Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Robz888 on September 15, 2017, 02:41:32 pm
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This is the orientation post for Mafia 108: Lost Mafia by Robz and Mcmc.
Hello, new recruits! My name is Dr. Pierre Chang, and on behalf of everyone at the Dharma Initiative, and our sponsors, the Hanso Foundation and f.ds, let me be the first to welcome you to the island. We plan to enroll you in our exciting Pick Your Power setup, an open, modified, version of the protocol followed in Mafia 100. Please confirm your participation in our utopian social community (and indemnify us against legal responsibility in the unlikely event of your death due to an electromagnetic implosion or polar bear attack) by signing up below.
1. LaLight
2. Galzria
3. gkrieg
4. 2.71828.....
5. Archetype
6. Teproc
7. Witherweaver
8. IDontPlayThisGame
9. Datswan
10. Eevee
11. Qvist
12. RoadRunner
13. faust
14. SpaceAnemone
15. Iguanaiguana
16. Jimmmmm
17. O
Before the game begins, you will undergo a psychological examination and aptitude test designed to evaluate your capabilities. You will then be ranked based on your responses. We assure you, this process is quite painless.
Next, it will be time to assign work orders! You can volunteer for a specific task by heading to the Dharma station affiliated with that job. New recruits who are interested in the medical profession, for instance, should visit the Staff Station. There are also several secret areas on the island where stranger jobs will be assigned, but this information is currently restricted to Dharma personnel with a security clearance of Level 8 or higher.
We urge you to ignore the rumor that the latest recruitment class actually consists of the time-traveling survivors of various shipwrecks and plane crashes. There is no truth to it.
Similarly, the theory that some members of the Dharma Initiative are actually Hostiles--indigenous native inhabitants bent on destroying us--is baseless. The Hostiles would never think of breaking our truce with them, and they are certainly not planning to purge us from the island. (We are the causes of our own suffering.)
Namaste, and good luck.
Rules:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments. All players must have read, understood, and agreed to the Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0).
- No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
- If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
- Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
- Players must post once every 24-48 hours unless they have an announced V/LA. We are less strict about this than other mods, but please, if you agree to play the game, please play the game.
- Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
- Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed. Do not use the same font colors as the mods.
- Cryptography is not allowed, which includes coded breadcrumbs. We are more strict about this than other mods. See this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17200.msg690003#msg690003)for examples of things I consider to be cryptography. If you are trying to set up some kind of code, it's probably illegal, and you should ask me first.
- The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
- Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
- Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
- Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Votes must be bolded, must contain a colon, and there must be space between the colon and the player's name. Improperly formatted votes may or may not be counted, based on mod disrection. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
- Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
- Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from oneplayer to another.
- You may vote: no lynch.
- Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
The Rest:
- If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the mods. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
- Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via QT or PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
- Prods will be issued by request after 24-48 hours of inactivity unless otherwised covered by a VLA. Players are subject to replacement or modkill upon the third prod request.
- All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
Deadlines:
- Days will last seven IRL days.
- Nights will generally last two IRL days, but might in certain cases last longer.
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Setup
This game includes 12 Town-aligned Crash Survivors, 4 Mafia-Aligned Others, and 1 Serial Killer-aligned Smoke Monster.
-- All players will engage in a draft ordering process (as in Mafias 40 and 100). The method will not be explained ahead of time. The mafia team will be permitted to talk and collude at all stages of the drafting process, including the ordering.
-- Afterward, players will bid on power roles, which have been organized into slots. If multiple players bid on the same slot, even if they bid on different powers, the player with the lower position in the draft gets the power, and everyone else becomes a vanilla member of their faction.
-- In this game, kill flavor is indicative of role/alignment. Please note the following:
Others and the Day Vigilante kill with guns
The Smoke Monster kills by crushing victims to death
The Poisoner kills with poison
The Bomb kills by detonating an electromagnetic blast
Lynched players are crossed off Jacob’s list
All deaths fall under one of the above categories, and will be noted as such upon flip.
Alignment PMs are listed below.
Crash Survivors
You are a Crash Survivor! You arrived on the island by accident, and after it started skipping through time, you were mistaken for a Dharma Initiative recruit. You know how it ends for Dharma (not well), so you'd like to get out this situation as soon as possible.
You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. You lose if all Crash Survivors are dead, or if the Smoke Monster eliminates the Candidates and leaves the island.
Others
You are an Other! Your people have been known by many names over the years, including the Hostiles, the Natives, and simply, “Them.” You are here for a reason, though you're not quite sure what it is. In practice, you end up killing a lot of people.
You win when yours is the only faction left alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening. You lose if all Others are dead, or if the Smoke Monster eliminates the Candidates and leaves the island.
At night, one of the Others may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PRs from the draft.
Smoke Monster
You are the Smoke Monster! Your goal is to kill Jacob’s precious Candidates so that you are finally free to leave the island and extinguish the light… everywhere.
You win when all six Candidates have been eliminated and you are still alive. This is a difficult task, so you may take advantage of a number of special powers, or “loopholes.”
At night, you may perform the factional kill.
You are also an Even-Night Commuter and an Odd-Night Candidate Checker. On even nights, you may choose to commute. If you commute, you can take no other actions and all actions taken against you will fail.
On odd nights, you may choose another player to check and see if this player is a candidate. This is a unique action--it’s called a “check” rather than an investigation--and cannot fail or be mis-directed in any way, by any other power or status (including Investigation Immunity and Godfather).
Commuting and checking always succeed: they happen outside normal power resolution.
You may kill and check in the same night. You may not commute and kill in the same night.
You may also gain a PR from the draft.
It is possible for you to be one of the Candidates. If you are a Candidate, you do not have to kill yourself--you only have to eliminate the five other Candidates. You will have access to the Candidate QT, and can become the Leader of the Candidates. (Note: This will obsolete your Odd-Night Candidate Check power, since you will already know all the Candidates.)
For balance purposes, if you are a Candidate, and you eliminate the five other Candidates for the win, you must survive one additional game phase (day or night) after the last Candidate’s death.
This same condition applies if you choose the Recruit Mother PR and Mother is chosen as one of the Candidates. (You do not need to kill Mother, but you do need to survive an additional game phase after the other five are eliminated. See the Mother Role PM for additional info.)
Candidates (Any alignment)
Candidates are picked at random, independent of role or alignment, after all other phases of the draft have ended. The Serial Killer could even be a Candidate.
Candidates have a QT with day chat, but no night chat. During the day, they may vote amongst themselves for a Leader. Candidates cast their votes in private, in their own QTs, and may vote for themselves. The Leader—the Candidate who receives the most votes (or reaches 2 votes first in case of a tie)—may perform an investigative action that night; the Leader can investigate any player to learn whether this player is the Smoke Monster.
The Leader will receive the result: “Smoke Monster” if the target is the Smoke Monster, “Not Smoke Monster,” if not, or “No Result” if the action is thwarted.
The next day, the Candidates may select a different Leader, or the same one.
If the Smoke Monster dies, the Candidate QT locks permanently.
QTs
A note about QTs: It is illegal to quote directly from any QT into the main thread or another QT, other than a personal QT.
If a faction (other than town) has access to the Candidates QT--because one of its members is a Candidate--then the entire faction will receive access to the QT, though only the member who is a Candidate can post in it. If Others-aligned Player X is a Candidate, a link to the Candidate QT will appear in the Others QT.
Whenever a Candidate dies, a new QT for the Candidates will be sent out to all people entitled to access it. If all Others-aligned Candidates have been eliminated, then the new Candidates QT link would not be posted in the Others QT. The Others would lose access to the Candidates QT, but the surviving Candidates would not know that there were no more Others in their ranks.
Role Slots
The Hydra (Station One)
Jailkeeper
Godfather
The Arrow (Station Two)
Strongman (Others and SM only)
Gunsmith
The Swan (Station Three)
Masons (Town only)
Bomb
The Flame (Station Four)
Role Cop
1-Shot Day Vigilante
The Pearl (Station Five)
Watcher
Investigation Immune
The Orchid (Station Six)
2-Shot Redirector
Summon “Mother” (SM only)
The Staff (Station Seven)
Doctor
1-Shot Kill Proof
The Looking Glass (Station Eight)
Roleblocker
Bodyguard
The Tempest (Station Nine)
Poisoner
Ninja (Others and SM only)
The Lamp Post (Station Ten)
Double Shot Candidate Cop
Tracker
The Statue of Tawret
Protector of the Island
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
The Bamboo Forest
Last Recruit
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town only)
The Cabin
1-Shot Disabler
Night 3 Forensic Scientist
The Dharma Initiative Barracks
Random
Random
Random
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Role PMs
Jailkeeper -- Sayid Jarrah
You are the Jailkeeper!
At night, you may target another player. That player’s actions will fail, and also, the player will be protected from a kill.
A jailed player can still be investigated. A jailed player cannot be poisoned, but can succumb to poison that was administered the previous night. If the Jailkeeper is roleblocked, the jailing will fail, even if the Jailkeeper targeted the Roleblocker.
Godfather -- Charles Widmore
You are the Godfather!
During Night 0, you may choose exactly which results the following investigative roles would receive if they targeted you. You may choose any role (including Vanilla) for the Role Cop, “Yes” or “No” for the Gunsmith, “Candidate” or “Not a Candidate” for the Double Shot Candidate Cop, and “Smoke Monster” or “Not Smoke Monster,” for the Leader’s investigation.
Strongman -- Martin Keamy
You are the Strongman!
If you perform a killing action, that action will succeed, even if you are blocked or your target is protected, unless multiple blocks or protections are deployed. The Strongman effect does not help against commuting, however.
Gunsmith -- Danielle Rousseau
You are the Gunsmith!
At night, you may target a player. You will learn if that player is capable of killing with a gun. You will receive the result, “Yes,” if the player is capable of killing with a gun, “No,” if not, and “No Result,” if your action is thwarted.
The 1-Shot Day Vigilante, and all Others, are capable of killing with guns.
Masons -- Jin and Sun Kwon
You are a Mason!
After the draft is finished, a random Vanilla Crash Survivor will become a fellow Mason. (If there are no VTs left, which is technically possible though unlikely, a random townie with a PR will be chosen. This townie will retain that PR and become a Mason.) You are confirmed town to each other. You will receive a QT with this player. This QT remains open at all times.
Bomb -- Desmond Hume
You are the Bomb!
If you are killed by any means other than a lynch, you will immediately be given the option of targeting a player and performing a killing action. That player will die, unless blocking or protection is in effect. You will not be told which player killed you, nor are you required to kill.
Role Cop -- James "Sawyer" Ford
You are the Role Cop!
At night, you may target a player. You will learn this player’s role, but not this player’s alignment. If the player does not have a role, you will receive the result “Vanilla,” regardless of that player’s alignment. If your action is thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”
Both Masons will investigate as Masons.
If the Smoke Monster did not receive a role from the draft, the Smoke Monster will investigate as “Vanilla.” (The Even-Night Commuter / Odd-Night Candidate Checker status is not detected by the Role Cop.) If the Smoke Monster chose to Summon Mother, the Smoke Monster will investigate as “Vanilla,” but the player who became Mother will investigate as whatever PR this player chose from the three options presented (or “Vanilla,” if Mother was not able to choose a compatible PR).
1-Shot Day Vigilante -- Kate Austen
You are the 1-Shot Day Vigilante!
Once, during the day, you may target a player by posting Kill: X (where “X” is the player you wish to kill) in the main thread. This must be done in bold. The player you targeted will die immediately, unless otherwise protected.
This will not cause the day to end. It will reset all votes and extend deadline by 24 hours.
You cannot do this during twilight. Your kill command must be posted before a hammer vote is cast.
Shots are not recovered, even if they are prevented from succeeding.
Watcher -- Penelope Widmore
You are the Watcher!
At night, you may target another player. You will learn which players, other than you, targeted that player during this night.
If the player you watched was targeted by no one else, or your action was thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”
Investigation Immune -- Benjamin Linus
You are Investigation Immune!
If you are targeted by a Gunsmith, Role Cop, Double Shot Candidate Cop, or the Leader’s investigation, you will return the result: “No Result.”
2-Shot Redirector -- Daniel Faraday
You are the 2-Shot Redirector!
At night, twice during the game, you may target two different players, designating them players A and B. You may self-target. You may target dead players. Whatever happens to Player A will instead happen to Player B.
If a Redirector is roleblocked or jailed, the action will fail, unless the Redirector opted to redirect actions taken against the Redirector to another player, in which case, the other player would be roleblocked or jailed.
Shots are not recovered, even if they are prevented from succeeding.
Summon “Mother”
You chose to summon “Mother.” You can only pick this option if you are the Smoke Monster.
A random Vanilla Crash Survivor will be converted to “Mother.” (If there are no VTs left, which is technically possible though unlikely, a random townie with an SK-compatible PR will be chosen.) Assuming Mother does not already have a PR, she will be presented with three random unchosen PRs (SK compatibility not guaranteed) and can choose one. Mother is a Smoke Monster-aligned player who shares the Smoke Monster’s win condition. Mother and the Smoke Monster receive a QT that is always open.
Mother cannot perform the factional kill, or any other killing action, unless the Smoke Monster is dead.
If the Smoke Monster dies, the faction can no longer win by eliminating all the Candidates. Instead, the faction wins in the traditional manner of an SK: by eliminating all other players. If Mother is the last player left alive, Mother and the Serial Killer win.
It is guaranteed that the Smoke Monster and Mother will not both be Candidates, though one could be. If Mother is a Candidate, the Smoke Monster does not need to kill Mother to satisfy their win condition.
Mother will investigate as “Smoke Monster” if successfully investigated by the Leader of the Candidates. The Candidates’ QT will not close unless both Mother and the Smoke Monster are dead.
Doctor -- Jack Shephard
You are the Doctor!
At night, you may target another player. That player will be protected from a kill.
This will not stop a player from being poisoned, but if a player would have succumbed to poison on the night you protect the player, the player will not die.
This will not stop a Strongman kill.
1-Shot Kill Proof -- Richard Alpert
You are 1-Shot Kill Proof!
Once at night, if you are targeted by a killing action that would have succeeded if not for this PR, you will survive. This power is passive. You do not need to activate it, and it cannot be blocked or redirected. It can, however, be disabled.
You will only survive a single successful killing action. You will succumb to multiple successful killing actions, or a Strongman kill.
This will not stop a player from being poisoned, but it will stop a player from succumbing to poison.
Roleblocker -- Ethan Rom
You are the Roleblocker!
At night, you may target a player. That player’s actions will fail.
If a Roleblocker and Jailkeeper target each other, only the Jailkeeper will be blocked. If a Roleblocker and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, only the 1-Shot Roleblocker will be blocked.
Bodyguard -- Boone Carlyle
You are the Bodyguard!
At night, you may target a player. If the player you targeted would have died that night, you will die instead.
Other actions will still affect the player you target. The player you target can still be poisoned, but if the player would have succumbed to poison, the player will live and you will die instead.
If the player you target is hit by multiple kills that would have been successful if not for the Bodyguard, then that player will die and you will die. If a Strongman kills your target, your target will die but you will live.
Poisoner -- Juliet Burke
You are the Poisoner!
At night, you may target a player. One full night later, that player will die.
If the player is protected on the night the player would succumb to poison, the player will survive. A jailed player cannot be poisoned, but a jailed player can succumb to poisoning.
Ninja -- Dogen
You are the Ninja!
If you perform a killing action, that kill will not be detected by a Tracker, Watcher, or the Night 3 Forensic Scientist.
Double Shot Candidate Cop -- Christian Shephard
You are the Double Shot Candidate Cop!
At night, you may target two player. You will learn whether those players are Candidates. You will receive the result “Candidate,” “Not a Candidate,” or “No Result” if the action was thwarted, for each target.
Tracker -- Eloise Hawking
You are the Tracker!
At night, you may target a player. You will learn which players were targeted by that player during this night.
If the player you tracked targeted no one, or your action was thwarted, you will receive the result, “No Result.”
Protector of the Island -- Hugo "Hurley" Reyes
You are the Protector of the Island!
Once, during any phase of the game (day or night), the Protector of the Island may choose to protect the Candidates by posting Protect: Candidates in the player’s personal QT. This action will automatically target all living Candidates. Until that phase is over, no Candidate can be killed.
This is a one-shot power. If used during the day, it will not retroactively prevent a Day Vigilante kill that happened before the protection was activated. It will protect Candidates from being lynched.
If used at night, it will fail if the Protector of the Island is roleblocked, jailed, or disabled, and it will not stop Strongman kills. The action can be tracked and watched. The protection can also be redirected if a Candidate is targeted by a 2-Shot Redirector.
Jack of All Trades -- Tom Friendly
You are the Jack of All Trades!
You are a 1-Shot Strongman, 1-Shot Ninja, and 1-Shot Roleblocker. Once, if you perform a killing action, you can choose to make it a Strong kill. The kill will succeed, even if blocked or protected, unless multiple blocks or protections are used.
Once, if you perform a killing action, you can choose to make it a Ninja kill. The kill cannot be tracked, watched, or detected by a Night 3 Forensic Scientist.
Once, at night, you may roleblock a player. This player’s actions will fail. If a Roleblocker and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, only the 1-Shot Roleblocker will be blocked. If a Jailkeeper and 1-Shot Roleblocker target each other, only the Jailkeeper will be blocked.
Last Recruit -- John Locke
You are the Last Recruit!
This means you will automatically be made one of the six Candidates. The other five Candidates will be determined randomly.
The other Candidates will not be told that you became a Candidate via a different selection method than they did.
Day 2 Innocent Child -- Aaron Littleton
You are the Innocent Child!
If you are still alive at the start of Day 2, the mod will publicly confirm you as Crash Survivors-aligned.
1-Shot Disabler -- Charlotte Lewis
You are the 1-Shot Disabler!
Once, at night, you may disable one of the following categories of PRs. All of those PRs will fail.
Protecting (Doctor, 1-Shot Kill Proof, Protector of the Island)
Blocking (Jailkeeper, Roleblocker, 1-Shot Roleblocker)
Investigating (Gunsmith, Role Cop, Double Shot Candidate Cop, Leader’s investigation)
Observing (Tracker, Watcher, Night 3 Forensic Scientist)
Redirecting (2-Shot Redirector)
This action will fail if you are blocked or jailed, unless “blocking” was the category you chose to disable.
Jailkeeper falls solely under the “blocking” category. If blocking is disabled, all aspects of the Jailkeeper’s power will fail, including the protection. But if protection is disabled, a Jailkeeper could still protect a player.
Shots are not recovered, even if they are prevented from succeeding.
Night 3 Forensic Scientist -- Miles Straume
You are the Night 3 Forensic Scientist!
During Night 3, you may target one dead player. You will be told the names of all players (other than you) who targeted this player at any point during the game.
If a Ninja kill was used against the player you targeted, this action would not be detected by the Night 3 Forensic Scientist.
Dharma Initiative Barracks
You have chosen to visit the Dharma Initiative Barracks!
You will be presented with three random roles that were unclaimed during the draft. You may choose one of these roles for yourself.
There is no guarantee that the roles will be of use to you, or compatible with your alignment.
For balance purposes, all Others-aligned and Smoke Monster-aligned players will be told exactly which roles were presented here.
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Secondary Win Conditions
Each player will receive the secondary “flavor” win condition corresponding with the role they received from the draft. All players, regardless of alignment, will also be assigned a “fake” VT flavor win condition that can be safely claimed without risk of counterclaim. If you did not receive a power role from the draft, then the VT secondary wincon becomes your actual secondary wincon.
Some secondary "flavor" win conditions are much more difficult to meet than others. A few will be impossible to meet if certain other roles are not present in the game. These are purely for fun; meeting the win condition will not impact the outcome of the game.
You will not be told whether you fulfilled your flavor win con until the end of the game.
Jailkeeper - Sayid Jarrah
“My name is Sayid Jarrah and I am a torturer.”
Your secondary wincon is to jail Benjamin Linus.
Godfather - Charles Widmore
“That island is mine, Benjamin. It always was. It will be again.”
Your secondary wincon is to kill Alex Rousseau while having outlived Benjamin Linus.
Strongman - Martin Keamy
“I’ve never really been one for talk.”
Your secondary wincon is to successfully kill at least three players.
Gunsmith - Danielle Rousseau
“Know this: he will lie. A long time, he will lie.”
Your secondary wincon is to successfully investigate an Other, and then lynch that Other while you are still alive.
Masons - Jin and Sun
“You don’t know what my husband is capable of.”
Your secondary wincon is this: if the game ends, and Jin is still alive, Sun’s condition is fulfilled. If the game ends, and Sun is still alive, Jin’s condition is fulfilled.
Bomb - Desmond
“See you in another life, brother.”
Your secondary win condition is this: you win if you ever successfully use your bomb power to kill a player who does not share your alignment, or if Penelope Widmore watches you.
Role Cop - James “Sawyer” Ford
“That’s for taking the kid off the raft.”
Your secondary wincon is to participate in the lynch of Tom Friendly.
One Shot Day Vigilante - Kate Austen
“I saved you a bullet.”
Your secondary wincon is this: if the game ends and you have not killed any townies, you win.
Watcher - Penelope Widmore
“I’ll find you.”
Your secondary wincon is to watch Desmond Hume.
Investigation Immune - Benjamin Linus
“What was so wrong with me? What about me?”
Your secondary wincon is to find and kill Penelope Widmore while having outlived Charles Widmore.
2 Shot Redirector - Daniel Faraday
“Rescuing you and your people… I can’t really say it’s our primary objective.”
Your secondary wincon is to successfully redirect two actions.
Summon Mother - Mother
The player who becomes Mother will receive the secondary wincon affiliated with the PR she chooses.
Doctor - Jack Shephard
“I didn’t fix you. You fixed me.”
Your secondary wincon is to successfully prevent a night kill.
1 Shot Kill Proof - Richard Alpert
“I don’t want to die… I want to live forever.”
Your secondary wincon is to survive to the end of the game.
Roleblocker - Ethan Romm
“If you do not stop following me, I will kill one of them.”
Your secondary wincon is to successfully block four night actions.
Bodyguard - Boone
“I’m letting you off the hook.”
Your secondary wincon is to die in place of a Candidate.
Poisoner - Juliet Burke
“Free will is all we’ve got, right? (It has to look like an accident.)”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if Benjamin Linus succumbs to poison, or if James “Sawyer” Ford role cops you.
Ninja - Dogen
“It is sundown. Will you choose to stay or go?”
Your secondary wincon is this: You win if you are ever elected Leader of the Candidates, or if the Leader of the Candidates chooses to investigate you.
Double Shot Candidate Cop - Christian Shepherd
“Some people are just supposed to suffer.”
You secondary wincon is this: you win if you successfully investigate all the Candidates, or if Jack fails to save anyone from dying.
Tracker - Eloise Hawking
“The universe, unfortunately, has a way of course-correcting.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you track someone who targets Daniel Faraday, or if you track Charles Widmore.
Protector of the Island - Hugo “Hurley” Reyes
“Let’s look death in the face and say, ‘whatever, man.’”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if someone tries to kill a Candidate while the Candidates are under your protection.
JOAT - Tom Friendly
“This is our island. And the only reason you’re living on it is because we let you live on it.”
Your secondary wincon is to never be “caught” as scum (i.e., because you were investigated, or observed doing something incriminating).
The Last Recruit - John Locke
“Don’t tell me what I can’t do.”
Your secondary wincon is to never be lynched.
Day 2 Innocent Child - Aaron Littleton
“...”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if neither Claire Littleton nor Kate Austen are killed.
1-Shot Disabler - Charlotte Lewis
“This place is death!”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you successfully disable at least one player.
Night Three Forensic Scientist - Miles Straum
“Don’t worry, 80% of the people on this boat are lying about something.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if the you participate in the lynch of the person who killed the player you observed on Night 3.
Vanillas:
Claire Littleton
“My baby!”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if Aaron Littleton is still alive on Day 3.
Alex Rousseau
“Please, Daddy! Please.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you outlive Keamy.
Rose Nadler
“If you say 'live together, die alone' to me, Jack, I'll smack you across the face.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if both you and Bernard are still alive at the end of the game.
Bernard Nadler
“Now that’s karma. We must be the good guys.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if both you and Rose are still alive at the end of the game.
Charlie Pace
“Guys, where are we?”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you write “NOT PENNY’S BOAT” in the main thread in all capital letters.
Shannon Rutherford
“Why don’t you believe me? I need you to believe me.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you find your inhaler. Once, during each phase of the game, you may post in your personal QT: search X (where X is one of the Dharma stations or locations). The inhaler will be at one of these places (at random).
Ana-Lucia Cortez
“You tell anyone about this, and I'll kill you.”
Your secondary win con is this: you win if you are the hammer vote.
Libby
“Michael?”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you are nightkilled.
Walt Lloyd
“Don’t open that thing. Don’t open it.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you find Vincent. Once, during each phase of the game, you may post in your personal QT: search X (where X is one of the Dharma stations or locations). Vincent will be at one of these places (at random).
Michael Dawson
“WAAAAAALT!”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you build the raft by recruiting two of Sawyer, Jin, and Kate. Once, during each night, you may post in your personal QT: recruit playername (you will not be told the the flavor name of the player you recruit nor when you have completed this wincon).
Frank Lapidus
“We’re not going to Guam, are we?”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if at least six other players meet their secondary wincons.
Cindy Chandler
“We’re here to watch.”
Your secondary wincon is to live to the end of the game.
Mr. Eko
“Take me to the question mark.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if the church is built. Every time a player ends the day not voting for someone 1/15 of the church is built.
Nikki
“[Something something diamonds.]”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you outlive Paolo.
Paolo
“[Something something diamonds.]”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you outlive Nikki.
Dr. Leslie Arzt
“Did you hear about the guy who invented nitroglycerin? He blew his freakin' face off!”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if you are on wagon for three scum lynches.
Naomi
“Tell my sister I love her.”
Your secondary wincon is this: you win if at least six players do not meet their secondary wincons.
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All players will receive a personal QT detailing their alignment in a moment. Once you do, please select a number to determine your place in the draft order. Mafia may communicate during this phase.
(Plant a good seed and you will joyfully gather fruit.)
To confirm receipt of your QT, and determine your place in the draft, you only have to do one thing: Submit a number (in your QT) between 1 and 99 (1 and 99 are acceptable choices).
The goal is to have a unique "Lost" number (these numbers are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42), or the closest unique number. If someone picks the number you picked, you get moved to the back of the draft along with that person. If two people picked your number, all three of you move even further back. Ties in draft position are broken randomly. It works like this:
-- Unique Lost numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 -- low beats high)
-- Unique non-Lost numbers, ranked by “score,” where your score is the difference between your number and the closest Lost number. Again, low number beats high. “7” and “41” both have a score of one, but 7 is lower than 41, so 7 wins.
-- Duplicate Lost numbers (low beats high)
-- Duplicate non-Lost numbers, ranked by score as above
-- Triplicate Lost numbers
-- Triplicate non-Lost numbers
-- And so on
Note: The mafia team will be allowed to communicate during the number-picking phase and drafting phase.
The rule that the numbers will affect the Smoke Monster's placement has been deleted. The numbers will not affect the Smoke Monster's draft order. Also, you will be free to share what number you picked once the game begins.
Please make your choices immediately. Thank you. Namaste.
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We will not be supplying new QTs, except for the Others, so check your old QT, folks.
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This thread is unlocked for /tagging ONLY.
Also, in case we haven't met, I'm Horace Goodspeed, head of the Dharma Initiative on the island. I was off taking a vacation with the missus when things got crazy the other day. Dr. Chang was injured during the an Incident at the Swan station involving the time-loop-restart, so I'll be filling in while he recuperates. We're all wishing Dr. Chang a speedy recovery. All he needs is love.
I'm more of a laid back kinda guy than Dr. Chang, but we're already running behind schedule, so please pick your numbers quickly, or else we'll have Radzinksy on our asses. You know, man?
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/tag
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Cool. Everybody should have their order positions now, so go ahead and sign up for a job by submitting a bid for one of the Power Roles. Highest priority draftee wins the power, and anybody else who bid for that slot becomes vanilla. You've got 24 hours.
You don't have to work too hard, though... the island is like, an experience, man.
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Day 1 will begin tomorrow, Monday, at 2 PM. So take a load off until then.
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THREAD UNLOCKED. Day 1 begins now. Get to work, but don't work too hard. And if you get into any trouble, I don't want to know about it, man. Truce and all.
Godspeed.
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Good news everyone! I'm town this time.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Also, with Space's knowledge of what was up last time, I'm very glad we started over! And while I would've loved being partners with faust, I think we make a horrible team for a game this long!
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I guess we're massclaiming in post order? I, too, am town.
vote: LaLight because he isn't.
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oh i think that would be really hard for you two
By the way Robz didn't mention it (though I asked), but I won last time with NOT PENNY'S BOAT
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
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Apologies to little Ben that we had to cancel his birthday party. But there's always next year, right?
Vote Count 1.0
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Not Voting (16): Galzria, gkrieg, Archetype, Witherweaver, DatSwan, Eevee, Qvist, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm, LaLight, O, faust, 2.71828, Teproc
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Hiiii
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NOT PENNY'S BOAT
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oh i think that would be really hard for you two
By the way Robz didn't mention it (though I asked), but I won last time with NOT PENNY'S BOAT
There's this strange island dude named Jacob who might confirm this if you ask him really nicely, but only if he actually exists.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
We'll know by D2.
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So....claiming anything?
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
We'll know by D2.
Right, we'll lynch him Day 2 if he's still alive. Scum, act accordingly.
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So....claiming anything?
We're claiming if we're town. And you didn't.
Vote: e
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Crashed again. Feels like a deja vu.
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So....claiming anything?
We're claiming if we're town. And you didn't.
Vote: e
Oh, ok. I am town.
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
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I am just wondering how much I should just go out and play exactly how I want to even though I know it will cause certain people to scum read me.
(i.e. claim stuff whenever I feel like it regardless of "town's" wishes)
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I do feel like some people tend to over value group opinion over what they think. In my opinion it is very easy for scum to follow group think, harder to branch out on their own
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I do feel like some people tend to over value group opinion over what they think. In my opinion it is very easy for scum to follow group think, harder to branch out on their own
So....claiming anything?
We're claiming if we're town. And you didn't.
Vote: e
Oh, ok. I am town.
dotdotdot
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I do feel like some people tend to over value group opinion over what they think. In my opinion it is very easy for scum to follow group think, harder to branch out on their own
So....claiming anything?
We're claiming if we're town. And you didn't.
Vote: e
Oh, ok. I am town.
dotdotdot
I don't see any conflict with those two posts.
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I didn't imply there was a conflict.
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I do feel like some people tend to over value group opinion over what they think. In my opinion it is very easy for scum to follow group think, harder to branch out on their own
That is definitely true.
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Also hi. Sorry I broke the game and all. It was going to happen at some point anyway.
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My claiming plan was good! Then I was suddenly scum. Then there suddenly was a posting restriction! Then the game ended. Now I'm town again, but claiming isn't as good anymore. Such a rollercoaster of emotions.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
gkrieg never used double exclamation points.
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I do feel like some people tend to over value group opinion over what they think. In my opinion it is very easy for scum to follow group think, harder to branch out on their own
i think this is developing early town reads 101.
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I am just wondering how much I should just go out and play exactly how I want to even though I know it will cause certain people to scum read me.
(i.e. claim stuff whenever I feel like it regardless of "town's" wishes)
do that first thing
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also hi guys i'm town
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Also hi. Sorry I broke the game and all. It was going to happen at some point anyway.
i feel that's always a public service.
i'm happy to be town again.
and, like, totally, NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.
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i was glad to roll town again. who needs more stress?
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My claiming plan was good! Then I was suddenly scum. Then there suddenly was a posting restriction! Then the game ended. Now I'm town again, but claiming isn't as good anymore. Such a rollercoaster of emotions.
What about the claiming town/not town plan?
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vote: e
Also, I am just wondering how much I should just go out and play exactly how I want to even though I know it will cause certain people to scum read me.
(i.e. claim stuff whenever I feel like it regardless of "town's" wishes)
do that first thing
This.
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vote: Eevee
scum me refused to lynch eevee. Clearly town me must only wagon eevee.
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oh i think that would be really hard for you two
By the way Robz didn't mention it (though I asked), but I won last time with NOT PENNY'S BOAT
Ah who could forget, you all remember you never would have escaped the island if it wasn't for lalights warning "NOT PENNY'S BOAT". But wait a minute were all still here...must have been a dream, or was it.
Dreams are as real as anything, and so are nightmares, beware the shadow of doubt
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My claiming plan was good! Then I was suddenly scum. Then there suddenly was a posting restriction! Then the game ended. Now I'm town again, but claiming isn't as good anymore. Such a rollercoaster of emotions.
What about the claiming town/not town plan?
Not a fan.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
gkrieg never used double exclamation points.
Good thing it is a triple exclamation point!!
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and, like, totally, NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.
accidental additional ON?
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
gkrieg never used double exclamation points.
Good thing it is a triple exclamation point!!
Vote: gkrieg
Scummy jokes are scummy
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
gkrieg never used double exclamation points.
Good thing it is a triple exclamation point!!
Vote: gkrieg
Scummy jokes are scummy
How is that joke scummy??
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NOT PENNY'S BOAT!
Hey everyone! Got to be honest, I was super excited to play a game as Skum on here.... but whatever there is so much content in this game I probably would of just effed it up anyways :P
Swan=Town.
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scummy jokes are not scummy
i am against claiming
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vote: Eevee
scum me refused to lynch eevee. Clearly town me must only wagon eevee.
that does not seem like sound logic.
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seems i can't even fakeclaim town right, maybe that'll make you trust me.
spider senses indicate swan = town.
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I'm also town this time!!!
Fake overexcitement, obviously scum.
gkrieg never used double exclamation points.
Good thing it is a triple exclamation point!!
Vote: gkrieg
Scummy jokes are scummy
How is that joke scummy??
The subtle two exclamation points. Playing into the joke to buddy the original poster.
I don't know. Seems like a pretty strong D1 case to me
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Oh, right. NOT PENNY'S BOAT
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That is not a scummy joke in my opinion.
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That is not a scummy joke in my opinion.
See? It worked.
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Checkmate!
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I have thoughts about claims, but I really don't know exactly how it might work out.
I think everyone draft position 10 and above (10, 11, 12, etc...) should claim claim their bid. Thought: scum are going to have unique bids, town is more likely to accidentally bid something that creates a duplicate.
So say, randomly, 5 people bid 4 (like, you know, what happened before the reset)...it is likely that only one person in that group is scum.
We don't learn much, but we do learn something.
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NOT PENNY'S BOAT
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I'm guessing everyone that opposed the claiming plan originally is still going to oppose it. At any rate, let's not just start claiming stuff.
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Scum may not have unique bids. Note that we discussed this possibility in the scum QT.
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I'm guessing everyone that opposed the claiming plan originally is still going to oppose it. At any rate, let's not just start claiming stuff.
But my plan is different than just straight up claiming. I mean, sure, it divides us in to "more likely to have PR" and "less likely to have PR" groups, but not in a significant way.
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Scum may not have unique bids. Note that we discussed this possibility in the scum QT.
I didn't read that qt.
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Scum may not have unique bids. Note that we discussed this possibility in the scum QT.
I think it is much more likely for scum to bid uniquely than intentionally double up on a number.
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I'm guessing everyone that opposed the claiming plan originally is still going to oppose it. At any rate, let's not just start claiming stuff.
But my plan is different than just straight up claiming. I mean, sure, it divides us in to "more likely to have PR" and "less likely to have PR" groups, but not in a significant way.
I'm not going to follow a D1 plan this time. I do think you're Townish though.
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and, like, totally, NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.
accidental additional ON?
Eevee did that already in the last game, so I'm assuming he's simply getting it wrong.
Scum may not have unique bids. Note that we discussed this possibility in the scum QT.
I didn't read that qt.
Really ? You should. It's interesting (TM).
I dont love draft claiming this time around, but I am in favour of a Poisoner (if one exists) claiming.
NOT PENNY'S BOAT
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and, like, totally, NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.
accidental additional ON?
Eevee did that already in the last game, so I'm assuming he's simply getting it wrong.
Scum may not have unique bids. Note that we discussed this possibility in the scum QT.
I didn't read that qt.
Really ? You should. It's interesting (TM).
I dont love draft claiming this time around, but I am in favour of a Poisoner (if one exists) claiming.
NOT PENNY'S BOAT
Correct, sir. English is hard that way.
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The towns are maybe e and witherweaver.
Last game it was bad not to trust Gkrieg and e and so this game I will arbitrarily trust them for now.
The rest of you I don't trust. And saying oh boo or oh joy I rolled town this time is scummy/pointless.
NOT PENNY'S BOAT.
Missed you guys 8)
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
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oh i think that would be really hard for you two
By the way Robz didn't mention it (though I asked), but I won last time with NOT PENNY'S BOAT
Ah who could forget, you all remember you never would have escaped the island if it wasn't for lalights warning "NOT PENNY'S BOAT". But wait a minute were all still here...must have been a dream, or was it.
Dreams are as real as anything, and so are nightmares, beware the shadow of doubt
Look, I'm cool!
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
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Anyway I will start scumreading e at some point heh. Not now though
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IDPTG's repeating jokey voting me D1 in every game starts feeling like gkrieg's voring for WW whoch in the end turned out to be scum!gkrieg habit
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IDPTG's repeating jokey voting me D1 in every game starts feeling like gkrieg's voring for WW whoch in the end turned out to be scum!gkrieg habit
He didn't do it in the initial running of this game, interestingly enough.
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
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He did
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=719112;topic=17533.125;last_msg=720173
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Why should they? Explain
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Fun fact: I was so embarrassed to show my face around here again that I tried to sign up for the first run under a pseudonym 'black smoke.' But Robz said such a thing was not allowed.
That doesn't make me town, but subbing in was a strugglee. I am embarrassingly bad at this game.
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Also nice joining wagon when there's half of people who just empty posted is all
vote: Teproc
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Fun fact: I was so embarrassed to show my face around here again that I tried to sign up for the first run under a pseudonym 'black smoke.' But Robz said such a thing was not allowed.
That doesn't make me town, but subbing in was a strugglee. I am embarrassingly bad at this game.
Man, that's silly. Look at me, show the game where I had any correct reads? I play this game knowing I am bad at it because I think it's fun for people to have me around as it is always cool tohave you, J Reggie or others who think they're so bad they shouldn't play at all. Nah. You should.
Sorry for empty posting preemptively :P
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Why should they? Explain
So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either
a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.
The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.
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IDPTG's repeating jokey voting me D1 in every game starts feeling like gkrieg's voring for WW whoch in the end turned out to be scum!gkrieg habit
I think I actually did that at the start of every game for a very long time. So it was actually just a !gkrieg thing. I've stopped for the most part now, because I don't feel like it anymore. I still find it hard to open a game though as either alignment.
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Also nice joining wagon when there's half of people who just empty posted is all
vote: Teproc
The post in question was not even RVS, and there was stuff to discuss at that point already (namely the Poisoner thing and e's claiming low draft positions thing).
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Why should they? Explain
So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either
a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.
The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.
Erm, well, yes, they will fakeclaim VT and go with it. I think the only reason why poisoner will claim now if we all come to that consensus is if they're town. That will narrow scum chooices to kill and out the PR
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this
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My good friend Olivia will be giving a lecture titled "Geological Perspectives on the Island" in Classroom 4 tonight. Did you know people sometimes think we're married? The missus doesn't like that, let me tell you.
Vote Count 1.1
LaLight (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc
2.71828 (2): WitherWeaver, Galzria
Eevee (1): O
gkrieg (1): 2.71828
Teproc (1): LaLight
Not Voting (10): gkrieg, Archetype, DatSwan, Eevee, Qvist, iguanaiguana, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, Jimmmmm, faust
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this
I suppose the most practical way is to require everyone to claim whether or not they are a Poisoner. As should be relatively obvious, I am not a Poisoner.
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Hi All!
I'm not a poisoner! Nor am I Penny's boat :-)
Vote: gkrieg for last game.
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this
I suppose the most practical way is to require everyone to claim whether or not they are a Poisoner. As should be relatively obvious, I am not a Poisoner.
I got first draft and took poisoner to block it from scum. I can claim my number if people want. Not sure if that would have some kinda bad effect.
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No one needs to claim not poisoner now.
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The towns are maybe e and witherweaver.
Last game it was bad not to trust Gkrieg and e and so this game I will arbitrarily trust them for now.
The rest of you I don't trust. And saying oh boo or oh joy I rolled town this time is scummy/pointless.
NOT PENNY'S BOAT.
Missed you guys 8)
This doesn't read genuine to me.
Vote: ii
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Looks like LaLight agrees. I got that feeling from both of iguana's posts.
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Hmm.. interesting.
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Although slight FoS on LL for saying sorry about it.
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
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Oh. Well ok then. Don't know that you needed to claim draft order but, well, it's done. Definitely don't think you should claim your number right now. So, no poisoning on N1 (I'm assuming you agree with this since you claimed), and we can reevaluate that in later days.
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Iguana, did you read any of the QTs from the initial start of this game? Did you read the game thread?
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this
I suppose the most practical way is to require everyone to claim whether or not they are a Poisoner. As should be relatively obvious, I am not a Poisoner.
I got first draft and took poisoner to block it from scum. I can claim my number if people want. Not sure if that would have some kinda bad effect.
Wait, this is an actual Poisoner claim? Unvote
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Iguana, did you read any of the QTs from the initial start of this game? Did you read the game thread?
I read the game thread and I saw how many people bid for it last time.
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Vote: LaLight
2/2 on scummy votes.
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Vote: LaLight
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Vote: LaLight !
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I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
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Faster, faster, scums, maybe you'll get a derphammer and less analyze material for town!
Actually i am glad that this wagon is happening. Quite informative
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Vote: LaLight
2/2 on scummy votes.
What do you mean?
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Jimmmmm is unusually active
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Of the last three votes I think Jimmmmm's is the scummy one, WW's is NAI and O's is townie one
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Vote: LaLight
2/2 on scummy votes.
What do you mean?
i didn't like either of your votes (teproc, ii) so I voted for you. And apparently I'm universally beloved and super popular so people just assumed it was the fashionable thing to do.
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Jimmmmm is unusually active
I know right!
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Although slight FoS on LL for saying sorry about it.
Of course I am sorry because saying that the guy is insincere if he is actually sincere is rude in my world
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Vote: LaLight
2/2 on scummy votes.
What do you mean?
i didn't like either of your votes (teproc, ii) so I voted for you. And apparently I'm universally beloved and super popular so people just assumed it was the fashionable thing to do.
I did not vote for ii, hey
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NAI
?
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Of the last three votes I think Jimmmmm's is the scummy one, WW's is NAI and O's is townie one
am i being buddied though. Now I have to keep voting for you so people don't think I'm vulnerable to being buddied up.
The situations you're putting me through...
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Scummy on LaLight for now...
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NAI
?
Not Alignment Indicative
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Also this doesn't seem like scum O from last game. Slight tone change.
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Although slight FoS on LL for saying sorry about it.
Of course I am sorry because saying that the guy is insincere if he is actually sincere is rude in my world
I disagree that it's rude in a game in which the whole point is to determine who is being sincere.
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Also this doesn't seem like scum O from last game. Slight tone change.
yea even though I died last of us I felt I didn't relearn my scum meta very well and felt super scummy throughout the whole game
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Although slight FoS on LL for saying sorry about it.
Of course I am sorry because saying that the guy is insincere if he is actually sincere is rude in my world
I disagree that it's rude in a game in which the whole point is to determine who is being sincere.
this is exactly the kind of tangentially related to mafia but not at all alignment indicative conversation that i love to flood mafia threads with
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I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:
1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.
Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?
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I am going to find the scum this time and it is not going to backfire and it is going to be okay and I shall not be made a fool 8)
Sorry, but this feels insincere, forced is the word I think
Although slight FoS on LL for saying sorry about it.
Of course I am sorry because saying that the guy is insincere if he is actually sincere is rude in my world
I disagree that it's rude in a game in which the whole point is to determine who is being sincere.
Yes, but I always feel a little sorry for scumreading someone or telling someone is insincere because in the end he can be town and I offended them while they were saying something with the good intentions.
Anyway, I don't think this conversation will help me anyone determine alignment of either of us as O pointed out
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Anyway, I don't think this conversation will help me anyone determine alignment of either of us as O pointed out
We're agreed on that point at least.
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Well, I was going to agree with the Poisoner claiming, but it seems I'm late to the party. :(
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Well, I was going to agree with the Poisoner claiming, but it seems I'm late to the party. :(
Why is it necessary that you be part of initiating the claim? A sadface is a strange reaction to the thing you wanted having already happened.
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
Thanks buddy!
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
Thanks buddy!
and thus O secures the pseudo IC slot by buddying
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Cause I like being a part of things.
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This feels like M100 all over again. What's this NOT PENNY'S BOAT thing that's going on?
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Cause I like being a part of things.
Because it makes you look Towny?
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This feels like M100 all over again. What's this NOT PENNY'S BOAT thing that's going on?
Charlie's secondary objective. If many people say it it allows him to say it if he's in the game without giving away that it's him.
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This feels like M100 all over again. What's this NOT PENNY'S BOAT thing that's going on?
Charlie's secondary objective. If many people say it it allows him to say it if he's in the game without giving away that it's him.
I think it's more that if no one but Charlie says it, we know who's a VT.
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Don't tell anyone, but I've been building a cabin for me and the missus. Sometimes you just have to get away, you know?
Vote Count 1.2
LaLight (5): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc, O, Jimmmmm, WitherWeaver
2.71828 (1): Galzria
gkrieg (2): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone
Teproc (1): LaLight
Not Voting (10): gkrieg, Archetype, DatSwan, Eevee, Qvist, iguanaiguana, RoadRunner7671, faust
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
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Cause I like being a part of things.
Because it makes you look Towny?
Not my job to look townie
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Cause I like being a part of things.
Because it makes you look Towny?
Not my job to look townie
What is your job? Deciding who claims?
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I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:
1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.
Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?
Well, last run I was scum and Poisoner. I knew I was going to have to either claim it or lie at some point (claims always happen eventually), and I had basically settled on claiming the role. And I was fully planning to say that I chose it to prevent scum from getting it (and maybe use it; I would have claimed to not decide whether or not to use my power in the early game). So basically Iguana's claim is exactly what my mindset was as scum!Poisoner last time.
The suspicious part of his claim was that he provided his reasoning up front without anyone asking him.
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
Not certain I agree; he's posting quite a bit which is far out of his town meta~
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Cause I like being a part of things.
Because it makes you look Towny?
Not my job to look townie
What is your job? Deciding who claims?
Finding scum, of course. Being a part of things helps me do that.
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Jimmmmmm definitely feels different
-
I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:
1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.
Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?
Well, last run I was scum and Poisoner. I knew I was going to have to either claim it or lie at some point (claims always happen eventually), and I had basically settled on claiming the role. And I was fully planning to say that I chose it to prevent scum from getting it (and maybe use it; I would have claimed to not decide whether or not to use my power in the early game). So basically Iguana's claim is exactly what my mindset was as scum!Poisoner last time.
The suspicious part of his claim was that he provided his reasoning up front without anyone asking him.
I mean the reason I knew I needed to pick it this time is because I saw how you got it last time.
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Jimmmmmm definitely feels different
I DO feel different!
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For the record, when I checked the thread this morning, the game only had about 50 posts. This is really rare for me; normally I wake up to pages and pages of activity from when I was asleep, and then if I don't have time to catch up straight away it snowballs from there. It was very nice to be up to date more or less from the start.
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Jimmmmmm definitely feels different
Good different or bad different?
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
Not certain I agree; he's posting quite a bit which is far out of his town meta~
Nah, jimmmmm can be town for now
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Also, iguana has to go one-up my claiming thought with an actual claim.
Totally changed the course of the conversation
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Jimmmmmm definitely feels different
Good different or bad different?
Yes!
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Also, if we are going to call iguana scum for claiming we should probably call teproc scum for teeing him up
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Also, if we are going to call iguana scum for claiming we should probably call teproc scum for teeing him up
But I don't really want to do that. They can both be town along with jimmmm
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My claiming plan was good! Then I was suddenly scum. Then there suddenly was a posting restriction! Then the game ended. Now I'm town again, but claiming isn't as good anymore. Such a rollercoaster of emotions.
What about the claiming town/not town plan?
See emphasis.
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The subtle two exclamation points. Playing into the joke to buddy the original poster.
I don't know. Seems like a pretty strong D1 case to me
I am sold. Vote: gkrieg
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Why should they? Explain
So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either
a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.
The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.
I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.
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the following shall be considered to be a softclaim:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.
Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this
I suppose the most practical way is to require everyone to claim whether or not they are a Poisoner. As should be relatively obvious, I am not a Poisoner.
I got first draft and took poisoner to block it from scum. I can claim my number if people want. Not sure if that would have some kinda bad effect.
Oh well that is interesting.
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I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:
1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.
Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?
Hm. Well it makes sense to block that role as town, definitely one of the strongest. I don't think mafia would ever take Ninja over Poisoner; the Smoke Monster might, but then this is not the best slot for them. So 2 is unlikely. 3 is well reasonable. iguana did agree to this rather quickly, that looks more like a townie thing. 4 is dangerous and super unlikely. Unless scum got the Barracks and found both things there. But then why not claim that? 5 should not be considered.
So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.
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Jimmmmmms towning it up right now
That was my reaction as well. Since when do we agree on stuff?
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Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time
Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you
Vote: LaLight
Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time
vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?
Why should they? Explain
So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either
a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.
The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.
I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.
Why include that claim?
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I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.
Why include that claim?
[/quote]
For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.
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I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
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I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.
Why include that claim?
For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.
Grumble... this is what it should actually look like.
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I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.
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I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.
I still stand by my opinion!
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So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.
How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?
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So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.
How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?
Well yes, but they are inadvertently claiming "not Poisoner". Which means they need to fakeclaim when the time comes, which potentially catches them in a lie.
I do think telling the truth is the more likely scenario right now.
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So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.
How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?
This.
I mean I see the argument from both sides. But if we do the claim out thing they have 2 options: Truth or Lie.
1) If the Poisoner is Skum it forces them to freeze if they claim it.
2) If the Poisoner is Town, they (assumptions here) were not going to use it anyways and while it sucks to be in this spot, you really only help the team by giving up the info.
3) If the Poisoner is Skum and claims "not Poisoner", then they can continue to poison for the time being. The downside, as mentioned previously, being that they may create a slip that will later be revealed in the game.
4) If the Poisoner is Town and they do not claim it, they either have a reason that escapes me or they are being unhelpful (IMO).
If I were Skum and rolled Poisoner in this situation, I feel like the play would be to go with #3 as it grants more for the Skum team. Assuming that player is not RVSed or something on day 1 they get the ability to target night 1, and then again N2 before we even re-open the discussion about it being a thing. I think that weighed against the chances of maybe down the road there might be a claim eventually that possibly leads to them being caught makes the Skum play to be to stay silent. I mean what is the down side? The other 16 players tell the truth and then we are back at square one?
Again, just my opinion, but when we take that idea and combine it with the fact that there is like no reason ever for one of us to screw over the rest of town by lying about it... I am leaning towards truth on Iguana's claim.
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Scummy on LaLight for now...
Not enough to vote for him though ?
vote: gkrieg
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iguana is town: yes it makes sense for a scum!Poisoner to claim, but he did it really, really fast. I mean it is renouncing a role that you spent your #1 slot on (I guess he could be lying about that if he's scum, but again that was quick thinking then), at least for the first few days. Don't think scum makes that call lightly, without seeing how most people feel about it: I was expecting people to come in and oppose the idea at some point.
WW is townie for being paranoid though, especially given him just having been scum and going for Poisoner.
Re: 2-Shot Redirector, I don't know about that. It's a much less clear case than Poisoner to me, because there's no public proof that the role was used or not used. I don't think I'm in favour of that one.
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What was that Lalight train about? Seems very scummy. There was like no evidence yet on Lalight being scummy and it is even day 1 and there is already a train starting. I think I will keep an eye on Jimmmmm and Witherweaver.
I am not sure what the Poisoner claim is going to achieve. I was reading DatSwan's reasoning and it kinda makes sense though. I have to keep thinking about it for a bit.
Did anyone notice that many of us are named after famous philosophers? That can't be coincidence, that must be fate.
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So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.
How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?
For the towncred, and because they may sense that they are going to have to claim anyway.
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
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I mean, I was in this exact position last game, except people hadn't asked for Poisoner to claim. I was still thinking about my claim and dropping hints for later reference (being in favor of massclaim, stating that other people seemed to be thinking of PR bidding differently than me (implying that my goal was to prevent scum from getting a power)).
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Well I wouldn't see this as automatic. It's not like anyone is suggesting just keep the Poisoner around because they're the Poisoner, but iguana is townie with the claim.
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I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.
People don't give the role credit, d so they didn't go for it. So, you proved his point
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....
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I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.
People don't give the role credit, d so they didn't go for it. So, you proved his point
I suppose so. Still, if most townies won't go for it, it would make sense to confirm it's not in the game early on.
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....
If iguana is scum, then there is no guarantee that he is actually the Poisoner. It could be a teammate. Though that would require very quick thinking there on parts of both scum!iguana and his partner.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....
If iguana is scum, then there is no guarantee that he is actually the Poisoner. It could be a teammate. Though that would require very quick thinking there on parts of both scum!iguana and his partner.
Hence my point about teproc setting up the claim. I doubt iguana claims without teproc suggesting it.
That being said.... iguana is town. Call it gut. But that claim was a town!iguana claim
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Which doesn't say anything about teproc's alignment. Personally I think asking for specific claims is scummy.
(My request for all bid position 10,11,12,etc to claim doesn't count as specific)
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I agree that this was town!iguana claim
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I don't agree this makes teproc more likely to be scum. He looked at the setup we had the first time and came up with a plan
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On the other hand scum!Teproc would've known Inventor is taken because the scum team tried to take it... but it would be quite bold
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I think vote: gkrieg is where I want to be
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I also have a feeling that like 60% of people never posted
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Oh well, Arch is here, ash is not. That's news
-
vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Thanks for clarifying. Phone posts aren't always understandable.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
Classic defense there. I'm saying that you are doing an awful lot of role fishing, and I also think you are just outright wrong about the 2-shot redirector being better for scum than it is for town. If used right, you can actually get scum to kill themselves!!!!
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That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
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That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
Classic defense there. I'm saying that you are doing an awful lot of role fishing, and I also think you are just outright wrong about the 2-shot redirector being better for scum than it is for town. If used right, you can actually get scum to kill themselves!!!!
Exclamation mark escalation...
Me being wrong does not mean I am scum. Yes if used right, you can get scum to kill themselves. If used wrong, you can create a false guilty. It is just not very likely to work out the way you want. And there are only two shots. It's a role that super benefits from information, and since scum have more of that, it is naturally a lot better for scum.
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vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
Classic defense there. I'm saying that you are doing an awful lot of role fishing, and I also think you are just outright wrong about the 2-shot redirector being better for scum than it is for town. If used right, you can actually get scum to kill themselves!!!!
Exclamation mark escalation...
Me being wrong does not mean I am scum. Yes if used right, you can get scum to kill themselves. If used wrong, you can create a false guilty. It is just not very likely to work out the way you want. And there are only two shots. It's a role that super benefits from information, and since scum have more of that, it is naturally a lot better for scum.
creates a false guilty.... if redirector dies that night and can't claim?
Redirector is amazing endgame after people have claimed.
Pretty conditional.
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That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.
But you are trying to get the redirector to claim (or show that there isn't any redirector), so you are doing it as town or scum...
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This seems to be going in circles on purpose.
vote: gkrieg13
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vote count please!
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Never mind, thought I had more votes. I think I have 6 on me, and it is 9 to lynch.
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Never mind, thought I had more votes. I think I have 6 on me, and it is 9 to lynch.
Speaking of 9 to lynch, we will need all 9 to lynch. No such thing as plurality lynch here
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Sorry, I was off "hanging with Smokey" if you know what I mean, dude.
Vote Count 1.3
LaLight (3): O, Jimmmmm, Witherweaver
2.71828 (1): Galzria
gkrieg (6): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, faust, Teproc, LaLight, DatSwan
faust (1): gkrieg
Not Voting (6): Archetype, Eevee, Qvist, iguanaiguana, RoadRunner7671, IDontPlayThisGame
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Gkrieg is playing relatively different to our recent comafia game and I have 0 desire to lynch him right now.
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
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Casting suspicion on me without real vote, voting for faust without real reason, no scumhunting
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
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Casting suspicion on me without real vote, voting for faust without real reason, no scumhunting
I definitely have a reason for voting faust. He is rolefishing with bad reasoning.
Have other people been scumhunting up to this point?
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
Sounds solid.
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
at !east e!!!! is honest about it!!
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
at !east e!!!! is honest about it!!
No, that was just e. e!!!! is a much larger number.
I have no idea what's going on with this whole Redirector thing so I don't think anyone's scummy for it. I haven't decided if I think iguana is town for the claim.
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For the people stating that as a power, Poisoner is bad for town, also against vig's?
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If you're in support of vig's, then I don't understand the talk about the Poisoner opting not to use his power tonight.
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((For the record, I'm against vig'ing until late game - and only if needed or supported by other claims -- but I've found I'm largely in the minority about that opinion))
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Hi. This game has really exploded. Saw the iguana claim but that's all. Rereading now.
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Dayvig > normal vig > poisoner for town by a wide margin.
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Dayvig > normal vig > poisoner for town by a wide margin.
I disagree. I think they all have relatively the same utility.
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I think all y'all are role fishing and I don't particularly like it.
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Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
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If you're in support of vig's, then I don't understand the talk about the Poisoner opting not to use his power tonight.
Well there are certain advantages for vig over Poisoner. Vig gives the info sooner. Having two informative flips by D2 is better than by D3. Poisoner shooting N1 is effectively a vig shooting N2, except they cannot take into account stuff that happened D2. Like they might shoot someone N1, and then come to regret it. Overall it's weaker. That said, I would probably shoot N1 as a Poisoner.
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Upon some much needed re reading I think I was wrongly blaming Gkrieg as skum for "not skum hunting". I still don't really like his case but tbh dude is contributing more than most.
unvote for now.
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What was that Lalight train about? Seems very scummy. There was like no evidence yet on Lalight being scummy and it is even day 1 and there is already a train starting. I think I will keep an eye on Jimmmmm and Witherweaver.
I am not sure what the Poisoner claim is going to achieve. I was reading DatSwan's reasoning and it kinda makes sense though. I have to keep thinking about it for a bit.
Did anyone notice that many of us are named after famous philosophers? That can't be coincidence, that must be fate.
D1 is all about making mountains out of molehills. Taking small things and making cases out of them. We don't have much to go on, so even the littlest thing is significant: doing something vaguely scummy is enough to make you the scummiest player around.
More importantly: votes are how the game is played. It's how we create meaningful interactions, because suspicion doesn't matter, only votes have an actual consequence during the day. The main mission of day 1 is to create interactions that we can reread later with the knowledge of some flips helping interpret them. For that, people need to vote.
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Which doesn't say anything about teproc's alignment. Personally I think asking for specific claims is scummy.
(My request for all bid position 10,11,12,etc to claim doesn't count as specific)
Why is asking for a specific claim scummy ?
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This seems to be going in circles on purpose.
vote: gkrieg13
Don't know that I agree with the reasoning (I think town is just as likely if not more than scum to get into arguments that go nowhere), but I think it's a townie one.
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For the people stating that as a power, Poisoner is bad for town, also against vig's?
Yes, but also Poisoner is much worse for town than Vigs. The situation where vigs are useful are, like, counterclaims where you lynch one and if you get it wrong you get to vig the other, that kind of stuff. Poisoner is much less efficient at that.
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Upon some much needed re reading I think I was wrongly blaming Gkrieg as skum for "not skum hunting". I still don't really like his case but tbh dude is contributing more than most.
unvote for now.
More town points for DatSwan.
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That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.
But you are trying to get the redirector to claim (or show that there isn't any redirector), so you are doing it as town or scum...
I need parsing help now! Are you saying you think he's scummy for suggesting a role should be claimed, or saying that you observe he's done similar as town? We all know her was scum on the dry run of this game, so I'm missing where the knowing-he's-town part comes from.
Urgh.. phone posting, so apologies if I've missed any of the awful autocorrupts!
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Also, I'm kind of VLA again for the next 48 hours on a business trip to Germany. Sadly can't so in to investigate faust in person this time round :-( Last time I was about to fly to Germany I had gkrieg with me on the coach to Heathrow (which is where I am now) and LaLight was waiting for us in Berlin!
*waves to all you guys in the interwebs* Miss you all!
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Also, I'm kind of VLA again for the next 48 hours on a business trip to Germany. Sadly can't so in to investigate faust in person this time round :-( Last time I was about to fly to Germany I had gkrieg with me on the coach to Heathrow (which is where I am now) and LaLight was waiting for us in Berlin!
*waves to all you guys in the interwebs* Miss you all!
Now I feel bad for trying to get you lynched the last time.
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I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.
Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.
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I'll bite.
Vote: IDontPlayThisGame
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
I would expect suspicion for claiming poisoner and first draft. I thought getting it as town was super lucky. Isn't it more likely that scum would get it with four unique tries? This many people calling me town for it seems to indicate that the scum bid for poisoner and didn't get it and therefore already knew town had it and would claim it.
Of the people calling me town, Lalight does so without reasoning and just sheeping several others who had already said it.
Vote: Lalight
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
I would expect suspicion for claiming poisoner and first draft. I thought getting it as town was super lucky. Isn't it more likely that scum would get it with four unique tries? This many people calling me town for it seems to indicate that the scum bid for poisoner and didn't get it and therefore already knew town had it and would claim it.
Of the people calling me town, Lalight does so without reasoning and just sheeping several others who had already said it.
Vote: Lalight
Look. There is 16 people i have no idea of alignment of. Your claim reminded me vividly of gkrieg's claim in Firefly, he claimed his flavor name immediately without much consideration and with some extra info iirc, that's why i thought your claim is townie. I am now sorting people in my head onto 3 groups: townieish, scummiish, null. I don't need a lot of towntell to think you're townieish. gkrieg, for one, didn't provide towntell at all and provided some scumtell so he's scummyish. I just didn't feel the need to repeat e's words why you are town.
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Tl;dr I don't think you're our D1 lynch, so I townread you.
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Tl;dr I don't think you're our D1 lynch, so I townread you.
Usually the causal cain is the other way around...
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Tl;dr I don't think you're our D1 lynch, so I townread you.
Usually the causal cain is the other way around...
What is causal cain?
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A causal chain that killed its brother.
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Ah. Well, what should it be? I mean, I don't want to lynch a claimed Inventor, so i just will look for scum elsewhere
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And you would not be lynching a claimed Inventor.
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Tl;dr I don't think you're our D1 lynch, so I townread you.
Usually the causal cain is the other way around...
I think this is more a language thing. Meaning Iguana was put into the "not lynching" bucket.
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Inventor is not in this setup??
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Inventor is not in this setup??
Sorry, Poisoner
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Tl;dr I don't think you're our D1 lynch, so I townread you.
Usually the causal cain is the other way around...
I think this is more a language thing. Meaning Iguana was put into the "not lynching" bucket.
Yah
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
I would expect suspicion for claiming poisoner and first draft. I thought getting it as town was super lucky. Isn't it more likely that scum would get it with four unique tries? This many people calling me town for it seems to indicate that the scum bid for poisoner and didn't get it and therefore already knew town had it and would claim it.
Of the people calling me town, Lalight does so without reasoning and just sheeping several others who had already said it.
Vote: Lalight
Look. There is 16 people i have no idea of alignment of. Your claim reminded me vividly of gkrieg's claim in Firefly, he claimed his flavor name immediately without much consideration and with some extra info iirc, that's why i thought your claim is townie. I am now sorting people in my head onto 3 groups: townieish, scummiish, null. I don't need a lot of towntell to think you're townieish. gkrieg, for one, didn't provide towntell at all and provided some scumtell so he's scummyish. I just didn't feel the need to repeat e's words why you are town.
Well you have not provided a town tell at all and have provided some scum tells. So that is another good reason to vote you.
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
I would expect suspicion for claiming poisoner and first draft. I thought getting it as town was super lucky. Isn't it more likely that scum would get it with four unique tries? This many people calling me town for it seems to indicate that the scum bid for poisoner and didn't get it and therefore already knew town had it and would claim it.
Of the people calling me town, Lalight does so without reasoning and just sheeping several others who had already said it.
Vote: Lalight
Look. There is 16 people i have no idea of alignment of. Your claim reminded me vividly of gkrieg's claim in Firefly, he claimed his flavor name immediately without much consideration and with some extra info iirc, that's why i thought your claim is townie. I am now sorting people in my head onto 3 groups: townieish, scummiish, null. I don't need a lot of towntell to think you're townieish. gkrieg, for one, didn't provide towntell at all and provided some scumtell so he's scummyish. I just didn't feel the need to repeat e's words why you are town.
Well you have not provided a town tell at all and have provided some scum tells. So that is another good reason to vote you.
If you think so, apparently, yes
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
Did scum actually lurk in M100?
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
Did scum actually lurk in M100?
Look through it. I lurked, iguana mostly lurked, ash and Galz were active, but i think it's becaise they are ash and Galz. I'm talking about myself here, look
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
Except the people who haven't posted much yet either never post a ton (EG Roadrunner), or they're new (EG Qvist) or they have some good reason for lurking so far (EG Archetype).
So at least right now I don't see anyone doing scummy lurking.
You can't just say "In x type setup, scum does y." Every setup is different.
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
Except the people who haven't posted much yet either never post a ton (EG Roadrunner), or they're new (EG Qvist) or they have some good reason for lurking so far (EG Archetype).
So at least right now I don't see anyone doing scummy lurking.
You can't just say "In x type setup, scum does y." Every setup is different.
While I agree with this, this setup is pretty similar to the last big Robz game, both with people, and with the number of people and the actual setup.
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What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
Except the people who haven't posted much yet either never post a ton (EG Roadrunner), or they're new (EG Qvist) or they have some good reason for lurking so far (EG Archetype).
So at least right now I don't see anyone doing scummy lurking.
You can't just say "In x type setup, scum does y." Every setup is different.
Well, i don't say this. I say it's easier for scum to lurk and get away with this in massive setup
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So we just need the hider to hide behind the hammer hero every night then, correct?
I guess what I mean is that even if we run the exact same setup again, people will not play the same game and it will be different.
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So we just need the hider to hide behind the hammer hero every night then, correct?
I guess what I mean is that even if we run the exact same setup again, people will not play the same game and it will be different.
Obviously. But I am talking about another thing. Mostly protecting myself
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I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.
Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.
Or maybe I don't like it when my RVS vote is on a wagon that's forming.
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I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.
Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.
Or maybe I don't like it when my RVS vote is on a wagon that's forming.
That was almost the case with me, but then there was that comment form gkrieg that made me feel like it wasn't the worst place for my vote to be.
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Anybody got any dynamite?
Vote Count 1.4
LaLight (3): O, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana
2.71828 (1): Galzria
gkrieg (4): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, Teproc, LaLight
faust (1): gkrieg
IDontPlayThisGame (2): faust, Witherweaver
Not Voting (6): Archetype, Eevee, Qvist, RoadRunner7671, IDontPlayThisGame, DatSwan
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
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6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
Which of these wagons is good?
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6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
Which of these wagons is good?
The gkrieg one.
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
To clarify, I don't think your claim makes you town, I think how you claimed makes you town.
Don't fight me on this one. I want to read you as town, let me.
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6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
Which of these wagons is good?
The gkrieg one.
Really? Your case is that I used exclamation points in multiples instead of in singles, where there is no proof that I don’t do that as town. I’m surprised that that is even a case honestly.
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
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6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
Which of these wagons is good?
The gkrieg one.
Really? Your case is that I used exclamation points in multiples instead of in singles, where there is no proof that I don’t do that as town. I’m surprised that that is even a case honestly.
I am waiting for a better case to present itself. Plus if I stay on you forever and I get lucky and you are scum that is major town points
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I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.
Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.
Or maybe I don't like it when my RVS vote is on a wagon that's forming.
??? Then why even RVS vote? Wagons are like the only useful thing to come out of that.
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i'm just here so people don't poke me for lurking. I still dislike the Gkrieg lynch and even though the LaLight case is super weak there's next to no credible semblance's of a case here.
I just can't jump onto a case founded on exclamation marks. If anyone wants to do an in depth ampersand analysis though I'd be down.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!
Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
Yeah, voting willy-nilly on Day 1 is actually somewhat Towny I think.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
I'm not afraid to jump on it, I just have too much dignity to.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
True, but that doesn't mean that only town jump on baseless cases.
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!
Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.
Ok then.
Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.
There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!
Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.
Ok then.
Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.
There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)
I'm not sure I get why this is a good idea yet. Why are we having the people in the last part of the draft claim their position?
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!
Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.
Ok then.
Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.
There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)
I'm not sure I get why this is a good idea yet. Why are we having the people in the last part of the draft claim their position?
Because I do not believe scum intentionally bid on the same numbers. Therefore, if we lynch scum in a duplicate or triplicate number bid we can PoE town from the rest. Obviously not just ICing them, but it really helps their case
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Also not automatically narrowing our lynch pool to the three people who bid 4 (as an example)
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It just gives town information without costing us really anything. It is extremely likely that at least one role was not bid on. Which means even the player in draft position 17 had the chance to be a PR (however unlikely). We are merely learning who bid on the same numbers to help PoE later on.
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Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.
To clarify, I don't think your claim makes you town, I think how you claimed makes you town.
Don't fight me on this one. I want to read you as town, let me.
Would it still be mafia with you if I didn't fight you on everything and always turn out to be wrong?
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
That's a pretty good summary of why the Gkrieg wagon is acceptable. LaLight is still where it's at though.
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
Why do they need to? I'm not saying mafia need the draft claim here. Just can push the idea fast and early.
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
A reasonable (but incorrect) theory.
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To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
To clarify, "what are scum actively doing at this moment" is much more directly in the minds of scum players than town ones
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.
What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.
What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me
it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.
What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me
it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.
Hm. You are right. I should have kept reading past your first case.
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But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.
Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.
Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!
Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.
Ok then.
Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.
There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)
lol tell that to XXR from 105 :P
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?
actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.
Vote: ii
Could you clarify that?
To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy, aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.
The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.
What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me
it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.
Hm. You are right. I should have kept reading past your first case.
As you were posting your theory I was thinking about how I liked e's plan and trying to think of potential drawbacks before agreeing to it. Then your post came up so I right away considered it as a drawback. But then it seemed odd because I was already thinking about how it was unusual that e actually had a potentially good plan and no one else was picking it up. My mind didn't go straight to the conclusion, it was just the only thing I thought about that was worth posting.
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Anyway I think e's plan is potentially good.
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As you were posting your theory I was thinking about how I liked e's plan and trying to think of potential drawbacks before agreeing to it. Then your post came up so I right away considered it as a drawback. But then it seemed odd because I was already thinking about how it was unusual that e actually had a potentially good plan and no one else was picking it up. My mind didn't go straight to the conclusion, it was just the only thing I thought about that was worth posting.
sufficient for me unvote
I actually do agree with the claiming plan. Outside of completely switching up bids between scum (which doesn't help with the duplicate-numbers-to-scum-are-town hypothesis" it's surprisingly hard to fuzz a number bid. But it should also be orders
But it should actually be the opposite way around. If people claim what #s they bid on first, and then what draft position after, then they have less room to fuzz what number they bid on.
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IE: "The person who got slot 15 bid on 8. I bid on 4 and got 14, but I could claim that the 8 group was one larger".
This does have risks if for scum but with enough information about other bids/groups that risk could be eliminating.
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eliminated. I promise i can grammar if i chose to do so.
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I have issue with any claiming concept that does not help skum. Are we not worried that by doing this we will be making it too easy for them to hunt out PRs for the NK? - Same applies for SK/Mother I suppose.
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I have issue with any claiming concept that does not help skum. Are we not worried that by doing this we will be making it too easy for them to hunt out PRs for the NK? - Same applies for SK/Mother I suppose.
I am not worried about this
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The 8 (!!) people not voting need to vote. This game is stagnating, and we're now going for another round of theory talk re: e's plan (not saying it's necessarily bad, but it shouldn't prevent us from scumhunting).
Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers, so vote: RR.
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The 8 (!!) people not voting need to vote. This game is stagnating, and we're now going for another round of theory talk re: e's plan (not saying it's necessarily bad, but it shouldn't prevent us from scumhunting).
Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers, so vote: RR.
Why do you want to lynch within the lurkers? And who do you consider to be lurkers?
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The 8 (!!) people not voting need to vote. This game is stagnating, and we're now going for another round of theory talk re: e's plan (not saying it's necessarily bad, but it shouldn't prevent us from scumhunting).
Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers, so vote: RR.
Why do you want to lynch within the lurkers? And who do you consider to be lurkers?
Because I think the lurkers are more likely to be scum. They have less incentive to get the game going, which it really hasn't yet.
Arch (apparently there's a V/LA there and also Arch always lurks but still), Eevee, RR, IDPTG. Jimmmm kinda qualifies but he's voting at least.
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Specifically RR lurks harder as scum I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't expect town!RR to have many more posts than he does here, but I would expect him to have voted and made more of an impact.
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I would expect him to have voted.
I'm not sure you know RR then.
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Last time I checked ER had a really hard time committing to any vote especially D1.
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ER = RR
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vote: RR bang!
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Alright, let's take a look at RR's last few games
M107, town: First vote at #67, his second post of the game. Votes again in his second burst of posts, and then again in his third.
M105, scum: Two votes in the whole day 1, the first RVS, the second literal minutes before deadline.
M103: Plenty of voting... I'd say town!RR's vote/post ratio is among the highest on f.ds here.
Don't feel like doing more work, I stand by my assertion.
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Last time I checked ER had a really hard time committing to any vote especially D1.
TL;DR: check again.
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Hm.
Vote: RR
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Don't really want to lynch RR
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vote: RR
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what info do we get from lynching RR
at least with other people we can pretend to have cases about punctuation.
Here it's just "well we lynch him pretty much every game so might swell get it over with"
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This is pretty swell.
I don't like the gkrieg or LL wagons I don't want to lynch gkreig or lalight. I like O's analysis on iguana but I don't want to lynch iguana D1.
I don't like how people build the RR wagon so quickly. You guys don't understand that Roadrunner7671 is actually a bunch of different people so consistent play isn't to be expected.
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I'd say town!RR's vote/post ratio is among the highest on f.ds here.
I think some games I vote a ton, some games I never vote. I think it has something to do with my role but not my alignment.
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Last time I checked ER had a really hard time committing to any vote especially D1.
Oh yeah. Even if I do vote, I tend to unvote at really inconvenient times to prevent people from being lynched. Looking at you, Eevee.
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Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers
And I'm still in my VLA thingy.
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Sorry for artificially inflating my post count, but my thoughts are pretty jumbled right now and I'm not going to commit to one big response post.
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I would've thought more people would be here at 8:30 EST but what do I know?
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Vote Count 1.5
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (3): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
IDontPlayThisGame (2): faust, Witherweaver
RoadRunner7671 (4): Teproc, Eevee, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
Not Voting (6): Archetype, Qvist, RoadRunner7671, IDontPlayThisGame, DatSwan, O
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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At least Robz is keeping me company.
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You gonna vote?
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vote: idtpg
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
Whyyyy
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
Whyyyy
Cause if we were to lynch them, we wouldn't gain anything besides either a dead townie or dead scummy. No interactions n stuff
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what info do we get from lynching RR
at least with other people we can pretend to have cases about punctuation.
Here it's just "well we lynch him pretty much every game so might swell get it over with"
Vote: O
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what info do we get from lynching RR
at least with other people we can pretend to have cases about punctuation.
Here it's just "well we lynch him pretty much every game so might swell get it over with"
Vote: O
o snap !!
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Indeed
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idk it's gonna take a pretty large wagon for me to really feel the heat, feel pretty obvtown this game
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ok, hi.
I'm reading somewhat scummy on Iguana for the poisoner claim. Yeah, it was a quick claim to make but I'm not seeing why you would take it as first draft pick as town. Blocking scum from it or the Ninja is great, but thats not the kind of game id be playing if I could pick any role I wanted. The Jailkeeper or Gunsmith would have been my first choice. Don't really want to lynch iguana, but he definitely should not Poison tonight.
Town-ish on Jimmmm for being active, town-ish on 2.7 for some fairly insightful posts. Same with Teproc, but he's usually like that.
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Town-ish on Jimmmm for being active
Haven't you heard? That's a scum tell.
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I really like e's plan about the bottom spots claiming. I would find it very hard to believe scum would purposefully claim the same number - and believe it moreso now that the idea has garnered much traction. I would suggest that the threshold be raised a bit to, like, 13-17 or something to hopefully at least catch at least one group of duplicate numbers.
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Town-ish on Jimmmm for being active
Haven't you heard? That's a scum tell.
Oh shoot, my bad.
Vote: Jimmmmm
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Unvote
I'm kidding - I'm not really sure enough about people to be voting rn
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The 8 (!!) people not voting need to vote. This game is stagnating, and we're now going for another round of theory talk re: e's plan (not saying it's necessarily bad, but it shouldn't prevent us from scumhunting).
Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers, so vote: RR.
This reminds me a lot of scum!Teproc in M106. I also heard Teproc can quickhammer at night, so I'm interested in seeing some of that.
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Not a huge fan of this RR wagon situation going on. I believe that skum!RR would come up with a post and a vote in the situation presented. Initially I thought skum!Teproc for pushing the vote so hard, but I just don't see it... too helpful so far in driving the discussion towards useful material.
Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
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Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.
True, but that doesn't mean that only town jump on baseless cases.
Well that is true of literally every town tell.
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Also not automatically narrowing our lynch pool to the three people who bid 4 (as an example)
The thing is that we already have an artificially narrowed lynch pool. And having the lynch pool be the three people who bid 4 isn't all bad as scum is likely to have bid there and 1 out of three is still better chances than we have from random lynching. Plus the SM could also be in there.
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I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.
That seems paranoid and tentatively townie.
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Jimmmm kinda qualifies but he's voting at least.
What? Jimmmmm has ben reasonably active this game. Well over his usual posting rate.
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vote: RR bang!
And here the lurker comes in to vote for another lurker!
Vote: Eevee
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hey Faust lets start a wagon
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vote: Eevee i've come full circle
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I would've thought more people would be here at 8:30 EST but what do I know?
You know nothing, John Locke.
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I can't speak about RR's past history, but that he came and posted so many posts after a train got rolling on him, tells me that he was indeed lurking purposefully and is scum.
Vote: RR
Also, again, I'm against bid claiming. Not sure what kind of info we should get from that. We might have additional info for the long game, but also have a high chance to lose town PR's early. Latter seems worse to me.
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Town-ish on Jimmmm for being active
Haven't you heard? That's a scum tell.
So is you lurking apparently! Man I sure don't want to be in your shoes.
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Not a huge fan of this RR wagon situation going on. I believe that skum!RR would come up with a post and a vote in the situation presented. Initially I thought skum!Teproc for pushing the vote so hard, but I just don't see it... too helpful so far in driving the discussion towards useful material.
That's what scum!Teproc does too. It's not an alignment tell.
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.
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I can't speak about RR's past history, but that he came and posted so many posts after a train got rolling on him, tells me that he was indeed lurking purposefully and is scum.
Vote: RR
Also, again, I'm against bid claiming. Not sure what kind of info we should get from that. We might have additional info for the long game, but also have a high chance to lose town PR's early. Latter seems worse to me.
the kind of info is pretty clear: the proponents assume that scum wouldn't have bid on the same number twice, so if scum with with #4 and three other people have claimed #4 those other three are looking pretty solid
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.
wait am i supposed to be pretending I think Eevees scum here
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I can't speak about RR's past history, but that he came and posted so many posts after a train got rolling on him, tells me that he was indeed lurking purposefully and is scum.
Vote: RR
Also, again, I'm against bid claiming. Not sure what kind of info we should get from that. We might have additional info for the long game, but also have a high chance to lose town PR's early. Latter seems worse to me.
the kind of info is pretty clear: the proponents assume that scum wouldn't have bid on the same number twice, so if scum with with #4 and three other people have claimed #4 those other three are looking pretty solid
But of course unless we lynch the scum among them, we won't ever know. There could be no scum there, but who knows. And it does not include Smoke Monster/Mother considerations. It's just not really worth it. I don't see how it would make any practical difference in how we play this day.
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.
wait am i supposed to be pretending I think Eevees scum here
You don't have to because you really think Eevee's scum!
Right?
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Or 2 others could have bid on the same number purposefully or wait. They could just claim the same number even. As long as we don't have order numbers.
Also claiming bids before orders seems just wrong as the others can just lie.
If we claim, we have to do it the other way around as this at least assures that people don't lie. Unless I am missing something.
But not sure I like any claim at the moment.
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.
wait am i supposed to be pretending I think Eevees scum here
You don't have to because you really think Eevee's scum!
Right?
eh he's as scum to me as anyone else here. More so than some people
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People as they are dying should consider claiming position and bid though.
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Not a huge fan of this RR wagon situation going on. I believe that skum!RR would come up with a post and a vote in the situation presented. Initially I thought skum!Teproc for pushing the vote so hard, but I just don't see it... too helpful so far in driving the discussion towards useful material.
That's what scum!Teproc does too. It's not an alignment tell.
Clarification request - is this to say "skum!Teproc would be driving discussion towards useful material"?
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People as they are dying should consider claiming position and bid though.
skummy
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Not a huge fan of this RR wagon situation going on. I believe that skum!RR would come up with a post and a vote in the situation presented. Initially I thought skum!Teproc for pushing the vote so hard, but I just don't see it... too helpful so far in driving the discussion towards useful material.
That's what scum!Teproc does too. It's not an alignment tell.
Clarification request - is this to say "skum!Teproc would be driving discussion towards useful material"?
Yes.
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super skummy actually - vote: gkrieg
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What makes that so scummy?
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it's completely correct and not scummy at all...
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Agreed, it seems super reasonable.
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? Am I missing something here?
Person looking like they get the rope
Person claims role (obv claims town based role)
The rest of us re-evaluated based on new knowledge
Do we not just give Skum a free claim a decent amount of the time here?
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wow DAMA I guess, I totally mis read...
I thought the action was to claim... like claim role.
Yes - this makes sense sorry.
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oh yeah
unvote
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I mean, role claiming before lynches also happens... not a requirement or anything but it's not some taboo. You just shouldn't take claims as always true.
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? Am I missing something here?
Person looking like they get the rope
Person claims role (obv claims town based role)
The rest of us re-evaluated based on new knowledge
Do we not just give Skum a free claim a decent amount of the time here?
Well you may have misread, but we still want lynchees to absolutely claim their role. Imagine we lynch a Gunsmith or Watcher with some results and they don't get to claim it. That's super bad. And the "free claim" is not really good for scum. I mean yes we reevaluate with new knowledge, but if we actually do have more knowledge than before, then that is a good thing. And of course we should always consider that the person may be lying. Still, if we end up lynching a townie, it is essential that they reveal as much info as possible before dying.
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I can't speak about RR's past history, but that he came and posted so many posts after a train got rolling on him, tells me that he was indeed lurking purposefully and is scum.
I don't buy this argument. As someone who finds myself in the "need to catch up" camp a bunch of times, this can certainly come from Town or scum. In this case I think RR is more likely Town.
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I won't lie (because i'm town), I'm kind of lurking purposefully, meaning I'm reading along but it's just too many people for me to find anything reasonable to say. My plan is to shoot semi-random votes and hope I get lucky and hit scum.
I feel our day 1 chances might honestly be worse with careful analysis and crafted arguments. Scum can, and will just latch onto the best sounding ones and town will be lynched.
For day 1, with a town this size, maybe chaos is our best chance?
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Eevee seems pretty town.
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Eevee seems pretty town.
Why? I didn't see anything towny in that post.
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I don't want to lynch Eevee.
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Dr. Chang would like everyone to know that he's feeling much better, and is looking forward to playing table tennis in the rec room once again. (We haven't had the heart to tell him he lost an arm yet.)
Vote Count 1.6
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (3): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Eevee
RoadRunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Qvist
O (1): Witherweaver
Eevee (2): faust, O
Not Voting (4): RoadRunner7671, IDontPlayThisGame, Archetype, DatSwan
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Vote: DatSwan
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vote: eevee
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vote: eevee
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vote: RR
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Vote Count 1.7
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (3): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Eevee
RoadRunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, Qvist, DatSwan
O (1): Witherweaver
Eevee (4): faust, O, gkrieg13, Galzria
DatSwan (1): RoadRunner7671
Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Archetype
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Are those policy votes or do you think I'm scum?
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Vote: Witherweaver
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Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
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It's increasingly scummier the longer it's delayed.
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What is exaclty the case of Eevee being town or Eevee being scum? All either vote or say he's town without any explanation.
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What is exaclty the case of Eevee being town or Eevee being scum? All either vote or say he's town without any explanation.
I think he just sounds the way town sounds. I'm not very good at reading Eevee, though, so I'm not all that confident in it.
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RR's response was townie, and generally I think the wave of unexplained votes is townie too. Qvist's puzzlement at it also. Eevee's concern about good cases I also like, it's a bit of an unorthodox point, and one that makes sense for town!Eevee in particular I think.
Back to vote: gkrieg I think.
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Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
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I agree with Teproc that RR and Eevee's responses to heat felt townie. Neutral on Gkriegs
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Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
That guy you're talking about sounds very townie.
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Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
That guy you're talking about sounds very townie.
I'm pretty happy OMGUSing here. OMGUSing a bad vote when there's no other cases aint the least of my worries.
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Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
That guy you're talking about sounds very townie.
I like the confidence.
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I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
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I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
Really ? You're going to leave a rvs vote before your VLA ?
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I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
Really ? You're going to leave a rvs vote before your VLA ?
Not an RVS vote but being super busy before my in laws get here makes it harder to go through and pull out all the quotes.
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You should look.
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You should look.
if someone finds any please inform me :P
I feel like i have been relatively straight forward so far...
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You should look.
if someone finds any please inform me :P
I feel like i have been relatively straight forward so far...
Do you think you were not straightforward in the initial run?
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I guess it is a perspective thing. Last game I knew I was skum so in my head I was not playing straightforward.
But I see your point. If there is something you find that you would like justified or explained please just let me know. Best way to create a dialog to reference for later skum hunting is to post in the actual thread among one and other.
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
Hey, picking a fellow VLA person to park a vote on might not be your best plan.
In other news, I'm back in the UK now! Let's see how far I get with a re-read before being too sleepy..
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So.... what's going on?
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Or 2 others could have bid on the same number purposefully or wait. They could just claim the same number even. As long as we don't have order numbers.
Also claiming bids before orders seems just wrong as the others can just lie.
If we claim, we have to do it the other way around as this at least assures that people don't lie. Unless I am missing something.
But not sure I like any claim at the moment.
Yes, please lie lots, scums. We will not at all use your claimed bids to catch you out in those lies. Like, no chance! :-)
(You're missing that the fact we have a check-and-balance system with the order and the secret numbers we each bid to end up in that order means that we can easily catch scum out in a lie. It worked beautifully in M100!)
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What did I miss SpaceAnemone? Is that not exactly what I said?
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I'd be willing to do e's claim plan.
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Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.
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Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.
RoadRunner's vote for me with no reason is skummy and I don't like it
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Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.
RoadRunner's vote for me with no reason is skummy and I don't like it
So you react by OMGUSing me? Seems...sub optimal.
And why would you assume there's no reason behind my vote?
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Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.
RoadRunner's vote for me with no reason is skummy and I don't like it
So you react by OMGUSing me? Seems...sub optimal.
And why would you assume there's no reason behind my vote?
Yes. I thought there was no reason because.... you didn't give one. In my limited previous history with you, you contributed very little through the game and blank voted quite a few times. In that game you were skum. It seems similar to that game, so currently my vote sits on you.
Hope that helps clarify whatever in the world an OMGUS is
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It's where you voted for me because I voted for you, and you seem to be trying to justify it. Call it confirmation bias, but I got my eye on you DatSwan!
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Vote: DatSwan
Because you gave so very much reason yourself. Obviously he should've deduced your great and phenomenal reasoning from such a detailed post.
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And why would you assume there's no reason behind my vote?
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Vote: DatSwan
Because you gave so very much reason yourself. Obviously he should've deduced your great and phenomenal reasoning from such a detailed post.
just because someone doesn't give reasons doesn't mean there's no reasons. Why would I vote for someone if it was based on nothing?
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Thanks for that (no sarcasm, didn't know).
And I don't think it is fair to say I am "justifying". You said something I did seemed skummy, so I responded to it. Also, I did vote for you because you voted for me....kinda....It just happened to be that the reason I thought to vote for you was the blank vote you cast. It just so happened the blank vote was for me. You could of done it for anyone at this point in the game, my action would not of changed.
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Vote: DatSwan
Because you gave so very much reason yourself. Obviously he should've deduced your great and phenomenal reasoning from such a detailed post.
just because someone doesn't give reasons doesn't mean there's no reasons. Why would I vote for someone if it was based on nothing?
Alright, let's take a look at RR's last few games
M107, town: First vote at #67, his second post of the game. Votes again in his second burst of posts, and then again in his third.
M105, scum: Two votes in the whole day 1, the first RVS, the second literal minutes before deadline.
M103: Plenty of voting... I'd say town!RR's vote/post ratio is among the highest on f.ds here.
Don't feel like doing more work, I stand by my assertion.
vote: RR
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
I voted for you because of this. Mafia knows who the other mafia are, so it's hard to vote and make reads n all that jazz.
PPE-Ugh I bet Galz is chewing me out
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Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
I voted for you because of this. Mafia knows who the other mafia are, so it's hard to vote and make reads n all that jazz.
PPE-Ugh I bet Galz is chewing me out
Well I appreciate you making it easier on me :)
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
Oh my gosh stoppppppppp I'm not scum
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Like I get that all yall are masterminds and stuff but if I start playing with a town meta than I need to take a break or change my mindset because there's no way I even want to be town read.
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Being obviously town isn't that fun. I was an IC once, once was enough. VT might even be my favorite role (not true), or at least a PR that isn't confirmable. If people could always read you and be like "oh, x y and z are town tells for RR and a b and c are scum tells" that's no fun. I guess the point of the game is to convince people you're town but I don't want to do that based on past games and meta and all those things. I'd much rather enter each game fresh and play it differently based on the setup, the people and what everyone's saying.
So in short, whether or not you town read me doesn't even really matter. I care if you town read me, but you can make your own opinions based on whatever you want. They might be less accurate than they should be though.
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
I like this post.
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I think it's pretty obvious that I'm having a major communication crisis, so we'll just see who calls it flailing.
We'll also see who points out that I do weird stuff similar to that whenever I'm town.
I don't think flailing as town should be a town tell for town RR.
Now we'll see who points out that I just 'denied' towncred and that a scum RR tell.
I don't think that should be a scum tell for RR.
Then we come back to this voting issue about how scum RR never votes. Clearly this isn't true but it'll always haunt me and lead to people mistrusting me ta LyLo so I'll accidentally lose the game because of how I've played as scum. Wouldn't that be what scum RR wants? Of course, I won't make it to LyLo because I'll do something else that gets chalked up as scummy and get lynched at some point or another. What a cycle.
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Okay, give me one more shot to try to explain what I’m thinking. So people scum read based on what has happened in past games. I understand this, it should work, it does work. The problem, though, is that I work against it in a way. I play each game differently, but people still try to analyze patterns in my play. Of course there are patterns in how I play, it’s impossible to do something completely different every time after you’ve done it for dozens of times. But the problem is that I try to change up, so I guess I don’t think past game analysis works very well with me?
Then there’s another part where I don’t want to care how people read me and I sort of just want to do my own thing, but I can’t win that way. Playing like that will, at some point, end with my lynch. It’s pretty much inevitable. Even if I just become a default lynch because of it. I cannot survive until the end of the game if I don’t care how people read me.
But then another issue is that RR wagons always spring up in like 6 hours, so by the time I can defend myself there’s already a wagon on me, so we’ll always remember that time 4 townies were voting for RR on D1, and this is basically a death sentence closer to LyLo.
But you can’t defend yourself before a wagon springs up, that’s being too worried and is seen as scummy. So what can I do? I can’t get read accurately but people still try, and I have to worry about what people think about me, but I can’t worry about it before I get voted for, so by the time I defend myself I’ve gotten a target for a lynch put on me for the rest of the game. So I can’t do anything.
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
I like this post.
Vote: WitherWeaver
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RR is flailing.
Oh, and he is town
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RR is flailing.
Oh, and he is town
I don't like either one of these statements.
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I think Eevee may be town here. His admission is a weird one if scum.
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RR is flailing.
Oh, and he is town
I don't like either one of these statements.
Maybe you like this better:
Vote: RR
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
I like this post.
Vote: WitherWeaver
Agreed.
Vote: WitherWeaver
RR is town.
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Teproc, e: What makes you think RR is town?
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I don't think flailing as town should be a town tell for town RR.
I'm pretty sure doing anything as town is a town tell.
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
I like this post.
Vote: WitherWeaver
Agreed.
Vote: WitherWeaver
RR is town.
Well so am I.
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To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
I like this post.
Vote: WitherWeaver
I don't like this post.
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RR is flailing.
Oh, and he is town
Want to show examples?
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RR is flailing.
Oh, and he is town
Want to show examples?
I don't think he makes those two posts he did (a page ago) as scum.
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
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I guess Iguana would also go on the "don't want to lynch". I find him fairly suspicious, though.
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I'll Vote: Roadrunner
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Vote: RR
I'll reread him later today, but that didn't look like towny flailing to me.
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I vote someone and no one follows. I say I don't want to lynch someone, and people vote him. I'm like the antiFaust.
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RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee
That would be L-2. unvote for now. Got time. Wanna think.
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
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I'm okay with this I guess. Something about losing the battle but winning the war?
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
I don't attribute much weight to that. Could easily happen if they are all town.
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
I feel weirdly that his list is me and the 3 people I've voted for this game. But I may simply be paranoid and seeing things.
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So. RR.
I feel like I am fairly good at reading him. I forget which game it was (like 10-15 games ago, more? I don't know) but we had this little mini conversation between us about how well I read RR. That was another game he was town and ultimately got lynched (pretty sure).
Anyway, this feels a lot like that. RR is being town!RR here. Call it gut, call it whatever. But he is town here (just wait for me to flip on you at EoD like I did to CJ last game).
But yeah. I can go back and look at specific posts if you want, but every post I call a town tell someone else can interpret it as scum. D1 without any results comes down to gut most of the time. And RR is town
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
I feel weirdly that his list is me and the 3 people I've voted for this game. But I may simply be paranoid and seeing things.
I mean, that is an observation. I don't get what your conclusion is though. WW is the anti-Galzria?
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Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
I will keep my vote at RR because his reaction was way too defensive when he saw the train going and only outed his lurking, that is my reasoning at least.
And as others pointed out, RR should probably claim now, IMHO.
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Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
I will keep my vote at RR because his reaction was way too defensive when he saw the train going and only outed his lurking, that is my reasoning at least.
And as others pointed out, RR should probably claim now, IMHO.
I disagree strongly with anyone being forced into a claim they don't want to make
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Why?
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
I feel weirdly that his list is me and the 3 people I've voted for this game. But I may simply be paranoid and seeing things.
I mean, that is an observation. I don't get what your conclusion is though. WW is the anti-Galzria?
Not everything needs or has a conclusion. It's simply weird to me.
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Why?
I trust town to best utilize their own role without is telling them how to do it
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Why?
I trust town to best utilize their own role without is telling them how to do it
And when we disagree with a certain application of a role..... well, we can learn something from that
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Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
I will keep my vote at RR because his reaction was way too defensive when he saw the train going and only outed his lurking, that is my reasoning at least.
And as others pointed out, RR should probably claim now, IMHO.
It depends on whether you prescribe to the hidden variable theory of Mafia or not.
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Don't want to lynch: Eevee, Galzria, RR, e
Will lynch: Everyone else
How do you feel that two of your four are voting for 1 of your four?
I feel weirdly that his list is me and the 3 people I've voted for this game. But I may simply be paranoid and seeing things.
I mean, that is an observation. I don't get what your conclusion is though. WW is the anti-Galzria?
Not everything needs or has a conclusion. It's simply weird to me.
The conclusion is obviously that you're wrong~
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So. RR.
I feel like I am fairly good at reading him. I forget which game it was (like 10-15 games ago, more? I don't know) but we had this little mini conversation between us about how well I read RR. That was another game he was town and ultimately got lynched (pretty sure).
Anyway, this feels a lot like that. RR is being town!RR here. Call it gut, call it whatever. But he is town here (just wait for me to flip on you at EoD like I did to CJ last game).
But yeah. I can go back and look at specific posts if you want, but every post I call a town tell someone else can interpret it as scum. D1 without any results comes down to gut most of the time. And RR is town
Hm. Do you have evidence showing how good you are at reading him?
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Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
I will keep my vote at RR because his reaction was way too defensive when he saw the train going and only outed his lurking, that is my reasoning at least.
And as others pointed out, RR should probably claim now, IMHO.
It depends on whether you prescribe to the hidden variable theory of Mafia or not.
Not sure what that means.
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I actually think e's not too bad at reading me.
But I'm not gonna claim because despite my wagon and stuff, I'd be shocked if I got lynched.
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Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
it's mostly a pro-personal meta anti-town meta thing the young whippersnappers (and Galzria apparently) are doing these days. If you never provide reasons for voting the only analysis of whether you're town/scum is who you actually voted for.
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Reread RR.
I'm on the fence, still. Those long posts read to me more like scum paranoia than anything else, but the other posts felt townier to me.
Unvote I guess.
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Vote: O
O seems to be following the path of least resistance here. It's not much, but I think scumO would play something like this.
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Reminder: Dharma open mic night starts in an hour. Feel free to sit in any empty chair. Well, except that empty chair.
Vote Count 1.8
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (3): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (4): Qvist, DatSwan, faust, Archetype
O (2): Witherweaver, Eevee
Eevee (1): gkrieg13
DatSwan (2): RoadRunner7671, iguaniguana
Witherweaver (2): O, Teproc
Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Vote: O
O seems to be following the path of least resistance here. It's not much, but I think scumO would play something like this.
It's not the path of least resistance, it's that the current wagons are god awful.
I am 100% serious about lynching WW.
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Vote: O
O seems to be following the path of least resistance here. It's not much, but I think scumO would play something like this.
It's not the path of least resistance, it's that the current wagons are god awful.
I am 100% serious about lynching WW.
I still like an Eevee lynch. I'm less inclined towards RR now. I want to go back and reread 105 though just to see how he reacted prior to our lynching him... but I feel more townie than scummy on his response here atm.
I would happily support a vote: WW lynch though. You're reading townie to me and I don't have any hesitancy sheeping you.
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Vote: O
O seems to be following the path of least resistance here. It's not much, but I think scumO would play something like this.
It's not the path of least resistance, it's that the current wagons are god awful.
I am 100% serious about lynching WW.
I still like an Eevee lynch. I'm less inclined towards RR now. I want to go back and reread 105 though just to see how he reacted prior to our lynching him... but I feel more townie than scummy on his response here atm.
I would happily support a vote: WW lynch though. You're reading townie to me and I don't have any hesitancy sheeping you.
I'm not convinced after I vote Eevee --> Eevee responds --> I back off that scum!eevee would poke me again
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vote: WW
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Possibly. But his posts are so few (admission of intent is... weird. From both scum and town), and really, really lack in content. Plus - if you believe in these things - there was a Freudian slip where he admitted to being scum.
seems i can't even fakeclaim town right, maybe that'll make you trust me.
spider senses indicate swan = town.
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Or I'm just misreading that.
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Vote: WW
I think reminding us to suspect the poisoner is scummy, as keeping that suspicion alive is very much in scum's interest if Iguana is town (which is the more likely scenario). WW seems to be playing it pretty safe as well, I'm buying what O is selling here.
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
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Or I'm just misreading that.
It was a joke that I couldn't even get the fake town claim for a secondary win condition down correctly, "haha look I can't lie".
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
And what is it you think that town!WW would look like?
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
And what is it you think that town!WW would look like?
Probably very similar, of course. He might get more out of line in some way, like find himself in a heated argument, or be very joke-y, or have more controversial opinions or reads.
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
And what is it you think that town!WW would look like?
Probably very similar, of course. He might get more out of line in some way, like find himself in a heated argument, or be very joke-y, or have more controversial opinions or reads.
No he wouldn't, you bastard!
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woke up suppppppeeeerrrr late evidently. I do not have any play history with WW and the majority of the case being made against him seems to be based on play style... so no real opinion on all of that.
Leaving my vote on RR for right now. Cannot get over the similarities between this game and last game with skum!RR. Also, the responses to initial Galz comments come off skummy to me. From no explanation to lots of explanation etc etc. IDK, that is a little more speculation and bias... mainly it is the similarities to M105.
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Checking in, busy yesterday and today. Catching up today or tomorrow.
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
And what is it you think that town!WW would look like?
town!WW probably would sheep me on every scumread and use every protective PR on me while using investigative/Killing/roleblocking PRs on my scumread.
