Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 10:25:50 am

Title: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 10:25:50 am
Welcome to M105: Time Management Mafia

This game is for 13 players, and is classified as normal. It uses semi-open WIFOM setup.

Players:

1. faust Killed N3: Responsible Friend
2. The_Wine_Merchant Killed N2: VT
3. DatSwan
4. Robz888 Lynched D1: VT
5. Roadrunner7671 Lynched D3: Moving to Another Location
6. AndrewisFTTW
7. chairs
8. Xxraptorslayer96 Lynched D4: Playing Games till 3am on Wednesday
9. JaketheBaseballGod22 Lynched D2: VT
10. Skumpy Killed N4: Precise Alarm Clock
11. gkrieg13 Killed N1: Careful planning in Notebook
12. Galzria
13. Teproc

Tags: schadd, 2.71828....., ashersky, Joseph2302, crax


The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, aquamarine text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 10:26:05 am
WIFOM is a Semi-Open Original setup for 13 players. It's designed to eliminate towncred given to players who claim power roles and to show how WIFOM (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM) can be a powerful tool for both Town and Scum.

The "base" setup is as follows:

Quote

3 Mafia:
Playing Games till 3am on Wednesday (Goon)
Long Vacation (Goon)
Moving to a Different Location (1-shot Psychotrooper)

10 Town:
Wristwatch (1-shot Commuting Innocent Child)
Careful Planning in Notebook (3-shot Alignment Cop)
8 Good Memories (Vanilla Townies)

Pregame, 0-5 Modifications will be made to the above setup. Each Modification has a 50% chance of being present. They will alter the setup by adding more power roles to both the Town and the Mafia:

Modification 1:

Playing Games [..] -> 2-shot Roleblocker
Vanilla Townie -> Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor)


Modification 2:

Playing Games [..]-> Flavor Cop
Vanilla Townie -> Responsible Friend (Roleblocker)


Modification 3:

Long Vacation -> 2-shot Rolestopper
Vanilla Townie -> Secretary (Watcher)


Modification 4:
Long Vacation -> 1-shot Ninja
Vanilla Townie -> Time Management Training (Tracker)


Modification 5:
Moving [..] -> Cop Enabler
Vanilla Townie -> Sleep Schedule (Universal Backup)


Here's what the setup looks like when ALL the Modifications are present:
Quote
3 Mafia:
Playing Games [..]: Flavor Copping 2-shot Roleblocker
Long Vacation: 2-shot Rolestopping 1-shot Ninja
Moving [..]: Cop Enabling 1-shot Psychotrooper

10 Town:
Wristwatch: 1-shot Commuting Innocent Child
Careful Planning in Notebook: 3-shot Alignment Cop
Time Management Training: Tracker
Secretary: Watcher
Precise Alarm Clock: Doctor
Responsible Friend: Roleblocker
Sleep Schedule: Universal Backup
3 Vanilla Cores

 
Mechanics:

- When players die, only their Flavor Name and Alignment will be revealed.
- Mafia cannot complete the factional kill and use a power in the same night.
- Rolestopping resolves before Town!Roleblocking which resolves before Mafia!Roleblocking

Role Clarifications:
- 1-shot Psychotrooper is an Active power. The night they choose to use it, the Alignment Cop will get the opposite result for their investigation (Scum instead of Town and Town instead of Scum).
- Investigative powers receive "No Result" if their action was blocked in any way.
- When the Cop Enabler dies, all Alignment Cop Investigations return "No Result"
- Flavor Cop is told their target's Flavor Name. If both are present, it is used in conjuction with Roleblocking. However, the Playing Games does not have to Roleblock when they Flavor Cop, and they can still Flavor Cop when out of Roleblocking shots.
- Ninja can be used to modify the user's Factional Kill or Rolestopping
- Rolestopping doesn't stop Kills
- The Universal Backup inherit the first Town Power Role that dies. A Town PR with 0-shots left (if they are an X-shot Role) does not count for UB inheritance. The Innocent Child's 1-shot Commuter can be inherited by the UB.

Here is the Good Memory PM:

Quote
You are a Good Memory, the Vanilla Townie. You have no powers, but your vote.

Please /confirm by replying to this message.

Town Wincon: You win once all the mafia are dead.
Mafia Wincon: You win once the mafia controls half the town, or nothing can stop this from happening.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: schadd on July 19, 2017, 10:29:32 am
teg
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on July 19, 2017, 10:35:57 am
/tag
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: faust on July 19, 2017, 10:43:37 am
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 19, 2017, 11:00:01 am
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 19, 2017, 12:22:28 pm
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.

Speaking of which, we should probably discuss what we want to do when many of us are in Berlin together. One idea is to pause mafia games for those four days, because otherwise it may get weird.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 12:37:03 pm
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.

Speaking of which, we should probably discuss what we want to do when many of us are in Berlin together. One idea is to pause mafia games for those four days, because otherwise it may get weird.

I don't see a problem. We can just spend like 30-40 minutes a day separately on mafia. Let's just agree not to post while we're in a same room.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 19, 2017, 01:44:36 pm
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.

Speaking of which, we should probably discuss what we want to do when many of us are in Berlin together. One idea is to pause mafia games for those four days, because otherwise it may get weird.

I don't see a problem. We can just spend like 30-40 minutes a day separately on mafia. Let's just agree not to post while we're in a same room.

I guess it can also just be a personal thing. I don't plan on spending much time at all on the forum while I'm a tourist, just because there is so much to see and so little time!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 02:08:03 pm
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.

Speaking of which, we should probably discuss what we want to do when many of us are in Berlin together. One idea is to pause mafia games for those four days, because otherwise it may get weird.

I don't see a problem. We can just spend like 30-40 minutes a day separately on mafia. Let's just agree not to post while we're in a same room.

I guess it can also just be a personal thing. I don't plan on spending much time at all on the forum while I'm a tourist, just because there is so much to see and so little time!

Eerything you should know about me: every day I wake up 2 hours before work just so I can sit and relax while it's quiet. 2 hours! So I guess I will be able to fulfill my modding duties while on vacation
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 19, 2017, 02:32:07 pm
Probably /in. Depends on whether or not vacation plans in late July/early August stay the same. But right now it looks like all my friends are lame and are flaking out, so it probably won't happen.

Speaking of which, we should probably discuss what we want to do when many of us are in Berlin together. One idea is to pause mafia games for those four days, because otherwise it may get weird.

I don't see a problem. We can just spend like 30-40 minutes a day separately on mafia. Let's just agree not to post while we're in a same room.

I guess it can also just be a personal thing. I don't plan on spending much time at all on the forum while I'm a tourist, just because there is so much to see and so little time!

Eerything you should know about me: every day I wake up 2 hours before work just so I can sit and relax while it's quiet. 2 hours! So I guess I will be able to fulfill my modding duties while on vacation

Ok. I guess that is similar to what I do most nights, except for when I'm traveling!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: LaLight on July 19, 2017, 02:44:05 pm
Not quoting not to build a wall;

I just think it's a little unfair for people who is not with us: make them wait for these 5 days. I mean there'll be only 5 people who are in one game or another and there's not a game where we all are.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 19, 2017, 03:00:28 pm
Not quoting not to build a wall;

I just think it's a little unfair for people who is not with us: make them wait for these 5 days. I mean there'll be only 5 people who are in one game or another and there's not a game where we all are.

Very true. I guess maybe just consider extending the deadlines at that time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: ashersky on July 19, 2017, 03:23:07 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Swowl on July 19, 2017, 04:01:52 pm
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Galzria on July 19, 2017, 04:08:35 pm
/in

^^^

/tag
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Robz888 on July 19, 2017, 04:44:18 pm
/in

^^^

/tag

Turn that tag into an /in!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Robz888 on July 19, 2017, 04:44:28 pm
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: schadd on July 19, 2017, 04:55:31 pm
no one ins like datswan no one wins like datswan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 19, 2017, 05:03:46 pm
no one ins like datswan no one wins like datswan
game over. schadd wins.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: schadd on July 19, 2017, 05:12:06 pm
the three people that joined already have been endgamed

schadd wins!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Galzria on July 19, 2017, 06:52:10 pm
/in

^^^

/tag

Turn that tag into an /in!

But it's twinclaim! And I don't want him to be like "Bro, are you scum?". Cause then I would be all "Bro, I can't talk about it." And then he'll go "Imma go vote for your lying scummy ass".

***This is potentially modeled on real conversation and may or may not accurately portray the individuals to whom it applies***
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on July 19, 2017, 08:05:28 pm
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 19, 2017, 08:17:14 pm
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (7 spots left!)
Post by: chairs on July 20, 2017, 04:11:15 pm
Do you wanna be a mobster?
Flavor don't have to be a mobster.

We'll kill some Town today.
We'll make 'em flip the switch,
Get a great mislynch
And in our QT we'll say "Yay!"

We used to be just Townies,
But now we're not.
Cuz killing's the funnest waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Do you wanna be a mobster?
The flavor's not about the mobsters.
Okay, die.

/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (7 spots left!)
Post by: Robz888 on July 20, 2017, 04:12:35 pm
/in

Heart eyes emoji!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (7 spots left!)
Post by: chairs on July 20, 2017, 05:40:59 pm
/in

Heart eyes emoji!

*Blush*
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (6 spots left!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on July 21, 2017, 05:19:26 am
/tag for now
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (6 spots left!)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on July 23, 2017, 11:41:35 pm
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (6 spots left!)
Post by: Galzria on July 24, 2017, 12:22:46 am
/in

Tripletsclaim
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (5 spots left!)
Post by: crax on July 25, 2017, 01:16:38 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (5 spots left!)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on July 27, 2017, 03:20:13 am
/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: Robz888 on July 27, 2017, 11:19:43 am
I'm dead in all games! People need to /in!!!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 27, 2017, 01:37:10 pm
/in I guess.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: LaLight on July 27, 2017, 02:37:55 pm
2 spots and we'll start!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: Galzria on July 27, 2017, 05:26:12 pm
They want me to /in, so... fine. Besides, I'm not in any right now so...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: Robz888 on July 27, 2017, 05:41:32 pm
They want me to /in, so... fine. Besides, I'm not in any right now so...

yaaaaaaaaaaaasssssss!!!!!!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (1 spots left!)
Post by: Teproc on July 27, 2017, 07:27:48 pm
This game being named "Time Managment" has stopped me so far by reminding me that I don't want to be in two mafia games while on vacation, but come on, freaking Galzria is playing. Never got a chance to play with the guy I basically modeled my play on, let's take it.

/in
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (pms are going out soon!)
Post by: LaLight on July 28, 2017, 03:01:02 am
ah shoot.

I started to send pms and then realized Robz is twice in the list.

So one spot left! I will not rerandomize, the thread is locked except for /in.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (1 spot!)
Post by: Skumpy on July 28, 2017, 03:34:54 am
So a little about me:

I am a horrible liar.
I am a horrible lie detector.
I crack under pressure easily.
If I play, I will very likely spend way too much time lurking and will ruin my life.
I may hate it and/or get overwhelmed and become apathetic very quickly.
Or worse, I may get addicted and continue to ruin my life.
I am very unfamiliar with mafia.
I would rather focus my free time on playing Dominion than on playing mafia.


However, there's 2 other important points.

1. If I'm going to spend as much time as I have been recently glancing through mafia games, I'm going to crack eventually and sign up for a game, so better sooner rather than later while it's still summer.

& 2 and most important: I would be remiss to spend as much time on the forum as I do and not give "Skummy Skumpy" a chance....




so /in

Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (1 spot!)
Post by: LaLight on July 28, 2017, 03:42:54 am
wow, that's cool :) Welcome!

Now the Thread is locked for sure, pms are going out
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on July 28, 2017, 03:49:44 am
PMs are out. N0 starts now and ends when all the confirmations will be received. Note that I have a flight in 16 hours, so the start may be delayed a little.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: Dylan32 on July 28, 2017, 02:21:33 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on July 30, 2017, 03:29:45 am
Unfortunately there is still one more person to confirm.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on July 30, 2017, 01:22:05 pm
LaLight woke up, slowly opened his eyes and smiled. That was a perfect morning: sun was shining just right into the window of his room, the temperature felt just right for this amazing sunday morning, LaLight had dreamt about climbing up the leaderboard on Dominion.games. And all was good. Until...

- LaLight! Where are you?! It's the middle of tthe day, our clients are furious!

Oh my. It's Wednesday. How do I keep forgetting this all the time?

- LaLight! You're supposing to help me move my stuff into new apartment!

Oh. Best friend is moving out, how could I forget this?

- Son! Have you bought that wallpaper I asked you about? The master comes in half an hour to glue them!

Well, you see. This is what happens when you can not manage time at all. So LaLight sat on the edge of the bed and decided to make some steps in the right direction.


Day 1 Starts!

Vote Count 1.0

Not voting (13): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, Robz888, Roadrunner7671, AndrewisFTTW, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, JaketheBaseballGod22, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Galzria, Teproc

Teproc is an Innocent Child!

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 30, 2017, 02:28:18 pm
New faces! Hello everybody!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on July 30, 2017, 02:41:55 pm
Hey folks!

vote: Teproc because as a father there is no such thing as an innocent child, you just don't know what they've done wrong yet.  ;D
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 30, 2017, 03:17:59 pm
With this flavor I feel it would have been more appropriate for me to be scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 30, 2017, 03:21:44 pm
I have little time, so let's get right into it.

Skumpy already did an introduction. Could the other new players do so too? That would be helpful.

chairs is town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on July 30, 2017, 03:37:24 pm
Vote: Faust for being around
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 30, 2017, 03:38:00 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 03:52:21 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

Vote: gkrieg

For pretending like he doesn't know there are 3 scum in this game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 30, 2017, 03:54:32 pm
Vote: Faust for being around
Well I am certainly glad I won't be around for the end of the day then.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 03:56:16 pm
gkrieg doesn't NOT read setups by the way, so that's not a valid excuse.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 30, 2017, 03:58:08 pm
gkrieg doesn't NOT read setups by the way, so that's not a valid excuse.
I don't think there's much point in explaining which excuses would be invalid before gkrieg has even given one.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 04:00:05 pm
gkrieg doesn't NOT read setups by the way, so that's not a valid excuse.
I don't think there's much point in explaining which excuses would be invalid before gkrieg has even given one.

Do you agree that would not be a valid excuse?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 30, 2017, 04:08:10 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

Vote: gkrieg

For pretending like he doesn't know there are 3 scum in this game.

I never said they were the full team. I know there are three scums.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 04:11:28 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

You said they are THE team, implying there are no other members of the scum team.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on July 30, 2017, 04:13:10 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

You said they are THE team, implying there are no other members of the scum team.
Vote Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 04:17:13 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

You said they are THE team, implying there are no other members of the scum team.
Vote Andrew

Well said.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 04:23:57 pm
Hi. Never been an IC before. Can't say it's a role that particularly plays to my strenghts, but oh well.

Appropriately enough, I don't have time for this right now. But people: read the setup. Last time I modded this, the Cop
 - Hydrad - forgot Psychotrooper even existed until, like, day 4. Don't be a Hydrad. Look up what your role implicates, don't openly show you know there's a role there etc... don't be lazy, essentially. Unless you're scum, that is.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 30, 2017, 04:31:19 pm
New faces! Hello everybody!

Hello, I am NewFace! Nice to play with you all. Well, 9 of you at any rate...
Nice to be town so I don't have too much pressure my first game, but if I ever get scum, you'll be able to read me like a book or brochure.

So questions about roles which I have prepared beforehand:

What’s a commuter do?
Does the doctor/target know if they get saved/attacked?
Can a doctor heal himself/watcher watch himself? (and if yes, is there a limit?)
Do Watchers/Trackers get something different than ‘No Result’ if there’s no activity?
If a visiting role gets roleblocked, will the watcher/tracker still see him visit?
If x-shot gets roleblocked while attempting a shot, do they lose a shot?
Can Roleblockers block each other?
Would a non-investigative know if he’s roleblocked?
Role’s don’t get flipped, but the UB will know of their new role and thus know that dead dude had a role, correct?

Can any scum member commit a kill? Do they choose who does it during the night?
Is there still a kill if the roleblocker blocks the last living scum?
Mechanic #2 in the setup: Does this apply to all mafia or just the killer?
Can Ninjas be roleblocked?

I’m definitely not a PR or anything. Just asking for a friend…



And now for questions about setup:
I assume there's a rule about being unable to claim favor. That seems like it would make it too easy.

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?


(And if you're wondering, I've looked through enough mafia games that I am now a lingo master)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 04:53:10 pm
Hrm. Most of these questions are easily answered by mafiascum, which I presume you are not aware of ? It has an excellent wiki. Anyway :

Commuter - that's me - can commute at night, which means any action targeting me will fail. In this case it's a one-shot.
Doctor targets don't know they've been doctored, no.
Doctor can't target itself, neither can a Watcher.
"No result" or "no one"... that one depends on the mod, worth checking.

Does a Watcher get a different result if their action fails than if they didn't detect anything ?

Roleblocking entirely stops a role from happening, so the roleblocked player won't be targeting anyone, and thus won't be seen.
Yes, they lose a shot if they're roleblocked.
ROlebockers can block each other. This one is actually in the setup: town!roleblock trumps mafia!roleblock. They're both beaten by rolestopping though.
A non-investigative PR wouldn't know if they were roleblocked. It's possible some investigative PRs wouldn't either - see above.
UB knows what they inherit, not sure if they know how many shots they have, but it can't be 0 here.
Any scum member can do the NK, they get to choose.
Roleblocker does stop the NK, regardless of how many scum there are.
I don't understand that one, it means whoever does the mafia NK can't do another power that night.
Ninjas can be roleblocked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 04:56:10 pm
You can claim flavor. This setup is not called WIFOM for nothing.

Claiming in this way would not clear anyone as mafia can fakeclaim, and it would definitely out PRs. I am fairly certain it's a terrible idea. Mafia knows exactly which PRs there are, which makes fakeclaims very, very easy for them. Which means you basically get no towncrd for claiming, unless you have something tangible, which you certainly don't on D1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 04:57:09 pm
Finally, let's keep up some WIFOM here, but let's say some of these questions may already help mafia POE which PR you are or are no, if you are town. In the future, consult the mafiascum wiki rather than asking here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 04:58:23 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 05:08:38 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

You don't see anything in gkrieg calling the scum team?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 30, 2017, 05:43:49 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

You don't see anything in gkrieg calling the scum team?
You aren't asking me. But no.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 30, 2017, 05:46:55 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.
I mean. I saw things that could be from scum and things that could be from town. But I didn't see an Awaclus style type tell that was specific.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on July 30, 2017, 05:52:55 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

You don't see anything in gkrieg calling the scum team?
no
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 30, 2017, 06:24:03 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

You said they are THE team, implying there are no other members of the scum team.

It was clearly RVS...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 30, 2017, 06:26:05 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.
I mean. I saw things that could be from scum and things that could be from town. But I didn't see an Awaclus style type tell that was specific.

I didn't mean "tell" in an Awaclusian way. I meant it's an actual thing that was not RVS that people can get a read from, and we can start the game proper through that. Discuss.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 30, 2017, 06:35:31 pm
Ok. Mostly town tell. That is a lot of questions. Newbie player would have wanted them answered at first opportunity, so scum quicktopic. So either he asked them there and team told him it would be townie to ask here. Or he had foresight to save them.

Also specific questions about mafia actions are more townie as those would definitely be asked in the QT over here.

Scummy--worrying about how game mechanics, misunderstanding them negatively affect mafia. Could be more likely from a scum mindset if that is his alignmnet and he sees his chances of winning hurt. But probably just overall wanting the game to be balanced so it is more fun if he is town. So not that scummy.

Overall a townier feel.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 30, 2017, 06:48:07 pm
Fwiw I get more of a scum read off Faust for calling Chairs town (something scum can do safely enough about anyone at any point) than I do about gkrieg calling "the" mafia team. It's all RVS though so I put no weight in any of it really.

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 07:18:42 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

You said they are THE team, implying there are no other members of the scum team.

It was clearly RVS...

Which part? The vote? Calling the team? Both?

Fwiw I get more of a scum read off Faust for calling Chairs town (something scum can do safely enough about anyone at any point) than I do about gkrieg calling "the" mafia team. It's all RVS though so I put no weight in any of it really.

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

I'm not you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 07:19:25 pm
vote: Faust

Chairs and Faust are the team.

Vote: gkrieg

For pretending like he doesn't know there are 3 scum in this game.

I never said they were the full team. I know there are three scums.

^This doesn't imply it was an RVS post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 07:22:43 pm
Ok I'm getting ahead of myself. Clearly it was RVS. And if nobody else sees anything in it, that's fine. I'll drop it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on July 30, 2017, 08:19:40 pm
vote: AndrewisFTTW.

Not RVS.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on July 30, 2017, 08:24:11 pm
that's fine. I'll drop it.
Scummiest thing so far from anyone.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 30, 2017, 08:35:25 pm
that's fine. I'll drop it.
Scummiest thing so far from anyone.
Just because someone has self control doesn't mean it is scummy.

Vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 08:42:45 pm
Yeah I'll do that.

Vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on July 30, 2017, 08:43:06 pm
that's fine. I'll drop it.
Scummiest thing so far from anyone.
Just because someone has self control doesn't mean it is scummy.
It is to me! I never have self control as town!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on July 30, 2017, 08:43:13 pm
Oh darn
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on July 30, 2017, 08:43:36 pm
vote: AndrewisFTTW.

Not RVS.

How about an explanation of why?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 30, 2017, 11:16:47 pm
First off, is there a way to quote farther back than like 15 posts? Copy and pasting from a second tab is gonna get annoying real quick.

I don't know anybody here and I don't know play styles, don't except me to do any wagoning day 1 (speaking of which, how do you keep all the different people here straight in your head?). I don't know, it seems so strange to me to start accusing with literally no information. I highly doubt this is a product of my newbieness...it just rubs off on me the wrong way, especially since the D1 seems to always result in a mislynch. I'll probably end up voting at some point, but as of <1 irl day, I don't get it yet.

Finally, let's keep up some WIFOM here, but let's say some of these questions may already help mafia POE which PR you are or are no, if you are town. In the future, consult the mafiascum wiki rather than asking here.

Obviously I'd like to think I would have posted the same regardless of if I'm PR or VT, town or skum. And even if there are some differences, good luck telling for sure after my very post in mafia. Also, I don't get the problem with asking questions? Maybe a couple were asked just to be sure (like the roleblockers blocking each other was probably obvious in retrospect), but they seem standard enough for a first-time player to me. In my defense, even you didn't know the answer to one. Sorry if that came off as arrogant, but if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).



Scummy Skummy--worrying about how game mechanics, misunderstanding them negatively affect mafia. Could be more likely from a scum skum mindset if that is his alignmnet and he sees his chances of winning hurt. But probably just overall wanting the game to be balanced so it is more fun if he is town. So not that scummy skummy.

Overall a townier feel.
Please, I'd love to have something to set me apart.

So now I know how it feels to be town and get read into very thoroughly. Kinda cool actually. Believe me, I'm a terrible liar - If I'm skum, you would know instantly. Also, to your point about worrying about game mechanics, sees chance of winning hurt etc...I just wanna try and find a way to exploit the setup.



And I'm not totally certain claiming is bad. More on my thoughts in a new post...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 31, 2017, 12:09:31 am
Continued from previous post:

Say we all claim flavor/role (if needed) day 1

So scum's gonna counter certain things. They're not going to claim the same PR/potential-PR multiple times (if 2 people are fighting over alignment cop, a 2nd scum joining instantly identifies 2 scum in a group of 3, which is stupid).

That leaves them with 4 possibilities:
1) All claim a different PR (when I say PR, I'm referring to alignment cop and 5 townies that can be modified)
2) All claim VT (when I say VT, I'm referring to the 3 who have no chance at modification)
3) One claims VT, 2 claim PR
4) One claims PR, 2 claim VT

Take scenario 1. This instantly clears 7 town out of 13, and leaves 3 pairs with 2 suspicious persons each.
(For all below, assume successful night kills of confirmed town)
Day 1: 10 town, 3 scum. Mislynch a town.
Day 2: 8 town, 3 scum. Guaranteed a scum.
Day 3: 7 town, 2 scum. Mislynch.
Day 4: 5 town, 2 scum. Correct
Day 5: 4 town, 1 scum. Mislynch
Day 6: 2 town, 1 scum. Victory
So this one's out the window.

(OK, this is where I start to realize this is indeed a stupid plan, but I'll keep writing)

Scenario 2: All claim a VT
Clears 7, 3 scum among 6 people. It's probably better to ask any VT's to claim first so to protect the 6 PR's from revealing information. Doctor, Watcher, Tracker, and Roleblocker then half-size their target pools. If you guys can't identify 3 scum from a group of 6 known from day 1, I have no idea how you can justify voting this early. I probably can't, but that's because I'm bad.

Scenario 3: Starts same as scenario 1, gets down to the same Day 5: 4 town, 1 scum (with 1 guaranteed innocent). 2 shots at a correct lynch, those seem like pretty good odds to me. Get 1 of the 2 PR lynches correct on the first try, and we're up to 6 vs 1 with 3 guaranteed innocents. This in turn simplifies down to at worst 2 v 1 with 1 guaranteed innocent.

Scenario 4: This is the trickiest I think. Try and find the fake claimer first, and it could be 7 vs 2, but with only 2 confirmed innocents. Or try and knock out 2 scum from a group of 5 first. It's riskier, but it guarantees that we won't be mislynching PR's day 1. If we do claim, this is probably what will happen and will require more thought.

So maybe not all that bad after all? Keep in mind that, with the exception of that one idea in scenario 3, these are all absolute-worst case scenarios where a)town mislynches every day, b)scum succeeds in killing every day, and c)investigatives get no information. I'm useless when it comes to scumhunting, and I like having information. If you want to get mad at me for giving scum ideas, I can understand that. But since I'm town (please have faith), there's guaranteed at least 1 veteran in the scum team. They should better be able to figure out all this for themselves.

Again, still the new guy, so I don't know how well day 1 claiming works in the past, but if you're clearing half the town, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Thoughts? Claiming roles in addition to flavor is also a mystery. On the one hand, it tells the town what they're up against. On the other, now scum has targets. Probably better to not claim role.

By the way, if you ever see me lurking and taking a long time to post, please note this difference of 45+ minutes between posts as an example of me being a slow writer who likes to think and make sure every word is correct.

Nice to meet everybody! I'm sure we'll get along just fine!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 12:27:08 am
Tldr
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 12:27:27 am
Fyi
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 12:27:44 am
DAMA
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 12:28:42 am
JK going to bed. Ask hung over me tomorrow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 31, 2017, 01:11:59 am
If I made a ranking of the best days of the week to get hung over on, Monday is definitely not in the top 2.

TLDR: The set-up gives a lot of information. I would like to use the information by suggesting the idea of everyone claiming day 1, sooner rather than later. I know few if any people will be willing, so I understand it's very unlikely to happen.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 31, 2017, 01:22:01 am
If I made a ranking of the best days of the week to get hung over on, Monday is definitely not in the top 2.

TLDR: The set-up gives a lot of information. I would like to use the information by suggesting the idea of everyone claiming day 1, sooner rather than later. I know few if any people will be willing, so I understand it's very unlikely to happen.

Consider that scum can claim one of the modified VT roles and not be counterclaimed, then we don't don't get any information and out all of our PRs, which isn't very productive.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 02:02:50 am
But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 02:04:42 am
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.
Well yes, they are likely town. Or if he's scum, they probably have a really savvy partner, like Galzria maybe.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 02:07:29 am
Fwiw I get more of a scum read off Faust for calling Chairs town (something scum can do safely enough about anyone at any point) than I do about gkrieg calling "the" mafia team. It's all RVS though so I put no weight in any of it really.

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.
Me calling chairs town is not RVS, and I don't like you framing it as such. Combined with the hedgness on Andrew that fails to acknowledge that Andrew's play is fundamentally different from Galzria's, that's enough for me to vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 02:10:44 am
Skumpy, Andrew, chairs are all townie, in descending order. That's a decent start for the game. And Teproc is an IC. We're starting to get some good PoE going here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 31, 2017, 02:25:54 am
But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.

Oh. Scratch my claiming idea then. Sorry to bother you all. Now I actually have to figure out how to read people....

People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.
Well yes, they are likely town. Or if he's scum, they probably have a really savvy partner, like Galzria maybe.

I don't trust anyone yet, but I'll take the compliment.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on July 31, 2017, 02:30:56 am
vote: AndrewisFTTW.

Not RVS.

How about an explanation of why?

Your posting leading up to that seems very much like a scum attempt to probe for the possibility of pushing a wagon, then backing off when it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on July 31, 2017, 02:32:06 am
Hey all, sorry I'm late to the party


Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

Once scum always scum.

vote:Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 31, 2017, 09:45:06 am
vote: galzria

Pretty scummy to project yourself onto another player.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 09:57:36 am
Hey all, sorry I'm late to the party


Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

Once scum always scum.

vote:Galzria
Hi! Good vote. Well the reasoning could be better, but anyway I like where it ended up.

Can you tell us anything about yourself, maybe most importantly what we should call you? Xx? Raptor? Slayer? xrs? Pick wisely.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on July 31, 2017, 10:54:35 am
raptorslayer must be called "Clever girl" in deference to Jurassic Park, clearly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 31, 2017, 11:35:12 am
Neat, a wagon.

Faust is scum.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 12:32:04 pm
I'm just biding my time until the game has been going for 24 hours so that I can have everyone who hasn't posted yet prodded.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 31, 2017, 12:40:52 pm
DatSwan is VLA for 7 days to Canada. He'll have some access but I'll remind him he needs to post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on July 31, 2017, 01:18:29 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

I think skump is town. If he's scum, he would have run this "ask all the questions" plan by his scumbuddies, who very well may have thrown cold water on it.

Which player is IRL related to Galz? Also, why is there a wagon on Galz? I don't understand it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 31, 2017, 01:43:19 pm
I work with both DatSwan and XxRaptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on July 31, 2017, 02:04:03 pm
Which player is IRL related to Galz? Also, why is there a wagon on Galz? I don't understand it.
It's not that hard to understand.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 02:05:04 pm
Which player is IRL related to Galz? Also, why is there a wagon on Galz? I don't understand it.
It's not that hard to understand.
Don't understand is too often code for I disagree.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on July 31, 2017, 02:06:11 pm
It's both. Lots of votes for Galz, don't really understand why or agree.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on July 31, 2017, 02:28:14 pm
Faust started it based on:

1) His dislike of my noting Andrew's scummy behavior. He didn't like that I used myself as an example of scum in the past doing exactly what Andrew was doing here to demonstrate the point.

2) His dislike of calling his second post RVS chatter. Which either it was, or he's making claims "Chairs is town" in his second post (after one Chairs post) that is a far safer statement from scum than town. In my experience town is far less trusting or open d1. Scum tries to get many reads "established" very quickly.

He said the Chairs thing isn't RVS. Hence my vote on him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on July 31, 2017, 02:46:26 pm

Hi! Good vote. Well the reasoning could be better, but anyway I like where it ended up.

Can you tell us anything about yourself, maybe most importantly what we should call you? Xx? Raptor? Slayer? xrs? Pick wisely.
[/quote]

More voted the way I did because his accusation seemed shady

I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.
Little about myself, this is my first time playing a forum game, so forgive me if I make any mistakes.
things I like:
-long walks in the beach
-watching the sunset
-sarcasm
things I don't like:
-irony
-lists
Any other questions feel free to ask.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on July 31, 2017, 03:00:48 pm
I... what? I can't even right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on July 31, 2017, 03:14:24 pm
I haven't played a game with THREE newbies in a long time. This should be interesting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Swowl on July 31, 2017, 03:35:44 pm
Hey everyone!
Like Galz said I will be spotty for a few days so sorry in advance.

I haven't played in a long time but isn't the guy making all the accusations normally scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on July 31, 2017, 03:44:00 pm
Hey everyone!
Like Galz said I will be spotty for a few days so sorry in advance.

I haven't played in a long time but isn't the guy making all the accusations normally scum?

Very unhelpful answer: well it depends.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on July 31, 2017, 04:01:28 pm
I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.

I mean, it's up to you, but I'm partial to 'Raptor Slayer' myself.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on July 31, 2017, 05:04:13 pm
Vote Count 1.1

faust (2): Roadrunner7671, Galzria
AndrewisFTTW (1): chairs
Roadrunner7671 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, AndrewisFTTW
Galzria (3): faust, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13

Not voting (5): DatSwan, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, Skumpy, Teproc

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on July 31, 2017, 06:35:53 pm
I haven't played a game with THREE newbies in a long time. This should be interesting.

It's not quite critical mass, so you can maybe get away with the "let's lynch tne newbies" plan this time.

Ideally the people with a RVS vote should unvote, since we know have a faust wagon and a Galzria wagon. I'm not sure I understand either, but here we are.

Actually I understand the one on faust, but the one on Galz ?

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 07:06:10 pm
I don't like any of the current wagons except for RR. I don't even know if I like that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on July 31, 2017, 08:31:08 pm
I don't like any of the current wagons except for RR. I don't even know if I like that.

Why don't you like them?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on July 31, 2017, 08:41:57 pm
I don't like any of the current wagons except for RR. I don't even know if I like that.

Why don't you like them?
I like being contrarian?

I don't know. They haven't felt worthwhile or really even worth looking at, even for Day 1. They feel like a very small step above RVS. But I guess we have to start somewhere. I just don't like them.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 12:15:51 am
I do not like these wagon trains.
I do not like them, lynch-for-brains.
I do not like them in a post.
I do not like them while a ghost.
I do not like them in my self QT
I do not like them - openly!
I do not like these wagon trains -
I do not like them, lynch-for-brains!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 12:19:04 am
 8) 8) 8)

I'll have to reread with an eye towards these wagons; kind of surprised to see an early 3-man on Galz, who I think is generally a player you want to keep around since (if my rusty memory serves me right) he's a pretty strong Town player. I'm not sure I've played with scum!Galz, though - is he also that dangerous as scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 12:22:49 am
8) 8) 8)

I'll have to reread with an eye towards these wagons; kind of surprised to see an early 3-man on Galz, who I think is generally a player you want to keep around since (if my rusty memory serves me right) he's a pretty strong Town player. I'm not sure I've played with scum!Galz, though - is he also that dangerous as scum?

I would argue, and I think agreed with by most who know me, that I'm a far stronger scum player than town player.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 02:26:26 am
Look, I gave a reasonable account of my Galzria vote.

Fwiw I get more of a scum read off Faust for calling Chairs town (something scum can do safely enough about anyone at any point) than I do about gkrieg calling "the" mafia team. It's all RVS though so I put no weight in any of it really.

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.
Me calling chairs town is not RVS, and I don't like you framing it as such. Combined with the hedgness on Andrew that fails to acknowledge that Andrew's play is fundamentally different from Galzria's, that's enough for me to vote: Galzria

You can tell from the posts by the players that also vote for him that that post is also the reason. In case I need to spell it out in more detail:

1. I called chairs town after he votes for Teproc. I don't think voting for the IC, even jokingly, is a position that scum wants to put themselves in. It's just hard to predict how people will react, but people will react and that might turn you into the default lynch at the end of the day. So I called chairs town. Since he only made that one post, I thought it was pretty obvious why. I don't buy that Galzria is scumreading me for forming town reads really. He played with me in M100 for a long time and knows that this is how I operate.

2. The read on Andrew I think doesn't say much because that's exactly the kind of thing town!Andrew does. It is in fact that kind of attitude that Andrew got lynched for in M100. So Galzria should know better, and he also knows that Andrew is an easy mislynch.

3. Combine with the fact that Galzria posts two scumreads, but doesn't vote for either of them. He's just trying to sow some distrust and see what sticks. As you can see, he later decided that I was the more promising target of the two based on people's reactions.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 02:27:32 am
Robz, Teproc, chairs, is you have any further trouble understanding what I just wrote, please let me know.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 02:30:11 am
I also think I should definitely get a D1 pass.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 03:39:46 am
I also think I should definitely get a D1 pass.

Hey if faust gets a D1 pass I want a D1 pass!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 03:41:09 am

Hi! Good vote. Well the reasoning could be better, but anyway I like where it ended up.

Can you tell us anything about yourself, maybe most importantly what we should call you? Xx? Raptor? Slayer? xrs? Pick wisely.

More voted the way I did because his accusation seemed shady

I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.
Little about myself, this is my first time playing a forum game, so forgive me if I make any mistakes.
things I like:
-long walks in the beach
-watching the sunset
-sarcasm
things I don't like:
-irony
-lists
Any other questions feel free to ask.
[/quote]

Long post with zero content. Scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 01, 2017, 04:01:48 am
No one gets a day 1 pass.

I do like faust's case though.

vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 01, 2017, 04:03:16 am
@Skumpy: The problem with questions is they clutter up the thread and, in the case of PR-related questions, might be revealing of what your role - or lack thereof - is. Feel free to ask them, but if they're easily answered by a look at the mafiascum wiki/the setup, maybe don't.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 04:27:21 am
No one gets a day 1 pass.

I do like faust's case though.

vote: Galzria
Okay. Just know that I will be gone from Thursday onward and I will be unable to have any interaction with the game from then until the end of the day.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 04:28:58 am
Long post with zero content. Scummy.
Well they did specify that their vote on Galzria was serious, so that's a non-zero content remark. But yeah, it's not a great post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 01, 2017, 05:30:51 am
Has WIFOM been run this Flavorless ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 01, 2017, 05:31:05 am
since*
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 07:56:18 am
unvote.

I like the faust case. I don't want to drop a vote in case I accidentally end our Day early or something, but fakevote for the moment on Galz, with a real vote when either we're happy with the amount of chatting or I'm confident that I'm not the hammer. Off to work now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 08:01:42 am
You would be an L2 vote. Vote count about 10 posts up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 08:02:27 am
OK 20 posts up. Lynch all liars.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 08:47:50 am
At work, fine being anything not the hammer atm since I'm not ready for D1 to end.

vote: Galzria.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 09:28:24 am
OK 20 posts up. Lynch all liars.
Anything substantial to add?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 01, 2017, 09:36:46 am
Well, I don't like the faust case.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 01, 2017, 09:52:35 am
Well, I don't like the faust case.

Why not?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 01, 2017, 09:58:33 am
Well, I don't like the faust case.

Why not?

I don't think Galz is scummy for doing what he is accused of doing.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 12:05:49 pm
Request prods on: RR and Jake

This game is painfully slow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 12:47:59 pm
Request prods on: RR and Jake

This game is painfully slow.

Given it's a game with a time management theme, there's a bit of delightful irony here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 12:49:35 pm
OK 20 posts up. Lynch all liars.
Anything substantial to add?
No. If I had anything I would have stated it. Like you said, this game is slow.

RR is a perfectly acceptable place to be voting, in my opinion. Him disappearing since then isn't necessarily telling, but it is interesting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 01, 2017, 01:00:12 pm
Fwiw I get more of a scum read off Faust for calling Chairs town (something scum can do safely enough about anyone at any point) than I do about gkrieg calling "the" mafia team. It's all RVS though so I put no weight in any of it really.

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

Neat, a wagon.

Faust is scum.

vote: faust

Faust started it based on:

1) His dislike of my noting Andrew's scummy behavior. He didn't like that I used myself as an example of scum in the past doing exactly what Andrew was doing here to demonstrate the point.

2) His dislike of calling his second post RVS chatter. Which either it was, or he's making claims "Chairs is town" in his second post (after one Chairs post) that is a far safer statement from scum than town. In my experience town is far less trusting or open d1. Scum tries to get many reads "established" very quickly.

He said the Chairs thing isn't RVS. Hence my vote on him.

8) 8) 8)

I'll have to reread with an eye towards these wagons; kind of surprised to see an early 3-man on Galz, who I think is generally a player you want to keep around since (if my rusty memory serves me right) he's a pretty strong Town player. I'm not sure I've played with scum!Galz, though - is he also that dangerous as scum?

I would argue, and I think agreed with by most who know me, that I'm a far stronger scum player than town player.

Here are all of Galz's posts that have anything game-related.  The first post isn't too good.  He seems to hit the road running, trying to get reads off of stuff in RVS.  For me, the thing that set me off about this post, is that he is projecting his own scum play onto someone else, which is something that scum does IMO.  But the other side is that he doesn't really know how a lot of these players play, so it is reasonable for him to look for his own scum play in other players because he doesn't know his meta.

The second post scummy.  Acknowledging he has a wagon, but kind of brushing it off like it isn't a big deal.

Third post is something on faust.  This is what faust usually does at town.  He puts out town reads really early, and they are often correct. 

The fourth post is fine.  Although I think it is always better to try to improve your town game instead of your scum game because you will spend more of your games as town than as scum!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 01, 2017, 01:23:37 pm
@Teproc - I don't really agree, but I'm just going to drop it at this point since there's nothing more to be accomplished, besides the one unanswered question.

LL, Does Watcher/Tracker get a different result if no visitors/visits than 'No Result'?

As said before, I'm a bad reader - my head will tell me one thing which I know will be wrong based on my luck, which is why I don't really want to be committing to anything yet. In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town? I wouldn't be shocked to see them both be town, or even both scum for that matter. In other words, I don't know.

Speaking of which, how much does scum typically like to conspire, especially day 1? Like, do they plan out who's hopping on which wagon, or is it more, "Do whatever, make it happen"? Also, it anybody wants to give their opinion on who here tends to be a very strong town/scum player, that would be appreciated.

I'll just throw down a Vote: RR in the meantime, same reasoning as TWM. If it's absolutely required, I'll join a bigger wagon, but I'm going to wait a few days to see what else happens first.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 01, 2017, 01:36:11 pm
In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 01:42:53 pm
Calling scummy play scummy isn't projecting. Andrew's arguments in semantics is exactly the type of arguments scum make because they're laced with a hint of truth that makes them seem reasonable.

Gkrieg called "the" mafia team with just 2 people. Mafia has 3. That's not really likely to be a faked mistake mafia will make, but Andrew's reaction to it - namely the focus on the word "the" - gives a semblance of validity to his argument, despite it being bogus.

I would say the "comparison" to the fact that I did exactly that in M100 is just one example of such play. As it was in fact from me then, I would argue I'm more acutely aware of why such arguments work.

As Robz would say, "SK hunting is a scum tell" - doesn't matter who you are. Semantic arguments are scummy. Doesn't matter who's making them.

That said, Faust in M100 waa town. He made reads early, yes. They were almost all based off something and weren't posted arbitrarily. Further, his verbiage was very specific: He stated townie or scummy, and gave "on the list / off the list " lists for who should be the lynch.

In M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 01, 2017, 01:56:28 pm
In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 01, 2017, 02:03:17 pm
In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 01, 2017, 02:23:12 pm
In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

Funny enough, the guys in the scum QT actually warned me before the game started that Teproc would probably try that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 02:26:27 pm
In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

Funny enough, the guys in the scum QT actually warned me before the game started that Teproc would probably try that.

It's a pretty good strategy. Except if the new players are educated in the ways of Mafia. And then they usually school the veterans.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 02:33:02 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 01, 2017, 02:50:29 pm
It's a pretty good strategy. Except if the new players are educated in the ways of Mafia. And then they usually school the veterans.

For what it's worth, I guess I might as well confess at this point that I did use to play Town of Salem quite a bit. Went cold turkey about 15 months ago, and I plan on never touching it again. But all that did is give me a little information about some PR's (which if you've ever played tos, should shred some light on some of my first-post questions). Other than that, there's 100% absolutely nothing transferable to forum mafia.

Come to think of it, since I'm town, I'm actually enjoying the interrogation since I can't slip up. By all means, please do keep peppering me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 03:00:05 pm
Where's RR at on votes? I don't mind joining a wagon on D1 strictly on activity basis.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 01, 2017, 04:14:49 pm
n M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.

I wasn't "caught" in M101. People suspected me for mostly non-alignment tells. Then my partner decided it would be beneficial to bus me and I was consequently lynched. People voted me for the same reasons in M103, I was town, the result was a flawless scum win.

You can always say I'm faking my town meta instead of being town. That's not actually an argument, it's just masquerarding your gut read as something more.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 04:17:19 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 04:35:52 pm
My gut read is that you're all scum! DIRTY DIRTY SCUM! BURN THE HERETICS! EXTERMINATUS!

But, uh, furreal, I'm just happy to be playing again :)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 05:53:58 pm
n M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.
You can always say I'm faking my town meta instead of being town. That's not actually an argument, it's just masquerarding your gut read as something more.

Gut reads based on previous play are 100% valid.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 06:12:39 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.

Nothing is cut and dry scummy so don't pretend it is. Otherwise this game would be super easy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 06:14:50 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 06:27:52 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 06:52:11 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.

Nothing is cut and dry scummy so don't pretend it is. Otherwise this game would be super easy.

Sure it is. But exactly as I said - it doesn't make you scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 06:52:42 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

That's more like it though.

vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 07:05:47 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 07:31:45 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 07:49:08 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?
Sure?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 01, 2017, 08:11:46 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

I also think this, which causes me to have a town read on Andrew and hate his wagon.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 08:35:02 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

I also think this, which causes me to have a town read on Andrew and hate his wagon.
Huh?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 08:36:09 pm
Sorry. That huh wasn't clear. What "this" are you referring to in that post and further what bearing does it have on Andrew's alignment?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 08:54:15 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 08:58:07 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

Not true at all. And I answered your question. But that's not a defense. A defense has value and merit. "I wouldn't do that as scum" does not. There 's no content there. Yes, you would do that as scum. Or as town. Next?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 09:03:01 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

Not true at all. And I answered your question. But that's not a defense. A defense has value and merit. "I wouldn't do that as scum" does not. There 's no content there. Yes, you would do that as scum. Or as town. Next?

And actually, not only did I answer it, I gave 2 reasons for WHY you would do it as scum:

1) WIFOM
2) To get out in front of it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 01, 2017, 09:08:57 pm
Sorry. That huh wasn't clear. What "this" are you referring to in that post and further what bearing does it have on Andrew's alignment?

Oh, Andrew was saying he was having trouble forming reads, and I was agreeing with that... I am also having trouble forming reads.

When another player says something I was thinking, or expresses a similar sentiment, without me prompting them or indicating that I feel this way, I read them as town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 01, 2017, 09:09:54 pm
I feel like my thinking has been a much more tentative versions of Robz's (which makes me wonder about him a little now). I was starting to lean team Galzria, but the new Andrew wagon bothers me a bit.

Probably wrong but Vote: TWM for now
Partially because his 2 votes have been for very obvious unsuspicious reasons while letting everybody else get into heated debate.

And partially because, judging by his signature, he's overdue for a scum role  ;)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 09:28:33 pm
Sorry. That huh wasn't clear. What "this" are you referring to in that post and further what bearing does it have on Andrew's alignment?

Oh, Andrew was saying he was having trouble forming reads, and I was agreeing with that... I am also having trouble forming reads.

When another player says something I was thinking, or expresses a similar sentiment, without me prompting them or indicating that I feel this way, I read them as town.
I was having trouble forming reads too. Still am. Andrew's post was first that made me think one way or another. Think the whole town fits in that basket. And I have to say that sounds like a poor way to form reads. Have you had success with it? Legit question, not trying to delegitimize. I could very much be in the wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 09:29:46 pm
I feel like my thinking has been a much more tentative versions of Robz's (which makes me wonder about him a little now). I was starting to lean team Galzria, but the new Andrew wagon bothers me a bit.

Probably wrong but Vote: TWM for now
Partially because his 2 votes have been for very obvious unsuspicious reasons while letting everybody else get into heated debate.

And partially because, judging by his signature, he's overdue for a scum role  ;)
My very obvious unsuspicious reasons are perfectly valid reasons for voting for someone. Your vote on me doesn't fit that criteria though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 09:30:40 pm
Not sue what you mean about letting others get into debates. Why would I debate things I don't have an opinion or read on?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 10:06:16 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

Not true at all. And I answered your question. But that's not a defense. A defense has value and merit. "I wouldn't do that as scum" does not. There 's no content there. Yes, you would do that as scum. Or as town. Next?

And actually, not only did I answer it, I gave 2 reasons for WHY you would do it as scum:

1) WIFOM
2) To get out in front of it.

Not sure how I could generate WIFOM from that but whatever. Not interested in arguing with you anymore. It's not fun for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 10:14:33 pm
Not sure how I could generate WIFOM from that but whatever. Not interested in arguing with you anymore. It's not fun for me.
Cause it is such a fun time for Galz?

He voted for you. You asked why. He provided an answer. You questioned that answer in a passive aggressive post. He responded. It isn't like he is unnecessarily provoking you or something.

I understand that arguing might not be fun, but you seem to be spinning it in a way that makes Galz look like the bad, scummy guy. In my eyes, he is scum hunting. Or at the least doing an adequate job of pretending to scum hunt.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 10:15:14 pm
And if it won't be fun to argue with me, then don't. Only do what is fun to you. Just wanted to put it out there that I approve of what Galz was doing.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 11:09:17 pm
Well excuse me Overreacty McGhee. I didn't say Galz is provoking me. I didn't say he was acting in a scummy way. Hell I even think he's pretty towny right now! I didn't even say anything negative about arguing with Galz, I just said it wasn't fun for me anymore. Not sure what the big deal is or what I'm suddenly being yelled at.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 11:12:19 pm
Overreacty McGhee.
^
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 01, 2017, 11:12:23 pm
I'm on vacation so I only really had time to skim the thread. I'll be back later!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 11:12:41 pm
Double vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 11:15:16 pm
The point is that you seem to be trying delegitimize his points on you by making him look like a punk that is picking on you. Nobody wants to side with a bully. But the point is perfectly valid.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 01, 2017, 11:19:33 pm
The point is that you seem to be trying delegitimize his points on you by making him look like a punk that is picking on you. Nobody wants to side with a bully. But the point is perfectly valid.

Absolutely NOT what I'm doing. I disagree with him sure, but I'm not painting him as a bully or a punk. Just saying I don't feel like arguing with him anymore.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 01, 2017, 11:27:49 pm
The point is that you seem to be trying delegitimize his points on you by making him look like a punk that is picking on you. Nobody wants to side with a bully. But the point is perfectly valid.

Absolutely NOT what I'm doing. I disagree with him sure, but I'm not painting him as a bully or a punk. Just saying I don't feel like arguing with him anymore.
Then I am misinterpreting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 01, 2017, 11:32:33 pm
vote: Robz for hating wagons.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 01, 2017, 11:45:03 pm
That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.
Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

Not true at all. And I answered your question. But that's not a defense. A defense has value and merit. "I wouldn't do that as scum" does not. There 's no content there. Yes, you would do that as scum. Or as town. Next?

And actually, not only did I answer it, I gave 2 reasons for WHY you would do it as scum:

1) WIFOM
2) To get out in front of it.

Not sure how I could generate WIFOM from that but whatever. Not interested in arguing with you anymore. It's not fun for me.

I don't really want to argue with you either, but...

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

Is the definition of a WIFOM argument.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 01, 2017, 11:47:32 pm
Ok I'm getting ahead of myself. Clearly it was RVS. And if nobody else sees anything in it, that's fine. I'll drop it.
On vacation this week so will just be periodically catching up. Doing that now.

Scummy and towny.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 01, 2017, 11:49:13 pm
Skumpy, Andrew, chairs are all townie, in descending order. That's a decent start for the game. And Teproc is an IC. We're starting to get some good PoE going here.
Awful.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 01, 2017, 11:51:16 pm
People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

I think skump is town. If he's scum, he would have run this "ask all the questions" plan by his scumbuddies, who very well may have thrown cold water on it.

Which player is IRL related to Galz? Also, why is there a wagon on Galz? I don't understand it.
Agree with the first part.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 01, 2017, 11:52:49 pm

Hi! Good vote. Well the reasoning could be better, but anyway I like where it ended up.

Can you tell us anything about yourself, maybe most importantly what we should call you? Xx? Raptor? Slayer? xrs? Pick wisely.

More voted the way I did because his accusation seemed shady

I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.
Little about myself, this is my first time playing a forum game, so forgive me if I make any mistakes.
things I like:
-long walks in the beach
-watching the sunset
-sarcasm
things I don't like:
-irony
-lists
Any other questions feel free to ask.
[/quote]
What's wrong with lists?? Their awesome.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 01, 2017, 11:57:48 pm
I also think I should definitely get a D1 pass.
No.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 02, 2017, 12:04:14 am
Vote: Faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 01:43:15 am
Where's RR at on votes? I don't mind joining a wagon on D1 strictly on activity basis.
Yeah me too. Lurking is a serious threat here. We have a lot of inactive players.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 01:44:45 am
Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

I wonder, how else do you suggest someone should defend themselves from accusations of being scum if not by pointing out things that they wouldn't do as scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 01:46:45 am
When another player says something I was thinking, or expresses a similar sentiment, without me prompting them or indicating that I feel this way, I read them as town.

No offense, but that's a crappy scumhunting technique.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 01:48:10 am
Not sue what you mean about letting others get into debates. Why would I debate things I don't have an opinion or read on?
In order to poke at people to figure out their alignment.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 01:49:55 am
The point is that you seem to be trying delegitimize his points on you by making him look like a punk that is picking on you. Nobody wants to side with a bully. But the point is perfectly valid.

Absolutely NOT what I'm doing. I disagree with him sure, but I'm not painting him as a bully or a punk. Just saying I don't feel like arguing with him anymore.
Then I am misinterpreting.
I think so. Andrew often reads like this to other people, and that is why he gets mislynched a lot.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 02:07:23 am
Not sure what I'm supposed to be doing with Jake... he comes in here, posts a series of one-liners, the only reads he gives are scum on me and town on Skumpy, which must be the least surprising reads ever - no comment on any other wagon, even if there are a couple to choose from. Instead we get to know that he likes lists.

Let's see where a vote: Jake gets us. I think the Galzria wagon has outlived its usefulness.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 02:08:11 am
Request prod on Xx

Doesn't help that the mod is VLA as well. I'm not sure my last prod to RR even got delivered yet.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 02, 2017, 04:44:30 am
Request prod on Xx


Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 02, 2017, 05:16:37 am
Request prod on Xx


Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.

How* not who
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 02, 2017, 06:25:08 am
vote: Skumpy

Yeah yeah I know, newbies and all, but there are three newbies in this game, we can't afford to take them all off the table.

This kind of self-awareness is manufactured. Shades of Ichi in DWII : clever newbie that was coached to appear as newbie-ish as possible but couldn't hide the fact that he knew stuff and came across as fake.

Also, how does a new town player make a joke about stuff being discussed in his scum QT night 0 ? Don't buy it.

Andrew is town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 02, 2017, 08:43:19 am
vote: RR. Even if that's the hammer, this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 10:12:37 am
Can I suggest that the IC be less open about their reads? Unless of course this is all just a clever ploy to let mafia slip up. But well, that's what I thought the last time you posted a read, and nothing came out of it, so now is probably a good time to mention this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 10:26:24 am
Request prod on Xx


Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.
Unfortunately, your waiting does not help us figure out if you are town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 02, 2017, 12:19:48 pm
Can I suggest that the IC be less open about their reads? Unless of course this is all just a clever ploy to let mafia slip up. But well, that's what I thought the last time you posted a read, and nothing came out of it, so now is probably a good time to mention this.

I know. You're right, I shouldn't have commented on Andrew, but I don't think I should entirely refrain from voting and making cases, do you ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 02, 2017, 12:36:28 pm
vote: Skumpy


Saw that one coming from a mile away. I like how it went 'guys, get on reading skump'. After townie reads from 5 (or so) different people, you decide I'm skum. I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone who pledged support for me is town, but I do love how you've been hoping someone would start the wagon on me, and when nobody does, you do it yourself.

This kind of self-awareness is manufactured. Shades of Ichi in DWII : clever newbie that was coached to appear as newbie-ish as possible but couldn't hide the fact that he knew stuff and came across as fake.


To be honest, I don't really care about winning this game, I just really want to win that shiny Newbie of the Year award I saw. Thanks for the compliment  :D Since I wasn't coached, I guess that means I'm just 'clever newbie'. So yeah, pretty cool. In all seriousness, If I'm supposed to have been coached, whom do you suspect? Faust? Galz? Robz?

Also, how does a new town player make a joke about stuff being discussed in his scum QT night 0 ? Don't buy it.

I did it by looking at the statement and identifying an opportunity for me to employ situational irony. The reason why that works and comes off as humorous (ideally) is because it's not expected that after someone mentions that I might scumslip, I will instantly do so even with my very recent warning.

Here's the funny thing though. Going into the game, I expected to get accused at some point because I knew my posts would come off as questionable and I was ready to give some major townie cred to whoever accused me because I doubted scum would start the Skumpy file. So you were literally the last person out of 12 I wanted voting for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 02, 2017, 12:37:59 pm
If you need anything else, officer, feel free to ask!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 02:29:00 pm
vote: Skumpy


Saw that one coming from a mile away. I like how it went 'guys, get on reading skump'. After townie reads from 5 (or so) different people, you decide I'm skum. I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone who pledged support for me is town, but I do love how you've been hoping someone would start the wagon on me, and when nobody does, you do it yourself.
You are aware that Teproc is confirmed town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 02:32:40 pm
Can I suggest that the IC be less open about their reads? Unless of course this is all just a clever ploy to let mafia slip up. But well, that's what I thought the last time you posted a read, and nothing came out of it, so now is probably a good time to mention this.

I know. You're right, I shouldn't have commented on Andrew, but I don't think I should entirely refrain from voting and making cases, do you ?
Ideally you should refrain from that I think. But given the slow pace of this game, it's probably better to give people things to discuss.

I don't really think Skumpy is town but can see where you're coming from. Still, I'd probably prefer a lurker lynch over Skumpy.

I will be here early tomorrow (my time) before I'm off and will place a final vote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 02, 2017, 02:36:59 pm
I sort of think Skumpy is scum but I hate to punish an active newbie.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 02, 2017, 02:59:52 pm
I sort of think Skumpy is scum but I hate to punish an active newbie.

Do what you gotta do, don't let the newbieness get in the way. Please don't, because you're wrong, but don't let my status stop you. For what it's worth, I was feeling the same way as you about both the Galz and the Andrew wagon, but while you once said that you trust people who think the same (which is me), I don't trust them (which is you).

I don't really think Skumpy is town but can see where you're coming from. Still, I'd probably prefer a lurker lynch over Skumpy.

Wait, what's your opinion of me? You posted once that you thought I was almost for sure town, then this post has 2 sentiments that I'm skum and 1 that I'm town.

vote: Skumpy


Saw that one coming from a mile away. I like how it went 'guys, get on reading skump'. After townie reads from 5 (or so) different people, you decide I'm skum. I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone who pledged support for me is town, but I do love how you've been hoping someone would start the wagon on me, and when nobody does, you do it yourself.
You are aware that Teproc is confirmed town?

I know. I never accused him of being scum, it was an expression of amusement. Lots have said I'm town (though I'm pretty sure that cred is slipping away, as I expected it would at some point), but Teproc still has had his beady little eyes on me this whole time (I'm picturing them as beady in my head anyways).

I'll be lurking around for a while since I get bored and frustrated a lot, so please keep communicating, I'm lonely. I'll try to make a better read later, though I highly doubt a Skumpy day 1 vote will ever be accurate. At this point, the only person who I'd be shocked to see be scum, besides Teproc, is Andrew. Everybody else is still pretty darn shady.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 02, 2017, 03:48:45 pm
I don't really think Skumpy is town but can see where you're coming from. Still, I'd probably prefer a lurker lynch over Skumpy.

Wait, what's your opinion of me? You posted once that you thought I was almost for sure town, then this post has 2 sentiments that I'm skum and 1 that I'm town.
Sorry, that should read "I don't really think Skumy is scum".
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 02, 2017, 05:41:26 pm
I don't really think Skumpy is town but can see where you're coming from. Still, I'd probably prefer a lurker lynch over Skumpy.

Wait, what's your opinion of me? You posted once that you thought I was almost for sure town, then this post
has 2 sentiments that I'm skum and 1 that I'm town.
Sorry, that should read "I don't really think Skumy is scum".
I agree
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 02, 2017, 06:48:57 pm
Request prod on Xx


Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.
Unfortunately, your waiting does not help us figure out if you are town.

Understand, I'll try to be more active
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 02, 2017, 07:21:52 pm
Request prod on Xx


Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.
Unfortunately, your waiting does not help us figure out if you are town.

Understand, I'll try to be more active

Yours is the slip others might be waiting for!

Also if you don't want to do the captcha each time you post, you just need to post at least once in the non-forum games part of the forum.  Any post, anywhere (well not RSP either) will dol
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 02, 2017, 07:28:58 pm
Has Jake made even a single post yet? If so, he's uncharacteristically forgettable here. Vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 02, 2017, 07:53:14 pm
Posts 193, 194, 195, 196, 197 & 198 were all Jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 02, 2017, 08:13:31 pm
Well. Here comes the mandatory vote: Robz vote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 02, 2017, 08:18:48 pm
Yeah, okay. I should have seen that Jake had appeared. He didn't have much to say though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 02, 2017, 08:31:21 pm
Hi guys. I'm still on vacation. Looks like chairs's vote on me wasn't the hammer. Cool beans.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 02, 2017, 08:33:49 pm
Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were v/la. I'll unvote.

Not super stoked about Skumpy right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 02, 2017, 10:40:44 pm
Robz seems to be pushing and trying to get traction on people without any really good reasons. It's the question marks again.

vote: Robz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 02, 2017, 11:31:17 pm
?
?
?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 03, 2017, 02:33:58 am
Okay, I do not have much more time left. Here's a reads summary:

The_Wine_Merchant - a bit less active than usual? The way he justified not commenting on some things seemed townie.
DatSwan - complete VLA, no idea
Robz888 - dunno. I feel like it will be easier to read him on later days.
Roadrunner7671 - also gone. He had a wagon on him, which doesn't make me a huge fan of this lynch.
AndrewisFTTW - seems like his town self. I don't really recall how well he fakes that as scum.
chairs - initially townie, and seems generally comfortable in his position. I think scum!chairs is (are) uncomfortable.
Xxraptorslayer96 - not really anything to say, but not VLA either. I think that if he was scum, his partners would have coached him to be a better newbie, so slight town read.
JaketheBaseballGod22 - did some scummy selective commenting and is other than that a non-presence. I don't like the way Galzria protected him and made it seem like he was really active in his last post.
Skumpy - active, I don't think the early confusion about the setup was faked. Seems townie.
gkrieg13 - don't really have anything on him. Well he's not great at D1s.
Galzria - scummy stuff has already been pointed out. On the other hand, he plays differently from M100, where he seemed much more intent on trying to convince others and revealing his thought process. I completely believe that scum!Galz is able to change his playstyle, but still it makes me stop. And Galzria is on the active spectrum, so I don't feel too great about a lynch there.

I suppose my vote stays on Jake. I'll be here some 2 hours longer to answer questions.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 04:22:21 am

Not super stoked about Skumpy right now.

Well, are you at least partially stoked? This obviously won't help Skummy Skumpy, but I'm willing to slide you a bit up the townie meter. Meaning my town reads now align with Faust's early post. Which makes me worried about Faust.

Skumpy - active, I don't think the early confusion about the setup was faked. Seems townie.

I would love to be scum and take credit for the helpless newbie play. Sadly, I really did spend an hour over the weekend carefully thinking, typing, and getting excited. If I play more mafia, I will be making my every first post a request for everybody to claim so we can get this over with.


People I'd be most wiling to lynch right now, in order of the people on Faust's post:
TWM (should probably reread, but I still don't like how he's not committed to anybody. But neither am I so....)
Robz (I have no clue here. Don't know if I really want to put his name down, but I would have no protestations if he's the one hanged today)
XX (I feel like both a traitor and a hypocrite for targeting him, but I feel like we should've had something by now from him.)
Faust (Like Jake, I'm against the 'don't lynch me, I'm vla'. I appreciate you standing up for me, but early town reads that I agree with aren't going to clear your name for me.)


Since I've accused at least 1 town, probably 4 (it's my first day 1, give me a break!), apologies to them.


Really though, I think Andrew and Chairs are the only ones off limits for me (for now anyways). Gkrieg is an absolute null, i honestly can't remember anything he's done besides defend Faust. Galzria is getting pushy, which I'd imagine is a bold move for scum, but he's clearly well aware of the WIFOM, so who's to say he's not doing it himself. RR, Jake, Datswan, I don't them see them getting lynched day 1, not enough interactions, but if I'm alive to see day 2, I'll be interested to know how they respond from going MIA for so long.

Faust, I doubt you'll be the day 1 lynch, but I also doubt Jake will, though I'm sure things can flip very quickly like they have so far. Which is why I don't really get the Jake vote - you might as well throw it somewhere that counts before you're gone.


I said before that I felt everything day 1 was random. I still do, so I have no idea how I've made as many reaches as I've made. Again, I'm a fan of information, so I wouldn't recommend taking anything I say seriously until we have some concrete information to work with. In the meantime, more than happy to keep defending myself against vicious Teproc attacks.




Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 03, 2017, 04:44:09 am
Faust (Like Jake, I'm against the 'don't lynch me, I'm vla'. I appreciate you standing up for me, but early town reads that I agree with aren't going to clear your name for me.)
There is nothing in here that suggests that I am scum, so why am I on here?

Faust, I doubt you'll be the day 1 lynch, but I also doubt Jake will, though I'm sure things can flip very quickly like they have so far. Which is why I don't really get the Jake vote - you might as well throw it somewhere that counts before you're gone.
I don't know why you think Jake won't be the lynch. Because he has limited availability? That's not a reason; we have a saying here that goes "lynch all lurkers" for a reason. And I do think Jake is the scummiest-looking player right now, so that's a good place for me to vote. Plus there's already another vote on him, so there's reason to think it might get more traction.

I wouldn't recommend taking anything I say seriously until we have some concrete information to work with.
I will take everything you say seriously.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 03, 2017, 04:46:09 am
Vote Count 1.2

faust (2): Roadrunner7671, JaketheBaseballGod22
AndrewisFTTW (1): Galzria
Roadrunner7671 (1): AndrewisFTTW
Galzria (1): Xxraptorslayer96
The_Wine_Merchant (1): Skumpy
Robz888 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): faust, Robz888
Skumpy (1): Teproc

Not voting (2): DatSwan, chairs

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 05:09:38 am
Faust (Like Jake, I'm against the 'don't lynch me, I'm vla'. I appreciate you standing up for me, but early town reads that I agree with aren't going to clear your name for me.)
There is nothing in here that suggests that I am scum, so why am I on here?

Faust, I doubt you'll be the day 1 lynch, but I also doubt Jake will, though I'm sure things can flip very quickly like they have so far. Which is why I don't really get the Jake vote - you might as well throw it somewhere that counts before you're gone.
I don't know why you think Jake won't be the lynch. Because he has limited availability? That's not a reason; we have a saying here that goes "lynch all lurkers" for a reason. And I do think Jake is the scummiest-looking player right now, so that's a good place for me to vote. Plus there's already another vote on him, so there's reason to think it might get more traction.

I wouldn't recommend taking anything I say seriously until we have some concrete information to work with.
I will take everything you say seriously.


1. There was more to it than that, but parenthesis can only be so long. Your posts have sometimes felt very towny, sometimes very scummy. I'm not going to be preaching for a wagon on you while you're gone.

2. I did post that before the vote count, so I had no idea how scattered the vote actually was. I was unaware of the lynch lurkers rule, which now explains why Robz hasn't voted for me yet. I suppose I'd actually be in favor of it day 1 when there's nothing else to go on. It seems very obviously scummy to lurk, but I guess that's where the WIFOM comes to play. Personally, don't love the Jake vote, but that has nothing to do with (1.)

3. Yeah, I get that. I might be understating it, but I think all of my votes are complete hogwash. I once spotted a post while perusing  the threads saying the day 1 lynch success rate was 30% or so, which is practically the equivalent of an absolute random vote. And based on this vote count, I sense the rate will be dropping shortly.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 03, 2017, 05:23:01 am
Lynching lurkers is not really a rule. If you ask me I think it's a terrible policy as lurking has nothing to do with alignment in a vacuum. There can be gmaes whre it feels like scum is lurking, but that's not "lynch all lurkers", it's "lynch people I think are scum for reason X", which is always better.

On the subject of lurkers, we need more from the Galz twinclaimers (DatSwan and XXraptor) and, well, really from everyone aside from faust/Skumpy.

chairs, what was the hammer comment about re: your RR vote ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 07:38:45 am
Humph
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 03, 2017, 07:44:41 am
Humph

Please elaborate.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 08:03:57 am
Humph

Please elaborate.
Vote: jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 03, 2017, 08:07:11 am
@faust - I wasn't thinking about what scum!chairs looks like, but when you said the thing about scum!chairs being uncomfortable, I was reminded suddenly of my truly awful performance in Harry Potter, which is the last game I can remember being scum. Good lord did you nail "uncomfortable" correctly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 02:54:29 pm
I don't like this vote because I really don't trust the people currently voting, but then I reminded myself that I honestly have no clue who's scum. This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

But frankly, I don't know how you can justify not posting by being on vacation, but still have time to play another mafia game.

