Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 03:45:27 am

Title: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 03:45:27 am
Welcome to M98: Русская Mafia by LaLight.

This game is for 11 players, and is classified as normal. It was designed by yuma as an open setup. This setup was played previously in M51 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11779.0)

Co-mod:

Sign ups are open. Rules to come.


1. Awaclus Lynched D1: VT
2. Robz888
3. The_Wine_Merchant Lynched D2: VT
4. schadd
5. Eevee Lynched D3: Roleblocking Traitor
6. gkrieg13 Killed N3: Town Detective
7. AndrewisFTTW Killed N2: VT
8. 2.71828..... Killed N3: Town Jailkeeper
9. faust Killed N4: Mafia Roleblocker
10. mcmcsalot Killed N1: Mafia Goon
11. kkrieg

Tags: Roadrunner7671, J Reggie, SpaceAnemone

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.


The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
7. Prods will be issued by request after 24 hours of inactivity. Players are subject to replacement or modkill upon the third prod request.
8. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last 7 IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 03:45:34 am
The setup for this game is Traitor8 and was designed by yuma.

Traitor8 is a semi-open setup for 11 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

Mafia:
2 Mafia + 1 Roleblocking Traitor

Town:
Up to 8 players

One of the following rows or columns adding a scum add on depending on the row added:


xxxx               Column1         Column2         Column3         Column4         Add-On           
Row1              VT                  Detective         1-shot CommuterGoon Cop         1-shot Investigation Immune/SK
Row2                Watcher            JK                     VT                     Psychologist       2-shot JOAT       
Row3                1-shot Bulletproof Townie VT                     JK                     BodyguardTraitor Knows Mafia         
Row4                 1-shot CommuterPsychologist        Detective            VT                      Mafia Knows Traitor   
Add-On              2-shot JOAT       Mafia Knows Traitor/SKTraitorKnows Mafia/SK1-shot Investigation Immune      xxxxxxx           

To clarify here are the 8 options:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune


Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.


Mechanics:
- All roles will be used according to mafiascum specification unless otherwise noted below.
- Daystart
- Mafia JOAT is an option of Strongman and Ninja (each can only be used once) and is not an assigned role, instead it is universal for the mafia team. But is instead a role that any alive mafia player can use it while performing the night kill.
- Mafia Investigation Immune is universal. It will return results of "Not Goon" to Goon Cops, "Not Killed" to Detectives, "Can't Kill" to Psychologists and "Didn't Target Anyone" to Watchers.
- Traitor does not know the identity of Mafia Partners unless it is added on as a bonus. Traitor will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in a PM if that add-on is selected.
- Mafia does not know the identity of the Traitor unless it is added on as a bonus. The Mafia will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in their quicktopic if that add-on is selected.
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
- If the Mafia target the Traitor with a NK, the Traitor will not die unless mafia is using a strongman kill. Otherwise, the Traitor will be recruited and become a Mafia Roleblocker and be given access to the quicktopic.
- The Traitor can Roleblock a Mafia NK.
- If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive.
- Goon Cop will return results of Goon or Not Goon.
- Detective will return results of having killed or not killed.
- Psychologist will return results of being capable of killing or not capable. But if a kill has been performed previously, the result will be falsified. Traitors are not capable of killing until they have been converted into Mafia Roleblockers
- Roles cannot target themselves.
- Flavor will not be indicative of alignment.

Order of Operations: (roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)
Modifiers (Ninja/Strongman)
Commuter
Blocking (Jailkeeper, Roleblocking)
Protective (Bodyguard, Bulletproof)
Killing
Investigative (Watcher, Psychologist, Detective, Goon Cop)

Win Conditions:
- Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
- Mafia wins when Mafia (not counting the Traitor, unless the traitor has become a Mafia Roleblocker) controls at least half of the Town and the SK, if present, has been eliminated.
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
   * If the Traitor is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
   * If either original mafia are the last mafia alive, the SK will win.

Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 03:47:28 am
Every player will get the flavor name in russian but it won't be in any way influencing the alignment.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: Awaclus on April 11, 2017, 04:05:55 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on April 11, 2017, 07:27:46 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on April 11, 2017, 07:27:57 am
/tag
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2017, 08:42:54 am
Possible /in.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: schadd on April 11, 2017, 08:53:42 am
/B
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: J Reggie on April 11, 2017, 09:59:25 am
/tagswag
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: Eevee on April 11, 2017, 10:50:00 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2017, 10:57:02 am
My nemesis setup eh? 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 10:58:55 am
just before I rolled the setup, does Strongman go through Commuter?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2017, 10:59:23 am
just before I rolled the setup, does Strongman go through Commuter?

Нет
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: Eevee on April 11, 2017, 10:59:50 am
No, right? (Testing myself.)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: LaLight on April 11, 2017, 10:59:57 am
just before I rolled the setup, does Strongman go through Commuter?

Нет

Спасибо, друг
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2017, 11:00:41 am
just before I rolled the setup, does Strongman go through Commuter?

Нет

Спасибо, друг
Пожалуйста
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 11, 2017, 11:02:30 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2017, 11:19:41 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 11, 2017, 12:17:14 pm
just before I rolled the setup, does Strongman go through Commuter?

I do not think Strongman goes through Commuter, personally.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: schadd on April 11, 2017, 12:18:58 pm
no matter how strong u are, u can never kill someone if they're in a different place
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on April 11, 2017, 06:29:08 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (signups are open!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2017, 10:08:35 pm
Possible /in.

I'll turn this into a hard /in. But please note my stated VLA if this starts in the next few days.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: faust on April 13, 2017, 05:11:30 am
/in
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 13, 2017, 05:16:09 am
/tag

Would love to play, but I've just proven that I really can't cope with three games at once :-(
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 13, 2017, 04:46:52 pm
/in setup looks great
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (1 spot left!)
Post by: kkrieg on April 14, 2017, 01:27:47 am
I would like to play but since gkrieg is playing, I'll only play if it's ok with everyone.

We obviously wouldn't talk about the game at all outside of the forum.

If anyone is uncomfortable with me playing I totally understand!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (1 spot left!)
Post by: LaLight on April 14, 2017, 01:48:15 am
I would like to play but since gkrieg is playing, I'll only play if it's ok with everyone.

We obviously wouldn't talk about the game at all outside of the forum.

If anyone is uncomfortable with me playing I totally understand!

If it comes to me, i am perfectly fine with that
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (1 spot left!)
Post by: Awaclus on April 14, 2017, 04:07:45 am
I would like to play but since gkrieg is playing, I'll only play if it's ok with everyone.

We obviously wouldn't talk about the game at all outside of the forum.

If anyone is uncomfortable with me playing I totally understand!

I don't have any problems with it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (1 spot left!)
Post by: faust on April 14, 2017, 04:37:25 am
No probs. Also I look forward to playing with you!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (1 spot left!)
Post by: LaLight on April 14, 2017, 04:41:39 am
Okay then. I am sending pms starting in 10 minutes. Thread locked except for tags.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 14, 2017, 04:48:56 am
PMs are out. Also, I realised that some people are VLA for the weekends, so the game will start on Monday, 17th of April, at 5am FT. Confirms your roles in QTs stating them till then, please.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: SirMartin on April 15, 2017, 08:58:53 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 17, 2017, 05:22:35 am
Обычная русская деревня в Сибири. 12 семей, живущих здесь поколениями. Сотни лет все шло хорошо, пока однажды не прошел слух, что где-то рядом закопано золото... Кто-то решил откопать его и поделиться со всеми, но были и те, что договорились забрать все себе...

Common russian Siberian village. 12 families living in peace for generations. Hundreads of years everything went pretty normal, until one day, when some of villagers discovered gold, mined in the groung nearby. There were some who decided to split the gold evenly, but there were some who decided to cooperate and acquire more gold than others...

День 1 начался!

Vote count 1.0

Not voting (11):
Awaclus, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, schadd, Eevee, gkrieg13, AndrewisFTTW, 2,71828....., faust, mcmcsalot, kkrieg

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 05:35:11 am
First!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 05:44:40 am
Welcome welcome welcome!

There was something about this setup that should be talked about.

I remember now. The theory of claiming.

There are 4 roles in the roster that are unique:

Goon Cop
Watcher
1-shot Bulletproof
Bodyguard

Any claim of one of them limits the set of possible setups to 2, and for any of our PRs, to 1 (i.e. they know the setup exactly). On the flip side, it also lets the mafia know the exact setup.

Now Goon Cop and Watcher are awful claims of course. But 1-shot BP and Bodyguard may actually be beneficial - Bodyguard is not hurt a lot by a claim, and 1-shot BP givesus essentially a 1-shot BP IC. Fakeclaiming these roles should is impossible without counterclaim.

Opinions?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 06:21:53 am
Makes sense to me. A named townie is arguably stronger than bodyguards actual effect. 1-shot bulletproof is less clear.

Is it a big downside to have mafia know the actual setup? They usually find out before us via the flips anyways.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 07:54:27 am
Oh, one other thing: Bodyguard/1-shot BP can appear in the same setup; in that case, we probably (?) do not want both to claim.

So if we decide on claims, we should probably first all claim Bodyguard/non-Bodyguard and if there was no positive, continue with BP (or vice versa).

On the other hand, a coordinated procedure may be bad for us if there's no claim, because that would let mafia know the full setup while we may be none the wiser, so there's a risk.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 08:00:18 am
Maybe easier to wait like two days, and have the 1-shot BP claim then (if they feel that's the play to make)? To not have it completely dominate the discussion early.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 08:56:58 am
vote: awaclus
vote: robz
vote: twm
vote: eevee
vote: andrew
vote: e
vote: faust
vote: mcmc
vote: kkrieg

to level the playing field. and the last person on the playerlist is probably whomst i'd rvs anyway so that's nice.

bodyguard is nonzero town utility. bp probably wouldn't get nightkilled if they claimed.

because scum will almost certainly notice, and would likely nk you anyway:
we probably (?) do not want both to claim.
ya goof. c'mon
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 08:58:58 am
if i ruined some sort of elaborate breadcrumb wifom then i'm not sorry
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 08:59:33 am
and obv. feel free to not say anything about it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:01:32 am
Welcome welcome welcome!

There was something about this setup that should be talked about.

I remember now. The theory of claiming.

There are 4 roles in the roster that are unique:

Goon Cop
Watcher
1-shot Bulletproof
Bodyguard

Any claim of one of them limits the set of possible setups to 2, and for any of our PRs, to 1 (i.e. they know the setup exactly). On the flip side, it also lets the mafia know the exact setup.

Now Goon Cop and Watcher are awful claims of course. But 1-shot BP and Bodyguard may actually be beneficial - Bodyguard is not hurt a lot by a claim, and 1-shot BP givesus essentially a 1-shot BP IC. Fakeclaiming these roles should is impossible without counterclaim.

Opinions?

You know what, I don't hate this plan, particularly starting with all of us claiming Bodyguard / not Bodyguard. Let's discuss a bit more, but I'm favorably inclined for us to do that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:01:55 am
vote: robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:02:08 am
And yes, named townie seems much stronger than Bodyguard.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:02:43 am
robz what is your favorite color?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:04:24 am
robz what is your favorite color?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12g2t7G54nA
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:05:16 am
vote stays, sorry. even though that is also my favorite color (buddying?)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:08:25 am
And yes, named townie seems much stronger than Bodyguard.
is this backwards?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:12:50 am
And yes, named townie seems much stronger than Bodyguard.
is this backwards?

No. Bodyguard is lame.

Cool we have the same favorite color, though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:13:40 am
whether it's cool depends on your alignment this game. leaning towards not cool
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:19:40 am

pagetop

hey faust


















                                                                                                           u should be townreading me by now
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:27:10 am
whether it's cool depends on your alignment this game. leaning towards not cool

False, it's cool anyway.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:27:58 am
i hope that's a joke
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 09:38:18 am
u should be townreading me by now
Have you ever been scum here? I don't recall.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 09:39:39 am
Maybe easier to wait like two days, and have the 1-shot BP claim then (if they feel that's the play to make)? To not have it completely dominate the discussion early.
What's the problem with that? Would you rather have RVS?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:44:37 am
u should be townreading me by now
Have you ever been scum here? I don't recall.
twice; M87 (you weren't in it) and RMM37 (u were mod)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:44:56 am
Maybe easier to wait like two days, and have the 1-shot BP claim then (if they feel that's the play to make)? To not have it completely dominate the discussion early.
What's the problem with that? Would you rather have RVS?
yes pleeeeeeease
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 17, 2017, 09:47:51 am
being a bodyguard is lame.  I completely agree with converting them to IC.

whoever is the bodyguard (if we have one) should claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:53:11 am
every time you talk about the setup before d2 a penguin dies
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:54:20 am
The penguin was scum, anyway.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 17, 2017, 09:54:36 am
every time you talk about the setup before d2 a penguin dies

The setup is the primary reason I joined this game.  I love this setup.  modded it twice but never played it, figured I would give it a shot
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:55:28 am
let's hope u survive d1 then
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:55:43 am
So I'm coming off two games where I townread Andrew hard, and we was scum both times, and we (town) lost because of it. So don't look to me for a reliable opinion on Andrew.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:56:47 am
i'm still pissed that you said he was easy to read
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 09:59:24 am
Me too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 10:14:05 am
I like the claiming idea, and think it should also include 1-shot commuter. Their role is useless until they claim really.

Also, vote: Andrew. That guy really is always scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 17, 2017, 10:19:04 am
Hey everyone! I agree I like the bodyguard claiming and being an ic over being a useless bodyguard. Reading the setup though a bodyguard claim lets mafia know 100% the setup. A bodyguard is only present in two scenarios and in one of those mafia has a power.

Though I'm not sure if it's a problem if mafia know what the setup is. I feel like this setup is more solevable than most from one or two roles so I don't think mafia can really fake claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 10:20:58 am
So I'm coming off two games where I townread Andrew hard, and we was scum both times, and we (town) lost because of it. So don't look to me for a reliable opinion on Andrew.
That reminds me

Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 17, 2017, 10:21:24 am
I like the claiming idea, and think it should also include 1-shot commuter. Their role is useless until they claim really.

Also, vote: Andrew. That guy really is always scum.

Can't a one-shot commuter lay low/possibly use their commute if they might be nightkilled and claim later with some I have/haven't used my commute wifom for a late day ic/nk prevention.

Bodyguard on be otherhand just dies instead of someone else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 10:24:04 am
Maybe easier to wait like two days, and have the 1-shot BP claim then (if they feel that's the play to make)? To not have it completely dominate the discussion early.
What's the problem with that? Would you rather have RVS?
Can I have c), none of the above?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 10:33:53 am
Maybe easier to wait like two days, and have the 1-shot BP claim then (if they feel that's the play to make)? To not have it completely dominate the discussion early.
What's the problem with that? Would you rather have RVS?
Can I have c), none of the above?
Uh, that sounds harsher than I intended. I just think we get the information organically once everyone has posted, not like I vehemently oppose people claiming that way too.

I agree with mcmc's thinking about the 1-shot commuter.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 10:48:42 am
eevee's town
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 17, 2017, 10:49:45 am
eevee's town
heyo!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 10:53:27 am
stop
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 17, 2017, 11:03:26 am
Andrew said he wasn't going to sign up for any games with me in them, but he signed up for this anyway. That means he's lying SCUM.

Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 17, 2017, 11:07:32 am
Plan sounds ok. I would stick with the BG/1-shot and not include the commuter
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:12:17 am
awaclus is maybe lockscum but robz is a more interesting vote atm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 17, 2017, 11:12:36 am
As far as the Bodyguard issue is concerned, I think it's fine to do it either way. I remember I played some (other?) setup as scum where we had to decide between doing something better or doing something worse but playing around Bodyguard, so it's bretty good to have it be a possibility that we have a hidden Bodyguard that scum knows nothing about. On the other hand, the IC might be better than actually having the Bodyguard. So actually what I'd suggest is that we leave it up to the Bodyguard themselves to decide whether or not they want to claim if we have one, just so we can possibly have an IC but if we don't have a Bodyguard, scum doesn't instantly know that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 17, 2017, 11:19:58 am
As far as the Bodyguard issue is concerned, I think it's fine to do it either way. I remember I played some (other?) setup as scum where we had to decide between doing something better or doing something worse but playing around Bodyguard, so it's bretty good to have it be a possibility that we have a hidden Bodyguard that scum knows nothing about. On the other hand, the IC might be better than actually having the Bodyguard. So actually what I'd suggest is that we leave it up to the Bodyguard themselves to decide whether or not they want to claim if we have one, just so we can possibly have an IC but if we don't have a Bodyguard, scum doesn't instantly know that.
I kinda like this idea.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 11:25:49 am
Well it's always up to the Bodyguard themselves...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 17, 2017, 12:36:51 pm
Well it's always up to the Bodyguard themselves...

So true.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 12:37:24 pm
Vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 17, 2017, 12:46:23 pm
Vote: Awaclus
vote: awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 17, 2017, 01:23:13 pm
Well it's always up to the Bodyguard themselves...

But what I mean is that we shouldn't collectively decide that the Bodyguard should claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 01:32:41 pm
Well it's always up to the Bodyguard themselves...

But what I mean is that we shouldn't collectively decide that the Bodyguard should claim.
Okay, but how do we decide on Bodyguard vs 1-shot BP claiming?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 01:44:29 pm
I personally think a 1-shot BP should not claim. We want scum to actually shoot at a 1-shot BP--that's the best use of the PR, and it doesn't happen if a 1-shot BP claims, yes?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 17, 2017, 02:11:02 pm
I personally think a 1-shot BP should not claim. We want scum to actually shoot at a 1-shot BP--that's the best use of the PR, and it doesn't happen if a 1-shot BP claims, yes?

I agree with this.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 17, 2017, 02:12:34 pm
Oh there's a plan? Cool yeah do that. Let's lynch teh scum.

Vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 02:36:38 pm
I personally think a 1-shot BP should not claim. We want scum to actually shoot at a 1-shot BP--that's the best use of the PR, and it doesn't happen if a 1-shot BP claims, yes?
Having an unkillable IC is pretty sweet though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 17, 2017, 02:38:23 pm
I personally think a 1-shot BP should not claim. We want scum to actually shoot at a 1-shot BP--that's the best use of the PR, and it doesn't happen if a 1-shot BP claims, yes?
Having an unkillable IC is pretty sweet though.
In theory we could have both as long as we don't accidentally lynch the 1-shot BP. So maybe we shouldn't have any unannounced hammers or last minute lynches?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 03:20:26 pm
in theory it might be useful to be like "i'm BP. sheep me"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 17, 2017, 03:31:52 pm
I personally think a 1-shot BP should not claim. We want scum to actually shoot at a 1-shot BP--that's the best use of the PR, and it doesn't happen if a 1-shot BP claims, yes?
Having an unkillable IC is pretty sweet though.
In theory we could have both as long as we don't accidentally lynch the 1-shot BP. So maybe we shouldn't have any unannounced hammers or last minute lynches?
1. Preventing hammers and last minute lynches has never worked.
2. The 1-shot BP is only an IC as long as it does not make sense for scum to fakeclaim. Which it doesn't now, but may close to LyLo. And in this setup, LyLo can be D2.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 17, 2017, 04:20:06 pm
Vote count 1.1

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not voting (5): Robz888, Eevee, 2,71828....., mcmcsalot, kkrieg

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 17, 2017, 05:14:35 pm
in theory it might be useful to be like "i'm BP. sheep me"

I don't like this theory.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 05:30:07 pm
:c


not trusting d1 reads is SACRILEGE in my village
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 17, 2017, 06:58:31 pm
Kkrieg is gkrieg's wife, correct? Hi, kkrieg! Mcmcsalot and I are brothers, FWIW.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 08:05:35 pm
Kkrieg is gkrieg's wife, correct? Hi, kkrieg! Mcmcsalot and I are brothers, FWIW.

Yes that's right!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 09:35:12 pm
oh unfortunately there wasn't an SK last game so they didn't get to see my plan in action. if you are an SK it benefits you to claim in this setup
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 17, 2017, 11:07:14 pm
Hi everyone!

Just a heads up -
1. I'm new so I might will ask some questions
2. because of my work it's sometimes hard to post throughout my day


What's a role blocking traitor?


Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 17, 2017, 11:08:03 pm
Kkrieg is gkrieg's wife, correct? Hi, kkrieg! Mcmcsalot and I are brothers, FWIW.
Hi! And thanks for the info:)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:12:06 pm
Hi everyone!

Just a heads up -
1. I'm new so I might will ask some questions
2. because of my work it's sometimes hard to post throughout my day


What's a role blocking traitor?

A roleblocking traitor is 2 things:

1) the roleblocking part.  Each night they choose a target (Let's say Bob), any action that Bob takes won't happen (so if he doctors someone, it won't work).  This doesn't apply to 1-shot bulletproof (if Bob is 1-shot bp and scum shoots him at night and he is roleblocked, he will still be alive in the morning) or 1-shot commuter (they still run away and are untargetable by anyone).

2) the traitor part.  They are part of the mafia team, but they don't share a QT with the mafia.  And (unless we are playing a setup where this isn't the case) they don't know who the rest of the mafia team is, and the mafia team doesn't know who they are.

This also means that the traitor can't perform a night kill.

The traitor is recruited (joins the mafia team in full) if they are shot by the mafia at night, or if both of the other mafia are dead.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:19:37 pm
wowee get a room
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:20:31 pm
wowee get a room

Ironically that is like specifically what we are trying to avoid!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:21:38 pm
yeah


i'm still saying that every time one of you quotes the other


you maybe towntold (?)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 17, 2017, 11:22:54 pm
wowee get a room
No you get a room
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 17, 2017, 11:23:16 pm
yeah


i'm still saying that every time one of you quotes the other


you maybe towntold (?)
I'll say that every time you say that
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:24:13 pm
wowee get a room
No you get a room

<---
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:26:32 pm
for posterity: my current avatar is a little house thingo


i might change it before this game is over, this one is getting a little tired.


maybe my ms avatar?
(https://forum.mafiascum.net/download/file.php?avatar=29134_1486929365.png)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:29:29 pm
Hi everyone!

Just a heads up -
1. I'm new so I might will ask some questions
2. because of my work it's sometimes hard to post throughout my day


What's a role blocking traitor?

Also, I feel like you should have more questions (upside down emoji)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:32:22 pm
(http://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/cache/b8/a8/b8a873428554266b875ec50fccf542c7.png)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:35:19 pm
for posterity: my current avatar is a little house thingo


i might change it before this game is over, this one is getting a little tired.


maybe my ms avatar?
(https://forum.mafiascum.net/download/file.php?avatar=29134_1486929365.png)

I would vote against this avatar
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:37:24 pm
maybe i'll make another h*cking poll
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:40:11 pm
As long as it is a discrete discreet diss Crete poll
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:44:07 pm
what is ur alignment
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 17, 2017, 11:52:49 pm
what is ur alignment

Uh, the towniest town that ever towned. What about you?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 17, 2017, 11:54:50 pm
i think the only thing i want to claim rn is not SK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 17, 2017, 11:57:12 pm
what is ur alignment

Maf- Town! Town! Definitely town!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 17, 2017, 11:57:29 pm
U?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 12:01:33 am
i think the only thing i want to claim rn is not SK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2017, 12:06:06 am
I mean I'm fine with a possible SK claiming, but why?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 12:06:43 am
i'll explain after
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 01:00:04 am
guys i promise that if you all keep posting, i will be able to solve you and you will all become solved. try to keep it more than like 100/day for all of d1
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on April 18, 2017, 02:58:19 am
--tag--
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 03:22:56 am
What's a role blocking traitor?

Are you aware that such questions can be asked in your personal QT?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 03:23:33 am
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 03:24:07 am
ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 03:24:35 am
only one of them is scum though
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 03:26:29 am
only one of them is scum though
At most or exactly?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 03:27:25 am
exactly
i think
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 07:15:50 am
schadd is doing that thing that I was townreading him for in that one game where he was town, then I scumread him in another game for not doing it and he still was town. I am mildly confused as to what that means.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 07:50:47 am
the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 18, 2017, 08:07:01 am
the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells
well, scum always has a motive for appearing towny and doing things that win town-cred, which is of course why this is hard.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 08:17:50 am
the idea is that scum doesn't know what he's looking for. although i'm town and i do l0l
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 18, 2017, 08:24:02 am
schadd is doing that thing that I was townreading him for in that one game where he was town, then I scumread him in another game for not doing it and he still was town. I am mildly confused as to what that means.
Yeah, maybe it means that he's schadd?

Cryptic arguments ITT!

I would love to see scumschadd some day. It feels like his style would be hard to mimic, it would be fun to how he'd do it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 18, 2017, 10:09:32 am
What's a role blocking traitor?

Are you aware that such questions can be asked in your personal QT?

Yea - but I know gkrieg just loves answering game questions
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 18, 2017, 10:16:35 am
Just caught up, whole lot of completely empty posts from schadd, which I don't think is scum indicative but boy is it annoying.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 10:59:29 am
What's a role blocking traitor?

Are you aware that such questions can be asked in your personal QT?

Yea - but I know gkrieg just loves answering game questions
You probably shouldn't ask too many questions about Traitors if you want to stay on his good side... ;)

I rate this answer solid yet a litte disappointing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2017, 11:08:30 am
What's a role blocking traitor?

Are you aware that such questions can be asked in your personal QT?

Yea - but I know gkrieg just loves answering game questions
You probably shouldn't ask too many questions about Traitors if you want to stay on his good side... ;)

I rate this answer solid yet a litte disappointing.

Haha stupid traitor. Worst role in the history of stupid roles.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 18, 2017, 11:20:47 am
Do we have to lynch faust now?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2017, 11:36:00 am
the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells

That is very anti-town of you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 11:43:09 am
Just caught up, whole lot of completely empty posts from schadd, which I don't think is scum indicative but boy is it annoying.
ok is this just an homage to last game?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 18, 2017, 11:43:28 am
er, last game in this setup
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 18, 2017, 11:53:19 am
You probably shouldn't ask too many questions about Traitors if you want to stay on his good side... ;)

Traitors is a good band though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 01:33:36 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Awaclus is better.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 18, 2017, 02:47:09 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Awaclus is better.

You are not very talkative these days.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 02:51:19 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Awaclus is better.

You are not very talkative these days.

Work + sick + not a lot to talk about
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 18, 2017, 04:40:45 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Awaclus is better.

I'm not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 04:47:13 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Awaclus is better.

I'm not.
Noted.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 18, 2017, 04:55:36 pm
Well, D1 how I love thee. Not really.

Has everyone had the chance to claim yet? If so, probably don't have a bodyguard, which is unfortunate because ICs are great things to have
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 18, 2017, 04:57:33 pm
Do we have to lynch faust now?

Yes.

Vote: eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 04:58:13 pm
Well, D1 how I love thee. Not really.

Has everyone had the chance to claim yet? If so, probably don't have a bodyguard, which is unfortunate because ICs are great things to have
They are great. I think you would make a great IC. Double great.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 18, 2017, 05:00:35 pm
I am not a Bodyguard.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 18, 2017, 08:43:19 pm
TWM, why do you want to lynch awaclus?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 08:45:19 pm
TWM, why do you want to lynch awaclus?
I saw that faust was voting him. I went to look at what potential reasons faust might be voting for Awaclus and agreed with what I think the reasons are.

If you are curious, I would encourage you to go look and see if you can see what potential reasons we are voting Awaclus for and, if you agree, join us in our vote.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 18, 2017, 08:56:12 pm
TWM, why do you want to lynch awaclus?
I saw that faust was voting him. I went to look at what potential reasons faust might be voting for Awaclus and agreed with what I think the reasons are.

If you are curious, I would encourage you to go look and see if you can see what potential reasons we are voting Awaclus for and, if you agree, join us in our vote.

This is all I see
Vote: Awaclus
vote: awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 08:58:32 pm
TWM, why do you want to lynch awaclus?
I saw that faust was voting him. I went to look at what potential reasons faust might be voting for Awaclus and agreed with what I think the reasons are.

If you are curious, I would encourage you to go look and see if you can see what potential reasons we are voting Awaclus for and, if you agree, join us in our vote.

This is all I see
Vote: Awaclus
vote: awaclus
go look and see if you can see what potential reasons we are voting Awaclus

as in, go look and see what Awaclus may or may not have posted to make us vote that way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 18, 2017, 08:59:25 pm
Not a lot to add right now, but I'm not a bodyguard
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2017, 09:06:15 pm
I never actually read this setup, but it is very highly variable.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 18, 2017, 09:37:39 pm
I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 18, 2017, 09:43:33 pm
I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Probably. But in reality I am voting for awaclus for my own reasons. I just happen to think faust thought the same thing. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling mcmcsalot how I got there.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2017, 09:56:08 pm
vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 19, 2017, 05:55:36 am
Vote Count 1.2

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (4): Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot, kkrieg

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 08:07:57 am
I thought we agreed that claiming not-Bodyguard is kinda bad.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 19, 2017, 08:47:09 am
I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Probably. But in reality I am voting for awaclus for my own reasons. I just happen to think faust thought the same thing. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling mcmcsalot how I got there.

I've read and I can't figure out what these reasons are for either of you. How you think you know you have the same reasons is crazy.

I also thought we weren't claiming non bodyguard, 2.7 was just saying we probably don't have one since no one has claimed and robz took that to mean he should affirm that he is not the bodyguard. Kk then followed suit. All in all a pretty normal thing for those people to do.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 09:33:59 am
I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Probably. But in reality I am voting for awaclus for my own reasons. I just happen to think faust thought the same thing. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling mcmcsalot how I got there.

I've read and I can't figure out what these reasons are for either of you. How you think you know you have the same reasons is crazy.

I also thought we weren't claiming non bodyguard, 2.7 was just saying we probably don't have one since no one has claimed and robz took that to mean he should affirm that he is not the bodyguard. Kk then followed suit. All in all a pretty normal thing for those people to do.
Same, no idea what those reasons are. I read the initial Awaclus-vote as at least close to RVS.
Tell us the reasons!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 10:39:54 am
I also thought we weren't claiming non bodyguard, 2.7 was just saying we probably don't have one since no one has claimed and robz took that to mean he should affirm that he is not the bodyguard. Kk then followed suit. All in all a pretty normal thing for those people to do.
Not saying it is un-normal, but it is kinda bad.

TWMs feelings about Awaclus seem to come from a townie place, as does his immediate sheeping of my vote.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 10:40:48 am
Tell us the reasons!
Awaclus made a scummy joke IIRC.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 10:42:46 am
Andrew said he wasn't going to sign up for any games with me in them, but he signed up for this anyway. That means he's lying SCUM.

Vote: Andrew
Ah yes, look here. Besides being pointless RVS at a post-RVS stage, it also reads like emotional manipulation because it refers to some conflict between Andrew and Awaclus that need not have been brought up.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 10:50:59 am
I've always thought that votes with a tangible reason (like that!) are so much better than just pure RVS'ing it up. Sure, early game votes are always going to be mostly PoE and not very certain, but why not try?

I approve, although creating pointless conflict where you yourself are one of the parties doesn't jive with what I'd expect scum to want.

TWM, same reasons for you?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 11:07:46 am
I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Probably. But in reality I am voting for awaclus for my own reasons. I just happen to think faust thought the same thing. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling mcmcsalot how I got there.

I've read and I can't figure out what these reasons are for either of you. How you think you know you have the same reasons is crazy.

I also thought we weren't claiming non bodyguard, 2.7 was just saying we probably don't have one since no one has claimed and robz took that to mean he should affirm that he is not the bodyguard. Kk then followed suit. All in all a pretty normal thing for those people to do.
Same, no idea what those reasons are. I read the initial Awaclus-vote as at least close to RVS.
Tell us the reasons!
I would rather not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 11:08:32 am
TWM, same reasons for you?
I guess I will say my reasons are different than faust's now that he has stated them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 19, 2017, 11:29:30 am
Andrew said he wasn't going to sign up for any games with me in them, but he signed up for this anyway. That means he's lying SCUM.

Vote: Andrew
Ah yes, look here. Besides being pointless RVS at a post-RVS stage, it also reads like emotional manipulation because it refers to some conflict between Andrew and Awaclus that need not have been brought up.

There has been no conflict between me and Andrew, he just made a single joke about it in Fibonacci Mafia where I didn't play. So then I made a joke about that joke. And now it's funny because I have explained it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 19, 2017, 11:40:38 am
TWM, same reasons for you?
I guess I will say my reasons are different than faust's now that he has stated them.

I hate every part of this. vote: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 11:43:19 am
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 19, 2017, 11:59:40 am
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 12:14:22 pm
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.

Have you tried reading every other post backwards?  That usually helps me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 12:32:08 pm
TWM, same reasons for you?
I guess I will say my reasons are different than faust's now that he has stated them.

I hate every part of this. vote: twm
If I had two votes, my second one would be on mcmcsalot.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 12:37:06 pm
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 12:56:42 pm
Andrew said he wasn't going to sign up for any games with me in them, but he signed up for this anyway. That means he's lying SCUM.

Vote: Andrew
Ah yes, look here. Besides being pointless RVS at a post-RVS stage, it also reads like emotional manipulation because it refers to some conflict between Andrew and Awaclus that need not have been brought up.

There has been no conflict between me and Andrew, he just made a single joke about it in Fibonacci Mafia where I didn't play. So then I made a joke about that joke. And now it's funny because I have explained it.
And this is still where you want your vote to be?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 19, 2017, 01:09:13 pm
Andrew said he wasn't going to sign up for any games with me in them, but he signed up for this anyway. That means he's lying SCUM.

Vote: Andrew
Ah yes, look here. Besides being pointless RVS at a post-RVS stage, it also reads like emotional manipulation because it refers to some conflict between Andrew and Awaclus that need not have been brought up.

There has been no conflict between me and Andrew, he just made a single joke about it in Fibonacci Mafia where I didn't play. So then I made a joke about that joke. And now it's funny because I have explained it.
And this is still where you want your vote to be?

Pretty much.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 01:09:18 pm
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

Why are you being so strange?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 01:15:18 pm
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

Why are you being so strange?
that's not an answerable question
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 19, 2017, 01:17:32 pm
One of these games, weird schadd acting like weird schadd is going to be a scumtell.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 01:19:05 pm
not how tells work
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 19, 2017, 01:22:48 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 19, 2017, 02:28:40 pm
Have fairly limited access from now to the end of day 1. I will be checking in and posting when I can, but won't be able to be very active unfortunately.

That being said, still like my Eevee vote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 02:44:36 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 19, 2017, 03:06:27 pm
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 03:12:32 pm
porquois?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 19, 2017, 03:13:49 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?

I don't see what you don't get. Gkriegs thinks you finding awaclus scummy for his joke about andrew is reaching. Andrew agrees with gkriegs and is going to keep his vote on you.

I think it's an okay theory about why scum!awaclus would make that joke post but I see why gkriegs thinks your reaching. It's an early theory though so they are kinda all reaching. I also hink it's scummy that awaclus is leaving his vote on andrew after explaining that it was a single joke post, but I don't see the harm in his vote being here so I would t expect him to unvote either.

Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 19, 2017, 03:15:18 pm
porquois?

It's unlikely you think many people are scum this early in the game and I don't see why you would ask me that if you did think I was scum.

What do you think I think you are?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 03:17:15 pm
one of {not enough information, decline to answer}
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 03:20:51 pm
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.
I like how Robz sounds like the grumpy old guy of f.ds mafia. Is it time to call you Bobz already?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 03:22:26 pm
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.
I like how Robz sounds like the grumpy old guy of f.ds mafia. Is it time to call you Bobz already?
Just kidding, your boyish charm and youthful good looks is a constant envy for me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 03:48:20 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?

I don't see what you don't get. Gkriegs thinks you finding awaclus scummy for his joke about andrew is reaching. Andrew agrees with gkriegs and is going to keep his vote on you.

I think it's an okay theory about why scum!awaclus would make that joke post but I see why gkriegs thinks your reaching. It's an early theory though so they are kinda all reaching. I also hink it's scummy that awaclus is leaving his vote on andrew after explaining that it was a single joke post, but I don't see the harm in his vote being here so I would t expect him to unvote either.

Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
I don't think it's fair to blame faust for reaching when that was so early in the game and there wasn't really much anything to go on yet.

I've never really understood not sharing your full reads or reasons to vote. Does town need to be deceptive? In the big picture, scum likes people guessing and the situation murky.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 03:50:06 pm
I've never really understood not sharing your full reads or reasons to vote. Does town need to be deceptive? In the big picture, scum likes people guessing and the situation murky.

In general I agree. But small picture, there are times. And in my opinion this is one of them. I am sure I'll explain at some point if people want me to and I feel it is an appropriate time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 19, 2017, 03:51:58 pm
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.
I like how Robz sounds like the grumpy old guy of f.ds mafia. Is it time to call you Bobz already?
Just kidding, your boyish charm and youthful good looks is a constant envy for me.

*Insert heart eyes emoji*
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 03:56:30 pm
I've never really understood not sharing your full reads or reasons to vote. Does town need to be deceptive? In the big picture, scum likes people guessing and the situation murky.

In general I agree. But small picture, there are times. And in my opinion this is one of them. I am sure I'll explain at some point if people want me to and I feel it is an appropriate time.
But the small pictures end up coming together as the big picture!

I can't force you to say anything, of course. I'll just shake my finger at you and mumble "anti-town" under my breath.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 03:58:38 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?

I don't see what you don't get. Gkriegs thinks you finding awaclus scummy for his joke about andrew is reaching. Andrew agrees with gkriegs and is going to keep his vote on you.
I think I am just not really clear on the meaning of the word "reaching" in this context. Could you paraphrase?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 04:00:15 pm
I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.
I like how Robz sounds like the grumpy old guy of f.ds mafia. Is it time to call you Bobz already?
Just kidding, your boyish charm and youthful good looks is a constant envy for me.

*Insert heart eyes emoji*
It's like if Awaclus explained his reads!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 04:01:11 pm
This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?

I don't see what you don't get. Gkriegs thinks you finding awaclus scummy for his joke about andrew is reaching. Andrew agrees with gkriegs and is going to keep his vote on you.
I think I am just not really clear on the meaning of the word "reaching" in this context. Could you paraphrase?
i believe they mean it like you are trying to scumread him and your reasoning is weak
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 04:02:08 pm
I am totally reaching right now on my vote. Everyone is totally reaching right now. This shouldn't be a scumtell for early on Day 1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 04:02:45 pm
Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
What's scummy about that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 04:04:21 pm
I am totally reaching right now on my vote. Everyone is totally reaching right now. This shouldn't be a scumtell for early on Day 1.
I agree. Any reason that follows some sort of logic is way better than slinging votes completely randomly.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 04:05:26 pm
i believe they mean it like you are trying to scumread him and your reasoning is weak

Uh huh. Well in that case gkrieg is reaching! Also Andrew. Even though he's really just sheeping and has not contributed anything of value.

Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 19, 2017, 04:08:14 pm
I also hink it's scummy that awaclus is leaving his vote on andrew after explaining that it was a single joke post, but I don't see the harm in his vote being here so I would t expect him to unvote either.
I must have skipped the middle of this post. You think it's scummy, but you would not expect him to act differently? That does not seem to make a whole lot of sense.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 19, 2017, 04:08:55 pm
Andrew's ratio of saying things to things having been said about him is very low.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 19, 2017, 04:11:25 pm
Andrew is being quieter here, but that's gotta look townie on him, since he was hyper active and scum in the last two games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 19, 2017, 04:13:47 pm
I've never really understood not sharing your full reads or reasons to vote. Does town need to be deceptive? In the big picture, scum likes people guessing and the situation murky.

But scum doesn't like scum guessing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 04:17:11 pm
Andrew is being quieter here, but that's gotta look townie on him, since he was hyper active and scum in the last two games.
He is also VLA or something.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 19, 2017, 04:17:33 pm
Andrew is being quieter here, but that's gotta look townie on him, since he was hyper active and scum in the last two games.
He is also VLA or something.

Oh, that's right.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 04:22:47 pm
unvote . I realized reaching at the beginning is more of a faust thing, not really scum!faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 09:36:54 pm
unvote . I realized reaching at the beginning is more of a faust thing, not really scum!faust.
How did you come to that realization?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 09:43:53 pm
unvote . I realized reaching at the beginning is more of a faust thing, not really scum!faust.
How did you come to that realization?

I woke up this morning and realized it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 19, 2017, 09:56:51 pm
that is an unquestionable answer
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 10:04:13 pm
unvote . I realized reaching at the beginning is more of a faust thing, not really scum!faust.
How did you come to that realization?

I woke up this morning and realized it.
Didn't you realize the opposite this morning?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2017, 10:04:59 pm
Although I guess my morning isn't necessarily your morning, but I thought we were similar time zones.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2017, 10:49:26 pm
I mean it was something that just came to me.  It wasn't any one thing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 20, 2017, 12:38:36 am
gut feel vote: Awalcus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 20, 2017, 02:50:08 am
gut feel vote: Awalcus

That's a pretty crappy gut feel.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 07:12:41 am
So this game. Kinda sucks, right? We have a weekend coming up soon and then the deadline for today will be right at the end of that weekend, Monday at 5 am. I will be around then, but I assume that none of the US people will. So we really should step it up today and tomorrow.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 07:21:47 am
Post count for me to see who is responsible:

Awaclus - 9
Robz888 - 17
The_Wine_Merchant - 21
шэдд (I assume this is schadd by PoE - LaLight, please change this) - 46
Eevee - 17
gkrieg13 - 19
AndrewisFTTW - 4 (VLA)
2.71828..... - 7
faust - 28
mcmcsalot - 10
kkrieg - 7

Everyone with single-digit post count and no VLA is a disgrace.

In my mind, TWM is lurking, so seeing him high up is kinda strange. But I guess it's all relative.

Vote: e LAL
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 07:25:10 am
Some reads:

TWM is solidly town.
schadd is more townie than scummy, but eh. Anyway he's a bad lynch target for today.
Robz is somewhat towny.

Andrew is the mildest of scum reads, as much as you can get off of 4 VLA posts.
Eevee rubs me the wrong way, not sure why.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 20, 2017, 07:52:38 am
I always rub people the wrong way, that's my curse.

Vote: e Oh my god you lurk so much!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 07:58:43 am
It is my curse that somebody always immediately votes for the person I voted for.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 20, 2017, 08:01:44 am
Everyone with single-digit post count and no VLA is a disgrace.

Good thing I don't have a single-digit post count!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 08:30:55 am
gk and kk should constantly give their reads of each other.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 08:43:57 am
I mean it was something that just came to me.  It wasn't any one thing.
I was wondering if it had more to do with the conversation in thread. Which I thought odd that you wouldn't acknowledge, but sure. I cant and don't want to dispute what you are saying.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 20, 2017, 09:00:37 am
Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 20, 2017, 09:24:51 am
So this game. Kinda sucks, right? We have a weekend coming up soon and then the deadline for today will be right at the end of that weekend, Monday at 5 am. I will be around then, but I assume that none of the US people will. So we really should step it up today and tomorrow.
Town points for this btw, I had no idea the deadline was so close.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 20, 2017, 09:58:37 am
Vote Count 1.3

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): The_Wine_Merchant, kkrieg
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (3): faust, Eevee, Robz888
Not voting (1): gkrieg13

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:14:48 am
Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.
Awaclus would be just as large of a "real" wagon had you gone there instead of 2.7.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:17:32 am
Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.
Awaclus would be just as large of a "real" wagon had you gone there instead of 2.7.
What should we vote Awaclus for...? Ah right, you wouldn't tell. Well don't expect to convince a lot of people that way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:20:06 am
Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.
Awaclus would be just as large of a "real" wagon had you gone there instead of 2.7.
What should we vote Awaclus for...? Ah right, you wouldn't tell. Well don't expect to convince a lot of people that way.
I am not trying to convince anyone. I am just telling Robz that if he wanted to make a large wagon, Awaclus was an option as well and noting that he picked 2.7 instead of Awaclus.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2017, 11:20:49 am
LAL (lynch all lurkers) day 1 has never worked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:23:31 am
LAL (lynch all lurkers) day 1 has never worked.
Probably because you can't lynch all lurkers at the same time. You can only lynch one, which will be manipulated by mafia to make sure that if there is a mafia they aren't lynched.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:23:58 am
LAL (lynch all lurkers) day 1 has never worked.
Neither has not lynching them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2017, 11:25:51 am
gk and kk should constantly give their reads of each other.

This is hard to do at this point. For reasons, and because she just hasn't posted that much.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2017, 11:27:04 am
vote: e
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:27:58 am
Interesting™
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:33:05 am
Have fairly limited access from now to the end of day 1.

PS: 2.7 has a semi less active announced. That might explain this so-called lurking.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:34:00 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:36:03 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:36:56 am
Also that post is from yesterday. e has been inactive before that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:41:34 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:42:43 am
Also that post is from yesterday. e has been inactive before that.
Okay! You do what you want.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 11:46:09 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 11:51:45 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.
I didn't remember it. I wanted to look at the actual content of his posts if people are voting for him, to see if I wanted to vote for him. I am not saying people should reread him to look for that specific type of a post, but quickly rereading before voting someone rather than relying on the analysis of an unknown player (you) seems like an okish, townie sort of thing to do?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 20, 2017, 11:58:36 am
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

Also gkrieg's "realization" about faust is... interesting. Not sure I buy it. If one of them flips scum we should lynch the other. This isn't taking into consideration other information of course.

If there was a "Super Crazy V/LA" thread I would've posted in that. I'll be back in business on Sunday.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 20, 2017, 12:12:26 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

That's a pretty unfair reading of what faust said in response to TWM. Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2017, 03:45:35 pm
I actually don't think I'll be any better at reading kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 20, 2017, 04:39:20 pm
A wagon! Great. The best way to combat it will be to post a bunch, so I will do what I can.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 20, 2017, 04:45:19 pm
It is interesting that no one brought up my vote on eevee, rather just how I was lurking. No one wants to buddy eevee? He is such a buddy-able person. Super friendly to everyone
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 20, 2017, 04:48:29 pm
So the question becomes, did scum vote for me, and does eevee have some sort of relationship with scum?

Faust voting me was a fairly standard "get the game moving" post- very alignment neutral. The following votes didn't build on it at all, mostly just sheeping, which isn't terrible, but easy for scum to do
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 20, 2017, 04:53:32 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

That's a pretty unfair reading of what faust said in response to TWM. Vote: Andrew

Yeah I guess you're right.

Unvote

BUT! faust's case on e is pretty much that he's lurking, which is kinda lame, amirite?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 20, 2017, 04:58:55 pm
Wait why am I directing that to you? You're responsible for this as well!

Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.

Booooo!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 20, 2017, 05:00:27 pm
vote: e

What's up with this? Your post before this was saying lynching lurkers doesn't work.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 20, 2017, 05:00:49 pm
LAL (lynch all lurkers) day 1 has never worked.
Neither has not lynching them.

Very accurate. Scum have lurked to victory several times. The more you post the easier it is to come across scummy...or appear towny.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 06:00:01 pm
BUT! faust's case on e is pretty much that he's lurking, which is kinda lame, amirite?
Lurking is also kinda lame.

There will be more substantial voting tomorrow. Pushing this "lynch all lurkers" has yielded some interesting results.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 06:00:34 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 06:02:26 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him. gkrieg seems purposefully enigmatic, I'm not sure what's up with that, but would say it's more likely to come from town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 06:03:55 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him.
Why is it ok for mcmc to lurk, but not 2.7?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 06:05:57 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him.
Why is it ok for mcmc to lurk, but not 2.7?
It's not. Did I not just say I don't actually want to push lurker lynches? At least not now. Close to deadline may be a different story.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 06:07:09 pm
The simple truth is that any lurker is offering himself up as a fallback lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 06:11:46 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him.
Why is it ok for mcmc to lurk, but not 2.7?
It's not. Did I not just say I don't actually want to push lurker lynches? At least not now. Close to deadline may be a different story.
You say it's not. But your voting is indicating differently. I am trying to figure out why that is. You are voting for 2.7 and the only reason you have given is that he is a lurker. Therefore, I am concluding you want to push a lurker lynch. I am sorry if I can't read between the lines to find nonexistent subtext.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 20, 2017, 06:15:13 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
those are the two people i currently find most interesting. maybe other than faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 20, 2017, 06:15:41 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him.
Why is it ok for mcmc to lurk, but not 2.7?
It's not. Did I not just say I don't actually want to push lurker lynches? At least not now. Close to deadline may be a different story.
You say it's not. But your voting is indicating differently. I am trying to figure out why that is. You are voting for 2.7 and the only reason you have given is that he is a lurker. Therefore, I am concluding you want to push a lurker lynch. I am sorry if I can't read between the lines to find nonexistent subtext.
No need to get angry. My vote is on e because I don't know where else to put it yet. But I am also tired and need to sleep, so there will not be any big revelations today. Which, I believe, is pretty much what I already said.

There will be more substantial voting tomorrow.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 06:16:47 pm
I thought you meant tomorrow as in Day 2, not tomorrow as in April 21. I misread (but to be fair to me, the word tomorrow in this game has multiple meanings that aren't always completely clear).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 20, 2017, 06:18:21 pm
i usually capitalize them when i'm referring to the game time. and capitalization being interesting is one of the luxuries afforded when you don't usually do it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 20, 2017, 09:24:12 pm
I want to lynch everyone! I am lacking town reads in a major way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 20, 2017, 10:57:02 pm
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 20, 2017, 11:44:22 pm
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 21, 2017, 12:54:21 am
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg
Haha my reasoning for posting that was "I have no scum reads so I'll try to be helpful by showing I'm town by agreeing with someone else who seems towny."

Seems like that backfired.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 03:20:31 am
I thought you meant tomorrow as in Day 2, not tomorrow as in April 21. I misread (but to be fair to me, the word tomorrow in this game has multiple meanings that aren't always completely clear).
Ah, I see, sorry then, it was a bit unclear.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 04:22:49 am
I want to take a look at some people that we haven't talked about a lot.

First, Robz:
Beginning is some theory and then fluff, for quite a while. He continues to say that he's bad at reading Andrew. Okay. Some more theory stuff. Then this:
Just caught up, whole lot of completely empty posts from schadd, which I don't think is scum indicative but boy is it annoying.
The first post even resembling a read. Some more complaining that he doesn't follow. Oookay, the first read is on Andrew, who is town because he's quiet. So the one guy Robz said he cannot read is his first read? Also Andrew was VLA. First vote is e for lurking. Then Andrew vote again. What's with his strange obsession with Andrew? And that's it. A single read (which later flipped), nothing else. Not sure if this is scummy, but it is bad for town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 04:24:25 am
Robz voting e for lurking is definitely hypocritical as Robz's whole play so far has been actilurking.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 08:51:29 am
And now for mcmc.

First post:
Hey everyone! I agree I like the bodyguard claiming and being an ic over being a useless bodyguard. Reading the setup though a bodyguard claim lets mafia know 100% the setup. A bodyguard is only present in two scenarios and in one of those mafia has a power.

Though I'm not sure if it's a problem if mafia know what the setup is. I feel like this setup is more solevable than most from one or two roles so I don't think mafia can really fake claim.
Interesting that mcmc thinks in terms of fakeclaims when that was not what I had in mind as a drawback.

He fights a lot with TWM. Somehow odd, I like TWM's behaviour here. I guess that is part of the disagreeing thing.
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
I think that is the answer I expect from scum.

Then this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17163.msg689623#msg689623) does not make much sense; I have already addressed it.

Also, his last post is over 40 hours ago  >:(
Prod: mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on April 21, 2017, 08:56:37 am
Prod: mcmc

Sent.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 09:06:35 am
I find it difficult to judge mcmc's play. Last game we agreed a lot and he was scum. So how would scum!mcmc play this? Probably not the same. But I think he would try to interact with me. There hasn't been a lot of that. So town? Maybe it's just too early to tell.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 09:06:51 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 21, 2017, 09:12:48 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 21, 2017, 09:13:17 am
Vote Count 1.4

Robz888 (2): schadd, faust
AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Awaclus (2): The_Wine_Merchant, kkrieg
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, gkrieg13
kkrieg (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (1): AndrewisFTTW

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:21:26 am
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg
Haha my reasoning for posting that was "I have no scum reads so I'll try to be helpful by showing I'm town by agreeing with someone else who seems towny."

Seems like that backfired.
that seems less like a reason for your post and more like exactly the thing that you postsed
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 09:21:59 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 09:23:55 am
I want to take a look at some people that we haven't talked about a lot.

First, Robz:
Beginning is some theory and then fluff, for quite a while. He continues to say that he's bad at reading Andrew. Okay. Some more theory stuff. Then this:
Just caught up, whole lot of completely empty posts from schadd, which I don't think is scum indicative but boy is it annoying.
The first post even resembling a read. Some more complaining that he doesn't follow. Oookay, the first read is on Andrew, who is town because he's quiet. So the one guy Robz said he cannot read is his first read? Also Andrew was VLA. First vote is e for lurking. Then Andrew vote again. What's with his strange obsession with Andrew? And that's it. A single read (which later flipped), nothing else. Not sure if this is scummy, but it is bad for town.

I'm not obsessed with Andrew, but his vote for you was like the first thing that happened this game where I had some opinion. It was a bad vote, and I called it out. So that's a contribution, sorry there hasn't been more, but I didn't really follow the TWM thing and well, what else has even happened? And 'acti-lurking" is becoming something of a smear, where anyone who isn't lurking, but is also not the number 1 post leader, is somehow act-lurking.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 21, 2017, 09:28:47 am
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg
Haha my reasoning for posting that was "I have no scum reads so I'll try to be helpful by showing I'm town by agreeing with someone else who seems towny."

Seems like that backfired.

It is the trying to seem helpful without actually committing to anything that I think is scummy. I know that is something that I did in one of my first scum games and was caught because of it. That is what I see here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:29:50 am
And 'acti-lurking" is becoming something of a smear, where anyone who isn't lurking, but is also not the number 1 post leader, is somehow act-lurking.
i beg to differ. i'm the number 1 post leader and i'm actilurking
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 09:38:18 am
I want to take a look at some people that we haven't talked about a lot.

