Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Archetype on November 28, 2017, 12:55:11 am

Title: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (GAME OVER - EVIL PLAYERS WIN)
Post by: Archetype on November 28, 2017, 12:55:11 am
M111: Super Smash Bros Melee

Master Hand: Archetype   
Crazy Hand: iguanaiguana   

Ready to Fight:
1. mcmcsalot
2. ashersky Lynched D3. He was Bowser, the Vanilla Good
3. Galzria
4. DatSwan Lynched D2. He was Pikachu, the Vanilla Good
5. Robz888
6. seanbean EFHW Killed N2. She was Marth, the Good Tracker
7. AndrewisFTTW Eevee
8. faust Killed N1. He was Sheik, the Vanilla Good
9. Joseph2302 Lynched D1. He was Yoshi, the Good Roleblocker
10. gkrieg13
11. Teproc
12. chairs theorel
13. IDontPlayThisGame
14. O

Commentators: 2.7, Roadrunner7671


The Rules:

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, donít get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. Players must post once every 24 hours.
6. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
7. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
8. Cryptography is not allowed.
9. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
10. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
11. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: Unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may Vote: No Lynch. If a majority is reached here, no lynch occurs.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Blue text is reserved for the Mod. No other player may use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.
3. Nights may be shortened in certain cases to speed up the game, but only if no player opposes it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 28, 2017, 12:55:24 am
Setup Information
In a world...where the majority of SSBM characters are actually competitively viable...

This is a Normal, Semi-Open Mafia game for at least 12 players designed by Archetype. It is based off the popular video game Super Smash Bros Melee. In this game, there are 15 (at least, for now ;)) possible characters each player can be and each has a role potentially associate with them (listed in the post below). The manner in which these characters are distributed and influence the game are described as follows.

Choose your character!
When you sign up (or, at least, before the game begins), PM me a list of Super Smash Bros Melee characters (as listed below) ranked from most desired to least. This list can be updated before the game's start time and will never be revealed (and your personal list should not be discussed before the game starts). You need not list every character and it may be strategically advantageous not to. Once the game begins, players will be assigned their character based on the list they submitted.

Assignment works as follows:
1) Each player will be ranked based on the number of characters in their list. Players with the least number of characters in their list will be at the top of the ranking. Ties between players with an equal number of listed characters will be decided randomly.
2) Starting at the top of the player ranking list and moving downwards, each player will be given the character at the top of their list (their most desired one) that has not already been assigned to another player.
3) If, when attempting to assign a character to a player, all characters in their list have already been assigned to other players, they will be moved to the bottom of the player ranking.
4) Continue assigning characters down the rank in this manner until only those who have no available characters on their character list remain. Assign each of these players a random character from the list of remaining available ones.

***NOTE: Who gets assigned to be which character is NOT public information.***

Ready....Go!
Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up). They will be given a factional chat topic and a kill. They will also be given a factional 2-shot Oracle detailed below:
Quote
Twice during the game at night, one Evil player may ask the Master Hand or Crazy Hand a Yes/No question about the game's setup. Questions can only be about the game state as it were when the game started and never specify player names in the game. For example: "Is Archetype Sheik?" and "Has Sheik ever targeted Zelda?" are both illegal but "Are Sheik and Zelda in the game?" or "Is Sheik Vanilla?" are both legal.

The remaining will be aligned with Good. Their respective wincons are listed below:
Quote
Evil: You win if the majority of players aligned are Evil or nothing can prevent it from occurring.
Quote
Good: You win if no Evil players are alive.

Each player will either have the power associated with them as detailed below or simply be a Vanilla member of their faction, depending on balancing. Balancing will be determined based on which characters are chosen to be included in the game and which ones end up being good or evil. It is guaranteed that at least one player will be Vanilla.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 28, 2017, 12:55:31 am
The Characters

1. [Mario] - (Novice Vanilla Cop) - Each night after Night 1, you may target one player. You will be told their role in the form of Vanilla/Not Vanilla.
2. [Yoshi] - (Roleblocker) - Each night you may target one player. All actions they use that night will fail.
3. [Donkey Kong] - (Odd-Night Strong-willed Bodyguard) - Each night you MUST target one player. Any killing actions that target them will target you instead. On odd nights, all actions you use cannot be blocked or redirected by other playersí actions.
4. [Link] - (Jack-Of-All-Trades) - 1-shot Tracker (Target a player to find out who they target), 1-shot Doctor (Protect a target from a killing action), 1-shot Ascetic (Block all non-killing actions)
5. [Samus] - (Encrypting 2-shot Sensoring Detective) - While you are alive, the Evil players can use their factional chat during the day. Twice during the game at night, you may choose one of two groups: players on the lynch wagon from the previous day or those off of it. You will be told how many Evil players in that group have used their faction's kill at least once before up to that day.
6. [Fox] - (2-shot Diverter) - At night twice during the game, you may target one player. All actions that target you that night will target that player instead.
7. [Pikachu] - (1-shot Lightning Rod) - At night once during the game, you may choose to use this power. All other players actions will target you instead of their intended target.
8. [Captain Falcon] - (Modified Flavor Cop) - Each night you may target one player. You will be told their Flavor Name. When you die, a list of all flavor names you have ever detected will be revealed publicly.
9. [Ness] - (1-shot Bus Driver) - At night once during the game you may target one player and then another. Any actions that target the first player will instead target the second and vice versa.
10. [Peach] - (Self-Watcher) - Each night you will be told the names of all players who targeted you that night.
11. [Bowser] - (Supersaint) - If you are lynched, you will also kill whoever cast the hammer vote.
12. [Zelda] - (1-shot Commuter) - At night once during the game you may choose to use this power. All actions that would normally target you will fail instead - guaranteed. Cannot be used in conjunction with any other actions.
13. [Sheik] - (Even-Night Ninja Doctor) - Each night you MUST target one player. They will be protected from one killing action. On even nights, all actions you take cannot be detected by other playersí actions used that night.
14. [Ice Climbers] - (1-shot Deathproof) - The first time you would be killed (including lynches), you will survive.
15. [Kirby] - (Universal Backup) - When the first non-Vanilla player dies, you will inherit their powers. If a X-shot PR dies with no shots left, it will not be valid for inheritance.
16. [Marth] - (Tracker) - Each night you may target one player. You will be told the names of all players they targeted that night. You will be told "No Result" if your action was blocked.
17. [Jigglypuff] - (1-shot Paranoid Gun Owner) - At night once during the game you may choose to use this power. All players who target you with an action will be killed.
18. [Falco] - (Ascetic) - All non-killing actions that target you each night will fail.
19. [Ganondorf] -  (1-shot Limited Vigilante) - Once during the game at night you may target one player. If they are Vanilla, they will be killed
20. [Luigi] - (Non-Consecutive Night Sidekick) - Every other night, you may target one player. All actions that target them will target you instead.
21. [Roy] - (Motion Detector) - Each night you may target one player. You will be told "Motion Detected" if they targeted anyone or if anyone targeted them and "No Motion Detected" otherwise. You will be told "No Result" if your action was blocked.
22. [Dr. Mario] - (Pill Vendor) - Each night you may target one player. All actions they take that night cannot be blocked or redirected. They will be told they received a pill that night.
23. [Young Link] - (Jack-Of-All-Trades) - 1-shot Self-Watcher (Be told the names of all players who targeted you), 1-shot Roleblocker (Block all actions a player takes), 1-shot Bodyguard (Have all killing actions that target one player target you instead)
24. [Pichu] - (Weak Visitor) - Each night you may target one player. If that player is Evil, you will kill yourself.
25. [Mr. Game and Watch] - (Neighborizer) - Each night (including N0), you may target one player. I will generate a number from 1 to 9 that hasn't been generated before. You will be given a private chat to talk in that is open for a number of IRL days equal to the generated number. Conversation may continue even if one of you is killed during that timespan.
26. [Mewtwo] - (2-shot Inverting Redirector) - Each night you may target one player and then target another. All actions the first player uses will target the second instead. If the first player you target is Evil, their team's Oracle results for that night will be secretly inverted (No instead of Yes and Yes instead of No).

**NOTE: When a player dies, their Alignment {Good/Evil}, [Flavor Name], and (Role Name) will be released**


Action Resolution in case of conflict
1. Commuter
2. Lightning Rod
3. Diverter
4. Bus Driver
5. Bodyguard
6. Sidekick
7. Blocking
8. Redirector
9. Protect
10. Miscellaneous
11. Kill
12. Inspect


Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 28, 2017, 01:03:05 am
/fox
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: ashersky on November 28, 2017, 01:52:43 am
/innards
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 28, 2017, 02:02:10 am
>ew redirection
>sensor is mad swingy
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Galzria on November 28, 2017, 04:35:43 am
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 28, 2017, 06:53:13 am
>sensor is mad swingy
Agreed. Definitely won't sign up with that role in the game.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: LaLight on November 28, 2017, 08:00:15 am
>sensor is mad swingy
Agreed. Definitely won't sign up with that role in the game.

Sensor here is a very weak 1-shot cop, read the description
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 28, 2017, 09:54:38 am
>sensor is mad swingy
Agreed. Definitely won't sign up with that role in the game.

Sensor here is a very weak 1-shot cop, read the description
I read the description and it says that the role can potentially clear >50% of all living players as town, which is usually an instawin for town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: iguanaiguana on November 28, 2017, 10:12:04 am
Hm. Yeah. Therefore it also forces scum to play with at least one on and one off every serious wagon, which is a pretty bad handicap for them.

I guess that's why they get daychat.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Teproc on November 28, 2017, 06:46:42 pm
Yeah, it just means scum has to be careful not to be all on-wagon, and poof, the role does basically nothing. Which seems fine to me.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 28, 2017, 07:17:34 pm
I like the mind games for scum involved with having an Encrypting Sensor, so I am going to try to fit it in if possible. I changed it a bit to give scum a bit more leeway.

CHALLENGER APPROACHING

Marth the Tracker has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 28, 2017, 11:08:04 pm
marf!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 28, 2017, 11:09:21 pm
it's not really an issue since it's closed/designed but i would think samus on town is either anti-town utility or like a really small benefit
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 29, 2017, 01:19:45 am
Everyone in this game is a PR, right? Why is it not labeled RMM?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 29, 2017, 01:21:14 am
Ah, no, nevermind, I just saw the thing.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Swowl on November 29, 2017, 05:31:38 am
/iiinnnnnnn
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Lekkit on November 29, 2017, 08:41:55 am
My main is still missing. :(

I probably don't have time to play in the upcoming months, so I probably won't join even if he's incorporated.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: pacovf on November 29, 2017, 09:44:52 am
Awesome flavour
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 29, 2017, 10:53:41 am
Will players that have been chosen to be Vanilla still retain the flavor names assigned to them in the draft?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 29, 2017, 11:23:20 am
Will players that have been chosen to be Vanilla still retain the flavor names assigned to them in the draft?
Yeah!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Robz888 on November 29, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
Very tempted.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Galzria on November 29, 2017, 12:29:41 pm
/in

Just think - it'll almost be the EoY by the time this gets rolling. Your book will be done by then (Hopefully? Right?) so you'll be good to go!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 29, 2017, 12:44:36 pm
his what!!?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Galzria on November 29, 2017, 01:18:16 pm
his what!!?

The Oxford Dictionary has this to say about "Book":
Noun
"A written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 29, 2017, 02:13:00 pm
Will players that have been chosen to be Vanilla still retain the flavor names assigned to them in the draft?
Yeah!
Ugh. Well then I'm out. This just makes for unfun D1 massclaim stuff.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 29, 2017, 02:14:22 pm
Which is fine really. I should limit myself to 1 game at a time anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 29, 2017, 02:23:52 pm
Will players that have been chosen to be Vanilla still retain the flavor names assigned to them in the draft?
Yeah!
Ugh. Well then I'm out. This just makes for unfun D1 massclaim stuff.
:( ok

CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Jigglypuff the 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owner has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 29, 2017, 02:26:01 pm
Very tempted.
(https://s7.postimg.org/nei2jb8ff/do_it.jpg)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Robz888 on November 29, 2017, 02:41:50 pm
his what!!?

The Oxford Dictionary has this to say about "Book":
Noun
"A written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."

Yeah, I'm writing a book, got a publisher and everything! Political nonfiction. I suspect many people on these forums will disagree with parts of it, but hopefully everyone can learn something about how others think.

Hey arch, put me down for a tentative /in, but please check with me before the game actually starts!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Eevee on November 29, 2017, 02:42:00 pm
I'm in if Robz is. (peer pressure)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on November 29, 2017, 04:12:05 pm
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: 2.71828..... on November 29, 2017, 05:16:12 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 30, 2017, 02:48:46 am
Whatevs. /in since schadd doesn't want me in his game.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 30, 2017, 02:51:22 am
his what!!?

The Oxford Dictionary has this to say about "Book":
Noun
"A written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."

Yeah, I'm writing a book, got a publisher and everything! Political nonfiction. I suspect many people on these forums will disagree with parts of it, but hopefully everyone can learn something about how others think.

Hey arch, put me down for a tentative /in, but please check with me before the game actually starts!
Personally I was hoping for a novel. Oh well.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 30, 2017, 03:17:53 am
Whatevs. /in since schadd doesn't want me in his game.
idk dude... just sayin... have u considered deodorant........
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on November 30, 2017, 07:13:07 am
Whatevs. /in since schadd doesn't want me in his game.
idk dude... just sayin... have u considered deodorant........
Confirmed: schadd's next game will be deodorant-themed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on November 30, 2017, 10:34:22 am
Whatevs. /in since schadd doesn't want me in his game.
YEE

CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Falco the Ascetic has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: schadd on November 30, 2017, 12:04:59 pm
Whatevs. /in since schadd doesn't want me in his game.
idk dude... just sayin... have u considered deodorant........
Confirmed: schadd's next game will be deodorant-themed.
deodorant is already like the mafia faction in this game lmao
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Robz888 on November 30, 2017, 02:42:45 pm
his what!!?

The Oxford Dictionary has this to say about "Book":
Noun
"A written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."

Yeah, I'm writing a book, got a publisher and everything! Political nonfiction. I suspect many people on these forums will disagree with parts of it, but hopefully everyone can learn something about how others think.

Hey arch, put me down for a tentative /in, but please check with me before the game actually starts!
Personally I was hoping for a novel. Oh well.

That comes next, hopefully.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on November 30, 2017, 03:04:55 pm
his what!!?

The Oxford Dictionary has this to say about "Book":
Noun
"A written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers."

Yeah, I'm writing a book, got a publisher and everything! Political nonfiction. I suspect many people on these forums will disagree with parts of it, but hopefully everyone can learn something about how others think.

Hey arch, put me down for a tentative /in, but please check with me before the game actually starts!
Personally I was hoping for a novel. Oh well.

That comes next, hopefully.

It could probably be treated as a novel depending on your political leanings.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 01, 2017, 10:17:00 am
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 01, 2017, 12:04:06 pm
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Ganondorf the 1-shot Limited Vigilante has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 02, 2017, 11:42:00 am
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Luigi the Non-Consecutive Night Sidekick has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Swowl on December 02, 2017, 08:54:06 pm
Hey Archetype - first off, thanks for the set up, love Smash this is gonna be fun!
Can I inquire how many "bros" you intend to release into the set up?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 03, 2017, 03:45:29 am
Hey Archetype - first off, thanks for the set up, love Smash this is gonna be fun!
Can I inquire how many "bros" you intend to release into the set up?
All 26 :). Originally when designing the roles I was only going to do a few, but didn't want to leave anyone's favorite out. The gradual reveal is just for dramatic effect. Speaking of which

CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Roy the Motion Detector has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on December 04, 2017, 07:42:55 am
/tag

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 04, 2017, 02:15:48 pm
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Dr. Mario the Pill Vendor has joined the cast!

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 06, 2017, 03:52:57 pm
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Young Link the Jack of All Trades has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 06, 2017, 05:53:43 pm
/in I guess.  Mafia has been kind of meh for me lately, but I guess that is partially just a result of being very busy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Teproc on December 06, 2017, 05:58:04 pm
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 06, 2017, 07:30:14 pm
/in if there's room
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: chairs on December 07, 2017, 01:55:13 am
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 07, 2017, 05:51:09 pm
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Pichu the Weak Visitor has joined the cast!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 08, 2017, 12:25:39 am
What happens if Pichu is Evil?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Swowl on December 08, 2017, 03:17:25 am
are we gonna roll this or are we waiting for more?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 08, 2017, 08:02:48 am
/tagachu.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 08, 2017, 09:24:59 am
Making my list later today
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: faust on December 08, 2017, 10:28:56 am
Making my list later today
I think Arch said there are two more roles upcoming. I'll wait for that to happen.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 08, 2017, 05:41:45 pm
What happens if Pichu is Evil?
Nothing

are we gonna roll this or are we waiting for more?
I'll close signups soon-ish. Probably next Friday as that's when my final exams get done. I also want to confirm with Robz and by extension Eevee.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on December 08, 2017, 06:03:00 pm
What happens if Pichu is Evil?
Nothing

are we gonna roll this or are we waiting for more?
I'll close signups soon-ish. Probably next Friday as that's when my final exams get done. I also want to confirm with Robz and by extension Eevee.

Your definition of "soon-ish" differs from mine but it's all good. I can wait!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: Archetype on December 08, 2017, 07:15:26 pm
CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Mr. Game and Watch the Neighborizer has joined the cast!

CHALLENGER APPROACHING
Mewtwo the 2-shot Inverting Redirector has joined the cast!

All Characters have been revealed

In addition to their factional kill and factional chat, Evil players will also be given a factional 2-shot Oracle:
Quote
Twice during the game at night, one Evil player may ask the Master Hand or Crazy Hand a Yes/No question about the game's setup. Questions can only be about the game state as it were when the game started and never specify player names in the game. For example: "Is Archetype Sheik?" and "Has Sheik ever targeted Zelda?" are both illegal but "Are Sheik and Zelda in the game?" or "Is Sheik Vanilla?" are both legal.


Also, please put your hands together for the your co-mod Crazy Hand: iguanaiguana!

A few updates have been made to previous characters. Samus is now 2-shot and Donkey Kong and Sheik are now Compulsive. If you haven't submitted your character list or would like to submit an updated one, please do so soon.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee
Post by: O on December 09, 2017, 05:30:53 pm
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 09, 2017, 05:37:43 pm
Signups will be closed December 14th. Make sure you submit your character lists by then. The game will then begin that next Sunday or Monday
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Eevee on December 09, 2017, 10:06:02 pm
In (if there's room)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 09, 2017, 10:23:49 pm
In (if there's room)
Of course!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 09, 2017, 11:02:33 pm
Does Pill Vendor or Lightning Rod resolve first if both are used the same night?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 09, 2017, 11:04:41 pm
Does Pill Vendor or Lightning Rod resolve first if both are used the same night?

I haven't played with most of these roles before.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 10, 2017, 01:03:56 am
Does Pill Vendor or Lightning Rod resolve first if both are used the same night?

I haven't played with most of these roles before.
I'll put up a night action resolution for everything here pretty soon, but Lightning Rod would resolve first. But don't be afraid to ask questions, I know a few are a little non-standard.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: schadd on December 10, 2017, 11:47:08 am
out
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: faust on December 11, 2017, 04:07:02 am
Some random action resolution questions:

1. What happens when Ness targets Fox?
2. If Ness targets any Ascetic, will their action fail completely?
3. Does Sheik having performed a Ninja kill count for the purposes of Samus?
4. Does Sheik Ninja targeting Jigglypuff trigger the PGO?
5. Generally speaking, in which order do the various Redirectors resolve if conflicting?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 11, 2017, 12:43:42 pm
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 11, 2017, 10:25:07 pm
Some random action resolution questions:

1. What happens when Ness targets Fox?
2. If Ness targets any Ascetic, will their action fail completely?
3. Does Sheik having performed a Ninja kill count for the purposes of Samus?
4. Does Sheik Ninja targeting Jigglypuff trigger the PGO?
5. Generally speaking, in which order do the various Redirectors resolve if conflicting?
I just went ahead and posted the action resolution since I'll have to do it eventually. I'll still answer these questions, though.

1. Diverting will resolve before Bus Driving, so Ness will target whoever Fox chooses to Divert to. If that ends up being the same person as Ness' other target, nothing will happen.
2. Yes, both targets must be valid.
3. Hmmm, I am going to go ahead and say yes that Samus can detect the ninja kill - but only because scum already has a way around it with the encryptor.
4. No
5. See the action resolution
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: faust on December 12, 2017, 02:07:44 am
The posted action resolution chain does not account for Bodyguard's redirection.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 12, 2017, 03:39:13 am
The posted action resolution chain does not account for Bodyguard's redirection.
Knew I was forgetting one. It's fixed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 12, 2017, 08:17:40 pm
Depending on when the game starts, I may be VLA for the first couple days.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Eevee on December 13, 2017, 12:51:43 pm
I need to /out, sorry guys. To busy to put in a decent effort.

edit: apparently too busy to spell too correctly as well
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 14, 2017, 12:16:21 pm
I need to /out, sorry guys. To busy to put in a decent effort.

edit: apparently too busy to spell too correctly as well
:(


Depending on when the game starts, I may be VLA for the first couple days.
It'll likely start either Sunday or Monday.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: seanbean on December 15, 2017, 06:03:05 pm
/in
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Teproc on December 15, 2017, 07:35:53 pm
/in

With that username, you're just begging to get lynched on D1.

But welcome !
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee - Signups Close 12/14
Post by: Archetype on December 16, 2017, 02:55:23 am
/in

With that username, you're just begging to get lynched on D1.

But welcome !
To let everyone know, seanbean is someone I know IRL. He's a big Melee fan so I figured I'd invite him.

Signups Closed. The game will begin Sunday or Monday
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 17, 2017, 06:52:55 pm
The setup has been created and Personal QTs have been sent out. Please /confirm in them to verify receipt. The game will begin Monday at 7:00 PM as long as everyone has confirmed by that time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 17, 2017, 06:59:25 pm
To clarify with the player count increasing beyond the setups initial capacity, there are at least 3 Evil players. There are no "Traitor" or "Survivor" variants of any kind.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 18, 2017, 07:11:29 pm
14 fighters from universes all over are brought together by the Master Hand and Crazy Hand to fight for their amusement. There are some who are Good while others are Evil, but which character belongs to which side is a mystery. Only one thing is for certain: only one team can achieve victory.


Day 1 Start


Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (14): mcmcsalot, ashersky, Galzria, DatSwan, Robz888, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, faust, Joseph2302, gkrieg13, Teproc, chairs, IDontPlayThisGame, O
With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM (deadline extended two days due to Christmas).

Thread Unlocked
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 18, 2017, 07:59:01 pm
FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 18, 2017, 08:14:25 pm
I'm pretty sure it'll come up eventually and I'd rather get it over with now. I'm reasonably certain that there are only three Evil players (5+ seems absurd and 4 seems unlikely because 13 player games tend to have three scum and this is only 14 players). I think the only relevant part of not knowing the exact number of scum is that we don't know when it's MyLo/LyLo. I also don't think there's anything else to be gained from discussing this, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 18, 2017, 08:25:09 pm
FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.

Why is Ashersky not posting scummy?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2017, 10:02:10 pm
Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 18, 2017, 10:14:04 pm
Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

Robz, go finish your book!

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 18, 2017, 10:17:03 pm
Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

I'm always against it. But I'm always willing to listen to arguments for it. Occasionally it's actually beneficial.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 18, 2017, 10:20:52 pm
Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

I'm always against it. But I'm always willing to listen to arguments for it. Occasionally it's actually beneficial.

Agreed. I don't see how it helps more than it hurts here, but I'll listen to why someone thinks it's pro-town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 18, 2017, 10:41:29 pm
booooo massclaims boooooooo
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2017, 11:01:55 pm
Cool, we've elected to argue about it and then do it anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 18, 2017, 11:30:46 pm
FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.

Why is Ashersky not posting scummy?

He's actively preventing us from getting a read on him by his inaction.

Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

Like... maybe the solution is we don't massclaim? Or we discuss -what- we're going to massclaim?

IDK.

FWIW: If we're going to do this, I think we all claim how many heroes we listed first. Then we claim flavor name. Then we claim our lists.

I think that maximizes the opportunity for somebody to get caught in a lie.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 12:55:10 am
The good thing about this setup is that we can mass flavor claim, which limits scum's fakeclaim options without directly giving away our PRs.

What's definitely not worth it is some convoluted plan like chairs' one where we spend all of D1 with pointless claims that are not in any way alignment-indicative because list submission happened before alignment assingment...

So vote: chairs
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2017, 01:09:10 am
The good thing about this setup is that we can mass flavor claim, which limits scum's fakeclaim options without directly giving away our PRs.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Boxing in scum seems like it could be a potentially strong move.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 01:22:59 am
The good thing about this setup is that we can mass flavor claim, which limits scum's fakeclaim options without directly giving away our PRs.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Boxing in scum seems like it could be a potentially strong move.
I think I agree. Also, go finish your book!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on December 19, 2017, 01:43:29 am
I was going to make a political joke about Robz's book but it might've pissed him off and nobody wants anything to do with politics in a mafia game so nevermind.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 19, 2017, 02:11:53 am
My "convoluted plan" was just an idea on how we might be able to catch scum in lies about PRs.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 02:19:47 am
My "convoluted plan" was just an idea on how we might be able to catch scum in lies about PRs.
Yep, on an issue where scum has no inclination whatsoever to lie. The most likely thing to happen is for someone to mess up their claim and thus giving scum an easy mislynch target.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 19, 2017, 02:25:03 am
Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?
I'm the SK
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 19, 2017, 02:27:31 am
Vote: Robz as Obv!scum
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 19, 2017, 04:27:42 am
Actually Vote: gkrieg because mislynching him is fun
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 19, 2017, 05:09:10 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 05:15:38 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?
This is what it does:

- scum cannot switch claims among one another if it suits them
- scum can never directly counterclaim a PR
- scum cannot claim PR when they are about to be lynched in order to out another PR
- if scummy things happen (Roleblocking, Redirection etc.) and we find out, scum will have to own up to it. This strongly limits the amount of damage they can safely do with their PRs.

And, on the minus side:
- it is easier for scum to target PRs that would potentially be dangerous to them.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 05:18:05 am
@Archetype: Can you confirm that alignment has been assigned independently of which players received which flavor names?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 05:20:40 am
And another:

Can scum use both their Oracle shots in the same night?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 05:22:29 am
There's more relevant stuff... sorry about all the questions.

When will scum receive the answers from the Oracle?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 05:28:49 am
The more I think about it, the more I like a flavor claim. It makes everyone's night actions better (on both sides), which is good if we have many PRs, and if we don't have many... well I guess we'd better hope we don't have the ones scum is most worried about ? I guess it's kind of a balancing the game thing either way: if we got underpowered, scum will be killing VTs, otherwise they'll get a straight beeline to our best PRs ? But we get coordination...

I think I'm fine with flavor claim. Definitely not actual role claim though. Don't know about claiming lists and such, I guess it can go along with flavor claiming ? I suppose that's the only thing that might possibly catch scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 05:34:30 am
I think I'm fine with flavor claim. Definitely not actual role claim though. Don't know about claiming lists and such, I guess it can go along with flavor claiming ? I suppose that's the only thing that might possibly catch scum.
And how would that happen?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 05:39:16 am
I think I'm fine with flavor claim. Definitely not actual role claim though. Don't know about claiming lists and such, I guess it can go along with flavor claiming ? I suppose that's the only thing that might possibly catch scum.
And how would that happen?

Well, not if they tell the truth, obviously.

I guess claiming lists in and of itself doesn't make it harder for scum to lie. Maybe it makes it easier actually, if they claim last. So maybe we should stick to flavor ? And if someone spots an inconsistency we can have specific lists claims.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 06:55:13 am
I think I'm fine with flavor claim. Definitely not actual role claim though. Don't know about claiming lists and such, I guess it can go along with flavor claiming ? I suppose that's the only thing that might possibly catch scum.
And how would that happen?

Well, not if they tell the truth, obviously.

I guess claiming lists in and of itself doesn't make it harder for scum to lie. Maybe it makes it easier actually, if they claim last. So maybe we should stick to flavor ? And if someone spots an inconsistency we can have specific lists claims.
Yes, but what motivation does scum have to lie?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 08:02:43 am
I'm sure you can think of a few. I don't really see the point in outlining them here though. It's a risk for them, and telling the truth is certainly simpler, but scum lying is always a possibility worth considering.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 09:29:11 am
So Iím generally very anti any claim because I feel like the advantage it gives (forcing scum to not lie later) is not worth the advantage we lose (keeping town prs safe).

I get here that since claiming flavor doesnít guarantee the person is a pr itís a little better. But I still donít see the huge benefit. Do we really fear scum counterclaiming people or pretending to be a different role then they are. Is that really worth just telling mafia who might be deathproof a universal backup, a doctor, a supersaint, a roleblocker ect.

Iím still in favor of just trying to scum hunt traditionally and getting some advantage out of blocking a night kill, or killing scum via town prs.

Also as people said we bid on powers before alignment so itís not like in draft games where knowing what scum went for helps us. We literally are just giving scum all our possible pr info so in two days they canít lie.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 09:36:59 am
This is what it does:

- scum cannot switch claims among one another if it suits them
- scum can never directly counterclaim a PR
- scum cannot claim PR when they are about to be lynched in order to out another PR
- if scummy things happen (Roleblocking, Redirection etc.) and we find out, scum will have to own up to it. This strongly limits the amount of damage they can safely do with their PRs.

And, on the minus side:
- it is easier for scum to target PRs that would potentially be dangerous to them.

Your first point I donít see how that super helpful. Like scum can still switch claims now if they want (they could have daychat) and I donít see how scum switching claims here is super helpful to scum at all.
Points two and theee I get, no counter claim and no last minute claim, but I feel counterclaims are not the hardest thing to figure out and at worst itís a 1 for 1. As for claims before lynch thatís not a huge problem in standard mafia games, people can claim other peopleís roles accidentally, and there could be results that prove people wrong.
Your fourth point I had not thought of. I see the advantage to locking scum into not doing scummy things but it also prevents town from catching scum doing scummy things. No ability to catch scum lying if they canít lie.

I still stick with not wanting to massclaim
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 09:38:51 am
So Iím generally very anti any claim because I feel like the advantage it gives (forcing scum to not lie later) is not worth the advantage we lose (keeping town prs safe).

I get here that since claiming flavor doesnít guarantee the person is a pr itís a little better. But I still donít see the huge benefit. Do we really fear scum counterclaiming people or pretending to be a different role then they are. Is that really worth just telling mafia who might be deathproof a universal backup, a doctor, a supersaint, a roleblocker ect.
I mean yes it is. I might have a different opinion with different roles, but none of the roles in here is actually super amazing. Deathproof, Supersaint, Roleblocker are all largely anti-town roles anyway, or at least they are much better for scum than they are for town, so it's good to know who these folks are.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 09:42:18 am
I think you're underestimating the benefits to town PRs mcmc. It's hard to know given the closed nature of Arch's balancing, but I'm guessing town has more to do at night than scum does, and even the powers that are most useful for scum (like Roleblocker) are made awkward by a full flavor claim as faust said. Meanwhile, town protective roles have a better idea of how to target.

Scum still has ample opportunity to lie and possibly getting caught, btw.

PPE: Also agree with this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 09:49:15 am
Hmm okay I think I see what you guys are saying I guess I just have a  slightly different view on the roles (which I could be  wrong about)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 09:49:38 am
As far as scumhunting goes

vote: robz for bringing up massclaim in the way he did, satirical comments with an undertone of pushing us in a direction isnít his style.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 10:03:36 am
Maybe it is worth it to look at all possible roles to see which ones benefit from claiming.

1. [Mario] - (Novice Vanilla Cop) - Scum cannot block him. Redirection is also dangerous.
2. [Yoshi] - (Roleblocker) - Can effectively block the most anti-town potential role.
3. [Donkey Kong] - (Odd-Night Strong-willed Bodyguard) - Can save the strongest town PRs much more effectively.
4. [Link] - (Jack-Of-All-Trades) - 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Doctor, 1-shot Ascetic - Doctor gets better, Tracker cannot be blocked.
5. [Samus] - (Encrypting 2-shot Sensoring Detective) - Doesn't matter much here, but scum cannot block.
6. [Fox] - (2-shot Diverter) - Not sure town should use this, but it could help redirect a nightkill, and the odds are improved with claiming.
7. [Pikachu] - (1-shot Lightning Rod) - I guess knowing what roles could be in the game makes it easier to decide when to pull the trigger.
8. [Captain Falcon] - (Modified Flavor Cop) - Mostly rendered useless unless scum decide to fakeclaim.
9. [Ness] - (1-shot Bus Driver) - See Fox. Improved, if town decides to use it.
10. [Peach] - (Self-Watcher) - We can actually use this to confirm some players as "not doing anything else", which is pretty good. Otherwise would be very meh.
11. [Bowser] - (Supersaint) - That is mostly a super anti-town role and we should make extra sure we know who it is.
12. [Zelda] - (1-shot Commuter) - This is weaker if scum knows to avoid killing them.
13. [Sheik] - (Even-Night Ninja Doctor) - Doctoring will be more effective.
14. [Ice Climbers] - (1-shot Deathproof) - I think being lynchproof is worse for town than being bulletproof is good, so we should know this.
15. [Kirby] - (Universal Backup) - Well... depends.
16. [Marth] - (Tracker) - Cannot be blocked.
17. [Jigglypuff] - (1-shot Paranoid Gun Owner) - Town can avoid targeting, so can scum. This is more dangerous in scum's hands, so this is probably good overall.
18. [Falco] - (Ascetic) - We don't have to waste actions on them. Good.
19. [Ganondorf] -  (1-shot Limited Vigilante) - Well, they don't really get more information relevant to them.
20. [Luigi] - (Non-Consecutive Night Sidekick) - Same as above; this is a form of doctoring and will be better.
21. [Roy] - (Motion Detector) - We can effectively prevent scum non-targeting roles from preforming the nightkill.
22. [Dr. Mario] - (Pill Vendor) - Whoever receives the pill will know where it came from. Not sure how much of a difference that makes, but it's probably better as you'd want to target townies.
23. [Young Link] - (Jack-Of-All-Trades) - 1-shot Self-Watcher, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Bodyguard - RB and Bodyguard are more effective.
24. [Pichu] - (Weak Visitor) - Can announce target each day. If redirected, it may out the Redirector.
25. [Mr. Game and Watch] - (Neighborizer) - Can target worthwhile targets (investigative probably).
26. [Mewtwo] - (2-shot Inverting Redirector) - Having meses with scum's answers potentially. This could lead to all sorts of interesting interactions. Not really sure how it would play. It would arguably be bad for us if scum knew that Mewtwo wasn't in the game.

PPE: 3
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 10:14:35 am
I definitely had the wrong opinion about deathproof, you are right that lynchproof is much scarier than bulletproof I also agree with a lot of the benefits to all the redirection. The one thing I donít see is how fox gets better knowing peopleís roles because I just think it makes it more likely the doc dies as opposed to being able to doc claimed roles later but I do think a flavor claim is a net benefit at this point.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 19, 2017, 10:25:42 am
Here, I'll start even, so we can just get on with it.

I'm Captain Falcon.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2017, 10:35:11 am
Here, I'll start even, so we can just get on with it.

I'm Captain Falcon.
That is actually a good start. Now scum can't really fakeclaim and we don't have to worry endlessly about claiming order.

I am Sheik.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 10:39:14 am
I am Link.

Before you check: yes, Robz is in the game. Please don't lynch me Robz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 10:48:57 am
I am Mr. Game and Watch
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 19, 2017, 10:59:06 am
Hi all. Just getting here. vote: Joseph for trying to mislynch me. Massclaim seems fine, but I think it gives scum more information. If it is good, why donít we do this ever game?  Just claim some random PR at the beginning for everyone to lock scum into a fake claim?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 11:01:37 am
Hi all. Just getting here. vote: Joseph for trying to mislynch me. Massclaim seems fine, but I think it gives scum more information. If it is good, why donít we do this ever game?  Just claim some random PR at the beginning for everyone to lock scum into a fake claim?

The difference here is that flavor locks you into one power but doesnít guarantee you are a pr or vanilla.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 11:11:57 am
Hi all. Just getting here. vote: Joseph for trying to mislynch me. Massclaim seems fine, but I think it gives scum more information. If it is good, why donít we do this ever game?  Just claim some random PR at the beginning for everyone to lock scum into a fake claim?

Because that's not a comparable thing at all ? You could have multiple people claiming the same PR in the situation you're describing, among other things.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2017, 11:40:05 am
I'm Ice Climbers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 19, 2017, 11:41:10 am
I'm Ice Climbers.

Go write your book!

I'm Pichu
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 19, 2017, 12:34:11 pm
I'm Yoshi
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 01:25:03 pm
I know realize we may have rushed into this claim poorly due to the oracle power.

Mafia can now pick the two strongest town prís and ask ďis X vanilla?Ē

In fact they can ask any yes/no question about the setup and if worded correctly they could probably get even more info.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 01:25:45 pm
I know now realize we may have rushed into this claim poorly due to the oracle power.

Mafia can now pick the two strongest town prís and ask ďis X vanilla?Ē

In fact they can ask any yes/no question about the setup and if worded correctly they could probably get even more info.
FTFM
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 01:37:48 pm
I know now realize we may have rushed into this claim poorly due to the oracle power.

Mafia can now pick the two strongest town prís and ask ďis X vanilla?Ē

In fact they can ask any yes/no question about the setup and if worded correctly they could probably get even more info.
FTFM

It probably does make the Oracle thing a little stronger, yeah. I still think it's worth doing.

mcmc is townie, btw.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Archetype on December 19, 2017, 01:45:34 pm
@Archetype: Can you confirm that alignment has been assigned independently of which players received which flavor names?
Any character could be any alignment


Can scum use both their Oracle shots in the same night?
No. And they receive the results of their Oracle power at the end of the night that they used it in their QT
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 19, 2017, 01:47:58 pm
Hi all. Just getting here. vote: Joseph for trying to mislynch me. Massclaim seems fine, but I think it gives scum more information. If it is good, why donít we do this ever game?  Just claim some random PR at the beginning for everyone to lock scum into a fake claim?

Because that's not a comparable thing at all ? You could have multiple people claiming the same PR in the situation you're describing, among other things.

You're right.  I'm Mewtwo!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 02:02:10 pm
Hi all. Just getting here. vote: Joseph for trying to mislynch me. Massclaim seems fine, but I think it gives scum more information. If it is good, why donít we do this ever game?  Just claim some random PR at the beginning for everyone to lock scum into a fake claim?