Vote: jake

If he gets lynched and is town, I would really like the next lynch to be on one of the three people in front of me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 03, 2017, 02:59:23 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 03, 2017, 03:06:04 pm
I don't like this vote because I really don't trust the people currently voting, but then I reminded myself that I honestly have no clue who's scum. This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

But frankly, I don't know how you can justify not posting by being on vacation, but still have time to play another mafia game.

Vote: jake

If he gets lynched and is town, I would really like the next lynch to be on one of the three people in front of me.

Often, if you are on vacation, you choose to focus on the game that is further along, because it is the one that is more interesting, and the one that you are more important in.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 03, 2017, 03:06:58 pm
I'm not really feeling the Jake lynch right now.  I like to let him lynch himself when he is scum.  Not really posting doesn't seem like a very good plan.

Although if it is RR/Jake, I could see them being quiet to not be the D1 lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 03, 2017, 03:24:33 pm
What's on your mind, TWM?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 03, 2017, 03:28:04 pm
The Skumpy doth protest to much, methinks.

vote: Skumpy.

I get not being sure, and I get being new, but it feels like every post is shaded in headginess. More to the point, it feels more and more forced, like he REALLY wants is to know just how unsure he is.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 03, 2017, 03:29:50 pm
The Skumpy doth protest to much, methinks.

vote: Skumpy.

I get not being sure, and I get being new, but it feels like every post is shaded in headginess. More to the point, it feels more and more forced, like he REALLY wants is to know just how unsure he is.

He reminds me of TWM in TWM's first game, TWM was scum that game, too. Honestly I think skumpy is extremely likely to be scum but man do I hate to punish an active newb. Well, I am willing to vote here, I suppose.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 03:36:10 pm
This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 04:17:11 pm
Here comes my lynch mob. Twas to be expected

 
The Skumpy doth protest to much, methinks.

vote: Skumpy.

I get not being sure, and I get being new, but it feels like every post is shaded in headginess. More to the point, it feels more and more forced, like he REALLY wants is to know just how unsure he is.

Take a read through other things I've posted on the forum, including my /in for this game (there's only about 70, and half of them are for league). I am probably the most underconfident, self-underselling, argument-qualifying person ever.

 'he REALLY wants to know just how unsure he is'. You are absolutely correct. I am EXTREMELY unsure. I expect to have learned absolutely nothing until the reveal because it's pure random chaos until then, as shown by my shortly-incoming lynch.

He reminds me of TWM in TWM's first game, TWM was scum that game, too. Honestly I think skumpy is extremely likely to be scum but man do I hate to punish an active newb. Well, I am willing to vote here, I suppose.

To quote somebody who I don't remember from earlier: "I'm not [TWM]"

If I'm going to be lynched, I'd be honored to have your vote - I really don't want active newbie pity, though a second thought/read-through would be appreciated.


This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy



Yeah, I didn't think you'd be voting for anybody else. No surprises there either.


Unlike Andrew, when I'm on the chopping block, I think I get more resigned than fidgety. We shall see. I've posted all my thoughts on everyone within the last day, I don't think they'll be changing at all before the end of the day. If anybody wants to defend me, it would be very kind (and rational) of you. If I do get lynched today and play again (which is probable, though it'd be nice to learn something before I'm dead), hopefully you'll have a better read of me. I'll be around, keep me updated on my status!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 04:27:32 pm
What's on your mind, TWM?
?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 04:27:54 pm
The Skumpy comparison I thnk is bad.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 04:36:18 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.
Good
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 04:37:25 pm
This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy

vote probably wont' count
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 04:42:33 pm
This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy

vote probably wont' count

why wouldn't it count?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 04:49:01 pm
This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy

vote probably wont' count

why wouldn't it count?

No space between color and name

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 03, 2017, 04:49:32 pm
This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy

vote probably wont' count

why wouldn't it count?

You have to have a space after the colon.

Votes not made in the exact right format can't be searched via control + F, so mods are often sticklers on that point.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 05:04:25 pm

This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy



Yeah, I didn't think you'd be voting for anybody else. No surprises there either.


Unlike Andrew, when I'm on the chopping block, I think I get more resigned than fidgety. We shall see. I've posted all my thoughts on everyone within the last day, I don't think they'll be changing at all before the end of the day. If anybody wants to defend me, it would be very kind (and rational) of you. If I do get lynched today and play again (which is probable, though it'd be nice to learn something before I'm dead), hopefully you'll have a better read of me. I'll be around, keep me updated on my status!

You just come off as trying to play victim/detective card too much. Which would be the best way for you to cover your own. Only time will tell if my read is correct.


This is the 6th person I've accused so far - somebody here's made me into a dog chasing my own tail, and I don't like it very much.

I feel that you are just playing victim. Pointing out that you have made a ton [6] of votes. trying to hard to look Innocent. Skumpy is scum.

Vote:Skumpy

vote probably wont' count

why wouldn't it count?

No space between color and name

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.

Vote: Skumpy

thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 05:07:54 pm
^do you two know each other or is that datswan?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 03, 2017, 05:11:52 pm
datswan sounds like a meme I haven't met yet.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 05:18:53 pm
^do you two know each other or is that datswan?

Not I.

Only time will tell if my read is correct.

Well, time and me. It's not by the way. Since it's clear I won't be convincing you otherwise, I guess there's nothing more to be said about it. I feel like we've gotten off to a rough start. Anything else you want to talk to me about, pertaining to mafia or anything else?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 05:34:42 pm
^do you two know each other or is that datswan?

DatSwan, galz and I are all twin-claim
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 03, 2017, 05:45:05 pm
so... triplets?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 05:59:52 pm
Only time will tell if my read is correct.

Well, time and me. It's not by the way. Since it's clear I won't be convincing you otherwise, I guess there's nothing more to be said about it. I feel like we've gotten off to a rough start. Anything else you want to talk to me about, pertaining to mafia or anything else?

You just have not said anything convincing me you are town. And your actions lead me to believe that you are scum. My vote is based solely on your behavior and wording. You seem to have a lot of opinions (not a bad thing) but then you make it a point to that everyone knows how you are feeling and that you are guy asking the questions. This part just seems like something scum would do to throw town. My vote is not set in stone, but as it stands your actions lead me to believe you're scum. How do you plea?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 03, 2017, 06:00:28 pm
so... triplets?

Yes?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 06:33:53 pm
Only time will tell if my read is correct.

Well, time and me. It's not by the way. Since it's clear I won't be convincing you otherwise, I guess there's nothing more to be said about it. I feel like we've gotten off to a rough start. Anything else you want to talk to me about, pertaining to mafia or anything else?

You just have not said anything convincing me you are town. And your actions lead me to believe that you are scum. My vote is based solely on your behavior and wording. You seem to have a lot of opinions (not a bad thing) but then you make it a point to that everyone knows how you are feeling and that you are guy asking the questions. This part just seems like something scum would do to throw town. My vote is not set in stone, but as it stands your actions lead me to believe you're scum. How do you plea?

That was actually a pleasantly aggressive post, so thank you first off for that, it gives something I can work with. Everything I will write here will assume you are town, no point otherwise.

First part: what I 'just' said was meant for you. The fact that you haven't shared any opinions until today after 4 days suggests that you take your time with reads. If it took you 4 days to vote for me (I'm assuming the Galzria vote wasn't serious?) after all the shady stuff I've said (more on that later), I highly doubt you'll be changing your mind in the last 3. I'm the prime target and if the wagon leaves me and gets someones else killed, I don't believe for a second you're the person that's going to push for the change. So I didn't feel the need to try to convince you, though I have a little (not much) hope now after your last post.

Middle part: My behavior and wording. As I suggested to Galzria, I suggest you go back and read stuff I've posted on the forums in my short time here. Wording should match. As for behavior....I don't consider myself a combative person who tries to start conflict (why am I playing this again?), but I have an unfortunate tendency to say really stupid stuff that causes reactions. I learned a few years back IRL that I should learn to just shut my damn mouth because nobody wanted to hear me blab, and unfortunately, I've been forgetting that self-taught lesson recently. I'd link to some of past posts, but I don't know if it's allowed (can I get a confirmation on that from somebody?). If it's not, I haven't posted much here, just look for my long wordy posts and the reactions that followed. Again, if it's allowed, I'll link them. And again, I say and write very revealing things far more often than I should, and I regret it every time.

Next: Opinions (not a bad thing) - I disagree. I've been far, far more opinionated than I expected I'd be. No idea why. I sometimes feel confident here about reads, than I come back to reality and remind myself that I'm new to mafia, new to 12 people, and shouldn't be making the judgments I have been after no information has been revealed. I could play 50 games of mafia and my stance would be the same - I don't believe that anything good will come out of day 1 voting, which I'm aware is extremely hypocritical.

Next: Point that I'm feeling and asking questions. That's because I've been spending far more time lurking here than I should (more than anybody realizes probably), and there's a self-guilt if I don't actually say anything. So I talk, and in order to talk, I have to give opinions. But as I said before the game, my opinions would be wrong. I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a terrible people person. When I said don't take what I say seriously yesterday, I mean you can try and read me based on it, but don't expect any accuracy or for me to stick to my reads on future days if I'm still alive.

Next: 'Something scum skum would do to throw town'. No, it sounds like something Skumpy would do to everybody. I've had a habit in my life of making great first impressions, than butchering them very swiftly and surely. Again, you can look through past posts of the last 6 months and see hints of that. Nothing so far this game pertaining to me has surprised me, except maybe the IC being the one to get the focus on me.

I plea 'you're wrong and will be in for an unfortunate surprise. Please reconsider'.


That's my total defense, I really don't have anything more to add to that...ever really. If the lynch mob persists, I will gladly accept my fate, there's nothing more that I can do. XX, the offer to chat still stands.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 03, 2017, 06:47:24 pm
The Skumpy comparison I thnk is bad.

To expand on this point now that I am a bit more free. I specifically thought this post from Robz was bad.

The Skumpy doth protest to much, methinks.

vote: Skumpy.

I get not being sure, and I get being new, but it feels like every post is shaded in headginess. More to the point, it feels more and more forced, like he REALLY wants is to know just how unsure he is.

He reminds me of TWM in TWM's first game, TWM was scum that game, too. Honestly I think skumpy is extremely likely to be scum but man do I hate to punish an active newb. Well, I am willing to vote here, I suppose.
I feel I can speak to this, given that I am in fact, TWM. I was scum in that game. And for the purpose of this exercise will assume Skumpy is as well.

Robz's point I think is that in my game I was asking questions and getting very involved in the game very quickly. That is true. I did. I asked questions, tried to get people to engage with me about meta and theory and such. I voted a fair amount. And honestly didn't have a clue what I was doing but was trying really hard to fake it. As a result, most of my posts were pretty tame. I tried to look active, but I didn't want anyone actually looking at me.

Compare to Skumpy's posts. He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

To me, that isn't something that scum does. Or if they do it is because they are fully allowing their personality to come through. I think that is very hard for scum.

As a reminder, this is Skumpy's "/in" post when he didn't have an alignment:

So a little about me:

I am a horrible liar.
I am a horrible lie detector.
I crack under pressure easily.
If I play, I will very likely spend way too much time lurking and will ruin my life.
I may hate it and/or get overwhelmed and become apathetic very quickly.
Or worse, I may get addicted and continue to ruin my life.
I am very unfamiliar with mafia.
I would rather focus my free time on playing Dominion than on playing mafia.


However, there's 2 other important points.

1. If I'm going to spend as much time as I have been recently glancing through mafia games, I'm going to crack eventually and sign up for a game, so better sooner rather than later while it's still summer.

& 2 and most important: I would be remiss to spend as much time on the forum as I do and not give "Skummy Skumpy" a chance....

so /in

Looking forward to it!
It was the type of post I wasn't going to forget and I am surprised others seem to have forgotten it. All of his other posts that people are pointing out as skummy, I think reflect the tone of this post which is completely alignment neutral. I think what we are seeing is his personality and since it is a personality that attracts attention he is getting it. But I think skummy Skumpy would lower that down and not be as quiet "out-there"

So I think his wagon is bad, and I am probably completely wrong and will end up hanging my head in shame over this, but I am going to put it out there.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 03, 2017, 07:19:37 pm
^do you two know each other or is that datswan?

DatSwan, galz and I are all twin-claim

what does "twin-claim" mean? Are you saying you're IRL triplets?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 03, 2017, 07:43:23 pm
twinclaim (n): When a player informs others that they know another player in real life.  (First recorded instance was Jotheonah and Glooble in MIV)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 03, 2017, 07:45:44 pm
Unvote For now. Reasons.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 03, 2017, 07:57:05 pm
twinclaim (n): When a player informs others that they know another player in real life.  (First recorded instance was Jotheonah and Glooble in MIV)

Ah. I thought you three were actually triplets IRL xD.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 03, 2017, 11:18:15 pm
I'll ask again: Is there a way to quote farther than 15 posts back that doesn't require copy/pasting from a second tab?

OK, TWM just read me like "Green Eggs & Ham", and is 100% correct. If he's not scum, then he's the best reader here from what I can tell. With regards to your eccentric, flamboyant, and excessive, I did post this early on:

if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).


so no disrespect perceived or taken.


Looking back in retrospect, there are a few ways people could've chosen to read me
a) They are actually Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, so vote me
b) Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, but leave me alone since they're not sure and I'm new
c) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, so vote me
d) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, but are incredibly confused by why I'm playing so awfully, so they leave me alone in order to gain townie credit later on after I'm a quick early lynch

I never expected e though: understand me better than I understand myself and give a perfect assessment. When I said I'm a bad liar before, I think I see why I believed (and still do) that to be the case: there's absolutely no way I could talk in the same manner as I am now if I was skum, even if I like to believe I could, and I really do think I would hush up a lot more. For the record, I may type in a way that attracts attention, as TWM points out, but trust me, I really hate attention. But I also hate empty words, which is why you won't see me making a whole lot of short posts, apologies to the impatient people amongst you.

I think the fact that I'm so...unconventional...is the reason why I suspect those whose who I agree with/agree with me, and trust those who suspect me.

And TWM, I can promise you won't be hanging your head in shame. I don't know if I can clear you just yet, a scum would know I'm town and would have an easier time figuring me out, but at the very least, you're getting a voting exemption from me for a while. I also hope I won't have to hang my head in shame.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 04, 2017, 03:52:08 am
Only time will tell if my read is correct.

Well, time and me. It's not by the way. Since it's clear I won't be convincing you otherwise, I guess there's nothing more to be said about it. I feel like we've gotten off to a rough start. Anything else you want to talk to me about, pertaining to mafia or anything else?

You just have not said anything convincing me you are town. And your actions lead me to believe that you are scum. My vote is based solely on your behavior and wording. You seem to have a lot of opinions (not a bad thing) but then you make it a point to that everyone knows how you are feeling and that you are guy asking the questions. This part just seems like something scum would do to throw town. My vote is not set in stone, but as it stands your actions lead me to believe you're scum. How do you plea?

That was actually a pleasantly aggressive post, so thank you first off for that, it gives something I can work with. Everything I will write here will assume you are town, no point otherwise.

First part: what I 'just' said was meant for you. The fact that you haven't shared any opinions until today after 4 days suggests that you take your time with reads. If it took you 4 days to vote for me (I'm assuming the Galzria vote wasn't serious?) after all the shady stuff I've said (more on that later), I highly doubt you'll be changing your mind in the last 3. I'm the prime target and if the wagon leaves me and gets someones else killed, I don't believe for a second you're the person that's going to push for the change. So I didn't feel the need to try to convince you, though I have a little (not much) hope now after your last post.

Middle part: My behavior and wording. As I suggested to Galzria, I suggest you go back and read stuff I've posted on the forums in my short time here. Wording should match. As for behavior....I don't consider myself a combative person who tries to start conflict (why am I playing this again?), but I have an unfortunate tendency to say really stupid stuff that causes reactions. I learned a few years back IRL that I should learn to just shut my damn mouth because nobody wanted to hear me blab, and unfortunately, I've been forgetting that self-taught lesson recently. I'd link to some of past posts, but I don't know if it's allowed (can I get a confirmation on that from somebody?). If it's not, I haven't posted much here, just look for my long wordy posts and the reactions that followed. Again, if it's allowed, I'll link them. And again, I say and write very revealing things far more often than I should, and I regret it every time.

Next: Opinions (not a bad thing) - I disagree. I've been far, far more opinionated than I expected I'd be. No idea why. I sometimes feel confident here about reads, than I come back to reality and remind myself that I'm new to mafia, new to 12 people, and shouldn't be making the judgments I have been after no information has been revealed. I could play 50 games of mafia and my stance would be the same - I don't believe that anything good will come out of day 1 voting, which I'm aware is extremely hypocritical.

Next: Point that I'm feeling and asking questions. That's because I've been spending far more time lurking here than I should (more than anybody realizes probably), and there's a self-guilt if I don't actually say anything. So I talk, and in order to talk, I have to give opinions. But as I said before the game, my opinions would be wrong. I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a terrible people person. When I said don't take what I say seriously yesterday, I mean you can try and read me based on it, but don't expect any accuracy or for me to stick to my reads on future days if I'm still alive.

Next: 'Something scum skum would do to throw town'. No, it sounds like something Skumpy would do to everybody. I've had a habit in my life of making great first impressions, than butchering them very swiftly and surely. Again, you can look through past posts of the last 6 months and see hints of that. Nothing so far this game pertaining to me has surprised me, except maybe the IC being the one to get the focus on me.

I plea 'you're wrong and will be in for an unfortunate surprise. Please reconsider'.


That's my total defense, I really don't have anything more to add to that...ever really. If the lynch mob persists, I will gladly accept my fate, there's nothing more that I can do. XX, the offer to chat still stands.

As I have stated before and will say once more, my vote isn't set in stone and my vote toward you isn't personal.

I understand your argument - that you are not acting strange, it's just your personality. I do acknowledge that your previous posts show you ask a lot of questions. And these posts do hold a similar tone.

You do recognize that you act different then most and draw attention to yourself. So I hope you understand that I still just can't let it go just yet. You seem suspicious and I don't know if it is worth risking you being scum because you used similar language before. You are a veryinteresting character. My vote stays the same.. for now.

Chat away skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 04, 2017, 12:03:13 pm
That's a pretty compelling argument to me from TWM re: Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 12:31:49 pm
Robz seems to be pushing and trying to get traction on people without any really good reasons. It's the question marks again.

vote: Robz
Agree
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 12:37:34 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 12:39:41 pm
I'm not really feeling the Jake lynch right now.  I like to let him lynch himself when he is scum.  Not really posting doesn't seem like a very good plan.

Although if it is RR/Jake, I could see them being quiet to not be the D1 lynch.
Someone brings this up every game we play together and yet it still has never happened.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 12:48:57 pm
I'll ask again: Is there a way to quote farther than 15 posts back that doesn't require copy/pasting from a second tab?

OK, TWM just read me like "Green Eggs & Ham", and is 100% correct. If he's not scum, then he's the best reader here from what I can tell. With regards to your eccentric, flamboyant, and excessive, I did post this early on:

if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).


so no disrespect perceived or taken.


Looking back in retrospect, there are a few ways people could've chosen to read me
a) They are actually Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, so vote me
b) Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, but leave me alone since they're not sure and I'm new
c) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, so vote me
d) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, but are incredibly confused by why I'm playing so awfully, so they leave me alone in order to gain townie credit later on after I'm a quick early lynch

I never expected e though: understand me better than I understand myself and give a perfect assessment. When I said I'm a bad liar before, I think I see why I believed (and still do) that to be the case: there's absolutely no way I could talk in the same manner as I am now if I was skum, even if I like to believe I could, and I really do think I would hush up a lot more. For the record, I may type in a way that attracts attention, as TWM points out, but trust me, I really hate attention. But I also hate empty words, which is why you won't see me making a whole lot of short posts, apologies to the impatient people amongst you.

I think the fact that I'm so...unconventional...is the reason why I suspect those whose who I agree with/agree with me, and trust those who suspect me.

And TWM, I can promise you won't be hanging your head in shame. I don't know if I can clear you just yet, a scum would know I'm town and would have an easier time figuring me out, but at the very least, you're getting a voting exemption from me for a while. I also hope I won't have to hang my head in shame.
This reads scummy to me. Vote: Skumpy
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 01:05:56 pm
Am I already voting Jake? vote: Jake just to make sure.

Votes with only justification that something reads scummy. Completely ignores my defense, that I consider very legitimate, and should require some logic or explanation to vote despite it.

See Jake as joining a bandwagon without adding any value to the wagon and (what I assume is) intentionally dismissing the information against it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 04, 2017, 01:11:51 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 01:16:01 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

And I think a type A would at least provide some sort of reasoning or anything after the large amount of content available to justify why they still want to vote for you.

Type C as scum, probably should if they don't want to be suspected by the likes of me, but it is a lot easier to just vote and hope you get away with it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 04, 2017, 01:32:54 pm
I'm not really feeling the Jake lynch right now.  I like to let him lynch himself when he is scum.  Not really posting doesn't seem like a very good plan.

Although if it is RR/Jake, I could see them being quiet to not be the D1 lynch.
Someone brings this up every game we play together and yet it still has never happened.
Very much agree with this. If Jake and I were partners, I think it would be pretty bad.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 04, 2017, 01:34:53 pm
And I don't think too much of Skumpy. Newbies play differently, and different doesn't equal scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 04, 2017, 01:39:18 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 04, 2017, 02:13:24 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

I'd love to tell you I have a pretty good idea, but I really don't. I posted the best reads I had around the time faust was leaving, and they haven't changed much from that.


You'll have to take my word for it that TWM read me perfectly, and only as a token of my gratitude, he gets a pass from me for a while. But as I said before, it's easier to read people when you know for a fact they're town. Is TWM known to be a good reader or no? Or are their people here who are normally good readers who completely blew it on this one?

I feel OK about leaving my vote on Jake for now, but I have to think that if he is town, there's at least 1 scum on his wagon right now, a feeling supported by the fact that I was uneasy by all of them before they even started voting for him. My stronger town reads feelings have been close to faust's and my feelings on the wagons have been similar to Robz's.

And I don't think too much of Skumpy. Newbies play differently, and different doesn't equal scummy.
That's a suspiciously un-opinion-ated comment. Surely he's felt something about me one way or the other? (go ahead anybody, say the line).

Gkrieg, chairs, staying in the shadows, not shredding much light on anything.

XX, I don't know what to think. We play very differently, and I'm not sure if it's a standard first-time-scum play to keep quiet and out of sight or a first-time-town play to keep quiet while they try to get a read on things. I was leaning more towards the former for a while, not so sure anymore.

DatSwan, obviously nothing.

I don't think it's Andrew.

If Galzria is scum, the comments of other people suggest that I'm not going to be figuring him out for a while. Very quickly unvoted for me after TWM's post, was he really swayed or was he getting off a sinking ship?



A joke for everybody: what do you get if you cross an Elephant and a Rhino? Answer: 'Hell If I Know', which is the answer to your question Teproc. I'll stick with Jake for now, but I could be convinced to switch to several others, probably Robz at the top of the stack. We'll see which way the wind blows I guess.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 04, 2017, 02:27:45 pm
Vote Count 1.3

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
The_Wine_Merchant (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy
Skumpy (2): Xxraptorslayer96, JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (4): DatSwan, chairs, Galzria, Teproc

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 02:38:38 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?
That entire part with the 4 types was why I voted you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 02:47:07 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another. 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 04, 2017, 02:58:05 pm
I could join the Robz train.

Problem is... I can't really put my finger on why I find him scummy. I think part of it is his feigned lack of understanding in regards to my early wagon. While the wagon was wrong (note: not bad. Almost all wagons have value), I didn't think it was hard to understand. It felt like he was helping derail my wagon with no good reason for him to do so - that is, I have a hard time understanding town!Robz taking the stance he did unless it's to try and garner town points down the line at some point.

It's not a good argument, I know. Which is partially why I struggle with being town so much. As scum I can make crap up. As town I'm generally trying to make something from nothing and end up with... well, not very much.

It's just a gut read I suppose. Maybe Robz just reads me crazy well. But it really rubs me wrong when others defend me - even passively as he did.

Bleh. Sure, vote: Robz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 04, 2017, 03:00:32 pm
I could join the Robz train.

Problem is... I can't really put my finger on why I find him scummy. I think part of it is his feigned lack of understanding in regards to my early wagon. While the wagon was wrong (note: not bad. Almost all wagons have value), I didn't think it was hard to understand. It felt like he was helping derail my wagon with no good reason for him to do so - that is, I have a hard time understanding town!Robz taking the stance he did unless it's to try and garner town points down the line at some point.

It's not a good argument, I know. Which is partially why I struggle with being town so much. As scum I can make crap up. As town I'm generally trying to make something from nothing and end up with... well, not very much.

It's just a gut read I suppose. Maybe Robz just reads me crazy well. But it really rubs me wrong when others defend me - even passively as he did.

Bleh. Sure, vote: Robz

I just didn't want you to get lynched right off the bat!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 04, 2017, 03:00:42 pm
I could join the Robz train.

Problem is... I can't really put my finger on why I find him scummy. I think part of it is his feigned lack of understanding in regards to my early wagon. While the wagon was wrong (note: not bad. Almost all wagons have value), I didn't think it was hard to understand. It felt like he was helping derail my wagon with no good reason for him to do so - that is, I have a hard time understanding town!Robz taking the stance he did unless it's to try and garner town points down the line at some point.

It's not a good argument, I know. Which is partially why I struggle with being town so much. As scum I can make crap up. As town I'm generally trying to make something from nothing and end up with... well, not very much.

It's just a gut read I suppose. Maybe Robz just reads me crazy well. But it really rubs me wrong when others defend me - even passively as he did.

Bleh. Sure, vote: Robz

The bolded thought got it's wires crossed. I have a hard time seeing Town!Robz acting the way he did - whereas scum!Robz has no reason to push my lynch there and he could be trying to buy town points down the line.

Still not a great argument mind you, but it's what I meant to say there.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 04, 2017, 03:02:19 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

I'd love to tell you I have a pretty good idea, but I really don't. I posted the best reads I had around the time faust was leaving, and they haven't changed much from that.


You'll have to take my word for it that TWM read me perfectly, and only as a token of my gratitude, he gets a pass from me for a while. But as I said before, it's easier to read people when you know for a fact they're town. Is TWM known to be a good reader or no? Or are their people here who are normally good readers who completely blew it on this one?

I feel OK about leaving my vote on Jake for now, but I have to think that if he is town, there's at least 1 scum on his wagon right now, a feeling supported by the fact that I was uneasy by all of them before they even started voting for him. My stronger town reads feelings have been close to faust's and my feelings on the wagons have been similar to Robz's.

And I don't think too much of Skumpy. Newbies play differently, and different doesn't equal scummy.
That's a suspiciously un-opinion-ated comment. Surely he's felt something about me one way or the other? (go ahead anybody, say the line).

Gkrieg, chairs, staying in the shadows, not shredding much light on anything.

XX, I don't know what to think. We play very differently, and I'm not sure if it's a standard first-time-scum play to keep quiet and out of sight or a first-time-town play to keep quiet while they try to get a read on things. I was leaning more towards the former for a while, not so sure anymore.

DatSwan, obviously nothing.

I don't think it's Andrew.

If Galzria is scum, the comments of other people suggest that I'm not going to be figuring him out for a while. Very quickly unvoted for me after TWM's post, was he really swayed or was he getting off a sinking ship?



A joke for everybody: what do you get if you cross an Elephant and a Rhino? Answer: 'Hell If I Know', which is the answer to your question Teproc. I'll stick with Jake for now, but I could be convinced to switch to several others, probably Robz at the top of the stack. We'll see which way the wind blows I guess.

Sorry, I lost my cell phone and my car AND I'm moving this week so I haven't been as active as I was hoping. Thanks for calling me out though (I don't mean that sarcastically) - I didn't realize I was hanging back.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 04, 2017, 03:02:54 pm
I'm always down for a Robz lynch!

vote: Robz888
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 04, 2017, 03:04:00 pm
I could join the Robz train.

Problem is... I can't really put my finger on why I find him scummy. I think part of it is his feigned lack of understanding in regards to my early wagon. While the wagon was wrong (note: not bad. Almost all wagons have value), I didn't think it was hard to understand. It felt like he was helping derail my wagon with no good reason for him to do so - that is, I have a hard time understanding town!Robz taking the stance he did unless it's to try and garner town points down the line at some point.

It's not a good argument, I know. Which is partially why I struggle with being town so much. As scum I can make crap up. As town I'm generally trying to make something from nothing and end up with... well, not very much.

It's just a gut read I suppose. Maybe Robz just reads me crazy well. But it really rubs me wrong when others defend me - even passively as he did.

Bleh. Sure, vote: Robz

I just didn't want you to get lynched right off the bat!

I didn't want to get lynched right off the bat either - but I know I'm town! Town!Robz plays "the good guy" far less than Scum!Robz in my experience. Not that it's a solid point - but I just don't feel you jump to my rescue as town all that often without an actual good reason to do so.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 04, 2017, 03:14:05 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?
That entire part with the 4 types was why I voted you.

What's wrong with lists?? Their awesome.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 04, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 04, 2017, 03:52:33 pm
My reason, Galz, was that it would be nice to have a game where we are on the same side, so why not home that's the case for now?

Obviously scum!Robz would come up with something more convincing than this...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 04:06:46 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?
That entire part with the 4 types was why I voted you.

What's wrong with lists?? Their awesome.
Not about the fashion of expression of info but the content.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:36:48 pm
Vote Count 1.3

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
The_Wine_Merchant (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy
Skumpy (2): Xxraptorslayer96, JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (4): DatSwan, chairs, Galzria, Teproc

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time.
I guess Jake didn't nearly jump as large of a wagon as I had thought. Makes my point less strong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:37:32 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
I am not confident you are even reading my posts at this point.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:38:38 pm
I'm always down for a Robz lynch!

vote: Robz888
Why was chairs so townie again?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 05:43:18 pm
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
I am not confident you are even reading my posts at this point.
I am
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:43:35 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Who are you talking about here? Me? That is who Teproc was asking about right? Except you are all sorts of messed. I don't think I acted uncivily toward you, but was trying to make sure you weren't putting suspicion on Galz in a scummy way.

My large post defending Skumpy was made after you called me weird. And I was never going after Skumpy. And I have been totally active and involved.

Can you basically clarify everything? Cause you have me all sorts of confused. It seems like you are combining multiple people into one.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:43:56 pm
I am
Well that is nice.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 04, 2017, 05:44:08 pm
I am
Well that is nice.
I am reading yours too.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 04, 2017, 06:31:23 pm
I am
Well that is nice.
I am reading yours too.
Cool
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 04, 2017, 07:37:13 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Who are you talking about here? Me? That is who Teproc was asking about right? Except you are all sorts of messed. I don't think I acted uncivily toward you, but was trying to make sure you weren't putting suspicion on Galz in a scummy way.

My large post defending Skumpy was made after you called me weird. And I was never going after Skumpy. And I have been totally active and involved.

Can you basically clarify everything? Cause you have me all sorts of confused. It seems like you are combining multiple people into one.

Hmm that's possible. I should go back and make sure I got all my facts right.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 04, 2017, 07:54:55 pm
Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?
[/quote

Been a long week. Still trying to get used to forum. Getting reads off of only words can be difficult as you already probably know, but i think of myself as a quick learner so hope to become more accustom to it shortly.   
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 04, 2017, 08:04:15 pm

Well, you're either type A or type C, Jake. Did my post before that do nothing for you?

Chat away skumpy.

Very well Xx. Since I've attempted far more than enough reads for day 1...how's your week been?


Been a long week. Still trying to get used to forum. Getting reads off of only words can be difficult as you already probably know, but i think of myself as a quick learner so hope to become more accustom to it shortly. 

** what the post should of looked like, i guess im still not great at the whole forum thing.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 05, 2017, 10:49:44 am
Quick rant since I don't have time to really provide reads right now and I want to explain why:

This is the last day of my lease - my stuff has to be out today.

It's raining cats and dogs :(
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 05, 2017, 10:58:38 am
Vote count right now :

Jake (4): faust, Robz, Skumpy, TWM
Robz (3): gkrieg, Galzria, chairs
Skumpy (2): XXraptor, Jake
faust (1): RR
TWM (1): ANdrew

Not Voting (2): DatSwan, Teproc

Deadline is tomorrow. A Sunday, so people are going to be absent.

People who do not want to lynch Jake of Robz: it is now time to agree on someone else.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 05, 2017, 10:58:46 am
Unvote For now. Reasons.

Pretty sure I want to hear those (Galz was on Skumpy).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 05, 2017, 12:02:42 pm
Unvote For now. Reasons.

Pretty sure I want to hear those (Galz was on Skumpy).

He's a newbie being put under pressure for the first time. He was active in his responses and didn't show anything that indicated he's more likely to be scum than town and I would rather not yet punish an active new player. There's time and ways enough to catch him if he's scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 05, 2017, 12:27:46 pm
vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 05, 2017, 02:18:32 pm
I'd rather lynch Jake than Robz, although no one really seems like a good lynch candidate for today. It's been sort of a slow D1 for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 05, 2017, 02:22:35 pm
vote: Jake

Reasons?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 05, 2017, 02:26:26 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Who are you talking about here? Me? That is who Teproc was asking about right? Except you are all sorts of messed. I don't think I acted uncivily toward you, but was trying to make sure you weren't putting suspicion on Galz in a scummy way.

My large post defending Skumpy was made after you called me weird. And I was never going after Skumpy. And I have been totally active and involved.

Can you basically clarify everything? Cause you have me all sorts of confused. It seems like you are combining multiple people into one.

Hmm that's possible. I should go back and make sure I got all my facts right.

Yup. For some reason I thought xx was you. I suck.

Unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 05, 2017, 02:38:12 pm
Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Who are you talking about here? Me? That is who Teproc was asking about right? Except you are all sorts of messed. I don't think I acted uncivily toward you, but was trying to make sure you weren't putting suspicion on Galz in a scummy way.

My large post defending Skumpy was made after you called me weird. And I was never going after Skumpy. And I have been totally active and involved.

Can you basically clarify everything? Cause you have me all sorts of confused. It seems like you are combining multiple people into one.

Hmm that's possible. I should go back and make sure I got all my facts right.

Yup. For some reason I thought xx was you. I suck.

Unvote
It's cool. So does that make XX look scummier to you?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 05, 2017, 02:41:34 pm
Right now I think gkrieg and chairs are worth looking at just out of memory and that they havent gotten much attention yet. But honestly, I agree with RR, there hasn't been a whole lot to look at. I think the Skumpy wagon is probably the best place the best place to try and get info.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 05, 2017, 03:16:07 pm
vote: Jake

Reasons?

I'm absent tomorrow, and think he is a more likely lynch than Robz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 05, 2017, 03:20:32 pm
vote: Jake

Reasons?

I'm absent tomorrow, and think he is a more likely lynch than Robz.
But is he a better lynch than Robz?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 05, 2017, 10:03:11 pm
OK.

I am operating under the assumption that Skumpy is town. If that is incorrect, well, then I imagine everything below will be faulty. But I actually feel pretty good about that town read. My town reads, I feel are more reliable--as they should be for most players--than my scum reads. But not always. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17316.msg701251#msg701251)

So the Skumpy wagon - it got this big:

(4) Teproc, Galz, raptor with Jake voting after Galz and Teproc unvoted although it felt bigger as there were other individuals that said they could or would vote there. Robz probably being the main one I can remember. Mostly I feel this wagon is interesting as it basically has the IC's goldstamp of approval and would be considered a "safe" place to vote. This makes me lean scummier on raptor and Jake. I don't really think Galz or Robz would feel the need to be "safe" with their vote as their votes are often already goldstamped in a sort of way. But at the same time Robz didn't vote himself. Who was Robz voting for instead? Jake. Ok. That is a decent vote, obviously. Since I am there.

Hmmm. This isn't being as useful as I thought it might be unfortunately.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 05, 2017, 10:05:13 pm
I am going to pull a Teproc and ask the group a question. To those not voting for Robz or Jake why aren't you voting for them? (not accusatory here or necessarily saying you should as we still have a bit of time, just wondering and want honest answers)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 01:04:52 am
I think a problem with analyzing wagons on newbies is that scum can hide behind the excuse that 'they don't wanna lynch a newbie on D1,' so they always have a reason to not join the wagon. This makes bussing sort of unnecessary so it gets harder to push a lynch through.

Seeing as the Skumpy wagon got nowhere, this actually makes me scummy on Skumpy :p
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 01:24:30 am
I think a problem with analyzing wagons on newbies is that scum can hide behind the excuse that 'they don't wanna lynch a newbie on D1,' so they always have a reason to not join the wagon. This makes bussing sort of unnecessary so it gets harder to push a lynch through.

Seeing as the Skumpy wagon got nowhere, this actually makes me scummy on Skumpy :p
Good thing your vote is on Faust, which is the only vote, and who is VLA
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 01:25:05 am
I've got a really busy morning. Probably won't be on at deadline. FYI
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 06, 2017, 02:51:24 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 03:42:10 am
On my phone, rereading and taking notes in this tab.

Skumpy first post is an interesting one. It definitely reads as something newbie town would say, but it has almost too much newbieness in it. Saying that people can read him like a book when he is scum, and asking questions are two things I would definitely coach a newbie to do. I know he has read some old games, because I have seen him reading old games (creepy, I know). 

So he is definitely someone to keep an eye on.

I still think galz is pretty scummy for the post where he says that Andrew is playing like he does as scum.

Also there isn't a better way than quoting into a new tab and then copy paste. If you hold down control in a new tab and then click and type axw then paste into your other tab, that is what I do.

Even skumpy in #84 shows he really knows quite a bit about mafia, and even about mafia on our forum.

Man he is either one of my favorite new players, or is just really talented scum trying to say he is a complete newb.

Faust seems like town.

Not so sure about his town read on Andrew. It is pretty easy to obsess about something to look townie. I think I'm paranoid today...

I REALLY don't like galz in 102. Very scummy way to call someone else scummy

Robz also is pretty scummy for how he disagrees with the galz wagon.

Don't really like TWM's answers for not liking the wagons D1.

Chairs really does feel very townie here.

Galz has a townier defense later in the day. Not as keen on lynching him.
Not sure what to think of the joke in 153. Skumpy saying a joke about the scum QT just sounds a little off for how little he has joked before.

Andrew's thing that galz points out definitely lessens my town read on him.

Andrew/TWM makes me think TWM is town just purely based off of tone drone TWM.

Uh, Jakes entrance is pretty scummy. Doesn't really comment on any of the big things, while not giving a great reason for his Faust vote.

Ok at 200, posting so I don't lose it.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 04:06:11 am
I'm not sure how to take XX's lurking. There have been some great newbies that lurk then come through and have great reads, so I'm waiting for that great reads moment.

Even skumpy's defense is pretty townie, but could be manufactured. It is like he is too townie!  He like does every townie thing ever.

I don't like that Robz case on Jake is so open ended, and doesn't have that great of reasoning.

I don't really like XX's case on skumpy. Doesn't seem very genuine to me.

I like TWM's defense of skumpy. Definitely good reasoning that shows he has been trying to get real reads on people.

So, town are TWM, chairs, skumpy, tentatively Faust, galz, Andrew

Scum are RR, Jake, and probably XX?  Could also be Robz, or datswan.

I think that is everyone?

Actually XX's kind of defense of Jake where he looks for reasons of me makes me feel better about them being both scum.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 04:07:18 am
So I really want to lynch Jake, would also go for Robz or XX. RR doesn't feel super duper scummy to me yet, even though I think he is on the team for lurking.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 06, 2017, 05:10:41 am
Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 06:00:06 am
First off, I need to apologize to you XX, I did a horrible job of continuing our chat. Yeah, it takes some time to get used to it - there's so many and yet so few text edit buttons. It took me a while to figure out how to link to a tab without copy/pasting the entire url.

It's currently about 3 in the morning my time, the lynch is in 7 hours. I'll try to be around then, but I could oversleep and I'll be groggy if I do make it. I'll do my best though!

I'll do some addressing in the direction of gkrieg. Yep, I've been spending a lot of time lurking on the forums lately, especially in the mafia games (I don't know if the 'creepy' was for you and me, but it's definitely very creepy of me). I should probably be working, but I have no attention span whatsoever. Hopefully for my sake, I'll start spending less time once summer break ends (since I've never done an official intro, if you hadn't already guessed that I'm one of the younger ones here, I'm 20 years old - I'll get around to the introductions thread later).

I didn't know much about the mafia here before like a month ago, now I do. Probably never would've joined, but M100 was too crazy to not inspire me. But I don't really read through posts that much at all - the lynches and the reveals are the fun part. Most of my pre-formed notions of players' skills are based on how long they've been active on f.ds, which corresponds well for the most part to their experience with mafia.

This is my freebie game - nobody knows anything about how I play, they just have to believe me when I say I'm town. After this game when you find out I am indeed telling the truth, you'll have a baseline for me and will indeed have an easy time trusting me when I'm town and immediately seeing through my weak deceptions when I'm skum. I just need you all to go out on a limb for me this once. So when you say 'I do every townie thing ever'...yeah, it's cause I'm a bad liar so there will be a very clear difference between Skumpy and Skummy Skumpy. If you (anyone-you, not gkrieg-you) don't think I'm town after my post where I basically spilled my life story on an internet forum whereas I never have IRL, then you're just a heartless bastard   :) :)

In defense of XX, if he has little previous experience and doesn't know how to approach it, then I'd make for a very reasonable and sensible first accusation. Which is not at all to say he is in fact town, but I can see rational in it if he is.

Now for the upcoming lynch:

I also really like the way TWM approached it all in #321. I really do hope he's town because he's done a masterful job otherwise arguing his side. Gkrieg got his back, which I'd think would either confirm my hopes or pinpoint them both as scum...I'd think the former's more likely (note I didn't say that necessarily means gkrieg would be town, but I'd lean that way). As a newbie town player, I've done some thinking with regards to TWM's using-Skumpy's-wagon-to-judge plan, and I've had some ideas:


That a scum could gain some trust by an accurate, early, yet undefended, town read off an active newbie

That they wouldn't be aware how different/strange/suspiciously skummy Skumpy is at the time of the post

That they wouldn't have had the foresight to start a lynch mob on him

And when the lynch mob does start, they can pledge their support to cast suspicion on someone else, and make a vote that's very justified

And when a defense is made and the wagon breaks down, they lose all interest in furthering discussion either towards town or skum

All of which matches up very nicely with one person in particular...

Vote: Robz



Still totally fine with a Jake lynch, but I'm more partial to Robz I think. If I'm alive for day 2, the other's my first first pick for a lynch then. I'll try to be around at the deadline, but I can't make promises. Best of luck to everybody - may we all see each other in the morning safely!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 06:00:31 am
Also, I promise to make an effort to write shorter posts.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 06, 2017, 10:42:50 am
I'm keeping my vote on Jake, this is my preferred lynch right now. Will not be around much today, but will try to check back in before deadline.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 10:59:41 am
Deadline in 2 hours. I'll be there... rereading Jake and Robz right now. With Jake being a virtual vote on Robz (since he'll vote there if he has to for self-preservation), both wagons are at L-2.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 11:09:39 am
Alright, I know who I'd vote for between the two. I'll be around until deadline if my vote is needed.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 06, 2017, 11:24:17 am
 I'm content with Robz and will have ZERO access over the next 8 hours.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 11:24:42 am
Jake is a superior lynch to Robz. Robz will at least answer questions directed at him. Jake just tries to slide in and avoid being noticed. Even if he is town that is horrible.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 11:26:57 am
And FoS to RR for still being on faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 11:28:07 am
And FoS to RR for still being on faust

Why RR more than DatSwan and Andrew ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 11:34:25 am
FWIW, I do agree with the general idea that people need to be getting on one of the two wagons. I specifically would want DatSwan.

@Galz/XXraptor: Is DatSwan still V/LA ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 11:34:52 am
want DatSwan to show up/vote* is how the sentence above was supposed to go.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 11:35:55 am
Because if he (?) was going to be V/LA for literally all of D1, it would have been worth asking for an extension, but it's too late for that I guess.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 11:36:11 am
And FoS to RR for still being on faust

Why RR more than DatSwan and Andrew ?
I thought he had posted since I talked with him about still being on Faust. But he hasn't posted since the post i responded to. Which is still bad, but not as bad.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:08:38 pm
Deadline in less than an hour, people.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 12:08:54 pm
This day is really hard with so many lurkers and VLAers. I am basically willing to lynch anyone that hasn't posted in the last 24 hours.

Just vote Jake everyone that comes online in the next hour.

If Jake were town, or playing the game, maybe he would actually answer the questions he is asked and post with at regular intervals instead of offering up this:

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
I am not confident you are even reading my posts at this point.
I am
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 12:09:14 pm
Deadline in less than an hour, people.
Hi Teproc.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:11:04 pm
Deadline in less than an hour, people.
Hi Teproc.

I'll vote, don't worry. But I want the people currently absent to make their choice without knowing which lynch is more likely. Pointless if they're both town, but very relevant if one is scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 12:14:06 pm
Deadline in less than an hour, people.
Hi Teproc.

I'll vote, don't worry. But I want the people currently absent to make their choice without knowing which lynch is more likely. Pointless if they're both town, but very relevant if one is scum.
Oh sure. My posts don't apply to you obviously. :) If Skumpy hadn't left Jake I would be much more confident that we would get a lynch, I think that was an unfortunate choice on his part. I've got to leave in a bit as well, so hopefully people (basically anyone at this point) show up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:16:11 pm
Of course if no one ever shows up, it's pointless anyway, as one vote does not a lynch make. So you know, show up people !

Is there no one there aside from me and TWM ? I should have foreseen this I suppose, sundays are always tough.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:19:27 pm
I'll ask this: TWM, how do you feel Jake and Robz's play compare to their play in Fleetwood Mac ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 06, 2017, 12:20:34 pm
This is my last check in, and since I am not at L-1, I'm not going to claim. Also, I really don't want to claim, so I probably wouldn't anyway.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 12:26:25 pm
I'm around for five minutes. Should I switch to Robz?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:27:48 pm
I'm around for five minutes. Should I switch to Robz?

Can you be around for more ? Or right before deadline ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 12:31:09 pm
I'll ask this: TWM, how do you feel Jake and Robz's play compare to their play in Fleetwood Mac ?
Without going back and looking at that game I can't see any dissimilarities or similarities. I died so early in that game and it was weird with multiple factions. I don't even know the alignments of Robz and jake in that game. And on mobile so not going to go look.

Right now jake is scummy. I can see why people are saying Robz is scummy but I don't totally agree. Robz is at least playing the game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 12:32:25 pm
I would rather gkrieg not move and hope someone else shows up to lynch jake. But teproc can ale final call if he wants, or just leave it up to gkrieg to do what he wants is probably best.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:33:12 pm
I would rather gkrieg not move and hope someone else shows up to lynch jake. But teproc can ale final call if he wants, or just leave it up to gkrieg to do what he wants is probably best.

I'm hoping more people show up and don't want to tell gkrieg what to do, yeah. Also, if it was really 5 minutes, that window has passed now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 12:46:24 pm
Traveling right now and switching buses and such, so I don't know my availability
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 12:46:45 pm
Deadline is in 14 mins right?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:47:30 pm
Correct.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:48:05 pm
ake (4) : faust, Robz, TWM, gkrieg
Robz (4) : Galzria, chairs, Xxraptor, Skumpy
faust (1) : RR
Skumpy (1) : Jake

Not voting (3) : DatSwan, Teproc, Andrew

This is the votecount
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 12:48:15 pm
vote: Robz
In case I don't make it back. Otherwise I will try to hammer Jake if it gets there.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:48:38 pm
Takes 7 to lynch. So both wagons need 3 more votes.

PPE: K.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:49:53 pm
To be extra clear to anyone arriving in a hurry, this is the votecount

Robz (5) : Galzria, chairs, Xxraptor, Skumpy, gkrieg
Jake (3) : faust, Robz, TWM
faust (1) : RR
Skumpy (1) : Jake

Not voting (3) : DatSwan, Teproc, Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:53:42 pm
I really should have made everyone state whether or not they'd be around at deadline. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 12:54:04 pm
I made it with 10 minutes to spare, doesn't look like there's much to add though. Sorry TWM, I just feel a little better about Robz. Maybe should I be more suspicious of lurkers, but I don't know if the past rate of lurkers=scum is high or not.

We don't need 7 votes, correct? It's just the person who has the most votes?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:54:55 pm
I made it with 10 minutes to spare, doesn't look like there's much to add though. Sorry TWM, I just feel a little better about Robz. Maybe should I be more suspicious of lurkers, but I don't know if the past rate of lurkers=scum is high or not.

We don't need 7 votes, correct? It's just the person who has the most votes?

We do need 7 votes. Otherwise it's no lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 12:55:56 pm
Then we're screwed.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 12:57:10 pm
Vote: Tobz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 12:57:30 pm
Vote: Robz
I made it!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 12:58:46 pm
Hello?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 12:59:30 pm
Teproc!!!!!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 12:59:42 pm
We're running out of time!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 12:59:44 pm
Alright, RR made it, excellent.

vote: Robz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 01:00:03 pm
I had the vote ready, was waiting to see if someone else would hammer.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 01:00:15 pm
Alright, RR made it, excellent.

vote: Robz
14 seconds to spare
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 01:00:30 pm
RR, give me a heart attack why don't you?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 01:00:54 pm
Way to give me a heart attack.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 01:01:21 pm
Oh PPE didn't show up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 01:02:25 pm
Well, now we have a long twilight (a day or so). I want people who were absent (Andrew and DatSwan mostly) to come in and tell us what they'd have done, so we have it on record.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 01:02:36 pm
I knew the deadline was today but I never checked what time it was. Me showing up was just a lucky break
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 01:03:22 pm
Vote: Tobz

I am, however, very disappointed that this didn't say "vpte: Rpbz"
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 06, 2017, 01:03:53 pm
Also, "Tobz" should replace "town!Robz" from now on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 01:27:27 pm
I'm surprised no one said anything about my reread except skumpy
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 01:44:19 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 06, 2017, 01:44:48 pm
Please kill me during the night.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 06, 2017, 01:52:45 pm
Glad my vote went to the right place, Can someone tell me what time zone the forum is in?

Well, now we have a long twilight (a day or so). I want people who were absent (Andrew and DatSwan mostly) to come in and tell us what they'd have done, so we have it on record.

DatSwan should return in the next 24Hr, I believe. 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 06, 2017, 01:56:29 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 02:03:32 pm
Glad my vote went to the right place, Can someone tell me what time zone the forum is in?

Well, now we have a long twilight (a day or so). I want people who were absent (Andrew and DatSwan mostly) to come in and tell us what they'd have done, so we have it on record.

DatSwan should return in the next 24Hr, I believe.

US eastern time
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 06, 2017, 02:07:07 pm
Glad my vote went to the right place, Can someone tell me what time zone the forum is in?

Well, now we have a long twilight (a day or so). I want people who were absent (Andrew and DatSwan mostly) to come in and tell us what they'd have done, so we have it on record.

DatSwan should return in the next 24Hr, I believe.

US eastern time

TY
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 06, 2017, 02:26:34 pm
Ugh, seriously? Well I am a Vanilla Townie. Not sure what I did wrong here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2017, 02:27:33 pm
Ugh, seriously? Well I am a Vanilla Townie. Not sure what I did wrong here.

I think scum was voting for you, and then you became the only possible lynch, even if you weren't a great one.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 06, 2017, 02:28:30 pm
I think Skumpy is actually truly scum and should be lynched tomorrow. I sort of have a bad feeling about Galz, though I understand why he voted for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Robz888 on August 06, 2017, 02:29:09 pm
It's mildly crazy though that anyone could actually think THIS is scum Robz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 06, 2017, 02:39:43 pm
Sorry guys, seriously slacking here. Very busy and also I recently moved across the country so... timezone stuff. I know, bad excuses. This week is less hectic so I'll do better from now on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 06, 2017, 03:26:26 pm
I think Skumpy is actually truly scum and should be lynched tomorrow. I sort of have a bad feeling about Galz, though I understand why he voted for me.

I think Skumpy is also, but it lost the wagon and you came off scummier then jake to me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 06, 2017, 03:39:37 pm
I think Skumpy is actually truly scum and should be lynched tomorrow. I sort of have a bad feeling about Galz, though I understand why he voted for me.
Don't see where robz was scummy at all. Definitely agree about lynching Skumpy tomorrow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Skumpy on August 06, 2017, 03:50:39 pm
For TWM and Robz: the problem is half the players aren't always here. I know they have their reasons and I know this is just a game that should have no precedence whatsoever over vacationing and unexpected complications, but for the purposes of winning, it certainly doesn't help. I'm not trying to accuse or demand different of people, but it just makes it tougher to win.

@gkrieg: When I was switched wagons, it made it 4 to 4. I'm sorry I was late, but if I had been on time and seen you, RR, and Teproc (or whoever, take your pick) were all on Jake for 6 votes, I would have had no problem switching back over. I did not abandon the Jake case for a sudden Robz case, I just flipped my top 2 priorities.

@Tobz: I apologize, I went into this game expecting me to be wrong the first day. Based on TWM's post, I thought I suddenly saw the light and everything falling into place. Apparently, that was not the case.

I'm not going to plead my defense now, Robz, but while you're still alive, why exactly do you think I'm skum? I've been wary of you for a while, but so have a lot of other people, so not sure why I'm getting singled out here. For your comment about people not recognizing scum Robz: I don't know what Tobz is like.

Assuming Robz is telling the truth, I think the TWM theory on the XX/Jake team is the most compelling for me at the moment. Depending on how the night goes, that's where my first suspicions will lie. It looks it'll all be moot since I'm back on the chopping block, but I won't go down without a fight.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 06, 2017, 04:44:10 pm
Sorry folks - just got my computer up.

Robz, are you really town?  :'(
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 06, 2017, 05:03:47 pm
For TWM and Robz: the problem is half the players aren't always here. I know they have their reasons and I know this is just a game that should have no precedence whatsoever over vacationing and unexpected complications, but for the purposes of winning, it certainly doesn't help. I'm not trying to accuse or demand different of people, but it just makes it tougher to win.

@gkrieg: When I was switched wagons, it made it 4 to 4. I'm sorry I was late, but if I had been on time and seen you, RR, and Teproc (or whoever, take your pick) were all on Jake for 6 votes, I would have had no problem switching back over. I did not abandon the Jake case for a sudden Robz case, I just flipped my top 2 priorities.

@Tobz: I apologize, I went into this game expecting me to be wrong the first day. Based on TWM's post, I thought I suddenly saw the light and everything falling into place. Apparently, that was not the case.

I'm not going to plead my defense now, Robz, but while you're still alive, why exactly do you think I'm skum? I've been wary of you for a while, but so have a lot of other people, so not sure why I'm getting singled out here. For your comment about people not recognizing scum Robz: I don't know what Tobz is like.

Assuming Robz is telling the truth, I think the TWM theory on the XX/Jake team is the most compelling for me at the moment. Depending on how the night goes, that's where my first suspicions will lie. It looks it'll all be moot since I'm back on the chopping block, but I won't go down without a fight.

I do not understand the Jake and I team argument?  Because i voted Robz over him, isn't that exactly what everyone else did? Can you enlighten me?

I think team is Skumpy and TWM: Skumpy has scum written all over him. He comes off too townie. TWM ran to defense of Skumpy when the wagon was on him, and skumpy seems to jump on his theory of Jake and I with out much reason.

Noted: Not a fan of jake but seems to not say much to raise suspension thus far.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on August 06, 2017, 05:05:58 pm
Jake/Raptor/TWM calling it now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: LaLight on August 07, 2017, 12:26:00 am
The more time goes the more I love the flavor of this game. LaLight was sitting in the bus from Hanover to Hamburg with quite unstable wifi at 6am and was trying to close Mafia day from the phone. Well, nothing good can happen out of it, right? :)

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

Robz888 was lynched! He was Good Memory, a Vanilla Townie!

Night 1 starts now and ends in 48+-2 hours based on my availability. Deadline for night actions is August 9th, 12.00 am FT. Thread locked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 09, 2017, 02:29:23 am
Next morning LaLight woke up and realized that now it is a dsy off for real. He could really not go anywhere,
he did not have any stuff to accomplish. Well, he thought so.

What he did not know though was that LaLight's cat, Monica, found his notebook and played with it until it fell behind the closet.
No one can retrieve it now.

gkrieg13 was killed in the night! He was Careful Planning in Notebook, the Town 3-shot Alignment Cop!


Day 2 Starts!

Vote Count 2.0

Not voting (11): faust, The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, Roadrunner7671, AndrewisFTTW, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, JaketheBaseballGod22, Skumpy, Galzria, Teproc

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 02:40:44 am
Well crap.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 02:41:40 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 02:42:45 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 02:50:21 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria

Are you voting me because you think it's bad play, or because you think I'm scum?

vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 02:51:30 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria

Are you voting me because you think it's bad play, or because you think I'm scum?

vote: faust
Both. That is, I don't think it's the kind of play that town would ever make. And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

And why are you voting for me?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 02:51:59 am
(or you know, just premature claims - I guess it wasn't exactly fake.)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 09, 2017, 03:07:32 am
I picked a bad setup for my first game.

I'm not going to join Galzria in the claiming, at least not until I've/we've thought it through some more. I don't think as of right now there's much to be accomplished - scum can claim a PR or VT without any obstacles. I'd imagine scum could split it like 1 PR, 2 VT. I think it's a townie move to claim immediately, but if Galz is scum, apparently it's a standard crafty move on his part? Even so, definitely don't care for a faust vote on him right off the bat.

So I've got some defending of myself to do. I guess my town game is the equivalent of others' scum games: I put stuff out there as I see and I try to be as candid as possible. Clearly, it's bringing a lot of suspicion to me.

If it comes down to it, I might have to accept sacrificing myself today. I'm too much of a mystery to people, including at least 2 townies, so maybe my reveal will help people get on the right path, i don't know. I don't want to die, but I get that it might help.


I had one or two thoughts during my slumber, but I'm going to hold off on saying it for a couple days and see if a certain somebody else decides to speak up first, though I can guess how they'll react if I accuse them. Long story short, new scum member idea, which is obviously correct since my first one went so well. I will share my realization later, though it could hurt town.

Oh yeah...and crap.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 03:08:36 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 03:11:14 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria

Are you voting me because you think it's bad play, or because you think I'm scum?

vote: faust
Both. That is, I don't think it's the kind of play that town would ever make. And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

And why are you voting for me?

Because I believe you're aware of a pro scum claim and one that isn't.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 03:13:50 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 03:14:31 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.

I got that. Why do you think that ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 03:19:07 am
BTW, people should reread gkrieg.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 03:24:00 am
Because I believe you're aware of a pro scum claim and one that isn't.
::)

So you're basing your vote on one instance of me disagreeing with you rather than the plentiful interesting interactions and flips that we have seen so far.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 03:34:44 am
BTW, people should reread gkrieg.

I think this is the most important section:

So, town are TWM, chairs, skumpy, tentatively Faust, galz, Andrew

Scum are RR, Jake, and probably XX?  Could also be Robz, or datswan.

The town read on Galzria confuses me because gkrieg points out some scummy things before that, but there you go. I think gkrieg gets killed for accurate town reads, and well it helps that I also think Skumpy, chairs, TWM are town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:00:47 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.

I got that. Why do you think that ?

Couple of things:

I planned to do it regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:03:48 am
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:12:11 am
Because I believe you're aware of a pro scum claim and one that isn't.
::)

So you're basing your vote on one instance of me disagreeing with you rather than the plentiful interesting interactions and flips that we have seen so far.

So, like, exactly the same reason you're voting me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:12:40 am
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:15:56 am
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC

Why do you think they didn't ?

Also, what about the traditional reasons not to claim VT, namely that it makes it easier for scum to PoE PRs ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:29:11 am
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC

Why do you think they didn't ?

Also, what about the traditional reasons not to claim VT, namely that it makes it easier for scum to PoE PRs ?

Because you're alive and Gkrieg died? What?

And yes, the second point has merit. I'm not convinced about it though. I mean, we'll see.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:30:30 am
This was poorly phrased. What I meant was: Why do you think they chose not to kill the IC, given that you thought this was the most likely outcome ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:33:19 am
Still poorly phrased really, but you get the idea hopefully ? Why did they not do what you expected them to do (kill me) ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:36:32 am
Still poorly phrased really, but you get the idea hopefully ? Why did they not do what you expected them to do (kill me) ?

Yes - I get your meaning.

There are a lot of different reasons - but the one that jumps out the most is if they know Mod #3 is active and assume you were Watched.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:41:55 am
I'm sorry to be insistent about this, but what would those other reasons be ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:43:01 am
And by that I mean, setup-related reasons, not "scum thought gkrieg was a PR" reasons. There's the possibility of a doctor (similar to Watcher), but that's it right ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 09, 2017, 04:43:45 am
Hi! Stopping by one last time before bed.

I was gonna answer Teproc's question for Galzria, but he beat me to it. He's also forgetting Doctor - there's a 75% chance one of the roles is in play, and you were their most likely patient/watchee. There's a lot to be gained from killing you, but the risk makes it not worth it. Makes sense to kill someone who nobody suspects and hasn't done anything remotely scummy yet.

I'm wondering if scum's going to try to do something like purposely no-night-kill to prove a fake doctor claim. With the cop dead night 1, it's definitely a very safe move now to fake a Universal Backup claim.

Teproc, thoughts on me?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 04:44:13 am
Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.
Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 04:45:12 am
I was gonna answer Teproc's question for Galzria
It's generally bad practice to do that. If Teproc wanted your anwser, he would have asked for it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:47:26 am
@Skumpy: I would generally refrain from answering people's question for them. Which you didn't do I know, just noting it for the future.

As for thoughts on you, I have some, but I'll also advise you to worry less about that and more about who's scum. Not that you shouldn't worry about people thinking you're scum, but it seems to be your only worry right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 04:50:46 am
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:55:12 am
I'm sorry to be insistent about this, but what would those other reasons be ?

Other reasons could be Doctor, yes. I was thinking non - setup related though. Not "They thought Gkriek was a PR's mind you - but more along the lines of maybe your reads are bad, or maybe they've felt like they can manipulate you, or maybe Gkrieg's reads were especially good, or even just for the sake of setting up any of the above lines of thought.

There's both setup reasons for not killing you and meta reasons for not killing you. I still thought it was more likely than not to have happened - but obviously I was wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:56:16 am
Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.
Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 04:59:59 am
Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.
Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree
What a shocker.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 05:01:06 am
I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 05:03:38 am
Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.
Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

Disagree how ? You've only listed survivalist reasons, which are alignment-neutral, are they not ?

@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?

@Everyone: Discussing these things is fine and productive, but a reminder to be careful not to show your knowledge (or lack thereof) of which modifications are present.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 05:11:36 am
@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?
Well, obviously his statement would be a lie if he's scum and actively made the decision to kill you, so you wanted to see if he could back it up with sound reasoning. Also there's an option in there to have him slip up on PR info that he cannot have.

I can only assume that you yourself weren't too surprised at still being alive. I know I didn't think it was a weird kill, but then I have been disengaged with the game for a couple of days.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 05:20:43 am
Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.
Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

Disagree how ? You've only listed survivalist reasons, which are alignment-neutral, are they not ?

@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?

@Everyone: Discussing these things is fine and productive, but a reminder to be careful not to show your knowledge (or lack thereof) of which modifications are present.

I disagree with faust's assessment because I think he's wrong. I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched, I do believe we're more likely to lynch scum because of my claim, and I don't believe my claim will help scum find PR's.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 05:25:55 am
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contract each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 05:26:21 am
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.
EBWOP
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 05:27:13 am
I don't believe my claim will help scum find PR's.
So you probably also believe Teproc's IC status doesn't help us finding scum...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 09, 2017, 05:34:15 am
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.
I don't
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 09, 2017, 05:36:01 am
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC
Why
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 05:42:28 am
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 05:48:54 am
I think faust's position on Galz's claim is clear (and Galz's answers to that), we can move on. Don't think we want this to dominate the discussion right now (meaning faust v Galz, I do think other people coming in should share their thoughts on Galz's claim obviously). There's a lot of D1 stuff to talk about.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 07:33:58 am
Vote: jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2017, 07:40:27 am
Vote: jake
It's a reasonable thing to do.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 09, 2017, 08:34:45 am
Vote: jake
This seems fun and I might have to join you.

In other news, Galz has been saying over and over that 'it's not something scum would do.' This is obviously a terrible argument, because playing well as scum requires you doing things that people don't thinl scum would do. So why is his logic so bad? Either he's town or didn't plan this claim out very well. I don't know that much about Galz's playstyle but I'm pretty sure he's a vet, so I think he planned this out. I still don't want to give him townpoints for doing that though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 10:26:44 am
Jesus.

I'm going to have to reread gkrieg, I guess.

Not happy with Galz claiming - there was no pressure and you could've soaked up a death for any potential PR.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 10:57:19 am
Hmm. gkrieg edged scum on Galz early D1 but then went Town. I realize he didn't have any Cop results at this point but I do think he's a fairly decent player so I'm trying to take into account some of his thoughts while keeping in mind it's D1 material and he only had so much to go on.

I like his point about raptor and jake seeming scummy together. vote: jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 03:12:07 pm
Ha.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 03:15:43 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 03:18:44 pm
BTW, people should reread gkrieg.

I think this is the most important section:

So, town are TWM, chairs, skumpy, tentatively Faust, galz, Andrew

Scum are RR, Jake, and probably XX?  Could also be Robz, or datswan.

The town read on Galzria confuses me because gkrieg points out some scummy things before that, but there you go. I think gkrieg gets killed for accurate town reads, and well it helps that I also think Skumpy, chairs, TWM are town.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 03:43:42 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
I'll answer that when my questions have been answered. My answer depends on what those answers are.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 09, 2017, 03:58:04 pm
Hmm. Not sure where to start. Rereading Grieg. I guess I can hope on the jake wagon for now.

Vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 03:58:54 pm
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 09, 2017, 04:06:17 pm
I'm starting to feel like the Raptor/Jake theory is too easy, It's worrying me a little bit. PPE: And now he voted him. Great.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.

Firstly, I think you mentioned you had an opinion on who you'd rather lynch, which I don't recall you ever saying - I'd like to hear that at some point.

Obviously, I was the cause of Robz' lynch, there's not much of a mystery there. It was 5-3, I had a sudden thought, and I flipped. Jake and Robz had been my top 2 for a while, and I decided to switch them 7 hours before the deadline, which put a lot of pressure on everybody. If Robz hadn't already had 3 votes and I didn't think there was a point to voting him, I probably would've stayed on Jake.

That was my first blunder, the second was oversleeping and getting there 12 minutes before the lynch, which was also like 5 after gkrieg flipped. If I'd been there earlier, we could've negotiated, but I do think I ultimately would've stood by my thoughts and forced the veteran to join me in voting Robz, because that clearly makes sense. Now it was 5-3, and only 2 people were there at the final deadline, so there was no option. Had there been more, who knows?


One thing I absolutely want to make clear: even if I was skum, there is absolutely no way I would claim 'sorry, I'm late', and purposely skip the deadline to help the faction. I think it's a lousy and lame move to lurk and not fight for a 'no, this is bad. Not lynching him'. So you can blame me for being late and causing a mislynch, but don't accuse me of being skum for it.

So yes, Teproc, it was me! I caused the death of an innocent recently-birthdayed man!

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 04:08:20 pm
I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

I don't think so. If scum!RR has a chance to hammer town then he'll go for it. Also:

I'd rather lynch Jake than Robz, although no one really seems like a good lynch candidate for today. It's been sort of a slow D1 for me.

He says he prefers a Jake lynch but doesn't put his vote there, then disappears until the hammer. So I guess you could point to him maybe protecting a partner? But on the other hand he could've just as easily have put an earlier vote down on Robz if that was the case. Yeah I think I agree with faust on him being pretty towny.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 04:09:08 pm
Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 04:18:11 pm
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.

That's fair. But I'm not defending myself by saying "I wouldn't do this as scum.", I'm saying "This wouldn't be optimal play if I were scum.", which is notably different.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 09, 2017, 04:23:53 pm
Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

sigh. *If I ever am skum*. I'd like to think I can be crafty enough to make fake reads.


I'm not so sure how I feel anymore about a Jake lynch. He's not my number 1 suspect anymore, but his death maybe could help some regardless of how he reveals. Which is also a good reason to vote me, but let's not worry about that right now. I'm not going to help with a quicklynch, but I'm a willing voter if the deadline approaches.

XX, why did you vote Jake over me?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 04:39:38 pm
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.

That's fair. But I'm not defending myself by saying "I wouldn't do this as scum.", I'm saying "This wouldn't be optimal play if I were scum.", which is notably different.

So you WOULD do it as scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 09, 2017, 04:44:18 pm
Or I guess you're saying you COULD do it as scum? Or maybe you're defending yourself by saying it's not the optimal play and thus you wouldn't do it as scum because you only play optimally?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:44:30 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
I'll answer that when my questions have been answered. My answer depends on what those answers are.

What questions would that be ? I only see a Jake vote today, and some general complaining at the end of day 1 ? What is you want answered exactly ?

Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

Also, since almost everyone has posted and no one has pointed it out, I'll explain my line of thought earlier when questioning Galzria. You see, he forgot a very important factor in the NK dynamics for night 1 in this setup, which is that in addition to being an IC, I'm a 1-shot Commuter. Notably, faust also forgot about this, and seemingly everyone else. Well, at least three people (or less if scum is in the people not posting), either pretended to forget (because you can be sure this was a subject of conversation in the scum QT last night) or simply missed that this was what I was trying to get out of Galz.

What this means to people's alignment, I'll leave to you (general you), for now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:45:20 pm
I guess DatSwan is the only "people not posting" left, by my count.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 04:53:11 pm
One thing I'll say about the dynamics of yesterday's lynch. Either

a) Jake is scum.

or

b) Jake is town.

Simple enough. If a), then scum had to be working to make sure Robz was the lynch to happen, to save Jake. The nice thing is that one of the people this would lead me to is... gkrieg. Skumpy is the other one, as he explained himself just above. gkrieg dying is an interesting wrinkle there.

If it's b), scum didn't care. Especially once I somewhat prematurely (sorry about that) estimated that we'd only lynch in those two unless someone mounted a strong case against someone else.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 05:10:00 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 09, 2017, 05:13:52 pm
Galz - whether or not you claim as skum or don't claim as skum... you are claiming to be town. Why claim town? What's your gain? We all know what your gain would be if you are skum, but what is the gain if you are town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 05:22:26 pm
Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

This.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 05:22:59 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

To be fair, my fear there was no lynch, and we came perilously close to it. I hoped doing that would give the game some urgency, but taht didn't quite work. That it didn't is relevant though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 05:24:08 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 05:33:08 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 05:39:32 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

Right but... how does that indicate one over the other ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 09, 2017, 05:56:47 pm
Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

This.

I'm not asking what you would do as skum. More importantly, why claim townie and then not give an answer?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 09, 2017, 06:02:52 pm
Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

sigh. *If I ever am skum*. I'd like to think I can be crafty enough to make fake reads.


I'm not so sure how I feel anymore about a Jake lynch. He's not my number 1 suspect anymore, but his death maybe could help some regardless of how he reveals. Which is also a good reason to vote me, but let's not worry about that right now. I'm not going to help with a quicklynch, but I'm a willing voter if the deadline approaches.

XX, why did you vote Jake over me?

I guess I'm still just giving you space to see how you play, arguments were semi compelling in on D1 that you were town. You still throw me as odd but rather keep you around if you truly are town

Jake also jusy throws me as odd but he has yet to prove he's not scum to me in any way. Vote will likely change but I don't mind casting my vote towards him as now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 06:05:22 pm
Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

This.

I'm not asking what you would do as skum. More importantly, why claim townie and then not give an answer?

I've already answered that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 06:06:24 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

Right but... how does that indicate one over the other ?

Unwillingness to swap from one person to the other? Although maybe I'm misreading and scum was trying to push a no lynch in the first place.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 09, 2017, 06:14:09 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

Right but... how does that indicate one over the other ?

Unwillingness to swap from one person to the other? Although maybe I'm misreading and scum was trying to push a no lynch in the first place.

Ah, so you see it as scum already being on the Robz wagon mostly, and just waiting for town to crack ? I see.

That would then implicate Galz, XXr, Skumpy and, well, you. So just those three (and Jake) from your PoV I suppose.

Skumpy's move especially would be the big one there. What do you think of the gkrieg kill in light of that theory ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 06:19:29 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
I'll answer that when my questions have been answered. My answer depends on what those answers are.

What questions would that be ? I only see a Jake vote today, and some general complaining at the end of day 1 ? What is you want answered exactly ?
Well 322 was a question that I asked and absolutely no one answered. It is similar to your question, but was actually asked before the deadline when it was more useful and could have prevented a Robz lynch.

But beyond that I just want more from Jake honestly. I think his vote on Skumpy was scummy and bad, dismissed (without providing a reason why) all of my points about Skumpy, has persistently shown up, but offered no more than one word or line responses, has skirted around suspicion. I want him to respond to some posts (specifically mine about him being scummy) rather than just ignore them. Until that happens and I can get some sort of actual read off him I don't know if he is town playing boorishly or scum trying to hide. And until I know the answer to that (or at least start down that path) I can't answer your question in a way that is meaningful.

But I am happy to just vote for him and lynch him if it comes to that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 06:20:45 pm
I've got to leave work now, but initial thought is that I still find it difficult to believe Skumpy is scum, he's just... too weird?

Now that you've pointed that out, it leans me towards the "pushing to no lynch" possibility more.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 06:21:26 pm
But then why would scum be trying to no lynch if they could just get a mislynch instead? I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 06:23:14 pm
I'm a 1-shot Commuter. Notably, faust also forgot about this, and seemingly everyone else. Well, at least three people (or less if scum is in the people not posting), either pretended to forget (because you can be sure this was a subject of conversation in the scum QT last night) or simply missed that this was what I was trying to get out of Galz.

What this means to people's alignment, I'll leave to you (general you), for now.
I forgot about it. Actually, it isn't forgetting. I never knew that. So I very much missed what you were trying to get out of Galz/faust, but it does make them townierish. But I do think the way you were asking was vague enough (as it needed to be) that he might not have felt the need to explain something that you would obviously already know about yourself?

So I think it ends up null. If another player, that wasn't you, had asked, it might have more meaning.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 06:24:43 pm

Vote Count later

Can we get this?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 09, 2017, 07:00:52 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: LaLight on August 09, 2017, 07:09:14 pm

Vote Count later

Can we get this?

Done.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 09, 2017, 07:13:37 pm
Vote Count 2.1

Galzria (1): faust
faust (1): Galzria
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): The_Wine_Merchant, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96

Not voting (6): DatSwan, Roadrunner7671, AndrewisFTTW, JaketheBaseballGod22, Skumpy, Teproc

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 09, 2017, 07:15:26 pm
vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 07:17:58 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
No.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 09, 2017, 07:39:55 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
No.

Why so serious? Can't answer simple questions? Can't explain your reasoning of your own words?
Scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 09, 2017, 07:48:48 pm
Home now, but I feel like I've basically reached the same conclusion as earlier where I'm just stumped as to the actions that occurred at the very end of D1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 08:17:00 pm
I had a town read on chairs d1 that is quickly evaporating.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 08:20:46 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
No.

Why so serious? Can't answer simple questions? Can't explain your reasoning of your own words?
Scum.
I don't feel like explaining why I was an asshole. Being an asshole, in my opinion, isn't alignment indicative. It is more indicative of the mindset that I was in for other, real life reasons.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 08:25:08 pm
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
No.

Why so serious? Can't answer simple questions? Can't explain your reasoning of your own words?
Scum.
I don't feel like explaining why I was an asshole. Being an asshole, in my opinion, isn't alignment indicative. It is more indicative of the mindset that I was in for other, real life reasons.

Basically, it's not game related so no need to pursue.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 09, 2017, 08:55:36 pm
Teproc, regarding the 1-shot commuter: I was planning to mention in the post, and then it slipped my mind and I forgot about it ;D
Honestly, I don't think there's much to be gained from that. No doubt it was discussed in the QT - maybe scum could play dumb, maybe it's a town honest mistake, there's better things to read into than that.

As for the a) jake is scum b) town:

a) scum.
Well, the theory about me flipping to save a teammate I know is wrong. So many people were away that's is easy for scum to be among them and have an easy excuse. This includes faust: I didn't expect a Jake wagon to take off when he voted, maybe he's lying when he said he disagreed? (I don't know, just one theory, and per my promise about shorter posts, I won't Delve into it).

The only person who I'd give a pass to for sticking to Jake is TWM. Assuming jake is scum, and twm didn't flip to Robz when that lynch was looking better and TWM's saved me from a lynch, then it's a genius scum play on his part. I won't even be mad, hat's off to him if that's the case, and I will know better next time.

b)town
Then yeah, scum didn't care. Only two other wagons day 1 were Galz, which was so early that it was unlikely to happen quickly, and me, which is wrong. So scum flew way under the radar.


So in conclusion: I don't know.

Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 09:02:02 pm
 He's not my first choice, but I have no reason to town read him either.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 09:12:00 pm
Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 09, 2017, 09:23:14 pm
Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.

That's a bad reason to lynch. Everybody who lurks is "not showing they're a bad" - and this very much does NOT make them good lynches. It makes them good default lynches if no better options present themselves - but not good lynches.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 09, 2017, 10:10:46 pm
Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.

That's a bad reason to lynch. Everybody who lurks is "not showing they're a bad" - and this very much does NOT make them good lynches. It makes them good default lynches if no better options present themselves - but not good lynches.
I think that is what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: faust on August 10, 2017, 01:32:57 am
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 10, 2017, 01:43:55 am
Galz - whether or not you claim as skum or don't claim as skum... you are claiming to be town. Why claim town? What's your gain? We all know what your gain would be if you are skum, but what is the gain if you are town?
You should probably post in another part if the forum to raise your post count to 1, which means you no longer need to confirm you're not a bot.

Also you need to post a list with your reads on all living players.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on August 10, 2017, 01:48:05 am
What a joke.

Think i am kinda done with this game.
Can you address what this was about? I think it was about the last minute voting but I'm still not sure.
No.

Why so serious? Can't answer simple questions? Can't explain your reasoning of your own words?
Scum.
No offense, but your scumhunting techniques could use some refinement.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 01:53:40 am
First off, I realized I finally had good material for a signature, so thank you TWM.

Faust...makes a really convincing argument. And if he's right, I've definitely got blood on my hands.

I'm personally not going to cast a vote yet, for a few reasons. One is to at least give Jake a chance to defend himself. More importantly, I want to know where everybody stands on Jake, since there are some people who haven't really committed one way or the other on him.

Right now, it doesn't look like anybody else has any chance of being lynched, so I'm going to exercise a little patience. I think at this point, the last 2 people voting doesn't really matter, it's a good opportunity for scum to bus. But I'd like to hear some more talking first.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 01:56:11 am
I think at this point, the last 2 people voting doesn't really matter, it's a good opportunity for scum to bus.

Should've added "If they haven't already"
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 10, 2017, 02:24:05 am
First off, I realized I finally had good material for a signature, so thank you TWM.
Using a quote from an ongoing game in your signature will sometimes be seen as violating the "don't talk about the game outside of the game thread" rule. I personally think it's bad practice.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 08:47:03 am
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
This is an interesting point. I too have a town read on Skumpy, so that really only leaves you as the question mark on this wagon. If you are both (you and Jake) scum, then now would be the opportune time to join, but I think you would find a better way of doing it that the above.

And, as you say, there was ample time for others to join the Jake wagon if he was town to cause a mislynch. Even if you or Skumpy are scum why weren't the other players joining to push it through? Lurking might be the most simple explanation, but is also the easiest to come up with.

If all Jake voters at this stage are town (which I am not fully comfortable with establishing yet, but I'll roll with it) then the following must have three scum: Datswan, RR, Andrew, chairs, raptor, Jake and Galz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 11:43:59 am
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
This is fairly convincing, giving that I have a slight town read on you and Skumpy, and I definitely want Jake to address this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:36:23 pm
Vote: jake
This seems fun and I might have to join you.

In other news, Galz has been saying over and over that 'it's not something scum would do.' This is obviously a terrible argument, because playing well as scum requires you doing things that people don't thinl scum would do. So why is his logic so bad? Either he's town or didn't plan this claim out very well. I don't know that much about Galz's playstyle but I'm pretty sure he's a vet, so I think he planned this out. I still don't want to give him townpoints for doing that though.
Why not give him scumpoints for it instead of no townpoints?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:40:49 pm
I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched
These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.
Agree Vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 12:44:38 pm
Excited
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:46:09 pm
Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

sigh. *If I ever am skum*. I'd like to think I can be crafty enough to make fake reads.


I'm not so sure how I feel anymore about a Jake lynch. He's not my number 1 suspect anymore, but his death maybe could help some regardless of how he reveals. Which is also a good reason to vote me, but let's not worry about that right now. I'm not going to help with a quicklynch, but I'm a willing voter if the deadline approaches.

XX, why did you vote Jake over me?

I guess I'm still just giving you space to see how you play, arguments were semi compelling in on D1 that you were town. You still throw me as odd but rather keep you around if you truly are town

Jake also jusy throws me as odd but he has yet to prove he's not scum to me in any way. Vote will likely change but I don't mind casting my vote towards him as now.
I'm not trying to prove I'm town I'm trying to find scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:47:32 pm
Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

Right but... how does that indicate one over the other ?

Unwillingness to swap from one person to the other? Although maybe I'm misreading and scum was trying to push a no lynch in the first place.
No one wants to abandon who they believe is scum in favor of a different lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:50:52 pm
Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.
I'd rather find a better lynch than defend myself.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:51:13 pm
Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.
I'd rather find a better lynch than defend myself.
On actual scum
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 12:55:18 pm
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
Only problem is that gkrieg later voted robz and robz didn't really have a choice of where to vote because it was me or him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 12:58:42 pm
Underwhelmed
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 01:03:07 pm
Reads so far

Scum
Skumpy
Galzria
X
Town
Teproc
TWM

Possible X's/ null
RR
Chairs
Andrew
Faust
Datswan
Xx
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 01:03:22 pm
Underwhelmed
Cool
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 01:06:49 pm
Hokay then.

Unrelated to Mafia or anything but Jake did I recommend Off Speed by Terry McDermott to you yet?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 01:07:03 pm
(It's a baseball book)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 01:10:57 pm
Hokay then.

Unrelated to Mafia or anything but Jake did I recommend Off Speed by Terry McDermott to you yet?
You did
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 01:20:41 pm
Cool.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 01:44:37 pm
So. Let's vote Jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 10, 2017, 01:50:14 pm
Don't have time right now, but I do not like the Jake lynch at all.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 01:52:20 pm
unvote for now then.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 02:04:04 pm
vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

DatSwan of all the new players is the one that strikes me as trying the least - and yes, he was VLA most of D1 but he's been back since. More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet. Skumpy is Skumpy. I find him townie overall but wouldn't be shocked if he flipped scum. XxRaptor DEFINITELY would've played the "hard-to-get involved" card a lot harder if he was scum (He had never heard of Mafia before I started talking about M100). And that leaves DatSwan, who has played Mafia both in an online format before as well as in person.

As for the others:
TWM comes of as FAR more reserved and less abrasive than he's been in every previous game I've seen him. He's always been town, which leads me to lean scum here.

Chairs hesitancy and phraseology reminds of Robz' "This day is insane" scum verbiage. I remember Chairs being a much louder player, and here it feels as if he's trying to skate by.

Andrew because I still hold that his D1 play was a potential scum tell
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 02:04:59 pm
Don't have time right now, but I do not like the Jake lynch at all.
Well that is lame.

I am not voting anywhere else. Just FYI.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 02:05:27 pm
Strike that.

vote: TWM
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 02:11:40 pm
Don't have time right now, but I do not like the Jake lynch at all.
Neither do I.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 02:16:41 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 02:19:42 pm
Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.
I agree with this but I don't really like that it's coming from someone who seems very frustrated/give up-y. I think you'd be better served gathering your thoughts and looking back at Jake to make a case for Teproc. I'm gonna do that anyway, but two is better than one.

In the meantime, Vote:Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 02:21:56 pm
I doubt that anything I present will cause Teproc to change his mind. It didn't yesterday and it hasn't today. And I have a hard time seeing a lynch occurring in this game without Teproc's blessing.

So, no. I am not going to put in effort on something that will not be used. I don't have time for that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 10, 2017, 02:23:56 pm
But then why would scum be trying to no lynch if they could just get a mislynch instead? I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Ok I missed a bunch of stuff yesterday so I'm catching up again. This^ however, I find very scummy. Holding off on a vote until I catch up completely. Also, as of the end of page 20 I'm not feeling a Jake Lynch simply b cause he's not contributing much. I'm not contributing much either, that doesn't make me scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 02:26:37 pm
Vote: Jake*
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 02:27:27 pm
put in effort
I haven't been doing too much of that and i'm almost done rereading him  :P not too much to go off of.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 02:28:51 pm
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 02:31:21 pm
Skumpy, Andrew, chairs are all townie, in descending order. That's a decent start for the game. And Teproc is an IC. We're starting to get some good PoE going here.
Awful.
Here are the first reads he expressed. None of these folks have flipped yet, so we can’t really gather much from it.

In other news, Andrew is in this game?

People should be able to get an alignment tell on skump from this I think. Get to work on that people.

I think skump is town. If he's scum, he would have run this "ask all the questions" plan by his scumbuddies, who very well may have thrown cold water on it.

Which player is IRL related to Galz? Also, why is there a wagon on Galz? I don't understand it.
Agree with the first part.
But in the post right after that, he agrees with the part that says ‘skumpy is town.’ So he flip flops in like 3 minutes.

I also think I should definitely get a D1 pass.
No.
I hate to say it, but when you’re a player of Faust’s caliber, you generally get a D1 pass regardless of whether you ask for them or not. All I see here is Jake being disagreeable.

Vote: Faust
Then he does this.

Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.
In case Jake goes for the OMGUS route against TWM, let’s not forget he said this.

I'll ask again: Is there a way to quote farther than 15 posts back that doesn't require copy/pasting from a second tab?

OK, TWM just read me like "Green Eggs & Ham", and is 100% correct. If he's not scum, then he's the best reader here from what I can tell. With regards to your eccentric, flamboyant, and excessive, I did post this early on:

if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).


so no disrespect perceived or taken.


Looking back in retrospect, there are a few ways people could've chosen to read me
a) They are actually Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, so vote me
b) Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, but leave me alone since they're not sure and I'm new
c) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, so vote me
d) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, but are incredibly confused by why I'm playing so awfully, so they leave me alone in order to gain townie credit later on after I'm a quick early lynch

I never expected e though: understand me better than I understand myself and give a perfect assessment. When I said I'm a bad liar before, I think I see why I believed (and still do) that to be the case: there's absolutely no way I could talk in the same manner as I am now if I was skum, even if I like to believe I could, and I really do think I would hush up a lot more. For the record, I may type in a way that attracts attention, as TWM points out, but trust me, I really hate attention. But I also hate empty words, which is why you won't see me making a whole lot of short posts, apologies to the impatient people amongst you.

I think the fact that I'm so...unconventional...is the reason why I suspect those whose who I agree with/agree with me, and trust those who suspect me.

And TWM, I can promise you won't be hanging your head in shame. I don't know if I can clear you just yet, a scum would know I'm town and would have an easier time figuring me out, but at the very least, you're getting a voting exemption from me for a while. I also hope I won't have to hang my head in shame.
This reads scummy to me. Vote: Skumpy
Changes his mind about Skumpy again but doesn’t say why.

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
TWM was a town read for Jake, now he’s null. More flip flopping.

Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.
I don't
You gotta expand on stuff, we can’t all see what you’re thinking (unless you’re doing that on purpose…)

That’s about it, aside from the fact that he seems to have forgotten how scummy Skumpy was yesterday (that reads list doesn’t count) and that Skumpy was getting pushed yesterday. Why throw your vote away with Galz rather than pursue Skumpy?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 02:31:37 pm
Come on, not the quote thing again.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 03:01:08 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 03:02:51 pm
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.
Good point. Maybe ash feels the way I am feeling when he self-votes? But I do remember the last time he self-voted wasn't ideal for me. Although it did help prevent a town lynch (Cuzz) and got scum lynched instead (schadd). So, I think I am good.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 03:03:12 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Man. Who cares? Right?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 03:05:16 pm
Changed my signature just for you faust  :P (sorry, but I had to).

Well, it looked like we were in for a peaceful, easy, day 2. Then all hell broke loose. I'm just about ready to start from scratch with reading. On the plus, it's nice to see everybody talking.

TWM reminds me a lot of, well, me. Things like voting for himself, saying Teproc's vote is deciding, really just playing the ethos game...I want to say that's stuff I'd do as scum, but maybe I would as town too? I don't know. But I would say this: if (and that's a big 'if') TWM is scum, I strongly suspect he's bussing Jake hard to gain trust. TWM hasn't been scum in so long (according to his signature) that now that he has experience, is it fair to say he's basically starting from scratch with scum? And I think he's somebody who would bus like mad. I know I would. And if he's town, he's made so many correct assessments that I have to trust him here. Virtual vote on Jake, will commit to the real thing later. Again, I like the talking, let's keep it going.


That’s about it, aside from the fact that he seems to have forgotten how scummy Skumpy was yesterday (that reads list doesn’t count) and that Skumpy was getting pushed yesterday. Why throw your vote away with Galz rather than pursue Skumpy?


Obviously, because everybody else here loves me.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 03:06:34 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Man. Who cares? Right?
I care
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 10, 2017, 03:10:09 pm
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.

^I agree with all this. Good work faust.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 03:15:21 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Man. Who cares? Right?
I care
Then you can illustrate your care by going to find the post. I do not, anymore. You can answer or not answer. If Teproc doesn't get in the way I will see you lynched or end up dead.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 10, 2017, 03:33:32 pm
link=topic=17401.msg711819#msg711819 date=1502389731]
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.
[/quote]

What is the context here?
It seems to me that TWM is just beating the bush skumhunting.

In other news...
Unvote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 03:38:46 pm
I think a mod would count you as voting me now.

Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 03:39:37 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Man. Who cares? Right?
I care
Then you can illustrate your care by going to find the post. I do not, anymore. You can answer or not answer. If Teproc doesn't get in the way I will see you lynched or end up dead.
If you don't care then why are you bringing it up?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 03:40:27 pm
link=topic=17401.msg711819#msg711819 date=1502389731]
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.

What is the context here?
It seems to me that TWM is just beating the bush skumhunting.

In other news...
Unvote: Galzria
[/quote]

The broken quote may cause that to be a TWM vote. If unintended, you should unvote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 10, 2017, 03:40:44 pm
You guys think TWM self-voting is scummier than Galz claiming VT? I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually. I could vote Galz or Jake, let's go with Galz for now.

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 03:43:41 pm
XX, DatSwan, Galzria: Lunchbreak?



Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 03:46:29 pm
A little confused as to why Andrew votes Galz over Jake when he says he likes faust's case. If you're not voting Jake, clearly there's something you don't like it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 03:48:48 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
What questions are you talking about?
Man. Who cares? Right?
I care
Then you can illustrate your care by going to find the post. I do not, anymore. You can answer or not answer. If Teproc doesn't get in the way I will see you lynched or end up dead.
If you don't care then why are you bringing it up?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Haha.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 03:59:22 pm
Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.

I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually.

Weird that they would have a town read chain going...

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 04:00:34 pm

About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Not an official votecount persay, but here's the current state of the Jake wagon, including dead dudes

For(6): TWM, Skumpy, Faust, RR, Andrew, XX (Also posthumous honors for Robz, gkrieg, may they rest in peace)
Against(3): TEPROC, Galzria, Jake (surprise!)

Other:
Chairs (voted quick, backed off when Teproc disapproved)
Datswan (hasn't weighed in yet)

I'm not sure how much there is to take away from the wagon - I think regardless of alignment, it's easy for scum to be on or off the wagon. But we definitely have the numbers to get a lynch if we want. I'm going to give myself at least another 24 hours before I cast my vote.

I do think Jake and I just have very contrasting styles, and I'm a lot more likely to make a false accusation than I would for other people (except Robz apparently), but again, there's nothing suggesting to me that he is town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 10, 2017, 04:02:11 pm
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Not an official votecount persay, but here's the current state of the Jake wagon, including dead dudes

For(6): TWM, Skumpy, Faust, RR, Andrew, XX (Also posthumous honors for Robz, gkrieg, may they rest in peace)
Against(3): TEPROC, Galzria, Jake (surprise!)

Other:
Chairs (voted quick, backed off when Teproc disapproved)
Datswan (hasn't weighed in yet)

I'm not sure how much there is to take away from the wagon - I think regardless of alignment, it's easy for scum to be on or off the wagon. But we definitely have the numbers to get a lynch if we want. I'm going to give myself at least another 24 hours before I cast my vote.

I do think Jake and I just have very contrasting styles, and I'm a lot more likely to make a false accusation on him than I would for other people (except Robz apparently), but again, there's nothing suggesting to me that he is town.



That was going to happen at some point...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 10, 2017, 04:12:48 pm
D2 reads

Scum
Skumpy -he just still comes off as odd to me from D1. 
DatSwan- Similar reasons as Galz. I thought he would be more active and aggressive. seems to be flying under the radar
TWM- I dont understand his attitude
Jake?? - No defense from from his wagon is a bold move.

Town
Galz
Andrew
RR
Chairs
Teproc
Fraust

* all seem if have sound reasoning behind votes do not come if as suspicious atm.

I will try to contribute more to convos, sorry for lurking
 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 04:16:11 pm
Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.

Also, that reads a LOT like a "Good job buddy" post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 04:17:42 pm
Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.

Also, that reads a LOT like a "Good job buddy" post.
It is.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 10, 2017, 04:28:50 pm
Can I request a vote count please?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 05:29:57 pm
Quote
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.

What is the context here?
It seems to me that TWM is just beating the bush skumhunting.

In other news...
Unvote: Galzria

Fixed the
Quote
brackets on this for the response.

The context here is that ashersky tends to self-vote in games (and it tends to be a sort of "I'm Town" signal that he has difficulty replicating as scum).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 10, 2017, 05:30:08 pm
A little confused as to why Andrew votes Galz over Jake when he says he likes faust's case. If you're not voting Jake, clearly there's something you don't like it.

My only hesitation is Jake is doing anything I wouldn't expect Jake to do. Galz's VT claim on the other hand is silly and weird and I think scum!Galz could just be trying to throw us off.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 10, 2017, 05:30:21 pm
ROFL. Fixed one set of brackets, only to break them xD
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 10, 2017, 05:30:44 pm
I meant Jake is NOT doing anything I wouldn't expect Jake to do.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 10, 2017, 06:26:52 pm
Vote Count 2.2

Galzria (3): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Roadrunner7671
DatSwan (1): Galzria
The_Wine_Merchant (2): The_Wine_Merchant, chairs

Not voting (3): Skumpy, Teproc, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 10, 2017, 06:54:30 pm
vote: TWM
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 07:03:04 pm
vote: TWM
Haha. Or not.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 07:28:14 pm
vote: TWM
Haha. Or not.

Hmm
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 07:45:19 pm
Are your Galzy senses tingling?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 07:49:23 pm
Are your Galzy senses tingling?

Hard to say.  One calls X out, then X changes to Y... is Y different because one called X out, or was Y always different?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 10, 2017, 08:31:13 pm
Vote: TWM

I don't understand your angle. Maybe taking the heat off jake? 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 08:42:38 pm
link=topic=17401.msg711819#msg711819 date=1502389731]
Strike that.

vote: TWM

vote: TWM

You're not ashersky.

What is the context here?
It seems to me that TWM is just beating the bush skumhunting.

In other news...
Unvote: Galzria

The broken quote may cause that to be a TWM vote. If unintended, you should unvote.
[/quote]
That's what I was gonna say! TWM was like 'he's towny because he didn't jump on my wagon' and I was gonna be like 'uh, I think he did.'
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 10, 2017, 08:42:55 pm
All the quotes are breaking!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 09:09:50 pm
Vote: TWM

I don't understand your angle. Maybe taking the heat off jake?
I don't have an angle. And the heat that I created on Jake? You sound like you already know jake is scum. If anyone took heat of jake it was teproc.

Check this out roc. Seriously.

vote: jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 09:39:55 pm
Ehhh....

TWM has moved down my "want to lynch" list for now I think. I'm not convinced he's not scum... but i'm even less convinced scum!TWM sells himself this hard to get Jake lynched. If Jake is town TWM isn't fucked... but damn that's pretty awful. And if Jake is scum... Well, MAYBE this makes sense as partners... but it feels highly unnecessary.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 10, 2017, 10:23:54 pm
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 10, 2017, 10:26:32 pm
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?

Nope, just you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 10, 2017, 10:37:45 pm
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?
I feel like TWM is town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 10, 2017, 10:49:16 pm
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?
Team town! (I hope)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 01:55:33 am
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
Only problem is that gkrieg later voted robz and robz didn't really have a choice of where to vote because it was me or him.
It wasn't at the time he first placed his vote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 01:56:59 am
More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet.
Why would this be something scum does?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 01:58:09 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 02:02:29 am
More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet.
Why would this be something scum does?

What? It's been done in countless games before. Are you intentionally asking ignorant questions? Why would scum coach to lurk...? LOL
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 02:03:49 am
A little confused as to why Andrew votes Galz over Jake when he says he likes faust's case. If you're not voting Jake, clearly there's something you don't like it.

My only hesitation is Jake is doing anything I wouldn't expect Jake to do. Galz's VT claim on the other hand is silly and weird and I think scum!Galz could just be trying to throw us off.
I just disagree with basically everything Galzria says. But it may just be that way; I mean, I feel the same about Teproc, and the guy confirmed town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 02:06:18 am
More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet.
Why would this be something scum does?

What? It's been done in countless games before. Are you intentionally asking ignorant questions? Why would scum coach to lurk...? LOL
Yes, that is what I am asking. Instead of trying to ridicule me, you could just try to answer my questions for a change. It might help keep this civil, unless it is your plan to intentionally rile people up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 02:09:29 am
More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet.
Why would this be something scum does?

What? It's been done in countless games before. Are you intentionally asking ignorant questions? Why would scum coach to lurk...? LOL
Yes, that is what I am asking. Instead of trying to ridicule me, you could just try to answer my questions for a change. It might help keep this civil, unless it is your plan to intentionally rile people up.

I just... sorry. I don't understand. You're both smarter than your question leads to believe, and you've been around long enough to know the answer already... so coming from you feels intentionally ignorant - and I don't mean that uncivillaly (not actually a word)... just that your question feels forced to feign ignorance as to why scum might do that. From Skumpy, or DatSwan, or XxRaptor, sure. But not you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 02:20:57 am
Still no answer...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 02:33:03 am
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?

Yes.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 02:34:05 am
Well I do think TWM is acting towny, but if Galz flips scum I'll be looking at TWM.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 02:34:20 am
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?

Nope, just you.

So scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 02:42:19 am
Still no answer...

Actually, I did answer. The first time. You just choose to ignore it. But fine, let me spell it out for you in more detail:

A) It's far easier to slip up when talking than when not.
B) f.ds doesn't usually actually lynch lurkers.
C) Playing quiet as newbie scum has been a tried and proven method

Would you like more?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 02:47:02 am
Well I do think TWM is acting towny, but if Galz flips scum I'll be looking at TWM.

I won't flip scum. But you know that already.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 02:48:02 am
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?

Yes.

News at 11! Andrew and DatSwan match reads!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:06:16 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 03:23:35 am
Still no answer...

Actually, I did answer. The first time. You just choose to ignore it. But fine, let me spell it out for you in more detail:

A) It's far easier to slip up when talking than when not.
B) f.ds doesn't usually actually lynch lurkers.
C) Playing quiet as newbie scum has been a tried and proven method

Would you like more?
Well, I disagree and would never advise a partner like that, but I guess it's not necessary for us to agree on this particular topic.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 03:24:44 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:27:03 am
Still no answer...

Actually, I did answer. The first time. You just choose to ignore it. But fine, let me spell it out for you in more detail:

A) It's far easier to slip up when talking than when not.
B) f.ds doesn't usually actually lynch lurkers.
C) Playing quiet as newbie scum has been a tried and proven method

Would you like more?
Well, I disagree and would never advise a partner like that, but I guess it's not necessary for us to agree on this particular topic.

No, it's not. But I'm curious which of the 3 points you disagree with (not why you think it's good vs bad) - which is what you stated.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:30:04 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 03:32:37 am
Still no answer...

Actually, I did answer. The first time. You just choose to ignore it. But fine, let me spell it out for you in more detail:

A) It's far easier to slip up when talking than when not.
B) f.ds doesn't usually actually lynch lurkers.
C) Playing quiet as newbie scum has been a tried and proven method

Would you like more?
Well, I disagree and would never advise a partner like that, but I guess it's not necessary for us to agree on this particular topic.

No, it's not. But I'm curious which of the 3 points you disagree with (not why you think it's good vs bad) - which is what you stated.

All, more or less.

A) I don't think slip ups are a thing that happens on a statistically significant level.
B) It's true that we lynch them less than we should, but especially on later days lurkers usually have a hard time unless other crazy stuff happens.
C) I think experience shows that active scum newbies do better than lurky ones.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 03:33:39 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:59:03 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)

The emphasis there should have been made clear by my point, but as it seems not to have been: I believe you've tried to paint this claim as "premature" and thus scummy by comparing it to M100 when I, in your words, "have a history of premature claims as scum".- but that's not true. My claim timing as scum was impeccable, and won my faction the game. I hope to do the same for town here (and only time will tell) - but your characterization is falsely stated to make me appear scummy for reasons that don't match up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 11, 2017, 04:34:00 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)

The emphasis there should have been made clear by my point, but as it seems not to have been: I believe you've tried to paint this claim as "premature" and thus scummy by comparing it to M100 when I, in your words, "have a history of premature claims as scum".- but that's not true. My claim timing as scum was impeccable, and won my faction the game. I hope to do the same for town here (and only time will tell) - but your characterization is falsely stated to make me appear scummy for reasons that don't match up.
Yes, your claim timing as scum was good. Had you been town that game, it would have been premature. That is exactly the point I am making.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 04:36:55 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)

The emphasis there should have been made clear by my point, but as it seems not to have been: I believe you've tried to paint this claim as "premature" and thus scummy by comparing it to M100 when I, in your words, "have a history of premature claims as scum".- but that's not true. My claim timing as scum was impeccable, and won my faction the game. I hope to do the same for town here (and only time will tell) - but your characterization is falsely stated to make me appear scummy for reasons that don't match up.
Yes, your claim timing as scum was good. Had you been town that game, it would have been premature. That is exactly the point I am making.

Ah, well, yes. In that game, had I been town, I agree. But I disagree with that intent being what you stated before. With that correction, I have no disagreement.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 04:51:59 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass?

I don't regulate people's play through lynches, I try to catch scum. I  do not think Jake is scum.

Let's try and remember how Jake played in Fleetwood Mac. Oh, exactly in the same way, as town ! I think it's clear that what you're talking about is not alignment-indicative for Jake. Meanwhile, I think the way the end of D1 went (+ the NK) is indicative of both main wagons being town.

I doubt that anything I present will cause Teproc to change his mind. It didn't yesterday and it hasn't today. And I have a hard time seeing a lynch occurring in this game without Teproc's blessing.

So, no. I am not going to put in effort on something that will not be used. I don't have time for that.

You haven't really been trying to change my mind, or yours. You decided Jake was scum somewhere in D1, was pissed when things didn't go your way and then stopped playing. Maybe if you do try you might convince me. If you're town, what you've been doing ever since D1 twilight has not been helping. You didn't like the D1 lynch, deal with it.

More importantly: I sure hope lynches can happen without my "blessing", because I'm the least informed player in the game. I have worse odds of catching scum than literally anyone else. I still decided to express my opinion because I do think Jake is town and we seemed to be heading that way, and even as an IC I don't think sitting by while what I think are mislynches happen is good play, but by no means should people take my opinion as gospel. THey know it truly is my opinjion, but that doesn't make it right.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 04:55:35 am
Now I do think Jake should put in more of an effort. You mentioned at some point that you didn't want to defend yourself, that you preferred to scumhunt: I absolutely agree with that attitude... but without looking it up, I have no idea who you think scum is. This is a sign you probably haven't been making a strong case.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 04:55:54 am
The above is adressed at Jake, in case it was unclear.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 11, 2017, 05:32:49 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.

M/100-- Galz + Early claim = scum
M/105-- Galz + Early claim = ? ? ?

I find you claiming early a strange move. Obviously more valuables than shown. But you could be trying to recreate a move from a previous game. I think you are smarter then that. But why did you claim unprovoked what so ever?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 05:46:52 am
And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.

M/100-- Galz + Early claim = scum
M/105-- Galz + Early claim = ? ? ?

I find you claiming early a strange move. Obviously more valuables than shown. But you could be trying to recreate a move from a previous game. I think you are smarter then that. But why did you claim unprovoked what so ever?

Timing is not an alignment indicative tell. I claimed when I did, as I did, to get the most value from the claim. Value is of course perceived - but I felt that such claim at a later time would carry less value. Value is also not one dimensional however, and my claim may have other implications down the road. This was not - is not - lost on me. And yet I still believe the value in timing was most advantageous for town to make that claim when I did.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 08:29:24 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 11, 2017, 09:15:07 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.

 ??? 8) ::)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 09:19:52 am
vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 11:29:57 am
Now I do think Jake should put in more of an effort. You mentioned at some point that you didn't want to defend yourself, that you preferred to scumhunt: I absolutely agree with that attitude... but without looking it up, I have no idea who you think scum is. This is a sign you probably haven't been making a strong case.

Reads so far

Scum
Skumpy
Galzria
X
Town
Teproc
TWM

Possible X's/ null
RR
Chairs
Andrew
Faust
Datswan
Xx
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 12:01:14 pm
Well I do think TWM is acting towny, but if Galz flips scum I'll be looking at TWM.

I won't flip scum. But you know that already.

Pro scumhunting brah!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 12:05:42 pm
A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 11, 2017, 12:16:52 pm
I wouldn't put anything past Galz, regardless of alignment. He's spent too much time with Robz and ash.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 01:43:40 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass?

I don't regulate people's play through lynches, I try to catch scum. I  do not think Jake is scum.

Let's try and remember how Jake played in Fleetwood Mac. Oh, exactly in the same way, as town ! I think it's clear that what you're talking about is not alignment-indicative for Jake. Meanwhile, I think the way the end of D1 went (+ the NK) is indicative of both main wagons being town.

I am not regulating Jake's play through a lynch. I legitimately think he is scum. And if he isn't, he is a better lynch than another random townie at this point, but that certainly isn't a significant reason for why I am voting for him.

I disagree with your assessment Jake's play versus other games. I also don't take that into as much consideration as you do, I think, but I'll go ahead and show you what I mean.

Here are some prototypical posts from Jake's game today. Actually let's just do a random sampling. Promise this is random. out of 37 posts, let's pull 5.

21 (actually rolled 21 twice), 36, 29, 15, 13. Now putting them in order:

#13
I'll ask again: Is there a way to quote farther than 15 posts back that doesn't require copy/pasting from a second tab?

OK, TWM just read me like "Green Eggs & Ham", and is 100% correct. If he's not scum, then he's the best reader here from what I can tell. With regards to your eccentric, flamboyant, and excessive, I did post this early on:

if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).


so no disrespect perceived or taken.


Looking back in retrospect, there are a few ways people could've chosen to read me
a) They are actually Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, so vote me
b) Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, but leave me alone since they're not sure and I'm new
c) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, so vote me
d) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, but are incredibly confused by why I'm playing so awfully, so they leave me alone in order to gain townie credit later on after I'm a quick early lynch

I never expected e though: understand me better than I understand myself and give a perfect assessment. When I said I'm a bad liar before, I think I see why I believed (and still do) that to be the case: there's absolutely no way I could talk in the same manner as I am now if I was skum, even if I like to believe I could, and I really do think I would hush up a lot more. For the record, I may type in a way that attracts attention, as TWM points out, but trust me, I really hate attention. But I also hate empty words, which is why you won't see me making a whole lot of short posts, apologies to the impatient people amongst you.

I think the fact that I'm so...unconventional...is the reason why I suspect those whose who I agree with/agree with me, and trust those who suspect me.

And TWM, I can promise you won't be hanging your head in shame. I don't know if I can clear you just yet, a scum would know I'm town and would have an easier time figuring me out, but at the very least, you're getting a voting exemption from me for a while. I also hope I won't have to hang my head in shame.
This reads scummy to me. Vote: Skumpy
#15
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
#21
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC
Why
#29
Reads so far

Scum
Skumpy
Galzria
X
Town
Teproc
TWM

Possible X's/ null
RR
Chairs
Andrew
Faust
Datswan
Xx
#36
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?
I feel like TWM is town.
I feel like this is pretty representative of Jake. One word answers. When he does talk it is short, simple, and frankly very mild mannered. He is keeping his cool, staying away from arguments, deliberately ignoring things people ask him. Isn't really doing much of anything.

Compare to M103 for your sake.

Taking 5 random posts from first two days. Out of 79 posts. 38, 15, 42, 43, 59

#15
Sometimes, Jake is actually scum.

Joseph is town I think. Who else can I vote for?

Vote: RR how's that?
I don't like this post. His reasons for finding Joseph towny seem forced. I also don't like the amount of content posts to joke posts from faust.
There are no reasons in this post.
Those are all reasons to me.
No I mean there are no reasons in the post from me that you quoted.
There were other posts where you stated your reasons and I didn't like them.
#38
Unvote
Why did Jake just unvote after two people joined the wagon he was on?
Because faust was scummy early but he looks much less scummy now.
#42
We have four things from J Reggie.  First, the plan:

Tell us your plan!

Why thank you.

I think we should start off D1 with a mass claim. We have a good chance to catch at least one scum here without losing any key PRs. Here's the catch though: it only works if everyone does it. And I mean everyone.

I'll start. I'm a VT.

Then the Joseph vote

vote: j Reggie for role fishing, trying to out all our PRs.
The setup says we don't have any PRs? 8VT vs 3 mafia vs 2 werewolves

This isn't likely to be warning a partner, since mafia have day chat and werewolves only have one partner. But

I claim TV.
Obv!fakeclaim. Vote: ii

This is unannounced L-2.
vote: Joseph

Then the faust vote

Oh the sheepage. But it's actually a reasonable wagon this time. vote: Faust

and the gkrieg case

Also I just realized that everyone should be scum hunting in this game, which is kinda interesting.

This is the type of post scum makes to make you think they have a town mindset. Like a pseudo-faked-townslip.

He then votes for gkrieg in his next post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17339.msg704669#msg704669).  And that's really it.  Nothing here feels like town!Reggie to me.  It feels like J Reggie, when he is active, is doing everything he can to appear townie without actually being townie.
So basically everything he's done is scummy.
#43
We have 3 wagons right now.

faust - would lynch, but really don't prefer to

RR - don't really want to lynch

J Reggie - want to lynch, best option of the three
Or option 4: you Vote: 2.71
#59
Just saying I protest this "apparent" lynch
Again, reading through the actual game. This is pretty representative of Jake. Much more confontational. Votes flying around more. More aggressive and assertive, tone is different. Answers questions put to him. Taking stances.

In posts not listed here, he actually goes after people that were voting for him. OMGUSing and such. Now, I'll will admit that I was wrong about Jake in M103. There I argued that he was "very interested in himself" and he was. I felt that could be a scummy trait. But if it is a Jake-trait. He isn't doing it here.

So. There you go.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 01:45:31 pm
A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?
Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 01:48:19 pm
Meanwhile, I think the way the end of D1 went (+ the NK) is indicative of both main wagons being town.
On this point, I don't see it that way. Can you explain? Do you want to explain?

As for my comments about a lynch going through without your blessing, that wasn't intended to be a comment against you. It was more that I doubt town in its current state will be able to come to a consensus without someone herding them along. It barely happened Day1 with your help, so I am not optimist that it will occur without it today.

Jake looked like a good chance that it would. We had a good consensus and I feel it was a good wagon. I am skeptical we will be able to get a good wagon today with the way this game is going.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 02:54:25 pm
I don't really see a difference between what you quoted from each game... he's perhaps less agressive in this game, but that's about it. I need to take a look at a Jake scum game actually.

My point about the way the wagons went is ... not as valid as I thought now that I'm typing it up, so forget about that. I do think the gkrieg NK is relevant though, in that gkrieg would look very, very partner-y with Jake if Jake was to ever flip, and with jake being a frequent lynch candidate, I think scum would have wanted to keep him around... unless they really thought he was a PR, and I didn't see much there when rereading gkrieg.

I guess the feeling I had late day 1 and I still have now is that scum is lurking, and more than that: that they're under the radar, never got a wagon on them. Maybe not the whole scumteam, but I'd expect two of them to be low-content players... which I guess is statistically pretty likely just on its face, but oh well. I just felt such a total lack of urgency late in day 1 and I don't think that would have happened had one of the wagons been on scum. The fact that one of the two decisive players in making the Robz lynch happen died solidified that feeling for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 02:55:45 pm
Sorry for the harsh words before, glad you're back to being constructive (regardless of your alignment really).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 03:00:18 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass?

I don't regulate people's play through lynches, I try to catch scum. I  do not think Jake is scum.

Let's try and remember how Jake played in Fleetwood Mac. Oh, exactly in the same way, as town ! I think it's clear that what you're talking about is not alignment-indicative for Jake. Meanwhile, I think the way the end of D1 went (+ the NK) is indicative of both main wagons being town.

I am not regulating Jake's play through a lynch. I legitimately think he is scum. And if he isn't, he is a better lynch than another random townie at this point, but that certainly isn't a significant reason for why I am voting for him.

I disagree with your assessment Jake's play versus other games. I also don't take that into as much consideration as you do, I think, but I'll go ahead and show you what I mean.

Here are some prototypical posts from Jake's game today. Actually let's just do a random sampling. Promise this is random. out of 37 posts, let's pull 5.

21 (actually rolled 21 twice), 36, 29, 15, 13. Now putting them in order:

#13
I'll ask again: Is there a way to quote farther than 15 posts back that doesn't require copy/pasting from a second tab?

OK, TWM just read me like "Green Eggs & Ham", and is 100% correct. If he's not scum, then he's the best reader here from what I can tell. With regards to your eccentric, flamboyant, and excessive, I did post this early on:

if I was scum and reading that, I would think the weird new guy has a mental deficiency (which is probably true honestly).


so no disrespect perceived or taken.


Looking back in retrospect, there are a few ways people could've chosen to read me
a) They are actually Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, so vote me
b) Town, think I'm playing very un-townlike, but leave me alone since they're not sure and I'm new
c) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, so vote me
d) Scum, realize I'm an easy target, but are incredibly confused by why I'm playing so awfully, so they leave me alone in order to gain townie credit later on after I'm a quick early lynch

I never expected e though: understand me better than I understand myself and give a perfect assessment. When I said I'm a bad liar before, I think I see why I believed (and still do) that to be the case: there's absolutely no way I could talk in the same manner as I am now if I was skum, even if I like to believe I could, and I really do think I would hush up a lot more. For the record, I may type in a way that attracts attention, as TWM points out, but trust me, I really hate attention. But I also hate empty words, which is why you won't see me making a whole lot of short posts, apologies to the impatient people amongst you.

I think the fact that I'm so...unconventional...is the reason why I suspect those whose who I agree with/agree with me, and trust those who suspect me.

And TWM, I can promise you won't be hanging your head in shame. I don't know if I can clear you just yet, a scum would know I'm town and would have an easier time figuring me out, but at the very least, you're getting a voting exemption from me for a while. I also hope I won't have to hang my head in shame.
This reads scummy to me. Vote: Skumpy
#15
Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2
He's null to me this game so far which is slightly wierd because I usually have a very strong read on him one way or another.
#21
regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC
Why
#29
Reads so far

Scum
Skumpy
Galzria
X
Town
Teproc
TWM

Possible X's/ null
RR
Chairs
Andrew
Faust
Datswan
Xx
#36
Anyone else feel like Galz and TWM are teamed?
I feel like TWM is town.
I feel like this is pretty representative of Jake. One word answers. When he does talk it is short, simple, and frankly very mild mannered. He is keeping his cool, staying away from arguments, deliberately ignoring things people ask him. Isn't really doing much of anything.

Compare to M103 for your sake.

Taking 5 random posts from first two days. Out of 79 posts. 38, 15, 42, 43, 59

#15
Sometimes, Jake is actually scum.

Joseph is town I think. Who else can I vote for?

Vote: RR how's that?
I don't like this post. His reasons for finding Joseph towny seem forced. I also don't like the amount of content posts to joke posts from faust.
There are no reasons in this post.
Those are all reasons to me.
No I mean there are no reasons in the post from me that you quoted.
There were other posts where you stated your reasons and I didn't like them.
#38
Unvote
Why did Jake just unvote after two people joined the wagon he was on?
Because faust was scummy early but he looks much less scummy now.
#42
We have four things from J Reggie.  First, the plan:

Tell us your plan!

Why thank you.

I think we should start off D1 with a mass claim. We have a good chance to catch at least one scum here without losing any key PRs. Here's the catch though: it only works if everyone does it. And I mean everyone.

I'll start. I'm a VT.

Then the Joseph vote

vote: j Reggie for role fishing, trying to out all our PRs.
The setup says we don't have any PRs? 8VT vs 3 mafia vs 2 werewolves

This isn't likely to be warning a partner, since mafia have day chat and werewolves only have one partner. But

I claim TV.
Obv!fakeclaim. Vote: ii

This is unannounced L-2.
vote: Joseph

Then the faust vote

Oh the sheepage. But it's actually a reasonable wagon this time. vote: Faust

and the gkrieg case

Also I just realized that everyone should be scum hunting in this game, which is kinda interesting.

This is the type of post scum makes to make you think they have a town mindset. Like a pseudo-faked-townslip.

He then votes for gkrieg in his next post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17339.msg704669#msg704669).  And that's really it.  Nothing here feels like town!Reggie to me.  It feels like J Reggie, when he is active, is doing everything he can to appear townie without actually being townie.
So basically everything he's done is scummy.
#43
We have 3 wagons right now.

faust - would lynch, but really don't prefer to

RR - don't really want to lynch

J Reggie - want to lynch, best option of the three
Or option 4: you Vote: 2.71
#59
Just saying I protest this "apparent" lynch
Again, reading through the actual game. This is pretty representative of Jake. Much more confontational. Votes flying around more. More aggressive and assertive, tone is different. Answers questions put to him. Taking stances.

In posts not listed here, he actually goes after people that were voting for him. OMGUSing and such. Now, I'll will admit that I was wrong about Jake in M103. There I argued that he was "very interested in himself" and he was. I felt that could be a scummy trait. But if it is a Jake-trait. He isn't doing it here.

So. There you go.
TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 11, 2017, 03:38:40 pm
OK so here is the thing - I am VT. I don't really see the point in saying it because obv everyone is going to make there own decisions, but there it is. I had to look up what "lurking" meant lol.
If it has come off as such to anyone, I would like to say my reasoning behind being subtle so far is only because of my inexperience in the game. Watching and reading and gathering is pretty much all I have been able to maintain, and even then I find it overwhelming (fun, but still a lot).

I am still fine tuning this weird situation where I want to point out "skummy" behavior without making it seem like I am in fact skum. Not because I care if I get lynched because if we win as town we win as town, whatever... but because I want the points to be taken into good consideration.

Galzria could go either way. He is a random dude from what I am reading. I would note he seems to be making certain topics focus on things that he wants to talk about, and ignoring the others, which is skummy, but all in all whatever.

TWM says he doesn't care and doesn't want to put in time and etc, but then types up novels... weird.

I think that Xx is skum. I have no reasoning for it other then what I am perceiving from convos. It would seem to me that as he introduced himself as new in the beginning it would be an easy play to have a vet coach him to be a slow player and manipulate the conversations to their advantage.

That's my 2 cents.

Unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:49:11 pm
Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 11, 2017, 03:50:31 pm
Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 03:57:06 pm
Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 11, 2017, 04:12:51 pm
I guess I should have taken the precaution to note that

VT CLAIMING IS BAD, PEOPLE

DatSwan is excused for being new, and Galz is doing whatever Galz is doing for whatever reasons I disagree with, but please, do not claim VT willy nilly, all you're doing is making PRs easier to kill.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 11, 2017, 04:23:40 pm
I guess I should have taken the precaution to note that

VT CLAIMING IS BAD, PEOPLE

DatSwan is excused for being new, and Galz is doing whatever Galz is doing for whatever reasons I disagree with, but please, do not claim VT willy nilly, all you're doing is making PRs easier to kill.

IKR.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 11, 2017, 04:32:04 pm
Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

If my interaction on D1 does not make me more or less likely to be skum then why feel the need to point out I was not voting at the end of D1? Again, and again, it just feels like you trying to take the heat off yourself and have people look elsewhere instead.

Also, not randomly claiming VT. I am new, but you kind of forced my hand into an explanation...IC.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 04:45:40 pm
Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

I feel like elaborating on this a little more:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

IF: Jake is Scum

THEN: I doubt scum were bussing. There really wasn't much need. Town was sluggish and crawling there and without them on Jake's wagon Robz would've been just as likely (or anybody really) to be the lynch candidate (or no lynch). We were 8 hours to deadline so "playing off wagon" (especially off a scum partner wagon) is the far safer play.

That casts shade on Roadrunner, Chairs, Raptor, DatSwan and Andrew (and me). Roadrunner, Andrew and DatSwan were off both Jake and Robz - with Andrew being by far the most active player amongst them not to be on a major wagon approaching (or ultimately at) deadline.

If Jake is Scum, I expect one of {Chairs, XxRaptor} and one of {DatSwan, Roadrunner, Andrew} to be his partner. -- That said, if scum WAS bussing him to this point it was Skumpy, who along with Gkrieg switched to make the Robz lynch happen.

-----

IF: Jake is Town

THEN: Scum had two town wagons going, and an approaching deadline in a crawling game. They had absolutely no reason to push anything, and knew both Robz/Jake would flip town. This is where I think we stand. With a slow paced game up to this point, and town  players generally split over two town wagons, scum didn't have reason to help us push a lynch.

Because of this, I don't find Skumpy scummy - he switched to make a lynch happen when - if he was scum and Jake town - he had no reason to. Notably the other player this would apply to is Gkrieg, who was in fact town.

With this belief, scum could be anywhere. On either wagon, or off either wagon. But I don't see that it's likely that all 3 were on both wagons and yet we still struggled to get a lynch through. Hence my strong belief that there is at least one scum amongst {DatSwan, Andrew}.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 05:01:14 pm
TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.
OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg710954#msg710954) here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711714#msg711714), here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here (http://=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739) not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 05:02:45 pm
Man. I thought I had it all formatted correctly. I think the links are correct though. Nope third link is bad. Here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 11, 2017, 05:03:32 pm
I mean, cruise control for cool etc.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 05:14:06 pm
Fine.

vote: XXraptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 11, 2017, 05:21:00 pm
I binged a season of The Mole the last couple days; against my hopes, it has not improved my scum hunting whatsoever.

Sorry I've been unnaturally quiet for Skumpy the last day or so. Like DatSwan, I feel it's been a lot more overwhelming day 2. Sadly, whenever I'm starting to suspect somebody of being scum, they say something and I'm gullible so I'm instantly convinced.

I still can't vote for TWM. If he's scum, he's playing such a damn good long con and there's no way he's worth a vote at this point in time. Maybe I should reread him - then again, maybe should I reread everybody.

Like some others here, I'm going to try and focus on the voting so far to find a pattern. The one big problem with Galzria's thinking is that so many people were VLA. DatSwan and faust were confirmed VLA, they had mentioned it several days in advance. Andrew and Chairs had unexpected complications, RR and Jake were occasional posters. It makes it tough.

I've been trying to get a good picture of the whole thing, but I really don't have the time right to now to say everything I want to. I'll work on it in a few hours where the Newbie will get a chance to prove they're a master of mafia. I'll be around reading and maybe making some short posts, but no voting from me for a little bit.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 11, 2017, 05:27:39 pm
Fine.

vote: XXraptor

Sure why not.

vote: XXraptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 05:33:22 pm
Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

If my interaction on D1 does not make me more or less likely to be skum then why feel the need to point out I was not voting at the end of D1? Again, and again, it just feels like you trying to take the heat off yourself and have people look elsewhere instead.

Also, not randomly claiming VT. I am new, but you kind of forced my hand into an explanation...IC.

As noted in my below post - because if you're town then either:

A) Andrew is the scum not voting either wagon at day's end (possible)

Or

B) Andrew is town as well and all 3 scum were voting on the two wagons.

Now, it's interesting to note that if Jake is scum he knew Robz was town and was intentionally nor voting him to appear off the wagon of a town flip. That IS more likely than town Jake voting off wagon of an unknown alignment player when the lynch was between them.

So that DOES cast a serious amount of suspicion back on Jake. But then for you and Andrew to both be town, again, all 3 scum would need to have been voting. This would implicate a Jake/Skumpy/X (not Xx, just X) team... With Skumpy already moving to derail the Jake lynch by going to Robz' wagon though, and Jake already intentionally placed off... I just don't see the missing scum as being likely on Robz wagon as well - unless they were there early. That would be {Chairs, Raptor, Galzria} to everybody.

But I still find myself finding 'X' here more likely to be off the Robz wagon, which brings me back to you and Andrew.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 05:34:24 pm
Sorry,  the "below" post mentioned above was the one posted after DatSwan's linked post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 05:43:27 pm
Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 06:03:57 pm
Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

You are absolutely correct that Raptor's vote was far worse here. Anytime a vote is cast without reasoning behind it it's bad (ok, {exceptions, reasons}).

But let's assume Raptor IS scum for a moment as it's his bad vote in question:

- 8 hours (give or take) to deadline.
- Jake is at 5 votes
- Robz is at 2
- Nobody else is on radar.
- Scum!Raptor knows the alignment of both Jake & Robz

Questions:
- Does Jake's alignment matter here? If yes, how? Certainly if he's scum this vote makes sense from scum!Raptor. What if Jake is Town?
- Does scum, even newbie scum, place that vote with literally 0 justification? Do they not at least try to seem townie by doing it?
- If XxRaptor is scum, and Jake is scum, do you believe the third scum was also voting Robz, left bussing Jake, or not voting?
- If XxRaptor is scum and Jake is Town, do you believe all three scum were on Robz/Jake wagons? Why was the lynch so difficult to get through? If they're not all on the wagons, then one of {Andrew, DatSwan} would be scum, correct?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 06:36:13 pm
TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.
OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg710954#msg710954) here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711714#msg711714), here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here (http://=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739) not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!
I said that I wan't going to defend myself, I didn't dodge you asking me to show why I'm town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 06:37:37 pm
Er
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 06:41:00 pm
Er
?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 06:41:24 pm
I don't think you get it. I am not accepting "I am not answering that" as an answer.

You saying that you aren't answering doesn't cut it for me. So I get to keep saying you aren't answering and subsequently voting until you do. And honestly I probably still will even if you did. Hence why I say I don't care anymore.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 06:42:13 pm
In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 06:43:40 pm
TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.
OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg710954#msg710954) here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711714#msg711714), here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here (http://=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739) not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!
I said that I wan't going to defend myself, I didn't dodge you asking me to show why I'm town.

Er
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 06:46:27 pm
In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?
Good
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 07:01:28 pm
In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?
Good

Jake,  please stop being asinine for the sake of it. I get frustration with a player. But this game isn't just you and TWM. If there's questions directed to you, or opinions asked for, please give them. It helps everybody instead of just hurting TWM.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 07:05:38 pm
How about this. Jake, what do you think of XXraptor. Please be as specific as possible and reference a post or two for why you feel a certain way, whether that is town, scum or null. Thx
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:08:27 pm
A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?
Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Ok but do you really think it was something town!Galz is more likely to do?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 07:10:47 pm
A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?
Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Ok but do you really think it was something town!Galz is more likely to do?
I don't think I have enough data to determine that. But I think if galz did it, he did it with a reason. I do want to hear the reason at some point, but probably not right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:12:54 pm
OK so here is the thing - I am VT. I don't really see the point in saying it because obv everyone is going to make there own decisions, but there it is. I had to look up what "lurking" meant lol.
If it has come off as such to anyone, I would like to say my reasoning behind being subtle so far is only because of my inexperience in the game. Watching and reading and gathering is pretty much all I have been able to maintain, and even then I find it overwhelming (fun, but still a lot).

I am still fine tuning this weird situation where I want to point out "skummy" behavior without making it seem like I am in fact skum. Not because I care if I get lynched because if we win as town we win as town, whatever... but because I want the points to be taken into good consideration.

Galzria could go either way. He is a random dude from what I am reading. I would note he seems to be making certain topics focus on things that he wants to talk about, and ignoring the others, which is skummy, but all in all whatever.

TWM says he doesn't care and doesn't want to put in time and etc, but then types up novels... weird.

I think that Xx is skum. I have no reasoning for it other then what I am perceiving from convos. It would seem to me that as he introduced himself as new in the beginning it would be an easy play to have a vet coach him to be a slow player and manipulate the conversations to their advantage.

That's my 2 cents.

Unvote

This is good. More posts like this!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:13:42 pm
I mean, besides the VT claim. That sucks.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:18:54 pm
With this belief, scum could be anywhere. On either wagon, or off either wagon. But I don't see that it's likely that all 3 were on both wagons and yet we still struggled to get a lynch through. Hence my strong belief that there is at least one scum amongst {DatSwan, Andrew}.

I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons. And if they were I don't think it would necessarily have made the lynch easier. so I disagree with your conclusion.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 07:20:26 pm
Surprise!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 11, 2017, 07:21:48 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 11, 2017, 07:23:06 pm
Above at Andrew
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 07:23:56 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 07:25:33 pm
To put it another way, one role (relatively weak, but can be very important) that Mafia often has is a "Role Cop" where they can learn the role of another player they target. Claiming VT is basically giving mafia a free "Role Cop" night action for the night before.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:26:37 pm
Galz your whole argument is basically "Let's lynch off wagon!", disguised in a couple posts filled with text. It's not exactly creative, nor is it effective. It's also your way of OMGUS without just coming out and voting me immediately. Way to beat around the bush.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:27:46 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 11, 2017, 07:33:38 pm
Pre-hopefulBigReadLaterOn:

Is it a XX/Galzria team? It seems too simple.

Watch it just end up being something like faust/Chairs/RR and they just let town massacre themselves.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 07:37:47 pm
Galz your whole argument is basically "Let's lynch off wagon!", disguised in a couple posts filled with text. It's not exactly creative, nor is it effective. It's also your way of OMGUS without just coming out and voting me immediately. Way to beat around the bush.

Yes, it is. It's not disguised, and it's not OMGUS as my suspicion of you isn't exactly new (see all of d1).

Your dismissal without justification or reasoning - simply "no, you're wrong, and you're scum" gives no value or credence to your opinion. My post looked at and analyzed both possible situations. Your response was "No, you're wrong." - and then you claim I'm being uncreative. Lol. Try harder.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 07:38:59 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 07:58:17 pm
Galz your whole argument is basically "Let's lynch off wagon!", disguised in a couple posts filled with text. It's not exactly creative, nor is it effective. It's also your way of OMGUS without just coming out and voting me immediately. Way to beat around the bush.

Yes, it is. It's not disguised, and it's not OMGUS as my suspicion of you isn't exactly new (see all of d1).

Your dismissal without justification or reasoning - simply "no, you're wrong, and you're scum" gives no value or credence to your opinion. My post looked at and analyzed both possible situations. Your response was "No, you're wrong." - and then you claim I'm being uncreative. Lol. Try harder.

I didn't say you're wrong, though you are wrong about be being scum. I just said your logic is flawed and you're spending a lot of time and effort trying to make people think you've spent time thinking this through when really all you're doing is saying "let's lynch off wagon" which, as I said, is not creative. It is however deceiving, maybe intentionally, and oh so scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 08:00:13 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.

Scum!Galz's reason is to make people dismiss as something Scum!Galz would never do. Yes, major WIFOM but seriously. What vet does this as town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 08:01:54 pm
And Galz's condescending attitude isn't doing him any favors either, bee tee dubs.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 08:02:01 pm
Let's look at Andrew's opinion:

"I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons"

- So, Andrew, Jake and DatSwan are town. Good to know. And Teproc. And Robz and Gkrieg. Holy **** this is easy.
- Good. Now we just need 3 scum in 7: Roadrunner, Galzria, XxRaptor, TWM, Skumpy, Faust & Chairs.
- 5/7 of us were on Robz. TWM & faust were on Jake.
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!
- Right. Here we go. Let's figure out the entire scum team that's voting Robz. Oh, wait...

"I don't think it would necessarily have made the lynch easier"

You're right. 3 scum being together on one townie taking 7 to lynch REALLY doesn't make getting that lynch through easier....

Haha. The logic is ridiculous. vote: Andrew. I'll still do DatSwan, but between that, his "logic" from the opening of d1, and his "knowing" I'm town d1... yeah, I'm good here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 08:14:51 pm
Uhhh I never said TWM and faust were definitely town. And I'm not convinced Jake and DatSwan are town either. All I said was I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 scum were voting. When I said "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons" I meant that to mean everyone voting, so including Jake. Also, like I said you're being condescending and trying to make me look like some idiot, which I don't appreciate and which I'm not doing to you. So please cut that out.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 11, 2017, 08:14:59 pm
How about this. Jake, what do you think of XXraptor. Please be as specific as possible and reference a post or two for why you feel a certain way, whether that is town, scum or null. Thx
Ok. I feel null on XXraptor. I feel pretty much the same way with him about Galz, so I like this post.

And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.

M/100-- Galz + Early claim = scum
M/105-- Galz + Early claim = ? ? ?

I find you claiming early a strange move. Obviously more valuables than shown. But you could be trying to recreate a move from a previous game. I think you are smarter then that. But why did you claim unprovoked what so ever?

I don't get how you can have reads on everyone so far so I don't like this reads list.

D2 reads

Scum
Skumpy -he just still comes off as odd to me from D1. 
DatSwan- Similar reasons as Galz. I thought he would be more active and aggressive. seems to be flying under the radar
TWM- I dont understand his attitude
Jake?? - No defense from from his wagon is a bold move.

Town
Galz
Andrew
RR
Chairs
Teproc
Fraust

* all seem if have sound reasoning behind votes do not come if as suspicious atm.

I will try to contribute more to convos, sorry for lurking

This post makes no sense

Vote: TWM

I don't understand your angle. Maybe taking the heat off jake?

This and a vote on me are everyone one of his posts from D2. This post makes sense to me.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

sigh. *If I ever am skum*. I'd like to think I can be crafty enough to make fake reads.


I'm not so sure how I feel anymore about a Jake lynch. He's not my number 1 suspect anymore, but his death maybe could help some regardless of how he reveals. Which is also a good reason to vote me, but let's not worry about that right now. I'm not going to help with a quicklynch, but I'm a willing voter if the deadline approaches.

XX, why did you vote Jake over me?

I guess I'm still just giving you space to see how you play, arguments were semi compelling in on D1 that you were town. You still throw me as odd but rather keep you around if you truly are town

Jake also jusy throws me as odd but he has yet to prove he's not scum to me in any way. Vote will likely change but I don't mind casting my vote towards him as now.

Overall there just isn't enough content from XX for me to develop a read on him so far. So null.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:19:17 pm
Uhhh I never said TWM and faust were definitely town. And I'm not convinced Jake and DatSwan are town either. All I said was I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 scum were voting. When I said "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons" I meant that to mean everyone voting, so including Jake. Also, like I said you're being condescending and trying to make me look like some idiot, which I don't appreciate and which I'm not doing to you. So please cut that out.

It's not condescension - it's that your logic doesn't follow, and hasn't been thought out. You're making statements to just make them, hoping they'll stick.

The wagon at peak on Jake was:

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

The end of day looked like this:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

Robz was town. Jake is unknown, but is 1 of 2 alignments. Either he IS town, or he IS scum. There are no other options.

Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

Now, options 1 and options 2.

1) Jake is scum

1.A) He was being bussed early in the day, he was being bussed later in the day:
- If Jake was being bussed early by somebody that left wagon, the only option is Skumpy, as Gkrieg flipped town. You have a town read on Skumpy (see your reads posted at the bottom - directly quoted).
- If Jake was being bussed early by somebody that did NOT leave the wagon, then you're looking at faust or TWM. TWM you have a stated town read on (see below), and faust you've continually agreed with (see below).

1.B) He wasn't bussed.
- This then puts the two remaining scum here: Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
- Gkrieg was town. Skumpy you have a town read on. Roadrunner you have a town read on. So from your perspective, the scum team (if Jake is scum) is: Jake/Galzria/XxRaptor (or Chairs)

2) Jake is town

2.A) Scum was voting Jake at some point
- First off, to match your "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", then scum would need to have been split either 2-1, or 3-0. Neither of which fits your follow up thought that "I don't think it would necessarily have made the lynch easier" - that's EXACTLY what scum voting would've done here if Jake is town. They were giving one of the wagons between 2 and 3 votes if they're all onboard!
- Again, it doesn't appear you think TWM or faust are scum based on your previous posts, so we'll need to disregard them. Same goes for Skumpy. So you don't seem to think that scum was voting for Jake. And in this scenario, Jake is town, so he's out too. Plus Robz who was town and Gkrieg, and we're left with... Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Roadrunner7671... but you also have a town read on Roadrunner. So if Jake is town, your scum team is: Galzria/Chairs/XxRaptor.

Now, you've never gone through and spelled all that out, but it's ok. So yeah, based on all the above everything you've said matches 100%. You don't think it's unlikely that all the scum were voting, because all the scum were {Galzria} + 2 of {Chairs/XxRaptor/Jake}. Do I have that right?


Listed below are your current reads:

TWM, Town:
Well I do think TWM is acting towny, but if Galz flips scum I'll be looking at TWM.