First, Robz:
Beginning is some theory and then fluff, for quite a while. He continues to say that he's bad at reading Andrew. Okay. Some more theory stuff. Then this:
Just caught up, whole lot of completely empty posts from schadd, which I don't think is scum indicative but boy is it annoying.
The first post even resembling a read. Some more complaining that he doesn't follow. Oookay, the first read is on Andrew, who is town because he's quiet. So the one guy Robz said he cannot read is his first read? Also Andrew was VLA. First vote is e for lurking. Then Andrew vote again. What's with his strange obsession with Andrew? And that's it. A single read (which later flipped), nothing else. Not sure if this is scummy, but it is bad for town.

I'm not obsessed with Andrew, but his vote for you was like the first thing that happened this game where I had some opinion. It was a bad vote, and I called it out. So that's a contribution, sorry there hasn't been more, but I didn't really follow the TWM thing and well, what else has even happened? And 'acti-lurking" is becoming something of a smear, where anyone who isn't lurking, but is also not the number 1 post leader, is somehow act-lurking.
I feel like I should put my standard response to this easily copy&pastable.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 09:41:55 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.
Why is it townie?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 09:43:56 am
I find it difficult to judge mcmc's play. Last game we agreed a lot and he was scum. So how would scum!mcmc play this? Probably not the same. But I think he would try to interact with me. There hasn't been a lot of that. So town? Maybe it's just too early to tell.

From the two games I have played with him, he is more M91 (where he was partners with me and super lurky and barely posting early) than M96 (where he was super active and basically leading the town).

So, I am finding him scummy based on that alone. But probably not worth a vote on that alone.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 10:00:52 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.
Why is it townie?

Because it mirrors my thoughts, and I am a townie.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 10:02:39 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.
Why is it townie?

Because it mirrors my thoughts, and I am a townie.
You also can rembember things you said better because you are your brother?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 10:03:32 am
More importantly maybe, do you also think TWM is scummy?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 10:38:31 am
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.
Why is it townie?

Because it mirrors my thoughts, and I am a townie.
You also can rembember things you said better because you are your brother?

I agree that faust seems like town, and E's lurking is worse than mine own, and nothing much has happened yet, and yes I remember things mcmc says better than other people.

I actually don't really have a scum read on TWM, though. That's because TWM has been scum in both of the other games I've played with him, and I actually had a strong hunch that he was scum very early on in both those games, and I'm not getting that hunch here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 21, 2017, 10:53:38 am
I find it difficult to judge mcmc's play. Last game we agreed a lot and he was scum. So how would scum!mcmc play this? Probably not the same. But I think he would try to interact with me. There hasn't been a lot of that. So town? Maybe it's just too early to tell.

From the two games I have played with him, he is more M91 (where he was partners with me and super lurky and barely posting early) than M96 (where he was super active and basically leading the town).

So, I am finding him scummy based on that alone. But probably not worth a vote on that alone.

I totally get why you feel that way. I think it's more of the fact that I played a couple scum games where town was really inactive and manipulating people as scum was really easy so when I drew a town pr where getting nightkilled was beneficial I tried my absolute hardest to be a super active townie. The results of that were leading town toward two mislynches and being caught by scum who worked around my pr for an all around loss.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 10:53:52 am
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.
I would prefer you jumped the Robz train.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 10:55:08 am
I find it difficult to judge mcmc's play. Last game we agreed a lot and he was scum. So how would scum!mcmc play this? Probably not the same. But I think he would try to interact with me. There hasn't been a lot of that. So town? Maybe it's just too early to tell.

From the two games I have played with him, he is more M91 (where he was partners with me and super lurky and barely posting early) than M96 (where he was super active and basically leading the town).

So, I am finding him scummy based on that alone. But probably not worth a vote on that alone.

I totally get why you feel that way. I think it's more of the fact that I played a couple scum games where town was really inactive and manipulating people as scum was really easy so when I drew a town pr where getting nightkilled was beneficial I tried my absolute hardest to be a super active townie. The results of that were leading town toward two mislynches and being caught by scum who worked around my pr for an all around loss.
Would you answer the questions I posed earlier?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 21, 2017, 11:18:51 am
Oh my bad, all of your questions I think relate to one post.

This feels like it is reaching from faust on Awaclus.

I agree. Keeping my vote on faust for now.
I feel like I have to ask now: What does this even mean?

I don't see what you don't get. Gkriegs thinks you finding awaclus scummy for his joke about andrew is reaching. Andrew agrees with gkriegs and is going to keep his vote on you.

I think it's an okay theory about why scum!awaclus would make that joke post but I see why gkriegs thinks your reaching. It's an early theory though so they are kinda all reaching. I also hink it's scummy that awaclus is leaving his vote on andrew after explaining that it was a single joke post, but I don't see the harm in his vote being here so I would t expect him to unvote either.

Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
First you ask me to paraphrase reaching because it's still confusing. I kinda thought this was explained but gkriegs is just saying you are making a case out of nothing, or that you are taking a small thing, awaclus' post, and making a bunch of jumps to conclusions. It was then discussed that that's understandable because it's early.

Then you ask
I also hink it's scummy that awaclus is leaving his vote on andrew after explaining that it was a single joke post, but I don't see the harm in his vote being here so I would t expect him to unvote either.
I must have skipped the middle of this post. You think it's scummy, but you would not expect him to act differently? That does not seem to make a whole lot of sense.
I am saying that I don't have a good read on awaclus. It's a bit strange he decided to leave his vote after explaining it was sort of a joke vote, but upon second thought it's not like there are wagons formed, it's not like Andrew has been super townie, there is no real reason I would expect town!awaclus to unvote in this situation so I shouldn't find it scummy that he doesn't.

And this question
Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
What's scummy about that?
Twm sheeped you and voted for awaclus and also said he thought he knew your reasons and that he was voting for the same reasons and tried to make me look bad for asking him about his reasons by saying why don't I go look for them. Me and a few others then looked for your reasons and really couldn't find any. That was when you clarified your reason which gkriegs called reaching and twm said he was voting for awaclus for different reasons but that he didn't want to share them. To me all of what I just described twm doing is scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 12:22:30 pm
Basically a lot of null/early game stuff going on as opposed to mind reading twm who thought you thought the same thing he did about awaclus and voted for him and now won't say what his reasons which he thought were your reasons are/were. He's scummy.
What's scummy about that?
Twm sheeped you and voted for awaclus and also said he thought he knew your reasons and that he was voting for the same reasons and tried to make me look bad for asking him about his reasons by saying why don't I go look for them. Me and a few others then looked for your reasons and really couldn't find any. That was when you clarified your reason which gkriegs called reaching and twm said he was voting for awaclus for different reasons but that he didn't want to share them. To me all of what I just described twm doing is scummy.
I know that all of this happened; it's in the thread. But this answer brings me no closer to understanding why you think TWM is scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 21, 2017, 01:23:59 pm
That's why I didn't answer before, I don't really have a better answer then I think what twm did is scummy. I mean it's not even crazy scummy, it's just the scummiest thing I have seen yet. Maybe it helps if I tell a narrative that fits.

I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 01:32:47 pm
I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.
Weird isn't scummy. And being cryptic, which if I am town there is probably a reason for right, has brought more attention to me. If I were scum, being cryptic does nothing for me, except bring bad attention to me. It isn't like it would be hard to make up a reason for voting Awaclus.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 01:41:00 pm
i don't think you had strong reason to believe it would give you negative attention
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 01:49:56 pm
i don't think you had strong reason to believe it would give you negative attention
Hm. True I guess.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 02:00:49 pm
my favorite thing in mafia is when u say something and it's Correct
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 02:02:47 pm
my favorite thing in mafia is when u say something and it's Correct
Capitalization! Does that signify it means something different?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 02:07:03 pm
it doesn't mean anything different than the word "correct"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 21, 2017, 03:11:56 pm
Weird isn't scummy. And being cryptic, which if I am town there is probably a reason for right, has brought more attention to me. If I were scum, being cryptic does nothing for me, except bring bad attention to me. It isn't like it would be hard to make up a reason for voting Awaclus.

Wierd kinda is scummy. I don't really get the reasons town has to be cryptic. And like schadd said I don't think you expected to get any attention. I think unless I asked you why you voted you were going to get no attention which is why I asked you in the first place. I can't figure out why you've clammed up and been defensive about the situation and it's more of an alignment indication then I've got anywhere else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 03:16:07 pm
Weird isn't scummy. And being cryptic, which if I am town there is probably a reason for right, has brought more attention to me. If I were scum, being cryptic does nothing for me, except bring bad attention to me. It isn't like it would be hard to make up a reason for voting Awaclus.

Wierd kinda is scummy. I don't really get the reasons town has to be cryptic. And like schadd said I don't think you expected to get any attention. I think unless I asked you why you voted you were going to get no attention which is why I asked you in the first place. I can't figure out why you've clammed up and been defensive about the situation and it's more of an alignment indication then I've got anywhere else.
OK. But I don't think I have clammed up or been defensive. I have answered questions and provided my reasoning. Except for the one part that I don't want to explain.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 03:34:11 pm
People who don't to explain stuff are usually town PRs, in my experience.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 21, 2017, 03:59:26 pm
People who don't to explain stuff are usually town PRs, in my experience.

Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 03:59:56 pm
semi-vla, very busy wekeend. i'll read and get some posts in during the day tomorrow and sunday
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 04:04:19 pm
People who don't to explain stuff are usually town PRs, in my experience.
Yeah. I don't know what to say to that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 04:11:09 pm
I may be warming up to an Andrew lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 04:13:27 pm
I may be warming up to an Andrew lynch.

He did straight-up misrepresent your comment about E.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 04:18:52 pm
A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 21, 2017, 04:29:56 pm
I may be warming up to an Andrew lynch.

He did straight-up misrepresent your comment about E.

Kinda sorta maybe? Not on purpose though.

A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.

Like who/what?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 21, 2017, 04:46:46 pm
Like who/what?
You, Robz, mcmc. And that's just in the last 10 posts.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 21, 2017, 04:47:52 pm
Like who/what?
You, Robz, mcmc. And that's just in the last 10 posts.

So what should I be looking for, to find scum, then? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've had good cause to ask myself this very question in recent games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 21, 2017, 04:56:06 pm
A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 21, 2017, 04:58:09 pm
A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote

... Where's gkrieg when you need him?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 05:21:53 pm
I may be warming up to an Andrew lynch.
Nah. That is actually one spot I don't like. That and 2.7.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2017, 05:49:07 pm
Ok, I'm around for a bit.  Time to do a little reading.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2017, 05:57:07 pm
only one of them is scum though

I've been thinking about this more and if you pick any two people in this game, the chances that one of them is scum is pretty high.

the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells


That is very anti-town of you.

Also you never responded to this schadd.

Note: TWM seems a little bit more abrasive than we have seen in his scum games.  I think he is likely town here.

I think TWM is assuming a lot thinking he knows exactly why faust is voting the way he is
Probably. But in reality I am voting for awaclus for my own reasons. I just happen to think faust thought the same thing. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling mcmcsalot how I got there.

I've read and I can't figure out what these reasons are for either of you. How you think you know you have the same reasons is crazy.

I also thought we weren't claiming non bodyguard, 2.7 was just saying we probably don't have one since no one has claimed and robz took that to mean he should affirm that he is not the bodyguard. Kk then followed suit. All in all a pretty normal thing for those people to do.

On the other hand, mcmc seems more buddying like his scum games.

vote: mcmcsalot

I cannot follow any of the conversation here. I don't see why people are voting Awaclus, and I don't see what TWM was getting at.

This seems like a strange post from scum!Robz.  Seems more likely to come from town.

Ok, gotta go.  I stopped reading at #189 (for personal notes.)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 06:36:53 pm
only one of them is scum though
I've been thinking about this more and if you pick any two people in this game, the chances that one of them is scum is pretty high.
are you, uh, calling me an unimpressive town player?



the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells
That is very anti-town of you.
sorry, i didn't understand what you were calling anti-town. that i've been retiring tells i have that don't work?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 06:38:33 pm
also mcmc buddied like {an analogy} last game
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 08:56:20 pm
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 08:56:57 pm
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?
forgot the actual reason for starting this post: twm is towny
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 08:58:46 pm
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?
boom. pow. blam. whap. [bone crunching sounds]
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:05:10 pm
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?
boom. pow. blam. whap. [bone crunching sounds]
unrelated, but i always feel so smart for using words like accompanying or movement, literally only because they have so many letters. i may be dumb.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:15:54 pm

i don't think you're dumb but you might not speak english as a first language.

i am pretty sure we're not buddying each other, right now. yes?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:23:22 pm
that seems like a somewhat odd question, i havent even addressed you at all!

you did say you don't think i'm dumb, there might be something there. but i didn't get the feeling you said it to influence my behavior in the game, i think you are just a nice guy. (oh, and it isn't, and thanks!)

now if at some later point in the game you said "what the hell man,  i thought we were friends, i even called you not dumb, and now you are voting for me!? what is this?", then that would change
things.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:24:37 pm
i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 09:25:00 pm
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?
forgot the actual reason for starting this post: twm is towny
Hells yeah!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:25:04 pm
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 09:26:30 pm
Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:27:26 pm
i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 21, 2017, 09:28:15 pm
i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
Hehe. That should replace lockjaw.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:29:55 pm
Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
Interested in his flip in this game, what if not being cryptic is his scumtell (aka kryptonite)?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:32:36 pm
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.
not sure i follow


Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
i am kind of trying to be Concise and Sensical. also i haven't said all that much of substance which is where things start to get misty


i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
you wouldn't like mafiascum, like, at all


i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
Hehe. That should replace lockjaw.
there is a queue of things that i'm also not putting there


Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
Interested in his flip in this game, what if not being cryptic is his scumtell (aka kryptonite)?
robz suggested the opposite thing is also maybe a scumtell like seven seconds ago
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 21, 2017, 09:48:23 pm
just seems weird you'd bring it up. my two leading causes of daytime death are buddying and hedginess, someone who wouldn't mind seeing me lynched might want to drop those buzzwords around me hoping someone else starts painting me scummy for them. kind of like trying to get two people to fight while you slowly walk away to watch from afar.

(going to sleep now!)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 21, 2017, 09:51:56 pm
oic, you're townreading me for it.


i also don't think those are the things that get you lynched
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 22, 2017, 12:45:05 am
only one of them is scum though

I've been thinking about this more and if you pick any two people in this game, the chances that one of them is scum is pretty high.
Well I know I'm not scum so you must be? :)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 22, 2017, 12:46:24 am
Like who/what?
You, Robz, mcmc. And that's just in the last 10 posts.

So what should I be looking for, to find scum, then? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've had good cause to ask myself this very question in recent games.
I feel like this is a great question.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 06:34:27 am
Like who/what?
You, Robz, mcmc. And that's just in the last 10 posts.

So what should I be looking for, to find scum, then? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've had good cause to ask myself this very question in recent games.
I feel like this is a great question.
And the answer is simple but doesn't help you much probably: Try to see if the player has a consistent town narrative for their actions, and furthermore, try to see whether their posts make sense from a scum perspective. There are two main mistakes to make in scumhunting:

1. Anti-town != scummy.
Scum will usually shy away from openly anit-town behaviour, especially in the early game. Robz talking about TWM being a PR is therefore not a scumtell.

2. Weird != scummy.
Scum (usually) wants town to understand their posts because they want to present themselves in a certain way. Acting strange and unrelatable is usually not a sign of scumminess.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 09:09:15 am
A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote
It's definitely one of the better ones.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 10:17:16 am
robz is towny
Why?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 22, 2017, 10:23:41 am
Like who/what?
You, Robz, mcmc. And that's just in the last 10 posts.

So what should I be looking for, to find scum, then? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've had good cause to ask myself this very question in recent games.
I feel like this is a great question.
And the answer is simple but doesn't help you much probably: Try to see if the player has a consistent town narrative for their actions, and furthermore, try to see whether their posts make sense from a scum perspective. There are two main mistakes to make in scumhunting:

1. Anti-town != scummy.
Scum will usually shy away from openly anit-town behaviour, especially in the early game. Robz talking about TWM being a PR is therefore not a scumtell.

2. Weird != scummy.
Scum (usually) wants town to understand their posts because they want to present themselves in a certain way. Acting strange and unrelatable is usually not a sign of scumminess.

This is true of course, but then if you establish this as a norm too strongly, it gives scum license to behave wacky and anti-town and get away with it... which is what scum wants to do anyway, since it's easier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 22, 2017, 11:51:09 am
i also think the array of stuff that's demonstrably anti-town is very small
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 12:00:24 pm
This is true of course, but then if you establish this as a norm too strongly, it gives scum license to behave wacky and anti-town and get away with it... which is what scum wants to do anyway, since it's easier.
That's right, but I don't think f.ds meta is anywhere near that level.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 22, 2017, 12:10:35 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:38:56 pm
This is true of course, but then if you establish this as a norm too strongly, it gives scum license to behave wacky and anti-town and get away with it... which is what scum wants to do anyway, since it's easier.
That's right, but I don't think f.ds meta is anywhere near that level.

I do think some people can get away with it better than others.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 22, 2017, 12:46:56 pm
So this game. Kinda sucks, right? We have a weekend coming up soon and then the deadline for today will be right at the end of that weekend, Monday at 5 am. I will be around then, but I assume that none of the US people will. So we really should step it up today and tomorrow.
Well this didn't happen.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:49:37 pm
Andrew's ratio of saying things to things having been said about him is very low.

Is this more likely to happen to scum or to town?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:50:44 pm
Post count for me to see who is responsible:

Awaclus - 9
Robz888 - 17
The_Wine_Merchant - 21
шэдд (I assume this is schadd by PoE - LaLight, please change this) - 46
Eevee - 17
gkrieg13 - 19
AndrewisFTTW - 4 (VLA)
2.71828..... - 7
faust - 28
mcmcsalot - 10
kkrieg - 7

Everyone with single-digit post count and no VLA is a disgrace.

In my mind, TWM is lurking, so seeing him high up is kinda strange. But I guess it's all relative.

Vote: e LAL

Why did you pick e here over kkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:52:08 pm
Vote: E for lurking, and also, would probably be good to have a real wagon at this stage of Day 1.

This is a little bit questionable from Robz.  He would want a partner to get a good wagon on a bad reason going D1.  Just something to think about later.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:52:50 pm
So this game. Kinda sucks, right? We have a weekend coming up soon and then the deadline for today will be right at the end of that weekend, Monday at 5 am. I will be around then, but I assume that none of the US people will. So we really should step it up today and tomorrow.
Town points for this btw, I had no idea the deadline was so close.

I don't think this is right.  I think deadline stuff is the easiest thing to get towncred for, when it is by far the easiest thing to fake.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:54:16 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.

Technically that would've taken more than 5 seconds.  And I think town is more likely to just vote for little reason without actually reading compared to scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:58:30 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

Also gkrieg's "realization" about faust is... interesting. Not sure I buy it. If one of them flips scum we should lynch the other. This isn't taking into consideration other information of course.

If there was a "Super Crazy V/LA" thread I would've posted in that. I'll be back in business on Sunday.

This seems like just a strange post.  Like why are you choosing to question these things?  Not rereading people D1 is a pretty normal thing to do.  Usually you want to reread things for interactions, so just going off of gut and cases D1 is normal.

And questioning my gut feels seems very strange.  And making such a definitive statement as we should lynch the other seems very strong D1 for someone who is saying we need to reread people already.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 12:59:34 pm
It is interesting that no one brought up my vote on eevee, rather just how I was lurking. No one wants to buddy eevee? He is such a buddy-able person. Super friendly to everyone

Buddying only works if the person townreads you as a result of your buddying.  As it stands, eevee doesn't really let niceness affect his reads.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:00:17 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

That's a pretty unfair reading of what faust said in response to TWM. Vote: Andrew

Yeah I guess you're right.

Unvote

BUT! faust's case on e is pretty much that he's lurking, which is kinda lame, amirite?

And then he is convinced by Robz?  That is kinda scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:00:39 pm
vote: e

What's up with this? Your post before this was saying lynching lurkers doesn't work.

True, but wagons do work.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:01:04 pm
LAL (lynch all lurkers) day 1 has never worked.
Neither has not lynching them.

Very accurate. Scum have lurked to victory several times. The more you post the easier it is to come across scummy...or appear towny.

Depends on the content, and on the person.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:02:37 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
Not really? The only thing I remember about mcmc is that we disagreed about something. That is usually a town tell for him.
Why is it ok for mcmc to lurk, but not 2.7?
It's not. Did I not just say I don't actually want to push lurker lynches? At least not now. Close to deadline may be a different story.
You say it's not. But your voting is indicating differently. I am trying to figure out why that is. You are voting for 2.7 and the only reason you have given is that he is a lurker. Therefore, I am concluding you want to push a lurker lynch. I am sorry if I can't read between the lines to find nonexistent subtext.

I still think this is townie from TWM.  It is definitely different from the scum games he has played.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:02:56 pm
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
those are the two people i currently find most interesting. maybe other than faust

Why those three?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:03:49 pm
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg

What about that post was scummy?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:05:11 pm
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
I think that is the answer I expect from scum.


What answer would you expect from town?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:06:19 pm
Vote: Robz

Interesting to me that faust is bouncing his vote off of major wagons.  Which, with people sheeping him a lot, maybe this is a good thing.  See who gets sheeped on to, and see who doesn't get any other traction.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:08:20 pm
And 'acti-lurking" is becoming something of a smear, where anyone who isn't lurking, but is also not the number 1 post leader, is somehow act-lurking.
i beg to differ. i'm the number 1 post leader and i'm actilurking

This is true.  I feel like I don't remember anything significant from schadd, but just fluff and things that he seems to think he will be able to get good reads from.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:11:46 pm
That's why I didn't answer before, I don't really have a better answer then I think what twm did is scummy. I mean it's not even crazy scummy, it's just the scummiest thing I have seen yet. Maybe it helps if I tell a narrative that fits.

I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.

I think I get your reasoning here.  And I think they only apply if people think TWM is generally townie and they like to sheep him.  Like this would be a good case on faust, but not a very good case on TWM.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 01:14:41 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

Also gkrieg's "realization" about faust is... interesting. Not sure I buy it. If one of them flips scum we should lynch the other. This isn't taking into consideration other information of course.

If there was a "Super Crazy V/LA" thread I would've posted in that. I'll be back in business on Sunday.

This seems like just a strange post.  Like why are you choosing to question these things?  Not rereading people D1 is a pretty normal thing to do.  Usually you want to reread things for interactions, so just going off of gut and cases D1 is normal.

And questioning my gut feels seems very strange.  And making such a definitive statement as we should lynch the other seems very strong D1 for someone who is saying we need to reread people already.

Nope. I only made that comment because faust mentioned he didn't feel the need to reread, which I took to imply that he would otherwise reread but feels strongly enough to vote early without doing so. As Robz pointed out, faust was really referring to rereading for a potential V/LA podt from each but he didn't feel the need to, and I simply misread.

Anyway, what do you think so this scumslip from e?

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 01:15:38 pm
I meant "vote e" not "vote early". Gotta watch out for those autocorrects.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 01:16:56 pm
And also "e" instead of "each". See where technology has gotten us?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:17:17 pm
only one of them is scum though
I've been thinking about this more and if you pick any two people in this game, the chances that one of them is scum is pretty high.
are you, uh, calling me an unimpressive town player?


Uh, I'm just saying that I don't think this really says anything.  It seems like you have talked a lot, but not too much about the game, so I was thinking this is something that looks like it is a read, but doesn't really say anything.


the thing about those is you have to think about whether it makes sense to be alignment indicative and whether there might be natural reasons i might decide not to do it. one might not be led to believe so but i've been trying to thin my arsenal of tells
That is very anti-town of you.
sorry, i didn't understand what you were calling anti-town. that i've been retiring tells i have that don't work?

I actually misread that.  I thought you were saying that you were trying to be less readable, which is anti-town.  Not that you were talking about other peoples' tells.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 22, 2017, 01:17:33 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 01:18:56 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

Who do you think has indicated they do?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:20:41 pm
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.

It just seems like a strange thing from schadd.  Still not sure if any of this means anything.  If I were a vig, I would consider shooting him (checked the setup and there isn't a vig possible).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:22:06 pm
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.
not sure i follow


Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
i am kind of trying to be Concise and Sensical. also i haven't said all that much of substance which is where things start to get misty


i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
you wouldn't like mafiascum, like, at all


i think you are just a nice guy.
you said this a few times l@st g@me
you called me not dumb, what am i to say in response, call you ugly mcuglyface? no no no
Hehe. That should replace lockjaw.
there is a queue of things that i'm also not putting there


Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
Interested in his flip in this game, what if not being cryptic is his scumtell (aka kryptonite)?
robz suggested the opposite thing is also maybe a scumtell like seven seconds ago

So if you are aware of a lot of these things, why do you still do them?  Like you say that you are anti-town with the amount of words/content you have, but you keep doing the same things.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:23:53 pm
also it is telling that the people that voted for him couldn't take the 5 seconds to go and see what he had actually posted and see if he was actually lurking and find that little tidbit.
If someone is VLA, they should post in the appropriate thread. If they fail to do this, that's on them and not on us.
Sure. But I would think that players would actually go and and assess whether someone was lurking and not completely rely on your vote count. It wasn't like it was hard or onerous for me to do so.
Sure I could have reread e, but why? Nothing suggested that I would find such a post. Maybe you remembered it and that is why you checked, which is fine.

Can we lynch faust now? Not caring enough about possibly mislynching e to actually reread at all.

Also gkrieg's "realization" about faust is... interesting. Not sure I buy it. If one of them flips scum we should lynch the other. This isn't taking into consideration other information of course.

If there was a "Super Crazy V/LA" thread I would've posted in that. I'll be back in business on Sunday.

This seems like just a strange post.  Like why are you choosing to question these things?  Not rereading people D1 is a pretty normal thing to do.  Usually you want to reread things for interactions, so just going off of gut and cases D1 is normal.

And questioning my gut feels seems very strange.  And making such a definitive statement as we should lynch the other seems very strong D1 for someone who is saying we need to reread people already.

Nope. I only made that comment because faust mentioned he didn't feel the need to reread, which I took to imply that he would otherwise reread but feels strongly enough to vote early without doing so. As Robz pointed out, faust was really referring to rereading for a potential V/LA podt from each but he didn't feel the need to, and I simply misread.

Anyway, what do you think so this scumslip from e?

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote

Doesn't look like a scum slip to me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:25:46 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

It's cute that you still think this is the only way to read you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 22, 2017, 01:31:17 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

It's cute that you still think this is the only way to read you.

It is the only way to read anyone. Thinking otherwise is believing in pseudoscience.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 22, 2017, 01:33:02 pm
I think more people should be voting kkrieg.

Everyone seems to be playing into their meta pretty well. The only person who has done anything scummy is kkrieg, but that could also be just being new. I could possibly get behind a Robz lynch just because.

I think TWM is town, not so sure about everyone else
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 01:33:53 pm
I think more people should be voting kkrieg.

Everyone seems to be playing into their meta pretty well. The only person who has done anything scummy is kkrieg, but that could also be just being new. I could possibly get behind a Robz lynch just because.

I think TWM is town, not so sure about everyone else

What scummy things has she done?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 22, 2017, 01:36:35 pm
Unvote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 22, 2017, 02:37:55 pm
I think more people should be voting kkrieg.

Everyone seems to be playing into their meta pretty well. The only person who has done anything scummy is kkrieg, but that could also be just being new. I could possibly get behind a Robz lynch just because.

I think TWM is town, not so sure about everyone else

What scummy things has she done?
Ditto question ^^^^.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 03:08:26 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

It's cute that you still think this is the only way to read you.

It is the only way to read anyone. Thinking otherwise is believing in pseudoscience.

Oh God he's right! Why even bother? Everything we say is highly questionable at best!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 03:10:32 pm
Hey Robz remember when town!gkrieg made a big deal about something that was totally not a scumslip? But now he thinks this one isn't suspect at all.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 03:16:07 pm
Hey Robz remember when town!gkrieg made a big deal about something that was totally not a scumslip? But now he thinks this one isn't suspect at all.

Well because this one is obviously sarcasm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 03:33:34 pm
Hey Robz remember when town!gkrieg made a big deal about something that was totally not a scumslip? But now he thinks this one isn't suspect at all.

Well because this one is obviously sarcasm

Really? Hold on.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 03:35:23 pm
Upon further inspection, I think you are correct.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 22, 2017, 04:19:29 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

Who do you think has indicated they do?
It would appear, based off his vote not moving, that he thinks you have.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 05:08:25 pm
Post count for me to see who is responsible:

Awaclus - 9
Robz888 - 17
The_Wine_Merchant - 21
шэдд (I assume this is schadd by PoE - LaLight, please change this) - 46
Eevee - 17
gkrieg13 - 19
AndrewisFTTW - 4 (VLA)
2.71828..... - 7
faust - 28
mcmcsalot - 10
kkrieg - 7

Everyone with single-digit post count and no VLA is a disgrace.

In my mind, TWM is lurking, so seeing him high up is kinda strange. But I guess it's all relative.

Vote: e LAL

Why did you pick e here over kkrieg?
I thought more people would follow on e, with kkrieg being a newbie and all.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2017, 05:39:19 pm
Post count for me to see who is responsible:

Awaclus - 9
Robz888 - 17
The_Wine_Merchant - 21
шэдд (I assume this is schadd by PoE - LaLight, please change this) - 46
Eevee - 17
gkrieg13 - 19
AndrewisFTTW - 4 (VLA)
2.71828..... - 7
faust - 28
mcmcsalot - 10
kkrieg - 7

Everyone with single-digit post count and no VLA is a disgrace.

In my mind, TWM is lurking, so seeing him high up is kinda strange. But I guess it's all relative.

Vote: e LAL

Why did you pick e here over kkrieg?
I thought more people would follow on e, with kkrieg being a newbie and all.

But wouldn't the reactions to kkrieg be more telling then?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 22, 2017, 05:53:16 pm
I don't think a reaction for a lurker vote would be all that telling, and I didn't think there'd be a major wagon on her. e was more interesting in that regard, not only for his reaction, but also for how people treated that wagon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 06:04:25 pm
Awaclus why should I not be voting for you?

I haven't, in any way, shape or form, indicated that I have any information that only scum would have or a scum perspective.

Who do you think has indicated they do?
It would appear, based off his vote not moving, that he thinks you have.

That's cool. I'm curious where he got that from, and just what one would look for if they were using this strategy in general.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 22, 2017, 07:29:54 pm
robz is towny
Why?
i think the pr-comment is much more likely to come from town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 22, 2017, 09:04:14 pm
i always find people i haven't played with before hard to read, applies to kkrieg very much here. although i guess if they've talked about the game at all, she's had a pretty good mentor.

still, if the case is just not saying a lot of insightful stuff, that's hard enough day 1 when you know everyone and all the game mechanics, let alone for someone who is still learning the ropes. i'm willing to give some leeway (only extends for day 1!)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 22, 2017, 09:31:14 pm
i always find people i haven't played with before hard to read, applies to kkrieg very much here. although i guess if they've talked about the game at all, she's had a pretty good mentor.

still, if the case is just not saying a lot of insightful stuff, that's hard enough day 1 when you know everyone and all the game mechanics, let alone for someone who is still learning the ropes. i'm willing to give some leeway (only extends for day 1!)
gkrieg and I have talked surprisingly little about mafia.

I'm fine with no leeway. If people really think I'm scum I have no problems being lynched (that sounds weird - to clarify, I do mind being lynched because I'm town, but do not expect less suspicion because I'm new)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 22, 2017, 10:05:43 pm
Alright let's get down to business people. Who is cool with a Robz lynch? I'm also getting the scum feels from Eevee. Pretty null on everyone else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 22, 2017, 10:28:43 pm
I'm sorry it's my birthday tomorrow and I'm celebrating, I'll catch up Sunday evening at the latest. So I should around pre-deadline and deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 22, 2017, 11:59:49 pm
Reread the whole thread. mcmc had the most posts that I think could be mafia indicative. At this point at might just be pseudoscience, but its all I got at this point. Awaclus came in second, followed by schadd. Robz and gkrieg were the most conflicted with a heavy mix of town and mafia posts.

vote: mcmcsalot

(sorry to vote you on your birthday. Hope it is a good one!)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 12:42:16 am
Sorry, busy day. Can't promise to be around at deadline but I will find time tomorrow to read and try to be useful as we near deadline
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 04:20:26 am
I'm sorry it's my birthday tomorrow and I'm celebrating, I'll catch up Sunday evening at the latest. So I should around pre-deadline and deadline.
Happy birthday!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 04:23:51 am
robz is towny
Why?
i think the pr-comment is much more likely to come from town.
Ah yes. I see where that's coming from. But when Robz posted that, he was already under suspicion. I think any-alignment!Robz is very aware of the reactions he causes with such a post, and I believe it's a bit more likely to come from scum!Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 04:38:53 am
I've been meaning to reread e for a while, but somehow it slipped my mind. Wel, here goes:

Stuff in the beginining is setup-related. There's an early Eevee vote.

A wagon! Great. The best way to combat it will be to post a bunch, so I will do what I can.
I don't feel good about this post. Town thinks that probably, but why post it? Oversharing isn't townie, but scum often thinks it is.

So the question becomes, did scum vote for me, and does eevee have some sort of relationship with scum?

Faust voting me was a fairly standard "get the game moving" post- very alignment neutral. The following votes didn't build on it at all, mostly just sheeping, which isn't terrible, but easy for scum to do
e asks this question, but there's never a follow-up on it. If town!e thinks that, then why not investigate further?

Then we have the kkrieg vote, which I agree with to some extent.

A lot of people in this game seem to have very strange ideas about what kind of behaviour one should expect from scum.

So that's why I go after townies as lynch targets. That being said, while I know I probably won't get much movement on kkrieg, I really like my vote
I will note that it is convenient for scum to leave their vote on someone they know will not get lynched and then potentially switch late in the day with the excuse of "had to get a lynch through!" (or stay off the lynch wagon if they know it'll be a townie). Not sure if scum!e would be so direct about it.

Not a lot more. I'm conflicted; there is scummy stuff, but I feel scummy about a number of people here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 23, 2017, 05:17:34 am
Vote Count 1.HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MCMCSALOT!

Robz888 (3): schadd, faust, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Awaclus (1): kkrieg
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (1): Eevee
kkrieg (1): 2,71828.....
mcmcsalot (2): gkrieg13, The_Wine_Merchant
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT. This is in 24 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 06:12:55 am
My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 06:20:53 am
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
I think that is the answer I expect from scum.


What answer would you expect from town?
Null probably, especially at this stage in the game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 23, 2017, 09:03:22 am
Oh ma less than 24 hours.

Totally totally no idea who to vote for. Weekend deadlines are bad for town!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 09:07:48 am
My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
Probably not. I am not even convinced myself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:19:39 am
Hey Robz remember when town!gkrieg made a big deal about something that was totally not a scumslip? But now he thinks this one isn't suspect at all.

Well because this one is obviously sarcasm

Really? Hold on.

Yep, not a scumslip.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:21:51 am
Well, I do not have scum reads. I have a big townread on Eevee, his post about worrying that people will see him as hedgy or buddying and suspect him for it seemed like the kind of self-aware thing you self-censor if you're scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:22:30 am
I could vote for E or kkrieg for being sort of hard to read and on the lower activity side.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:23:27 am
Hm, I'm surprised that Andrew is voting for me, given that he was also trying to rally me to think gkrieg was a hypocrite over some perceived scumslip (I think that's what that was about?)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 11:05:19 am
Hm, I'm surprised that Andrew is voting for me, given that he was also trying to rally me to think gkrieg was a hypocrite over some perceived scumslip (I think that's what that was about?)

Not rallying, just wanted to know what you thought about it. But alas, I missed e's sarcasm.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:09:34 am
{eevee, faust}
{kkrieg, twm}
{andrew, awaclus, e}
{robz}
{gkrieg, mcmc}
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 23, 2017, 11:22:38 am
{eevee, faust}
{kkrieg, twm}
{andrew, awaclus, e}
{robz}
{gkrieg, mcmc}
Hey, we've talked about cryptography!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:28:03 am
Any interest in mcmc or gkrieg?
those are the two people i currently find most interesting. maybe other than faust

Why those three?
should be rather evident


only one of them is scum though

this is something that looks like it is a read, but doesn't really say anything.
it kind of definitely does say something


If I were a vig, I would consider shooting him (checked the setup and there isn't a vig possible).
this is the kind of thing i would not like to say, in a traitor environment. why would one want to vig me but not lynch me?


Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
i am kind of trying to be Concise and Sensical. also i haven't said all that much of substance which is where things start to get misty
So if you are aware of a lot of these things, why do you still do them?  Like you say that you are anti-town with the amount of words/content you have, but you keep doing the same things.
So if you are aware of a lot of these things, why do you still do them?  Like you say that you are anti-town with the amount of words/content you have, but you keep doing the same things.
i trimmed my quote to the thing i would think this is referring to. i haven't said all that much of substance this game because i haven't uh encountered much of the kind of things i like to talk about substantially. i also don't remember saying that i'm being anti-town


My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
i townread him hard last game for being super invested and conversational, he looks neither here
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:29:52 am
{eevee, faust}
{kkrieg, twm}
{andrew, awaclus, e}
{robz}
{gkrieg, mcmc}
Hey, we've talked about cryptography!
town


scum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 11:30:43 am
My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
i townread him hard last game for being super invested and conversational, he looks neither here
To be fair, last game he was actively trying to get mafia to NK him to make good use of his PR. (Even if that strategy backfired). But I still like my vote on him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 01:31:00 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 01:34:48 pm
I could vote for E or kkrieg for being sort of hard to read and on the lower activity side.

I am very easy to read, which is why TWM said that I am town. He knows how to read me. I am very bad at finding scum, I just enjoy the process. Which is why I posted that brutally honest post concerning how I usually (at least early on) almost always end up on a town wagon.

And yeah, I probably do overshare thoughts a bit, but when you are restricted on how much you can post due to your current situation, I feel like I need to get out what I an thinking and do what I can
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 01:36:21 pm
Hm, I'm surprised that Andrew is voting for me, given that he was also trying to rally me to think gkrieg was a hypocrite over some perceived scumslip (I think that's what that was about?)

Not rallying, just wanted to know what you thought about it. But alas, I missed e's sarcasm.

If you miss sarcasm I can always provide more, we just have to lynch Robz first because he believes all jokes (especially the sarcastic ones) come from scum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 01:37:22 pm
That being said, I am not sure what sarcasm you are referring to. I want trying to be sarcastic with my posts
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 01:39:44 pm
Can I just remind everyone that Awaclus is still voting Andrew because Andrew said he wouldn't sign up for anymore games with Awaclus?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 23, 2017, 02:29:25 pm
Can I just remind everyone that Awaclus is still voting Andrew because Andrew said he wouldn't sign up for anymore games with Awaclus?

You can.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 02:33:41 pm
Vote: Robz


This is an L-2 vote on me.

I guess I'm not the worst lynch ever, if that's what's going to happen. I am a Vanilla Townie.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 02:34:42 pm
Hm, I'm surprised that Andrew is voting for me, given that he was also trying to rally me to think gkrieg was a hypocrite over some perceived scumslip (I think that's what that was about?)

Not rallying, just wanted to know what you thought about it. But alas, I missed e's sarcasm.

If you miss sarcasm I can always provide more, we just have to lynch Robz first because he believes all jokes (especially the sarcastic ones) come from scum

I don't really think that anymore. I find unclear joking more annoying, than anything else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 02:35:03 pm
That being said, I am not sure what sarcasm you are referring to. I want trying to be sarcastic with my posts

The post where you said you try to lynch townies.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 03:31:45 pm
Is anyone else willing to vote Robz?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 23, 2017, 03:58:42 pm
I don't have any strong scum reads, but I don't think Robz is.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 04:19:32 pm
Is anyone else willing to vote Robz?
Not at the moment.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 04:23:07 pm
Would you guys rather no lynch on D1? Because that would suck and we're running out of time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 04:26:30 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 04:34:47 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?

I remember town!Robz fighting harder against his lynch before, but this is a little different. He's not at L-1 and it's D1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 04:36:22 pm
Would you guys rather no lynch on D1? Because that would suck and we're running out of time.

I am a firm believer that no lynching D1 doesn't just suck, it is literally a catastrophe for town. I would have to do research to actually back myself up with data, but I would be willing to bet town winning after a D1 no lynch is rare
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 04:39:22 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?

I remember town!Robz fighting harder against his lynch before, but this is a little different. He's not at L-1 and it's D1.

To be fair, he will be the go-to lynch if nothing changes soon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 04:43:02 pm
Of the remaining people with >1 vote I would go Andrew over mcmc over Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 04:43:47 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?

I remember town!Robz fighting harder against his lynch before, but this is a little different. He's not at L-1 and it's D1.

To be fair, he will be the go-to lynch if nothing changes soon.

Faust moving his vote changes that. Speaking of which, I like
Vote: faust
Better than Robz. I have convinced myself that I believe Robz at least for today
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 04:47:34 pm
Of the remaining people with >1 vote I would go Andrew over mcmc over Robz.

I think I'm at mcmc over Andrew over Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 04:48:33 pm
Awaclus, mcmc or schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 04:51:04 pm
Someone give me a reason to not vote Awaclus, other than him saying that he doesn't anything to scumslip--as he has failed to show that anyone else has done that thus far this game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 23, 2017, 04:56:11 pm
I'd be ok with Awaclus or Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 04:58:10 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?

I remember town!Robz fighting harder against his lynch before, but this is a little different. He's not at L-1 and it's D1.

To be fair, he will be the go-to lynch if nothing changes soon.

Faust moving his vote changes that. Speaking of which, I like
Vote: faust
Better than Robz. I have convinced myself that I believe Robz at least for today

Why faust? I don't like this at all, actually.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 04:58:47 pm
I would go for E if the votes were there. If not I'll stick with Andrew. Awaclus is also fine. This does not feel like scum mcmc to me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 05:10:28 pm
This feels very similar to mcmc from M91. I don't like the 2.7 wagon, now or earlier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 05:20:15 pm
Vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 05:40:50 pm
vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 05:44:36 pm
That's why I didn't answer before, I don't really have a better answer then I think what twm did is scummy. I mean it's not even crazy scummy, it's just the scummiest thing I have seen yet. Maybe it helps if I tell a narrative that fits.

I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.

I think I get your reasoning here.  And I think they only apply if people think TWM is generally townie and they like to sheep him.  Like this would be a good case on faust, but not a very good case on TWM.
I Can understand that, I do think people think twm is towny though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 05:48:37 pm
That's why I didn't answer before, I don't really have a better answer then I think what twm did is scummy. I mean it's not even crazy scummy, it's just the scummiest thing I have seen yet. Maybe it helps if I tell a narrative that fits.

I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.

I think I get your reasoning here.  And I think they only apply if people think TWM is generally townie and they like to sheep him.  Like this would be a good case on faust, but not a very good case on TWM.
I Can understand that, I do think people think twm is towny though.
They do now. Previously, when this all was happening, they didn't, it was up in the air. I think I have done a decent job of making sure town people have had opportunities to accurately read me despite some somewhat unknown situations earlier. You are the exception, which is partially why I am suspicious of you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 06:31:50 pm
OMGUS is not a very good way to find your reads.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 23, 2017, 06:32:48 pm
I will be around for the deadline, but will go to sleep for now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 06:46:15 pm
OMGUS is not a very good way to find your reads.
PARTIALLY
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 23, 2017, 07:08:29 pm
OMGUS is not a very good way to find your reads.

Good thing I didn't vote you for OMGUS reasons. I voted you because I don't think town!faust votes me in this situation
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 23, 2017, 07:20:40 pm
Awaclus would be a total "guess" lynch for me, he has played just like I'd expect him to play day 1 either alignment. I think he is generally hard to townread with certainty, but conversely also hard to pinpoint as scum. Especially this early, this is just totally what I think both scum and town versions of Awaclus would look like.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 07:40:49 pm
Awaclus would be a total "guess" lynch for me, he has played just like I'd expect him to play day 1 either alignment. I think he is generally hard to townread with certainty, but conversely also hard to pinpoint as scum. Especially this early, this is just totally what I think both scum and town versions of Awaclus would look like.

Empty post. I'd lynch Eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 07:43:07 pm
non-empty posts are scum-indicative for him
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 07:43:57 pm
Awaclus would be a total "guess" lynch for me, he has played just like I'd expect him to play day 1 either alignment. I think he is generally hard to townread with certainty, but conversely also hard to pinpoint as scum. Especially this early, this is just totally what I think both scum and town versions of Awaclus would look like.

Empty post. I'd lynch Eevee.

I think the post stakes out a fairly reasonable position on Awaclus.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:03:47 pm
gkrieg, you prefer town right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:15:47 pm
gkrieg, you prefer town right?

I think my preference would be town>mafia>IC>Traitor>SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:16:21 pm
Would you guys rather no lynch on D1? Because that would suck and we're running out of time.

This is what I would expect from scum!Andrew.

vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:17:52 pm
gkrieg, you prefer town right?

I think my preference would be town>mafia>IC>Traitor>SK.
why town>IC?


Would you guys rather no lynch on D1? Because that would suck and we're running out of time.

This is what I would expect from scum!Andrew.

vote: Andrew
elabor8
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:18:01 pm
My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?

I mean he just seems like he is...  I think I put all of the quotes about him that I wanted to in that reread post.

This one here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17163.msg690012#msg690012)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:20:14 pm
gkrieg, you prefer town right?

I think my preference would be town>mafia>IC>Traitor>SK.
why town>IC?


Would you guys rather no lynch on D1? Because that would suck and we're running out of time.

This is what I would expect from scum!Andrew.

vote: Andrew
elabor8

Well I lost the last two games where I was IC, so not too fond of that one right now.

Uh, scum!Andrew likes to push mislynches.

Never mind, just read through M97, and I was completely misremembering it...

unvote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:21:39 pm
Someone give me a reason to not vote Awaclus, other than him saying that he doesn't anything to scumslip--as he has failed to show that anyone else has done that thus far this game.

I think Awaclus is easier to read the longer he goes in a game.  I don't really like lynching him D1 because of that, so there isn't a real reason other than my read on him gets better with time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:22:54 pm
Never mind, just read through M97, and I was completely misremembering it...
in 2 minutes?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:23:05 pm
This feels exactly like the last time Robz was mislynched D1. I don't like it.

Vote: e

Maybe?

I remember town!Robz fighting harder against his lynch before, but this is a little different. He's not at L-1 and it's D1.

To be fair, he will be the go-to lynch if nothing changes soon.

Faust moving his vote changes that. Speaking of which, I like
Vote: faust
Better than Robz. I have convinced myself that I believe Robz at least for today

Why faust? I don't like this at all, actually.

I remember e doing this before though.  The last game where I was sure he was scum, he was town, and got lynched for having these weird switches like this.  I can't think of the right word right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 08:23:10 pm
Fine. vote: mcmc

I dont see Andrew as mafia here. Source: played scum with him my last game and watched the other game he was mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:23:42 pm
Never mind, just read through M97, and I was completely misremembering it...
in 2 minutes?

Well I read the end of the day1, then remembered that he wasn't on the wagon, and was against the wagon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:25:14 pm
ah
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:25:24 pm
That's why I didn't answer before, I don't really have a better answer then I think what twm did is scummy. I mean it's not even crazy scummy, it's just the scummiest thing I have seen yet. Maybe it helps if I tell a narrative that fits.

I feel like scum!twm want to add his vote to yours when he sees you vote but doesn't want to be the one "pushing" the wagon so he just sheeps and when I ask him about his reasons he gives me this its the same reasons as Faust, go see for yourself. It's just wierd for a towny to say that especially given the fact that it wasn't obviouse what your reasons were for multiple people. Furthermore once you give your reason and gkriegs says it's reaching twm doesn't back you up, he becomes more cryptic about what his reasons are. Just feels like scum hoping you or other townies will take the lead in going for an awaclus lynch.

I think I get your reasoning here.  And I think they only apply if people think TWM is generally townie and they like to sheep him.  Like this would be a good case on faust, but not a very good case on TWM.
I Can understand that, I do think people think twm is towny though.
They do now. Previously, when this all was happening, they didn't, it was up in the air. I think I have done a decent job of making sure town people have had opportunities to accurately read me despite some somewhat unknown situations earlier. You are the exception, which is partially why I am suspicious of you.

This is a sort of scummy post.  I mean, yeah, every alignment wants to make sure people think they are town, but the wording "accurately read me" just sends off the scum bells in my head.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:25:54 pm
ah

ah
/ä/
exclamation
used to express a range of emotions including surprise, pleasure, sympathy, and realization.
"ah, there you are!"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:26:30 pm
i see
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:33:22 pm
vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 08:37:34 pm
It looks like there are a lot of people voting for mcmcsalot, but there are only 3 if you count my vote.

vote: Mcmcsalot.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on April 23, 2017, 08:38:40 pm
Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 08:40:14 pm
Keep in mind it's his birthday, I don't know if he'll be around. Are we really comfortable lynching him without a claim? I mean, I would rather lynch him than get lynched myself, but objectively, I don't know if that's the smartest thing,
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 08:47:17 pm
he said he'd catch up tonight, and he posted three hours ago. it's not like we're just gonna slam down on it, too
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 09:18:23 pm
I am caught up, I am also a vanilla townie. I also don't have much to add. I am much less confident of my reads after failing super hard last game and think most people are playing as I expect them to be playing. I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus. Also I am sleepy and slightly inebriated.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:20:49 pm
you def. didn't fail super hard last game
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 09:24:47 pm
you def. didn't fail super hard last game

I misread joseph/ashersky/dylan/eevee. I had three townies on my wagon day one and allowed scum to quietly sheep me to the win.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:26:58 pm
4 is not a lot of misreads. scum quietly sheeped you on andrew, pps loudly sheeped you on andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:28:26 pm
if you are confident that you would misread people here i'd rather you do it than not bother
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 09:35:35 pm
Well shit, now this feels mislynchy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:36:38 pm
it does, but mcmc is a good scum player
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:37:18 pm
So what are we going to do? Didn't want to lynch mcmc before, don't want to lynch him now either.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:38:01 pm
I am sort of inclined to go after one of the mcmc pile-on ers. But maybe avoiding mcmc's wagon was the safest thing for scum to do.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:38:23 pm

So what are we going to do? Didn't want to lynch mcmc before, don't want to lynch him now either.
que sera sera
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:39:57 pm
if you don't want to lynch mcmc you could try changing our minds?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:49:54 pm
This just feels like genuinely busy mcmc to me, him actually being what he says makes a lot of sense. The problem is I don't have a great alternative candidate...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:50:30 pm
And I don't really know who else is viable at this point.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:50:44 pm
I mean, who is here right now?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 09:57:21 pm
This just feels like genuinely busy mcmc to me, him actually being what he says makes a lot of sense. The problem is I don't have a great alternative candidate...
in 477 he said he was caught up; not busy, rather sleepy/inebriated. and the investment he bled when he was town in M96 can still be present even if he's busy.


I mean, who is here right now?
me!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 09:58:24 pm
I mean if all we can do is lynch mcmc or no one, I will vote for mcmc befoere I go to sleep in about 2 hrs
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 09:59:58 pm
I will have the time to keep up during the next couple weeks though!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 10:04:12 pm
grargh, but like, what can you do in the next couple weeks that you can't do now/couldn't have done in the last week?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 10:06:36 pm
happy birthday, also.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 23, 2017, 10:14:54 pm
I mean if all we can do is lynch mcmc or no one, I will vote for mcmc befoere I go to sleep in about 2 hrs
I agree with this.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 10:30:12 pm
I am here, ish. I like mcmcsalot more than Andrew and 2.7. But I am not as enamored as I was. Awaclus was a mcmcsalot pile oner.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 10:37:29 pm
Yeah I'd rather lynch Awaclus than mcmc.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 10:51:39 pm
vote: awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 23, 2017, 10:53:52 pm
request vote count
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 10:57:42 pm
vote: awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 10:58:15 pm
Vote: awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:09:06 pm
i mean, someone that makes a point of obscuring his reasoning shouldn't be the d1 lynch because of his shoddy reasoning. what do we have on him?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 23, 2017, 11:10:22 pm
TWM was already voting Awaclus so he's at L-1 I think.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:18:28 pm
o wow, yes. kkrieg, andrew, twm, mcmc, robz.


i can hammer him later, i guess. there is a thing that makes me think he's traitor and so it would be cool if he flipped traitor
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 11:22:10 pm
TWM was already voting Awaclus so he's at L-1 I think.

Was not. Was voting mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 23, 2017, 11:23:30 pm
hey gkrieg I know you're online what do you think about awaclus?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 11:23:55 pm
I do not like that wagon. Some of the scummiest scummies on there.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 11:24:46 pm
It's enough votes that we could probably switch to a better lynch. Like mcmc or Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 23, 2017, 11:25:30 pm
But of course I will hammer before bed, seeing as I go to sleep about 3 hours before deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 11:26:10 pm
Look I would lynch Andrew instead, but I'm only going to be up for 40 more minutes. If the votes are there, I'll do it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 23, 2017, 11:27:43 pm
how about you talk about why you are voting awaclus pleeeeez
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 23, 2017, 11:30:16 pm
how about you talk about why you are voting awaclus pleeeeez

He's a person who isn't a townread.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 23, 2017, 11:41:01 pm
I do not like that wagon. Some of the scummiest scummies on there.
Pshawwwwwwww
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 24, 2017, 12:22:20 am
HahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahHhHhHhaahahahaha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 24, 2017, 12:24:04 am
Ian so totally town that you all should see it and if you don't then you are a dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 24, 2017, 12:25:26 am
TWM is at mcmcs party too I guess  :P
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 12:26:15 am
fucking
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 12:27:08 am
was ehunt actually town, the one time?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 12:29:03 am
ok he was. for some reason i remember him actually being scum, but whatev.


in theory this is rather easy to fake
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 24, 2017, 12:31:55 am
TWM is at mcmcs party too I guess  :P
Partyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 12:32:47 am
i hope u (continue to) enjoy urself
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 24, 2017, 12:33:21 am
I think that I will be awake at deadline but I ahbe no idea whatbshapr I'll be in when I wake up. So you should probably lynch without me.

