Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: stechafle on December 23, 2017, 12:05:37 pm

Title: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: stechafle on December 23, 2017, 12:05:37 pm
Happy holidays!

Blessed Village
Crown
Distant Lands
Inn
Menagerie
Miser
Prince
Sacrifice
Shepherd
Stables
Event: Save
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: JKRich on December 23, 2017, 01:52:50 pm
Maybe Miser could be replaced by Peasant->Soldier->Fugitive->Disciple->Teacher?
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: weesh on December 23, 2017, 09:49:35 pm
well done!

i like that gold (gift from the wise men to jesus) will always be in the kingdom!

i'm also not the biggest fan of miser, who is that referring to?
maybe "herald", for the angles singing to the shepherds?

Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: markusin on December 23, 2017, 10:59:53 pm
well done!

i like that gold (gift from the wise men to jesus) will always be in the kingdom!

i'm also not the biggest fan of miser, who is that referring to?
maybe "herald", for the angles singing to the shepherds?

I assume Miser refers to Mr. Scrooge from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: greybirdofprey on December 24, 2017, 06:14:44 am
This is gold.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Awaclus on December 24, 2017, 06:21:30 am
This is gold.

You forgot the picture:

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/50/Gold.jpg/375px-Gold.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: greybirdofprey on December 24, 2017, 06:45:56 am
This is gold.

You forgot the picture:

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/50/Gold.jpg/375px-Gold.jpg)

This was a setup. (this too?)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: JKRich on December 24, 2017, 11:04:52 am
This is gold.
Maybe we should save the pun-ishment for the Easter kingdoms thread? ;) :D ;D 8) :P
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on December 24, 2017, 05:47:37 pm
Here's a board for the holidays, from Donald X. and LastFootnote.

(https://i.imgur.com/P0TWOZM.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HdBAkPW.png) (https://i.imgur.com/eJPkNHu.png) (https://i.imgur.com/EQoCG5H.png) (https://i.imgur.com/aEDMWnH.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8dFOAPP.png) (https://i.imgur.com/q5h14k2.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HVihIaA.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Icanw3n.png) (https://i.imgur.com/o7ITe9n.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/YUaCboM.png) (https://i.imgur.com/KA5ef5m.png)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Watno on December 24, 2017, 05:58:56 pm
Looking forward to the discussions wether these cards are canon.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: dz on December 24, 2017, 10:14:57 pm
The Lights token lets you look at the top card of your deck, and doesn't let you do anything with it?
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Eran of Arcadia on December 24, 2017, 10:35:27 pm
The Lights token lets you look at the top card of your deck, and doesn't let you do anything with it?

Synergizes with Mystic.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: GendoIkari on December 25, 2017, 12:11:26 am
The Lights token lets you look at the top card of your deck, and doesn't let you do anything with it?

Synergizes with Mystic.

Briefly makes people think that it synergizes with Wishing Well before they think about it. Aside from Mystic, there's really not a lot that it works with. Good with Pawn (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Pawn). Possibly Band of Misfits (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits) and Overlord (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Overlord). And Wish (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wish). And Nobles (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Nobles).
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: dz on December 25, 2017, 12:28:25 am
I just realized it says "put your Lights token" instead of "move your lights token"
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Qvist on December 25, 2017, 02:49:06 am
Finally we have Dominion: Unglued
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: AJD on December 25, 2017, 03:32:39 am
The Lights token lets you look at the top card of your deck, and doesn't let you do anything with it?

Synergizes with Mystic.

Briefly makes people think that it synergizes with Wishing Well before they think about it. Aside from Mystic, there's really not a lot that it works with. Good with Pawn (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Pawn). Possibly Band of Misfits (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits) and Overlord (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Overlord). And Wish (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wish). And Nobles (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Nobles).

Well, and any disappearing non-terminal to some extent (e.g. Candlestick Maker), in that it can give you information about what Action to play next.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on December 25, 2017, 07:52:58 am
I love how the Grinch art directly mirrors Jester!
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Accatitippi on December 26, 2017, 04:19:55 am
Eagerly waiting for the Secret History of Dominion: Holy Days!
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Marcory on December 26, 2017, 08:34:14 am
And if you play the Hannukah event you can get 8 Nights in a row!
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: ben_king on December 26, 2017, 12:05:52 pm
So I'm trying to figure out what the best strategy on this board would be.

