes.
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PPS is all like "If you claim cop, you should be unlynchable." Lol
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I, vaguely aware that other things are happening, henceforth layout the plans a for mass claim, in which the only options are to claim pr or vt. For anyone that has made softclaims of any sort in this regard, (most of us!) this should just be as simple as stating explicitly what was already said implicitly.
The order for this should be ~as follows:
1. Robz
2. LaLight
3. iguana
4. mcmc
5. faust
After this point, the two that have made proper PR claims (PPS, TWM) remain, as well as myself and Cuzz, of which order should be irrelevant.
PPE: 9
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I don't actually have the most certainty in this order but, again, it's far more important that it happens then a specific order for the claims
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There is just no way Ghacob is scum.
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PPS is all like "If you claim cop, you should be unlynchable." Lol
I know better than that. Every game I've been cop I've gotten lynched for it. I'm trying to prevent that with some effort this game. Kind of like when Galzria or Roz (can't remember) managed to survive the game as claimed survivor. Clearly, keeping a cop alive is way better than keeping a survivor alive.
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I think the idea there was that people believed Robz and he had good leads on who scum were.
I don't believe you and your scumreads are just other people who don't believe you. But to me the people voting you and pushing your case seem pretty towny.
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I, vaguely aware that other things are happening, henceforth layout the plans a for mass claim, in which the only options are to claim pr or vt. For anyone that has made softclaims of any sort in this regard, (most of us!) this should just be as simple as stating explicitly what was already said implicitly.
The order for this should be ~as follows:
1. Robz
2. LaLight
3. iguana
4. mcmc
5. faust
After this point, the two that have made proper PR claims (PPS, TWM) remain, as well as myself and Cuzz, of which order should be irrelevant.
PPE: 9
I'm not sure this is a good idea, but Ghacob really seems like town, so anyway...
I'm a Vanilla Townie.
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Here's some meta reasons why LL is scum.
He's a bit like me where he plays with more energy as town than scum and more enthusiasm. But a bit better than me. He knows he needs to imitate his town mindset a bit so as scum he always makes some random off the cuff posts D1 to look tony, but it's a bit more forced. I noticed it when I played scum with him in M100 and Space Alert.
So as scum he just does a bit less, lurks more, and here's the clincher, when people scumread him he doesn't defend himself with the same enthusiasm. I think we are seeing that right now and honestly every day where I could sway a few people to vote him and get a wagon going but he doesn't really respond to it much.
So a couple things he did that scum alight would do. When Datswan put him on his would not lynch list, Lalight said, that's weird I would lynch me if I was reading me. I think that is just what scum Lalight would say because scum Lalight doesn't really believe in himself and hasn't convinced himself he is town.
Also that part early innthe game where he did a DAMAGe was totally a D1 scum LL play to try to get into his town meta.
And really just the lack of a defense. Town Lalight really fights for himself and I've not seen that.
Add to that all the resistance to his lynch mostly by unknown alignment people like PPS, Robz, etc.
Scummy position on Datswan wagon I think? And on both mislynches.
A lot of my meta case I felt like I couldn't make before because it was based on currently being scum with him in Space Alert mafia. Now that it's over though I can talk about it so I did.
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Here's some meta reasons why LL is scum.
He's a bit like me where he plays with more energy as town than scum and more enthusiasm. But a bit better than me. He knows he needs to imitate his town mindset a bit so as scum he always makes some random off the cuff posts D1 to look tony, but it's a bit more forced. I noticed it when I played scum with him in M100 and Space Alert.
Examples from this game? Post numbers are fine.
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Oy I will try some time. I don't like that part of mafia because it feels like work. But I'll try to take a glance at his ISO.
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Oy I will try some time. I don't like that part of mafia because it feels like work. But I'll try to take a glance at his ISO.
I mean, I am already voting for him. So don't do it just for me. I am just genuinely curious.
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I definitely think LL could be scum.
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It would be cool to get every person in the game to post an opinion on who we lynch before we lynch maybe? But Robz saying LL could be scum earns him like 0 towncred from me if/when LL flips scum. I think if LL is scum at this point they will start to go bus mode.
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The only people I'm feeling real townie on at this point are iguaniguana and Ghacob.
I lean town on TWM and mcmc.
I could lynch faust, LL, Cuzz for sure.
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Robz, it's okay, you can try a bit harder and we won't give you scumpoints for it.
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Robz, it's okay, you can try a bit harder and we won't give you scumpoints for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_xbqk0ufZQ
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TWM has claimed nothing of substance. Actually really interesting here, TWM claimed to have used a pr on cuzz night one. One could assume he has another something he used last night. Two potential results that we actually don't know about. TWM's usage of pr hasn't led to a definitive stance on cuzz either way.
I targeted Robz, feel better about sharing this now that he has claimed, last night.
But I will hold onto what, if anything, that means until later.
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i’m vt
I am leaning towards scum!pps at this point.
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Mcmc is not obv!town which is suspicious as well
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There is just no way Ghacob is scum.
I think you mean iguana.
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It would be cool to get every person in the game to post an opinion on who we lynch before we lynch maybe? But Robz saying LL could be scum earns him like 0 towncred from me if/when LL flips scum. I think if LL is scum at this point they will start to go bus mode.
LaLight is a fine lynch, but it would make me more happy if we could lynch PPS.
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Other potential scumsters are Robz, mcmc, Cuzz.
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There is just no way Ghacob is scum.
I think you mean iguana.
Probably him too. But I am more certain of Ghacob
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Cuzz has flown way under the radar this game. By Day 3 that often means scum.
Vote: Cuzz
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Vote count 3.2
pingpongsam (3): faust, Ghacob, iguanaiguana
LaLight (2): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (2): pingpongsam, Cuzz
with 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 ends friday, march 9th at 03:00 forum time.
mod notes
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Iguana, you are next to claim please
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So my claim starts with how I really like Sufjan Stevens. And when I saw my role PM, my heart immediately burst out with lines from his song Christmas Unicorn: "For I have seen others in the uniform of a unicorn just like me. We are legions wide and we take no sides. We are masters of mystique."
I thought the flavor of Christmas Unicorn would have been really fitting for my role, VT.
And yeah I tried to drop pseudo PR hints to draw the NK but it didn't work out and here I am.
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Sorry for the delay; I wanted to get to a desktop to write out my claim in greater detail than that and maybe explain a few different things I said on prior occasions. It didn't happen though.
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Cuzz has flown way under the radar this game. By Day 3 that often means scum.
Vote: Cuzz
Blah
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So my claim starts with how I really like Sufjan Stevens. And when I saw my role PM, my heart immediately burst out with lines from his song Christmas Unicorn: "For I have seen others in the uniform of a unicorn just like me. We are legions wide and we take no sides. We are masters of mystique."
I thought the flavor of Christmas Unicorn would have been really fitting for my role, VT.
And yeah I tried to drop pseudo PR hints to draw the NK but it didn't work out and here I am.
Blah
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
Why could you not have had this thought as mafia. Or rather what makes the unicorn something that would be assigned to town rather than mafia
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- each non-VT role will have a unique flavor / song flip, VTs will just be dealt with the same way as people from the previous song-theme games (lyrics relevant to the person/situation)
Relevant, but not sure how to parse it out
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Robz and lalight. What sort of role name info did you get as a Vt?
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Robz and lalight. What sort of role name info did you get as a Vt?
Uh, I don't like going down this road because it can be dangerous, but I didn't get a unique role name. It looks to me like people get a unique song lyric flip, but not a unique role name.
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And I might have misunderstood what iguana was saying. Now that I am on a computer I think I misread that he said his flavor was Christmas Unicorn.
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welcome to M113! you are a vanilla townie
look at me, not copying the VT pm from some other game. each night you can do NOTHING.
each day you can talk and vote.
you win when all mafia members have been eliminated.
this represents exactly what each VT received as PM.
the mafia goon PM from the same post represents essentially what non-VTs received: flavor name in the first line, followed by abilities & wincon
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Well if I understand correctly, iguana's reveal leaves me with a complete and total null feel except for the fact that he did it, which is a bit townier, especially in addition to how he has been playing the rest of the game.
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That's all I was going for!
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It was never meant to be 'I can prove I am town with my role', just 'I had some town thoughts because I am VT and I can say them.' Then it turned into sorta a bigger thing than I wanted it to.
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so iguana's little ruse appears to have been essentially a complete waste of time and not necessarily alignment indicative at all.
i still think iguana is probtown though.
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so iguana's little ruse appears to have been essentially a complete waste of time and not necessarily alignment indicative at all.
i still think iguana is probtown though.
Why do you think iguana is town then?
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Ironic that I tried to keep iguana alive by casting doubt on his PR-ness.
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Told y’all iguana math wasn’t a thing. I was suspicious and anxious to see the claim because I thought if he was scum there was some fake claim coming. Now I’m just confounded.
Vote: LaLight
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Everyone seems really disappointed in my not being a PR, so what can I say? I'M A CHRISTMAS UNICORN!!!
Oh, I'm a mystical apostasy, I'm a horse with a fantasy twist
Though I play all night, with my magical kite, people say I don't exist
For I make no full apology for the category I reside
I'm a mythical mess, with a treasury chest, I'm a construct of your mind. (https://youtu.be/N_cPQn6vOdo?t=47)
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Ok how about this.
I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.
And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
Why could you not have had this thought as mafia. Or rather what makes the unicorn something that would be assigned to town rather than mafia
To me, the lyrics in the song perfectly describe a vanilla town.
"For I have seen others in the uniform of a unicorn just like me. We are legions wide, and we take no sides.." - Lots of VTs in the game, but we don't know who each other are. Therefore we don't know what is the correct side to take and have to figure it out.
Also, from the next stanza: "You may dress in the human uniform, child, but I know you're just like me." is like how we all look the same outwardly because we don't know each other's alignments but we have to figure out who the others are and find each other.
"We are masters of Mystique." -- just very fitting to a mafia game.
"I play all night with my magical kite" - IE: no night action.
"People say I don't exist." "I make no apology." - More lines about how everyone doubts and distrusts the VT but they have to prove that they are real and not lying.
"I'm a construct of your mind" - WIFOM, how people get in your heads.
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Iguana thing makes sense and I agree with pps I think scum!guana is more likely to fake claim a pr here.
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Moreover I am still not sure why on just ghacob's request we have begun massclaiming in an order he didn't even put himself on it.
Robz - VT
Lalight - VT
guana - VT
Mcmc - not claimed
Faust - not claimed
Ghacob - not claimed
TWM - targetable pr
PPS - cop
Galz - even night watcher
Space - one shot cop
Iguana's claim lets scum know for sure he isn't a pr which sucks, it ruins what iguana tried to do and like I said before we got nothing from it. Iguana I think is likely town but I thought that before the claim. If me Faust or Ghacob claim a pr what in the world does that really do for POE. I hate that we have done this for the record.
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Could I have thought about this as mafia? Yes, technically, I could have. The VT role PM was publicly displayed. So I could have thought about what would my connection to VT be if I were a VT, and come up with all this exact same nonsense.
But I feel like the depth to which I've connected to my role through my connection to one of my favorite songs by my second-favorite-musical-artist [Aside: I like Okkervil River better; I've thought about modding an Okkervil River mafia.] shows that I am actually flavorfully identifying with the dumb role that I got and that it's a real thing in my heart that exists, not just something I made up.
Therefore, it can make me towny, but obviously it can't prove that I am town. What I can prove is that I had all of these thoughts. I guess technically I can't prove that I wouldn't have had them as scum. So I dunno looking back at my original statement it's a little too strongly worded when it says: "I can prove that [I had unique town-only thoughts] whenever necessary." If I could rewrite, I'd amend that a little bit.
Also, I am just kinda now realizing that this is all funny because I didn't even get a song, or a role name, but I just assigned one to myself because I really really wanted to get one.
Ok, I'm done unless people want more of my songwriting analysis ;) 8)
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It irks me to no end that faust and ghacob are currently voting for the claimed cop, ghacob has pushed us to claim pr/vt which could let scum know don't worry just kill twm the other claimed pr and were all out or hey leave twm alone because his role hasn't done much harm yet and kill this pr we had no clue about.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
I actually still feel this way too FwhateverIW
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Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"
[wrong things]
I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?
I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be
vote: PPS
@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?
Why does this post say "man that datswan lynch was bad wish I had been around more to push the lalight lynch. Anyway about that claimed cop!"
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Ghacob has 13 posts. Why is he being townread by others?
He came in late day 2 so those posts are tough to read into but its a hello, followed by a reads list which I actually dont love its targeted at rereading non claimed pr's/space which is fine since the pr calims/space were sort of off the table. But he says datswan was a scum read but its probably just annoyance at typing quirks, he says faust is a scumread but mostly because of pps's argument, he has a vague townread on me because teproc did, cuzz/lalight/robz he doesn't give any read on but just something they have done and that he needs to reread lalight. Super full of hedge and doesn't divulge much at all. His last post is asking twm if he got a result on cuzz, which is rolefishy. Then he's gone and never votes. Pretty weak day all together.
Day 3, 10 posts.
First is what I quoted and apology for not being around and wishing he pushed lalight then a vote for pps because he agrees with something faust said. So apparently faust is scummy because of reasons pps gave and pps is scummy because of reasons faust gave.
Second he prods lalight, me robz and cuzz, that fine we weren't contributing but I think thats an easy thing to do as scum to look townie, I do it all the time.
Third is that we should pr/vt claim which as has been pointed out multiple times is just worse than a massclaim which is debatably bad.
Fourth is a defense of vt/pr claim because it reduces scums ability to hide behind vagueness, which it doesn't it allows them to hide in plain sight because they know whats what.
Fifth is a nothing post
Sixth is a reup on the fact that we should massclaim
Seventh is a defense of massclaim since it helps with poe, which again it doesn't it at most reveals a pr that probably doesn't have relevant results so we won't be able to rule them out as a lynch.
Eight is straight up enforcing a pr/vt claim order that leaves himself off he leaves cuzz off two which is super weird. Like why should cuzz not claim pr/vt because twm targeted him with something???? Also he says "most of us" have softclaimed when only twm and pps have.
Nine is a hedge that he doesnt have a reason for his order...
Ten is a prod to iguana to claim.
Thats it. Ghacob has hedged reads and forced people to claim repeatedly against faust and my better reasoning, in an order he chose which hew hedged that he didn't have a real reason for. I still want to lynch lalight but man ghacob is scummy.
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I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
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The only people I'm feeling real townie on at this point are iguaniguana and Ghacob.
I lean town on TWM and mcmc.
I could lynch faust, LL, Cuzz for sure.
Why town on ghacob?
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Okay so its really just robz and twm claiming ghacob as super town which is actually nice because I think it is highly unlikely Ghacob, TWM, and Robz could possibly be the scum team and they are all people I find relative levels of scummy.
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Post Count Part 2
172 - 86 - The_Wine_Merchant (1)
157 - 119 - faust (2)
157 - 84 - iguanaiguana (2)
89 - 56 - mcmcsalot (5)
83 - 75 - Cuzz (2)
75 - 44 - pingpongsam (2)
65 - 30 - Robz888 (2)
64 - 54 - LaLight (1)
39 - 27 - Teproc/Ghacob (1)
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My strongest townread is TWM.
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Lalight full reread time:
Early on he votes for both space and datswan and defends sirclem by saying he doesn't like lynching newbies and doesn't find clem scummy.
vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Interesting he votes teproc with this post when noone is voting teproc and then when asked why he finds teproc scummy he says nothing, dissapears for a long time and says.
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
His wagon at the time is Clem, teproc, cuzz, iguana.
He goes on to continue to defend clem and then woah
vote: sc is it deadline already
Clem is currently at 4 votes, while space and galz are at 2, he could easily support a non clem lynch.
TWM actually unvotes clem right after dropping clem back to 4, a lalight unvote could easily move to a different main wagon.
TWM and iguana move back to clem as deadline approaches and galz hammers for clarity.
Day 2 lalight votes faust out the gate railing at him for pushing the clem lynch and claiming he was right about clem being obvi town.
there is a little back and forth with faust then this
I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
TWM wagon is Faust, space, iguana, cuzz. He goes on later to explain his townread of TWM is because he thinks twm is more cold blodded when scum and more emotional as town so a meta defense not a things he has done townie in the game defense which is easier for scum to generate.
Next goes v/la and comes back saying he reread and it makes him want to lynch datswan, who was at 3, twm/robz/cuzz he leaves long time scumread faust to go there, faust, pps, and twm are only other wagon ish at 2 votes a piece. His reason to vote datswan is datswan was asking twice why he was scummy, and datswan put lalight in his town reads and lalight claims he would lynch himself based off his posts this is a scum trait I think. He also says he is wary of robz and thats it.
Day 3 says PPS is either scum who killed space to confirm his pr or town and scum killed space to frame pps as scummy looking. He votes faust, says iguana is town and agrees we should massclaim. Then there is this:
if you want to lynch me, well, fine, but let's massclaim first. Or, as it has been said, we will face LyLo tomorrow with no trust into any claim
Which is strange, lalight earlier said he wouldn't claim when he was getting some pressure, then he says if we lynch him at least massclaim first, then he claims vt. SO lalight is going to have to give me a really good explaination for why massclaim is good. Explicitly explain why we trust claims today more then tomorrow. It's not like he had a claim to make so he must be just looking at the "greater good". Really I just think he thinks he is going down here and might as well push for that massclaim before he goes out.
All in lalight has done little to no case making, his biggest actions were the defense of clem which he was very instrumental in helping lynch and a tunnel of faust for starting and pushing the clem wagon followed by being a middling vote on the datswan wagon with a poor reason and finally the participation and pushing of the claims.
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My strongest townread is TWM.
Same and mcmc is not far behind. TWM has been way more involved, though, and I personally have grilled him a few times and every time I felt like he was town playing a town game.
Would Not Lynch:
PPS
TWM
mcmc
Prefer not to lynch:
iguana
That leaves (in no particular order):
LaLight
faust
Robz
cuzz
Ghacob
If my reads are good then all 3 scum are in my 5 person lynch pool. That my town reads want a LL lynch is notable.
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Told y’all iguana math wasn’t a thing. I was suspicious and anxious to see the claim because I thought if he was scum there was some fake claim coming. Now I’m just confounded.
Vote: LaLight
This was L-2 by the way: TWM, mcmc, PPS
9 alive 5 to lynch. Iguana has posted intent to hammer lalight as he has pushed lalight all game so we can essentially treat lalight as L-1
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Yes, someone nice should please let me have the hammer.
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Yes, someone nice should please let me have the hammer.
I already did, didn't I?
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First of all, I use they/them pronouns, not he/him.
Second of all, thank you for your softclaim of VT.
I don't like most of your words but they mostly don't mean anything anyway
discussion of the "massclaim" I'm still waiting for after the completion of
For clarification, my intention was
6. Cuzz
7. Ghacob
and
6. Ghacob
7. Cuzz
were equally acceptable to me
PPE: 4ish?
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so iguana's little ruse appears to have been essentially a complete waste of time and not necessarily alignment indicative at all.
i still think iguana is probtown though.
Why do you think iguana is town then?
just giving off them townvibes, ya know? posting a lot of casual, conversational, thinking-out-loud types of remarks that seem to come from a genuine town mindset.
getting a similar feel from TWM as well.
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First of all, I use they/them pronouns, not he/him.
Much apologies, I was unaware, won't forget!
Second of all, thank you for your softclaim of VT.
Show me where you got that because I absolutely have not.
I don't like most of your words but they mostly don't mean anything anyway
discussion of the "massclaim" I'm still waiting for after the completion of
what in the world...most of my words don't mean anything. Care to elaborate, my words about you being scummy or my words about the claims being a bad idea. Because I think I'm pretty clear in my reasoning for both and you could easily try to convince me I'm wrong instead of just not addressing anything and being rolefishy/pushy.
For clarification, my intention was
6. Cuzz
7. Ghacob
and
6. Ghacob
7. Cuzz
were equally acceptable to me
I would ask why but you carefully said you didn't have a real reason in the first place so bleh.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
Sure thing. Unfortunately I did not have the energy to fight it with the VLA and all.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
Sure thing. Unfortunately I did not have the energy to fight it with the VLA and all.
Awesome, now that that silly endeavor is over. People can get back to scum hunting.
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For clarification, my intention was
6. Cuzz
7. Ghacob
and
6. Ghacob
7. Cuzz
were equally acceptable to me
I would ask why but you carefully said you didn't have a real reason in the first place so bleh.
I had a very real reason that I'd still rather wait until it's finished to discuss
I don't like most of your words but they mostly don't mean anything anyway
discussion of the "massclaim" I'm still waiting for after the completion of
what in the world...most of my words don't mean anything. Care to elaborate, my words about you being scummy or my words about the claims being a bad idea. Because I think I'm pretty clear in my reasoning for both and you could easily try to convince me I'm wrong instead of just not addressing anything and being rolefishy/pushy.
You said so many things of little substance that I was convinced that your goal was to annoy me and provoke a response over anything else.
Moreover I am still not sure why on just ghacob's request we have begun massclaiming in an order he didn't even put himself on it.
Robz - VT
Lalight - VT
guana - VT
Mcmc - not claimed
Faust - not claimed
Ghacob - not claimed
TWM - targetable pr
PPS - cop
Galz - even night watcher
Space - one shot cop
Iguana's claim lets scum know for sure he isn't a pr which sucks, it ruins what iguana tried to do and like I said before we got nothing from it. Iguana I think is likely town but I thought that before the claim. If me Faust or Ghacob claim a pr what in the world does that really do for POE. I hate that we have done this for the record.
misinterpreting my post, admonishing me for not putting myself and cuzz on the list, proceeds to not put cuzz on your list
Ghacob has 13 posts. Why is he being townread by others?
Using post count to start a scumread is...innefective. Post count isn't alignment indicative in general and forms a poor argument, but especially a. for me, because I have a tendency to make long posts like this one over 10 smaller posts b. because you isolated me from Teproc as if in an attempt to make my post count feel even smaller to start off with
I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
Making a point to question both people who read me as town, pretending(?) to not know an obvious reason to think I'm towny
Okay so its really just robz and twm claiming ghacob as super town which is actually nice because I think it is highly unlikely Ghacob, TWM, and Robz could possibly be the scum team and they are all people I find relative levels of scummy.
You find it a...good sign? that you know at least one of your scumreads is wrong?
At that, claiming to find TWM in "relative levels of scummy", despite the other half of your "argument" against me, being that I'm voting against a claimed cop
Claiming that this doesn't help with POE, despite that being a thing that it does by definition of having an odd number of scum and an equally distributed town between the two binary options.
Overall, despite posting many words, I find nearly all of your many posts forming an argument against me insubstansive, feel they are designed more to annoy then to present a reasoned argument, and they even go so far as to make your arguments on other subjects weaker
Congrats, I went off on you a bit, does this make you happy?
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And before you ask, the obvious reason to read me as town is that no scum would play this poorly ;D
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I think Ghacob's decision to go ahead and organize a massclaim would be pretty bold for scum.
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We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.
Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
Sure thing. Unfortunately I did not have the energy to fight it with the VLA and all.
Awesome, now that that silly endeavor is over. People can get back to scum hunting.
I don't want to talk too much more about who is town or scum today because we will prolly lynch LL and then someone will prolly die and then we will know more and have better reads to find the other scums.
-
Ghacob good defense but McMc was certainly not trying to just annoy you, that is overstating things.
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I think Ghacob's decision to go ahead and organize a massclaim would be pretty bold for scum.
Why we massclaim like every game now. You literally opened your last scum game with the post are we going to massclaim now or have a long discussion about massclaiming and then do it anyway. It's not that bold.
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If I were scum right now, I'd still be decently confused about the best person to shoot, depending I guess on who else is scum. That makes me feel good and like we should lynch LL right now and go to night phase.
