Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: LaLight on February 22, 2017, 08:44:55 am

Title: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: LaLight on February 22, 2017, 08:44:55 am
Welcome to M96: Fibonacci Mafia!

Mod: LaLight

This is a semi-open setup for 12 players in the style of faust9++. See second post for additional information.

Players:
1. schadd
2. The_Wine_Merchant
3. IDontPlayThisGame Killed N3: 1-shot Governor
4. AndrewisFTTW Lynched D3: Mafia Rolecop
5. Joseph2302 Lynched D1: 1-shot Governor
6. Robz888
7. pingpongsam
8. Eevee
9. Witherweaver
10. mcmcsalot Killed N2: Virgin
11. ashersky Killed N1: VT
12. Dylan32 Lynched D2: VT

Spectators tagged: Roadrunner7671, ashersky

Day starts/ends:

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in purple.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Twilight lasts 12 hours, Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 22, 2017, 08:45:10 am
Setup:

faust9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up. Scum factional powers always include a 1-night Switch. The remaining 11 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-10. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-4: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.)
5: I (Investigative)
6: B (Blocking)
7: P (Protective)
8: K (Killing)
9: V (Voting)
10: W (Wildcard)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

Investigative Roles
I = Tracker
II = Watcher
III = Tracker, Watcher
IIII = Tracker, Tracker, Watcher
IIIII = Tracker, Watcher, Watcher
IIIIII = Tracker, Tracker, Watcher, Watcher

Blocking Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Jailkeeper
BBB = Roleblocker, Roleblocker
BBBB = Roleblocker, Jailkeeper
BBBBB = Jailkeeper, Jailkeeper
BBBBBB = Jailkeeper, Jailkeeper, Roleblocker

Protective Roles
P = Virgin OR Bodyguard OR 1-shot Commuter*
PP = Virgin, Bodyguard
PPP = 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard
PPPP = 1-shot Commuter, Virgin, Bodyguard
PPPPP = 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard
PPPPPP = 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard

Killing Roles
K = 1-night PGO
KK = Vigilante
KKK = 1-night PGO, Vigilante
KKKK = 1-night PGO, 1-night PGO, Vigilante
KKKKK = 1-night PGO, Vigilante, Vigilante
KKKKKK = 1-night PGO, 1-night PGO, Vigilante, Vigilante

Voting Roles
V** = Restess Spirit
VV = 1-shot Governor
VVV = Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor
VVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit
VVVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor
VVVVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor, 1-shot Governor

Wildcard Roles
For the wildcard slot, the number of Ws is determined. Then a random other category (I, B, P, K or V) is determined and roles are added as though that number of that character had been rolled. Example:

    The roll is WWWBBT. The random category determined is also B. This adds to the game:
    1 Jailkeeper (from BB) + 2 Roleblockers (from BBB)

Scum Roles (In addition to the factional 1-night Switch)
TTTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon
TTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TTTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon
TTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TT = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman
T = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***
0 Ts = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single V rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Restless Spirit
*** In some cases, scum receives a Hidden Ascetic. This means that one scum player is randomly Ascetic. They are not informed about this. The role flips upon death.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot. The will know if they have a shot remaining.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Restless Spirit due to a single V roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--If there is a single V roll and a single W roll that converts to V, the UB will not be converted and there will be a single Restless Spirit.
--The Universal Backup can never inherit a Restless Spirit's power.
--The Mafia factional 1-night Switch vanillaises all roles in one of the above categories (I, B, P, K, V) that the mafia chooses in one night and the following day and twilight. Wildcard roles count as their respective category. This action cannot be blocked.
--Twilight starts immediately after a lynch succeeded, even without mod confirmation.
--The mafia QT opens at the start of Twilight and closes at the start of the Day.
--A player targeted by both Bodyguard and Strongman will die, but the Bodguard will live.
--Scum actions take precedence over town actions in the action resolution chain if they are of the same category.


Flavor:

Every player will have a unique Fibonacci number as their flavor name. Alignment will be distributed independently of flavor names.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 22, 2017, 08:45:17 am
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Vanilla Townie!

You have no special powers.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Universal Backup!

The first time a power role dies, you will inherit their abilities.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Tracker!

Each night, you may target 1 player. At the end of the night, you will receive a list of all players that your target targeted that night.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Watcher!

Each night, you may target 1 player. At the end of the night, you will receive a list of all players that targeted your target that night.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Roleblocker!

Each night, you may target 1 player. Each action that player takes that night or the following Twilight will be blocked.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Jailkeeper!

Each night, you may target 1 player. Each action that player takes that night or the following Twilight will be blocked. Any killing role targeting your target will fail.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Virgin!

If you killed during the night, the following night the mafia's nightkill will be blocked. Your power is permanently lost if you are targeted by a Roleblocker.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Bodyguard!

Each night, you may target 1 player. If that player is targeted by a nightkill, you die instead.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-shot Commuter!

Once in the game, at night, you may choose to commute. If you do, any action targeting you that night will be blocked.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-night Paranoid Gun Owner!

Once during the game, at night, you may choose to activate your power. If you do, all players targeting you that night will die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Vigilante!

Each night, you may target 1 player. That player will die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Restless Spirit!

After you have died, you may still vote in the thread, but you may not make any other posts.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-shot Governor!

Once during the game, at Twilight, you may choose to activate your power. If you do, the player with the most votes will not die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Goon!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Rolecop!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Each night, you may target one other player. You will know what role this player has. You may use this in addition to the factional kill.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia 1-shot Ninja!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Once in the game, at night, you may choose to use your Ninja power. If you do and perform the factional kill that night, no investigative roles will be able to see your action. Additionally, you cannot trigger a Paranoid Gun Owner.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia 2-shot Ninja!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Twice in the game, at night, you may choose to use your Ninja power. If you do and perform the factional kill that night, no investigative roles will be able to see your action. Additionally, you cannot trigger a Paranoid Gun Owner.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Strongman!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
If you perform your faction's kill, no protective role targeting your target (Jailkeeper or Bodyguard) can save them.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on February 22, 2017, 08:46:21 am
/tag
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on February 22, 2017, 09:05:23 am
/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on February 22, 2017, 09:05:42 am
Probably /in. Can play if it starts after March 5th.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on February 22, 2017, 11:55:30 pm
/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on February 23, 2017, 07:27:46 am
You could be modding 2 games at the same time!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 23, 2017, 07:37:17 am
You could be modding 2 games at the same time!

My personal record is 3 modded/comodded games at a time iirc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2017, 11:19:56 am
I would love to play in this game, but I don't have time for it right now.

If it takes long enough to start, I'm in.

But don't send me the speccy if you start without me, I'd rather be a sub if you wind up needing one.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 23, 2017, 11:20:21 am
I would love to play in this game, but I don't have time for it right now.

If it takes long enough to start, I'm in.

But don't send me the speccy if you start without me, I'd rather be a sub if you wind up needing one.

Sure!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Witherweaver on February 23, 2017, 11:23:30 am
I'm in the same boat as UoS.  Things look fairly hairy for the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on February 23, 2017, 02:27:02 pm
I'll probably sign up eventually, assuming it doesn't fill fast, but can't commit until these other games progress a bit more.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: ashersky on February 23, 2017, 03:30:57 pm
Tag
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Dylan32 on February 23, 2017, 05:25:33 pm
I'm in the same boat as Robz.  Basically I just don't want to mess with being in more than 2 games at a time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on February 23, 2017, 05:35:54 pm
[chairs]man, all this talk about boats[/chairs]
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on February 24, 2017, 01:11:37 pm
/in

I've missed you all.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on February 24, 2017, 01:55:40 pm
woweee!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 24, 2017, 02:00:35 pm
/in

I've missed you all.

If this is not incredible, what is? Welcome back!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Witherweaver on February 24, 2017, 04:34:01 pm
I feel like this should either be for 8 or 13 players.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 24, 2017, 05:43:37 pm
I feel like this should either be for 8 or 13 players.

Why?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Witherweaver on February 24, 2017, 05:52:59 pm
I feel like this should either be for 8 or 13 players.

Why?

...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on February 24, 2017, 05:54:50 pm
I feel like this should either be for 8 or 13 players.

Why?

...
.....
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2017, 05:57:42 pm
........
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 24, 2017, 05:57:58 pm
Ah, got it. Sorry, i'm dumb. I'll make it for two separate sets of 1 player next time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 24, 2017, 05:58:13 pm
.............
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on February 24, 2017, 05:59:22 pm
......................
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on February 24, 2017, 06:00:45 pm
This Fibonacci numbers joke is better than previous two combined!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Dylan32 on February 24, 2017, 07:34:06 pm
With flavor names being Fibonacci numbers, there should two 1s, and they can be masons or similar linked roles.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Joseph2302 on February 25, 2017, 04:16:44 am
/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 02, 2017, 03:39:12 pm
this setup is so kickass, though
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on March 02, 2017, 03:47:29 pm
I think I can safely /in now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: pingpongsam on March 02, 2017, 04:07:02 pm
I'll slide this right /in here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Eevee on March 02, 2017, 04:19:52 pm
/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Witherweaver on March 02, 2017, 04:39:20 pm
I guess I can

/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 02, 2017, 04:44:32 pm
Just going to /in real quick
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: ashersky on March 02, 2017, 04:54:07 pm
/in, I suppose
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Dylan32 on March 02, 2017, 05:35:07 pm
/in
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: LaLight on March 02, 2017, 05:37:30 pm
I don't have time at all. Pms in 24 hours
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 02, 2017, 06:24:06 pm
oh shit
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 02, 2017, 06:25:32 pm
quickhammer
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Eevee on March 02, 2017, 08:08:14 pm
I'm really looking forward to this.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 02, 2017, 08:10:40 pm
i think i maybe want to be town
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Eevee on March 02, 2017, 08:14:24 pm
Me too, town pleaaaase!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on March 02, 2017, 08:23:36 pm
I'll be mafia
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 02, 2017, 10:54:09 pm
I'm pretty pumped to tunnel ash. #justlikeoldtimes
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 02, 2017, 10:56:02 pm
Oh and I'll be driving for about 10 hours on 3/5 so you won't see much of me that day.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 03, 2017, 12:07:29 am
Can't commit to posting anything until the 6th. Excited to play with some new (to me) faces.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: gkrieg13 on March 03, 2017, 01:18:17 am
/tag
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: LaLight on March 03, 2017, 03:29:02 am
I am starting sending pms. N0 will last for appr. 24 hours and will end March 04 at 3am FT. Please, /confirm your roles in the QTs.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: LaLight on March 03, 2017, 03:29:35 am
Thread Locked except for /tags
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 03, 2017, 07:50:08 am
/tag -- I totally missed the boat on this one! Oops :-(
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: LaLight on March 04, 2017, 02:59:03 am
I am starting sending pms. N0 will last for appr. 24 hours and will end March 04 at 3am FT. Please, /confirm your roles in the QTs.

Still N0. Haven't got some confirmations
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: LaLight on March 04, 2017, 08:52:09 pm

Learning Fibonacci numbers is easy as 1, 1, 2, 3.

Vote Count 1.1


Not Voting (12): schadd, The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, AndrewisFTTW, Joseph2302, Robz888, pingpongsam, Eevee, Witherweaver, mcmcsalot, ashersky, Dylan32

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 11 at 9pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 04, 2017, 08:55:24 pm
LaLight's town meta is pretty helpful and he hasn't helped clarify any reads yet.

vote: LaLight
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 09:52:36 pm
Vote: idontplaythisgame

Also what are aforementioned Scum's accepted pseudonyms?  So we can lynch easier.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:05:39 pm
probably vote: pps

broccoli
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:07:45 pm
eh actually vote: broccoli
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 04, 2017, 10:10:49 pm
vote: WW

Are you still generally scum every game? Or did that end a couple years ago?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:12:31 pm
he's been town a couple times recently. i dunno how true it was back in the day but i think he's like one of the best bread-and-butter scum players now
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 04, 2017, 10:14:02 pm
WW I think he just called you white bread.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:15:48 pm
eh. in terms of the looking town aspect of scum i think he's the best here, but in the gambits n mislynches part there isn't anything in particular i can remember him for but he's still good


but i'm pretty sure that he's scum less than every time
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:16:11 pm
no he's obv witherwheat bread
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:17:10 pm
what are you like?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 04, 2017, 10:20:10 pm
I like pizza, video games, and pizza.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:21:06 pm
no that's different
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 04, 2017, 10:21:17 pm
30 minutes in and already everyone is lurking.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:22:00 pm
don't change the subject.


do you think broccoli is town?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 04, 2017, 10:26:27 pm
I prefer my coffee black, thanks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:30:32 pm
vote: WW

Are you still generally scum every game? Or did that end a couple years ago?

I'm always town.  Especially now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:31:10 pm
WW I think he just called you white bread.

Awww shit it's on now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:31:34 pm
eh actually vote: broccoli

So broccoli is him?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:32:13 pm
no
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:32:31 pm
I prefer my coffee black, thanks.

As black as midnight on a moonless night.

I've been researching Twin Peaks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:33:54 pm
ok so ww is town


andrew might be town


idp is probably scum but we'll wait a minute
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
Let's lynch someone in the first like three hours.  ADK style
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:35:05 pm
ok vote: a drowned kernel
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:36:16 pm
are you or andrew doublevoters? i claim not doublevoter
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:45:52 pm
are you or andrew doublevoters? i claim not doublevoter

Is thata a thing?  If it is, I may or may not be.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:48:21 pm
that sounds like something a doublevoter would say
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 10:54:28 pm
that sounds like something a doublevoter would say

It may or may not.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 10:58:48 pm
you don't have to talk anymore you're already locktown
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 11:01:03 pm
you don't have to talk anymore you're already locktown

Okay let me know when you need me to lynch somebody
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 11:01:36 pm
Also quickly conftownreading people is scummy
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 11:03:36 pm
that would be true if you weren't obvtown
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 11:05:54 pm
that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 11:09:07 pm
yeah, stop buddying me, it's shaking my unshakeable locktown obvtown conftown mod-confirmed neverlynch hard soul vca meta read on you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 04, 2017, 11:21:22 pm
that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?

Was I one of those three? Because I'm sort of here. A little busy but trying to read nonetheless.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 11:22:21 pm
wowee vote: idontplaythisgame
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 04, 2017, 11:23:58 pm
wowee vote: idontplaythisgame

Thanks. Means a lot to me
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 04, 2017, 11:26:12 pm
obvscum lockscum guilty incriminating result large_brain.meme confscum
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 04, 2017, 11:31:54 pm
that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?

No, I was referring to me, buddyschadd, and Andrew.

Who are your partners?  If you had to lynch one of them, which one would you pick?

Was I one of those three? Because I'm sort of here. A little busy but trying to read nonetheless.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 12:11:29 am
that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?

No, I was referring to me, buddyschadd, and Andrew.

Who are your partners?  If you had to lynch one of them, which one would you pick?

Was I one of those three? Because I'm sort of here. A little busy but trying to read nonetheless.

You and schadd, obviously. I guess we could lynch you?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 05, 2017, 12:12:37 am
So Schadd is scum!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 02:33:46 am
Vote: Wheat bread for being healthier than white bread
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 05, 2017, 02:43:39 am
Hi!!!!!!!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 02:45:30 am
Hi!!!!!!!

That emotion doesn't feel genuine. Vote: mcmc  :P
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 05, 2017, 03:37:15 am
Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 05, 2017, 03:37:29 am
And I'm the SK again
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 05, 2017, 04:21:34 am
I want to make a confusing and possibly bad claim right off the bat.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 05, 2017, 07:24:40 am
I want to make a confusing and possibly bad claim right off the bat.
You wouldn't be the first one.
I already have.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 05, 2017, 07:51:12 am
Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 05, 2017, 09:54:00 am
Lay it on us, ash.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 05, 2017, 10:51:36 am
I may or may not be the UB.

If I am, I suggest scum counterclaim.

If I am not, I suggest the real UB let it ride.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 11:01:33 am
okay remind me to scum rolecop you and then counterclaim you if you are the thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 05, 2017, 11:05:03 am
Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 11:07:15 am
are you a doublevoter?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 11:07:52 am
but i think i know what you're thinking of
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 05, 2017, 12:06:07 pm
Sorry guys, I've been busy. I'll join in on the fun in a few hours!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 05, 2017, 12:06:24 pm
First you fish then you think you know what is in my mind?

Preposterous

Vote: The_Wine_Merchant
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 12:37:43 pm
This game has a decided Chaotic Neutral feel to it so far. Rolling 1d20 sense motive on pps.

Rolled 1d20 : 18, total 18
-2 Wisdom modifier.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 12:38:33 pm
So a 16. Is pps being deceitful DM? uh I mean mod?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 12:52:10 pm
So a 16. Is pps being deceitful DM? uh I mean mod?

Really? No ranks in it?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 01:01:52 pm
So a 16. Is pps being deceitful DM? uh I mean mod?

Really? No ranks in it?

No. I generally prefer to hit first, and figure out if it was a good idea or not second.  As such, my character is really terrible at reading people...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 01:08:21 pm
So a 16. Is pps being deceitful DM? uh I mean mod?

Really? No ranks in it?

No. I generally prefer to hit first, and figure out if it was a good idea or not second.  As such, my character is really terrible at reading people...

What class are you?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 05, 2017, 01:15:22 pm
So a 16. Is pps being deceitful DM? uh I mean mod?

Really? No ranks in it?

No. I generally prefer to hit first, and figure out if it was a good idea or not second.  As such, my character is really terrible at reading people...

What class are you?

Ranger, so by hit first, I meant from distance where I can't get hit back. Lived alone in the wilderness so long I don't recognize social norms.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 05, 2017, 02:27:43 pm
Okay, I feel I understood the meaning of maybe 10% of what's been posted previously here, and even that 10% is somewhat confusing because it's Ash's semi-claim, which is a very interesting but also difficult piece to the puzzle. Glad we have one on the board already, I feel it's a much better start than pure RVS with no substance that can stall for days in worst cases.

It's so fun to be playing with ash again!

As for the claim, I don't know, my natural first reaction is to buy it until evidence to the contrary surfaces, but also be on the lookout for such evidence. There is always just one UB, so if ash is scum, he is basically saying he is willing to trade 1:1 with the backup (at best), which just seems like a terrible deal for scum. UB is definitely a strong role, but it won't have any utility until someone with a PR goes down (knock on wood), and even after he could inherit something completely useless (if the role was 1-shot and the shot is already used up), so it's not like game-changingly strong, or even close to that.

It seems a little suicidal for ash to do this as town but not the UB, as I would assume most people as the real UB would simply counterclaim ash immediately, putting town in a horrible situation for no gain whatsoever (as far as I can tell, anyways). I got to believe ash would realize this, and probably wouldn't  want to proceed with such a plan.

So, as I don't think ash would do this as town if he wasn't the UB, I think if there is another UB out there, they should claim because ash is then likely just scum with a crazy vision, which would seem extremely far-fetched, but ash if anyone is willing to go down for his team if he feels its the best course of action.

But, probably, ash is just the UB, and wanted to get us going with a claim. Which seems fine to me, having a IC is pretty fun, and this comes with potential additional powers if they make it to later in the game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 02:34:05 pm
i am confident in my ability to read ~8 of you. i'm not gonna say which 8
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
I may or may not be the UB.

If I am, I suggest scum counterclaim.

If I am not, I suggest the real UB let it ride.

Eevee, you took that as a claim?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 05, 2017, 02:36:54 pm
From a neutral perspective, I would not treat ash as an IC. 

I'd probably ignore the thing completely.

There are three possibilities with his claim:

--he's the UB.
--he's scum.
--he's Town, but not UB.

Option 2 seems dumb, because what does he gain?  At best, mislynches the UB, which is not a powerful role early.

Option 1 could happen, for IC reasons.  But why do soon?  Could have been better to wait for more interaction.

Option 3?  Seems strange.  Covering a different PR?  Starting conversations? 

Maybe his exact wording matters.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 02:40:38 pm
From a neutral perspective
this clause does not hold up to scrutiny
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 02:41:43 pm
oh, fun fact, ash is one of the 8 people
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 05, 2017, 02:46:35 pm
I may or may not be the UB.

If I am, I suggest scum counterclaim.

If I am not, I suggest the real UB let it ride.

Eevee, you took that as a claim?
Yeah, I took that as a claim. Ash must know that putting that out there, it's at least somewhat likely that the real UB would step forward. And in that case, I think ash would be hurting his fraction either way. Hence, I don't think he would post that unless he was the real UB.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 05, 2017, 02:47:29 pm
I may or may not be scum.  If I'm not, I suggest scum counterclaim.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 05, 2017, 02:49:01 pm
If I'm the real UB and see that posted, I'm worried that I'm going to get mislynched later on if I don't react to the claim at least before nightfall.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 02:51:19 pm
I may or may not be scum.  If I'm not, I suggest scum counterclaim.
what scum PR are you?


vote: eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 03:43:21 pm
If I'm the real UB and see that posted, I'm worried that I'm going to get mislynched later on if I don't react to the claim at least before nightfall.

And that just seems like fishing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 05, 2017, 03:53:11 pm
Yeah, I guess. But I do think it's likely ash is simply the real UB.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 05, 2017, 03:57:38 pm
Yeah, I guess. But I do think it's likely ash is simply the real UB.

Eh. I don't. I think it's a bit early for the UB to either claim or counterclaim. I just don't see the point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 04:04:25 pm
okay if it's eevee and idptg, both of you owe me a coke, which i will throw out because it's bad for you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 05, 2017, 04:15:20 pm
like, if we quicklynched either of you right now and you flipped town i would be like "fuck, i was wrong" not "i should probably not have acted on that impulse"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 05, 2017, 04:17:19 pm
Ash's pseudo-claim seems totally neutral to me. Does not make me think he's scummier, or townier, or more or less likely to be the UB, even.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 06, 2017, 01:09:23 am
Vote Count 1.1

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (2): Joseph2302, schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam

Not Voting (5+1): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 06, 2017, 01:51:12 am
Vote Count 1.1

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (2): Joseph2302, schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam

Not Voting (5+1): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

Oh man. I can see these date/time additions and subtractions leading to some pretty lousy mistakes with deadlines. Be careful people!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 06, 2017, 03:26:04 am
Vote Count 1.1

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (2): Joseph2302, schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam

Not Voting (5+1): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Vote: LaLight
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 06, 2017, 03:26:38 am
Actually, Voote: Wine
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 06, 2017, 07:32:05 am
Hi guys. Just getting back from long vacation.

I am catching up at work for most of today, so tomorrow will be better for catching up on non-work activities.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 06, 2017, 09:10:47 am
Hey everyone, I should be able to catch up throughout the day and post thoughts by tonight.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 06, 2017, 09:11:06 am
Also those time equations are hilarious!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 06, 2017, 09:16:50 am
I'm kind of surprised people aren't taking any positions on ashersky's thing. Less sure I'm right myself with this many others seeing it differently. Ash, was this the reaction you anticipated you'd get?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 06, 2017, 09:22:19 am
I'm kind of surprised people aren't taking any positions on ashersky's thing. Less sure I'm right myself with this many others seeing it differently. Ash, was this the reaction you anticipated you'd get?

I saw it and read some of the surrounding posts, it just seems like a really ash thing to do. The one thing I thought is if ash is town and not the ub he definitely made the ub sweat a little bit because of even bringing it up. This favors scum slightly because they can gauge people's reaction to try and guess who the real ub is. So overall I think slight edge toward that post helping scum but then there's the why would ash want to be in the spotlight if he is scum blah blah blah. So pretty neutral, as I said a very ash thing to do.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 09:26:28 am
I'm kind of surprised people aren't taking any positions on ashersky's thing.
i took a position on it, more or less
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 06, 2017, 09:27:13 am
I'm kind of surprised people aren't taking any positions on ashersky's thing. Less sure I'm right myself with this many others seeing it differently. Ash, was this the reaction you anticipated you'd get?

I saw it and read some of the surrounding posts, it just seems like a really ash thing to do. The one thing I thought is if ash is town and not the ub he definitely made the ub sweat a little bit because of even bringing it up. This favors scum slightly because they can gauge people's reaction to try and guess who the real ub is. So overall I think slight edge toward that post helping scum but then there's the why would ash want to be in the spotlight if he is scum blah blah blah. So pretty neutral, as I said a very ash thing to do.
Yeah, for sure. I just think it's crazy to dismiss it as an ash-thing to do and not try to analyze it. There has to be some information value in the post other than "pure null, can't say anything one way or another" - this was not just a RVS - vote or an off the cuff joke post, there was a clearly a thought process behind making it, and apparently even in the exact wording he chose to use. I think it's up to us to analyze the information and decide which alignments or roles he'd be more or less likely to make that post. I'm very surprised more people aren't interested in trying that, when we have quite little else going at this point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 09:30:42 am
i mean you can do that with any post
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 06, 2017, 09:37:03 am
i mean you can do that with any post
I don't think it's the same, there is much more forethought with certain posts, hence much more information in them. Certainly you don't think a big reread-reads post holds the same amount of information value (for others to analyze) as say a random RVS one liner?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 09:41:44 am
i don't see reason to believe either has a larger inherent information value, no
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 06, 2017, 10:08:42 am
Robz pretty well stated my position on the ashersky thing quite succinctly.

I may or may not be the all-powerful creator of the universe.
I'd love to hear scum counterclaim this but if the actual all-powerful creator of the universe is here I'd like for him to remain silent.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 06, 2017, 10:14:22 am
I think that statement is inherently different, as there is no possibility of an actual all-powerful creator of the universe in the game counterclaiming you and really screwing town up big time.

So I guess our fundamental difference is that you guys wouldn't counterclaim him as the real UB because you think he might post that as some other town role just as well.

I'm certainly less sure about reading it correctly than I was upon first seeing the claim, maybe it wasn't such a big deal then.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 06, 2017, 10:36:55 am
I think that statement is inherently different, as there is no possibility of an actual all-powerful creator of the universe in the game counterclaiming you and really screwing town up big time.

So I guess our fundamental difference is that you guys wouldn't counterclaim him as the real UB because you think he might post that as some other town role just as well.

I'm certainly less sure about reading it correctly than I was upon first seeing the claim, maybe it wasn't such a big deal then.

You dare question the ability of the all-powerful creator of the universe? Take it to RSP.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 06, 2017, 10:37:46 am
It'd be cool if PPS got modkilled.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 06, 2017, 10:59:31 am
It'd be cool if PPS got modkilled.

For what, exactly?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 06, 2017, 11:04:47 am
It'd be cool if PPS got modkilled.

For what, exactly?

Blasphemy!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 06, 2017, 11:08:27 am
Oh, gotcha. I thought you were serious that I should be summarily removed from the game. No, you're right, that would be hilarious.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 06, 2017, 11:14:12 am
Ok I'm here now yay!

So I have to agree with Robz's assessment here, it's pretty damn null. On the other hand, I'd be legitimately curious if anyone can cite an instance in which ash made a similar baffling post that actually had consequence later in game. Not that it would help us determine what the hell he's talking about.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 06, 2017, 01:11:10 pm
Null is the right answer.  I like the overall responses.

No counterclaim is good.  Scum learns nothing, can't even safely assume I'm anything.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 06, 2017, 01:30:48 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 06, 2017, 03:58:18 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.
I tentatively agree with this.
Voye: ash
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 06, 2017, 03:58:38 pm
Request: Vote Count because counting is hard
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 06, 2017, 04:07:03 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.

What exactly did ash "get" out of this?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 06, 2017, 04:24:48 pm
 Vote Count 1.2

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (1): schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
ashersky (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

Not Voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

I counted Joseph’s #156 vote and will count such votes.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 06, 2017, 04:30:57 pm
Vote Count 1.2

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (1): schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
ashersky (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

Not Voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

I counted Joseph’s #156 vote and will count such votes.

bpye: Joseph

Does that count?  One key off on the keyboard could count as a typo, right?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 06, 2017, 04:32:47 pm
Vote Count 1.2

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (1): schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
ashersky (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

Not Voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

I counted Joseph’s #156 vote and will count such votes.

bpye: Joseph

Does that count?  One key off on the keyboard could count as a typo, right?

One key off on the keyboard in one letter of the whole vote will count.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 06, 2017, 04:33:15 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.

What exactly did ash "get" out of this?

A few things, seems to be the theory.  I supposedly now know who the real UB is, somehow.  I supposedly put pressure on the real UB, which of course helps scum, somehow.

Also, its resulted in voyes on me.  Early voyes can lead to less suspicion later on, when voyes are more dangerous.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 06, 2017, 04:33:47 pm
it's*
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 06, 2017, 04:35:03 pm
unbpye

I have a few reads now, Joseph isn't one of them.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 06, 2017, 04:35:13 pm
O siggest we a;; tu[e everutjomg wotj pme leu pff )pm pme jamd_ pf tje leubpard/
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 04:38:02 pm
this is productive
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 04:38:48 pm
everybody is softclaiming qwerty
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 06, 2017, 04:39:52 pm
Ash must be using the GUI buttons to embolden his bpye's, or he's lying to us about his finger placement.

Latter case is obviously a scum move.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 06, 2017, 04:40:28 pm
everybody is softclaiming qwerty

Lynch all dvoraks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 04:46:29 pm
do we lynch azerty users?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 06, 2017, 04:47:30 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.

What exactly did ash "get" out of this?

Scum!ash now has everyone's reaction to his post and tonight the scum team can alanyze all those reactions to see who looks most like the real ub in how they reacted. I don't think it's smart to discuss how the ub would react to this post but as for sure thinks about the things he does. He could have discussed this with the scumteam night 0 and they would all be on alert with how to react and what in general they are looking for.

Ppe 6: I see ash has responded, it's silly to insinuate he knows who the real ub is though that's also glossing over the fact that he does have everyone's reaction to his post which could be used to try and figure out who the ub is. To his second point, it is ust a fact that he did force the ub to acknowledge his post about the ub, unless he is the ub.

Ppe 4: don't want to be the fun governor but please stop.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 06, 2017, 04:56:01 pm
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.

What exactly did ash "get" out of this?

Scum!ash now has everyone's reaction to his post and tonight the scum team can alanyze all those reactions to see who looks most like the real ub in how they reacted. I don't think it's smart to discuss how the ub would react to this post but as for sure thinks about the things he does. He could have discussed this with the scumteam night 0 and they would all be on alert with how to react and what in general they are looking for.

Ppe 6: I see ash has responded, it's silly to insinuate he knows who the real ub is though that's also glossing over the fact that he does have everyone's reaction to his post which could be used to try and figure out who the ub is. To his second point, it is ust a fact that he did force the ub to acknowledge his post about the ub, unless he is the ub.

Ppe 4: don't want to be the fun governor but please stop.

Ok but reactions to various posts don't judt help scum, we need discussion to make a decent lynch. And besides, not everyone responded to ash's UB thing. Still pretty null for me.

Just realized I'm still voting WW for no good reason.

vote: schadd

For a good reason.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 06, 2017, 04:57:49 pm
i would ask what you think a ub-indicative reaction looks like but that's probably not a good idea
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 06, 2017, 05:40:19 pm
Vote Count 1.2

IDon’tPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): AndrewisFTTW
mcmcsalot (1): Dylan32
Eevee (1): schadd
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
ashersky (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302

Not Voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, Eevee, ashersky,

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

I counted Joseph’s #156 vote and will count such votes.

bpye: Joseph

Does that count?  One key off on the keyboard could count as a typo, right?

One key off on the keyboard in one letter of the whole vote will count.
Bote: LaLight
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 06, 2017, 11:04:43 pm
So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 07, 2017, 06:55:46 am
So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone.
Well apart from ash, no-one has really done anything noteworthy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 07, 2017, 06:56:32 am
Vote: Eevee

Maybe if I start voting for people, it'll start a wagon.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 07:32:11 am
vote: ashersky

I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question. His most recent post feel like he's sweeping the situation under the rug by saying we are right to not take anything from the post and it's good no one counterclaimed. I feel like ashersky got the most out of what what just went down and I dislike one player gaining information at the potential outing of a town power role.

Put simply scum!ashersky gets more out of this than town!ashersky and his recent post seems like he's happy no one took the post too harshly and tried to guess at his alignment based on the post.

This is probably right but ash is ash. I don't think he's more likely to do this as scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 07:41:20 am
Prod: The Wine Merchant
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 07, 2017, 07:43:55 am
Prod: The Wine Merchant

Sent.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 09:01:44 am
Vote: Eevee

Maybe if I start voting for people, it'll start a wagon.
This is a great idea.

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 11:22:58 am
andrew, have you read any recent games? feel free to decline to answer


people that played with him back when, how easy is andrew to read? also pps, incidentally
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 11:29:14 am
I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 11:39:53 am
I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
Agree with this, but also not the easiest. Kind of middle of the road? My recollection of Andrew was that he doesn't have the splashiest play style, that he would usually be making reasonable arguments and not doing anything too wild.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 11:42:53 am
I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
i think that in general it would serve you to describe things less lamely
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 07, 2017, 11:55:57 am
Yeah I skimmed a couple games before we started to remind myself how this works and the terminology and all that, not any recent game though so there are a lot of people here I have no idea about. And that in part is making it difficult for me to have a solid read on anyone but I think part of it is it's D1 and it seems like this game is moving a little slow.

So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

In terms of schadd I'll take your word for it for now, though I don't really have a scum read on him anyway.

unvote

But why is it unlikely that ash is scum? Unless you're just referring to the odds of rolling scum, which isn't really an argument to not have a scum read on someone.


I think that's pretty par for the course for Robz, at least D1.
I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
i think that in general it would serve you to describe things less lamely
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 07, 2017, 11:58:05 am
Not sure why it cut off the last thing I said but in response to this:

I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
i think that in general it would serve you to describe things less lamely

I said I think it's pretty par for the course for Robz, at least on D1. If he was making long posts analyzing every word I'd find that a little scummier.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 11:59:34 am
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:09:35 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:13:48 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?

Oh...you meant idptg...it was a joke...CAN WE STOP WITH THE JOKES PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 12:17:37 pm
The more I think about it, the scummier ash seems. I think it's different than some of the other "may or may not" posts in that it's a semi-open set-up and UB is the only role guaranteed to be in the game. Sure, there's a roll where it isn't, but statistically that's unlikely.

There isn't much to go on so I'm not considering this much of a read but I think it's worth keeping in mind.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:17:54 pm
Not sure why it cut off the last thing I said but in response to this:

I would say he's not the hardest person to read.
i think that in general it would serve you to describe things less lamely

I said I think it's pretty par for the course for Robz, at least on D1. If he was making long posts analyzing every word I'd find that a little scummier.

This is interesting, I don't like people putting others into boxes early on like this. I want robz to analyze every word of a post.

Robz give me your breakdown and opinions on dylan so far this game!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 12:24:10 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?

Oh...you meant idptg...it was a joke...CAN WE STOP WITH THE JOKES PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE

Why do you think this is a joke?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:33:54 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?

Oh...you meant idptg...it was a joke...CAN WE STOP WITH THE JOKES PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE

Why do you think this is a joke?

"That one guy that doesn't play this game" was a confusing phrase. I took it as actually describing someone who hasn't been playing the game and then was confused by what you meant and then finally realized you meant idptg as that sort of is his name. It's just unnecessarily confusing for the purposes of being clever which bothers me. I know I'm a downer but I feel like some people care more about being clever and funny than clear and understandable.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 12:38:00 pm
His name is idon'tplaythisgame... it seemed pretty clear to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 12:41:02 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?

Oh...you meant idptg...it was a joke...CAN WE STOP WITH THE JOKES PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE

I also didn't get it. I also hate humor.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 07, 2017, 12:44:16 pm
His name is idon'tplaythisgame... it seemed pretty clear to me.

I think what mcmc is saying is you forgot to explain your joke. Clearly you forgot one of the rules of posting on f.ds.

But seriously though, I'm with mcmc on less jokes and more scum hunting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 07, 2017, 12:45:52 pm
I thought he meant we should lynch a specific lurker.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 12:48:27 pm
I'm not going to condition my posting style or the manner in which I play the game on the expectations of people here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 12:48:45 pm
I thought he meant we should lynch a specific lurker.

I did, in fact.  The one for which I am voting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 12:48:55 pm
I thought he meant we should lynch a specific lurker.

Me too, but I love humor, it always gets me in trouble in these games.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:53:32 pm
Does anyone want to lynch that one guy that doesn't play this game?  He also seems to be not playing this game a whole lot.
who's that?

Oh...you meant idptg...it was a joke...CAN WE STOP WITH THE JOKES PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE

I also didn't get it. I also hate humor.

I'm a fan of humor I think it's just not appropriate for this game. The issue is this game is played 100% with people's words, every post you make is like a turn and in this game you just happen to be able to take as many turns as you want. The goal is using your turns to figure out who has been assigned to the town team and who has been assigned to the scum team. So when you use a turn and instead of being precisely clear you are comical in any way, it detracts from the validity of your turn and makes me think you don't care as much about using your turn to win.

Obviously this is a slight over exaggeration of the situation and how I feel about you specifically but it is how I feel about humor and it's place in the game of mafia as a whole.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:55:15 pm
I'm not going to condition my posting style or the manner in which I play the game on the expectations of people here.

But you signed up for a game where the way people win is through using expectations of how one would play so thanks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:57:26 pm
I thought he meant we should lynch a specific lurker.

I did, in fact.  The one for which I am voting.

Yes I would rather not go down a dark hole that takes up any more time discussing humor and it's place. My thoughts are known.

Let's instead ask why are you voting for idp, just because he's lurking? It's very early on fkr that and TWM is lurking more.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 12:57:39 pm
LAH

Lynch All Humor.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 12:58:23 pm
Also don't you dodge my questions by agreeing with me about humor robz. I still want your breakdown of Dylan's play so far.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 12:58:51 pm
I'm not going to condition my posting style or the manner in which I play the game on the expectations of people here.

But you signed up for a game where the way people win is through using expectations of how one would play so thanks.

Well, I should rephrase to say, where it doesn't benefit me.  Or "condition to those expectations for their own sake".  Meaning that people that don't like how I play will have to deal with it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 12:59:04 pm
I had a feeling he was talking about me. But then again, I'm more likely to spot jokes about my username considering I hear them more often than the rest of you.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 12:59:42 pm
Also don't you dodge my questions by agreeing with me about humor robz. I still want your breakdown of Dylan's play so far.

I honestly have not paid even close to enough attention so far to give you a break down of Dylan's play. Have I mentioned I bought a Nintendo Switch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 01:00:45 pm
Also don't you dodge my questions by agreeing with me about humor robz. I still want your breakdown of Dylan's play so far.

I honestly have not paid even close to enough attention so far to give you a break down of Dylan's play. Have I mentioned I bought a Nintendo Switch?

You could go read his posts.  I think it would be an under-five-minute venture.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 01:13:57 pm
Reread IDPTG, he didn't seem overly scummy to me. I doubt he'd be the biggest lurker, and the posts actually seem pretty full of content for their size and quantity, he's been commenting on multiple issues and we really haven't had much happening yet.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 01:17:26 pm
Reread IDPTG, he didn't seem overly scummy to me. I doubt he'd be the biggest lurker, and the posts actually seem pretty full of content for their size and quantity, he's been commenting on multiple issues and we really haven't had much happening yet.

I have trouble finding things to talk about. My plan was to wait until after NM10 to play normal games, but NM10 doesn't seem to be happening.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 01:22:02 pm
Dylan was indeed a very fast reread. As far as I can tell, of his 11 posts, only this has been relevant to the game:

So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

which looks like a fine post, although the expressed opinions seem to be on the safer side. Not that I have any scathingly hot takes myself, it is still early. We only have 4 days until the deadline though, so it would be good to get something happening soon. Is it just me or have we gone to the day of the deadline with almost no serious wagons pretty often in the near history, especially day 1?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:28:07 pm
Reread IDPTG, he didn't seem overly scummy to me. I doubt he'd be the biggest lurker, and the posts actually seem pretty full of content for their size and quantity, he's been commenting on multiple issues and we really haven't had much happening yet.

This is what I thought whic is why I wanted ww to answer my question of why he is voting for idp.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:30:54 pm
Dylan was indeed a very fast reread. As far as I can tell, of his 11 posts, only this has been relevant to the game:

So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

which looks like a fine post, although the expressed opinions seem to be on the safer side. Not that I have any scathingly hot takes myself, it is still early. We only have 4 days until the deadline though, so it would be good to get something happening soon. Is it just me or have we gone to the day of the deadline with almost no serious wagons pretty often in the near history, especially day 1?

Hey eevee wanna let the people I ask questions answer them and then react to those answers with your own instead of jumping the gun...that being said I agree with your analysis that Dylan's post was very safe.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 01:32:05 pm
It's worrisome to me that I have no real town-reads, apart from still thinking ash is probably town.

If I were to chart the probabilities of each of you being town/scum, the 2nd highest town read would be so close to the highest scum read, it's very scary, especially given how close we are to the deadline. Probably a byproduct of the low amount of concentrated voting we've had this far.

I hate this phase of a mafia game, where you have no reads, but it's hard for you to contribute anything because the discussion is mostly jokes or otherwise not very relevant to ones alignment. I know my posts are much the same way I feel the game needs a catalysts of some sort, and I think we'd do better if the catalyst was something other than "omg, the deadline is in 12 hours, we all go to vote for someone". I think scum thrives in those scrambles, because everyone is so unsure of their opinions, they are more easily influenced by what others think, giving scum room to be more successful with their collusion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 01:33:04 pm
Dylan was indeed a very fast reread. As far as I can tell, of his 11 posts, only this has been relevant to the game:

So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

which looks like a fine post, although the expressed opinions seem to be on the safer side. Not that I have any scathingly hot takes myself, it is still early. We only have 4 days until the deadline though, so it would be good to get something happening soon. Is it just me or have we gone to the day of the deadline with almost no serious wagons pretty often in the near history, especially day 1?

Hey eevee wanna let the people I ask questions answer them and then react to those answers with your own instead of jumping the gun...that being said I agree with your analysis that Dylan's post was very safe.
Sorry, I didn't realize it was targeted with a purpose, my bad.

I think mcmc is actually my 2nd highest townread, for providing the highest quality of analysis.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 01:34:51 pm
i would like to lynch eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:35:31 pm
Yea eevee I think your worrying is valid and townie but also non-helpful. Just start interrogating people and then following up with an analysis of their answers and a reasoning for your interrogation, even if that reason is I wanted that player to post something.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:37:09 pm
i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 01:40:48 pm
Okay.

First, voting for mod very first post struck me as.. I don't know... too RVS-y.  Maybe like he felt he needed to post something and it seemed novel.  Not a significant feeling by any means.  But enough to pressure.

LaLight's town meta is pretty helpful and he hasn't helped clarify any reads yet.

vote: LaLight

This one felt a little bit guarded, like he starting to feel pressure (I'd been pushing a little bit and schadd voted for him) and didn't really know how to react.  But felt he had to react.  So kind of forced a pseudojoke:

that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?

No, I was referring to me, buddyschadd, and Andrew.

Who are your partners?  If you had to lynch one of them, which one would you pick?

Was I one of those three? Because I'm sort of here. A little busy but trying to read nonetheless.

You and schadd, obviously. I guess we could lynch you?

He really hasn't said much else.  This:

The more I think about it, the scummier ash seems. I think it's different than some of the other "may or may not" posts in that it's a semi-open set-up and UB is the only role guaranteed to be in the game. Sure, there's a roll where it isn't, but statistically that's unlikely.

There isn't much to go on so I'm not considering this much of a read but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

feels particularly careful and hedgy.  Note that he doesn't take an "Ash could be scum" type stance until it seems like something that could have support.  (McMc and Joseph have voted for Ash.)  But he doesn't actually vote.  My guess would be if we let this ride out (which I'm not doing, explaining all of this) and there was further impression that voting for Ash was "okay", he would get on the wagon.

I prefer to not explain these things and let them play further (I'm going off little here, more evidence is more better), but you wanted content and not jokes and so there you have it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 01:41:19 pm

i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 01:42:01 pm
ww sees pretty much exactly what i saw in idptg
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 01:42:43 pm
ww sees pretty much exactly what i saw in idptg
or, rather, what ww sees in idptg is exactly what i see
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:44:34 pm
Prod: The Wine Merchant

Woah your the one that prodded TWM. Interesting you have said nothin but your agreement with robz about ash's post. Pretty scummy, it seems like you were mulling over who to make a post about and realized TWM had been gone so you then posted a prod in place of content.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:45:44 pm

i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time

That's sad because I find you towny but bad at reading people. So I would like to know if this is a bad read or a scummy one, or an enlightening reason that changes my opinion on eevee.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:49:08 pm
In response to wotherweaver, a lot of how you feel about idp hinges upon thinking his response to ash is hedge and that I'd let play out perhaps idp would vote ash. I think ash is actually quite scummy for how he reacted to people reacting to his post so I think it would be normal for town!idp to eventually vote ash. You are taking the stance that A ash is town and B idp is scummy for being hedgy, I really dislike that.

vote: witherweaver

Pps had a much worse response in my opinion be just saying yea it meant nothing and then posting zero other content.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 01:49:28 pm
bad at reading people.
in this game or in general?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:51:18 pm
Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 01:53:38 pm
In response to wotherweaver, a lot of how you feel about idp hinges upon thinking his response to ash is hedge and that I'd let play out perhaps idp would vote ash. I think ash is actually quite scummy for how he reacted to people reacting to his post so I think it would be normal for town!idp to eventually vote ash. You are taking the stance that A ash is town and B idp is scummy for being hedgy, I really dislike that.

vote: witherweaver

Pps had a much worse response in my opinion be just saying yea it meant nothing and then posting zero other content.

For what it's worth, Ash is on the slight-town side of null.  (I think he's slightly more likely to do this claim thing as town than as scum.)  It's a little bit circularly reinforced by me thinking idptg is scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 01:54:07 pm
bad at reading people.
in this game or in general?

Small sample size from the mafia 94 where you were wrong about pushing dylan d1 and then only really started pushing me because I was pushing you. That and my thought so far in this game compared to yours. Not hating just my slight opinion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 01:54:28 pm
That's the weirdest early game want-to-lynch list I've ever seen.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 01:57:05 pm
Okay.

First, voting for mod very first post struck me as.. I don't know... too RVS-y.  Maybe like he felt he needed to post something and it seemed novel.  Not a significant feeling by any means.  But enough to pressure.

LaLight's town meta is pretty helpful and he hasn't helped clarify any reads yet.

vote: LaLight

This one felt a little bit guarded, like he starting to feel pressure (I'd been pushing a little bit and schadd voted for him) and didn't really know how to react.  But felt he had to react.  So kind of forced a pseudojoke:

that would be true if you weren't obvtown

Buddying is scummy!

Is there anyone else in this game or is it just us three?

No, I was referring to me, buddyschadd, and Andrew.

Who are your partners?  If you had to lynch one of them, which one would you pick?

Was I one of those three? Because I'm sort of here. A little busy but trying to read nonetheless.

You and schadd, obviously. I guess we could lynch you?

He really hasn't said much else.  This:

The more I think about it, the scummier ash seems. I think it's different than some of the other "may or may not" posts in that it's a semi-open set-up and UB is the only role guaranteed to be in the game. Sure, there's a roll where it isn't, but statistically that's unlikely.

There isn't much to go on so I'm not considering this much of a read but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

feels particularly careful and hedgy.  Note that he doesn't take an "Ash could be scum" type stance until it seems like something that could have support.  (McMc and Joseph have voted for Ash.)  But he doesn't actually vote.  My guess would be if we let this ride out (which I'm not doing, explaining all of this) and there was further impression that voting for Ash was "okay", he would get on the wagon.

I prefer to not explain these things and let them play further (I'm going off little here, more evidence is more better), but you wanted content and not jokes and so there you have it.

I'm on my phone so please excuse the lack of formatting.

Voting for the mod is hardly "novel". It's been done and I started because gkrieg voting you at the beginning of every game and it struck me as amusing. LaLalight has been in every game I've played as either a mod or player. My crowning achievement is getting mod!LaLight onto a vote count.

Spot on. I've never understood why people post read lists with themself as town or feel the need to remind everyone that they're town. Your question seemed the same.

Hedgy and careful pretty much defines my early reads. I don't get more concrete until I feel more strongly about something. The delayed stance is the result of my thinking about it more. Whether you believe that is up to you. As for not voting, I don't vote much.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 02:01:20 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 02:03:34 pm
bad at reading people.
in this game or in general?

Small sample size from the mafia 94 where you were wrong about pushing dylan d1 and then only really started pushing me because I was pushing you. That and my thought so far in this game compared to yours. Not hating just my slight opinion.
sure. i get false positives a lot. i did only start pushing you when you pushed me but there was other stuff.


to boost my ego i would ask that you look at m92 (i was right about gkrieg d1)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:03:47 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.

Never happens to me as scum, so you should go ahead and conftown me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 02:05:22 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.

Never happens to me as scum, so you should go ahead and conftown me.
Funny, after hitting post I immediately wanted to add "and since WW is so known for making it to LYLO as scum, does this mean he must be town?"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:06:29 pm
Oh hey, this is one of those setups where the UB can get converted.  Ash's post could be read as assuming it exists.  I don't think Ash is a kind of player to overlook this. 

I'm not sure what the implications of that are.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (PMs in an hour. N0)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 02:06:43 pm
Voting for the mod is hardly "novel". It's been done and I started because gkrieg voting you at the beginning of every game and it struck me as amusing. LaLalight has been in every game I've played as either a mod or player. My crowning achievement is getting mod!LaLight onto a vote count.
it's not novel, but it's silly and useless. RVS can look towny if you have some sort of intention with it, or demonstrate an interest in reading/interacting with some particular person (which scum often does not at the beginning of the day)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:07:25 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.

Never happens to me as scum, so you should go ahead and conftown me.
Funny, after hitting post I immediately wanted to add "and since WW is so known for making it to LYLO as scum, does this mean he must be town?"

I'm known for making it to LyLo as town, not scum.  I don't think I've ever been in LyLo as scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 02:10:25 pm
I don't think I've ever been in LyLo as scum.
mylo in m90 and in rmm40 (more or less) that i can think of
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 02:14:47 pm
Oh hey, this is one of those setups where the UB can get converted.  Ash's post could be read as assuming it exists.  I don't think Ash is a kind of player to overlook this. 

I'm not sure what the implications of that are.

I brought this up earlier. It's statistically unlikely and even if the UB got converted, the UB wouldn't know and be able to counterclaim ash. It's perfectly safe to assume one exists and I don't think assuming one exists means anything.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 07, 2017, 02:15:54 pm
Oh hey, this is one of those setups where the UB can get converted.  Ash's post could be read as assuming it exists.  I don't think Ash is a kind of player to overlook this. 

I'm not sure what the implications of that are.

I brought this up earlier. It's statistically unlikely and even if the UB got converted, the UB wouldn't know and be able to counterclaim ash. It's perfectly safe to assume one exists and I don't think assuming one exists means anything.
So we learnt nothing basically....
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 02:16:52 pm
What does converting the UB mean?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 07, 2017, 02:17:05 pm
This is going to sound weird but as much as I agree with mcmc about WW and disagree with WW about his reads on IDPTG, I actually find mcmc the scummier of the two. The interaction in past two pages seems like mcmc trying really hard to create a case not really based on much. It looks like to me like WW felt pressured to defend a vote that wasn't really all that serious (correct me if I'm wrong) and this:

I prefer to not explain these things and let them play further (I'm going off little here, more evidence is more better), but you wanted content and not jokes and so there you have it.

is agreeable.

HOWEVER, I don't understand why WW felt compelled to defend himself at all, especially after this:

I'm not going to condition my posting style or the manner in which I play the game on the expectations of people here.

and this:

I'm not going to condition my posting style or the manner in which I play the game on the expectations of people here.

But you signed up for a game where the way people win is through using expectations of how one would play so thanks.

Well, I should rephrase to say, where it doesn't benefit me.  Or "condition to those expectations for their own sake".  Meaning that people that don't like how I play will have to deal with it.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they were both scum trying to pass this off as a towny interaction later in the game, but I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole right now. For now I think I will

vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 07, 2017, 02:19:24 pm
Sorry guys. I still haven't read more than 10 posts yet. I didn't anticipate work being so crazy when I got back. I'll get to this when I get to it. I have already PMed LA and they are ok with me not posting a lot for a bit. I offered to let them replace me, but they declined unless this carried over for a prolonged period of time.

So I'll be back and posting soon. Again, my apologies.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:23:40 pm
Well McMc specifically asked why I was voting for him; since it's more than an RVS vote I thought it might be good to explain.  I did realize I kind of went back on my just-taken "deal with it" stance as I was typing it up.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:24:13 pm
What does converting the UB mean?

One V roll means UB is converted to restless Spirit. (Like the Mason scenario in the Ahser9++ version.)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 02:26:46 pm
Oh hey, this is one of those setups where the UB can get converted.  Ash's post could be read as assuming it exists.  I don't think Ash is a kind of player to overlook this. 