Kapeesh?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 24, 2017, 12:33:34 am
Bed time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 12:34:50 am
capisce
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 24, 2017, 01:00:55 am
Vote Count 1.6
 
Awaclus (5): kkrieg, AndrewisFTTW, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, faust
mcmcsalot (3): schadd, gkrieg13, Awaclus
faust (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT. This is in 4 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 24, 2017, 01:12:01 am
Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 24, 2017, 01:20:16 am
Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1

Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 24, 2017, 01:25:25 am
Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1

What is scummy about the mcmc wagon?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 24, 2017, 02:16:08 am
Bleh. It is bedtime and we need a lynch

Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 24, 2017, 02:16:37 am
Nevermind

Vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 02:17:32 am

i'm worried that we all just fall asleep. i kind of don't think mcmc or anything will happen within 3 hours


vote: awaclus


ppe ok
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 24, 2017, 02:20:29 am
Was that the lynch? I guess I am some minutes too late.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 24, 2017, 02:21:35 am
yea


whomst would you have pushed?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on April 24, 2017, 02:52:52 am
Twilight until i get to work which is in ~40 mins
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 24, 2017, 03:28:59 am
yea


whomst would you have pushed?
Of Awaclus/mcmc? Man, honestly I don't know.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 24, 2017, 03:30:24 am
But I have to say I find this a bit hypocritical:

Keep in mind it's his birthday, I don't know if he'll be around. Are we really comfortable lynching him without a claim? I mean, I would rather lynch him than get lynched myself, but objectively, I don't know if that's the smartest thing,
Vote: awaclus

Probably would have gone for mcmc after the VT claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 24, 2017, 03:35:21 am
Vote Count 1.final
 
Awaclus (6): kkrieg, AndrewisFTTW, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, 2,71828.....
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, faust
mcmcsalot (3): schadd, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch. Thread Locked.

Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on April 24, 2017, 03:42:38 am
Казалось бы, ничто не предвещает беды. Все счастливо добывали золото, предвкушая, как потратят несметные богатства. Но в какой-то момент демон жадности овладел душами людей. Они начали подозрительно оглядываться на своих соседей: вдруг те пытаются загрести себе больше? И одного крика "Аваклус прячет золото под рубашкой!" хватило, чтобы люди подбежали к бедному парню и начали трясти его. Сердце бедного Аваклуса не выдержало...

Everything went fine. People were mining gold imagining precious things they will buy with it. But in one moment the demon of greed started living in people's minds... They started looking suspiciously at their neighbours to see if they try to hide some gold from them. The peace was broken at the moment one voice loudly screamed: "Awaclus is hiding extra gold under his shirt! All the village ran into Awaclus and started shaking him to look if he's cheating. Nothing was there. But the heart of the poor guy stopped.

Awaclus was lynched! He was Аваклус, the Vanilla Townie!

Night 1 starts now and ends Wednesday, April 26th at 3.30 am FT. Deadline for night actions is in 47 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 26, 2017, 03:34:30 am
Ночь была очень тревожной. Каждый спал в своем доме, опасаясь за те запасы золота, что успел собрать днем. Внезапно тишину разорвал пронзительный крик: "ПОЖАР!" Люди выскочили из своих домов и увидели, что один из домов объят пламенем. Все начали таскать ведра с водой, чтобы попытаться потушить огонь. Уже начало светать, когда дом догорел. Под развалинами нашли бедного Макмаксалота и... огромные запасы украденного золота!

The night was very troubling. Each villager was sleeping in their house having nightmares about someone coming and stealing their gold. Suddenly the silence was broken by the loud scream: "FIRE!" Everyone ran out of their huts and saw one of the houses burning. Everyone started carrying buckets of water trying to save the man inside. Fire stopped only when the sun was already rising. Under the ruined house villagers have found dead mcmcsalot and... the huge stack of stolen gold!

mcmcsalot was killed! He was Макмаксалот, the mafia goon.

День 2 начался!

Vote count 2.0

Not voting (9):
Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, schadd, Eevee, gkrieg13, AndrewisFTTW, 2,71828....., faust, kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 04:57:44 am
Huh.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 05:01:02 am
So we have a nice SK.

Well it does not make a lot of sense for a SK to go after a claimed VT one N1 I think. That only really works if they were afraid of mcmc. So that's a good place to start looking.

On the other hand, mcmc had a partner. That guy is also worth looking for.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 05:03:49 am
Also there clearly was a blocked kill. That can be any of SK/1-shot BP/JK/Traitor uwittingly blocking their partner, so I'm not sure if a claim helps us here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 05:25:32 am
So rereading mcmc. I'm positive that we can figure this out.

Okay, so he is pushing pretty hard for TWM.

This is interesting interaction:
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
schadd, why did you ask mcmc?

There is more TWM tunnelling. This starts to look pretty bad for him.

I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus.
Is mcmc's partner in here? Arguably yes. But it's a big list, so eh.

Okay, I feel like there isn't really a lot to take away in terms of partner reads, but it feels like TWM is the only one with a motive to kill mcmc.

Another interesting data point would be the mcmc wagon.

This is the mcmc wagon history.

gkrieg, TWM
[these two have been voting mcmc for a while through D1.

I'd be ok with Awaclus or Andrew
kkrieg does not mention mcmc at all here. Scummy.

I would go for E if the votes were there. If not I'll stick with Andrew. Awaclus is also fine. This does not feel like scum mcmc to me.
Also not too good, but it feels unlikely that both scum would claim VT on D1.

Andrew & TWM move towards Awaclus.

gkrieg votes for Andrew, and then unvotes, thus removing his vote from mcmc in a non-obvious way. That's quite crafty if intentional.

schadd votes mcmc. Town points here. Then gkrieg switches back (ok, I suppose the above was not intentioal), Then Awaclus.

If I'm seeing correctly, this is the mcmc wagon at peak:

TWM, schadd, gkrieg, Awaclus

Robz continues to push off of mcmc. Ironically, TWM takes the lead on destroying the mcmc wagon. His is the deciding vote. The others on mcmc stay there.

So schadd and gkrieg definitely look townie (or, I guess, non-SK-y). Mild scum read on Robz, stronger on kkrieg and Andrew.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 05:26:06 am
I think I'm happy with a vote: TWM for now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 07:46:55 am
ayyyy


vote: robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 07:48:36 am
Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 07:52:18 am
gkrieg looks sk here (a few un-townie things but he wouldn't push a partner d1) but that kill seems too obvious


This is interesting interaction:
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
schadd, why did you ask mcmc?
tone read. if you look back at how i read him it might make sense that i would just want him to talk about generic game stuff
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 07:53:16 am
Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 07:57:24 am
Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha

Use your words, schadd!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 08:10:53 am
Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 08:11:17 am
was i bussing again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 08:13:47 am
Bleh. It is bedtime and we need a lynch

Vote: mcmc
Nevermind

Vote: Awaclus
lol lol lol lol townie
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 08:15:04 am
gkrieg may have gotten recruited


if not, can the traitor tell us whomst they roleblocked in twilight after we lynch them?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 08:22:15 am
twm as SK makes sense but i also think he might just be groupscum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:00:42 am
I think I'm happy with a vote: TWM for now.
Huh.

I was going to ask if this makes me pretty townie. I guess not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:01:54 am
Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha
schadd gets it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 26, 2017, 09:03:11 am
Also there clearly was a blocked kill. That can be any of SK/1-shot BP/JK/Traitor uwittingly blocking their partner, so I'm not sure if a claim helps us here.

There is also a possible commuter that went away last night. But I think 1-shot BP/JK makes the most sense
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 26, 2017, 09:03:27 am
But yeah. Great night
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:03:32 am
I just need to stick to my guns. I was the primary pusher of the mcmcsalot lynch Day 1. faust's analysis seems to have completely missed that and Robx couldn't be bothered to go look for himself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:05:39 am
mcmcsalot fooled me by looking nonchalant when he claimed and I got nervous. I am most suspicious of Robz and faust. Especially when faust told me that voting for mcmcsalot because of OMGUS was bad when that was obviously not the only reason I was voting for him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:06:04 am
I just need to stick to my guns. I was the primary pusher of the mcmcsalot lynch Day 1. faust's analysis seems to have completely missed that and Robx couldn't be bothered to go look for himself.
i don't think u know what the accusation on u is
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:07:52 am
I just need to stick to my guns. I was the primary pusher of the mcmcsalot lynch Day 1. faust's analysis seems to have completely missed that and Robx couldn't be bothered to go look for himself.
i don't think u know what the accusation on u is
Apparently not. Obviously not mcmc's partner.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:08:27 am
Which is the main thing we should be looking for given the flip from last night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:10:12 am
uh, no


scum nightkill => guess at scum motivation for kill


SK nightkill => _____


fill in tha blank
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:12:00 am
and mcmc red doesn't clear you as the partner anyway (neither of you finished on each other) (heh)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:17:33 am
I just need to stick to my guns. I was the primary pusher of the mcmcsalot lynch Day 1. faust's analysis seems to have completely missed that and Robx couldn't be bothered to go look for himself.
I saw that, but it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:18:50 am
Or it does matter maybe. But given the extent of mutual tunneling I would not even be surprised if you were mcmc's partner.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:19:47 am
mcmcsalot fooled me by looking nonchalant when he claimed and I got nervous. I am most suspicious of Robz and faust. Especially when faust told me that voting for mcmcsalot because of OMGUS was bad when that was obviously not the only reason I was voting for him.
I had explicitly asked you to provide a reason before that, and you did not deliver anything, so I fail to see how it was anything but OMGUS.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:20:35 am
See here:

My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
Probably not. I am not even convinced myself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:20:43 am
I just need to stick to my guns. I was the primary pusher of the mcmcsalot lynch Day 1. faust's analysis seems to have completely missed that and Robx couldn't be bothered to go look for himself.
I saw that, but it doesn't matter.
These are my emotions right now in regard to you:

 >:(  :o  ???  ::)  :P  :-\  :'(
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:21:19 am
See here:

My two biggest townreads are on mcmc. Can you convince me that he's scum?
Probably not. I am not even convinced myself.
Oh wow. You can find one quote. Good job. I can find one too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:23:12 am
no, vote: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:24:48 am
This feels very similar to mcmc from M91. I don't like the 2.7 wagon, now or earlier.

Quote 444. Which is 5 posts before your OMGUS post. Main reason I was, at that time, voting mcmc, was because he felt similar to M91 (where I was partners with him) and different from the other game M96 or whatever it was where he was super townie.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:25:20 am
At least one scum (maybe two if SK thinks they can get on this) in faust, Robz and schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:26:42 am
I am not going to have time to dig into this prior to the weekend. So let's try to not accidentally lynch me here at least until then. Cause I have thoughts to say that I think (OK. Maybe I am just being optimistic. Let's say that I hope) you guys will want to go back and read after I am lynched.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:28:40 am
At least one scum (maybe two if SK thinks they can get on this) in faust, Robz and schadd.

OMGUS is not a very good way to find your reads.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:29:11 am
At least one scum (maybe two if SK thinks they can get on this) in faust, Robz and schadd.

OMGUS is not a very good way to find your reads.
oh my fuck.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:29:29 am
Worked once this game so far. Why not again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:30:09 am
why did you vote with him at eod?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:30:51 am
Worked once this game so far. Why not again?
We should lynch all players whose name contains an m. It worked once this game so far. Why not again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:32:52 am
ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:35:06 am
Worked once this game so far. Why not again?
We should lynch all players whose name contains an m. It worked once this game so far. Why not again?
cause that is totally the same thing that I am saying here.

vote: faust for being deliberately combative and caustic here. For deliberately ignoring important parts of my play and narrative when making a case against me. He has to be aggressive and desperate to get a win here and this is what he is doing.

There you happy?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:39:41 am
Worked once this game so far. Why not again?
We should lynch all players whose name contains an m. It worked once this game so far. Why not again?
cause that is totally the same thing that I am saying here.
That is indeed my point.

vote: faust for being deliberately combative and caustic here. For deliberately ignoring important parts of my play and narrative when making a case against me. He has to be aggressive and desperate to get a win here and this is what he is doing.

Which parts am I ignoring? That you pushed mcmc? I'm not ignoring that. Is there anything else?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:45:14 am
Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 09:45:54 am
Oops. That should say I'll go away, not that you should. Obviously I can't tell you what to do. And that wouldn't be nice.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 09:49:38 am
Oops. That should say I'll go away, not that you should. Obviously I can't tell you what to do. And that wouldn't be nice.
Well it's very much possible that I should too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:51:54 am
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"


you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 09:55:50 am
and if you hadn't made the switcheroo it would have likely been a d1 correct lynch. it seems as though e would have voted mcmc and faust would have kind of been forced into it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:07:48 am
gkrieg looks sk here (a few un-townie things but he wouldn't push a partner d1) but that kill seems too obvious


This is interesting interaction:
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
schadd, why did you ask mcmc?
tone read. if you look back at how i read him it might make sense that i would just want him to talk about generic game stuff

Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:09:00 am
gkrieg may have gotten recruited


if not, can the traitor tell us whomst they roleblocked in twilight after we lynch them?

I don't get why you are so sure I'm not town. Like what did I do?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 10:13:23 am
well you might keep doing it, we'll see. i'm not considering you as much as it probably sounds like
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:13:35 am
Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.

Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 10:14:08 am
Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Yeah; that is why the mcmc kill makes very little sense to me. If the SK thinks mcmc is scum, they want to keep him alive and push a lynch. If they think he's town, then they would much rather kill a PR than a claimed VT.

It speaks to newb!SK, and the fact that TWM thought this flip would make him look townie adds to that narrative.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 10:14:55 am
Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
Gah. You know that that is the kind of thing you should try to avoid, right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 10:17:24 am
Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.

Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
babe u knew it was last her bedtime & u shouldn't have asked difficult questions
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 10:17:38 am
past
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:28:29 am
Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
Gah. You know that that is the kind of thing you should try to avoid, right?

Yes. I'm pretty sure we shouldn't be in games together...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:51:17 am
I'm actually not entirely sure she checked the forum again, but she had ample opportunity to switch her vote and she didn't and the reasoning wasn't very good.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 26, 2017, 10:55:33 am
Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 11:09:59 am
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 11:10:20 am
and if you hadn't made the switcheroo it would have likely been a d1 correct lynch. it seems as though e would have voted mcmc and faust would have kind of been forced into it
Yes. Yes. Yes. I am a bad town player and I should feel bad.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 11:11:07 am
Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Yeah; that is why the mcmc kill makes very little sense to me. If the SK thinks mcmc is scum, they want to keep him alive and push a lynch. If they think he's town, then they would much rather kill a PR than a claimed VT.

It speaks to newb!SK, and the fact that TWM thought this flip would make him look townie adds to that narrative.
Wait, you think I am the SK?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 11:12:46 am
Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.

Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie.
I will. I am just not going to have an opportunity to go back and spend an adequate amount of time to put that together until the weekend. I have a feeling I will get derphammered before I have a chance and that once I do someone (faust) who is better with words will manipulate it and tear it to shreds. But I will give it a try.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 26, 2017, 11:17:34 am
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
well it also so happens that leaving a bus through the emergency exit is your scum thing
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 11:21:57 am
If you guys think TWM is the SK why are you referring to his interactions with mcmc so much?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 11:22:26 am
Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Yeah; that is why the mcmc kill makes very little sense to me. If the SK thinks mcmc is scum, they want to keep him alive and push a lynch. If they think he's town, then they would much rather kill a PR than a claimed VT.

It speaks to newb!SK, and the fact that TWM thought this flip would make him look townie adds to that narrative.
Wait, you think I am the SK?
Erm, yes. That's what I've been saying all along.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 11:23:20 am
If you guys think TWM is the SK why are you referring to his interactions with mcmc so much?
I think that. I think him being mcmc's partner is also an option, but significantly less likely. His interactions with mcmc are relevant because they show he had motive to kill mcmc.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 11:23:54 am
If you guys think TWM is the SK why are you referring to his interactions with mcmc so much?
I think that. I think him being mcmc's partner is also an option, but significantly less likely. His interactions with mcmc are relevant because they show he had motive to kill mcmc.

Oh please.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 11:24:18 am
If you guys think TWM is the SK why are you referring to his interactions with mcmc so much?
I think that. I think him being mcmc's partner is also an option, but significantly less likely. His interactions with mcmc are relevant because they show he had motive to kill mcmc.

Oh please.
?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 11:27:13 am
You observed that TWM pushed mcmc's wagon and then "destroyed" it, as you said, and then he decided to kill him as SK?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 11:37:32 am
Oh, we are back on!

Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1
I remember being surprised kkrieg could come up with that many that good reasons for the switch (and wondering why hadn't she said those things before being asked - kind of felt like she made the vote, and then only thought of the reasons after being pressed for it).

Just phone access now, but mcmc being the almost-lynch of yesterday should be helpful in determining the second mafia at least. Like, probably not e based on his voting, so my suspicion on yesterday was wrong on that at least (again, probably).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 11:38:38 am
Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Yeah; that is why the mcmc kill makes very little sense to me. If the SK thinks mcmc is scum, they want to keep him alive and push a lynch. If they think he's town, then they would much rather kill a PR than a claimed VT.

It speaks to newb!SK, and the fact that TWM thought this flip would make him look townie adds to that narrative.

I think this is a valid point, although then we could also look to kkrieg as a contender. Really, they are both contenders for both, in my view.

TWM's righteous indignation is reading a little townie to me though.

I must say I'm pretty suspicious of kkrieg at the moment. I gave her a newbie pass on Day 1, but now I'm getting a bad feeling.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 11:39:00 am
You observed that TWM pushed mcmc's wagon and then "destroyed" it, as you said, and then he decided to kill him as SK?
The point is that mcmc scumread TWM.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 11:39:07 am
TWM repeatedly saying how good faust is in forming arguments feels panicky to me, like feels to me like he is anticipating not having good enough arguments and having to "resort to" discrediting the person, not the argument that's bringing the suspicion on him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 11:39:11 am
Vote: Kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 11:39:31 am
TWM repeatedly saying how good faust is in forming arguments feels panicky to me, like feels to me like he is anticipating not having good enough arguments and having to "resort to" discrediting the person, not the argument that's bringing the suspicion on him.

Definitely, but that's sort of townie, isn't it?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 11:39:36 am
I think someone who was suspected by mcmc is far far more likely to shoot him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 11:42:32 am
I think someone who was suspected by mcmc is far far more likely to shoot him.

I really don't think so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 11:43:52 am
TWM repeatedly saying how good faust is in forming arguments feels panicky to me, like feels to me like he is anticipating not having good enough arguments and having to "resort to" discrediting the person, not the argument that's bringing the suspicion on him.

Definitely, but that's sort of townie, isn't it?
Is it? I could see it going both ways, but I feel TWM is being more panicky than I would expect, which makes me feel there are other circumstances in play I'm not aware of (such as him being scum and quite unluckily going from narrowly escaping his partners lynch to losing said partner and finding himself in hot water).

Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 11:46:24 am
I think someone who was suspected by mcmc is far far more likely to shoot him.

I really don't think so.
Why? Mcmc is what I'd call an influencial townie - definitely someone who is willing to push for their opinions, and often is pretty stubborn about them too. Scum teams usually think "who can we get lynched tomorrow?" and "what risks might there be for getting one of those lynches too", and to me being heavily suspected by mcmc would definitely constitute a risk that I would want to eliminate.

Actually, I guess the better question is, how do you think they'd decide who to shoot if not like that? Why else would they have shot a claimed VT?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 11:53:29 am
TWM repeatedly saying how good faust is in forming arguments feels panicky to me, like feels to me like he is anticipating not having good enough arguments and having to "resort to" discrediting the person, not the argument that's bringing the suspicion on him.

Definitely, but that's sort of townie, isn't it?
Is it? I could see it going both ways, but I feel TWM is being more panicky than I would expect, which makes me feel there are other circumstances in play I'm not aware of (such as him being scum and quite unluckily going from narrowly escaping his partners lynch to losing said partner and finding himself in hot water).

Well I've never actually seen town TWM. I've seen very calculated, cautious scum TWM.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 12:01:39 pm
Uh, I don't think SK wants to kill scum N1 here. If I were SK I would want to let mcmc live and try to lynch him again today. You get towncred for lynching scum, so you want them alive for that. At least the first night.
Yeah; that is why the mcmc kill makes very little sense to me. If the SK thinks mcmc is scum, they want to keep him alive and push a lynch. If they think he's town, then they would much rather kill a PR than a claimed VT.

It speaks to newb!SK, and the fact that TWM thought this flip would make him look townie adds to that narrative.
Wait, you think I am the SK?
Erm, yes. That's what I've been saying all along.
Well, fuck me sideways. I had no idea.

That completely changes my response. Basically I can say it in one sentence.

There is no way I would have played the way I did if I were SK. I would have stayed in the background, jumped quietly onto a wagon like 2.7's or Andrew's and brought zero to little attention to myself.

Imagine if I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone through. I would be the primary, number 1, NK target for mafia and there would have ended my game. No that would have been too risky.

The SK is someone who stayed in the background and made little to zero waves. Certainly not me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 12:01:54 pm
Well I guess that was more than one sentence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 01:08:23 pm
There is no way I would have played the way I did if I were SK. I would have stayed in the background, jumped quietly onto a wagon like 2.7's or Andrew's and brought zero to little attention to myself.

Imagine if I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone through. I would be the primary, number 1, NK target for mafia and there would have ended my game. No that would have been too risky.

The SK is someone who stayed in the background and made little to zero waves. Certainly not me.

This doesn't acquit you as much as you think. If you were SK, and you had stayed on mcmc, and the lynch had gone through, you would have been a prime NK target... only if mcmc was mafia. But of course, that's not something you knew at the time you voted him, so you could have very well done it as SK and then been genuinely surprised (and relieved you weren't nightkilled) after mcmc's flip.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 01:10:01 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 01:16:11 pm
There is no way I would have played the way I did if I were SK. I would have stayed in the background, jumped quietly onto a wagon like 2.7's or Andrew's and brought zero to little attention to myself.

Imagine if I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone through. I would be the primary, number 1, NK target for mafia and there would have ended my game. No that would have been too risky.

The SK is someone who stayed in the background and made little to zero waves. Certainly not me.

This doesn't acquit you as much as you think. If you were SK, and you had stayed on mcmc, and the lynch had gone through, you would have been a prime NK target... only if mcmc was mafia. But of course, that's not something you knew at the time you voted him, so you could have very well done it as SK and then been genuinely surprised (and relieved you weren't nightkilled) after mcmc's flip.
No. I get that. What I am saying is that it a risk I don't have to take. Or even if mcmc flips town. I don't want to appear in any way, shape or form to be a town leader and a good NK option.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 01:16:55 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
You are putting logic onto me that I never had. Not sure if you are doing confirmation bias here or scum reaching.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 01:24:14 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
You are putting logic onto me that I never had. Not sure if you are doing confirmation bias here or scum reaching.

You said this "imagine if I was SK and I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone thru... I would have been the number 1 target for mafia." Because this would be a bad move for the SK, you therefore are not the SK.

This is really only a fear, though, if you know mcmc will flip scum, which isn't something you would have known at the time, unless you were his partner.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 01:37:57 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
You are putting logic onto me that I never had. Not sure if you are doing confirmation bias here or scum reaching.

You said this "imagine if I was SK and I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone thru... I would have been the number 1 target for mafia." Because this would be a bad move for the SK, you therefore are not the SK.

This is really only a fear, though, if you know mcmc will flip scum, which isn't something you would have known at the time, unless you were his partner.
Except I am saying it now, when it is known that mcmc is scum. I am using speculative ideas to speculate about what I might have done as SK.

And you aren't addressing my actual point. And that is that SK would want to stay in the background and not risk being a prime NK target, regardless of whether or not mafia was flipped.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 26, 2017, 02:53:37 pm
Like every scum, the SK has to play to their town meta or they will be lynched. The cannot just stay in the background.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 26, 2017, 03:01:13 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
You are putting logic onto me that I never had. Not sure if you are doing confirmation bias here or scum reaching.

You said this "imagine if I was SK and I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone thru... I would have been the number 1 target for mafia." Because this would be a bad move for the SK, you therefore are not the SK.

This is really only a fear, though, if you know mcmc will flip scum, which isn't something you would have known at the time, unless you were his partner.

I... think Robz is making sense here. That's a valid point, right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:01:19 pm
Like every scum, the SK has to play to their town meta or they will be lynched. The cannot just stay in the background.
Which I have done in previous games to a certain extent perfectly fine.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 03:02:52 pm
And you aren't addressing my actual point. And that is that SK would want to stay in the background and not risk being a prime NK target, regardless of whether or not mafia was flipped.

No, I don't think that's true. The logic here only holds for mcmc being mafia, as you noted, in your initial post, which made this presumption, and is I think quite possibly a scumslip.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 26, 2017, 03:03:01 pm
Vote: TWM
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:27:13 pm
And you aren't addressing my actual point. And that is that SK would want to stay in the background and not risk being a prime NK target, regardless of whether or not mafia was flipped.

No, I don't think that's true. The logic here only holds for mcmc being mafia, as you noted, in your initial post, which made this presumption, and is I think quite possibly a scumslip.
It isn't.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:29:16 pm
So am I SK or mafia? I can't be both. Someone tell me my alignment please, cause I obviously don't know what it is. I thought I was town. But really smart, good mafia players are telling me otherwise and everyone seems to be agreeing with them even though they can't decide what they agree about.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 03:41:02 pm
Actually... was that a scumslip from TWM? The logic of what he posted only holds if he new mcmc's scum alignment ahead of time.
You are putting logic onto me that I never had. Not sure if you are doing confirmation bias here or scum reaching.

You said this "imagine if I was SK and I had stayed on mcmc and the lynch had gone thru... I would have been the number 1 target for mafia." Because this would be a bad move for the SK, you therefore are not the SK.

This is really only a fear, though, if you know mcmc will flip scum, which isn't something you would have known at the time, unless you were his partner.

I... think Robz is making sense here. That's a valid point, right?

Nope. Not seeing a scumslip anywhere. I think Robz is thinking about this too hard and is confusing himself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:43:54 pm
Seriously?

Which is it:

Mafia that purposely bussed his partner hard on Day 1 (sure I left the wagon, but still that is a ballsy, risky move) and vice versa from him? This must be the case if Robz's scumslip theory is true.

Or SK that decided it was a good idea to play a really pro-active and pushing, aggressive style that would make me a high candidate for the mafia kill when it would have been easier and better play to stay back and low key? And then decided to kill off the same player that could still have been a good mislynch target the next day (from SK's perspective everyone is a mislynch target)?

OOOOOOOORRRRRRRRR

Town who played a pretty decent, but ultimately suboptimal Day 1 and an even worse Day 2, who is being framed by what is probably desperate mafia and/or SK who wants to take advantage of the situation along with other eager townies who are seeing only what they want to see?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:45:25 pm
Also Andrew is town. SK or mafia would be clamoring all over this opportunity to get a mislynch here. Scum has zero reason to defend me here. Remember that when I am dead.

He could be the traitor thinking that I am the other mafia and wanting to save me from being lynched. But I guess that is probably a long shot.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 03:46:21 pm
I think TWM's point is if he was SK he would not draw attention to himself as much as he did yesterday with all the mcmc wagon stuff so as not to be a target for mafia. He used scum!Mcmc as an example but I think he meant regardless of the person's alignment he would want to lay low.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 03:51:29 pm
TWM your point about saving mcmc as he could be a potential mislynch later, that's not really a point in your favor specifically. I think everyone would've had the same train of thought and would not've shot mcmc. Thus I think there was some other PR at work and maybe trying to tie a direct link from the mcmc kill to someone else is a little shoddy. And those who have been trying to do just that are a little scummy. Now would be a good time to look at the setup.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 03:54:11 pm
TWM your point about saving mcmc as he could be a potential mislynch later, that's not really a point in your favor specifically. I think everyone would've had the same train of thought and would not've shot mcmc. Thus I think there was some other PR at work and maybe trying to tie a direct link from the mcmc kill to someone else is a little shoddy. And those who have been trying to do just that are a little scummy. Now would be a good time to look at the setup.
I am not using it in my favor. I am using it as an argument for why faust wants to lynch me. He thinks that I shot mcmc because he was suspicious of me. His being a good mislynch I think would have over-rid that if I were actually the SK in this hypothetical scenario.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 03:58:49 pm
Request for vote count.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 26, 2017, 04:31:40 pm
Vote count 2.1
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (1): The_Wine_Merchant
kkrieg (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (4): Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, 2,71828....., kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 26, 2017, 05:23:28 pm
Vote: kkrieg

TWM is town, like I said D1
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 05:53:18 pm
Vote: kkrieg

TWM is town, like I said D1

What's the case on kkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 26, 2017, 06:00:30 pm
I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

You mean the eevee train.

This post is really interesting by kkrieg. And I think scummy

Vote: kkrieg

There was some scummy stuff D1 in my opinion, and then wagon stuff with the flip pointed out by gkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 26, 2017, 08:50:55 pm
Vote: kkrieg

TWM is town, like I said D1
Well now I am glad that I didn't go for either your or Andrew's lynch Day 1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 26, 2017, 09:24:36 pm
Vote: kkrieg

TWM is town, like I said D1
Well now I am glad that I didn't go for either your or Andrew's lynch Day 1.

Don't push your luck.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 27, 2017, 12:12:52 am
Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.

Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
Yea I won't deny that. I could have switched my vote but I honestly thought Awaclus was scummier than mcmc.


Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 27, 2017, 12:14:42 am
Vote: Robz


This is an L-2 vote on me.

I guess I'm not the worst lynch ever, if that's what's going to happen. I am a Vanilla Townie.
Also I totally believed this. I mean it was bolded and seemed official you know.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: kkrieg on April 27, 2017, 12:15:55 am
I am caught up, I am also a vanilla townie. I also don't have much to add. I am much less confident of my reads after failing super hard last game and think most people are playing as I expect them to be playing. I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus. Also I am sleepy and slightly inebriated.
Oops totally meant to quote this one.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 27, 2017, 12:20:07 am
Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:26:34 am
Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?

Check the win con in your role PM.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:29:02 am
Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?

Check the win con in your role PM.

Actually in the OP. The short answer is no. Town doesn't win with the SK alive.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 27, 2017, 01:25:22 am
Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?

Cautious town or "doesn't want to over commit to a mislynch" scum?

I am leaning towards the latter of the two
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 27, 2017, 01:37:28 am
Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?

Cautious town or "doesn't want to over commit to a mislynch" scum?

I am leaning towards the latter of the two
Cautious town. I feel like garbage for voting Awaclus.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 02:14:37 am
TWM your point about saving mcmc as he could be a potential mislynch later, that's not really a point in your favor specifically. I think everyone would've had the same train of thought and would not've shot mcmc. Thus I think there was some other PR at work and maybe trying to tie a direct link from the mcmc kill to someone else is a little shoddy. And those who have been trying to do just that are a little scummy. Now would be a good time to look at the setup.
I am not really sure what this means.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 02:30:59 am
There can be no other PR at work. The only explanation for mcmc dying is that the SK shot him. This is fairly obvious.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 07:46:52 am
And the only possible person who could have shot him is me because mcmc suspected me.

Way to narrow your line of thinking. Maybe I'll decide it must have been Robz because he feared mcmc being able to read him. That makes just as much sense right?

The beauty of your line of thinking is that I can't do anything about it. All of the evidence are things that mcmc said, not things that I said, yet I am being held accountable for them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 08:23:50 am
The beauty of your line of thinking is that I can't do anything about it. All of the evidence are things that mcmc said, not things that I said, yet I am being held accountable for them.
someone's like "I'm detective and twm killed someone" and you're like "ok that's something they said why am i accountable for it?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 27, 2017, 09:04:53 am
Eevee emotional analysis:

Sometimes in mafia, being suspected makes the target frustrated. I think there are three different kinds of frustration:

1. Omgus'ing, maybe saying "you should know better", getting aggressive towards the people suspecting you, calling them dumb.
2. Being unhappy with yourself for putting town in this position, the "woe is me".
3. Being frustrated at the arguments other people are making, calling the arguments terrible while not necessarily suspecting the people making them.


I think the first is pretty much a toss-up regarding their alignment, it's usually just a sign that someone is upset. The second I think is towny, because scum in that position is in fight-mode, not looking to concede it could be their fault, but rather looking to claw their way out of the trouble (robz really fooled me with acting resigned and blaming himself as scum in a recent game, but I'm not claiming these are perfect heuristics and Robz knows how I think pretty well and is good at manipulating me specifically). The third I think is a scum frame of mind "No, guys, if you only saw that argument is terrible, you'd realize you shouldn't suspect me", I think this often comes with not suspecting your accusers (because you know they are town), but trying to disprove their specific arguments because you don't feel they are legitimate (and the frustration comes from being in a bad spot with the suspicion but not feeling it's deserved because the arguments aren't "right").

TWM sounds to me like he is frustrated about the reasons for the suspicion, rather than being worried about the consequences for town, which seems to me like scum behavior.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 09:06:20 am
The beauty of your line of thinking is that I can't do anything about it. All of the evidence are things that mcmc said, not things that I said, yet I am being held accountable for them.
someone's like "I'm detective and twm killed someone" and you're like "ok that's something they said why am i accountable for it?
Don't be ridiculous.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 09:09:10 am
TWM sounds to me like he is frustrated about the reasons for the suspicion, rather than being worried about the consequences for town, which seems to me like scum behavior.
That is a fair criticism of me. I should care a bit more about what the impact of my mislynch will have on the game, but it is hard to do when players are approaching it with what I think is a somewhat reckless manner. See schadd's above comment. Is that comment supposed to make me feel better about town (assuming he is town) or more apathetic about whether or not we win after I get lynched?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 09:46:04 am
And the only possible person who could have shot him is me because mcmc suspected me.
Not only; I also think that no veteran SK would have shot mcmc.

The beauty of your line of thinking is that I can't do anything about it. All of the evidence are things that mcmc said, not things that I said, yet I am being held accountable for them.
That's true. I suppose that would suck for you, but it does not make my line of thinking any less valid.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 10:08:56 am
Well then I guess I am going to get lynched unless other people disagree about your assessment.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 27, 2017, 11:14:59 am
What is the case on TWM?

I eevee had a really good post, I disagree with the conclusion
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 11:27:09 am
What is the case on TWM?

mcmc was voting for me, so it is likely that I shot him. This makes me the SK.

I voted for mcmc but then left the wagon late at a time when if I had stayed and pressed the issue, he might have been lynched. This makes me mcmc's partner.

Pick your poison. And yes, I am sure there are some subtleties that I am purposefully leaving out (others can add them in as they see fit), but that is basically what it boils down to, right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 27, 2017, 11:31:16 am
What is the case on TWM?

I eevee had a really good post, I disagree with the conclusion

I think it's decently likely he's mcmc's partner given his comment refuting the SK logic, which only makes sense if he knew mcmc was scum.

Alternatively, it's possible he is the SK, for reasons faust has stated.

This makes him a pretty good person to lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 11:45:07 am
There can be no other PR at work. The only explanation for mcmc dying is that the SK shot him. This is fairly obvious.

Wait what? How are you sure? The setups with SK have no PR that could interfere, but the kill could've also come from a JOAT and no town NK could've been from a BP townie or a communter:

2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot Commuter; 2-shot JOAT

If there was a SK it would be one of these:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer

In which case a lack of a town NK could also be explained in 1 & 7 by the commuter. If the JK blocked the kill we would know by now I think, which makes me think we're not in 6. Similarly I don't think we're in 2. So I'm thinking we're in 1, 5, or 7.

Also, what does a Detective do? I can't find an entry for it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:12:39 pm
How does scum get killer without SK?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:12:52 pm
Killed
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 12:31:17 pm
JOAT as vig.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 27, 2017, 12:36:58 pm
Andrew, what on earth are you talking about?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:41:58 pm
Mafia JOAT and they have strongman and ninja
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 12:44:14 pm
Oh JOAT is a mafia role. Well, nevermind. SK it is.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 12:47:47 pm
Now, lots of things could've blocked the shot like commuter, JK, mafia shot SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 01:10:29 pm
In which case a lack of a town NK could also be explained in 1 & 7 by the commuter. If the JK blocked the kill we would know by now I think, which makes me think we're not in 6. Similarly I don't think we're in 2. So I'm thinking we're in 1, 5, or 7.
There's a bunch of explanations for a missing nightkill. I have no idea why we would know if the JK blocked the kill.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 01:13:53 pm
Andrew's post is so out there I don't think it's a purposeful townslip. So if we are in a JOAT setup, that means he's likely town.

... wrote that and then realized that there are no setups with both JOAT and SK. Boo hoo. That means it's not a townslip at all. Or maybe it is? I mean I would think that scum would have taken a closer look at the setup.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 27, 2017, 01:22:43 pm
Andrew's post is so out there I don't think it's a purposeful townslip. So if we are in a JOAT setup, that means he's likely town.

... wrote that and then realized that there are no setups with both JOAT and SK. Boo hoo. That means it's not a townslip at all. Or maybe it is? I mean I would think that scum would have taken a closer look at the setup.

It makes me think he is very unlikely to be mafia, but could still be SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 01:24:28 pm
Andrew's post is so out there I don't think it's a purposeful townslip. So if we are in a JOAT setup, that means he's likely town.

... wrote that and then realized that there are no setups with both JOAT and SK. Boo hoo. That means it's not a townslip at all. Or maybe it is? I mean I would think that scum would have taken a closer look at the setup.

It makes me think he is very unlikely to be mafia, but could still be SK.
If he was the SK he would be thrilled to vote for me. But he isn't. So he isn't the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 01:55:53 pm
TWM, it's not all about you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 02:16:28 pm
TWM, it's not all about you.
Sure it is. I have three votes right now and have had probably 80% of the posts today surrounding me.

But to be more serious, if you take as a given that I am town (which you can't know, but just go with me), if you or anyone else is mafia or SK I would think they would be jumping onto this, or at least leaving the door open to joining this wagon. Because I will concede there are items that point toward me being SK or mafia. I don't think they are great, but they are certainly there. I would basically be a great opportunity to get a townie lynched with little to zero blame or accountability. They could easily point back and say, Hey there was some really good evidence there, guess we were wrong as a whole.

There is little benefit for either Andrew or 2.7 as SK or mafia to flat out read me as town. The only benefit is if I say something like I am now. But there is no way they could anticipate I would react this way prior to them saying it and they couldn't even know if it would end up being useful as they wouldn't know if I might end up flipping SK or mafia and thus wouldn't be a trustworthy assessor of their alignment.

Morale of the story. I am townreading Andrew and 2.7 and you should to if I should die and when I flip town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 02:17:55 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 02:24:17 pm
something happened.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 27, 2017, 02:27:34 pm
TWM, it's not all about you.
Sure it is. I have three votes right now and have had probably 80% of the posts today surrounding me.

But to be more serious, if you take as a given that I am town (which you can't know, but just go with me), if you or anyone else is mafia or SK I would think they would be jumping onto this, or at least leaving the door open to joining this wagon. Because I will concede there are items that point toward me being SK or mafia. I don't think they are great, but they are certainly there. I would basically be a great opportunity to get a townie lynched with little to zero blame or accountability. They could easily point back and say, Hey there was some really good evidence there, guess we were wrong as a whole.

There is little benefit for either Andrew or 2.7 as SK or mafia to flat out read me as town. The only benefit is if I say something like I am now. But there is no way they could anticipate I would react this way prior to them saying it and they couldn't even know if it would end up being useful as they wouldn't know if I might end up flipping SK or mafia and thus wouldn't be a trustworthy assessor of their alignment.

Morale of the story. I am townreading Andrew and 2.7 and you should to if I should die and when I flip town.

I don't want to be giving a potential scum player advice, but... there will be more days this game, and it's probably in scum's advantage to have scummy-seeming people live beyond today. That way they will be around for mislynching later. So I don't think it's quite this obvious that scum (if not you) would be absolutely trying to get you lynched right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 02:28:52 pm
There is little benefit for either Andrew or 2.7 as SK or mafia to flat out read me as town.

There would be if you would end up flipping town. That should be obvious. That you don't factor that in... well, it does make it look like that is not an option for you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 02:29:20 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 02:31:38 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?

I'm not sure where I got the jokey title in this. 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 02:32:20 pm
It is also interesting that even looking at the interactions on the mcmc wagon, it is possible that only 1 of 3 scum actually knew mcmcsalot was mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 02:34:15 pm
There is little benefit for either Andrew or 2.7 as SK or mafia to flat out read me as town.

There would be if you would end up flipping town. That should be obvious. That you don't factor that in... well, it does make it look like that is not an option for you.
What is the benefit? Who is going to give them credit?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 02:35:45 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?

I'm not sure where I got the jokey title in this.

The "TWM it's not all about you" comment, mostly.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 02:36:11 pm
faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.
YES!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 27, 2017, 02:39:46 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?

I'm not sure where I got the jokey title in this.

The "TWM it's not all about you" comment, mostly.

Oh, that wasn't really a joke...  It was honest criticism.  I think only looking at interactions of people with you as a means of reading people is not a very good method.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 02:40:22 pm
Noted.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 03:31:48 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?
those are not exactly the things i'm looking for in SK, nor do i think discussing that is productive
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 03:32:36 pm
also gkrieg isn't lurking, nor do i think that's indicative of anything
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 27, 2017, 03:37:54 pm
Most lurky person is probably kkrieg and 2.7.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 27, 2017, 05:37:58 pm
faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.
YES!

I like it. Vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 27, 2017, 05:40:00 pm
Most lurky person is probably kkrieg and 2.7.

Good thing lurky does not mean scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 05:47:31 pm
faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.
I don't think reminding people of edge cases is a scum trait as much as a mathematician trait. I also don't really know where I did that.

I am probably also subject to some confirmation bias. Not everything TWM says is scummy, and in fact there are things that made me stop and wonder if he's town. But ultimately I believe he's the best lynch not because he exhibits so much scumminess, but because of the evidence i.e. mcmc's death. I have not heard another reasonable theory for why that happened.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 27, 2017, 05:47:45 pm
Most lurky person is probably kkrieg and 2.7.

Good thing lurky does not mean scummy.
No, that's not a good thing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 27, 2017, 06:10:02 pm

green -> not green; nobody especially seems sk other than twm and kind of maybe gkrieg
{eevee, faust}
{e}
{kkrieg}
{andrew, gkrieg}
{robz, twm}

Who do you think is more likely SK? Super active/overly defensive TWM or slightly lurky/jokey gkrieg?
those are not exactly the things i'm looking for in SK, nor do i think discussing that is productive

Ok but you said you were thinking either TWM or gkrieg for SK. Why?

also gkrieg isn't lurking, nor do i think that's indicative of anything

He's not lurking but he's also not at the forefront really.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 07:24:11 pm
twm because of the stuff we've talked about to death


gkrieg because uh he was confident mcmc was scum & was like "no i'm not SK"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 07:28:26 pm
But ultimately I believe he's the best lynch not because he exhibits so much scumminess, but because of the evidence i.e. mcmc's death. I have not heard another reasonable theory for why that happened.
1. Robz is SK and feared that mcmc would accurately read him as SK better than anyone else.
2. faust is SK and killed mcmc to frame me today.

What happens when I die and flip town? Just roll with that idea, K. What is your theory then?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 27, 2017, 08:42:52 pm
But ultimately I believe he's the best lynch not because he exhibits so much scumminess, but because of the evidence i.e. mcmc's death. I have not heard another reasonable theory for why that happened.
1. Robz is SK and feared that mcmc would accurately read him as SK better than anyone else.
they don't actually have a very good track record on each other. mcmc scumread robz m96, that's the only have that played where mcmc was town.


2. faust is SK and killed mcmc to frame me today.
took you long enough


What happens when I die and flip town? Just roll with that idea, K. What is your theory then?
robz is probably scum, though i don't see that as especially related to your flip. faust looked town to me since d1 & wouldn't change. andrew is probably town or something
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 27, 2017, 10:34:35 pm
I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 12:04:08 am
What Happens When I Flip Town How Does Your Theory Change Then?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 12:07:57 am
sorry i'm immune to ate bro ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 12:12:57 am
What Happens When I Flip Town How Does Your Theory Change Then?
Nothing. You will be dead.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 28, 2017, 12:15:27 am
I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.

I disagree. I think faust is an excellent lynch. Or kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 28, 2017, 01:04:47 am
Vote count 2.2
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (2): The_Wine_Merchant, 2,71828.....
kkrieg (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (3): Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 28, 2017, 01:16:57 am
I'll catch up tomorrow...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:43:25 am
1. Robz is SK and feared that mcmc would accurately read him as SK better than anyone else.
I don't think Robz would be worried about that.

2. faust is SK and killed mcmc to frame me today.
I am surprised it took you this long.

But it doesn't work. A SK has no need to frame anyone; they can just do normal scumhunting because well, they want to be lynching the other scum. If mcmc had been killed by mafia, I could see a framing angle, but not this way. (Fun fact: it is not actually impossible that the mafia killed mcmc)

What happens when I die and flip town? Just roll with that idea, K. What is your theory then?
Well it depends. I would look for interactions with you today specifically. I could kind of see kkrieg or Andrew doing the mcmc kill just because they are new and/or not very invested in the game. I find it very hard to believe that any of {Eevee, gkrieg, e, Robz} did that kill; schadd is also unlikely, but I have less data on his scum play.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:45:25 am
I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.
How is schadd scummy?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 09:24:28 am
Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 09:49:50 am
1. Robz is SK and feared that mcmc would accurately read him as SK better than anyone else.
I don't think Robz would be worried about that.

2. faust is SK and killed mcmc to frame me today.
I am surprised it took you this long.

But it doesn't work. A SK has no need to frame anyone; they can just do normal scumhunting because well, they want to be lynching the other scum. If mcmc had been killed by mafia, I could see a framing angle, but not this way. (Fun fact: it is not actually impossible that the mafia killed mcmc)

What happens when I die and flip town? Just roll with that idea, K. What is your theory then?
Well it depends. I would look for interactions with you today specifically. I could kind of see kkrieg or Andrew doing the mcmc kill just because they are new and/or not very invested in the game. I find it very hard to believe that any of {Eevee, gkrieg, e, Robz} did that kill; schadd is also unlikely, but I have less data on his scum play.
I am not saying they are amazing theories, but you asked and walla! But they are better than your theory, which I know is wrong.

And on your last statement, about only newbies killing mcmc, you have said that a couple of times,but haven't explained why ( again sorry if you did already, I tried to do a search, but forum is being bad on my mobile). Why would a vet not kill mcmc?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 10:01:50 am
I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.
How is schadd scummy?
I don't know. Mostly he is parroting what you are saying and then not adding anything valuable to the discussion. At least you are talking a bit with me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 10:12:18 am
And on your last statement, about only newbies killing mcmc, you have said that a couple of times,but haven't explained why ( again sorry if you did already, I tried to do a search, but forum is being bad on my mobile). Why would a vet not kill mcmc?
i believe i know what this reasoning is but you might rather have faust say it


I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.
How is schadd scummy?
I don't know. Mostly he is parroting what you are saying and then not adding anything valuable to the discussion. At least you are talking a bit with me.
I Thought I Would At Least Not Be The Prime Target Today For Pushing Mcmc
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 10:14:47 am
O.maybe you did say already? But I couldn't find you saying it. But I'll guess? Cause mcmc claimed VT and a SK would want to take out a PR?

I guess I can see that. But I think a vet could overrule that for other reasons. And I think it unfair (although you haven't actually said it, so sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) to think that a newbie would automatically play poorly.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 10:15:11 am
Post deleted due to mentioning of the ongoing game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 10:15:25 am
uhoh
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 10:21:20 am
Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust

These lists are interesting because it is possible that no one knows anyone else's identity, which means that looking for partner interactions is maybe not possible... 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 10:24:36 am
well there's a 2/3 we're in one of {m knows t, t knows m}, and someone could have gotten recruited last night. but yes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:26:52 am
And on your last statement, about only newbies killing mcmc, you have said that a couple of times,but haven't explained why ( again sorry if you did already, I tried to do a search, but forum is being bad on my mobile). Why would a vet not kill mcmc?
Well, I think an SK's killing priorities (especially on N1) are this:

Town PR >> scum > VT.

mcmc was a claimed VT. That means it is a pretty bad kill. You'd want to be killing off PRs who could out you or block your kills.

There's also the fact that a SK can do stuff in this setup when they don't kill. I think some vets might have gone for that over any kill and certainly over a claimed VT kill.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:31:46 am
I think schadd might be a better lynch than faust.
How is schadd scummy?
I don't know. Mostly he is parroting what you are saying and then not adding anything valuable to the discussion. At least you are talking a bit with me.
I was under the impression that schadd is pushing a mafia!TWM angle while I believe you're the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:33:59 am
I guess I can see that. But I think a vet could overrule that for other reasons. And I think it unfair (although you haven't actually said it, so sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) to think that a newbie would automatically play poorly.
Well it's just more likely. The vast majority of people play better with more experience. I don't know why assuming so is unfair. It's also not just an assumption - I have actually been scum with most of the vets here, so I know a thing or two about how they would play this.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:34:35 am
Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust

These lists are interesting because it is possible that no one knows anyone else's identity, which means that looking for partner interactions is maybe not possible...
I find that this makes them less interesting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 10:35:34 am
same magnitude of interesting, different direction
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:36:17 am
The other thing for the SK is that a surviving mcmc would likely have drawn a lot of attention today.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 10:37:12 am
Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust

These lists are interesting because it is possible that no one knows anyone else's identity, which means that looking for partner interactions is maybe not possible...
I find that this makes them less interesting.

I guess I meant it is interesting that they are less interesting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 10:42:34 am
Thinking about reads, I have no opinion on e, gkrieg, Eevee. I think gkrieg was townie for some reason? I don't remember what reason that was though.

I guess there's some rereading to be done.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 03:26:54 pm
Finally able to do some rereading of my own in no particular order at all.

So gkrieg is not mcmc's partner. Right, like can we all agree on that. Maybe traitor buddy, but not partner. He is egging on people to vote for him when Awaclus was at L-1.

schadd I had kind of forgotten that he was more pushing for mcmc. Those two guys were on before me and pushed harder than me. I guess I over remembered my involvement with voting mcmc (partially because that night and subsequent morning were a bit of a blur).

2.7 is probably the most interesting of them all. As he vote for mcmc, but then immediately switched to Awaclus. This is the sort of thing that I immediately want to think of as scummy, but isn't actually something scum would do. Because for him to do this, he would have to work himself up to vote mcmc, like probably doing a lot of double checking on where he is at, weighing benefits, etc. But to immediately then unvote and go to awaclus, just looks more like town who wanted to get a lynch on a suspicious person and be sure a lynch went through and then switched to awaclus when he saw it was more likely to go there. So probably really not mcmc's partner. Probably equal with gkrieg

I think I am missing something with the kkrieg points? Can someone expand on those again?

Who else? Robz tries to push away from voting him on his birthday, but that might just be brotherly affection.

And I kind of feel like Andrew and faust somewhat ignore mcmc. faust asks if anyone can convince him at one point. Neither of us go a great job at it, but it doesn't really go anywhere after that.

As for my defense in regard to him being my partner. I don't think we would buss Day 1 the way we did with each other.

And I really did think this felt like a townie response:
I am caught up, I am also a vanilla townie. I also don't have much to add. I am much less confident of my reads after failing super hard last game and think most people are playing as I expect them to be playing. I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus. Also I am sleepy and slightly inebriated.

tl;dr

gkrieg and 2.7 are townie, or at least not his partner. Could still be SK or traitor (this is the big takeaway)
I guess I overstated my townieness initially today. Sorry about that.
Am confused about the kkrieg stuff.
faust is mildly suspicious as is Robz

Probably more to come today.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 04:43:37 pm
As for SK, I really don't think I found anything super worthwhile to talk about here. So I guess I can see why faust is latching onto what he thinks is something that points toward me.

In my mind it makes much more sense to focus on finding the other mafia, not the SK. faust thought this as well right at the start of the day.

So we have a nice SK.

Well it does not make a lot of sense for a SK to go after a claimed VT one N1 I think. That only really works if they were afraid of mcmc. So that's a good place to start looking.

On the other hand, mcmc had a partner. That guy is also worth looking for.
Which I haven't really seen him do much of aside from saying that if I am not the SK, I must be mafia and am a good lynch. What a cop out.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 28, 2017, 04:50:11 pm
I like most everything that TWM said in his post. I am very suspicious of faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 28, 2017, 04:52:32 pm
The big long one like 3 posts ago that is
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 04:58:06 pm
I like most everything that TWM said in his post. I am very suspicious of faust
Yes. To be clear, my current suspicion of faust and Robz is more based off today's actions, call it OMGUS if you will, but I know I am town and I would probably be responding very much the way they are to me if I were mafia responding to myself.

And a little bit of it is simple removal of townier individuals (2.7, gkrieg, Andrew) leaving them as my main suspects.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 28, 2017, 05:00:19 pm
Vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:02:10 pm
I don't think faust is acting like scum at all.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 05:07:23 pm
I don't think faust is acting like scum at all.
How would he act if he were scum in this situation?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:14:40 pm
I think we would keep a lower profile.

Also, I will call your read on him OMGUS, per your invitation to do so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:15:04 pm
he*
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 05:29:23 pm
I think we would keep a lower profile.
You just lost your partner during the night. Your night kill didn't go through. Things are looking kinda bad if you are mafia. Is that really a great time to keep a lower profile and just hope things work out? Or do you need to push the issue?

If we are talking about faust as SK. Then yes, I absolutely agree. I am saying the same thing about myself, but I others shot that down pretty hard. Double standard?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:33:20 pm
The only strike I see against faust--and I guess I shouldn't write it off as much as I have--is that he has this long and complicated theory for why you are the SK, and I guess arguably that's most likely to be coming from mafia who's stinging from the loss of a partner last night. The impulse to extra super duper SK hunt has to be strong with mafia right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:35:27 pm
I'm talking about faust as mafia, and you as mafia, mostly, though I do see his argument for why you could be SK, and the fact that there's a case against you on both fronts is why I'm voting for you.