Because that's not a comparable thing at all ? You could have multiple people claiming the same PR in the situation you're describing, among other things.

You're right.  I'm Mewtwo!

Well that helps.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 19, 2017, 03:22:14 pm
vote: idptg

Scumslip?  At any rate, vote-worthy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 19, 2017, 03:22:55 pm
unvote

Misread, never mind.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 19, 2017, 03:23:30 pm
I counterclaim momsalon.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 03:28:24 pm
I counterclaim momsalon.

Really? You sure you havenít mis-read your pm...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 03:30:53 pm
I counterclaim momsalon.

Really? You sure you havenít mis-read your pm...

I mean Iím guessing this is a joke/call back to mean girls mafia but Iíd love for you to be serious and going for some very strange mafia plan.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on December 19, 2017, 04:07:41 pm
I am Ganondorf.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 19, 2017, 04:12:44 pm
vote: idptg

Scumslip?  At any rate, vote-worthy.

If you're going to do this, you might as well explain what you mean.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2017, 04:22:26 pm
vote: idptg

Scumslip?  At any rate, vote-worthy.

If you're going to do this, you might as well explain what you mean.

Seeing as idp only has 2 posts Iím guessing itís the one about numbers of scum. Probably read something that he figured was worded from a scum perspective that he reread and realized was wrong.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 19, 2017, 04:52:33 pm
Vote Count 1.1

ashersky(1): chairs
chairs(1): faust
gkrieg13(1):Joseph2302
Robz888(1): mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (9): ashersky, Galzria, DatSwan, Robz888, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, Teproc, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2017, 04:57:02 pm
The problem with this exercise is that scum weren't potentially forced into early claiming. I know people don't like lists or orders, but even using the signup list would've been better than whoever/whenever.

If scum haven't yet claimed or are waiting then they know what's safe to fake claim as it gets down to them.

Say, for example, Dr. Mario is in the game and is scum. They see Mario hasn't been claimed so they claim him. Each night they can feed pills to their scummates with relative impunity. If somebody tracks them they can claim to have been copping. Faking cop results down the line isn't all that difficult.

With that said it's pretty much too late to consider that anyway, so Fox, reporting for duty General.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 19, 2017, 05:54:02 pm
The problem with this exercise is that scum weren't potentially forced into early claiming. I know people don't like lists or orders, but even using the signup list would've been better than whoever/whenever.

If scum haven't yet claimed or are waiting then they know what's safe to fake claim as it gets down to them.

Say, for example, Dr. Mario is in the game and is scum. They see Mario hasn't been claimed so they claim him. Each night they can feed pills to their scummates with relative impunity. If somebody tracks them they can claim to have been copping. Faking cop results down the line isn't all that difficult.

With that said it's pretty much too late to consider that anyway, so Fox, reporting for duty General.

Dangerous to do that with Falcon in the game. Am I vanilla? Am I the modified flavor cop that reveals all his results on death? Can they really afford to take that chance?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2017, 06:27:01 pm
The problem with this exercise is that scum weren't potentially forced into early claiming. I know people don't like lists or orders, but even using the signup list would've been better than whoever/whenever.

If scum haven't yet claimed or are waiting then they know what's safe to fake claim as it gets down to them.

Say, for example, Dr. Mario is in the game and is scum. They see Mario hasn't been claimed so they claim him. Each night they can feed pills to their scummates with relative impunity. If somebody tracks them they can claim to have been copping. Faking cop results down the line isn't all that difficult.

With that said it's pretty much too late to consider that anyway, so Fox, reporting for duty General.

Dangerous to do that with Falcon in the game. Am I vanilla? Am I the modified flavor cop that reveals all his results on death? Can they really afford to take that chance?

It was meant simply as an example, not an "only" possibility. I  originally was thinking in terms of scum having Vig but claiming something else, using it, and us having no easy way to confirm who had lied about their choice because they could just claim to be Vanilla later - but Vig has been claimed so that's ok.

My point was more that a late scum could choose which claim to go for, maximizing the potential for chaos. I didn't really look into which fake claims would be best for them and why - and it doesn't really matter. I'm just old man grumping that we didn't bother to minimize potential scum advantage. I don't think a little organization would've taken that much time out of our day.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 19, 2017, 06:35:08 pm
I am the yellow ratpikaóóchooooo
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 19, 2017, 07:25:50 pm
The problem with this exercise is that scum weren't potentially forced into early claiming. I know people don't like lists or orders, but even using the signup list would've been better than whoever/whenever.

If scum haven't yet claimed or are waiting then they know what's safe to fake claim as it gets down to them.

Say, for example, Dr. Mario is in the game and is scum. They see Mario hasn't been claimed so they claim him. Each night they can feed pills to their scummates with relative impunity. If somebody tracks them they can claim to have been copping. Faking cop results down the line isn't all that difficult.

With that said it's pretty much too late to consider that anyway, so Fox, reporting for duty General.

Dangerous to do that with Falcon in the game. Am I vanilla? Am I the modified flavor cop that reveals all his results on death? Can they really afford to take that chance?

It was meant simply as an example, not an "only" possibility. I  originally was thinking in terms of scum having Vig but claiming something else, using it, and us having no easy way to confirm who had lied about their choice because they could just claim to be Vanilla later - but Vig has been claimed so that's ok.

My point was more that a late scum could choose which claim to go for, maximizing the potential for chaos. I didn't really look into which fake claims would be best for them and why - and it doesn't really matter. I'm just old man grumping that we didn't bother to minimize potential scum advantage. I don't think a little organization would've taken that much time out of our day.

That's fair. I think for me personally I just saw the mass flavor name claim coming and was like "If we get this out of the way sooner, we have more to talk about during D1 than normal, which is cool, and I just want to move on with the game anyway".
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 19, 2017, 11:52:04 pm
Here is the list of claims so far. Listed in order of the time claimed:

Chairs - Cpt. Falcon
Faust - Sheik
Teproc - Link
MCMC - Mr Game and Watch
Robz - Ice Climbers
IDPTG - Pichu
Joseph - Yoshi
GK - Mewtwo
Andrew - Ganandorf
Galz - Fox
Swan - Pikachu

Not yet claimed:
Ash (or he has. I don't know if it was a joke, but he counter claimed MCMC, who claimed MRGnW)
O
SeanB
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: seanbean on December 19, 2017, 11:59:22 pm
I am Marth.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 12:07:48 am
kirbs
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 20, 2017, 12:18:21 am
Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 01:25:23 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2017, 01:29:37 am
Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 20, 2017, 01:36:28 am
Iím the real RB, Mcmc, Yuma will back me up.

bowser

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 20, 2017, 01:42:01 am
Iím the real RB, Mcmc, Yuma will back me up.

bowser

I should have guessed. That's basically the most ash power ever.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:07:04 am
@Archetype: Can you confirm that alignment has been assigned independently of which players received which flavor names?
Any character could be any alignment
That doesn't really answer my question by the way, and the evasivaness of it makes me think it is absolutely possible that Arch grouped people with scummier roles into the scum team.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:07:54 am
kirbs
You didn't even put up a fight! I am disappointed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:08:56 am
Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.
Yeah, that guy should really go back to writing his book instead of hanging out here placing bad votes.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:11:56 am
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 02:15:26 am
kirbs
You didn't even put up a fight! I am disappointed.

it looked like the time to put up a fight was 5 claims ago or so  :-\
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:26:12 am
We should note that there are 3 potential redirectors:

Mewtwo (gkrieg)
Fox (Galzria)
Pikachu (DatSwan)

We want to have Pichu's visiting announced each day. But gkrieg and Galzria can mess with that (also Pikachu, but we could probably figure that out). On the plus side, we have Marth and Link's 1-shot Tracker that could detect such a thing, so it would be dangerous for scum. We also have Yoshi who could block them.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 02:29:23 am
I am also kind of interested in how the bidding went, but I'm afraid that such discussion won't advance the game. Looking forward to seeing this after the game.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 04:01:28 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.

1) i find it extremely unlikely there is no Samus in the game
2) if it is true .. def could be skum fake claim knowing they donít have dc so samus isnít in play
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 04:12:48 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.

1) i find it extremely unlikely there is no Samus in the game
2) if it is true .. def could be skum fake claim knowing they donít have dc so samus isnít in play
Why would Samus lie?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 04:21:48 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.

1) i find it extremely unlikely there is no Samus in the game
2) if it is true .. def could be skum fake claim knowing they donít have dc so samus isnít in play
Why would Samus lie?


... see point 2.
Why would you now think this is a plausible idea?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 04:26:49 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.

1) i find it extremely unlikely there is no Samus in the game
2) if it is true .. def could be skum fake claim knowing they donít have dc so samus isnít in play
Why would Samus lie?


... see point 2.
Why would you now think this is a plausible idea?
I am confused. What is your conclusion?

Fake claims for scum, especially obvious ones like this, are dangerous when we could have a flavor cop. Of course chairs could be scum too.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 04:32:50 am
So, pending on hearing from ash, we know that mafia has no daychat? That is reassuring.

People I definitely want to leave alive today based on this are gkrieg and seanbean.

1) i find it extremely unlikely there is no Samus in the game
2) if it is true .. def could be skum fake claim knowing they donít have dc so samus isnít in play
Why would Samus lie?


... see point 2.
Why would you now think this is a plausible idea?
I am confused. What is your conclusion?

Fake claims for scum, especially obvious ones like this, are dangerous when we could have a flavor cop. Of course chairs could be scum too.

You are not confused .
Iím not saying it is a thing - or even very likely - Iím just saying that with the lack of claim order it is not a far fedtched idea (especially bc if it is true they do have dc) that they could of been towards the back of claim and be doing it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 04:46:08 am
What is the 'it' they could be doing?!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 04:49:18 am
I think I am definitely confused. Please don't tell me whether I'm confused or not, I think I am the best judge of that (... or am I? Maybe I am just confused...)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 20, 2017, 06:57:35 am
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 07:45:04 am
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?
That is true, but did he actually say that he had Samus in his list?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 07:46:47 am
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?

I actually donít think thatís what Swan meant by his wording. I think he just mean A) Samus is a strong power and heís surprised no one took it, B) in the event no one took it scum knows that because they donít have day chat and therefor would be able to fake claim it safely. Final conclusion very surprised Saumus hasnít been claimed (real or fake)

I agree with faust however that due to possibility of a rolecop as well as just the fact that we chose roles before alignment itís unlikely scum has fake claimed at all.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 07:48:41 am
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?

I actually donít think thatís what Swan meant by his wording. I think he just mean A) Samus is a strong power and heís surprised no one took it, B) in the event no one took it scum knows that because they donít have day chat and therefor would be able to fake claim it safely. Final conclusion very surprised Saumus hasnít been claimed (real or fake)

I agree with faust however that due to possibility of a rolecop as well as just the fact that we chose roles before alignment itís unlikely scum has fake claimed at all.
How would scum know that noone took it? It would be entriely possible that someone got Samus, but they are vanilla...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 07:51:12 am
And yes while I agree we donít need to discuss lists at this time everyone should go through your list. If you did not get your first choice, someone else has to have gotten that character.

Ppe faust: right so never mind not a safe fake claim for scum. I do think thatís what datswan meant however.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 20, 2017, 08:51:11 am
Right, well if that's what DatSwan meant, I don't think that's worth discussing all that much. I don't agree that it's particularly surprising no one got it.

Let's do a vote:ash. Under the radar!ash is scum!ash, generally.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 08:53:43 am
Right, well if that's what DatSwan meant, I don't think that's worth discussing all that much. I don't agree that it's particularly surprising no one got it.

Let's do a vote:ash. Under the radar!ash is scum!ash, generally.

Is this under the radar!ash?

I counterclaim momsalon.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 20, 2017, 09:02:28 am
That was clearly a joke for anyone familiar with Mean Girls Mafia, which is, like, half the people in this game ? I expected ash to have something to say about the flavor claim in some way, shape, or form, but he didn't.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 09:43:11 am
Iíll vote: ash seemed the joke could only end in unnecessary info being slipped and not in a way that would benefit town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 09:49:20 am
So I think not organizing the claim list was good, it made people react geniunly and allowed us to have someone like ash appear, chose not to claim, wait for everyone to claim, then claim a role discourages anyone from hammering him. Quite scummy actually.

Ash what was your list? Donít see harm in it and it can potentially prove your not a scummy liar.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 10:24:00 am
@Archetype: Can you confirm that alignment has been assigned independently of which players received which flavor names?
Any character could be any alignment
That doesn't really answer my question by the way, and the evasivaness of it makes me think it is absolutely possible that Arch grouped people with scummier roles into the scum team.

I agree the evasiveness means alignment was not rolled 100% random and then pr/vanilla was decided based on balance. I guess I can ask that specifically and see if arch is willing to answer more directly.

Was allignment rolled 100% random, and then pr/vanilla balancing decided? Or were pr/vanilla decided along with alignment to create an enjoyable balanced game? Iím absolutely fine if you donít want to answer.

That being said I donít think even if prs were assigned at the same time as deciding allignment that that means scummy roles went to scum it just means the power distribution is even.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 10:26:36 am
My last statement aside, I do find it interesting my current scum reads are a supersaint and 1-Shot deathproof and my current town reads are a doctor and joat with doctor.. extra kill power for scum, extra saving for town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 10:37:45 am
So I think not organizing the claim list was good, it made people react geniunly and allowed us to have someone like ash appear, chose not to claim, wait for everyone to claim, then claim a role discourages anyone from hammering him. Quite scummy actually.

Ash what was your list? Donít see harm in it and it can potentially prove your not a scummy liar.
I support that question, but I don't think ash is particularly scummy for the way he handled the claim.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 10:55:24 am
Some Pichu interactions:
Mewtwo can kill pichu anytime if they are mafia and can make it look like a townie (pichu's orig target) is mafia. They can also clear a mafia target by making pichu target a townie if his original target is mafia.
If Fox is mafia fox can redirect pichu to town if pichu targets fox making it look like he is cleared.
If pikachu is mafia and pichu is targeting a town player, pikachu can make it look like a townie (pichu's orig target) is mafia. However this would cause pichu to be the only death because mafia would either have to chose to no kill or kill/get doctered.

Overall this is pretty good, Mewtwo is the only one that can really screw with our Pichu copping if we do it intelligently. So if we can track mewtwo we can be confident in our copping. Obviously we are going to want to be setting up a decent amount of night actions and we wont necessarily know if we are doing any of them until a couple days later as people die/reveal if they are a pr. For example I don't think we need pichu/mewtwo/marth to claim if they are a pr or not until something happens like pichu dieing and even then we should view the circumstances before jumping to claims.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 11:00:38 am
Just realized faust gave a summary of exactly what I said about pichu, I think the detail helps but I did miss that yoshi if mafia can block pichu making it seem like someone is town if pichu targets mafia. Much worse that there are two people able to affect the pichu on any given night.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 20, 2017, 12:11:45 pm
So I think not organizing the claim list was good, it made people react geniunly and allowed us to have someone like ash appear, chose not to claim, wait for everyone to claim, then claim a role discourages anyone from hammering him. Quite scummy actually.

Ash what was your list? Donít see harm in it and it can potentially prove your not a scummy liar.

Iíve asked Arch for it.  I donít keep outbox messages.  I know bowser was #1 and I had three names on the list.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 20, 2017, 12:15:09 pm
As for activity, super busy this week, more time over the holiday break.

Iím glad we claimed.  I think it served less of a purpose than any of you think, though.

Any competent scum doesnít screw up, and incompetent scum will be caught anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 20, 2017, 12:15:57 pm
Also, Iím just super bitter about mafia in general since I lost a lot of time and effort on Falling Skies setup via the QT fiasco.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 12:28:51 pm
Any competent scum doesnít screw up, and incompetent scum will be caught anyway.
Well it was never about scum screwing up anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2017, 12:29:11 pm
Ash,

Archetype included my list in my QT on my opening post with my receiving Fox. Did he not do the same for you/everyone?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 12:54:52 pm
Ash,

Archetype included my list in my QT on my opening post with my receiving Fox. Did he not do the same for you/everyone?

Same for me.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 20, 2017, 12:57:27 pm
Ash,

Archetype included my list in my QT on my opening post with my receiving Fox. Did he not do the same for you/everyone?

Same for me.

Same.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 20, 2017, 12:58:10 pm
So he did.

Samus and Kirby were 2 and 3.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2017, 01:11:17 pm
Actually, for everyone:

For those who received a pick lower than your #1 choice, you know that all characters ranked above your choice are present and in the game. If anybody knows that there is a character present that has NOT been claimed, please speak up.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 02:17:55 pm
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?

I actually donít think thatís what Swan meant by his wording. I think he just mean A) Samus is a strong power and heís surprised no one took it, B) in the event no one took it scum knows that because they donít have day chat and therefor would be able to fake claim it safely. Final conclusion very surprised Saumus hasnít been claimed (real or fake)

I agree with faust however that due to possibility of a rolecop as well as just the fact that we chose roles before alignment itís unlikely scum has fake claimed at all.

this
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 02:18:29 pm
I also received my list along with my role. However, they were in separate messages if that helps you find it Ash.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on December 20, 2017, 02:59:40 pm
Hmmm....

I wasn't in mean girls but I'm going to guess that it's not a joke but it's not a serious counterclaim either. Not surprised, really.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 20, 2017, 03:35:40 pm
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?

I actually donít think thatís what Swan meant by his wording. I think he just mean A) Samus is a strong power and heís surprised no one took it, B) in the event no one took it scum knows that because they donít have day chat and therefor would be able to fake claim it safely. Final conclusion very surprised Saumus hasnít been claimed (real or fake)

I agree with faust however that due to possibility of a rolecop as well as just the fact that we chose roles before alignment itís unlikely scum has fake claimed at all.
How would scum know that noone took it? It would be entriely possible that someone got Samus, but they are vanilla...

SO yes there is that to factor in. But if they took it and are VT there is no reason to consider any of this.
I think we have beaten this one to death. If you have something else go ahead, but i do see your point regarding its risk.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 20, 2017, 03:44:48 pm
I also received my list along with my role. However, they were in separate messages if that helps you find it Ash.
Same for me
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 20, 2017, 03:45:22 pm
Actually, for everyone:

For those who received a pick lower than your #1 choice, you know that all characters ranked above your choice are present and in the game. If anybody knows that there is a character present that has NOT been claimed, please speak up.
I do not
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2017, 04:12:01 pm
Can we not talk about things that will not surprise anyone? Like, if you have something that brings new info, please share it, but otherwise find another way to contribute.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 04:13:52 pm
Hmm seems like weíre getting into the ďresponsed to all technical questions but not make comments about alignmentĒ stage.

Andrew do you see that ash has since claimed his actual role and yes it was a joke, however what does this make you feel about ashís alignment?

Ppe: faust feeling the same way as me
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 04:21:33 pm
Seanbean, pick one person at random, reread all their posts, let me know what you think about their alignment (hasnít posted anything alignment indicative is fine).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 04:22:51 pm
Robz has enoug good influences in his life, stop writing your book and accost Galzria or something.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 04:48:02 pm
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 04:51:11 pm
O you initially were against the massclaim and then were somewhat forced into by mass compliance who of the people starting and participating in do you find the scummiest (for whatever reason you want, manipulative, opportunistic, ect.)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 04:56:07 pm
O you initially were against the massclaim and then were somewhat forced into by mass compliance who of the people starting and participating in do you find the scummiest (for whatever reason you want, manipulative, opportunistic, ect.)

I got nothing. There wasn't even any manipulation, people just all did it without much comment.


Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 20, 2017, 04:59:28 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 05:04:37 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 05:05:32 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 20, 2017, 05:12:49 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 20, 2017, 05:15:14 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

Yes sorry.  It is something he does as town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 20, 2017, 05:16:34 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.

I'm really good at reading ash, and read the point that people were getting on his case, and was putting in my opinion of the situation.  I'm trying to get into the game here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 05:21:40 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.

it definitely doesn't look like gkrieg is putting lots effort into making great arguments

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 05:22:24 pm
i think we might all be scum if thats our metric tho

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 20, 2017, 05:30:03 pm
Can we not talk about things that will not surprise anyone? Like, if you have something that brings new info, please share it, but otherwise find another way to contribute.
Me not helping at all D1 is my town meta
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 20, 2017, 05:30:42 pm
i think we might all be scum if thats our metric tho
You solved the game. It's actually a BM game where we're all scum!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 20, 2017, 05:33:01 pm
i think we might all be scum if thats our metric tho
You solved the game. It's actually a BM game where we're all scum!

I'm actually the jester thanks
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 20, 2017, 07:41:41 pm
Vote Count 1.2

ashersky(4): chairs, Robz888, Teproc, mcmcsalot
chairs(1): faust
gkrieg13(1):Joseph2302
Joseph2302(1): gkrieg13

Not Voting ( 8 ): ashersky, Galzria, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on December 20, 2017, 09:29:41 pm
tag
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 20, 2017, 11:42:33 pm
I actually think ash is town here.

vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 01:31:56 am
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?

I know why, but will let Galz answer for himself.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 01:34:35 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?

Did anyone else notice this when he posted it?

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 01:41:27 am
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?

I know why, but will let Galz answer for himself.

Because there is one person that can, without any shadow of a doubt, confirm mcmc's claim - and that person is, I believe, you.

That doesn't make you town. Hell, you two could be scum together with day chat now. But for the purposes of Robz vote and what we know at this time, I think you were breadcrumbing that Mcmc Neighborized you N0.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 01:51:50 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 21, 2017, 03:38:03 am
Oh, that's.... particularly neat.

unvote
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:17:30 am
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?

I know why, but will let Galz answer for himself.

Because there is one person that *possibly* can, without any shadow of a doubt, confirm mcmc's claim - and that person is, I believe, you.

That doesn't make you town. Hell, you two could be scum together with day chat now. But for the purposes of Robz vote and what we know at this time, I think you were breadcrumbing that Mcmc Neighborized you N0.

Modified phrasing in bold. Mcmc could be Vanilla.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 21, 2017, 04:18:23 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?

Did anyone else notice this when he posted it?

I stand by it.
I think that because flavor flips anyways this was not a wise choice to do so early. Alignment is given after picks, so we can't use that. Flavor flips on death, so we don't lose out on anything by waiting (skum lying will still be caught on those flips). Faust did make a good point that the set up gives very little room for Skum to maneuver, so the likelihood of catching a fake claim is low (to happen at all, that is to say). And adddiiitiooonnnllyyyyy, if the oracle shots can actually be used to verify a VT vs PR character we painted targets.
The upside of doing it today is the same upside as doing when "we need to" imo.

It is too late now, and I cooperated with the claim because everyone did it and I am not going to sit there and refuse to contribute.

What is it that you find interesting about this point?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 21, 2017, 04:24:56 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:57:34 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

At most you could claim Vanilla or Roleblocker - and neither says anything about your alignment.

Why so jumpy? Also, AtE is a scum trait.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 05:42:38 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

I am unafraid! You already claimed:

I'm the SK
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 07:48:59 am
I actually think ash is town here.

vote: mcmc

So clearly you have come to a different conclusion then me but youíre only going to get half credit unless you show your work. Curious why you think ash is town and why that makes me scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 07:52:50 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?

Did anyone else notice this when he posted it?
Yep noticed that he mistook all characters for being Pokťmon, makes sense that he is pickachu. Also I get his point that knowing what roles people could be isnít alignment indicative but it locks scum into following suit with what they have claimed. Also we traded some increased danger to our potential prís for some increased ability to coordinate.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 07:59:45 am
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?

I know why, but will let Galz answer for himself.

Because there is one person that can, without any shadow of a doubt, confirm mcmc's claim - and that person is, I believe, you.

That doesn't make you town. Hell, you two could be scum together with day chat now. But for the purposes of Robz vote and what we know at this time, I think you were breadcrumbing that Mcmc Neighborized you N0.
You keep saying ďyouĒ in response to me and ash when I believe the you means robz but I understand what your saying.

Still doesnít answer why that makes robz vote for ash bad. If I am a neighborizer I donít think itís crazy to assume I would neighborize robz night 0 regardless so that all makes sense. But if that is the case at the time robz would be voting for ash for knowingly lying about his claim, wouldnít that in fact be the best vote?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 08:02:00 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

At most you could claim Vanilla or Roleblocker - and neither says anything about your alignment.

Why so jumpy? Also, AtE is a scum trait.

Yea super super scummy on Josephís part. That felt more like a threat than a ďit will clear meĒ sorta claim.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 21, 2017, 08:05:55 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

At most you could claim Vanilla or Roleblocker - and neither says anything about your alignment.

Why so jumpy? Also, AtE is a scum trait.

Yea super super scummy on Josephís part. That felt more like a threat than a ďit will clear meĒ sorta claim.
Clearly you haven't played with me enough.
If I'm scum, I'm usually quiet and hiding most the game.
If I'm town, I spend D1 messing around like I am now
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 21, 2017, 08:06:15 am
Claim is imminent.....
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 08:46:07 am
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

At most you could claim Vanilla or Roleblocker - and neither says anything about your alignment.

Why so jumpy? Also, AtE is a scum trait.

Yea super super scummy on Josephís part. That felt more like a threat than a ďit will clear meĒ sorta claim.
Clearly you haven't played with me enough.
If I'm scum, I'm usually quiet and hiding most the game.
If I'm town,
I spend D1 messing around like I am now
FTFY
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 09:09:22 am
We have good activity here, but we need everyone contributing... espcially as long as Christmas isn't there yet.

Request prods on Idplay and seanbean
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 09:11:57 am
I think that's townie from Joseph ? Not sure.

I do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 09:23:17 am
II do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.

Is there something about mcmc other than activity level that makes you think he's townie?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 21, 2017, 09:26:14 am
We have good activity here, but we need everyone contributing... espcially as long as Christmas isn't there yet.

Request prods on Idplay and seanbean

I'm here. Just been a bit busy. I'll have something more to post soon. Anything you're particularly interested in hearing?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 09:46:45 am
All to early post count to mean much but I had the time and it includes a subtraction of everyoneís pre-game posts so late this can be referenced easily to get accurate numbers:

mcmcsalot 34-1=33
faust 46-13=33
Teproc 15-3=12
Galzria 14-3=11
Joseph2302 12-1=11
ashersky 11-1=10
DatSwan 13-3=10
chairs 9-1=8
O 9-1=8
Robz888 10-3=7
gkrieg13 7-2=5
IDontPlayThisGame 9-5=4
AndrewisFTTW 6-3=3
seanbean 2-1=1
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 21, 2017, 09:47:41 am
I don't think ashersky's claim is indicative of much. I think Joseph is being ridiculous threatening to claim at L-5 as I don't see how it helps town. I don't have much to say about faust/Galz/gkrieg/mcmc as I think I read them even more poorly than I do everyone else.

I don't like all the redirection going on. If scum has either Mewtwo or Fox and is confident Mewtwo/Fox won't be Roleblocked, they could do some fancy stuff with PRs/the NK. Speaking of which, do we want to claim what everyone will do tonight if they are a PR ŗ la Weak Neighborizer in M110? It didn't go very well there since everyone picked faust but I don't know how it would turn out here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 09:54:28 am
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.

I'm really good at reading ash, and read the point that people were getting on his case, and was putting in my opinion of the situation.  I'm trying to get into the game here.

So actually looking at gkriegs defense of himself here I think he looks pretty scummy. He offers a paper defense of ash which Iíve shown is wrong, ash wasnít ďactively trying to figure out alignmentsĒ at the time, and then gkrieg says ďIím really good at reading ashĒ thatís not any more convincing of a defense and the added ďIím trying to get into the game hereĒ is a bit attitudy for gkrieg, added scum points for that. Add in his low post count and threatening power.

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 21, 2017, 10:43:36 am
Crazy Hand Vote Count 1.3

ashersky(2):  Robz888, Teproc
gkrieg13(2):Joseph2302, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(2): gkrieg13, Faust
Not Voting ( 8 ): ashersky, Galzria, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, O, chairs

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.

Request prods on Idplay and seanbean

These players are not eligible for a prod at this time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 11:01:41 am
II do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.

Is there something about mcmc other than activity level that makes you think he's townie?

Yes. For mcmc, being this active early and this productive and trying to get the game moving is a town tell, I think. He doesn't always do it as town, but I don't think he ever does it this convincingly as scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 11:12:55 am
Working on some pr stuff. where does the joatís 1-Shot ascetic go in the resolution chain and is it targetable on someone or only self targeted?

This matters for the only pro use of lightning rod I can see.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 11:38:48 am
So in reference to idpís question about directing powers I have thought about the best uses of and suggestions for powers but I want more people to weigh in on my gkrieg case or make a case of their own before throwing us into non-alignment indicative pr talk.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 11:57:37 am
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.

I'm really good at reading ash, and read the point that people were getting on his case, and was putting in my opinion of the situation.  I'm trying to get into the game here.

So actually looking at gkriegs defense of himself here I think he looks pretty scummy. He offers a paper defense of ash which Iíve shown is wrong, ash wasnít ďactively trying to figure out alignmentsĒ at the time, and then gkrieg says ďIím really good at reading ashĒ thatís not any more convincing of a defense and the added ďIím trying to get into the game hereĒ is a bit attitudy for gkrieg, added scum points for that. Add in his low post count and threatening power.

vote: gkrieg

I would say that noticing scumslips counts as "actively trying to figure out alignments".  I am really good at reading ash.  I consistently push for his lynch when he is scum and defend him when he is town.  He is the player I feel like I can read best. 

I don't get why me having attitude is scummy from me. I had just done a bunch of weeding and wasn't in the best mood, but it certainly isn't scummy.  I would argue that I have more "attitude" as town.  Post count also isn't indicative of alignment for me, and the power I have is also not indicative of alignment either.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 11:58:46 am
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?

Did anyone else notice this when he posted it?

I'm guessing you are pointing out that he said pokemon instead of character?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 12:00:27 pm
since the name of your pokemon is not absolutely correlated to you having that PR, I think there may be some merit in a flavor claim.
Thing is since you get to bid prior to knowing your alignment... does the claim actually help us all that much?

Did anyone else notice this when he posted it?
Yep noticed that he mistook all characters for being Pokťmon, makes sense that he is pickachu. Also I get his point that knowing what roles people could be isnít alignment indicative but it locks scum into following suit with what they have claimed. Also we traded some increased danger to our potential prís for some increased ability to coordinate.

I think coordinating is a bad idea for most of the PRs.  The claim did help me potentially.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 12:01:51 pm
I'm still voting chairs, that should not be. Vote: Joseph

I feel like I already did this.
I wouldn't recommend this. If another person votes for me, I'll claim

At most you could claim Vanilla or Roleblocker - and neither says anything about your alignment.

Why so jumpy? Also, AtE is a scum trait.

Yea super super scummy on Josephís part. That felt more like a threat than a ďit will clear meĒ sorta claim.
Clearly you haven't played with me enough.
If I'm scum, I'm usually quiet and hiding most the game.
If I'm town, I spend D1 messing around like I am now

I would say your scum play matches your town play pretty well, and neither of them are particularly helpful.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 12:02:49 pm
We have good activity here, but we need everyone contributing... espcially as long as Christmas isn't there yet.

Request prods on Idplay and seanbean

This kind of post is a little scummy from faust.  Seems a little fake, considering he hasn't had much of a presence as I remember.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 12:10:07 pm
We have good activity here, but we need everyone contributing... espcially as long as Christmas isn't there yet.

Request prods on Idplay and seanbean

This kind of post is a little scummy from faust.  Seems a little fake, considering he hasn't had much of a presence as I remember.

He is tied with me for more that 3 times as much content than anyone else...

Also prodding people is absolutely a town!faust move.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 12:37:00 pm
Request prods on Idplay and seanbean

These players are not eligible for a prod at this time.
Yuck 48 hours prod rules :(
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 12:39:36 pm
This is townie ash.  He is actually trying to figure out peoples' alignments.  Actively looking for scumslips is not something he does as town.

This is a contradiction, you say you think he is town, then you say actively looking for scumslips (which ash has already done this game) is not something he does as town.

i think he typo'd all over the place

I am almost positive he is  trying to say ďlooking for scumslips is not something ash does as scumĒ but said town instead. Thatís actually a little more than I typo though add in the fact that the original post is a bit of a paper defense, ďash is actually trying to figure out allignmentsĒ. Ashís only post about anyoneís allignment is ďidp scumslippedĒ followed by ďmisread never mindĒ. Never said what that was that he misread and hasnít made any other posts about alignment.

I think itís very possible scum!gkrieg is trying to put together a defense of town!ash for towncred, doesnít put much thought into it, gives a bad defense and slips up his woring because he knows ash is town.

I'm really good at reading ash, and read the point that people were getting on his case, and was putting in my opinion of the situation.  I'm trying to get into the game here.

So actually looking at gkriegs defense of himself here I think he looks pretty scummy. He offers a paper defense of ash which Iíve shown is wrong, ash wasnít ďactively trying to figure out alignmentsĒ at the time, and then gkrieg says ďIím really good at reading ashĒ thatís not any more convincing of a defense and the added ďIím trying to get into the game hereĒ is a bit attitudy for gkrieg, added scum points for that. Add in his low post count and threatening power.

vote: gkrieg
The "I'm really good at reading ash" is a bit more swagger than I would expect from scum!gkrieg here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 12:45:28 pm
II do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.

Is there something about mcmc other than activity level that makes you think he's townie?

Yes. For mcmc, being this active early and this productive and trying to get the game moving is a town tell, I think. He doesn't always do it as town, but I don't think he ever does it this convincingly as scum.

This strikes me as true. I don't know if he's *incapable* of doing it as scum, though.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 01:25:03 pm
I also think I'm good at reading ash, and I think he's scum !

I am, however, not good at reading gkrieg.

@Robz. Sure. Might you by any chance have anything more to say before you get back to writing your book ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 01:25:44 pm
Oh, and faust definitely prods people as scum too.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 21, 2017, 01:34:45 pm
So I was trying to give the newbie a pass, but one post? Even I do better than that on D1.

vote: seanbean.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 01:46:42 pm
So I was trying to give the newbie a pass, but one post? Even I do better than that on D1.

vote: seanbean.

Why does a lack of posting make him scum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 02:23:09 pm
I also think I'm good at reading ash, and I think he's scum !

I am, however, not good at reading gkrieg.

@Robz. Sure. Might you by any chance have anything more to say before you get back to writing your book ?

I have a few other reads I will share eventually, but they are currently weak and based on things certain players are doing, and I think I'd rather wait and see if these players continue engaging in these behaviors (I poison the well if I say what I think now).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 02:23:31 pm
So I was trying to give the newbie a pass, but one post? Even I do better than that on D1.

vote: seanbean.

Why does a lack of posting make him scum?

Oh hai galz, while your asking questions want to answer mine about why robz vote on ash was bad given what you thought about why robz was making the vote?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 21, 2017, 02:33:37 pm
So I was trying to give the newbie a pass, but one post? Even I do better than that on D1.

vote: seanbean.

Why does a lack of posting make him scum?

Broski, this is Day ONE.

Everything makes everybody scum for any reason or no reason at all.

But low-posting is a good reason to vote somebody on D1, because moar posts mean moar chances to slip up for scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 02:45:29 pm
Time for some Voltaire style all too early POE list

Wonít lynch: faust, Idp
Donít want to lynch: teproc, datswan, Chairs
Are you playing: O, seanbean, andrew
Would lynch: Joseph, galz, ash
Want to lynch: robz, gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:00:49 pm
So I was trying to give the newbie a pass, but one post? Even I do better than that on D1.

vote: seanbean.

Why does a lack of posting make him scum?

Oh hai galz, while your asking questions want to answer mine about why robz vote on ash was bad given what you thought about why robz was making the vote?

No
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:04:10 pm
Never mind Iíll do it.

Vote: Ash for obvious reasons.

Bad votes are bad for obvious reasons.

Galz why is robz vote for ash bad?

I know why, but will let Galz answer for himself.

Because there is one person that can, without any shadow of a doubt, confirm mcmc's claim - and that person is, I believe, you.

That doesn't make you town. Hell, you two could be scum together with day chat now. But for the purposes of Robz vote and what we know at this time, I think you were breadcrumbing that Mcmc Neighborized you N0.
You keep saying ďyouĒ in response to me and ash when I believe the you means robz but I understand what your saying.

Still doesnít answer why that makes robz vote for ash bad. If I am a neighborizer I donít think itís crazy to assume I would neighborize robz night 0 regardless so that all makes sense. But if that is the case at the time robz would be voting for ash for knowingly lying about his claim, wouldnít that in fact be the best vote?

Or, you know, maybe the "you" was in response to the person I quoted.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:05:40 pm
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:57:40 pm
Actually Vote: gkrieg because mislynching him is fun

Why is Gkrieg a mislynch?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:57:52 pm
FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.

Why is Ashersky not posting scummy?

He's actively preventing us from getting a read on him by his inaction.

Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

Like... maybe the solution is we don't massclaim? Or we discuss -what- we're going to massclaim?

IDK.

FWIW: If we're going to do this, I think we all claim how many heroes we listed first. Then we claim flavor name. Then we claim our lists.

I think that maximizes the opportunity for somebody to get caught in a lie.

Here, I'll start even, so we can just get on with it.

I'm Captain Falcon.

No posts from you between these. Why the sudden and drastic change in opinion about how we should claim?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:58:04 pm
Here is the list of claims so far. Listed in order of the time claimed:

Chairs - Cpt. Falcon
Faust - Sheik
Teproc - Link
MCMC - Mr Game and Watch
Robz - Ice Climbers
IDPTG - Pichu
Joseph - Yoshi
GK - Mewtwo
Andrew - Ganandorf
Galz - Fox
Swan - Pikachu
SeanB - Marth
O - Kirby
Ash - Bowser
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:58:13 pm
Iím the real RB, Mcmc, Yuma will back me up.

bowser

Last claim. Convenient claim. Good way to avoid being the lynch. If you're town then scum will never hammer you and town absolutely shouldn't do so. If you're scum then scum will NEVER hammer you, and town probably should - but it would need to be 100%.

Town Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 0

Scum Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 1

Further - If you're Mafia then you only have to worry about a potential SK or (if you're Vanilla) Andrew (If he's town himself and has the Vig power). If you're town then you have as much to worry about at night as anybody.