Chairs, scummy:
But then why would scum be trying to no lynch if they could just get a mislynch instead? I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Ok I missed a bunch of stuff yesterday so I'm catching up again. This^ however, I find very scummy. Holding off on a vote until I catch up completely. Also, as of the end of page 20 I'm not feeling a Jake Lynch simply b cause he's not contributing much. I'm not contributing much either, that doesn't make me scum.

---> Which leads to Jake, back and forth (see above), then:
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.

^I agree with all this. Good work faust.
I meant Jake is NOT doing anything I wouldn't expect Jake to do.

RoadRunner: Town
I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

I don't think so. If scum!RR has a chance to hammer town then he'll go for it. Also:

I'd rather lynch Jake than Robz, although no one really seems like a good lynch candidate for today. It's been sort of a slow D1 for me.

He says he prefers a Jake lynch but doesn't put his vote there, then disappears until the hammer. So I guess you could point to him maybe protecting a partner? But on the other hand he could've just as easily have put an earlier vote down on Robz if that was the case. Yeah I think I agree with faust on him being pretty towny.

Skumpy: Town
BTW, people should reread gkrieg.

I think this is the most important section:

So, town are TWM, chairs, skumpy, tentatively Faust, galz, Andrew

Scum are RR, Jake, and probably XX?  Could also be Robz, or datswan.

The town read on Galzria confuses me because gkrieg points out some scummy things before that, but there you go. I think gkrieg gets killed for accurate town reads, and well it helps that I also think Skumpy, chairs, TWM are town.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:31:19 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.

Scum!Galz's reason is to make people dismiss as something Scum!Galz would never do. Yes, major WIFOM but seriously. What vet does this as town?

I do.

I claim or don't claim, post or don't post, say or don't say exactly as I believe will help my faction win 100% of the time - regardless of what my faction is. Even without knowing my alignment TWM has figured this out. It doesn't mean I'm always right in my choices, but it does mean that my choices are my own and are made because I believe them to be there to be value in making them. I get that not everybody agrees, and that's ok. I don't expect you to. But if you're going to judge me as scum or town it should not be on whether or not you disagree or don't like my play style - it should be on whether (and why) you honestly believe I'm scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:37:48 pm
Also, day off today, and enjoying much DogFish Head 120 (16.7%... yikes!). So... you know. DAMA. lol.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 09:38:17 pm
I am more inclined to vote galz, than Andrew specifically, after this exchange but would rather not as I have an inkling that this is town v town. And mostly the better lynches are xx, jake and maybe datswan.

Or chairs. But mostly jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 11, 2017, 09:38:59 pm
DAMA.
I plan on being there very soon!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:47:47 pm
I am more inclined to vote galz, than Andrew specifically, after this exchange but would rather not as I have an inkling that this is town v town. And mostly the better lynches are xx, jake and maybe datswan.

Or chairs. But mostly jake.

I think DatSwan and Andrew are the best two lynches. The point I made... uh... 3 posts ago? 4? I don't recall. There was some point I made in there that made Jake read more scummy than I had been thinking before that would lead me to be willing to vote Jake.

Chairs I had a town read on d1... but man... I don't know. Now I just feel like I'm being hoodwinked. But that's more gut than logic. Roadrunner... well, I honestly couldn't tell you anything about him other than that his votes don't lead me to believe he's scum. XxRaptor.... I'm too biased to make a good read on right now. If I didn't know him at all I would think he was scummy - but I do. And my knowing him and his personality just leads me to believe he's not scum based on his play here.

It's a rough position to be in knowing people playing IRL. Part of why I passed on signing up for so long - but I certainly don't want ANYBODY to be swayed by my opinions on him - because they're almost entirely based on not-in-game-stuff. If you think he's scummy for in game reasons, vote for him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:49:22 pm
Also, TWM, while you're imbibing along with me, feel free to answer the below please:

Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

You are absolutely correct that Raptor's vote was far worse here. Anytime a vote is cast without reasoning behind it it's bad (ok, {exceptions, reasons}).

But let's assume Raptor IS scum for a moment as it's his bad vote in question:

- 8 hours (give or take) to deadline.
- Jake is at 5 votes
- Robz is at 2
- Nobody else is on radar.
- Scum!Raptor knows the alignment of both Jake & Robz

Questions:
- Does Jake's alignment matter here? If yes, how? Certainly if he's scum this vote makes sense from scum!Raptor. What if Jake is Town?
- Does scum, even newbie scum, place that vote with literally 0 justification? Do they not at least try to seem townie by doing it?
- If XxRaptor is scum, and Jake is scum, do you believe the third scum was also voting Robz, left bussing Jake, or not voting?
- If XxRaptor is scum and Jake is Town, do you believe all three scum were on Robz/Jake wagons? Why was the lynch so difficult to get through? If they're not all on the wagons, then one of {Andrew, DatSwan} would be scum, correct?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:50:20 pm
This was the post I was referring to where I thought Jake was scummier than I had given him credit for being. More than "3-4 posts ago". But not that long ago. I've posted much recently.

Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

If my interaction on D1 does not make me more or less likely to be skum then why feel the need to point out I was not voting at the end of D1? Again, and again, it just feels like you trying to take the heat off yourself and have people look elsewhere instead.

Also, not randomly claiming VT. I am new, but you kind of forced my hand into an explanation...IC.

As noted in my below post - because if you're town then either:

A) Andrew is the scum not voting either wagon at day's end (possible)

Or

B) Andrew is town as well and all 3 scum were voting on the two wagons.

Now, it's interesting to note that if Jake is scum he knew Robz was town and was intentionally nor voting him to appear off the wagon of a town flip. That IS more likely than town Jake voting off wagon of an unknown alignment player when the lynch was between them.

So that DOES cast a serious amount of suspicion back on Jake. But then for you and Andrew to both be town, again, all 3 scum would need to have been voting. This would implicate a Jake/Skumpy/X (not Xx, just X) team... With Skumpy already moving to derail the Jake lynch by going to Robz' wagon though, and Jake already intentionally placed off... I just don't see the missing scum as being likely on Robz wagon as well - unless they were there early. That would be {Chairs, Raptor, Galzria} to everybody.

But I still find myself finding 'X' here more likely to be off the Robz wagon, which brings me back to you and Andrew.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 09:53:39 pm
Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

I'm null on DatSwan. That does not mean I also think "anybody could be scum". It just simply means I don't necessarily think we should be auto-lynching off wagon.

Also all your analysis and conclusions regarding me are assuming that just because I posted a read of someone at one time means I still read them that way and that isn't really true. Everyone's reads change as the game progresses and mine have as well.

Not really interested in debating this further, it's gotten blown way out of proportion and it's really not that important anyway.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 09:58:03 pm
Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

I'm null on DatSwan. That does not mean I also think "anybody could be scum". It just simply means I don't necessarily think we should be auto-lynching off wagon.

Also all your analysis and conclusions regarding me are assuming that just because I posted a read of someone at one time means I still read them that way and that isn't really true. Everyone's reads change as the game progresses and mine have as well.

Not really interested in debating this further, it's gotten blown way out of proportion and it's really not that important anyway.

Those are all quotes from d2.

And yes, you're correct of course that reads can change. But what you post is literally all anybody has to go off of. So that's what I'm going off of. Implying that those reads have no merit or value is incredibly disingenuous.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 10:02:06 pm
Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

I'm null on DatSwan. That does not mean I also think "anybody could be scum". It just simply means I don't necessarily think we should be auto-lynching off wagon.

Also all your analysis and conclusions regarding me are assuming that just because I posted a read of someone at one time means I still read them that way and that isn't really true. Everyone's reads change as the game progresses and mine have as well.

Not really interested in debating this further, it's gotten blown way out of proportion and it's really not that important anyway.

Those are all quotes from d2.

And yes, you're correct of course that reads can change. But what you post is literally all anybody has to go off of. So that's what I'm going off of. Implying that those reads have no merit or value is incredibly disingenuous.

To be more clear:

If those aren't your opinions on people now, then if you don't want us to analyze your reads based off that you should give us newer, updated reads. Otherwise yes - it's completely fair for us to assume those to be accurate and to dissect them as stated
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 11, 2017, 10:08:42 pm
Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

I'm null on DatSwan. That does not mean I also think "anybody could be scum". It just simply means I don't necessarily think we should be auto-lynching off wagon.

Also all your analysis and conclusions regarding me are assuming that just because I posted a read of someone at one time means I still read them that way and that isn't really true. Everyone's reads change as the game progresses and mine have as well.

Not really interested in debating this further, it's gotten blown way out of proportion and it's really not that important anyway.

Those are all quotes from d2.

And yes, you're correct of course that reads can change. But what you post is literally all anybody has to go off of. So that's what I'm going off of. Implying that those reads have no merit or value is incredibly disingenuous.

Didn't mean to imply that. Most of those reads are the same. But that post about chairs, for example, was really reacting to that one post of his. Since then I haven't really felt one way or another about chairs. Roadrunner I was debating at the time and I'm still not really sure if what he did at the end of D1 is towny or not. As for my response to faust's post on Jake, I think I was mainly referring to the first two lines, because I share townreads of TWM and Skumpy, but yeah I wouldn't have a problem with a Jake lynch. I understand you wouldn't know all of this since I wasn't very clear and hadn't updated my reads since then.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 11, 2017, 10:17:02 pm
Hum....

Back to vote: DatSwan for now.

I do believe that there was scum not voting. I simply don't believe we struggled that much to get things moving with all 3 scum on board.  And there's a laundry list of reasons I've found Andrew scummy.... But like yesterday the more I've pushed him the less I've wanted to lynch him.

I disagree with a lot of what he's said, but at the very least he's not backed down from defending himself - and that's worth something.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 11, 2017, 10:22:17 pm
I think DatSwam is scummy for his claim. It's too easy for a newbie to 'accidentally' claim when they didn't realize they shouldn't. Rather than a town blunder, I'm much more inclined to believe that this is a calculated scum idea. This leads me to believe that Galz is also scum, and they're in kahoots when it comes to claiming for no reason.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 12:06:17 am
Cahoots. Hehe.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 12:06:50 am
Galz. I saw your post and will work on a reply when my reading skills get back to normal.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 12, 2017, 12:08:57 am
I think DatSwam is scummy for his claim. It's too easy for a newbie to 'accidentally' claim when they didn't realize they shouldn't. Rather than a town blunder, I'm much more inclined to believe that this is a calculated scum idea. This leads me to believe that Galz is also scum, and they're in kahoots when it comes to claiming for no reason.


In case there was some miscommunication...

1) I did NOT accidentally claim VT. I meant to claim VT, I just did not realize that it would have a negative effect on my townsfolk. I thought I had been pretty straightforward with my thoughts so far. So while yeah, in hindsight, claiming my role probably didn't help my team all too much.. I do want to reiterate to fellow townies... I claimed VT because I am VT. Not by mistake.

2) If you are town, I would invite you to go back and re read Galz. Whether VT or not VT, his initial VT claim had one goal and that was to stir the pot. If he is scum-hunting he wanted to beat the bush, great. If he is scum he wanted to gain info as much as possible in order to ward off scummy vibes as the game continues. Far more to gain as skum opposed to town IMO.

3) On a much less substantial note.... While I appreciate the high fives and back pats... Andrew seems very scummy to me.

4) If we lynch someone other than Galz or Jake, they are probably going to bus Galz or Jake.

5) Don't forget this shit. #GoTownies
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 12:34:41 am
Also, TWM, while you're imbibing along with me, feel free to answer the below please:

Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

You are absolutely correct that Raptor's vote was far worse here. Anytime a vote is cast without reasoning behind it it's bad (ok, {exceptions, reasons}).

But let's assume Raptor IS scum for a moment as it's his bad vote in question:

- 8 hours (give or take) to deadline.
- Jake is at 5 votes
- Robz is at 2
- Nobody else is on radar.
- Scum!Raptor knows the alignment of both Jake & Robz

Questions:
- Does Jake's alignment matter here? If yes, how? Certainly if he's scum this vote makes sense from scum!Raptor. What if Jake is Town?
- Does scum, even newbie scum, place that vote with literally 0 justification? Do they not at least try to seem townie by doing it?
- If XxRaptor is scum, and Jake is scum, do you believe the third scum was also voting Robz, left bussing Jake, or not voting?
- If XxRaptor is scum and Jake is Town, do you believe all three scum were on Robz/Jake wagons? Why was the lynch so difficult to get through? If they're not all on the wagons, then one of {Andrew, DatSwan} would be scum, correct?
OK. I can read good. I am assuming Raptor is scum. Gotcha.

1. Does Jake's alignmetn matter here. If he is scum, it makes sense. You already said that. I agree. If he is town. I feel like I already talked about this. But if he is town then I would personally anticipate that Raptor would be more likely to vote for Jake as that was the largest wagon. But I have made the mistake of assuming that is what scum would do (it is what I would do as scum). However, I think some scum approach the game of trying to avoid being any center of attention, including being on what looked to be the likeliest lynch wagon. But it could also just be him being town. But I don't know.

2. Does newbie scum vote with no justification? I have no idea. Probably depends on personality. I wouldn't, I think.

3. Um. If they are both scum? I would guess voting Robz or not voting. But I don't know which. I feel like you are trying to lead me into your Andrew and Datswan theory which if good should stand on its own and not require leading me like this.

4. If raptor is scum and Jake is town that means he went to Robz, probably at a time when there wasn't others on the Robz wagon. As only someone was voting Robz. Who? galz and chairs. So those two probalby aren't patners. but I am not super confident about that. Oh wait, Jake is town. So I would say one on Jake, one on Robz (Raptor) and another on Jake or off Jake. Again, this feels like leading me to your other conclusion.

Did I do it right? I understand what you are saying with Andrew and Datswan, but I feel like the context of others not being around is significant. faust could be scum. RR I don't think should actually be getting the town cred he is getting for showing up and lynching Robz. Who as mafia doesn't say no to a lynch of a townie (that could be a PR, who knows?) with basically everyone, including the IC saying "LYNCH HIM!!!" That is a scotch free hammer. chairs could be scum. you could be scum.

Basically I feel that Datswan and Andrew have same likliehood of being scum as the rest of the players all things being equal when only considering the wagon breakdown. I am more interesting in looking at what players are saying and doing.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 12, 2017, 01:44:24 am

It's a rough position to be in knowing people playing IRL. Part of why I passed on signing up for so long - but I certainly don't want ANYBODY to be swayed by my opinions on him - because they're almost entirely based on not-in-game-stuff. If you think he's scummy for in game reasons, vote for him.
[/quote]


skummy.
vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 12, 2017, 01:45:02 am
also.. evidently I am drunk and suck at quoting :P
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 12, 2017, 03:06:46 am
Vote Count 2.3

Galzria (4): faust, JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Roadrunner7671
DatSwan (1): Galzria
The_Wine_Merchant (1): Xxraptorslayer96
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): The_Wine_Merchant, chairs

Not voting (2): Skumpy, Teproc

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 05:46:04 am
Warning: Long post ahead, full of stream-of-consciousness thought. Reader discretion is advised.

I've done a lot of reading, mostly of Galz's posts, which now completely blur in my mind. Here are my thoughts.

Trusting is hard for me, but I think I officially have to give TWM townie cred. I will hate him forever if he's scum, because he has played a masterful game otherwise, especially with that very strong post defending me and saving me from death. Everything he has said just feels correct and agrees with what I'm thinking. Which is what I said about Robz, but whatever. If he's scum, I don't think there's anything we can do it about - at least I'm not the only one who's been hoodwinked. So I will write this post assuming he's town. If he's scum, this has been the biggest waste of time in my entire life thus far.

If Jake is scum: Then I think the max wagon on him had to be all town. I don't remember if I actually said/wrote it, but I was definitely thinking when faust was leaving that his vote would carry twice the weight since it was a fixed vote. Between that and the jake/faust beef earlier, I feel confident in saying there is at least 1 town in those two. Keep in mind there have been a bunch who have drifted on and off the jake wagon: Raptor, Chairs, and RR (remember, he said he would rather Jake than Robz, but didn't vote until there was no option).

If jake is town: Then faust is far from cleared. If there were two town wagons, nothing really mattered. I've got a lot to think about, so I'll skip this for a little bit.

There've been just so many people flying under the radar today that some them have to be scum. I can't remember any significant value Chairs had added. faust has been getting off pretty easy since the initial wagon - he's been vocal like Galzria, but not controversial like Galzria, which I find interesting. RR's been happy to fly under the radar, casting an important day 1 vote only once the hammer was needed, and sticking to Jake pretty heavily today. Datswan, not a lot of posts, though is he starting to get some attention.

Some more thoughts that won't be read:
DatSwan's post where he claims VT feels townie. If he's experienced, he could be playing us.

I don't think I want Galzria lynched today - he's definitely generating a lot of discussion. Having said that, he's so many interactions with so many people that it could be very revealing, regardless of alignment (I like Jake's theory about a Galzria/Skumpy team. Sadly, it's incorrect though). But Galzria's opinions just...don't feel right. I find it unlikely Andrew or DatSwan is scum, maybe I'm wrong. I get where he's coming from with the Jake-town-slow-lynch-maifa-offwagon theory, but that's assuming Jake's town in the first place.

Raptor and I have had just completely opposite reads (other than Robz, who was town). Let's assume there's a Raptor/Jake team - it's possible he would have been told to vote Jake at the start of the day for bussing sake, then left it quickly. Eh, it seems unlikely. That was a very strange and obvious vote on Robz though. Especially since he'd just prompted gkrieg for reasoning on Jake, then gave none of his own for Robz.

Since I want to give Galz the benefit of the doubt...that would mean Galz, TWM, Robz, and gkrieg are all town? Which would mean the entire scum team is probably either young and/or inexperienced (unless faust or someone is scum)? And they're doing very well for it.

Chairs: Like Galzria, I'm losing my town feeling on him. He mentioned he's very awkward as scum. Well, he feels pretty awkward now...

RR: Just no thoughts on anybody. He's been tunneling Jake, he's been back on forth on me, and he felt Galzria and DatSwan were scummy. That's it. And just so low on everybody's radar too. His necessary hammer is essentially a no-vote, with respect to Galz's theories.

Since everyone seems to have forgotten me saying: I alluded at the start of the day to a small, not very noticeable comment in day 1 by somebody here which I found rather revealing. But I'd rather not say who or what yet unless it's necessary, as I could be reading too much into it. Plus I think I want to keep said person around a little longer, just to keep an eye on them....



So in conclusion: still not so sure. Chairs,RR,faust? But then again, XX! But Galzria's been so weird! And what about Jake? It's tough, you see.

I was about to hit 'post' and put my faith in TWM and drop a sick vote on RaptorSlayer up in here. Him flipping scum would be revealing. Him flipping town, not so much. I'm ok with voting him if it's necessary

Then I thought a little more.

Vote: RR

Wagon number 6 is a-go! Reasoning: I really think one of Jake and RR is scum.

If Jake is scum - well, that explains why he was such a hard lynch. You could also make a case for RR being a partner who was reluctant to push him over the top, though I kinda doubt it. And if he is scum, well that would throw suspicion on XX, Galz, and Chairs for starting the lynch on Robz. Chairs and XX both started the day with a bus on him, but it didn't last long. And Galz has been working hard to save him from the hangman's noose.

If RR is scum, I think it's worthwhile including him on Galz's Andrew/DatSwan list of nonvoters at the deadline. No reason to push anything, but hey, why not get Robz out of the way if possible. Jake's an easy lynch, it makes sense to not commit to him and hope someone would set Robz up for the kill (that was me. Sorry about that). Since that suggests scum was likely on both wagons, that would seem to implicate faust. I think it's very risky of faust as scum to place a fixed vote on a fellow scum 3 days before the deadline, so I highly doubt a faust/jake team.

I don't know, I doubt this will amount to a lynch. Feel free to try and convince me otherwise, I'm all ears. I would be interested to hear a possible team of 3 that doesn't include RR or Jake though. I think the best we can do now is try to find a pair of 2 people where 1 of them is very likely scum, and make sure we don't mislynch on both days 2 and 3.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 12, 2017, 05:50:54 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.
You're a Wine Merchant...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 12, 2017, 08:23:51 am
scum to chum:
DatSwan OR Galz (I don't think they're partners)
Raptor
Jake
Andrew
RR
faust
(The other of DatSwan or Galz once one flips)
Skumpy
TWM
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 12, 2017, 08:39:51 am
Skumpy, I see what your saying about RR and flying low is his scum meta sooo, yeah I could see him being scum here. Skumpy is much more towny today to me than he was yesterday.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 12, 2017, 09:04:42 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.
You're a Wine Merchant...

Anything else to add faust ?

@Jake: Why is Galz scum ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 09:24:28 am
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.
You're a Wine Merchant...
A wine merchant who drinks his wares is not a wine merchant for long.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 10:26:52 am
Teproc, what do you think of the point I made regarding Jake not being on Robz at the end of d1? We were looking for a lynch and struggling to get it... those were the two wagons... by choosing not to be on Robz he certainly wasn't helping us get there (same as DatSwan & Andrew) - but his position as the other wagon feels a lot worse for the choice.

I dunno. I put together a lot yesterday and then after sleeping on everything that position at end of day feels really off. Like he knew Robz was town and didn't want to be on the wagon to avoid suspicion if Robz was lynched. A no lynch wouldn't have hurt scum!Jake there, and if he really needed to he could've flipped his vote back to Robz at any time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 12, 2017, 10:42:47 am
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.

Jake was absent, he didn't post in the whole weekend leading up to the lynch. Maybe that's indicative of alignment, but you act as if he purposefully chose not to be on Robz: there's no indication that this is the case, is there ?

Your second paragraph also seems completely contradictory to me ? What are you saying exactly ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 10:51:14 am
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.

Jake was absent, he didn't post in the whole weekend leading up to the lynch. Maybe that's indicative of alignment, but you act as if he purposefully chose not to be on Robz: there's no indication that this is the case, is there ?

Your second paragraph also seems completely contradictory to me ? What are you saying exactly ?

Ah, didn't realize he was also away. That makes looking at positioning for people extremely awkward.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 12, 2017, 10:57:45 am
To be clear: I don't know that he was away, I'm just saying he didn't post. He might very well have chosen not to post, I don't think he had a V/LA. Actually I'd be interested in Jake clarifying on that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 11:02:01 am
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.

Jake was absent, he didn't post in the whole weekend leading up to the lynch. Maybe that's indicative of alignment, but you act as if he purposefully chose not to be on Robz: there's no indication that this is the case, is there ?

Your second paragraph also seems completely contradictory to me ? What are you saying exactly ?

Ah, didn't realize he was also away. That makes looking at positioning for people extremely awkward.
It is the whole problem with all of yesterday. faust was gone. Jake was gone. Andrew was gone. Datswan was gone. Multiple others were only around for a second or two.

I get what you are doing, or trying to do, but there were so many things that were awkward about yesterday that I find it difficult to obtain any conclusion about yesterday given this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 11:06:00 am
Ok I'm getting ahead of myself. Clearly it was RVS. And if nobody else sees anything in it, that's fine. I'll drop it.
On vacation this week so will just be periodically catching up. Doing that now.

Scummy and towny.
He did say he was on vacation very early in the game. But never restated it or said he wouldn't specifically be around at deadline.

His last post before the lynch was about 20 hours before deadline.

I think Skumpy is actually truly scum and should be lynched tomorrow. I sort of have a bad feeling about Galz, though I understand why he voted for me.
Don't see where robz was scummy at all. Definitely agree about lynching Skumpy tomorrow.

He might have felt that moving to Robz would make him look bad. It would not have if it was obviously between him and Robz like it was at the end, but at 20 hours it wasn't an obvious conclusion.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 12, 2017, 12:41:08 pm
Right. Let's just let totally scummy behavior get a complete pass and instead. Let's lynch the townies that are actually scum hunting and playing the game. Cause that is totally going to work.

Look at what Jake has done today and yesterday. Answer=nothing. Teproc, are you ok with Jake completely ignoring my questions to him? Is that something you are ok with letting pass? Instead, let's lynch Galz or faust or me, who even if they (I am not) are scum, are at least doing townie things. Right? I mean, the Robz lynch yesterday was flat out bad. He hadn't done anything scummy and was playing, but some how became the default lynch because, well, I don't really know why.

It is too bad. Too damn bad.
This drunk speaks the truth.
I wasn't drunk when I wrote that! - - - - Yet.
You're a Wine Merchant...

Anything else to add faust ?

@Jake: Why is Galz scum ?
Claim
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 01:05:47 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 12, 2017, 01:08:06 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 01:13:17 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 12, 2017, 01:23:47 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Different people, different claim times.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 12, 2017, 01:41:45 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Different people, different claim times.

Right, but what specifically makes Galz's claim scummy and DatSwan's claim not scummy to you ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 02:07:20 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Different people, different claim times.
Wow. Such info.

I refuse to believe that Jake is not understanding what we are asking for here. And he has a town read on me. Teproc is an IC. So he shouldn't be suspecting of ulterior motives if he is town.

I think he is scum. He tried something coming into this game. Being vague, hedgy, but blandly polite and cautious about it. And it has gotten him suspicion. But he is sticking to it.

If he were town I have to think he would have, at some point in this game, changed and actually started doing a semblance of what is being asked by people that he is townreading.

vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 02:23:24 pm
I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 12, 2017, 03:38:13 pm
Hey guys, sorry I suck. I haven't had much time the past 24hr. IRL shit. I have 20/30 min to read and reply. I will be live later today (+-4hrs).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 12, 2017, 05:19:02 pm
I was open to voting Jake before, still fine doing it.

vote: Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 06:46:07 pm
Jesus christ, this wagon picked up a lot faster than I expected.

K, long post inbound. Everything I'm about to say will not involve my reading of Jake's or anyone else's character this game, solely votes. I would have to say that I do agree with Galzria - if Jake's not scum, all he's done is occasional, mostly unsupported accusations, and that's just not helping. Moving on..

Almost everyone has voted Jake at some point this game - this includes myself and the 2 dead townies. The only exceptions that I can think of are Teproc, DatSwan and Andrew, and Andrew did say at one point he's willing to vote Jake even though he voted Galzria instead. If you trust me and assume I'm town, then of the 4 unknowns who lynched Robz over Jake day 1, 3 of them are currently on Jake - that's a little concerning.

I did say I do suspect RR over Jake. What do I like about about the Jake vote is that is does give us a lot of data to work with it, regardless of alignment. Let's look ahead.

If Jake is scum: Then there is a 99% chance there has been bussing. The team could be Andrew/DatSwan/Jake, but that's a bold move to first stay away from voting and pray Jake would get lynched over Robz and even bolder to go all out on Galzria. So I don't think that's the threesome we're looking for. No, more likely, scum probably figured the lynch is going to end up being Jake one way or the other, so they probably wanted to gain as much trust as possible for lynching him.

Who would be cleared if Jake is scum? Well, I would say faust and TWM. RR's been camped on him for a while, which suggests town. Anyone else? Chairs has been joining wagons whenever they happen to pop up. XX started the day quickly on him, then backed off. Galzria could be trying to protect him, then gave up once it became clear that there's no way Jake can stay out of the spotlight. And while I don't think it's both Andrew and DatSwan if Jake is scum, it could certainly be one of them.

If he's town: So what happened yesterday? Faust started a wagon, it picked up quick. His vote was going to carry a lot of weight. TWM's been pushing hard for him to get lynched for a while. Tough to picture an all-town wagon where nobody on it was scum, and it couldn't get finished. The rest of scum could either be on Robz or AWOL, so not much to go off of, they were in no danger.

What about today? There was the quick early push of TWM, RR, Chairs, and XX, then it fell apart. Why? Scum was either off wagon and didn't want to raise suspicion with a quick lynch, or there were 1 or 2 there just to test and see if it goes through. When it didn't, they broke it apart to avoid getting accused of being too focused on town.

And as for now? It could be RR or TWM sticking to Jake like glue to get attention away from a partner. It could be Galzria looking for a desperate scapegoat to get himself off the chopping block (maybe he wanted to say 'I told you so', but once he's on the line, that's not an option). It could be Chairs wagoning. Or it could be town just unable to find anybody else to suspect.

Who would fall under suspicion? Well everyone. Scum could have been pushing for a Jake lynch, happy to follow along to go with the flow, or believing in his townliness so that when he eventually got lynched, they could say 'It wasn't me!' The nice thing for scum if Jake flips town is it takes away all of the suspicious activity from day 1 - it could've been Robz or Jake dead, so they weren't fighting for who it should be and could take their sweet time.


I'm not voting Jake yet - way too much time in the day still - but I can if the time comes. Let's see what plays out. There's more to be learned if he's revealed as scum today than if he's town. If he's scum, it narrows down the search pool considerably. If he's town, my money's on faust, but it's very possible I'm wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 07:04:02 pm
Good analysis Skumpy about everyone voting for jake at some point. He went back but I want to as well when I am at a computer.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 12, 2017, 08:22:25 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Different people, different claim times.

Right, but what specifically makes Galz's claim scummy and DatSwan's claim not scummy to you ?
Galz has a history of claiming early as scum. Also he knows not to claim early as he is a vet. Now for DatSwan he doesn't have that experience to know not to claim there. Also in my first game or as a rookie, I thought claiming was super cool. I was super hyped to claim early in they game.
Also TWM you really need to stop only targeting me. Not just this game but almost every game I play with you, I'm the only one you go after.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 08:42:55 pm
Good analysis Skumpy about everyone voting for jake at some point. He went back but I want to as well when I am at a computer.

Thank you, I try
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 12, 2017, 08:59:27 pm
Fine.

vote: XXraptor
Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

I understand that the circumstances were different but you just did the same thing that you criticized me for.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 12, 2017, 09:07:09 pm
I didn't read any questions that i felt needed to be answered on my part. If i am incorrect and missed something please bump it to me and i will respond timely.

Where i stand: I'm not 100% sure that jake is scum. But I wouldn't mind voting him to get a lynch. I still feel as though Skumpy and TWM are scum. They just seem to off of echother too well. I also wouldn't mind Voting Galz. I don't like his early VT claim.

Unvote just for now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 09:33:25 pm
Also TWM you really need to stop only targeting me. Not just this game but almost every game I play with you, I'm the only one you go after.
False. Also quote walls man.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 09:37:36 pm
Raptor. Context is completely different and everything that is actually important.

Here was why I was voting for. It was already an established read tied into Jake to an extent. No one had specifically asked me (or everyone) to comment on you either, like I did asking about Robz when you voted. You can't even compare the two.
Vote: TWM

I don't understand your angle. Maybe taking the heat off jake?
I don't have an angle. And the heat that I created on Jake? You sound like you already know jake is scum. If anyone took heat of jake it was teproc.

Check this out roc. Seriously.

vote: jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 12, 2017, 09:37:45 pm
I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 10:44:14 pm
So datswan is scum too?

Can we please lynch Jake now?
No just galz
What separates them? You list one thing that makes galz scummy but fail to provide context for it. Why is his scummy and datswan's not?
Different people, different claim times.

Right, but what specifically makes Galz's claim scummy and DatSwan's claim not scummy to you ?
Galz has a history of claiming early as scum. Also he knows not to claim early as he is a vet. Now for DatSwan he doesn't have that experience to know not to claim there. Also in my first game or as a rookie, I thought claiming was super cool. I was super hyped to claim early in they game.
Also TWM you really need to stop only targeting me. Not just this game but almost every game I play with you, I'm the only one you go after.

Galz is experienced enough to do anything as any alignment for whatever reason he feels justified.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 12, 2017, 10:55:22 pm
I have no way of putting this and having it come off as not skummy, so I am just doing it. If I get lynched - when I flip town - I encourage my fellow townies to remember this post:

If I were Jake, and I were scum. As a good scum team I would see merit in not answering like anything at all. My reasoning, given it is just my opinion... I am not claiming to know play styles anywhere near as well as most people here... But my reasoning would be it gets a lot of people to start a lot of conversations that would give the skum team a ton of info.
(i.e. Team skum accepts that Jake is done for. Game plan would be, IMO... OK that sucks, but lets make the best of it by getting the info we can out of it.)

So if you are not going to defend, and you have all the randomness of other people poking about (multiple VT claims and such), what is the next practical choice? Do the whole silent/lurk/IDK what the appropriate term is - thing, and get others to call you out.

Additionally, If anyone wants to give these thoughts any merit, I would suggest looking into those who have voted and then un voted Jake/wagoned then un-wagoned on jake


I don't know how to substantiate this idea more than it is just what I think. I am mainly saying it so it can be referenced by my fellow townies going forward.

Also - I would like to note how hard I am trying to come off as town (bc I am). So if you are also town, as I will flip VT if I am lynched/killed, pleas remember to come back and think about this because I am pretty sure at the start of Day 3 we can fairly iso out 2 skum based on interaction regarding the Jake Targeting.

PPE
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 12, 2017, 10:57:00 pm
Also...
vote: Galz
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 11:04:15 pm
Also...
vote: Galz

You were already (unsurprisingly) voting me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 11:06:23 pm
New/Old thought which I've probably said but want to emphasize. I have not done much reading back through day 2 to try and support said idea but:

Vote: faust

I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust. I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.

If Jake is scum, then it was very likely an all-town wagon on him, and mafia didn't want to lose someone day 1.

Why faust over Jake for me? Well, I don't really know. If it's Jake today, I'm OK with that, but not where I want to place a vote to set up a hammer, not now anyways. I really don't expect this to work, and I could be totally wrong on the person - Jake could just be a very obvious scum and I'm overthinking it - I'm just following instincts. I seem to remember that the 10-year-old mafia players would act very buddy-buddy and be very helpful, which is what faust has done with me mostly. I don't think faust is 10, but maybe it's applicable if he thinks I'm in over my head, which I am.

Remember, this is all newbie talk, so you can't blame me after the game when I'm wrong!

PPE DatSwan's stuffs and Galz stuff
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 11:08:52 pm
Also DatSwan: I don't believe we've talked yet (reading your post now though).

Hi! I'm Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 12, 2017, 11:17:36 pm
I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 11:22:40 pm
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

I kinda want to look there now. faust has seemed off and different, but this is off and different from any version of faust I have seen, scum or town. So I don't think it is likely very alignment related. But he has been the most persistent, while at the same time quiet, about pushing Jake's lynch.

Jake what do you think of faust in particular? Same rules apply as with previous questions if you don't mind?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 12, 2017, 11:27:30 pm
Side note: If this is genuine town TWM, then I'd like to be scum with TWM at some point. It sounds like it would be fun.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 12, 2017, 11:34:25 pm
I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.
That absolutely wasn't a threat. It's similar to what happened one time where I had a conversation with 2.7 that made me 100% sure he was town. I feel like this is a very similar situation.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 12, 2017, 11:43:30 pm
On Skumpy's point about Jake voters.

Others have mentioned that the Jake wagon go to its zenith Day 1 at this point - (5) faust, Robz, Skumpy, TWM, gkrieg

Day 2 it reached its peak at this points

- (4) TWM, chairs, Raptor, faust - toward beginning of day
- (4) chairs, Raptor, faust, RR - middle of day
- (5) faust, RR, TWM, Galz, chairs - currently

So as Skumpy points out the only players that haven't voted for Jake are Andrew, Datswan and Jake himself and Teproc.

All others have voted for Jake at a somewhat crucial time. Skumpy is probably the lone exception to that, as his vote left at a time that would have been convenient had he been bussing early. But that does mean he was bussing pretty early and for a good chunk of Day 1--I think he left with less than 24 hours to go as well, so that is cutting it pretty close.

So we are then left, as Skumpy said with the following:

- either scum bussed at some point (in relatively crucial times, and seeing how early scum lynches can hurt significantly I think scum are less inclined to do that, but that mostly only applies to Day 1 I think). So bussing scum could be Raptor, chairs, RR or Galz.

- scum hasn't bussed at all and the team is Andrew, Datswan and Jake. I think that unlikely. I think Jake is almost always bussed to a small, or even large extent by team mates when he is scum. He is an easy person to buss.

If Jake is town then I guess the question becomes why hasn't he been lynched yet? Possibly due to Teproc slowing down the wagon. Scum already being on or being unwilling to get on?

If already on that points pretty strongly to faust and chairs.

If unwilling to get on that leads toward Andrew and Datswan as they haven't voted, and maybe Skumpy. But why wouldn't they vote there? Or there is just a plain mix of being on/off.

Ugh. I think I am kinda talking myself out of voting for Jake.

My reads are just completely shot at this point and I am over thinking the game and getting nothing out of anything.

unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 13, 2017, 12:29:29 am
OK, I was not aware faust was on Jake now and Jake was at L-1 before TWM unvoted. Vote count fix please?

TWM: So you know I wasn't just on Jake with less than 24 hours to go, I was on him with less than 7. Also, RR was there 12 hours before the lynch. He had said he wanted to vote Jake over Robz, and he didn't, and waited until the deadline. If I had checked in and seen 6 votes, I would've been stuck with Jake, and even if I had flipped, gkrieg wouldn't have. And stop agreeing with me please, it's actually starting to frighten me.

Question for TWM: Why do you not think scum currently (or at some point today) bussing Jake is the most likely scenario?

I don't think I have anymore insight to add until others have chimed in. It's definitely gonna hurt that Jake's gone tomorrow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 12:31:38 am
Skumpy hasn't pushed him today though at any of the key wagon points, and notably he was the person (with Gkrieg) to switch the lynch yesterday from Jake to Robz. And here he's working to take heat off Jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 12:32:08 am
Faust is on me,  yes? Jake was L-2.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 12:39:51 am
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.
I think this was faust's last vote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: Skumpy on August 13, 2017, 12:40:40 am
TWM beat me by 6 seconds.

I said earlier that I strongly suspect one of faust and Jake is scum. Another point of interest: it's curious how faust and Galzria have been at each other's throats for 2 days straight, and now they're both voting Jake. Make of that what you will (that you includes faust, galz, and jake)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 12:41:20 am
But I do see the vote count was off. I wasn't going off those, was going off actual votes.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 12:44:25 am
Question for TWM: Why do you not think scum currently (or at some point today) bussing Jake is the most likely scenario?
Mostly I don't see why it would be necessary for them to do so. It has never been a slam dunk that he would get lynched. Teproc, the IC, is very cool on it. I think they could be bussing, but I don't think this is a scenario where scum would come in and feel super compelled to buss.

So if they aren't bussing that leaves, you (which you already showed were bussing more than I realized Day 1) Andrew and Datswan. And Teproc. This game would make more sense if he could be scum.  :o
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 12:55:06 am
The ones that could be bussing are the ones that joined later. So mostly Galz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 01:02:19 am
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 02:02:18 am
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 13, 2017, 05:30:01 am
Anything else to add faust ?
[/quote
Well I'm still VLA, and Space and Joseph will be at my place in like an hour, so you'll have to be patient a bit longer. Will check the deadline.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 13, 2017, 10:14:05 am
Right, deadline is Wednesday. I will do fausty things tomorrow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 13, 2017, 10:14:49 am
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

I kinda want to look there now. faust has seemed off and different, but this is off and different from any version of faust I have seen, scum or town. So I don't think it is likely very alignment related. But he has been the most persistent, while at the same time quiet, about pushing Jake's lynch.

Jake what do you think of faust in particular? Same rules apply as with previous questions if you don't mind?
He has seemed off this game to me as well. Not just in content but also post count numbers. (Will be periodically checking throughout the day when I have time but not much so will not be current)(Also phone posting or else I would back this up with quotes)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: LaLight on August 13, 2017, 10:18:37 am
guys, sorry, but for the next 15 hours I am transfering from Minsk to Moscow. Next vote count will be in 15-17 hrs.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 10:26:23 am
Sorry faust. I knew the others were VLA but forgot that it included you. That explains a lot.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 10:28:33 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 13, 2017, 11:10:44 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
On Jake. Is it not there for some reason? Am I hammering or something if I revote?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 11:32:51 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
On Jake. Is it not there for some reason? Am I hammering or something if I revote?
All the vote counts have had you on Galz. I don't think you would be hammering. I am not voting for him currently. But we were at L-1 without knowing it (not your fault).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 12:58:11 pm
I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

Alright, first off:

There's a difference between a "not-scum" read and "town" read. It's never really been that I haven't wanted to see him lynched, it's just that I've never really seem justification for him to be the top lynch choice.

I still don't really see what all the fuss over him yesterday was. Yes, he was absent, but that's often just Jake. When he came in he posted a bunch, in bursts. But that's also just Jake. I never felt, despite what TWM claimed, that he was avoiding questions. Things directed at him he answered. Things genetically asked he usually left alone. But he wasn't "avoiding" in my eyes.

At the start of today his wagon picked up exactly where it left off and where one would assume "either/or" lynches would start. Robz was town doesn't default mean Jake is scum though so again nothing presented itself for me to read him one way or another.

Much of today has been focused around me. Understandably. What WAS directed at Jake was a pushed mostly by TWM who was claiming that Jake had been avoiding. As I hadn't noticed it D1 I kinda understand Jake's frustration - but I decided to reread TWM looking exactly for all the things Jake had been ignoring. I didn't find much.

So yeah - not much there. From either side. But TWM's absolute conviction over this leads me to read town on him. 

The problem for Jake then is twofold and recent:

1) I feel like over the past 24-48 hours Jake HAS been intentionally vague and non-responsive. Especially in a way that is completely by choice. He knows what's been asked of him and he's choosing to be as short and nondetailed as possible.

- This could be entirely out of frustration. But I know that I, for one, have at least asked him not to let his frustration dictate his posts. It doesn't help him or us. But still it persists.

- You could be correct in that I'm just noticing it more because it's about me. I don't feel that's accurate but it could be. Certainly I'm probably a little more invested in responses and reads when they're about me.

2) My analysis of the wagons yesterday. I still believe strongly that there is one scum between {Andrew, DatSwan}. This is ESPECIALLY true if Jake is Town - because to believe otherwise means that {Robz, Jake} had 3 scum voting them but we struggled to lynch... And that doesn't make sense. With that much scum coaching it should've been way easier. I digress however. The thing that caught my attention was that Jake was NOT voting Robz.

- From town!Jake's perspective this doesn't make sense. We needed a lynch. Any lynch other than him is a better lynch than him. Yes, he had a stated town read on Robz - but he would've KNOWN that he himself was town. That makes Robz an infinitely better vote. But he wasn't there. He wasn't helping us get to lynch.

- From Scum!Jake's POV this is just fine however. He doesn't care if we actually lynch, so he's in no push to make it happen. Further, if we do lynch Robz, he'll flip town. Scum!Jake knows this and would rather not be on that wagon. Easier to point fingers at those who lynched a townie or say "I told you so". And lastly, if things did start to shift around or back to him he always had his vote as a card in his back pocket to reapply pressure to Robz or whomever if needed.

I hadn't looked in detail at the wagons until two days ago. Even when I saw the above it struck me as off, but not immediately vote worthy. After sleeping on it though and having him come in yesterday and respond as he did it kinda tipped me over.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 13, 2017, 01:36:23 pm
Very busy weekend. I'll catch up tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 01:40:38 pm
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.

If Jake is Town, as I've already stated, I would be almost certainly locked in on {Andrew, DatSwan}.

The biggest reason is that given the group of people I know to be town at that point {Robz, Gkrieg, Jake, Teproc, Galzria}, 4 of them had their votes on {Robz, Jake} at D1 end. If the scum team were also all on {Robz, Jake} that's 7 votes.

This is the end of day vote for those two players:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant

Possible scum in this group: {Chairs, Raptor, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Faust, TWM}

If Jake is town I strongly suspect Skumpy is as well - I don't think scum!Skumpy WIFOM's a change from one town wagon to another just to get a lynch. TWM I also read strongly as town right now.

Now, there COULD be 3 scum in {Chairs, Faust, Roadrunner, Raptor}. Certainly would have us in a bind right now as they're getting collectively very little heat - and don't look to be any time soon. But I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of those 3 be scum if Jake is town, with the last one between Andrew and DatSwan.

So I guess those combination of pairings is where I would be looking. 2-3 of {Faust, Chairs, Roadrunner, Raptor}, and 1 of {Andrew, DatSwan}. Maybe I should focus more on the first group?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 03:13:59 pm
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.
Well. I think I am at a point where I would like Galz to actually explain the reasoning behind this claim.

I didn't want to have to get to that point yet, but I, honestly, need something to ground my reads off at this point and I think this is a good place to do that.

Why and when did you claim here Galz. Have you gained anything out of it? Has town gained anything out of it?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 03:47:39 pm
Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.
Well. I think I am at a point where I would like Galz to actually explain the reasoning behind this claim.

I didn't want to have to get to that point yet, but I, honestly, need something to ground my reads off at this point and I think this is a good place to do that.

Why and when did you claim here Galz. Have you gained anything out of it? Has town gained anything out of it?

Oh, I doubt it'll be super satisfactory for many but I'm happy to indulge.

The moment Robz flipped I wrote a somewhat frustrated post in my QT about not being happy with the interactions generated D1. Robz post about just wanting us to be able to work together as town someday made me sad because I just have so much respect for him as a player that I don't know how I'll ever find myself in the position of being able to trust him. I felt a little responsible for his death as I WAS on the morning of the lynch and posted that I wasn't going to change and I felt that was a catalyst for him getting lynched instead of Jake.

A lot of my frustration came from that, and the other part came from people not being around or not wanting to engage. So I decided pretty much then that I would mix it up coming into D2. I wanted to be big, I wanted to be controversial, and I wanted to drive discussion.

As for the claim itself. Well, scum already know I'm town. Claiming that much is literally irrelevant. What they don't know is what my role is. Obviously I'm not claiming a PR in this spot. That wouldn't be helping scum PoE where PR's are, it would be straight up telling them. So claim VT. Create a firestorm of interactions, and see what happens.

I expected to get hate for it. Going against the grain will always be controversial. But I do think that between all the interactions and the uncertainty over the claim that it will work out for town in the long run.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 03:49:18 pm
Also, I REALLY want to be Masons with Robz someday. That would solve the whole issue between us and I think we would destroy scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 03:50:06 pm
If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 03:52:10 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
Did you keep tabs on who answered this?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 03:55:37 pm
Galz: I have an answer in my mind. Curious if yours matches up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 04:13:53 pm
If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?

Well, that's interesting. I think scum probably split. It's an easy push as "bad town play" {Faust, Andrew, Jake} - but I also honestly expect some town to feel this way as well - so it's not really a scum!tell to react that way. That said, Faust by far was the scummiest of these reactions simply because I didn't at ALL feel like he was voting me because he thought I was scum. His vote felt made because he thought it would be easy.

On the other hand, scum doesn't really have the need to jump on it. I'm going to get heat regardless so they can wait and watch. In the group that acknowledged it but didn't engage it you have {TWM, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Chairs, DatSwan}. Of these you and Skumpy have my most expected scum reactions (Almost literally "We'll wait and see") - but I town read you both so... Interesting note on Roadrunner... he's the only player to give me town credit for the play which I don't at all think was warranted... So definitely stands out for that.

Lastly there's the group that I don't recall even acknowledging it {XxRaptor}. This very well could be a "don't wanna shoot myself in the foot" scum play.

So... in order, discounting all other reasons for reads:

Faust -> TWM -> Skumpy -> XxRaptor -> Roadrunner -> Chairs -> DatSwan -> Andrew -> Jake
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 04:19:15 pm
Huh. Interesting. I felt Andrew.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 04:23:48 pm
Huh. Interesting. I felt Andrew.

He's scummy to me for a lot of reasons. But his reaction here isn't chief amongst them. It's a fine line to differentiate town not liking what they perceive as a bad play and scum attacking what they believe town will perceive as a bad play.

For any of the ones in that group {Andrew, Jake, Faust}, you have to ask if and why they would react that way as scum. What's their endgame and why? I'm not sold that Andrew's reaction feels faked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 04:37:14 pm
Well the reason I found Andrew's scummier wasn't so much that he disagreed, but how.

His points were more about him and your prior communication earlier in the day than they were specifically about what you had done. I saw it as if he were justifying his suspicion and eventual vote on what he perceived as a contradiction in what you had said earlier.

I haven't been scum in a while, but that was one area I naturally went after, when people contradicted themselves. I could use that as a springboard into a vote because it was very natural to point that out and hard to be suspected for that as I could just point to the quotes and say, "Look. They said what they said." I am just pointing it out.

Raptor did something earlier today that caught my eye as well.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 04:40:41 pm
Do you feel Andrew would be as vocal as he has in his arguments with me as scum? I haven't played with him much but I don't feel like he's the type to go that hard on a player he knows is town. That's what keeps catching me up every time it comes to him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 04:52:49 pm
 Out for 45 minutes or so. Will be back in a bit.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 05:02:26 pm
Do you feel Andrew would be as vocal as he has in his arguments with me as scum? I haven't played with him much but I don't feel like he's the type to go that hard on a player he knows is town. That's what keeps catching me up every time it comes to him.
Yes. He went aggressively after mcmc in M96 beautifully.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 13, 2017, 05:03:10 pm
Skumpy hasn't pushed him today though at any of the key wagon points, and notably he was the person (with Gkrieg) to switch the lynch yesterday from Jake to Robz. And here he's working to take heat off Jake.

Sorry, I actually totally missed this post yesterday. To respond:

Yes, I suppose I am trying to take some heat off Jake. I think it's faust, but I also think it's one of faust and jake, so if one is lynched and they're town, I'm voting the other instantly tomorrow, if I'm alive.

I think I'm learning that it's just in my nature to fear these big wagons in general. I suspect there's scum there to make it easier, and I get suspicious of those who have virtually no attention placed on them. I definitely don't want to place closing votes at this point in the day. We still have like 70 hours to deadline, which is too early in my mind. It would've been way too early 2 days ago. It is very curious that so many people have been jumping on and off the Jake wagon, and not very many have actually stuck to him.

I mentioned this earlier, I'll say it again. It's curious that of all people to accuse of me of trying to get the heat off Jake and onto Faust, it's Galzria who should do it. You are currently voting Jake, and you have voted faust not once but twice. So what's the problem? You clearly still think faust is scum. Also remember that they voted each other day 1, and faust has a vote on jake for a while now.

You've been pushing your DatSwan or Andrew theory for a while. First off, I'm not sure why you leave RR off the list. And secondly, I want to know how you feel about my Faust-or-Jake idea.

If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?

On the other hand, scum doesn't really have the need to jump on it. I'm going to get heat regardless so they can wait and watch. In the group that acknowledged it but didn't engage it you have {TWM, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Chairs, DatSwan}. Of these you and Skumpy have my most expected scum reactions (Almost literally "We'll wait and see") - but I town read you both so... Interesting note on Roadrunner... he's the only player to give me town credit for the play which I don't at all think was warranted... So definitely stands out for that.


I didn't respond to that for a few reasons.

Above all else, I wasn't sure how to take it. It seems like a townie thing to do it, but I've heard tales of a crafty scum Galzria, so I could easily see it being a very cunning scum move. DatSwan's later claim felt very genuine to me, but it is possible that he's scum, saw Galzria claim, and figured that if it's townie to claim, then he could do it too. I don't think that's what happened, but I won't rule it out.

Next reason: Before I had time to post, Galzria and Faust were voting each other. Again. I didn't take sides day 1, and I didn't want to then, especially since I didn't have time to consider gkrieg's death. Robz was on team Galzria, gkrieg was on team Faust, so I don't think it's odd that I wouldn't decide since town was divided on the issue (why did autocorrect want me to write that as 'isssue'?)

And thirdly: I didn't want to think about VT claims, I wanted to focus on wagons and the night kill. That seemed more informative to me than figuring out if scum or town would claim first thing day 2, since that's still a mystery to me.

Not going to read right now into who reacted like scum and who reacted like town, because I don't think I'll get much out of it. I still don't think Andrew's scum, based on other posts I remember, but I won't rule out the possibility just yet.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 13, 2017, 06:03:11 pm
People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.
Did you keep tabs on who answered this?

No. Going off memoery alone, it was mostly chairs and you, then Galz later.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 13, 2017, 06:03:59 pm
vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 06:05:52 pm
Do you feel Andrew would be as vocal as he has in his arguments with me as scum? I haven't played with him much but I don't feel like he's the type to go that hard on a player he knows is town. That's what keeps catching me up every time it comes to him.
Yes. He went aggressively after mcmc in M96 beautifully.

That's interesting to note then as it's not at all what I would naturally expect.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 06:14:51 pm
Skumpy - I *think* I've made my thoughts on your questions to me clear in my posts...

But short version: Faust being scum is definitely something I would consider if Jake is town. See my "Thoughts if we lynch Jake and he flips town" post. I also think aspects of his play (see: reactions to the claim) have themselves read scummy.

As for why I don't include Roarunner in the {Andrew/DatSwan} analysis... well, because he was on wagon end of D1, yes? On Robz in fact. So for the purpose of helping us reach a lynch he was there at least. He's definitely flown crazy under radar though and absolutely could be scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 13, 2017, 06:17:49 pm
vote: RR

I could get behind this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 07:10:06 pm
vote: RR
I probably feel about RR the way you feel about Jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 13, 2017, 07:20:10 pm
vote: RR
The reasoning behind this vote is pretty convincing  ::)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 13, 2017, 07:20:35 pm
Hypothetical - RR flips scum. Does this effect anyone's opinion on a Jake lynch?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 13, 2017, 07:22:11 pm
Posted the previous PPE.

Teproc - reasoning?

You did it to me too earlier on. Voted with no context I mean. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 07:41:20 pm
Teproc is IC. He doesn't need to give reasons. So don't bother asking. If you ask, it makes you more suspicious in my opinion.

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

If RR is going to be the lynch I think the above needs to be resolved. I have already said I don't think RR should be getting town points for it, but he at least showed up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 07:43:44 pm
I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum and I just really don't want to be the town idiot on the wrong side of a scum lynch again and have to be the focal point of suspicion for the rest of the game.

Which is silly because if he is scum and gets lynched that is all that should matter. But this is just going to show that my bad play in my last few games is actively affecting this one, despite my best efforts to not let it.

I think I have the yips.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 13, 2017, 08:52:00 pm
I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum 
Does this occur with other players or is it unique to defending RR?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 13, 2017, 11:13:01 pm
I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum 
Does this occur with other players or is it unique to defending RR?
This is the first time it has happened this way. It is mostly happening with anyone that is a milder read. It didn't occur with Skumpy or it hasn't really happened with anyone I have been scum reading. I am feeling it with Galz to an extent.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 14, 2017, 01:22:14 am
Teproc is IC. He doesn't need to give reasons. So don't bother asking. If you ask, it makes you more suspicious in my opinion.

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

If RR is going to be the lynch I think the above needs to be resolved. I have already said I don't think RR should be getting town points for it, but he at least showed up.

I am not questioning you here TWM, your opinion is yours to have. 

However, as IC Teproc has a completely unbiased opinion. As Town I would like to know what that opinion is. As it is known, I am newer to this, but as the IC is a GTD townie, wouldn't the winning plan be to divulge as much useful information as possible? It's not like Teproc can explain himself and someone is going to think he's skum or because of it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:27:24 am
Catching up now. I'll respond to posts as I see them.

Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...
I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.
I'd rather find a better lynch than defend myself.
Would have been nice to see some initiavite before there's a wagon on you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:29:19 am
vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

DatSwan of all the new players is the one that strikes me as trying the least - and yes, he was VLA most of D1 but he's been back since. More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet. Skumpy is Skumpy. I find him townie overall but wouldn't be shocked if he flipped scum. XxRaptor DEFINITELY would've played the "hard-to-get involved" card a lot harder if he was scum (He had never heard of Mafia before I started talking about M100). And that leaves DatSwan, who has played Mafia both in an online format before as well as in person.

As for the others:
TWM comes of as FAR more reserved and less abrasive than he's been in every previous game I've seen him. He's always been town, which leads me to lean scum here.

Chairs hesitancy and phraseology reminds of Robz' "This day is insane" scum verbiage. I remember Chairs being a much louder player, and here it feels as if he's trying to skate by.

Andrew because I still hold that his D1 play was a potential scum tell
I've already questioned this, and I find it hard to believe that Galzria would be able to spot the difference between "coached to play quiet" and just being quiet because that's your style.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:32:20 am
You guys think TWM self-voting is scummier than Galz claiming VT? I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually. I could vote Galz or Jake, let's go with Galz for now.

Vote: Galz
It's interesting to see our reads align as much. Though I can still see Galzria as misguided town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:33:30 am
Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.

I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually.

Weird that they would have a town read chain going...

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.
This must be the most ridiculous form of confirmation bias I have ever seen.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:40:41 am
OK so here is the thing - I am VT.
This is interesting. I tend to say townie?

Also out of curiosity, is there a special reason behind your spelling of "skum"?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:42:35 am
Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).
I could maybe let this stand for Andrew, but it seems very problematic to accuse VLA!DatSwan here.

Plus if one of the wagons was on scum, the reasoning doesn't really hold that well.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:47:24 am
[...]
Hence my strong belief that there is at least one scum amongst {DatSwan, Andrew}.
That's fine in terms of reasoning (but dismissing a bus on Jake this easily seems dangerous). It does require us to accept either the scenario of {Jake scum, Galzria town} or {Jake town}. And the group splitting of the former scenario seems a bit arbitrary.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:48:04 am
Fine.

vote: XXraptor
How did we get there?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:50:39 am
A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?
Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Ok but do you really think it was something town!Galz is more likely to do?
I don't think I have enough data to determine that. But I think if galz did it, he did it with a reason. I do want to hear the reason at some point, but probably not right now.
He already gave the reasoning, and well it was subpar.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:53:09 am
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.
Notable fact is that scum knows the setup. Many PRs means scum will be forced into VT claims and this makes such claims more dangerous. scum!Galzria might have seen this and decided to make his claim stick out.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:54:33 am
Also, like I said you're being condescending and trying to make me look like some idiot, which I don't appreciate and which I'm not doing to you. So please cut that out.
Strongly seconded.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 02:56:57 am
[...]
I have no idea why you take Andrew's "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on-wagon" as "I definitely think it must be true that all three scum were on-wagon", but that's obviously bullshit reasoning.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:06:18 am
I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust.
Why?

I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)
Well, setting up who you want to lynch tomorrow in case of a mislynch is generally considered scummy (even if scum never ever actually does it).

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.
Well even then I would only be one of them. Who do you think are my partners in that scenario?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:08:00 am
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

Well let's just hope he flips scum then. Also setting up mislynches yada yada
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:11:33 am
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?
"Well, I'm going to have some rereading to do tomorrow. That VT claim really sucked though."

I don't think you flipping town would change my reads all that much. I might want to reevaluate my town read on Andrew, but that's about it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:12:41 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 14, 2017, 03:15:17 am
So... Faust is back :P
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:17:08 am
I felt a little responsible for his death as I WAS on the morning of the lynch and posted that I wasn't going to change and I felt that was a catalyst for him getting lynched instead of Jake.
Good job ignoring that it was actually you who started that wagon.

I expected to get hate for it. Going against the grain will always be controversial. But I do think that between all the interactions and the uncertainty over the claim that it will work out for town in the long run.
It will work out in giving you an excuse for not getting nightkilled, and now with this post you even left a back door open for revoking your claim.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 14, 2017, 03:18:54 am
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

Well let's just hope he flips scum then. Also setting up mislynches yada yada

Help the noobs out... yada yada?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:20:10 am
Teproc is IC. He doesn't need to give reasons. So don't bother asking. If you ask, it makes you more suspicious in my opinion.

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

If RR is going to be the lynch I think the above needs to be resolved. I have already said I don't think RR should be getting town points for it, but he at least showed up.
I remember being scum in a game with RR where he intentionally skipped the deadline for no lynch, so that leads me to believe that him showing up is on the townie side.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 03:23:15 am
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

Well let's just hope he flips scum then. Also setting up mislynches yada yada

Help the noobs out... yada yada?
"Setting up mislynches" (meaning to say "if X flips town, we should go after Y") is generally considered a scumtell. I don't actually think scum does it, but it is anti-town in that it tells scum where suspicions will lie on the following day and they can plan their nightkill to steer things in the right direction for them, while it's not doing a whole lot for town. This is what I was trying to express with "yada yada" - admittedly not my most eloquent moment.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 14, 2017, 04:44:13 am
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 14, 2017, 04:48:14 am
Vote Count 2.4

Galzria (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust
faust (1): Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): Teproc

Not voting (2): Xxraptorslayer96, The_Wine_Merchant

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 14, 2017, 04:59:18 am
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.

That's unnecesarily cagey actually. In general I'd say the lurkier RR is, the most likely he is to be scum, though that's by no means a 100% thing. But the fact that he and Jake have been barely interacting at all makes me think one of them is scum. I'm not as convinced as I was earlier today of Jake's towniness, but of the two I think RR is more likely to flip scum. And I generally think there is more scum among the lurkers than among the active people in this game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 09:15:29 am
If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

Well let's just hope he flips scum then. Also setting up mislynches yada yada
Context. I was asked a specific question. Not setting up lynches.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 09:16:56 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
Any thoughts on the who is already voting him thing? I am with you that he is scummy, but that is holding me back and would love to hear what you think.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 09:18:21 am
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".
I thought you were theasking the question originally. Could be misremembering though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 09:22:25 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
Any thoughts on the who is already voting him thing? I am with you that he is scummy, but that is holding me back and would love to hear what you think.

We currently have this group:

Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust

RR and chairs are tentatively townie in my book, and while Galzria is scummy, it look him a while to join this wagon, so I'm fine with that. Don't see a reason why that should hold me back.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 09:26:17 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
Any thoughts on the who is already voting him thing? I am with you that he is scummy, but that is holding me back and would love to hear what you think.

We currently have this group:

Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust

RR and chairs are tentatively townie in my book, and while Galzria is scummy, it look him a while to join this wagon, so I'm fine with that. Don't see a reason why that should hold me back.
Sorry. My typing was more. Meant to ask about the analysis that neraly everyone in the game has voted for Jake at a crucial moment, either today or early yesterday. Does scum feel compelled to do that? Especially with the IC being solidly against it?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 09:26:35 am
I hate phone posting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 09:35:19 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
Any thoughts on the who is already voting him thing? I am with you that he is scummy, but that is holding me back and would love to hear what you think.

We currently have this group:

Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust

RR and chairs are tentatively townie in my book, and while Galzria is scummy, it look him a while to join this wagon, so I'm fine with that. Don't see a reason why that should hold me back.
Sorry. My typing was more. Meant to ask about the analysis that neraly everyone in the game has voted for Jake at a crucial moment, either today or early yesterday. Does scum feel compelled to do that? Especially with the IC being solidly against it?
Well. I would not be surprised if scum voted for him at some point. If everyone is so willing to vote for him, then why wasn't he lynched yet? That's because scum only votes there at convenient times. Probably 1 scum bussed at some point, assuming the other didn't still leaves a selection of 2-3 people for that person, right? And my working theory is a Jake/Galzria/DatSwan scumteam, which totally fits with the data presented. I am not concerned about this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 14, 2017, 09:36:46 am
I hate phone posting.

+1 also hate phone posting.

At work but hope to contribute later today.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 14, 2017, 09:44:04 am
Worth noting that many people had voted for Jake or expressed a willigness to do so before I opposed it... it's kind of why I felt compelled to say something, his lynch felt inevitable.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 10:39:43 am

2) My analysis of the wagons yesterday. I still believe strongly that there is one scum between {Andrew, DatSwan}. This is ESPECIALLY true if Jake is Town - because to believe otherwise means that {Robz, Jake} had 3 scum voting them but we struggled to lynch... And that doesn't make sense. With that much scum coaching it should've been way easier. I digress however. The thing that caught my attention was that Jake was NOT voting Robz.

- From town!Jake's perspective this doesn't make sense. We needed a lynch. Any lynch other than him is a better lynch than him. Yes, he had a stated town read on Robz - but he would've KNOWN that he himself was town. That makes Robz an infinitely better vote. But he wasn't there. He wasn't helping us get to lynch.

- From Scum!Jake's POV this is just fine however. He doesn't care if we actually lynch, so he's in no push to make it happen. Further, if we do lynch Robz, he'll flip town. Scum!Jake knows this and would rather not be on that wagon. Easier to point fingers at those who lynched a townie or say "I told you so". And lastly, if things did start to shift around or back to him he always had his vote as a card in his back pocket to reapply pressure to Robz or whomever if needed.

I hadn't looked in detail at the wagons until two days ago. Even when I saw the above it struck me as off, but not immediately vote worthy. After sleeping on it though and having him come in yesterday and respond as he did it kinda tipped me over.
This makes no sense. If I was scum wouldn't I want to be on the robz lynch to ensure I wasn't???
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 10:59:19 am
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.
Notable fact is that scum knows the setup. Many PRs means scum will be forced into VT claims and this makes such claims more dangerous. scum!Galzria might have seen this and decided to make his claim stick out.
Agree
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 11:01:04 am
Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.
After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.
No thanks. Scummy
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 11:03:00 am
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.
Seriously this same exact thing has been said like the last 5 games we've been in together.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 14, 2017, 11:21:37 am
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.
Seriously this same exact thing has been said like the last 5 games we've been in together.

Has it ? I don't remember it in Fleetwood Mac (a game in which I suspected you but not RR).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 12:28:19 pm
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.
Seriously this same exact thing has been said like the last 5 games we've been in together.

Has it ? I don't remember it in Fleetwood Mac (a game in which I suspected you but not RR).
Yes
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 14, 2017, 12:42:29 pm
Don't like all those hypotheticals "if X flips Y then what happens".

@DatSwan: One information you might want to know is that RR and Jake know each other in real life. They are prone to fighting and interacting a lot, usually. That they aren't here is indicative of something, I'd say.
Seriously this same exact thing has been said like the last 5 games we've been in together.

Has it ? I don't remember it in Fleetwood Mac (a game in which I suspected you but not RR).
Yes

Do you have a read on RR ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on August 14, 2017, 01:14:21 pm
Well. I would not be surprised if scum voted for him at some point. If everyone is so willing to vote for him, then why wasn't he lynched yet? That's because scum only votes there at convenient times. Probably 1 scum bussed at some point, assuming the other didn't still leaves a selection of 2-3 people for that person, right? And my working theory is a Jake/Galzria/DatSwan scumteam, which totally fits with the data presented. I am not concerned about this.
List of all players -
faust - early and throughout Day 1 and Day 2
Andrew - hasn't voted for Jake
gkrieg - dead town
Teproc - IC
RR - voted for Jake middle and late of Day 2
Raptor - voted for Jake early and middle of Day 2
Galz - voted for Jake only toward end of Day 2
chairs - voted for Jake throughout all of Day 2
Skumpy - voted for Jake early and throughout Day 1 until very, very end
TWM - voted for Jake early and throughout Day 1 and throughout Day 2
Robz - dead town
Jake - player in question
Datswan - hasn't voted for Jake

So I agree with your point but which one out of those voting for Jake could be an actual busser. I feel it is limited. Galz and Raptor. Andrew and Datswan are the only ones off.

So I guess that is decent. I am still concerned about it, but I feel overly concerned about everything this game.

vote: Jake

That should be L-1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 14, 2017, 01:17:19 pm
Reread through everything, not so sure where to go from here.

@faust: A possible team? I don't know, something like you/RR/XX. Or maybe chairs somewhere in there? I haven't seen any evidence suggesting against this.

Skummy to say 'lynch X, then if he's town, lynch Y', when scum doesn't actually does this? You are aware that makes no sense right? In any case, I just really don't want to get shutout my first game, which I'm sensing is going to happen anyways. So my goal is to try and isolate two people, look at them and reason 'If both of these 2 people are town, does it follow that there could be a team somewhere else?' And right now, the pair of Faust and Jake seems to fit that best. If TWM is town - and that is an 'if', but he's so quick with posts that match exactly what I'm thinking that he's seriously underrated and is playing on a whole other level if he's scum - then there were 5 town voting for a town with 7 hours to go, and there was absolutely no reason for scum to suspect I'd flip to Robz.

You could also throw RR in that mix, and there's a very good narrative for any of the two of the three of them to be teamed.

RR could be very well be scum, I've voted for him twice this game (neither of which lasted very long, but hey, just stating facts here). If the wagon builds on him and I have to vote, I will. My concern is that if he is town, I'm not as sure where to go next as I would be if it's faust or jake. But RR is still very high on my suspect list, and I understand Teproc's push.

PPE
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:21:31 pm
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.

If Jake is Town, as I've already stated, I would be almost certainly locked in on {Andrew, DatSwan}.

The biggest reason is that given the group of people I know to be town at that point {Robz, Gkrieg, Jake, Teproc, Galzria}, 4 of them had their votes on {Robz, Jake} at D1 end. If the scum team were also all on {Robz, Jake} that's 7 votes.

This is the end of day vote for those two players:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant

Possible scum in this group: {Chairs, Raptor, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Faust, TWM}

If Jake is town I strongly suspect Skumpy is as well - I don't think scum!Skumpy WIFOM's a change from one town wagon to another just to get a lynch. TWM I also read strongly as town right now.

Now, there COULD be 3 scum in {Chairs, Faust, Roadrunner, Raptor}. Certainly would have us in a bind right now as they're getting collectively very little heat - and don't look to be any time soon. But I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of those 3 be scum if Jake is town, with the last one between Andrew and DatSwan.

So I guess those combination of pairings is where I would be looking. 2-3 of {Faust, Chairs, Roadrunner, Raptor}, and 1 of {Andrew, DatSwan}. Maybe I should focus more on the first group?