People who are disproportionately concerned about finding SK over mafia are more likely to themselves be mafia. This is a tell that's held pretty well, actually, in previous games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 05:40:00 pm
No, Iam at the point where I get the votes on me. I obviously don't agree with them, but I see the appeal and I am kind of anticipating being the lynch at this point, which, ok, fine, especially now that I got my thoughts down and hopefully people will find them mildly useful and remember them going into tomorrow.

It would be better to lynch elsewhere, but I think I only have 2.7 and Andrew on myside, but am unlikely to get support anywhere else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 05:42:46 pm
No, Iam at the point where I get the votes on me. I obviously don't agree with them, but I see the appeal and I am kind of anticipating being the lynch at this point, which, ok, fine, especially now that I got my thoughts down and hopefully people will find them mildly useful and remember them going into tomorrow.

It would be better to lynch elsewhere, but I think I only have 2.7 and Andrew on myside, but am unlikely to get support anywhere else.

You are way too resigned! In fact, it makes me suspicious, because it's too weird to be genuine.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 05:45:01 pm
No, Iam at the point where I get the votes on me. I obviously don't agree with them, but I see the appeal and I am kind of anticipating being the lynch at this point, which, ok, fine, especially now that I got my thoughts down and hopefully people will find them mildly useful and remember them going into tomorrow.

It would be better to lynch elsewhere, but I think I only have 2.7 and Andrew on myside, but am unlikely to get support anywhere else.

You are way too resigned! In fact, it makes me suspicious, because it's too weird to be genuine.
Go reread this whole last day man. Put yourself in my shoes. From the very first posts to your last one the trend has been me getting lynched at the end of day. Imagine that I am town and how despondent I must feel about my chances from what people have said.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:47:15 pm
So we have a nice SK.

Well it does not make a lot of sense for a SK to go after a claimed VT one N1 I think. That only really works if they were afraid of mcmc. So that's a good place to start looking.

On the other hand, mcmc had a partner. That guy is also worth looking for.
Which I haven't really seen him do much of aside from saying that if I am not the SK, I must be mafia and am a good lynch. What a cop out.
Err. I never said that?

Also, I reread mcmc right after that thing you quoted to look for partners. This is rather ridiculous misrepresentation.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:48:34 pm
The sad truth is that mcmc did not have a lot of interactions apart from his end-of-day wagon. Which I analyzed and formed some reads upon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 05:49:28 pm
I think we would keep a lower profile.

Also, I will call your read on him OMGUS, per your invitation to do so.

Uh, no he wouldn't.  Have you read his traitor game?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:50:53 pm
The only strike I see against faust--and I guess I shouldn't write it off as much as I have--is that he has this long and complicated theory for why you are the SK, and I guess arguably that's most likely to be coming from mafia who's stinging from the loss of a partner last night. The impulse to extra super duper SK hunt has to be strong with mafia right now.
And you think I would just give in to that as mafia?

I don't think my theory is "long and complicated", it's fairly obvious.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 28, 2017, 05:52:36 pm
I think we would keep a lower profile.

Also, I will call your read on him OMGUS, per your invitation to do so.

Uh, no he wouldn't.  Have you read his traitor game?
I do believe that traitors should play way differently than SKs for the record. A traitor wants to do out there things that would be too dangerous for the mafia.

That said I probably wouldn't ever keep a low profile. It doesn't become me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 05:57:55 pm
So we have a nice SK.

Well it does not make a lot of sense for a SK to go after a claimed VT one N1 I think. That only really works if they were afraid of mcmc. So that's a good place to start looking.

On the other hand, mcmc had a partner. That guy is also worth looking for.
Which I haven't really seen him do much of aside from saying that if I am not the SK, I must be mafia and am a good lynch. What a cop out.
Err. I never said that?

Also, I reread mcmc right after that thing you quoted to look for partners. This is rather ridiculous misrepresentation.
You are correct. Robz said it.

And yes, you assessed it, but to actually quote you this time:
I saw that, but it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 06:04:52 pm
Am confused about the kkrieg stuff.


Confused about what stuff?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 06:05:33 pm
I think we would keep a lower profile.

Also, I will call your read on him OMGUS, per your invitation to do so.

Uh, no he wouldn't.  Have you read his traitor game?
I do believe that traitors should play way differently than SKs for the record. A traitor wants to do out there things that would be too dangerous for the mafia.

That said I probably wouldn't ever keep a low profile. It doesn't become me.

It is very true.  A quiet faust is a dead faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 28, 2017, 06:09:22 pm
Am confused about the kkrieg stuff.


Confused about what stuff?
Why she is suspicious.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 28, 2017, 08:38:13 pm
what is gkrieg's track record reading faust & vice versa?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 28, 2017, 08:41:15 pm
I think gkrieg could be scummy. He is pretty accurate at reading me IRL. I think he knows I'm not scum and yet he's voting for me. Granted I am crap at reading gkrieg so you never know.


I think we would keep a lower profile.

I kinda agree with this. I think scum has reason to either lay low (like e, maybe eevee) or be super defensive (like twm)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 28, 2017, 09:23:35 pm
I think gkrieg could be scummy. He is pretty accurate at reading me IRL. I think he knows I'm not scum and yet he's voting for me.

Interesting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 28, 2017, 09:28:20 pm
what is gkrieg's track record reading faust & vice versa?

I think it is pretty bad both ways.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 29, 2017, 10:49:40 am
I think gkrieg could be scummy. He is pretty accurate at reading me IRL. I think he knows I'm not scum and yet he's voting for me.
what have you done here that you would expect him to townread you for?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 11:05:25 am
I think gkrieg could be scummy. He is pretty accurate at reading me IRL. I think he knows I'm not scum and yet he's voting for me. Granted I am crap at reading gkrieg so you never know.


I think we would keep a lower profile.

I kinda agree with this. I think scum has reason to either lay low (like e, maybe eevee) or be super defensive (like twm)
Vote: kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 11:24:52 am
I haven't done post counts or anything, but TWM has done more to move this game forward and find scum than anyone else. Sure, he has put himself out there and done some things that can be construed as scummy, but to me (especially what he has done D2) feels a lot like what I have found myself get in trouble for a lot, that is, act as if I am an IC and nothing can touch me and just post thoughts with impunity.....then get called scummy for it.

His level of activity, content, and drive is really what has been pushing the game forward in my opinion, and even if he is scum (which I doubt) I think we should try to lynch the other scums  (SK/traitor/goon) rather than him. A few more flips and we will be able to read TWM very well based on his positions. We just should not lynch him today at least.

That being said, wagons are cool. Back to

Vote: kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 12:29:08 pm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on April 29, 2017, 12:33:38 pm
Vote count 2.3
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (3): gkrieg13, The_Wine_Merchant, 2,71828.....
Not voting (2): Eevee, kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 29, 2017, 12:40:53 pm
Vote: TWM L-1.

I think there are parallels with his level of activity and effort here to the last day of fibonacci (?) mafia where we were scum together.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on April 29, 2017, 12:42:29 pm
Have others had trouble accessing the forum today?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 12:56:16 pm
Have others had trouble accessing the forum today?

Yes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 01:34:19 pm
I haven't done post counts or anything, but TWM has done more to move this game forward and find scum than anyone else. Sure, he has put himself out there and done some things that can be construed as scummy, but to me (especially what he has done D2) feels a lot like what I have found myself get in trouble for a lot, that is, act as if I am an IC and nothing can touch me and just post thoughts with impunity.....then get called scummy for it.

His level of activity, content, and drive is really what has been pushing the game forward in my opinion, and even if he is scum (which I doubt) I think we should try to lynch the other scums  (SK/traitor/goon) rather than him. A few more flips and we will be able to read TWM very well based on his positions. We just should not lynch him today at least.
You say that and yet you have been voting for me not too long ago.

It would be nice if ou actually shared your read on TWM and the reasons for it instead of just saying we shouldn't lynch him because he can post more than twice a day.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 29, 2017, 01:45:34 pm
kkrieg's wagon is wayyyyyy townier than TWM's.  Robz and schadd are null at best.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 01:46:36 pm
I haven't done post counts or anything, but TWM has done more to move this game forward and find scum than anyone else. Sure, he has put himself out there and done some things that can be construed as scummy, but to me (especially what he has done D2) feels a lot like what I have found myself get in trouble for a lot, that is, act as if I am an IC and nothing can touch me and just post thoughts with impunity.....then get called scummy for it.

His level of activity, content, and drive is really what has been pushing the game forward in my opinion, and even if he is scum (which I doubt) I think we should try to lynch the other scums  (SK/traitor/goon) rather than him. A few more flips and we will be able to read TWM very well based on his positions. We just should not lynch him today at least.
You say that and yet you have been voting for me not too long ago.

It would be nice if ou actually shared your read on TWM and the reasons for it instead of just saying we shouldn't lynch him because he can post more than twice a day.

I did that in the post you quoted....I will expand further though.

Not quoting spacific references because that is too hard on the phone

1) his initial townread on me from D1 was not something that I think he does as scum. I had made a few posts, said a few things, and he comes out saying I am 100% town. Ok, not quite like that, but I don't think scum!TWM reads me quite like that.

2) the way he entered into D2 and got suspicion and stuff felt very much like how I post sometimes as town when I feel like everything I have done makes me obv!town. I usually do the whole claim IC thing even though I am not, but his posts have the feel of someone who thinks they can post with impunity and there is no way town would ever lynch them. Except town does lynch them.

I still remember dice mafia where I had 9 town lynch me on D2 without a single scum on the wagon. I have a way of getting (unintentionally) into TvT battles. I feel like that is happening somewhat with TWM.

Except, of course, I think faust is scum on the wagon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:10:05 pm
vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:13:36 pm
kkrieg's wagon is wayyyyyy townier than TWM's.  Robz and schadd are null at best.
Well you are town, TWM is scum and e is null, so it kinda cancels out.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:16:58 pm
vote: faust
What's up with the switching around?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:19:42 pm
vote: faust
What's up with the switching around?
I thought maybe that kkrieg had a better chance of being lynched than you. Realized that is futile and now just want my vote to be on you at the end of day so people will better remember to be suspicious of you when I flip town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:20:10 pm
I don't really find kkrieg suspicious, but she is a better lynch than me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:21:25 pm
1) his initial townread on me from D1 was not something that I think he does as scum. I had made a few posts, said a few things, and he comes out saying I am 100% town. Ok, not quite like that, but I don't think scum!TWM reads me quite like that.

2) the way he entered into D2 and got suspicion and stuff felt very much like how I post sometimes as town when I feel like everything I have done makes me obv!town. I usually do the whole claim IC thing even though I am not, but his posts have the feel of someone who thinks they can post with impunity and there is no way town would ever lynch them. Except town does lynch them.
Okay, that's something I can work with.

1) I don't remember the particular incident, but do you think SK!TWM would have played it different from mafia!TWM? I mean usually it's pretty difficult to notice the difference.

2) I never got the feeling from TWM that he thought there's no way town would lynch him. He seemed pretty aware of that possibility the whole time. The only thing I can remember is posting something about how he thought the flip made him townie in his very first D2 post. I am not sure where you get that vibe from otherwise.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:22:50 pm
vote: faust
What's up with the switching around?
I thought maybe that kkrieg had a better chance of being lynched than you. Realized that is futile and now just want my vote to be on you at the end of day so people will better remember to be suspicious of you when I flip town.
Is that a VT claim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:24:09 pm
So rereading mcmc. I'm positive that we can figure this out.

Okay, so he is pushing pretty hard for TWM.

This is interesting interaction:
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
schadd, why did you ask mcmc?

There is more TWM tunnelling. This starts to look pretty bad for him.

I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus.
Is mcmc's partner in here? Arguably yes. But it's a big list, so eh.

Okay, I feel like there isn't really a lot to take away in terms of partner reads, but it feels like TWM is the only one with a motive to kill mcmc.

Another interesting data point would be the mcmc wagon.

This is the mcmc wagon history.

gkrieg, TWM
[these two have been voting mcmc for a while through D1.

I'd be ok with Awaclus or Andrew
kkrieg does not mention mcmc at all here. Scummy.

I would go for E if the votes were there. If not I'll stick with Andrew. Awaclus is also fine. This does not feel like scum mcmc to me.
Also not too good, but it feels unlikely that both scum would claim VT on D1.

Andrew & TWM move towards Awaclus.

gkrieg votes for Andrew, and then unvotes, thus removing his vote from mcmc in a non-obvious way. That's quite crafty if intentional.

schadd votes mcmc. Town points here. Then gkrieg switches back (ok, I suppose the above was not intentioal), Then Awaclus.

If I'm seeing correctly, this is the mcmc wagon at peak:

TWM, schadd, gkrieg, Awaclus

Robz continues to push off of mcmc. Ironically, TWM takes the lead on destroying the mcmc wagon. His is the deciding vote. The others on mcmc stay there.

So schadd and gkrieg definitely look townie (or, I guess, non-SK-y). Mild scum read on Robz, stronger on kkrieg and Andrew.

I just reread TWM and this case feels really fabricated to me. First of all, TWM was voting awaclus much more throughout d1 than he was voting mcmc. He had a clear scum read on both, and as the day was nearing the end he landed on Awaclus. Saying he left mcmc because he felt like the lynch would land there is just false
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:24:19 pm
vote: faust
What's up with the switching around?
I thought maybe that kkrieg had a better chance of being lynched than you. Realized that is futile and now just want my vote to be on you at the end of day so people will better remember to be suspicious of you when I flip town.
Is that a VT claim?
No.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:25:30 pm
I don't really find kkrieg suspicious, but she is a better lynch than me.
And yet you voted for her specifically in response to one of her posts. That does not look like you just wanted slef-preservation; it looks like something in that post made you think she's scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:26:19 pm
Yeah I left the mcmc wagon cause I got fooled by his claim post and felt others saw it similarly and thought I had something better in awaclus late in the day
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:27:13 pm
I don't really find kkrieg suspicious, but she is a better lynch than me.
And yet you voted for her specifically in response to one of her posts. That does not look like you just wanted slef-preservation; it looks like something in that post made you think she's scummy.
Sorry I made it look that way. I didn't realize it would be construed that way.

I have asked others to show why she was suspicious, but those haven't responded.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:28:57 pm
Oh.i voted that way cause I am on iPad and it is easer to reply by quoting than scrolling up or down to the reply button.

There were posts inbetween the Top and bottom between her post. Sorry.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:30:06 pm
Why do I feel like whatever I did there Faust would have found it scummy?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:30:11 pm
I just reread TWM and this case feels really fabricated to me. First of all, TWM was voting awaclus much more throughout d1 than he was voting mcmc. He had a clear scum read on both, and as the day was nearing the end he landed on Awaclus. Saying he left mcmc because he felt like the lynch would land there is just false
Not sure why you're quoting that whole post from me as if responding to a "case" (it was not a case) and then all you really respond to is half a sentence from it...

Anyway I don't know why you are even picking this. It's not why I am voting for TWM.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:31:41 pm
The first time TWM votes mcmc is 24 hours prior to deadline. Before that he was all about awaclus. He then switches back to awaclus, back to mcmc, then back to awaclus.

Scum does not do that D1 with a partner. Maybe make a case for SK or traitor, but I just don't see that situation with the rest of his play (outside of end of D1)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:31:57 pm
Why do I feel like whatever I did there Faust would have found it scummy?
I have no idea. You have to admit that for any objective observer it would have to look like you voted for kkrieg as a reaction to that post, no?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 02:32:45 pm
Scum does not do that D1 with a partner. Maybe make a case for SK or traitor, but I just don't see that situation with the rest of his play (outside of end of D1)
I have a feeling that so far you have not read a single one of my posts.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:35:45 pm
Why do I feel like whatever I did there Faust would have found it scummy?
I have no idea. You have to admit that for any objective observer it would have to look like you voted for kkrieg as a reaction to that post, no?
Sure. But once hearing that I did not suspect her I think an objective observer could easily conclude that I in fact didn't.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:37:04 pm
Scum does not do that D1 with a partner. Maybe make a case for SK or traitor, but I just don't see that situation with the rest of his play (outside of end of D1)
I have a feeling that so far you have not read a single one of my posts.

Have you read a single one of TWM's?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 02:38:12 pm
Scum does not do that D1 with a partner. Maybe make a case for SK or traitor, but I just don't see that situation with the rest of his play (outside of end of D1)
I have a feeling that so far you have not read a single one of my posts.
Faust thinks I am SK cause mcmc voted for me and that I must have felt sort of newbie anxiety about that and killed him ignoring that he had claimed VT and can't imagine that anyone else could have any reason to kill him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:38:46 pm
I don't really find kkrieg suspicious, but she is a better lynch than me.
And yet you voted for her specifically in response to one of her posts. That does not look like you just wanted slef-preservation; it looks like something in that post made you think she's scummy.
Sorry I made it look that way. I didn't realize it would be construed that way.

I have asked others to show why she was suspicious, but those haven't responded.

She calls things scummy but is very hesitant to cast a vote for the cases she presents. The hedge factor is strong and scummy with kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:41:57 pm
Scum feel like their biggest threat is the SK, and that is also how they can appear towny, if they help catch the SK.

Faust-> goon
kkrieg-> SK
Don't know the traitor
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 02:44:11 pm
Basically, faust is not scum hunting, he is SK-hunting. Which I think is scummy.

That being said, let's lynch the SK first, then we can lynch faust tomorrow
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 03:09:01 pm
Basically, faust is not scum hunting, he is SK-hunting. Which I think is scummy.

That being said, let's lynch the SK first, then we can lynch faust tomorrow
You are SK-hunting! You're scummy. ..

Did I do that right?

Like you, I have ideas for who the other mafia is. Like you, I think lynching the SK is better. Not sure where the difference is here.

Also you jump from "faust is scummy because he thinks TWM is mafia" to "faust is scummy because he thinks TWM is the SK" without blinking. You didn't stop for a minute to think how this should change your read on me.

I am not talking as much about who mcmc's partner is because I think the evidence against TWM is much stronger than against Robz or kkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 03:22:57 pm
Actually, my read on kkrieg was really one that she is not-town more than a specific goon/traitor/sk. She fits into your "newbie kills mcmc" mold very well, and when TWM mentioned it is really when I thought she could be. She may actually be the traitor who knows mafia, which would make sense with her mcmc hedge on D1. She was scum for me D1 before mcmc ever factored into things.

But you are definitely goon material. I don't think your SK-hunting is indicative of you being sk or really traitor, I think you are the last goon.

So I am actually SCUM hunting, and certain scum fall in certain categories. You are SK-hunting. Which is scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 03:32:22 pm
I would also love if someone switched off TWM. We really don't need kkrieg swooping in and lynching him before we get around to lynching her.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 29, 2017, 03:52:24 pm
unvote but like why do you think she would do that
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 03:53:32 pm
Plus 2.7 is super townie for other reasons. Could be traitor. That is it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 03:55:33 pm
Town reads:
The_Wine_Merchant
schadd

Middle of the road/need to reread:
Eevee
gkrieg13
AndrewisFTTW
Robz888

Scum:
faust
kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 03:58:12 pm
unvote but like why do you think she would do that

I don't actually think she would, but it was possible, now it is not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 04:00:55 pm
Actually, my read on kkrieg was really one that she is not-town more than a specific goon/traitor/sk. She fits into your "newbie kills mcmc" mold very well, and when TWM mentioned it is really when I thought she could be. She may actually be the traitor who knows mafia, which would make sense with her mcmc hedge on D1. She was scum for me D1 before mcmc ever factored into things.

But you are definitely goon material. I don't think your SK-hunting is indicative of you being sk or really traitor, I think you are the last goon.

So I am actually SCUM hunting, and certain scum fall in certain categories. You are SK-hunting. Which is scummy.
Except there is no difference between what we do.

I looked at everything that happens, and I am pushing for the player who is most likely to flip scum. That this player is much more likely to be SK than other scum is just coincidence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 04:12:09 pm
So rereading mcmc. I'm positive that we can figure this out.

Okay, so he is pushing pretty hard for TWM.

This is interesting interaction:
mcmc, do you think i think you're town or scum?


will ask again later

I think you think I'm town.
schadd, why did you ask mcmc?

There is more TWM tunnelling. This starts to look pretty bad for him.

I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus.
Is mcmc's partner in here? Arguably yes. But it's a big list, so eh.

Okay, I feel like there isn't really a lot to take away in terms of partner reads, but it feels like TWM is the only one with a motive to kill mcmc.

Another interesting data point would be the mcmc wagon.

This is the mcmc wagon history.

gkrieg, TWM
[these two have been voting mcmc for a while through D1.

I'd be ok with Awaclus or Andrew

kkrieg does not mention mcmc at all here. Scummy.


I would go for E if the votes were there. If not I'll stick with Andrew. Awaclus is also fine. This does not feel like scum mcmc to me.
Also not too good, but it feels unlikely that both scum would claim VT on D1.

Andrew & TWM move towards Awaclus.

gkrieg votes for Andrew, and then unvotes, thus removing his vote from mcmc in a non-obvious way. That's quite crafty if intentional.

schadd votes mcmc. Town points here. Then gkrieg switches back (ok, I suppose the above was not intentioal), Then Awaclus.

If I'm seeing correctly, this is the mcmc wagon at peak:

TWM, schadd, gkrieg, Awaclus

Robz continues to push off of mcmc. Ironically, TWM takes the lead on destroying the mcmc wagon. His is the deciding vote. The others on mcmc stay there.

So schadd and gkrieg definitely look townie (or, I guess, non-SK-y). Mild scum read on Robz, stronger on kkrieg and Andrew.

From the very beginning you are trying to figure out who would kill mcmc, not who would be mcmc's partner. You cast suspicion elsewhere, and have reaffirmed suspicions, but the only thing you care about in the end is that you think TWM has motive to kill. I think the points you make against kkrieg are far better than the conclusion that TWM is SK. But you aren't hunting for a partner. You are hunting for a SK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 29, 2017, 04:29:00 pm
Also, sitting in the back of a vehicle for 6 hours with nothing to do but check f.ds does wonders for your post count. If only the forum wasn't being so temperamental.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 29, 2017, 04:45:39 pm
I'm having a lot of trouble with the forums right now, but E has made a really good case for switching from TWM to kkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 05:09:25 pm
From the very beginning you are trying to figure out who would kill mcmc, not who would be mcmc's partner. You cast suspicion elsewhere, and have reaffirmed suspicions, but the only thing you care about in the end is that you think TWM has motive to kill.
This is all just wrong. You have bolded some stuff in my post, but that doesn't allow for the conclusions ou're drawing here at all. I reread mcmc; the only really noticable he's done is tunnel TWM. Just because you don't think I'm right in my suspicion of TWM doesn't mean I've been SK hunting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 29, 2017, 05:11:47 pm
I mean you say it yourslef; you think the conclusions I draw on kkrieg are better than those on TWM. I don't. Just because we disagree on this doesn't make me scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 29, 2017, 07:32:46 pm
Forum is completely unusable at my house.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 29, 2017, 08:17:33 pm
Forum is completely unusable at my house.
Everywhere
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 29, 2017, 11:46:14 pm
Definitely realized I could have hammered TWM earlier today but I didn't.

She calls things scummy but is very hesitant to cast a vote for the cases she presents. The hedge factor is strong and scummy with kkrieg
This is true. I have commitment problems and don't want to be wrong.

Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 12:29:39 am
vote: kkrieg
PS faust; this time I am voting her because i find her suspicious
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on April 30, 2017, 01:55:40 am
Vote count 2.4
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Robz888, Eevee
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (3): gkrieg13, 2,71828....., The_Wine_Merchant
Not voting (2): kkrieg, schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. If the forum continues to be so slow, i will prolong the deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 30, 2017, 02:42:28 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 02:47:39 pm
Why is kkrieg not voting for TWM out of sheer self-preservation? Is she enough that she doesn't know to do that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 02:47:52 pm
I'm trying to decide if that says anything about her.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 02:48:29 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.

I should probably re-read too. Eevee is flying super duper under the radar right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 30, 2017, 02:50:44 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.

I feel all talked out until people have had a chance to respond to what was said between faust, TWM, and myself
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on April 30, 2017, 03:19:38 pm
D1 Eevee does a lot of conversation, some poking at people's opinions, other stuff is just banter. In terms of Eevee's own opinions there is very little.

The first vote is jumping on e for lurking. He has a scumread on mcmc, that's interesting. Town on Robz, TWM, me.

The back and forth with schadd... I want to say not partners, but well that does not tell us anything really.

Eevee keeps his vote on e for a long time even though he expressed a scumread on mcmc. There may be something here. ... yes, the vote stays there until the end.

This is Eevee's last D1 post:
Awaclus would be a total "guess" lynch for me, he has played just like I'd expect him to play day 1 either alignment. I think he is generally hard to townread with certainty, but conversely also hard to pinpoint as scum. Especially this early, this is just totally what I think both scum and town versions of Awaclus would look like.
At that point there are already two votes on mcmc, Eevee's only expressed scumread. That is... bad. And then Eevee is just gone, without doing anything worthwhile. It looks to me like he was scared of committing.

Though timing is relevant. Eevee's my time zone, so his final post was 1:30 am. Reasonable enough time to go to sleep. But then why did he not say something or switch his vote? One hour later, the mcmc wagon picks up. At this point it is very likely that mafia!Eevee would be afraid of either lynching his partner or incriminating himself and thus disappears.

Okay, starting D2!

He goes with my TWM suspicion, which is unfortunately not really an alignment-tell.

Actually, I guess the better question is, how do you think they'd decide who to shoot if not like that? Why else would they have shot a claimed VT?
Actually, he's pushing the angle pretty hard, which makes sense for mafia!Eevee to get himself out of the spotlight. While people talk about the nightkill, they don't talk about the end of D1, and that's how Eevee could get suspected.

Okay, so that's pretty much much. Going into D2, Eevee said this:
Just phone access now, but mcmc being the almost-lynch of yesterday should be helpful in determining the second mafia at least. Like, probably not e based on his voting, so my suspicion on yesterday was wrong on that at least (again, probably).
Yet he does never do anything even resembling looking for mcmc's partner and instead focuses solely in the TWM thing. All this is quite scummy. Like right now I think Eevee is a better lynch target than kkrieg, but not convinced he's better than TWM.

I'd add that Eevee is unlikely to be SK though; his confusion about the nightkill looks real enough.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 30, 2017, 03:25:18 pm
Why is kkrieg not voting for TWM out of sheer self-preservation? Is she enough that she doesn't know to do that?
1. I don't need to vote in self-preservation. I am town/ don't think I will get lynched/ don't feel a need to be defensive.

2. Also didn't vote for TWM because I think people would read me as desperate and scummy for doing so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 04:10:24 pm
Do you think I am scummy? If you do, you should vote for me. Commit to that read.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 30, 2017, 04:48:25 pm
Do you think I am scummy? If you do, you should vote for me. Commit to that read.
Okkkkkk. Vote: TWM.
L-1 I believe.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 05:10:55 pm
Niiiiiicccceeee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 30, 2017, 06:32:29 pm
Been busier than I anticipated this week. I got time tomorrow to look over everything though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 06:53:33 pm
fake hammer: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 06:53:40 pm
react please
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 30, 2017, 07:06:16 pm
My goal is to be voting scum at the end of each day. So I'm not changing my vote.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:08:30 pm
cool
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:09:02 pm
shouldn't your goal be to lynch that person?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:11:12 pm
fake hammer: twm
:-X
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:22:33 pm
bad reaction


fake hammer: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:25:26 pm
fake hammer: twm
8)?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:27:05 pm
real hammer: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:28:44 pm
real hammer: twm
:-*??
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:32:28 pm
what is your opinion on robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:33:35 pm
what is your opinion on robz
Slightly scummy. Less so than others. Should probably be given a chance to decide if he wants to switch to kkrieg before you hammer me for realz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:36:23 pm
that's all i needed to hear


final, real hammer: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:39:41 pm
final, real hammer: twm
:o???
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:44:52 pm
should i vote u?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:45:47 pm
should i vote u?
No.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:46:16 pm
porq?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:48:34 pm
porq?
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwRQqfc9u0WWKaanpCRw4qTc1-RsCvypy0kz_Yf-Ta7ZctDyhl6mFweNE)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:49:12 pm
thin ice.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:53:58 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/wMxowey.png)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:55:58 pm
thin ice.
(http://www.pembinavalleyonline.com/images/stories/NEWS/Altona/altona_thin_ice1.JPG)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:57:07 pm
i totally can & totally would. why shouldn't i vote you?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 07:58:04 pm
i totally can & totally would. why shouldn't i vote you?
Lots of posts explaining this in the thread. Feel free to look them up.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 07:59:56 pm
yes i've been reading the thread. i want to hear what your current answer to the question is
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:00:05 pm
But this one in particular:

Ian so totally town that you all should see it and if you don't then you are a dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:00:31 pm
yes i've been reading the thread. i want to hear what your current answer to the question is
My answer is the same. If you have a specific question about what I posted earlier, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:00:52 pm
same as what?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:02:44 pm
same as what?
Same as all my posts in this thread. I am not going to say anything new or different that I haven't said already. If you thought my responses were inadequate before, they will be inadequate now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:06:59 pm
let it be inadequate then. i would like a summary


how about:
-do you think it is impossible that i change my mind right now?
-do you think you have played well this game?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:10:59 pm
I'm sort of losing confidence in either TWM or kkrieg flipping scum. I don't know, TWM's righteous indignation about being suspected is all of a sudden feeling more townie to me. And when I called kkrieg out for not voting TWM yet, her reaction seemed pretty townie to me.

But I don't what the next best option would be.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:11:48 pm
Actually it's very possible schadd is the next best option. I sort of totally forgot about schadd here, which is not something that usually happens.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:11:57 pm
I should unvote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:12:40 pm
was i bussing again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:12:50 pm
-do you think it is impossible that i change my mind right now?
If you are town then I think you can change your mind. I think it unlikely given your attitude toward me.

If you are mafia I don't see you pretending to change your mind. I think you go through the motions here of pretending to be open minded and then hammer me regardless of what I say.

I don't know which of those above is more likely. Probably the top one.
-do you think you have played well this game?
I think I already answered this. But no, I have not played well. I should have stayed on mcmc and not been duped by his claim. I should have not thought more highly of myself and thinking I was townier than I actually was. I shouldn't have gotten into silly arguments with faust at the beginning of the day.

But after that I feel I have played decent in trying to argue against my lynch and toward others who I think would be better. That Andrew and 2.7 agree with me makes me feel good. But obviously getting only 2 out of 9 players to agree with you isn't exactly a great stat. So I guess it depends if I end up being right about faust and Robz and now kkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:14:21 pm
In schadd's recent interactions with TWM, it looks like he's trying to get TWM to slip up in some way, thus justifying a vote that hopefully (from schadd's POV) won't looking scummy even after TWM's flip.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:15:29 pm
A faust vote is better than a schadd vote.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:16:18 pm
A faust vote is better than a schadd vote.

Nah, I'd rather lynch you than faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:24:04 pm
In schadd's recent interactions with TWM, it looks like he's trying to get TWM to slip up in some way, thus justifying a vote that hopefully (from schadd's POV) won't looking scummy even after TWM's flip.
what might qualify as a slip up?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:24:41 pm
and how do you know i'm not town looking for such a slip up
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:31:15 pm
In schadd's recent interactions with TWM, it looks like he's trying to get TWM to slip up in some way, thus justifying a vote that hopefully (from schadd's POV) won't looking scummy even after TWM's flip.
what might qualify as a slip up?

Not sure, TWM just saying something kind of scummy and you going, "I was on the fence before, but not I will vote for you for this," and then later you'll say, "Well, he did do X." I don't know. Like you want to vote for TWM, but you need him to screw up worse first.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 08:31:28 pm
Maybe I'm not making any sense.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:31:59 pm
you mean like responding to a question with a picture of a pig?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:42:26 pm
you mean like responding to a question with a picture of a pig?
You said pork. That isn't a question.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:42:52 pm
i said porq
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:43:39 pm
i said porq
I have no idea what that means. I thought you had a typo.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:44:25 pm
i also didn't actually think much of it at the time. but saying i could have claimed to


q key isn't next to k key in any keyboard layout
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:44:53 pm
porque, porquois are both questions i like to ask
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:45:15 pm
i have tended toward the latter lately because french is kinda cool
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:45:58 pm
Dude. Don't blame me that half of your posts are complete nonsense. You want to communicate with me, learn some communication skills.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:46:48 pm
i wasn't blaming you
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:47:31 pm
you mean like responding to a question with a picture of a pig?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:48:16 pm
i also didn't actually think much of it at the time. but saying i could have claimed to
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 08:48:53 pm
Hey Robz.

vote: schadd
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 08:49:21 pm
i bet
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 09:00:45 pm
Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 09:02:08 pm
yeah
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on April 30, 2017, 09:24:36 pm
I'm sort of losing confidence in either TWM or kkrieg flipping scum. I don't know, TWM's righteous indignation about being suspected is all of a sudden feeling more townie to me. And when I called kkrieg out for not voting TWM yet, her reaction seemed pretty townie to me.

But I don't what the next best option would be.
I honestly don't feel great about TWM vote. I wasn't voting him originally because I think voting scum is better than having the attitude of "voting anyone as long as it isn't me." But I'm currently voting him because we need to lynch someone to get this game moving.

What are some scummy points on schadd?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on April 30, 2017, 10:00:03 pm
The problem here is I am predisposed to find schadd's weird humor scummy, even though it's not really alignment indicative for him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on April 30, 2017, 10:15:45 pm
i'm pretty sure i have done other stuff. whether or not you should find my sense of humor scummy is not a dichotomy i think will be helpful
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 30, 2017, 10:40:41 pm
The problem here is I am predisposed to find schadd's weird humor scummy, even though it's not really alignment indicative for him.
This is a problem.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 04:42:01 am
Why has everyone been ignoring my Eevee reread?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 04:42:47 am
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 04:55:28 am
I'm sort of losing confidence in either TWM or kkrieg flipping scum. I don't know, TWM's righteous indignation about being suspected is all of a sudden feeling more townie to me. And when I called kkrieg out for not voting TWM yet, her reaction seemed pretty townie to me.

But I don't what the next best option would be.
I honestly don't feel great about TWM vote. I wasn't voting him originally because I think voting scum is better than having the attitude of "voting anyone as long as it isn't me." But I'm currently voting him because we need to lynch someone to get this game moving.

What are some scummy points on schadd?
I thought you're voting for him because you think he's scummy:
Do you think I am scummy? If you do, you should vote for me. Commit to that read.
Okkkkkk. Vote: TWM.
L-1 I believe.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 08:46:17 am
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 01, 2017, 09:21:50 am
faust can u give a readlist?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 10:44:34 am
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 10:45:15 am
faust can u give a readlist?
Sure; it may have to wait until tomorrow.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 11:35:55 am
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.

Well you said you didn't think Eevee was likely to be the SK, which I think doesn't make him the best lynch right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 12:00:23 pm
Jesus. I just typed and sent lynch instead of lunch in a work e-mail to the boss of my boss.

Thanks a lot mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 01, 2017, 12:52:46 pm
Sorry for being absent, first of may is a huge national holiday in finland, haven't been to the internet at all. And before that, the forums weren't working.
I think schadd has a playstyle where he can easily become really obviously town when he is town, so the fact he is not looking obviously towny now kind of does make him more likely to be scum. I wasn't really even thinking about it until it got brought up, has anyone suspected schadd much this game? I feel he has been very present, but not really much in opposition with anyone.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 12:55:13 pm
I think schadd has a playstyle where he can easily become really obviously town when he is town, so the fact he is not looking obviously towny now kind of does make him more likely to be scum. I wasn't really even thinking about it until it got brought up, has anyone suspected schadd much this game? I feel he has been very present, but not really much in opposition with anyone.

Yes, I agree with this.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 01:01:37 pm
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.

Well you said you didn't think Eevee was likely to be the SK, which I think doesn't make him the best lynch right now.
So you think schadd is the SK? Why?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 01:12:05 pm
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.

Well you said you didn't think Eevee was likely to be the SK, which I think doesn't make him the best lynch right now.
So you think schadd is the SK? Why?

What I meant is we should lynch someone who has some likelihood to be either SK or mafia, not that we should specifically try to lynch the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 01:17:41 pm
has anyone suspected schadd much this game? I feel he has been very present, but not really much in opposition with anyone.
Oh! I have! Never really got much going though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on May 01, 2017, 03:30:45 pm
Vote count 2.5
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
kkrieg (2): gkrieg13, 2,71828.....
schadd (1): Robz888
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 01, 2017, 03:39:35 pm
kkrieg is where it is at people!  Just reread her D1, and her regard to the mcmc wagon!  I may just post those posts here in a bit for ease of rereading.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 03:52:53 pm
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.

Well you said you didn't think Eevee was likely to be the SK, which I think doesn't make him the best lynch right now.
So you think schadd is the SK? Why?

What I meant is we should lynch someone who has some likelihood to be either SK or mafia, not that we should specifically try to lynch the SK.

I think we should lynch the player who is most likely to flip scum, no matter the actual role. If someone is 90% mafia and 0% SK; that's completely fine.

Still not sure why schadd is a thing
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 04:12:31 pm
In particular I'm confused about Robz, who wanted some attention on Eevee and who's currently looking for an alternative lynch.

If the conclusion of your Eevee read was "Eevee is suspicious" than I misread it.
I suppose you did. Not sure how ou could read that and conclude otherwise.

Well you said you didn't think Eevee was likely to be the SK, which I think doesn't make him the best lynch right now.
So you think schadd is the SK? Why?

What I meant is we should lynch someone who has some likelihood to be either SK or mafia, not that we should specifically try to lynch the SK.

I think we should lynch the player who is most likely to flip scum, no matter the actual role. If someone is 90% mafia and 0% SK; that's completely fine.

Still not sure why schadd is a thing

If someone else is maybe 50% likely to flip mafia and 45% likely to flip SK, we should lynch that person, no?  I'm absolutely the worst at math, though.

Schadd is a thing for the exact reason Eevee said.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 01, 2017, 04:19:06 pm

I thought you're voting for him because you think he's scummy:
[/quote]

I do think he's scummy I'm just not confident about it. Also hadn't thought about Scadd at all
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 01, 2017, 04:19:20 pm
Quote fail
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 04:22:22 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 04:23:46 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 01, 2017, 04:31:18 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
If I ever play mafia and am scum, I sure hope I play a better game than whatever game I'm playing now as town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on May 01, 2017, 04:31:28 pm
Ok I'm all caught up now. I'm pretty confident TWM is town. I think Robz is town too for second guessing himself on TWM's lynch and unvoting. Town!Robz second guesses himself a lot I think. schadd I can't read whatsoever. I'd like to see which posts gkrieg is referring to in terms of kkrieg's interactions with mcmc. Feeling less sure about faust but I'll keep my vote there for now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 04:32:44 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 01, 2017, 04:35:10 pm
If someone else is maybe 50% likely to flip mafia and 45% likely to flip SK, we should lynch that person, no?  I'm absolutely the worst at math, though.

Schadd is a thing for the exact reason Eevee said.
True.

Yet the evidence on Eevee makes him significantly more likely to be scum than someone could be because they're "very present, yet not in opposition to anyone".
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 04:35:31 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Sweet, thanks! Hey wait...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 05:07:00 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
You most certainly are. But we were talking specifically about people who had just started receiving suspicion today (Eevee and schadd). You didn't fall into that group as no one wants to talk about you except for yourself apparently.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 01, 2017, 07:16:50 pm
schadd I think might be worth looking at more tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Probably same with Eevee.

Am I not worth looking at tomorrow, from your perspective? I'm actually baffled to be receiving so little suspicion. I don't know it means.

It arguably points to newbie scum, I suppose. Might push me to vote kkrieg.
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Yeah, until D3/D4 rolls around. Once Robz figures (or thinks he has figured) things out he becomes quite active and useful
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 01, 2017, 08:01:48 pm
Keep in mind it's his birthday, I don't know if he'll be around. Are we really comfortable lynching him without a claim? I mean, I would rather lynch him than get lynched myself, but objectively, I don't know if that's the smartest thing,

I am sort of inclined to go after one of the mcmc pile-on ers. But maybe avoiding mcmc's wagon was the safest thing for scum to do.

This just feels like genuinely busy mcmc to me, him actually being what he says makes a lot of sense. The problem is I don't have a great alternative candidate...

I mean if all we can do is lynch mcmc or no one, I will vote for mcmc befoere I go to sleep in about 2 hrs
I agree with this.

hey gkrieg I know you're online what do you think about awaclus?

how about you talk about why you are voting awaclus pleeeeez

He's a person who isn't a townread.

Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1

Ok, so these are the posts that I feel pushed from mcmc to Andrew.  I think Robz is pretty solidly partnery, and the fact that kkrieg didn't trust my reads is a little shady.  I really think she would go to the effort to at least tell me why mcmcsalot was townie, instead of just telling me why she thought Awaclus was scummy.  The reasoning to stay on the Awa wagon are SUPER weak.  Like none of them are scummy at all. 

The fact that she stayed on Awaclus instead of switching to mcmcsalot with those reasons (and not giving reasons why mcmc was townier than Awa) is really scummy from her.  She generally trusts me a lot more in social deduction games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 08:27:29 pm
I have a hard time trusting this in completion as you didn't include my posts.

My post 482:

Well shit, now this feels mislynchy.

And post 497:

I am here, ish. I like mcmcsalot more than Andrew and 2.7. But I am not as enamored as I was. Awaclus was a mcmcsalot pile oner.

Are right between the posts of Robz and kkrieg (475-528)

Also just happened to see this right after my 482 from schadd:

it does, but mcmc is a good scum player

schadd isn't mcmc's partner. He isn't going to be talking me into a lynch right after I express an opinion that I want to avoid it and then further tries to put the brakes on the Awaclus wagon:

i mean, someone that makes a point of obscuring his reasoning shouldn't be the d1 lynch because of his shoddy reasoning. what do we have on him?

Sorry I missed this before, but I am putting schadd up there along with 2.7 and gkrieg of not mcmc's partner. (This conclusion totally overrode the original intent of this post, but I guess it was worth it).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 01, 2017, 08:36:15 pm
I didn't include your posts because I was trying to make people go back and reread the end of the day themselves. 

Your post also says nothing about the conclusions I made.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 01, 2017, 09:06:37 pm
I didn't include your posts because I was trying to make people go back and reread the end of the day themselves. 

Your post also says nothing about the conclusions I made.

Yeah, not sure what TWM was trying to prove, the conclusion of the matter is that everyone should be voting kkrieg, nor that TWM is town or scum (at least that's what I got)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 09:17:03 pm
I didn't include your posts because I was trying to make people go back and reread the end of the day themselves. 

Your post also says nothing about the conclusions I made.
Then I misunderstood your intent. I just read what you had put down and knew there were somethings that were missing from it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 09:21:17 pm
I guess I don't love that I am relying on your understanding of kkrieg, which I don't have, to base much of this read. But, then again, I think kkrieg could easily state that it wasn't a fair assessment of you (and probably not something that you would want to do anyways to maintain marital harmony).

So yeah. I am still in the lynching kkrieg isn't a bad idea camp, but I don't completely share your complete confidence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 01, 2017, 11:15:25 pm
Alright, Vote: Kkrieg. Gkrieg telling us to vote for her matters, and also, she's a relative newbie who might have shot mcmc (as SK), but could also be a mcmc partner.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 01, 2017, 11:22:47 pm
vote: kkrieg

That should be L-1
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:06:42 am
Also now that newbie mafia is over, I can say that she looks a lot different here than she did there.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:11:45 am
how so
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:14:39 am
guys I was literally making gkrieg dinner and cookies while he was throwing me under the bus haha.


I've tried not to be too defensive because I really didn't think people would want to lynch me today. I disagree with gkrieg; I think I am playing similarly to the last game. Both games I have had nothing interesting to say and no strong reads at the beginning of the game. I need more time and less people to keep track of before being confident in my reads.


I may actually be a good town lynch (if that's a thing) to reveal gkrieg as scummy (or whatever not town role he is).


What do you guys want me to do? At what point do you want me to claim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:16:05 am
Even by D2, you had some pretty strong reads in either direction. 

In this game, I haven't seen very much at all from you in way of reads.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:17:08 am
guys I was literally making gkrieg dinner and cookies while he was throwing me under the bus haha.


I've tried not to be too defensive because I really didn't think people would want to lynch me today. I disagree with gkrieg; I think I am playing similarly to the last game. Both games I have had nothing interesting to say and no strong reads at the beginning of the game. I need more time and less people to keep track of before being confident in my reads.


I may actually be a good town lynch (if that's a thing) to reveal gkrieg as scummy (or whatever not town role he is).


What do you guys want me to do? At what point do you want me to claim?

Also are you saying I'm scummy for finding you scummy?  What about the other points in my post above about you not wanting to switch your vote from Awaclus to mcmcsalot?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:17:49 am
Even by D2, you had some pretty strong reads in either direction. 

In this game, I haven't seen very much at all from you in way of reads.
This game is much more complicated in setup than the newbie game. That makes it hard for me to follow all the role and relationship possibilities.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:18:15 am
fake hammer: kkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:18:52 am
I also know that you had many interesting things to say last time, and did much more rereading and such after LaLight was killed to find the other scum.  It seems like you aren't really trying as hard this game.

And part of it is really the fact that you wouldn't sheep me onto scum D1.  I think you would've as town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:19:22 am
Even by D2, you had some pretty strong reads in either direction. 

In this game, I haven't seen very much at all from you in way of reads.
This game is much more complicated in setup than the newbie game. That makes it hard for me to follow all the role and relationship possibilities.

But even then you should still have reads on people.  Even your Awaclus vote was pretty weak.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:19:33 am
fake hammer: kkrieg
But for real please don't hammer. Is anyone interested in me claiming?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:20:59 am
forreal hammer: kkrieg


not especially interested, no
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:21:35 am
Even by D2, you had some pretty strong reads in either direction. 

In this game, I haven't seen very much at all from you in way of reads.
This game is much more complicated in setup than the newbie game. That makes it hard for me to follow all the role and relationship possibilities.

But even then you should still have reads on people.  Even your Awaclus vote was pretty weak.
It was pretty weak. I think I even said that when I listed my reasons.

guys I was literally making gkrieg dinner and cookies while he was throwing me under the bus haha.


I've tried not to be too defensive because I really didn't think people would want to lynch me today. I disagree with gkrieg; I think I am playing similarly to the last game. Both games I have had nothing interesting to say and no strong reads at the beginning of the game. I need more time and less people to keep track of before being confident in my reads.


I may actually be a good town lynch (if that's a thing) to reveal gkrieg as scummy (or whatever not town role he is).


What do you guys want me to do? At what point do you want me to claim?

Also are you saying I'm scummy for finding you scummy?  What about the other points in my post above about you not wanting to switch your vote from Awaclus to mcmcsalot?
I believed mcmcs claim as vanilla town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:21:38 am
Also, now that newbie mafia is over, my interaction with TWM in that game is heavily influencing my town read on TWM in this game
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:22:34 am
how so
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:23:03 am
fake hammer: kkrieg
But for real please don't hammer. Is anyone interested in me claiming?

What, you have a fake claim all ready just waiting for someone to ask you to claim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:24:10 am
forreal hammer: kkrieg


not especially interested, no
That's fine; I am interested in me claiming.

fake hammer: kkrieg
But for real please don't hammer. Is anyone interested in me claiming?

What, you have a fake claim all ready just waiting for someone to ask you to claim?
No I actually thought my role was really cool and want to tell everyone about it.

I am the one shot commuter.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:26:03 am
kool
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:26:40 am
kool

Unvote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:27:23 am
gut feel vote: Awalcus

I'm probably a lurker right now huh?
Faust seems fairly towny which makes me want to jump on the e train.

I don't have any strong scum reads, but I don't think Robz is.

I'd be ok with Awaclus or Andrew

Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1

Oh go away for a little bit.

You are obviously going to be able to win any argument that I put at you because you are better at twisting words and using select quotes and appealing to emotions in a way that people still like you at the end of it.

So I am not even going to try and get frustrated with you. I'll put up some stuff later today (today as in today in this game by the way, like Saturday or Sunday) as long as I don't get lynched.

Then you can just totally demolish it and get everyone to ignore it.

Uh I'm really surprised you are so touchy about this. Say why doing what you did D 1 is townie. Also I know kkrieg was online and could've voted mcmcsalot. vote: kkrieg
Yea I won't deny that. I could have switched my vote but I honestly thought Awaclus was scummier than mcmc.

Leaning toward a TWM vote right now.

Does town win if the SK is still alive?

I think gkrieg could be scummy. He is pretty accurate at reading me IRL. I think he knows I'm not scum and yet he's voting for me. Granted I am crap at reading gkrieg so you never know.


I think we would keep a lower profile.

I kinda agree with this. I think scum has reason to either lay low (like e, maybe eevee) or be super defensive (like twm)

Do you think I am scummy? If you do, you should vote for me. Commit to that read.
Okkkkkk. Vote: TWM.
L-1 I believe.

I'm sort of losing confidence in either TWM or kkrieg flipping scum. I don't know, TWM's righteous indignation about being suspected is all of a sudden feeling more townie to me. And when I called kkrieg out for not voting TWM yet, her reaction seemed pretty townie to me.

But I don't what the next best option would be.
I honestly don't feel great about TWM vote. I wasn't voting him originally because I think voting scum is better than having the attitude of "voting anyone as long as it isn't me." But I'm currently voting him because we need to lynch someone to get this game moving.

What are some scummy points on schadd?

So here are all of kkrieg's posts that have some sort of read in them (I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything).  She has 34 posts this game, and if you look at these, they are very flimsy reads.  She uses the words leaning and phrases like "yea I won't deny that".  Those are hedgy posts.

And that post for reasons of Awaclus over mcmcsalot is just super weak. 

Sorry babe, you're scum! :)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:28:14 am
ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:28:22 am
The question that obviously follows is of you commuted or not, but I really don't think you should answer that question. Although it could be extremely relevant due to the no kill last night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:29:25 am
She uses the words leaning and phrases like "yea I won't deny that".  Those are hedgy posts.


"Yea I won't deny that" is a much townier response than "everything you say about me is completely wrong"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:29:38 am
Her claim is easily counterclaimed, so I am willing to believe it until such a counter
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:29:59 am
if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:30:06 am
hmmmmm.  unvote until a counterclaim I guess. 

7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
or
1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer

then.  If you are a PR not in that list, you may want to consider claiming.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:30:38 am
The question that obviously follows is of you commuted or not, but I really don't think you should answer that question. Although it could be extremely relevant due to the no kill last night.

Uh, I think this should never be claimed.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:31:12 am
if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:33:51 am
didn't commute => kill prevented by other means; only other protective to coexist is jk (and traitor rb i guess but let's hesitantly call that unlikely)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 12:35:49 am
Okay unvote

So gkrieg was hilariously wrong about kkrieg. But this doesn't actually make me suspicious of gkrieg, who has been hilariously wrong (as town) a lot in the games I've played with him recently.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:37:36 am
he is often hilariously right
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:37:44 am
if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:38:16 am
Okay unvote

So gkrieg was hilariously wrong about kkrieg. But this doesn't actually make me suspicious of gkrieg, who has been hilariously wrong (as town) a lot in the games I've played with him recently.

vote: Robz

This is what Dylan did to me in the game he was scum.  Tried to make me doubt my reads.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:38:22 am
With that, I fairly certain I will jump back over to voting faust, but will give it some time and let everyone have a chance to post
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:38:34 am

if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
i.e. we know which setup it is
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:39:08 am
With that, I fairly certain I will jump back over to voting faust, but will give it some time and let everyone have a chance to post

Or you could read Robz and then vote for him.  My first kkrieg post has a lot of stuff about Robz and his EoD with mcmcsalot.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:39:27 am

if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
i.e. we know which setup it is

...  How, and which setup?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:40:33 am
if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?

Only confirmed to scum, goon cop, or Jailkeeper.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 12:41:14 am
Okay unvote

So gkrieg was hilariously wrong about kkrieg. But this doesn't actually make me suspicious of gkrieg, who has been hilariously wrong (as town) a lot in the games I've played with him recently.

vote: Robz

This is what Dylan did to me in the game he was scum.  Tried to make me doubt my reads.

I actually didn't doubt your read that much, until your read was proven to be wrong.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:42:07 am
With that, I fairly certain I will jump back over to voting faust, but will give it some time and let everyone have a chance to post

Or you could read Robz and then vote for him.  My first kkrieg post has a lot of stuff about Robz and his EoD with mcmcsalot.

I could see this as well. But yeah, I would have to go back and reread
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 12:43:37 am
But gkrieg WAS wrong kkrieg. I am not so much doubting gkrieg's read as I am acknowledging that it wad wrong. And also, why am I responsible for Dylan? I don't understand.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:43:54 am

if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
i.e. we know which setup it is

...  How, and which setup?
didn't commute => kill prevented by other means; only other protective to coexist is jk (and traitor rb i guess but let's hesitantly call that unlikely)
if she didn't commute it is very likely column 3
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 12:45:56 am
i don't really think that merits her claiming whether she did though
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 12:47:04 am
She should absolutely not claim whether she commuted.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:50:41 am
Not planning on letting you all know if I did or not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:50:55 am

if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

??  How confirmed?
i.e. we know which setup it is

...  How, and which setup?
didn't commute => kill prevented by other means; only other protective to coexist is jk (and traitor rb i guess but let's hesitantly call that unlikely)
if she didn't commute it is very likely column 3

Also scum shooting SK or traitor.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:52:03 am
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Even though tonight is still Monday for me (yay west coast) Early Wednesday morning is only like 30 hours away.

I will take a serious look at Robz tomorrow, but still really like a faust lynch.

