Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Topic started by: beri on August 07, 2017, 06:31:17 am

Title: AIís whims
Post by: beri on August 07, 2017, 06:31:17 am
I play with Guilds, Dark ages and Base and Iíve noticed that the AI is buggily obsessed with the following cards and always buys as many as it can:
- Bandit Camp
- Counterfeit (when this one is in play, I know Iíll win the game, as the AI will play very stupidly.

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

And it seems unable to process the following cards, since it NEVER buys them (while I do):
Artisan, Poacher
Pillage
Taxman, Herald, Advisor

There may be others. Anyway the AI seems quite limited.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Awaclus on August 07, 2017, 06:37:47 am
Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: SkyHard on August 08, 2017, 03:49:10 pm
Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: LastFootnote on August 08, 2017, 04:09:05 pm
Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

I somehow don't think the (horrible) AI is considering the strategic implications of stop cards when it blindly plays all of its Spoils, though.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Awaclus on August 08, 2017, 04:49:15 pm
Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

I somehow don't think the (horrible) AI is considering the strategic implications of stop cards when it blindly plays all of its Spoils, though.

If you have a Bandit Camp in your deck, regardless of what kind of deck it is (I mean, it's probably a draw-your-deck engine anyway but for the sake of argument let's imagine it's not necessarily that), you usually want to get rid of the Spoils so that the Bandit Camp has a higher chance to connect with your terminals.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: LastFootnote on August 08, 2017, 04:55:18 pm
"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

If you have a Bandit Camp in your deck, regardless of what kind of deck it is (I mean, it's probably a draw-your-deck engine anyway but for the sake of argument let's imagine it's not necessarily that), you usually want to get rid of the Spoils so that the Bandit Camp has a higher chance to connect with your terminals.

That's a good call, though sometimes (rarely) you get a Bandit Camp mostly for the Spoils, so you care more about having that one-shot Gold in the next shuffle.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: JW on August 08, 2017, 06:04:20 pm
That's a good call, though sometimes (rarely) you get a Bandit Camp mostly for the Spoils, so you care more about having that one-shot Gold in the next shuffle.

Lord Rattington typically gets Bandit Camp for the Spoils as part of a Bandit Camp-Big Money "strategy", not to build deck-drawing engines or to play multiple terminal actions each turn.

(Bandit Camp-Big Money is not actually a good strategy!)
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: beri on August 09, 2017, 11:33:53 am
Yes, Rattington just goes totally stupid and counterproductive when Bandit camp and Counterfeit are in play.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Awaclus on August 09, 2017, 12:18:44 pm
Yes, Rattington just goes totally stupid and counterproductive when Bandit camp and Counterfeit are in play.

However, it goes productive when Feit is in play.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Splee on August 24, 2017, 11:12:01 am
Bots also compete hard for Sauna, but then don't bother getting a single Avanto. I've also seen them trash multiple colonies or provinces in the same turn with Chapel or Remake - typically when I'm building engine / alt VP and the bot is starting to slow down from the green. It'll also buy Embargo, but the only thing I've actually seen it embargo is the curse pile.

I just played Envoy, picked up Copper x4 and a Tunnel, and the bot *chose* to discard my Tunnel.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: McGarnacle on August 24, 2017, 02:20:20 pm
Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesnít need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

The AI is actually way ahead of us strategically, it will take some time to figure out the nuances of its tactics.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Chappy7 on August 24, 2017, 09:18:16 pm
Lord Rattington doesn't reveal his gold when he plays legionary.  ???

Yet he bought it every time he got $5.  Even though he had no villages.  It hurt to watch
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: popsofctown on October 06, 2017, 09:42:38 am
What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck. 
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Awaclus on October 06, 2017, 10:11:12 am
What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck.

Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Limetime on October 06, 2017, 10:13:17 am
What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck.

Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
Bandit camp has a 54.79% - 36.88% BMU
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: JW on October 06, 2017, 10:39:16 am

Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
Bandit camp has a 54.79% - 36.88% BMU

But Lord Bottington prefers Bandit Camp to Gold!
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: beri on October 21, 2017, 03:10:45 am
Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ícause it keeps playing retardedly.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: -Stef- on November 13, 2017, 02:22:56 pm
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: KingPeter on November 13, 2017, 05:37:55 pm
Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ícause it keeps playing retardedly.
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
Apparently not.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: SkyHard on November 14, 2017, 01:13:01 am
Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ícause it keeps playing retardedly.
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
Apparently not.