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I don't like most of your words but they mostly don't mean anything anyway
discussion of the "massclaim" I'm still waiting for after the completion of
what in the world...most of my words don't mean anything. Care to elaborate, my words about you being scummy or my words about the claims being a bad idea. Because I think I'm pretty clear in my reasoning for both and you could easily try to convince me I'm wrong instead of just not addressing anything and being rolefishy/pushy.
You said so many things of little substance that I was convinced that your goal was to annoy me and provoke a response over anything else.
Not at all true, zero of my intention was to annoy I just broke down your posts and realized you were scummy. I don't like that you are continuing to just claim my post is unsubstantive. Your introductory reads list was scummy because of how much you didn't take ownership of any of your reads(datswan/faust/me) and then you gave null statements on robz/lalight/cuzz. Very weak for having all the information in the game thus far to analyze and scummy because it allows you to basically not commit on any read. Today you have done nothing but flip your pps/faust read and push a massclaim. Literally nothing else, no analysis, no reads.
Moreover I am still not sure why on just ghacob's request we have begun massclaiming in an order he didn't even put himself on it.
Robz - VT
Lalight - VT
guana - VT
Mcmc - not claimed
Faust - not claimed
Ghacob - not claimed
TWM - targetable pr
PPS - cop
Galz - even night watcher
Space - one shot cop
Iguana's claim lets scum know for sure he isn't a pr which sucks, it ruins what iguana tried to do and like I said before we got nothing from it. Iguana I think is likely town but I thought that before the claim. If me Faust or Ghacob claim a pr what in the world does that really do for POE. I hate that we have done this for the record.
misinterpreting my post, admonishing me for not putting myself and cuzz on the list, proceeds to not put cuzz on your list
I'm confused what you mean here. What am I misinterpreting? I'm merely stating what your push for claims has caused which is outing iguana as not a pr and if played out more it outs the rest of the players while allowing scum to fake claim safely. Also leaving yourself and cuzz off the list is scummy in the fact that I can't see the town reason for leaving yourself and cuzz off the list. Also who's trying to annoy now, the fact that you think its an issue that I left cuzz off my theoretical argument for who could safely fake claim is pure semantics, my point was clear that the person claiming at the end was safe to fake claim pending vt claims from the people above them.
Ghacob has 13 posts. Why is he being townread by others?
Using post count to start a scumread is...innefective. Post count isn't alignment indicative in general and forms a poor argument, but especially a. for me, because I have a tendency to make long posts like this one over 10 smaller posts b. because you isolated me from Teproc as if in an attempt to make my post count feel even smaller to start off with
Never once did I say I scum read you because you had 13 posts. I was curious how people had strong townreads because I felt you had produced very little content and proceded to do a full reread of you. I then formed the scumread as I read the posts and yes part of the case is you have given very little reads/analysis in your posts the fact that its contained to 13 posts has no bearing on my case. I could have removed the numbers but you chosing this to refute as though I began my case due to a low post count and specifically tried to make you look worse by separating your number from teproc is scummy. In my full post count I made just afterward I did include teproc in your numbers.
I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
Making a point to question both people who read me as town, pretending(?) to not know an obvious reason to think I'm towny
This followed up by this:
And before you ask, the obvious reason to read me as town is that no scum would play this poorly ;D
Is actually super scummy. This scum wouldn't play this poorly argument is a complete reversal of the rest of your argument that my case is not substantive and that you think I'm more trying to provoke you then make a case. Now all the sudden you think you are playing poorly what happened. Feels like you are double dipping in your type of defense here. My case is meaningless and you are so scummy you must be town wow.
Okay so its really just robz and twm claiming ghacob as super town which is actually nice because I think it is highly unlikely Ghacob, TWM, and Robz could possibly be the scum team and they are all people I find relative levels of scummy.
You find it a...good sign? that you know at least one of your scumreads is wrong?
At that, claiming to find TWM in "relative levels of scummy", despite the other half of your "argument" against me, being that I'm voting against a claimed cop
I specifically find it good that I don't think its possible all three of you are scum because if two of you flip scum I can stop worrying about the other. I don't get what the second thing you are saying here means. The word despite insinuated that there a reason me thinking your voting for a claimed cop is scummy and my finding twm a relative level of scummy can't both be true and I don't see it. Oh because twm is a claimed pr I get it, yea I don't think voting for a claimed cop and fiding a claimed unkown pr a relative level of scummy are similar at all.
Claiming that this doesn't help with POE, despite that being a thing that it does by definition of having an odd number of scum and an equally distributed town between the two binary options.
Overall, despite posting many words, I find nearly all of your many posts forming an argument against me insubstansive, feel they are designed more to annoy then to present a reasoned argument, and they even go so far as to make your arguments on other subjects weaker
Congrats, I went off on you a bit, does this make you happy?
Just to reiterate I did not mean to offend or annoy you at all. Lastly and I don't think its super relevant because if you are town we just disagree but POE really hinges on the ability to eliminate someone, not just put them in groups. The only way a pr/vt claim helps eliminate people is if we can trust the claims confidently and we are in a closed setup. It's not like town is guaranteed to have 5 pr's so once we are in pr/vt pools, scum can still exist in either pool.
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Ghacob good defense but McMc was certainly not trying to just annoy you, that is overstating things.
Read my post taking the defense apart, I need to reread the teproc part of ghacob but I am quite confident in them being scum. We should probably still lynch lalight though.
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And before you ask, the obvious reason to read me as town is that no scum would play this poorly ;D
Is actually super scummy. This scum wouldn't play this poorly argument is a complete reversal of the rest of your argument that my case is not substantive and that you think I'm more trying to provoke you then make a case. Now all the sudden you think you are playing poorly what happened. Feels like you are double dipping in your type of defense here. My case is meaningless and you are so scummy you must be town wow.
I sorta feel this point but at the same time I sorta remember Ghacob from before and I think that might be like their classic meta to be self-deprecatory and self-defensive at the same time?
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Quote fail fixed:
And before you ask, the obvious reason to read me as town is that no scum would play this poorly ;D
Is actually super scummy. This scum wouldn't play this poorly argument is a complete reversal of the rest of your argument that my case is not substantive and that you think I'm more trying to provoke you then make a case. Now all the sudden you think you are playing poorly what happened. Feels like you are double dipping in your type of defense here. My case is meaningless and you are so scummy you must be town wow.
I sorta feel this point but at the same time I sorta remember Ghacob from before and I think that might be like their classic meta to be self-deprecatory and self-defensive at the same time?
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Oh noes a quote flail!
Quote fail fixed fixed:
And before you ask, the obvious reason to read me as town is that no scum would play this poorly ;D
Is actually super scummy. This scum wouldn't play this poorly argument is a complete reversal of the rest of your argument that my case is not substantive and that you think I'm more trying to provoke you then make a case. Now all the sudden you think you are playing poorly what happened. Feels like you are double dipping in your type of defense here. My case is meaningless and you are so scummy you must be town wow.
I sorta feel this point but at the same time I sorta remember Ghacob from before and I think that might be like their classic meta to be self-deprecatory and self-defensive at the same time?
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ghacob is pretty likely town for meta reasons (I really don't think scum!Teproc forgets/pretends to forget about the start of the game and then replaces out later on) so mcmc trying to drive up suspicion on them is starting to seem scummy
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ghacob is pretty likely town for meta reasons (I really don't think scum!Teproc forgets/pretends to forget about the start of the game and then replaces out later on) so mcmc trying to drive up suspicion on them is starting to seem scummy
So I just read ghacobs posts in a few games, two scum two town. I don't see anything that screams they are town here, I think they play pretty similar as scum and town if anything town!ghacob makes more cases on people and scum!ghacab lurks more. Though I don't think its super relvant here.
Also teproc's literal last post was the one he made in this game two weeks irl ago. I don't think teproc dissapearing is a good reason to assume hes town. Also teproc wouldn't know he was mafia until until game started so forgetting about is not alignment indicative. I would love for someone to do some work and convince me I'm wrong but this lazy nah they are probably town because meta is super frustrating.
What are your current reads? You have had very little posts recently. (8 between my postcounts)
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ghacob is pretty likely town for meta reasons (I really don't think scum!Teproc forgets/pretends to forget about the start of the game and then replaces out later on) so mcmc trying to drive up suspicion on them is starting to seem scummy
Meh!
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yeah as pointed out, ghacob uses they/them and i'd like everyone to identify them properly.
something maybe a bit overdue, i put my pronoun in my signature and i'd encourage everyone to do the same. mafiascum has a default note as to what your pronoun is under your avatar which is handy and i think ought to be universal
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If I were scum right now, I'd still be decently confused about the best person to shoot, depending I guess on who else is scum. That makes me feel good and like we should lynch LL right now and go to night phase.
Do you think that will cure your confusion?
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I'll be back in full swing tomorrow. Expect great things.
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If I were scum right now, I'd still be decently confused about the best person to shoot, depending I guess on who else is scum. That makes me feel good and like we should lynch LL right now and go to night phase.
Do you think that will cure your confusion?
Nah I just mean maybe we could end the day before we tell scum exactly who to shoot.
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I'll be back in full swing tomorrow. Expect great things.
But nvm on that front since Faust is gonna set us up with great things.
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I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
Reasons
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I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
Reasons
I will preemptively say, so as to not raise your ire, is that at the moment I do not find it particularly useful to go into this and have a big back and forth (you and are likely to do this because of personalities) and distract from who we should actually be lynching.
If you vote for Ghacob (don't do this just to get this to happen) and a wagon starts I will argue against it then. For now I am more interested in getting LaLight lynched.
I have looked at your arguments and taken them into consideration and they have tempered, if ever so slightly, my read on Ghacob. But I think your read on him is highly biased on not liking him organizing the mass claim at my encouragement. Just because you and faust say something shouldn't be done doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. You have opinions, not word of law. Robz, LaLight and iguana accepted and followed Ghacob's suggestions. If anything they are more to blame, even though blame isn't the right word, for following his suggestions. If, in fact they were bad, those players had every responsibility, if town, to not follow them.
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I appreciated McMcs case on Ghacob a lot. Good to see the possibility that either could be scum. There's more than one scum in the sea ya know?
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I appreciated McMcs case on Ghacob a lot. Good to see the possibility that either could be scum. There's more than one scum in the sea ya know?
Certainly. I don't think there was anything with pointing those things out. But as for my personal response to mcmc, I don't see a need, beyond what I just said of talking those things through when, in my opinion, the focus should be on LaLight or another lynch candidate and not Ghacob. If he, and others want to make that the focus, through their votes, is another matter. But I would encourage not going down that path as I think it a fool's errand and would likely result in wasted time or a mislynch.
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Yeah we are pretty much just waiting on Faust now I guess, plus one more person actually has to vote for Lalight?
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I am happy to lose to scum!twm if it comes to it, that was a very pro town explaination of his read in response to my side case. Interested to hear from faust, then I have more rereads and more grilling to do.
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With all the willingness to get LaLight lynched, I think it's worth it to look into what happened at the end of D2.
Exhibit A is this vote count:
Vote count 2.4
DatSwan (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
faust (2): LaLight, pingpongsam
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends monday, february 26th at 22:00 forum time
mod notes
- 876 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg748079#msg748079)
- teproc has about a half hour to post
We already have some votes, but nothing spectacular. Things could still go a lot of ways from here.
vote: datswan
Cuzz brings DatSwan into "real wagon" territory. Note that this is when the deadline is looming as we don't know about the extension yet.
LaLight is next to jump on DatSwan, after the replacment:
And at this point, if not Datswan, I am not sure where to go. Avenues for elsewhere have been, well, lacking.
I don't like this post.
Vote: DatSwan
L-1
PPS joins the wagon.
Now DatSwan votes LaLight, creating an alternative. At that point it's really DatSwan vs LaLight. Robz weighs in:
I could lynch DS, or faust, or I guess LaLight.
Then I do agrue a bit against DatSwan lynch and suddenly it's
Datswan is dat scum.
Faust is dat other scum.
and he pushes mcmc into lynching. At that point, the LaLight wagon is DatSwan (conf!town), me and iguana (very much town). Scum did not join that, at all. I think with an option of 2 town lynches, scum would really try to not be pushy, but my scumreads are pushing the DatSwan wagon.
It's notable that Ghacob does not weigh in at all on these matters. They could have been a new voice providing new insights but instead they chose to remain quiet.
Then mcmc gives into Robz's pressure and votes LaLight.
So who's going after LaLight today? That would be TWM, mcmc, pps and iguana. It makes me uncomfortable to see so many of those who mislynched DatSwan piled up there. On the other hand, as explained, it may not mean anything because I think scum would play a town!LaLight scenario differently.
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I think it's going to be Vote: LaLight
L-1.
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Intent to hammer
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McMc and TWM are the towniest people who lynched DatSwan I think.
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Intent to hammer
Waiting for?
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Vote: Lalight
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Intent to hammer
Waiting for?
I dunno
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VT though. I think mcmc and faust orchestrated my first mislynch. You’ll see
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VT though. I think mcmc and faust orchestrated my first mislynch. You’ll see
Why not iguana? You think mcmc/faust just leveraged pre-existing town suicidal tendencies?
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VT though. I think mcmc and faust orchestrated my first mislynch. You’ll see
I don't think we will.
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McMc and TWM are the towniest people who lynched DatSwan I think.
This is true, but all of them are still scummy.
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VT though. I think mcmc and faust orchestrated my first mislynch. You’ll see
I don't think we will.
You think me scum? You’re the best in reading me
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ANyway i think this will be my last game for a long while, see you :) and good luck town!
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Lalight always claims town before he flips scum.
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thread lockd
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D3 Final Vote Count
LaLight (5): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, faust, iguanaiguana
pingpongsam (1): Ghacob
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (1): Cuzz
with 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
- 1195 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg749113#msg749113), 1243 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg749213#msg749213)
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https://youtu.be/9EzeW5KoPUI?t=31s (https://youtu.be/9EzeW5KoPUI?t=31s)
your father cried on the telephone
and he drove his car through the navy yard
just to prove that he was sorry
LaLight has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie!
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https://youtu.be/0OkX_r032PM?t=15s (https://youtu.be/0OkX_r032PM?t=15s)
i can see a lot of life in you
i can see a lot of bright in you
and i think that dress looks nice on you
i can see a lot of life in you
night 3 starts now and ends saturday, march 10th at 12:00 forum time
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https://youtu.be/pBMwwJMkcRA?t=1m34s (https://youtu.be/pBMwwJMkcRA?t=1m34s)
north of savannah we swim in the palisades,
i come out wearing my brother's red hat
there on his shoulder my best friend is bit seven times,
he runs, washing his face in his hands
oh, how i meant to tease him
oh, how i meant no harm
touching his back with my hand i kiss him,
i see a wasp on the length of my arm
The_Wine_Merchant has died in the night! he was the predatory wasp of the palisades, a town jailkeeper
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https://youtu.be/pBMwwJMkcRA?t=2m30s (https://youtu.be/pBMwwJMkcRA?t=2m30s)
oh, great sights upon this state, hallelu
wonders bright and rivers lake, hallelu
trail of tears and horseshoe lake, hallellu (we were in love, we were in love,)
trusting things beyond mistake, hallelu (palisades, palisades, i can wait, i can wait)
Day 4 Starts!
Vote count 4.0
not voting (7): Robz888, faust, mcmcsalot, Ghacob, pingpongsam, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 starts now and ends saturday, march 17th at 13:00 forum time. thread unlisted.
mod notes
- robz and mcmc are VLA this week
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Can we have a 48 hour extension because two people are VLA all week?
i guess
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I am really really really really unhappy and don't want to do the work necessary to lynch correctly but I will guh
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I kinda hoped I would be dead.
Oh well. I will have a good amount of time after the weekend.
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Uh yeah seeing as we’re likely at a 7 person lylo it would be cool to extend the deadline if Robz and mcmc really are vla all week. Otherwise we’re basically forfeiting unless they’re both scum.
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I was just checking to see if another game had started. For some reason I thought this day didn't start until tomorrow or Monday. I, too, am in favor of an extension.
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I kinda hoped I would be dead.
Oh well. I will have a good amount of time after the weekend.
Should been towny
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I kinda hoped I would be dead.
Oh well. I will have a good amount of time after the weekend.
Should been towny
Well you've been towny and how has that worked out for you?
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Same as it always does
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I am really really really really unhappy and don't want to do the work necessary to lynch correctly but I will guh
The only person you get to be unhappy with is yourself. You cast the hammer vote for LL.
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Yup
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Wait no LL did not even try to defend himself
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Also you did very little yesterday, put in no work, and just said lynching LL is fine and gave an effortless vote for Cuss and that's it.
Actually if and when town loses this game, probably primarily I will congratulate scum because I still don't know which half of the rest of you are them, but if you are town then you are very much to blame for signing up for games you don't seem to care about or want to bother with at all.
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I will blame myself sure for being wrong but if I had decent teammates this game that would have been really helpful for forming reads.
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BTW I am rereading and ranking everyone on Tuesday.
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I don’t like all this “I’m sorry that you are so terrible talk.” Let’s save the recriminations for after the game anyway, it ain’t over yet. Day three come back, that’s this town’s middle name.
I plan to do some re reading. Despite our dire situation, I think we can figure this out.
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Day four*. We are going to have a day three style comeback on day four!
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Also you did very little yesterday, put in no work, and just said lynching LL is fine and gave an effortless vote for Cuss and that's it.
Actually if and when town loses this game, probably primarily I will congratulate scum because I still don't know which half of the rest of you are them, but if you are town then you are very much to blame for signing up for games you don't seem to care about or want to bother with at all.
I agree; two of the three mislynches could probably have been avoided by a higher activity level.
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What we're definitely going to need is a mass claim. Many VTs claims have already been had... I think the remaining unclaimed are me, mcmc, Cuzz, Ghacob. My preferred order among those is
mcmc
Cuzz
Ghacob
me
But I support iguana determining an order.
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Also you did very little yesterday, put in no work, and just said lynching LL is fine and gave an effortless vote for Cuss and that's it.
Actually if and when town loses this game, probably primarily I will congratulate scum because I still don't know which half of the rest of you are them, but if you are town then you are very much to blame for signing up for games you don't seem to care about or want to bother with at all.
This is how I’m feeling, I have some thoughts still but nothing confident. I’m support a massclaim now and am fine with iguana setting an order.
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Ah yes, attempting to pin the blame on me for not re-reading the thread 18 times and posting some kind of multi-volume manifesto on who I think is scum... that's definitely not something mafia would be doing in this scenario, no way.
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I do have to re-read, but my sense is that faust has got to be scum. I thought this earlier and didn't push it hard enough.
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Can we do a PR/VET claim then a stuff claim? Does that help?
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Ah yes, attempting to pin the blame on me for not re-reading the thread 18 times and posting some kind of multi-volume manifesto on who I think is scum... that's definitely not something mafia would be doing in this scenario, no way.
Did you even read it once though?
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Ah yes, attempting to pin the blame on me for not re-reading the thread 18 times and posting some kind of multi-volume manifesto on who I think is scum... that's definitely not something mafia would be doing in this scenario, no way.
Did you even read it once though?
Yes.
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I suppose I listen to my gut more often than my brain, because my gut is better at being town than my brain is. Perhaps that comes across likeI'm not paying attention, but I am.
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I don't know what order all you liars should claim in.
How about liars first?
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Ghacob, Faust, Mcmc, Cuzz, PPS
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Sure.
Doctor, no additional modifiers.
mcmcs/iguana/iguana
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
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Why in the world did you vote PPS at the beginning of yesterday!?
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Why in the world did you vote PPS at the beginning of yesterday!?
Because he was scummy.
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Still is actually.
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Now since I answered your question, you might return the favor.
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Why in the world did you vote PPS at the beginning of yesterday!?
Because he was scummy.
Still is actually.
I... then why did you cooperate with them to lynch town yesterday?
PPE: 1
workin' on it.. don't really feel motivated to answer since you're "suddenly" one of the scummiest folk around
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Now since I answered your question, you might return the favor.
For town!faust (who is clearly a PR, as none of their reasons to vote and argue @PPS make sense as a VT) to cooperate with pps in a lynch, you would have to think TWM is scummier than PPS.
Underestimation of PRs' power, mostly, specifically completely ignoring them in who to attempt to save, as that's what I've been doing*, and assuming mafia would do the same
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Now since I answered your question, you might return the favor.
For town!faust (who is clearly a PR, as none of their reasons to vote and argue @PPS make sense as a VT) to cooperate with pps in a lynch, you would have to think TWM is scummier than PPS.
I don't follow. How did I cooperate with PPS? Do you just mean that we were on the same wagon? In which case, man if two people are scummy then I won't be dissuaded by one voting for the other. Especially not if it's PPS, who is a notorious busser anyway.
What all this has to do with TWM I don't get.
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Ghacob definitely spent a surprising amount of consideration on my role for someone who claims to not consider role powers in their night actions.
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
wait, what? who should they have protected, pps?
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For town!faust (who is clearly a PR, as none of their reasons to vote and argue @PPS make sense as a VT)...
wait, what? why couldn't VT!faust think pps was scummy?
also, wait, what? faust just claimed VT so town!faust is not a PR, he is a VT, or he is scum who may or may not be a scum PR. unless you are suggesting that faust might be a town PR who is fakeclaiming VT which seems extremely ill-advised at this point.
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I'll take a look at vote counts, see what it can tell us.
Vote count 1.1
Cuzz (3): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, LaLight
pingpongsam (2): Cuzz, SpaceAnemone
The_Wine_Merchant (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (1): faust
not voting (5): Robz888, SirClemens, Teproc, Galzria, iguanaiguana
First vote count. Notable things: Cuzz has 2 townies voting for him. PPS votes Robz alone. Scum!PPS is more likely to vote a partner in RVS I think.
Vote count 1.2
DatSwan (3): LaLight, SirClemens, mcmcsalot
Cuzz (2): DatSwan, faust
Galzria (2): Teproc, The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (3): iguanaiguana, Cuzz, Galzria
mcmc is the only non-confirmed townie on a conf!town wagon. Interestingly, we have 2 votes for PPS who are both non-confirmed.
Vote count 1.3
Galzria (3): pingpongsam, SirClemens, The_Wine_Merchant
SirClemens (3): Cuzz, faust, Teproc
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
Teproc (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (1): Galzria
Both wagons are interesting. PPS is the only possible non-town on Galzria, and scum could easily be on Clemens.
And finally:
thread locked
D1 final vote count.
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (0):
with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Being on the lynch wagon isn't terribly suspicious since basically all wagons that day have been on town. Scum can afford to be somewhere else here, and I expect they will.
Vote count 2.1
faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust
not voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc, Cuzz, SpaceAnemone
Well this is interesting. A whole lot of people who are still alive now aren't voting, like they don't want to be scummy for pushng me, but also don't want the focus to shift somewhere else. I'd say it's reasonable to assume that 1 scum to the bait of going for me, and well since I don't think iguana is scum that again points to PPS.
Vote count 2.2
The_Wine_Merchant (4): faust, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
Unfortunate wagon shift to a town while Robz, mcmc and Teproc (ok, Teproc is already sort-of gone here I think) hang back and watch town fight among themselves.
Vote count 2.3
faust (3): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
iguanaiguana (1): DatSwan
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc
Look I'm still a major wagon!
Vote count 2.4
DatSwan (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
faust (2): LaLight, pingpongsam
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Cuzz (1): DatSwan
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
The shift towards DatSwan begins, initiated by TWM and followed by Robz.
Vote count 2.5
DatSwan (5): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam
LaLight (2): iguanaiguana, faust
pingpongsam (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, Ghacob
And suddenly everyone is there. I mean kind of the same holds here as last time: All wagons that day were town, the alternative lynch built up is also town. Scum does not have a huge incentive to expose themselves by joining a mislynch.