But mostly I think you'd have less than a 7:1 question:post ratio. Opinions are good in mafia, even if they're wrong (especially? if they're wrong)
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Eevee is looking townier now. I need to gather my thoughts soon. Sorry about slacking off.
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I don't see how what I'm doing is playing it safe.
I just mean it's a very standard WW day of mafia. Active, but not a leader figure. Some votes, some town reads, some jokes, some serious analysis, nothing that's too far out of line.
Scum is polished, knows to avoid the pitfalls. I think this is what scumWW would look like.
And what is it you think that town!WW would look like?
town!WW probably would sheep me on every scumread and use every protective PR on me while using investigative/Killing/roleblocking PRs on my scumread.
But mostly I think you'd have less than a 7:1 question:post ratio. Opinions are good in mafia, even if they're wrong (especially? if they're wrong)
Way to sneak a question in there.
I think I probably ask more questions as scum than town. It's a relatively easy way of looking like you're actively scum hunting.
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Sorry for being totally AWOL yesterday! My expected free evening failed to materialize and I didn't get home till after midnight. Anyway, I've now got a couple of hours of breathing space :-)
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What did I miss SpaceAnemone? Is that not exactly what I said?
Huh, not sure now! I was super-tired when I posted that, then gave up my re-read in favour of bed. I think I was interpreting your post as suggesting that there's no point claiming our draft order because the scums can lie about their position... which would be great for us, because once the numbers they bid come out, we pin them in a lie, as long as we do it in a way where they can't have full information ahead of time about what number would have generated the order they claimed rather than the order they got.
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Radzinsky wanted me to remind you all that deadline is coming up and construction on the Swan site will continue ahead of schedule no matter what. That guy should really chill.
Vote Count 1.9
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (3): 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, LaLight
RoadRunner7671 (4): Qvist, DatSwan, faust, Archetype
O (1): Witherweaver
DatSwan (2): RoadRunner7671, iguaniguana
Witherweaver (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg13, Eevee
Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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I suppose I should reread witherweaver.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
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Right, I've got my vote-counting stuff set up for this game now :-)
Here's the peak (or peaks) of any wagon so far that's gotten up to at least 4 people.
#105: LaLight (4): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc, O, Jimmmmm
#138: LaLight (4): Teproc, O, Jimmmmm, Witherweaver
#200: gkrieg13 (6): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, faust, Teproc, LaLight, DatSwan
#232: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, Teproc, LaLight
#348: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Qvist
#362: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, DatSwan
#379: Eevee (4): faust, O, gkrieg13, Galzria
#380: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, Qvist, DatSwan
#388: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, Teproc
#440: Roadrunner7671 (6): Qvist, DatSwan, Galzria, faust, Archetype, Eevee
#470: Witherweaver (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg13, Eevee
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Space, did your parse miss iguana on RR, or did I miss a vote change? I had RR at 7 when I unvoted.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
It isn't.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
I have provided opinions, and reads, and am willing to be held to them.
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Anyway, I've now got a couple of hours of breathing space :-)
nice
I am also confused about the WW wagon.
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It's swell aboard. Do come join.
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It's swell aboard. Do come join.
You shouldn't be voting me.
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Space, did your parse miss iguana on RR, or did I miss a vote change? I had RR at 7 when I unvoted.
I have iguana moving to DatSwan at #394, dropping RR from having three votes to have two.
From that two-vote start (Qvist, DatSwan, who'd originally followed iguana), it built to six without other movement off the wagon.
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Space, did your parse miss iguana on RR, or did I miss a vote change? I had RR at 7 when I unvoted.
I have iguana moving to DatSwan at #394, dropping RR from having three votes to have two.
From that two-vote start (Qvist, DatSwan, who'd originally followed iguana), it built to six without other movement off the wagon.
You're correct, it was my mistake. I missed that switch.
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Hm.
Vote: Gkrieg
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Hm.
Vote: Gkrieg
Man I was just liking getting on the defense for WW train and then this. Just looks like you trying to create two secondary wagons for people to switch to.
Can we get a reason for the vote?
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Hm.
Vote: Gkrieg
Man I was just liking getting on the defense for WW train and then this. Just looks like you trying to create two secondary wagons for people to switch to.
Can we get a reason for the vote?
The other secondary wagon being RR? I don't want people to switch to that.
Gkrieg's getting onto my wagon seems the guiltiest. I'm not sure if scum!O would continue to behave this way or not; at any rate I'm not that confident in my vote for him. (I wasn't confident before, for the record; most of the 'pushing' was just for effect.) I also don't remember what my argument was in the first place; I'd have to go back and look. O also doesn't seem likely to get lynched, while Gkrieg is possible.
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Assume I'm town (I am) and look at the votes on me.
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Vote: gkrieg
Woah there's a third option
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Sorry I haven’t been around today. Doing projects around the house. I will get to this tomorrow
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This is not so convincing from you.
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But I mean, feel free to justify.
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
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Wait that's exactly what WW said
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....
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
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But I mean, feel free to justify.
Why should I justify a lack of a case on him? Why don't you try justifying one?
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But I mean, feel free to justify.
Why should I justify a lack of a case on him? Why don't you try justifying one?
You should justify a defense, obviously. And I did.
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There being no case on him does nothing to further the claim that it's a bad lynch.
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
Just imagine for a second that gkreig is mafia and we successfully lynch him because he used too many explanation points.
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I'm against lynching Eevee or RR (or gkrieg if it's the exclamation marks). Any interest in Qvist or Galz?
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There being no case on him does nothing to further the claim that it's a bad lynch.
There being no case on him does nothing to further the idea that it's a good lynch.
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
Just imagine for a second that gkreig is mafia and we successfully lynch him because he used too many explanation points.
Just imagine for a second that Gkrieg is town and we unfortunately mislynch him because he used too many exclamation points.
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There being no case on him does nothing to further the claim that it's a bad lynch.
There being no case on him does nothing to further the idea that it's a good lynch.
That's not how it works.
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I'm against lynching Eevee or RR (or gkrieg if it's the exclamation marks). Any interest in Qvist or Galz?
Yes Qvist, not really Galz.
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The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
Just imagine for a second that gkreig is mafia and we successfully lynch him because he used too many explanation points.
Just imagine for a second that Gkrieg is town and we unfortunately mislynch him because he used too many exclamation points.
That would be funny but in a different way. But I see your point.
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Is Galzria a new player or one of the older ones that hasn't been in recent games?
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one of the older ones that hasn't been in recent games
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Hmm.. I'm not really sure then.
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Is Galzria a new player or one of the older ones that hasn't been in recent games?
The answer is in my sig, and is neither. I was in 100, 102, 105, and RMM45, as well as being one of the oldest members in f.ds mafia history.
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Is Galzria a new player or one of the older ones that hasn't been in recent games?
The answer is in my sig, and is neither. I was in 100, 102, 105, and RMM45, as well as being one of the oldest members in f.ds mafia history.
Right, well, I guess I'm the one who hasn't been in the recent games.
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
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So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
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So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.
in fact FOS on you for ignoring it
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So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.
in fact FOS on you for ignoring it
Ah wow. Well here goes:
Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
You're complaining that WW has not provided a reason after voting him without stating a reason is a bit rich. Other than that I fail to see how that's more substantial than what we've heard against gkrieg, which, by the way, is NOT only exclamation marks and the people suggesting that it is are super scummy.
Vote: O
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So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.
in fact FOS on you for ignoring it
Ah wow. Well here goes:
Vote: Witherweaver
Delayed OMGUS!
And yet still more reason than you provided.
Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate
You're complaining that WW has not provided a reason after voting him without stating a reason is a bit rich. Other than that I fail to see how that's more substantial than what we've heard against gkrieg, which, by the way, is NOT only exclamation marks and the people suggesting that it is are super scummy.
Vote: O
so you still haven't read the case, then.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is
Wow, so you can be helpful!
Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
Vote: DatSwan I think.
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*right=rich
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is
Wow, so you can be helpful!
Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?
???
Lets summarize here:
1) You ask for the case
2) I provide a completely not sarcastic summary of the case (which I did not claim was strong)
3) You ask for the case again, claiming nobody has provided one
4) I point out that I have provided the case, admittedly somewhat aggressively
5) You quote a mostly joking post -- in which I intentionally vote without a reason to mimic his behavior -- as my case. I understand how this can be confusing. You claim it's a bit rich.
6) I point you with a direct quote to the case, which is directly responding to you.
7) You aggressively say "so you can be helpful"
who is actually being more unhelpful here Faust? I might have less manners in my average post but you're entirely in the wrong here.
It's scummy because it's defending WW without stating an opinion based on the reality of the situation (I.E. defending him by arguing against the case). If WW is scum, it's obvious why it's scummy. If WW is town, it's the kind of low-effort white knighting that scum defending town tends to do.
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Sorry. I know I was a bit aggressive there, that's not a nice tone. You are right that I should not have responded that way. I apologize. I know part of it is just mild annoyance about past performance, but I will try harder to not let that bleed into this game.
As far as the WW case goes, I guess I don't see the scumminess there. I agree that questions are easier for scum than reads, but they are also a pro-town thing, and I thought WW's reaction to the Poisoner claim before was on the townie side.
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
Vote: DatSwan I think.
So I know you are openly admitting to the whole "not into the game now" but and all but you should re read to the part where I admit I don't any longer think there is a solid gkrieg case and un vote him.
Also - I said now that I don't think the whole !! Thing is valid and when asked previously it wasn't on my list bc I still thought it was nonsense then.
I don't get it are you like purposefully taking things out of context thinking it's just gonna slide in or something?
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
Vote: DatSwan I think.
So I know you are openly admitting to the whole "not into the game now" but and all but you should re read to the part where I admit I don't any longer think there is a solid gkrieg case and un vote him.
Also - I said now that I don't think the whole !! Thing is valid and when asked previously it wasn't on my list bc I still thought it was nonsense then.
I don't get it are you like purposefully taking things out of context thinking it's just gonna slide in or something?
Okay. This is it:
Upon some much needed re reading I think I was wrongly blaming Gkrieg as skum for "not skum hunting". I still don't really like his case but tbh dude is contributing more than most.
unvote for now.
(Emphasis mine) It seems to me you still think gkrieg is scummy at that point.
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So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
I'm more concerned with
a) Using basically RVS discussion to undermine any votes for Gkrieg that have happened since after the first day or so. I wonder what would he going on if the punctuation joke were not made.
b) The overconcern of lynching Day 1 without a "case".
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That being said, I understand an argument like: Gkrieg was a safe place for scum to put their vote early on as it wouldn't be scrutinized, and leaving it there serves as a cover for doing something in the game while not scum hunting. Therefore scummy wagon, and therefore Gkrieg more likely town.
That argument doesn't seem to be made, though. And, even so, I didn't find the people voting Gkrieg early on to be that scummy.
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Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
Vote: DatSwan I think.
I found the first point scummy. Could move to DatSwan.
I do think he's a little different from before, where he was scum, though.
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Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?
Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.
especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is
Wow, so you can be helpful!
Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?
???
Lets summarize here:
1) You ask for the case
2) I provide a completely not sarcastic summary of the case (which I did not claim was strong)
3) You ask for the case again, claiming nobody has provided one
4) I point out that I have provided the case, admittedly somewhat aggressively
5) You quote a mostly joking post -- in which I intentionally vote without a reason to mimic his behavior -- as my case. I understand how this can be confusing. You claim it's a bit rich.
6) I point you with a direct quote to the case, which is directly responding to you.
7) You aggressively say "so you can be helpful"
who is actually being more unhelpful here Faust? I might have less manners in my average post but you're entirely in the wrong here.
It's scummy because it's defending WW without stating an opinion based on the reality of the situation (I.E. defending him by arguing against the case). If WW is scum, it's obvious why it's scummy. If WW is town, it's the kind of low-effort white knighting that scum defending town tends to do.
I have a slight notion that scum!Fasut is likely to be more confrontational with less provocation. Not very strong though.
Also, your case is bad (and a misrepresentation of how I've played), but at least you are providing that it is not strong.
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No one reacted to Jimmmmm considering Qvist but me (unless I missed).
What do people think of Qvist?
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That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.
But you are trying to get the redirector to claim (or show that there isn't any redirector), so you are doing it as town or scum...
I need parsing help now! Are you saying you think he's scummy for suggesting a role should be claimed, or saying that you observe he's done similar as town? We all know her was scum on the dry run of this game, so I'm missing where the knowing-he's-town part comes from.
Urgh.. phone posting, so apologies if I've missed any of the awful autocorrupts!
I'm reposting my own gkrieg-parsing issue from when I was phone-posting from the coach the other day.
To clarify, my question about gkrieg's choice of language is that he seems to indicate a knowledge that faust is doing something "as town or scum" when he shouldn't be able to know if faust is town this time (and I think he's using the example from this game). Did I just misunderstand something about the argument? I pointed out at #257 that this is why I'm keeping my vote where it is. Meanwhile gkrieg only responded to the punctuation argument (e.g. #264), and now that's the only part of the suspicion people are talking about.
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Gkrieg was just saying that Faust is either town or scum now, though I think the antecedent of "it" changed through the quotes .
I'm not sure I get your point.
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No one reacted to Jimmmmm considering Qvist but me (unless I missed).
What do people think of Qvist?
Ah, I didn't respond when I read it just now because I just agreed with your observation that Galz is looking a bit townie (mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day), and had a totally null opinion of Qvist, so he probably needs a re-read from me.
Actually, I have exactly the same question on Qvist that you had on Galz: is he a returning oldie? He seems to have a lot of posts on f.ds in general, at least, but I don't think I've played with him before.
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(mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day)
What is this about? RR is still one of the major wagons, no?
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(mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day)
What is this about? RR is still one of the major wagons, no?
He's kind of a distant third: he has three votes, whereas gkrieg and WW both have five.
And since you asked with such incredulity, I went and counted the expressions of disinterest or towny-vibes towards RR:
e @ #426.
Teproc @ #430
WW @ #437 (says he doesn't want to lynch RR, anyway)
Eevee @ #461 says some stuff feels townie and he's not voting there any more.
Galz @ #465 says he's less inclined towards an RR lynch now.
Then there's the fact that e also reiterates his "RR is town" stance twice @ #447. Maybe that's inflating the feeling of a move away from RR a little, but it's still a considerable minority willing not to push him right now, hence my assumption that he's gained a D1 pass.
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Gkrieg was just saying that Faust is either town or scum now, though I think the antecedent of "it" changed through the quotes .
I'm not sure I get your point.
Yeah, I agree that the antecedent changing is not helping my understanding. Gkrieg seems to be saying that faust's claiming-theory behaviour (which I'm understanding as the "it") is something he's clearly doing in this game as town or scum. It seems to be an implicit assumption that faust is town this time, given that he was scum in the first run-through.
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Just checking in again, didn't have that much time to read the last hours.
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Actually, I have exactly the same question on Qvist that you had on Galz: is he a returning oldie?
I have played like 2 games long time ago, so I am pretty much a noob.
So I would be okay voting for RR or WW for reasons already lined out, all the other people didn't really stand out to me.
Although Eevee being so lurky is totally different to the game I played back then, so not sure how I should interpret that.
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Now you guys want to vote for DatSwan? ::)
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I'm happy with my WW vote. I'm not really following the gkrieg arguments for either said, it's very confusing.
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Ok, rereading D1 now.
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Love gkrieg rereads, love them.
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I still think iguana is likely town from the poisoner claim, and more importantly, it means that we know scum doesn't have it. Plus, the poison kill has a different flavor, so it will be obvious if he uses the power anyway.
WW has suspicions of iguana's claim
Faster, faster, scums, maybe you'll get a derphammer and less analyze material for town!
Actually i am glad that this wagon is happening. Quite informative
This post is slightly scummy from LaLight. He knows this is what town should feel like, but the feeling seems a little hollow compared to town!LaLight.
He even starts trying to analyze his own wagon. The reaction to the votes just seems too fast IMO.
I agree with myself that O is probably town this game.
I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:
1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.
Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?
This seems townie from Jimmmm. Good analysis.
Well, I was going to agree with the Poisoner claiming, but it seems I'm late to the party. :(
Slightly scummy from Galz, although I'm not sure why I feel that way from this post.
I still very much disagree with faust about the 2-shot redirector, but I don't think it is too scummy from faust anymore.
The poisoner claim is hard because fakeclaims are pretty difficult for scum in this game. faust and I were running into that problem last time, that basically the best thing for us to do was sacrifice faust, because scum being claim #1 makes it incredibly difficult to fakeclaim, because other people have so much information about the other slots.
Datswan seems townie from his iguana analysis
qvist is a little fishy to me. Definitely leaning scum there.
Space is town I think. The amount of analysis to other content stuff seems consistent with town!them.
I can never read WW. He is one of the top people I would cop if I were an alignment cop in every game.
vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
Classic defense there. I'm saying that you are doing an awful lot of role fishing, and I also think you are just outright wrong about the 2-shot redirector being better for scum than it is for town. If used right, you can actually get scum to kill themselves!!!!
This post from me sums up my thoughts on faust at that point.
Casting suspicion on me without real vote, voting for faust without real reason, no scumhunting
See, this is just bad from LaLight. One of these things is actually true, and the scumhunting thing is wayyyy too early in the game to be pulling that out of the excuses to vote hat.
@225 . Don't want to lose this so posting it.
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I agree with a lot of what Teproc says, but it doesn't move him from null yet.
That is just not how I do things.
And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.
Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.
But you are trying to get the redirector to claim (or show that there isn't any redirector), so you are doing it as town or scum...
I need parsing help now! Are you saying you think he's scummy for suggesting a role should be claimed, or saying that you observe he's done similar as town? We all know her was scum on the dry run of this game, so I'm missing where the knowing-he's-town part comes from.
Urgh.. phone posting, so apologies if I've missed any of the awful autocorrupts!
What I'm trying to say here is that faust is saying that he doesn't rolefish as town, which I'm saying can't be true with what he says because he is saying he is town and rolefishing. And so I'm saying that the fact that he is in fact rolefishing (which is the term I'm using so I don't have to repeat "trying to get the redirector to claim or show that there isn't a redirector") means he is doing it as town or scum (because he has to be one or the other). Really not a big deal, though.
Also, I'm kind of VLA again for the next 48 hours on a business trip to Germany. Sadly can't so in to investigate faust in person this time round :-( Last time I was about to fly to Germany I had gkrieg with me on the coach to Heathrow (which is where I am now) and LaLight was waiting for us in Berlin!
*waves to all you guys in the interwebs* Miss you all!
Miss you too!!!
I feel like town!WW moves his vote around a bunch, which is what he is doing here, but I think scum!WW knows this...
Look. There is 16 people i have no idea of alignment of. [most of quote snipped]
Once again, this looks like LaLight trying too hard. I must be really reading LaLight as scum, because now every single one of his posts is scummy to me.
I think IDPTG isn't scummy for jumping off the wagon. It is a very cautious!townie thing to do.
6 people not voting is a lot. I think these wagons are a good place to start but I want to know what the other 6 people think.
Which of these wagons is good?
The gkrieg one.
Really? Your case is that I used exclamation points in multiples instead of in singles, where there is no proof that I don’t do that as town. I’m surprised that that is even a case honestly.
I am waiting for a better case to present itself. Plus if I stay on you forever and I get lucky and you are scum that is major town points
This exchange does not make me feel good about e.
I can agree with e on the claiming stuff. Shows he has thought about it.
I'm kind of skimming that this point, which makes these rereads less useful.
Right now I have the following:
town: O, iguana, Jimmm, Space, Datswan, RR, IDPTG (although I literally had to go to the playerlist to figure out who the 17th person was...)
scum: LaLight
scum-leaning: galz, qvist, Eevee,
town-leaning: faust
null: Teproc, WW, e, Archetype? (don't remember anything from him either)
I won't lie (because i'm town), I'm kind of lurking purposefully, meaning I'm reading along but it's just too many people for me to find anything reasonable to say. My plan is to shoot semi-random votes and hope I get lucky and hit scum.
I feel our day 1 chances might honestly be worse with careful analysis and crafted arguments. Scum can, and will just latch onto the best sounding ones and town will be lynched.
For day 1, with a town this size, maybe chaos is our best chance?
Oh ya, this is why Eevee is scummy.
vote: LaLight
I stopped at #400 for the record.
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Quickly reread LaLight, and I can see what gkrieg is saying. I like my vote on WW still, but I could vote for LL as well if the wagon's shake the right way. Not really interested in gkrieg (the reread looks towny! I like how there are some weaker points/more controversial opinions there as well, seems like town attempting to make analysis without too much care for how it makes themselves look) or RR (as referenced about, simply didn't seem scummy to me on reread).
I'm wondering about Galzria, this has certainly been a slow performance from him this far (though I admit that my expectations are gargantuan), but there's no lamenting about the size of the game or the business of life which would maybe be more expected from scum. I'm going back and forth, but leaning town.
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I feel like I've been slightly less present than normal but not hugely so. Mostly, while I think D1 is one of the most valuable days in a game - it just rarely ever is on D1 itself. I do backward analysis of the game as it goes fairly well... and D1 for me is more about creating interactions and events that can be looked back on later than it is trying to be hugely productive today.
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Sorry i've been absent, it's been a crazy couple of days for me. What's happening ?
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I won't lie (because i'm town), I'm kind of lurking purposefully, meaning I'm reading along but it's just too many people for me to find anything reasonable to say. My plan is to shoot semi-random votes and hope I get lucky and hit scum.
I feel our day 1 chances might honestly be worse with careful analysis and crafted arguments. Scum can, and will just latch onto the best sounding ones and town will be lynched.
For day 1, with a town this size, maybe chaos is our best chance?
Oh ya, this is why Eevee is scummy.
Nah, this is why he's Towny.
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Rereading now.
I don't like that everyone keeps bringin up the exclamaionts points thing about gkrieg. I think e's the only one who took that even halfway seriously (maybe WW too). gkrieg's "LaLight is scummy" comment without voting (he was not voting for anyone else either) is still basically the scummiest thing that's happened this game.
Also, gkrieg is scummy because he's not townie. Plenty of people are townie in this game, so that's enough. But it's even more true of WW.
faust is not going for any of the main wagons AND fighting with O ? Another player looking townie and making me want to lynch the people who are not.
WW getting argumentative is scum!WW I think.
Re: Qvist... I don't know. He feels similar to the first iteration of the game, he was town there right ? So there, slightly townie.
I like the gkrieg reread. Now he's done something townie ! I don't finde the LL case super convinving though. I like my vote on WW. Deadline is sometime tomorrow right ? I'll be around.
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gkrieg was on WW too, so his launching on LL feels organic, because it's inconvenient for him. I mean LL is a possible alternative lynch, since he's gotten suspicion and not many townreads, but it's not the easiest path to getting out of lynch range. That would be WW (similar to LL but with a bunch of votes on him already) or DatSwan (any lynch gets easier when faust is pushing it), so town points for that too.
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That being said, I understand an argument like: Gkrieg was a safe place for scum to put their vote early on as it wouldn't be scrutinized, and leaving it there serves as a cover for doing something in the game while not scum hunting. Therefore scummy wagon, and therefore Gkrieg more likely town.
That argument doesn't seem to be made, though. And, even so, I didn't find the people voting Gkrieg early on to be that scummy.
I agree for once, that there's little alignment indicative on the Gkrieg wagon.
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I could support an IDPTG wagon. Not my top choice, but not the worst either.
The only things of value that he's said are "I don't want my vote on LaLight anymore." And "I don't like having my RVS vote on a wagon" (in reference to the first).
7 posts total though, so interactions are limited.
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I could support an IDPTG wagon. Not my top choice, but not the worst either.
The only things of value that he's said are "I don't want my vote on LaLight anymore." And "I don't like having my RVS vote on a wagon" (in reference to the first).
7 posts total though, so interactions are limited.
That is to say, he's had no opinions whatsoever and his only vote was removed for poor reasoning and stated RVS in nature.
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Eh, sure, why not?
vote: idptg
Lynch order preference:
Eevee -> WW-> IDPTG -> 2.7 -> Most everybody else.
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I started this re-read much earlier this afternoon (i.e. in the morning, forum-time-wise), but it got put to one side while I got stuff done. The post counts were correct at whatever points I re-loaded the whole-thread view for a particular read, so they're not all taken at the same point in time.
LaLight (41 posts): Lots of early-game scum-reads and accusations, which isn't quite his usual friendly self. Weird townreading logic at #236. Feels a bit defensive. Then goes totally VLA for four days. Leaning scummier than I'd remembered.
Galzria (31 posts): Surprisingly little early-game content (like before #400). Spends a lot of time defending gkrieg. Null.
gkrieg (31 posts): I really don't like how the case against him has been characterised as being all about the punctuation. I remain suspicious of him, and would like him to engage with my point, rather than letting WW do the work for him. Also, gkrieg seemed to be half-defending RR when the wagon starts up, but then jumped right on.
2.71828..... (48 posts): Seems townie for his enthusiasm for the claiming stuff. He's been really burned by claiming exercises before as scum.
Archetype (8 posts): So little here! Is there a VLA in effect? I'd accuse him of fluff-posting with the highlighting of my unintentional pun, except that he also put something game-relevant in the same post, so I think it feels like he's trying to participate. Very null.
Teproc (22 posts): Townie for pushing claiming in a way that I think benefits town.
Witherweaver (74 posts!): Huge number of posts, though most of them are tiny. I find his lack of quoting makes it hard to sit some of his comments in their right context, so I could misinterpret things easily, but I don't think I'm seeing anything that scummy. I don't get why he's the big alternative to gkrieg.
IDontPlayThisGame (7 posts): Wow, virtually no content, but currently VLA. I remember town!IDP being considerably more proactive at scum-hunting.
Datswan (25 posts): Newbie to me at least. Not really said as much as the post count ought to indicate. Seems a bit hesitant/flakey on votes, but that might be a newbie thing. Nullish.
Qvist (14 posts): Also a new-to-me person, also someone with very little in the early game. Pretty much the same boat as Datswan.
RoadRunner (35 posts): Admits to artificially inflating his post count :-P Has been VLA. Seems to be flaily town for D1. I always think he's not the most pro-town person around, and then he gets lynched and turns out to have been town after all. So town for now to avoid that mess for the time being.
faust (53 posts): He's active in scum-hunting and making people stay accountable, which is good. I dislike the aggressive bit a lot, but I'm not sure it's indicative of alignment. The fact he's not trying to kill off me or gkrieg (or other logic-y people?) is encouraging at least.
SpaceAnemone -- spaaaaaace :-) Only 16 posts, though, which is fewer than I'd thought, even given VLA-ness.
Iguanaiguana (28 posts): I still find the lack of early accountability worrying for the poisoner thing. That can be solved when we see how things look in D3, though, so he's a pretty poor vote choice for today.
Jimmmmm (27 posts): Active early, then less active once his level of activity was pointed out. Doesn't seem very committed.
O (51 posts): Way more active than I'd realised. O's lack of avatar really doesn't work for my visual memory! I feel like he's behaving in the "play to have fun" style he got tunneled by Awaclus for in M100. I do still think that sort of jokiness benefits scum more than town, but I don't think there's other evidence to think he's scum yet.
Okay, as I say, I started this some hours ago and didn't get around to finishing it. Now gkrieg has posted a reasonably satisfactory explanation of the wording thing I was unhappy with, and I'm swinging round to putting him into the maybe-townie box. In contrast, my re-read didn't leave me with warm fuzzies over LL, so I'm going to follow gkrieg and vote: LL instead.
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Gkrieg was just saying that Faust is either town or scum now, though I think the antecedent of "it" changed through the quotes .
I'm not sure I get your point.
Yeah, I agree that the antecedent changing is not helping my understanding. Gkrieg seems to be saying that faust's claiming-theory behaviour (which I'm understanding as the "it") is something he's clearly doing in this game as town or scum. It seems to be an implicit assumption that faust is town this time, given that he was scum in the first run-through.
I don't think I agree with the implicit assumption. It's not like Gkrieg is saying he knows Faust does it as both town and scum, since before Faust was scum. He's saying Fasut is doing it now, and now his alignment is {town or scum}.
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WW getting argumentative is scum!WW I think.
Haha, you really cannot read me at all.
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I'm happy with my WW vote. I'm not really following the gkrieg arguments for either said, it's very confusing.
My argument is simple, the other people on my wagon I think are townier, and I doubt my wagon is all town.
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I started this re-read much earlier this afternoon (i.e. in the morning, forum-time-wise), but it got put to one side while I got stuff done. The post counts were correct at whatever points I re-loaded the whole-thread view for a particular read, so they're not all taken at the same point in time.
LaLight (41 posts): Lots of early-game scum-reads and accusations, which isn't quite his usual friendly self. Weird townreading logic at #236. Feels a bit defensive. Then goes totally VLA for four days. Leaning scummier than I'd remembered.
Galzria (31 posts): Surprisingly little early-game content (like before #400). Spends a lot of time defending gkrieg. Null.
gkrieg (31 posts): I really don't like how the case against him has been characterised as being all about the punctuation. I remain suspicious of him, and would like him to engage with my point, rather than letting WW do the work for him. Also, gkrieg seemed to be half-defending RR when the wagon starts up, but then jumped right on.
2.71828..... (48 posts): Seems townie for his enthusiasm for the claiming stuff. He's been really burned by claiming exercises before as scum.
Archetype (8 posts): So little here! Is there a VLA in effect? I'd accuse him of fluff-posting with the highlighting of my unintentional pun, except that he also put something game-relevant in the same post, so I think it feels like he's trying to participate. Very null.
Teproc (22 posts): Townie for pushing claiming in a way that I think benefits town.
Witherweaver (74 posts!): Huge number of posts, though most of them are tiny. I find his lack of quoting makes it hard to sit some of his comments in their right context, so I could misinterpret things easily, but I don't think I'm seeing anything that scummy. I don't get why he's the big alternative to gkrieg.
IDontPlayThisGame (7 posts): Wow, virtually no content, but currently VLA. I remember town!IDP being considerably more proactive at scum-hunting.
Datswan (25 posts): Newbie to me at least. Not really said as much as the post count ought to indicate. Seems a bit hesitant/flakey on votes, but that might be a newbie thing. Nullish.
Qvist (14 posts): Also a new-to-me person, also someone with very little in the early game. Pretty much the same boat as Datswan.
RoadRunner (35 posts): Admits to artificially inflating his post count :-P Has been VLA. Seems to be flaily town for D1. I always think he's not the most pro-town person around, and then he gets lynched and turns out to have been town after all. So town for now to avoid that mess for the time being.
faust (53 posts): He's active in scum-hunting and making people stay accountable, which is good. I dislike the aggressive bit a lot, but I'm not sure it's indicative of alignment. The fact he's not trying to kill off me or gkrieg (or other logic-y people?) is encouraging at least.
SpaceAnemone -- spaaaaaace :-) Only 16 posts, though, which is fewer than I'd thought, even given VLA-ness.
Iguanaiguana (28 posts): I still find the lack of early accountability worrying for the poisoner thing. That can be solved when we see how things look in D3, though, so he's a pretty poor vote choice for today.
Jimmmmm (27 posts): Active early, then less active once his level of activity was pointed out. Doesn't seem very committed.
O (51 posts): Way more active than I'd realised. O's lack of avatar really doesn't work for my visual memory! I feel like he's behaving in the "play to have fun" style he got tunneled by Awaclus for in M100. I do still think that sort of jokiness benefits scum more than town, but I don't think there's other evidence to think he's scum yet.
Okay, as I say, I started this some hours ago and didn't get around to finishing it. Now gkrieg has posted a reasonably satisfactory explanation of the wording thing I was unhappy with, and I'm swinging round to putting him into the maybe-townie box. In contrast, my re-read didn't leave me with warm fuzzies over LL, so I'm going to follow gkrieg and vote: LL instead.
Post leader. *Flex*
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Post leader. *Flex*
Yeah, you illustrate really nicely why post counts are no good as a quantitative measure :-P
I still think it's useful in order to get a feel for order-of-magnitude levels of posting history, though.
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Post leader. *Flex*
Yeah, you illustrate really nicely why post counts are no good as a quantitative measure :-P
I still think it's useful in order to get a feel for order-of-magnitude levels of posting history, though.
Don't belittle my accomplishments.
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Vote Count 1.10
LaLight (3): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828, LaLight, Witherweaver, RoadRunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (3): Qvist, DatSwan, Archetype
DatSwan (2): iguaniguana, faust
Witherweaver (3): O, Teproc, Eevee
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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RoadRunner (35 posts): Seems to be flaily town for D1.
I'm not flailing!
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I could support LL, but he doesn't feel like my 100 partner LL here, so I'm not really convinced he's scum. But at least his is a good case.
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Back to Vote: Datswam
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Back to Vote: Datswam
Just in case it matters - you misspelled
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Back to Vote: Datswam
Just in case it matters - you misspelled
Thank you!
Vote: Datswan
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I could support an IDPTG wagon. Not my top choice, but not the worst either.
The only things of value that he's said are "I don't want my vote on LaLight anymore." And "I don't like having my RVS vote on a wagon" (in reference to the first).
7 posts total though, so interactions are limited.
I've been having a LOT of trouble getting into this game in general and life took over yesterday and much of today. I wouldn't consider myself the worst mislynch. I don't think you'll learn anything but it keeps the more useful town people alive. I'll try to be around for tomorrow morning (forum time) but I'm going to sleep now and I won't be able to post past 11:45 AM forum time.
IDontPlayThisGame (7 posts): Wow, virtually no content, but currently VLA. I remember town!IDP being considerably more proactive at scum-hunting.
For the sake of honesty, I haven't been V/LA- I just haven't found anything to post.
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Sorry - I feel like this D1 has been tough. D2 should be better for me, but we still need a lynch today.
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I am sorry for going absent without much informing, there were some crazy events the last couple of days. First of all wanted to say that last 2-3 games people say I'm acting weird and scumread me though I am town every time. And I feel the same here
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I'll get to rereading in ~2 hours
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The 8 (!!) people not voting need to vote. This game is stagnating, and we're now going for another round of theory talk re: e's plan (not saying it's necessarily bad, but it shouldn't prevent us from scumhunting).
Actually, I think we should lynch within the lurkers, so vote: RR.
I really don't like this post from Teproc. That's exactly what scum does: trying to show they care about all people at once and following the game closely.
This is scummy from gkrieg:
I would expect him to have voted.
I'm not sure you know RR then.
vote: RR
Qvist is mostly speaking about claiming plan, I don't like it.
This looks like DatSwan is trying to get some towncred:
wow DAMA I guess, I totally mis read...
I thought the action was to claim... like claim role.
Yes - this makes sense sorry.
I don't like how after RR posted some clearly non-town stuff people sterted to say he's town. Especially WW
RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee
That would be L-2. unvote for now. Got time. Wanna think.
what is so bad in L-2? More pressure is better
Is it just me or are people just voting randomly. Very few votes were made with reasonable explanations. I know this is day 1, but many didn't even bother explaining, just voted.
I will keep my vote at RR because his reaction was way too defensive when he saw the train going and only outed his lurking, that is my reasoning at least.
And as others pointed out, RR should probably claim now, IMHO.
Scummy, why would he claim now?
The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
Just imagine for a second that gkreig is mafia and we successfully lynch him because he used too many explanation points.
Just imagine for a second that Gkrieg is town and we unfortunately mislynch him because he used too many exclamation points.
Have you proposed any alternative?
So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?
Oh how I like this post! I would write something like that!
Faster, faster, scums, maybe you'll get a derphammer and less analyze material for town!
Actually i am glad that this wagon is happening. Quite informative
This post is slightly scummy from LaLight. He knows this is what town should feel like, but the feeling seems a little hollow compared to town!LaLight.
He even starts trying to analyze his own wagon. The reaction to the votes just seems too fast IMO.
What does it mean, "hollow", "too fast"? These are general words that I can't see meaning of.
Look. There is 16 people i have no idea of alignment of. [most of quote snipped]
Once again, this looks like LaLight trying too hard. I must be really reading LaLight as scum, because now every single one of his posts is scummy to me.
This is called "Confirmation bias" and you should know this. We walked through this in couple of previous games, but I think you were scum there. I also think you are scum here, because it just feels the same.
Quickly reread LaLight, and I can see what gkrieg is saying. I like my vote on WW still, but I could vote for LL as well if the wagon's shake the right way. Not really interested in gkrieg (the reread looks towny! I like how there are some weaker points/more controversial opinions there as well, seems like town attempting to make analysis without too much care for how it makes themselves look) or RR (as referenced about, simply didn't seem scummy to me on reread).
gkrieg's rereads always look insightful and townie, no matter the alignment. This is a weak reason to start townreading him.
LaLight (41 posts): Lots of early-game scum-reads and accusations, which isn't quite his usual friendly self. Weird townreading logic at #236. Feels a bit defensive. Then goes totally VLA for four days. Leaning scummier than I'd remembered.
This is just like how I play lately. I noticed my style changed and people noticed it and scumread me. Last games proved I am town when doing this. I mean, yeah, it's quite bad I started to be less friendly, but it's not scummy. I just changed.
I could support LL, but he doesn't feel like my 100 partner LL here, so I'm not really convinced he's scum. But at least his is a good case.
What is the case again? Being not townread?
Overall I have a deep feeling that scums are ruling this day by moving somewhere with certainty and town is following them there because there's this certainty. I think Teproc/gkrieg/WW are scum to a higher extent, Space and Galzria to a less extent. I am leaving my vote on gkrieg because as I have already said, he scumreads me as town all the time when he is scum himself.
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also Qvist is on scummy side for either talking about claiming plan or asking why people think other people are scummy.
I feel that town is more confused here on D1 than scum. I feel confused as well
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Vote Count 1.10
LaLight (3): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828, LaLight, Witherweaver, RoadRunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (3): Qvist, DatSwan, Archetype
DatSwan (2): iguaniguana, faust
Witherweaver (3): O, Teproc, Eevee
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
Looking at these wagons, I don't really want to vote for LaLight or WW. gkrieg has not been scummy enough to warrant a D1 lynch. Out of RR/DatSwan/Idplay I'm fine with either. Idplay is a bit of a shot in the dark, but he he lurking hard and that doesn't help. RR is too concerned about what people think of him, that's scummy. Also long self-explaining posts are scummy for RR. DatSwan... the thing I thought I had earlier wasn't actually verysolid on closer investigation. On the other hand, there is just not much else.
I think I want to be at vote: RR for the time being.
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Vote: LL
There seems to be no momentum for WW, moving to my 2nd choice.
Interesting that faust and me have seem to have like totally opposite reads from each other. Bound to happen with someone in a game this size, though.
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6 hours to deadline
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Vote: LL
There seems to be no momentum for WW, moving to my 2nd choice.
Interesting that faust and me have seem to have like totally opposite reads from each other. Bound to happen with someone in a game this size, though.
Why is it you don't like Gkrieg?
I'm willing to move to LaLight.
Also worth noting for later on, Faust defending me (or at least being mildly adverse to my lynch) is more commonly a scum!Faust thing from my memory.
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I hope I can be around for it but no promises
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I am here all the time. I ask you to reevaluate your read on me
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
if we would always lynch someone based on the amount of interactions they have we would become a Lurking Society
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After re-reading gkrieg and LaLight, I prefer LL, so I'll leave my vote there.
I still think Qvist and Galz are scummy, Eevee and RR are Towny, and ii is probably Town.
Sadly deadline is something like 4am for me, so I won't be around then.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
if we would always lynch someone based on the amount of interactions they have we would become a Lurking Society
I know, but this is a one time thing and not necessarily a policy thing.
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Vote: LL
There seems to be no momentum for WW, moving to my 2nd choice.
Interesting that faust and me have seem to have like totally opposite reads from each other. Bound to happen with someone in a game this size, though.
Why is it you don't like Gkrieg?
I'm willing to move to LaLight.
Also worth noting for later on, Faust defending me (or at least being mildly adverse to my lynch) is more commonly a scum!Faust thing from my memory.
Some towny opinions in gkrieg's reread post, and when many others want to lynch someone and you don't really get why, it's usually a bad idea to join.
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I'll be here on and off until the deadline.
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okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
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okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
Well this kind of obligates me to vote you.
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okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
Well this kind of obligates me to vote you.
In your previous post you said you would do this nevertheless, didn't you?
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okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
Well this kind of obligates me to vote you.
In your previous post you said you would do this nevertheless, didn't you?
Well, yes. I think I would still prefer out of Qvist, Gkrieg... maybe O still but I doubt that would happen.
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okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
Well this kind of obligates me to vote you.
In your previous post you said you would do this nevertheless, didn't you?
Well, yes. I think I would still prefer out of Qvist, Gkrieg... maybe O still but I doubt that would happen.
I could stand behind O's lynch btw. But will this happen?
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Off/on until deadline as well, though mostly off. Still like lynching WW, por track record or not.
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I doubt it. And I don't feel it as much any more.
Let's see if
Vote: Qvist
can happen.
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vote: Qvist
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What is scummy about me?
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Unannounced V/LA. This past weekend + today were/are busy. I'll get something substantial down later tonight.
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What is scummy about me?
I have listed it in my reread. You don't try to find scum, you are talking either of claiming idea or asking why people think other people are scummy.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
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Unannounced V/LA. This past weekend + today were/are busy. I'll get something substantial down later tonight.
"Later tonight" is past deadline. Contribute NOW.
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How am I not trying to find scum. I laid out why I think RR, WW and Eevee are looking suspicious to me.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
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How am I not trying to find scum. I laid out why I think RR, WW and Eevee are looking suspicious to me.
Yes, but I am telling about what you are mostly telling
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Unannounced V/LA. This past weekend + today were/are busy. I'll get something substantial down later tonight.
3 hours to the deadline, FYI.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
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vote count, please
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Better question is how does he know you'll be alive~
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I really dig how you guys put things off to the last minute. But what is time anyway, man?
Vote Count 1.11
LaLight (4): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, Eevee
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828
RoadRunner7671 (4): Qvist, DatSwan, Archetype, faust
DatSwan (2): iguaniguana, RoadRunner7671
Witherweaver (2): O, Teproc
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Galzria
Qvist (2): Witherweaver, LaLight
Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
I am here till the deadline as I believe I have already said. And I won't let no lynch happen, of course I will join the biggest wagon. Idea was to check if Qvist is viable to lynch. After all there's like 3 more hours
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vote: RR by the way. I had no idea vote count looks like this
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be
You're nullish. I have no particular reason to lynch you. Plus you're easy to read later on, so even among my null reads, you are low priority.
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
I am here till the deadline as I believe I have already said. And I won't let no lynch happen, of course I will join the biggest wagon. Idea was to check if Qvist is viable to lynch. After all there's like 3 more hours
We have 3 more hours, but we also need a lot of people on a wagon to have a lynch.
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
Right, because scum partners love to tie themselves together in knots.
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
Right, because scum partners love to tie themselves together in knots.
Well you could be different scum!
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be
You're nullish. I have no particular reason to lynch you. Plus you're easy to read later on, so even among my null reads, you are low priority.
I would say RR becomes easier to read as the game goes on, as well.
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I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be
You're nullish. I have no particular reason to lynch you. Plus you're easy to read later on, so even among my null reads, you are low priority.
I would say RR becomes easier to read as the game goes on, as well.
Well, not for me. Also RR is already scummy.
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Vote: LaLight
Would want to lynch LL and WW both tomorrow as well, seems they've both agreed to gun for the nolynch over lynching each other which is incredibly scummy.
Right, because scum partners love to tie themselves together in knots.
Well you could be different scum!
But then how is the symmetric linking relevant?
-
vote: LaLight
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I was going to not vote for LaLight but then he voted for me. Now I might.
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
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Hum. PPE. WW seems as unlikely as IDPTG.
vote: LL
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L-2
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Intent to put to L-1
-
Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
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don't you feel this is an easy lynch? There isn't even a single person trying to avoid my lynch, all scum is here
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
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don't you feel this is an easy lynch? There isn't even a single person trying to avoid my lynch, all scum is here
Hey I'm working on it.
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don't you feel this is an easy lynch? There isn't even a single person trying to avoid my lynch, all scum is here
Hey I'm working on it.
yeah, I'm trying to do something too
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Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
-
vote: LaLight
Also, uh this is so bad. How much support would we he for an Idplay lynch?
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Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
But also you've said you don't think I am scum, remember?
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
I uh really don't think so. Well, maybe that scum game, but he has certainly acted this way as scum before.
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Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
I'm cool with LaLight claiming now.
PPE 2
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my lynch is not the end of the world to be honest, but it would be better if we could do someone else.
-
Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
I'm cool with LaLight claiming now.
PPE 2
Yeah but you don't get to decide.
-
Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
I'm cool with LaLight claiming now.
PPE 2
I won't claim until I am at L-1 with Intent to hammer :P
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I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
But also you've said you don't think I am scum, remember?
I've said you don't feel like my partner from M100. And that's true. I haven't ruled out RR as scum. I'm willing to vote for him (see my list above).
-
I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
I uh really don't think so. Well, maybe that scum game, but he has certainly acted this way as scum before.
Well unfortunately that is, to my fame of reference, the only experience with scum RR I've had in recent memory. Everything else has been town RR, and looks similar to that.
-
frame*
-
I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
I uh really don't think so. Well, maybe that scum game, but he has certainly acted this way as scum before.
Well unfortunately that is, to my fame of reference, the only experience with scum RR I've had in recent memory. Everything else has been town RR, and looks similar to that.
I am genuinely confused. Do you think RR is town or scum?
-
I am confused that Galzria apparent has two townreads on his "willing to lynch" list. Do you have stronger townreads on all the players not on the list?
-
Who do I need to vote for?
-
Who do I need to vote for?
RR, i guess
-
I think an early, read-free RR mislynch is something established players likely go for when they're scum.
Of course there would be less resistance to lynching you LL when it's occurring 3 hours till deadline. That's a pretty illegitimate argument.
-
Who do I need to vote for?
LL is closest to lynch, RR second closest.
-
Vote: LL
L-1
-
Unvote
-
I think an early, read-free RR mislynch is something established players likely go for when they're scum.
Of course there would be less resistance to lynching you LL when it's occurring 3 hours till deadline. That's a pretty illegitimate argument.
Hasn't LaLight been a major wagon for like most of the game?
-
I don't think he's scum and I don't really like self preservation.
-
I don't think he's scum and I don't really like self preservation.
Want to vote Idplay?
-
I don't think he's scum and I don't really like self preservation.
Want to vote Idplay?
No opinion
-
I think an early, read-free RR mislynch is something established players likely go for when they're scum.
Of course there would be less resistance to lynching you LL when it's occurring 3 hours till deadline. That's a pretty illegitimate argument.
Hasn't LaLight been a major wagon for like most of the game?
Not really? he was the leading wagon very early but i don't recall it being very large or close to a lynch. I'd say RR and Gkrieg, your wagon, are the leading wagons for most of the day.
-
Vote: IDPTG
-
I think an early, read-free RR mislynch is something established players likely go for when they're scum.
Of course there would be less resistance to lynching you LL when it's occurring 3 hours till deadline. That's a pretty illegitimate argument.
Hasn't LaLight been a major wagon for like most of the game?
Not really? he was the leading wagon very early but i don't recall it being very large or close to a lynch. I'd say RR and Gkrieg, your wagon, are the leading wagons for most of the day.
Huh I guess you're right. I remembered the early-game thing and thought it just continued, but he actually was down to 1 vote only some time ago.
-
Hm. Vote: Idplay
-
I think an early, read-free RR mislynch is something established players likely go for when they're scum.
Of course there would be less resistance to lynching you LL when it's occurring 3 hours till deadline. That's a pretty illegitimate argument.
Hasn't LaLight been a major wagon for like most of the game?
Not really? he was the leading wagon very early but i don't recall it being very large or close to a lynch. I'd say RR and Gkrieg, your wagon, are the leading wagons for most of the day.
Huh I guess you're right. I remembered the early-game thing and thought it just continued, but he actually was down to 1 vote only some time ago.
Not for a long tome though
-
not sure if I'll be back by DL. e are you going to L-1 LL or should I vote IPDTG
-
We can vote: IDPTG
-
Vote: IDon'tPlayThisGame
-
However:
vote: LaLight
Also, uh this is so bad. How much support would we he for an Idplay lynch?
Can you clarify this?
-
Vote: IDPTG
this is a pretty lousy lynch overall
-
vote: idptg
-
This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
-
I am confused that Galzria apparent has two townreads on his "willing to lynch" list. Do you have stronger townreads on all the players not on the list?
O is my only town read. Most players are null. RR is on the scummy side of null, so I'm willing to lynch him. Yes, his response reminded me more of town RR than scum RR, but by his own admission he doesn't want to be judged on the response.
LL doesn't remind me of 100. Where you've decided that means I town read him is your own false assumptions.
My order for scumminess goes: Eevee -> WW -> IDPTG -> LL -> e -> RR -> Everybody Else (null).
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This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
This comment raises my suspicion.
-
This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
This comment raises my suspicion.
Suspicion on gkrieg or idptg?
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This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
i agree. LL>IDPTG!
If we want to go for a surprise option, I'd prefer Qvist.
But really, just LL is my preference.
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This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
I challenge you to find where he was townie
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This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
This comment raises my suspicion.
Suspicion on gkrieg or idptg?
On Gkrieg.
-
I don't wanna Lynch Qvist
-
This is really what we are doing? LaLight is a much better lynch than IDPTG. IDPTG hasn't done much, and was townie somewhere.
i agree. LL>IDPTG!
If we want to go for a surprise option, I'd prefer Qvist.
But really, just LL is my preference.
I think I like the Qvist route. Not sure we can get enough. Jimmmm was the first person to suggest it, but he's probably off because of timezone, so we wouldn't have him.
-
What is IDPTG up to now, anyway? And 2 hours until deadline?
-
What is IDPTG up to now, anyway? And 2 hours until deadline?
6 i think
-
What is IDPTG up to now, anyway? And 2 hours until deadline?
6 i think
7. L-2
-
What is IDPTG up to now, anyway? And 2 hours until deadline?
6 i think
Nope 1 hour 40 minutes
-
What's the count at? . Pre-Coffee Swan math has been proven to suck :P
I don't really like the IDPTG case but I don't really like any of the cases so I guess light decisions will have to be made unfortunately.
Vote: IDPTG
pretty sure that's l-1
-
What is IDPTG up to now, anyway? And 2 hours until deadline?
6 i think
Nope 1 hour 40 minutes
Votes, not time to lynch
-
IDPTG was townie for jumping off the wagon that he was RVS on. It definitely reads as newbie cautious townie.
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IDPTG was townie for jumping off the wagon that he was RVS on. It definitely reads as newbie cautious townie.
He's not really that newbie, though. Also it seems equally likely to be done as scum.
-
IDPTG was townie for jumping off the wagon that he was RVS on. It definitely reads as newbie cautious townie.
That might be. If he ever posted any other vote, thought, or opinion that wasn't RVS. But he hasn't, so...
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I'm back from VLA. Lunch break. Didn't know deadline was so close. Haven't caught up all the way. Someone help?
-
I'm back from VLA. Lunch break. Didn't know deadline was so close. Haven't caught up all the way. Someone help?
it seems to be down to LL and IDPTG right now.
-
I'm back from VLA. Lunch break. Didn't know deadline was so close. Haven't caught up all the way. Someone help?
Idptg is at L-1, I am at L-3 i believe
-
Why Idplay?
-
I'm back from VLA. Lunch break. Didn't know deadline was so close. Haven't caught up all the way. Someone help?
Idptg is at L-1, I am at L-3 i believe
I think many of your votes moved to the IDPTG wagon.
-
Why Idplay?
exactly
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Vote Count 1.12
LaLight (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria
RoadRunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
DatSwan (1): iguaniguana
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
IDontPlayThisGame (7): RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, Witherweaver, O, LaLight, DatSwan
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 25th, at 2:00 PM. Godspeed.
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I'm back from VLA. Lunch break. Didn't know deadline was so close. Haven't caught up all the way. Someone help?
Idptg is at L-1, I am at L-3 i believe
I think many of your votes moved to the IDPTG wagon.
Not really. E, WW, faust, RR, Galz weren't voting for me
-
More scummy people on the Idplay wagon. And Lalight being hard to lynch all day is giving me a bad vibe.
Vote: Lalight
-
It would be nice if the RR voters would move. Teproc as well, but I think he is V/LA or something?
-
Also I really don't like how the IDPTG wagon started. If only one person switched from the LaLight wagon, it definitely seems the IDPTG is a scum-driven counterwagon to save LaLight.
Very scummy that it was basically all the people that weren't voting for LaLight.
-
Meh, I don't like either option
-
I going to get ready for and drive in to work. See you all in an hour
-
More scummy people on the Idplay wagon. And Lalight being hard to lynch all day is giving me a bad vibe.
Vote: Lalight
I was never hard to lynch, there was no rush.
-
Galz, according to your scum>town list you shouldn't be voting me
-
My dance classes start now and go till deadline, i will be here in breaks between dances :)
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More scummy people on the Idplay wagon. And Lalight being hard to lynch all day is giving me a bad vibe.
Vote: Lalight
I was never hard to lynch, there was no rush.
Then why are we lynching with 70 min to deadline?
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More scummy people on the Idplay wagon. And Lalight being hard to lynch all day is giving me a bad vibe.
Vote: Lalight
I was never hard to lynch, there was no rush.
Then why are we lynching with 70 min to deadline?
D1. Why would we quicklynch? There's no hard evidence D1
-
What do people think of idptg or LL claiming?
I think they should at least claim bid and order.
-
I can claim. I think idptg is not here
-
I mean bid and order
-
Are you all scum? We need a lynch
-
48 minutes still. Plenty of time (to vote for LL!).
-
I'm around now. Can be here closer to deadline than I'd thought, because bike trouble means I'm forced to be on foot today, which takes extra commuting time, but has the advantage that I can check my phone on the way.
-
I can't check before deadline again. Sorry.
-
I can't check before deadline again. Sorry.
Have you read my reply to you though?
-
I will be here for the deadline I think. Can switch but don't want to.
-
We must not nolynch, tomorrow will be terrible if we don't at least get a flip out of this.
If any of Qvist, Archetype and Teproc see this before it's too late, please vote for whichever you think is scummier!
-
Vote: LaLight
is L-1.
-
Bid 16 position 6. Don't really want to say more
-
I don't like IDP as a lynch candidate as much because there's so little to go on. I was falsely assuming a VLA when I made my assessment last night, so I guess it's fair to move him a little higher up my scum list, but LL still feels off to me, and that's definite evidence, rather than just a suspicious lack of evidence.
-
I have 5 minutes then i'm gone. Haw idptg claimed ?
-
I have 5 minutes then i'm gone. Haw idptg claimed ?
He didn't
-
I guess not. I can hammer, I like that lynch more than LL
-
I guess not. I can hammer, I like that lynch more than LL
What hammer, he has like 6 votes now...
-
I think IDPTG is not at L-1 now.
-
I will move back though.
-
I guess not. I can hammer, I like that lynch more than LL
Vote who you think is scum. Idptg scumpartners will be forced to lynch him over no lynch
-
Well, thats annoying but lets go.
vote: idptg
-
Note also that RR and O are the two main late drifters from the LL wagon onto IDP: RR moved at #665, and O at #679.
RR has also been active online very recently, so if there's a partner to be found, that's a good place to look.
-
Vote: IDPTG
-
vc?
-
Idptg is at 8, LaLight at 7
-
Idptg is at L-1, I am at L-2
-
#739
LaLight (7): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (8): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., O, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver
-
Galz weirdly said he is voting idptg when he's not
-
I won't switch. LaLight or no lynch!
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
-
Let's do LL! Way more interactions too.
-
I won't switch. LaLight or no lynch!
Wow. Only because idptg was "townie somewhere"
-
If LaLight is scum, faust is definitely not a partner. He busses much easier than this.
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
No, it doesn't. Not hammering does not mean scummy. We still have 15 minutes
-
It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
-
If LaLight is scum, faust is definitely not a partner. He busses much easier than this.
It crosses my mind you know who are partners in this game
-
I won't switch. LaLight or no lynch!
Wow. Only because idptg was "townie somewhere"
Also because there has been no case on IDPTG, where there was a good case on you. IDPTG was townie, exactly where I said he was (read a little further where I say that him jumping off the wagon where he had RVS'd was townie!)
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
I am not preventing LaLight from getting lynched. I will vote there if we need.
-
If LaLight is scum, faust is definitely not a partner. He busses much easier than this.
It crosses my mind you know who are partners in this game
I'm just expecting that we will lynch you, you will flip scum, and I will die in the night. So I'm giving my last words.
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If LaLight is scum, faust is definitely not a partner. He busses much easier than this.
It crosses my mind you know who are partners in this game
I'm just expecting that we will lynch you, you will flip scum, and I will die in the night. So I'm giving my last words.
I won't flip scum!
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If LaLight is scum, faust is definitely not a partner. He busses much easier than this.
It crosses my mind you know who are partners in this game
I'm just expecting that we will lynch you, you will flip scum, and I will die in the night. So I'm giving my last words.
Feels disingenuous.
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
No, it doesn't. Not hammering does not mean scummy. We still have 15 minutes
I'm going phone-only now, so I can't do any more vote-counting. I really don't like when it goes so close to the wire!
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
If anything this applies more to people with regards to lynching IDPTG than LL.
-
Archetype and Qvist were both just online too, some hope they might come back in time (14 minutes). WW promising to vote for either means they are both effectively at L-1 now.
-
Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
No, it doesn't. Not hammering does not mean scummy. We still have 15 minutes
I'm going phone-only now, so I can't do any more vote-counting. I really don't like when it goes so close to the wire!
So vote idptg
-
Let's not wait until 30 seconds left guys. I don't like either of these options, and I do not think that LL is gonna flip skum - more interactions is a good point, but based on the amount of games they have played, I am assuming they would be a good team mate to have around...
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Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
If anything this applies more to people with regards to lynching IDPTG than LL.
How so? There are people who've expressed willingness to vote IDP, and all it takes is one last-minute person to hammer when both are at L-1, but then you redistributed the votes to a point where LL wasn't at L-1 any more.
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Teproc had a chance to hammer LL and chose to vote for IDP. Then WW switched wagons, virtually guaranteeing that LL doesn't get lynched. This looks super-scummy!
If anything this applies more to people with regards to lynching IDPTG than LL.
How so? There are people who've expressed willingness to vote IDP, and all it takes is one last-minute person to hammer when both are at L-1, but then you redistributed the votes to a point where LL wasn't at L-1 any more.
You are not correctly reading this thread.
-
I'll switch at 1 minute left if no one votes for LL before that.
-
hey guys
I'm here briefly
can't read and VC
who do i vote to get a lynch
-
Idptg
-
It's between IDPTG and LL. Both needing one more vote.
-
Vote: LaLight looks right? Already on IDPTG so i can't count towards the one there
-
Bingo!
WW?
-
Jailkeeper
-
JAILKEEPER
-
Vote: IDPTG
-
Bingo!
WW?
Stay on idptg. The lynch will go through
-
I will freaking die N1, but at least we will lynch scum!
-
I think LL is town.
-
LL sure sounds like scum.
-
Why not soft claim rather than let it get to this point if you're town LL.
Super suspicious of claim but not going to lynch a JK based off of my distaste/stubborness
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Eevee feels scummy right now
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Why not soft claim rather than let it get to this point if you're town LL.
Super suspicious of claim but not going to lynch a JK based off of my distaste/stubborness
Claimed draft positron and bid earlier, so kind of did
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No, that claim feels scummy!
I guess we should lynch IDPTG anyways. Meh. I'll think for a bit, probably switch.
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No, that claim feels scummy!
I guess we should lynch IDPTG anyways. Meh. I'll think for a bit, probably switch.
"probably"?
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I'm down for Eevee. But not in 5 minutes lol
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Vote: IDPTG
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Why not soft claim rather than let it get to this point if you're town LL.
Super suspicious of claim but not going to lynch a JK based off of my distaste/stubborness
Claimed draft positron and bid earlier, so kind of did
like in past few hours earlier?
damnit wish someone quoted me that
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Eevee feels scummy right now
Agreed.
PPE
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Thread Locked.
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Vote Count 1.Final
LaLight (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguaniguana
RoadRunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (9): RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver, O, Eevee
With 17 alive it took 9 to lynch.
IDontPlayThisGame has been crossed off Jacob's list. He was Charlie Pace, the Vanilla Crash Survivor.
Night 1 begins now and ends at 2:00 PM on Wednesday, September 27. Night actions are due within 48 hours. Godspeed.
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Greetings, fellow Dharma Initiative members! Though I have lost the use of my arm, I remain as dedicated to science as ever. Fortunately, our research into re-growing body parts has shown some promise: nearly two out of every ten test subjects has survived the procedure!
As I was returning from the Staff Station last night, I encountered a strange old man attempting to breach the security perimeter. He wore a lab coat like mine, was suffering from nose bleeds, and, ironically, was also one-armed! What are the odds?
After extensive torture questioning in Room 23, the old man revealed that he was from the future, and had important information for me. "Why didn't you just tell me that in the first place, we could have avoided the, uh, questioning?" I asked. He said he knew it would have been pointless, since whatever happened happened, and he had already experienced these events from another point of view. Before he could clarify this further, he died from a cerebral hemorrhage. We buried him somewhere no one will ever find him.
The old man did say one other thing before he died: he confirmed that Jimmmmm is Aaron Littleton, the Crash Survivors-aligned Day 2 Innocent Child.
Oh, it appears the strange old man was not the only casualty last night.
Witherweaver was found dead of a gunshot wound to the chest. He was Shannon Rutherford, the Vanilla Crash Survivor.
Day 2 begins now. Thread unlocked!
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Soul Read - Jimmm seems townie to me....
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Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (15): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, O, Eevee
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
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so SM didn't kill or was blocked! Also I'm glad WW is dead. He is one of the hardest people for me to read!
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so SM didn't kill or was blocked! Also I'm glad WW is dead. He is one of the hardest people for me to read!
Oh yes, maybe he was blocked
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I'm not sure what the WW kill means. He had a pretty good wagon going on him. He was also a high poster, so my guess is that someone on the scum team cares about that, which would point to Teproc IIRC.
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Oh my. Okay being busy right now, will do a re read tomorrow when I have more time give the new infos.
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so SM didn't kill or was blocked! Also I'm glad WW is dead. He is one of the hardest people for me to read!
Oh yes, maybe he was blocked
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't shoot, so I think it is very likely they were blocked.
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Doctor, Roleblocker, 1-shot killproof, JK are the only ones that could've stopped the kill.
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so SM didn't kill or was blocked! Also I'm glad WW is dead. He is one of the hardest people for me to read!
Oh yes, maybe he was blocked
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't shoot, so I think it is very likely they were blocked.
Oh yes, I know. i also know who i blocked
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
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vote: Eevee
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so SM didn't kill or was blocked! Also I'm glad WW is dead. He is one of the hardest people for me to read!
Oh yes, maybe he was blocked
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't shoot, so I think it is very likely they were blocked.
PPE vote: Eevee
Oh yes, I know. i also know who i blocked
I don't think anyone would take doctor, so it was either 1-shot killproof or RB or JK I would guess.
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
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I think i know why ww was killed. He didn't care who to lynch
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And also now do you realize i behave weirdely when I am a pr? That happened every other game. I really didn't want to claim
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
Early bus, huh?
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
I was gunning for you way before EoD, so I don't think this argument holds.
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
Early bus, huh?
I figured you had blocked Eevee.
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And also now do you realize i behave weirdely when I am a pr? That happened every other game. I really didn't want to claim
But when you act weirdly, it increases the likelihood that you will have to claim...
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
I was gunning for you way before EoD, so I don't think this argument holds.
But "no lynch or LaLight lynch"? Really? Can you, please, explain it? Idptg was "townie somewhere? Why hopping off the wagon of RVS is town!trait?
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I think i know why ww was killed. He didn't care who to lynch
?
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And also now do you realize i behave weirdely when I am a pr? That happened every other game. I really didn't want to claim
But when you act weirdly, it increases the likelihood that you will have to claim...
I am not that good. When I'm a pr, a good pr even, I always act very different from when I'm a vt... i can't do anything. I try, but eventually nothing works and people read me as scum
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
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I think i know why ww was killed. He didn't care who to lynch
?
I think only one role/alignment doesn't care who to lynch
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
I was gunning for you way before EoD, so I don't think this argument holds.
But "no lynch or LaLight lynch"? Really? Can you, please, explain it? Idptg was "townie somewhere? Why hopping off the wagon of RVS is town!trait?
Well for starters, I was right. IDPTG was town, so everything he did came from a town perspective. I was saying that for IDPTG, who is relatively new and still timid about lynching people, jumping off an early RVS wagon that is getting kind of close to lynch is townie.
You did some legitimately scummy things D1, and the fact that people were choosing to lynch a lurker with no case on them, and the way the wagon popped up was clearly not going to lead to a scum lynch.
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I really need to reread. I had a terrible D1, I will try to do better today.
That betting said, I believe LaLight. But a jailkeeper target does not do anything at all to convict someone as scum.
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
I guess I have a different view of this game. I don't think Eevee is the de facto lynch today. What makes you think that? Like especially to the point that you think Eevee's scum partners would bus him because it is unsalvageable?
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I am very interested in this
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
I was gunning for you way before EoD, so I don't think this argument holds.
But "no lynch or LaLight lynch"? Really? Can you, please, explain it? Idptg was "townie somewhere? Why hopping off the wagon of RVS is town!trait?
Well for starters, I was right. IDPTG was town, so everything he did came from a town perspective. I was saying that for IDPTG, who is relatively new and still timid about lynching people, jumping off an early RVS wagon that is getting kind of close to lynch is townie.
You did some legitimately scummy things D1, and the fact that people were choosing to lynch a lurker with no case on them, and the way the wagon popped up was clearly not going to lead to a scum lynch.
Look. The only question I have is why would scum not hop off. They would, cause staying on rvs wagon is scummy. Idptg was town, that's true. I am questioning you. Whether you knew for sure he was town or not.
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So.... draft positions 11-17 claim now?
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
I guess I have a different view of this game. I don't think Eevee is the de facto lynch today. What makes you think that? Like especially to the point that you think Eevee's scum partners would bus him because it is unsalvageable?
His logic also fails because if he were correct in that he blocked a kill by targeting Eevee then Eevee couldn't have "scum partners" - as the mafia kill went through last night. The only kill he could've blocked was the SM. There could be a Mother, but that's it.
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I really need to reread. I had a terrible D1, I will try to do better today.
That betting said, I believe LaLight. But a jailkeeper target does not do anything at all to convict someone as scum.
It does help narrow down who the SM is. They HAD to be blocked or their target chose 1-shot deathproof or was jailed. 1-shot deathproof isn't very useful for finding SM, and they definitely shouldn't claim.
RB and JK should consider claiming their targets though.
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I agree with you, but could you spell it out for me?
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I agree with you, but could you spell it out for me?
My bid and draft leaves an extremely limited number of possible ways to end up at "bid 16, draft 6", most of which are incredibly unlikely at best.
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Is it just me or Eevee and gkrieg behaved like they knew for sure alignments of both of me and idptg and craved for some town cred knowing the lynch will nevertheless happen?
I was gunning for you way before EoD, so I don't think this argument holds.
But "no lynch or LaLight lynch"? Really? Can you, please, explain it? Idptg was "townie somewhere? Why hopping off the wagon of RVS is town!trait?
Well for starters, I was right. IDPTG was town, so everything he did came from a town perspective. I was saying that for IDPTG, who is relatively new and still timid about lynching people, jumping off an early RVS wagon that is getting kind of close to lynch is townie.
You did some legitimately scummy things D1, and the fact that people were choosing to lynch a lurker with no case on them, and the way the wagon popped up was clearly not going to lead to a scum lynch.
Look. The only question I have is why would scum not hop off. They would, cause staying on rvs wagon is scummy. Idptg was town, that's true. I am questioning you. Whether you knew for sure he was town or not.
I mean I'm still sure that you have a much higher likelihood of being scum that he does. I really didn't think IDPTG would be scum, and I don't think his wagon is really all that useful, where I think your lynch would've been much more useful because it would've told us a lot about the alignment of the people that started the IDPTG wagon.
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Why else would WW be killed..?
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Because they don't want to be NKed ? Maybe there's a high concentration of mafia in the candidates ?
What's your explanation for the WW kill otherwise.
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Why would Mafia not kill or block a claimed JK, and instead "Go SK hunting "?
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
I guess I have a different view of this game. I don't think Eevee is the de facto lynch today. What makes you think that? Like especially to the point that you think Eevee's scum partners would bus him because it is unsalvageable?
No one says he is de facto lynch, no one says it is unsalvageable. It's just Eevee really was scummy at the EoD yesterDay, so now you voting for him would be a plus for you if/when he gets lynched. Tell me, why did you vote for him in the first place?
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
I don't claim this.
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Why would Mafia not kill or block a claimed JK, and instead "Go SK hunting "?
{Insert every reason I ever gave in M100}
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Why else would WW be killed..?
Exactly. That's what I meant.
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How was Eevee scummy at end of day ? People said that but I didn't really see it.
ALso, why did you JK him ? Just because you thought he was scum ?
PPE: Right, ok. Given the no SK-kill, I'm of the opinion that you should claim your target.
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
I don't claim this.
I read your posts to imply this.
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
I guess I have a different view of this game. I don't think Eevee is the de facto lynch today. What makes you think that? Like especially to the point that you think Eevee's scum partners would bus him because it is unsalvageable?
No one says he is de facto lynch, no one says it is unsalvageable. It's just Eevee really was scummy at the EoD yesterDay, so now you voting for him would be a plus for you if/when he gets lynched. Tell me, why did you vote for him in the first place?
I feel like you missed one of my posts or something. I thought he was your JK target, and it is unlikely that SM would kill Eevee, which means that he has a pretty high chance of being the SM
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How was Eevee scummy at end of day ? People said that but I didn't really see it.
ALso, why did you JK him ? Just because you thought he was scum ?
PPE: Right, ok. Given the no SK-kill, I'm of the opinion that you should claim your target.
May I claim my target a little later? I want to look at reactions.
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Why would Mafia not kill or block a claimed JK, and instead "Go SK hunting "?
This
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
AMA: Why would town!LL be alive?
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
I guess I have a different view of this game. I don't think Eevee is the de facto lynch today. What makes you think that? Like especially to the point that you think Eevee's scum partners would bus him because it is unsalvageable?
No one says he is de facto lynch, no one says it is unsalvageable. It's just Eevee really was scummy at the EoD yesterDay, so now you voting for him would be a plus for you if/when he gets lynched. Tell me, why did you vote for him in the first place?
I feel like you missed one of my posts or something. I thought he was your JK target, and it is unlikely that SM would kill Eevee, which means that he has a pretty high chance of being the SM
hm. So you voted for him because you thought I jk'd him.
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
Makes sense why I feel like we are going in circles.
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
AMA: Why would town!LL be alive?
there is a concept called Wine In Front Of Me. It is called after something something about princess and means that scum wants to trick town into thinking wrong
Anyway, I'm surprised, but not a lot. I though scum would do something like this.
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So, LL, just to be clear: you are claiming to have targete Eevee last night, correct ?
If so, I'd like to know the thought process here.
WW kill seemed weird to me at first, but I suppose mafia went SK-hunting.
PPE: 8
WHY ON EARTH would mafia go "SK-hunting'??
Because they don't want to be NKed ? Maybe there's a high concentration of mafia in the candidates ?
What's your explanation for the WW kill otherwise.
My explanation is that WW was a high poster.
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How was Eevee scummy at end of day ? People said that but I didn't really see it.
ALso, why did you JK him ? Just because you thought he was scum ?
PPE: Right, ok. Given the no SK-kill, I'm of the opinion that you should claim your target.
May I claim my target a little later? I want to look at reactions.
I don't dictate when your claim anyway, but I'm fine with that. I also thought your posts were a softclaim re: Eevee which is why I wanted you to clarify.
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vote: Teproc
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vote: Teproc
this is a bad vote.
Vote: Gkrieg
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
AMA: Why would town!LL be alive?
there is a concept called Wine In Front Of Me. It is called after something something about princess and means that scum wants to trick town into thinking wrong
Anyway, I'm surprised, but not a lot. I though scum would do something like this.
On the Australians side, they have an unreliable chance of getting you lynched. On Dread Pirate Robert's side, they're keeping the JK alive extra days and taking a large risk of getting blocked.
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WW was a low content poster despite his high volume
My explanation is that WW was a high poster.
WW was a low content per volume poster.
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vote: Teproc
May I ask why ?
If it's about WW dying, I don't know why I'm more likely than other people to kill active townies, though I do think I am more likely to kill WW in particular, but you didn't mention that, so ?
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yea i completely botched that quote..
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
AMA: Why would town!LL be alive?
there is a concept called Wine In Front Of Me. It is called after something something about princess and means that scum wants to trick town into thinking wrong
Anyway, I'm surprised, but not a lot. I though scum would do something like this.
On the Australians side, they have an unreliable chance of getting you lynched. On Dread Pirate Robert's side, they're keeping the JK alive extra days and taking a large risk of getting blocked.
You got me to google the stuff. I didn't really watch, shame on me.
This is not a large risk, 15 people left, I am known for terrible reads. Also I think they thought I will be the default lynch for today, but I will fight it as well as I can!
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LL, how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?
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There was a lot of active posters, most of whom are easy to read. WW is not, so leaving him alive would make town think about his alignment. WW kill doesn't make sense unless they were SK!Hunting
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LL, how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?
None.
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LL, how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?
Why?
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I was correctly lynched twice though
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okay, guys, I am sorry, but I need to go. I will claim my target soon, I promise, I need to look at the situation with sober eyes.
I think gk and Eevee are scum partners though.
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vote: Teproc
this is a bad vote.
Vote: Gkrieg
Teproc is the one who was talking about empty posts and post counts and stuff right? That is the only reason I can think of why you kill WW. I don't think you want to kill people that had a wagon on them D1, because they have the most information. We now know 2 people who had wagons on them are town, which can tell us something about the game.
Space, could we get the list of everyone that voted for WW or IDPTG please?
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That's what I thought. And it makes me a little doubtful that mafia was hoping to mislynch you: it'd be like counting on mislynching yuma or e: some people are just good at talking themselves out of lynches.
Let's see you try ! vote: LL
PPE: I don't do post counts. I do vote counts, but I never cared about post counts. You're confusing me with faust.
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I think gk and Eevee are scum partners though.
I think this is rather unlikely given my reaction to what I thought was your claim to have jailed Eevee...
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That's what I thought. And it makes me a little doubtful that mafia was hoping to mislynch you: it'd be like counting on mislynching yuma or e: some people are just good at talking themselves out of lynches.
Let's see you try ! vote: LL
PPE: I don't do post counts. I do vote counts, but I never cared about post counts. You're confusing me with faust.
Hmmmm. If you're right, then unvote. I still have a gut scum read on you, although much of it was coming from thinking you are likely to kill WW and actually convince a scum team to go along with you on it.
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (1): LaLight
Teproc (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): O
LaLight (1): Teproc
Not Voting (11): Jimmmmm, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, DatSwan, Eevee
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
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vote: Teproc
this is a bad vote.
Vote: Gkrieg
Teproc is the one who was talking about empty posts and post counts and stuff right? That is the only reason I can think of why you kill WW. I don't think you want to kill people that had a wagon on them D1, because they have the most information. We now know 2 people who had wagons on them are town, which can tell us something about the game.
Space, could we get the list of everyone that voted for WW or IDPTG please?
Didn't update for the end game but up until #600 I have
WW: O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg, Eevee, LL
IDPTG: faust, WW, Eevee, Galzria, RR, e, O, LL, DatSwan, Teproc
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I did update it actually, forgot to remove that sentence.
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I would also like to know why I was scummy at end of day. I worked really hard to a) get my preferred lynch through or b) if not, at least get a lynch through. I put myself in a position where I was in the spotlight, it was the end of day, so I'd be held accountable for my actions, and in the end I had to make decisions on a minutes notice. Is that a position scum wants to be in?
I thought that WW had a (relatively) good chance of being scum (wrong), that LL had a (relatively) good chance of being scum AND that his claim was very dubious (I'm coming around to LL probably being town now). I saw IDPTG as basically a random lurker lynch, but a bad one because you wan't your random lynches to be YOUR random lynches, and because of the way (the voters weren't my townreads, my scumreads were the alternative lynches) and speed (quick!) that wagon went up. I just didn't believe we would get scum that way.
The confidence I projected and the stuff I said about switching my vote 1 minute before the deadline but not earlier (gkrieg went further) was just me trying to get my preferred lynches through, a negotiation tactic. Right after LL claimed, I thought if truthful, he'd just get killed instantly. Then people talked me to my senses and once LL was off the table and there was 10 minutes to the deadline, I thought lynching IDPTG to avoid the nolynch was the necessary move, because trying another lynch would have caused an untenable risk for nolynch, so I hammered him. LL, why do you think you survived? I guess a watcher is pretty likely to be present, since it's the role town is always taking if they won slot 5. I was going to say that this probably suggests that scum doesn't have ninja powers, but they would be gotten from the same slot than the poisoner, I don't know what that means.
It would probably be worth looking at WW's reads to figure out why he was killed. He was suspected a lot and I don't think the tide completely turned on that front (at least there was the vocal majority left, including myself), but he is also a good player, good at avoiding getting lynched, and active. I think the most likely reason has to be that scum was afraid of him because of those things. I wouldn't expect it to be anything too obvious, but that generally his reads would have worried scum on the long run if he lived.
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My PPE vote: Eevee got eaten by quotes
I almost see the argument in scum qt: "i will probably go down D2 so feel free to bus me"
During the night, I didn't feel like I'd be going down at all! Why would I get lynched, for being wrong about WW (and maybe you)? There was a L-1 wagon full of guys wrong about WW.
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i think I should mention I am DAMA. But I think clearly
AMA: Why would town!LL be alive?
there is a concept called Wine In Front Of Me. It is called after something something about princess and means that scum wants to trick town into thinking wrong
Anyway, I'm surprised, but not a lot. I though scum would do something like this.
That doesn't answer the question, though. Did they think they could get you mislynched? I think that sounds far-fetched, and the longer you live, the more help we might get from your PR.*
*all assuming you are town, of course.
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LL, how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?
Absolutely love this argument.
Also I think LaLight should claim his target sooner rather than not sooner.
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Wow... that is a lot in a short period of time.
Main thing here so far - If LL is the JK.. I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night. That seems like a very strong role for them to want out of the game. Does anyone have any insight on LL's bid/# claims? I am not trying to promote a claim list here, but I am just on the fence because LL's actions at EOD seemed very Townie, but looking at it retrospectively seems very skummish. My thought is only if we can confirm LL was truthful or lying it might help with decisions?
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LL, how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?
Absolutely love this argument.
Also I think LaLight should claim his target sooner rather than not sooner.
I agree. Nobody is going to fake an action as scum just to have LL come out and say "Liar, you were blocked last night!" - whereas having him claim now could force him into claiming somebody who DID successfully take an action.
While it's not terribly likely, it's more so than the first situation.
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Maybe scum thought that LL could be helpful in getting a mislynch today (he was pretty vocal about suspecting me yesterday - maybe scum DID discuss me as a possible mislynch candidate), coupled with the pros of killing WW. I think early in the game, scum often tries to cause confusion with their kills.
If LL is town, at some point in the game scum will have to bite the bullet and killhim, since they don't even have a permanent roleblock (if LL is town he is the jailkeeper), so I'm definitely not interested in lynching him at this hour. I think that situation will resolve itself, especially because LL is giving us plenty to work with. Not that it wouldn't be helpful to confirm his claim, of course.
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Agreed that LL sound claim asap, anything to clear the fog just a little bit at this point.
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Maybe scum thought that LL could be helpful in getting a mislynch today (he was pretty vocal about suspecting me yesterday - maybe scum DID discuss me as a possible mislynch candidate), coupled with the pros of killing WW. I think early in the game, scum often tries to cause confusion with their kills.
If LL is town, at some point in the game scum will have to bite the bullet and killhim, since they don't even have a permanent roleblock (if LL is town he is the jailkeeper), so I'm definitely not interested in lynching him at this hour. I think that situation will resolve itself, especially because LL is giving us plenty to work with. Not that it wouldn't be helpful to confirm his claim, of course.
Why don't scum have a permanent Roleblocker?
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
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Maybe scum thought that LL could be helpful in getting a mislynch today (he was pretty vocal about suspecting me yesterday - maybe scum DID discuss me as a possible mislynch candidate), coupled with the pros of killing WW. I think early in the game, scum often tries to cause confusion with their kills.
If LL is town, at some point in the game scum will have to bite the bullet and killhim, since they don't even have a permanent roleblock (if LL is town he is the jailkeeper), so I'm definitely not interested in lynching him at this hour. I think that situation will resolve itself, especially because LL is giving us plenty to work with. Not that it wouldn't be helpful to confirm his claim, of course.
Why don't scum have a permanent Roleblocker?
Argh. I missed that there was one, only saw the 1-shot in JOAT and the jailkeeper. Disregard.
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
Not clear to me either! Just trying to figure out why WW was killed, why LL might not have been.
I think it's still unmentioned that this means that no one got IC from The Bamboo Forest, it would have been announced start of day 2.
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I agree with you, but could you spell it out for me?
My bid and draft leaves an extremely limited number of possible ways to end up at "bid 16, draft 6", most of which are incredibly unlikely at best.
How unlikely?
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
Not clear to me either! Just trying to figure out why WW was killed, why LL might not have been.
I think it's still unmentioned that this means that no one got IC from The Bamboo Forest, it would have been announced start of day 2.
... it’s Jimmmmmm
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
Not clear to me either! Just trying to figure out why WW was killed, why LL might not have been.
I think it's still unmentioned that this means that no one got IC from The Bamboo Forest, it would have been announced start of day 2.
Jimmmm has been announced as IC at the start of day 2 actually.
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vote: Teproc
this is a bad vote.
Vote: Gkrieg
Why?
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There was a lot of active posters, most of whom are easy to read. WW is not, so leaving him alive would make town think about his alignment. WW kill doesn't make sense unless they were SK!Hunting
Who is easy to read?
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Eevee must be drunk with LaLight
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
Not clear to me either! Just trying to figure out why WW was killed, why LL might not have been.
I think it's still unmentioned that this means that no one got IC from The Bamboo Forest, it would have been announced start of day 2.
Hahaha
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
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I wish
Eevee must be drunk with LaLight
I wish!
And here I was thinking that DatSwan made the most obvious softclaim of all time, I am funny.
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I'm getting the feeling I'm not helping the credibility of my analysis.
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Don't understand the softclaim buttttt I totally posted that in reference and it was not clear. It was to read "I cannot see a reason why skum would not of killed LL at night"
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Agree with Eevee's analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion EEvee has arrived to.
The part about how LaLight isn't a good lynch today but becomes a better lynch the longer he's alive.
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I read Eevee as townie right now actually.
vote: galz
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...I thought Jimm was dead...
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I read Eevee as townie right now actually.
vote: galz
this is still a bad vote
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...I thought Jimm was dead...
That's the joke. The "announcement" was his flip
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Jimm is alive. Mafia killed WW, there were no other kills.
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...I thought Jimm was dead...
That's the joke. The "announcement" was his flip
Now I'm not sure if e knows Jimm is alive....
PPE: yea that
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That's a townslip, if it's not faked. Mafia would know who they shot.
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...I thought Jimm was dead...
That's the joke. The "announcement" was his flip
Now I'm not sure if e knows Jimm is alive....
PPE: yea that
Haha. Yeah. I read that as jimmm died.
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I read Eevee as townie right now actually.
vote: galz
Aww, my first vote. I had never made it this far before.
But actually,
this is still a bad vote
Also, care to give an explanation?
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That's a townslip, if it's not faked. Mafia would know who they shot.
Nah, two NKs were expected here.
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Also, care to give an explanation?
Gkrieg apparently doesn't.
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Also, care to give an explanation?
Gkrieg apparently doesn't.
He did though. He was voting for me because he thought WW's death implicated me.
I assumed "bad vote" was because you thought this was a poor argument, but I guess not ?
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Also, care to give an explanation?
Gkrieg apparently doesn't.
He did though. He was voting for me because he thought WW's death implicated me.
I assumed "bad vote" was because you thought this was a poor argument, but I guess not ?
The vote in context (Galzria) is still without explanation.
You're a bad vote because you're townie and his reasoning seemed pretty weak.
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To be clear:
Gkrieg votes you, without reason --> me: "This is a bad vote".
Gkrieg supplies mediocre reason
Gkrieg then votes Galzria, without reason --> me: "this is still a bad vote"
I'm feeling relatively consistent here.
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To be clear:
Gkrieg votes you, without reason --> me: "This is a bad vote".
Gkrieg supplies mediocre reason
Gkrieg then votes Galzria, without reason --> me: "this is still a bad vote"
I'm feeling relatively consistent here.
I feel like it was a pretty good reason. I mean it clearly wasn't a scummy reason.
Galzria vote is mainly gut, and I need to reread more, but I remember finding him scummy before.
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It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I agree with you, but could you spell it out for me?
My bid and draft leaves an extremely limited number of possible ways to end up at "bid 16, draft 6", most of which are incredibly unlikely at best.
LL, can you please confirm your bid and draft place, checking against what it says in your QT?
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Teproc is the one who was talking about empty posts and post counts and stuff right? That is the only reason I can think of why you kill WW. I don't think you want to kill people that had a wagon on them D1, because they have the most information. We now know 2 people who had wagons on them are town, which can tell us something about the game.
Space, could we get the list of everyone that voted for WW or IDPTG please?
People who voted for WW: LaLight, Galzria, gkrieg13, Teproc, Eevee, O.
People who voted for IDP: LaLight, Galzria, 2.71828....., Teproc, Witherweaver, DatSwan, Eevee, Roadrunner7671, faust, O.
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6th and 16 means that there weren’t many people with a unique bid. And also that there was at least one other person that bid 16 right?
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That means that anyone bidding 16 and not one space away in draft order could tell LaLight is lying.
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Oh! It's 14, guys
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And i'm sixth. Sorry
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Oh! It's 14, guys
Haha. Nice
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Sorry I was sure i bid 16 because i wanted to bid 16. Don't know how i ended up with 14.
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That means that anyone bidding 16 and not one space away in draft order could tell LaLight is lying.
Lalight was lying. But.... does that mistake make him scum?
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Lol SA knows me as noone else
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Sorry, still got to sleep, 2am and head hurts
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Mhmm.
Huh.
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So we're lynching LL right?
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Case for lynching LL?
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That means that anyone bidding 16 and not one space away in draft order could tell LaLight is lying.
Lalight was lying. But.... does that mistake make him scum?
I felt his D1 was scummy even before the issue of his bid and draft order not matching up, so I'm leaning on it not being a good thing. There are several mechanisms I can think of for scum to lie deliberately (trying to out town PRs by co-claiming their numbers before "correcting" the mistake), plus more ways to make a mistake with the numbers as scum than as town, e.g. because his bid is made in a QT with other number bids present, or because he and his buddies have a plan to switch around some claims like faust and gkrieg did in the previous game, and he forgets exactly what bid number goes with his claimed draft position.
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Case for lynching LL?
If you 'lie' as town you die
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Case for lynching LL?
If you 'lie' as town you die
Town LL - claims to help town. Makes a mistake on the number. Does not correct it.
Mafia LL - claims to look towny when they going down. Purposefully messes up the number. Why? He could of just “not corrected it now” or could of claimed real number, or if he has skum brethren who are just Goon, could of swapped claims with them.
SK LL - claims to look towny when going down. If he dies it doesn’t matter if the info was true or not bc he is his own faction. More interestingly if he is SK he has knowledge of un used roles, which assumingly could play a part in his plan.
Now there is all of that... and then yeah it could of just been a whoopsie. However; this one is not sold that “the player that has NEVER” been mislynched blunders that hard....
I could be talked out if it, but for now vote: LL
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I am in fact alive. And Town.
Nothing LL has said today has made me think he is more Towny, or that Eevee is more scummy.
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I am in fact alive. And Town.
Nothing LL has said today has made me think he is more Towny, or that Eevee is more scummy.
So who do you want to lynch?
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Vote: LL
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I am in fact alive. And Town.
Nothing LL has said today has made me think he is more Towny, or that Eevee is more scummy.
So who do you want to lynch?
At this stage LL, Qvist and Galz are at the top of my list, in some order.
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I am in fact alive. And Town.
Nothing LL has said today has made me think he is more Towny, or that Eevee is more scummy.
So who do you want to lynch?
At this stage LL, Qvist and Galz are at the top of my list, in some order.
Care to elaborate? Note that Galz was the one that twice (first yesterday, and then today) called LL out and forced the retraction.
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Care to elaborate? Note that Galz was the one that twice (first yesterday, and then today) called LL out and forced the retraction.
Not yet. At some point in the next couple of days I'll re-read all three players mentioned.
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Care to elaborate? Note that Galz was the one that twice (first yesterday, and then today) called LL out and forced the retraction.
Not yet. At some point in the next couple of days I'll re-read all three players mentioned.
Coolio
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
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I guess what gets me is that yes, the above could be true. And if it is, that really sucks. But if I were in LL's shoes here I would've been arguing with me (Galzria) about the statement regarding the unlikeliness of his claim being true. But he didn't. He completely ignored my statement yesterday and then again today. And now it turns out it WASN'T true. Further, if I were in LL's shoes, I would've woken up today trying to reason why I was alive. But that barely seemed to phase him. He almost seemed surprised to be asked about it. Now, there are a lot of reasons he could've been left alive: {scum knew his claim was false} - He didn't seem to care to check this. {He was blocked at night} - never appeared to cross his mind. He's assumed at every point that his jail was successful. {Redirector} - Also never considered, despite plenty of talk D1. {WIFOM} - The easy argument that serves no helpful purpose.
There are just so many things wrong with this that I have a hard time reconciling these things coming from town!LL.
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
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Oh! It's 14, guys
I'm not sure I get the scum narrative for claiming a wrong number. The position would still have to be one that scum knows is free, so either his or the one of a scum partner. I am quite sure that this was a genuine mistiake.
On the other hand, town just picks a number and that's it, whereas for scum there is probably some discussion to be had. Messing up the claim is easier there. Messing up the claim of a scum partner is even easier as there are two potential origins - the scum partner has to announce his bid in the scum QT, and LaLight has to copy it from there.
Vote: LaLight for now. I believe we should here about tonight's target soon given the circumstances.
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Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
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Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
Why?
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Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
Why?
I scumread him and I thought that if he is town, there is non-zero probability he will be a scum kill, so this served 2 purposes
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Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
Why?
I scumread him and I thought that if he is town, there is non-zero probability he will be a scum kill, so this served 2 purposes
And you are voting Eevee instead why?
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Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
Why?
I scumread him and I thought that if he is town, there is non-zero probability he will be a scum kill, so this served 2 purposes
And you are voting Eevee instead why?
I wanted to check how many people will jump on Eevee instantly because they would believe I targeted him. Scum knows alignments.
vote: gkrieg
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
I suppose. But the "LaLight is alive means he must be scum" argument was nonsense to begin with.
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
I suppose. But the "LaLight is alive means he must be scum" argument was nonsense to begin with.
Is this the thread where we solidly debunk theories that nobody ever proposed?
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
I suppose. But the "LaLight is alive means he must be scum" argument was nonsense to begin with.
Not entirely, but it's hardly the primary basis for an argument.
It's not entirely nonsense because in two worlds, one where LL is scum and the other where he is town, D2 dawns with him dead far more often when he's town - and thus his survival is more likely if he's scum than town.
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Regardless, it's still absolutely a question worth asking and contemplating.
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After some more thinking, I believe Vote: gkrieg is where I want to be.
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
This logic is moderately sound, but why are you trying to create a defense for LL that he did not create himself?
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Point in LL's favor:
If town, it's entirely possible mafia knew he had messed up his claim based on their own positions, and figured him for a dead man walking once any claiming exercise began. The chances of Town!LL messing with them at this point in the game would be slim enough to risk not killing him.
I don't know that this is in his favor. Yes, if LaLight is town, scum could have a good reason to keep him alive. BUt if he is scum, they of course have a reason to keep him alive as well, so him being alive is not indicative of anything.
It's "in his favor" in that it's a better explanation than the one he gave.
This logic is moderately sound, but why are you trying to create a defense for LL that he did not create himself?
Because I always try to look at things from both sides so as to avoid tunnel vision.
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@Galzria, i saw your post about low probability. I didn't want to engage in the conversation that would inevitably make some people claim/softclaim against their will and therefore thought the discussion is useless. "Not probably? Well, that happened, no point ro discuss further". And especially I want to say I really didn't think i made a mistake unless Space told me to doublecheck
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You don't see how crashing your own credibility as a town PR could be harmful?
Anyways I think Gkrieg might be a more likely scum than LL. But Gkrieg's scum case is a SM scum case, and LL scum case can be pretty solidly mafia. Do we want to prioritize trying to find mafia or the SM?
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You don't see how crashing your own credibility as a town PR could be harmful?
Anyways I think Gkrieg might be a more likely scum than LL. But Gkrieg's scum case is a SM scum case, and LL scum case can be pretty solidly mafia. Do we want to prioritize trying to find mafia or the SM?
As far as I don't want to set myself up, of course we should prioritize mafia. That's not me though. gkrieg has more chance to be SK based on night actions than me
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You're right. Claiming and getting caught in a lie is totally not anti-town.We should all lie all the time! Yay! Townie things!
.....
No, I didn't jump and claim 16 with draft 1. I instantly jumped and said "Hey, LL's claim is completely unlikely", and refused to switch my vote from you while everyone else took it at face value and lynched town IDPTG instead. And guess what? YOU WERE LYING.
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Vote: LL
Don't see this changing.
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You're right. Claiming and getting caught in a lie is totally not anti-town.We should all lie all the time! Yay! Townie things!
.....
No, I didn't jump and claim 16 with draft 1. I instantly jumped and said "Hey, LL's claim is completely unlikely", and refused to switch my vote from you while everyone else took it at face value and lynched town IDPTG instead. And guess what? YOU WERE LYING.
Calm down. I have meant this doesn't put US in a bad situation. Me? Sure. But all I want now is for you to believe I have made an honest mistake
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Vote: LL
Don't see this changing.
If you think I lied on purpose, what that purpose might be?
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You don't see how crashing your own credibility as a town PR could be harmful?
Anyways I think Gkrieg might be a more likely scum than LL. But Gkrieg's scum case is a SM scum case, and LL scum case can be pretty solidly mafia. Do we want to prioritize trying to find mafia or the SM?
If LL is Mafia his JK on Gkrieg wouldn't have been blocked, meaning yes, it's entirely possible Gkrieg is SK.
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My lynch is a lynch of a disastrous town. Scum lynch is still better
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Vote: LL
Don't see this changing.
If you think I lied on purpose, what that purpose might be?
To attempt to protect a scum buddies position and draft.
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You're right. Claiming and getting caught in a lie is totally not anti-town.We should all lie all the time! Yay! Townie things!
.....
No, I didn't jump and claim 16 with draft 1. I instantly jumped and said "Hey, LL's claim is completely unlikely", and refused to switch my vote from you while everyone else took it at face value and lynched town IDPTG instead. And guess what? YOU WERE LYING.
Calm down. I have meant this doesn't put US in a bad situation. Me? Sure. But all I want now is for you to believe I have made an honest mistake
I do believe you made a mistake. A mistake flipping claims with a scum buddy.
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Vote: LL
Don't see this changing.
If you think I lied on purpose, what that purpose might be?
To attempt to protect a scum buddies position and draft.
I wouldn't think of that
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LL, this sort of mistake, if you're town, puts us in a really bad situation.
Not really? I mean no one jumped put and said "hey I bid 16 and I am #1, (took the alignment cop by the way)"
You're right. Claiming and getting caught in a lie is totally not anti-town.We should all lie all the time! Yay! Townie things!
.....
No, I didn't jump and claim 16 with draft 1. I instantly jumped and said "Hey, LL's claim is completely unlikely", and refused to switch my vote from you while everyone else took it at face value and lynched town IDPTG instead. And guess what? YOU WERE LYING.
Calm down. I have meant this doesn't put US in a bad situation. Me? Sure. But all I want now is for you to believe I have made an honest mistake
I do believe you made a mistake. A mistake flipping claims with a scum buddy.
There is something more. Before I bid I thought lost numbers are 14/15, and wanted to bid 16. Then I doublechecked, saw that 15 and 16 are actual numbers, so I bid 14
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Believe it or not
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Why weren't you looking for reasons to still be alive? Offering WIFOM is the least debatable or arguable reason you could choose. Watcher, Redirector, Roleblocker, etc are all reasons scum wouldn't kill town you. But if you're scum you aren't worried about those things. So why weren't you killed last night? WIFOM.
Why do you think you jailed successfully? Because there was no SK kill? Mafia choose not to kill you. You don't think you could've been blocked? There are plenty of ways for kills to fail. Redirect, Doctor, Bullet Proof, Protector, JOaT. But you seem certain you jailed successfully. But if you're Mafia then knowing you blocked successfully makes sense, doesn't it? Because the chances that YOU were blocked are almost non existent then.
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Why weren't you looking for reasons to still be alive? Offering WIFOM is the least debatable or arguable reason you could choose. Watcher, Redirector, Roleblocker, etc are all reasons scum wouldn't kill town you. But if you're scum you aren't worried about those things. So why weren't you killed last night? WIFOM.
Why do you think you jailed successfully? Because there was no SK kill? Mafia choose not to kill you. You don't think you could've been blocked? There are plenty of ways for kills to fail. Redirect, Doctor, Bullet Proof, Protector, JOaT. But you seem certain you jailed successfully. But if you're Mafia then knowing you blocked successfully makes sense, doesn't it? Because the chances that YOU were blocked are almost non existent then.
I'll be sincere: I am not looking why I wasn't killed because it doesn't matter a slightest bit. Any reason. When there will be a time when everyone will massclaim, that would explain it, but now it is pointless.
I am not 100% certain I jailed successfully. I didn't come into the day with words "Aha! I jailed gkrieg, he's 100% SK let's lynch him. No. I am voting for him now because of my read of him more than my Jailkeeping.
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
But you jailed him. And there was no SK kill. Why would he be Mafia?
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
But you jailed him. And there was no SK kill. Why would he be Mafia?
Because I think he is scummy, do you hear me? Maybe SK wanted to kill gkrieg and I accidentally saved him
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
But you jailed him. And there was no SK kill. Why would he be Mafia?
Because I think he is scummy, do you hear me? Maybe SK wanted to kill gkrieg and I accidentally saved him
Yes, ok.
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
But you jailed him. And there was no SK kill. Why would he be Mafia?
Because I think he is scummy, do you hear me? Maybe SK wanted to kill gkrieg and I accidentally saved him
Yes, ok.
You believe me or don't see the point in arguing further?
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And you think Eevee is his partner in crime here?
Due to reads, yes. I am not sure if gkrieg is Mafia or SK, that's the point. But I think that if he is mafia, Eevee is his partner
But you jailed him. And there was no SK kill. Why would he be Mafia?
Because I think he is scummy, do you hear me? Maybe SK wanted to kill gkrieg and I accidentally saved him
Yes, ok.
You believe me or don't see the point in arguing further?
I don't believe your logic all follows in that I don't think what you're suggesting is all that likely. But that doesn't mean it's impossible, so yes, I acknowledge your statement.
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I'll unvote for now. I do believe LL is telling the truth now... not sure yet what it means for his alignment.
LaLight, why did you target gkrieg ?
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I'll unvote for now. I do believe LL is telling the truth now... not sure yet what it means for his alignment.
LaLight, why did you target gkrieg ?
Morning!
Gkrieg was my target.
Why?
I scumread him and I thought that if he is town, there is non-zero probability he will be a scum kill, so this served 2 purposes
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Okie Dokie - This is what I have when re reading LL looking for possible partners. I eliminated all partners other than the one that stood out the most, so don't read out of context. In order:
Scummy on LaLight for now...
Wagon starts on LL and GK states but does not vote.
I think vote: gkrieg is where I want to be
Shortly after LL votes GK. No real reason given.
vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
Classic defense there. I'm saying that you are doing an awful lot of role fishing, and I also think you are just outright wrong about the 2-shot redirector being better for scum than it is for town. If used right, you can actually get scum to kill themselves!!!!
To both their credit - teaming up on the idea of not having the 2-Shot RD claim.
What I also think is that here's 17 people, so scum lurks. That's very easy, to lurk here. Note that I don't though, not like in M100.
LL pointing out differences to skum!LL in a previous game.
People as they are dying should consider claiming position and bid though.
GK making a good point (even though I read it incorrectly)
**There is a long break here for like 200 posts where neither of them are active. However, LL stated he was dealing with IRL stuff and GK had one big quote novel of legit info in there. I want to say "convenient timing", but also.. I mean IRL stuff does happen so prob no need to read to far into it.**
From this point forward it is 6 hours to EOD. I am not going to sit here and quote a novel, a lot was said in a small amount of time. But given the interactions I was re-reading this is what stood out to me:
okay, let's vote: WW gkrieg isn't happening, WW is scummy, self-preservation
Eevee switches to LL right before this bringing both LL and GK to 4 a piece. Now LL switches onto the newly forming WW wagon. Right after there is another switch to Quivst (or whatever his name doesn't come up enough for me to bother to spell it correctly). Irrelevant. Point for this post is switch off of GK.
vote: RR by the way. I had no idea vote count looks like this
RR wagon really ramps. An extra vote goes to LL, and then LL switches to the RR wagon to even them both out at 5 each
**Then there is a whole hell of a lot of stuff. Including LL forgetting what his number was and claiming it incorrectly**
Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
I'm cool with LaLight claiming now.