For the record, you could be Bowser. You could also be:
Mario
Donkey Kong
Samus
Ness
Peach
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Roy
Dr. Mario
Young Link

Some of those are trackable and verifiable. Others less so.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:58:21 pm
We should note that there are 3 potential redirectors:

Mewtwo (gkrieg)
Fox (Galzria)
Pikachu (DatSwan)

We want to have Pichu's visiting announced each day. But gkrieg and Galzria can mess with that (also Pikachu, but we could probably figure that out). On the plus side, we have Marth and Link's 1-shot Tracker that could detect such a thing, so it would be dangerous for scum. We also have Yoshi who could block them.

In regards to me, this is only accurate if Pichu were to target me directly.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:58:28 pm
So he did.

Samus and Kirby were 2 and 3.

Why not Jigglypuff?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 03:58:34 pm
Townie:
Gkrieg, Mcmc

Neutral:
Andrew, O, SeanB, Robz, IDP, Faust

Scummy:
DatSwan, Teproc, Chairs, Ash, Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:00:58 pm
scummy: you all
townie: me

quality content contribution from O strikes again
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 04:03:14 pm
Galz Iím curious why you find gkrieg townie, I was voting and pursuing an ash lynch for the exact reason you just mentioned plus some until gkrieg gave the weakest of paper defenses of ash and then backed it up with more unsubstantiated stuff. So it could be scum poorly defending scum partner or scum poorly defending a town member for cred
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 04:04:04 pm
scummy: you all
townie: me

quality content contribution from O strikes again

O what are your thoughts on andrew and chairs?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:04:29 pm
scummy: you all
townie: me

quality content contribution from O strikes again

I agree with this. I disagree that you've been doing this. Do more of this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:11:17 pm
Galz Iím curious why you find gkrieg townie, I was voting and pursuing an ash lynch for the exact reason you just mentioned plus some until gkrieg gave the weakest of paper defenses of ash and then backed it up with more unsubstantiated stuff. So it could be scum poorly defending scum partner or scum poorly defending a town member for cred

If I find Player A scummy, and Player B defends Player A, that does not mean I must find Player B scummy.

Gkrieg reads normal town Gkrieg to me. It gets him mislynched a lot. He's more under the radar as scum imo.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:15:33 pm
scummy: you all
townie: me

quality content contribution from O strikes again

O what are your thoughts on andrew and chairs?
happy to lynch either

chairs is a decent lynch because his role is useless, and most roles seem pretty positive overall for town compared than scum.

Andrew: Ganon seems like the main scum-favored utility role: if town, how many scum are going to be vanilla? 1?

in terms of alignment reads, ehhh? neither here nor there. Refer to previous post for verdict.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:22:20 pm
So he did.

Samus and Kirby were 2 and 3.

Why not Jigglypuff?

I only wanted Bowser; figured I one wouldnít cut it, settler on three.  Picked the roles I would be okay with.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:25:21 pm
II do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.

Is there something about mcmc other than activity level that makes you think he's townie?

Yes. For mcmc, being this active early and this productive and trying to get the game moving is a town tell, I think. He doesn't always do it as town, but I don't think he ever does it this convincingly as scum.

Wrong.  He does it convincingly as scum.  If he has daychat, he incessantly posts about how nerve wracking it is.  Heíll paint a picture like a super nervous witness hiding from the mob.  Heíll dedicate at least three post-game posts on how tough it was.

But he can most definitely do it (or any of his towntells) as scum.  Thatís what makes him so good at being scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:25:32 pm
II do think mcmc is super townie and faust moderately so. Everyone else needs to post more.

Is there something about mcmc other than activity level that makes you think he's townie?

Yes. For mcmc, being this active early and this productive and trying to get the game moving is a town tell, I think. He doesn't always do it as town, but I don't think he ever does it this convincingly as scum.

This strikes me as true. I don't know if he's *incapable* of doing it as scum, though.

Just ask his ever present PR guy and apologist.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:28:08 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town. 
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:29:32 pm
Hilariously, this is the only game ever where you know I wonít self-hammer as any alignment.  As scum, why would I block the free kill?  As town, why would I block my free vengeance?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:30:20 pm
And yes, I put my sweet, sweet vengeance above winning.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:30:26 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:31:54 pm
So, letís stop wasting time talking about me at all, because thereís zero benefit to lynching me.

Vig me if you think Iím scum, or scum will NK me for you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:32:34 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.

If itís not, seems like a fairly incompetent or lazy scum team.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:36:26 pm
I think I can actively drive my mislynch here if I want.  Great feeling of freedom.

You know my favorite part of being mislynched?  Lording the mistakes over those players who thought they were so right.  Especially when I get the win anyway as long as Town recovers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:38:27 pm
idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:40:09 pm
i am providing opinions, though, for the post-Mortem.

On Robz/Mcmc: I think robz jumped the gun in reacting to my fake counterclaim.  Heís not as focused as usual, saw town counter his partner, immediately voted one of the claimants.

But he forget his own rule ó second claimer is always telling the truth (as scum usually wants to get out in front and set the stage).  Town!robz just as easily misreacts to a fake counterclaim ó only scum!robz automatically ďknowsĒ which one is lying.

So thatís where they leaked info, in my opinion.  Just a simple slip from Robz that he had more info than he should about Mcmc.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:40:48 pm
idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

O, Iíve been expecting your vote since sign ups.  You have a personal issue with me and I have no idea why.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 04:42:00 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 04:44:10 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.

If itís not, seems like a fairly incompetent or lazy scum team.

I love being on scum teams that know everybody's claims ahead of time so we post safe fake claim lists in our QT N0.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:45:26 pm
idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

O, Iíve been expecting your vote since sign ups.  You have a personal issue with me and I have no idea why.

when have I even tried to kill you except in m100 when you were scum
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:46:19 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.

If itís not, seems like a fairly incompetent or lazy scum team.

I love being on scum teams that know everybody's claims ahead of time so we post safe fake claim lists in our QT N0.

i can confirm galzria does this all the time
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 04:46:52 pm
I am feeling perfectly happy with my vote on ash.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 04:50:17 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:51:27 pm
idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

O, Iíve been expecting your vote since sign ups.  You have a personal issue with me and I have no idea why.

when have I even tried to kill you except in m100 when you were scum

I went back and looked... M100 was our only other game together? I correctly voted for you as scum, after you said "scum should just FF" in dejection in a really scummy way?

i don't mean to fan the flames but you've never even registered on my radar enough for me to have a personal issue with you
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 04:52:24 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:53:07 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.

If itís not, seems like a fairly incompetent or lazy scum team.

I love being on scum teams that know everybody's claims ahead of time so we post safe fake claim lists in our QT N0.

Well, obviously you didnít make the list on N0.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:53:41 pm
I am feeling perfectly happy with my vote on ash.

Because you are super caught and need me out of the game ASAP?  Yeah, that tracks.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:54:25 pm
idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

O, Iíve been expecting your vote since sign ups.  You have a personal issue with me and I have no idea why.

when have I even tried to kill you except in m100 when you were scum

I went back and looked... M100 was our only other game together? I correctly voted for you as scum, after you said "scum should just FF" in dejection in a really scummy way?

i don't mean to fan the flames but you've never even registered on my radar enough for me to have a personal issue with you

See, huge personal issue.  I donít even know why.  Whatever I may have done to offend, Iím truly sorry, man.  I donít even know you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2017, 04:56:13 pm
I feel like it has been a long time since I have seen such an asherskian D1. I guess part of that comes from being Bowser.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:56:49 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 04:57:13 pm
i've have you all know that my deep preparation consisted of not reading the roles until we had all already claimed. This includes a mostly random character selection.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:58:21 pm
I feel like it has been a long time since I have seen such an asherskian D1. I guess part of that comes from being Bowser.

If only yuma would come back.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 04:58:54 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.

If you get to L-1, I am happy to unvote, let you vote for yourself, and then hammer you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 04:59:13 pm
i've have you all know that my deep preparation consisted of not reading the roles until we had all already claimed. This includes a mostly random character selection.

Did you make your list based solely on flavor, or did you at least skim for that purpose?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 05:00:13 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.

If you get to L-1, I am happy to unvote, let you vote for yourself, and then hammer you.

Deal.  Although, scummy cover plan, my man. 

If this comes to pass, no one steal his hammer!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 05:00:41 pm
Wait, no one can mess with voting, right?  Like Hated and doubles and such?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 05:00:52 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.

If you get to L-1, I am happy to unvote, let you vote for yourself, and then hammer you.

Deal.  Although, scummy cover plan, my man. 

If this comes to pass, no one steal his hammer!

Who would steal the hammer...?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 05:02:02 pm
i've have you all know that my deep preparation consisted of not reading the roles until we had all already claimed. This includes a mostly random character selection.

Did you make your list based solely on flavor, or did you at least skim for that purpose?

I was like "Universal back up somewhat hilarious but I bet nobody else cares about it" and had a similar opinion on somewhere between 0-2 other roles
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 05:12:37 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.

Mostly because your around and talking, specifically because it was gkriegs post about you that made me vote him, and o seems to be having trouble commiting to a read strong enough to vote and I was offering one.

Also on your second point if we do lynch you we should absolutely make robz hammer as he is potentially one-shot deathproof.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 05:22:09 pm
wait this all makes so much sense with Robz!Ashersky

ITS A DAY ONE BUS GUYS

if they're both scum they know either that Ashersky is vanilla or that Robz is deathproof. Either way they get Robz hammering scum d1 with the appearance of risking death via Bowser
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 05:23:23 pm
vote: Ashersky because I want to believe
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:28:32 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:29:07 pm
mcmc, why is gkrieg scummy ? Because his defense of ash was bad ? It wasn't bad though.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:32:02 pm
Wait, no one can mess with voting, right?  Like Hated and doubles and such?

No.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 05:33:26 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.

"i think it's weird that someone new to a social game adopted the norms of the game after almost everyone else did"

????

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:39:20 pm
Well, yeah. Without questioning it at all, I do find it weird.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 05:41:58 pm
I think you've been around too many thickheaded F.DS types
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:43:55 pm
I think you've been around too many thickheaded F.DS types

I'm not suggesting that I'd expect a newbie to outright refuse, it's more that I'd expect them to inquire about why we're doing what we're doing.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 05:50:52 pm
Happy to be the D1 mislynch.  Iíd like Mcmc to hammer me, please.

Robz is def a partner.  Iíd list Tep as probable.

Iím torn on Galz.  Iím feeling like 98% town there, which probably means definitely scum.  Plus, that handy list of possible fake claims seems like he just grabbed that from the scum qt.

Chairs is town.

You mean the one where I listed all non claimed characters? Yeah, we totally had that pretyped and ready to go in our scum QT lol.

If itís not, seems like a fairly incompetent or lazy scum team.

I love being on scum teams that know everybody's claims ahead of time so we post safe fake claim lists in our QT N0.

Well, obviously you didnít make the list on N0.

If we didn't make it N0, and it's D1, when did it get made?

The implication is Day chat, yes? Who lied about their character?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 21, 2017, 05:56:40 pm
Galz Iím curious why you find gkrieg townie, I was voting and pursuing an ash lynch for the exact reason you just mentioned plus some until gkrieg gave the weakest of paper defenses of ash and then backed it up with more unsubstantiated stuff. So it could be scum poorly defending scum partner or scum poorly defending a town member for cred

If I find Player A scummy, and Player B defends Player A, that does not mean I must find Player B scummy.

Gkrieg reads normal town Gkrieg to me. It gets him mislynched a lot. He's more under the radar as scum imo.

No but you should....
Player B as a town player cannot know that Player A is Town, therefore Player B is most likely skum....
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 05:59:42 pm
@Swan : I defend people as town all the time. As should you, and everyone else.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 06:00:20 pm
Meaning: player B defending player A does not make any of the two more likely to be scum in a vacuum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 06:03:44 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.

Disagree. I think a newbie is less likely to want to rock the boat, independent of alignment.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:05:10 pm
I think I can actively drive my mislynch here if I want.  Great feeling of freedom.

You know my favorite part of being mislynched?  Lording the mistakes over those players who thought they were so right.  Especially when I get the win anyway as long as Town recovers.

You understand that your mislynch could potentially result in 2 town deaths though...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:06:25 pm
i am providing opinions, though, for the post-Mortem.

On Robz/Mcmc: I think robz jumped the gun in reacting to my fake counterclaim.  Heís not as focused as usual, saw town counter his partner, immediately voted one of the claimants.

But he forget his own rule ó second claimer is always telling the truth (as scum usually wants to get out in front and set the stage).  Town!robz just as easily misreacts to a fake counterclaim ó only scum!robz automatically ďknowsĒ which one is lying.

So thatís where they leaked info, in my opinion.  Just a simple slip from Robz that he had more info than he should about Mcmc.

So here you are saying that Robz is scum if mcmcsalot is scum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:07:38 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean

I don't like this vote for many reasons.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 06:08:16 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean

I don't like this vote for many reasons.

WHich are ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:09:32 pm
Both o and ash wanna join me voting gkrieg?

Why us two, specifically?

Side note: I think Robz can be scum in a town!mcmc world, but doubt it works the other way around.

I revise my hammer request as such.  Definitely Robz should unvote and promise to hammer.  If he insists on staying on my wagon in a non-hammer Slot, it just add further incontrovertible ďproofĒ that my theory is correct.

If you get to L-1, I am happy to unvote, let you vote for yourself, and then hammer you.

Deal.  Although, scummy cover plan, my man. 

If this comes to pass, no one steal his hammer!

Why would anyone steal this hammer?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:10:57 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.

I see your point, but I don't think it is that weird, given the rate at which people were claiming.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:11:42 pm
I think you've been around too many thickheaded F.DS types

I'm not suggesting that I'd expect a newbie to outright refuse, it's more that I'd expect them to inquire about why we're doing what we're doing.

It's pretty normal in social deduction games for people to start claiming D1.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:12:52 pm
Galz Iím curious why you find gkrieg townie, I was voting and pursuing an ash lynch for the exact reason you just mentioned plus some until gkrieg gave the weakest of paper defenses of ash and then backed it up with more unsubstantiated stuff. So it could be scum poorly defending scum partner or scum poorly defending a town member for cred

If I find Player A scummy, and Player B defends Player A, that does not mean I must find Player B scummy.

Gkrieg reads normal town Gkrieg to me. It gets him mislynched a lot. He's more under the radar as scum imo.

No but you should....
Player B as a town player cannot know that Player A is Town, therefore Player B is most likely skum....

So are you saying that I shouldn't defend people?  Obviously I don't know ash is town, but he is being incredibly like his town self.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:14:05 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean

I don't like this vote for many reasons.

WHich are ?

One is the fact that there is no space.  The second is that it had no relation to what you were talking about in the post.  Which makes it a naked vote for a newbie, which I don't like too much.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 06:17:03 pm
vote: seanbean

The relation was that I wanted to move away from ash because he was being townie. I like naked votes on newbies because I want to see how they react, but obviously since he's not here it ended up being a moot point.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 06:17:33 pm
I think you've been around too many thickheaded F.DS types

I'm not suggesting that I'd expect a newbie to outright refuse, it's more that I'd expect them to inquire about why we're doing what we're doing.

It's pretty normal in social deduction games for people to start claiming D1.

Not in my experience. At all.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:18:50 pm
vote: seanbean

The relation was that I wanted to move away from ash because he was being townie. I like naked votes on newbies because I want to see how they react, but obviously since he's not here it ended up being a moot point.

I think I like giving them some kind of reasoning behind the vote and see them defend themselves better.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 21, 2017, 06:19:06 pm
I think you've been around too many thickheaded F.DS types

I'm not suggesting that I'd expect a newbie to outright refuse, it's more that I'd expect them to inquire about why we're doing what we're doing.

It's pretty normal in social deduction games for people to start claiming D1.

Not in my experience. At all.

I guess it depends on how intense your game group is.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 21, 2017, 06:21:17 pm
so nobody else finds it suspicious that two people with very strong incentives to pull off a bus if both scum found themselves both encouraging one to hammer the other?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 21, 2017, 06:22:44 pm
Galz Iím curious why you find gkrieg townie, I was voting and pursuing an ash lynch for the exact reason you just mentioned plus some until gkrieg gave the weakest of paper defenses of ash and then backed it up with more unsubstantiated stuff. So it could be scum poorly defending scum partner or scum poorly defending a town member for cred

If I find Player A scummy, and Player B defends Player A, that does not mean I must find Player B scummy.

Gkrieg reads normal town Gkrieg to me. It gets him mislynched a lot. He's more under the radar as scum imo.

No but you should....
Player B as a town player cannot know that Player A is Town, therefore Player B is most likely skum....

So are you saying that I shouldn't defend people?  Obviously I don't know ash is town, but he is being incredibly like his town self.

I would never claim to tell anyone what to do. Defend away good sir.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 06:25:48 pm
i am providing opinions, though, for the post-Mortem.

On Robz/Mcmc: I think robz jumped the gun in reacting to my fake counterclaim.  Heís not as focused as usual, saw town counter his partner, immediately voted one of the claimants.

But he forget his own rule ó second claimer is always telling the truth (as scum usually wants to get out in front and set the stage).  Town!robz just as easily misreacts to a fake counterclaim ó only scum!robz automatically ďknowsĒ which one is lying.

So thatís where they leaked info, in my opinion.  Just a simple slip from Robz that he had more info than he should about Mcmc.

So here you are saying that Robz is scum if mcmcsalot is scum?

Definitely.  100%.

Iím also saying Robz is scum if mcmcsalot is town, but only 93%.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2017, 06:27:05 pm
I think I can actively drive my mislynch here if I want.  Great feeling of freedom.

You know my favorite part of being mislynched?  Lording the mistakes over those players who thought they were so right.  Especially when I get the win anyway as long as Town recovers.

You understand that your mislynch could potentially result in 2 town deaths though...

Yes, I do.  And in fact is more likely, if allowed to be hammered organically.  We should definitely force a scummy player to hammer.  I vote Robz, of course, but there may be a consensus pick elsewhere.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 21, 2017, 06:32:24 pm
vote: Robz
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 21, 2017, 06:33:11 pm
FIRST!

vote: ashersky for not posting.

Why is Ashersky not posting scummy?

He's actively preventing us from getting a read on him by his inaction.

Hello! Every time I post, please, someone, reply "GO FINISH YOUR BOOK."

Are we going to massclaim right away, or have a long argument about it and then massclaim anyway?

Like... maybe the solution is we don't massclaim? Or we discuss -what- we're going to massclaim?

IDK.

FWIW: If we're going to do this, I think we all claim how many heroes we listed first. Then we claim flavor name. Then we claim our lists.

I think that maximizes the opportunity for somebody to get caught in a lie.

Here, I'll start even, so we can just get on with it.

I'm Captain Falcon.

No posts from you between these. Why the sudden and drastic change in opinion about how we should claim?

Because between these two posts I realized i was just going to make myself angry by trying to push for something I saw as more beneficial to Town, when the most beneficial thing is to just get discussion going.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 21, 2017, 06:39:36 pm
so nobody else finds it suspicious that two people with very strong incentives to pull off a bus if both scum found themselves both encouraging one to hammer the other?

I find it manufactured, but not alignment indicative. So what if Robz hammers and doesn't die? Doesn't make him scum. Just means either Ash isn't active or they both are. It's advantageous at this point and time to both play off the idea that they are active.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 21, 2017, 06:42:11 pm
Iím the real RB, Mcmc, Yuma will back me up.

bowser

Last claim. Convenient claim. Good way to avoid being the lynch. If you're town then scum will never hammer you and town absolutely shouldn't do so. If you're scum then scum will NEVER hammer you, and town probably should - but it would need to be 100%.

Town Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 0

Scum Ash:
Scum Hammer: 0
Town Hammer: 1

Further - If you're Mafia then you only have to worry about a potential SK or (if you're Vanilla) Andrew (If he's town himself and has the Vig power). If you're town then you have as much to worry about at night as anybody.

For the record, you could be Bowser. You could also be:
Mario
Donkey Kong
Samus
Ness
Peach
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Roy
Dr. Mario
Young Link

Some of those are trackable and verifiable. Others less so.

1) I think you are missing Falco from the FC list (not that it matters)
2) The set up dictates there are not Traitor or Survivor variants or any kind. Is SK not a variant of Survivor?
3) I think to say that skum would NEVER hammer, is an overstatement. Example - if it is Robz!Ash as Deathproof and Bowser... not saying it is likely, just saying there may be exceptions to keep in mind.


Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 21, 2017, 06:48:16 pm
I agree with Galz that the ash/Robz hammer thing is mostly them WIFOMing their PR being active, which is fine and all but not particularly interesting re: alignment.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 21, 2017, 06:56:25 pm
Bowser claim/claim order thoughts:

1) If you were to pick Bowser, and then receive a Town alignment, and an active PR - would you not be more quick off the draw when it came to claiming? You have the role and you know what it is going to look like when you claim last right?

2) As Skum - Wait til the back. Important note, wait til the back when you know Kirby is in the game. Situtation one, you are safe because kill back potential. Situation 2, it doesn't work, you still get lynched, take out the Town hammer, and you turn Kirby into Bowser. If Kirby = Town, and we assuming again Skum will not hammer, this is the original Bowser kill back, plus the Kirby death (if it happens), and the Town Hammer kill back (if it happens).... lots of words in a row and I have been known to be overly paranoid, but just saying.

3) As Town - Why wait until the back of order? You create confusion for your team with the fake claim theories that will assuredly come out, and you have to know it will be a town hammer if you go down so why draw more attention then needed?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 21, 2017, 07:53:12 pm
This just seems like a really ashersky thing to do. I'm not seeing the scumread, but if he wants to be today's lynch I won't stop him.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2017, 08:28:03 pm
Ash claimed at the end--giving him the opportunity to claim something other than what he actually had--and what he claimed is like one of the things that makes you absolutely not want to lynch him. So that's scummy in a vacuum.

That said I'm pretty sure he's actually Boswer, because it seems like something ashersky would pick. I can absolutely see ash being a little too eager to get himself lynched pronto so he can use this power...

Huh, maybe I'm talking myself out of my scum read here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 08:37:32 pm
mcmc, why is gkrieg scummy ? Because his defense of ash was bad ? It wasn't bad though.

I thought it was point out with context of the time why it was a good defense.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 21, 2017, 08:39:38 pm
Well that's more like town!ash.

I will point out that I have that list of PRs (and a list of the flavor of the people in the game obviously) in a Word document, and I'd expect someone like Galz to have that too.

vote:seanbean
Vote: Teproc

It is time.

Time to redo Insomnia Mafia ? It doesn't work, man, I think you're town !

If it'll help, I think it's weird that seanbean (can we just call him Boromir ? Or Ned ?) claimed without hesitating at all, for a newbie.

I see your point, but I don't think it is that weird, given the rate at which people were claiming.
I agree with this and robz point, I think itís actually more towny how Sean claimed, he was late but that seems like his activity.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on December 21, 2017, 09:29:46 pm
Very sorry everyone. I might have time to read tomorrow, definitely by Saturday I'll have some content for you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 21, 2017, 09:43:36 pm
Vote Count 1.4

ashersky(2): Robz888, O
gkrieg13(2):Joseph2302, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(2): gkrieg13, Galzria
seanbean(1): Teproc
Teproc(1): faust
Robz888(1): chairs

Not Voting (5): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.

where does the joatís 1-Shot ascetic go in the resolution chain and is it targetable on someone or only self targeted?
It occurs in the Blocking phase of the action resolution (so after Sidekick but before Redirector). It is not a targeted action - the user simply 'becomes' Ascetic for that night a la Falco's ability.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 01:42:36 am
2) The set up dictates there are not Traitor or Survivor variants or any kind. Is SK not a variant of Survivor?
Yeah, it is very explicitly stated that there are only 2 alignments.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 22, 2017, 01:50:22 am
Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 22, 2017, 01:53:57 am
Question based on inexperience:
As skum, what roles would be considered strong enough to protect with switching claims? Assuming the strong role is active of course.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 02:07:33 am
Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?

Is this not good enough for you?

Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up).

[...]

The remaining will be aligned with Good.

It bothers me when people cause more more for the mods unnecessarily. I realize I did the same with my untimely prod request. Sorry!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 02:08:38 am
*more work, that should read
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 02:13:26 am
This just seems like a really ashersky thing to do. I'm not seeing the scumread, but if he wants to be today's lynch I won't stop him.
Do you by any chance have thoughts on anyone else?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 02:14:58 am
ashersky, could you explain why you did not claim when you posted: "I counterclaim momsalon"?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 22, 2017, 04:04:16 am
Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?

Is this not good enough for you?

Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up).

[...]

The remaining will be aligned with Good.

If it was, I would not of asked.

It bothers me when people cause more more for the mods unnecessarily. I realize I did the same with my untimely prod request. Sorry!

what is unnecessary for you, may not be the same for everyone. I have made enough mistakes in "assumptions" so far in my previous games to not feel bad about asking for simple clarifications from the one entity in the game I can actually rely on 100%. Also, FWIW, I assume by asking in the thread it saves the MOD time of potentially having to answer several of the same question in separate QTs.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 22, 2017, 04:08:29 am
Ash claimed at the end--giving him the opportunity to claim something other than what he actually had--and what he claimed is like one of the things that makes you absolutely not want to lynch him. So that's scummy in a vacuum.

That said I'm pretty sure he's actually Boswer, because it seems like something ashersky would pick. I can absolutely see ash being a little too eager to get himself lynched pronto so he can use this power...


I am *assuming* you are referencing a scenario of Town!Ash here. If that is the case, why would he be eager? Assuming also that skum would not hammer a potential Town!Bowser, what is to be gained from pushing a lynch on himself "pronto"?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 04:33:35 am
Well, I thionk it's relatively straightforward right ? If Samus was higher in Swan's list than what he got, it straight up means someone is lying, right ? Or am I missing something ?
Rereading Teproc, I think this is enough to make me reconsider my vote for now... let's check out other options!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 04:41:17 am
happy to lynch either

chairs is a decent lynch because his role is useless, and most roles seem pretty positive overall for town compared than scum.

Andrew: Ganon seems like the main scum-favored utility role: if town, how many scum are going to be vanilla? 1?

in terms of alignment reads, ehhh? neither here nor there. Refer to previous post for verdict.

This post I don't like at all. chairs is like the towniest player around. And his role is not useless if we believe scum lied. They are less likely to lie as chairs claimed first, but we might still catch them. There are a lot of roles that will be worse. At the very least, chairs may detect redirection.

Also, lynching because of roles is bad. I mean there are some players where their potential role leads me to not want to lynch them right away, but that is maybe 2 or 3 and the rest is fair game.

Vote: O
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 22, 2017, 06:37:49 am
All to early post count to mean much but I had the time and it includes a subtraction of everyoneís pre-game posts so late this can be referenced easily to get accurate numbers:

mcmcsalot 34-1=33
faust 46-13=33
Teproc 15-3=12
Galzria 14-3=11
Joseph2302 12-1=11
ashersky 11-1=10
DatSwan 13-3=10
chairs 9-1=8
O 9-1=8
Robz888 10-3=7
gkrieg13 7-2=5
IDontPlayThisGame 9-5=4
AndrewisFTTW 6-3=3
seanbean 2-1=1
Wow I'm high on the post list. Must be towny then.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 22, 2017, 06:39:10 am
Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?

Is this not good enough for you?

Once each player has a character, three are chosen to be aligned with Evil (more if more people sign up).

[...]

The remaining will be aligned with Good.

If it was, I would not of asked.

It bothers me when people cause more more for the mods unnecessarily. I realize I did the same with my untimely prod request. Sorry!

what is unnecessary for you, may not be the same for everyone. I have made enough mistakes in "assumptions" so far in my previous games to not feel bad about asking for simple clarifications from the one entity in the game I can actually rely on 100%. Also, FWIW, I assume by asking in the thread it saves the MOD time of potentially having to answer several of the same question in separate QTs.
This can't be true. I'm the SK. So it must be in the game
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 07:08:13 am
This can't be true. I'm the SK. So it must be in the game
Are you sure that you are in the game?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 22, 2017, 08:41:41 am
Jesus ok apparently you don't want to be in this game then.

vote: Joseph2302.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 09:14:26 am
happy to lynch either

chairs is a decent lynch because his role is useless, and most roles seem pretty positive overall for town compared than scum.

Andrew: Ganon seems like the main scum-favored utility role: if town, how many scum are going to be vanilla? 1?

in terms of alignment reads, ehhh? neither here nor there. Refer to previous post for verdict.

This post I don't like at all. chairs is like the towniest player around. And his role is not useless if we believe scum lied. They are less likely to lie as chairs claimed first, but we might still catch them. There are a lot of roles that will be worse. At the very least, chairs may detect redirection.

Also, lynching because of roles is bad. I mean there are some players where their potential role leads me to not want to lynch them right away, but that is maybe 2 or 3 and the rest is fair game.

Vote: O

I agree with everything you said but not the vote for o because of it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 09:57:11 am
Do you think O is town? I also looked at his other posts... mostly, this is as much content as I could find. I found town!o from M100 to be a lot more engaged and confrontational.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 10:03:43 am
Do you think O is town? I also looked at his other posts... mostly, this is as much content as I could find. I found town!o from M100 to be a lot more engaged and confrontational.

I donít have a strong read on him though nothing he has done has struck me as unlike what I have seen from him in the past. I guess I donít know what I would expect scum o to look like so itís definitely a null read on him, I just think heís definitely less scummy than galz/robz/gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 10:09:14 am
Jesus ok apparently you don't want to be in this game then.

vote: Joseph2302.

I canít tell if Joseph is scum leaning into the scum wouldnít act like this defense or just acting like this because he doesnít know what to do.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
oh looky Faust got bored so he drummed up a vote for me with "here's some metagame portion i disagree with but have made literal 0 effort to explain why it's alignment indicative"


always happy to lynch faust btw
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 22, 2017, 12:28:06 pm
Jesus ok apparently you don't want to be in this game then.

vote: Joseph2302.

I canít tell if Joseph is scum leaning into the scum wouldnít act like this defense or just acting like this because he doesnít know what to do.
I'm good and never know really what to do D1.

I think faust is kind of towny right now though
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 12:59:53 pm
oh looky Faust got bored so he drummed up a vote for me with "here's some metagame portion i disagree with but have made literal 0 effort to explain why it's alignment indicative"


always happy to lynch faust btw
Kinda ironic coming from someone who wants to lynch based on non-alignment indicative stuff...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 01:08:36 pm
oh looky Faust got bored so he drummed up a vote for me with "here's some metagame portion i disagree with but have made literal 0 effort to explain why it's alignment indicative"


always happy to lynch faust btw
Kinda ironic coming from someone who wants to lynch based on non-alignment indicative stuff...

You're being quite dense. Have you not read the past five pages?

1. I state I have no substantial reads. You have ignored this entirely.
2. In the post immediately after that, I give role based analysis of why I don't mind lynch candidates. I don't vote for either of them.
3. Later on, I propose a alignment-based theory on why Robz!Ashersky are acting the way they are
4. My vote, which is my largest indicator of how I want to lynch, is based on said alignment based read.

It's always the people who over value the "logical persona" as a front that don't actually have a shred of consistency to their points.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2017, 01:26:17 pm
oh looky Faust got bored so he drummed up a vote for me with "here's some metagame portion i disagree with but have made literal 0 effort to explain why it's alignment indicative"


always happy to lynch faust btw
Kinda ironic coming from someone who wants to lynch based on non-alignment indicative stuff...

You're being quite dense. Have you not read the past five pages?

1. I state I have no substantial reads. You have ignored this entirely.
2. In the post immediately after that, I give role based analysis of why I don't mind lynch candidates. I don't vote for either of them.
3. Later on, I propose a alignment-based theory on why Robz!Ashersky are acting the way they are
4. My vote, which is my largest indicator of how I want to lynch, is based on said alignment based read.

It's always the people who over value the "logical persona" as a front that don't actually have a shred of consistency to their points.
Here I was, thinking you voted ashersky because he wanted to be lynched. Silly me to think that...

idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

Ah.

Where ash/Robz is concerned, I am not going to take D1 partner theories seriously, sorry.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 01:43:31 pm
oh looky Faust got bored so he drummed up a vote for me with "here's some metagame portion i disagree with but have made literal 0 effort to explain why it's alignment indicative"


always happy to lynch faust btw
Kinda ironic coming from someone who wants to lynch based on non-alignment indicative stuff...

You're being quite dense. Have you not read the past five pages?

1. I state I have no substantial reads. You have ignored this entirely.
2. In the post immediately after that, I give role based analysis of why I don't mind lynch candidates. I don't vote for either of them.
3. Later on, I propose a alignment-based theory on why Robz!Ashersky are acting the way they are
4. My vote, which is my largest indicator of how I want to lynch, is based on said alignment based read.

It's always the people who over value the "logical persona" as a front that don't actually have a shred of consistency to their points.
Here I was, thinking you voted ashersky because he wanted to be lynched. Silly me to think that...

idk guys he kinda sounds like he wants to be lynched

who am i to deny that pleasure

Ah.

Where ash/Robz is concerned, I am not going to take D1 partner theories seriously, sorry.

I'm confused -- now you're claiming that I'm trying to lynch people because they wanted to be lynched! (Even that comment was clearly facetious)

Just a few posts ago you claimed to be voting for me because of my entirely non-intersecting set of lynch priorities of role analysis.

Am I voting for Chairs because of his role? (Nope)
Am I voting for Ashersky because he wants to be lynched? (Nope)
Am I voting for Ashersky because I think it's quite convenient that the potential deathproof and potential vengeful specifically tried to set up a lynch scenario? (Yep)

Which of the two joke posts would you like to take seriously? You can pick one but not both, sorry.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 01:51:40 pm
Do you think O is town? I also looked at his other posts... mostly, this is as much content as I could find. I found town!o from M100 to be a lot more engaged and confrontational.

You actually claim to have looked at all my posts before voting for me.

You then proceeded to pick a completely out of date motif ("O isn't voting off alignment") place it completely out of context, and claim that I hadn't provided any other content when I had pretty objectively provided other content that is entirely read/alignment based.

Is someone else going to come in here and tell me I'm crazy? Faust's argument literally doesn't match up at all. This isn't even subjective -- he cannot have read all my posts to that point while believing I had provided no other content, and specifically only role utility based content. His post is as close as you can get to being objectively false about a read in this game.

Vote: Faust
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 02:04:28 pm
Iím here O, let me break it down for you since I do think you v faust is town v town.

Faust votes you for your response to my question to you about Andrew/Chairs. He didnít like that you said you would be fine lynchig either (Chairs is a strong town read of his) for what looked to him like mostly role reasons. You explained you would be okay lynching either because Chairs role is fairly useless and andrews was scum-favored utility. You even said as far as alignment goes neither her nor there.

So faust doesnít like that and votes you. I agree with him that lynching people based off roles is silly and that Chairs is townie, but disagree that it merits voting you, I asked you a question you responded, you werenít even voting them. To Faust, I think you misunderstood Oís post in a vacuum and not as it relates to answering my question.

Then you go on to vote ash because of the theory that him and robz could be cooking stuff up. Here I mostly agree with the people who think itís more just robz and ash regardless of alignment playing toward pretending to both be prís which is good. Since I think ash was scummy (less so with his recent posts) I donít mind your vote on him and think Fausts is silly for totally throwing out your theory as ďd1 partner theoriesĒ he just wonít hear. I would say at least you are coming up with a theory.

In summary you are both just trying to find scum and stop voting for eachother.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 02:06:04 pm
Also the more time that goes by with gkrieg not posting as much as I suspect and people not really having good reasons to debate my case but also not super acknowledging that Iím pushing it repeatedly, the happier I am with my vote there. Hard wagons to make are scum wagons.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 02:07:10 pm
And since it seems to be kinda dead here are my thoughts on what powers should do.

Investigators:
IDontPlayThisGame - [Pichu] - (Weak Visitor) - Mewtwo can mess pichu up no matter who pichu is targeting however Yoshi only needs to block pichu if the event he is targeting mafia. I think it is best for pichu to not claim target until the next day.
chairs - [Captain Falcon] - (Modified Flavor Cop) - Even more so then Pichu I dont think Chairs has to claim any target before hand, I seriously doubt he is high on mafia's kill list and should be able to reveal info the next day.
seanbean - [Marth] - (Tracker) - Sean should definitely not claim his target as that only gives re-directors info. Use your own judgment upon when to claim info if you have it.

Pro Town PR's:
Teproc - [Link] - (Jack-Of-All-Trades) - Use your own judgment about Blocking a redirector/possible nonpower mafia read, Tracking a redirector/mafia read, and doctoring an investigator/doctor.
faust - [Sheik] - (Even-Night Ninja Doctor) - Use your own judgment

Flex PR's:
Mcmcsalot [Mr. Game and Watch] - (Neighborizer) - Anyone I neighborize has to trust me to give me any info but I think it's the best use to neighborize an investigator to spread the info they receive to multiple sources. The other things I can do are neighborize a person to "check" for mewtwo/fox redirection or simply neighborize a top town read to have private analysis.
AndrewisFTTW - [Ganondorf] - (1-shot Limited Vigilante) - Always in favor of saving vig shots, also I think its good to save for a later time when we are about to lynch someone who claims a pr to get off of lynch, thats a nice way to check if they are telling the truth.
Joseph2302 - [Yoshi] - (Roleblocker) - Same as Link, best to block a galz/datswan or a non action mafia read.

Redirection:
gkrieg13 - [Mewtwo] - (2-shot Inverting Redirector) - I think you should claim your targets each day so investigators/protectors/trackers no how to avoid you but mafia doesn't know if you are going to screw with their oracle or not. You would then not tell us if you did or did not use the power as everyone should be avoiding you it won't matter. We turn you purely into a PR protector by making oracle suspect.
Galzria - [Fox] - (2-shot Diverter) - Divert things off of you to a mafia read, investigators and protectors should not be aiming your way to prevent being diverted.
DatSwan - [Pikachu] - (1-shot Lightning Rod) - Just don't I think the only use of this should be if we know we have a doc available. Then you announce I am going to use this tonight, the only town powers used are a doctor and a tracker, this forces a no kill night. (caveat if mafia!teproc can make him self ascetic and resolve before lr would hit him he could then make the mafia kill go somewhere else)


Non actionable powers
O - [Kirby] - (Universal Backup) - When the first non-Vanilla player dies, you will inherit their powers. If a X-shot PR dies with no shots left, it will not be valid for inheritance.
ashersky - [Bowser] - (Supersaint) - If you are lynched, you will also kill whoever cast the hammer vote.
Robz888 - [Ice Climbers] - (1-shot Deathproof) - The first time you would be killed (including lynches), you will survive.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 02:10:13 pm
@MCMC

The problem isn't whether Faust liked or disliked my original post, it's that he portrayed it as how I was voting this game when it was clearly not.

