Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Qvist on December 07, 2017, 02:48:02 am
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Five years have already passed since the first Dominion Card Lists were compiled, the skill level of all players raised and a lot of new knowledge is gained. Again a new expansion was released and also the second Edition came out, so everyone is eager to learn how the new cards rank. That means it's time for the 2017 edition of the Dominion Card Lists.
What do you have to do?
If you like to contribute, go to http://www.qvist.de/dommesh for the best cards list, http://www.qvist.de/dommesh_fav for your favourite cards and http://www.qvist.de/dommesh_art for the best card art.
This video from last year walks you basically through how the web app works or just read on:
https://youtu.be/V0EH_qXIY3w
I'm not the best web designer to make it look nice, but it works. You have 3 options to submit your list. You can 1.) compare two cards at a time or 2.) order the cards all at once in a big list or 3.) rate them with numerical values. If you do the first option, the app will tell you when you're done and no new "card duel" is available anymore. Internally option 1 and 2 is stored in one list and option 3 in a separate list. There are 2 links for exporting one list to another, so you can for example first give each card a numerical value for a rough estimate and then copy the list and fine tune it by either ordering them or do the remaining comparisms. I didn't include a registration or anything like that for this simple app. You can just login by your ShuffleIT name and any password you like. The next time you login you just have to remember the password you've set on your first login. I expect that nobody will trick me by using a user name of anyone else. If you have no ShuffleIT account, just use a user name of your choice. If you don't know an expansion very well you can choose to leave it out. But be sure that if you want to include a card of a specific expansion, you have to rank all cards of the expansion. There are no restriction with Promo cards, so if you don't know e.g. Summon very well, you can leave it out.
To clarify as there is much confusion apparently: You can vote in any of the 3 methods. Therefore a S, A, B, C, D, E, F voting works as long as you convert that to a 7 to 1 rating in the "Rate" method. Also: Don't forget to mark your lists as finished when you are.
Cards are only counted if they are kingdom cards. If you want to look up the card texts and also the last year's lists, just go to our wiki. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com
If you submit your list, you also agree that I may give this to third party, like theory or rrenaud. If you don't agree send me a PM.
If you've submitted last year, I will not take your last submission into account.
I included extra lists for Prizes, individual Knights, Ruins, Events, Landmarks, Boons and Hexes. These are optional, you don't have to rank them if you don't want.
For Hexes, the "best" one is the one that is the most harmful.
You can also if you want rank all the kingdom cards in one big list. This is also optional as this takes a lot of time.
Dismantle is not included yet as most are unfamiliar with it.
Usual disclaimer: This list should cause discussion not hassle. Of course it's difficult to compare some of the cards because pretty much every card has some situations where it shines and situations where it doesn't. This isn't a scientific list, just a compiled list of the community's opinion of the best cards.
What else?
Submission deadline is the 31st of Dececember 11:59pm UTC.
Each card will get a percentage value based on the rank. So your best card gets 100% and your worst gets 0%. This will result in a compiled list of all of your lists.
As I don't have much time this year, results will get presented by a group of people with the upside of the results being presented in a much shorter time frame. Thanks for all the volunteers.
If you encounter some bugs, just send me a PM and I'll fix them ASAP.
Let's see how many submissions we get this time. The more we get the better the rankings will be. I can't wait to get your submissions. If you have any questions, ask them here.
Results
$0-$2 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18141.0)
$0-$2 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18147.0)
$3 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18150.0)
$3 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18152.0)
$4 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18153.0)
$4 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18156.0)
$5 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18161.0)
$5 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18163.0)
$5 cards Part 3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18164.0)
$6+ cards (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18170.0)
Potion cards (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18181.0)
Ruins (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18177.0)
Knights (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18165.0)
Prizes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18166.0)
Events (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18185.0)
Landmarks (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18184.0)
Boons (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18188.0)
Hexes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18187.0)
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Sticky?
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Don't use the copy feature for now. It seems that the web hoster can't handle the load that happen when doing that.
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I was doing the best art list, and I got scout vs harem. I'm still stuck on it. I can't decide which one looks worse.
They both scare me. A lot.
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I was doing the best art list, and I got scout vs harem. I'm still stuck on it. I can't decide which one looks worse.
They both scare me. A lot.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Navigator.jpg) v. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Zombie_Apprentice.jpg)
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I did not even bother with the art list this time around. Takes too much time.
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I was doing the best art list, and I got scout vs harem. I'm still stuck on it. I can't decide which one looks worse.
They both scare me. A lot.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Navigator.jpg) v. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Zombie_Apprentice.jpg)
What's wrong with Zombie Apprentice?
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I was doing the best art list, and I got scout vs harem. I'm still stuck on it. I can't decide which one looks worse.
They both scare me. A lot.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Navigator.jpg) v. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Zombie_Apprentice.jpg)
What's wrong with Zombie Apprentice?
There's a lot of discussion on it from the Preview thread, but I think this one sums it up really well:
I think I know what irks me with the art. Several things are really muddy, but other things look highly realistic. It appears as if the creator had just copied pictures together and painted over them, which also explains the off perspective, eg. for Celine's Apprentice's foot and Mason's wall. It looks a lot like the images in those dreadful object searching apps.
This particular comparison was difficult for me because I dislike them both for very different reasons.
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I did not even bother with the art list this time around. Takes too much time.
Conversely, the art list is probably the only one I will be doing, due to my lack of experience.
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There's a lot of discussion on it from the Preview thread, but I think this one sums it up really well:
I think I know what irks me with the art. Several things are really muddy, but other things look highly realistic. It appears as if the creator had just copied pictures together and painted over them, which also explains the off perspective, eg. for Celine's Apprentice's foot and Mason's wall. It looks a lot like the images in those dreadful object searching apps.