PPE 2
I won't claim until I am at L-1 with Intent to hammer :P
Then he says this. Which I just do not get from a town perspective. I mean I get if he ACTUALLY messed up his claim and is ACTUALLY town JK then he did not want to target himself, but it also looks like a good effort to come off as towny saying something that is not expected of you. I mean, if you are town would you not think "I will just wait until someone says they want to hammer" and then release the info anyways?
I won't switch. LaLight or no lynch!
This is exactly what I would do if I was skum in a bus situation (or Mother/SM in a bus situation).
Alllllllll that being said.... I still do not get real benefit of LL admitting to the mess up. If he was skum and he was switching then he would have that knowledge of his claim partner and would of gone over it at night and could of just stuck with the game plan. I am not trying to make a skum team at this point, just a skum pool... and right now, all skum roles inclusive, LL/GK seems like the best option I can discover upon reading.
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I would also like to include the most recent post in my reasoning please :)
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Looking for partners before people flip is not a good idea before lylo.
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LL, did you consider targeting iguana ?
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LL, did you consider targeting iguana ?
No, why?
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LL, did you consider targeting iguana ?
No, why?
If scum he has a very powerful role (one that he is incentivized to not use N1, granted, but still), and if town he's very likely to be a NK target. It's what I thought you would do.
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LL, did you consider targeting iguana ?
No, why?
If scum he has a very powerful role (one that he is incentivized to not use N1, granted, but still), and if town he's very likely to be a NK target. It's what I thought you would do.
If he's scum and used his role though everyone told im not to, we'll lynch him. If he's town, I don't see why he is likely NK target, especially given that he won't use his power. hy would scum be afraid of poisoner? It's kind of a negative utility for town.
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Ok.
You mentioned that you thought gkrieg was both likely to do the kill as scum and likely to be NKed as town. Since you're voting for him, you're obviously going for the former explanation. Why ?
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LL, did you consider targeting iguana ?
No, why?
If scum he has a very powerful role (one that he is incentivized to not use N1, granted, but still), and if town he's very likely to be a NK target. It's what I thought you would do.
If he's scum and used his role though everyone told im not to, we'll lynch him. If he's town, I don't see why he is likely NK target, especially given that he won't use his power. hy would scum be afraid of poisoner? It's kind of a negative utility for town.
If I were town Poisoner and I believed in Vigilantes I would have shot N1. I think a potential death N2 from poison tells us nothing about iguanas alignment
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Ok.
You mentioned that you thought gkrieg was both likely to do the kill as scum and likely to be NKed as town. Since you're voting for him, you're obviously going for the former explanation. Why ?
As I have already stated, reads.
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@Galz. I think a poison death N2 means iguana is scum and we should lynch him, and I think you're scummy for pushing a narrative implying the contrary since D1. So there.
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@Galz. I think a poison death N2 means iguana is scum and we should lynch him, and I think you're scummy for pushing a narrative implying the contrary since D1. So there.
That's neat
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@Galz. I think a poison death N2 means iguana is scum and we should lynch him, and I think you're scummy for pushing a narrative implying the contrary since D1. So there.
+1
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Didn't Iguana say he wasn't going to use his ability..?
Lynch all liars, people. It's not universal but it gets you very far.
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Didn't Iguana say he wasn't going to use his ability..?
Lynch all liars, people. It's not universal but it gets you very far.
Except if you're LL apparently
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Didn't Iguana say he wasn't going to use his ability..?
Lynch all liars, people. It's not universal but it gets you very far.
Except if you're LL apparently
Well I am voting for LL...
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Didn't Iguana say he wasn't going to use his ability..?
Lynch all liars, people. It's not universal but it gets you very far.
Except if you're LL apparently
Well I am voting for LL...
Sorry, the response was to you, not directed at you.
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Didn't Iguana say he wasn't going to use his ability..?
Lynch all liars, people. It's not universal but it gets you very far.
Except if you're LL apparently
Well I am voting for LL...
Sorry, the response was to you, not directed at you.
yea we're in agreement then
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Vote count?
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Since I last read the thread I feel like all scumhunting that doesn't involve LL is some shape or form has ceased. This feels a little dangerous.
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Since I last read the thread I feel like all scumhunting that doesn't involve LL is some shape or form has ceased. This feels a little dangerous.
If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
In other words: what are your non-LL related scumhunting thoughts ?
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No, it's definitely partially my fault. But I'm not sure what to think. The LaLight business has made everyone talk about it, and I'm not sure anything that has to do it is alignment indicative anymore. I don't have non-LaLight thoughts based on reads, all I'd be able to formulate Is stuff based on wagons, which feels like a waste. So I won't beat em, I'll join em
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Do join then: what do you think about LaLight et al. ?
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Fly-by Space Count, since work is a bit too busy for me to do more than skim along with things today, and I'm out tonight:
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (3): DatSwan, O, Galzria
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Not Voting (9): 2.71828....., Archetype, Eevee, Qvist, Roadrunner7671, SpaceAnemone, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, Teproc
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Okay, I really should also vote: LL before I sink back into the world of work deadlines...
I'm feeling relatively unconvinced by the argument against gkrieg, until we know whether or not we can trust the person accusing him. Surely the logical thing is to wait for LL to flip before deciding whether to lynch someone on his say-so?
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Dharma quote of the day: we are the causes of our own suffering. Thank you. Namaste.
Vote Count 2.2
LaLight (4): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Not Voting (8.): Jimmmmm, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, 2.71828, Eevee, Teproc
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
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Okay, I really should also vote: LL before I sink back into the world of work deadlines...
I'm feeling relatively unconvinced by the argument against gkrieg, until we know whether or not we can trust the person accusing him. Surely the logical thing is to wait for LL to flip before deciding whether to lynch someone on his say-so?
Do you think LaLight is lying about his target, or his role?
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Okay, I really should also vote: LL before I sink back into the world of work deadlines...
I'm feeling relatively unconvinced by the argument against gkrieg, until we know whether or not we can trust the person accusing him. Surely the logical thing is to wait for LL to flip before deciding whether to lynch someone on his say-so?
Do you think LaLight is lying about his target, or his role?
Well, yes. My concern is that he's lying about one or other of those. Mostly that he's lying about his faction!
To clarify, it's a balance-of-probabilities issue: I don't have a clear idea of what scenario has occurred (there's way too little info in the game for that), but there are several possible configurations, each with relatively low probabilities that still sum up to something worrying overall.
Look at this a different way: if LL flips others-aligned, are you more or less likely to want to lynch gkrieg? What if he flips SM-aligned? If your answer to those would be anything other than a perfect "it makes no difference whatsoever", then why not lynch the person who's being scummy, first, then have that extra information for further scum-hunting?
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Look at this a different way: if LL flips others-aligned, are you more or less likely to want to lynch gkrieg? What if he flips SM-aligned? If your answer to those would be anything other than a perfect "it makes no difference whatsoever", then why not lynch the person who's being scummy, first, then have that extra information for further scum-hunting?
Well yes, that would be true, if it were the case that LaLight is scummy and gkrieg is not.
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Look at this a different way: if LL flips others-aligned, are you more or less likely to want to lynch gkrieg? What if he flips SM-aligned? If your answer to those would be anything other than a perfect "it makes no difference whatsoever", then why not lynch the person who's being scummy, first, then have that extra information for further scum-hunting?
Well yes, that would be true, if it were the case that LaLight is scummy and gkrieg is not.
And it's not even true, as exemplified by this slightly different example:
A has a result on B. It says B is 100% scum.
A has the following probabilities: 50% likely to be town, 25% likely to be scum telling the truth, 25% likely to be lying scum.
Then, still B is scum in 75% of all cases and thus should be lynched before A.
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Vote: LL
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Vote: LL
I think you have said that the longer I am alive the better lynch target I am. Why change?
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We have received a message from Ann Arbor: Effective immediately, Chairs has replaced Archetype. He has just arrived on the submarine, we think.
Namaste.
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oh, chairs is here, I can't say I am Town any more :(
anyway welcome! :)
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Dharma quote of the day: we are the causes of our own suffering. Thank you. Namaste.
Vote Count 2.2
LaLight (4): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Not Voting (8.): Jimmmmm, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, 2.71828, Eevee, Teproc
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
13 people alive should be 7 to lynch.
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Dharma quote of the day: we are the causes of our own suffering. Thank you. Namaste.
Vote Count 2.2
LaLight (4): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Not Voting (8.): Jimmmmm, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, 2.71828, Eevee, Teproc
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
13 people alive should be 7 to lynch.
good thing it's 15 then
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LaLight targeting me means that I was either the target of SM or someone else stopped him.
vote: LaLight. L-1
I’m on my phone right now so it is hard to respond to multiple posts but I didn’t see any direct questions for me when I was reading this morning. Anyone got anything?
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Dharma quote of the day: we are the causes of our own suffering. Thank you. Namaste.
Vote Count 2.2
LaLight (4): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Not Voting (8.): Jimmmmm, iguaniguana, Qvist, Archetype, RoadRunner7671, 2.71828, Eevee, Teproc
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, October 4 at 2:00 PM.
13 people alive should be 7 to lynch.
good thing it's 15 then
Oh my own name not being bold threw me off. You’re right.
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So not L-1 on LaLight.
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LaLight targeting me means that I was either the target of SM or someone else stopped him.
vote: LaLight. L-1
I’m on my phone right now so it is hard to respond to multiple posts but I didn’t see any direct questions for me when I was reading this morning. Anyone got anything?
why does it mean it? I mean SM could target you and I could save your life!
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LaLight targeting me means that I was either the target of SM or someone else stopped him.
vote: LaLight. L-1
I’m on my phone right now so it is hard to respond to multiple posts but I didn’t see any direct questions for me when I was reading this morning. Anyone got anything?
You think LaLight stopped a kill on you and you still want to lynch him?
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LaLight targeting me means that I was either the target of SM or someone else stopped him.
vote: LaLight. L-1
I’m on my phone right now so it is hard to respond to multiple posts but I didn’t see any direct questions for me when I was reading this morning. Anyone got anything?
You think LaLight stopped a kill on you and you still want to lynch him?
He stopped a SM kill, which I guess is less likely that he is mafia. Because he would’ve targeted a partner.
unvote
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
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The thing is, my reads have been on point this game, and I still very much read LaLight as scum.
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The thing is, my reads have been on point this game, and I still very much read LaLight as scum.
So you're my secret partner then?
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
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Vote: LL
I think you have said that the longer I am alive the better lynch target I am. Why change?
So much not adding up about your behavior, now including the bid and draft order you claimed. If it flails like a fish, smells like fish and swims like a fish, it's probably a fish, you know.
I must admit that keeping up posting like LL has and never giving up feels towny, but all the other evidence is pointing to the contrary.
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The thing is, my reads have been on point this game, and I still very much read LaLight as scum.
It's not that great of an accomplishment if no scum have flipped yet.
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Vote: LL
I think you have said that the longer I am alive the better lynch target I am. Why change?
So much not adding up about your behavior, now including the bid and draft order you claimed. If it flails like a fish, smells like fish and swims like a fish, it's probably a fish, you know.
I must admit that keeping up posting like LL has and never giving up feels towny, but all the other evidence is pointing to the contrary.
Exactly! Look at other games where I am scum and someone correctly reads me and you'll see I behave really differently
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Why do people sometimes vote for Galz without explanation? Oo
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The thing is, my reads have been on point this game, and I still very much read LaLight as scum.
It's not that great of an accomplishment if no scum have flipped yet.
That is not my fault.
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
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Been struggling to keep up. Lalight was scummy yesterday, so I think I support his lynch. But I need a chance to reread and analyze.
Rushing in to lynch him before we can fully unpack the day seems really bad. Let's not do that.
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
That's not what I've said.
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Okay hello everybody. I thought as well Jimmmmm died, that is why I thought this was a terrible result after these 3 deaths.
I just now had possibility to read through and one thing striked me.
LL claims that he thought Lost numbers were 14 and 15 and therefore named 16, but changed to 14 after finding out it is actually 15 and 16.
I mean not sure if I am the only one finding this odd. But if I would have noticed this mistake I would have named 17 then, the change of pattern is weird.
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Okay hello everybody. I thought as well Jimmmmm died, that is why I thought this was a terrible result after these 3 deaths.
I just now had possibility to read through and one thing striked me.
LL claims that he thought Lost numbers were 14 and 15 and therefore named 16, but changed to 14 after finding out it is actually 15 and 16.
I mean not sure if I am the only one finding this odd. But if I would have noticed this mistake I would have named 17 then, the change of pattern is weird.
I noticed but didn't comment
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
That's not what I've said.
No but that's what it amounts too. You're casting doubt on the consensus that he shouldn't shoot while maintaining that you're personally against it. The only purpose that serves is to set up a later lynch of iguana, and I don't see why you'd do that as town.
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Okay hello everybody. I thought as well Jimmmmm died, that is why I thought this was a terrible result after these 3 deaths.
I just now had possibility to read through and one thing striked me.
LL claims that he thought Lost numbers were 14 and 15 and therefore named 16, but changed to 14 after finding out it is actually 15 and 16.
I mean not sure if I am the only one finding this odd. But if I would have noticed this mistake I would have named 17 then, the change of pattern is weird.
that's just how it worked, I have no explanation for this, other than I was in a rush
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
That's not what I've said.
No... but what you are suggesting now does not line up with what you said either. are you stating as town!poisoner you would fire N1 simply in hopes of landing a hit on a target such as vigilante? This shortens the game for town most the time and leads to more deaths with less info overall.... which seems not like you
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
That's not what I've said.
No... but what you are suggesting now does not line up with what you said either. are you stating as town!poisoner you would fire N1 simply in hopes of landing a hit on a target such as vigilante? This shortens the game for town most the time and leads to more deaths with less info overall.... which seems not like you
No. What I've said, and Teproc is either unable to understand or is choosing to misunderstand intentionally is that:
While I'm personally against Vig's (and the idea of a Poisoner) shooting, I completely disagree with the idea that they are in any way functionally different for town (scum, yes). And as I'm in the minority on this (despite being right both mathematically and practically as has been demonstrated again and again), I simply would not find it alignment indicative if Iguana, as town, choose to shoot. He's essentially a Vig in that case - and while I disagree with the notion of him shooting, the act in and of itself is not scummy.
What IS scummy are people trying to shut down his choice and call for an auto lynch of a claimed Vig who chooses to shoot.
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I think the trade-off is worth it if it forces scum to not use such a powerful role for them, even if we lose some utility when the poisoner is town.
That would change of course if Iguana were to be confirmed as town, but when the poisoner's alignment is unknown, it seems like a good compromise.
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I think the trade-off is worth it if it forces scum to not use such a powerful role for them, even if we lose some utility when the poisoner is town.
That would change of course if Iguana were to be confirmed as town, but when the poisoner's alignment is unknown, it seems like a good compromise.
Yes. And again, I'm not arguing he should shoot. He absolutely shouldn't. But he shouldn't as town or scum (well, you know). But the choice to do so, if made, does not simply make him scum.
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I don't like the LL lynch, I think.
vote: Galz
So you think I killed WW?
I think your faction did. Why is that a relevant enquiry ?
@LL: As I mentioned, I think the way he's been saying "I'm totally against vigs shooting, but you know, I'd expect iguana to use his power and wouldn't we be in a pickle then ?" is scummy, and I generally have not been getting anything townie from him all game.
That's not what I've said.
No... but what you are suggesting now does not line up with what you said either. are you stating as town!poisoner you would fire N1 simply in hopes of landing a hit on a target such as vigilante? This shortens the game for town most the time and leads to more deaths with less info overall.... which seems not like you
No. What I've said, and Teproc is either unable to understand or is choosing to misunderstand intentionally is that:
While I'm personally against Vig's (and the idea of a Poisoner) shooting, I completely disagree with the idea that they are in any way functionally different for town (scum, yes). And as I'm in the minority on this (despite being right both mathematically and practically as has been demonstrated again and again), I simply would not find it alignment indicative if Iguana, as town, choose to shoot. He's essentially a Vig in that case - and while I disagree with the notion of him shooting, the act in and of itself is not scummy.
What IS scummy are people trying to shut down his choice and call for an auto lynch of a claimed Vig who chooses to shoot.
I think we are having a clarification issue on what the word skummy means. I mean that taking actions that work against town are skummy. Using pos N1 in the context of the game at this point is skummy. Based not only on likelihood of narrowing down town, but also for purposes of mis direction and keeping info from being released. Skummy.
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PPE 3
Nvm then I type to slow.
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Vote: LL
I think you have said that the longer I am alive the better lynch target I am. Why change?
So much not adding up about your behavior, now including the bid and draft order you claimed. If it flails like a fish, smells like fish and swims like a fish, it's probably a fish, you know.
I must admit that keeping up posting like LL has and never giving up feels towny, but all the other evidence is pointing to the contrary.
Exactly! Look at other games where I am scum and someone correctly reads me and you'll see I behave really differently
Other people correctly read you in M100 -- I didn't -- and your behavior also to never give up.
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1) really don't like a quick lynch
2) really don't like a LaLight lynch right now
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1) really don't like a quick lynch
2) really don't like a LaLight lynch right now
who would you prefer to a known "liar"?
the only other remotely reasonable answer I see is Gkrieg.
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1) really don't like a quick lynch
2) really don't like a LaLight lynch right now
who would you prefer to a known "liar"?
the only other remotely reasonable answer I see is Gkrieg.
I am sympathetic to people making mistakes. I find that mistakes like that (reading your pm wrong, typing the wrong number, etc) come from town.
I am not opposed to gkrieg, but I don't have strong opinions right now. I am mostly opposed to lynching too quickly
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I think the trade-off is worth it if it forces scum to not use such a powerful role for them, even if we lose some utility when the poisoner is town.
That would change of course if Iguana were to be confirmed as town, but when the poisoner's alignment is unknown, it seems like a good compromise.
Yes. And again, I'm not arguing he should shoot. He absolutely shouldn't. But he shouldn't as town or scum (well, you know). But the choice to do so, if made, does not simply make him scum.
Right, so all you're doing is undermining the consensus that iguana should not shoot. While acting as if you didn't want him to shoot. But really you do, since otherwise why would you bother with this ? I'm not miszunderstanding you at all, you're just scum.
The idea of the poisoner claim was to negate the use of the role for scum. What you're arguing for goes against that. Why ? What is the point of your line of reasoning if you're town ? I don't see any.
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I think the trade-off is worth it if it forces scum to not use such a powerful role for them, even if we lose some utility when the poisoner is town.
That would change of course if Iguana were to be confirmed as town, but when the poisoner's alignment is unknown, it seems like a good compromise.
Yes. And again, I'm not arguing he should shoot. He absolutely shouldn't. But he shouldn't as town or scum (well, you know). But the choice to do so, if made, does not simply make him scum.
Right, so all you're doing is undermining the consensus that iguana should not shoot. While acting as if you didn't want him to shoot. But really you do, since otherwise why would you bother with this ? I'm not miszunderstanding you at all, you're just scum.
The idea of the poisoner claim was to negate the use of the role for scum. What you're arguing for goes against that. Why ? What is the point of your line of reasoning if you're town ? I don't see any.
Then you're either blind or scum.
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I think the trade-off is worth it if it forces scum to not use such a powerful role for them, even if we lose some utility when the poisoner is town.
That would change of course if Iguana were to be confirmed as town, but when the poisoner's alignment is unknown, it seems like a good compromise.
Yes. And again, I'm not arguing he should shoot. He absolutely shouldn't. But he shouldn't as town or scum (well, you know). But the choice to do so, if made, does not simply make him scum.
Right, so all you're doing is undermining the consensus that iguana should not shoot. While acting as if you didn't want him to shoot. But really you do, since otherwise why would you bother with this ? I'm not miszunderstanding you at all, you're just scum.
The idea of the poisoner claim was to negate the use of the role for scum. What you're arguing for goes against that. Why ? What is the point of your line of reasoning if you're town ? I don't see any.
Then you're either blind or scum.
Fortunately for you, I'm leaning towards the former right now.
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Can you enlighten us? It seems I'm blind.
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Can you enlighten us? It seems I'm blind.
I already have? What do you want to know that I haven't explained?
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we have a confirmed "liar" claiming to have with high likelihood blocked the SK kill and you guys won't stop flooding us with poisoner theory which isn't even applicable yet.
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Sorry, but Teproc keeps attacking me over my statements. I'll defend myself every time. Especially when he's accusing me of doing literally the exact opposite of what my statements and view have been since the very first post I made on the subject D1.
You're absolutely right that it's completely irrelevant at this time as iguana may very well have chosen not to shoot. At the end of the day all my posts on the subject amount to is that I will NOT rush to judgement and snap lynch him if he happened to chose to shoot - and I think anybody claiming he should be auto-lynched for such action is EXTREMELY scummy. If Iguana is town, it's his choice. Not mine, not Teproc's, not Eevee's. It's Iguana's.
That said, I've compiled a small little list on the topic of LL:
For LL Lynch:
O, Galz, Space, Eevee, Datswan, RR? LL?
Against LL Lynch:
Teproc, e, faust, LL, Gkrieg
Unknown:
Chairs, Qvist, Jimmm
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1) really don't like a quick lynch
2) really don't like a LaLight lynch right now
who would you prefer to a known "liar"?
the only other remotely reasonable answer I see is Gkrieg.
Why would you lynch me? I have a 50/50 chance of being SM/killed by SM.
But, there is also the chance that LaLight didn't really target me, and that he really targeted a scum buddy who was shot by SM, but then claimed to target me. I think this is a definite possibility, considering how he claimed me as his target, and how he is reacting towards me.
PPE I'm definitely not against the LaLight lynch, I'm just trying to work through all the information.
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Sorry, but Teproc keeps attacking me over my statements. I'll defend myself every time. Especially when he's accusing me of doing literally the exact opposite of what my statements and view have been since the very first post I made on the subject D1.
You're absolutely right that it's completely irrelevant at this time as iguana may very well have chosen not to shoot. At the end of the day all my posts on the subject amount to is that I will NOT rush to judgement and snap lynch him if he happened to chose to shoot - and I think anybody claiming he should be auto-lynched for such action is EXTREMELY scummy. If Iguana is town, it's his choice. Not mine, not Teproc's, not Eevee's. It's Iguana's.
That said, I've compiled a small little list on the topic of LL:
For LL Lynch:
O, Galz, Space, Eevee, Datswan, RR? II?
Against LL Lynch:
Teproc, e, faust, LL, Gkrieg
Unknown:
Chairs, Qvist, Jimmm
Fixed above. Top "LL" was supposed to be "II" for Iguana
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Actually, heck with this:
SM, where ever you are: I'm a Candidate. I will not expose more of us than just myself. But I will say that I was investigated last night by our Leader and confirmed to be Not SM.
The SM is an even-night commuter. If he wishes to kill me tonight he can do so by choosing not to commute. He'll also need to deal with the possibility of being Watched, Blocked, or me being Doctored/Protected.
Why claim this? Because if I'm Mafia, I've just outed myself to the SM. Doubt that's particularly ideal for my "supposed" team.
There are others in this thread who CAN (but should NOT) confirm all of the above. At no point in time will I claim my Bid/Draft, the other Candidates already know my Bid number and in a position of mass claim you can work out my draft number.
Can we lynch LL now?
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Interesting
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I... don't get the point of this claim ?
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I don't understand the correlation between galzria being a candidate and lynching LaLight
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I... don't get the point of this claim ?
No, really?? Surprise!
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I don't understand the correlation between galzria being a candidate and lynching LaLight
There's not, directly. Except we can stop talking about Teproc's ridiculous notions of me being Mafia now because of his "perceived" belief that I "obviously want iguana to shoot, even though I keep saying he shouldn't." /eyeroll.
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Also, you're saying I'm "blind" while repeating exactly what I'm accusing you of doing. You're saying iguana should do whatever he wants. I say he shouldn't. That's not misunderstnading, that's disagreeing.
PPE: Well ? What does it achieve ?
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I... don't get the point of this claim ?
No, really?? Surprise!
Why does you being a candidate provide something here?
Anyways, if Galzria is lying: exactly one candidate should point this out. I have 100% confidence that Galzria is not lying on this.
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YOU KEEP SAING WE SHOULDN'T TELL IGUANA NOT TO SHOOT.
Yes ? This is true right ?
If the option is "iguana doesn't shoot period" or "iguana does whatever", arguing for the latter means you're open to the possibility of town!iguana shooting. I'm saying you shouldn't. Stop trying to make me pass for a dumb five-year old, thank you very much.
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And I'm accusing you of saying you don't want him to shoot (meaning I DO understand you're saying that) while doing everything in your power to encourage him to shoot. I'm sayhing you're being manipulative and that makes me think you're scum. Clear enough for you ?
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I... don't get the point of this claim ?
No, really?? Surprise!
Why does you being a candidate provide something here?
Anyways, if Galzria is lying: exactly one candidate should point this out. I have 100% confidence that Galzria is not lying on this.
Agreed.
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YOU KEEP SAING WE SHOULDN'T TELL IGUANA NOT TO SHOOT.
Yes ? This is true right ?
If the option is "iguana doesn't shoot period" or "iguana does whatever", arguing for the latter means you're open to the possibility of town!iguana shooting. I'm saying you shouldn't. Stop trying to make me pass for a dumb five-year old, thank you very much.
Yes, I'm open to the possibility. That's the point. You're not, and that's ridiculously scummy. I don't think he SHOULD, but I, nor you, nor anybody else can tell him what to do with his power. And if he DOES chose to shoot, I'm not going to rush off and lynch him.
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I... don't get the point of this claim ?
No, really?? Surprise!
Why does you being a candidate provide something here?
Anyways, if Galzria is lying: exactly one candidate should point this out. I have 100% confidence that Galzria is not lying on this.
Prove? No. Too strong. It's not an unarguable cop result. But if I'm Mafia I've just outed myself to the SM. Which is FAR worse than doing so as town.
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And I'm accusing you of saying you don't want him to shoot (meaning I DO understand you're saying that) while doing everything in your power to encourage him to shoot. I'm sayhing you're being manipulative and that makes me think you're scum. Clear enough for you ?
I don't want him to shoot.
Clear enough for you?
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And this is not irrelevant chatter about far-fetched possibilities, because the relevant point here is I struggle to see why town!Galz does this.
PPE: THe whole point of him claiming is to neuter his role. How you don't see this is beyond me.
Oh, it's a grab for towncred. Great. Scared of being lynched ?
PPE2: Yes, you've said that. Yet you want him to have the option. I know this, I've repeated it and you keep acting as if I didn't rea your posts. I'm saying you're being a hypocrit by doing everytjhing in your power to get him to shoot. Because if you don't want him to shoot, there is no reason for you to insist on this, yet you do.
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And this is not irrelevant chatter about far-fetched possibilities, because the relevant point here is I struggle to see why town!Galz does this.
PPE: THe whole point of him claiming is to neuter his role. How you don't see this is beyond me.
Oh, it's a grab for towncred. Great. Scared of being lynched ?
PPE2: Yes, you've said that. Yet you want him to have the option. I know this, I've repeated it and you keep acting as if I didn't rea your posts. I'm saying you're being a hypocrit by doing everytjhing in your power to get him to shoot. Because if you don't want him to shoot, there is no reason for you to insist on this, yet you do.
Yawn. I'm done arguing with you. I say "I don't want him to shoot", you say "That means you DO" is just a ridiculous and unwinable and pointless argument. Done.
Further, LOL. Yeah, I'm completely scared of being lynched with your singular vote on me. OH NO!
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This is possibly the stupidest probable town v town argument i've seen since... OK since M100, but still.
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And I think Galzria really lost his composure more than normal here, because I actually can't for the life of me see how the Candidate claim relates back to Galzria potentially being mafia. Completely threw away more info than needed.
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
We know that, but did you Poison anyone?
sorry
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Haha. I thought to say poison to be clear but their whole fight kinda threw me off because Galzria said 'shoot' the whole time.
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And I think Galzria really lost his composure more than normal here, because I actually can't for the life of me see how the Candidate claim relates back to Galzria potentially being mafia. Completely threw away more info than needed.
Possibly. But I'm just sick and tired of a very clear statement being spun literally 180 degrees and accused of doing the exact opposite. Does exposing myself to the SM not make me seem less likely to be Mafia to you? Seems a pretty clear loss if I AM Mafia to do so. As town I expect to die at some point. To the SM, to Mafia, to whatever. That's kinda part of what being town is about. Accepting that doesn't really bother me. As Mafia... well, I don't really see the benefit in throwing myself out there.
Still, maybe more information was given away than needed. I don't think so. But I've been wrong before. There's a lot of reasons the claim makes sense to me now, but wouldn't later. I dunno.
I'm just done arguing about iguana, and want to move on to LL. Every time I've tried, Teproc has dragged it back up again. It's felt like he's been intentionally trying to draw attention away from LL. In my head, claiming makes me far less likely to be Mafia, and almost certainly not the SM, so regardless of whatever perceived notions Teproc has about my beliefs, the fact is they are mine and ARE coming from a town point of view. I don't really care if he understands or not. My hope was that we could put the whole damn thing behind us and he would drop it so we can lynch LL.
Anyway, PPE, seems Iguana didn't Poison. Cool.
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And I think Galzria really lost his composure more than normal here, because I actually can't for the life of me see how the Candidate claim relates back to Galzria potentially being mafia. Completely threw away more info than needed.
Possibly. But I'm just sick and tired of a very clear statement being spun literally 180 degrees and accused of doing the exact opposite. Does exposing myself to the SM not make me seem less likely to be Mafia to you? Seems a pretty clear loss if I AM Mafia to do so. As town I expect to die at some point. To the SM, to Mafia, to whatever. That's kinda part of what being town is about. Accepting that doesn't really bother me. As Mafia... well, I don't really see the benefit in throwing myself out there.
Still, maybe more information was given away than needed. I don't think so. But I've been wrong before. There's a lot of reasons the claim makes sense to me now, but wouldn't later. I dunno.
I'm just done arguing about iguana, and want to move on to LL. Every time I've tried, Teproc has dragged it back up again. It's felt like he's been intentionally trying to draw attention away from LL. In my head, claiming makes me far less likely to be Mafia, and almost certainly not the SM, so regardless of whatever perceived notions Teproc has about my beliefs, the fact is they are mine and ARE coming from a town point of view. I don't really care if he understands or not. My hope was that we could put the whole damn thing behind us and he would drop it so we can lynch LL.
Anyway, PPE, seems Iguana didn't Poison. Cool.
It makes you seem townier, sure, at a cost of benefiting the SM.
Why did you need to seem townier? You, like you said, had one vote on you.
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And I think Galzria really lost his composure more than normal here, because I actually can't for the life of me see how the Candidate claim relates back to Galzria potentially being mafia. Completely threw away more info than needed.
Possibly. But I'm just sick and tired of a very clear statement being spun literally 180 degrees and accused of doing the exact opposite. Does exposing myself to the SM not make me seem less likely to be Mafia to you? Seems a pretty clear loss if I AM Mafia to do so. As town I expect to die at some point. To the SM, to Mafia, to whatever. That's kinda part of what being town is about. Accepting that doesn't really bother me. As Mafia... well, I don't really see the benefit in throwing myself out there.
Still, maybe more information was given away than needed. I don't think so. But I've been wrong before. There's a lot of reasons the claim makes sense to me now, but wouldn't later. I dunno.
I'm just done arguing about iguana, and want to move on to LL. Every time I've tried, Teproc has dragged it back up again. It's felt like he's been intentionally trying to draw attention away from LL. In my head, claiming makes me far less likely to be Mafia, and almost certainly not the SM, so regardless of whatever perceived notions Teproc has about my beliefs, the fact is they are mine and ARE coming from a town point of view. I don't really care if he understands or not. My hope was that we could put the whole damn thing behind us and he would drop it so we can lynch LL.
Anyway, PPE, seems Iguana didn't Poison. Cool.
It makes you seem townier, sure, at a cost of benefiting the SM.
Why did you need to seem townier? You, like you said, had one vote on you.
Because Teproc's whole argument amounted to "Your statements don't make sense as town, therefore you are scum". If I'm not scum, then my statements are town originated and the whole thing could be dropped. That was essentially the idea. They were, in Teproc's words, a "towncred grab", yes - but it had nothing to do with being worried about being lynched. Just wanted to be done arguing that I'm being manipulative and trying to get iguana to shoot.
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Haha. I thought to say poison to be clear but their whole fight kinda threw me off because Galzria said 'shoot' the whole time.
Haha I'm still doing it. It's because in my head you're a delayed Vig, but still a Vig. So "Shooting" is the go-to term.
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And I think Galzria really lost his composure more than normal here, because I actually can't for the life of me see how the Candidate claim relates back to Galzria potentially being mafia. Completely threw away more info than needed.
So yes, I probably overreacted a little bit. But I don't think it's to the super great detriment of town.
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Maybe Galz is a SM
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Maybe Galz is a SM
I would need to be Godfather to give a false result to our Leader, and Godfather comes from your claimed slot of JailKeeper.
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Maybe Galz is a SM
I would need to be Godfather to give a false result to our Leader, and Godfather comes from your claimed slot of JailKeeper.
and goes to slot with 3 unclaimed slots. Anyway sorry, I forgot the fact you were checked. Also, there's an Inv Immune
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Maybe Galz is a SM
I would need to be Godfather to give a false result to our Leader, and Godfather comes from your claimed slot of JailKeeper.
and goes to slot with 3 unclaimed slots. Anyway sorry, I forgot the fact you were checked. Also, there's an Inv Immune
It could've gone to the Barracks, yes. Investigation Immune would've returned a "No Result" when checked, not "Not SM".
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I completely believe galzria
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I completely believe galzria
I do not see how his claim could be done if not true.
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
99% sure Galz would agree that LaL applies there.
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We'd lynch iguana no matter what Galz wants.
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All the same. Was more to make sure I wasn't missing something.
LAL=lynch all liars??
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
99% sure Galz would agree that LaL applies there.
Yes.
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All the same. Was more to make sure I wasn't missing something.
LAL=lynch all liars??
Yes
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I think Galzria is town.
LL going SK-hunting in this situation made me chuckle.
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vote: LaLight
I just don't think there is any way you are town here. Your defenses when about to be lynched are much better than this.
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All the same. Was more to make sure I wasn't missing something.
LAL=lynch all liars??
Yes
Sorry. Yes, contextually. Could also mean Lynch all Lurkers at other times.
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All the same. Was more to make sure I wasn't missing something.
LAL=lynch all liars??
Yes
Sorry. Yes, contextually. Could also mean Lynch all Lurkers at other times.
Or lynch all Lalights
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I want to be honest about something here:
I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation. Claiming one thing, especially when faced with lynch, and then changing it later cannot be something a player is given a pass for. And it's something town just cannot do.
The other 25% of the reason I'm voting him is because i find him scummy from yesterday, and IDPTG & WE were both town.
If I disregard absolutely everything except reads, I still find Eevee to be my highest scum read. Faust would probably be second, but not for reasons I can put my finger on. Following that, I'll admit I simply cannot read Gkrieg or O. Datwan I'll struggle with constantly because of the twin claim. Iguana is the #1 person I would cop if I were Gunsmith. Teproc... I don't want to get into about. E I thought was scummy D1 because prior to the reroll he didn't bother to ask opinions before starting the mass claim but this time around he did... but I'm less scummy on him now. RR... is just 50/50 really. I don't know that he'll ever be anything different. Vote analysis is probably the best way to catch him. Space I've never seen as scum, and have no real opinion on. They're less Spacey than 100, but I don't know if that's scummy or not. Chairs hasn't yet posted, and Archetype didn't give much.
If there's anybody I missed, I simply have no opinion on you I guess, sorry! >.>
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Space has been pretty quiet this game, but that can probably be chalked up to their trip. Since, a comfortable place for scum hide, if that's what they drew. No real point to this musing, just occurred to me that Space is usually someone more talked about.
Unrelated, if LL is town and just messed up his claim* and we lynch him, day 2 was such a success for scum. This LL business has compeletely dominated the discussion all of today, I think looking back at what's been happening in light of a few new flips later would probably yield almost no useful insights. Basically, for scum LAL provides the perfect cover for pushing the mislynch hard. Later they could explain their votes on town simply by saying "He lied to us, what else could have done?". On the other side, softly defending LL is also safe, because after he flips town, the defenders can claim the moral high ground, "he just didn't seem like scum despite the optics" is an unrefutable read. Scum isn't forced to put down thoughts on everyone today, at least not in a high pressure situation, because all the attention is on LL. I guess I'm echoing what Galzria said above - it's very bad for us if LL is town, but that's also partially our fault.
*About the claim, it is a weird situation. Even assuming LL is scum, I don't see the benefits of intentionally lying about his bid and position, and then coming clean even though no one directly contradicted it. That makes me think that whatever LL's alignment, there has been a mistake involved in this, which would make any "makes no sense to behave like this" analysis obsolete. Scum does have more information (and more claims to coordinate), so it's also possible that there was more method to this madness than I'm seeing right now, and I definitely understand people's eagerness to lynch him "just in case he is scum, letting people lie and get away with it would set a terrible precedent".
If LL is scum, I think it's pretty self-explanatory who look towny or not, although this would definitely be more a situation for bussing than going ultra hard defending your partner (I don't think anyone is defending LL very hard anyways). If LL is town, I would expect scum to be more likely to have had a strong opinion on him one way or another (a coherent, thought out response with a purpose), and more town to look conflicted and confused with the weird situation. Basically, right now, if LL is torn, scum is just thanking their lucky stars day 2 is resolving the way it is, and coordinating how they want to look like after LL's flip which they would know. Town's responses are going to be less "clean". I really don't think this is such a clear LAL - situation, because the advantages to his lie and the circumstances of him getting caught are the they are.
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Eevee has good thoughts.
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And a whole lot of phone posting - related typos. Sorry about those, ask away if you can't make sense of any of the sentences, I really should have read that before posting.
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This is possibly the stupidest probable town v town argument i've seen since... OK since M100, but still.
Scummy.
What makes this probable town v town?
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I disagree completely with Galzria, so I suppose he's town. This whole argument is kinda unnecessary. And posts like this do not help:
I'm just done arguing about iguana, and want to move on to LL. [continues arguing and does not move on to LL]
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I disagree completely with Galzria, so I suppose he's town. This whole argument is kinda unnecessary. And posts like this do not help:
Scummy. What makes Galzria town?
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vote: LaLight
I just don't think there is any way you are town here. Your defenses when about to be lynched are much better than this.
[/quote
What do you not like about it? You're just putting this out here, no substance attached.
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
It benefits the SM largely and town marginally, as Galzria is IC'd a bit here. I don't see how this benefits Mafia at all.
I do think it's bad given that Galzria would be the prime investigator of Gkrieg here..
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
It benefits the SM largely and town marginally, as Galzria is IC'd a bit here. I don't see how this benefits Mafia at all.
I do think it's bad given that Galzria would be the prime investigator of Gkrieg here..
In benefits mafia in that they can rely on Glazria dying. Galzria being IC'd doesn't really help us; he is a Candidate and thus in no real danger of being lynched unless he outs himself as scum.
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
It benefits the SM largely and town marginally, as Galzria is IC'd a bit here. I don't see how this benefits Mafia at all.
I do think it's bad given that Galzria would be the prime investigator of Gkrieg here..
In benefits mafia in that they can rely on Glazria dying. Galzria being IC'd doesn't really help us; he is a Candidate and thus in no real danger of being lynched unless he outs himself as scum.
very little guarantee he dies tonight
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
It benefits the SM largely and town marginally, as Galzria is IC'd a bit here. I don't see how this benefits Mafia at all.
I do think it's bad given that Galzria would be the prime investigator of Gkrieg here..
In benefits mafia in that they can rely on Glazria dying. Galzria being IC'd doesn't really help us; he is a Candidate and thus in no real danger of being lynched unless he outs himself as scum.
very little guarantee he dies tonight
? You don't believe that him being the only "confirmed" Candidate makes him extremely likely to be the SK target?
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I'm voting LaLight 75% because of the botched claim. I'm sorry, but while he may not see it, messing this up as town puts everyone else in a really bad situation.
Of course that is coming from a claimed Candidate...
Do you think Galzria is lying about being a candidate?
No; I think he made a claim that only benefitted scum and put everyone in a bad situation. Only unlike LaLight, he did so on purpose.
It benefits the SM largely and town marginally, as Galzria is IC'd a bit here. I don't see how this benefits Mafia at all.
I do think it's bad given that Galzria would be the prime investigator of Gkrieg here..
In benefits mafia in that they can rely on Glazria dying. Galzria being IC'd doesn't really help us; he is a Candidate and thus in no real danger of being lynched unless he outs himself as scum.
very little guarantee he dies tonight
? You don't believe that him being the only "confirmed" Candidate makes him extremely likely to be the SK target?
No benefit lies in any further discussion of this topic.
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No benefit lies in any further discussion of this topic.
Well, benefit to the SM does
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Space has been pretty quiet this game, but that can probably be chalked up to their trip. Since, a comfortable place for scum hide, if that's what they drew. No real point to this musing, just occurred to me that Space is usually someone more talked about.
Scum was what I drew the first time we started this, when I was on a conference trip to Canada! I tried so hard to stay active so I wouldn't get lynched as clammed-up scum :-P Now I'm just town after the re-start, which is kind of disappointing, because that would only have been my second "M" game as scum, and the first was that one with you and Robz where there were lots of mod-kills and then it was declared a draw, so it wasn't really the full scum experience. Anyway, yeah, I had another international work trip to Germany the following week, though that one was short at least. I'm just really fried all the traveling (and a couple of music gigs/concerts in between), and it's taking a while to recover. It's kind of comforting that you lot persist here in the interwebs through it all, even when real life is stressful, and even though several of you are probably plotting to kill me :-P In related news, I'm going to be away for the weekend, so phone posting only...
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Vote: LaLight
There's too much guys.
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Vote: LaLight
There's too much guys.
Too much of what?
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Vote: LaLight
There's too much guys.
Too much of what?
Differentness, weirdness and scumminess
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I am definitely bound to protect Jimmmmm/Galzria now what I actually intend to do, so it is pointless to lynch me. If you see I did something else, like, protected someone else, that would be a reason to lynch me. But now all I can do and want to do is to be FINALLY useful
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But actually what I think is that I am lynched already. vote count?
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But actually what I think is that I am lynched already. vote count?
That's definitely not true. You're probably at L-3 or L-2
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Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
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I think alreasy that everyone in this game wants me lynched :/
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oh, L-1.
Guys, seriously. I am starting getting useful. I'll draw NK eventually, till then I can protect claimed Candidate/IC. I just won;t live for many days left!
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Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
Also you should maybe change Arch -> chairs :)
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let me live, please. I am more useful alive than dead. Much more useful.
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That's what I thought. And it makes me a little doubtful that mafia was hoping to mislynch you: it'd be like counting on mislynching yuma or e: some people are just good at talking themselves out of lynches.
Let's see you try ! vote: LL
PPE: I don't do post counts. I do vote counts, but I never cared about post counts. You're confusing me with faust.
So this argument is what makes me think that Lalight can very much be scum. When I was scum with Lalight in M100, the only reason he got lynched really is because Ashersky made a post that really upset him and he lost all heart to play the game. Before that, he was unflinchingly towny and ready to defend himself, even to the extent that he scolded me for not bussing him more in the scum QT. "I can handle the pressure."
I think scum Lalight actually wants to put pressure on himself because his great lynch record has made himself very confident as scum.
Vote: Lalight
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That's what I thought. And it makes me a little doubtful that mafia was hoping to mislynch you: it'd be like counting on mislynching yuma or e: some people are just good at talking themselves out of lynches.
Let's see you try ! vote: LL
PPE: I don't do post counts. I do vote counts, but I never cared about post counts. You're confusing me with faust.
So this argument is what makes me think that Lalight can very much be scum. When I was scum with Lalight in M100, the only reason he got lynched really is because Ashersky made a post that really upset him and he lost all heart to play the game. Before that, he was unflinchingly towny and ready to defend himself, even to the extent that he scolded me for not bussing him more in the scum QT. "I can handle the pressure."
I think scum Lalight actually wants to put pressure on himself because his great lynch record has made himself very confident as scum.
Vote: Lalight
oh wow. Hammer
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Hammer? I thought you had like 5 votes.
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some of you gonna be very surprised. Of course I was town and of course I was a JK and of course I jk'd gkrieg and, well, you will know it yourselves right now.
This is all very sad, I am sorry for disastrous play, I really am.
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Hammer? I thought you had like 5 votes.
Vote count by Space is 4 posts earlier. Nevermind
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Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
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killed by derphammer. just perfect
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I was doing a reread...
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Reads:
gkrieg and Eevee are scums. fauts is scummy, so is Teproc. DatSwan, Galzria - obv!towns. SA - null, but on the townier side. Iguana - town. RR - scummy a lot for this cute "I didn't know it's L-1" and disappearing trick. chairs didn't post who else there
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Qvist - scummy. E - townie. O - townie
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not sure if my reads are going to help, but here they are
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oh and... I am not trolling you. I am town, played townie and did nothing that hurt town.
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and I really wanted to stick around as much as possible
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and do stuff for town.
Nevermind, I am off, sorry for fluff
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Crap, I saw Gkrieg's unvote but not his revote. Hopefully Lalight is still lying.
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I think even in M100 Lalight lied during twilight too... Hopefully he's just scum.
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This was a terrible lynch. Also, no excuse about missing L-1, LaLight had just posted a vote count
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No, space had.
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I can't help but feel like my inactivity contributed to the lynch. My usual self would have reread and defended LaLight, I just never got around to it
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This was a terrible lynch. Also, no excuse about missing L-1, LaLight had just posted a vote count
That and the RR vote were in the PPEs I didn't read because my phone post took so long :/
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This was a terrible lynch. Also, no excuse about missing L-1, LaLight had just posted a vote count
That and the RR vote were in the PPEs I didn't read because my phone post took so long :/
Well, that makes sense then. I definitely power through and ignore "ppe 11" or "PoE 6" or whatever
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"Ppe" not PoE
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You could have been so much more. As long as I'm alive you are never going anywhere. No matter how hard you try someone will always take my place.
2.Final Vote Count
LaLight (8): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (4): Jimmmmm, Qvist, Chairs, 2.71828
With 15 alive it took 8 to lynch.
Lalight has been crossed off Jacob's list, he was Sayid Jarrah, the Smoke Monster aligned Jailkeeper
Night 2 begins now and ends at 10:00 AM on Sunday October 1. Night actions are due within 48 hours. The island is safe for now.
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Chang and everybody else left to go investigate some weird electromagnetic anomaly. Even my dad went. I got left behind, like usual.
They didn't even bother to turn the sonar fence back on. Horace said it's pointless now, we're safe. But he's living a fantasy. No one is ever safe. Not from them.
One day I'll show my dad and everybody else that I was too important to leave behind. I'm special. He's not.
You'll all see.
Well, not all of you. Something bad happened last night. Don't look at me like that, I was in my room the whole time...
Jimmmmm succumbed to poison. He was Aaron Littleton, the Crash Survivors-aligned Day 2 Innocent Child.
Day 3 begins now. Thread unlocked!
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Jimmmmm succumbed to poison.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/43/4e/f3/434ef31a9c9fccf8f893e6ec99c3f2bd--lost-memes-lost-love.jpg)
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Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Z5p44wwvR5ni/giphy.gif)
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Oh my.
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Explain yourself, lizard!
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If I were town Poisoner and I believed in Vigilantes I would have shot N1. I think a potential death N2 from poison tells us nothing about iguanas alignment
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/88704618b87fdfa05334b41a691a0dcb/tumblr_mklr2o7AX81qf9fr7o6_r1_250.gif)
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Explain yourself, lizard!
(https://4815162342execute.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/firewater-cap191.jpg?w=367&h=203)
"I was just trying to save him!"
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Vote: Iguana
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Vote: Iguana
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/c1/d8/d1c1d8e96d74883c18ded8819e5a93d1.jpg)
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hahaha guys I have so many memes
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Well I guess that's something. We should collect our thoughts before we lynch iguana.
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Either the memes stop or my voting doesn't!
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Either the memes stop or my voting doesn't!
(https://i.imgur.com/etM41yn.gif)
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The only thing I hate more than vote counts is my father.
Vote Count 3.0
iguanaiguana (1): Eevee
Not Voting (12): iguaniguana, Qvist, chairs, RoadRunner7671, 2.71828, Teproc, Galzria, faust, SpaceAnemone, O, DatSwan, gkrieg13
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 3 ends Sunday, October 8 at 10 AM.
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In all seriousness, Iguana's tone and approach here scream scum to me.
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Yes he is clearly scum.
vote: iguana
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Yes he is clearly scum.
vote: iguana
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/6325c1ebb33e66c5fa513ee2cbc68bc0/tumblr_nqpvgl9CGy1tsbfloo2_250.gif)
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Seriously Iguana, don't you have anything to say?
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Iguana prepared himself for this moment
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You could have told us you poisoned the IC. Maybe he would have survived.
Because, you know, had he been protected tonight he would have survived
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You could have told us you poisoned the IC. Maybe he would have survived.
Because, you know, had he been protected tonight he would have survived
Are you sure that is true?
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On the bright side: scums factional kill didn't hit.
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You could have told us you poisoned the IC. Maybe he would have survived.
Because, you know, had he been protected tonight he would have survived
Are you sure that is true?
I reread the pm in the setup before posting this
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Now read the stuff, I doubt we have a doctor, but the fact he didn’t say anything is very bad.
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Poisoner -- Juliet Burke
You are the Poisoner!
At night, you may target a player. One full night later, that player will die.
If the player is protected on the night the player would succumb to poison, the player will survive. A jailed player cannot be poisoned, but a jailed player can succumb to poisoning.
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Well, obviously we're lynching iguana. I don't think that's in question (cue Galzria coming in and saying it is), but there might be some things to discuss.
I guess I'm not sure which ones though.
Oh, it is possible that Jimmmmm was protected and died anyway: that would explain the missing mafia kill actually.
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Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Unless mafia were absolutely certain Jimmmmm would be doctored and decide to kill him ot make the poisoning go through, but that's irredeemably dumb.
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Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Unless mafia were absolutely certain Jimmmmm would be doctored and decide to kill him ot make the poisoning go through, but that's irredeemably dumb.
Unless mafia didn't know jimmmmm was poisoned
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Well, obviously we're lynching iguana. I don't think that's in question (cue Galzria coming in and saying it is), but there might be some things to discuss.
I guess I'm not sure which ones though.
Oh, it is possible that Jimmmmm was protected and died anyway: that would explain the missing mafia kill actually.
Weird. Teproc taking what I said and flipping it exactly 180 degrees. Who would've guessed?
Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
99% sure Galz would agree that LaL applies there.
Yes.
vote: iguana
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Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Unless mafia were absolutely certain Jimmmmm would be doctored and decide to kill him ot make the poisoning go through, but that's irredeemably dumb.
Unless mafia didn't know jimmmmm was poisoned
Taht requires iguana to be town, which... no.
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Well, obviously we're lynching iguana. I don't think that's in question (cue Galzria coming in and saying it is), but there might be some things to discuss.
I guess I'm not sure which ones though.
Oh, it is possible that Jimmmmm was protected and died anyway: that would explain the missing mafia kill actually.
Weird. Teproc taking what I said and flipping it exactly 180 degrees. Who would've guessed?
I was trying to be funny. iguana being scum makes my whole argument against you moot anyway, so there.
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Yes he is clearly scum.
vote: iguana
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/6325c1ebb33e66c5fa513ee2cbc68bc0/tumblr_nqpvgl9CGy1tsbfloo2_250.gif)
Just for this i kind of want to let you alive. Ben Linus forever.
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Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Unless mafia were absolutely certain Jimmmmm would be doctored and decide to kill him ot make the poisoning go through, but that's irredeemably dumb.
Unless mafia didn't know jimmmmm was poisoned
Taht requires iguana to be town, which... no.
Just playing devils advocate.
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Actually, we might want to quicklynch.
vote: iguana
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I don't really want to lynch too quickly today. I am fine lynching iguana, but like it has been mentioned, there is stuff to talk about
-
Actually, we might want to quicklynch.
vote: iguana
Convince me and I might join
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Of the quick lynch, not the lynch. I get the lynch
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Well, obviously we're lynching iguana. I don't think that's in question (cue Galzria coming in and saying it is), but there might be some things to discuss.
I guess I'm not sure which ones though.
Oh, it is possible that Jimmmmm was protected and died anyway: that would explain the missing mafia kill actually.
Weird. Teproc taking what I said and flipping it exactly 180 degrees. Who would've guessed?
Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
99% sure Galz would agree that LaL applies there.
Yes.
vote: iguana
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/g0XEyaRx864/hqdefault.jpg)
"How dare you?"
-
Iguana - did you poison someone last night?
-
Actually, we might want to quicklynch.
vote: iguana
(http://i46.tinypic.com/j6mkao.gif)
-
Actually, we might want to quicklynch.
vote: iguana
Convince me and I might join
If scum has Protector of the Island, they can make iguana lynchproof.
-
Assuming he's still considered a Candidate: I assume candidate status still works after the SM's death, though we don't have a QT anymore (I was a candidate and so was iguana, Galz can confirm)
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Of the quick lynch, not the lynch. I get the lynch
Were you looking for the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth e?
GO AHEAD E, NEXT VOTE'S THE HAMMER
I GOT A DESMOND MEME, it's so good hahahaha
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Of the quick lynch, not the lynch. I get the lynch
Were you looking for the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth e?
GO AHEAD E, NEXT VOTE'S THE HAMMER
I GOT A DESMOND MEME, it's so good hahahaha
Just the truth is fine
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There is a cost to quicklynching if some people wanted to claim something etc. but I think it's worth it if we circumvent a lynchproof case which could give scum an extra kill.
-
Another meme and I will lynch you.
They were funny at first now they are just obnoxious
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Another meme and I will lynch you.
They were funny at first now they are just obnoxious
Seriously e, I think you should vote iguana. Now.
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Meh.
Vote: iguana
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I mean, yeah. The more I think about it the more I believe exactly what you are saying about protector of the island
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And that iguana is probably already protected
-
Well, obviously we're lynching iguana. I don't think that's in question (cue Galzria coming in and saying it is), but there might be some things to discuss.
I guess I'm not sure which ones though.
Oh, it is possible that Jimmmmm was protected and died anyway: that would explain the missing mafia kill actually.
Weird. Teproc taking what I said and flipping it exactly 180 degrees. Who would've guessed?
I was trying to be funny. iguana being scum makes my whole argument against you moot anyway, so there.
Sorry. Pre-coffee Galz sees no humor in anything. :(
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Still need two votes I think. I mean it's very possible that a scum!Protector did it already anyway, but still.
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I like all the meme's
-
Meh.
Vote: iguana
(https://i.imgur.com/MiXiB9p.gif)
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I count 5 votes?
-
Jimmm, who did you poison N2?
-
Yeah, seven to lynch....
I need to go find an L-1 meme.
-
Also, in case it was unclear to anybody: LaLight was the SM, not the SM-Aligned Mother.
I thought the flip was unclear, but we're locked on the Candidate Thread, which means the SM was killed.
-
So yeah. If iguana is protected.... that means scum gets 3 kills for the price of one death.
Not a bad deal actually
-
Alright, so
If you're coming in, you need to vote iguana right now. He's obvscum: Jimmm died of poison and iguana is responding to accusations with memes, which is fun but not what he'd do as town. It seems likely that scum has a Protector of the Island who can make iguana lynchproof, but they do have to post it in their QT so if we quicklynch we could conceivably beat them to it. So vote iguana, now, please.
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Alright, so
If you're coming in, you need to vote iguana right now. He's obvscum: Jimmm died of poison and iguana is responding to accusations with memes, which is fun but not what he'd do as town. It seems likely that scum has a Protector of the Island who can make iguana lynchproof, but they do have to post it in their QT so if we quicklynch we could conceivably beat them to it. So vote iguana, now, please.
I have a meme response, but the image is too big so I'mma spare you guys and just link it. (https://img00.deviantart.net/a0f2/i/2015/212/c/a/lost_meme_by_thecunningtrickester-d93mhhu.png)
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Also, I don't think whoever blocked scum should claim at this point.
If iguana is protected, you will probably want to block iguana so we don't have another townie die of poison N4
-
Well, I think claiming would be good if iguana is indeed protected
-
Actually, do what you want. I don't know what the best course of action is
-
It really does seem like Iguana wants to be lynched. Could there be other reasons than the protector of the island? I can't think of any.
-
So here's the explanation.
I am a town. I poisoned Jimmm because I thought, yeah, that dude is scum. He's the scummiest for sure of us all. Then unfortunately he got IC'd right after I poisoned him. I was about to admit to poisoning him to all of you like a good honest town, but then everyone except my scum partner Galzria said that they would lynch me in the case that I chose to use my poison power, so I had to lie and tell you all that I didn't shoot* so that you wouldn't lynch me on D2. Because a town death on D2 is worse than a town death on D3, because maybe we'll lynch scum in the mean time. And hey, I hammered one for you! Therefore, clearly I deserve town MVP this game.
*technically not a lie. Because I didn't shoot, I POISONED. hahahahahaha
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So here's the explanation.
I am a town. I poisoned Jimmm because I thought, yeah, that dude is scum. He's the scummiest for sure of us all. Then unfortunately he got IC'd right after I poisoned him. I was about to admit to poisoning him to all of you like a good honest town, but then everyone except my scum partner Galzria said that they would lynch me in the case that I chose to use my poison power, so I had to lie and tell you all that I didn't shoot* so that you wouldn't lynch me on D2. Because a town death on D2 is worse than a town death on D3, because maybe we'll lynch scum in the mean time. And hey, I hammered one for you! Therefore, clearly I deserve town MVP this game.
*technically not a lie. Because I didn't shoot, I POISONED. hahahahahaha
Jimmm, who did you poison N2?
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So here's the explanation.
I am a town. I poisoned Jimmm because I thought, yeah, that dude is scum. He's the scummiest for sure of us all. Then unfortunately he got IC'd right after I poisoned him. I was about to admit to poisoning him to all of you like a good honest town, but then everyone except my scum partner Galzria said that they would lynch me in the case that I chose to use my poison power, so I had to lie and tell you all that I didn't shoot* so that you wouldn't lynch me on D2. Because a town death on D2 is worse than a town death on D3, because maybe we'll lynch scum in the mean time. And hey, I hammered one for you! Therefore, clearly I deserve town MVP this game.
*technically not a lie. Because I didn't shoot, I POISONED. hahahahahaha
Iguana, who did you poison N2?
God, pre coffee Galz is awful.
-
PCAMA
-
Lol
-
So here's the explanation.
I am a town. I poisoned Jimmm because I thought, yeah, that dude is scum. He's the scummiest for sure of us all. Then unfortunately he got IC'd right after I poisoned him. I was about to admit to poisoning him to all of you like a good honest town, but then everyone except my scum partner Galzria said that they would lynch me in the case that I chose to use my poison power, so I had to lie and tell you all that I didn't shoot* so that you wouldn't lynch me on D2. Because a town death on D2 is worse than a town death on D3, because maybe we'll lynch scum in the mean time. And hey, I hammered one for you! Therefore, clearly I deserve town MVP this game.
*technically not a lie. Because I didn't shoot, I POISONED. hahahahahaha
Jimmm, who did you poison N2?
Jim is dead man, he can't answer your questions.
-
He's dead, Jim.
-
So here's the explanation.
I am a town. I poisoned Jimmm because I thought, yeah, that dude is scum. He's the scummiest for sure of us all. Then unfortunately he got IC'd right after I poisoned him. I was about to admit to poisoning him to all of you like a good honest town, but then everyone except my scum partner Galzria said that they would lynch me in the case that I chose to use my poison power, so I had to lie and tell you all that I didn't shoot* so that you wouldn't lynch me on D2. Because a town death on D2 is worse than a town death on D3, because maybe we'll lynch scum in the mean time. And hey, I hammered one for you! Therefore, clearly I deserve town MVP this game.
*technically not a lie. Because I didn't shoot, I POISONED. hahahahahaha
Iguana, who did you poison N2?
God, pre coffee Galz is awful.
-
He's dead, Jim.
Vote: Teproc for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
-
Only just catching up now.
Vote: iguana
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Love all the memes. But obviously going to vote for ii, but before I do, is there anything that could save him beside the Protector of the Island?
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Love all the memes. But obviously going to vote for ii, but before I do, is there anything that could save him beside the Protector of the Island?
No. Vote now.
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Love all the memes. But obviously going to vote for ii, but before I do, is there anything that could save him beside the Protector of the Island?
No. Vote now.
Please :).
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Love all the memes. But obviously going to vote for ii, but before I do, is there anything that could save him beside the Protector of the Island?
Please vote now
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Only just catching up now.
Vote: iguana
(http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/17/07/480x240/landscape-1487001906-lostjack.gif)
...to before you all voted me!
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Vote: ii
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Was that the hammer?
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Vote: ii
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerfectMixedHumpbackwhale-max-1mb.gif)
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Thank you.
Now we'll see if we got there in time. In the interim, let me put forth this gem:
Well I guess that's something. We should collect our thoughts before we lynch iguana.
/discuss
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It was a pleasure to play with all of you. I was only a pawn, but the match continues. Peace.
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Was that the hammer?
By my count, yes: Eevee, gkrieg, Galz, Teproc, e, Space, Qvist.
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Well. Should do it.
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If he is going to protected, I'll vote for Teproc tomorrow.
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It was a pleasure to play with all of you. I was only a pawn, but the match continues. Peace.
The feeling is mutual. Your exit was certainly in style.
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If he is going to protected, I'll vote for Teproc tomorrow.
Well if he's protected you'll get to go for me today since he won't be lynched at all.
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It was a pleasure to play with all of you. I was only a pawn, but the match continues. Peace.
Loved the meme's. Didn't think they got old at all.
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It was a blaze of glory, certainly.
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If he is going to protected, I'll vote for Teproc tomorrow.
Well if he's protected you'll get to go for me today since he won't be lynched at all.
I guess you won't since I'd be lynchproof as well.
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Assuming he's still considered a Candidate: I assume candidate status still works after the SM's death, though we don't have a QT anymore (I was a candidate and so was iguana, Galz can confirm)
Missed this. Yes. With Swan and Eevee.
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He's dead, Jim.
Vote: Teproc for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.
I lol'd, btw.
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Vote: ii
Just in case
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Assuming he's still considered a Candidate: I assume candidate status still works after the SM's death, though we don't have a QT anymore (I was a candidate and so was iguana, Galz can confirm)
Missed this. Yes. With Swan and Eevee.
And e.
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Assuming he's still considered a Candidate: I assume candidate status still works after the SM's death, though we don't have a QT anymore (I was a candidate and so was iguana, Galz can confirm)
Missed this. Yes. With Swan and Eevee.
Huh, missed this as well, good to know.
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Who is the 6th one?
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Also, if jimmm had been shot and succumbed to poison we would have seen evidence for that in the flip.
So good job whoever prevented the scum factional kill
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2.7
DatSwan
Iguanaiguana
Teproc
Galzria
Eevee
Full list of candidates.
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Who is the 6th one?
Me
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Thread locked.
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cant post flip for another hour though, sorry
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Pathetic. The Dharma Initiative came here seeking harmony, but it can't even live in harmony with them. I know my purpose. They'll be sorry...
Vote Count 3.Final
iguanaiguana (7): Eevee, gkrieg13, Galzria, Teproc, 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, Qvist
Teproc (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): chairs, RoadRunner7671, faust, O, DatSwan
With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.
Iguanaiguana has been crossed off Jacob's List. He was Naomi, the Others Goon. He was also a Candidate.
Night 3 begins now. Actions are due by 2:00 PM on Tuesday, October 3rd.
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The start of Day 4 might be delayed a few hours.
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Wow. What town. So smart. Much love. Belly rubs now. Yes.
Why these nice humans no want do fetch with me?
Gkrieg13 was found dead of a gunshot wound to the chest. He was Daniel Faraday, the Crash Survivors-aligned 2-Shot Redirector.
Chairs succumbed to poison. He was Miles Straume, the Crash Survivors-aligned Night 3 Forensic Scientist.
Day 4 begins now. Thread unlocked, woof!
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We're back!
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Yay people! Yay voting! Yay fun games! Where's Walt?
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (10): Eevee, Galzria, Teproc, 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, Qvist, RoadRunner7671, faust, O, DatSwan
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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We're in LyLo
-
So we need to lynch correctly D4. Two outcomes:
N3: 12 Alive, 3 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D4: 10 Alive, 3 scum. Poisoner Lynch.
N4: 9 Alive, 2 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D5: 7 Alive, 2 Scum. Standard 9 Player Game.
----------
Or
----------
N3: 12 Alive, 3 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D4: 10 Alive, 3 scum. Not-Poisoner Lynch.
N4: 9 Alive, 2 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill
D5: 7 Alive, 2 Scum. Not-Poisoner Lynch.
N5: 6 Alive, 1 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill
D6: 4 Alive, 1 Scum. MyLo. He can't both Poison & Shoot N5.
----------
Conclusion: We're in LyLo until the Poisoner Dies. #Fucked
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For future claim purposes, it's a relief to see that town had the redirector. In other news, losing two power roles is not the best.
I must admit I have pretty no idea who I suspect right now. Feels daunting to reread this game, but that just might be needed to resolve some of this. Figuring out what Iguana's interactions mean might be less useful than usual, because it seems he was on a suicide mission from the beginning.
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If we mislynch today:
N3: 12 Alive, 3 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D4: 10 Alive, 3 scum. Mislynch.
N4: 9 Alive, 3 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D5: 7 Alive, 3 Scum. Even if we lynch correctly, then...
N5: 6 Alive, 2 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D6: Town Endgamed
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Aww geez, lylo!?
I'm having trouble following. Didn't we lynch the poisoner D3 already?
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Aww geez, lylo!?
I'm having trouble following. Didn't we lynch the poisoner D3 already?
No
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Oh damn it. I really should learn to read the flips better, I didn't even consider they could be pulling this. It's pretty smart, but crap.
Should we consider a massclaim then, if this is LYLO? I don't really have an opinion, but ensuring a correct lynch seems very important. Kind of sucks if scum wins if they get a 1-1 trade. This seems very difficult. Scum poisoner is so good!
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So we need to lynch correctly D4. Two outcomes:
N3: 12 Alive, 3 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D4: 10 Alive, 3 scum. Poisoner Lynch.
N4: 9 Alive, 2 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D5: 7 Alive, 2 Scum. Standard 9 Player Game.
----------
Or
----------
N3: 12 Alive, 3 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill.
D4: 10 Alive, 3 scum. Not-Poisoner Lynch.
N4: 9 Alive, 2 scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill
D5: 7 Alive, 2 Scum. Not-Poisoner Lynch.
N5: 6 Alive, 1 Scum. Assume Mafia Kill + Poisoner Kill
D6: 4 Alive, 1 Scum. MyLo. He can't both Poison & Shoot N5.
----------
Conclusion: We're in LyLo until the Poisoner Diess
I can’t find anywhere where it says posion and kill can’t be done by ge same person? Not that it really matters I guess just pointing it out
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We need to mass claim draft order and number bid.
like we should have done all along.
Seriously. Scum probably decided to switch bids with the poisoner N0, but claiming everyone bid position 10+ would have helped us a ton.
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Agreed that we should likely massclaim. That thing Teproc pulled yesterday was pretty scummy. Plus the D1 interaction with iguana - we should definitely investigate there.
Galzria's scenario is not quite as bad as it seems because if we mislynch, there is a chance we mislynch the Poisoner target. Also presumably we still have some PRs.
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The "thing I pulled" was, as it turns out, to scum's advantage, yes. Though even if the idea that iguana might be a non-Posioner scum had occured to us, I'm not sure we would have dared lynch elswhere, right ? So the only thing we really lost was possibly gkrieg claiming.
If anything, me making iguana claim made him more likely to be killed by the SK, so I'm still fine with that decision. It turns out iguana was quick on his feet and immediately figured out the best play for scum, which I get makes me look terrible, but you guys can deal with that.
I thought lylo was tomorrow ? If we mislynch today, tomorrow there's 4 town v 3 scum right ? And there we'd need to lynch the Poisoner (or get a blocked kill somewhere) ?
Oh right there's still a poisoner kill getting in at that point. So Galz is correct, unless we block a kill, which we certainly can't assume.
I agree we should massclaim then.
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Actually, let's get started with I'm a Mason with [REDACTED for now]. I'll reread the thread soon and if everyone is fine with that, we'll come up with a claiming order.
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Agreed that we should likely massclaim. That thing Teproc pulled yesterday was pretty scummy. Plus the D1 interaction with iguana - we should definitely investigate there.
Galzria's scenario is not quite as bad as it seems because if we mislynch, there is a chance we mislynch the Poisoner target. Also presumably we still have some PRs.
Yes, there are outs - but not reliable ones. We should be considered LyLo until the Poisoner Dies or something changes.
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Actually I have a hard time seeing a reason to keep it redacted. I'm a Mason with O.
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This feels really hopeless.
-
This feels really hopeless.
It's just lylo, with the benefit that if we land on the Poisoner we get out of lylo (is that right ? I think it is). It's not a great situation, but nothing unsurmountable, and I just reduced your lynchpool significantly, so there's that.
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This feels really hopeless.
Yes. I believe the inference should be D5 it can go to 4-3, but if neither POS or Skum get lynched today then POS gets to shoot N4, which would create a D5 of 2-2 which means we lose. I think.
It's just lylo, with the benefit that if we land on the Poisoner we get out of lylo (is that right ? I think it is). It's not a great situation, but nothing unsurmountable, and I just reduced your lynchpool significantly, so there's that.
This feels really hopeless.
I mean I would agree it looks grim, but unless you have a better idea it seems the priority right now should be to find and kill the Poioner, and a claim of some sort is going to reveal the most effective means of doing that.
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This feels really hopeless.
Yet we ought to try!
There is already more information: either O and Teproc are both scum, or they are both town. Useful!
Tentatively believing them, just because it would be kind of risky to tie yourself together like that, in case a tracker or a watcher has caught one of you, you both go down. Of course it's a great fakeclaim for scum otherwise. How realistic would it be for both O and Teproc to be scum and not have targeted anyone all game? Not at all, right?
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phone quoting sorry. you get it though.
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obviously confirm teprocs claim
have a couple soft hints but nothing substantial
pretty sure poisoner is a broken role and Robz did not correctly balance around it.
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I'm just saying:
1 VT mislynch
1 SK lynch
1 Mafia lynch
== Lylo is pretty bullshit
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It's going to be all the more glorious when we pull this off.
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Okay, I'll kick us off.
I have a result on Space. I think they should claim first.
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The case against Galzria:
Mafia have the most likelihood and tools to be able to fish out the incorrect LaLight claim.
Once Galzria knew with relative confidence that LL incorrectly claimed role, the VT-ness of claiming candidate is a somewhat free grab since he can guess with decent probably that the SK will be dead.
Galzria looks much scummier in retrospect than he did at the time with the Poisoner/II debate, as he was pretty effectively setting up the non-poisoner-but-scum lynch multiple days in.
Shoulda listened to Teproc.
PPE: Have to think about Eevees claim, but please no claiming until we have an established order
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We're in LyLo
2 minutes after flip. Possible for town-Galz to have pre-calculated this all, but scum Galz definitely would have.
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I'm just saying:
1 VT mislynch
1 SK lynch
1 Mafia lynch
== Lylo is pretty bullshit
I mean it sucks to be here, but also let's not get discouraged. If we happen to Lynch a Skum Poisoner today, then the last poison happens tomorrow so that would put us up at 5-2. We could still pull out of this!
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We're in LyLo
2 minutes after flip. Possible for town-Galz to have pre-calculated this all, but scum Galz definitely would have.
Scum Galz would've known it. Town Galz would've calculated it.
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The case against Galzria:
Mafia have the most likelihood and tools to be able to fish out the incorrect LaLight claim.
Once Galzria knew with relative confidence that LL incorrectly claimed role, the VT-ness of claiming candidate is a somewhat free grab since he can guess with decent probably that the SK will be dead.
Galzria looks much scummier in retrospect than he did at the time with the Poisoner/II debate, as he was pretty effectively setting up the non-poisoner-but-scum lynch multiple days in.
Shoulda listened to Teproc.
PPE: Have to think about Eevees claim, but please no claiming until we have an established order
Teproc himself admitted the case to be moot if Iguana was scum.
Regardless, Yes, you're correct that scum would've had more tools to figure out LL's claim was inaccurate. But I had enough knowing just my bid.
Your follow up argument doesn't logically follow however. LaLight made a mistake with his claim. If I'm Mafia, I know it to be simply that - and not a mixed up claim with a partner. Given that, I would have no indication that LaLight was the SK. As it happens that Gkrieg was also town, it's entirely possible that town!LaLight jailed SK Gkrieg. Or that town!LaLight effectively doctored town!Gkrieg. There would be no guarantee or likelihood of the SK being dead at all.
The last point is also moot. I could've stood by iguana or not. It was completely clear to anybody that regardless of my view, a Poisoner Kill was going to result in an iguana lynch. Arguing that I facilitated this or created it is simply inaccurate.
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Ok, so we ask for people to full claim (including bid, draft order and results) in this order
Space
Eevee
Galz
faust
Qvist
DatSwan
e
RR
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That said, I tentatively believe O/Teproc - providing mainly that somebody:
A) Doesn't counter claim them
B) Doesn't claim to have taken the Barracks
Scum -can't- take Masons. So the only way scum knows that's a safe claim is if they succeeded in taking Bomb (not the best scum role), or saw Mason in the Barracks and knew it wasn't chosen.
O/Teproc, did you get the bid from the slot, or the Barracks?
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If you really strongly feel than you don't want to claim results, claim all the rest and we can decide if we want results now or not. But most likely we do.
PPE: Don't think we're answering that, sorry.
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That said, I tentatively believe O/Teproc - providing mainly that somebody:
A) Doesn't counter claim them
B) Doesn't claim to have taken the Barracks
Scum -can't- take Masons. So the only way scum knows that's a safe claim is if they succeeded in taking Bomb (not the best scum role), or saw Mason in the Barracks and knew it wasn't chosen.
O/Teproc, did you get the bid from the slot, or the Barracks?
I don't think we need to answer that because in LYLO you only need to believe us more than you believe at least one other person. And I'd be hard pressed to think that isn't the case. So it's most beneficial for us to withhold all information.
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I'm good with the claim order.
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Actually, let's get started with I'm a Mason with [REDACTED for now]. I'll reread the thread soon and if everyone is fine with that, we'll come up with a claiming order.
I saw this, haven't read anything else after.
First thought: Yes!! Fake mason claim!
Next thought: I really hope he is actually a mason.
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I think we need to be weary of how much power we give the "masons" before they are verified, but I am good with the claim concept at this point
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I think we need to be weary of how much power we give the "masons" before they are verified, but I am good with the claim concept at this point
To reiterate my point to Galzria:
We're in LYLO. You don't have to fully trust that we didn't fakeclaim mason. The threshold is if you trust us more than you trust other people.
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I'm fine with the order but I didn't realize I was towny enough to go last.
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I'm fine with the order but I didn't realize I was towny enough to go last.
This is actually M100 and I'm so 100% confident that you're scum that it'd be pointless to make you claim earlier.
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I'm fine with the order but I didn't realize I was towny enough to go last.
This is actually M100 and I'm so 100% confident that you're scum that it'd be pointless to make you claim earlier.
Wait are you serious?
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I'm fine with the order but I didn't realize I was towny enough to go last.
This is actually M100 and I'm so 100% confident that you're scum that it'd be pointless to make you claim earlier.
Wait are you serious?
No.
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But overall there's not so much benefit for me or Teproc to put things in here over mason QT, so you don't get to know our reasons. I probably should have kept the Galz suspicion in there aswell..
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Actually.
According to Robz in /m45 of the Mafia QT prior to the reroll: Mafia will know what shows up in the Randoms regardless of whether or not they got the slot.
So, possibilities:
O/Tep are Scum:
- Scum went for and received Bomb, know Mason didn't appear in Random
- Scum went for and received Random, saw Mason there
- Scum saw Masons in the Random slots, along with a role now deceased, making it a safe claim
O/Tep are Town:
- Went for and received Mason from slot
- Went for Random and found Mason there
Both Town options are possible. The first and third scum options aren't terribly likely. The second is possible though.
-
Well a town bomb probably would've said something
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Well a town bomb probably would've said something
There's a lot of people who haven't posted, and besides, Mason can be in the randoms so it's not exactly a strong counter claim.
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I wish I was scum. I'd be pulling a stupidly unnecessary 2-scum-members-at-Lylo gambit that I'd love and winning the game.
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I wish I was scum. I'd be pulling a stupidly unnecessary 2-scum-members-at-Lylo gambit that I'd love and winning the game.
I don't really believe you are. But it's worth exploring anyway. Especially because we'll (likely) remain in this state of LyLo until the Poisoner is killed. It's a decent way to protect him for now, especially if we write lynching you two off the table for today. Would mean we have a 1-in-8 chance of not losing here and now, and even if we manage that the Poisoner would still get another shot.
It wouldn't be a bad play - and you're certainly crafty enough for it. But unless there's tracker results against you or a counter claim that makes sense then it's probably not gonna amount to more than speculation.
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Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Not to be too harsh on Robz, but I'm not getting why M100 had stronger town PRs and a 2shot vig and this one has an unlimited delayed (...more beneficial for scum than town modifier?) vig.
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Not to be too harsh on Robz, but I'm not getting why M100 had stronger town PRs and a 2shot vig and this one has an unlimited delayed (...more beneficial for scum than town modifier?) vig.
100 did as well - Inventor took one extra night to ramp but was otherwise the same (arguably stronger since you could direct who controlled the shot) - It's just nobody took it.
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Not to be too harsh on Robz, but I'm not getting why M100 had stronger town PRs and a 2shot vig and this one has an unlimited delayed (...more beneficial for scum than town modifier?) vig.
I do think it's too strong as designed though. Should be 2-shot at most.
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
I agree. No offense iguana, but this feels like a faust/galzria plan and iguana rolled goon and played up to the occasion.
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Not to be too harsh on Robz, but I'm not getting why M100 had stronger town PRs and a 2shot vig and this one has an unlimited delayed (...more beneficial for scum than town modifier?) vig.
I do think it's too strong as designed though. Should be 2-shot at most.
I think we shouldn't complain about supposed disadvantages and just lynch scum
-
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Not to be too harsh on Robz, but I'm not getting why M100 had stronger town PRs and a 2shot vig and this one has an unlimited delayed (...more beneficial for scum than town modifier?) vig.
I do think it's too strong as designed though. Should be 2-shot at most.
I think we shouldn't complain about supposed disadvantages and just lynch scum
I don't see why we can't aim to do both.
-
that's fair.
-
that's fair.
Obviously lynching scum must happen here. But O is correct that it's a little ridiculous to go:
- Town Lynch
- 1 NK
- SK Lynch
- 1 NK
- Mafia Lynch
- 2 NK
And be in LyLo now.
Yes... technically an SK Lynch isn't a Mafia Lynch, so you could argue we've "mislynched" two days in a row... But we also didn't have the SK kill N1, or the Mafia Kill N2. So... yeah. Kinda worn griping about.
-
Also, let's hurry up and claim.
-
Also, let's hurry up and claim.
Need Space
-
Well, while we wait, things on my mind:
- Scum probably have a Roleblocker. LaLight didn't die N1, which means scum weren't terribly afraid of his JK. This would incline me to believe they could block him already, but combined with the lack of SK kill N1, it's almost a certainty.
- Town has some sort of protective or preventative role. I can't really explain the lack of Mafia Kill N2 otherwise.
- Is it possible or worth considering any potential redirecting that could have happened in prior nights? It would be fantastic if scum got their poison last night redirected onto another scum - but that's almost certainly wishful thinking.
-
Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
-
Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
-
Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
-
Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
So... probably paranoia talking here, but this is a moderately good point at minimum
-
I am not surprised people didn't realize iguana wasn't the poisoner
-
I am not surprised town* didn't realize iguana wasn't the poisoner
Fixed
-
My paranoia says that faust came up with the whole poisoner thing. Very interested to see him claim goon here in iguanas spot
-
Ok, so we ask for people to full claim (including bid, draft order and results) in this order
Space
Eevee
Galz
faust
Qvist
DatSwan
e
RR
Also... after this I would also like to add you and O need to claim bid/position
-
Qvist, faust, X for scum
-
Qvist, faust, X for scum
Which, with the result on space, I could see that.
Actually, faust/space/X where X=(qvist, rr, datswan)
I don't think galzria is scum. At least, we don't want to lynch him today.
-
I am not surprised people didn't realize iguana wasn't the poisoner
One person, sure. But I'm quite surprised they didn't manage to realize it collectively. Especially Teproc. Doesn't seem like his MO to overlook something like that.
-
I am not surprised people didn't realize iguana wasn't the poisoner
One person, sure. But I'm quite surprised they didn't manage to realize it collectively. Especially Teproc. Doesn't seem like his MO to overlook something like that.
Yeah, but maybe being obvious to him they didn't talk about it? I don't know.
-
I don't think the masons are our lynch of choice at this point though
-
Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
So... probably paranoia talking here, but this is a moderately good point at minimum
I have actually changed my opinion on this slightly. Re read the short D3.
FWIW - O did not post at all from what I can see and at the end they were not voting either.
I think this makes it more likely that he was just not around for those hours and never spoke to Teproc (assuming they are Masons).
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Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
So... probably paranoia talking here, but this is a moderately good point at minimum
I have actually changed my opinion on this slightly. Re read the short D3.
FWIW - O did not post at all from what I can see and at the end they were not voting either.
I think this makes it more likely that he was just not around for those hours and never spoke to Teproc (assuming they are Masons).
I did not post in the mason QT during day 3 until this morning, at which point I read "we're at Lylo" and figured it out. Completely missed the third day because it happened so quickly.
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we're at LYLO being galzria's post, for the record. Not that it would matter if I claimed it was Teproc in the QT, but it wasnt.
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Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
So... probably paranoia talking here, but this is a moderately good point at minimum
I have actually changed my opinion on this slightly. Re read the short D3.
FWIW - O did not post at all from what I can see and at the end they were not voting either.
I think this makes it more likely that he was just not around for those hours and never spoke to Teproc (assuming they are Masons).
I did not post in the mason QT during day 3 until this morning, at which point I read "we're at Lylo" and figured it out. Completely missed the third day because it happened so quickly.
So... you didn't check there all of D3... or N3? Effectively, you didn't check the game for 3 days?
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Yeah, I think we played fairly well so far and still are in terrible spot.
I am pretty confident Galzria is town.
Eevee looks more and more scummy. The whole "not realizing that the Poisoner didn't get killed" sounded a bit forced, additionally to the whole weird different behaviour in comparism to the limited experience I have with him.
I also did not realize until today that the poisoner didn't die, if that means anything.
Really? Between you and Teproc that detail never came up?
So... probably paranoia talking here, but this is a moderately good point at minimum
I have actually changed my opinion on this slightly. Re read the short D3.
FWIW - O did not post at all from what I can see and at the end they were not voting either.
I think this makes it more likely that he was just not around for those hours and never spoke to Teproc (assuming they are Masons).
I did not post in the mason QT during day 3 until this morning, at which point I read "we're at Lylo" and figured it out. Completely missed the third day because it happened so quickly.
So... you didn't check there all of D3... or N3? Effectively, you didn't check the game for 3 days?
I checked the game and saw (and misread!) the flip. I did skip out on Mason QT during that time, in which there's a very neglected Teproc dutifully keeping me up to date with a full page of content.
I did get yelled at for this.
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So... Here's where it falls through for me. And maybe I'm wrong. But I just find it hard to believe that you guys wouldn't have noticed the flip - even if you weren't there during the lynch, the Mason QT never closes. So you could have (and I can't believe that you wouldn't have) continued discussing at night.
----------
"Masons -- Jin and Sun Kwon
You are a Mason!
After the draft is finished, a random Vanilla Crash Survivor will become a fellow Mason. (If there are no VTs left, which is technically possible though unlikely, a random townie with a PR will be chosen. This townie will retain that PR and become a Mason.) You are confirmed town to each other. You will receive a QT with this player. This QT remains open at all times."
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I noticed, but O really didn't show up at all in the mason QT in all of rhe Day3/Night3 cycle. I had him prodded even.
Yes, O and I will ful claim at the end.
I don't see whu e and Gal are so bent o telling scim exactly what they're expecting.
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Phoneposting: I am not great at it.
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So... Here's where it falls through for me. And maybe I'm wrong. But I just find it hard to believe that you guys wouldn't have noticed the flip - even if you weren't there during the lynch, the Mason QT never closes. So you could have (and I can't believe that you wouldn't have) continued discussing at night.
----------
"Masons -- Jin and Sun Kwon
You are a Mason!
After the draft is finished, a random Vanilla Crash Survivor will become a fellow Mason. (If there are no VTs left, which is technically possible though unlikely, a random townie with a PR will be chosen. This townie will retain that PR and become a Mason.) You are confirmed town to each other. You will receive a QT with this player. This QT remains open at all times."
Scum!Galz thinking he senses weakness and going for the kill...?
1. What incentive does scum!O have to make this crap up? Like actually what am I doing, defending poisoner!Eevee?
2. It was 4 days including a weekend. I wasn't V/LA per se, but I had shit to do and the QT wasn't exactly on the top of my mind.
3. Since I am a mason, and not scum, I also have access to day chat. This makes night conversations substantially less important... anything I can say at night can be said with pretty much as effectiveness during the day, since we aren't PRs.
More effective, actually since we have the flip in the day... no use embarrassing myself with middle-of-the-night scum predictions like Teproc has ;D when I can wait for the flips and have him be entirely wrong.
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I think galzria is townie pushing back on o like he is. As someone who has had a shared at (as scum) it is perfectly normal that a player just kind of.... ignores that qt. I don't see anything uber suspicious about O through the whole process
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I don't see whu e and Gal are so bent o telling scim exactly what they're expecting.
I don't have a mason at to theorize in, so I theorize in the main thread.
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I do not think the supposed Masons should get away with claiming last.
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I want whoever of them actually bid for the thing to claim bid and draft order as soon as possible.
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I want whoever of them actually bid for the thing to claim bid and draft order as soon as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw
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On a more serious note: go ahead and make the case for scum!Teproc/o. Bear in mind that there is a Poisoner targeting someone every night and iguana probably wasn't doing the kills, right ? And Tracker, Watcher and Rolecop are all things in this setup.
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I don't see whu e and Gal are so bent o telling scim exactly what they're expecting.
I don't have a mason at to theorize in, so I theorize in the main thread.
I'd rather you waited for the massclaim to happen first. You have a QT. Have fun theorizing there in the meantime. Or discuss the possibility of O and I being scum, the sooner we get all of that out of the way the better.
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Could the poisoner have killed and poisoned, or not?
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I don't see whu e and Gal are so bent o telling scim exactly what they're expecting.
I don't have a mason at to theorize in, so I theorize in the main thread.
I'd rather you waited for the massclaim to happen first. You have a QT. Have fun theorizing there in the meantime. Or discuss the possibility of O and I being scum, the sooner we get all of that out of the way the better.
Meh, I think you two are town.
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Could the poisoner have killed and poisoned, or not?
Based on the setup, yes. I haven't asked the mod that specific question though
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On a more serious note: go ahead and make the case for scum!Teproc/o. Bear in mind that there is a Poisoner targeting someone every night and iguana probably wasn't doing the kills, right ? And Tracker, Watcher and Rolecop are all things in this setup.
I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on me here. You are asking us to clear to players as town in LyLo. You should do everything in your power to prove yourselves as town.
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On a more serious note: go ahead and make the case for scum!Teproc/o. Bear in mind that there is a Poisoner targeting someone every night and iguana probably wasn't doing the kills, right ? And Tracker, Watcher and Rolecop are all things in this setup.
I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on me here. You are asking us to clear to players as town in LyLo. You should do everything in your power to prove yourselves as town.
I have done that by claiming Mason before anything else happened. It's hard for me to imagine scenarios where we're that comfortable doing that as scum and yet could be tripped by having to claim bid/draft order first. I can however envision scenarios where scum would want to have that information before having to claim themselves.
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On a more serious note: go ahead and make the case for scum!Teproc/o. Bear in mind that there is a Poisoner targeting someone every night and iguana probably wasn't doing the kills, right ? And Tracker, Watcher and Rolecop are all things in this setup.
I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on me here. You are asking us to clear to players as town in LyLo. You should do everything in your power to prove yourselves as town.
I have done that by claiming Mason before anything else happened. It's hard for me to imagine scenarios where we're that comfortable doing that as scum and yet could be tripped by having to claim bid/draft order first. I can however envision scenarios where scum would want to have that information before having to claim themselves.
You have claimed Mason yes, but if I recall correctly you did not want O to claim just yet.
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Sorry I wasn't able to get to this last night. I'm now dipping in briefly on my lunch break to try to catch up, and then I should be back properly late in the evening, like 23.30 my time (18.30 forum time).
I'm the Watcher. In case it wasn't obvious from earlier in the game, I bid 16, which was why I specifically asked LL to re-check his bid when he claimed #16. I came in at #3, so it was highly unlikely for him to be at #6 with the same bid. I assumed Galz was also thinking along those lines when he was so suspicious of LL, too.
My night targets were faust, Galz and then Galz again. Two people targeted Galz on the middle night of those three: gkrieg and Qvist. Nobody targeted faust N1 or Galz last night.
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Alright. Eevee up next.
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I think I believe space here. But need to hear eevee's claim first
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I'm the Tracker. My number was 5, got draft position #13. I bid for the same thing than before the reroll, and this time got the role.
My targets were:
N1: Tracked e, got no result. (Either blocked or e didn't visit anyone. Inclined to feel towny on e because of that, most of the scum team are going to use some kind of a role, although a ninja kill is of a possibility. At the very least e is confirmed non-poisoner, so should be off the lynchpool for today.)
N2: Tracked Qvist, who visited e, DatSwan, Eevee, Galzria, Iguana, Teproc (That's the candidates, meaning Qvist is the protector of the island, explaining the missing nightkill, confirmed town.)
N3: Tracked Space, who visited Galzria. (Maybe the poisoner? Or maybe the watcher. I don't know.)
Noteworthy from Space's claim, if it's true, Galzria was redirected on N2. (If he did something that night.)
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This claiming thing has been very productive so far it would seem
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The other role in the watcher - slot is investigation immune, how likely would mafia take watcher over that? Is there any way scum could know about Qvist using his role the night he did unless they had a watcher?
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Also, eevee's result on space was very anticlimacticly town
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As for my choices, I just picked people I thought to be vaguely suspicious but not so much that scum would expect them to be targeted, hoping to catch someone doing the kill. I figured scum would assume there's a tracker in the mix.
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Galz
faust
Qvist
DatSwan
e
RR
How the proposed claim order continues.
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... how does that constitute an incriminating result ?
At this point I'll wait for Qvist to confirm before doing anything else I think.
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And by confirming I mean role only.
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... how does that constitute an incriminating result ?
At this point I'll wait for Qvist to confirm before doing anything else I think.
I just said I have a result! It could have been incrimating if they claimed to have targeted someone else or no one. I wanted to be as vague as possible to make it harder for the possible poisoner to craft a lie (not knowing what my result might be). Maybe I should have bluffed that the result was from some earlier night.
Space, why'd you pick the people you did?
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... how does that constitute an incriminating result ?
At this point I'll wait for Qvist to confirm before doing anything else I think.
Actually scratch that. Obviously Qvist will confirm, so let's proceed with Galz.
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Yep, I confirm.
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Space, why'd you pick the people you did?
Well, faust would have a totally unsurprising NK, so I watched him N1. With Galz, he'd given away that he's highly-placed in the ranking order, because he probably also bid 16 in order to know how unlikely it was for LL to bid 16 and get #6.. so I expect him to be #4 or higher, given that I'm at #3. If he's also town, that makes him a decent target (assuming scum have enough info by sharing their bids that they can work out likelihoods like that too), so I thought I'd watch him. And then I watched again because he'd been targeted when there was a missing scum kill.
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Yep, I confirm.
Right. I'm curious, why did you hammer iguana ? A scum Protector was really the only reason to quicklynch.
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Uhm what Teproc? You were the one who told me I should.
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Love all the memes. But obviously going to vote for ii, but before I do, is there anything that could save him beside the Protector of the Island?
No. Vote now.
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Uhm what Teproc? You were the one who told me I should.
Well yes, because I was worried about a scum!POTI. You knew that wasn't a thing though.
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As I was the Protector, I couldn't see a reason why I shouldn't.
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I'm confused.
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It was obvious he was scum right. He didn't try to hide. So why I should I not vote?
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Well, quicklynching is not usually great. I was arguing for it because I feared a scum!POTI, but otherwise it's better to leave everyone the time to check in, discuss the possibility of a mass claim etc., even if the lynch is obvious.
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I mean what else should I have done? Wait until scum on the possible wagon unvotes?
Claiming POTI?
All seems terrible. Of course I vote.
And you now questioning the choice although you told me to do the exact thing is really... not sure how to describe ... surprising me.
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Claiming is probably what I'd have done yeah. Not sure why that'd be terrible, you're just a named VT at this point.
I'm tyring to figure out why you did that because I'm thinking about the conspiracy theories. I do think you're extremly likely to be town.
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Because I rather want scum to NK me than a PR. Claiming seems not great, if I can just hammer and guarantee to kill one of the others. It didn't even come to my mind that he wouldn't be Poisoner.
That is my thinking, but I might be of course terrible wrong as I don't have a lot of experience.
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I guess I put you in the awkward position of (soft)claim or hammer. You might be right that hammering was the right call out of those two.
I think this puts you last in claiming order by the way (if faust cares I'm fine with us claiming our draft order/bid before you), whihc means the order is now
Galz
faust
DatSwan
e
RR
Qvist/Teproc/O
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As the other Candidates (and scum) know already, I bid 42.
I ended up with Draft #4, which is very difficult to do unless I was a unique bid. My suspicion of LL's claim came from the fact that it was highly unlikely for me to be a Unique Lost at Draft #4, and him to be a (presumably) Double-Lost at #6. It meant there was at absolute most one single unique non-Lost number bid, and no Double-Losr's lower than 16, and he would've needed the better of the coin flip. Just wasn't likely.
Anyway, as with the first time around, I bid Poisoner. As I'm a player who does not believe in a Vig firing as town, but recognize I'm generally in the minority, I wanted it to sit on unused. I figured I lost the bid to WW last game (he was #4), so I had a decent chance at getting it this game. Obviously I failed and am VT, making my potential sacrifice to a SK earlier less harmful than other kills he could've gotten.
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I don't have a problem with how qvist played his role.
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faust now.
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I don't have a problem with how qvist played his role.
I don't think it matters how he played it? I mean, in what scenario does scum take that role by choice? Further, I don't see any advantage whatsoever to scum firing it the night he did. Unless the whole thing is a scam that him and Eevee are trying to pull off (ridiculously unlikely), then I don't see how Qvist makes sense as scum.
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faust now.
You first.
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Or O, depending on who went for Mason.
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Vote: faust.
Lynch scum, finish claiming tomorrow
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Or O, depending on who went for Mason.
Teproc went for mason
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
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Or O, depending on who went for Mason.
Teproc went for mason
Or O, but my money is on teproc
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I think Qvist, teproc, and O are all town. I think it is likely that eevee and space are both town, but possibly one is scum.
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
Because if you do, we can ask him to order things if you want.
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The longer faust holds out the more convinced I am that he is scum. But then... it won't take much to convince me at this point.
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I think Qvist is town, Teproc and O most likely town, e is towny ( the non - targeting and general behavior, especially today).
Space, I'm leaning town, but not sure. If they are scum, it needs to be a scum watcher, right?
Left with
RR, faust, DatSwan, Galzria
out of whom I'd be interested in lynching now, pending claims (and claims that might counterclaim Space).
I would say that of the four, Galzria is towniest. I pegged him for a VT already when he offered up his candidacy earlier, although could be a scum long con. Just in general he's been snappier than usual in this game (in my opinion), which is a trait I'd more connect to town.
RR has been super scummy, his "this feels desperate" and nothing else rings really hollow. I hadn't really been considering Swan much until now, which I guess is exactly what scum would want.
Something's up with faust and the claims, interested to see where this goes. If there is a deadlock, having Qvist decide who claims and when seems fair and good. He is the towniest guy around.
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Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....
If iguana is scum, then there is no guarantee that he is actually the Poisoner. It could be a teammate. Though that would require very quick thinking there on parts of both scum!iguana and his partner.
Reading faust. Interesting
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So my reread of faust did nothing to convince me he is town. Based on my experience in M98 with faust where I <i>knew</i> he was lying scum but still had a hard time nailing him down, I think in this situation (with the amount of PoE, etc) we are in the burden of proof is on faust to prove he is town
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So my reread of faust did nothing to convince me he is town. Based on my experience in M98 with faust where I <i>knew</i> he was lying scum but still had a hard time nailing him down, I think in this situation (with the amount of PoE, etc) we are in the burden of proof is on faust to prove he is town
Haha, italicizing error. That's why I usually also select the text and press the little italics button
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So my reread of faust did nothing to convince me he is town. Based on my experience in M98 with faust where I <i>knew</i> he was lying scum but still had a hard time nailing him down, I think in this situation (with the amount of PoE, etc) we are in the burden of proof is on faust to prove he is town
Can you explain what your PoE is or should I wait for your claim?
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
I don't have much of a read on Qvist, but using his power N2 seems townie. We had fewer kills then than were to be expected, right?
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I'm inclined to believe both Space and Eevee.
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10 alive, 3 scum:
Galzria
2.71828..... - me
Teproc - mason
Datswan
Eevee
Qvist - protector of the island
RoadRunner
faust
SpaceAnemone
O - mason
6 left, still 3 scum:
Space and eevee have claims that make perfect sense, it didn't mean one or both aren't scum, but I really think at most one is scum, so let's say
4 left, 2 scum:
Galzria having draft position 4 and pulling VT is either extremely townie or scum who knows they picked poisoner draft #1 and wants to hide his real role. Lean town
3 left, 2 scum:
Faust
RR
Datswan
Good enough PoE?
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I think eevee is especially town because of the hype over a result that doesn't tell us anything
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Something's up with faust and the claims, interested to see where this goes. If there is a deadlock, having Qvist decide who claims and when seems fair and good. He is the towniest guy around.
No, if there is a deadlock we lynch faust
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
I don't have much of a read on Qvist, but using his power N2 seems townie. We had fewer kills then than were to be expected, right?
Yes.
I see you evaded my question so:
Will you agree to a claiming order dictated by Qvist ?
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
I don't have much of a read on Qvist, but using his power N2 seems townie. We had fewer kills then than were to be expected, right?
Yes.
I see you evaded my question so:
Will you agree to a claiming order dictated by Qvist ?
Why are we being so kind to him? e + roadrunner agreed to the order before the claim started. Eevee, space, Qvist seem to have all at least partially agreed to the order by result of claiming (partially, for Qvist).
At least 7/10 of us have signed on to the claiming order. If Faust refuses to go along with 7/10 of us, that's really on Faust.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
I mean, it's entirely possible I'm missing something, but his stance seems off for scum given our situation. I would be more inclined to believe they would be trying -not- to make waves. /shrug
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
Stalling us, mostly, but also they might want to clear other safe claims for themselves. I don't know. Town!faust's main fear is what, that O and I are scum ? He can think that all he wants, but I don't see why I'd indulge him and do something that I think has a chance of ghelping scum just because he's being difficult.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
Stalling us, mostly, but also they might want to clear other safe claims for themselves. I don't know. Town!faust's main fear is what, that O and I are scum ? He can think that all he wants, but I don't see why I'd indulge him and do something that I think has a chance of ghelping scum just because he's being difficult.
Like, even if faust is town, clearly his stance is that claiming order does matter here, right ? This is not just a faust v Teprov/O situation. I agree that the order matters, this is why we agreed on a claiming order, one that he's the only person in the game rejecting.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
Stalling us, mostly, but also they might want to clear other safe claims for themselves. I don't know. Town!faust's main fear is what, that O and I are scum ? He can think that all he wants, but I don't see why I'd indulge him and do something that I think has a chance of ghelping scum just because he's being difficult.
Yeah, I don't have a great town!Faust explanation either. The stance just seems more personally damaging as scum than town.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
Stalling us, mostly, but also they might want to clear other safe claims for themselves. I don't know. Town!faust's main fear is what, that O and I are scum ? He can think that all he wants, but I don't see why I'd indulge him and do something that I think has a chance of ghelping scum just because he's being difficult.
Yeah, I don't have a great town!Faust explanation either. The stance just seems more personally damaging as scum than town.
We're all in agreement. The best solution is that Faust swallows his pride and claims. The best solution is emphatically not to lynch Faust, but that is a solution if Faust actually refuses to concede that he's not the towniest person around here.
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Yeah, I agree as well.
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Alright, well we can have everyone state whether or not they agree that faust should claim now.
There's me, O, Eevee and e.