Faust also claimed that I hadn't posted other content. He also claimed to have read all my other posts.

You have to agree that there's clear falsehoods somewhere in what Faust wrote, yes?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 22, 2017, 02:14:05 pm
ashersky, could you explain why you did not claim when you posted: "I counterclaim momsalon"?

Didnít want to spoil any fun.  Didnít really think it mattered what order we claimed anyway.  I donít expect fakers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 02:24:31 pm
@MCMC

The problem isn't whether Faust liked or disliked my original post, it's that he portrayed it as how I was voting this game when it was clearly not.

Faust also claimed that I hadn't posted other content. He also claimed to have read all my other posts.

You have to agree that there's clear falsehoods somewhere in what Faust wrote, yes?
I think falsehoods is a stretch, less than accurate rereading and over exaggerated point making leading to not fully correct statements is more apt. And I donít think thats scummy from faust. I mean if he wants to sit with his vote on you for like three days and double down on how supernscummy he thinks you are then yea I might change my mind, for now heís still a town read.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 22, 2017, 03:37:35 pm
Redirection:
gkrieg13 - [Mewtwo] - (2-shot Inverting Redirector) - I think you should claim your targets each day so investigators/protectors/trackers no how to avoid you but mafia doesn't know if you are going to screw with their oracle or not. You would then not tell us if you did or did not use the power as everyone should be avoiding you it won't matter. We turn you purely into a PR protector by making oracle suspect.

You can't be serious with this.  You realize that there isn't any point to my role if I announce my targets beforehand right?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 22, 2017, 03:41:59 pm
I think you are discounting the effect town!redirectors can have.  Just think about what happened in Rewind when iguana redirected a shot that ended up killing mafia.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 04:05:53 pm
I think you are discounting the effect town!redirectors can have.  Just think about what happened in Rewind when iguana redirected a shot that ended up killing mafia.
Iím not discounting the effect, I just donít know your town and Iím not afraid of scum!doctor potentially killing cops and messing with trackers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 22, 2017, 06:08:17 pm
I don't know if faust v O is town v town, but I know it's not very interesting or indicative of much. I guess O comes off slightly scummy.

Sean isn't posting. Probably because he's scum, but also : sean, you should be posting.

@gkrieg: If you're town (and a PR), your role is super swingy. I'd say you should definitely not use it night 1, and I will assume you're scum if you do. Chaos at night is generally good for scum... yes, you can come up with a bunch of dreams scenarios where it's great, but on average VT is more pro-town than whatever redirector might be.

I understand you disagree, but, well, you're wrong. Using redirection powers as town is just making the game more random... and the fact that mafia knows who the potential redirection roles are makes it even worse because they can plan somewhat accordingly. Granted, town PRs can as well, but they have less info so it's harder for them.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 22, 2017, 06:08:51 pm
I'm talking about N1 here, btw. It does get viable to use it later on.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 06:45:38 pm
I don't know if faust v O is town v town, but I know it's not very interesting or indicative of much. I guess O comes off slightly scummy.

So are you willing to defend Faust's statements?

Seriously. Explain to me how he wasn't entirely false.

Vote: Teproc

Tired of Faust spewing crap, verifiably false crap, and you expecting me not to respond.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 06:53:57 pm
Unvote voted out  frustration but its really obvious that you didn't actually read the argument imo
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 22, 2017, 06:54:25 pm
I only care if it makes him scum, and I don't see that it does.

I skimmed it. I think you're both misrepresenting each other.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 06:57:22 pm
I only care if it makes him scum, and I don't see that it does.

I skimmed it. I think you're both misrepresenting each other.

so you didn't really read it but have a complete grasp of the situation, got it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 22, 2017, 07:41:23 pm
This just seems like a really ashersky thing to do. I'm not seeing the scumread, but if he wants to be today's lynch I won't stop him.
Do you by any chance have thoughts on anyone else?

Not really. A bunch of null reads so far.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 22, 2017, 10:12:05 pm
I only care if it makes him scum, and I don't see that it does.

I skimmed it. I think you're both misrepresenting each other.

so you didn't really read it but have a complete grasp of the situation, got it.

Interesting that you responded to teproc who did indeed summarize his statements about you v faust but not respond to me who explained it all quite indepthly
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 22, 2017, 10:12:41 pm
I only care if it makes him scum, and I don't see that it does.

I skimmed it. I think you're both misrepresenting each other.

so you didn't really read it but have a complete grasp of the situation, got it.

Interesting that you responded to teproc who did indeed summarize his statements about you v faust but not respond to me who explained it all quite indepthly

i mostly agreed with you
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 23, 2017, 01:24:21 am
I'm confused -- now you're claiming that I'm trying to lynch people because they wanted to be lynched! (Even that comment was clearly facetious)
At least I didn't see another reason for your vote, except for a partner conspiracy.

Just a few posts ago you claimed to be voting for me because of my entirely non-intersecting set of lynch priorities of role analysis.
No I did not.

Am I voting for Chairs because of his role? (Nope)
Am I voting for Ashersky because he wants to be lynched? (Nope)
Am I voting for Ashersky because I think it's quite convenient that the potential deathproof and potential vengeful specifically tried to set up a lynch scenario? (Yep)
I never said you were voting for chairs. If you're voting for ash because of a partner conspiracy rather than because he wants to be lynched, then that does hardly hlep your case.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 23, 2017, 01:55:56 am
I never said you were voting for chairs. If you're voting for ash because of a partner conspiracy rather than because he wants to be lynched, then that does hardly hlep your case.

I disagree. A primary worry of any D1 lynch case is "It seems highly likely that scum our on this wagon, and scum don't bus d1"

Here if scum want to bus D1 it removes any doubt I had of the Ashersky wagon.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 23, 2017, 01:58:31 am
Just a few posts ago you claimed to be voting for me because of my entirely non-intersecting set of lynch priorities of role analysis.
No I did not.
It was your primary dislike of my post in the quote you chose to place alongside your vote for me. I'll stand by my statement.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 23, 2017, 02:41:12 am
Vote Count 1.5

ashersky(1): Robz888
gkrieg13(2):Joseph2302, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(3): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs
seanbean(1): Teproc
O (1): faust

Not Voting (6): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.

Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?
There is no SK
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 23, 2017, 09:04:30 am
Vote Count 1.5

ashersky(1): Robz888
gkrieg13(2):Joseph2302, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(3): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs
seanbean(1): Teproc
O (1): faust

Not Voting (6): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM.

Master Hand - can you confirm that Serial Killer is not an option that could possibly exist in this game?
There is no SK
Well there's no decent wagon yet. Biggest wagon is on me for some reason.

You're all crazy, I'm scum reading all of you
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 23, 2017, 08:03:44 pm
I know it's Christmastime, but it's been 19 hours since anyone other than me posted.

Right now, I don't want to lynch any of the few players that have been active and contributing.
But I kind of feel at this rate we'll just get a mad scramble at deadline time, or a no lynch if not enough people are around at that time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 23, 2017, 08:56:11 pm
I know it's Christmastime, but it's been 19 hours since anyone other than me posted.

Right now, I don't want to lynch any of the few players that have been active and contributing.
But I kind of feel at this rate we'll just get a mad scramble at deadline time, or a no lynch if not enough people are around at that time.

I'm voting for you because you claimed to be the SK that doesn't exist in this setup.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 23, 2017, 09:15:32 pm
I know it's Christmastime, but it's been 19 hours since anyone other than me posted.

Right now, I don't want to lynch any of the few players that have been active and contributing.
But I kind of feel at this rate we'll just get a mad scramble at deadline time, or a no lynch if not enough people are around at that time.

I'm voting for you because you claimed to be the SK that doesn't exist in this setup.

I'm voting for him for claiming to know Gkrieg is town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 24, 2017, 12:36:00 am
Iím voting him partially fromOMGUS RVS and mostly because he said I would be a mislynch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 24, 2017, 06:46:29 am
Iím voting him partially fromOMGUS RVS and mostly because he said I would be a mislynch.
Last 2 games i've played with you we've mislynched you D1 or D2. That's what I was referring to
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 24, 2017, 09:22:02 am
Iím expecting to check in a few times a day max over the next few days, FYI.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 24, 2017, 09:44:19 am
Iím expecting to check in a few times a day max over the next few days, FYI.
Same for most people I guess. I'm V/LA tomorrow & St Stephen's Day
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 24, 2017, 03:08:32 pm
Sorry I have not been around. Nothing has happened since holiday time. Still don't like any wagons. I will be back intermittently today, and a lot tomorrow. Very little on 26th, then good to go after that to deadline. Sorry for lack of content thus far.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 24, 2017, 11:46:17 pm
Semi-VLA myself starting tomorrow.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 25, 2017, 05:45:06 am
Happy Christmas to any who celebrate it!  Happy day off to those who donít!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 26, 2017, 04:45:25 am
Hi, my VLA will be extended somewhat, but i should return before deadline.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 26, 2017, 05:01:02 am
Still V/LA-ish, but back to posting here... game is dead, I guess my vote on sean isn't helping (though I can't say I've seen any compelling reason not to lynch him either), but I don't like the Joseph wagon. gkrieg I could see being scum though, so vote: gkrieg.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: chairs on December 26, 2017, 01:40:54 pm
Ugh.

I'd personally vote between Joseph ("I'm the SK" - yes, I know there's no SK, but he still claimed to be one) and seanbean ("I may never return to the forums for all I'm posting").
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 26, 2017, 01:51:57 pm
Ugh.

I'd personally vote between Joseph ("I'm the SK" - yes, I know there's no SK, but he still claimed to be one) and seanbean ("I may never return to the forums for all I'm posting").
Vote: seanbean then
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 26, 2017, 03:37:53 pm
vote: seanbean then.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 27, 2017, 02:28:24 am
Vote Count 1.6

ashersky(1): Robz888
gkrieg13(1): mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(3): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs
seanbean(2): Joseph2302, Teproc
O (1): faust

Not Voting (6): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 27th at 7:00 PM (~17 hours).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 27, 2017, 04:12:52 am
It's deadline day- let's get the wagons rolling!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 27, 2017, 06:45:37 am
It is ? Oh dear.

BTW, Joseph pointing this out in this spot is another reason not to lynch him.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 27, 2017, 06:46:36 am
I won't be around at deadline, but I'll be there a few hours before it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 27, 2017, 08:35:11 am
I suspect that unfortunately we'll get no lynch due to lack of availability. Hopefully we can avoid that if a decent number of people come online at least once today
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 27, 2017, 10:37:08 am
It is ? Oh dear.

BTW, Joseph pointing this out in this spot is another reason not to lynch him.

I donít think pointing out deadlines is a good reason to not lynch anyone. Going for the newbie by voting when they will probably get modkilled or replaced is though. It is like the ultimate cop out strategy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2017, 11:26:58 am
Sorry I am driving back to DC from Detroit all day.

vote: Joseph to help get a lynch.

Can check back before deadline, maybe.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 27, 2017, 12:49:10 pm
Extend maybe...? holidays seemed to have (rightfully) drawn all of us away

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 27, 2017, 12:51:56 pm
Not going to vote for Joseph because i'd rather slightly harm my statistical chances at victory than have a new player be a default random lynch because of deadline. It's too lame.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 27, 2017, 01:20:38 pm
Joseph is not new.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 27, 2017, 01:36:18 pm
Joseph is not new.

oh
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 27, 2017, 01:52:03 pm
Extend maybe...? holidays seemed to have (rightfully) drawn all of us away

No extension, we have already had a long day 1. It wasnít the holidays, no one wants to make cases or discuss.

The Joseph lynch is almost certain to not hit scum based the fact that there isnít really a case on him, and how long the wagon has existed before deadline with no one making a counter case or defending him.

Seanbean seems like a sad lynch but I would request a prod on seanbean and unless he says he will post, I would request replacement. Literally one post all day is unacceptable.

I suggest we either lynch gkrieg because I made a case on him I think is decent (he offered a poor shallow defense of ash seemingly without much research or care before he made the defense which suggests not town defending an unknown allignment player.

Or there is the case to be made for lynching robz I donít think he has been very towny at all today, he is potentially 1-Shot deathproof, which is very dangerous if he is active and scum.

The setup does allow for one nolynch without changing the number of mislynches we are allowed. This means a no lynch or a burning of robz 1-Shot deathproof are both okay options. The counter argument to this is that currently one prevented nightkill (via doc/rb/a ln active town robz) grants us an additional mislynch. If we no lynch a blocked nk no longer gives us an additional mislynch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 27, 2017, 01:59:11 pm
The case on Joseph is stronger than that on Gkrieg or Robz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 27, 2017, 01:59:32 pm
But then that's an extremely low bar.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 27, 2017, 02:11:49 pm
Extend maybe...? holidays seemed to have (rightfully) drawn all of us away

No extension, we have already had a long day 1. It wasnít the holidays, no one wants to make cases or discuss.

The Joseph lynch is almost certain to not hit scum based the fact that there isnít really a case on him, and how long the wagon has existed before deadline with no one making a counter case or defending him.

Seanbean seems like a sad lynch but I would request a prod on seanbean and unless he says he will post, I would request replacement. Literally one post all day is unacceptable.

I suggest we either lynch gkrieg because I made a case on him I think is decent (he offered a poor shallow defense of ash seemingly without much research or care before he made the defense which suggests not town defending an unknown allignment player.

Or there is the case to be made for lynching robz I donít think he has been very towny at all today, he is potentially 1-Shot deathproof, which is very dangerous if he is active and scum.

The setup does allow for one nolynch without changing the number of mislynches we are allowed. This means a no lynch or a burning of robz 1-Shot deathproof are both okay options. The counter argument to this is that currently one prevented nightkill (via doc/rb/a ln active town robz) grants us an additional mislynch. If we no lynch a blocked nk no longer gives us an additional mislynch.
Seanbean is a sad lynch, but if they're not playing, then them being here is no help either
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 27, 2017, 02:12:00 pm
I'm around til deadline
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 27, 2017, 02:52:03 pm
It is ? Oh dear.

BTW, Joseph pointing this out in this spot is another reason not to lynch him.

I donít think pointing out deadlines is a good reason to not lynch anyone. Going for the newbie by voting when they will probably get modkilled or replaced is though. It is like the ultimate cop out strategy.

Joseph was the main wagon. Him pointing that out is actively detrimental to his survival. Also I actually have a "case" (as much as one can have with how the day's gone) on seanbean... I don't think potential modkills should be expected or taken into account.

But you know, we could also lynch you, that'd be fine by me.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 27, 2017, 03:18:00 pm
Vote Count 1.7

gkrieg13(1): mcmcsalot
Joseph2302(4): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs, Robz888
seanbean(2): Joseph2302, Teproc
O (1): faust

Not Voting (6): ashersky, DatSwan, seanbean, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 28th at 7:00 PM.


Eevee has replaced AndrewisFTTW
Prod sent to seanbean

I extended the deadline an additional day due to lack of activity yesterday and player substitutions
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 27, 2017, 03:20:21 pm
yay fro deadline extensions!

I hope we'll get a replacement. In the meantime, people could vote for O.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 27, 2017, 03:32:19 pm
Sup guys!

I'll get home in a couple hours, and will start to read through the thread then. I'll be able to catch up tonight in preparation for tomorrow's deadline.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 27, 2017, 04:03:40 pm
vote: Robz

Low risk, high reward.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on December 27, 2017, 04:08:22 pm
vote: seanbean

don't really see a downside to this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 27, 2017, 06:32:57 pm
Thanks for the extension Arch.

vote: seanbean

don't really see a downside to this.

Well this is scummier than anything sean has done.

vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 27, 2017, 07:28:45 pm
mcmc seems the towniest. I liked his thinking on the gkrieg-case, but there were other instances where I thought gkriek looked towny to me, so I'm not very excited about that. Joseph becoming a prodder of others when he is the leading wagon makes me not want to lynch him. ash seems in his own class in terms of scumminess, but his role is of course problematic. Angry O seems a teeny bit towny (I still like the fun O more). Slight scumread on seanbean, scum has more incentive to not post (although this level of not posting is probably not very alignment-indicative). Why are people townreading IDPTG? I have no opinion on him, and feel like I'm missing something. chairs seems slightly towny.

No opinion on Robz, Galzria, Teproc, O or DatSwan.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 27, 2017, 07:30:47 pm
Ash being my only scumread is not great, but the way the day ran wasn't the most conducive for making substantive reads.

Can we get a good deadline scramble going? A lot can be achieved in a mere few hours when a lot of people get online at the same time and go crazy. With this many people alive, we could get really wild.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 27, 2017, 07:38:54 pm
I actually did find Robz slightly towny for something, just forgot what it was. Some joke or otherwise controversial thing I think he would be more likely to self-censor if he was scum. Super thin reads, just like most of the others.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2017, 09:06:12 pm
More time! Thatís good. I will resume usual activity in the morning.

I read Andrewís lack of activity as curious enough to be a possible scum indicator, but a replacement into higher activity Eevee (who I think is easier to read over the fullness of time anyway) makes me less inclined to lynch there.

Very hard to read seanbean. I believe he is an archetype friend who got roped in because he likes the theme? Could easily just be an overwhelmed newbie realizing mafia isnít his thing. I think this is indeed slightly more likely to happen to a scum newbie though than a town one. I do not think seanbean is a terrible Lynch, on these grounds, although it has the drawback of being un-informational. I definitely like this lynch more than the Joseph one, now that Iíve thought about it though.

Gkrieg is a higher risk / higher reward lynch. Itís a risk because Iíd rather not lost town gkrieg. But Mcmc is real sure of his case, and in these situations he ends up right more often than a lot of players. On the other hand I donít find his play quite so unquestionably townie. A gkrieg flip would tell me more about mcmc, which is a boon.

vote: gkrieg for now

 
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2017, 09:07:09 pm
Thanks for the extension Arch.

vote: seanbean

don't really see a downside to this.

Well this is scummier than anything sean has done.

vote: DatSwan

You think that wasnít just clumsy phrasing?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 27, 2017, 09:41:38 pm
What would you learn of mcmc if gkrieg flipped scum/town?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2017, 09:48:23 pm
What would you learn of mcmc if gkrieg flipped scum/town?

If gkrieg flipped scum, mcmc would be town for certain. If gkrieg flipped town, I would really think mcmc is scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 27, 2017, 10:39:47 pm
Saw the deadline extension and got drunk. I'll have a reads list by tomorrow.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 27, 2017, 11:09:28 pm
Saw the deadline extension and got drunk. I'll have a reads list by tomorrow.
My man!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 28, 2017, 12:26:46 am
mcmc seems the towniest. I liked his thinking on the gkrieg-case, but there were other instances where I thought gkriek looked towny to me, so I'm not very excited about that. Joseph becoming a prodder of others when he is the leading wagon makes me not want to lynch him. ash seems in his own class in terms of scumminess, but his role is of course problematic. Angry O seems a teeny bit towny (I still like the fun O more). Slight scumread on seanbean, scum has more incentive to not post (although this level of not posting is probably not very alignment-indicative). Why are people townreading IDPTG? I have no opinion on him, and feel like I'm missing something. chairs seems slightly towny.

No opinion on Robz, Galzria, Teproc, O or DatSwan.

Why is prodding people townie?  Itís like super easy to do as scum, and is more indicative of the player than anything.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 12:42:14 am
I meant prodding the town as a whole. I think scum, as a leading wagon, would be more likely to go after someone, hoping their partners would help fan the flames.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 04:34:29 am
Second time now that gkrieg misrepresents this argument as "prodding=town".

@Robz: Sure, but scum is generally clumsier when it comes to justifying votes.

At this point, I'd be happy to lynch Swan, gkrieg or sean. Could lynch Robz too, setting up (mis)lynches with the mcmc/gkrieg comment.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 06:27:30 am
Vote: Teproc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:41:41 am
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 09:28:40 am
Vote: Teproc

Why ?

Not sure about faust's reasoning, but for my part I heartily dispute the idea that I'm setting up subsequent lynches of any sort, and I resent your implication that that's what I'm doing. I said gkrieg being town would make mcmc scummier, and vice versa (well not vice versa... you know what I mean), and hey, that's absolutely true, can you even dispute it? You jumped on the comment and claimed it was scummy, when really it's just, you know, doing basic scum hunting. Of course a gkrieg flip says something about mcmc.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 11:33:50 am
Deadline day, 7.5 hrs to go I believe
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 11:37:38 am
Deadline day, 7.5 hrs to go I believe

Everyone is well aware. Why don't you react to some or any of the posts since your last visit?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 11:58:51 am
Deadline day, 7.5 hrs to go I believe

Everyone is well aware. Why don't you react to some or any of the posts since your last visit?
Okay so I think Teproc is towny.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 11:59:14 am
There, I've contributed more in that 1 post than half the people playing have all game
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 12:02:24 pm
There, I've contributed more in that 1 post than half the people playing have all game

why is he towny
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 12:13:02 pm
There, I've contributed more in that 1 post than half the people playing have all game

why is he towny
I just think he is, which is enough for me to not want to lynch him D1.

We should lynch out of all the people who've done nothing all week.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 12:14:22 pm
There, I've contributed more in that 1 post than half the people playing have all game

why is he towny
I just think he is, which is enough for me to not want to lynch him D1.

We should lynch out of all the people who've done nothing all week.

who has done nothing all week except for the actual new guy?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 12:45:48 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?

Not sure about faust's reasoning, but for my part I heartily dispute the idea that I'm setting up subsequent lynches of any sort, and I resent your implication that that's what I'm doing. I said gkrieg being town would make mcmc scummier, and vice versa (well not vice versa... you know what I mean), and hey, that's absolutely true, can you even dispute it? You jumped on the comment and claimed it was scummy, when really it's just, you know, doing basic scum hunting. Of course a gkrieg flip says something about mcmc.

It is not absolutely true, not even close. gkrieg flipping town would not make mcmc scummier to me in any way... town is on mislynches all the time.

Specifically, you saying "let's lynch gkrieg because mcmc believes in it and I think he's town but if he's wrong, well..." is super scummy. It's both absolving you of responsibility for the gkrieg lynch and totally setting up two mislynches : gkrieg and mcmc. Well, you know, that's assuming they're town, which who knows, but that's the way in which your thing was scummy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 12:46:25 pm
Pushing very hard for a mislynch is more townie than scummy on day 1 I would say, in general.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 01:02:24 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?

Not sure about faust's reasoning, but for my part I heartily dispute the idea that I'm setting up subsequent lynches of any sort, and I resent your implication that that's what I'm doing. I said gkrieg being town would make mcmc scummier, and vice versa (well not vice versa... you know what I mean), and hey, that's absolutely true, can you even dispute it? You jumped on the comment and claimed it was scummy, when really it's just, you know, doing basic scum hunting. Of course a gkrieg flip says something about mcmc.

It is not absolutely true, not even close. gkrieg flipping town would not make mcmc scummier to me in any way... town is on mislynches all the time.

Specifically, you saying "let's lynch gkrieg because mcmc believes in it and I think he's town but if he's wrong, well..." is super scummy. It's both absolving you of responsibility for the gkrieg lynch and totally setting up two mislynches : gkrieg and mcmc. Well, you know, that's assuming they're town, which who knows, but that's the way in which your thing was scummy.

Did you miss Mafia 107, where town!mcmc correctly fixated on gkrieg as scum very early on? If mcmc is wrong about gkrieg here, after being so right about gkrieg that other time--not that long ago--I'm saying to myself, what's different, is what's different that mcmc is now scum, that definitely could be. The whole "oh, but town players can make mistakes" thing is true in general but not always, and here's a good example of why that is.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 28, 2017, 01:02:52 pm
As promised:

1. mcmcsalot - Not sure.
2. ashersky - Town for now. The way he went about claiming Bowser reminds me of town!ash.
3. Galzria - I don't have much to back it up, but he seems towny.
4. DatSwan - Null. I don't like the tone of some of his posts, but that isn't much for me to base a read off.
5. Robz888 - He mentioned a read of seanbean as if it was something real and a couple other things that people have said. I also think he's vanilla scum, so I'm fine with the "lynch ash if Robz hammers" plan. Which of course backfires if it's vanilla!ash.
6. seanbean - Scummy. I believe new!town finds a way to post whereas new!scum might not know what to say and try to hide. However, the complete lack of other posts might invalidate that a bit.
7. Eevee - Didn't see much from Andrew, haven't formed an opinion of Eevee yet.
8. faust - Townish I guess.
9. Joseph2302 - scummy for the SK bit and meta argument.
10. gkrieg13 - I just did a reread and I already forgot why I found him scummy.
11. Teproc - Not sure
12. chairs - Not sure
14. O - Not sure

And before anyone calls me out on it, yes, I know that doesn't say a ton other than scumreading Robz. But it's what I've got. I'm at a training for a lot of today.

Pushing very hard for a mislynch is more townie than scummy on day 1 I would say, in general.

Eh. Disagree.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 01:05:15 pm
Pushing very hard for a mislynch is more townie than scummy on day 1 I would say, in general.

I don't know if that's true, I think certain scum players push very hard for Day 1 mislynches precisely because of the theory you outlined, they can just turn around be like "well, I was wrong, but town mislynches all the time, don't you know that, just ask Teproc."

I also don't know if mcmc is pushing *very* hard against gkrieg. Also also you seem pretty confident gkrieg would be a mislynch, or at least, you keep phrasing it that way by default.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 01:15:00 pm
I think this is townRobz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 01:21:37 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Your scumread on DatSwan looks fake. Your are very comfortable for scum: willing to lynch all candidates except one (Joseph), without much of a reason why. You voted DatSwan for what he said about his seanbean vote when for all I can tell you voted him for the very same reasons, just not being explicit. oh, there's also the fact that you pushed one of the strongest potential PRs without any solid reasoning.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 01:25:38 pm
6. seanbean - Scummy. I believe new!town finds a way to post whereas new!scum might not know what to say and try to hide. However, the complete lack of other posts might invalidate that a bit.
this is also ridiculous reasoning, as Idplay manages to figure out himself in the second part of the quote, but somehow still puts a "scummy" label.

I would also be willing to lynch here I suppose.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 01:28:32 pm
Um, Idplay, want to do some target announcing?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 01:30:40 pm
Idplay is contributing more than Joseph, although one could make the argument that Joseph's lack of useful content isn't alignment indicative.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 01:49:56 pm
Vote: IDPTG

I like fausts's case on teproc the second best.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 01:52:11 pm
I think the scummiest thing Idplay did there was leave without placing a vote. Everybody should be voting at this point.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 01:57:17 pm
I think the scummiest thing Idplay did there was leave without placing a vote. Everybody should be voting at this point.
That is scummy though. So Vote: IDPTG since the wagon on seanbean doesn't seem to be happening
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 28, 2017, 02:02:18 pm
Teproc is towny.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 28, 2017, 02:57:57 pm
Vote Count 1.8

gkrieg13(2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Joseph202(3): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs
Robz888 (1): ashersky
Teproc (1): faust
IDPTG (2): Eevee, Joseph2302
DatSwan(1): Teproc
seanbean(1): DatSwan

Not Voting (3): seanbean, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 28th at 7:00 PM.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 03:08:52 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?

Not sure about faust's reasoning, but for my part I heartily dispute the idea that I'm setting up subsequent lynches of any sort, and I resent your implication that that's what I'm doing. I said gkrieg being town would make mcmc scummier, and vice versa (well not vice versa... you know what I mean), and hey, that's absolutely true, can you even dispute it? You jumped on the comment and claimed it was scummy, when really it's just, you know, doing basic scum hunting. Of course a gkrieg flip says something about mcmc.

It is not absolutely true, not even close. gkrieg flipping town would not make mcmc scummier to me in any way... town is on mislynches all the time.

Specifically, you saying "let's lynch gkrieg because mcmc believes in it and I think he's town but if he's wrong, well..." is super scummy. It's both absolving you of responsibility for the gkrieg lynch and totally setting up two mislynches : gkrieg and mcmc. Well, you know, that's assuming they're town, which who knows, but that's the way in which your thing was scummy.

Did you miss Mafia 107, where town!mcmc correctly fixated on gkrieg as scum very early on? If mcmc is wrong about gkrieg here, after being so right about gkrieg that other time--not that long ago--I'm saying to myself, what's different, is what's different that mcmc is now scum, that definitely could be. The whole "oh, but town players can make mistakes" thing is true in general but not always, and here's a good example of why that is.

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't particularly recall that part of M107, no.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 03:10:25 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Your scumread on DatSwan looks fake. Your are very comfortable for scum: willing to lynch all candidates except one (Joseph), without much of a reason why. You voted DatSwan for what he said about his seanbean vote when for all I can tell you voted him for the very same reasons, just not being explicit. oh, there's also the fact that you pushed one of the strongest potential PRs without any solid reasoning.
My vote on seanbean keeps being misrepresented as a vote for inactivity, when it is a vote for claiming immediately without hesitation, something that was actually discussed so you might think people would know about it.

Also, what's scummy is not the vote or the reason for it, but the awkwardness of the justification and the timing. Two people can post the exact same thing but one can be scummy and the other townie just because of context. But you know that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 03:11:05 pm
I guess my vote is not very useful where it is.

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 03:29:02 pm
Pushing very hard for a mislynch is more townie than scummy on day 1 I would say, in general.

really the only townie thing d1 is lynching scum
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 03:30:39 pm
Vote: Ashersky

bold argumentative ashersky was scum ashersky with my sample size n = 1.

i don't like the way his wagon died entirely randomly.

These arbitrary "eh I guess I could vote for Gkrieg" votes seem fishy. Don't see why people are townreading teproc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:38:50 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Your scumread on DatSwan looks fake. Your are very comfortable for scum: willing to lynch all candidates except one (Joseph), without much of a reason why. You voted DatSwan for what he said about his seanbean vote when for all I can tell you voted him for the very same reasons, just not being explicit. oh, there's also the fact that you pushed one of the strongest potential PRs without any solid reasoning.
My vote on seanbean keeps being misrepresented as a vote for inactivity, when it is a vote for claiming immediately without hesitation, something that was actually discussed so you might think people would know about it.

Also, what's scummy is not the vote or the reason for it, but the awkwardness of the justification and the timing. Two people can post the exact same thing but one can be scummy and the other townie just because of context. But you know that.
You're right about your reasons for seanbean of course. I forgot because well there were holidays in between and I still don't have a lot of time here. I don't agree with your reasoning and I think voting for seanbean is bad, but you did give a reason.

I could vote Idplay, but it's not really a high-value target. If that guy is a PR, it's one that gives zero benefit to scum. On the other hand, as scum, we will get info from him and there's a good chance that he will die.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 28, 2017, 03:39:27 pm
I actually think Joseph is scummy here. I could vote IDPTG as well.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 03:39:34 pm
Vote: Ashersky

bold argumentative ashersky was scum ashersky with my sample size n = 1.

i don't like the way his wagon died entirely randomly.

These arbitrary "eh I guess I could vote for Gkrieg" votes seem fishy. Don't see why people are townreading teproc

What's your sample size?

I agree that Teproc's vote was a little fishy. It was very "please forget I did something that got me in trouble, I'm moving my vote" of him.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:40:13 pm
Vote: Ashersky

bold argumentative ashersky was scum ashersky with my sample size n = 1.

i don't like the way his wagon died entirely randomly.

These arbitrary "eh I guess I could vote for Gkrieg" votes seem fishy. Don't see why people are townreading teproc
Hm, I agree with O. Well, ash is generally bold argumentative, but the rest is fine.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:41:13 pm
I actually think Joseph is scummy here. I could vote IDPTG as well.
Ok then.

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 03:41:26 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Your scumread on DatSwan looks fake. Your are very comfortable for scum: willing to lynch all candidates except one (Joseph), without much of a reason why. You voted DatSwan for what he said about his seanbean vote when for all I can tell you voted him for the very same reasons, just not being explicit. oh, there's also the fact that you pushed one of the strongest potential PRs without any solid reasoning.
My vote on seanbean keeps being misrepresented as a vote for inactivity, when it is a vote for claiming immediately without hesitation, something that was actually discussed so you might think people would know about it.

Also, what's scummy is not the vote or the reason for it, but the awkwardness of the justification and the timing. Two people can post the exact same thing but one can be scummy and the other townie just because of context. But you know that.
You're right about your reasons for seanbean of course. I forgot because well there were holidays in between and I still don't have a lot of time here. I don't agree with your reasoning and I think voting for seanbean is bad, but you did give a reason.

I could vote Idplay, but it's not really a high-value target. If that guy is a PR, it's one that gives zero benefit to scum. On the other hand, as scum, we will get info from him and there's a good chance that he will die.

Hm, I've been forgetting to check the PR possibilities of various lynch options.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 03:41:36 pm
Vote: Ashersky

bold argumentative ashersky was scum ashersky with my sample size n = 1.

i don't like the way his wagon died entirely randomly.

These arbitrary "eh I guess I could vote for Gkrieg" votes seem fishy. Don't see why people are townreading teproc

What's your sample size?

I agree that Teproc's vote was a little fishy. It was very "please forget I did something that got me in trouble, I'm moving my vote" of him.

m100

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 03:42:10 pm
I actually think Joseph is scummy here. I could vote IDPTG as well.

Why is Joseph scummy? Joseph is probably my least favorite of the options mentioned recently.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:43:40 pm
Vote: Teproc

Why ?
Your scumread on DatSwan looks fake. Your are very comfortable for scum: willing to lynch all candidates except one (Joseph), without much of a reason why. You voted DatSwan for what he said about his seanbean vote when for all I can tell you voted him for the very same reasons, just not being explicit. oh, there's also the fact that you pushed one of the strongest potential PRs without any solid reasoning.
My vote on seanbean keeps being misrepresented as a vote for inactivity, when it is a vote for claiming immediately without hesitation, something that was actually discussed so you might think people would know about it.

Also, what's scummy is not the vote or the reason for it, but the awkwardness of the justification and the timing. Two people can post the exact same thing but one can be scummy and the other townie just because of context. But you know that.
You're right about your reasons for seanbean of course. I forgot because well there were holidays in between and I still don't have a lot of time here. I don't agree with your reasoning and I think voting for seanbean is bad, but you did give a reason.

I could vote Idplay, but it's not really a high-value target. If that guy is a PR, it's one that gives zero benefit to scum. On the other hand, as scumtown, we will get info from him and there's a good chance that he will die.
EBWOP
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 03:43:51 pm
Well, Joseph being a potential roleblocker does make him a better lynch than IDPlay's potential weak visitor. I see.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:45:51 pm
I actually think Joseph is scummy here. I could vote IDPTG as well.

Why is Joseph scummy? Joseph is probably my least favorite of the options mentioned recently.
Why?

Basically I did not like Joseph's latest vote and neither the way he's been clamoring for LAL and lynching seanbean without providing much substance himself.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 28, 2017, 03:47:31 pm
6. seanbean - Scummy. I believe new!town finds a way to post whereas new!scum might not know what to say and try to hide. However, the complete lack of other posts might invalidate that a bit.
this is also ridiculous reasoning, as Idplay manages to figure out himself in the second part of the quote, but somehow still puts a "scummy" label.

I would also be willing to lynch here I suppose.

Did I vote for sean? I find the behavior scummy, that's why I put that. I don't think he's scum because he hasn't posted and that muddies the behavior for me. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:48:06 pm
Well, Joseph being a potential roleblocker does make him a better lynch than IDPlay's potential weak visitor. I see.
Yes, seeing how this D1 went, I think going by potential Prs isn't half bad. Things would be different if I had some solid scumreads, but well Christmas threw me off the game and I don't expect to have time to get back in until the new year has started.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 28, 2017, 03:49:10 pm
6. seanbean - Scummy. I believe new!town finds a way to post whereas new!scum might not know what to say and try to hide. However, the complete lack of other posts might invalidate that a bit.
this is also ridiculous reasoning, as Idplay manages to figure out himself in the second part of the quote, but somehow still puts a "scummy" label.

I would also be willing to lynch here I suppose.

Did I vote for sean? I find the behavior scummy, that's why I put that. I don't think he's scum because he hasn't posted and that muddies the behavior for me. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
If you don't think he's scum, then why did you call him "scummy" in that reads list?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 03:51:18 pm
Well, Joseph being a potential roleblocker does make him a better lynch than IDPlay's potential weak visitor. I see.
Yes, seeing how this D1 went, I think going by potential Prs isn't half bad. Things would be different if I had some solid scumreads, but well Christmas threw me off the game and I don't expect to have time to get back in until the new year has started.

wat
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 28, 2017, 03:51:32 pm
6. seanbean - Scummy. I believe new!town finds a way to post whereas new!scum might not know what to say and try to hide. However, the complete lack of other posts might invalidate that a bit.
this is also ridiculous reasoning, as Idplay manages to figure out himself in the second part of the quote, but somehow still puts a "scummy" label.

I would also be willing to lynch here I suppose.

Did I vote for sean? I find the behavior scummy, that's why I put that. I don't think he's scum because he hasn't posted and that muddies the behavior for me. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
If you don't think he's scum, then why did you call him "scummy" in that reads list?

My opinion changed by the time I finished writing and I didn't go back and change it. It was a post done while at a work training.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 03:53:58 pm
Well, Joseph being a potential roleblocker does make him a better lynch than IDPlay's potential weak visitor. I see.
Yes, seeing how this D1 went, I think going by potential Prs isn't half bad. Things would be different if I had some solid scumreads, but well Christmas threw me off the game and I don't expect to have time to get back in until the new year has started.

Sure, that make sense to me.

Let's all keep in mind we need EIGHT to lynch, not the usual seven. And seven has been hard enough lately.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 28, 2017, 04:08:39 pm
If I am a PR, I'm going to target one of: gkrieg, mcmc, or faust unless people have a problem with that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on December 28, 2017, 04:10:17 pm
I actually think Joseph is scummy here. I could vote IDPTG as well.

Why is Joseph scummy? Joseph is probably my least favorite of the options mentioned recently.
Why?

Basically I did not like Joseph's latest vote and neither the way he's been clamoring for LAL and lynching seanbean without providing much substance himself.

This but mainly the last part. Pushing for seanbeans lynch with not good reasoning.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 04:13:35 pm
If I am a PR, I'm going to target one of: gkrieg, mcmc, or faust unless people have a problem with that.

We can discuss this but I think to be truly useful you might consider dropping your list to two. That's what the Hider did after his original plan went south in Mafia 100, right?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 28, 2017, 04:16:45 pm
vote: Robz

Good additional points from others supporting.  Thanks.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:06:59 pm
Appalling lack of activity from about half the players, given we have two hours.