I'm not sure what the implications of that are.

I brought this up earlier. It's statistically unlikely and even if the UB got converted, the UB wouldn't know and be able to counterclaim ash. It's perfectly safe to assume one exists and I don't think assuming one exists means anything.

There are possibilities, like Ash may think he could glean information based on reactions.  A Restless Spirit would view the claim differently than others.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 07, 2017, 02:51:11 pm
Similarities to Squid mcmc abound, btw.  And that reads list was whack.  I think he's doing the "big forceful presence early for towncred so when I inevitably slip into my normal scumlurkmcmc I can slide by as usual" thing he loves as scum.

vote: mcmc is good here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 02:53:19 pm
Similarities to Squid mcmc abound, btw.  And that reads list was whack.  I think he's doing the "big forceful presence early for towncred so when I inevitably slip into my normal scumlurkmcmc I can slide by as usual" thing he loves as scum.

vote: mcmc is good here.

Also noticed this. Vote: Mcmcsalot

We won't get fooled again
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 07, 2017, 02:56:14 pm
Vote Count 1.3

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, Robz888
Eevee (2): schadd, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): Eevee

Not Voting (2): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 03:00:09 pm
i see where people are coming from with mcmc, as the guy that got the business end of the commanding early game presence, but he seems more like a person this game
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 03:04:36 pm
Yea I'm pretty happy going back to vote:ash

I love that I am getting votes for being "a big forceful presence early for town" and for someone agreeing with me but thinking I'm "trying really hard to make a case not based on much".

This comes down to scum!mcmc just won two games and he was an active presence in both those games so I'm scared everything mcmc is doing just looks pro town and is really a scum ploy.

You can think that if you want but both those games started with me not engaging everyone early on but rather tunneling into one or two actions that I considered "anti-town" and dragging the otherwise quite town into a single discussion for the whole day, limiting interactions. Today I vocalized concern with jokes but moved past that in favor of asking ww a game related question which provided us with discussion as well as prompted question toward the other players and tried to stimulate as many reads as I can.

Also as much as my reads list has been called "whack" I think people are trying to say my reads list is strange compared to how games and reads usually develop, which I think means my reads are based more on actually current game related things and not people's  overall helpful/unhelpful meta.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 03:11:51 pm
Similarities to Squid mcmc abound, btw.  And that reads list was whack.  I think he's doing the "big forceful presence early for towncred so when I inevitably slip into my normal scumlurkmcmc I can slide by as usual" thing he loves as scum.

vote: mcmc is good here.

Also noticed this. Vote: Mcmcsalot

We won't get fooled again

So ash is saying I am similar to squid girl and you agree, but in squid girl I believe you said I looked very similar to town!mcmc in literature mafia. Maybe mcmc is just good at being scum and knows how to catch town mistakes and push semi legitimate cases making d1 mcmc really hard to read. Maybe you can't be lazy and go "oh this person playing like they normally do lets lynch him".

Be better people
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 07, 2017, 03:16:44 pm
I didn't follow squid, but I think mcmc is looking towny here. Putting in a lot of effort day 1 for being scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 07, 2017, 03:23:20 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

Also, nice OMGUS reaction there.

Also, way to be extremely self-aware of your scum play -- so much do that you had plenty of counter examples preloaded in the chamber to fire as soon as someone pointed it out.

This is scum!mcmc simultaneously happy to have rolled scum again while needing to shrug off his recent tells -- and struggling to do so.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 07, 2017, 03:38:27 pm
So I just went through and caught up on the last 4 pages, and got towards the end as the mcmc wagon started forming and was thinking, "Yeah I like this wagon." Then I hit the vote count and realized my vote was leftover there from RVS. So that is where my vote came from, but I'm leaving it there intentionally now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 07, 2017, 03:40:06 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.

Never happens to me as scum, so you should go ahead and conftown me.
Funny, after hitting post I immediately wanted to add "and since WW is so known for making it to LYLO as scum, does this mean he must be town?"

I'm known for making it to LyLo as town, not scum.  I don't think I've ever been in LyLo as scum.

Wasn't stranger things to LyLo if it hadn't been mod ended? and you were scum there.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 07, 2017, 03:47:26 pm
Yea I'm pretty happy going back to vote:ash

I love that I am getting votes for being "a big forceful presence early for town" and for someone agreeing with me but thinking I'm "trying really hard to make a case not based on much".

This comes down to scum!mcmc just won two games and he was an active presence in both those games so I'm scared everything mcmc is doing just looks pro town and is really a scum ploy.

You can think that if you want but both those games started with me not engaging everyone early on but rather tunneling into one or two actions that I considered "anti-town" and dragging the otherwise quite town into a single discussion for the whole day, limiting interactions. Today I vocalized concern with jokes but moved past that in favor of asking ww a game related question which provided us with discussion as well as prompted question toward the other players and tried to stimulate as many reads as I can.

Also as much as my reads list has been called "whack" I think people are trying to say my reads list is strange compared to how games and reads usually develop, which I think means my reads are based more on actually current game related things and not people's  overall helpful/unhelpful meta.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the sort-of in depth self-aware analysis here.  It does make it seem mentally rehearsed.

For the reads list comment: I don't think there was actually that much in this game for you to have a solid read list like that this early without relying on meta to some degree.  Sure you could probably pick individual quotes from random people, think about it and decide yeah I think this post is scummy, but without the bigger context that develops later in the game, you're probably going to get it wrong more often than right. It's pretty bad to just make up your mind on half the players in the game halfway through D1 unless you have pretty darn good reasons for it, and even that doesn't always work out well. Isn't that right schadd?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 03:50:33 pm
Oh, PPS is indeed quite uncharacteristically low on content right now.

I feel WW generally tend to live long and fulfilling lives in all the games he plays - it's weird to see him getting day 1 suspicion.

Never happens to me as scum, so you should go ahead and conftown me.
Funny, after hitting post I immediately wanted to add "and since WW is so known for making it to LYLO as scum, does this mean he must be town?"

I'm known for making it to LyLo as town, not scum.  I don't think I've ever been in LyLo as scum.

Wasn't stranger things to LyLo if it hadn't been mod ended? and you were scum there.

Maybe after the Upside Down attack.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 05:19:29 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

Also, nice OMGUS reaction there.

Also, way to be extremely self-aware of your scum play -- so much do that you had plenty of counter examples preloaded in the chamber to fire as soon as someone pointed it out.

This is scum!mcmc simultaneously happy to have rolled scum again while needing to shrug off his recent tells -- and struggling to do so.

Haha mcmc loves being scum...that's  the line I use on robz whenever I want people to start suspecting him for simply playing the game. I actually don't necessarily like playing scum more than town as scum I just get to talk to my teammates so there more interaction.

Yep it's omgus, but it's omgus against a player I already thought was scummy so not quite the same thing.

Being aware of my scum play doesn't make me scummy, it makes me good. And if you want to vote me because your scared I'm scum and will win go ahead but I also caught eevee d1 in the game where I was town recently. Not trying to brag but I'm also a scary town player.

I'm not struggling to shrug off my recent tells, I haven't tunneled and I haven't called people out for being anti town and used that to pivot into a lynch, I've been engaging and inquisitive.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 05:28:39 pm
@dylans comment:

I understand not liking the self aware analysis and can see how it feels rehearsed and that because it is. To emulate my town meta as scum I have to have a good grasp of how I think people view me as town and what I can slightly change about the playstyle to fit my goals for each scum game. So I know how I think people can catch me when I'm scum so when ash says mcmc is acting like scum!mcmc from a recent game I can very quickly and easily explain some differneces.

As for there being too little stuff gone on to make a reads list taking out so many people I just disagree. I actually noticed in my scum games recently that townies have actually named the scum team more often then not when doing simple process of elimination reads and taking out people they had slight town reads on.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 09:26:43 pm
So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on. Voting had no effect on TWM, he was notably absent, game stalling, so prodded him.

But I must be the bad guy because hey, look, PPS isn't doing all that stuff he usually does to catalyse a game. Never mind that we're he scum he would definitely be pushing the game much like Vote: mcmc is.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 09:27:24 pm
Stupid mobile autocorrect on were.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 09:28:30 pm
Btw, I love being scum and unless it's RMM I am pretty meh on being town.

So, I am clearly town this game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 09:39:39 pm
So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on.
ah, cool. but not a fan, sort of like how if you used the roll command to pick somebody would be scummy


the rest is noted.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 09:55:51 pm
So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on.
ah, cool. but not a fan, sort of like how if you used the roll command to pick somebody would be scummy


the rest is noted.

Pretty sure the only times I've done that I was town too, so...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 09:58:44 pm
well don't do it anymore 3:<
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 10:24:09 pm
Why are you voting eevee? I thought it was just to see if we could get something going. We got something better over here on mcmc, you should join us.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 07, 2017, 10:27:05 pm
Is eevee dumb enough to defend his partner? Does scum!eevee defend a wagon deep townie?

Eevee doesn't look like scum today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 07, 2017, 10:28:54 pm
I am at l-2 for making cases and being too active day 1. This is a big mistake to lynch me just because I have been making cases and been active day 1 as scum recently. I think I am playing noticeably different than in any of my recent games.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 07, 2017, 10:37:48 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 07, 2017, 10:53:33 pm
I am at l-2 for making cases and being too active day 1. This is a big mistake to lynch me just because I have been making cases and been active day 1 as scum recently. I think I am playing noticeably different than in any of my recent games.

It's not about you making a case but HOW you made the case and what it's based on, which isn't much in my opinion. Similar to WW's case on IDPTG. This for example:

The more I think about it, the scummier ash seems. I think it's different than some of the other "may or may not" posts in that it's a semi-open set-up and UB is the only role guaranteed to be in the game. Sure, there's a roll where it isn't, but statistically that's unlikely.

There isn't much to go on so I'm not considering this much of a read but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

feels particularly careful and hedgy.  Note that he doesn't take an "Ash could be scum" type stance until it seems like something that could have support.  (McMc and Joseph have voted for Ash.)  But he doesn't actually vote.  My guess would be if we let this ride out (which I'm not doing, explaining all of this) and there was further impression that voting for Ash was "okay", he would get on the wagon.

I prefer to not explain these things and let them play further (I'm going off little here, more evidence is more better), but you wanted content and not jokes and so there you have it.

seems to me like WW picked IDPTG almost at random and accused him of something that almost everyone has been doing so far which is being indecisive and lacking solid reads, which is understandable considering it's D1. I feel like both mcmc and WW's whole thing just came out of nowhere and like I said earlier feels like two scum having a weird interaction. I'd be down for a mcmc or WW lynch today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 11:03:55 pm
Why are you voting eevee? I thought it was just to see if we could get something going. We got something better over here on mcmc, you should join us.
pardon my awaclus, but, because eevee is scum. i am null-kinda-kinda-town on mcmc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 07, 2017, 11:20:54 pm
pardon my awaclus

Please don't let this become a thing. One game was frustrating enough.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 07, 2017, 11:35:28 pm
it's less that i plan to absorb that strategy and more that i think specifically with eevee i don't want to explain
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 11:49:10 pm
Is eevee dumb enough to defend his partner? Does scum!eevee defend a wagon deep townie?

Eevee doesn't look like scum today.

Experienced players think about people asking these questions now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 07, 2017, 11:50:17 pm
I don't really want to lynch McMc.  As much as I like L-1-ing. Alas.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 12:07:07 am
Why are you voting eevee? I thought it was just to see if we could get something going. We got something better over here on mcmc, you should join us.
pardon my awaclus, but, because eevee is scum. i am null-kinda-kinda-town on mcmc

I could see an Eevee vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 01:09:01 am
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

Also, nice OMGUS reaction there.

Also, way to be extremely self-aware of your scum play -- so much do that you had plenty of counter examples preloaded in the chamber to fire as soon as someone pointed it out.

This is scum!mcmc simultaneously happy to have rolled scum again while needing to shrug off his recent tells -- and struggling to do so.

Haha mcmc loves being scum...that's  the line I use on robz whenever I want people to start suspecting him for simply playing the game. I actually don't necessarily like playing scum more than town as scum I just get to talk to my teammates so there more interaction.

Yep it's omgus, but it's omgus against a player I already thought was scummy so not quite the same thing.

Being aware of my scum play doesn't make me scummy, it makes me good. And if you want to vote me because your scared I'm scum and will win go ahead but I also caught eevee d1 in the game where I was town recently. Not trying to brag but I'm also a scary town player.

I'm not struggling to shrug off my recent tells, I haven't tunneled and I haven't called people out for being anti town and used that to pivot into a lynch, I've been engaging and inquisitive.

You don't like playing scum better?  You are really going to attempt this?  From your last scum QT:

Quote
Also yay scum is more fun than town!

That was your second post in the QT, your first being your powers. 

Lynch. All. Liars.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 05:21:50 am
Also, the "sorry, not to brag brah but I'm just a super ultra awesome player that's better than you all so you just don't understand brah" thing only comes from scum.  It's not a pro-town argument.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 07:32:12 am
I really think I found scum!ash. Ashersky is smarter than this for a day one lynch, he is using ancillary evidence to prove I like playing scum more to prove that means I'm scum in this game because I'm active and excited to be playing this game.

Also saying I'm a good town player is not a scummy defense, especially not when the case on me is 100% due to my recent success as scum.

Andrew saying he thinks I'm scum because he thinks the interaction between me and ww seems like two scum faking an interaction is preposterous. It would mean you have found not only one scum this early d1 but two scum...and I'm being criticized because I made a reads list that poe'd a few people I had town reads on...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 07:55:54 am
So far your defenses have been "nuh-uh" and "I'm too good." 

Like, someone said cows are animals and you said, no they aren't.  Why aren't they animals?  You need the reason behind your statement.  I gave mine.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 08:55:47 am
So far your defenses have been "nuh-uh" and "I'm too good." 

Like, someone said cows are animals and you said, no they aren't.  Why aren't they animals?  You need the reason behind your statement.  I gave mine.

Ha what an outrageous analogy. Because cows are factually animals. It's like I have a pet cow and you said your cow is really really sick and I said no it isn't. The difference is it's my cow so I probably know if it's sick and you don't...you haven't given reasons why the cow looks sick other than it looks kinda similar to other sick cows you have...and then I explained how it actually looks very different from my other sick cows.

This is a bad case and you know it ash.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 09:05:38 am
Probably we should be talking about ducks, actually.

Walks like a duck...etc.

Anyway, it's not so much a bad case as it is a good case.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 08, 2017, 09:20:41 am
I really think I found scum!ash

I think you're exactly wrong on this.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 08, 2017, 09:22:24 am
I don't like Ash or McMc; I've cooled on idptg a little bit. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 09:47:29 am
I really think I found scum!ash

I think you're exactly wrong on this.

This is very possible. I don't know why I always assume ash should read me better, I still think he's scummy for how he reacted to people's reaction to his ub claim but I am willing to lynch other people for sure.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 11:46:37 am
I really think I found scum!ash. Ashersky is smarter than this for a day one lynch, he is using ancillary evidence to prove I like playing scum more to prove that means I'm scum in this game because I'm active and excited to be playing this game.

Also saying I'm a good town player is not a scummy defense, especially not when the case on me is 100% due to my recent success as scum.

Andrew saying he thinks I'm scum because he thinks the interaction between me and ww seems like two scum faking an interaction is preposterous. It would mean you have found not only one scum this early d1 but two scum...and I'm being criticized because I made a reads list that poe'd a few people I had town reads on...

I didn't say I found two scum on D1, only that it's looks to me like a strange, not-so-towny interaction and it's worth looking into now and later.

I don't like Ash or McMc; I've cooled on idptg a little bit. 

So are you just null on everyone at this point?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 11:47:55 am
I really think I found scum!ash

I think you're exactly wrong on this.

This is very possible. I don't know why I always assume ash should read me better, I still think he's scummy for how he reacted to people's reaction to his ub claim but I am willing to lynch other people for sure.

I'm not surprised by ash's reaction to the UB thing. It looks pretty null to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 12:03:23 pm
I really think I found scum!ash

I think you're exactly wrong on this.

This is very possible. I don't know why I always assume ash should read me better, I still think he's scummy for how he reacted to people's reaction to his ub claim but I am willing to lynch other people for sure.

I'm not surprised by ash's reaction to the UB thing. It looks pretty null to me.

So what do you think was ash's reason for doing it?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 12:08:56 pm
This is town on town if ever there was such a thing.

Unvote
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 12:09:20 pm
(Or it's a really well manufactured fake scum v scum fight. Wouldn't that be cool?)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 12:10:11 pm
I really think I found scum!ash

I think you're exactly wrong on this.

This is very possible. I don't know why I always assume ash should read me better, I still think he's scummy for how he reacted to people's reaction to his ub claim but I am willing to lynch other people for sure.

I'm not surprised by ash's reaction to the UB thing. It looks pretty null to me.

So what do you think was ash's reason for doing it?

Pfft, I don't know. I've never known the reason ash does anything. To be clear I'm not giving him a pass, just saying I don't see anything out of the ordinary... in ash terms.

This is town on town if ever there was such a thing.

Unvote

Really? What makes you so sure mcmc is town?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 12:12:02 pm
Really? What makes you so sure mcmc is town?

I'm not "so" sure. But I don't know that this is really scum mcmc behavior, and I don't want to immediately punish the person trying the hardest.

To be fair, mcmc has been always scum lately, and I've consistently called it wrong.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 12:24:41 pm
Really? What makes you so sure mcmc is town?

I'm not "so" sure. But I don't know that this is really scum mcmc behavior, and I don't want to immediately punish the person trying the hardest.

To be fair, mcmc has been always scum lately, and I've consistently called it wrong.

But he admitted to consciously playing different this game, let me see if I can find the quote.

Well I can't find it right now but I found it pretty odd.

Oh yeah and what do you make of this weirdness:

@dylans comment:

I understand not liking the self aware analysis and can see how it feels rehearsed and that because it is. To emulate my town meta as scum I have to have a good grasp of how I think people view me as town and what I can slightly change about the playstyle to fit my goals for each scum game. So I know how I think people can catch me when I'm scum so when ash says mcmc is acting like scum!mcmc from a recent game I can very quickly and easily explain some differneces.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 01:02:47 pm
This is town on town if ever there was such a thing.

Unvote

Maybe. I'm pretty certain ash is town from the interaction, though. I think ash is just baiting and mcmc is taking it. The question is whether or not scum!mcmc loses his cool or if it's just town!mcmc. when I'm town in these cases I work towards making my mislynch as illuminating as possible. That is, I don't rightly try to work out of it. That siad, if mcmc is scum then this practically clears ash which would be bad if ash is also scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 01:06:19 pm
This is town on town if ever there was such a thing.

Unvote

Maybe. I'm pretty certain ash is town from the interaction, though. I think ash is just baiting and mcmc is taking it. The question is whether or not scum!mcmc loses his cool or if it's just town!mcmc. when I'm town in these cases I work towards making my mislynch as illuminating as possible. That is, I don't rightly try to work out of it. That siad, if mcmc is scum then this practically clears ash which would be bad if ash is also scum.

So what you're saying is...

(Or it's a really well manufactured fake scum v scum fight. Wouldn't that be cool?)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 01:25:41 pm
So far your defenses have been "nuh-uh" and "I'm too good." 

Like, someone said cows are animals and you said, no they aren't.  Why aren't they animals?  You need the reason behind your statement.  I gave mine.

Ha what an outrageous analogy. Because cows are factually animals. It's like I have a pet cow and you said your cow is really really sick and I said no it isn't. The difference is it's my cow so I probably know if it's sick and you don't...you haven't given reasons why the cow looks sick other than it looks kinda similar to other sick cows you have...and then I explained how it actually looks very different from my other sick cows.

This is a bad case and you know it ash.

So you're a cow? mcmoosalot?

Not convinced by this cow analogy. I think ash might have a point here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 01:28:46 pm
ash was the premier cow analogizer though
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 01:37:52 pm
This is town on town if ever there was such a thing.

Unvote

Maybe. I'm pretty certain ash is town from the interaction, though. I think ash is just baiting and mcmc is taking it. The question is whether or not scum!mcmc loses his cool or if it's just town!mcmc. when I'm town in these cases I work towards making my mislynch as illuminating as possible. That is, I don't rightly try to work out of it. That siad, if mcmc is scum then this practically clears ash which would be bad if ash is also scum.

So what you're saying is...

(Or it's a really well manufactured fake scum v scum fight. Wouldn't that be cool?)

I'm not saying it is that. I'm saying I'm reading town on ash here and weighing if mcmc is town or scum from his reaction.
If it is scum on scum it wouldn't be cool for us town because I'm pretty sure a scum!mcmc flip would clear ashersky until too late to recover.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 01:42:02 pm
By "cool" I meant "very very brilliant for scum and bad for town"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 01:59:41 pm
By "cool" I meant "very very brilliant for scum and bad for town"

and you thought you hated humor...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:00:36 pm
town: andrew, robz, pps, ww, milk macaroon
dunno: twm, ask her sky, joseph, d32
want to lynch: idptg
want three lynch: eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 02:07:00 pm
I'm not a fan of these reads lists with nothing to back it up. Please elaborate.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:15:12 pm
so my townreads are more or less based on towntells for the person in particular. i'm going to try to describe them without helping the people in question to imitate them


robz: hamfisted
pps: dopey
ww: not trying to be town
andrew: don't have a towntell, you just seem to have thoughts
milk macaroon: as i said, human. there is one specific thing that i'm thinking of with this


and


idp: a blog with 4 entries that are all just explaining why there aren't more of them
eevee: niagara falls


nulls: twm hasn't posted really. d32 is difficult. joseph i haven't looked at scumgames of. ash hasn't set me off yet
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 02:21:10 pm
so my townreads are more or less based on towntells for the person in particular. i'm going to try to describe them without helping the people in question to imitate them


robz: hamfisted
pps: dopey
ww: not trying to be town
andrew: don't have a towntell, you just seem to have thoughts
milk macaroon: as i said, human. there is one specific thing that i'm thinking of with this


and


idp: a blog with 4 entries that are all just explaining why there aren't more of them
eevee: niagara falls


nulls: twm hasn't posted really. d32 is difficult. joseph i haven't looked at scumgames of. ash hasn't set me off yet

aha!

Only scum leaves themselves off their reads list!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:22:09 pm
So I am starting to read, obviously the first thing is ash's thing with the UB. Maybe this is discussed later, but I'll ask anyways.

Ash why do you so quickly start responding to and giving opinions on how people should react to your post, before most players even had a chance to give their own independent reaction?

Like the only reason I see to do what you did, if you are town is to get people to react in a certain way and then read them based off it, but your talking about it so quickly influences how people respond to it. It introduced a variable that contaminates the results.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:22:27 pm
i don't have any towntells for myself
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:24:20 pm
I actually don't like the amount that ashersky has reacted to and answered his own question.

Looks like mcmc agreed with me.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:25:41 pm
So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

This post is voteable (word I just made up)

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:28:25 pm
yeah, dylan's like that
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:31:05 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

He didn't in the game I was in with him. I asked schadd to prod him about 5 times in my personal QT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:33:05 pm
So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on. Voting had no effect on TWM, he was notably absent, game stalling, so prodded him.

I don't think it is fair to blame the game stalling on me. And again, I apologize for being notably absent. Game started sooner than I thought it would and work was busy after coming back from vacation.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:35:00 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:36:13 pm
twm, how did you like m91?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:37:23 pm
twm, how did you like m91?

I thought you were very scummy for a mod.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 08, 2017, 02:37:43 pm
town: andrew, robz, pps, ww, milk macaroon
dunno: twm, ask her sky, joseph, d32
want to lynch: idptg
want three lynch: eevee
I'm definitely town

Also, this is a seriously early reads list

PPE: 1?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 08, 2017, 02:41:07 pm
twm, how did you like m91?

I thought you were very scummy for a mod.
but did you like the game, is the thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 02:47:11 pm
twm, how did you like m91?

I thought you were very scummy for a mod.
but did you like the game, is the thing

Oh sorry, I thought you asked "how did you like me in m91." But I really liked it. It was stressful. But I had a good time. I felt like sometimes I didn't convey that very well as I was trying more to adopt a persona of forceful and kind of emotional to hide my anxiety and stress over being mafia.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 02:49:00 pm
town: andrew, robz, pps, ww, milk macaroon
dunno: twm, ask her sky, joseph, d32
want to lynch: idptg
want three lynch: eevee

Oh boy, milk macaroon may be my new favorite nickname. Also I still dunno what you see in eevee though he is a little quiet. I feel like I want eevee to be town and it is hindering my ability to read him though idk, maybe I am just viewing him as towny and then I'm being overconcerned with it being a read because I like him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 02:53:11 pm
So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on. Voting had no effect on TWM, he was notably absent, game stalling, so prodded him.

I don't think it is fair to blame the game stalling on me. And again, I apologize for being notably absent. Game started sooner than I thought it would and work was busy after coming back from vacation.

Yeah, no, the two were related but still separate. The game stalled and I realized you needed prodded.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 02:54:52 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 03:05:55 pm
town: andrew, robz, pps, ww, milk macaroon
dunno: twm, ask her sky, joseph, d32
want to lynch: idptg
want three lynch: eevee
I'm definitely town

Also, this is a seriously early reads list

PPE: 1?

Were 3 days away from deadline and Saturday's are usually slow so it's not that early. I said I don't like people giving early reads lists as scum befor but I don't think it's actually a bad thing. Early reads lists can be very helpful as long as people understand that as time passes those are liable to change drastically. I posted a reads list with 6 pages of content, since then 3 pages of content has been made so obviously my reads have changed slightly.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 08, 2017, 04:20:35 pm
I'm leaning slightly town towards ash & his antics
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 08, 2017, 04:21:22 pm
Vote: PPA
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 04:25:46 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 08, 2017, 04:27:44 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.
Possible, but I've not played with him much.
And I think we early lynched him last time I played with him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 04:31:58 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.

Now I'm just confirmation biasing everything but this looks like "mcmc didn't work, let's try robz!"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 04:33:26 pm
Vote: PPA

Do you think pps is scummy and was that an on purpose callback to the whole one letter off in votes will count...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 08, 2017, 04:35:17 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.

Now I'm just confirmation biasing everything but this looks like "mcmc didn't work, let's try robz!"

At least you recognize the bias.  Also, it seems like you are jealous.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 04:38:01 pm
Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads

Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 04:39:41 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.

Now I'm just confirmation biasing everything but this looks like "mcmc didn't work, let's try robz!"

At least you recognize the bias.  Also, it seems like you are jealous.

Oh yes ash I'm a bad dirty townie please vote for me
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 08, 2017, 05:16:00 pm
Vote: PPA

Do you think pps is scummy and was that an on purpose callback to the whole one letter off in votes will count...
Possibly and yes
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 05:18:21 pm
Vote: PPA

Do you think pps is scummy and was that an on purpose callback to the whole one letter off in votes will count...
Possibly and yes

Those are unhelpful answers after making an unhelpful call back to what was an unhelpful conversation in the beginning of the game.

vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 05:22:43 pm
I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.

I thought the same. Will vote.

About the only people I won't vote are Ash and myself. Maybe TWM just because there's nothing on him and he did show up and seem here to stay (hmm, that could be a D1 scum tactic, so yeah, I'd do him too).

But, as far as people I'd like to see die today are mcmc or Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 08, 2017, 06:06:00 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.

I get that. But I feel that the moment it is said it loses all utility.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 06:11:16 pm
Vote: PPA

Do you think pps is scummy and was that an on purpose callback to the whole one letter off in votes will count...
Possibly and yes

Those are unhelpful answers after making an unhelpful call back to what was an unhelpful conversation in the beginning of the game.

vote: Joseph

Not interested in lynching ash anymore? Why'd you give up on that so suddenly?

I think Robz might be scum.  Spidey sense is tingling.

I thought the same. Will vote.

About the only people I won't vote are Ash and myself. Maybe TWM just because there's nothing on him and he did show up and seem here to stay (hmm, that could be a D1 scum tactic, so yeah, I'd do him too).

But, as far as people I'd like to see die today are mcmc or Robz.

You thought the same what? Just that Robz is scum? I mean ash can cite his "spidey sense" and that's normal (if unhelpful) but I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary for D1 Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 08, 2017, 06:51:10 pm
Had a busy day, glad to have been missed! Going to sleep soon now as well, very tireeed.

I don't think mcmc or ash are good lynches. Mcmc is driving the conversation so much, I think there is some utility in that. Ash is playing a little different than I'd expect, but I don't think he is looking scummy. Definitely interesting though, like I feel there is something I'm missing.

schadd I can never read, but he seems super sure I'm scum. (I'm not!!)
 
Robz and PPS continue being less forceful than I'd expect, but I don't really have a strong read to push either, so it feels hypocritical to blame them too much.

I think best lynch candidates would be the quiet, least splashy people. When my eyes are less tired, I think I'll look into rereading the rest of the lower posters, always thought that was a useful exercise for the time commitment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 06:55:22 pm
Vote: PPA

Do you think pps is scummy and was that an on purpose callback to the whole one letter off in votes will count...
Possibly and yes

Those are unhelpful answers after making an unhelpful call back to what was an unhelpful conversation in the beginning of the game.

vote: Joseph

Not interested in lynching ash anymore? Why'd you give up on that so suddenly?

I haven't given up, I still find ash scummy as I said. I'm just understanding I could be wrong and many players disagree with me, Joseph stood out as being scummy as well so I have moved my vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 08, 2017, 06:59:44 pm
What's the case on Joseph?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 07:39:55 pm
Had a busy day, glad to have been missed! Going to sleep soon now as well, very tireeed.

I don't think mcmc or ash are good lynches. Mcmc is driving the conversation so much, I think there is some utility in that. Ash is playing a little different than I'd expect, but I don't think he is looking scummy. Definitely interesting though, like I feel there is something I'm missing.

schadd I can never read, but he seems super sure I'm scum. (I'm not!!)
 
Robz and PPS continue being less forceful than I'd expect, but I don't really have a strong read to push either, so it feels hypocritical to blame them too much.

I think best lynch candidates would be the quiet, least splashy people. When my eyes are less tired, I think I'll look into rereading the rest of the lower posters, always thought that was a useful exercise for the time commitment.

Really? After all the discussion and accusations your suggestion is to lynch a lurker?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 08, 2017, 07:58:03 pm
Does everyone except me see town vs town in the mcmc/WW thing? Because if not we should lynch one of them.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 08:17:01 pm
Does everyone except me see town vs town in the mcmc/WW thing? Because if not we should lynch one of them.

I thought we had a bigass wagon on mickey mac. Does that answer the question?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 08, 2017, 08:18:06 pm
I mean, Joseph, mcmc, Robz is the scum team.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 08, 2017, 08:21:23 pm
I mean, Joseph, mcmc, Robz is the scum team.

That would be awesome but sadly no. Drunk ama
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 09:05:31 pm
idp: a blog with 4 entries that are all just explaining why there aren't more of them

Did I just get scumread for trying to post more?

Does everyone except me see town vs town in the mcmc/WW thing? Because if not we should lynch one of them.

I'm not sure how I feel about the mcmc/WW interaction, but I would think we leave them and ash alive for the time being. I guess I agree with Eevee there but my PoE lynch pool leaves much to be desired.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 09:25:45 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.

That's right. Also I'm biased against lynching the more active players, since games with only low posters left are typically won by scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 08, 2017, 09:28:01 pm
I actually think ash making a "Robz is scum" pivot might be a town tell for him. Because here I am, saying I think ash is town. If ash is scum, he risks losing my support if he starts gunning for me. Probably smarter to lightly buddy me, if ash is scum. Therefore, he's probably not.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 08, 2017, 10:04:45 pm
I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.

Yeah this is how I took it also.

And lol TWM. Early I try to post little bits of reads so people know where I stand unless I see something I think is really strong evidence. Then I will post a lot more. More often than not, I'm incorrect about whatever conclusion I come to when that happens though, sadly (i.e. schadd circa squid girl, gkrieg circa stranger things). The only thing I think I've actually gotten right recently was protecting gkrieg as the bodyguard in squid girl mafia. Nailed it. not that it helped much...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 08, 2017, 10:30:28 pm
Mcmc. If the DAMA still stands, are you scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 10:35:26 pm
Mcmc. If the DAMA still stands, are you scum?

And no lying!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 08, 2017, 10:46:48 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 11:01:20 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

How is that even relevant?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 08, 2017, 11:36:50 pm
So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 09, 2017, 02:23:58 am
I mean, Joseph, mcmc, Robz is the scum team.

That would be awesome but sadly no. Drunk ama
Lol what? No.
I'm the SK
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 09, 2017, 02:31:21 am
Vote Count 1.3+1

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, pingpongsam
Eevee (1): schadd
Joseph2302 (2): Eevee, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 09, 2017, 04:18:07 am
Vote Count 1.3+1

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, pingpongsam
Eevee (1): schadd
Joseph2302 (2): Eevee, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Vote: mcmx

L-2
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 09, 2017, 07:32:46 am
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Wierd that post was at 10:30, I was 100% in bed watching bones(don't ask) by 9:30 so I could have checked my phone though I'm pretty sure since I leave the tabs open on my phone it might mess things up.

I can answer the question now though, I am not scum!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 09, 2017, 09:39:40 am
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 09:44:36 am
Vote: Joseph

indeed
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 09:45:01 am
So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

I do not like this post.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 09:45:40 am
So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

I do not like this post.

Wait that's the wrong post.  I meant Dylan's actual one:

So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

I do not like this post.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 09:45:53 am
God damn it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 09:46:12 am
This one:

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 09, 2017, 10:37:31 am
vote: joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 09, 2017, 10:48:07 am
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 09, 2017, 11:27:50 am
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".

Weird that Eevee is asking that question, when he is voting for him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 09, 2017, 01:03:39 pm
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".
There's never a case on me.
Except that people always think I'm not serious enough, especially on D1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 09, 2017, 01:24:33 pm
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".

Weird that Eevee is asking that question, when he is voting for him.
Leftover RVS vote. unvote

When i get home, time to get the investigation trail.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 09, 2017, 03:44:24 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Dylan, would you like to explain this?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 09, 2017, 03:54:24 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Dylan, would you like to explain this?

I would actually like to know how you(dylan) came to think this as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 09, 2017, 06:32:55 pm
I would like to reiterate I don't think mcmc is a good lynch. He is basically being singled out for scumhunting too aggressively? I think it's a common reaction to want to lynch someone who has done well lately as scum, because you don't want to be duped by the same person repeatedly over short period, but do we really want to lynch the guy who is driving most of the action? It doesn't even look like particularly opportunistic scumhunting, sure I would agree he is more engaged than I would expect from townmcmc day 1, but this looks to me like punishing him for trying, which kind of sucks.

Reread PPS, which was definitely a weird experience. He doesn't have a lot of posts, but his posts are very full of content. Makes it seem like it's not that he has nothing to say, but more that he is choosing to stay on the back, which is interesting. Not someone I'd be looking to lynch though, I think high content:post ratio is pretty towny in general. My instinct would have been that he has been less helpful than he has, and I think PPS is a pretty self-aware guy and that doesn't seem like a style scum would want to play.


Btw, I love being scum and unless it's RMM I am pretty meh on being town.

So, I am clearly town this game.
This is a somewhat weird quote, because PPS seems pretty in tune with what's happening in the game. Or is it meh as in not as eager to put in a lot of effort?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 09, 2017, 08:33:12 pm
I've gotten where D1 really bores me. I mean it's useful later so we have to do it but it's just a dice roll, really. As scum, D1 is more interesting and I am more inclined to drive the game. I disagree that it is overtly towny to drive the game, especially on D1 because that's exactly what I do whe. I am scum.

I'll be more engaged next day when we have a couple flips and maybe some night results.

Good analysis, though. I have focused on contributing solid plays and less posts for this day.

We can agree to disagree on Mickey mac.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 09, 2017, 08:44:13 pm
vets keep shitting on d1 and i'm like, that's my day you're taking about
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 08:48:19 pm
I would like to reiterate I don't think mcmc is a good lynch. He is basically being singled out for scumhunting too aggressively? I think it's a common reaction to want to lynch someone who has done well lately as scum, because you don't want to be duped by the same person repeatedly over short period, but do we really want to lynch the guy who is driving most of the action? It doesn't even look like particularly opportunistic scumhunting, sure I would agree he is more engaged than I would expect from townmcmc day 1, but this looks to me like punishing him for trying, which kind of sucks.

Reread PPS, which was definitely a weird experience. He doesn't have a lot of posts, but his posts are very full of content. Makes it seem like it's not that he has nothing to say, but more that he is choosing to stay on the back, which is interesting. Not someone I'd be looking to lynch though, I think high content:post ratio is pretty towny in general. My instinct would have been that he has been less helpful than he has, and I think PPS is a pretty self-aware guy and that doesn't seem like a style scum would want to play.


Btw, I love being scum and unless it's RMM I am pretty meh on being town.

So, I am clearly town this game.
This is a somewhat weird quote, because PPS seems pretty in tune with what's happening in the game. Or is it meh as in not as eager to put in a lot of effort?

So is there anyone you do want to lynch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 09, 2017, 10:18:27 pm
I've gotten where D1 really bores me. I mean it's useful later so we have to do it but it's just a dice roll, really. As scum, D1 is more interesting and I am more inclined to drive the game. I disagree that it is overtly towny to drive the game, especially on D1 because that's exactly what I do whe. I am scum.

I'll be more engaged next day when we have a couple flips and maybe some night results.

Good analysis, though. I have focused on contributing solid plays and less posts for this day.

We can agree to disagree on Mickey mac.

Yeah I agree with this more or less. To those who say we shouldn't lynch mcmc since he's doing the most scumhunting. Ok sure, maybe he is, on D1. What's to say he wont start lurking later? And what's to say lurkers wont become active and contribute much more later on? I think we should lynch based on perceived scumminess instead of lurkiness.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 09, 2017, 10:41:15 pm
based purely off of memory and then going back to the list of players, I am leaning toward one of the following: ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash?

So I guess those are people I should look at more specifically
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 09, 2017, 10:56:10 pm
What do people think of Andrew?  I feel as if no one has said much about him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:27:48 am
@WW
I don't know yet, I keep rereading people or waiting for a case I like from others, haven't found what i'm looking for yet. I'll do andrew next and give my opinion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 04:30:27 am
What do people think of Andrew?  I feel as if no one has said much about him.
And what do people think of WW?
I think maybe town for now
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 04:30:57 am
What do people think of Andrew?  I feel as if no one has said much about him.
And what do people think of WW?
I think maybe town for now
And in answer to the actual question, I don't know.
Not seen much content from him
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 06:09:58 am
I'm eventually going to mod a game and the design criteria will make D1 clutch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 06:19:52 am
I'm eventually going to mod a game and the design criteria will make D1 clutch.

A game for three players.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 06:20:33 am
I'm eventually going to mod a game and the design criteria will make D1 clutch.

A game for three players.
That sounds fun.....
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 06:21:01 am
I'm eventually going to mod a game and the design criteria will make D1 clutch.
Agree, D1 is always a crapshoot
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 06:21:32 am
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 10, 2017, 06:21:59 am
Vote Count 1.5

mcmcsalot (5): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, pingpongsam, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (3+1):, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Eevee

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 07:52:07 am
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim
I don't think you should crowdsource your claiming.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 08:04:33 am
Vote: Joseph

Reread him, I could definitely see a scum narrative in his voting history (first voted for ashersky, when the tide turned against lynching ash, changed his position to "town because of his antics). Nothing really struck to me as towny in his posting either, hard to put a finger on it but I don't get the impression he is trying to figure things out, more that he wants a lynch through that isn't him. This claim question strengthens that impression, I think town is more concerned with concealing their role because it's better for town regardless of your role, whereas scum might be more anxious to claim because they think it might help get them out of hot water. Basically, for town one can think "well, if I die, it might actually help us win if it happens in the right way", whereas scum MUST avoid getting lynched day 1, because if they go down their team is in very big trouble.


L-2, if I do my math right.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 10, 2017, 10:52:39 am
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim

And here I thought we'd left this behind earlier D1...besides, you already claimed SK. Is there a reason you want to bring us back to RVS style posts?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 11:04:26 am
What do people think of Andrew?  I feel as if no one has said much about him.

I find Andrew difficult to read so far, I think I am edging townie on him because his posts feel like they are pretty genuinely inquisitive which I find to be a town trait. This is in direct contrast with how I feel about Joseph whose posts have all seemed like he is just posting content for the sake of posting. I agree wholeheartedly with eevee's recent analysis of joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 11:13:30 am
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim

And here I thought we'd left this behind earlier D1...besides, you already claimed SK. Is there a reason you want to bring us back to RVS style posts?

I agree, I don't like this claim post at all. Eevee's assessment makes sense, though I'm not sure why he didn't want to commit to a vote after making his case. I'll do it for him.

vote: Joseph L-1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 11:14:32 am
Wait nevermind, Eevee did vote. My mistake!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:15:03 am
What do people think of Andrew?  I feel as if no one has said much about him.

I find Andrew difficult to read so far, I think I am edging townie on him because his posts feel like they are pretty genuinely inquisitive which I find to be a town trait. This is in direct contrast with how I feel about Joseph whose posts have all seemed like he is just posting content for the sake of posting. I agree wholeheartedly with eevee's recent analysis of joseph

So, you're good with bussing on D1 for the cred?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:15:41 am
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:16:16 am
Feel free to claim now, Joseph.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 11:18:15 am
Well alright then. Didn't feel the need to post intent to hammer?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:19:10 am
Well alright then. Didn't feel the need to post intent to hammer?

It's assumed. I mean, ashersky is in the game so it was double jeopardy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:20:36 am
Any other game and we're all worried about assembling a lynch before deadline, especially with the weekend looming. I did us all a favor.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:21:18 am
Besides, I'm going for the less posts more content thing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:26:05 am
I started to get uneasy about the L-2 and L-1 votes there.  For whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:26:16 am
PPS is town I think
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:27:19 am
PPS is town I think

Probably 100% if Joseph is scum, but also very likely if Joseph is town as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 11:29:12 am
I started to get uneasy about the L-2 and L-1 votes there.  For whatever that's worth.

What? Why?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 11:30:50 am
PPS is town I think

Probably 100% if Joseph is scum, but also very likely if Joseph is town as well.

Let's go with 90%. It'd be pretty bold scum play, but obviously awards PPS massive towncred.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 11:31:35 am
well that's dumb.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:32:15 am
I started to get uneasy about the L-2 and L-1 votes there.  For whatever that's worth.

What? Why?

Eevee's felt weird, mainly.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 10, 2017, 11:44:35 am
Vote Count 1.final

mcmcsalot (3): Dylan32, ashersky, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5+2):, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it took 5+2 to lynch. Twilight ends at 13-2.13+2pm FT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:51:04 am
Guys I'm good. I'm a 1-shot governor
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:51:31 am
Just used by 1-shot to resurrect myself, so I'll be VT for rest of the game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:53:57 am
So, was it better to save yourself just to get for sure NK'd because you are an IC or to have taken the mislynch and let the UB be the new governor?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 11:55:01 am
Also, do you still like your vote on mcmc?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:56:15 am
Fuck, forgot the UB.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:56:32 am
In which case, not saving myself then
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:56:38 am
So, was it better to save yourself just to get for sure NK'd because you are an IC or to have taken the mislynch and let the UB be the new governor?

Why would the latter be better?  And UB isn't guaranteed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 11:56:58 am
Oh, if he uses his shot and gets killed UB doesn't get a shot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:58:28 am
So, was it better to save yourself just to get for sure NK'd because you are an IC or to have taken the mislynch and let the UB be the new governor?
I think PPS is town for suggesting this.
Also the people that hammered me are idiots and probably some scum there
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 11:59:16 am
There's still a day of twilight? In which case, I'll try and make some decent reads
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:01:37 pm
There's still a day of twilight? In which case, I'll try and make some decent reads

Right, are you still thinking mcmc is scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:02:14 pm
So, was it better to save yourself just to get for sure NK'd because you are an IC or to have taken the mislynch and let the UB be the new governor?

Why would the latter be better?  And UB isn't guaranteed.

UB is guaranteed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 12:02:42 pm
Oh, if he uses his shot and gets killed UB doesn't get a shot.

Yeah. Did you use your shot already Joseph?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:02:53 pm
the people that hammered me are idiots

noted
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:03:02 pm
Oh, if he uses his shot and gets killed UB doesn't get a shot.

Yeah. Did you use your shot already Joseph?

He clearly did.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:03:46 pm
oh, also, Incidentally, pps don't fucking do that
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 12:04:02 pm
Oh, if he uses his shot and gets killed UB doesn't get a shot.

Yeah. Did you use your shot already Joseph?

He clearly did.

Well first he said he did, then he said he wasn't going to.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:05:22 pm
Oh, if he uses his shot and gets killed UB doesn't get a shot.

Yeah. Did you use your shot already Joseph?

He clearly did.

Well first he said he did, then he said he wasn't going to.

Well, I think it would be bad form for LaLight to let him retract it. That the thread isn't locked is evidence enough as LaLight was clearly present.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 12:06:09 pm
Request vote count
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:07:05 pm
So the good news is we start tomorrow with only one dead townsperson. Also we have an IC to weigh with today.

Can someone better at setups confirm scum cannot be governor? Because, I mean, we have to consider the possibility, right? That would better explain him forgetting the UB.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:07:49 pm
joseph shouldn't have claimed but well that's done. would we rather the ub have a governor shot or not have an extra town die?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:08:21 pm
scum can't be governor you drongus
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 12:08:33 pm
It is open, scum can only have these roles:

Scum Roles (In addition to the factional 1-night Switch)
TTTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon
TTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TTTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon
TTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TT = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman
T = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***
0 Ts = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:08:45 pm
If I understand the role correctly there will be no further lynching today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 10, 2017, 12:08:54 pm
Request vote count

Vote Count stays the same, Twilight is 12 hours long.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:09:17 pm
What is a night switch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:09:25 pm
VV or WW required.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 12:09:36 pm
I thought Governor let us lynch again.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:09:54 pm
What is a night switch?

Can turn off powers for the night.  See Switch Mafia.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:10:06 pm
Really want reads info from Joseph since we can trust it, especially on mcmc.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:10:18 pm
I thought Governor let us lynch again.

Don't think so.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:10:32 pm
What is a night switch?

Can turn off powers for the night.  See Switch Mafia.

That also disables the NK?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:11:16 pm
See, now, we got us an interesting D1. I knew we had it in me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:11:43 pm
No.  It turns off a town power (they choose a category).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:12:14 pm

What is a night switch?

Can turn off powers for the night.  See Switch Mafia.

That also disables the NK?
only powers from one category


See, now, we got us an interesting D1. I knew we had it in me.
no, we really didn't.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:12:33 pm
No.  It turns off a town power (they choose a category).

Well, that's ugly.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:12:37 pm
I like the Gov using it on himself.  It's neg utility usually.

Likely kill target tonight, which negates some stuff. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:13:42 pm
I think a Restless Spirit should claim.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:14:19 pm

What is a night switch?

Can turn off powers for the night.  See Switch Mafia.

That also disables the NK?
only powers from one category


See, now, we got us an interesting D1. I knew we had it in me.
no, we really didn't.

You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1? Damn, I'm really gonna have to step it up when I design that game...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:16:30 pm
I like the Gov using it on himself.  It's neg utility usually.

Likely kill target tonight, which negates some stuff.

Agreed. Probably better later in the game but there is such a thing as too late which is strictly worse than too early.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:24:30 pm

I think a Restless Spirit should claim.
rs by design doesn't want to claim i think


You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1? Damn, I'm really gonna have to step it up when I design that game...
ic is like the least interesting person to talk to. wagon information is trash because joseph is lynchbait and no town's could have actually made a reasonable judgement (i voted him for funzies). meanwhile, we had two wagons at all, one of them was kinda cool and the other shot its wad after 10 seconds. no exciting deadline scramble, no interesting decisions, no nothing. and a massive PR became sand.


my 3 most recent D1s have set a massive standard: i lynched scum, i almost defended myself from scum, and i vigged scum. you decided the coolest thing that could happen is an informationless, reactionless quickhammer that nobody else pushed/defended
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 12:25:28 pm
I like the Gov using it on himself.  It's neg utility usually.

Likely kill target tonight, which negates some stuff.

Wait, if the Gov uses it on himself and gets NKed, isn't that a waste for the UB? It doesn't make the UB an IC as scum can just counterclaim, right? So wouldn't it be better for the Gov to not use his shot so the UB inherits it?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 12:27:38 pm
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=8865268#p8865268


dunnstral was scum, the four people he addressed were town, i shot him, more or less confirmed us, we won D2. but  nope, none of that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 12:28:35 pm
I like the Gov using it on himself.  It's neg utility usually.

Likely kill target tonight, which negates some stuff.

Wait, if the Gov uses it on himself and gets NKed, isn't that a waste for the UB? It doesn't make the UB an IC as scum can just counterclaim, right? So wouldn't it be better for the Gov to not use his shot so the UB inherits it?

There's an argument for that, yes.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 12:52:08 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 12:53:03 pm
He's only lying if he actually ends up lynched.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:54:13 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:55:12 pm
Unfortunately, he disappeared right around the time we can all believe every word he says.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 10, 2017, 12:56:13 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.

I'll be convinced he's an IC after Twilight.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:57:18 pm

I think a Restless Spirit should claim.
rs by design doesn't want to claim i think


You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1? Damn, I'm really gonna have to step it up when I design that game...
ic is like the least interesting person to talk to. wagon information is trash because joseph is lynchbait and no town's could have actually made a reasonable judgement (i voted him for funzies). meanwhile, we had two wagons at all, one of them was kinda cool and the other shot its wad after 10 seconds. no exciting deadline scramble, no interesting decisions, no nothing. and a massive PR became sand.


my 3 most recent D1s have set a massive standard: i lynched scum, i almost defended myself from scum, and i vigged scum. you decided the coolest thing that could happen is an informationless, reactionless quickhammer that nobody else pushed/defended

Well, that's cool but you aren't describing typical D1s and we were definitely having one of those.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 12:57:48 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.

I'll be convinced he's an IC after Twilight.

So, we can otherwise have 12 hours of twilight sans governor?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:00:18 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.

I'll be convinced he's an IC after Twilight.

So, we can otherwise have 12 hours of twilight sans governor?

Yea I was sort of asking along the lines of would the thread have autolocked if he was scum or could he be lying for these 12 hours. I'm happy taking the assumption he's telling the truth I was just curious.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:01:41 pm
Also schadd makes a good point that his day ones have been pretty well played and I do think pps cutting the day short with that hammer was bad. Though again I'm nrnsure why we have this much twilight and if it's because of an early hammer I guess I understand pps just pulling the trigger to get a new type of discussion going for twilight.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 01:03:41 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.

I'll be convinced he's an IC after Twilight.

So, we can otherwise have 12 hours of twilight sans governor?

Yea I was sort of asking along the lines of would the thread have autolocked if he was scum or could he be lying for these 12 hours. I'm happy taking the assumption he's telling the truth I was just curious.

Yeah I think since there was no flip that means he used his shot? Maybe?

Also schadd makes a good point that his day ones have been pretty well played and I do think pps cutting the day short with that hammer was bad. Though again I'm nrnsure why we have this much twilight and if it's because of an early hammer I guess I understand pps just pulling the trigger to get a new type of discussion going for twilight.

I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 01:06:15 pm
read the setup, you guys. twilight is anyways 12 hours. monkey macaw, you played this setup before.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 01:08:08 pm
Well, that's cool but you aren't describing typical D1s and we were definitely having one of those.
sure, and good thing you cut it short before anything interesting happened. for now, all of your justification has been post-hoc, and something you could not have reasonably expected would happen
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:11:36 pm
but reading setups is such a boring use of 30min of my time befor I spent countless days and hours thinking about what alignment people are...

If setup is always 12 hours it's possible Joseph is lying which is good.

If joe is lying it is wierd that ash chimed in to ask the restless spirit(if exists) to claim, and there has been more discussion of what should happen to the ub if Joseph uses or doesn't use his shot. It's just an awful lot of pr talk and claim baiting going on for day one.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 01:11:59 pm
I don't see how it would be a productive lie.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:12:19 pm
Well, that's cool but you aren't describing typical D1s and we were definitely having one of those.
sure, and good thing you cut it short before anything interesting happened. for now, all of your justification has been post-hoc, and something you could not have reasonably expected would happen
This! Man I'm really glad I lynched you first in our other game schadd the man makes lots of sense.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:14:25 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:15:27 pm
Damn, the setup does say twilight lasts 12 hours.

That Joseph is suddenly disappeared looks like a good deal with that info.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:16:11 pm
I don't see how it would be a productive lie.

Getting claims and interactions out for the rest of the scum team. I agree though it's more likely Joseph is town.

governee not being able to see the flip makes his power pretty weak and I actually think using his shot and making scum kill him is better than giving the governor power to the ub to use later.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 10, 2017, 01:16:57 pm
I don't see how it would be a productive lie.