Galz ? Qvist ? Others ?
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
Why don't you tell me why they are town? I mean I can tell you why I think Teproc is scum, and that is because of his early collaboration with iguana and because of how he tried to shut down all discussion D3 based on a super flimsy edge-case scenario.
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I don't see why scum!Faust would fight the claiming so hard. It's not like he wouldn't have a perfectly viable fakeclaim from whatever bid/position Iguana was. That would've been the whole idea behind scum flipping the draft claims anyway.
Stalling us, mostly, but also they might want to clear other safe claims for themselves. I don't know. Town!faust's main fear is what, that O and I are scum ? He can think that all he wants, but I don't see why I'd indulge him and do something that I think has a chance of ghelping scum just because he's being difficult.
Well you can stop the stalling right now!
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faust now.
You first.
Not happening. Do you believe Qvist is town ?
I don't have much of a read on Qvist, but using his power N2 seems townie. We had fewer kills then than were to be expected, right?
Yes.
I see you evaded my question so:
Will you agree to a claiming order dictated by Qvist ?
Fine.
-
Will you?
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Before we let Qvist reorder, I think we should get input from all 9/10 of us to see whether or not we should force Faust to go with this order under threat of lynch.
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Before we let Qvist reorder, I think we should get input from all 9/10 of us to see whether or not we should force Faust to go with this order under threat of lynch.
Uh that guy is stalling, maybe we should lynch him!
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Please everyone give their input on whether we should force O to not force me to claim!
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Please everyone give their input on whether we should force O to not force me to claim!
Nice
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faust, why did I do the POTI thing if I'm scum ?
I'd be fine with a Qvist order, yes.
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
Why don't you tell me why they are town? I mean I can tell you why I think Teproc is scum, and that is because of his early collaboration with iguana and because of how he tried to shut down all discussion D3 based on a super flimsy edge-case scenario.
LaLight was the person who proposed that the poisoner claim I believe. You advocated to not lynch iguana. Try again
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Also, that whole shutting down of conversation to quicklynch is townie since iguana was scum
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Before we let Qvist reorder, I think we should get input from all 9/10 of us to see whether or not we should force Faust to go with this order under threat of lynch.
But yeah, I agree with faust. This is unnecessary. faust just needs to claim
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
Why don't you tell me why they are town? I mean I can tell you why I think Teproc is scum, and that is because of his early collaboration with iguana and because of how he tried to shut down all discussion D3 based on a super flimsy edge-case scenario.
LaLight was the person who proposed that the poisoner claim I believe. You advocated to not lynch iguana. Try again
I did propose the POisoner claim.
I still think it was beneficial for town btw. We got a free scum lynch out of it. It increased our odds of actually lynching the Poisoner, and didn't decrease our odds of lynching scum since iguana was a Candidate anyway and wouldn'"t have been lynched. It might have messed some PRs up, but so far it doesn't look like it.
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faust, care to comment on my PoE or do you reject it out of hand since you think teproc and O are scum
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Also, that whole shutting down of conversation to quicklynch is townie since iguana was scum
I'm constantly surprised, but you'll find that this isn't a consensus opinion. I will say that, while I agree people shouldn't say much on days where the lynch is obvious, there is a cost for not waiting for everyone to show up: gkrieg might have claimed for example.
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
Why don't you tell me why they are town? I mean I can tell you why I think Teproc is scum, and that is because of his early collaboration with iguana and because of how he tried to shut down all discussion D3 based on a super flimsy edge-case scenario.
LaLight was the person who proposed that the poisoner claim I believe. You advocated to not lynch iguana. Try again
I did propose the POisoner claim.
I still think it was beneficial for town btw. We got a free scum lynch out of it. It increased our odds of actually lynching the Poisoner, and didn't decrease our odds of lynching scum since iguana was a Candidate anyway and wouldn'"t have been lynched. It might have messed some PRs up, but so far it doesn't look like it.
I guess it can't have increased our odds of lynching the Poisoner by that logic, but it didn't decrease them in any case.
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Alternatively, faust, instead of proving why you are town, prove why my PoE is bad...i.e...why the masons are scum
Why don't you tell me why they are town? I mean I can tell you why I think Teproc is scum, and that is because of his early collaboration with iguana and because of how he tried to shut down all discussion D3 based on a super flimsy edge-case scenario.
LaLight was the person who proposed that the poisoner claim I believe. You advocated to not lynch iguana. Try again
I did propose the POisoner claim.
I still think it was beneficial for town btw. We got a free scum lynch out of it. It increased our odds of actually lynching the Poisoner, and didn't decrease our odds of lynching scum since iguana was a Candidate anyway and wouldn'"t have been lynched. It might have messed some PRs up, but so far it doesn't look like it.
Oh, ok. I still think my claiming plan was better than your poisoner claim.
Also, faust wanted to pull out the 2- shot redirector along with the poisoner
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Yes, and the Redirector turned out to be town, whaddayaknow.
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I kind of don't understand why skum!Faust would fight this so hard. Like Galz said, he had like the perfect set up for the situation...
It is a "week long day", the hell good is "stalling" going to do in this situation.
I think that he should claim, as I think everyone should claim. However, I am not opposed to the order be dictated by the most likely Town player, which I believe to be Qivst at this point.
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Right, re: Poisoner claiming. Think about it.
Scum had the plan of "we'll have our Goon claim #1 in the draft and Poisoner, which he can argue was to block it from town and if he fails to convince people, well at least we didn't lynch our poisoner".
Why would they want iguana to claim D1 exactly ? I'm truly curious why you think that is faust ? The direct result of that claim was that we lynched iguana on D3. Now granted, that does mean we didn't lynch the poisoner on D3 which, if there had been no claiming at all, we would have had a chance to... but based on what ? We would have nothing more to go on than we ended up having, since our (well, you know) investigative powers didn't go for iguana anyway.
So having the poisoner claim on D1 meant we gave up a tiny chance of lynching the poisoner on D3 in exchange for the certainty of a scum lynch. Poisoner is integral to scum's gameplan, true, but I don't think that's such a good deal for scum that your suspicion of me in the face of what would be very improbably Mason fakeclaim is warranted.
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It's possible scum didn't have that plan and iguana brilliantly improvised it, I suppose, but then I don't see why me proposing it is scummy either.
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Before we let Qvist reorder, I think we should get input from all 9/10 of us to see whether or not we should force Faust to go with this order under threat of lynch.
But yeah, I agree with faust. This is unnecessary. faust just needs to claim
Agree with O? Current sentence doesn't parse.
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I kind of don't understand why skum!Faust would fight this so hard. Like Galz said, he had like the perfect set up for the situation...
It is a "week long day", the hell good is "stalling" going to do in this situation.
I think that he should claim, as I think everyone should claim. However, I am not opposed to the order be dictated by the most likely Town player, which I believe to be Qivst at this point.
See, it's working for him.
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Before we let Qvist reorder, I think we should get input from all 9/10 of us to see whether or not we should force Faust to go with this order under threat of lynch.
But yeah, I agree with faust. This is unnecessary. faust just needs to claim
Agree with O? Current sentence doesn't parse.
It was more in reaction to faust's next post where he asked for a majority of people to agree that we need a majority of people to....etc. at some point you don't need consensus, you need action. That's what I was going for
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Please everyone give their input on whether we should force O to not force me to claim!
This post ^^
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I kind of don't understand why skum!Faust would fight this so hard. Like Galz said, he had like the perfect set up for the situation...
It is a "week long day", the hell good is "stalling" going to do in this situation.
I think that he should claim, as I think everyone should claim. However, I am not opposed to the order be dictated by the most likely Town player, which I believe to be Qivst at this point.
Stalling is still a thing on week-long days, by the way. We're all here and engaged right now. We might not be in two days. I know I'll be V/LA this week-end, and people are generally less active then. The longer the claiming process takes, the better for scum. I mean this is lylo, we can't afford to have a rushed lynch.
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And bear in mind that faust, if he's scum, could be relatively fine with being lynched if he's not the Poisoner. So yeah, it's not hard for me at all to envision scum!faust narratives here. It's certainly not hard to see town ones as well, certainly.
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I kind of don't understand why skum!Faust would fight this so hard. Like Galz said, he had like the perfect set up for the situation...
It is a "week long day", the hell good is "stalling" going to do in this situation.
I think that he should claim, as I think everyone should claim. However, I am not opposed to the order be dictated by the most likely Town player, which I believe to be Qivst at this point.
Stalling is still a thing on week-long days, by the way. We're all here and engaged right now. We might not be in two days. I know I'll be V/LA this week-end, and people are generally less active then. The longer the claiming process takes, the better for scum. I mean this is lylo, we can't afford to have a rushed lynch.
Fair enough. I do not understand how the order is being picked completely, but if it helps I volunteer to go next if it helps keep things moving or whatever.
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I kind of don't understand why skum!Faust would fight this so hard. Like Galz said, he had like the perfect set up for the situation...
It is a "week long day", the hell good is "stalling" going to do in this situation.
I think that he should claim, as I think everyone should claim. However, I am not opposed to the order be dictated by the most likely Town player, which I believe to be Qivst at this point.
Stalling is still a thing on week-long days, by the way. We're all here and engaged right now. We might not be in two days. I know I'll be V/LA this week-end, and people are generally less active then. The longer the claiming process takes, the better for scum. I mean this is lylo, we can't afford to have a rushed lynch.
Fair enough. I do not understand how the order is being picked completely, but if it helps I volunteer to go next if it helps keep things moving or whatever.
Mostly in order of most scummy to least, though obviously we put Space and Eevee first because there was already a claiming situation there, and also it was a consensus between two people with different reads. If you want to claim earlier, you're free to do so, but you should consider how much the information you'd be giving away may help scum.
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10 alive, 3 scum:
Galzria
2.71828..... - me
Teproc - mason
Datswan
Eevee
Qvist - protector of the island
RoadRunner
faust
SpaceAnemone
O - mason
6 left, still 3 scum:
Space and eevee have claims that make perfect sense, it didn't mean one or both aren't scum, but I really think at most one is scum, so let's say
4 left, 2 scum:
Galzria having draft position 4 and pulling VT is either extremely townie or scum who knows they picked poisoner draft #1 and wants to hide his real role. Lean town
3 left, 2 scum:
Faust
RR
Datswan
Good enough PoE?
Since e wanted me to comment on this:
Qvist is probably townie enough to not be lynched or reread today. Space and Eevee... I can see the logic there. I don't think scum went for Tracker and Watcher. I have not thought through whether their claims could be faked. I don't think getting a VT at position 4 is especially townie. So some things look decent here, others not.
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Also, that whole shutting down of conversation to quicklynch is townie since iguana was scum
And that has nothing to do with anything; how exactly did it help town?
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We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
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We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
I agree.
Also faust isn't interesting in arguing with me re: his arguments for me being scum. Do you actually think I'm scum faust ?
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Right, re: Poisoner claiming. Think about it.
Scum had the plan of "we'll have our Goon claim #1 in the draft and Poisoner, which he can argue was to block it from town and if he fails to convince people, well at least we didn't lynch our poisoner".
Why would they want iguana to claim D1 exactly ? I'm truly curious why you think that is faust ? The direct result of that claim was that we lynched iguana on D3. Now granted, that does mean we didn't lynch the poisoner on D3 which, if there had been no claiming at all, we would have had a chance to... but based on what ? We would have nothing more to go on than we ended up having, since our (well, you know) investigative powers didn't go for iguana anyway.
So having the poisoner claim on D1 meant we gave up a tiny chance of lynching the poisoner on D3 in exchange for the certainty of a scum lynch. Poisoner is integral to scum's gameplan, true, but I don't think that's such a good deal for scum that your suspicion of me in the face of what would be very improbably Mason fakeclaim is warranted.
Not ignoring this, but answering will take longer than I have time for right now.
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
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We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
Any reads? Which claims do you believe and which not?
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We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
Any reads? Which claims do you believe and which not?
I believe you, Space and Qvist, and it's not all based on what's happened in the thread.
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
That's not really acceptable. There's no reason not to question it. Have you gone back and reread them? Do you have reason to just accept their claim? Why so willing to throw in the towel if they're scum?
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
That's not really acceptable. There's no reason not to question it. Have you gone back and reread them? Do you have reason to just accept their claim? Why so willing to throw in the towel if they're scum?
I feel like their claim is a lot more likely coming from town than from scum, I feel like we're at an enormous disadvantage right now, and I don't feel like lynching a mason to lose the game on D4. If they're both alive in a few days, we can look back on it, and I phrased myself badly. But I'm not lynching them today.
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Also. Everyone please remember. Believing eevee and space and even galzria about their claims is independent of whether they are scum or not.
Masons are explicitly town, so believing that claim does make them town
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
That's not really acceptable. There's no reason not to question it. Have you gone back and reread them? Do you have reason to just accept their claim? Why so willing to throw in the towel if they're scum?
I feel like their claim is a lot more likely coming from town than from scum, I feel like we're at an enormous disadvantage right now, and I don't feel like lynching a mason to lose the game on D4. If they're both alive in a few days, we can look back on it, and I phrased myself badly. But I'm not lynching them today.
We don't have "a few days", unless we lynch the Poisoner today. Even if we lynch any other member of the Mafia team, we're still in LyLo tomorrow. At that point there would be just 2 scum left. There is no scenario outside lynching Poisoner today where they are both alive and we are still playing "in a few days".
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
That's not really acceptable. There's no reason not to question it. Have you gone back and reread them? Do you have reason to just accept their claim? Why so willing to throw in the towel if they're scum?
I feel like their claim is a lot more likely coming from town than from scum, I feel like we're at an enormous disadvantage right now, and I don't feel like lynching a mason to lose the game on D4. If they're both alive in a few days, we can look back on it, and I phrased myself badly. But I'm not lynching them today.
We don't have "a few days", unless we lynch the Poisoner today. Even if we lynch any other member of the Mafia team, we're still in LyLo tomorrow. At that point there would be just 2 scum left. There is no scenario outside lynching Poisoner today where they are both alive and we are still playing "in a few days".
Oops got me there
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Also, that whole shutting down of conversation to quicklynch is townie since iguana was scum
And that has nothing to do with anything; how exactly did it help town?
How did lynching scum help town. Let me count the ways....
But primarily it forced scum to act fast. Would all the scum immediately jump on their partner. It is "townie" to sit around and talk about things. Look at what we are doing here.
Also, given everything (especially if you believe that qvist is telling the truth) town, not scum, are worried about a potential protector of the island. Since (assuming Qvist is town) scum knows they did not have that role. I doubt quicklynching based on that role was thought about. Probably more of a, "well, lynching iguana is going to happen...everyone can bus but let's look townie doing it" conversation.
I just think D3 was a very strong town play from teproc
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OK since I am next in line and we are worried about being stalled.
Does anyone have an objection to keeping the claiming going?
Faust - Just to be clear, what is it that you are opposed to exactly? Claiming at all, or just the order that has been drafted for you?
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I'm absolutely not fine with letting Faust claim bidding info last. It seems incredibly obvious that that enables him to massage the bidding numbers if he so chooses, and he's actually one of the scummier people around anyways.
Faust has yet to even make a case against me and has failed to argue convincingly why me and teproc should have to fully claim before he even partially claims.
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Just to be clear I was not saying he should bid last. I thought the idea of Qivst choosing was a good one. I actually do no have an issue with the current order either, I just would rather find a fair middle ground before this becomes a late in the day town vs town situation and we are screwed.
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Just to be clear I was not saying he should bid last. I thought the idea of Qivst choosing was a good one. I actually do no have an issue with the current order either, I just would rather find a fair middle ground before this becomes a late in the day town vs town situation and we are screwed.
Actually you're right, I don't think Qvist will do that anyways and if Qvist does do that there's some interesting verification going on. So sure, I'd agree to Qvist ordering the remaining claims.
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
And scum hammer to win the game?
That was my whole point about getting 9/10 people willing to lynch him instead of actually lynching...
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
And scum hammer to win the game?
That was my whole point about getting 9/10 people willing to lynch him instead of actually lynching...
I would probably lynch him. I want time to get to some rereads first, but I've mentioned before that he's felt off this game. 9/10 means you're expectations is that both his partners state willingness to bus? We need 6 to lynch, which is (without scum helping) 6/7 townies together.
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Your*, not you're. Autocorrect.
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
And scum hammer to win the game?
That was my whole point about getting 9/10 people willing to lynch him instead of actually lynching...
I would probably lynch him. I want time to get to some rereads first, but I've mentioned before that he's felt off this game. 9/10 means you're expectations is that both his partners state willingness to bus? We need 6 to lynch, which is (without scum helping) 6/7 townies together.
I mean my expectation is that he'd claim before getting lynched, so yea, I would expect the other 2 to not necessarily stick their necks out here if he's scum.
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Quick check-in here before sleep. I absolutely agree that claiming should go ahead.
I think Qvist is almost certainly town, and that there's a high chance the mason people are too. People seem to be townreading Galz surprisingly quickly without significant evidence.
I've been looking at wagons and stuff, trying to pin likelihoods on the rest of the lynchpool, which I think is Galz, e, DatSwan, Eevee, RR and faust. I can write up a series of observations tomorrow at lunchbreak probably, but it's all frustratingly inconclusive. If anyone wants votings stats of any particular type, feel free to ask, and I'll try to oblige if it's something I can pull out of my vote-counter easily enough.
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Quick check-in here before sleep. I absolutely agree that claiming should go ahead.
I think Qvist is almost certainly town, and that there's a high chance the mason people are too. People seem to be townreading Galz surprisingly quickly without significant evidence.
I've been looking at wagons and stuff, trying to pin likelihoods on the rest of the lynchpool, which I think is Galz, e, DatSwan, Eevee, RR and faust. I can write up a series of observations tomorrow at lunchbreak probably, but it's all frustratingly inconclusive. If anyone wants votings stats of any particular type, feel free to ask, and I'll try to oblige if it's something I can pull out of my vote-counter easily enough.
stahp pseudo lurking and help hold Faust's feet over the fire so he actually claims.
And yes, Qvist is very likely town. At the least A) His claimed role is the easiest to assume is town, after mason and B) His claimed role is assumed true unless Eevee flips scum, so lynching him is at the very bottom of the pile.
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Sorry, I was busy, what am I supposed to do?
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Oh claiming order. Let me think about this for a few secs.
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
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Sadly he is offlne, but he should be claiming as soon as he comes back or I am voting straight for him.
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His next time of activity is usually around 6 hours from now.
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Until I figure out full order, I have a question. What would be the reason to choose Mason as your role? Doesn't sound like a powerful role to me, does it? Would Bomb not be better?
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Also it was Teproc who came up with the whole Poisoner idea right? Given that it was a long con / distraction that probably was planned all along, I find this quite scummy. So it could be that one of Teproc/O is actually the Bomb knowing there is no Mason, and then guarding scum partner Poisoner Teproc/O
I am not really thinking they should claim at the end.
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Bomb is basically a slightly improved one shot Vig?. Vig is a powerful role in that it gives you personally a lot of control over the game, but it's not actually that strong of a role for town.
Mason isn't the highest impact PR but is pretty much at least as strong as an IC (except at LYLO I guess....) and is definitively pro-town.
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Also it was Teproc who came up with the whole Poisoner idea right? Given that it was a long con / distraction that probably was planned all along, I find this quite scummy. So it could be that one of Teproc/O is actually the Bomb knowing there is no Mason, and then guarding scum partner Poisoner Teproc/O
I am not really thinking they should claim at the end.
I'll mostly let Teproc defend it since I didn't comment much in the QT on this plan, but how exactly is the current result worse than not having the poisoner claim D1?
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The more I think of it, I really like the idea of at least one of the mason claim earlier. We should at least should keep the idea alive of them being a scum team. If they are and we let them claim last, the game is already kinda lost. But if we let one of them claim earlier and the other one later, we don't give all that much info to scum if they are indeed Masons.
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Like actually whats the scum benefit here. We lynched Iguana instead of the poisoner.
If Iguana doesn't claim, we're still hunting blindly for the poisoner and know 1 less confirmed scum...?
The reality here is that scum haven't made some amazing misdirection. Poisoner is just a broken role that's almost just a stronger unlimited scum!Vig, and scum played it moderately but not exceptionally well given that broken role they've been dealt.
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
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I hope I didn't forget anyone.
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Like actually whats the scum benefit here. We lynched Iguana instead of the poisoner.
If Iguana doesn't claim, we're still hunting blindly for the poisoner and know 1 less confirmed scum...?
The reality here is that scum haven't made some amazing misdirection. Poisoner is just a broken role that's almost just a stronger unlimited scum!Vig, and scum played it moderately but not exceptionally well given that broken role they've been dealt.
Said this at the beginning in my QT. I genuinely believed ii was Town because why in the world wouldn't he just keep his mouth shut?
"let's all claim POS"
"OK!"
...
No one is POS. Weird. I get the idea of him taking heat off his team mate, but to do it on Day 1 was a foolish move.
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
Chance I get busy in a small bit here, so just in case it matters - I agree to this order. (or any order really lol)
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
To be clear, I think this order is fine (though obviously I'd prefer Teproc be with me). But I'd like to see a convincing argument that the fake claim has tangibly benefited scum if you're all going to keep pressing Teproc there.
PPE: Galzria, Eevee, Space have claimed. You missed nobody.
PPE2: Datswan agrees with me. Galzria, you've praised scum's brilliant play here. Care to elaborate?
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
To be clear, I think this order is fine (though obviously I'd prefer Teproc be with me). But I'd like to see a convincing argument that the fake claim has tangibly benefited scum if you're all going to keep pressing Teproc there.
PPE: Galzria, Eevee, Space have claimed. You missed nobody.
PPE2: Datswan agrees with me. Galzria, you've praised scum's brilliant play here. Care to elaborate?
Eh - They could've chosen to wait it out and not claim anything, yes. But in the event of a mass claim (and we did one out of the gate prior to a reroll) they would've needed to protect draft #1. That slot had to claim something that wasn't VT after all. And as they would've assumed that others had taken Poisoner and failed (hi) based on game 1's drafting, fake claiming wasn't really a viable option.
Switching a Goon for draft #1 was well executed. You could argue they jumped the gun and did so before it was necessary, but I'm not really convinced.
The fact is, they were ready and prepared to make the switch. They had planned ahead and played it well.
Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
To be clear, I think this order is fine (though obviously I'd prefer Teproc be with me). But I'd like to see a convincing argument that the fake claim has tangibly benefited scum if you're all going to keep pressing Teproc there.
PPE: Galzria, Eevee, Space have claimed. You missed nobody.
PPE2: Datswan agrees with me. Galzria, you've praised scum's brilliant play here. Care to elaborate?
Eh - They could've chosen to wait it out and not claim anything, yes. But in the event of a mass claim (and we did one out of the gate prior to a reroll) they would've needed to protect draft #1. That slot had to claim something that wasn't VT after all. And as they would've assumed that others had taken Poisoner and failed (hi) based on game 1's drafting, fake claiming wasn't really a viable option.
Switching a Goon for draft #1 was well executed. You could argue they jumped the gun and did so before it was necessary, but I'm not really convinced.
The fact is, they were ready and prepared to make the switch. They had planned ahead and played it well.
Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
The assumption that others would also claim doesn't seem guaranteed... but mostly my problem with this response is the part you're not convinced about. Claiming early benefits how? They can give up a goon with a ~50/50 vs a townie whenever they want later and give his bid to the Poisoner. Still strictly better.
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Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
This is much more relevant than my non alignment indicative disagreement with Galzria though (I guess its alignment indicative... I'm defending Teproc as town with that argument, but w/e).
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Regarding claiming - galzria, I think it was you who said you thought I was mildly scummy for changing my approach this game compared to the reroll regarding claiming. As in, I didn't jump right into it and all for a mass bid position claim. Like you are saying, scum was totally expecting a D1 claim push. I don't think they were the initial ones to push it though.... just ready and waiting.
So teproc asking for a poisoner claim is easily town, but faust backing it up and extending it to try to get the redirector easily scum.
Not that those roles are hard and fast, but I think that is how it played out
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If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
That's not really acceptable. There's no reason not to question it. Have you gone back and reread them? Do you have reason to just accept their claim? Why so willing to throw in the towel if they're scum?
I feel like their claim is a lot more likely coming from town than from scum, I feel like we're at an enormous disadvantage right now, and I don't feel like lynching a mason to lose the game on D4. If they're both alive in a few days, we can look back on it, and I phrased myself badly. But I'm not lynching them today.
If they are scum and we're not lynching them, we have like a 1/8 chance of not losing today.
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
faust
Teproc
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
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Would all the scum immediately jump on their partner.
Probably more of a, "well, lynching iguana is going to happen...everyone can bus but let's look townie doing it" conversation.
You do realize you contradict yourself here?
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Sadly he is offlne, but he should be claiming as soon as he comes back or I am voting straight for him.
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Faust - Just to be clear, what is it that you are opposed to exactly? Claiming at all, or just the order that has been drafted for you?
I'm opposed to Teproc claiming last.
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Faust - Just to be clear, what is it that you are opposed to exactly? Claiming at all, or just the order that has been drafted for you?
I'm opposed to Teproc claiming last.
Well good news.. he is set to claim second now.
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Would all the scum immediately jump on their partner.
Probably more of a, "well, lynching iguana is going to happen...everyone can bus but let's look townie doing it" conversation.
You do realize you contradict yourself here?
The difference I was going for was not if scum buses, but when scum buses. I don't see a contradiction
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
And scum hammer to win the game?
That was my whole point about getting 9/10 people willing to lynch him instead of actually lynching...
I would probably lynch him. I want time to get to some rereads first, but I've mentioned before that he's felt off this game. 9/10 means you're expectations is that both his partners state willingness to bus? We need 6 to lynch, which is (without scum helping) 6/7 townies together.
You don't seem as concerned about LyLo as you seemed just a bit ago.
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
I bid 3 and got slot 15, wnet for Redirector and failed. My D1 trying to out the Redirector was based on this since I thought that meant scum got that slot.
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Until I figure out full order, I have a question. What would be the reason to choose Mason as your role? Doesn't sound like a powerful role to me, does it? Would Bomb not be better?
It is pretty powerful as it can clear at least one person as town. Of course the opportunity is wasted if you decide to stall your claim to LyLo ::)
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Or we vote faust to L-1 and get him to claim then.
And scum hammer to win the game?
That was my whole point about getting 9/10 people willing to lynch him instead of actually lynching...
I would probably lynch him. I want time to get to some rereads first, but I've mentioned before that he's felt off this game. 9/10 means you're expectations is that both his partners state willingness to bus? We need 6 to lynch, which is (without scum helping) 6/7 townies together.
You don't seem as concerned about LyLo as you seemed just a bit ago.
Of course I am. But nothing you've done so far gives any indication that you're town.
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Also it was Teproc who came up with the whole Poisoner idea right? Given that it was a long con / distraction that probably was planned all along, I find this quite scummy. So it could be that one of Teproc/O is actually the Bomb knowing there is no Mason, and then guarding scum partner Poisoner Teproc/O
I am not really thinking they should claim at the end.
Thank you.
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
I bid 3 and got slot 15, wnet for Redirector and failed. My D1 trying to out the Redirector was based on this since I thought that meant scum got that slot.
I do not believe this statement
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
I bid 3 and got slot 15, wnet for Redirector and failed. My D1 trying to out the Redirector was based on this since I thought that meant scum got that slot.
I do not believe this statement
You have bias-shades on though, and you know it.
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Also it was Teproc who came up with the whole Poisoner idea right? Given that it was a long con / distraction that probably was planned all along, I find this quite scummy. So it could be that one of Teproc/O is actually the Bomb knowing there is no Mason, and then guarding scum partner Poisoner Teproc/O
I am not really thinking they should claim at the end.
I'll mostly let Teproc defend it since I didn't comment much in the QT on this plan, but how exactly is the current result worse than not having the poisoner claim D1?
That is beside the point. The point is that iguana acted quickly and knew what to do. That makes it more likely that the thing was orchestrated. Maybe scum felt there was going to be a Poisoner claim anyway and wanted to look as townie as possible doing it. I don't think urging the Poisoner to claim D1 was anti-town, but it was scummy.
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
I bid 3 and got slot 15, wnet for Redirector and failed. My D1 trying to out the Redirector was based on this since I thought that meant scum got that slot.
I do not believe this statement
You have bias-shades on though, and you know it.
I know. But does faust really believe he gets a role bidding for redirector 15th in line? Seriously? Like, we are talking about the same slot that has summon mother for the smoke monster.
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
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I don't think they were the initial ones to push it though.... just ready and waiting.
And that's based on nothing. If scum!me would have expected the claim push, I would want to lead the way rather than follow along. I think you can see this in many of my scum games if you bothered to look.
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Not sure on complete order, but I want for sure faust to claim first as he was so evasive and delayed his claiming.
I bid 3 and got slot 15, wnet for Redirector and failed. My D1 trying to out the Redirector was based on this since I thought that meant scum got that slot.
I do not believe this statement
You have bias-shades on though, and you know it.
I know. But does faust really believe he gets a role bidding for redirector 15th in line? Seriously? Like, we are talking about the same slot that has summon mother for the smoke monster.
I think it's more likely he's telling the truth. Or, at least, that iguana bid and drafted that.
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
I didn't think I'd get anything, and having information on whether Mother/Redirect is in the game seemed like a good thing to have, better even than a random weak PR.
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
I didn't think I'd get anything, and having information on whether Mother/Redirect is in the game seemed like a good thing to have, better even than a random weak PR.
Barracks was deemed an incredibly strong bid in M100, why would you view it as "a random weak PR"?
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Bid 7, got slot 5 and went for Masons, which I got.
Qvist, Masons are very strong... it admittedly doesn't look as strong here because we didn't anticipate lylo being so early and, as faust alluded to, claiming Masons at lylo is less than ideal.
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
What could of he said that you would of given him credit for in this situation?
PPE 3
-
Faust, what was your thinking behind your bidding strategy?
-
e, by yor logic, what do you think of e going for Tracker at slot 13 ?
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Is RR likely to be on soon? Can we jump him in the claiming order? I don't mind one way or another, I just hate waiting lol
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
What could of he said that you would of given him credit for in this situation?
PPE 3
I mean, yeah. Galzria is absolutely right that I have my bias here. He could have surprised me and claimed a PR. A slot 15 VT bid was exactly what I anticipated (and predicted) so no, not gong to change my opinion.
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Not sure if that made sense to you, but how about:
RR
DatSwan
e
O
Qvist
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Faust, what was your thinking behind your bidding strategy?
You mean the 3? I thought Lost numbers would be in high demand, even though unlike the last run there was no actual benefit to going Lost number over other number, it just kind of feels better. So I went for a non-Lost number. I thought a bit about going higher, like 5, to not be on the first non-Lost number, but deadline came before I could change.
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I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
What could of he said that you would of given him credit for in this situation?
PPE 3
I mean, yeah. Galzria is absolutely right that I have my bias here. He could have surprised me and claimed a PR. A slot 15 VT bid was exactly what I anticipated (and predicted) so no, not gong to change my opinion.
You're funny. You could get more credit if you had actually publicly predicted such a thing. Even though I am not sure how me getting a PR would make me more likely town.
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e, by yor logic, what do you think of e going for Tracker at slot 13 ?
Could you clarify? Who are you referring to?
-
Faust, what was your thinking behind your bidding strategy?
You mean the 3? I thought Lost numbers would be in high demand, even though unlike the last run there was no actual benefit to going Lost number over other number, it just kind of feels better. So I went for a non-Lost number. I thought a bit about going higher, like 5, to not be on the first non-Lost number, but deadline came before I could change.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Thanks
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e, by yor logic, what do you think of Eevee going for Tracker at slot 13 ?
Could you clarify? Who are you referring to?
Fixed
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
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I'm the Tracker. My number was 5, got draft position #13. I bid for the same thing than before the reroll, and this time got the role.
My targets were:
N1: Tracked e, got no result. (Either blocked or e didn't visit anyone. Inclined to feel towny on e because of that, most of the scum team are going to use some kind of a role, although a ninja kill is of a possibility. At the very least e is confirmed non-poisoner, so should be off the lynchpool for today.)
N2: Tracked Qvist, who visited e, DatSwan, Eevee, Galzria, Iguana, Teproc (That's the candidates, meaning Qvist is the protector of the island, explaining the missing nightkill, confirmed town.)
N3: Tracked Space, who visited Galzria. (Maybe the poisoner? Or maybe the watcher. I don't know.)
Noteworthy from Space's claim, if it's true, Galzria was redirected on N2. (If he did something that night.)
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My paranoia says that faust came up with the whole poisoner thing. Very interested to see him claim goon here in iguanas spot
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Bid 7, got slot 5 and went for Masons, which I got.
Qvist, Masons are very strong... it admittedly doesn't look as strong here because we didn't anticipate lylo being so early and, as faust alluded to, claiming Masons at lylo is less than ideal.
its still strong at lylo if we've convinced people to believe us. Scum have a difficult time killing us because it ICs another person still.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
[/quote
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
-
There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
[/quote
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
Candidate Cop is arguably just as valuable to SK as Mother.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
Candidate Cop is arguably just as valuable to SK as Mother.
Given that mother has a 1/3 chance of immediately giving you all the candidates if you don't already, I think you're actually just straight wrong.
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
It's important that there be a case on both of you, yes. You're either both town or both scum.
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
Candidate Cop is arguably just as valuable to SK as Mother.
So why didn't LaLight take it? It is a role valuable to only one person. Plus, it would be a delayed kill for SM. Investigate, then kill. Too slow. SM had other more pressing concerns
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
Candidate Cop is arguably just as valuable to SK as Mother.
Given that mother has a 1/3 chance of immediately giving you all the candidates if you don't already, I think you're actually just straight wrong.
Ah, you're correct. I wasn't thinking Mother as Candidate.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
It's important that there be a case on both of you, yes. You're either both town or both scum.
And it's somewhat curious that you're the only one who even half-assedly attempted one. Curious on the other people, that is. I guess one of the guilty parties is Qvist tho, who is probsTown anyways.
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Looking at Teproc again. I'm trying to keep this on point.
1. The D1 start is only theory talk about the Poisoner claim. Regardless of whether that was a good thing or not, theory talk makes it easier for scum to get into the game.
2. iguana claims right on Teproc's say-so. There are a lot of reasons for scum to do this. The Poisoner is going to look scummy once people flip as poisoned because those people will not be scum. It isn't hard to imagine that scum thought they could not keep a Poisoner hidden. Then of course, orchestrating the claim like this is ideal. It is of course possible that iguana thought of this clever ploy without coordination, but it is unlikely - not because I don't trust iguana to have that idea, but because it's dangerous to drop this on your partners without discussing it first. If scum is prepared to claim, then sure they want to do it.
2. This is what is bothering me also: The only mention at all that Teproc makes of O during D1 through D3 is this:
faust is not going for any of the main wagons AND fighting with O ? Another player looking townie and making me want to lynch the people who are not.
There is no connection between the two of them, at least none I can see from Teproc's posts (I haven't reread O yet). Teproc is a candidate. Teproc is active. Town!Teproc would know he is a likely kill candidate. Masons would know that they need to make sure their partner is cleared when they die. Teproc did no such thing, which makes me strongly doubt his sincerity.
3. This is kind of a minor point, but he starts the LaLight wagon and then jumps off when it grows. This is the kind of behaviour I expect from scum who thinks LaLight will flip town.
4. His claim right away gives scum maximum influence on the claiming order but keeps as much as possible in the dark. They can put their remaining partner wherever in the claiming order suits them best.
Vote: Teproc
PPE: 11
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
If you can prove that you are town, I will reconsider my Teproc read.
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
If you can prove that you are town, I will reconsider my Teproc read.
It's more like you're on a suicide train to get lynched regardless, and I'm just hoping you're scum at this point.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
What? You just said you expect me to take iguana's bid, which implies I'm the Posioner. At least make up your mind as to what you're accusing me of.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
What? You just said you expect me to take iguana's bid, which implies I'm the Posioner. At least make up your mind as to what you're accusing me of.
Iguana takes poisoner bid, you take iguana bid, poisoner takes your bid.
It's not hard to coordinate N0, and provides multiple layers of protection on the poisoner
-
There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
If you can prove that you are town, I will reconsider my Teproc read.
It's more like you're on a suicide train to get lynched regardless, and I'm just hoping you're scum at this point.
Ah right so you don't have to justify any reads at all anymore. Proving you are town isn't going very well so far.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
-
There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
If you can prove that you are town, I will reconsider my Teproc read.
It's more like you're on a suicide train to get lynched regardless, and I'm just hoping you're scum at this point.
Ah right so you don't have to justify any reads at all anymore. Proving you are town isn't going very well so far.
Not for you it isn't.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
What? You just said you expect me to take iguana's bid, which implies I'm the Posioner. At least make up your mind as to what you're accusing me of.
Iguana takes poisoner bid, you take iguana bid, poisoner takes your bid.
It's not hard to coordinate N0, and provides multiple layers of protection on the poisoner
Doesn't that expose all 3 of the scum if the Poisoner dies?
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
No, also if both are unique.
-
Why did nobody take Day Vig. :( This is the situation it's actually useful.
-
Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
What? You just said you expect me to take iguana's bid, which implies I'm the Posioner. At least make up your mind as to what you're accusing me of.
Iguana takes poisoner bid, you take iguana bid, poisoner takes your bid.
It's not hard to coordinate N0, and provides multiple layers of protection on the poisoner
Doesn't that expose all 3 of the scum if the Poisoner dies?
Does it? Well, maybe that plan wouldn't work. Then yeah! You are the poisoner! Awesome
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Why did nobody take Day Vig. :( This is the situation it's actually useful.
There are still people who haven't claimed
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Why did nobody take Day Vig. :( This is the situation it's actually useful.
There are still people who haven't claimed
I'm not feeling Day Vig on any of them lol. But hey, here's hoping A) I'm Wrong, and B) They're town.
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There is one more thing about Teproc that bothers me now. I will go back and put together all my problems with him.
Where's the O case?
If you can prove that you are town, I will reconsider my Teproc read.
It's more like you're on a suicide train to get lynched regardless, and I'm just hoping you're scum at this point.
Ah right so you don't have to justify any reads at all anymore. Proving you are town isn't going very well so far.
I really don't. I'm not getting lynched today, Teproc is not getting lynched today. I have pretty high confidence in it actually.
Even though our masonry isn't claimed at the perfect time it's still more legitimate and townie looking than many people's behavior so far.
-
I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
No, also if both are unique.
If 3 bids exist: 42, 42, 3. The bid on 3 is better. If two bids exist: 42, 3. The bid on 42 is better.
You want unique lost numbers. But secondary to that is unique numbers.
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
Guess so
-
Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
I hummed and hawed over it for a long time, but in the end basically thought those would be the plays scum would expect and plan for.
For Iguana, I just really didn't think he was scum, and thought that tracking him would give me just information that I was going to get one day later anyways. I didn't even consider scum might have done something like this.
LL, I thought I wouldn't catch scum because he was such an obvious target. I thought that there was so much heat on him he'd probably make sure to have his target match his claim. I hoped I would find scum going for a surprise target, not someone they would expect me to track.
-
Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
No, also if both are unique.
If 3 bids exist: 42, 42, 3. The bid on 3 is better. If two bids exist: 42, 3. The bid on 42 is better.
You want unique lost numbers. But secondary to that is unique numbers.
Yes, so I repeat my question: Why those numbers? aside from the fact that I bid one of them and you want to paint me scummy.
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Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
I hummed and hawed over it for a long time, but in the end basically thought those would be the plays scum would expect and plan for.
For Iguana, I just really didn't think he was scum, and thought that tracking him would give me just information that I was going to get one day later anyways. I didn't even consider scum might have done something like this.
LL, I thought I wouldn't catch scum because he was such an obvious target. I thought that there was so much heat on him he'd probably make sure to have his target match his claim. I hoped I would find scum going for a surprise target, not someone they would expect me to track.
These are all legitimately terrible explanations.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
No, also if both are unique.
If 3 bids exist: 42, 42, 3. The bid on 3 is better. If two bids exist: 42, 3. The bid on 42 is better.
You want unique lost numbers. But secondary to that is unique numbers.
Yes, so I repeat my question: Why those numbers? aside from the fact that I bid one of them and you want to paint me scummy.
Because they are the two low lost numbers and the two low non-lost numbers with a delta of 1.
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Giant pointless discussion that's not 1/10th as relevant as Eevee's explanation
pls
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Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
I hummed and hawed over it for a long time, but in the end basically thought those would be the plays scum would expect and plan for.
For Iguana, I just really didn't think he was scum, and thought that tracking him would give me just information that I was going to get one day later anyways. I didn't even consider scum might have done something like this.
LL, I thought I wouldn't catch scum because he was such an obvious target. I thought that there was so much heat on him he'd probably make sure to have his target match his claim. I hoped I would find scum going for a surprise target, not someone they would expect me to track.
These are all legitimately terrible explanations.
I think they are perfectly townie reasons.
Think about it. Iguana very likely did not do the kill N1. Eevee investigates, sees iguana do nothing and confirms he is a good town poisoner who didn't vig
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I am very convinced that eevee is town at this point
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
My thoughts are pretty open right now. Question everyone and everything.
I want quite badly to believe O and Teproc are scum. There are a number of things that put them in that column. There's also a number of things that make them likely town. First and foremost: They claimed unprovoked today prior to a Tracker and Watcher claim. They can't all 4 be scum, so that's incredibly dangerous if scum.
I could see an Eevee/Space/Qvist team. But then we have a lost Mafia Kill N2.
You're more combative than I'm used to. Don't know what to make of a Faust that goes against the grain. Half of me wants you to be town. The other half can't stop going "Damn, that shit's scummy".
RR and DatSwan and e... I don't know. Probably scum there... But I wouldn't know where to begin to pick.
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
This is to the dot what I was thinking! Also that if I get it, it would be one of the more fun roles to play.
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Yeah, I have no particular issue with Eevee's tracking choices.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Are you saying you don’t believe Galz uniquely bid 42?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
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Yeah, I said "goon" not "VT" - I meant the same thing. Vanilla whatever
Yay you. SO you think I'm the Poisoner? You think I put myself completely unnecessarily in a position that gives much more spotlight to me?
Are you saying you don’t believe Galz uniquely bid 42?
Maybe not the poisoner. Scums entire game revolves around the poisoner. I think scum bid 3,4,5,8,15. They wanted that poisoner role. I think you are the second line of defense behind iguana.
Sorry, 4 scum. 3,4,5,8
Or something like that
Why those numbers? You do realize that 3 is actually a worse bid than 42 in term of which number comes first?
Yes. If 42 is unique.
Phone sorry - are you saying you don’t think Galz 42 was unique?
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Eevee, why didn't you track the claimed Poisoner N1? Or the claimed JK?
I hummed and hawed over it for a long time, but in the end basically thought those would be the plays scum would expect and plan for.
For Iguana, I just really didn't think he was scum, and thought that tracking him would give me just information that I was going to get one day later anyways. I didn't even consider scum might have done something like this.
LL, I thought I wouldn't catch scum because he was such an obvious target. I thought that there was so much heat on him he'd probably make sure to have his target match his claim. I hoped I would find scum going for a surprise target, not someone they would expect me to track.
These are all legitimately terrible explanations.
I think they are perfectly townie reasons.
Think about it. Iguana very likely did not do the kill N1. Eevee investigates, sees iguana do nothing and confirms he is a good town poisoner who didn't vig
The probabilities/WIFOM there are all fine and dandy but the alternative is, of course, picking randomly from a crowd and hoping it sticks AND is somehow useful.
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Eevee* going for Tracker at slot 13
That spot had candidate cop and tracker. Tracker is useful to town, whereas for scum it's only use is to appear townie. Candidate cop is a really weak role in my opinion.
Tracker is strong enough that town wants it in play. Draft position 13 is a great place to make sure the role is in play, but I don't think that role is a priority for town to jump at. I really like eevee going for it at 13. Working for town utility not just random town knowledge.
This is to the dot what I was thinking! Also that if I get it, it would be one of the more fun roles to play.
Tracker is useful for scum the same way that Rolecop is useful for scum.
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Phone sorry - are you saying you don’t think Galz 42 was unique?
I was strictly theory talking. It was not on my mind at all that galzria bid 42
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As fun as it's been boys and girls, it's bed time for Galzria! 1:30am and I have a long day of work ahead of me tomorrow. Look forward to the rest of the claims and more discussion.
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
My thoughts are pretty open right now. Question everyone and everything.
I want quite badly to believe O and Teproc are scum. There are a number of things that put them in that column. There's also a number of things that make them likely town. First and foremost: They claimed unprovoked today prior to a Tracker and Watcher claim. They can't all 4 be scum, so that's incredibly dangerous if scum.
I could see an Eevee/Space/Qvist team. But then we have a lost Mafia Kill N2.
You're more combative than I'm used to. Don't know what to make of a Faust that goes against the grain. Half of me wants you to be town. The other half can't stop going "Damn, that shit's scummy".
RR and DatSwan and e... I don't know. Probably scum there... But I wouldn't know where to begin to pick.
What is the Nash Equilibrium of risking 2 scum when you're at LYLO with a 7-3 split?
What is the % modifier on that for the choice to either do it with trackers/watchers out, or for neither of us to have taken an action thus far?
Yea it's a play that can be made and should be sometimes by some theoretical model that I'm definitely not going to bother figuring out. Like 5-10% of the time. This is not one of those times.
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Galzria; why are you so keen on conspiracy theories when we still have people unclaimed?
Like, RR is super scummy and no one is talking about him for example. Very easy to datswan, faust or galzria as scum as well.
Those feel more likely than this being a complicated mason bluff from scum, but I really appreciate the mason-rereads happening. No reason not to investigate there, but I wouldn't forgo the more traditional explanations, even though it would be way cooler to lynch a mason and be right.
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Well, RR is up for claiming, but I doubt we will get it for another few hours at least
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to be fair, if you guys were scum and knew mason was a safe claim, it's pretty great for you because you'd surely not expect to get lynched. but with at least a tracker and possibly also a watcher in the game, could scum have been sure enough that they weren't seen somewhere to go for this and risk their excellent position?
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to be fair, if you guys were scum and knew mason was a safe claim, it's pretty great for you because you'd surely not expect to get lynched. but with at least a tracker and possibly also a watcher in the game, could scum have been sure enough that they weren't seen somewhere to go for this and risk their excellent position?
I don't really see why me or Teproc would expect to get lynched even if we didn't claim mason.
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Re: faust's concers.
You still have not demonstrated why the poisoner thing is more likely to come from scum. You keep saying it as if it were some obvious truth, but it simply is not. The result of poisoner claiming is that we got a free scum lynch.
We did consider breadcrumbing in various ways, but ended up figuring that Masons was a strong claim that we didn't really need it. We also considerered the possibility of my untimely death, and O said he was fine with claiming immediately and taking the 1v1. We did not foresee being at lylo so early, obviously. I will note that O has a couple "this is a bad vote" comments on people voting for me that kinda qualify as breadcrumbs.
Eevee's reasoning for his Tracker choices are good. I don't agree with e that a scum!Eevee would want to claim to have tracked iguana N1 though. It doesn't stop us from lynching the claimed Poisoner when someone dies of Poison. Maybe we lynch the Tracker checking him instead, but more importantly they now both look like liars, and if we decide to lynch Eevee first it's horrible for scum.
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to be fair, if you guys were scum and knew mason was a safe claim, it's pretty great for you because you'd surely not expect to get lynched. but with at least a tracker and possibly also a watcher in the game, could scum have been sure enough that they weren't seen somewhere to go for this and risk their excellent position?
I don't really see why me or Teproc would expect to get lynched even if we didn't claim mason.
Someone's got to. And in the scenario of you two being scum, you'd have to lie in your claims.
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Eevee's reasoning for his Tracker choices are good. I don't agree with e that a scum!Eevee would want to claim to have tracked iguana N1 though. It doesn't stop us from lynching the claimed Poisoner when someone dies of Poison. Maybe we lynch the Tracker checking him instead, but more importantly they now both look like liars, and if we decide to lynch Eevee first it's horrible for scum.
I wasn't trying to say scum!tracker!eevee tracks iguana, but that (the way things worked out) town!eevee's decision to not track iguana was very good
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
My thoughts are pretty open right now. Question everyone and everything.
I want quite badly to believe O and Teproc are scum. There are a number of things that put them in that column. There's also a number of things that make them likely town. First and foremost: They claimed unprovoked today prior to a Tracker and Watcher claim. They can't all 4 be scum, so that's incredibly dangerous if scum.
I could see an Eevee/Space/Qvist team. But then we have a lost Mafia Kill N2.
You're more combative than I'm used to. Don't know what to make of a Faust that goes against the grain. Half of me wants you to be town. The other half can't stop going "Damn, that shit's scummy".
RR and DatSwan and e... I don't know. Probably scum there... But I wouldn't know where to begin to pick.
What is the Nash Equilibrium of risking 2 scum when you're at LYLO with a 7-3 split?
What is the % modifier on that for the choice to either do it with trackers/watchers out, or for neither of us to have taken an action thus far?
Yea it's a play that can be made and should be sometimes by some theoretical model that I'm definitely not going to bother figuring out. Like 5-10% of the time. This is not one of those times.
Just to be fair - Nash only applies when all parties involved are 100% aware of each parties optimum win strategy. As town - we do not actually know the optimum win strategy of skum. We can only apply Nash on our side hoping that outliers stand out.
Just an example - but if skum had enough info to pull off a mason fake claim, getting all of us to claim and cough up their info while skum acts last... that would kind of be an optimal win condition for skum.
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I don't think it's unbelievable O and Teproc wouldn't breadcrumbs more.
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Re: faust's concers.
You still have not demonstrated why the poisoner thing is more likely to come from scum. You keep saying it as if it were some obvious truth, but it simply is not. The result of poisoner claiming is that we got a free scum lynch.
We did consider breadcrumbing in various ways, but ended up figuring that Masons was a strong claim that we didn't really need it. We also considerered the possibility of my untimely death, and O said he was fine with claiming immediately and taking the 1v1. We did not foresee being at lylo so early, obviously. I will note that O has a couple "this is a bad vote" comments on people voting for me that kinda qualify as breadcrumbs.
Eevee's reasoning for his Tracker choices are good. I don't agree with e that a scum!Eevee would want to claim to have tracked iguana N1 though. It doesn't stop us from lynching the claimed Poisoner when someone dies of Poison. Maybe we lynch the Tracker checking him instead, but more importantly they now both look like liars, and if we decide to lynch Eevee first it's horrible for scum.
Also.... pretty sure breadcrumming is very specifically stated as not allowed in the rules.as vets I would hope neither of you actually considered it...
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Breadcrumbing through cryptography is not allowed, but there are other ways that are well within the rules. The problem is that they can be somewhat obvious and scum can get them too.
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Breascrumbing is fine, it's just actual cryptography that's forbidden. It's a bit of an arbitrary cutoff, but we've never had any issues that I can recall yet.
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For example, I considered voting for literally everyone except O during the course of da
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...
of day 1, but decided against it because it woud just lead to unnatural votes and get me suspicion. O calling votes on me "bad votes" with no other explanation kind of qualifies as breadcruming too for example.
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
My thoughts are pretty open right now. Question everyone and everything.
I want quite badly to believe O and Teproc are scum. There are a number of things that put them in that column. There's also a number of things that make them likely town. First and foremost: They claimed unprovoked today prior to a Tracker and Watcher claim. They can't all 4 be scum, so that's incredibly dangerous if scum.
I could see an Eevee/Space/Qvist team. But then we have a lost Mafia Kill N2.
You're more combative than I'm used to. Don't know what to make of a Faust that goes against the grain. Half of me wants you to be town. The other half can't stop going "Damn, that shit's scummy".
RR and DatSwan and e... I don't know. Probably scum there... But I wouldn't know where to begin to pick.
What is the Nash Equilibrium of risking 2 scum when you're at LYLO with a 7-3 split?
What is the % modifier on that for the choice to either do it with trackers/watchers out, or for neither of us to have taken an action thus far?
Yea it's a play that can be made and should be sometimes by some theoretical model that I'm definitely not going to bother figuring out. Like 5-10% of the time. This is not one of those times.
Just to be fair - Nash only applies when all parties involved are 100% aware of each parties optimum win strategy. As town - we do not actually know the optimum win strategy of skum. We can only apply Nash on our side hoping that outliers stand out.
Just an example - but if skum had enough info to pull off a mason fake claim, getting all of us to claim and cough up their info while skum acts last... that would kind of be an optimal win condition for skum.
I think you're misunderstanding here. I'm talking a generic 7 town 3 scum composition with some possible fakeclaims. For this there is a Nash equilibrium, even if town don't know who scum are. Obviously what roles scum actually have do affect this but given that i was throwing out a generic hypothetical that seems rather pedantic.
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of day 1, but decided against it because it woud just lead to unnatural votes and get me suspicion. O calling votes on me "bad votes" with no other explanation kind of qualifies as breadcruming too for example.
Apologies, diffemeremt definitions of the term. Disregard my previous post please.
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I guess there is no use in talking to e. What are the thoughts of the rest of you? We've heard plenty from e.
My thoughts are pretty open right now. Question everyone and everything.
I want quite badly to believe O and Teproc are scum. There are a number of things that put them in that column. There's also a number of things that make them likely town. First and foremost: They claimed unprovoked today prior to a Tracker and Watcher claim. They can't all 4 be scum, so that's incredibly dangerous if scum.
I could see an Eevee/Space/Qvist team. But then we have a lost Mafia Kill N2.
You're more combative than I'm used to. Don't know what to make of a Faust that goes against the grain. Half of me wants you to be town. The other half can't stop going "Damn, that shit's scummy".
RR and DatSwan and e... I don't know. Probably scum there... But I wouldn't know where to begin to pick.
What is the Nash Equilibrium of risking 2 scum when you're at LYLO with a 7-3 split?
What is the % modifier on that for the choice to either do it with trackers/watchers out, or for neither of us to have taken an action thus far?
Yea it's a play that can be made and should be sometimes by some theoretical model that I'm definitely not going to bother figuring out. Like 5-10% of the time. This is not one of those times.
Just to be fair - Nash only applies when all parties involved are 100% aware of each parties optimum win strategy. As town - we do not actually know the optimum win strategy of skum. We can only apply Nash on our side hoping that outliers stand out.
Just an example - but if skum had enough info to pull off a mason fake claim, getting all of us to claim and cough up their info while skum acts last... that would kind of be an optimal win condition for skum.
I think you're misunderstanding here. I'm talking a generic 7 town 3 scum composition with some possible fakeclaims. For this there is a Nash equilibrium, even if town don't know who scum are. Obviously what roles scum actually have do affect this but given that i was throwing out a generic hypothetical that seems rather pedantic.
Agreed on pedantic. Just wanted to make sure no one took any improper inferences from it. Kind of can’t afford mis understandings at this point.
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Breascrumbing is fine, it's just actual cryptography that's forbidden. It's a bit of an arbitrary cutoff, but we've never had any issues that I can recall yet.
Robz is quite strict on this.
This
Example
Post
Really doesn't
Observe the
Conditions placed by Robz.
As a cheeky example.
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Breascrumbing is fine, it's just actual cryptography that's forbidden. It's a bit of an arbitrary cutoff, but we've never had any issues that I can recall yet.
Robz is quite strict on this.
This
Example
Post
Really doesn't
Observe the
Conditions placed by Robz.
As a cheeky example.
I don’t normally say lol.. but lol. Point taken.
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Also... somewhat off topic but somewhat interesting regardless:
The presence of named VTs would have allowed us to softclaim all of our bids, which would only be revealed on flip. I could post, for example [the following example is specifically designed to not even suggest a hidden claim]:
Theory, Bid #9001, Draft #3
Donald X, Bid #5643, Draft #42
Ozle, Bid #2000, Draft #24
and then when I died and flipped Ozle, my true bid/draft number would be revealed.
For some reason Robz slapped my hand away when I asked if that would be OK in the personal QT though...
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Re: faust's concers.
You still have not demonstrated why the poisoner thing is more likely to come from scum. You keep saying it as if it were some obvious truth, but it simply is not. The result of poisoner claiming is that we got a free scum lynch.
It can be assumed that scum discussed the possibility of a Poisoner claim, as they were well prepared. Since they discussed this, it is likely that they were fine with a claim. If they were fine with a claim, it stands to reason that they would push it themselves for the towncred.
I don't know why scum thought the Poisoner claim was okay, but I imagine that we would have lynched the Poisoner pretty soon anyway if we found out they used their power to kill a townie on N1.
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Find scum! Yes!
Vote Count 4.1
faust (1): 2.71828
Teproc (1): faust
Not Voting (8): Eevee, Galzria, Teproc, SpaceAnemone, Qvist, RoadRunner7671, O, DatSwan
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Re: faust's concers.
You still have not demonstrated why the poisoner thing is more likely to come from scum. You keep saying it as if it were some obvious truth, but it simply is not. The result of poisoner claiming is that we got a free scum lynch.
It can be assumed that scum discussed the possibility of a Poisoner claim, as they were well prepared. Since they discussed this, it is likely that they were fine with a claim. If they were fine with a claim, it stands to reason that they would push it themselves for the towncred.
I don't know why scum thought the Poisoner claim was okay, but I imagine that we would have lynched the Poisoner pretty soon anyway if we found out they used their power to kill a townie on N1.
This doesn't make any sense. How would we have known who the Poisoner was without the claiming ?
If you don't know why scum would want the claiming, why do you think I'm scummy for proposing it, ie why do you assume scum wanted it ? All we know is they had a plan (or possibly iguana improvised) of switching claims between themselves... which is really pretty standard in this setup.
And what was the towncred worth for them, given that we wer eunlikely to lynch a candidate in the first few days anyway ?
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faust, do you think Teproc is the best lynch?
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To whoever doubted faust was stalling: this is the result of that stalling right here. And for what ? faust's claim is in no way something that would potentially harm scum to know. His draft order and bidding are completely inconsequential to the claiming process. Why did he not wa
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nt to claim again ? Like, seriously, why ? I know why I didn't want to: I'm at an actually strategically important place in the draft order, one that scum might be worried about for fakeclaims. But faust wasn't.
The only reason is that he wanted to stall, so that we'd have to lynch quickly. The claiming process is going to take another day, and then it's just one day before the WE. Which gives us the least possible time to process the claims and assertain what our best chance of lynching scum is, and preferably poisoner!scum.
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So, I'm back. RR is next to voting.
Not sure about those claims yet. Whoever said that, Redirector at late bid is a bit strange indeed.
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Claiming not voting, duh
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As much as I think faust is probably scum, I don't find it strange at all to bid on Redirector late in the draft. It's a good scum role, but there are much better ones so you could still theoretically block it, and it's nice to know whether or not it's in the game, especially when you're someone like faust and you don't want to go for the most powerful town PRs anyway because you're likely to be killed.
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nt to claim again ? Like, seriously, why ? I know why I didn't want to: I'm at an actually strategically important place in the draft order, one that scum might be worried about for fakeclaims. But faust wasn't.
The only reason is that he wanted to stall, so that we'd have to lynch quickly. The claiming process is going to take another day, and then it's just one day before the WE. Which gives us the least possible time to process the claims and assertain what our best chance of lynching scum is, and preferably poisoner!scum.
I didn't not want to claim. I just wanted you to not claim last.
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faust, do you think Teproc is the best lynch?
Yes.
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faust, do you think Teproc is the best lynch?
Yes.
Though there is a chance that we might want to lynch O instead. I'd have to figure out more things for that.
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Again: explain to me how this fakeclaiming Masons world you live in makes sense for scum, with Watcher and Tracker out there. Maybe one of us is our scumbuddies, ok, and obviously we can't know they're out there, but we know they're a possibility right ?
In what world am I confident enough that I didn't get targeted at all by any investigative PR to make that claim ?
Like, how ?
Also, the way you keep ignoring O entirely is... well it's revealing that you're not giving this any serious thought. Because you know, you're scum, and either not-poisoner trying to make it 1v1 to protect him, or poisoner hoping we think that, haven't quite decided that part yet.
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one of them is our scumbuddy* is what it should read.
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Again: explain to me how this fakeclaiming Masons world you live in makes sense for scum, with Watcher and Tracker out there. Maybe one of us is our scumbuddies, ok, and obviously we can't know they're out there, but we know they're a possibility right ?
In what world am I confident enough that I didn't get targeted at all by any investigative PR to make that claim ?
Conflicting claims are not a terrbily big problem at LyLo.
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Plus, if someone watched you kill gkrieg or something, there is no claim that would help you anyway.
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Yeah but I'm taking O down with me then. How is that a winning strategy ? Why take that massive, massive risk ?
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Also, the way you keep ignoring O entirely is...
My time is limited. I respond to the things that need responding. I want to reread O yes, but there has been no time for this so far.
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Yeah but I'm taking O down with me then. How is that a winning strategy ? Why take that massive, massive risk ?
Risks are taken at LyLo, and it is not at all uncommon for scum to tie themselves together in some way. You have limited fakeclaim options. Claiming you went for Bomb over Masons wouldn't look great.
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Also, the way you keep ignoring O entirely is...
My time is limited. I respond to the things that need responding. I want to reread O yes, but there has been no time for this so far.
Taht you're voting for a claimed Mason at lylo (granted, one vote does not enable a quickhammer in this particular brand of lylo but still) without having taken the time to reread the other claimed Mason should tell everyone everything they need to know about your alignment.
PPE: So you think I'm a Bomb ? Ok. I could claim I went for Watcher or Poisoner and got VT in that case. Convenient, sure, but better than taking the chance of sinking 2/3rds of the scum team. Also, where is the poisoner in your scenario ? In or out of {O, Teproc} ?
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PPE: So you think I'm a Bomb ? Ok. I could claim I went for Watcher or Poisoner and got VT in that case. Convenient, sure, but better than taking the chance of sinking 2/3rds of the scum team. Also, where is the poisoner in your scenario ? In or out of {O, Teproc} ?
I don't know what you are. I was taking a reasonable scenario to illustrate why fakeclaims aren't easy for scum. The Poisoner scenario is interesting... I do think that if you two are scum, neither of you is the Poisoner; that makes more sense with the Mason route. You'd think that if people believe you, you could steer the lynch away from your final partner.
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And the chance of sinking the scum team isn't very big considering that never in f.ds history did claimed Masons get lynched.
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Wasn't there a RMM game where claimed Masons got lynched ?
In any case, if you want to look at history, there is a rather famous case of fakeclaiming masons that many in this game would be familiar with, so you know.
If you're accounting for history, you might also account for how much I'm known for my bold fakeclaims as scum right ? I guess you've got me confused with ash.
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Quick check-in here before sleep. I absolutely agree that claiming should go ahead.
I think Qvist is almost certainly town, and that there's a high chance the mason people are too. People seem to be townreading Galz surprisingly quickly without significant evidence.
I've been looking at wagons and stuff, trying to pin likelihoods on the rest of the lynchpool, which I think is Galz, e, DatSwan, Eevee, RR and faust. I can write up a series of observations tomorrow at lunchbreak probably, but it's all frustratingly inconclusive. If anyone wants votings stats of any particular type, feel free to ask, and I'll try to oblige if it's something I can pull out of my vote-counter easily enough.
stahp pseudo lurking and help hold Faust's feet over the fire so he actually claims.
Sorry! I'm genuinely lacking in time to be here.. I've had commitments every night and work is too busy to do much more than catch up at lunchtime. My intention with a vocal agreement about claiming was to push faust and the others to hurry up and claim. It's not acceptable to be missing their info now that several of us who placed highly and have actual PRs have been outed.
In other news, I have stats at my fingertips, but no clear idea about what to do with them. I'd expected some of the more numbersy people to maybe ask for useful things by now... I'm sure Teproc/Galz/faust have asked for specific patterns or vote counts in previous games to help inject a little more evidence into their speculations.
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Space, what do you think about the people who have claimed so far ?
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Hm. I guess RR isn't quite prod-able yet. I would love to finish all the claiming today
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I'm going to be VLA the next two days. unvote to be safe there.
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Sorry all, just caught up. Very exciting day today!
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So I bid 35 and got slot 7. I bid on the watcher but didn't get it, which was a bummer. That's also why I believe space a whole bunch though.
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faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
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DatSwan next.
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faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
Is it something I said?
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faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
Is it something I said?
Probably a good bit of PoE. Don't worry, we won't lynch you today
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faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
Is it something I said?
Probably a good bit of PoE. Don't worry, we won't lynch you today
<3 Thanks for the white knight.
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So I bid 35 and got slot 7. I bid on the watcher but didn't get it, which was a bummer. That's also why I believe space a whole bunch though.
Wait, you bid 35 ?
...
Why ?
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faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
Is it something I said?
Probably a good bit of PoE. Don't worry, we won't lynch you today
<3 Thanks for the white knight.
No problem. faust is the lynch for today, we can move on to you tomorrow or the day after.
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So I bid 35 and got slot 7. I bid on the watcher but didn't get it, which was a bummer. That's also why I believe space a whole bunch though.
Wait, you bid 35 ?
...
Why ?
Because I thought no one else would so I'd be in front of everyone who didn't have a unique bid.
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Fair enough. I guess it almost guarantees being last of the lone bids, which ain't bad.
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Sorry guys/girls, was caught up at work.
I bid for number 23 and got Draft Position #10.
First time playing this format, so kind of a weird "middle spot". Struggled with it and ended up flipping a coin between Role Blocker and Barracks. Came tails. Went Barracks and unfortunately I did not win it :/
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e now and we'll finally be done with the claiming (I don't think O is around but I can claim his bid/order).
I guess that'll still leave Qvist, which could be relevant actually.
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Fair enough. I guess it almost guarantees being last of the lone bids, which ain't bad.
so...funny you should say this.
I bid 73 and got draft position 9. My thought was that I will be the last person to have a unique bid. I assume that I was since slot 10 is claimed to be a Lost Number.
This is a big reason why I advocated for everyone draft position 10 and above claim. I knew (well, not 100% confidence but pretty high confidence) that they would all be people who bid for the same numbers.
but, back to my role. I went for the barracks and got it. The three roles that were available to me were (best RNG ever) Investigation Immune, Jack-of-all-Trades, Godfather.
So I am (at all intents and purposes) a 1-shot roleblocker. I will not claim if I have used my shot yet or not unless people really want to know.
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Fair enough. I guess it almost guarantees being last of the lone bids, which ain't bad.
I almost bid 97 both games for that exact reason. Something arbitrary and unique.
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@e : I was just figuring out that someone had bid 52+ based on how things shook out, funnily enough. It's not a bad strategy actually.
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Wait you got 9 ? Oh, so things are a little different than I thought. Someone bid somewhere between 52 and 72 as well I think. Funny.
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O bid 3, got slot 14 and went for Last Recruit. He did not get it (this is also the Day 2 IC station).
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Fair enough. I guess it almost guarantees being last of the lone bids, which ain't bad.
so...funny you should say this.
I bid 73 and got draft position 9. My thought was that I will be the last person to have a unique bid. I assume that I was since slot 10 is claimed to be a Lost Number.
This is a big reason why I advocated for everyone draft position 10 and above claim. I knew (well, not 100% confidence but pretty high confidence) that they would all be people who bid for the same numbers.
but, back to my role. I went for the barracks and got it. The three roles that were available to me were (best RNG ever) Investigation Immune, Jack-of-all-Trades, Godfather.
So I am (at all intents and purposes) a 1-shot roleblocker. I will not claim if I have used my shot yet or not unless people really want to know.
Wow crazy. But you should def keep your shot count to yourself.
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Fair enough. I guess it almost guarantees being last of the lone bids, which ain't bad.
so...funny you should say this.
I bid 73 and got draft position 9. My thought was that I will be the last person to have a unique bid. I assume that I was since slot 10 is claimed to be a Lost Number.
This is a big reason why I advocated for everyone draft position 10 and above claim. I knew (well, not 100% confidence but pretty high confidence) that they would all be people who bid for the same numbers.
but, back to my role. I went for the barracks and got it. The three roles that were available to me were (best RNG ever) Investigation Immune, Jack-of-all-Trades, Godfather.
So I am (at all intents and purposes) a 1-shot roleblocker. I will not claim if I have used my shot yet or not unless people really want to know.
Probably don't claim I imagine
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8)
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16)
4. Galzria (42)
5. Teproc (7)
6. LaLight (14)
7. RR (35)
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73)
10. DatSwan (23)
11. ???? (23)
12. ???? (5)
13. Eevee (5)
14. O (3)
15. faust (3)
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
Qvist
gkrieg
chairs
WW
IDPTG
Jimmm
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Ugh, so many unwanted smileys.
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8)
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16)
4. Galzria (42)
5. Teproc (7)
6. LaLight (14)
7. RR (35)
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73)
10. DatSwan (23)
11. ???? (23)
12. ???? (5)
13. Eevee (5)
14. O (3)
15. faust (3)
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
Qvist
gkrieg
chairs
WW
IDPTG
Jimmm
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So, I think we lynch a VT today. Presumably one of the claims is iguana's spot, which is VT. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Poisoner claimed VT, because scum could have foreseen this line of reasoning, not to mention that they might, depending on who they were, claimed one of the stations no one went for (The Arrow, The Flame, The Staff or The Looking Glass).
Assuming e doesn't contradict the following: Qvist is basically conf!town, because nothing else explains the missing kill.
PPE: Thanks.
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This means my lynchpool is
{Galz, RR, DatSwan, faust}
Obviously I'm leaning faust, but I'll do some rereading and thinking.
I will say that the 35 bid (and e's 73 bid) seems super townie to me. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for scum to go that way, but I guess 3 people did ti so it's not as weird as I initially thought.
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Are we not keeping our reads in the mason QT anymore
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Are we not keeping our reads in the mason QT anymore
Well no, the claiming is done (all that's left is Qvist and I think he's an IC here), so now we're just left with the task of lynching scum.
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Interesting.
I agree with lynching the VT's for the most part, given the following:
If Teproc/O are town, Then: e is either scum, or there are likely two scum amongst the VT claims. One Roleblocker (See: LL blocked N1), and the Poisoner.
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LL kinda intimated he might have no killed, weirdly ? I don't know how that'd make sense anyway, but in any case yes, Roleblocker is likely a hidden scum role is (the other options don't really make sense, since Strongman is not in play here and the others would have been claimed).
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Also note that we now know that we MUST either A) Lynch Scum, or B) Lynch the Poisoned Player. If we do neither we lose as there is no more potential protection.
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Also note that we now know that we MUST either A) Lynch Scum, or B) Lynch the Poisoned Player. If we do neither we lose as there is no more potential protection.
e is potentially a 1-Shot Roleblocker and there is not Strongman, so not quite. Not that it matters.
You agree we should lynch within the VTs, but who do you think it should be ?
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The other role in the watcher - slot is investigation immune, how likely would mafia take watcher over that? Is there any way scum could know about Qvist using his role the night he did unless they had a watcher?
Just reading back through people's claims to answer Teproc's question in more detail (though I did at least already give opinions on claims back at #1463), and noticed this.
Eevee, are you suggesting that scum knew about the Protector of the Island thing already, and that somehow means that I fed them info? In addition to not being scum, I had nowhere near enough information to put it together, because all I had to go on at the time was that two people had targeted Galz and there'd been no NK. So your comment here confuses me a lot in retrospect.
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The other role in the watcher - slot is investigation immune, how likely would mafia take watcher over that?
Also, this part of the quote is nice defending of me on your part, after you sounded like you were accusing me before.. however, it's provably wrong since I took watcher as scum the first time round.
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The other role in the watcher - slot is investigation immune, how likely would mafia take watcher over that?
Also, this part of the quote is nice defending of me on your part, after you sounded like you were accusing me before.. however, it's provably wrong since I took watcher as scum the first time round.
About that: did you factor that in to your decision to go for Watcher again, in a very similar spot ?
Also, I'm curious what people think about bidding strategies for scum. I'm rethinking my "lynch among VTs" stance for a "lynch among Lost numbers bid" currently, as I think it's very likely that two of the people claiming t have bid Lost numbers are scum. This is true if we assume the scumteam as a whole bid on 3 Lost numbers, and those would be {DatSwan, Galz, Space}.
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Also note that we now know that we MUST either A) Lynch Scum, or B) Lynch the Poisoned Player. If we do neither we lose as there is no more potential protection.
e is potentially a 1-Shot Roleblocker and there is not Strongman, so not quite. Not that it matters.
You agree we should lynch within the VTs, but who do you think it should be ?
I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
DatSwan bid and won Roleblocker last game with a much worse bid as scum. I could absolutely see him going for it again. I'll need to reread from a "He's scum, what supports it" perspective, but he would make a good RB candidate. I doubt very much that he beat everybody to bid #1, although DO note that he bid 4 last time. So he COULD easily be the Poisoner.
RR... man. I apparently broke him D2, when he wrote a book self arguing. At this point I'm just completely lost on what to think of him. But... I guess end of the day, like Faust, he doesn't read his normal townie self to me. So.
That probably wasn't helpful?
Let's look at who amongst us could reasonably be #1:
I don't think there's a strong argument for me being #1: Unless scum is running a triple switch, then me flipping with Iguana doesn't make sense. What would Iguana have bid on from 4 that he got VT if he knew I bid 1 and got Poisoner?
DatSwan could be with a bid of #4, his bid from last game.
RR could - He wasn't in last game so could've bid anywhere.
Faust bid 23. He would've needed to see the draft results from last game and guess that he could reasonably improve by going 4/8. Note that his claimed bid choice of 3 makes far more sense - he would've been draft #2 in the previous reroll (prior to SM mechanics). So I doubt he's #1.
On that note, I want to believe Space poisoned me last night - but I think that's paranoia. Space also doesn't make sense for bid #1 unless scum is running a triple switch.
Let's look at how bids changed from one game to the other:
Lost Numbers: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
DatSwan: 4 (15th) -> 23 (10). Had bids been exactly the same as the first game, this offers no potential bid improvement.
Faust: 23 (10th) -> 3 (15th). Had this been exactly the same as the first game, he would've imported to #2. This is logical from Faust.
Galz: 7 (8th) -> 42 (4th). Yadda yadda... I would've improved to #2.
RR: No info.
All this adds up to, prior to reads, I think the best lynch is probably:
Swan
With RR being the most random, and Faust (from a numbers perspective) being the worst (behind me, who I think is least likely to be Poisoner (although you could argue that I'm a good candidate for RB))
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I took watcher as scum the first time round.
About that: did you factor that in to your decision to go for Watcher again, in a very similar spot ?
Not overly much. I know it's the best role for me to play as town (information gathering, without the need to have spot-on reads), and I knew that when I was scum too.
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The other role in the watcher - slot is investigation immune, how likely would mafia take watcher over that? Is there any way scum could know about Qvist using his role the night he did unless they had a watcher?
Just reading back through people's claims to answer Teproc's question in more detail (though I did at least already give opinions on claims back at #1463), and noticed this.
Eevee, are you suggesting that scum knew about the Protector of the Island thing already, and that somehow means that I fed them info? In addition to not being scum, I had nowhere near enough information to put it together, because all I had to go on at the time was that two people had targeted Galz and there'd been no NK. So your comment here confuses me a lot in retrospect.
I was just wondering out loud (via text) hot towny your claim was, what the different possibilities were.
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On that note, I want to believe Space poisoned me last night - but I think that's paranoia. Space also doesn't make sense for bid #1 unless scum is running a triple switch.
If I'd been a poisoner, I couldn't know you'd been targeted by Qvist before Eevee announced him as the PotI, so you're safe there :-)
Let's look at how bids changed from one game to the other:
I moved my bid to a higher number specifically because I assumed everyone would analyse the first game's bidding patterns and skew toward bidding lower Lost numbers, since I did really well with #8 the first time round. I think we'd have to play a lot of times before it's safe to assume that the bid distribution will be more or less fixed.
Argh.. it's almost 1am already and I need to get to bed. More posting tomorrow I hope.
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Also note that we now know that we MUST either A) Lynch Scum, or B) Lynch the Poisoned Player. If we do neither we lose as there is no more potential protection.
e is potentially a 1-Shot Roleblocker and there is not Strongman, so not quite. Not that it matters.
You agree we should lynch within the VTs, but who do you think it should be ?
I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
DatSwan bid and won Roleblocker last game with a much worse bid as scum. I could absolutely see him going for it again. I'll need to reread from a "He's scum, what supports it" perspective, but he would make a good RB candidate. I doubt very much that he beat everybody to bid #1, although DO note that he bid 4 last time. So he COULD easily be the Poisoner.
RR... man. I apparently broke him D2, when he wrote a book self arguing. At this point I'm just completely lost on what to think of him. But... I guess end of the day, like Faust, he doesn't read his normal townie self to me. So.
That probably wasn't helpful?
Let's look at who amongst us could reasonably be #1:
I don't think there's a strong argument for me being #1: Unless scum is running a triple switch, then me flipping with Iguana doesn't make sense. What would Iguana have bid on from 4 that he got VT if he knew I bid 1 and got Poisoner?
DatSwan could be with a bid of #4, his bid from last game.
RR could - He wasn't in last game so could've bid anywhere.
Faust bid 23. He would've needed to see the draft results from last game and guess that he could reasonably improve by going 4/8. Note that his claimed bid choice of 3 makes far more sense - he would've been draft #2 in the previous reroll (prior to SM mechanics). So I doubt he's #1.
On that note, I want to believe Space poisoned me last night - but I think that's paranoia. Space also doesn't make sense for bid #1 unless scum is running a triple switch.
Let's look at how bids changed from one game to the other:
Lost Numbers: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
DatSwan: 4 (15th) -> 23 (10). Had bids been exactly the same as the first game, this offers no potential bid improvement.
Faust: 23 (10th) -> 3 (15th). Had this been exactly the same as the first game, he would've imported to #2. This is logical from Faust.
Galz: 7 (8th) -> 42 (4th). Yadda yadda... I would've improved to #2.
RR: No info.
All this adds up to, prior to reads, I think the best lynch is probably:
Swan
With RR being the most random, and Faust (from a numbers perspective) being the worst (behind me, who I think is least likely to be Poisoner (although you could argue that I'm a good candidate for RB))
I don't get it. The skum thread is released from the re roll. I am in there stating I thought 4 and 8 should be bid over based on the ideal that we need to blanket the top numbers as a team. I also have never done this with any of the people before here. I got Draft 15... so that didn't work. In a world where I make the same decisions in a different game for some reason, even if I were skum... why would I suggest another losing strategy this time around?
Furthermore, my thought process on 23 was based EXACTLY on the opposite of your inference. I bid 4 last time and got really really bad placement. This time around I did not have team mates to help me with choices either, so I picked what I thought to be safe - 23. I figured that the way it was picked in the last game was pretty much the most it could be and even then it was 2 spots better then where I had ended up before.
There needs to be a better argument here. I have played this pretty straight forward the entire game. If I had been first in the claim order would it of made a difference in my bid? Should of I lied about my claim to create a smaller lynch pool or whatever? Logic seems like it was drawn up prior to the claims at all with the idea in mind that "player x bid number y so this happens to them". Which kind of sounds too pre meditated to be true.
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Also note that we now know that we MUST either A) Lynch Scum, or B) Lynch the Poisoned Player. If we do neither we lose as there is no more potential protection.
e is potentially a 1-Shot Roleblocker and there is not Strongman, so not quite. Not that it matters.
You agree we should lynch within the VTs, but who do you think it should be ?
I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
DatSwan bid and won Roleblocker last game with a much worse bid as scum. I could absolutely see him going for it again. I'll need to reread from a "He's scum, what supports it" perspective, but he would make a good RB candidate. I doubt very much that he beat everybody to bid #1, although DO note that he bid 4 last time. So he COULD easily be the Poisoner.
RR... man. I apparently broke him D2, when he wrote a book self arguing. At this point I'm just completely lost on what to think of him. But... I guess end of the day, like Faust, he doesn't read his normal townie self to me. So.
That probably wasn't helpful?
Let's look at who amongst us could reasonably be #1:
I don't think there's a strong argument for me being #1: Unless scum is running a triple switch, then me flipping with Iguana doesn't make sense. What would Iguana have bid on from 4 that he got VT if he knew I bid 1 and got Poisoner?
DatSwan could be with a bid of #4, his bid from last game.
RR could - He wasn't in last game so could've bid anywhere.
Faust bid 23. He would've needed to see the draft results from last game and guess that he could reasonably improve by going 4/8. Note that his claimed bid choice of 3 makes far more sense - he would've been draft #2 in the previous reroll (prior to SM mechanics). So I doubt he's #1.
On that note, I want to believe Space poisoned me last night - but I think that's paranoia. Space also doesn't make sense for bid #1 unless scum is running a triple switch.
Let's look at how bids changed from one game to the other:
Lost Numbers: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
DatSwan: 4 (15th) -> 23 (10). Had bids been exactly the same as the first game, this offers no potential bid improvement.
Faust: 23 (10th) -> 3 (15th). Had this been exactly the same as the first game, he would've imported to #2. This is logical from Faust.
Galz: 7 (8th) -> 42 (4th). Yadda yadda... I would've improved to #2.
RR: No info.
All this adds up to, prior to reads, I think the best lynch is probably:
Swan
With RR being the most random, and Faust (from a numbers perspective) being the worst (behind me, who I think is least likely to be Poisoner (although you could argue that I'm a good candidate for RB))
I don't get it. The skum thread is released from the re roll. I am in there stating I thought 4 and 8 should be bid over based on the ideal that we need to blanket the top numbers as a team. I also have never done this with any of the people before here. I got Draft 15... so that didn't work. In a world where I make the same decisions in a different game for some reason, even if I were skum... why would I suggest another losing strategy this time around?
Furthermore, my thought process on 23 was based EXACTLY on the opposite of your inference. I bid 4 last time and got really really bad placement. This time around I did not have team mates to help me with choices either, so I picked what I thought to be safe - 23. I figured that the way it was picked in the last game was pretty much the most it could be and even then it was 2 spots better then where I had ended up before.
There needs to be a better argument here. I have played this pretty straight forward the entire game. If I had been first in the claim order would it of made a difference in my bid? Should of I lied about my claim to create a smaller lynch pool or whatever? Logic seems like it was drawn up prior to the claims at all with the idea in mind that "player x bid number y so this happens to them". Which kind of sounds too pre meditated to be true.
Want to re-itterate on the last line here - when I say "too pre mediated to be true", I don't mean that I think Galz is skummy for it, or at least I don't think he is Skum should we say. I just the approach is silly. Obviously, everyone would say that in my situation whether skum or town yeah yeah I get it. But for real... based on this logic the skummiest person here IMO that is in the lynch pool is removed from play simply because he wasn't in before the re roll...
I don't know how to help in this situation. I don't want to fight back with an alternative suggested lynch because I feel like it will fuel the fire. Normally as VT I would give zero shits, but if I lynch, then I will flip VT. And when I flip VT, it is gonna put us in a awkward spot because there is really nothing to be learned from me so far. I am an open book... the problem is my book contains like 3 pieces of information and that is that I am a VT that bid 23, got 10, tried for barracks and failed.
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So your thought to improve was to go from the most popular choice to the second most popular choice?
Whether or not taking 4 or 8 worked out for scum last game, they DID bid those again this game and they DID work out. As Space noted, they were fine with going 8 last game even though the risk of being bumped was there. Still a decent chance to get a PR (as you did with 4). Further, it's not unreasonable to expect people to bail off 4 after seeing the results from last game.
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So your thought to improve was to go from the most popular choice to the second most popular choice?
Whether or not taking 4 or 8 worked out for scum last game, they DID bid those again this game and they DID work out. As Space noted, they were fine with going 8 last game even though the risk of being bumped was there. Still a decent chance to get a PR (as you did with 4). Further, it's not unreasonable to expect people to bail off 4 after seeing the results from last game.
I addressed fairly clearly... "I bid 23 because I have not played a lot with you lot and I did not have a team to help me like I did when I was skum prior to the re roll". "I thought 23 was a safe middle ground play etc..".
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Also - I am trying to imagine how I, or anyone, would play my spot here as skum...
If I were skum I would know the draft/bids/roles or whatever of all my little skum bretheren, I would know what was in the Barracks, I would know the general flip info that everyone else knows from deaths so far, and whatever the hell else might be possible in the situation. I also would of gotten to know info on everyone that claimed before me, as well as knowing that Qivst is sitting as one of the 3 people behind me as PotI.
The obvious point of claim is to narrow the lynch pool. With all of that info, why in the world wouldn't I of used all the information I had to claim out some nonsense I knew no one could prove wrong? Why would I choose to put myself in the mix of people to get lynched when I did not need to?
I wouldn't. No one would because there is no upside to not taking that advantage.
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10. DatSwan (23)
11. ???? (23)
12. ???? (5)
13. Eevee (5)
Not sure about you, but that does not work out, does it?
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Anyway, I bid 5 and got position #12.
I didn't want to be VT and as most good roles are probably gone I went for Protector of the Island and it worked out.
And yes I used it after LL was dead as I figured that I wouldn't accidently save the Smoke Monster or one of the Others now, and also saving the power isn't worth it as it isn't a losing proposition anymore.
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10. DatSwan (23)
11. ???? (23)
12. ???? (5)
13. Eevee (5)
Not sure about you, but that does not work out, does it?
Why wouldn't it? Am I missing something? A Lost Double (23) is before a non-lost Double (5)
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Oh okay, sorry, yeah. Forgot about that detail.
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisioner
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73): JoaT
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. ???? (23)
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
Qvist
gkrieg
chairs
WW
IDPTG
Jimmm
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisioner
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73): JoaT
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. ???? (23)
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
gkrieg - Draft #11 or #8: Redirector
chairs - ????: VT
WW - ????: VT
IDPTG - ????: VT
Jimmm - Probably Draft #2: 2nd Day IC
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Obv I'm guessing on Gkrieg and Jimmm, but I suspect I'm correct for both.
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What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
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Especially as only #2 and #8 are left. #2 seems like impossible, leaving only #8
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What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
Sorry, my thing above wasn't clear:
e took Barracks ahead of DatSwan, picking JoaT
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Oh, I overread that part in e's claim.
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I think faust is still the best target.
faust was very evasive and his claim to have chosen Redirector in very late position seems very scummy.
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisioner
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73): JoaT
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. ???? (23)
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
gkrieg - Draft #11 or #8: Redirector
chairs - ????: VT
WW - ????: VT
IDPTG - ????: VT
Jimmm - Probably Draft #2: 2nd Day IC
Error here. Chairs is not VT. He flipped N3 Forensic. Not a huge deal but it should be noted in case it helps us isolate a lie later.
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I don't think Jimmmm would have gone for Day 2 IC at #2. I'd bet on that slot being taken by one of the VTs (WW would be my guess) who went for Poisoner.
Either that or Arch/chairs going for N3 Forensic Scientist there, because if you think about it, it would have broken the game open here. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but had chairs not been killed, we'd be lynching the Poisoner right now.
I guess that's more likely because we know Jimm is higher than O and we "know" gkrieg is higher than faust.
I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
The logic here is that I think it's very likely scum bid on at least 3 Lost numbers. If that is true, that means this group has 2 scum in it, which is pretty nice odds.
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Actually, upon further thought, I think you're correct regarding Jimmm. He bid Masons from draft #3 in M100. He conceivably would've done similar here. I thought he had argued that IC was better than Vig there, but that was somebody else.
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Wow. So....
*crickets*
Anybody care to find the remaining scum as we lose here if we don't...?
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I don't think Jimmmm would have gone for Day 2 IC at #2. I'd bet on that slot being taken by one of the VTs (WW would be my guess) who went for Poisoner.
Either that or Arch/chairs going for N3 Forensic Scientist there, because if you think about it, it would have broken the game open here. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but had chairs not been killed, we'd be lynching the Poisoner right now.
I guess that's more likely because we know Jimm is higher than O and we "know" gkrieg is higher than faust.
I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
The logic here is that I think it's very likely scum bid on at least 3 Lost numbers. If that is true, that means this group has 2 scum in it, which is pretty nice odds.
I mean the logic makes sense I guess, but why 3 lost numbers? Wouldn't the play be to cover 2 best of 2 best sections to hold down the top rank when moving from singles to doubles and doubles to triples, and etc?
And if not, then why would they plan to go for 3 only instead of all 4 on Lost Numbers? Wouldn't that increase their chances the most for role selection. Additionally, the more LN's they cover the easier it will be for them to determine the potential roles that are taken. The only exception to this I suppose would be to go 3 lost numbers and then one crazy outlier to determine where the crazy outlier falls on the "scoring system".
Using the info from Lost number rank plus something that is like -5 off of a number or whatever could actually of been a plan I can see being drafted up.
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As I don't have a better pick.
Vote: faust
Maybe he is not the Poisoner, but still better pick than potentially lynching a townie.
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I don't think Jimmmm would have gone for Day 2 IC at #2. I'd bet on that slot being taken by one of the VTs (WW would be my guess) who went for Poisoner.
Either that or Arch/chairs going for N3 Forensic Scientist there, because if you think about it, it would have broken the game open here. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but had chairs not been killed, we'd be lynching the Poisoner right now.
I guess that's more likely because we know Jimm is higher than O and we "know" gkrieg is higher than faust.
I don't think we should lynch Faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
The logic here is that I think it's very likely scum bid on at least 3 Lost numbers. If that is true, that means this group has 2 scum in it, which is pretty nice odds.
In regards to having the lynch pool dictated by lost numbers - I think the ideal of creating a lynch pool based upon "x amount of lost numbers bid for by skum" is actually a decent idea... but the likelihood that the poisoner is claimed under a lost number at this point is really quite low. We are currently acting under the assumption that the Skum plan was to do the whole switcharoo thing... Why would the poisoner switch to a suspicious number?
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Me and Teproc both probably don't want to lynch Faust.
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I don't think Jimmmm would have gone for Day 2 IC at #2. I'd bet on that slot being taken by one of the VTs (WW would be my guess) who went for Poisoner.
Either that or Arch/chairs going for N3 Forensic Scientist there, because if you think about it, it would have broken the game open here. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but had chairs not been killed, we'd be lynching the Poisoner right now.
I guess that's more likely because we know Jimm is higher than O and we "know" gkrieg is higher than faust.
I don't think we should lynch Faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
The logic here is that I think it's very likely scum bid on at least 3 Lost numbers. If that is true, that means this group has 2 scum in it, which is pretty nice odds.
In regards to having the lynch pool dictated by lost numbers - I think the ideal of creating a lynch pool based upon "x amount of lost numbers bid for by skum" is actually a decent idea... but the likelihood that the poisoner is claimed under a lost number at this point is really quite low. We are currently acting under the assumption that the Skum plan was to do the whole switcharoo thing... Why would the poisoner switch to a suspicious number?
My running theory is that it's a reasonable strategy for scum to fan out all 4 to different lost numbers, to give the highest chance at Poisoner, the most broken role by a mile.
Of course I personally didn't read enough or realize how broken poisoner was at game start, so i'm assuming scum collectively were smarter than I.
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Me and Teproc both probably don't want to lynch Faust.
why?
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I actually think Swan is probably right about scum going for a big outlier (like e), to get a handle on where the break between unique numbers and non -unique numbers lie. It's got a good shot at being middle+ on the pack, and does better the more duplicates there are. Take 3 Lost bids with it, and either you're getting good drafts with the Lost Numbers, or you're improving the value of the outlier.
Add in that e (as claimed) could be the person that RB'd LL night 2, I think he's highest chance of flipping scum.
However, I do believe that Teproc is correct in that - at least - one of the remaining scum took a Lost Number (if not 2), and since I'm not scum...
The question is, while we remain in LyLo until the Poisoner is lynched, the longer we survive the narrower the field gets. Is it worth the gamble to try and snag the Poisoner now, or do we go for our best guess at scum?
If it's the former, I'm voting RR/Swan (Probably Swan). If it's the latter I'm voting e.
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Me and Teproc both probably don't want to lynch Faust.
why?
because you want to lynch a lost number person?
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Me and Teproc both probably don't want to lynch Faust.
why?
because you want to lynch a lost number person?
Yea. We have someone in mind but I'll wait for Teproc to come to confirm that we both want to start pushing them right now.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
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I saw Walt. Then I saw him over there. Then I saw him over there. Much Walt! Wow.
Vote Count 4.2
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (7): Eevee, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, O, DatSwan, faust
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
Playing it safe? I've been one of the few people bothering to push after and question literally everything in our situation.
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Anyway, you won't lynch me today, so that's a wasted vote. Try harder.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
Playing it safe? I've been one of the few people bothering to push after and question literally everything in our situation.
yeah, and this is why i think Galzria is town. I think his theories are a little too crazy for scum.
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So, people think faust is town because he is too scummy to be scum, and you don't see scum!faust playing like this?
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So, people think faust is town because he is too scummy to be scum, and you don't see scum!faust playing like this?
I've said this yes - however I've also noted that I've never seen scum!Faust from a town perspective before. That is, the only time I've seen him as scum I was the Traitor and knew he was scum - so my read on him was biased.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
The logic here is that I think it's very likely scum bid on at least 3 Lost numbers. If that is true, that means this group has 2 scum in it, which is pretty nice odds.
I think that {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} makes sense to find scum, but I don't think it is Galzria. I am much more suspicious of Space or DatSwan, more Space because of my gut. Basically, I think scum!Space would totally take watcher. I would need to reread Space for a better idea. That being said, gut points me to Space in that group.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
So, the thought that Galzria is scum who failed at getting poisoner is valid I think. It goes back to the whole long con that scum is pulling regarding poisoner. Basically, the scum team wins with 3 (or even 2) "mislynches" (say had the SK actually killed someone). We actually have done extremely well given the strategy taken by scum. (ok, yeah, the complaining about the setup disadvantage is valid...I am doing it now).
But, I just don't think that is where we are going to find the poisoner, even if Galz is scum.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
Playing it safe? I've been one of the few people bothering to push after and question literally everything in our situation.
You've equivocated on pretty much every statement of opinion possible.
Vote: Galzria
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I'm very limited availability all day tomorrow (and was today). I'll do some rereads on sunday to see who I'd like to lynch.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
Playing it safe? I've been one of the few people bothering to push after and question literally everything in our situation.
You've equivocated on pretty much every statement of opinion possible.
Vote: Galzria
Weird. Almost like I have no concrete information.
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I think all other targets than faust are just shots in the dark that will likely make us lose. For faust there is at least decent indication/evidence.
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I think all other targets than faust are just shots in the dark that will likely make us lose. For faust there is at least decent indication/evidence.
Faust's actions are scummier than Galzria's and Galzria's actions are scummier than Faust's.
If me and Teproc get no support for the Galzria lynch though (as seems like it might be the case...) Faust was very much second on my list.
Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
Playing it safe? I've been one of the few people bothering to push after and question literally everything in our situation.
You've equivocated on pretty much every statement of opinion possible.
Vote: Galzria
Weird. Almost like I have no concrete information.
Well I'm talking about opinions, right. And it's also highly plausible actions for someone whose sole primary objective is to not appear scummy themselves.
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Well. This is how this ends:
I'm town. There's 7 town, 3 scum. It takes 6 to lynch. If O and Teproc are town then their commitment to lynching me has just cost town the game. Even if I could convince all 4 other town to vote for DatSwan, or RR, or e, or Space, or whoever - it's not enough to lynch. We only number 5 without town!O and town!Teproc, and it takes 6 to lynch.
So, the only chance town has is if Tep and O are in fact scum. That still leaves the possibility that we can rally to win.
vote: Teproc as the only viable option.
If you do lynch me, the only saving hope we have is that I'm poisoned right now. I've confirmed with Robz that if we fail to lynch scum, or the poisoned player, and there are in fact no ways to stop scum tonight then he will, indeed, call the game immediately.
In the event that the game is still going on: Scum are likely e (Roleblocker/Joat), Swan (Poisoneer), Space (Watcher).
Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
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Well. This is how this ends:
I'm town. There's 7 town, 3 scum. It takes 6 to lynch. If O and Teproc are town then their commitment to lynching me has just cost town the game. Even if I could convince all 4 other town to vote for DatSwan, or RR, or e, or Space, or whoever - it's not enough to lynch. We only number 5 without town!O and town!Teproc, and it takes 6 to lynch.
So, the only chance town has is if Tep and O are in fact scum. That still leaves the possibility that we can rally to win.
vote: Teproc as the only viable option.
If you do lynch me, the only saving hope we have is that I'm poisoned right now. I've confirmed with Robz that if we fail to lynch scum, or the poisoned player, and there are in fact no ways to stop scum tonight then he will, indeed, call the game immediately.
In the event that the game is still going on: Scum are likely e (Roleblocker/Joat), Swan (Poisoneer), Space (Watcher).
Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
This is literally all false.
1) Despite being in LYLO putting 2 votes on you does not give scum the chance to hammer you.
2) I literally said in the post above that if people are not willing to vote for you over Faust, Faust is my second choice.
I think this response is incredibly scummy though.
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Well. This is how this ends:
I'm town. There's 7 town, 3 scum. It takes 6 to lynch. If O and Teproc are town then their commitment to lynching me has just cost town the game. Even if I could convince all 4 other town to vote for DatSwan, or RR, or e, or Space, or whoever - it's not enough to lynch. We only number 5 without town!O and town!Teproc, and it takes 6 to lynch.
So, the only chance town has is if Tep and O are in fact scum. That still leaves the possibility that we can rally to win.
vote: Teproc as the only viable option.
If you do lynch me, the only saving hope we have is that I'm poisoned right now. I've confirmed with Robz that if we fail to lynch scum, or the poisoned player, and there are in fact no ways to stop scum tonight then he will, indeed, call the game immediately.
In the event that the game is still going on: Scum are likely e (Roleblocker/Joat), Swan (Poisoneer), Space (Watcher).
Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
This is literally all false.
1) Despite being in LYLO putting 2 votes on you does not give scum the chance to hammer you.
2) I literally said in the post above that if people are not willing to vote for you over Faust, Faust is my second choice.
I think this response is incredibly scummy though.
1) Scum doesn't need to hammer me. Where did I say anything about that? Do you understand what LyLo means? It means if we don't lynch scum, we lose. If you two are town, and you're voting me, it's literally 100% impossible to lynch scum - and thus, we lose. With the caveat being that I could be poisoned, which I brought up.
2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
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2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
You're a good enough player to 1. Read/make PPE's and 2. Realize it wasn't a definitive death sentence without me clarifying that.
What if all the other 4 town players voted for scum!Faust in your mind? Are you claiming you REALLY thought me and Teproc would force shove a nolynch through and lose the game?
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2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
You're a good enough player to 1. Read/make PPE's and 2. Realize it wasn't a definitive death sentence without me clarifying that.
What if all the other 4 town players voted for scum!Faust in your mind? Are you claiming you REALLY thought me and Teproc would force shove a nolynch through and lose the game?
I don't think Faust is scum.
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2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
You're a good enough player to 1. Read/make PPE's and 2. Realize it wasn't a definitive death sentence without me clarifying that.
What if all the other 4 town players voted for scum!Faust in your mind? Are you claiming you REALLY thought me and Teproc would force shove a nolynch through and lose the game?
I don't think Faust is scum.
Regarding the PPE's, I read them less than 10% of the time. I almost always phone post and they're a hassle.
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2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
You're a good enough player to 1. Read/make PPE's and 2. Realize it wasn't a definitive death sentence without me clarifying that.
What if all the other 4 town players voted for scum!Faust in your mind? Are you claiming you REALLY thought me and Teproc would force shove a nolynch through and lose the game?
I don't think Faust is scum.
Faust can be replaced with any non-Galzria,non-Mason name there.
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
I absolutely do not think you'll be lynched. But with you voting me there's no other options. Scum wins.
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
I absolutely do not think you'll be lynched. But with you voting me there's no other options. Scum wins.
I don't think town!Galz puts in this amount of fatalism to what is by no means a guaranteed loss.
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2) Was my post a response to your previous post? The one you posted 2 minutes before mine that I didn't quote?
Of course you do.
You're a good enough player to 1. Read/make PPE's and 2. Realize it wasn't a definitive death sentence without me clarifying that.
What if all the other 4 town players voted for scum!Faust in your mind? Are you claiming you REALLY thought me and Teproc would force shove a nolynch through and lose the game?
I don't think Faust is scum.
Faust can be replaced with any non-Galzria,non-Mason name there.
And I've made my lynch choices clear: Swan, e, and Space. I've put forth my best thoughts regarding each (except Space, who I just think took scum Watcher like last game). If the other town want to get on board with them, great. I'll be happy to switch. Still won't matter with you two voting me.
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
I absolutely do not think you'll be lynched. But with you voting me there's no other options. Scum wins.
I don't think town!Galz puts in this amount of fatalism to what is by no means a guaranteed loss.
Why are you trying to convince people we're not in LyLo? If you two are town, as you claim, and you vote any other townie (for which I only know that I am), town loses. End of story.
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
I absolutely do not think you'll be lynched. But with you voting me there's no other options. Scum wins.
I don't think town!Galz puts in this amount of fatalism to what is by no means a guaranteed loss.
Why are you trying to convince people we're not in LyLo? If you two are town, as you claim, and you vote any other townie (for which I only know that I am), town loses. End of story.
And if you try to argue that you're not saying that we're not in LyLo, then voting me (unless I'm poisoned) is in fact "a guaranteed loss."