Vote count 3.1
pingpongsam (2): faust, Ghacob
faust (1): Cuzz
LaLight (1): The_Wine_Merchant
not voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, iguanaiguana, LaLight
Here we start out for D3. There's some movement towards PPS. Good stuff. Ghacob is not a likely partner.
Vote count 3.2
pingpongsam (3): faust, Ghacob, iguanaiguana
LaLight (2): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (2): pingpongsam, Cuzz
We could be lynching PPS here. So sad. mcmc is the first to push us in a different and ultimately fatal direction.
D3 Final Vote Count
LaLight (5): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, faust, iguanaiguana
pingpongsam (1): Ghacob
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (1): Cuzz
Final wagon for reference. I wish I didn't switch here. PPS can't really be blamed for moving on LaLight, that is just self-preservation.[/list]
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Scummy: mcmc, PPS
Townie: Ghacob
Meh: Robz, Cuzz
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
wait, what? who should they have protected, pps?
Maybe. Or you know, maybe the PR who got killed tonight.
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
wait, what? who should they have protected, pps?
Uh TWM was a pretty clear choice IMO
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
wait, what? who should they have protected, pps?
Uh TWM was a pretty clear choice IMO
oh yeah, I'm being stupid. but there's like mad wifom with this stuff, and iguana has been so towny this game that it will completely shatter my world if he turns out not to be, so i don't think he would have been a bad choice either. not sure it's worth the surprise that faust is expressing.
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I'm a VT.
Would be interested to hear the reasoning that led Ghacob to protect a claimed VT over a claimed PR.
wait, what? who should they have protected, pps?
Uh TWM was a pretty clear choice IMO
oh yeah, I'm being stupid. but there's like mad wifom with this stuff, and iguana has been so towny this game that it will completely shatter my world if he turns out not to be, so i don't think he would have been a bad choice either. not sure it's worth the surprise that faust is expressing.
Nah, I definitely misplayed.
My attempts at explanation why were trying to say that I was so busy worrying about PR/VT as a means of getting better odds at scumhunting, that I forgot about the reason to care about PRs in the first place, their Power
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Cuzz can claim ahead of McMc to keep things moving.
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Cuzz can claim ahead of McMc to keep things moving.
Sure. VT.
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I'm going to reread mcmc first, as I think I will be less biased there.
I am confused by the amount of people posting at 4am. Also I have come around to agree that iguana's statement is slightly more likely to be made by town and that cuzz's reaction has been the scummiest.
Lalight want to elaborate on your robz read I didn't get weird vibes from him at all.
Also datswan is town, I think he unnecessarily attacks galz and gets miffed more often as town.
Some early reads. Town on iguana is unsurprising. Town on DatSwan is interesting considering that I think he was later part of the lynching wagon. Scumread on a player who is still alive and could well be scum gives some townpoints.
Then he asks a lot of questions. Which is good stuff, but I think scum!mcmc can easily replicate that.
On the other hand, this series of posts has been scummier than what DatSwan did.
Vote: Cuzz
Dissagree vote: datswan
Here is a pretty dramatic change... Just when I join on Cuzz, mcmc decides to leave the wagon and join a wagon on one of his former townreads instead. Not seeing a reason for that change in perspective so far.
I could definitely lynch pps or space.
Interesting.
Slight Scum reads on Teproc and Sir Clemons
For posterity. This is before the Clemens wagon has picked up.
Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
This is a townie bit.
And he continues to push against current wagons. To which I say it would be good had we lynched someone else, but it feels like the thing scum!mcmc wants to do here.
So that being said I think Space has been scummy, is a potential partner with both PPS who I think is scum and Galz who other people think is scum. I actually would be very happy with a Space lynch if people don't like my PPS case.
For what its worth I don't think Space and galz are partners, I think scum!PPS started the galz wagon and scum!space is staying off if possible while not arguing for town!Galz
Here's shifthing foucs away from PPS and onto Space, which isn't great.
Actually gonna end this with Vote: SpaceAnemone much better than my PPS case
Yeah man that's not looking great.
And that's D1. Gonna leave it at that for now.
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I’m following along waiting for the other claims. Let’s just say i am very excited about going last!
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We're just waiting on McMc.
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If you're looking for something to do while we wait for mass claim to be over, try re-reading the living players and trying to figure out the scum team.
I think arguably everyone should post their guess at the scum team by day end. Yes, that allows scum to know all of our reads and maybe gets them a more favorable LyLo situation down the road, but it also forces scum to essentially produce a fake read on everyone else. We can interrogate each other's lists and reasoning and maybe expose scum that way. Scum is one town vote on any remaining day from winning the game, so they should all feel pressured to get town on their lists.
And as town, we need to figure out the team correctly ASAP or we just lose.
I mean, we are almost certainly going to lose. But maybe we can do it in style and with a little more effort than this? When >50% of players are lurking, it's really easy for scum to hide among them and be indistinguishable.
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Can we have a 48 hour extension because two people are VLA all week?
i guess
When does the day actually end then?
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I’m following along waiting for the other claims. Let’s just say i am very excited about going last!
How about you use your time constructively while waiting for claims?
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@Robz - On D2 you expressed that all 3 of TWM, PPS, Iguana are town.
TWM & Iguana are indeed town. How do you feel today about PPS?
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Continued mcmc reread. Not going in as much detail as I am worried I may be too slow otherwise.
So here is the thing about a scum!Faust
First of all, scum!Faust would defend town!Iguana as town, and stick to his read there. He'd see it as something he would do as town, and therefore do it even more stringently than he would as town. So Faust defending me does not give him town points. He's made a point of IC-ing me as scum before, even, in Rewind Mafia.
But here's the thing.
If Faust is scum, then he's being bossy in the scum!QT, and depending on his partners, his partners may just be like "Yeah, Faust, you do whatever and that's fine." So regardless, if he's scum he's going to have a lot of control of the kill.
So would have Faust chosen to kill Galzria?
Scum!Faust knows that he tunneled town!Galzria and town!Clemens yesterday. Why does he choose to kill Galzria and make himself look bad? Maybe just because he believes he can survive the scrutiny? Maybe he tunneled Galzria because he saw an opportunity to do so and he knows that town!Galz is a threat to him, and then at night he went for the kill because the lynch didn't work out for him? This assumes that scum!Faust's #1 priority in this game is getting Galzria dead. But actually in my experience of several games on scum!Faust's team, he usually doesn't have those kinds of priorities or worry too much about his opponents.
So then there's the other possibility: someone saw the opportunity to set up Faust.
If Faust is town, scum probably noticed that he spent all day tunneling town. Then they can notice also that if they kill Galzria, it would make Faust look bad and expose that he tunneled two towns. And they get to off a strong town player at the same time.
So this logic actually explains the Galzria kill much better, and it points to the person who had immediately had a thorough case on Faust at the start of the day.
TLDR: If Faust is town, it points to scum!PPS, and possibly also a scum!Space partner.
So I guess I'll try this out and let's see what other people think:
Vote: PPS
This is an insanely smart post. No way scum!faust kills Galz. Obviously my conspiracy theorist brain wants to believe when both my scum reads turn up with a town pr/result and the two wagons I didn't like turned out to be town its all a scum ploy but it really does fit better than scum!faust. I could see a scum Lalight/Twm/Robz team doing this kill/push which does still allow the pps/space result to be true though.
This post is important, not only because it has an argument for town!me, but also because I find it hard to believe that scum!mcmc reacts this way when iguana exposes their framing plan.
Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?
I do think scum!datswan is likely to want to kill town!galz
On the other hand, he plants this seed.
I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
Less than stellar reads.
Datswan Case
This is a really good case.
I'm a sheepy sheep.
vote: lalight
D3 starts with this. Uh man this looks like a set up for a mislynch.
Some stuff that I will redact until mcmc has claimed.
Making a bigger post and noticed this.
The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.
I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.
Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though. There's 3 scum out there, super unlikely both of them are town.
Vote: PPS
what do you think we get from PPS's flip? he only town confirmed space. You are jumping to the only thing we could get is he has a result from last night he would tell us then we would lynch him to confirm the result? If it was a helpful result i'm gonna go ahead and guess he would have claimed. PPS is not an informative lynch more than his alignment really.
Gotta say I don't like that thing that mcmc has going on with PPS where he finds him scummy but always finds an excuse to not be voting for him.
PPS voters (reason for)
Day 1: cuzz(rvs), space(rvs), mcmc(case), robz(sheep), cuzz(scummy pps post): 3
Day 2: iguana(post claim case), faust(scummy pps post), datswan(omgus): 3
Day 3: faust(deaths?), ghacob(sheep), iguana(wagon case), cuzz(scummy pps post): 4
So Day one I pushed a pps case very hard, we had it turns out two other wagons on town so there was no need or reason for scum to join my wagon over the others aside from the fact that I was the one pushing the case. However since then, PPS claimed cop and now has gotten up to l-1 at a point. I guess this didn't tell me as much as I wanted, it does make faust and iguana feel scummier to me ugh but they were the lalight pushers which makes them townier.
I think i'm at:
Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob
Hrumph and suddenly he doesn't find PPS scummy anymore. I don't quite see what changed his mind.
Cause it's like, either Faust is scum, and he shot scummy Galz because he thought he needed to shoot a strong player to justify being alive D2, and then he shot Space because he wanted to frame PPS and he knew he would have to kill Space after town!PPS flipped an investigative role. So in a world where PPS is town, Faust is probably scum because he's still alive.
But in the world where Faust is town, probably PPS is scum trying to frame the dude.
Why are people so convinced that faust has to be part of some sort of framing plan being with the nightkils.
Galz is a super strong townie, Space was confirmed town by cop, aren't the reasons they died just obvious and have nothing specific to do with faust.
Now that is in direct opposition to what he said earlier and definitely sound more like the thing scum!mcmc would be saying. Dropped your mask there?
Ghacob has 13 posts. Why is he being townread by others?
Part of a longer post that probably says "Ghacob is not my partner".
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I should say that I will be travelling to the UK to among other things visit Space and will thus be VLA starting Friday. I hope to get my rereads finished before that.
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mcmc tl;dr: He played a relatively towny game D1 and early D2, but since then has become increasingly scummy.
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I am a vt.
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schadd I swear if you actually put an actual odd night cop into this setup...
julie i swear it's so hard to bear it
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I've reread two people.
I think I solved the game; convincing the other three towns will be tough but I think we can do it. Maybe maybe maybe!
I'm not gunna share though. I want to hear PPS' claim and everyone's scum team guesses. Then I'll try to figure out how to make sure we lynch the whole scum team one after another.
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No one vote!
Except scum, if you want, can vote.
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In the end, if I am right about 2/3 (or 3/3, wouldn't that be cool?) but for someone reason we can't pull it off, then I will still feel pretty good about losing. But if I am wrong about 2/3 or 3/3 (dead wrong all game, wouldn't that be awful?) then I will feel sorrrta bad.
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Feeling good about winning feels like a (remote) possibility right now!
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Dammit if you actually reread DatSwan it's super obvious why he refused to lynch Lalight. They had this little exchange EoD1 and he got a strong townread on LL from that, which turned out to be right.
Dammit I wish I noticed that and I could have argued against his lynch more AND I could have tempered my scum read on LL.
Oh well we can still win MAYBE!
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I'm not sure it's going to be all that great to have everyone attempting to call the whole scumteam. I think that leaves us more open to manipulation than trying to hit them one at a time.
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I had a very real reason that I'd still rather wait until it's finished to discuss
Haven't forgotten this.
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I'm not sure it's going to be all that great to have everyone attempting to call the whole scumteam. I think that leaves us more open to manipulation than trying to hit them one at a time.
Do you know who you want to hit first?
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I've reread two people.
I think I solved the game; convincing the other three towns will be tough but I think we can do it. Maybe maybe maybe!
I'm not gunna share though. I want to hear PPS' claim and everyone's scum team guesses. Then I'll try to figure out how to make sure we lynch the whole scum team one after another.
Well it's good to hear you found some new motivation. Just remember that I will be gone by Friday, so I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts before that.
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Right now I'd say the scumteam is either PPS/mcmc/Robz or swap one of mcmc/Robz with Cuzz.
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I mean, Cuzz man. I don't remember anything about that guy. That's not a good sign.
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Right now I'd say the scumteam is either PPS/mcmc/Robz or swap one of mcmc/Robz with Cuzz.
Do you think a McMc/Robz scumpartner team would look like this?
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I'm not sure it's going to be all that great to have everyone attempting to call the whole scumteam. I think that leaves us more open to manipulation than trying to hit them one at a time.
Do you know who you want to hit first?
ugh, probably faust
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I think it’s faust and cuzz... and someone.
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I think Faust too.
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Robz is town.
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Robz I will do just about anything to get you to get your head in the game. We can actually win but we really need you.
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I think it’s faust and cuzz... and someone.
What about your brother?
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Robz I will do just about anything to get you to get your head in the game. We can actually win but we really need you.
Yeah, I will, I'll have more time very very soon, promise.
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I think it’s faust and cuzz... and someone.
What about your brother?
I'm not sure. Very on the fence.
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There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lynching lurkers. You just made it sound like lurking people are per se more likely scum, which I don't think is true. I also don't think it is harder for scum to be active than for town.
Which lurker would you lynch today?
I do think it actually is harder to be active as scum, at least in my experience. I am dreading my first scum game after my recent mafia hiatus because I get paralyzed with the fear of drawing attention to myself.
The language in this post is like iguana-level authentic town sounding. Not saying you can't write those words as scum, just saying it sounds really legit.
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Then again, his activity level did drop a lot. Cuzz, can you address that? How do we know that you haven't been afraid of drawing attention to yourself?
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Would lynch today: SirClemens, LL, Datswan, Robz, pps, maybe Space
Would not lynch today: mcmc, TWM, ii, Galz, faust, Teproc
Cuzz is, like, not partners with Robz. So if he's scum, the only possible partner on his would lynch list here is PPS.
Do you really list all your partners as "would not lynch" on your first reads list? Ofc he could be partners with PPS still.
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Should we have a soft deadline reasonably soonish? Saturday is really tough and likely we will not have a lot of people around right at deadline (I probably won't be).
I'd be willing to lynch pps, Clemens, LaLight, DatSwan and Space roughly in order of preference. Robz, too, but that doesn't seem as popular at the moment. My earlier town-ish reads on TWM and faust are also beginning to evaporate, but there are many better choices for today. I still lean town on Galz and want no part of that wagon. Mcmc is obvtown, Teproc and iguana probtown.
Look at all those towns! And then PPS on top. Does scum do that D1, even if PPS is their partner?
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Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.
It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P
Cool.
Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.
Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about
I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.
I cannot fathom what you possibly could think you’ve discovered although I can fathom why you might tease a fake result on someone with a somewhat substantial D1 wagon, and then withhold a claim until you’ve outed two PRs.
Vote: TWM
This is more how a VT reacts than how a mafia goon who didn't kill reacts to TWM softclaiming that he jailed Cuzz.
Cuzz did get jailed btw folks. I think a lot of the scum teams that exist with him on it would have had him perform the kill. Low profile AF.
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Cuzz, I would like you to explain your lack of activity this game as thoroughly as you possibly can.
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Am I supposed to claim yet because I am an odd night cop with a scum result that makes this whole thing super easy but continue on if you must.
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Am I supposed to claim yet because I am an odd night cop with a scum result that makes this whole thing super easy but continue on if you must.
Yeah dude you're supposed to claim.
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
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I had a very real reason that I'd still rather wait until it's finished to discuss
Haven't forgotten this.
The order was essentially in ascending order of confidence in what they *ought* to have been claiming, in an attempt to a. give those who had not said (what I thought of as) alignment indicative things as little time as possible to communicate with their partner before claiming something b. to lure my biggest scumread at the time, faust into a false sense of security in regards to how I viewed him, leading to him not thinking as carefully how he claimed. Cuzz was at the bottom with me as *surely*, my perfectly accurate method for deducing whether one was claiming VT or PR (now 1/3 I think?), pinged Cuzz as claiming VT, no doubt about it,
as emphasized in this post:
Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"
[wrong things]
I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?
I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be
vote: PPS
@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?
in regards to this post:
hey really sorry I got really far behind on this game and am trying to catch up, but I really really do not see why faust is out of the gate immediately voting for two claimed PRs when we've had two mislynches and are in a not so great spot.
I never did get around to my planned full reread of faust but he has generally been rubbing me the wrong for much of the game. town!faust is a slick scumhunter and digs for evidence and builds cases on people and pushes them and I just do not see much of that this game. combined with the above it's time for a vote: faust
PPE: 1 and boy is it a doozy
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Wait what you’re claiming a literal scum result on mcmc?
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Cuzz, I would like you to explain your lack of activity this game as thoroughly as you possibly can.
Ok so there’s crazy shit going on, but to address this post I really am sorry about being garbagetown this game. Basically I got back into mafia over the summer after a long hiatus, and had forgotten how much fun it was, but at the end of the summer I promised myself I would take another break until the next summer because of how much it tends to suck me in and take over my life (I work in academia and tend to have more free time in the summer; other times not so much). Anyway, I broke that promise for this game and I thought one game wouldn’t hurt, but it was probably a mistake and I’ve been busier irl than I expected. I have never replaced out of a game and didn’t want to start here so I’ve been trying to keep up, but I did get majorly behind the last few days and haven’t felt informed enough to contribute a ton
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Vote count 4.1
mcmcsalot (1): pingpongsam
not voting (6): Robz888, faust, mcmcsalot, Ghacob, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 ends monday, march 19th at 13:00 forum time.
mod notes
- deadline extunsion
- robz and mcmc are VLA this week
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Right now I'd say the scumteam is either PPS/mcmc/Robz or swap one of mcmc/Robz with Cuzz.
Do you think a McMc/Robz scumpartner team would look like this?
Haven't seen anything in my mcmc reread that makes me think they are not partners. Robz reread is of course still to be done.
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ugh, probably faust
I think it’s faust and cuzz... and someone.
I think Faust too.
That does not look good. I thought we agreed that I cannot be scum.
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Curious that this isn't a result on me, because that's what I would expect from scum!PPS.
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
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This is a fun result from PPS. I think PPS and Faust are partners. More later.
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Curious that this isn't a result on me, because that's what I would expect from scum!PPS.
Oh and I’m sure you meant like a town result right?
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faust is scum, yo
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This is a fun result from PPS. I think PPS and Faust are partners. More later.
Don’t be an idiot.
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.
Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."
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I had a very real reason that I'd still rather wait until it's finished to discuss
Haven't forgotten this.
The order was essentially in ascending order of confidence in what they *ought* to have been claiming, in an attempt to a. give those who had not said (what I thought of as) alignment indicative things as little time as possible to communicate with their partner before claiming something b. to lure my biggest scumread at the time, faust into a false sense of security in regards to how I viewed him, leading to him not thinking as carefully how he claimed. Cuzz was at the bottom with me as *surely*, my perfectly accurate method for deducing whether one was claiming VT or PR (now 1/3 I think?), pinged Cuzz as claiming VT, no doubt about it,
as emphasized in this post:
Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"
[wrong things]
I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?
I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be
vote: PPS
@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?
in regards to this post:
hey really sorry I got really far behind on this game and am trying to catch up, but I really really do not see why faust is out of the gate immediately voting for two claimed PRs when we've had two mislynches and are in a not so great spot.
I never did get around to my planned full reread of faust but he has generally been rubbing me the wrong for much of the game. town!faust is a slick scumhunter and digs for evidence and builds cases on people and pushes them and I just do not see much of that this game. combined with the above it's time for a vote: faust
PPE: 1 and boy is it a doozy
I don’t understand the part that leads you to have total confidence that I was a VT
Secondly, why was my post above in which I express suspicion on faust summarized so pithily by you as “[wrong things]”
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.
Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."
I’m starting to buy this.
Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps
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Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps
I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.
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Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps
I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.
Hey maybe! That’d be cool!
In the meantime, would you care to give like an impromptu, off the cuff detailed summary of your thoughts on faust this game?
Ghacob, wanna get in on that too while we’re at it?
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Curious that this isn't a result on me, because that's what I would expect from scum!PPS.
Oh and I’m sure you meant like a town result right?
Err, no? I thought PPS would try to go frame me. Ironically that seems unnecessary.
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.
Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."
I think I've made it clear that I townread Ghacob.
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I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.
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It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.
This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.
Look, I can make it explicit for you, not that I have not clamored this very thing for the past 2 days: PPS is scum.
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And Cuzz is probably his partner.
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Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason...
And Cuzz is probably his partner.
lol
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So PPS expects us to believe a lot of things!
1) He expects us to believe that either there are 5 town PRs, the maximum allowed in the game, or that Ghacob and McMcsalot are partners. Even if Ghacob is scum, he expects us to believe that the setup includes a full jailkeeper, a one shot cop, an odd night cop, and an even night watcher.
2) He expects us to believe that scum decided they didn't need to kill him at night.
3) He is claiming a result, so he's also claiming that scum didn't block him, or investigate him in order to determine that he would get a shot redirect him.
So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.
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I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.
First, fuck you.
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Second, I am in the process of doing and showing the work, I just haven't done it yet. I'm at the front desk of a climbing gym right now trying to write this up and juggle the little kids who want rental shoes at the same time. I can't just produce all of my thoughts magically in a few seconds.
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So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.
Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)
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I'd say I'm like 65% believing PPS's claim.
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Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.
Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.
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So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.
Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)
It's not just that we have a bunch of claimed PRs. It's also that PPS has claimed to have gotten two results without any interference at all. Despite the fact that he claimed his role D2. So schadd gave town 5 PRs but scum is just a bunch of goons?
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Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.
Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.
What about McMc, Faust, PPS?
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Faust and PPS voted for each other on both D2 and D3, and both of them found reasons to end up on another (town) person by the end of the day both days. They are partners. Look at their voting patterns.
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Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.
Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.
What about McMc, Faust, PPS?
I agree that faust and PPS have some interactions that seem partner-y, like they are trying too hard to replicate their normal antagonism. And you're right that PPS and mcmc could actually both be scum. My problem with this team is it leaves out Cuzz, who is my gut-read most likely scum.
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I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.
First, fuck you.
Was actually referring to Robz and Cuzz. Sorry if I offended you.
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So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.
Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)
As I understand, this setup has been reviewed by a senior mafiascum mod.
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I cannot be shamed!
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Faust and PPS voted for each other on both D2 and D3, and both of them found reasons to end up on another (town) person by the end of the day both days. They are partners. Look at their voting patterns.
Is it now suddenly my fault that noone wanted to lynch PPS, and people wanted to lynch town instead...?
D2 I stopped voting PPS because after all, he was a claimed investigative PR and there was a chance that scum would just kill him off. D3 if I remember correctly was you crusading for a LaLight lynch and stopping any other wagon building dead in its tracks.
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Sweet, this makes things easier for me. I am town. Faust mentioned how my scum read of PPS dissipated over days 2 and 3, that is because as a claimed cop, there was no reason to try spend lots of energy reading him until he either A) died or B) gave us some results that would very much inform our read of him. So I scum read him day one and then he claimed cop and that backed down and now he has given me the answer of his alignment.
I will be going through and checking pps for partner interactions ect because knowing he is scum I think my time is better spent helping us find his partners then trying to prove he is scum. I believe I have played a relatively towny game, my recent drop off in activity has been due to being on vacation and Day 2 was very difficult for me because of PPS claim.
Very quickly I do think if you look at the claim from a scum!pps point of view it does make a lot of sense. Day 1 I argued hard for PPS and Space to be lynched, I argued against the Galz and Clem wagons very strongly and I think was generally town read. I undoubtedly would have pursued those reads the next day to some amount of success as both clem and galz were town, and PPS stops that by making sure he claims a pr(he knows we won't lynch) and claims a result on my other read so that in the event I still pursue lynching space it "confirms" his pr claim. Space is then conveniently killed the next day and pps has no additional results for us until this scum read on me.