And I don't see how telling the truth would be productive for scum.

Damn, the setup does say twilight lasts 12 hours.

That Joseph is suddenly disappeared looks like a good deal with that info.

Am I the only one who reads set-ups (aside from schadd)?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:17:16 pm
I don't see how it would be a productive lie.

Getting claims and interactions out for the rest of the scum team. I agree though it's more likely Joseph is town.

governee not being able to see the flip makes his power pretty weak and I actually think using his shot and making scum kill him is better than giving the governor power to the ub to use later.

Agree with all this and more.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:17:47 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.
Being on a crusade could be seen as being bored therefor deciding to crusade for hammers...but o do believe town pps could be bored/crusading
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:18:22 pm
I don't see how it would be a productive lie.

And I don't see how telling the truth would be productive for scum.

Damn, the setup does say twilight lasts 12 hours.

That Joseph is suddenly disappeared looks like a good deal with that info.

Am I the only one who reads set-ups (aside from schadd)?

It's not so much that I don't read setups it's more that I have a long and colorful history of making egregious errors as a result of misreading setups. I've found I'm better off not reading them until necessary and even then fact checking my interpretation.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:21:22 pm
Hey schadd and pps do you feel like we are having a conversation and idp is sitting in the corner of the room adding random interjections?

Those people always seem scummy to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 01:22:11 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.

Or maybe you're living up to your signature.

Well, that's cool but you aren't describing typical D1s and we were definitely having one of those.
sure, and good thing you cut it short before anything interesting happened. for now, all of your justification has been post-hoc, and something you could not have reasonably expected would happen

I agree with sarcastic!schadd, although there's no guarantee anything interesting would've happened and I don't necessarily think we need to use every minute of the day before we lynch someone. But not giving Joseph a chance to defend himself/claim or giving anyone else the chance to give some last minute input is scummy, especially since PPS didn't know about the 12 hour twilight and thought there would be a quick flip followed by N1.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:24:06 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 01:25:08 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 10, 2017, 01:25:34 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

What do you want from me?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:26:20 pm
Note that I made no such assertions about how I expected the day to wind up until after Joseph made his claim.

No, my initial attitude was that the day was over and we'd get a flip and move on. In fact, I could dig up and quote where I basically said I did us all favor to end the day early instead of have us do a bunch of hasty posturing and assembling a lynch with half the players absent during the weekend.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:27:33 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:27:53 pm
Any other game and we're all worried about assembling a lynch before deadline, especially with the weekend looming. I did us all a favor.

Oh, looky there.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:29:25 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.

Maybe sometimes. I don't know about you but I'm doing this thing while doing other more important things so the timing is generally going to be dictated by those other things and not this thing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:29:41 pm
Note that I made no such assertions about how I expected the day to wind up until after Joseph made his claim.

No, my initial attitude was that the day was over and we'd get a flip and move on. In fact, I could dig up and quote where I basically said I did us all favor to end the day early instead of have us do a bunch of hasty posturing and assembling a lynch with half the players absent during the weekend.
Yea you definitely have been consistent in what you expected to happen and how you acted, it's just a slightly less belivable action than "I knew twilight would last long, I wanted a productive 12 hours with a lynch to discuss instead of wagon hemming and hawing until the eventual same conclusion"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:31:46 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.

Maybe sometimes. I don't know about you but I'm doing this thing while doing other more important things so the timing is generally going to be dictated by those other things and not this thing.
Yea but that's what I'm saying is what feels off about idp. Like even him asking what I want from him. Doesn't it seem like he was listening to us talk, heard me say that and then went well crap I should contribute, "what do you want from me". Not a hey here's my thought on the last thing that was said or damn sorry I'm not following every post as it's posted.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:32:08 pm
Note that I made no such assertions about how I expected the day to wind up until after Joseph made his claim.

No, my initial attitude was that the day was over and we'd get a flip and move on. In fact, I could dig up and quote where I basically said I did us all favor to end the day early instead of have us do a bunch of hasty posturing and assembling a lynch with half the players absent during the weekend.
Yea you definitely have been consistent in what you expected to happen and how you acted, it's just a slightly less belivable action than "I knew twilight would last long, I wanted a productive 12 hours with a lynch to discuss instead of wagon hemming and hawing until the eventual same conclusion"

Well, that all evolved from me trying out some humor to say I made inadvertently made D1 interesting right after complaining about how boring D1 is. I felt I had to defend it when schadd talked about his D1s are always epic displays of heroism and my epeen started shriveling.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 01:32:42 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.

Maybe sometimes. I don't know about you but I'm doing this thing while doing other more important things so the timing is generally going to be dictated by those other things and not this thing.
Yea but that's what I'm saying is what feels off about idp. Like even him asking what I want from him. Doesn't it seem like he was listening to us talk, heard me say that and then went well crap I should contribute, "what do you want from me". Not a hey here's my thought on the last thing that was said or damn sorry I'm not following every post as it's posted.

point taken
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 10, 2017, 01:34:23 pm
Any other game and we're all worried about assembling a lynch before deadline, especially with the weekend looming. I did us all a favor.

Oh, looky there.

I get that but there's a difference between hammering and quickhammering.

Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.

Maybe sometimes. I don't know about you but I'm doing this thing while doing other more important things so the timing is generally going to be dictated by those other things and not this thing.
Yea but that's what I'm saying is what feels off about idp. Like even him asking what I want from him. Doesn't it seem like he was listening to us talk, heard me say that and then went well crap I should contribute, "what do you want from me". Not a hey here's my thought on the last thing that was said or damn sorry I'm not following every post as it's posted.

My magic 8 ball told me mcmc will push an IDPTG lynch D2.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:34:45 pm
Robz/eevee/dylan/TWM will need to contribute to what has gone on when they catch up. I believe everyone else has posted since.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:46:28 pm
Andrew consistently having a scum read on me and still looking for scummy things I might be doing throughout our recent discussion and post flip feels super towny to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 01:57:31 pm
Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads
Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew

Revolution of reads
Got lynched: Joseph (wagon) mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Scummy scum(off wagon): ash, dylan, idp
Keeping an eye on you killers(on wagon): eevee, pps, robz, witherweaver
Do more: TWM
Townie: schadd, Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:03:10 pm
Witherweaver fos'd eevee pretty quickly, could be on wagon scum going after a townie quickly. I would bet this lynch has more townie on it because of how fast it went.

Probably the main reason I have suspicions of pps is because I remember in my scum games recently, me/jake/lalight had to all be on wagon for awhiiiile, we kept thinking we would have scum off wagon but the wagons would stall for so long we would all have to jump on eventually. This feels like townies honestly likeing this lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:03:54 pm
Where did everyone go...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 02:04:45 pm
don't have much left to say for toDay
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 02:08:09 pm
i don't even know if pps is scum, which is kind of the worst thing. it would be, like, a beneficial play if scum, but what else is new.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:12:00 pm
I'm curious what witherweaver thinks about all this he's been making a post for awhile now...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 02:12:36 pm
Witherweaver fos'd eevee pretty quickly, could be on wagon scum going after a townie quickly. I would bet this lynch has more townie on it because of how fast it went.

Probably the main reason I have suspicions of pps is because I remember in my scum games recently, me/jake/lalight had to all be on wagon for awhiiiile, we kept thinking we would have scum off wagon but the wagons would stall for so long we would all have to jump on eventually. This feels like townies honestly likeing this lynch.

I don't know about quickly.  The thought about Eevee was my initial reaction to Eevee's vote when it happened (sometime yesterday I think); I didn't say anything at the time but took mental note of it.

By the time I saw Andrew's L-1, PPS had already hammered, though I hadn't read it yet.  It made me feel a little more leery towards Eevee, and somewhat towards Andrew.

I decided to post in twilight for some record of what I was thinking.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 02:17:59 pm
That Joseph went poof after supposedly resurrecting himself immediately after the lynch looks super duper fishy to me. I mean, when I am scum I troll the twilight for the lulz, but most do exactly what he just did.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 02:19:38 pm
I would kind of like the Eevee's, Robz's, and Calimitas' of the world to be here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 02:19:56 pm
Or maybe Calamitas isn't in this game. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 02:20:43 pm
Dylan hasn't been around.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:21:50 pm
That Joseph went poof after supposedly resurrecting himself immediately after the lynch looks super duper fishy to me. I mean, when I am scum I troll the twilight for the lulz, but most do exactly what he just did.

So while I agree and would love for this to mean we found scum...Joseph is not the best ic in the world. Thks ckmig from scum who benefited from him not posting like at all the game he was an ic ub the whole time. So Joseph just ramble your thoughts, we will take stuff out of it once we got ya flip.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:22:29 pm
Or maybe Calamitas isn't in this game.
Yea he's not, TWM is though and he's kinda a people person version of cal
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:23:53 pm
Vote: Joseph

Reread him, I could definitely see a scum narrative in his voting history (first voted for ashersky, when the tide turned against lynching ash, changed his position to "town because of his antics). Nothing really struck to me as towny in his posting either, hard to put a finger on it but I don't get the impression he is trying to figure things out, more that he wants a lynch through that isn't him. This claim question strengthens that impression, I think town is more concerned with concealing their role because it's better for town regardless of your role, whereas scum might be more anxious to claim because they think it might help get them out of hot water. Basically, for town one can think "well, if I die, it might actually help us win if it happens in the right way", whereas scum MUST avoid getting lynched day 1, because if they go down their team is in very big trouble.


L-2, if I do my math right.

This is eevee's vote that either didn't like, it is posted 2 hours after a vote count and before the vote count eevee said he was going to reread andrew(which witherweaver asked for opinions on)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:25:06 pm
This is eevee's vote that eitherwitherweaver didn't like, it is posted 2 hours after a vote count and before the vote count eevee said he was going to reread andrew(which witherweaver asked for opinions on)
Ftfm
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:34:57 pm
So idp was viewing the thread for awhile and then peaced out. Man this whose online thing is usefull.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 02:36:37 pm
So idp was viewing the thread for awhile and then peaced out. Man this whose online thing is usefull.

Also if your town, don't get mad at me, just collect your thoughts and post whenever you've got time. If your scum get scared, I'm watching you!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 pm
Busy day, sorry.

It looks like I've missed a whole lot of action, including a lynch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 10, 2017, 03:43:10 pm
I am NOT caught up
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 03:43:56 pm
I am NOT caught up

Grats you got lynched.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 03:58:00 pm
Wowww! Never had this happen before, I'm excited.

Joseph, sorry for being the catalyst for the mislynch. Catching up now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 10, 2017, 03:58:57 pm
This

scum can't be governor you drongus
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 03:59:03 pm
I like the Gov using it on himself.  It's neg utility usually.

Likely kill target tonight, which negates some stuff.

Wait, if the Gov uses it on himself and gets NKed, isn't that a waste for the UB? It doesn't make the UB an IC as scum can just counterclaim, right? So wouldn't it be better for the Gov to not use his shot so the UB inherits it?

There's an argument for that, yes.
Town points for Andrew for trying to figure things like that out. Scum maybe wouldn't think to try to figure out those scenarios.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 03:59:45 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?
This sums up my feelings for the hammer. I know PPS has done these earlier as town, has he done it as scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 10, 2017, 04:02:39 pm
The PPS hammer is whatever, sure, he does this as town.

I actually find his over-the-top not reading the setup stuff a little suspect. He's trying way too hard to not know what's going on.

So I find him very scummy, actually.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:04:05 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 04:06:25 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.

You do know Joseph could still be lying. So eevee also didn't read the setup lol
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:08:28 pm

I think a Restless Spirit should claim.
rs by design doesn't want to claim i think


You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1? Damn, I'm really gonna have to step it up when I design that game...
ic is like the least interesting person to talk to. wagon information is trash because joseph is lynchbait and no town's could have actually made a reasonable judgement (i voted him for funzies). meanwhile, we had two wagons at all, one of them was kinda cool and the other shot its wad after 10 seconds. no exciting deadline scramble, no interesting decisions, no nothing. and a massive PR became sand.


my 3 most recent D1s have set a massive standard: i lynched scum, i almost defended myself from scum, and i vigged scum. you decided the coolest thing that could happen is an informationless, reactionless quickhammer that nobody else pushed/defended
This post strikes to me as a little scummy as well. I might be biased about the quality of today as it's pretty cool to me we actually used a governor, but this proclaiming your excellence I think gives scum more of a mandate to make bold moves later, as you quote back to this post showing how good you are. Like, I'm in a constant state of confusion and self-doubt trying to figure this out, it doesn't ring genuine to me when someone is saying "just listen to me because if I don't know who is scum yet, I'm sure I'll know soon" (whereas scum of course doesn't doubt their reads or abilities like town, because they know).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 04:14:00 pm
scummy from who? Schaad? I think he is just bummed that he didn't get to do more stuff d1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:21:54 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.
This doesn't make any sense to me (the top part). You think people are running up wagons too loosely, and your solution is to wield the hammer every chance you get? How does that make any sense?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:25:03 pm
Hey schadd and pps do you feel like we are having a conversation and idp is sitting in the corner of the room adding random interjections?

Those people always seem scummy to me.
I like this point. Definitely feel like scum often ends up doing that, because they are scared of presenting original ideas, but want to seem like they are participating and contributing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 04:25:45 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.
This doesn't make any sense to me (the top part). You think people are running up wagons too loosely, and your solution is to wield the hammer every chance you get? How does that make any sense?

If a wild hammer can appear at any moment it makes people slow down with the wagon creation. I am not a fan of the quick runups just to force claims. I think it is a scum tactic that town frequently initiates and perpetuates as if it is okay and I'm punishing it with my vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 04:27:11 pm
There's this forced etiquette that we announce L-1 (which is good) and intent to hammer (which can be good). I think it is overused and easily exploited. It seems, especially D1 all we do is try to runup wagons to out PRs. I am the antidote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:29:18 pm
That Joseph went poof after supposedly resurrecting himself immediately after the lynch looks super duper fishy to me. I mean, when I am scum I troll the twilight for the lulz, but most do exactly what he just did.
Yeah, the disappearance definitely makes me feel like this is a possibility as well. One can hope.

This post-lynch scramble is strengthening my townread on mcmc. A lot of opinions I find myself reading and thinking "that's good point", and they aren't safe and obvious points, but things I hadn't thought of myself at least.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:30:14 pm
Or maybe Calamitas isn't in this game.
Yea he's not, TWM is though and he's kinda a people person version of cal
I have absolutely zero recollection of TWM making any posts that aren't "sorry, still busy, I'll get to it". I guess he has been busy still, then?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:31:22 pm
Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.

You do know Joseph could still be lying. So eevee also didn't read the setup lol
Guilty.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 04:32:40 pm
I think PPS hammered because he was bored. Or because he was scum thinking he was being too scummy to be scum. I don't see any other reason to do it.
All wrong. I'm on a crusade for one. In this crusade I collect hammers and I make people more wary of running up wagons just for funsies.

Second to that I thought he would probably flip scum.
This doesn't make any sense to me (the top part). You think people are running up wagons too loosely, and your solution is to wield the hammer every chance you get? How does that make any sense?

If a wild hammer can appear at any moment it makes people slow down with the wagon creation. I am not a fan of the quick runups just to force claims. I think it is a scum tactic that town frequently initiates and perpetuates as if it is okay and I'm punishing it with my vote.
Why would you want to punish town, even one that you perceive to make mistakes?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 04:35:15 pm
Yea the more and more pps answers about why he hammered when and how he did, the more I find it scummy. He is continually explaining it though and that's townie.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 04:37:06 pm
Or maybe Calamitas isn't in this game.
Yea he's not, TWM is though and he's kinda a people person version of cal
I have absolutely zero recollection of TWM making any posts that aren't "sorry, still busy, I'll get to it". I guess he has been busy still, then?

Yea, this was okay when he was my scumpartner lurking and not getting called out. He pretty much missed an entire day which is bad.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 04:53:01 pm
Yea the more and more pps answers about why he hammered when and how he did, the more I find it scummy. He is continually explaining it though and that's townie.

It's not like I started out of the blue on this game. This is at least 4 games in the making. It's been fleshed out quite a bit more in the previous games so I'm not feeling overly compulsed to make the case all over again. Basically, If I'm in the game then there ought not be willy nilly wagon run-ups because there is a hammer waiting. The first couple of times I tried this I announced intent to hammer at like L-2 or L-3 or even called a player that was obviously about to get runup and stated I'd hammer if he went L-1. In those games it sure seemed a towny enough thing to do. I suppose just doing it unannounced is quite a bit less towny but the meta is the same and the reasons too.

For example, I always call a scum team D1. It's what I do. I used to make a point of it, now I just do it because it's what I have to do in order to be complete as a person. I guess the transition to consciously doing it vs unconsciously doing it can be difficult for the outside observer, especially one who wasn't there for the evolution of it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 04:55:31 pm
Yea the more and more pps answers about why he hammered when and how he did, the more I find it scummy. He is continually explaining it though and that's townie.

Scum likes to explain things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 10, 2017, 05:42:52 pm
anyone want to give me a tl;dr for what just happened?

I've got about 5 minutes and see loads of things happening.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 10, 2017, 05:51:09 pm
Ok. I at least know what happened now. I see little incentive to keep posting reads and stuff here for town. I feel like any further information we have can be saved til Day2 without letting mafia benefit from it going into the night.

I think the more OMGUS we give to mafia going into night the better.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 10, 2017, 05:51:58 pm
oops, wrong acronym there. Not OMGUS, but WIFOM. You'd think with my username I would have remembered that better.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 10, 2017, 06:16:18 pm
Ok. I at least know what happened now. I see little incentive to keep posting reads and stuff here for town. I feel like any further information we have can be saved til Day2 without letting mafia benefit from it going into the night.

I think the more OMGUS we give to mafia going into night the better.
I feel this is veryyy scummy. For town, the risk of unnecessarily giving mafia information should be far outweighed by the worry of dying in the night and never getting to say your piece, right? Like, aren't you worried that your scarce contributions might trigger a trigger-happy vig, even if you think scum would likely go for someone who has been more active?

It holds especially true to you, as you haven't had a chance to say anything all day! A penny for your thoughts, man. Better give them while you can, you never know. If you have insights that might be that relevant to scum, town is very interested in hearing them as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2017, 07:11:34 pm
Kill target speculation is good wifom to play.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 10, 2017, 08:07:08 pm
Sorry everyone. Last couple days have sucked.

If it were anyone but pps to deliver a quickhammer like that, I would instantly think they were scum. But that is something town!pps does, like he said.

I really do hope Joseph actually flips scum and isn't the governor, but assuming he is, I think he should use the shot if he still has the choice. There's no guarantee that the UB will be NKd or have to claim until too late in the game to use it.

I'll have to reread this game day later when I have more time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 10, 2017, 08:48:59 pm
Kill target speculation is good wifom to play.
me me me me me!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 08:55:02 pm
I thought Governor let us lynch again.

Don't think so.
Nope, it causes a no kill.

I haven't used it yet (I was going to, but I think it may be better to give to UB?)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Joseph2302 on March 10, 2017, 08:57:06 pm
And I'm town for those that are doubting.
Been busy, will see if there's anything useful I can say this twilight.
But going bed now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 10, 2017, 09:00:41 pm
I think it's better to use it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 10:07:45 pm
Yes, it's definitely better to use it, imo.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 10:11:44 pm
There is some chance of a protective town role existing or a town RB that gets lucky that brings us into D2 with no deaths whatsoever.

I think the Governor things starts to lose positive utility the longer it is in the game.

The downside though, is that Joseph is pretty well the default NK and once he goes the UB inherits VT. So, there's that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 10, 2017, 10:12:16 pm
And I'm town for those that are doubting.
Been busy, will see if there's anything useful I can say this twilight.
But going bed now.

Need reads ffs.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 10, 2017, 10:25:03 pm
yea Joseph you should absolutely use the governor, we have 9T/3M and dropping to 8T/3M still allows 3 lynches. If you don't use it we get a ub thats a 1 shot gov(not great) and drop to 7T/3M and only have 2 lynches left.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 10, 2017, 11:18:03 pm
Thread locked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 10, 2017, 11:21:03 pm
8+1, 13+2, 3+1, 21+3+1, 13+5, 21, 21+2, 8, 1, 21+2

Joseph2302 has been lynched! He was  2504730781961, the 1-shot Governor!

Night 1 starts.
Please submit all night actions within 34+13+1 hours. Day 3 will start on Monday, March 13th at 13-1am forum time.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 13, 2017, 01:04:10 am
21+3, 21-2, 13, 13+2, 21+5, 21+1, 13-2, 21+3, 13-2, 3, 13+5!

ashersky was killed during the night! He was 6656593304481317393598839952151746590023553382130993248, the Vanilla Townie!

Day 2 starts now and ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 13, 2017, 03:43:31 am
21-1, 2, 2, 13+3+1, 21+3+1, 8, 13+3, 21+3!

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (10): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant


With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 08:19:52 am
Genius play by ashersky.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 08:22:13 am
that makes sense
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 08:22:31 am
so our scum team is probably bad
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 08:50:18 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 08:54:08 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 08:56:22 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop

?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:04:04 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop

?
first of all, ub is a town asset even if its inheritance doesn't work.


second of all, take another look
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 09:04:25 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop

?
Joseph is not listed in the vote counts, means he didn't use his shot. Right?


Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 09:04:46 am
so our scum team is probably bad
what makes you think this?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 09:08:15 am
So awesome, ashersky's plan to look like the ub worked, and Joseph died without using his shot. This is all good other than the fact that we haven't caught scum yet.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:15:05 am
Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.

white noise


so our scum team is probably bad
what makes you think this?
they were wrong about ash. i mean, i didn't think about it that hard (smiley face with halo emoji) but i didn't think he was ub.


i guess he was an okay kill independently of that
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 09:18:59 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop

?
Joseph is not listed in the vote counts, means he didn't use his shot. Right?


Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.

He's dead, so he didn't use his shot.  Or else I don't understand Governor.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 09:19:45 am
I feel Vote: Eevee is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:22:17 am
i also feel that feeling


vote: eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 09:32:13 am
i also feel that feeling


vote: eevee
I feel Vote: Eevee is the right thing to do.

Why and why?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 09:33:26 am
Yes
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 09:36:24 am
Well done, ash. Not that it really matters, since the UB inherited a use-up governor shot.
nop

?
Joseph is not listed in the vote counts, means he didn't use his shot. Right?


Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.

Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 09:36:33 am
Yes

Vote: WW
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:37:29 am

Why and why?
he made a comment that was unhelpful other than making it seem like he wasn't the one planning the nightkill.


i should go ahead and make the case of my thoughts yesterDay at some point
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 09:39:09 am
Yes

Vote: WW

Is this what scum you does?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 09:43:01 am

Why and why?
he made a comment that was unhelpful other than making it seem like he wasn't the one planning the nightkill.


i should go ahead and make the case of my thoughts yesterDay at some point

Hmm if I didn't have such a strong town read on you from yesterday I would vote you. I thought your post about the scum team being stupid seemed a little bit like a cover post for "darn that should have been obvious" also you now stating eevee is trying to make it look like he wasn't planning the nightkill makes me think even more that you are overly concerned about people's opinion of who made the nightkill.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 09:45:26 am
Seems like a stretch.

Schadd does seem too-townie, though, which is disconcerning.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 09:48:02 am
Vote Count 1.final

mcmcsalot (3): Dylan32, ashersky, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5+2):, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it took 5+2 to lynch. Twilight ends at 13-2.13+2pm FT.

Lynch wagon with dead townies.

Also since I'm town this game I'm not just going to suggest it and then let it go since everyone is lazy. If someone could do a post count that would be just super awesome and helpful...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:49:33 am

Hmm
i'm not sure i follow

Kill target speculation is good wifom to play.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 09:50:54 am
Dylan, IDP, TWM: Has to be scum there, unless everybody is off wagon.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:24:33 am

Why and why?
he made a comment that was unhelpful other than making it seem like he wasn't the one planning the nightkill.


i should go ahead and make the case of my thoughts yesterDay at some point
Which comment?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:25:19 am
I can do a post count, one minute.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 10:31:11 am

Which comment?

Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.
mcmc and pps did it as well, yours sounded the most politician-y to me. i am leaning scum on pps rn as well
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:31:55 am
schadd: 78
Robz: 26
Eevee: 43
mcmc: 76
IDPTG: 26
PPS: 69
WW: 70
Dylan: 15
TWM: 15
Andrew: 34



Surprised to see WW so high, Dylan so low. Don't remember a lot from Andrew despite the middling post count.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:33:26 am

Which comment?

Very well done ash, drawing the nightkill as the VT is a heroic feat.
mcmc and pps did it as well, yours sounded the most politician-y to me. i am leaning scum on pps rn as well
I think others can attest I try to make a point of being nice to people and giving credit where I think it's due regardless of my alignment. Especially true for ashersky because we've had some bad blood in the past.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 10:40:00 am
Yeah, I guess. But I do think it's likely ash is simply the real UB.
eevee, would you like to comment on this?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:45:05 am
Yeah, I guess. But I do think it's likely ash is simply the real UB.
eevee, would you like to comment on this?
Very glad to have been very wrong! Total misread from my part, you guys were all the voice of reason.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 10:48:31 am
schadd: 78
Mcmc:76
Ww: 70
Pps: 69
Eevee: 43
Andrew 34
Robz: 26
IDPTG: 26
Dylan: 15
TWM: 15
Yay! So as robz pointed out unless all scum was on wagon one of idp, dylan, and TWM has to be scum. They also have extremely low content.

I think vote: idp is the most likely, he has been around and lurky, I would guess dylan as another scum as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 10:50:45 am
Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 10:52:10 am
Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 10:55:08 am
Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 13, 2017, 10:58:54 am
21-2, 13+2, 21+1, 13+2, 21-1, 8+1, 13+1, 8-1. 13, 21, 3, 8, 21+2, 13+2, 21+2.

Vote Count 2.1

Eevee (2): Witherweaver, schadd
IDontPlayThisGame (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): pingpongsam
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, Eevee

Not Voting (3+1): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, The_Wine_Merchant


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 11:13:04 am
schadd: 78
Mcmc:76
Ww: 70
Pps: 69
Eevee: 43
Andrew 34
Robz: 26
IDPTG: 26
Dylan: 15
TWM: 15
Yay! So as robz pointed out unless all scum was on wagon one of idp, dylan, and TWM has to be scum. They also have extremely low content.

I think vote: idp is the most likely, he has been around and lurky, I would guess dylan as another scum as well.

I've been able to read the thread more than I've been able to post in it.

Yeah, I guess. But I do think it's likely ash is simply the real UB.
eevee, would you like to comment on this?
Very glad to have been very wrong! Total misread from my part, you guys were all the voice of reason.

I don't particularly like this although I'm having trouble putting my finger on why. The "voice of reason" bit seems like a strange choice of words but it doesn't seem inherently anything to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 11:16:30 am
I don't particularly like this although I'm having trouble putting my finger on why. The "voice of reason" bit seems like a strange choice of words but it doesn't seem inherently anything to me.
Had I been right, I'd totally be gloating about it. Only fair I beat myself up a little now that I wasn't.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 11:58:34 am
Yes

Vote: WW

Vote: mcmc

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

I mean, maybe it's just me but I like to see some substance from votes.

Also, I like Robz's idea of there being scum off wagon. There's no way the whole scum team was on the lynch wagon yesterday. I'll do a reread.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 11:59:19 am
Not sure what happened to the first sentence I typed in my last post. I just commented on there being a lot of votes which little to back them up, which I personally don't like.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 12:03:07 pm
Also, IDPTG, TWM, and Dylan were pretty much the lurkiest people yesterday. It doesn't give them a pass but they were likely absent at critical times. Ok reread now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 12:04:06 pm
I mean, maybe it's just me but I like to see some substance from votes.

Me too. I voted WW because of the lack of substance to his vote, actually.

But then I voted for Dylan because we should find the scum off wagon, and I like Dylan more than IDP for... reasons.

Mostly for the reason that mcmc preferred IDP and it made me uncomfortable.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 12:05:57 pm
Yes

Vote: WW

Vote: mcmc

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

I mean, maybe it's just me but I like to see some substance from votes.

Also, I like Robz's idea of there being scum off wagon. There's no way the whole scum team was on the lynch wagon yesterday. I'll do a reread.

Simple, I already had suspicions on mcmc and now I know that his wagon yesterday had 3 confirmed (to me) town on it. Also, mcmc was on wagon for the Jacob mislynch (yeah, so was I but we're talking about from my perspective).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 12:21:17 pm
Ok Dylan first. Here are his last posts before the lynch yesterday:

I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.

Yeah this is how I took it also.

And lol TWM. Early I try to post little bits of reads so people know where I stand unless I see something I think is really strong evidence. Then I will post a lot more. More often than not, I'm incorrect about whatever conclusion I come to when that happens though, sadly (i.e. schadd circa squid girl, gkrieg circa stranger things). The only thing I think I've actually gotten right recently was protecting gkrieg as the bodyguard in squid girl mafia. Nailed it. not that it helped much...

Mcmc. If the DAMA still stands, are you scum?

(Not sure what DAMA is)

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

This makes me think he's town. I know other people (WW and mcmc... as usual) were a little suspicious of this:

So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

I do not like this post.

He actually meant this:

This one:

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

And then:

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Dylan, would you like to explain this?

I would actually like to know how you(dylan) came to think this as well.

Again, I think this is pretty damn towny to me. Though I could see it as new scum grasping at straws to find a case (or bus his partner).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 12:26:56 pm
DAMA = Drunk, ask me anything
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 12:29:53 pm
Ok I just reread IDPTG from the beginning of D1 through twilight and found nothing of note. His posting was so sporadic, there were a couple setup comments about the UB, a couple comments about not lynching ash, a couple "stop joking" posts, and that's pretty much it. Null.

DAMA = Drunk, ask me anything

Right, thanks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 12:31:43 pm
Why is that towny? I think scum is more likely to throw vague suspicions around (and I also think that regardless of his alignment mcmc probably just didn't see the question, I don't think scummcmc-would try to dodge like that).

I actually reread Dylan before my vote, but just didn't have time to type a longer post. I saw low activity (most of the 15 posts were not game-related) non-towny voting, I particularly disagreed with him suspecting mcmc as the main contribution because I thought mcmc looked towny all day.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 12:32:08 pm
Ok I just reread IDPTG from the beginning of D1 through twilight and found nothing of note. His posting was so sporadic, there were a couple setup comments about the UB, a couple comments about not lynching ash, a couple "stop joking" posts, and that's pretty much it. Null.

DAMA = Drunk, ask me anything

Right, thanks.
At this point, I don't think "no posts of note" should make someone null anymore.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 12:45:27 pm
So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

This post is voteable (word I just made up)

Vote: Dylan

Another vote with no content. Lame.

Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

He didn't in the game I was in with him. I asked schadd to prod him about 5 times in my personal QT.

This is interesting. To anyone else who knows scum!mcmc, is this true?

based purely off of memory and then going back to the list of players, I am leaning toward one of the following: ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash?

So I guess those are people I should look at more specifically

I think this is a list of people he wouldn't mind lynching? Scummy.

Ok. I at least know what happened now. I see little incentive to keep posting reads and stuff here for town. I feel like any further information we have can be saved til Day2 without letting mafia benefit from it going into the night.

I think the more OMGUS we give to mafia going into night the better.

oops, wrong acronym there. Not OMGUS, but WIFOM. You'd think with my username I would have remembered that better.

Not sure how I feel about this. Telling town to stop discussing things is scummy, but I think what he's saying is it was post-lynch and the damage had been done, and there's nothing town can do until D2 with further discussion whereas scum can use it to better narrow down who they want to kill N1 (though it looks like that didn't go so well). I think this is more pro-town than anything.

Slight scum read on TWM but there's so little to go on. Most of his other posts were one sentence, a few apologizing for not being around.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 12:49:02 pm
Why is that towny? I think scum is more likely to throw vague suspicions around (and I also think that regardless of his alignment mcmc probably just didn't see the question, I don't think scummcmc-would try to dodge like that).

I actually reread Dylan before my vote, but just didn't have time to type a longer post. I saw low activity (most of the 15 posts were not game-related) non-towny voting, I particularly disagreed with him suspecting mcmc as the main contribution because I thought mcmc looked towny all day.

There are better ways to create vague suspicion. I don't think part of any scum's plan, experienced or not, is to check the online status and report on it. Town all day.

Not sure what you're referring to in your second point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 12:53:09 pm
My vote on Dylan (and it's reasons).

Why do you think town is more likely to do online status policing than scum?

I don't know if there is any precedent, but my intuition would be that scum would be more likely to be on the lookout for these kind of "mishaps" that could make someone suspicious than town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 01:12:00 pm
My vote on Dylan (and it's reasons).

Why do you think town is more likely to do online status policing than scum?

I don't know if there is any precedent, but my intuition would be that scum would be more likely to be on the lookout for these kind of "mishaps" that could make someone suspicious than town.

So you're voting Dylan because he thought mcmc was scum and you disagreed? What?

Sure they're on the lookout but I would think they're also more wary about the cases they make and I don't think they would be so quick to point out something so negligible. Although I guess there's an argument to made that if they were so easily baited by ash then they're also capable of something like this.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 01:27:08 pm
Yes

Vote: WW

Vote: mcmc

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

I mean, maybe it's just me but I like to see some substance from votes.

Also, I like Robz's idea of there being scum off wagon. There's no way the whole scum team was on the lynch wagon yesterday. I'll do a reread.

Simple, I already had suspicions on mcmc and now I know that his wagon yesterday had 3 confirmed (to me) town on it. Also, mcmc was on wagon for the Jacob mislynch (yeah, so was I but we're talking about from my perspective).
How is dylan confirmed town to you?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 01:54:48 pm
I don't know how much I support it, but I could get behind a Dylan lynch. I agree with the assumption that not every scum was on the mislynch wagon, so {me, Dylan, TWM} seems like a good place to look for now. If we take that assumption to be true, there's at least a 50% of lynching scum randomly or 33% if you include me in that pool (and obviously I'm not). My understanding is that a 50-50 lynch is good for town.

As for why Dylan over TWM, his post about mcmc's online status would be a strike in my eyes regardless, but he also cited a question that was asked conditionally and I find it hard to believe it was asked seriously. I'm sure most of you haven't read it any time recently, but the f.ds mafia terminology thread includes the DAMA term with a note that people may admit to being scum. It's a ridiculous question and a ridiculous response to it not being answered.

I intended to find a little more against Dylan, but reviewing his posts didn't leave me with much. Similarly, a review of TWM went the same. So I guess I could get behind either of them. However, this requires accepting the assumption that there's at least one scum in the three of us.

PPE: 1 - I agree with mcmc. Why is Dylan confirmed town, pps?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 01:58:50 pm
I think it's worth noting that scum may have seen three lurkers off-wagon and all stayed on wagon with the intent of seeing one of us lynched. We're also the three least experienced players (IIRC).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 13, 2017, 02:22:01 pm
I'm voting Dylan for the low activity combined with the low amount of meaningful content. From my perspective as a townie who didn't agree with the case on mcmc, I'm a tad more suspicious of someone who wanted to make that lynch.

It's likely there is at least 1 scum off the wagon, but it's also likely there is at least in 1 scum in any subset of 3 people at this point. While I think IDPTG and WM are good options to look at, I don't think we should put that much stock into only them being off-wagon. Crazier things have happened.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 02:31:42 pm
idptg, could you explain to me why it would make sense that one scum is of wagon?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 02:34:02 pm
PPE: 1 - I agree with mcmc. Why is Dylan confirmed town, pps?

He isn't, but I am to me. My point being when mcmc wagon was a growin' and I was on it it wouldn't really go anywhere and got poo poo'd for being too early to get so big blah blah.

So we mislynched Jacob instead.

That mcmc wagon was over half town for sure (to me). Makes me think it stagnated and was derailed by skim skam scum, namely mcmc hisscumself.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 02:43:18 pm
PPE: 1 - I agree with mcmc. Why is Dylan confirmed town, pps?

He isn't, but I am to me. My point being when mcmc wagon was a growin' and I was on it it wouldn't really go anywhere and got poo poo'd for being too early to get so big blah blah.

So we mislynched Jacob instead.

That mcmc wagon was over half town for sure (to me). Makes me think it stagnated and was derailed by skim skam scum, namely mcmc hisscumself.

Yay, this here kids is the beginning of what we call a "case". I don't even mind that it's on me, pps now if you go do the second leg and figure out who poo poo'd my wagon and pushed the tide toward Joseph. Who moved between the two wagons and why. Then if it still points towards me being scummy I can try to defend myself and help explain things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 02:45:47 pm
PPE: 1 - I agree with mcmc. Why is Dylan confirmed town, pps?

He isn't, but I am to me. My point being when mcmc wagon was a growin' and I was on it it wouldn't really go anywhere and got poo poo'd for being too early to get so big blah blah.

So we mislynched Jacob instead.

That mcmc wagon was over half town for sure (to me). Makes me think it stagnated and was derailed by skim skam scum, namely mcmc hisscumself.

Yay, this here kids is the beginning of what we call a "case". I don't even mind that it's on me, pps now if you go do the second leg and figure out who poo poo'd my wagon and pushed the tide toward Joseph. Who moved between the two wagons and why. Then if it still points towards me being scummy I can try to defend myself and help explain things.

Um, you were first on the Jacob wagon... but I'll follow up on the rest.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 02:47:51 pm
Actually, I think Eevee started it, he just didn't end up on it... I believe mcmc was second on it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 02:51:06 pm
eevee definitely fought the mcmc wagon. I dunno if eevee partners that hard. I know I sure as hell do not, like ever, never, ever, not even a little bit sometimes. In fact, I'm such an anti partner that my scumpartnertell is the one guy I'm just not talking about or interacting with but still willing to vote. This is so much the case that I really never consider that other players would do such a thing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 02:52:53 pm
Eevee L-2'd Joseph although he initially forsook being first on the vote list because it was "leftover RVS".

I'm not sure scum does that, either.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 04:22:38 pm
Vote Count 1.3

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, Robz888
Eevee (2): schadd, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): Eevee

Not Voting (2): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

Around this time I make some defenses of myself and Robz/eevee/witherweaver/schaad all defend me in some way or another for what I think are good reasons.

Dylan, pps, and Andrew all post reasons they find me scummy.

Next ashersky and I get into a bit and I begin to omgus him and witherweaver and robz both point out how much this looks like town on town and that they don't want to lynch either of us. This almond with TWM coming in and townreading me as well seems to stall my wagon and I turn away from ash toward Joseph for being unhelpful and scummy.

Eevee suggests looking into the lowcontent posters but doesn't and then asks what the case is on Joseph.

Vote Count 1.3+1

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, pingpongsam
Eevee (1): schadd
Joseph2302 (2): Eevee, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Vote: mcmx

L-2
I believe this is the height of my wagon. And right after this robz/ww/schadd/eevee vote for Joseph. This feel a ton like townies honestly not liking the wagon on me getting so close to lynch without another option and so the person I'm pushing makes sense to join. This is what evens our wagons out.

It is then with this vote that andrew finally changes his opinion and moves his vote away from me and onto Joseph, quickly followed by pps who hammers a few posts after having said he would agree to disagree about my alignment.

The real people who had strange inorganic movements here are andrew and pps. The issue is that Joseph was acting increasingly scummy so it's very possible that's the actual moments that town!andrew and town!pps had had enough.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 04:38:29 pm
I don't currently disagree with your analysis. I'm still voting you because it was originally a good idea and then the fact that out of 5 voters on you yesterday 3 are confirmed town for me.

That doesn't mean you are scum, though. If you are scum, you're playing a damned good game of it. As a a matter of fact, that was the original basis for my suspicion. Now, I do hate to get mislynched when I'm driving the game which is why I've tried to back off on driving the game. But scum has to drive the game. What is especially good is for scum to get early attention so they can use it to drive the game exactly as you are doing; to color all the targets in an ambivalent light.

So, essentially, my vote is for your strict adherance to my SOP as scum. All that said, I made it my SOP precisely because it is damned near impossible to fully uncover as scum.
The only thing that keeps it from being carbon copy PPS is to have bussed the shit out of your partner but even then I only do that when they get themselves into hot water to start with and am more inclined to encourage them to bus me instead.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 04:46:06 pm
idptg, could you explain to me why it would make sense that one scum is of wagon?

Are you asking me to justify it or why I'm going with it?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 04:55:01 pm
Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

The issue being twm/dylan/eevee could also be the scum team with eevee buddying me much the way I buddied faust recently, get an active townie to push lynches for you, didn't come to much bigger conclusions than anyone else, and have his scum partners just lurk the entire day away.

Now being forced to pick between these types of narratives(these aren't the only two teams just examples) I absolutely don't want to punish active town andrew and pps for having slightly different opinions than me, especially because mine were wrong about Joseph in the first place. I would much rather lose to pps and andrew because twm and Dylan and idp just lurked way to hard as town. If that makes sense.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 13, 2017, 04:55:33 pm
I wouldn't go so far as to say I have you pegged as town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 13, 2017, 04:57:27 pm
I wouldn't go so far as to say I have you pegged as town.

Well you did advocate for me vs ash being town/town and did say you didn't want to lynch me yesterday. Though I guess it is true you haven't given me as much town cred as say eevee or even schadd have.

Either way I definitely think you are town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 05:16:31 pm
idptg, could you explain to me why it would make sense that one scum is of wagon?

Are you asking me to justify it or why I'm going with it?
justify it (i think? i want you to explain to me why you think it's likely that there was a scum off wagon in this game D1)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 05:18:31 pm
I wouldn't go so far as to say I have you pegged as town.

Ditto
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 05:36:50 pm
i would go so far!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 13, 2017, 05:46:40 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

He didn't in the game I was in with him. I asked schadd to prod him about 5 times in my personal QT.

This is interesting. To anyone else who knows scum!mcmc, is this true?

I can provide the link to my personal QT if that is allowed? But I think schadd could just attest that I asked mcmc to be prodded a lot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 13, 2017, 05:47:54 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

He didn't in the game I was in with him. I asked schadd to prod him about 5 times in my personal QT.

This is interesting. To anyone else who knows scum!mcmc, is this true?

I can provide the link to my personal QT if that is allowed? But I think schadd could just attest that I asked mcmc to be prodded a lot.

You can provide a link to your personal QT from a different game, if that game is now completed, sure.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 05:49:15 pm
I would say mcmc is pretty well within his posting length and frequency meta from my exposure to him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 13, 2017, 05:49:42 pm
Mcmc loves being scum, and will always put in more effort when he is scum.  Look at any scum QT with him in it, ever.

He didn't in the game I was in with him. I asked schadd to prod him about 5 times in my personal QT.

This is interesting. To anyone else who knows scum!mcmc, is this true?

I can provide the link to my personal QT if that is allowed? But I think schadd could just attest that I asked mcmc to be prodded a lot.

You can provide a link to your personal QT from a different game, if that game is now completed, sure.

OK. I would rather wait for schadd to give the ok as it is technically his QT that he created from his game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 13, 2017, 05:55:20 pm
Reading through today's content, I am not necessarily loving this push for one of me, dylan or IDPTG. I can somewhat see the narrative and understand, but that doesn't mean I like it as I worry that this is something scum wanted to push right out of the gate, even if it was true that one mafia was in this group. I think it somewhat unlikely that two out of the three of us are mafia (would mean dylan AND IDPTG are mafia for me).

If that is the case I think they might try and push the lynch away from their partner onto the other two and at the same time take the focus off the two mafia that were voting for Joseph.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 13, 2017, 05:59:32 pm
And I don't appreciate the title of lurking. That isn't a very fair representation of what I was doing, unless I am completely misunderstanding the word. I posted when I was on. I just wasn't on very often due to legitimate work/time constraints and when I was on it was for very little time that left wanting for having time to read through what were increasingly large volume of posts (which I am not complaining about, posting all you want to guys! Just don't be surprised if some of us have a hard time keeping up with the volume).

Look at my last game. When I am around I post and in abundance. I am getting a little frustrated that others are criticizing me for not being around when I have clearly done my best and have been completely within the rules of the game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 13, 2017, 06:02:54 pm
Not sure how I feel about this. Telling town to stop discussing things is scummy, but I think what he's saying is it was post-lynch and the damage had been done, and there's nothing town can do until D2 with further discussion whereas scum can use it to better narrow down who they want to kill N1 (though it looks like that didn't go so well). I think this is more pro-town than anything.

Slight scum read on TWM but there's so little to go on. Most of his other posts were one sentence, a few apologizing for not being around.

Wanted to respond to this as well. I think I got a bit confused about the Governor role. I was under the impression, for some reason, that mafia wouldn't be informed if the shot was going to be used during the night and that they would have to make a choice on whether they could shoot Joseph (who might already be dead) or not.

In that context I felt that everyone telling Joseph to use the shot and their reads and interpretations based off his wagon was clearly indicating to mafia that they would be fine to shoot them, so felt it wasn't a great idea to talk about it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 06:16:11 pm
OK. I would rather wait for schadd to give the ok as it is technically his QT that he created from his game.
go ahead. the link is accessible from the mod QT anyway
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 06:17:01 pm
also, yes, a lot of prods were indeed administered. i don't think this was the case in M94, however.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 06:56:10 pm
idptg, could you explain to me why it would make sense that one scum is of wagon?

Are you asking me to justify it or why I'm going with it?
justify it (i think? i want you to explain to me why you think it's likely that there was a scum off wagon in this game D1)

Robz kinda said it, mcmc went with it, Eevee agreed with the statistics, and it seemed logical enough to me. However, understand that I don't know anything about scum. I've never been scum. I've never even seen scum lynched. So my answer to "what's going through the mind of scum!(player)" is going to be more speculative than another person's would be.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 13, 2017, 06:58:12 pm
idptg, could you explain to me why it would make sense that one scum is of wagon?

Are you asking me to justify it or why I'm going with it?
justify it (i think? i want you to explain to me why you think it's likely that there was a scum off wagon in this game D1)

Robz kinda said it, mcmc went with it, Eevee agreed with the statistics, and it seemed logical enough to me. However, understand that I don't know anything about scum. I've never been scum. I've never even seen scum lynched. So my answer to "what's going through the mind of scum!(player)" is going to be more speculative than another person's would be.

Although that didn't answer your question.

I think it's likely that there was scum off wagon in this game D1 because I don't see why everyone would pile onto a mislynch this early. To me, that seems like a tactic for ending the game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 08:50:18 pm
Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

Oh so the last three people to vote on a mislynch are the scummiest. Cool, got it. Sarcasm aside though, I think pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Quote
It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

ash was a null read for me D1, why would you expect me to discourage people moving to him? That's misleading and is obviously an attempt to subtly encourage suspicion without committing to it heavily.

mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 13, 2017, 09:30:34 pm
... pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Not sure where I angled for that. Pretty clear it was to punish poor play. Pretty sure it's fairly anti town unless it hit scum which would be where I would angle for cred. It didn't so I'm not but you saying I am looks like trying to make me look scummier.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 13, 2017, 09:46:59 pm
You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1?
this sounds like arguing pro-town to me
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 13, 2017, 10:00:29 pm
... pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Not sure where I angled for that. Pretty clear it was to punish poor play. Pretty sure it's fairly anti town unless it hit scum which would be where I would angle for cred. It didn't so I'm not but you saying I am looks like trying to make me look scummier.

Yeah it's anti-town and obviously scummy, so you would count on everyone dismissing it as so blatantly scummy it had to come from town. A little WIFOM but it's not that much of a stretch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 12:02:31 am
You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1?
this sounds like arguing pro-town to me

Buddying kinda hard, aren't you?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 12:03:11 am
You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1?
this sounds like arguing pro-town to me

Buddying kinda hard, aren't you?

Ignore that. Misread what you quoted.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 07:31:42 am
You don't think improving our D2 start, having an IC to read for 12 hours, and having some wagon info to weigh in on beforehand isn't better than the typical D1?
this sounds like arguing pro-town to me

This was after the governor flip and I thought he had already used the shot. None of it turned out to be true. Also, the initial impetus was a tongue in cheek statement that you took extreme offense to so I was just clarifying that it wasn't all bad.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 07:32:25 am
... pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Not sure where I angled for that. Pretty clear it was to punish poor play. Pretty sure it's fairly anti town unless it hit scum which would be where I would angle for cred. It didn't so I'm not but you saying I am looks like trying to make me look scummier.

Yeah it's anti-town and obviously scummy, so you would count on everyone dismissing it as so blatantly scummy it had to come from town. A little WIFOM but it's not that much of a stretch.

If it's such an obvious scum ploy then I must be scum so why aren't you voting me?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 08:12:43 am
... pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Not sure where I angled for that. Pretty clear it was to punish poor play. Pretty sure it's fairly anti town unless it hit scum which would be where I would angle for cred. It didn't so I'm not but you saying I am looks like trying to make me look scummier.

Yeah it's anti-town and obviously scummy, so you would count on everyone dismissing it as so blatantly scummy it had to come from town. A little WIFOM but it's not that much of a stretch.

If it's such an obvious scum ploy then I must be scum so why aren't you voting me?

Because apparently we've all decided to lunch off wagon today, which sounds reasonable to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 08:13:39 am
Yes, lunch. Everybody get off the wagon. Lunch time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 08:33:05 am
vote: TWM

My biggest scumread of the three.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 08:47:31 am
mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 09:18:12 am
mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew

Again, mcmc is my #1 scum read. But if we're only lynching off wagon today, you would be my choice. Not sure what you mean by "this is what I was talking about".
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 14, 2017, 09:27:13 am
13+3, 3, 1, 8-1, 13+1, 5+1, 3, 13+3, 13-2, 3.

Vote Count 2.2

Eevee (2): Witherweaver, schadd
IDontPlayThisGame (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): pingpongsam
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, Eevee
The_Wine_Merchant (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 10:08:17 am
So I look at that vote count and think okay I'm going to move my vote to be more helpful. Robz and eevee are on the person I am most likely to move my vote to, but schaad and witherweaver are the more townie players I want to sheep(there post counts are at the top with me vs. robz and eevee in a more scummy actilurking spot)

So what's the case against eevee? Also if ww and schadd could give opinions on if they would lynch idp or dylan. I'll respond to any quesntons you guys have as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 10:09:50 am
would lynch idptg. not interested in dylan yet, he has been very off my radar this game (though this may be a bad thing)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 14, 2017, 10:10:13 am
Eevee I just did not like from yesterday. 

IDP I would do.. my scum read on him cooled yesterday, but did not shift to town.

Dylan I don't have any impression on.. I can't actually recall anything he's done.  I would lynch there.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 10:18:24 am
Eevee I just did not like from yesterday. 

IDP I would do.. my scum read on him cooled yesterday, but did not shift to town.

Dylan I don't have any impression on.. I can't actually recall anything he's done.  I would lynch there.

What didn't you like about Eevee? Just the vote?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 14, 2017, 10:23:38 am
I think I'm suspected for actilurking in every single game. I guess my playstyle is full of fluff? The timezone difference makes it so I'm often catching up on what was talked about last night, not sure if that's a factor.

I think Robz has been remarkably unremarkable this game. Don't remember him getting any suspicion himself or being a leading force in suspecting someone else, which is unusual.

Andrew seems more aggressive today than yesterday, which I think is good. Makes him easier to catch if he is scum at least, he is putting down solid opinions all the time. Would be nice to hear what Dylan thinks of the suspicion him (in itself or contrasted to other lower posts), or who he'd want to lynch. Generally I would encourage people to be voting for someone, we are very spread apart at this point, getting everyone's voice heard would help concentrating our efforts.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 10:24:24 am
mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew

Again, mcmc is my #1 scum read. But if we're only lynching off wagon today, you would be my choice. Not sure what you mean by "this is what I was talking about".

There is no set rule that we have to lynch off wagon. I can understand why that might be an idea to at least look at, but you are taking it as a rule.

There are 10 players alive. 3 that were off wagon and 7 that were on. I personally think it somewhat unlikely that more than one mafia was off wagon (from my perspective that would mean it would have to be Dylan and IDPTG, which certainly could be possible, but I think rather unlikely). So that is a 1/3 (0.33) chance (1/2 of two from my perspective, but I think it makes more sense to look at it from a strictly neutral position when trying to do these numbers) at best as there is still a decent chance the number of scum off wagon is zero.

As for on wagon it is likely either 3/7 (0.42) or 2/7 (0.28) that are mafia. So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 10:28:23 am
I can understand why that might be an idea to at least look at, but you are taking it as a rule.
yes, i was concerned idptg was doing this as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 10:28:45 am
So sorry schadd and witherweaver, zero of my eevee scum alarms are ringing, his defense is exactly what I would have said.

Twm on the other hand is increasingly unhelpful which I find interesting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 14, 2017, 10:36:08 am
Eevee I just did not like from yesterday. 

IDP I would do.. my scum read on him cooled yesterday, but did not shift to town.

Dylan I don't have any impression on.. I can't actually recall anything he's done.  I would lynch there.

What didn't you like about Eevee? Just the vote?