Vote: Joseph

I don't see what other viable choice we have.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:08:01 pm
And I am the only person viewing the thread right now!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:10:04 pm
So I've been checking the Who's Online thing, and it showed Idplay working on a post maybe half an hour ago. Now he's gone and there's no post.

Scum definitely self edits more than town. I definitely start posts only to scrap them... way more often when I am scum.

I know he's not a good lynch because of PR, but that's materially scummy to me.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 05:11:34 pm
Appalling lack of activity from about half the players, given we have two hours.

Vote: Joseph

I don't see what other viable choice we have.
About an hour ago, you said I was a bad lynch target.
And I'm the only person online it seems.
So lynching me won't happen
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 28, 2017, 05:12:57 pm
So I've been checking the Who's Online thing, and it showed Idplay working on a post maybe half an hour ago. Now he's gone and there's no post.

Scum definitely self edits more than town. I definitely start posts only to scrap them... way more often when I am scum.

I know he's not a good lynch because of PR, but that's materially scummy to me.
I agree that's kind of scummy. Vote: IDPTG (if I wasn't already)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:13:10 pm
Appalling lack of activity from about half the players, given we have two hours.

Vote: Joseph

I don't see what other viable choice we have.
About an hour ago, you said I was a bad lynch target.
And I'm the only person online it seems.
So lynching me won't happen

The PR argument makes you more appealing. You're still not my favorite lynch. But you have the most votes.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:13:49 pm
So I've been checking the Who's Online thing, and it showed Idplay working on a post maybe half an hour ago. Now he's gone and there's no post.

Scum definitely self edits more than town. I definitely start posts only to scrap them... way more often when I am scum.

I know he's not a good lynch because of PR, but that's materially scummy to me.
I agree that's kind of scummy. Vote: IDPTG (if I wasn't already)

Unfortunately I think you were already voting for him, which means IDplay isn't close to as viable as you, even if I join you. Would be great to hear from other players!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 28, 2017, 05:21:56 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop. also people keep moving between lal and joseph. i like ash's robz vote and i cant tell if he is actually early helpfull town!robz or took his time and then came in and was very productive after I threw some shade towards him and he was scum worried i would rally a lynch around him.

want to lynch gkrieg >>> galz/robz
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 05:31:28 pm
I prefer gkrieg over Joseph, but IDPTG over both. Not feeling Robz.

I'll be here until the deadline.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 05:32:10 pm
Don't know if lynching Galz makes sense, it's like a random lynch scum can not participate in if he is scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 28, 2017, 05:43:59 pm
I'm here, but am already voting the one player who has had the best case made against them: Joseph.

I'll vote: Joseph, Teproc, Mcmc, Ash or IDPTG

Won't vote: Faust, Robz, Gkrieg, Eevee

Everybody else is meh.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 05:50:44 pm
I'd vote for ash.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 05:59:18 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

Don't know if lynching Galz makes sense, it's like a random lynch scum can not participate in if he is scum.

I like last minute random Day 1 lynches but I doubt we'd get the numbers for this in which case it's just asking for No Lynch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:01:49 pm
I'm around. Will lynch:

gkrieg, DatSwan, sean

Won't lynch:

mcmc, ash

I guess everyone else is meh. Probably won't lynch Eevee, I liked his first post.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:02:27 pm
And by "meh", I mean "will lynch if needed". I don't think PRs should be taken into account aside from letting people time to claim.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:04:01 pm
I guess I would lynch Swan as well. He's been really flying under my radar for whatever reason.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:29:06 pm
30 minutes
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:34:37 pm
Vote count is currently

Vote Count

Joseph (5): gkrieg, Galz, chairs, faust, Robz
gkrieg (2): mcmc, Teproc
IDPTG (2): Eevee, Joseph
Robz (1): ash
seanbean (1): DatSwan
ash (1): O

Not Voting (2): sean, IDPTG

I guess I'll take a Joseph lynch over nolynch. Though I'd much rather gkrieg or even IDPTG.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:35:42 pm
vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:40:27 pm
Is it really just Eevee and me around ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:40:40 pm
Because if that's the case, even Joseph isn't doable.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 28, 2017, 06:41:28 pm
Vote Count 1.9

gkrieg13(3): mcmcsalot, Teproc, Eevee
Joseph202(5): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs, Faust, Robz888
Robz888 (1): ashersky
IDPTG (1): Joseph2302
seanbean(1): DatSwan
ashersky(1): O

Not Voting (2): seanbean, IDontPlayThisGame

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end December 28th at 7:00 PM.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 06:46:49 pm
I'm around, but I'm already on Joseph.

By the way I've checked Who's Online A LOT and IDPlay is frequently on, checking the thread, not posting. Exactly what a worried scum would be doing. He hasn't even cast a vote! I would totally move there but we don't have the numbers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:47:52 pm
I'm around, but I'm already on Joseph.

By the way I've checked Who's Online A LOT and IDPlay is frequently on, checking the thread, not posting. Exactly what a worried scum would be doing. He hasn't even cast a vote! I would totally move there but we don't have the numbers.

I get that, but sometimes it doesn't mean much. I was doing a fair bit of watching Who's Online at certain key points of Lost Mafia and it was often misleading.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:48:28 pm
I do think it's a point against him. I would lynch him over Joseph as well, but we'd need a lot more people for that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 06:48:42 pm
This is why I was trying to corral everyone to vote hours ago, by the way. IDPlay showed up and has been around but didn't vote. Ash contributed a worthless vote on me and then disappeared. O cast an equally pointess ash voted and left. And where is DastSwan? This is a bit odd for him.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 06:49:18 pm
I'm around, but I'm already on Joseph.

By the way I've checked Who's Online A LOT and IDPlay is frequently on, checking the thread, not posting. Exactly what a worried scum would be doing. He hasn't even cast a vote! I would totally move there but we don't have the numbers.

I get that, but sometimes it doesn't mean much. I was doing a fair bit of watching Who's Online at certain key points of Lost Mafia and it was often misleading.

Fair enough I guess.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 06:50:40 pm
Teproc and Eevee, you really should move over to Joseph though, in case someone else random checks in last minute and we can lynch. Odds of four people doing that--what it would take to lynch gkrieg--are much less likely.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:51:43 pm
That IDPTG didn't vote is actually really damming, at least if he doesn't show up in the next few minutes.

PPE: Sure, I guess nothing else has a ny shot now.

vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:52:14 pm
You are right.

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:53:06 pm
Would be great if we could lynch IDPTG somehow.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 06:53:44 pm
I guess we have four votes there with Joseph already on him, so we'd need four more ? Seems extremely unlikely
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 06:54:45 pm
Yeah I mean I would move if the votes were there.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 28, 2017, 06:55:42 pm
Need one more
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 06:57:38 pm
This was a disappointing day. Let's do better tomorrow!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 28, 2017, 06:59:29 pm
vote: joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Teproc on December 28, 2017, 07:00:07 pm
Got there... nice ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 07:01:51 pm
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2017, 07:02:03 pm
Well that destroys the far-fetched scum!mcmc and scum!joseph theory I was beginning to formulate! Destroys it in a good way, obviously.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on December 28, 2017, 07:02:14 pm
This sucks for Joseph, as far as I can tell he got lynched for being the only available wagon because town screwed up.

Hope he's scum!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: O on December 28, 2017, 07:03:16 pm
the vote counts as long as it's before he closes the thread right?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Archetype on December 28, 2017, 07:03:21 pm
Thread Locked
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 28, 2017, 07:08:28 pm
Vote Count 1.FINAL

Joseph2302( 8 ): gkrieg13, Galzria, chairs, Faust, Robz888, Teproc, Eevee, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): ashersky
IDPTG (1): Joseph2302
seanbean(1): DatSwan
ashersky(1): O

Not Voting (2): seanbean, IDontPlayThisGame

With 14 alive it took 8 to lynch. Day 1 will end RIGHT NOW.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: Archetype on December 28, 2017, 07:14:39 pm
Joseph2302 was thrown off the side of the map. He flutter jumped and threw eggs to gain greater height, but couldn't manage to grab the ledge. Maybe someday Yoshi will get a better recovery.


Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was Yoshi the Good Roleblocker.

Night 1 Start!
Day 2 will resume December 31st at 7:00 PM (deadline extended 1 day due to New Years)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on December 31, 2017, 07:06:25 pm
faust had already used his double jump and was preparing to vanish to gain some additional height but accidentally used his chain. Easy mistake to make, to be fair.

faust has been killed. He was Sheik the Vanilla Good


Day 2 Start!


Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (12): mcmcsalot, ashersky, Galzria, DatSwan, Robz888, seanbean, Eevee, gkrieg13, Teproc, chairs, IDontPlayThisGame, O

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM (deadline extended one day due to New Years).

Thread Unlocked
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 31, 2017, 07:25:34 pm
So let me get this straight. The case on me at the end of the day was that I've been able to view the thread but not post?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 31, 2017, 07:32:37 pm
So let me get this straight. The case on me at the end of the day was that I've been able to view the thread but not post?

You were able to post, it said you were in the middle of writing a post, but that post did not come. And it would have been helpful to hear from you, or at least get a vote from you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 31, 2017, 07:33:43 pm
So let me get this straight. The case on me at the end of the day was that I've been able to view the thread but not post?

You were able to post, it said you were in the middle of writing a post, but that post did not come. And it would have been helpful to hear from you, or at least get a vote from you.

When you mentioned that post, was your post talking about it very soon after?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 31, 2017, 07:35:37 pm
So let me get this straight. The case on me at the end of the day was that I've been able to view the thread but not post?

You were able to post, it said you were in the middle of writing a post, but that post did not come. And it would have been helpful to hear from you, or at least get a vote from you.

When you mentioned that post, was your post talking about it very soon after?

Donít remember. Think it was maybe an hr later.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 31, 2017, 07:36:59 pm
So let me get this straight. The case on me at the end of the day was that I've been able to view the thread but not post?

You were able to post, it said you were in the middle of writing a post, but that post did not come. And it would have been helpful to hear from you, or at least get a vote from you.

When you mentioned that post, was your post talking about it very soon after?

About half an hour you said. So 16:40ish forum time. That's when I was learning CPR. Which means I wasn't on a break, so yeah, I wasn't able to finish writing it.

PPE 1: I went back and looked at it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 31, 2017, 07:42:52 pm
Learning CPR huh? Let me guess, you didnít kill anyone last night because you were too busy saving a basket of drowning puppies.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on December 31, 2017, 07:54:36 pm
Learning CPR huh? Let me guess, you didnít kill anyone last night because you were too busy saving a basket of drowning puppies.

No, I (thankfully) haven't had to use it. I work with a population that has heavy drug use so we need to be prepared but it's not usually called for. An ambulance can usually get there in time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Archetype on December 31, 2017, 07:55:49 pm
EFHW has replaced seanbean
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on December 31, 2017, 08:03:18 pm
No, the case on you (IDPTG) is that you didn't vote and didn't come back before deadline. And that you weren't particularly townie.

Thanks EFHW !
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on December 31, 2017, 08:05:07 pm
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on December 31, 2017, 10:17:02 pm
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).
first

Mewtwo is a pretty powerful role. You sure you want to ask him to verify if he is active or not? If he does, regardless of the results, it means he will probably die at night... So whatever you find out needs to be absolutely more valuable then the potential of his active role surviving.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 12:02:00 am
Hi everyone, still catching up. Happy New Year! Ball just dropped  :)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 01, 2018, 12:23:28 am
No, the case on you (IDPTG) is that you didn't vote and didn't come back before deadline. And that you weren't particularly townie.

That's fair.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 01, 2018, 12:26:46 am
pretty much out till tomorrow nightish
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 02:20:33 am
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: chairs on January 01, 2018, 03:47:09 am
Hey, EFHW!

Hope you're a bit more active than sean <3.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 06:35:52 am
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 06:37:10 am
As your first target I mean.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 08:58:49 am
So the Joseph lynch was awful, so clearly a town wagon based on the way the day went. Really sucks we had to sit throug a day of andrew and seanbean doing nothing which allowed scum to hang back and do nothing forcing us to lynx joseph. Glad to have eevee and efhw though.

I am honestly not sure if the Joseph lynch was superior to a no-lynch based on numbers but I fotbto the thread so late, I saw we needed one more and figured we can always use our one no-lynch at a later date.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 09:00:45 am
Gkrieg, galz, and robz are easily the scummiest of members on Josephís wagon though honestly I think scum would have been fine lynching no one and itís very likely one just hung off wagon.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 01, 2018, 10:12:33 am
Didnít feel great lynching my biggest town read. Letís do better today.

Interested to hear what EFHWís fresh pair of eyes thinks of the game.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 10:28:46 am
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 12:34:02 pm
Didnít feel great lynching my biggest town read. Letís do better today.

Interested to hear what EFHWís fresh pair of eyes thinks of the game.
I'm caught up in reading and have a few nascent theories that need more developing before being shared. I can say I have townreads on ashersky and mcmc.

I don't like playing by "Who's Online" and accept IDPTG's explanation of his apparent lurking.

faust is a good player, so I don't celebrate his death but I'm glad the O-faust feud is over for now.


Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 12:44:23 pm
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.

I'm not asking you to claim your first target, I'm asking you to claim if it was me. Obviously I'm claiming aftr this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 12:51:15 pm
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.

Agree. If the first target is evil, then they know their Oracle answer was inverted, which negates that part of his power.

Teproc - What value did you see in gkrieg disclosing this? Are you saying you tried to protect faust? My next question was going to be why didn't you, so that would fit.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 12:52:25 pm
You might not want to answer that, I suppose.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 01:01:00 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 01:06:24 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.
Maybe you already know that gkrieg is scum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 01:07:40 pm
Short-lived town read. vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 01:35:15 pm
I took mcmc to mean "dangerous" as in "dangerous if scum got them".
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 01:47:58 pm
I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.

Agree. If the first target is evil, then they know their Oracle answer was inverted, which negates that part of his power.

Teproc - What value did you see in gkrieg disclosing this? Are you saying you tried to protect faust? My next question was going to be why didn't you, so that would fit.

Teproc, I understand you wanting to know if you were redirected, but you realize that it would also tell scum that their oracle answer is true or false, which completely takes away from my role.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 02:01:04 pm
I do but I kinda think if you redirected me then you're probably scum, and if you didn't it doesn't matter, so...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 01, 2018, 02:46:41 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.

A Weak Visitor dies if they target scum. Scum!gkrieg ensures that happens. So no, it's not directly killing, but killing nonetheless.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 01, 2018, 02:50:43 pm
That said, I doubt it happens because I don't see why scum would risk wasting a shot on a minor PR.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 01, 2018, 03:30:55 pm
Hi.  Happy new year.  Expect low activity this week.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 03:35:19 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.

Gkrieg targets weak visitor, gkrieg redirects any action weak visitor takes and makes them target scum. Weak visitor dies and we donít know why. This is in contrast to galz(fox) who needs gkrieg to target him in order to redirect the weak visitor onto scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 03:45:39 pm
Short-lived town read. vote: mcmc

Curious what caused said town read to go away? My analyzing of ways all the prís could negatively effect other prs, my high early activity which dropped off as the day went on and no one supported my gkrieg or robz votes and were content to wait for a Joseph default or no-lynch? Or was it my last minute vote for Joseph to prevent I lunch which puts me in unnecessary heat today (many people werenít around, scum!mcmc could easily not posted). Just curious
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 03:47:46 pm
Or is it because the first and second votes on said town wagon were two of the people I consistently said were scummy?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 03:48:43 pm
Oh and in the words of the ufcís Bruce Buffer aaaaaaaand stiiiiiiil vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 01, 2018, 04:43:08 pm
Not a fan of gkrieg claiming just yet.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 05:24:30 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.

A Weak Visitor dies if they target scum. Scum!gkrieg ensures that happens. So no, it's not directly killing, but killing nonetheless.

Right, but he didn't say scum!gkrieg, just gkrieg's power is dangerous to town. I'll look at the context some more when I'm at a computer.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 05:27:19 pm
so people keep mentioning not lynching based off pr's but noone mentions gkriegs pr is still the most dangerous to town since he can insta kill our weak cop.

I assume you meant the weak visitor, in which case this isn't really true, since it only works if we do indeed have a weak visitor and that's no guarantee.

How does gkrieg insta-kill the weak visitor? It doesn't look like he could kill anyone directly.

Gkrieg targets weak visitor, gkrieg redirects any action weak visitor takes and makes them target scum. Weak visitor dies and we donít know why. This is in contrast to galz(fox) who needs gkrieg to target him in order to redirect the weak visitor onto scum.
Ok, I did not think of that. I can read the post as not scummy now. unvote
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 05:28:32 pm
Short-lived town read. vote: mcmc

Curious what caused said town read to go away? My analyzing of ways all the prís could negatively effect other prs, my high early activity which dropped off as the day went on and no one supported my gkrieg or robz votes and were content to wait for a Joseph default or no-lynch? Or was it my last minute vote for Joseph to prevent I lunch which puts me in unnecessary heat today (many people werenít around, scum!mcmc could easily not posted). Just curious
Why so sarcastic? I thought you had scumslipped.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 05:31:42 pm
K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 05:40:14 pm
I don't think his not answering confirms that he targeted you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 01, 2018, 06:15:01 pm
1 doesn't work. Lightning Rod redirects the NK too.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 01, 2018, 06:20:47 pm
vote: o

He def targets Tep a fair amount of the time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 01, 2018, 06:34:43 pm
I didnít shoot faust.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 06:55:50 pm
K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If Iím vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you arenít a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 01, 2018, 07:07:12 pm
K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

You being roleblocked by O seems like a simpler explanation to me. And I could very well see town!O (calamitously) deciding to block you last night. I don't know why you'd be particularly unlikely to perform the kill.

O, did you block Teproc?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 07:17:04 pm
K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If Iím vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you arenít a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.

My first question didn't work for vanilla!you, but I then asked you to specifically claim whether or not you targeted me. As you're doing it right now, you see how that's not a problem to answer, right ?

@Robz Active players don't typically do NKs, unless strongman/ninja is involved, don't you agree ? I'm a somewhat likely investigation target in general, or at least I assume I am when scum. Also, the possibility that I'd have ascetic at my disposal makes roleblocking me pretty bad.

I guess Andrew is now Eevee, not EFHW, got confused there. And IDPTG is right about Lightning Rod, I think I remember playing with a version that didn't affect kills but this one does.

gkrieg claiming not to have targeted me now doesn't change my mind. In fact, that gkrieg chose to answer when the parameters of the question really didn't change, why ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 07:18:00 pm
I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 01, 2018, 07:29:14 pm
I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

Well now you're arguing for lynching gkrieg, even if O theoretically disproves the thing causing you to suspect him? That's kind of scummy on its own.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 01, 2018, 07:39:02 pm
In the meantime, I have a case to make on mcmc.

So, mcmc neighborized me on Day 1, we had a couple IRL days of chatting. To say that he was acting suspiciously in this thread would be an understatement. The big thing is that he continuously goaded me to reveal to him whether I actually had 1-shot Deathproof, something I'm sure scum would really like to know.

I said as much in our thread, and then he started gradually claiming to have a stronger and stronger scum read on me, which read to me as a defensive move.

Now he's still listing me in his top suspects, but he's not voting for me. I think if town!mcmc had such a strong scum read on me, he would be voting for me. And if he was town suspecting I might be scum but not convinced enough to vote, I would have expected him to re-neighborize me today. He did not.

I agree that he's been acting townie-seeming in the main thread, but I don't know that scum!mcmc is incapable of doing that. He's not played a game in a while, this is his only game, he's refreshed, he's in top shape to try to pull this off.

Vote: mcmcsalot
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 01, 2018, 07:59:14 pm
I suspected gkrieg before. I was hoping this would convince other people.

I really don't expect town!O to have roleblocked me anyway, but we'll see.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 08:26:43 pm
Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 08:36:54 pm
Scum!Teproc could be saying he was roleblocked to cover for not having protected faust.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 01, 2018, 08:45:13 pm
I guess I do have to agree with Teproc that the  lynchpool for today needs to be {gkrieg, O, Teproc}, unless someone can think of another way faust could have died. Maybe add in Eevee  if scum used his one vig shot to double kill faust. Doubtful but theoretically possible.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 01, 2018, 08:52:14 pm
Vote Count 2.1

Teproc (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg(2): mcmcsalot, Teproc
O (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888

Not Voting (7): Galzria, DatSwan, O, Eevee, chairs, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 01, 2018, 10:25:20 pm
I am still out of town until tomorrow. But to summarize:
1) I did not use lighning rod last night
2) I do not think that GK usining a redirect on Teproc makes him skummy, whether or not that happened.
3) The Teproc I know is different then the Teproc I am playing with... and I have only played with Town!Teproc

Vote:Teproc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2018, 10:33:25 pm
Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town itís a Good Power, if scum itís an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesnít change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as ďI have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I donít know you are townĒ. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: chairs on January 01, 2018, 10:44:03 pm
Kinda leaning towards vote: robz here tbh.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 10:57:28 pm
K, whatever, I've said enought for anyone to figure it out anyway.

I'm a JOAT and I used my doctor shot to protect faust last night. FOur things (assuming flavor claims were truthful) could explain faust's death from there

1) DatSwan using Lightning Rod. Going to go ahead and rule out town!Swan doing this. Scum!Swan might, but it wouldn't be too hard to figure out from other potential PRs... so it doesn't seem like a great scum play either. Feel free to say it if you have a strong reason to believe this happened.

2) Andrew (now EFHW, One-Shot Vigilante that only works on Vanilla) shooting faust. There are a number of reasons why this is a very unlikely play from either alignment.

3) Universal Backup turned Roleblocker O targeting me. O did suspect me day 1, but if I'm scum I'm either
a) Vanilla and probably not doing the kill
b) JOAT using Ascetic

So I don't think town!O roleblocks me. Scum!O might, to ensure that the faust kill goes through.

And then there's gkrieg. I can't really see a reason for town!gkrieg to target me because again, it's either
a) I'm vanilla not doing the kill because active players with a decent amount of suspicion don't do the kill
b) I'm a JOAT and I'm using Ascetic.

scum!gkrieg totally does have incentive to divert me, because it ensures the faust kill AND it disrupts my tracking if I choose to do that, might even get some confusion later on.

So I think our lynchpool today should be {gkrieg, O}. I guess that'd be {gkrieg, O, Teproc} for everyone else. gkrieg refusing to answer my second question indicates to me that he did target me. Town!gkrieg who's vanilla doesn't mind claiming he didn''t target me, and neither does town!gkrieg who targeted someone else. And again, I don't see why town!gkrieg targets me, so...

vote: gkrieg

PPE: 3

Your analysis is wrong. If Iím vanilla, I want scum to be scared of my PR and think there is a possibility that their oracle is flipped. Also you arenít a town read for me, so why would I claim if I targeted you?

I did not target you last night.

My first question didn't work for vanilla!you, but I then asked you to specifically claim whether or not you targeted me. As you're doing it right now, you see how that's not a problem to answer, right ?

@Robz Active players don't typically do NKs, unless strongman/ninja is involved, don't you agree ? I'm a somewhat likely investigation target in general, or at least I assume I am when scum. Also, the possibility that I'd have ascetic at my disposal makes roleblocking me pretty bad.

I guess Andrew is now Eevee, not EFHW, got confused there. And IDPTG is right about Lightning Rod, I think I remember playing with a version that didn't affect kills but this one does.

gkrieg claiming not to have targeted me now doesn't change my mind. In fact, that gkrieg chose to answer when the parameters of the question really didn't change, why ?

I didnít want to claim to have not targeted you because I had forgotten your role. Also, I realized that claiming to not have targeted you doesnít tell mafia if their oracle answer is inverted or not. I hadnít thought it through all the way as Iím still V/LA.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 01, 2018, 10:58:15 pm
I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

How have I been scummy?  Is it still because of the ash thing?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 01, 2018, 11:12:54 pm
Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town itís a Good Power, if scum itís an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesnít change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as ďI have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I donít know you are townĒ. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.

There's no such thing as being "overly concerned" about your alignment, that's the entire game. You were overly concerned about whether I was scum-reading you, though. Transparently so. You said something at one point (I'm paraphrasing) about being surprised that I sounded like I might think you were scum. You were nervous and tying to ferret out information from me the entire thread... not information about my alignment, but information about what whether I was onto you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 06:45:27 am
I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

How have I been scummy?  Is it still because of the ash thing?

Thatís early d1 stuff, however your pushing of the Joseph wagon which is now a confirmed town makes your late day 1 play scummy.

Time to reread some things.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 10:39:55 am
Scum!Teproc could be saying he was roleblocked to cover for not having protected faust.

So Iíve been mulling this idea over as well and my thoughts have rested on this. Teproc was not under much suspicion yesterday, many people finding him townie, scum!teproc gains from this a potential mislynch of town!gkrieg who could be inactive or even worse gkrieg could have taken an action that is provable (redirecting me for example). Scum!teproc would not be under any suspicion for not doctoring Faust because without him bringing this up likely no one would push for him to reveal if he is even active.

Scum!gkrieg has strong insentive to redirect town!teproc onto a vanilla scum who took no action last night. If teproc doctors it protect the vanilla scum from a potential vig shot and if he is tracking someone he sees nothing. The risk there is if town!teproc tracked someone who took an action and teproc became aware of that, gkrieg would be completely caught. I think here itís just a case of risk assessment and it was more likely teproc doctored then tracked, and itís unlikely he becomes aware his track target took an action.

The presence of O throws a wrench into all of this as it increases the chance both scum!teproc and scum!gkrieg do the things described above. For scum!teproc, if we lynch gkrieg who flips town he can tomorrow say well o must have blocked me. For scum!gkrieg similarly when town!teprocs action fails he can say it wasnít me must have been O. On a balance note, I doubt O is both scum and active. A scum UB varies wildly in how much it can help or hurt scum (gaining a vig adds kill power, gaining a death proof adds literal lynch numbers vs. gaining a weak cop or tracker who need to be lying about results and potentially clearing townies)

All that being said combined with my scum read of gkrieg yesterday, combined with him being a primary proponent of the awful Joseph lynch, combined with robz who is a scum read of mine voting gkrieg only briefly yesterday (because of my great ability to catch scum!gkrieg in his words) and then ditching that vote to move to Joseph I am pretty happy leaving my vote on gkrieg.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 10:44:30 am
Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town itís a Good Power, if scum itís an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesnít change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as ďI have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I donít know you are townĒ. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.
Why do you want to burn his deathproof? He will just get nk'd that night if he's town.  Is it to prevent possible scum!him from having it?

I think I see. You were trying to get town!Robz to sacrifice his power -- IF he has it --  for the cause and to prove he wasn't scum by agreeing to the plan. I can see why he was irked. What have you concluded from it?

What was there in what you said that he would need to know your alignment? Your alignment isn't really relevant to the value of the plan for town.

Why did you pick Robz? It was N0, before any claims. His being your brother creates complications for the rest of us in interpreting what the two of you report about the conversation.

Ppe: Long post from mcmc I didn't read yet.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 10:56:02 am
Robz, can you while only paraphrasing demonstrate to us what you mean by continuously goading? How many times, how directly?

I also don't see why scum!mcmc would be so intensely interested in your deathproof,  or so blatant in probing about it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 11:05:02 am
All that being said combined with my scum read of gkrieg yesterday, combined with him being a primary proponent of the awful Joseph lynch, combined with robz who is a scum read of mine voting gkrieg only briefly yesterday (because of my great ability to catch scum!gkrieg in his words) and then ditching that vote to move to Joseph I am pretty happy leaving my vote on gkrieg.

You also ditched gkrieg to move to Joseph, because that's what had to happen to get a lynch.

Robz, can you while only paraphrasing demonstrate to us what you mean by continuously goading? How many times, how directly?

I also don't see why scum!mcmc would be so intensely interested in your deathproof,  or so blatant in probing about it.

This is not really something I feel like doing, and is also a recipe for getting in to trouble. Not sure what the rules here are, I'd rather just make the entire thread publicly available, is that an option Arch?

Scum mcmc wants to know if I'm going to actually die if they take a shot/lynch me, I think that's pretty useful info. I'm not sure if "blatant" is the word I would use, it was more like he couldn't help himself. He just kept saying "if" you are Deathproof we should do this, you should think this, "if" you are Deathproof, in such rapid succession that it was almost like whatever I would say in response would give it away.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 02, 2018, 12:02:04 pm
I'm behind a page, but a thought just occured to me: I'm pretty suspicious of people who are pushing for lynches based on (potential) roles instead of reads.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 02, 2018, 12:30:55 pm
I'm behind a page, but a thought just occured to me: I'm pretty suspicious of people who are pushing for lynches based on (potential) roles instead of reads.

I'm pushing gkrieg for both reasons. And to answer him: no it's not about your ash defense gkrieg, it's about you generally being scummy in ways I can't really define. Yes, that is not helpful, but there you are.

I'm unsure about the mcmc v Robz thing. mcmc neighborizing Robz is what he'd do as either alignment I believe. I tend to think rolefishing is not something scum actually does all that much, but I do buy that town:Robz would be freaked out by it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 12:39:20 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 12:44:03 pm
I think Teproc is telling the truth? Not 100% though. He could have had a tracker shot blocked
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 02, 2018, 12:44:10 pm
On the topic of Robz and mcmc, my opinion has reversed from yesterday. Robz is looking quite towny to me, mcmc increasingly more scummy (but these reads are tied to each other somewhat - getting to see the QT might change things).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 12:47:35 pm
I'm missing a part while rereading -- did Robz!MCMC have conversations about the game, post setup + roles, IRL?. That's pretty bad form.

Not trying to accuse anything underhanded here -- I get the temptation. But it always leads to shitty outside read influences that should not be in the game
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 12:48:31 pm
Ah --- MCMC is neighborizer
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 01:01:02 pm
I would be happy to make the qt public. My burning of robz 1-short dp as could be seen in the qt is 199% not based primarily on the fact that 1-shot dp is strong it has to do with the way the numbers and lynches work out.

With 14 players 11 town, 3 mafia assuming 1 mislynch and  1 nk.
D1 11/3, D2 9/3, D3 7/3, D4 5/3, a mislynch on D4 loses the game. 3 mislynches allowed.

My analysis began with what happens if we no lynch.
D1 11/3, D2 10/3, D3 8/3, D4, 6/3, D5 4/3, a mislynch in D5 loses the game. Still 3 mislynches allowed.

Then when analyzing everyoneís powers I realized burning robz 1-shot dp has the same effect as a no-lynch.

So if active scum!robz poses an EXTREME threat to town that is undeniable, if town robz is quite helpful but not as dangerous, itís just a number game, adding an additional lynch required to end scum is much worse for town than one blocked night kill is good for town.

So In my mind the knowledge scum 1-shot deathproof robz does not exist may be worth it to town in exchange for burning a town 1-shot deathproof robz dp. Add in the fact that we had potential doctors and redirector and a potential cop and tracker an additional night of night actions could prove vastly more useful than a day of low activity and a necessity lynch of Joseph due to said low activity.

Had robz offered himself we would still have a town roleblocker in Joseph, we would know we are not dealing with a death proof scum, and we might still have Faust who was very active.

Now on top of all of that, never did I think oh because robz isnít willing to burn his 1-shot dp which he might not even have he must be scum. Never, I understood his concern and I believe that would come across in our qt as well.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 01:07:15 pm
So on to the scum read I have in robz, it was not stronger then my read on gkrieg yesterday but it grew as the day went on. I agree that the game is about ďbeing concerned about alignmentsĒ robz game off to me in the qt as overly hemming and hawing about man Iím just not sure I can trust you because you might be scum, I agree with what your saying but man you could just be scum trying to put me. To me I felt like I am aware you canít trust me, Iím aware you have to take things Iím saying with a grain of salt, why do you feel the need to keep reminding me you canít trust me. Overcompensating and wanting to make me absolutely sure he doesnít know my alignment is how it came across.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 01:09:04 pm
Now that O has confirmed blocking teproc I donít think this lets gkrieg off the hook for his scummines yesterday and his pushing of the Joseph wagon, but I think we should be back to not limiting the lynch pool to teproc/gkrieg/O and look into robz and galzria as well who alongside gkrieg created the Joseph wagon and has been very much less active then normal.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 01:46:35 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...

Iím confused by your explanation of why you blocked teproc. Are you aware he has a 1shot doc, one shot track, and one shot ascetic. Also are you aware


where does the joatís 1-Shot ascetic go in the resolution chain and is it targetable on someone or only self targeted?
It occurs in the Blocking phase of the action resolution (so after Sidekick but before Redirector). It is not a targeted action - the user simply 'becomes' Ascetic for that night a la Falco's ability.

Meaning teproc can doctor someone, track them, or make himself immune to non killing actions. So why again did you block him?

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 02, 2018, 01:57:37 pm
Well. I doubt mcmc and Robz are both scum. I don't really see how this benefits them if they are.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 01:58:46 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...

Iím confused by your explanation of why you blocked teproc. Are you aware he has a 1shot doc, one shot track, and one shot ascetic. Also are you aware


where does the joatís 1-Shot ascetic go in the resolution chain and is it targetable on someone or only self targeted?
It occurs in the Blocking phase of the action resolution (so after Sidekick but before Redirector). It is not a targeted action - the user simply 'becomes' Ascetic for that night a la Falco's ability.

Meaning teproc can doctor someone, track them, or make himself immune to non killing actions. So why again did you block him?

it seems i misread ascetic's ability
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 02:04:01 pm
Quote
1-shot Ascetic (Block all non-killing actions)

i took this literally. did not read your clarification question
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 02:11:03 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Archetype on January 02, 2018, 02:11:39 pm
This is not really something I feel like doing, and is also a recipe for getting in to trouble. Not sure what the rules here are, I'd rather just make the entire thread publicly available, is that an option Arch?
No
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 02:18:20 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

Did I miss Faust's claim he wasn't a PR? He was a much more likely doctor.

its low odds that he 1) uses the shot and 2) hits the correct target

Teproc was the biggest PR scumread I had. Faust and Ashersky were also scumreads, but neither of their PRs make sense to block. the kill is probably? a 1/3 shot (doubtfully 1/4) even after hitting scum so I felt like blocking harmful PRs + possible scumkills was smarter than just scumkills

I did suggest I didn't find Teproc towny yesterday.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 02:19:29 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

The nk is the most anti-town ability in the game. 
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 02:21:55 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

The nk is the most anti-town ability in the game.

Good thing I used my roleblock on one of my three scumreads then
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 02:40:28 pm
I would be happy to make the qt public. My burning of robz 1-short dp as could be seen in the qt is 199% not based primarily on the fact that 1-shot dp is strong it has to do with the way the numbers and lynches work out.

With 14 players 11 town, 3 mafia assuming 1 mislynch and  1 nk.
D1 11/3, D2 9/3, D3 7/3, D4 5/3, a mislynch on D4 loses the game. 3 mislynches allowed.

My analysis began with what happens if we no lynch.
D1 11/3, D2 10/3, D3 8/3, D4, 6/3, D5 4/3, a mislynch in D5 loses the game. Still 3 mislynches allowed.

Then when analyzing everyoneís powers I realized burning robz 1-shot dp has the same effect as a no-lynch.

So if active scum!robz poses an EXTREME threat to town that is undeniable, if town robz is quite helpful but not as dangerous, itís just a number game, adding an additional lynch required to end scum is much worse for town than one blocked night kill is good for town.

So In my mind the knowledge scum 1-shot deathproof robz does not exist may be worth it to town in exchange for burning a town 1-shot deathproof robz dp. Add in the fact that we had potential doctors and redirector and a potential cop and tracker an additional night of night actions could prove vastly more useful than a day of low activity and a necessity lynch of Joseph due to said low activity.

Had robz offered himself we would still have a town roleblocker in Joseph, we would know we are not dealing with a death proof scum, and we might still have Faust who was very active.

Now on top of all of that, never did I think oh because robz isnít willing to burn his 1-shot dp which he might not even have he must be scum. Never, I understood his concern and I believe that would come across in our qt as well.

I wasn't scumreading you for the above analysis. It was several posts later when you said something like "well, I don't actually think we should do this until you tell us if you are 1-shot DP..." in a very leading way. That's when I started getting scum vibes from you. And then you later concede that if you were scum, that's exactly what you'd be doing!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 02:42:03 pm
Now that O has confirmed blocking teproc I donít think this lets gkrieg off the hook for his scummines yesterday and his pushing of the Joseph wagon, but I think we should be back to not limiting the lynch pool to teproc/gkrieg/O and look into robz and galzria as well who alongside gkrieg created the Joseph wagon and has been very much less active then normal.

Okay, so did you hammer Joseph so you could, to quote another player, setup a subsequent mislynch among the people you claim originated it?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 02:42:29 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

Nah, faust was the main potential doctor.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 02:43:34 pm
O, can you explain exactly what you thought ascetic did?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 02, 2018, 02:47:07 pm
Anyway, we know O is responsible for blocking Teproc. This means scum!gkrieg would have had no reason to avoid answering Teproc's question--I think scum!gkrieg is likely to have answered it right away, knowing he has nothing to hide. Way more likely IMO that town!gkrieg puts up the resistance we saw from him.

I also fully believe town!O could make this error. I mean, it's a terible thing, shame on you, but per Littlefinger I always try to imagine what's the worst thing for town that can happen, and it's usually that thing which happened.

Teproc seems likely to be town, though. Town, town, town, all three.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 02:50:42 pm
literally what is says

"block all non killing actions"

for everyone
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 03:14:14 pm
Snipped
I wasn't scumreading you for the above analysis. It was several posts later when you said something like "well, I don't actually think we should do this until you tell us if you are 1-shot DP..." in a very leading way. That's when I started getting scum vibes from you. And then you later concede that if you were scum, that's exactly what you'd be doing!

Robz misconstruing here. I gave robz the same analysis I posted about number of mislynches and explained how in the long run as far as day one plans go, burning robz deathproof if active is probably net good for town. I then explained that I did not think it was worth blindly lynching robz solely based on the theory that if heís active itís a net positive play. So yes I hoped town robz if active saw the benefits to burning his dp and proving his towniness and if scum Iím gonna keep pushing his lynch regardless. Iím also not an idiot and understand if I was scum and robz town I would hopefully have put in as much pro town effort to come to the same conclusion and be trying to force robz to offer himself up on a platter.