Finally in what world and why does scum!mcmc prevent claims the way I did yesterday.
Off to look at pps for partners
PPE:10
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On second thought I don't actually think mcmc and PPS can both be scum. If thy were, that means this strategy was proposed ahead of time, and I don't think they would wait until halfway through this day, in the middle of our family vacation, to pull the trigger on it.
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Finally in what world and why does scum!mcmc prevent claims the way I did yesterday.
I have done that very thing as scum before and see no reason why you wouldn't.
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Finally in what world and why does scum!mcmc prevent claims the way I did yesterday.
I have done that very thing as scum before and see no reason why you wouldn't.
But you're on the mcmc=town side of this, right?
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thread locked
D1 final vote count.
SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (0):
with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
D2 Final Vote Count
DatSwan (6): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam, mcmcsalot
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, faust, DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): Ghacob
with 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch
D3 Final Vote Count
LaLight (5): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, faust, iguanaiguana
pingpongsam (1): Ghacob
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (1): Cuzz
with 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
- 1195 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg749113#msg749113), 1243 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg749213#msg749213)
D1 Faust gives hedgy weak townreads on PPS pretty much all day. He ends on Clemens, PPS ends on LaLight. Both town, but everyone (except possible space, who was on Robz) was voting for town by EoD1 so it doesn't mean as much. I would expect, however, that scum tried to split themselves up across multiple wagons on D1 to end up with a low concentration of scum on each wagon regardless of which way town ends up deciding to mislynch.
D2 PPS gives his case on Faust, and both spend a good part of the day voting for each other. But by day end, they are voting for Lalight and DatSwan. Again, they are separate town wagons by the end of the day, and both are complaining about how they don't think their wagon is as likely to be scum. I think this is classic scum going for the bus and hoping it doesn't take so that they can get a mislynch through without looking like the primary driver of the mislynch. D2 is the same situation, everyone is on a town except possibly Space on Robz, so again I think scum wants to split up across different wagons here.
D3 is the only day where it's really different. Here, Faust and PPS are committed to their cases on each other from yesterday, and open the day voting for each other. But I unfortunately push Lalight really hard, and LL doesn't really defend. So both PPS and Faust see an opportunity to jump ship and move from bussing to voting Lalight.
It's hard to say anything definitive because so many of the substantial wagons this game have been on town, but I think the narrative for PPS and Faust looks stronger than any other single partner narrative out there. [/list][/list]
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Finally in what world and why does scum!mcmc prevent claims the way I did yesterday.
I have done that very thing as scum before and see no reason why you wouldn't.
But you're on the mcmc=town side of this, right?
Dunno. I was on PPS and mcmc are both scum before the claim, I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense if they are both scum.
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So a helpful thing is that scum knew pps was going to claim as I'm sure that was pre-planned, looking at reactions to his claim now
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How funny it would have been had mcmc claimed Miller.
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How funny it would have been had mcmc claimed Miller.
Is that what he was supposed to do per your plan?
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On second thought I don't actually think mcmc and PPS can both be scum. If thy were, that means this strategy was proposed ahead of time, and I don't think they would wait until halfway through this day, in the middle of our family vacation, to pull the trigger on it.
Also PPS/MCMC has one scum, Robz/iguana/faust/cuzz/ghacob has two scum, one mislynch and we lose so we definitely want to lynch me or pps.
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Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.
Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.
What about McMc, Faust, PPS?
as a scumteam? you think scum!pps is framing his own partner?
most likely teams:
pps/faust/Robz
pps/faust/Ghacob
faust/mcmc/Robz
I think faust is scum, I think exactly one of pps and mcmc is scum, and I think it's odd that no one is considering that ghacob could be scum. I think we got really unlucky with the dead PRs at the beginning of the game, but if you imagine some combination of Galz, Space, and TWM living longer, that's a decent slate of town powers, and it's a real possibility that that's all we ever had.
ppe: lots
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On second thought I don't actually think mcmc and PPS can both be scum. If thy were, that means this strategy was proposed ahead of time, and I don't think they would wait until halfway through this day, in the middle of our family vacation, to pull the trigger on it.
Also PPS/MCMC has one scum, Robz/iguana/faust/cuzz/ghacob has two scum, one mislynch and we lose so we definitely want to lynch me or pps.
But you have only like a 65% chance of being scum, whereas faust has like an 80% chance of being scum. (Note: These numbers were determined arbitrarily.)
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sp teproc and pps had an interesting back and forth when pps claimed result and teproc asked very specifically if it was a reads thing or a pr thing. Not sure partners do that.
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sp teproc and pps had an interesting back and forth when pps claimed result and teproc asked very specifically if it was a reads thing or a pr thing. Not sure partners do that.
Well Ghacob is town, so.
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On second thought I don't actually think mcmc and PPS can both be scum. If thy were, that means this strategy was proposed ahead of time, and I don't think they would wait until halfway through this day, in the middle of our family vacation, to pull the trigger on it.
Also PPS/MCMC has one scum, Robz/iguana/faust/cuzz/ghacob has two scum, one mislynch and we lose so we definitely want to lynch me or pps.
why would this not read "so we definitely want to lynch pps"?
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Oh hey mcmc, now that you have claimed, I finally get to ask:
Fun fact, there is no way everyone was Kung fu fighting.
What was this all about?
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Also cuzz came out and asked for PPS to fullclaim in his first post after PPS claimed the result, another ting I doubt a partner does.
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I don't think this is winnable anymore.
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I don't think this is winnable anymore.
Not sure if this is legit town frustration or feigned scum frustration.
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sp teproc and pps had an interesting back and forth when pps claimed result and teproc asked very specifically if it was a reads thing or a pr thing. Not sure partners do that.
Well Ghacob is town, so.
how are you willing to entertain the possibility of scum!iguana and not the possibility of scum!ghacob?
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On second thought I don't actually think mcmc and PPS can both be scum. If thy were, that means this strategy was proposed ahead of time, and I don't think they would wait until halfway through this day, in the middle of our family vacation, to pull the trigger on it.
Also PPS/MCMC has one scum, Robz/iguana/faust/cuzz/ghacob has two scum, one mislynch and we lose so we definitely want to lynch me or pps.
why would this not read "so we definitely want to lynch pps"?
Because its obvious I don't want to lynch myself, for the rest of town purely based on numbers lynching me or pps is smarter than one of the 5 other players since there is only two scum in that group.
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Things are getting crazy, so I am just going to do a scum to chum and try to be as clear as I possibly can. I wanted to save this for yesterday but now that scum is scrambling I think I should just lay it out there.
TOWN
Iguana
Ghacob
Robz
Cuzz
McMcsalot
Faust
PPS
Faust was the one who said that scum!PPS loves to bus. Scum needs only ONE mislynch to survive this game. Both PPS and Faust were super scummy going into this day. So PPS giving a false guilty on McMcsalot only tempers my scumread on McMc ever so slightly. A false guilty on his own partner is absolutely the kind of gambit that PPS attempts at LyLo. His goal is very simple: he needs to convince us that this can't be the scum team. Look at the previous days and their partner interactions are pretty strong. And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
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Oh hey mcmc, now that you have claimed, I finally get to ask:
Fun fact, there is no way everyone was Kung fu fighting.
What was this all about?
Oh this was never about roles or anything. I was driving home from sams club with my wife and we passed a restaurant and on the sign which normally shows specials ect. it just said "there is no way everyone was kung fu fighting" and it hit me in a silly mood so I cracked up laughing to which my wife thought I was a lunatic so I decided to post it here to try and get a laugh.
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Things are getting crazy, so I am just going to do a scum to chum and try to be as clear as I possibly can. I wanted to save this for yesterday but now that scum is scrambling I think I should just lay it out there.
TOWN
Iguana
Ghacob
Robz
Cuzz
McMcsalot
Faust
PPS
Faust was the one who said that scum!PPS loves to bus. Scum needs only ONE mislynch to survive this game. Both PPS and Faust were super scummy going into this day. So PPS giving a false guilty on McMcsalot only tempers my scumread on McMc ever so slightly. A false guilty on his own partner is absolutely the kind of gambit that PPS attempts at LyLo. His goal is very simple: he needs to convince us that this can't be the scum team. Look at the previous days and their partner interactions are pretty strong. And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I really do not think PPS and mcmc are both scum. This is not how this bus would unfold, if it were the case.
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And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I feel that my reaction is pretty towny... what exactly do you think a towny reaction of me would look like? This is just riding the confirmation bias.
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Iguana must be town because he put himself on his reads list.
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Iguana must be town because he put himself on his reads list.
At least Robz is starting to be entertaining. That's like one step away from scumhunting Robz.
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And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I feel that my reaction is pretty towny... what exactly do you think a towny reaction of me would look like? This is just riding the confirmation bias.
town just does not talk like this
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Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.
Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.
What about McMc, Faust, PPS?
I agree that faust and PPS have some interactions that seem partner-y, like they are trying too hard to replicate their normal antagonism. And you're right that PPS and mcmc could actually both be scum. My problem with this team is it leaves out Cuzz, who is my gut-read most likely scum.
Then fucking read Cuzz again. And read my posts about why Cuzz is demonstrating town thinking from earlier today right before PPS claimed. The guy is town.
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I think Space would be a smart target for many PRs. Received some suspicion D1, not.likely to die at night. Hard to read.
First post from iguana regarding PPS claim and first one to defend rather than question
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And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I feel that my reaction is pretty towny... what exactly do you think a towny reaction of me would look like? This is just riding the confirmation bias.
town just does not talk like this
What does town talk like?
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I need more than to be right right now. I need the other towns to see it too :(
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I need more than to be right right now.
You need to be right right right right right right now!
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Things are getting crazy, so I am just going to do a scum to chum and try to be as clear as I possibly can. I wanted to save this for yesterday but now that scum is scrambling I think I should just lay it out there.
TOWN
Iguana
Ghacob
Robz
Cuzz
McMcsalot
Faust
PPS
Faust was the one who said that scum!PPS loves to bus. Scum needs only ONE mislynch to survive this game. Both PPS and Faust were super scummy going into this day. So PPS giving a false guilty on McMcsalot only tempers my scumread on McMc ever so slightly. A false guilty on his own partner is absolutely the kind of gambit that PPS attempts at LyLo. His goal is very simple: he needs to convince us that this can't be the scum team. Look at the previous days and their partner interactions are pretty strong. And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I really do not think PPS and mcmc are both scum. This is not how this bus would unfold, if it were the case.
I have a really strong feeling that we are going to lynch PPS, then we are going to lynch Faust, then the final day it is going to be just you, Cuzz and McMcsalot left.
If that happens, PLEASE reconsider.
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Okay, but I probably won't.
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Flashbacks to this:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9946.0
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And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I feel that my reaction is pretty towny... what exactly do you think a towny reaction of me would look like? This is just riding the confirmation bias.
town just does not talk like this
What does town talk like?
Cue me dancing and singing "What does the town say?"
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
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I will save Cuzz from Robz tomorrow.
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I think Space would be a smart target for many PRs. Received some suspicion D1, not.likely to die at night. Hard to read.
First post from iguana regarding PPS claim and first one to defend rather than question
Iguana then comes to the conclusion to vote for PPS actually so back to not thinking he is a partner. good
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Flashbacks to this:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9946.0
I have zero memory of this game.
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vote: PPS
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
Don't. There's no tomorrow if you vote for PPS.
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And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
I feel that my reaction is pretty towny... what exactly do you think a towny reaction of me would look like? This is just riding the confirmation bias.
town just does not talk like this
What does town talk like?
Cue me dancing and singing "What does the town say?"
All I think of is Stonehenge...
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How about we vote for no one right now, as I am in the middle of a re-read, and we have more time. And I'm legitimiately conflicted! And basically everyone knows I am town at this point. So I'm claiming my IC status and demanding a pause.
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Okay, that's fine. I did most of my reread. I need to step away from this game for the rest of the day anyway.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
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vote: PPS
is it weird that this didn't happen the second mcmc saw pps's claim?
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From my re-read. This, from Cuzz, is such a scummy thing to say, can't remember if I previously noted it.
There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
There is also almost always scum among the most active people in the game so this argument is bad. Basically activity level is very rarely indicative of alignment.
The argument is not bad. Lurking is scummy and objectively anti-town. It is possible for scum to be active, but harder, and active scum can be more easily caught later in the game. Lurking scum just continue to lurk because everyone in this community swings hard towards the “don’t lynch lurkers ever because activity is not indicative of alignment” side of things. People cherish their special reads and BS “scumslips” and vote for active players instead. Then half the active players get lynched, the other half get NKd, and before long it’s D3 and all the lurkers are still around and no one has anything they’ve said to go off of.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lynching lurkers. You just made it sound like lurking people are per se more likely scum, which I don't think is true. I also don't think it is harder for scum to be active than for town.
Which lurker would you lynch today?
I do think it actually is harder to be active as scum, at least in my experience. I am dreading my first scum game after my recent mafia hiatus because I get paralyzed with the fear of drawing attention to myself.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
I think scum!faust is very concerned we are going to wait to lynch him until he is VLA and unable to stop us.
Agree that this would be a performance of a lifetime from scum!ig.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
If you are town, why did we just mislynch over and over and over and you just melted into one mislynch after another or in the case of DatSwan weakly defended while not managing to convince anyone to change their mind? I've literally NEVER seen a game with you as town where you survived a long time and it went like this. I've seen LOTS of games where you, as scum, wriggled out of getting lynched day after day and finally won.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
He means that I made up my mind that he is scum and we lose tomorrow when we lynch him.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
Whoa, wtf. I told you not to be an idiot.
Vote faust before you vote me, for crying out loud.
I feel really good about faust being scum, like as good as I do about you being town.
You’ve let paranoia delude your thinking.
My result automatically reduces the lynch pool to two so it was important to let some interaction play out beforehand today.
If I had to calll a scum team it’s probably mcmc faust Cuzz but I would not completely write off ghacob, here. Robz’ reactions today are 100% town. The penny I flipped made the right call. I don’t think a town result on him today would have been nearly as useful.
PPE 9
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
If you are town, why did we just mislynch over and over and over and you just melted into one mislynch after another or in the case of DatSwan weakly defended while not managing to convince anyone to change their mind? I've literally NEVER seen a game with you as town where you survived a long time and it went like this. I've seen LOTS of games where you, as scum, wriggled out of getting lynched day after day and finally won.
I haven't even wriggled out of getting lynched. No one has even put in any effort to lynch me whatsoever at any point this game!
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He’s talking to faust and he’s totally right.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
I think scum!faust is very concerned we are going to wait to lynch him until he is VLA and unable to stop us.
Agree that this would be a performance of a lifetime from scum!ig.
town!faust can be concerned too!
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He’s talking to faust and he’s totally right.
oh oops thanks
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
+1 that this was indeed nonsense
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
If you are town, why did we just mislynch over and over and over and you just melted into one mislynch after another or in the case of DatSwan weakly defended while not managing to convince anyone to change their mind? I've literally NEVER seen a game with you as town where you survived a long time and it went like this. I've seen LOTS of games where you, as scum, wriggled out of getting lynched day after day and finally won.
A combination of town misplay by me but also Clemens and LaLight as well as scum being lucky. There's definitely other games where I sucked like this though. It's just that I usually die early and then you don't get to see me like this, and I can claim the moral highground because I correctly identified some people as town D1.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
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Vote faust before you vote me, for crying out loud.
Agreed.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
+1 that this was indeed nonsense
i am sorry, but when someone responds to "I want to vote pps" with "then we will lose" I take pause and air my thoughts. why would iguana wanting to vote pps make faust be concerned about being mislynched while absent? even if iguana has made up his mind about faust being scum, he seemed to imply that that he'd prefer to lynch pps today and then faust tomorrow if pps flips scum, when presumably faust would no longer be absent and then could defend himself. apparently, though I'm the idiot and this all makes perfect sense to everyone else.
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You're not an idiot, you're just mafia.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Well it's not surprising you thought that given how you voted, but a lot of people obviously disagreed. I am not sure that it does any good to call each other out over who pushed the worst mislynch, because everyone still alive pushed a lot of bad lynches.
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Re-reading Day 1, it is craaaazy how hard Teproc worked to redirect the lynch to Galz. Man does this guy not read Galz well.
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So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
+1 that this was indeed nonsense
i am sorry, but when someone responds to "I want to vote pps" with "then we will lose" I take pause and air my thoughts. why would iguana wanting to vote pps make faust be concerned about being mislynched while absent? even if iguana has made up his mind about faust being scum, he seemed to imply that that he'd prefer to lynch pps today and then faust tomorrow if pps flips scum, when presumably faust would no longer be absent and then could defend himself. apparently, though I'm the idiot and this all makes perfect sense to everyone else.
I'm on vacation for 11 days and thus would miss all of the next day.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Clemens was the d1 lynch. I have never played a game in which anyone was "obviously not scum" on D1.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Well it's not surprising you thought that given how you voted, but a lot of people obviously disagreed. I am not sure that it does any good to call each other out over who pushed the worst mislynch, because everyone still alive pushed a lot of bad lynches.
I mean, yes, that's right. But, unfairly for you, it makes more sense to tar and feather you for your bad opinions than it does for other players.
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Clemens was the d1 lynch. I have never played a game in which anyone was "obviously not scum" on D1.
You never played a game with an IC?!
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Mcmc was reeeally pushing PPS Day 1. It could have even worked. Does not look like a partners thing to me. CC: iguana
Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
Get your butt back on PPS this instant, Datswan is absolutely not getting lynched if you think you won't be around at least stick somewhere one of your town reads is voting so you can be useful.
Or gimmie your Datswan case before I vote you
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Well it's not surprising you thought that given how you voted, but a lot of people obviously disagreed. I am not sure that it does any good to call each other out over who pushed the worst mislynch, because everyone still alive pushed a lot of bad lynches.
I mean, yes, that's right. But, unfairly for you, it makes more sense to tar and feather you for your bad opinions than it does for other players.
At least I can showcase this game the next time I am scum and need to justify my bad reads!
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You're not an idiot, you're just mafia.
I'm not, though, is the thing.
So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
+1 that this was indeed nonsense
i am sorry, but when someone responds to "I want to vote pps" with "then we will lose" I take pause and air my thoughts. why would iguana wanting to vote pps make faust be concerned about being mislynched while absent? even if iguana has made up his mind about faust being scum, he seemed to imply that that he'd prefer to lynch pps today and then faust tomorrow if pps flips scum, when presumably faust would no longer be absent and then could defend himself. apparently, though I'm the idiot and this all makes perfect sense to everyone else.
I'm on vacation for 11 days and thus would miss all of the next day.
I did not know this! Makes a little more sense now!
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I'd like to remind everyone that faust lent considerable intellectual credibility to the Day 1 Sir Clemens lynch, which was not a good lynch.
A bit rich from the guy who advocated lynching Space, who by any reasonable metric would have been a worse lynch.
Oh, certainly a worse lynch. I think it was more obvious Clemens was not scum than Space, though.
Clemens was the d1 lynch. I have never played a game in which anyone was "obviously not scum" on D1.
You never played a game with an IC?!
ugh
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Also, after mcmc tells me to go back to PSS, faust immediately starts criticizing mcmc's inadequate case on PPS. Again, if this is the scumteam--mcmc, PPS, faust--it's like a reeeeally weird series of interactions. Which, okay, kudos to you guys I guess if that's the case, but no I really don't see it.
We should lynch faust, or alternatively I suppose mcmc. I think!
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Well, mcmc's pivot to Space soon after that makes the conspiracy a little more believable.
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RObz and pps both making strange we should lynch faust posts. We should lynch pps and if you think pps is town you should be arguing to lynch me not faust.
Lastly for those not convinced PPS is scum, it was very very obvious yesterday if pps was town he was an odd night cop which meant a result for sure today, but instead scum killed twm who had claimed a pr but not what.
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RObz and pps both making strange we should lynch faust posts. We should lynch pps and if you think pps is town you should be arguing to lynch me not faust.
Lastly for those not convinced PPS is scum, it was very very obvious yesterday if pps was town he was an odd night cop which meant a result for sure today, but instead scum killed twm who had claimed a pr but not what.
I'm more sure faust is scum than I am on either of you, why do you not get this?
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You're not an idiot, you're just mafia.
In my experience town makes the sort of mistakes like what Cuzz just made all the time. Scum not so much. It's easy to figure out what other players mean by things when you know their motivations and alignments.
So again the mistakes Cuzz makes look towny to me, not scummy.
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You're not an idiot, you're just mafia.
I'm not, though, is the thing.
So I think I am ready to vote for PPS.
You can interrogate me today, but once the night is over I'll be very VLA. Or you made up your mind and we just lose. Which I suppose is the case.
I kinda want iguana to be scum so I can congratulate him for the performance of a lifetime.
ok wait really? tell me this doesn't look like a scumslip from someone who knows pps is town.
Can you just stop posting nonsense. Clearly I am talking about me getting mislynched due to being absent.
+1 that this was indeed nonsense
i am sorry, but when someone responds to "I want to vote pps" with "then we will lose" I take pause and air my thoughts. why would iguana wanting to vote pps make faust be concerned about being mislynched while absent? even if iguana has made up his mind about faust being scum, he seemed to imply that that he'd prefer to lynch pps today and then faust tomorrow if pps flips scum, when presumably faust would no longer be absent and then could defend himself. apparently, though I'm the idiot and this all makes perfect sense to everyone else.
I'm on vacation for 11 days and thus would miss all of the next day.
I did not know this! Makes a little more sense now!
I've posted a thing in the VLA thread now. Probably should have done it earlier. I didn't want to tip scum off that I would be VLA hoping I get to be killed before it happens. Sodding PRs.
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I think mercy lynching Faust because he's scum and won't be around the next day anyway is completely fine.
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RObz and pps both making strange we should lynch faust posts. We should lynch pps and if you think pps is town you should be arguing to lynch me not faust.
Lastly for those not convinced PPS is scum, it was very very obvious yesterday if pps was town he was an odd night cop which meant a result for sure today, but instead scum killed twm who had claimed a pr but not what.
I'm more sure faust is scum than I am on either of you, why do you not get this?
Because thats stupid, I don't think you can really be more than 50% sure that faust is scum. I guess if you are town you know there is a 50% chance of scum in faust/iguana/cuzz/ghacob. so actually any town member has two sections where there is a 50% chance of finding scum
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RObz and pps both making strange we should lynch faust posts. We should lynch pps and if you think pps is town you should be arguing to lynch me not faust.
Lastly for those not convinced PPS is scum, it was very very obvious yesterday if pps was town he was an odd night cop which meant a result for sure today, but instead scum killed twm who had claimed a pr but not what.
Well it's possible that they were afraid of protective roles. Also with this being LyLo a new result from PPS isn't terrible since it doesn't prove anything.
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Robz can you elaborate your scum read on me, I know you thinks its weak but you have pushed towards scumreading me over pps
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I think mercy lynching Faust because he's scum and won't be around the next day anyway is completely fine.
At least I get to complain before I leave then! And not feeling a need to check f.ds occasionally would probably be nice. Downside is we lose more quickly. But is it worth it to extend the suffering? We probably should discuss this too much as we'll soon end up in RSP territory.
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I think mercy lynching Faust because he's scum and won't be around the next day anyway is completely fine.
At least I get to complain before I leave then! And not feeling a need to check f.ds occasionally would probably be nice. Downside is we lose more quickly. But is it worth it to extend the suffering? We probably should discuss this too much as we'll soon end up in RSP territory.
Well the only part that made me mad was when you called me lazy : )
Sorry if you are town but I really don't think so! Can you at least look at yourself from an outside perspective and see how you look scummyAF?
It's like:
Scum is playing well, town is playing poorly. That is evident.
So is active!town!Faust playing poorly, or is active!scum!Faust playing well?
Same thing with McMcsalot. Is he town playing poorly but putting in a lot of effort and failing? or is he scum playing well?