Yeah, it looked to me like scum explaining their way onto a mislynch. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 10:37:14 am
Eevee was the primary mover from the mcmc wagon to the Joseph wagon yesterday. I'm not sure what everyone else is considering him for but that is the most solid piece of evidence.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 10:37:25 am
So the whole on wagon/off wagon thing isn't just that scum doesn't like being on wagon as in most games. In this game we pivoted to looking off wagon because of how Joseph's wagon occurred.

Twm keeps stating it's unlikely that 2 scum are off wagon because to him that would mean idp and dylan have to be scum and that's unlikely. But he gives no reason that's actually unlikely. They have posted almost nothing of substance, idp I think has been scummy with the timing of his jumping into conversations. I think that's very possible and it's wierd twm is so set that it's unlikely without a reason.

Also twm responded more aggressively towards being called a lurker than I expected. 15 posts compared to the average player having 45 posts is pretty low on content. Also many of your posts as people pointed out were apologizing for being gone. Essentially I would like your thought on each and every player. It doesn't have to be a reread, I assume you are caught up and just want your current thoughts.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 10:38:14 am
The thing is Eevee did a few things I just don't think scum!eevee does. I commented on those things at the time. I may have biased my observations around the idea that mcmc was assumed scum, though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 10:42:05 am
based purely off of memory and then going back to the list of players, I am leaning toward one of the following: ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash?

So I guess those are people I should look at more specifically

Also here is a spot where twm suspected idp and Dylan, so again wierd that he's so set that we should lynch on wagon vs off wagon. This feels like more than a townie not wanting to be on the side of the wagon we are targeting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 10:44:07 am
mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew

Again, mcmc is my #1 scum read. But if we're only lynching off wagon today, you would be my choice. Not sure what you mean by "this is what I was talking about".

There is no set rule that we have to lynch off wagon. I can understand why that might be an idea to at least look at, but you are taking it as a rule.

There are 10 players alive. 3 that were off wagon and 7 that were on. I personally think it somewhat unlikely that more than one mafia was off wagon (from my perspective that would mean it would have to be Dylan and IDPTG, which certainly could be possible, but I think rather unlikely). So that is a 1/3 (0.33) chance (1/2 of two from my perspective, but I think it makes more sense to look at it from a strictly neutral position when trying to do these numbers) at best as there is still a decent chance the number of scum off wagon is zero.

As for on wagon it is likely either 3/7 (0.42) or 2/7 (0.28) that are mafia. So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon.

Well I'm certainly not going to argue against lynching my biggest scum read, who happened to be on wagon. I was under the impression that we were all decided we were lynching off wagon today. I can understand why you wouldn't want that, being off wagon and all.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 10:45:31 am
Eevee was the primary mover from the mcmc wagon to the Joseph wagon yesterday. I'm not sure what everyone else is considering him for but that is the most solid piece of evidence.

Eevee wasn't the primary mover at all. Eevee was never on my wagon, he was on joesph as an Rvs vote, eevee always townread me and then after a vote count he unvoted his Rvs vote, reread Joseph and then put him to l-2 with yes by the best explaination in the world but robz/ww/schadd all jumped quickly on the wagon with no explaination so I can't see how eevee's vote for Joseph is any scummier than the rest of our votes.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 14, 2017, 11:00:44 am
Well, I'm not going to insist on Eevee.

Andrew is starting to shift to someone I would lynch.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 11:06:42 am
Eevee was the primary mover from the mcmc wagon to the Joseph wagon yesterday. I'm not sure what everyone else is considering him for but that is the most solid piece of evidence.

Eevee wasn't the primary mover at all. Eevee was never on my wagon, he was on joesph as an Rvs vote, eevee always townread me and then after a vote count he unvoted his Rvs vote, reread Joseph and then put him to l-2 with yes by the best explaination in the world but robz/ww/schadd all jumped quickly on the wagon with no explaination so I can't see how eevee's vote for Joseph is any scummier than the rest of our votes.

Well, if you insist on having an accurate version of events...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 11:13:55 am
based purely off of memory and then going back to the list of players, I am leaning toward one of the following: ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash?

So I guess those are people I should look at more specifically

Also here is a spot where twm suspected idp and Dylan, so again wierd that he's so set that we should lynch on wagon vs off wagon. This feels like more than a townie not wanting to be on the side of the wagon we are targeting.

Especially since there hasn't been thaaaat much support for it. I'm still waiting to hear from Dylan.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 01:53:01 pm
mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew

Again, mcmc is my #1 scum read. But if we're only lynching off wagon today, you would be my choice. Not sure what you mean by "this is what I was talking about".

There is no set rule that we have to lynch off wagon. I can understand why that might be an idea to at least look at, but you are taking it as a rule.

There are 10 players alive. 3 that were off wagon and 7 that were on. I personally think it somewhat unlikely that more than one mafia was off wagon (from my perspective that would mean it would have to be Dylan and IDPTG, which certainly could be possible, but I think rather unlikely). So that is a 1/3 (0.33) chance (1/2 of two from my perspective, but I think it makes more sense to look at it from a strictly neutral position when trying to do these numbers) at best as there is still a decent chance the number of scum off wagon is zero.

As for on wagon it is likely either 3/7 (0.42) or 2/7 (0.28) that are mafia. So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon.

Well I'm certainly not going to argue against lynching my biggest scum read, who happened to be on wagon. I was under the impression that we were all decided we were lynching off wagon today. I can understand why you wouldn't want that, being off wagon and all.

It isn't that I don't want to lynch off wagon or on wagon. I want to lynch where the best lynch is. It could be one or the other. I don't want to isolate ourselves from thinking elsewhere and that is something I can see mafia trying to do.

If there were a very clear cut, confirmed fact that X mafia was found on or off wagon then it would certainly be worth doing. But right now we are working completely off speculation and possibly from manipulation.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 01:58:06 pm
Also twm responded more aggressively towards being called a lurker than I expected. 15 posts compared to the average player having 45 posts is pretty low on content. Also many of your posts as people pointed out were apologizing for being gone. Essentially I would like your thought on each and every player. It doesn't have to be a reread, I assume you are caught up and just want your current thoughts.

Because I am not a lurker. A lurker is someone who comes on the thread and doesn't post. I consistently post when I am online.

And yes, many of my posts were apologies. I am not going to apologize for apologizing. I had set aside time on Saturday to go into the game. But you know what happened to prevent that right?

Honestly I don't have thoughts on each and every player. I am caught up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I am at a point where I am reading them a certain way as of yet.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 02:02:56 pm
Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 02:05:59 pm
Maybe I should specify, I don't care if your viewing the thread or not. Lurking is posting but not participating in any of the active discussions which is what you are doing. It's what idp was doing after the lynch yesterday, and it's approaching what robz is doing if when he posts next he doesn't have much substance to his posts.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 02:29:47 pm
scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town.

I'm certainly considering this as a possibility and is another strong reason fro my current vote
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 02:31:27 pm
What do we have to lose from the UB stepping forward? There's no way scum would counterclaim and my impression from yesterday's Twilight is that Governor isn't the best role so we wouldn't lose too much drawing the NK if scum goes that route.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 02:47:13 pm
scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town.

I'm certainly considering this as a possibility and is another strong reason fro my current vote

I'm starting to think off-wagon isn't the best place to look. I looked at some numbers for random lynches and on-wagon seems more productive.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 02:51:36 pm
Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 02:56:46 pm
Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Any thoughts on the UB claiming? I haven't seen a downside other than potentially losing a 1-shot Governor tonight and that doesn't seem terrible to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:01:28 pm
Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Any thoughts on the UB claiming? I haven't seen a downside other than potentially losing a 1-shot Governor tonight and that doesn't seem terrible to me.

Woah I don't think ub claim is good. Mainly because it's nowhere near claim time. And the ub can reverse there own lynch now with the governor shot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:02:19 pm
Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Any thoughts on the UB claiming? I haven't seen a downside other than potentially losing a 1-shot Governor tonight and that doesn't seem terrible to me.

It's certainly strictly worse than losing a VT at night. That said I guess I have to understand the setup more to figure out whether the odds are in favor of that being likely.

As I understand the setup, we had to have rolled two 9's to get a governor, yes?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:07:41 pm
scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town.

I'm certainly considering this as a possibility and is another strong reason fro my current vote

I don't love being clipped in that way. I don't think scum is doing this at all. I think if you did the leg work to see you would come to that conclusion. I want people to put in the work. Idp mentions having run some numbers on RANDOM lynches and on-wagon lynch seems more productive.

How about you put together a case on someone or do a reread instead of running number on random lynches...we have lots of good interactions to go off of. I had not realized the newbiebess of idp untill recently and I am leaning slight townier on him than I was before because of that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:10:54 pm
I mean, I could just unvote, but where is the fun in that?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:13:05 pm
what would be the benefit of claiming ub?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:17:16 pm
what would be the benefit of claiming ub?

Scum can make sure to avoid killing him during the day where he can reverse the lynch and then get him at night?

Or maybe, in the absence of a counter claim, we can trust the reads and he can't be lynched but see point number 1.

So, net negative, really.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:19:53 pm
As I understand the setup, we had to have rolled two 9's to get a governor, yes?

Furthermore, if we rolled ten 6's it would be equivalent to rolling six 6's and four 1's, right?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:20:30 pm
having reads that one can trust isn't an entirely good thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:22:19 pm
having reads that one can trust isn't an entirely good thing

Agreed, it makes no guarantee of the quality of said reads (nevermind the manufacturing costs of the IC).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:23:45 pm
As I understand the setup, we had to have rolled two 9's to get a governor, yes?

Furthermore, if we rolled ten 6's it would be equivalent to rolling six 6's and four 1's, right?

2, 3, 5, or 6 9s or 10s that converted to 9s or a combination of those to answer the first bit. For the second, there are only 6 rolls, not 10.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:24:23 pm
what would be the benefit of claiming ub?

I thought having an IC would be good but clearly not this way.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:24:43 pm
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:25:58 pm
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?

I think he wasn't lying when he said he doesn't read set-ups.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:26:37 pm
cool. alignment, though
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:28:28 pm
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?
Im just going to reiterate for no reason at all that schadd is town.

Ppe:1
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?
I think he wasn't lying when he said he doesn't read set-ups.
Im going to continue hating the uselessness of people's answers to questions that might help us play the game...

Ppe another one: OH LOOK WHOSE TOWNY
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 03:28:57 pm
I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:29:51 pm
My jimmies are at maximum rustle
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:31:21 pm
I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
i hope you realize that this is having your cake & eating it if you two are partners
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:32:52 pm
cool. alignment, though

I don't know. The hammer didn't seem super towny, but people who know PPS better than I do are writing it off as something he does so I don't know what to make of that. Nothing else is screaming scum so I really have no idea.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:40:14 pm
that you were going to accuse me of buddying pps suggests you think he's town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:40:48 pm
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?
I think he wasn't lying when he said he doesn't read set-ups.
Im going to continue hating the uselessness of people's answers to questions that might help us play the game...

And how am I supposed to tell the difference between that question and the following quote?

twm, how did you like m91?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:42:04 pm
cool. alignment, though

I don't know. The hammer didn't seem super towny, but people who know PPS better than I do are writing it off as something he does so I don't know what to make of that. Nothing else is screaming scum so I really have no idea.

Can someone who has played lots with idp let me know if he is always this cautious and scared to have an opinion. This is textbook newbie scum continually claiming they are trying but just don't have great reads ect. ect. But it maybe idp has t played lots and mislynched town really badly in a newbie game and is all shell shocked and stuff.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:42:53 pm

And how am I supposed to tell the difference between that question and the following quote?

twm, how did you like m91?
do you think that question wasn't relevant to this game?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 03:46:43 pm
pps and idptg, what do you think of each other?
I think he wasn't lying when he said he doesn't read set-ups.
Im going to continue hating the uselessness of people's answers to questions that might help us play the game...

And how am I supposed to tell the difference between that question and the following quote?

twm, how did you like m91?
Well for what it's worth I don't like that schadd asked that question when he did, but I'm not sure how that one non-game related question from a day ago has sent you into such a tizzy that you can no longer understand when you should answer questions thoroughly and not...

Ppe: what schadd said but meaner
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 03:55:13 pm
cool. alignment, though

I don't know. The hammer didn't seem super towny, but people who know PPS better than I do are writing it off as something he does so I don't know what to make of that. Nothing else is screaming scum so I really have no idea.

Can someone who has played lots with idp let me know if he is always this cautious and scared to have an opinion. This is textbook newbie scum continually claiming they are trying but just don't have great reads ect. ect. But it maybe idp has t played lots and mislynched town really badly in a newbie game and is all shell shocked and stuff.

I can summarize it for you:

M89: I think we got to D3 after two town lynches and successful NKs. There's talk of claiming and then the thread locks. Thread unlocks and the game's over because too many townies got modkilled.

NM9: Scum won flawlessly D3. You know my hesitations from that game.

M91: I forgot I wasn't going to have internet for 10 days when I signed up and had to /out when I remembered. Got absolutely nothing done D1.

M94: You were there.

M96: This game.

PPE: 2 - It's more that I have trouble making sense of anything schadd says.

Starting to think I'm really not cut out for this game. Because nothing makes any sense. Ever. I've yet to have a correct read. Sure, I've gotten alignments correct, but that'll happen statistically and something's always been off.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 03:58:20 pm
you correctly townread me in m94
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 04:00:01 pm
I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
i hope you realize that this is having your cake & eating it if you two are partners

hopefully, you realize that were I scum I simply would never say such a thing about my partner.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 14, 2017, 04:13:45 pm
you correctly townread me in m94

Town, yes, but let's not go into the rest of it...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 04:18:16 pm
I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
i hope you realize that this is having your cake & eating it if you two are partners

hopefully, you realize that were I scum I simply would never say such a thing about my partner.
Very specific meta argument, schadd is right you are shoving your face full of cake and promising there's not another cake in the fridge because.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 04:18:50 pm
Someone(me) should do an ash reread seeing as he's a smart guy and town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 14, 2017, 04:31:15 pm
Ok, I'm finally back with enough time to actually go back and read the game. So I knew my post count was low (I couldn't forget it with you guys mentioning it at least once per page), but reading the game I realized just how low it was. I am sincerely sorry about that, and I probably wouldn't have in'd to this game had I known how many projects and stuff would pile up this week before spring break.

So I just reread the entire game, and mcmc and eevee seemed way too buddy-buddy for mutually town-reading each other if you didn't actually have something concrete to assure you the other person was also town.  Even when I am town reading someone, I recognize the fact I could be wrong and take everything with a grain of salt, but you guys don't seem to have done that at all. So I wouldn't definitely want to lynch one of the two of you. Also, after the hammer on Joseph, there were 3 conftowns (to me) on mcmc's wagon. Andrew and PPS were the last two on that moved if I remember correctly.  If mcmc is town, then I would want to lynch one of Andrew or PPS; not sure which yet, but would lean Andrew just because pps has seemed otherwise towny aside from the quickhammer (which, again, he would definitely still do as town, sadly).  If mcmc is scum, I'd stake my in game life on Eevee being scum too.

Someone was wanting to know what I thought about the suspicious on me I think.  I think given how low my post count is, it is at least understandable, but from the little experience I have, lynching low post count people hits inactive town WAY more than it hits lurking scum, because scum is more careful to contribute at least somewhat regularly. I would probably go so far as to speculate that statistically scum is most likely to be in the mid-range band of post counts because they know lurking is the stereotypical scum tell, but higher post counts are more risky (but also can pay off more; e.g. scum!mcmc driving--if not this game--previous games).

Of the 3 low content players here though, me, IDPTG, and TWM, TWM has had moments that did seem kind of scummy.  IDPTG seems pretty similar to what I've seen of him in other games and I think he's been around enough to probably be able to actually play as scum without having to try to rely on the confused!newb!town act that a couple people have alluded to recently; so I think he's probably just confused town.

PPE 2
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 14, 2017, 04:32:41 pm
Wow, pretty significant typo. I meant to say "I would definitely want to lynch one of the two of you." referring to mcmc + eevee.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 04:33:08 pm
@idp's most recent post: don't think the game isn't cut out for you, you will get the hang of it. I can see that the reason I am so confused by your play specifically is you actually caused me some trouble as town in squid girl. You correctly guessed shcadd was town and me scum d1 and also didn't get fooled into quicklynching robz d2. Lalights a lazy pants so it's hard to get an idea of m89 quickly but I having it stopped short is rough. So you've played two completed games and in one you were difinietly on the right track. My scum read on you has lessened.

Ppe: yay Dylan's back
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 14, 2017, 04:47:45 pm
Running late with a game night tonight, but I'll try to get to the last couple pages when we are done. Nice to see there's been a lot of activity!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 04:48:22 pm
I may vote dylan. schadd and I have been way more buddy buddy than eevee and I. Also the conclusions dylan made are that if I am town, he wants to lynch andrew or pps which is basically what I had said about how andrew and pps moved from me to Joseph scummily. He makes no conclusion about what me being town says about eevee. Then he says if I'm scum eevee is certainly scum, which I don't know how he has gotten to. Then he ends with a scummy if we're going to look off wagon twm is the scummy one but doesn't give any reasons whatso ever as to why.

All he is doing is setting up people he wants to lynch with almost no reasons other than mcmc and eevee are buddying eachother.

Also I want to clarify I really think his explaination for why andrew and pps are people he would look to if I were town is indicative of him being scum. After a complete reread it's a really general reasoning that is setting up where he can pivot when I flip town. He's not even thinking about what eevee flipping town would mean which is wierd since it's an eevee/me interaction not just me. It's just very "I've made one read I'm basing all my other reads on so I can change them" I do this as scum lots.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 04:51:39 pm
I may vote dylan. schadd and I have been way more buddy buddy than eevee and I. Also the conclusions dylan made are that if I am town, he wants to lynch andrew or pps which is basically what I had said about how andrew and pps moved from me to Joseph scummily. He makes no conclusion about what me being town says about eevee. Then he says if I'm scum eevee is certainly scum, which I don't know how he has gotten to. Then he ends with a scummy if we're going to look off wagon twm is the scummy one but doesn't give any reasons whatso ever as to why.

All he is doing is setting up people he wants to lynch with almost no reasons other than mcmc and eevee are buddying eachother.

Also I want to clarify I really think his explaination for why andrew and pps are people he would look to if I were town is indicative of him being scum. After a complete reread it's a really general reasoning that is setting up where he can pivot when I flip town. He's not even thinking about what eevee flipping town would mean which is wierd since it's an eevee/me interaction not just me. It's just very "I've made one read I'm basing all my other reads on so I can change them" I do this as scum lots.

Agree with all this.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 04:57:01 pm
Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone

That makes sense. I get what you are saying, but man, I just haven't had the time to go and do the work. Especially when I feel like when I come on, I have to defend myself to an extent from people who want to arbitrarily lynch a "lurker" who was off-wagon.

I would love to go back and actually see if my theory makes sense and I hope to at some point today, unless someone decides it is a good idea to do a quick hammer again.

And honestly. I just haven't seen a whole lot on first read that has really caught my eye. Last game, it was easier to an extent. I could just force it as scum. Arbitrarily decide something was scummy or sheep someone else and then state it as such and all was good for the most part. This game, between being town and having little time it hasn't been very optimal to putting reads out there.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 05:01:26 pm
And I do like mcmc's reactions towards me/others. Is reminiscent of faust last game as town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 05:15:19 pm
sigging before the game is over is kinda yucky


robz has been a bit quiet. if you do the "yeah i'm kinda disengaged because i'm town" thing i'm going to eat you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 05:35:29 pm
sigging before the game is over is kinda yucky


robz has been a bit quiet. if you do the "yeah i'm kinda disengaged because i'm town" thing i'm going to eat you
noted and removed
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 14, 2017, 05:45:04 pm
Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone

That makes sense. I get what you are saying, but man, I just haven't had the time to go and do the work. Especially when I feel like when I come on, I have to defend myself to an extent from people who want to arbitrarily lynch a "lurker" who was off-wagon.

I would love to go back and actually see if my theory makes sense and I hope to at some point today, unless someone decides it is a good idea to do a quick hammer again.

And honestly. I just haven't seen a whole lot on first read that has really caught my eye. Last game, it was easier to an extent. I could just force it as scum. Arbitrarily decide something was scummy or sheep someone else and then state it as such and all was good for the most part. This game, between being town and having little time it hasn't been very optimal to putting reads out there.
So I don't want to turn this into a debate because it's not helpful but here's my main issue with this. You say it's frustrating because when you do come on you feel like you have to defend yourself from people arbitrarily wanting to lynch a lurker off wagon. Okay that's understandable but let's do the work, who's arbitrarily saying we should lynch off wagon, I want to lynch off wagon because of the very specific and quick way that the Joseph wagon came to be, in my opinion it is different than many wagons and we will have a better chance of finding scum off wagon. Now let's do the work and see how you defended yourself, well you basically just apologized for lurking you didn't explain maybe why you were off wagon yesterday or any other real defense. Then you go on to say you would love to go back and see if your theory works and say you hope to today. Why does that feel to me like you are not going to have the time today, and then you will feel the game has moved on too far past where your analysis would help and that's where your wrong. If you are town I don't want you getting stuck in a rut thinking you don't have the time to craft a case because by the time you put it together it will be irrelevant. If it means you will post content, post whatever the content you have, when you have it, don't waste time worrying it's not going to help or thinking you should be catching up and talking about current things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 07:06:35 pm
Catching up on the last couple pages.

Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Yeah, I'm convinced. Not necessarily that scum is doing this this game but that narrowing the lynch pool to those off wagon sounds like a great idea, but it requires you to not pay any mind to anything wagon related, which would be a mistake I think. Besides that, I don't think anyone off wagon is really that scummy.

vote: mcmc

Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Any thoughts on the UB claiming? I haven't seen a downside other than potentially losing a 1-shot Governor tonight and that doesn't seem terrible to me.

Woah I don't think ub claim is good. Mainly because it's nowhere near claim time. And the ub can reverse there own lynch now with the governor shot.

When is claim time? I'd like to set my alarm so I don't miss it.

cool. alignment, though

I don't know. The hammer didn't seem super towny, but people who know PPS better than I do are writing it off as something he does so I don't know what to make of that. Nothing else is screaming scum so I really have no idea.

Can someone who has played lots with idp let me know if he is always this cautious and scared to have an opinion. This is textbook newbie scum continually claiming they are trying but just don't have great reads ect. ect. But it maybe idp has t played lots and mislynched town really badly in a newbie game and is all shell shocked and stuff.

I don't think this is a newbie scum move, there have been games where I had no strong reads for almost the whole game. This could be especially tough for a new player.

Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone

That makes sense. I get what you are saying, but man, I just haven't had the time to go and do the work. Especially when I feel like when I come on, I have to defend myself to an extent from people who want to arbitrarily lynch a "lurker" who was off-wagon.

I would love to go back and actually see if my theory makes sense and I hope to at some point today, unless someone decides it is a good idea to do a quick hammer again.

And honestly. I just haven't seen a whole lot on first read that has really caught my eye. Last game, it was easier to an extent. I could just force it as scum. Arbitrarily decide something was scummy or sheep someone else and then state it as such and all was good for the most part. This game, between being town and having little time it hasn't been very optimal to putting reads out there.


Starting to think I'm really not cut out for this game. Because nothing makes any sense. Ever. I've yet to have a correct read. Sure, I've gotten alignments correct, but that'll happen statistically and something's always been off.

Not sure what to think about this. Yes I can sympathize with what he's saying but this isn't his first game. BUT I could see him saying this on his first game as scum (is this your first game as scum?).

I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
i hope you realize that this is having your cake & eating it if you two are partners

hopefully, you realize that were I scum I simply would never say such a thing about my partner.

Would you quickhammer town D1 as scum? I thought it'd be best to ask you first.

So I just reread the entire game, and mcmc and eevee seemed way too buddy-buddy for mutually town-reading each other if you didn't actually have something concrete to assure you the other person was also town.  Even when I am town reading someone, I recognize the fact I could be wrong and take everything with a grain of salt, but you guys don't seem to have done that at all. So I wouldn't definitely want to lynch one of the two of you. Also, after the hammer on Joseph, there were 3 conftowns (to me) on mcmc's wagon. Andrew and PPS were the last two on that moved if I remember correctly.  If mcmc is town, then I would want to lynch one of Andrew or PPS; not sure which yet, but would lean Andrew just because pps has seemed otherwise towny aside from the quickhammer (which, again, he would definitely still do as town, sadly).  If mcmc is scum, I'd stake my in game life on Eevee being scum too.

I haven't really noticed mcmc/Eevee buddying specifically. To me it looked like mcmc was buddying a few people, especially with that whole private twilight study group that he created for some reason, putting the FOS on IDPTG (I think) for posting during the study group's allotted time. Can you post a few examples you found of them buddying? Also, you have 3 conf!towns? What? Who and why? And your reason for lynching me if mcmc is town is because "pps has seemed otherwise towny". So there's nothing you find particularly scummy about me, I just happened to be the L-2 vote and that's enough? So confused with this whole thing.

Quote from: Dylan32
Someone was wanting to know what I thought about the suspicious on me I think.  I think given how low my post count is, it is at least understandable, but from the little experience I have, lynching low post count people hits inactive town WAY more than it hits lurking scum, because scum is more careful to contribute at least somewhat regularly. I would probably go so far as to speculate that statistically scum is most likely to be in the mid-range band of post counts because they know lurking is the stereotypical scum tell, but higher post counts are more risky (but also can pay off more; e.g. scum!mcmc driving--if not this game--previous games).

According to this lurking is stereotypically scummy, so scum is usually in the mid-range of post counts, unless they're very active like scum!mcmc in previous games. Ok. I'll agree that we should just be targeting lurkers just because they're lurking but I don't think we are. We were looking at people off wagon and all 3 of them happened to be lurkers of some sort. I know this might upset TWM but I think my definition of lurking is a little different than yours, though I could be wrong about it.

Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone

That makes sense. I get what you are saying, but man, I just haven't had the time to go and do the work. Especially when I feel like when I come on, I have to defend myself to an extent from people who want to arbitrarily lynch a "lurker" who was off-wagon.

I would love to go back and actually see if my theory makes sense and I hope to at some point today, unless someone decides it is a good idea to do a quick hammer again.

And honestly. I just haven't seen a whole lot on first read that has really caught my eye. Last game, it was easier to an extent. I could just force it as scum. Arbitrarily decide something was scummy or sheep someone else and then state it as such and all was good for the most part. This game, between being town and having little time it hasn't been very optimal to putting reads out there.
So I don't want to turn this into a debate because it's not helpful but here's my main issue with this. You say it's frustrating because when you do come on you feel like you have to defend yourself from people arbitrarily wanting to lynch a lurker off wagon. Okay that's understandable but let's do the work, who's arbitrarily saying we should lynch off wagon, I want to lynch off wagon because of the very specific and quick way that the Joseph wagon came to be, in my opinion it is different than many wagons and we will have a better chance of finding scum off wagon. Now let's do the work and see how you defended yourself, well you basically just apologized for lurking you didn't explain maybe why you were off wagon yesterday or any other real defense. Then you go on to say you would love to go back and see if your theory works and say you hope to today. Why does that feel to me like you are not going to have the time today, and then you will feel the game has moved on too far past where your analysis would help and that's where your wrong. If you are town I don't want you getting stuck in a rut thinking you don't have the time to craft a case because by the time you put it together it will be irrelevant. If it means you will post content, post whatever the content you have, when you have it, don't waste time worrying it's not going to help or thinking you should be catching up and talking about current things.

The part I bolded jumped out at me. Why does TWM need to explain why he was off wagon yesterday? Do Dylan and IDPTG need to explain it too? Or just TWM?

By the way I was rereading a little and found this:

By the way I was rereading a little bit and I found this:


i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time

Do you still feel this was schadd? If so would you elaborate and if not would you at least tell us what you were thinking at the time?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 07:09:01 pm
I don't thnk we are in a debate. Like I said I get town vibes from you for this. And see some points to what you say. I hadn't noted or thought of your point about how the wagon formed. Thinking of that more the main scenario I see for all scum being on wagon is if PPS is mafia himself. And that is something that has been discussed a bit. I personally didn't love his hammer, he says some good came out of it, but many of the good parts would have happened with any hammer at any stage of the game, but it certainly negatively impacted me (and possibly others?) and my ability to get into the game (not that he could have known that or should have cared if he did) as generally weekends are when I am the most free.

But again, I feel that unnecessarily constrains where to look. Maybe that is your issue? I am still figuring out where to look when I have the time. You want me to have looked already as you feel you have established the where. Expectations vs reality.

And yes. You make a fair guess that I won't be able to do large scale analysis until the weekend. Of course I'll still post as I am able.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 07:10:10 pm
Sorry for the super messy post, here it is cleaned up a little:

Catching up on the last couple pages.

Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Yeah, I'm convinced. Not necessarily that scum is doing this this game but that narrowing the lynch pool to those off wagon sounds like a great idea, but it requires you to not pay any mind to anything wagon related, which would be a mistake I think. Besides that, I don't think anyone off wagon is really that scummy.

vote: mcmc

Wagon manipulation is the easiest scum tactic. If you're own lead the hunt off it. If you're off lead the hunt on it.

It seems sensible to gullible town either way. I tend to view wagon hunting techniques as scum tactics entirely although clearly I still have to consider wagon compositions for my own analysis as town but try to do so in as much of a vacuum as I can muster.

Any thoughts on the UB claiming? I haven't seen a downside other than potentially losing a 1-shot Governor tonight and that doesn't seem terrible to me.

Woah I don't think ub claim is good. Mainly because it's nowhere near claim time. And the ub can reverse there own lynch now with the governor shot.

When is claim time? I'd like to set my alarm so I don't miss it.

cool. alignment, though

I don't know. The hammer didn't seem super towny, but people who know PPS better than I do are writing it off as something he does so I don't know what to make of that. Nothing else is screaming scum so I really have no idea.

Can someone who has played lots with idp let me know if he is always this cautious and scared to have an opinion. This is textbook newbie scum continually claiming they are trying but just don't have great reads ect. ect. But it maybe idp has t played lots and mislynched town really badly in a newbie game and is all shell shocked and stuff.

I don't think this is a newbie scum move, there have been games where I had no strong reads for almost the whole game. This could be especially tough for a new player.

Starting to think I'm really not cut out for this game. Because nothing makes any sense. Ever. I've yet to have a correct read. Sure, I've gotten alignments correct, but that'll happen statistically and something's always been off.

Not sure what to think about this. Yes I can sympathize with what he's saying but this isn't his first game. BUT I could see him saying this on his first game as scum (is this your first game as scum?).

I'm pretty much null on ICPjuggalo but I'm leaning town enough to be very hard pressed to lynch him today.
i hope you realize that this is having your cake & eating it if you two are partners

hopefully, you realize that were I scum I simply would never say such a thing about my partner.

Would you quickhammer town D1 as scum? I thought it'd be best to ask you first.

So I just reread the entire game, and mcmc and eevee seemed way too buddy-buddy for mutually town-reading each other if you didn't actually have something concrete to assure you the other person was also town.  Even when I am town reading someone, I recognize the fact I could be wrong and take everything with a grain of salt, but you guys don't seem to have done that at all. So I wouldn't definitely want to lynch one of the two of you. Also, after the hammer on Joseph, there were 3 conftowns (to me) on mcmc's wagon. Andrew and PPS were the last two on that moved if I remember correctly.  If mcmc is town, then I would want to lynch one of Andrew or PPS; not sure which yet, but would lean Andrew just because pps has seemed otherwise towny aside from the quickhammer (which, again, he would definitely still do as town, sadly).  If mcmc is scum, I'd stake my in game life on Eevee being scum too.

I haven't really noticed mcmc/Eevee buddying specifically. To me it looked like mcmc was buddying a few people, especially with that whole private twilight study group that he created for some reason, putting the FOS on IDPTG (I think) for posting during the study group's allotted time. Can you post a few examples you found of them buddying? Also, you have 3 conf!towns? What? Who and why? And your reason for lynching me if mcmc is town is because "pps has seemed otherwise towny". So there's nothing you find particularly scummy about me, I just happened to be the L-2 vote and that's enough? So confused with this whole thing.

Quote from: Dylan32
Someone was wanting to know what I thought about the suspicious on me I think.  I think given how low my post count is, it is at least understandable, but from the little experience I have, lynching low post count people hits inactive town WAY more than it hits lurking scum, because scum is more careful to contribute at least somewhat regularly. I would probably go so far as to speculate that statistically scum is most likely to be in the mid-range band of post counts because they know lurking is the stereotypical scum tell, but higher post counts are more risky (but also can pay off more; e.g. scum!mcmc driving--if not this game--previous games).

According to this lurking is stereotypically scummy, so scum is usually in the mid-range of post counts, unless they're very active like scum!mcmc in previous games. Ok. I'll agree that we should just be targeting lurkers just because they're lurking but I don't think we are. We were looking at people off wagon and all 3 of them happened to be lurkers of some sort. I know this might upset TWM but I think my definition of lurking is a little different than yours, though I could be wrong about it.

Twm you just seem to be overly concerned with where we are looking for our lynch target. This is why I would consider you a lurker. Rather than commenting on if you think one of idp/dylan is scum, or making a case on someone on wagon you have just voiced concern over where we are looking.

Perhaps you have a good theory, scum is trying to coerce town into lynching between a small group of people that contains town. That's a thought, then you need to go through and do the work, see who has initiated the off wagon suspicion, who has agreed/disagreed, have the votes of those players and the prior reeds of those players been consistent with what they are currently pushing or not. Then present that info to town so we can analyze see if we think your right and maybe form a wagon on someone

That makes sense. I get what you are saying, but man, I just haven't had the time to go and do the work. Especially when I feel like when I come on, I have to defend myself to an extent from people who want to arbitrarily lynch a "lurker" who was off-wagon.

I would love to go back and actually see if my theory makes sense and I hope to at some point today, unless someone decides it is a good idea to do a quick hammer again.

And honestly. I just haven't seen a whole lot on first read that has really caught my eye. Last game, it was easier to an extent. I could just force it as scum. Arbitrarily decide something was scummy or sheep someone else and then state it as such and all was good for the most part. This game, between being town and having little time it hasn't been very optimal to putting reads out there.
So I don't want to turn this into a debate because it's not helpful but here's my main issue with this. You say it's frustrating because when you do come on you feel like you have to defend yourself from people arbitrarily wanting to lynch a lurker off wagon. Okay that's understandable but let's do the work, who's arbitrarily saying we should lynch off wagon, I want to lynch off wagon because of the very specific and quick way that the Joseph wagon came to be, in my opinion it is different than many wagons and we will have a better chance of finding scum off wagon. Now let's do the work and see how you defended yourself, well you basically just apologized for lurking you didn't explain maybe why you were off wagon yesterday or any other real defense. Then you go on to say you would love to go back and see if your theory works and say you hope to today. Why does that feel to me like you are not going to have the time today, and then you will feel the game has moved on too far past where your analysis would help and that's where your wrong. If you are town I don't want you getting stuck in a rut thinking you don't have the time to craft a case because by the time you put it together it will be irrelevant. If it means you will post content, post whatever the content you have, when you have it, don't waste time worrying it's not going to help or thinking you should be catching up and talking about current things.

The part I bolded jumped out at me. Why does TWM need to explain why he was off wagon yesterday? Do Dylan and IDPTG need to explain it too? Or just TWM?

By the way I was rereading a little and found this:


i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time

Do you still feel this was schadd? If so would you elaborate and if not would you at least tell us what you were thinking at the time?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 07:11:57 pm
I glossed over the part that Andrew highlighted above. That is a weird question for me to answer, why I was off wagon. I fail to see how that is relevant.

But to answer the question: I was offline and voting for Dylan when the wagon took off and ended.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 14, 2017, 07:17:35 pm
I don't thnk we are in a debate. Like I said I get town vibes from you for this. And see some points to what you say. I hadn't noted or thought of your point about how the wagon formed. Thinking of that more the main scenario I see for all scum being on wagon is if PPS is mafia himself. And that is something that has been discussed a bit. I personally didn't love his hammer, he says some good came out of it, but many of the good parts would have happened with any hammer at any stage of the game, but it certainly negatively impacted me (and possibly others?) and my ability to get into the game (not that he could have known that or should have cared if he did) as generally weekends are when I am the most free.

I personally agree with schadd that the quickhammer didn't benefit town. Like I've said before nobody would ever think of doing a quickhammer D1 as scum so I feel like pps has gotten off the hook by doing it. Quick and easy D1 town kill while gaining towncred. I get a super scummy vibe from it and would like to lynch him today if mcmc doesn't happen.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 14, 2017, 08:14:59 pm
I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 14, 2017, 09:05:04 pm
I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.

But <sig>
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 14, 2017, 09:05:18 pm
Your sig I mean.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 09:08:47 pm
i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time

Do you still feel this was schadd? If so would you elaborate and if not would you at least tell us what you were thinking at the time?

i do. will later do so


I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.
i would no longer like to receive correspondences of this kind
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 14, 2017, 09:09:16 pm
eerg, quote wrong somehow but probably clear
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 14, 2017, 10:40:49 pm
Lol. "Dylan needs to post more." *I post my general impressions of the game* "THIS IS SCUMMY, LYNCH HIM"

Ok I exaggerate, but I thought the immediate reaction to one post was funny. It's like you were waiting for me to say something so you could target me for anything other than being inactive mcmc.

Some clarification.  The eevee mcmc buddying might have been more eevee towards mcmc than the other way around.

\
...

I think mcmc is actually my 2nd highest townread, for providing the highest quality of analysis.

Had a busy day, glad to have been missed! Going to sleep soon now as well, very tireeed.

I don't think mcmc or ash are good lynches. Mcmc is driving the conversation so much, I think there is some utility in that. Ash is playing a little different than I'd expect, but I don't think he is looking scummy. Definitely interesting though, like I feel there is something I'm missing.

schadd I can never read, but he seems super sure I'm scum. (I'm not!!)
 
Robz and PPS continue being less forceful than I'd expect, but I don't really have a strong read to push either, so it feels hypocritical to blame them too much.

I think best lynch candidates would be the quiet, least splashy people. When my eyes are less tired, I think I'll look into rereading the rest of the lower posters, always thought that was a useful exercise for the time commitment.

I would like to reiterate I don't think mcmc is a good lynch. He is basically being singled out for scumhunting too aggressively? I think it's a common reaction to want to lynch someone who has done well lately as scum, because you don't want to be duped by the same person repeatedly over short period, but do we really want to lynch the guy who is driving most of the action? It doesn't even look like particularly opportunistic scumhunting, sure I would agree he is more engaged than I would expect from townmcmc day 1, but this looks to me like punishing him for trying, which kind of sucks.

Reread PPS, which was definitely a weird experience. He doesn't have a lot of posts, but his posts are very full of content. Makes it seem like it's not that he has nothing to say, but more that he is choosing to stay on the back, which is interesting. Not someone I'd be looking to lynch though, I think high content:post ratio is pretty towny in general. My instinct would have been that he has been less helpful than he has, and I think PPS is a pretty self-aware guy and that doesn't seem like a style scum would want to play.


Btw, I love being scum and unless it's RMM I am pretty meh on being town.

So, I am clearly town this game.
This is a somewhat weird quote, because PPS seems pretty in tune with what's happening in the game. Or is it meh as in not as eager to put in a lot of effort?

Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?
This sums up my feelings for the hammer. I know PPS has done these earlier as town, has he done it as scum?

Even when Eevee tries to say something mcmc said is scummy, it comes out like:

Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.
(emphasis mine)

Hey schadd and pps do you feel like we are having a conversation and idp is sitting in the corner of the room adding random interjections?

Those people always seem scummy to me.
I like this point. Definitely feel like scum often ends up doing that, because they are scared of presenting original ideas, but want to seem like they are participating and contributing.

That Joseph went poof after supposedly resurrecting himself immediately after the lynch looks super duper fishy to me. I mean, when I am scum I troll the twilight for the lulz, but most do exactly what he just did.
Yeah, the disappearance definitely makes me feel like this is a possibility as well. One can hope.

This post-lynch scramble is strengthening my townread on mcmc. A lot of opinions I find myself reading and thinking "that's good point", and they aren't safe and obvious points, but things I hadn't thought of myself at least.


Why and why?
he made a comment that was unhelpful other than making it seem like he wasn't the one planning the nightkill.


i should go ahead and make the case of my thoughts yesterDay at some point
Which comment?

First paragraph defends mcmc's actions. Second paragraph uses my suspicions of mcmc to partially justify voting for me:
Why is that towny? I think scum is more likely to throw vague suspicions around (and I also think that regardless of his alignment mcmc probably just didn't see the question, I don't think scummcmc-would try to dodge like that).

I actually reread Dylan before my vote, but just didn't have time to type a longer post. I saw low activity (most of the 15 posts were not game-related) non-towny voting, I particularly disagreed with him suspecting mcmc as the main contribution because I thought mcmc looked towny all day.

In a separate post I will see if mcmc buddied eevee as much and answer other questions that I think I saw directed at me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 11:10:00 pm
Ok. Got a bit of time to look at what mcmc was talking about Day1:

mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam

Vote #1: March 8, 5:18 pm- mcmc
Vote #2: March 9, 9:39 - Robz
Vote #3: 9:44 - WW
Vote #4: 10:37 - schadd
Vote #5: March 10 8:44 - Eevee
Vote #6: 11:13 - Andrew
Vote #7: 11:15 - PPS

So it was relatively fast, but mostly it was the end that was fast there. Like I said, I could see PPS doing a hammer here if he were scum and if his partners were on already (even if they weren't), but aside from that I haven't really been super suspicious of PPS and that alone isn't worthy of a vote I think.

I guess I just don't see what exactly makes others so sure that all mafia couldn't be on the wagon. I am not necessarily saying that is the case, but I could see it happening, especially if one of mcmc or Robz is scum. They get it started, someone like schadd or Eevee or Andrew jump on midway and PPS finish it off. But I don't think that is necessarily anymore likely than one of Dylan or IDPTG being mafia.

Looking back at IDPTG and Dylan (and myself to be thorough) during that time period I see me being having posted, but I feel like I wasn't really aware of the Joseph wagon until it was voted. I do remember seeing mcmc's vote and thinking that Joseph looked like Joseph from the last game I was in where he was a bit odd.

IDPTG had an opportunity to vote, but declined it instead trying to get Joseph to stop acting crazy.

And Dylan was on during the early part, but was more focused on mcmc.

I guess the question I am trying to figure out here is whether Dylan as scum or IDPTG as scum would have had an opportune moment to join the Joseph wagon and both did, but decided not to. That doesn't necessarily make them town. What I see more is that Joseph was a pivot wagon away from mcmc with Dylan/ash/joseph on it and other that were on it had left for Joseph. Could that be a driving reason for PPS's hammer, making sure that the Joseph wagon didn't dissipate (there was very little substance behind most of the votes) and switch back to mcmc?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 14, 2017, 11:11:51 pm
So to answer the question:

I don't see a compelling argument to say that there has to be mafia off wagon. Nor do I see a compelling argument that all of mafia had to be on wagon. I feel that both sides have a relatively equal chance of finding mafia. Obviously knowing my alignment gives a bias toward there being less of a chance for off wagon, but I think that is a useful bias.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 14, 2017, 11:29:15 pm
Mcmc -> Eevee

Here he disagrees with Eevee gently.
I'm kind of surprised people aren't taking any positions on ashersky's thing. Less sure I'm right myself with this many others seeing it differently. Ash, was this the reaction you anticipated you'd get?

I saw it and read some of the surrounding posts, it just seems like a really ash thing to do. The one thing I thought is if ash is town and not the ub he definitely made the ub sweat a little bit because of even bringing it up. This favors scum slightly because they can gauge people's reaction to try and guess who the real ub is. So overall I think slight edge toward that post helping scum but then there's the why would ash want to be in the spotlight if he is scum blah blah blah. So pretty neutral, as I said a very ash thing to do.

Reread IDPTG, he didn't seem overly scummy to me. I doubt he'd be the biggest lurker, and the posts actually seem pretty full of content for their size and quantity, he's been commenting on multiple issues and we really haven't had much happening yet.

This is what I thought whic is why I wanted ww to answer my question of why he is voting for idp.

Dylan was indeed a very fast reread. As far as I can tell, of his 11 posts, only this has been relevant to the game:

So far, I don't really think there has been anything that scummy from anyone. I could definitely see a possible scum narrative for Ash, but I just don't think it is as likely as him being town.  Mcmc's concern, whether accurate or not, seems townie. schadd seems like schadd, so at least we know noone has kidnapped him and taken his place.

which looks like a fine post, although the expressed opinions seem to be on the safer side. Not that I have any scathingly hot takes myself, it is still early. We only have 4 days until the deadline though, so it would be good to get something happening soon. Is it just me or have we gone to the day of the deadline with almost no serious wagons pretty often in the near history, especially day 1?

Hey eevee wanna let the people I ask questions answer them and then react to those answers with your own instead of jumping the gun...that being said I agree with your analysis that Dylan's post was very safe.

Yea eevee I think your worrying is valid and townie but also non-helpful. Just start interrogating people and then following up with an analysis of their answers and a reasoning for your interrogation, even if that reason is I wanted that player to post something.

i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.

Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

town: andrew, robz, pps, ww, milk macaroon
dunno: twm, ask her sky, joseph, d32
want to lynch: idptg
want three lynch: eevee

Oh boy, milk macaroon may be my new favorite nickname. Also I still dunno what you see in eevee though he is a little quiet. I feel like I want eevee to be town and it is hindering my ability to read him though idk, maybe I am just viewing him as towny and then I'm being overconcerned with it being a read because I like him.

Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads

Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew

Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads
Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew

Revolution of reads
Got lynched: Joseph (wagon) mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Scummy scum(off wagon): ash, dylan, idp
Keeping an eye on you killers(on wagon): eevee, pps, robz, witherweaver
Do more: TWM
Townie: schadd, Andrew

Witherweaver fos'd eevee pretty quickly, could be on wagon scum going after a townie quickly. I would bet this lynch has more townie on it because of how fast it went.

Probably the main reason I have suspicions of pps is because I remember in my scum games recently, me/jake/lalight had to all be on wagon for awhiiiile, we kept thinking we would have scum off wagon but the wagons would stall for so long we would all have to jump on eventually. This feels like townies honestly likeing this lynch.

Vote: Joseph

Reread him, I could definitely see a scum narrative in his voting history (first voted for ashersky, when the tide turned against lynching ash, changed his position to "town because of his antics). Nothing really struck to me as towny in his posting either, hard to put a finger on it but I don't get the impression he is trying to figure things out, more that he wants a lynch through that isn't him. This claim question strengthens that impression, I think town is more concerned with concealing their role because it's better for town regardless of your role, whereas scum might be more anxious to claim because they think it might help get them out of hot water. Basically, for town one can think "well, if I die, it might actually help us win if it happens in the right way", whereas scum MUST avoid getting lynched day 1, because if they go down their team is in very big trouble.


L-2, if I do my math right.

This is eevee's vote that either didn't like, it is posted 2 hours after a vote count and before the vote count eevee said he was going to reread andrew(which witherweaver asked for opinions on)

Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.

You do know Joseph could still be lying. So eevee also didn't read the setup lol

Eevee's reply to that a number of posts down: "Guilty." (Didn't feel like wasting space to actually post quote.)

Or maybe Calamitas isn't in this game.
Yea he's not, TWM is though and he's kinda a people person version of cal
I have absolutely zero recollection of TWM making any posts that aren't "sorry, still busy, I'll get to it". I guess he has been busy still, then?

Yea, this was okay when he was my scumpartner lurking and not getting called out. He pretty much missed an entire day which is bad.

i also feel that feeling


vote: eevee
I feel Vote: Eevee is the right thing to do.

Why and why?

This is the first time I think mcmc mentions Eevee's buddying.

Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

The issue being twm/dylan/eevee could also be the scum team with eevee buddying me much the way I buddied faust recently, get an active townie to push lynches for you, didn't come to much bigger conclusions than anyone else, and have his scum partners just lurk the entire day away.

Now being forced to pick between these types of narratives(these aren't the only two teams just examples) I absolutely don't want to punish active town andrew and pps for having slightly different opinions than me, especially because mine were wrong about Joseph in the first place. I would much rather lose to pps and andrew because twm and Dylan and idp just lurked way to hard as town. If that makes sense.

So sorry schadd and witherweaver, zero of my eevee scum alarms are ringing, his defense is exactly what I would have said.

Twm on the other hand is increasingly unhelpful which I find interesting.

Eevee was the primary mover from the mcmc wagon to the Joseph wagon yesterday. I'm not sure what everyone else is considering him for but that is the most solid piece of evidence.

Eevee wasn't the primary mover at all. Eevee was never on my wagon, he was on joesph as an Rvs vote, eevee always townread me and then after a vote count he unvoted his Rvs vote, reread Joseph and then put him to l-2 with yes by the best explaination in the world but robz/ww/schadd all jumped quickly on the wagon with no explaination so I can't see how eevee's vote for Joseph is any scummier than the rest of our votes.

Ok. So there are pretty much all the interactions between Mcmc and Eevee. I do have to admit I did notice Mcmc acting more like schadd's buddy that acting like Eevee's, but there was only one moment where it seemed like you were skeptical of Eevee at all. Thanks for making me do this, because it at least confirmed my instinct that there was at least some buddying going on involving you too.

I may vote dylan. schadd and I have been way more buddy buddy than eevee and I. Also the conclusions dylan made are that if I am town, he wants to lynch andrew or pps which is basically what I had said about how andrew and pps moved from me to Joseph scummily. He makes no conclusion about what me being town says about eevee. Then he says if I'm scum eevee is certainly scum, which I don't know how he has gotten to. Then he ends with a scummy if we're going to look off wagon twm is the scummy one but doesn't give any reasons whatso ever as to why.

All he is doing is setting up people he wants to lynch with almost no reasons other than mcmc and eevee are buddying eachother.

Also I want to clarify I really think his explaination for why andrew and pps are people he would look to if I were town is indicative of him being scum. After a complete reread it's a really general reasoning that is setting up where he can pivot when I flip town. He's not even thinking about what eevee flipping town would mean which is wierd since it's an eevee/me interaction not just me. It's just very "I've made one read I'm basing all my other reads on so I can change them" I do this as scum lots.

If you are town, then Andrew and PPS were the two scummiest people in the way they moved off your wagon. I don't care if you said that, because if you are town, then I would have more reason to agree with you anyway.

If you are town, I still think Eevee's buddying would look scummy, but not quite as much as it would if you are also scum.  I don't know why any town would ever buddy anyone unless they had a confirmed result that proved to them that the person was town, so I see buddying and I automatically think the person is scummy.

"All he is doing..."  I gave reads and thoughts on why those were my scum reads. So is posting a reads list and including several scummy people on it just setting up people you want to lynch? That's kind of the point of posting reads, is so people know who you are looking at as potential lynches.

And the last paragraph was just wrong. You mean to tell me that when you are town and you have a read that you are pretty confident in and roughly a half dozen others that you are meh about, and those weak reads have interacted in various ways with your strong read such that some look more like partners and others look likely to be opposite aligned, that your reads on the other people wouldn't change depending on the actual alignment of that strong read? Yeah right.

Anyway, if Eevee flips town, then I just completely misread him, but it wouldn't affect my other reads too much except to remove the partner narrative that I saw.

Andrew, your question about me mentioning 3 conftowns. I was referring to both dead townies who ended on Mcmc's wagon and myself.  And my gut says of you and PPS, you would be scummier, but I would definitely need a reread before actually lynching. That was just my gut reactions after reading the whole game through once.

PPE 2
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 14, 2017, 11:32:18 pm
Typo: there should have been "buddying involving you two" not "you too." One of the few times where that mistake actually can change how someone interprets the comment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 15, 2017, 03:30:13 am
Vote Count 2.3

Eevee (2): Witherweaver, schadd
IDontPlayThisGame (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2): pingpongsam, AndrewisFTTW
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, Eevee
AndrewisFTTW (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 15, 2017, 07:09:25 am
i would like to lynch eevee
I think I get why but I'm curious for you to elaborate, I actually have eevee as towny currently.
i would prefer not to elaborate at this time

Do you still feel this was schadd? If so would you elaborate and if not would you at least tell us what you were thinking at the time?

i do. will later do so


I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.
i would no longer like to receive correspondences of this kind

Andrew asked, but I should refrain because your feelings?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 01:45:40 pm
It's not a secret I've townread mcmc all game - it's been on the forefront a lot because he was actually in risk of getting lynched early so it felt prudent to express that read. If you are going to read "buddying" (whatever the term entails), I think I'll be an easy scumread for you for all eternity then. I haven't gotten the feeling mcmc has been buddying me at any point, I think his read on me has been going back and forth. When you post a lot, you end up saying a lot of different things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 02:13:53 pm
It's not a secret I've townread mcmc all game - it's been on the forefront a lot because he was actually in risk of getting lynched early so it felt prudent to express that read. If you are going to read "buddying" (whatever the term entails), I think I'll be an easy scumread for you for all eternity then. I haven't gotten the feeling mcmc has been buddying me at any point, I think his read on me has been going back and forth. When you post a lot, you end up saying a lot of different things.