Vote Count 2.4

Galzria (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust
faust (1): Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): Teproc

Not voting (2): Xxraptorslayer96, The_Wine_Merchant

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.

If Jake is town then there's almost certainly 1 scum on me, and 2 on Jake (plus or minus Raptor). These wagons break down to match my previous analysis almost perfectly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:24:00 pm
I felt a little responsible for his death as I WAS on the morning of the lynch and posted that I wasn't going to change and I felt that was a catalyst for him getting lynched instead of Jake.
Good job ignoring that it was actually you who started that wagon.

I expected to get hate for it. Going against the grain will always be controversial. But I do think that between all the interactions and the uncertainty over the claim that it will work out for town in the long run.
It will work out in giving you an excuse for not getting nightkilled, and now with this post you even left a back door open for revoking your claim.

Thanks for acknowledging you won't shoot me tonight.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:25:14 pm
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?
"Well, I'm going to have some rereading to do tomorrow. That VT claim really sucked though."

I don't think you flipping town would change my reads all that much. I might want to reevaluate my town read on Andrew, but that's about it.

"Being wrong won't change my reads".

Lol
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 14, 2017, 01:25:41 pm
5 on Jake? Current wagon is like Chairs, RR, faust, TWM, Galzria? That's a lot of people I'm not so sure about.

I've got a chance for my first hammer! But I'm going to hold off for a little while. There's like 2 days left, I can afford to take my time, but I won't be too upset if somebody else votes. I'll be in and out for the rest of the day.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:27:05 pm
I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust.
Why?

I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)
Well, setting up who you want to lynch tomorrow in case of a mislynch is generally considered scummy (even if scum never ever actually does it).

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.
Well even then I would only be one of them. Who do you think are my partners in that scenario?

He's not setting up mislynches, he's posting his opinions in case he dies at night. You know, the sort of thing that allows us to look back and see what people's reads were. Stop discouraging this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 14, 2017, 01:29:10 pm
I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust.
Why?

I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)
Well, setting up who you want to lynch tomorrow in case of a mislynch is generally considered scummy (even if scum never ever actually does it).

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.
Well even then I would only be one of them. Who do you think are my partners in that scenario?

He's not setting up mislynches, he's posting his opinions in case he dies at night. You know, the sort of thing that allows us to look back and see what people's reads were. Stop discouraging this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on August 14, 2017, 01:29:45 pm
(/signed).

Always in favor of people posting. Even if you think Skumpy -is- setting up mislynches, him posting is better than him not posting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 14, 2017, 01:31:19 pm
(/signed).

Always in favor of people posting. Even if you think Skumpy -is- setting up mislynches, him posting is better than him not posting.
I don't disagree with this, and I don't think what I wrote does anything to discourage Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:34:17 pm
[...]
I have no idea why you take Andrew's "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on-wagon" as "I definitely think it must be true that all three scum were on-wagon", but that's obviously bullshit reasoning.

Because in the context of the opinion he was stating they are the same thing.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 01:38:59 pm
Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?
Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.
So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.
Notable fact is that scum knows the setup. Many PRs means scum will be forced into VT claims and this makes such claims more dangerous. scum!Galzria might have seen this and decided to make his claim stick out.

Notable fact is that scum knows the setup. They know which fakeclaims are safe and thus have little need to claim VT. If Mod 3 doesn't exist, for example, then Mod 3 is a safe PR claim down the line to make if needed. It is true however that if all 5 MoD's rolled in then they have no safe fakeclaim and must claim VT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 02:11:59 pm
Reads: (please listen to these)

TWM: TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Teproc: IC, Town
Skumpy: Town
DatSwan: Null
Chairs: Null
XXraptor: Null
Faust: Scummy
RR: Super lurky aka for him Super Scummy
Andrew: Sorta Scummy
Galzria: Super Scummy

Now since me being alive is getting us nowhere. (the Town), I'm out. Good luck town

Vote: Jake

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 02:12:51 pm
Bleh. unvote.

That won't look pretty but I don't really care. If Jake is scum I'll gladly be the following lynch for looking the fool here. The wagon doesn't match with my analysis the last few days though.

I know it's kinda jumping the shark to assume Jake is town but my gut says it's a bad lynch - and if that's right then I think my analysis regarding there being 2 scum in {Chairs, RR, Faust, Raptor} is correct. And, well... I don't know a better way to turn the conversation towards them. They've received so little collective suspicion and there's so much else going on it feels like they're set on cruise... and I can't shake the feeling of being played.

I think I want to join Skumpy on vote: faust for now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 02:13:01 pm
NO
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 02:13:11 pm
Jake... damnit
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: JaketheBaseballGod22 on August 14, 2017, 02:13:45 pm
Jake... damnit
:) Beat ya
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 02:14:42 pm
Less than 60 seconds!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 14, 2017, 02:15:16 pm
Damn  man.  I'm sorry I wasn't faster.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: LaLight on August 14, 2017, 02:16:29 pm
Thread Locked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 14, 2017, 02:18:00 pm
Vote Count 2.final

Galzria (2): AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
JaketheBaseballGod22 (6): Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust, The_Wine_Merchant, JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): Teproc

Not voting (1): Xxraptorslayer96

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: LaLight on August 14, 2017, 02:19:46 pm
Don't have time for flavor. Or is it the flavor already? :)

JaketheBaseballgod22 was lynched! He was Good Memory, the Vanilla Townie.

Night 2 starts now and ends 16.08 at 2pm FT.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: LaLight on August 16, 2017, 10:10:26 am
Deadline is prolonged for an hour, till 3pm, due to dance classes I completely forgot about.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 16, 2017, 02:59:41 pm
Are my memories dying because I am not the most responsible mod?..

The_Wine_Merchant has died! He was a Good Memory, the Vanilla Townie!

Day 3 starts now and ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.

Thread Unlocked!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 16, 2017, 03:01:22 pm
Vote Count 3.0

Not voting (9): Xxraptorslayer96, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan, Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust, Skumpy, Teproc

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 03:01:33 pm
No surprises there.

Vote: Faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 03:05:40 pm
Bleh. unvote.

That won't look pretty but I don't really care. If Jake is scum I'll gladly be the following lynch for looking the fool here. The wagon doesn't match with my analysis the last few days though.

I know it's kinda jumping the shark to assume Jake is town but my gut says it's a bad lynch - and if that's right then I think my analysis regarding there being 2 scum in {Chairs, RR, Faust, Raptor} is correct. And, well... I don't know a better way to turn the conversation towards them. They've received so little collective suspicion and there's so much else going on it feels like they're set on cruise... and I can't shake the feeling of being played.

I think I want to join Skumpy on vote: faust for now.

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 03:06:21 pm
Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.

If Jake is Town, as I've already stated, I would be almost certainly locked in on {Andrew, DatSwan}.

The biggest reason is that given the group of people I know to be town at that point {Robz, Gkrieg, Jake, Teproc, Galzria}, 4 of them had their votes on {Robz, Jake} at D1 end. If the scum team were also all on {Robz, Jake} that's 7 votes.

This is the end of day vote for those two players:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant

Possible scum in this group: {Chairs, Raptor, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Faust, TWM}

If Jake is town I strongly suspect Skumpy is as well - I don't think scum!Skumpy WIFOM's a change from one town wagon to another just to get a lynch. TWM I also read strongly as town right now.

Now, there COULD be 3 scum in {Chairs, Faust, Roadrunner, Raptor}. Certainly would have us in a bind right now as they're getting collectively very little heat - and don't look to be any time soon. But I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of those 3 be scum if Jake is town, with the last one between Andrew and DatSwan.

So I guess those combination of pairings is where I would be looking. 2-3 of {Faust, Chairs, Roadrunner, Raptor}, and 1 of {Andrew, DatSwan}. Maybe I should focus more on the first group?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 16, 2017, 03:07:09 pm
No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 03:41:07 pm
No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

That's very kind of you to say. It doesn't really convince me about anything, but kind nonetheless. In the meantime, I would suggest claiming your role before I present more evidence against you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 03:42:57 pm
Sorry, I should apologize for my behavior, I get aggressive when I'm excited  :D :D :D and when i'm out to avenge a fallen comrade  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 03:43:47 pm
Lining up lynches is always a great idea. Worked great on day 2 ! Let's all take some time and look at day 2 with the knowledge that Jake was town, please.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 16, 2017, 03:44:38 pm
No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

That's very kind of you to say. It doesn't really convince me about anything, but kind nonetheless. In the meantime, I would suggest claiming your role before I present more evidence against you.
Yes sure. I am a Roleblocker and blocked you tonight.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 04:02:11 pm
Lining up lynches is always a great idea. Worked great on day 2 ! Let's all take some time and look at day 2 with the knowledge that Jake was town, please.

Which I already did yesterday

New/Old thought which I've probably said but want to emphasize. I have not done much reading back through day 2 to try and support said idea but:

Vote: faust

I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust. I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

That's very kind of you to say. It doesn't really convince me about anything, but kind nonetheless. In the meantime, I would suggest claiming your role before I present more evidence against you.
Yes sure. I am a Roleblocker and blocked you tonight.

Well that sure makes sense

Skumpy, Andrew, chairs are all townie, in descending order.

I said 'Hey! I don't think we should lynch Jake!' Then you lynched him. Then you roleblocked me (or so you claim, but I'd be very surprised if you didn't). Then you acknowledged I'm town today after never saying a word against me the whole game and leaving me off your guessed team of Galzria/DatSwan/Jake (which is now proven to be wrong). What am I missing here?

I kinda wanna say a lot more, mostly about his claim, but per my promise, I will stop talking and give others the floor. Also, I think I'm getting into this flavor a little too much. Or a lot too much.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 04:09:57 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 04:12:41 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.

Do you want him to, or just asking in general, because I followed it pretty clearly.

Also, note Mod #1 & Mod #3 are also scum Roleblocker/Rolestopper. Only Mod #2 Is town Roleblocker.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 04:15:28 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.

Do you want him to, or just asking in general, because I followed it pretty clearly.

Also, note Mod #1 & Mod #3 are also scum Roleblocker/Rolestopper. Only Mod #2 Is town Roleblocker.

That means that if Faust is scum and telling the truth about being a Roleblocker then there's a player with a result as good as copping him alive (not suggesting they claim without thinking about it).

Also if he's scum and knows Mod 1, 2, 3 don't exist then his claim is a safe fakeclaim - but I doubt that to be true based on Skumpy's reaction.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 16, 2017, 04:17:16 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.

Do you want him to, or just asking in general, because I followed it pretty clearly.

Also, note Mod #1 & Mod #3 are also scum Roleblocker/Rolestopper. Only Mod #2 Is town Roleblocker.
Um, a Roleblocker is not the same as a Rolestopper.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 04:21:33 pm
While I think of it: Skumpy, I assume from your reaction that you have nothing to says that infirms faust having roleblocked you ? That is, either you're a VT and have no idea either way or you're a PR who has no way of knowing whether or not your action went through. I'll take silence as a yes, but I just want to be sure you took this into consideration, since you're new.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 04:25:39 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.

Do you want him to, or just asking in general, because I followed it pretty clearly.

Also, note Mod #1 & Mod #3 are also scum Roleblocker/Rolestopper. Only Mod #2 Is town Roleblocker.
Um, a Roleblocker is not the same as a Rolestopper.

Oh, then nevermind. I've never actually seen Rolestopper. Assumed based on It's name that it acted similarly. If I'm wrong then disregard that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 04:26:29 pm
To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

If I made a topographic map and said high altitude=town, low altitude=skum, then the map of faust's read on me would make for a pretty good model of a Himalayan valley. Best metaphor ever.


More reasoning: I'm not scum. I now know TWM is not scum. So if faust is town, do you really mean to tell me that 5 townies were voting for another one, and scum didn't want to finish the job, especially since faust's vote was fixed and couldn't change to anybody else? I just don't believe it.

More reasoning: I don't like basing votes on character reads. I tried it with Robz and failed miserably. I'll try again - it's very reasonable for scum to jump out with a quick town read on me, and expecting me to be the day 1 lynch, not join in order to show up everybody who voted for me. If it wasn't for TWM's godlike intervention, I probably would be dead by now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 04:31:53 pm
So essentially, it's because faust's read on you changed dramatically ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pm
Skumpy, I'd be interested in you clarifying what your reasoning is for faust being scum, because I don't quite follow.

We need everyone top post and acknowledge faust's claim before we say anything about it.

Do you want him to, or just asking in general, because I followed it pretty clearly.

Also, note Mod #1 & Mod #3 are also scum Roleblocker/Rolestopper. Only Mod #2 Is town Roleblocker.
Um, a Roleblocker is not the same as a Rolestopper.

Oh, then nevermind. I've never actually seen Rolestopper. Assumed based on It's name that it acted similarly. If I'm wrong then disregard that.

...I also didn't know these were different things. Interesting, Mafiascum wiki says it's an inverse roleblocker basically.

I don't think claiming here was a great call for faust if he's Town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 04:36:36 pm
So essentially, it's because faust's read on you changed dramatically ?

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

Did it?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 16, 2017, 04:36:52 pm
To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill. I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill. I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 04:38:54 pm
Apparently, I also don't get the difference between roleblocker and rolestopper. I thought one just had priority over the other.

That means that if Faust is scum and telling the truth about being a Roleblocker then there's a player with a result as good as copping him alive (not suggesting they claim without thinking about it).

I don't understand your reasoning. I assume you're referring to mod 1 or mod 3, who would know there is a roleblocker. But they don't have any reason to assume that mod 2 is off.


While I think of it: Skumpy, I assume from your reaction that you have nothing to says that infirms faust having roleblocked you ? That is, either you're a VT and have no idea either way or you're a PR who has no way of knowing whether or not your action went through. I'll take silence as a yes, but I just want to be sure you took this into consideration, since you're new.

And I will assume you're not asking me to claim. If you want me to claim, I can. Frankly, I don't see why this matters. If he's town, he's telling the truth. If he's scum, he knows mod 2 is off, so he claims it. There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 04:40:58 pm
To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill. I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill. I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

But if you're a roleblocker, you know there's a flavor cop. So try to block him. And I thought roleblockling doesn't stop kills?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 04:47:20 pm
Skumpy - phone posting and bloc pulling is annoying - but to your point: You are correct. That was an oversight on my part. If Mod 1 is in play then the Doctor doesn't in fact (as I suggested) know that Faust is scum as they do not know if Mod 2 is in play.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 04:47:46 pm
I am most definitely not asking you to claim anything.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 04:49:44 pm
Roleblocking does stop kill. Again, the mafiascum wiki is useful for these things. Even for experienced players, who maybe should have taken a look at it when seeing that rolestopper and roleblocker were both in the setup and not under the same name.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 04:52:27 pm
So essentially, it's because faust's read on you changed dramatically ?

That and the other 2 things I said in the exact same post. I said yesterday I thought it was either him or Jake. I voted for him then, and nothing's changed my mind since.


I agree with Chairs .... I was not expecting faust to take my threat seriously and immediately claim, which is very odd to me.

I mentioned twice on day 2 that I had picked up on something nobody else had. This is what it was.

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.

Which is strange because the flavor name is Good Memory, not Good Memories, as faust incorrectly stated. If you were a VT and you saw in your QT 'Good Memory' in giant green letters, you're not going to forget it. Obviously, he could be a PR, but there were only 2.5 expected PRs for town, versus 3 for scum. The odds were against him, and I'm very sorry I didn't get a chance to point this out yesterday and maybe save Jake. Sadly, it does us no good today.

faust, who did you roleblock night 1?


PPE: For Teproc: I apologize, I apparently did not ask enough questions ;) At least I'm not the only who didn't get it, I thought they were the same. Still does not in any shape or form justify faust roleblockling (that's autocorrected: I'm keeping it cause I like the term), and his response makes no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 16, 2017, 05:21:03 pm
Assuming faust is telling the truth, are we sure we want faust to claim his N1 target? The kill went through, so he doesn't have what I would categorize as a Town or Scum result, sadly. We can't even really say Town!Skumpy is confirmed (we can only say it is now more likely that Town!Skumpy exists than it was previously, since we now know you didn't perform the kill last Night).

I mean, probably we do. Definitely if we lynch faust we do.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 05:23:17 pm
Definitely if we lynch faust we do.

Definitely ? How so ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 05:23:55 pm
Actually don't answer that. We can deal with it later. For now I'm mostly interested in the lurkers speaking.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 05:35:24 pm
Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill.


This doesn't follow. First off, if you target and hit a scum player, you have a 33% chance to block the kill. Secondly, there are 3 scum. 2 of them could have actively useful scum!PR's (The third could still have one as well if there is a Universal Backup, but then they would be a Cop Enabler, which I don't know how that interacts with being Roleblocked). Assuming you want to stop Scum from using their PR's (not town)... why would you not block a scum read again? Not to mention....  if you blocked the scum doing the kill you would stop the kill. Why would you EVER not target a top scum read with Roleblocker?

I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill.

Here you suggest that in the last few posts from D2 you thought Skumpy was getting scummier. I don't recall you mentioning anything to this effect D2 - but if I'm wrong, please point me to your posts. Regardless, you then opened today with:

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

How does your blocking him, and him (if scum) not taking the shot last night suddenly mean "Unfortunately, you are town". You gained no such information from your claimed action. All your claimed action tells you is that Skumpy, regardless of alignment, did nothing last night.


I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

This, does not equal:

Unfortunately, you are town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 05:39:47 pm
Hrrmph. Let's repeat: I'd like to hear from the people who've we've heard little of throughout this game. That does not include you. I understand you have things you want to talk about, I get that, but the whole problem with this game is that you and TWM and me and Skumpy have been talking around, in circles, not getting anywhere.

So, let's hear what these other guys have to say about faust's claim, and then you can have that discussion.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 05:43:46 pm
Hrrmph. Let's repeat: I'd like to hear from the people who've we've heard little of throughout this game. That does not include you. I understand you have things you want to talk about, I get that, but the whole problem with this game is that you and TWM and me and Skumpy have been talking around, in circles, not getting anywhere.

So, let's hear what these other guys have to say about faust's claim, and then you can have that discussion.

I'm going to assume this is directed at me. :D

I'll step out for now then. Need to head into work for a few hours anyway. But the game just started up again! It's hard not to want to post and be involved.

:(

/sadpanda
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 05:45:23 pm
To also be clear to the people in question: you need to step it up. Refer to my signature.  I am most definitely not happy with the way things are going, which is why I'm doing this, and you should similarly be looking at how we got to where we are now, and try to stop it from happening again. We're not quite at MyLo/LyLo yet, let's avoid getting there.

So Andrew, DatSwan, RR and XXRaptor: get to work, re: faust's claim and other things too if you feel like it, but the floor is yours.

PPE: It was. Sorry.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 05:54:09 pm
Teproc, may I have your permission to discuss the rules of the game with you really quickly? It needs to be a player, I don't wanna go the wiki.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 05:59:37 pm
Obviously, yes. You don't literally need my permission to post, I'm not a megalomaniac, I'm just worried that we're repeating the patterns that have gotten us here.

That being said, if it's about the rules, are you sure the answers aren't in the opening post either ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 06:01:57 pm
Sorry, I just don't want to get yelled at.

It says in the rule clarifications: "Rolestopping doesn't stop kills". What's the point of that, unless in the .0001% chance scum decides to rolestop themselves for some weird reason?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 16, 2017, 06:02:57 pm
Sorry I woke up late :P

IDK what I am supposed to like say at this point in the game. My main read has now recently switched, which is Galz. I no longer currently am sitting on him as skum.

I am going to be a little short on post for the rest of this IRL day because I am taking the IC advice and re reading D2 as if Jake was Town. Mainly because I was SO SURE he was skum I didn't even bother targeting him, so now I do not know what I missed.

Xx and Chairs need to speak up a bit. I can't speak for Chairs but my read on Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.

PPE

Also a note - this day is starting with Faust the same way D2 was starting with Jake. Don't know what that means, just kind of pointing it out since I have to acknowledged my Jake read was wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 06:06:27 pm
Rolestopping, as it name indicates, is here to stop roles.

Let's say you're worried that one of the members of the scum teams might be targeted by a Cop. Or that the member performing the kill might get roleblocked, or tracked. Well, rolestopping them means you're safe on those fronts.

In the same way, if you think your NK target is likely to be Doctored, rolestopping the target will take care of that.

Rolestopping is, in fact, a very powerful tool for scum in this setup.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 06:07:21 pm
DatSwan, what do you think of faust's claim ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 16, 2017, 06:14:37 pm
Rolestopping, as it name indicates, is here to stop roles.

Let's say you're worried that one of the members of the scum teams might be targeted by a Cop. Or that the member performing the kill might get roleblocked, or tracked. Well, rolestopping them means you're safe on those fronts.

In the same way, if you think your NK target is likely to be Doctored, rolestopping the target will take care of that.

Rolestopping is, in fact, a very powerful tool for scum in this setup.

OK, I totally should've looked at the wiki, you're right. I apologize. Now I gotta rethink, but my vote's staying on faust.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 06:21:22 pm
What do I think of faust's claim? I think people should stop randomly claiming for no effing reason. If Galz and faust turn out to be town, then their claims combined with Jake's ridiculously bad self-vote are very bad for town. I happen to still think Galz is scum though.

Vote: Galz

Gonna reread yesterday a little bit.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 06:23:59 pm
Super tame debate that could easily be two team members:

And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.
How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)

The emphasis there should have been made clear by my point, but as it seems not to have been: I believe you've tried to paint this claim as "premature" and thus scummy by comparing it to M100 when I, in your words, "have a history of premature claims as scum".- but that's not true. My claim timing as scum was impeccable, and won my faction the game. I hope to do the same for town here (and only time will tell) - but your characterization is falsely stated to make me appear scummy for reasons that don't match up.
Yes, your claim timing as scum was good. Had you been town that game, it would have been premature. That is exactly the point I am making.

Ah, well, yes. In that game, had I been town, I agree. But I disagree with that intent being what you stated before. With that correction, I have no disagreement.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 06:24:52 pm
Oh, right, thank you for reminding me.

SELF-VOTING AS TOWN IS NEVER GOOD. NEVER. DON'T.

Worth repeating, apparently.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 16, 2017, 06:26:16 pm
Oh, right, thank you for reminding me.

SELF-VOTING AS TOWN IS NEVER GOOD. NEVER. DON'T.

Worth repeating, apparently.

This. Forever this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 06:30:01 pm
Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 06:37:44 pm
Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

Great. Well, not great because hunting for scumteams is generally foolish, but you know that.

Did you get anything else from your reread of D2 ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 06:40:28 pm
Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

Great. Well, not great because hunting for scumteams is generally foolish, but you know that.

Did you get anything else from your reread of D2 ?

Not hunting for a team, just felt like putting that out there. Gotta do some IRL stuff right now, I'll get back to the reread later. Sorry!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 16, 2017, 06:47:26 pm
Right, well, I'm going to sleep as well. I'd still like DatSwan to answer that question (what do you think of faust's claim) and XXraptor and RR to get here and post something meaningful.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 16, 2017, 07:16:03 pm
I hve a tentative town read on e
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 07:39:56 pm
About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.

I think Skumpy is town, so that leaves faust as the odd one out on this wagon from D1. I doubt all 5 are town. Possible, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 16, 2017, 08:07:01 pm
Galz votes D2:

Starts off the day voting faust:

Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria

Are you voting me because you think it's bad play, or because you think I'm scum?

vote: faust

Switches to DatSwan:

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

DatSwan of all the new players is the one that strikes me as trying the least - and yes, he was VLA most of D1 but he's been back since. More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet. Skumpy is Skumpy. I find him townie overall but wouldn't be shocked if he flipped scum. XxRaptor DEFINITELY would've played the "hard-to-get involved" card a lot harder if he was scum (He had never heard of Mafia before I started talking about M100). And that leaves DatSwan, who has played Mafia both in an online format before as well as in person.

As for the others:
TWM comes of as FAR more reserved and less abrasive than he's been in every previous game I've seen him. He's always been town, which leads me to lean scum here.

Chairs hesitancy and phraseology reminds of Robz' "This day is insane" scum verbiage. I remember Chairs being a much louder player, and here it feels as if he's trying to skate by.

Andrew because I still hold that his D1 play was a potential scum tell

Switches to me:

Let's look at Andrew's opinion:

"I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons"

- So, Andrew, Jake and DatSwan are town. Good to know. And Teproc. And Robz and Gkrieg. Holy **** this is easy.
- Good. Now we just need 3 scum in 7: Roadrunner, Galzria, XxRaptor, TWM, Skumpy, Faust & Chairs.
- 5/7 of us were on Robz. TWM & faust were on Jake.
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!
- Right. Here we go. Let's figure out the entire scum team that's voting Robz. Oh, wait...

"I don't think it would necessarily have made the lynch easier"

You're right. 3 scum being together on one townie taking 7 to lynch REALLY doesn't make getting that lynch through easier....

Haha. The logic is ridiculous. vote: Andrew. I'll still do DatSwan, but between that, his "logic" from the opening of d1, and his "knowing" I'm town d1... yeah, I'm good here.

I'm pretty confident DatSwan is town, based on how Galz has pushed him. So fast forward to:

- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

Galz mocks the idea of the whole scum team voting Robz and I agree that is unlikely. So assuming DatSwan is town, and knowing that TWM is town, that again leaves faust.

Back to DatSwan:

Hum....

Back to vote: DatSwan for now.

I do believe that there was scum not voting. I simply don't believe we struggled that much to get things moving with all 3 scum on board.  And there's a laundry list of reasons I've found Andrew scummy.... But like yesterday the more I've pushed him the less I've wanted to lynch him.

I disagree with a lot of what he's said, but at the very least he's not backed down from defending himself - and that's worth something.

Jake for no good reason:

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake

Not a vote but an interesting answer to TWM's question:

If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?

Well, that's interesting. I think scum probably split. It's an easy push as "bad town play" {Faust, Andrew, Jake} - but I also honestly expect some town to feel this way as well - so it's not really a scum!tell to react that way. That said, Faust by far was the scummiest of these reactions simply because I didn't at ALL feel like he was voting me because he thought I was scum. His vote felt made because he thought it would be easy.

On the other hand, scum doesn't really have the need to jump on it. I'm going to get heat regardless so they can wait and watch. In the group that acknowledged it but didn't engage it you have {TWM, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Chairs, DatSwan}. Of these you and Skumpy have my most expected scum reactions (Almost literally "We'll wait and see") - but I town read you both so... Interesting note on Roadrunner... he's the only player to give me town credit for the play which I don't at all think was warranted... So definitely stands out for that.

Lastly there's the group that I don't recall even acknowledging it {XxRaptor}. This very well could be a "don't wanna shoot myself in the foot" scum play.

So... in order, discounting all other reasons for reads:

Faust -> TWM -> Skumpy -> XxRaptor -> Roadrunner -> Chairs -> DatSwan -> Andrew -> Jake

He ranks faust as reacting the scummiest to his claim ("by far"!).

Not a vote, but says he could vote RR:

vote: RR

I could get behind this.

faust expresses a townread on Galz:

You guys think TWM self-voting is scummier than Galz claiming VT? I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually. I could vote Galz or Jake, let's go with Galz for now.

Vote: Galz
It's interesting to see our reads align as much. Though I can still see Galzria as misguided town.

faust vote after Jake hammers himself:

Bleh. unvote.

That won't look pretty but I don't really care. If Jake is scum I'll gladly be the following lynch for looking the fool here. The wagon doesn't match with my analysis the last few days though.

I know it's kinda jumping the shark to assume Jake is town but my gut says it's a bad lynch - and if that's right then I think my analysis regarding there being 2 scum in {Chairs, RR, Faust, Raptor} is correct. And, well... I don't know a better way to turn the conversation towards them. They've received so little collective suspicion and there's so much else going on it feels like they're set on cruise... and I can't shake the feeling of being played.

I think I want to join Skumpy on vote: faust for now.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 16, 2017, 08:24:50 pm
For now I'm mostly interested in the lurkers speaking.

Rip Jake & TWM

I will have to reread what has happened today. Currently have my eye on Galz, Chairs and faust.
Probably because I'm new, Good players come off as scummy

Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.


This is also true
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 16, 2017, 10:09:39 pm
I'm not counterclaming Faust, but let me look at the setup and see how dubious it is.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 16, 2017, 11:15:06 pm
Sorry I woke up late :P

IDK what I am supposed to like say at this point in the game. My main read has now recently switched, which is Galz. I no longer currently am sitting on him as skum.

I am going to be a little short on post for the rest of this IRL day because I am taking the IC advice and re reading D2 as if Jake was Town. Mainly because I was SO SURE he was skum I didn't even bother targeting him, so now I do not know what I missed.

Xx and Chairs need to speak up a bit. I can't speak for Chairs but my read on Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.

PPE

Also a note - this day is starting with Faust the same way D2 was starting with Jake. Don't know what that means, just kind of pointing it out since I have to acknowledged my Jake read was wrong.

Started to post more today but Teproc asked me to hold off on my thoughts for the moment.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 02:24:39 am
There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.
No, there is a 50% chance. Plus, assuming mod 3 isn't active, we can rule out this possibility once we massclaim, so knowing whether you can confirm the blocking would indeed be helpful.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 02:26:56 am
Assuming faust is telling the truth [...] if we lynch faust we do.
Small tip: assuming I am telling the truth, you shouldn't lynch me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 02:43:06 am
Oh boy, Galzria comes in to disagree with everything I said.

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill.


This doesn't follow. First off, if you target and hit a scum player, you have a 33% chance to block the kill. Secondly, there are 3 scum. 2 of them could have actively useful scum!PR's (The third could still have one as well if there is a Universal Backup, but then they would be a Cop Enabler, which I don't know how that interacts with being Roleblocked). Assuming you want to stop Scum from using their PR's (not town)... why would you not block a scum read again? Not to mention....  if you blocked the scum doing the kill you would stop the kill. Why would you EVER not target a top scum read with Roleblocker?
I mean I could block another scum role, yes. But I won't know that; it does very little in terms of information. On the other hand, a blocked nightkill will show and will be super useful going forward. It should be obvious the blocking the kil >>>> blocking another scum power. And of course "I have a 33% chance to block the kill" is pretty nonsensical. Scum knows there is a roleblocker and will act accordingly and not let scummy players perform the kill.

Here you suggest that in the last few posts from D2 you thought Skumpy was getting scummier. I don't recall you mentioning anything to this effect D2 - but if I'm wrong, please point me to your posts.
Well some of it is OMGUS. But looking at Jake's flip, trying hard to avoid that wagon is kinda scummy.

How does your blocking him, and him (if scum) not taking the shot last night suddenly mean "Unfortunately, you are town". You gained no such information from your claimed action. All your claimed action tells you is that Skumpy, regardless of alignment, did nothing last night.
I already explained. Skumpy is a likely pick for night kill performing. Is that certain? No. Almost no results are. But it's good enough for me to exclude him from any lynchings today.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 02:46:05 am
What do I think of faust's claim? I think people should stop randomly claiming for no effing reason. If Galz and faust turn out to be town, then their claims combined with Jake's ridiculously bad self-vote are very bad for town. I happen to still think Galz is scum though.
From my perspective, scum already knows a good deal about the setup since they had two Flavor Cop shots to use. I think a mass claim would not hurt at this point.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 02:48:00 am
There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.
No, there is a 50% chance. Plus, assuming mod 3 isn't active, we can rule out this possibility once we massclaim, so knowing whether you can confirm the blocking would indeed be helpful.

First sentence: Yes, I now get that I was wrong after Terpoc explained what Rolestopping is.

Teproc's right by the way: I got very impatient during night 2 and was way too eager to post, and I let my feelings slip far more than I should've. I should've held more back, and given the quieter players a chance to speak up without my thoughts influencing any potential scum there. That's why I don't really want to address any of your second sentence just yet (and there's a lot in those 27 words that are very telling).

Andrew has said how he feels. While I'm not going to dismiss the possibility of a faust/Galzria team (with 3 newbies, it's a great opportunity to try a master con), what he said in his posts doesn't really explain why he voted Galzria over faust.

RR has still not expressed how he feels about your claim. I'm waiting on that.

DatSwan has still not expressed how he feels about your claim. I'm waiting on that. Apparently, he had a scum read on Jake day 2 which he never told us about as far I can remember, meaning that literally all 13 players except Teproc were willing to vote Jake. That would've been good to know yesterday.

XX has still not express how he feels about your claim. I'm waiting on that. If he wants questions, I'll give him some:

1) So what happened to the Skummy Skumpy read?
2) Why faust and Chairs? They were nowhere to be seen on your radar before.
3) What do you make of the three claims so far (Galz, DatSwan, faust)
4) How do you think mainstream media has affected the music industry?
5) Why did you not want to vote Jake yesterday?
6) If you had to choose 1 and only 1 person to die right now, who would it be and why?

Question for everybody, be honest: On a scale from 1-7, where am I on your skum reads?


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 02:52:22 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 03:16:06 am
Still waiting for RR and XXraptor to post content (not an accusation, you didn't have time that's fine but I'm still waiting), and for DatSwan to answer my question.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 17, 2017, 03:17:07 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan

So essentially you've given up scumhunting. Ok.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 03:19:15 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan

So essentially you've given up scumhunting. Ok.
You can be a real pain, you know that, right?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 03:22:08 am
Still waiting for RR and XXraptor to post content (not an accusation, you didn't have time that's fine but I'm still waiting), and for DatSwan to answer my question.

That being said, people (Galz, chairs etc.) can feel free to post, can't wait forever.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 17, 2017, 03:25:13 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan

So essentially you've given up scumhunting. Ok.

It's also literally my own post that you misquoted that he hated on yesterday from me but loves from you. Just fyi.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 17, 2017, 03:25:54 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan

So essentially you've given up scumhunting. Ok.
You can be a real pain, you know that, right?

Not trying to be a pain. It just looks like you've abandoned rereading and analyzing things in favor of Galz's master plan. The plan that you soundly criticized if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 03:26:28 am
I'll say this so we can immediately move on: I'm not actually interested in people's read on Skumpy, because we won't be lynching him today. I'm guessing this will not be controversial, so let's not spend time thinking about it and free Skumpy of the burden of having to worry about what people think of him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 03:27:37 am
Skumpy's other game-related questions are pretty good though, for the DatSwan/RR/XXRaptor of the world. You've certainly already answered some of them, but clarity is always welcome.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 03:37:45 am
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan

So essentially you've given up scumhunting. Ok.

It's also literally my own post that you misquoted that he hated on yesterday from me but loves from you. Just fyi.
Well, yesterday Jake's alignment was still unknown, so obviously this wasn't all that great.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 03:39:46 am
Not trying to be a pain. It just looks like you've abandoned rereading and analyzing things in favor of Galz's master plan. The plan that you soundly criticized if I remember correctly.

Looks can be deceiving. I have townreads on a lot of people. Skumpy and chairs the strongest, chairs and Galzria to some extent. Since I don't have strong scum reads, I think scum is lurking. I wouldn't exactly be surprised by a DatSwan/Xx/RR team, though I expect one of my town reads to be false.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 03:40:30 am
*that should be Andrew and Galzria in the second batch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 03:42:51 am
I'll say this so we can immediately move on: I'm not actually interested in people's read on Skumpy, because we won't be lynching him today. I'm guessing this will not be controversial, so let's not spend time thinking about it and free Skumpy of the burden of having to worry about what people think of him.

Yay, I've made top 8 then! The goal is to be the last person standing correct? I was under the impression we were playing a free-for-all.

Still waiting for RR and XXraptor to post content (not an accusation, you didn't have time that's fine but I'm still waiting), and for DatSwan to answer my question.

That being said, people (Galz, chairs etc.) can feel free to post, can't wait forever.

Well, I am going to keep quiet for a little while, if you don't mind. I need to practice my hush-hush tactics. But I've been working on my narrative against faust, I've got one argument that makes a lot of sense, which I will reveal when ordered to by Teproc or when the triumvirate of taciturnity speaks up more, whichever comes first.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 17, 2017, 09:44:06 am
Definitely if we lynch faust we do.

Definitely ? How so ?

So I wanted to answer this earlier but held off, but I think we've exhausted the "holding off" reasonableness.

If we lynch faust and he is Town:
Knowing who he RB'd N1 gives us one more "could not have committed the kill on that Night" read, which is a -slight- Town bump for that player. We'd also want full reads.

If we lynch faust and he is Scum:
Knowing who he claims to RB N1 gives us more information, even if he tries to WIFOM us with it. We'd still also want full reads.

tl;dr if we believe faust is Town, or if we believe faust is scum, we EITHER WAY want as much information from him as possible before we lynch him (if we are going to do so).

If we believe faust is Town, of course, we probably should just, you know, not lynch him (as he suggested).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 17, 2017, 09:45:42 am
If we believe faust is Town and therefore aren't lynching him then the question becomes should he claim who he RB'd N1 - I think after having had time to think on it that the answer is yes, at least before D3 is out - what if he gets NK'd? That's information Town could use to shape reads that we're missing out on, if he doesn't.

Similarly we should all probably provide -at least- a scum to chum before the Day is out.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 17, 2017, 10:10:45 am
Not sure why we are debating me not claiming my N1 target, that seems stupid.

I targeted Galzria N1. You can see my suspicion of his VT claim - I thought he might be a Flavor Cop knowing that he was blocked and didn't want to have to give me any towncred, or wanted to prevent being blocked again or something. It's still an okay theory, but on second thought it's not as big a deal and there are a number of PR claim option that would not know they have been blocked.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 17, 2017, 12:08:06 pm
Not sure why we are debating me not claiming my N1 target, that seems stupid.

I targeted Galzria N1. You can see my suspicion of his VT claim - I thought he might be a Flavor Cop knowing that he was blocked and didn't want to have to give me any towncred, or wanted to prevent being blocked again or something. It's still an okay theory, but on second thought it's not as big a deal and there are a number of PR claim option that would not know they have been blocked.

That makes sense.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 12:52:46 pm
I'm gonna go reassess TWM and Jake to try and get a better grasp on them.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 12:55:25 pm
I'm gonna go reassess TWM and Jake to try and get a better grasp on them.
Actually, this'll have to wait.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 12:55:47 pm
I'm gonna go reassess TWM and Jake to try and get a better grasp on them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but you are aware that they are both dead, right ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 01:00:38 pm
 faust-"Roleblocker"
DatSwan
Roadrunner7671
AndrewisFTTW
chairs
Skumpy
Galzria
Teproc-"IC"
Raptor

9 Alive, 5 to lynch , 3 scum. One IC. One PR claim.

Raptor, Datswan, chairs and Andrew all fall into the 'flying under the radar' category for me. Since it's not lylo, I could lynch from here.

Galz and Skumpy both had their VT claims. Galz was townie but has progressively been getting more scummy, Skumpy I'm not sure about.

That leaves faust and Teproc. Faust still being here D3 is a little unnerving and suggests (to me) that the scum team has to have some newbies.

This is a problem. The only person I really had a townread on was TWM, so the paranoia stage of mafia is starting to set in.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 01:01:10 pm
I'm gonna go reassess TWM and Jake to try and get a better grasp on them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but you are aware that they are both dead, right ?
Why are they dead? Who helped kill them the most? Who wanted them dead? Those are the things that would be cool to know.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 01:03:26 pm
I haven't claimed anything yet. That was DatSwan you're thinking of.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 02:26:07 pm
I haven't claimed anything yet. That was DatSwan you're thinking of.
Oh, right. You've just been scum read for some reason or another by most people at some point in time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 17, 2017, 03:01:00 pm
There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.
No, there is a 50% chance. Plus, assuming mod 3 isn't active, we can rule out this possibility once we massclaim, so knowing whether you can confirm the blocking would indeed be helpful.

XX has still not express how he feels about your claim. I'm waiting on that. If he wants questions, I'll give him some:

1) So what happened to the Skummy Skumpy read?
2) Why faust and Chairs? They were nowhere to be seen on your radar before.
3) What do you make of the three claims so far (Galz, DatSwan, faust)
4) How do you think mainstream media has affected the music industry?
5) Why did you not want to vote Jake yesterday?
6) If you had to choose 1 and only 1 person to die right now, who would it be and why?

Question for everybody, be honest: On a scale from 1-7, where am I on your skum reads?

1) After/during D1 you dropped on my radar because of what I believe was your original in post; you said something about you being strange and talking too much. My reason for looking at you was you talked to much and seemed to ask to many questions. I STILL thing that there is a strong chance that you are Scum, but you are not top lynch for me. I can go quote the post that changed my mind if you would like.
2) Faust is on my radar because i don't really like his claim. More then anything i guess i didn't understand it. And for Chairs I guess he is just seems Off. I cant put a real reason behind it other then, he just comes off as scummy to me. and after rereading him, its just a me thing.
3) I can see it being a thing.. Galz and Datswan seem to play off of each other in the sense pick-on each other alot. (to hide association??) If these two are tied together i think Faust is. If they are not then the no connection between the three
4) the Mainstream Media has played a roll in the sense that it has pushed those who lean to the right further right and those to the left further left. I think that can be reflected the the music. Depending on the genre of music that you listen too, you are able to see an artist Views through there music. Then there is music that is complete trash and has no real world connection. 
5) I believe that you are referring to me not voting D2 and not the way i cast my vote D1. So I didn't not want to vote him. (sorry for the double-negative). I just was giving him the Benefit of doubt the I guess. If the day was coming to a close i would of had no problem voting him. I also wasn't not online 12 hour prior to the lynch.
6) Only had the choice of one kill it would probably be Galz. I think that his flip would be the most reviling.

Feel free to ask follow-ups!

To me you are a 5 on a 1-7 scale. This is also a strange number to use for a scale because its prime.

PPE
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 17, 2017, 03:38:31 pm
3) was, I assume, about the claims individually, not about a hypothetical Galz/DatSwan/faust scumteam.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 17, 2017, 03:55:17 pm
3) was, I assume, about the claims individually, not about a hypothetical Galz/DatSwan/faust scumteam.

Agreed, but lol on raptor's reaction that it was a question about them being a team.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 17, 2017, 06:20:21 pm
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22


TBF... I was VLA
Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
That's a good point actually. vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 06:34:36 pm
XX, so you know, I picked 7 to refer the number of unknown players (not counting general-you and Teproc). There actually is some method to my madness.

Your answer for 4 is kind of scummy - you're acknowledging that there are divisions in this world that are getting deeper which corresponds very well to the nature of mafia. But I'll let it slide for now. As others have mentioned, not exactly the answer I was hoping for 3. But now that they've mentioned it, I want to Expand a little...

Faust has claimed roleblocker (mod 2). He has explained his reasoning, and I doubt he has any more to add to his thoughts. But yet, other than me and probably Galzria, NOBODY has said if they believe him. Andrew said it was 'effing bad to claim'; that's not saying if you believe it or not. So to EVERYBODY HERE (save faust and Teproc): On a scale from 1 to 5, do you believe faust? If you do not answer this question in your next post, I will be very, very tempted to vote you.

1 = Psssht, what a scumball liar!
2 = I dunno faust, that's a little doubtful. I kinda wanna vote you.
3 = Cross of Elephant + Rhino = Elefino. I'm too scared to be wrong to answer the question.
4 = Sure, I'll take his word for it, I guess.
5 = OK guys, he's clear. Let's promote him to Deputy.

I'll go first: 1

Again, I've had some more thoughts with respect to his claim and reasoning, but I still want to everybody to take a stand on how they feel about faust first. #NewbieTakeover (that felt awful to type, but necessary)

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 17, 2017, 06:59:29 pm
Still waiting for RR and XXraptor to post content (not an accusation, you didn't have time that's fine but I'm still waiting), and for DatSwan to answer my question.


Ok sorry finally have time to do this...

To answer your question about Faust's claim in a nutshell I would say that it did not change my opinion about him all that much...

I had a null-leaning towards skummy feeling on him to start with, and after a PR claim when scum is throwing perfect to start D3 seems like a straightforward scum play.
More importantly (and sorry this is PPE because I have been reading from recent to last), I know you said to ignore the skumpy scum idea for now, but I have to mention that if they were teamed, the "Skumpy I blocked you" claim is a fairly good idea. Who can argue with it? It also does not help us create any progress as town as we analyze something that is just creating confusion.

I know that seems like paranoia - and I know you asked to drop the skumpy thing - so original point... I thought he was null/skummy to start, then he claimed this, now I feel he is more on the skummy side.

Feel free to ask specific questions. I had some IRL stuff going on all day yesterday and up to recent but I will be around for now.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 17, 2017, 07:04:09 pm
To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

OK only interested in the bottom part. What am I missing - how would the Roleblocker KNOW there is a Flavor Cop?

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill. I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill. I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

But if you're a roleblocker, you know there's a flavor cop. So try to block him. And I thought roleblockling doesn't stop kills?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 17, 2017, 07:09:35 pm
Gotta go with a 2 here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 07:12:20 pm
To Datswan's point about the team:

I'd expect there's been some scum self-accusationing happening by now, I just don't know yet who's done it. I don't have any fantastic counters to a Skumpy/faust team, but here's my best one: I'm a newbie, he's a veteran. If I was teamed with him, I would offer to be the fall guy to give him townie cred. I don't know him well, but I highly doubt he'd sacrifice himself when he doesn't know me well and doesn't trust me to take care of business, unless the third member was Galzria or something. He's also been at the top of my suspect list since Night 1 when I caught his slip, but people were more interested in lynching jake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 17, 2017, 07:18:51 pm
Just realized DatSwan quote-failed.

To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

OK only interested in the bottom part. What am I missing - how would the Roleblocker KNOW there is a Flavor Cop?

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill. I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill. I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

But if you're a roleblocker, you know there's a flavor cop. So try to block him. And I thought roleblockling doesn't stop kills?

I assume the question in the middle is yours. Answer: If faust is indeed telling the truth and is a town Roleblocker, than mod 2 is on (in the setup). If mod 2 is on, then scum has a Flavor Cop, and faust would know.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 17, 2017, 08:56:24 pm
Anyone - Andrew reads?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 17, 2017, 09:42:59 pm
A 2 is where I am too, I guess. Maybe a 2.5.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 17, 2017, 10:21:25 pm
XX, so you know, I picked 7 to refer the number of unknown players (not counting general-you and Teproc). There actually is some method to my madness.

Your answer for 4 is kind of scummy - you're acknowledging that there are divisions in this world that are getting deeper which corresponds very well to the nature of mafia. But I'll let it slide for now. As others have mentioned, not exactly the answer I was hoping for 3. But now that they've mentioned it, I want to Expand a little...

Faust has claimed roleblocker (mod 2). He has explained his reasoning, and I doubt he has any more to add to his thoughts. But yet, other than me and probably Galzria, NOBODY has said if they believe him. Andrew said it was 'effing bad to claim'; that's not saying if you believe it or not. So to EVERYBODY HERE (save faust and Teproc): On a scale from 1 to 5, do you believe faust? If you do not answer this question in your next post, I will be very, very tempted to vote you.

1 = Psssht, what a scumball liar!
2 = I dunno faust, that's a little doubtful. I kinda wanna vote you.
3 = Cross of Elephant + Rhino = Elefino. I'm too scared to be wrong to answer the question.
4 = Sure, I'll take his word for it, I guess.
5 = OK guys, he's clear. Let's promote him to Deputy.

I'll go first: 1

Again, I've had some more thoughts with respect to his claim and reasoning, but I still want to everybody to take a stand on how they feel about faust first. #NewbieTakeover (that felt awful to type, but necessary)

Okay that makes sense then.

re 4) Please tell me how you would answer that? Do you think that the Mainstream Media doesn't affect Music culture or it affects it in a positive manner. Ignorance is bliss?

sorry for misunderstanding 3. i had just misread it. I'm not sure how to interpret the Claims. I dont have any previous games to compare it to, so i cant say if it was very early or not. I think it was Strange that DatSwan and Galz claimed VT so early unprovoked or even questioned. I think Galz is more scummy for it, he is experianced and should know better if it was early. Swan may have done it because he thought it was What you are supposed to do? But as for Faust Im about a 1.5 as to his claims.



 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 01:20:13 am
Anyone - Andrew reads?

I said town early. I don't think I'm quite as willing to stand by that as I once was, but even if I go back and take time to try to read him (which I'm not gonna do right now) and find him even more scummy, he's not gonna be my top suspect today. It'd be nice if scum kills him tonight to satisfy my inertia for reading him.

re 4) Please tell me how you would answer that? Do you think that the Mainstream Media doesn't affect Music culture or it affects it in a positive manner. Ignorance is bliss?

I think I phrased the question really badly, but I can't blame you for that. The answer I would've given to the question I was trying to ask would be something like: the age of technology has dulled the senses of the proletariat and significantly reduced the attention spans of the millennial. Now, there is more trash being thrown together by the big corporations to feed the hungry mouths and they're harder at work than ever to not give the people what they want, but tell the people what they want. I would actually argue that this music has become less political than it once was, though as you mentioned, there are plenty of artists and genres who still devote their music to their beliefs. In fairness, I think the end of the Cold War has also contributed to the fall of valuable and meaningful lyricism and songwriting. It'll be interesting to see how the Trump presidency influences the songwriters of today; I do think the left vs right schism will become more apparent, as you said.

So now the game is Jeopardy and you have to tell me what the original question was, because i definitely did not state it correctly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 02:31:44 am
I had a null-leaning towards skummy feeling on him to start with
Why?

and after a PR claim when scum is throwing perfect to start D3 seems like a straightforward scum play.
Why?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 02:34:26 am
The way I see it, the scumsters are joining the wagon here (or express willingness to) after it has been cleared as "safe" by townies. What does scum!me even gain from this claim? It's the scummiest fakeclaim available.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 02:39:08 am
DatSwan, you need to improve your quoting skills ;) I assume you meant to post this:

To clarify:
I didn't lynch Jake.
faust said I was town.
faust said Galzria/DatSwan/Jake was the team (not me)
So he roleblocks me and not Galzria or DatSwan, obviously.
Then he accepts that 'Unfortunately, I'm town', which somehow my voting him and him roleblocking me makes clear to him.

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill. I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill. I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

But if you're a roleblocker, you know there's a flavor cop. So try to block him. And I thought roleblockling doesn't stop kills?
OK only interested in the bottom part. What am I missing - how would the Roleblocker KNOW there is a Flavor Cop?
Look at the setup. The only time we have a town Roleblocker is Modification 2. Mod 2 also adds a Flavor Cop. Thus, I know there is a Flavor Cop.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 18, 2017, 04:21:00 am
Vote Count 3.1

faust (3): Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan
Galzria (1): AndrewisFTTW
DatSwan (1): faust
Not voting (4): Xxraptorslayer96, Roadrunner7671, chairs, Teproc

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 04:40:08 am
So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 18, 2017, 04:41:16 am
So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Would you be cool with lynching Galz?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 04:41:43 am
That was probably a bad argument as inevitably people will claim that it was scum!me's cunning plan to be scumread by literally every player in the game just so that I can make this argument.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 04:42:43 am
So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Would you be cool with lynching Galz?

I mean, it's a better lynch than me, but I'm not particularly fond of it and would prefer to lynch one of Xx/DatSwan by a lot.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 18, 2017, 04:44:49 am
Galz is like right at the middle of my reads, it goes like

Skumpy
chairs

Andrew
Galzria

Roadrunner

Xx
DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 05:02:12 am
ALright.

faust's claim makes perfect sense to me. Skumpy thinks it's scummy for faust to have changed his reads a lot: it is most definitely not, scum is generally more confident and consistent than town.

Galz, surprisingly, seems to find his choice of target scummy, but you would never, never roleblock the scummiest player around if you were trying to block the kill, because that's not the player the scumteam chooses to do the kill. Skumpy is a perfectly viable choice: wouldn't have been mine but if you're having serious doubts about him, it's a great choice eespecially bhecause there's a very real chance it completely clears Skumpy at some point. This setup makes that a bit difficult, but it's possible. It does make Skumpy even townier than he was in any case.

Now, faust is an excellent player, and is very able to do this very credible claim as scum. In fact his frustration might be of the "But I did everything like town!me would have, why doesn't anyone see that ?" variety. Possible, but that's not the vibe I get, and mostly I think faust is town from the whole game.

Oh yeah, I'm done with being cagey with my reads. My lynch pool today is

Andrew
RR
DatSwan
chairs
XXR

With the bottom being the scummiest, roughly. I am pretty convinced Galz is town, as I don't remember him being the type to feign not reading the setup as scum. The Rolestopper thing in particular, but that might not have been rolled... I will say that if there is a Watcher, they should be very confident that Galz is town. This is not an incitation to claim, at all, to be clear, but something to keep in mind if a Watcher does flip at some point.

vote: XXR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 05:03:43 am
Oh, and I thionk XXR is scum mostly through PoE. He's the only player in the game that has never done anything townie, though DatSwan and chairs come pretty close.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 05:04:58 am
Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 18, 2017, 08:57:14 am
I felt like I was contributing so I'm sad to see myself so low on your ratings, there, but yeah I could vote: raptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 18, 2017, 11:58:18 am
Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 12:08:33 pm
Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?

He only knows his own alignment. Everybody else knows at least their own alignment plus his.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 18, 2017, 12:36:22 pm
Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?

He only knows his own alignment. Everybody else knows at least their own alignment plus his.
Okay, I guess that's true.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 12:58:34 pm
I felt like I was contributing so I'm sad to see myself so low on your ratings, there, but yeah I could vote: raptor

I didn't say you weren't contributing, you just haven't given me reasons to think you're town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 01:08:50 pm
So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Yes, but we know much more today then we did yesterday.

ALright.

faust's claim makes perfect sense to me. Skumpy thinks it's scummy for faust to have changed his reads a lot: it is most definitely not, scum is generally more confident and consistent than town.

Galz, surprisingly, seems to find his choice of target scummy, but you would never, never roleblock the scummiest player around if you were trying to block the kill, because that's not the player the scumteam chooses to do the kill. Skumpy is a perfectly viable choice: wouldn't have been mine but if you're having serious doubts about him, it's a great choice eespecially bhecause there's a very real chance it completely clears Skumpy at some point. This setup makes that a bit difficult, but it's possible. It does make Skumpy even townier than he was in any case.

Now, faust is an excellent player, and is very able to do this very credible claim as scum. In fact his frustration might be of the "But I did everything like town!me would have, why doesn't anyone see that ?" variety. Possible, but that's not the vibe I get, and mostly I think faust is town from the whole game.

Oh yeah, I'm done with being cagey with my reads. My lynch pool today is

Andrew
RR
DatSwan
chairs
XXR

With the bottom being the scummiest, roughly. I am pretty convinced Galz is town, as I don't remember him being the type to feign not reading the setup as scum. The Rolestopper thing in particular, but that might not have been rolled... I will say that if there is a Watcher, they should be very confident that Galz is town. This is not an incitation to claim, at all, to be clear, but something to keep in mind if a Watcher does flip at some point.

vote: XXR

I just find it very suspicious that me getting roleblocked leads to "Unfortunately, you're town". If I'm skum team, I'm not making night kills based on who might get tracked/watched, I'm making them based on who has a role that is least important to use tonight. There'd be a 1/3 chance I'm a flavor cop (if we believe faust), in which case, there's no way I' d commit the kill. And scum isn't trying to get a clean sweep, they're trying to win. If that means potentially throwing their scummiest player under the bus, then why not? Faust roleblockling Galzria does nothing, for instance, to convince me Galzria's more town. I don't need to be more cleared and it will absolutely never 'completely clear me'. And yes, I think it's very scummy to block me over DatSwan, based on faust's posts yesterday.


Since everybody's chimed in well enough to their faust reads, here's my theory.

First off, looking back at it, obviously I was roleblocked. If faust is town, then he's not lying. If he's scum, then that means mod 1 is on and mod 2 is off (otherwise, he wouldn't claim it), meaning there's no flavor cop, meaning scum wouldn't know anything about my role. That means if they falsely claim to roleblock me and I was a PR who challenged him, then I would instantly call him out. faust may walk the walk and talk the talk, but he's not winning a WIFOM against me. It could be that mod 3, 4, 5 are all off, but that's quite unlikely to be the case. But it's still important for me to tell everybody if I know if I was indeed roleblocked, he says. That's not true whatsoever.

So if faust is scum, that means scum knows there's a doctor. It's also a small point in favor of Teproc not dying yet, but the 1-shot commuter is probably a bigger factor even if I am correct. Scum wants to kill TWM (Teproc's a risk). As I said before, that doesn't seem odd to me - nobody except XX has seriously accused him, and maybe his reads are good enough that he's considered a threat.

Let's assume that Galzria and Datswan are not town PR's lying to hide their roles (it's a possibility, but I hope not). So let's make the scum team faust/Galzria/Datswan to give scum minimum information possible about town PR's. Now TWM's getting killed and scum knows there's a doctor in one of Andrew/Chairs/RR/XX/Skumpy. Of those 5, if they were a doctor, which of those 5 would be most likely to heal TWM? Correct. So I get roleblocked.

I'd guess that mod 3 is probably off based on this. Otherwise, Rolestopping TWM would've taken care of both possibilities of healing and watching him (also, no watcher information this game yet), though it's not crazy to both Rolestop TWM and roleblock me, especially if I was tracker.

Which I why I'd also guess that mod 4 is on. Otherwise, I don't see why faust would come out and admit to roleblocking me unless he knew there was a chance someone would catch him, and with me, Galzria, and TWM starting to throw suspicion his way, he's a good candidate for the tracker's target.

I'm not sure about mod 5. I'd lean slightly towards on just to a) deny faust a very believable claim and b) try to add some credibility to roleblockling me.


It's my theory against his "I decided you were scum because you didn't vote Jake and you OMGUS'ed even though literally everybody had been willing to vote for an innocent person, and now that you've been roleblocked once, I'm now absolutely convinced you're town".


Now onto a post about the Teproc-on-XX vote! Hold tight!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 01:14:47 pm
As I've said, XX is obviously not my top choice for today but he's up there. I can try reading back and seeing if what he's done strikes me more on the scum or the tentative-newbie side.

Two concerns I have about the lynch that occur to me (I haven't thought through it enough yet to consider more pros and cons)

1. Everybody's going to accuse him because he hasn't done anything townie, like they did with Jake yesterday (and like how I started with faust, sure, but that's not important right now).

2. If faust and I are both town, as Teproc believes, then there were 5 town voting for another 1. Then what's the reasoning behind a 5-2 vote on day 1 and XX voting for Robz?

Still, there's a lot against him. I think it's the wrong choice for today, but what do I know, I'm not going to say anybody's a bad lynch now that TWM has moved onto the next life.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 18, 2017, 01:35:59 pm
Kinda disappointed Teproc, I personally feel very strongly about Galz and faust. xx isn't the worst lynch I guess.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 01:44:56 pm
I don't dictate the lynch. If you want to lynch Galzria, you can do so: it certainly didn't end up stopping anyone on day 2, and just because I was right once doesn't mean I'm right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 01:49:18 pm
Galzria and DatSwan lying as town is not a possibility worth considering.

Yes, the possible existence (definite existence in the town!faust scenario) of mafia PRs would be a reason for scum!you not to do the kill, Skumpy. It means that you don't get entirely cleared, but you still are generally more likely to do the kill than anyone else if you're scum, on N2.

A whole wagon being town is not particularly improbable. I mean statistically it is, but not disproportionately so I think.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 06:06:42 pm
Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:14:25 pm
Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 06:22:41 pm
Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

I thought about this, but the problem is scum could claim Doctor if mod 1 is off, and we don't even get any WIFOM out of it. I'm not going to shut it down completely right now though.

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

As I've said before, I don't see an explanation for how he would lie about roleblockling me, be he scum or town. Town, he tells the truth. Scum, there's no Flavor Cop, he doesn't know if I'm a PR, so if my role was to succeed and I know he's lying, he's busted.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:29:54 pm
It's pretty easy: scum!faust knows the setup. if this setup doesn't have a Tracker or a Watcher, he can claim whatever the hell he wants.

If there is one of those two, it's likely that faust did target you last night, and most likely that means he's a roleblocker of either alignment.

But it doesn't add up to "well if someone claims Doctor we can confirm faust as town". Because
a) Scum can fakeclaim Doctor.
b) We can't know if faust did roleblock you last night.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:31:48 pm
To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 06:41:52 pm
Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

If you believe Skumpy is town, then we do. Or at least that he was in fact blocked. He has said that he knows he was. In fact, regardless of Skumpy's alignment he probably was. Look at how he entered today! It's possible him and Faust are scum together and the whole set of interactions were planned... but as I think Skumpy is town I don't see that as likely.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 06:45:39 pm
To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?

It's literally the same play I made in M100 as scum and carried to a 4 consecutive day mislynch to win for scum.

It's the beauty of the claim. It works perfectly from a town or scum perspective  regardless of alignment I believe Faust is telling the truth.

I simply believe he's scum, not town. I'll detail the read further when I get home - but I've done so previously already.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:47:36 pm
Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

If you believe Skumpy is town, then we do. Or at least that he was in fact blocked. He has said that he knows he was. In fact, regardless of Skumpy's alignment he probably was. Look at how he entered today! It's possible him and Faust are scum together and the whole set of interactions were planned... but as I think Skumpy is town I don't see that as likely.

Um, what ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:49:20 pm
You've detailed your reasoning and it included notions about who to roleblock which I think ar completely wrong.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:52:15 pm
To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?

It's literally the same play I made in M100 as scum and carried to a 4 consecutive day mislynch to win for scum.

It's the beauty of the claim. It works perfectly from a town or scum perspective  regardless of alignment I believe Faust is telling the truth.

I simply believe he's scum, not town. I'll detail the read further when I get home - but I've done so previously already.

It shouldn't have though. You should have lost at lylo. My problem here is that there was no urgency for faust to claim.

If you want to look at your play, faust claims makes sense in exactly the same way that yours does. In that it doesn't, it's a terrible play, and terrible plays are townie.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 06:59:40 pm
I'm not actually interested in this discussion. Unless I missed skumpy saying he could confirm the roleblocking - and I'm pretty sure I didn't - there's no reason for a Doctor to claim.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:01:43 pm
Now if you want to explain why faust is scum, great, I'm listening, but you won't convince me that the claim is scummy,find something else.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 07:02:53 pm
So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Yes, but we know much more today then we did yesterday.

ALright.

faust's claim makes perfect sense to me. Skumpy thinks it's scummy for faust to have changed his reads a lot: it is most definitely not, scum is generally more confident and consistent than town.

Galz, surprisingly, seems to find his choice of target scummy, but you would never, never roleblock the scummiest player around if you were trying to block the kill, because that's not the player the scumteam chooses to do the kill. Skumpy is a perfectly viable choice: wouldn't have been mine but if you're having serious doubts about him, it's a great choice eespecially bhecause there's a very real chance it completely clears Skumpy at some point. This setup makes that a bit difficult, but it's possible. It does make Skumpy even townier than he was in any case.

Now, faust is an excellent player, and is very able to do this very credible claim as scum. In fact his frustration might be of the "But I did everything like town!me would have, why doesn't anyone see that ?" variety. Possible, but that's not the vibe I get, and mostly I think faust is town from the whole game.

Oh yeah, I'm done with being cagey with my reads. My lynch pool today is

Andrew
RR
DatSwan
chairs
XXR

With the bottom being the scummiest, roughly. I am pretty convinced Galz is town, as I don't remember him being the type to feign not reading the setup as scum. The Rolestopper thing in particular, but that might not have been rolled... I will say that if there is a Watcher, they should be very confident that Galz is town. This is not an incitation to claim, at all, to be clear, but something to keep in mind if a Watcher does flip at some point.

vote: XXR

I just find it very suspicious that me getting roleblocked leads to "Unfortunately, you're town". If I'm skum team, I'm not making night kills based on who might get tracked/watched, I'm making them based on who has a role that is least important to use tonight. There'd be a 1/3 chance I'm a flavor cop (if we believe faust), in which case, there's no way I' d commit the kill. And scum isn't trying to get a clean sweep, they're trying to win. If that means potentially throwing their scummiest player under the bus, then why not? Faust roleblockling Galzria does nothing, for instance, to convince me Galzria's more town. I don't need to be more cleared and it will absolutely never 'completely clear me'. And yes, I think it's very scummy to block me over DatSwan, based on faust's posts yesterday.


Since everybody's chimed in well enough to their faust reads, here's my theory.

First off, looking back at it, obviously I was roleblocked. If faust is town, then he's not lying. If he's scum, then that means mod 1 is on and mod 2 is off (otherwise, he wouldn't claim it), meaning there's no flavor cop, meaning scum wouldn't know anything about my role. That means if they falsely claim to roleblock me and I was a PR who challenged him, then I would instantly call him out. faust may walk the walk and talk the talk, but he's not winning a WIFOM against me. It could be that mod 3, 4, 5 are all off, but that's quite unlikely to be the case. But it's still important for me to tell everybody if I know if I was indeed roleblocked, he says. That's not true whatsoever.

So if faust is scum, that means scum knows there's a doctor. It's also a small point in favor of Teproc not dying yet, but the 1-shot commuter is probably a bigger factor even if I am correct. Scum wants to kill TWM (Teproc's a risk). As I said before, that doesn't seem odd to me - nobody except XX has seriously accused him, and maybe his reads are good enough that he's considered a threat.

Let's assume that Galzria and Datswan are not town PR's lying to hide their roles (it's a possibility, but I hope not). So let's make the scum team faust/Galzria/Datswan to give scum minimum information possible about town PR's. Now TWM's getting killed and scum knows there's a doctor in one of Andrew/Chairs/RR/XX/Skumpy. Of those 5, if they were a doctor, which of those 5 would be most likely to heal TWM? Correct. So I get roleblocked.

I'd guess that mod 3 is probably off based on this. Otherwise, Rolestopping TWM would've taken care of both possibilities of healing and watching him (also, no watcher information this game yet), though it's not crazy to both Rolestop TWM and roleblock me, especially if I was tracker.

Which I why I'd also guess that mod 4 is on. Otherwise, I don't see why faust would come out and admit to roleblocking me unless he knew there was a chance someone would catch him, and with me, Galzria, and TWM starting to throw suspicion his way, he's a good candidate for the tracker's target.

I'm not sure about mod 5. I'd lean slightly towards on just to a) deny faust a very believable claim and b) try to add some credibility to roleblockling me.


It's my theory against his "I decided you were scum because you didn't vote Jake and you OMGUS'ed even though literally everybody had been willing to vote for an innocent person, and now that you've been roleblocked once, I'm now absolutely convinced you're town".


Now onto a post about the Teproc-on-XX vote! Hold tight!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:06:43 pm
Well, when I specifically asked skumpy to say something he didn't, so I took this as a more general "faust is probably a roleblocker of either alignment" thing. But Skumpy can clarify that now, please ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:08:17 pm
While I think of it: Skumpy, I assume from your reaction that you have nothing to says that infirms faust having roleblocked you ? That is, either you're a VT and have no idea either way or you're a PR who has no way of knowing whether or not your action went through. I'll take silence as a yes, but I just want to be sure you took this into consideration, since you're new.

And I will assume you're not asking me to claim. If you want me to claim, I can. Frankly, I don't see why this matters. If he's town, he's telling the truth. If he's scum, he knows mod 2 is off, so he claims it. There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.

This is what I'm referring to.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:13:57 pm
You've detailed your reasoning and it included notions about who to roleblock which I think ar completely wrong.

I assume this is directed to me: If you were scum and you had a roleblocker, what would you do? Maybe I'm just looking too hard for a narrative against faust, but I think my logic is much more sound than 'I roleblocked you. OK, you're clean!' Give me a better strategy than roleblock-the-guy-most-likely-to-save-or-watch-TWM-who-also-hasn't-claimed-a-role.

To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?

He claimed when I threatened him with information against him which I didn't expect him to believe. Maybe he thought I was watcher or tracker and saw night 1 that he was a PR, and thought it would raise more suspicion if he didn't claim yet. If someone said to me 'I know you're a PR', I would make them spill the beans first before I confirm it. I didn't see him indicate he was planning on claiming, but it'd be strange for him to criticize Galzria for doing it yesterday and then do it himself today.

I never said I knew for an absolute fact he blocked me, I said I'm pretty damn sure he blocked me because there's no reason for him to lie or to risk lying. Again, give me an explanation for why he would lie about roleblockling me as scum. There's a 87.5% chance we have either a watcher/tracker/UB-turned-Cop. Since I don't believe there's a flavor cop, I don't think he can risk claiming to block me without knowing my role. If he's wrong, he's dead meat.

PPE: A Lot
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:18:07 pm
Yes, I mean I believe he is a roleblocker, and he is either Town mod 2 or Scum mod 1. I believed he was scum before, and claiming roleblocker has not influenced my belief, other than the fact that I was the target. I have said a lot against him this entire game, both before and after the claim.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:24:24 pm
Galz: as a scum RB, would you have targeted skumpy ? I know I wouldn't have.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:26:11 pm
No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

I don't see why faust would think you hav info there, he even refers to the fact that you suspctd him before.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:28:34 pm
No, this post.

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

That's very kind of you to say. It doesn't really convince me about anything, but kind nonetheless. In the meantime, I would suggest claiming your role before I present more evidence against you.

So essentially, it's because faust's read on you changed dramatically ?