So in a vacuum scum!Faust and scum!McMc already make more sense than town for either of them.
OTOH town!Robz not trying too hard and getting nowhere makes a lot of sense.
Absent town!Teproc into trying to catch up town!Ghacob makes a lot of sense.
Too busy to reread and consequently unable to push his scum!Faust read town!Cuzz makes sense.
Robz, Ghacob, and Cuzz all make sense as town. If you look at them, you can see what they were thinking as town as the time through the whole game.
Faust doesn't really give off any towny vibes except maybe a little bit today as he's defending himself. McMc gives off towny vibes D1 ONLY. After that, he's scummy.
PPS is the only one who is like, uh, he's kinda like scum playing poorly if I am right about everyone else.
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I think it's my townreads much more than my scumreads who are really making it hard for me to re-evaluate and see anything other than McMcsalot, PPS, Faust.
I reread Robz, Cuzz, and Ghacob and they are all really towny and not partnery with people who are alive.
Robz is pushing this Cuzz & Faust thing, but Cuzz has been pushing Faust all game. And he's just towny, like, the way he talks.
Does scum!Cuzz with Faust as a partner really go into their winning LyLo situation pushing Faust and no one else?
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It seems you are right. I think that's just how it is for town!me: Either I play well and have good reads starting out and then scum is scared and kills me. Or I play badly and things look grim for town and scum leaves me alive because I suck and then it's a downward spiral as people think that I must be scum because I'm still there and haven't accomplished anything.
It wouldn't have to be this way if more people would play actively. But they don't and they get to live and maybe even get more out of the game in terms of fun than me by playing an anti-town game. It's kind of frustrating when I put it like that.
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I could see Ghacob as scum MAYBE. I could see Cuzz as scum MAYBE. MAYBE McMc is town instead of one of them.
Does scummy!scum!PPS really think he's going to fake a result on anyone other than Faust and get that person lynched? If scum!PPS knows he is going down, maybe he just wants to use his fake results to create a false clear on his partner.
People have been calling him scum for days.
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PPS is the only one who is like, uh, he's kinda like scum playing poorly if I am right about everyone else.
That's an astute assessment on a town player.
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It seems you are right. I think that's just how it is for town!me: Either I play well and have good reads starting out and then scum is scared and kills me. Or I play badly and things look grim for town and scum leaves me alive because I suck and then it's a downward spiral as people think that I must be scum because I'm still there and haven't accomplished anything.
It wouldn't have to be this way if more people would play actively. But they don't and they get to live and maybe even get more out of the game in terms of fun than me by playing an anti-town game. It's kind of frustrating when I put it like that.
I think everyone tried medium hard and people are trying especially hard right now so it's not so fair to say we are not active.
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It seems you are right. I think that's just how it is for town!me: Either I play well and have good reads starting out and then scum is scared and kills me. Or I play badly and things look grim for town and scum leaves me alive because I suck and then it's a downward spiral as people think that I must be scum because I'm still there and haven't accomplished anything.
It wouldn't have to be this way if more people would play actively. But they don't and they get to live and maybe even get more out of the game in terms of fun than me by playing an anti-town game. It's kind of frustrating when I put it like that.
I think everyone tried medium hard and people are trying especially hard right now so it's not so fair to say we are not active.
It's true that this game has been okay, and there have definitely been worse. Yes people are active now when it's easy and exciting to be active, but they got here by lurking and being in the background. I don't apply this to you; that you are still alive is a bit of a miracle.
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Also @Faust
Almost every single dead townie died calling for your lynch before they died. That's a thing too.
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It seems you are right. I think that's just how it is for town!me: Either I play well and have good reads starting out and then scum is scared and kills me. Or I play badly and things look grim for town and scum leaves me alive because I suck and then it's a downward spiral as people think that I must be scum because I'm still there and haven't accomplished anything.
It wouldn't have to be this way if more people would play actively. But they don't and they get to live and maybe even get more out of the game in terms of fun than me by playing an anti-town game. It's kind of frustrating when I put it like that.
I think everyone tried medium hard and people are trying especially hard right now so it's not so fair to say we are not active.
It's true that this game has been okay, and there have definitely been worse. Yes people are active now when it's easy and exciting to be active, but they got here by lurking and being in the background. I don't apply this to you; that you are still alive is a bit of a miracle.
Frickin PR shenanigans
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Also @Faust can you show me who the scum team is really? Like figure out the game and make it make sense to me. If you are town, I feel like you would be able to do this by now.
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woah iguana where did this mcmc has been scummy thing come from? We both pushed lalight which unfortunately flipped town. I actually do not think I have played a bad game, I for once don't wish I pushed harder day one, I pushed as hard as I could against the awful galz and clem wagons. Day two my reads were destroyed by the pps claim/space result, and day three I really thought lalight was scummy, I even continued doing rereads and worked up a ghacob case yesterday while everyone was doing nothing waiting for scum to join you and I and lynch lalight.
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woah iguana where did this mcmc has been scummy thing come from? We both pushed lalight which unfortunately flipped town. I actually do not think I have played a bad game, I for once don't wish I pushed harder day one, I pushed as hard as I could against the awful galz and clem wagons. Day two my reads were destroyed by the pps claim/space result, and day three I really thought lalight was scummy, I even continued doing rereads and worked up a ghacob case yesterday while everyone was doing nothing waiting for scum to join you and I and lynch lalight.
PoE. And the thing about how scum has played a good game, so we need to look for people who are playing well right now, not people playing poorly.
Who do you think is the team?
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woah iguana where did this mcmc has been scummy thing come from? We both pushed lalight which unfortunately flipped town. I actually do not think I have played a bad game, I for once don't wish I pushed harder day one, I pushed as hard as I could against the awful galz and clem wagons. Day two my reads were destroyed by the pps claim/space result, and day three I really thought lalight was scummy, I even continued doing rereads and worked up a ghacob case yesterday while everyone was doing nothing waiting for scum to join you and I and lynch lalight.
PoE. And the thing about how scum has played a good game, so we need to look for people who are playing well right now, not people playing poorly.
Who do you think is the team?
PPS, Robz, Faust >> PPS, Robz, Cuzz >>>>>>>>>> PPS, Robz, Ghacob >> PPS, Faust, Cuzz
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woah iguana where did this mcmc has been scummy thing come from? We both pushed lalight which unfortunately flipped town. I actually do not think I have played a bad game, I for once don't wish I pushed harder day one, I pushed as hard as I could against the awful galz and clem wagons. Day two my reads were destroyed by the pps claim/space result, and day three I really thought lalight was scummy, I even continued doing rereads and worked up a ghacob case yesterday while everyone was doing nothing waiting for scum to join you and I and lynch lalight.
PoE. And the thing about how scum has played a good game, so we need to look for people who are playing well right now, not people playing poorly.
Who do you think is the team?
PPS, Robz, Faust >> PPS, Robz, Cuzz >>>>>>>>>> PPS, Robz, Ghacob >> PPS, Faust, Cuzz
Your brother is like so town. Tell me, tell me how is he possibly scum.
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PPS, RobzMcMc, Faust >> PPS, RobzMcMc, Cuzz >>>>>>>>>> PPS, RobzMcMc, Ghacob >> PPS, Faust, Cuzz
Right now I can switch Robz out for McMc and those guesses make a lot more sense to me.
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Post Count Part 3
223 - 157 - 119 - faust (2)
241 - 157 - 84 - iguanaiguana (2)
116 - 89 - 56 - mcmcsalot (5)
111 - 83 - 75 - Cuzz (2)
108 - 65 - 30 - Robz888 (2)
87 - 75 - 44 - pingpongsam (2)
50 - 39 - 27 - Teproc/Ghacob (1)
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PPS, RobzMcMc, Faust >> PPS, RobzMcMc, Cuzz >>>>>>>>>> PPS, RobzMcMc, Ghacob >> PPS, Faust, Cuzz
Right now I can switch Robz out for McMc and those guesses make a lot more sense to me.
This is silly, PPS, Mcmc, Faust, pps scum results cuzz and we win, PPS, Mcmc, cuzz/Ghacob PPS scum results faust and we win no way we go through the wasted time of bussing.
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PPS, RobzMcMc, Faust >> PPS, RobzMcMc, Cuzz >>>>>>>>>> PPS, RobzMcMc, Ghacob >> PPS, Faust, Cuzz
Right now I can switch Robz out for McMc and those guesses make a lot more sense to me.
This is silly, PPS, Mcmc, Faust, pps scum results cuzz and we win, PPS, Mcmc, cuzz/Ghacob PPS scum results faust and we win no way we go through the wasted time of bussing.
I guess Robz would vote Cuzz if you three were the team.
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Oh we should keep in mind TWM Jailkept cuzz night one and robz night two but PPS has certaintly been doing the nightkill
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Okay, McMc, that is the first good point I've seen in a while for why someone should be considered town. Can you please explain to me why you think Robz is scum though?
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Maybe it's PPS, Faust, Ghacob?
I noticed a while ago that Ghacob was reading the thread but not posting. I was waiting to see his posts but now it looks like he's lurking, which could be a little scummy.
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Honestly part of my townread on Ghacob has just been because TWM was SO DAMN SURE he was town.
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Hi I'm here. The majority of my time has been catching up, followed by a bit of time spent trying to think of what I want to say
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okay, it's gotta be PPS, Faust, and Robz unless town really really screwed the pooch, if thats the team day one faust ends on clem and pps on galz which faust was on but eventually moved to clem, robz sat on space sheeping me, day two robz and pps are on day three faust and pps are on.
Day 3 is interesting as if I assume iguana is town as I do, pss and faust are the only potential non town on wagon. if faust is town that means cuzz has to be scum or else there was zero scum on the day one wagon and only one scum on the day 3 wagon
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no but give a real case on Robz, not just "he's scum he's scum."
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Okay, McMc, that is the first good point I've seen in a while for why someone should be considered town. Can you please explain to me why you think Robz is scum though?
Because Robz has been useless. I will be honest part of me finds robz scummy because I will be furious to lose to scum!robz here the "i'm useless so I'm town" meta is obnoxious. Then there is the fact that robz had to change the way he acted towards me as scum because in smash bros mafia I caught him right out of the gate because he was too suspicious of me. It would fit that robz would want to buddy me ever so slightly this game so as not to tip me off hence his joining me in voting space day one. He has since pretty much said that I am scum and PPS is town but keeps not wanting to commit to why or that its a strong read, instead he keeps bringing up that he's more confident that faust is scum, though he has also said he is sure that cuzz is scum. Those are pretty strong reads outside the cop one for one for someone who hasn't given much of reads all game.
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It's faust and mcmc for sure, scum number three is the tough one. Probably is Cuzz, could actually be Ghacob maybe, even.
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Iguana if you have a second, control find rob posts and see anything he has said about pps which has made him so certain I am scum and pps is town all the sudden
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IDK you guys are both convincing it's pretty terrible, whichever one is currently talking is the one making the most sense.
It's hilarious to think of the two of you on vacation together though and you both sat down on separate computers to madly type on behalf of the other's lynch and your own defense.
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Also @Faust can you show me who the scum team is really? Like figure out the game and make it make sense to me. If you are town, I feel like you would be able to do this by now.
I don't think I have the time and motivation to do this. But I'm coming around to mcmc being town. That would make my scumteam PPS/Robz/Cuzz.
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Robz can you address how if PPS is town scum would totally redirect him or roleblock him or investigate and know to kill him and the fact that they've done none of these things means that he's basically living confirmed scum?
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Also @Faust can you show me who the scum team is really? Like figure out the game and make it make sense to me. If you are town, I feel like you would be able to do this by now.
I don't think I have the time and motivation to do this. But I'm coming around to mcmc being town. That would make my scumteam PPS/Robz/Cuzz.
That's kinda lame. Don't you have til Friday?
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Also @Faust can you show me who the scum team is really? Like figure out the game and make it make sense to me. If you are town, I feel like you would be able to do this by now.
I don't think I have the time and motivation to do this. But I'm coming around to mcmc being town. That would make my scumteam PPS/Robz/Cuzz.
That's kinda lame. Don't you have til Friday?
Yeah but I'm pretty busy tomorrow and I leave Friday morning.
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well everyone has posted, and McMc and PPS are still alive. So at least we can rule out town!PPS got redirected onto scum after copping town!PPS. One of them is scum. I think I am going to vote PPS still.
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well everyone has posted, and McMc and PPS are still alive. So at least we can rule out town!PPS got redirected onto scum after copping town!PPSMcMc. One of them is scum. I think I am going to vote PPS still.
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But, since you asked nicely, let's take a look at Cuzz. Picking Cuzz because that's really the weakest read here.
There is almost always scum among the lurkiest people in the game so I’m looking at Clemens, LL and I guess ii (again) at this point.
Notable omission of Robz here.
Would lynch today: SirClemens, LL, Datswan, Robz, pps, maybe Space
Would not lynch today: mcmc, TWM, ii, Galz, faust, Teproc
Look at me throwing in my scumpartners to "would lynch" at a time when they certainly won't be lynched!
Very unlikely I'll be around for deadline. I think I like Vote: DatSwan best. No real reason, I just think so many others are reading town.
This is such anti-town garbage and seriously looks a lot like scum!Robz leaning a little too hard into the faust quote from his signature to try to seem like lackluster town!Robz.
Hedge hedge.
Just to be clear about my vote, I think you are all scum. I'm not getting a town read on anyone at all. So, I'm pretty happy voting Galzria but if we need a final vote to push something through at the end of the day I'll be glad to add a hammer to my collection.
Oh good heavens Vote: pps
Now I found a stupid reason to leave the lynch wagon and place my vote on a scumpartner, but since my reason is so stupid noone will actually follow.
And then Clemens' self-vote gives Cuzz an excuse to push his case hard. That is a terrible reason.
Robz flying way under the radar all game is perhaps most suspicious to me. Teproc seemed townish D1 but has also been kind of in the "just active enough" zone that he definitely could be scum
I think pps should fullclaim. If he is town, then scum already has enough info to want to off him soon and I don't see how it helps us to keep being cagey about it.
"Perhaps" Robz is most suspicious, but no follow-up vote. The talk about PPS is super easy to fake if this was premeditated.
I cannot fathom what you possibly could think you’ve discovered although I can fathom why you might tease a fake result on someone with a somewhat substantial D1 wagon, and then withhold a claim until you’ve outed two PRs.
Vote: TWM
Spotted an opening to get a town PR lynched!
...
PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.
...
That said, what's the difference between a scum rolecop and a town cop behavior?
Oh sweet goodness this is some scummy whatnot. I think II may be onto something here. Vote: pps
Looks like a "crap they figured us out" overreaction.
I mean it all fits well. Admittedly I haven't tried very hard to see if Cuzz could be town, but there are no red flags that make my scumteam proposal impossible.
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well everyone has posted, and McMc and PPS are still alive. So at least we can rule out town!PPS got redirected onto scum after copping town!PPS. One of them is scum. I think I am going to vote PPS still.
We could even do that beforehand because there can be no Redirectors!
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iguana, don't throw this game away!
First off, I think scum wanted to get rid of the question mark PR rather than the possibly shot out and faking having more shots PR. Secondly, leaving me alive means I could just as easily get a town result which is not nearly as useful as a scum result but either way I'm already suspect for all the reasons you cite so I'm the best WIFOM to leave alive. Hell, regardless of what result I got I'm easily the best mislynch for the day which is exactly what you are about to do. Like I said, don't be an idiot, here. you are going directly to the conclusion scum hoped for by leaving me alive.
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faust, can you estimate your level of certainty that I am scum?
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Also, we know town was full up on PRs. There's no way scum is not powered up. I don't have any theories but scum has to have manipulated us into this corner with powers we have not yet detected, right? I mean, what are the scum powers to counteract the town roles? I'm a setup idiot so I can't rightly speculate but someone who can should be incorporating this aspect before making conclusions.
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Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps
I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.
Hey maybe! That’d be cool!
In the meantime, would you care to give like an impromptu, off the cuff detailed summary of your thoughts on faust this game?
Ghacob, wanna get in on that too while we’re at it?
pps and ghacob, can you follow up on this question? not as helpful now that you ignored it originally and maybe have had a chance to construct a response, but still would be good to hear you out
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sp teproc and pps had an interesting back and forth when pps claimed result and teproc asked very specifically if it was a reads thing or a pr thing. Not sure partners do that.
Well Ghacob is town, so.
how are you willing to entertain the possibility of scum!iguana and not the possibility of scum!ghacob?
Robz, I also wanna see your answer to this, unless i missed it somewhere
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Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps
I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.
Hey maybe! That’d be cool!
In the meantime, would you care to give like an impromptu, off the cuff detailed summary of your thoughts on faust this game?
Ghacob, wanna get in on that too while we’re at it?
pps and ghacob, can you follow up on this question? not as helpful now that you ignored it originally and maybe have had a chance to construct a response, but still would be good to hear you out
I've suspected faust from since the start of D2. My suspicion has not relented. I'd love to have lynched him already but yesterday it was either me or someone else and it wasn't going to be faust. faust knew this and helped us get Datswan mislynched for the setup I'm in today. I did not bother targeting faust because I was, let's say, 95% certain of the result and even if I had come out with a result on him today I suspected I'd be in a similar situation. I had hoped to uncover at least one more scum partner because I am fairly miffed as to who the others are and I did so. However, getting me killed today ends the game so I hope someone can talk sense into iguana.
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Yeah IDK guys it's not helpful when literally every person I consider as a scum read is just like "No iguana, dont ruin the game for us all you idiot."
That's less fun than thinking about Robz and McMc angrily typing at each other on their smartphones or whatever.
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Classic "leave me alive one more day and ill be dead" when he does't turn up dead and we are at 6/3 he pulls the obviously scum left me alive because they want us to mislynch me then we will be at 4/3.
j
McMc, look you are a prophet.
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I missed datswan definitely could be scum. so I guess.
Scummy: Datswan, lalight, robz
case but pr ugh: PPS, space, twm
town reads: fausty, teproc, iguana(traitor?)
def town: cuzz
why am I skummy?
Sadly/stupidly because you voted for a confirmed townie/didn’t help my cases day one and haven’t claimed a pr. Also you are difficult for me to read and always have been, we need to play together more, I think I have your voice down alright but I don’t have a good enough read on your personality to get your level of empathic concern and neuroticism to really get your communication style.
This is pretty towny. Can anyone give an example of McMc pulling something like this as scum?
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Ugh, I still think pps and space are scum.
vote: datswan
To me, this was the single scummiest thing that McMcsalot did. He said intent to hammer, then waited a while, then came back and said "not happy about the lack of activity after my intent to hammer, humm maybe DatSwan is town." Then he hammered anyway. WTF?
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McMc's most recent self defense is actually really good. His description of why he thinks Robz is scum is totally rock solid. All in all I think McMc has looked pretty towny, with the exception of his one scummy D2 hammer. He was also on the LL mislynch, but if you look at his case, he does make it sound like he believes in the lynch and has a legit scumread, which is more than we can say about a lot of other people's votes for mislynches this game.
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I never suggested my vote on Galz was a good one just that it held the same utlility as any votes based on the iguana interaction.
So you do not think your vote on Galz is a good vote?
I think it is as good as any other. Why is this so hard to grok?
no not hard I guess, I got it. I just think that if you "don't think your vote on Galz is a good one" because it is "as good as any other" - I mean, it's not like you are forced to vote at this point.
Right, but voting is clearly the best way to get direct interaction. Voting in a direction no one is looking gets even more interaction. I could join the iguana morass but it bores me so I picked a different direction. Clearly it is working as intended. Might is get me mislynched? Maybe, but that is valuable in itself. It's D1 so, I'm not exactly invested in any big scheme nor should anyone be.
The bolded statement reads like someone who hasn't decided he's going to be a cop yet.
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Told y’all iguana math wasn’t a thing. I was suspicious and anxious to see the claim because I thought if he was scum there was some fake claim coming. Now I’m just confounded.
Vote: LaLight
This OTOH is a very scummy vote for Lalight. It comes totally out of nowhere.
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Also PPS 100% flipped from a strong townread on McMcsalot on D3 to copping on N3. WTF?
My strongest townread is TWM.
Same and mcmc is not far behind. TWM has been way more involved, though, and I personally have grilled him a few times and every time I felt like he was town playing a town game.
Would Not Lynch:
PPS
TWM
mcmc
Prefer not to lynch:
iguana
That leaves (in no particular order):
LaLight
faust
Robz
cuzz
Ghacob
If my reads are good then all 3 scum are in my 5 person lynch pool. That my town reads want a LL lynch is notable.
He posts this list of 5 people in no particular order that he wants to lynch AFTER voting for Lalight.
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Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.
Vote: mcmc
Yeah this is literally his next reads based post after his last post. He goes from McMcsalot being his strongest townread alongside TWM to "I couldn't tell which of Robz/McMc were scum so I flipped a coin." And the only thing that changed in between was the LL flip and nightphase starting.
Which I guess is something. But still.
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mvguana over here putting in the hard work and scum thinking they had this in the bag might actually get us the win this game. I'm still on the pps, robz, faust train but I do want to do some more dedicated rereading because I will most likely be killed after a pps lynch though there is a world where iguana gets killed because of his hard work and almost unanimous townread. Actually is there anyone in this game that finds iguana scummy?
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You are convincing me on mcmc, iguana. Particularly the Pps not acting like cop early on thing.
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How about the PPS not acting like a town ever thing?
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That is not as persuasive.
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That is not as persuasive.
Why have you ever even town read him? You also never answered why you don't see that scum didn't block him as strong mitigating evidence that he shouldn't have been able to claim and go on to get another result.
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I wanted to make sure I was not a favorable scum target N1. That's pretty good cop behavior if you ask me. You are correct that I was townreading mcmc until the LL thing happened. The only other person I thought about investigating was Ghacob. I still think he could be scum but I am having a hard time seeing it and like I said, I didn't want a town result if I could avoid it.
I know iguana wants me dead but Imma die tonight anyway if you all will just lynch mcmc. There's some crazy world I suppose where I'm left alive for an even night to WIFOM out that mcmc and I are partners so they can kill iguana who is clearly town.
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Its LyLo, guy-who-calls-people-an-idiot.
If we mislynch we lose. There is no lynch me tomorrow.
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I both want and don't want PPS to die.
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Faust, what do you think of Robz? Be clear and thorough if possible thanks
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That is not as persuasive.
Why have you ever even town read him? You also never answered why you don't see that scum didn't block him as strong mitigating evidence that he shouldn't have been able to claim and go on to get another result.
That IS evidence, I just haven't gotten to that point in my re-read yet so I wanted to be absolutely clear on the timing of his claim and what exactly he said. So that's why I wasn't responding to that yet.
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Its LyLo, guy-who-calls-people-an-idiot.
If we mislynch we lose. There is no lynch me tomorrow.
What part of lynching mcmc means we play again tomorrow are you not following? My whole point was scum should kill me tonight but then I thought maybe they won't since they know I can't shoot tonight and getting rid of somelike yourself would be the smarter play which sets me up for a mislynch tomorrow because "why would scum let a known cop live".
Or kill me and we'll end the game and see who the scum team is with mod confirmed certainty as they gloat over our demise.
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Faust, what do you think of Robz? Be clear and thorough if possible thanks
I think he's scum. A big part of that is PoE, but there's also the fact that he's genuinely scummy.
The main thing there is his activity level. He lurked along D1-D3, and now (when it matters most to scum and he has to prevent his lynch), he's suddenly active and participating. If you compare to town!Robz in Gilmore Girls, his lurky attitude didn't really change in later days and if anything I would expect town!Robz to be more disspirited here.