So it's posts like this from eevee that make me wonder why schadd and ww are still voting him. Eevee has given an accurate representation of how and why he buddied me and how and why I have read him. I get to know he is right about me and I get to know I think his reasons for viewing me as towny are reasons I believe town!eevee would have to town read me. Eevee also always gets crap mostly from scum about his buddying which is an eevee personality thing. This is a big reason I'm moving over to vote: dylan, his big posts about the interactions between me and eevee don't really go anywhere and in the end he claims eevee is scummy regardless of my flip due to his buddying. I think schadd and ww being on eevee made scum!dylan think he could get support for an eevee lynch so he scumread me and eevee's interactions and keeps saying if I'm town he will agree with my scum reads towards Andrew and pps due to the wagon movement but before he does that he still thinks eevee's scummy for finding me townie. It just seems like an all over the place non conclusive scum case.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 02:18:32 pm
request prod: robz

His last post was almost 48 hours ago.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 02:23:42 pm
Unvote

Dylan, why aren't you voting?  Your post seems to say you think Eevee is scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 15, 2017, 02:25:40 pm
request prod: robz

His last post was almost 48 hours ago.

Fine, fair. I'm here, reading, lurking, prioritizing other things at the moment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 15, 2017, 02:26:34 pm
I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.
i would no longer like to receive correspondences of this kind

Andrew asked, but I should refrain because your feelings?
he asked, but not you; anything you say about what you would have done as scum is obviously bunk
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 02:27:15 pm
At schadd and ww, you guys have to do a lot of work to get me to lynch eevee. I am still seeing his posts leaning townie. I didn't mention it in my last post but with the amount of discussion going on, if eevee is scum and he has two partners to protect him and it's been as long as it had been with no posts it's highly unlikely scum!eevee is actually in danger of getting lynched and therefor probably doesn't post at all, just let town or mafia continue to lurk.

Also my eevee read aside, you guys are saying you want to lynch on wagon, on a fast wagon that seemed to be townie backed, and you don't want to lynch one of the two people who moved off a wagon they supported and onto a wagon they hadn't previously supported one of which hammered without any warning. Again this is practically putting reads aside since I have started to town read pps but I would still lynch him for that move and hammer over eevee who unvoted an early wagon position and isn't one of the mega low posters and has been correctly town reading me for believable reasons. Like I just don't see it.
request prod: robz

His last post was almost 48 hours ago.

Ppe: witherweaver yay! Also yes I thought it was strange dylan wasnt voting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 02:35:00 pm
Didn't mean to quote myself there.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 15, 2017, 02:57:47 pm
I would not quickhammer as scum on D1. I would hammer for sure but I'd follow intent to hammer protocol.
i would no longer like to receive correspondences of this kind

Andrew asked, but I should refrain because your feelings?
he asked, but not you; anything you say about what you would have done as scum is obviously bunk

Okay, I missed the context. But no, what I say about me can still be legitimate you just can't trust it until I've flipped.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 15, 2017, 02:59:39 pm
frankly i wouldn't trust it even if you flip town here. that's sort of the question here, isn't it?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 04:27:20 pm
Reads:

schadd: Is sure I'm scum, otherwise seems like a nice fellow.
IDPTG: There have been some weird posts that have given me pause, but in the big picture I'm starting to think he just views the game differently from me, probably partially due to having played less or having played elsewhere (?). Jury is still out, the caution he is exhibiting makes me uneasy, but there have also been posts that have seemed very towny to me. Going back and forth, I guess.
TWM: I'm totally buying the "I really would post more if I had time, because he's been very engaged when here, to the point of producing some really long and hard to follow posts last page. Something doesn't feel right to me, but I don't even know what it is. Hopefully this increased activity level will sustain, should make him easier to read.
Dylan: Agree with what mcmc has been laying out. Seems.. calculated?
mcmc: Couldn't scum mcmc just let it be and hang back at some point? Especially because I feel his involvement has been pretty big in me not getting a bigger wagon, which I view as an especially towny contribution.
Robz: I don't remember anything from him one way or another. I guess there could be some meta-analysis to be made of what Robz being this inconsequential for a game might mean (probably leaning on scum more , especially as he hasn't really been needing to do anything - just townies lynched and no votes on him all game), but all in all very null.
PPS: Has he ever done anything so bold as the quickhammerscum? Especially because it didn't look like (to me anyways) scum was in much danger at the time, there was no competing wagon to Joseph at all. I guess if we at some point find out PPS was scum, we should look who stood to gain from the quickhammer, as in who could have been potential alternative targets. I'm not really loving PPS's explanations for the quickhammer, but town has bad explanations all the time.
Andrew: Feels way more present and aggressive today than he did yesterday, I would generally characterize big changes in style as towny because scum would be more cautious, but in this case it might be more Andrew getting his wings under him. I think he's posting pretty useful content for later if we get flips though, that's very good.
WW: I feel the activity and analysis combined make him pretty towny. One trait I remember marveling at as his scumbuddy has been "how can he be so fearless as to post that", I remember maybe him being more traditional and subdued in this game. I'm generally in a constant state of paranoia about WW, he is probably the hardest guy for me to read, but I'm wagering a bold townread here - don't let me down WW!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 04:29:02 pm
WW: I feel the activity and analysis combined make him pretty towny. One trait I remember marveling at as his scumbuddy has been "how can he be so fearless as to post that", I remember maybe him being more traditional and subdued in this game. I'm generally in a constant state of paranoia about WW, he is probably the hardest guy for me to read, but I'm wagering a bold townread here - don't let me down WW!

This is pretty bold of you if we're both scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 04:31:11 pm
WW: I feel the activity and analysis combined make him pretty towny. One trait I remember marveling at as his scumbuddy has been "how can he be so fearless as to post that", I remember maybe him being more traditional and subdued in this game. I'm generally in a constant state of paranoia about WW, he is probably the hardest guy for me to read, but I'm wagering a bold townread here - don't let me down WW!

This is pretty bold of you if we're both scum.
But that's impossible!

Wait, do you think that's possible?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 04:31:49 pm
WW: I feel the activity and analysis combined make him pretty towny. One trait I remember marveling at as his scumbuddy has been "how can he be so fearless as to post that", I remember maybe him being more traditional and subdued in this game. I'm generally in a constant state of paranoia about WW, he is probably the hardest guy for me to read, but I'm wagering a bold townread here - don't let me down WW!

This is pretty bold of you if we're both scum.
But that's impossible!

Wait, do you think that's possible?

I don't know; if you're scum I'm going to have to check myself.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 15, 2017, 04:37:24 pm
I agree with mcmc on Dylan, except I don't think it's necessarily scummy, I see it as a sincere attempt to reread and scumhunt and just not knowing exactly what he should be looking for and confusing a consistent townread for buddying. And also more scum points for mcmc for immediately jumping on a new player's attempt to properly contribute.

As for mcmc's other post, it's really easy (and suspicious) to call the last two people on a wagon scummy, though I happen to agree about pps being scummy for how he quickhammered. You say I jumped from one wagon to another and that's what's scummy. It is? There were a lot of other people who switched wagons yesterday including you switching from ash but I'm not pointing to it calling it scummy because it's not (correct me if I'm remembering this wrong). I think you suddenly have a scum read on me because I'm voting for you and that's pretty much the extent of it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 05:13:37 pm
I agree with mcmc on Dylan, except I don't think it's necessarily scummy, I see it as a sincere attempt to reread and scumhunt and just not knowing exactly what he should be looking for and confusing a consistent townread for buddying. And also more scum points for mcmc for immediately jumping on a new player's attempt to properly contribute.

As for mcmc's other post, it's really easy (and suspicious) to call the last two people on a wagon scummy, though I happen to agree about pps being scummy for how he quickhammered. You say I jumped from one wagon to another and that's what's scummy. It is? There were a lot of other people who switched wagons yesterday including you switching from ash but I'm not pointing to it calling it scummy because it's not (correct me if I'm remembering this wrong). I think you suddenly have a scum read on me because I'm voting for you and that's pretty much the extent of it.
In regards to your thoughts on dylan, yes you can chalk up some of his misguided cases to being a newbie but nothing I have seen from dylan in other games makes me think he is newbish player and doesn't know what he should be looking for. This is in contrast to idp who I do think might just feel awkward and not know when to post what. It is also in contrast to twm who simply wasn't making cases with his limited reads so I pushed him to do that. Again these are the theee players who were off wagon, have very low post counts, and aren't making great cases. I find all of them varying degrees of scummy, dylan the most so from his defenses and reactions to being called out.

As for my read on you it's more specific to how you moved and why. If you read I was suspicious of ash, then ash made a bit of a case on me, then I made a self admittedly omgussy countercase on ash, luckily many people weighed in robz/eevee/ww(i think)/twm and mentioned it really looked like town on town. I agreed and moved away from ash on to Joseph because he was making some very unhelpful posts at a time I thought it very scummy. Then robz/schadd/we all join me voting for Joseph and you say:
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".
You also make another post stating you agree with pps day 1 is frustrating and that if town doesn't want to lynch me because I'm being active that's okay but whose to say I won't start lurking later and that lurkers might start contributing. So this is really doubling down on you don't want to vote for Joseph and you want to lynch me. But then Joseph makes a comment about him going to claim and eevee makes a case against Joseph that is pretty much the same as my case and the reason other are voting him. You say this:
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim

And here I thought we'd left this behind earlier D1...besides, you already claimed SK. Is there a reason you want to bring us back to RVS style posts?

I agree, I don't like this claim post at all. Eevee's assessment makes sense, though I'm not sure why he didn't want to commit to a vote after making his case. I'll do it for him.

vote: Joseph L-1
So your move to Joseph come a little out of no where compared to your reads before. It also looks like you knew Joseph was at l-2 when you voted because you correctly say l-1 but you think eevee hasn't voted when he did. You correct yourself moments later but it's still strange. It feels a bit like you really preferred getting the lynch to go to me but you werent getting anywhere so once joesph looked like eevee was going to vote you quickly voted so as not to be in hammer position.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 15, 2017, 05:19:24 pm
So I have more of a scum read on andrew then I remembered.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 05:26:28 pm
Eh,

Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 15, 2017, 05:35:43 pm
I know who I really think is town and scum but my vote doesn't reflect nor many if any of my posts.

Is that cool or what?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 05:38:17 pm
I know who I really think is town and scum but my vote doesn't reflect nor many if any of my posts.

Is that cool or what?

Let's not be so open about you trying to replicate your town meta!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 05:38:24 pm
I feel we need a translator here. Anyone fluent in PPS?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 05:38:50 pm
WW joking so much about being scum is weird.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 15, 2017, 05:49:10 pm
I feel we need a translator here. Anyone fluent in PPS?

It's old hat. What you see me do is nothing about what I am doing. It's all scum traps that I just have to resist town throwing me in.

Things are coming to a head, though, it should be apparent.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 15, 2017, 05:50:34 pm
Queue some kind of music.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 15, 2017, 06:01:46 pm
Queue some kind of music.

I was thinking something from Benny Hill.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 06:02:00 pm
I'm thinking the song from Jaws.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 15, 2017, 06:12:00 pm
To say that me making a misguided case is scummy for me indicates that you clearly haven't read my last few games... Although I don't actually think I'm wrong here, I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much if I am just because of recent history.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 15, 2017, 06:16:55 pm
But I do recognize that I haven't made a proper case yet on anyone really, which is the main reason I'm not actually voting yet. My last two long posts were meant to be informative, not persuasive. I wanted everyone to be able review the Eevee and mcmc interactions in their entirety to see if my gut was right or not. In the end, I saw less of it from mcmc to Eevee than I thought I would, but even when I consistently town read someone, I never reject all evidence or arguments that they are scum out of hand unless I have PR evidence that confirms it. The fact Eevee consistently defends mcmc seems more like buddying to me than a normal strong townread.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 15, 2017, 06:23:28 pm
Dylan: Agree with what mcmc has been laying out. Seems.. calculated?

From my perspective it looks like he felt pressure to post something of great substance. I think Dylan even commented on that earlier. You could probably make a meme out of it.

Is told he is scummy because he isn't posting substance
{picture of Dylan's avatar}
Gets told he is scummy when he tries to produce something of substance.

Which isn't to say that we shouldn't necessarily analyze it, but I do understand that being told you need to post something makes you feel a little (or a lot) more compelled to go and try and find something and I think my posts have somewhat reflected feeling that pressure as well.

So I would call it forced rather than calculated. And I think there is a difference.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 15, 2017, 06:24:11 pm
To say that me making a misguided case is scummy for me indicates that you clearly haven't read my last few games... Although I don't actually think I'm wrong here, I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much if I am just because of recent history.

Although I dislike this sort of self reflective/depreciative post quite a bit.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 15, 2017, 06:26:37 pm
As for my read on you it's more specific to how you moved and why. If you read I was suspicious of ash, then ash made a bit of a case on me, then I made a self admittedly omgussy countercase on ash, luckily many people weighed in robz/eevee/ww(i think)/twm and mentioned it really looked like town on town. I agreed and moved away from ash on to Joseph because he was making some very unhelpful posts at a time I thought it very scummy. Then robz/schadd/we all join me voting for Joseph and you say:
What's the case on Joseph?

I don't think there was ever an answer to this question, although I'm guessing the case is "too much joking around".
You also make another post stating you agree with pps day 1 is frustrating and that if town doesn't want to lynch me because I'm being active that's okay but whose to say I won't start lurking later and that lurkers might start contributing. So this is really doubling down on you don't want to vote for Joseph and you want to lynch me. But then Joseph makes a comment about him going to claim and eevee makes a case against Joseph that is pretty much the same as my case and the reason other are voting him. You say this:
Maybe someone should start claiming.
Unless I get 6 objections in the next 3 hours, I will claim

And here I thought we'd left this behind earlier D1...besides, you already claimed SK. Is there a reason you want to bring us back to RVS style posts?

I agree, I don't like this claim post at all. Eevee's assessment makes sense, though I'm not sure why he didn't want to commit to a vote after making his case. I'll do it for him.

vote: Joseph L-1
So your move to Joseph come a little out of no where compared to your reads before. It also looks like you knew Joseph was at l-2 when you voted because you correctly say l-1 but you think eevee hasn't voted when he did. You correct yourself moments later but it's still strange. It feels a bit like you really preferred getting the lynch to go to me but you werent getting anywhere so once joesph looked like eevee was going to vote you quickly voted so as not to be in hammer position.

Well it was very clear that we weren't going to lynch you and I didn't really have any scum reads on anyone else. I didn't have a problem with him joking earlier really but at that point I thought it was a little much and I thought RVS lasted way too long anyway. Honestly I didn't even think we were going to lynch Joseph. I expectesd him to claim and then maybe a couple people to unvote and then we could argue some more and decide on a better lynch but.... pps happened.

As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 15, 2017, 06:36:38 pm
By the way I think it's interesting mcmc says I'm scummy for voting when I did because I supposedly didn't want to hammer but says nothing about these votes:

Vote: Joseph

Vote: Joseph

indeed

vote: joseph

Confirming what I said earlier about only focusing on the last people to vote on the wagon. Easy and convenient.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 15, 2017, 06:38:11 pm
For the record,  it probably seems I'm way more certain about mcmc than I actually am, I could see him being scum. It feels redundant to write "it's still only day 2 and any of these reads could change completely, especially with pr information", but of course things could change still.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 15, 2017, 06:54:19 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Did Dylan ever explain what that was all about? If not, Dylan, could you explain what that was all about?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 15, 2017, 09:42:48 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Did Dylan ever explain what that was all about? If not, Dylan, could you explain what that was all about?

So according to the terminology page, if you declare DAMA, you have to answer every answer truthfully even up to admitting you are scum. When I read and posted that, the site still showed he was online. I noticed he either went offline or the computer finally updated and showed he was offline after that, and so I thought someone who knew what DAMA was would likely know the line about having to answer truthfully. If the roles were flipped, I know I would have just gone offline and acted like I didn't see it rather than posting a lie or admitting to being scum. Thus I made a note of it. However, I am not actually naive enough to expect someone to actually admit to being scum, which is why I said it was a small note not worthy of being the basis of a read, but a note nonetheless because it is what I would have done if confronted by that scenario. (not that I ever would be because I don't actually drink)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 15, 2017, 09:45:42 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Did Dylan ever explain what that was all about? If not, Dylan, could you explain what that was all about?

But of everything else that is happened and my recent posts, this is what you want to ask me about?  The timing of this question seems kind of scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 15, 2017, 10:15:12 pm
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Did Dylan ever explain what that was all about? If not, Dylan, could you explain what that was all about?

But of everything else that is happened and my recent posts, this is what you want to ask me about?  The timing of this question seems kind of scummy.

Oh, yeah, the timing's awful. I play this game on my phone and I have two tabs to this game open. One is the current page, the other is all the posts that I refresh every now and then. Apparently that post is where I left off on my last attempted reread so it was the first thing I saw when I switched tabs. So it came to mind. But I don't see how the timing has anything to do with the seriousness of the question. Especially because the DAMA entry doesn't say what you say it does.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 12:13:45 am
So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Did Dylan ever explain what that was all about? If not, Dylan, could you explain what that was all about?

But of everything else that is happened and my recent posts, this is what you want to ask me about?  The timing of this question seems kind of scummy.

Oh, yeah, the timing's awful. I play this game on my phone and I have two tabs to this game open. One is the current page, the other is all the posts that I refresh every now and then. Apparently that post is where I left off on my last attempted reread so it was the first thing I saw when I switched tabs. So it came to mind. But I don't see how the timing has anything to do with the seriousness of the question. Especially because the DAMA entry doesn't say what you say it does.

Well, now that I reread it, it is definitely less forceful in describing DAMA than what I remembered. Had I realized that it said "possibly even admitting" as opposed to more being required to answer, there's 0 chance I would have actually made that comment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 16, 2017, 01:42:36 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 02:16:37 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?

Ok so if I was scum what exactly would I have to gain from putting Joseph at L-1 and then pretending like I missed Eevee's vote and then pretending like I noticed it immediately afterwards?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 02:30:41 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Way more than it should. But I do buy andrew's explanation, I don't really see the scum narrative for pretending to not notice and then correcting the mistake yourself.

Airport posting!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 16, 2017, 03:45:27 am
Vote Count 2.1+3

Eevee (1): schadd
mcmcsalot (2): pingpongsam, AndrewisFTTW
Dylan32 (3): Robz888, Eevee, mcmcsalot
AndrewisFTTW (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 09:39:01 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Way more than it should. But I do buy andrew's explanation, I don't really see the scum narrative for pretending to not notice and then correcting the mistake yourself.

Airport posting!

It's not scummy to have missed an l-2. Its just interesting to note that Andrew thought he was making an l-1 vote while also taking a shot at eevee for not voting after making a case. Meaning andrew is casting what he thinks is an l-1 vote and expecting eevee to hammer. Scum would want to vote then instead of waiting for eevee to vote and then having to be the hammer. It's just a possible scum narrative that would fit for why he voted Joseph when he did.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 16, 2017, 11:19:58 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?

Ok so if I was scum what exactly would I have to gain from putting Joseph at L-1 and then pretending like I missed Eevee's vote and then pretending like I noticed it immediately afterwards?

Nothing. I believe you that it was an accident.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 11:28:48 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Way more than it should. But I do buy andrew's explanation, I don't really see the scum narrative for pretending to not notice and then correcting the mistake yourself.

Airport posting!

It's not scummy to have missed an l-2. Its just interesting to note that Andrew thought he was making an l-1 vote while also taking a shot at eevee for not voting after making a case. Meaning andrew is casting what he thinks is an l-1 vote and expecting eevee to hammer. Scum would want to vote then instead of waiting for eevee to vote and then having to be the hammer. It's just a possible scum narrative that would fit for why he voted Joseph when he did.

Expecting Eevee to hammer? Whahuhziwhat?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 11:54:32 am
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Way more than it should. But I do buy andrew's explanation, I don't really see the scum narrative for pretending to not notice and then correcting the mistake yourself.

Airport posting!

It's not scummy to have missed an l-2. Its just interesting to note that Andrew thought he was making an l-1 vote while also taking a shot at eevee for not voting after making a case. Meaning andrew is casting what he thinks is an l-1 vote and expecting eevee to hammer. Scum would want to vote then instead of waiting for eevee to vote and then having to be the hammer. It's just a possible scum narrative that would fit for why he voted Joseph when he did.

Expecting Eevee to hammer? Whahuhziwhat?
Yea you said you agreed with eevee's conclusions and weren't sure why he didn't vote. You said I'll do it for him, and posted your vote with an l-1. So we assume you understood your vote was placing Joseph at l-1 and we assume you expect eevee to vote Joseph after coming to the conclusions he did. This is just a theory though, I know I'm town so I'm not sure you as scum even need to move from me to Joseph, it's just one theory that when added to other theories all put together might make a good case for you being scum. I am not voting for you currently.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 12:02:35 pm
As for me knowing my vote was L-1 but not catching Eevee's vote... I dunno. Maybe I saw the vote count before Eevee voted and misread it somehow.

Maybe it's because of the way I vote, but this just doesn't seem right.

@Anyone-but-Andrew is it semi-common for people to miss L-1s and 2s?
Way more than it should. But I do buy andrew's explanation, I don't really see the scum narrative for pretending to not notice and then correcting the mistake yourself.

Airport posting!

It's not scummy to have missed an l-2. Its just interesting to note that Andrew thought he was making an l-1 vote while also taking a shot at eevee for not voting after making a case. Meaning andrew is casting what he thinks is an l-1 vote and expecting eevee to hammer. Scum would want to vote then instead of waiting for eevee to vote and then having to be the hammer. It's just a possible scum narrative that would fit for why he voted Joseph when he did.

Expecting Eevee to hammer? Whahuhziwhat?
Yea you said you agreed with eevee's conclusions and weren't sure why he didn't vote. You said I'll do it for him, and posted your vote with an l-1. So we assume you understood your vote was placing Joseph at l-1 and we assume you expect eevee to vote Joseph after coming to the conclusions he did. This is just a theory though, I know I'm town so I'm not sure you as scum even need to move from me to Joseph, it's just one theory that when added to other theories all put together might make a good case for you being scum. I am not voting for you currently.

Actually I was just questioning why Eevee didn't vote as I would do to anyone, that doesn't mean I expected him to hammer. Keep stretching.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 12:19:46 pm
Your right andrew I'm sorry I'll stop coming up with possible narratives for what people have done because it's a stretch. I'm sorry I don't know your alignment so everything I say is going to be a stretch. Doesn't mean it's not helpful to put it out there as a possible narrative.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 12:29:20 pm
Andrew you are still voting for me as well. Do you really think I'm scum and I'm trying to force your mislynch or set up your mislynch while also making sure we focus off wagon and try to lynch lurkers dylan/idp/twm. You think me and eevee are partners and buddying eachother for no reason like dylan? What's the narrative that fits me doing all of this work and putting out narratives and different cases on most players in the game and actively giving reads and thoughts. You think I'm doing all that in a game where without prompting robz/twm/dylan/idp will post almost no content...you seem just pissed off im not assuming you are town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 12:45:15 pm
Andrew you are still voting for me as well. Do you really think I'm scum and I'm trying to force your mislynch or set up your mislynch while also making sure we focus off wagon and try to lynch lurkers dylan/idp/twm. You think me and eevee are partners and buddying eachother for no reason like dylan? What's the narrative that fits me doing all of this work and putting out narratives and different cases on most players in the game and actively giving reads and thoughts. You think I'm doing all that in a game where without prompting robz/twm/dylan/idp will post almost no content...you seem just pissed off im not assuming you are town.

I resent the comment that I wouldn't post without prompting. I was busy IRL, I started posting as soon as I could.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 12:51:28 pm
And as for what's the narrative for you doing all this, what you described is exactly what scum wants to do.
1) Build a case on Andrew to set up his mislynch - yes scum would do this. And I like how you straight up say Andrew is a mislynch.
2) Focus on the lurkers off wagon - yes scum on wagon would want focus there. Lurkers are easy and uninformative mislynch targets.
3) Buddying - Makes more sense for scum than for town to me.
4) Build cases on most every player in the game - yeah the more you can keep other people focused on other people, the better position scum!you is in.
5) Actively giving reads and thoughts - ideal play by both alignments would do that.

So don't act like it is impossible for someone to see your play as scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 12:54:49 pm
And yes, scum would also try to do 1 and 2 at the same time, because if town's attention is divided, it'll be harder for them to consolidate and easier to manipulate towards the desired mislynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 01:00:49 pm
Your right andrew I'm sorry I'll stop coming up with possible narratives for what people have done because it's a stretch. I'm sorry I don't know your alignment so everything I say is going to be a stretch. Doesn't mean it's not helpful to put it out there as a possible narrative.

Not everything you say is a stretch, but this whole me pretending I missed Eevee's vote in hopes that he hammers fr some reason is most definitely a stretch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:02:38 pm
I shouldn't have said you wouldn't post without prompting I'm just upset. I was speaking as though andrew is town so his lynch would be a mislynch. If andrew is scum I don't really care what he thinks about my narrative for him being scum. If he's town I want him to think through why I've come to the conclusion I came to(it's plausible) and point out all the other things that I'm doing that are clearly attempts at getting thoughts and discussions going because we have lots of people not doing that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 01:04:26 pm
Wait eevee, so are you going to actually be gone for more than a week or something? And have a safe trip!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 01:05:00 pm
Andrew you are still voting for me as well. Do you really think I'm scum and I'm trying to force your mislynch or set up your mislynch while also making sure we focus off wagon and try to lynch lurkers dylan/idp/twm. You think me and eevee are partners and buddying eachother for no reason like dylan? What's the narrative that fits me doing all of this work and putting out narratives and different cases on most players in the game and actively giving reads and thoughts. You think I'm doing all that in a game where without prompting robz/twm/dylan/idp will post almost no content...you seem just pissed off im not assuming you are town.

You're obviously not going all out but if you're attacking me I'm going to defend, especially if I think your case is unfounded or suspect, like this whole L-1 business.

But anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the other votes on the wagon like I posted earlier. You singled me out but never addressed the other votes that have 0 substance.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:07:12 pm
Your right andrew I'm sorry I'll stop coming up with possible narratives for what people have done because it's a stretch. I'm sorry I don't know your alignment so everything I say is going to be a stretch. Doesn't mean it's not helpful to put it out there as a possible narrative.

Not everything you say is a stretch, but this whole me pretending I missed Eevee's vote in hopes that he hammers fr some reason is most definitely a stretch.

It's not pretending. You missed eevee's vote(fact), you were aware Joseph was at l-2 before you voted(fact), you expected eevee to vote for Joseph(fact you said I don't know why eevee didn't vote). SO ONE COULD CONCLUDE, that you wanted to get on the Joseph wagon before it's got brought up to l-1 and then you would have to hammer if you were going to vote.

ONE COULD ALSO CONCLUDE, that after not finding Joseph scummy his continued unhelpfulness and posts about claiming convinced you that maybe he was scum so you voted for him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:07:45 pm
I have talked about the other votes. I guess I'll go back and find my own content to repost.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:09:08 pm
request prod: robz

His last post was almost 48 hours ago.

Fine, fair. I'm here, reading, lurking, prioritizing other things at the moment.

If this doesn't happen soon I'm requesting your replacement. Another 23 hours down and still nothing. We lynched town d1, were going to lose later because we have no idea of your alignment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:16:52 pm
Before I forget ash wanted the restless spirit to claim, let's discuss that. If we have VV we only have the governor so restless spirit not claiming(if we have one) keeps how many V's we've got hidden.

Maybe I was too quick to say the ub shouldn't claim. It would be nice if we accidentally mislynch the ub and they can pull off the actual governor lynch prevention into their death overnight but idk.

Maybe if we have a restless spirit they can claim because if they die we still get there vote, and then if a restless spirit claims we can have the ub claim and then we have two ic's and only one can die overnight?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:18:00 pm
Yea pps thinking there would be a short twilight in combination with that signature has me tilted back scummy on pps. Also Andrew feels like part of the conversation.

Nice buddying.
See even that feel like your responding quickly to what I'm saying like were having a conversation, scum never wants to do that, they are more careful in their image and can thus come across like they are waiting for moments where they can make a comment that looks good for them.

Fun throwback to when Andrew thought I was buddying him...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:34:06 pm
Vote Count 1.3

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, Robz888
Eevee (2): schadd, Joseph2302
The_Wine_Merchant (1): pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): Eevee

Not Voting (2): The_Wine_Merchant, IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.

Around this time I make some defenses of myself and Robz/eevee/witherweaver/schaad all defend me in some way or another for what I think are good reasons.

Dylan, pps, and Andrew all post reasons they find me scummy.

Next ashersky and I get into a bit and I begin to omgus him and witherweaver and robz both point out how much this looks like town on town and that they don't want to lynch either of us. This almond with TWM coming in and townreading me as well seems to stall my wagon and I turn away from ash toward Joseph for being unhelpful and scummy.

Eevee suggests looking into the lowcontent posters but doesn't and then asks what the case is on Joseph.

Vote Count 1.3+1

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Witherweaver
mcmcsalot (3+1): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, pingpongsam
Eevee (1): schadd
Joseph2302 (2): Eevee, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant
pingpongsam (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888

With 13-1 alive, it takes 5+2 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, Mar. 13-2 at 8+1pm forum time.
Vote: mcmx

L-2
I believe this is the height of my wagon. And right after this robz/ww/schadd/eevee vote for Joseph. This feel a ton like townies honestly not liking the wagon on me getting so close to lynch without another option and so the person I'm pushing makes sense to join. This is what evens our wagons out.

It is then with this vote that andrew finally changes his opinion and moves his vote away from me and onto Joseph, quickly followed by pps who hammers a few posts after having said he would agree to disagree about my alignment.

The real people who had strange inorganic movements here are andrew and pps. The issue is that Joseph was acting increasingly scummy so it's very possible that's the actual moments that town!andrew and town!pps had had enough.

Here is the bulk of what I say about robz/eevee/ww/schaad's votes. Obviously it's hard to create more of a narrative for robz because he hasn't posted anything, I think eevee's vote made sense, you agreed with his analysis of Joseph yourself and he was town reading me so his vote makes sense, schadd I am majorly town reading based on how he is playing the game, overall pro town, high post counts, present.

I guess I should at some point do a ww reread next but I am town reading him as well so there you go. I'm doing my best while getting called scummy for laying out possible narratives. luckily there are enough people(hopefully townies) that see what I'm doing as townie.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:40:39 pm
Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

The issue being twm/dylan/eevee could also be the scum team with eevee buddying me much the way I buddied faust recently, get an active townie to push lynches for you, didn't come to much bigger conclusions than anyone else, and have his scum partners just lurk the entire day away.

Now being forced to pick between these types of narratives(these aren't the only two teams just examples) I absolutely don't want to punish active town andrew and pps for having slightly different opinions than me, especially because mine were wrong about Joseph in the first place. I would much rather lose to pps and andrew because twm and Dylan and idp just lurked way to hard as town. If that makes sense.

Here is where I go more in depth into the on wagon players and there votes  vs off wagon players. The lurking has been cleared up, twm and dylan and idp explained themselves and I decided I found Dylan's explainations the scummiest though it's good to note robz is currently on dylan because I originally put forward idp as the scummiest one and robz that made robz nervous. I doubt robz/dylan are on the same team which is very helpful. .
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:44:06 pm
Robz was viewing the thread but disappeared, Hopefully takin a break mid reread.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 01:58:17 pm
Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

Oh so the last three people to vote on a mislynch are the scummiest. Cool, got it. Sarcasm aside though, I think pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Quote
It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

ash was a null read for me D1, why would you expect me to discourage people moving to him? That's misleading and is obviously an attempt to subtly encourage suspicion without committing to it heavily.

mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

Oh look andrew your response last time I talked about on wagon vs off wagon you also find the end of the wagon scummy and you also think looking off wagon is good. So you now saying that I singled you out is crap. Your playing super super reactively to whatever the last thing posted is which is super scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 16, 2017, 01:59:12 pm
You're still voting Dylan, right, McMc?  You seem to be working yourself up to Andrew being scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 02:03:53 pm
Leaning scum on: Dylan, andrew, robz, twm, pps

Leaning town on: schadd, witherweaver, eevee, idptg
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 02:04:48 pm
You're still voting Dylan, right, McMc?  You seem to be working yourself up to Andrew being scum.
Still voting dylan, still think off wagon is a good place to find scum. Dylan has the bonus of semi-clearing robz if he flips scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 02:08:30 pm
what would be the benefit of claiming ub?

Scum can make sure to avoid killing him during the day where he can reverse the lynch and then get him at night?

Or maybe, in the absence of a counter claim, we can trust the reads and he can't be lynched but see point number 1.

So, net negative, really.

I missed that claiming was discussed a bit. So yea having just the ub isn't worth it but idk what people think about the restless spirit claiming if it exists and that prompting the ub to claim. Or we save all that for tomorrow since I'm comfortable with our lynch options.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 02:40:56 pm
Robz was viewing the thread but disappeared, Hopefully takin a break mid reread.

I thought town wasn't as likely to do online status watching? /sarc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 02:49:58 pm
Robz was viewing the thread but disappeared, Hopefully takin a break mid reread.

I thought town wasn't as likely to do online status watching? /sarc
I know you said sarcasm but I've never said town is less likely to do online status waitching. You can confirm with robz I actually didn't know how to use it untill my recent return. I used it to coordinate my quickhammer with twm and then I used it in squid girl to generally track when town was on and coordinate a possible quickhammer in that game as well. I have been using it frequently in this game to track what people are doing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 16, 2017, 02:53:52 pm
Robz was viewing the thread but disappeared, Hopefully takin a break mid reread.

I thought town wasn't as likely to do online status watching? /sarc

Though if your town it would be great to check who it was that said that earlier, and maybe make some conclusions based on actual game things instead of making a joke at me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 03:23:57 pm
I didn't actually mean to imply you were the one that said that. Just that it had been said. My sarcasm was directed at whoever said it.

And after looking it up:

My vote on Dylan (and it's reasons).

Why do you think town is more likely to do online status policing than scum?

I don't know if there is any precedent, but my intuition would be that scum would be more likely to be on the lookout for these kind of "mishaps" that could make someone suspicious than town.

Hey look. Eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 03:26:22 pm
and he was replying to Andrew, who said watching online status was "Town all day."
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 03:27:01 pm
Andrew, I'm curious what you think about that comment now that mcmc has also done that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 04:36:27 pm
No wifi in the airbnb of first four days unfortunately, so very sporadic access for now. :/
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 04:46:01 pm
Wait eevee, so are you going to actually be gone for more than a week or something? And have a safe trip!
No, I'll try to get on whenever I can, daily I hope. And changing accommodations in three days, hopefully the next one will have a wifi.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 04:48:26 pm
You're still voting Dylan, right, McMc?  You seem to be working yourself up to Andrew being scum.
Still voting dylan, still think off wagon is a good place to find scum. Dylan has the bonus of semi-clearing robz if he flips scum.
Why is that? (dylan->robz)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 04:56:38 pm
My point was rather to not give towncred for it, I don't necessarily think it's scummy. Depends on the person i guess, i just think scum is more eager to justify their votes with external because they know they are voting anti-town.

I don't think there are catch-all scumtells like that anyways.

Im warming up to an andrew lynch. There seems to be a huge contrast in his playstyle compared to yesterday, and he seems to be overreacting to things constantly. Hmm.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 16, 2017, 04:57:57 pm
Votes speak louder than hedges.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 16, 2017, 05:07:31 pm
Votes speak louder than hedges.

Agreed.

The time has come. Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 05:08:35 pm
vote: andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 16, 2017, 05:17:19 pm
(L-2)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 16, 2017, 05:43:19 pm
Andrew you are still voting for me as well. Do you really think I'm scum and I'm trying to force your mislynch or set up your mislynch while also making sure we focus off wagon and try to lynch lurkers dylan/idp/twm. You think me and eevee are partners and buddying eachother for no reason like dylan? What's the narrative that fits me doing all of this work and putting out narratives and different cases on most players in the game and actively giving reads and thoughts. You think I'm doing all that in a game where without prompting robz/twm/dylan/idp will post almost no content...you seem just pissed off im not assuming you are town.

I resent the comment that I wouldn't post without prompting. I was busy IRL, I started posting as soon as I could.

Likewise. But as much as it annoys me to say it I feel like this sort of high mindedness is more likely to come from town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 16, 2017, 05:46:06 pm
Votes speak louder than hedges.

Agreed.

The time has come. Vote: Andrew

was that the big reveal?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 16, 2017, 05:54:42 pm
I am still voting for andrew and feel ok about staying there. I didn't necessarily find the whole L-1/L-2 thing to be suspicious, but I have not really liked the way he has responded to suspicion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 06:31:30 pm
Your right andrew I'm sorry I'll stop coming up with possible narratives for what people have done because it's a stretch. I'm sorry I don't know your alignment so everything I say is going to be a stretch. Doesn't mean it's not helpful to put it out there as a possible narrative.

Not everything you say is a stretch, but this whole me pretending I missed Eevee's vote in hopes that he hammers fr some reason is most definitely a stretch.

It's not pretending. You missed eevee's vote(fact), you were aware Joseph was at l-2 before you voted(fact), you expected eevee to vote for Joseph(fact you said I don't know why eevee didn't vote). SO ONE COULD CONCLUDE, that you wanted to get on the Joseph wagon before it's got brought up to l-1 and then you would have to hammer if you were going to vote.

ONE COULD ALSO CONCLUDE, that after not finding Joseph scummy his continued unhelpfulness and posts about claiming convinced you that maybe he was scum so you voted for him.

First of all why would you say one could conclude I wanted to get on Joseph's wagon before L-1 when I'm the one who knowingly put him to L-1? And just because I vote someone doesn't mean I have to be committed to hammering.

I wouldn't say his unhelpfulness and posts about claiming convinced me he was scum. I didn't have any scum reads besides you yesterday and it was clear we weren't going to lynch you so I figured "well Joseph is still acting like it's RVS, that's a little weird" and that was enough for me to vote him. Not enough to be lynched, in my opinion but enough to vote and provoke some discussion which was quickly stifled by pps.

I believe this is the height of my wagon. And right after this robz/ww/schadd/eevee vote for Joseph. This feel a ton like townies honestly not liking the wagon on me getting so close to lynch without another option and so the person I'm pushing makes sense to join. This is what evens our wagons out.

It is then with this vote that andrew finally changes his opinion and moves his vote away from me and onto Joseph, quickly followed by pps who hammers a few posts after having said he would agree to disagree about my alignment.

The real people who had strange inorganic movements here are andrew and pps. The issue is that Joseph was acting increasingly scummy so it's very possible that's the actual moments that town!andrew and town!pps had had enough.

Here is the bulk of what I say about robz/eevee/ww/schaad's votes. Obviously it's hard to create more of a narrative for robz because he hasn't posted anything, I think eevee's vote made sense, you agreed with his analysis of Joseph yourself and he was town reading me so his vote makes sense, schadd I am majorly town reading based on how he is playing the game, overall pro town, high post counts, present.

I guess I should at some point do a ww reread next but I am town reading him as well so there you go. I'm doing my best while getting called scummy for laying out possible narratives. luckily there are enough people(hopefully townies) that see what I'm doing as townie.

Here's what I get from this:

1) Robz, WW, and schadd's votes are all ok because they don't actually want to lynch me because they know I'm town.
mcmc quote: "This feel a ton like townies honestly not liking the wagon on me getting so close to lynch without another option and so the person I'm pushing makes sense to join"

2) Andrew and pps are scummy because they voted last.
mcmc quote: "The real people who had strange inorganic movements here are andrew and pps."

3) Eevee's vote makes sense because he has a town read on me.
mcmc quote: "I think eevee's vote made sense, you agreed with his analysis of Joseph yourself and he was town reading me so his vote makes sense"

4) I'm going to ignore WW because I have a town read on him.
mcmc quote: "I guess I should at some point do a ww reread next but I am town reading him as well so there you go."

I believe this is the height of my wagon. And right after this robz/ww/schadd/eevee vote for Joseph. This feel a ton like townies honestly not liking the wagon on me getting so close to lynch without another option and so the person I'm pushing makes sense to join. This is what evens our wagons out.

It is then with this vote that andrew finally changes his opinion and moves his vote away from me and onto Joseph, quickly followed by pps who hammers a few posts after having said he would agree to disagree about my alignment.

The real people who had strange inorganic movements here are andrew and pps. The issue is that Joseph was acting increasingly scummy so it's very possible that's the actual moments that town!andrew and town!pps had had enough.

Here is the bulk of what I say about robz/eevee/ww/schaad's votes. Obviously it's hard to create more of a narrative for robz because he hasn't posted anything, I think eevee's vote made sense, you agreed with his analysis of Joseph yourself and he was town reading me so his vote makes sense, schadd I am majorly town reading based on how he is playing the game, overall pro town, high post counts, present.

I guess I should at some point do a ww reread next but I am town reading him as well so there you go. I'm doing my best while getting called scummy for laying out possible narratives. luckily there are enough people(hopefully townies) that see what I'm doing as townie.

Here's what I get from this:

1) Robz, schadd, and WW's votes make sense because they have a town read on me.
mcmc quote: "I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct"

2) Eevee, Andrew, and pps all voted last so they're the most suspicious.
mcmc quote:  "I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew"

3) I am conf!town and pps and Andrew are scummy because they didn't tell people to not vote for ash and they were the last two people to vote for Joseph.
mcmc quote: "pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie [I think you mean yourself?], didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph."

4) Thou shalt not OMGUS vote.
mcmc quote: "I absolutely don't want to punish active town andrew and pps for having slightly different opinions than me"

5) Votes with no content (Robz/schadd/ww) are OK if you have a town read on me, but lurking with no explanation is not.
mcmc quote: "The lurking has been cleared up, twm and dylan and idp explained themselves"

And now this:

Yea I think the big bummer in this game is that after what was pretty much a complete reread of the days major wagons and how they formed, I feel like I have solid town reads on robz/schadd/ww they have me pegged as town which is correct, they pegged ash correctly as town, their votes for the dead townie Joseph all make sense. I then have decent narratives for pps, eevee, and Andrew which I could see going either way, town or scum and then I have TWM, idp, and dylan which are all so null due to how little they posted it's impossible to figure out which way to tilt the narratives for pps/andrew/eevee.

Oh so the last three people to vote on a mislynch are the scummiest. Cool, got it. Sarcasm aside though, I think pps's vote is scummy. It looks like he thought a quickhammer would gain him towncred which I'm not willing to grant him.

Quote
It's like pps/andrew/idp could very easily be the scum team. Idp is lurky off wagon, pps and Andrew were pushing for the lynch of an active townie, didn't overly discourage people from moving to ashersky, and finally left all prior reads and hammered townie!joseph. That's one narrative that makes good sense and I could see being true.

ash was a null read for me D1, why would you expect me to discourage people moving to him? That's misleading and is obviously an attempt to subtly encourage suspicion without committing to it heavily.

mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

Oh look andrew your response last time I talked about on wagon vs off wagon you also find the end of the wagon scummy and you also think looking off wagon is good. So you now saying that I singled you out is crap. Your playing super super reactively to whatever the last thing posted is which is super scummy.

Where do I say I find the end of the wagon scummy? Unless you're referring to my sarcasm when I said "Oh so the last three people to vote on a mislynch are the scummiest. Cool, got it." And yeah I thought looking off wagon was a good idea, when did I say it wasn't a good idea? And I don't think I ever said you singled me out, or at least I didn't mean to. I've always said you've only looked at the end of the wagon and not at the three votes with no substance behind them and now by reading through all of this I see it's because those three voters apparently had town reads on you, which makes them perfectly fine and not suspicious in your book.

As for my playstyle, well I don't know what to say there. I just post my thoughts, my suspicions, pose questions when I want to dig deeper, and defend myself when I feel I have to.

Andrew, I'm curious what you think about that comment now that mcmc has also done that.

When I said it was "town all day" I was referring to that specific post. But regardless what IDP (I think it was him) was doing was trying to use it for scumhunting. To me this just looks like mcmc telling everyone he hopes Robz comes back soon.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 06:37:53 pm
I am still voting for andrew and feel ok about staying there. I didn't necessarily find the whole L-1/L-2 thing to be suspicious, but I have not really liked the way he has responded to suspicion.

Yes I understand that I'm defensive and sarcastic and maybe a little impatient and rude, but I don't think there's anything inherently scummy about my playstyle, just like I don't cite WW's style of play today (somewhat lurking, posting sentences here and there, egging people on) as necessarily scummy. Maybe it's just me but I try to look at content and reads. I've never been good at reading metas so I usually try to avoid talking in those terms.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 06:46:47 pm
Another thing I think is not inherently scummy is changing reads. I think some people are scared to reverse their vote or honestly express what their reads are in light of new developments because other people will consistently jump on them for not committing to an original read. The fact is reads change and I don't think it's fair to just point to someone changing their vote and call it scummy by simply saying something like "this feels inorganic" or "he changed his vote out of nowhere". Obviously the onus is on the person changing their vote to explain how their read changed in the first place but as long as that's clear I don't think that is a legitimate reason by itself to call someone scummy.... unless you're scum.

Alright, I'm off my soapbox now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 16, 2017, 06:54:35 pm
pps, would you like to elaborate on why you are confident enough andrew is scum to not try to get the hammer?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 16, 2017, 07:03:09 pm
Ok, I really don't like the Andrew wagon. I could be convinced, but probably not easily. I need to reread how it formed, but I won't have time for the next several hours.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 16, 2017, 07:14:48 pm
also, who else here can do setup probabilities?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 16, 2017, 07:34:49 pm
mcmc, can you describe eevee's scum play to me?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 16, 2017, 07:46:16 pm
Will catch up tomorrow
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 16, 2017, 08:03:28 pm
I am still voting for andrew and feel ok about staying there. I didn't necessarily find the whole L-1/L-2 thing to be suspicious, but I have not really liked the way he has responded to suspicion.

Yes I understand that I'm defensive and sarcastic and maybe a little impatient and rude, but I don't think there's anything inherently scummy about my playstyle, just like I don't cite WW's style of play today (somewhat lurking, posting sentences here and there, egging people on) as necessarily scummy. Maybe it's just me but I try to look at content and reads. I've never been good at reading metas so I usually try to avoid talking in those terms.

I wouldn't call you any of those terms, and I agree that even if I felt that way about them, they wouldn't necessarily be scummy.

What I meant, and what I should have been more clear about above, was how you have felt compelled to respond to every point about you. It seems like you are giving more credence to every remark about you, which is precisely how I felt when I was last scum. I feel like town lets things slide off their back more often whereas scum is hyper aware and feels like any suspicion could escalate, so you need to put the damper on it quick. Last game mcmc pointed out I was doing it in the scum QT and it was still really hard to check myself.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 16, 2017, 09:04:16 pm
Ok, I really don't like the Andrew wagon. I could be convinced, but probably not easily. I need to reread how it formed, but I won't have time for the next several hours.

What do you like?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 16, 2017, 09:04:32 pm
also, who else here can do setup probabilities?

Everyone can, but no one should.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 16, 2017, 09:07:08 pm
i kind of agree, but it's fun.


totally forgot about you l0l
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 16, 2017, 09:11:12 pm
pps, would you like to elaborate on why you are confident enough andrew is scum to not try to get the hammer?

The hammer was never about certainty. Besides, only scum can afford certainties. D1 I really read mcmc as scum driving the game. Maybe he still is but he's doing such a damn fine job of it I am being absorbed in his frame of it too. I am strongly reading town on mcmc practically all of D2. My initial suspicion on him was for enacting a scum meta I am personally familiar with in myself. He has far surpassed my ability to engender town vibrations while playing against a secretly scum meta. To the point my ego requires me to categorize it as strictly town.

So, that wasn't about Andrew at all. Mcmc made points about Andrew I silently concurred with. So, in some sense I am sheeeping him. That Andrew supposedly reads scum in mcmc to the point of voting him means that Andrew must be better at sensing the scum in the best scum performance ever and my ego will not support that so it requires me to categorize him as strictly scum. If Andrew outdoes PPS then who is PPS?

But enough about that. I initially decided Andrew was likely scum because the off wagon thing, while definitely a scum tactic in scum hands, is not a terrible argument to make. I think it's reasonable that one of the 3 are scum. I'm just required to poo poo it initially to create some tension to see where it might break. But no, the turn of my opinion was when he joined me in voting mcmc. When I implied my vote was disingenuous he didn't seek a better one which makes me think he probably can't read the game nearly as good as would be required to see scum in scum!mcmc this game.

All that said, those are just the gut reasons. I think some due diligence is actually in order. I'm even tempted to unvote but I think there's going to be some switching here real soon and if he goes down anyhow and flips town then while I can't claim hammer my vote is just as good as the hammer because I'm not certain we are otherwise going to flip Andrew.

So, while not the best standing for the vote it is 200% honest.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 16, 2017, 10:28:46 pm
also, who else here can do setup probabilities?

Yours truly. What are you looking at?

I'll catch up on the rest later, probably tomorrow.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 16, 2017, 10:51:37 pm
I am still voting for andrew and feel ok about staying there. I didn't necessarily find the whole L-1/L-2 thing to be suspicious, but I have not really liked the way he has responded to suspicion.

Yes I understand that I'm defensive and sarcastic and maybe a little impatient and rude, but I don't think there's anything inherently scummy about my playstyle, just like I don't cite WW's style of play today (somewhat lurking, posting sentences here and there, egging people on) as necessarily scummy. Maybe it's just me but I try to look at content and reads. I've never been good at reading metas so I usually try to avoid talking in those terms.

I wouldn't call you any of those terms, and I agree that even if I felt that way about them, they wouldn't necessarily be scummy.

What I meant, and what I should have been more clear about above, was how you have felt compelled to respond to every point about you. It seems like you are giving more credence to every remark about you, which is precisely how I felt when I was last scum. I feel like town lets things slide off their back more often whereas scum is hyper aware and feels like any suspicion could escalate, so you need to put the damper on it quick. Last game mcmc pointed out I was doing it in the scum QT and it was still really hard to check myself.

Yeah I get that but if I wasn't responding to suspicion against me you'd be saying "it's scummy that you didn't defend yourself against mcmc's attacks". Besides, that's just my playstyle. Go back to any game I'm in and you'll see the same thing, even though my last game was about 2 1/2 years ago. I'm not really proud of getting into some of the ridiculous fights with ash, yuma, and a couple other people but I usually do get really into the game and tend to overreact. I actually think I'm doing a little better with it this game than in older games but mainly I'm just trying to refrain from being an asshole.

pps, would you like to elaborate on why you are confident enough andrew is scum to not try to get the hammer?

The hammer was never about certainty. Besides, only scum can afford certainties. D1 I really read mcmc as scum driving the game. Maybe he still is but he's doing such a damn fine job of it I am being absorbed in his frame of it too. I am strongly reading town on mcmc practically all of D2. My initial suspicion on him was for enacting a scum meta I am personally familiar with in myself. He has far surpassed my ability to engender town vibrations while playing against a secretly scum meta. To the point my ego requires me to categorize it as strictly town.

So, that wasn't about Andrew at all. Mcmc made points about Andrew I silently concurred with. So, in some sense I am sheeeping him. That Andrew supposedly reads scum in mcmc to the point of voting him means that Andrew must be better at sensing the scum in the best scum performance ever and my ego will not support that so it requires me to categorize him as strictly scum. If Andrew outdoes PPS then who is PPS?

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the greatest mafia player as I kinda get lost trying to figure out setups and I don't pick up on little subtleties that other people seem to pick up on. But I remember one game where I pretty much called the scum team D1 and second guessed myself and ended up getting everything wrong. After the game Axxle told me to just stick with my gut and from then on I've pretty much strived to do that while trying to notice inconsistencies and what I deem to be weak cases not built on a solid foundation of evidence, which is what I see from mcmc this game. By D2 I usually have a couple people I've got strong scum reads on and I tend to stick with them unless something big convinces me otherwise.

So yes, I could be wrong about mcmc. I'm just looking at various things he's posted/neglected this game such as that D1 "argument" with WW, him practically ignoring the first three votes on Joseph's wagon while focusing on us two, and finally his case against me (although yeah, I'm a little biases about that last one), and I still inconsistencies and a lack of thorough investigation. I see mcmc pretty much giving a pass to things that portray him in a towny light even if they're not supported by much and focusing all his attention on, in my opinion, negligible events and posts.

Quote
But enough about that. I initially decided Andrew was likely scum because the off wagon thing, while definitely a scum tactic in scum hands, is not a terrible argument to make. I think it's reasonable that one of the 3 are scum. I'm just required to poo poo it initially to create some tension to see where it might break. But no, the turn of my opinion was when he joined me in voting mcmc. When I implied my vote was disingenuous he didn't seek a better one which makes me think he probably can't read the game nearly as good as would be required to see scum in scum!mcmc this game.