I think gkrieg is town due to his tunnelling of kkrieg, and schadd slightly scummier for his "we know the setup now" thing
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:52:58 am
I'm keeping my vote on TWM for now.
I want to reread more but Robz is another I'd be ok voting for.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 12:54:17 am
I think gkrieg is town due to his tunnelling of kkrieg, and schadd slightly scummier for his "we know the setup now" thing
I think that is a good point on gkrieg. I am just personally surprised he was (maybe possibly genuinely) wrong on my read.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 12:54:25 am
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Even though tonight is still Monday for me (yay west coast) Early Wednesday morning is only like 30 hours away.

I will take a serious look at Robz tomorrow, but still really like a faust lynch.

I think gkrieg is town due to his tunnelling of kkrieg, and schadd slightly scummier for his "we know the setup now" thing

Ya, I won't be awake for deadline, even though I'm on the west coast.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 12:54:36 am
I would lynch TWM, I guess, or schadd. Perhaps I'd lynch Eevee. In fact, sure, I'd lynch Eevee.

I'm just not a fan of this faust wagon. Gkrieg and kkrieg both seem like definitely town. Who does that leave? Andrew and 2.7, I'm leaning townier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 12:56:19 am
I think gkrieg is town due to his tunnelling of kkrieg, and schadd slightly scummier for his "we know the setup now" thing
I think that is a good point on gkrieg. I am just personally surprised he was (maybe possibly genuinely) wrong on my read.

I find that it is hard to fake being just plain wrong as scum. Assuming we don't get a counterclaim, then he was just that. Just plain wrong. And so was I, but I won't go calling myself am IC (yet).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 01:00:09 am
hard to fake, maybe, but something scum actively doesn't want to do, probably yes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 01:00:58 am
i mean you're kind of assuming scum is incapable of making cases on people, and i'm pretty sure i did that way back when
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 03:24:33 am
I'm not sure how much this tells us about gkrieg. kkrieg would have been an easy lynch to push for scum, but it also makes sense for town!gkrieg - that's why it whould have been so easy.

Can we lynch TWM now?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 03:41:46 am
I should do that reads list schadd asked for. Will include kkrieg's pre-claim position for completeness.

Since SK and mafia reads are substantially different, I will give them separately. Scores will be x / y where x and y are number between 0 and 10. 10 means definitely [mafia for X/SK for y], 5 means neutral, 0 means definitely not that. Maybe it would make sense to include a separate Traitor category. Actually, with kkrieg's claim, we know that either Traitor knows Mafia or they don't know about each other. I don't think I will go through the trouble of separating these.

Well, here we go!

Robz888 - 4 / 7 [slightly unlikely to be mafia, mostly due to activity level and content, which I think would be higher then. It's good for an SK trying to stay under the radar a bit and to not get shot. Also mcmc at least has a connection to Robz, so that kill would make some sense.]
The_Wine_Merchant - 3 / 9 [I kinda doubt that mcmc and TWM would go for hard bussing. Reasons for being SK have been explained.]
schadd - 6 / 2 [Uncomfortable position for an SK - exposed and both likely to get lynched and nightkilled. As scum I could see him doing that more.]
Eevee - 8 / 2 [See Eevee reread; the way he treats the mcmc wagon is extremely suspicious, plus showing no interest to investigate that wagon today. I don't think SK!Eevee shoots mcmc.]
gkrieg13 - 3 / 4 [Overall townie read, but nothing stands out to make him obvtown. D1 suggests he's not mcmc's partner.]
AndrewisFTTW - 5 / 4 [Mostly neutral. Was slightly scummy on mcmc IIRC, but then later it seemed he didn't think about the setup at all, which he would have done as scum and as the SK.]
2.71828..... -  e / e ... no, just kidding. Similar though, maybe 4 / 4 [I cannot really speak to him, I think I need to reread. He's made a townie impression, but that's just based on tone.]
kkrieg - 6 / 7 [I thought that she had some kind of role without a partner. SK or Traitor made sense. Now she's town unless we get a counterclaim, which I sort of doubt.]
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on May 02, 2017, 04:32:55 am
Vote count 2.6
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (3): schadd, 2,71828....., Robz888

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 24ish hours
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 05:16:39 am
hmmmmm.  unvote until a counterclaim I guess. 

7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
or
1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer

then.  If you are a PR not in that list, you may want to consider claiming.
Quick double-check since I didn't see anyone do that:

The remaining SK setup is:

6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer

Which has a Psychologist that the two setups above don't have. So any Psychologists and 1-shot Commuters need to come out and claim now. I don't think it will happen, but if it does, it should happen now, not some time at LyLo.

There is a conspiracy theory in which there is no SK and scum!mcmc urges his partner kkrieg to shoot him to make her claim more believable. That would require mafia to know that there is no SK, because otherwise um it would be crazy foolhardy. Setups in which this is possible: Mafia has 1-shot investigation immune or 2-shot JOAT. 2-shot JOAT has an actual Commuter, 1-shot Investigation Immune can have a Pschyologist who can counterclaim Commuter. Okay, it's not possible.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 07:52:43 am
Well back to Vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 08:01:59 am
faust's reads above are crap. And not even just the one on me. His read on schadd is just bad.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 08:11:36 am
faust's reads above are crap. And not even just the one on me. His read on schadd is just bad.
Your read is bad!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 08:27:10 am
faust's reads above are crap. And not even just the one on me. His read on schadd is just bad.
Your read is bad!
Probably.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 08:29:50 am
Wanna lynch Eevee? Just checking. I don't want to be the default lynch if we don't manage to lynch you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 08:30:25 am
Why is Andrew even voting for me? I think there was a reason somewhere...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 08:30:51 am
Wanna lynch Eevee? Just checking. I don't want to be the default lynch if we don't manage to lynch you.
Probably not today
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 08:31:11 am
Why is Andrew even voting for me? I think there was a reason somewhere...
He liked my reasons for voting you I think
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 08:45:15 am
Why is Andrew even voting for me? I think there was a reason somewhere...
He liked my reasons for voting you I think
I think I forgot your reasons too. I only remember what e has said about SK hunting, but I don't think that was your angle.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 08:56:40 am
I found Andrew's reasons at least:

faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.

Which I think I addressed but clearly not in a manner that was sufficiently convincing.

I get that the thing is appealing if Andrew truly thinks I look the same way he does as scum. But we are different people, and pointing out edge cases is certainly not a scum tell for me.

I don't really get how pushing TWM hard is scummy. I think he's scum, so I push him. Applying pressure hopefully tells me even more about him. Scum has no reason to expose themselves like this; it's reasonable enough to think that the SK, after killing a scum early, would try to gun for town next; that's actually a plus for the mafia. The only reason for scum to push is to divert attention, and what I've been doing has certainly not achieved that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 10:19:33 am
Did my Robz reread, and I think he is town.  There is a chance that he could be the SK, but I don't think so.  The biggest aspect of Robz game that makes me think he is town is his general lack of reads on D1.  As scum in M88 he was the first to vote on 3 different wagons, garnering votes on all of them and really working the D1 lynch.

In this game we have this:
This just feels like genuinely busy mcmc to me, him actually being what he says makes a lot of sense. The problem is I don't have a great alternative candidate...

He knows who he doesn't want to lynch, but has nothing to offer in exchange.  This is slightly different than

I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

But it almost falls in the same category. 

Either way, I don't think that Robz is scum here
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 10:22:16 am
With that being said, this is where I am at:

Town: e, kkrieg
Town reads: Robz, gkrieg, TWM
Nullish reads: Eevee, schadd, Andrew
Scum reads: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 10:22:24 am
I associate less active Eevee with scum!Eevee, which is I think what's tipping me toward thinking Eevee is scum all of a sudden. I understand it's a busy time for him IRL though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on May 02, 2017, 10:34:15 am
I found Andrew's reasons at least:

faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.

Which I think I addressed but clearly not in a manner that was sufficiently convincing.

I get that the thing is appealing if Andrew truly thinks I look the same way he does as scum. But we are different people, and pointing out edge cases is certainly not a scum tell for me.

I don't really get how pushing TWM hard is scummy. I think he's scum, so I push him. Applying pressure hopefully tells me even more about him. Scum has no reason to expose themselves like this; it's reasonable enough to think that the SK, after killing a scum early, would try to gun for town next; that's actually a plus for the mafia. The only reason for scum to push is to divert attention, and what I've been doing has certainly not achieved that.

Yeah well, it's more of a gut read right now. But I don't see TWM killing mcmc last night. I do see you doing it and then blaming TWM for it, however.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 10:39:30 am
Eevee reread.  I think he is scum.  There are two different points I have

1) The mcmc point
weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?

Oh ma less than 24 hours.

Totally totally no idea who to vote for. Weekend deadlines are bad for town!

Granted, these are a couple days apart and reads develop, and unfortunately Eevee never posted after the mcmc wagon took off (no matter how short-lived it was), but going from mcmc being your only scum read to not having any clue who to lynch is slightly suspicious

2)  The "call me scum" point
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.

just seems weird you'd bring it up. my two leading causes of daytime death are buddying and hedginess, someone who wouldn't mind seeing me lynched might want to drop those buzzwords around me hoping someone else starts painting me scummy for them. kind of like trying to get two people to fight while you slowly walk away to watch from afar.

(going to sleep now!)

Both of these posts have eevee explaining things about his playstyle that he might do as scum.  Or be accused of doing and get lynched for it as town.  Instructing people on how they should go after him if they want to lynch him.  I think this is the stronger of the two points against eevee.

Lets see how it goes

vote: eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 10:52:53 am
Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 10:58:18 am
I would rather Vote: Robz, but vote: faust is still preferable
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on May 02, 2017, 11:00:39 am
Vote count 2.7
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (2): 2,71828....., Robz888
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 15 hours
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 11:09:36 am
Vote: Eevee
How exactly did e's post convince you to this vote in a way that mine did not? And whatever happened to "let's lynch the SK, which Eevee is not"?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 11:10:52 am
I found Andrew's reasons at least:

faust reminds me of me as scum, constantly reminding everyone of possible edge cases and really pushing TWM and at the very least hinting that everything he says is scummy. Whether that's scum indicative or not of faust I don't know, but it reads scum to me.

Which I think I addressed but clearly not in a manner that was sufficiently convincing.

I get that the thing is appealing if Andrew truly thinks I look the same way he does as scum. But we are different people, and pointing out edge cases is certainly not a scum tell for me.

I don't really get how pushing TWM hard is scummy. I think he's scum, so I push him. Applying pressure hopefully tells me even more about him. Scum has no reason to expose themselves like this; it's reasonable enough to think that the SK, after killing a scum early, would try to gun for town next; that's actually a plus for the mafia. The only reason for scum to push is to divert attention, and what I've been doing has certainly not achieved that.

Yeah well, it's more of a gut read right now. But I don't see TWM killing mcmc last night. I do see you doing it and then blaming TWM for it, however.
Really?

Well I think we never have been scum together, so fair enough. Know that I would never, and I also explained why the SK framing TWM makes no sense.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 11:17:11 am
Fine I'll put together a whole Robz case.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 11:18:19 am
I think Eevee is the only one left to post after the claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 11:18:57 am
Vote: Eevee
How exactly did e's post convince you to this vote in a way that mine did not? And whatever happened to "let's lynch the SK, which Eevee is not"?

Well, now we don't have kkrieg as a lynch option, so Eevee is automatically more appealing. And, for reasons they might not actually indicate anything, I'm feeling more like he's scum--he's been gone longer now, and as I said, low-participation Eevee is scum Eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 11:24:06 am
Vote: Eevee
How exactly did e's post convince you to this vote in a way that mine did not? And whatever happened to "let's lynch the SK, which Eevee is not"?

Well, now we don't have kkrieg as a lynch option, so Eevee is automatically more appealing. And, for reasons they might not actually indicate anything, I'm feeling more like he's scum--he's been gone longer now, and as I said, low-participation Eevee is scum Eevee.
Would you reconsider TWM?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 11:25:47 am
I can be around for the deadline btw, but not sure how much more I will be able to post tonight. Probably some, but I'm not hyper-active.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 11:28:52 am
Vote: Eevee
How exactly did e's post convince you to this vote in a way that mine did not? And whatever happened to "let's lynch the SK, which Eevee is not"?

Well, now we don't have kkrieg as a lynch option, so Eevee is automatically more appealing. And, for reasons they might not actually indicate anything, I'm feeling more like he's scum--he's been gone longer now, and as I said, low-participation Eevee is scum Eevee.
Would you reconsider TWM?

Yes... I just think he stood up to the wagon pretty well, and is not generally behaving like his scum self from previous games. But yes, I would.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 11:30:47 am
Maybe I should reread a scum game of his. But that won't happen pre-deadline. Still, SK is different from other scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 11:39:06 am
Maybe I should reread a scum game of his. But that won't happen pre-deadline. Still, SK is different from other scum.
And again, I say that if I were SK I would be playing this completely differently. I certainly wouldn't have come out after Night 1 basically shouting, "Hey I am solidly town!" Even if that were true, that is pretty much waving a flag and saying, "hey mafia make sure you kill me tonight!" SK doesn't want to do that.

Now, I was wrong about how townie I thought I was, but I honestly felt like I was on the townier side. SK isn't going to draw attention to that for himself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 12:46:42 pm
Oh noo, I've been a bad bad townie. Sorry guys, I haven't been engaged enough with the game lately. Forgetting all my reads too, makes catching up even less fun.

First of all, no counterclaim from me. In the end the outcome with kkrieg seems pretty good for us actually.

@e
I remember thinking mcmc was scummy for saying weird is scummy, sort of seemed he was trying throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks.. and then I forgot. I wasn't there for the mcmc wagon, but I don't know what I would have done.

What do you mean with the second point? I wasn't instructing schadd how to go about suspecting me, I was calling him scummy for potentially trying to be subtle about getting me lynched. What's the scum narrative you are suggesting?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 12:47:07 pm
Kkrieg is confirmed town now, right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 12:49:12 pm
I don't feel great about lynching Robz (eh, same read than mcmc last night, I don't have a reason to be against this lynch but I've seen no reason to suspect him other than "He is Robz and he is still alive") or faust (although he has been more and more aggressive as the leader (and main scumhunter!), which I guess is reading scummier to me because it could be a disguise for pushing towny lynches). Still would like TWM, but I don't know if that's happening anymore.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 12:49:49 pm
What about schadd? The post e quoted made me realize my earlier exchanges with him. I could vote for schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 02, 2017, 01:06:05 pm
Kkrieg is confirmed town now, right?

I would say so since we don't have counter claims
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 01:17:23 pm
Boy does that sound like town Eevee to me. Unvote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 01:18:22 pm
What about schadd? The post e quoted made me realize my earlier exchanges with him. I could vote for schadd.

I would also go schadd, but I tried it earlier and no one supported it.

Vote: TWM, I guess, because that's the best wagon option.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 01:23:16 pm
That is L-1. I guess I should say that if I were scum I would have counterclaimed kkrieg. Might still have ended up with me being the lynch, but at least it would have given me a chance of survival for at least the day. As once she claimed it became pretty apparent I was going to be the lynch.

That I didn't should at the least raise some eyebrows, but I don't really expect this to be a reason why people won't vote for me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 01:23:42 pm
The kkrieg wagon at peak:

gkrieg, e, Robz, TWM

kkrieg would have been a good lynch for scum. I would think that mafia is on here somewhere, but all of these players are non-mafia reads for. So probably my reads are off.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 01:24:30 pm
That is L-1. I guess I should say that if I were scum I would have counterclaimed kkrieg. Might still have ended up with me being the lynch, but at least it would have given me a chance of survival for at least the day. As once she claimed it became pretty apparent I was going to be the lynch.
As the SK you wouldn't because one day doesn't help you.

But yes, it makes you less likely to be mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 01:25:05 pm
That is L-1. I guess I should say that if I were scum I would have counterclaimed kkrieg. Might still have ended up with me being the lynch, but at least it would have given me a chance of survival for at least the day. As once she claimed it became pretty apparent I was going to be the lynch.
As the SK you wouldn't because one day doesn't help you.
Yes. That is a fair point.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 01:26:54 pm
Out of Robz/gkrieg/e, Robz is probably the mafia-est.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 01:31:00 pm
Out of Robz/gkrieg/e, Robz is probably the mafia-est.
Agreed.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 01:32:30 pm
fake hammer etc.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 01:38:21 pm
twm, how does this game feel different/similar to nm10?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 01:48:47 pm
twm, how does this game feel different/similar to nm10?
Um. Very different.

More wagons, less RR-Jake distractions. I didn't claim a PR early Day 2. Scum died on Night 1. I mean they are pretty much completely different games.

I do think that the feel of the L-1 wagon on me in NM10 was somewhat similar to the L-1 wagon on me in this game. I feel that LaLight's comments in his scum QT could be applied to what mafia is probably thinking about me this game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 01:53:30 pm
how about, like, emotionally


[dr phil]and how does that make you feel[/dr phil]
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 02:00:15 pm
how about, like, emotionally


[dr phil]and how does that make you feel[/dr phil]
I feel good.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 02:01:14 pm
in a special way?


in this game or because of the town win?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 02:08:50 pm
in a special way?


in this game or because of the town win?
I feel like you are making me feel special.

The town win was nice because I realized that even if I play poorly the game isn't doomed, cause I sucked it up pretty bad in that game aside from one good PR choice.

Here I am somewhat resigned to my fate of being lynched. But I think town is in an opportunity to move past it and recapture some of the momentum. Earlier I was frustrated and then embarrassed. But now, I am just good.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 02:12:06 pm
that might be the morphine
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 02:13:26 pm
who would you shoot right now if you had a day vigilante
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on May 02, 2017, 02:15:05 pm
Out of Robz/gkrieg/e, Robz is probably the mafia-est.
Agreed.

I disagree. I think Robz going with the flow and not being committed to one lynch is pretty towny of him. Out of those three I find gkrieg the scummiest. faust why did you feel compelled to single those three people out?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 02:17:30 pm
who would you shoot right now if you had a day vigilante
I wouldn't. At least not right now in the game state or day state.

Well that isn't true. Would I publicly post that I had performed a day vig? And then become IC as a result? That would be worth it there alone to shoot someone, instead of just getting lynched. In that case? Probably faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 02:18:46 pm
Out of Robz/gkrieg/e, Robz is probably the mafia-est.
Agreed.

I disagree. I think Robz going with the flow and not being committed to one lynch is pretty towny of him. Out of those three I find gkrieg the scummiest. faust why did you feel compelled to single those three people out?
If you look at the mcmc wagon and how it formed and how it was responded to gkrieg and e come out super townie. This is why Robz is the mafia-est.

He singled them out because they were the kkrieg wagon + me and faust doesn't think I am super likely to be mcmc's partner due to heavy bussing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 02:28:44 pm
But they still could be SK or Traitor (in the one scenario where traitor doesn't know who mafia is). If we are in the other scenario where Traitor knows things, then they are unlikely to be traitors as well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 02:32:29 pm
Out of Robz/gkrieg/e, Robz is probably the mafia-est.
Agreed.

I disagree. I think Robz going with the flow and not being committed to one lynch is pretty towny of him. Out of those three I find gkrieg the scummiest. faust why did you feel compelled to single those three people out?

How am I the scummiest of those three?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on May 02, 2017, 02:55:25 pm
Vote count 2.8
The_Wine_Merchant (4): faust, Eevee, kkrieg, Robz888
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 13 hours
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 03:05:57 pm
So schadd are you going to vote for me? 2.7, gkrieg and Andrew I don't think are (although I think 2.7 would to get a lynch through, and I now respect that). If you aren't then my wagon needs to dissipate and go elsewhere.

So what is your decision?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 03:07:21 pm
To me the only alternative to TWM is schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 03:12:45 pm
To me the only alternative to TWM is schadd.
Well thanks for making his decision that much easier. I really don't think this was the optimal time to say that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 03:12:54 pm
vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 03:19:49 pm
I think it was fine.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 03:57:27 pm

So schadd are you going to vote for me? 2.7, gkrieg and Andrew I don't think are (although I think 2.7 would to get a lynch through, and I now respect that). If you aren't then my wagon needs to dissipate and go elsewhere.

So what is your decision?
i have strong nagging sensations that you are both town and scum.


you're vt, presumably?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 04:01:01 pm
game-related sigging is yucky but my current stance is that choosing to remove/not remove it is also yucky
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: kkrieg on May 02, 2017, 04:24:04 pm
The kkrieg wagon at peak:

gkrieg, e, Robz, TWM

kkrieg would have been a good lynch for scum. I would think that mafia is on here somewhere, but all of these players are non-mafia reads for. So probably my reads are off.
Who was awake/ in a place with a reasonable time zone that could have hammered?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 04:41:37 pm
The kkrieg wagon at peak:

gkrieg, e, Robz, TWM

kkrieg would have been a good lynch for scum. I would think that mafia is on here somewhere, but all of these players are non-mafia reads for. So probably my reads are off.
Who was awake/ in a place with a reasonable time zone that could have hammered?
You claimed one hour after TWM put you at L-1. I don't think we can expect that scum would have hammered kkrieg if they weren't on the wagon already, there wasn't enough time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on May 02, 2017, 05:31:40 pm
Time starting to be an issue.  I can get up for the deadline, but not much before.

schadd, uhm.. if we can't get the TWM lynch through, my second preference of the people currently having votes on them would be you. And that's not meant as a godfather-type move! I just realized that the deadline is super close and people are unlikely to be around for it (again), earth is approaching rapidlyyy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:36:40 pm
you're vt, presumably?
I have declined to state that at this point. You are free to infer whatever you want.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 05:37:02 pm
Time starting to be an issue.  I can get up for the deadline, but not much before.

schadd, uhm.. if we can't get the TWM lynch through, my second preference of the people currently having votes on them would be you. And that's not meant as a godfather-type move! I just realized that the deadline is super close and people are unlikely to be around for it (again), earth is approaching rapidlyyy.

That's exactly what I said!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:37:51 pm
The kkrieg wagon at peak:

gkrieg, e, Robz, TWM

kkrieg would have been a good lynch for scum. I would think that mafia is on here somewhere, but all of these players are non-mafia reads for. So probably my reads are off.
Who was awake/ in a place with a reasonable time zone that could have hammered?
You claimed one hour after TWM put you at L-1. I don't think we can expect that scum would have hammered kkrieg if they weren't on the wagon already, there wasn't enough time.
And stupid to do so without claim, etc. the person who did that would be highly suspected the next day.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 05:38:12 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:39:10 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
I don't think schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. What do you say to that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 02, 2017, 05:41:39 pm
Going to sleep now; will be here half an hour before deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 05:42:36 pm
twm, do you think it is a fair assessment you've been more harsh at people pressuring you this game than in the newbie?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 05:44:57 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
I don't think schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. What do you say to that?

I would say: schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. Anyone could conceivably be mcmc's partner, except kkrieg. And Andrew is very unlikely, because of the slip.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:46:01 pm
twm, do you think it is a fair assessment you've been more harsh at people pressuring you this game than in the newbie?
Yes.

But again context. Newbie game was Day 1, which i would say was similar to today's Day 1, and then I was a claimed IC. You can't compare Day 2s because my situation is so different.

I wash pretty harsh to you and Jake/RR in newbie game but because of pressure, but vice versa.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:47:31 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
I don't think schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. What do you say to that?

I would say: schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. Anyone could conceivably be mcmc's partner, except kkrieg. And Andrew is very unlikely, because of the slip.
Ok. That was a bad choice of words. I think it highly unlikely that he is compared with others based off how he responded to the mcmc wagon and breakup. For that reason he isn't a great vote, but if it between him and me, I would go for it, but wouldn't be thrilled.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 05:49:23 pm
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
well it also so happens that leaving a bus through the emergency exit is your scum thing
do you know what i was referring to with this?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 02, 2017, 05:50:27 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
I don't think schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. What do you say to that?

I would say: schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. Anyone could conceivably be mcmc's partner, except kkrieg. And Andrew is very unlikely, because of the slip.
Ok. That was a bad choice of words. I think it highly unlikely that he is compared with others based off how he responded to the mcmc wagon and breakup. For that reason he isn't a great vote, but if it between him and me, I would go for it, but wouldn't be thrilled.

I will try to go back and look at it more carefully, but I'm not sure I'll have time before deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:51:47 pm
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
well it also so happens that leaving a bus through the emergency exit is your scum thing
do you know what i was referring to with this?
Sure. I did it twice in previous scum games.

Once with RR in your game and once with Andrew in the other. But neither time on Day 1?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:52:03 pm
Presumably we could get TWM to vote for schadd, but that's still just three of us, and no one else has expressed any interest in this lynch.

Someone willing to do schadd? Andrew? kkrieg?
I don't think schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. What do you say to that?

I would say: schadd can conceivably be mcmc's partner. Anyone could conceivably be mcmc's partner, except kkrieg. And Andrew is very unlikely, because of the slip.
Ok. That was a bad choice of words. I think it highly unlikely that he is compared with others based off how he responded to the mcmc wagon and breakup. For that reason he isn't a great vote, but if it between him and me, I would go for it, but wouldn't be thrilled.

I will try to go back and look at it more carefully, but I'm not sure I'll have time before deadline.

I'll go find my post.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 05:54:12 pm
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
well it also so happens that leaving a bus through the emergency exit is your scum thing
do you know what i was referring to with this?
Sure. I did it twice in previous scum games.

Once with RR in your game and once with Andrew in the other. But neither time on Day 1?
why would it be different d1?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:54:24 pm
Quote
Also just happened to see this right after my 482 from schadd:

it does, but mcmc is a good scum player

schadd isn't mcmc's partner. He isn't going to be talking me into a lynch right after I express an opinion that I want to avoid it and then further tries to put the brakes on the Awaclus wagon:

i mean, someone that makes a point of obscuring his reasoning shouldn't be the d1 lynch because of his shoddy reasoning. what do we have on him?

Sorry I missed this before, but I am putting schadd up there along with 2.7 and gkrieg of not mcmc's partner. (This conclusion totally overrode the original intent of this post, but I guess it was worth it).

Messed up the quoting so tried to do an easy fix, but the relevant schadd quotes are still there.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 05:55:46 pm
schadd, uhm.. if we can't get the TWM lynch through, my second preference of the people currently having votes on them would be you.
i don't have any votes


(except for the ones that people will cast in response to this post)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 05:56:53 pm
i'm trying to think of a better analogy than "i'm such a good starcraft player, look at how many minerals i have"
I don't know what that means.

you pushed on him during the day, yes. end of day is whenlynches happen and at end of day you lynched awaclus for voting the guy you're trying to get towncred for pushing
I am aware at how mediocre my Day 1 performance was. Thank you very much. And I am not saying I should be the IC. I just don't think I should be the default lynch or the go-to suspect today. I think the evidence argues against that.
well it also so happens that leaving a bus through the emergency exit is your scum thing
do you know what i was referring to with this?
Sure. I did it twice in previous scum games.

Once with RR in your game and once with Andrew in the other. But neither time on Day 1?
why would it be different d1?
Because I think a correct scum lynch would be much harder to overcome if it went through, so risky. The other days it was apparent that Andrew and RR had good chances of being lynched going into the day and I wanted to be a part of it for credit. Day 1 starts with an open slate, so no plan or precog going on.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 05:58:45 pm
you didn't finish the day voting him though. if you're scum you wouldn't have planned to, and you've gotten away with such rather easily in the past.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:01:59 pm
you didn't finish the day voting him though. if you're scum you wouldn't have planned to, and you've gotten away with such rather easily in the past.

I know I wasn't.

And gotten away with such? Jumping off a wagon? Sure, because they didn't get lynched. But again if mcmc gets lynched because of a wagon I started,whether I am on it or not, is going to be very bad for mafia, right? And it isn't like I got on early and then jumped. I got on late.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:03:24 pm
This seems ridiculous. I am trying to answer questions of what I would have done as scum, when I really can only speculate. It doesn't seem very useful. Go look at my posts and ask me why I did them as town. That I can answer, not this speculation shit.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:06:15 pm
But again if mcmc gets lynched because of a wagon I started,whether I am on it or not, is going to be very bad for mafia, right?
you didn't start the wagon, as you note in the next sentence.


do you remember if you thought mcmc was scum during n1?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:08:28 pm
This seems ridiculous. I am trying to answer questions of what I would have done as scum, when I really can only speculate. It doesn't seem very useful. Go look at my posts and ask me why I did them as town. That I can answer, not this speculation shit.
yeah, i know. the thing about scumreads is that they're weak if the thing they did has a reasonable town explanation. i'm doing my derndest
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:08:59 pm
But again if mcmc gets lynched because of a wagon I started,whether I am on it or not, is going to be very bad for mafia, right?
you didn't start the wagon, as you note in the next sentence.


do you remember if you thought mcmc was scum during n1?
Help move along then.

And I didn't do any thinking about the game during the night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:09:37 pm
This seems ridiculous. I am trying to answer questions of what I would have done as scum, when I really can only speculate. It doesn't seem very useful. Go look at my posts and ask me why I did them as town. That I can answer, not this speculation shit.
yeah, i know. the thing about scumreads is that they're weak if the thing they did has a reasonable town explanation. i'm doing my derndest
Oh sure. I am not being critical of you, I just can't answer your questions very well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:10:26 pm
I think I just VT slipped, so I guess I am stating I am a VT. Sorry.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:14:35 pm
But again if mcmc gets lynched because of a wagon I started,whether I am on it or not, is going to be very bad for mafia, right?
you didn't start the wagon, as you note in the next sentence.


do you remember if you thought mcmc was scum during n1?
Help move along then.

And I didn't do any thinking about the game during the night.
well that's the worst vt claim i've seen in my adult life


what i'm getting at is that it's super weird to me that you came in to d2 expecting some amount of towncred for pushing mcmc - not because you didn't deserve it, but because if you did change your mind at the day, you would have been thinking "dern, i was pushing town this whole time" up until the flip, whereas if you knew you were bussing you would be like "hey man where's my towncred"


This seems ridiculous. I am trying to answer questions of what I would have done as scum, when I really can only speculate. It doesn't seem very useful. Go look at my posts and ask me why I did them as town. That I can answer, not this speculation shit.
yeah, i know. the thing about scumreads is that they're weak if the thing they did has a reasonable town explanation. i'm doing my derndest
Oh sure. I am not being critical of you, I just can't answer your questions very well.
the tip to improving at mafia et al. is that you can be critical of yourself more often than you're supposed to.


how about.


you said at the start of toDay that you should stick to your guns more. how have you been doing that?

(i'm just a job interviewer now i guess)


ppe lma000
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:18:25 pm
I literally saw mcmc flip as scum and thought. Hey I remember voting for him a bit and wanting others to vote for him. That should make me look good. And then was surprised that others, mostly Faust, immediately thought differently.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:18:53 pm
Yeah. I think I am done with questions.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:19:53 pm
hhhhhhhh.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:20:43 pm
yeah sorry for kind of making you vt slip. i did worry about that in asking the question
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:22:10 pm
yeah sorry for kind of making you vt slip. i did worry about that in asking the question
It wasn't my brightest moment ever.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:28:30 pm
it was a bit of a useless exercise because this is the sort of thing you're good at as scum anyway but i need to do something, at least for you to know what you're dealing with if you're town


yeah sorry for kind of making you vt slip. i did worry about that in asking the question
It wasn't my brightest moment ever.
future so bright u need shades  8)


at present i do think you are more likely to flip scum, and i have for most of toDay. i leave for work in a bit under an hour. anything else you want to talk about?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:32:08 pm
Hmmm. Not really. You, schadd and gkrieg are not mcmc partners.

Robz I think is likely one of he three. Don't know which.

Andrew I am tow reading from reverse-WIFOM. So maybe that isn't that strong.

And I still think faust is different if I stick to my guns that is where I should stick. Vote: faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 06:33:22 pm
different from what?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 06:39:42 pm
different from what?
Don't think I meant to say different there. I find him scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 06:42:45 pm
Keep in mind it's his birthday, I don't know if he'll be around. Are we really comfortable lynching him without a claim? I mean, I would rather lynch him than get lynched myself, but objectively, I don't know if that's the smartest thing,

I am sort of inclined to go after one of the mcmc pile-on ers. But maybe avoiding mcmc's wagon was the safest thing for scum to do.

This just feels like genuinely busy mcmc to me, him actually being what he says makes a lot of sense. The problem is I don't have a great alternative candidate...

I mean if all we can do is lynch mcmc or no one, I will vote for mcmc befoere I go to sleep in about 2 hrs
I agree with this.

hey gkrieg I know you're online what do you think about awaclus?

how about you talk about why you are voting awaclus pleeeeez

He's a person who isn't a townread.

Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1

Ok, so these are the posts that I feel pushed from mcmc to Andrew.  I think Robz is pretty solidly partnery, and the fact that kkrieg didn't trust my reads is a little shady.  I really think she would go to the effort to at least tell me why mcmcsalot was townie, instead of just telling me why she thought Awaclus was scummy.  The reasoning to stay on the Awa wagon are SUPER weak.  Like none of them are scummy at all. 

The fact that she stayed on Awaclus instead of switching to mcmcsalot with those reasons (and not giving reasons why mcmc was townier than Awa) is really scummy from her.  She generally trusts me a lot more in social deduction games.

Reposting. Good stuff about Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 07:02:40 pm
fake hammer: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 07:11:40 pm
vote: twm
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 07:13:13 pm
Would be surprised if he was scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 07:13:35 pm
thanks for telling me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 07:14:22 pm
like why say that now
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 07:18:44 pm
I guess still possible that he is the SK. Was going to give my full Robz case after work. Been busy with end of semester stuff
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 07:19:11 pm
Did we get scum TWM?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 02, 2017, 07:20:26 pm
Flip probably won't be for a while
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 07:21:06 pm
oh yeah tell us who you rb'd if traitor
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 07:36:33 pm
it was a bit of a useless exercise because this is the sort of thing you're good at as scum anyway but i need to do something, at least for you to know what you're dealing with if you're town

All of this felt like schadd trying to make it look like he was actually trying to think about this. But he always wanted to hammer me. Nothing I said actually had an impact on him. Makes him a lot scummier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 07:37:24 pm
Did we get scum TWM?
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/parksandrecreation/images/3/38/Leslie.png/revision/latest?cb=20111015205925)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 07:48:03 pm
it was a bit of a useless exercise because this is the sort of thing you're good at as scum anyway but i need to do something, at least for you to know what you're dealing with if you're town

All of this felt like schadd trying to make it look like he was actually trying to think about this. But he always wanted to hammer me. Nothing I said actually had an impact on him. Makes him a lot scummier.
What exactly did you mean by being good at this sort of thing as scum? I have never been in this situation before as scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 08:57:34 pm
not defending yourself, exactly. unfortunately i don't think you got much substantial pressure in either scum game so i don't have a point of reference. but conversation & coming up with townie reasons for stuff, i think it's fair to say you've proven good at that. suffice to say this game and sort of last game i planned to try to read you based on stances and voting habits and those have been yucky.


if i wanted to look like i hadn't more or less made up my mind i wouldn't have said i was scumreading you all of today. i wasn't gonna, like, hammer right away, if for no other reason than you would have probably been pissed if town because of last game, but at the same time i really don't have any other tools in my arsenal for this situation other than asking a bunch of questions.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 02, 2017, 11:32:59 pm
wat
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 02, 2017, 11:36:21 pm
joule per second
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 03, 2017, 12:05:56 am
I am calling schadd as scum. Heed my words!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:17:02 am
r u sk
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:17:23 am
vengeful sk needs to be a thing imo
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 03, 2017, 12:17:53 am
r u sk
Fuck no. I am VT. I wouldn't be trying to help town here if I was scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:18:35 am
which is why i asked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:21:02 am
imna check if you breadcrumbed sk
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 03, 2017, 12:21:45 am
which is why i asked
You shouldn't have to ask. Just assume I am town here, what do you have to lose? You will see the flip and then know one way or the other.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 03, 2017, 12:22:30 am
imna check if you breadcrumbed sk
Ok. You do that instead of talking with what is about to become a confirmed townie, albeit dead.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 03, 2017, 12:23:18 am
But you didnt want o talk with me when I was an IC PR last game, so why am I not surprised.

Peace.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:23:26 am
uh, ok. why am i scum now? i thought i was town a bit ago
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:24:52 am
i mean
ic is like the least interesting person to talk to.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 03, 2017, 12:26:27 am
But you didnt want o talk with me when I was an IC PR last game, so why am I not surprised.
this kind of sounds like a slip that i'm town
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on May 03, 2017, 01:07:42 am
Vote count 2.final
The_Wine_Merchant (5): faust, Eevee, kkrieg, Robz888, schadd
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (0):

With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch. Thread Locked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on May 03, 2017, 01:19:00 am
После того, как дом Макмаксалота сгорел, люди, казалось бы потеряли последние капли доверия друг другу. Из каждого угла доносились обвинения, даже золото было практически забыто. С раннего утра и до позднего вечера жители деревни сидели и пытались понять, кто же крадёт их золото. В конце концов дом Зэ_Вайн_Мёрчанта был выбран для обыска. Открыв его подвал, люди увидели, что в нем ничего нет кроме бочек с вином. "Угощайтесь же, друзья!" сказал Зэ_Вайн_Мёрчант, покачнулся и... полетел в подвал. Там было очень высоко.

After Mcmcsalot's house got burned people seemed to lose the last drops of trust to each other. Accusation were going back and forth, no single piece of gold was mined that day. From the earliest morning to the latest evening people were trying to understand who's stealing their gold. In the end they have chosen The_Wine_Merchant's house for inspection. Opening his basement they say, that there was nothing but a few barrels of old wine. "Told ya!" said the guy. "By the way, make yourself confortable, let's drink some wine!" But he was so excited, that forgot to bring a ladder. That was a long fall.

The_Wine_Merchant was lynched! He was Зэ_Вайн_Мёрчант, the Vanilla Townie!

Night 2 starts now and ends Friday, May 5th at 1am FT. Deadline for night actions is in 47 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 05, 2017, 01:04:31 am
Ночь была тихой. После изнуряющего дня все спали как убитые. Внезапно в ночи послышался едва слышный треск. Потом еще один. И еще. Треск стал громче... Самые чуткие начали просыпаться, пытаясь понять. что происходит. И тут, грянул гром! Люди подскочили в кроватях и выбежали на улицу только, чтобы увидеть, как дом ЭндрюизЭФТИТИДАБЛЮ рассыпается на части, погребая по собой всех, кто был внутри.

It was a quiet night. After the hard day people are sleeping in their beds not different from the dead. And suddenly... First it was the quietest crack sound. One more. One more. Then it was louder... Finally the sound of thousands thunders made peoplejump in their beds. Sleepy, not understanding what is going on they ran out to the street just to see how AndrewFTTW's house was being razed to the ground, burying those inside.

AndrewisFTTW was killed! He was ЭндрюизЭФТИТИДАБЛЮ, the Vanilla Townie.

День 3 начался!

Vote count 3.0

Not voting (7):
Robz888, schadd, Eevee, gkrieg13, 2,71828....., faust, kkrieg

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday, 12th of May at 1 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:11:32 am
Interesting. Only one kill.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 02:16:42 am
The kills this game are decidedly strange.

I feel like we need to massclaim today. 3 scum and 3 PRs left. kkrieg should probably do some sort of claiming order list.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:19:47 am
The kills this game are decidedly strange.

I feel like we need to massclaim today. 3 scum and 3 PRs left. kkrieg should probably do some sort of claiming order list.

Is mass claim right here? 

I guess the upside is that we get 3 ICs potentially, so uh, ya that seems right.

The downside is that the JK if they exist becomes less useful, but it is possible they already caught scum anyway.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:20:14 am
That post was thinking out loud btw. I'm in favor of a mass claim
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:22:08 am
It is too bad there is so much investigation immunity potentially in this setup.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 02:30:58 am
Actually wait. Maybe that's not such a good idea after all.

Will explain later.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 02:36:39 am
Okay, short version now.

Robz is a claimed VT. We have 3 scum/3 PRs left. That leaves exactly 1 VT. This person would know that Robz is lying. For anyone else, well it's still pretty damn likely because VT is the go-to fakeclaim D1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 02:39:08 am
The only thing I'm not yet 100% sure about is should another VT claim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 03:20:35 am
Currently leaning toward no claim, just lynch Robz.

You can look at it this way: There are 4 roles for which Robz' claim makes sense. 3 of them are scum. Gotta like those 75% odds. Add in that we have seen legitimately scummy behaviour from Robz, and the only thing in his favor is that he hasn't done a lot of stuff, which isn't that hard to fake.

There is also other stuff that I think would not be beneficial to discuss at this moment.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 04:54:36 am
That's a decent night for us.. I guess. Sooooo much variance in the game right now.

Wasn't Andrew pushing for faust really hard yesterday?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 06:10:22 am
Wasn't Andrew pushing for faust really hard yesterday?
I believe you're thinking of e.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 09:16:42 am
I am really not sure what we should do here. This is where we are at:

3 town PRs: 1 shot commuter, other PR, other PR
1 VT
3 scum: goon, traitor, SK

Claiming PRs will get us to 3 ICs with 4 people (probably) claiming VT.

I think I like claiming. I have a claim order that I would like to use:
Eevee
Schadd
Faust
e
Gkrieg

And we already know kkrieg is the 1 shot commuter and Robz has claimed VT
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 09:21:29 am
Wasn't Andrew pushing for faust really hard yesterday?
I believe you're thinking of e.

Yes it was me. And while I am here I just want to point out how terrible the TWM lynch was
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 09:23:59 am
Well, actually there is a minimum of 2 scum on the wagon, so we can learn from that.

Basically, we are lynching someone on that wagon
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 09:27:57 am
Well, actually there is a minimum of 2 scum on the wagon, so we can learn from that.

Basically, we are lynching someone on that wagon
Well unless you're scum  ::)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 09:29:55 am
kkrieg was just as much a mislynch wagon as TWM was, and the only reason that didn't happen is because she's a PR.

That wagon:

gkrieg, e, Robz, TWM.

Notably Robz is the only person on both wagons.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 09:55:33 am
Well I prefer a massclaim to lynching me.

I think you'll find "Robz being on all the wagons" is far more indicative of town Robz than scum Robz.

I want to keep in mind TWM's scumread was on faust, but it's almost pointless to speculate about who's scum until we massclaim. Although I see why it's possible to speculate about me. But nope, I'm just what I said I was.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 10:06:00 am
i think that pre-claim is way, way better to speculate who's scum before the massclaim.


do you perchance remember the two people you were trying to decide between at the end of day 2 M97?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 10:07:54 am
i think that pre-claim is way, way better to speculate who's scum before the massclaim.


do you perchance remember the two people you were trying to decide between at the end of day 2 M97?

Nope. Dylan and someone else.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 10:11:33 am
dylan and andrew. you decided andrew was a little townier.


why is it pointless to speculate scummos before massclaim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 10:13:49 am
dylan and andrew. you decided andrew was a little townier.


why is it pointless to speculate scummos before massclaim?

Well it's not pointless, okay, I'm most suspicious of faust and schadd. What I mean is, now if we do this massclaim, turns out you are an unchallenged PR, the fact that I suspected you doesn't mean much. Maybe it means something to you, something about me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 10:14:11 am
i think that pre-claim is way, way better to speculate who's scum before the massclaim.
It's definitely better to speculate who's scum before the massclaim... because we shouldn't have a massclaim!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 10:14:23 am
Dylan and Andrew. Both were scum. I was town. What's your point?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 10:14:55 am
Robz, how do you feel about having only the VT claim?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 10:15:49 am
Dylan and Andrew. Both were scum. I was town. What's your point?
you are maybe an okay town player.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 10:21:03 am
Dylan and Andrew. Both were scum. I was town. What's your point?
you are maybe an okay town player.

Still called it wrong in the end
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 10:49:19 am
I think we should just lynch Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 10:52:12 am
I think we should mass claim
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 10:53:57 am
Rather, I think (if Robz is scum) we have an unclaimed VT. I think that VT should claim.

We don't need a full mass claim
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 10:54:28 am
If I were the mod here, I would ask the mod not to use quotes from an ongoing game in the signature by the way. It's a subtle manipulation technique.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 10:56:13 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 10:57:12 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow
I'm not sure I'm following this...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 10:58:30 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow
I'm not sure I'm following this...

It's ok.that was directed at the other members of town, not you
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:01:59 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow

I agree with this. Even losing one role to roleblocking seems worth it to have a tremendous amount of POE.

Although I think a VT/non-VT claim is better first, or even just saying that the other VT must claim, with no order.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:09:24 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow

I agree with this. Even losing one role to roleblocking seems worth it to have a tremendous amount of POE.

You say this. Yet, unless we lynch the SK today, we will still have 2 killing actions the next night. I.e. even if we lynch correctly, we could reasonably end up with 2 nightkills on the next night. Then we're at 4 alive with 2 scum and have lost control of the game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:13:41 am
lets do some claiming.

I am a PR

next up.  Faust, are you a PR or a VT?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:14:40 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow

I agree with this. Even losing one role to roleblocking seems worth it to have a tremendous amount of POE.

You say this. Yet, unless we lynch the SK today, we will still have 2 killing actions the next night. I.e. even if we lynch correctly, we could reasonably end up with 2 nightkills on the next night. Then we're at 4 alive with 2 scum and have lost control of the game.

As long as the other scum don't shoot the same person.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 11:17:53 am
If I were the mod here, I would ask the mod not to use quotes from an ongoing game in the signature by the way. It's a subtle manipulation technique.

Sorry, was not intended that way, just thought it was funny. I'll take it out.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 11:19:18 am
Er, I'm on mobile and can't modify my profile right now. I'll get to it this afternoon. Again, apologies.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:20:46 am
We will have a 3/4 shot to hit scum after all the claims happen.

I think gkrieg is probably scum after all his hesitation to claim and how much he has been around.

I think schadd/eevee will be our last PR, but I think it is schadd.

Town: e, schadd, kkrieg, Robz
scum: faust (goon), schadd/eevee (SK/traitor) not sure which is which.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:21:44 am
I think we can figure this out and win with a mass claim though. Minimum that vt should claim because then we have our lynch for tomorrow

I agree with this. Even losing one role to roleblocking seems worth it to have a tremendous amount of POE.

You say this. Yet, unless we lynch the SK today, we will still have 2 killing actions the next night. I.e. even if we lynch correctly, we could reasonably end up with 2 nightkills on the next night. Then we're at 4 alive with 2 scum and have lost control of the game.

As long as the other scum don't shoot the same person.
Yes; that's a reasonable enoguh assumption. I wouldn't want to bet the game on them doing it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:23:25 am
Well I will wait on kkrieg to come in here and see the light, thank you very much.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:28:18 am
Well I will wait on kkrieg to come in here and see the light, thank you very much.

to come here and join you on another attempted mislynch, you mean.  She helped mislynch Awaclus and TWM, you are hoping for one more.  I know based on my PR that you are scum.  So unless you have some good results that you are town that override my results.....it will be hard to convince me you are town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:29:07 am
We will have a 3/4 shot to hit scum after all the claims happen.

I think gkrieg is probably scum after all his hesitation to claim and how much he has been around.

I think schadd/eevee will be our last PR, but I think it is schadd.

Town: e, schadd, kkrieg, Robz
scum: faust (goon), schadd/eevee (SK/traitor) not sure which is which.

This is very confusing to me. Where am I?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:29:26 am
Well I will wait on kkrieg to come in here and see the light, thank you very much.

to come here and join you on another attempted mislynch, you mean.  She helped mislynch Awaclus and TWM, you are hoping for one more.  I know based on my PR that you are scum.  So unless you have some good results that you are town that override my results.....it will be hard to convince me you are town.
You know based on your PR that I am scum?

Vote: e that's not possible.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:31:03 am
Now I regret that post -.-
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:31:28 am
We will have a 3/4 shot to hit scum after all the claims happen.

I think gkrieg is probably scum after all his hesitation to claim and how much he has been around.

I think schadd/eevee will be our last PR, but I think it is schadd.

Town: e, schadd, kkrieg, Robz
scum: faust (goon), schadd/eevee (SK/traitor) not sure which is which.

This is very confusing to me. Where am I?

oops, I wrote schadd twice.  you are scum with eevee.  Whether the SK or traitor, I don't know
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:32:31 am
Argh.

There's stuff. I'm troubled.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:35:07 am
FWIW, I think you're fakeclaim buildup is a bit obvious, e.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:35:24 am
Argh.

There's stuff. I'm troubled.

I am interested in knowing that stuff that troubles you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:35:36 am
unvote for now. I need to weigh the options.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:36:06 am
Argh.

There's stuff. I'm troubled.

I am interested in knowing that stuff that troubles you.
Figuring out which scum you are.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:36:39 am
I'm the last PR.

Which means that e is probably the goon cop, which means we are in:
Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:37:51 am
If we are in that, it means that it is also possible that scum shot SK and traitor the first two nights.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:38:52 am
I'm the last PR.

Which means that e is probably the goon cop, which means we are in:
Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer

*sigh*

No you're not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:39:19 am
I'm a PR.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:40:13 am
I'm the last PR.

Which means that e is probably the goon cop, which means we are in:
Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer

*sigh*

No you're not.

This is getting exciting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:40:42 am
yes, it is.  So exciting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:41:34 am
so gkrieg is the detective.

unless faust is counterclaiming that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:41:50 am
FWIW, giving away what PR you are was a bit shortsighted, gkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:41:54 am
I'm a PR.

explainer of lack of night kills or finder of goons?

Same question to e.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 11:42:36 am
I'm a Jailkeeper. Of course.

I need to get home now, but I blocked Eeevee both nights.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:42:46 am
FWIW, giving away what PR you are was a bit shortsighted, gkrieg.

Still pretty early in the morning here...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:44:08 am
good times, good times.

I jailkept faust both nights

If you notice, I basically came out 100% hard core against faust almost out of nowhere D2.  If faust jailkept eevee, why did he not suspect him as scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 11:44:52 am
but now I need to leave and head to work.  Let's try not to lynch anyone too quickly, please.  There is a lot of figuring out to do.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 11:48:30 am
i vt'd robz both nights
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:51:18 am
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer

So here then.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:51:51 am
i vt'd robz both nights

So you know Robz is some kind of scum, and faust and e know the other is some kind of scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 11:52:13 am
I'll wait to share my results.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 11:55:39 am
Presently I'm lost. Have to do some figuring of what this all means. Won't have time til the afternoon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:01:07 pm
i vt'd robz both nights

what are you claiming?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:01:46 pm
This can actually work out pretty well for us I think.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:04:11 pm
This can actually work out pretty well for us I think.

I know, right?  I am very interested if our detective investigated eevee (or faust).  because that would prove my claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:06:43 pm
good times, good times.

I jailkept faust both nights

If you notice, I basically came out 100% hard core against faust almost out of nowhere D2.  If faust jailkept eevee, why did he not suspect him as scum?

So faust has to be the goon in your eyes?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:09:23 pm
good times, good times.

I jailkept faust both nights

If you notice, I basically came out 100% hard core against faust almost out of nowhere D2.  If faust jailkept eevee, why did he not suspect him as scum?

So faust has to be the goon in your eyes?

precisely.  This also plays into why I did not want to lynch faust yesterday.  I did not know if I protected him from a kill or stopped him from killing.  I needed a second night.  Also, if I did stop him from killing (as I firmly believe), then we have neutered scum, I want to lynch traitor/SK first because I don't really know who they are.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:10:22 pm
i vt'd robz both nights

what are you claiming?
vt
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:11:18 pm
i vt'd robz both nights

what are you claiming?
vt

ok, so Robz is confirmed scum to you then.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:12:57 pm
was already a suspicion for a while but yes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:13:04 pm
I'm a Jailkeeper. Of course.

I need to get home now, but I blocked Eeevee both nights.

Also if this is the case, then Eevee also can only be the goon, but can't be the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:13:27 pm
i vt'd robz both nights

what are you claiming?
vt

ok, so Robz is confirmed scum to you then.

And schadd is confirmed scum to Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:20:00 pm
i uh don't plan to play a game with a serial killer in the near future
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 12:20:19 pm
I thought there was another vt which could be either schadd or Eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 12:20:59 pm
i uh don't plan to play a game with a serial killer in the near future

Cuz it's you and you are frustrated?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:21:31 pm
Also to note. Traitor knows mafia. So we can look for traitor interactions with mcmc, but not the other way around. One reason why I thought kkrieg was traitor not normal scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 12:21:48 pm
I'm on phone still, Faust and e are in conflicting claims, is gkrieg?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:22:49 pm
I'm on phone still, Faust and e are in conflicting claims, is gkrieg?

No, just faust and me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:24:30 pm
like i am having trouble thinking this through even with an assumption that robz is red
we shouldn't talk about eevee until he claims, yes?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 12:30:08 pm
like i am having trouble thinking this through even with an assumption that robz is red
we shouldn't talk about eevee until he claims, yes?

I think you and I are both vts if Eevee and gkrieg are both scum. Wait is that possible
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:31:22 pm
like i am having trouble thinking this through even with an assumption that robz is red
we shouldn't talk about eevee until he claims, yes?

I think you and I are both vts if Eevee and gkrieg are both scum. Wait is that possible

No. We are in setup 7. Left alive we have
3 town PRs. JK, commuter, detective
1 SK
1 goon
1 traitor
1 VT
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:35:58 pm
If you notice, I basically came out 100% hard core against faust almost out of nowhere D2.  If faust jailkept eevee, why did he not suspect him as scum?
I did. Reread.

Also if this is the case, how did you know I wasn't shot N1? It tends to happen.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:37:18 pm
I'm a Jailkeeper. Of course.

I need to get home now, but I blocked Eeevee both nights.

Also if this is the case, then Eevee also can only be the goon, but can't be the SK.

Right. Which is pretty much exactly what I said D2.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:40:05 pm
e/Eevee is clearly the Traitor/Goon pairing. e knew Eevee had been blocked, so he decided to protect him by fakeclaiming.