It is planed in the near future: "But most importantly it will allow me to start working on a real AI." (quote from Stef from http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17872.0)
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Seprix on November 14, 2017, 09:03:33 am
Stef: Mr. Player, have you considered the cost of such a machine?

Player: Price is not an object.

Stef: Perhaps not, but have you considered the cost?

Player: I'm not sure I follow.

Stef: Go home. Forget this thing. I can recognize an obsession, no good will come of it.

Player: Why, haven't good come of your obsessions?

Stef: Well, at first. But I followed them too long. I'm their slave... and one day they'll choose to destroy me.

Player: If you understand an obsession, then you know you won't change my mind.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: scott_pilgrim on November 21, 2017, 09:38:52 pm
I just witnessed Lord Rattington open Potion on a board where the only Potion-cost card was Golem, hit $4P on turn 3, and buy Silver.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: jonts26 on December 08, 2017, 04:34:15 pm
I think I've found a new way to pin the rat.

Code: [Select]
j plays a Vault.
j draws 2 Vaults.
L discards a card and a Copper.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Silver and a Relic.
L discards a Copper.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: GendoIkari on December 11, 2017, 10:39:50 am
I think I've found a new way to pin the rat.

Code: [Select]
j plays a Vault.
j draws 2 Vaults.
L discards a card and a Copper.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Silver and a Relic.
L discards a Copper.

Lord Rattington always discards when you play a Vault. Always. If you play your 5th Vault in a turn, he'll discard his last card and not draw any replacement. If you discard your 6th Vault in a turn, he'll slow play you while he tries to figure out how to discard when he has no cards in his hand, and you are forced to resign.

Not sure if the issue has been fixed where 1 too many Vault plays locks you out.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: jonts26 on December 13, 2017, 09:20:40 am
Not sure if the issue has been fixed where 1 too many Vault plays locks you out.

Yeah, I think that bug is fixed.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Tombolo on March 25, 2018, 10:26:35 pm
Turn 12 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Masquerade.
L passes a Province to T.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: JW on November 09, 2018, 01:14:43 pm
Turn 1 - Lord Rattington
L plays 3 Coppers. (+$3)
L uses 1 Coffers. (+$1)
L buys and gains a Silver.
L draws 5 cards.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: JW on November 11, 2018, 03:55:24 pm
Turn 1 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
L buys and gains a Flag Bearer.
L takes the Flag.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 6 cards.

Turn 1 - JW
J plays 3 Coppers. (+$3)
J buys and gains a Loan.
J draws 4 Coppers and an Estate.

Turn 2 - Lord Rattington
L plays 4 Coppers. (+$4)
L buys and gains a Flag Bearer.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 6 cards.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: Donald X. on November 11, 2018, 05:00:09 pm
Turn 1 - Lord Rattington
L buys and gains a Flag Bearer.

Turn 2 - Lord Rattington
L buys and gains a Flag Bearer.
Turn 2, you buy Flag Bearer; bot never buys another Flag Bearer.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: JW on December 24, 2018, 12:35:37 pm
Lord Rattington prefers having 50 Villagers tokens to having a deck, so even though Recruiter only trashes one card each play Lord Rattington still manages to annihilate its deck with it.

L plays a Recruiter.
L trashes a Silver.
L gets +3 Villagers.
L uses 1 Villager.
L plays a Recruiter.
L trashes a Gold.
L gets +6 Villagers.
L shuffles their deck.
L draws 2 cards. [both Recruiters!]
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: DDL on February 06, 2019, 08:12:30 am
- Lord Rattington will always get Chapel on Turn 1. Always.

If it opens 5-2, it will buy Chapel with $5 and pass on Turn 2.

- Lord Rattington will always buy Tournaments like crazy. But it is incapable of buying prizes.

- Lord Rattington will always open Jack. Not Doublejack, just Jack.

- Lord Rattington doesn't know how to use Sentry. If you play a game of Base where Sentry is your only trasher, you've already won.

- Lord Rattington will always name Gold when you play Contraband. In games with Contraband, you can pretty much just buy it in the place of Gold, because LR will not prevent you from buying other things with it.
Title: Re: AIís whims
Post by: GendoIkari on February 06, 2019, 09:50:03 am
- Lord Rattington will always buy Tournaments like crazy. But it is incapable of buying prizes.


To be fair, really good players are incapable of buying prizes also.