All that said, those are just the gut reasons. I think some due diligence is actually in order. I'm even tempted to unvote but I think there's going to be some switching here real soon and if he goes down anyhow and flips town then while I can't claim hammer my vote is just as good as the hammer because I'm not certain we are otherwise going to flip Andrew.

So, while not the best standing for the vote it is 200% honest.

Yeah I still agree focusing off wagon isn't a bad idea but I'm not going to throw away a chance to lynch my #1 scum read. And I figured we have a good amount of discussion and interactions and to just not analyze the votes on the wagon or review D1 or twilight interactions is to not utilize all the tools we have available to find scum. So I'm glad we veered in that direction but I wouldn't be super upset if we ended up lynching off wagon.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 17, 2017, 12:38:37 am
i like that you can shit on somebody's scum play and it's like, polite


this is relevant to mcmc in a way i will do after a few things are resolved
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 17, 2017, 01:50:31 am
okay why did both of our europeans have to die?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 17, 2017, 06:01:08 am
Vote Count 2.5

Eevee (1): schadd
mcmcsalot (1): AndrewisFTTW
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, mcmcsalot
AndrewisFTTW (3+1): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 17, 2017, 09:27:44 am
mcmc, can you describe eevee's scum play to me?

So obviously I'm not an eevee expert though my opinion of eevee is he's very genuine. This is why he's called out for buddying frequently, he's happy to play the game win us and that comes through in his posts. So if eevee is very reactive to someone that's extra scummy, in the last game he was scum he posted a lot of comments that were talking for everyone, like he was mentioning something we were all thinking and that's unusual for a person who typically wouldn't speak for others. Eevee is the type of person that has an idea how you are feeling but asks you so he can hear it in your words.

I believe in the past I have correctly read eevee other than a couple games where he a) recreated his town meta wonderfully, or b) he was in a bad mood irl and that made me falsely scumread him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 17, 2017, 09:35:43 am
You're still voting Dylan, right, McMc?  You seem to be working yourself up to Andrew being scum.
Still voting dylan, still think off wagon is a good place to find scum. Dylan has the bonus of semi-clearing robz if he flips scum.
Why is that? (dylan->robz)

The dylan robz interaction is from one of robz posts earlier this day.
Dylan, IDP, TWM: Has to be scum there, unless everybody is off wagon.
I mean, maybe it's just me but I like to see some substance from votes.

Me too. I voted WW because of the lack of substance to his vote, actually.

But then I voted for Dylan because we should find the scum off wagon, and I like Dylan more than IDP for... reasons.

Mostly for the reason that mcmc preferred IDP and it made me uncomfortable.

I feel like there is no chance scum!robz says this about his partner scum!dylan at that point in the game, with minimal comments as a whole. So not 100% but if dylan flips scum robz probably isn't.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 17, 2017, 09:45:48 am
That seems very weak.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 17, 2017, 09:56:33 am
That seems very weak.

What seems weak?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 17, 2017, 09:58:48 am
The scum!dylan => town!Robz argument.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 17, 2017, 10:00:02 am
I'm european! One temporarily in puerto rico. First impression: it's warmer here than in finland.

Andrew's reaction/defense to his wagon is giving me pause, while i disagree with his mcmc - read, in not sure scum would want to die on that hill. If he is scum, he is under pressure continuing to go after maybe the townreadiest player in the game? I would expect some low poster or other easier target.
But, perhaps more importantly, if andrew is town, dylan defending him seems super towny. If dylan was scum, wouldn't he be very happy to have the target be anyone but him? Maybe he wouldn't want to seem so eager to vote immediately, but the defense definitely seems against scumdylans best interest, he basically closed the door on being able to vote for andrew later today either, when he could have just been a little less adamant or not commented at all for a bit to see where it goes. They could both be scum i guess, but trying to avoid giving too much credence to scum pair theories before we flip first scum.

I got to go soon (probably back at lunchtime though, if we find a place with wifi), but i would be interested to look at why of the off-wagon targets we landed on dylan (namely who pushes it). I think that might be me, but who enabled that then i guess. Because this townfeel on dylan really changes that decision, scum had a huge incentive to push a town target in that spot if there is scum offwagon (which i agree is likely).

sorry for all the typos, phone post and no time to read back.

-->

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 17, 2017, 04:57:33 pm
What's up, guys? I have not basically anything that happened today yet. Any highlights?I will catch up though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 17, 2017, 05:03:29 pm
What's up, guys? I have not basically anything that happened today yet. Any highlights?I will catch up though.

We're all waiting on you...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 17, 2017, 05:03:34 pm
robz has been a bit quiet. if you do the "yeah i'm kinda disengaged because i'm town" thing i'm going to eat you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 17, 2017, 05:36:08 pm
It's probably time for me to use my vote, so pending further rereads on a couple people, vote: eevee.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 17, 2017, 06:04:50 pm
robz has been a bit quiet. if you do the "yeah i'm kinda disengaged because i'm town" thing i'm going to eat you

I want you to know that I'm town; it's why I'm not posting.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 17, 2017, 09:39:32 pm
So let's say Andrew is mafia. What do his partners do in this situation?

His wagon has moved so slowly and with so little distraction I see three options here.

1. His partners are ok with his lynch. Meaning there has to be some bussing going on or
2. His partners just aren't willing, haven't been able, or don't feel confident enough to push away from his wagon
3. He isn't mafia and the real mafia are ok with just letting this wagon ride, either on it or off it (at least one is likely to be on).

So I guess I want to go through those three (well there are kind of four) and see what I think.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 17, 2017, 09:40:06 pm
So let's say Andrew is mafia. What do his partners do in this situation?

His wagon has moved so slowly and with so little distraction I see three options here.

1. His partners are ok with his lynch. Meaning there has to be some bussing going on or
2. His partners just aren't willing, haven't been able, or don't feel confident enough to push away from his wagon
3. He isn't mafia and the real mafia are ok with just letting this wagon ride, either on it or off it (at least one is likely to be on).

So I guess I want to go through those three (well there are kind of four) and see what I think.

You won't know the answers to these questions if you don't vote him!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 17, 2017, 10:57:20 pm
So let's say Andrew is mafia. What do his partners do in this situation?

His wagon has moved so slowly and with so little distraction I see three options here.

1. His partners are ok with his lynch. Meaning there has to be some bussing going on or
2. His partners just aren't willing, haven't been able, or don't feel confident enough to push away from his wagon
3. He isn't mafia and the real mafia are ok with just letting this wagon ride, either on it or off it (at least one is likely to be on).

So I guess I want to go through those three (well there are kind of four) and see what I think.

You won't know the answers to these questions if you don't vote him!

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Vote Count 2.5
AndrewisFTTW (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 17, 2017, 11:49:18 pm
Darn. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 17, 2017, 11:55:55 pm
OK:

Theory number 1: His partners are ok with his lynch. Meaning there has to be some bussing going.

Already I am not loving this theory as it is a small group here, especially after I take out myself:

AndrewisFTTW (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee

Looking at the votes on Andrew I am seeing the following:

WW's vote, which was basically a sheep of mcmc's noncommital posts about Andrew. He does have an early post about feeling better about a Andrew lynch. But nothing else really.

PPS and Eevee voting after being prompted by WW. PPS does have a larger post later about why he voted for Andrew. Eevee has basically no real suspicion of Andrew previously.

So really, I am just not really seeing anyone here who would be a great candidate for voting for their partner in Andrew. I say that because I think when you vote for a partner you at least want to give some sort of reason, something that later, if he does get lynched, you can look back on and say, "see, right there I pointed out that scummy thing about him" and get some credit for it. None of WW, PPS or Eevee really do that. PPS later, but that felt like a backwards way of approaching it if they are both mafia.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 12:15:29 am
Theory number 2: His partners just aren't willing, haven't been able, or don't feel confident enough to push away from his wagon

Players not voting for Andrew:

IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32, Robz888, mcmcsalot, schadd

Given my conclusion above, I feel pretty good that if Andrew is mafia there is a 100% chance that at least one player of the above is mafia and maybe a 50/50 chance that the second is one of the above as well. I don't know. I don't really have any actual numbers to back those up, so don't ask for them, just gut numbers.

Anyways. Looking at the players above the first one that jumps out is mcmc. He has had multiple posts about being suspicious of Andrew, but hasn't actually voted there. I think it is fair to say that he recruited the three votes from Eevee, WW and PPS though. So while that is somewhat suspect, if Andrew is mafia, it seems like a lot of work, but no credit unless he is planning on voting later. But from what I remember of playing with mcmc last game, he wasn't really into bussing unless he felt like it was a situation that really warranted it. He even shied away from a pretty compellingly accurate case on RR. So I think this would make mcmc townier, maybe if Andrew is mafia?

The rest are really hard to get a good read on.

I feel like Robz would have perhaps jumped in faster and earlier if Andrew were mafia, either to get on board for credit or to push away from it. But I guess I could also see a narrative that he thinks it will just dissipate and wants to just let it go away naturally. That would be a bit of a risk. Or he is just honestly busy.

schadd I basically never know what he is talking about. But I can properly say that he has basically ignored the Andrew wagon completely. He asked PPS a question about Andrew that I don't understand, but it looked like it had more to do with PPS than Andrew. That raises some eyebrows for me. I could see a partner here.

Dylan has somewhat silently talked away from the Andrew wagon. Somewhat subtle and slow. First stating he didnt' like the wagon, then starting one on Eevee without much at all to back that vote up. I could see a partner potentially here. However, out of the cases to build Eevee I think could be a hard one as mcmc (the defacto leader of the town for better or worse right now) is pretty solidly against it. Quick edit before posting: I forgot that Eevee had a small wagon on him with schadd/WW (WW leaving) so maybe Dylan thought that could be worthwhile other option?

IDPTG: hasn't talked a lot about Andrew. Says he believed him about the L-1 and L-2 stuff. But hasn't really tried to move the focus to a different direction. So again, possible partner here.

So there are possibilities in Schadd, Dylan, IDPTG and maybe Robz. Longer shot for mcmc I think.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 12:17:12 am
This Wine Merchant guy sounds town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 12:20:40 am
And as for theory 3: He isn't mafia and the real mafia are ok with just letting this wagon ride, either on it or off it (at least one is likely to be on)

This one is harder to get a take on I think, but maybe that is just my bias toward Andrew being scummy. I feel like nearly everyone on or off could be mafia pushing a false wagon, but there isn't a whole lot to say that they are.

Really the only player that I feel doesn't fit that bill is mcmc who is pushing it but not on it. mcmc could easily just jump onto the wagon and not really bat an eye. To an extent PPS would also appear to be a little less suspicous.

I guess the worst offenders are probably Eevee and WW, if Andrew is town. And to an extent I agree with Eevee about Dylan being townier if Andrew is town.

So end of the story:

I feel slightly less positive about the Andrew lynch. Part of that is not having a great read on everyone not voting for Andrew, except for mcmc. And I can see him as a potential mislynch, but I imagine that to an extent it feels that way for every lynch, unless you have an investigative result attached to it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 12:21:05 am
This Wine Merchant guy sounds town.

Here. Have a bottle, on me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 11:45:30 am
Had I known you were giving out free samples, I would have townread you sooner!
But seriously, that's good analysis.

Deadline is monday, we don't have a lot of time left. Robz, you got any thoughts as to who to or not to lynch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 18, 2017, 01:55:02 pm
Nobody has responded to my case on mcmc at all, I don't get it. I mean it seems like besides me the only people to suspect him at all were ash and I think Robz and maybe WW.

And while rereading a little bit I found these during twilight:

Andrew consistently having a scum read on me and still looking for scummy things I might be doing throughout our recent discussion and post flip feels super towny to me.

Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads
Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew

Revolution of reads
Got lynched: Joseph (wagon) mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Scummy scum(off wagon): ash, dylan, idp
Keeping an eye on you killers(on wagon): eevee, pps, robz, witherweaver
Do more: TWM
Townie: schadd, Andrew

Consistent town read on me even AFTER the lynch. And now he says:

So I have more of a scum read on andrew then I remembered.

Yes, earlier I said reads change and that's normal and reads shouldn't be suspect just by themselves. But he said he finds me scummy for my vote and yet he had a strong townread on me AFTER my vote. It just looks like he didn't like me suspecting him and so he decided he didn't find me towny at all anymore. a.k.a. OMGUS

Anyway, I guess I'll post some reads for you guys:

schadd - Strong town - I don't know anything about him and even though he's been kinda lurking and joking and whatever, he seems like he is thinking critically and providing solid questions and feedback when he does post. I think he'd be the kind of person to be all-in and trying to lead town if he was scum.

TWM - Slight scum - At the beginning of the day I said I thought out of the three off wagon people he was the scummiest, but there wasn't really much content to analyze. Since then he's been posting pretty good stuff, especially his last three posts. But it feels like he's only starting to get more active now that there's a wagon that would lead to a lynch. I know D1 he was working and that's fine, but early today I don't think he was as active as he is now, and there's been plenty to talk about all day.

IDPTG - Null - Can't remember anything of note from him, I found him towny during my brief reread of the three people off wagon but again, he's just not putting much out there.

Robz - Slight town - Can't really form a read on someone who doesn't post. That said I think scum!Robz would be super active.

pps - Scum - That quickhammer just really rubs me the wrong way. And the way he jumped on my wagon was so sheepy. It seems like he's not really interested in engaging in debates and serious discussion on anything and he's more interested in distancing himself from everyone and doing his own thing, possibly so we can't trace anything back to him the whole game.

Eevee - Null - I guess he's providing good analysis sometimes? But other times it feels like he's just reacting to what other people say instead of coming up with his own opinions and observations. I could be wrong but that's just my recollection. I can't read him.

WW - Null - I would expect WW to be more active and engaged regardless of alignment. I really have no idea what his gameplan is this game and I'm pretty surprised he's as apathetic as he seems. It's pretty disappointing, honestly. I can't even say I'm upset, just disappointed that we don't have WW providing solid content like I remember him doing so often.

mcmc - Strong scum - Everyone knows how I feel about mcmc by now.

Dylan - Slight scum - I found him pretty towny the beginning of the day and since then he's had some good posts but I feel like he's been jumping votes the whole game, at least D2 since he wasn't around much D1. It's worth a reread but I just get the feeling that everything he says is hedgy and he doesn't commit to much, like he's trying to be very careful with everything he posts. Again, I could be wrong but that's just the feeling I get from him at this point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 18, 2017, 02:14:01 pm
Nobody has responded to my case on mcmc at all, I don't get it. I mean it seems like besides me the only people to suspect him at all were ash and I think Robz and maybe WW.

And while rereading a little bit I found these during twilight:

Andrew consistently having a scum read on me and still looking for scummy things I might be doing throughout our recent discussion and post flip feels super towny to me.

Want to lynch: ash, witherweaver, pps
Could be convinced: Joseph, dylan
Don't want to lynch based on my ability to read later: robz, TWM
Townie: eevee, idp, schadd, Andrew

Evolution of reads
Want to lynch: ash, Joseph, dylan
Could be convinced: pps, idp, witherweaver
Wish I didn't like you people so darn much be more alignment indicative: robz, eevee
Townie: twm, schadd, Andrew

Revolution of reads
Got lynched: Joseph (wagon) mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Scummy scum(off wagon): ash, dylan, idp
Keeping an eye on you killers(on wagon): eevee, pps, robz, witherweaver
Do more: TWM
Townie: schadd, Andrew

Consistent town read on me even AFTER the lynch. And now he says:

So I have more of a scum read on andrew then I remembered.

Yes, earlier I said reads change and that's normal and reads shouldn't be suspect just by themselves. But he said he finds me scummy for my vote and yet he had a strong townread on me AFTER my vote. It just looks like he didn't like me suspecting him and so he decided he didn't find me towny at all anymore. a.k.a. OMGUS

Anyway, I guess I'll post some reads for you guys:

schadd - Strong town - I don't know anything about him and even though he's been kinda lurking and joking and whatever, he seems like he is thinking critically and providing solid questions and feedback when he does post. I think he'd be the kind of person to be all-in and trying to lead town if he was scum.

TWM - Slight scum - At the beginning of the day I said I thought out of the three off wagon people he was the scummiest, but there wasn't really much content to analyze. Since then he's been posting pretty good stuff, especially his last three posts. But it feels like he's only starting to get more active now that there's a wagon that would lead to a lynch. I know D1 he was working and that's fine, but early today I don't think he was as active as he is now, and there's been plenty to talk about all day.

IDPTG - Null - Can't remember anything of note from him, I found him towny during my brief reread of the three people off wagon but again, he's just not putting much out there.

Robz - Slight town - Can't really form a read on someone who doesn't post. That said I think scum!Robz would be super active.

pps - Scum - That quickhammer just really rubs me the wrong way. And the way he jumped on my wagon was so sheepy. It seems like he's not really interested in engaging in debates and serious discussion on anything and he's more interested in distancing himself from everyone and doing his own thing, possibly so we can't trace anything back to him the whole game.

Eevee - Null - I guess he's providing good analysis sometimes? But other times it feels like he's just reacting to what other people say instead of coming up with his own opinions and observations. I could be wrong but that's just my recollection. I can't read him.

WW - Null - I would expect WW to be more active and engaged regardless of alignment. I really have no idea what his gameplan is this game and I'm pretty surprised he's as apathetic as he seems. It's pretty disappointing, honestly. I can't even say I'm upset, just disappointed that we don't have WW providing solid content like I remember him doing so often.

mcmc - Strong scum - Everyone knows how I feel about mcmc by now.

Dylan - Slight scum - I found him pretty towny the beginning of the day and since then he's had some good posts but I feel like he's been jumping votes the whole game, at least D2 since he wasn't around much D1. It's worth a reread but I just get the feeling that everything he says is hedgy and he doesn't commit to much, like he's trying to be very careful with everything he posts. Again, I could be wrong but that's just the feeling I get from him at this point.

I find it interesting you leave me off the list of people who have thought mcmc was scummy when he is one of my 2 top scum reads, and at one point was my biggest. I'm not sure what you mean by I've been "jumping votes." Please explain. And if I'm hedgy it's because the last several times I've taken a strong stand on someone it has ended up being wrong, so I'm trying not to go all in like I've been doing in previous games until I have stronger reasons.

Your description of schadd this game is actually 100% opposite of a recent game where he was town and I scum read him and drove a mislynch on him. So I actually would be ok with a lynch there. He was pretty much driving the D1 conversation as town. Scum!mcmc was in that game too, so I would actually recommend you read it.

I reread WW, and he feels slightly more sheepy than I remember him being. I wouldn't actually be surprised if he's scum.

For now I'm leaning town on PPS and TWM. Once TWM became more active today, his thoughts and analysis have been pretty towny. Even if I don't agree with every detail, it didn't feel like scum analysis.

Most of Andrew's thoughts have made sense to me, so I'm leaning town.

I'm pretty null on everyone else that I haven't already taken some kind of stand on.

tl;dr
Scummy: Eevee > mcmc > schadd = WW
null: Robz, IDPTG
town: Andrew, pps, twm
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 18, 2017, 02:27:45 pm
Sorry I remembered that wrong Dylan. Which game are you referring to with schadd and mcmc?

I just reread Dylan D2 and I was totally wrong about vote jumping. I don't think he's voted at all today so my apologies Dylan. Not sure where I got that from.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 18, 2017, 03:17:46 pm
Sorry I remembered that wrong Dylan. Which game are you referring to with schadd and mcmc?

I just reread Dylan D2 and I was totally wrong about vote jumping. I don't think he's voted at all today so my apologies Dylan. Not sure where I got that from.

1 vote. voted eevee today.  Game to read would be M94.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 03:40:55 pm
I could vote for WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 18, 2017, 04:36:46 pm
Ok. Well if no one else (except schadd) is feeling an eevee vote, then let's vote: WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 04:52:20 pm
Robz has done the super lurky act as scum before, he should get no towncred for it. He is extremely well balanced in that regard. Hoping he finds more time for us, of course.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 04:58:34 pm
I feel all the towny stuff from schadd was first half of day 1, and that he's been riding that towncred ever since. I can't pinpoint anything scummy from his day 2, just feels he's just more or less been here day 2, which is always behavior that raises alarm bells for me. Sort of like an inverse TWM, whom i'm subsequently reading townier today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 05:04:56 pm
I could vote for WW.

You'd be wrong.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 05:05:49 pm
Ok. Well if no one else (except schadd) is feeling an eevee vote, then let's vote: WW.

You are wrong.

What's your non-partner reason for avoiding the Andrew wagon?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 05:07:30 pm
I feel all the towny stuff from schadd was first half of day 1, and that he's been riding that towncred ever since. I can't pinpoint anything scummy from his day 2, just feels he's just more or less been here day 2, which is always behavior that raises alarm bells for me. Sort of like an inverse TWM, whom i'm subsequently reading townier today.

What's your point?  Riding towncred is not scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 05:11:05 pm
Robz has done the super lurky act as scum before, he should get no towncred for it. He is extremely well balanced in that regard. Hoping he finds more time for us, of course.

We can always just lynch him.  Never a bad time to lynch a Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 18, 2017, 05:14:44 pm
Ok. Well if no one else (except schadd) is feeling an eevee vote, then let's vote: WW.

You are wrong.

What's your non-partner reason for avoiding the Andrew wagon?

The generic reason is that I've thought he was towny, and increasingly so as D2 has gone on.

More importantly, the people that I thought were most likely to be scum were the people that seemed to be driving his wagon, which makes me really not want to join it, even if I just thought he was purely null.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 05:22:29 pm
Why is it he's townie, exactly?

Also that's not very generic.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 18, 2017, 05:27:00 pm
There's been a minicrisis at my apartment. Water's been pouring from the ceiling, so I'm a bit busy dealing with that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 05:49:28 pm
Robz has done the super lurky act as scum before, he should get no towncred for it. He is extremely well balanced in that regard. Hoping he finds more time for us, of course.

We can always just lynch him.  Never a bad time to lynch a Robz.
I don't think we can, it'd be pretty much a random lynch. Surely we can do
better?

No real point about schadd, just started re-evaluating why did i exactly think he was towny and thought i'd post the musing. schadd, i'm watching you!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 05:50:25 pm
There's been a minicrisis at my apartment. Water's been pouring from the ceiling, so I'm a bit busy dealing with that.
That sounds terrible. Hope it all sorts out without too much trouble, good luck!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 18, 2017, 06:41:19 pm
Sorry I remembered that wrong Dylan. Which game are you referring to with schadd and mcmc?

I just reread Dylan D2 and I was totally wrong about vote jumping. I don't think he's voted at all today so my apologies Dylan. Not sure where I got that from.

1 vote. voted eevee today.  Game to read would be M94.

I just read through M94. Here's what I learned:

1) Robz you went to Panama? Awesome!

2) Avoid joining a game with Awaclus if I care about my sanity.

but seriously though I think Schadd acted pretty similar in D1 of M94 to how he acted here. You don't think so?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 18, 2017, 07:07:41 pm
I'd like to lynch Robz tomorrow if nothing shakes out overnight and he's still doing this thing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 18, 2017, 07:08:52 pm
mafia energy has tanked in the last week for non-game reasons (i'm fine). i have been reading but not really absorbing most of the last bunch of posts, especially the wall-type stuff. will try to get at it more tonight & tomorrow.


i am confident in my ability to read ~8 of you. i'm not gonna say which 8
for now, this number has dipped to "3, and a few other people probably kinda"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 18, 2017, 07:18:08 pm
if anybody has some sort of amphetamine i could borrow that would be quite helpful
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 18, 2017, 07:27:54 pm
mafia energy has tanked in the last week for non-game reasons (i'm fine). i have been reading but not really absorbing most of the last bunch of posts, especially the wall-type stuff. will try to get at it more tonight & tomorrow.


i am confident in my ability to read ~8 of you. i'm not gonna say which 8
for now, this number has dipped to "3, and a few other people probably kinda"
this might also be what i was sensing from schadd, it's hard to tell when someone "feels" different if it's life-related or game-related sometimes.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 18, 2017, 07:42:27 pm
I've been totally covered up lately. A couple out of town trips, planning a 1 year birthday party for next weekend, a baby shower for the one after next. I'm definitely keeping up with the game but don't rightly have the capacity to do rereads and really contribute.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 09:47:00 pm
Robz has done the super lurky act as scum before, he should get no towncred for it. He is extremely well balanced in that regard. Hoping he finds more time for us, of course.

We can always just lynch him.  Never a bad time to lynch a Robz.
I don't think we can, it'd be pretty much a random lynch. Surely we can do
better?

No real point about schadd, just started re-evaluating why did i exactly think he was towny and thought i'd post the musing. schadd, i'm watching you!

Real town is never scared to recklessly lynch someone.  Scumvee.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 10:25:02 pm
Vote: WW?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 10:29:47 pm
Vote: WW?

Didn't I just tell you that was wrong?

It's like no one listens to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 10:30:23 pm
I could vote for WW.

You'd be wrong.

See?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 11:01:24 pm
I could vote for WW.

You'd be wrong.

See?

Real town is never scared to recklessly lynch someone.  Scumvee.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 11:02:36 pm
I am listening! I gave you wine!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 11:03:12 pm
If what you just quoted does not make you think I'm town, I seriously have no idea what game you're playing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 11:03:23 pm
Plus you the scummy, scum man. Scum diddity scum face. Wubba lubba dub dub!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 11:04:01 pm
If what you just quoted does not make you think I'm town, I seriously have no idea what game you're playing.

Jack Daniel's?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 18, 2017, 11:09:52 pm
So you're only voting me because you're drunk?  Want to go back to scum hunting when you sober up?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 18, 2017, 11:37:38 pm
So you're only voting me because you're drunk?  Want to go back to scum hunting when you sober up?

No. I am voting for you because you are scummy. But being drunk (well, let's call it moderately tipsy) just pushed me over the edge to voting you.

Plus I just don't think the Andrew wagon is going anywhere anymore. But sure, I'll re-evaluate when I wake up tomorrow and sober up. Promise!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 19, 2017, 01:28:12 am
Okay, I promise this game will get my full attention now. I will catch up tomorrow, promise.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 19, 2017, 06:56:06 am
Vote Count 2.5+1

Eevee (1): schadd
mcmcsalot (1): AndrewisFTTW
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, mcmcsalot
AndrewisFTTW (3): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee
Witherweaver (2): Dylan32, The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT. That's in 18 hours.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 19, 2017, 08:17:37 am
I just don't think the Andrew wagon is going anywhere anymore.

What do you suppose that suggests about his alignment?
Scum wagons stall because with zero scum dead at least 3 players are. It going to vote today as there isn't any good utility in bussing at this game state. So, you'd like to go find another wagon that won't stall?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 19, 2017, 08:18:20 am
I just don't think the Andrew wagon is going anywhere anymore.

What do you suppose that suggests about his alignment?
Scum wagons stall because with zero scum dead at least 3 players are not going to vote today as there isn't any good utility in bussing at this game state. So, you'd like to go find another wagon that won't stall?

Fixed some autocorrection
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:37:35 am
I just don't think the Andrew wagon is going anywhere anymore.

What do you suppose that suggests about his alignment?
Scum wagons stall because with zero scum dead at least 3 players are. It going to vote today as there isn't any good utility in bussing at this game state. So, you'd like to go find another wagon that won't stall?

You aren't asking the right question, I think. The first question should be is WW scummy? I find his scummy, so I think the vote is a good move. You might disagree with me on that read, but that is fine.

Then we can start to discuss which is better to vote for as it isn't that Andrew himself has become less suspicious. And as I already showed I don't think mafia is bussing here, but there isn't a whole lot going on elsewhere.

I think we need to at least consider looking elsewhere and I am fine to start that looks toward WW. Start with how he responded to my vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:40:07 am
These glib one liners are the perfect place to hide. I need to go back and see if he has been doing that all game or just started the last few days. But it really started to stand out the last few.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:52:58 am
These glib one liners are the perfect place to hide. I need to go back and see if he has been doing that all game or just started the last few days. But it really started to stand out the last few.

I don't think he was acting like this so much D1 and I'm not sure if scum!WW would be posting in this way. I will say this though: it is getting annoying, it's not how I would expect WW to play, and it most certainly is not pro-town. So sure.

vote: WW
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 19, 2017, 12:02:08 pm
Plus you the scummy, scum man. Scum diddity scum face. Wubba lubba dub dub!
Free wine and rick and morty references? I like this guy!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 12:50:54 pm
These glib one liners are the perfect place to hide. I need to go back and see if he has been doing that all game or just started the last few days. But it really started to stand out the last few.

Well. I suppose you haven't played with me before, so you can use this as a learning opportunity.

I really suggest you try to lynch scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 12:51:42 pm
These glib one liners are the perfect place to hide. I need to go back and see if he has been doing that all game or just started the last few days. But it really started to stand out the last few.

I don't think he was acting like this so much D1 and I'm not sure if scum!WW would be posting in this way. I will say this though: it is getting annoying, it's not how I would expect WW to play, and it most certainly is not pro-town. So sure.

vote: WW

This is basically what someone admitting they are scum looks like.

You guys can yell at me after the game if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 19, 2017, 01:09:56 pm
But it would be helpful if you offered more arguments than "because I say so". (Referring to your non-mafianess and convincing others.)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 19, 2017, 01:11:14 pm
WW is fully within his town and scum meta.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 01:26:50 pm
These glib one liners are the perfect place to hide. I need to go back and see if he has been doing that all game or just started the last few days. But it really started to stand out the last few.

Well. I suppose you haven't played with me before, so you can use this as a learning opportunity.

I really suggest you try to lynch scum.

I really suggest you not act under the assumption that everything you say is correct.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 01:40:18 pm
I don't like this pivot to ww and think it is scum driven. I think the stall on Andrews wagon is due to his scum buddies not willing to join as twm suggested was possible.

vote: andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 01:41:35 pm
Though I would still very happily lynch dylan. I think they are both scum and I have who their partner is limited to a pool of like 4
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 01:57:07 pm
I don't like this pivot to ww and think it is scum driven. I think the stall on Andrews wagon is due to his scum buddies not willing to join as twm suggested was possible.

vote: andrew

That's a super belated vote, especially after pushing my wagon so hard in the first place. Why were you so afraid to put me to L-1? Is it because you'd be doing the same thing I did D1 and thought it'd be hypocritical?

Obviously now that TWM moved away from my wagon mcmc is comfortable voting me because he feels it's a safe move. One he can pull off without arousing suspicion.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 02:30:34 pm
WW is fully within his town and scum meta.

Haha, that would be a good sig.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 02:31:34 pm
Though I would still very happily lynch dylan. I think they are both scum and I have who their partner is limited to a pool of like 4

I am willing to do Dylan.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 02:59:25 pm
I don't like this pivot to ww and think it is scum driven. I think the stall on Andrews wagon is due to his scum buddies not willing to join as twm suggested was possible.

vote: andrew

Cool. vote: Andrew

I think that is L-1. can we get a vote count up in here?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 19, 2017, 03:05:10 pm
Sec
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 03:06:50 pm
Plus you the scummy, scum man. Scum diddity scum face. Wubba lubba dub dub!
Free wine and rick and morty references? I like this guy!

I just got eevee buddied for the first time! I should get some sort of badge to commemorate!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 19, 2017, 03:08:50 pm
Vote Count 2.5+2

Eevee (1): schadd
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (5): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee, mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant
Witherweaver (2): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame


With 13-3 alive it takes 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, Mar 21-1 at 1am FT. That's in 10 hours.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 03:32:09 pm
I love how everyone completely ignores everything I say about mcmc. Why do I even bother?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 03:34:38 pm
I love how everyone completely ignores everything I say about mcmc. Why do I even bother?

I read what you posted. I just disagree with it based off my previous reads.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 03:43:20 pm
Lynch away.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 05:16:34 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 05:19:51 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 05:31:13 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

Some games do feel like that, but sometimes you just are scum trying to AtE.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 05:34:15 pm
I don't like this pivot to ww and think it is scum driven. I think the stall on Andrews wagon is due to his scum buddies not willing to join as twm suggested was possible.

vote: andrew

That's a super belated vote, especially after pushing my wagon so hard in the first place. Why were you so afraid to put me to L-1? Is it because you'd be doing the same thing I did D1 and thought it'd be hypocritical?

Obviously now that TWM moved away from my wagon mcmc is comfortable voting me because he feels it's a safe move. One he can pull off without arousing suspicion.
Wrong I wanted to stop posting and pushing cases for a little bit to see what happened, what I saw is that even though many people found you scummy your wagon stalled. I then saw people I find scummy trying to pivot to ww and I don't want that happening.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 05:34:53 pm

Everything I do is scummy.
uh that's my favorite the police song


still haven't really caught up. andrew looked town to me at some point, and he seems to me like someone bad at wallposting as scum (robz said he was kinda easy to read; why would someone lie on that internet?). he looks bad from interaction with people i think are town, though (mcmc, ww)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 05:36:34 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

If you are town I really think your scum read on me is caused by me having a scum read on you. You are reading everything I do as scummy and not looking for a town narrative. If you're town there are some scum players hiding in places I'm not looking and I'm sorry they moved me to vote you and not dylan.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 05:46:10 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

If you are town I really think your scum read on me is caused by me having a scum read on you. You are reading everything I do as scummy and not looking for a town narrative. If you're town there are some scum players hiding in places I'm not looking and I'm sorry they moved me to vote you and not dylan.

I don't know why scum would push the lynch off of me because if Andrew is town, then they would be ok with either lynch since I'm town. Actually, who are the people that are ok with either lynch?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 05:48:07 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

Some games do feel like that, but sometimes you just are scum trying to AtE.

I'm not trying to appeal to anyone. I'm just stating how I've felt recently. Yeah some mafia games are like that, I get it. I just feel that regardless of alignment if someone puts a lot of effort and focus into something it shouldn't be ignored even if everyone disagrees with it. Or at least it should be given a little more thought than someone placing a vote without explanation. Mostly I'm just baffled that there are some people in this game that have gotten by without putting in any effort whatsoever. Yes I understand that it's a strategy and their strategy is just as valid as anyone else's, it's just frustrating that nobody has really called them out on it. In effect it's made that towny and piecing together a case and pushing it scummy which is why I feel I'm at L-1 right now. You might not feel my case against mcmc is valid and I feel like a lot of people don't, fine. So I switched my vote to WW. Nope, that's scummy too. I honestly don't think anyone is thinking in pro-town terms. I think mcmc is the worst offender. He's completely turned his back on his "voting off wagon" idea and instead is pushing an OMGUS lynch. But that's just how I see it.

I don't like this pivot to ww and think it is scum driven. I think the stall on Andrews wagon is due to his scum buddies not willing to join as twm suggested was possible.

vote: andrew

That's a super belated vote, especially after pushing my wagon so hard in the first place. Why were you so afraid to put me to L-1? Is it because you'd be doing the same thing I did D1 and thought it'd be hypocritical?

Obviously now that TWM moved away from my wagon mcmc is comfortable voting me because he feels it's a safe move. One he can pull off without arousing suspicion.
Wrong I wanted to stop posting and pushing cases for a little bit to see what happened, what I saw is that even though many people found you scummy your wagon stalled. I then saw people I find scummy trying to pivot to ww and I don't want that happening.

So a wagon on town is incapable of stalling? Do you think the whole scum team is just going to jump on my wagon and push it through quickly? Please.

Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

If you are town I really think your scum read on me is caused by me having a scum read on you. You are reading everything I do as scummy and not looking for a town narrative. If you're town there are some scum players hiding in places I'm not looking and I'm sorry they moved me to vote you and not dylan.

That's fair. At least the me not looking for a town narrative part. But you only started to have a scum read on me D2 so don't tell me I'm only scum reading you because you scum read me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 05:48:53 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

If you are town I really think your scum read on me is caused by me having a scum read on you. You are reading everything I do as scummy and not looking for a town narrative. If you're town there are some scum players hiding in places I'm not looking and I'm sorry they moved me to vote you and not dylan.

I don't know why scum would push the lynch off of me because if Andrew is town, then they would be ok with either lynch since I'm town. Actually, who are the people that are ok with either lynch?

<-- This guy
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 05:56:10 pm
unvote

I am on mobile and want check something on Dylan before he hammers and my service is horrid.

Plus robs still hasn't shown up
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 05:58:44 pm
Gah! Mostly i don't like Dylan suddenly being onboard but can't get to the previous pages to see what he posted before

Sorry if this double postscript
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 06:02:32 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

If you are town I really think your scum read on me is caused by me having a scum read on you. You are reading everything I do as scummy and not looking for a town narrative. If you're town there are some scum players hiding in places I'm not looking and I'm sorry they moved me to vote you and not dylan.

I don't know why scum would push the lynch off of me because if Andrew is town, then they would be ok with either lynch since I'm town. Actually, who are the people that are ok with either lynch?

<-- This guy

I appreciate your honesty. I was reading D2 to answer my own question and you were one of the few, yeah. You, and mcmc, and maybe twm? Not sure exactly. So has Eevee gotten townier for you today, WW, or you just prefer anyone but mcmc and yourself?

PPE1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 06:04:58 pm
Ok, I really don't like the Andrew wagon. I could be convinced, but probably not easily. I need to reread how it formed, but I won't have time for the next several hours.

This is really frustrating. Last post til I get home, but this makes me suspicious cause I didn't see Dylan being difficult to convince. Just easily talked himself into it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 06:06:18 pm
And to be 100% clear, I'm still not thrilled about an Andrew lynch, but if he flips town, then it would narrow the pool of people I'd be willing to lynch tomorrow down to like 3 people, and so I would join for the information. But if someone would go for a wagon on someone that I had previously listed as scummy, I would definitely prefer that.

PPE 1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 19, 2017, 06:07:42 pm
TWM, I'm pretty sure you are completely basing your read on me on our difference of opinion on mcmc throughout the game. Would you say that is plausible?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 06:52:30 pm
I think I'd like to reread before we end today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 07:20:37 pm
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

I did fight against it and nobody cared so again, why bother? Everything I do is scummy. Everything I don't do is scummy. This is what I've learned from this game.

Some games do feel like that, but sometimes you just are scum trying to AtE.

I'm not trying to appeal to anyone. I'm just stating how I've felt recently. Yeah some mafia games are like that, I get it. 1)I just feel that regardless of alignment if someone puts a lot of effort and focus into something it shouldn't be ignored even if everyone disagrees with it. Or at least it should be given a little more thought than someone placing a vote without explanation. 2)Mostly I'm just baffled that there are some people in this game that have gotten by without putting in any effort whatsoever. Yes I understand that it's a strategy and their strategy is just as valid as anyone else's, it's just frustrating that nobody has really called them out on it. In effect it's made that towny and piecing together a case and pushing it scummy which is why I feel I'm at L-1 right now. You might not feel my case against mcmc is valid and I feel like a lot of people don't, fine. So I switched my vote to WW. Nope, that's scummy too. I honestly don't think anyone is thinking in pro-town terms.3 I think mcmc is the worst offender. He's completely turned his back on his "voting off wagon" idea and instead is pushing an OMGUS lynch. But that's just how I see it.
1) I don't think people are ignoring your case on me, I think people don't like it.

2) Who are you talking about? Robz because I have threatened to have him removed, I don't know why others aren't more upset at him, if he wasn't my brother I would have requested a replacement. If you are talking about the super low posters (twm/dylan/idp) I called them all out multiple times, since then they have been posting more.

3) This is one of the huge reasons I find you scummy. Your case on me seems fake, I have said in almost every post I STILL WANT TO LYNCH DYLAN. So me as town is trying to think why does town!andrew think i'm scummy and when you say stuff like I have turned my back on voting off wagon I feel like you have to be scum who wants to convince other I did that because that would look scummy of me. I also feel like town!andrew would understand I wasn't voting for you because I still wanted to lynch dylan and didnt want to move to you and allow scum to sheep. I wanted people to have to vote you instead of agreeing with me about dylan.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 07:45:26 pm
1) I don't think people are ignoring your case on me, I think people don't like it.

If people said they didn't like it then fine, I'd understand. Since it's being ignored by all but a few people we can only speculate, hence the "I think". Whatever, I may have been a little dramatic about it. Sorry.

Quote
2) Who are you talking about? Robz because I have threatened to have him removed, I don't know why others aren't more upset at him, if he wasn't my brother I would have requested a replacement. If you are talking about the super low posters (twm/dylan/idp) I called them all out multiple times, since then they have been posting more.

I'm referring to Robz, WW, IDP, schadd.

Quote
3) This is one of the huge reasons I find you scummy. Your case on me seems fake, I have said in almost every post I STILL WANT TO LYNCH DYLAN. So me as town is trying to think why does town!andrew think i'm scummy and when you say stuff like I have turned my back on voting off wagon I feel like you have to be scum who wants to convince other I did that because that would look scummy of me. I also feel like town!andrew would understand I wasn't voting for you because I still wanted to lynch dylan and didnt want to move to you and allow scum to sheep. I wanted people to have to vote you instead of agreeing with me about dylan.

Yes I know you want to lynch Dylan but you're voting me and have been pushing my lynch for a while now. I think if you're going to suddenly decide I'm scummy and you make a big case on me you shouldn't be afraid to put me to L-1. Instead you waited for other people to do what they will and sat back and observed like you said. I find that pretty scummy. And yes I want to convince other people about the scummy things you have said because I think you're scum and I want you to be lynched. Why is that scummy?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 08:32:50 pm
so andrew is either town or being double/triple bussed, between saying "lynch me" and throwing shade at people off wagon.


there is a townslip there that i realized and decided to leave in. where's silverspawn?


something i'm kind of concerned about is "lynch me" before claiming. i'm more wary about people forgetting to claim after mcmc in M94. i mean, that can just be taken to be a vt claim (and i did essentially that in M94; i said i would self-hammer, faust noted it as vt claim, i was like "right") and also by D2 scum have perhaps sussed out what their claims would be
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 08:39:26 pm
so andrew is either town or being double/triple bussed, between saying "lynch me" and throwing shade at people off wagon.


there is a townslip there that i realized and decided to leave in. where's silverspawn?


something i'm kind of concerned about is "lynch me" before claiming. i'm more wary about people forgetting to claim after mcmc in M94. i mean, that can just be taken to be a vt claim (and i did essentially that in M94; i said i would self-hammer, faust noted it as vt claim, i was like "right") and also by D2 scum have perhaps sussed out what their claims would be

Well nobody asked me to claim and I'd rather not give scum more information/PoE unless I absolutely need to.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 19, 2017, 08:47:16 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 09:02:30 pm
robz is probably town, unfortunately. in my time in mafiascum i've encountered two lurkers: thinkbig, not_mafia.


thinkbig (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=8686195&user_select%5B%5D=28548#p8686195): town. gave heaps upon heaps of "i promise i'll catch up guys," never did.


[an unrelated takeaway: radiantcowbells, scum in that game and most cunning manipulator at the time, replaced in and hammered him 30min afterward; we'd had him at L-1, and i was voting him for pressure reasons; i thought the behavior was shitty and i wanted him to be at l-1 when he gave his reads. but rc hammered him before that happened, and he was scum, and we all shrugged it off, because it seemed too scummy to be scum, and he had a reason that kinda made sense (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=8718182#p8718182) in spite of not scumreading the guy very hard and having replaced in shortly before. not congruent to the pps thing but perhaps you can imagine why i'm concerned about him.]


[there's a lot of parts about RC's scum play and others' on MS that this forum could learn from. don't tell him i said that]


and not_mafia (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=8895658&user_select%5B%5D=23551#p8895658): scum, you wouldn't know he was lurking if he weren't doing it, if that makes sense. just said a couple things sporadically that were sometimes game-related, made it apparent he just decided to lurk that game. no mention of it, nothing.


i haven't really looked at any of robz's pre-break games (briefly for M92), and ww (i think) who suggested he has done it for towncred can assess the validity of this, but i think he's one to feel especially shitty to do it the way he's doing it now; if he's scum in this game, it gets to the point where it feels more like you're lying to people rather than players in a game. so it's a lame trust-tell type thing but i think it's likely to be effective.


a bit irrelevant to the stuff going on now but it's a think that i can say
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 09:03:08 pm
so andrew is either town or being double/triple bussed, between saying "lynch me" and throwing shade at people off wagon.


there is a townslip there that i realized and decided to leave in. where's silverspawn?


something i'm kind of concerned about is "lynch me" before claiming. i'm more wary about people forgetting to claim after mcmc in M94. i mean, that can just be taken to be a vt claim (and i did essentially that in M94; i said i would self-hammer, faust noted it as vt claim, i was like "right") and also by D2 scum have perhaps sussed out what their claims would be

Well nobody asked me to claim and I'd rather not give scum more information/PoE unless I absolutely need to.
yea i meant to add "don't claim though if you don't feel the need" but forgot
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 09:04:15 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I don't want to claim yet because I don't want scum knowing if I'm a PR or not until it's clear I'm absolutely going to be lynched.

Yes:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9962.0

In that game I had to defend myself through a 36 page D1 and for the rest of the game as well from a very persistent scum!ash. Eventually I pushed for ash to be lynched despite having a townread on him originally. Let me check a couple other games of mine too.

Quote
mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

Really?

PPE: 2
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 09:06:19 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?
is there anything else that tells this apart from town being resigned to being lynched? for the things i pointed out i think it's quite unlikely he's resigned if he's scum, rather trying to be lynched
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 09:07:34 pm
I agree with schadd about Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 09:09:22 pm
scone!


supposed to be score but i mistyped
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 09:18:36 pm
my current understanding of the game has too many TvTs


so if you guys are all town and TvTing, stop
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 09:51:53 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

This post is scummy to me, BTW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 09:54:13 pm
TWM, I'm pretty sure you are completely basing your read on me on our difference of opinion on mcmc throughout the game. Would you say that is plausible?
You are thinking of someone else. I mean. I was suspicious of you really early Day1 for just one post in particular, but I haven't really suspected you since then, until your recent change about Andrew, which I am now going to look more into.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 19, 2017, 09:57:52 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

This post is scummy to me, BTW.
Just when I thought we were buddies! Why?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 09:58:35 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

This post is scummy to me, BTW.

Why?

As for the Andrew wagon...I'm leaning town on him right now, but I don't think it'd be the worst lynch if we get to the deadline. That said, there's still a decent amount of time before the deadline so we shouldn't rush into this. I haven't decided who I'd rather lynch today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 19, 2017, 10:00:27 pm
Ah, I forgot the deadline is looming tomorrow, rescind my waiting comment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:02:47 pm
Ok, I really don't like the Andrew wagon. I could be convinced, but probably not easily. I need to reread how it formed, but I won't have time for the next several hours.

Ok. So this is the post (825) I quoted before. I am interested to see if anyone posted anything that would be convincing as I feel like the jist of the the Andrew case already existed before this post, or if Dylan reread how it formed, the two things he said he would need to do to vote there.

PPS's big explanation, but post vote post is 833.

My analysis (850 onward) of whether Andrew's partners (if they exists) are bussing or hanging back. But that isn't really indicative of Andrew himself.

By861 Dylan is still strongly reading Andrew has town. Which, by the way Eevee gives him town credit for.

And then 9191 Dylan stated intent to hammer.

So yeah. I don't like this about face at all. Neither of the two things happened. Dylan didn't look back at how the wagon was formed (or at least didn't publicly give thoughts, which amounts to the same thing in a game like this) and no one appeared to give a really strong case on Andrew that hadn't already existed before.

Also, again note, that mcmc gives scum credit here (908).

His change makes me much more nervous about the Andrew wagon that I was previously.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 10:03:03 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

This post is scummy to me, BTW.

Why?

As for the Andrew wagon...I'm leaning town on him right now, but I don't think it'd be the worst lynch if we get to the deadline. That said, there's still a decent amount of time before the deadline so we shouldn't rush into this. I haven't decided who I'd rather lynch today.

What do you think about WW?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:04:45 pm
But maybe mcmc is right and they are just scum partners. So I guess I want to stay on the Andrew wagon? That Dylan is willing to vote for him doesn't change him being scummy, it just means I don't feel as confident about it as I should?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:09:43 pm
Andrew sounds like scum resigned to being lynched to me. Town would claim, why not? Anyone by chance have exceptional memory and remember andrew being in this situation before?

I think we should lynch andrew, but maybe give idptg, robz (!! i second we need him replaced or more engaged) and pps more time to re-emerge first (especially because more time = more time for my internet situation to improve). Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts. I can totally sympathize with the frustration of taking the time to formulate long posts and having people not comment on them. mcmc has just been so much townier than you!

This post is scummy to me, BTW.

Why?

As for the Andrew wagon...I'm leaning town on him right now, but I don't think it'd be the worst lynch if we get to the deadline. That said, there's still a decent amount of time before the deadline so we shouldn't rush into this. I haven't decided who I'd rather lynch today.

What do you think about WW?

Leaning scum. Pps claims WW is within both of his metas but I don't know how much stock to put in that. Probably not much. I think I prefer an Eevee vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:13:35 pm
Going to Unvote for the time being.

Is deadline coming up like .. soon?  The last vote count says Monday the 21st, but the 21st is a Tuesday.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:16:11 pm
Going to Unvote for the time being.

Is deadline coming up like .. soon?  The last vote count says Monday the 21st, but the 21st is a Tuesday.

Monday the (21-1)th
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:17:11 pm
So in three under three hours?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:17:51 pm
So in three under three hours?

Yes
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 10:18:58 pm
Guys deadline is in 2 hours and 43 min! I am in bed and will put my vote on andrew or dylan. I would still rather dylan over andrew. I will go back to dylan if others will.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:19:39 pm
Reading, will place my vote within the next probably hour.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:20:45 pm
Reading, will place my vote within the next probably hour.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:21:48 pm
For reference regarding Dylan/Andrew, this is Andrew's reread of Dylan on Day 2:

Ok Dylan first. Here are his last posts before the lynch yesterday:

I don't actually think we should lynch you, mcmc. But we need informational wagoning.

I don't understand this statement.

I won't speak for Robz but to me this means we don't need a lynch so much as we need to see where people position on ever growing wagons. I mean the ones that go to lynch are going to be most informative but as people vote on and off wagons we get information, especially in retrospect.

Yeah this is how I took it also.

And lol TWM. Early I try to post little bits of reads so people know where I stand unless I see something I think is really strong evidence. Then I will post a lot more. More often than not, I'm incorrect about whatever conclusion I come to when that happens though, sadly (i.e. schadd circa squid girl, gkrieg circa stranger things). The only thing I think I've actually gotten right recently was protecting gkrieg as the bodyguard in squid girl mafia. Nailed it. not that it helped much...

Mcmc. If the DAMA still stands, are you scum?

(Not sure what DAMA is)

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

This makes me think he's town. I know other people (WW and mcmc... as usual) were a little suspicious of this:

So i'm 99% sure Dylan was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

I do not like this post.

He actually meant this:

This one:

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

And then:

So i'm 99% sure mcmc was online when I asked that question and then left without answering. I'm not going to base a read on that, but it should at least be on the record as a small note.

Dylan, would you like to explain this?

I would actually like to know how you(dylan) came to think this as well.

Again, I think this is pretty damn towny to me. Though I could see it as new scum grasping at straws to find a case (or bus his partner).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:25:35 pm
Guys deadline is in 2 hours and 43 min! I am in bed and will put my vote on andrew or dylan. I would still rather dylan over andrew. I will go back to dylan if others will.

I guess I could go Dylan?

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:25:53 pm
Guys deadline is in 2 hours and 43 min! I am in bed and will put my vote on andrew or dylan. I would still rather dylan over andrew. I will go back to dylan if others will.

Where is your brother!?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:26:29 pm
Also of note.  There was talk of lynching off wagon, which is Dylan, TWM, IDPTG.  Andrew reads all three and comes up with Town (Dylan), Null (IDPTG), and scum (TWM).

vote: TWM

My biggest scumread of the three.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:30:08 pm
Also of note.  There was talk of lynching off wagon, which is Dylan, TWM, IDPTG.  Andrew reads all three and comes up with Town (Dylan), Null (IDPTG), and scum (TWM).

vote: TWM

My biggest scumread of the three.

What's your point?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:30:50 pm

would do dylan.
Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to
see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.
this looks like a way more contrived and self-conscious mirror of
I'll go back to vote: schadd. With awaclus leaving the wagon and Jake joining it, somehow I feel a bit better about it.  My gut feeling is that showing your previous scum defense and saying this is the game you'll look to in the future as scum is a gambit you would absolutely pull as scum.
I don't know. It was pretty time prohibitive to find your actual defense in the mafiascum game because of the 100+ pages in that game...  Like I said, this is kind of just a gut feeling thing. I would much rather have something concrete to go off.  In addition, after looking back at mcmc, I just don't see as much of a scum narrative as I see for you.  It's pretty weak, but it's just enough to support my gut, so I'm going with it.
but that's like an post, at present i don't remember much else from him
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:31:56 pm
Where I think we are at:

Eevee (1): schadd
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, TWM
AndrewisFTTW (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (2): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame, WW



Can we even get a Dylan lynch? I feel like we might have to default into an Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:32:54 pm
an post

Why? Why do you do this?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 10:35:15 pm
Where I think we are at:

Eevee (1): schadd
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, TWM
AndrewisFTTW (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (2): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame, WW



Can we even get a Dylan lynch? I feel like we might have to default into an Andrew.