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Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
In fact, this line right here is why Galzria should be lynched. If we're not scum in his mind, Town!Galzria would still be pushing for the Faust lynch since it's his only wincon by his guess right now. It wouldn't matter if Teproc is the easier lynch to push through, because the claimed difference in %chance of scum in Galzria's mind would still make Faust the better choice to push.
Scum!Galzria is thinking that with me and Teproc voting for him, we're the likelier lynch to push through than Faust. And for Scum!Galzria, a Teproc lynch is every bit as good as a Faust lynch.
I absolutely do not think you'll be lynched. But with you voting me there's no other options. Scum wins.
I don't think town!Galz puts in this amount of fatalism to what is by no means a guaranteed loss.
Why are you trying to convince people we're not in LyLo? If you two are town, as you claim, and you vote any other townie (for which I only know that I am), town loses. End of story.
And if you try to argue that you're not saying that we're not in LyLo, then voting me (unless I'm poisoned) is in fact "a guaranteed loss."
This brings up a good note.
TOWN!!! - unless you are absolutely sure you want the day to end, be careful with your votes. If what Galz says is true about the game snap ending, then if we put 3 town votes on a town player, they can just team hammer and end it.
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Here's where I'm at:
I know I'm town. I don't know about you two, or about anybody else. However I DO know that IF you're town and voting me then town has effectively lost. Therefore if I'm to believe town has any hope of winning, then I must believe that you're scum. That's probably wrong. You're probably town, and you're simply locking town into a loss. You can't know that, of course. So while I'm personally salty about it, it is what it is.
I've made my cases for my picks for scum. I think the team is:
DatSwan: Bid 4, Draft #1 - Poisoner. Taken based off his bid last time, Space claimed to have expected adjustments from the first draft. That would indicate a movement off bid #4.
Space: Bid 16, Draft #3 - Watcher. They would take it as town, and took it as scum last roll based on this meta. No reason to change it up. Got the opportunity and took it again.
Iguana: Bid 23, Draft #10 - VT. Could have bid anything, but probably went Jailkeeper, losing to LaLight. The claim for Swan going Barracks and failing here works because:
e: Bid 73, Draft #9 - Barracks, JoaT/RB. He knew e took it ahead of him. This claim has good middle ground coverage and tells scum where the separation between unique bids and doubles lTH. On the off chance his teammates got bounced above, his position would improve.
I would like to lynch Swan. I think he's the poisoner. But unless you two are willing to support me in this (or Space or e) it doesn't matter.
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unvote. You're not scum. My voting you doesn't actually help anyone other than me vent frustration. Instead, vote: Swan. I'll live, die or lose by my conviction.
Yes, O, I've taken every which way to Sunday today on my opinions. Look at 100 and tell me I do that as scum. I'm far more measured and in control as scum. I know what I want and I pursue it with purpose. As town I try to reason and rationalize everything. I try to understand. The best way I'm able to do that is to try and argue every side of every issue to find what makes sense to me.
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Here's where I'm at:
I know I'm town. I don't know about you two, or about anybody else. However I DO know that IF you're town and voting me then town has effectively lost. Therefore if I'm to believe town has any hope of winning, then I must believe that you're scum. That's probably wrong. You're probably town, and you're simply locking town into a loss. You can't know that, of course. So while I'm personally salty about it, it is what it is.
I've made my cases for my picks for scum. I think the team is:
DatSwan: Bid 4, Draft #1 - Poisoner. Taken based off his bid last time, Space claimed to have expected adjustments from the first draft. That would indicate a movement off bid #4.
Space: Bid 16, Draft #3 - Watcher. They would take it as town, and took it as scum last roll based on this meta. No reason to change it up. Got the opportunity and took it again.
Iguana: Bid 23, Draft #10 - VT. Could have bid anything, but probably went Jailkeeper, losing to LaLight. The claim for Swan going Barracks and failing here works because:
e: Bid 73, Draft #9 - Barracks, JoaT/RB. He knew e took it ahead of him. This claim has good middle ground coverage and tells scum where the separation between unique bids and doubles lTH. On the off chance his teammates got bounced above, his position would improve.
I would like to lynch Swan. I think he's the poisoner. But unless you two are willing to support me in this (or Space or e) it doesn't matter.
So you think that I would of moved off of a bid of 4... but that I also bid 4?
And also again I have to bring this up. With this situation where there is a skum team plan switch a roo thing.... If I am the poisoner... Why would I pick something suspicious like VT? Why wouldn't someone in that situation pick from a list of roles that gives them more credibility?
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I would like to really hear from the lurkers. I have the feeling the same people talk here. Eevee posted at least that he will re-read. RR hasn't posted since he claimed bids. Space, IIRC, hasn't posted in quite a while either. What are your thoughts? I have the feeling this might be town vs. town here and scum is leaning back and laughing.
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Here's where I'm at:
I know I'm town. I don't know about you two, or about anybody else. However I DO know that IF you're town and voting me then town has effectively lost. Therefore if I'm to believe town has any hope of winning, then I must believe that you're scum. That's probably wrong. You're probably town, and you're simply locking town into a loss. You can't know that, of course. So while I'm personally salty about it, it is what it is.
I've made my cases for my picks for scum. I think the team is:
DatSwan: Bid 4, Draft #1 - Poisoner. Taken based off his bid last time, Space claimed to have expected adjustments from the first draft. That would indicate a movement off bid #4.
Space: Bid 16, Draft #3 - Watcher. They would take it as town, and took it as scum last roll based on this meta. No reason to change it up. Got the opportunity and took it again.
Iguana: Bid 23, Draft #10 - VT. Could have bid anything, but probably went Jailkeeper, losing to LaLight. The claim for Swan going Barracks and failing here works because:
e: Bid 73, Draft #9 - Barracks, JoaT/RB. He knew e took it ahead of him. This claim has good middle ground coverage and tells scum where the separation between unique bids and doubles lTH. On the off chance his teammates got bounced above, his position would improve.
I would like to lynch Swan. I think he's the poisoner. But unless you two are willing to support me in this (or Space or e) it doesn't matter.
So you think that I would of moved off of a bid of 4... but that I also bid 4?
And also again I have to bring this up. With this situation where there is a skum team plan switch a roo thing.... If I am the poisoner... Why would I pick something suspicious like VT? Why wouldn't someone in that situation pick from a list of roles that gives them more credibility?
No, scum wouldn't surrender 4 to a potential town that stays on. But the majority of town that bid it before would exodus away to greener pastures - which is evidenced they did.
The problem with both your defenses is: "Scum wouldn't have stayed on 4, because 4 failed last time." - Except that's exactly what they did (or 8, but I'm inclined to believe 4).
And
"Scum would come up with a convoluted fakeclaim - except apparently they didn't. Do you think O/Tep are scum? Eevee? Qvist? Space? e? You've made no cases on anyone, but your defense is essentially that the PR's must be scum. And two probably are. But we fakeclaiming is dangerous, and admitting to being a VT makes you 1-in-4 where a mislynch means scum wins outright. Not a bad proposition.
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The biggest drawback to my beliefs is that it would put 3 scum in the Candidates thread. I'm not maths oriented enough to tell you the exact chances of that - but I would assume it's relatively small. That said, random is random and has no bias.
For the record, these were the (stated, not confirmed) votes cast by Candidates N1:
Iguana voted Swan
Teproc voted Swan
Eevee voted Swan
Swan voted Swan (we were supposed to not vote for oneself)
Galzria voted Teproc
e voted Teproc
Swan investigated me at night.
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1) Never said skum wouldn't stay on 4. Either getting me mixed up with someone else or mis understanding something, IDK which.
2) I am not saying that all PRs must be the skum. I am saying that specifically, in this exact situation I was 3rd from the bottom to bid. If I am skum, then I must assume that Teproc and O are telling the truth, or they are my skum buddies, either way 0 is 1/3 of the people behind me obviously anything I say he will not contradict in that scenario right?
Then there is Qivst, who IMO is clearly the role he has claimed to be.
Then there is E! Who either is skum in this situation or not. Either way, doesn't matter because IF I am skum, and E! is skum then O isn't skum, or if I am skum and O is skum (then since Teproc is skum), E! isn't skum.
All of that is to point out that if Skum!Swan is the poisoner in a situation where only one person behind me could out me if I lied about my claim... with all of the infinite amounts of information I have... Assuming VT looks more suspicious than claiming a PR at that point does (which obv it does).... Why the hell would I in that Skum!Swan scenario CHOOSE to put myself in the VT pile? I wouldn't... I never would, that is absurd.
That is horribly formatted, sorry... but hopefully the point gets across... fake claiming is dangerous in that situation... unless you know all of the damn information. As Town!Swan, I almost could puzzle out the chart just based on what I had to work with. Add in knowledge of 3 other Skum Players, and the person in that spot could make up whatever they freeking wanted!
I don't want to ramp the vote against you right now. And honestly I don't know where your read is coming from. I would invite you to go back and read me without the pregame logic, just because - same point as you made - unless I am poisoned, if I die, then we lose.
Last Point - I have not made any accusations, because I do not have any to make really. I think you are town. At this point I believe the Mason claims. I think Qivst is town. I am on the fence about Space, but leaning town. Faust seems skummy to me for the flaily-ness and the weird not wanting to vote. I think there must be a skum between RR and E!, if we somehow get it right today I think the flip will help guess who?
Did I miss someone?
At this point I need to re read and I would like to get in put from other non-vocal players. I think I answered all your questions though, lmk if not and I will get back.
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The biggest drawback to my beliefs is that it would put 3 scum in the Candidates thread. I'm not maths oriented enough to tell you the exact chances of that - but I would assume it's relatively small. That said, random is random and has no bias.
For the record, these were the (stated, not confirmed) votes cast by Candidates N1:
Iguana voted Swan
Teproc voted Swan
Eevee voted Swan
Swan voted Swan (we were supposed to not vote for oneself)
Galzria voted Teproc
e voted Teproc
Swan investigated me at night.
2 things:
1) you are aware of my reasoning, which I followed through with for voting for myself. that is why I checked you, to confirm you as non-SM and then said you should have the vote since we know you are not SM.
2) Same logic as the whole claiming thing. Why would I admit to voting for myself if I were skum?
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going home now. will re read stuff and get back tonight/tomorrow.
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For reference, pure vote history on the three. Will look at interactions (or lack thereof as I noticed pulling the below) in a bit.
Swan vote history:
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Roadrunner
- IDPTG
- LL
2.7 vote history:
- LL
- Gkrieg
- IDPTG
- iguana
- faust
Space vote history:
- Gkrieg
- LL
- LL
- Iguana
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1) Never said skum wouldn't stay on 4. Either getting me mixed up with someone else or mis understanding something, IDK which.
2) I am not saying that all PRs must be the skum. I am saying that specifically, in this exact situation I was 3rd from the bottom to bid. If I am skum, then I must assume that Teproc and O are telling the truth, or they are my skum buddies, either way 0 is 1/3 of the people behind me obviously anything I say he will not contradict in that scenario right?
Then there is Qivst, who IMO is clearly the role he has claimed to be.
Then there is E! Who either is skum in this situation or not. Either way, doesn't matter because IF I am skum, and E! is skum then O isn't skum, or if I am skum and O is skum (then since Teproc is skum), E! isn't skum.
All of that is to point out that if Skum!Swan is the poisoner in a situation where only one person behind me could out me if I lied about my claim... with all of the infinite amounts of information I have... Assuming VT looks more suspicious than claiming a PR at that point does (which obv it does).... Why the hell would I in that Skum!Swan scenario CHOOSE to put myself in the VT pile? I wouldn't... I never would, that is absurd.
That is horribly formatted, sorry... but hopefully the point gets across... fake claiming is dangerous in that situation... unless you know all of the damn information. As Town!Swan, I almost could puzzle out the chart just based on what I had to work with. Add in knowledge of 3 other Skum Players, and the person in that spot could make up whatever they freeking wanted!
I don't want to ramp the vote against you right now. And honestly I don't know where your read is coming from. I would invite you to go back and read me without the pregame logic, just because - same point as you made - unless I am poisoned, if I die, then we lose.
Last Point - I have not made any accusations, because I do not have any to make really. I think you are town. At this point I believe the Mason claims. I think Qivst is town. I am on the fence about Space, but leaning town. Faust seems skummy to me for the flaily-ness and the weird not wanting to vote. I think there must be a skum between RR and E!, if we somehow get it right today I think the flip will help guess who?
Did I miss someone?
At this point I need to re read and I would like to get in put from other non-vocal players. I think I answered all your questions though, lmk if not and I will get back.
1) You're saying that YOU wouldn't have stayed on 4 if you're scum. I'm saying that scum obviously stayed on 4, so if I think you're scum it's a perfectly valid place for you to be. As you bid it last time and there was likely to be an exodus from it after the last roll, it's also a reasonable place for you to be.
2) Yes, you would have all the information by this point. But as I mentioned, placing yourself amongst the VT's isn't neccesarily the worst thing ever. If scum get the mislynch today, they win. That's 1-in-4 odds. The remaining scum would be 2-in-6. Scum wouldn't WANT to place all 3 in the same pool. There's no real way to predict which pool we would want to lynch from, and this spreads things out. It's also by FAR the easiest, because it's likely accurate. The closer scum can stick to the truth, the easier they'll have it. Additionally, look at the stations not taken: The Arrow (Station Two), The Flame (Station Four), The Staff (Station Seven), and The Looking Glass (Station Eight). Claiming The Flame is straight up out, because you would be the Day Vig, and you're not. Claiming The Arrow would mean you need to produce cop results - dangerous at the best of times for scum. The Looking Glass doesn't really have anything town could reasonably go for. You could claim The Staff and Doctor, and that might buy you a no-lynch today - but that is really about it. I think claiming VT as scum in your spot is absolutely the right play here. There's enough other VT's around - and especially ones back like you - to make it good enough cover that you'll likely not be the lynch.
The biggest drawback to my beliefs is that it would put 3 scum in the Candidates thread. I'm not maths oriented enough to tell you the exact chances of that - but I would assume it's relatively small. That said, random is random and has no bias.
For the record, these were the (stated, not confirmed) votes cast by Candidates N1:
Iguana voted Swan
Teproc voted Swan
Eevee voted Swan
Swan voted Swan (we were supposed to not vote for oneself)
Galzria voted Teproc
e voted Teproc
Swan investigated me at night.
2 things:
1) you are aware of my reasoning, which I followed through with for voting for myself. that is why I checked you, to confirm you as non-SM and then said you should have the vote since we know you are not SM.
2) Same logic as the whole claiming thing. Why would I admit to voting for myself if I were skum?
I will reread. I never saw reasoning. And it's hardly as damning to vote for yourself to secure the vote if there's 3 scum in the thread. :P
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I'm definitely feeling swan over galz here, but I think
Faust is my favorite
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@Space I almost want to risk the game on policy lynching you at this point, since it's far more frustrating losing to a lurker than a scum!Galz or scum!Faust here.
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I'm definitely feeling swan over galz here, but I think
Faust is my favorite
I would have loved more info. Would you mind explaining why you think so?
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@Space I almost want to risk the game on policy lynching you at this point, since it's far more frustrating losing to a lurker than a scum!Galz or scum!Faust here.
The first game I played on the forum I learned that policy lynching lurkers is not really a winning strategy
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@Space I almost want to risk the game on policy lynching you at this point, since it's far more frustrating losing to a lurker than a scum!Galz or scum!Faust here.
The first game I played on the forum I learned that policy lynching lurkers is not really a winning strategy
it is some of the time though.
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Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
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@Space I almost want to risk the game on policy lynching you at this point, since it's far more frustrating losing to a lurker than a scum!Galz or scum!Faust here.
The first game I played on the forum I learned that policy lynching lurkers is not really a winning strategy
it is some of the time though.
True. I would be down to lynch space, don't get me wrong. But not because they are lurking.
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OK I have done some reading and it is extremely late so reasoning will have to follow if needed... But I am not seeing the Space case here. I get that yeah it is probably what he would do if X and Y happened and he is Skum!Space but, it just seems too perfect.
I re read as Skum!Space and I re read as Town!Space... I can see arguments fo finding links to Skum!Space, but they all can be inferred as how a Town Tracker would play. I just don't see them being the lynch. Even if I am wrong and they are skum then we still miss the poisoner I think? There is no way for skum to talk during the day so if they were skum, and pulling a poisoner-watcher switch - why would they pick to claim tracking a high profile target like Galz last night? They could not of known it was true.
Obviously I also am against lynching myself. But I am kind of over defending that at this point. If anyone wants to pursue it I will be happy to elaborate further.
Faust is quite clearly skum.
I get that we are trying to find the poisoner, and that because of this he isn't the one who is poisoned.... but if our lynch pool consists of the 1) the AFK dude that pops in with numbers every once and a while, 2) skum!Faust, and 3) Me...
Then we have a problem because only one of us is for sure flipping skum in that group and I cannot believe he is the poisoner as played.
I think we need to consider the outlier idea, that the poisoner would be deliberately quiet to just stay out of action. I said it day 1 and I will say it again. RR.
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Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
If you believe my claim (and you must since you think I'm town) why do you think Space is scum?
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Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
If you believe my claim (and you must since you think I'm town) why do you think Space is scum?
I don't understand the contradiction here. You went for watcher and failed. Space went for Watcher and got it. Role is independent of alignment.
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I don't think we should lynch space today. I think faust/DatSwan is the lynch for today in my opinion. I still have time to develop my read on Space. They are the most gut/hunch read of the group.
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Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
If you believe my claim (and you must since you think I'm town) why do you think Space is scum?
I don't understand the contradiction here. You went for watcher and failed. Space went for Watcher and got it. Role is independent of alignment.
So you really think space went for watcher as scum again?
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For reference, pure vote history on the three. Will look at interactions (or lack thereof as I noticed pulling the below) in a bit.
Swan vote history:
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Roadrunner
- IDPTG
- LL
2.7 vote history:
- LL
- Gkrieg
- IDPTG
- iguana
- faust
Space vote history:
- Gkrieg
- LL
- LL
- Iguana
Were you going anywhere with this or mostly just collected the data and posted it for posterity?
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So anyone find it curious that RR doesn't answer my question?
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Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
If you believe my claim (and you must since you think I'm town) why do you think Space is scum?
I don't understand the contradiction here. You went for watcher and failed. Space went for Watcher and got it. Role is independent of alignment.
So you really think space went for watcher as scum again?
I think it is entirely possible. I also think we need to be careful about the "again" part of your statement. While data can be looked at from the reroll, and choices were probably different (somewhat) than the reroll, this game is independent of that one, and a decision by scum to take a townie role is not a bad one.
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For reference, pure vote history on the three. Will look at interactions (or lack thereof as I noticed pulling the below) in a bit.
Swan vote history:
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Gkrieg
- Unvote
- Roadrunner
- IDPTG
- LL
2.7 vote history:
- LL
- Gkrieg
- IDPTG
- iguana
- faust
Space vote history:
- Gkrieg
- LL
- LL
- Iguana
Were you going anywhere with this or mostly just collected the data and posted it for posterity?
Posterity. Mainly, though it isn't yet at the forefront of my cases on each of the above, it's to note the similarities between each, and the lack of interaction they've had with each other.
I'm trying to figure out a way to parse individual players for key words to see if/when one player talks to (quote) or about (reference) another individual without having to slog through a full reread of each player. Swan and Space aren't horrible, but you've got almost as many posts as I do, and it's a plain to parse.
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@Space I almost want to risk the game on policy lynching you at this point, since it's far more frustrating losing to a lurker than a scum!Galz or scum!Faust here.
Urgh.. really sorry for my lack of posts. I have half-written notes in a text buffer, but genuinely haven't had time lately to be on my computer away from work :-(
Catching up tonight for sure! (Haven't read any post below this one yet, though!)
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These are the claim notes I started the other day and didn't have time to post/follow through with. More stuff incoming once I've finished putting my thoughts together.
Teproc & O -- on the same faction because of their claim, so that helps. Claim is #1268Ӷ, bids and draft orders not claimed.
I claimed at #1350, gave all my results. (Bid 16 and came in at #3).
Eevee -- Claims tracker at #1353. Neatly takes e out of today's lynch pool by saying he didn't target N1, so can't be poisoner. Outs Qvist as protector of the island.
Qvist -- confirms PotI at #1363. The only way that could be false is if Eevee lied and also something else explained the missing NK death. That would be a really clever trick to pull off, but seems unlikely, especially because I saw him targetting Galz.
Galz -- Claims VT at #1377, having bid on poisoner. Says he bid #42, which I missed on first reading. Nice logicing there if it's true. Could just be that he has more info via the scum QT during bidding, though.
Wow, all the bickering about claim order is tedious to wade through again.
Faust -- claims VT at #1493, having bid 3, got position 15 and bid for Redirector. Seems really scummy for his resistance to the claiming exercise and his antagonising of Teproc et al. But I do think he's probably unlikely to be the poisoner, firstly because he's too obviously being scummy at this point, and secondly because I agree with the people saying that the smart thing for a scum team to do would be to hide the poisoner as another clained PR, especially since e started pushing quite a while ago to lynch amongst the VTs to catch the real poisoner after Iguana flipped goon.
RR -- claims VT who bid on Watcher at #1619. Claims to have bid 35 and got position 7. He's almost as clammed-up as I am, but I don't get the impression that lack of time is what's holding him back. I think him starting to look scummy at this point is sort of how he plays, though -- his mislynch was a bit of a black mark against me in M100.
DatSwan -- Claims VT at #1630. Says he bid 23 and got position 10. While I follow Galz's reasoning on him being the poisoner based on numbers, I think it's kind of flawed since I updated my reasoning for numbers based on the knowledge that everyone now knows how the bids went down the first time and the assumption that everyone would be trying to second-guess the new distribution.
e -- claims to be 1-shot RB (JOAT) at #1632. He says he bid 73 and got position 9. Galz earlier pointed out at #1314 about scum probably have an RB because of the way they treated LL. Though he's also pushing heavily on the lynch-a-VT part of things. This would be the perfect place for a poisoner to sit. Not sure why Eevee is so convinced he's townie rather than just non-poisoner though.. I don't see enough evidence. Oh, e has been buddying Eevee a bit too, like at #1561.
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HI, I'll be here tomorrow and have a lot of time to contribute Monday.
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Space, the missing NK -could- also be explained by Gkrieg targeting me. He could've redirected an attempted kill to a dead player.
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Lynching and wagon thoughts...
Let's take Teproc and O out of the pool for now. That leaves three PRs and four VTs to pick bewteen.
Qvist could in theory be scum if he is PotI, but it's unlikely because it looks like the Others' kill was blocked that night, and it seems a silly way to play it. Alternatively, he could be some other role, and Eevee could be lying, but that only works if he targeted Galz in his other-role capacity, and there aren't that many things for him secretly to be. Notably, if there's an RB then it could be him in this scenario, but the likelihood is really low. Anyway, I'm happy considering him a not-today lynch, so that leaves two claimed PRs and four claimed VTs.
Eevee could entirely be scum, and seems to have posted a bunch of stuff that could be seen as trying to frame me, from the ominous-sounding "I have a result on Space" coming into D4 to the fact that he then pushed me to full-claim before he gave his evidence, and conveniently then just claimed to have tracked me targetting the person I actually watched.
e holds a scummy PR and claims town. He has Eevee's trust as non-poisoner, so if Eevee is town, e is not the poisoner, but could still very well be scum, so no taking him out of today's pool.
Then there's Galz, faust, RR and Datswan, all of whom claim VT. I feel like with the bid coordination, scum almost certainly has more than one PR (i.e. not just poisoner), but it's also entirely possible that one of the PRs (say a RB or something?) is actually hiding out in the VTs.
D1 wagon stuff: RR, faust, e, DatSwan and Eevee were all on-wagon for the IDP mislynch d1. Galz and I were off-wagon, sitting on LL.
D2 wagon stuff: DatSwan, Galz, Eevee, RR and I were all on-wagon for the correct LL lynch (though he's third-faction, and we don't know whether scum knew that). faust was voting gkrieg (known town), and e didn't vote all day.
D3 wagon stuff: DatSwan and faust were not voting; most people were correctly on-wagon.
Galz -- Always right.
e -- Right 1/3.
DatSwan -- Right 1/3.
Eevee -- Right 2/3.
RR -- Right 2/3.
faust -- Never right.
Space -- Always right.
Someone in M100 called my wagon history there "too perfect", since scum are the ones who know wither a lynch is good or bad. Note that Galz has the same perfect record this time, and also that it's unlikely that scum knew LL was also scum, so they probably didn't have as much incentive as we did to push his lynch through.
I think faust is just too scummy to be the poisoner, but I'd quite like a recap of why it's not a terrible idea just to lynch obv!scum now and work on finding the poisoner from a reduced pool tomorrow.
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Space, the missing NK -could- also be explained by Gkrieg targeting me. He could've redirected an attempted kill to a dead player.
Does that mean that the attempted kill had to be from Qvist, or performed by a ninja, though? Otherwise I think I'd have seen a third player targeting you.
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Space, the missing NK -could- also be explained by Gkrieg targeting me. He could've redirected an attempted kill to a dead player.
Does that mean that the attempted kill had to be from Qvist, or performed by a ninja, though? Otherwise I think I'd have seen a third player targeting you.
I don't think it's likely, but don't think it should be overlooked either.
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Had 2 minutes to catch up on Space's posts. Space, while calling scum teams is almost always frowned upon it's definitely something that's been on my mind because somewhere the bids just... have to make sense. I believe what I've proposed for You/Swan/e/iguana does that.
I'm not against reconsidering my position on Faust. The point that you've made regarding vote history is valid. I was 100% wrong on votes in M100 while you were 100% correct - and (I, as scum) argued you were too perfect to be town.
Here, Faust is in that situation of being 100% wrong. That said, his sample size is far smaller (3 lynches), and Iguana was lynched primarily by those who logged on - so it's not quite fair to hold that one against him (I'm assuming he didn't post D3, but could be wrong).
But if Faust is scum, he could either be the Poisoner (most agree that's unlikely), or something else. If he's not the Poisoner, he wasn't bid 4/8. So what's the scum team that reasonably gets them Poisoner?
That's my primary reason for being on Swan right now. I think he and RR had the best chance based on history (or lack thereof) of bidding 4/8. Yes, this game is completely independent of the first game, but the knowledge of the first game absolutely impacted choices in the bidding process of this game. Who reasonably gets draft #1?
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Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
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Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
Not really. And while he MAY play this way as scum, no way he does it as Poisoner.
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Space, the missing NK -could- also be explained by Gkrieg targeting me. He could've redirected an attempted kill to a dead player.
Does that mean that the attempted kill had to be from Qvist, or performed by a ninja, though? Otherwise I think I'd have seen a third player targeting you.
So... just saying.
GK re directs actions from Galz onto himself.
Qivst shields the Candidates giving Galz a shield.
The shield gets transferred from Galz to GK.
There was no NK so the assumption is that a kill was attempted on either GK or Galz - either way ending up on GK.
If we think the options are either NK went somewhere else, or it was Qivst, or it was a ninja I just want to throw out another option...
Team is Galz, Space , XXXX... Galz shot at GK, Space watched Galz.
Just the obvious thought that came to mind. I need to look back to consider if I actually think it is likely but yeah.
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Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
Not really. And while he MAY play this way as scum, no way he does it as Poisoner.
I wasn't necessarily referring to his play, but more that he is the type of person who gets #1 bid. Or space.
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I am honestly not following some of these conspiracy theories as closely as I might. My rule of thumb for mafia: the simplest solution is often the right one
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Had dream. Man patted my head, I loved it. He said, "Go wake Jack."
Vote Count 4.3
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (2): Teproc, O
DatSwan (1): Galzria
Not Voting (5): Eevee, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, DatSwan, faust
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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I'll get to rereading in a couple of hours.
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I don't see why we shouldn't lynch faust if we're very confident he's scum. The pool will be narrowed with the kills tonight, and our PRs might be able to get something.
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I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
You might want to put some work into your reads then. And by developing reads I don't mean wildly speculating about bids which does not lead anywhere at all.
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So... I trust Qvist to be smart enough to figure all this out anyway, but we have (purely bids here)
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisioner
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73): JoaT
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. ???? (23)
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
gkrieg - Draft #11 or #8: Redirector
chairs - ????: VT
WW - ????: VT
IDPTG - ????: VT
Jimmm - Probably Draft #2: 2nd Day IC
I am again completely thrown off by the fact that noone went for the strongest role, Gunsmith. I want to say that makes all top spots considerably scummy. The again noone went for is last time and I was stunned by that fact there as well. Still, it makes Space and Galzria scummier as they went for slots that are more useful for scum over slots that help only town, and are better for town.
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What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
Why is that? I made a power ranking of the slots in the first run and had Barracks at position 6. It's pretty strong.
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I think faust is still the best target.
faust was very evasive and his claim to have chosen Redirector in very late position seems very scummy.
I do not get you. You agreed that Teproc should not claim last. This is what I was trying to achieve by being "evasive", and I succeeded. So I did something that you seem to think is pro-town, why is that scummy.
Second - why do you think choosing Redirector at my position is scummy? It's not. It gives me quite important information with little downside. Obviously I am biting myself in the ass for not having gone for Gunsmith, but that wasn't really foreseeable.
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I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
You might want to put some work into your reads then. And by developing reads I don't mean wildly speculating about bids which does not lead anywhere at all.
I don't think I need advice from you on how to successfully play as town, thanks.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
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Me and Teproc both probably don't want to lynch Faust.
Here's a relief.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
It's absolutely, 100%, not bogus, no. Scum made bids. Those bids were designed to get them high draft spots. Deciphering what bids they made is completely relevant to who they are.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
Also, lynch on play? How about lynching the only person not to lynch scum - the same one who lynched town D1? Oh, that's you? We can do that.
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Well, I haven't had the time to reread the other two, will try to get to it this WE, but yeah I do think Galz is our best chance at lyncing scum here.
Rereading, the whole "town!iguana might shoot even though he totally shouldn't" could easily have been at attempt to direct blocking and tracking roles on iguana, and he's been... playing it very safe today, let's say. His claim is believable enough but super convenient too.
vote: Galz
That seems lazy as hell.
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I think all other targets than faust are just shots in the dark that will likely make us lose. For faust there is at least decent indication/evidence.
No.
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I'm definitely feeling swan over galz here, but I think
Faust is my favorite
Why?
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Here, Faust is in that situation of being 100% wrong. That said, his sample size is far smaller (3 lynches), and Iguana was lynched primarily by those who logged on - so it's not quite fair to hold that one against him (I'm assuming he didn't post D3, but could be wrong).
I did post D3. But I did not want a quicklynch. Apparently now that makes me scummy. The worlds is upside down.
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I don't see why we shouldn't lynch faust if we're very confident he's scum. The pool will be narrowed with the kills tonight, and our PRs might be able to get something.
WHY are you confident that I am scum? Noone should be.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
It's absolutely, 100%, not bogus, no. Scum made bids. Those bids were designed to get them high draft spots. Deciphering what bids they made is completely relevant to who they are.
Then why did you not argue for a massclaim D1?
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
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Well I'm going to reread iguana tomorrow which apparently noone here has ever even considered. Maybe then we can talk about actual scumtells.
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
Why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
Why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
What's yours?
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
Why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
What's yours?
You don't seriously expect me to answer your questions when you ignore mine?
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
It's absolutely, 100%, not bogus, no. Scum made bids. Those bids were designed to get them high draft spots. Deciphering what bids they made is completely relevant to who they are.
Then why did you not argue for a massclaim D1?
Because there's no reason to give scum knowledge of where PR's are? That's not rocket science man, c'mon.
Early claiming benefits scum. Late claiming benefits town. That's why that's standard practice. Town WANTS the knowledge, but it hurts them to acquire it. Early on the loses don't overcome the gains. Later on they do.
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
Why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
What's yours?
You don't seriously expect me to answer your questions when you ignore mine?
Yes?
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
I personally believe you've got 2 scum in there, not 3. But I think the Poisoner is one of them, so as long as we lynch there, it's all gravy.
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
I personally believe you've got 2 scum in there, not 3. But I think the Poisoner is one of them, so as long as we lynch there, it's all gravy.
So you think the third scum is me? Or you think one of Eevee/Space are scum?
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
It's absolutely, 100%, not bogus, no. Scum made bids. Those bids were designed to get them high draft spots. Deciphering what bids they made is completely relevant to who they are.
Then why did you not argue for a massclaim D1?
Because there's no reason to give scum knowledge of where PR's are? That's not rocket science man, c'mon.
Early claiming benefits scum. Late claiming benefits town. That's why that's standard practice. Town WANTS the knowledge, but it hurts them to acquire it. Early on the loses don't overcome the gains. Later on they do.
Mostly I think you are assuming way too much about how scum would play. Yes, likely they'd pick a Lost number to secure a high spot. But they did that with iguana's counterpart, and so that wasn't claimed. They could have gone for another Lost number, or not. Beyond here it's really hard to say what they would do since getting high bids and not playing them in a townie manner outs scum pretty quickly. Plus bidding Lost numbers runs a high chance of ending up low, so they'd want to bid at least some non-Lost numbers. Overall it's just a sea of WIFOM with almost no information to navigate.
I mean, we have the claims, and we should do things with them, but not this way. For example we have two claimed investigative roles that operated for 3 nights without a single incriminating result. I strongly suspect there's at least one scum in there.
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We should also think about the fact that scum likely has a Rolecop, and what that meas with regards to the claims.
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I struggle so much to see scum Faust playing the way he has. Ii's so blatantly scummy, and I just really believe he would be more polished as scum. The problem is, from a town perspective, I've only ever seen town Faust. And this isn't obviously that either. So I'm incredibly on the fence with him. I would not oppose his lynch, I think, but also would not at all be surprised if we lost by lynching him.
You might want to put some work into your reads then. And by developing reads I don't mean wildly speculating about bids which does not lead anywhere at all.
I don't think I need advice from you on how to successfully play as town, thanks.
Sorry Faust, this was sharper than intended.
We obviously have very different play styles. This wss apparent in 105, and it's apparent here. I'm not going to argue that your way is wrong. It's simply different. I'm also not going to argue my way is right. But it's effective for me. Breaking down the game from a numbers perspective, and removing meta or bias allows me to better understand what's happening.
I play scum particularly well. Finding myself in the heads of scum when I'm town is what works for me. Doesn't need to work for you. That's ok.
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I don't think we should lynch faust today, after having thought about it more. Partly because if he's scum, I don't think he's the Poisoner, but also because I think we should lynch among the people who bid a Lost number. Thats {Space, Galzria, DatSwan} btw.
It's complete bogus to lynch based on who bid what. If that were important information for getting reads, we should have massclaimed D1, which if I remember correctly you opposed. We should lynch based on play, but none of you seems to care one bit for anything that happened in this game prior to the massclaim.
It's absolutely, 100%, not bogus, no. Scum made bids. Those bids were designed to get them high draft spots. Deciphering what bids they made is completely relevant to who they are.
Then why did you not argue for a massclaim D1?
Because there's no reason to give scum knowledge of where PR's are? That's not rocket science man, c'mon.
Early claiming benefits scum. Late claiming benefits town. That's why that's standard practice. Town WANTS the knowledge, but it hurts them to acquire it. Early on the loses don't overcome the gains. Later on they do.
Mostly I think you are assuming way too much about how scum would play. Yes, likely they'd pick a Lost number to secure a high spot. But they did that with iguana's counterpart, and so that wasn't claimed. They could have gone for another Lost number, or not. Beyond here it's really hard to say what they would do since getting high bids and not playing them in a townie manner outs scum pretty quickly. Plus bidding Lost numbers runs a high chance of ending up low, so they'd want to bid at least some non-Lost numbers. Overall it's just a sea of WIFOM with almost no information to navigate.
I mean, we have the claims, and we should do things with them, but not this way. For example we have two claimed investigative roles that operated for 3 nights without a single incriminating result. I strongly suspect there's at least one scum in there.
You've summed up my scum team and reasons without using names or numbers. :P
I'll dig up my post for you to read again, but essentially, everything you've said above: Yrs
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Here's where I'm at:
I know I'm town. I don't know about you two, or about anybody else. However I DO know that IF you're town and voting me then town has effectively lost. Therefore if I'm to believe town has any hope of winning, then I must believe that you're scum. That's probably wrong. You're probably town, and you're simply locking town into a loss. You can't know that, of course. So while I'm personally salty about it, it is what it is.
I've made my cases for my picks for scum. I think the team is:
DatSwan: Bid 4, Draft #1 - Poisoner. Taken based off his bid last time, Space claimed to have expected adjustments from the first draft. That would indicate a movement off bid #4.
Space: Bid 16, Draft #3 - Watcher. They would take it as town, and took it as scum last roll based on this meta. No reason to change it up. Got the opportunity and took it again.
Iguana: Bid 23, Draft #10 - VT. Could have bid anything, but probably went Jailkeeper, losing to LaLight. The claim for Swan going Barracks and failing here works because:
e: Bid 73, Draft #9 - Barracks, JoaT/RB. He knew e took it ahead of him. This claim has good middle ground coverage and tells scum where the separation between unique bids and doubles lTH. On the off chance his teammates got bounced above, his position would improve.
I would like to lynch Swan. I think he's the poisoner. But unless you two are willing to support me in this (or Space or e) it doesn't matter.
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Note as well when rereading them their lack of interactions with one another.
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Further, e wanting to see claims from 10-17 would tell them who the top 6 Town Drafts belonged to. Town would get minimal information, scum maximum.
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Note as well when rereading them their lack of interactions with one another.
Well I don't think piecing together scum teams is all that productive just yet. I think I could write a blurb like the one you wrote for every player in the game.
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Note as well when rereading them their lack of interactions with one another.
Well I don't think piecing together scum teams is all that productive just yet. I think I could write a blurb like the one you wrote for every player in the game.
Back from V/LA though nopt fully caught up: no. Thinking in scumteams is good at lylo specifically. And I strongly disagree that we can't make anything out of the bids. I would be very surprised if scum bid less than 3 Lost numbers, given how lopsided the scum roles are in this setup. On the contrary, I think town is more likely to have bid in more conservative ways, because the power distribution is much smoother on the town side.
I'm not taht surprised no one went for Gunsmith (like last time), though I agree it's the strongest town role. Below a certain point it feels useless to go for it because surely someone else has, so all it requires is two people at the top prioritizing something else (like me generally wanting to avoid investigative roles and figuring Mason was more likely than Gunsmith at #5).
There is the specific case of Space though. Space, why Watcher over Gunsmith ?
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And my case on Galzria is certainly not a lazy as your case on no one, faust.
As fopr not caring about what heppened prior to massclaim, well... this has not been the best game for informative wagons. I do think Galzria has been the scummiest player all game by a wide margin, and feels different from what he was in M105. Yes, this is not a convincing case, but as someone who has made a lot of convincing cases on town (I'm sure you can relate), I feel there is very little correlation between how convincing a case is and how correct it turns out to be.
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What do people think of Galz's reaction to my vote on him (and O's).
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I probably won't be able to do much here until Monday afternoon/evening. If you guys want to build a case against me, cool. Just don't lynch me. So many better options.
Willing to lynch datswan or faust
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Reread Galzria.
What do people think of Galz's reaction to my vote on him (and O's).
i think it was scummy, but on the whole I think Galzria looks towny, probably don't want to lynch him today. A lot of analysis today I agreed with.
Maybe looking at swan next, need a break though. I'll try to find a place I like for my vote today.
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What do people think of Galz's reaction to my vote on him (and O's).
I want to believe that the same player that posts so adamantly about how "we are going to lose because you are voting me" would not also come off with short one liners of confidence like "try harder". Other than the reactions immediately following the votes, I don't think there are many inconsistencies with how Town!Galz would react.
That being said, after reading and thinking for several days now... I find his inability to drop me as exactly the poisoner target strange, as well as how he would leave himself off the "Lost Number Lynch List" even though he is also a Lost Number. It feels a lot like he realized the LYLO situation, and figured the best way out in front of it would be to be the one "running it" by bringing it up and pushing its logic. I can say that if that is the case, it worked quite well.. because I did not even realize that by doing it he was removing himself from the process until I went back to read again.
I have now changed my mind on Galz being town by the way. To be safe I am not going to vote at this time. But I believe I would be on board with a Galz lynch.
PPE
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I probably won't be able to do much here until Monday afternoon/evening. If you guys want to build a case against me, cool. Just don't lynch me. So many better options.
Willing to lynch datswan or faust
Why not Galz ?
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And, for Galz's sake: this is not me trying to rally people to your lynch because I am 100% convinced you're scum. This is me trying to understand why people seem to think you're town.
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faust, do you intend to state willingness to lynch anyone (besides me/O) before deadline, or are you simply not interested in this game ?
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I guess that was unnecessarily mean, you've been V/LA. Still, I'd like to know who exactly you think is scum here (aside from O and me, if that's still a thing).
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And, for Galz's sake: this is not me trying to rally people to your lynch because I am 100% convinced you're scum. This is me trying to understand why people seem to think you're town.
Because people have differences in opinion. What you've claimed as me saying one thing (see: Poisoner), others have seen as me saying exactly what I did.
You've since changed tact on that and claimed I was trying to direct tracking roles? What? That's nonsensical. I would've tracked iguana N1, yes, but absolutely nowhere did I suggest a tracker do so. I'm literally the definition of "Each player gets to play their PR however they want." I never brought up tracker, or suggested anything about one.
Unlike e...
Probably not a good lynch for today.
Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....
But you haven't accused him of doing what you've accused me of doing... you're simply looking with EXTREME bias at everything I say and do, whereas others are not.
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I accuse Galz of doing X underhandedly.
Galz says "What ? I didn't do X explicitly ! So biased !"
Also, why would I be biased ? confirmation Bias ? I changed my mind on you, like five times, so no.
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I accuse Galz of doing X underhandedly.
Galz says "What ? I didn't do X explicitly ! So biased !"
Also, why would I be biased ? confirmation Bias ? I changed my mind on you, like five times, so no.
I didn't do "X" PERIOD. What the hell do you want me to say? You've literally spent the ENTIRE game putting words in my mouth! So you tell me what else to call it other than a ridiculous and unfounded bias at every level. Take the damn blinders off man.
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This game is called mafia. This is a game in which people lie. I'm accusing you of lying, I'm not expecting you to have a constructive response to that, no, because there is no constructive response to that. You are accusing me of being biased and putting words in your mouth without adressing my arguments: I'm saying the result of what you were saying was that it would encourage a Tracker to track iguana. If you were town, this might not have been your intention, but I contend that you were scum trying to entice a Tracker to do that because that's in your faction's interest. That's not "putting words in your mouth", that's just, what I think you were doing.
Your answer is "No." WHich is fine, but it doesn't exactly disprove anything... nor should it.
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The bottom line is: whatever it is that you were doing with the poisoner thing felt entirely pointless to me if you were town, and I think you would have dropped it way earlier if that were the case (you being town). But you kept on, and I can see why you'd want to do that if you were scum. This is my argument.
Now, again, you're not supposed to have a response to that, that's not the point. I'm putting this to non:Galzria people, because your response to this is frankly irrelevant.
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This game is called mafia. This is a game in which people lie. I'm accusing you of lying, I'm not expecting you to have a constructive response to that, no, because there is no constructive response to that. You are accusing me of being biased and putting words in your mouth without adressing my arguments: I'm saying the result of what you were saying was that it would encourage a Tracker to track iguana. If you were town, this might not have been your intention, but I contend that you were scum trying to entice a Tracker to do that because that's in your faction's interest. That's not "putting words in your mouth", that's just, what I think you were doing.
Your answer is "No." WHich is fine, but it doesn't exactly disprove anything... nor should it.
That's fine - but you asked why others don't see it. It's because there's nothing there to see. I could literally argue "Player X is simply scum and lying" about literally anything. The burden of proof is on the accuser. There's nothing to what you've accused me of - so yes, I can't defend it. But you shouldn't be surprised when others don't agree with you either. There's nothing of substance to agree with.
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WHy can't you let people answer for themselves if you're so confident there's nothing to see ?
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WHy can't you let people answer for themselves if you're so confident there's nothing to see ?
They already did. You didn't like the responded.
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Also, there is something to argue about, as I've just said above. You're not the one I'm interested in arguing with because either
a) you're scum and lying
or
b) you're town and obviously not receptive to any argument about you being scum
Can we please stop acting as if this wasn't incredibly basic mafia stuff ? Arguing with people you think is scum about why you think they're scum is pointless. It always has been. It always will be.
PPE: Not really they didn't.
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I guess that was unnecessarily mean, you've been V/LA. Still, I'd like to know who exactly you think is scum here (aside from O and me, if that's still a thing).
I don't know yet. As I said, I have more time tomorrow. I plan on examining things more closely instead of jumping to conclusions.
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Also, there is something to argue about, as I've just said above. You're not the one I'm interested in arguing with because either
a) you're scum and lying
or
b) you're town and obviously not receptive to any argument about you being scum
Can we please stop acting as if this wasn't incredibly basic mafia stuff ? Arguing with people you think is scum about why you think they're scum is pointless. It always has been. It always will be.
PPE: Not really they didn't.
Or, you know, C) I'm town, and you're town, and WE LOSE if I can't convince you that your case is, and always has been, nonsensical. But you're absolutely unwilling to consider it. Tell me oh great Mafia master: what should I do instead? Not respond? Let you run town into a loss by ignoring you and letting you convince JUST ONE ADDITIONAL TOWN that I'm scum? I've made cases against the people I think are scum. I'll be continuing to expand upon them. In the meantime, I refuse to simply ignore you and let you carry the town to a loss. It's on my record too if you do. I'm not scum, don't care to lose, and will do everything in my power to prevent you from convincing even a single other townie into voting for me.
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You're not reading my posts, so you might as well ignore them, yes.
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I'll tell you right now: I do not answer well to AtE, so whatever your faction is, it is in your interest to not do that.
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And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?
Now THAT is nonsensical.
Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.
If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?
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And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?
Now THAT is nonsensical.
Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.
If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?
It's not exclusively alignment indicative, and Space knows this. They took Watcher as scum from draft 2 last time. They took Watcher from draft 3 this time. There's no difference. They were scum last time, they could be either this time.
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Specifically I mean Watcher over Gunsmith.
I get why you'd do that as scum. Watcher is obviously much better there. My question is why do it as town ?
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I had Space at #2 in my head for this draft, but you're right they were #3 of course. I guess that's a little more understandable, since I'd expect a town #2 to go Gunsmith.
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Specifically I mean Watcher over Gunsmith.
I get why you'd do that as scum. Watcher is obviously much better there. My question is why do it as town ?
Space would do it because I think Space values the PR more. That was their argument before anyway.
I considered Gunsmith from draft 4. But I was fairly confident I would get it based on nobody going for it last game. Ultimately I thought attempting to deny scum Poisoner was more valuable. I still feel this way, given the strength of the role for scum.
But back to Space... They were 2nd Draft last game. Almost certain Draft 1 was SK and would go Mother. Space had their absolute choice on which PR to take and took Watcher exclusively because they felt that's what Town Space would do.
If they are town here, to take something different would be weird. I actually expect both scum Space and town Space to take Watcher here every time just... because that's what Space values.
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And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?
Now THAT is nonsensical.
Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.
If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?
My argument on Swan is based largely on that yes. More it's based on a collective of things:
A) Somebody on scum went 4 or 8. This player is likely now claiming Iguanas spot. That's going to narrow it down to the mid-range claims (most likely).
B) I don't believe Swan would've chosen 23 as their bid if town.
C) Swan has spent a lot of the game speculating about what he wouldn't do as scum. I didn't see that much in 105. Moreover, he's spent little time attempting to find scum - something I think is significantly harder to do in your first scum game.
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A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure. Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.
B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.
C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.
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A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure. Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.
B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.
C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.
Just in response to your point in A) - Sure, from your perspective I am. But let's assume I'm actually where Iguana was. Iguana was a Goon. What did he bid on that crossed paths with draft #2/#3 that got him bounced?
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As I said, I don't think it's necessarily a 1-to-1 swap. If you're scum, I don't believe whoever got your slot missed, they're just a role scum doesn't want to claim.
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A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure. Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.
B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.
C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.
In regards to B), it's just that In know how I approached this game's bidding: it was to look at and improve on the bidding from last game. Space has said they did the same. In fact I looked at everyone awhile back and -most- people bid in ways that would show a desire to improve. Swan going to 23 doesn't really do this. That bid change doesn't really make sense to me from a town perspective.
I mean, I could definitely be wrong on Swan. RR could definitely be in the mix instead. He's basically null and could be anywhere. But the combination of things regarding Swan just feel off to me.
I think the absolute best place to find scum is e - but I also really don't think he's the poisoner.
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As I said, I don't think it's necessarily a 1-to-1 swap. If you're scum, I don't believe whoever got your slot missed, they're just a role scum doesn't want to claim.
Right, and that's reasonable. But you said I was a candidate for a straight Iguana replacement, which I don't think is really viable. Scum could be round-robbining though, certainly.
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Which... huh. Actually what would that be ? Roleblocker was my first thought, but really why not claim that, it prevents Qvist from being an IC ? Especially given that Watcher and Tracker were out of the way, scum was pretty comfortable in their fakeclaiming here.
Let's see...
Strongman you don't want to claim, but there wouldn't be a missing kill so that's out.
Bomb you don't want to claim, but that's only if e is scum (and lying about the Barracks).
Role Cop you can claim just fine.
Investigation Immune you don't want to claim but that's only if e is scum.
Ninja you don't want to claim but that's only if e is scum.
Hm. That's worth thinking about actually. unvote for now.
PPE: 2
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I do think e is town btw. Just based on play. His claim is a bit worrisome I'll admit.
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And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?
Now THAT is nonsensical.
Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.
If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?
My argument on Swan is based largely on that yes. More it's based on a collective of things:
A) Somebody on scum went 4 or 8. This player is likely now claiming Iguanas spot. That's going to narrow it down to the mid-range claims (most likely).
B) I don't believe Swan would've chosen 23 as their bid if town.
C) Swan has spent a lot of the game speculating about what he wouldn't do as scum. I didn't see that much in 105. Moreover, he's spent little time attempting to find scum - something I think is significantly harder to do in your first scum game.
A) Agreed. Unless there is a multi switch.
B) Why would I not choose 23 as Town? I did choose 23 as town, first off, and secondly, I still stand by my logic behind it. Not just because it was exactly correct, but because I believe it would be over and over again INDEPENDENT of players in the game as long as the rules were the same. The fact that you know me, combined with the fact that you are holding this over me so much, is actually the primary reason why I switched from saying "it must be a Town!Galz" to reading back on you.
C) Swan spent a lot of time speculating about what he WOULD do as skum because this game setup is confusing as shit (awesome, but confusing for a second game) and I needed to try to map out who was likely skum for when claiming started. Because of that, when you accused me of doing things that did not come up in my "what I would do as skum" set up, it kind of stood out. I did not know that defending yourself was an Anti-Town play in LYLO so my bad on that. In which case I would like to point out the only person that has spent more time defending themselves than me... is you.
I am done trying to talk myself out of this.
Vote: Galz
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DatSwna, you say bidding 23 was "correct": how ? Getting #10 is not terrible, but it's not exactly a success ?
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DatSwna, you say bidding 23 was "correct": how ? Getting #10 is not terrible, but it's not exactly a success ?
I am referencing a back and forth Galz and I had the other day when he first accused me of being skum based on what I did the previous game.
I said my theory was go for 23 as town because it seemed to be a somewhat GTD middle of the pack number. I expected to come in ahead of where 23 landed on the previous game (because people on Skum would react to 23 being picked so much and I assumed stay away from it), but also not be very high up. When I say I was "Correct" I am referencing that so far we can determine less people bid 23 than they did on the re roll and I had a slightly high draft position then those in the previous game.
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DatSwna, you say bidding 23 was "correct": how ? Getting #10 is not terrible, but it's not exactly a success ?
Also you gotta remember that you all play a lot with one and other and this is my first draft with any of you. So while 10 may not be super awesome fantastic... game plan was to stay out of the BS and go for middle rank area... 10 isn’t perfect but I would have considered “success” anything under 12.
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
And of course the very outside chance we lynch the poisoned player, reducing the death count on any given cycle from 3 to 2.
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
And of course the very outside chance we lynch the poisoned player, reducing the death count on any given cycle from 3 to 2.
Actually, that "out" is gone in a no lynch situation as well. The only reason it works today is because it effectively creates a No Lynch by reducing today's cycle to 2 deaths.
So today we have a 4-10 chance to make it to tomorrow still playing. If we no-lynch or lynch the poisoned player, we drop to 1-8 to continue past tomorrow. At any point prior to the Poisoner dying a mislynch means we lose.
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
Convenient timing to point out the no lunch solution you “overlooked”
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
Convenient timing to point out the no lunch solution you “overlooked”
Why?
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
Convenient timing to point out the no lunch solution you “overlooked”
Why?
Because you hate lunch obviously
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Just noticed a small oversight in my math. We're technically in MyLo, not LyLo - but our outs tomorrow following a no lynch would be 1-in-8, compared to 3-in-10 now.:
Right now there's 10 Alive. I'm going to factor 2 NK's until the Poisoner dies.
Mislynch: We drop to 7. Even a correct Poisoner Lynch then leaves us at 4 with 2 scum. We lose.
No Lynch: We drop to 8. Mislynch here and we lose. Same situation we're currently in. But have we lost? If we correctly lynch regular scum here, we'll drop to 5 with 2 scum. Still playing. If we lynch scum (either) again, we drop to 2 with 1 Scum. We lose. So in this scenario we could still win if (and only if) we lynch the Poisoner tomorrow.
Convenient timing to point out the no lunch solution you “overlooked”
Why?
Because you hate lunch obviously
You like no lunch? Obvscum.
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Unvote
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
Galzria? Pushing Datswan over Space. Galzria!Space very possible.
e? Says not to policy lynch, which could . e!Space is very possible.
Faust? Entirely useless and unpleasant! But also said nothing about Space and spent most of his time poking Teproc, Galzria and RR. Faust!Space is very possible.
RR? Left Space off his lynch list. Hasn't posted extensively about anyone, so this is about as meaningful as we can get for "RR ignoring someone". RR!Space is very possible.
Eevee? Forces the claim out of Space! An interaction! It proves that either Eevee is scum, or Space isn't the one who fired the main shot last night. Fair enough. Eevee!Space is quite possible though, the claims could just as easily be set up.
Datswan: Has voted Galzria, which is understandable by either alignment. Says "he honestly does not see the Space case here". Also lists Space as a hypothetical scumteam with Galz... overall Datswan!Space is quite possible.
Qvist: Probably town himself. No particularly notable mention of space.
Downsides to lynching space:
Eevee is vouching that she did not perform the NK last night
Galzria being alive tomorrow would be Eevee vouching that Space did not perform the Poison last night.
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"which could be a passive deflection" ---> line about e
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I support this lynch.
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vote: space
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
A major downside would be that scum!Space is quite unlikely to be the Poisoner. But otherwise, it's not the worst lynch ever.
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iguana reread...
Hm.
Vote: RR
First vote.
Eevee seems pretty town.
I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
This before going VLA is significant in particular. Putting the vote on the Poisoner would be risky.
Well uh. Then, there is just nothing D2, only voting for LaLight and such. Only significant things are that Eevee is a bit scummier and DatSwan is a bit townier.
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
A major downside would be that scum!Space is quite unlikely to be the Poisoner. But otherwise, it's not the worst lynch ever.
Why not exactly..?
Scum!Space is more likely the poisoner with Galz poisoned than she is the strongman who shot.
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Now I want to recheck all night actions.
Night 1:
X Poisons Jimmmmm
Y Kills Witherweaver
Space watches faust - no targeter
LaLight targets ??? and ??? (claimed Jailkeeping gkrieg)
e does nothing
Qvist does nothing
Eevee tracks e - no target
gkrieg does ???
If two or more kills land on the same person, would this be indicated in flavor?
So first of all, here we have a missing SK kill. None of the claimed roles can account for that. Conclusion: Scum has a Roleblocker. It makes sense for them to use it on a claimed Jailkeeper. Roleblocker is something that a middlish slot probably went for. Claimed VTs in that range: RR, DatSwan.
Another note is that e can only be the Poisoner if Eevee is scum as well.
Night 2
X poisons chairs
Z kills ??? (presumably: a Candidate)
Space watches Galzria - no targeter
e does nothing (?)
Qvist uses Protector of the Island
Eevee tracks Qvist - targets are candidates
gkrieg redirects Galzria and someone (only indication for this is Space's result)
gkrieg redirecting away from Galzria makes sense. Question: Who did scum actually try to kill here?
e - I guess possible. e has a super high ratio of being nightkilled. But he hasn't been very active at that point.
DatSwan - very offbeat. Makes most sense if scum are afraid of watching, i.e. if Space is town.
Galzria - that would have been redirected, and to one of the Candidates too, and it would imply that one of Space/Eevee/Qvist is scum.
Eevee - possible.
Teproc- possible.
That doesn't tell much right now, but might be useful later on.
Another thing I don't understand is why do we not force e to full claim? Knowing what he did helps us figure things out, and I don't see how town benefits from keeping this in the dark - if e still has his power he can use it to try and block a kill and there's not much scum can do about it even if they know.
Finally, according to this Eevee knows that PotI has already been used N2. His D3 response doesn't reflect that:
It really does seem like Iguana wants to be lynched. Could there be other reasons than the protector of the island? I can't think of any.
Night 3
X poisons ???
A kills gkrieg
Space watches Galzria - no targeter
e does nothing (?)
Eevee tracks Space - target Galzria
gkrieg does ???
What this says... Galzria is unlikely to be Poisoned? It would require Space to lie about the Watcher, which seems kind of dangerous with Eevee's result. On the other hand, if Space IS the Poisoner and Eevee has a result, they would be forced into such a claim. That would make some other scumster the Watcher. Possible.
PPE: 1
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
A major downside would be that scum!Space is quite unlikely to be the Poisoner. But otherwise, it's not the worst lynch ever.
Why not exactly..?
Scum!Space is more likely the poisoner with Galz poisoned than she is the strongman who shot.
Strongman? I'm not sure I follow you here.
I do agree that upon further evaluation, Space could still be the Poisoner.
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
A major downside would be that scum!Space is quite unlikely to be the Poisoner. But otherwise, it's not the worst lynch ever.
Why not exactly..?
Scum!Space is more likely the poisoner with Galz poisoned than she is the strongman who shot.
Strongman? I'm not sure I follow you here.
I do agree that upon further evaluation, Space could still be the Poisoner.
goon*
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
Galzria? Pushing Datswan over Space. Galzria!Space very possible.
e? Says not to policy lynch, which could . e!Space is very possible.
Faust? Entirely useless and unpleasant! But also said nothing about Space and spent most of his time poking Teproc, Galzria and RR. Faust!Space is very possible.
RR? Left Space off his lynch list. Hasn't posted extensively about anyone, so this is about as meaningful as we can get for "RR ignoring someone". RR!Space is very possible.
Eevee? Forces the claim out of Space! An interaction! It proves that either Eevee is scum, or Space isn't the one who fired the main shot last night. Fair enough. Eevee!Space is quite possible though, the claims could just as easily be set up.
Datswan: Has voted Galzria, which is understandable by either alignment. Says "he honestly does not see the Space case here". Also lists Space as a hypothetical scumteam with Galz... overall Datswan!Space is quite possible.
Qvist: Probably town himself. No particularly notable mention of space.
Downsides to lynching space:
Eevee is vouching that she did not perform the NK last night
Galzria being alive tomorrow would be Eevee vouching that Space did not perform the Poison last night.
A small thing but just so no one gets my lynch Pool wrong. Where ever the comment was reading “I don’t see the Space case” was well before the More recent post suggesting Space!Galz instead of whatever the ninja kill nonsense was.
I absolutely believe the lynch Pool includes either the tracker/watcher (leaning Space actually) and some combo of E!, Galz, and Faust. Probably Faust and Galz/E! To be more specific. From there I think Galz is more likely and I would like to lynch there.
My vote is probably not moving from Galz at this point unless I am keeping us from lynchig someone is a clear potential poisoner. I will NOT vote for Qivst, O, Teproc, Eevee, or Space at this point. There is like 99% one skum there and they are probably not the poisoner so I don’t see the point in the risk.
The simplest selection for poisoner is me or Galz. Plain and simple. I don’t think we should waste time considering other candidates at this point. Pick one of us. Either we will win or I will flip VT. Then RB Galz if you can, town lives to fight another day. Lynch him then, and the pool consists of Faust and either the Tracker orneatcher. Game set match.
PPE 5 - still read them. They don’t change my opinion.
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I think I want to lynch Space.
1) Space has given actually pretty useless and behind-on-info infodumps compared to M100, a town!Space game
2) Space has given no reads whatsoever and not contributed beyond said infodumps.
3) Most of the other possible scum candidates have directed me away from Space.
A major downside would be that scum!Space is quite unlikely to be the Poisoner. But otherwise, it's not the worst lynch ever.
Why not exactly..?
Scum!Space is more likely the poisoner with Galz poisoned than she is the strongman who shot.
Strongman? I'm not sure I follow you here.
I do agree that upon further evaluation, Space could still be the Poisoner.
So, I am completely sold on the TeamMason bit right now so there is no sarcasm here... but a further explanation of the Strongman idea when you get a chance please.
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Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
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Now I want to recheck all night actions.
Night 1:
X Poisons Jimmmmm
Y Kills Witherweaver
Space watches faust - no targeter
LaLight targets ??? and ??? (claimed Jailkeeping gkrieg)
e does nothing
Qvist does nothing
Eevee tracks e - no target
gkrieg does ???
If two or more kills land on the same person, would this be indicated in flavor?
So first of all, here we have a missing SK kill. None of the claimed roles can account for that. Conclusion: Scum has a Roleblocker. It makes sense for them to use it on a claimed Jailkeeper. Roleblocker is something that a middlish slot probably went for. Claimed VTs in that range: RR, DatSwan.
Another note is that e can only be the Poisoner if Eevee is scum as well.
Night 2
X poisons chairs
Z kills ??? (presumably: a Candidate)
Space watches Galzria - no targeter
e does nothing (?)
Qvist uses Protector of the Island
Eevee tracks Qvist - targets are candidates
gkrieg redirects Galzria and someone (only indication for this is Space's result)
gkrieg redirecting away from Galzria makes sense. Question: Who did scum actually try to kill here?
e - I guess possible. e has a super high ratio of being nightkilled. But he hasn't been very active at that point.
DatSwan - very offbeat. Makes most sense if scum are afraid of watching, i.e. if Space is town.
Galzria - that would have been redirected, and to one of the Candidates too, and it would imply that one of Space/Eevee/Qvist is scum.
Eevee - possible.
Teproc- possible.
That doesn't tell much right now, but might be useful later on.
Another thing I don't understand is why do we not force e to full claim? Knowing what he did helps us figure things out, and I don't see how town benefits from keeping this in the dark - if e still has his power he can use it to try and block a kill and there's not much scum can do about it even if they know.
Finally, according to this Eevee knows that PotI has already been used N2. His D3 response doesn't reflect that:
It really does seem like Iguana wants to be lynched. Could there be other reasons than the protector of the island? I can't think of any.
Night 3
X poisons ???
A kills gkrieg
Space watches Galzria - no targeter
e does nothing (?)
Eevee tracks Space - target Galzria
gkrieg does ???
What this says... Galzria is unlikely to be Poisoned? It would require Space to lie about the Watcher, which seems kind of dangerous with Eevee's result. On the other hand, if Space IS the Poisoner and Eevee has a result, they would be forced into such a claim. That would make some other scumster the Watcher. Possible.
PPE: 1
I am quoting this for reference to a previous point I made a few days back that I believe was incorrectly overlooked.
#1) Best Scenario = Find POS and lynch them.
#2) Middle Scenario = Find Skum and lynch them.
#3) Bottom Scenario = Get the lynch wrong, but lynch the poisoned player.
#4) Losing Scenario = Lynch a non-poisoned Town player.
Obviously, we would love to have situation 1 happen and situation 4 is a loss.
I also accept that I will have very little persuasion on anyone at this point as I seem to be in all the "lynch pools". So please just take the concept FWIW:
If we lynch Skum every night from here on out - we win. (7-3 tonight, we lynch skum, one of us dies to poison, they kill one of us. We wake up tomorrow to 5-2. We lynch skum. One of us dies to poison, they kill one of us. We wake up 3-1. At this point, if we e fuck up they win. But... isn't that the same result as it has been advertised today. No difference right? Except you know, we are even today, the two potential days full of information, and whatever the bazillion other upsides for us are.)
Going to bed. Tomorrow I will go and look back to see who has been trying to play the quick lynch game.
The only other thing I want to leave with is regarding the Space!Skum thing. I think that either Space or Eevee essentially must be skum at this point. And I, like most here, are leaning Space. But the only current threat to Town currently is the Poisoner and then one of these two roles (or both I guess and we are fucked). Point is - skum will kill the other one tonight to ensure they cannot reveal info.
I get that Space seems easy, and I will be honest I am on the "I could go with a Skum!Space" wagon... but every lynch kinda counts a lot at this point. If we lynch him, then yeah, he may be skum, and yay for us. But if we pick another good target and are right, skum is going to have to kill the non - skum info role for safety tonight. I know that they could both be, or one could be lying, or we could get it wrong (all good reasons to lynch from the pool - myself included).. but like.. optimal win would seem to be to narrow down tomorrow's pool as much as possible. Maybe we should spend some time before last minute considering candidates other than Space/Eevee because that choice will be made for us tomorrow? - Think of it like Iguana Day 3. sort of. but not really. but you get it.
See you tomorrow. Or tonight. Or whatever time it is where you are... cuz it's late as hell here.
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So, I am completely sold on the TeamMason bit right now so there is no sarcasm here... but a further explanation of the Strongman idea when you get a chance please.
goon*
misspoke. In my head they mean similar things and I didn't really use those terms back then..
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No lynch is bad when scum gets two kills a night.
Do I win the mylo/lylo analysis game ?
faust, you contend that there must be a scum roleblocker. I get that there's a missing NK from LL, but
oh and... I am not trolling you. I am town, played townie and did nothing that hurt town.
This lead me to think LL might have no killed. He has no incentive to lie at that point (post-hammer)... granted, he has no incentive to tell the truth either.
It sounds absurd to no kill as SK, but
a) It lets him support his JK claim (I think he did JK gkrieg)
b) He had no info on N1 on who the candidates were. I thought at the time this would lead him to kill iguana, but I guess he might have hoped iguana's existence would lead to Candidates dying and would help his cause, and then he decided that shooting randomly was not worth the risk of getting caught by a Tracker/Watcher
Combined with the fact that I don't really see why a scum!Roleblocker doesn't claim Roleblocker (it's kinda of a scummy claim yes, but so is VT), and I don't think there is a Roleblocker here.
I do agree e should full claim actually.
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And when I say "iguana's existence" I meant "a Poisoner's existence".
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Space, while calling scum teams is almost always frowned upon it's definitely something that's been on my mind because somewhere the bids just... have to make sense. I believe what I've proposed for You/Swan/e/iguana does that.
I actually disagree that calling scumteams is a bad idea -- I've used interactions before to look for likely sets of people. It's actually more likely to be accurate than considering each person alone, because they're likely to acting as part of a team. However, the thing here is that you're proposing a team based not on interactions or mutual support or whatever, but on your personal aesthetic for what you think a desirable set of bids for a scumteam would be. The whole point of this sort of bidding game is that the unexpected bids perform better than the sheep-bids, so "this is a good spread of numbers that performed well" is not a strong premise for an entire case.
I'm not against reconsidering my position on Faust. The point that you've made regarding vote history is valid. I was 100% wrong on votes in M100 while you were 100% correct - and (I, as scum) argued you were too perfect to be town.
And you won that game for scum by getting me mislynched with exactly that argument.
Here, Faust is in that situation of being 100% wrong. That said, his sample size is far smaller (3 lynches), and Iguana was lynched primarily by those who logged on - so it's not quite fair to hold that one against him (I'm assuming he didn't post D3, but could be wrong).
Are you really saying that faust, strong player that he is, lives this long while acting this scummily, and is still more likely in your opinion to be town than I am, when your primary case against me is in number bids?
So what's the scum team that reasonably gets them Poisoner?
Am I being invited to join in your name-the-team game now, just so you can go back to telling us that it's frowned upon to call teams? :-P I'll bite anyway. I think faust/Eevee/e/Iguana works convincingly, with e as poisoner, faust as the RB/JOAT, and Eevee as scum!tracker.
faust: 73, got #9, Barracks, claimed as iguana.
Eevee: 5, got #13, Tracker
e: 4/8?, got #1, Poisoner, claimed as faust.
iguana 3, got #15, Goon, claimed as e.
Sorry if the formatting is weird.. it's pasted from my text buffer of ideas about the game, and I'm using a monospaced font over there to keep things lined up nicely. I think blanketing 3, 4 and 5, plus having an oddball bid is at least as plausible as your "they must have exactly n Lost numbers" theory, and I'm basing my scum team call on actual behaviour/votes in-game, rather than on the bids first and then fitting behavioural evidence retrospectively.
I'm also not saying that I don't believe any other suggestions about DatSwan being a good possibility, but given that your argument against him also incorrectly tars me at the same time, I remain sceptical.
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Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
Or any other scum! You're forgetting that the scum team gets to coordinate on their bids. I did a pretty good job picking my very own number in the first version even though I had the scum QT to talk to, but reasonably any scum team with faust on it gets to have him pick out numbers for everyone if they want to do it that way. No need for him to have the super-exposed high bid personally. That's why I think him bidding an oddball is totally reasonable.
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Space, the missing NK -could- also be explained by Gkrieg targeting me. He could've redirected an attempted kill to a dead player.
Does that mean that the attempted kill had to be from Qvist, or performed by a ninja, though? Otherwise I think I'd have seen a third player targeting you.
So... just saying.
GK re directs actions from Galz onto himself.
Qivst shields the Candidates giving Galz a shield.
The shield gets transferred from Galz to GK.
There was no NK so the assumption is that a kill was attempted on either GK or Galz - either way ending up on GK.
If we think the options are either NK went somewhere else, or it was Qivst, or it was a ninja I just want to throw out another option...
Team is Galz, Space , XXXX... Galz shot at GK, Space watched Galz.
Just the obvious thought that came to mind. I need to look back to consider if I actually think it is likely but yeah.
This makes very little sense. Why would a player like gkrieg, who gets killed early almost every game, want to direct possible night actions onto himself? If he had a scumread on Galz (he had voted that way, I think), he ought to be directing from himself to Galz, and not the other way around.
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Here, Faust is in that situation of being 100% wrong. That said, his sample size is far smaller (3 lynches), and Iguana was lynched primarily by those who logged on - so it's not quite fair to hold that one against him (I'm assuming he didn't post D3, but could be wrong).
I did post D3. But I did not want a quicklynch. Apparently now that makes me scummy. The worlds is upside down.
Teproc made a good case for quicklynching, based on the likelihood scum having PotI. It seemed credible enough to go along with at the time, especially since iguana's trolling left little doubt about how he was going to flip. In what way was it towny of you deliberately not to have joined that wagon?
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Here, Faust is in that situation of being 100% wrong. That said, his sample size is far smaller (3 lynches), and Iguana was lynched primarily by those who logged on - so it's not quite fair to hold that one against him (I'm assuming he didn't post D3, but could be wrong).
I did post D3. But I did not want a quicklynch. Apparently now that makes me scummy. The worlds is upside down.
Teproc made a good case for quicklynching, based on the likelihood scum having PotI. It seemed credible enough to go along with at the time, especially since iguana's trolling left little doubt about how he was going to flip. In what way was it towny of you deliberately not to have joined that wagon?
The case was not good, it was awful. It was based to the two highly shaky assumptions that a) scum went for PotI b) we could manage to get a majority of living players to vote before a single scum player that would know he had to be online ASAP showed up c) iguana would taunt a quicklynch while his partner has yet to submit an order.
Anyone who tought about it should have been able to figure out that the way to go was either to just lynch iguana at regular speed and assume scum doesn't have PotI because why would they, or to be afraid of scum!PotI and in that case not lynch iguana at all on that day.
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There is the specific case of Space though. Space, why Watcher over Gunsmith ?
Ah, my selection should not be read as a comment on the absolute value of each role independent of the play of the person wielding it. I just know my own limitations pretty well, and prefer to play in my comfort zone. I do badly on gut reads, and Gunsmith is primarily useful when you have a definite suspicion. I'm okay at looking for people who might be a likely target of other PRs' actions, because there's metainfo from game to game that I don't have to reset, like gkrieg or faust being more likely than the average player to be an N1 target. I think my utility to town is better with Watcher than Gunsmith/Tracker or some other less passive information-gathering role.
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What do people think of Galz's reaction to my vote on him (and O's).
I thought he was townie D2 -- even enough to make him my watcher target for that night. Then D3 I townread him because of all the action around him the night before, but that day was all about Iguana anyway. Coming into D4 with zero new watcher results on him was odd, and definitely no longer as townie-looking. I don't know that I've actually come round to scumreading him beyond the inevitable omgus feelings resulting in his bad numerology case on me, but that might be residual bias.
Re-reading his actual reaction posts now, it could be scum under pressure. He showed actual anger/frustration, but I get the impression he's a wily enough scum player to be able to channel that either way around.
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Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
Okay, this is good! We wake up tomorrow and prove I'm not the poisoner, because I can 100% guarantee that Galz won't die of poison, and even if he's NKd tonight, the rest of you will be able to see he wasn't also poisoned.
This means it's ridiculous to push for my lynch today, because there are actual scums out there and the only people wanting to risk a non-scum player over an obvious scummy one like faust are the ones who're pushing for me because I'm kind of a traditional mislynch. Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering.
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Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
Okay, this is good! We wake up tomorrow and prove I'm not the poisoner, because I can 100% guarantee that Galz won't die of poison, and even if he's NKd tonight, the rest of you will be able to see he wasn't also poisoned.
This means it's ridiculous to push for my lynch today, because there are actual scums out there and the only people wanting to risk a non-scum player over an obvious scummy one like faust are the ones who're pushing for me because I'm kind of a traditional mislynch. Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering.
Why am I obviously scummy again?
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Okay, last thing for my late lunch break and then I'm back to being on work time!
This LYLO/MYLO stuff isn't very useful terminology, because the different kill rates of the two factions make a difference in a kind of unexpected way.
At a normal LyLo, we have to be really careful who we vote for because one misplaced vote tends to risk scum quickhammers. That's absolutely not the case here, but Galz was really quick to sew the seeds of hesitation by coming into the day with his LyLo claim. We actually outnumber the scums seven to three, so rather than one careless town vote, it takes three for them to cause problems. That's significantly more comfortable for us, because the chance of any one of those three noticing the quickhammer effort is exponentially higher than just a single player noticing in time to remove their vote.
Anyway, I wanted to make sure people have noticed that because it hasn't jumped out at me while I was catching up. Below are a few helpful number chains of what might happen. While the top one is ideal, the bottom one isn't the end of the world, especially given that we have extra info like the fact that the masons are both on the same faction, or that the only real town evidence for e and Qvist comes via Eevee. The corner case is put there just because faust tried to make an argument about it earlier, so I wanted the numbers, and it's actually fine for us too.
BEST CASE SCENARIO:
D4: 7 town 3 scum (6 to lynch) -> correct lynch poisoner
N2: 7 town 2 scum
D5: 6 town 2 scum (5 to lynch) -> correct lynch
N5: 6 town 1 scum
D6: 5 town 1 scum (4 to lynch) -> correct lynch & win
WORST CASE SCENARIO:
D4: 7 town 3 scum (6 to lynch) -> mislynch
N4: 6 town 3 scum
D5: 4 town 3 scum (4 to lynch) -> mislynch
N5: 3 town 3 scum
D6: 1 town 3 scum (defeat)
UNLIKELY CORNER SCENARIO:
D4: 7 town 3 scum (6 to lynch) -> mislynch the N4 poison target
N4: 6 town 3 scum
D5: 5 town 3 scum (5 to lynch) -> correct non-poisoner lynch
N5: 5 town 2 scum
D6: 4 town 2 scum (3 to lynch) -> correct non-poisoner lynch
N6: 4 town 1 scum
D7: 4 town 1 scum (3 to lynch) -> lynch poisoner & win.
ACCEPTABLE CASE:
D4: 7 town 3 scum (6 to lynch) -> correct non-poisoner lynch
N4: 7 town 2 scum
D5: 5 town 2 scum (4 to lynch) -> correct non-poisoner lynch
N5: 5 town 1 scum
D6: 3 town 1 scum (3 to lynch) -> lynch poisoner & win.
PPE 1 that I'm not going to have time to respond to till later.
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PPE 1 that I'm not going to have time to respond to till later.
Surprise.
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Space, the major point to my LyLo (actually MyLo) analysis is what it appears you're overlooking:
"WORST CASE SCENARIO:
D4: 7 town 3 scum (6 to lynch) -> mislynch
N4: 6 town 3 scum
D5: 4 town 3 scum (4 to lynch) -> mislynch
N5: 3 town 3 scum
D6: 1 town 3 scum (defeat)"
Is incorrect. If today (D4) ends in a mislynch of the non-poisoned player, then there is no opportunity or middle ground to play tomorrow. We've already lost. See the same below where we perfectly lynch the Poisoner tomorrow:
D4: 7 Town 3 Scum (6 to lynch) -> mislynch
N4: 6 Town 3 Scum
D5: 4 Town 3 Scum (4 to lynch) -> Poisoner Lynch
N5: 4 Town 2 Scum
D6: 2 Town 2 Scum (Defeat)
Essentially that boils down to: We have a 4-in-10 chance of still playing tomorrow. 10% of the time we're strictly playing LyLo where we MUST lynch the Poisoner (poisoned player lynched today). 10% of the time we've taken control of the game back (Poisoner lynched today), and 20% of the time we're in the exact same situation (Non Poisoner Scum Lynched).
Regardless, none of it is truly relevant except that players should note and be aware of the situation.
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I tried to bury my bone. Mean one-armed man said I couldn't dig there, I would release a massive electromagnetic blast. I bit him.
Vote Count 4.4
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria
Not Voting (6): Eevee, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, faust, Teproc, O
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
Okay, this is good! We wake up tomorrow and prove I'm not the poisoner, because I can 100% guarantee that Galz won't die of poison, and even if he's NKd tonight, the rest of you will be able to see he wasn't also poisoned.
This means it's ridiculous to push for my lynch today, because there are actual scums out there and the only people wanting to risk a non-scum player over an obvious scummy one like faust are the ones who're pushing for me because I'm kind of a traditional mislynch. Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering.
If you're scum I could still die of Poison - but I doubt you make a big deal over this if you or your team had me poisoned so I'm inclined to believe that I'm not.
The rest of your post circles back on itself. The inference is that we shouldn't lynch you because 'proof from tomorrow' that you're not the Poisoner, and should thus look for scum elsewhere - but you end with "Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow".
I don't believe you're the Poisoner, no. I believe you're what you've claimed. But I also think you're scum, so lynching you isn't really bad.
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I don't ever remember having this many people I'm debating voting.
I wish I was more certain that the masons are town, but even if there is a worry in the back of my head, I can't say that I think they are our best bet. Still, doesn't feel good.
Initially I was scummier on Space, then for a while I thought we might just both be town, and now this recent flurry of posts has left me scummier again.
Galzria I've gone back and forth about 17 times. I think there is an ego bias where I think I'd feel more stupid if I was fooled by Galzria than I would if I was fooled by other forum players (because if he lives long you just got to lynch him, I learned this years ago). Still, while I'm extremely worried, I don't think I want to lynch him either.
RR I was feeling very scummy on, and now that's waning mostly through me becoming more paranoid about other players, RR himself really hasn't done much. Still wondering why he isn't more on the table as a lynch option.
I don't think I like lynching faust. One of the things that's making me townier on Galz is his analysis on faust, I agree 100% this is not how I'd expect him to play scum. Really looking forward to see where faust's vote lands.
It's always hard to read people you haven't played before (not that it's going well with the people I have played before here), I'm very lost with Swan. I kind of think they could very well be scum, but I have a hard time rationalizing why they'd be the most likely person.
e I've felt townier ever since my result, I've liked his reads (and I liked him not targetting anyone). But, you know, some light buddying and agreeing with my reads is always how scum gets me to trust him, so while I'm sure I don't want to lynch e today, I'm pretty paranoid he could be scum doing very well.
So, literally switching the target in my head among most of you, not sure who I want to vote.
Deadline is tomorrow at 4pm forum time, fwiw.
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No lynch is bad when scum gets two kills a night.
Do I win the mylo/lylo analysis game ?
faust, you contend that there must be a scum roleblocker. I get that there's a missing NK from LL, but
oh and... I am not trolling you. I am town, played townie and did nothing that hurt town.
This lead me to think LL might have no killed. He has no incentive to lie at that point (post-hammer)... granted, he has no incentive to tell the truth either.
It sounds absurd to no kill as SK, but
a) It lets him support his JK claim (I think he did JK gkrieg)
b) He had no info on N1 on who the candidates were. I thought at the time this would lead him to kill iguana, but I guess he might have hoped iguana's existence would lead to Candidates dying and would help his cause, and then he decided that shooting randomly was not worth the risk of getting caught by a Tracker/Watcher
Combined with the fact that I don't really see why a scum!Roleblocker doesn't claim Roleblocker (it's kinda of a scummy claim yes, but so is VT), and I don't think there is a Roleblocker here.
I do agree e should full claim actually.
I was not suggesting it, merely pointing out my oversight in terminology. It's incredibly bad not because scum gets 2 kills per night, but because we only continue playing on a Poisoner Lynch the following day. Even lynching regular scum ends in a loss. That's really a shot in the dark.
For more relevant convo though:
I think you're just wrong here. First off, LL was SK, not town - as stated in that same post you pulled to say he had no reason to lie. Second, while it's possible that he didn't shoot, it's strictly against his wincon to do so. It's not like we were unaware of a SK being in the game. A 1-16 chance to hit a candidate is still better than a 0-16 chance. Third, he could JK and Shoot simultaneously. Not like he had to choose one over the other to verify his JK claim. And what? He was going to get Gkrieg lynched as the "blocked SK"? Third, Mafia didn't NK or Poison him. A claimed JK not aligned with their faction. They had no way of knowing he was SK. As far as they knew he was town. I do not believe that they would have taken two random shots in the dark hoping to hit other PR's over taking the one claimed PR (and one that could potentially both block or doctor their kills) out unless they had a way to nullify him.
You think a RB would claim? One has. It's e. But you think he's town, so I don't know what to tell you.
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I'm also of the opinion that Space is probably the watcher, just the alignment is unclear.
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Really looking forward to see where faust's vote lands.
Oh yeah me too.
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I'm pretty sure that Eevee's not a Poisoner. The early claim does not make sense from a Poisoner!Eevee perspective. So among Space/Eevee I would definitely go for Space.
I just don't think there is any chance that the Masons get lynched at this point. They could well be scum, but there is little to do about that. The upside is that PoE is pretty strong if they are town. It may make sense to look for their most likely partner, as that is our only shot of winning if they are scum, and they are likely scum anyway if Teproc/O are town.
If I had to one single player that Teproc and O did not focus on at all, I'm landing on RR/e. I see no obvious reason why they are town. e more so because he is riding out his confirmation bias like there's no tomorrow, and that sort of conviction is not easily faked as scum.
Then there is DatSwan. I know he is posting a lot, but I cannot really recall any substance. The slot is a convenient one for scum to hide in, plus he's claimed VT. Galzria I'm suspicious of due to what role he went for... but on the other hand, scum!Galz would not be a VT I guess. And that means that Galz is less likely to be the Poisoner.
So I suppose my pool looks something like Space/DatSwan/RR.
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RR is at that intersection of scummy player/possible fake!Mason partner, so let's look at that.
I don't want to lynch iguana D1.
Oh yeah, there the "flailing" thing mid D1. I remember that was pretty scummy. RR is concerned about what people think of him, and that is despite trying to explain at length that he doesn't care. It doesn't fit. Poisoner!RR would have to be pretty worried about being lynched D1 though. Let's look at wagon composition:
RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee
(taken from one of Galz's posts; maybe Space wants to double-check)
Neither of the Masons is on there. On the other hand, quite some of the living players remaining. Note that Galz unvotes after this. Space is not here, and e isn't, but it does limit the scumteam options somewhat.
Intent to put to L-1
That seems overly cautious.
Overall we don't have a lot of substance. I can very much see a Teproc/O/RR team. There are options for him being scum with other players, but they are rather limited.
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I think I saw someone ask me to full claim? I haven't taken any of my shots
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I see no obvious reason why they are town. e more so because he is riding out his confirmation bias like there's no tomorrow, and that sort of conviction is not easily faked as scum.
So are you saying e is town or scum ? I don't quite follow.
@Galz: e is not a Roleblocker, no. He's a JOAT wioth a 1-Shot Roleblocker. This is not a subtle difference, and my argument is that a scum!Roleblocker would claim, which has nothing to do with e. But you know that.
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Well it has to do with e in that if e is scum that reasoning doesn't hold up, but it has nothing to do with e having a 1-shot Roleblocker.
@e: Why not ?
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Eevee's hesitation seems townie... I mean scum!Eevee is good at that, but still. Loathe as I am to admit it, suspicion of Masons is more likely to come from town in general I fear.
RR... the problem is that when he posts he's townie, but he posts like once every five days, so that's not that hard to do. Still, don't have any kind of confidence he's scum.
I'm back to thinking that lynching in the Lost numbers is good, and I still like vote: Galz the best in there actually.
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e, my problem with lynching faust here is that the more infuriating faust is to me, the more likely he is to be town, in general. Do you disagree with that assessment ?
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ALso, deadline is in less than 3 hours. I assume people know this, but justin case they don't. This is not the time to worry about quickhammers, we need to lynch.
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It's one day and 3 hours.
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I tried to bury my bone. Mean one-armed man said I couldn't dig there, I would release a massive electromagnetic blast. I bit him.
Vote Count 4.4
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria
Not Voting (6): Eevee, SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, faust, Teproc, O
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Oh. Well, I thought the whole time it was today. Ok then. Still think people should vote at this point.
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I'm terrified of voting because I feel I'm going to get it wrong and feel stupid, but I'll Vote: RR.
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Qvist is like my one for-sure townread, him and e voting for faust who I really don't think would play like this as scum is not good. We need pretty good town coordination to ever hit scum today. If the masons are town, PoE should give us a pretty good chance, even with scum colluding against us.
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Eevee, do you think scum is likely at all tohave bid less than 3 Lost numbers ?
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I think I saw someone ask me to full claim? I haven't taken any of my shots
(Bolding by me for emphasis).
How could a non-scum expect to get more than one shot from a JOAT role? Why would you need to clarify that you haven't used any of your other shots unless it's on your mind that you could have done?
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I think I saw someone ask me to full claim? I haven't taken any of my shots
(Bolding by me for emphasis).
How could a non-scum expect to get more than one shot from a JOAT role? Why would you need to clarify that you haven't used any of your other shots unless it's on your mind that you could have done?
Seriously ?
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I think I saw someone ask me to full claim? I haven't taken any of my shots
(Bolding by me for emphasis).
How could a non-scum expect to get more than one shot from a JOAT role? Why would you need to clarify that you haven't used any of your other shots unless it's on your mind that you could have done?
Seriously ?
He claimed town JOAT, didn't he? It has RB, Ninja and Strongman as the three one-shots.
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No no I get that, I just... do you seriously think this is a scumslip ? Obviously you do so it's a moot question, but... let's say I do not. Of course I also think e is town, but I'm in general wary of scumslip arguments, and this one seems particularly flimsy to me.
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No no I get that, I just... do you seriously think this is a scumslip ? Obviously you do so it's a moot question, but... let's say I do not. Of course I also think e is town, but I'm in general wary of scumslip arguments, and this one seems particularly flimsy to me.
Well, if it comes from town!e, then it has to be either a typo, some weird auto-correct, a situation where he misinterprets a key factor of his role, or a situation where he carelessly says shots because he forgets that while he has multiple shots, he can't use more than one anyway. They're all kind of odd little scenarios.
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I disagree. town!e has multiple shots... two of them just happen to be useless. I don't think it's an odd way to say it at all.
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vote: e
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Eevee, do you think scum is likely at all tohave bid less than 3 Lost numbers ?
Maybe they thought that it would come up during the massclaim and had one member take a lesser draft position?
Is what you're getting at that RR is a bad lynch today because of his bid?
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We assume scum mostly bid for lost numbers, how does that compute with e giving me no result when I tracked him? Are there other explanations than ninja kill?
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Shit. unvote
I thought you tracked somebody else N1. Just went back and reread that. e can't have RB'd LL N1 unless you're scum with him.
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We assume scum mostly bid for lost numbers, how does that compute with e giving me no result when I tracked him? Are there other explanations than ninja kill?
Huh ? I don't see why scum bidding 3 Lost numbers would mean e is scum (it doesn't mean he's town either, I just happen to think he is), and even less why he would have to have done the kill ?
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I'm wondering that isn't someone who targeted no one probably town (or a ninja) because most if not all scum won something from the draft with their coordination.
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Shit. unvote
I thought you tracked somebody else N1. Just went back and reread that. e can't have RB'd LL N1 unless you're scum with him.
I mean reaching at straws on this one... but could Skum!E not of used ninja and RB the same night? Is that allowed?
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Shit. unvote
I thought you tracked somebody else N1. Just went back and reread that. e can't have RB'd LL N1 unless you're scum with him.
I mean reaching at straws on this one... but could Skum!E not of used ninja and RB the same night? Is that allowed?
Nope, only one. And Ninja is only a kill modifier (Not role modifier)
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I heard whispering in the jungle, but there were no humans to pet me...
Vote Count 4.5
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (2): DatSwan, Teproc
RoadRunner7671 (1): Eevee
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, RoadRunner7671, faust, O, Galzria
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Just noticed a factual inaccuracy faust posted a while back, because I'm doing a targeted re-read. Sorry I missed it before -- I guess I assume posts with smilies like those in the middle of the text come from unfortunate arrangements of character (the sunglasses eighth bullet-point issue) and sort of skip ery quickly over the post because I assume it'll be posted later with better formatting if it was relevant. But now I realise faust was using the weird yellow faces as fill-in-the-blank symbols..
Now I want to recheck all night actions.
(Snipping N1)
Night 2
X poisons chairs
Z kills ??? (presumably: a Candidate)
Space watches Galzria - no targeter
e does nothing (?)
Qvist uses Protector of the Island
Eevee tracks Qvist - targets are candidates
gkrieg redirects Galzria and someone (only indication for this is Space's result)
Nope, I saw both gkrieg and Qvist target Galz. That's why Galz was the only sensible person to watch last night, in case I'd witnessed the missing scum kill.
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Very hasty list of things that look scummy about faust for D4. It's really late and I need to have been asleep half an hour ago already.
1) Comes into D4 talking about Teproc being scummy, when we now know Teproc is one of the least likely people to be scum.
2) Huge fuss about whether the claimed masons should state their bid numbers before him. What was the point in that?
3) He's actually pointing at the LyLo thing too (#1347), while I think town!faust should have thought Galz's argument through for himself and realised it's not quite right.
4) "Please everyone give their input on whether we should force O to not force me to claim!" -- what possible town utility is there in this style of posting?
5) Being snarky at me when I don't have time to respond, even though he's done exactly the same thing at #1444, which seems very like a cornered scum sort of behaviour.
6) Being argumentative wihtout actually keeping up with the thread, like the thing highlighted by the exchange between him and DatSwan at #1489/#1490.
7) More snarkiness at #1514: it's true that e has predicted pretty much exactly what he'd said.
8) It's day 4 of the game and faust is still alive. That has to be mentioned!
Urgh.. having re-read him, I'm more than happy to go along with vote: faust.
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I'll vote for either/both of faust and datswan, but I think those are my two preferred lynches. I also think we're not gonna get much further today.
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Eevee what realistic lynch candidates are you willing to vote for?
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vote: faust
Upon realizing my mistake regarding the tracking of e this morning, the scum team that I purposed simply doesn't work. If e is scum, Eevee is scum. And since e has been one of my most consistent scum read this game, along with the fact that I absolutely believe LL was blocked N1, that brings me to scum!e & scum!Eevee. I don't really struggle with this as, prior to today, Eevee WAS my biggest gut read to be scum.
Problem is, with Teproc grandstanding for e, he's not getting lynched. And at this point, I don't think Eevee is either. So the last thing to look for would be their partner.
That leaves RR, Faust and DatSwan. Reasonably, it could be any of them. Of those, Space is correct in that Faust sitting in Iguana's space on this team makes bidding sense. It would give scum bids of 3/4/5/73, a very reasonable spread at the lower end. Certainly I think it's more likely than Swan (4/5/23/73) and especially RR (4/5/35/73).
And lastly... well... I don't know what Faust this is. But it doesn't bring to mind any town Faust I've seen. So as the most likely other lynch to myself, and the most likely scum pairing to e and Eevee, I think that's probably where I'll end my vote.
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
Or...say faust flips poisoner. Would that change your read on me? I mean, he flips goon than reading it a a bussing scenario for town-cred to win the game as scum is plausible, though incorrect
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
I think scum came into today with a commanding position, looking for the kill but willing to have a completely open book.
It's possible you're not scum. It's actually a good reason to not lynch you today regardless. As you've claimed not to have used your RB, you're potentially the only player that can still prevent a death and change the game state.
Tomorrow brings more information. If Eevee is town and poisoned right now, for example, that would clear you. In fact, the point that scum didn't know who to safely poison last night is quite beneficial to us because there's a potential windfall of results between Eevee and Space, as well as Teproc/O.
I don't know, e. I've struggled this game to get solid reads. I've posted gut reads on every player still alive in my QT and I read absolutely 0 of you as town. And yet 6 of you are. It's why I'm more focused on the numbers than strictly reads. Reads this game, for me, have just been really hard. I think I've said at multiples points earlier in the game something along the lines of "I can't tell you why, but I believe 'X' is scum". That's terrible town play. I should be better able to form concrete reads, but I simply have not been able to do so.
End of story: If we're still playing tomorrow, and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll reevaluate my reads tomorrow.
I -do- think LL was RB'd, and the only players that aren't you that could be hiding that PR are the VT's and the Masons. So if you're not scum then you should be convinced that either there is 2 scum amongst: RR/Datswan/Faust/Galz, or that the Masons are hoodwinking us.
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
I think scum came into today with a commanding position, looking for the kill but willing to have a completely open book.
It's possible you're not scum. It's actually a good reason to not lynch you today regardless. As you've claimed not to have used your RB, you're potentially the only player that can still prevent a death and change the game state.
Tomorrow brings more information. If Eevee is town and poisoned right now, for example, that would clear you. In fact, the point that scum didn't know who to safely poison last night is quite beneficial to us because there's a potential windfall of results between Eevee and Space, as well as Teproc/O.
I don't know, e. I've struggled this game to get solid reads. I've posted gut reads on every player still alive in my QT and I read absolutely 0 of you as town. And yet 6 of you are. It's why I'm more focused on the numbers than strictly reads. Reads this game, for me, have just been really hard. I think I've said at multiples points earlier in the game something along the lines of "I can't tell you why, but I believe 'X' is scum". That's terrible town play. I should be better able to form concrete reads, but I simply have not been able to do so.
End of story: If we're still playing tomorrow, and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll reevaluate my reads tomorrow.
I -do- think LL was RB'd, and the only players that aren't you that could be hiding that PR are the VT's and the Masons. So if you're not scum then you should be convinced that either there is 2 scum amongst: RR/Datswan/Faust/Galz, or that the Masons are hoodwinking us.
I think it's just incredibly likely that LL didn't perform a night kill the night after almost being lynched in a game with a tracker slot, and only JK'd someone
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Vote: Space
i don't see why scum bus here.
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Vote: Space
i don't see why scum bus here.
Just to be sure I am not taking this out of context - this is to mean that you do not see currently an option of a Space/Faust/XXX team?
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Vote: Space
i don't see why scum bus here.
Just to be sure I am not taking this out of context - this is to mean that you do not see currently an option of a Space/Faust/XXX team?
This is to mean I see it at less likely than Space/Galz/XXX, and I see Faust as the easy+bad lynch.
Just because I can't see why Space would do it doesn't mean that Space wouldn't ever do it.
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Unless you all want to defend O/Teproc/Faust as a possible scum team I assume Galzria and Space at least admit to our Masonry.
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So I am pretty sure that the deadline is 11am my time. As I am a lazy ass that does not wake up until 10am or so, I will be here at the deadline and for a while before hand, but I will probably miss most interaction prior to it (as it will be middle of the night/early morning here).
Want to get my thoughts out at the conclusion of the day (Feel free to TDL;R inside the ***'s, they are just my thoughts):
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Teproc and O - Masons. I believe it. Sue me.
RR - Someone said earlier in the game "the simplest explanation in Mafia is often the correct one" (or something along those lines). RR is not the simpilest explaination I guess, but IMO, if I were the poisoner, the simplest way to protect myself would to be just staying out of it.
E! - Definition of my middle man. Not saying I wouldn't be able to find a lynch on him today, but I don't think he is a best bet we have to find skum.
Space and Eevee - I think it is likely that one of these two are dirty. At first I was leaning Space purely based on the ideal that it would be harder for Eevee to create a lie based on the time that they claimed. Currently, I just don't know. The only way it really makes sense in my head is if it is either both Eevee and Space, or if skum has 2 out of the top 4 picks and they took Tracker as 3. For Space - all of the above points (as they are relevant to Space instead of Eevee) plus the fact that I believe if we think one or the other have to skum then watcher seems to have more utility for the skum team. That being said, I just gut feeling do not think it is Eevee and Space has been so helpful and towny with their posts that I could I guess see a both of them being town scenario.
Faust - I said that I think he is skum, I still pretty much think he is skum, but players that have played just so many more games with him than I seem to think that "this isn't how Skum!Faust would play". My opinion is still mine to have and I think that delaying the claim was strange and skummy, but other than that I guess I don't really have much of a skum reason for Faust.
Qivst - Unless it is like a Teproc/O fake mason claim with Qivst as the partner... Whatever, too much paranoia for that - I think he is town.
Galz - I could write mountains, but I have already said all I have to say, so I wont waste space re-capping my thoughts. He strikes me as the skummiest player around at this point. The die hard read on LL early game (maybe LL is SK or maybe they are not, but Skum!Galz can push it without relent knowing that worse case they take out a town and there is a reason it was pushed so hard), to the weird whatever type of interaction you want to call it with Iguana on Day 2, to his Day 4 over appeal to probability to make a case against me... Unless like O or Teproc somehow got lynched and flipped over as skum I do not see a Day 5 where my opinion can change on this which is why he is still my #1.
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Summary:
My vote sits on Galz and I think he is the best option. Lynching Poisoner>Lynching Skum>Lynching poisoned Town>No Lynch>Lynching Town. Cearly at the point we are just searching for Skum. So, that being said...
I would not argue excessively with switching to RR or Faust.
I guess I could be convinced to switch to E! or Eevee/Space today, but not likely.
I don't see myself voting Teproc, O, Qivst.
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1) Comes into D4 talking about Teproc being scummy, when we now know Teproc is one of the least likely people to be scum.
We don't. Actually it's pretty scummy that you think Teproc is townier than Qvist.
2) Huge fuss about whether the claimed masons should state their bid numbers before him. What was the point in that?
To catch scum. Do you think claim order doesn't matter? It should be obvious that it does. It still grates me that O got to go last.
3) He's actually pointing at the LyLo thing too (#1347), while I think town!faust should have thought Galz's argument through for himself and realised it's not quite right.
It's sufficiently right to be worried. Honestly I feel like your play is mostly nitpicking irrelevant details.
4) "Please everyone give their input on whether we should force O to not force me to claim!" -- what possible town utility is there in this style of posting?
What possible scum utility is there?
8) It's day 4 of the game and faust is still alive. That has to be mentioned!
You could vote Galzria on the same grounds. Or Teproc.
It's telling that all you do to figure this game out is reread a single day from a single player.
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I still prefer RR who has a very good chance of flipping Poisoner, so vote: RR.
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On the other hand... I am at 4 votes, scum!Masons could quickhammer me for the win. I guess I am forced to believe they are town. In that case RR looks like not the best lynch. Vote: DatSwan
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Eevee what realistic lynch candidates are you willing to vote for?
Feeling scummier on Space and Galzria now that I see where their votes landed.
vote: space
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Could do Space, but I still think I prefer Galz.
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Could do Space, but I still think I prefer Galz.
Could do Galz but I still think I prefer space :P
Won't matter unless we magically get to 5:5 and the two of us have to arm wrestle to choose.
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Could do Space, but I still think I prefer Galz.
Could do Galz but I still think I prefer space :P
Won't matter unless we magically get to 5:5 and the two of us have to arm wrestle to choose.
I guess I need to vote where other townies are voting (and I don't really want to vote faust), so alright.
vote: Space
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hey at least the loss is solely on me if space is town and I've been the only one pushing the lynch.
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hey at least the loss is solely on me if space is town and I've been the only one pushing the lynch.
Kinda depends on who is scum. If it's like e/faust/DatSwan/RR somehow, it'll be a rather impressive collective fail.
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Qvist, what do you think of Galz/DatSwan/Space ? Not as a scumteam I mean, as individual likelihood of being scum.
Also interested in what e thinks of this.