Hence why day one my read on robz was not super strong, it was as he continued pandering and being worried about trusting me while also making statements like he should probably take my gkrieg read seriously because of how well I read him in a past game but then not really publicly supporting that case and ditching it to jump on the Joseph wagon at 5.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2018, 03:18:41 pm
Oh an vote: robz

Also just think that if town scum is probably worried about robz, they would love a lynch, no one picked up on my robz vote day one at all.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 02, 2018, 03:19:39 pm
So O misread Ascetic, which was the whole reason I thought town!O would definitely not roleblock me ?

Great. Just great. Read the freaking rules, people.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 02, 2018, 03:20:31 pm
Also, O could be lying... I don't know though, playing dumb doesn't seem like scum!O ? Could be wrong.

Oh well, I still like lynching gkrieg anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 02, 2018, 03:25:30 pm
Anyway, we know O is responsible for blocking Teproc. This means scum!gkrieg would have had no reason to avoid answering Teproc's question--I think scum!gkrieg is likely to have answered it right away, knowing he has nothing to hide. Way more likely IMO that town!gkrieg puts up the resistance we saw from him.

That makes sense, loathe as I am to admit it.

Unfortunately for you, that means...

vote: Robz
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 04:06:11 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

Nah, faust was the main potential doctor.
But faust couldn't protect himself and was a very likely nk target. Teproc was the only dr who could protect faust.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 04:19:30 pm
Also, O could be lying... I don't know though, playing dumb doesn't seem like scum!O ? Could be wrong.

Oh well, I still like lynching gkrieg anyway.

as you were mason with me i'm pretty confident you can confirm not reading shit is part of my town MO  8)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 02, 2018, 09:24:22 pm
Vote Count 2.2

Teproc (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan
O (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): chairs, mcmcsalot, Teproc

Not Voting (5): Galzria, O, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 10:14:21 pm
Is Galz vla?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 10:15:21 pm
Also, O could be lying... I don't know though, playing dumb doesn't seem like scum!O ? Could be wrong.

Oh well, I still like lynching gkrieg anyway.

as you were mason with me i'm pretty confident you can confirm not reading shit is part of my town MO  8)
What's your scum!MO?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 10:58:48 pm
Also, O could be lying... I don't know though, playing dumb doesn't seem like scum!O ? Could be wrong.

Oh well, I still like lynching gkrieg anyway.

as you were mason with me i'm pretty confident you can confirm not reading shit is part of my town MO  8)
What's your scum!MO?

it used to be similar, but I botched it pretty hard in that one scum game I had since returning. Generally came off as forced and unconvincing.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 02, 2018, 10:58:59 pm
How new is O? Would he be unaware that faust would be the likely nk target?

O, you haven't said why you thought Teproc was scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 02, 2018, 11:02:52 pm
How new is O? Would he be unaware that faust would be the likely nk target?

O, you haven't said why you thought Teproc was scum.

I'm tied for oldest around here -- check Mafia 1  :P

Teproc's near explanationless gkrieg vote felt convenient. I said as much here.

These arbitrary "eh I guess I could vote for Gkrieg" votes seem fishy. Don't see why people are townreading teproc
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 02, 2018, 11:51:48 pm
Is Galz vla?

More that I'm enjoying my last few days off before work begins again on the 4th. :P

Sorry - I'm up to date on everything. I'll post thoughts and opinions tomorrow.

The odds that scum target Faust to kill, town!Teproc targets Faust to Doctor, and town!O targets Teproc to Roleblock seem pretty extreme. There's a lot of people in this game. And we must remember this IS classified as Normal, not Role Madness. So Joseph (PR) dies, passing his power to O (PR), who uses it on Teproc (PR), who targeted Faust. And in the midst of this, Mcmc and Robz have clearly claimed that Mcmc is a PR.

That's 4 PR's. And that all collides N1? Not impossible. But also reeeeeally not likely.

Starting at the back:

If O is scum and Teproc town:
- Then Teproc was blocked or redirected. Gkrieg could be in play here as a potential O partner, or O could've inherited Roleblocker. Killing one potential Doctor while blocking/redirecting another is a solid scum play.

If O is town and Teproc is scum:
- Then Teproc never intended (or couldn't) to try and save Faust. So why drag Gkrieg into this? Because he needed to know if the Oracle result got flipped. So he fake claimed the Doctor on Faust to try and get Gkrieg to spill beans. This points towards town!Gkrieg, as it's unlikely a play they're making together. The problem is... what if Gkrieg says he didn't redirect Teproc, and O claims to have not blocked anybody? That sets up a Teproc/O/Gkrieg lynch scenario because somebody must be lying. Which brings us to:

If O is scum AND Teproc is scum:
The play is to claim to have Doctored Faust (Teproc), trying to pull information from Gkrieg on if he's active or not. In the event Gkrieg refuses to respond or says he didn't redirect, O can come in and claim to have blocked Teproc. "I didn't know the roles" is an easy cover for O to make here to explain away a small detail.

And then there's Robz and Mcmc. Robz has read townie to me so far this game. Mcmc has not. I'm inclined to believe that Mcmc IS an active PR though, and unless he targeted Faust as well last night then there should be somebody else in game that can confirm that he is. It's quite possible they're both town. It's unlikely they're both scum. Right now I'm inclined to lynch neither of them.

From D1, I was town on Gkrieg, null-ish on O, and scummy on Teproc. Faust too found Teproc scummy, which says something as his reads are usually pretty good. I think with what's happened today I still prefer a vote: Teproc.

I don't believe that all of {Joseph, O, Teproc, Mcmc} are PR's. And given Joseph is confirmed town, I believe there's at least one scum amongst the remainder there. I don't believe lynching Mcmc makes sense today, and of the two remaining I find Teproc more suspicious.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 02, 2018, 11:52:29 pm
Is Galz vla?
Sorry - I'm up to date on everything. I'll post thoughts and opinions tomorrow.

I'm bad at this lol.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 02:24:39 am
Glad to see I was right about O.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 09:40:03 am
vote: Galz

How is any of this unlikely ? There are only 2 PRs being claimed here (myself and O). I guess there's mcmc too, that's 3... how is that even close to RMM ? You including Joseph in this is ludicrous since Joseph has flipped... there being 4 PRs in a 13-player game (including O who may very well be scum claiming entirely truthfully) is nowhere near RMM or unbelievable. But you know that, so I can only assume this incredibly forced line of reasoning is not genuine because you're scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 03, 2018, 10:13:21 am
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 03, 2018, 10:57:10 am
Glad to see I was right about O.

Sounds like you're posting to the speccy!  I know you're v/la, so maybe that's how it is right now.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 03, 2018, 11:06:37 am
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 03, 2018, 11:19:30 am
I'm feeling Vote: O as well. His actions make much more sense for scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 11:42:54 am
I don't agree, I think O's actions make lots of sense for town!O, right down to not understanding what ascetic does.

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did. I'm venturing a guess that the O/Teproc thing is a giant town on town debacle, with gkrieg's refusal to claim making sense for town!him as well (why me pointing this out made Teproc think I'm scum I don't quite understand, but it doesn't make me read Teproc as scum).

I don't really know what to think of Galz, alignment wise, I've got a big null read on him. He could be scum. I'm worried he's calling the me/mcmc situation correctly because he's trying to buddy me. On the other hand, maybe he's calling it right because he's town and he's reading things correctly. That's what I want it to be!

Still confident on my mcmc case. I could also lynch somewhere in the chairs or DatSwan department, those guys are lurking.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 11:45:36 am
Oh, and IDP has done nothing to mitigate my Day 1 suspicion, and he may even be in "hard to lynch because he's scum" territory, but I guess his PR possibility works against wanting to lynch him.

Also I fully believe Arch would put like a bunch of PRs in this game, he only said there's at least one VT. I think it would be a little nuts to have fewer than 3 VTs, but beyond that... so yes, I think Galz is wrong about that. I think Arch likes crazy PR action, didn't he invent the DoMafia game?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 12:07:59 pm
You pointing that Gkrieg's recation made more sense as town didn't make me think you were scum, it simply made me agree, and you were the other person I suspected the most. Make sense ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 12:08:51 pm
I agree the scum!O scenarios make sense enough on a PR level, but the way he went about it... less so. Scum!O can just hang back and let me push gkrieg all day/game by claiming not to have targeted me, seems like a much easier way to do things no ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 12:17:28 pm
You pointing that Gkrieg's recation made more sense as town didn't make me think you were scum, it simply made me agree, and you were the other person I suspected the most. Make sense ?

Yes, that makes sense, thank you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 01:01:04 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

You assume that I should make two assumptions about alignment that completely contradict the reads I made yesterday.

You also assume I should default think all of this when I learned I was Roleblocker only the night of, in the middle of holiday season


Beyond that, there's some odd circular logic in what you're proposing. You claim it was obvious to me that Teproc would Doctor Faust, and that scum would NK Faust, and that I'm lying about the low odds in my mind. You then claim that implies I'm scum. Why would I run such a ridiculously stupid gambit, putting myself in the hotseat like that? If was as omniscient as you claim, it would be clear to me that blocking Teproc would either be useless or would be net harmful. There's loads of WIFOM in your argument in that I'm smart enough to make all the deductions which you have so brilliantly made after the fact (truly amazing deductive skills)... but not smart enough to keep myself out of the hotseat after making those deductions.


Actually I have another theory -- that you aren't considering the alignment assumptions you make in your analysis because you know their alignments.


P.S.:
my math major background cries at the bastardization of the meaning of the words "logical" and "illogical" that you perpetuate.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 01:08:46 pm
oh, throw in another one:

After assuming Teprocs alignment, and then assuming that he is actually a PR, I should then assume that he choses the Doctor instead of the Tracker (more likely) or Ascetic (less likely) ability.

There is some magical levels of hindsight bias here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:04:23 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:06:55 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

I could vote O as well. I ended on Teproc because at the end of it I have a bigger scum read on him PR related stuff aside, and Faust was also scum reading him which is worth something.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:07:57 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

Yes.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:14:13 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

why is MCMC relevant here though?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:20:46 pm
vote: Galz

How is any of this unlikely ? There are only 2 PRs being claimed here (myself and O). I guess there's mcmc too, that's 3... how is that even close to RMM ? You including Joseph in this is ludicrous since Joseph has flipped... there being 4 PRs in a 13-player game (including O who may very well be scum claiming entirely truthfully) is nowhere near RMM or unbelievable. But you know that, so I can only assume this incredibly forced line of reasoning is not genuine because you're scum.

My point, as Eevee noted, is that it's highly unlikely that:

{Joseph, Teproc, O, Mcmc} are all PR's
&
{Joseph, Teproc, O, Faust!NK} all collided NIGHT 1
&
{Joseph, Teproc, O, Mcmc} are all town

----------

What it boils down to is that I don't believe that all 4 of you are both {PR, Town}. As the entire series of events surrounding Faust's kill are highly suspect {Joseph dies -> O Inherits PR -> O Blocks Teproc -> Teproc fails to Doctor Faust -> Scum kill Faust), I'm more inclined to lynch between you and O than Mcmc (who, at a very least, can have his PR confirmed). I scum read you more than O, but that's not to say I find O townie. If people would prefer I'm good with that lynch too.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:22:37 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

why is MCMC relevant here though?

He's relevant simply to the argument of {Joseph, Mcmc, Teproc, O} all being both {Town, PR} in a 13 player normal game seems unlikely.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:25:06 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

why is MCMC relevant here though?

He's relevant simply to the argument of {Joseph, Mcmc, Teproc, O} all being both {Town, PR} in a 13 player normal game seems unlikely.

the roles are pretty low impact, and I bet scum has at least 2, probs 3 PRs. Not sure I'd agree even if the result wasnt pointing a finger at me
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:28:17 pm
More importantly why is MCMC being able to confirm he's a... neighborizer... at all relevant here?

he can confirm his role but do you think I could be lying about being a roleblocker even if I was scum? Why would I? I consider myself mostly confirmed here too.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:32:05 pm
You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

This is all a fine defense if you're town. But if you're scum (and Teproc Town):

1) Yes, you knew that.
2) Yes, you know that.
3) No, you didn't know that, but you had to block somebody.
4) You would be blocking Teproc anyway. What's to fear?
5) That's an ok argument. Aside from DatSwan (irrelevant) and Gkrieg, who could interrupt this chain?

You're right that from a town!O perspective this all doesn't add up. But it kinda does from a scum!O perspective.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:36:27 pm
You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

This is all a fine defense if you're town. But if you're scum (and Teproc Town):

1) Yes, you knew that.
2) Yes, you know that.
3) No, you didn't know that, but you had to block somebody.
4) You would be blocking Teproc anyway. What's to fear?
5) That's an ok argument. Aside from DatSwan (irrelevant) and Gkrieg, who could interrupt this chain?

You're right that from a town!O perspective this all doesn't add up. But it kinda does from a scum!O perspective.

Huh?

His argument is that since town!O wouldn't have roleblocked Teproc, since he should know all of this.
My argument is that his argument doesn't hold up that town!O should have known all of this. The conclusion being that it's not alignment indicative, not that it must be towny.

I'm not ""proving"" my towniness. I'm ""disproving"" a ""proof"" of my scuminess.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 02:37:04 pm
This is such pseudo-statistical bullshit. I could say "well it's very unlikely that all of {any group of 6 players} are town, so we must lynch there !" There's nothing unlikely at all in what's being claimed here... if anything strikes you as unlikely go ahead and point it out, but juust putting random things in a bundle and saying "this is all unlikely taken together" is nonsensical.

PPE: 2
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 02:38:25 pm
Galz, you're missing that full Tracker is possible in the game (EFHW).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:39:41 pm
More importantly why is MCMC being able to confirm he's a... neighborizer... at all relevant here?

he can confirm his role but do you think I could be lying about being a roleblocker even if I was scum? Why would I? I consider myself mostly confirmed here too.

If you're scum I think you're telling the truth. The play to kill one Doctor and RB another is decently strong as scum. It makes that whole interaction make sense. The only outlying piece is that Teproc also guessed correctly at Doctoring Faust, which isn't unreasonable.

Scum!O {PR}
Town!Teproc {PR}
Town!Joseph {PR}
??!Mcmc {PR}

Isn't all that farfetched. All 4 of you being town is. Dropping Mcmc (as he's irrelevant here), it's still a bit farfetched that all 3 of {O, Joseph, Teproc} are both {Town, PR} and collided with the scum NK N1, which has been my argument from the start. Not that you can't all be PR's. Just that it's highly unlikely that you're all both PR's AND town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:40:44 pm
Galzria's being quite atypically sloppy today. He completely missed the mark on what my response meant and is doing weird stuff with MCMC's role confirmation on already dubious probability chains

PPE: now was with MCMC.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:41:18 pm
You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

This is all a fine defense if you're town. But if you're scum (and Teproc Town):

1) Yes, you knew that.
2) Yes, you know that.
3) No, you didn't know that, but you had to block somebody.
4) You would be blocking Teproc anyway. What's to fear?
5) That's an ok argument. Aside from DatSwan (irrelevant) and Gkrieg, who could interrupt this chain?

You're right that from a town!O perspective this all doesn't add up. But it kinda does from a scum!O perspective.

Huh?

His argument is that since town!O wouldn't have roleblocked Teproc, since he should know all of this.
My argument is that his argument doesn't hold up that town!O should have known all of this. The conclusion being that it's not alignment indicative, not that it must be towny.

I'm not ""proving"" my towniness. I'm ""disproving"" a ""proof"" of my scuminess.

Sorry, taken out of context. I missed most of EFHW's argument on that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:43:03 pm
More importantly why is MCMC being able to confirm he's a... neighborizer... at all relevant here?

he can confirm his role but do you think I could be lying about being a roleblocker even if I was scum? Why would I? I consider myself mostly confirmed here too.

If you're scum I think you're telling the truth. The play to kill one Doctor and RB another is decently strong as scum. It makes that whole interaction make sense. The only outlying piece is that Teproc also guessed correctly at Doctoring Faust, which isn't unreasonable.

Scum!O {PR}
Town!Teproc {PR}
Town!Joseph {PR}
??!Mcmc {PR}

Isn't all that farfetched. All 4 of you being town is. Dropping Mcmc (as he's irrelevant here), it's still a bit farfetched that all 3 of {O, Joseph, Teproc} are both {Town, PR} and collided with the scum NK N1, which has been my argument from the start. Not that you can't all be PR's. Just that it's highly unlikely that you're all both PR's AND town.

It's a 1/3600 chance that you posted with :41 seconds on the F.DS timer and that I posted with :44.

I'm pretty sure we're colluding IRL to post with those times.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 02:48:50 pm
This is such pseudo-statistical bullshit. I could say "well it's very unlikely that all of {any group of 6 players} are town, so we must lynch there !" There's nothing unlikely at all in what's being claimed here... if anything strikes you as unlikely go ahead and point it out, but juust putting random things in a bundle and saying "this is all unlikely taken together" is nonsensical.

PPE: 2

You're completely disregarding the point of what makes it unlikely. It's not "some random grouping of players". It's a grouping that follows an unlikely series of events.

Your argument is that {Town!PR} Joseph got lynched, and {Town!PR} O inherited his power, then choose to block {Town!PR} Teproc, who just so happened to be attempting to Doctor Town!Faust, who scum were also killing.

THAT'S not a reasonable scenario of events on N1 where there are 12 people alive. The odds that all of you are both active PR's and town with no insight into the rest of that chain and yet it all falls together like that is ridiculous.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 02:52:07 pm
This is such pseudo-statistical bullshit. I could say "well it's very unlikely that all of {any group of 6 players} are town, so we must lynch there !" There's nothing unlikely at all in what's being claimed here... if anything strikes you as unlikely go ahead and point it out, but juust putting random things in a bundle and saying "this is all unlikely taken together" is nonsensical.

PPE: 2

You're completely disregarding the point of what makes it unlikely. It's not "some random grouping of players". It's a grouping that follows an unlikely series of events.

Your argument is that {Town!PR} Joseph got lynched, and {Town!PR} O inherited his power, then choose to block {Town!PR} Teproc, who just so happened to be attempting to Doctor Town!Faust, who scum were also killing.

THAT'S not a reasonable scenario of events on N1 where there are 12 people alive. The odds that all of you are both active PR's and town with no insight into the rest of that chain and yet it all falls together like that is ridiculous.

Can you make a statistical argument as to why any one of the possibilities with scum are actually more likely?

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 02:55:45 pm
Including Joseph in this is ludicrous to start with as he's not an unknown. It's like saying it's unlikely this exact group of players would be playing a game of mafia together or something.

Besides, the only unreasonable thing is that O misread Ascetic. Which, maybe he didn't and he's just scum, but everything else is pretty obvious stuff: faust was an obvious NK target (powerful PR on one of the most respected town players), which made my decision relatively easy (it's much easier to guess the kill than the killer in general)... and then O targeting me is only surprising because of the Ascetic thing. O was clearly suspicious of me on D1.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 02:56:31 pm
The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 03:01:27 pm
i want to point out that i just took the text literally... if ascetic was a Dominion card, the card would be executed by my interpretation.

still my bad tho
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 03:01:58 pm
The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 03:04:23 pm
The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!

I'd guesstimate 6 town PRs vs 3 scum PRs actually?
Actually.. there could even be 4 scum. That would pretty easily justify loading town PRs.


the town PRs are super weak, minus the doctor/tracker. It's not like we're playing with cops here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 03:05:58 pm
but really it's not like I'm sold on Teproc being town. He easily could have shot his tracker shot and known he was interrupted.

It's just I don't see a convincing argument for town to reduce the lynch pool like that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 03:15:16 pm
The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!

I'd guesstimate 6 town PRs vs 3 scum PRs actually?
Actually.. there could even be 4 scum. That would pretty easily justify loading town PRs.


the town PRs are super weak, minus the doctor/tracker. It's not like we're playing with cops here.

If that's indeed the setup then this will once again be my last game here for some while. I got sick of Normal classed games being RMM after Modern Community before. There's an expectation set forth when you classify games, and it's the mod breaking trust with the players to present something different.

Until proven wrong, I'll continue to operate under the assumption that the game is actually setup like it's classified. 13 players, 3-4 town PR's, 1-2 scum PR's, and about 50% vanilla.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 03:17:59 pm
That's your prerogative but I can't help but think of what early setups were often like and chuckle.

And I don't know why you would read "it's guaranteed there is at least one vanilla" and draw the conclusion that it's going to be 50%+ vanilla
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 03:21:22 pm
That's your prerogative but I can't help but think of what early setups were often like and chuckle.

And I don't know why you would read "it's guaranteed there is at least one vanilla" and draw the conclusion that it's going to be 50%+ vanilla

The conclusion was drawn based on the classification, not that statement. There's a reason these guidelines exist.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 03:25:53 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 03, 2018, 03:36:53 pm
Vote Count 2.3

Teproc (3): gkrieg13, DatSwan, Galzria
O (3): ashersky, EFHW, Eevee
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (2): chairs, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): Teproc

Not Voting (2): O, IDontPlayThisGame
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 03, 2018, 04:00:04 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

You assume that I should make two assumptions about alignment that completely contradict the reads I made yesterday.

You also assume I should default think all of this when I learned I was Roleblocker only the night of, in the middle of holiday season


Beyond that, there's some odd circular logic in what you're proposing. You claim it was obvious to me that Teproc would Doctor Faust, and that scum would NK Faust, and that I'm lying about the low odds in my mind. You then claim that implies I'm scum. Why would I run such a ridiculously stupid gambit, putting myself in the hotseat like that? If was as omniscient as you claim, it would be clear to me that blocking Teproc would either be useless or would be net harmful. There's loads of WIFOM in your argument in that I'm smart enough to make all the deductions which you have so brilliantly made after the fact (truly amazing deductive skills)... but not smart enough to keep myself out of the hotseat after making those deductions.


Actually I have another theory -- that you aren't considering the alignment assumptions you make in your analysis because you know their alignments.


P.S.:
my math major background cries at the bastardization of the meaning of the words "logical" and "illogical" that you perpetuate.

Sorry you are so angry, I wasn't trying to insult you. Even if you had scumreads on faust and Teproc, you couldn't have been sure after just D1. Leaving Teproc free to protect faust can't hurt if faust is scum and can help if they are both town. But I'm not trying to criticize your town play, though if you are town then I recognize that is what I am doing, I think your explanations don't hang together as a town!narrative. Then you talked about this being an unlikely outcome, when it isn't.

You haven't said who you were worried town!teproc would target (with the version of his power as you understood it).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 03, 2018, 04:11:51 pm
That should say scum!Teproc.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:21:14 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:23:43 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

You've evaded my question every time. Good job.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:23:58 pm
Galz being frustrated scum would make me even more confident Teproc/O/gkrieg are all town, because that's something that could frustrate him, realizing all these townies have PRs. It undercuts my scum!mcmc read a bit though, because to be fair he would belong in that list too. Hmm.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:24:07 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

What's your question? I'm sorry.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

You've evaded my question every time. Good job.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:24:23 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

What's your question? I'm sorry.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

You've evaded my question every time. Good job.

Fixing: What's your question? Sorry about that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:26:07 pm
Also a big difference between this game and Modern Community is that it's fully open. We know all possible PRs. I think those games get more latitude to be described as Normal.

I don't want Galz to leave though!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:26:33 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:27:32 pm
Galz being frustrated scum would make me even more confident Teproc/O/gkrieg are all town, because that's something that could frustrate him, realizing all these townies have PRs. It undercuts my scum!mcmc read a bit though, because to be fair he would belong in that list too. Hmm.

The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 04:29:04 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

You assume that I should make two assumptions about alignment that completely contradict the reads I made yesterday.

You also assume I should default think all of this when I learned I was Roleblocker only the night of, in the middle of holiday season


Beyond that, there's some odd circular logic in what you're proposing. You claim it was obvious to me that Teproc would Doctor Faust, and that scum would NK Faust, and that I'm lying about the low odds in my mind. You then claim that implies I'm scum. Why would I run such a ridiculously stupid gambit, putting myself in the hotseat like that? If was as omniscient as you claim, it would be clear to me that blocking Teproc would either be useless or would be net harmful. There's loads of WIFOM in your argument in that I'm smart enough to make all the deductions which you have so brilliantly made after the fact (truly amazing deductive skills)... but not smart enough to keep myself out of the hotseat after making those deductions.


Actually I have another theory -- that you aren't considering the alignment assumptions you make in your analysis because you know their alignments.


P.S.:
my math major background cries at the bastardization of the meaning of the words "logical" and "illogical" that you perpetuate.

Sorry you are so angry, I wasn't trying to insult you. Even if you had scumreads on faust and Teproc, you couldn't have been sure after just D1. Leaving Teproc free to protect faust can't hurt if faust is scum and can help if they are both town. But I'm not trying to criticize your town play, though if you are town then I recognize that is what I am doing, I think your explanations don't hang together as a town!narrative. Then you talked about this being an unlikely outcome, when it isn't.

You haven't said who you were worried town!teproc would target (with the version of his power as you understood it).

my version of the power was global, not targeted.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:30:44 pm
Galz being frustrated scum would make me even more confident Teproc/O/gkrieg are all town, because that's something that could frustrate him, realizing all these townies have PRs. It undercuts my scum!mcmc read a bit though, because to be fair he would belong in that list too. Hmm.

The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!

Well, claiming waaaaaaaaaay too early is actually a very town!Galz thing to do. (I remember watching his insanely premature candidate claim in Lost Mafia.)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 04:32:38 pm
Also I wasn't insulted in any personal manner. I just think your understanding of the odds in this game seems even worse than Galzria's, who at least could have a point with merit somewhere in there
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:34:37 pm
Galz being frustrated scum would make me even more confident Teproc/O/gkrieg are all town, because that's something that could frustrate him, realizing all these townies have PRs. It undercuts my scum!mcmc read a bit though, because to be fair he would belong in that list too. Hmm.

The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!

Well, claiming waaaaaaaaaay too early is actually a very town!Galz thing to do. (I remember watching his insanely premature candidate claim in Lost Mafia.)

Scum Galz does the same thing. Don't artificially assign town points places they don't belong to make yourself seem more reasonable.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:35:52 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 04:36:34 pm
Don't artificially assign town points places they don't belong to make yourself seem more reasonable.

mafia threads would only be 20 pages if we didnt do that tho
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:37:56 pm
So your case doesn't confuse me, confuse was the wrong word, I get that you think someone there is lying about PR, and lying players are scum. I just don't actually think anyone is lying about PR here. They could be scum anyway, but I'm actually not reading them that way.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:38:10 pm
So your case doesn't confuse me, confuse was the wrong word, I get that you think someone there is lying about PR, and lying players are scum. I just don't actually think anyone is lying about PR here. They could be scum anyway, but I'm actually not reading them that way.

This is directed at Galz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:39:53 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:44:34 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

This scenario A) puts unnecessary heat on O, purely caused by his scummateís plan, and B) requires scum!O to have planned the ďI misread asceticĒ thing
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:45:15 pm
It seems like fancy play syndrome to me, for scum partners O and Teproc to do this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:46:55 pm
In fact scum!Teproc having just taken no action to save Faust, because he didnít want to or is just a Goon, and then making a fake claim to try and implicate town gkroeg or O, seems wildly more plausible.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:49:04 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

This scenario A) puts unnecessary heat on O, purely caused by his scummateís plan, and B) requires scum!O to have planned the ďI misread asceticĒ thing

A) I don't know why you would assume this as you, yourself believe the whole thing to be completely reasonable.

B) And that's not hard to do, now is it?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 04:50:37 pm
It seems like fancy play syndrome to me, for scum partners O and Teproc to do this.

I disagree.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 04:52:41 pm
Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did.

Why? I strongly disagree with EFHW that it was "all obvious N1 who's actions would target who". And there are plenty of reasonable (more so then them all being town, I would argue) scenarios for one (or more) of them to be scum.

Well mcmc def has the power he has, because I was neighborized. O def has the power he has because Teproc's action failed. Teproc def has the power he has because why would he bring all this up if not? Gkrieg, actually did gkrieg actually confirm he has his PR, or just that he didn't target Teproc, I can't remember?

Basically, a lot of stuff got brought up, and I think the Occam's razor in this case is that it all happened.

Power is different from alignment. O could be scum, I just don't think he is. Same for gkrieg. Same for Teproc.

Teproc and O could both be scum. Teproc Goon. O UB. Scum killed Faust, Teproc tried to get Gkrieg to spill on whether he's active so they know if their Oracle was reversed or not. In the outcome that Gkrieg is not active (or refuses to say), O can claim to have blocked Teproc - in reality he blocked EFHW to prevent tracking.

That's a much more reasonable scenario than what's been claimed.

That's insane.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:53:28 pm
I believe O could have done it as town for reasons of misunderstanding and stupidity. Next most likely is O doing it for sincere evil scum blockin Teproc reasons. Next most likely is scum teproc plotting this to ensnare gkrieg or O or someone, and landing a hit in town O. Least likely of all is this being a scum Teproc and scum O conspiracy to... put heat on them both.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 04:54:48 pm
Why am I claiming in this scenario exactly ? You're looking at it retroactively instead of startgin from the beginning: the explanation is the simplest. I agree with how RObz summarized it above: it is pretty clear that the PRS being claimed are truthful... alignment is another thing, but I happen to think O and mcmc are town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 04:55:22 pm
The above is adressed to Galz, not Robz (who is making the same point I am more or less).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 04:55:28 pm
I mean, Galzís theory gains credibility if you think someone in there has to be lying about a PR for setup reasons. But there isnít really reason to think that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 04:57:03 pm
O really can't be lying about his PR, because why would scum!O claim when him not claiming leads to me tunneling gkrieg and maybe getting him lynched ? I guess if they're partners. Then if you're arguing I'm the one fakeclaiming, the issue is why do I bother with this at all in the first place ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:02:43 pm
O really can't be lying about his PR, because why would scum!O claim when him not claiming leads to me tunneling gkrieg and maybe getting him lynched ? I guess if they're partners. Then if you're arguing I'm the one fakeclaiming, the issue is why do I bother with this at all in the first place ?

I think I need gkrieg to claim his night action (or lack thereof).

I refuse to do so.

I get that, so I'll put it another way: did you target me last night ?

vote: Teproc. Why would I ever claim my first target???  This is such a scummy question.

Agree. If the first target is evil, then they know their Oracle answer was inverted, which negates that part of his power.

Teproc - What value did you see in gkrieg disclosing this? Are you saying you tried to protect faust? My next question was going to be why didn't you, so that would fit.

Teproc, I understand you wanting to know if you were redirected, but you realize that it would also tell scum that their oracle answer is true or false, which completely takes away from my role.

I do but I kinda think if you redirected me then you're probably scum, and if you didn't it doesn't matter, so...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:03:41 pm
You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:04:36 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 05:05:47 pm
You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.

Well that could support the lone Teproc!scum theory, sure. Not really the Teproc and O scum theory.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:06:38 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:07:22 pm
I guess you'd say I used Tracker and somehow knew I got interferred with ? That assumes scum!me is using Tracker instead of the safe play (Ascetic kill), AND that I got to know my tracking was interferred with, which isn't that easy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 05:07:29 pm
wait so Teproc did all this crap to verify immediately whether his mildly-better-than-single-rolecop question was true, as opposed to waiting and seeing if Gkrieg even has this power?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:08:01 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?

Right, because scum!me doctored faust. I'm such a genius mafia player, such a next level play.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:08:05 pm
You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.

Well that could support the lone Teproc!scum theory, sure. Not really the Teproc and O scum theory.

It supports both. What if Gkrieg says "No, I didn't"? Then Teproc looks like a tool unless O is there to swoop in and take credit for the block.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 05:08:42 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:09:43 pm
Please carefully explain to me what I did last night if I'm scum, and why I did what I did today then.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:10:10 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?

Right, because scum!me doctored faust. I'm such a genius mafia player, such a next level play.

Scum you doesn't go around saying "Hey guys! I'm scum!", does he? What's your argument again? That you've claimed to do something that scum you wouldn't do? And I'm arguing... *gasp*! That you didn't do what you claimed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:11:14 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait

I'm torn because I want to say under-the-radar-ash is scum!ash, but he's VLA-ish, so meh. Robz has been kinda townie today, too.

I'd be more inclined to lynch the people completely avoiding this whole conversation, like Swan or IDPTG.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 05:11:21 pm
You said it yourself. You wanted to know if your Oracle result was true or not.

Well that could support the lone Teproc!scum theory, sure. Not really the Teproc and O scum theory.

It supports both. What if Gkrieg says "No, I didn't"? Then Teproc looks like a tool unless O is there to swoop in and take credit for the block.

And then the chances of lynching O would be verrrry high. I don't think O and Teproc would have agreed to put O in the position of having to pull off a really good fake, just to stick it to gkrieg. I think one would have talked the other out of this plan. I watched how the proceeded as Masons, it was smart and thoughtful and cautious. This seems reckless.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 05:11:44 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait

I'm still willing to hammer him!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:11:58 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?

Right, because scum!me doctored faust. I'm such a genius mafia player, such a next level play.

Scum you doesn't go around saying "Hey guys! I'm scum!", does he? What's your argument again? That you've claimed to do something that scum you wouldn't do? And I'm arguing... *gasp*! That you didn't do what you claimed.

No you're not. You're not arguing anything coherent. I still am waiting to know what scum!me did at night in your scenario.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:13:06 pm
Please carefully explain to me what I did last night if I'm scum, and why I did what I did today then.

You did nothing you goon. But town!You COULD have. Which made you claiming to have been unable to save Faust the perfect cover to try and reveal if Gkrieg is active. In the scenario where O is scum as well, it provides a backup claim to protect you if Gkrieg won't cooperate.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:14:35 pm
Please carefully explain to me what I did last night if I'm scum, and why I did what I did today then.

You did nothing you goon. But town!You COULD have. Which made you claiming to have been unable to save Faust the perfect cover to try and reveal if Gkrieg is active. In the scenario where O is scum as well, it provides a backup claim to protect you if Gkrieg won't cooperate.

Alright so you think the scum team randomly picked one of their members to probe gkrieg ? Like... why ? It's so random, why would I have any expectation that gkrieg targeted me if he has that power, let alone answer me that he did ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:14:59 pm
Right... so the scum team picked me out of a hat to ask gkrieg that question, on the off chance that
a) he did target me
b) he'll claim it

?

Of course. Your supposed PR plays it perfectly. Why wouldn't scum?

Right, because scum!me doctored faust. I'm such a genius mafia player, such a next level play.

Scum you doesn't go around saying "Hey guys! I'm scum!", does he? What's your argument again? That you've claimed to do something that scum you wouldn't do? And I'm arguing... *gasp*! That you didn't do what you claimed.

No you're not. You're not arguing anything coherent. I still am waiting to know what scum!me did at night in your scenario.

Here, maybe reading it a second time will help you out:

Is Galz vla?

More that I'm enjoying my last few days off before work begins again on the 4th. :P

Sorry - I'm up to date on everything. I'll post thoughts and opinions tomorrow.

The odds that scum target Faust to kill, town!Teproc targets Faust to Doctor, and town!O targets Teproc to Roleblock seem pretty extreme. There's a lot of people in this game. And we must remember this IS classified as Normal, not Role Madness. So Joseph (PR) dies, passing his power to O (PR), who uses it on Teproc (PR), who targeted Faust. And in the midst of this, Mcmc and Robz have clearly claimed that Mcmc is a PR.

That's 4 PR's. And that all collides N1? Not impossible. But also reeeeeally not likely.

Starting at the back:

If O is scum and Teproc town:
- Then Teproc was blocked or redirected. Gkrieg could be in play here as a potential O partner, or O could've inherited Roleblocker. Killing one potential Doctor while blocking/redirecting another is a solid scum play.

If O is town and Teproc is scum:
- Then Teproc never intended (or couldn't) to try and save Faust. So why drag Gkrieg into this? Because he needed to know if the Oracle result got flipped. So he fake claimed the Doctor on Faust to try and get Gkrieg to spill beans. This points towards town!Gkrieg, as it's unlikely a play they're making together. The problem is... what if Gkrieg says he didn't redirect Teproc, and O claims to have not blocked anybody? That sets up a Teproc/O/Gkrieg lynch scenario because somebody must be lying. Which brings us to:

If O is scum AND Teproc is scum:
The play is to claim to have Doctored Faust (Teproc), trying to pull information from Gkrieg on if he's active or not. In the event Gkrieg refuses to respond or says he didn't redirect, O can come in and claim to have blocked Teproc. "I didn't know the roles" is an easy cover for O to make here to explain away a small detail.

And then there's Robz and Mcmc. Robz has read townie to me so far this game. Mcmc has not. I'm inclined to believe that Mcmc IS an active PR though, and unless he targeted Faust as well last night then there should be somebody else in game that can confirm that he is. It's quite possible they're both town. It's unlikely they're both scum. Right now I'm inclined to lynch neither of them.

From D1, I was town on Gkrieg, null-ish on O, and scummy on Teproc. Faust too found Teproc scummy, which says something as his reads are usually pretty good. I think with what's happened today I still prefer a vote: Teproc.

I don't believe that all of {Joseph, O, Teproc, Mcmc} are PR's. And given Joseph is confirmed town, I believe there's at least one scum amongst the remainder there. I don't believe lynching Mcmc makes sense today, and of the two remaining I find Teproc more suspicious.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 05:15:24 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait

I'm torn because I want to say under-the-radar-ash is scum!ash, but he's VLA-ish, so meh. Robz has been kinda townie today, too.

I'd be more inclined to lynch the people completely avoiding this whole conversation, like Swan or IDPTG.

Despite my willingness to hammer ashersky, yeah, I'm not actually reading him as scum at this point.

DS is very lurky, which is scummy, but it's so egregious at this point, him being an overwhelmed VT should also be strongly considered. IDP would be my preferred lynch here, I think my earlier suspicion is still valid.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 05:16:31 pm
Also chairs has been criminally overlooked, and my case on mcmc still stands.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:18:21 pm
Please carefully explain to me what I did last night if I'm scum, and why I did what I did today then.

You did nothing you goon. But town!You COULD have. Which made you claiming to have been unable to save Faust the perfect cover to try and reveal if Gkrieg is active. In the scenario where O is scum as well, it provides a backup claim to protect you if Gkrieg won't cooperate.

Alright so you think the scum team randomly picked one of their members to probe gkrieg ? Like... why ? It's so random, why would I have any expectation that gkrieg targeted me if he has that power, let alone answer me that he did ?

It's not random! You're not random! If you WERE town you could have had the ability to save him. That makes you a perfect claim to try and pull information from Gkrieg.