I considered a theory in which e does this as the SK, but honestly I'm not sure he's ballsy enough to do that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:41:41 pm
Claiming PRs will get us to 3 ICs with 4 people (probably) claiming VT.
This is what tipped me off that a fakeclaim was coming. It is inconceivable for me that someone would ignore the possibility of fakeclaims.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:43:16 pm
Look at my theorizing at the start of D1 and you may figure out that I did it to reduce my pool of possible targets.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:44:02 pm
Still reasonably sure the Robz is the SK. I mean it could be schadd, but I have a hard time seeing that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:46:55 pm
"Incriminate the PR before they can incriminate you" is a classic scum play too. That's why e was so eager to claim.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:49:31 pm
Still reasonably sure the Robz is the SK. I mean it could be schadd, but I have a hard time seeing that.

I think Robz makes more sense as the SK than schadd does.  Even though he does have some mcmcsalot interactions.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 12:51:48 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.

Yeah, sure sounds like someone you Jailkept N1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:52:36 pm
Well I know from POE that one of faust/e, and one of Robz/schadd, and Eevee are scum.

It seems that traitor knew that mcmcsalot was mafia. 

Also, faust's result incriminates Eevee, which works better with my theory anyway.

I investigated schadd N1, and faust N2, and got didn't kill for both of them.  Considering we know mafia doesn't have any investigation immunity at this point, that means that e/Eevee is the scum team, but ironically, we should lynch out of Robz/schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:54:55 pm
I guess knowing that Eevee is scum, isn't strictly from POE, but from my results.  Without my results ICing faust, I know that scum/SK are in Robz,Eevee,schadd.  But with my result, and the no-kill, I know that either Eevee is scum, or a very complicated set of events occurred.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:55:43 pm
oh so i'm confirmed not sk fypov


fypov/fmpov are useful terms here: from your/my point of view
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:55:49 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.

Yeah, sure sounds like someone you Jailkept N1.
I needed a way to bring Eevee up that wouldn't immediately expose me. After N1 I wasn't sure what happened; there are multiple possible explanations for no NK, and most of them do not include me. You on the other hand claim you knew I was scum on D2 when you couldn't possibly have known.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 12:56:10 pm
Oh, and SK 1-shot investigation immune isn't passive, which means that unless schadd used it N1, Robz is the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 12:57:31 pm
I investigated schadd N1, and faust N2, and got didn't kill for both of them.  Considering we know mafia doesn't have any investigation immunity at this point, that means that e/Eevee is the scum team, but ironically, we should lynch out of Robz/schadd.
Well that just makes things so much easier. I agree with your analysis.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 12:59:19 pm
i will generally be under the assumption that if faust and gkrieg are scum together in a lylo with 7 different roles then we are especially fucked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 01:00:05 pm
Oh, and SK 1-shot investigation immune isn't passive, which means that unless schadd used it N1, Robz is the SK.

Err...

Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:00:36 pm
So unless some crazy things happened (like mcmcsalot shooting the traitor N1, and then the traitor performing the kill N2) and/or if schadd used his 1-shot investigation immunity and still shot N1:

e/Eevee is the remaining scum
Robz is the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:01:13 pm
Oh, and SK 1-shot investigation immune isn't passive, which means that unless schadd used it N1, Robz is the SK.

Err...

Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune.

The bulletproof is passive, not the investigation immunity.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:02:06 pm
Otherwise that sentence reads:

passive 1-shot bulletproof
passive 1-shot strongman
passive 1-shot investigation immunity

and passive 1-shot strongman doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:03:53 pm
Well I know from POE that one of faust/e, and one of Robz/schadd, and Eevee are scum.

It seems that traitor knew that mcmcsalot was mafia. 

Also, faust's result incriminates Eevee, which works better with my theory anyway.

I investigated schadd N1, and faust N2, and got didn't kill for both of them.  Considering we know mafia doesn't have any investigation immunity at this point, that means that e/Eevee is the scum team, but ironically, we should lynch out of Robz/schadd.

Did you get "did not kill" or "no result"

Because a "did not kill" N2 incriminates me. If I am telling the truth your result should have been "no result"

Please clarify with the mod in your qt.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:06:39 pm
Nevermind. Thinking backwards.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:07:00 pm
Well I know from POE that one of faust/e, and one of Robz/schadd, and Eevee are scum.

It seems that traitor knew that mcmcsalot was mafia. 

Also, faust's result incriminates Eevee, which works better with my theory anyway.

I investigated schadd N1, and faust N2, and got didn't kill for both of them.  Considering we know mafia doesn't have any investigation immunity at this point, that means that e/Eevee is the scum team, but ironically, we should lynch out of Robz/schadd.

Did you get "did not kill" or "no result"

Because a "did not kill" N2 incriminates me. If I am telling the truth your result should have been "no result"

Please clarify with the mod in your qt.

No it shouldn't have.  JKing only protects from night kills, not from being investigated.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:07:34 pm
I Jailkept faust, but that doesn't prevent investigative results. My bad, carry on
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:08:41 pm
I Jailkept faust, but that doesn't prevent investigative results. My bad, carry on

That still means that you are 100% scum with my results...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:09:02 pm
But yes, I agree lynching out of Robz/schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:09:26 pm
I Jailkept faust, but that doesn't prevent investigative results. My bad, carry on

That still means that you are 100% scum with my results...


No it doesnt. Because faust never performed a NK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:09:54 pm
I blocked him both nights. Unless attempting to kill counts for detective results
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:13:07 pm
I blocked him both nights. Unless attempting to kill counts for detective results

Of course.  Didn't see that.  I guess mafia possibly haven't killed at all yet...

So from your POV, what does the game look like?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 01:13:51 pm
why investigate me n1? you don't have to answer
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:13:55 pm
So does nobody have something to say anymore?

I'm going to do an Eevee reread since I don't remember anything about that guy.

Yeah, sure sounds like someone you Jailkept N1.
I needed a way to bring Eevee up that wouldn't immediately expose me. After N1 I wasn't sure what happened; there are multiple possible explanations for no NK, and most of them do not include me. You on the other hand claim you knew I was scum on D2 when you couldn't possibly have known.

I was excited. Also, true, I did not know. But I was confident
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:14:03 pm
faust is incriminating his partner Eevee with his results,

And Robz is the SK. 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:14:47 pm
why investigate me n1? you don't have to answer

Maybe after.  You seemed like a good person to investigate.  Hard to read, and people had opinions about you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:22:57 pm
I blocked him both nights. Unless attempting to kill counts for detective results

Of course.  Didn't see that.  I guess mafia possibly haven't killed at all yet...

So from your POV, what does the game look like?

Town:
Kkrieg: 1 shot commuter
Gkrieg: detective
e: Jailkeeper

Scum:
Faust: highly suspicious D2, confirmed to me today after a second successful blocking of the NK. Plus he is countering my claim, so I know he is scum.

Conflicting claims:
Robz/schadd- two VT claims. Possible SK/traitor. With your result on schadd I can know he is not the SK, but he could still be traitor.

No claim:
Eevee- still needs to claim. I foresee a VT claim or a detective claim. Detective claim would be interesting, VT claim means that 2 of [eevee, Robz, schadd] are scum.

Right now I am leaning eevee as the traitor, Robz as SK (based on your result)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 01:36:56 pm
Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

I am caught up, I am also a vanilla townie. I also don't have much to add. I am much less confident of my reads after failing super hard last game and think most people are playing as I expect them to be playing. I would be open to lynching andrew, twm, 2.7. kkrieg, eevee, awaclus. Also I am sleepy and slightly inebriated.

Notable mcmcsalot quotes.  They don't give much...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 01:39:39 pm
Just reread eevee, and I think there is a clear traitor narrative there.

I am on my phone or I would try to build the whole case with quotes and stuff
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 02:02:55 pm
Well, I'm not the Serial Killer, or a scum of any kind, so it would be really bad if we lynched me. How can I convince you, so that we don't lose?

I would not have killed mcmc, for one thing, as I think multiple people recognized. He had claimed VT, and also, it's mcmc. He's my brother. He's one of the players I'm more adept at manipulating. Having him dead isn't worth the WIFOM it would have bought me.

I am always a staunch advocate of shooting the gkriegs and fausts of the word, the fact that they are still alive should be good indication I have no killing power.

Killing mcmc, a claimed VT, is the sort of batty thing a schadd Serial Killer would do, I guess? I'm still unclear whether I have to presume schadd is the SK. It's because E says schadd can't be SK? But isn't E scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:13:10 pm
Robz, you don't have to assume schadd is the SK.

This is how I see it:

The traitor and the SK exist in {Robz, Eevee, schadd}. Schadd cannot be the SK based on gkrieg's result.

So....
If Robz is town,  Eevee is the SK and schadd is the traitor
If eevee is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or eevee could be SK or traitor.

From fausts perspective-
SK and traitor exist in {e, Robz, schadd}
If Robz is town, e is SK and schadd is traitor
If e is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or e could be SK/traitor.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:14:22 pm
gkrieg got the result on schadd that he did not kill N1, which means he cannot be the serial killer
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:14:36 pm
I'm saying that schadd is not the SK, though he technically could be other scum.

One of faust/e is scum, kkrieg is not scum, so that leaves 2 scum in Robz/Eevee/schadd.  I have a result that shows that schadd is most likely not the SK, because we know there was an SK kill, but that schadd hadn't killed as of N1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:16:17 pm
.
If Robz is town,  Eevee is the SK and schadd is the traitor
If eevee is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or eevee could be SK or traitor.

From fausts perspective-
SK and traitor exist in {e, Robz, schadd}
If Robz is town, e is SK and schadd is traitor
If e is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or e could be SK/traitor.

Also note, from my perspective faust is confirmed goon, from fausts perspective eevee is confirmed goon
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:16:44 pm
Robz, you don't have to assume schadd is the SK.

This is how I see it:

The traitor and the SK exist in {Robz, Eevee, schadd}. Schadd cannot be the SK based on gkrieg's result.

So....
If Robz is town,  Eevee is the SK and schadd is the traitor
If eevee is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or eevee could be SK or traitor.

From fausts perspective-
SK and traitor exist in {e, Robz, schadd}
If Robz is town, e is SK and schadd is traitor
If e is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or e could be SK/traitor.

Not necessarily.  It is still possible that mcmcsalot shot the traitor N1, and then the traitor shot Andrew N2.  So still possible that Eevee isn't scum from both of your perspectives, but unlikely I'll admit.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:36:22 pm
Wait, SK is one shot investigative immune. So gkrieg's result on schadd actually don't mean anything
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:37:18 pm
So schadd could still totally be SK with eevee as the traitor.

I think that this is the most likely scenario.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:38:11 pm
Wait, SK is one shot investigative immune. So gkrieg's result on schadd actually don't mean anything

But it is active, so he would've had to have activated it the first night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:38:51 pm
Jailkeeper- e
1 shot commuter- kkrieg
Detective- gkrieg

Goon- faust
SK- schadd
Traitor- eevee

VT- Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:39:05 pm
Wait, SK is one shot investigative immune. So gkrieg's result on schadd actually don't mean anything

But it is active, so he would've had to have activated it the first night.

It is not active
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:44:57 pm
Wait, SK is one shot investigative immune. So gkrieg's result on schadd actually don't mean anything

But it is active, so he would've had to have activated it the first night.

It is not active

Ok yeah. It is active. From m51 mod qt:
Serial Killer

Welcome to Wool Mafia. You are XXX a XXXX XXXXX. Your win condition is to be the last player surviving. Each night you may send the mod the name of an active player which will be killed during the night. On any two nights you may use powers from your 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof (you will be protected from a single night kill), 1-shot Strongman (your action cannot be blocked) and 1-shot Investigation Immune (any investigation will turn up a false negative). If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Ninja is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well. Each night you may also forgo your night kill and perform any one of the 8 town roles listed in the OP (you may only use each role once).

Please respond via PM stating your role
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 02:45:02 pm
Wait, SK is one shot investigative immune. So gkrieg's result on schadd actually don't mean anything

But it is active, so he would've had to have activated it the first night.

It is not active

It is, I asked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:45:38 pm
Ok. Back to what I originally posted
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:47:35 pm
Ok. Back to what I originally posted

But with the possibility that schadd used investigation immune N1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 02:51:24 pm
Ok. Back to what I originally posted

But with the possibility that schadd used investigation immune N1.

Why is it so inconceivable that he did just that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 02:54:13 pm
Due to that possibility, I think lynching eevee is our best course of action.

If.....
Eevee flips SK, we rejoice with great rejoicing. I will Jailkeep faust, lynch him tomorrow, then we find a traitor among robz/schadd with 5 alive, only 1 scum

Eevee flips goon, I am scum, faust is Jailkeeper, he can hopefully block a kill and it is 5 town 2 scum. This will not occur.

Eevee flips town. We lose. Simple as that. Who wins between scum/sk? Not sure.

Eevee flips traitor. I Jailkeep faust, we know he is lying unless really weird kill choices and such occurred to prevent kills from happening. We will go into tomorrow 5/2, lynch faust, 3/1 lylo vs the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:00:25 pm
Robz' play makes me think he is town (see my post from yesterday) which makes me hesitant to lynch him. Everything from eevee makes me think he is scum. Schadd is a wild card to me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:10:40 pm
Fireworks!

I'm a VT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:11:02 pm
Everything from eevee makes me think he is scum.
And this makes me sad.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:14:26 pm
So gkrieg is 100% confirmed town. We know the exact setup and no one counterclaimed him.

There's exactly one scum between E and faust.

And... oh, so schadd and Eevee are both scum.

Well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 03:15:24 pm
hi friends.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:15:37 pm
Fireworks!

I'm a VT.

confirms gkrieg as IC
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:17:15 pm
hi friends.

HI. Why are Robz and eevee scum, with you actually being the vt
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:22:19 pm
I had a few glasses of wine with dinner at my mom's and running the scenarios makes my head hurt, but who should we be looking to lynch - the SK or mafia? SK for eliminating a kill?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:22:37 pm
Fireworks!

I'm a VT.

confirms gkrieg as IC
Glad to be able to help!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:36:02 pm
If I had to guess, based on reads, I would say Eevee is the Traitor and schadd is the SK. Eevee's lack of activity on Day 2 fits with a Traitor who is demoralized to have lost a partner on Night 1, and schadd's wackiness is sort of SK ish, maybe.

Faust says he blocked Eevee both nights. If scum shot Traitor Eevee night 1, would he be recruited, even if he was protected by the JK action? If so, and then Eevee fired the shot on Night 2, that would explain lack of nightkills.

Or I suppose Eevee could just be plain old regular mafia, who was jailed twice, resulting in no kills. Similar demoralization.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:37:32 pm
Eevee has to be scum no matter what, and we know there weren't kills, so I think this means basically that E has to be the liar. Because probably Eevee was blocked.

If E is telling the truth, then faust is scum who was JKed, and faust was the one doing the kills... well, okay, that works out too. Never mind. This is tough!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 03:38:51 pm
Cute kkrieg and I are ICs
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:39:08 pm
Well at any rate I tentatively think we should lynch schadd. And we should especially not lynch me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:39:38 pm
Cute kkrieg and I are ICs

Get a room!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:39:52 pm
(and make it a bulletproof one)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:40:06 pm
And bring me too because I am about ready to claim IC status.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:40:52 pm
And bring me too because I am about ready to claim IC status.

You should have done that yesterday....no one will believe you today
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:43:55 pm
Lynch preference:

Eevee>>schadd>>robz>>faust

I mean, we could lynch faust, but I think that we can prove which of us is telling the truth by postponing lynching between us until tomorrow
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:45:29 pm
And bring me too because I am about ready to claim IC status.

You should have done that yesterday....no one will believe you today

I hadn't earned it yet. Now we know schadd, Eevee, and either you or faust are scum.

We really need to lynch the SK here, right? Because there could still be two kills tonight, otherwise. We can't count on the JK if we still have the SK, the SK could still have Strongman. Strongman punches through JK, right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:48:50 pm
Robz is totally copying what I'm saying!

(things scum do)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 03:49:07 pm

hi friends.

HI. Why are Robz and eevee scum, with you actually being the vt

-i'm the only one of us that concretely pushed mcmc and defended awaclus
-robz was on kkrieg. i didn't defend her really but i told her she didn't have to claim
-the two of them teamed up on me toward eod2 and sort of coerced me into the twm lynch (though i did want to lynch him either way).


uh


eevee makes more sense to me as sk by day stuff. last game eevee was town, i was null on him and a bunch of other people scumread him; last time he was scum, i scumread him and the majority townread him. this game he seemed super town to me by tone and had no defenders. i would think his sk game looks more like his town game in that sense, but that's not a given, and the fact that sk & traitor exist could have changed the way he thought of the game if scum (hence why i don't like sk stuff)


robz was an intuitive mcmc partner to me at the start of d2.


that eevee claimed vt rather than ccing gkrieg is worth noting.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 03:50:33 pm
Cute kkrieg and I are ICs

Get a room!
ha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:52:51 pm
that eevee claimed vt rather than ccing gkrieg is worth noting.

It is worth noting. What does it mean? It sort of points to Eevee as SK, no? Because probably the SK would see less value in counterclaiming gkrieg. It doesn't matter as much to the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 03:53:53 pm
@Eevee @Robz
Can you both also answer the question of why you are the VT and the other two in (eevee, Robz, schadd) are scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:54:38 pm
Mafia!Eevee has almost nothing to lose counterclaiming gkrieg.

Well, I guess if Mafia!Eevee doesn't counterclaim gkrieg, is believed to be VT, we lynch schadd/me... okay that works out fine for Mafia!Eevee.

This has got to be one of the more insane Day 3s ever.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 03:56:40 pm
Robz feels like a SK.

SK plays the anyone but me (heyo, survivor reference!), and Robz has been willing to join wagons. OTOH, SK hates conflict, and I don't really remember Robz coming hard after anyone all game.

Doing analysis of that sort about schadd is above my pay grade, for now at least. Maybe 20 games from now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 03:59:26 pm
@Eevee @Robz
Can you both also answer the question of why you are the VT and the other two in (eevee, Robz, schadd) are scum?

Sure. I am VT because I say I am. I'm not the SK because I wouldn't have killed mcmc, a claimed VT, on Night 1. Scum want to shoot at PRs, and mcmc said he wasn't one. He's also someone I'd rather keep alive.

I don't have anything particularly compelling to say for why I'm not mafia, unfortunately. As it said in my profile until recently, I've had a lackluster performance, which points to me as town. Gkrieg and faust still be alive should be a huge clue, I always advocate killing them off if I have killing powers. I was town in Mafia 97, I think if you were in that game and then saw me now, you'd recognize town!Robz here.

But of course these things aren't an exact science, I don't think anyone is crazy for thinking I could be mafia.

Why are schadd and Eevee scum? I admit I townread Eevee most of this game, so this will just be example number 9,437 of me having bad reads. Schadd I've had a bad feeling about for a while now, and I've said so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 04:00:52 pm
@Faust, what do you think of this? There have been lots of posts but I would love of you could respond to this one in particular whenever you get back

Due to that possibility, I think lynching eevee is our best course of action.

If.....
Eevee flips SK, we rejoice with great rejoicing. I will Jailkeep faust, lynch him tomorrow, then we find a traitor among robz/schadd with 5 alive, only 1 scum

Eevee flips goon, I am scum, faust is Jailkeeper, he can hopefully block a kill and it is 5 town 2 scum. This will not occur.

Eevee flips town. We lose. Simple as that. Who wins between scum/sk? Not sure.

Eevee flips traitor. I Jailkeep faust, we know he is lying unless really weird kill choices and such occurred to prevent kills from happening. We will go into tomorrow 5/2, lynch faust, 3/1 lylo vs the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 04:01:27 pm
The things that have happened at night--mcmc dying, shots being blocked, gkrieg living--are not things that happen when Robz is scum, is the best thing I can say in my defense.

Eevee is right that I have avoided conflict, but I also avoided conflict in my last several town games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 04:02:23 pm
@Eevee @Robz
Can you both also answer the question of why you are the VT and the other two in (eevee, Robz, schadd) are scum?
It's really hard to do that! In the last post I already gave my thoughts for why Robz makes sense for a SK. For myself, I know my play has been a little lackluster, at least for me it's harder to stay engaged as a VT. I think I would have faked more reads or content as scum, looking back I'm surprised I skated by this far without really doing much.

Oh, one other argument, Robz is a pretty common night kill (and we even had two once), whenever he lives this long, he is more likely to be scum. Especially with the kills this far having been a VT claimed and out of left field - Andrew.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 04:03:38 pm
Oh, one other argument, Robz is a pretty common night kill (and we even had two once), whenever he lives this long, he is more likely to be scum. Especially with the kills this far having been a VT claimed and out of left field - Andrew.

This just isn't true! I live unbelievably long, very often now. I'm naturally suspicious, and I'm not super threatening townie, so when I'm town the scum just let me live.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 04:04:26 pm
Robz claiming VT seems SK'y as well. Kind of feel dumb for missing this. Especially for Robz, as the SK avoiding the night kill would be a big big priority. What better way than an early VT claim? Robz doesn't tend to claim early (or VT) in my experience.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 04:04:56 pm
Oh, one other argument, Robz is a pretty common night kill (and we even had two once), whenever he lives this long, he is more likely to be scum. Especially with the kills this far having been a VT claimed and out of left field - Andrew.

This just isn't true! I live unbelievably long, very often now. I'm naturally suspicious, and I'm not super threatening townie, so when I'm town the scum just let me live.
Well, yeah! You are scum every other game, and usually do very well!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 04:09:15 pm
Robz claiming VT seems SK'y as well. Kind of feel dumb for missing this. Especially for Robz, as the SK avoiding the night kill would be a big big priority. What better way than an early VT claim? Robz doesn't tend to claim early (or VT) in my experience.

I mean, I claimed what I am, and I did it because I was L-1ed. I think.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 04:14:47 pm
This has got to be one of the more insane Day 3s ever.
from just now

This is so insane.
from m90. similar situation


fortunately my position is out already
kkrieg: [...] mostly she has done a few things that would be rather unintuitive for a first-time scum performance on forum: this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17134.msg688194#msg688194) in particular is just exactly how town feels there, and is the kind of emotional segue you see from experienced scum players (robz does this an asston, see end of m90) but it would be so hard to think to do unless you've seen people do it and get townread for it. a few other posts have given me this same impression.
from nm10


i don't think he bothers to say that as town, whereas he says that as scum as a filler of sorts
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 04:16:02 pm
This has got to be one of the more insane Day 3s ever.
from just now

This is so insane.
from m90. similar situation


fortunately my position is out already
kkrieg: [...] mostly she has done a few things that would be rather unintuitive for a first-time scum performance on forum: this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17134.msg688194#msg688194) in particular is just exactly how town feels there, and is the kind of emotional segue you see from experienced scum players (robz does this an asston, see end of m90) but it would be so hard to think to do unless you've seen people do it and get townread for it. a few other posts have given me this same impression.
from nm10


i don't think he bothers to say that as town, whereas he says that as scum as a filler of sorts
if i ever use that for nefarious purposes please mail me anthrax
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 04:16:49 pm
Robz claiming VT seems SK'y as well. Kind of feel dumb for missing this. Especially for Robz, as the SK avoiding the night kill would be a big big priority. What better way than an early VT claim? Robz doesn't tend to claim early (or VT) in my experience.

I mean, I claimed what I am, and I did it because I was L-1ed. I think.
Sure. How is the VT claim evidence of you not being the SK? What other role (or type of other role)  would you have claimed if you were the SK?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on May 05, 2017, 04:44:08 pm
And bring me too because I am about ready to claim IC status.

You should have done that yesterday....no one will believe you today

I hadn't earned it yet. Now we know schadd, Eevee, and either you or faust are scum.

We really need to lynch the SK here, right? Because there could still be two kills tonight, otherwise. We can't count on the JK if we still have the SK, the SK could still have Strongman. Strongman punches through JK, right?

Yes.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 04:59:20 pm
Robz claiming VT seems SK'y as well. Kind of feel dumb for missing this. Especially for Robz, as the SK avoiding the night kill would be a big big priority. What better way than an early VT claim? Robz doesn't tend to claim early (or VT) in my experience.

I mean, I claimed what I am, and I did it because I was L-1ed. I think.
Sure. How is the VT claim evidence of you not being the SK? What other role (or type of other role)  would you have claimed if you were the SK?

Honestly if I were the SK I think I would have claimed VT, but I also think anyone else playing competently would do so as well. This is not a fake claim friendly setup.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 05, 2017, 05:00:11 pm
I'm at work so I just skimmed everything. I'll catch up tonight.
For the record I think I believe gkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 05:02:28 pm
I'm at work so I just skimmed everything. I'll catch up tonight.
For the record I think I believe gkrieg

Don't think you believe him, just believe him!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2017, 05:04:09 pm
I'm at work so I just skimmed everything. I'll catch up tonight.
For the record I think I believe gkrieg

haha babe.  You don't have a choice [cat yawning emoji]
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 05:27:31 pm
It's always fun to see how those closest to us are ultimately the hardest to completely trust in these games.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 07:30:21 pm
Robz claiming VT seems SK'y as well. Kind of feel dumb for missing this. Especially for Robz, as the SK avoiding the night kill would be a big big priority. What better way than an early VT claim? Robz doesn't tend to claim early (or VT) in my experience.

I mean, I claimed what I am, and I did it because I was L-1ed. I think.
You weren't.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 05, 2017, 07:33:30 pm
Eevee flips goon, I am scum, faust is Jailkeeper, he can hopefully block a kill and it is 5 town 2 scum. This will not occur.
Except it will, Traitor!you blocks me and there are two kills.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 07:54:05 pm
Eevee flips goon, I am scum, faust is Jailkeeper, he can hopefully block a kill and it is 5 town 2 scum. This will not occur.
Except it will, Traitor!you blocks me and there are two kills.

JK!you jails me and it blocks the kill that I would have inherited from regular mafia.....so only one kill will occur that night.

Except that won't happen because you are the goon not eevee.

What would you propose as a course of action?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 07:58:48 pm
Man, e, why are you so convinced I'm scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 08:00:11 pm
Man, e, why are you so convinced I'm scum?

PoE and that case I made against you on D2.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 08:05:12 pm
everybody make sure not to say anything about an n3 kill target
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 05, 2017, 08:11:57 pm
Vote: eevee

Fausts response to my analysis concerning lynching eevee betrays his unwillingness to prove the veracity of his claim. Lynching eevee is the best option.

I still don't know who I think is scum between Robz and schadd, but eevee is scum.



Oh, and faust is scum too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 08:34:41 pm
down to lynch eevee.


fwiw the (primary) reason i scumread gkrieg was because he hadn't townread anyone & i expected him to do a bunch of that early (was conflating him with faust kinda)


also 112 & 114 sounded uh something or other by tone whereas i remembered towngkrieg being kinda toneless
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 08:40:59 pm

looking at old posts
whether it's cool depends on your alignment this game. leaning towards not cool

False, it's cool anyway.
i read that as "it's cool even though i'm scum." i mean i still hope (and somewhat believe) that it was a joke/different interpretation but i felt that "not cool" => "not also town" was intuitive
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 08:44:24 pm
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
!!
they aren't scumteam unfortunately but it still makes sense for them to possibly quickhammer here
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 05, 2017, 08:45:32 pm
down to lynch eevee.


fwiw the (primary) reason i scumread gkrieg was because he hadn't townread anyone & i expected him to do a bunch of that early (was conflating him with faust kinda)


also 112 & 114 sounded uh something or other by tone whereas i remembered towngkrieg being kinda toneless
Hey, why me and not Robz?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 08:55:14 pm
i think town's chances improve more if sk is lynched than groupscum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 09:16:18 pm
I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother.
parallels
That leaves Lalight and Space and honestly, you two are kinda of combining together a bit.
On a serious note, me and Space are really good friends so we kinda combine together (if I understood correctly what you meant).
lalight/space was the team there


different people but same partner tell, they feel a need to explain something that might seem partner-y (note that both posts didn't offer explanation for other phenomena mentioned)


also, kinda similar people now that i think about it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 09:17:12 pm
granted that relies on an assumption robz is the goon
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 05, 2017, 09:24:21 pm
Well the good thing about this plan is that it is guaranteed to hit scum. But I kind of think schadd is the SK, not Eevee. And schadd's willingness to go along with this sort of confirms this.

Probably have to do some more thinking about how catastrophic it would be to lynch mafia instead of SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 09:29:00 pm
Maybe I am getting better at reading schadd? I can understand about 95% of what he is saying. Or is that scum indicative of him?
Interested in his flip in this game, what if not being cryptic is his scumtell (aka kryptonite)?

looks not!scum. sort of an unintuitive thought to be faked, and scum knows i'm town a bit more than sk


And schadd's willingness to go along with this sort of confirms this.
blahbdy blahbdy blah
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 05, 2017, 09:35:26 pm
why so loose with bringing up buddying? scum narrative could be maintaining the idea in people's head that that's a scummy behavior eevee often exhibits, hoping someone will bite.

It just seems like a strange thing from schadd.  Still not sure if any of this means anything.  If I were a vig, I would consider shooting him (checked the setup and there isn't a vig possible).
oh yeah this. sounded like kill coordination, but i should have realized scumgkrieg is combing his posts for stuff that sounds traitory lm@0000
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 04:54:08 am
JK!you jails me and it blocks the kill that I would have inherited from regular mafia.....so only one kill will occur that night.
The rules are unclear about what happens here.

LaLight, which action takes precedence, the Jailkeeper or the Mafia Roleblocker?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on May 06, 2017, 06:15:39 am
JK!you jails me and it blocks the kill that I would have inherited from regular mafia.....so only one kill will occur that night.
The rules are unclear about what happens here.

LaLight, which action takes precedence, the Jailkeeper or the Mafia Roleblocker?

In case if Roleblocker blocks Jailkeeper and makes the kill while being Jailkept, kill goes through.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:21:37 am
So there's that plan out of the window. It's between schadd and Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:22:17 am
Plus: We can still lynch Eevee tomorrow if we get the SK now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:29:21 am
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
!!
they aren't scumteam unfortunately but it still makes sense for them to possibly quickhammer here
This looks pretty bad given the circumstances.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:33:21 am
I also want to look into explanations of missing nightkills that do not require Eevee to be scum.

Like, N1 scum could have shot the SK or the Traitor. D2 the SK could have used another power. I feel like Eevee being the goon is still the most likely explanation, but I want to see if there's another narrative.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 06, 2017, 07:14:18 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 07:19:27 am
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
!!
they aren't scumteam unfortunately but it still makes sense for them to possibly quickhammer here
This looks pretty bad given the circumstances.
i mean they can't actually quickhammer right now
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 07:31:26 am
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
!!
they aren't scumteam unfortunately but it still makes sense for them to possibly quickhammer here
This looks pretty bad given the circumstances.
i mean they can't actually quickhammer right now
Right. Somehow I was under the impression that you had voted for Eevee too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 06, 2017, 07:37:00 am
Vote count 3.1

Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Robz888 (1): Eevee

Not voting (5): Robz888, schadd, gkrieg13, kkrieg, faust

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday, 12th of May at 1 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 07:41:44 am
I really want gkrieg and kkrieg to pull off a quickhammer together just so that we can call it blitzkrieg.
!!
they aren't scumteam unfortunately but it still makes sense for them to possibly quickhammer here
This looks pretty bad given the circumstances.
i mean they can't actually quickhammer right now
Right. Somehow I was under the impression that you had voted for Eevee too.
it is believable that you were under that impression.


i was picturing them talking a while when the game approaches standstill and then quickhammering after they reach a conclusion. which i guess isn't especially quick other than the hammer part
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 07:45:10 am
Well, I hope we don't lynch Eevee as the wil most likely lead us into a kingmaker scenario. That is apparently e's goal, and understandbly so.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 07:46:55 am
is that assuming eevee town?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 08:20:11 am
is that assuming eevee town?
No, it's assuming Eevee Goon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 08:22:06 am
Lynch Eevee -> 6 p. Traitor can successfully block JK, no matter what they do (confirmed by LaLight). Only thing that needs to happen is SK and Traitor shoot two different townies, then we're at 4 alive, 2 scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 09:17:12 am
@LaLight

Well I will wait on kkrieg to come in here and see the light, thank you very much.

to come here and join you on another attempted mislynch, you mean.  She helped mislynch Awaclus and TWM, you are hoping for one more.  I know based on my PR that you are scum.  So unless you have some good results that you are town that override my results.....it will be hard to convince me you are town.
You know based on your PR that I am scum?

Vote: e that's not possible.

Faust is voting for me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 09:25:48 am
I unvoted.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 09:53:00 am
faust, what are you supposing e is?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 09:55:56 am
faust, what are you supposing e is?
The Traitor most likely.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 09:57:04 am
Actually I had a twist in my thoughts... we can just lynche hee, right? Then I can block Eevee again and we should be fine.

That is supposing Eevee is the Goon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 10:02:54 am
Actually I had a twist in my thoughts... we can just lynche hee, right? Then I can block Eevee again and we should be fine.

That is supposing Eevee is the Goon.

What now?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:04:04 am
We can just lynch e is what I meant to say and what somehow came out that way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 10:07:05 am
We can just lynch e is what I meant to say and what somehow came out that way.

We would have to believe you over E, though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:10:44 am
Well there's always a catch.

But since the alternative lynch may very well be you, maybe you can warm up to the idea.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:25:18 am
Actually I had a twist in my thoughts... we can just lynche hee, right? Then I can block Eevee again and we should be fine.

That is supposing Eevee is the Goon.

I already explained this to you earlier. Catch up, if you were the real JK you would have thought of this already
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:28:02 am
From fausts perspective-
SK and traitor exist in {e, Robz, schadd}
If Robz is town, e is SK and schadd is traitor
If e is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or e could be SK/traitor.

You, as JK, want to lynch in this pool.

You don't want to (and should never have been ok with) lynching eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:29:32 am
Except you aren't the JK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:30:08 am
You don't want to (and should never have been ok with) lynching eevee
Yes. I never have been.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:31:23 am
I already explained this to you earlier. Catch up, if you were the real JK you would have thought of this already
If I was scum fakeclaiming JK, I would have thought of this already.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:32:14 am
From fausts perspective-
SK and traitor exist in {e, Robz, schadd}
If Robz is town, e is SK and schadd is traitor
If e is town, Robz is SK and schadd is traitor
If schadd is town, Robz or e could be SK/traitor.

You, as JK, want to lynch in this pool.

You don't want to (and should never have been ok with) lynching eevee
Also, "if e is town" does not make any sense from my perspective.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:40:47 am
This is a really interesting exchange between Faust and myself (starts a little earlier, ends a little later) where we are talking about who the SK is and such. Faust believes TWM is the SK, while I believe it is kkrieg (with Faust as the goon). I highlighted the other individuals Faust was considering scummy at the time, you know, like eevee, who he allegedly jailkept.....oh wait.....

Basically, faust is not scum hunting, he is SK-hunting. Which I think is scummy.

That being said, let's lynch the SK first, then we can lynch faust tomorrow
You are SK-hunting! You're scummy. ..

Did I do that right?

Like you, I have ideas for who the other mafia is. Like you, I think lynching the SK is better. Not sure where the difference is here.

Also you jump from "faust is scummy because he thinks TWM is mafia" to "faust is scummy because he thinks TWM is the SK" without blinking. You didn't stop for a minute to think how this should change your read on me.

I am not talking as much about who mcmc's partner is because I think the evidence against TWM is much stronger than against Robz or kkrieg.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:44:22 am
Well we already know that for some reason you think that if you jailkeep someone and then there's no death, this is definite proof that the player in question is scum. I don't think the setup warrants that even remotely.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:45:33 am
Which you know, you would have realized if you were the actual JK and not just fakeclaiming to frame someone.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:46:26 am
Shortly after this he does his eevee re-read because he "doesn't remember eevee at all (already quoted this post).

But I was looking that up to say:

I already explained this to you earlier. Catch up, if you were the real JK you would have thought of this already
If I was scum fakeclaiming JK, I would have thought of this already.

I had thought of the fact that we need to lynch SK and find traitor over lynching the goon yesterday. It's only a new idea to you because you just thought of your claim last night or earlier todat
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:49:25 am
Well we already know that for some reason you think that if you jailkeep someone and then there's no death, this is definite proof that the player in question is scum. I don't think the setup warrants that even remotely.

No, I jailkept someone twice, with no death twice.

While I spent some time voting for you yesterday, I consistently looked for alternative wagons because I wanted to prove my theory.

Look at any game. I always overstate my cases and appear overconfident in them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:50:20 am
I had thought of the fact that we need to lynch SK and find traitor over lynching the goon yesterday. It's only a new idea to you because you just thought of your claim last night or earlier todat
What? I thought of the same thing. I pushed for the person I thought was the SK over the person I thought was the Goon.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:51:19 am
Well we already know that for some reason you think that if you jailkeep someone and then there's no death, this is definite proof that the player in question is scum. I don't think the setup warrants that even remotely.

No, I jailkept someone twice, with no death twice.
Yeah, now you're talking about N2 evidence to justify your D2 read.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 10:52:32 am
Also I even said the exact things at the start of D2.

Also there clearly was a blocked kill. That can be any of SK/1-shot BP/JK/Traitor uwittingly blocking their partner, so I'm not sure if a claim helps us here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 10:54:36 am
Basically, faust is not scum hunting, he is SK-hunting. Which I think is scummy.

That being said, let's lynch the SK first, then we can lynch faust tomorrow

Well, and you were being scummy for fabricating a case against TWM
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 11:00:10 am
I should do that reads list schadd asked for. Will include kkrieg's pre-claim position for completeness.

Since SK and mafia reads are substantially different, I will give them separately. Scores will be x / y where x and y are number between 0 and 10. 10 means definitely [mafia for X/SK for y], 5 means neutral, 0 means definitely not that. Maybe it would make sense to include a separate Traitor category. Actually, with kkrieg's claim, we know that either Traitor knows Mafia or they don't know about each other. I don't think I will go through the trouble of separating these.

Well, here we go!

Robz888 - 4 / 7 [slightly unlikely to be mafia, mostly due to activity level and content, which I think would be higher then. It's good for an SK trying to stay under the radar a bit and to not get shot. Also mcmc at least has a connection to Robz, so that kill would make some sense.]
The_Wine_Merchant - 3 / 9 [I kinda doubt that mcmc and TWM would go for hard bussing. Reasons for being SK have been explained.]
schadd - 6 / 2 [Uncomfortable position for an SK - exposed and both likely to get lynched and nightkilled. As scum I could see him doing that more.]
Eevee - 8 / 2 [See Eevee reread; the way he treats the mcmc wagon is extremely suspicious, plus showing no interest to investigate that wagon today. I don't think SK!Eevee shoots mcmc.]
gkrieg13 - 3 / 4 [Overall townie read, but nothing stands out to make him obvtown. D1 suggests he's not mcmc's partner.]
AndrewisFTTW - 5 / 4 [Mostly neutral. Was slightly scummy on mcmc IIRC, but then later it seemed he didn't think about the setup at all, which he would have done as scum and as the SK.]
2.71828..... -  e / e ... no, just kidding. Similar though, maybe 4 / 4 [I cannot really speak to him, I think I need to reread. He's made a townie impression, but that's just based on tone.]
kkrieg - 6 / 7 [I thought that she had some kind of role without a partner. SK or Traitor made sense. Now she's town unless we get a counterclaim, which I sort of doubt.]

You should really work on those fakeclaims.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:09:02 am
Ok. Kkrieg would you like me to do a summary post for you?  It might be easier if there is a short post to bring you up to speed.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 11:10:26 am
Ok. Kkrieg would you like me to do a summary post for you?  It might be easier if there is a short post to bring you up to speed.

is she on the computer in the other room?  Haha
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 06, 2017, 11:14:36 am
Ok. Kkrieg would you like me to do a summary post for you?  It might be easier if there is a short post to bring you up to speed.
...yes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:22:42 am
Okay, I just re-read this day, and I feel like I have a stronger grasp of what's happening now. Stronger than I did when I was frantically trying to keep up on my phone.

It seems decently likely to me that E is town and faust is lying. Faust cannot be the SK, so he must be the Goon.

Gkrieg's result means that schadd is much less likely to be the SK than Eevee. This is a little vexing, I can remember losing Mafia 40 to Serial Killer Axxle because I ruled him out as SK very early on, because of a night action sequence that made him much less likely to be SK than everyone else. But okay, it's more likely to be Eevee. That makes schadd the unrecruited Traitor.

If faust were telling the truth rather than E, Eevee couldn't be the SK because he was jailed on Night 1, and also schadd would still be unlikely to be the SK because of gkrieg's result. Which leaves... me. But I'm not the SK. Ergo, E being truthful is more plausible to me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:24:23 am
Oh, wait a minute, in the "faust tells the truth" scenario, it's possible E is himself the Serial Killer, right?

So we should lynch Eevee if faust is lying, and we should lynch E if faust is telling the truth.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:25:56 am
Well, lynching Eevee is less of a risk, since Eevee IS some kind of scum, whereas E could be either scum or town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:28:58 am
Ok short and sweet one for the mechanics stuff.

So we know the setup exactly from the roles everyone has claimed. Both you and I have had no one to counterclaim us, so we are confirmed town. There is a 0% chance either of us is scum.

I claimed Detective (who targets someone at night and gets the result of if they have killed or not killed)
Both of e and Faust claimed Jailkeeper (I think you know this one from your newbie game.)

Eevee, Robz, and schadd all claimed VT(vanilla townie).

So we know one of e and Faust is scum (because there is only one JK, so one of them is lying)

And we know two of the "VTs" is lying. Because the setup we are in only has one VT left alive.

"Scum" in this case is a traitor, who knew his mafia partners, but they didn't know him. A mafia goon, and a SK.

As the detective, I targeted schadd N1 and Faust N2 and got that neither of them had killed. But the problem with that is that the SK can choose one night to be investigation immune, so it is possible that schadd is still the SK even though I saw that he didn't kill. We know that the SK did actually kill N1 because mafia died. E is claiming that he JKd Faust both nights which would mean that he wouldn't have killed (assuming mafias kill was blocked N2 which might not even be the case. ), which means my results don't really say Faust is confirmed town.

Faust is saying he JKd Eevee both nights, which could explain that Eevee is the mafia goon and why we have only gotten one kill each night.

The problem with looking in to all these night actions is that there is no sure thing. I want to believe from my result that schadd is town, but it is possible that he used his investigation immunity N1. Otherwise, he can't be the SK.

Anyway, it means we just need to find the town in Robz, Eevee, schadd and lynch them today!  So just reread those three and rate them from townie still to scummiest.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:31:23 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 11:31:57 am
Anyway, it means we just need to find the town in Robz, Eevee, schadd and lynch them today!
I advise against this course of action.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:34:25 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Ah, okay, sure.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 11:34:50 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 11:36:33 am
I should do that reads list schadd asked for. Will include kkrieg's pre-claim position for completeness.

Since SK and mafia reads are substantially different, I will give them separately. Scores will be x / y where x and y are number between 0 and 10. 10 means definitely [mafia for X/SK for y], 5 means neutral, 0 means definitely not that. Maybe it would make sense to include a separate Traitor category. Actually, with kkrieg's claim, we know that either Traitor knows Mafia or they don't know about each other. I don't think I will go through the trouble of separating these.

Well, here we go!

Robz888 - 4 / 7 [slightly unlikely to be mafia, mostly due to activity level and content, which I think would be higher then. It's good for an SK trying to stay under the radar a bit and to not get shot. Also mcmc at least has a connection to Robz, so that kill would make some sense.]
The_Wine_Merchant - 3 / 9 [I kinda doubt that mcmc and TWM would go for hard bussing. Reasons for being SK have been explained.]
schadd - 6 / 2 [Uncomfortable position for an SK - exposed and both likely to get lynched and nightkilled. As scum I could see him doing that more.]
Eevee - 8 / 2 [See Eevee reread; the way he treats the mcmc wagon is extremely suspicious, plus showing no interest to investigate that wagon today. I don't think SK!Eevee shoots mcmc.]
gkrieg13 - 3 / 4 [Overall townie read, but nothing stands out to make him obvtown. D1 suggests he's not mcmc's partner.]
AndrewisFTTW - 5 / 4 [Mostly neutral. Was slightly scummy on mcmc IIRC, but then later it seemed he didn't think about the setup at all, which he would have done as scum and as the SK.]
2.71828..... -  e / e ... no, just kidding. Similar though, maybe 4 / 4 [I cannot really speak to him, I think I need to reread. He's made a townie impression, but that's just based on tone.]
kkrieg - 6 / 7 [I thought that she had some kind of role without a partner. SK or Traitor made sense. Now she's town unless we get a counterclaim, which I sort of doubt.]

You should really work on those fakeclaims.

wait, I think I read this backwards.  reading is hard
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:38:22 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:38:43 am
Anyway, it means we just need to find the town in Robz, Eevee, schadd and lynch them today!
I advise against this course of action.

Haha good thing I'm IC!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:38:47 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

Something else = strongman
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:39:13 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

They can give up their kill to perform any PR
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:39:39 am
Anyway, it means we just need to find the town in Robz, Eevee, schadd and lynch them today!
I advise against this course of action.

Haha good thing I'm IC!

Kkrieg, ignore the IC, who wants us to find the townie and kill them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:40:53 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

They can give up their kill to perform any PR

In addition to being JOAT?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:41:09 am
KIILLLL ALLLLL TOOOWWNNNIEESSS!!!!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 11:41:28 am
KIILLLL ALLLLL TOOOWWNNNIEESSS!!!!!!!  ;D

Isn't it nice to be IC?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:41:35 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

They can give up their kill to perform any PR

In addition to being JOAT?

Better believe it!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 11:41:50 am
KIILLLL ALLLLL TOOOWWNNNIEESSS!!!!!!!  ;D

Isn't it nice to be IC?

Better believe it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:42:23 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

They can give up their kill to perform any PR

In addition to being JOAT?

Better believe it!

Oh. Well, okay. This setup makes my head hurt.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 11:42:46 am
Why do you say the traitor is unrecruited?  It's still possible that the traitor was recruited N1 and then both SK and mafia shot Andrew

Alternatively, the SK could have Commuted or something on N2.

No. Don't we know it's the SK with 1shot investigation immunity and BP and something else?

They can give up their kill to perform any PR

In addition to being JOAT?

Does SK!Robz fake not knowing his role here?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 11:48:56 am
does skrobz actually know his role?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 11:58:24 am
I got it in my head that it was one or the other, owing to the confusing way "2-Shot JOAT" in the rows/columns actually refers to the Mafia JOAT, not the 2-shot JOAT SK, who actually has three things. Carry on.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 12:20:05 pm
Lynch Eevee -> 6 p. Traitor can successfully block JK, no matter what they do (confirmed by LaLight). Only thing that needs to happen is SK and Traitor shoot two different townies, then we're at 4 alive, 2 scum.

yes, which is a losing situation for the traitor, so I have no clue why traitor!e would be pushing for that.  Makes no sense.  The SK can win here, but not mafia.  Actually, it is a kingmaker situation, which just sucks.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 01:16:09 pm
Lynch Eevee -> 6 p. Traitor can successfully block JK, no matter what they do (confirmed by LaLight). Only thing that needs to happen is SK and Traitor shoot two different townies, then we're at 4 alive, 2 scum.

yes, which is a losing situation for the traitor, so I have no clue why traitor!e would be pushing for that.  Makes no sense.  The SK can win here, but not mafia.  Actually, it is a kingmaker situation, which just sucks.

But the JKing should go through. It says that actions in the same level of the action resolution phase happen simultaneously
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 01:19:23 pm
Order of Operations: (roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)
Modifiers (Ninja/Strongman)
Commuter
Blocking (Jailkeeper, Roleblocking)
Protective (Bodyguard, Bulletproof)
Killing
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 01:29:46 pm
JK!you jails me and it blocks the kill that I would have inherited from regular mafia.....so only one kill will occur that night.
The rules are unclear about what happens here.

LaLight, which action takes precedence, the Jailkeeper or the Mafia Roleblocker?

In case if Roleblocker blocks Jailkeeper and makes the kill while being Jailkept, kill goes through.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 01:30:16 pm
I disagree with the ruling, but that is the ruling that was made
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 01:34:48 pm
that's the matrix6 ruling on MS
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 01:39:43 pm
Ah didn't see the ruling. Also don't agree with it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 01:43:20 pm
Well I don't agree with "simultaneous execution". There's no such thing, and it should not have been in the OP.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 01:45:54 pm
Well I don't agree with "simultaneous execution". There's no such thing, and it should not have been in the OP.

It just means that they happen at the same time.  Either way, with conflicting actions, it should be town that gets precedence IMO.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 04:46:02 pm
Well, everyone has said everything?

@the kriegs (g and k)
From want to lynch to don't want to lynch, how do you rank eevee, robz, schadd, and myself?

I feel like we are at a point where we can just run in circles all day. And as much as everyone else says, it all comes down to who the two of you want to lynch. I would rather move the game forward and get a lynch done then sit around and do nothing for a while.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2017, 05:42:03 pm
Vote: Eevee

It seems like this is the least stupid lynch. Eevee is for sure scum of some kind (although the kriegs can't know that), whereas lynching E could possibly be lynching the JK. I can't see us losing, really, if we lynch Eevee. Or at least the situation looks most favorable that way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 06:35:35 pm
we probably oughtn't put him at l-1 any time soon (though i don't think anyone not boring would do so)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 06, 2017, 06:36:33 pm
anyone not boring
ha. anyone not voting
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:37:41 pm
Well, everyone has said everything?
No.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 06, 2017, 06:39:35 pm
Lynch Eevee -> 6 p. Traitor can successfully block JK, no matter what they do (confirmed by LaLight). Only thing that needs to happen is SK and Traitor shoot two different townies, then we're at 4 alive, 2 scum.

yes, which is a losing situation for the traitor
No.

But yes, it's no a paticularly good situation either.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 09:24:31 pm
Thinking through the ruling on roleblocking some more....


Basically it boils down to the fact the we have to lynch the SK in order to win the game.  If we do not scum is guaranteed to have two kills tonight (unless they target the same person for the NK).  Doesn't matter if we lynch the goon or the traitor, goon will adopt RB, traitor will adopt kill.  Either way we have a mafia roleblocker and a SK alive tonight ready to kill people

One note for the SK: If we don't lynch you, tonight is your opportunity to kill the goon.  I will jailkeep him, and unless mafia doesn't want to kill someone, they will roleblock me.  It is risky because then you will be down to lylo and you could lose, but it is better than a kingmaking situation, where no one goes away happy.  Let me play this out a bit.  Other people, please check my work.

Lynch mafia (traitor or goon).  we go into night with 6 alive, 1 SK, 1 RB mafia.  Assume the RB and JK effectively negate each other, leaving scum (except possibly a still-BP SK) able to kill anyone and be killed themselves.

Lets remind ourselves of the win cons:
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
   * If the Traitor is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
   * If either original mafia are the last mafia alive, the SK will win.

If SK and mafia kill two townies- 2 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK.  Does not meet the win con yet, we need a lynch.  Basically, town has to choose the winner - SK or mafia.  I hate this situation.  You should too.  You should want to win.

If SK and mafia kill the same townie (or scum shoots a still BP SK, or someone shoots kkrieg who commutes tonight, or whatever might cause only one town death)- 3 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK.  This is good for town, meh for the SK and the mafia.  We will be able to lynch scum and move on to lylo, where town hopefully prevails

If SK kills mafia and mafia kills town- 3 town, 1 SK.  mylo.  This is what a SK lives for.  Winning at mylo.  Unfortunately, I think towns chances of winning here are great, but still this is best case for the SK.


Ok, so not as terrible for town as I thought, but it is a grim situation for scum right now.  I can see SK or town winning if we lynch a mafia member (traitor or goon).

Still best if we lynch SK.


someone double check me please.  I stepped away to cook dinner throughout typing this post, probably has some sort of error. 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 06, 2017, 09:55:41 pm
Little easier scenario:

Lynch the SK

scum performs their kill because they RB the JK, cancelling out those roles.

so tomorrow we have:

3 town 2 scum.  We lynch the known bad guy (myself or faust), then proceed to lylo with the last scum.  Pretty straightforward and actually a scenario that scum likes the best.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 06, 2017, 10:46:30 pm
I'll get around to reading later. Obviously there is lots of time until the deadline.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 06, 2017, 10:48:02 pm
Right now I am most inclined to vote Faust.

It's my birthday weekend so sorry for the absence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 07, 2017, 07:44:26 am
Vote count 3.2

Eevee (2): 2,71828....., Robz888
Robz888 (1): Eevee

Not voting (4): schadd, gkrieg13, kkrieg, faust

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday, 12th of May at 1 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 07, 2017, 11:53:07 pm
Bump. Would rather this game not stall out on day 3
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 08, 2017, 03:37:33 am
Well. It's clear now that we need to lynch among Robz/schadd. I will postpone any e cases and such until D4.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 08:23:51 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 08:31:34 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

If the traitor isn't faust, and doesn't get lynched right now, and already was recruited, you mean?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 08:55:26 am
i meant d1/2
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 08:55:41 am
or, n1/2
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 09:58:53 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

Sorry, kkriegs birthday was yesterday, so I'll get to this today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 10:02:31 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

Sorry, kkriegs birthday was yesterday, so I'll get to this today or tomorrow.

How about now? I honestly don't think the town can lose here, unless it lynches town (and even then we might be okay). Both Eevee and schadd are definitely not town; Eevee is more likely to be SK. We should lynch Eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 10:04:02 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

Sorry, kkriegs birthday was yesterday, so I'll get to this today or tomorrow.

How about now? I honestly don't think the town can lose here, unless it lynches town (and even then we might be okay). Both Eevee and schadd are definitely not town; Eevee is more likely to be SK. We should lynch Eevee.

I have a final in 3 hours  ;D
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 10:09:41 am
I agree this seems mostly a krieg - affair for today.

Any questions or something, though? I don't have any points I haven't already made.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 10:10:16 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

Sorry, kkriegs birthday was yesterday, so I'll get to this today or tomorrow.

How about now? I honestly don't think the town can lose here, unless it lynches town (and even then we might be okay). Both Eevee and schadd are definitely not town; Eevee is more likely to be SK. We should lynch Eevee.
I agree completely! Just switch Eevee to Robz, really.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 10:11:21 am
Fondly do I remember the earlier days when everyone was somehow correctly reading me despite me not really doing that much to warrant it.