That and the other 2 things I said in the exact same post. I said yesterday I thought it was either him or Jake. I voted for him then, and nothing's changed my mind since.


I agree with Chairs .... I was not expecting faust to take my threat seriously and immediately claim, which is very odd to me.

I mentioned twice on day 2 that I had picked up on something nobody else had. This is what it was.

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.

Which is strange because the flavor name is Good Memory, not Good Memories, as faust incorrectly stated. If you were a VT and you saw in your QT 'Good Memory' in giant green letters, you're not going to forget it. Obviously, he could be a PR, but there were only 2.5 expected PRs for town, versus 3 for scum. The odds were against him, and I'm very sorry I didn't get a chance to point this out yesterday and maybe save Jake. Sadly, it does us no good today.

faust, who did you roleblock night 1?


PPE: For Teproc: I apologize, I apparently did not ask enough questions ;) At least I'm not the only who didn't get it, I thought they were the same. Still does not in any shape or form justify faust roleblockling (that's autocorrected: I'm keeping it cause I like the term), and his response makes no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:30:51 pm
I don't know how any of this indicates that scum could hav been worried you had a result on him ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:31:06 pm
scum!faust*
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:39:41 pm
I said 'claim your role, I have evidence against you'. Which he instantly did. That's all the facts. The question is now, as you said before, "Why would he claim then and there?" Note he didn't claim in his first post like Galzria did on day 2. If you think he was going to claim early on just to clear me: first off, I don't care what you say, roleblocker is not the role that should be clearing people, especially with 3 scum alive. I didn't need or want clearing, I didn't get any votes day 2, and nobody suspected me except XX and apparently faust suddenly. I think he should have been more worried about keeping his own role hidden so he's not a target.

For the record, I suspect XX and faust are teamed together, and your lynch today could be correct, and if needed, I can switch to XX. I'm happy to unvote for now to keep options open, but my vote is hovering dangerously close to faust's head still.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 07:46:24 pm
Faust "cleared" Skumpy on the following opinion:

"I know you didn't perform the kill, so I you're town."

First: That logic simply has no validity. The kill could've come from 3 locations. The fact that Skumpy didn't do it DOESN'T clear him or make him town.

Second: Skumpy is, regardless of alignment, almost certainly a PR. The likelihood that, as scum, he performed the kill is probably even less than 1/3 - PR's gonna PR, Goon's gonna Goon.

Third: Combining the two above - the likelihood that blocking Skumpy told Faust absolutely anything about Skumpy's alignment is next to nothing. Yet "Unfortunately, you are town."
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:50:20 pm
Your "evidence" post was not meant to i dicate night action evidence right ? I didnt thi k so and dont see why he would.

I gzt that you don't think targeting you made sense for a town RB but you are simply wrong on this. It made perfevt sesne, and if faust is scum that's why he claimed it.

Ppe: well i disageee with literally everything in this post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 07:52:11 pm
Your "evidence" post was not meant to i dicate night action evidence right ? I didnt thi k so and dont see why he would.

I gzt that you don't think targeting you made sense for a town RB but you are simply wrong on this. It made perfevt sesne, and if faust is scum that's why he claimed it.

Ppe: well i disageee with literally everything in this post.

I don't get how you disagree with it.  Skumpy is a PR. If scum he was the LEAST likely person to perform the kill.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:53:09 pm
I don't get how you disagree with it.  Skumpy is a PR. If scum he was the LEAST likely person to perform the kill.

Why am I a PR again?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:53:41 pm
When faust claimed to have blocked skumpy, I wrote something in my QT something to the effect of "well tjat basically ckear skumpy". It doesnt matter if I'm wrong actually, its sufficient to prive thag tiwn can rhink tbat so move on from that freakinf point because it doesnt hold water for the uptenth freaking time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:55:07 pm
Hate phoneposting so much
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 18, 2017, 07:55:32 pm
When faust claimed to have blocked skumpy, I wrote something in my QT something to the effect of "well tjat basically ckear skumpy". It doesnt matter if I'm wrong actually, its sufficient to prive thag tiwn can rhink tbat so move on from that freakinf point because it doesnt hold water for the uptenth freaking time.

It's TWM's job to drink, not yours.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:56:50 pm
Anyway I've bee  working under the assumption that skumpy was a VT from d1 and assumed sxum was too. I truly dont understand how youre plauing this game Galz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 07:57:15 pm
When faust claimed to have blocked skumpy, I wrote something in my QT something to the effect of "well tjat basically ckear skumpy". It doesnt matter if I'm wrong actually, its sufficient to prive thag tiwn can rhink tbat so move on from that freakinf point because it doesnt hold water for the uptenth freaking time.

It's a horribly invalid opinion though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 07:58:46 pm
IT DOESNT MATTER. TOWN IS WRONG ALL THE FREAKING TIME. you know that. Come on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 07:59:04 pm
Anyway I've bee  working under the assumption that skumpy was a VT from d1 and assumed sxum was too. I truly dont understand how youre plauing this game Galz.

Almost all of Skumpy's posts have indicated he's had some sort of information.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:00:37 pm
Anyway I've bee  working under the assumption that skumpy was a VT from d1 and assumed sxum was too. I truly dont understand how youre plauing this game Galz.

Almost all of Skumpy's posts have indicated he's had some sort of information.

If skumpy opened d1 like he did as a PR, I dont understand anything about mafia at all.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:00:59 pm
IT DOESNT MATTER. TOWN IS WRONG ALL THE FREAKING TIME. you know that. Come on.

Sure. But there's a huge difference between "Unfortunately I think you're town", and "Unfortunately, you're town".

I don't see how blocking somebody, and seeing a kill goes through, leads to the latter post and not the former.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:01:47 pm
IT DOESNT MATTER. TOWN IS WRONG ALL THE FREAKING TIME. you know that. Come on.

Sure. But there's a huge difference between "Unfortunately I think you're town", and "Unfortunately, you're town".

I don't see how blocking somebody, and seeing a kill goes through, leads to the latter post and not the former.

There really isn't.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:02:54 pm
Anyway I've bee  working under the assumption that skumpy was a VT from d1 and assumed sxum was too. I truly dont understand how youre plauing this game Galz.

Almost all of Skumpy's posts have indicated he's had some sort of information.

If skumpy opened d1 like he did as a PR, I dont understand anything about mafia at all.

I'm looking expressly at today, when he claimed to have informant on or relating to Faust - as well as knowledge of the likelihood he was blocked (although I'm gathering now that's simply speciation and not actual knowledge. His posts earlier suggested otherwise).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:04:12 pm
This is pointless  the freaking apathetic townies need to wake the hell up and do somehting, becaus talking in circles about fausts claim gets us nowheee.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:09:43 pm
Her's what I think is happening:

Galz's play makes no sense to me. Scum!Galz wouldn't let that happen, therefore he is town.
Skumpy is town.
TWM was town.
faust is probably town, his play also doesn't make a lot of sense and scum!faust also wouldn't let that happen.

Meanwhile, scum is laughing their asses off in the background, watching town self-destruct. Let's lynch them. We're not getting anywhere, and we haven't been, because scum has not had to do anything in this game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:12:21 pm
Whether Skumpy is PR or VT doesn't actually matter right now. What matter is that your cases on faust are terrible. faust might very well be scum ! But the fact that no one has been able to put forth a single convincing argument for that (convincing to me that is) indicated to me that there is nothing there. So we're stuck in a situation where both main wagons and all that anyone is discussing is town. AGAIN. Let's stop that and lynch a freaking lurker scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:14:40 pm
Look, I've said before I think there's 2 in {Faust, Chairs, RR, Raptor} and 1 in {Andrew, Datswan}.

For the first group, I think it goes Faust -> RR -> Chairs -> Raptor. RR/Chairs are interchangeable, the others are miles apart.

DatSwan and Andrew could be 50/50. DatSwan has ignored me when I've pushed him, Andrew has fought back. This would make me lean DatSwan, but I'm told Andrew reacts far more aggressively as scum than town.

I'll vote wherever you want each and every day, but I'll stand by it being a mistake to not lynch Faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:15:33 pm
Whether Skumpy is PR or VT doesn't actually matter right now. What matter is that your cases on faust are terrible. faust might very well be scum ! But the fact that no one has been able to put forth a single convincing argument for that (convincing to me that is) indicated to me that there is nothing there. So we're stuck in a situation where both main wagons and all that anyone is discussing is town. AGAIN. Let's stop that and lynch a freaking lurker scum.

I think both Skumpy and I have put forth well above average cases on multiple points and you've disregarded all of them.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:16:06 pm
unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:17:56 pm
Where would you like to lynch?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:22:17 pm
Whether Skumpy is PR or VT doesn't actually matter right now. What matter is that your cases on faust are terrible. faust might very well be scum ! But the fact that no one has been able to put forth a single convincing argument for that (convincing to me that is) indicated to me that there is nothing there. So we're stuck in a situation where both main wagons and all that anyone is discussing is town. AGAIN. Let's stop that and lynch a freaking lurker scum.

I think both Skumpy and I have put forth well above average cases on multiple points and you've disregarded all of them.

And you've disregarded my arguments against them.

If I were a town!roleblocker, I'd have targeted someone like Skumpy in faust's place.
"Unfortunately you're town" is not something that means "Unfortunately I have 100% you're town" and it is beyond crazy to me that you're arguing that.
You think Skumpy has been saying he's a PR, I think he's been screaming he's a VT. One of us is very wrong, but in any case it means it's hard to say with certainty what scum must think. That they killed TWM is an indication that they thought SKumpy (who was more obvtown than TWM, who had just driven a mislynch and could theoretically have been suspected for that) was not a PR. If I were scum, I would absolutely not have roleblocked Skumpy, not in a million years.

What else is there again ? faust claiming when he did is like you in M100 ? Maybe. I think it's a weird move and weird means town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:23:17 pm
Where would you like to lynch?

Among {XXr, DatSwan, RR, chairs}

I think Andrew did townie stuff today. ANd I think he's actually more agressive as town btw, but I'm not necessarily up to date on Andrew meta.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:27:15 pm
And the problem is whoever you pick out of that I'll be less inclined just because you'r epicking them. Really I think XXR is the safest pick. Mostly I want the other people in this game to decide who they want in there.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 18, 2017, 08:30:03 pm
I apologize for the "yelling", this game has been frustrating for me because being an IC sucks. With that, I'm going to sleep.

DatSwan, XXR, RR : if you're town, now is the time to panic and go "Oh no, town is going to lose because of me." Because that's what's happening. If it means you all agree that I'm wrong and faust is scum, so be it, maybe I am wrong. But you need to do more. You signed up to play this game, not to spectate me getting annoyed at Galzria./
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 18, 2017, 08:35:07 pm
Where would you like to lynch?

Among {XXr, DatSwan, RR, chairs}

I think Andrew did townie stuff today. ANd I think he's actually more agressive as town btw, but I'm not necessarily up to date on Andrew meta.

I'm not up to date on my meta either, and I don't think anyone told Galz that I'm more aggressive as town, at least not in this game. Earlier TWM said I went after mcmc hard as scum in a previous game but that's it.

ANYWAY, I understand why you wouldn't want to lynch faust and I don't really have a case against faust. I just have some interactions between him and Galz that would lead me to suspect faust if Galz flips scum.

But I disagree with your assessment that Galz wouldn't be posting the way he has been if he were scum. I think he himself would disagree with that statement.

I'd like XX, but I wont vote for skumpy or DatSwan today.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:36:49 pm
And the problem is whoever you pick out of that I'll be less inclined just because you'r epicking them. Really I think XXR is the safest pick. Mostly I want the other people in this game to decide who they want in there.

That logic doesn't follow.

Regardless, I don't care which of the 3 not!Faust in that group we lynch. Each has a equally valid case against them.

Look, I get the frustration with the lurkers. They aren't all scum and the town one's need to step it the hell up. I really do get that. And I do believe you're correct that the majority of scum are sitting back laughing their assess off at us.

But I also believe there's 2 scum in {Andrew, Datswan, Chairs, RR, Raptor}, not 3. And 2/5 chance to hit the scum amongst them doesn't sound fantastic to me. That said, disregarding Faust who I obviously won't convince you is scum, at least there ARE 2/5 we can possibly agree on.

But since it seems whoever I might prefer is the one that'll be lowest on your list, I'll just check back in to see who you want my vote on from now on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 08:47:20 pm
Where would you like to lynch?

Among {XXr, DatSwan, RR, chairs}

I think Andrew did townie stuff today. ANd I think he's actually more agressive as town btw, but I'm not necessarily up to date on Andrew meta.

I'm not up to date on my meta either, and I don't think anyone told Galz that I'm more aggressive as town, at least not in this game. Earlier TWM said I went after mcmc hard as scum in a previous game but that's it.

ANYWAY, I understand why you wouldn't want to lynch faust and I don't really have a case against faust. I just have some interactions between him and Galz that would lead me to suspect faust if Galz flips scum.

But I disagree with your assessment that Galz wouldn't be posting the way he has been if he were scum. I think he himself would disagree with that statement.

I'd like XX, but I wont vote for skumpy or DatSwan today.

The TWM post is what I was referring to, yes.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2017, 09:09:08 pm
Baaa.

vote: Raptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 18, 2017, 11:52:21 pm
Alright, it's too late now, but it's time to get on a computer at some point.


How do you analyze interactions of dead town? Can we gain anything by analyzing TWM interactions?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 01:22:27 am
Hypothetical... XXR goes to the rope... are we thinking two vets with him? What is the likelihood that someone like Galz and/or Andrew are bussing him st this point?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 19, 2017, 01:27:57 am
First wagon! yikes!

In other news ill be VLA for pretty much the next 96 hours. Im going to try to respond to as many things as i can right now. so if you have any questions for me, please ask within the next hour or so.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 19, 2017, 01:37:26 am
As I've said, XX is obviously not my top choice for today but he's up there. I can try reading back and seeing if what he's done strikes me more on the scum or the tentative-newbie side.

Two concerns I have about the lynch that occur to me (I haven't thought through it enough yet to consider more pros and cons)

1. Everybody's going to accuse him because he hasn't done anything townie, like they did with Jake yesterday (and like how I started with faust, sure, but that's not important right now).

2. If faust and I are both town, as Teproc believes, then there were 5 town voting for another 1. Then what's the reasoning behind a 5-2 vote on day 1 and XX voting for Robz?

Still, there's a lot against him. I think it's the wrong choice for today, but what do I know, I'm not going to say anybody's a bad lynch now that TWM has moved onto the next life.

Can you or anyone define "anything townie"? I understand my inactivity beng a reason to lynch but i dont understand the reasoning i guess. 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 19, 2017, 02:24:32 am
Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 02:41:08 am
Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.


I would like right now to say that I DO NOT think XXR is skum at this point. My question previously was just based on the rest of the context. We should be careful about wagoning more on this just because of VLA.
Also - Townies - as of right now we are getting our asses kicked. The more time the better in the day. Let's communicate about votes but keep a close eye on counts.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 19, 2017, 03:02:46 am
Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.


I would like right now to say that I DO NOT think XXR is skum at this point. My question previously was just based on the rest of the context. We should be careful about wagoning more on this just because of VLA.
Also - Townies - as of right now we are getting our asses kicked. The more time the better in the day. Let's communicate about votes but keep a close eye on counts.

I agree, lynching now is a bad idea (unless it's faust). But we can't just assume that he's town because he's gone; VLA hurts, and there isn't a lot of evidence supporting him.

I don't think he's currently being bussed, but I could be wrong obviously. Galz's statement to vote where Teproc does doesn't strike me particularly townie or scummy, but it's basically saying "Teproc, game's in your hands now". And while I sympathize and kinda want to do the same, Teproc's made some bad reads this game, in my opinion (mostly, making me his first target). I don't know about chairs - all he's done this game is wagon. People say he's an easy scum read typically, I don't know how I feel about him.

DatSwan, why do you think XX is town? Also, Galz said that because of his personality, he doesn't think he's scum. I don't know how well you know him, but does that sound right to you?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 03:11:45 am
I said 'claim your role, I have evidence against you'. Which he instantly did. That's all the facts. The question is now, as you said before, "Why would he claim then and there?" Note he didn't claim in his first post like Galzria did on day 2. If you think he was going to claim early on just to clear me: first off, I don't care what you say, roleblocker is not the role that should be clearing people, especially with 3 scum alive. I didn't need or want clearing, I didn't get any votes day 2, and nobody suspected me except XX and apparently faust suddenly. I think he should have been more worried about keeping his own role hidden so he's not a target.

For the record, I suspect XX and faust are teamed together, and your lynch today could be correct, and if needed, I can switch to XX. I'm happy to unvote for now to keep options open, but my vote is hovering dangerously close to faust's head still.

Two very technical questions:

1) Does this count as an "unvote"?
2) If you have a vote on someone, can you simply "vote" (using correct format of course) for someone else? Or must you first "unvote".

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 03:13:02 am
nvm, ignore my noobishness.... i just tried something crazy and re-read the rules :P
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 03:16:13 am


I agree, lynching now is a bad idea (unless it's faust). But we can't just assume that he's town because he's gone; VLA hurts, and there isn't a lot of evidence supporting him.

I don't think he's currently being bussed, but I could be wrong obviously. Galz's statement to vote where Teproc does doesn't strike me particularly townie or scummy, but it's basically saying "Teproc, game's in your hands now". And while I sympathize and kinda want to do the same, Teproc's made some bad reads this game, in my opinion (mostly, making me his first target). I don't know about chairs - all he's done this game is wagon. People say he's an easy scum read typically, I don't know how I feel about him.

DatSwan, why do you think XX is town? Also, Galz said that because of his personality, he doesn't think he's scum. I don't know how well you know him, but does that sound right to you?

I don't know how to answer this. I trust that if Galz had an opinion and shared it then that means it is fine to do, but I would like some outside confirmation. I just mean I do not want to give IRL input in game if I am not supposed to.

Furthermore - looking for a IC opinion here - if it is in fact OK - should I give it?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 04:03:33 am
OK - officially here and ready to be helpful - had to do some re reading.. I don't want to post like ALLL reasoning because it would be a novel, but in a nutshell:

         Town:
Teproc - IDK, call it a guy feeling :P
Me - As previously claimed.. VT

         Null-Leaning-Towards-Town:
Galz - Being too helpful for me to say any sort of a lynch would be a good idea at this point.
XXR - My whole thing so far has been sitting back and observing based on the idea I would say something noobish or stupid that hurt my fellow townies (it has been made clear I need to switch this up, I get it). I just read the same noobish vibe here from XXR.
Andrew - Vote history and overall interaction.

        Null-Leaning-Towards-Skum:
RoadRunner - Too quite. 1 out of 2 to lynch town twice.
Charis - Too quiet. 1 out of 2 to lynch town twice.
**Note - I am aware that Galz also voted Lynched Town twice, but we all saw the timestamps on that**
Skumpy - I am not saying Skum. But if I had to pick one of the new players to be the "coached mafia" it would be him.

        Skum
Faust - Currently on me. Voted town lynch day 1. Was the only one voted Skumpy, who I believe to be coached skum, Day 2.


If Skumpy were to flip Town - Faust would move onto my "lean towards town list"
If Skumpy were to flip Skum - I would be looking right at Faust-RR-Chairs
If Chairs or RR were to flip Town - The other would move into my "for sure skum list"
If Faust were to flip Town - I would be confused, but I would be looking at RR-Chairs and then re-evaluate Skumpy.
If XXR flipped Skum - I would would be looking Faust-RR-Chairs
If Galz were to flip Skum - XXR would be Town IMO and Skumpy would have to go.

And as I am typing the rest of this out I realize it could all be changed based on who skum kills that night so I will just leave it be.


End of story - Chairs and RR have two lynches each under them. We should look more into that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 19, 2017, 04:57:52 am

DatSwan, XXR, RR : if you're town, now is the time to panic and go "Oh no, town is going to lose because of me." Because that's what's happening. If it means you all agree that I'm wrong and faust is scum, so be it, maybe I am wrong. But you need to do more. You signed up to play this game, not to spectate me getting annoyed at Galzria./

I dropped the ball..

Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.
I hate to Blame experience for my no content vote on Robz D-1 but i guess he just didn't sit right with me compared to Jake.

Sorry for the Short notice of my absence. I will try to get online if possible. I understand how un-opportune the timing is..
Current feelings-
Teproc - town
Andrew - town
RR - town?
Datswan - town?
Galz -scum?
Chairs- Scum?
Skumpy- scum
Vote: Faust   -scum
I do not believe his claim. The only reason to lie would be scum right?

If I am still around for the Deadline, i will catch up on reads and re assess my vote. If I am not then Goodluck fellow town! We will need it. It was a great first game, thanks for having me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 19, 2017, 04:59:25 am
regardless of alignment I believe Faust is telling the truth.
So if there's no Doctor you would read me as town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 19, 2017, 05:07:11 am
I will not be able to do much posting today. Luckily, I agree with most that Teproc said (which I suppose is a first).

Galzria is continuing to act as though everyone would play the game the same way he does, when it's clearly untrue (see Teproc's response), so maybe that's not the best way to evaluate things...

I will be back tomorrow or Monday... just keep me alive until then, I at least want to line out how you can still win the game if you do end up lynching me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 19, 2017, 05:21:29 am
I wanted to say that my claim was mostly to give town the information that I am decently sure scum already has. It should be obvious that I didn't claim due to Skumpy's pressure because I already softclaimed (stating that Skumpy is town) before he ever did that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 19, 2017, 05:23:25 am
And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 02:14:26 pm
I think it is time to play the numbers game, or at least think about it guys. Can we create like a LCD type of list of 3 to hang and see where we all stand?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 19, 2017, 02:22:45 pm
And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.

Just from a helping perspective - does anyone agree with this? More importantly in the world where I flip skum (which I won't), what do we learn from that?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 19, 2017, 02:27:40 pm
I think Datswan's assessment of me having 2 lynches is really unfair, especially because they said something about timestps for Galz. I voted for Robz about 4 minutes before the deadline! Jake was bad and should be counted, sure, but it's not like I drove the Robz wagon or even did anything with it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 19, 2017, 02:46:05 pm
Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.


I would like right now to say that I DO NOT think XXR is skum at this point. My question previously was just based on the rest of the context. We should be careful about wagoning more on this just because of VLA.
Also - Townies - as of right now we are getting our asses kicked. The more time the better in the day. Let's communicate about votes but keep a close eye on counts.

I agree, lynching now is a bad idea (unless it's faust). But we can't just assume that he's town because he's gone; VLA hurts, and there isn't a lot of evidence supporting him.

I don't think he's currently being bussed, but I could be wrong obviously. Galz's statement to vote where Teproc does doesn't strike me particularly townie or scummy, but it's basically saying "Teproc, game's in your hands now". And while I sympathize and kinda want to do the same, Teproc's made some bad reads this game, in my opinion (mostly, making me his first target). I don't know about chairs - all he's done this game is wagon. People say he's an easy scum read typically, I don't know how I feel about him.

DatSwan, why do you think XX is town? Also, Galz said that because of his personality, he doesn't think he's scum. I don't know how well you know him, but does that sound right to you?

Where did Galz say that? Because I think that would be super scummy if he did say that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 19, 2017, 03:08:56 pm
And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.

Just from a helping perspective - does anyone agree with this? More importantly in the world where I flip skum (which I won't), what do we learn from that?

As of right now, I don't, especially with XX gone. But maybe I can read back.

Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.


I would like right now to say that I DO NOT think XXR is skum at this point. My question previously was just based on the rest of the context. We should be careful about wagoning more on this just because of VLA.
Also - Townies - as of right now we are getting our asses kicked. The more time the better in the day. Let's communicate about votes but keep a close eye on counts.

I agree, lynching now is a bad idea (unless it's faust). But we can't just assume that he's town because he's gone; VLA hurts, and there isn't a lot of evidence supporting him.

I don't think he's currently being bussed, but I could be wrong obviously. Galz's statement to vote where Teproc does doesn't strike me particularly townie or scummy, but it's basically saying "Teproc, game's in your hands now". And while I sympathize and kinda want to do the same, Teproc's made some bad reads this game, in my opinion (mostly, making me his first target). I don't know about chairs - all he's done this game is wagon. People say he's an easy scum read typically, I don't know how I feel about him.

DatSwan, why do you think XX is town? Also, Galz said that because of his personality, he doesn't think he's scum. I don't know how well you know him, but does that sound right to you?

Where did Galz say that? Because I think that would be super scummy if he did say that.

#1007. If it's a mislynch today and Teproc and I are both still alive tomorrow, I'll let you know right now that I'll be doing the same thing as Galzria is.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 19, 2017, 03:56:40 pm
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 19, 2017, 04:00:37 pm
I'll vote wherever you want each and every day, but I'll stand by it being a mistake to not lynch Faust

Yep. That's scummy alright. And especially since this whole game Galz has been acting the rebel and just doing things like randomly claiming seemingly to throw us off.

Please, let's lynch this dude.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 19, 2017, 05:12:29 pm
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 19, 2017, 05:30:55 pm
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0

You've been anti-town the whole game, and now you're trying to appeal to the IC. I think if I were scum I'd be trying to hunt PRs instead of worrying about the IC for the first couple days which could partly explain why Teproc is still alive, but that's not really a discussion that needs to be had right now. In the meantime however, it would benefit scum to establish that blindly following the IC is not a bad idea, as evidenced by Skumpy's reaction to Galz's post, and thus that might endear the IC to scum and cause them to subsequently townread scum. That's just what it looks like to me right now.

Not sure what me scumhunting has to do with Awaclus or what Awaclus has to do with this game or even why you feel like this is the best way you can help lynch scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 19, 2017, 06:31:50 pm
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0

You've been anti-town the whole game, and now you're trying to appeal to the IC. I think if I were scum I'd be trying to hunt PRs instead of worrying about the IC for the first couple days which could partly explain why Teproc is still alive, but that's not really a discussion that needs to be had right now. In the meantime however, it would benefit scum to establish that blindly following the IC is not a bad idea, as evidenced by Skumpy's reaction to Galz's post, and thus that might endear the IC to scum and cause them to subsequently townread scum. That's just what it looks like to me right now.

Not sure what me scumhunting has to do with Awaclus or what Awaclus has to do with this game or even why you feel like this is the best way you can help lynch scum.

I've already given a crap ton more analysis than almost any other person in this game. Trying to paint me as doing otherwise is about as disingenuous as you could get. I've been actively scum hunting every single day, with multiple points of view and analysis taken into account before and after every turn. What's anti-town (Hi, Awaclus), is tunneling so hard you're blinded to any amount of reason. The fact is Skumpy and I both have made our cases and reads clear at this point. I've been "appealing to the IC" because him and Skumpy are the only two actively engaging in this game and I KNOW he's town. Teproc disagrees with the cases though. Fine. He has every right. If my lynch choice won't be the lynch then I might as well sheep the IC, as all our other reads like up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 19, 2017, 06:58:25 pm
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0

You've been anti-town the whole game, and now you're trying to appeal to the IC. I think if I were scum I'd be trying to hunt PRs instead of worrying about the IC for the first couple days which could partly explain why Teproc is still alive, but that's not really a discussion that needs to be had right now. In the meantime however, it would benefit scum to establish that blindly following the IC is not a bad idea, as evidenced by Skumpy's reaction to Galz's post, and thus that might endear the IC to scum and cause them to subsequently townread scum. That's just what it looks like to me right now.

Not sure what me scumhunting has to do with Awaclus or what Awaclus has to do with this game or even why you feel like this is the best way you can help lynch scum.

I've already given a crap ton more analysis than almost any other person in this game. Trying to paint me as doing otherwise is about as disingenuous as you could get. I've been actively scum hunting every single day, with multiple points of view and analysis taken into account before and after every turn. What's anti-town (Hi, Awaclus), is tunneling so hard you're blinded to any amount of reason. The fact is Skumpy and I both have made our cases and reads clear at this point. I've been "appealing to the IC" because him and Skumpy are the only two actively engaging in this game and I KNOW he's town. Teproc disagrees with the cases though. Fine. He has every right. If my lynch choice won't be the lynch then I might as well sheep the IC, as all our other reads like up.

I never said you weren't posting a ton of analysis and I'm not trying to paint you as not involved. Being involved and posting a lot is not the question here, otherwise we would just be lynching lurkers every game. What I'm trying to say is I think you've been anti-town despite the volume of posts from you and I think if we lynch you you'll flip scum. Call it tunneling if you want, but me pointing out the scummy things you do and pushing for your lynch is not anti-town. Also, no, you, Teproc and Skumpy are NOT the only people who are contributing. Just because you happen to post more than other people doesn't mean other people are not engaged and it certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:16:28 am
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0

You've been anti-town the whole game, and now you're trying to appeal to the IC. I think if I were scum I'd be trying to hunt PRs instead of worrying about the IC for the first couple days which could partly explain why Teproc is still alive, but that's not really a discussion that needs to be had right now. In the meantime however, it would benefit scum to establish that blindly following the IC is not a bad idea, as evidenced by Skumpy's reaction to Galz's post, and thus that might endear the IC to scum and cause them to subsequently townread scum. That's just what it looks like to me right now.

Not sure what me scumhunting has to do with Awaclus or what Awaclus has to do with this game or even why you feel like this is the best way you can help lynch scum.

I've already given a crap ton more analysis than almost any other person in this game. Trying to paint me as doing otherwise is about as disingenuous as you could get. I've been actively scum hunting every single day, with multiple points of view and analysis taken into account before and after every turn. What's anti-town (Hi, Awaclus), is tunneling so hard you're blinded to any amount of reason. The fact is Skumpy and I both have made our cases and reads clear at this point. I've been "appealing to the IC" because him and Skumpy are the only two actively engaging in this game and I KNOW he's town. Teproc disagrees with the cases though. Fine. He has every right. If my lynch choice won't be the lynch then I might as well sheep the IC, as all our other reads like up.

I never said you weren't posting a ton of analysis and I'm not trying to paint you as not involved. Being involved and posting a lot is not the question here, otherwise we would just be lynching lurkers every game. What I'm trying to say is I think you've been anti-town despite the volume of posts from you and I think if we lynch you you'll flip scum. Call it tunneling if you want, but me pointing out the scummy things you do and pushing for your lynch is not anti-town. Also, no, you, Teproc and Skumpy are NOT the only people who are contributing. Just because you happen to post more than other people doesn't mean other people are not engaged and it certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch you.


...well I mean... we probably should refrain from lynching Teproc :P
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:24:40 am
^^^^ Awaclus 2.0

You've been anti-town the whole game, and now you're trying to appeal to the IC. I think if I were scum I'd be trying to hunt PRs instead of worrying about the IC for the first couple days which could partly explain why Teproc is still alive, but that's not really a discussion that needs to be had right now. In the meantime however, it would benefit scum to establish that blindly following the IC is not a bad idea, as evidenced by Skumpy's reaction to Galz's post, and thus that might endear the IC to scum and cause them to subsequently townread scum. That's just what it looks like to me right now.



Not sure what me scumhunting has to do with Awaclus or what Awaclus has to do with this game or even why you feel like this is the best way you can help lynch scum.

I've already given a crap ton more analysis than almost any other person in this game. Trying to paint me as doing otherwise is about as disingenuous as you could get. I've been actively scum hunting every single day, with multiple points of view and analysis taken into account before and after every turn. What's anti-town (Hi, Awaclus), is tunneling so hard you're blinded to any amount of reason. The fact is Skumpy and I both have made our cases and reads clear at this point. I've been "appealing to the IC" because him and Skumpy are the only two actively engaging in this game and I KNOW he's town. Teproc disagrees with the cases though. Fine. He has every right. If my lynch choice won't be the lynch then I might as well sheep the IC, as all our other reads like up.


Not to like whatever butt-in... but I would like to point out that this entire game I have heard like literally everyone at some point in time say the phrase "... oh but Galz can do whatever he wants bc he is good and etc.".
Not arguing with that. I just want it to be known I think everyone should completely disregard the fact that he has "contributed" more than everyone. As by the same logic it means nothing bc he could be doing anything at any time for any reason.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:28:39 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:33:49 am
regardless of alignment I believe Faust is telling the truth.
So if there's no Doctor you would read me as town?

answer to this?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:46:01 am
unvote

Note- XXR's last action before going VLA was to v..o..t..e Faust (just making sure). I am still good with voting for him, but I am following my own advice on extending the days. If you think XXR is skum you need to think about this. Would skum play this this way? add a vote when one vote matters so much to a person that isn't a sure lynch?

I think this should give more cred to XXR as a town read.
I think this should have use look back into a Faust lynch.
I think we are OVERTHINKING a ton of crap and skum are laughing at us right now so let's get our $%@& together.

I do NOT like a XXR or Galz lynch today. I obv am fine with a Faust lynch. If someone has some input on a RR or Chairs I could also maybe get behind those.
Skumpy tied or first pick with Faust still.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 20, 2017, 03:48:40 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:50:15 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 03:52:20 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Also - I mean his opinion is more valuable to Town because we know we are town plus he is town...  but he only knows he is town. So his "no reason to lie" + his "lack of information X our "added information" = a more valued opinion.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 20, 2017, 03:53:24 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?

Kay. I'd go with faust.

Just to clarify your last post about xxr, is most of that only really relevant if faust flips scum? No problem if it is, just curious whether it's something I should look deeper into right now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 20, 2017, 04:09:19 am
I'm pretty null on RR and chairs. Much more confident about Galz than faust but yeah I'll just back off and be flexible.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 04:15:53 am
What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?

Kay. I'd go with faust.

Just to clarify your last post about xxr, is most of that only really relevant if faust flips scum? No problem if it is, just curious whether it's something I should look deeper into right now.

Agreed on the Faust flip - but the basis of my read is more on a "he is playing like I am playing" tell. I guess also, if he was being coached I would of thought he would be more active early on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 04:16:42 am
I'm pretty null on RR and chairs. Much more confident about Galz than faust but yeah I'll just back off and be flexible.

Rad. I am not saying to disregard it. I am just saying that I think we ALL can be much more confident about a galz decision on D4.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 20, 2017, 06:31:37 am
Disclaimer: Currently 3 in the morning, my post may not be totally sane or correct, and everything I'm about to say is probably at like 70% of my best effort

Firstly: I'm a pessimist, I don't think town's winning this game. Hopefully I'm wrong. At least since everybody's had so different reads, I won't be the number #1 candidate for LVP?

About my being a PR or no, one of Teproc and Galzria is very wrong. I have not claimed once this game what my role is and if you think you know based on my posts, I would recommend dropping that assumption.


Now for reads:

The player who I think is most correct and is making the most sense, other than very significant incorrect accusation, is DatSwan. I agree with him; I think the team is faust/chairs/RR, that's me going on the record. The post where he claims VT in #622 just screams town to me. He's had some mafia experience, according to Galzria, but I have too, and I know that I would make some very bold moves as skum in my first game. But claiming VT halfway through day 2 is not one of them. Plus, the rest of that post feels genuine.

I have to put my faith in Galzria as town. I'm aware he's crafty, I'm aware he's a feared scum player, but I think his points have made a lot of sense. In any event, as DatSwan said, he's a bad lynch today. I don't know if I love his reads, but everybody's screaming different things. If I'm wrong about him, I take solace in knowing I won't be the first sailor he's Sirened to death.

Andrew: I didn't pay too close attention to him, I'll try again later. There's no blaring scum alarms, but he's slipped down on my town radar quite a bit. I'd also put him out of the lynch pool for now, but he could be scum, I won't discount the possibility.

Raptor: Oh boy, I just don't know what to think. One thing is for sure: with all due respect Raptor, your reads have not been good. You've voted for Robz, Jake, and pushed a TWM/Skumpy team pretty hard. That's 0/4 right there. He has not done anything this game to suggest that he's town. TWM said he saw something suspicious Raptor said day 2, I need to go back and look for that at some point. At the end of the day, he hasn't pushed hard a case for or against anyone, besides me, and seems willing to sit back and the let the fireworks show unfold.

But

I don't know the guy. DatSwan and Galzria both say they do, and both say this is very natural for him. I don't know how he would play as scum, but I suspect the scum team would ask him to be more involved. And the vote on Faust is giving me serious pause into thinking there's a team there, and I've already said I believe faust to be scum. The vote on Robz is so strange and undefended that I think as scum, he would rather sit on his vote a little longer. He's not my last choice for a lynch, but I believe it could be a big mistake to lynch him. In addition, if my theory is correct, or even a little off, I think he might have an eventful night if he's alive for it, and I would be very interested to see what transpires then (of course, I [or maybe Andrew?] will be dead instead).


Other 3: Scummy
With my numbers question about faust's status, I kind of went into it thinking anyone who answered 2 would be shady, which is what chairs did, RR similar. They're apparently willing to lynch faust, but they don't want to vote there. I wonder if #902 is faust giving some day instructions. I've said numerous times why I think faust is scum, and chairs and RR have just not contributed and made their feelings very well known. Plus, I'd like to Gkrieg called it correct in the first few minutes.

So there you go. I think that's where we should be focusing, and I think staying on Raptor could have some serious repercussions. Again, I might change my mind in the future, and I could be very wrong about Raptor. I think it's a mistake.



Skumpy out, Roger Roger.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 20, 2017, 03:07:00 pm
Skumpy, this whole game's a goddamn sanity drain, no need to apologize.

The more I look at everybody's reaction, the more I think faust is town. I realize that most of you are probably just going to think I'm scum trying to save his buddy here (since apparently we're making the mistake of calling scumteams) but that's my honest opinion.

I don't remember who I'm voting. vote: Andrew. Just a gut feel.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 20, 2017, 04:45:55 pm
And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.

Just from a helping perspective - does anyone agree with this? More importantly in the world where I flip skum (which I won't), what do we learn from that?
That's super scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 20, 2017, 04:56:32 pm
I will make my defense tomorrow. It will be called "why not to lynch faust" and be magnificent.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 20, 2017, 05:37:59 pm
Vote Count 3.2

faust (1): Xxraptorslayer96
Galzria (1): AndrewisFTTW
DatSwan (1): faust
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Teproc, Galzria
AndrewisFTTW (1): chairs
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, Skumpy, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 20, 2017, 06:58:40 pm
Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh. That vote count is the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

unvote

Figure it out people.

And the people not voting: vote. DatSwan, you might want long days but
a) Even if we do, you not voting isn't helping those long days be informative. You're engaging now, that's good, but votes are ultimately the only thing that affect the outcome of the game.
b) We don't actually want to go to deadline, it leads to situations like D1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 20, 2017, 07:00:30 pm
Also: myr eads are not set in stone. If you're town, you should not be caring too much about them. That you know I'm town should lead you to consider my arguments because you know they're sincere, but that's it. As had been said repeatedly, I'm less likely than any other townie to find scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 20, 2017, 07:07:43 pm
Vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 07:08:33 pm
vote: faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 07:15:28 pm
Ac
Also: myr eads are not set in stone. If you're town, you should not be caring too much about them. That you know I'm town should lead you to consider my arguments because you know they're sincere, but that's it. As had been said repeatedly, I'm less likely than any other townie to find scum.

But you are more likely to have us recognize bias. Things like your most recent post is GOOD it HELPS. Saying that we need to vote because it is most important makes me rethink it because it came from the IC.
Beat the bushes a little man.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 07:34:13 pm
Galz.. If you were going to change where would you go?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 20, 2017, 08:55:04 pm
Not Faust, not Raptor?

Chairs. Then RR. Then you. Then Andrew.

I could flip RR and Chairs. I could flip you and Andrew.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 20, 2017, 09:17:31 pm
I could get behind chairs or RR... so it is known.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 20, 2017, 11:37:01 pm
vote: Roadrunner I could get behind this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 21, 2017, 02:09:35 am
As much as it is a shame to not be able to write up a big defense right now, I'm going to give you the gist of it here:

I am a claimed PR. The only claimed PR (well, you know, there's Teproc). From my perspective, there is a 50% chance that I will get cleared once we massclaim - barring fakeclaims etc. I could still prevent nightkills, particularly if mod 1 is not active. I am the best possible mislynch target for scum. That right there should make you think twice. If we were at LyLo, this would not matter, but we are not. If I am town, I am a strong asset to it. If I am scum, oyu already know my role, and can go after my unknown partners who would probably be more dangerous.

I will respond to any case I see later, but think about this for now. Unfortunately, my work has blocked f.ds and this will limit the time I can spend here... but there's definitely more to come.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 03:46:59 am
As much as it is a shame to not be able to write up a big defense right now, I'm going to give you the gist of it here:

I am a claimed PR. The only claimed PR (well, you know, there's Teproc). From my perspective, there is a 50% chance that I will get cleared once we massclaim - barring fakeclaims etc. I could still prevent nightkills, particularly if mod 1 is not active. I am the best possible mislynch target for scum. That right there should make you think twice. If we were at LyLo, this would not matter, but we are not. If I am town, I am a strong asset to it. If I am scum, oyu already know my role, and can go after my unknown partners who would probably be more dangerous.

I will respond to any case I see later, but think about this for now. Unfortunately, my work has blocked f.ds and this will limit the time I can spend here... but there's definitely more to come.

I expected more of the "magnificent defense of Faust." But I won't doubt your lack of availability at work.

A) Fakeclaims are arguably easier in this game than most. Scum know exactly what is and is not in the game. They know based on what's not what COULD be, without ever having to provide proof to town (or proof that's completely circumstantial or falsified).
--- Let's say I'm scum. I know there's no Doctor in the game.  I can claim Doctor with whatever results I want. N1 I Doctored Galz. N2 I Doctored Teproc. Sure, why not? Seems reasonable. If I know there's no Tracker or Watcher either that makes it even easier.

My point is, massclaiming (and assuming yourself to be cleared by such) would be bad. I suggested Doctor claiming earlier would clear you based on an assumption that I'm no longer going to take for granted. To answer your (and DatSwan) - Given what's been said, and my own (apparent) misunderstanding,  no,  a Doctor claim would NOT clear you (sorry).

B) If you're town, you're a strong asset to town: Yes. But your decisions thus far have not suggested to me that you're town. Then again, I felt (and I think the majority of town did as well) that you made horrible choices as Vig in 100 (not meant insultingly, just opinion) - so making "in my opinion" poor choices doesn't mean you're scum.

C) Regarding comparing others to how I play - I've yet to be proven wrong. I've use the argument on Andrew, and on you. Neither of whom have been shown to be town. I've never said that my play is "ultimate" scum play. But what I've meant to suggest is that the play worked. It worked well. Teproc said somewhere that it "shouldn't have worked", but he wasn't in the game. It's easy to rationalize from the sidelines. It obviously worked against a hell of a lot of veteran players.  I've a history of success on this front and so I don't think it's wrong to look for similar patterns in others. Your claim is 100% viable as town. It's also 100% viable as scum. I can't argue you're scum based on your claim. That's fantastic scum play. It's also really unfortunate town play.

What I would like from you, is to please offer a defense based on: wagons, vote history, and stated reads thus far. Please leave your claim out of it, except to justify your choices. I certainly didn't find your justification of Skumpy last night satisfactory, nor your response to my claim D2 following your claim to have blocked me N1. That is - I don't think either feel like choices or reactions reflect the mindset of a town Roleblocker having made the decisions you have.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 21, 2017, 02:52:13 pm
The more I read through, the more I realize how dang impossible this game is. If DatSwan and/or Raptor is scum who came into this game thinking they'd be exposed immediately, you're doing a great job.

I've said my team opinion before. I'm probably wrong, but so are a lot of other people. I'm a perfectionist and I HATE being wrong, which is I why I'm holding back on my vote, still have 2 days left.

Anyways, the only 2 people I'm willing to vote for now are RR and faust (Teproc, why has RR moved so far up your town radar?) My instincts during day 2 that was something fishy was afoot ended up being correct, which clearly means my instincts on day 3 are correct too  ;). Unlike day 2, there've been quite a few people who haven't voted for faust, even though they said they're willing; that, faust, is the difference between you and jake. Teproc, per your question about faust's narrative for why he would claim as scum: I don't know, but you haven't voted for him yet, and that's all that matters. It's all just WIFOM, and trying to reason why someone would do something or not I'm now realizing is so futile. If you don't vote for them, clearly it wasn't useless.


I'd still most like to vote for Faust. A wagon of Skumpy, Galzria, and I think DatSwan at the start of the day and a wagon of XX, DatSwan, and Andrew now doesn't scare me from voting him the way the Jake wagons did. However, 2 points about faust I should acknowledge.

First, I see I was wrong about what made him claim, he was going to claim regardless of my threat. The 'why' is not the point at the moment, his opening post was a clear indicator that he was going to spill the beans. I wish more than ever I'd confronted him day 2.

Second (and this is directed towards mainly Galzria), I think analyzing his reasons for why he would roleblock me as town is very pointless. He's not scum who's coming up with a desperate lie to cover for his actions, and he would not argue his reasons if he himself didn't believe they were valid. When this game is over and the post-game talk starts, I'm sure that he will still defend his reasoning as sensible for town then, no matter what his alignment is. I don't think they are, but this is less of an alignment tell and more of an newbie vs vet tell (still stand by my thinking that it's a dumb reason; I DEFINITELY don't think it should bump me to the top of your town reads). Much more advantageous to think about why he would roleblock me as scum and decide if there's a good narrative there. I say there is. Teproc says there isn't, but that's based on his unfounded notion than I'm a VT. Again, nobody knows my role except me. Try and think you do, you don't.

Most willing to vote for faust still, I'll hold off until he's made his big defense. There's one thing in particular he hasn't really mentioned (maybe he has some) which I find kind of scummy, so we'll see if he does now. If he hasn't said anything in 24 hours, I'm definitely voting him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 03:21:55 pm
Skumpy, that's kind of what I was getting at with B) and C) above - just because I think his player choices were poor doesn't make him scum. He could've made those choices as town, and while I disagree with them, they would be his to make. It's a similar thought to my claiming what, and when, I did. Just because he, or Andrew, or anybody, disagrees with my choice or thinks it's a poor choice doesn't make me scum.

My follow up to that in C) is that regardless of his alignment, the overall claim works. Which is why it's such a solid scum claim and an unfortunate town one. I agree with you that pointing out or asking for justification on his blocking you won't make much difference. However I do think that going back and reading his response following my claim with the "knowledge" that he had just blocked me N1 is valid - it's a perspective we didn't have at the time it happened.

That said, doing exactly that has - for better or worse - lessened my scum read on him substantially. If you would like to know exactly why I would be happy to share. In the meantime:

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 21, 2017, 03:56:57 pm
I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 21, 2017, 04:12:45 pm
Going through arguments as I see them.

More reasoning: I'm not scum. I now know TWM is not scum. So if faust is town, do you really mean to tell me that 5 townies were voting for another one, and scum didn't want to finish the job, especially since faust's vote was fixed and couldn't change to anybody else? I just don't believe it.
That's not a particularly unusual thing to happen. Scum really loves an all-town wagon on town, and if it looks like it's going to happen anyway would avoid joining.

More reasoning: I don't like basing votes on character reads. I tried it with Robz and failed miserably. I'll try again - it's very reasonable for scum to jump out with a quick town read on me, and expecting me to be the day 1 lynch, not join in order to show up everybody who voted for me. If it wasn't for TWM's godlike intervention, I probably would be dead by now.
I think you greatly overestimate how likely you were to be lynched, but that is a common theme for you across this game.

I had a null-leaning towards skummy feeling on him to start with, and after a PR claim when scum is throwing perfect to start D3 seems like a straightforward scum play.
It should be obvious that I, as town, have a very good reason to claim too. I know that scum probably knows who the PRs are by now. I have information that may well die with me. So saying that scum has a good reason for a claim does not make me scum because town has reasons just as good.

That DatSwan's read on me is only based on the claim is worrying.

...
This post confuses me. I think all it does is assume I'm scum and try to determine from this which modifications we have. Which seems pretty pointless, somehow I think an argument against me was supposed to be made here, but then the mind wandered. The argument i see is some theory that scum was sure enough that there Skumpy is the Doctor that they shot TWM even though they thought him likely to be protected... I don't even know what to say. I guess okay maybe (it still needs a lot of caveats, such as no mod 3), but it still makes more sense for town to do what i did.

I said 'claim your role, I have evidence against you'. Which he instantly did. That's all the facts. The question is now, as you said before, "Why would he claim then and there?" Note he didn't claim in his first post like Galzria did on day 2.
I did, in fact. Or softclaim. My first post does not make sense if not followed up by a claim.

And you know what, I'm through. What is shocking to me is that noone was able to provide any reasoning beyond they didn't like my claim. Noone even bothered to look at my play before that. There is no case, no effort, and a lot of people just responded to Skumpy's number thing without ever backing that up with anything substantial. I mean, seriously. The way my wagon is treated should raise all kinds of mislynch alarms for you guys.

PPE: 3
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 21, 2017, 04:15:16 pm
Will try to make a case on DatSwan tomorrow. There were some thing that caught my attention while rereading.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 04:44:39 pm
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.

This post is chock full of PR speculations. Notable is the last sentence though. If Faust is telling the truth, then scum know that there's a town Roleblocker in the game. If Faust is scum, then we know that Mod 2 is OFF (he would've been counter claimed).

I see the last sentence here as far more likely to come from town than from scum. Why is scum suggesting scum might be worried about a long-shot chance of a role they know isn't in the game blocking them and getting them caught? It doesn't really follow.

What makes sense is Faust, knowing he's town and the Roleblocker, recognizing scum might make an action based on the fear of being Roleblocked - as unlikely as that is (hence, "a stretch").
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 04:49:15 pm
I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).

Chairs/RR/DatSwan, or Chairs/RR/Andrew would be my leading team based on PoE, yes. I'm not inclined to believe you're scum, and I know Teproc and I are not. Faust just dropped off the list based largely on that single post. I could absolutely be wrong about Raptor though - but I've felt he gets votes in the same way Jake did. It simply didn't and doesn't feel right.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 21, 2017, 05:18:19 pm
Galz no longer willing to lynch faust. Excellent.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 21, 2017, 07:03:59 pm
Rolestopping doesn't get around Commuter. They don't know when I'm using it, so they always have that risk.

faust, what makes you think scum knows who the PRs are ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 21, 2017, 07:07:59 pm
Again: it is never safe for scum to kill me. Get that through your head, we went through this early day 2 already, and if you're making deductions based on this faulty assumption it's a problem.

I don't think TWM dying is evidence for or against the existence of a Doctor or a Watcher. He was not a surprising kill, but not an obvious one either.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:24:22 pm
Again: it is never safe for scum to kill me. Get that through your head, we went through this early day 2 already, and if you're making deductions based on this faulty assumption it's a problem.

I don't think TWM dying is evidence for or against the existence of a Doctor or a Watcher. He was not a surprising kill, but not an obvious one either.

What is this directed at?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:25:15 pm
Rolestopping doesn't get around Commuter. They don't know when I'm using it, so they always have that risk.

Or this?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 21, 2017, 07:25:28 pm
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:28:13 pm
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.

That entire quote is from early D2 and is nothing new. Were you following the posts made before that where I said a post made by Faust D2 led me to believe he's less likely to be Scum? Skumpy asked for it, and I provided it with my reasoning. And nothing even referred to the middle paragraph you're now going on about.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:29:16 pm
Skumpy, that's kind of what I was getting at with B) and C) above - just because I think his player choices were poor doesn't make him scum. He could've made those choices as town, and while I disagree with them, they would be his to make. It's a similar thought to my claiming what, and when, I did. Just because he, or Andrew, or anybody, disagrees with my choice or thinks it's a poor choice doesn't make me scum.

My follow up to that in C) is that regardless of his alignment, the overall claim works. Which is why it's such a solid scum claim and an unfortunate town one. I agree with you that pointing out or asking for justification on his blocking you won't make much difference. However I do think that going back and reading his response following my claim with the "knowledge" that he had just blocked me N1 is valid - it's a perspective we didn't have at the time it happened.

That said, doing exactly that has - for better or worse - lessened my scum read on him substantially. If you would like to know exactly why I would be happy to share
. In the meantime:

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:30:10 pm
I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 07:30:21 pm
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.

This post is chock full of PR speculations. Notable is the last sentence though. If Faust is telling the truth, then scum know that there's a town Roleblocker in the game. If Faust is scum, then we know that Mod 2 is OFF (he would've been counter claimed).

I see the last sentence here as far more likely to come from town than from scum. Why is scum suggesting scum might be worried about a long-shot chance of a role they know isn't in the game blocking them and getting them caught? It doesn't really follow.

What makes sense is Faust, knowing he's town and the Roleblocker, recognizing scum might make an action based on the fear of being Roleblocked - as unlikely as that is (hence, "a stretch").
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 21, 2017, 07:38:30 pm
I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).


I believe either of the options are possible. I said in my post that I thought Chairs/RR are on my skum read list.
vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Skumpy on August 21, 2017, 07:39:12 pm
Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.

This post is chock full of PR speculations. Notable is the last sentence though. If Faust is telling the truth, then scum know that there's a town Roleblocker in the game. If Faust is scum, then we know that Mod 2 is OFF (he would've been counter claimed).

I see the last sentence here as far more likely to come from town than from scum. Why is scum suggesting scum might be worried about a long-shot chance of a role they know isn't in the game blocking them and getting them caught? It doesn't really follow.

What makes sense is Faust, knowing he's town and the Roleblocker, recognizing scum might make an action based on the fear of being Roleblocked - as unlikely as that is (hence, "a stretch").

I get where you're coming from with that last sentence thing, but if there's anybody who's going to come up with the stretch idea besides a town roleblocker, it would be a scum roleblocker. Then again, if he's scum, he might've argued more about a stretchy doctor idea since that's the other Mod 1 role. Eh, I'm not totally convinced, but it is a good point.

Going through arguments as I see them.

More reasoning: I'm not scum. I now know TWM is not scum. So if faust is town, do you really mean to tell me that 5 townies were voting for another one, and scum didn't want to finish the job, especially since faust's vote was fixed and couldn't change to anybody else? I just don't believe it.
That's not a particularly unusual thing to happen. Scum really loves an all-town wagon on town, and if it looks like it's going to happen anyway would avoid joining.

More reasoning: I don't like basing votes on character reads. I tried it with Robz and failed miserably. I'll try again - it's very reasonable for scum to jump out with a quick town read on me, and expecting me to be the day 1 lynch, not join in order to show up everybody who voted for me. If it wasn't for TWM's godlike intervention, I probably would be dead by now.
I think you greatly overestimate how likely you were to be lynched, but that is a common theme for you across this game.

I had a null-leaning towards skummy feeling on him to start with, and after a PR claim when scum is throwing perfect to start D3 seems like a straightforward scum play.
It should be obvious that I, as town, have a very good reason to claim too. I know that scum probably knows who the PRs are by now. I have information that may well die with me. So saying that scum has a good reason for a claim does not make me scum because town has reasons just as good.

That DatSwan's read on me is only based on the claim is worrying.

...
This post confuses me. I think all it does is assume I'm scum and try to determine from this which modifications we have. Which seems pretty pointless, somehow I think an argument against me was supposed to be made here, but then the mind wandered. The argument i see is some theory that scum was sure enough that there Skumpy is the Doctor that they shot TWM even though they thought him likely to be protected... I don't even know what to say. I guess okay maybe (it still needs a lot of caveats, such as no mod 3), but it still makes more sense for town to do what i did.

I said 'claim your role, I have evidence against you'. Which he instantly did. That's all the facts. The question is now, as you said before, "Why would he claim then and there?" Note he didn't claim in his first post like Galzria did on day 2.
I did, in fact. Or softclaim. My first post does not make sense if not followed up by a claim.

And you know what, I'm through. What is shocking to me is that noone was able to provide any reasoning beyond they didn't like my claim. Noone even bothered to look at my play before that. There is no case, no effort, and a lot of people just responded to Skumpy's number thing without ever backing that up with anything substantial. I mean, seriously. The way my wagon is treated should raise all kinds of mislynch alarms for you guys.

PPE: 3

To respond to these posts:

1. Great, then why don't you vote RR for mentioning the wagon and not hopping on?

2. I haven't expected to be lynched since the start of day 2 when I thought Robz' dying words would carry more weight. Glad to see they didn't. I was very much expecting to be killed last night, but I wasn't, and even before Teproc said anything today, I began the day thinking I'd survive to the end (the 1-7 question was to gauge how people felt about me, or something like that, not to prepare a self-defense). I repeat: I'm a bad liar; if Skummy Skumpy is here to play, you will know.

3. Tied with the doctor, you are the last PR that I'm worried about taking information to the grave with you. Even a cop telling us information tomorrow would give us 1 good read out of 2 if they weren't roleblocked yet or scum. But if you're scum, saying there's a Flavor Cop to get people to reveal roles is a great way to make up for the Flavorless Cop, as I hope you can see.

4. That post wasn't designed to be an argument, I'd done enough of that already. It was designed to be a 'Suppose faust is scum. Does me getting roleblocked make sense?' Since I was TWM's BFF this game and he had said himself he was planning on targeting you first tomorrow, like me; yes, yes it does make sense. Of course it needs caveats, every single theory put forward this game needs caveats. At best, I'm one of mod 3, 4, or 5 and have to make assumptions about two roles. At best.

5. Yes, In your acknowledged PPE, I realized my mistake, you are correct.

Last: But at least DatSwan did make an argument against you, unlike a lot of other people. And of the 6 unknowns to you besides me, 4 have voted for you, and if you are scum, I wouldn't doubt a bus attempt. And even if you're not scum, there's probably some scum who have acknowledged you as potential scum and didn't vote to protect their dignity. Do you honestly believe that all 3 scum lie in {Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan, XXRaptor, Andrew}?

My mislynch alarms have gone up, I admit, but I still believe you to be scum and would be fine with lynching you if need be. Vote: RR for now though, even though I still remain wary of Chairs and suspicious of his vote.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 21, 2017, 07:57:48 pm
Galz: I got your point but thought it was it was a more recent post, sorry about that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2017, 08:04:35 pm
Galz: I got your point but thought it was it was a more recent post, sorry about that.

Nope, D2's.  :)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 22, 2017, 01:02:26 am
Rolestopping doesn't get around Commuter. They don't know when I'm using it, so they always have that risk.

faust, what makes you think scum knows who the PRs are ?
I know they have a Flavor Cop and they had 2 nights to use it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 22, 2017, 01:10:53 am
Last: But at least DatSwan did make an argument against you, unlike a lot of other people. And of the 6 unknowns to you besides me, 4 have voted for you, and if you are scum, I wouldn't doubt a bus attempt. And even if you're not scum, there's probably some scum who have acknowledged you as potential scum and didn't vote to protect their dignity. Do you honestly believe that all 3 scum lie in {Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan, XXRaptor, Andrew}?
It's very possible that some scum is not voting for me, and I never said otherwise. I do think all scum expressed a scumread on me, which is an easy conclusion because everyone except Teproc did... none with good reasoning.

I think 2 scum are definitely in that set. RR is certainly an option as well.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2017, 01:51:21 am
Vote Count 3.3

faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, AndrewisFTTW
DatSwan (1): faust
Roadrunner7671 (3): chairs, DatSwan, Skumpy
chairs (1): Galzria
Not voting (2): Roadrunner7671, Teproc

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on August 22, 2017, 01:53:24 am
So here's what DatSwan did so far.

Nothing D1.

Galz - whether or not you claim as skum or don't claim as skum... you are claiming to be town. Why claim town? What's your gain? We all know what your gain would be if you are skum, but what is the gain if you are town?
Here, DatSwan is questioning Galrzia's claim

vote: Galzria
And subsequently votes. That's an easy thing to do; make a claim look shady, vote solely based on that. Maybe you're already seeing a theme. You can make anyone who claims look scummy that way.

vote: TWM
Going after a townie player.

OK so here is the thing - I am VT. I don't really see the point in saying it because obv everyone is going to make there own decisions, but there it is. I had to look up what "lurking" meant lol.
If it has come off as such to anyone, I would like to say my reasoning behind being subtle so far is only because of my inexperience in the game. Watching and reading and gathering is pretty much all I have been able to maintain, and even then I find it overwhelming (fun, but still a lot).

I am still fine tuning this weird situation where I want to point out "skummy" behavior without making it seem like I am in fact skum. Not because I care if I get lynched because if we win as town we win as town, whatever... but because I want the points to be taken into good consideration.

Galzria could go either way. He is a random dude from what I am reading. I would note he seems to be making certain topics focus on things that he wants to talk about, and ignoring the others, which is skummy, but all in all whatever.

TWM says he doesn't care and doesn't want to put in time and etc, but then types up novels... weird.

I think that Xx is skum. I have no reasoning for it other then what I am perceiving from convos. It would seem to me that as he introduced himself as new in the beginning it would be an easy play to have a vet coach him to be a slow player and manipulate the conversations to their advantage.

That's my 2 cents.

Unvote
Okay, longer post. First the claim does really not fit with his suspicion of Galzria for exactly the same claim. Second, he is super hedgy on TWM and Galzria, the two people he voted for and has since accused of being teamed up. The position on Xx is also really just testing the waters without voting.

In case there was some miscommunication...

1) I did NOT accidentally claim VT. I meant to claim VT, I just did not realize that it would have a negative effect on my townsfolk. I thought I had been pretty straightforward with my thoughts so far. So while yeah, in hindsight, claiming my role probably didn't help my team all too much.. I do want to reiterate to fellow townies... I claimed VT because I am VT. Not by mistake.

[...]

5) Don't forget this shit. #GoTownies
This post is not too interesting contentwise, but not the unnatural insistence on being town (emphasis mine).

Hypothetical - RR flips scum. Does this effect anyone's opinion on a Jake lynch?
This is interesting in terms of potential partner interactions.

It's notable how DatSwan spends all of D2 avoiding having a position on Jake.

Also a note - this day is starting with Faust the same way D2 was starting with Jake. Don't know what that means, just kind of pointing it out since I have to acknowledged my Jake read was wrong.
This post seems to me to read as a townread on me. Yet this follows:

To answer your question about Faust's claim in a nutshell I would say that it did not change my opinion about him all that much...

I had a null-leaning towards skummy feeling on him to start with, and after a PR claim when scum is throwing perfect to start D3 seems like a straightforward scum play.
DatSwan had not expressed any read at all on me prior to that point; if he scumread me, why did he not say so?

Hypothetical... XXR goes to the rope... are we thinking two vets with him? What is the likelihood that someone like Galz and/or Andrew are bussing him st this point?
This is the same thing he did to RR on D2, and interestingly these are the two most likely partners for him in my opinion. He's trying to evaluate if a bus helps him here.

And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.

Just from a helping perspective - does anyone agree with this? More importantly in the world where I flip skum (which I won't), what do we learn from that?
And here it goes again.

I think the worrying about what happens when certain players flip scum is the most striking argument here. Add in that we don't really have any analysis of people's posts, just of blank votes and claims because it's easier for scum to deal in those categories, and I think we have a pretty good lynch target here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 22, 2017, 05:24:17 am
Vote: XXRaptor
Vote: Galzria
Vote: Andrew
Vote: Chairs
Vote: DatSwan
Vote: Teproc
Vote: Skumpy
Unvote

There, now I've voted for everybody this game so that when it's all over, I can look back and say "Aw yeah, I voted all 3 scum! Why did nobody want to join me?"

So I'm really bad at this game. At least I can't do any worse than the townsmen (and women) at the end of M100 (no offense to any of them, but I'm just reassuring myself that it's OK to suck). After rereading, I am back to null on everybody, including Teproc (If I ever play more games with him, I suspect I'll mislynch him like a lot).

There are some very complex shenanigans underfoot.

Faust has laughed at me in the face of my accusations and proceeded to make a case against DatSwan that is, I hate to admit, pretty good. He's also throwing shade XX and RR's ways.

Old man Galzria was my most trusted man after TWM's death and was with me on faust, then suddenly, he's gone and lost and agreeing with faust, except he's Chasing Chairs (like the Snow Patrol song) but also considering RR and dismissing XX and suspecting one of DatSwan and Andrew.

Chairs is doing what a Chair is gonna do. Namely, spinning around like a pinwheel in an Oklahomoan or perhaps Kansasian hurricane and going after RR and...well, going after everybody really.... and casting suspicion everywhere, except me (I'm liking this pattern!)

Muldoon (aka Mr. Dinosaur Killer) is accusing me and the 3 people above who all think I'm town. What's up with that?

Teproc is leaving me and the F-G rivalry out of the picture, which has kinda been dominating the scene. So he wants 3 quiet ones.

Andrew is doing the opposite. He suspects the F-G 'Rivalry' and believes they're scum, and doesn't suspect the quiet Chairs and RR, and as far as I can remember, thinks newbies are too helpless to fall under suspicion unless they royally screw up (OK, maybe that's not fair, but he hasn't said much against any of us).

RR has said he'll be back to do his reads. He hasn't and is not letting us know who he suspects. That's good.

DatSwan is screaming he's town. Like, it's a bullhorn, but the tip is narrowed so that instead of the sound going everywhere, it's destroying our eardrums. He thinks it's me and Faust, and then some of Chairs and RR. Definitely not XX though.

Skumpy is Skared.

Conclusion: Some people are very correct. Some people are incredibly wrong.

Does that sum up where we are right now? If anyone wants to make corrections to their status, feel free to, and treat this post like a Wiki.

Not sure of my availability until deadline. I'll definitely be around some, but my hours will vary. I'll look through again tomorrow, and I'll sit back and let the little grey cells work their magic, then I'll solve this mystery and avenge our fallen brethren.

(P.S. It's late, I'm delirious, and I probably missed some opinions of people somewhere. Apologies in advance).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 22, 2017, 07:10:12 am
vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 22, 2017, 01:48:51 pm
I've completely fallen off the bus, I've had a really busy weekend. I reread everything, and right now I think my favorite options are Faust or Datswan, my least favorite options are Teproc and Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 02:26:20 pm
Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 22, 2017, 03:59:32 pm
Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust
No defense? Well okay then, this is easier than I thought.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 04:09:42 pm
doc appt sorry. I will get to it in a sec. I don't feel a great deal to defend most of the points as they have been addressed previously, but you do have some good points in there.... I will get to them shortly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 04:39:36 pm
Pre-hopefulBigReadLaterOn:

Is it a XX/Galzria team? It seems too simple.

Watch it just end up being something like faust/Chairs/RR and they just let town massacre themselves.

before I get to anything....this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 04:52:13 pm
Because I am the nut low at quoting things I am going to address the faust post without using them. Sorry if that makes it hard but phone makes things difficult. Hopefully we can follow along:

1) "Nothing D1." - Reminder, I was VLA.

2) "Questioning Galz VT claim D2" - The quote provided is taken out of context. I was asking SPECIFICALLY Galz to justify what he gains as a town player by doing this. It was in response to the IC telling us to stop wasting time why Galz would do such a thing. I voted for him because he didn't answer and I felt that skummy.

3) "Voted TWM" - Pointing out that I voted for a town player is irrelevant. I thought he was skummy, I placed a vote, I changed my mind and changed my vote to Galz. Whereas, just saying, you end voted Jake days 1 and 2 and are now targeting me.

4) "Galz + TWM team" - I thought there was a strong case for TWM and Galz being 2/3 skum. As mentioned above in #3), I changed my mind about the situation which at least temp suspended my paranoia on the team idea. So I unvoted.

5) Having no Position on Jake - I didn't have a position on Jake. I felt like everyone's (especially Faust) points were dictated off of interactions regarding specificities on a D1 wagon that was rushed at the end. Obviously, if you are skum you will jump on this as a defense, but we have to also remember that it doesn't really provide all of the info we think it does. Robz went down because we fucked up. That should not be forgotten. Jake went down because the conversation was navigated to do such by skum... because we forgot about what happened to Robz.

6) Having no previous position on Faust - I stated in your quote that I was null leaning on skummy. You didn't post a lot, so I did not have a large opinion but if I had to pick a way to lean I was leaning skummy. That is why i hadn't expressed anything.

7) And to the final and most obvious concern ---- I am hoping that either we can actually consider "what we learn from people when they flip" to help us now before we do something dumb, or at the very least everyone remembers to consider it if I am to eat it.
I don't even like voting for Faust right now to be honest, he has buried himself and it seems like a waste. If I go, I flip VT, its over for him. However, the quickest way to absolve myself would be to point out he is just accusing me with very little actual backing, cast my vote for him, hope it gets to hammer, obviously have him flip skum, and then we can focus on the fun part.

Two additional Points to touch on:

1) My Claim - I claimed my VT role on Day 2 for a reason - because then I can play straightforward and not have to worry about it. I can  contribute knowing one of two things will be certain, 1) I have no reads on anyone. Lots of you have reads on each other. I don't know how to interact knowing that my opinion matters, without shooting my team in the foot... but a lot of you do know how to do that. It was primarily a way to make sure I could cast my opinion when I felt I should without be victim to the meta. 2) that if I ever meet the rope it will reveal a great amount of information when I flip town.

2) Some people are obv thinking what I am thinking... "Why would Faust go so hard at me if he is Skum? He just kills himself for tomorrow." You lynch me we go MYLO tomorrow. If he hangs today he hangs today. If I hang today, he hangs tomorrow... but they have us at win or go home.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 22, 2017, 05:03:21 pm
LOL @ Skumpy.