The argument is that you couldn't (no PR) or wouldn't (duh) actually doctor Faust. But claiming to have done so and failed means something is up. There are only two people that could cause this, and one of them, Gkrieg, is exactly the person scum wants to know about.

Why WOULDN'T you do this as scum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:19:42 pm
Right, but the chance of success is so low (it only works if gkrieg is a PR who targeted me), how is it even remotely close to being worth it ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:20:04 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait

Robz, maybe. Ash, no.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 05:20:49 pm
I also think we're overvaluing the Oracle, as historically these kinds of powers haven't been amazing.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:25:00 pm
Right, but the chance of success is so low (it only works if gkrieg is a PR who targeted me), how is it even remotely close to being worth it ?

To that point, I've been meaning to switch to Vote: O.

As EFHW pointed out, in a "only one of you is scum" scenario, O is the more likely. I'm not as big a fan of the "only one" scenario because here scum needs to worry about EFHW tracking unless:

EFHW is scum
or
Gkrieg is scum and redirected EFHW.

But it's still more likely that only one of you is scum over both of you - and if it's both, O is still the better vote.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 03, 2018, 05:34:06 pm
Also I wasn't insulted in any personal manner. I just think your understanding of the odds in this game seems even worse than Galzria's, who at least could have a point with merit somewhere in there
No need to insult me, then, either.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 05:35:38 pm
Also I wasn't insulted in any personal manner. I just think your understanding of the odds in this game seems even worse than Galzria's, who at least could have a point with merit somewhere in there
No need to insult me, then, either.

i don't recall doing so
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 05:38:18 pm
Right, but the chance of success is so low (it only works if gkrieg is a PR who targeted me), how is it even remotely close to being worth it ?

To that point, I've been meaning to switch to Vote: O.

As EFHW pointed out, in a "only one of you is scum" scenario, O is the more likely. I'm not as big a fan of the "only one" scenario because here scum needs to worry about EFHW tracking unless:

EFHW is scum
or
Gkrieg is scum and redirected EFHW.

But it's still more likely that only one of you is scum over both of you - and if it's both, O is still the better vote.

this is a far scummier vote now than if it was just placed after I admitted to roleblocking
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 05:40:51 pm
Right, but the chance of success is so low (it only works if gkrieg is a PR who targeted me), how is it even remotely close to being worth it ?

To that point, I've been meaning to switch to Vote: O.

As EFHW pointed out, in a "only one of you is scum" scenario, O is the more likely. I'm not as big a fan of the "only one" scenario because here scum needs to worry about EFHW tracking unless:

EFHW is scum
or
Gkrieg is scum and redirected EFHW.

But it's still more likely that only one of you is scum over both of you - and if it's both, O is still the better vote.

this is a far scummier vote now than if it was just placed after I admitted to roleblocking

Meh
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:07:05 pm
Is anybody prodable? I feel like there are many people not contributing right now.

Prod All eligible players.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 07:16:04 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 07:26:57 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:31:06 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

Look everybody, I'm 2 for 2 on the scum buddies OMGUS'inh me. Quite entertaining.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:32:42 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 07:35:35 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 07:36:46 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

Well, your Terpoc-O theory sort of came across as a bad and desperate attempt to keep your Teproc case alive.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 03, 2018, 07:38:01 pm
Right, what O said.

Don't think Galz is my favorite lynch, though I am conflicted.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:38:07 pm
Just finished pag3 28, Dana, o scum.  Wo9.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:40:11 pm
Scrolled down lab 28, poop on you gLz, I. Odder awesome modern comm with time, poop. You.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 07:41:01 pm
Sober up

unless you want to drunkclaim scum
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:42:03 pm
Pg 30, r9ba o Galz scum team surely poop.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:43:58 pm
Cufh5 Up, stilĒ 9 scum! Lot ch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:44:17 pm
Lol, read that.  O scum. Lunch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:44:45 pm
ALS cool r9bl and Mcmc and Galz mo tepr9v.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:44:55 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:45:21 pm
A t9ce PPS Galz o.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 07:47:04 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

nobody else has been active, Galz. Except MCMC. Who doesn't appear to agree with you.

This assumes we're ignoring Ashersky's "activity" of course
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:47:07 pm
Damn. I need an Ash to English dictionary. Don't think Google translate will work.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:48:28 pm
Iíd rTher be a lover than a fighter,
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:48:48 pm
I found peace in your violence
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:49:08 pm
Everyon3 should drinky
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:49:29 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

nobody else has been active, Galz. Except MCMC. Who doesn't appear to agree with you.

This assumes we're ignoring Ashersky's "activity" of course

That's weird. Pretty sure I recall EFHW, Eevee, Gkrieg, DatSwan and Ashersky all being on you or Teproc.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
Oscum for sue.  Yes.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:50:20 pm
Everyon3 should drinky

That's true.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:50:51 pm
I canít swim well.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 03, 2018, 07:52:28 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

nobody else has been active, Galz. Except MCMC. Who doesn't appear to agree with you.

This assumes we're ignoring Ashersky's "activity" of course

That's weird. Pretty sure I recall EFHW, Eevee, Gkrieg, DatSwan and Ashersky all being on you or Teproc.

Eevee and Datswan and Gkrieg all have negative post counts
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:52:48 pm
O scum dude.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:53:18 pm
O scum dude.

Yeah, probably.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 07:53:57 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

nobody else has been active, Galz. Except MCMC. Who doesn't appear to agree with you.

This assumes we're ignoring Ashersky's "activity" of course

That's weird. Pretty sure I recall EFHW, Eevee, Gkrieg, DatSwan and Ashersky all being on you or Teproc.

Eevee and Datswan and Gkrieg all have negative post counts

And yet they're voting in the right places.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 03, 2018, 07:57:50 pm
FYI I& yo7 f9 5. El8rv3 Iím bdr7nk, listen8n* to Brian Wilson b7 bel on YouTube.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 08:19:38 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

Who are these people you mention ? Cause I haven't seen anyone agreeing with you... because your theory is nonsensical, as you've all but admitted yourself by retreating into scumteam theorizing.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 08:21:29 pm
People voting O or me is not the same thing as agreeing with you... especially people like Swan or gkrieg who haven't posted in two days or something.

WHatever, this is not about winning an argument (because you know, there's no argument to be won here, you're just making random stuff up and seeing what sticks), it's about people taking the time to read the last five pages and voting Galz. So you know, do that people.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 08:24:59 pm
To remind everyone, Galz's theory is something like:

I'm a Goon who decided to fakeclaim PR solely to cover the case where gkrieg targeted me so that I could get the info for my Oracle. O is probably my scumbuddy who "covered" for me by claiming roleblocker (instead of not doing so which would have made it me vs gkrieg, now by throwing himself in the mix it's two scum and a townie, what a brilliant plan).

Or maybe I'm town and O decided to claim truthfully... again just so that he could avoid the lynch being between me and gkrieg ? Because... what, gkrieg is his partner ? Actually Galz hasn't gone that route at all, but that's a thing I guess.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 03, 2018, 08:28:19 pm
I'm sure Galz will claim I'm misrepresenting him, but it's hard to know exactly what his theory is beyond "oh my god so many PRs they must be scum".
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 03, 2018, 08:46:10 pm
I'm sure Galz will claim I'm misrepresenting him, but it's hard to know exactly what his theory is beyond "oh my god so many PRs they must be scum".

No, but I'm not going to be petty and write up asinine renditions of your "defenses". Everything is there and people can read it for themselves. There really isn't any point trying to debate scum about them being scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 03, 2018, 09:48:15 pm
Sorry. Going to get to this tomorrow. Family is gone but we are having friends come by on their cross country move so I have been getting the house ready for that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 04, 2018, 12:42:40 am
Vote Count 2.4

Teproc (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan
O (4): ashersky, EFHW, Eevee, Galzria
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (2): chairs, mcmcsalot
Galzria (2): Teproc, O

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM

Is anybody prodable? I feel like there are many people not contributing right now.

Prod All eligible players.
Prods sent to chairs and DatSwan
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 07:04:25 am
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

So still pretty behind but I can actually very much see a scenario where scum!robz planned during the night to come out with this case on me, he thinks he can get me lynched for discussing the dp thing and puts me as a pr. Once the case falls apart and town begins turning in robz (I believe many people were agreeing I was townie and robz case didnít make a ton of sens) but instead of letting that play out scum!glaz artfully blew the thread up with his not only his theory about teproc/gkrieg/o but going so far as to respond and quote and repeat to every single point pushing us far far past he conversations early in the day.

Note still catching up the above O quote is where in at
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 07:18:51 am
Okay so caught up. I think agree with robz and o and teproc scum!teproc doesnít do all of this just to learn about oracle. The only thing that works is scum!teproc A) tracked someone and failed so he knows he was blocked, or B) is scum with O. In A) scum!teproc Knows he was blocked but pretends somehow his doc failed and tries to put gkrieg while knowing o will eventually claim to have blocked him. In B) both teproc and o take way to much heat and I donít believe they do it. O being lone scum makes no sense because he just wouldnít say anything and let this play out. I donít think heís super afraid of tracker efhw.

Add in to all of this I thought teproc was towny day one I donít think A is the case. I would much rather lynch robz who made the terrible case on me and was scummy yesterday. If robz flips scum I do think that paints galz in a scummy light. Also chairs has been like nowhere same with eevee.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 08:14:48 am
I agree that galz has seemed off. I don't think robz's case against you not doing well is much of a motivation for him to blow up the thread, but I'll go back and reread the day when I'm at a computer.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 08:41:38 am
So, I read it on my phone and Galz comes in because I asked if he was vla. Then he mistakenly posted his analysis when it sounds like he was intending to do it the next irl day. So the timing doesn't seem very informative as to motivation.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 08:43:04 am
He does seem scummy, but I don't think his flipping scum should implicate Robz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 09:32:09 am
He does seem scummy, but I don't think his flipping scum should implicate Robz.

No I donít think his flipping scum would say much about robz alignment, rather I was thinking robz flipping scum would slightly implicate galz as scummy as it would mean galzís tirade has the added benefit of distracting from whatís I felt to be a growing suspicion of robz.

This theory is not as strong as I thought when I said it though. I incorrectly remembered galz doing a similar thing to protect me from suspicion when we were scum together in pirates mafia but after some minor rereading of that game I donít think thatís what happened so my ďscum!galz likes to defend partners by plunging headlong into a new discussion and distancing from their suspicionĒ theory isnít backed up by fact.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 09:33:25 am
Efhw you are still voting o my apologies if itís been stated recently but do you still find him scummy and if so whatís the short reason?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 09:40:58 am
I'm not convinced he's scum. My vote is still on him for rudeness. I'm thinking of moving to Galz. O's extreme defensiveness could be flailing scum, but I'm leaning towards reading it as outraged town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 09:45:12 am
I'm not convinced he's scum. My vote is still on him for rudeness. I'm thinking of moving to Galz. O's extreme defensiveness could be flailing scum, but I'm leaning towards reading it as outraged town.
Understandable, for what itís worth I didnít read anything out of the ordinary in his tone nor an intention of rudeness.

What are you thoughts on eevee? Iíve found it very hard to formulate any read in him as Andrew was on exsistant and it feels eevee has slipped into a similar pattern. I should do a quick reread of him.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 09:47:20 am
Feels like town!Eevee to me, but that is a light impression.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 10:13:32 am
Feels like town!Eevee to me, but that is a light impression.

Yea I did that reread, unfortunately nothing much came up. He felt scummy in robz and townie on me day one, townie end of day where he agreed with me about gkrieg and did try to get that lynch through as opposed to Joseph (this while robz sat at 5 on Joseph, not willing to join eevee, myself and teproc despite voicing how mush gkrieg flip would help inform him of my role). His flipped reads of me and robz earlier today seemed a natural reaction to robz case, not forced. So yea seems like just a relatively low active(possibly due to jumping in) town!eevee. Townie of him as well to declare he didnít shoot Faust, itís the type of posts that if you Only have time to mention something briefly are at least informative.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 10:58:12 am
vote: ash

I've seen drunk typing and that's not that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 04, 2018, 11:09:38 am
Whatís my motivation for faking it?

I definitely was typing fast and not correcting things on purpose ó pretty funny upon review. 

But really, whatís the benefit to acting?  Iím curious to know.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 11:23:27 am
Whatís my motivation for faking it?

I definitely was typing fast and not correcting things on purpose ó pretty funny upon review. 

But really, whatís the benefit to acting?  Iím curious to know.

No idea, but I don't understand half of what you do. You mentioned wanting to be the D1 lynch if Robz hammered. Do you still feel that way?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 04, 2018, 12:08:53 pm
I'm not convinced he's scum. My vote is still on him for rudeness. I'm thinking of moving to Galz. O's extreme defensiveness could be flailing scum, but I'm leaning towards reading it as outraged town.

Saying this entirely independently of game events -- I honestly don't know which part is the part that was rude to you, so I can't apologize very easily for it. Most of the flourish of my posts is written entirely facetiously, since that's the persona I had on this forum when I was younger.

If it's the "bastardization of proof" or "truly amazing deductive skills" none of that was intended to be serious at all in tone, or personally aimed at you (more aimed at post-event rationalization in general that happens on F.DS) and i'm sorry if it was poorly executed.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 04, 2018, 12:18:04 pm
i don't see why Ash would fake the drunk typing.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 04, 2018, 12:35:03 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: chairs on January 04, 2018, 01:45:16 pm
Posting to acknowledge my existence.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 04, 2018, 01:58:19 pm
i don't see why Ash would fake the drunk typing.

Well I don't either. But I really don't understand what he's doing, even by ash standards. He's had very little to say most of the game--his longest period of activity was completely incoherent. But he's clearly around, the second IDP says something about him, he appears to defend himself.

I have seen ash do weird and somewhat off-putting things on purpose as scum, though.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:02:38 pm
I guess I do have to agree with Teproc that the  lynchpool for today needs to be {gkrieg, O, Teproc}, unless someone can think of another way faust could have died. Maybe add in Eevee  if scum used his one vig shot to double kill faust. Doubtful but theoretically possible.

This is scummy from EFHW.  trying to make the lynchpool smaller before we had even heard from O is bad.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:05:49 pm
Mcmc, how would you describe the course of your chats with Robz?

I was enthusiastic to discuss reads. I did analyze his role and discuss the idea that because the setup allows for one no lynch (if 3 scum one no lynch keeps the same number of number of potential mislynches) it might be a good idea for town to burn robz potential 1-shot death proof. If town itís a Good Power, if scum itís an insanely strong Power that a fact. Add in what I said about no lynches, burning a town!robz 1sdp doesnít change the number of potential mislynches we can do. That paranoid him reasonably so but as far as my read thoughts, he felt forced and overly concerned about my alignment. It came across to me as ďI have to be wary of your alignment to seem like I donít know you are townĒ. I am fully aware that could be because we have both taken some games off but truly it felt forced. That led to my scum read on him growing as the day went on.

The idea of burning his deathproof would obviously not be well-received by town!Robz.  He picked that role for a reason, and no one wants their role to be wasted, especially when it is just wasted for not a very good reason.  Scum also has a good reason to want town!Robz to not have his deathproof.  Robz can be a player with good reads and able to convince town that his reads are correct.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:10:48 pm
I mean, yeah, maybe O will come in and say he's a roleblocker and he targeted me and maybe he's town and just did a dumb thing and I outed him and me for nothing. But also gkrieg is just scummy, so we can lynch him even if that happens.

How have I been scummy?  Is it still because of the ash thing?

Thatís early d1 stuff, however your pushing of the Joseph wagon which is now a confirmed town makes your late day 1 play scummy.

Time to reread some things.

Why does that make me scummy?  Pushing a lynch that I feel strongly about says nothing about my alignment.  I don't bus that often, so I can understand that pushing a scum wagon D1 would give you a town read on me, but I often am wrong D1, and I often have opinions D1.  The fact that Joseph got lynched means we know I pushed a town wagon, but I know that people pushing my wagon were also pushing a town wagon, so should I find those people scummy?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:17:22 pm
Scum!Teproc could be saying he was roleblocked to cover for not having protected faust.

So Iíve been mulling this idea over as well and my thoughts have rested on this. Teproc was not under much suspicion yesterday, many people finding him townie, scum!teproc gains from this a potential mislynch of town!gkrieg who could be inactive or even worse gkrieg could have taken an action that is provable (redirecting me for example). Scum!teproc would not be under any suspicion for not doctoring Faust because without him bringing this up likely no one would push for him to reveal if he is even active.

Scum!gkrieg has strong insentive to redirect town!teproc onto a vanilla scum who took no action last night. If teproc doctors it protect the vanilla scum from a potential vig shot and if he is tracking someone he sees nothing. The risk there is if town!teproc tracked someone who took an action and teproc became aware of that, gkrieg would be completely caught. I think here itís just a case of risk assessment and it was more likely teproc doctored then tracked, and itís unlikely he becomes aware his track target took an action.

The presence of O throws a wrench into all of this as it increases the chance both scum!teproc and scum!gkrieg do the things described above. For scum!teproc, if we lynch gkrieg who flips town he can tomorrow say well o must have blocked me. For scum!gkrieg similarly when town!teprocs action fails he can say it wasnít me must have been O. On a balance note, I doubt O is both scum and active. A scum UB varies wildly in how much it can help or hurt scum (gaining a vig adds kill power, gaining a death proof adds literal lynch numbers vs. gaining a weak cop or tracker who need to be lying about results and potentially clearing townies)

All that being said combined with my scum read of gkrieg yesterday, combined with him being a primary proponent of the awful Joseph lynch, combined with robz who is a scum read of mine voting gkrieg only briefly yesterday (because of my great ability to catch scum!gkrieg in his words) and then ditching that vote to move to Joseph I am pretty happy leaving my vote on gkrieg.

This case on me is horrible.  It uses theoretical things (my night action), with the fact that I was behind a mislynch (not alignment indicative), with a vote from someone who is unconfirmed, with something that mcmc also did (vote Joseph to get a lynch through).  Scum are more likely to get on a mislynch at the end of the day instead of drive it for the entire day.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:18:16 pm
I'm behind a page, but a thought just occured to me: I'm pretty suspicious of people who are pushing for lynches based on (potential) roles instead of reads.

This pretty well captures my thoughts.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:21:07 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...

Oh, I had misread this initially when I was following the thread before.  I thought he said that he didn't block Teproc.  The ellipses give me a slight scum read on O.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:25:17 pm
I blocked Teproc. Blocking all non-killing actions seemed like the most anti-town ability in the game, and I didn't think redirector would have a high usage or success rate D1.

This is obviously a shitty outcome, assuming Teproc is telling the truth... pretty low odds that I block a successful doctor shot D1...
It's not really low odds. He was the only one with a potential doctor power. Did you have a scum read on him for some reason?

Nah, faust was the main potential doctor.
But faust couldn't protect himself and was a very likely nk target. Teproc was the only dr who could protect faust.

The chance of a doctor actually saving someone N1 is incredibly low.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:26:33 pm


I don't believe that all of {Joseph, O, Teproc, Mcmc} are PR's. And given Joseph is confirmed town, I believe there's at least one scum amongst the remainder there. I don't believe lynching Mcmc makes sense today, and of the two remaining I find Teproc more suspicious.

I'm assuming you mean if all 4 are town?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:27:58 pm
vote: Galz

How is any of this unlikely ? There are only 2 PRs being claimed here (myself and O). I guess there's mcmc too, that's 3... how is that even close to RMM ? You including Joseph in this is ludicrous since Joseph has flipped... there being 4 PRs in a 13-player game (including O who may very well be scum claiming entirely truthfully) is nowhere near RMM or unbelievable. But you know that, so I can only assume this incredibly forced line of reasoning is not genuine because you're scum.

I agree with Teproc here, but I definitely don't think it makes galz scummy.  Galz's analysis was wrong, but not scummy wrong.  This feels like strong OMGUS to me.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:31:28 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

I think you are generalizing things a little too much here.  Mainly that faust was the most likely night kill, and that Teproc would choose to doctor him.  Although the fact that it did actually happen that way means that it was more likely than I was giving it credit for.  But still, the likelihood of that all happening, and roleblocking the doctor that had an opportunity to doctor faust seems a little unlikely. If I had a 1-shot Doctor, I would certainly not use it N1.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:34:46 pm
I don't agree, I think O's actions make lots of sense for town!O, right down to not understanding what ascetic does.

Galz's case on Teproc confuses the heck out of me. It seems pretty clear to me, bordering on inarguable, that gkrieg/Teproc/O/mcmc all have the powers they claim they had, and all did what they say they did. I'm venturing a guess that the O/Teproc thing is a giant town on town debacle, with gkrieg's refusal to claim making sense for town!him as well (why me pointing this out made Teproc think I'm scum I don't quite understand, but it doesn't make me read Teproc as scum).

I don't really know what to think of Galz, alignment wise, I've got a big null read on him. He could be scum. I'm worried he's calling the me/mcmc situation correctly because he's trying to buddy me. On the other hand, maybe he's calling it right because he's town and he's reading things correctly. That's what I want it to be!

Still confident on my mcmc case. I could also lynch somewhere in the chairs or DatSwan department, those guys are lurking.

I could go mcmc.  Teproc's night actions don't make much sense for him as scum unless he really did the tracking instead of the doctoring and wanted to get PRs to claim so that he can kill them later.  But his OMGUS on galz was pretty scummy.  There has been lots of activity though, so i could definitely see scum in one of the lurkers.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:36:46 pm
I think the point is that it's pretty unlikely for all these pr's to interact like you (plural) claim they have. Much simpler explanation is that someone's lying.

It's maybe unlikely there are so many PR's, but O blocking Teproc's doctor shot is not long odds at all. O knew he was roleblocker, so the chances of that are not relevant. He knew, I presume, that faust would be the most likely nk, so that's not long odds. Teproc was the only one with possible power to protect faust. His ascetic power was not that dangerous to town - who did O think Teproc would be targeting?

O brought up long odds as part of his defense. But it isn't really a defense in my mind at all. It makes me suspicious when people try to persuade me with illogical arguments.

O: Who did you think Teproc would target?

Galz: I followed your what ifs for the different combination of scum/town O/Teproc, but I'm wondering why you ended up on Teproc. The town!O/scum!Teproc combination didn't work, whereas all the scum!O scenarios seem plausible.

vote: O

You claim that town!O should have known this was a likely outcome. This assumes prior knowledge that

1) Faust is town (I scumread Faust)
2) Teproc is town (I scumread Teproc)
3) Teproc is a PR
4) Scum fear doctor over tracker (which is wrong, IMO) or that tracker is scum (oh hey look)
5) No other PR interrupts this flow

You assume that I should make two assumptions about alignment that completely contradict the reads I made yesterday.

You also assume I should default think all of this when I learned I was Roleblocker only the night of, in the middle of holiday season


Beyond that, there's some odd circular logic in what you're proposing. You claim it was obvious to me that Teproc would Doctor Faust, and that scum would NK Faust, and that I'm lying about the low odds in my mind. You then claim that implies I'm scum. Why would I run such a ridiculously stupid gambit, putting myself in the hotseat like that? If was as omniscient as you claim, it would be clear to me that blocking Teproc would either be useless or would be net harmful. There's loads of WIFOM in your argument in that I'm smart enough to make all the deductions which you have so brilliantly made after the fact (truly amazing deductive skills)... but not smart enough to keep myself out of the hotseat after making those deductions.


Actually I have another theory -- that you aren't considering the alignment assumptions you make in your analysis because you know their alignments.


P.S.:
my math major background cries at the bastardization of the meaning of the words "logical" and "illogical" that you perpetuate.

Kind of what I was trying to say earlier, but a little differently stated.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:37:39 pm
vote: Galz

How is any of this unlikely ? There are only 2 PRs being claimed here (myself and O). I guess there's mcmc too, that's 3... how is that even close to RMM ? You including Joseph in this is ludicrous since Joseph has flipped... there being 4 PRs in a 13-player game (including O who may very well be scum claiming entirely truthfully) is nowhere near RMM or unbelievable. But you know that, so I can only assume this incredibly forced line of reasoning is not genuine because you're scum.

My point, as Eevee noted, is that it's highly unlikely that:

{Joseph, Teproc, O, Mcmc} are all PR's
&
{Joseph, Teproc, O, Faust!NK} all collided NIGHT 1
&
{Joseph, Teproc, O, Mcmc} are all town

----------

What it boils down to is that I don't believe that all 4 of you are both {PR, Town}. As the entire series of events surrounding Faust's kill are highly suspect {Joseph dies -> O Inherits PR -> O Blocks Teproc -> Teproc fails to Doctor Faust -> Scum kill Faust), I'm more inclined to lynch between you and O than Mcmc (who, at a very least, can have his PR confirmed). I scum read you more than O, but that's not to say I find O townie. If people would prefer I'm good with that lynch too.

Makes sense, disregard my previous statement to you
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:45:26 pm
Galz being frustrated scum would make me even more confident Teproc/O/gkrieg are all town, because that's something that could frustrate him, realizing all these townies have PRs. It undercuts my scum!mcmc read a bit though, because to be fair he would belong in that list too. Hmm.

The most unlikely thing of all is that you (Galz) would make this crappy an argument.

So, you know, lynch Galz, people.

Yes, people, do. And when Galz flips yet another town PR you can all realize what idiots you've been and go back and MAYBE salvage this game by lynching Teproc/O.

Or, you know, maybe you can realize that my arguments against the unlikely nature of ALL these players being town and PR's are because I myself am a town PR and this is a NORMAL game, so with 13 players alive there aren't freaking 5 Town PR's - and all this crap with Teproc and O is ridiculously unlikely to begin with!

Well, claiming waaaaaaaaaay too early is actually a very town!Galz thing to do. (I remember watching his insanely premature candidate claim in Lost Mafia.)

Scum Galz does the same thing. Don't artificially assign town points places they don't belong to make yourself seem more reasonable.

Was just about to come here and say this.  There is no reason for Galz not to claim as either alignment at this point.  It gives some credibility to his argument as either scum knowing that Teproc/O are both town, and as town thinking that Teproc/O has a scum in it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:46:50 pm
It seems like fancy play syndrome to me, for scum partners O and Teproc to do this.

I agree with this with respect to Galz's theory on Teproc/O team.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:49:38 pm
I guess you'd say I used Tracker and somehow knew I got interferred with ? That assumes scum!me is using Tracker instead of the safe play (Ascetic kill), AND that I got to know my tracking was interferred with, which isn't that easy.

To be fair, you could've ascetic killed, then claimed to have doctored faust, but I agree with you that it isn't very likely.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:50:48 pm
can we go back to more reasonable insane conspiracy theories, like my still yet to be disproven ashersky-robz lynch bait

I'm torn because I want to say under-the-radar-ash is scum!ash, but he's VLA-ish, so meh. Robz has been kinda townie today, too.

I'd be more inclined to lynch the people completely avoiding this whole conversation, like Swan or IDPTG.

Why don't you include chairs?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:51:55 pm
Please carefully explain to me what I did last night if I'm scum, and why I did what I did today then.

You did nothing you goon. But town!You COULD have. Which made you claiming to have been unable to save Faust the perfect cover to try and reveal if Gkrieg is active. In the scenario where O is scum as well, it provides a backup claim to protect you if Gkrieg won't cooperate.

I think you are putting too much stock into getting the result of their oracle right.  Oracle isn't amazing, it is just OK.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:54:13 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

Look everybody, I'm 2 for 2 on the scum buddies OMGUS'inh me. Quite entertaining.

I'm very confused why you are so worked up about all of this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:55:30 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

I didn't get the feeling that everyone else that has been active has been in agreement.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:56:20 pm
Vote: Galzria

pretty bizarre galzria i've seen today. I think he smelled blood in the water and now is panicking when it didn't pan out

That might be.

Panicking over... what? Exactly? O being at 4 votes and the leading wagon is an interesting definition of "not panning out".

I wasn't even your primary lynch target. But despite being the leading wagon, I don't think I'm actually getting lynched today.

Panicking over the rejection of your rhetoric for what you thought would be an easy mislynch

Rejected by you, and Teproc... surprise! Robz too, but that's not surprising. Everybody else that's been active has more or less been in agreement. We just need more of those people.

nobody else has been active, Galz. Except MCMC. Who doesn't appear to agree with you.

This assumes we're ignoring Ashersky's "activity" of course

That's weird. Pretty sure I recall EFHW, Eevee, Gkrieg, DatSwan and Ashersky all being on you or Teproc.

Eevee and Datswan and Gkrieg all have negative post counts

I was also already voting for Teproc before.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:58:13 pm
Okay so caught up. I think agree with robz and o and teproc scum!teproc doesnít do all of this just to learn about oracle. The only thing that works is scum!teproc A) tracked someone and failed so he knows he was blocked, or B) is scum with O. In A) scum!teproc Knows he was blocked but pretends somehow his doc failed and tries to put gkrieg while knowing o will eventually claim to have blocked him. In B) both teproc and o take way to much heat and I donít believe they do it. O being lone scum makes no sense because he just wouldnít say anything and let this play out. I donít think heís super afraid of tracker efhw.

Add in to all of this I thought teproc was towny day one I donít think A is the case. I would much rather lynch robz who made the terrible case on me and was scummy yesterday. If robz flips scum I do think that paints galz in a scummy light. Also chairs has been like nowhere same with eevee.

What about the case he made on you was terrible?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 02:59:33 pm
He does seem scummy, but I don't think his flipping scum should implicate Robz.

No I donít think his flipping scum would say much about robz alignment, rather I was thinking robz flipping scum would slightly implicate galz as scummy as it would mean galzís tirade has the added benefit of distracting from whatís I felt to be a growing suspicion of robz.

This theory is not as strong as I thought when I said it though. I incorrectly remembered galz doing a similar thing to protect me from suspicion when we were scum together in pirates mafia but after some minor rereading of that game I donít think thatís what happened so my ďscum!galz likes to defend partners by plunging headlong into a new discussion and distancing from their suspicionĒ theory isnít backed up by fact.

Can you point me to the growing suspicion of Robz?  I was just rereading and didn't get that vibe.  I got the vibe of a growing suspicion of O, and a growing suspicion of galz, but not of Robz.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 03:00:34 pm
vote: ash

I've seen drunk typing and that's not that.

Really?  That is what you choose to comment on?  vote: IDPTG
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 03:01:46 pm
Ok, well I now have to go finish yard work and general clean up.  I'll try to be around more later today though.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 03:11:27 pm
Oh, forgot to post these reads.

Galz - Pretty null.  He is holding on to this conspiracy theory that he has, even when it doesn't make the most sense.  It is either tunneling O/Teproc because they are town, or he is just holding on to a conspiracy theory (I think I more often do that as town).  So maybe on the townie side of null.

O - The way he claimed was townie, especially because scum!O would've known I was town, and wouldn't have saved me (having to worry about EFHW as a tracker doesn't seem like that big of a deal).

Teproc - his reactions and defenses have been scummy, but I'm not sure I get why he does what he did as scum, except as an attempt to get town points if both he and O are scum.  They may have figured that their role interactions would give town points to Teproc, and not have as bad an impact on O.  But still, he is pretty 50/50 for me.  The way he came out accusing me of redirection and not considering being roleblocked is townie, I think, but the OMGUS of galzria is pretty scummy IMO.

EFHW - It seems like she is trying to paint O as scum a little too hard, using probability stuff that I don't completely agree with

Robz - Everything he has done so far makes sense to me.  Townie.

Mcmcsalot - He is scummy to me.  He is disregarding cases on himself without really defending them and his case on me wasn't good, considering the amount he has been tunneling me.  The fact that he still wants to continue to tunnel me when I have had townie reactions to Teproc today is scummy. 

IDPTG - commenting on ash instead of everything else is scummy.

ash - still on the townie side, but that read got much less strong after his last few comments, with not really being invested in the game.  I would expect town!ash to be tunneling someone at this point.

Everyone else, I don't remember enough, and would gladly lynch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 03:25:23 pm
He does seem scummy, but I don't think his flipping scum should implicate Robz.

No I donít think his flipping scum would say much about robz alignment, rather I was thinking robz flipping scum would slightly implicate galz as scummy as it would mean galzís tirade has the added benefit of distracting from whatís I felt to be a growing suspicion of robz.

This theory is not as strong as I thought when I said it though. I incorrectly remembered galz doing a similar thing to protect me from suspicion when we were scum together in pirates mafia but after some minor rereading of that game I donít think thatís what happened so my ďscum!galz likes to defend partners by plunging headlong into a new discussion and distancing from their suspicionĒ theory isnít backed up by fact.

Can you point me to the growing suspicion of Robz?  I was just rereading and didn't get that vibe.  I got the vibe of a growing suspicion of O, and a growing suspicion of galz, but not of Robz.

I guess I can answer both your questions at once, robz case on me was bad because its literally "mcmc tried to get me to reveal if I am dp or not" which is factually completely inacurate as I have laid out because I was merely pointing out the statistical advantages of confirming no scum dp exists while not losing any mislynches while gaining a night of results to deal with instead of a day one Lynch based of nothing because we had two players quit and more being inactive. Also the theory that as scum I brashly come up with a plan to get robz to disclose if he is death proof instead of just try and get him mislynched or use the oracle shot.

The growing suspicion of robz may be less than I though but it felt like after my defense and explaination of what I said to robz and why most people did not think it was a good case and that robz was slightly scummy for A) proposing it and B) outing me as a pr for no reason. if he is town that was kinda unnecessary and crappy.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2018, 03:26:32 pm
I'm not convinced he's scum. My vote is still on him for rudeness. I'm thinking of moving to Galz. O's extreme defensiveness could be flailing scum, but I'm leaning towards reading it as outraged town.

Saying this entirely independently of game events -- I honestly don't know which part is the part that was rude to you, so I can't apologize very easily for it. Most of the flourish of my posts is written entirely facetiously, since that's the persona I had on this forum when I was younger.

If it's the "bastardization of proof" or "truly amazing deductive skills" none of that was intended to be serious at all in tone, or personally aimed at you (more aimed at post-event rationalization in general that happens on F.DS) and i'm sorry if it was poorly executed.
Ok, thank you.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 03:28:58 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 03:35:54 pm
That said, I think scum!mcmc flipping would also be rather informative.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 04, 2018, 03:40:12 pm
Want to lynch: Mcmc

Would lynch: IDP, Galz, chairs

Null: DS, ash

Leaning town: EFHW, gkrieg, Teproc, O, Eevee
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 03:42:24 pm
Wait datswan is still in this game good god. Need to do a post count soon. Just for my sanity.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 03:53:11 pm
I am back as of this morning. Holidays hit harder than I expected. Will do the whatever posts in a sec here  and be around going forward.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 03:58:31 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

I was 100% convinced Robz was town until I read this post.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 04:00:49 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

You've evaded my question every time. Good job.

lol you are like the last person on the planet that should get to say that. Maybe with the exception of Awaclus...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 04, 2018, 04:17:54 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

I was 100% convinced Robz was town until I read this post.

Why were you convinced I was town, and why did this remark change your mind?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 04:23:26 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 04:27:18 pm
I found peace in your violence

Marshmello!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 04:30:12 pm
OK I am essentially done, and I will post up all the stuff shortly to follow. Two things are for certain:

1) Galz should not get lynched today.
2) There is Skum in Robz, MCMC, Teproc, O
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 04:30:42 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?

In my opinion, (assuming you're active and are using your shots) the alignment of the possible redirection clarifies some of the results that have been discussed today.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 04, 2018, 04:35:47 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?

In my opinion, (assuming you're active and are using your shots) the alignment of the possible redirection clarifies some of the results that have been discussed today.

i dont see how the results of today change...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 04:48:14 pm
OK I am essentially done, and I will post up all the stuff shortly to follow. Two things are for certain:

1) Galz should not get lynched today.
2) There is Skum in Robz, MCMC, Teproc, O

Ooo I so glad you came back, I agree wholeheartedly! You should vote though I donít think you are.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 09:04:27 pm
OK I am essentially done, and I will post up all the stuff shortly to follow. Two things are for certain:

1) Galz should not get lynched today.
2) There is Skum in Robz, MCMC, Teproc, O

Ooo I so glad you came back, I agree wholeheartedly! You should vote though I donít think you are.

99% sure I am on Tep
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2018, 09:07:08 pm
Yooooohoooooo where is everyone, drunk ama

Still getting to that post count and there will be scolding

Ppe: sure about what yoda?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 10:34:17 pm
5 town PRs would not be RMM. You played Lost Mafia and M100 which were closer to RMM than this would be, but I guess that's another discussion. The RMM-y thing here is that there are multiple possibilities for redirection, but again: not really the time and place for that discussion I think.

Also, yeah, O could be scum. mcmc could be scum too. I don't see that the fact that they're claiming PRs makes them more likely than anyone else to be.

Yes this 100%. Even in like the normal JK+ or C9+ or whatever it is, you can easily get 5 town PRs out of 13.

Galz seems to be making an argument for what he'd like the setup to be, rather than what it clearly is. This does strike me as a frustrated scum thing, more often than not.

I was 100% convinced Robz was town until I read this post.

Why were you convinced I was town, and why did this remark change your mind?

I should moderately rephrase: I was "as convinced as I could be at this point that you were town". And that is just based off the same as reads I have on anyone, your interactions seemed of that of a Town Player (specifically in regards to your interactions with MCMC). I also believe that if I was playing with a Twin Claim and I had MCMC's role as skum, I would def NZ my twin N0 if possible. All that being said, I still am not saying I think you are skum, just less sure of town. And the reason is because I disagree with the statement. Not saying you are wrong and I am right for sure, it is def a matter of opinion, but I assume Town frustration on set ups more often than the other way around.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 04, 2018, 10:37:55 pm
Not saying you are wrong and I am right for sure, it is def a matter of opinion, but I assume Town frustration on set ups more often than the other way around.

Well, scum!Galz and scum!ashersky were pretty frustrated with the Hammer Hero setup problem in Mafia 100.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 10:44:30 pm
Keeping it brief...

Stuff from earlier in the game:

1) Robz and MCMC - You are both town... I think...but either way just stop. I don't think anyone cares about what you are saying in your side thread so either just say it in here or keep the door shut on it. Or don't, whatever, but if you are town you should appreciate that all you are doing is diverting attention from important stuff at this time. I think they are both Town. If we live in a world where one has to be skum, I guess Robz, but I don't think we live in that world.
---@ MCMC: question that was asked that I did not see the answer for (could of missed it).... why in the holy hell would you NZ your brobro N0?---

2) Night Actions (I think I got this right):
- Teproc used 1 shot doc on Faust
- But Faust died
- Because O used his inherited RB power on Teproc?
   ...So yeah, on one hand I agree with the mindset of "too convoluted to be made up", but on the other I do smell a little "too good to be true" here as well. It kind of just comes down to O using the RB on Teproc thing. Last game I played in this situation I was way off on my assumptions so that could just be the case, but just the whole thing seems off. That being said imo the mis reading of the Ascetic thing seems towny.