This particular comparison was difficult for me because I dislike them both for very different reasons.
I think it looks pretty good.
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My approach this year is to divide Dominion cards into categories (e.g. splitters, terminal draw, non-terminal draw, trashers), and then quicksort each category. Sorting cards within each category is easier, and also the most important part to get right in the rankings. Later I will merge the categories. A bunch of cards are in multiple categories, which will help with merging a bit.
I'm skipping the art and fav rankings this year because I just don't have the time.
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Didn't we already do this? Or has 2017 just been a really fast year?
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Seeing all those removed cards made me feel nostalgic. :'(
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Didn't we already do this? Or has 2017 just been a really fast year?
For various reasons, the 2016 list reveal stretched well into 2017. Mostly the immense workload it placed on Qvist made it hard to keep releasing in a regular fashion. But it has been about an entire year since we ranked cards.
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I've finished almost all the cost rankings except for the massive $5 list which I've been putting off until now. And man, there are so many new $5s since last year with Nocturne and 2nd Edition...
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Anyone else having issues connecting to the page?
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Anyone else having issues connecting to the page?
I don't.
Btw. first reminder to everyone who has finished ranking/voting: MARK YOUR LIST AS FINISHED so that it counts
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I finished my rankings.
It makes it a lot faster when you use order mode and refer to your list from the previous year (which I kept).
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Friendly reminder that we are getting close to the finishing line.
Finish your list and MARK YOUR LIST AS FINISHED so that it counts.
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The matching takes so much time. It seems to be an average of O(n) = n*log(n).
Finally got it. The $5 cards are hard!
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That why ordering or rating is recommended. Matching is probably more fun, but yeah it takes a lot of time.
Last 2 days guys. Make sure to finish your lists and MARK THEM AS FINISHED.
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Results are collected and sent to the presenters. They start to get posted in a week.
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Results are collected and sent to the presenters. They start to get posted in a week.
That's some quick turnaround!
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Just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone involved in gathering and publishing the 2017 Cards List results!!! Thanks of course to Qvist for continuing to compile the stats, and a huge thanks to all the presenters who took the time to write up excellent thoughts on all the cards. I did miss Qvist's videos a bit, but overall I really appreciated all of the various opinions and thoughts. I haven't played as much the last year or so, and I learned a number of new tips from the comments. And getting the lists published so fast was just really great!!
Having said that, I would like to see the Wiki page on the Qvist Cards List fully updated for 2017 results:
- Landmarks results need to be added for 2017.
- Boons results need to be added for 2017.
- Hexes results need to be added for 2017.
- Maybe add the Events list also???...duplicates what is in the cost rankings, but kind of nice to see them next to the Landmarks (optional).
- It would be really nice if someone could review the first couple paragraphs and add the number of users submitting rankings for both 2016 and 2017.
And one final suggestion. At this rate the page width is going to get very crowded in another year or two. An easy fix would be to drop the characters " Ed." from all of the column headings which would make the columns narrower. It works because you only have 1-3 digit numbers below them, and the concept of Edition doesn't add anything to the annual results when there is only one poll a year. The first year column headings could simply be "2012 #1" and "2012 #2". All of the other years could simply be the year number since I don't think there will ever be 2 rankings in a year again.
Thanks again to everyone who helped put this out in such a timely manner! This list has always been one of my main reference points, and I think it is an extremely valuable resource for newer players.
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Just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone involved in gathering and publishing the 2017 Cards List results!!! ... getting the lists published so fast was just really great!!
+the number of possible unique Dominion kingdoms!
This list has always been one of my main reference points, and I think it is an extremely valuable resource for newer players.
So true, which is why I have a suggestion, and that would be to make the following change to the end of the Card Lists description paragraph: change "like the Dark Ages cards in 2013" to "like Dismantle in late 2017" This will save newer players from wondering "Where's Dismantle?" as I did at first about Sauna/Avanto last year. Obviously the 2013 reference is outdated, and since Dismantle was available online in 2017 some (maybe even me :-[ :-[) might go to the page expecting to find it.
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$0-$2 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18141.0)
$0-$2 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18147.0)
$3 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18150.0)
$3 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18152.0)
$4 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18153.0)
$4 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18156.0)
$5 cards Part 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18161.0)
$5 cards Part 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18163.0)
$5 cards Part 3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18164.0)
$6+ cards (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18170.0)
Potion cards (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18181.0)
Ruins (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18177.0)
Knights (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18165.0)
Prizes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18166.0)
Events (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18185.0)
Landmarks (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18184.0)
Boons (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18188.0)
Hexes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18187.0)
Things were starting to get a bit messy to find so I decided to make this, might be good to add to the first post.
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Things were starting to get a bit messy to find so I decided to make this, might be good to add to the first post.
Done, thanks very much.
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Things were starting to get a bit messy to find so I decided to make this, might be good to add to the first post.
Now Beyond Awesome could add the list to the front page, since there hasn't been an update in a month. Time to take down the Christmas lights dude!
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Things were starting to get a bit messy to find so I decided to make this, might be good to add to the first post.
Done, thanks very much.
You're welcome. And thanks for creating these great lists! :)
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Will the 'favorite cards' rankings be posted?
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Will the 'favorite cards' rankings be posted?
Yes, give me some time. I need to change some code for that
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I was doing the best art list, and I got scout vs harem. I'm still stuck on it. I can't decide which one looks worse.
They both scare me. A lot.
Jester vs pillage
Those ones are scary