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

WTF vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 22, 2017, 05:03:33 pm
Fuck why is it so close to deadline.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 22, 2017, 05:10:57 pm
Can somebody not as lazy as me produce a short vote history for each player throughout the game (better yet if it includes "stated would vote but hasn't")? If not I'll get around to looking at the people I'm most interested in at some point today. Deadline is 3:00pm forum time tomorrow though.

Skumpy: The problem, as you've noted, is the lack of any sort of consensus amongst town players. I'll lynch anybody except Teproc, Me, or you. My preferred order is pretty clear by now (Chairs, RR, Raptor?, DatSwan, Andrew, Faust*) - and Faust is only not #1 based entirely on that single post (Teproc's read plays a small part. At the very least I know it's not disingenuous, even if it's not right).

Here's a question for those interested in considering it (easier for Faust and I)

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

This is the end of day vote:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 05:15:45 pm
LOL @ Skumpy.

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

WTF vote: DatSwan

Me pointing out the obvious that when I vote back at Faust it will look skummy is a WTF because....?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 22, 2017, 05:23:55 pm
Funny you should ask Galz, I was writing this during work to hope it would inspire my thoughts. It hasn't.
This is based solely on day 3 opinions. It's not who voted for who, it's: "for each player, who suspects them, and who think they're town". Could be wrong in a few places, haven't double checked it really.

Note I'm leaving myself off all lists. As I said, I'm scared to be wrong.

Skumpy:
Against: XX, DatSwan
For: Everybody Else

Faust:
Against: XX, DatSwan, Andrew, RR
For: Teproc, Galzria, Chairs

Galzria:
Against: Andrew, XX
For: Teproc

XX:
Against: Andrew, faust
For: DatSwan

DatSwan:
Against: Faust, Teproc, RR, Chairs
For: XX

Chairs:
Against: Galzria, XX, Teproc
For: Faust

RR:
Against: Chairs, DatSwan, Faust, Galzria
For: XX

Andrew:
Against: Chairs
For: XX

Edit this if you think there are corrections to be made.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 22, 2017, 06:26:09 pm
Deadline is in 21 hours. People should state whether or not they will be around before that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 22, 2017, 06:28:26 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 06:32:07 pm
Will be here. Just heard XXR should be back in 4-5 hours.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 22, 2017, 07:09:33 pm
Grrrrr, I hate this. OK, here are my completely useless conclusions.

Firstly: Except for Andrew, I don't think anybody believes there's a team of Raptor and faust. I don't. Voting a teammate like faust before VLA is such a risky thing to do, I don't expect him to do it.

Nextly: So as a reminder, Galzria and DatSwan both claimed VT day 2. Was that a scum premeditated move? After all, if one's found to be lying, what're the odds the other one is too, amirite? But that doesn't seem right. Do people think the plan was for Galzria to claim immediately, not knowing ahead of time he'd be roleblocked (unless it's faust/galzria/datswan/yadayadaydaa), and then instruct DatSwan to claim THREE days later? That seems iffy.

And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense! As I said, were I skummy, there is absolutely no way I would randomly, uninstructedly, claim my role in my first game that early. I'm not bold enough to do that without inciting the wrath of my team. I just can't wrap my head around it. He's either gotta be town or has a really clever partner. Right? right?....

Vote: Chairs, I'm honestly close to beyond caring because I kind of believe everybody. Chairs, just say anything, and I'll probably unvote you. Draw Proposal? We'll see if anybody wants to agree to one, perhaps?

Why chairs? I don't know, because Galzria's there? As untrustworthy as he always is, he's been right on TWM and was ready to get the wagon off Jake. What has chairs done this game? I don't know, maybe vote EVERYBODY? There's a lot of bus potential there. He was willing to vote faust, didn't, and now they're defending each other. Does that indicate a team? Elephant + Rhino. Who's suspected Chairs so far? Not really anybody seriously enough to vote for him.

I will be gone for a stretch later on but I'll be around 11ish hours before the deadline, and again during the last 3 hours or so.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 22, 2017, 07:13:01 pm
Skumpy, I was also right about TWM and didn't feel good about lynching Jake. Will you vote Galz now?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 22, 2017, 07:14:46 pm
By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 22, 2017, 07:41:26 pm
I am unlikely to be available at deadline, sadly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 22, 2017, 08:36:34 pm
By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.

I think the likelihood that Galz flips VT Farrrrrr outweighs the chances of Faust flipping RB.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 22, 2017, 09:00:11 pm
By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.

I think the likelihood that Galz flips VT Farrrrrr outweighs the chances of Faust flipping RB.

I disagree but whatever.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 12:30:54 am
I'm back! need to reread everything but i should be around for deadline.

Unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 01:37:42 am
Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 01:40:44 am
Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.

xx seconds this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 01:58:25 am
If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.
Well, yes. If scum lurks or is VLA, town is going to push wagons. That is what I think happened.

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

I think one scum in Xx, chairs, RR is... a pretty safe assumption to make? I mean that's probably correct, but it would be probably correct regardless of votecounts because having at least one scum in a set of 3 has a pretty high likelihood right now. I do not think there is any inherent reason why Andrew and DatSwan couldn't both be scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 01:59:09 am
Deadline is in 21 hours. People should state whether or not they will be around before that.
I'll be there until up to 2 hours to deadline, can't promise after that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:00:37 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:01:48 am
Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.
That's awful and asks for us to scramble for a lynch without providing sufficient time for claiming.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:06:46 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 02:08:17 am
If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.
Well, yes. If scum lurks or is VLA, town is going to push wagons. That is what I think happened.

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

I think one scum in Xx, chairs, RR is... a pretty safe assumption to make? I mean that's probably correct, but it would be probably correct regardless of votecounts because having at least one scum in a set of 3 has a pretty high likelihood right now. I do not think there is any inherent reason why Andrew and DatSwan couldn't both be scum.

The thing is... the one "missing" townie from vote count 1.4 on those wagons is Jake himself. There is simply next to a 0% chance that 8 of 8 town were in totality on those 2 wagons with 0 scum aboard. Yes, technically it's possible - but it's just highly highly highly unlikely. We're talking D1 full town here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 02:09:06 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.

1 in 2, and 2 in 4 is better.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:17:07 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.

1 in 2, and 2 in 4 is better.
Yes, but not even by much, and that rests on a bunch of assumptions already.

Can you present a case on chairs other than votecounts?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 02:26:31 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.

1 in 2, and 2 in 4 is better.
Yes, but not even by much, and that rests on a bunch of assumptions already.

Can you present a case on chairs other than votecounts?

I'll pull everything in a bit, sure. But votes are huge. It's the loudest action one can make publicly. Tracking known town's votes against possible town's votes is invaluable. The chances above that all 8 comprised the total 8 that were possibly town is crazy slim, albeit yes, not impossible.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 02:31:56 am
Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.
That's awful and asks for us to scramble for a lynch without providing sufficient time for claiming.

Not really... I'm just saying please don't lynch like 2 hours before deadline so I can be there for it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 02:32:48 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

Why the hell would Galz claim VT at the start of D2?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 02:35:58 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

I already explained my reasoning for doing this.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 02:38:48 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.

1 in 2, and 2 in 4 is better.
Yes, but not even by much, and that rests on a bunch of assumptions already.

Can you present a case on chairs other than votecounts?

Well first off... Vote Counts...
And then there is post frequency.
And then there are those pesky vote counts again...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:44:32 am
Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.
That's awful and asks for us to scramble for a lynch without providing sufficient time for claiming.

Not really... I'm just saying please don't lynch like 2 hours before deadline so I can be there for it.
Well then I can't be there for it, so please do lynch 2 hours before deadline.

What I'm saying is we can't place too much weight in personal availability. We lynch when we lynch, articificial stretching or rushing is counterproductive.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:45:55 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

Why the hell would Galz claim VT at the start of D2?
Galzria explained his reasoning, and while I disagree with it, doing the thing first is way less scummy than what DatSwan did, and DatSwan was never able to give any coherent reasoning.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 02:47:21 am
And frankly, Galzria: huntig for 1 scum in a set of 3 has worse odds then hunting for 3 scum in a set of 7.

1 in 2, and 2 in 4 is better.
Yes, but not even by much, and that rests on a bunch of assumptions already.

Can you present a case on chairs other than votecounts?

I'll pull everything in a bit, sure. But votes are huge. It's the loudest action one can make publicly. Tracking known town's votes against possible town's votes is invaluable. The chances above that all 8 comprised the total 8 that were possibly town is crazy slim, albeit yes, not impossible.
Well I disagree (shocker). Looking at votes without context can be a good place to start, but not more.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 03:10:43 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

Why the hell would Galz claim VT at the start of D2?
Galzria explained his reasoning, and while I disagree with it, doing the thing first is way less scummy than what DatSwan did, and DatSwan was never able to give any coherent reasoning.

Don't make me go and pull the quote from earlier today on my phone man lol
something like " you all know each other, I don't. Me claiming was the best way I could think of to be able to help my team without getting myself lynched"

I would like to further that now.. I did not do it "lightly". I did consider the choice. I considered that hopefully my reasoning would be taken seriously without having my team mates (yeah i am still saying it like that) waste time on considering me as skum. Obv that did not work as the IC is against me at this point, so woops... but I can't go back.
I also considered the possibility that I would get lynched as coming off as "too straightforward". I decided to take advantage of that by making sure to go after those I believed to be skum without worry of what would happen to me because of how it would read if i go and when I flip VT (did it again).






Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 03:11:48 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

Why the hell would Galz claim VT at the start of D2?
Galzria explained his reasoning, and while I disagree with it, doing the thing first is way less scummy than what DatSwan did, and DatSwan was never able to give any coherent reasoning.

Seriously? They're exactly the same amount of not-good/scummy!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 03:12:55 am
Or not-scummy, depending on how you feel about the whole thing. I happen to think Galz is scum and DatSwan is town, but not because of the claims.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 03:15:19 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

This reads a lot like someone trying to pile opinions with an opponent that has said they view them as skummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 03:36:57 am
And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!
The thing is:

If DatSwan is indeed town, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense!

Why the hell would Galz claim VT at the start of D2?
Galzria explained his reasoning, and while I disagree with it, doing the thing first is way less scummy than what DatSwan did, and DatSwan was never able to give any coherent reasoning.

Seriously? They're exactly the same amount of not-good/scummy!
They're the same amount of not-good. They're not the same amount of scummy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 03:38:53 am
Or not-scummy, depending on how you feel about the whole thing. I happen to think Galz is scum and DatSwan is town, but not because of the claims.
Then why do you think DatSwan is town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 03:47:52 am
Vote Count 3.4

faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
DatSwan (3): faust, Teproc, chairs
chairs (2): Galzria, Skumpy
Not voting (2): Roadrunner7671, Xxraptorslayer96

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 23, 2017, 04:00:42 am
I don't think we should wait until 30 minutes before deadline to lynch. It's better if we get the lynch before, and Andrew and XXR should leaves their votes expecting the day to end before then... it seems to me that this is the case for Andrew already.

It's good to know that they will be there in case we need them to get a lynch through. But XXR should be voting right now, you don't get to wait for everyone else to nicely take position for you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 04:03:42 am
Or not-scummy, depending on how you feel about the whole thing. I happen to think Galz is scum and DatSwan is town, but not because of the claims.
Then why do you think DatSwan is town?

Well it has to do with how DatSwan was responding to Galz a while back, but it's partly based on my scum read on Galz so I guess that doesn't do much for you. Also yeah you're right about the claims not being the same amount of scummy. But I believe DatSwan's claim was a newbie mistake and I'm giving it a pass.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 04:04:39 am
Request prod on RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 04:05:03 am
Or not-scummy, depending on how you feel about the whole thing. I happen to think Galz is scum and DatSwan is town, but not because of the claims.
Then why do you think DatSwan is town?

Well it has to do with how DatSwan was responding to Galz a while back, but it's partly based on my scum read on Galz so I guess that doesn't do much for you. Also yeah you're right about the claims not being the same amount of scummy. But I believe DatSwan's claim was a newbie mistake and I'm giving it a pass.
D3 is not the time for newbie passes.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 04:06:36 am
Also it is probably a bad idea to derive all your reads from one single read on Galzria that may very well be wrong. I mean, I agree that it doesn't make a ton of sense for Galz and DatSwan to be scum together, but both can still be scummy individually.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 04:07:36 am
Request prod on RR

Not eligible.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 04:41:20 am
Not asking for a newbie pass... again... I feel like I made my reasoning quite clear really. It may have been newbish reasoning, in which case, whatever I suck, but my reasoning at the time of the choice has not changed and furthermore I do not think that it was a bad call. It did not have the effects I hoped it would as at the first impasse it is being brought up all it is doing is taking away focus from other skum. But in the end, if everyone goes back and re reads (and makes the hard RR or chairs choice) I am confident that even if I lynch I will get that cool green text for my signature.

Additionally, have to point out that there are two players doing an EXTREMELY good job of keeping the focus/hate on me rn at eod 3
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 23, 2017, 05:32:59 am
Read through day 3 for the like the umpteenth time. Still nothing. Are we sure there's 3 scum?

Let's say it's neither Chairs nor RR. The possible teams then become (since I'm not scum)
Faust/XX/Galzria
Faust/XX/Andrew
Faust/XX/DatSwan
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Galzria/DatSwan/
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Galzria/DatSwan
XX/Andrew/DatSWan
Galzria/Andrew/DatSwan

So let's start eliminating!
As I said, I don't think anymore that it's Faust and XX, the Raptor vote on faust is just way too dangerous, so those can go away. Down to 7...
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Galzria/DatSwan/
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Galzria/DatSwan
XX/Andrew/DatSWan
Galzria/Andrew/DatSwan

Galzria and DatSwan claiming VT the same day, 3 IRL days apart? That's risky and strange. Down to 4...
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Andrew/DatSwan

Now it's tougher to eliminate (Andrew, if you trust I'm town, you can skip to the bottom now).
Could Andrew and Galzria have been staging their conflict this entire time? Are Andrew and DatSwan really going to buddy-buddy so hard that they're not going to get suspected? If you answered no to both these questions, congrats, you have not won a new car! But maybe you didn't, so let's reconsider all of them.

Team 1: So they've all voted for each other except Faust for Andrew. That's a lot of bussing, but they are vets. If they wanted to pull something off at the expense of us newbies, they could. Was the plan to get faust killed quickly, then Galzria called an audible when things worked out nicely. Possibly? It did take a while for Galz to get convinced. There's a lot working against this team.

Team 2: So 7 town voted for Robz. Well then. That's really bad if that's what happened. Two of them were away, do keep in mind. Also, this team features the faust vs DatSwan beef. They are fighting hard to get each other lynched, and I don't think faust would be so willing to take the fall here and trust Andrew and DatSwan to carry out the rest of the game against Galzria and co. It is very close to happening as it is.

Team 3: Back again to Galzria vs Andrew. Remember XX's very first vote was on Galz, there could have been instructions there. XX and Andrew haven't interacted much; then again, XX hasn't interacted much with anybody. Andrew's also been pushing against XX, is he the kind of the guy to try and get BOTH of his teammates lynched?

Team 4: And we have the only possible team with both XX and DatSwan. Is the reason we're struggling so much the fact that we can't figure out XX and DatSwan? Those 2 have defended each other and come after me. And Andrew and DatSwan have too, and they're both on faust, and they were both on Galzria, and.... OK, this isn't looking good actually. There is quite suddenly definitely a case here, I'm realizing. I doubt Andrew would make for a good coach (sorry man), so if neither XX nor DatSwan seems to have been coached, this is a reasonable explanation. Let's just say "No, this isn't the team" just to move on...



Long story short, the plan was to eliminate all 10 teams above. That means that one of Chairs and RR must be scum, if not both, so I propose we focus voting there and narrow the lynch pool down to 2. If we're wrong today, we can get the other tomorrow. The only issue is, as I now see, that last team could potentially be correct, or is at least the most likely of the 10. If anybody has a very good counter to why the team is not Andrew/DatSwan/XX, please speak up (since none of DatSwan, Andrew, and XX are currently voting for either RR or Chairs, that's hopefully convincing enough to get up to 5 votes between the two of them, since Galzria and I already there). I think we should still get one of Chairs and RR today, then depending on who's killed, figure out a potential common denominator of all remaining teams and get them.

I'll be back in 7ish hours, I'll be around till deadline, won't have a lot of sleep though. Staying on Chairs for now. I strongly suspect I'll be the night kill since everybody's trusting me, so if I'm not around to see the light of day tomorrow, please, don't let me have died in vain. Finish my work!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 05:44:57 am
I don't think we should wait until 30 minutes before deadline to lynch. It's better if we get the lynch before, and Andrew and XXR should leaves their votes expecting the day to end before then... it seems to me that this is the case for Andrew already.

It's good to know that they will be there in case we need them to get a lynch through. But XXR should be voting right now, you don't get to wait for everyone else to nicely take position for you.

I will be around. But agreed we shouldn't wait

Vote: Faust -same reason as before, I do not believe that his claims are true.

Not voting DatSwan b/c other then his premature claim I don't think he has done anything scummy. I can be wrong about him, hard to be unbiased ngl.

Not voting chairs b/c just not 100% sure what to think of him. Gut feeling he is scum. I think he's just all over the place with his votes. And it's a similar situation at skumpy.

I'll be around leading to deadline. Willing to change my vote to see a Lynch.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 23, 2017, 05:48:42 am
Actually, let's switch to a Vote: RR to keep things interesting. I'll read back later and decide who I find more scummy. Happy to change back to Chairs as of right now, that may not be the case tomorrow depending on who votes...

Also XX, I was kinda hoping you would, uh, consider my ideas more. So be it. I'll be back later. ¡Chao!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 05:54:40 am
Read through day 3 for the like the umpteenth time. Still nothing. Are we sure there's 3 scum?

Let's say it's neither Chairs nor RR. The possible teams then become (since I'm not scum)
Faust/XX/Galzria
Faust/XX/Andrew
Faust/XX/DatSwan
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Galzria/DatSwan/
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Galzria/DatSwan
XX/Andrew/DatSWan
Galzria/Andrew/DatSwan

So let's start eliminating!
As I said, I don't think anymore that it's Faust and XX, the Raptor vote on faust is just way too dangerous, so those can go away. Down to 7...
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Galzria/DatSwan/
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Galzria/DatSwan
XX/Andrew/DatSWan
Galzria/Andrew/DatSwan

Galzria and DatSwan claiming VT the same day, 3 IRL days apart? That's risky and strange. Down to 4...
Faust/Galzria/Andrew
Faust/Andrew/DatSwan
XX/Galzria/Andrew
XX/Andrew/DatSwan

Now it's tougher to eliminate (Andrew, if you trust I'm town, you can skip to the bottom now).
Could Andrew and Galzria have been staging their conflict this entire time? Are Andrew and DatSwan really going to buddy-buddy so hard that they're not going to get suspected? If you answered no to both these questions, congrats, you have not won a new car! But maybe you didn't, so let's reconsider all of them.

Team 1: So they've all voted for each other except Faust for Andrew. That's a lot of bussing, but they are vets. If they wanted to pull something off at the expense of us newbies, they could. Was the plan to get faust killed quickly, then Galzria called an audible when things worked out nicely. Possibly? It did take a while for Galz to get convinced. There's a lot working against this team.

Team 2: So 7 town voted for Robz. Well then. That's really bad if that's what happened. Two of them were away, do keep in mind. Also, this team features the faust vs DatSwan beef. They are fighting hard to get each other lynched, and I don't think faust would be so willing to take the fall here and trust Andrew and DatSwan to carry out the rest of the game against Galzria and co. It is very close to happening as it is.

Team 3: Back again to Galzria vs Andrew. Remember XX's very first vote was on Galz, there could have been instructions there. XX and Andrew haven't interacted much; then again, XX hasn't interacted much with anybody. Andrew's also been pushing against XX, is he the kind of the guy to try and get BOTH of his teammates lynched?

Team 4: And we have the only possible team with both XX and DatSwan. Is the reason we're struggling so much the fact that we can't figure out XX and DatSwan? Those 2 have defended each other and come after me. And Andrew and DatSwan have too, and they're both on faust, and they were both on Galzria, and.... OK, this isn't looking good actually. There is quite suddenly definitely a case here, I'm realizing. I doubt Andrew would make for a good coach (sorry man), so if neither XX nor DatSwan seems to have been coached, this is a reasonable explanation. Let's just say "No, this isn't the team" just to move on...



Long story short, the plan was to eliminate all 10 teams above. That means that one of Chairs and RR must be scum, if not both, so I propose we focus voting there and narrow the lynch pool down to 2. If we're wrong today, we can get the other tomorrow. The only issue is, as I now see, that last team could potentially be correct, or is at least the most likely of the 10. If anybody has a very good counter to why the team is not Andrew/DatSwan/XX, please speak up (since none of DatSwan, Andrew, and XX are currently voting for either RR or Chairs, that's hopefully convincing enough to get up to 5 votes between the two of them, since Galzria and I already there). I think we should still get one of Chairs and RR today, then depending on who's killed, figure out a potential common denominator of all remaining teams and get them.

I'll be back in 7ish hours, I'll be around till deadline, won't have a lot of sleep though. Staying on Chairs for now. I strongly suspect I'll be the night kill since everybody's trusting me, so if I'm not around to see the light of day tomorrow, please, don't let me have died in vain. Finish my work!

I had a "in case I get lynched make sure to read this when I flip" post written out.... but this is just better. I am not even going to defend the cases made against me on the points they are. Just read it and consider it. Well written.

The only point I would like to add is that the most important thing today is we do not go into MYLO tomorrow. I agree with the RR/Chairs concept obv
Another thing to be considered, if you have a PR to keep someone alive, and we actually lynch correctly tonight, you should save it. 9 today, with 6-3 means if we go to D4 5-2. As long as I understand the rules correctly, this forces a D5. Whatever power you have now on night 3 will be more important on night 4, because if we do good they cannot get us on D4.
I feel like the amount of info revealed from today's decision gives us a much better chance than anything else revealed thus far. Just think things through.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 06:13:03 am
Read through day 3 for the like the umpteenth time. Still nothing. Are we sure there's 3 scum?

Let's say it's neither Chairs nor RR. The possible teams then become (since I'm not scum)

Team 4: And we have the only possible team with both XX and DatSwan. Is the reason we're struggling so much the fact that we can't figure out XX and DatSwan? Those 2 have defended each other and come after me. And Andrew and DatSwan have too, and they're both on faust, and they were both on Galzria, and.... OK, this isn't looking good actually. There is quite suddenly definitely a case here, I'm realizing. I doubt Andrew would make for a good coach (sorry man), so if neither XX nor DatSwan seems to have been coached, this is a reasonable explanation. Let's just say "No, this isn't the team" just to move on...



Long story short, the plan was to eliminate all 10 teams above. That means that one of Chairs and RR must be scum, if not both, so I propose we focus voting there and narrow the lynch pool down to 2. If we're wrong today, we can get the other tomorrow. The only issue is, as I now see, that last team could potentially be correct, or is at least the most likely of the 10. If anybody has a very good counter to why the team is not Andrew/DatSwan/XX, please speak up (since none of DatSwan, Andrew, and XX are currently voting for either RR or Chairs, that's hopefully convincing enough to get up to 5 votes between the two of them, since Galzria and I already there). I think we should still get one of Chairs and RR today, then depending on who's killed, figure out a potential common denominator of all remaining teams and get them.

I'll be back in 7ish hours, I'll be around till deadline, won't have a lot of sleep though. Staying on Chairs for now. I strongly suspect I'll be the night kill since everybody's trusting me, so if I'm not around to see the light of day tomorrow, please, don't let me have died in vain. Finish my work!

Hears my two cents if it matters: I am town.

I was lumped in with Datswan b/c the twin claim. I think the real life connection makes it easy to defend eachoyher. For the record don't think I ever really defended him. I'm put between a rock and a hard place voting for something I truly thing is town. If he is lynched and flips scum I suck and deserve to be lynched.

I'm null on Andrew, no real interaction.

Or skumpy pushes for the only ones who have pushed for him? Probably not that's too simple.


Conclusion: will vote datswan or Andrew to please the crowd but feel it unnecessary
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 06:14:26 am

Also XX, I was kinda hoping you would, uh, consider my ideas more. So be it. I'll be back later. ¡Chao!

Sorry I forgot to PPE my first post.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 06:42:04 am
Vote Count 3.5

faust (3): AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan, Xxraptorslayer96
DatSwan (3): faust, Teproc, chairs
chairs (1): Galzria
Roadrunner7671 (1): Skumpy
Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2017, 07:41:18 am
Um, can we lynch one of DatSwan/Xx now please?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 23, 2017, 08:05:12 am
I should be around for the deadline, my only commitment today is 4 hours before it so I think I'm okay. I don't know how long before it I'll be around though, I might pop in pretty late.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 23, 2017, 08:57:55 am
I should be around for the deadline, my only commitment today is 4 hours before it so I think I'm okay. I don't know how long before it I'll be around though, I might pop in pretty late.

Who do you think is scum ? Vote for them, now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 23, 2017, 08:58:29 am
I gues that was an hour ago almost, ugh.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Teproc on August 23, 2017, 08:58:58 am
Vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 12:09:43 pm
I should be around for the deadline, my only commitment today is 4 hours before it so I think I'm okay. I don't know how long before it I'll be around though, I might pop in pretty late.

vote: RR

Still think I prefer Chairs overall, but c'mon man... there's no effort here and it's killing us if you're town.

Here until deadline.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Swowl on August 23, 2017, 01:04:17 pm
vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 01:14:58 pm
L-1
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2017, 01:15:34 pm
1h 45m to deadline
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: chairs on August 23, 2017, 01:20:01 pm
vote: RR

I don't know if I'll be around anymore today and I don't want us to miss a lynch here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 01:20:48 pm
Not my top choice but Vote: RR
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 23, 2017, 01:21:07 pm
Chairs beat me
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 23, 2017, 01:22:21 pm
Just finished rereading re-cursorySkimming RR (47 posts total including /in; people should really post less, it make it a lot easier) and Chairs.

RR's not very townie, but it keeps coming back to Skumpy Doesn't Know How Anybody Plays! Like Jake, I imagine it's his MO to be scummy in nature, but there's just no strong stances, especially today. Nobody's also really built a case against him like they did Jake, 2 of the notable exceptions being TWM and Jake, who I trust are town assuming we buried the correct bodies. Chairs doesn't rub off on me much better. He seems a little townies than RR, but he's also like twice his age which makes it really tough since that means Chairs has lied twice as much in his lifetime.

Posting now because there's no more to say since he just got lynched
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 23, 2017, 01:23:13 pm
I'm a little concerned that DatSwan trusted my idea so fully when he suspected me of being scum. If you think I'm town, I'd like to think my post was convincing. If you don't, then it probably shouldn't have been....
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 23, 2017, 01:23:39 pm
Damnit, missed it by like 2 mins. Well, good morning everyone!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Skumpy on August 23, 2017, 01:24:25 pm
 And apologies to all if I fucked up. That's now 2 people I've gotten lynched, and I really hope it's not 0/2.

And good morning to you Andrew!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 01:26:42 pm
Thread locked
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 01:27:28 pm
Vc and flavor will be here in 3-4 hours till I am not home and also posting from the phone
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2017, 01:32:24 pm
Roadrunner7671 was lynched! He was Moving to a different location!

Night ends in 48 hrs. Deadline for night actions in 47.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 24, 2017, 12:51:46 pm
Vote Count 3.final

faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96
DatSwan (1): faust
Roadrunner7671 (5): Skumpy, Teproc, Galzria, DatSwan, chairs
Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 25, 2017, 01:00:57 pm
Today was the first day of LaLight's life when his best friend didn't call. Where was he? We'll never know.

faust was killed in the night! He was a Responsible Friend!

Day 4 starts now and ends Friday, 1st of September at 1 pm.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 25, 2017, 01:01:39 pm
Vote Count 4.0

Not voting (7): Skumpy, Teproc, Galzria, DatSwan, chairs, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2017, 01:16:05 pm
Damn. Well, it was the right kill choice for scum, but I had hoped Faust would block it and save himself.

So I thought we would get the full flip on RR based on getting it when Gkrieg flipped. I was not aware that modifiable flavor roles were not revealed. So unfortunately we learn nothing regarding mod5 with RR's death. Although if it's on (and I'm understanding cop enabler correctly) then a potential UB is now a VT with a single nights result (N2).

I'll have a little time for this now, next to none later, maybe a little tonight, and then Raptor, DatSwan and I will have absolutely nothing all of Saturday.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 01:21:47 pm
Well, good to know I will end this game without mislynching faust. I would've owed him a sincere apology.

Also, Galzria, I saw your post, but I didn't want to clutter up DGHunter's thread with chum stuff. I'm like halfway between SJ and SF.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2017, 01:24:17 pm
Well, good to know I will end this game without mislynching faust. I would've owed him a sincere apology.

Also, Galzria, I saw your post, but I didn't want to clutter up DGHunter's thread with chum stuff. I'm like halfway between SJ and SF.

I added myself to the members map right after making the post.  I had forgotten that there are a could of us in this area (O, ftl)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2017, 01:27:13 pm
Well, good to know I will end this game without mislynching faust. I would've owed him a sincere apology.

Also, Galzria, I saw your post, but I didn't want to clutter up DGHunter's thread with chum stuff. I'm like halfway between SJ and SF.

It's hard to drop a read. It took a lot for me to step back and find a reason for him to be town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 01:32:06 pm
Well, at least now that faust is gone, I can change my signature back    ;)

I don't know if 6 qualifies as a cloud could (also I don't know who ftl is and judging by his profile, he's not around here anymore anyways). In any event, I'm back off to school in a couple weeks so I'll be out of the could shortly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 02:22:35 pm
One more reread of day 3 later, my takeaway is I need to do another reread. I also keep reading everything Galzria says as town, then I mentally slap myself and remind myself that I definitely can't be assuming that.

Some other thoughts:
Now that we know there's a flavor cop, it's time to seriously consider a massclaim. Night 1, I suspect that either Galzria is the Flavor Cop or scum stumbled upon a VT. Otherwise, they wouldn't have killed TWM (I doubt they wasted their time investigating Jake). Night 2, if they didn't investigate faust, then they know somebody's role for sure. Night 3 is tough to say.

I don't think we're going to get anything out of trying to figure out who faust roleblocked last night. Obviously, he suspected DatSwan, but whereas I disagreed with his logic that I would commit the night kill night 2, I have to admit it would make sense here if DatSwan is the nonFlavor Cop scum, but decided to not commit the kill since he'd be roleblocked. But then again, faust would know that and would block somebody else and we're playing the WIFOM game again.

Also, now I know there was an all-town wagon on Jake day 1. I don't really like how scum is methodically hunting down everybody from that wagon...

I think I've got 2 suspects in mind, and I've got a 70% chance of being right on one, but I'm not saying yet because
a) I was wrong day 3 on an instant callout (though it did work in the end!)
b) I think I'm wrong now
c) I'm waiting for Teproc to post first since I'm now realizing that other than his accusation of me, his reads have been pretty spot on (and if he trusts I'm town, then we have the same information). 
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 02:33:12 pm
Oh, one more thing. I know I probably won't be getting lynched today and Teproc doesn't like it when I defend myself, but if anyone still suspects I'm skum:

I mentioned twice on day 2 that I had picked up on something nobody else had. This is what it was.

But even if there is, suppose I'm Precise Alarm Clock (Doctor, mod 1)

A) I'm the doctor (mod 1 is working). In which case, I claim doctor, and either IC myself or set up a WIFOM with 1 scum.

B) I'm the not-doctor (mod 1 is not working). In which case, I can claim "I ain't no doc, but I know nobody here ain't no doc neither!" Which again either IC's myself or sets up a WIFOM.

Wouldn't this just instantly clear like half the town? Am I missing something?

You are missing that if there is no player with the flavor name Precise Alarm Clock if the modification1 is no active. Instead, an additional Good Memories (VT) is added. So it is not possible for a single player to claim "not-Doctor", and it is possible for scum to fakelclaim since they know exactly what modifications are present.

Which is strange because the flavor name is Good Memory, not Good Memories, as faust incorrectly stated. If you were a VT and you saw in your QT 'Good Memory' in giant green letters, you're not going to forget it. Obviously, he could be a PR, but there were only 2.5 expected PRs for town, versus 3 for scum. The odds were against him, and I'm very sorry I didn't get a chance to point this out yesterday and maybe save Jake. Sadly, it does us no good today.

faust, who did you roleblock night 1?

If I was Skum, I would've had faust killed in the night when I realized he had a role. Yet he lived. Twice.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 02:36:11 pm
Some other thoughts:
Now that we know there's a flavor cop, it's time to seriously consider a massclaim. Night 1, I suspect that either Galzria is the Flavor Cop or scum stumbled upon a VT. Otherwise, they wouldn't have killed TWM (I doubt they wasted their time investigating Jake). Night 2, if they didn't investigate faust, then they know somebody's role for sure. Night 3 is tough to say.

Do you mean that you think Galzria was the Flavor Cop target N1 ? Why ?

Also I would appreciate if you stopped harping on me voting for you 5 hours into day 1. I get that this is your first game, but getting suspected is normal, and not worth obsessing over when it doesn't last.

I'll take a massclaim under consideration. People who might want to claim should hold off for now, unless they have a scum result (to clarify for the newbies: tracker who saw someone target faust last night, backup-cop who got a scum result they trust or Watcher who targeted faust last night).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 02:36:39 pm
Well, "harping on" is not quite right, but you knwo what I mean.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 02:50:28 pm
Some other thoughts:
Now that we know there's a flavor cop, it's time to seriously consider a massclaim. Night 1, I suspect that either Galzria is the Flavor Cop or scum stumbled upon a VT. Otherwise, they wouldn't have killed TWM (I doubt they wasted their time investigating Jake). Night 2, if they didn't investigate faust, then they know somebody's role for sure. Night 3 is tough to say.

Do you mean that you think Galzria was the Flavor Cop target N1 ? Why ?

Also I would appreciate if you stopped harping on me voting for you 5 hours into day 1. I get that this is your first game, but getting suspected is normal, and not worth obsessing over when it doesn't last.

I'll take a massclaim under consideration. People who might want to claim should hold off for now, unless they have a scum result (to clarify for the newbies: tracker who saw someone target faust last night, backup-cop who got a scum result they trust or Watcher who targeted faust last night).

No, that he is the flavor cop. Because a VT was killed night 2, either they found a VT night 1 and had no information to go off, or they literally had no information at all because their Flavor Cop was roleblocked.

I only brought up you voting me because, as far as I can remember, it's your only read that's been incorrect this game. It's a compliment! Heck, maybe faust's reads were right and you voted 3 scum yesterday!

While I agree on the watcher/tracker with info, I'd leave the Cop out of it since, as you said yourself, it's only one result that could have been psychotrooped. More likely than not it wasn't, but that's not urgent info we need.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 03:01:12 pm
On top of other stuff, I think yesterday's read reversal on faust should make you reconsider a scum read on Galz.

It's urgent in the sense that they could get NKed, and sometimes Cop results that seem useless are useful (we almost won one of the setup's previous iterations that way).

I think a massclaim is good. Thinking about the order currently.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 03:07:53 pm
Let's go with:

XXRaptor
chairs
Andrew
DatSwan
Skumpy

For those not aware of how a massclaim works: I'm asking people to claim their role and results in this order. So XXRaptor, you're up first.

I'll ask that people do not comment on what they think of people's claims until we get through all of it. Feel free to comment on other stuff though: specficially everyone should reread RR and look at his interactions, as well as other people's interactions with him.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 03:09:42 pm
I assume you mean I should reconsider him and think him town now?

First, I never said I suspected him of being scum, he's not at the top of my list anyways. Second, it's a dangerous play to put Galzria in the "OK, you're clean" zone. He knows it too.

Before ordering a massclaim (PPE: you just did), I would see where everybody else stands on it first. I'm still on the fence, but I think I like it a little more than not.

PPE: DatSwan's already claimed VT, so you can leave him off the list
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 03:12:27 pm
I'm not saying Galzria is definitely town. I'm saying there is a lot of evidence to suggest he is.

I don't care about what people think of a massclaim, it's obvious to me that it's time to do it and I don't want to waste too much time on it.

Right, DatSwan is a VT, forgot about that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 03:15:23 pm
The thing is: Galz reversing his read on faust is pretty ballsy as scum if he did that. Which, Galz is a ballsy scum player, definitely, but still. You're making a lynch you really, really want to happen much harder and enabling a possible scum lynch.  Not to mention he did not hesitate to get on the RR wagon. That's pretty overwhelming... I'm willing to hear arguments that Galz is scum, but they'll need to be pretty damn convincing as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 25, 2017, 03:19:11 pm
Well, good to know I will end this game without mislynching faust. I would've owed him a sincere apology.

Also, Galzria, I saw your post, but I didn't want to clutter up DGHunter's thread with chum stuff. I'm like halfway between SJ and SF.

Check my post!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 25, 2017, 03:24:56 pm
I've never heard of Capitola, probably because I don't get out of the house much. Sounds like a lovely town though.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 25, 2017, 03:31:28 pm
The thing is: Galz reversing his read on faust is pretty ballsy as scum if he did that. Which, Galz is a ballsy scum player, definitely, but still. You're making a lynch you really, really want to happen much harder and enabling a possible scum lynch.  Not to mention he did not hesitate to get on the RR wagon. That's pretty overwhelming... I'm willing to hear arguments that Galz is scum, but they'll need to be pretty damn convincing as far as I'm concerned.

I see what you mean but hesitating on a scum lynch would be pretty telling after the fact. I think his best option as scum would be to sheep the IC and bus his partner for cred. That said, maybe we should look elsewhere today but I don't think this clears him.

Not sure about the massclaim. What exactly do you hope to achieve with it besides satisfying your curiosity?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 03:32:53 pm
Well, scum most likely knows everything there is to know already. Might as well force them to chose what they want to claim now rather than on their own terms.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 25, 2017, 04:19:17 pm
Well, scum most likely knows everything there is to know already. Might as well force them to chose what they want to claim now rather than on their own terms.

I think they've probably figured out their fakeclaims already. How does a massclaim benefit town?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 25, 2017, 05:50:11 pm
I am not familiar with how a mass claim works in this context. You are asking for, in the order given, for people to claim their role? Does this include PRs?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: chairs on August 25, 2017, 05:53:19 pm
I am not familiar with how a mass claim works in this context. You are asking for, in the order given, for people to claim their role? Does this include PRs?

That's.. pretty much the gameplan, yup.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 25, 2017, 05:57:05 pm
that is an unhelpful answer. Do PR roles go on the post?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: chairs on August 25, 2017, 05:58:15 pm
that is an unhelpful answer. Do PR roles go on the post?

Yes.

You also claim your actions.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 06:08:01 pm
Yes. You claim your role and actions.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 06:08:51 pm
Please don't let this prevent you from doing the usual stuff: in this case rereading RR and looking at interactions between him and other people to find his partners.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 25, 2017, 06:12:55 pm
Well, scum most likely knows everything there is to know already. Might as well force them to chose what they want to claim now rather than on their own terms.

I think they've probably figured out their fakeclaims already. How does a massclaim benefit town?

It's information that scum already has (remember: they know the setup and have had 3 uses of flavor cop + 2 VT claims to PoE PRs) so we might as well get it out there... and yes, scum most likely knows what they want to claim, but they have to commit now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 26, 2017, 05:50:33 am
Well, scum most likely knows everything there is to know already. Might as well force them to chose what they want to claim now rather than on their own terms.

I think they've probably figured out their fakeclaims already. How does a massclaim benefit town?

It's information that scum already has (remember: they know the setup and have had 3 uses of flavor cop + 2 VT claims to PoE PRs) so we might as well get it out there... and yes, scum most likely knows what they want to claim, but they have to commit now.
Minus whatever was blocked by Faust of course. And since we have had deaths all nights....
 with the exception of last night, we know know it is likely he missed skum on the first two nights. Or I guess hit a skum not carrying out a kill and blocked a pr.
When I look at it I wanna say that he wouldn't of blocked me because in his head I was too obv of a choice.... so if I were skum who would Faust think my partner to be? Bc I feel like that is who he would of blocked and obv that person isn't skum if Faust is dead.

Going to re read tomorrow and let you know what I think
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 26, 2017, 06:23:33 am
Whoever faust blocked last night might still be scum, because there are still two scum around.

Also, the whole point of massclaiming is that we can discuss that with actual info, so let's postpone that. If you're looking for stuff to do, I'll redirect you to RR.

Not sure how no one has come up with a RR reread yet. That's, like, mafia 101: scum flips, you reread them and see what that brings you.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 26, 2017, 06:24:54 am
I guess you said you would. Still worth noting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 26, 2017, 11:46:27 am
I've just realized the twinclaimers all have a V/LA, that explains the lack of activity here I suppose.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 26, 2017, 02:04:27 pm
Whoever faust blocked last night might still be scum, because there are still two scum around.

Also, the whole point of massclaiming is that we can discuss that with actual info, so let's postpone that. If you're looking for stuff to do, I'll redirect you to RR.

Not sure how no one has come up with a RR reread yet. That's, like, mafia 101: scum flips, you reread them and see what that brings you.

I've been busy and this weekend will be busy too. I'll probably get around to it on Monday.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 27, 2017, 12:39:32 pm
Galz, datSwan and I should be move active today. On my way into work. Give me an hour to get settled and I'll type out clam and actions
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: chairs on August 27, 2017, 01:43:27 pm
Sorry about not posting yesterday, I couldn't log in. Will catch up shortly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: chairs on August 27, 2017, 01:55:02 pm
Okay, looks like I'm still waiting on raptor to claim before I'm supposed to. I'll check back later.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 27, 2017, 04:20:04 pm
Sorry i got caughtup guys. I am the Time Management Training.  I tracked DatSwan N1, he didn't go anywhere. I tracked Faust N2 and he visited Chairs. N3 i tracked Galz and he did not go anywhere.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 04:27:02 pm
Faust targeted Me N1. He targeted Skumpy N2. Not Chairs.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 04:28:17 pm
There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 04:32:13 pm
Don't snap lynch.

Tep, we finishing claims?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 04:37:14 pm
Can somebody not as lazy as me produce a short vote history for each player throughout the game (better yet if it includes "stated would vote but hasn't")? If not I'll get around to looking at the people I'm most interested in at some point today. Deadline is 3:00pm forum time tomorrow though.

Skumpy: The problem, as you've noted, is the lack of any sort of consensus amongst town players. I'll lynch anybody except Teproc, Me, or you. My preferred order is pretty clear by now (Chairs, RR, Raptor?, DatSwan, Andrew, Faust*) - and Faust is only not #1 based entirely on that single post (Teproc's read plays a small part. At the very least I know it's not disingenuous, even if it's not right).

Here's a question for those interested in considering it (easier for Faust and I)

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

This is the end of day vote:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

<3
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 27, 2017, 04:41:50 pm
Kinda wish you hadn't said anything so we could see what he's up to the rest of the day.

I've got some comments two, but I'll hold off for now. I agree with Galzria, I motion that we suspend the massclaim until his Honor Teproc instructs otherwise.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 04:47:26 pm
Kinda wish you hadn't said anything so we could see what he's up to the rest of the day.

I've got some comments two, but I'll hold off for now. I agree with Galzria, I motion that we suspend the massclaim until his Honor Teproc instructs otherwise.

While I get the sentiment, it wasn't going to go un-pointed out.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 27, 2017, 05:04:40 pm
Don't snap lynch.

Tep, we finishing claims?

Yes. chairs is up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 27, 2017, 05:34:54 pm
Feel free to ask questions when claims are done
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 27, 2017, 05:38:34 pm
Feel free to ask questions when claims are done

Eh, I think you can talk now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 27, 2017, 07:03:12 pm
There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor

I mean not saying I am not on your side here... but we can be essentially as sure that "faust targeted skumpy" as we can be that "raptor targeted faust...."
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: chairs on August 27, 2017, 07:16:58 pm
There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor

I mean not saying I am not on your side here... but we can be essentially as sure that "faust targeted skumpy" as we can be that "raptor targeted faust...."

We know faust is Town, so we don't have any reason to believe he lied.

I'm a VT.

vote: raptor.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 07:32:34 pm
There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor

I mean not saying I am not on your side here... but we can be essentially as sure that "faust targeted skumpy" as we can be that "raptor targeted faust...."

There is no scenario where N2 Raptor tracked Faust and saw him target Chairs. Faust targeted Skumpy N2. We know this because Faust told us as much and was town. There is no possibility worth considering that Faust lied about his actions, so...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 27, 2017, 07:48:51 pm
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 07:52:28 pm
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Why DatSwan N2 and not me (in particular, but also anybody else)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 07:55:37 pm
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Why DatSwan N2 and not me (in particular, but also anybody else)

Regardless this makes DatSwan an IC (assuming Raptor is scum). Sweet.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 07:56:30 pm
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Why DatSwan N2 and not me (in particular, but also anybody else)

Regardless this makes DatSwan an IC (assuming Raptor is scum). Sweet.

Small chance RR Psycho'd that night.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 27, 2017, 08:02:28 pm
Well, I guess it's just me left.

I am Playing Games till 3am on Wednesday, the mafia Flavor Copping 2-shot Roleblocker
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 27, 2017, 08:03:18 pm
Oh wait, I’m supposed to make up a town claim. Sorry I forgot. Total brain fart by me.

I would really love to lie and say I’m a VT and keep my identity secret. Unfortunately, since I’m assuming all town has told the truth and scum knows my role through deduction, I guess there’s no point to holding back.

I am Dr. Skumpy, MD.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2017, 08:47:31 pm
So claimed on:

MOD 1
MOD 2 * confirmed
MOD 3
MOD 5
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 27, 2017, 10:31:23 pm
Skumpy your logic doesn't follow... if liars are claiming Town. How do we deduce your role. You wanna help out. Claim like everyone else.

vote: skumpy
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 27, 2017, 10:35:04 pm
Skumpy your logic doesn't follow... if liars are claiming Town. How do we deduce your role. You wanna help out. Claim like everyone else.

vote: skumpy

Hate to be that guy. But he claimed already.. he's the Doctor.

Vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 27, 2017, 11:14:31 pm
Skumpy your logic doesn't follow... if liars are claiming Town. How do we deduce your role. You wanna help out. Claim like everyone else.

vote: skumpy

Hate to be that guy. But he claimed already.. he's the Doctor.

Vote: DatSwan

So you think I'm lying?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Swowl on August 28, 2017, 02:00:57 am
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Did I have a PR when you investigated me or did I come up as VT?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 28, 2017, 02:06:28 am
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Did I have a PR when you investigated me or did I come up as VT?

My result only said "town-aligned".
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 28, 2017, 02:09:10 am
I'm the UB aka Cop.

N2 I investigated DatSwan, he's town. Hence why I was strongly expressing my "townread" on him.

N3 I investigated Galzria, no result.

Did I have a PR when you investigated me or did I come up as VT?

That's not how that works. Universal Backup (UB) inherits the first town PR ability to die - That would be Gkrieg, the Alignment Cop.

Alignment Cop gives Town/Mafia results only, not role. In this game, if UB is active, Cop Enabler (scum) is also active.  Cop Enabler must be alive for Cop to work. The only player that could be Cop Enabler was RR (The default scum psychotrooper). He died Day 3 to lynch.

So the claim is as follows:
D1: Andrew had no power
N1: Gkrieg was killed
D2: Andrew inherited Cop power
N2: Andrew Investigated you and got town as the result
D3: We lynched RR, the only player that could be Cop Enabler
N3: Andrew Investigated (me) for some reason, even though his power no longer worked.
D4: Today
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Galzria on August 28, 2017, 02:11:11 am
Andrew, why did you try to use your power last night?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 28, 2017, 02:20:53 am
Wait what? how could RR have been the only Cop Enabler?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 28, 2017, 02:23:04 am
Oh I see. I didn't notice that in the "if all modifications are present" part of the setup. Well that explains to no result.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 28, 2017, 03:21:39 am
Targets, Skumpy ? Also, you might want to share your reads/overall thoughts.

We're lynching XXRaptor, obviously. There is the small chance that he just messed up, but you know, Occam's Razor and all that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 28, 2017, 03:34:59 am
I'd rather people not vote right now to give Skumpy a chance to post. After that, we can go ahead and lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 28, 2017, 03:37:55 am
Reads? I don't know. I thought during the night the team is Andrew and one of Faust and XX, I'm not sure how I feel about it now (I'm referring to the third scum). DatSwan's had a lot of things going both ways for him. He's defended XX hard all game, including now. It still seems wrong for it to be him, but I can't rule it out completely. Galzria's debate with you at the start of day 3 was very smooth and very natural, judging by the times of posting, but it's not like he was arguing something that you had to be town to be right about (referring to faust's N2 actions, for a quick refresher). Chairs and Andrew need a reread. The only person here RR really interacted with yesterday was DatSwan, which makes me lean town on him. I should go back and look through Raptor's stuff too now. I usually figure out something later in the days, from what I've seen so far, maybe something similar will happen.

 No need to rush this day though, I'll be the night kill, so I'd like to take the time to gather my thoughts. If you do lynch fast, I have faith in you Teproc to pull it off.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 28, 2017, 03:41:03 am
While I appreciate that Skumpy, I actually would rather not waste too much time. I think the less people talk today in general the better. There's a small risk to that, but overall I like scum not knowing exactly what to expect tomorrow better.

vote: XXRaptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 28, 2017, 03:41:19 am
L-1, btw.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 28, 2017, 03:46:35 am
Lynching me is a bad idea
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2017, 03:54:49 am
Vote Count 4.1

Xxraptorslayer96 (3): Galzria, chairs, Teproc
Skumpy (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): Xxraptorslayer96

Not voting (2): Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 28, 2017, 03:55:06 am
Targets, Skumpy ?
Thanks for asking, I wanted somebody to ask for the dramatic effect!

N1: Didn't heal Teproc because I didn't think scum would risk playing the WIFOM game. Also, I was still a little salty that he started my wagon, so I was like: "Psssh. He can commute, so if he really wants to live, he can take care of himself!"

Didn't trust Faust or Raptor, and RR, Jake, and DatSwan were quiet/VLA. Quickly got down to a final five of gkrieg, Galzria, TWM, Andrew, and Chairs.

At one point in D1, I decided to heal gkrieg because people said he improved as the game went on. But I didn't fully trust him (looking back, maybe I should've played it safe, but hindsight's 20/20). Only people I felt somewhat confident in were Chairs and Andrew, and since Chairs was less controversial and more under the radar, I healed Chairs.


Skipping ahead to N3 for now:

Played it safe and healed Teproc. A handful of reasons.

Obviously, he's confirmed town, and I still didn't fully trust faust. I thought scum probably knew who I was if faust was town, so I was getting roleblocked anyways. Also, they might play WIFOM and go for Teproc even though he had a commuting shot, since faust was their obvious target.

He might be scum, but DatSwan made an interesting point in #1157. If I healed someone, then we don't know if I healed them or if faust roleblocked scum or if Teproc commuted, and we get a lot less information then we might hope for. It doesn't even delay the game by another day, really. So I was wary of making a decision since even I was right, we'd still be in the dark a lot.

No regrets looking back. Even if I did save faust, I still probably wouldn't have trusted him and I would've mislynched him, and I would've felt awful. To Dead Faust: Hopefully, we can put this game behind us and move forward, apologies for being unnecessarily hostile towards you.



Oh yeah, and the biggest reason of all why I didn't heal faust:

Spite/Revenge. Because N2, if it wasn't for faust, I would've saved TWM....


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Xxraptorslayer96 on August 28, 2017, 03:56:22 am
Well if it happens, which it looks like. Thanks for the good game guys. 

Reads rn is that DatSwan and Skumpy are scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 28, 2017, 04:08:52 am
Shall I hammer? Pretty confident xx is scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Teproc on August 28, 2017, 04:09:26 am
Well if it happens, which it looks like. Thanks for the good game guys. 

Reads rn is that DatSwan and Skumpy are scum.

Thanks, hope you play another game here ! :)

Also, on the off-chance that you're town: sorry.

PPE: Go ahead.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 28, 2017, 04:15:48 am
Vote: Xxraptor
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: Skumpy on August 28, 2017, 04:17:25 am
Goodbye (most likely) from me too, it was fun.

Apologies for not telling you everything I knew yesterday, it seemed like the right play at the time, and I stand by it now.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2017, 04:32:32 am
Vote Count 4.final

Xxraptorslayer96 (4): Galzria, chairs, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW
Skumpy (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): Xxraptorslayer96

Not voting (1): Skumpy

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. Thread Locked!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D4)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2017, 04:39:21 am
"LaLight, come to my place today!"

Oh, these words. Combined with the fact that LaLight just bought Kingdom Builder they could mean only one thing: GAMES NIGHT! Gather all your friends, gather all your games and play till you can't think. We started with old favorite, good-known Discworld, processed to couple of Love Letter games, then opened the shiny new Kingdom Builder box. It was 1 am already, but we can't just not to play the new game? So LaLight started reading the rules.

First game went pretty well, though in the end guys realised that Merchants work not like they thought they were. Second game was even better. So much possibilities! Third, then fourth game were crushing win by LaLight's best friend. It started getting lighter outside...

Then LaLight looked at the time. Then (in the morning) LaLight understood that NEVER AGAIN will he play games till 3am on Wednesday.

Oh, but we all know it's just for the Mafia flavor, I still do it quite often. Derp.

Xxraptorslayer96 was lynched! They were Playing Games till 3am on Wednesday!

Night 4 starts now and ends in 48 hrs. Deadline for night actions is 47 hrs.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2017, 04:37:45 am
Set alarm on 6.00
Set alarm on 6.05
Set alarm on 6.10
Set alarm on 6.15
Set alarm on 6.20
Set alarm on 6.25
Set alarm on 6.30
Set alarm on...

ALARM OVERLOADED

Skumpy was killed in the night! He was a Precise Alarm Clock!

Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, 6th of September at 4.30am.

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2017, 04:38:38 am
Vote Count 5.0

Not voting (5): Galzria, chairs, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Thread Unlocked!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 05:05:41 am
Alright, we got this.

I was tunneling pretty hard on Galz but for the past couple days my scumread on him has lessened, and the way he called out xxraptor yesterday makes me feel better about him being town. So yeah, I'm thinking chairs is our guy. I'm hoping you guys will believe my claim but even if you don't and you think I'm the last scum, DatSwan is pretty much an IC.

Vote: chairs
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:12:13 am
I would advise taking the time to reread flipped scum and look at their interactions with alive people. WHile I have my idea on who we should lynch today and I'm sure others have too, we should take the time to get it right.

Really, we should have this. You guys only need to identify one other townie, really. But still. Take the time.

PPE: Ahem.

DatSwan is not an IC, btw. Psychotrooping on N2 makes sense for a scumteam including him, I don't think the result clears him. Other things point to him being town, but I don't think the possibility should be entirely dismissed.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:13:02 am
I mean I'm fine with voting, this isn't lylo, but I'd prefer if people took the time to think. We are in a great position, let's make sure we don't mess it up.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:31:25 am
For convenience's sake, all occurences of RR talking about alive people.

Vote: jake
This seems fun and I might have to join you.

In other news, Galz has been saying over and over that 'it's not something scum would do.' This is obviously a terrible argument, because playing well as scum requires you doing things that people don't thinl scum would do. So why is his logic so bad? Either he's town or didn't plan this claim out very well. I don't know that much about Galz's playstyle but I'm pretty sure he's a vet, so I think he planned this out. I still don't want to give him townpoints for doing that though.

The above is some time after Galz's VT claim, D2.

I think DatSwam is scummy for his claim. It's too easy for a newbie to 'accidentally' claim when they didn't realize they shouldn't. Rather than a town blunder, I'm much more inclined to believe that this is a calculated scum idea. This leads me to believe that Galz is also scum, and they're in kahoots when it comes to claiming for no reason.

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.
That absolutely wasn't a threat. It's similar to what happened one time where I had a conversation with 2.7 that made me 100% sure he was town. I feel like this is a very similar situation.

Day 3

faust-"Roleblocker"
DatSwan
Roadrunner7671
AndrewisFTTW
chairs
Skumpy
Galzria
Teproc-"IC"
Raptor

9 Alive, 5 to lynch , 3 scum. One IC. One PR claim.

Raptor, Datswan, chairs and Andrew all fall into the 'flying under the radar' category for me. Since it's not lylo, I could lynch from here.

Galz and Skumpy both had their VT claims. Galz was townie but has progressively been getting more scummy, Skumpy I'm not sure about.

That leaves faust and Teproc. Faust still being here D3 is a little unnerving and suggests (to me) that the scum team has to have some newbies.

This is a problem. The only person I really had a townread on was TWM, so the paranoia stage of mafia is starting to set in.

I think Datswan's assessment of me having 2 lynches is really unfair, especially because they said something about timestps for Galz. I voted for Robz about 4 minutes before the deadline! Jake was bad and should be counted, sure, but it's not like I drove the Robz wagon or even did anything with it.

I've completely fallen off the bus, I've had a really busy weekend. I reread everything, and right now I think my favorite options are Faust or Datswan, my least favorite options are Teproc and Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:34:43 am
So:
- nothing about chairs and Andrew other than having them in "flying under the radar, could lynch" category along with DatSwan and XRaptor
- Back and forth on Galz's claim, adversarial but RR never votes and then hedges on him in his big reads list
- Somewhat consistent suspicion of DatSwan for his claim, culminating with his two preferred lynches for D3 being DatSwan and faust.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D1)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:44:52 am
XXRaptor. Day 1

Hey all, sorry I'm late to the party


Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

Once scum always scum.

vote:Galzria

RVS, but hey it's a vote on an alive player so there's that.

so... triplets?

Yes?

That's it for D1. He voted Skumpy early on, switched to Robz late in the day.

D2 reads

Scum
Skumpy -he just still comes off as odd to me from D1. 
DatSwan- Similar reasons as Galz. I thought he would be more active and aggressive. seems to be flying under the radar
TWM- I dont understand his attitude
Jake?? - No defense from from his wagon is a bold move.

Town
Galz
Andrew
RR
Chairs
Teproc
Fraust

* all seem if have sound reasoning behind votes do not come if as suspicious atm.

I will try to contribute more to convos, sorry for lurking

And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.

M/100-- Galz + Early claim = scum
M/105-- Galz + Early claim = ? ? ?

I find you claiming early a strange move. Obviously more valuables than shown. But you could be trying to recreate a move from a previous game. I think you are smarter then that. But why did you claim unprovoked what so ever?

I didn't read any questions that i felt needed to be answered on my part. If i am incorrect and missed something please bump it to me and i will respond timely.

Where i stand: I'm not 100% sure that jake is scum. But I wouldn't mind voting him to get a lynch. I still feel as though Skumpy and TWM are scum. They just seem to off of echother too well. I also wouldn't mind Voting Galz. I don't like his early VT claim.

Unvote just for now.

Day 3

For now I'm mostly interested in the lurkers speaking.

Rip Jake & TWM

I will have to reread what has happened today. Currently have my eye on Galz, Chairs and faust.
Probably because I'm new, Good players come off as scummy

Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.


This is also true

There's a 75% chance scum has a roleblocker, and I very much think that if he's scum, he (or somebody) did in fact roleblock me as he said.
No, there is a 50% chance. Plus, assuming mod 3 isn't active, we can rule out this possibility once we massclaim, so knowing whether you can confirm the blocking would indeed be helpful.

XX has still not express how he feels about your claim. I'm waiting on that. If he wants questions, I'll give him some:

1) So what happened to the Skummy Skumpy read?
2) Why faust and Chairs? They were nowhere to be seen on your radar before.
3) What do you make of the three claims so far (Galz, DatSwan, faust)
4) How do you think mainstream media has affected the music industry?
5) Why did you not want to vote Jake yesterday?
6) If you had to choose 1 and only 1 person to die right now, who would it be and why?

Question for everybody, be honest: On a scale from 1-7, where am I on your skum reads?

1) After/during D1 you dropped on my radar because of what I believe was your original in post; you said something about you being strange and talking too much. My reason for looking at you was you talked to much and seemed to ask to many questions. I STILL thing that there is a strong chance that you are Scum, but you are not top lynch for me. I can go quote the post that changed my mind if you would like.
2) Faust is on my radar because i don't really like his claim. More then anything i guess i didn't understand it. And for Chairs I guess he is just seems Off. I cant put a real reason behind it other then, he just comes off as scummy to me. and after rereading him, its just a me thing.
3) I can see it being a thing.. Galz and Datswan seem to play off of each other in the sense pick-on each other alot. (to hide association??) If these two are tied together i think Faust is. If they are not then the no connection between the three
4) the Mainstream Media has played a roll in the sense that it has pushed those who lean to the right further right and those to the left further left. I think that can be reflected the the music. Depending on the genre of music that you listen too, you are able to see an artist Views through there music. Then there is music that is complete trash and has no real world connection. 
5) I believe that you are referring to me not voting D2 and not the way i cast my vote D1. So I didn't not want to vote him. (sorry for the double-negative). I just was giving him the Benefit of doubt the I guess. If the day was coming to a close i would of had no problem voting him. I also wasn't not online 12 hour prior to the lynch.
6) Only had the choice of one kill it would probably be Galz. I think that his flip would be the most reviling.

Feel free to ask follow-ups!

To me you are a 5 on a 1-7 scale. This is also a strange number to use for a scale because its prime.

PPE

XX, so you know, I picked 7 to refer the number of unknown players (not counting general-you and Teproc). There actually is some method to my madness.

Your answer for 4 is kind of scummy - you're acknowledging that there are divisions in this world that are getting deeper which corresponds very well to the nature of mafia. But I'll let it slide for now. As others have mentioned, not exactly the answer I was hoping for 3. But now that they've mentioned it, I want to Expand a little...

Faust has claimed roleblocker (mod 2). He has explained his reasoning, and I doubt he has any more to add to his thoughts. But yet, other than me and probably Galzria, NOBODY has said if they believe him. Andrew said it was 'effing bad to claim'; that's not saying if you believe it or not. So to EVERYBODY HERE (save faust and Teproc): On a scale from 1 to 5, do you believe faust? If you do not answer this question in your next post, I will be very, very tempted to vote you.

1 = Psssht, what a scumball liar!
2 = I dunno faust, that's a little doubtful. I kinda wanna vote you.
3 = Cross of Elephant + Rhino = Elefino. I'm too scared to be wrong to answer the question.
4 = Sure, I'll take his word for it, I guess.
5 = OK guys, he's clear. Let's promote him to Deputy.

I'll go first: 1

Again, I've had some more thoughts with respect to his claim and reasoning, but I still want to everybody to take a stand on how they feel about faust first. #NewbieTakeover (that felt awful to type, but necessary)

Okay that makes sense then.

re 4) Please tell me how you would answer that? Do you think that the Mainstream Media doesn't affect Music culture or it affects it in a positive manner. Ignorance is bliss?

sorry for misunderstanding 3. i had just misread it. I'm not sure how to interpret the Claims. I dont have any previous games to compare it to, so i cant say if it was very early or not. I think it was Strange that DatSwan and Galz claimed VT so early unprovoked or even questioned. I think Galz is more scummy for it, he is experianced and should know better if it was early. Swan may have done it because he thought it was What you are supposed to do? But as for Faust Im about a 1.5 as to his claims.



 


DatSwan, XXR, RR : if you're town, now is the time to panic and go "Oh no, town is going to lose because of me." Because that's what's happening. If it means you all agree that I'm wrong and faust is scum, so be it, maybe I am wrong. But you need to do more. You signed up to play this game, not to spectate me getting annoyed at Galzria./

I dropped the ball..

Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.
I hate to Blame experience for my no content vote on Robz D-1 but i guess he just didn't sit right with me compared to Jake.

Sorry for the Short notice of my absence. I will try to get online if possible. I understand how un-opportune the timing is..
Current feelings-
Teproc - town
Andrew - town
RR - town?
Datswan - town?
Galz -scum?
Chairs- Scum?
Skumpy- scum
Vote: Faust   -scum
I do not believe his claim. The only reason to lie would be scum right?

If I am still around for the Deadline, i will catch up on reads and re assess my vote. If I am not then Goodluck fellow town! We will need it. It was a great first game, thanks for having me.

I don't think we should wait until 30 minutes before deadline to lynch. It's better if we get the lynch before, and Andrew and XXR should leaves their votes expecting the day to end before then... it seems to me that this is the case for Andrew already.

It's good to know that they will be there in case we need them to get a lynch through. But XXR should be voting right now, you don't get to wait for everyone else to nicely take position for you.

I will be around. But agreed we shouldn't wait

Vote: Faust -same reason as before, I do not believe that his claims are true.

Not voting DatSwan b/c other then his premature claim I don't think he has done anything scummy. I can be wrong about him, hard to be unbiased ngl.

Not voting chairs b/c just not 100% sure what to think of him. Gut feeling he is scum. I think he's just all over the place with his votes. And it's a similar situation at skumpy.

I'll be around leading to deadline. Willing to change my vote to see a Lynch.

Read through day 3 for the like the umpteenth time. Still nothing. Are we sure there's 3 scum?

Let's say it's neither Chairs nor RR. The possible teams then become (since I'm not scum)

Team 4: And we have the only possible team with both XX and DatSwan. Is the reason we're struggling so much the fact that we can't figure out XX and DatSwan? Those 2 have defended each other and come after me. And Andrew and DatSwan have too, and they're both on faust, and they were both on Galzria, and.... OK, this isn't looking good actually. There is quite suddenly definitely a case here, I'm realizing. I doubt Andrew would make for a good coach (sorry man), so if neither XX nor DatSwan seems to have been coached, this is a reasonable explanation. Let's just say "No, this isn't the team" just to move on...



Long story short, the plan was to eliminate all 10 teams above. That means that one of Chairs and RR must be scum, if not both, so I propose we focus voting there and narrow the lynch pool down to 2. If we're wrong today, we can get the other tomorrow. The only issue is, as I now see, that last team could potentially be correct, or is at least the most likely of the 10. If anybody has a very good counter to why the team is not Andrew/DatSwan/XX, please speak up (since none of DatSwan, Andrew, and XX are currently voting for either RR or Chairs, that's hopefully convincing enough to get up to 5 votes between the two of them, since Galzria and I already there). I think we should still get one of Chairs and RR today, then depending on who's killed, figure out a potential common denominator of all remaining teams and get them.

I'll be back in 7ish hours, I'll be around till deadline, won't have a lot of sleep though. Staying on Chairs for now. I strongly suspect I'll be the night kill since everybody's trusting me, so if I'm not around to see the light of day tomorrow, please, don't let me have died in vain. Finish my work!

Hears my two cents if it matters: I am town.

I was lumped in with Datswan b/c the twin claim. I think the real life connection makes it easy to defend eachoyher. For the record don't think I ever really defended him. I'm put between a rock and a hard place voting for something I truly thing is town. If he is lynched and flips scum I suck and deserve to be lynched.

I'm null on Andrew, no real interaction.

Or skumpy pushes for the only ones who have pushed for him? Probably not that's too simple.


Conclusion: will vote datswan or Andrew to please the crowd but feel it unnecessary

I think that's it for the relevant parts (he does vote DatSwan after messing up his claim, but he had to know he was toast there so it's only WIFOM).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:56:58 am
So, there's a bit more to unpack here

- No mention of Andrew ever, except him being in the "town" section in D3, then null but willing to vote for. At that point in D3 the leading wagons were faust (whom XXRaptor was on) and DatSwan.

- An out-of-nowhere scum read on chairs early Day 3 after listing him in the town section day 2. Listed as one of his trop three candidates early D3, justifies by "gut feeling" when asked. chairs keeps hanging on in the scummy section from then on, with some hedging.

- Suspicion for DatSwan's claim on D2, but thinks he's town on D3. Is with Andrew in the "will lynch if we don't lynch faust" section late day 3

- Thinks Galz is town before the claim, then suspects him. Early Day 3 says Galz is his top choice, but never votes for him (similar to what he does with chairs). In fact they're both in the "scum?" slot on his reads later on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 06:16:32 am
Andrew's interactions with flipped scum:

Day 1

Yeah I'll do that.

Vote: RR

Very early day 1, sheeping TWM.

I'll go by Xx, I like the sound of it.
Little about myself, this is my first time playing a forum game, so forgive me if I make any mistakes.
things I like:
-long walks in the beach
-watching the sunset
-sarcasm
things I don't like:
-irony
-lists
Any other questions feel free to ask.

Long post with zero content. Scummy.

Voting for one scum while calling the other scummy. Still very early D1, but worth noting.

Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.

No flipped scum here but I'm quoting it because this is Andrew unvoting RR. He was the only vote there (and second on TWM).

Vote: TWM

He's acting.... weird.

Don't feel one way or another about Jake, will move my vote there if I have to.
He is but probably town.

That you for your input mr. randomly appearing one-liner mafia genie man!

Let's unvotefor now at least.

@Jake: How is TWM bein weird and why does that make you think he's town ?

Skumpy: Who do you think is scum ?

PPE: 2

You didn't ask me but he made this big case on Skumpy and was very civil and patient towards him, which is different than how he acted with me, and then just abandoned skumpy for no reason and went after Jake. He's also just generally a lot more active and involved than I would expect him to be D1.
Who are you talking about here? Me? That is who Teproc was asking about right? Except you are all sorts of messed. I don't think I acted uncivily toward you, but was trying to make sure you weren't putting suspicion on Galz in a scummy way.