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Sorry for being not active, was busy.
I have a hard time seeing Galzria as scum, honestly. I can't see voting for him.
Not sure on the other two. I haven't found any good indication for them being scum at all.
What I find rather odd, is how barely anyone finds RR's way of playing scummy. He drops one liners and didn't really answer my questions.
Does he always play like that?
So top 2 votes for me would faust and RR.
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I have a hard time seeing Galzria as scum, honestly. I can't see voting for him.
This is one of my #1 worries of Galzria. His play seems very towny, I think that's a scumGalz characteristic. Outing himself as a candidate doesn't sound like a scum, especially not a scum poisoner move though.
Just one of those people where you got to feel paranoid if they appear super towny and still leave at day 4. At least faust is playing "a scummy game" on surface, paradoxically why I think he is townier of the two.
If RR was town, wouldn't he be someone scum would probably try to divert attention to?
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I still have a VLA and I'm phone posting 80% of the time, so there's that. I don't think I've been playing overly scummy though.
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Eevee nails it: faust is being scummy which means he's likely town, Galz is being townie (lately) which means he's likely scum. That's meta for you.
RR is being RR-like, yes. He's even more inactive than usual (V/LAs have apparently played a part). Could see him being scum certainly (I could see anyone except Qvist be scum really), but I don't think he's a good lynch today.
However... RR, you should vote. Deadline is later today.
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I have a hard time seeing Galzria as scum, honestly. I can't see voting for him.
This is one of my #1 worries of Galzria. His play seems very towny, I think that's a scumGalz characteristic. Outing himself as a candidate doesn't sound like a scum, especially not a scum poisoner move though.
Well I can't comment on that further as I don't know about that. Still doesn't seem like a good target at all.
If RR was town, wouldn't he be someone scum would probably try to divert attention to?
That is exactly what I don't understand. Barely anyone ever mentions him. At least after Day 2.
I still have a VLA and I'm phone posting 80% of the time, so there's that. I don't think I've been playing overly scummy though.
Fair enough about being busy.
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Galzria - I don't think his play is necessarily 100% townie. Some of his theories are just so off the wall that they are more distracting than helpful. (Well, like, the theories where I am scum).
That being said, i would define his play as lone-wolf everyone-vs-me. Which I don't think scum does here. This is different than faust standing alone and unafraid as partners may or may not be bussing. Galzria is thinking independently of everything. His independent thinking caused people to vote him, rather than people voting him which caused him to stand out alone. It reminds me a little of town!TWM working his way into getting town!TWM lynched in games past.
So Galzria. Town
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DatSwan- I could lynch datswan. A lot of PoE, but also his recent wall posts have felt off. His reasoning, thoughts... feel more fabricated and scummy than town defenses. Not too much else on this read at this time
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Space- I do not think space is today's lynch. While they might very well be scum, I do not think they are poisoner, and with a PR, could be useful to us. Lying scum I results at those point is a real threat, and we should take results with a grain of salt, but don't want to lynch today
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I will lynch DatSwan or faust today
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
mostly similar to Space except that scummy people are much more willing to lynch Swan than space.
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True. It's a little comforting that I seem to at least have found something of a same page with the people I'm thinking/hoping are town.
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
I'm willing to assume that too, as otherwise I would be dead right now. (Outside chance: I have been Poisoned and that is why they don't want me dead)
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
That only means we're scum with faust, obviously.
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
That only means we're scum with faust, obviously.
the long con
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I'm gonna go ahead and Vote: DatSwan for now
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
That only means we're scum with faust, obviously.
It only means the two of you are not scum and faust is town. It could also mean that you two are town and think Faust is town. Or that all of you are scum. It could mean plenty of things
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
Huh? My point is that my analysis colours you two green because most of us think you're likely enough to be town at this point.
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
Thanks!
I have ~2 more hours in my work day, then it's the evening routine of home, shopping, cook-for-household, eat... then it's game time again :-)
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
Huh? My point is that my analysis colours you two green because most of us think you're likely enough to be town at this point.
Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
You may want to clarify further in your question. I believe that's a no. You can only color mod provided information.
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
Thanks!
I have ~2 more hours in my work day, then it's the evening routine of home, shopping, cook-for-household, eat... then it's game time again :-)
We have 4 hours and 40 minutes to the deadline, just a heads up. :)
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I'm here until deadline.
Will lynch:
Faust: Possible teams include Eevee/{RR, DatSwan, e}, Space/{RR, Datswan}, or Teproc/O
Space: Possible teams include RR/DatSwan, RR/Faust, Faust/DatSwan
Datswan: Possible teams include Eevee/{e, RR, Faust}, Space/{RR, Faust}, or RR/Faust
RR: Possible teams include Eevee/{e, DatSwan, Faust}, Space/{DatSwan, Faust}
Eevee: Potential teams include: e/{DatSwan, RR, Faust}, Datswan/{RR, Faust}, RR/Faust
I will not lynch:
O/Teproc - If they're scum, they have a partner. This is LIKELY Faust, making him the better lynch. In the off chance they're scum and Faust is NOT their partner, the lack of a quick hammer can be attributed to Faust potentially being poisoned. Still, Faust is the better lynch.
Qvist - The only player I'm willing to throw the game for being town.
e - There are a lot of teams he could be on, notably all with Eevee. If he's town, he's worth keeping alive today as he still has his RB shot and could modify the game state at night.
I'm less inclined to lynch either of Space or Eevee here though unless needed though - between the potential for NK's confirming players and results, and them acquiring more results, I'm more inclined to let them live for now and try to find scum {Faust, DatSwan, RR}.
For now, my vote stands.
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I'll also be here until the deadline.
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Hey. I was off by 2 hours on EOD, good news there. I’ll be here for the rest. Except for coffee. Must find coffee.
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I'm excited to see another out-of-date analysis which ignores that me and Teproc spent plenty of time online together with Faust at L-2.
Huh? My point is that my analysis colours you two green because most of us think you're likely enough to be town at this point.
Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
You may want to clarify further in your question. I believe that's a no. You can only color mod provided information.
Huh.. I didn't specify Robz-generated vote counts, and he said yes. I think he's very likely to have understood that I intended to include self-counted vote counts.
Robz, are you still cool with that?
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You are good, Space
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Can I post coloured-in vote counts from D1/D2 in-thread now for illustrative purposes?
I've been looking more at early wagons in the light of other suspicions, the intervening flips, and the fact that everyone except maybe faust is willing to assume the Masons are on our side.
You can
Thanks!
I have ~2 more hours in my work day, then it's the evening routine of home, shopping, cook-for-household, eat... then it's game time again :-)
We have 4 hours and 40 minutes to the deadline, just a heads up. :)
Understood. I can't exactly get rid of my real-life commitments, though :-( I have arranged with the person I'm snuggling up on a sofa with later to watch Netflix with that we start at 9pm rather than 8pm (which would be 3pm forum time)... I thought that was a pretty high level of dedication to the game ;-)
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You are good, Space
Yup, that's what I'm looking to prove :-)
(Thank you!)
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These first two vote counts are non-consecutive snapshots of the D1 voting in the runup to the IDP mislynch, and of the lynch itself.
#737
LaLight (8): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana, Witherweaver
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Chairs
IDontPlayThisGame (7): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., O, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc
#784
LaLight (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Chairs
IDontPlayThisGame (9): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver, O, Eevee
Looking first at the LL wagon above, I really don't think he's got only one scum on his tail, and nor should the rest of you. This means there ought to be one scum between Eevee and Galz (and is more obvious in my personal version where I'm coloured green too, but I know I'm not winning friends by posting that here). Looking at the IDP wagon, it's clear in retrospect that they're both "good" wagons for scum, in terms of none of the Others being on anyone's radar yet. The fact that Eevee was trying to look so townie by being around to push something through at the very end is a bit suspicious if you look at it in terms of him knowing where his scum buddies were at, especially if we're happy to accept that none of the previous three IDP votes came from anyone on the scum team.
Next is the actual LL lynch, at the end of D2. He was being scummy, at least for those of us who know him well, and I'd count myself in that pool.. not necessarily all of the people on that wagon. The iffy ones would be DatSwan and Galz, since they can't have played with LL that much, and yet are right at the head of his wagon.
#1125
LaLight (8): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Chairs, Qvist, Jimmmmm
Lastly, here's the count that was current when I started posting:
#1944
faust (4): 2.71828....., Qvist, SpaceAnemone, Galzria
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (3): O, Eevee, Teproc
DatSwan (2): faust, Roadrunner7671
Of the people joining me on faust, I think the most obvious thing I might calls as a straight bus is e, and I feel the need to reiterate that e is only cleared by Eevee (if we can trust Eevee!) as non-poisoner, not non-scum. The odd thing with this is Galz's vote, though. He shifted to faust on the basis of my numbers argument, which I admit was not intended as a strong case. And yet he bought it enough to vote faust, but not enough to vote e, who was the poisoner in that particular proposed scumteam I presented, in spite of various people arguing that we have to lynch the poisoner now and not just someone who's likely to be actual scum. The other obvious candidate for Galz, if he really agreed with my scenario, ought to be Eevee. Not only would an Eevee scum flip point really strongly to poisoner!e, but from Galz's point of view, Eevee and I should be pretty strong candidates, looking back at the things like the interactions above.
I appear to have found myself at a point where the townread I had on Galz is less relevant.
A vote: Galz can stay there till I'm done with dinner at least. Back in about an hour and totally willing to move back to faust.
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The problem with voting e, Space, is that it's simply a terrible move right now. Yes, he could be scum. Yes, he could be the Poisoner. But if he's town he's the only person alive that can stop a scum kill. There is no world in which lynching him today is EVER the right move.
Regarding Eevee: He's scum before e. That is, e can be town or scum, and Eevee can be anything. But if e is scum, so is Eevee. So lynching Eevee would always take precedent. But much like you, there's a reasonableness to not lynching him today in that either: he's NOT scum and dies tonight, he's NOT scum and gets results for a potential tomorrow, or he IS scum and is forced to create more results for tomorrow.
Additionally, as I noted in the post where I voted Faust, a large part of my vote was on viability. Nobody wanted to or was interested in an e/Eevee vote. Why would I waste my time voting there?
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"Next is the actual LL lynch, at the end of D2. He was being scummy, at least for those of us who know him well, and I'd count myself in that pool.. not necessarily all of the people on that wagon. The iffy ones would be DatSwan and Galz, since they can't have played with LL that much, and yet are right at the head of his wagon."
And this.... what? LaLight lied, intentionally or not, about his bid. I will lynch based on this every time. Further, an argument that "Galz doesn't know him well enough to know he was being scummy" is kinda ridiculous. Scummy is scummy. LaLight was scummy D1. LaLight lied D1. I called this out D1. LaLight continued to be scummy D2, and I continued to vote LaLight D2. LaLight wasn't Mafia. From that perspective it was as good as a Town Lynch for Mafia (better, actually) - but town!Galz wouldn't know that. All I knew was that LaLight had lied to get himself off a lynch block, and then tried to back track when called out on it. I won't apologize for that vote or lynch.
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Why can't e be scum if I'm town? He can't be the poisoner, but he could have ninja killed the night I tracked him, for example. (Other than that, I agree with your post though.)
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Space's analysis is a whole bunch of nothing to me. It's pretty baseless... why is the IDPTG wagon more likely to have scum ? Why is the LL wagon likely to have however many scum on it Space thinks there was ?
Really it seems to me like nothing Space says in this post has anything to do with wagons, it's just normal reads given the illusion of authority by wrapping them up within voting analysis. I don't think this is particularly indicative of Space being scum in and of itself, but it sure isn't indicative of them being town either.
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Like, look at that LaLight wagon. The only non-conf!town (YMV on me and to a lesser degree Qvist, but still) on it is e... so yeah, there's scum on it. He was a SK, so... there's nothing there. If Space was saying "this argument X was making in favor of Y's lynch doesn't seem genuine because Z", I'd follow, but I don't see anything resembling a reasoning here.
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Why can't e be scum if I'm town? He can't be the poisoner, but he could have ninja killed the night I tracked him, for example. (Other than that, I agree with your post though.)
I believe e is what he's claimed to be. If that's accurate, I think he would've RB'd LL N1. But you claim he didn't go anywhere. So. Scum!e = Scum!Eevee.
Teproc and O don't think this is true because e risks being tracked. But you're the Tracker. What did he have to be scared of? Maybe that somebody Watched LL, sure. But he didn't kill him. He just Roleblocked him. That's easy enough to argue out of - especially when evidence later would suggest that e didn't visit LL to poison him.
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ANd yes, e can be scum with Eevee being town, especially given the JOAT claim. I don't think Eevee and e should be considered as a pair in the way Galz is suggesting.
PPE: If e is scum, one of his partners can be an actual full Roleblocker. I don't know think scum uses their shot on presumedJK!LaLight if they're not also killing him.
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WHo's putting words in whose mouth now ? I don't think JOAT!e roleblocking LL on N1 is unlikely because of fear of a Tracker (what are scum supposed to do, never use any role ?), I think it's unlikely because I think e is town.
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Teproc is looking real towny now, I've stopped being (so) worried about the masons.
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vote: Space
More viable than Faust it seems. And if they're town then we're not lynching scum without Tep/O, so...
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I think I may vote for Galzria.
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PPE.
Vote: Galzria
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I agree that we shouldn't vote for masons.
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WHo's putting words in whose mouth now ? I don't think JOAT!e roleblocking LL on N1 is unlikely because of fear of a Tracker (what are scum supposed to do, never use any role ?), I think it's unlikely because I think e is town.
I think O said it, not you. But yes, I'm pairing you two together.
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
I think scum came into today with a commanding position, looking for the kill but willing to have a completely open book.
It's possible you're not scum. It's actually a good reason to not lynch you today regardless. As you've claimed not to have used your RB, you're potentially the only player that can still prevent a death and change the game state.
Tomorrow brings more information. If Eevee is town and poisoned right now, for example, that would clear you. In fact, the point that scum didn't know who to safely poison last night is quite beneficial to us because there's a potential windfall of results between Eevee and Space, as well as Teproc/O.
I don't know, e. I've struggled this game to get solid reads. I've posted gut reads on every player still alive in my QT and I read absolutely 0 of you as town. And yet 6 of you are. It's why I'm more focused on the numbers than strictly reads. Reads this game, for me, have just been really hard. I think I've said at multiples points earlier in the game something along the lines of "I can't tell you why, but I believe 'X' is scum". That's terrible town play. I should be better able to form concrete reads, but I simply have not been able to do so.
End of story: If we're still playing tomorrow, and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll reevaluate my reads tomorrow.
I -do- think LL was RB'd, and the only players that aren't you that could be hiding that PR are the VT's and the Masons. So if you're not scum then you should be convinced that either there is 2 scum amongst: RR/Datswan/Faust/Galz, or that the Masons are hoodwinking us.
I think it's just incredibly likely that LL didn't perform a night kill the night after almost being lynched in a game with a tracker slot, and only JK'd someone
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How many hours left and vote count?
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Galzria, suppose faust flips scum, does that change your read on me? Or you just assume I came into the day ready and willing to bus?
I think scum came into today with a commanding position, looking for the kill but willing to have a completely open book.
It's possible you're not scum. It's actually a good reason to not lynch you today regardless. As you've claimed not to have used your RB, you're potentially the only player that can still prevent a death and change the game state.
Tomorrow brings more information. If Eevee is town and poisoned right now, for example, that would clear you. In fact, the point that scum didn't know who to safely poison last night is quite beneficial to us because there's a potential windfall of results between Eevee and Space, as well as Teproc/O.
I don't know, e. I've struggled this game to get solid reads. I've posted gut reads on every player still alive in my QT and I read absolutely 0 of you as town. And yet 6 of you are. It's why I'm more focused on the numbers than strictly reads. Reads this game, for me, have just been really hard. I think I've said at multiples points earlier in the game something along the lines of "I can't tell you why, but I believe 'X' is scum". That's terrible town play. I should be better able to form concrete reads, but I simply have not been able to do so.
End of story: If we're still playing tomorrow, and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll reevaluate my reads tomorrow.
I -do- think LL was RB'd, and the only players that aren't you that could be hiding that PR are the VT's and the Masons. So if you're not scum then you should be convinced that either there is 2 scum amongst: RR/Datswan/Faust/Galz, or that the Masons are hoodwinking us.
I think it's just incredibly likely that LL didn't perform a night kill the night after almost being lynched in a game with a tracker slot, and only JK'd someone
Also, I mistook what he said, so nevermind.
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How many hours left and vote count?
1h 40m
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Ignore this post, I was a bad dog.
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PPE.
Vote: Galzria
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Missed the Eevee switch
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vote: Space
More viable than Faust it seems. And if they're town then we're not lynching scum without Tep/O, so...
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And mine
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Vote Count 4.6
faust (2): 2.71828, Qvist
Galzria (3): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, Eevee
SpaceAnemone (3): O, Teproc, Galzria
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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Vote: Space
I don't see Galzria. And RR and faust voting for DatSwan doesn't want me to vote for him.
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Hmm. The people aboard the Space wagon are the people I would like to vote with.
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Vote: Space
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L-1.
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I do like that the only person on this wagon I heavily suspect is Galz, who's voting (at least partly) for self-preservation anyway.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
Well, if Space is town and not poisoned anyway.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
Indeed. From your PoV I think the only possible scumteam left is Eevee/e/RR/faust. Well, that and the Masons conspiracy theories of course.
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Oh, right forgot about the poisoned town possibility.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
Indeed. From your PoV I think the only possible scumteam left is Eevee/e/RR/faust. Well, that and the Masons conspiracy theories of course.
Scum Space and Swan are still quite possible.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
Indeed. From your PoV I think the only possible scumteam left is Eevee/e/RR/faust. Well, that and the Masons conspiracy theories of course.
Scum Space and Swan are still quite possible.
Point and case
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Feels better to see Swan not hammer immediately.
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Yeah obviousl, i formulated that wrong, I meant that's the only team that could still win by hammering.
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Like, look at that LaLight wagon. The only non-conf!town (YMV on me and to a lesser degree Qvist, but still) on it is e... so yeah, there's scum on it. He was a SK, so... there's nothing there. If Space was saying "this argument X was making in favor of Y's lynch doesn't seem genuine because Z", I'd follow, but I don't see anything resembling a reasoning here.
I'm not very eloquent about cases, but that's kind of exactly what I was saying in the Galz part at least. And yes, I accept that in that part it was more the fact he was voting faust at all than the composition of the wagon that caught my attention, but for the earlier parts it's definitely wagon analysis.
Anyway, given the argument Galz was making about numbers, and the fact that he suddenly switched to buying into my numbers argument instead of his former one, then him coming out in favour of fausts's lynch doesn't seem genuine because it doesn't gel with the "we have to lynch the poisoner" argument. That's at least in a format more close to your template.
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Yes, I think that argument (his willingness to accept a weak case) was actually a decent one. Good news (for me) is, you can both be scum !
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
Logic does not parse.
If Space is town, and you are scum, then with the caveat that they could be poisoned you would've come in and hammered. No real reason not to as scum. But you didn't. You posted instead. That suggests that more likely than not the pairing of "Town!Space & Scum!Swan" is not accurate. There are 3 other options that are all still possible though: Scum!Space/Town!Swan, Town!Space/Town!Swan, and Scum!Space/Scum!Swan.
It was simply a comment on your lack of hammer - something others have noted (as they should) as well.
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Vote Count 4.7
faust (1): 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
Are you trying to use "his guy" to refer to me here? Not a guy, thanks! Also not scum, but that part you maybe know already :-(
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Argh.. still cooking. Please someone post a decent case on why I'm more likely to be scum than Galz or Eevee or e, rather than just saying that those are people who're less likely to have time for a lynch wagon to form :-(
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DatSwan has been referring to you with masculine pronouns yes, I forgot to correct him earlier (to DatSwan: Space prefers "they").
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Argh.. still cooking. Please someone post a decent case on why I'm more likely to be scum than Galz or Eevee or e, rather than just saying that those are people who're less likely to have time for a lynch wagon to form :-(
You're less likely to be town than e or Eevee because you're not townie (granted you're not explicitely scummy all that much).
You became less likely to be town than Galz with DatSwan not hammering. Well, you could be poisoned town still.
For me, the case on you is mostly PoE + you not being townie.
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
Are you trying to use "his guy" to refer to me here? Not a guy, thanks! Also not scum, but that part you maybe know already :-(
Apologies. Force of habit.
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For me, the case on you is mostly PoE + you not being townie.
This is as townie as I get!! You've played in games with me before.. have you seen my mislynch stats for being too robotic or not engaged enough or too self-conscious or whatever else people accuse me of? I can't help it.. this is just how I play/type/talk/whatever :-(
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Argh.. still cooking. Please someone post a decent case on why I'm more likely to be scum than Galz or Eevee or e, rather than just saying that those are people who're less likely to have time for a lynch wagon to form :-(
If he's town, e is more valuable than you here, sorry. The ability to RB and definitively stop a NK is worth more than an incriminating result that creates a 50/50 choice in a mislynch and lose scenario.
Eevee is more scummy than you by miles and miles. Teproc and O won't vote there though, and they're required to lynch scum here (granting them town status). As I do believe that one of the two of you are scum, and Tep/O believe it to be you, here I am. I'll be the first to admit my own reads have been all gut with nothing to support them this game. Pure gut says Eevee/e/Faust. If you look back at my posts throughout the game you'll see that's supported since D1. But I very well may be wrong, so.... :-/
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For me, the case on you is mostly PoE + you not being townie.
This is as townie as I get!! You've played in games with me before.. have you seen my mislynch stats for being too robotic or not engaged enough or too self-conscious or whatever else people accuse me of? I can't help it.. this is just how I play/type/talk/whatever :-(
I think I've only played Smallville with you ? I did suspect you initially there, but you got much townier at the game went on and you got a lot of pressure.
I don't think you're robotic or self-conscious, nor do I think those traits would be scummy for you (though "robotic" would never have come tp mind really)... but I don't feel like you've really been trying to contribute to finding scum. You've done a lot of analysis (which I know is your thing) but it never feels like it's to a purpose other than seeming to be active.
And maybe I'm wrong about that, and if I am then I'm sorry. But that's what it looks like to me.
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You're less likely to be town than e or Eevee because you're not townie (granted you're not explicitely scummy all that much).
Good, let's start from here. You say I'm not townie. At best, you might grant me that my style is something that gets me mislynched a lot... so clearly since I'm town most of the time (as is everyone; though me in particular it seems!) it's in my best interest to correct that if possible, and its persistence is something that's unfortunate for my play, but not quite enough to make me give up in frustration. (Some of the people around here really are nice people... even faust).
Now look at the things people have actually done, rather than the elegance or not of how they've presented them, or how much of them they've had time to do. I can post a complete voting history of the game if you and O want to see, coloured up with whatever player colours you guys need to see the actual voting patterns. Would that help at all?
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Eevee is more scummy than you by miles and miles. Teproc and O won't vote there though, and they're required to lynch scum here (granting them town status).
Argh.. I wanted so much for you to be wrong on the mason block needing to be involved, but I guess you're mostly right. Though technically we only need one of them to agree, and then all of the actual-town people. It's very convenient for you to find a high-likelihood scummy player unvotable, though :-(
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I do not see this being a better lynch than Faust or Galz. If we are right that is just awesome but if we are wrong we kill a friendly PR and unless poisoned etc.... lose like on the spot.
I guess we could gain the info from a mislynch that Eevee would look skummy if Space flips Town, but that is just such a shitty reason to do it over Faust or Galz.
I am aware of the time left.
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Eevee is more scummy than you by miles and miles. Teproc and O won't vote there though, and they're required to lynch scum here (granting them town status).
Argh.. I wanted so much for you to be wrong on the mason block needing to be involved, but I guess you're mostly right. Though technically we only need one of them to agree, and then all of the actual-town people. It's very convenient for you to find a high-likelihood scummy player unvotable, though :-(
Sorry. :(
Unfortunately if I say Up, Teproc says down. I say black, he says white. I say Eevee is scummy, and he's certain not to vote there. :(
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I think we should lynch Space.
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Vote: Datswan
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I feel like DatSwan is the best lynch we can actually do
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Vote Count 4.8
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (3): faust, RoadRuner7671, 2.71828
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
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I will vote space in the next 20 minutes of nothing happens though
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Space, I'm not criticizing your overall playstyle Space, though if you're town I suppose I am, for this particular game anyway.
No, the voting thing doesn't help. Partly because I keep a vote count myself, but even then because that's just information that's readily available. It's helpful, but plenty of people can be helpful as scum (I sure can), and I believe scum!you would do this stuff, simply because collecting information is something you enjoy doing (I can sympathize).
I can't tell you how to be townie, by definition really, townie is just "doing stuff that makes me think you're town".
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Hey, we don't lose the game ! Wait no, could still be Galz/Eevee/faust/RR.
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It's not!
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It's not!
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Also, Space, it's on both the mislynchers and the mislynchee when a mislynch happen, so if that turns out to be the case, well, I'll try to recalibrate and try to understand why I got you wrong this time around. It's by this process that I've arrived at not lynching faust in this game... something I might well be wrong about, but you know, it's all just educated guesswork anyway.
PPE: Yeah, if one of you is town (and assume myself O and Qvist are town) you know we're getting another day regardless.
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A lynch hasn't happened yet....
Why does teproc act like one has?
-
Can we lynch DatSwan now? Please?
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
-
But I'm not scum, and you people do this to me every time! What am I supposed to change? I'm engaging as much as I can, I correctly pushed the lynch on LL, and I'm trying hard to find plausible teams that work with all the infomration we have now, while doing nothing at all that furthers any possible scum agenda (that I can see at least) and you're still calling me scummy :-( This is so frustrating.
-
A lynch hasn't happened yet....
Why does teproc act like one has?
He's not exactly. He's speculating that at this point either:
A) Space is scum
Or
B) Space is Poisoned
-
Why is DatSwan not voting Space?
I could see space and DatSwan as partners, but I seriously doubt space is the poisoner
-
But I'm not scum, and you people do this to me every time! What am I supposed to change? I'm engaging as much as I can, I correctly pushed the lynch on LL, and I'm trying hard to find plausible teams that work with all the infomration we have now, while doing nothing at all that furthers any possible scum agenda (that I can see at least) and you're still calling me scummy :-( This is so frustrating.
I believe you!
-
Well, not really.... but I don't think we should lynch you today
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
That's generous of you. Is it all pointless now? Because I have a very lovely person sitting here waiting for me to have sofa time... I just wanted to avoid losing the game for town too :-(
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
Why? There is no way space is the poisoner
-
Why is DatSwan not voting Space?
I could see space and DatSwan as partners, but I seriously doubt space is the poisoner
I have made it quite clear why I am not voting space. And I do not appreciate being bullied into a quick decision. Give me 3 more minutes and I will do what I’m gonna do.
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I don't know what I can tell you. Getting mislynched is always frustrating. At worst, people will be more and more hesitant to lynch you as you get mislynched over and over (see also: RR, Awaclus). FWIW, while my stats do indicate you get mislynched a lot (#10 overall), you still get night killed more, which means that in those games scum sees you as a threat (and thus not a likely mislynch).
-
Scum!space is a scum watcher. Like, obviously so. Why do you want to lynch the not-poisoner, other than just being anti-town?
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
That's generous of you. Is it all pointless now? Because I have a very lovely person sitting here waiting for me to have sofa time... I just wanted to avoid losing the game for town too :-(
The good news if you're town is that based on who's posted now, you're likely poisoned and set to die anyway. We'll still have another day to try and catch the Poisoner (and exclusively him).
To that end, if you're not scum, please provide your thoughts.
If you are scum, then I don't have much left for you.
-
O and Teproc: would you at least reconsider on Galz, given that I presented actual evidence there? Or Datswan if Galz's old evidence there hald more weight for you instead?
e: would you be willing to move that way, given that you agree I'm not a good lynch today? Though I think your current vote on faust is also well-placed.
-
I will lynch faust or datswan
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Scum!space is a scum watcher. Like, obviously so. Why do you want to lynch the not-poisoner, other than just being anti-town?
Any scum is good scum today. And while lynching the Poisoner would be fantastic, the odds of us doing so are at their slimmest today.
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
Why? There is no way space is the poisoner
That is a problem yes. But if we lynch three scum in a row, we can get to the poisoner last. It's nicer to get to him first to get an extra day, but in the end it's better to lynch the person most likely to be scum.
PPE: I would lynch Galz... well, I think all the non-hammering means I prefer you (Space) over him at this point.
-
I will lynch faust or datswan
Why would you make this so damn difficult! I said that Faust is a better option!
Why fight me?
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I will lynch faust or datswan
Why would you make this so damn difficult! I said that Faust is a better option!
Why fight me?
I have been voting faust all day. I don't think I am fighting you, just calling you scum. I am willing to partner with scum to lynch scum.
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The good news if you're town is that based on who's posted now, you're likely poisoned and set to die anyway. We'll still have another day to try and catch the Poisoner (and exclusively him).
This is something, but it's not exactly making me warm and fuzzy with a feeling of a job well-done :-( I'm really sorry I suck at this part!
To that end, if you're not scum, please provide your thoughts.
Colour me green in the wagons I posted and look at where the likely Iguana partners are sitting -- that's the first thing.
PPE some but I think I'm still alive...
-
I personally am decided, and assume Space will be lynched. But you, feel free to try.
That's generous of you. Is it all pointless now? Because I have a very lovely person sitting here waiting for me to have sofa time... I just wanted to avoid losing the game for town too :-(
Well, as Galz pointed out if you're town we haven't lost yet. And also the loss would not be on you any more than on me or O or whoever else is town and on-wagon.
-
plus, datswan, you are voting galzria, not faust
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plus, datswan, you are voting galzria, not faust
I've surely asked this beofre, but why do you think Galz is town again ?
-
PPE: I would lynch Galz... well, I think all the non-hammering means I prefer you (Space) over him at this point.
Vote: Galz is way more sensible, people!
-
plus, datswan, you are voting galzria, not faust
Bc I have been debating Space and I think Galz is the best option!
I will switch to Faust if people will help me get there but I still right now think Galz is best option.
-
Guys, there's like 2 minutes left.
-
plus, datswan, you are voting galzria, not faust
I've surely asked this beofre, but why do you think Galz is town again ?
Because his posts lead me to that conclusion...i posted a bigger post earlier last night I believe
-
Guys, there's like 2 minutes left.
3 minutes
-
Guys, there's like 2 minutes left.
3 minutes
2 now. You're not getting a faust or DatSwan wagon in the meantime. Feel free to blame me later if Space is town.
-
Vote: space
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Guys, there's like 2 minutes left.
3 minutes
2 now. You're not getting a faust or DatSwan wagon in the meantime. Feel free to blame me later if Space is town.
Blaming town for not knowing who scum is.... doesn't seem like it gets us anywhere. Plus, they might be scum!
-
:'(
-
When do we find out if we messed up or not?
-
When do we find out if we messed up or not?
Robz is around, so soon.
-
Also, just post thought here... E!, why are you on me so much about not being on Space if you could of just hammered him?
-
You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?
Vote Count 4.Final
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.
Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.
-
All Dharma Initiative personnel are under orders to return to the Barracks by 4 PM today to deal with the Hostiles in our midst. As a reminder, night actions are due by then. Thank you. Namaste.
-
Greetings, everyone. Thank you all for returning here to the Barracks. For those of you who happened to pass by the massive pit on your way here, I have some news: this is not a mass grave where the Hostiles are planning to dump our bodies. We are perfectly safe.
Yes, the Hostiles may have seized control of the Tempest, but we are here for science! And the work continues.
Sadly, LaFleur reports that not everyone made it back... alive.
Qvist was found dead of a gunshot wound to the chest. He was Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, the Crash Survivors-aligned Protector of the Island.
2.71828..... succumbed to poison. He was Tom Friendly, the Crash Survivors-aligned Jack of all Trades. He was also a Candidate.
Thread unlocked. Day 5 begins now. Namaste, and good luck.
-
Ok then. Now we have a scum flip with actual meaningful interactions, so everyone's job is to reread Space and their interactions.
Those who have access to it might also want to reread the Candidates QT, since so many of us are still alive.
-
I guess first order of business is Eevee claiming his target/result.
-
Don't know if I should be happy or sad that e died. Well. I'll reread Space at some point, but I have to manage to move to a new flat by next weekend, so it might take a bit longer.
-
I'm at work for 11 hours today, so I'll read anything people post, but won't really be able to do much myself. I'm off tomorrow though, so I'll go through and reread interactions and look at vote wagons and histories.
Also, O, good job.
I will NOT be lynching or even consider lynching O/Teproc today. The lynch of Space is enough to confirm them as town to the point that I'll happily lose the game to them at this point if they're scum.
This leaves: RR/Datswan/Faust///Eevee - With Eevee my least-likely-to-be-scum now player (I just don't think both Tracker and Watcher were Mafia). Still, I'll include him in my rereads.
-
In that respect, it's fortunate for us that e died last night. It's reduced the pool for potential scum to reside. As he was poisioned, Mafia had no control over preventing it following the claims yesterday.
Further, it's possible that he blocked the poisoner last night. Not something we should count on mind you - but it is possible.
-
In that respect, it's fortunate for us that e died last night. It's reduced the pool for potential scum to reside. As he was poisioned, Mafia had no control over preventing it following the claims yesterday.
Further, it's possible that he blocked the poisoner last night. Not something we should count on mind you - but it is possible.
I'd go so far as to say likely, but I also agree we absolutely can't count on it. Don't know how much it'd change the math anyway ? Lynching 5 scum in a row is the plan anyway.
-
Two other things:
- people should refrain from expressing their reads before Eevee has claimed.
- when rereading D3, bear in mind that e was poisoned, which means that scum wouldn't win by lynching him.
-
I tracked RR for No result.
I agree that in the light of yesterday's lynch, the masons can be just considered town. It was pretty impressive we hit scum yesterday, yay us!
-
Eevee, what do you think this means for RR's alignment ?
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
For all of D4 I thought there were 2 scum left wtf
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Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
For all of D4 I thought there were 2 scum left wtf
I get that you're busy and in 3 games, but come on man, half of D4 was people speculating about whole scum teams. But it doesn't matter now I suppose.
-
Yes, two scum left. Started with four, we lynched Iguana and Space. There is the poisoner and some other role we don't know, right?
Eevee, what do you think this means for RR's alignment ?
Well, they can't be the poisoner, unless scum had a way of blocking me. (Makes this role much less useful not knowing if it's no result or no one!) He also can't have been the one to shoot unless they had a ninja kill or a way of blocking me.
Eh, unfortunately I think it's not a very useful result, it's got to make RR at least a little townier I guess.
RR/Datswan/Faust/Galzria
is the pool, two are scum.
I'm still thinking faust is the towniest from yesterday, can't really say from the others. Rereading yesterday's end and who helped lynching SA seems very relevant here.
-
Eevee, what do you think this means for RR's alignment ?
Well, they can't be the poisoner, unless scum had a way of blocking me. (Makes this role much less useful not knowing if it's no result or no one!) He also can't have been the one to shoot unless they had a ninja kill or a way of blocking me.
Eh, unfortunately I think it's not a very useful result, it's got to make RR at least a little townier I guess.
RR/Datswan/Faust/Galzria
is the pool, two are scum.
I'm still thinking faust is the towniest from yesterday, can't really say from the others. Rereading yesterday's end and who helped lynching SA seems very relevant here.
[/quote]
So I am going to go ahead and say that if town got a kill off and Eevee is still alive the "lynch pool" should consist of RR/Swan/Faust/Galz + Eevee...
-
#QuoteFail
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
Why are Teproc and O confirmed town then?
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
Why are Teproc and O confirmed town then?
I led a completely uncalled for lynch against scum that was completely outside the likely lynch pool yesterday. Given the potential team of Teproc/O/Space, there was like a <3% chance that Me, Teproc, or Space would be lynched at that point in time and maybe a <5-10% chance that e, the town member who was poisoned, would be lynched. So like a 90%+ chance really that if me and Teproc were scum, we'd have won on the spot if not for me.
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
Why are Teproc and O confirmed town then?
I led a completely uncalled for lynch against scum that was completely outside the likely lynch pool yesterday. Given the potential team of Teproc/O/Space, there was like a <3% chance that Me, Teproc, or Space would be lynched at that point in time and maybe a <5-10% chance that e, the town member who was poisoned, would be lynched. So like a 90%+ chance really that if me and Teproc were scum, we'd have won on the spot if not for me.
Yeah I’m with Galz on this one. If it’s Teproc/O team fake mason then clap clap clap you got me fooled.
-
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
Why are Teproc and O confirmed town then?
I led a completely uncalled for lynch against scum that was completely outside the likely lynch pool yesterday. Given the potential team of Teproc/O/Space, there was like a <3% chance that Me, Teproc, or Space would be lynched at that point in time and maybe a <5-10% chance that e, the town member who was poisoned, would be lynched. So like a 90%+ chance really that if me and Teproc were scum, we'd have won on the spot if not for me.
Also you could have hammered me, and I'm not scum. I guess there woud have been an issue if e blocked one of you, but I think you could have pulled off the hammer without looking terribly suspicious. So yes, I guess you're town. Sorry.
-
My gut tells me to go for DatSwan, but I realized that e scumread him and it is likely that he got blocked, which makes him slightly less likely scum as we had a kill.
-
Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
-
Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
-
How today is going to work is that O and I will be doing our own scumhunting in our QT and you guys do your own here, because I want to see what scum does without knowing what we're thinking. Which means - sorry town - you'll have to the whole work of rereading and looking at vote counts and all that stuff on your own ! Yesterday was a very instructive day (I mean obviously, pseudo-lylo and we lynched scum with 2 minutes on the clock, that's always going to be a goldmine).
-
Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
Did you think he was the most likely scum? Did you think he was the most likely Poisoner?
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Doing some rereading of yesterday. I'm not building into anything here, just pointing out things that seem relevant.
Well. This is how this ends:
I'm town. There's 7 town, 3 scum. It takes 6 to lynch. If O and Teproc are town then their commitment to lynching me has just cost town the game. Even if I could convince all 4 other town to vote for DatSwan, or RR, or e, or Space, or whoever - it's not enough to lynch. We only number 5 without town!O and town!Teproc, and it takes 6 to lynch.
So, the only chance town has is if Tep and O are in fact scum. That still leaves the possibility that we can rally to win.
vote: Teproc as the only viable option.
If you do lynch me, the only saving hope we have is that I'm poisoned right now. I've confirmed with Robz that if we fail to lynch scum, or the poisoned player, and there are in fact no ways to stop scum tonight then he will, indeed, call the game immediately.
In the event that the game is still going on: Scum are likely e (Roleblocker/Joat), Swan (Poisoneer), Space (Watcher).
Note that I DON'T think Teproc and O are scum. Simply that as town they've locked us into a probable loss by voting for me - and prevented us from actually lynching scum today.
This looks scummy, especially given how the masons eventually lead us to a scum lynch Galzria wouldn't participate in. Noteworthy that a few posts later Galzria changed his mind, and voted for Swan.
OK I have done some reading and it is extremely late so reasoning will have to follow if needed... But I am not seeing the Space case here. I get that yeah it is probably what he would do if X and Y happened and he is Skum!Space but, it just seems too perfect.
I re read as Skum!Space and I re read as Town!Space... I can see arguments fo finding links to Skum!Space, but they all can be inferred as how a Town Tracker would play. I just don't see them being the lynch. Even if I am wrong and they are skum then we still miss the poisoner I think? There is no way for skum to talk during the day so if they were skum, and pulling a poisoner-watcher switch - why would they pick to claim tracking a high profile target like Galz last night? They could not of known it was true.
Obviously I also am against lynching myself. But I am kind of over defending that at this point. If anyone wants to pursue it I will be happy to elaborate further.
Faust is quite clearly skum.
I get that we are trying to find the poisoner, and that because of this he isn't the one who is poisoned.... but if our lynch pool consists of the 1) the AFK dude that pops in with numbers every once and a while, 2) skum!Faust, and 3) Me...
Then we have a problem because only one of us is for sure flipping skum in that group and I cannot believe he is the poisoner as played.
I think we need to consider the outlier idea, that the poisoner would be deliberately quiet to just stay out of action. I said it day 1 and I will say it again. RR.
Here is Swan saying he doesn't think Space is scum.
In post #1743 space () Space gives out reads.
2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
RR posts his lynchpool, doesn't include Space.
Posting now because things are getting interesting at this point (post 1838), Space wagon is kicking off.
-
This looks scummy, especially given how the masons eventually lead us to a scum lynch Galzria wouldn't participate in. Noteworthy that a few posts later Galzria changed his mind, and voted for Swan.
galzria voted for Space, btw
-
given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
Swan trying to save Space.
@O
I see that now, I misremembered!
I think I want to lynch Swan. I didn't remember Galzria being there to help us lynch Space in the end.
-
The end of day wasn't as useful as one might hope. RR missed all the fun not being active (scum points), Galzria had his vote on DatSwan for a bit but eventually helped lynch Space.
After the reread, I still don't think faust is scum.
-
Eevee, did you reread during the night ?
-
Eevee, did you reread during the night ?
No, just now. Skimmed some, and skipped the claiming stuff that seemed to take 20 pages.
-
Could the person who borrowed my favorite Miles Davis record please return it to the rec room immediately? Thank you. Namaste.
Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting (7): Galzria, faust, DatSwan, O, Eevee, Teproc, RoadRunner7671
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on October 19th at 4 PM.
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Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
Did you think he was the most likely scum? Did you think he was the most likely Poisoner?
Eevee, did you see this?
-
I think I should schedule my rereads so you can prod me if I fall behind.
Space: 16th
Galzria & RR: 17th
DatSwan & Eevee: 18th
-
Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
Did you think he was the most likely scum? Did you think he was the most likely Poisoner?
Eevee, did you see this?
I did not! Makes me wonder how many posts I miss per game, thanks for reposting.
Just most likely scum. I really expected to die, this probably indicates that scum has ninja powers at their disposal?
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Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
Did you think he was the most likely scum? Did you think he was the most likely Poisoner?
Eevee, did you see this?
I did not! Makes me wonder how many posts I miss per game, thanks for reposting.
Just most likely scum. I really expected to die, this probably indicates that scum has ninja powers at their disposal?
And where, my dear Eevee, do you suggest scum obtained said Ninja powers?
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Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
You may, I thought he was very potential scum was my reason. I didn't expect to live to tell the tale.
Did you think he was the most likely scum? Did you think he was the most likely Poisoner?
Eevee, did you see this?
I did not! Makes me wonder how many posts I miss per game, thanks for reposting.
Just most likely scum. I really expected to die, this probably indicates that scum has ninja powers at their disposal?
I don't know. It's LyLo, we can't really trust you even if you have a guilty result. Scum can exploit that.
-
I find it unlikely that scum would taken Watcher + Ninja. Those roles don't really synergize together.
-
I find it unlikely that scum would taken Watcher + Ninja. Those roles don't really synergize together.
It doesn't matter what's likely or not. It matters what's possible or not.
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I find it unlikely that scum would taken Watcher + Ninja. Those roles don't really synergize together.
It doesn't matter what's likely or not. It matters what's possible or not.
Right. Ninja is in the same slot as Poisoner, and we know town!e went for Barracks.
-
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisoner
2. ?????? (8 or 15)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. ???? (52 to 72)
9. e (73): Barracks, JoaT (Unchoson Options: Godfather, Investigation Immune)
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. ???? (23)
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. ??? (3)
17. ??? (3)
Unclaimed bids:
gkrieg - Draft #11 or #8: Redirector
chairs - ????: VT
WW - ????: VT
IDPTG - ????: VT
Jimmm - 2nd Day IC
-
Regarding the claims themselves:
Like Space was Watcher, if Eevee is scum he almost definitely must be Tracker. He claimed prior to Me, Datswan, RR & e - all of whom are above him in the drafting order. As Tracker was not in the Barracks, there's no way scum could have known that it was a safe fake claim - thus, choosing to claim it as scum runs a high risk of being counter claimed. While that sets up a potential 1v1, it's just not worth it in that situation.
Further, Eevee knew that Qvist as PotI. While there are outlying scenario's where scum could know this by other fashion, none are highly likely. So Eevee, alignment independent, almost must be the Tracker.
(Please feel free to correct anything I'm overlooking, but I just don't see how he (or a teammate? - I suppose they could've swapped results?) reasonably could be anything else).
Faust, Datswan, RR and myself all have viable safe "fake" claims. That is, in my case and RR's case, we've both claimed to attempt to draft scum PR's that were higher in the order than us. For Faust, he's claimed to attempt to draft a dead townie's PR. One that conceivably could come from below him, but there's no real way to check. And lastly Swan has claimed to attempt to draft the Barracks - If he's sitting in Iguana's spot, and that is indeed what Iguana attempted to draft, scum would know that somebody had beaten them to it. Thus the claim itself is perfectly safe to make.
-
The below is simply me filling things in as it makes sense to me, such that I feel like I'm not looking for missing pieces of information. Feel free to use or disregard - it probably doesn't really have any actual bearing on anything important. I'm going to start my rereads following this.
1. ScummyMcScumster (4 or 8): Poisoner
2. WW (8 or 15): Failed Poisoner (Bid from last game, won as scum at Draft #4)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. Jimmmm (52 to 72): 2nd Day-IC
9. e (73): Barracks, JoaT (Unchoson Options: Godfather, Investigation Immune)
10. DatSwan (23): VT, Failed Barracks
11. Gkrieg (23): Redirector
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. IDPTG (3): ????
17. Archetype/Chairs (3): ????
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Galzria, you are right of course. I probably should have thought more who to track, I just didn't think I'd live if I could make a difference.
Fwiw, Galzria's breakdown of the claims seems fair (and towny) to me.
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Galzria, you are right of course. I probably should have thought more who to track, I just didn't think I'd live if I could make a difference.
Fwiw, Galzria's breakdown of the claims seems fair (and towny) to me.
I think he's trying to make himself look townier by implying a known townie made the same qeustionable decision he did, i.e. going for Poisoner.
-
On the other hand, if Galz is scum, then scum would have gotten slots 1,3,4 and would almost certainly not actually be a VT. Since we know iguana was VT, Galzria could not have been his substitute claim.
The more I think of this, the more I believe the decision need to be between DatSwan and RR.
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On the other hand, if Galz is scum, then scum would have gotten slots 1,3,4 and would almost certainly not actually be a VT. Since we know iguana was VT, Galzria could not have been his substitute claim.
The more I think of this, the more I believe the decision need to be between DatSwan and RR.
I think with the lack of roles discovered thus far in the game it isn't the most far fetched concept that skum came up with 1, 2, and 3...
Especially based on everyone's generally accepted logic of "Skum bid lost numbers". We have no one claiming 4 or 8 or 15, and Space claimed 16 bid getting 3.
Is it really unreasonable, with the knowledge we have now, to assume that they bid 4/8, 8/15, 16, and X?
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given the crew currently in space I could find a switch. Hour left I need to think for a minute.
Well, Town!Space & Scum!Swan is out the window.
See it’s things like this that make me think it neeeedddsss to be Galz. This is clearly a set up of Skum Galz!Space when Galz knows his guy is going down to further try and sell me tomorrow. Is no one really willing to consider this as a better lynch??
I mean if not whatever I will continue to think for like 10 minutes on my Space switxhand get back.
Swan trying to save Space.
@O
I see that now, I misremembered!
I think I want to lynch Swan. I didn't remember Galzria being there to help us lynch Space in the end.
So your logic here is that since some people were on Space (an already admitted unsubstantiated start up wagon) and I wasn't it makes it more likely that I am skum?
I would normally agree with you except I was kind of openly fighting about not going Space. Obviously, I was wrong on my read... but if I was skum... and E! already said he would hammer... why would I put up a fight? Not to be over reading the situation, but I feel like Skum!Anyone would do the exact opposite.
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Space Re Read. I focused on Voting History for the most part attempting to find patterns between wagons Space was on with people still in the game.
Day 1: (Space with Galz and II)
LaLight (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguaniguana
RoadRunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (9): RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver, O, Eevee
Personally, I find it difficult to deduce Day 1 actions at this point. More to do with me exactly, and my lack of experience in the game... but everything seems so... random. That being said, for purposes of this read, the relevant fact is that Space was voting for LL along with Iguana and Galz. However, LL did not get lynched.
Day2: (Space with Swan, Galz, O, Eevee, RR, and II)
LaLight (8): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
This was a cool day. Space was on LL, again with Galz, but also with myself, O, Eevee, II, and RR. This time LL went down. Obviously, he ended up being SK so yay there, but that is not a relevant factor for this read. What is relevant is that confirmed!Skum wanted LL to go down D1, it didn't work. Obviously, they chose not to kill LL at night. Only reason I can think of was to try and hang him the next day. Annnndd, surprisingly enough, both II and Space were on LL D2 when he hung, with Galz for a second time in a row, and me, O, Eevee and RR for the first time.
Day 3: (Space with Galz, Eevee, Teproc)
iguanaiguana (7): Eevee, gkrieg13, Galzria, Teproc, 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, Qvist
Teproc (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): chairs, RoadRunner7671, faust, O, DatSwan
Short day. 3/3 Space and Galz on the same vote. 2/3 Eevee and Galz on the same vote. I want to draw conclusions based on the day, but I just can't (even on the Galz/Eevee front). The day was just so short. Life happens. People sleep and work. For the purposes of being unbias, I am only using D3 exactly for numbers and drawing no conclusions on this read from it.
Day 4: (Space with Swan)
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Only notes I can make on D4 as relevant to this read are that me and Space are on the same person (Galz). I also assume that there is about a 0% chance that NO ONE was bussing Space. From that I gather either O, Teproc, Galz, or Eevee must be skum. O and Teproc are essentially town imo at this point, so Galz or Eevee.
I am attempting to keep this read specifically based on Votes, so I am not going to share my inferences at this point. This read has given me 2 primary candidates. I will re read them tonight under a different context and post either this evening or tomorrow morning on it.
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On the other hand, if Galz is scum, then scum would have gotten slots 1,3,4 and would almost certainly not actually be a VT. Since we know iguana was VT, Galzria could not have been his substitute claim.
The more I think of this, the more I believe the decision need to be between DatSwan and RR.
That's my guess for the team!
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vote: Faust
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side note - if it is Teproc and O I am seriously going to get a freekin trophy made or something
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SpaceyMcSpacester:
Space's first interaction with a still-alive player:
Gonna fill the below in from Space. They had no reason to make up the below, so I'll assume it's all true. Might be informative though. Thanks Space!
Right, I've got my vote-counting stuff set up for this game now :-)
Here's the peak (or peaks) of any wagon so far that's gotten up to at least 4 people.
#105: LaLight (4): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc, O, Jimmmmm
#138: LaLight (4): Teproc, O, Jimmmmm, Witherweaver
#200: gkrieg13 (6): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, faust, Teproc, LaLight, DatSwan
#232: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, Teproc, LaLight
#348: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Qvist
#362: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, DatSwan
#379: Eevee (4): faust, O, gkrieg13, Galzria
#380: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, Qvist, DatSwan
#388: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, Teproc
#440: Roadrunner7671 (6): Qvist, DatSwan, Galzria, faust, Archetype, Eevee
#470: Witherweaver (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg13, Eevee
Check out that wagon on RR at #440! If RR is scum, then the last scum -must- be bussing. And if RR is town, then both remaining scum were on him there. Note that 60 posts earlier, Iguana WAS on RR, but he bounced outta there as things were heating up. Noticeably however, if RR is scum, Iguana bounced but Datswan did not - which means Datswan would be committed to the bus as the heat got turned on. At the moment (based on my Space reread? lol), I'm inclined to believe that {RR/Datswan} are less likely to be paired.
Notable, given the time frame above:
I have iguana moving to DatSwan at #394, dropping RR from having three votes to have two.
The below quote is Space's first reads list that includes more than just their vote for gkrieg. Notable - Eevee is the only player not on there. Faust/RR/Galz/Swan all come up as Null-ish:
Towards the end of D1, Space throws some shade towards O and RR. In particular RR - based on the theory of LL being Mafia - something Space knew wasn't true. This sort of pairing is an easy way to call out a scum partner while painting it on a false premise:
Note also that RR and O are the two main late drifters from the LL wagon onto IDP: RR moved at #665, and O at #679.
RR has also been active online very recently, so if there's a partner to be found, that's a good place to look.
Just before end of day count from Space:
#739
LaLight (7): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (8): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., O, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver
I personally think it's more likely for scum to be split 2-2 on the wagons above, but I don't think it's super telling one way or another. There was no super strong reason for them to be stacked any which way.
On that note, early D2, Gkrieg requests the following. It's noteworthy in that either all the people voting WW D1 were "not-Mafia" aligned (not impossible), or Eevee is in fact Mafia:
Teproc is the one who was talking about empty posts and post counts and stuff right? That is the only reason I can think of why you kill WW. I don't think you want to kill people that had a wagon on them D1, because they have the most information. We now know 2 people who had wagons on them are town, which can tell us something about the game.
Space, could we get the list of everyone that voted for WW or IDPTG please?
People who voted for WW: LaLight, Galzria, gkrieg13, Teproc, Eevee, O.
People who voted for IDP: LaLight, Galzria, 2.71828....., Teproc, Witherweaver, DatSwan, Eevee, Roadrunner7671, faust, O.
The following two quotes come in back to back posts by Space - That puts Space, me and Datswan all on LL early D2. I don't think (from other's perspective) that makes a Space/Swan/Galz scum team all that likely. YMMV on how you feel about that though.
The below conversation with faust feels artificial:
So does the following conversation with Eevee:
The most incriminating piece of Space quoting I've found to date:
Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
The only players not voting are town, and Iguana. The other 3 Mafia are all voting. Teproc is on me. LL is on Gkrieg. I don't honestly believe that all 3 Mafia are pushing LL here knowing that LL isn't one of them. This is L-1. There's no reason for scum to be piled up here. LL is almost certainly the lynch of the day at this point, with or without them. I think faust is incredibly scummy here.
Space only had 1 post D3, and that was a late vote for Iguana. Disregarding that and moving on to D4, Space opens with their claim:
Sorry I wasn't able to get to this last night. I'm now dipping in briefly on my lunch break to try to catch up, and then I should be back properly late in the evening, like 23.30 my time (18.30 forum time).
I'm the Watcher. In case it wasn't obvious from earlier in the game, I bid 16, which was why I specifically asked LL to re-check his bid when he claimed #16. I came in at #3, so it was highly unlikely for him to be at #6 with the same bid. I assumed Galz was also thinking along those lines when he was so suspicious of LL, too.
My night targets were faust, Galz and then Galz again. Two people targeted Galz on the middle night of those three: gkrieg and Qvist. Nobody targeted faust N1 or Galz last night.
A few thoughts on this:
1) Watching me N2 makes perfect sense and lines up with what's happened since. On N2 scum killed the IC and watched me (remember, I had claimed D2). They were looking for PR's that might choose to target me that night (Doctors, Trackers, etc) - they watched me to PR hunt. They saw Gkrieg and Qvist, which explains them killing Gkrieg the following night. My running theory is still that they have a Roleblocker - N1 they blocked LL (no kill, no threat to be jailed), N2 they blocked someone, N3 they blocked Qvist (killing Gkrieg), N4 they blocked Eevee (rendering him moot).
2) Tracking faust N1 when you have little/no outside information is extremely partner-y.
More from D4. D4 is hard to track because I think scum is being careful to spread around their suspicion here. But below, Space joins in on my scum-team-calling:
I don't think Space chooses 3 townies to pair with Iguana here. And e wasn't scum. So I think it's absolutely fair to be looking at specifically either faust or Eevee (and possibly both).
I do want to take a moment to note that a LOT of Space's D4 (especially early on) is to find faust scummy, but very clearly and loudly point out over and over again that faust is probably scum, but not the poisoner. See below for two examples of such:
Faust -- claims VT at #1493, having bid 3, got position 15 and bid for Redirector. Seems really scummy for his resistance to the claiming exercise and his antagonising of Teproc et al. But I do think he's probably unlikely to be the poisoner, firstly because he's too obviously being scummy at this point, and secondly because I agree with the people saying that the smart thing for a scum team to do would be to hide the poisoner as another clained PR, especially since e started pushing quite a while ago to lynch amongst the VTs to catch the real poisoner after Iguana flipped goon.
Who reasonably gets draft #1?
faust
Or any other scum! You're forgetting that the scum team gets to coordinate on their bids. I did a pretty good job picking my very own number in the first version even though I had the scum QT to talk to, but reasonably any scum team with faust on it gets to have him pick out numbers for everyone if they want to do it that way. No need for him to have the super-exposed high bid personally. That's why I think him bidding an oddball is totally reasonable.
Smart human. Such good question asking. If a player was essentially killed two different ways, this would be indicated in flavor, ie... “Player X died in the night. He succumbed to poison and was found shot in the head.”
Okay, this is good! We wake up tomorrow and prove I'm not the poisoner, because I can 100% guarantee that Galz won't die of poison, and even if he's NKd tonight, the rest of you will be able to see he wasn't also poisoned.
This means it's ridiculous to push for my lynch today, because there are actual scums out there and the only people wanting to risk a non-scum player over an obvious scummy one like faust are the ones who're pushing for me because I'm kind of a traditional mislynch. Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering.
The last one above I even called out yesterday - "Don't lynch me, I'm not the poisoner! Lynch Faust instead - even if he's not the poisoner we still keep going!" I think it's likely that if Faust is scum, he is, in fact, NOT the poisoner. That said, I'll concede that there are arguments for Faust not being Space's partner based on how much Space was pushing him D4... I just feel more like Space was looking to push a partner in the hopes of buying towncred, but also didn't push too hard in the hopes that somebody else got lynched instead. Space certainly kept the doors open on other players the entire time - it's not like they solely tunneled on Faust. I dunno. Just... all feels partner-y. Faust will definitely be my next reread.
Getting closer to the end of the day now, Space makes their first fully "fleshed out" case on faust:
Now we're really getting close to the end of the day. It's clear that faust isn't going to happen (Tep/O had no interest in going there), so Space spins to me - making note that they would go back to faust if needed:
It's worth noting that if you think that I'm scum - the end of day from Space should strongly suggest that I'm NOT the Poisoner. Space continues to look for an out, and Teproc states at one point that I'm the only other person he's really willing to consider outside of Space. Scum!Watcher!Space does not go out of their way to live at the expense of Scum!Poisoner!Galz:
O and Teproc: would you at least reconsider on Galz, given that I presented actual evidence there? Or Datswan if Galz's old evidence there hald more weight for you instead?
e: would you be willing to move that way, given that you agree I'm not a good lynch today? Though I think your current vote on faust is also well-placed.
PPE: I would lynch Galz... well, I think all the non-hammering means I prefer you (Space) over him at this point.
Vote: Galz is way more sensible, people!
And... that's it for Space.
From Space alone, I'm leaning towards, in order: Faust/Eevee/RR/Swan - and that will be the order in which I reread those 4, unless something from one prompts me to change it up.
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On the flip side of all that, while I don't think faust is the likely Poisoner, I feel like Eevee or RR are my leading candidates.
It's possible that e blocked Poisoner!RR, and thus town!Eevee saw no result.
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It's possible that e blocked Poisoner!RR, and thus town!Eevee saw no result.
That really doesn't line up with e's stated reads.
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It's possible that e blocked Poisoner!RR, and thus town!Eevee saw no result.
That really doesn't line up with e's stated reads.
Don't think it's likely - just possible.
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Doing my next reread now: But as I'm doing it, the thought that if Tep/O are scum I'm going to be very upset crossed my mind - not because they don't deserve to win if they are (they do) - but because I'm wasting my damn time doing this when there's a 0% chance I win here.
Also, while I'm doing this (and as it's my only day off over the course of a 10-day, 90 hour work span), DAMA.
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Also, while I'm here, since Faust referenced it and I recall it now from D1:
I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.
I'm like, 100% certain that WW was Draft #2 and attempted to take Poisoner.
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I'm all alone. :( Datswan is at work, Faust and Eevee are completely different time zones, RR never posts, and Tep/O won't come out and play!
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I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.
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I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.
Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?
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Break from my reread. This amused me D1, and it amuses me now. Oh the challenges of Mafia. The following two posts were literally made back-to-back, 7 seconds apart, following LL's claim. One of two things are true now (and were then, but we had less information then): WW is town and Eevee is town, or WW is town and Eevee is scum. They're both reading the same game though. They're both reading the same posts. And they both come to absolutely 100% different opinions on the exact same things. In a completely black and white universe, I think this would suggest Eevee is scum - but here, I just think that it is what it is. Two people reading things two completely different ways.
I think LL is town.
LL sure sounds like scum.
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Doing my next reread now: But as I'm doing it, the thought that if Tep/O are scum I'm going to be very upset crossed my mind - not because they don't deserve to win if they are (they do) - but because I'm wasting my damn time doing this when there's a 0% chance I win here.
Also, while I'm doing this (and as it's my only day off over the course of a 10-day, 90 hour work span), DAMA.
Still rereading. More DAMA than before.
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Fausty, the Snow Man:
A lot of his early stuff revolved around Redirector. I'm not sure how I feel about this... but maybe I just don't really have a feeling about the role itself. I mean, while it's only 2-shot, if feels strictly better than Doctor to me (as it can be Doctor <Target Living Player A> Redirect <Target Dead Player B>, but can also serve other functions <Target Scum Poisoner> Redirect <Target other Scum>)... Am I wrong? In the below, faust say's it's not a strong town role... but I think I disagree. If faust is scum, he knows where the Poisoner is, so it's conceivable he wants to know where a Redirector is too:
I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.
Why include that claim?
For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.
Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.
Ha. Arguing with the Town Redirector. Funny stuff:
I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.
Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.
Faust actually addresses most of what I've been on about above in the below quote... but... I dunno:
vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
What does this mean?
Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.
Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!
The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.
I guess I just hate self-aware posts. And I know I'm guilty of them sometimes too (does that make this sentance a self-aware post?) - but the way this is stated is both defensive and self-aware. Maybe it's my bias because of my feelings after rereading Space. Anyway, I suppose it's not super relevant. Still haven't seen much interaction from Faust outside of the Redirector and Poisoner stuff. What's missing so far (from a town!Faust read) is the usual questioning that he does. He prods everybody and everything when he's town. Here... he just seems to have opinions, no questions. Again, maybe confirmation bias. Gonna keep rereading.
Weak, Weak, Weak. It was then, it is now:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
Circling back, Faust, could you clarify your read of iguana for me D1? Because I'm just getting a constant feel for mixed signals:
Nullish?
Nullish?
Townish?
Scummish?
Best line of the game:
I would've thought more people would be here at 8:30 EST but what do I know?
You know nothing, John Locke.
Townie, unless it's coaching, and then it's scummy:
Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.
Townie:
Scummy (Not really - except I don't recall Town!Faust ever striking me as joke-y):
Townie:
RR Hmmm...
RR Hmmm...
RR Hmmm...
Datswan Hmmm...
Eevee Hmmm...
See? The below is absolutely what I feel like town!faust believes:
Sorry. I know I was a bit aggressive there, that's not a nice tone. You are right that I should not have responded that way. I apologize. I know part of it is just mild annoyance about past performance, but I will try harder to not let that bleed into this game.
As far as the WW case goes, I guess I don't see the scumminess there. I agree that questions are easier for scum than reads, but they are also a pro-town thing, and I thought WW's reaction to the Poisoner claim before was on the townie side.
Faust loves his questions when he's town. I get annoyed at him and scum read him often because he tends to ask many questions but not post reads. And when he finally does post "reads", it's simply to mark who should and should not be lynched on the day (based, I'm sure, on the questions - but he generally doesn't STATE that). This game, the questions are lacking, and he's seemed to want to justify all of his reads. It just feels... backwards.
Datswan Hmmm...
This interaction is SUPER weird:
I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
faust, tell them I'm town please :(
I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.
How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?
Are you trying to convince me to lynch you? :o
no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be
You're nullish. I have no particular reason to lynch you. Plus you're easy to read later on, so even among my null reads, you are low priority.
And... I'm finally into D2 (lol). There's so much here that I'm really not sure I can really draw conclusions based on content.
Things that stand out from D1:
Faust really pushes RR for a majority of D1. He leaves the wagon shortly after it heating up to 6 votes, and then rejoins once it's died down. Early on, Iguana was the first vote on RR and jumped off before it became a thing. Can anybody with experience tell me how Scum!Faust tends to treat his scummates? It's noticeable that he had almost 0 interaction with Space D1, as well as almost no interaction with Iguana (he glossed over the claim early on, and seemed to engage more in the talk regarding Redirector). If he's scum, and his pattern is to NOT engage with teammates (as would be evidenced by Iguana/Space), then I think the most likely scummate is Eevee based off D1 play. He interacted heavily with RR, and some with Datswan. He had limited interaction with me and less with Eevee.
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*To be continued*
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Break from my reread. This amused me D1, and it amuses me now. Oh the challenges of Mafia. The following two posts were literally made back-to-back, 7 seconds apart, following LL's claim. One of two things are true now (and were then, but we had less information then): WW is town and Eevee is town, or WW is town and Eevee is scum. They're both reading the same game though. They're both reading the same posts. And they both come to absolutely 100% different opinions on the exact same things. In a completely black and white universe, I think this would suggest Eevee is scum - but here, I just think that it is what it is. Two people reading things two completely different ways.
I think LL is town.
LL sure sounds like scum.
But I was right!
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Break from my reread. This amused me D1, and it amuses me now. Oh the challenges of Mafia. The following two posts were literally made back-to-back, 7 seconds apart, following LL's claim. One of two things are true now (and were then, but we had less information then): WW is town and Eevee is town, or WW is town and Eevee is scum. They're both reading the same game though. They're both reading the same posts. And they both come to absolutely 100% different opinions on the exact same things. In a completely black and white universe, I think this would suggest Eevee is scum - but here, I just think that it is what it is. Two people reading things two completely different ways.
I think LL is town.
LL sure sounds like scum.
But I was right!
Define right? I agreed with you, and kept my vote on him. And he WAS scum. But not the kind anybody had in mind when those posts were made. WW wasn't wrong, really. Neither were you. But that isn't really the point. The point was just that one player saying "X" can lead two different players to read them in polar opposites.
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Define right: Ww said LL was town, that was untrue. I said he sounds like scum, which he was.
Anyway, not the point I know. I just like to take my small victories, knowing I'm usually wrong. Drunk DAMA for like 10 minutes, I'll be asleep shortly. :)
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Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.
If I am town, then I bid on Redirector and failed to get it. Note that this does not mean I know for certain that it is in play, because there is another role in that same slot - Summon Mother. And that is the main reason I pushed for the claim, because I thought it would help out the SK.
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Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.
If I am town, then I bid on Redirector and failed to get it. Note that this does not mean I know for certain that it is in play, because there is another role in that same slot - Summon Mother. And that is the main reason I pushed for the claim, because I thought it would help out the SK.
SK hunting is a scum tell. Just ask our gracious host.
But in all seriousness, yes, your claim works fine if you're town. Everybody's claims do.
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You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?
Vote Count 4.Final
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.
Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.
At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.
But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:
How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?
Possible lynches:
Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.
Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.
Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.
The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?
Looked at another way:
Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.
The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).
What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:
Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.
On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.
I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.
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I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.
Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?
Which brings me back to this: You were on Swan before. Why Faust with no reason now?
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I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.
Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?
Which brings me back to this: You were on Swan before. Why Faust with no reason now?
I think O, Teproc, and Eevee are town. I know I'm town. That leaves you/Datswan,Faust. The more you post, the less likely I think you are to be scum, so that leaves Datswan and Faust. I voted for Faust because he feels more likely today that Datswan.
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I will note here that scum needs two town votes on town for a quickhammer. Just noting it.
RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?
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RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?
I looked at all of Faust besides D1 but I haven't reread Datswan.
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RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?
I looked at all of Faust besides D1 but I haven't reread Datswan.
This is lylo-ish so ideally you should really reread everyone, but barring that (long game, limieted time, I get it) at the very least you should reread everyone in your lynchpool.
Also, why is Eevee town ?
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The optimal plan is for me to start a reread at about 11:00 forum time and end by like 11:45.
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You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?
Vote Count 4.Final
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.
Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.
At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.
But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:
How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?
Possible lynches:
Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.
Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.
Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.
The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?
Looked at another way:
Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.
The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).
What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:
Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.
On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.
I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.
You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?
Vote Count 4.Final
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.
Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.
At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.
But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:
How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?
Possible lynches:
Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.
Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.
Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.
The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?
Looked at another way:
Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.
The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).
What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:
Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.
On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.
I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.
Other than the parts that call me skum, I actually think this is relevant information.
I AGREE that;
1) Me not hammering Space looks bad. I don't agree it is skummy. I had a read, the read is that Space was Town. If I was right and I hammered then we lose. E! expressed that he would do it if needed. If he didn't do it, then tomorrow we lynch Skum!E! (weird to type out), and after the no lynch he forced we are just back in the same spot. If he does do it, then it was his call and we take it from there, but given the first option I did not want to act quickly.
2) O and Teproc are Masons. Or at least I am not questioning it at this point.
3) That Space's actions make me look super skummy. However, Space was there at the end. If I were skum (or "important skum" as you put it) why would an experienced player such as Space take this line?
I DO NOT agree with;
1) Your logic behind the Space switch to me because if he does it there is no downside for a Skum Team. At the same point in time that E! switched to me putting 3 on me, Galz has 2 (me and Space) on him. If 2/3 (in your logic here) of Eevee, Faust, and RR are skum for this scenario, they could of taken either 2 off of me onto you, or 1 off of me and one off of Space onto you and put you at 4. This would have the situation read Galz (4), Space (4 or 5), Swan (1 or 2). If you are Town!Galz and I am Skum!Swan (knowing of course now that it was Skum!Space), wouldn't this clearly an equal or superior play for Skum based on your logic set forward? It creates a great no lynch scenario if Eevee is skum (i.e. 4 on Space instead of 5), if you are Town it puts an potentially equal amount of votes on you to Space, and it would also pull 1-2 votes off of Skum!Swan. Just saying, there are multiple theories. Just because that is the one you chose to focus on doesn't make it the most likely.
2) The ideal that Town!Swan = Town!Eevee because it dictated by the fact that we are assuredly dealing with a Town!Galz.
3) That I should be looking at you AND Eevee as Town. I submit that the actions would make one assume both of you are not Skum, but one of you easily still could be.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Now I need to re read to make sure everything parses... but the last few posts have made me realize that (and I get how skummy this freeking sounds, but it is absolutely true) - Every Townie alive has two primary objectives at this point in time:
1) Lynch Skum
2) Don't get lynched
(If we fail both of these tasks, then we are reliant upon accidently finding the poisoned ally and go to "must find the poisoner" situation tomorrow.)
I am not sold on the idea that this is not Skum!Galz. I am simply acknowledging that I do not believe I can currently succeed at both of the above points if I am tunneling you. Thought about this yesterday, and I didn't want to type it out because there was just no point. It makes me look skummy for backing off, it takes pressure of of you (who I still think could be Skum). So I have an idea:
Between you and I, there is one fact that must be true based on our 100% knowledge - There absolutely cannot be a Skum Team reamaining of Galz!Swan.
Since the majority of our reads seem to lead us to the conclusion against each other, either one of us is Skum, Skum is setting us up, or we are missing something.
To quote the words of our fallen E!, "I will team with skum to lynch skum".
If I remove the possibility that you, I, Teproc, or O are lynched today (only way to do it that makes sense in this context - whole idea is for me to not consider you, I cannot consider myself because if I die we lose and then it is irrelevant, and Teproc and O because Mason claim yadda yadda)... My lynch pool is narrowed at it's widest to RR, Faust, and Eevee. Now I am not saying that 2 among them must be skum, because I am still acting under the mentality that you could be the second (and if you wanna play skum hunter with me you should do the same as it relates to me). However, with these 3 remaining, these are the possibilities I am left with to consider:
Lynch Town!RR - If so, it would suggest Eevee is also Town (could be lying about RR Track I guess, but why would he? could of just of easily claimed Teproc or O in that situation trying to "verify" they were masons. This of course would of left RR on the table as a potential lynch candidate). Because of this, I would be left with you or Faust and to determine where I would go I would need to decide whether it is more likely RR was attempting to bus Faust or get him killed as Town - either making him the candidate for Skum or between you and Eevee.
Lynch Skum!RR - If so, I imagine he will flip Poisoner. It would leave the most likely remaining skum in my mind to be Eevee (no RR in any tracks, and then randomly claimed to think he was the skummiest last night. Assuming that the Poisoner is not allowed to let another skum mate poison for them - I believe that to be true - based on the whole "probably poisoner if skum" logic I guess I can see why, but still.. Eevee would be at the top. Then you simply by PoE because he has been hardcoring me and Faust all game.
Lynch Town!Faust - If so, it would mean that poison was blocked or Faust was poisoned. Also, based on claims, it would have me looking at you as the last remaining Skum.
Lynch Skum!Faust - If so, I imagine he will flip not the Poisoner based on the same logic everyone has mentioned. At this point I would kind of rule you out I guess? Leaving me to read back on Faust!Eevee and Faust!RR.
Lynch Town!Eevee - If so, it would mean poison was blocked or Eevee was poisoned. It would also mean RR is not Poisoner (which to me makes him Town). This leaves you and Faust and TBH I have to go back and re read on this situation more to decide where I would go there.
Lynch Skum!Eevee - If so, Eevee will either flip Tracker or Poisoner. If they flip Poisoner, based on bid claims and the likelihood of setting up that admittedly amazing play, I would be looking at you as the last remaining Skum. If they flip Tracker, I would be looking at RR as last remaining Skum based on same logic under the "Skum!RR" idea.
After doing this exercise I realized something interesting - if I reverse engineer you into the situation, I actually think I would prefer to lynch RR today instead of you. He makes just as much sense and also would reveal potentially far more information. Also, I currently believe he is the most likely place to find the Poisoner.
Not saying it removes you from the table. Just assuming the following:
Lynch Town!Galz - Doesn't tell us much I guess. You were voting Space to be true - so I guess since I think there was at least one bus on Space, that would mean Eevee next. You have been fighting me, but I can't argue that there are skummy ties I have unfortunately not prevented. You could be pro-playing with Faust, but you also could not be. And you have limited interactions with RR.
Lynch Skum!Galz - Tells us less. I think there is still a chance that you could be the Poisoner, but honestly upon doing this, I think it is more likely to be RR. Assuming you come up Goon... I assume there must of been at least one bus on Space so there is that, but it doesn't mean that there were not 2. You could be pro-playing with Faust, but I don't think he is poisoner so probably not.. so I guess Faust would be next. And you have limited interactions with RR so IDK.
Also, FWIW:
Lynch Town!Swan - Pretty much puts you on the block. All of this puts us back at square one as above.
Lynch Goon!Swan - Poisoner kind of has to be RR still. You don't make sense. Faust has never made sense. If I am Goon then Eevee is Tracker and therefore town. Again, square one.
Lynch Poisoner!Swan - So in the fairness of the exercise I will be honest. Obviously, this has an upside. You get essentially absolved, RR's strategy would not make sense if I am the Poisoner and he is a Goon. If I am Poisoner then Eevee must be Tracker and is therefore likely Town. Faust is the remaining target making the clear team Swan!Faust. This is of course dictated on the concept of me being exactly the Poisoner.
At the end of this I want to say something like, "if people still want to, I am down to still lynch Galz", but honestly, I do not think that is true right now.
For now at least, Vote: RR is where I want to be.
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Just because I'm a little confused, how could Eevee and me have different alignments? Can the scum poisoner also do the NK?
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Just because I'm a little confused, how could Eevee and me have different alignments? Can the scum poisoner also do the NK?
Yes
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Others
At night, one of the Others may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PRs from the draft.
Smoke Monster
You are the Smoke Monster! Your goal is to kill Jacob’s precious Candidates so that you are finally free to leave the island and extinguish the light… everywhere.
You win when all six Candidates have been eliminated and you are still alive. This is a difficult task, so you may take advantage of a number of special powers, or “loopholes.”
At night, you may perform the factional kill.
You are also an Even-Night Commuter and an Odd-Night Candidate Checker. On even nights, you may choose to commute. If you commute, you can take no other actions and all actions taken against you will fail.
On odd nights, you may choose another player to check and see if this player is a candidate. This is a unique action--it’s called a “check” rather than an investigation--and cannot fail or be mis-directed in any way, by any other power or status (including Investigation Immunity and Godfather).
Commuting and checking always succeed: they happen outside normal power resolution.
You may kill and check in the same night. You may not commute and kill in the same night.
You may also gain a PR from the draft.
It is possible for you to be one of the Candidates. If you are a Candidate, you do not have to kill yourself--you only have to eliminate the five other Candidates. You will have access to the Candidate QT, and can become the Leader of the Candidates. (Note: This will obsolete your Odd-Night Candidate Check power, since you will already know all the Candidates.)
For balance purposes, if you are a Candidate, and you eliminate the five other Candidates for the win, you must survive one additional game phase (day or night) after the last Candidate’s death.
This same condition applies if you choose the Recruit Mother PR and Mother is chosen as one of the Candidates. (You do not need to kill Mother, but you do need to survive an additional game phase after the other five are eliminated. See the Mother Role PM for additional info.)
Candidates (Any alignment)
Candidates are picked at random, independent of role or alignment, after all other phases of the draft have ended. The Serial Killer could even be a Candidate.
Candidates have a QT with day chat, but no night chat. During the day, they may vote amongst themselves for a Leader. Candidates cast their votes in private, in their own QTs, and may vote for themselves. The Leader—the Candidate who receives the most votes (or reaches 2 votes first in case of a tie)—may perform an investigative action that night; the Leader can investigate any player to learn whether this player is the Smoke Monster.
The Leader will receive the result: “Smoke Monster” if the target is the Smoke Monster, “Not Smoke Monster,” if not, or “No Result” if the action is thwarted.
The next day, the Candidates may select a different Leader, or the same one.
If the Smoke Monster dies, the Candidate QT locks permanently.
QTs
A note about QTs: It is illegal to quote directly from any QT into the main thread or another QT, other than a personal QT.
If a faction (other than town) has access to the Candidates QT--because one of its members is a Candidate--then the entire faction will receive access to the QT, though only the member who is a Candidate can post in it. If Others-aligned Player X is a Candidate, a link to the Candidate QT will appear in the Others QT.
Whenever a Candidate dies, a new QT for the Candidates will be sent out to all people entitled to access it. If all Others-aligned Candidates have been eliminated, then the new Candidates QT link would not be posted in the Others QT. The Others would lose access to the Candidates QT, but the surviving Candidates would not know that there were no more Others in their ranks.
Role Slots
The Hydra (Station One)
Jailkeeper
Godfather
The Arrow (Station Two)
Strongman (Others and SM only)
Gunsmith
The Swan (Station Three)
Masons (Town only)
Bomb
The Flame (Station Four)
Role Cop
1-Shot Day Vigilante
The Pearl (Station Five)
Watcher
Investigation Immune
The Orchid (Station Six)
2-Shot Redirector
Summon “Mother” (SM only)
The Staff (Station Seven)
Doctor
1-Shot Kill Proof
The Looking Glass (Station Eight)
Roleblocker
Bodyguard
The Tempest (Station Nine)
Poisoner
Ninja (Others and SM only)
The Lamp Post (Station Ten)
Double Shot Candidate Cop
Tracker
The Statue of Tawret
Protector of the Island
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
The Bamboo Forest
Last Recruit
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town only)
The Cabin
1-Shot Disabler
Night 3 Forensic Scientist
The Dharma Initiative Barracks
Random
Random
Random
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Others
At night, one of the Others may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PRs from the draft.
Sorry, phone quote fail.
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Right on. I'm doing my reread right now, if I include the quotes from me yesterday indicating that I thought there were 2 scum, would that make me townier?
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Faust, do you prefer being town or scum?
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Time to stop slackin and start crack a lackin
Well, I was going to agree with the Poisoner claiming, but it seems I'm late to the party. :(
First thing I saw. Reads sort of ingenuine to me.
If iguana is scum, then there is no guarantee that he is actually the Poisoner. It could be a teammate. Though that would require very quick thinking there on parts of both scum!iguana and his partner.
Hmmmm
vote: Faust
Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.
No clue how we all missed this claim.
Also, Datswam hopped on gkrieg then hopped off even though he definitely didn’t have to. Towny
Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.
Still a tad scummy.
Galz joins a D1 Eevee wagon at a scummy time.
I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
This makes Datswan a little scummier in my mind.
Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.
Right after this post I get in a little argument with Galz and Datswan. I can’t deduce anything from it, but I think it’s worth checking out. Particularly if you’re not RR, Galz or Datswan.
RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee
That would be L-2. unvote for now. Got time. Wanna think.
Galz pulls out. I think this is scummy, because he knows I won’t get night killed so he can look towny later in my eyes when I’m still alive later. It’s the long con.
Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1
Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.
But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.
PPE
Vote: DatSwan I think.
Seems partner-y from Faust to Datswan.
I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.
I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!
Doesn’t seem like scum Faust.
That's D1 for me. Overall, not a ton to look at.
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Prod O
Prod: Faust
Prod: Eevee
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VLAish this weekend
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VLAish this weekend
Whoops
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Define right: Ww said LL was town, that was untrue. I said he sounds like scum, which he was.
Anyway, not the point I know. I just like to take my small victories, knowing I'm usually wrong. Drunk DAMA for like 10 minutes, I'll be asleep shortly. :)
Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.
If I am town, then I bid on Redirector and failed to get it. Note that this does not mean I know for certain that it is in play, because there is another role in that same slot - Summon Mother. And that is the main reason I pushed for the claim, because I thought it would help out the SK.
Both less than 48 hours ago.
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Whoops v2, I thought it was 24 hours.
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To be prodded by RR... the irony!
As I said, I'm in the process of moving into a new place. We've been painting rooms this weekend, so my availability was less than ideal. I should have some more time the next couple of days.
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Alright, time for my Space reread.
I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?
This is just a point of reference to show that Space is willing to bus their partners.
Also, I'm kind of VLA again for the next 48 hours on a business trip to Germany. Sadly can't so in to investigate faust in person this time round :-( Last time I was about to fly to Germany I had gkrieg with me on the coach to Heathrow (which is where I am now) and LaLight was waiting for us in Berlin!
*waves to all you guys in the interwebs* Miss you all!
Am I reading too much into this or is Space actually breadcrumbing their N1 target here?
You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
Hey, picking a fellow VLA person to park a vote on might not be your best plan.
In other news, I'm back in the UK now! Let's see how far I get with a re-read before being too sleepy..
This interaction is mildly scummy.
(mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day)
What is this about? RR is still one of the major wagons, no?
He's kind of a distant third: he has three votes, whereas gkrieg and WW both have five.
And since you asked with such incredulity, I went and counted the expressions of disinterest or towny-vibes towards RR:
e @ #426.
Teproc @ #430
WW @ #437 (says he doesn't want to lynch RR, anyway)
Eevee @ #461 says some stuff feels townie and he's not voting there any more.
Galz @ #465 says he's less inclined towards an RR lynch now.
Then there's the fact that e also reiterates his "RR is town" stance twice @ #447. Maybe that's inflating the feeling of a move away from RR a little, but it's still a considerable minority willing not to push him right now, hence my assumption that he's gained a D1 pass.
This would link Space to RR, and I find it odd that Space would make this effort for town!RR. It makes sense with Poisoner!RR.
Reads in living people of unlcear alignment, and scumpartner for reference:
Galzria (31 posts): Surprisingly little early-game content (like before #400). Spends a lot of time defending gkrieg. Null. Null.
Datswan (25 posts): Newbie to me at least. Not really said as much as the post count ought to indicate. Seems a bit hesitant/flakey on votes, but that might be a newbie thing. Nullish.
RoadRunner (35 posts): Admits to artificially inflating his post count :-P Has been VLA. Seems to be flaily town for D1. I always think he's not the most pro-town person around, and then he gets lynched and turns out to have been town after all. So town for now to avoid that mess for the time being.
faust (53 posts): He's active in scum-hunting and making people stay accountable, which is good. I dislike the aggressive bit a lot, but I'm not sure it's indicative of alignment. The fact he's not trying to kill off me or gkrieg (or other logic-y people?) is encouraging at least.
Iguanaiguana (28 posts): I still find the lack of early accountability worrying for the poisoner thing. That can be solved when we see how things look in D3, though, so he's a pretty poor vote choice for today.
The omission of Eevee is townie for him. The town read on RR fits with Space's apparent agenda to protect him. The others seem all null... not a lot of info there.
Note also that RR and O are the two main late drifters from the LL wagon onto IDP: RR moved at #665, and O at #679.
RR has also been active online very recently, so if there's a partner to be found, that's a good place to look.
Here Space is firing against RR, but only by creating a partner theory with a nonmafia, so it's really a moot point.
Days 3 and 4 lack content, not surprisingly.
Regarding the claim. Space claims to have targeted me and Galzria. They are in a tight spot there and probably cannot really lie about their targets. So unless you think Space targeted their scumpartners all the time, that should make me/Galz clearly not the scumteam. Galrzia being a target could go either way.
Some analysis:
Eevee -- Claims tracker at #1353. Neatly takes e out of today's lynch pool by saying he didn't target N1, so can't be poisoner. Outs Qvist as protector of the island.
Galz -- Claims VT at #1377, having bid on poisoner. Says he bid #42, which I missed on first reading. Nice logicing there if it's true. Could just be that he has more info via the scum QT during bidding, though.
Faust -- claims VT at #1493, having bid 3, got position 15 and bid for Redirector. Seems really scummy for his resistance to the claiming exercise and his antagonising of Teproc et al. But I do think he's probably unlikely to be the poisoner, firstly because he's too obviously being scummy at this point, and secondly because I agree with the people saying that the smart thing for a scum team to do would be to hide the poisoner as another clained PR, especially since e started pushing quite a while ago to lynch amongst the VTs to catch the real poisoner after Iguana flipped goon.
RR -- claims VT who bid on Watcher at #1619. Claims to have bid 35 and got position 7. He's almost as clammed-up as I am, but I don't get the impression that lack of time is what's holding him back. I think him starting to look scummy at this point is sort of how he plays, though -- his mislynch was a bit of a black mark against me in M100.
DatSwan -- Claims VT at #1630. Says he bid 23 and got position 10. While I follow Galz's reasoning on him being the poisoner based on numbers, I think it's kind of flawed since I updated my reasoning for numbers based on the knowledge that everyone now knows how the bids went down the first time and the assumption that everyone would be trying to second-guess the new distribution.
Slight scum on Galzria, strong scum on me, kind of defends RR and DatSwan. I think they would scumread one partner, so that makes Galzria scummy. On the other hand, one of RR/DatSwan is probably the Poisoner.
There is a lot of time spent tunneling me. Yawn.
Then suddenly flips to Galzria, with "willingness to move back". Could easily be a bus.
Eevee is more scummy than you by miles and miles. Teproc and O won't vote there though, and they're required to lynch scum here (granting them town status).
Argh.. I wanted so much for you to be wrong on the mason block needing to be involved, but I guess you're mostly right. Though technically we only need one of them to agree, and then all of the actual-town people. It's very convenient for you to find a high-likelihood scummy player unvotable, though :-(
This kind of reads like a discussion between frustrated scum partners.
Okay, and that is it. I think based on this, we have RR>Galzria>DatSwan>Eevee as partners.
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Fausty, the Snow Man:
A lot of his early stuff revolved around Redirector. I'm not sure how I feel about this... but maybe I just don't really have a feeling about the role itself. I mean, while it's only 2-shot, if feels strictly better than Doctor to me (as it can be Doctor <Target Living Player A> Redirect <Target Dead Player B>, but can also serve other functions <Target Scum Poisoner> Redirect <Target other Scum>)... Am I wrong?
Well it also has the potantial of massively messing up town PRs, in particular investigative roles.
What's missing so far (from a town!Faust read) is the usual questioning that he does. He prods everybody and everything when he's town. Here... he just seems to have opinions, no questions. Again, maybe confirmation bias. Gonna keep rereading.
Maybe part of that is that I have at no point in this game felt as involved in this game as I would like, mostly due to RL stuff happening.
Weak, Weak, Weak. It was then, it is now:
Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?
He used too many exclamation marks.
It was a joke. As I remember I actually posted actual reason before that.
Faust loves his questions when he's town. I get annoyed at him and scum read him often because he tends to ask many questions but not post reads. And when he finally does post "reads", it's simply to mark who should and should not be lynched on the day (based, I'm sure, on the questions - but he generally doesn't STATE that). This game, the questions are lacking, and he's seemed to want to justify all of his reads. It just feels... backwards.
I mean partially yes, partially my lack of involvement as stated before, but also the last game you've seen with town!faust was the RMM where I was IC, and I tried to play that differently than normal town, asking more questions and providing fewer reads, so that might influence your impression here.
Faust really pushes RR for a majority of D1. He leaves the wagon shortly after it heating up to 6 votes, and then rejoins once it's died down. Early on, Iguana was the first vote on RR and jumped off before it became a thing. Can anybody with experience tell me how Scum!Faust tends to treat his scummates?
I mean I can, not sure you want to take my word for it. But my patterns is defnitely to engage with my teammates, not ignore them. Unless I think town!me would really ignore them. Then I try to.
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Getting back here in a few hours tops.
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Just a bookkeeping note, I think you are way underselling my interestest to Swan-lynch yesterday, I don't know how clear I made it but I would say I was closer to voting him than I was voting you. This just strengthens your point about scumminess of Swan - which I agree with.
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Just a bookkeeping note, I think you are way underselling my interestest to Swan-lynch yesterday, I don't know how clear I made it but I would say I was closer to voting him than I was voting you. This just strengthens your point about scumminess of Swan - which I agree with.
That may in fact be true, but it is not at all supported by any statements you made towards the end of the day.
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FWIW, I don't think prioritizing the Poisoner over not Poisoner is all that relevant here. Yeah, it'd be nice to lynch the Poisoner, but we should lynch the person most likely to be scum overall. There's too much WIFOM involved in guessing who the Poisoner is I think.
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Hey, if people wouldn't be horribly opposed, I wouldn't be adverse to extending today's deadline out by 24 additional hours (To Friday at 4:00pm forum time). I'll be able to get some more work in on this tonight after work, but I'll be at work tomorrow and Thursday from 9:30am - 8:00pm, and while Wednesday is only a half day for me, I doubt I'll be able to finish up everything in that time. Friday I'm off so I can engage more in the morning and the day leading up to the deadline. If it's on Thursday everything will be really tight for me.
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Extending is fine with me, but I think that's 90% a mod call.
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Since there was no prevous day-long VLA announcement, in order to extend the day by 24 hours at this point, we would need to turn the wheel underneath the Orchid station. This is potentially, ahem, dangerous... and so, all living Dharma recruits would need to indicate, privately, in their QTs that they support this course of action. Unless I receive QT confirmation from all living players that they wish to extend this day by 24 hours, we will follow normal protocols. Namaste.
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Not sure where my vote is, but I want on on Datswan. Vote: Datswan
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@ Faust who are your preferred lynch candidates today?
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@ RR Why Datswan, specifically?
I'm not convinced you've even read past the four pages of today + random quotes from D1/D2.
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Vote Count 4.7
faust (1): 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
@Datswan What were the circumstances at this point in VC that made you think Space was town. More specifically, who was scum?
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Attention, Swan station inhabitants: the pallet drop will be delayed this week. Feel free to help yourself to an extra tub of peanut butter from the pantry.Namaste.
Vote Count 5.1
DatSwan (1): RoadRunner7671
Not Voting (6): Galzria, faust, DatSwan, O, Eevee, Teproc
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on October 19th at 4 PM.
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I'm not convinced you've even read past the four pages of today + random quotes from D1/D2.
I read it I just didn't exactly...reread it.
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I'm not convinced you've even read past the four pages of today + random quotes from D1/D2.
I read it I just didn't exactly...reread it.
If you read it yesterday, you would have known we had 2 scum alive today.
It's a lot easier to be lazy when you have other people in a QT able to point things out and summarize. I would know...
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I'm not convinced you've even read past the four pages of today + random quotes from D1/D2.
I read it I just didn't exactly...reread it.
If you read it yesterday, you would have known we had 2 scum alive today.
It's a lot easier to be lazy when you have other people in a QT able to point things out and summarize. I would know...
Hm something here doesn't add up.
Maybe I'm just not sure I believe you when you said you miscounted the scum.
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Robz - I voted RR in post #2140. Vote count should read:
Swan at 1 (RR)
RR at 1 (Swan)
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If you have time to gripe about VC's you have time to answer the question.
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Same question also applies to @Faust.
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If you have time to gripe about VC's you have time to answer the question.
VC's = ?
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nvm I am dumb, vote count. got it. response coming.
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Vote Count 5.2
DatSwan (1): RoadRunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): Galzria, faust, O, Eevee, Teproc
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on October 19th at 4 PM.
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2. Galzria
4. 2.71828.....
9. Datswan
13. faust
This is the pool for me, based on PoE. Three of them are mafia, one of them is not. So our chances are pretty good.
So here I thought there were three scum, which there were.
If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
I’m pretty sure I thought there were 2 scum here.
Wait that’s it. So maybe I did think there were 3 scum. I know I thought there was 1 scum left right after we lynched space though, but I guess there’s no way for me to prove that.
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Vote Count 4.7
faust (1): 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
@Datswan What were the circumstances at this point in VC that made you think Space was town. More specifically, who was scum?
First things first - I would like to mention that while this is only the second time I have played a Mafia game on this forum, when I used to play elsewhere (a looooong time ago) I was notoriously targeted for making snap decisiouns at the end of the day. I have since been extremely cautious, maybe overly cautious as it would seem, in these scenarios. So...
FIRST - I clearly had clearly stated my thoughts on Skum!Galz at this point in the game. Simply based on that, I assumed either;
1) Galz is bussing
2) Galz is pushing a town lynch
- If Galz is bussing then most likely there is only one Skum on Space at this point (I would imagine the other would dial off when they are put at L-1). This is also a huge reason into my re-reading of Galz, as obviously I would expect him to also dial off as Skum some of the time in this situation (the exception of course being if he was poisoner).
- If Galz is pushing a Town Lynch, as the game did not end on the spot, either Space was the poisoned player or the other skum is already on Space.
- The third thing, and this worked into a lot of my reasoning, was that Faust did not post during this whole bit. This leads me to believe that he was offline. As I was assuming him as a very potential skum candidate at that time, I could not rule out that there was one Skum on Space and the other was just no there to hammer.
SECONDLY - No offense intended, but at this point in the game, I was no where near 100% convinced that you and Teproc were not fake-claiming.
THIRD -
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whoops, tab post on accident. rest is coming...
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Vote Count 4.7
faust (1): 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
@Datswan What were the circumstances at this point in VC that made you think Space was town. More specifically, who was scum?
First things first - I would like to mention that while this is only the second time I have played a Mafia game on this forum, when I used to play elsewhere (a looooong time ago) I was notoriously targeted for making snap decisiouns at the end of the day. I have since been extremely cautious, maybe overly cautious as it would seem, in these scenarios. So...
FIRST - I clearly had clearly stated my thoughts on Skum!Galz at this point in the game. Simply based on that, I assumed either;
1) Galz is bussing
2) Galz is pushing a town lynch
- If Galz is bussing then most likely there is only one Skum on Space at this point (I would imagine the other would dial off when they are put at L-1). This is also a huge reason into my re-reading of Galz, as obviously I would expect him to also dial off as Skum some of the time in this situation (the exception of course being if he was poisoner).
- If Galz is pushing a Town Lynch, as the game did not end on the spot, either Space was the poisoned player or the other skum is already on Space.
- The third thing, and this worked into a lot of my reasoning, was that Faust did not post during this whole bit. This leads me to believe that he was offline. As I was assuming him as a very potential skum candidate at that time, I could not rule out that there was one Skum on Space and the other was just no there to hammer.
SECONDLY - No offense intended, but at this point in the game, I was no where near 100% convinced that you and Teproc were not fake-claiming.
THIRD -
....
THIRD- At this point in time, while it was far fetched, Eevee/Qivst was a potential option, and if they wanted to get rid of one person it would be the one that could screw up their claims.
FOURTH - As of this point in time... looking back at it not at the last minute and all.. I do see that the hammer was probably pretty likely given the situation, and I do understand why that makes me look bad. I did not calculate that worth to it's full potential in the middle of everything.
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@ Faust who are your preferred lynch candidates today?
[/quote
I've posted where I'm at right now: RR>Galzria>DatSwan>Eevee, but this is pending more rereads.
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Same question also applies to @Faust.
I think you mean this question:
Vote Count 4.7
faust (1): 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends on October 10 at 4:00 PM.
@Datswan What were the circumstances at this point in VC that made you think Space was town. More specifically, who was scum?
I did not think Space was town. I thought Space was not a Poisoner, and I felt pretty good about lynching DatSwan. Also I wasn't really around after that... not sure I would have switched to Space otherwise other than to insure a lynch.
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FWIW, I don't think prioritizing the Poisoner over not Poisoner is all that relevant here. Yeah, it'd be nice to lynch the Poisoner, but we should lynch the person most likely to be scum overall. There's too much WIFOM involved in guessing who the Poisoner is I think.
There's WIFOM involved in guessing who scum is. I don't specifically hunt for the Poisoner, but it is pretty safe to assume that scum would have acted differently towards a Poisoner partner than towards their other partner, and I cannot neglect this in a reread.
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Alright, Galzria reread. This will probably be massive. Apologies in advance.
Cause I like being a part of things.
Because it makes you look Towny?
Not my job to look townie
I find this odd. Like, yes of course it is your job to look townie. I think denying that is more likely a scum thing to do, but maybe we just disagree on game theory again.
There is arguing for using Poisoner early. Well, not directly, but you know, someone laying the groundwork for someone else to be able to claim having shot. That definitely helps scum.
Vote: DatSwan
Because you gave so very much reason yourself. Obviously he should've deduced your great and phenomenal reasoning from such a detailed post.
Defending DatSwan againt RR. Interesting. Makes DatSwan a more likely partner than RR I think. Then continues to vote RR.
RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee
That would be L-2. unvote for now. Got time. Wanna think.
Scummy.
The Gkrieg wagon is bad and you should feel bad.
This isn't convincing from you
Neither is any case on Gkrieg. He used too many exclamations? Oh no!
Just imagine for a second that gkreig is mafia and we successfully lynch him because he used too many explanation points.
Just imagine for a second that Gkrieg is town and we unfortunately mislynch him because he used too many exclamation points.
This goes on for a couple posts. It's gross misrepresentation.
Eh, sure, why not?
vote: idptg
Lynch order preference:
Eevee -> WW-> IDPTG -> 2.7 -> Most everybody else.
Notably, this is everyone Galzria voted for up to this point minus RR. Why no RR? Also everyone on here is town.
I'm here. Seems IDPTG is a useless place to have my vote. Back to vote: WW.
Will do: Eevee, WW, LL, Qvist, IDPTG, e, RR
Don't see myself anywhere else today.
Why did you vote LaLight over RR?
Because we've recently lynched scum RR in previous games, and we often mislynch town RR in previous games. RR's blown up response is much more in line with the town games than his scum game.
Galzria chooses to put LaLight to L-2 over RR.
Most of Galzria's D2 focuses on LaLight, which is understandable as either alignment given his bid knowledge.
Then, Galzria argues against the Poisoner shooting N1 = scum. I don't think that is a move to protect iguana - after all, scum would know at that point that they Poisoned the IC, which would be a hard pill to swallow. So town points there.
Oh, the claim. Scum perspective for a second here. If Glazria is mafia, then they know something is up with LaLight, right? I mean they probably blocked him, and there's no NK. Galzria may be certain enough that LaLight is the SK that he decided the town points from his claim are worth having because the SK won't get to shoot again anyway.
Jimmm, who did you poison N2?
That mess-up might just be a townslip. I suppose Galzria could have mixed up iguana and Jimmmmm, but it is less likely. I don't think it was intentional.
Not much D3.
I don't think the LyLo thing D4 is alignment-indicative.
Also, I want to take a moment to applaud the Mafia team here. That play with iguana is 100% pre-meditated N0. No other way that runs so smoothly right out of the gates D1. Even if we had massclaimed we would have nothing to go on now except "The real Poisoner is probably a claimed Btw (And even that isn't a guarantee). So, well executed scum.
Townie.
Then of course, claiming to have gone for Poisoner at 4 is rather scummy in my eyes.
D4 lynch priorities are Swan > RR > faust. Having me last (out of this subset) is townie again.
The question is, while we remain in LyLo until the Poisoner is lynched, the longer we survive the narrower the field gets. Is it worth the gamble to try and snag the Poisoner now, or do we go for our best guess at scum?
If it's the former, I'm voting RR/Swan (Probably Swan). If it's the latter I'm voting e.
So no Space in here. That is definitely somewhat scummy. Here RR seems more likely as a partner compared to Swan.
That post struck me as townie at the time, still does now.
And I've made my lynch choices clear: Swan, e, and Space. I've put forth my best thoughts regarding each (except Space, who I just think took scum Watcher like last game). If the other town want to get on board with them, great. I'll be happy to switch. Still won't matter with you two voting me.
This is the first time Space appears in the reads. Why not originally?
unvote. You're not scum. My voting you doesn't actually help anyone other than me vent frustration. Instead, vote: Swan. I'll live, die or lose by my conviction.