I don't see why we couldn't get a Dylan lynch. We have the people.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:36:55 pm
Where I think we are at:

Eevee (1): schadd
Dylan32 (2): Robz888, TWM
AndrewisFTTW (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, mcmcsalot
Witherweaver (2): Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame, WW



Can we even get a Dylan lynch? I feel like we might have to default into an Andrew.

I don't see why we couldn't get a Dylan lynch. We have the people.

We have the peeps. But will they vote for Dylan?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 10:37:27 pm
Schadd, me, idp, ww, twm is 5, robz is on dylan and pps is on andrew so we can do either.

I'm dylan > andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:37:42 pm
I'll vote for Dylan, but I prefer Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on March 19, 2017, 10:38:38 pm
I prefer Dylan but would move my vote to Andrew if need be.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:39:33 pm
I prefer Dylan but would move my vote to Andrew if need be.

Hey there! Out of stagnation from where your vote is? Or because you reread?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:41:32 pm
Can everyone briefly say why they prefer Dylan?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:41:45 pm
Or, really, why they think he's scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:41:54 pm
he's not paranoid
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:43:25 pm
he's not paranoid

Meaning what?  He's trying to play cool-headed to avoid looking like he's overreacting to pressure?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 10:45:22 pm
I find Dylan somewhat scummy but it's more of a gut read than anything. He has been a little hedgy as he admitted earlier, but that's really all I've noticed. Obviously I'd prefer him to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:46:01 pm
\
I appreciate your honesty. I was reading D2 to answer my own question and you were one of the few, yeah. You, and mcmc, and maybe twm? Not sure exactly. So has Eevee gotten townier for you today, WW, or you just prefer anyone but mcmc and yourself?

PPE1

Missed this.  Yes, Eevee got townier for me today.  He's pretty null right now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:46:13 pm
Can everyone briefly say why they prefer Dylan?

I didn't like how he switched from townreading Andrew to scum reading him when it stopped being convenient for him and didn't meet any of the criteria he set for himself to change that read.

But I am still not sure that I actually prefer Dylan. I kinda feel like we have a somewhat decent chance we are just deciding between partners. Am I being way too optimistic here?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:48:05 pm
Can everyone briefly say why they prefer Dylan?

I didn't like how he switched from townreading Andrew to scum reading him when it stopped being convenient for him and didn't meet any of the criteria he set for himself to change that read.

But I am still not sure that I actually prefer Dylan. I kinda feel like we have a somewhat decent chance we are just deciding between partners. Am I being way too optimistic here?

l don't think they are partners, rereading both.  There are some suggestive markers, but a lot doesn't fit.

For what it's worth, this question sounds insincere.  (And hence scummy.)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:51:15 pm
Can everyone briefly say why they prefer Dylan?

I didn't like how he switched from townreading Andrew to scum reading him when it stopped being convenient for him and didn't meet any of the criteria he set for himself to change that read.

But I am still not sure that I actually prefer Dylan. I kinda feel like we have a somewhat decent chance we are just deciding between partners. Am I being way too optimistic here?

l don't think they are partners, rereading both.  There are some suggestive markers, but a lot doesn't fit.

For what it's worth, this question sounds insincere.  (And hence scummy.)

Let me try again. Anyone think I am being too optimistic right now?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:52:11 pm
Let's look at scum!Dylan moving to mislynch town!Andrew:

Lynch away.

In a way, this makes me actually want to hammer, because it seems like scum resigned to their fate. But I also know scum usually fight harder against their lynch... AH WIFOM. But I would have to lean scummy for it though.

Yeah, I have generally thought your posts about mcmc have made sense and not generated near the reaction I would have liked to see. But either way this would be an informative lynch I think, so...

Intent to hammer.

Basically he was town on Andrew up to this point. 

Note that Dylan starts a wagon on me when Andrew is a very likely lynch.  Narrative here would be... he had already townread Andrew so jumping on the wagon wouldn't make sense.  So he has to vote elsewhere. 

Dylan still looks for other lynches while voting Andrew.  Also:

And to be 100% clear, I'm still not thrilled about an Andrew lynch, but if he flips town, then it would narrow the pool of people I'd be willing to lynch tomorrow down to like 3 people, and so I would join for the information. But if someone would go for a wagon on someone that I had previously listed as scummy, I would definitely prefer that.

PPE 1

This is why I don't think they are partners, by the way.  Does sound like he may know Andrew is a mislynch, so fits that narrative.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 10:52:51 pm
I don't think your being optimistic the fact that they are both gone and not voting for eachother currently I think says we may have found partners
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:53:40 pm
This is why I don't think they are partners, by the way.  Does sound like he may know Andrew is a mislynch, so fits that narrative.

Fair assessment. Way to ruin my fantasy!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:53:53 pm
Well, that's one reason why I don't think they're partners.  Another is Andrew's reread as town to Dylan; a little more likely to go nullish there (which was IDPTG).  There is, of course, WIFOM there.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 10:54:13 pm
I don't think your being optimistic the fact that they are both gone and not voting for eachother currently I think says we may have found partners

Way to renew my fantasy!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 10:55:06 pm
Hmm.. Dylan never changed his vote from me I guess.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:55:19 pm

he's not paranoid

Meaning what?  He's trying to play cool-headed to avoid looking like he's overreacting to pressure?
irrespective of pressure; i don't think he's trying to not look paranoid, rather, he tends to be when he's town and there isn't reason to be when you're scum.


idk, i don't think i can really read him. i think that, at present, i'm good at reading people that are strongly opinionated/confident when they're town (folks like you, gkrieg, mcmc, robz) whereas people like d32 can do things that give me false positives, and i haven't really figured out a good heuristic for him yet. it's kinda like, andrew looks town to me and d32 doesn't really look that strongly like anything, so i'd prefer him
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 10:56:37 pm
vote: dylan I think we want this instead.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 10:56:44 pm
vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 10:58:11 pm
I don't think your being optimistic the fact that they are both gone and not voting for eachother currently I think says we may have found partners

Nope I'm here and nope, not partners. Let's hope you're right about Dylan though. It'd make me feel better about you, for one thing.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:58:40 pm

i don't think he's trying to not look paranoid, rather, he tends to be when he's town and there isn't reason to be when you're scum.
the post i pointed out looks like trying to be paranoid, incidentally


would vote him right now except i'm faintly concerned about it just hammering. he's at l-2 i think?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 10:59:43 pm
yes


vote: dylan l-1
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:00:34 pm
no hurry though, we still have one hundred and twenty minutes
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:05:30 pm
So my feelings on Andrew are basically these things.  Well the first I can't explain well.  It may just be his posting style.  Early on it was, like, a lot of comments without actually making much contribution to the game.  Somewhat opportunistically puts Joseph at L-1.  I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

Worth mentioning that Andrew could just not want to get in those big arguments like with Ash and Yuma and so made a choice to play differently.

Another thing I didn't like is that he never really finds me suspicious for voting him and pushing his lynch.  That's a big of a red flag for me (the anti-OMGUS thing).  Voting me when my wagon started to grow, without much of a read on me one way or the other as his wagon grew.

Other things are just, it's what I feel, like gut.

I've admittedly become more unsure about things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:06:32 pm
There were PPEs there.

I'm not going to stay up, very tired here.

I can hammer or I can hold off and let someone else if we think we want more time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:09:25 pm
So my feelings on Andrew are basically these things.  Well the first I can't explain well.  It may just be his posting style.  Early on it was, like, a lot of comments without actually making much contribution to the game.  Somewhat opportunistically puts Joseph at L-1.  I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

Worth mentioning that Andrew could just not want to get in those big arguments like with Ash and Yuma and so made a choice to play differently.

Another thing I didn't like is that he never really finds me suspicious for voting him and pushing his lynch.  That's a big of a red flag for me (the anti-OMGUS thing).  Voting me when my wagon started to grow, without much of a read on me one way or the other as his wagon grew.

Other things are just, it's what I feel, like gut.

I've admittedly become more unsure about things.

You sound townie here!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:12:09 pm
I say hit it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:13:00 pm
I should rephrase.

If Dylan is on, he should consider this intent to hammer and claim.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:14:26 pm
So my feelings on Andrew are basically these things.  Well the first I can't explain well.  It may just be his posting style.  Early on it was, like, a lot of comments without actually making much contribution to the game.  Somewhat opportunistically puts Joseph at L-1.  I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

Worth mentioning that Andrew could just not want to get in those big arguments like with Ash and Yuma and so made a choice to play differently.

Yes. I'm making a conscious effort not to take it to that level, that was never pleasant. I recently reread a game where we had a big fight and I offended you, which I forgot about. Not trying to replicate that.

Quote
Another thing I didn't like is that he never really finds me suspicious for voting him and pushing his lynch.  That's a big of a red flag for me (the anti-OMGUS thing).  Voting me when my wagon started to grow, without much of a read on me one way or the other as his wagon grew.

Other things are just, it's what I feel, like gut.

I've admittedly become more unsure about things.

I don't find everyone that suspects me to be scum. I did suspect you slightly, mostly because of your posting style which I hadn't seen from you before, but mainly I voted you because 1) you were an alternative to my wagon and 2) I was hoping to help provoke you to post more meaningful content, which I think you've done since then. I'm not taking credit for it but I know you're a valuable asset to town and I want you to be scumhunting instead of sarcastically egging people on and whatnot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:15:01 pm
holy fuck twm was a post goliath in M91


another thing i decided is that my townreads are just better than my scumreads. and i currently think all of {ww, mcmc, robz, twm, maybe andrew} are town.


i opened a door at some point about shitting on scum play re: mcmc; i think that he is weak at emoting and organic thoughts/interaction when he's scum, and he has had, like, opinions this game.
milk macaroon: as i said, human. there is one specific thing that i'm thinking of with this
this was use of allcaps


twm sorta similar. he was much more glued to the game in M91, here he's talking to people.


ww i think i don't want to talk about, still. but i think i have figured out how he approaches playing scum, and unless somebody points me to a scumgame where he is this aggressive i am going to be quite confident he's town here


robz i talked about
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:16:33 pm
I say hit it.

Not interested in a claim?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:17:15 pm
(Note to self: be more aggressive as scum.)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:17:35 pm
(Note to self: be more aggressive as scum.)
yeah yeah blah blah
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:18:24 pm
I say hit it.

Not interested in a claim?

If Dylan is on. Then sure. But if WW is the only person who could vote for Dylan in the next hourish, I would rather get a lynch and not risk a no lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:19:12 pm
(Note to self: be more aggressive as scum.)

For some reason this reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5CZ58CBGtg

I say hit it.

Not interested in a claim?

If Dylan is on. Then sure. But if WW is the only person who could vote for Dylan in the next hourish, I would rather get a lynch and not risk a no lynch.

Word.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:19:41 pm
Sorry I thought that would just be a link.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:21:36 pm
simpsons made so much more sense when i learned a ton of the writers came from harvard's comedy club thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:21:42 pm
Calling it.

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:22:22 pm
pow!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:22:34 pm
pow!
boom!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:23:12 pm
[sound effect of the sun shattering]
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 11:23:46 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:24:35 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:25:12 pm
what do we do if i die?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:32:54 pm
so posts #717-878 were not the unsurmountable fortress i thought they were


a lot of ego fighting (on MS people sorta use this as a catch-all term for argument about meta-type stuff, like how to go about a situation/what is protown & what isn't) which i don't sort very well. so who cares
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 19, 2017, 11:34:40 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Mcmc seems town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 19, 2017, 11:36:32 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?

Talking to town, the two games I was scum I was like only person to do repost the lynch wagons so we could look at them all next to eachother and no one did post counts(I wasn't going to as scum). So if I die I want a towny to do those two things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:36:41 pm
i'm back to null on eevee, there were a bunch of things i misremembered about M90 & M92. can go into what i was thinking if people want but there isn't that much useful from it. so there's three of you left, and one died a bit ago


Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)
Mcmc seems town.
yes. this is another thing i think he's bad at when he's scum
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:38:56 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?

Talking to town, the two games I was scum I was like only person to do repost the lynch wagons so we could look at them all next to eachother and no one did post counts(I wasn't going to as scum). So if I die I want a towny to do those two things.

I'll do it even if you are still alive, assuming of course that I am still alive. And if I am dead, I'll do it in the speccy! Scouts honor!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 19, 2017, 11:39:30 pm
I wanted to wait up until we saw a flip. But I am tired. So I am going to bed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:41:53 pm
have a sleep!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 19, 2017, 11:46:48 pm
I wanted to wait up until we saw a flip. But I am tired. So I am going to bed.

As a PSA to anyone else, LaLight won't give us a flip until 11:21 a.m. forum time. I wouldn't stay up waiting for it. Staying up until Dylan says something is another story.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 19, 2017, 11:50:09 pm
oh right
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:52:31 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?

Talking to town, the two games I was scum I was like only person to do repost the lynch wagons so we could look at them all next to eachother and no one did post counts(I wasn't going to as scum). So if I die I want a towny to do those two things.

I'm confident you'll still be alive and you'll be the one doing this. No towncred from me for it though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 19, 2017, 11:54:31 pm
Although I will say this: if Dylan flips scum that'll almost clear mcmc for me. Almost.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 12:01:53 am
ee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:22:11 am
I suppose I ended up the mislynch. I'm a VT.  Well played whoever the scum driving that was.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:22:44 am
And since I'm flipping town, Mcmc should 100% not be cleared.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:24:59 am
Vote Count 1.final

mcmcsalot (3): Dylan32, ashersky, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5+2):, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it took 5+2 to lynch. Twilight ends at 13-2.13+2pm FT.

I'll save a little digging and post the D1 count here.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:25:26 am
Note the 3 people on mcmc's final wagon will all be conf!town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:26:33 am
I do think that if TWM was scum, they would have wanted to be off wagon first day and on someone else to set up their vote to be on the next day's wagon. It's something to consider.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:27:47 am
I don't really have much to go off of, but my gut read (plus whatever I've said previously) is that the scum team is mcmc, TWM, and WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:30:41 am
Although I could be convinced to flip Robz and WW in that list if Robz is actually playing the scum!lurker game...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 12:35:07 am
why not me?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:38:36 am
why not me?

I needed just 3 names for a prediction. No reason other than that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 12:39:20 am
uh, ok
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:39:32 am
I don't actually agree with Andrew that you were particularly similar in this game and Squid girl throughout. You might have had moments here that were similar, but nothing on that level.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:41:05 am
But for the most part, you've just been pretty null other than feeling slightly different from that game, so idk. I don't like your question though. Reminds me too much of me telling IDPTG not to town read me when I was scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:44:10 am
Oh yeah, so it's on record, I know I talked about Eevee being my top scum read earlier, but remembering that all 3 people who ended on mcmc were conftown made me flip it. Also, enough people said that Eevee was acting like normal eevee that I softened on it a bit I think.

Not that anyone really cares right now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 12:44:57 am

But for the most part, you've just been pretty null other than feeling slightly different from that game, so idk. I don't like your question though. Reminds me too much of me telling IDPTG not to town read me when I was scum.
was making sure you couldn't cast suspicion on me by not mentioning me if you're twilight trolling
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:46:33 am
Yeah I'm not trolling. I've got a feeling that on the day I do finally get lynched as scum, either my trolling will be obvious or I just won't care enough to do it at all. Probably the latter.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:48:58 am
I'm not sure who all actually ended up on my wagon, and I don't care to go back and look, but if IDPTG is off both wagons, I think he's probably more likely to be town. I think he would try to be on wagon the 2nd day to let partner stay off potentially.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on March 20, 2017, 12:51:15 am
And sorry for posting a ton of spammy short messages. I figured it would be better to do it like that so that if the thread locks at least some thoughts would get out there. That's all I've got to say I guess. So happy scum hunting, and Godspeed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 12:52:57 am
thread stays open for about 11hr
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 20, 2017, 01:06:44 am
Vote Count 2.final

Dylan32 (6): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, AndrewisFTTW, schadd, Witherweaver
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
Witherweaver (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame


With 13-3 alive it took 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ended at 8+3.21 pm. Twilight started then and will end at 8+3.21 am.[color]

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 20, 2017, 07:34:19 am
Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 20, 2017, 08:34:38 am
Remeber everyone scum has to "troll" every twilight since there is still a governor which could prevent the lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 09:05:10 am
right


pps, shouldn't you be more excited about talking to d32
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 20, 2017, 09:31:27 am
right


pps, shouldn't you be more excited about talking to d32

I assume you are referring to my insistence that the D1 mislynch give us reads. The big difference there was he claimed governor and I though the shot was already made so he was dead IC walking.

I think we mislynched again so I suppose I am curious which of his wagon Dylan sees as the scumz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 20, 2017, 10:49:35 am
Remeber everyone scum has to "troll" every twilight since there is still a governor which could prevent the lynch.

Dylan claimed VT. I think if he wanted the Governor to use his shot he would've claimed a PR, which wouldn't make him an IC since we probably wouldn't see the flip but it would use up the shot. Even if we get a flip and he's scum it would still benefit scum to have claimed a PR.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 20, 2017, 10:50:52 am
Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 20, 2017, 11:06:25 am
Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?

Lurky, Voter #1, Reasons
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 20, 2017, 11:20:38 am
random thought: flavor in this game makes it easy to explicitly breadcrumb who you're targeting for e.g. bodyguard
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on March 20, 2017, 11:22:02 am
Thread Locked

Dylan 32 has been lynched! He was  514229, the Vanilla Townie!

Night 2 starts.
Please submit all night actions within 34+13+1 hours. Day 3 will start on Wednesday, March 21+1nd at 13-2am forum time.
[/b]
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 22, 2017, 10:56:32 am
13-1, 21+5, 8, 21+3, 21+5, 3+1, 21+5, 8+1, 8+1, 21-2, 8, 21, 13, 21, 21-1!

mcmcsalot was killed during the night! He was 4517090495650391871408712937, the Town Virgin!

Day 3 starts now and ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 22, 2017, 10:58:22 am
Vote Count 3.0


Not Voting ( 8 ): Witherweaver, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, schadd, pingpongsam, Eevee

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:01:53 am
So Virgin means kills the next night phase are blocked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:06:17 am
So Virgin means kills the next night phase are blocked.

That's pretty sweet.

Sorry for my absence yesterday, guys.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:09:10 am
vote: pps
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:09:36 am
Yeah not bad! And I was.... ahem... uh.... ehhhrrrmmmm....

wrong.

Sorry mcmc.

Gonna do a little rereading.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:12:28 am
so ash vs. mcmc was tvt. willing to believe mcmc v andrew is as well but i'll look back. you usually don't nk your scumreads


fortunately this isn't mylo. thanks for being obvtown, mcmc
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:13:18 am
vote: pps

And yeah, I'll sheep that for now.

vote: pps
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:14:16 am
Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:14:47 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:15:37 am
post-hoc?


unvote
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 22, 2017, 11:15:55 am
vote: pps

And yeah, I'll sheep that for now.

vote: pps

No surprise, there.

We should have never abandoned your wagon, mcmc was right about you.

Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:16:08 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:16:51 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:18:21 am
vote: pps

And yeah, I'll sheep that for now.

vote: pps

No surprise, there.

We should have never abandoned your wagon, mcmc was right about you.

Vote: Andrew

How so?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:18:30 am
So there's gotta be scum on the wagon. Multiple scum a distinct possibility.

That leaves TWM, Andrew, schadd, WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:19:18 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.
townslippish
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:19:18 am
vote: pps

And yeah, I'll sheep that for now.

vote: pps

No surprise, there.

We should have never abandoned your wagon, mcmc was right about you.

Vote: Andrew

Killing mcmc makes Andrew look more guilty. Not sure it's something he would do as scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:19:38 am
vote: pps

Why did you try to hide this vote? Don't give me some cute schadd answer.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:19:48 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.
townslippish

Trivially constructable.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:20:03 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.
townslippish

What's the slip?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:20:14 am
vote: pps

And yeah, I'll sheep that for now.

vote: pps

No surprise, there.

We should have never abandoned your wagon, mcmc was right about you.

Vote: Andrew

Killing mcmc makes Andrew look more guilty. Not sure it's something he would do as scum.

I bet there are more scum than he.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:20:33 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.

I think he would have to be roleblocked last night right?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:22:14 am

vote: pps

Why did you try to hide this vote? Don't give me some cute schadd answer.
uh, didn't try to hide it. hated how he defended d32 post-hammer, and i voted him after noting that voting him is fine
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:22:40 am
You are [flavor name], the Virgin!

If you killed during the night, the following night the mafia's nightkill will be blocked. Your power is permanently lost if you are targeted by a Roleblocker.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 11:22:59 am
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.

How is it blockable?

Answered my own question: If mcmc was roleblocked on one of the two previous nights.
townslippish

Trivially constructable.
note the ish
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:23:16 am
So confused.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:24:10 am
You are [flavor name], the Virgin!

If you killed during the night, the following night the mafia's nightkill will be blocked. Your power is permanently lost if you are targeted by a Roleblocker.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.

Ah, thanks.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:25:44 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:27:04 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Possibly. Got a pros & cons list handy?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:27:28 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Perhaps. We don't have an IC to lead it, though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:28:03 am
I would largely support it on the basis of, previously when I've been scum in setups like this, I've feared massclaims.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 11:32:05 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Perhaps. We don't have an IC to lead it, though.

That can be circumvented perhaps; other people's opinions?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 11:39:35 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Perhaps. We don't have an IC to lead it, though.

Yeah we do. The UB. The UB still has their shot so if scum counterclaims and we lynch the UB, the UB doesn't die. I'm not convinced it's a good idea though. And this assumes the UB exists.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 11:41:38 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Perhaps. We don't have an IC to lead it, though.

Yeah we do. The UB. The UB still has their shot so if scum counterclaims and we lynch the UB, the UB doesn't die. I'm not convinced it's a good idea though. And this assumes the UB exists.

Unless the UB got Roleblocked last night.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 11:45:48 am
I think I'd support a massclaim if anyone thinks it's a good idea.

Perhaps. We don't have an IC to lead it, though.

Yeah we do. The UB. The UB still has their shot so if scum counterclaims and we lynch the UB, the UB doesn't die. I'm not convinced it's a good idea though. And this assumes the UB exists.

I think I said this last night but if scum was lynched they would want to claim a PR during twilight to get the UB to use his shot. So I guess a massclaim would make sure that doesn't happen, unless I'm missing something.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:47:21 am
Right. I support massclaim.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 11:48:22 am
Led by the UB, who comes out first.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 12:08:05 pm
Would scum NK a confirmed Virgin over a random NK?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 01:14:13 pm
with the given flips we are at 50/50 of there being a strongman
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 01:30:22 pm
oh fuck


just noticed the small text. i did that on my phone, which also has the dumb formatting issues that i always have for some reason. entirely unintentional
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 01:33:04 pm
oh fuck


just noticed the small text. i did that on my phone, which also has the dumb formatting issues that i always have for some reason. entirely unintentional

So is that a real vote?  It probably doesn't count in small text, if it's even bolded.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 01:39:02 pm
well i unvoted
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 22, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
I support massclaim. I have never and thought I would never but I've had a few games recently where it was proposed and later I think we would have been better too. Besides, the alternative is the usual dumbassery of forced runups to force out claims. I think you all know how I feel about those and my latest solution hasn't proven effective at either deterring it or helping town in any appreciable way.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 02:19:41 pm
So basically everyone is yes?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 02:20:47 pm
soy si
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 02:24:55 pm
Let's do it. We need our UB to claim, then.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 03:06:24 pm
I'm the UB, now a 1-shot Governor with the shot remaining.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:08:18 pm
That's good. 

Give us a claim order.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:11:32 pm
oh, nice.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 03:12:27 pm
WW
schadd
AndrewisFTTW
Robz888
pingpongsam
Eevee
TWM
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 03:13:19 pm
I was going to leave TWM higher, but he doesn't seem to be here and I figure we should get this going.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:19:26 pm
Okay.  I am a Bodyguard.

Day 1 I intended to guard Joseph, as that is best-case scenario, and this is why I insisted he use his shot.  But he didn't.  So I guarded PPS.  I don't remember if I crumbed it or not, but I think I made it clear at some point Day 1 that I thought PPS was town.  (Not a likely NK, though.)

Last night I guarded McMc.  This is why I brought up Virgin being blockable, because that was the case.  (Me using "block" instead of the obvious "Switch" was an attempt to not out my protective PR, though scum probably picked up on it anyway, which is why I decided to just propose the massclaim.  I was considering claiming regardless.)  So scum used their switch on protective roles last night.

This means in particular, that McMc's role will not be active, so Night Kills will go through tonight.  (I specifically asked this in my QT.)

I crumbed McMc target by saying I thought he was town before the flip.  He was certainly going to be my target if Dylan was scum.  When Dylan flipped town, I didn't really think McMc was the best target, but I felt I still had to target him, because if I happened to guard someone else and that person was killed, McMc would get the semi-IC status, which might have not been correct. Ironic how it worked out.  I thought a long time about responding to schadd's "what if I die" thing with some form of "I won't let that happen to you!", but I couldn't figure out how to make it not obvious.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:21:31 pm
i'm vt
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 03:23:17 pm
I'm a VT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 03:29:57 pm
I'm also a VT.

I don't understand why WW targeting mcmc causes his Virgin thing to not work.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:31:15 pm
he is claiming that it didn't work because protective roles were switched
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:32:31 pm
he is claiming that it didn't work because protective roles were switched

This is the only conclusion, unless I'm missing something.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:33:17 pm
town rb/jk. but this will be revealed if so
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 22, 2017, 03:34:13 pm
If they used the switch that means a NK could go through tonight. Which means if we mislynch today and a NK goes through we lose.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:34:19 pm
or strongman. you didn't consider strongman?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:36:10 pm
or strongman. you didn't consider strongman?

Strongman should not effect Bodyguard, just means I strongly die instead of my target.

I did, however, completely neglect that town could have RB.  I checked for RB from scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:39:30 pm

dude, no

Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Strongman!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
If you perform your faction's kill, no protective role targeting your target (Jailkeeper or Bodyguard) can save them.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:40:46 pm
Oh.  Well that's dumb.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:41:15 pm
you didn't think to, like, ever check the PM?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:41:39 pm
No, I just thought the roles were standard.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:45:15 pm
Well scum has to have Strongman:

1-Shot Gov: VV (Min)
Virgin: P
Bodyguard: P

so TT or less.

So I suppose we don't know about tonight.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:45:55 pm
Also means my role is useless.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 03:46:43 pm
i mean, that smells manufactured townslip, in isolation at least. and you do that sort of thing. but whatever.


does strongman go through virgin?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:47:10 pm
Also Robz didn't forget about Switch; we were scum together in this same setup that just ran, and there we legitimately forgot about the switch until the last day, where we realized we had this cool thing we could do.  I doubt that all slipped his mind.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:47:55 pm
Strongman shouldn't cancel out Virgin, since Virgin isn't a targeting protective role.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 03:52:09 pm
It will amuse you to see how many false assumptions are in my QT at the end of this game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 22, 2017, 04:19:31 pm
i mean, that smells manufactured townslip, in isolation at least. and you do that sort of thing. but whatever.


does strongman go through virgin?

*chuckle*

virgin role specifically points that there can be no NK at all if it's triggered.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 04:25:00 pm
I think it's more likely scum strong-killed mcmc than that they activated the switch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 04:25:36 pm
town rb/jk. but this will be revealed if so

What is this claim?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 04:31:53 pm
not a claim, suggestion of something that could cause bodyguard to fail
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 04:32:53 pm
I think it's more likely scum strong-killed mcmc than that they activated the switch.

So you believe my claim?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 04:36:19 pm
town rb/jk. but this will be revealed if so

What is this claim?

Okay, got it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 04:36:53 pm
I think it's more likely scum strong-killed mcmc than that they activated the switch.

So you believe my claim?

I'm leaning that way.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 22, 2017, 05:28:16 pm
<--- this guy is a VT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 22, 2017, 06:47:34 pm
I was going to leave TWM higher, but he doesn't seem to be here and I figure we should get this going.

I am here now! Do all of you people not work (or are European and have different working hours)?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 22, 2017, 06:48:00 pm
Groan at my use of the phrase "you people."
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 22, 2017, 06:49:58 pm
I work on a computer all day if that explains anything.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 22, 2017, 06:51:40 pm
Eevee might not be on for a while (he is vacationing if I remember the VLA correctly). As such, I can go before him if that is desired?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 22, 2017, 06:52:39 pm
I work on a computer all day if that explains anything.

So do I. However, I can't ever find the time to get on for more than 1 minute before someone wants me to do something for them.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 22, 2017, 08:46:47 pm
Eevee might not be on for a while (he is vacationing if I remember the VLA correctly). As such, I can go before him if that is desired?

Yeah I think you can just go ahead.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 08:56:26 pm
Am I supposed to be in charge of who claims when?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 22, 2017, 09:01:58 pm
Am I supposed to be in charge of who claims when?

I thought so. But at this point, I don't think it matters that much.

I am a Vanilla Townie.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 09:15:13 pm
Claims:

IDPTG: 1-shot Governor
WW: Bodyguard
schadd: VT
AndrewisFTTW: VT
Robz888: VT
pingpongsam: VT
TWM: VT

Just waiting on Eevee who is apparently V/LA. Someone correct me if I have an error.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 09:29:47 pm
Since mcmc asked someone to:

Vote Count 1.final

mcmcsalot (3): Dylan32, ashersky, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (5+2):, mcmcsalot, Witherweaver, Robz888, schadd, Eevee, AndrewisFTTW, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame

With 13-1 alive, it took 5+2 to lynch. Twilight ends at 13-2.13+2pm FT.

Vote Count 2.final

Dylan32 (6): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, mcmcsalot, AndrewisFTTW, schadd, Witherweaver
AndrewisFTTW (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
Witherweaver (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): IDontPlayThisGame


With 13-3 alive it took 5+1 to lynch.
Day 2 ended at 8+3.21 pm. Twilight started then and will end at 8+3.21 am.[color]


So...mcmc's D1 wagon is dead. Not sure what else to get from that other than TWM is the only person to have ended both days voting the same person (who's now a dead VT).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 22, 2017, 10:15:49 pm
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 22, 2017, 10:19:36 pm
Virgin effect is blockable, FYI.
What do you mean?

Switch nullifies it.  Not as significant now that I know Strongman goes through my bodyguard.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 22, 2017, 10:25:29 pm
VT!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 22, 2017, 10:26:28 pm
neat


ww more or less locktown from this
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 22, 2017, 10:27:22 pm
Claims:

IDPTG: 1-shot Governor
WW: Bodyguard
schadd: VT
AndrewisFTTW: VT
Robz888: VT
pingpongsam: VT
TWM: VT
Eevee: VT
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 22, 2017, 10:36:25 pm
My friend is bringing me a laptop from home tomorrow, will make rereading great again. Or at least easier.

The switch to Dylan yesterday seems so hasty it feels scum-driven to me. Interested to look back what happened there.

Mcmc (and WW! thank god, i might have voted for him today)  being town also seems like an important piece of information. I think andrew would be less likely to kill mcmc, in my experience scum wants to keep their (fake) scumreads alive because it's natural and easy to keep pushing them. OTOH there are two other scum and maybe they had stronger reasons for killing mcmc, or they feared his reads or activity.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 08:26:27 am
Crickets! What's up guys?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 09:16:34 am
The switch to Dylan yesterday seems so hasty it feels scum-driven to me. Interested to look back what happened there.

So what is the narrative there? It had to be hasty due to the deadline coming up. So I don't think that is a factor. What should be the question is this:

Was the lynch scum driven to move away from Andrew to avoid lynching a partner? Or was it driven by town because they feared a mislynch and mafia went along with it?

It is somewhat hard to answer that question without knowing Andrew's alignment, but I do know my alignment and mcmc's alignment and I would say we were the principle drivers toward the dylan lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 23, 2017, 09:28:21 am
So we have PPVV, leaving scum with TT: Rolecop, 2-Shot Ninja, Strongman.

I think we probably have to assume WW's Bodyguard claim is true. The setup does not allow for two Bodyguards, so he actually culd have been counterclaimed. And his confusion over how it works in conjunction with other stuff seems genuine. So yeah, I accept the claim.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 23, 2017, 09:29:12 am
I'm probably scummiest on TWM and schadd right now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 09:32:24 am
So we have PPVV, leaving scum with TT: Rolecop, 2-Shot Ninja, Strongman.

I think we probably have to assume WW's Bodyguard claim is true. The setup does not allow for two Bodyguards, so he actually culd have been counterclaimed. And his confusion over how it works in conjunction with other stuff seems genuine. So yeah, I accept the claim.

I tentatively agree. The only thing that makes me wonder is if mafia has 1-shot Ninja instead of 2-shot ninja (TTT). Joseph's role and mcmc's role combine to make VVP. And mafia could have known that all town roles had been revealed already and WW could safely fake claim.

Although I guess that gets thrown under the water as soon as either the Goon or 1-shot Ninja flip. So, yeah, I agree more now that I wrote this out.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 09:43:26 am
If there is even a chance we are at MYLO, probably better to err on the side of caution with votes.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 10:03:36 am
If there is even a chance we are at MYLO, probably better to err on the side of caution with votes.

Agreed, Unvote
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 10:07:46 am
So we have PPVV, leaving scum with TT: Rolecop, 2-Shot Ninja, Strongman.

I think we probably have to assume WW's Bodyguard claim is true. The setup does not allow for two Bodyguards, so he actually culd have been counterclaimed. And his confusion over how it works in conjunction with other stuff seems genuine. So yeah, I accept the claim.

I tentatively agree. The only thing that makes me wonder is if mafia has 1-shot Ninja instead of 2-shot ninja (TTT). Joseph's role and mcmc's role combine to make VVP. And mafia could have known that all town roles had been revealed already and WW could safely fake claim.

Although I guess that gets thrown under the water as soon as either the Goon or 1-shot Ninja flip. So, yeah, I agree more now that I wrote this out.

I think this is always setup where scum can't know number of PRs to full accuracy: two different numbers of T roles give rise to the same observed scum powers.  I also claimed first (after UB), so I don't think there's any conceivable way where I could have fake claimed fully safely.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 10:23:03 am
So we have PPVV, leaving scum with TT: Rolecop, 2-Shot Ninja, Strongman.

I think we probably have to assume WW's Bodyguard claim is true. The setup does not allow for two Bodyguards, so he actually culd have been counterclaimed. And his confusion over how it works in conjunction with other stuff seems genuine. So yeah, I accept the claim.

Maybe, but that's assuming all three scum claimed VT. I think at least one of them would want to claim a PR, right? I'm not FoSing WW, but it just seems off to me that there's only one other PR other than WW. The other possibility is lying town. Scum could potentially pass itself off as lying town or could still claim to be lying town post lynch. For example: a Tracker who thinks scum will go ahead and kill IDP since they are under the impression that there are no more PRs left and there's a high chance this would lead to a scum lynch the next day. I guess what I was saying earlier could still apply. Scum could claim a PR post lynch even after the massclaim to try to get the UB to use his shot.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 10:28:13 am
I'm probably scummiest on TWM and schadd right now.

I agree on TWM but also pps (off wagon). Also I'm wary of you and schadd, as you have both gone through the whole game without any suspicion whatsoever. I mean I still have a townread on schadd but after mcmc flipped I'm not so inclined to trust myself anymore.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 10:35:07 am
pps was absent for the whole Dylan wagon, although it happened in a fairly short time so there could've been a IRL conflict or something for him. Also I'm curious if pps ever gave his "reasons" here:

Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?

Lurky, Voter #1, Reasons
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 10:35:53 am
So we have PPVV, leaving scum with TT: Rolecop, 2-Shot Ninja, Strongman.

I think we probably have to assume WW's Bodyguard claim is true. The setup does not allow for two Bodyguards, so he actually culd have been counterclaimed. And his confusion over how it works in conjunction with other stuff seems genuine. So yeah, I accept the claim.

I tentatively agree. The only thing that makes me wonder is if mafia has 1-shot Ninja instead of 2-shot ninja (TTT). Joseph's role and mcmc's role combine to make VVP. And mafia could have known that all town roles had been revealed already and WW could safely fake claim.

Although I guess that gets thrown under the water as soon as either the Goon or 1-shot Ninja flip. So, yeah, I agree more now that I wrote this out.

I think this is always setup where scum can't know number of PRs to full accuracy: two different numbers of T roles give rise to the same observed scum powers.  I also claimed first (after UB), so I don't think there's any conceivable way where I could have fake claimed fully safely.

What I meant was that if the scum team was the following:

Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon (as mafia wouldn't know anything ascetic) then one of the two would have to be possible: TTTT or TTT. With Joseph's role and mcmc's role that is VVP. So the TTTT option isn't possible. Mafia would then know that the setup must be TTT.

If you knew that, you could have conceivably felt ok claiming Bodyguard, because you would know that there couldn't possibly be any further town PR roles out there. There isn't a risk of any counter claiming. The only risk is if a mafia was lynched that was 1-shot Ninja or Goon. As that would show that the role couldn't be TT, and must have at least been TTT. So, yes, that is still a risk. But you would have at least been safe for today.

So, I am not 100% convinced, but more confident than I initially was.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 10:36:02 am
I was asleep while everyone decided to kill Dylan instead of Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 10:37:27 am
pps was absent for the whole Dylan wagon, although it happened in a fairly short time so there could've been a IRL conflict or something for him. Also I'm curious if pps ever gave his "reasons" here:

Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?

Lurky, Voter #1, Reasons

Reasons is he is looking more and more like scum Robz letting town kill themselves without much effort on his part. I think town Robz would have engaged at this point to try to help us dig out of the hole we're in.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 10:39:22 am
I'm not moving off of Andrew today.

I would see Andrew, Robz, maybe Schadd/Eevee as team.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 10:40:05 am
pps was absent for the whole Dylan wagon, although it happened in a fairly short time so there could've been a IRL conflict or something for him. Also I'm curious if pps ever gave his "reasons" here:

Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?

Lurky, Voter #1, Reasons

Reasons is he is looking more and more like scum Robz letting town kill themselves without much effort on his part. I think town Robz would have engaged at this point to try to help us dig out of the hole we're in.

Yeah but he's here. Were you expecting him to be leading town today or something?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 10:41:43 am
pps was absent for the whole Dylan wagon, although it happened in a fairly short time so there could've been a IRL conflict or something for him. Also I'm curious if pps ever gave his "reasons" here:

Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.

Why Robz?

Lurky, Voter #1, Reasons

Reasons is he is looking more and more like scum Robz letting town kill themselves without much effort on his part. I think town Robz would have engaged at this point to try to help us dig out of the hole we're in.

Yeah but he's here. Were you expecting him to be leading town today or something?

Robz can and will lead when it behooves him to do so. Apparently it does not behoove which reads scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:53:54 am
PPS is making a valid point about robz. Scum has got to be pretty happy with how things have been going.

We are obviously not going to lynch WW today, so I think any edge-case suspicions on him should be left for later when they might become relevant. I'm always wary of speaking against someone becoming (for all intents and purposes) an IC, IC's are what scum fears the most.

I know this is  hindsight, but did we gain anything by joseph falling on his sword? Who suggested that? Seems a little bold for scum manipulation, but as far as i can tell that turned out pretty bad for us.

Is my memory failing me, or has PPS been the most vocal voice of suspicion against robz earlier days as well?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 23, 2017, 11:12:03 am
Vote Count 3.1

pingpongsam (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (5+1): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, schadd, pingpongsam, Eevee

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 23, 2017, 12:23:15 pm
I'm leaning town on Eevee. My scum are threee of TWM, schadd, PPS, Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 12:40:08 pm
mine are in twm, eevee, pps, android. don't think pps v android is svs though, and i have moreish thoughts l8r
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 01:21:09 pm
mine are in twm, eevee, pps, android. don't think pps v android is svs though, and i have moreish thoughts l8r

words?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 01:21:53 pm
I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 02:20:02 pm
ww i'm just going to say is town, cool, done. i was at about 95% town on him before D3, just from having read his last uh 4 games (M90, M95, RMM40, ZM23). his approach to playing scum, in M90 & RMM40, was just to come up with a bunch of different townslippy/organic things and throw shade at people/converse without committing to anyone, whereas when he's town he is more testy, invested, and interested in lynching people. i think that he's been much more of the latter in this game, and i see no reason to believe he would specifically switch things up (considering he was super townread in M90, townread by all means except game state in RMM40, and got lynched D2 in M95). and also just by gamestate i would say he has an additional (er, multiplicative i guess) 95% chance of being town here (since he's confirmable by any scum flip other than rolecop and he has sown worry about switch which has no scum benefit really)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 02:24:22 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 03:03:21 pm
I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 23, 2017, 03:40:21 pm
I'll do a more complete read later, but I'm leaning to vote Andrew or TWM.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 03:42:20 pm
The Wine Merchant seemed pretty townie on Day 2.  But, it's the first time I played with him, and he could be good at looking like he's thinking like town.

I'm not completely writing him off as town, but he'd be bottom of my lynch list.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 03:48:26 pm
I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew

Right, let's do exactly what scum wants everyone to do. Obviously they didn't choose to kill mcmc at random. They did it so everyone could point to me afterwards and easily mislynch me, just like yesterday. If I was scum why the hell would I want to kill mcmc last night? Especially after all the scum reads mcmc was getting during twilight, I think an mcmc lynch today was probable.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 03:54:00 pm
I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew

Right, let's do exactly what scum wants everyone to do. Obviously they didn't choose to kill mcmc at random. They did it so everyone could point to me afterwards and easily mislynch me, just like yesterday. If I was scum why the hell would I want to kill mcmc last night? Especially after all the scum reads mcmc was getting during twilight, I think an mcmc lynch today was probable.

I feel like mcmc would have pushed for your lynch if he were left alive. So I don't know if I buy this logic. I really don't think mcmc would have been mislynched today. I wouldnt' have gone for it and I think a majority of others would have felt the same. But I guess that is all speculation. More important is that the reasons you were scummy yesterday still exist.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 03:56:36 pm
The Wine Merchant seemed pretty townie on Day 2.  But, it's the first time I played with him, and he could be good at looking like he's thinking like town.

I'm not completely writing him off as town, but he'd be bottom of my lynch list.

More wine for you!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 03:59:00 pm
By the way, mcmc's wagon stalled D1. It doesn't mean anything in terms of alignment.

I mean it seems like the only reason pps wants to lynch me today is because my wagon failed yesterday and he's bitter about it. mcmc was the only one to even have a case on me for anything. WW even admitted his scum read on me is more a gut read than anything. With everything that has happened why do you guys insist on just following your gut? At this stage in the game I'm not going to just throw my vote on someone just because I have this feeling that they're scum, I'm going to go back and read and provide evidence for what I think is scummy. With pps specifically it feels like a copout for not doing any work or providing facts. He just says my wagon stalled and places a vote. Done. That is scummy.

I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew

Right, let's do exactly what scum wants everyone to do. Obviously they didn't choose to kill mcmc at random. They did it so everyone could point to me afterwards and easily mislynch me, just like yesterday. If I was scum why the hell would I want to kill mcmc last night? Especially after all the scum reads mcmc was getting during twilight, I think an mcmc lynch today was probable.

I feel like mcmc would have pushed for your lynch if he were left alive. So I don't know if I buy this logic. I really don't think mcmc would have been mislynched today. I wouldnt' have gone for it and I think a majority of others would have felt the same. But I guess that is all speculation. More important is that the reasons you were scummy yesterday still exist.

So what are the reasons I was scummy yesterday?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 04:00:12 pm
I was more anti-Andrew than McMc, and probably more of a mislynch target after yesterday.  So I don't think that argument flies.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 04:11:43 pm
I was more anti-Andrew than McMc, and probably more of a mislynch target after yesterday.  So I don't think that argument flies.

I was specifically referring to this post:

So my feelings on Andrew are basically these things.  Well the first I can't explain well.  It may just be his posting style.  Early on it was, like, a lot of comments without actually making much contribution to the game.  Somewhat opportunistically puts Joseph at L-1.  I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

Worth mentioning that Andrew could just not want to get in those big arguments like with Ash and Yuma and so made a choice to play differently.

Another thing I didn't like is that he never really finds me suspicious for voting him and pushing his lynch.  That's a big of a red flag for me (the anti-OMGUS thing).  Voting me when my wagon started to grow, without much of a read on me one way or the other as his wagon grew.

Other things are just, it's what I feel, like gut.

I've admittedly become more unsure about things.

To which I responded:

So my feelings on Andrew are basically these things.  Well the first I can't explain well.  It may just be his posting style.  Early on it was, like, a lot of comments without actually making much contribution to the game.  Somewhat opportunistically puts Joseph at L-1.  I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

Worth mentioning that Andrew could just not want to get in those big arguments like with Ash and Yuma and so made a choice to play differently.

Yes. I'm making a conscious effort not to take it to that level, that was never pleasant. I recently reread a game where we had a big fight and I offended you, which I forgot about. Not trying to replicate that.

Quote
Another thing I didn't like is that he never really finds me suspicious for voting him and pushing his lynch.  That's a big of a red flag for me (the anti-OMGUS thing).  Voting me when my wagon started to grow, without much of a read on me one way or the other as his wagon grew.

Other things are just, it's what I feel, like gut.

I've admittedly become more unsure about things.

I don't find everyone that suspects me to be scum. I did suspect you slightly, mostly because of your posting style which I hadn't seen from you before, but mainly I voted you because 1) you were an alternative to my wagon and 2) I was hoping to help provoke you to post more meaningful content, which I think you've done since then. I'm not taking credit for it but I know you're a valuable asset to town and I want you to be scumhunting instead of sarcastically egging people on and whatnot.

Besides your comment about me not paying your vote much attention and me putting Joseph to L-1, you said you suspect me for meta reasons and gut. I'm just arguing that we should be past gut reads, I don't think they count for much right now.

Also, it's been 2 1/2 years but I remember in pretty much every game I've played I've been heavily suspected. I don't know if my playstyle rubs people the wrong way or people read my defensiveness as scummy but it's been a pattern. Maybe it's because I would get upset and confrontational which I'm trying to avoid in all future games.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 04:14:32 pm
Well, I'd say gut is this most important thing in playing these games.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 04:18:18 pm
A big part of mcmc's case on me was when I put Joseph to L-1. He said it just felt like I jumped onto his wagon out of nowhere. But he also said pps looked scummy for quickhammering, which I agree with and I said way back it looks to me like pps is using the "too scummy to be scum" move and will thus be granted towncred which he will use to ride out the rest of the game relatively unsuspected. And it looks like it's worked.

Well, I'd say gut is this most important thing in playing these games.

I agree, especially in the first couple days. But I think now it's being used as an excuse, especially by scum, as to why someone isn't doing work and providing evidence to back up their reads.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 23, 2017, 05:18:05 pm
I'm really undecided on Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 05:21:54 pm
I'm really undecided on Andrew.

We can lynch you instead!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 23, 2017, 05:26:04 pm
I'm really undecided on Andrew.

We can lynch you instead!

I know! I'm surprised you're not trying to!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 05:28:17 pm
I'm really undecided on Andrew.

We can lynch you instead!

I know! I'm surprised you're not trying to!

You are enjoying the special status of not-my-top-scum-read this game.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 05:45:45 pm
I'm really undecided on Andrew.

We can lynch you instead!

We could lynch pps instead.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 06:35:31 pm
A big part of mcmc's case on me was when I put Joseph to L-1. He said it just felt like I jumped onto his wagon out of nowhere. But he also said pps looked scummy for quickhammering, which I agree with and I said way back it looks to me like pps is using the "too scummy to be scum" move and will thus be granted towncred which he will use to ride out the rest of the game relatively unsuspected. And it looks like it's worked.

I said previously that I only thought PPS's hammer could have been scum if his scum partners were already on wagon and felt that it would be beneficial to his team to get the vote down and hammer joseph before a mislynch opportunity dissipated and potentially moved to a mafia partner.

But, now looking at the way the wagons fall, the only way PPS could have been a hammering mafioso is if his partners were already onwagon as IDPTG is the UB and I am town.

Soooooo. I guess I need to actually take a look at that a bit more in depth and see if that meshes out.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 06:39:01 pm
By the way, mcmc's wagon stalled D1. It doesn't mean anything in terms of alignment.

I mean it seems like the only reason pps wants to lynch me today is because my wagon failed yesterday and he's bitter about it. mcmc was the only one to even have a case on me for anything. WW even admitted his scum read on me is more a gut read than anything. With everything that has happened why do you guys insist on just following your gut? At this stage in the game I'm not going to just throw my vote on someone just because I have this feeling that they're scum, I'm going to go back and read and provide evidence for what I think is scummy. With pps specifically it feels like a copout for not doing any work or providing facts. He just says my wagon stalled and places a vote. Done. That is scummy.

I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew

Right, let's do exactly what scum wants everyone to do. Obviously they didn't choose to kill mcmc at random. They did it so everyone could point to me afterwards and easily mislynch me, just like yesterday. If I was scum why the hell would I want to kill mcmc last night? Especially after all the scum reads mcmc was getting during twilight, I think an mcmc lynch today was probable.

I feel like mcmc would have pushed for your lynch if he were left alive. So I don't know if I buy this logic. I really don't think mcmc would have been mislynched today. I wouldnt' have gone for it and I think a majority of others would have felt the same. But I guess that is all speculation. More important is that the reasons you were scummy yesterday still exist.

So what are the reasons I was scummy yesterday?

I stated these in the following posts: 647, 655, 829
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 06:43:57 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 07:11:22 pm
647:

mcmc is still scum read #1 for me, but a lynch pool of the three people off wagon makes sense to me too.

I am only a slight scum read. (woah, my iPad just autocorrected too mcmcsalot instead of the other way around) is a number one scum read. But I am getting the vote.

This is what I was talking about.

Vote: andrew

I was voting you at the time because I was under the impression we were only voting off wagon. I much preferred mcmc.

655:

There is no set rule that we have to lynch off wagon. I can understand why that might be an idea to at least look at, but you are taking it as a rule.

There are 10 players alive. 3 that were off wagon and 7 that were on. I personally think it somewhat unlikely that more than one mafia was off wagon (from my perspective that would mean it would have to be Dylan and IDPTG, which certainly could be possible, but I think rather unlikely). So that is a 1/3 (0.33) chance (1/2 of two from my perspective, but I think it makes more sense to look at it from a strictly neutral position when trying to do these numbers) at best as there is still a decent chance the number of scum off wagon is zero.

As for on wagon it is likely either 3/7 (0.42) or 2/7 (0.28) that are mafia. So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon.

This isn't a case on me.

829:

I wouldn't call you any of those terms, and I agree that even if I felt that way about them, they wouldn't necessarily be scummy.

What I meant, and what I should have been more clear about above, was how you have felt compelled to respond to every point about you. It seems like you are giving more credence to every remark about you, which is precisely how I felt when I was last scum. I feel like town lets things slide off their back more often whereas scum is hyper aware and feels like any suspicion could escalate, so you need to put the damper on it quick. Last game mcmc pointed out I was doing it in the scum QT and it was still really hard to check myself.

That's a fair point, but what I would say to that is it's not really an alignment tell for me. I like discussion and asking questions and seeing what answers I get, and I like debate. Not every response is a defense although I do feel obligated to defend myself sometimes, maybe more often than other people.

You can take it from WW, we played some games together a couple years ago and we had a couple intense arguments.

I remember Andrew as being more argumentative.  He has appealed to that argumentative meta regarding him defending his wagon, but it really didn't feel like he was defending that hard.  Some discussion with McMc and someone else I think, but it never really escalated.

So yeah, I understand we're you're coming from but I think that's just because you've never played a game with me before.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 07:18:15 pm
For the first two, the idea that I had was that you were using the idea of lynching off wagon as a rule to manipulate the lynch toward me/Dylan/IDPTG. That you were willing to go that route even over your scum read of mcmc showed that you cared more about lynching in a certain area than actually lynching scum.

"So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon."

Basically you were doing exactly what I hypothesized. Lynching in an area where there was town and have as a back-up the area where there actually was mafia, but not want to go for those people either.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 07:30:13 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.

In response to the bolded part, says who? I can easily see all three scum being on Joseph's wagon if only because it's not what town would expect. You saw how quickly a couple people did the "hey let's lynch off wagon" thing D2 which implies without any knowledge everyone just assumed there was at least one scum off wagon. But we don't really know that for sure. The benefit of pps quickhammering benefits scum because 1) it was a mislynch, obviously and 2) here we are D3 and a lot of people have written off the quickhammer as obv!town, taking attention off of pps for the most part. I could see scum!pps perfectly willing to risk something like this.