My large post defending Skumpy was made after you called me weird. And I was never going after Skumpy. And I have been totally active and involved.

Can you basically clarify everything? Cause you have me all sorts of confused. It seems like you are combining multiple people into one.

Hmm that's possible. I should go back and make sure I got all my facts right.

Yup. For some reason I thought xx was you. I suck.

Unvote

Interesting (hi Ichi).

DAY 2

I'd rather lynch Jake than Robz, although no one really seems like a good lynch candidate for today. It's been sort of a slow D1 for me.

He says he prefers a Jake lynch but doesn't put his vote there, then disappears until the hammer. So I guess you could point to him maybe protecting a partner? But on the other hand he could've just as easily have put an earlier vote down on Robz if that was the case. Yeah I think I agree with faust on him being pretty towny.

I'm not going to quote all of the Galz stuff but it's interesting too, I'd advise people to reread Andrew (they should reread everyone alive anyway but you know). Searching "Saboteur" isolates his posts (saying this for DatSwan mainly).

Now, you're statement - "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons", even including Jake per your latest post, means you believe that you (obviously) and DatSwan are town. To state otherwise is to simply say that your rebuttal to my analysis is simply "No, I think anybody could be scum". I'm at least TRYING to break down wagons and voting patterns based on the logic that Jake either IS or IS NOT scum.

I'm null on DatSwan. That does not mean I also think "anybody could be scum". It just simply means I don't necessarily think we should be auto-lynching off wagon.

Also all your analysis and conclusions regarding me are assuming that just because I posted a read of someone at one time means I still read them that way and that isn't really true. Everyone's reads change as the game progresses and mine have as well.

Not really interested in debating this further, it's gotten blown way out of proportion and it's really not that important anyway.

Those are all quotes from d2.

And yes, you're correct of course that reads can change. But what you post is literally all anybody has to go off of. So that's what I'm going off of. Implying that those reads have no merit or value is incredibly disingenuous.

Didn't mean to imply that. Most of those reads are the same. But that post about chairs, for example, was really reacting to that one post of his. Since then I haven't really felt one way or another about chairs. Roadrunner I was debating at the time and I'm still not really sure if what he did at the end of D1 is towny or not. As for my response to faust's post on Jake, I think I was mainly referring to the first two lines, because I share townreads of TWM and Skumpy, but yeah I wouldn't have a problem with a Jake lynch. I understand you wouldn't know all of this since I wasn't very clear and hadn't updated my reads since then.

DAY 3

Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

Kinda disappointed Teproc, I personally feel very strongly about Galz and faust. xx isn't the worst lynch I guess.

This was after I gave a lynch pool excluding faust and Galz.

Where would you like to lynch?

Among {XXr, DatSwan, RR, chairs}

I think Andrew did townie stuff today. ANd I think he's actually more agressive as town btw, but I'm not necessarily up to date on Andrew meta.

I'm not up to date on my meta either, and I don't think anyone told Galz that I'm more aggressive as town, at least not in this game. Earlier TWM said I went after mcmc hard as scum in a previous game but that's it.

ANYWAY, I understand why you wouldn't want to lynch faust and I don't really have a case against faust. I just have some interactions between him and Galz that would lead me to suspect faust if Galz flips scum.

But I disagree with your assessment that Galz wouldn't be posting the way he has been if he were scum. I think he himself would disagree with that statement.

I'd like XX, but I wont vote for skumpy or DatSwan today.

I'm pretty null on RR and chairs. Much more confident about Galz than faust but yeah I'll just back off and be flexible.

Day 4

Shall I hammer? Pretty confident xx is scum.

Vote: Xxraptor

No points for that, but I figured I'd quote it for completeness's sake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 06:17:56 am
While I'm at it: Andrew, what was your thought process when chosing your N2 investigation ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 06:37:48 am
chairs's interactions with flipped scum.

DAY 1

raptorslayer must be called "Clever girl" in deference to Jurassic Park, clearly.

I... what? I can't even right now.

This is in response to this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg709909#msg709909) from XXRaptor.

Where's RR at on votes? I don't mind joining a wagon on D1 strictly on activity basis.

I think RR had two votes ? Not a lot anyway.

vote: RR. Even if that's the hammer, this is ridiculous.

Not sure what this is about as there was no RR post in between. Looks like chairs thought his vote might have been a hammer ? Pretty sure RR only had like one vote at that point though.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were v/la. I'll unvote.

Not super stoked about Skumpy right now.

Right, I guess RR was just absent.

Jake/Raptor/TWM calling it now.

DAY 2

Fine.

vote: XXraptor

Sure why not.

vote: XXraptor

This is shortly after DatSwan claimed VT. TWM had self-voted because of my opposition to the Jake lynch, and then was convinced that self-voting was bad. Pretty sure chairs vote is only the second one on Raptor here.

scum to chum:
DatSwan OR Galz (I don't think they're partners)
Raptor
Jake
Andrew
RR
faust
(The other of DatSwan or Galz once one flips)
Skumpy
TWM

DAY 3

I felt like I was contributing so I'm sad to see myself so low on your ratings, there, but yeah I could vote: raptor

This is just after I say I don't like the faust and Galz wagons and vote Raptor myself. Again, chairs is the second vote.

Skumpy, this whole game's a goddamn sanity drain, no need to apologize.

The more I look at everybody's reaction, the more I think faust is town. I realize that most of you are probably just going to think I'm scum trying to save his buddy here (since apparently we're making the mistake of calling scumteams) but that's my honest opinion.

I don't remember who I'm voting. vote: Andrew. Just a gut feel.

No flipped scum but this is chairs unvoting XXRaptor. It leaves Raptor with two votes on him (myself and Galz).

vote: Roadrunner I could get behind this.

This is after I unvote in disgust after seeing a vote count with all mini-wagons, and call for people to get their act together. As a response, a faust wagon forms (Xraptr, Andrew, DatSwan), and Galz says his order of preference is chairs>RR>DatSwan>Andrew, with some hedging. I take chairs vote here as a response to Galz, basically. I would urge people to take a good look at this moment of the game in general. It will come up again for DatSwan and Galz.

LOL @ Skumpy.

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

WTF vote: DatSwan

Leaving RR with one vote. DatSwan just unvoted RR to join the faust wagon (3rd vote there), Skumpy unvoted which leaves chairs as the whole RR vote before this. chairs is the third vote on DatSwan here, after faust and me.

chairs is not around when the RR wagon reforms, shows up an hour or so before deadline and:

vote: RR

I don't know if I'll be around anymore today and I don't want us to miss a lynch here.

Hammer (beating XXRaptor to it by a few seconds).

DAY 4

There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor

I mean not saying I am not on your side here... but we can be essentially as sure that "faust targeted skumpy" as we can be that "raptor targeted faust...."

We know faust is Town, so we don't have any reason to believe he lied.

I'm a VT.

vote: raptor.

No points either, but again: I'm a completionist.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 06:43:53 am
No time to continue now. Someone else can do DatSwan and Galz is they feel like it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 01:38:57 pm
N2 I think I was reacting to Galz's whole thing about there probably being scum off wagon, meaning me or DatSwan, and I wanted to prove him wrong somehow. I also thought there was at least one scum among the newbies. I had a townread on Skumpy and was null on DatSwan so clearing DatSwan pointed to xxraptor. I know that's kinda stupid but whatever.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 01:50:00 pm
N2 I think I was reacting to Galz's whole thing about there probably being scum off wagon, meaning me or DatSwan, and I wanted to prove him wrong somehow. I also thought there was at least one scum among the newbies. I had a townread on Skumpy and was null on DatSwan so clearing DatSwan pointed to xxraptor. I know that's kinda stupid but whatever.

Why not Galz though ? Didn't you suspect him because of the claim ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 01:58:36 pm
N2 I think I was reacting to Galz's whole thing about there probably being scum off wagon, meaning me or DatSwan, and I wanted to prove him wrong somehow. I also thought there was at least one scum among the newbies. I had a townread on Skumpy and was null on DatSwan so clearing DatSwan pointed to xxraptor. I know that's kinda stupid but whatever.

Why not Galz though ? Didn't you suspect him because of the claim ?

Yes but I wanted to investigate someone I didn't have a strong read on.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 02:03:37 pm
N2 I think I was reacting to Galz's whole thing about there probably being scum off wagon, meaning me or DatSwan, and I wanted to prove him wrong somehow. I also thought there was at least one scum among the newbies. I had a townread on Skumpy and was null on DatSwan so clearing DatSwan pointed to xxraptor. I know that's kinda stupid but whatever.

Why not Galz though ? Didn't you suspect him because of the claim ?

Yes but I wanted to investigate someone I didn't have a strong read on.

I was going to ask if you've been a Cop before, but I have my stats ! You sure roll VT a lot.

For the record I disagree with that strategy, but ok.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 02:35:08 pm
Not the best cop, I'll be the first to admit that.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 02:36:59 pm
(And where are those stats?)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 02:39:36 pm
(And where are those stats?)

(On my computer, on an ugly .calc sheet. Only normal games.)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D2)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 02:54:04 pm
DatSwan interactions with flipped scum.

Nothing Day 1

Day 2

OK so here is the thing - I am VT. I don't really see the point in saying it because obv everyone is going to make there own decisions, but there it is. I had to look up what "lurking" meant lol.
If it has come off as such to anyone, I would like to say my reasoning behind being subtle so far is only because of my inexperience in the game. Watching and reading and gathering is pretty much all I have been able to maintain, and even then I find it overwhelming (fun, but still a lot).

I am still fine tuning this weird situation where I want to point out "skummy" behavior without making it seem like I am in fact skum. Not because I care if I get lynched because if we win as town we win as town, whatever... but because I want the points to be taken into good consideration.

Galzria could go either way. He is a random dude from what I am reading. I would note he seems to be making certain topics focus on things that he wants to talk about, and ignoring the others, which is skummy, but all in all whatever.

TWM says he doesn't care and doesn't want to put in time and etc, but then types up novels... weird.

I think that Xx is skum. I have no reasoning for it other then what I am perceiving from convos. It would seem to me that as he introduced himself as new in the beginning it would be an easy play to have a vet coach him to be a slow player and manipulate the conversations to their advantage.

That's my 2 cents.

Unvote

Figured I might as well quote whole thing since the VT claim is rather important.

I think DatSwam is scummy for his claim. It's too easy for a newbie to 'accidentally' claim when they didn't realize they shouldn't. Rather than a town blunder, I'm much more inclined to believe that this is a calculated scum idea. This leads me to believe that Galz is also scum, and they're in kahoots when it comes to claiming for no reason.


In case there was some miscommunication...

1) I did NOT accidentally claim VT. I meant to claim VT, I just did not realize that it would have a negative effect on my townsfolk. I thought I had been pretty straightforward with my thoughts so far. So while yeah, in hindsight, claiming my role probably didn't help my team all too much.. I do want to reiterate to fellow townies... I claimed VT because I am VT. Not by mistake.

2) If you are town, I would invite you to go back and re read Galz. Whether VT or not VT, his initial VT claim had one goal and that was to stir the pot. If he is scum-hunting he wanted to beat the bush, great. If he is scum he wanted to gain info as much as possible in order to ward off scummy vibes as the game continues. Far more to gain as skum opposed to town IMO.

3) On a much less substantial note.... While I appreciate the high fives and back pats... Andrew seems very scummy to me.

4) If we lynch someone other than Galz or Jake, they are probably going to bus Galz or Jake.

5) Don't forget this shit. #GoTownies

Hypothetical - RR flips scum. Does this effect anyone's opinion on a Jake lynch?

Day 3

Sorry I woke up late :P

IDK what I am supposed to like say at this point in the game. My main read has now recently switched, which is Galz. I no longer currently am sitting on him as skum.

I am going to be a little short on post for the rest of this IRL day because I am taking the IC advice and re reading D2 as if Jake was Town. Mainly because I was SO SURE he was skum I didn't even bother targeting him, so now I do not know what I missed.

Xx and Chairs need to speak up a bit. I can't speak for Chairs but my read on Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.

PPE

Also a note - this day is starting with Faust the same way D2 was starting with Jake. Don't know what that means, just kind of pointing it out since I have to acknowledged my Jake read was wrong.

Hypothetical... XXR goes to the rope... are we thinking two vets with him? What is the likelihood that someone like Galz and/or Andrew are bussing him st this point?

Same stuff as Jake, I suppose. Not a lot of specific comments about a lot of people, not really defending your actions and votes, like why you voted Robz for instance.

Unfortunately for you, 96 hours is a long long time without prior warning. Means you'll be back at what, 12 hours before deadline? I can tell there will be people here who will not be very forgiving of you. Specifically Teproc.


I would like right now to say that I DO NOT think XXR is skum at this point. My question previously was just based on the rest of the context. We should be careful about wagoning more on this just because of VLA.
Also - Townies - as of right now we are getting our asses kicked. The more time the better in the day. Let's communicate about votes but keep a close eye on counts.

OK - officially here and ready to be helpful - had to do some re reading.. I don't want to post like ALLL reasoning because it would be a novel, but in a nutshell:

         Town:
Teproc - IDK, call it a guy feeling :P
Me - As previously claimed.. VT

         Null-Leaning-Towards-Town:
Galz - Being too helpful for me to say any sort of a lynch would be a good idea at this point.
XXR - My whole thing so far has been sitting back and observing based on the idea I would say something noobish or stupid that hurt my fellow townies (it has been made clear I need to switch this up, I get it). I just read the same noobish vibe here from XXR.
Andrew - Vote history and overall interaction.

        Null-Leaning-Towards-Skum:
RoadRunner - Too quite. 1 out of 2 to lynch town twice.
Charis - Too quiet. 1 out of 2 to lynch town twice.
**Note - I am aware that Galz also voted Lynched Town twice, but we all saw the timestamps on that**
Skumpy - I am not saying Skum. But if I had to pick one of the new players to be the "coached mafia" it would be him.

        Skum
Faust - Currently on me. Voted town lynch day 1. Was the only one voted Skumpy, who I believe to be coached skum, Day 2.


If Skumpy were to flip Town - Faust would move onto my "lean towards town list"
If Skumpy were to flip Skum - I would be looking right at Faust-RR-Chairs
If Chairs or RR were to flip Town - The other would move into my "for sure skum list"
If Faust were to flip Town - I would be confused, but I would be looking at RR-Chairs and then re-evaluate Skumpy.
If XXR flipped Skum - I would would be looking Faust-RR-Chairs
If Galz were to flip Skum - XXR would be Town IMO and Skumpy would have to go.

And as I am typing the rest of this out I realize it could all be changed based on who skum kills that night so I will just leave it be.


End of story - Chairs and RR have two lynches each under them. We should look more into that.

unvote

Note- XXR's last action before going VLA was to v..o..t..e Faust (just making sure). I am still good with voting for him, but I am following my own advice on extending the days. If you think XXR is skum you need to think about this. Would skum play this this way? add a vote when one vote matters so much to a person that isn't a sure lynch?

I think this should give more cred to XXR as a town read.
I think this should have use look back into a Faust lynch.
I think we are OVERTHINKING a ton of crap and skum are laughing at us right now so let's get our $%@& together.

I do NOT like a XXR or Galz lynch today. I obv am fine with a Faust lynch. If someone has some input on a RR or Chairs I could also maybe get behind those.
Skumpy tied or first pick with Faust still.

I could get behind chairs or RR... so it is known.

I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).


I believe either of the options are possible. I said in my post that I thought Chairs/RR are on my skum read list.
vote: RR

Between the post before and this one, there was one RR vote (chairs) and one chairs vote (Galz).

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

After faust makes a case on him (and I sheep it). Take RR from 3 votes to 2, and faust from 2 votes to 3.

Pre-hopefulBigReadLaterOn:

Is it a XX/Galzria team? It seems too simple.

Watch it just end up being something like faust/Chairs/RR and they just let town massacre themselves.

before I get to anything....this.

vote: RR

L-1

Day 4

There's no redirecting role, so...

vote: Raptor

I mean not saying I am not on your side here... but we can be essentially as sure that "faust targeted skumpy" as we can be that "raptor targeted faust...."

Skumpy your logic doesn't follow... if liars are claiming Town. How do we deduce your role. You wanna help out. Claim like everyone else.

vote: skumpy

Not an interaction with flipped scum, but noteworthy given that this was after XXRaptor messed up his fakeclaim.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 03:01:31 pm
Note:

XxRaptor was a Flavor Cop & 2-Shot Roleblocker.

The remaining scum is a Goon (no town claims to MOD 3/4).

This means it's likely scum Flavor Copped N1, and probably N2. N3 they killed Faust instead of Roleblocking him. So they probably either flavored N3 again, or blocked a found town PR. N4 Raptor was dead, so they straight killed Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 03:23:37 pm
And now the big one. Galz.

Day 1

Nothing, except for some twinclaim stuff early on re: Raptor.

Day 2

Vote: Robz
Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

You are absolutely correct that Raptor's vote was far worse here. Anytime a vote is cast without reasoning behind it it's bad (ok, {exceptions, reasons}).

But let's assume Raptor IS scum for a moment as it's his bad vote in question:

- 8 hours (give or take) to deadline.
- Jake is at 5 votes
- Robz is at 2
- Nobody else is on radar.
- Scum!Raptor knows the alignment of both Jake & Robz

Questions:
- Does Jake's alignment matter here? If yes, how? Certainly if he's scum this vote makes sense from scum!Raptor. What if Jake is Town?
- Does scum, even newbie scum, place that vote with literally 0 justification? Do they not at least try to seem townie by doing it?
- If XxRaptor is scum, and Jake is scum, do you believe the third scum was also voting Robz, left bussing Jake, or not voting?
- If XxRaptor is scum and Jake is Town, do you believe all three scum were on Robz/Jake wagons? Why was the lynch so difficult to get through? If they're not all on the wagons, then one of {Andrew, DatSwan} would be scum, correct?

{Given the amount of content, it's amazing how little I've found so far... but then again RR and Xraptor were virtually invisible.}

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake
So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

Alright, first off:

There's a difference between a "not-scum" read and "town" read. It's never really been that I haven't wanted to see him lynched, it's just that I've never really seem justification for him to be the top lynch choice.

I still don't really see what all the fuss over him yesterday was. Yes, he was absent, but that's often just Jake. When he came in he posted a bunch, in bursts. But that's also just Jake. I never felt, despite what TWM claimed, that he was avoiding questions. Things directed at him he answered. Things genetically asked he usually left alone. But he wasn't "avoiding" in my eyes.

At the start of today his wagon picked up exactly where it left off and where one would assume "either/or" lynches would start. Robz was town doesn't default mean Jake is scum though so again nothing presented itself for me to read him one way or another.

Much of today has been focused around me. Understandably. What WAS directed at Jake was a pushed mostly by TWM who was claiming that Jake had been avoiding. As I hadn't noticed it D1 I kinda understand Jake's frustration - but I decided to reread TWM looking exactly for all the things Jake had been ignoring. I didn't find much.

So yeah - not much there. From either side. But TWM's absolute conviction over this leads me to read town on him. 

The problem for Jake then is twofold and recent:

1) I feel like over the past 24-48 hours Jake HAS been intentionally vague and non-responsive. Especially in a way that is completely by choice. He knows what's been asked of him and he's choosing to be as short and nondetailed as possible.

- This could be entirely out of frustration. But I know that I, for one, have at least asked him not to let his frustration dictate his posts. It doesn't help him or us. But still it persists.

- You could be correct in that I'm just noticing it more because it's about me. I don't feel that's accurate but it could be. Certainly I'm probably a little more invested in responses and reads when they're about me.

2) My analysis of the wagons yesterday. I still believe strongly that there is one scum between {Andrew, DatSwan}. This is ESPECIALLY true if Jake is Town - because to believe otherwise means that {Robz, Jake} had 3 scum voting them but we struggled to lynch... And that doesn't make sense. With that much scum coaching it should've been way easier. I digress however. The thing that caught my attention was that Jake was NOT voting Robz.

- From town!Jake's perspective this doesn't make sense. We needed a lynch. Any lynch other than him is a better lynch than him. Yes, he had a stated town read on Robz - but he would've KNOWN that he himself was town. That makes Robz an infinitely better vote. But he wasn't there. He wasn't helping us get to lynch.

- From Scum!Jake's POV this is just fine however. He doesn't care if we actually lynch, so he's in no push to make it happen. Further, if we do lynch Robz, he'll flip town. Scum!Jake knows this and would rather not be on that wagon. Easier to point fingers at those who lynched a townie or say "I told you so". And lastly, if things did start to shift around or back to him he always had his vote as a card in his back pocket to reapply pressure to Robz or whomever if needed.

I hadn't looked in detail at the wagons until two days ago. Even when I saw the above it struck me as off, but not immediately vote worthy. After sleeping on it though and having him come in yesterday and respond as he did it kinda tipped me over.

Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.

If Jake is Town, as I've already stated, I would be almost certainly locked in on {Andrew, DatSwan}.

The biggest reason is that given the group of people I know to be town at that point {Robz, Gkrieg, Jake, Teproc, Galzria}, 4 of them had their votes on {Robz, Jake} at D1 end. If the scum team were also all on {Robz, Jake} that's 7 votes.

This is the end of day vote for those two players:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant

Possible scum in this group: {Chairs, Raptor, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Faust, TWM}

If Jake is town I strongly suspect Skumpy is as well - I don't think scum!Skumpy WIFOM's a change from one town wagon to another just to get a lynch. TWM I also read strongly as town right now.

Now, there COULD be 3 scum in {Chairs, Faust, Roadrunner, Raptor}. Certainly would have us in a bind right now as they're getting collectively very little heat - and don't look to be any time soon. But I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of those 3 be scum if Jake is town, with the last one between Andrew and DatSwan.

So I guess those combination of pairings is where I would be looking. 2-3 of {Faust, Chairs, Roadrunner, Raptor}, and 1 of {Andrew, DatSwan}. Maybe I should focus more on the first group?

If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?

Well, that's interesting. I think scum probably split. It's an easy push as "bad town play" {Faust, Andrew, Jake} - but I also honestly expect some town to feel this way as well - so it's not really a scum!tell to react that way. That said, Faust by far was the scummiest of these reactions simply because I didn't at ALL feel like he was voting me because he thought I was scum. His vote felt made because he thought it would be easy.

On the other hand, scum doesn't really have the need to jump on it. I'm going to get heat regardless so they can wait and watch. In the group that acknowledged it but didn't engage it you have {TWM, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Chairs, DatSwan}. Of these you and Skumpy have my most expected scum reactions (Almost literally "We'll wait and see") - but I town read you both so... Interesting note on Roadrunner... he's the only player to give me town credit for the play which I don't at all think was warranted... So definitely stands out for that.

Lastly there's the group that I don't recall even acknowledging it {XxRaptor}. This very well could be a "don't wanna shoot myself in the foot" scum play.

So... in order, discounting all other reasons for reads:

Faust -> TWM -> Skumpy -> XxRaptor -> Roadrunner -> Chairs -> DatSwan -> Andrew -> Jake

Skumpy - I *think* I've made my thoughts on your questions to me clear in my posts...

But short version: Faust being scum is definitely something I would consider if Jake is town. See my "Thoughts if we lynch Jake and he flips town" post. I also think aspects of his play (see: reactions to the claim) have themselves read scummy.

As for why I don't include Roarunner in the {Andrew/DatSwan} analysis... well, because he was on wagon end of D1, yes? On Robz in fact. So for the purpose of helping us reach a lynch he was there at least. He's definitely flown crazy under radar though and absolutely could be scum.

vote: RR

I could get behind this.

Vote Count 2.4

Galzria (3): JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan
JaketheBaseballGod22 (4): Roadrunner7671, Galzria, chairs, faust
faust (1): Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): Teproc

Not voting (2): Xxraptorslayer96, The_Wine_Merchant

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, August 16 at 2:30 pm forum time.

If Jake is town then there's almost certainly 1 scum on me, and 2 on Jake (plus or minus Raptor). These wagons break down to match my previous analysis almost perfectly.

Bleh. unvote.

That won't look pretty but I don't really care. If Jake is scum I'll gladly be the following lynch for looking the fool here. The wagon doesn't match with my analysis the last few days though.

I know it's kinda jumping the shark to assume Jake is town but my gut says it's a bad lynch - and if that's right then I think my analysis regarding there being 2 scum in {Chairs, RR, Faust, Raptor} is correct. And, well... I don't know a better way to turn the conversation towards them. They've received so little collective suspicion and there's so much else going on it feels like they're set on cruise... and I can't shake the feeling of being played.

I think I want to join Skumpy on vote: faust for now.

For those not remembering: that unvote was too late as Jake self-hammered. Fun times.

DAY 3

Look, I've said before I think there's 2 in {Faust, Chairs, RR, Raptor} and 1 in {Andrew, Datswan}.

For the first group, I think it goes Faust -> RR -> Chairs -> Raptor. RR/Chairs are interchangeable, the others are miles apart.

DatSwan and Andrew could be 50/50. DatSwan has ignored me when I've pushed him, Andrew has fought back. This would make me lean DatSwan, but I'm told Andrew reacts far more aggressively as scum than town.

I'll vote wherever you want each and every day, but I'll stand by it being a mistake to not lynch Faust

i'm going to stop quoting posts mentioning that PoE thing based on wagons if they do'nt comment further on RR and Raptor specifically.

Baaa.

vote: Raptor

This is after our spat early D3. I interpreted this as Galz essentially saying "fine, have it your way" (I was voting Raptor).

Not Faust, not Raptor?

Chairs. Then RR. Then you. Then Andrew.

I could flip RR and Chairs. I could flip you and Andrew.

Answering DatSwan asking Galz where he'd go if he had to move his vote.

Skumpy, that's kind of what I was getting at with B) and C) above - just because I think his player choices were poor doesn't make him scum. He could've made those choices as town, and while I disagree with them, they would be his to make. It's a similar thought to my claiming what, and when, I did. Just because he, or Andrew, or anybody, disagrees with my choice or thinks it's a poor choice doesn't make me scum.

My follow up to that in C) is that regardless of his alignment, the overall claim works. Which is why it's such a solid scum claim and an unfortunate town one. I agree with you that pointing out or asking for justification on his blocking you won't make much difference. However I do think that going back and reading his response following my claim with the "knowledge" that he had just blocked me N1 is valid - it's a perspective we didn't have at the time it happened.

That said, doing exactly that has - for better or worse - lessened my scum read on him substantially. If you would like to know exactly why I would be happy to share. In the meantime:

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

I would indeed like to know very much more about why you've suddenly lessened your scum read on him, but not until after his big defense. While I agree that his revealing he's a roleblocker does give insight into his actions at the start of day 2, and while the town!faust train of though does make sense, it could have easily gone the other way too; he suspects you're lying about not being a town PR in order to not get role blocked, so he votes you hoping to get a big enough wagon to make you reveal your real role and reveal your deceit.

vote: Chairs as my #1 choice. RR is a close second.

As I said, I'd much rather RR, but don't change just for me. Questions for you:

So you believe Chairs is bussing?
So you think the team is Chairs/RR/....Andrew? (If you agree on the first 2 people, keep in mind that once I can convince DatSwan that I'm not teamed with faust, that's 3 people who agree on 2 scum. Make of that what you will).

Chairs/RR/DatSwan, or Chairs/RR/Andrew would be my leading team based on PoE, yes. I'm not inclined to believe you're scum, and I know Teproc and I are not. Faust just dropped off the list based largely on that single post. I could absolutely be wrong about Raptor though - but I've felt he gets votes in the same way Jake did. It simply didn't and doesn't feel right.

Can somebody not as lazy as me produce a short vote history for each player throughout the game (better yet if it includes "stated would vote but hasn't")? If not I'll get around to looking at the people I'm most interested in at some point today. Deadline is 3:00pm forum time tomorrow though.

Skumpy: The problem, as you've noted, is the lack of any sort of consensus amongst town players. I'll lynch anybody except Teproc, Me, or you. My preferred order is pretty clear by now (Chairs, RR, Raptor?, DatSwan, Andrew, Faust*) - and Faust is only not #1 based entirely on that single post (Teproc's read plays a small part. At the very least I know it's not disingenuous, even if it's not right).

Here's a question for those interested in considering it (easier for Faust and I)

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

This is the end of day vote:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

I should be around for the deadline, my only commitment today is 4 hours before it so I think I'm okay. I don't know how long before it I'll be around though, I might pop in pretty late.

vote: RR

Still think I prefer Chairs overall, but c'mon man... there's no effort here and it's killing us if you're town.

Here until deadline.

3rd vote on the RR lynch, immediately after mine (well, like 4 hours but there's nothing between the votes).

DAY 4

Faust targeted Me N1. He targeted Skumpy N2. Not Chairs.

Am I missing something?

No points for this, btw. Scum!Galz 100% points it out because he knows it will be noticed soon enough.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on August 30, 2017, 04:55:32 pm
Alright quick one before work....
So far we know that both MODS were on for XXR and he is gone. This means Doc and Responsible Friend was on (both confirmed by Faust and Skumpy).
When re reading roles - remember that these things are 100%!

While I want to say that I believe based on his merits that Andrew is telling the truth about being UB, it doesn't actually matter because either he is lying, or he is telling the truth and he has used his Powers out and the other MOD flip is dead.

Only remaining potential MODS are #3 and #4 (if we believe Andrew). Skumpy, confirmed lying, claimed to be Town MOD 4 and no one claimed it after him. MOD 3 pretty much has not been mentioned.

I am leaning towards Chairs since I have a towny feeling about Galz and Andrews information just seems to fit so perfectly. On the other hand, Andrew's info does fit like PERFECTLY, and the only feasible reason I can think of at this point given the way Galz has been playing for him to claim VT if he is not VT is because it was an attempt to protect a PR.
But again, I said before RR and Chairs, and I still lean towards that after re read.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 05:00:14 pm
Only remaining potential MODS are #3 and #4 (if we believe Andrew). Skumpy, confirmed lying, claimed to be Town MOD 4 and no one claimed it after him. MOD 3 pretty much has not been mentioned.

I'm assuming you meant Raptor?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:27:45 pm
Alright quick one before work....
So far we know that both MODS were on for XXR and he is gone. This means Doc and Responsible Friend was on (both confirmed by Faust and Skumpy).
When re reading roles - remember that these things are 100%!

While I want to say that I believe based on his merits that Andrew is telling the truth about being UB, it doesn't actually matter because either he is lying, or he is telling the truth and he has used his Powers out and the other MOD flip is dead.

Only remaining potential MODS are #3 and #4 (if we believe Andrew). Skumpy, confirmed lying, claimed to be Town MOD 4 and no one claimed it after him. MOD 3 pretty much has not been mentioned.

I am leaning towards Chairs since I have a towny feeling about Galz and Andrews information just seems to fit so perfectly. On the other hand, Andrew's info does fit like PERFECTLY, and the only feasible reason I can think of at this point given the way Galz has been playing for him to claim VT if he is not VT is because it was an attempt to protect a PR.
But again, I said before RR and Chairs, and I still lean towards that after re read.

What ANdrew says is relevant in that if you think he's lying that means he's scum... I don't follow your train og thought at all there.

We know eveyrthing there is to know about the setup. I mean yeah, we don't know if there's a Universal Backup, but that doesn't matter in any way ?

What do you mean about Galz and Andrew having info that fits perfectly ? Galz especially ? Fitting perfectly is normal, scum messing up their claim like XRaptor did is not something that normally happens.

And what's that about protecting a PR ? WHat ? I don't understand this post at all frankly.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:34:17 pm
Like, this is not what you should be thinking about right now. What you should be thinking about is this: you have a 3-player lynch pool. We get two tries at getting the last scum. So you have two missions:
a) Find at least one townie in that three-player lynch pool
b) Convince the others townies that you are town

That's it. What mods are or are not in the game is irrelevant at this point, because you (the remaining townies) are all essentially VTs and the remaining mafia is a goon. Well, it's relevant in the sense of whether or not Andrew is lying, but the only thing left happening at night is scum killing and me possibly commuting.

So yeah, do think about whether ANdrew's claim is convincing or not, but that's muchy, much less important than their play. The way they interacted with people we know to be scum especially, and how those players interacted with them. There's a reason I gathered all of that info.

What townies need to now is to reread everyone left in the game. Well, except for me because you know I'm town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 05:41:17 pm
And it's especially irrelevant because we know this all, except for the Andrew part. 1 and 2 were in, 3 and 4 were not, 5 may or may not have been.

Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you're saying. You also said "I said before RR and chairs and I still lean towards that after re read. " and I don't know what that means either ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 06:28:32 pm
I'm gonna walk through my thought process for right now, and my preferred lynches, based on what we know.

Game start:

Mafia:
XxRaptor - Flavor Cop, 2-shot Roleblocker (MOD 1 & 2)
Roadrunner - 1-shot Psychtrooper (Base)
???? - Goon

Town:
Teproc - IC (Base)
Faust - Roleblocker (MOD 2)
Skumpy - Doctor (MOD 1)
Gkrieg - 3-shot Alignment Cop (BASE)
Robz - VT
Jake - VT
TWM - VT

Unknown with claims:
Galzria: VT
DatSwan: VT
Chairs: VT
Andrew: Universal Backup (MOD 5)

We know the last Mafia is a Goon because nobody claimed the town PR's from MOD 3 or MOD 4.

Day 1:
No PR's have fired. We lynch Robz, BY.

Night 1:
If I'm scum, I fire my Psychotrooper shot this night. Our chances of actually shooting the Cop this night are as low as they can be. We don't expect Gkrieg to flip cop, and we assume at some point the Cop will claim. As we don't know when that will be, at least we've forced a bad result. There's almost no chance the Cop doesn't use his power (3 shots is a lot, especially for somebody who won't reasonably expect to see endgame (cop rarely does)). Nobody known to Roleblock, so we almost certainly Flavor Cop here. Who is a question I don't believe I could guess at though.

Day 2:
Gkrieg flips Alignment Cop. If MOD 5 is on, then scum know that the UB has just changed to Cop. I'll assume then that they didn't Flavor Cop Andrew (see further below). DatSwan and I claim VT this day. We lynch Jake (VT).

Night 2:
Andrew claims to have Copped DatSwan and gotten a result. Had he been Flavor Copped N1, there's a 0% chance scum didn't kill him or block him. If he's town, scum didn't know he was UB. I also don't believe they Flavor Copped Skumpy or Faust N1. See below.
Now, either scum believed DatSwan and my VT claim, or they didn't. If they did believe us, killing either of us makes no sense. If they don't believe us, risking their kill when they can flavor cop us would make no sense.
Had they Flavor Copped Faust/Skumpy/Andrew* N1, their options N2 would be: Block PR & Kill, or Kill PR and Flavor Cop. Option 2 is far more valuable, and as it didn't happen I'm inclined to believe they didn't Cop a PR N1.
My guess here is that they shot TWM amongst a group of {TWM, Andrew, Faust, Chairs, Skumpy}, and Flavor Copped amongst the same group plus Me/DatSwan. Based on the above thoughts, they probably Copped Me/DatSwan/Jake/Chairs N1. This is all slightly more likely if Andrew is scum than if Chairs/DatSwan are as it gives the biggest pool of VT's in which to investigate.

Day 3:
TWM flips VT. Faust claims Roleblocker. As Skumpy was Doctor and KNEW there was a scum Roleblocker in the game, this completely explains his unshakable read on Faust. We lynch RR (1-shot Psychtrooper and potential Cop Enabler).

Night 3:
Scum could've blocked Faust here. But they also knew there was a Doctor in the game. Had they known Skumpy was the Doctor by this point that would've been the absolute safest play (block Faust, shoot Skumpy who can't Doctor himself). This leads me to believe they didn't know Skumpy was a Doctor. If they knew Andrew was a Cop now, they also knew he had a result, but couldn't get more. They would've needed to weigh who to kill with who to block. This is where what I believe to be true and what could be true separate the most. In the end they killed Faust (Roleblocker), and either Roleblocked someone or Flavor Copped again.

Day 4:
Faust (Roleblocker) killed. Everybody claims. We lynch Raptor (Flavor Cop / 2-shot Roleblocker).

Night 4:
Obvious kill on Skumpy. Scum knew he was town, couldn't block him, and couldn't risk him stopping kills.

Overall thoughts:

It's possible scum used RR night 2 instead of night 1, but I would not have in their shoes. This leads me to believe DatSwan is more likely town.

Andrew's claim works as both scum and town. I don't agree with his choice N2 (doesn't make him scum), and as the role he's claimed, I'm not convinced he would "forget" that the matching scum MOD would be Cop Enabler. I don't follow that the night after RR was killed he would've tried to Cop me.

Chairs claim works as both scum and town. He was top of my list from a combination of reads and PoE from before, but RR and Raptor both landed scum from my PoE from before - so I want to do a re-assesment.

Gotta run for work. Will be back with more later.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 30, 2017, 06:34:10 pm
Re: psychotrooping N1: yeah you shoot it, because you're the kind of player that gets investigated on N1. I would too.

A team of RR/XRaptor/DatSwan (which is the only relevant thing re: Psychtrooper) would not, or at least there's a strong chance they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you're spending any time thinking about the rest. How is it relevant ? Don't answer that.

Actually there was a relevant part: ANdrew "forgetting" about Cop Enabler. He didn't forget, he seemed to think there could be multiple though. WHich is very weird, and you know what I think that means.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 07:26:19 pm
Re: psychotrooping N1: yeah you shoot it, because you're the kind of player that gets investigated on N1. I would too.

A team of RR/XRaptor/DatSwan (which is the only relevant thing re: Psychtrooper) would not, or at least there's a strong chance they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you're spending any time thinking about the rest. How is it relevant ? Don't answer that.

Actually there was a relevant part: ANdrew "forgetting" about Cop Enabler. He didn't forget, he seemed to think there could be multiple though. WHich is very weird, and you know what I think that means.

This is incorrect. It's not a targeted ability. It flips any alignment cop result, regardless of where the Cop targeted. Scum shows town, town shows scum.

It wouldn't matter who they (or RR/Xx/Andrew, or RR/Xx/Chairs) thought might be copped. That's -arguably, but in my opinion- the optimal time to force a false result
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 07:26:54 pm
Role Clarifications:
- 1-shot Psychotrooper is an Active power. The night they choose to use it, the Alignment Cop will get the opposite result for their investigation (Scum instead of Town and Town instead of Scum).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 30, 2017, 07:29:05 pm
I didn't forget about Cop Enabler. I just didn't see that if there was a Cop Enabler it would be Moving To a Different Location's role instead of simply random.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on August 30, 2017, 07:32:19 pm
OTOH... I'm not entirely sure why scum!Andrew would claim what he did to "clear" DatSwan when he could've claimed VT and left DS out of it.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on August 31, 2017, 04:01:54 am
I gotta go with Chairs on this one so far. While Andrews blunder on the confusion of the MOD roles does raise questions because he is a vet, I just do not see him thinking he was going to "slip it past" someone like Galz or Teproc without it being caught (same logic as Galz pointing out XXR mistake as Town vs Mafia but in reverse).

Also, IMO the night where RR died is fishy. I am on Chairs, I am up to the rope, and whatever else is going on. Tep has obv voted for RR many times in the game so far. So, as Skum!XXR and Skum!Chairs having the whole vote, then "oh no I missed the deadline" thing seems like a good play after I pile on the L-1 Vote. Also, if I were him, my play right now would to be sit silent and wait for someone to call me out as he was labeled a few times throughout the game. Also, his claim as VT is super safe. I mean he COULD BE VT, but if you wanted to make sure to "re-XXR" the situation, it is the safe claim as no one can argue with it.

Furthermore, to the most recent point, Andrew claimed UB after the Chairs VT claim and is at least correct that I "went nowhere" N2. I also see the logic behind his "no result" claim from Galz in N3.

Chairs voted XXR on his lynch, but come on, what would you have done in that situation? XXR kind of sunk the ship on that one. If I had to guess - he is new, he had a thing written up based off previous day info, and then without thinking, posted it without reviewing.

Also... I am rambling I know, but no holding back now I guess... To visit a point made way earlier and more frequent in the game... It seems that if XXR is Skum he is being coached by Vets. Not to be offensive, but based on post frequency and interaction and stuff it would seem he did not have a lot of help... which leans me again towards Chairs. Not to mention RR was the other.

From the beginning Andrew has acted like I have acted towards Galz - this meaning we felt a little skummy towards him at first, and then it faded, and now it has faded more (or at least I am asssuming based on context, not to speak for you Andrew). As I am VT, I believe the logic and reasoning behind Andrews logic and reasoning towards Galz. This also continues to lean me towards Chairs.

All that in summary:
Vote: Chairs

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:04:34 am
Galz, I never said Psychotrooping was targeted. I've modded this setup you know. Still relevant for them to think when rhey might be targeted, because a scum result on town is not as beneficial to them as a town result on scum. With that particular scumteqm, I would not have used it N1.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:19:38 am
DatSwan, I think you're confusing certain elements here.

a) Andrew inherited Cop, not Tracker. He didn't claim you "didn't go anywhere" on N2, he claimed he got a Town result on you. Regardless... you claimed VT, remember ? Town knows exactly what you did each night because you told them in the thread.

b) All claims are safe claims for scum. VT, Universal Backup, Watcher. Those are all safe claims, because scum knows exacly what the setup is. One is not more suspicious than the other

Which leads me to

c) Have you reread chairs ? Because what you get from that is about five thousand times more important than him claiming VT, or your general impressions on the game so far. WHen someone flips scum, reset, look at the game as if you hadn't been in it since know you have crucial new information.

I'm not entirely sure who I want to lynch yet. I've figured out one person I don't want to, but I'm not sure beyond that. Going into the night, I though "well we lynch chairs tomorrow and we probably win, easy peasy" but I'm a little wary now, and it doesn't seem to me like the you (Andrew and DatSwan) are making sure this is what we want to do. I mean, chairs hasn't even posted yet.

Rereading is annoying, and I'm sure you're annoyed at me because I'm bossing people around (something I tend to do anyway but being an IC makes it worse). I'm sorry about that. But I think rereading everyone alive (well, everyone who could be scum at least, you can probably skip me) should be a prerequisite before voting at this point in the game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:20:27 am
"Town knows exactly..."  (in a)) should be "Scum/Everyone knows exactly..."
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:22:34 am
To clarify b): you might think Andrew's claim is townie because of its content, and that's fine, I happen to agree there. Not because the content is "right" but because you think it's not the claim scum!Andrew would make, or something. But it's not inherently more townie than a VT claim.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:43:03 am
So I'd like to now: Andrew, DatSwan, I get that you want to lynch chairs. Who do you NOT want to lynch though ? Who, among the three other people in your lynchpool, do you think is least likely to be scum ?

I'd advise rereading them before answering that. Make sure. Don't rely on whatever your feelings were during the game, because now (with RR and XRaptor flipping) we have hard data.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on August 31, 2017, 04:43:13 am
to know*
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: chairs on August 31, 2017, 09:14:13 am
Sorry, I know this is a critical game juncture but I don't know when I'm going to be able to make a post more meaningful than "Hi I haven't forgotten this". Possibly tonight, but if not it won't be until like Tuesday.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on August 31, 2017, 03:20:24 pm
I feel like the way RR pushes Galz is not really how I would picture RR talking to his partner. I also think it seems like chairs jumps on RR and xxraptor reluctantly and sheeps Teproc at one point, so significantly scummier to me. I'm pretty confident DatSwan is town based on his suspicions on RR and his "mistake" vote on Skumpy yesterday.

So I'm pretty sure we're looking at scum!chairs here. If he flips town then I'd really be stumped, considering psychotrooper is a thing. I guess I'd go with Galz though and just hope it wasn't used N2.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on August 31, 2017, 07:58:32 pm
DatSwan, I think you're confusing certain elements here.

a) Andrew inherited Cop, not Tracker. He didn't claim you "didn't go anywhere" on N2, he claimed he got a Town result on you. Regardless... you claimed VT, remember ? Town knows exactly what you did each night because you told them in the thread.

b) All claims are safe claims for scum. VT, Universal Backup, Watcher. Those are all safe claims, because scum knows exacly what the setup is. One is not more suspicious than the other

Which leads me to

c) Have you reread chairs ? Because what you get from that is about five thousand times more important than him claiming VT, or your general impressions on the game so far. WHen someone flips scum, reset, look at the game as if you hadn't been in it since know you have crucial new information.

I'm not entirely sure who I want to lynch yet. I've figured out one person I don't want to, but I'm not sure beyond that. Going into the night, I though "well we lynch chairs tomorrow and we probably win, easy peasy" but I'm a little wary now, and it doesn't seem to me like the you (Andrew and DatSwan) are making sure this is what we want to do. I mean, chairs hasn't even posted yet.

Rereading is annoying, and I'm sure you're annoyed at me because I'm bossing people around (something I tend to do anyway but being an IC makes it worse). I'm sorry about that. But I think rereading everyone alive (well, everyone who could be scum at least, you can probably skip me) should be a prerequisite before voting at this point in the game.

No problem man. I mean I agree with the re reading idea. I did give everyone a glance. I actually went back and re read through some other late mafia games that ya'll have participated in on the forums. But, as we are in game time mode now, I will take the advice and give chairs another read. I don't think it is annoying, it is kind of the part that makes it fun :P

To elaborate on the first points:
1) Was reading XXR while typing out Andrew thing. I just mixed up. I understand the differences.
2) I would like to point out that they are not actually exactly the same in value of claim. I mean in a situation where skum actually knows literally 100% of which roles are on and off and who belongs to who (meaning 0% of false results, or never missing at night, and just everything) THENNNNN, yes it is the same. It was more of just to point out the differences between Andrew claim and his claim. Andrew claimed a PR and IMO gave sound reasoning I think is at least mostly accurate if not entirely. I do not think Galz is skum. I know you (IC) are not skum. and I know I am not skum. So I voted for chairs.

Answering your next post in this one too. As mentioned above, I will give chairs another re read. I am off the rest of the day so I will post later this evening on it. unvote
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on August 31, 2017, 08:00:16 pm
So I'd like to now: Andrew, DatSwan, I get that you want to lynch chairs. Who do you NOT want to lynch though ? Who, among the three other people in your lynchpool, do you think is least likely to be scum ?

I'd advise rereading them before answering that. Make sure. Don't rely on whatever your feelings were during the game, because now (with RR and XRaptor flipping) we have hard data.

Fair enough question. Skummiest to Towniest:
Chairs
Andrew
Galz
-----
Me and Teproc
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on September 01, 2017, 02:20:39 am
Vote Count 5.1

chairs (1): AndrewisFTTW,
Not voting (4): Galzria, chairs, Teproc, DatSwan

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 ends Wednesday, 6th of September at 4.30am.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 01, 2017, 08:29:45 am
Alright, so the plan is:

chairs is going to do his whole rereading and saying where that gets him on Tuesday. In the meantime, Galz should do the same, and we can discuss where we want to go from there. But we're not lynching anyone before Tuesday.

People should feel free to vote, I just don't want a hammer before chairs gets a chance to give his thoughts.   

If people could try and be around on Tuesday so that we can make sure we don't miss the deadline either.

Actually: given that a player is going to be V/LA for most of the day, can we get an extension of 24 hours ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: LaLight on September 01, 2017, 08:33:37 am
Alright, so the plan is:

chairs is going to do his whole rereading and saying where that gets him on Tuesday. In the meantime, Galz should do the same, and we can discuss where we want to go from there. But we're not lynching anyone before Tuesday.

People should feel free to vote, I just don't want a hammer before chairs gets a chance to give his thoughts.   

If people could try and be around on Tuesday so that we can make sure we don't miss the deadline either.

Actually: given that a player is going to be V/LA for most of the day, can we get an extension of 24 hours ?

Sure.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on September 01, 2017, 08:33:58 am
Vote Count 5.2

chairs (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not voting (4): Galzria, chairs, Teproc, DatSwan

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 ends Thursday, 7th of September at 4.30am.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 01, 2017, 09:19:05 am
Thanks. We'll still lynch on Tuesday, ideally, but that way we won't have to be too worried about the deadline.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 03, 2017, 04:03:41 am
I know we're waiting for chairs but we're still allowed to post. Galz, I want to hear from you: have you reread yet ? Who do you think is most/least likely to be scum in your lynchpool ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 12:11:09 pm
I know we're waiting for chairs but we're still allowed to post. Galz, I want to hear from you: have you reread yet ? Who do you think is most/least likely to be scum in your lynchpool ?

Yes, I've reread. But I'll wait to hear from Chairs before posting (also, like every weekend, nearly 0 availability until Monday).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 03, 2017, 01:47:16 pm
I know we're waiting for chairs but we're still allowed to post. Galz, I want to hear from you: have you reread yet ? Who do you think is most/least likely to be scum in your lynchpool ?

Yes, I've reread. But I'll wait to hear from Chairs before posting (also, like every weekend, nearly 0 availability until Monday).

Fine.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: chairs on September 03, 2017, 09:21:31 pm
Look fam, I'm going to be honest here, I don't think I win this one regardless and my availability is going to continue to be an issue all week. It's been fun but I think I really pooched it D2 (even though holy shit I felt good about things on D1).

I'm scum.

vote: chairs

Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on September 03, 2017, 10:10:04 pm
This was so much fun and I hope to play again!
vote: chairs
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:10:42 pm
Look fam, I'm going to be honest here, I don't think I win this one regardless and my availability is going to continue to be an issue all week. It's been fun but I think I really pooched it D2 (even though holy shit I felt good about things on D1).

I'm scum.

vote: chairs

Aww, wish you hadn't thrown it in. I mean, you were probably the lynch today (it's where I was going) - but still.

I really came around on the scum team D3. My flip to town!Faust really solved the game for me.

vote: chairs

Make it official.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on September 03, 2017, 10:16:42 pm
Lol flip town for no reason and give me a cool story pleaseeeee
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:42:00 pm
Here's a question for those interested in considering it (easier for Faust and I)

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

This is the end of day vote:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

I wasn't considering all 3 as the leading theory at the time, but still.

Faust, still gonna argue my methods? :)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:43:51 pm
((Tongue-in-cheek)). That post only came around because I became convinced you were town.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:50:55 pm
LaLiiiiight.... lock and unlock the thread....
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:53:12 pm
Robz... I'm sorry for lynching you D1!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 10:53:38 pm
 And Jake.... man.... town gotta stop self voting.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on September 03, 2017, 11:00:10 pm
Can we see the mafia thread for the 5 mins following the XXR claim
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 03, 2017, 11:05:45 pm
Yay ! You were going to be lynched, yes, I was just covering our bases by giving you a chance to give your reads in case you were town. But this works too.

This was a pretty hard game...it looked pretty desperate for a while, really glad we managed to turn it around with a bit of luck.

Can we see the mafia thread for the 5 mins following the XXR claim

It's closed during the day. ;)
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 11:06:29 pm
Re: psychotrooping N1: yeah you shoot it, because you're the kind of player that gets investigated on N1. I would too.

A team of RR/XRaptor/DatSwan (which is the only relevant thing re: Psychtrooper) would not, or at least there's a strong chance they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you're spending any time thinking about the rest. How is it relevant ? Don't answer that.

Actually there was a relevant part: ANdrew "forgetting" about Cop Enabler. He didn't forget, he seemed to think there could be multiple though. WHich is very weird, and you know what I think that means.

Because reconstructing the game is how I operate.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Swowl on September 03, 2017, 11:12:10 pm
Good job team! I was probably gonna have a beer anyways, but let's all pretend this one is for us :P
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 03, 2017, 11:21:50 pm
Re: psychotrooping N1: yeah you shoot it, because you're the kind of player that gets investigated on N1. I would too.

A team of RR/XRaptor/DatSwan (which is the only relevant thing re: Psychtrooper) would not, or at least there's a strong chance they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you're spending any time thinking about the rest. How is it relevant ? Don't answer that.

Actually there was a relevant part: ANdrew "forgetting" about Cop Enabler. He didn't forget, he seemed to think there could be multiple though. WHich is very weird, and you know what I think that means.

Because reconstructing the game is how I operate.

The thing about it that bothered me is that I was very worried about what happened if chairs flipped town. I was pretty convinced about the othr two being town, you I always had some doubt worrying me, and those huge posts filled with very little of what mattered most made me think of MII!Galz.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 11:28:01 pm
Re: psychotrooping N1: yeah you shoot it, because you're the kind of player that gets investigated on N1. I would too.

A team of RR/XRaptor/DatSwan (which is the only relevant thing re: Psychtrooper) would not, or at least there's a strong chance they wouldn't.

I have no idea why you're spending any time thinking about the rest. How is it relevant ? Don't answer that.

Actually there was a relevant part: ANdrew "forgetting" about Cop Enabler. He didn't forget, he seemed to think there could be multiple though. WHich is very weird, and you know what I think that means.

Because reconstructing the game is how I operate.

The thing about it that bothered me is that I was very worried about what happened if chairs flipped town. I was pretty convinced about the othr two being town, you I always had some doubt worrying me, and those huge posts filled with very little of what mattered most made me think of MII!Galz.

It's a bit of my downfall. I don't "play to my scum game"... I just play my game. I don't have (from my point of view) a huge meta difference. I just play both to the best of my ability to help my team win. I tend to sound like me though,
 regardless of my alignment.

It's a reasonable concern. The best I can try to do is be confident and hope that if/when I die I've provided value to my team.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 11:32:35 pm
Fwiw... In this game, in this situation, HERE, I would claim like I did again. I think it played to town's benefit this game. That DOESN'T make it a good play. And almost every other game the play is wrong. I'm happy with the results here.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on September 03, 2017, 11:39:07 pm
GG.

I disagree Galz, I don't see how it benefitted town. I'm just thankful scum didn't hit a PR (if I remember correctly) after you helped them with their poe.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2017, 11:56:50 pm
GG.

I disagree Galz, I don't see how it benefitted town. I'm just thankful scum didn't hit a PR (if I remember correctly) after you helped them with their poe.

You are correct. From a pure, mathematical, logical, correct play standpoint. 100%.

THIS game, I strongly believe that moving forward off that day it helped orient the conversation and setup our winning run. You always wanted me lynched, but I think you were the only one. And the only PR's that got night killed were after they claimed.

Yes, you're technically correct in your statement for all the right reasons. Which is why I understand why you don't agree with the play. But from the "non tangible" side, I think it helped us win more than it hurt.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 01:20:27 am
While I wait for mafia/mod/speccy, my QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/KFmD3kvPpxM9T), in which I do not appreciate the claim in question. In retrospect I was a bit harsh, mainly because you were saying there was no cost to it, which there definitely was in theory. I did see it as somewhat townie in the end, so it worked there. I don't think we needed it to have something to talk about early day 2 though, the D1 wagon analysis was enough.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 01:33:12 am
Thread Locked
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (N0!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 01:34:06 am
Vote Count 5.final

chairs (3): AndrewisFTTW, chairs, DatSwan
Not voting (2): Galzria, Teproc

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 01:36:01 am
chairs was lynched! They wereLaLight's impersonation, the hidden Jester.

chairs, the Jester, won the game!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 01:37:35 am
Sorry, just joking. chairs was a Long Vacation.

Town won! Thread unlocked.


Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 01:38:02 am
Ah, Jester jokes. It'd been a while.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 01:40:09 am
Mod QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/b9QDkut8Gt4)
Scum QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/DCb5hEaLetVs)
speccy (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ArGFafWQsyB)

People are free to share their QTs. Also I have multiple thoughts on MVP because couple of you called scumteam superearly (Galz and Teproc), also here's Skumpy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: faust on September 04, 2017, 02:00:46 am
Faust, still gonna argue my methods? :)
Always.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 02:04:08 am
While I wait for mafia/mod/speccy, my QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/KFmD3kvPpxM9T), in which I do not appreciate the claim in question. In retrospect I was a bit harsh, mainly because you were saying there was no cost to it, which there definitely was in theory. I did see it as somewhat townie in the end, so it worked there. I don't think we needed it to have something to talk about early day 2 though, the D1 wagon analysis was enough.

I AM aware it was frustrating.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 02:07:59 am
Faust, still gonna argue my methods? :)
Always.

That's ok. I'll still stand by them and their effectiveness.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Skumpy on September 04, 2017, 02:10:58 am
also here's Skumpy.

Whadda that mean?

GG All. Fun and stressful times! Sorry it had to end that way, but yeah, it didn't look like Chairs was getting out of there alive. Good to know I tricked scum into thinking I was a VT, that was wonderful. Now I have to go read back and kick myself for missing all the obvious clues.

Here's my QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/X22aSPARVXC6g) if anybody cares. Not much I said in it that I didn't say in the game, besides me calling Faust a jerk (sorry, I was convinced you were scum even before N2!)

@ the claim of question: I guess I was really concerned during the later game because I thought it made it more likely for me to die. In retrospect...I guess it worked? I dunno, DatSwan also claiming made me not think it was both of you. Is it something you would've done if you were scum?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 02:11:47 am
also here's Skumpy.

Whadda that mean?

That means that you are a very good candidate for MVP.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 02:15:55 am
Please, go ahead and send me your candidate for MVP via pm. In 3 days, I will pronounce one based on votes. Thank you!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Skumpy on September 04, 2017, 02:21:00 am
also here's Skumpy.

Whadda that mean?

That means that you are a very good candidate for MVP.

That's an honor I was not expecting to even be considered for. I'm not gonna push a case for myself, I did some very good things that game and some very bad things. For the other two, Galz's reads were mostly good and town won, so I suspect his day 2 claim played a big part in that. Teproc did a really nice job of managing the game (like, read back, he made for a very soothing voice of reason).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 02:34:53 am
also here's Skumpy.

Whadda that mean?

GG All. Fun and stressful times! Sorry it had to end that way, but yeah, it didn't look like Chairs was getting out of there alive. Good to know I tricked scum into thinking I was a VT, that was wonderful. Now I have to go read back and kick myself for missing all the obvious clues.

Here's my QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/X22aSPARVXC6g) if anybody cares. Not much I said in it that I didn't say in the game, besides me calling Faust a jerk (sorry, I was convinced you were scum even before N2!)

@ the claim of question: I guess I was really concerned during the later game because I thought it made it more likely for me to die. In retrospect...I guess it worked? I dunno, DatSwan also claiming made me not think it was both of you. Is it something you would've done if you were scum?

I mean... no. But that's not fair because yes?

No. For a lot of reasons. Most importantly is that it easily could've backfired and gotten me lynched. I played it with extreme confidence and cockiness because I had to in order to make it work. That's extremely dangerous that early from a scum standpoint. Secondly, it would've taken away my ability to fake claim to save my life (or control the game).

The thing with my claim in M100 as scum is that it was verifiable. This... wasn't. It wouldn't have served me as scum.

And honestly... I expect to be lynched making that claim most of the time. I didn't know that I could pull it off as town here. But ultimately... (here's my QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/kk66FNk5WsAHx ) I did it because it was fun.

I don't think I would do it as scum because if it failed I would feel worse for my team than when I'm town. Because when scum I've got the chance to talk to and plan with my buddies, and I feel like I would be letting them down.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 02:39:01 am
N1 from my QT:

"Well. Hell. If I'm alive tomorrow I think I'll claim first post. Why not? 13 players, 3 scum, 2 probable dead town. Is it ideal? No, probably not. Will it read "planned"? Yes, probably. But nobody is going to claim I've been coached, so if I'm scum this is all me. And what does it deny me? Certainly a fakeclaim later, yes. So... idk - but it'll be fun. O said in 100 that playing for fun is the best reason to play and I agree. Maybe we win. Maybe we lose. But sure, why the hell not?"
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 02:43:25 am
This, from my QT D2, is what I meant by the claim helping me form my reads:

"I also think it's natural for town not to like my claim. I think scum know I'm town so can play it a little more hesitantly. I don't super expect scum to go all out against me over it, although they can always play the "Well he was just bad town" after I'm dead... so maybe. They also could want me lynched for fear that I'm lying and have a PR - and this is a decent way to push that.

But I dunno. I expect at least one scum, if not two, to have stayed away from pushing me.

That's: {Chairs, Roadrunner, DatSwan, Skumpy, TWM, Raptor}"
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 02:59:38 am
Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 03:06:33 am
Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?

I didn't want to draw attention to it, not knowing if you used it or not.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 03:08:48 am
Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?

I didn't want to draw attention to it, not knowing if you used it or not.

Right... very hard for scum to forget about it here, but ok. Funny that it brought you so many town point in my mind, all based on a false premise.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 03:10:56 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 03:12:58 am
Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?

I didn't want to draw attention to it, not knowing if you used it or not.

Right... very hard for scum to forget about it here, but ok. Funny that it brought you so many town point in my mind, all based on a false premise.

I mean, I guess? I didn't think it was worth drawing attention to.

Also, we got super lucky in the end. Scum DID in fact Psycho N1. And Gkrieg saw Raptor as town. His death meant we were never fed bad information.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 03:16:17 am
Damn. So close. Scum initial orders N2 were to kill me. That would've been icing on the cake.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Skumpy on September 04, 2017, 03:19:25 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan

The setup said town roleblocking gets priority over scum roleblocking.


Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?

So based on Galz/Teproc/TWM's comments/qt's, I've learned that even as town, you guys really like to play your mind games. I just play the stream-of-conscious-spew-everything-I'm-thinking game.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 03:21:14 am
My argument was that they wouldn't psycho N1 with a Raptor/RR/Datswan team specifically. I suppose I might have thought the same of the actual team though. I don't think we got particularly lucky there, we know Psycho is in the setup and cop results have to be taken with a grain of salt. if anything they got lucky with the gkrieg kill, doesn't look like they particularly suspected him of being a PR.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 03:30:32 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan

The setup said town roleblocking gets priority over scum roleblocking.


Wait, you faked forgetting about Commuter ? To what purpose ?

So based on Galz/Teproc/TWM's comments/qt's, I've learned that even as town, you guys really like to play your mind games. I just play the stream-of-conscious-spew-everything-I'm-thinking game.

Both playstyles have their set of strengths and weaknesses. A lot of it depends on your ability to escape mislynches: the better you are at not getting lynched, the more closed-off you can be.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 03:43:06 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan

Town rb happens before scum rb
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: faust on September 04, 2017, 03:55:41 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan

Town rb happens before scum rb
That's not how night action resolution works. At least not the way I interpret it, and not the way mafiascum does either.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 03:58:56 am
LaLight...

N2, if Raptor RB'd Faust, why did Faust stop Skumpy from healing TWM?

RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan

Town rb happens before scum rb
That's not how night action resolution works. At least not the way I interpret it, and not the way mafiascum does either.

Yeah,  it's weird. But it was stated thusly in the setup so...
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 04:00:33 am
Also, I've now pulled even in W/L for my town games which makes me happy.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2017, 04:02:36 am
- Rolestopping resolves before Town!Roleblocking which resolves before Mafia!Roleblocking

I doublechecked this and the only logical thing for me to do was to follow the setup.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Open for sign-ups!)
Post by: faust on September 04, 2017, 04:29:01 am
- Rolestopping resolves before Town!Roleblocking which resolves before Mafia!Roleblocking

I doublechecked this and the only logical thing for me to do was to follow the setup.
Well it is certainly worded weirdly. I think it is only meant to be in case of conflict, i.e. if town and scum Roleblockers target each other and and the scum RB also performs the kill. But I can see why you chose to do it this way with that wording.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: chairs on September 04, 2017, 11:02:05 am
I may have been more than a little thrown off-balance by the mangled Tracker claim when I was hoping/expecting a VT claim from my partner :(
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D5)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2017, 11:30:47 am
Robz... I'm sorry for lynching you D1!

All is forgiven if you excuse me wrongly reading you as scum in the spec QT!

And yay town! This seemed like a tough one and y'all did great.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 04, 2017, 12:01:13 pm
While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 12:11:17 pm

While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 01:10:35 pm

While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.

This is where I point out that town!gkrieg "only" gets killed N1 in 17.86% of his games, which is less often than - only looking at currently active players - faust (28,13%), Robz (25%), e (21,05%) and myself (20%). All-time recordman is joth, who got killed N1 a full third of his town games.

I know you weren't serious but you know, stats are fun, even though I can't guarantee they're 100% accurate.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 04, 2017, 01:25:36 pm

While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.

This is where I point out that town!gkrieg "only" gets killed N1 in 17.86% of his games, which is less often than - only looking at currently active players - faust (28,13%), Robz (25%), e (21,05%) and myself (20%). All-time recordman is joth, who got killed N1 a full third of his town games.

I know you weren't serious but you know, stats are fun, even though I can't guarantee they're 100% accurate.

I wonder how that changes if you just look at my last 5 or 10 games.  But I agree!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2017, 01:29:05 pm

While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.

This is where I point out that town!gkrieg "only" gets killed N1 in 17.86% of his games, which is less often than - only looking at currently active players - faust (28,13%), Robz (25%), e (21,05%) and myself (20%). All-time recordman is joth, who got killed N1 a full third of his town games.

I know you weren't serious but you know, stats are fun, even though I can't guarantee they're 100% accurate.

Which is weird. I don't recall killing Joetheonah that often back then.

Still decently high for Gkrieg, and he's been the N1 target in two of my three normal games back so it definitely stands out, even if it is a ridiculously small sample size.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 04, 2017, 01:30:21 pm
I even tried to stay under the radar, until that became boring and I stopped.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 04, 2017, 03:10:20 pm

While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.

This is where I point out that town!gkrieg "only" gets killed N1 in 17.86% of his games, which is less often than - only looking at currently active players - faust (28,13%), Robz (25%), e (21,05%) and myself (20%). All-time recordman is joth, who got killed N1 a full third of his town games.

I know you weren't serious but you know, stats are fun, even though I can't guarantee they're 100% accurate.

Which is weird. I don't recall killing Joetheonah that often back then.

Still decently high for Gkrieg, and he's been the N1 target in two of my three normal games back so it definitely stands out, even if it is a ridiculously small sample size.

In 15 regular town games, joth got killed N1 5 times:
- M6: Life in the Border Village - you were town
- M13: Hydras, Hydras Everywhere - you were town
- M18: Major Arcana II - you were town
- M20: Masons and Monks - you weren't playing
- M44: Donald's Greater Idea - you weren't playing

I do limit it to people who have at least 10 town games, but it's still not a huge sample size.


While I'm sad I died N1, great job guys!

Msn... you do that A LOT recently. And from what I've seen, your reads are usually pretty good. Think I'll need to lynch you D2 next time you survive as it must simply mean you're scum.

This is where I point out that town!gkrieg "only" gets killed N1 in 17.86% of his games, which is less often than - only looking at currently active players - faust (28,13%), Robz (25%), e (21,05%) and myself (20%). All-time recordman is joth, who got killed N1 a full third of his town games.

I know you weren't serious but you know, stats are fun, even though I can't guarantee they're 100% accurate.

I wonder how that changes if you just look at my last 5 or 10 games.  But I agree!

Last 10 games: 20%
Last 5 games: 40%

Which really just means you were killed N1 in 2 of your last 5 town games: M100 and this one, 105.

All normal games.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 04, 2017, 04:59:33 pm
Means killing me N1 is trending!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on September 05, 2017, 09:44:17 pm
RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan
Thanks for trying to save me Skumpy! Hope you, and Raptor and Datswan, enjoyed the game and will consider playing again.
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on September 05, 2017, 11:08:17 pm
RR shoots TWM
Skumpy heals TWM
faust rbs Skumpy (duh)
Xx RBs faust
Andrew cops DatSwan
Thanks for trying to save me Skumpy! Hope you, and Raptor and Datswan, enjoyed the game and will consider playing again.
This, very much. I didn't interact with you guys that much, mostly because I was scum, but I envied playing with all three of you quite a lot!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Skumpy on September 08, 2017, 12:23:53 am
Please, go ahead and send me your candidate for MVP via pm. In 3 days, I will pronounce one based on votes. Thank you!

¿Qué es el status of this?
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: LaLight on September 08, 2017, 03:46:57 am
Status is "forgotten". Okay, I counted all the votes and Skumpy is the MVP of M105!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 08, 2017, 04:01:42 am
Congrats Skumpy!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Skumpy on September 08, 2017, 04:27:06 am
Wow, OK. Thanks to everybody who voted for me, I hope the newbieness wasn't a factor in the decision. I thought Teproc should've had it after how I almost singlehandedly ruined day 3 and he got us back on track. Take note future newbies, it's apparently possible to go from not understanding the setup (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg709683#msg709683) to MVP.

Thanks to LaLight for modding and the 12 fellow players for putting up with me. Looking forward to future games (I didn't do 108 because I didn't wanna take a spot from people who know anything at all about Lost).
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Galzria on September 08, 2017, 04:47:18 am
I definitely liked you for MVP because it was my certainty on your alignment and my flipped belief on Faust that led me to pinning the mafia team. Without being able to rule you two out that isn't really doable. But that gave me 4 people I believed to be town out of 9 players. That left 3 scum in a pool of 5, and from there putting together the team was easy.

TWM, despite not having the best personal game, falls into that same category. Making oneself town read as town cannot be overstated. He did it well, you did it well. Good job!
Title: Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)
Post by: Teproc on September 08, 2017, 04:49:02 am
Congrats Skumpy ! :)

Not understanding the setup is not as uncommon as you might think.