That makes Swan less likely Galzria's partner, unless Galzria is actually the Poisoner, which I find rather unlikely.
I considered Gunsmith from draft 4. But I was fairly confident I would get it based on nobody going for it last game. Ultimately I thought attempting to deny scum Poisoner was more valuable. I still feel this way, given the strength of the role for scum.
I really don't buy this.
vote: e
Galzria jumps on a scumslip argument from Space.
And that is the main things. It's up and down and sometimes I really feel like Galzria is scum, then he does something townie. I don't know at this point, but I think overall I'd move him down on my list of scummy players.
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"
And that is the main things. It's up and down and sometimes I really feel like Galzria is scum, then he does something townie. I don't know at this point, but I think overall I'd move him down on my list of scummy players."
This describes my rollercoaster with reading Galzria as well in this game. Faust, who do you want to lynch, do you know yet?
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Faust, who do you want to lynch, do you know yet?
No.
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And a little RR reread for relaxation.
RR and DatSwan have a weird interaction. I do think it is unlikely that both are scum.
To be fair - yes, you don't need to post a reason when you vote. I had one for Eevee but didn't post it. That's not scummy. It's the timing and the way you handled it. You intentionally did NOT vote immediately after being called out by Teproc, but did so in your first post upon returning. Like you didn't want to be obvious about it but realized he had called out an accurate scum meta for you.
Oh my gosh stoppppppppp I'm not scum
This on the other hand can easily pass as partner interaction.
This post, and the following, are super scummy. RR is putting a lot of thought into what other people think of him while at the same time trying to appear nonchalant about it. I have seen similar behaviour from scum!RR before.
Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.
Vote: gkrieg
Woah there's a third option
Deflecting on another town instead of doing the self-preservation thing is very much what I expect from scum!RR.
RoadRunner (35 posts): Seems to be flaily town for D1.
I'm not flailing!
Scummy Space interaction.
I don't think he's scum and I don't really like self preservation.
And here it happens again. Scum!RR loves stalling moves.
D2 and D3 are nothings.
I'm fine with the order but I didn't realize I was towny enough to go last.
Scummy.
I'm inclined to believe both Space and Eevee.
RR supports Space. Also this is the first meaningful interaction with Eevee.
If Teproc and O are scum then scum wins and that'll be that IMO.
About the attitude I expect from town!RR.
We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
Any reads? Which claims do you believe and which not?
I believe you, Space and Qvist, and it's not all based on what's happened in the thread.
RR alludes to his failed Watcher bid. Which is mildly town since scum would not have a failed Watcher bid, but it's pretty sure that they staked out their fakeclaims already here.
I'm definitely feeling swan over galz here, but I think
Faust is my favorite
Right now I am feeling pretty confident in a faust/space/datswan remaining scum team
If you believe my claim (and you must since you think I'm town) why do you think Space is scum?
Scummy.
Wait there are 2 scum left?
Yes. The Poisoner and one other scum.
For all of D4 I thought there were 2 scum left wtf
This is demonstrably false.
I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.
Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?
Which brings me back to this: You were on Swan before. Why Faust with no reason now?
I think O, Teproc, and Eevee are town. I know I'm town. That leaves you/Datswan,Faust. The more you post, the less likely I think you are to be scum, so that leaves Datswan and Faust. I voted for Faust because he feels more likely today that Datswan.
Not surprising.
Okay. So this is all quite scummy. I would say that an RR/DatSwan team seems that least likely of RR pairings. Then there is Eevee's result, which would make RR not the Poisoner... I think then that an RR/Eevee team is more likely than RR/Galzria, since I don't know where to put the Poisoner within RR/Galzria.
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Eevee & DatSwan up tomorrow.
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Eh, sure, why not?
vote: idptg
Lynch order preference:
Eevee -> WW-> IDPTG -> 2.7 -> Most everybody else.
...Also everyone on here is town.
Good to know.
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No way
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Eh, sure, why not?
vote: idptg
Lynch order preference:
Eevee -> WW-> IDPTG -> 2.7 -> Most everybody else.
...Also everyone on here is town.
Good to know.
That's what I get from exhausted rereading...
I guess now I have to reevaluate your Eevee read. *sigh*
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Note: Not all player have indicated a desire to extend the deadline. Namaste.
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Fausty the Snowman, continued!:
Starting off on D2 here, Faust's first post is fairly townie:
It is unlikely, although not impossible, for LL to be telling the truth about his bid.
At the same time, while unlikely, I don't see why he would lie either.
This is as true now as it was yesterday.
I agree with you, but could you spell it out for me?
My bid and draft leaves an extremely limited number of possible ways to end up at "bid 16, draft 6", most of which are incredibly unlikely at best.
How unlikely?
Why? Because in a world where faust is scum, he knows that I'm town (or at least, not Mafia). It also means that he knows all the scum bids - as well as mine (I claimed my bid of 42 in the Candidates thread D1). Given that scum bid: 4/8 (and got Draft #1), 16 (and got Draft #3), and that they knew LL was probably Draft #6 (no counter claim) but did NOT bid 16 as claimed, then scum knew that for me to say LL's claim was unlikely that my bid of 42 most likely had me as Draft #4 or Draft #5. Given that knowledge (and you can believe with Space on the scum team that WAS known to scum), I don't see why scum!faust engages in a "How unlikely" conversation here.
But shortly after, faust returns with this:
I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
Why was Redirector specified to be Town and Watcher not? I've already floated the theory that you're claiming in Iguana's spot right now based on him going for redirector and failing - scum you would know that there's a chance that there's a town redirector in the game, but also that the Watcher is scum. It's weird that you differentiated here. It's obvious we're talking about the missing SK kill here, not some generic unknown, so Redirector (Mafia or Town), or Watcher (Mafia or Town) are both reasons for an SK to possibly not shoot (although both are farfetched reasons not to shoot D1). Also, why not mention Tracker? Scum you would know Redirector/Watcher were game reasons for a potential SK not to shoot. But if Eevee is town, then scum you would NOT know that Tracker was a game reason.
This feels like partner-y talk about two players they know to not be Mafia - It's completely safe:
Okay, I really should also vote: LL before I sink back into the world of work deadlines...
I'm feeling relatively unconvinced by the argument against gkrieg, until we know whether or not we can trust the person accusing him. Surely the logical thing is to wait for LL to flip before deciding whether to lynch someone on his say-so?
Do you think LaLight is lying about his target, or his role?
This conversation is actually prolonged over the next few posts that I didn't quote - but it all reads generally the same - a conversation between known!scum and faust debating the merits of lynching one non-mafia over another non-mafia.
This is a quote from me D2, but I was tallying up the general feelings at the time regarding LaLight's potential lynch:
That said, I've compiled a small little list on the topic of LL:
For LL Lynch:
O, Galz, Space, Eevee, Datswan, RR? II?
Against LL Lynch:
Teproc, e, faust, LL, Gkrieg
Unknown:
Chairs, Qvist, Jimmm
Note that either: All 4 scum were stating willingness to vote for LL (possible), or faust is scum.
And that's about it for D2. The only thing notable about Day 3 is that faust DID post (so was somewhat active), but did NOT vote for Iguana. This is -somewhat- townie, as I don't think anybody believed for a second that Iguana wasn't going to get lynched. On the other hand, the rush to lynch was borne from a fear that scum had PotI - something scum knew was not the case. Thus it's a lot easier for scum to not share in that same innate fear that was shown by pushing the lynch so quickly.
Onto Day 4!
There's actually very little for most of the day. Faust's early stuff is all revolving around Teproc/O - and while I DO see town!faust doing this more than scum!faust, I just don't have enough experience with scum!faust to say "No way, he's not scum". He then goes VLA for two days bringing us close-ish to the deadline upon his return. That said, there are a few things that stand out:
Like the following contradictory thought when justifying his drafting choice:
I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
I didn't think I'd get anything, and having information on whether Mother/Redirect is in the game seemed like a good thing to have, better even than a random weak PR.
What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
Why is that? I made a power ranking of the slots in the first run and had Barracks at position 6. It's pretty strong.
Why would this ever be an assumption? There is nothing (to my knowledge) to support this?
We should also think about the fact that scum likely has a Rolecop, and what that meas with regards to the claims.
In the quote below, there's nothing crazy noteworthy except the call for e to full claim if and who he's blocked - something that, while I believed e to be scum at the time, even I didn't want or push. If e was town (and he was), not knowing was FAR, FAR more valuable to town.
On the flip side of all of that, while I don't particularly agree with HOW he got to his potential lynch pool, I DO believe he's put 2 scum in 3 players at a time when he really didn't need to as scum:
I'm pretty sure that Eevee's not a Poisoner. The early claim does not make sense from a Poisoner!Eevee perspective. So among Space/Eevee I would definitely go for Space.
I just don't think there is any chance that the Masons get lynched at this point. They could well be scum, but there is little to do about that. The upside is that PoE is pretty strong if they are town. It may make sense to look for their most likely partner, as that is our only shot of winning if they are scum, and they are likely scum anyway if Teproc/O are town.
If I had to one single player that Teproc and O did not focus on at all, I'm landing on RR/e. I see no obvious reason why they are town. e more so because he is riding out his confirmation bias like there's no tomorrow, and that sort of conviction is not easily faked as scum.
Then there is DatSwan. I know he is posting a lot, but I cannot really recall any substance. The slot is a convenient one for scum to hide in, plus he's claimed VT. Galzria I'm suspicious of due to what role he went for... but on the other hand, scum!Galz would not be a VT I guess. And that means that Galz is less likely to be the Poisoner.
So I suppose my pool looks something like Space/DatSwan/RR.
What I -don't- like is that he was more concerned about trying to lynch the scum!poisoner over just simply lynching scum. We win if we lynch scum every day - and it's far easier to lynch {Any!Scum} than it is to lynch {Specific!Scum}.
Ultimately faust goes on to push a case on RR that is based on Tep/O being scum. Upon realizing that they could've hammered him and didn't, he dropped RR and voted DatSwan.
Now, again, let's come to the end of the day and look at a few different scenarios - It's important to note here that neither Faust nor RR were around at the deadline (and I'll come back to this in later posts because it's a big factor in my lynch preferences for today):
Scum team is Space/Faust/Eevee - RoadRunner and Faust are parked on DatSwan. They aren't around at deadline, those votes aren't moving. e also strongly prefers to lynch Datswan over Space, and is voting there for most of the runup to Space's lynch. In this scenario, Datswan must be town - Why didn't Space jump to / go for / attempt to get Datswan lynched? If he moves, and scum partner Eevee moves, town!Datswan is at 5 votes, needing just one more to lynch. As this did not happen, I do not believe this to be the scum team.
Scum team is Space/Faust/RoadRunner: Both of Space's scum partners park their vote on a town!Datswan in this situation here. e is also over on Datswan, so he's sitting at 3 votes. If Space moved over, this would put Datswan at 4 - not close enough to reasonably prevent Space's lynch without them being able to secure two from me/Eevee/Qvist (Space would've assumed there was no chance Tep/O were going to go Swan here - they had never stated any intention to do so at any point). This scum!faust scenario is possible - but I would've expected Space to be trying harder to rally up support for a Datswan lynch - something they never did.
Scum team is Space/Faust/Galzria - I don't have much to say about this as it's obviously not a thing, but if you were to consider the possability, I refer you back to the Space/Faust/Eevee scum team scenario. Why in the world would Space and I not have pushed for Datswan and the win (we would have had 5 votes there with e) over me bussing Space and Space trying to rally support for my lynch instead of theirs?
Space/Faust/Datswan - The most likely of the 4 scum teams that exist for Faust based off the end of day stuff. Even here though, the theory would be that scum!faust parked his vote on scummate!Swan prior to deadline right when the Masons were calling for the lynch of other!scummate!Space. I struggle a little bit to believe that faust wouldn't have parked his vote on town!RR or town!Galz at this point instead of scum!Swan. That aside, it makes sense here that Space wouldn't have wanted to go over to Swan. As with the Space/Faust/RR scum team, Space would've needed two additional townies to come over in order to make this lynch happen - and it wouldn've been all to get his scummate lynched. It's the only Scum!Faust that really explains Space not trying to move the lynch to Datswan though.
Blargh. So long. I'll hold off on posting my overall conclusions on lynch preferences following my rereads until all the rereads are done. I definitely have a #1 through #4 at this point though, so, yay for that.
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Sorry Space - throughout most of that I stayed gender neutral, but there is one instance of my reference to you as "his". Apologies!
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Note: Not all player have indicated a desire to extend the deadline. Namaste.
Unfortunate. I'll do my best then to get everything in by deadline (and even be here for deadline for that matter).
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
Why was Redirector specified to be Town and Watcher not? I've already floated the theory that you're claiming in Iguana's spot right now based on him going for redirector and failing - scum you would know that there's a chance that there's a town redirector in the game, but also that the Watcher is scum. It's weird that you differentiated here. It's obvious we're talking about the missing SK kill here, not some generic unknown, so Redirector (Mafia or Town), or Watcher (Mafia or Town) are both reasons for an SK to possibly not shoot (although both are farfetched reasons not to shoot D1). Also, why not mention Tracker? Scum you would know Redirector/Watcher were game reasons for a potential SK not to shoot. But if Eevee is town, then scum you would NOT know that Tracker was a game reason.
That seems like grasping at straws, man. I mean, I didn't repeat "town" because it is clear from context the second time, that is a common stylistic device in many languages including English called ellipsis. I did not mention Tracker because why would I? Scum cannot avoided being caught by a Tracker by choosing a different NK; if they are caught targeting the nightkill, they'll go down no matter who it is. On the other hand they can avoid being caught by the Watcher, obviously.
Have not yet read any further, but I wanted to say this.
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
Why was Redirector specified to be Town and Watcher not? I've already floated the theory that you're claiming in Iguana's spot right now based on him going for redirector and failing - scum you would know that there's a chance that there's a town redirector in the game, but also that the Watcher is scum. It's weird that you differentiated here. It's obvious we're talking about the missing SK kill here, not some generic unknown, so Redirector (Mafia or Town), or Watcher (Mafia or Town) are both reasons for an SK to possibly not shoot (although both are farfetched reasons not to shoot D1). Also, why not mention Tracker? Scum you would know Redirector/Watcher were game reasons for a potential SK not to shoot. But if Eevee is town, then scum you would NOT know that Tracker was a game reason.
That seems like grasping at straws, man. I mean, I didn't repeat "town" because it is clear from context the second time, that is a common stylistic device in many languages including English called ellipsis. I did not mention Tracker because why would I? Scum cannot avoided being caught by a Tracker by choosing a different NK; if they are caught targeting the nightkill, they'll go down no matter who it is. On the other hand they can avoid being caught by the Watcher, obviously.
Have not yet read any further, but I wanted to say this.
Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear - my contention was less on you not saying "Town Watcher", but more on you saying "Town Redirector". You're right that I wouldn't expect you to need to clarify Town/Scum when stating Watcher, but then I wouldn't think you would need to either with Redirector, yet you did.
And on the issue of Tracker, I don't see your point? The discussion was about why an SK might choose to kill at night. Redirector is a reason. Watcher is a reason. Tracker is a reason. All viable reasons for not shooting.
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"...SK might choose ***not*** to kill at night..."
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Fausty the Snowman, continued!:
What I -don't- like is that he was more concerned about trying to lynch the scum!poisoner over just simply lynching scum. We win if we lynch scum every day - and it's far easier to lynch {Any!Scum} than it is to lynch {Specific!Scum}.
Ultimately faust goes on to push a case on RR that is based on Tep/O being scum. Upon realizing that they could've hammered him and didn't, he dropped RR and voted DatSwan.
Now, again, let's come to the end of the day and look at a few different scenarios - It's important to note here that neither Faust nor RR were around at the deadline (and I'll come back to this in later posts because it's a big factor in my lynch preferences for today):
Scum team is Space/Faust/Eevee - RoadRunner and Faust are parked on DatSwan. They aren't around at deadline, those votes aren't moving. e also strongly prefers to lynch Datswan over Space, and is voting there for most of the runup to Space's lynch. In this scenario, Datswan must be town - Why didn't Space jump to / go for / attempt to get Datswan lynched? If he moves, and scum partner Eevee moves, town!Datswan is at 5 votes, needing just one more to lynch. As this did not happen, I do not believe this to be the scum team.
Scum team is Space/Faust/RoadRunner: Both of Space's scum partners park their vote on a town!Datswan in this situation here. e is also over on Datswan, so he's sitting at 3 votes. If Space moved over, this would put Datswan at 4 - not close enough to reasonably prevent Space's lynch without them being able to secure two from me/Eevee/Qvist (Space would've assumed there was no chance Tep/O were going to go Swan here - they had never stated any intention to do so at any point). This scum!faust scenario is possible - but I would've expected Space to be trying harder to rally up support for a Datswan lynch - something they never did.
Scum team is Space/Faust/Galzria - I don't have much to say about this as it's obviously not a thing, but if you were to consider the possability, I refer you back to the Space/Faust/Eevee scum team scenario. Why in the world would Space and I not have pushed for Datswan and the win (we would have had 5 votes there with e) over me bussing Space and Space trying to rally support for my lynch instead of theirs?
Space/Faust/Datswan - The most likely of the 4 scum teams that exist for Faust based off the end of day stuff. Even here though, the theory would be that scum!faust parked his vote on scummate!Swan prior to deadline right when the Masons were calling for the lynch of other!scummate!Space. I struggle a little bit to believe that faust wouldn't have parked his vote on town!RR or town!Galz at this point instead of scum!Swan. That aside, it makes sense here that Space wouldn't have wanted to go over to Swan. As with the Space/Faust/RR scum team, Space would've needed two additional townies to come over in order to make this lynch happen - and it wouldn've been all to get his scummate lynched. It's the only Scum!Faust that really explains Space not trying to move the lynch to Datswan though.
Blargh. So long. I'll hold off on posting my overall conclusions on lynch preferences following my rereads until all the rereads are done. I definitely have a #1 through #4 at this point though, so, yay for that.
I don't think anyone is reading this without guessing your order of lychables :P
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Not quite true that O and me had never stated any willingness to lynch DatSwan, btw. My lynchpool was {Galzria, Space, DatSwan} aka the Lost Numbers bids. As things turned out, I was pushing for Galz while O was pushing for Space within that group, but DatSwan was far from impossible to lynch with us I think. I think non-DatSwan-partnering!scum would have been aware of this, btw.
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Debating whether I should wait for faust to give my thoughts, but I guess I still have some rereading to do as well.
I think we want people to state how available they are going to be in the next two days.
One thing that I haven't seen people talk about is the Candidates QT. It's not the most relevant thing, and obviously not everyone has access to it, but it's probably worth taking a look at for those who can, given how many of the Candidates are still around.
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
mostly similar to Space except that scummy people are much more willing to lynch Swan than space.
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Debating whether I should wait for faust to give my thoughts, but I guess I still have some rereading to do as well.
I think we want people to state how available they are going to be in the next two days.
One thing that I haven't seen people talk about is the Candidates QT. It's not the most relevant thing, and obviously not everyone has access to it, but it's probably worth taking a look at for those who can, given how many of the Candidates are still around.
Teproc, Time Machine for me for a moment:
You win the SM investigation N1. Who do you investigate?
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
mostly similar to Space except that scummy people are much more willing to lynch Swan than space.
That's hardly evidence you were willing to lynch Swan yesterday. Go back and reread yourself and Teproc. Sure, there's the occasional mention that he's on your lists (or in your pools, or whatever) - but there was no actual effort visible from an outside-your-heads perspective that honestly supports your willingness to consider him a lynch candidate.
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
mostly similar to Space except that scummy people are much more willing to lynch Swan than space.
That's hardly evidence you were willing to lynch Swan yesterday. Go back and reread yourself and Teproc. Sure, there's the occasional mention that he's on your lists (or in your pools, or whatever) - but there was no actual effort visible from an outside-your-heads perspective that honestly supports your willingness to consider him a lynch candidate.
It's not a criticism, just an observation. I don't think anybody looking at the day would've seriously considered a likelihood where you guys decide to lynch Swan over Space or Me, or even Faust (despite the later-on falling off of that lynch preference).
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Yea this is all just making me want to lynch space even more now.
it is a fair point that they are probably the watcher, so not a poisoner, and that they could give us something useful tomorrow or be killed and resolved that way if town.
what are your thoughts on swan, O?
mostly similar to Space except that scummy people are much more willing to lynch Swan than space.
That's hardly evidence you were willing to lynch Swan yesterday. Go back and reread yourself and Teproc. Sure, there's the occasional mention that he's on your lists (or in your pools, or whatever) - but there was no actual effort visible from an outside-your-heads perspective that honestly supports your willingness to consider him a lynch candidate.
I can't see how that statement could be interpreted as anything other than "I'll lynch Datswan, but I prefer Space (and perhaps Faust)"
PPE: I don't feel criticized. I'm just not sure everyone else interpreted that line the same way you did.
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Debating whether I should wait for faust to give my thoughts, but I guess I still have some rereading to do as well.
I think we want people to state how available they are going to be in the next two days.
One thing that I haven't seen people talk about is the Candidates QT. It's not the most relevant thing, and obviously not everyone has access to it, but it's probably worth taking a look at for those who can, given how many of the Candidates are still around.
Teproc, Time Machine for me for a moment:
You win the SM investigation N1. Who do you investigate?
You. I distinctly remember thinking about that actually.
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Debating whether I should wait for faust to give my thoughts, but I guess I still have some rereading to do as well.
I think we want people to state how available they are going to be in the next two days.
One thing that I haven't seen people talk about is the Candidates QT. It's not the most relevant thing, and obviously not everyone has access to it, but it's probably worth taking a look at for those who can, given how many of the Candidates are still around.
Teproc, Time Machine for me for a moment:
You win the SM investigation N1. Who do you investigate?
You. I distinctly remember thinking about that actually.
Well, maybe that doesn't help any! I knew that night that I was torn between Iguana (the idea of a SM-Poisoner, especially one with access to the Candidate thread, terrified me) - or E evee, who's intentionally stated lack of participation made me believe quite strongly he was hiding something (hence my scum read on him D1/D2 in particular)
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No way SM-Poisoner claims though right ? Yeah there's a delay and they can wait to know about several candidates but... the possibility never entered my mind really. And I thought e was townie, so that also would not have been much of a thing for me.
Why ?
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Meaning why the question.
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Fausty the Snowman, continued!:
What I -don't- like is that he was more concerned about trying to lynch the scum!poisoner over just simply lynching scum. We win if we lynch scum every day - and it's far easier to lynch {Any!Scum} than it is to lynch {Specific!Scum}.
Ultimately faust goes on to push a case on RR that is based on Tep/O being scum. Upon realizing that they could've hammered him and didn't, he dropped RR and voted DatSwan.
Now, again, let's come to the end of the day and look at a few different scenarios - It's important to note here that neither Faust nor RR were around at the deadline (and I'll come back to this in later posts because it's a big factor in my lynch preferences for today):
Scum team is Space/Faust/Eevee - RoadRunner and Faust are parked on DatSwan. They aren't around at deadline, those votes aren't moving. e also strongly prefers to lynch Datswan over Space, and is voting there for most of the runup to Space's lynch. In this scenario, Datswan must be town - Why didn't Space jump to / go for / attempt to get Datswan lynched? If he moves, and scum partner Eevee moves, town!Datswan is at 5 votes, needing just one more to lynch. As this did not happen, I do not believe this to be the scum team.
Scum team is Space/Faust/RoadRunner: Both of Space's scum partners park their vote on a town!Datswan in this situation here. e is also over on Datswan, so he's sitting at 3 votes. If Space moved over, this would put Datswan at 4 - not close enough to reasonably prevent Space's lynch without them being able to secure two from me/Eevee/Qvist (Space would've assumed there was no chance Tep/O were going to go Swan here - they had never stated any intention to do so at any point). This scum!faust scenario is possible - but I would've expected Space to be trying harder to rally up support for a Datswan lynch - something they never did.
Scum team is Space/Faust/Galzria - I don't have much to say about this as it's obviously not a thing, but if you were to consider the possability, I refer you back to the Space/Faust/Eevee scum team scenario. Why in the world would Space and I not have pushed for Datswan and the win (we would have had 5 votes there with e) over me bussing Space and Space trying to rally support for my lynch instead of theirs?
Space/Faust/Datswan - The most likely of the 4 scum teams that exist for Faust based off the end of day stuff. Even here though, the theory would be that scum!faust parked his vote on scummate!Swan prior to deadline right when the Masons were calling for the lynch of other!scummate!Space. I struggle a little bit to believe that faust wouldn't have parked his vote on town!RR or town!Galz at this point instead of scum!Swan. That aside, it makes sense here that Space wouldn't have wanted to go over to Swan. As with the Space/Faust/RR scum team, Space would've needed two additional townies to come over in order to make this lynch happen - and it wouldn've been all to get his scummate lynched. It's the only Scum!Faust that really explains Space not trying to move the lynch to Datswan though.
Blargh. So long. I'll hold off on posting my overall conclusions on lynch preferences following my rereads until all the rereads are done. I definitely have a #1 through #4 at this point though, so, yay for that.
I don't think anyone is reading this without guessing your order of lychables :P
Well, fine. But it's not set in stone. And I haven't looked at most big rereads by you or anybody else posted from today. But my preference as of right now is:
Swan > RR > Faust > Eevee
There are a number of things for RR that I wanted to bring up doing the Faust reread but I didn't want to get muddled. Same (but to a lesser degree) for you. The biggest strike against you is the end of day yesterday, which just strongly suggests EITHER RR/Faust as the last two scum, or you are.
I'm willing to consider lynching RR over you - but I still want to fully do each of your rereads first.
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No way SM-Poisoner claims though right ? Yeah there's a delay and they can wait to know about several candidates but... the possibility never entered my mind really. And I thought e was townie, so that also would not have been much of a thing for me.
Why ?
I just... wouldn't have investigated me I guess. I found the decision weird so was hoping you had a different thought.
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Right. Well, you're an active player and you're hard to read. That's enough to make you a high value investigative target to me.
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No way SM-Poisoner claims though right ? Yeah there's a delay and they can wait to know about several candidates but... the possibility never entered my mind really. And I thought e was townie, so that also would not have been much of a thing for me.
Why ?
He only needs to kill 5 of us though. I didn't think he would claim then shoot N1, but having the ability to fire off the Poisoner shot whenever he needed with a days delay for the kill to hit seemed incredibly powerful to me.
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Debating whether I should wait for faust to give my thoughts, but I guess I still have some rereading to do as well.
I think we want people to state how available they are going to be in the next two days.
One thing that I haven't seen people talk about is the Candidates QT. It's not the most relevant thing, and obviously not everyone has access to it, but it's probably worth taking a look at for those who can, given how many of the Candidates are still around.
Availability - I will around for 24 hours. and then upon the deadline I will be available for like the 6 hours right up to it.
Candidate Thread - I don't think there is a ton of super relevant information there TBH. We were pretty set on playing against the potential "SK may be in here idea". Only things I can think of would be;
1) I voted for myself N1 for already stated reasons (wanted to clear someone so they could act as leader).
2) All remaining candidates pretty actively participated. Exception I guess being Eevee, but I don't think anything they did is really scummy.
I guess the main thing to take away from Candidate Thread would link back to Galz claim early Day 2. At first I wanted to say this had to make him town but the more I thought on it certain elements came into play:
1) SK is a N2 commuter and we have to assume they take that action that night, so no one probably getting SKed N2.
2) Galz (and I to be fair) were pretty certain that LL was Skum of sorts. So I mean, if you are skum, and you think you have two lyches to get it done, and you know the player in question is not Mafia (LL)... IDK I guess I see it being equal between Skum!Galz and VT!Galz here. Not all players... just Galz.
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
Why was Redirector specified to be Town and Watcher not? I've already floated the theory that you're claiming in Iguana's spot right now based on him going for redirector and failing - scum you would know that there's a chance that there's a town redirector in the game, but also that the Watcher is scum. It's weird that you differentiated here. It's obvious we're talking about the missing SK kill here, not some generic unknown, so Redirector (Mafia or Town), or Watcher (Mafia or Town) are both reasons for an SK to possibly not shoot (although both are farfetched reasons not to shoot D1). Also, why not mention Tracker? Scum you would know Redirector/Watcher were game reasons for a potential SK not to shoot. But if Eevee is town, then scum you would NOT know that Tracker was a game reason.
That seems like grasping at straws, man. I mean, I didn't repeat "town" because it is clear from context the second time, that is a common stylistic device in many languages including English called ellipsis. I did not mention Tracker because why would I? Scum cannot avoided being caught by a Tracker by choosing a different NK; if they are caught targeting the nightkill, they'll go down no matter who it is. On the other hand they can avoid being caught by the Watcher, obviously.
Have not yet read any further, but I wanted to say this.
Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear - my contention was less on you not saying "Town Watcher", but more on you saying "Town Redirector". You're right that I wouldn't expect you to need to clarify Town/Scum when stating Watcher, but then I wouldn't think you would need to either with Redirector, yet you did.
And on the issue of Tracker, I don't see your point? The discussion was about why an SK might choose to kill at night. Redirector is a reason. Watcher is a reason. Tracker is a reason. All viable reasons for not shooting.
That is so weird. I was sure at the time we were talking about the nightkill choice of mafia... not sure why, as it clearly isn't indicated. But obviously referring to Redirector or Watcher as a reason to not kill at all is nonsense. Sorry for not making sense.
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Like the following contradictory thought when justifying his drafting choice:
I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
I didn't think I'd get anything, and having information on whether Mother/Redirect is in the game seemed like a good thing to have, better even than a random weak PR.
What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
Why is that? I made a power ranking of the slots in the first run and had Barracks at position 6. It's pretty strong.
I don't see anything contradictory about that.
Why would this ever be an assumption? There is nothing (to my knowledge) to support this?
We should also think about the fact that scum likely has a Rolecop, and what that meas with regards to the claims.
Well, the N3 Forensic Scientist died on N3. Might be coincidence, but chairs was not really an expected kill choice either.
In the quote below, there's nothing crazy noteworthy except the call for e to full claim if and who he's blocked - something that, while I believed e to be scum at the time, even I didn't want or push. If e was town (and he was), not knowing was FAR, FAR more valuable to town.
What would have been the value in it?
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I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night.
I can like literally see at least one reason.
Share please?
Town Redirector? Also, Watcher. I mean this is pretty basic stuff.
Why was Redirector specified to be Town and Watcher not? I've already floated the theory that you're claiming in Iguana's spot right now based on him going for redirector and failing - scum you would know that there's a chance that there's a town redirector in the game, but also that the Watcher is scum. It's weird that you differentiated here. It's obvious we're talking about the missing SK kill here, not some generic unknown, so Redirector (Mafia or Town), or Watcher (Mafia or Town) are both reasons for an SK to possibly not shoot (although both are farfetched reasons not to shoot D1). Also, why not mention Tracker? Scum you would know Redirector/Watcher were game reasons for a potential SK not to shoot. But if Eevee is town, then scum you would NOT know that Tracker was a game reason.
That seems like grasping at straws, man. I mean, I didn't repeat "town" because it is clear from context the second time, that is a common stylistic device in many languages including English called ellipsis. I did not mention Tracker because why would I? Scum cannot avoided being caught by a Tracker by choosing a different NK; if they are caught targeting the nightkill, they'll go down no matter who it is. On the other hand they can avoid being caught by the Watcher, obviously.
Have not yet read any further, but I wanted to say this.
Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear - my contention was less on you not saying "Town Watcher", but more on you saying "Town Redirector". You're right that I wouldn't expect you to need to clarify Town/Scum when stating Watcher, but then I wouldn't think you would need to either with Redirector, yet you did.
And on the issue of Tracker, I don't see your point? The discussion was about why an SK might choose to kill at night. Redirector is a reason. Watcher is a reason. Tracker is a reason. All viable reasons for not shooting.
That is so weird. I was sure at the time we were talking about the nightkill choice of mafia... not sure why, as it clearly isn't indicated. But obviously referring to Redirector or Watcher as a reason to not kill at all is nonsense. Sorry for not making sense.
Actually rereading DatSwan cleared this up. This is DatSwan's whole post:
Wow... that is a lot in a short period of time.
Main thing here so far - If LL is the JK.. I can like literally see no reason why skum would not kill at night. That seems like a very strong role for them to want out of the game. Does anyone have any insight on LL's bid/# claims? I am not trying to promote a claim list here, but I am just on the fence because LL's actions at EOD seemed very Townie, but looking at it retrospectively seems very skummish. My thought is only if we can confirm LL was truthful or lying it might help with decisions?
It's clear that he's talking about why scum did not shoot LaLight, and that is what I responded to. Admittedly my snipping of DatSwan's post was less than ideal.
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Next reread: DatSwan!
This sounds scummy.
Then not a lot of scumhunting going on. Main targets are gkrieg and RR. Votes Idplay over LaLight late into D1. That isn't very informative. Overall a pretty lurky D1.
Case for lynching LL?
If you 'lie' as town you die
Town LL - claims to help town. Makes a mistake on the number. Does not correct it.
Mafia LL - claims to look towny when they going down. Purposefully messes up the number. Why? He could of just “not corrected it now” or could of claimed real number, or if he has skum brethren who are just Goon, could of swapped claims with them.
SK LL - claims to look towny when going down. If he dies it doesn’t matter if the info was true or not bc he is his own faction. More interestingly if he is SK he has knowledge of un used roles, which assumingly could play a part in his plan.
Now there is all of that... and then yeah it could of just been a whoopsie. However; this one is not sold that “the player that has NEVER” been mislynched blunders that hard....
I could be talked out if it, but for now vote: LL
DatSwan thinking about SK!LaLight. Scummy.
Wow I feel special.
I didn't shoot.
So just to clarify.
@Galz - he has now said he did not shoot. Some one is posioned tomorrow. What is your reaction in hat scenario?
You know, this really sounds scummy. On the other hand, more or less the same thing happened in my first game with Swan (he asked "what happens if X and Y flip scum", and then X and Y did flip scum. I was so convinced that Swan was their partner, but it was wrong.)
No post during D3.
I think we need to be weary of how much power we give the "masons" before they are verified, but I am good with the claim concept at this point
Scummy as well.
Swan's activity picks up during D4. I guess that could just be struggling with D1 as many players do. Still I don't like it. He's there right when scum needs to be a driving force of the discussion. The large majority of those posts are theorycrafting and self-defense. There is very little actual commitment to reads.
OK I have done some reading and it is extremely late so reasoning will have to follow if needed... But I am not seeing the Space case here. I get that yeah it is probably what he would do if X and Y happened and he is Skum!Space but, it just seems too perfect.
I re read as Skum!Space and I re read as Town!Space... I can see arguments fo finding links to Skum!Space, but they all can be inferred as how a Town Tracker would play. I just don't see them being the lynch. Even if I am wrong and they are skum then we still miss the poisoner I think? There is no way for skum to talk during the day so if they were skum, and pulling a poisoner-watcher switch - why would they pick to claim tracking a high profile target like Galz last night? They could not of known it was true.
Obviously I also am against lynching myself. But I am kind of over defending that at this point. If anyone wants to pursue it I will be happy to elaborate further.
Faust is quite clearly skum.
I get that we are trying to find the poisoner, and that because of this he isn't the one who is poisoned.... but if our lynch pool consists of the 1) the AFK dude that pops in with numbers every once and a while, 2) skum!Faust, and 3) Me...
Then we have a problem because only one of us is for sure flipping skum in that group and I cannot believe he is the poisoner as played.
I think we need to consider the outlier idea, that the poisoner would be deliberately quiet to just stay out of action. I said it day 1 and I will say it again. RR.
This is interesting. I think the defense of Space is actually somewhat townie. Then, we have the "faust is clearly scum" line, which it seems he picked up from Space, so scum points there. The pushback to his early read on RR is townish again.
I have now changed my mind on Galz being town by the way. To be safe I am not going to vote at this time. But I believe I would be on board with a Galz lynch.
That's after Teproc brings up the possibility of a Galzria lynch. Scummy.
The simplest selection for poisoner is me or Galz. Plain and simple. I don’t think we should waste time considering other candidates at this point. Pick one of us. Either we will win or I will flip VT. Then RB Galz if you can, town lives to fight another day. Lynch him then, and the pool consists of Faust and either the Tracker orneatcher. Game set match.
Oh man, that is a post of asherskian quality. Would DatSwan really try to pull this on scumpartner!Galzria? I don't know. On the other hand, if DatSwan is scum, why try to force a 1v1? To portect Space? That doesn't make sense as Space is not the Poisoner.
RR - Someone said earlier in the game "the simplest explanation in Mafia is often the correct one" (or something along those lines). RR is not the simpilest explaination I guess, but IMO, if I were the poisoner, the simplest way to protect myself would to be just staying out of it.
Space and Eevee - I think it is likely that one of these two are dirty. At first I was leaning Space purely based on the ideal that it would be harder for Eevee to create a lie based on the time that they claimed. Currently, I just don't know. The only way it really makes sense in my head is if it is either both Eevee and Space, or if skum has 2 out of the top 4 picks and they took Tracker as 3. For Space - all of the above points (as they are relevant to Space instead of Eevee) plus the fact that I believe if we think one or the other have to skum then watcher seems to have more utility for the skum team. That being said, I just gut feeling do not think it is Eevee and Space has been so helpful and towny with their posts that I could I guess see a both of them being town scenario.
Faust - I said that I think he is skum, I still pretty much think he is skum, but players that have played just so many more games with him than I seem to think that "this isn't how Skum!Faust would play". My opinion is still mine to have and I think that delaying the claim was strange and skummy, but other than that I guess I don't really have much of a skum reason for Faust.
Galz - I could write mountains, but I have already said all I have to say, so I wont waste space re-capping my thoughts. He strikes me as the skummiest player around at this point. The die hard read on LL early game (maybe LL is SK or maybe they are not, but Skum!Galz can push it without relent knowing that worse case they take out a town and there is a reason it was pushed so hard), to the weird whatever type of interaction you want to call it with Iguana on Day 2, to his Day 4 over appeal to probability to make a case against me... Unless like O or Teproc somehow got lynched and flipped over as skum I do not see a Day 5 where my opinion can change on this which is why he is still my #1.
Reads. He suspects every scum candidate still alive today. Eevee is said to be the towniest. We have Galz and RR. From what he writes, it would seem he should go RR over Galzria, but he doesn't. Darn. Maybe they are partners after all.
Then at the end of the day, he pushes hard against a Space lynch. I don't really see why.... he has indicated that he thinks they might be scum. On the other hand, as scum, one of Space/DatSwan will be lynched, and it would likely be to scum!Swan's benefit to have it be Space, so why try to avoid that lynch if it only makes your lynch more likely?
Eevee - if I may - Why did you choose to track RR last night over other potential skum?
Townie question.
Okay, so this hasn't been as conclusive as I hoped. Swan read scummy to me during D4, but upon closer examination I cannot really point my finger on why.
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OK we are getting close here so I want to put this out there. Obviously, the end of yesterday is the majority focus at this point. Bummer for us because it puts me in a situation where I have to defend my actions and I don't really have a defense other than that I just didn't read Space as skummy as everyone else. As for other people's actions, I cannot explain them because they are not my own.
So here is where I am at - We need to lynch Skum. If I get lynched we lose. Whatever everyone says that, I know, it is just where I am at. I am combining a few assumptions here to come up with the last bit at the end...
We can survive to tomorrow one of two ways:
1) We lynch Skum
2) We mis-lynch the Poisoned Town (if there is one)
So, if we assume those things... we are left with this:
1) Skum!Swan:
- Eevee = Maybe. In a II/Space/Swan/Eevee world, he didn't switch to me and neither did Space. That being said, I think that we all (myself included) did not think the Masons were willing to vote me yesterday.
- Galz = No shot. I am just not good enough to sell this team the way it would have to be. That being said, voting yesterday would be the same theory in a II/Space/Swan/Galz world.
- Faust = We have been pretty openly pushing for each other the whole game, and one of us has to be poisoner in this situation. Additionally, he parks himself on me yesterday before he knows what is going on and then just what... leaves hoping for the best. I just don't see that as a viable option.
- RR = Same logic as Swan!Faust.
*All in all, IMO (extremely bias opinion, but can't help that) most likely partners if I am Skum would have to Faust or RR*
2) Skum!Eevee:
- Swan = He could of switched to me and didn't. In this situation I have to be poisoner, so I guess it could make sense.
- Galz = Both on Space yesterday. Could be a double bus, but that is like super weird.
- Faust = Would not explain him not switching to me in a world where Space does actually switch to me, but as that did not happen combined with Skum!Tracker would want to retain cred, I see this as an option.
- RR = So far my favorite theory. Eevee could be lying about RR results absolving him so to speak. RR was on me yesterday after stating clear reasons (so he is covered) and Eevee was on Space.
*Most likely partners RR or Faust (big favorite on RR)*
3) Skum!Galz:
- Swan = Nope.
- Faust = Could be. After the whole Faust stall out and Galz leading the dial off, maybe it is a good skum play. Based on Watcher being Skum, I suppose either could be poisoner. Most likely Galz in this scenario as he would not want to look skummy by switching off of Space.
- Eevee = They are kind of buddy buddy and a lot of their interactions seem fake. On the other hand, they were both on Space. Yeah they would both have to have PRs but still, they could of tried for Town!Swan lynch and they didn't so IDK how viable team is.
- RR = Pretty limited interaction. Although, it would mean that RR neither Poisoned nor killed last night (verified by Town!Tracker). I actually still think this could be an option.
MOD QUESTION - IF A ROLE BLOCK IS SUCCESSFUL IN BLOCKING THEIR TARGET, AND THE TRACKER TRACKS THE BLOCKED PLAYER, WHAT MESSAGE DOES THE TRACKER RECEIVE?
*I do not even know what the most likely team would be here. The downside of playing with a good player, it could literally be anyone. Although I guess, based on the interactions, I would say RR or Eevee (assuming I am correct about the message Tracker gets)*
4) Skum!Faust:
- Swan = In this scenario either of us could be Poisoner, so him parking on me could be a way of keeping a vote off of a Skum PR. That being said, he has kind of been half on me until being full on me the whole game. So that would be a weird long con bus to risk.
- Galz = Possible. Again, they are both excellent players and could have everything planned out. Either could be Poisoner. Galz could of switched to me with SkumBrothers!Faust and Space already there, pretty well hiding himself though, so IDK about that.
- RR = I could see this. BC of Town!Tracker in this scenario, it would mean Faust at least killed last night. He could also be poisoner, and in this situation if Poisoner is going to fire and there is a clear "might be targeted vs. won't be targeted" scenario" - like the one reason to have the person carry both kills.
- Eevee = Seems strange that Tracker would not track Faust, Galz, or myself last night. Faust was I believe also the first person to bring up that we cannot trust Tracker results, which would probably be the play if it was them.
*Again, the bummer of playing with a good player, it could be any of the above. If forced to pick, I think the most likely options are Eevee or RR.
5) Skum!RR:
Swan = He is targeting me and I am targeting him. He was sitting on me yesterday. In a world with Town Tracker, means I have to be Poisoner, which I feel is accepted as unlikely among all remaining, and it would therefore mean Skum/Poisoner!Swan both killed and poisoned last night (don't know why Skum would not diversify at this point, or a minimum not have a prime target carry out the kill).
Eevee = My favorite as previously mentioned. Eevee lies about the results he got, RR is poisoner. Eevee busses Space (N3 convo goes something like "if one of us is going down just bus that person"), they have RR fire both shots under absolution that he probably won't be blocked and they can hide the results.
Galz = Maybe. Again, limited interaction. This makes a Town Tracker so it would have to be Galz carrying the kill last night. Galz busses space and RR is on me, so there is that argument against it bc Galz did not switch though. Also, this would have to make Galz poisoner (assuming they shot last night).
Faust = RR has been on me and Faust all of end game. Would mean Faust would of carried the kill last night, which seems an unlikely choice in this duo.
All in all this puts, IMO (as unbiasly as I can look at it), the mostly likely 4 teams being:
RR!Eevee - Just seems too easy. Last night one busses, the other parks on me. Today RR carries both and is invincible due to Tracker results.
RR!Faust - Faust is Poisoner, if he is going to shoot anyways, why not carry both actions. They were also both voting for me EOD yesterday.
Swan!Faust/RR - Park on Swan to keep vote off Space. Swan does not vote space because he doesn't want credit? I guess.
Galz!Faust/RR - Park on Swan to keep vote off Space. Galz busses Space.
This is just my looking at it. But I wanted to explain my logic for so hard pursuing a RR lynch at this time. He is just the LCD so to speak.
Additionally, if I am wrong and RR is Town, there is the last ditch effort concept for us to take into consideration....
Assuming that Poisoner shot last night and got it off, I think the people the ABSOLUTELY would not target last night were Swan Faust or Galz because we were the 3 most lychable to start D5. Assuming they want a shot at still being able to swing the Fake Mason bit, they probably did not poison Teproc or O because one flipping confirms the other and then they lose that.
This leaves Eevee and RR.
1) I think there is a stronger case for RR than Eevee in general.
2) If RR flips Skum it GREATLY increases the chances of a RR!Eevee scenario.
3) While I do not understand why skum would not kill Town!Eevee last night, knowing that potential RB would wake up dead, logic would follow they also did not poison him.
I think there is a good case for RR, and if you are town I am sorry, but I also think that given the actions so far... there is a good chance you could be poisoned if you are actually Town!RR.
While obviously I am leaning RR for my favorite, when I factor in "if we are wrong who could be poisoned" it kind of just puts it over the edge for me.
Also, if he is town and poisoned, this essentially absolves RR leaving the remaining pool (Masons excluded) as Swan/Galz/Faust. If we lynch Swan/Galz/Faust instead, we are praying that they are Skum because I don't think it possible one of us are poisoned. And then tomorrow arn't we are just back to square 1 where the most likely team is RR!Eevee.
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Finally, Eevee.
I won't lie (because i'm town), I'm kind of lurking purposefully, meaning I'm reading along but it's just too many people for me to find anything reasonable to say. My plan is to shoot semi-random votes and hope I get lucky and hit scum.
Kind of townie.
Vote: RR
I'll reread him later today, but that didn't look like towny flailing to me.
Was going to say this makes Eevee/RR less likely, however:
Reread RR.
I'm on the fence, still. Those long posts read to me more like scum paranoia than anything else, but the other posts felt townier to me.
Unvote I guess.
Then pursues WW, LaLight, Idplay. Not a good selection.
I would also like to know why I was scummy at end of day. I worked really hard to a) get my preferred lynch through or b) if not, at least get a lynch through. I put myself in a position where I was in the spotlight, it was the end of day, so I'd be held accountable for my actions, and in the end I had to make decisions on a minutes notice. Is that a position scum wants to be in?
I thought that WW had a (relatively) good chance of being scum (wrong), that LL had a (relatively) good chance of being scum AND that his claim was very dubious (I'm coming around to LL probably being town now).
That posts looks pretty scummy, especially the turnaround on LaLight.
Maybe scum thought that LL could be helpful in getting a mislynch today (he was pretty vocal about suspecting me yesterday - maybe scum DID discuss me as a possible mislynch candidate), coupled with the pros of killing WW. I think early in the game, scum often tries to cause confusion with their kills.
If LL is town, at some point in the game scum will have to bite the bullet and killhim, since they don't even have a permanent roleblock (if LL is town he is the jailkeeper), so I'm definitely not interested in lynching him at this hour. I think that situation will resolve itself, especially because LL is giving us plenty to work with. Not that it wouldn't be helpful to confirm his claim, of course.
Why don't scum have a permanent Roleblocker?
Argh. I missed that there was one, only saw the 1-shot in JOAT and the jailkeeper. Disregard.
Mild town because scum would at least have considered Roleblocker.
Then we have
Case for lynching LL?
Vote: LL
I don't really see the reasoning. Maybe it will come.
Space has been pretty quiet this game, but that can probably be chalked up to their trip. Since, a comfortable place for scum hide, if that's what they drew. No real point to this musing, just occurred to me that Space is usually someone more talked about.
This is just the start of a longer post that goes on to discuss LaLight in detail. It's quite scummy.
There is no mention of Eevee's e result during D2. I don't think Eevee ever even mentions his name. That is strange play for a town PR.
Then, D3, we have this:
It really does seem like Iguana wants to be lynched. Could there be other reasons than the protector of the island? I can't think of any.
Eevee already knows that Qvist is PotI and used the power. Still he is voting for iguana and cutting the day short with no necessity whatsoever. Scum scum scum.
Okay, I'll kick us off.
I have a result on Space. I think they should claim first.
This comes only after massclaim has been established as the way to go. Noteworthy that scum!Eevee would certainly not have tracked Space. But also, he knows he does not have to worry about tracking/watching. Why lie? Maybe he does not want to support a townie's claim, and does not feel sufficiently confident for the 1v1.
I guess a question for an Eevee/Space team is, why did they decide to ICfy Qvist? There was no real necessity to that. On the other hand, I guess they would know that Qvist prevented the NK and that alone would make him look townie. It makes sense from that perspective.
Now, some reads:
Space, I'm leaning town, but not sure. If they are scum, it needs to be a scum watcher, right?
Left with
RR, faust, DatSwan, Galzria
I would say that of the four, Galzria is towniest. I pegged him for a VT already when he offered up his candidacy earlier, although could be a scum long con. Just in general he's been snappier than usual in this game (in my opinion), which is a trait I'd more connect to town.
RR has been super scummy, his "this feels desperate" and nothing else rings really hollow. I hadn't really been considering Swan much until now, which I guess is exactly what scum would want.
Something's up with faust and the claims, interested to see where this goes. If there is a deadlock, having Qvist decide who claims and when seems fair and good. He is the towniest guy around.
Dunno, nothing really stands out except the townread on Space.
faust and roadrunner are my top two scumreads.
Eevee continues to fire a bit against RR, but not in any decisive manner. I think this totally fits as mild scum bussing. It continues here:
RR I was feeling very scummy on, and now that's waning mostly through me becoming more paranoid about other players, RR himself really hasn't done much. Still wondering why he isn't more on the table as a lynch option.
That post also leaves many options open for scum.
I'm terrified of voting because I feel I'm going to get it wrong and feel stupid, but I'll Vote: RR.
Votes RR over any of the currently existing wagons.
Then goes for Galzria when that becomes an option. I think an Eevee/Galzria team is pretty unlikely.
Then the N4 investigation. I mean, clearing scumpartner!RR makes sense as scum would have to expect him coming under serious scrutiny today. It also fits with Eevee stated reads. On the other hand, scum!Eevee could try to frame someone, making it 1v1. I would kind of expect that, as scum!Eevee has a harder time trying to explain his continued survival in the future. So that is somewhat townie.
Overall, Eevee looks quite a bit scummier than I thought. I believe my lynch preferences right now would look something like
RR > Eevee > DatSwan > Galzria.
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2) We mis-lynch the Poisoned Town (if there is one)
This is not a winning scenario:
D5 end: 7 alive, 2 scum. -> mislynch poisoned player (or mislynch anyone if poison was blocked)
D6 start: 5 alive, 2 scum, 1 poisoned -> lynch any scum (4 alive, 1 scum)
N6: Poisonee dies, scum nightkill: 2 deaths
D7 start: 2 alive, 1 scum -> scum wins.
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I am not sure if that's good procedure, but DatSwan, I locked the topic you acidentally created.
@mods: Please look into that. If you need forum moderator support, it's probably best to contact gkrieg/ashersky for any further action.
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The points you bring up regarding Eevee's lack of any breadcrumbing D2, as well as his play to stay silent on the PotI thing D3 are well made.
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The points you bring up regarding Eevee's lack of any breadcrumbing D2, as well as his play to stay silent on the PotI thing D3 are well made.
It's worth noting too that while I've argued it's unlikely for Eevee to be scum based on the end of day play yesterday (why wouldn't he and Space team up to avoid a Space lynch?) - it's been based mostly on a town!Swan theory. That is, with town!Swan, scum!Space & scum!Eevee could've joined RR/Faust/e to put Swan at 5 votes, requiring just a single player to switch for the win.
This does NOT hold if the scum team is Space, DatSwan and Eevee though. In this scenario there was no good out. They could've all piled on me, but with Faust/RR out of the action at deadline, and me unwilling to vote for myself, they would've required 3 of 4 out of Teproc/O/Qvist/e to switch to me late. Not likely.
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We're definitely not lynching Eevee today though. Eevee/DatSwan makes some sense yeah,kinda, but individually Eevee seems townie if only for the whole kerfuffle with Space and the timing and nature of his claim. They didn't know Tracke was even available, and Eevee claimed that second, pretty low in the draft.
For the DatSwan/Eevee otpiion, clearly the lynch would be DatSwan because it covers other scenarios.
I'm not 100% sure who I want to lynch today, but I know it isn't Eevee.
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We're definitely not lynching Eevee today though. Eevee/DatSwan makes some sense yeah,kinda, but individually Eevee seems townie if only for the whole kerfuffle with Space and the timing and nature of his claim. They didn't know Tracke was even available, and Eevee claimed that second, pretty low in the draft.
For the DatSwan/Eevee otpiion, clearly the lynch would be DatSwan because it covers other scenarios.
I'm not 100% sure who I want to lynch today, but I know it isn't Eevee.
Obviously. It's, as Swan put it, a lowest common denominator thing. Eevee makes sense in far fewer teams than almost anybody.
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2) We mis-lynch the Poisoned Town (if there is one)
This is not a winning scenario:
D5 end: 7 alive, 2 scum. -> mislynch poisoned player (or mislynch anyone if poison was blocked)
D6 start: 5 alive, 2 scum, 1 poisoned -> lynch any scum (4 alive, 1 scum)
N6: Poisonee dies, scum nightkill: 2 deaths
D7 start: 2 alive, 1 scum -> scum wins.
Well I mean assuming poison went off and assuming nonpoisoner kill D6. Why are you so sure poison went off?
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2) We mis-lynch the Poisoned Town (if there is one)
This is not a winning scenario:
D5 end: 7 alive, 2 scum. -> mislynch poisoned player (or mislynch anyone if poison was blocked)
D6 start: 5 alive, 2 scum, 1 poisoned -> lynch any scum (4 alive, 1 scum)
N6: Poisonee dies, scum nightkill: 2 deaths
D7 start: 2 alive, 1 scum -> scum wins.
Well I mean assuming poison went off and assuming nonpoisoner kill D6. Why are you so sure poison went off?
His point is that it doesn't matter in regards to what you've proposed.
There's 7 alive right now:
IF: The Poisoner was blocked and we mislynch, then going into tonight there's 4 Town and 2 Scum. In the morning tomorrow, the Poisoner will have had the opportunity to poison one of the remaining 3 town that scum chooses to leave alive. At that point, even if we lynch the Poisoner, we'll enter the following night with 3 town and 1 Scum. That night the final scum will kill an unpoisoned player and that will be game as the following morning will dawn with just 1 Scum and 1 town.
IF: The Poisoner was not blocked and we "mislynch" the poisoned player today, see:
...then going into tonight there's 4 Town and 2 Scum. In the morning tomorrow, the Poisoner will have had the opportunity to poison one of the remaining 3 town that scum chooses to leave alive. At that point, even if we lynch the Poisoner, we'll enter the following night with 3 town and 1 Scum. That night the final scum will kill an unpoisoned player and that will be game as the following morning will dawn with just 1 Scum and 1 town.
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2) We mis-lynch the Poisoned Town (if there is one)
This is not a winning scenario:
D5 end: 7 alive, 2 scum. -> mislynch poisoned player (or mislynch anyone if poison was blocked)
D6 start: 5 alive, 2 scum, 1 poisoned -> lynch any scum (4 alive, 1 scum)
N6: Poisonee dies, scum nightkill: 2 deaths
D7 start: 2 alive, 1 scum -> scum wins.
Well I mean assuming poison went off and assuming nonpoisoner kill D6. Why are you so sure poison went off?
His point is that it doesn't matter in regards to what you've proposed.
There's 7 alive right now:
IF: The Poisoner was blocked and we mislynch, then going into tonight there's 4 Town and 2 Scum. In the morning tomorrow, the Poisoner will have had the opportunity to poison one of the remaining 3 town that scum chooses to leave alive. At that point, even if we lynch the Poisoner, we'll enter the following night with 3 town and 1 Scum. That night the final scum will kill an unpoisoned player and that will be game as the following morning will dawn with just 1 Scum and 1 town.
IF: The Poisoner was not blocked and we "mislynch" the poisoned player today, see:
...then going into tonight there's 4 Town and 2 Scum. In the morning tomorrow, the Poisoner will have had the opportunity to poison one of the remaining 3 town that scum chooses to leave alive. At that point, even if we lynch the Poisoner, we'll enter the following night with 3 town and 1 Scum. That night the final scum will kill an unpoisoned player and that will be game as the following morning will dawn with just 1 Scum and 1 town.
Well shit no more beers for Swan after 10pm. Water a decent chunk of time considering that option. Clearly your math is correct.
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We're definitely not lynching Eevee today though. Eevee/DatSwan makes some sense yeah,kinda, but individually Eevee seems townie if only for the whole kerfuffle with Space and the timing and nature of his claim. They didn't know Tracke was even available, and Eevee claimed that second, pretty low in the draft.
What? It's entrie possible that Eevee is a scum Tracker. Not sure why that idea doesn't even appear here. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.
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The points you bring up regarding Eevee's lack of any breadcrumbing D2, as well as his play to stay silent on the PotI thing D3 are well made.
It's worth noting too that while I've argued it's unlikely for Eevee to be scum based on the end of day play yesterday (why wouldn't he and Space team up to avoid a Space lynch?) - it's been based mostly on a town!Swan theory. That is, with town!Swan, scum!Space & scum!Eevee could've joined RR/Faust/e to put Swan at 5 votes, requiring just a single player to switch for the win.
I mean it all depends. Scum!Eevee clearly settled for the long game by not using the Tracker claim to frame someone. In that mindset, it makes sense to first lynch a scumpartner and win by towncred on the next couple of days.
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Well, scum!Eevee could be a Tracker yeah, but
a) That means the scumteam ended up being Poisoner/Watcher/Goon/Tracker. DOn't think I'd go for two townie investigative roles (especially in Eevee's slot where likelihood of success was not huge) but sure.
b) Why does Eevee claim a "result" on his scumpartner early day 4 ? It put them both at the top of the claiming order, which I guess is nice when you're intending to claim truthfully, but prevents you from any attempt at framing someone, which in a lylo-ish situation, is pretty nice.
There's nothing individually clearing Eevee, but it's a combination of things that make him very likely to be town in my eyes.
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Well, scum!Eevee could be a Tracker yeah, but
a) That means the scumteam ended up being Poisoner/Watcher/Goon/Tracker. DOn't think I'd go for two townie investigative roles (especially in Eevee's slot where likelihood of success was not huge) but sure.
b) Why does Eevee claim a "result" on his scumpartner early day 4 ? It put them both at the top of the claiming order, which I guess is nice when you're intending to claim truthfully, but prevents you from any attempt at framing someone, which in a lylo-ish situation, is pretty nice.
There's nothing individually clearing Eevee, but it's a combination of things that make him very likely to be town in my eyes.
Well in this case it was clearly premeditated that they would not frame anyone, instead get some town points and carry the game until after that day. It's also definitely possible that scum did not plan ahead for LyLo considering how many players were still alive at that point.
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I agree that if Eevee is scum, then he planned the thing with Space. It's a bit of a weird plan though ? Now that we're here I can see how it would work out, but I don't know that it's one I really see scum coming up with.
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Alright, I've gotten what I wanted from most people I think, so let's talk.
Going into today, I thought we were definitely lynching DatSwan. Rereading him eroded that confidence a bit (kinda similar to faust's recent reread of him), but I still think he's the best lynch for today, probably. So now what I want to do is look at the alternatives: how likely are the scenarios in which DatSwan is town ?
Putting aside the Eevee scenarios for reasons explained above. It might be presumptuous, and certainly if we lynch scum and Eevee is alive today he should not be considered an IC by any means, but I'll take that chance for today.
faust/Galzria/Space/iguana
Bids:
4/8 (faust/Galzria) => #1, takes Poisoner
16 (Space) => #3, takes Watcher
42 (faust/Galzria) => #4, takes Rolecop/Roleblocker
3 (iguana) => #15, goes for Redirector and fails
The first problem here is that I kinda believe faust did go for Redirector just based on day 1, and I don't see how iguana could be in the Galzria slot because there's really no way to fail here (like, you're not going for 1-Shot Disabler or Last Recruit, in the scenarios in which Arch or Jimmm were é which I don't really believe in anyway) but other than that this is all looks plausible enough.
D1 Candidates voting: Galz votes for me while iguana votes for DatSwan, which, sure, they'd just go with what they think their townselves would do.
Days 1 to 3:
Space's reads at #569 have Galz as null, faust as townie, iguana as kinda scummy but not a lynch because of the claim.
Galz's D1 lynchpool at #636 includes 0 partners in this scenario.
#1096 has Galz citing faust as his third highest scum read after Eevee and LL, null on scum, "would investigate" iguana.
So far, sure. Very little meaningful interaction (no votes at all until D3), but enough here and there that it just looks kinda normal. Galz having no scum on his lynch list on D1 would be a thing, but iguana was out of the lynch pool anyway which makes it easier... really the scummiest interactions here are specifically between Space and Galz, but that's not specific to this scum team.
Day 4:
Galz has the typical approach to the Masons claim one would expect him to have, while faust goes on his little crusade. During which Galz complains no one took Dayvig (presumably because faust made for a very appealing candidate at that point). Pretty well done if it's fake, though I suppose scum!Galz could be frustrated with scum!faust too. Galz is otherwise hedgy on scum during this time. Really his #1562 is a giant hedge on everyone in the game save for the Masons.
#1646: Galz agrees with lynching VTs, which would be {scum!faust, scum!Galz, town!DatSwan, town!RR} here. I guess that'd be pretty ok for scum, though Poisoner is definitely in the lynch pool then.
Follows it up in #1653 by hedging some more on faust and RR, landing on Swan as the best lynch.
#1684: Galz supports the idea of scum going for a big outlier in their bids. Is now looking at RR/DatSwan for poisoner and e for most likely scum. Oh yeah.
#1701: Galz falls on his sword, votes me... I think faust is the poisoner in this scenario.
#1711: Sudden apparition of Space in Galz's lynchpool, essentially replacing LL. Could be that Galz is really thinking O and I are going to get him lynched and he needs to polish interactions ? A little strange really.
#1715: Now straight up calling the team as Swan/iguana/Space/e. Swan being the only one scum!Galz would really want to lynch here. I mean, he'd take e, and Space is better than the Poisoner, but still. Appropriately though, he does say Swan is the likely poisoner and his preferred lynch of the bunch.
#1743: Space thinks faust is not the poisoner (and in this scenario I do think he would be)... doesn't think e is a poisoner, kinda not taking big stances on others.
#1746: Space not opposed to lynching faust though.
#1759: faust finds Space and Galzria's bids (the roles they went for) scummy.
#1773: RR has a {Galz, e, Swan, faust}. Relevant because this probably means this scumteam wants to push DatSwan at this point.
#1838: O wants to lynch Space. Galz immediately follows suit. Not 100% sure why, if scum. The Masons votes were super important yesterday (something Galz quite clearly understood given his reaction to us voting him), so that's a pretty risky move. It works out though, since nothing happens with the Space wagon next (I'm still on Galz), and Galz ends up voting e.
#1855: Space propose a faust/Eevee/e/iguana scumteam, though they don't close the door on DatSwan. Hedges on Galzria when asked in #1861.
#1878: I vote faust, which means two townies are on faust and two townies are on Galz as this point. Things are not looking great for this scumteam there. Galz is still on Space at this point, faust and Space are not voting.
Then Eevee votes RR. An out for them maybe ?
Space comes up with a e scumslip, which Galz immediately sheeps (well, Space did not vote but he did), but then swiftly unvotes because e was tracked N1.
#1903: Space votes faust, and Galz soon follows. O and I had stated an unwillingness to lynch faust though.
#1911: O switches to Space.
Then faust goes for DatSwan, Eevee follows O and so do I. So now it's Space at 3 votes and faust at 4. RR goes on DatSwan, but Space does not follow him, instead going on... Galz. This is where this team kinda stops making sense ? Like, Space has ample reasons to go DatSwan here: O and I have never said anything indicating we wouldn't want to lynch him after all, so we could be swayed maybe. There's already a townie here in RR, so the Masons or e (very willing to lynch Swan)+Eevee is a likely win for scum here. Very possible. Instead she goes for Galz, which means... well, there's the fact that e stated he wouldn't lynch either fo Galz/Space, so it could simply be protecting faust, and hoping e will go on Swan himself and open it up for scum.
Whatever the reason, we then have Eevee switching froone to the other and Qvist voting Space, Eevee coming back and putting Space at L-1, at which point it's basically over. e and DatSwan are still fighting, but scum's accepted the bus, and faust is just absent anyway.
Well. this is a team that makes sense until it doesn't. Full commited partners until they aren't and start bussing like mad. Which... I'm not sure why ? If this is the team, I really don't get why there's not a stronger push on DatSwan at the end. Scum!Galz is aware of how his early D3 looks in this scenario (very very bad), it's not like he can necessarily expect to ride it out till the end. faust can, maybe. I guess that's the plan for them, bus faust knowing full well that O and I aren't going for it so it's safe, and hope that buys enough cred to faust to win ? I don't think they foresse how bad DatSwan looks at the end there, but they can certainly think there's a mislynch there.
So... a possible team with an "all-in on poisoner!faust" plan, I suppose. Not incredibly likely, but can't be dismissed.
Well, that took some time. The others should be a bit quicker, but later.
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Regarding DatSwan, it is relevant to take into account e's reads:
I will lynch faust or datswan
I think it's safe to say that e blocked one of us. If he blocked me, no info. If he blocked DatSwan, then
A) DatSwan did not perform the nightkill, making him less likely scum.
B) DatSwan/RR is impossible.
Unfortunately, we cannot dismiss e blocking me. But it does make the scenarios where DatSwan is scum less likely.
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Well, I think the scenarios in which DatSwan is scum mostly have him as Poisoner. I do think e is relatively likely to have blocked him, yeah.
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Or I suppose scum could have a Roleblocker. Not sure how this can be factored in, it makes things complicated and I am not sure how Roleblockers would be resolved.
PPE: Okay, but the Poisoner could still also perform the nightkill. But yeah, I think that's unlikely given e's suspicions. Okay, nevermind that.
On the other hand, we will get some solid information on poisoning tomorrow (whether or not they succeeded), so maybe all other things being equal it would be better to gun for the non-Poisoner? Then again, if Poisoner has been blocked and we lynch them today, we get an extra lynch. Phew, this is hard.
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Yeah, I don't think it changes how we lynch today, especially because we don't know who e targeted. I mean I'd bet on DatSwan, but he could easily have targeted you or even Galz.
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MOD QUESTION - IF A ROLE BLOCK IS SUCCESSFUL IN BLOCKING THEIR TARGET, AND THE TRACKER TRACKS THE BLOCKED PLAYER, WHAT MESSAGE DOES THE TRACKER RECEIVE?
Thank you for your question. The inquisitorial process is how we arrive at the greater truth of our existence. This is exactly the sort of work we are doing here as part of the Dharma Initiative.
The Tracker learns the names of all players targeted by his target (Player A). If Player A is roleblocked, then Player A will not be taking any actions, and therefore, Player A will not target anyone. The Tracker would receive the result: "No Result".
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faust/RR/Space/iguana
Bids:
4/8: faust/RR => #1: Poisoner
16: Space => #3: Watcher
35: faust/RR => #7: Roleblocker/Rolecop
3: iguana => #15: Failed Two-Shot Redirector
Again, don't see RR's slot being a VT one for scum. RR claims to have gone for Watcher, which obviously scum didn't do... I guess maybe JK ? Most likely is iguana's spot being the one claimed by faust though.
Days 1-3: Big difference here is that we actually had a wagon on scum on day 1 in this scenario.
Starts at #300 with your truly saying we need to lynch the lurkers because the game is stalling, and voting RR. I elaborate on meta, and people start sheeping: Eevee, iguana, gkrieg. Eevee then unvotes and the wagon seems to be losing momentum with RR defending himself and Eevee switching to IDPTG.
At this point faust comes in with a Chainsaw Defense*, voting Eevee without really adressing RR himself.
Qvist then votes RR, but gkrieg unvotes (Eevee developping as an alternate wagon), but other people come in and it ends up looking like this (yeah the masons are in green) :
RR (6): Qvist, DatSwan, Galz, faust, Arch, Eevee
gkrieg (3): e, Space, LL
DatSwan (2): RR, iguana
WW (2): O, Teproc
Eevee (1): gkrieg
LaLight (1): Jimmmmm
O (1): Witherweaver
That's the wagon's peak. In this case faust would be the only on-wagon, which would be quite reasonable. It never felt to me that it was very likely that this would go all the way (RR is just too easy a mislynch, and he almost never gets lynched D1 because people are aware of that, it's later that people default to him). Overall it's all pretty consistent with this team. faust unvotes and then comes back to RR again, with the wagon reaching 5 votes at #626, but it never really gains enough momentum to go farther than that
RR has very few interactions with his would-be-partners, and none of it is convincingly non-partnery.
Day 4:
During the claiming RR volunteers his belief of both Space and Eevee, calls the faust v masons thing "nonsense", then claims to have gone for Watcher and mentions it as a reason to believe Space. He never really adresses Space's alignment independently from their claim though.
#1726: RR says lynch preferences are faust>Swan>Galz.
#1734: Now he links his claims to Space being town specifically, when e says Space is scum but RR town (by calling a faust/space/datswan team), and alter seems doubtful Space would go for scum!Watcher twice.
#1743: Space hedges on both faust and RR.
#1746: Space insists on faust not being the poisoner but seems amenable to lynching him.
#1757: RR says faust should get lynched regardless of poisoner stuff (I'm paraphrasing but given the context that's what he means).
#1773: RR's pool is {Galz, e, Swan, faust}. faust is quite unhappy with that.
#1855: Space theorizes a faust/Eevee/e/iguana team with Swan a possibility. Right, so since I haven't mentioned it yet: clearly RR must be the poisoner here, given both Space and RR's willingness to bus faust.
Bit of a back and forth between Space and faust about a number of things. Mostly Space saying we should lynch faust and not them, and faust asking why he should be lynched at all. This is when e and Qvist are on faust and Galz is on Space, Swan on Galz. So Swan is again the obvious mislynch for this scumteam right ?
#1873 faust's pool is {Space, DatSwan, RR} which makes sense I think. He's being bussed, so clearly he can afford to include his partners, but he also has what would be the easiest-seeming mislynch in there in case that pans out. His reasoning before that casts some aspersions on e as well. Mostly interested in RR as a potential Mason partner. Stll no vote from faust though.
#1903: Space commits to the faust bus with a case and a vote.
#1916: faust defends himself (he has 4 votes but the masons aren't voting so he doesn't look that likely to get lynched unless there's a change of heart on our parts) and votes RR... then immediately votes DatSwan upon realizing scum!Masons could have quickhammered him. A townie reasoning, but convenient in this scenario.
And that's basically it. RR and faust disappear after that, both of their votes are on DatSwan.
Space then tries to convince people to lynch either DatSwan or e (hey, that makes sense here), e votes Swan but the votes simply aren't there. At most they can get 4 together (faust, RR, Space and e on Swan) but they essentially need the Masons.
*That's when you vote for someone voting for your partner. It's a more sophisitcated version of OMGUS.
Ok, this is actually a plausible scumteam. Nothing super obvious, but everything works for it. RR and faust are absent at the end but their votes are exactly what they're most likely to be useful for this team... I mean there is an argument to be made that Galz would have been a better mislynch to go for here. That's really the only thing that's off here: I was voting Galz for a lot of D4, with O occasionally there too , and Galz was always in RR and faust's lynchpools.
So I think this one is more likely than faust/Galz/Space/iguana, but less likely than the DatSwan teams. The thing about the DatSwan teams that makes them credible, especially a Galz/Swan/Space/iguana team, is that they never had a good mislynch target. faust looked like it for a while, but then that couldn't really happen without O and I, and they had a somewhat similar problem with RR really.
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Maybe this is wishful thinking, because it comes down to "O and I had decent reads and that's why we lynched scum", which is rather self-serving. But surely scum doesn't go into D4 thinking they're going to bus. They're probably ready to bus a non-Poisoner partner if needed (which is indeed what happened), but not enthusiastic about it. So once it became clear that O and I weren't going to be lynched, they had to be looking at our scum reads and trying to exploit them where they could right ? But no wagon other than Space (scum) and faust (whom we didn't want to lynch) ever got to 4 votes. Galz got to 3 (Teproc, Eevee, Space) at one point but that's it.
How does that happen, really ? Two explanations for me:
- Galz/Swan/Space/iguana team: faust looks like a plausible mislynch for a while but nope, and then they don't want to risk an openly concerted effort on RR or e or Eevee knowing at more than half the town will oppose it, so they just let the mislynch happen and try to act as their town selves would.
- Swan/Space/iguana + faust or RR (or Eevee even) : They try to mislynch Galz, but can't get Qvist or e to follow.
The town is essentially split in two on faust (with e and at least one of the other townies willing but not the Masons) and Galz (Masons are in but none of the other townies except maybe Eevee at one point, but too late), which makes it just hard for scum to get a mislynch through, whichever of them is scum (if any is). They can try RR/e as their best best but no townie is enthusiastic about that so it's a bit risky.
Now if Swan is town, the situation is wholly different. Swan was in basically everyone's lynch pool the whole day.
O and I were not prioritizing him but generally willing. Galz might argue this wasn't obvious, but... I mean I did post my lynchpool once or twice, and Swan was in it. If scum sees me post a lynchpool with Scum/Scum/DatSwan, they'll notice it. Rereading O, he admittedly never had such a post (he actually started out suspecting Swan more than I did in D4, but I suppose that's irrelevant)
RR had Swan in his pool the whole time.
Eevee... actually he has an interesting exchange with O (1936-1938) asking O what he thinks of Swan, to which O responds "as scummy as Space but more scummy people want to lynch Swan", which Eevee seems to agree with.
That could be where an Eevee scumteam works actually, especially Eevee/faust. But Eevee is just individually super townie, which DatSwan is not (he's somewhat townie D1 which counted for a lot then but less now).
Yeah, I think I'm just ready at this point.
vote: DatSwan
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I guess I can unvote for now, no rush. But unless someone has a very compelling argument, I think we're lynching DatSwan.
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I guess I can unvote for now, no rush. But unless someone has a very compelling argument, I think we're lynching DatSwan.
Do you think RR and DatSwan can both be scum? That is hard for me to see and I just find RR so scummy, whereas the main thing about DatSwan is this D4 stuff, which hold some merit, but also contains a good bit of WIFOM.
What about O? If you are united on this, there is probably no point in fighting it, as a lynch against you can only succeed with scum's support.
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I dont think RR and DatSwan is a likely pairing at all no. I think you or Galz is the other scum. Maaybe Eevee. But I don't think RR is likely at all to be DatSwan's partner. It's all worth reevaluating the next day of course, but I'm somewhat likely not to be there for that anyway. But in voting DatSwan, I am taking a risk with RR-based scumteams mostly yes.
O has been quiet for a few days. It's partly because I'm waiting for him that I unvoted actually.
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What do you find scummy about RR though ? There's a bunch of little things (his reaction to the wagon D1, his "Oh no we're doomed" comment on D4) that makes him seem townie to me.
I don't think you've done a reread oh fim yet ?
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And yeah, what's scummy about DatSwan is mostly day 4 (though I think some of the D5 stuff has also been scummy), but that's by far the most relevant today. In any non-RR scum scenario, scum was completely fine until D4 (well, D3 was a scum lynch but not one that involved actual choices other than quicklynching or not). Even with scum!RR, I don't think scum was ever that worried there.
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Whelp. Gotta be honest, kind of saw this one coming. Really the only thing I can say that I haven't said already is regarding what Teproc just posted about this being mainly based on my D4. More specifically, my EOD 4 actions.
I did not think Space was Skum, and I was wrong. More importantly, when the heat is put on me with the E! switch, and E! has stated a time stamp at which he will hammer Space... If I were Skum why would I not hammer? What would my angle be there?
I can't control the actions of other people, but before any decisions are made I would suggest going back and looking at the end of day 4 with the thought "Why wouldn't Skum!Swan bus hammer Space?"
What is the plus side? If I am skum with Space then I am risking a Skum lynch (me) to save a Skumbuddy (Space), but then next day Skum!Swan or Skum!Space is dead and we are in a worse spot in regards to how the Skum Team looks in the eyes of others (i.e. exactly the situation we are in now. If I am skum, by not acting, I guaranteed Space gets lynched and I look skummier as hell today. Why would I do that?)
Whatever, broken record at this point lol so I will cut it there.
From this point forward, I will only divulge thoughts/information as it is requested of me. As its game over if I die, I see no upside of giving Skum more opportunities to succeed tomorrow by creating similar circumstances to EOD yesterday for them to act on.
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faust did reread RR, I see it now. I see a lot of "scummy" comments for things I find null or townie, so I don't know what to tell you there.
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I'm with Teproc on this. Datswan hasn't been the scummiest today but his actions yesterday require serious misplay as town and make relatively perfect sense as scum.
I don't think Datswan RR is an impossible pairing. I think RR has also played quite mediocre if he's town -- but that seems to be more expected, and its generally more expected of severe lurkers. I also think Datswan-Faust, Datswan-Eevee are both still eminently possible. Galz perhaps less so.
I don't agree on the e Roleblocker analysis. There's very little reason to assume that e's reads remain constant after a space!Scum flip.
The reality is if Datswan is town then we'd be infinitely better off if he did a reasonable wagon analysis and said "hm -- Qvist Galz Eevee doesn't make much sense and Qvist is super townie looking". If he hammered before e, we'd have 3 of <Qvist, O, Teproc, Person who hammered space at deadline> alive since e was poisoned, and be substantially better off.
None of that is wonderfully relevant though since I really do think the simple explanation here is the right one: Datswan wanted a timeout victory (OK, pseudo-victory).
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I'm with Teproc on this. Datswan hasn't been the scummiest today but his actions yesterday require serious misplay as town and make relatively perfect sense as scum.
I don't think Datswan RR is an impossible pairing. I think RR has also played quite mediocre if he's town -- but that seems to be more expected, and its generally more expected of severe lurkers. I also think Datswan-Faust, Datswan-Eevee are both still eminently possible. Galz perhaps less so.
I don't agree on the e Roleblocker analysis. There's very little reason to assume that e's reads remain constant after a space!Scum flip.
The reality is if Datswan is town then we'd be infinitely better off if he did a reasonable wagon analysis and said "hm -- Qvist Galz Eevee doesn't make much sense and Qvist is super townie looking". If he hammered before e, we'd have 3 of <Qvist, O, Teproc, Person who hammered space at deadline> alive since e was poisoned, and be substantially better off.
None of that is wonderfully relevant though since I really do think the simple explanation here is the right one: Datswan wanted a timeout victory (OK, pseudo-victory).
Nope. and it never happens because of E!.
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I don't agree on the e Roleblocker analysis. There's very little reason to assume that e's reads remain constant after a space!Scum flip.
He did think Space was scum before the flip, so I don't see things changing because of it. Anyway Swan could still be scum even in the face of that.
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I'm going to be around in the hours before the deadline and will vote then. I don't think I have time or energy to make another case for RR over DatSwan, I guess I just have to hope you know better.
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Well, sorry town if we're wrong.
vote: DatSwan
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Well, sorry town if we're wrong.
vote: DatSwan
Feel like you are mis-reading friend. Now "we", just "you" :)
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vote: Datswan
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Do we 100% lose if we're wrong ? I guess we still get to lynch the poisoner if e blocked right (gonna go ahead and discount the possibility of DatSwan being poisoned)
7 alive, 2 scum
-1 mislynch + 1 NK
5 alive, 2 scum
Lynch poisoner, lose two townies
2 alive, 1 scum
I guess we do.
PPE: Well, O and I at least.
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And by "we do" I mean "we do lose if we're wrong".
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Do we 100% lose if we're wrong ? I guess we still get to lynch the poisoner if e blocked right (gonna go ahead and discount the possibility of DatSwan being poisoned)
7 alive, 2 scum
-1 mislynch + 1 NK
5 alive, 2 scum
Lynch poisoner, lose two townies
2 alive, 1 scum
I guess we do.
PPE: Well, O and I at least.
lol I am joking obviously and cmon that is the same thing.
Also there are only seven alive right now, not nine :P
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7 alive including 2 scum is how that's supposed to read.
How is it the same thing ? I don't get it.
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Do we 100% lose if we're wrong ? I guess we still get to lynch the poisoner if e blocked right (gonna go ahead and discount the possibility of DatSwan being poisoned)
7 alive, 2 scum
-1 mislynch + 1 NK
5 alive, 2 scum
Lynch poisoner, lose two townies
2 alive, 1 scum
I guess we do.
PPE: Well, O and I at least.
lol I am joking obviously and cmon that is the same thing.
Also there are only seven alive right now, not nine :P
Re read it nvm, see where you were going. Issue is you are assuming that tonight poisoner dies. Otherwise when 5 alive with 2 skum, even if you lynch poisoner, thats 3-1, one NK, thats 2-1, then someone wakes up dead, thats 1-1
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7 alive including 2 scum is how that's supposed to read.
How is it the same thing ? I don't get it.
This is to say "you and O" = "you".
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Yes that's what I'm saying, the "I guess we do" was unclear. But yes, we lose if we're wrong about you.
PPE: Right, that crazy language where "you" can mean one or several persons. Tssk.
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The fact that you're relatively chipper about it makes me hopeful about either
a) our chances here
b) your chances of being a very pleasant mafia player in the long term. Taking a mislynch for the loss is never pleasant (on either side, but especially on the mislynchee's side).
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by the way just in case you are somehow right and I am poisoned or something and the game continues tomorrow somehow...
one of you should unvote me temporarily to force reads and votes because as soon as they are both online at the same time right now its day end.
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If you have a complaint, make sure to write it on a piece of paper and insert it into the pneumatic tube at the bottom of the Pearl station. We read all your complaints and take them very seriously. Namaste.
Vote Count 5.3
DatSwan (3): RoadRunner7671, Teproc, O
RoadRunner7671 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): Galzria, faust, Eevee
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends on October 19th at 4 PM.
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The fact that you're relatively chipper about it makes me hopeful about either
a) our chances here
b) your chances of being a very pleasant mafia player in the long term. Taking a mislynch for the loss is never pleasant (on either side, but especially on the mislynchee's side).
well I am gonna go with b), but I get your point.
Also disregard previous idea... I just realized one of them is already on me.
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by the way just in case you are somehow right and I am poisoned or something and the game continues tomorrow somehow...
one of you should unvote me temporarily to force reads and votes because as soon as they are both online at the same time right now its day end.
Who's "they" btw ?
There's been more than enough time for rereads and opinions.
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by the way just in case you are somehow right and I am poisoned or something and the game continues tomorrow somehow...
one of you should unvote me temporarily to force reads and votes because as soon as they are both online at the same time right now its day end.
Who's "they" btw ?
There's been more than enough time for rereads and opinions.
I have kind of already written this down several times :P
But summary - I believe it is probably RR and Galz. Used to think RR and Eevee, but now that just seems paranoid.
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Aside from faust, others are also fine with lynching you (you're first on Galz's list and Eevee is on RR or Swan) so I don't think waiting would change anything.
PPE : I know, sorry, I wasn't sure which of Eevee/Galz it was.
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I'll consider unvoting if someone posts and becomes IC-fied by not hammering. That could be relevant mabe.
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by the way just in case you are somehow right and I am poisoned or something and the game continues tomorrow somehow...
one of you should unvote me temporarily to force reads and votes because as soon as they are both online at the same time right now its day end.
Who's "they" btw ?
There's been more than enough time for rereads and opinions.
I have kind of already written this down several times :P
But summary - I believe it is probably RR and Galz. Used to think RR and Eevee, but now that just seems paranoid.
Closely followed, removing RR by Faust!Galz.
PPE
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Aside from faust, others are also fine with lynching you (you're first on Galz's list and Eevee is on RR or Swan) so I don't think waiting would change anything.
PPE : I know, sorry, I wasn't sure which of Eevee/Galz it was.
ha. Not trying to change anything. Been figuring this was the end for the last 9 days. Just trying to make sure the most info is gained out of the situation.
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Actually guess that doesn't matter.
Re running the math and yeah it makes sense:
5-2
Swan mis lynch but also poisoned = 4-2
NK = 3-2
No Poison death = D6 start 3-2
Lynch Poisoner = 3-1
NK = 2-1
But, POS still got a shot off night 5 and as they won't poison themselves it is all irrelevant because Day 7 starts 1-1.
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Hi. Just got off work call. Hammer?
I want more time to reread. But I've also made my lynch preference clear. If this is a town loss, I'll take the blame. But Space either played masterfully, faust/RR is the scum team, or Swan is scum.
vote: DatSwan
Second game together? Hammering my housemate. We got Raptor game 1. Did we get you game 2?
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This is a weird feeling. I have never had this yet. I feel like Rob Stark in GoT while he is just kneeling there or something.
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Galz, do you win ?
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damn it Galz ruined my joke.
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nah you guys are good.
Great game!
Thank you so much Robz for a great set up this was a blast!
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8) 8) 8)
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nah you guys are good.
Great game!
Thank you so much Robz for a great set up this was a blast!
Thanks. Pleasure playing with you, and I think (assuming you're not trolling here) you played a very good game actually. You were one of my strongest town reads on D1.
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wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo we don't lose wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
on the downside, me and Teproc's secondary wincons are probably screwed.
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wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo we don't lose wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
on the downside, me and Teproc's secondary wincons are probably screwed.
e might have saved one of us though.
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wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo we don't lose wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
on the downside, me and Teproc's secondary wincons are probably screwed.
e might have saved one of us though.
we can only hope.
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Yeah I really enjoy playing with Datswan. When I came online I was pretty sure I was gonna move my vote because I was getting more and more convinced he was town.
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Should we post our theoretical reads or let them figure it out? Not like we know any more than town tomorrow.
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Hi. Just got off work call. Hammer?
I want more time to reread. But I've also made my lynch preference clear. If this is a town loss, I'll take the blame. But Space either played masterfully, faust/RR is the scum team, or Swan is scum.
vote: DatSwan
Second game together? Hammering my housemate. We got Raptor game 1. Did we get you game 2?
Wait when did Eevee cease to exist
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Should we post our theoretical reads or let them figure it out? Not like we know any more than town tomorrow.
Sure. I'm not actually sure if I like Galz or faust better for Swan's partner. As I said to you earlier, I fully expected scum!Galz to bus here.
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I do think Eevee is less likely because of general towniness, but it'll certainly be worth checking into just in case. RR I think is the least likely partner for DatSwan in general.
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How about you call me scummy so that I won't get night killed then tomorrow you can be like 'JK, RR's totally town and can hang out with me and O now.'
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Hi. Just got off work call. Hammer?
I want more time to reread. But I've also made my lynch preference clear. If this is a town loss, I'll take the blame. But Space either played masterfully, faust/RR is the scum team, or Swan is scum.
vote: DatSwan
Second game together? Hammering my housemate. We got Raptor game 1. Did we get you game 2?
Wait when did Eevee cease to exist
?
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How about you call me scummy so that I won't get night killed then tomorrow you can be like 'JK, RR's totally town and can hang out with me and O now.'
The problem is that it's pretty likely I die, see. You wouldn't want to be mislynched for the loss because of me, would you ?
Also, we never listen to dead town anyway.
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How about you call me scummy so that I won't get night killed then tomorrow you can be like 'JK, RR's totally town and can hang out with me and O now.'
You're pretty scummy though, WTF was that "I thought there were 2 scum alive" crap :P
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How about you call me scummy so that I won't get night killed then tomorrow you can be like 'JK, RR's totally town and can hang out with me and O now.'
You're pretty scummy though, WTF was that "I thought there were 2 scum alive" crap :P
That was me thinking there were 2 scum left...
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How about you call me scummy so that I won't get night killed then tomorrow you can be like 'JK, RR's totally town and can hang out with me and O now.'
You're pretty scummy though, WTF was that "I thought there were 2 scum alive" crap :P
Contradicted like two posts later by Galz quoting a post where RR clearly knew there were three on D4, too. That was funny.
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Vote Count 5.Final
DatSwan (4): RoadRunner7671, Teproc, O, Galzria
RoadRunner7671 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (2): faust, Eevee
With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.
DatSwan has been crossed off Jacob's List. He was Juliet Burke, the Others-aligned Poisoner. He was also a Candidate.
Night 5 begins now and ends in 48 hours, or possibly earlier if all night actions are received and there are no objections. (If you do object, speak up in your QT.)
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Emergency. I repeat. This is an island-wide emergency. The Hostiles have broken the truce. The Swan is in lockdown. The Tempest is being deactivated. All non-essential personnel, report to Pala Ferry for evacuation. Everyone else, report to the Arrow for assignments. Namaste. I hope you're happy now, Jacob.
Eevee was found dead of a gunshot wound to the chest. He was Eloise Hawking, the Crash Survivors-aligned Tracker. He was also a Candidate.
O succumbed to poison. He was Jin Kwon, the Crash Survivors-aligned Mason.
Thread unlocked early. Day 6 begins now.
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Vote Count 6.0
Not Voting (4): faust, RoadRunner7671, Teproc, Galzria
With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends Thursday, October 26 at 5:00 PM.
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Argh. e did not, in fact, roleblock DatSwan. Now I have to get it right between you three. Ugh.
I guess no lynching does nothing good since I just get killed and no one learns anything.
Well, I'll have some rereading ahead of me I suppose.
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Early start!
A) We're in MyLo
B) vote: faust
C) QT dump inc next post:
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This will be fun!
Right now Eevee and I definitely look worse than Faust and RR for lynching Space D4 over Swan. Both of us form a scum team with Swan and Space that couldn't easily win D4 too - obviously as Teproc notes "Galz as the 4th had nowhere to push at deadline D4". That's true. And if Eevee is scum then I'm the only push target for him: Yet the only two showing real interest in lynching me then were Swan and Space.
If Eevee is scum, I expect him to shoot whichever Mason isn't potentially poisoned. If they are both dead morning of D6 we're in MyLo with RR/Faust/Galz/Eevee. He could at that point claim a tracker result on me as scum and attempt to win. I'll need to watch for that.
If e successfully blocked Swan N4, then we're NOT in LyLo anymore and we can afford a mislynch as one of the Masons will still be alive as well. Here Eevee can't set up a 1v1.
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I'll need to look at where each player was D5 here - but I seem to recall RR pushing for Swan pretty hard most of the day. Bonus townie points for him from that.
Faust definitely wanted to lynch RR first. Bonus scummy points for him.
Eevee I don't recall exactly - but I DO remember noting at one point him countering something I said by about his desire (or lack thereof) to lynch Swan D4 by claiming that he was in fact very willing to lynch Swan. As I noted in a response, words now are not words then, and they're certainly not actions.
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On the topic of Datswan wanting to go 1v1 with me D4 - On the one hand, if we're both scum, he's obviously angling to buy one of us a ton of town points. Whomever between us gets lynched would flip scum and the other would be skipping away (at least, for that night. Things change quickly in Mafia).
But he was the Poisoner. If he loses that the downside for us as a team seems harsh. And it should be noted in context that the whole reason he went down this warpath and crusade against me was over my pushing against him D4 - Teproc himself noted that scum probably didn't come in to the day planning on bussing, so this all seems extremely unnecessary from Swan and I as scummates.
Further, if I'm town (which I am), rather than attempting to setup some potential town cred down the road at the risk of lynching the Poisoner that day - Swan was playing to win right there. He knew the Masons had a strong desire to see me dead, so he knew he would probably win that potential matchup. It was reasonable at the time to assume that he could get me lynched, and at the end of the day... it's risk vs reward: The reward for scum!scum is nowhere near enough justification against the risk compared to scum!town.
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the flip side... I don't think Eevee can claim a result really, can he? I mean... the only way he reasonably wins here as scum is to sell a scum Roleblocker? There's no way scum kill Mason tonight and don't Roleblock him if they can. If Eevee is town and scum doesn't have a Roleblocker then really... they have to kill Eevee, not a Mason, right? That would be nice...ish. With Eevee dead things look much worse for me - and if Swan's poison DID go through, then we're in MyLo with me voting Space over Swan D4 - something I would DEFINITELY do as their scummate.
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Man, I'm starting to hope Eevee is scum or there IS a scum roleblocker. And I'm -REALLY- hoping Swan was blocked N4!
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I mean... I don't THINK I'll be lynched tomorrow unless Eevee is town and dies tonight. And then it might be tough - especially if Teproc is left alive and O is not. Right now it would require scum!faust or scum!RR to really flip their read on me and start going for my lynch - something I'm inclined to think they'll be hesitant to do unless they have support
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On the other hand, they could really surprise me and kill me tonight (lol) and save me all this uncertainty!
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So, right now, based on a number of things, my lynch preference is:
Faust > Eevee > RR
With the caveat that a lot could change regarding Eevee tonight...
Strikes against faust:
Space watching him N1 feels like a Partner move. Who else do you watch here? Faust is arguably a likely target for Night Actions (as town or scum himself), and on the really off chance somebody (Eevee) tracked Space N1 it's an easy argument that he's a logical watch target. With no information I think scum watches scum N1 most of the time.
Space's VC in #1120: Either all 3 scum were on LL (possible, yes), or Faust is scum. All the non-voters were either town or scum (iguana), and the only other people off the LL wagon at the time are also town.
Faust and RR are the only two players that split the IDPTG and LL wagons 2/2 for scum, something I think is more likely than not.
Faust was on the town lynch D1, and then has not been on a single scum lynch D2, D3, D4 or D5. That's hard to do when so many of them were decided lynches when they happened (LL/Iguana/Swan) - that is, there was almost no chance anybody else was getting lynched instead of them at the time they were lynched. Space was perfectly good. Faust has been perfectly bad.
In Space's #1855, they suggest a scum team of Iguana/e/Eevee/Faust - I do not believe this to be an all town team (minus the already lynched Iguana). This makes RR fairly unlikely to be the final scum.
Datswan and Faust both wanted RR lynched D6 - if they're the final scums together in a 7 player game needing 4 to lynch, they know they makeup half of the needed votes. Something scum did NOT do D4 (and perhaps should have), was show a level on consolidarity around each other. They played it open and bussed when/where needed. They didn't work together to try and strongarm a lynch. Following the failure in that with Space being lynched, I absolutely can see a scenario where they decide to go for the win D5 by pushing together.
As I mentioned during my rereads on D5 for Space, D4 Space spent a decent amount of time considering faust for scum - but noting often that he probably wasn't the poisoner (and he wasn't) - The following quote in particular:
"Even if faust isn't the poisoner, we still win if we take out a scum today and the poisoner tomorrow, once we've had one more night of info-gathering" - It feels like Scum!Watcher!Space is trying to setup not!Poisoner!Scum!Faust to be lynched (while also exploring other town lynch options) - in particular, it feel like Space is looking ahead to providing fake-results after buying some town cred to push for the win. Why not just push for the win here? Well, I think Space was doing that too with other players. I don't think Space went all-town for their push targets because I think Space wants to appear natural and unforced - and I think Space would feel forced to push only non-scummates. It's possible Eevee is the scummate here instead, but it really feels at times like Space knew faust was scum, and knew that he wasn't the poisoner at that.
D1 Swan was having trouble finding reasons to vote and faust posted "You don't need a solid scum read to vote. All you need is to pretend you do." This feels a lot like coaching a first time scummy.
D5 Swan wanted to lynch RR and RR wanted to lynch Swan. I don't see scum, running down to their final 2, setting up to double bus each other and not go for town (and the win).
So... yeah. Faust. There's more, but I have work to do. There is a bit of conf. bias in here, places where I'm looking for him to be scummy etc - and I haven't fully reread Swan yet with the knowledge that he's scum... but I'm more and more convinced RR is NOT the last scum, and that leaves faust and Eevee.
The points against Eevee though are also quite strong. I'll want to look over bidding as well to see if anything makes sense. If Eevee ends up dead tomorrow though I think it makes it really easy for me from a "who's scum" perspective - if not from a "avoid being lynched" perspective.
It's interesting. I generally exude a lot of confidence about not being lynched early in the game. Cockiness almost. I feel like pushing against it even being a real threat or consideration helps defuse people from thinking that they can lynch me. But it's a very different story when in a situation like I've been in lately with Teproc and end game scenario's. I've felt like I've had to work REALLY hard to avoid being lynched and costing town the game. Normally I don't focus on that (and instead try and find scum)... here it's been really tough.
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Bids:
1. DatSwan (4 or 8): Poisoner
2. WW (8 or 15): Failed Poisoner (Bid from last game, won as scum at Draft #4)
3. Space (16): Watcher
4. Galzria (42): VT, Failed Poisoner
5. Teproc (7): Mason
6. LaLight (14): Jailkeeper
7. RR (35): VT, Failed Watcher
8. Jimmmm (52 to 72): 2nd Day-IC
9. e (73): Barracks, JoaT (Unchoson Options: Godfather, Investigation Immune)
10. Iguana (23): VT, Failed Barracks/Jailkeeper/Bomb
11. Gkrieg (23): Redirector
12. Qvist (5): PotI
13. Eevee (5): Tracker
14. O (3): VT, Failed Last Recruit
15. faust (3): VT, Failed Redirector
16. IDPTG (3): VT, Failed ??
17. Archetype/Chairs (3): N3 Forensics
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Scum bid possabilities:
Swan: {4/8}, Space: 16, Iguana: 23, ?? {35, 5, 3}.
I'm going to say 4 for Swan from now on (although I suspect he bid 8) as it and 8 are functionally the same thing here.
{4/16/23/35}
35 is a good bid for scum here (RR) because it's an outlier. It's pretty much a guarenteed middle-of-the-pack bid, and has a very low chance to be doubled on. Decent position, and good knowledge come with this bid.
{4/16/23/3}
{4/16/23/5}
Functionally these are both about the same. Both are 1-off a Lost Number, on the low end of the spectrum. Neither were bid on in the first roll of the game, and both were reasonable bids from a scum perspective. The bigger question is in town!Eevee's spot (Draft #13), is Tracker what you go for? I could see scum thinking they're unlikely to get much (although I would've gone for Roleblocker from that spot as scum), so they take a shot in the dark for a townie role (Tracker) and get it.
On the other hand there, faust could have taken Roleblocker from his spot pretty uncontested, and claiming to have bid after a dead PR makes for a pretty safe play. It's also possible that scum!faust actually did bid on Redirector and failed to get it.
The last option to consider here is that I still have Iguana wrong below, and that Eevee/faust are actually #10. In Eevee's case, it's conceivable that he went for Tracker from #10 - certainly a towny-ish bid (then, so was Space and Watcher). If Faust is #10, then Iguana probably did go Redirector and fail to get it - and Faust is probably a Roleblocker.
What I didn't really talk about here is what RR would be if he's scum? Roleblocker seems the most likely, but I suppose there are other options? Nothing I think that greatly impact us. If RR is scum though, it's very likely that he IS a PR.
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Stop what you're doing. QT quoting is not allowed. Don't know if it qualifies but unless you checkced with Robz first you should not do more of this.
PPE: Too Late I guess.
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Stop what you're doing. QT quoting is not allowed. Don't know if it qualifies but unless you checkced with Robz first you should not do more of this.
PPE: Too Late I guess.
It's my personal QT and is all my own stuff. I could literally type out each and post by hand here. But if you're right you're right.
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Stop what you're doing. QT quoting is not allowed. Don't know if it qualifies but unless you checkced with Robz first you should not do more of this.
PPE: Too Late I guess.
It's my personal QT and is all my own stuff. I could literally type out each and post by hand here. But if you're right you're right.
It's complicated. NO point discussing it really, we'll see what Robz does about it.
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Stop what you're doing. QT quoting is not allowed. Don't know if it qualifies but unless you checkced with Robz first you should not do more of this.
PPE: Too Late I guess.
It's my personal QT and is all my own stuff. I could literally type out each and post by hand here. But if you're right you're right.
That is, I could've had it all pre-typed in forum posts and ready to go just as easily. It's not MOD information of any sort and comes directly from me unaltered in any fashion by another person. I am the source and the conversations are with myself.
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Quoting from personal QT is okay. No quoting from group QT.
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A note about QTs: It is illegal to quote directly from any QT into the main thread or another QT, other than a personal QT.
I took that to mean personal qt quoting is ok
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PPE- that.
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Last one:
Oh, strong-ish defense for me:
If Swan knew my alignment (argument: I'm Mafia), why would he investigated me N1 looking for the SK? To make my being scum less likely amongst other Candidates? In this scenario scum represents 50% of the Candidate thread (Me/Iguana/Swan). That's not really a concern. But knocking out SK possibilities amongst the other Candidates SHOULD be.
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Yes but, well, there's a history theree. It involves me ! M72 if you want to read that. We ended up deciding that QT quoting was forbidden because a number of players (myself included) would feel forced to do it as scum (because I, like you I think, love nothing more than yammering to myself in my QT as town) and that it would just be overall annoying. There was a lot of controversy about it actually, but there you go for the context.