The villages and the trashing are both very weak. Vacation seems too slow and unreliable here, so that leaves Snowy Village as the only other village.  The problem with using Snowy Village is that it would nerf Magic Hat and Sleigh, which is the best draw.  So I think you'd probably plan on using non-terminal draw (Magic Hats and Sleighs) with a single terminal.  If I'm feeling bold, maybe I'd get one Snowy Village and try to play it after all my non-terminal draw.

So what should the single terminal be?  Snowball fight is the only trashing, but the points from Tree would probably help your opponents more than the junking would hurt, same with Santa's Workshop.  Grinch would probably be pretty good (especially with Tree points), but it seems like Visit would really be the strongest terminal, basically like taking a Possession turn.  We would need a clarification on what happens if Relatives play Visit.  Is it Relatives the whole way down?  Because that might lead to a Duchy rush.  Otherwise the Relative deck probably plays the same way, except the best terminal for the Relative to play is Grinch.

I think I'd open double Silver here on 4-3, or Visit-Socks on 5-2, and I'd sprinkle in a Duchy or two along with Sleigh and Magic Hat.  I would probably need to start greening pretty soon after my deck is able to hit $8, since Provinces will start emptying very quickly after the Relative decks are able to hit $8. 
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on December 26, 2017, 02:12:09 pm
We would need a clarification on what happens if Relatives play Visit.
"If it's not their turn" is supposed to clarify that.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: michaeljb on December 26, 2017, 02:30:17 pm
Looking forward to the discussions wether these cards are canon.

Santa's Workshop should clearly be an Attack, I don't think these cards can be canon.  ;)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: chipperMDW on December 26, 2017, 03:32:26 pm
We would need a clarification on what happens if Relatives play Visit.
"If it's not their turn" is supposed to clarify that.
Ah, but when you're taking your relative's turn for them, shouldn't the sense of "you" actually be your relative? (I mean, when it talks about "your hand," it's really talking about their hand.) So playing Visit should have your relative's relative (presumably you, if the symmetric property of relatedness holds) take an extra turn. So infinite turns!
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: King Leon on December 26, 2017, 03:36:05 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/HdBAkPW.png)

But Moat is strictly better than Socks ...
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: LaLight on December 26, 2017, 03:40:00 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/HdBAkPW.png)

But Moat is strictly better than Socks ...

Itís the other way around. Protection from attacks doesnít make you pleased, this does
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: enfynet on December 26, 2017, 03:44:24 pm
[Socks]

But Moat is strictly better than Socks ...

Itís the other way around. Protection from attacks doesnít make you pleased, this does
Someone could Masquerade and pass you Socks and you don't have to act pleased.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: chipperMDW on December 26, 2017, 07:22:56 pm
Speaking of Masquerade, does your relative sit to your left?
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: crj on December 26, 2017, 07:24:16 pm
Looking forward to the discussions wether these cards are canon.
At first glance, Vacation looks way too overpowered to be canon at $5?

Personally, I'm looking forward to the discussions of the anachronistic electric lights in the artwork...
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: LastFootnote on December 26, 2017, 10:52:37 pm
Personally, I'm looking forward to the discussions of the anachronistic electric lights in the artwork...

I tried to find art without them. I eventually gave up. And Donald found art for the last few cards I was struggling with.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: ben_king on December 27, 2017, 02:48:47 pm
"If it's not their turn" is supposed to clarify that.

Ah, I was reading it a different way, assuming that Relatives might have other Relatives even deeper in the extended family who hadn't played their turn yet, but that wording makes sense now.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: FemurLemur on December 28, 2017, 03:27:29 pm
This is hilarious! Thanks DXV and LastFootnote!

So maybe I need talking down from the ledge, but, Tree is actually a decent Landmark, right? I really want to print one out and play with it. The other cards here are obvious jokes, but it feels like you could include Tree in an official expansion and I wouldn't think it was out of place.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on December 28, 2017, 03:32:14 pm
So maybe I need talking down from the ledge, but, Tree is actually a decent Landmark, right? I really want to print one out and play with it. The other cards here are obvious jokes, but it feels like you could include Tree in an official expansion and I wouldn't think it was out of place.
It's pretty redundant with Labyrinth. Otherwise sure. I preferred Labyrinth because it also works with +Buys, meaning it's dead in fewer games.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on December 28, 2017, 03:36:10 pm
Looking forward to the discussions wether these cards are canon.
At first glance, Vacation looks way too overpowered to be canon at $5?

