# Dominion Strategy Forum

## Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: Ingix on December 12, 2017, 04:56:37 pm

Title: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Ingix on December 12, 2017, 04:56:37 pm
It seems to be consensus that (without any special circumstances), after you play Champion you have exactly the same number of Actions left as before, because playing it use up an Action, and the first effect of Champion is to give you back an Action.

But shouldn't Champion trigger on it's own playing, thus giving an additional action?
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: pacovf on December 12, 2017, 05:03:56 pm
You play the Champion before triggering its effects, so no, you don't retroactively get an additional action for the play of the Champion itself.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Donald X. on December 12, 2017, 05:26:07 pm
It seems to be consensus that (without any special circumstances), after you play Champion you have exactly the same number of Actions left as before, because playing it use up an Action, and the first effect of Champion is to give you back an Action.

But shouldn't Champion trigger on it's own playing, thus giving an additional action?
Let's pretend it says "first." Well there you go, it says "first," so it happens before Champion resolves, so you didn't have the ability yet.

The other things like this in Adventures are timed "first." Champion is intended to have that same timing. It leaves off the word because it only matters for Diadem and is heavily implied by Champion giving +1 Action.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Ingix on December 12, 2017, 05:32:41 pm
Just to verify: Throne Rooming a Champion (nothing special happening before, etc.) should result in the player having 3 Actions (2 generated by the +1 Action on the Champion (twice), the other is the first Champion effect seeing the Champion played a second time).
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Donald X. on December 12, 2017, 05:39:48 pm
Just to verify: Throne Rooming a Champion (nothing special happening before, etc.) should result in the player having 3 Actions (2 generated by the +1 Action on the Champion (twice), the other is the first Champion effect seeing the Champion played a second time).
Yes.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Ingix on December 12, 2017, 05:52:45 pm
Thx again!
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: crj on December 13, 2017, 11:32:37 pm
Hmm. So if you Throne a Champion, from then on you get +1 Action per time you played Champion, each time you play an Action?

I'm now contemplating a Procession-Champion-Lurker-Diadem hack. (-8
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: enfynet on December 13, 2017, 11:57:33 pm
Yeah if you play Procession on Champion, you get +2 Actions every time you play an action.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Jeebus on December 14, 2017, 03:13:25 pm
Math puzzle: How many actions do you have after playing KC-KC-Champ-Champ-Champ?
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: pacovf on December 14, 2017, 03:29:57 pm
KC                  0
KC                0
Champion    0
Champion    1
Champion    3
KC                6
Champion    9
Champion  13
Champion  18
KC               24
Champion  30
Champion  37
Champion  45

Or Sum_{n=1}^9 ( n-1 ) + Sum_{n=1}^3 ( 3(n-1) )

EDIT: +9 actions because Champion gives an action, as Watno rightfully points out.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: enfynet on December 14, 2017, 03:40:58 pm
KC                  0
KC                0
Champion    0
Champion    1
Champion    3
KC                6
Champion    9
Champion  13
Champion  18
KC               24
Champion  30
Champion  37
Champion  45

Or Sum_{n=1}^9 ( n-1 ) + Sum_{n=1}^3 ( 3(n-1) )
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Watno on December 14, 2017, 03:48:34 pm
KC                  0
KC                0
Champion    0
Champion    1
Champion    3
KC                6
Champion    9
Champion  13
Champion  18
KC               24
Champion  30
Champion  37
Champion  45

Or Sum_{n=1}^9 ( n-1 ) + Sum_{n=1}^3 ( 3(n-1) )

You forgot the 9 actions the Champions themselves give when played.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: Jeebus on December 14, 2017, 03:57:10 pm
I also got 45, but calculated differently. You first play KC-KC-KC (and have 0 actions), then play Champ 9 times, using up no more actions. Each time gives you 1 more action than last time, since you have 1 more previously played Champ. The first gives you just 1, the second 2, etc. Thus: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45.

EDIT: Right, you also play the 2nd KC when you have played 3 Champs (+3 actions), and also when you have played 6 Champs (+6 actions), so the total is indeed 54.
Title: Re: Why isn't Champion triggering on itself being played?
Post by: theory on December 14, 2017, 04:33:19 pm
KC                  0
KC                0
Champion    0
Champion    1
Champion    3
KC                6
Champion    9
Champion  13
Champion  18
KC               24
Champion  30
Champion  37
Champion  45

Or Sum_{n=1}^9 ( n-1 ) + Sum_{n=1}^3 ( 3(n-1) )