Looking at voting history, you can see that Robz spends a good deal of time voting for PPS D1, only to pivot onto town right at the end. That's a simple bussing strategy. He's pushing DatSwan early on D2, which in turn helped scum set up the LaLight mislynch the day after. D3, instead of making the PPS lynch happen, or join in on LaLight (which would be seen as too scummy), he spends his time voting for his other scumpartner, Cuzz, for some distancing, but doesn't even try to convince anyone.
Caveat: This is without rereading.
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Also, he opened this Day pushing for a lynch of me and mcmc, who is likely town, so it really looks like he's trying to lock down the game.
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What happened to Ghacob? They were reading this. I called them out. They made one catching up post, then nothing.
Ghacob?
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Faust, what do you think of Robz? Be clear and thorough if possible thanks
I think he's scum. A big part of that is PoE, but there's also the fact that he's genuinely scummy.
The main thing there is his activity level. He lurked along D1-D3, and now (when it matters most to scum and he has to prevent his lynch), he's suddenly active and participating. If you compare to town!Robz in Gilmore Girls, his lurky attitude didn't really change in later days and if anything I would expect town!Robz to be more disspirited here.
Looking at voting history, you can see that Robz spends a good deal of time voting for PPS D1, only to pivot onto town right at the end. That's a simple bussing strategy. He's pushing DatSwan early on D2, which in turn helped scum set up the LaLight mislynch the day after. D3, instead of making the PPS lynch happen, or join in on LaLight (which would be seen as too scummy), he spends his time voting for his other scumpartner, Cuzz, for some distancing, but doesn't even try to convince anyone.
Caveat: This is without rereading.
That’s a nice neat narrative—the kind of narrative scum!Robz works hard to avoid.
The reason I was lurks and dispirited earlier rather than now is that when there’s a huge number of players and possible suspects, I struggle. Now there’s just a few people left and it’s easier to figure things out. I don’t accept that town is going to lose this at all.
Still half way thru my re read fyi.
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All I know is that regardless of the outcome, anyone's alignment, which side wins, or anything anyone does, it's all gonna be Robz's fault.
And definitely not my fault :D ;) 8)
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I need more people to do more things before deadline. I feel like scum is just gonna wait until I vote and see if I get it right, so they know whether they have to do a quick bus for towncred or whether they just win.
So I absolutely will not be the first to cast a vote or even share more reads. I've seen tony and scummy things from everyone. So, you know, bravo scum and boo town. Butnky reads are definitely not settled. Maybe you should try to convince me.
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iguana, is there any thing I can do? I mean, I have a result and I'm voting it. Obviously mcmc can't not vote me. I can reread ad nauseum but if we kill mcmc today the reads with another night flip will be way better.
This leaves you, robz, cuzz, faust, ghacob, two of which are scum. I see why you are pushing blame for success or failure onto Robz if you, like me, think he is probtown. The thing is, i order for us to lynch mcmc we are probably going to need 100% town consensus which includes you. To kill me we just need 1 town vote.
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Still making my way through my re read, but we should absolutely lynch Faust, who is scum, and save this question for another day. Faust is obv scum. He is “look I know I’m getting lynched, whether I still win this game depends on other stuff” scum.
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That’s a nice neat narrative—the kind of narrative scum!Robz works hard to avoid.
Yeah right of course you can't be scum because you always play amazing as scum...
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faust, can you estimate your level of certainty that I am scum?
faust, still waiting on this, thanks
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iguana, is there any thing I can do? I mean, I have a result and I'm voting it. Obviously mcmc can't not vote me. I can reread ad nauseum but if we kill mcmc today the reads with another night flip will be way better.
This leaves you, robz, cuzz, faust, ghacob, two of which are scum. I see why you are pushing blame for success or failure onto Robz if you, like me, think he is probtown. The thing is, i order for us to lynch mcmc we are probably going to need 100% town consensus which includes you. To kill me we just need 1 town vote.
Now that you "know" McMc is scum, it should be easy to prove how scummy he's been. Can you do that?
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iguana, is there any thing I can do? I mean, I have a result and I'm voting it. Obviously mcmc can't not vote me. I can reread ad nauseum but if we kill mcmc today the reads with another night flip will be way better.
This leaves you, robz, cuzz, faust, ghacob, two of which are scum. I see why you are pushing blame for success or failure onto Robz if you, like me, think he is probtown. The thing is, i order for us to lynch mcmc we are probably going to need 100% town consensus which includes you. To kill me we just need 1 town vote.
Now that you "know" McMc is scum, it should be easy to prove how scummy he's been. Can you do that?
In my opinion I already did, conclusively. Making a case when I have result seems overly redundant. If the assumption is I am scum faking a result does it not seem smarter to have made a case and claimed something else? I will say that the LL flip put me onto him but of course the pool of possibilities had shrunk drastically by that point. But to answer the question I certainly can do that. The question is whether or not it is productive to do so in light of having a mod confirmed result on him?
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faust, can you estimate your level of certainty that I am scum?
faust, still waiting on this, thanks
90-93%
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faust, can you estimate your level of certainty that I am scum?
faust, still waiting on this, thanks
90-93%
Hey, thanks. That's also about what I thought. It's also pretty damn high for someone whose alignment you are purporting not to know. Now let's look at faust's recent writeup of his re-read of me:
But, since you asked nicely, let's take a look at Cuzz. Picking Cuzz because that's really the weakest read here.
*snip*
I mean it all fits well. Admittedly I haven't tried very hard to see if Cuzz could be town, but there are no red flags that make my scumteam proposal impossible.
People who are not faust look at this and tell me whether this looks like it comes from someone who doesn't *know* my alignment, but is then is somehow also "90-93%" certain that I am scum, or whether instead it comes from someone who chose me as townie they were going to pretend to scumread.
To me, this looks simultaneously way too lazy and way too confident to constitute genuine scumhunting.
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Still making my way through my re read, but we should absolutely lynch Faust, who is scum, and save this question for another day. Faust is obv scum. He is “look I know I’m getting lynched, whether I still win this game depends on other stuff” scum.
I agree with all of this.
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sp teproc and pps had an interesting back and forth when pps claimed result and teproc asked very specifically if it was a reads thing or a pr thing. Not sure partners do that.
Well Ghacob is town, so.
how are you willing to entertain the possibility of scum!iguana and not the possibility of scum!ghacob?
Robz, I also wanna see your answer to this, unless i missed it somewhere
also bumping this
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Cuzz, who do you think faust is partners with?
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ghacob hiding out for most of the day today is starting to worry me, as though they're confident enough that we're headed down the wrong path that they can stay back and wait for us to screw ourselves. this makes me slightly terrified that I might be wrong about faust, as he seems to be the closest thing to a consensus that we have right now
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Who do you think faust is partners with?
You and either cuzz or ghacob. I mean maybe iguana and Robz but that seems unrealistic. But definitely you.
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
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Cuzz, who do you think faust is partners with?
pps would be my top guess. i had thought pps and Robz was most likely, but now am not sure based on the way Robz is pushing for us to lynch faust. ghacob is also seeming scummier and scummier, so i'd say faust/pps/ghacob > faust/pps/Robz > faust/ghacob/mcmc >>> faust/pps/mcmc
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
if you are town can you seriously cut this shit out? how the fuck is this remotely pro-town?
either faust is scum or he's given up and we lose anyway. in either case I'm about ready to vote
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iguana, is there any thing I can do? I mean, I have a result and I'm voting it. Obviously mcmc can't not vote me. I can reread ad nauseum but if we kill mcmc today the reads with another night flip will be way better.
This leaves you, robz, cuzz, faust, ghacob, two of which are scum. I see why you are pushing blame for success or failure onto Robz if you, like me, think he is probtown. The thing is, i order for us to lynch mcmc we are probably going to need 100% town consensus which includes you. To kill me we just need 1 town vote.
Now that you "know" McMc is scum, it should be easy to prove how scummy he's been. Can you do that?
In my opinion I already did, conclusively. Making a case when I have result seems overly redundant. If the assumption is I am scum faking a result does it not seem smarter to have made a case and claimed something else? I will say that the LL flip put me onto him but of course the pool of possibilities had shrunk drastically by that point. But to answer the question I certainly can do that. The question is whether or not it is productive to do so in light of having a mod confirmed result on him?
I think you are scummier than him so yeah it would be productive to convince me he is scummier than you.
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
if you are town can you seriously cut this shit out? how the fuck is this remotely pro-town?
either faust is scum or he's given up and we lose anyway. in either case I'm about ready to vote
For Faust? Seriously? What about PPS vs. McMc?
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
Yeah, the joke is that some guy on fds a while ago said that King's Court is far more skippable than most people think, then when people pushed him on it he clarified that he thought people should buy King's Court 90-93% of the time.
There's also the old fds 'explaining the joke makes it funnier' adage.
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
if you are town can you seriously cut this shit out? how the fuck is this remotely pro-town?
either faust is scum or he's given up and we lose anyway. in either case I'm about ready to vote
For Faust? Seriously? What about PPS vs. McMc?
pps scummier than mcmc. but one of pps/mcmc is scum, and 2 of Robz, you, ghacob, and faust are scum. this is unless your faust/mcmc/pps scumteam is really true, but I'm just really not seeing that kind of wild gambit from a pps/mcmc team.
I really do not think you are scum, so that's one of pps/mcmc then 2 of Robz, ghacob, and faust, and I'm inclined to go for 2/3 over 1/2, and that's even before we include actual reads on these people.
what do you want to do, though?
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
Yeah, the joke is that some guy on fds a while ago said that King's Court is far more skippable than most people think, then when people pushed him on it he clarified that he thought people should buy King's Court 90-93% of the time.
There's also the old fds 'explaining the joke makes it funnier' adage.
cool, great stuff
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Can someone please start explaining the joke to Cuzz? Etiquette prevents me from doing so.
if you are town can you seriously cut this shit out? how the fuck is this remotely pro-town?
either faust is scum or he's given up and we lose anyway. in either case I'm about ready to vote
For Faust? Seriously? What about PPS vs. McMc?
pps scummier than mcmc. but one of pps/mcmc is scum, and 2 of Robz, you, ghacob, and faust are scum. this is unless your faust/mcmc/pps scumteam is really true, but I'm just really not seeing that kind of wild gambit from a pps/mcmc team.
I really do not think you are scum, so that's one of pps/mcmc then 2 of Robz, ghacob, and faust, and I'm inclined to go for 2/3 over 1/2, and that's even before we include actual reads on these people.
what do you want to do, though?
Nah, go ahead and vote Faust. It's a little gambly, but the information payoff is OK.
I think you are town, but if Faust is town then the scum in PPS/McMc would have to make an awkward switch to win.
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Vote: Cuzz
Ba-dum.
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Well that is a vote on a town for sure.
So either Faust lost us the game, or he's scum.
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Honestly I don't mind either way.
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Well I have to shift the perspective. If Cuzz is town then I get lynched and we lose. If Cuzz is not lynched now then everyone knows one of us is scum and can reevaluate the game based on that info.
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I feel it. I really like this actually.
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Also this may be my last post of today. I may be able to check in tomorrow before my flight leaves, but no promises. I may be able to check in later, but it won't be a priority. I have made my decision for today and this is what I think gives town the best shot at winning.
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Obviously if I live through to tomorrow I will do my best to contribute as much as I can.
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Thanks for being either a pro-town scum or a pros-cum town Faust. It was fantastic; we loved it.
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Well I have to shift the perspective. If Cuzz is town then I get lynched and we lose. If Cuzz is not lynched now then everyone knows one of us is scum and can reevaluate the game based on that info.
“I fear Cuzz will risk us losing by voting for me so I’m gonna risk us losing by voting him instead”
This is anti town trash and none of it matters because you are scum so fuck it because if you are town you just made us lose anyway vote: faust
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If you are town, think long and hard before voting either of them.
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Obviously if I live through to tomorrow I will do my best to contribute as much as I can.
There is no living to tomorrow you are either scum who is getting lynched or the game is over and we lost and the fact that you don’t see this makes me more and more sure that you are scum.
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If this is town v. scum, then we can pseudo-IC the town and still have the McMc vs. PPS thing tomorrow.
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I’m signing off and going for a run; gg scum if that’s game but I don’t think it is.
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Just when I thought posting a scum result would limit us to a 2 person lynch pool...
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Vote count 4.2
mcmcsalot (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): mcmcsalot
Cuzz (1): faust
faust (1): Cuzz
not voting (3): Robz888, Ghacob, iguanaiguana
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 ends monday, march 19th at 13:00 forum time.
mod notes
- deadline extunsion
- robz and mcmc are VLA this week, faust is VLA for the next while
- proper pronounage continues to be an important thing. callout @ 1508 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg750302#msg750302), 9 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg750303#msg750303), 1545 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg750381#msg750381)
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well this is very interesting. so we know there is town between Faust/cuzz, I mean I thought one was scum before but this makes it nicer. This whole interaction leads me to believe pps/rob/faust is scum. Like why in the world does scum!cuzz do this instead of pushing for my Lynch, as he pointed out, Faust cast the vote. I think actually the one possibility here is robz is actually garbage town and since he voiced a scum read on buzz, Faust is trying to bait him into lynching town!cuzz and the team is pps/faust/ghacob. but I think that is very unlikely
drunk ama and I will try to commit to some more person to person rereads tomorrow
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Okay then, I think not all hope is lost.
I will take off now. I'll check in before the deadline to move my vote to PPS if needed.
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well this is very interesting. so we know there is town between Faust/cuzz, I mean I thought one was scum before but this makes it nicer. This whole interaction leads me to believe pps/rob/faust is scum. Like why in the world does scum!cuzz do this instead of pushing for my Lynch, as he pointed out, Faust cast the vote. I think actually the one possibility here is robz is actually garbage town and since he voiced a scum read on buzz, Faust is trying to bait him into lynching town!cuzz and the team is pps/faust/ghacob. but I think that is very unlikely
drunk ama and I will try to commit to some more person to person rereads tomorrow
Mcmc/Cuzz as scum doesn't make sense. Why not just vote PPS or not vote at all and wait for me to vote PPS. PPS/Cuzz is possible but I don't think likely and I need to address that before voting I think.
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Planning to prod Ghacob in 5 hours and ~10 minutes when he become eligible.
Pretty sure we need him to win the game, if not to lynch correctly today.
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"The Silence of the Robz" I think is a good sign, if indeed it means anything at all.
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Planning to prod Ghacob in 5 hours and ~10 minutes when he become eligible.
Pretty sure we need him to win the game, if not to lynch correctly today.
Ghacob uses “they” pronouns.
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: ( Sorry
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Okay, I read Cuzz a third time. He is not PPS' partner; he is town. If anyone needs proof to believe that, I can show it and I will happily do so.
Faust's reaction to Cuzz considering placing a vote on him was scummy. Faust, if you were town, I believe that you would not take the bait and vote Cuzz but rather you would have pushed hard for your consistent 'scumread' across D2 and D3, PPS, to be lynched. The fact that you acted so confident that PPS was scum throughout the game, and yet you did not vote for him at the end of any day, and that now you are not voting him at this crucial juncture, but are voting for someone else instead, is strong evidence that you have scum motivation, not town motivation.
Anyway, if by some miracle you are town, at least you know what you did that made us lose.
Vote: Faust
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Vote: faust
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Vote: PPS
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blahhh I hate this
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Can't tell if that was PPS going for the win or PPS trying to scare me off ever voting his partner again :(
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Unvote
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It clearly wasn't a quickhammer attempt, since... it was too dumb and clumsy to be a quickhammer attempt.
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Do you think it's even possible that was done by town?
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Request Prod on Ghacob
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
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The team is Cuzz/Robz/PPS
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Okay, I read Cuzz a third time. He is not PPS' partner; he is town. If anyone needs proof to believe that, I can show it and I will happily do so.
Faust's reaction to Cuzz considering placing a vote on him was scummy. Faust, if you were town, I believe that you would not take the bait and vote Cuzz but rather you would have pushed hard for your consistent 'scumread' across D2 and D3, PPS, to be lynched. The fact that you acted so confident that PPS was scum throughout the game, and yet you did not vote for him at the end of any day, and that now you are not voting him at this crucial juncture, but are voting for someone else instead, is strong evidence that you have scum motivation, not town motivation.
Anyway, if by some miracle you are town, at least you know what you did that made us lose.
Vote: Faust
What the hell? The onyl reason I did not vote PPS is that I figured if PPS is lynched I'm lynched tomorrow. It's a purely strategic mover, I am quite convinced that PPS is scum.
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
Not lurking, re-reading the thread. I just started Day 3.
Yes, I do think town could have done that. I think both scum! and town! PPS is eagerly to lynch anyone but himself, and recognizes that faust is a more likely lynch than mcmc at this point.
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Faust is scum; also, iguana is flailing and panicking in the most towniest of ways.
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Vote: PPS
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oh cool, so pps and faust are both scum then
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Now that you're all here, I'll try again to prove that someone is scum.
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I was pretty nervous when I saw Robz viewing the thread shortly after my vote for quite a long time but not posting anything. Then he appeared and actually decided to say something right after I unvoted. I think that plus the PPS naked vote points toward Robz/Cuzz/PPS as the scum team. That doesn't align with my reads, but sometimes my reads suck.
Oh well.
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i'm not here for long. but that was not a townie move by pps.
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i'm not here for long. but that was not a townie move by pps.
It looks really really bad for you :(
I think you tricked me :(
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If you're scum Cuzz, you're good at it :)
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that was an "I was looking forward to quickhammering town today but I think my partner is going down so I'm gonna vote and run for some bus credit without explaining my behavior whatsoever" move
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If you're scum Cuzz, you're good at it :)
i am not, and i am not
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We can leave that decision for later.
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
Not lurking, re-reading the thread. I just started Day 3.
Yes, I do think town could have done that. I think both scum! and town! PPS is eagerly to lynch anyone but himself, and recognizes that faust is a more likely lynch than mcmc at this point.
Sorry Robz, drive-by-vote-and-leave is like a scum only tactic.
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
Not lurking, re-reading the thread. I just started Day 3.
Yes, I do think town could have done that. I think both scum! and town! PPS is eagerly to lynch anyone but himself, and recognizes that faust is a more likely lynch than mcmc at this point.
Sorry Robz, drive-by-vote-and-leave is like a scum only tactic.
exactly
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
Not lurking, re-reading the thread. I just started Day 3.
Yes, I do think town could have done that. I think both scum! and town! PPS is eagerly to lynch anyone but himself, and recognizes that faust is a more likely lynch than mcmc at this point.
Sorry Robz, drive-by-vote-and-leave is like a scum only tactic.
exactly
hahaha, so go ahead and vote your partner then.
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Let's get this over with I say.
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I saw you lurking and posting nothing earlier today Robz.
Not lurking, re-reading the thread. I just started Day 3.
Yes, I do think town could have done that. I think both scum! and town! PPS is eagerly to lynch anyone but himself, and recognizes that faust is a more likely lynch than mcmc at this point.
Sorry Robz, drive-by-vote-and-leave is like a scum only tactic.
exactly
hahaha, so go ahead and vote your partner then.
how on earth does pps voting for faust have anything to do with me? if faust was town, scum had half a day to arrange a triple quickhammer after I voted for him. then even if I acknowledge your perspective that I might be scum, then scum still had almost 2 hours to double hammer after you voted for him.
then pps votes, and there's a good 15 minutes before you switch. if that was a quickhammer attempt it was horrendously botched, because why wouldn't pps make sure one of his partners was around? answer: because it wasn't a quickhammer attempt at all, because faust is scum and pps was attempting to bus for townpoints.
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Iguana, as you yourself have conceded, and admitted, and voted in keeping with, faust is definitely scum, regardless of who is scum between mcmc and PPS. Let's just save this decision and vote for faust.
I think all is not lost if you go down this path, because PPS could be scum. If PPS is town, that unexplained vote for faust really killed us, because it does not look when you do that, sure. But I don't see why he would be so reckless as scum when we were pretty much moving toward a faust lynch.
Also, I am not scum Do you honestly think I am?
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I was pretty nervous when I saw Robz viewing the thread shortly after my vote for quite a long time but not posting anything. Then he appeared and actually decided to say something right after I unvoted.
Oh well.
I have two tabs open for this game. One is currently halfway through Day 3 as I re-read, the other is up-to-date, and I refresh from time to time to see what's new. You're conspiracy theorizing!
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Cuzz, you are voting for faust. But you are seeking iguana's approval to switch to PPS, clearly.
My prediction remains: mcmc, Cuzz, faust for scum.
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Iguana, as you yourself have conceded, and admitted, and voted in keeping with, faust is definitely scum, regardless of who is scum between mcmc and PPS. Let's just save this decision and vote for faust.
I think all is not lost if you go down this path, because PPS could be scum. If PPS is town, that unexplained vote for faust really killed us, because it does not look when you do that, sure. But I don't see why he would be so reckless as scum when we were pretty much moving toward a faust lynch.
Also, I am not scum Do you honestly think I am?
Maybe because he is the brashest scum player on fds? I mean, Lol, come on.
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Cuzz, you are voting for faust. But you are seeking iguana's approval to switch to PPS, clearly.
My prediction remains: mcmc, Cuzz, faust for scum.
hahaha hope ur wrong or lyin' : )
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Robz, can you tell the class one thing you learned this morning from your "re-read"?
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Okay, I read Cuzz a third time. He is not PPS' partner; he is town. If anyone needs proof to believe that, I can show it and I will happily do so.
Faust's reaction to Cuzz considering placing a vote on him was scummy. Faust, if you were town, I believe that you would not take the bait and vote Cuzz but rather you would have pushed hard for your consistent 'scumread' across D2 and D3, PPS, to be lynched. The fact that you acted so confident that PPS was scum throughout the game, and yet you did not vote for him at the end of any day, and that now you are not voting him at this crucial juncture, but are voting for someone else instead, is strong evidence that you have scum motivation, not town motivation.
Anyway, if by some miracle you are town, at least you know what you did that made us lose.
Vote: Faust
What the hell? The onyl reason I did not vote PPS is that I figured if PPS is lynched I'm lynched tomorrow. It's a purely strategic mover, I am quite convinced that PPS is scum.
Love you Faust! Switch to PPS with me! Be the change you want to see in the world!
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Robz, can you tell the class one thing you learned this morning from your "re-read"?
It’s. not. Finished.
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Okay, I read Cuzz a third time. He is not PPS' partner; he is town. If anyone needs proof to believe that, I can show it and I will happily do so.
Faust's reaction to Cuzz considering placing a vote on him was scummy. Faust, if you were town, I believe that you would not take the bait and vote Cuzz but rather you would have pushed hard for your consistent 'scumread' across D2 and D3, PPS, to be lynched. The fact that you acted so confident that PPS was scum throughout the game, and yet you did not vote for him at the end of any day, and that now you are not voting him at this crucial juncture, but are voting for someone else instead, is strong evidence that you have scum motivation, not town motivation.
Anyway, if by some miracle you are town, at least you know what you did that made us lose.
Vote: Faust
What the hell? The onyl reason I did not vote PPS is that I figured if PPS is lynched I'm lynched tomorrow. It's a purely strategic mover, I am quite convinced that PPS is scum.
Love you Faust! Switch to PPS with me! Be the change you want to see in the world!
Vote: PPS
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L-1
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Cuzz, you are voting for faust. But you are seeking iguana's approval to switch to PPS, clearly.
My prediction remains: mcmc, Cuzz, faust for scum.
I'm not seeking permission for a damn thing. faust is 100% scum because I was voting for him for 18 hours and the game isn't over. I'm feeling pretty confident that pps is his partner, but since pretty confident < 100% sure, I have no reason to switch to anyone.
if pps was town the game would also likely be over, but that depends on the assumption that iguana is town, which is like altogether less certain than me being town, and there has also been less time elapsed for a quickhammer on pps, so in theory that could still be forthcoming if he were town though I think faust is on a plane or something so probably couldn't participate yet.
ppe: ok wrong about faust being on a plane, and maybe it's all happening now anyway
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I'm town
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If I were scum, my path to winning was much shorter and easier than all this nonsense.