Good luck in your finals, gkrieg!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 10:11:47 am
By the way, can others see my avatar?

Has someone been purging the internet of cute pokemon images again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 08, 2017, 11:07:58 am
I agree this seems mostly a krieg - affair for today.

Any questions or something, though? I don't have any points I haven't already made.

That's kind of lazy. Everyone who's not schadd or Robz should try to figure out who is the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 08, 2017, 11:08:14 am
By the way, can others see my avatar?

Has someone been purging the internet of cute pokemon images again?
I can see it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 01:12:08 pm
I agree this seems mostly a krieg - affair for today.

Any questions or something, though? I don't have any points I haven't already made.

That's kind of lazy. Everyone who's not schadd or Robz should try to figure out who is the SK.
SK's are hard to find. I outlined my reasons why I think Robz is more likely.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 01:19:51 pm
I agree this seems mostly a krieg - affair for today.

Any questions or something, though? I don't have any points I haven't already made.

That's kind of lazy. Everyone who's not schadd or Robz should try to figure out who is the SK.
SK's are hard to find. I outlined my reasons why I think Robz is more likely.

I am NOT the Serial Killer; it's E, Eevee, or schadd. I admit, schadd is less likely, though I am really wary of losing to an SK!schadd they way I lost to SK!Axxle in Mafia 40, one of my greatest regret games. SK!Axxle seemed cleared because of an unlikely night action, but actually shouldn't have been.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 08, 2017, 01:30:19 pm
Well I am not either!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 08, 2017, 03:10:17 pm
Post. Everyone knows where I stand. If anyone has questions for me let me know.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 08, 2017, 03:50:35 pm
Gkrieg who are you voting?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 08, 2017, 03:50:55 pm
This setup is super confusing to me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 03:52:58 pm
Gkrieg who are you voting?
No one yet.  Still need to reread.

If you want something simple, reread Robz, Eevee, and schadd and tell me which is the towniest and which is the scummiest.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 05:10:30 pm
This setup is super confusing to me

It's going to get a lot less confusing after this lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 06:21:56 pm
Scummy from Robz D1.

Woo I'm here! Umm I guess I don't know why more people don't think twm is scummy because I do but maybe I'm wrong. Faust seems like Faust. I would say I feel like 2.7 is lurking more then robz because I feel like I can remember the things robz has said better but that probably just because he is my brother. I don't feel like much has happened yet.

Agreed. Townie post.

People who don't to explain stuff are usually town PRs, in my experience.

Well, I do not have scum reads. I have a big townread on Eevee, his post about worrying that people will see him as hedgy or buddying and suspect him for it seemed like the kind of self-aware thing you self-censor if you're scum.

Vote: Robz


This is an L-2 vote on me.

I guess I'm not the worst lynch ever, if that's what's going to happen. I am a Vanilla Townie.

I would go for E if the votes were there. If not I'll stick with Andrew. Awaclus is also fine. This does not feel like scum mcmc to me.

I am sort of inclined to go after one of the mcmc pile-on ers. But maybe avoiding mcmc's wagon was the safest thing for scum to do.

Boy, I have to learn how to read mcmc.

Rough night for scum.

Yes, TWM looks very bad in light of faust's analysis. Vote: TWM
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 06:32:41 pm
I know this explanation is grating, but it's the truth: as scum, I would never be in a position where I look so scummy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 06:37:22 pm
Scummy from Robz D2.

Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust

I don't think faust is acting like scum at all.

I'm sort of losing confidence in either TWM or kkrieg flipping scum. I don't know, TWM's righteous indignation about being suspected is all of a sudden feeling more townie to me. And when I called kkrieg out for not voting TWM yet, her reaction seemed pretty townie to me.

But I don't what the next best option would be.

A faust vote is better than a schadd vote.

Nah, I'd rather lynch you than faust.

I would lynch TWM, I guess, or schadd. Perhaps I'd lynch Eevee. In fact, sure, I'd lynch Eevee.

I'm just not a fan of this faust wagon. Gkrieg and kkrieg both seem like definitely town. Who does that leave? Andrew and 2.7, I'm leaning townier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 06:38:51 pm
Well I prefer a massclaim to lynching me.

I think you'll find "Robz being on all the wagons" is far more indicative of town Robz than scum Robz.

I want to keep in mind TWM's scumread was on faust, but it's almost pointless to speculate about who's scum until we massclaim. Although I see why it's possible to speculate about me. But nope, I'm just what I said I was.

Could you do this for me?  Could you see if from your last scum game and your last town game if you were on more mislynches per Day as town or as scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 06:51:39 pm
dylan and andrew. you decided andrew was a little townier.


why is it pointless to speculate scummos before massclaim?

Well it's not pointless, okay, I'm most suspicious of faust and schadd. What I mean is, now if we do this massclaim, turns out you are an unchallenged PR, the fact that I suspected you doesn't mean much. Maybe it means something to you, something about me.

Well, I'm not the Serial Killer, or a scum of any kind, so it would be really bad if we lynched me. How can I convince you, so that we don't lose?

I would not have killed mcmc, for one thing, as I think multiple people recognized. He had claimed VT, and also, it's mcmc. He's my brother. He's one of the players I'm more adept at manipulating. Having him dead isn't worth the WIFOM it would have bought me.

I am always a staunch advocate of shooting the gkriegs and fausts of the word, the fact that they are still alive should be good indication I have no killing power.

Killing mcmc, a claimed VT, is the sort of batty thing a schadd Serial Killer would do, I guess? I'm still unclear whether I have to presume schadd is the SK. It's because E says schadd can't be SK? But isn't E scum?

The things that have happened at night--mcmc dying, shots being blocked, gkrieg living--are not things that happen when Robz is scum, is the best thing I can say in my defense.

Eevee is right that I have avoided conflict, but I also avoided conflict in my last several town games.

Have you really been avoiding conflict in your past town games?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 06:53:13 pm
Well I prefer a massclaim to lynching me.

I think you'll find "Robz being on all the wagons" is far more indicative of town Robz than scum Robz.

I want to keep in mind TWM's scumread was on faust, but it's almost pointless to speculate about who's scum until we massclaim. Although I see why it's possible to speculate about me. But nope, I'm just what I said I was.

Could you do this for me?  Could you see if from your last scum game and your last town game if you were on more mislynches per Day as town or as scum?

Sure thing! Hold on.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 08:23:00 pm
Gkrieg asks me to prove that I'm more likely to join all the wagons and mislynch lots of people when I'm town. I can do that.

Mafia 97, in which I was a VT:
 I was on the Day 1 mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg685030#msg685030)
 I was on the Day 2 correct lynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg686088#msg686088)
 I was on the Day 3 mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg687894#msg687894)
 I was on the Day 4 mislynch wagon, which was just me and one other person, who was scum, and game over (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.900)

Mafia 96, in which I was also a VT:
 I was on the Day 1 mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg682370#msg682370)
 I was on the Day 2 mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg684336#msg684336)
 I was not on the correct Day 3 lynch wagon, which hit scum. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg685515#msg685515)
 I was on the Day 4 mislynch wagon, which was game over.

So there's two games I was town, lived to the end, and participated in 7/8 lynches, and I only correctly lynched scum once.

Compare that to Mafia 93, my last scum game. It was a short game. But you will see that [url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16794.msg671807#msg671807]I was not on the mislynch wagon Day 1. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg686308#msg686308) I also avoided the mislynch wagon on Day 2. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16794.msg672530#msg672530) And then it was game over after that, I win as scum.

So, I think that answers things pretty definitively. Town!Robz joins wagons with reckless abandon, scum!Robz calculates. And no, I did not know the immediate historical record would demonstrate this so obviously before I took a look.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 08:23:52 pm
I screwed up the quoting there a little bit, but you get it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 08:24:04 pm
*hyperlinking, not quoting
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 10:05:45 pm
I know this explanation is grating, but it's the truth: as scum, I would never be in a position where I look so scummy.
you usually aren't if you don't expect scum to get killed. in M92 you were all set up to be in okay shape but then oops we lynched gkrieg. this game you were set up to look fine and be on a mislynch you could probably talk yourself out of but oops mcmc got shot and so that didn't work out.


And no, I did not know the immediate historical record would demonstrate this so obviously before I took a look.
i don't buy it.
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
you didn't reply to this one but you replied to me replying to it.


like d2/3 m96 i made it painfully apparent that throwing effort and caution to the wind was town-indicative for you in the climate of the time, and it was a rather confident and accurate read (that i shouldn't have discarded). if you have that reputation there's no reason not to milk it like hell as scum. and it does work, like how you're not getting autolynched on d3 for proudly sporting your double-mislynch voting history, for example.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 10:08:41 pm
I know this explanation is grating, but it's the truth: as scum, I would never be in a position where I look so scummy.
you usually aren't if you don't expect scum to get killed. in M92 you were all set up to be in okay shape but then oops we lynched gkrieg. this game you were set up to look fine and be on a mislynch you could probably talk yourself out of but oops mcmc got shot and so that didn't work out.

That was so, so, so, so, so different, though. And it's obvious it was different, because it that situation I was truly screwed and was actually lynched on Day 2 because of how screwed I was. In this game, I survived Day 2 no problem.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 10:10:06 pm
And no, I did not know the immediate historical record would demonstrate this so obviously before I took a look.
i don't buy it.

It's absolutely true, I had no idea. I didn't even remember these games that well, since I was a VT and absent for stretches of them. I mean, I had no idea, clearly, that gkrieg was going to put me through that exercise.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 10:23:57 pm
I know this explanation is grating, but it's the truth: as scum, I would never be in a position where I look so scummy.
you usually aren't if you don't expect scum to get killed. in M92 you were all set up to be in okay shape but then oops we lynched gkrieg. this game you were set up to look fine and be on a mislynch you could probably talk yourself out of but oops mcmc got shot and so that didn't work out.

That was so, so, so, so, so different, though. And it's obvious it was different, because it that situation I was truly screwed and was actually lynched on Day 2 because of how screwed I was. In this game, I survived Day 2 no problem.
you did survive d2 this game by gunning for the one person in worse shape than you, yes (having learned from m92 that gunning for someone in better shape than you tends to not work). it's not like you went without being scumread, though, and here we are in day 3, wherein gkrieg (among others) is scumreading you, and he has an annoying tendency to be right.


And no, I did not know the immediate historical record would demonstrate this so obviously before I took a look.
i don't buy it.

It's absolutely true, I had no idea. I didn't even remember these games that well, since I was a VT and absent for stretches of them. I mean, I had no idea, clearly, that gkrieg was going to put me through that exercise.
i believe you that you didn't foresee gkrieg asking you to splay your town voting histories d3 of this game. but you're suggesting that you, as scum, would be unable of forming the game plan of "okay i'm just gonna vote towns and not bus and then point to my recent poor town performances and confuse people with my eloquence"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 08, 2017, 11:17:06 pm
I honestly think schadd is town here.

I also think faust is the scum in e/faust.

Which means Eevee/faust/Robz are the scum.  And the traitor knew the mafia.  Looking at those in a little bit.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on May 08, 2017, 11:30:43 pm
I honestly think schadd is town here.
hm.


okay, i believe you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 11:49:45 pm
I honestly think schadd is town here.

I also think faust is the scum in e/faust.

Which means Eevee/faust/Robz are the scum.  And the traitor knew the mafia.  Looking at those in a little bit.

Will you at least acknowledge that I completed your task? In a manner that screams "Robz is town!!!!'
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 08, 2017, 11:51:59 pm
I know this explanation is grating, but it's the truth: as scum, I would never be in a position where I look so scummy.
you usually aren't if you don't expect scum to get killed. in M92 you were all set up to be in okay shape but then oops we lynched gkrieg. this game you were set up to look fine and be on a mislynch you could probably talk yourself out of but oops mcmc got shot and so that didn't work out.

That was so, so, so, so, so different, though. And it's obvious it was different, because it that situation I was truly screwed and was actually lynched on Day 2 because of how screwed I was. In this game, I survived Day 2 no problem.
you did survive d2 this game by gunning for the one person in worse shape than you, yes (having learned from m92 that gunning for someone in better shape than you tends to not work). it's not like you went without being scumread, though, and here we are in day 3, wherein gkrieg (among others) is scumreading you, and he has an annoying tendency to be right.

Now you're buddying an IC. Gkrieg is a great player but he gets things wrong, too. In Mafia 97, he was no more right about anything than I was, and I was wrong about most things.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 01:21:32 am
I honestly think schadd is town here.

I also think faust is the scum in e/faust.

Which means Eevee/faust/Robz are the scum.  And the traitor knew the mafia.  Looking at those in a little bit.

Will you at least acknowledge that I completed your task? In a manner that screams "Robz is town!!!!'

I acknowledge you did it!  You're super townie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :-\ :P :P :P ??? :o ;D
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 09, 2017, 05:34:32 am
Impressive stats, but being cognizant of his own current meta and being able to manipulate it has always been scumRobz's#1 strength. But I guess it colors my analysis a little I know him to be scum.

@gkrieg
Noooo!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 05:50:29 am
Impressive stats, but being cognizant of his own current meta and being able to manipulate it has always been scumRobz's#1 strength. But I guess it colors my analysis a little I know him to be scum.
How do you know him to be scum?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 05:50:50 am
Nevermind ;)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 05:51:49 am
The fact that Robz plays this like a town game does not mean in any way that he's not the SK by the way. Comparing to regular scum games just doesn't work.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 05:52:08 am
I'll try to get a schadd reread in today.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 09, 2017, 06:06:43 am
Vote count 3.HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KKRIEG!

Eevee (2): 2,71828....., Robz888
Robz888 (1): Eevee

Not voting (4): schadd, gkrieg13, kkrieg, faust

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday, 12th of May at 1 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 06:53:20 am
Zombies ate my reread.

Main things about schadd are:
- he specifically claimed not-SK D1
- he was strongly focused on mcmc during D1
- he was very hesitant about hammering (i.e. worried to become a focus of attention)
- he thought TWM would be mafia rather than the SK during D2, but after the hammer, only questions him on if he was SK. It's like he abandoned the former narrative because he was worried it'd make him look SK-y (which it does)

On N1, an SK would know the following about the setup:

- 100 % chance of Detective
- 67 % chance of 1-shot Commuter
- 67 % chance of JK
- 33 % chance of Psychologist
- 33 % chance of Goon Cop

Okay, so every SK-setup includes a Detective. Shouldn't this make you less inclined to shoot N1? Well, we had a shot, and the SK knows that there is a PR out there that can definitely catch him, so it makes sense to use investigation immunity.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 09, 2017, 08:22:54 am
So if I played like town, I'm the Serial Killer. If I played like scum, I'm mafia. It would be nice to see the ICs even consider other explanations.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 09, 2017, 08:23:12 am
Now you're buddying an IC. Gkrieg is a great player but he gets things wrong, too. In Mafia 97, he was no more right about anything than I was, and I was wrong about most things.
he was right about andrew for a longer time


- he was very hesitant about hammering (i.e. worried to become a focus of attention)
i mean i hammered though. and hammering quickly has never reaped benefits in my experience, i figured we could at least give people stuff to not talk about


- he thought TWM would be mafia rather than the SK during D2, but after the hammer, only questions him on if he was SK. It's like he abandoned the former narrative because he was worried it'd make him look SK-y (which it does)
i thought he was sk because he seemed confident i was town for a while but then pivoted back on it for a reason that i thought was silly, in context at least. maf/traitor doesn't do that, i don't think twm is a wifom guy.


you think i wouldn't remember the "talking about the thing makes people think you are the thing" credo of m92?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 08:27:05 am
you think i wouldn't remember the "talking about the thing makes people think you are the thing" credo of m92?

Maybe. You're a WIFOM guy after all.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 09, 2017, 08:38:15 am
So if I played like town, I'm the Serial Killer. If I played like scum, I'm mafia. It would be nice to see the ICs even consider other explanations.
that has been my heuristic, yes
you think i wouldn't remember the "talking about the thing makes people think you are the thing" credo of m92?

Maybe. You're a WIFOM guy after all.
i'm pretty sure that i'm super not actually. i mean i think my rock paper scissors winrate is like 55%
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 09:47:29 am
So if I played like town, I'm the Serial Killer. If I played like scum, I'm mafia. It would be nice to see the ICs even consider other explanations.
that has been my heuristic, yes
you think i wouldn't remember the "talking about the thing makes people think you are the thing" credo of m92?

Maybe. You're a WIFOM guy after all.
i'm pretty sure that i'm super not actually. i mean i think my rock paper scissors winrate is like 55%
I'm not completely sure what this fact means. I would think an above 50 % winrate would indeed indicate that you're a WIFOM guy? Or not? I RPS a game where bad WIFOMers are good for some reason? So many questions that are not really related to this game...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 09, 2017, 09:48:55 am
i.e. not larger than 55%
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 10:36:35 am
E and Faust please rank the three and make cases on who is scummiest to towniest. The three, please do so for Faust and e.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 10:42:14 am
SK î
     |
     |  schadd
     |          Robz
     |
     |
     |
     |
     |                                    Eevee
      --------------------------------> mafia

Case to follow. Tomorrow probably...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 11:06:41 am
Explanations on Eevee:

Eevee is not the SK because I blocked him N1. He could be SK if he used Strongman N1 (which I view as unlikely), or if I have been blocked N1 (slightly more likely). He's also unlikely to be SK because he's likely to be mafia.

Eevee is likely mafia because I blocked him twice and we have seen only a single nightkill each time. PLus a scum has fakeclaimed in order to defned him, which does not make that much sense unless they are partners. Additionally, Eevee was super hedgy on mcmc D1, claiming he was his only scumread but never voting, and disappearing before the deadline without announcement in order not to have to decide between mcmc/Awaclus. On D2, he suggested looking at mcmc interactions, but immediately dropped and never picked up the idea again when TWM started catching heat.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 09, 2017, 11:23:33 am
I liked faust's chart so I copied it

                î
 Traitor   |
      Robz |     
                |
                |
                |            schadd     
                |                           
                |                 eevee
              S|K                                 
Town  ------------------------ Scum

Eevee- I think most likely to be scum, and the SK
schadd- I think schadd is the other scum, but not as confident as eevee. Traitor more likely than SK I think.
Robz- I think he is the town, but if he is scum I totally believe him to be the traitor.

More in depth cases later.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 09, 2017, 11:35:44 am
So if I played like town, I'm the Serial Killer. If I played like scum, I'm mafia. It would be nice to see the ICs even consider other explanations.

Oh, I am definitely considering that you might be town. Although you will always have that feeling in the back of my mind. I have read you as town in several games (going back to Toy Story Mafia) where you turned out to be scum.

That being said, I don't think this is a game where I get burned for town reading you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 09, 2017, 12:31:39 pm
e, I don't think your diagram really works in a 2-dimensional plane.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 09, 2017, 01:01:26 pm
I was already sleeping when the mcmc wagon appeared, it was pretty late here already.

Bad on me for not being more clear about my availability on the deadline. Not really proud of my level of engagement in this game, I don't even know why. Haven't really made any good reads or had particularly good insight either, I think I got to take a small break from this after Robz's big game. It's always a bit of a drop in intensity for me drawing a more boring role after being scum so much lately.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 01:48:09 pm
if she didn't the setup is confirmed. but we ought to wait for our fausts and our gkriegs to have a go

This is probably the most scummy post from VT!schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 01:49:23 pm
i uh don't plan to play a game with a serial killer in the near future

This is one of the main reasons I think schadd is town. This is my thought exactly right here, that we can kind of know who is scum here, but we have to lynch the SK to not have a kingmaker situation seems crazy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 01:51:37 pm

hi friends.

HI. Why are Robz and eevee scum, with you actually being the vt

-i'm the only one of us that concretely pushed mcmc and defended awaclus
-robz was on kkrieg. i didn't defend her really but i told her she didn't have to claim
-the two of them teamed up on me toward eod2 and sort of coerced me into the twm lynch (though i did want to lynch him either way).


uh


eevee makes more sense to me as sk by day stuff. last game eevee was town, i was null on him and a bunch of other people scumread him; last time he was scum, i scumread him and the majority townread him. this game he seemed super town to me by tone and had no defenders. i would think his sk game looks more like his town game in that sense, but that's not a given, and the fact that sk & traitor exist could have changed the way he thought of the game if scum (hence why i don't like sk stuff)


robz was an intuitive mcmc partner to me at the start of d2.


that eevee claimed vt rather than ccing gkrieg is worth noting.

I think I have a perfect counter claiming not being lynched record, so I'm not that surprised that scum!Eevee didn't counterclaim me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 01:53:11 pm
everybody make sure not to say anything about an n3 kill target

This too is just townie, and also what I was thinking/looking for.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 02:03:18 pm
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

I was just thinking about this. 

So traitor knows mafia, so they aren't going to block their scum buddies.  But that means that the JK most likely blocked the kill.  But if faust is town, and I wasn't roleblocked, and the roleblocker is one of {schadd, Eevee, Robz, faust, e}, who do they choose to block?

Also, I was going for mcmcsalot pretty hard D1, so I would be surprised if I weren't the planned NK, unless they thought I was the traitor, so they wanted to make sure they gave up their kill. So either, mafia shot traitor N1, or they were blocked and tried to shoot a townie.

But if the roleblocker blocked town!faust, then they must've shot the traitor N1.  Otherwise they blocked someone who wasn't me, and wasn't town!faust, and wasn't town!e.  So like I really don't know who they blocked...

I mean I'm pretty sure the SK didn't use their strongman N1.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 02:05:22 pm
Also possible/kinda probable that at least one mafia knows for sure who the SK is, which means that they know who the VT is in the three.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 02:16:38 pm
Scummy posts from Eevee.

weird is towny.

robz is towny

mcmc scummy

got to give town points for faust for leading

why is andrew brought up so often as a viable lynch without accompanying vote movement?

Oh, we are back on!

Only three more for the mcmcsalot wagon to go!  Any takers?  Kkrieg, why do you think Awaclus is a better lynch than mcmcsalot?
babe you know it's past my bedtime don't ask hard questions

he reacted pretty quickly to my initial kinda random vote at him
he hasn't been particularly helpful
he jumped on the mcmc train

honestly my reasons are weak but heyy it is day 1
I remember being surprised kkrieg could come up with that many that good reasons for the switch (and wondering why hadn't she said those things before being asked - kind of felt like she made the vote, and then only thought of the reasons after being pressed for it).

Just phone access now, but mcmc being the almost-lynch of yesterday should be helpful in determining the second mafia at least. Like, probably not e based on his voting, so my suspicion on yesterday was wrong on that at least (again, probably).

I think someone who was suspected by mcmc is far far more likely to shoot him.

I don't feel great about lynching Robz (eh, same read than mcmc last night, I don't have a reason to be against this lynch but I've seen no reason to suspect him other than "He is Robz and he is still alive") or faust (although he has been more and more aggressive as the leader (and main scumhunter!), which I guess is reading scummier to me because it could be a disguise for pushing towny lynches). Still would like TWM, but I don't know if that's happening anymore.

What about schadd? The post e quoted made me realize my earlier exchanges with him. I could vote for schadd.

That's a decent night for us.. I guess. Sooooo much variance in the game right now.

Wasn't Andrew pushing for faust really hard yesterday?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 09, 2017, 03:35:07 pm
I think E is more likely town than faust, but I'd have to go back to provide a reason. I admit to being a little ambivalent about this, since we should lynch either schadd or Eevee with 100% guarantee to hit scum, and then it might actually become obvious who is scum between E and faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 09, 2017, 03:50:58 pm
I think E is more likely town than faust, but I'd have to go back to provide a reason. I admit to being a little ambivalent about this, since we should lynch either schadd or Eevee with 100% guarantee to hit scum, and then it might actually become obvious who is scum between E and faust.

Especially if we lynch eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 09, 2017, 03:53:10 pm
For being obvious between myself and faust who is scum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 07:36:15 pm
Vote count 1.1

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
Not voting (5): Robz888, Eevee, 2,71828....., mcmcsalot, kkrieg

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.

Vote Count 1.2

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): faust, The_Wine_Merchant
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (4): Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot, kkrieg

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.

Vote Count 1.3

Robz888 (1): schadd
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): The_Wine_Merchant, kkrieg
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (3): faust, Eevee, Robz888
Not voting (1): gkrieg13

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.

Vote Count 1.4

Robz888 (2): schadd, faust
AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Awaclus (2): The_Wine_Merchant, kkrieg
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, gkrieg13
kkrieg (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (1): AndrewisFTTW

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT.

Vote Count 1.HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MCMCSALOT!

Robz888 (3): schadd, faust, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Awaclus (1): kkrieg
The_Wine_Merchant (1): mcmcsalot
2,71828..... (1): Eevee
kkrieg (1): 2,71828.....
mcmcsalot (2): gkrieg13, The_Wine_Merchant
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT. This is in 24 hours.

Vote Count 1.6
 
Awaclus (5): kkrieg, AndrewisFTTW, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, faust
mcmcsalot (3): schadd, gkrieg13, Awaclus
faust (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, 24th of April at 5 am FT. This is in 4 hours.

Vote Count 1.final
 
Awaclus (6): kkrieg, AndrewisFTTW, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888, 2,71828.....
2,71828..... (2): Eevee, faust
mcmcsalot (3): schadd, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Not voting (0):

With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch. Thread Locked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 07:37:52 pm
Vote count 2.1
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (1): The_Wine_Merchant
kkrieg (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (4): Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, 2,71828....., kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Vote count 2.2
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (2): The_Wine_Merchant, 2,71828.....
kkrieg (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (3): Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Vote count 2.3
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, schadd, Robz888
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (3): gkrieg13, The_Wine_Merchant, 2,71828.....
Not voting (2): Eevee, kkrieg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Vote count 2.4
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Robz888, Eevee
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (3): gkrieg13, 2,71828....., The_Wine_Merchant
Not voting (2): kkrieg, schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. If the forum continues to be so slow, i will prolong the deadline.

Vote count 2.5
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
kkrieg (2): gkrieg13, 2,71828.....
schadd (1): Robz888
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT.

Vote count 2.6
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (1): AndrewisFTTW
kkrieg (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (3): schadd, 2,71828....., Robz888

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 24ish hours

Vote count 2.7
The_Wine_Merchant (3): faust, Eevee, kkrieg
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (2): 2,71828....., Robz888
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 15 hours

Vote count 2.8
The_Wine_Merchant (4): faust, Eevee, kkrieg, Robz888
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (1): schadd

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, 3rd of May at 4 am FT. This is in 13 hours

Vote count 2.final
The_Wine_Merchant (5): faust, Eevee, kkrieg, Robz888, schadd
faust (2): AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant
Robz888 (1): gkrieg13
Eevee (1): 2,71828.....
Not voting (0):

With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch. Thread Locked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 07:44:19 pm
I'll reread faust and e tomorrow for completeness.  Interesting that faust, Robz, Eevee, and schadd were all on the TWM wagon together.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 07:45:01 pm
I'll reread faust and e tomorrow for completeness.  Interesting that faust, Robz, Eevee, and schadd were all on the TWM wagon together.

I think this is scummy for e.  Except it is possible that the goon didn't know the traitor or the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 09, 2017, 08:01:33 pm
I'll reread faust and e tomorrow for completeness.  Interesting that faust, Robz, Eevee, and schadd were all on the TWM wagon together.

I think this is scummy for e.  Except it is possible that the goon didn't know the traitor or the SK.

How?  Because I staunchly defended town!TWM the entirety of D2?  Because I was trying to build an alternative wagon on Eevee, my alleged partner?

Anyway thanks for posting those.  I find the TWM wagon very revealing, especially on Eevee.  Robz and schadd jumping in at the end of the day is also interesting, because really it is between the two of them in my mind as to who I think the final scum is.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2017, 08:02:45 pm
I'll reread faust and e tomorrow for completeness.  Interesting that faust, Robz, Eevee, and schadd were all on the TWM wagon together.

I think this is scummy for e.  Except it is possible that the goon didn't know the traitor or the SK.

How?  Because I staunchly defended town!TWM the entirety of D2?  Because I was trying to build an alternative wagon on Eevee, my alleged partner?

Anyway thanks for posting those.  I find the TWM wagon very revealing, especially on Eevee.  Robz and schadd jumping in at the end of the day is also interesting, because really it is between the two of them in my mind as to who I think the final scum is.

Why are you so sure about Eevee again?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 10, 2017, 12:30:16 am
This setup is super confusing to me
Vote: Faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 12:33:33 am
We really want to lynch one of {Robz, schadd, Eevee} first
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 10, 2017, 12:42:31 am
awkward. didn't get that from rereading.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 08:40:48 am
e and faust both say I'm scum, but e does it with wayy more certainty, which strikes to me more as a scum position. Like, I find it hard to believe town could be so sure as he is projecting to be - especially because looking at Robz and schadd, I don't think their optics are that much townier than mine.

So I would guess that e and schadd are mafia, Robz the SK, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had Robz and schadd inverted, or if faust was scum, not e. I was actually suspecting faust earlier for similar reasons - pushing for his cases so hard it seemed inconceivable he could be that sure of his reads as town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 10:37:49 am
e and faust both say I'm scum, but e does it with wayy more certainty, which strikes to me more as a scum position. Like, I find it hard to believe town could be so sure as he is projecting to be - especially because looking at Robz and schadd, I don't think their optics are that much townier than mine.

So I would guess that e and schadd are mafia, Robz the SK, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had Robz and schadd inverted, or if faust was scum, not e. I was actually suspecting faust earlier for similar reasons - pushing for his cases so hard it seemed inconceivable he could be that sure of his reads as town.

Uh Faust is pretty certain with his result on you...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 10, 2017, 10:47:20 am
e and faust both say I'm scum, but e does it with wayy more certainty, which strikes to me more as a scum position. Like, I find it hard to believe town could be so sure as he is projecting to be - especially because looking at Robz and schadd, I don't think their optics are that much townier than mine.

So I would guess that e and schadd are mafia, Robz the SK, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had Robz and schadd inverted, or if faust was scum, not e. I was actually suspecting faust earlier for similar reasons - pushing for his cases so hard it seemed inconceivable he could be that sure of his reads as town.

Uh Faust is pretty certain with his result on you...
At least any other explanation is highly unlikely.

e's suspicion is a lot less warranted however.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 10, 2017, 10:54:02 am
I want to reread Robz, but it's hard to find the time to do so.

I'm also worried about tomorrow. It seems like a number of people are inclined to trust e over me. Addressing this now is likely distracting us from what we really need to do, but you know - just don't let this feeling sink in. I'm confident that I can show e to be scum once I devote the appropriate amount of time, but I need you guys to not be biased.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 11:05:48 am
I want to reread Robz, but it's hard to find the time to do so.

I'm also worried about tomorrow. It seems like a number of people are inclined to trust e over me. Addressing this now is likely distracting us from what we really need to do, but you know - just don't let this feeling sink in. I'm confident that I can show e to be scum once I devote the appropriate amount of time, but I need you guys to not be biased.

I would love to see this case.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 11:12:45 am
e and faust both say I'm scum, but e does it with wayy more certainty, which strikes to me more as a scum position. Like, I find it hard to believe town could be so sure as he is projecting to be - especially because looking at Robz and schadd, I don't think their optics are that much townier than mine.

So I would guess that e and schadd are mafia, Robz the SK, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had Robz and schadd inverted, or if faust was scum, not e. I was actually suspecting faust earlier for similar reasons - pushing for his cases so hard it seemed inconceivable he could be that sure of his reads as town.

Uh Faust is pretty certain with his result on you...
But if he is scum, the results are fake as well. It's not much of an argument if it requires believing him to be town. It wouldn't be hard for scum to fake results that fit my actual night actions, there hasn't been any.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 01:18:20 pm
I think E is more likely town than faust, but I'd have to go back to provide a reason. I admit to being a little ambivalent about this, since we should lynch either schadd or Eevee with 100% guarantee to hit scum, and then it might actually become obvious who is scum between E and faust.

Especially if we lynch eevee.

I'm slightly confused why you are so certain that Eevee is the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 01:19:50 pm
Also, does Robz usually bus or not bus?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 01:27:30 pm
schadd, who are you planning on voting for?  Robz or Eevee?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
Also, does Robz usually bus or not bus?

Robz HATES bussing, and avoids doing it generally. He has bussed, but is less inclined to do so than other top scum players.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 01:29:00 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 01:52:08 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)

That is what I remember from you, and I highly doubt faust would let you bus him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 01:59:40 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)

That is what I remember from you, and I highly doubt faust would let you bus him.

Well okay, but I am town, and I have zero reason to vote for faust, since there's a 100% chance we lynch scum if I vote for Eevee or schadd.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 02:04:15 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)

That is what I remember from you, and I highly doubt faust would let you bus him.

Well okay, but I am town, and I have zero reason to vote for faust, since there's a 100% chance we lynch scum if I vote for Eevee or schadd.

I mean earlier in the game.  You defend faust a lot in the early game.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 02:09:15 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)

That is what I remember from you, and I highly doubt faust would let you bus him.

Well okay, but I am town, and I have zero reason to vote for faust, since there's a 100% chance we lynch scum if I vote for Eevee or schadd.

I mean earlier in the game.  You defend faust a lot in the early game.

Oh. Well that's true. I would like to think I would have put more energy into it as scum. But sure.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 02:26:52 pm
And also, there are different kinds of bussing Late-game bussing in order to get semi-IC status on the ultimate day? Sure. Early bussing? No, early bussers lose.

(I realize this does not help my case that I am not mcmc's partner, but it's the truth.)

That is what I remember from you, and I highly doubt faust would let you bus him.

Well okay, but I am town, and I have zero reason to vote for faust, since there's a 100% chance we lynch scum if I vote for Eevee or schadd.

I mean earlier in the game.  You defend faust a lot in the early game.

Oh. Well that's true. I would like to think I would have put more energy into it as scum. But sure.

He wasn't really under that much heat. 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 02:36:19 pm
I think E is more likely town than faust, but I'd have to go back to provide a reason. I admit to being a little ambivalent about this, since we should lynch either schadd or Eevee with 100% guarantee to hit scum, and then it might actually become obvious who is scum between E and faust.

Especially if we lynch eevee.

I'm slightly confused why you are so certain that Eevee is the SK.

1) your result on schadd
2) the kills of mcmc and Andrew just don't fit a SK!robz narrative in my opinion

Sure, investigative immunity. Sure, wifom. But I think the simplest explanation is the right one here
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 10, 2017, 02:55:17 pm
Vote count 3.5!

Eevee (2): 2,71828....., Robz888
Robz888 (1): Eevee
faust (1): kkrieg

Not voting (3): schadd, gkrieg13, faust

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday, 12th of May at 1 am FT. This is in 34 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 02:57:47 pm
Keep in mind deadline is really tomorrow night.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 03:15:06 pm
I had another thought, might as well put it down here:

If we lynch our VT, the game is not over for town.

We go into the night at 2 mafia, 1 SK, 3 town. 
1) In order to have any chance at winning, the SK must shoot a member of the mafia. 
2) Mafia's biggest threat at this point (after SK has shot a goon/traitor) is a kingmaking situation.  If they shoot a townie, we will be at 1 SK, 1 mafia, 2 town at the start of D4.  Which no one wants.  Rather, mafia will want to shoot the SK.
     a) If that kill is successful, we are at 3 town, 1 mafia; mylo situation.
     b) If that kill is unsuccessful (maybe SK is still BP or whatever reason), we are at 3 town, 1 SK, 1 mafia.

The key to town's success (in my opinion) is that the SK fully knows the setup.  Right now, the SK {Robz, eevee, schadd} does not know with absolute certainty which of the remaining two players in that pool is the traitor or is town.  Now, if we lynch from the pool the SK knows everything.  Which will allow them to shoot mafia tonight.

At this point in the game, any faction could win.  Town's only way to win is at mylo/lylo, which in order for that to happen we need a minimum of 1 scum death today/tonight with at least 3 townies remaining alive going into D4.  The SK's only way to win is to win at lylo, which will not happen if two mafia are still alive at the start of D4.  Mafia can win if they lynch the SK today and survive then get one mislynch in the last two days of lylo.

The point of all this is to say that if we lynch eevee, it will be blatantly obvious who is scum between myself and faust.  If eevee is the SK, faust is scum.  If eevee is the traitor, faust is scum.  If eevee is town, faust is scum.  If eevee is the goon....well, I know faust is scum, but all the evidence would point to my being scum, so I would just have to say hats off to a job well done by faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 03:18:31 pm
Basically, if faust is town, he would see the reasoning behind lynching eevee.  He is not, therefore he does not want to lynch eevee.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 03:19:27 pm
I'm not sure spelling all that out was the best idea, there's a risk of coaching SK and mafia on how they should navigate a night where both factions are still alive.

This actually makes me feel a lot worse about E! Because it's exactly the kind of thing scum wants to put out there.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 03:20:40 pm
I'm not sure spelling all that out was the best idea, there's a risk of coaching SK and mafia on how they should navigate a night where both factions are still alive.

This actually makes me feel a lot worse about E! Because it's exactly the kind of thing scum wants to put out there.

I am definitely coaching the SK in how he should act tonight.  That was the clear intent of my post. 
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 03:21:54 pm
That said, the analysis is correct. We should lynch Eevee in all conceivable scenarios. Eevee is not the VT, because I am the VT, and Eevee is more likely SK than schadd.

Kkrieg, I really think you should be voting for Eevee and not faust, even if you think faust is more likely scum than E.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 03:23:51 pm
Unless the SK wants to just sit back and watch the world burn, the only logical move for him is to kill mafia tonight.  If he doesn't, he will be giving the game away to the mafia (which is totally within his power).  But I play under the assumption that everyone wants to win.  I do.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 03:24:34 pm
I think E is more likely town than faust, but I'd have to go back to provide a reason. I admit to being a little ambivalent about this, since we should lynch either schadd or Eevee with 100% guarantee to hit scum, and then it might actually become obvious who is scum between E and faust.

Especially if we lynch eevee.

I'm slightly confused why you are so certain that Eevee is the SK.
Me too!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 03:26:30 pm
Also, does Robz usually bus or not bus?
Robz is perfectly capable of bussing, but that doesn't mean he busses always, naturally. I think you could find examples of both epic busses from him, and going down defending the partner from him.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 03:30:25 pm
I would never shoot a claimed VT if I was the SK.

Actually, I don't see Robz doing it either tbh.. maybe the SK is schadd after all?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 03:37:20 pm
I would never shoot a claimed VT if I was the SK.

Actually, I don't see Robz doing it either tbh.. maybe the SK is schadd after all?

Me neither. Especially VT mcmcsalot.

Is does seem more plausible that schadd would do this than Eevee, for what it's worth. I know I've said this before, but I'm having mega flashbacks to SK!Axxle. But anyway, the downside here isn't the hugest because Eevee is scum either way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 03:43:27 pm
I could convince myself to vote for schadd or Robz based on my analysis above. 

In different formatting, these are the situations that I see:

Lynch the SK:
       1) Town controls their own destiny.  We are at lylo at that point, mafia will shoot one of the ICs, and we just need two good lynches.
Lynch mafia (traitor or goon):
       1) There is a potential kingmaking situation that could occur between mafia/SK.  I know which faction I would support, but I will not state that unless I am put in that situation tomorrow.
       2) All other situations result in some sort of mylo/lylo where town controls their own destiny.
Lynch town
       1) See option (1) under lynch mafia
       2) 2 mafia survive the night and mafia win
       3) Some sort of mylo/lylo situation where town controls their own destiny.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 03:45:11 pm
Maybe we just lynch schadd?

That is actually a pretty convincing argument to me, now that I mirror it to my own thinking. Only reason I could think you'd kill a claimed VT mcmc would be to confuse town in a situation like this, and that's pretty far-fetched even for you.

I think you are confident in your abilities outsmarting him, being the older brother and all. And there is more of a precedent of him townreading you too much than anything else too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 03:45:27 pm
Okay. Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 03:47:12 pm
Maybe we just lynch schadd?

That is actually a pretty convincing argument to me, now that I mirror it to my own thinking. Only reason I could think you'd kill a claimed VT mcmc would be to confuse town in a situation like this, and that's pretty far-fetched even for you.

I think you are confident in your abilities outsmarting him, being the older brother and all. And there is more of a precedent of him townreading you too much than anything else too.

Right, it's certainly not a thing I would do on Night 1... I can generally always count on convincing mcmc I'm town for the duration of Day 2 at least. And he was a claimed VT.

What holds me back from voting schadd over you is gkrieg's result.

And you're scum anyway!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 10, 2017, 04:14:36 pm
In no way would we want to risk a kingmaking situation, which happens 99% of the time if we lynch the VT. Proposing that is just batshit crazy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 10, 2017, 04:19:59 pm
I could convince myself to vote for schadd or Robz based on my analysis above. 

In different formatting, these are the situations that I see:

Lynch the SK:
       1) Town controls their own destiny.  We are at lylo at that point, mafia will shoot one of the ICs, and we just need two good lynches.
Obivously what we need to happen.

Lynch mafia (traitor or goon):
       1) There is a potential kingmaking situation that could occur between mafia/SK.  I know which faction I would support, but I will not state that unless I am put in that situation tomorrow.
The "potential" situation is the most likely outcome. Of course we should not make either king, instead no lynch and hope we can scae one scum into shooting the other.

Lynch town
       1) See option (1) under lynch mafia
       2) 2 mafia survive the night and mafia win
       3) Some sort of mylo/lylo situation where town controls their own destiny.
2 and 3 are hypothetical scenarios that will never happen unless a scum fucks up big time.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 08:33:20 pm
Maybe we just lynch schadd?

That is actually a pretty convincing argument to me, now that I mirror it to my own thinking. Only reason I could think you'd kill a claimed VT mcmc would be to confuse town in a situation like this, and that's pretty far-fetched even for you.

I think you are confident in your abilities outsmarting him, being the older brother and all. And there is more of a precedent of him townreading you too much than anything else too.

Right, it's certainly not a thing I would do on Night 1... I can generally always count on convincing mcmc I'm town for the duration of Day 2 at least. And he was a claimed VT.

What holds me back from voting schadd over you is gkrieg's result.

And you're scum anyway!
I know I'm negotiating with scum, but oddly we can still find ourselves on the same side.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 10, 2017, 09:00:48 pm
Schadd, if you had investigation immunity one night this game, and were trying to be the last person standing, which night would you have used it on?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 10, 2017, 09:40:44 pm

schadd, who are you planning on voting for?  Robz or Eevee?
eevee


Eevee is more likely SK than schadd.
i eegree

I would never shoot a claimed VT if I was the SK.

Actually, I don't see Robz doing it either tbh.. maybe the SK is schadd after all?
mcmc kind of scumclaimed, i wouldn't shoot claimed scum.


i mean there isn't really a way to indicate i would know i shouldn't shoot vts but i am pretty sure i would have. i definitely knew groupscum should avoid it - i picked off PRs a lot in M87, there's also this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg682619#msg682619) from M96. it follows pretty close logically that sk should, since PRs are probably the most dangerous thing to sk (bulletproof defends from nightkill better than investigimmune defends from cops).


Schadd, if you had investigation immunity one night this game, and were trying to be the last person standing, which night would you have used it on?
again, no way to know, really. in a game with you, robz and faust, and where i had pushed against the d1 mislynch i don't think i would have reason to expect to be copped. i was a bit surprised you investigated me, sorta shows in that i asked you why.


i also thought commuting would be a good idea when i saw sk could use the town prs (that seemed to me like the only one sk would bother with, unless you really wanted to try to cop someone and look non-scum by pushing a scum lynch) to get out of everything and hide that an sk exists for a while (if knowing that an sk exists is annoying, not knowing that is probably worse)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 09:45:17 pm
I think we should get the lynch done today (as in, in the next 6 hours rather than the next 30 hours)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 10:38:06 pm
I'm semi-around.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on May 10, 2017, 10:42:47 pm
not if i have anything to do about it! he said while continuing to not vote
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on May 10, 2017, 10:57:51 pm
and my axe!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 10, 2017, 11:05:47 pm
and my axe!

Shouldn't that have been "you have my bow"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on May 10, 2017, 11:58:14 pm
Okay, I'm here, briefly. Not sure what else I can say.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 11, 2017, 12:00:37 am
vote: Eevee

I think he is the best lynch, and don't think schadd is scum.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 11, 2017, 12:08:47 am
Kkrieg you should just sheep me if you don't have strong opinions
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 11, 2017, 12:09:17 am
Sheep = just follow my vote.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 11, 2017, 12:45:57 am
vote: eevee
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 11, 2017, 12:46:32 am
Blitzkrieg!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: kkrieg on May 11, 2017, 12:46:46 am
Someone didn't say L 1
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 11, 2017, 12:51:59 am
Someone didn't say L 1

[yawning cat emoji]
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on May 11, 2017, 01:02:20 am
Thread locked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 11, 2017, 01:03:37 am
Vote count 3.final

Eevee (4): 2,71828....., Robz888, gkrieg13, kkrieg
schadd (1): Eevee

Not voting (2): schadd, faust

With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on May 11, 2017, 01:09:25 am
Люди начали забывать, что такое быть людьми. Люди начали забывать себя ради золота. Каждый был одержим манией убийства. Каждый боялся того, что их золото отнимут. И да, в этот раз деревня нашла предателя, но стоило ли золото всех этих загубленных жизней?

People have started forgetting what it is to be humans. People have started forgetting themselves for gold. Everyone had this bloodlust. Everyone was afraid their gold will be taken away. Yes, this time the Traitor was found, but was it worth it?

Eevee was lynched! He was Иви, the Roleblocking Traitor!

Night 3 starts now and ends Saturday, May 13th at 12 am FT. Deadline for night actions is in 46 hours.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 13, 2017, 12:02:36 am
Один из жителей деревни проснулся посреди ночи с потрясающей мыслью: "Но ведь у нас в городе есть тюрьма! И детектив! Что они вообще делают, чтобы поймать плохих парней? Пойду их навещу". Да. Отличная была идея. Поздно.

One of the villagers woke up in the middle of the night with an astounding thought: "But wait! We havr a jail in our village and a detective! What are they even doing?! I will go visit them." Yeah, great thought. Too late though.

2,71828..... was killed! He was два, семь один восемь два восемь....., the Town Jailkeeper.
gkrieg13 was killed! He was джикриг13, the Town Detective.

День 4 начался!

Vote count 4.0

Not voting (4):
Robz888, schadd, faust, kkrieg

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 4 ends Saturday, 20th of May at 1 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:09:56 am
well i was leaning faust anyway so that's good
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:11:06 am
i think no lynch is town's only thing?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:12:16 am
wait faust just wins in that
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:12:45 am
faust probably deserves to win? make your cases guys
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:13:53 am
Umm.... so, if we lynch faust, SK!schadd shoots me or kkrieg and just wins.

If we lynch SK!schadd, faust shoots me or kkrieg and just wins.

If we No Lynch... I don't know. Maybe schadd and faust shoot each other?

We can't lynch here, lynching is losing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:14:04 am
so like he probably already knows i'm the town, by some means or another
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:15:13 am
he's a roleblocker. he will probably want to block you and kill kkrieg. did you use strongman?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:15:48 am
he's a roleblocker. he will probably want to block you and kill kkrieg. did you use strongman?

I am a VT, I didn't use anything. Did YOU use strongman?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:17:30 am
Actually the Roleblocker was Eevee, so I don't actually understand how faust managed to kill anyone, unless 2.7 was really stupid with his Jailkeeping. Right? All faust could do was a normal kill.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:18:44 am
like, you're fucked and there's no reason not to at least try something. you can strongman kill faust tonight if you can to give a non-faust faction a chance of winning. i mean we can just lynch him but town doesn't want that
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:19:04 am
Vote: No Lynch since any other move loses for us as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:19:15 am
faust inherits rb when eevee dies.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:20:08 am
like, you're fucked and there's no reason not to at least try something. you can strongman kill faust tonight if you can to give a non-faust faction a chance of winning. i mean we can just lynch him but town doesn't want that

The only thing that fucks me over is actually lynching faust here, which you surely know, which is why you are trying to goad me into doing it!! You are such obv!SK right now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:20:28 am
there's a plan i want to flesh out more. don't hammer no lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:22:02 am
i think what ends up happening is both of us have to claim whether we used strongman so you have incentive to tell me without losing in the me-you-kkrieg lylo (if faust decides to no-kill
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:22:11 am
Anything other than No Lynch is town suicide. It takes us to night with three people, including one scum. We lose! We beng me and kkrieg, since you are the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:22:41 am
yeah, no, no lynch is the plan
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:23:07 am
i think what ends up happening is both of us have to claim whether we used strongman so you have incentive to tell me without losing in the me-you-kkrieg lylo (if faust decides to no-kill

I can claim that right now. I did not use strongman, I don't have strongman I am VT. You are trying to find a win for the SK here. Did YOU use strongman?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:24:23 am
you didn't, then. no, i "didn't" either
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:25:15 am
I don't know why "quotes" are called for.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:25:20 am
like you get what i'm saying, i'm just going to assume.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:27:16 am
I get that you are confessing to being the SK, yes.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:30:37 am
Kkrieg!! You have to listen to me. We know faust is mafia and schadd is SK for sure! Faust is mafia because he counterclaimed 2.7, and we know 2.7 was telling the truth. Schadd is SK because there's no one else left.

The problem is that if we lynch either faust or schadd, the other will shoot one of us and town loses. So we have to Vote: No Lynch and hope they somehow kill each other.

We are in this terrible situation because somehow, 2.7 did not stop faust's kill, even though he was a JK. I'm really confused as to how this happened, it must mean 2.7 tried to get fancy and assume faust wasn't even going to do anything with his shot (because he expected to be blocked) and tried to prevent the SK's kill. Although even then, 2.7 screwed up, because he apparently didn't guard gkrieg.

So I'm pretty confused how we ended up here, but here is bad, and the only thing that could possibly make it less bad is No Lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:31:09 am
no lynch just forces faust to kingmake. you are kind of forced into shooting him, assuming you're not preferring the charade to actually telling me whether it's going to work. you shoot faust because any other target loses you the game. faust chooses between sk win, town win, or proper lylo where i trounce you. kapeesh?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:33:24 am
dude i told you already. faust inherited the roleblock
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:34:07 am
no lynch just forces faust to kingmake. you are kind of forced into shooting him, assuming you're not preferring the charade to actually telling me whether it's going to work. you shoot faust because any other target loses you the game. faust chooses between sk win, town win, or proper lylo where i trounce you. kapeesh?

Kkrieg, schadd wants us to lynch faust because it's an auto win for SK!schadd.

If we No Lynch, it's possible faust and schadd shoot each other and town wins. It's not the greatest odds ever because the SK might still be 1-shot bulletproof, in which case you, me, and schadd at least get a LYLO tomorrow. But hey, we have a chance there too (we actually have a guaranteed win there, if you trust me). All of this is better than listening to schadd now and killing faust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:34:49 am
dude i told you already. faust inherited the roleblock

What on earth are you talking about. Where does it say that happens.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:37:58 am
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
you were like literally scum last game in this setup and we lynched traitor d1 like holy shit
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:40:13 am
if i felt like it i would pull up one of the many times you complained about people not reading setups
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:40:37 am
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
you were like literally scum last game in this setup and we lynched traitor d1 like holy shit

What? Use words. What game? They all run together.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:41:58 am
m92
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:42:26 am
Fine, make me look it up instead of providing like a nice link or quote or something
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:43:46 am
i'm on my phone. you were scum, iirc you were the one that inherited rb. that's all there is to the story
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:45:27 am
Yes yes I looked it up. Did not remember inheriting the RB. Blanked that game from memory because it was one of my biggest losses ever, in 63 games of mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:45:43 am
But okay, fine. I see it now. Doesb't change matters now.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:47:36 am
it means you can't win unless you strong kill faust because he can block you
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:52:12 am
incidentally, counter-argument to the argument that none of you would pose: in theory i should be pretending to be sk so faust doesn't know who to block, but see again: m92, faust is good at reading robz (and moderately good at reading me but m94 is a bit counter to that)


so i preferred making sure robz has clear instruction as to what he has to do because apparently reading setups is out of vogue again
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:53:13 am
okay that is the last time i say something mean to robz until mylo. it's kind of pointless and uh mean
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 12:55:32 am
incidentally, counter-argument to the argument that none of you would pose: in theory i should be pretending to be sk so faust doesn't know who to block, but see again: m92, faust is good at reading robz (and moderately good at reading me but m94 is a bit counter to that)


so i preferred making sure robz has clear instruction as to what he has to do because apparently reading setups is out of vogue again

Let's be clear on what you are trying to do: you are trying to give faust reason to shoot me, a VT, instead of you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:55:58 am
i would like faust to tell us whomst he plans to lynch. how about we wait until he is proddable?


ll, do you have some sort of anti-prodging policy/ can you implement one so faust has to say what he's gonna do tonight?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:57:20 am
robz shooting you would be fine but i expect him to no kill
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 12:57:47 am
*faust shooting you
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 01:49:54 am
oh also, reminder, kkrieg doesn't need to say anything toDay and in fact should probably mostly keep quiet as far as to what her opinions/reads are (if she gets nightkilled we lose anyway)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 01:58:28 am
something something chauvinism


i of course mean that in the sense that her reads will be more accurate if there's reason to believe we don't know whether she would tend to townread us or scumread us for certain things
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 04:57:33 am
Hi kkrieg. You should obviously listen to me. I'm the only one here you can trust not to be the SK!

Anyway, SK, whoever you are: good job! I trusted that you would do the right thing.