PPE: Ok, well, good. I generally think all kinds of QT quoting should be forbidden (and thought it was here) but I'm happy we're not getting a lylo modkill, so ok.
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Yes but, well, there's a history theree. It involves me ! M72 if you want to read that. We ended up deciding that QT quoting was forbidden because a number of players (myself included) would feel forced to do it as scum (because I, like you I think, love nothing more than yammering to myself in my QT as town) and that it would just be overall annoying. There was a lot of controversy about it actually, but there you go for the context.
PPE: Ok, well, good. I generally think all kinds of QT quoting should be forbidden (and thought it was here) but I'm happy we're not getting a lylo modkill, so ok.
I was not aware of context, no. And it's a good note. Had I thought it was breaking the rules obviously I wouldn't do it - but I thought (and am! Thankfully! You scared me!) I was ok.
Each Mod has their rules quirks, and this is one that, I think, just isn't standardized regarding personal QT's.
Regardless, that can be a conversation for another day. I'm still at work, so won't be posting much else. I think all my thoughts are out there though at this point!
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Weeelll....
Ugh, are we opening this box of nightmares again ? Like, why would I not ask for everyone here to quote their whole QT (minus Robz's posts) ?
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Don't do that. I just don't want that whole conversation again. BUt I will note that this is exactly the reason QT quoting should be forbidden, even personal QTs. But that discussion can happen after the game... again.
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In case it got lost in that shuffle: Galzria has votes for faust.
Which is fine, but it means if RR votes that lets scum!Galz hammer. So, you know, don't do that unless you're absolutely sure you've made your decision.
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Bolding a spelling error, classic.
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Scum!Me can't hammer until you vote Tep. 4 alive takes 3 to lynch. If RR/Faust vote together, it's either on you (confirmed town), or on me, whom I obviously wouldn't hammer. :P
This is true of everybody btw. Nobody can hammer if you don't vote. Day ends when you want it to, not sooner.
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Right, I'm dumb. Carry on.
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I'll give RR another shakedown tonight, and I'll reread Swan to see if I've missed anything, but for right now I'm just not seeing Iguana/Space/Swan/RR.
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I -do- believe that Swan was doing both the NK and the Poison kill (at least N4) - if he's tracked by Eevee he's done anyway. No reason to spread around trackable targets. And Eevee dying tonight instead of Teproc suggests that scum could not block him after all - so in all likelihood RR did, in fact, do nothing N4 (as town or scum).
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Filling in past information with new information:
Right, I've got my vote-counting stuff set up for this game now :-)
Here's the peak (or peaks) of any wagon so far that's gotten up to at least 4 people.
#105: LaLight (4): IDontPlayThisGame, Teproc, O, Jimmmmm
#138: LaLight (4): Teproc, O, Jimmmmm, Witherweaver
#200: gkrieg13 (6): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, faust, Teproc, LaLight, DatSwan
#232: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, Teproc, LaLight
#348: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Qvist
#362: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, DatSwan
#379: Eevee (4): faust, O, gkrieg13, Galzria
#380: Roadrunner7671 (4): Teproc, iguanaiguana, Qvist, DatSwan
#388: gkrieg13 (4): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, LaLight, Teproc
#440: Roadrunner7671 (6): Qvist, DatSwan, Galzria, faust, Archetype, Eevee
#470: Witherweaver (5): O, Teproc, Galzria, gkrieg13, Eevee
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#739
LaLight (7): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (8): Roadrunner7671, faust, 2.71828....., O, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver
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Space Count
LaLight (7): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Archetype, Qvist, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm
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You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?
Vote Count 4.Final
Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671
Not Voting (0):
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Vote Count 5.Final
DatSwan (4): RoadRunner7671, Teproc, O, Galzria
RoadRunner7671 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (2): faust, Eevee
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Pathetic. The Dharma Initiative came here seeking harmony, but it can't even live in harmony with them. I know my purpose. They'll be sorry...
Vote Count 3.Final
iguanaiguana (7): Eevee, gkrieg13, Galzria, Teproc, 2.71828, SpaceAnemone, Qvist
Teproc (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): chairs, RoadRunner7671, faust, O, DatSwan
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Vote Count 1.Final
LaLight (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, Galzria, iguaniguana
RoadRunner7671 (2): Qvist, Archetype
IDontPlayThisGame (9): RoadRunner7671, faust, 2.71828, LaLight, DatSwan, Teproc, Witherweaver, O, Eevee
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Last one. Phone battery getting low anyway.
You could have been so much more. As long as I'm alive you are never going anywhere. No matter how hard you try someone will always take my place.
2.Final Vote Count
LaLight (8): DatSwan, O, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, faust
Galzria (1): Teproc
Not Voting (4): Jimmmmm, Qvist, Chairs, 2.71828
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Galz, you know Eevee is dead right?
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Fun fact: this single post is the reason I was so convinced Datswan was scum:
I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?
Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.
Iguana always RVSes his scum partner after RVS.
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Galz, you know Eevee is dead right?
Yes
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Oh that's stuff from your QT I get it
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I -do- believe that Swan was doing both the NK and the Poison kill (at least N4) - if he's tracked by Eevee he's done anyway. No reason to spread around trackable targets. And Eevee dying tonight instead of Teproc suggests that scum could not block him after all - so in all likelihood RR did, in fact, do nothing N4 (as town or scum).
Of course you'd claim that, since it is the only thing saving you. If e didn't block DatSwan, he blocked me. Yet we have had a kill and a Poisoning. You suggest that scum lets both these be executed by the player who's the biggest scumread of the Roleblocker?
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Funny I imagined I would wake up today facing a dead Teproc and scum!Eevee faking a result on me.
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Due to routine island maintenance, the sky may turn purple today. Namaste.
Vote Count 6.2
faust (1): Galzria
Not Voting (3): faust, RoadRunner7671, Teproc
With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends Thursday, October 26 at 5:00 PM.
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Wow. I thought something would have happened, with me gone for 3 days and all that.
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So I guess since none of you are VLA, request prods on Galzria, RR, Teproc
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I think from my rereads, I'd put RR slightly above Galzria as the final scum, but I'd need to convince Galzria to stop voting for me for that to happen.
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I -do- believe that Swan was doing both the NK and the Poison kill (at least N4) - if he's tracked by Eevee he's done anyway. No reason to spread around trackable targets. And Eevee dying tonight instead of Teproc suggests that scum could not block him after all - so in all likelihood RR did, in fact, do nothing N4 (as town or scum).
One thing about this: Leaving Eevee alive strongly suggests Roleblocker. But RR has been tracked for no target (clearing him since he would be RB). So leaving Eevee alive creates an IC. Then there is no point in killing the existing IC as it will only create a new one. And it's probably better for scum to kill off the most townread non-IC player than to ICfy a player that is a viable mislynch target (that is assuming RR is town; if he's scum, he is likely no RB and thus needs to kill Eevee too).
So really any scum would have killed Eevee here and we can draw no conclusions from it.
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Right, right, I'll get to this, sorry.
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I think I'm leaning Faust over Galz, but I'm gonna reread swam interactions before voting.
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Sorry! - Sat/Sun I'm at work all day. I'm off today though so I'll get to my RR reevaluation.
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I got through about half of this today. I should have time to finish up tomorrow.
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Really though. Vote: RR
He's been scummy for the whole time. The only exonerating thing about his play was the mutual bussing with DatSwan, but that can be planned and it's not a big risk. The rest just screams scum, and Galzria has a couple of genuinely townie moments, if I lose to him at least I lost to someone who gave a really solid performance.
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Of course there's not really much of a point to us voting. The way I see it, the game only ends the way that Teproc determines a lynch and then we all lynch that person.
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Well, not if I don't convince the townies. If you (town!you that is) thinks I'm getting it wrong, you can
a) try to convince me (especially if I'm hesitating between the other two)
b) stall the game to deadline, I get killed and you get to try lynching whomever at actual lylo.
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I'm currently rereading, btw.
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Ok, well I'm looking at three possible scumteams. Let's start with
iguana/Space/Swan/RR
Though I'm guessing this will have non-RR related comments as well.
Bids:
Swan (4/8) => #1 => Poisoner
Space (16) => #3 => Watcher
RR (35) => #7 => "Watcher (fail)"
iguana (23) => #10 Barracks (fail)
So, let's look at RR here. Eevee got killed last night. That has to mean no Roleblocker right ? Why kill Eevee if you can roleblock him all day (and he can keep saying he gets no result as scum, so it's not like he's inherently IC-fied) over me, an actual IC ? I guess if you kill me, town no lynches and you have to kill Eevee (or whomever, but likely Eevee) anyway... and if you're scum!RR you want me alive because I don't seem likely to vote RR at lylo.
So... ok, there is a scenario in which RR is a Roleblocker and kills Eevee anyway. He could also be a Rolecop, or a have failed to go for Bomb or JK. Sure.
I still think the bid of 35 is a townie one. It never gets a much higher spot than what RR got, and I think scum really wants to aim high here.
DAY 1
#270: Space opposes e's idea of claiming the low position people (10+). Which would only have included Swan here (fakeclaiming iguana's spot). I guess Space opposes this because they think town!Space would do so as well ? I'm still not sure if that plan was good or bad, frankly. It lets scum kill among the high positions (so here something like WW (or gkrieg/Arch maybe)/me/LL/Jimmmm/e, which makes them a bit better at hitting PRs but maybe not that much as it turns out, and it can PoE them somewhat (not in this team but that's true with Galz for example, how does he survive being a likely PR and active townie so long ?)... at the same time, if we followed that claiming plan by saying we'd lynch among the high numbers, excluding candidates that gives us a D1 lynchpool of {WW?, Space, LL, RR, Jimmmm}, which is 2 out of 5 to hit mafia. I guess it makes sense for Space to oppose it if they assume it goes that way (I don't think it really would have but it was a possibility).
#294: iguana likes e's plan. Either because he doesn't see the scenario above as probably or because he just doesn't think people will agree to it anyway so there's no cost in acting as he thinks his town!self would have.
#298: Swan not a fan of the plan
#305: iguana defending RR against my vote, saying it's normal for town!RR not to vote on D1.
#310: After I present some evidence to the contrary, iguana votes RR (3).
#314: RR mentions thinking iguana is scummy but does not want to lynch him D1 because of the claim.
#322+: Exchange between iguana and RR where iguana is frustrated that RR doesn't vote. Could be partner-y, sure.
#339: Swan does not like the RR (3) wagon.
#377: RR (4) votes DatSwan (1). Unexplained. Don't know if that's a scum!RR move. Looking at his last 3 normal scum games, he never busse din 91 and 105, but he did bus twice in 92. Town won that flawlessly though. Also his busses there are less random than it'd be here. Not sure if it's super indicative.
#380: Swan votes RR (4). Not that dangerous maybe, but this is Swan's first scum game, and he knows how quickly a RR lynch can go (in M105 RR got lynched essentially because he refused to do anything before deadline which pissed town off + some PoE et voilà, took like an hour and a half to go from 0 votes to hammered). Swan's vote makes it even between RR and Eevee, with gkrieg at 3 votes right behind them. Still, this could be a move that results in RR being the default lynch. Really it almost happened that way, people just got off RR and went to IDPTG instead, but the IDPTG wagon was mostly people falling back on PoE after LL claimed JK.
I think newbie!scum voting for lurking!partner is a bit of a stretch. Voting for an active partner, sure, you know they can deal with it, but RR is a bit different I think (though he was active at that particular moment).
#394: iguana moves from RR (2), to Swan (2) before going V/LA. This possibly makes the most sense with scum!RR, though really iguana knows Swan will not get lynched on D1 because he's a Candidate. Still, if RR is town, iguana can just leave his vote there.
#401: Space criticizes iguana for that Swan vote, hah.
#406: RR insisting that Swan's vote for him is scummy, which starts a bit of a back-and-forth between them. That one does not read partner-y at all. I really get a town!RR vibe of this whole thing... does scum!RR stay and argue with his scum partner Swan ? I don't think that's really his style: when he bussed in M91 he didn't really talk to his partners while doing it, and I generally think scum!RR would be scared of slipping in that situation (talking to partners is always tough) and would simply disengage. It's not like scum!RR feels an obligation to post here, his wagon has died down quite a bit at this point.
#444: Weird post where RR seems resigned to be lynched (4 people voted for him since the previous post, Galzria just unvoted because he thought RR was at 7 votes). "Losing the battle but winning the war". Now that's more like scum!RR.
#459: RR "not gonna claim because despite my wagon and stuff, I'd be shocked if I got". Eh, I give up.
#477: Swan still thinks RR (4) is scum. Argues for it somewhat. The RR wagon is fluctuating fast, so I do think this is a bit risky.
#487: Meanwhile, Space is doing their vote count thingy. Does not look like worried scum to me, which... they should be at this point right ? RR has 4 votes, Swan has 2... granted WW is the leading wagon (5), but still.
#499: Swan preparing to move off RR to WW.
Some exchanges in the #520 thereabouts between RR and WW which read pretty relaxed to me. Relaxed meaning town.
Meanwhile Space is beating the drum for a gkrieg lynch, which is more like it if RR is scum. They also mention RR getting a "townpass for the day", which faust.
#553: RR amused that people want to vote for Swan now.
#569: Space's reads are hedgy on iguana and Swan, but they read RR as "flaily town". RR doesn't like that, votes Swan (3) again. I mean if this is a scumteam, they're not afraid of interacting directly and voting for each other lots. Swan's first scum game, need I remind people. Not really buying it.
End of day has RR backing off LL and going IDPTG along with Swan, while iguana and Space push LL. Then LL claims JK, not comment from any scum until Swan says (post-hammer) that Eevee is scummy. Not sure RR was still around then.
And, that's all for now. So... RR still looks townie from D1 to me, but hey, I though Swan was super townie D1 too, so we'll see. Mostly D4 (D5 was straight bussing in this scenario IIRC).
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DAY 2
#892 RR thinks LL is not a good lynch for today, unlike his scumbuddies who are pushing for it hard, particularly Swan who cites LL's survival as a key point... which kinda suggests scum was specifically trying to get LL lynched. Makes sense since he's a JK I guess, and I do think Space genuinely suspected him as SK at least. Swan investigated Galz though.
#923: Now that LL admits to his mistake on the bid, RR goes LAL on him.
#997: Again, posts RR doesn't need to make. Does scum!RR post them ? Don't really think so.
Like individually RR's posts all seem super townie to me. He's a suspect because he's there and alive, but that's it... faust, you actually think RR has been scummy, and I just don't see how that is the case. You've previously quoted posts and just said they were scummy from him, but they read super genuine to me. What does scum!RR look like to you in general ?
DAY 3
Whatever
DAY 4
This feels really hopeless.
Like this. I mean it's not hard to fake, no. Obviously. But it's pitch-perfect for town!RR, as his the whole game.
He also prepares the ground quite a bit for his failed Watcher bid, which... does he need to do that as scum ? Maybe, he is claiming late.
#1721: Swan thinks there is scum in {RR,E}. Neither of whom he should want to lynch at all here. He does also think faust is scum there, though.
#1726: RR goes faust>Swan>Galz. Reasonable, though Swan is the poisoner. RR conflating his belief of Space's claim as Watcher with them being town limits his options, but I guess I could see scum!RR painting himself in that corner.
#1733: Swan says Occam's Razor means RR is scum, though he also says faust is "quite clearly" scum.
#1743: Space hedges on RR.
So this scumteam is going for faust right ? That's the plan, clearly. faust has two townies on him, no scum is voting. Granted, they need to convince one other townie, but why isn't ANY of them voting ? They're all saying faust is scum, but no votes. Granted, O and I have said we don't want to lynch faust, but Galz has said nothing of the sort. In fact he does end up on faust later. So there was a win there for scum, but they didn't go for it. Why ? Faust, you think RR is scum so I'm interested what you think happened there.
#1826: Swan goes for Galz instead. Sure, they want the Masons to be on the mislynch, maybe that's a reason. Maybe they think a third townie will be swayed by belief of the mason claim and follow us on a Galz mislynch. I guess that makes sense.
#1903: Space votes faust. I guess they're hedging their bets on faust/Galz, sure.
#1906: Galz votes faust, which makes it three townies on town!faust + Space. So all RR and Swan need to do is hammer. Swan posts at #1912 but does not vote faust. He then says Galz is his preferred lynch but he could lynch Galz, which can read as "RR if you get here vote faust and I'll follow".
Then at #1928 RR posts and does not vote. He mentions that he's semi-V/LA and phone-posting, so maaaybe he's missing the opportunity entirely.
Then at #1944 RR votes Swan.
To recap: If RR votes faust, Swan can hammer faust for the quasi-win. Instead, he votes for the person he least wants to lynch: his poisoner scumbuddy. Again, faust, how is RR scum here ?
At #1953, the win is still on the table, Swan posts and still does not vote, despite RR being around. As it turns out RR does not post anymore after that, but Swan doesn't know that. Why not vote faust here ?
#1958: Space unvotes faust. Again: why ? The win is entirely possible still ! Why oh why does Space unvote here if that's the scumteam ?
Shortly thereafter Galz switches to Space and ok, they're kinda done now. But to me it looks like scum barely even tried to lynch town D4 in that scenario. RR even voted for the poisoner.
This scumteam does not make sense. faust, if you are town, reconsider.
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Not even rereading D5. It's just Swan and RR voting for each other, which ok, whatever, in this situation why not I guess.
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This scumteam does not make sense. faust, if you are town, reconsider.
You raise good points and I guess I should have done the work myself. The time just wasn't there.
Eh. I guess it's vote: Galzria then.
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So now the scumteams that are actually plausible. RR, since I'm now assuming you're town (for better or worse, unless faust somehow convinces me of the contrary), I'd appreciate if you read and responded to this.
iguana/Space/Swan/faust
Bids:
Swan (4/8) => #1 => Poisoner
Space (16) => #3 => Watcher
iguana (23) => #10 => Barracks (fail)
faust (3) => #15 => Two-Shot Redirector (fail)
Numbers make sense (3 can end up quite high, not #1 but scum!faust doesn't want to be the poisoner himself anyway, too likely to attract town PRs), I kinda think faust's claim is truthful in this scenario too. Which means no Roleblocker, which means the missing kill on N1 is either
a) gkrieg redirecting messing LL up
b) LL shooting WW
c) LL not shooting
Or not, whatever, I guess I can't trust that faust did go for redirector, it's a safe claim for scum at that point anyway with gkrieg having flipped.
Now for the reread. This will be less detailed, because
a) Even with a semi-active faust at some points, there's infinitely more content.
b) For this scumteam, scum never got under pressure in any way before D3. That doesn't make D1-2 irrelevant, but much less than in the RR scenario (and the same applies to the Galz scenario, though Galz had slightly more pressure than faust).
faust's day 1 theory talk does make me think he went for Redirector (regardless of alignment), which is slightly townie (because the absence of a Roleblocker makes some of the scenarios for N1 a little weird, as well as Eevee surviving N4). As for Poisoner, faust is the only one to correctly assess the possibility of scum fakeclaiming, but I don't think that's indicative: faust is smart regardless of alignment, and would feel fine pointing it out as scum because I don't think that changes much to what town does here re: iguana on D3.
D1 has a DatSwan vote from faust at #534, not a dangerous one though, given DatSwan's candidate status. faust moves off pretty quickly too.
Some interactions with Space re: the RR wagon, not very indicative either way.
Generally this is null-ish play from faust. The only thing against him is the lack of a strong case to push, he does suspect RR quite a bit, then ends up on IDPTG. Actually RR and faust are the source of the RR wagon, which is kinda funny, since RR was just putting LL at L-1 and faust had been pushing LL for a while. Don't see it as indicative of much though.
faust actually sides with me v Galzria during D1 (well, he sides against Galz in any case). I want to say it's scummy because town!faust and town!me tend to be at each other's throat, but well, that was early D4.
Yeah, going into D4 faust is just null to me. Maybe slightly scummy, but not by much.
Then there's the whole faust v Masons thing. The thing is: in terms of meta it's townie, but it's also very much in scum!faust's advantage to do this. Though, I guess... I was thinking the main danger was scum being able to fakeclaim Barracks, but they never had that possibility open since iguana failed to get them (I'm assuming Swan's claim is true, because it simply makes sense as a failed scum bid, and we know scum failed at least one bid). I suppose me claiming before Swan did not change much if Swan claimed truthfully anyway. So if scum!faust does this, it's for the towncred. I don't think it actually helps a Masons conspiracy theory to make us claim early, the best way to go about that is to go "well we let the Masons dictate everything and things fit well, must be that the Masons are scum".
Also faust is not the Poisoner. Making it him v whoever townie they want to lynch is not necessarily a bad plan here. It almost worked too, but more on that, well, now.
So, #1733 again, we have Swan saying faust is "quite clearly" scum but also saying the simplest explanation for poisoner is RR.
#1743: Space re:faust focuses on "he's not the poisoner".
So this is the line for the scumteam, but who are they lynching ? Given that O and I are on Galz, that's the obvious answer, but they're not pushing that yet. Not that they're pushing much, they're watching what town does first. So far, things are going well for this scumteam: town is divided on faust so that's paying off.
#1747: SpaceMcHedge reads, where they repeat faust is non-Poisoner and everyone else is in the lynchpool save for the Masons and Qvist.
#1763: faust says lynching based on bids is "completely bogus". I'll point out here that my reasoning was that lynching Lost numbers should give us 2/3 at least with a {Space, Galz, Swan} lynchpool, which turned out to be entirely correct. I'm pointing this out because yes, I'm petty and I want to to rub it in faust's face if he's town, but also because scum!faust has to be somewhat worried about this line of reasoning. It leaves Galz as the only possible mislynch if town agrees with me, which should work (and it almost did, if Galz is town), but it makes more sense for scum!faust to resist this line of reasoning than town!faust. Mostly because town!faust has no arguments against this other than "well why didn't we claim bids D1 then" which would be irrelevant even if it made a lick of sense.
#1767: To be fair, faust also calls my Galz vote lazy, which... as formulated, it really was. It was the result of discussion in the Masons QT which I didn't care to transcribe and as a result, yes, it lookesd very lazy for the situation.
#1826 Swan votes Galz. The natural mislynch target here for scum.
Unfortunately for scum, O unvotes at #1837 and says he wants to lynch Space. Which... well if this is the scumteam, this is where it goes all wrong for them. Galz follows suit immediately... if O is able to convince me (he hasn't yet), that means Galz is all of a sudden very difficult to lynch, and the whole "lynch the Lost numbers" thing is pretty bad for scum. So
#1873 faust has a lynchpool of {Space, Swan, RR}. I do think at this point scum wants to either find a way to still lynch Galz or lynch RR. People haven't taken strong stances on RR really, so you could convince town to go there.
#1884: Eevee voting RR.
#1893 Galz voting e, the unvoting. This does move him off Space, which makes the field open for scum, but all of the options look tough. RR and Galz - both with one townie sitting on - are still the leading ones I think, but the water are somewhat muddied, and non-Poisoner bussing has to look like a very viable option now.
#1903: Space votes faust. Assuming they go down, polishing interactions ? I mean, if Space is bussing it's gotta be on faust, but I'm a little surprised they're not going for Galz there.
#1906: Galz follows Space on faust. If faust is a Redirector it's kinda the same between him and Space for a bus, but if he's a Roleblocker scum would much rather get Space bussed. Regardless, faust is still a hard sell for town without the masons.
#1915: Big Swan post.
RR=> "simplest explanation" for Poisoner
e => Nah
Space/Eevee => Maybe one of them is scum, maybe none.
faust=> Hedge
Galz => Scum
Lynch preferences: Galz > faust/RR > e/Eevee/Space
Which makes sense here. Galz is the ideal scenario and the most likely mislynch, it's nice to have the door open on RR... faust is the bus of choice here possibly because scum is simply hoping that the Masons won't budge and it'll result in a lynch Galz by default. It wasn't far off either... had I convinced O to switch to Galz rather than the reverse, that works out for them.
#1917: faust votes RR, then immediately changes his mind (because of Masons not hammering) and votes Swan. Well that doesn't make a ton of sense (for scum!faust I mean). Especially since faust only posts once after that. Leaving your faust on RR is, I think, not as good as leaving it on Galz, but reasonable...
The only way I can understand it for scum!faust is that he just realized after his RR vote that they were just not getting a mislynch today, so he left his vote on Swan for ideal interactions in case he got lynched. A bold choice, not impossible though.
Also possible: a hope for no lynch. I don't think scum!faust seriously thinks that's likely though, but that's how Swan ended up playing it.
Swan continues to push Galz during this late period after myself and Qvist have voted Space. The writing's on the wall really, so I guess Swan is just covering for his no lynch hopes of e never hammering.
D5
As I said earlier (both in the Masons QT and in the thread I think), my expectations going into this day were as follows:
- we were going to lynch Swan
- if faust was scum, he was not going to bus
- if Galz was scum, he was going to bus
Both conformed to those expectations, which is a bit of a problem now.
Swan went for RR, faust never followed but defended Swan and particularly argued that RR and Swan couldn't be scum together (true) which meant Swan was town because RR was so scummy.
Don't think I need to explain how that's practical to scum in the most basic sense, but really I don't think Swan and faust had much hope going into D5. They knew Swan was most likely going down. They decided to resist it and make it RR/Swan because RR could have been Poisoner (Eevee tracking him was somewhat unfortunate for them), and figuring that it would look "too scummy to be scum" for faust to align with Swan.
Taking that day individually, makes sense. The thing that trouble me is that Swan vote late D4. That opens up a line for faust to go full bus on Swan yesterday and say "well, while you were lynching Space I was pushing the poisoner, so you know, who's townie now ?". As I said that's not what I expect scum!faust to do (I think scum!faust plays short term because he assumes survival makes him inherently scummy and the game gets tougher the longer it goes) , so I'm not surprised D5 went the way it did... but I am surprised by the Swan vote. It gives me pause.
At some point either tonight or tomorrow, I'll finish this up with Galz. That should take some time.
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Vote: Faust
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Vote Count 6.3
faust (2): Galzria, RoadRunner7671
Galzria (1): faust
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends Thursday, October 26 at 5:00 PM.
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You gonna vote?
I thought about it but no.
Who did you think about voting for?
SA and Qvist crossed my mind, but there's no point.
Whyyyy
Cause if we were to lynch them, we wouldn't gain anything besides either a dead townie or dead scummy. No interactions n stuff
As Teproc noted, there isn't a whole lot from RR. This exchange D1 with Iguana is interesting though. Iguana is pushing RR to vote after it's been noted that scum!RR has a tendency to hold back, whereas town!RR votes freely. Now, the resulting meta arguments and WIFOM brought forth are null - but if these two are partners this interaction seems reasonable. Iguana loves to bus (see: M100 where he went hard for me at the end of D1 and early D2 until the mcmc stuffs came forth), and he does so with with a pre-planned vigor.
Note that at the conclusion of this, RR says he would vote Space or Qvist, and pressed as to why he responded that lynching them would end in either a "dead townie or dead scummy". Which is factually accurate. Could be scum knowledge.
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Intent to put to L-1
Noone needs that.
I've been hammered before I got to claim too many times. The most recent time especially hurt
That's a result of not having enough time to claim. WHich, you know, happens when people delay the L-1 vote.
This interaction is one between town and scum. I find RR the townier of the two here (surprise) - am I just conf. bias'ing? I guess it's alignment neutral? I think intent to L-1 is not a bad thing, and if somebody is going to claim at L-1 it gives them the chance without fearing a derphammer. But then if you refuse to claim until an actual L-1 arises... I dunno. I just feel like faust pushing RR on this is scummy. Like, maybe there was need for an "intent to L-1" and maybe there wasn't - but was there really a need to poke RR over it in a non-productive way?
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Vote: LL
L-1
Unvote
I don't think he's scum and I don't really like self preservation.
Want to vote Idplay?
No opinion
Vote: IDPTG
This little 3-minute spurt of posts from RR is a little scummy on face value - but I believe it was noted earlier (checking)...
Last time I checked ER had a really hard time committing to any vote especially D1.
Oh yeah. Even if I do vote, I tend to unvote at really inconvenient times to prevent people from being lynched. Looking at you, Eevee.
It seems that sort of thing is a town!RR meta (we were discussing RR voting more frequently as town D1 than as scum at the time) - it's brought to you by Iguana/RR though, but I don't think it's inaccurate. I think that while I perceive that sort of switching as scummy, it may not actually be scummy for RR.
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I think the scummiest thing for RR day 1 is that prior to being called out by WW on his meta-analysis, RR was playing a certain way (arguably, in WW's view, as scum!RR plays). After being called out, there is a shift towards a more established town!RR meta. I get RR arguing against meta's to begin with and all that - but there is definitely a perception of him shifting - a clear before and after.
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I feel like this is just clutter and irrelevant though. It's -really- hard to go back and reread somebody you just don't think is scum, looking for scummy things. I don't think RR is scum. I don't think we're lynching RR. If RR is scum, I think that scum wins. So... I feel like I would be better off spending my time formulating my case on faust - except I've done that (maybe not as clearly as I might - I can clean it up if anybody would like?)... so I'm rereading, but I can't really get into it.
Teproc, no rush, but could you finish the reread on me? At least then I'll have something to respond to. :-/
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The case for Faust:
- He's been on 0 correct lynches this game:
- D2: He's the only remaining player not on the LL lynch. I don't think all 4 scum put themselves on that not-mafia lynch.
- D4: Space #1855: Goes for a scum team of Iguana/e/Eevee/Faust - I don't think Space places all town in that list
- D5: D4 scum obviously kept the lynch pool open. Bus if needed, but try to steer towards town. That failed. I think Faust/Swan decided going into D5 to push for a common target: RR.
- D1: I believe this is scum!faust coaching scum!Swan: "You don't need a solid scum read to vote. All you need is to pretend you do."
- D5: I don't believe scum!swan and scum!RR decided to go into D5 following Space's lynch D4 with all out counter-busses.
- More tonight. Gotta go to work.
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Not today Galz, sorry.
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Not today Galz, sorry.
Blah. Ok.
Deadline tomorrow though, yeah? Again, I'm open to a 24 hour extension if needed (it would kill the spectators though lol). I'm pretty much decided, but if you want it it's ok with me.
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Not today Galz, sorry.
Blah. Ok.
Deadline tomorrow though, yeah? Again, I'm open to a 24 hour extension if needed (it would kill the spectators though lol). I'm pretty much decided, but if you want it it's ok with me.
Deadline in two days. Definitely getting it done tomorrow though.
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Not today Galz, sorry.
Blah. Ok.
Deadline tomorrow though, yeah? Again, I'm open to a 24 hour extension if needed (it would kill the spectators though lol). I'm pretty much decided, but if you want it it's ok with me.
Deadline in two days. Definitely getting it done tomorrow though.
You're right. I was thinking of when we lynched (last Wednesday), not when we restarted.
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The case for Faust:
- He's been on 0 correct lynches this game:
- D2: He's the only remaining player not on the LL lynch. I don't think all 4 scum put themselves on that not-mafia lynch.
- D4: Space #1855: Goes for a scum team of Iguana/e/Eevee/Faust - I don't think Space places all town in that list
- D5: D4 scum obviously kept the lynch pool open. Bus if needed, but try to steer towards town. That failed. I think Faust/Swan decided going into D5 to push for a common target: RR.
- D1: I believe this is scum!faust coaching scum!Swan: "You don't need a solid scum read to vote. All you need is to pretend you do."
- D5: I don't believe scum!swan and scum!RR decided to go into D5 following Space's lynch D4 with all out counter-busses.
- Town!Faust questions everything and everyone, obtaining his reads from said questioning. This Faust is non-existant this game.
- D1: At #380, Iguana was on RR with Datswan - RR only had 4 votes though, so was no real threat to lynch. By #440, RR had spiked to 6 votes, and while Iguana was no longer on him, DatSwan still was - as now, was Faust. This FEELS more like a town lynch potential than a D1 bus potential.
- More tonight. Gotta go to work.
Bolded new stuffs.
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The case for Faust:
- He's been on 0 correct lynches this game:
- D2: He's the only remaining player not on the LL lynch. I don't think all 4 scum put themselves on that not-mafia lynch.
- D4: Space #1855: Goes for a scum team of Iguana/e/Eevee/Faust - I don't think Space places all town in that list
- D5: D4 scum obviously kept the lynch pool open. Bus if needed, but try to steer towards town. That failed. I think Faust/Swan decided going into D5 to push for a common target: RR.
- D1: I believe this is scum!faust coaching scum!Swan: "You don't need a solid scum read to vote. All you need is to pretend you do."
- D5: I don't believe scum!swan and scum!RR decided to go into D5 following Space's lynch D4 with all out counter-busses.
- Town!Faust questions everything and everyone, obtaining his reads from said questioning. This Faust is non-existant this game.
- D1: At #380, Iguana was on RR with Datswan - RR only had 4 votes though, so was no real threat to lynch. By #440, RR had spiked to 6 votes, and while Iguana was no longer on him, DatSwan still was - as now, was Faust. This FEELS more like a town lynch potential than a D1 bus potential.
- D5: In post #2153 (faust's reread of Space), he finds Space breadcrumb'ing watching him N1 - something none of us caught and Space never pointed to. In public. It's possible town!faust just happened to stumble on that - it's also possible scum!Space told the team that they had breadcrumbed it D1, and faust knew where to look.
- Possible scum slip in faust's #2183 (reread on me), where he suggests knowledge that Eevee is town (I called this out in #2188)
- The following was posted -before- town knew what slots were in the Barracks (e's claim), but scum did - It suggests knowledge of what was in the Barracks:
I mean, 15th is a position where you go for barracks or something you think no one wants. Not for redirector/summon mother slot
I didn't think I'd get anything, and having information on whether Mother/Redirect is in the game seemed like a good thing to have, better even than a random weak PR.
- As a follow up, Town!Faust definitely thought Barracks was a good slot to bid for, so why didn't he go for it?:
What are your thoughts on DatSwan going for Barracks and claiming to fail?
I have my doubts anyone with a single digit position would go for it.
Why is that? I made a power ranking of the slots in the first run and had Barracks at position 6. It's pretty strong.
Bolded new stuffs. That's the majority of what I have, I think. The rest is full of WIFOM interactions that could be done from a town or scum perspective.
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He's been on 0 correct lynches this game:
Yes and I'm sorry. However it doesn't really hold; when Space was lynched, I was on DatSwan. Counting that as "no correct lynches" is extremely misleading.
He's the only remaining player not on the LL lynch. I don't think all 4 scum put themselves on that not-mafia lynch.
Well maybe scum already knew he was SK, or had strong suspicions.
D4: Space #1855: Goes for a scum team of Iguana/e/Eevee/Faust - I don't think Space places all town in that list
You realize that iguana is on that list?
D5: D4 scum obviously kept the lynch pool open. Bus if needed, but try to steer towards town. That failed. I think Faust/Swan decided going into D5 to push for a common target: RR.
Now that's just theorycrafting. I can pick any two players and look at what they did and afterwards say "I think X/Y decided going into D5 to do exactly what I just read them doing".
D1: I believe this is scum!faust coaching scum!Swan: "You don't need a solid scum read to vote. All you need is to pretend you do."
::)
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Town!Faust questions everything and everyone, obtaining his reads from said questioning. This Faust is non-existant this game.
As said, this is biased by my performance as IC in the last game. I question more as IC. Plus I did not have the time to follow along closely for the majority of the game.
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It just gets thinner and thinner from here.
D5: In post #2153 (faust's reread of Space), he finds Space breadcrumb'ing watching him N1 - something none of us caught and Space never pointed to. In public. It's possible town!faust just happened to stumble on that - it's also possible scum!Space told the team that they had breadcrumbed it D1, and faust knew where to look.
If Space had intended that as a breadcrumb, they would have pointed it out, as the only reason to breadcrumb in the first place is for towncred.
Possible scum slip in faust's #2183 (reread on me), where he suggests knowledge that Eevee is town (I called this out in #2188)
::)
The following was posted -before- town knew what slots were in the Barracks (e's claim), but scum did - It suggests knowledge of what was in the Barracks:
I don't see it? I mean it's clear that Barracks are more likely to contain weaker roles because they only contain roles that nobody else got. It's also unclear what the insinuation is here... does scum!me know what's in the Barracks before he decides to bid? I wish I had that kind of precognition.
As a follow up, Town!Faust definitely thought Barracks was a good slot to bid for, so why didn't he go for it?
More nonsense. I mean I also think Gunsmith is a good slot to bid for. Why didn't I go for it? Duh, because I'm ranked 15 and in all likelihood someone else will already have it.
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I mean I don't know why town!Galz goes through the trouble of rereading RR in detail when Teproc already made a pretty damn compelling argument for why RR isn't scum. It's just an upping of activity. I won't bother to reread Galzria because I already know PoE dictates him to be scum. I don't think any reread I make based on that biased perspective is going to convince anyone. So the best thing I can do is convince people that I am town.
Galzria offers a long list of reasons, one flimsier than the next. The only ones that do make sense is where he pitches something based on RR being likely town. Of course if Galzria assumes that RR is town, he must concluse that I am scum. But still he bothers finding other arguments, as if he needed to convince himself of something he already knows. I know. I'm not going all out in a flurry of posts trying to make sure that my voice is the only one heard. I know Teproc will reread everything and make up his mind, and I know that if I cannot convince Teproc that I'm town and we lynch someone else today, it's game over. A no lynch, Teproc kill scenario won't do me any favors.
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iguana/Space/Swan/Galz
Swan (4/8) => #1 => Poisoner
Space (16) => #3 => Watcher
Galz (42) => #4 => "Poisoner (fail)"
iguana (23) => #10 => The Barracks (fail)
Makes sense as far as the bids are concerned, scum might even assume that "scum wouldn't do ALL Lost numbers" could go in their favor in the end. Galz is obviously some PR here... it's a little weird to kill Eevee is Galz is a roleblocker, but the non-Roleblocker situations are also slightly weird for N1, so I don't know. Rolecop is possible, given scum's accuracy at hitting PRs after N1 (Arch/chairs especially, perfect timing there).
DAY 1
The Poisoner thing... at the risk of annoying Galz to death, here's how it goes
Galz says people in support of vigs (which he supposed to be a majority) should not be opposed to Poisoner shooting N1 (ignoring the fact that Poisoners are decidedly not vigs, among other things).
But then he hurriedly adds that he, personally, is not in favor of a poisoner shootings.
The question then is: why bring this up ? What does this add, what does this do for Galz's wincon ? If he's town, I guess he can gauge reactions to it ? Reactions to theory talk are generally not worthy of much, but you know.
If he's scum, why do this ? Well, scum, I think, did not intend to have iguana claim on D1. They had thought about how bad it would look in a massclaim and assigned their Goon to the role of Poisoner fakeclaim, but I don't think they intended to claim on D1... because there's no upside from them. The result of this was an automatic scum lynch on D3. Granted, a non-Poisoner lynch, but still.
The direct result of Galz's actions is what ? Muddying the waters on the consensus that a town poisoner would not shoot. At least one guy is... well Galz will insist he was not against it, which he does say - repeatedly, but raising the question (which literally no one, no one else did in the entire game despite Galz's insistence that poisoner shooting should be a majority opinion since people like vigs). Which, for someone who's very much against something, he sure obsesses over making sure people know it's a valid opinion to be for it. It's very possible that scum!Galz genuinely thought he could save iguana from a lynch D3 with this argument, and realized by everyone's reaction on D2 that this was not going to be the case.
It's also very possible that this is just very bad play from town!Galz, and I have to get past it. But it annoys me tremendously, and Galz is not faust. He never did anything as nonsensical (for town) as this in M105. Because again, as town, why bring it up again on D2 ? What's the upside ? How does it help your wincon ?
Getting that out of the way...
#411: Galz criticizing a Swan vote by RR, and later - Chainsaw Defense - votes RR for it. In this scenario, Swan is the only scum who had a remote chance of ever getting lynched D1 (he had two votes at this point).
#465: Galz mentions looking at 105 to look at RR's response to being lynched here. Townie, I think scum might refer to that game but they surely don't actually go look at it (granted RR is a short reread and scum is SK!hunting but still), and probably don't bother lying about it.
#477: Swan using RR's responses to Galz as an argument for scum!RR. I think, when you have a very argumentative scumbuddy (who's good at it I mean), it's always tempting for their partners to do this.
In the "Galz annoys me" department, he insists that the case on gkrieg was about exclamation points, which was simply false. Null though.
#547: Space thinks Galz is townie, which is quite something given the very few reads Space gave out this game.
#569: Space is back to null on Galz. That's more like it.
#578: Galz essentially saying "go ahead and lynch LL, it's a good case, but I'd rather not be on wagon because I want to look good post-flip". I'm barely paraphrasing here.
DAY 2
So, the LL bid thing (this starts in day 1 but whatever).
Galz is at #4 with a bid of 42, LL claims to be a #6 with a bid of 16. Scum!Galz knows this is false because of Space, but what about town!Galz ? In order for it to be true, there would need to be a maximum of 5 unique numbers total and 16 would be the lowest double-number. Something like
1. 4
2. 8
3. 15
4. 42
5. some non-Lost number
6. 16
7. 16
Is that really that unlikely ? I mean, the only Lost number that garnered multiple bids in reality in 23, and one of them didn't get any bid at all. I don't know. I can see how that looks unlikely to Galz, but is it really worth saying ? I thought for sure it was outing Galz as a town!PR at the time, which... I guess if we believe the "bid for Poisoner at #4", then sure, but the more I think about it the less that makes sense to me. Galz, if there's anything you want to respond to, it's that: your bid for Poisoner at #4. At that slot, you know there's at least one scum ahead of you, and you know they're going for Poisoner, no ? You can also answer why LL's 16 bid semeed so suspicious to you. I mean you answer what you want, but those are the ones that actually interest me.
Much like Swan, Galz is on a bit of a "How is LL alive ?" line. Noteworthy that faust (correctly) calls that nonsense. Noteworthy because of Swan, not because I happen to think it's a horrible argument. Galz says it's a small part of the case against LL, but it looks like it's about half of it (the other half being the lie/mistake about the bid).
You know, as much as LL did flip scum, I still dislike everything about that lynch. But, well, he was scum, so I guess I can't say anything about it.
#1022 is a puzzling one. I vote Glaz, he asks me if I think he killed WW. What ? Galz, what was that about ?
#1035 Swan kinda siding with me in the Poisoner thing.
This whole thing does raise the question of why I'm alive if Galz is scum. I mean, I'm very capable of changing my mind drastically as the game goes on, but I don't rememebr how much I did that in M105, so I don't know if Galz is aware of that.
The Candidate claim. Null as hell, as Galz clearly does this as town and thus wants to imitate it as scum. Also there's actually very little risk of death: either LL is the SK and gets lynched, or he's a town JK and very likely to JK Galz as a result, which is also nice for scum because now they know where the JK is most likely going, and it's not on the Poisoner or the killer.
Robz, if a scum ROleblocker gets Jailkept, does their Roleblock still goes through ?
YOU KEEP SAING WE SHOULDN'T TELL IGUANA NOT TO SHOOT.
Yes ? This is true right ?
If the option is "iguana doesn't shoot period" or "iguana does whatever", arguing for the latter means you're open to the possibility of town!iguana shooting. I'm saying you shouldn't. Stop trying to make me pass for a dumb five-year old, thank you very much.
Yes, I'm open to the possibility. That's the point. You're not, and that's ridiculously scummy. I don't think he SHOULD, but I, nor you, nor anybody else can tell him what to do with his power. And if he DOES chose to shoot, I'm not going to rush off and lynch him.
Just putting this out there: re the Poisoner thing. At this point it's a bit of a desperate cause, so maybe scum!Galz would just give up, but that sure is a good viewpoint for sucm to hold. At this point, iguana hadn't said whether or not he poisoned N1. What if he did ? Really it surprises me he didn't: yeah it looks terrible because the guy he poisoned turned out to be an IC, but why not say it and have a very small chance at survival the next day ? Maybe because it got Galz off this argument where he looks absolutely terrible (since now LAL applies and it's all a moot point), in my totally unbiased opinion.
Galz agrees with the quicklynch, which I do think scum would agree with. Since the PoTi was town, it did turn out to be advantageous to scum, sorry about that. I don't think agreeing with it is scummy, but disagreeing would have been somewhat townie.
Now D4. I'll post this so Galz can respond to stuff if he wants, and say right now that, though I do stand by my statement somewhere in D4 that Galz was by far the scummiest player in the game, the first 3 days combined weigh less than D4 alone, so we'll see how that looks.
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#1257 : Lylo math. I had actually done that in the Masons QT... and somehow messed it up, thinking we did have a mislynch to give still. Now, the scumteam can safely assume town will figure it out (this scenario has town!faust if nothing else), so there's no cost in pointing it out. Having the whole process there is slightly townie.
Galz's approach to the Masons claim is townie. In general I'd say Galz started being super townie on D4 (general play I mean), which... I can see as town, actually. Being at lylo certainly helps town focus. Scum actually gets scummier at lylo in general I think, but scum!Galz specifically is good at that (late game survivor scum I mean).
#1303: Townie post. My reaction to the LyLo news was also "well done, mafia", and I don't know that I'd dare post it as scum, if only because it will look super self-congratulary afterwards/to the mods. I guess the complaining about balance is slightly townie too (see: O), though rather beside the point.
Space claiming, which is worth talking about because of the targets. We actually know for sure that they were telling the truth N3 (targeted Galz)because of Eevee. N1 faust, N2 Galzria. The two scum candidates ! Scum Watcher wants to catch PRs, which targeting faust is good for. Targeting your teammates can certainly be good too, though PRs that caught scum kind of reveal themselves anyway. The more I think about it, the less I think I can get much for it. I think Space made sure to have targets that made sense for a town!Watcher too, and it's thus kinda hard to assess much re: faust and Galz from it.
#1380: Galz seems doubtful scum would ever take PotI, which makes me wonder why he was ok with quicklynching D3. Galz ?
#1403: Thinks faust's play doesn't make much sense as scum. Not the most convenient take for scum, though it's still early and he can walk it back (and indeed will).
#1448: Tough on RR for not doing the work (re: Masons), which is townie.
#1463: Space surprised by people townreading Galz.
Galz apparently loves accusing people who think he's scum of "bias". It's very annoying. No one was born with an irrational hatred of people whose usernames start with a G, you know.
#1549: Bemoaning the absense of a Dayvig during the faust v Masons thing. Townie.
#1562: Very hedgy reads post, but... in a townie way. Like, "ugh, I don't know" rather than Space's "these people have done X and Y. Bye."
#1633: Galz says he almost bid 97 both games. Why did you end up not doing it ?
#1643: Like my "lynching among the VTs" plan, which is pretty decent for scum here, 2 scum/2 town, though the Poisoner is in there.
#1653: After I ask him who he likes lynching the most among the VTs, his answer : Swan>RR>faust. That's quite a thing.
Right right, there's this whole argument re:Swan's bidding strategy, which I still don't think holds up, but... well there's the whole shraeye strategy of having a bad case on your partners, but I don't think that really applies here. I do believe Galz thinks it's a good case regardless of alignment, and it's a case on the player scum least wants to lynch. Now, we're still early in day 4, and no one is voting for DatSwan, so maybe Galz hopes faust is just getting lynched without his help and he can do whatever (this is all before O and I say we don't want to lynch faust), and he's also not voting, but... still.
#1684: If we're going specifically for Poisoner: Swan>RR
If we're just going for scum: e
Now he's leaving doors open here, and granted it's one scum out of three only, but he's in first position and it's the worst scum to lynch.
So why would scum!Galz do this here ? Well, first of all he's not voting yet. Also, it's possible scum assumed the Watcher/Tracker pairing would be left alone, in which case Galz only has Swan as a possible bus. But it's such a terrible bus...
#1689: "Anyway you won't lynch me" after I vote for him, which is strange especially given...
#1701: "This is how it ends". Granted, it's dispiriting to have half the remaining townies voting against you at lylo. I get that. It's also possible Galz thinks "well, better me than Swan" ? Voting for me certainly isn't a winning strategy for Galz, regardless of his alignment, which he'll soon realize.
#1711: Galz's lynchpool suddenly has Space in it rather than RR. Swan still in first place too. This is kinda scummy I think ? Galz thinks he's going down, so he includes partners ? Nah, it's just, again, weird, because if he thinks he'll flip that's the most obvious fake bus in history.
#1714: Swan is not exactly panicked by Galz's (relative) freakout.
#1715: Galz presents a case for a Swan/Space/iguana/e team, reiterates that Swan is his preferred lynch.
#1716: Realized voting me is not a winning strategy. Votes Swan (1) instead.
#1743: Space hedges on Galz, the Swan paragraph is mostly dedicated to disputing Galz's bidding case on him.
#1746: Space maybe implying Galz is scum for having a perfect voting record ? Unsure.
#1752: Swan indulging in Space/Galz theories.
#1795: I ask about Galz's reactions to the Masons voting him, Swan says he's reconsidering and now thinks Galz is scum.
More me/Galz bickering ensues.
#1826: Swan votes Galz. Not sure if he knew I had just unvoted, might have been a PPE.
#1841: After O makes a Space case, Galz switches to Space. A better bus, certainly. Don't know that he has to bus there though. He's not in as much danger (the only vote left on him is by his scumbuddy)... I mean O is specifically making a case on Space so that's what's on the table, and it's not the worth for scum, but why does scum!Galz not make the effort at this exact moment to make a case on, say, RR ?
#1848: Swan insists on Galz being the Poisoner. Same question as above really.
#1855: Whole post of Space arguing with Galz, ends up proposing a iguana/faust/Eevee/e team. Unlike Galz, I don't think it's that outlandish for scum to propose a full town scumteam (yes faust iguana is in there but this is D4, you can't very well propose a scumteam that doesn't include flipped scum you know), but... well this is a mistake on scum!Space's part really. faust is an unlikely lynch, e could maybe happen but is not as good since he's poisoned: RR is who you should be going for. But the same really applies if faust is scum instead of Galz, so. I think Space was making a strong effort at imitating what their town self would do, and didn't realize the lynch dynamics were not in their favor with this line, regardless of who the 4th scum is.
#1893: Galz votes e, then quickly unvotes remembering Eevee's no result on him N1 (making e not the Poisoner unless Eevee is scum). Eh. Gets him off Space I suppose, but he was still alone there anyway.
#1903: Space voting faust. As I said earlier, a mistake I believe, in any scenario though.
#1906: Galz follows Space on faust. Ok, I mean, maybe. After all, you only need RR to vote. It happened that he didn't, but I guess it's not such a clear mistake for this scumteam. It's not the easiest path to victory probably, but it's a possible one.
#1915: Insisting on Galz, but opening himself to vote faust. In case RR votes, sure.
#1958: The good ole' Space unvote from faust onto Galz. It actually makes sense for this scumteam: RR had just voted Swan, and Space would certainly much rather bus Galz than Swan. Given that RR's vote on Swan was qualified with "for now", I do think scum!Space should stay on faust here to force RR to eventually chose between faust and... Space maybe ? Whomever really. The risk is making RR IC-ish I suppose, but the upside is you almost certainly win, so.... ? Instead this line is basically saying "well, ok, we've lost today, let's try again tomorrow".
#1968: Galz switches to Space. In line with the above really, essentially giving up for the day, which is reasonable now that Space has done so. A bit strange that Swan ends up on Galz given that Space is probably a better bus (since Galz is likely a RB). Except, right, Swan was going for no lynch. No belief in that from Galz here, which is again a fatal mistake from this scumteam given faust's absence... though I don't know how easily Swan and Galz get away with that on the next day. We do have to lynch specifically the Poisoner though, and it's essentially 50% there, so not that bad.
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D5 is towny from Galz, as expected.
Essentially, this scumteam misplayed D4 pretty badly. They did some heavy bussing early on hoping it wouldn't stick (that part worked), then pushed faust, and when that fizzled out, they just kinda gave up. They never opened the door for RR, betting on faust all the way through. It's very possible for this to have happened.
On the other hand, the faust scumteam... I think they played to their outs fairly well. It was unfortunate for them that faust was somewhat absent very late in the day, maybe. They bet on Galz, and Galz looked like a good bet for a while thanks to us, but they could never get the other townies there and O eventually convinced me to follow him on Space.
Though I find Galz's play scummier than faust in the first 3 days... I just think the second scenario is much more likely. I don't see Galz/Space/Swan messing D4 that way, especially with how active Galz was on that day.
Hmmm. The thing that holds me back right now is that Poisoner bid. Galz, when you get here, can you explain your thought process there ? Also interested in RR's opinion on this, since I'd need to convince him if I decide on Galz.
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I've also been overlooking some recent stuff. Like, e failed to block scum.
Robz, if a town JOAT uses his 1-shot roleblock on a scum roleblocker who is targeting him as well as performing a night kill, does the kill go through ?
I've been assuming no, but I guess I should make sure.
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e:
- did not think Galz was scum
- thought Space, DatSwan and faust were scummy
- did not block DatSwan
- barely even mentions RR and Eevee in the voting phase of D4
I mean it's not impossible that he blocked Eevee or RR. It's less likely than him roleblocking faust though.
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Robz, if a scum ROleblocker gets Jailkept, does their Roleblock still goes through ?
In this scenario both the Roleblocker and the Jailkeeper are trying to block someone, and the the person the Jailkeeper is trying to block is the Roleblocker so we have a clear conflict. Roleblocking conflicts are resolved in favor of the Roleblocker, then the 1-Shot Roleblocker, and lastly, the Jailkeeper.
So the Roleblocker would successfully block in your scenario, even if jailed.
Namaste.
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I've also been overlooking some recent stuff. Like, e failed to block scum.
Robz, if a town JOAT uses his 1-shot roleblock on a scum roleblocker who is targeting him as well as performing a night kill, does the kill go through ?
I've been assuming no, but I guess I should make sure.
The kill would go through. The 1-Shot Roleblocker has been blocked by the full Roleblocker, who gets precedence over the 1-Shot Roleblocker. The 1-Shot Roleblocker has not blocked the kill--the full Roleblocker has prevented him from doing so.
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Oh, well ok then. e probably did block correctly, this just absolutely means scum has a full roleblocker. WHich is perhaps slightly more likely in the Galzria scenario, but not as decisive as the e thing. Thanks !
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Well, not "absolutely" but very very likely.
It does also mean Eevee's tracking probably does clean RR anyway. It's entirely possible people have figured this out already and I just missed it, sorry if that's the case.
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Actually: it means faust is almost certainly a roleblocker if scum. Galz could still not be.
Re: faust, I guess he could have the slot Swan claimed and have gone for Rolebocker from there. And iguana really did go Redirector ? But no, because Swan claimed to have gone for Barracks and failing before e did, so they clearly did go for Barracks.
So I guess if faust is scum, he was just interetested in Redirector and either had that as his VT fakeclaim early on or decided later that it would look plausible because of his early interactions with gkrieg on the subject ?
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Yeah, Eevee's result is pretty trustworthy. Because e is so likely to roleblock Swan, any scumteam has to roleblock him. A shame he chose to track RR who could be semi-cleared by interactions anyway.
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Though given that they knew he wasn't roleblocked, they might have just made DatSwan made the two kills, so Eevee can't clear anyone anywya.
This is all irrelevant though.
Waiting for Galz: re his Poisoner bid, mostly.
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Actually: it means faust is almost certainly a roleblocker if scum. Galz could still not be.
Doesn't Eevee's result on RR indicate that he was not roleblocked? Or is there no difference between no result and no target in this game? I feel like this was answered somewhere....
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Actually: it means faust is almost certainly a roleblocker if scum. Galz could still not be.
Doesn't Eevee's result on RR indicate that he was not roleblocked? Or is there no difference between no result and no target in this game? I feel like this was answered somewhere....
It hardly matters because I don't see why you'd roleblock Eevee over e anyway.
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Actually: it means faust is almost certainly a roleblocker if scum. Galz could still not be.
Doesn't Eevee's result on RR indicate that he was not roleblocked? Or is there no difference between no result and no target in this game? I feel like this was answered somewhere....
It hardly matters because I don't see why you'd roleblock Eevee over e anyway.
I suppose there is a point it that.
Another question: Why would scum claim VT as the Roleblocker? Roleblocker's a perfectly safe claim.
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This was my thought process at the time:
Claimed:
LL: Bid 16, Position 6
Galz: Bid 42, Position 4
If I'm Unique, then:
- A) There are 3 Unique Lost Numbers ahead of me.
- B) 16 would need to be out, meaning 3 of: 4, 8, 17 & 23 would need to have unique guesses
- C) Based on votes from last time, that feels highly unlikely, although yes, possible.
If I'm not Unique, then:
- A) I must be a Lost Double. It's conceivable that there's another Lost Double ahead of me, but again highly unlikely.
- B) There would need to be a maximum of 3 Unique guesses (Lost and Non), and there would need to be no other Lost Doubles.
- C) This is all crazy unlikely.
I guess... The fact is, I AM 4 with a guess of 42. That means there's probably 3 Unique Lost guesses ahead of me. That means 16 is probably a double, with 1 potential unique non lost ahead of me... And then LL rolled the better of the two tied spots.
There being 3 Unique Lost numbers ahead of me seems unlikely. But it's either that or I'm the only Lost Double with 3 Unique Lost/Non Lost ahead of me. Neither make sense, but one must be true.
For LL to be telling the truth, if the second scenario were true, there could be no non-lost doubles, and 16 would need to be the first Lost Triple. All of that combined is far less likely than:
For LL to be telling the truth, if the first scenario were true, then there are a total of 4 Unique Lost votes (including mine), but only a maximum of 1 Unique Non-Lost vote. 16 would then be a Lost Double, allowing him a bid of 6. It's possible there are no Unique Non Lost here too - although again, unlikely.
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In regards to your question regarding bids, I'm not sure I follow? I assumed, yes, that there were scum above me. I did not know however if there were 1, 2 or 3 of them, nor which positions. I knew that one of them took Poisoner (hence my disappointment at not getting to take part in that discussion D1 - I wanted to better feel out if that player was townie or scummy), but I didn't know alignment. Once Iguana claimed, I was certain that he was in fact the Poisoner, because his claim and bid made mine make sense - that didn't mean he was town or scum though. I was terrified of the idea that he was SK though, with access to the Candidate thread. I didn't think he would start poisoning N1 in this case, but I did think he could very quickly end game us if one or two candidates died to other means. This is why he would've been my N1 investigation target if I had received it.
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I'm saying why did you go for Poisoner in the first place ?
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And you just described the obvious re: LL, not why you thought that was sufficiently unlikely to softclaim (and claim in the Candidates QT).
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And you just described the obvious re: LL, not why you thought that was sufficiently unlikely to softclaim (and claim in the Candidates QT).
I guess I'm misunderstanding your question then. I thought you were wondering what my thought process was, assuming I only have my own knowledge, in deducing that LL was not telling the truth - ie. Why I questioned his claim with my solo knowledge.
I think I'm still unclear on what you're asking exactly then, if not that.
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I am asking that, and what you describe does not result in "well then LL is lying". It results in "for LL to be telling the there needs to be only 5 unique numbers". To go from that to "then LL is lying" seems like quite the jump to me.
I'm asking this because if you're zscum, there is no jump: you know LL is lying because of Space's bid.
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I'm saying why did you go for Poisoner in the first place ?
I looked at who bid it and from where in the first game. It was won out of my position of 4 for scum by WW. I considered Gunsmith here, but I thought I had a decent chance at Poisoner this game based on bids last game and I would MUCH rather prevent scum from having it then get Gunsmith myself.
I generally consider that I'm a likely candidate (ha) to be NK'd, and thus taking a results receiving role is less to my liking.
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I'm saying why did you go for Poisoner in the first place ?
I looked at who bid it and from where in the first game. It was won out of my position of 4 for scum by WW. I considered Gunsmith here, but I thought I had a decent chance at Poisoner this game based on bids last game and I would MUCH rather prevent scum from having it then get Gunsmith myself.
I generally consider that I'm a likely candidate (ha) to be NK'd, and thus taking a results receiving role is less to my liking.
What did you think scum would go for first ? It was almost guaranteed that some scum was above you right (since they get to coordinate), so what would scum have taken above Poisoner ?
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I am asking that, and what you describe does not result in "well then LL is lying". It results in "for LL to be telling the there needs to be only 5 unique numbers". To go from that to "then LL is lying" seems like quite the jump to me.
I'm asking this because if you're zscum, there is no jump: you know LL is lying because of Space's bid.
That's not the jump though - I WAS draft 4, and bid 42. The absolutely only likely scenario for that to be true is if there were 3 Unique Lost bids above me. As unlikely as that seemed, I had to accept it as truth (no real other ways for me to get to draft 4) - Given that, in order for LL to be 16/6, there could be AT MOST one, single, lonely Unique Non-Lost number bid. Given that so many of the Lost numbers came up Unique, that meant most people were bidding off-Lost. The chances that only a single one of those guesses were unique were extremely small to my mind.
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Hm. They're really not that small though. Three people on 23, three people on one of the Lost numbers, the rest all on low non-Lost numbers.
I don't know. I just would never have claimed in that situation, nor would I have been that doubtful of LL's claim. It seems like way unsufficient information to me, but ok. I guess it helps if you're a VT, since getting NKed is nice then.
Still don't get going for Poisoner as town #4 though.
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I'm saying why did you go for Poisoner in the first place ?
I looked at who bid it and from where in the first game. It was won out of my position of 4 for scum by WW. I considered Gunsmith here, but I thought I had a decent chance at Poisoner this game based on bids last game and I would MUCH rather prevent scum from having it then get Gunsmith myself.
I generally consider that I'm a likely candidate (ha) to be NK'd, and thus taking a results receiving role is less to my liking.
What did you think scum would go for first ? It was almost guaranteed that some scum was above you right (since they get to coordinate), so what would scum have taken above Poisoner ?
Day Vig would be up there - but yes, Poisoner would be a top target too. If scum only rolled draft 3, but not 1/2, I don't know that they would've taken Poisoner.
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Like
1. 8
2. 15
3. 23
4. 42
5. some random non-Lost number
6. 16
7. 16
8. 3
9. 3
10. 3
11. 5
12. 5
13. 5
14. 23
15. 23
16. 23
17. 23
It's not the likeliest scenario, but it's not the only one and it just doesn't seem like a stretch to me. But I guess I didn't expect people to bid stuff like 35 or whatever e's bid was.
PPE: Well, I disagree. As you'll see in my QT, at only one slot below you I just assumed Poisoner was definitely gone and definitely scum's first pick. But I guess that's only because I already had thought about Poisoner in the first iteration (bidding on it and then realizing it was way too strong to still be available at #9)... but you did too, didn't you ?
I guess it's pretty obvious to me that Poisoner was far and away the best thing for scum by a thousand miles (Dayvig is pretty strong, yes, but it's only one extra kill, which is almost guaranteed by Poisoner, but that has a lot of upside as we've seen this game).
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I even forgot about 4 as a lost number above. I mean really, it's just not unlikely at all.
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Wait no, the 23s at the end should be 4s. Whatever, still doesn't seem that outlandish.
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I'm saying why did you go for Poisoner in the first place ?
I looked at who bid it and from where in the first game. It was won out of my position of 4 for scum by WW. I considered Gunsmith here, but I thought I had a decent chance at Poisoner this game based on bids last game and I would MUCH rather prevent scum from having it then get Gunsmith myself.
I generally consider that I'm a likely candidate (ha) to be NK'd, and thus taking a results receiving role is less to my liking.
What did you think scum would go for first ? It was almost guaranteed that some scum was above you right (since they get to coordinate), so what would scum have taken above Poisoner ?
Day Vig would be up there - but yes, Poisoner would be a top target too. If scum only rolled draft 3, but not 1/2, I don't know that they would've taken Poisoner.
I mean, I guess what you're getting at is that you feel I should've been more suspect of iguana - and maybe I should've been. But my thought was that I knew that I, as town, went for it with a high draft pick and that I, as town, definitely would've taken it from draft #1, so it didn't seem impossible that iguana, as town did so also.
I feel like that's where WW was at D1 as well, and it looks like he bid Poisoner from Draft #2. I wasn't completely unsuspicious of Iguana - certainly the whole reason I went for it was to try and block scum from a power I knew they would want. But having the role itself or being bid 1 isn't strictly alignment indicative. If it was we would've lynched Iguana D1.
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Wait no, the 23s at the end should be 4s. Whatever, still doesn't seem that outlandish.
I guess we just disagree - I find it unlikely that amongst 10 players they didn't come up with a single other non lost unique guess.
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I guess what you're having trouble with, and it just doesn't seem to have bothered me is that: I looked at where Poisoner was bid and won last game (4), and thought I would have a decent chance from the same position this game, whereas you feel that position had no chance at winning it and thus, if made by town, is a wasted bid.
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Well, I still have to vote faust I think.
Among the things I haven't mentioned yet pulling me that way:
DatSwan investigating Galz N1. If Galz is scum, it means Swan investigating someone else and fakeclaimed a result on his partner for the slightest towncred, which... seems a bit much, frankly. I mean you're risking getting caught by a Tracker or a Watcher for very little gain.
faust's attitude D5/D6. He just seems defeated, and the only way that makes sense if he's scum. Part of it is surely that he doesn't have a lot of time to play because of IRL stuff, but mostly it's just that this situation is a depressing one to be as scum, whereas it's not at all depressing as town. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and it's just faust being unable to give the game his full attention but, it's a small factor.
Then there's my survival. I didn't really talk much about Galz on D5, but still, scum!Galz has to assume I'm more likely to vote him than O given how D4 (and the game in general) went. Now yes, there's WIFOM but... it's generally not worth WIFOMing at lylo in scum's kills. Overestiamting scum's willingness to WIFOM incidentally being how scum!Galz won this in M100.
With that said:
vote: faust
Sorry if I got it wrong, town. Trust me, you don't feel nearly as bad about it as I do, because I really, really don't want to see Galz hoodwinking us twice in a row (well, not really but you get it). But here we go.
So, Galz. Do you win ? Well, more importantly, do I lose ?
PPE: My point is more that I'm doubtful town!you makes that choice instead of a pro-town role you're much more likely to get. But obviously ont enough to change my mind.
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I guess what you're having trouble with, and it just doesn't seem to have bothered me is that: I looked at where Poisoner was bid and won last game (4), and thought I would have a decent chance from the same position this game, whereas you feel that position had no chance at winning it and thus, if made by town, is a wasted bid.
Yes.
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I'm town
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I'm town
So I hope so! Lol
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Well, I'd be extremely surprised if RR is scum and bow down to his superior, incomprehensible scum play, so I'm fine with that.
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Also, this means O deserves all the praise in the world for directing us away from you on D4. It was pretty close.
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Well, I'd be extremely surprised if RR is scum and bow down to his superior, incomprehensible scum play, so I'm fine with that.
I know. But there's still a small bit of fear in me over it. There's individual pieces of his play where I think "that's so scum"... But the whole doesn't add up.
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Also, this means O deserves all the praise in the world for directing us away from you on D4. It was pretty close.
Hey, something we agree on! :P
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Assuming it is faust, we all deserve a nice pad on the back for lynching nothing but scum D2 and on.
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Or a pat. Whichever.
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Also, for the record:
I think the decision for town!Iguana to poison was in fact his own to make. I wouldn't, obviously, and wouldn't want him to - but I would at least hear him out had he decided to do so. Although he absolutely would've needed to tell us D2 and not lie about it.
I find the difference in attitude amongst players regarding Poisoner vs Vig interesting also. I brought it up D1 because I was genuinely surprised, and thought scum could be trying to muddy the waters - it seemed very clear to me that if you supported a Vig shooting you should support a Poisoner shooting. I'm apparently in the wrong on my beliefs of others beliefs though!
Still, I really didn't want to keep it going. I just felt that every time I tried to drop it you attacked me over it again - and as I was town and what you were suggesting I was implying was absolutely inaccurate - it was hard. Still, I do wish we hadn't gotten so bogged down in that. Sorry.
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Assuming it is faust, we all deserve a nice pad on the back for lynching nothing but scum D2 and on.
You had some interesting thoughts about what you believed I would do as scum throughout the game (well, more in the latter half), and most of the time I thought "umm... no." - but more that I don't feel your beliefs matched my MO - not that it was impossible.
Did you really think that after M100 where I was 0% accurate from a town perspective on lynches that I would flip to 100% accurate this game?
Did you really think D5 that I would come out, as scum, and make my lynch preference of DatSwan clear well prior to the Masons saying as such?
Did... Oh, I don't remember. There was SO much that I was just like... "but... but... no way that's scum me!"
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Well, I admittedly didn't remember you had a terrible voting record in M100. My reference for your scum game is still M2, which, yeah, is old. To me, scum!Galz is super townie. And yeah, I thought you would bus hard on D5, definitely. I think it was very obvious that Swan was the lynch, and I think faust only puished RR because he thought bussing Swan was the obvious play. And yeah, the added benefit of maybe winning, but mostly that. I could be entirely off though. I was obviously quite wrong about you basically all game, so.
The poisoner thing, it was you bringing it up again on D2 and insisting on it that I found scummy. I just couldn't see what the point of dfiscussing it before D3 was.
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For your reading (dis)pleasure:
The Masons QT[/b]
And [url=https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/5GuaF9ajx7j]my own[/b].
Featured: me completely blanking on Galz's claim in the Candidates QT, and thinking Masons was only daychat until late D2. (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/XT9m2XJQTKcC)
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Masons (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/XT9m2XJQTKcC)
Teproc (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/5GuaF9ajx7j)
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Vote Count 6.Final
faust (3): Galzria, RoadRunner7671, Teproc
Galzria (1): faust
With 4 alive it took 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends Thursday, October 26 at 5:00 PM.
ALERT ALERT: DHARMA INITIATIVE EMERGENCY. THE HOSTILES HAVE BREACHED THE PERIMETER. The Hostiles have...
Oh, you seem to have lynched a suspect. But were you right? If not, there's a mass grave waiting with our names on it...
Faust has been crossed off Jacob's List. He was Walt Lloyd, the Others Goon.
GAME OVER. CRASH SURVIVORS WIN! NAMASTE.
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Yay !
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I didn't follow the game much, but it is pretty great if you think really hard and long about something and end up being right. Well done!
2400 posts seems worthy of the setup.
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faust was a Goon ? Who did e block then ?
I did think scum not claiming Roleblocker was weird but between that and N1, I was sure there was a roleblocker...
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I didn't follow the game much, but it is pretty great if you think really hard and long about something and end up being right. Well done!
2400 posts seems worthy of the setup.
Yes, nothing more satistying. I think it's the first time I get it right at lylo, too. Not that I was needed, since RR and Galz were on it anyway.
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Neat.
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Geeeeeezzzz... I was nervous for a scum!RR lol.
Yaaay! This was a hair-thinning game!
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/NXuscBFYmEUW
My QT, wherein I call the entire scum team N3, but don't have any confidence in my reads the entire game.
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For the record:
On the topic of QT quoting - I wasn't around for the game Teproc referenced. Back when we played before, linking from personal QT's was acceptable. I believe Robz missed out on the issues that presents as well, and thus, like me, harking back to a time long ago didn't forsee the problem.
I DO see the issues with it - however exactly where a line should be drawn is tough. No quoting from any QT's? Ok, fine. I'll write all my night thoughts in a separate notepad and post from there. No quoting from any outside sources? Ok, I'll write my night thoughts in a game thread post box and choose whether or not I want to post them once the day starts.
I'm not trying to "break" a system that I think is a good one to have... but where is the line drawn?
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I didn't follow the game much, but it is pretty great if you think really hard and long about something and end up being right. Well done!
2400 posts seems worthy of the setup.
Yes, nothing more satistying. I think it's the first time I get it right at lylo, too. Not that I was needed, since RR and Galz were on it anyway.
It's harder for you than it is for us. We're looking at only two scenarios. You've still got 3 to consider.
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I didn't follow the game much, but it is pretty great if you think really hard and long about something and end up being right. Well done!
2400 posts seems worthy of the setup.
Yes, nothing more satistying. I think it's the first time I get it right at lylo, too. Not that I was needed, since RR and Galz were on it anyway.
It's harder for you than it is for us. We're looking at only two scenarios. You've still got 3 to consider.
And once RR was ruled out, Faust and I had default votes. You still needed to figure it out.
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1. Datswan - 8
2. Jimmmm - 15
3. Space - 16
4. Galzria - 42
5. Teproc - 7
6. Lalight - 14
7. Roadrunner - 35
8. IDP - 51
9. 2.7 - 73
10. Faust - 23
11. Gkrieg - 23
12. Qvist - 5
13. Eevee - 5
14. O - 3
15. Iguana - 3
16. Witherweaver - 3
17. Archetype - 3
The Hydra (Station One)
Jailkeeper {LaLight #6}
Godfather
The Arrow (Station Two)
Strongman (Others and SM only)
Gunsmith
The Swan (Station Three)
Masons (Town only) {Teproc #5} {IDontPlayThisGame #8} {WitherWeaver #16}
Bomb
The Flame (Station Four)
Role Cop
1-Shot Day Vigilante
The Pearl (Station Five)
Watcher <b>{SpaceAnemonie #3} {Roadrunner #7}
Investigation Immune
The Orchid (Station Six)
2-Shot Redirector gkrieg #11} {iguanaiguana #15}
Summon “Mother” (SM only)
The Staff (Station Seven)
Doctor
1-Shot Kill Proof
The Looking Glass (Station Eight)
Roleblocker
Bodyguard
The Tempest (Station Nine)
Poisoner {Datswan #1} {Galzria #4}
Ninja (Others and SM only)
The Lamp Post (Station Ten)
Double Shot Candidate Cop
Tracker {Eevee #13}
The Statue of Tawret
Protector of the Island {Qvist #12}
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
The Bamboo Forest
Last Recruit {O #14}
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town only) {Jimmmmm #2}
The Cabin
1-Shot Disabler
Night 3 Forensic Scientist {Archetype #17}
The Dharma Initiative Barracks {2.7 #9} {faust #10}
Random - Investigation Immune
Random - Godfather
Random - JOAT
1. Datswan - You are Juliet Burke, the Others-aligned Poisoner. Your fake flavor claim is Mr. Eko. You are a Candidate.[/b]
2. Jimmmm - You are Aaron Littleton, the Crash Survivors-aligned Day 2 Innocent Child. Your fake flavor claim is Rose Nadler.
3. Space - You are Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher. Your fake flavor claim is Ana-Lucia Cortez.
4. Galzria - You are Bernard Nadler, the Vanilla Crash Survivor. You are a Candidate.
5. Teproc - You are Sun Kwon, the Crash Survivors-aligned Mason. Your fake flavor claim is Claire Littleton. You are a Candidate.
6. Lalight - You are the Smoke Monster impersonating Sayid Jarrah, the Jailkeeper. Your fake flavor claim is Alex Rousseau.
7. Roadrunner - You are Nikki, the Vanilla Crash Survivor.
8. IDP - You are Charlie Pace, the Vanilla Crash Survivor.
9. 2.7 - You are Tom Friendly, the Crash Survivors-aligned Jack of all Trades. Your fake flavor claim is Frank Lapidus. You are a Candidate.
10. Faust - You are Walt Lloyd, the Others Goon.
11. Gkrieg - You are Daniel Faraday, the Crash Survivors-aligned 2-Shot Redirector. Your fake flavor claim is Libby.
12. Qvist - You are Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, the Protector of the Island. Your fake flavor claim is Cindy Chandler.
13. Eevee - You are Eloise Hawking, the Crash Survivors-aligned Tracker. Your fake flavor claim is Dr. Leslie Arzt. You are a Candidate.
14. O - You are Jin Kwon, the Crash Survivors-aligned Mason. Your fake flavor claim is Paolo.
15. Iguana - You are Naomi, the Others Goon. You are a Candidate.
16. Witherweaver - You are Shannon Rutherford, the Vanilla Crash Survivor.
17. Archetype - You are Miles Straume, the Crash Survivors-aligned Night 3 Forensic Scientist. Your fake claim is Michael Dawson.
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Right, so QT quoting.
Let's say you're scum, and you invent your little bit of N5 QT to convince me you're town. Now I ask you "ok, quote the rest. The whole thing. Oh, and by the way, faust should do that too".
Now, you'r eonline, so if you're scum and you don't have a whole QT you've been keeping as town the entire game, you're screwed.
faust/RR gets to write it, but it's gotta be very, very hard.
The rules are not a problem. All you say is "don't claim to quote from an outside source. You can still do vote counts, post counts, word documen,ts and actualm QT quoting, as long as you don't say that's what it is.
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Ah, I guess I should have gone Gunsmith. The thing is, I don't like being an investigative role, and Mason, while less powerful, just suits me better. As I said in my QT, I would have felt more comfortable being lower in bidding order really.
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Spectator QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/eiwZ5AMuemNhU
Others QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/aQ6H2MYMfNRLQ
NIGHT 1 ACTIONS
Eevee tracks 2.7: No Result
LaLight jails gkrieg
Lalight checks gkrieg: Not a Candidate
DatSwan poisons Jimmm, Jimmm is poisoned
DatSwan investigates Galzria: Not the Smoke Monster
SpaceAnemone watches faust: No Result
SpaceAnemone kills Witherweaver
NIGHT 2 ACTIONS
SpaceAnemone watches gkrieg, is redirected to watch Galz, result: "gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Qvist"
DatSwan poisons chairs, chairs is poisoned
Iguana shoots Galzria, this fails because of protect candidates
gkrieg redirects gkrieg to Galzria
Qvist protects candidates (Galzria, iguana, DatSwan, Teproc, 2.7, Eevee)
Eevee tracks Qvist, result: "Galzria, iguana, DatSwan, Teproc, 2.7, Eevee"
Jimmmmm succumbs to poison
NIGHT 3 ACTIONS
SpaceAnemone watches Galzria, result: No Result
DatSwan kills gkrieg, gkrieg dies
DatSwan poisons 2.7, 2.7 is poisoned
chairs investigates Jimmmm, result: DatSwan
chairs succumbs to poison
Eevee tracks SpaceAnemone, result: Galzria
NIGHT 4 ACTIONS
Eevee tracks RoadRunner, result: No Result
DatSwan poisons O, O is poisoned
DatSwan kills Qvist, Qvist dies
2.7 succumbs to poison
NIGHT 5 ACTIONS
faust kills Eevee, Eevee dies
Eevee tracks Galzria, result: No Result
O succumbs to poison
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Ah, Faust DID go Barracks. Makes those two quotes make sense.
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e.... didn't block.
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Whoooo - Qvist, nice save on me!
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e.... didn't block.
What the ?
Blocking Swan would have almost won the game right there.
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Also, Gkrieg, your redirect from yourself to me N2 is interesting. Did you forsee me being protected in some way? Were you doing it as self-preservation? Or was there a different reason?
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I wish I'd played. I would've gone for Flame, which nobody else did (at least as Town) - 1-shot dayvig yes pls.
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So! No one has gone for Doctor, or any Cop role, in any of these drafting games I've run (Mafia 100, Mafia 108 Original, and Mafia 108 Restart). That's something.
Town played great, obviously. Scum was also playing quite well until the pivotal Space lynch. LL, I'm honestly not sure what he did wrong Day 1, until his number mistake. Day 2 he made several errors.
I agree the Poisoner is too strong. I quite like the role, though. I came up with a nerf for it that I quite like: In the future, it will be 2-Shot, and a poisoned player will be informed the morning after they have been poisoned that "you are beginning to feel ill."
Teproc is MVP, for excellent play throughout, and making the correct call in the end. And it was a tough call, I think. I actually found the case against Galz quite persuasive. O is fully deserving of sharing credit here, he had terrific reads the whole game. If I could award co-MVPs, they would both get it. The Masons really won this game for town.
2.7 deserves a nod for spectacularly nailing DatSwan and faust dead to rights on the day Space got lynched, though his decision not to block DatSwan made the game no longer a guaranteed town win.
I also have to praise Qvist for his skillful and well-timed Protect Candidates play.
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e.... didn't block.
What the ?
Blocking Swan would have almost won the game right there.
Don't worry, we chewed him out in the speccy for that. ;)
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woooooooooooooooooooo
Felt so good about the Space lynch -- until I learned that 2 of the other lynch candidates also were fine and "don't lynch Galzria" was the main requirement.
e thinking he'd survive a night was a pretty big mistake, but overall he (and the rest of town) played out LYLO quite well.
Still think poisoner is IMBA
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I wish I'd played. I would've gone for Flame, which nobody else did (at least as Town) - 1-shot dayvig yes pls.
That should've been my bid from draft 4. I probably would've A) been too scared to use it until this final day (when it wouldn't have mattered anyway), or b) used it D5 on Swan (when it wouldn't have mattered much anyway) - assuming I wasn't forced to use it D4 after mass-claiming (and on who? I don't even know how that plays out).
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So! No one has gone for Doctor, or any Cop role, in any of these drafting games I've run (Mafia 100, Mafia 108 Original, and Mafia 108 Restart). That's something.
Town played great, obviously. Scum was also playing quite well until the pivotal Space lynch. LL, I'm honestly not sure what he did wrong Day 1, until his number mistake. Day 2 he made several errors.
I agree the Poisoner is too strong. I quite like the role, though. I came up with a nerf for it that I quite like: In the future, it will be 2-Shot, and a poisoned player will be informed the morning after they have been poisoned that "you are beginning to feel ill."
Teproc is MVP, for excellent play throughout, and making the correct call in the end. And it was a tough call, I think. I actually found the case against Galz quite persuasive. O is fully deserving of sharing credit here, he had terrific reads the whole game. If I could award co-MVPs, they would both get it. The Masons really won this game for town.
2.7 deserves a nod for spectacularly nailing DatSwan and faust dead to rights on the day Space got lynched, though his decision not to block DatSwan made the game no longer a guaranteed town win.
I also have to praise Qvist for his skillful and well-timed Protect Candidates play.
I would go further, and just announce in the morning to everyone who has been poisoned. Then there begin to be more substantial tradeoffs and less LYLO shenanigans.
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So! No one has gone for Doctor, or any Cop role, in any of these drafting games I've run (Mafia 100, Mafia 108 Original, and Mafia 108 Restart). That's something.
Town played great, obviously. Scum was also playing quite well until the pivotal Space lynch. LL, I'm honestly not sure what he did wrong Day 1, until his number mistake. Day 2 he made several errors.
I agree the Poisoner is too strong. I quite like the role, though. I came up with a nerf for it that I quite like: In the future, it will be 2-Shot, and a poisoned player will be informed the morning after they have been poisoned that "you are beginning to feel ill."
Teproc is MVP, for excellent play throughout, and making the correct call in the end. And it was a tough call, I think. I actually found the case against Galz quite persuasive. O is fully deserving of sharing credit here, he had terrific reads the whole game. If I could award co-MVPs, they would both get it. The Masons really won this game for town.
2.7 deserves a nod for spectacularly nailing DatSwan and faust dead to rights on the day Space got lynched, though his decision not to block DatSwan made the game no longer a guaranteed town win.
I also have to praise Qvist for his skillful and well-timed Protect Candidates play.
Well done Teproc - I think I would've personally voted for O here, but my bias is that I would be dead and town lost otherwise. :P Aside from your read on me though, well deserved.
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Yes, scum's path to victory was getting a Galz mislynch... something that seemed very possible, and indeed, likely, at various stages of the game.
2.7 was not the only one to pull a punch, by the way. Gkrieg was thinking of using redirection to protect himself and redirect to faust, and then he didn't. Which doomed him, when it could have killed faust.
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Yes, scum's path to victory was getting a Galz mislynch... something that seemed very possible, and indeed, likely, at various stages of the game.
2.7 was not the only one to pull a punch, by the way. Gkrieg was thinking of using redirection to protect himself and redirect to faust, and then he didn't. Which doomed him, when it could have killed faust.
I fear dying at night far more than I do during the day. I believe that (in general) I'm tougher to lynch than scum gave credit for.
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Yes, scum's path to victory was getting a Galz mislynch... something that seemed very possible, and indeed, likely, at various stages of the game.
2.7 was not the only one to pull a punch, by the way. Gkrieg was thinking of using redirection to protect himself and redirect to faust, and then he didn't. Which doomed him, when it could have killed faust.
I fear dying at night far more than I do during the day. I believe that (in general) I'm tougher to lynch than scum gave credit for.
That is to say, I'm confident enough in myself that if given the chance to speak, I believe I can avoid being the lynch far more often than not.
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Yes, scum's path to victory was getting a Galz mislynch... something that seemed very possible, and indeed, likely, at various stages of the game.
2.7 was not the only one to pull a punch, by the way. Gkrieg was thinking of using redirection to protect himself and redirect to faust, and then he didn't. Which doomed him, when it could have killed faust.
I fear dying at night far more than I do during the day. I believe that (in general) I'm tougher to lynch than scum gave credit for.
That is to say, I'm confident enough in myself that if given the chance to speak, I believe I can avoid being the lynch far more often than not.
Sure, sure, that's an advantage you have, and you put it to good use here. But I think there was a good argument for you being scum here, plus the memory of Mafia 100.
By the way, I wonder if Poisoner seemed so broken because scum got reeeeeeeeally lucky with it. They Poisoned the Innocent Child before they even knew it was an Innocent Child, they poisoned the Night 3 FI--who was going to automatically find the Poisoner--by sheer luck, right when they needed to... and then even 2.7 was decently lucky (although there was some skill with that choice, too). I mean, there was skill going into it as well, I don't mean to say it was all luck.
I was really impressed with Iguana claiming Poisoner and then surviving all the way to Day 3, and then sort of tricking town into quicklynching him.
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O, ye of little faith in the speccy ! I don't let paranoia get the better of me, not at lylo anyway.
@Robz. Thanks ! Half-expected you to go for a shared MVP because Galz being town means O really saved our asses on D4. Major props to Qvist for his optimization of PotI too.
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Is shared MVP allowed? If so, absolutely, Teproc and O share MVP.
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D4 was so great. I mean yeah, lynching Swan would have been better e, but having it being so protracted means all the info we needed to get the scumteam was there. It wasn't 100% definitive between Galz and faust, but it was enough. Also, we still had a shot at escaping lylo if you blocked a kill.
PPE: I, mean, I don't know why it wouldn't be ? It makes sense to me in the case of Masons specifically, but I guess you can ask ash & other mods, they'd be the ones in charge of that I suppose.
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Yes, scum's path to victory was getting a Galz mislynch... something that seemed very possible, and indeed, likely, at various stages of the game.
2.7 was not the only one to pull a punch, by the way. Gkrieg was thinking of using redirection to protect himself and redirect to faust, and then he didn't. Which doomed him, when it could have killed faust.
I fear dying at night far more than I do during the day. I believe that (in general) I'm tougher to lynch than scum gave credit for.
That is to say, I'm confident enough in myself that if given the chance to speak, I believe I can avoid being the lynch far more often than not.
Sure, sure, that's an advantage you have, and you put it to good use here. But I think there was a good argument for you being scum here, plus the memory of Mafia 100.
By the way, I wonder if Poisoner seemed so broken because scum got reeeeeeeeally lucky with it. They Poisoned the Innocent Child before they even knew it was an Innocent Child, they poisoned the Night 3 FI--who was going to automatically find the Poisoner--by sheer luck, right when they needed to... and then even 2.7 was decently lucky (although there was some skill with that choice, too). I mean, there was skill going into it as well, I don't mean to say it was all luck.
I was really impressed with Iguana claiming Poisoner and then surviving all the way to Day 3, and then sort of tricking town into quicklynching him.
Oh, certainly. And I think Teproc saw that D4 - both the confidence "You won't lynch me anyway", and the fear "Well, this is how this ends". I recognize that there was much outside my control that made for a solid case against me - similar to how Space's play D4 really put the screws to Swan D5. There are things I can't argue, and Teproc had some good points. Some things in my control he's also completely within rights to find me scummy for. I pointed to a quote D1 by LL that had WW and Eevee seconds apart saying "Sure sounds like scum"/"Totally not scum here" - everybody reads things differently. There was definitely a case against me, and I definitely COULD have been the lynch that day. I just think scum overestimated the ease with which that would occur.
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Time for the spoils! Gotta go read all the extra QT's!
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That was a lively speccy. Always sucks to see dead speccys when a game is over, so that's nice, fun read. And I might always be wrong about WW, but at least he was wrong about me too.
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Shared MVP seems right. I had a very important gutshot movement away from Galzria -- and Teproc did basically everything else worth mentioning.
It's interesting being pair as mason with someone that really puts in line by line rereading work in scumhunting, while I'm someone who relies a lot more on instinctual (some might even describe it as "lazy") scumhunting.
Datswan lynch d4 is probably objectively ideal -- props to those with the early scumreads. I wonder if we would have successfully gotten Space, though.
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I recognize that there was much outside my control that made for a solid case against me - similar to how Space's play D4 really put the screws to Swan D5.
I think Swan just had to hammer there, not sure if it's on Space. Staying off is so much scummier than just not hammering scum is normally. There was no remotely viable scumteam to argue for being on the wagon -- especially given Datswans immediate acceptance of the Mason claim -- which was necessary for a town!DS to think that Space was town. So in my head it was simply "either Datswan misplayed this AWFULLY or he was scum", and the simpler answer was that he was just scum.
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@Robz alternatively -- poisoner as is can actually just replace the standard night kill... I bet that would be suuper flavorful mafia given the right show/book.
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Iguana, Datswan thinks you were pissed at him in the speccy thread - I'm just not seeing it. He thinks /m177 was about the entire game... and I think you were just jokingly replying to O about who the last scum was (following his accidental spoiler-y entry that you (to my view) played off of). Care to enlighten?
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Is there a mod QT to read Robz ? I love mod QTs.
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Is there a mod QT to read Robz ? I love mod QTs.
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Also, Gkrieg, your redirect from yourself to me N2 is interesting. Did you forsee me being protected in some way? Were you doing it as self-preservation? Or was there a different reason?
If you look at the speccy, I read you as scum at that point. I debated between you and Faust, and the night I died was going to redirect onto Faust, but chose not to.
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Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/7Ly6JNXELeWUP?m1=-1&mN=-1
I scrubbed the links to individual QTs. If you want to share yours, go ahead.
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Ah! Just woke up! GG everyone ! Was fun!
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Fun fact: this is the first time (in 29 normal games) that RR has survived a game. Note that I consider "engamed" as not surviving (since we're really just skipping over your death at this point).
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Is it also the largest consecutive scum lynch?
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Is it also the largest consecutive scum lynch?
are we counting 4 or 5 here
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As your journey on the island has come to a close, you may go on to live out your lives but one thing is for sure none of you will forget your time here. In fact this has been such a special moment even in afterlife your souls seek each-other out to move on together.
Aaron(Jimm), Bernard(Galzria), Nikki(Roadrunner), Sayid(Lalight), Penelope(Spaceanemonie), and Juliet(Datswan) all waited patiently at the church. They had arrived early as they had no unfinished business, no secondary tasks to be completed before moving on.
Sun(Teproc) knew she would not be going, despite working tirelessly to protect the island the loss of her husband Jin had left her devastated. She would not be going to the church, she would could not be happy, if only it had been her...
Jin(O) on the other hand raced to the church, proud as can be he was not always a perfect husband but he reformed, his anger turned to passion, his love for his wife was stronger than anything one could feel for another. The island had given him that, along with many other relationships that helped shape the person he became. As he arrived at the church greeted by the smiles of his friends he couldn't help but notice she was missing. Happy yet sad at the same time, that final day he thought, wouldn't it have been perfect if we had gotten it done one day earlier.
Hurley(Qvist) almost couldn't believe his eyes. For once he wasn't just seeing things, he was truly there with them. Surrounded by his friends Hurley thought to himself what a lucky man he was, he spent a long time protecting the island after his friends had gone but he would never forget them. Saving the life of the ones he loved would always be the achievement he valued most, getting to be with them for eternity his reward.
Tom Friendly(2.7) was a good man. He had many misunderstandings with the inhabitants of the island, both old and new. He may not have done as much as he could have for these people he saw around him but at least I didn't hurt them he thought. What was important was that he was here now with them and all had been forgiven.
Danial Faraday(Gkreig) was distraught. Wasn't he supposed to be somewhere. He tried to remember but just as he though he had it the memory would slip away. So close yet so far.
Eloise(Eevee) had searched for days and days, she had helped the crash survivors more than once and knew she could go but what good was it. Her son would not be there, she would not find him there just as she could not find him on the island.
Miles(Chairs) was confident, he knew where they would be, he knew from speaking to those that passed exactly what he needed to do. He began to walk the path, upon seeing the church he was overjoyed, the sight of it took his breath away. However as he tried to regain his composure he felt his throat tickle, he began to cough more and more violently as black mucus filled his throat. The poison! Even here how could it reach him, if only he had more time he could make it to the church he knew he could. But sadly it would not be, as he gasped his final breath he could do nothing but curl up on the ground as stare as the church faded from view.
Shanon(Witherweaver) loved her time on the island. It was like a vacation for her, she hoped she would get to see her friends again at the church. She had called a limo earlier that morning and was hoping it would arrive soon, she was getting quite impatient waiting. Just then she saw the stream of a black car pull up, she hurriedly grabbed her things and jumped into the car. To the church please she said to the driver as she to began to feel a tickle in her throat. Everything alright miss? Oh its just my asthma acting up, I'm sure I put my inhaler somewhere. Panic began to set in as she rummaged through her things, in her excitement she had forgotten to pack her inhaler. She gasped for air and felt more and more lightheaded with every breath, sadly she could not hold out, she would not see her firends again.
The island had saved Charlie(IDP). His time there was the best time of his life, it gave him purpose then and it gave him purpose now. Pulling open the doors to the church he embraced his friends.
Walt(Faust) had a rough time on the island. He enjoyed his time there but he felt very alone. All his closest friends had been taken away from him, only vincent was there to keep him company. Vincent! Vincent! He called out but could not find him. It seems he had forgotten to look for Vincent, he set off immediately to once again search for Vincent, his thought were not on the church or the people there.
Naomi(Iguana) didn't know if she would be welcome at the church. She had an amazing time on the island but she certainly didn't want to help the other castaways while she was there. Would there be a place for her amongst them now? She stood on the steps of the church pondering to herself what her time on the island truly meant. It was about being together, whats done is done, she confidently opened the door and walked in only to be greeted with joyous calls from the crash survivors, of course there was a place for her. She may have lied to them but in the end it all worked out.
Congratulations to O, Qvist, 2.7, IDP, and Iguana for completing their secondary win conditions!!! Special shoutout to Qvist who was the only person to have a secondary wincon requiring him to do something. Interesting Strategy from 2.7, if I don't use my shot I can't be seen using it. Iguana can thank Faust who despite having the most phases possible to search for Vincent he forgot and became the 6th person along with Teproc, Gkrieg, Eevee, Chairs, and Witherweaver to fail a secondary wincon thus allowing Iguana to succeed. Apologies to Jimm, Galz, Roadrunner, Lalight, Spaceanemonie, and Datswan whos secondary wincons were not possible to complete due to the setup. Finally thanks to you all for playing and entertaining me for the past couple months.
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Is it also the largest consecutive scum lynch?
Yes. This is only the 9th normal game with 5+ scum though. M6 had 4 in a row, and M12 (aka Robz's mega game, first of his name) had two runs of 3.
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I ended every single day start to finish voting scum. Don't think I've ever done that in a game in which I lived to completion.
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I ended every single day start to finish voting scum. Don't think I've ever done that in a game in which I lived to completion.
Damn deadline shenanigans forcing me off LaLight
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I ended every single day start to finish voting scum. Don't think I've ever done that in a game in which I lived to completion.
Damn deadline shenanigans forcing me off LaLight
actually I was AFK during the Iguana lynch aswell, nevermind.
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I ended every single day start to finish voting scum. Don't think I've ever done that in a game in which I lived to completion.
Damn deadline shenanigans forcing me off LaLight
There were 8 whole minutes left until deadline when you voted IDPTG! Plenty of time to see that LL lynch through!
... But then, we probably wouldn't have had this cool 5-scum lynch record, and hell, might not have even won. So good job O! Making the right choices when it mattered most all game long. :P
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Iguana, Datswan thinks you were pissed at him in the speccy thread - I'm just not seeing it. He thinks /m177 was about the entire game... and I think you were just jokingly replying to O about who the last scum was (following his accidental spoiler-y entry that you (to my view) played off of). Care to enlighten?
What? This was a great game. Town played great and deserved to win. Good job guys. I had fun losing.
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IDPTG being a VT was very fortunate. WW too.
Funny, there were 4 VT in this game: 2 of them didn't make it to D2 while the other two survived all the way to the end.
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Having read the scum QT now...
Wow, did you guys not realize it was MyLo before I brought it up in thread D4? That would explain the feeling of lack of coordination on the day I thought for sure you should win. I just really thought you guys would've known and planned for it.
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Ha! Interesting note:
All 3 Barracks slots from Game 1 were independently chosen town picks this game!
2nd Day IC
2 Shot Redirctor
Protector of the Island
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On that subject, I'm curious what Jimmm's reasoning is for Day 2 IC at #2. I mean I'm glad he didn't go for Masons but that seems strictly better to me already, and then there are investigative roles and JK too.
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So, unfortunately the Candidate thing didn't come in to play very much, because LL died so early. I do think this is a really interesting mechanic, having the SK win con being to kill some number of specific players. I hope to re-use it in a future game.
I think the slots/PRs could be used again as is, with a few changes--nerfing the Poisoner, maybe putting the cop role in bright gold size 18 font.
I might run a similar setup, plus a few tweaks, after New Years rolls around (which is when the book I'm writing is due). I am also holding off on playing in another game until then.
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On that subject, I'm curious what Jimmm's reasoning is for Day 2 IC at #2. I mean I'm glad he didn't go for Masons but that seems strictly better to me already, and then there are investigative roles and JK too.
I also questioned this, but IC is a good role for Jimmm, who tends to live a long time and is like never the Night 1 kill.
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Oh, and I have no good answer for how the QT quoting thing should work in the future. Also note that O and Teproc had devised a strategy to 100% confirm themselves as Masons, that was technically within the rules.
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Re: Gunsmith: Robz, it's not that people don't realize it's good. It's just that it's a risk... really the only people who could have reasonably gone for it were Jimmm, Galz and me, anyone below just can't expect it to be there precisely because it's strong. Now the really low people can try for whatever because of this (as Eevee did), but it's not that surprising that some of the strongest town roles don't get picked, especially because scum dominates the first half of the draft order.
I do like the Candidates thing yeah. As you speculated in the Mod QT, there starts to be some interesting tension if the SK lives long enogh. In this case, candidates had an impressive lifespan.
Re the masons confirming thing, it only works if Masons are the only possible daychat, but sure it's a bit of a concern. Didn't end up doing it because it wasn't really needed and it was actually kind of hard to coordinate with the timezone differences between O and I.
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Woo, I did not mess up. I am still so confused why faust survived so long. His hesitation to claim was just so obvious.
So I am very happy, not only because I got my wincon but also helped town to win.
Congrats to Teproc and O.
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Hahaha - Robz and Mcmc mimicking Teproc and me in the mod QT is hilarious.
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The Mod QT was great D4-D6.
Also, loved the idea of Iguana claiming to poison LL. Fantastic.
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/m96 of the Masons thread N3 from Teproc is great:
"Main suspects for me are faust, gkrieg, chairs, by PoE mostly. Given my track record so far in this game I half expect two of those three to turn up dead tomorrow"
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e.... didn't block.
What the ?
Blocking Swan would have almost won the game right there.
Yeah, my bad....
But thanks for winning the game for us anyway!
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Gg all. This was fun times.
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Having read the scum QT now...
Wow, did you guys not realize it was MyLo before I brought it up in thread D4? That would explain the feeling of lack of coordination on the day I thought for sure you should win. I just really thought you guys would've known and planned for it.
We did not realize a lot of things. :P
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Iguana, Datswan thinks you were pissed at him in the speccy thread - I'm just not seeing it. He thinks /m177 was about the entire game... and I think you were just jokingly replying to O about who the last scum was (following his accidental spoiler-y entry that you (to my view) played off of). Care to enlighten?
What? This was a great game. Town played great and deserved to win. Good job guys. I had fun losing.
I looked at this. I meant what Galz thought I meant. Datswan played well for a first scum and I enjoyed being on his team.
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I think our biggest problem was not paying enough attention and missing the LyLo potential. Our claims could have gone very differently otherwise.
Also, as said in the scum QT, the ruling on Qvist being a targeting role was scandalous.
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Woo, I did not mess up. I am still so confused why faust survived so long. His hesitation to claim was just so obvious.
The only reason to do it was for towncred though.
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Having read the scum QT now...
Wow, did you guys not realize it was MyLo before I brought it up in thread D4? That would explain the feeling of lack of coordination on the day I thought for sure you should win. I just really thought you guys would've known and planned for it.
Heh.. It was kind of a subtle thing from my perspective, because there were too many caveats and too many towns alive to lynch us -- it only looked good externally because we had the higher kill rate. You're right that failing to discuss a strategy for it in the QT was still an error, though.
This was kind of my first real scum game, given that the only other M-game in which I drew scum was stopped early. I have room for improvement! :-P
@Robz, thank you for the fun setup!
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I think our biggest problem was not paying enough attention and missing the LyLo potential. Our claims could have gone very differently otherwise.
Also, as said in the scum QT, the ruling on Qvist being a targeting role was scandalous.
I shouldn't have claimed poisoner. Would have been better to have no one claim it.