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So, you know faust is scum, you voted him with intent for him to die. Then, I think nobody is going to lynch the confirmed scum and I think hey, faust is definitely scum too let's join that angle. That stood forever going nowhere confirming him scum and now you want to switch to me and leverage faust, who you will swear is scum, to do it?
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so if pps were town this would be game over as soon as scum saw this and hammered, unless the scum team were faust/mcmc/iguana
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Which means unless Ghacob is scum, PPS is scum. Robz has had chances to vote.
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So, you know faust is scum, you voted him with intent for him to die. Then, I think nobody is going to lynch the confirmed scum and I think hey, faust is definitely scum too let's join that angle. That stood forever going nowhere confirming him scum and now you want to switch to me and leverage faust, who you will swear is scum, to do it?
Uh sure
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Which means unless Ghacob is scum, PPS is scum. Robz has had chances to vote.
exactly. which they certainly could be, so it doesn't hurt to wait
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so if pps were town this would be game over as soon as scum saw this and hammered, unless the scum team were faust/mcmc/iguana
For Faust/McMc/ Iguana I seriously challenge you to explain my voting Faust first.
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so if pps were town this would be game over as soon as scum saw this and hammered, unless the scum team were faust/mcmc/iguana
For Faust/McMc/ Iguana I seriously challenge you to explain my voting Faust first.
man i am trying to consider all freaking possibilities. i don't think it's particularly likely. i have townread you all damn game, so i don't know where the defensiveness is coming from. what with me being town and all i do not have the luxury of knowing anyone's alignment with absolute certitude but my own, so i am just trying to do some poe.
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Scum not quick hammering town is perfect WIFOM if they end up bussing today.
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Scum not quick hammering town is perfect WIFOM if they end up bussing today.
huh?
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That guy didn't die yesterday so he must be scum is the narrative for a an easy mislynch tomorrow with a sacrificial bus today.
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That guy didn't die yesterday so he must be scum is the narrative for a an easy mislynch tomorrow with a sacrificial bus today.
Can you rephrase this while being like way more specific about what you are actually trying to imply is happening because I do not follow.
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Not hammering.
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pps, since presumably you'd like us to think the game will be over if you get lynched, do you have any thoughts? do you care to defend yourself? are you concerned about ghacob potentially being scum who will hammer as soon as they come back? wanna do something remotely pro-town and share with us your reads, and try to convince us to lynch someone else, like faust or mcmc or their partner? especially mcmc, who is supposed to be actual honest-to-goodness mod-confirmed scum from your perspective?
or you could clarify what you meant in that post above, in which you seem to be implying that scum would not quickhammer you for "wifom" reasons, even though it's lylo and not hammering town!you would be obscenely unsportsmanlike at this point.
any of the above could be good, really
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Not hammering.
why not?
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Kinda looks like you two are scum hoping Ghacob never comes back or that his reads are wrong when he does come back.
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Their :(
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Kinda looks like you two are scum hoping Ghacob never comes back or that their reads are wrong when they come back.
If it helps my IRL name is Jacob so that throws me off.
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Kinda looks like you two are scum hoping Ghacob never comes back or that his reads are wrong when he does come back.
no, i am town who is not in a rush to end the day/game. the longer the day goes the more information we have for tomorrow if we do end up lynching scum, which is why I want people to keep talking
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Kinda looks like you two are scum hoping Ghacob never comes back or that their reads are wrong when they come back.
If it helps my IRL name is Jacob so that throws me off.
it is kinda weird to think about everyone having an actual name.
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Hey y'all! a lot of unexpected V/LA goings on on my end (or more accurately, I expected the V, but not the LA)
Intention to hammer, but unlike the rest of y'all who claimed they're getting killed in the night, I'm actually going to get killed in the night, so I want to get all the words out I can before doing so
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Partial feeling of giving up starting mid this game day, mostly because it only more recently hit me how much losing TWM hurt us, and how easily I could have prevented that
Way back last week, I got a friend to does mafia on mafiascum (and recognized at least of few of y'all?) to give me a hand with reads and all that. His thoughts on people that are still alive (that I remember!) are: there is scum among (faust, pps), cuzz has said scummy things, from yesterday, he called pps as scum fakeclaiming odd night cop, which I'm told is a sign "guaranteed scum", which is how I 'called' it here:
schadd I swear if you actually put an actual odd night cop into this setup...
julie i swear it's so hard to bear it
thanks schadd for the extra WIFOM from that by the way
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Oh hey nice PPS is confirmed scum.
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We got there.
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Oh hey nice PPS is confirmed scum.
yep. and ghacob is coming in sounding pretty townie also, so i don't think they're bussing
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pps/faust/Robz for the scumteam. I actually think we might have this after an awful start
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Oh man Cuzz.
I really thought you were town.
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Oh man Cuzz.
I really thought you were town.
and you had great instincts man
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Kill me tonight, so I don't have to decide :)
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faust, while not giving the commanding town presence that I'd *like*, did correctly tell me who I should have protected last night... I thought?
there was definitely a post someone made after my attempt at a massclaim that was like "great you've done nothing but IC TWM" which...should be looked into I guess
Everyone's frickin' scummy darnit.
Nay, robz your lack of content is admirable. Not voting in this case does very little for you, as if you're town preventing a mislynch, you should be doing more than proclaiming that you're not contributing to it. That's also a wonderful thought, if that's the case, congrats to ii mcmc and faust for your incredible scum game
Oh that's another thought, that my townread of ii is also from aforementioned friend, who chuckled and said "yeah they're town" upon reading your reveal/claim/whatever, so *don't let him down!*
I dunno y'all, I guess we've either done it or we haven't (oh no hedging, clearly not coming from fear and uncertainty)
Any last thoughts before I hit the hammer?
PPS: 6 good luck y'all
PPS: 1
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You can tell I've got this all on the brain if I'm changing PPE to PPS
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don't hammer yet. there's no reason not to wait for everyone to post final thoughts since we have like 2 irl days before deadline.
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pps and faust are confirmed scum.
for their partner Robz>>Ghacob>>>iguana>>>mcmc
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I am exhausted and want the day to be over butnrecognize that is selfish of me.
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I am exhausted and want the day to be over butnrecognize that is selfish of me.
scum wants it to be over too! at least one of them is already bussing. they have already conceded a scum lynch today. it is then strictly better for them to have the day end sooner rather than later because then we miss out on however much reads and discussion we can force everyone to share before we hammer pps.
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I dunno dude we talked a lot.
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Ghacob could post why they think Cuzz or Faust is scummy. That might help.
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I am exhausted and want the day to be over butnrecognize that is selfish of me.
Nah, that's reasonable. I feel like we got our words out already and we're about to either lose or y'all'll have a bunch of time to talk what to do next, tomorrow. Prolonging the day just feels like giving scum and extra 48 hours to think and plan for the future.
I am exhausted and want the day to be over butnrecognize that is selfish of me.
scum wants it to be over too! at least one of them is already bussing. they have already conceded a scum lynch today. it is then strictly better for them to have the day end sooner rather than later because then we miss out on however much reads and discussion we can force everyone to share before we hammer pps.
If you want it to be over so bad, you hammer pps! ;D
Ghacob could post why they think Cuzz or Faust is scummy. That might help.
frick, both?? I'm honestly looking forward to dying tonight so I don't have to think about it anymore
But I agree with your analysis that what Cuzz is doing now is strategically identical to Robbz's "I won't vote"
It's very much worth rereading faust's D2. How does he as a VT justify voting for a claimed PR so early? Does the whole series of interactions between faust and PPS look like scum/scum interactions?
PPE: many, which I then added to the post responding to
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In lighter news, names are bad. If I could change my forum username (I can't, right?) I would love to
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
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I'm thinking of pushing Robz tomorrow, since I think he's scum and don't know for sure on Cuzz/Faust.
Ghacob, what do you think? Good plan?
-
In lighter news, names are bad. If I could change my forum username (I can't, right?) I would love to
Theorel changed shecantsayno SCSN for him.
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
why are you so sure pps is town?
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I'm thinking of pushing Robz tomorrow, since I think he's scum and don't know for sure on Cuzz/Faust.
Ghacob, what do you think? Good plan?
Sounds as good as any. Remember to get all your thoughts out pre-hammer for a final night of... mcmc/Cuzz/Faust? hm...
It may be in y'alls best interest to let a bit more discussion happen so you can get a better idea of what's going on before the final night. Think about it tonight. I encourage town to spend the night getting a better grip on what's going on and how you're pushing what, because scum will most certainly be doing so.
In lighter news, names are bad. If I could change my forum username (I can't, right?) I would love to
Theorel changed shecantsayno SCSN for him.
Right, that did happen. Thanks, I'll work on it.
PPE: 1
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
why are you so sure pps is town?
so like, for example discussion-wise, it might be cool if Robz answered this before someone ended the day
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
why are you so sure pps is town?
so like, for example discussion-wise, it might be cool if Robz answered this before someone ended the day
I actually think this makes a great stopping point for the day. Robz will convince nobody, but sure will get the last laugh if town dies with vote: PPS
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
why are you so sure pps is town?
so like, for example discussion-wise, it might be cool if Robz answered this before someone ended the day
I actually think this makes a great stopping point for the day. Robz will convince nobody, but sure will get the last laugh if town dies with vote: PPS
it has nothing to do with Robz convincing me or anyone. it's not a question about pps or faust. it's a question about Robz and trying to understand his perspective or his alleged perspective. but it's moot now i guess.
also i'm confused about the town dying part because pps is already confirmed scum
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lynch faust tomorrow
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the confirmation bit i didn't quite understand
You can always ask him tomorrow, assuming he doesn't rush to post a response right now, which I decided is a more helpful answer than one we slowly wait for before ending the day
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the confirmation bit i didn't quite understand
You can always ask him tomorrow, assuming he doesn't rush to post a response right now, which I decided is a more helpful answer than one we slowly wait for before ending the day
pps was confirmed scum as soon as you didn't quickhammer him, because everyone else had had a chance to do so already.
the only lingering possibility was that all 3 scum were already on him, which would imply an exact iguana/mcmc/faust scumteam, which seemed unlikely enough to discount
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I’m sure on pps vs mcmc, but Faust has to be scum. Was that the hammer? Oh well.
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I’m NOT sure, I meant to say.*
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the confirmation bit i didn't quite understand
You can always ask him tomorrow, assuming he doesn't rush to post a response right now, which I decided is a more helpful answer than one we slowly wait for before ending the day
pps was confirmed scum as soon as you didn't quickhammer him, because everyone else had had a chance to do so already.
the only lingering possibility was that all 3 scum were already on him, which would imply an exact iguana/mcmc/faust scumteam, which seemed unlikely enough to discount
Was that actually the shape of things? Because then yes you are right.
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my thoughts on the matter were that town would want to explain things right away, even rushing past a hammer to do so, while scum might want to wait until after a chance to confer with their partner to give a response to why they thought pps was town
not a big thing by any means, and wifom besides, I thought that gaining that little bit was as good a reason as any to end the day at this point
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I’m NOT sure, I meant to say.*
So like this is the kind of helpful reaction I was looking for. This from Robz makes absolutely no sense because there is no way to still be unsure on pps, as I outlined above, unless, again you are calling an exact scumteam of mcmc/faust/iguana.
Ppe: 2
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Fine, it’s PPS/Faust/Cuzz
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Oh hey, just realized, now that we are finally getting a scum flip, maybe we will get to listen to some age of adz :)
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https://youtu.be/DS0Fvn7oEMY?t=1m1s (https://youtu.be/DS0Fvn7oEMY?t=1m1s)
the sound of the engines and the smell of grain
we go riding on the abolition grain train
stephen a douglas was a great debater,
but abraham lincoln was the great emancipator
Vote count 4.3
pingpongsam (3): mcmcsalot, iguanaiguana, faust
faust (2): Cuzz, pingpongsam
not voting (3): Robz888, Ghacob
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 ends monday, march 19th at 13:00 forum time.
mod notes
- robz and mcmc are VLA this week, faust is VLA for the next while
- i go to school a few miles away from decatur! and thus from jacksonville as well
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If we all agree Faust is scum, let’s lynch Faust now rather than pps.
why are you so sure pps is town?
so like, for example discussion-wise, it might be cool if Robz answered this before someone ended the day
I actually think this makes a great stopping point for the day. Robz will convince nobody, but sure will get the last laugh if town dies with vote: PPS
Did this vote not count or did you not see it?
ye i missed it. would request people to put votes at the beginning of lines
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vote: PPS?
In other news I apparently broke a rule ( ??? ) by asking a third party for advice about this game? Which, I guess, I'd like a third opinion on
ye in general talking about the game with other people and especially having that affect the game isn't allowed. i'm not gonna penalize it - it is within the realm of stuff people are okay with considering the idea of hydra accounts - but in this case there is an assumption you're not going to do that. i guess the rules don't forbid communication with non-players
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Yeah, that's against normal etiquette. I checked the rule list and it doesn't explicitly say not to do it.
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thread locked
D4 final vote count
pingpongsam (4): mcmcsalot, iguanaiguana, faust, Ghacob
faust (2): Cuzz, pingpongsam
not voting (1): Robz888
with 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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https://youtu.be/n6TgEWrkU_M?t=1m41s (https://youtu.be/n6TgEWrkU_M?t=1m41s)
we are awakened with the axe
night of the living dead at last
they have begun to shake the dirt
wiping their shoulders from the earth
i know, i know the nation's past
i know, i know they must have passed
they tremble with the nervous thought
of having been at last forgot
i - l - l - i - n - o - i - s
ring the bell and call or write us
i - l - l - i - n - o - i - s
can you call the captain clitus?
pingpongsam has been lynched! he was the night zombies, a mafia 1-shot neapolitan
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https://youtu.be/NW02HUysX3w?t=10m18s (https://youtu.be/NW02HUysX3w?t=10m18s)
oh, but the world is a mess!
oh, but the world is a mess!
night 4 starts now and ends monday, march 19th at 13:00 forum time.
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https://youtu.be/59BRCOiQVKI?t=55s (https://youtu.be/59BRCOiQVKI?t=55s)
if there's anything to say
if there's anything to do
if there's any other way
i'll do anything for you.
Ghacob has died in the night! they were generosity, a town doctor.
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https://youtu.be/59BRCOiQVKI?t=42s (https://youtu.be/59BRCOiQVKI?t=42s)
morning comes in paradise,
morning comes in light
still i must obey,
still i must invite
Day 5 Starts!
Vote count 5.0
not voting (5): Robz888, faust, mcmcsalot, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 5 starts now and ends monday, march 26th at 13:30 forum time. thread unlaned.
mod notes
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Now we lynch faust while he isn't here to defend himself.
I think from my perspective the team pretty much has to be Cuzz and faust... so that's what I'm arguing!
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Oh scum killing ghacob, while the overwhelmingly safe move, is actually really nice for me and iguana
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I feel bad for you guys. Normally you would win with the quickhammer and the game would be over. I didn't even unvote quickly after PPS did his quickhammer attempt.
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Oh scum killing ghacob, while the overwhelmingly safe move, is actually really nice for me and iguana
Do you agree we should lynch faust, and then Cuzz?
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I'll out you all say whatever but I am voting Robz for sure.
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I'll out you all say whatever but I am voting Robz for sure.
Sad. Why?
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I mean....... I guess if you are town, it feels bad how you hedged really hard on PPS and pushed McMc as the scummier one. Plus the way that you were viewing the thread shortly before the PPS vote on Faust made it look like you were waiting for him to do a quickhammer and just had an unfortunate timing mishap.
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I think I can be treated as an IC at this point and I truly think iguana has put in far to much pro-town work to be scum, if he is scum MVP to him and I am happy to lose. So that leaves two scum in Robz/Faust/Cuzz which gives us really good odds.
Iguana we should come to a conclusion of which two are scum, who knows which one of us will be alive tomorrow and we might as well get on the same page now, since the pool of Robz/Faust/Cuzz is only going to decrease based on our lynches.
It takes three to lynch so two town vote plus scum is a hammer.
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So if you really are town.... You got framed really bad.
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I think I can be treated as an IC at this point and I truly think iguana has put in far to much pro-town work to be scum, if he is scum MVP to him and I am happy to lose. So that leaves two scum in Robz/Faust/Cuzz which gives us really good odds.
Iguana we should come to a conclusion of which two are scum, who knows which one of us will be alive tomorrow and we might as well get on the same page now, since the pool of Robz/Faust/Cuzz is only going to decrease based on our lynches.
It takes three to lynch so two town vote plus scum is a hammer.
Cuzz and Robz. Because they were trying to quickhammer when I voted Faust yesterday.
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More sure on Robz.
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I also think robz is scum iguana, for pretty much the exact reasons you gave but like I said I want us to figure out both scum today, so there is no rush to lynch robz now.
PPE: yea I am really torn between faust and cuzz.
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Here is a fun game.
Robz from your perspective PPS, Faust, Cuzz is the scum team so paint that narrative and show iguana and I we are wrong.
Cuzz show us how PPS, Robz, Faust are the scum team
and Faust is V/LA but iguana and I can do some work to look and how a PPS, Robz, Cuzz team looks.
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I can expltomorrow think Cuzz tomorrow. Has to do with their motivations for voting each other yesterday.
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I think I can be treated as an IC at this point and I truly think iguana has put in far to much pro-town work to be scum, if he is scum MVP to him and I am happy to lose. So that leaves two scum in Robz/Faust/Cuzz which gives us really good odds.
Iguana we should come to a conclusion of which two are scum, who knows which one of us will be alive tomorrow and we might as well get on the same page now, since the pool of Robz/Faust/Cuzz is only going to decrease based on our lynches.
It takes three to lynch so two town vote plus scum is a hammer.
Cuzz and Robz. Because they were trying to quickhammer when I voted Faust yesterday.
I was absolutely not trying to quickhammer faust. And no point did I attempt to quickhammer faust. I never even voted for faust, or anyone else, because I was being cautious about votes. I was online and viewing the thread for a long time because I was re-reading the entire thread.
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Here is a fun game.
Robz from your perspective PPS, Faust, Cuzz is the scum team so paint that narrative and show iguana and I we are wrong.
Cuzz show us how PPS, Robz, Faust are the scum team
and Faust is V/LA but iguana and I can do some work to look and how a PPS, Robz, Cuzz team looks.
Faust is scum for surviving this long (something only scum faust does), and for pushing a terrible Day 1 lynch on Sir Clemens. Also, knowing that PPS is scum, and now seems obvious that they played up their well known "we hate each other" meta and had a bunch of fake fights. It's obvious this is what happened.
Cuzz is scum by process of elimination, he's the classic scum who just didn't really get noticed all day, never had any significant wagons against him, people vaguely said he was suspicious but it wasn't pursued, etc.
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I mean....... I guess if you are town, it feels bad how you hedged really hard on PPS and pushed McMc as the scummier one.
I wanted to delay the vote on these two, since faust was the more obvious scum to me. I hedged because I legitimately thought mcmc seemed scummier but you were making a lot of good points about PPS.
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Vote: faust
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I mean....... I guess if you are town, it feels bad how you hedged really hard on PPS and pushed McMc as the scummier one.
I wanted to delay the vote on these two, since faust was the more obvious scum to me. I hedged because I legitimately thought mcmc seemed scummier but you were making a lot of good points about PPS.
Explain why you thought I was scummy, I don't believe you ever did that yesterday.
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I mean....... I guess if you are town, it feels bad how you hedged really hard on PPS and pushed McMc as the scummier one.
I wanted to delay the vote on these two, since faust was the more obvious scum to me. I hedged because I legitimately thought mcmc seemed scummier but you were making a lot of good points about PPS.
Explain why you thought I was scummy, I don't believe you ever did that yesterday.
Sort of just a bad feeling, you fading in the background for so long, you failing to nail any scum this game--you've played so well as town lately! Also you didn't take strong stances about me.
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So today is my anniversary but my wife has an hour more of work so I'll try to explain why I think Cuzz is scum right now:
Faust and Cuzz voted for each other yesterday. One had a town motivation, one had a scum motivation.
Let's assume scum!Faust
Scum!Faust's partners are Robz and PPS. He wants anyone else to get lynched on any day after today to win. He's getting heavily scumread and so is his partner PPS, so probably his priority is to muddy the waters and try to deflect attention from his partner. So when Cuzz starts suggesting that he thinks he might want to vote for Faust, why vote back? I have expressed a super strong town read on Cuzz and have defended him at every point through the game when people suggested he was scummy. scum!Faust knows by that point that I am more likely to vote him and that McMc isn't going to move his vote off of PPS because McMc knows he's found scum and isn't decided on Faust vs. Cuzz. The best explanation for why would vote for Cuzz is that his third partner is Cuzz and he wants to try to WIFOM and make us believe that Cuzz is town by setting up a false 1 v. 1. But that would mean that Robz would have to be town, which I just do not believe in a million years after how the end of the day yesterday went.
OTOH, town!Faust's motivation for voting Cuzz when he has been pushing PPS all game is a little obscure and weird - honestly I think Faust's better play would have been to ignore Cuzz and go for PPS; I wouldn't have voted him at all if he had done that I think. But I can think of why he might do it. That being said, I won't create the narrative myself. I want him to explain why he did that himself and really prove it to us - because like I said I'm not 100% convinced.
Okay here is the clincher.
scum!Cuzz's motivation for voting Faust is really clear. At the time, I had been expressing a strong townread on Cuzz. I think he was actually my strongest townread at several points throughout the game. So scum!Cuzz knows his partner PPS is going down if he doesn't do something. He could go ahead and bus PPS and hope to get towncred, but he can't control people's shifting reads and he has to gamble with the idea that I could change my mind on him and figure out the game across the next several days. However, he knows I had been strongly scumreading Faust. So he kind of seeks out my permission to vote for Faust and not PPS, suggesting that his scumread on Faust is just stronger and re-inserting a sort of doubt that maybe McMcsalot is the scummy one, not PPS. I think the way he is talking to me through that whole process and trying to fish for my opinions is really what exposes him as scum. He's trying to probe for how strong my town read on him is and trying to see if I will really go for it if he votes for Faust. Because for him, I think the certainty that I vote Faust and they can seal the game is much better than the long drawn out way where he busses PPS and has to try to get a mislynch through on the following days as the PoE gets better and better.
The town!Cuzz motivation is there too. I mean, he spelled out his reasoning for why he did everything he did really well. But, I think Cuzz is actually just really good at fabricating reasoning. He's a good scum player! I'm impressed! That's partly why I feel pretty bad. Really this guy deserves to win the game for masterfully manipulating me but his partners fumbled the quickhammer and it basically exposed everyone all at once.
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I sorta already said this, but I just really don't see why Scum!Faust with Robz/PPS partners suggests that the team is Cuzz/Robz/PPS as his top most likely team when he knows that I am strongly, strongly townreading Cuzz. He's basically suggesting something that is very unlikely to make any headway with me. The only reason to do it is if he really believes that it is true.
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So PPS was a one shot Neapolitan, thats a cop that returns Vanilla Townie or Not Vanilla Townie. This means it is very likely Scum PPS targets EFHW, receives "Not Vanilla Townie" and decides to claim his action but not the exact result and scum kills EFHW the next night since they know she is a PR.
Can one Mafia member use a power and Nightkill in the same night? no; nobody can use more than 1 night action at a time
Cuzz was jailkept night 1, if PPS can not have used the NK the same night as his neapolitan shot it % wise makes cuzz slightly less likely to be scum because he had a 50% chance of using the NK which he didn't.
Robz was jailkept night 2, and that is slightly less clearing then the night one jk pending mafia abilty to use actions.
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Then if you look at Cuzz and Robz assuming Cuzz/Robz/PPS is the team, you'll see that they consistently through the game have voted with the motivations of keeping that team alive.