Should I divulge my theories on who is the SK? Probably not.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 04:59:01 am
i would like faust to tell us whomst he plans to lynch. how about we wait until he is proddable?
Just because I'm not coming to this thread in the middle of the night you assume I'm gonna disappear on you? Your lack of faith is disturbing.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 05:00:27 am
As far as telling you stuff: I think I'm going to kill myself tonight. After all, I have no friends left in this world.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 05:09:05 am
I admit I'm glad I didn't end up having to fight e directly. My fakeclaim was shaky at best. So good job town for lynching Eevee even though he was such an obvious Traitor.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 05:15:38 am
vote: schadd
vote: Robz
vote: schadd


It's so hard to decide!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 05:18:21 am
Also, to make the speccy more fun: Hi mcmc! I'm inclined to believe that the player that we mentioned first (of those alive) in the scum QT is the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 06:37:42 am
I guess I could have just said that in said QT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 06:57:17 am
Popquiz: Whom do you think I shot last night?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:00:16 am
incidentally, counter-argument to the argument that none of you would pose: in theory i should be pretending to be sk so faust doesn't know who to block, but see again: m92, faust is good at reading robz (and moderately good at reading me but m94 is a bit counter to that)
Your heuristic of determining whether I am good at reading someone seems questionable.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:01:10 am
I am also still mad at the SK for shooting mcmc. I was so excited to be scum with him :(
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:07:34 am
As far as telling you stuff: I think I'm going to kill myself tonight. After all, I have no friends left in this world.
I just now noticed that I could have done this yesterday. Sorry, kill victim. I was just too outraged by you lynching my final friend, who I wasn't even sure was my friend until he dropped dead. That is life's irony for you.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:10:12 am
You should do some wagon analysis n stuff!

Look! Two people died who were on the Eevee wagon. What does it all mean? It means scum thought they were townie for it! Robz was also on the Eevee wagon. Thus, he is town. Case closed.

With that, I feel confident to Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:16:01 am
prodge ish. it's mostly up to gkrieg and kkrieg to decide now.


something to consider: whomst does the traitor block if not gkrieg? (prob faust, if faust isn't scum)

Sorry, kkriegs birthday was yesterday, so I'll get to this today or tomorrow.

How about now? I honestly don't think the town can lose here, unless it lynches town (and even then we might be okay). Both Eevee and schadd are definitely not town; Eevee is more likely to be SK. We should lynch Eevee.
This is an excellent piece of analysis. You should frame it and hang it on your wall. Alternatively, it makes a good gravestone engraving.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:25:46 am
A town person should basically want to lynch Robz. He's either the SK, and man losing to the SK is worse than losing to the mafia. I mean everyone agrees that mafiosi are generally better people than serial killers, right? Or he's town, in which case I would be really mad at him as basically the only thing he has been doing this game is to let his team down.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 07:29:12 am
The situation we're in clearly needs a name. My vote goes to NoLo, and also to Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 09:26:36 am
the only thing i'm worried about is that you're sk wifoming but you would have investigation immuned n1 and it also doesn't matter because the plan is the same. plus you autolose in lylo so, cool


do you plan to no kill? uh, do you plan to tell us whether you plan to no kill?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 13, 2017, 10:31:34 am
do you plan to no kill? uh, do you plan to tell us whether you plan to no kill?
I told you, I'm going to kill myself.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 10:34:30 am
that's kind of redundant and not allowed i think?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 13, 2017, 11:04:13 am
Faust's strategy here is to gum up the thread: KKRIEG, OUR ONLY WINNING MOVE IS TO VOTE: NO LYNCH, anything else results in an insta-SK win or insta-mafia win.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 11:27:11 am
i would vote it here as well but i'm kind of worried faust qh's it but like he doesn't have a motive to do that i think
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 08:03:01 pm
prediction: at least 3 different people in speccy have said "nash equilibrium"
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 08:19:39 pm
i guess faust isn't dead yet
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on May 13, 2017, 09:41:16 pm
Bleh. It is bedtime and we need a lynch

Vote: mcmc
Nevermind

Vote: Awaclus
lol lol lol lol townie
it's always the dumbest things that are the most accurate
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: kkrieg on May 13, 2017, 10:31:13 pm
I’ve been kind of quiet because
1.   I think that’s best for town right now
2.   I’ve been rereading the setup and I am now much less confused than I was. There is some very interesting game theory stuff going on here.

I don’t think I should spell out everything I’m thinking right now. Simply put from a town point of view, mafia wins if we lynch the SK and then SK wins if we lynch mafia.

So vote: no lynch
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: kkrieg on May 13, 2017, 10:43:29 pm
Win Conditions:
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
   * If the Traitor is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
  * If either original mafia are the last mafia alive, the SK will win.
I don't know if the bolded text above is true for every game with a SK and mafia, but I think that makes this end game very interesting...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 14, 2017, 04:38:33 am
Vote count 4.1

No Lynch (2): Robz888, kkrieg
Robz888 (1): faust
Not voting (1): schadd

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Day 4 ends Saturday, 20th of May at 1 am FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 04:53:01 am
Win Conditions:
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
   * If the Traitor is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
  * If either original mafia are the last mafia alive, the SK will win.
I don't know if the bolded text above is true for every game with a SK and mafia, but I think that makes this end game very interesting...
[/quote
Oh! That changes everything...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 04:54:52 am
i would vote it here as well but i'm kind of worried faust qh's it but like he doesn't have a motive to do that i think
Why would I quickhammer? I'm like the only person who actually has stuff to figure out before D5 begins.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 06:19:18 am
Robz, why are you so agitated by the way? You don't actually need kkrieg to vote no lynch. As long as you're not voting for anyone and no scum votes for themselves, there's not a whole lot that could go wrong.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 08:21:26 am
Fun stuff from my Robz reread.

Want to lynch: TWM, kkrieg
Could lynch: 2.7, schadd, Andrew
Not inclined to lynch: gkrieg
Won't lynch (not today): Eevee, faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 09:53:42 am
Robz, why are you so agitated by the way? You don't actually need kkrieg to vote no lynch. As long as you're not voting for anyone and no scum votes for themselves, there's not a whole lot that could go wrong.

I'm not agitated, I was just worried that kkrieg might make a mistake, because it's a very complicated situation, and she's a relative newbie, and there's no one alive she knows she can trust.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 10:12:54 am
Robz, why are you so agitated by the way? You don't actually need kkrieg to vote no lynch. As long as you're not voting for anyone and no scum votes for themselves, there's not a whole lot that could go wrong.

I'm not agitated, I was just worried that kkrieg might make a mistake, because it's a very complicated situation, and she's a relative newbie, and there's no one alive she knows she can trust.
Yeah; I'm just saying it doesn't matter if she makes a mistake.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 10:14:33 am
This characde has gone on for long enough. I want to see how it ends.

Vote: No Lynch
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 10:18:19 am
I'm shooting Robz, FYI.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:19:26 am
cool


vote: no lynch

isn't it cool that i'm contributing?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:20:35 am
Robz, why are you so agitated by the way? You don't actually need kkrieg to vote no lynch. As long as you're not voting for anyone and no scum votes for themselves, there's not a whole lot that could go wrong.

I'm not agitated, I was just worried that kkrieg might make a mistake, because it's a very complicated situation, and she's a relative newbie, and there's no one alive she knows she can trust.
Yeah; I'm just saying it doesn't matter if she makes a mistake.

If she had voted faust, and schadd had voted faust, and you had voted yourself just for spite, it would have mattered!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 10:41:32 am
Robz, why are you so agitated by the way? You don't actually need kkrieg to vote no lynch. As long as you're not voting for anyone and no scum votes for themselves, there's not a whole lot that could go wrong.

I'm not agitated, I was just worried that kkrieg might make a mistake, because it's a very complicated situation, and she's a relative newbie, and there's no one alive she knows she can trust.
Yeah; I'm just saying it doesn't matter if she makes a mistake.

If she had voted faust, and schadd had voted faust, and you had voted yourself just for spite, it would have mattered!
That was a very realistic and dangerous scenario...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on May 14, 2017, 10:42:57 am
I have faith in you, Eevee!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on May 14, 2017, 11:16:22 am
Couple of hours later, I'm not home. Twilight till then
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 01:22:30 pm
hurry up i gotta see the flip
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 14, 2017, 02:06:50 pm
Vote count 4.final

No Lynch (3): Robz888, kkrieg, faust
Not voting (1): schadd

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch. No lynch occurred. Night 4 ends Tuesday, 16th of May at 2 pm FT.

If you are okay with starting earlier, tell me in your QT. If I will get all 4 people's confirmation, I'll start earlier.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 14, 2017, 04:02:41 pm
Последний вор элемент преступной группировки, старавшейся всех обокрасть и обмануть был найден мертвым в своем доме. Но почему на душе не легче?

The last Mafia was found dead in his own house. But why doesn't it feel any better?

faust was killed! He was фауст, the Mafia Roleblocker.

День 5 начался!

Vote count 5.0

Not voting (3):
Robz888, schadd, kkrieg

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 21th of May at 4 pm FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Night 4)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 04:04:11 pm
noice


vote: robz

won't be around much today
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 04:35:46 pm
Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 04:39:56 pm
Well, it's up to kkrieg to decide. Let us know what you need from us in order to make your choice.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 14, 2017, 05:04:03 pm
ok awesome no pressure.

I'll reread some today.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 06:14:09 pm
oh incidentally, killing faust right away wasn't the right play for SK. he should have waited (at least) one night so faust thinks he doesn't have strongman, so faust kills kkrieg n5 to pursue his wincon and so sk kills faust n5 as well, endgaming me


in the words of robz in m90, this basically ICs me
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 06:16:22 pm
that is assuming faust didn't kill himself but i'm pretty sure he knew he won if robz had already used strongman
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 06:19:28 pm
oh incidentally, killing faust right away wasn't the right play for SK. he should have waited (at least) one night so faust thinks he doesn't have strongman, so faust kills kkrieg n5 to pursue his wincon and so sk kills faust n5 as well, endgaming me


in the words of robz in m90, this basically ICs me

I don't understand any part of this plan. I realize you've thought about what's in the best interests of the SK longer than I have, but how would this work? Why would faust deviate from just shooting the SK until the SK is dead?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 06:39:14 pm
yeah town is supposed to spend all their time trying to figure out what town would be doing


it's kind of a scumslip that you think faust shot sk (ie me from your point of view). if he thought i was sk, he would have roleblocked me, which means i would have had to strongman, bulletproof to survive, and investigation immune n1, whereas there's only two joat shots. so you're either not bothering to think about the setup or you're not thinking of me as sk


faust kills kkrieg and not you because he only wins if your kill doesn't go through, and so if he kills you then he loses (3 way where he is confscum)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 06:44:06 pm
just so you know, i was planning to vote you if we woke up to kkrieg dead and faust alive
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 09:35:58 pm
yeah town is supposed to spend all their time trying to figure out what town would be doing


it's kind of a scumslip that you think faust shot sk (ie me from your point of view). if he thought i was sk, he would have roleblocked me, which means i would have had to strongman, bulletproof to survive, and investigation immune n1, whereas there's only two joat shots. so you're either not bothering to think about the setup or you're not thinking of me as sk


faust kills kkrieg and not you because he only wins if your kill doesn't go through, and so if he kills you then he loses (3 way where he is confscum)

My best guess is that faust didn't shoot, because he didn't want to be kingmaking. Or he shot kkrieg anyway, and kkrieg commuted to survive--of course, kkrieg knows whether that's what happened. Or he for some reason hedged his bets, shooting you but blocking me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:03:17 pm
Or he for some reason hedged his bets, shooting you but blocking me.
if he shoots sk that isn't bulletproof he loses. if he doesn't roleblock sk he is more than likely shot (if he thought it was me, it would have seemed like i planned to shoot that night; you apparently aren't aware of any plan involving no-kill the first night)


she can say whether she commuted, if she wants to. i would think she did n3.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:07:13 pm
Or he for some reason hedged his bets, shooting you but blocking me.
if he shoots sk that isn't bulletproof he loses. if he doesn't roleblock sk he is more than likely shot (if he thought it was me, it would have seemed like i planned to shoot that night; you apparently aren't aware of any plan involving no-kill the first night)

He loses in all situations. You have not laid out a situation where faust doesn't lose. The only one I can think of would be faust shooting a defenseless SK at the same time as the SK killing the last (or second last townie).

You want the town cred for proposing an SK plan, saying you didn't act on it and that the proves you town, except it wasn't a good plan anyway, which is why you didn't do it.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:11:10 pm
if sk doesn't have strongman left, then faust (can) win. roleblock sk every night, killing kkrieg then killing sk.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:15:17 pm

i guess it doesn't say if scum can action and kill in the same night, but i kind of assumed they could because
- If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive.


could one mafia kill and roleblock on the same night?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:27:59 pm
if sk doesn't have strongman left, then faust (can) win. roleblock sk every night, killing kkrieg then killing sk.

There will be a day phase, though, with faust, SK, and VT all still alive. They would have to do nothing on this day for faust to win. VT could vote with SK to spite kill faust. That's probably what I would do, since it would seem like a no-win position for the town.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:28:08 pm
oh right, the other thing was that faust managed to kill n3 which he could (more than likely) only do if he roleblocked e.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:34:07 pm
if sk doesn't have strongman left, then faust (can) win. roleblock sk every night, killing kkrieg then killing sk.

There will be a day phase, though, with faust, SK, and VT all still alive. They would have to do nothing on this day for faust to win. VT could vote with SK to spite kill faust. That's probably what I would do, since it would seem like a no-win position for the town.
right. but like i said i would have voted you, you also townread faust for a lot of the game iirc and might have similarly felt he deserves the win. and no lynch is still the best move for town since it gives us nonzero chance of winning.


even if that doesn't guarantee faust the win, his optimal action in that case is block sk kill town
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:35:46 pm
obviously i'm mafia since i've been thinking about mafia's optimal action
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:41:07 pm
if sk doesn't have strongman left, then faust (can) win. roleblock sk every night, killing kkrieg then killing sk.

There will be a day phase, though, with faust, SK, and VT all still alive. They would have to do nothing on this day for faust to win. VT could vote with SK to spite kill faust. That's probably what I would do, since it would seem like a no-win position for the town.
right. but like i said i would have voted you, you also townread faust for a lot of the game iirc and might have similarly felt he deserves the win. and no lynch is still the best move for town since it gives us nonzero chance of winning.

Am I town or SK in this hypothetical? In a three-person standoff between mafia!faust, VT!me, and SK!you, in which there was no way for the SK to ever kill again because Mafia can roleblock, I'm not sure what I'm going to do, personally. Straight-up lynching faust would be tempting though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:43:32 pm
i'm saying that it holds no matter who is the town. i said what i would do first because i'm the one that is town
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:48:04 pm
i'm saying that it holds no matter who is the town. i said what i would do first because i'm the one that is town

I think you didn't do this plan of yours because it's pretty risky and you're in a good position to win here in LYLO against me with kkrieg. I admit it, your case for why you are town is better supported by the hard evidence. This is deeply unfortunate, because hard evidence can mislead, and this is exactly how I, as town, have lost to Serial Killers before. But it is what it is.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 10:54:48 pm
it's also supported by soft evidence. gkrieg is a pretty soft guy tbh
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 10:56:50 pm
And on that note, kkrieg, I won't blame you for lynching me... you're new, and it's got to feel like a lot of pressure, you don't want to let down the rest of the town and your IRL husband who roped you into this. And like I said, the case against me is better supported by hard evidence (night actions vs. the "soft" evidence I have, namely that I would never ever ever shoot my brother mcmc Night 1 as scum, he's too easy for me to manipulate), and this is sometimes, not always but sometimes, a game of statistics, and the smarter bet, or at least, the more mathematically sound bet, is on me being scum.

I'm always thinking, when I'm at the end in your position, which decision can I live with even if it ends up being wrong, and I have to think that for you, lynching me is the one you can live with even if it ends up being wrong (which it is). Which is actually a bad, bad, terrible way of making the decision, and probably why I'm not a very good townie! I just lost a game at LYLO, Mafia 97, because I had to make the exact choice you have to make here, and I knew how much I would regret it if I lynched Andrew and I was wrong, because so much evidence was saying Andrew is town, even though I had begun to suspect that this was indeed scum Andrew, and so I made the wrong call. And we lost.

Good luck!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 14, 2017, 11:07:41 pm
on that note, kkrieg, i haven't bothered with any dumb emotional argument because you're good at this game and i'm pretty confident that you'll do fine with the evidence given to you
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 14, 2017, 11:13:29 pm
on that note, kkrieg, i haven't bothered with any dumb emotional argument because you're good at this game and i'm pretty confident that you'll do fine with the evidence given to you

I'm confident in you as well, I'm just perfectly aware that the evidence is probably going to lead you to the wrong conclusion, incidentally.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 15, 2017, 09:15:01 pm
kkrieg, does my reasoning as to why sk should have no-killed last night make sense?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 12:28:08 am
^^ I will address all this tomorrow

Personal note - I just got put on as a project manager for something at work today so I didn't have time to really read everything
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 12:28:36 am
Of course that was page top when I use ^^^
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 08:19:00 am
grats!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 16, 2017, 12:48:20 pm
kkrieg, does my reasoning as to why sk should have no-killed last night make sense?

A thought occurred. Who do you think faust killed last night, E or gkrieg? I know you know exactly which person faust killed, but humor me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 01:20:47 pm
you mean n3? i would assume gkrieg
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 16, 2017, 01:36:54 pm
you mean n3? i would assume gkrieg

Your no-kill plan for the SK only works if faust kills gkrieg, because if gkrieg lives, the SK is outed: gkrieg will have a Detective result on one of the last two candidates for SK. Indeed, the SK is dead in the water if gkrieg survives the night. For this reason, I don't see why faust would actually shoot gkrieg, and I don't see how the SK could safely NOT shoot gkrieg.

Right?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 01:42:07 pm
i was talking about no killing on n4
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 01:43:07 pm
faust no killed n4


if sk didn't kill, faust assumes "oh cool they don't have strongman" and then kills kkrieg the next night, sk kills faust, i'm endgamed
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 01:56:18 pm
it makes sense that sk would want to kill gkrieg n3 but, like, i don't think faust killed e. we would have likely lynched faust d4 (eevee was very not a goon) if, for example, both shot gkrieg, and so if e claims to jail one of us (probably me since i would have had to investigation immune) for n4 that's at least worse than 50-50 odds for sk come d5 (depends on strongman i guess, which it seems like you did still have here) whereas the current scenario ended up a 50-50 in theory
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 16, 2017, 01:59:20 pm
The nights are starting to run together in my head, since I've had nothing to do during any of them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 02:02:14 pm
eh, they're about the same. you lose in both cases unless you have strongman


there's also the possibility of, like, gkrieg & kkrieg dead which is uuuuhhhhhhhh about the same as here i think? thinking of how jk/goon/sk/vt plays out


The nights are starting to run together in my head, since I've had nothing to do during any of them.
i mean like i was thinking about things, at least. again you're making the assumption that i as town should have just twiddled my thumbs for 48 hours while i had an entire qt to speculate into
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 02:09:27 pm
thinking of how jk/goon/sk/vt plays out
this is probably just sk win, actually, assuming strongman is unused. we lynch faust because if we try to lynch sk then faust definitely wins, but then sk wins anyway bc strongman. so killing kkrieg would have probably been better than killing e, excepting the fact that sk just powerloses if faust kills kkrieg as well (and faust doesn't espeially care if gkrieg survives since he probably investigates me (since it gives a definite answer after the first inno), like you said)


i should maybe work on reducing the amount of parentheticals in my setup spec
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 02:15:31 pm
gkrieg uhhhhhh should (?) (?) (?) have copped me n3? because i'm more or less guaranteed to still be alive in the morning? like copping faust is kind of unuseful because he was already likely scum from the way claims worked out.


then yes i actually don't know why faust killed gkrieg. maybe just because kkrieg might not have commuted yet?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 09:57:46 pm
And like I said, the case against me is better supported by hard evidence (night actions vs. the "soft" evidence I have, namely that I would never ever ever shoot my brother mcmc Night 1 as scum, he's too easy for me to manipulate)
idk it really bothers me that you brought this up? it seems super scummy?
I started looking into the night 1 kill and there's some weird stuff going on.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 16, 2017, 10:07:03 pm
And like I said, the case against me is better supported by hard evidence (night actions vs. the "soft" evidence I have, namely that I would never ever ever shoot my brother mcmc Night 1 as scum, he's too easy for me to manipulate)
idk it really bothers me that you brought this up? it seems super scummy?
I started looking into the night 1 kill and there's some weird stuff going on.

Well, I would say that you should note a number of other people pointed out that I would not kill mcmc for that reason, it's not just me saying that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 10:08:45 pm
I wasn’t sure where to start so I decided I would look at who died each night and work from there. I only got to night 1 because I think the below is pretty incriminating:

Night 1:
Mafia dies
Mafia probably didn’t kill mafia
So SK killed mafia

Gkrieg detectived (is that a verb in mafia?) night 1
Gkrieg got no kill for schadd night 1
Robz is the SK

I investigated schadd N1, and faust N2, and got didn't kill for both of them.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 10:09:20 pm
Robz explain to me why that ^^ isn't true?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 10:12:14 pm
you usually say "copped" (detective is a variant of cop and cop sounds cooler) or "peeked" if you played werewolf. also "investigated" and "guilty'd" / "inno'd" for specific results.


ppe i also had an explanation for why it isn't necessarily incriminating but you may specifically want it from him
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 10:14:57 pm
I want to hear your explanation but not until Robz explains.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 16, 2017, 10:29:54 pm
I want to hear your explanation but not until Robz explains.

That's the hard evidence I was talking about. The only explanation is that schadd activated Investigative Immunity on Night 1, which is something the SK can do.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 11:12:45 pm
yup


the thing is i would have had to choose to use it n1, and i think there is compelling reason to believe i wouldn't have if i were sk. the way gkrieg put it:
Schadd, if you had investigation immunity one night this game, and were trying to be the last person standing, which night would you have used it on?
my goal would be to survive for, in this game, 5 days if i were sk. gkrieg was able to investigate twice, within reason he could have done a third one as well. i would want to use investigation immunity the night i would most likely be investigated, if at all.


fortunately i already laid out my opinion on who one should cop (again, essentially the same as detective in terms of whomst to target) in NM10 (abridged a bit here):
-in theory, you would actually want to cop someone whom you think has a 50% chance of being scum, maximizing how informative the result is; if there happens to be someone you are absolutely sure is scum for whatever reason, copping them doesn't actually tell you much. in this case you are, uh, allowed to fake a guilty result but most people would say this is ill-advised.
-it is also helpful to cop someone whom you think is difficult to read - in this game, i would think this is TWM (he has had quite good results as scum, twice) and some people may also think this is me, space or awaclus.
so. in an objective sense, come night 1, i think i would have seemed a little less than 50% scum for most people: i defended against the lynch of a townie, and pushed the lynch of a scum (granted, someone who wasn't revealed to be scum during n1, but somebody who would have probably looked bad to most people given how the end of the day turned out). difficult to read, you could maybe make the argument but i would hold that i am at least less intimidating than many of the people here: twm, same as i mentioned in NM10 (2 recent scum mvps, also he just looked weird from the end of the day); robz, also at least 2 scum mvps that i can remember since his return, and strong scum play in general; faust, 2015 scum player of the year (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14437.0); gkrieg, runner up for 2016 scum player of the year (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16774.0); eevee and andrew have both done pretty well as scum recently (i personally lauded both of them for such in m96, andrew was also mvp in m97)


etc etc. i have played scum twice on site, one i won because the setup was rather scum-favored (RMM37) and one that i lost (M87. i was incidentally copped n2.)


granted gkrieg said i was hard to read but that was in addition to something else i don't think i could have reasonably predicted he (or whoever) would choose to cop me for
why investigate me n1? you don't have to answer

Maybe after.  You seemed like a good person to investigate.  Hard to read, and people had opinions about you.
and that was kind of surprising considering he correctly townread me early on in M94, the last game we played together, at a point where that wasn't an especially popular opinion (i did end up getting lynched d1, granted with 6 people defending me but gkrieg was very early on that train). his choice may have been colored by the fact that i had been scumreading him rather ardently for reasons i refused to say at the time (l0l)


so, there it is. i don't think i would have been innately good to cop, for that reason, and at d1 i didn't seem especially scummy by the gamestate, which may not have been true in later days, so i don't think it would have been a good idea to use investigation immunity n1 if i were sk. which means that i think that gkrieg would have had a guilty on me if i were sk. which means i am pretty sure i'm not sk. and maybe you can also come to this conclusion!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 11:22:32 pm
wow that's really too bad I thought that was 100% incriminating

that leaves me very confused about what I should look at next...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 11:24:57 pm
Post Number 1670


et al.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 16, 2017, 11:34:49 pm
Sorry I'm confused.

If schadd were the serial killer, that means he had to use investigation immune.
Then last night he killed Faust and either
1. Faust did no kill
2. Faust targeted schadd and schadd did bulletproof

Or mafia roleblocked schadd and schadd strongmanned?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 16, 2017, 11:45:53 pm
i believe that faust no-killed, knowing that he had the possibility of dying & trying to make the game decided by a proper lylo rather than by his kill. he claimed to have shot robz, and if that's true then robz is just the sk. but i don't think he did


faust probably roleblocked one of us, because there would be no reason not to. i don't think he would have wanted to shoot either of us, just because he loses if the sk dies (2 towns alive, he's confirmed scum). assuming he did roleblock the sk, the sk would have needed to use strongman, but there isn't reason to believe that robz is more likely to have strongman available than i would, and there is zero chance that any bulletproof shot was used up ahead of time (scum have successfully performed all of 1 kill, which was (presumably) gkrieg n3; faust was blocked n1&2)


i have thought about it a lot and i'm reasonably sure i'm not exonerated by any joat triple-jeopardy argument
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 17, 2017, 12:11:48 am
Well I appreciate you being honest about that.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 17, 2017, 12:16:36 am
thanks!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 17, 2017, 12:17:23 am
So schadd's defense is, why on earth would he use investigation immunity Night 1, which sort of makes sense.

But, well, you would use it to protect yourself from investigation on Night 1, which, however unlikely, IS exactly what happened. Gkrieg picked schadd, for reasons that make sense, because he actually laid them out: schadd is pretty hard to read, doesn't have as much of an established scum meta behavior as the other players in this game. But he is a great player, as you no doubt can tell. It isn't crazy to me that he would have noticed something about gkrieg that made him seem like a Detective, and then became a rightly paranoid he would be gkrieg' choice, activated immunity, and saved himself. Much crazier things have happened.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 17, 2017, 12:26:41 am
yeah, sure. it's not cut and dry. holistically i think it's more likely than not that i would have chosen not to use it. like if i were scared gkrieg would rando cop me night 1 i should be more worried he'd do it n2, i believe. and i still hold that i'm easier to read to most people than most people.


also if i had thought gkrieg was detective wouldn't i have uhhhh shot him


bonus evidence that i just realized: i have been town in every even-numbered game i played here (M86, M92, M94, M96, NM10, M98) and scum in every odd numbered game (M87, RMM37)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 17, 2017, 11:00:58 am
Vote count 5.1

Robz888 (1): schadd
schadd (1): Robz888
Not voting (1): kkrieg

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 21th of May at 4 pm FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 17, 2017, 10:12:41 pm
I just feel like too many weird things would have had to happen for schadd to be SK
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 17, 2017, 10:14:25 pm
I just feel like too many weird things would have had to happen for schadd to be SK

Really just one thing, but yes, it's a little weird. What are the other things?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 18, 2017, 01:01:48 pm
Vote count 5.2

Robz888 (1): schadd
schadd (1): Robz888
Not voting (1): kkrieg

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 21th of May at 4 pm FT.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 19, 2017, 03:24:30 pm
I'm going to reread one more time when I get home from work but I'm 99% voting Robz.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 03:40:15 pm
I'm going to reread one more time when I get home from work but I'm 99% voting Robz.

Don't do it! Don't know what I can say to convince you, though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: schadd on May 19, 2017, 05:02:39 pm
99% voting Robz.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/3ef34f6cc6f98e888f8fd69245ee3e44/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 19, 2017, 09:45:37 pm
ok sorry robz no matter what
sorry everybody if I'm wrong

vote: robz
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 09:52:19 pm
Good job  ;D
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 09:53:00 pm
I don't know what more I could have done. Damn that stupid Night 1 gkrieg investigation!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: kkrieg on May 19, 2017, 09:55:03 pm
oh good I was legit losing sleep over this deicicon
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 09:57:00 pm
I was NOT losing sleep, knowing there was almost no way I could win. All the evidence was against me.

I don't think I could have actually no-killed for schadd's plan, though. Faust would have just spite killed me, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 09:58:08 pm
Also, schadd is wrong. I had to kill gkrieg myself. Faust shot E.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 09:59:56 pm
So, if anyone is curious, it's absolutely true I would not ever kill mcmc, generally. What made me do it is that he had claimed VT, and since he had claimed VT, I thought it was unlikely the mafia would shoot him. My goal, as SK, was to just not duplicate the mafia's kill. That's the sole reason I shot him--I thought there was no way the mafia would also shoot him. In any other circumstance, I would not shoot mcmc.

I can't believe no one thought of that, by the way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: LaLight on May 19, 2017, 10:26:35 pm
Thread locked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (PMs are out! N0)
Post by: LaLight on May 19, 2017, 10:28:03 pm
Vote count 5.final

Robz888 (2): kkrieg, schadd
schadd (1): Robz888

With 3 alive it took 2 to lynch.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: LaLight on May 19, 2017, 10:30:13 pm
Damn, 5am and I am not sleeping.
Robz888 was lynched! He was Робз888, the Serial Killer!
Town won!

let's discuss on MVP

QT later, I need to sleep a little

Thread unlocked
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 19, 2017, 10:45:12 pm
So, if anyone is curious, it's absolutely true I would not ever kill mcmc, generally. What made me do it is that he had claimed VT, and since he had claimed VT, I thought it was unlikely the mafia would shoot him. My goal, as SK, was to just not duplicate the mafia's kill. That's the sole reason I shot him--I thought there was no way the mafia would also shoot him. In any other circumstance, I would not shoot mcmc.

I can't believe no one thought of that, by the way.
Yeah. That is a good point. Well done by the way.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 19, 2017, 10:46:27 pm
let's discuss on MVP
My three nominations would be gkrieg, kkrieg and 2.7.

Has there ever been a joint MVP? It would only make this game more adorable if it were shared by kkrieg and gkrieg. Although I do think there is a good case for 2.7 here.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 19, 2017, 10:47:00 pm
Also. Not so humble brag. I am now 4-0 in mafia games! :)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 19, 2017, 10:48:36 pm
This was my second game in a row where I've only been voting for scum at the end of the day
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 19, 2017, 10:52:54 pm
This was one of my favorite games to play. I thought Faust had an amazing game, every time I tried to prove him scum I couldn't find any concrete evidence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 10:53:40 pm
I think schadd deserves an MVP nomination here. I almost never lose because I've been out-argued, and while schadd had it good because he had hard evidence on his side, he presented the case really well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 19, 2017, 10:56:35 pm
This was one of my favorite games to play. I thought Faust had an amazing game, every time I tried to prove him scum I couldn't find any concrete evidence.
Which goes to show that sometimes pseudoscience, gut reads are better than pure reliance on concrete methods.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 19, 2017, 10:59:29 pm
My favorite part of this game was that on D3 when we were deciding who to lynch, whether i was actually the jk or scum.... any faction had a shot at winning. Not too often do we have a game with that scenario. I loved it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 11:01:46 pm
My favorite part of this game was that on D3 when we were deciding who to lynch, whether i was actually the jk or scum.... any faction had a shot at winning. Not too often do we have a game with that scenario. I loved it

Ehh.... easy for you to say. I actually think town had like an 80% chance of winning at that point, I had like maybe an 18% chance of winning, and mafia had a 2% chance of winning.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 19, 2017, 11:06:42 pm
My favorite part of this game was that on D3 when we were deciding who to lynch, whether i was actually the jk or scum.... any faction had a shot at winning. Not too often do we have a game with that scenario. I loved it

Ehh.... easy for you to say. I actually think town had like an 80% chance of winning at that point, I had like maybe an 18% chance of winning, and mafia had a 2% chance of winning.

I can see that. Biggest problem scum (mafia and sk) had was their inability to kill the PRs. Too many ICs hanging out
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 19, 2017, 11:17:40 pm
Town did very well at night
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on May 19, 2017, 11:19:50 pm
Sad I was killed so early.  :(
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 19, 2017, 11:26:31 pm
Sad I was killed so early.  :(

Makes sense now that Robz explained his killing strategy.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 19, 2017, 11:27:20 pm
Sad I was killed so early.  :(

Makes sense now that Robz explained his killing strategy.

Yup! A strategy that went horribly wrong here...
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on May 19, 2017, 11:32:22 pm
Sad I was killed so early.  :(

Makes sense now that Robz explained his killing strategy.

Yup! A strategy that went horribly wrong here...

I'm confused about your strategy. You were trying to shoot someone mafia was unlikely to shoot, but that implies you were gunning for town. So you had townreads on mcmc and me?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on May 19, 2017, 11:59:22 pm
My mvp vote goes to 2.7, if we're talking actual most valuable player, there no way town accomplishes everything they did without 2.7 blocking every single mafia kill. Granted he got the perfect storm assist from robz killing the only other mafia member who could make a nk, but still the understanding that he did infact block mafia, not protect a target, really neutered the entire scum team.

Valiant effort by robz and wonderful close out by schadd/kkrieg to seal the deal.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 12:45:29 am
Sad I was killed so early.  :(

Makes sense now that Robz explained his killing strategy.

Yup! A strategy that went horribly wrong here...

I'm confused about your strategy. You were trying to shoot someone mafia was unlikely to shoot, but that implies you were gunning for town. So you had townreads on mcmc and me?

That's correct. I believed mcmc when he said he was a VT, and you have made some slip that suggested you were unlikely to be anything special. I was killing off people I didn't think the mafia would target. This backfired horribly, since the mafia were unable to kill any PRs.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 01:05:33 am
Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 01:27:17 am
Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.

So I think Faust shot you, but did you use strongman and bulletproof N4?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:09:06 am
Also, schadd is wrong. I had to kill gkrieg myself. Faust shot E.
Of course I did. I knew the SK would need to prevent further investigations, and I needed to force 2 town deaths.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:09:51 am
Would like to know how many shots Robz had actually left.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:25:49 am
So, if anyone is curious, it's absolutely true I would not ever kill mcmc, generally. What made me do it is that he had claimed VT, and since he had claimed VT, I thought it was unlikely the mafia would shoot him. My goal, as SK, was to just not duplicate the mafia's kill. That's the sole reason I shot him--I thought there was no way the mafia would also shoot him. In any other circumstance, I would not shoot mcmc.

I can't believe no one thought of that, by the way.
Uh. Having a player die that you really want dead beats skipping the 10 % chance of hitting the same player that mafia does.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:28:35 am
Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.

So I think Faust shot you, but did you use strongman and bulletproof N4?
I shot him. I thought schadd was SK, so I blocked schadd. I should have blocked Robz as well, which would have prevented the Strongman if he only had 1 shot left because BP takes precedence.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:31:24 am
The in-thread assumptions about how I as mafia would play were really off. For some reason nobody saw that I basically had the power to decide the game unless the SK had both shots left.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:32:24 am
I also thought Eevee blocked e N2 (that he didn't still baffles me), and since I targeted schadd there, that would have made him the SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 03:34:35 am
To think, we could have started D3 with all VTs dead... that would have been most hilarious.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 06:20:19 am
I also thought Eevee blocked e N2 (that he didn't still baffles me), and since I targeted schadd there, that would have made him the SK.
I had a roleblocker? This is news to me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 06:22:09 am
Also gg kkrieg and the rest of town and thanks to LL for running this, fun game. My personal contribution wasn't the most exciting this time, I was kind of doing nothing all game and then got lynched.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 06:27:03 am
I also thought Eevee blocked e N2 (that he didn't still baffles me), and since I targeted schadd there, that would have made him the SK.
I had a roleblocker? This is news to me.
Err... what?

-.-
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 06:30:12 am
I mean, come on. Either there was information missing from the role PMs this game or we've had some unacceptable amount of not reading.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 06:39:55 am
I also thought Eevee blocked e N2 (that he didn't still baffles me), and since I targeted schadd there, that would have made him the SK.
I had a roleblocker? This is news to me.
Err... what?

-.-
I thought I only got it when I was converted! (And I thought I would get acccess to the QT if I was converted.)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 07:40:08 am
I was under the impression I would only become a roleblocker if I was converted to a full mafia member.

This is all I found in the first post: "If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive."

What am I missing?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 07:40:37 am
Eh, internet issues, sorry for the double post.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 20, 2017, 07:46:35 am
I was under the impression I would only become a roleblocker if I was converted to a full mafia member.

This is all I found in the first post: "If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive."

What am I missing?

Look, please, at your QT at the name of your role and description of it
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 08:22:39 am
Ehhh. Sorry team. (Blame me, not the mod.)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 20, 2017, 08:35:36 am
Ehhh. Sorry team. (Blame me, not the mod.)

Actually I was torn. In the every end of the night I was reading Eevee's QT to see if maybe I forget to tell him he's roleblocker. After that I was really deeply thinking about how should I tell him he's Roleblocker and I decided I won't. After that I've seen a lot of discussion in-thread about ho Traitor might roleblock and thought that may be Eevee will see it...

Overall, should I have said, like, No one was chosen for Roleblocking or something like that?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Eevee on May 20, 2017, 09:37:49 am
I mean, I guess you could have given me a heads up, but it also seems fair that my faction should suffer from me making a mistake.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 10:21:32 am
Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.

So I think Faust shot you, but did you use strongman and bulletproof N4?

Yeah, I strong killed him, and I lost my investigative immunity so my bulletproof got used up as well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 10:22:48 am
Thinking about this game more, I think my big mistake was killing Andrew on Night 2, instead of gkrieg. I should have killed gkrieg. This would have prevented his Night 1 investigation of schadd from coming to light.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 10:50:19 am
Thinking about this game more, I think my big mistake was killing Andrew on Night 2, instead of gkrieg. I should have killed gkrieg. This would have prevented his Night 1 investigation of schadd from coming to light.

Ya I hadn't breadcrumbed it at all, so it would've died with me.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 10:51:00 am
Do we get QTs LaLight?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 20, 2017, 10:51:42 am
Do we get QTs LaLight?

When I will be at the computer, est. 40 minutes. You may share yours :))
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 10:54:29 am
Do we get QTs LaLight?

When I will be at the computer, est. 40 minutes. You may share yours :))

Okay thanks!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 10:55:38 am
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Gn99XtYF3mA
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 20, 2017, 11:24:36 am
Reading through gkrieg's qt I was reminded about the roleblock/JK thing.  My opinion on the matter is pretty simple:  Mod decides, preferably before play starts.  Like it says on the mafiascum wiki, there is no consensus.  I know when I have run this setup before I have failed to note what will happen in the double roleblock scenario, and I think the way LaLight handled it was perfect.  We can always have a discussion about which technique (total blocking of everything for both players or just the roleblocking stopped and other actions can continue) but I have no issue at all with how it was played this game.  The worst thing that could happen is if a mod says one thing and changes it to another, which is not the case.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: J Reggie on May 20, 2017, 11:27:32 am
This game was fun to spectate. Really not sure who should get MVP. So many people played well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 20, 2017, 11:30:44 am
Speccy (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/YUVLWBQYQFy)
Scum QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/QB9GwiXnycNB)
Mod QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/4cKAHGSuHyNt)

I will also ask schadd to share his, it was cool.

Let's handle MVP Andrew's way. Send me your nominees and I will announce MVP in 2 days. I will vote too.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 11:32:09 am
yeah there are a lot of mvps which made me remember an earlier thought i had, that this was, like, a really good game. d3 with 7 differently-named roles, kingmaking, all that stuff (which was annoying at the time but fun in retrospect)


mine's in english
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/QCW9VTMJapyh


wherein i asked lalight to relay on:
-thanks to faust for being a good sport and no-killing (which is what happened, yes?)
-props to kkrieg for being right about faust (and incidentally on robz just now)


because if i said either of them in thread there would be some way robz would spin them (l0l)
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 11:32:23 am
My personal feeling about the blocking thing is that the OP says that things on the same level happen simultaneously. That implies that both players would be blocked.

It's like if the SK and mafia killed each other, you wouldn't expect one kill to go through and the other to not go through.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 11:33:07 am
-thanks to faust for being a good sport and no-killing (which is what happened, yes?)
o


thanks rescinded 3:<
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 11:40:23 am
I also thought Eevee blocked e N2 (that he didn't still baffles me), and since I targeted schadd there, that would have made him the SK.
I had a roleblocker? This is news to me.
so i was wondering why gkrieg got 2 results while you knew faust was your partner
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 11:56:23 am
@people in speccy re: me d5: yeah, i did ramble about stuff a lot. the thing about it is that robz wasn't really doing anything and i could look more townie by trying to think about stuff, even if there wasn't much to do. if i had just said "cmon i got investigated as town, it's obvo, i implore thee vote robz" then he & i would have sounded the same today
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 12:04:12 pm
oh incidentally now that i'm not in a game i'm turning off online visibility
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 12:12:33 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 20, 2017, 12:22:36 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

I think it depends on if non-VTs ever die. Even one more death would've favored it towards scum
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 20, 2017, 12:26:58 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
i would think probably yes. goon/goon/traitor in 12p where scum can only improve their situation (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Stack_the_Deck) is even, and this setup is town-favored in comparison by virtue of having a bunch more stuff. that said, town winrate on this site is yikes
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 12:31:03 pm
Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.

So I think Faust shot you, but did you use strongman and bulletproof N4?

Yeah, I strong killed him, and I lost my investigative immunity so my bulletproof got used up as well.
So I could have won had I read you correctly. Damn.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 12:33:14 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
Every setup where no PRs die until D3 is going to play out well for town.

I was a bit harsh that there are no real fakeclaim opportunities that don't instantly put you in a one-on-one situation, at least not once SK is confirmed.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

I wonder how the game would be played if you killed not mcmc but yet another vt
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 12:38:14 pm
Ehhh. Sorry team. (Blame me, not the mod.)

Actually I was torn. In the every end of the night I was reading Eevee's QT to see if maybe I forget to tell him he's roleblocker. After that I was really deeply thinking about how should I tell him he's Roleblocker and I decided I won't. After that I've seen a lot of discussion in-thread about ho Traitor might roleblock and thought that may be Eevee will see it...

Overall, should I have said, like, No one was chosen for Roleblocking or something like that?

Usually I post "no action taken" after the deadline. Having failed to submit the action would have already hurt their faction, and it might be too hard on the rest of the faction if it continues. See M99 wherein Jimmmmm forgot to place a N1 Watcher investigation.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 20, 2017, 12:39:19 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
i would think probably yes. goon/goon/traitor in 12p where scum can only improve their situation (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Stack_the_Deck) is even, and this setup is town-favored in comparison by virtue of having a bunch more stuff. that said, town winrate on this site is yikes
Well, that comparison only really works for games with no SK.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 20, 2017, 01:16:06 pm
Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

Well, it might feel that way since scum lost a night kill two nights with me JKing faust
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: Robz888 on May 20, 2017, 01:56:06 pm
Yeah. Well anyway, it's nice to have town win one for a change!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 20, 2017, 05:37:54 pm
I knew I had a townie vibe going into Day 2! Even mafia thought so and wanted to kill me!you scummy guys really had me questioning myself really hard there. Well done.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 20, 2017, 05:41:24 pm
Although I guess it is more that I was unlikely to be JKed, which isn't nearly as flattering. Oh well.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: LaLight on May 22, 2017, 12:02:32 pm
2.71828..... is MVP!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on May 22, 2017, 03:25:03 pm
My first MVP! Thanks. I had a great time with this game
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 23, 2017, 09:21:43 pm
Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on May 23, 2017, 10:01:22 pm
My first MVP! Thanks. I had a great time with this game
Yay!
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: schadd on May 23, 2017, 11:03:42 pm
Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
my belief has been that, from a balance-y perspective, jailing the person who does the kill is +1 point to town and blocking the jailer is +1 point to scum, so it evens out and the kill goes through. but i thought about it more and it's like, jailing roleblocker should be like +1 point for jailing the killer and plus like .5 points for jailing the roleblocker. so, uh, ideally the kill half goes through.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 24, 2017, 12:16:45 am
But my counter argument would be that they go through simultaneously, so if it were a kill, your way says that only one kill would count instead of both kills going through.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 24, 2017, 03:13:23 am
Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
I think there's no such thing in mafia as things happening simultaneously, that is an error in the OP and it should be clearly stated in which order they are resolved.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 24, 2017, 06:53:45 am
Resolution order should clearly delineate which one happens first so this isn't a problem.

So, you have either:

JK jails RB Killer, RB Killer can take no actions and is protected from one NK.
RB blocks JK, fails due to being jailed.
RB kills VT, fails due to being jailed.

Or

RB blocks JK, JK can take no actions.
JK targets RB Killer, fails due to being blocked.
RB kills VT.

For me, since the ruling is that both actions resolve simultaneously...either both succeed or both fail, mod's discretion that needs to be kept consistent (and public).  If they both succeed, no kills to follow.  If they both fail, kill can happen.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 24, 2017, 09:58:47 am
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 24, 2017, 12:09:38 pm
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 24, 2017, 12:27:46 pm
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 24, 2017, 12:42:02 pm
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?

RB is jailed, can't block or kill.  If JK then tried to kill the RB, it would fail due how jailor protection.

Not sure I understand the question.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 25, 2017, 05:11:35 pm
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?
I think of the resolution in this case as follows: players don't actually die until all actions have been resolved. Prior to that, they are merely "flagged for death", so to speak. I try to make that clear when writing role PMs.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 25, 2017, 06:34:04 pm
So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?

RB is jailed, can't block or kill.  If JK then tried to kill the RB, it would fail due how jailor protection.

Not sure I understand the question.

Sorry, completely different scenario. No RB, no JK, just two scum shooting each other
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 26, 2017, 06:13:58 am
I think generally two scum can kill each other -- you have to think of it as simultaneously pulling the trigger: the bullets pass by each other and hit their intended targets.

If flavored kills are important (i.e., SK uses a knife), then you can stab and shoot at the same time, as I'm sure many action movies have shown us.

That's my take on that particular situation, anyway.  I'd have them both die.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 26, 2017, 09:31:10 am
I think generally two scum can kill each other -- you have to think of it as simultaneously pulling the trigger: the bullets pass by each other and hit their intended targets.

If flavored kills are important (i.e., SK uses a knife), then you can stab and shoot at the same time, as I'm sure many action movies have shown us.

That's my take on that particular situation, anyway.  I'd have them both die.

But doesn't that mean that both blocks should go through in the RB/JK situation?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 26, 2017, 10:20:04 am
I am not sure where you are going with this, gkrieg. Obviously it is necessary to have a ruling beforehand, but ultimately it does not really matter what that ruling is as long as it is comunicated clearly and is balanced.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 26, 2017, 10:22:39 am
I am not sure where you are going with this, gkrieg. Obviously it is necessary to have a ruling beforehand, but ultimately it does not really matter what that ruling is as long as it is comunicated clearly and is balanced.

True. I guess I'm saying that I interpret it so that if both the killings would go through, both the lickings should go through, so both are blocked.

But yes, a ruling beforehand that is clear makes none of this conversation matter.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 26, 2017, 12:05:26 pm
The blocking have specific effects on each other; that's the whole do X until nothing can change it routine from yuma's original resolution chain.

For me, killing each other doesn't affect each other in the same way -- dying happens last, after killing, so dying doesn't block an action from happening.

If it did, all kills would also be roleblocks.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 26, 2017, 12:12:16 pm
The blocking have specific effects on each other; that's the whole do X until nothing can change it routine from yuma's original resolution chain.

For me, killing each other doesn't affect each other in the same way -- dying happens last, after killing, so dying doesn't block an action from happening.

If it did, all kills would also be roleblocks.

I guess I always interpreted it that way.  Killing does roleblock, and that is why it is always late in the resolution chain.  So to me, dead investigative PRs (investigation usually happens last) shouldn't get a result, but that doesn't usually matter, because they are dead.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: ashersky on May 26, 2017, 12:18:11 pm
The blocking have specific effects on each other; that's the whole do X until nothing can change it routine from yuma's original resolution chain.

For me, killing each other doesn't affect each other in the same way -- dying happens last, after killing, so dying doesn't block an action from happening.

If it did, all kills would also be roleblocks.

I guess I always interpreted it that way.  Killing does roleblock, and that is why it is always late in the resolution chain.  So to me, dead investigative PRs (investigation usually happens last) shouldn't get a result, but that doesn't usually matter, because they are dead.

Well, even if they shouldn't get results, the investigation itself happened.  You can list results delivery as something to be resolved after the death phase, maybe.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 26, 2017, 12:31:51 pm
The blocking have specific effects on each other; that's the whole do X until nothing can change it routine from yuma's original resolution chain.

For me, killing each other doesn't affect each other in the same way -- dying happens last, after killing, so dying doesn't block an action from happening.

If it did, all kills would also be roleblocks.

I guess I always interpreted it that way.  Killing does roleblock, and that is why it is always late in the resolution chain.  So to me, dead investigative PRs (investigation usually happens last) shouldn't get a result, but that doesn't usually matter, because they are dead.
I feel like at the core here is a misunderstanding of how night action resolution works. Night action resolution is not resolve 1 category of actions, then resolve the next and so on. Night action resolution is: Find some action that could not be modified by any other action that same night. Resolve it, then continue. Only in case of conflict do you actually need a resolution order.

For an example: Bus Driving usually happens prior to roleblocking in the order. Assume player A blocks B, and B Bus Drives C and D. The correct resolution should be that B is blocked and their action does not have any effect. If we were to resolve things by category, the bus driving would still happen. In my opinion, that's wrong.

Now the other example is A blocks B, B bus drives B and C (yes B can self-target). Now there is a conflict: B would be blocked, but at the same time if Bs action is successful, they are no longer targeted by the blocking. So here we need to know: What happens first? And if Bus Driving happens first, then it is executed and results in C being blocked.

Now, if killing was also roleblocking, then in a situation where A kills B, B doctors C, we would have to conclude that Bs action fails. But that is not how I would want to resolve things.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 26, 2017, 12:35:40 pm
The blocking have specific effects on each other; that's the whole do X until nothing can change it routine from yuma's original resolution chain.

For me, killing each other doesn't affect each other in the same way -- dying happens last, after killing, so dying doesn't block an action from happening.

If it did, all kills would also be roleblocks.

I guess I always interpreted it that way.  Killing does roleblock, and that is why it is always late in the resolution chain.  So to me, dead investigative PRs (investigation usually happens last) shouldn't get a result, but that doesn't usually matter, because they are dead.
I feel like at the core here is a misunderstanding of how night action resolution works. Night action resolution is not resolve 1 category of actions, then resolve the next and so on. Night action resolution is: Find some action that could not be modified by any other action that same night. Resolve it, then continue. Only in case of conflict do you actually need a resolution order.

For an example: Bus Driving usually happens prior to roleblocking in the order. Assume player A blocks B, and B Bus Drives C and D. The correct resolution should be that B is blocked and their action does not have any effect. If we were to resolve things by category, the bus driving would still happen. In my opinion, that's wrong.

Now the other example is A blocks B, B bus drives B and C (yes B can self-target). Now there is a conflict: B would be blocked, but at the same time if Bs action is successful, they are no longer targeted by the blocking. So here we need to know: What happens first? And if Bus Driving happens first, then it is executed and results in C being blocked.

Now, if killing was also roleblocking, then in a situation where A kills B, B doctors C, we would have to conclude that Bs action fails. But that is not how I would want to resolve things.

I have always interpreted it in the way that you don't interpret it.  In your first scenario, the bus driving would still have taken place.  That is why roleblocking is always at the top of my resolution chains (well except for things like commuting and passive modifiers).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 26, 2017, 12:41:46 pm
This interpretation to me has the undesirable side effect that however you organize things, some actions can either not be blocked, or not be redirected, or not be Bus Driven etc. It's counter-intuitive and unfun to me as it limits the possible interactions. It also doesn't follow mafiascum standards.

Do you think that your way of resolving night actions has any benefits that mine does not?
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 26, 2017, 12:59:27 pm
This interpretation to me has the undesirable side effect that however you organize things, some actions can either not be blocked, or not be redirected, or not be Bus Driven etc. It's counter-intuitive and unfun to me as it limits the possible interactions. It also doesn't follow mafiascum standards.

Do you think that your way of resolving night actions has any benefits that mine does not?

I don't think there are any benefits, but I also don't think it is counter-intuitive and unfun.  I think it is just a different way.

The biggest side-effect is that some actions become stronger (higher up the chain), and that some actions become weaker.  I guess I haven't really considered your interpretation of it though (which means it doesn't come up very often that the two interpretations are different).
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 26, 2017, 01:19:02 pm
This interpretation to me has the undesirable side effect that however you organize things, some actions can either not be blocked, or not be redirected, or not be Bus Driven etc. It's counter-intuitive and unfun to me as it limits the possible interactions. It also doesn't follow mafiascum standards.

Do you think that your way of resolving night actions has any benefits that mine does not?

I don't think there are any benefits, but I also don't think it is counter-intuitive and unfun.  I think it is just a different way.

The biggest side-effect is that some actions become stronger (higher up the chain), and that some actions become weaker.  I guess I haven't really considered your interpretation of it though (which means it doesn't come up very often that the two interpretations are different).
I would think that most RMMs should have at least one interaction where this makes a difference.

In fact, the first game I checked in the first night I checked (RMM38, final night) had a resolution where it would have made a difference.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: faust on May 26, 2017, 01:22:18 pm
And it definitely is counter-intuitive, and also counter what's written in the PM unless you specifically modify them. For instance, Bus Driver would say: "Target two players. Any action targeting one of them instead targets the other."

But that is wrong information in your scheme, since it is not true for any action, so it should say "any non-blocking action", which is awkward.
Title: Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 30, 2017, 11:51:34 am
And it definitely is counter-intuitive, and also counter what's written in the PM unless you specifically modify them. For instance, Bus Driver would say: "Target two players. Any action targeting one of them instead targets the other."

But that is wrong information in your scheme, since it is not true for any action, so it should say "any non-blocking action", which is awkward.

I think bus driver is the hardest one, because redirection makes strange things happen.  While I do agree with what you are saying, I actually like my way of resolving actions better, because it makes more sense to me.