Personally, I'm looking forward to the discussions of the anachronistic electric lights in the artwork...

Obviously, they were put up by the Groundskeeper.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: crj on December 28, 2017, 03:59:59 pm
So maybe I need talking down from the ledge, but, Tree is actually a decent Landmark, right? I really want to print one out and play with it.
Has anybody print-and-played the whole kingdom yet?

I'm guessing the power levels are seriously wonky, but there are plenty of games which get away with far worse by being funny. (-8

(And because Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without Dominion rules questions: If I buy a Silver then react with a Trader to gain a Silver instead, does the Tree lose track of the Silver and not notice it's the one I bought?)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on December 28, 2017, 04:58:34 pm
(And because Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without Dominion rules questions: If I buy a Silver then react with a Trader to gain a Silver instead, does the Tree lose track of the Silver and not notice it's the one I bought?)
"Lose track" only applies to moving cards and blah blah blah see wiki.

If you use Trader to gain a Silver instead of something else, bought or not, that's a Silver you gained without buying it, so Tree will trigger on it.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on December 28, 2017, 06:48:05 pm
Vacation is like if someone misinterpreted "Double Tactician."
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Seprix on December 29, 2017, 08:09:41 am
(https://i.imgur.com/HdBAkPW.png)

But Moat is strictly better than Socks ...

That's the point, any time you got socks as a Christmas gift you had to bs to your parents that you very much enjoyed the gift.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Awaclus on December 29, 2017, 08:32:42 am
That's the point, any time you got socks as a Christmas gift you had to bs to your parents that you very much enjoyed the gift.

But when you got a moat as a Christmas gift, you actually enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Eran of Arcadia on December 29, 2017, 09:03:01 am
This is true, I received Moat (and the rest of the set) for Christmas and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on December 29, 2017, 10:22:04 am
That's the point, any time you got socks as a Christmas gift you had to bs to your parents that you very much enjoyed the gift.

(https://i.imgur.com/48dj4.png)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: FemurLemur on December 29, 2017, 02:13:40 pm
So maybe I need talking down from the ledge, but, Tree is actually a decent Landmark, right? I really want to print one out and play with it. The other cards here are obvious jokes, but it feels like you could include Tree in an official expansion and I wouldn't think it was out of place.
It's pretty redundant with Labyrinth. Otherwise sure. I preferred Labyrinth because it also works with +Buys, meaning it's dead in fewer games.

Oh right, that's true. I like Tree a lot because I irrationally love on-gains and gainers (who doesn't like free bonuses!?), but from a design point of view, the fact that it will do nothing in many games makes it less desirable. I guess it wants to have a secondary ability... I've got it! Let's make it so that it gets you the VPs on-gain and on additional buys! Oh, wait...
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: King Leon on December 29, 2017, 02:33:13 pm
This fixes Socks:

(https://abload.de/img/pleasedy2uqs.png) (https://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Pleased&description=At%20the%20start%20of%20your%20Buy%20phase%2C%20you%20may%20return%20this.%20If%20you%20do%3A%20%2B1%20Buy%20and%20cards%20(everywhere)%20cost%20%241%20less%2C%20but%20not%20less%20than%20%240&type=State&credit=&price=&preview=&type2=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fak9.picdn.net%2Fshutterstock%2Fvideos%2F21399469%2Fthumb%2F2.jpg&c0.0=1.5&c0.1=1.5&c0.2=1.5&color1=0&size=1)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: cascadestyler on December 29, 2017, 07:18:33 pm
This fixes Socks:

(https://abload.de/img/pleasedy2uqs.png) (https://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Pleased&description=At%20the%20start%20of%20your%20Buy%20phase%2C%20you%20may%20return%20this.%20If%20you%20do%3A%20%2B1%20Buy%20and%20cards%20(everywhere)%20cost%20%241%20less%2C%20but%20not%20less%20than%20%240&type=State&credit=&price=&preview=&type2=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fak9.picdn.net%2Fshutterstock%2Fvideos%2F21399469%2Fthumb%2F2.jpg&c0.0=1.5&c0.1=1.5&c0.2=1.5&color1=0&size=1)