Cuzz and Robz both vote for PPS, but only when there isn't really a wagon on him. Cuzz votes for him with what Faust calls a pretty weak reason D1, "trying to start a wagon," and it goes nowhere.
Robz has a reads list where he leaves both Cuzz and DatSwan off and then says "Did I miss anyone? Don't think so." Then in his next post he says "Oh, I missed DatSwan!" but acts like he never noticed that he also missed Cuzz. [Cue Robz telling me that honest-to-goodness-that's-what-really-happened]
Robz votes for Cuzz out of nowhere on the day when we mislynched Lalight, but then never puts much work into the case. He also stays off Lalight all day, staying on Cuzz and doing nothing. I think the scum motivation there is pretty clear. Stay off the inevitable Lalight mislynch, while keeping your vote on a partner who almost certainly is not getting lynched.
Cuzz and Robz both lurk heavily throughout the parts of the game where we keep creating PPS wagons and then talking ourselves out of actually lynching him, never providing much commentary on PPS during any of that time. Then on the final day they both appear again and get a lot more active; the scum motivation for being active yesterday I think was pretty clear: convince Iguana to lynch someone other than PPS.
Faust's whining about how the game probably isn't winnable anymore is actually towny, even from him.
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I agree that based on yesterday Robz and Cuzz both pushing Faust over anyone in the PPS vs MCMC scenario seems a whole lot like the scumpartners noticing the tide is turning against PPS and that the remaining townie Iguana has a scum read on Faust and maybe they can make that happen.
PPE: I am agreeing strongly
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SirClemens (7): faust, DatSwan, Cuzz, LaLight, iguanaiguana, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
Galzria (2): pingpongsam, SirClemens
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
LaLight (1): Teproc
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (0):
DatSwan (6): The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, Cuzz, LaLight, pingpongsam, mcmcsalot
LaLight (3): iguanaiguana, faust, DatSwan
Robz888 (1): SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): Ghacob
LaLight (5): The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, faust, iguanaiguana
pingpongsam (1): Ghacob
faust (1): LaLight
Cuzz (1): Robz888
not voting (1): Cuzz
pingpongsam (4): mcmcsalot, iguanaiguana, faust, Ghacob
faust (2): Cuzz, pingpongsam
not voting (1): Robz888
PPS: OFF/ON/ON/OFF
Robz: OFF/ON/OFF/NA
Cuzz: ON/ON/NA/OFF
Faust: ON/OFF/ON/ON
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If you really want to see why Cuzz and Robz are scummy, control-F their posts in the full thread and you can see all the little yellow lines that are super heavy at the very beginning and the very end of the thread and almost disappear through the middle where town was busy slaying each other.
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The one thing that irks me is that Day 2 all of Robz/Cuzz/PPS are on wagon, it's not out of the realm of possibility but I want to read that day end and see if that something they needed to do.
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Yeah I see that.
I hated that lynch! haha
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Then there's also the fact that if Faust was scum, my vote for him wouldn't have been a quickhammer opportunity for scum. So PPS still might have thought to switch his vote and scare me off his partner, but Robz wouldn't have been viewing the thread with the intention of voting when PPS got on.
So that would mean that, even if Robz is scum, he would have just been viewing the thread to re-read it.
But if you look at Robz' flurry of activity at the end of the day, it looks more like caught scum who is desperately trying to get my vote back on Faust so that he can win the game, not so much like town who was just casually rereading. Actually, town!Robz would have been upset that I voted early and maybe would have tried to talk me out of voting Faust before his reread was over.
So the only possibility left then if it is Faust/Robz/PPS is that it was actually scum!Robz who just happened to be re-reading the thread. Which I dunno, I don't really believe that.
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I'm here. That vote by Robz is bad and he should feel bad. Or he is scum, which is the most likely scenario. I want to get up to speed enough that I remember why I have the reads on people that I remember having... hopefully that can happen at least before day end.
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Also Also, I don't think scum!Robz would have lurked through the game as much if he were partners with Faust. I think scum!Robz would have been more excited about that. The way that scum!Robz lurked points towards partners that he didn't know as well.
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Also I am a tad concerned(not that it matters)
Galz - Even Night Watcher
Space(not efhw as I said earlier) - 1 shot cop
TWM - Jailkeeped
Ghacob - Doctor
PPS - "vanilla/not" not even a rolecop...
What terrifying other pr's does scum have to even out this super strong town and bummer we didn't block and kills with 3 nights of jailkeeper, and 3 effective nights of doctor. Strongman Scum is almost a definite thing here. I actually wouldn't be surprised by a strongman and a ninja for scum.
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The one thing that irks me is that Day 2 all of Robz/Cuzz/PPS are on wagon, it's not out of the realm of possibility but I want to read that day end and see if that something they needed to do.
So on this note, isn't it kinda smart to all stack up on wagon? It's sorta high risk, because being on wagon on a mislynch makes you more likely to be lynched the next day, but the endgame benefit is pretty clear - it makes them all look like they are not the team. And on this particular day, I think they really could have predicted that LaLight would be going down next with the way I was already pushing him and dead-set on him being scum.
Ok I'm done for the day.
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The one thing that irks me is that Day 2 all of Robz/Cuzz/PPS are on wagon, it's not out of the realm of possibility but I want to read that day end and see if that something they needed to do.
So on this note, isn't it kinda smart to all stack up on wagon? It's sorta high risk, because being on wagon on a mislynch makes you more likely to be lynched the next day, but the endgame benefit is pretty clear - it makes them all look like they are not the team. And on this particular day, I think they really could have predicted that LaLight would be going down next with the way I was already pushing him and dead-set on him being scum.
Ok I'm done for the day.
Yep, I was also pretty huge in pushing for lalights lynch, it was an easy wagon for scum to join
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Robz has a reads list where he leaves both Cuzz and DatSwan off and then says "Did I miss anyone? Don't think so." Then in his next post he says "Oh, I missed DatSwan!" but acts like he never noticed that he also missed Cuzz. [Cue Robz telling me that honest-to-goodness-that's-what-really-happened]
It was honest to goodness that's what really happened. I actually did notice much later that I had completely forgotten about Cuzz when I made this list, which is when I first started getting suspicious of Cuzz... he was flying that far under the radar.
I would have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever left my partner off that list, swear to god, 100%. This detail should completely acquit me, really.
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The one thing that irks me is that Day 2 all of Robz/Cuzz/PPS are on wagon, it's not out of the realm of possibility but I want to read that day end and see if that something they needed to do.
So on this note, isn't it kinda smart to all stack up on wagon? It's sorta high risk, because being on wagon on a mislynch makes you more likely to be lynched the next day, but the endgame benefit is pretty clear - it makes them all look like they are not the team. And on this particular day, I think they really could have predicted that LaLight would be going down next with the way I was already pushing him and dead-set on him being scum.
Ok I'm done for the day.
Yep, I was also pretty huge in pushing for lalights lynch, it was an easy wagon for scum to join
You have chosen what you want to believe and are now seeing things that obviously don't fit as evidence you are right.
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heyo I just had a very long day of grading exams and am heading to bed soon, but with Ghacob as the NK I am like 95% sure that the team is faust and Robz. Robz trying to shift the lynch from one of his partners to the other at the end of the day even after pps was confirmed scum was super weird and made no sense from a town perspective.
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Vote count 5.1
faust (1): Robz888
not voting (4): faust, mcmcsalot, iguanaiguana, Cuzz
with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 5 ends monday, march 26th at 13:30 forum time
mod notes
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heyo I just had a very long day of grading exams and am heading to bed soon
This looks like signalling availability for a quickhammer.
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Or I'm just paranoid because the most likely scenario is that Robz is scum.
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I think I can be treated as an IC at this point
Can you explain why?
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I think I can be treated as an IC at this point
Can you explain why?
Because to be scum PPS and I would need to have been scum together. If that was the case, a scum result on you/cuzz/robz depending on who our third partner would be probably ends the game yesterday in a victory. It took 4 to lynch so it only would have taken one townie to believe. (This made me realize something awesome more on that later*) I think if pps and I were both scum, I absolutely would not have fought so so hard while on vacation and gotten pps lynched, sure it results in me being basically an IC today as I claimed, but I feel like the plan would have been to continue vacationing, put up a bit of a fight, fall on my sword, then still nk ghacob the doctor because he would most likely doc the confirmed correct cop, and then pps opens today with a scum result on town and scum wins. Getting PPS lynched if I am scum would now require me to just convince a town member to vote for another town member which is much more difficult than being able to claim a result.
In summary, PPS/MCMC scumteam would have claimed a scum result on town yesterday and if we did decide to pull a crazy gambit would have had PPS live so he could claim a scum result on town today. It is vastly more likely scum pps claimed a scum result on town!mcmc to try and win the game.
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Vote count 4.2
mcmcsalot (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): mcmcsalot
Cuzz (1): faust
faust (1): Cuzz
not voting (3): Robz888, Ghacob, iguanaiguana
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. day 4 ends monday, march 19th at 13:00 forum time.
mod notes
So I realized I think we can get more out of the votes yesterday than I thought. This happens, with faust first voting cuzz and then cuzz voting faust. Iguana votes faust and PPS joins with a naked vote. 14 min go by and iguana unvotes, 16 min later robz shows up. There is almost no chance that a scum team of PPS/Cuzz/Faust does this. It means town!robz could have lynched scum!faust, and pps would have the same dilemma vs me today except he would need to explain why he risked lynching faust over me his confirmed scum read. PPS simply would not have changed a vote off of me whom he claimed to have a result on to vote faust unless it was going for the win. That was kind of the nail in the coffin for pps to get lynched and again I don't see why he does that at all if faust is his partner.
Town!faust worried he will be lynched knows he is town, assumes ghacob is town, assumes iguana is town, and assumes one of mcmc/pps is town so voting cuzz is not the riskiest of plays. It creates a one vs one scenario that now that ghacob is dead and iguana still assumed town isolates the remaining scum of robz. Scum!Faust just advocates for my lynch yesterday instead of doing any of this.
I think I am ready to go Robz then Cuzz. Iguana if you are ready as well I think we can get this game over with and see if we got it right.
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If faust is scum, mvp performance to him. He was just so towny yesterday, reacted quite neutral to the pps claim, stated he found us both scummy so he wasn't sure what to think and that he was suprised pps didn't have a result on him. Slowly came around to finding me towny after asking some questions. Helped out by creating the grouping of him and cuzz after posting many reads about poe and showing he had been thinking about who could be scum left based on who he believes is town. Its just a really really townie approach and isn't the route I would expect scum to take for the win at all.
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heyo I just had a very long day of grading exams and am heading to bed soon
This looks like signalling availability for a quickhammer.
Who do you even think the scumteam is for this to make sense?
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Vote: faust if Robz wants to bus his partner out of the gate and try to win tomorrow I am happy to let him help us survive another day, but I’m confident enough that I really don’t care whether we lynch faust or Robz today
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Unvote
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Because now I'm confused.
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Aww look at you two being all cute and trying to act like you're not on a team.
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Aww look at you two being all cute and trying to act like you're not on a team.
I can't wait to berate you for getting this so wrong.
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But yes, my confusion is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if Cuzz and faust are on a team for Cuzz to vote faust here, when the win is within reach if Cuzz just votes for me.
Cuzz! Who do you think is scum? Faust and... iguana?
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And iguana, I remember yesterday you were desperate to keep alive the possibility that mcmc and PPS were BOTH scum? I said that was stupid, but what do I know (absolutely nothing!). What changed?
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But yes, my confusion is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if Cuzz and faust are on a team for Cuzz to vote faust here, when the win is within reach if Cuzz just votes for me.
Cuzz! Who do you think is scum? Faust and... iguana?
heyo I just had a very long day of grading exams and am heading to bed soon, but with Ghacob as the NK I am like 95% sure that the team is faust and Robz. Robz trying to shift the lynch from one of his partners to the other at the end of the day even after pps was confirmed scum was super weird and made no sense from a town perspective.
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If faust is scum, mvp performance to him. He was just so towny yesterday, reacted quite neutral to the pps claim, stated he found us both scummy so he wasn't sure what to think and that he was suprised pps didn't have a result on him. Slowly came around to finding me towny after asking some questions. Helped out by creating the grouping of him and cuzz after posting many reads about poe and showing he had been thinking about who could be scum left based on who he believes is town. Its just a really really townie approach and isn't the route I would expect scum to take for the win at all.
Yeah I'm ready to vote both of them.
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Vote: Robz
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Vote: Faust
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vote: robz
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vote: Robz
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was i wrong?
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was i wrong?
Yep! I'm town. You blew it.
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was i wrong?
Yep! I'm town. You blew it.
please be trolling please be trolling, please be trolling
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Not trolling. Iguana's quickhammer conspiracy was completely wrong. I am town. I assume it's faust and Cuzz.
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Not trolling. Iguana's quickhammer conspiracy was completely wrong. I am town. I assume it's faust and Cuzz.
Well faust played a fantastic game then. He was just so towny. You really need to do more than sheep me for two days and then be super hedgy when someone claims a cop result on me.
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I actually think if you are town its iguana and cuzz and i'm super super thrilled to have lost to a wonderully played scumguana
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No it's faust you fool, I've been saying this for days.
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Not trolling. Iguana's quickhammer conspiracy was completely wrong. I am town. I assume it's faust and Cuzz.
Well faust played a fantastic game then. He was just so towny. You really need to do more than sheep me for two days and then be super hedgy when someone claims a cop result on me.
I mean, I'm not going to pledge not to hedge, I was legitimately conflicted on which of you is town.
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Not trolling. Iguana's quickhammer conspiracy was completely wrong. I am town. I assume it's faust and Cuzz.
Well faust played a fantastic game then. He was just so towny. You really need to do more than sheep me for two days and then be super hedgy when someone claims a cop result on me.
I mean, I'm not going to pledge not to hedge, I was legitimately conflicted on which of you is town.
But why, you were all I'm obvi town early on and agreed with me that my pps case was good early on then we just had no reason to lynch pps for a couple days because he was a claimed cop.
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Not trolling. Iguana's quickhammer conspiracy was completely wrong. I am town. I assume it's faust and Cuzz.
Well faust played a fantastic game then. He was just so towny. You really need to do more than sheep me for two days and then be super hedgy when someone claims a cop result on me.
I mean, I'm not going to pledge not to hedge, I was legitimately conflicted on which of you is town.
But why, you were all I'm obvi town early on and agreed with me that my pps case was good early on then we just had no reason to lynch pps for a couple days because he was a claimed cop.
Yeah but you seemed more and more like scum to me. You had all the answers, whereas PPS was scrambling.
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I mean, you underestimated how legitimately bad I am at finding scum. So, great job with that, it cost us the game!
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D5 final vote count
faust (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): iguanaiguana, mcmcsalot, Cuzz
not voting (1): faust
with 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch. thread kind of locked.
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https://youtu.be/rmZKVOaTc68?t=29s (https://youtu.be/rmZKVOaTc68?t=29s)
and i am speechless
and all that i said to get it right
and i am confident, you ran off with it all
and i am steadfast
and all that i thought to be precise
and i am consequence, you ran off with it all
and i am sorry
Robz888 has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie
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https://youtu.be/Bf2qhTEghd0?t=1m8s (https://youtu.be/Bf2qhTEghd0?t=1m8s)
did i make you cry? on christmas day
did i let you down? like any other day
did i make you cry? on christmas day
did i let you down? on christmas day
iguanaiguana has been endgamed! he was a vanilla townie
https://youtu.be/eJfOOghrP1E?t=1m3s (https://youtu.be/eJfOOghrP1E?t=1m3s)
only a steelman came to recover
if he had run from cold carryover
we celebrate our sense of each other
we have a lot to give one another
mcmcsalot has been endgamed! he was a vanilla townie
https://youtu.be/5zlxFUlRgdg?t=48s (https://youtu.be/5zlxFUlRgdg?t=48s)
we set out once, with folded shirts,
with hairy chest, and well rehearsed,
i want it all, i want it all for myself
i'll set it right between your eyes,
your shoulder blade, your running knife
i want it all, i want it all for myself
faust has survived and won! he was the difficulty of humans to understand each other, a mafia goon
https://youtu.be/tTj2jBe4XfU?t=2m3s (https://youtu.be/tTj2jBe4XfU?t=2m3s)
carrie come home (thorazine's friend)
holding your hands with opal
like a dead horse (shall we ascend?)
flight of the mayfly
ephemera on my back, she breaks my arm
Cuzz has survived and won! he was the death of carrie, a mafia ascetic goon
https://youtu.be/qx1s_3CF07k?t=2m10s (https://youtu.be/qx1s_3CF07k?t=2m10s)
there's blood on that blade
fuck me i'm falling apart
my assassin, like casper the ghost
there's no shade in the shadow of the cross
the mafia team of pingpongsam, faust and Cuzz has won.
mod: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/crfkwTHTbdJz
spec: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JTZZj6yL3fEku
maf: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pWrriYhDHEthH
thread unlocked i guess
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o yeah cuzz is the mvp
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Good game! The last two days were really fun. Congrats, scum.
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And now for the festival of terrible opinions:
Aww look at you two being all cute and trying to act like you're not on a team.
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Robz has a reads list where he leaves both Cuzz and DatSwan off and then says "Did I miss anyone? Don't think so." Then in his next post he says "Oh, I missed DatSwan!" but acts like he never noticed that he also missed Cuzz. [Cue Robz telling me that honest-to-goodness-that's-what-really-happened]
Honest to goodness that's what happened. (And would not have happened had he been my partner.)
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I mean....... I guess if you are town, it feels bad how you hedged really hard on PPS and pushed McMc as the scummier one. Plus the way that you were viewing the thread shortly before the PPS vote on Faust made it look like you were waiting for him to do a quickhammer and just had an unfortunate timing mishap.
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The scum player who fooled me the most, ironically, was PPS!
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o yeah cuzz is the mvp
Woohoo! First one!
Good game folks.
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Click here for paranoid ramblings: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jriWShiB5tG7 (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jriWShiB5tG7)
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Wow no way.
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Robz you got framed so so bad hahaha
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Nice job scum
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-somebody did something someone else asked them to do today. this fact is very alignment-indicative.
-at least 1 person copped mcmc.
-there's something related to PRs that somebody mentioned on this last page (1350+) that makes me deeply ashamed and i expect a little bit of upsetment in postgame. there weren't any mod errors or anything. this fact is also alignment-indicative
-iguana said scum could vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg750036#msg750036)
-only space did
-i thought this was good reasoning (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18173.msg750084#msg750084) and is the sort of thing i encourage people to think about, and it should have been right except that i made cuzz ascetic. which i didn't think very hard about, i considered that it would be a huge fart in the face of the jailkeeper but gets sorta countered by the watcher (who incidentally immediately died) and could also just be lynched. while it may have been balanced that's not the sort of mechanic i want to have. so, whops.
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I just considered the fact that Robz was viewing the thread before PPS voted to be such such strong evidence that he was scum. And then the terrible way he reacted when I switched to PPS just looked so so much like desperately scrambling scum. That one event completely flipped my reads, which were getting really close to being correct, around.
So I was never going to vote correctly! Oh well, it was hilarious!
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I just considered the fact that Robz was viewing the thread before PPS voted to be such such strong evidence that he was scum. And then the terrible way he reacted when I switched to PPS just looked so so much like desperately scrambling scum. That one event completely flipped my reads, which were getting really close to being correct, around.
So I was never going to vote correctly! Oh well, it was hilarious!
:'(
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Things are getting crazy, so I am just going to do a scum to chum and try to be as clear as I possibly can. I wanted to save this for yesterday but now that scum is scrambling I think I should just lay it out there.
TOWN
Iguana
Ghacob
Robz
Cuzz
McMcsalot
Faust
PPS
Faust was the one who said that scum!PPS loves to bus. Scum needs only ONE mislynch to survive this game. Both PPS and Faust were super scummy going into this day. So PPS giving a false guilty on McMcsalot only tempers my scumread on McMc ever so slightly. A false guilty on his own partner is absolutely the kind of gambit that PPS attempts at LyLo. His goal is very simple: he needs to convince us that this can't be the scum team. Look at the previous days and their partner interactions are pretty strong. And the way that McMc and Faust are reacting to the PPS claim right now isn't exactly very towny.
Look at them sexy reads 8)
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I actually think if you are town its iguana and cuzz and i'm super super thrilled to have lost to a wonderully played scumguana
If only if only hahaha
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I was just sort of hoping that people would realize there was no earthly was I could be scum with Cuzz. I just never ever ever ever ever would have played it like that, totally ignoring and even forgetting about him. I should have made that case more vocally, I guess.
But it wouldn't have worked because I was "caught" reading the thread, gasp.
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Also you were really scummy about PPS. You begged us to switch back to Faust after PPS was literally confirmed scum to us.
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Also you were really scummy about PPS. You begged us to switch back to Faust after PPS was literally confirmed scum to us.
But I was not wrong, faust was scum! When it was "literally confirmed" about PPS I yielded.
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Yeah it just looked bad though. Sorry dude!
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In fairness I was as thrown off as anyone by that pps vote on faust. Dude plays by his own rules.
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Good game y'all!
Retrospect: The Robz-thinking-PPS-scummy deal should have given Robz towncred. After all, mafia would be thinking more about the contents of their posts, and therefore would be less likely to make mistakes like that. (yes, yes, WIFOM aside, blahh)
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I actually think PPS's final vote was the winning play. What a way to make us feel faust was in fact town!
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I actually think PPS's final vote was the winning play. What a way to make us feel faust was in fact town!
Yeah I was just thrown out of my element because I had a vision of how we were going to win and that vote led us to winning for a completely different reason.
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Also props to Robz and mcmc because I had a slight fear of you guys coming away from spending a week together irl knowing that the other was town but y’all are men of integrity.
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Ugh. So I jailkept cuz and got nothing out of it? Super lame.
Almost JKed PPS but went for Faust instead. Blah
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Good job guys!
And I'm glad this doesn't stretch further into my holidays.
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Good job guys!
And I'm glad this doesn't stretch further into my holidays.
So glad I get to call you scum to your face and talk about this game with you while you're still here in person, you evil scum :-P
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Great game everyone. Setting up the cop claim was a gambit that faust and Cuzz played very well into. At some late point iguana said Robz would decide this game and I knew he was right. I knew D3 one of us had to go down when everyone backed away from mcmc. I thought it was possible to win that day but I knew from the townies posting reads we had it in the bag if I went ahead and forced my own flip voting faust and spreading seeds of WIFOM and confusion far and wide. I just wish iguana had been a PR so we would have offed him sooner and been more likely to flawless win. Iguana is scary good at posing town. Except for the LL lynch he was always a tripping hazard. The LL lynch was a piece of work we just had to seal after it got handed to us.
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Iguana, the thing to take from this game is that we understand eachother.
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Pps, was your claim at all affected by my scumread of you early on or no? Because your claim really neutered my reads from day 1.
Congrats to all of scum btw wonderfully played game. And thanks to schaad I had a ton of fun!
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schadd how would you rebalance the PRs? are you never doing ascetic scum ever again?
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And thanks to schaad I had a ton of fun!
this indeed
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Pps, was your claim at all affected by my scumread of you early on or no? Because your claim really neutered my reads from day 1.
Congrats to all of scum btw wonderfully played game. And thanks to schaad I had a ton of fun!
I think my claim was already an idea in my head N0. I was trying to get scum reads early to lend validity to the idea that I wanted to avoid a NK as a useful PR. Also, I wanted a good claim if I got watched/tracked. Also, I liked being able to claim my result publicly and get some town points from my target. I figured Space was the least likely to do this for me but it seemed like they were pretty to quick to want to give me a pass so I would say that worked. The toughest call was whether or not to claim another shot D2.
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My QT where I outline some really good strategy advice for myself to ignore: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/EVZUU3ws4Uv