3) Just throwing this in here. We should not forget about the Ash Bowser claim at the end yadda yadda thing.

Newer Stuff:

1) Return of the Galz
- He was super quiet for a while (although I can speak to him being on Vacation, and a well deserved one at that). But still, quiet is weird. FWIW last time I played with him and quiet was weird he died N1 and was the Mother of all Awesome Role for town and it lost them the game. Not saying it has to be the same (I have never actually played a game with Skum!Galz) but worth mentioning.
- This part is weird. His responses are wayyyyy different then usual. I am not going to waste my breathe explaining how that is true, I am sure everyone has noticed it.
- No one cares about whether the game set up is fair or not, or whatever classified correctly or not. I cannot possibly see what you gain from opening a convo in game on that topic so I would suggest steering clear of it until after and not wasting time.
--------To that point. Game notes state it is created for 12 players (with 3 skum). We have 14. There was a note saying something like "there may be more skum). Assuming that in this case it would not be BOTH of the adds, we are looking at a 3-4 player Skum Team. -----------
- For *reasons*, I do not want to lynch Galz and at this point he is, regardless of everything, my strongest town read.

2) Drunk Ash?
- No idea what to make of this. Insight would be neat. is there a cipher somewhere?
- Vote on him is kind of odd based solely on the reasons stated.


Towny: Eevee, Galz, EFHW

Null-Towny: Robz, MCMC,

Null: IDPTG, Chairs

Null-Skummy: O, Ash, GK

Skummy: Teproc



Request a Vote Count Please :)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 04, 2018, 10:45:32 pm
Not saying you are wrong and I am right for sure, it is def a matter of opinion, but I assume Town frustration on set ups more often than the other way around.

Well, scum!Galz and scum!ashersky were pretty frustrated with the Hammer Hero setup problem in Mafia 100.

I wasn't in that game. I will have to look at it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 04, 2018, 11:49:36 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?

In my opinion, (assuming you're active and are using your shots) the alignment of the possible redirection clarifies some of the results that have been discussed today.

Really?  Everything checks out with night actions without me...
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 04, 2018, 11:53:27 pm
@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?

In my opinion, (assuming you're active and are using your shots) the alignment of the possible redirection clarifies some of the results that have been discussed today.

Really?  Everything checks out with night actions without me...

I'll take another look so I can better articulate what I was talking about.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 05, 2018, 12:39:50 am
Vote Count 2.5

Teproc (1): DatSwan
O (4): ashersky, EFHW, Eevee, Galzria
mcmcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (2): chairs, mcmcsalot
Galzria (2): Teproc, O
ashersky(1): IDontPlayThisGame
IDontPlayThisGame(1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 01:02:51 am
Not saying you are wrong and I am right for sure, it is def a matter of opinion, but I assume Town frustration on set ups more often than the other way around.

Well, scum!Galz and scum!ashersky were pretty frustrated with the Hammer Hero setup problem in Mafia 100.

You're correct. I was. As was Ash. Because that role and setup were broken against scum. You admitted it yourself as the mod, and due to a similarly broke mechanic actually rerolled your next game.

What's broken against scum to be frustrated about here? Assume everybody but me has told the truth and is town. Then town has...?

Alive:
Roleblocker (O; UB)
JoaT with a burned Doc shot (Teproc)
Neighborizer (mcmc)

Dead:
Roleblocker (Joseph)

That's a weak town list still alive. Hell, throw me in and it's still a weak town list still alive. Not to mention scum are all-knowledgeable now. What do I have to fear and gain by blowing the whole thing up as scum?

You're attempting to draw parallels between this game and M100 when, honestly, there's nothing even close even assuming all of the above are town.

The frustration is in the lazy ass argument that "Nah, they're probably all town" - especially from myself knowing I'm a PR. It's in an acceptance and belief that with 13 players, it's "ok and reasonable" to expect 5+ town PR's and 3 scum PR's (as proposed by... EFHW? I think). %62+ of a normal game shouldn't be PR's. Strength is irrelevant. It's about being able to reasonably say/argue - "wait a second, I KNOW I'm a PR. And A claimed PR, and B claimed PR, and C claimed PR, and D claimed PR... well, that's not right". If I wanted to play in that style game (and sometimes I do!) I would sign up for a  Role Madness.

So my base assumption, based on the fact that this is classified as a normal game is that ALL of us aren't actually town.

Regardless, whatever. You can all feel free to disagree. My vote is where I want it and I'm content.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 01:04:38 am
 Sorry, one point wrong above:

You didn't reroll your next game due to a similarly broke mechanic. You DID reroll, and the game DID contain a broken role, but the two issues were not related.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 05, 2018, 03:09:25 am
One of gkriegís posts sounded like ďyou are catching onto me for the wrong reasonsĒ kind of reasoning. 

Cool points for Datswan for catching the song.

Gkrieg missing my clear O tunnel is strange.

Thereís def scum in {Galz - o - Robz - Mcmc - Teproc}, maybe two.

Chairs is town.

Continued LA for another week and a half, but I am reading every day. 
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 05, 2018, 03:10:28 am
On the question from someone about being the lynch with a specific hammerer, def open to it so long as it is to take out the hammerer (and not me) and I agree on the target.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 05, 2018, 03:47:08 am
On the question from someone about being the lynch with a specific hammerer, def open to it so long as it is to take out the hammerer (and not me) and I agree on the target.

If you had to pick a target from you "Thereís def scum in {Galz - o - Robz - Mcmc - Teproc}, maybe two." list - who would it be?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 05, 2018, 04:27:45 am
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 05:10:00 am
Well, I think O is the leat likely person to be scum in the whole game, so congrats !

If gkrieg is town, I don't see how O can be scum at all. Why would he claim to have roleblocked me ? All he has to do is to say he did nothing, and the lynch is either me or gkrieg.

And even if gkrieg is scum, he's putting himself out there by doing that... it could be, though, but I don't see any reason to lynch O over gkrieg (and I'm not as enthusiastic about lynching gkrieg as  before, he's had a townie day 2).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 05:15:14 am
Thinking "they"re probably all town" is not lazy, it simply is the simplest explanation. You (Galz) continue to be incapable of actually explaining why any of this happens if I'm scum, and as explained above I think it's ridiculous to lynch O over gkrieg, but none of you guys seem to be taking the time to actually think this situation through. Which, in your case (and probably Swan's) is pretty easy to explain, because town!you isn't that sloppy. I don't remember who quoted a post of mine saying they agreed but Galz being wrong doesn't make them scum : oh but it does. Town!Galz isn't this wrong.

I've been accused of OMGUSing Galz, and it's completely true. Because town!Galz doesn't S so much, therefore he's scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 05:16:25 am
Everyone voting O should explain exactly why O claimed when he did, and in what world he's scum without gkrieg being scum.

Everyone voting me should explain exactly what role I have and what motivation I had for claiming.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 05:18:20 am
That's a weak town list still alive. Hell, throw me in and it's still a weak town list still alive.

[..]

So my base assumption, based on the fact that this is classified as a normal game is that ALL of us aren't actually town.

This does not even come close to adding up. You can't say "this is underpowered town" AND "this is too much power for town to have in a normal game". I mean, duh. How do you justify that... I mean it's not even a leap of logic, it's just ignoring any notiong of logic at all.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 05:19:17 am
On the question from someone about being the lynch with a specific hammerer, def open to it so long as it is to take out the hammerer (and not me) and I agree on the target.

If you had to pick a target from you "Thereís def scum in {Galz - o - Robz - Mcmc - Teproc}, maybe two." list - who would it be?

This is scum figuring out who is lynchable, not town figuring out who's scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 05, 2018, 07:00:18 am
unvote
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:03:41 am
Actually, I think I want to lynch Swan more than Galz. I've been wrong about Galz before for somewhat similar reasons, but this is exactly the same Swan as in... whataver the game was where I replaced LL and promptly got lynched, but Swan and Skumpy won for the scumteam after that.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:04:17 am
vote: Swan
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:04:39 am
ash, why is chairs town ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 05, 2018, 07:30:02 am
responding to swan. I think its as interesting to me that you wouldn't neiborize galz N0 as you are that I would neighboring robz. It was N0, no reads to go off, no powers to go off, just the fact that lots of the time I decide to signup to play so I have another reason to talk to my brother who I miss, so having a power to be able to talk with him more, I fully believe I would have neighborized him as either allignment.

I can also confirm I did not neighborize robz last night.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 11:46:33 am
I think everyone presenting these 4 candidate lists seems scummy when we have had no role related reason to arbitrarily reduce the lynch pool.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that all four are town (or three are town and MCMC is scum, and just being included because other scum correctly don't think he's a likely lynch)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 11:51:24 am
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 05, 2018, 12:09:15 pm
@DatSwan, I'm wondering why you typed up so much on how Galz is acting strangely when you had already decided he was a strong town read.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 05, 2018, 12:26:46 pm
ash, why is chairs town ?

I also would like to know this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 05, 2018, 03:52:32 pm
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either

I could indeed :)
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on January 05, 2018, 03:57:14 pm
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either

I could indeed :)

We had this argument with Galz already: the O/Teproc scum pairing is like the most unfounded scum pairing of all. Me and mcmc being scumbuddies together makes more sense than that.

Vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 03:58:29 pm
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either

I could indeed :)

We had this argument with Galz already: the O/Teproc scum pairing is like the most unfounded scum pairing of all. Me and mcmc being scumbuddies together makes more sense than that.

Vote: DatSwan

Wrong
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 04:11:40 pm
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either

I could indeed :)

Taking the Galz route of "I'm so much better than you I don't even need to use such base things as logic and arguments" I see.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 04:13:03 pm
Maybe that was unnecessarily agressive, sorry. I am curious how you make that work though (because it really doesn't).
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 04:49:15 pm
Maybe that was unnecessarily agressive, sorry. I am curious how you make that work though (because it really doesn't).

Wrong
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 04:53:13 pm
I get the "don't argue with people who are scum" thing, it's a policy of mine as well... but not for stuff like this. This is not behavioral, this is basic PR/claiming stuff.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 05, 2018, 06:17:41 pm
well I wasted a ton of time typing out a big old thing that just ended in me contradicting myself all over the place. somehow I find myself this early in the game fairly certain of a combo skum team pairing, but as no one seems willing to go for the other half with me for now I will switch to:

vote: O

Can you actually spell out how the Teproc!O combo makes sense?

Like our actions don't disprove it I guess but theres I don't get why you'd assume it either

I could indeed :)

Taking the Galz route of "I'm so much better than you I don't even need to use such base things as logic and arguments" I see.

Nope.
Used logic. If you are Town my logic will not help you r this point. It could help skum tho. So Iím holding it for now. Feel free to ask again later.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 06:30:30 pm
Wait, what ? You're actually not sharing why you think I'm scum ?

That's hilarious actually. I guess that's one way to avoid discussing how poor your arguments are.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 06:32:39 pm
I would strongly encourage people to consider voting DatSwan. Also, deadline is on Monday. We all know how weekends go, so I'd ask people to consider that, I don't particularly want to be in the same situation as day 1 come Monday night.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 06:50:28 pm
I would strongly encourage people to consider voting O. Also, deadline is on Monday. We all know how weekends go, so I'd ask people to consider that, I don't particularly want to be in the same situation as day 1 come Monday night.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:03:18 pm
Again, for people who are not Galz and Swan and don't have mysterious motives (a hint: it has to do with their alignment): it's very hard for O to be scum if gkrieg is not (because why would O claim to have roleblocked me when my claim would have made it me v gkrieg had he said "nope, didn't roleblock Teproc"), which makes him a pretty terrible lynch.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:05:42 pm
Again, for people who are not Galz and Swan and don't have mysterious motives (a hint: it has to do with their alignment): it's very hard for O to be scum if gkrieg is not (because why would O claim to have roleblocked me when my claim would have made it me v gkrieg had he said "nope, didn't roleblock Teproc"), which makes him a pretty terrible lynch.

Wrong. So much wrong here.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:07:14 pm
Well, since you can't explain why that's wrong, I'm going to go ahead and assume it's right.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:08:00 pm
Again, for people who are not Galz and Swan and don't have mysterious motives (a hint: it has to do with their alignment): it's very hard for O to be scum if gkrieg is not (because why would O claim to have roleblocked me when my claim would have made it me v gkrieg had he said "nope, didn't roleblock Teproc"), which makes him a pretty terrible lynch.

Wrong. So much wrong here.

I mean, I still think you're scum before O is, but people don't seem inclined to vote the way so c'est la vie.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:08:53 pm
Well, since you can't explain why that's wrong, I'm going to go ahead and assume it's right.

Just because you've chosen to ignore and dismiss the reasons why it's wrong doesn't mean they don't exist and haven't been said numerous times.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:10:02 pm
Oh right, it works if I'm scum, maybe ? I don't even think it does, because it changes it from scum v town to scum & scum v town, which does not seem like a great deal. Again though, there's very little coherence in any narrative proposed (or myseteriously kept secret because reasons) for why any scumteam involving me would have gone through this whole ordeal in the first place.

PPE: You really haven't. Even if you have, can you please repeat them. I'm very slow and stupid, you need to repeat things for me to understand them.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:12:06 pm
Like, narratives that have me as scum assume that I'm willing to fakeclaim and involve a scumpartner in that fakeclaim to maybe get information on Oracle (while having no particular reason to think I would get that info, because even if I tracked, how would I be able to know I was redirected ?)... so you know.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:15:01 pm
They also assume gkrieg is town, because they rely on me doing all this to know if he targeted me. Which means it's incredibly unlikely that O is scum, for reasons outlined above. So really there's no way lynching O makes any sense.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:18:37 pm
Tep, this isn't that hard.

Scum!O choosing not to claim doesn't set up a forced mislynch scenario between town!Teproc and Town!Gkrieg. It does the opposite of what you're claiming. It forces YOU to claim "I know one of O or Gkrieg is lying so the lynch pool MUST be between them and me".

O claiming REMOVES that argument. It pulls him OUT of a potential forced lynch pool. Claiming is absolutely the correct move for him as scum.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:22:52 pm
Tep, this isn't that hard.

Scum!O choosing not to claim doesn't set up a forced mislynch scenario between town!Teproc and Town!Gkrieg. It does the opposite of what you're claiming. It forces YOU to claim "I know one of O or Gkrieg is lying so the lynch pool MUST be between them and me".

O claiming REMOVES that argument. It pulls him OUT of a potential forced lynch pool. Claiming is absolutely the correct move for him as scum.

No. If O didn't claim, it was going to be gkrieg or me because of gkrieg's refusal to answer my question initially. If you chose to ignore anything that was happening early D1, sure O is in the lynchpool, but that was not the reality of the game.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:23:38 pm
Galz, what are your thoughts on Swan ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:23:54 pm
I mean, my problem is that you're NOT a bad player, but the conclusions you're drawing here are not really thought out.

I get that everybody wants to accept that blindly shooting The series of events fell the way they did, but the fact is that it's FAR easier to accept if you assume there was some guidance to what happened.

Scum killing one Doctor and blocking another is an INCREDIBLY reasonable play. O not understanding ascetic is not alignment indicative, it's just O. And that's far more reasonable than assuming all the night actions resolved from an all-Town perspective. That sort of coincidence just doesn't happen.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 05, 2018, 07:25:29 pm
I am scmreading Galz, but then his post about why O claims as scum is good.  So, yeah.

Chairs is town because heís easy to read, usually, and thatís how I read him today.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 05, 2018, 07:26:05 pm
Iím still liking the O lynch.

Would move to just about anyone to ensure a lynch on Monday.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:26:55 pm
Tep, this isn't that hard.

Scum!O choosing not to claim doesn't set up a forced mislynch scenario between town!Teproc and Town!Gkrieg. It does the opposite of what you're claiming. It forces YOU to claim "I know one of O or Gkrieg is lying so the lynch pool MUST be between them and me".

O claiming REMOVES that argument. It pulls him OUT of a potential forced lynch pool. Claiming is absolutely the correct move for him as scum.

No. If O didn't claim, it was going to be gkrieg or me because of gkrieg's refusal to answer my question initially. If you chose to ignore anything that was happening early D1, sure O is in the lynchpool, but that was not the reality of the game.

That's absolutely the reality man. If you're town and were blocked, and two people could be responsible, YOU may choose to tunnel one - but the fact is that on the assumption you're town then one of EITHER Gkrieg or O is lying. It would be up to the rest of everybody in the game to make that decision. You don't control that. Scum!O has no reason to put himself in that situation when he can simply say "Yeah, I blocked Tep" and it's all over.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 05, 2018, 07:28:09 pm
I will ask ó does O think it through like that?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:29:48 pm
I mean, my problem is that you're NOT a bad player, but the conclusions you're drawing here are not really thought out.

I get that everybody wants to accept that blindly shooting The series of events fell the way they did, but the fact is that it's FAR easier to accept if you assume there was some guidance to what happened.

Scum killing one Doctor and blocking another is an INCREDIBLY reasonable play. O not understanding ascetic is not alignment indicative, it's just O. And that's far more reasonable than assuming all the night actions resolved from an all-Town perspective. That sort of coincidence just doesn't happen.

You keep going back to that idea that the "all town" scenario is unlikely, and that's just patently untrue. It's literally two night actions taken by town that worked out unfortunatly. That's it. One town PR targeting another town PR targeting the kill target. Guessing faust is going to be killed on N1 is not exactly rocket science you know, especially with the possibility of him being a doctor and him having gather little suspicion day 1.

O misunderstanding ascetic IS alignment-indicative! scum!O discussed this with his partners and is therefore much less likely to have misunderstood it (because you need three people to misunderstand it).

Of course scum killing a doctor and blocking another is reasonable play, that was the whole premise of my claim. I don't think O is town because he roleblocked me, I think he's town because he claimed it.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:29:53 pm
Galz, what are your thoughts on Swan ?

I don't feel this is forced poisoner!swan that we saw when you were a mason.

In the Skumpy/Swan/LL game I had LL/Skumpy D1 - Swan was harder for me to read.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 05, 2018, 07:33:16 pm
scum!O might lie about the misunderstanding of course, but if you believe he did misunderstand, then he's much more likely to be town. And again, playing dumb doesn't seem like a scum!O move to me.

It's not just about me tunneling gkrieg if O doesn't claim, it's about gkrieg being much more widely scumread, having a much scarier role and having refused to answer my second question. Scum!O sees that and definitely assumes he's safe if he doesn't claim, gkrieg gets lynched 80% of the time. He almost got lynched the day before, remember ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 07:40:33 pm
I mean, my problem is that you're NOT a bad player, but the conclusions you're drawing here are not really thought out.

I get that everybody wants to accept that blindly shooting The series of events fell the way they did, but the fact is that it's FAR easier to accept if you assume there was some guidance to what happened.

Scum killing one Doctor and blocking another is an INCREDIBLY reasonable play. O not understanding ascetic is not alignment indicative, it's just O. And that's far more reasonable than assuming all the night actions resolved from an all-Town perspective. That sort of coincidence just doesn't happen.

You keep going back to that idea that the "all town" scenario is unlikely, and that's just patently untrue. It's literally two night actions taken by town that worked out unfortunatly. That's it. One town PR targeting another town PR targeting the kill target. Guessing faust is going to be killed on N1 is not exactly rocket science you know, especially with the possibility of him being a doctor and him having gather little suspicion day 1.

O misunderstanding ascetic IS alignment-indicative! scum!O discussed this with his partners and is therefore much less likely to have misunderstood it (because you need three people to misunderstand it).

Of course scum killing a doctor and blocking another is reasonable play, that was the whole premise of my claim. I don't think O is town because he roleblocked me, I think he's town because he claimed it.

There are a handful of assumptions that need to be made for it to work out:

O is Town
O is a PR
O choose to block Teproc

Teproc is town
Teproc is a PR
Teproc choose to target Faust

Scum choose to target Faust

That could, in fact, all be true. Yes. But it's a lot of "if's" all working out. Whereas a much simpler explanation is flipping O from town to scum above. Now the REASONS for the targeting make sense. They don't if O is Town. I mean, what? His defense is that he scum read you and was trying to block a NK? He scum read a number of people. He picks the one person with a potentially useful town PR from that list?

How many people have been inactive? It's entirely possible that no, scum didn't talk about ascetic at night. It was over the holidays and activity was dead.

I personally town read Gkrieg yesterday. Others had not chimed in. His lynch with an unclaiming O is not as black and white as you want to believe.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 07:43:48 pm
I will ask ó does O think it through like that?

Probably not?

If I were Scum!O that would probably be an good trade if I claimed vanilla... keep my mouth shut, get Gkrieg + Teproc lynched, and die after having removed the potential doctor, redirector, one shot doctor + tracker...

Like I'm not going to say that my claiming is some magically exonerating evidence -- but the theories for why I would do it as scum all seem to fail the credibility test compared to the town argument: I'm town, and I claimed it because I did it and that's what town does.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 07:48:05 pm
He picks the one person with a potentially useful town PR from that list?
I
1) thought he had a harmful PR
2) Did not think he'd Doctor D1 as town


but even with both of those... your logic sucks

Scum!Teproc is scumbuddies with others. We've all massclaimed. They suspect there is potentially a roleblocker.
If everyone subscribed to your logic, they could just give Teproc the kill and avoid being blocked at all. It's not like the Tracker/Doctor/(Real) Ascetic shots are that useful as scum.

Even if I didn't fuck up, I should be roleblocking potentially useful PRs some percent of the time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 07:50:02 pm
Like there's some Nash equilibrium here of correct blocking play that results in me blocking town beneficial PRs after a massclaim much higher than 0% of the time
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 08:00:20 pm
I
1) thought he had a harmful PR
It's not like the Tracker/Doctor/(Real) Ascetic shots are that useful as scum.
I should be roleblocking potentially useful PRs some percent of the time.

Wanna try again there with all that reasoning champ?

Scum!Teproc is scumbuddies with others. We've all massclaimed. They suspect there is potentially a roleblocker.

And they suspect that... Why?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:04:19 pm
I
1) thought he had a harmful PR
It's not like the Tracker/Doctor/(Real) Ascetic shots are that useful as scum.
I should be roleblocking potentially useful PRs some percent of the time.

Wanna try again there with all that reasoning champ?

Hey smartass, there's no contradiction here. I first stated my assumptions last night, and then I shifted to arguing why you were wrong even if I was correctly informed.

1) I thought Teproc was a potentially useful SCUM Pr. (Statement 1)  This was incorrect (Statement 2).
2) Even if I didn't, I should block potentially useful TOWN Pr's some percentage of the time.


Scum!Teproc is scumbuddies with others. We've all massclaimed. They suspect there is potentially a roleblocker.

And they suspect that... Why?

Because a roleblocker died and I'm potentially universal backup?

That's why I said potentially..
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on January 05, 2018, 08:13:20 pm
I could get on a Swan wagon. This is reminiscent of scum!Swan from the game I played with him.

@IDPTG: Any thoughts on the whole me/O/gkrieg thing (and on Galz while you're at it) ? What about Robe v mcmc ?

I think a gkrieg flip tells us a lot, but I don"t think that's a reason to lynch him. Not sure what I think if you yet. As for O, I've scumread people in the past for getting set-ups as wrong as this Ascetic deal, but it's never panned out well so I'm inclined to think it's town!O.

As for Robz vs mcmc, I think mcmc is the townier of the two, but it's not a super strong read.

Why does my flip give a lot of information compared to other people?

In my opinion, (assuming you're active and are using your shots) the alignment of the possible redirection clarifies some of the results that have been discussed today.

Really?  Everything checks out with night actions without me...

I'll take another look so I can better articulate what I was talking about.

Sorry about that. I went back to look for it but my memory wasn't correct.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:21:26 pm
I prefer Galzria but could absolutely vote Swan
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on January 05, 2018, 08:23:39 pm
I would also vote Swan if no one wants to join me on ISPTG
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 08:27:39 pm
So O's defense, if it is to be followed, goes thusly:

"Teproc was one of many scum reads I had D1, and I wanted to block a NK. I thought wrongly that his PR was ALSO useful as scum, so blocking him seemed like a double-win. Even though I was wrong about his PR being useful to scum, it's ok, because blocking useful town PR's can be ok sometimes. The fact that I claimed all of this makes me town."

Or, basically:

"I did really anti-Town stuff last night, but I admitted it so I'm town."

Man, who knew playing scum could be so easy.

O, your statement about scum assuming there could potentially be a Roleblocker is you blowing smoke to obfuscate points. They could "potentially" assume any claimed character was in the game. There is no rhyme or reason for them to assume any player over any other player is active.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:32:28 pm
So O's defense, if it is to be followed, goes thusly:

"Teproc was one of many scum reads I had D1, and I wanted to block a NK. I thought wrongly that his PR was ALSO useful as scum, so blocking him seemed like a double-win. Even though I was wrong about his PR being useful to scum, it's ok, because blocking useful town PR's can be ok sometimes. The fact that I claimed all of this makes me town."

Or, basically:

"I did really anti-Town stuff last night, but I admitted it so I'm town."

Man, who knew playing scum could be so easy.

O, your statement about scum assuming there could potentially be a Roleblocker is you blowing smoke to obfuscate points. They could "potentially" assume any claimed character was in the game. There is no rhyme or reason for them to assume any player over any other player is active.

You're flailing again.

I have 2 points. One is that I fucked up. The other is that even though I fucked up, your statement is wrong. My second statement isn't trying to prove my alignment really, just show you that your wrong.


I'm not blowing smoke at all. Scum can assume there is potentially a roleblocker in the game. There's no reason I, a roleblocker, should play in a way that allows them to 100% avoid me by having a potentially townish pr use the kill.

What exactly is wrong about that? Respond to the point instead of saying it's blowing smoke.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: Archetype on January 05, 2018, 08:36:09 pm
Vote Count 2.6

O (4): ashersky, Eevee, Galzria, DatSwan
Robz888 (2): chairs, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): O
ashersky(1): IDontPlayThisGame
IDontPlayThisGame(1): gkrieg13
DatSwan(2): Teproc, Robz888

Not Voting (1): EFHW
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (N0)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:38:17 pm
Vote Count 2.6

Teproc (1): DatSwan
O (5): ashersky, EFHW, Eevee, Galzria, DatSwan
Robz888 (2): chairs, mcmcsalot
Galzria (1): O
ashersky(1): IDontPlayThisGame
IDontPlayThisGame(1): gkrieg13
DatSwan(2): Teproc, Robz888

Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 will end January 8th at 7:00 PM

EFHW unvoted
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:38:48 pm
Also Datswan is double counted
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Archetype on January 05, 2018, 08:48:55 pm
Fixed
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 08:52:32 pm
So O's defense, if it is to be followed, goes thusly:

"Teproc was one of many scum reads I had D1, and I wanted to block a NK. I thought wrongly that his PR was ALSO useful as scum, so blocking him seemed like a double-win. Even though I was wrong about his PR being useful to scum, it's ok, because blocking useful town PR's can be ok sometimes. The fact that I claimed all of this makes me town."

Or, basically:

"I did really anti-Town stuff last night, but I admitted it so I'm town."

Man, who knew playing scum could be so easy.

O, your statement about scum assuming there could potentially be a Roleblocker is you blowing smoke to obfuscate points. They could "potentially" assume any claimed character was in the game. There is no rhyme or reason for them to assume any player over any other player is active.

You're flailing again.

I have 2 points. One is that I fucked up. The other is that even though I fucked up, your statement is wrong. My second statement isn't trying to prove my alignment really, just show you that your wrong.


I'm not blowing smoke at all. Scum can assume there is potentially a roleblocker in the game. There's no reason I, a roleblocker, should play in a way that allows them to 100% avoid me by having a potentially townish pr use the kill.

What exactly is wrong about that? Respond to the point instead of saying it's blowing smoke.

The only one that's been flailing here is you O. Inconsistent arguments at BEST to attempt to explain actions that work far more as scum than as town.

You're trying to argue two ways at the same time:

1) I acted thinking Tep had a scummy PR - I was wrong.
2) I acted thinking Scum might know I was in the game so have their potential townie PR's do the kill.

The Faust kill was obvious? Why would scum do that if there are two potential trackers in the game? Obviously they assumed those were active and would've chosen to play around them, right? I mean, with your (2nd) logic scum is all omniscient about who actively has what so would've played accordingly, right?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 08:55:48 pm

2) I acted thinking Scum might know I was in the game so have their potential townie PR's do the kill.

I am not and have never claimed this. I am providing arguments now that I did not consider or think of during the night, because I thought Teproc had a good for scum PR. I'm not arguing this to defend my towniness -- I'm arguing this to show the holes in your arguments and show your scumminess.

You're willfully misinterpreting me here

I don't have a clue what the Faust bit is about, I've never ever suggested the Faust kill was obvious.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 09:08:37 pm

2) I acted thinking Scum might know I was in the game so have their potential townie PR's do the kill.

I am not and have never claimed this. I am providing arguments now that I did not consider or think of during the night, because I thought Teproc had a good for scum PR. I'm not arguing this to defend my towniness -- I'm arguing this to show the holes in your arguments and show your scumminess.

You're willfully misinterpreting me here

I don't have a clue what the Faust bit is about, I've never ever suggested the Faust kill was obvious.

What argument of mine is it that you think you're poking holes in with that line of arguing? The fact that scum you wants to block useful town PR's more than town you? A) He does, B) It's irrelevant from a town you perspectives because you're claiming that's not why you targeted Teproc anyway.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 05, 2018, 09:15:20 pm

2) I acted thinking Scum might know I was in the game so have their potential townie PR's do the kill.

I am not and have never claimed this. I am providing arguments now that I did not consider or think of during the night, because I thought Teproc had a good for scum PR. I'm not arguing this to defend my towniness -- I'm arguing this to show the holes in your arguments and show your scumminess.

You're willfully misinterpreting me here

I don't have a clue what the Faust bit is about, I've never ever suggested the Faust kill was obvious.

What argument of mine is it that you think you're poking holes in with that line of arguing? The fact that scum you wants to block useful town PR's more than town you? A) He does, B) It's irrelevant from a town you perspectives because you're claiming that's not why you targeted Teproc anyway.

It's not irrelevant. The implication hidden in there is that I made up misreading the role to defend my actions. I'm pointing out that I have no reason to make up misreading the role because my actions would have been defensible regardless... I legitimately just misread the role.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 05, 2018, 09:31:20 pm
I've read all of Galzria's and Teproc's back and forth, and I think they are both right. O claiming is not alignment indicative. He could have had either line of reasoning at the time.

Is the main scummy thing about him that he targeted Teproc? That does fit a scum narrative well, but his story fits, too. If there is more, please elaborate. I thought his initial arguments were fishy, but I'm getting more used to his style now.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 09:31:56 pm

2) I acted thinking Scum might know I was in the game so have their potential townie PR's do the kill.

I am not and have never claimed this. I am providing arguments now that I did not consider or think of during the night, because I thought Teproc had a good for scum PR. I'm not arguing this to defend my towniness -- I'm arguing this to show the holes in your arguments and show your scumminess.

You're willfully misinterpreting me here

I don't have a clue what the Faust bit is about, I've never ever suggested the Faust kill was obvious.

What argument of mine is it that you think you're poking holes in with that line of arguing? The fact that scum you wants to block useful town PR's more than town you? A) He does, B) It's irrelevant from a town you perspectives because you're claiming that's not why you targeted Teproc anyway.

It's not irrelevant. The implication hidden in there is that I made up misreading the role to defend my actions. I'm pointing out that I have no reason to make up misreading the role because my actions would have been defensible regardless... I legitimately just misread the role.

There's no hidden anything there. I do believe you misread it. I believe you looked at it and went:

Well, town me would want to block him because X (this is what you've claimed, from a town perspective, wrong though it was), and scum me wants to block him because of {Doctor, Tracker}, so I can argue having made this choice because of X.

X was wrong, but I do genuinely believe you didn't know that. I think scum you planned on using it as a defense for picking Teproc not realizing it was wrong, and now are using a "Well I fucked up" defense instead.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 05, 2018, 09:32:45 pm
@DatSwan, I'm wondering why you typed up so much on how Galz is acting strangely when you had already decided he was a strong town read.
I am still interested in hearing an answer to this.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 05, 2018, 09:36:58 pm
We need to hear a lot more from Eevee!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 09:45:53 pm
And he appears!

First of all, unvote. Itís terrible I had my vote on him for so long.

Scumreads:
Galzria
Mcmc
Swan
IDPTG
ashersky

Townreads:
Robz
Teproc
O
gkrieg
EFHW (very slight)

chairs was a townread, but itís waning with the lack of recent fuel.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 09:49:24 pm
Robz has consistently seem like the townier side of robz-mcmc arguments. Iím often convinced by mcmcís cases (I think heís especially good in early game scumhunting), but neither the robz or the gkrieg case seemed very credible to me.

Teprocís arguments for Oís towniness really resonated with me, and Galzria and Swan look scummy to me from those exchanges.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 09:53:21 pm
vote: swan seems best because it has two votes already, but I would join if there was movement towards ash or idptg.

I think ashís odd posting could be intentional as scum, I think he more than anyone likes to greater diversions as scum. I didnít sense any attempt at making a point in the post tornado a few nights back, and ashís play otherwise has actually been rather tame, he has made some outrageous claims but hasnít been very adamant about defending or pushing them.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 09:55:55 pm
Itís lrobably partially due to her subbing in, but i feel i donít have a very good handle on what efhw is thinking about the players or events of the game. Same for chairs, but he also hasnít been posting much.

small things: i also donít see mcmc targeting robz n1 as an alignment-indicator, and i think o is slightly more likely to make the setup mistake as town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 09:57:40 pm
And he appears!

First of all, unvote. Itís terrible I had my vote on him for so long.

Scumreads:
Galzria
Mcmc
Swan
IDPTG
ashersky

Townreads:
Robz
Teproc
O
gkrieg
EFHW (very slight)

chairs was a townread, but itís waning with the lack of recent fuel.

I believe every scum is in your town list lol
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 10:03:38 pm
I noticed how much we are disagreeing as well. I concluded that to mean you are mafia.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 05, 2018, 10:04:55 pm
I noticed how much we are disagreeing as well. I concluded that to mean you are mafia.
Iím amused of the possibility of you just being town though. To think how many a Galzria cases and votes Iíve sheeped over the years.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 05, 2018, 10:14:36 pm
I noticed how much we are disagreeing as well. I concluded that to mean you are mafia.
Iím amused of the possibility of you just being town though. To think how many a Galzria cases and votes Iíve sheeped over the years.

I'm right more than not. It's not always a bad idea.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Archetype on January 06, 2018, 12:25:36 am
theorel has replaced chairs
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 06, 2018, 12:27:23 am
I think town!O blocks me 90-93% of the time.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 06, 2018, 12:28:45 am
I think town!O blocks me 90-93% of the time.

you vastly overestimated my seriousness in the Robz!Ashersky conspiracy theory if you think this is remotely true
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 06, 2018, 12:41:02 am
I think town!O blocks me 90-93% of the time.

you vastly overestimated my seriousness in the Robz!Ashersky conspiracy theory if you think this is remotely true

Convenient
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Galzria on January 06, 2018, 12:41:21 am
theorel has replaced chairs

Theorel!
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: O on January 06, 2018, 12:47:01 am
oh my
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 06, 2018, 03:08:34 am
I was trying to convince myself it was O.
Itís either Teproc and players x or maybe Teproc and O but Iím not voting anyone but Teproc today. Eevee go read stuff. You are on the nut low rn.

<b>vote:Teproc<\b>

Join me Town.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: ashersky on January 06, 2018, 04:20:29 am
Obligatory QT scumslip.
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on January 06, 2018, 04:22:25 am
I was trying to convince myself it was O.
Itís either Teproc and players x or maybe Teproc and O but Iím not voting anyone but Teproc today. Eevee go read stuff. You are on the nut low rn.

<b>vote:Teproc<\b>

Join me Town.
What makes you think (and be so sure) itís teproc?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 06, 2018, 04:54:09 am
I was
I was trying to convince myself it was O.
Itís either Teproc and players x or maybe Teproc and O but Iím not voting anyone but Teproc today. Eevee go read stuff. You are on the nut low rn.

<b>vote:Teproc<\b>

Join me Town.
What makes you think (and be so sure) itís teproc?
1) he has never mis read me before this game
2) his arguments with Galz seem forced
3) his interactions with O seemed forced

Thereís more i guess, but honestly at this point (holidays understood and all) it is the lack of effort that is losing the game. Either O or Teproc are skum, maybe both. Whatever. My thoughts are if the majority is leaning O then if they are both not skum, it is most likely Teproc.

Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 06, 2018, 04:56:24 am
Obligatory QT scumslip.
Obligatory useless comment?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on January 06, 2018, 04:56:59 am
I was trying to convince myself it was O.
Itís either Teproc and players x or maybe Teproc and O but Iím not voting anyone but Teproc today. Eevee go read stuff. You are on the nut low rn.

<b>vote:Teproc<\b>

Join me Town.
What makes you think (and be so sure) itís teproc?

What makes you so sure i am skum?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 06, 2018, 05:48:12 am
I was
I was trying to convince myself it was O.
Itís either Teproc and players x or maybe Teproc and O but Iím not voting anyone but Teproc today. Eevee go read stuff. You are on the nut low rn.

<b>vote:Teproc<\b>

Join me Town.
What makes you think (and be so sure) itís teproc?
1) he has never mis read me before this game
2) his arguments with Galz seem forced
3) his interactions with O seemed forced

Thereís more i guess, but honestly at this point (holidays understood and all) it is the lack of effort that is losing the game. Either O or Teproc are skum, maybe both. Whatever. My thoughts are if the majority is leaning O then if they are both not skum, it is most likely Teproc.



1. Demonstrably false. You were one of my strongest town reads in the first few days of Lost Mafia (O can attest to that), and I'm pretty sure I suspected you quite a bit in Time Managment at various points before we lynched scum.

2. Whatever.

3. This I'm curious about. How so ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 06, 2018, 05:49:02 am
I think town!O blocks me 90-93% of the time.

You said earlier in this game (I'll dig it up in a second) the exact same thing with me instead of you. What are you doing this game ash ?
Title: Re: M111: Super Smash Bros Melee (Day 2)
Post by: Teproc on January 06, 2018, 05:50:35 am