That is ruddy terrifying
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: King Leon on January 01, 2018, 07:16:50 am
This fixes Socks:

(https://abload.de/img/pleasedy2uqs.png) (https://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Pleased&description=At%20the%20start%20of%20your%20Buy%20phase%2C%20you%20may%20return%20this.%20If%20you%20do%3A%20%2B1%20Buy%20and%20cards%20(everywhere)%20cost%20%241%20less%2C%20but%20not%20less%20than%20%240&type=State&credit=&price=&preview=&type2=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fak9.picdn.net%2Fshutterstock%2Fvideos%2F21399469%2Fthumb%2F2.jpg&c0.0=1.5&c0.1=1.5&c0.2=1.5&color1=0&size=1)

That is ruddy terrifying

I should add: until the end of your turn.

Yes, after Christmas everything is cheaper and people are so Pleased about their money gifts and the money for returning gifts, so that the one-time bridge effect sounds good here.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Violet CLM on January 01, 2018, 06:16:11 pm
I thought Magic Hat+Distant Lands would be a good deal, but a closer read of the latter suggests I was wrong. :(
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: ackmondual on January 02, 2018, 03:29:41 am
Happy holidays!

Blessed Village
Crown
Distant Lands
Inn
Menagerie
Miser
Prince
Sacrifice
Shepherd
Stables
Event: Save

I would also add in Alms

.

as for the Donald X-mas set, not interested unless there's egg nog involved ;)
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: King Leon on January 02, 2018, 05:00:26 pm
When I play something like Nobles, Mill or Harem with Magic Hat, do I also receive their effects? Could I also play a Night/Victory if one existed?

Edit: Magic Hat is also bad in the German translations which add "Bei Spielende" ("at the end of the game") to many Victory cards.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on January 02, 2018, 05:06:45 pm
When I play something like Nobles, Mill or Harem with Magic Hat, do I also receive their effects? Could I also play a Night/Victory if one existed?

Edit: Magic Hat is also bad in the German translations which add "Bei Spielende" ("at the end of the game") to many Victory cards.
You do get the effects of playing the VP cards, and can play a Victory-whatever.

I don't make design decisions based on translation mistakes. For a while, when I knew that the German Duration cards incorrectly used a dividing line, I thought, well, don't make a card that makes that matter, and I probably wasn't going to anyway. But Enchantress makes it matter so there.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Boffo on January 06, 2018, 06:17:46 pm
Shouldn't Grinch say 'Reveal and Gain...'? Otherwise everyone else will have to guess whether to be unhappy or not.
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Donald X. on January 06, 2018, 07:03:08 pm
Shouldn't Grinch say 'Reveal and Gain...'? Otherwise everyone else will have to guess whether to be unhappy or not.
The idea was that the cards would be riddled with things people could nitpick about, for the people who really enjoy nitpicking. Fun for everyone!
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: Boffo on January 06, 2018, 08:22:43 pm
Shouldn't Grinch say 'Reveal and Gain...'? Otherwise everyone else will have to guess whether to be unhappy or not.
The idea was that the cards would be riddled with things people could nitpick about, for the people who really enjoy nitpicking. Fun for everyone!

Yes, but it's only natural for nitpickers to try and work out what were the INTENTIONAL vagaries, and which ones are those that were genuinely overlooked.  :D
Title: Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
Post by: greybirdofprey on January 07, 2018, 03:38:41 am
When I play something like Nobles, Mill or Harem with Magic Hat, do I also receive their effects? Could I also play a Night/Victory if one existed?

Edit: Magic Hat is also bad in the German translations which add "Bei Spielende" ("at the end of the game") to many Victory cards.
You do get the effects of playing the VP cards, and can play a Victory-whatever.

I don't make design decisions based on translation mistakes. For a while, when I knew that the German Duration cards incorrectly used a dividing line, I thought, well, don't make a card that makes that matter, and I probably wasn't going to anyway. But Enchantress makes it matter so there.

I think they do this on Dutch durations too. I'll check when I get home.