For the first two, the idea that I had was that you were using the idea of lynching off wagon as a rule to manipulate the lynch toward me/Dylan/IDPTG. That you were willing to go that route even over your scum read of mcmc showed that you cared more about lynching in a certain area than actually lynching scum.

I was only willing to go that route because nobody except maybe Dylan wanted to lynch mcmc. If there were a couple more people who thought mcmc looked scummy coming out of D1 I would've said eff that, let's lynch mcmc! And besides, I thought it was a decent idea.

Quote
"So I don't think a rule to have to lynch off wagon today is worth ignoring "strong scum reads" as I think that is potentially what mafia is trying to do. Push a lynch onto an area where there are zero or one mafia and safely ignore the area where there is likely to be a higher number on wagon."

Basically you were doing exactly what I hypothesized. Lynching in an area where there was town and have as a back-up the area where there actually was mafia, but not want to go for those people either.

Do you expect me to be totally stubborn and unwilling to lynch someone who isn't my top scum read? Because that's... kinda how I acted in this game, thinking about it. Probably not the most pro-town play but I was pretty confident in my mcmc read. Anyway, scum is perfectly content to sit back and let town mislynch for them. I thought it was likely there was at least one scum off wagon and there might still be with IDPTG an IC and Dylan conf!town. But I find pps scummier at the moment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 23, 2017, 07:46:31 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?

Talking to town, the two games I was scum I was like only person to do repost the lynch wagons so we could look at them all next to eachother and no one did post counts(I wasn't going to as scum). So if I die I want a towny to do those two things.

I'm confident you'll still be alive and you'll be the one doing this. No towncred from me for it though.

What made you think that he'd still be alive?

@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 07:49:44 pm
Alright, if I die in the night follow up with another post count and put all the lynch wagons next to eachother with alignments(don't include you own)

Who are you talking to and what are you saying?

Talking to town, the two games I was scum I was like only person to do repost the lynch wagons so we could look at them all next to eachother and no one did post counts(I wasn't going to as scum). So if I die I want a towny to do those two things.

I'm confident you'll still be alive and you'll be the one doing this. No towncred from me for it though.

What made you think that he'd still be alive?

@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?

I was confident he was scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 07:53:58 pm
@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?
typically PRs will be quiet D1, as they don't benefit as much from being townread. mcmc was very loud d1 in this game. sort of relevant, he was also really loud/active in M94 in a way that i could have pegged him scum for in M94 if i were still alive, and tried to point out D1 (he didn't claim D1 & claimed inventor later, but played super vt)


i think i know why you are asking
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 08:01:23 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.
In response to the bolded part, says who?

Because the only players who weren't on wagon are dead and town except for IDPTG (UB) and me (I know I am town). So if PPS is mafia his partners had to already be voting, at least from my perspective. If you disagree then that means you must think I am mafia.

Maybe that makes PPS more like to be mafia then? Cause if he is town that means all three mafia had to be on the wagon before him hammering. I guess that is still possible, just means it is more likely a specific strategy thought up during the night.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 08:03:09 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 08:20:13 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.
In response to the bolded part, says who?

Because the only players who weren't on wagon are dead and town except for IDPTG (UB) and me (I know I am town). So if PPS is mafia his partners had to already be voting, at least from my perspective. If you disagree then that means you must think I am mafia.

Maybe that makes PPS more like to be mafia then? Cause if he is town that means all three mafia had to be on the wagon before him hammering. I guess that is still possible, just means it is more likely a specific strategy thought up during the night.

I see what you mean but I posed that as a general question. Not sure why I interpreted it the way I did. I mean I still think you're somewhat scummy so to me there's the possibility that you are the scum off wagon but it's also possible that two were already on and pps, being the third, quickhammered because he anticipated town would look off wagon at least a little bit. I mean I think it makes sense and would definitely be a strategy I would go along with as scum. I don't see why pps wouldn't put it into action.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 08:21:03 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM

See, if you were scum and i was you I would never, ever do this if Robz was also scum and I knew it because I am you and you are scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 08:21:50 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM

See, if you were scum and i was you I would never, ever do this if Robz was also scum and I knew it because I am you and you are scum.

I have this issue with looking at people's play through the lens of how I would do it when nobody does it like me at all except maybe ashersky.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 23, 2017, 08:22:35 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.
In response to the bolded part, says who?

Because the only players who weren't on wagon are dead and town except for IDPTG (UB) and me (I know I am town). So if PPS is mafia his partners had to already be voting, at least from my perspective. If you disagree then that means you must think I am mafia.

Maybe that makes PPS more like to be mafia then? Cause if he is town that means all three mafia had to be on the wagon before him hammering. I guess that is still possible, just means it is more likely a specific strategy thought up during the night.

I see what you mean but I posed that as a general question. Not sure why I interpreted it the way I did. I mean I still think you're somewhat scummy so to me there's the possibility that you are the scum off wagon but it's also possible that two were already on and pps, being the third, quickhammered because he anticipated town would look off wagon at least a little bit. I mean I think it makes sense and would definitely be a strategy I would go along with as scum. I don't see why pps wouldn't put it into action.

This is what we call tunneling. Tie me to my scum partners if you think you really have a case on me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 08:25:17 pm
yeah, that pps theory doesn't fly at all. the only other two wagons around at that time were both confirmed townies: mcmc and dylan. The previous vote count to that had small wagons on eevee, another townie (IDPTG) and PPS himself. But those were all at 1 vote.

So yeah, that doesn't make sense. For PPS to be scum, both partners had to already be on the wagon. And he had to feel that he could take the pressure of doing a quick hammer on a townie with no immediate benefit to his team. So he could still have done it, but I don't see a reason for him to do it. I think scum generally needs to have reasons to do things.
In response to the bolded part, says who?

Because the only players who weren't on wagon are dead and town except for IDPTG (UB) and me (I know I am town). So if PPS is mafia his partners had to already be voting, at least from my perspective. If you disagree then that means you must think I am mafia.

Maybe that makes PPS more like to be mafia then? Cause if he is town that means all three mafia had to be on the wagon before him hammering. I guess that is still possible, just means it is more likely a specific strategy thought up during the night.

I see what you mean but I posed that as a general question. Not sure why I interpreted it the way I did. I mean I still think you're somewhat scummy so to me there's the possibility that you are the scum off wagon but it's also possible that two were already on and pps, being the third, quickhammered because he anticipated town would look off wagon at least a little bit. I mean I think it makes sense and would definitely be a strategy I would go along with as scum. I don't see why pps wouldn't put it into action.

This is what we call tunneling. Tie me to my scum partners if you think you really have a case on me.

Ok. Who are your partners?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 08:27:24 pm
@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?

No. I didn't think so.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 08:27:54 pm
@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?

No. I didn't think so.

Or rather I should say, that I didn't really have an opinion on whether he was or not.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 23, 2017, 08:29:07 pm
i think i know why you are asking

You're probably right. Do you agree?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 23, 2017, 08:30:32 pm
Do you expect me to be totally stubborn and unwilling to lynch someone who isn't my top scum read? Because that's... kinda how I acted in this game, thinking about it. Probably not the most pro-town play but I was pretty confident in my mcmc read.

I feel like my words are being twisted. I wanted others to vote for the players they thought were the scummiest (being stubborn about one player is rarely a really good move unless you are really, really sure). Instead some people were voting based off speculative categories rather than looking at scummy or not. I felt like that was a scum tactic and I felt like you were doing it more than the rest.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 08:35:34 pm
i think i know why you are asking
You're probably right. Do you agree?
i do. unless i'm secretly agreeing with the opposite of the thing. also consider ww (though i don't think he seemed especially PR either)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 08:59:01 pm
Do you expect me to be totally stubborn and unwilling to lynch someone who isn't my top scum read? Because that's... kinda how I acted in this game, thinking about it. Probably not the most pro-town play but I was pretty confident in my mcmc read.

I feel like my words are being twisted. I wanted others to vote for the players they thought were the scummiest (being stubborn about one player is rarely a really good move unless you are really, really sure). Instead some people were voting based off speculative categories rather than looking at scummy or not. I felt like that was a scum tactic and I felt like you were doing it more than the rest.

I mean I just felt compelled to do rereads but other than that I don't think I was any more committed than anyone else.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:20:38 pm
ww i'm just going to say is town, cool, done. i was at about 95% town on him before D3, just from having read his last uh 4 games (M90, M95, RMM40, ZM23). his approach to playing scum, in M90 & RMM40, was just to come up with a bunch of different townslippy/organic things and throw shade at people/converse without committing to anyone, whereas when he's town he is more testy, invested, and interested in lynching people. i think that he's been much more of the latter in this game, and i see no reason to believe he would specifically switch things up (considering he was super townread in M90, townread by all means except game state in RMM40, and got lynched D2 in M95). and also just by gamestate i would say he has an additional (er, multiplicative i guess) 95% chance of being town here (since he's confirmable by any scum flip other than rolecop and he has sown worry about switch which has no scum benefit really)
retroactively saying you read someone as 95% town already before after they've been semi-IC'd seems very scummy to me. i mean, my strongest townread all game was mcmc, but i was nowhere near 95% on it. if you were that sure, why weren't you beating that drum harder yesterday? i'm especially sceptical because i find WW perhaps the hardest person to read, just seems really hard to believe town could ever realistically be that sure with no pr information or even no strong wagon evidence to go from. i know people are generally bad with statistics, but in my head i for some reason have the idea of schadd having made bayesian posts somewhere on the forums, so this 95% seems very sketchy to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:21:13 pm
The Wine Merchant seemed pretty townie on Day 2.  But, it's the first time I played with him, and he could be good at looking like he's thinking like town.

I'm not completely writing him off as town, but he'd be bottom of my lynch list.
agree with this
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:22:42 pm
I want to go back onto Andrew personally. Since we are all apparently saying where we are.

Yeah, let's do that, it stalled for a reason, people.

Vote: Andrew

Right, let's do exactly what scum wants everyone to do. Obviously they didn't choose to kill mcmc at random. They did it so everyone could point to me afterwards and easily mislynch me, just like yesterday. If I was scum why the hell would I want to kill mcmc last night? Especially after all the scum reads mcmc was getting during twilight, I think an mcmc lynch today was probable.
super disagree with this. i think mcmc was one of the least likely to be lynched today, (and that scum killed him because of that?)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:33:07 pm
@Everyone- did mcmc seem like a PR D1?
typically PRs will be quiet D1, as they don't benefit as much from being townread. mcmc was very loud d1 in this game. sort of relevant, he was also really loud/active in M94 in a way that i could have pegged him scum for in M94 if i were still alive, and tried to point out D1 (he didn't claim D1 & claimed inventor later, but played super vt)


i think i know why you are asking
i think for most people, especially for a player of mcmc's caliber, it's just not possible to tell because they are going to mix it up. so really no idea, but if anything, i would assume special role (=pr or scum) -> more into the game, more activity. of course hindsight is 20/20, but being the role he was and being very active and doing his best makes a lot of sense, you want to draw the nightkill as the virgin.

unrelated: FoS at robz and whoever townread me last. i feel since no one is thinking i'm scum, that'd be where scum would want to go, with town's general consensus. it's true, but also a safe thigh to say.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:35:13 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM
robz is the kind of wifom. i would advice not trying against him, for real.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 23, 2017, 10:37:58 pm
unvote
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:38:57 pm
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM
robz is the kind of wifom. i would advice not trying against him, for real.
im serious, do not townread him for being too lurky (or vaguely scummy) to be scum "for a player of his caliber". he really has no shame with stuff like that. speaking from experience here. i think he would agree, i'm pretty sure mcmc would at least. he was there (oh the horror)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 10:41:06 pm

retroactively saying you read someone as 95% town already before after they've been semi-IC'd seems very scummy to me.
yeah, stop buddying me, it's shaking my unshakeable locktown obvtown conftown mod-confirmed neverlynch hard soul vca meta read on you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:48:39 pm
stop trying trying to buddy me to make me not scumread you! or something.

i mean, isn't what i said anti-buddying, raising suspicion on you?

to clarify, still think you are a swell fellow, but i'm hearing beeps from my scumdar.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:49:46 pm
oh totally misread that, my bad.

95% still seems excessive, point stands if a little less strong
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 10:50:38 pm
(clearly time i sleep though. puerto rican mojitos are good.)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 10:55:43 pm
i think i considered doing percentages yesterDay, or something like that, but i guess i don't see strong reason to believe that i thought that so strongly then (especially since my last townread list is now provably wrong, and i currently think twm is scum). and i didn't even intend that to cash in towncred, more to go through what's in my head and perhaps convince people is town (and uh i don't think trust me and doubt ww is an especially strong demographic but you know)


95% still seems excessive, point stands if a little less strong
not especially? eod2, 3 scum among 9 people, which means that each person has a 66% chance of being scum; i'm saying ww is about 1/7 as likely as the next guy to be scum. faust has to say:
That's the good thing about town reads; the chance tat they are correct are pretty high.




incidentally, i don't like that you're drunk but not sticking around or something
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 10:56:11 pm
like, say some good drunk stuff
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 11:10:20 pm
couldn't resist! not really drunk though, just drinks with dinner. and couple before. and after.

i thought your point was precisely that you thought so strongly yesterday? but i confirmedly always hedge and doubt myself too much, so what do i know. maybe i'm just jelly because i can't deviate from base probabilities by more than 10% ever when reading freaking WW. i'm glad the claims cam out  the way they did.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 11:18:03 pm
i'm still not close to 95% on anyone (but the claimants; think i'm 92% on ww now, 98% on idptg)

i think pps and whoever he is currently fighting with is likely to have scum between them, because pps has good reads but is concurrently always likely to be killed by scum for that very reason. so whenever he is suspecting someone late in the game there is a higher than average chance at least one is scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 23, 2017, 11:21:35 pm
i thought your point was precisely that you thought so strongly yesterday?
it was, but my intention wasn't "look at me, i'm so great for having been right about ww"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 11:26:27 pm
i thought your point was precisely that you thought so strongly yesterday?
it was, but my intention wasn't "look at me, i'm so great for having been right about ww"
things scum says!

or it's true. i need to sleep!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 23, 2017, 11:27:33 pm
vote: schadd though, got to go with my read.  i'll reread schadd tomorrow
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 23, 2017, 11:37:17 pm
I'm not convinced Schadd is town, but I don't think he's the right lynch for today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 24, 2017, 08:56:05 am
I'm not convinced Schadd is town, but I don't think he's the right lynch for today.

I'm down to lynch any of schadd, Andrew, and Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 24, 2017, 08:56:57 am
I mean, if the claims couldn't be trusted I'd be way more suspicious of WW and very null on IDP. But giving those two passes it looks like a very clear scum team to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 24, 2017, 09:40:24 am
Going back and doing a reread. I am mostly looking at people who pushed to lynch off wagon Day2 just for the sake of lynching off wagon, as that has a high probability of being a scum tactic.

Obviously I have mentioned Andrew doing this. Reading through I am seeing that Robz was another. It was about the only thing he said during the first 6 RL days of Day2.

Eevee was voting for Dylan, but he wasn't using the off-wagon thing as a justification. He was actually voting for scummy reasons.

To be fair mcmc (as town obviously) was also approaching that mindset, but was also much more open minded about lynching people who were actually scummy.

Contrast that with PPS, post 675, who steers completely clear of this and even to an extent calls it out.

So, I am looking more at Robz along with Andrew now.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 24, 2017, 09:42:03 am
To be fair, Andrew was an alternate lynch so would need to default to Dylan at the end.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 24, 2017, 09:58:17 am
To be fair, Andrew was an alternate lynch so would need to default to Dylan at the end.

Oh, I am not very critical of that. I am more critical of what he did earlier in day2.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 24, 2017, 09:59:42 am
And I shouldn't even say critical. I could kind of see the logic that mcmc/andrew/robz were using. I should instead say that I found it suspicious the way they were using it, especially now that it is known that there wasn't scum in the off wagon group of three.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 24, 2017, 11:03:50 am
robz i'm also going to say is just town, for reasons i said earlier, with more elaboration later (taking a test l0l)
so, like i said, robz is very reminiscent of the townie side of lurkers. additionally, i think that it's especially town given robz's context: he's had, like, really good results in the last bunch of games he's been scum (including one briefly concurrent with this game), and got lynched D2 in M94 where he was on the lurky side. additionally, if he decided to lurk to earn towncred given his scumplay, supposedly he's pulled that before, and he decided to do it again in a game with, uh, 6 other vets who have probably seen it back in the day (ww definitely has). that's a super risky and silly wifom play that just isn't the kind of thing that he does.


he's also just been doing his town stuff (actilurking when he's around, hedging, using impersonal reads for people. yes, you read that right).


robz gets the schaddbrand TownClearTM

This is a very accurate reading.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 24, 2017, 11:04:59 am
I think I'd rather resolve the PPS vs Andrew question later. I'm leaning toward voting for TWM or schadd.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 24, 2017, 11:52:46 am
Lot's of people saying they want to lynch me. But haven't seen any reasons why as of yet. I would appreciate more information at some point so I can know why, cause right now the only reason I seem to be aware of is the belief that a scum must have been off wagon Day1.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 24, 2017, 01:22:31 pm

andrew & robz on a team means andrew said
Lynch away.
to undecided townies with robz off wagon (and not really around, even) which could have meant a D2 scum lynch with only 1 scum on wagon and 1-2 town PRs + UB/gov unaccounted for
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 24, 2017, 01:23:16 pm
i will go over each person individually tonight/over the weekend
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: schadd on March 24, 2017, 01:26:48 pm
1-2 town PRs
or, wait. up to 4 letters of town PR unaccounted for. scum knows it's one of TT, T, 0T
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 24, 2017, 01:27:33 pm
Vote Count 3.2

AndrewisFTTW (2): Witherweaver, pingpongsam
schadd (1): Eevee


Not Voting (5): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, schadd, AndrewisFTTW

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 25, 2017, 10:29:41 am
Robz, pps, and Eevee find schadd scummy. What's the case on him? Is there one?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 25, 2017, 01:34:06 pm
Robz, pps, and Eevee find schadd scummy. What's the case on him? Is there one?

Too good to be true and vote record from memory. Wish I had time to construct a case. Maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 25, 2017, 10:37:51 pm
gonna do a big ol reread thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 26, 2017, 11:32:41 am
Robz, pps, and Eevee find schadd scummy. What's the case on him? Is there one?

Too good to be true and vote record from memory. Wish I had time to construct a case. Maybe tomorrow.

Yep.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 26, 2017, 06:44:50 pm
Glad to see I am not the only one totally slacking here. My work week is going to be pretty busy, so I am going to carve out some time tonight and will probably have a tentative vote down by the end of it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 26, 2017, 07:47:43 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 26, 2017, 07:55:11 pm
Also in every game after it's over I'm like, "I should have stuck to my guns" and I already did not yesterday so now I'm sticking to said guns.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 26, 2017, 08:06:43 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.

Concurring but do want to put in some actual reading.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 26, 2017, 08:13:16 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.

Concurring but do want to put in some actual reading.

You do that.

So should everyone.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 26, 2017, 08:25:31 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.

Concurring but do want to put in some actual reading.

Oh so tunneling is ok when it comes from the IC and when it's directed at someone you want to lynch. Great. I'm glad I got that all figured out.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 26, 2017, 08:31:17 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.

Concurring but do want to put in some actual reading.

Oh so tunneling is ok when it comes from the IC and when it's directed at someone you want to lynch. Great. I'm glad I got that all figured out.

I wasn't tunneling when I voted you yesterday and there was no quasi ic. I wasn't tunneling when I reopened the vote on you today because we should have lynched you yesterday but you and your scum buddies managed to get us onto another mislynch. I wasn't tunneling when I carefully unvoted when cautioned about potential scum quickhammers which we should have already seen orchestrated when it became clear today that you are definitely the right lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 26, 2017, 08:36:50 pm
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.

Concurring but do want to put in some actual reading.

Oh so tunneling is ok when it comes from the IC and when it's directed at someone you want to lynch. Great. I'm glad I got that all figured out.

I wasn't tunneling when I voted you yesterday and there was no quasi ic. I wasn't tunneling when I reopened the vote on you today because we should have lynched you yesterday but you and your scum buddies managed to get us onto another mislynch. I wasn't tunneling when I carefully unvoted when cautioned about potential scum quickhammers which we should have already seen orchestrated when it became clear today that you are definitely the right lynch.

I managed to get you into a mislynch? Just blame everything on me. Why not. Besides I'm not accusing you of tunneling, I'm saying WW is tunneling me and you find that perfectly fine but when I say I want to lynch you you try to discredit me by saying I'm tunneling. Granted, you don't want to be lynched. I get it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 26, 2017, 08:39:04 pm
Sorry you said "me and my scum buddies" so you're really blaming just me. Going off of memory I think the people that pushed Dylan's lynch were mcmc, TWM, and Robz. Though Robz didn't do much besides put down a vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 26, 2017, 08:39:29 pm
Damnit I meant NOT really blaming just me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 26, 2017, 08:44:49 pm
Didn't see a whole lot of anything necessarily new during my reread. I still lean toward Andrew.

One thing that did come up as I went through this (obviously with a bias toward Andrew, sorry-not sorry) was looking for potential partners.

As such I came back to my posts about his wagon Day2:

Players not voting for Andrew:

IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32, Robz888, mcmcsalot, schadd

Players that died or became ICs were not voting for Andrew. Although I guess mcmc did eventually vote for Andrew right?

Players that voted for Andrew:
AndrewisFTTW (4): The_Wine_Merchant, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Eevee

And I still don't really see a narrative for bussing yesterday. Today, maybe. But early yesterday, there just wasn't a reason. WW being quasi-IC helps as well and I just still don't see it for PPS and Eevee.

So that leaves me with, if Andrew is mafia then his most likely scum partners are Robz and schadd. Which, I guess wouldn't be tremendously out there? But last time I tried to play this game I got it wrong with Dylan. So I guess we just need to go with Andrew and then see what happens. If he is mafia, I think I would go toward Robz next? Robz had enough of the similar things pop-up with Andrew, but with less substance due to less voting.

PPE: And, yeah, Andrew's most recent posts still feel caught scum to me.

vote: Andrew

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 26, 2017, 09:07:36 pm
I mean yes I'm tumbling but I also let myself get talked away from the Lynch yesterday and here we are.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 26, 2017, 09:08:29 pm
Tunneling.  And funny that my phone finds capital Letters Lynch above the word lynch because I talk about David Lynch so much.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 26, 2017, 09:33:52 pm
Sorry, my girlfriend flew home and friends flew in, been staying in (with wifi) a lot less and going out (drinking) a lot more.

Vote: Andrew L-2! Basically agree with WW and TWM.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 26, 2017, 09:39:25 pm
Sorry, my girlfriend flew home and friends flew in, been staying in (with wifi) a lot less and going out (drinking) a lot more.

Vote: Andrew L-2! Basically agree with WW and TWM.

Actually think that is L-1. (4): PPS, WW, TWM, Eevee. Takes 5 vote lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 26, 2017, 09:53:19 pm
Ahh. Thanks for the vigilance.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 26, 2017, 09:54:22 pm
I mean yes I'm tumbling but I also let myself get talked away from the Lynch yesterday and here we are.

It's all good WW, I was tunneling mcmc pretty hard earlier. I was just commenting on pps's double standard.

So I guess we just need to go with Andrew and then see what happens. If he is mafia, I think I would go toward Robz next? Robz had enough of the similar things pop-up with Andrew, but with less substance due to less voting.

No. We don't need to "just" do anything and "see what happens". Why are we speculating so much and basing so much on gut at this stage in the game? We shouldn't just by lynching for information, and anyone who says that is scummy as hell by the way. We have a ton of information but we're all choosing not to look back at it, and scum is totally fine with that. We should be analyzing interactions and wagons and debating them. And the whole "we didn't lynch Andrew yesterday so we should lynch him today" is ridiculous. Just because I wasn't lynched yesterday doesn't magically prove I'm scum. But you all seem pretty determined to finish what you started yesterday. I just hope the new "information" you get from lynching a VT is worth it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 27, 2017, 01:18:00 am
Vote Count 3.3

AndrewisFTTW (3+1): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee


Not Voting (3+1): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, schadd, AndrewisFTTW

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 27, 2017, 09:53:21 am
So we just need to see if IDP joins the cause or one of scum hammers for cred. Be more interesting to see scum try to make an alternative wagon but the POE is pretty strong today.

I think Robz is most likely to hammer and schadd more likely to try a different case.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 27, 2017, 10:21:16 am
I mean yes I'm tumbling but I also let myself get talked away from the Lynch yesterday and here we are.

It's all good WW, I was tunneling mcmc pretty hard earlier. I was just commenting on pps's double standard.

So I guess we just need to go with Andrew and then see what happens. If he is mafia, I think I would go toward Robz next? Robz had enough of the similar things pop-up with Andrew, but with less substance due to less voting.

No. We don't need to "just" do anything and "see what happens".

You aren't understanding what I wrote there. And that is probably my fault as I wasn't clear. I think we need to lynch you because you are the scummiest and I think you have a pretty good chance of flipping scum. This isn't just a gut read for me.

What I am unsure about is who your partners might be. I would like to be more sure about that. So that is the see what happens part. Meaning, I am not going to try and find scum partners beyond simple speculation until we have a flip. And I am not going to let doubt about partners keep me from voting someone that I find legitimately scummy.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 27, 2017, 11:52:05 am
So we just need to see if IDP joins the cause or one of scum hammers for cred. Be more interesting to see scum try to make an alternative wagon but the POE is pretty strong today.

I think Robz is most likely to hammer and schadd more likely to try a different case.

So if Robz or schadd hammers they're automatically scum hammering for towncred? Well done! Excellent scumhunting!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 27, 2017, 11:57:57 am
Doing a reread of D1 before I start work. I'm working on a theory about the scum team. I'll try to have it by tonight.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 27, 2017, 11:59:10 am
So we just need to see if IDP joins the cause or one of scum hammers for cred. Be more interesting to see scum try to make an alternative wagon but the POE is pretty strong today.

I think Robz is most likely to hammer and schadd more likely to try a different case.

So if Robz or schadd hammers they're automatically scum hammering for towncred? Well done! Excellent scumhunting!

FWIW, I doubt scum will hammer you.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 27, 2017, 02:40:38 pm
So we just need to see if IDP joins the cause or one of scum hammers for cred. Be more interesting to see scum try to make an alternative wagon but the POE is pretty strong today.

I think Robz is most likely to hammer and schadd more likely to try a different case.

So if Robz or schadd hammers they're automatically scum hammering for towncred? Well done! Excellent scumhunting!

FWIW, I doubt scum will hammer you.

Why wouldn't scum hammer me? You realize that if you mislynch me and scum gets a NK tonight they win right? They just don't want to quickhammer, otherwise you might use your shot and town has another day to lynch scum. That's why it's so scummy how nonchalant pps is about this whole thing. Why put a whole lot of effort into this when town can mislynch for you? Just let town stumble into it by themselves. Iguess I might as well put my vote back on him.

Vote: pps

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 27, 2017, 04:34:15 pm
I know i'm partial to more pleading defenses, but andrew really doesnt sound town to me here. I feel he is expressing frustration at getting lynched, rather than desperation that town might lose because of it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 27, 2017, 06:08:05 pm
Gosh I wish I felt better about the Andrew lynch. Really think schadd or TWM is a better bet. But I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 27, 2017, 06:37:15 pm
Gosh I wish I felt better about the Andrew lynch. Really think schadd or TWM is a better bet. But I hope I'm wrong.

schadd might be. I certainly am not. But as I read through schadd, I tried to look for things that were scummy and didn't see anything stand out to me. I still haven't really figured out why people like you suspect him.

Frankly, you would easily be my second choice after Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 27, 2017, 08:00:22 pm
i'm going through my lynch pool and note the several most important posts to my read of them.


until then:
But as I read through schadd, I tried to look for things that were scummy and didn't see anything stand out to me.
that would make you, like, the first ever out of everyone that has played with me
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 27, 2017, 08:06:53 pm
until then:
But as I read through schadd, I tried to look for things that were scummy and didn't see anything stand out to me.
that would make you, like, the first ever out of everyone that has played with me

Yay! Unless I am wrong. Then Boo!

But really. I honestly don't understand what you are saying half the time. But that seems pretty consistent with when you were a mod. Seems more like your personality than anything alignment specific.

On the flipside is that I didn't see anything particularly townie from you either. But we are at a stage of the game where lynching for lack of townie content doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to lynch for scummy content.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 27, 2017, 09:22:41 pm
ok still rereading but i want idptg to say something snooty/authoritarian so we can say "who died and made you governor"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 27, 2017, 09:51:32 pm
incidentally, do people prefer quotes or post numbers with links?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 27, 2017, 09:59:04 pm
incidentally, do people prefer quotes or post numbers with links?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AD8x7JcXgDgxK5C6rwtMogMFyJvS7CvyEswMV5d5GXIzFns6JjHQ-fNnq9Z7p3AM3mQqVg=s65) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AD8x7JcXgDgxK5C6rwtMogMFyJvS7CvyEswMV5d5GXIzFns6JjHQ-fNnq9Z7p3AM3mQqVg=s65) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AD8x7JcXgDgxK5C6rwtMogMFyJvS7CvyEswMV5d5GXIzFns6JjHQ-fNnq9Z7p3AM3mQqVg=s65)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 27, 2017, 10:02:02 pm
robz2664
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 12:26:19 am
Initially, this started as a case against a scum team of {Robz, Andrew, WW} but it turned into "I'm speculating that WW is lying" which doesn't actually help us. Anyway.

The more I think about the massclaim, the less towny I think it was. Granted, this does involve information that wasn't publicly known until after the claim. Anyway, scum knows if there were (5 or 6) Ts, (3 or 4) Ts, or (2 or 1 or 0) Ts. We'd already flipped a 1-Shot Governor so we're guaranteed a roll of VVXXXX (or with Ws turning into Vs). After mcmc's flip, we were guaranteed a roll of VVPXXX (or with Ws). This means that there are at most 3 Ts that have been rolled. This is where it gets into speculation. I propose that scum knew that 3 Ts had been rolled due to their roles. With the two PRs revealed, everyone else had to be VT. This means that there's no one who could counterclaim a role.

This means that, if a massclaim occurs, town doesn't gain any ICs other than finding out who the Governor is; in other words, it doesn't help town. The Governor wasn't going to get lynched anyway and scum doesn't have a Roleblocker. Since no one can claim anything, scum is free to claim any PR that makes sense with the roll. This is where the Bodyguard comes in. Bodyguard is plausible since a roll of VVPPXX (or with Ws) gives the Virgin and Bodyguard and the Virgin had been revealed. A roll of VVPPTT (or with Ws) means that scum now has a Strongman. If the Strongman performs the NK on the Bodyguard target, the target dies and the Bodyguard doesn't. Therefore WW is free to say that he tried to protect mcmc; no one can say he didn't and he wouldn't necessarily be dead if he did.

What does this do for scum? It misleads town into thinking WW is a town PR; it makes him slightly more believable. So, after the claim, the only thing that's changed has been a useless IC (hi) and WW seems to have semi-IC status.

Why this scum team? Early in D3 they were the first three to suggest it. I don't know if the entire team would really pile on that fast, but it gave the illusion of consensus (at least to me) before more than half of the remaining players had voiced an opinion.

Also, I'm pretty sure the NK is going through tonight. Rolecopping mcmc N1 seems reasonable so all they had to do was activate the Switch N2 to kill him and bypass the effect.

A brief rundown of why those three (I'd really hoped to have more):
WW: convenient lie
Robz: all that lurking and he was the first to say there was scum off-wagon D1, which didn't sound like he was stating a theory as much as a fact
Andrew: other people think it and I don't know what to make of all of it. Might hammer. Not sure.


This is a lot of speculation and might be a bit too convoluted to be reasonable. Thoughts? I'm not sure I believe myself anymore.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 12:26:37 am
ok still rereading but i want idptg to say something snooty/authoritarian so we can say "who died and made you governor"

Joseph
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 08:18:38 am
I have had similar thoughts about WW's claimand posted them way earlier. You leave out the risk of him claiming if a 1-shot Ninja flips as that would mean too few letters for his PR (maybe he is the 1-shot Ninja so that isnt a risk at all?) And I think we can certainly talk about it now, especially you IDPTG as you are likely going to be the NK, I think it is important to get that stuff down. Butthe thing with WW is that he shouldn't be the lynch of choice today. If he is scum, he has two partners that I think we should try to find first and if he is town it forces mafia to make a NK decision. Do they kill him during the night or someone else?.

And after that we will have more info to make a better conclusion about him and his claim. For example if Andrew is strongman and on a subsequent night you are killed, we can ask why WW didn't protect you ( although I guess there is the switch so nothing is absolutely conclusive)

Or if there is a 2-shot ninja, and that player flips we will have WW confirmed as a PR

but it is still more than we have to go off right now

But I very much agree with your assessment of Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:38:33 am
pps: a traveller's guide


So I RVS'd using Fibonacci from the player list which none of you geniuses picked up on. Voting had no effect on TWM, he was notably absent, game stalling, so prodded him.

But I must be the bad guy because hey, look, PPS isn't doing all that stuff he usually does to catalyse a game. Never mind that we're he scum he would definitely be pushing the game much like Vote: mcmc is.
whomst was town.


Why are you voting eevee? I thought it was just to see if we could get something going. We got something better over here on mcmc, you should join us.
Is eevee dumb enough to defend his partner? Does scum!eevee defend a wagon deep townie?

Eevee doesn't look like scum today.
part 1 of a series called partnery eevee talk

Vote: Joseph
:((((((((


It's not like I started out of the blue on this game. This is at least 4 games in the making. It's been fleshed out quite a bit more in the previous games so I'm not feeling overly compulsed to make the case all over again. Basically, If I'm in the game then there ought not be willy nilly wagon run-ups because there is a hammer waiting. The first couple of times I tried this I announced intent to hammer at like L-2 or L-3 or even called a player that was obviously about to get runup and stated I'd hammer if he went L-1. In those games it sure seemed a towny enough thing to do. I suppose just doing it unannounced is quite a bit less towny but the meta is the same and the reasons too.
still, still, still, still think this sucks.
 -the endgame of this is that people just claim at l-2 when you're there.
 -sure, you've done fun hammery stuff in previous games. this was different, and not fun. the example i remember is M87 (looked at M89 & M93 and couldn't find anything) wherein pps at one point decided "these wagons are all smoke and mirrors, i'm just hammering the next thing to get to l-1." i think that in general that's a net negative for town, but there's arguments to be made: it was a point of discussion (and it more or less baited me into tunneling the whole game), and it slightly changes the climate of the game to something people aren't used to. this game didn't do either of these things, he didn't give any reason specific to this game, and it had no effect on this game after D1.
 -it absolves pps of having to give any actual read of joseph.


So the good news is we start tomorrow with only one dead townsperson.
didn't you, like, think mcmc was scum? and we were rather close to lynching him?


eevee definitely fought the mcmc wagon. I dunno if eevee partners that hard. I know I sure as hell do not, like ever, never, ever, not even a little bit sometimes. In fact, I'm such an anti partner that my scumpartnertell is the one guy I'm just not talking about or interacting with but still willing to vote. This is so much the case that I really never consider that other players would do such a thing.
The thing is Eevee did a few things I just don't think scum!eevee does. I commented on those things at the time. I may have biased my observations around the idea that mcmc was assumed scum, though.
partnery stuff p2. note that he never just calls eevee town.


I may vote dylan. schadd and I have been way more buddy buddy than eevee and I. Also the conclusions dylan made are that if I am town, he wants to lynch andrew or pps which is basically what I had said about how andrew and pps moved from me to Joseph scummily. He makes no conclusion about what me being town says about eevee. Then he says if I'm scum eevee is certainly scum, which I don't know how he has gotten to. Then he ends with a scummy if we're going to look off wagon twm is the scummy one but doesn't give any reasons whatso ever as to why.

All he is doing is setting up people he wants to lynch with almost no reasons other than mcmc and eevee are buddying eachother.

Also I want to clarify I really think his explaination for why andrew and pps are people he would look to if I were town is indicative of him being scum. After a complete reread it's a really general reasoning that is setting up where he can pivot when I flip town. He's not even thinking about what eevee flipping town would mean which is wierd since it's an eevee/me interaction not just me. It's just very "I've made one read I'm basing all my other reads on so I can change them" I do this as scum lots.

Agree with all this.
up until this point it's kind of ambiguous whether he scumreads mcmc (though later he hard townreads mcmc and says that he had been all of d2). he will later defend the shit out of dylan post-hammer and claim the wagon was scum driven:
Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.


I'm not convinced Schadd is town, but I don't think he's the right lynch for today.

I'm down to lynch any of schadd, Andrew, and Robz.
and here we are, at mylo (or close to it), where he sheeps ww's team call, with little unhedged reason, no sense of priority, in spite of earlier saying robz and i don't look like partners. no townreads issued on the other folks in this game.


incidentally, when i was looking at his other games to see how much the hammer thing was nonsense, i think i found a good towntell for him: when he's town, he's really engaged, and i can sense that he's trying to figure things out. this game has felt much more like he's rhetorically stumbling into and out of reads and placing himself at different parts of arguments.


he's my ideal lynch today, vote: pps. i have a bit more to say about the uh other people (i think eevee reciprocates a lot of the hedgy partnery stuff) but i've been at this for a while.


i would like to hear more from everyone about whomst'd they think is town and stuff. my read on robz predicated on the idea that he would, like, deliver, and at some point be able to have better-reasoned reads to share, but that hasn't happened all that much (he was content to drop "schadd or twm" and peace out, which is definitely the scummier side of lurking. i still think that he's town, especially after the re-read, but c'mon)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 06:43:42 pm
Main thing I don't like from the above^. Is it just coincidence that the person that schadd ends up voting here is the other person with a vote on them?

schadd you said you had reads on everyone else, but why is the only one you have posted (and voted, obviously) on pps the one other guy with a vote on him?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 07:29:24 pm
Gosh I wish I felt better about the Andrew lynch. Really think schadd or TWM is a better bet. But I hope I'm wrong.

I'm interested in why Robz hasn't backed any of this up with a vote. Especially since we have less than 24 hours until the deadline.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 07:48:32 pm
I'mma gonna go ahead and request some prods:

Please prod Robz. Please prod Eevee. Please prod PPS. Please prod WW. Please prod Andrew

To be fair each of these players have posted within the last 48 hours. And I have certainly gone longer without posting, but we are at a point where not posting for 24 just isn't a good idea.

Only schadd, myself and IDPTG have posted in the last 24 hours.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 07:54:18 pm
Vote Count 3.3

AndrewisFTTW (3+1): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee


Not Voting (3+1): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888, schadd, AndrewisFTTW

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT.


I'm trying to understand this.

If Andrew is town and not every scum is on the wagon already, then either there won't be a NK tonight or scum is certain that I'll use my shot to save Andrew. I don't see a reason for why they wouldn't hammer (especially now that I don't think anyone would see it as a quickhammer) to get it to N3 when the NK is guaranteed (either Strongman or no Bodyguard).

If Andrew is town and every scum is on wagon, then we probably shouldn't lynch him and we've found the scum team (+1 townie).

If Andrew is scum, then either scum is bussing or schadd and Robz are his partners and all of town is on wagon. If there's going to be a NK tonight, I don't see why scum would waste a day bussing. My understanding of bussing is that you do it because you stand to gain much more if it gives you towncred than you would lose if it doesn't, not just because you can. Considering this would be LyLo if there's a NK, I don't see how it would help scum.

Therefore, I think we can assume there is no NK tonight or we found the scum team or both.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 08:03:12 pm
Therefore, I think we can assume there is no NK tonight or we found the scum team or both.

But what do we do with that assumption? Is it actionable?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 28, 2017, 08:12:32 pm
I've been out of town to meet family for a 1 year old birthday party. Generally my vacations are when I do the most mafia but this particular one actually should have been posted in the VLA thread in retrospect.

I'm going to be covered up at work Wednesday and Thursday. If we flip Andrew and he is scum then I am good to get back in the game in a big way about Friday. If we flip me or if Andrew is town we're probably toast anyhow.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 28, 2017, 08:22:11 pm
I'm here. I don't have much to say that I haven't said already other than I'm glad someone concurs with my scum read on pps. TWM I don't think your suggestion that schadd is only voting for pps because he's the only other person with a vote on him holds any water. I'm surprised more people don't find him scummy. I know you have your reasons for voting me but I think pps and maybe a couple others are only on my wagon today because I wasn't lynched yesterday, which I already said. See? I'm repeating myself!

The question for IDP is what do you think? Do you really think I'm scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 08:26:58 pm
TWM I don't think your suggestion that schadd is only voting for pps because he's the only other person with a vote on him holds any water.

If schadd had produced his reads on everyone like he said he would, I would agree. Then I would have more confidence that he did a full read and organically came to the conclusion of pps being scummy. But when he dropped a read of pps in isolation and also votes for him, I have to wonder (maybe incorrectly) if it was produced with a purpose: to get an alternate wagon going on pps.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 08:28:42 pm
And to be fair to schadd, I am not one to demand that someone produce a whole bunch of reads on anyone. That is a lot of time that not everyone has to commit. But schadd was talking up big reads on everyone in multiple posts. So that is where the expectation comes from.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Eevee on March 28, 2017, 08:48:07 pm
I like lynching andrew over pps. If he was town, I think scum would have probably hammered him already.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 28, 2017, 08:49:35 pm
I still prefer Andrew.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 09:09:57 pm
the way i do rereads is kind of exhausting, and spending too much time on it in one sitting has worked out poorly in the past. after i typed up the pps one i felt like not doing it anymore and i haven't had a moment until now (i'm eating dinner atm but should afterward be able to post the other ones rather quickly, since i now have all the posts & some of the arguments noted)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 09:59:12 pm
pps addendum: a little ditty
I am strongly reading town on mcmc practically all of D2.
[...]
Mcmc made points about Andrew I silently concurred with. So, in some sense I am sheeeping him. That Andrew supposedly reads scum in mcmc to the point of voting him means that Andrew must be better at sensing the scum in the best scum performance ever and my ego will not support that so it requires me to categorize him as strictly scum.
Congratulations, scum. I'll have to figure out where they are but nice job getting a mislynch when one of your own [andrew] was on the block. Considering the hour it's like they got back to back nights.

Robz and mcmc looks scummiest to me atm but a reread is definitely in order.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:04:30 pm

eevee: a thing

Okay, I feel I understood the meaning of maybe 10% of what's been posted previously here, and even that 10% is somewhat confusing because it's Ash's semi-claim, which is a very interesting but also difficult piece to the puzzle. Glad we have one on the board already, I feel it's a much better start than pure RVS with no substance that can stall for days in worst cases.

It's so fun to be playing with ash again!

As for the claim, I don't know, my natural first reaction is to buy it until evidence to the contrary surfaces, but also be on the lookout for such evidence. There is always just one UB, so if ash is scum, he is basically saying he is willing to trade 1:1 with the backup (at best), which just seems like a terrible deal for scum. UB is definitely a strong role, but it won't have any utility until someone with a PR goes down (knock on wood), and even after he could inherit something completely useless (if the role was 1-shot and the shot is already used up), so it's not like game-changingly strong, or even close to that.

It seems a little suicidal for ash to do this as town but not the UB, as I would assume most people as the real UB would simply counterclaim ash immediately, putting town in a horrible situation for no gain whatsoever (as far as I can tell, anyways). I got to believe ash would realize this, and probably wouldn't  want to proceed with such a plan.

So, as I don't think ash would do this as town if he wasn't the UB, I think if there is another UB out there, they should claim because ash is then likely just scum with a crazy vision, which would seem extremely far-fetched, but ash if anyone is willing to go down for his team if he feels its the best course of action.

But, probably, ash is just the UB, and wanted to get us going with a claim. Which seems fine to me, having a IC is pretty fun, and this comes with potential additional powers if they make it to later in the game.
i mean. i don't think i fully registered this at the time, but this is just overt town PR hunting. if ash was UB and wanted to claim UB, he would have claimed UB. eevee also suggests that idptg should have counterclaimed, which would have been really bad. and in talking about it to this extent, he more or less softclaimed not-UB, which is why you don't do that.


also note that he pretty ardently thought ash was the UB, and ash got nightkilled.


Vote: Eevee

Maybe if I start voting for people, it'll start a wagon.
This is a great idea.

Vote: Joseph
eevee would later call this an RVS vote, though that's a bit ambiguous. and late for an RVS vote.


Vote: Joseph

Reread him, I could definitely see a scum narrative in his voting history (first voted for ashersky, when the tide turned against lynching ash, changed his position to "town because of his antics). Nothing really struck to me as towny in his posting either, hard to put a finger on it but I don't get the impression he is trying to figure things out, more that he wants a lynch through that isn't him. This claim question strengthens that impression, I think town is more concerned with concealing their role because it's better for town regardless of your role, whereas scum might be more anxious to claim because they think it might help get them out of hot water. Basically, for town one can think "well, if I die, it might actually help us win if it happens in the right way", whereas scum MUST avoid getting lynched day 1, because if they go down their team is in very big trouble.


L-2, if I do my math right.
Yeah, it looked to me like scum explaining their way onto a mislynch.
plus, have you, like, played with joseph before?


Woah lots of stuff happened. I don't like the hammer from pps with zero announcement. I guess I don't find it overly scummy but I don't like it.

Is there any way Joseph is Lying so I don't have to figure out the setup implications of what is going on and we just hit scum?

Joseph is IC, no way around it.
Slight scum points for mcmc for trying to suggest Joseph is not an IC. I don't think this applies to such an experienced player like mcmc, but in general I think it's scum's first instinct to try to discredit any IC that is arising.
..
That Joseph went poof after supposedly resurrecting himself immediately after the lynch looks super duper fishy to me. I mean, when I am scum I troll the twilight for the lulz, but most do exactly what he just did.
and he made the assertion without even, like, looking for himself whether joseph was an IC


but this proclaiming your excellence I think gives scum more of a mandate to make bold moves later, as you quote back to this post showing how good you are.
...he said, about someone other than pps, in a game with pps in it. bold moves... oh, you mean, like, quickhammering d1?


Ok. I at least know what happened now. I see little incentive to keep posting reads and stuff here for town. I feel like any further information we have can be saved til Day2 without letting mafia benefit from it going into the night.

I think the more OMGUS we give to mafia going into night the better.
I feel this is veryyy scummy. For town, the risk of unnecessarily giving mafia information should be far outweighed by the worry of dying in the night and never getting to say your piece, right? Like, aren't you worried that your scarce contributions might trigger a trigger-happy vig, even if you think scum would likely go for someone who has been more active?

It holds especially true to you, as you haven't had a chance to say anything all day! A penny for your thoughts, man. Better give them while you can, you never know. If you have insights that might be that relevant to scum, town is very interested in hearing them as well.
no followup on this


For the record,  it probably seems I'm way more certain about mcmc than I actually am, I could see him being scum. It feels redundant to write "it's still only day 2 and any of these reads could change completely, especially with pr information", but of course things could change still.
live and die by the hedge


Andrew, if you flip town, we'll take another look at your mcmc posts.
woof.
this implies more that andrew is town if eevee is scum than that eevee is scum (though i do believe the latter)


98% on idptg
but, no. think about it. if idptg is fakeclaiming, the real one steps in (and for some reason has taken a very long time to do so, in maybe mylo) and counterclaims. either we lynch scum, or we lynch UB. oh, except UB has that one governor thing from a while ago. so that doesn't work out very well, whoops.


he hasn't given out any townreads today; the best he did was agreeing with ww's moderately-hedged townread of TWM.


eevee's interactions with pps really make them look like, at the very least, the same alignment. they mutually indirectly/sketchily townread each other for kind of a while that isn't at all characteristic of the pockety/buddy-y/manipulative stuff that happens in scum on town. in theory they could just be town, but that would (fmpov) require a lot of other much more difficult assumptions (robz scum, partnered with andrew (which i talked about, though people seem to think it's fine) and TWM (l0l) or ww scum, partnered with at least one of the people whomst's'f'e is hard pushing the lynch)


pps, to me, looks narrowly more scummy in isolation, but i think the two have very similar chances of flipping red (i.e., if i'm not totally off base)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 11:10:47 pm
wtf is fmpov and whomst's'f'e
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:24:45 pm
from my point of view; of whomst's he
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 11:25:52 pm
wtf is fmpov and whomst's'f'e

Whomst is a meme btw
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:27:21 pm
good meme
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 28, 2017, 11:38:07 pm
good meme

I mean...

Anyway, I agree with you on Eevee. I really didn't like the UB/PR fishing; ash kinda claiming my role was weird enough without people telling me to claim (although most people said not to).

Therefore, I think we can assume there is no NK tonight or we found the scum team or both.

But what do we do with that assumption? Is it actionable?

I think so. I'm working on it. I think the problem is that I'm focusing too much on logic and not enough on reads. People aren't always rational and acting irrationally seems valuable in this game. Even if people are being rational, it's people so opinions matter and people can disagree about the rational course of action and not be wrong.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:45:59 pm
twm: a twemoir


based purely off of memory and then going back to the list of players, I am leaning toward one of the following: ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash?

So I guess those are people I should look at more specifically
looks like this is 5 townies, which kinda stinx. but d1 reads being way wrong is also a very town-able thing


Votes speak louder than hedges.

Agreed.

The time has come. Vote: Andrew

was that the big reveal?
paying attention, which is neat


Plus you the scummy, scum man. Scum diddity scum face. Wubba lubba dub dub!
Free wine and rick and morty references? I like this guy!

I just got eevee buddied for the first time! I should get some sort of badge to commemorate!
how u know what that is


and uh that is the end of my notes for twm. there were a few that i had where'st'upon he voted townsfolk but so, so many people did that. i do still, like, kinda think he's town, but i think he makes a lot more sense as the partner of eevee & pps than andrew (see: the next, exciting installment!) and my reason for townreading him (less glued to the game) potentially has other explanations than him being town (he knows the forum better, he had good results in m91 but narrowly so & people currently in this game are familiar with him). i don't think i can read him either way, and don't especially feel a drive to lynch/not lynch him today.


robz correctly pegged him in M91 (iirc only in the speccy) but i haven't seen much (anything? nothing that i remember) to convince he's still right this game
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 11:51:32 pm
good meme

I mean...

Anyway, I agree with you on Eevee. I really didn't like the UB/PR fishing; ash kinda claiming my role was weird enough without people telling me to claim (although most people said not to).

Therefore, I think we can assume there is no NK tonight or we found the scum team or both.

But what do we do with that assumption? Is it actionable?

I think so. I'm working on it. I think the problem is that I'm focusing too much on logic and not enough on reads. People aren't always rational and acting irrationally seems valuable in this game. Even if people are being rational, it's people so opinions matter and people can disagree about the rational course of action and not be wrong.

Ok. I guess the question is: do you want to lynch Andrew? Cause if you don't and if you are going to use your governor power should we lynch elsewhere while you are still around? I guess having a no kill isn't the worst thing in the world, but honestly and with all due respect to you and your reads as the UB I think that even if you use your power we will still just lynch Andrew tomorrow anyways (PPS, WW and myself and eevee are all pretty sold on that front I think) unless something dramatic happens as at least I trust my reads more than yours, even if yours are from an "honest" position as I know more about the game state than you do.

So........ Yeah. Ball is kinda in your court and while that sucks from your perspective that is just kinda how the game is designed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 28, 2017, 11:53:00 pm
wtf is fmpov and whomst's'f'e

Whomst is a meme btw

I'll look it up.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 28, 2017, 11:59:08 pm
interlude


at some point (kind of a while ago) in this third day i Thought Two Thoughts.


-the fact that nobody is pushing an informativity lynch means that virgin wasn't switched
-the fact that ww isn't gunning hard for any particular lynch means that he's definitely 800% town


and then powie
I really do not want to lynch anyone but Andrew today.  Give the interactions and wagon from yesterday, a scum!Andrew Lynch has a lot of benefit for finding partners.  The upside is big if I'm right.


so the point is, i would (at baseline) feel weird about just sheeping him here. like, claiming is still dumb if scum and makes the scumteam completely crumble with 2/3 red lynches, and i don't think one can be certain enough about that to merit claiming something for a marginal advantage in just winning immediately. but one way or another, i would like to know specifically what ww would he would infer from a scumflip from andrew, if for no other reason than he's probably getting nightkilled.


hey, robz, it's opposite day. shut the fuck up
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 29, 2017, 12:06:15 am
oh incidentally
Main thing I don't like from the above^. Is it just coincidence that the person that schadd ends up voting here is the other person with a vote on them?

schadd you said you had reads on everyone else, but why is the only one you have posted (and voted, obviously) on pps the one other guy with a vote on him?
pps was my strongest townread. you can read the thing. what do you expect me to say? "i decided to post the pps one first because i desperately want to lynch someone other than my partner, andrew, and so i decided to only post the case on the guy that my dear partner, andrew, was voting"


there's more context now, and the logical progression &c. but, like, what's my ulterior motive there, and why would asking that question bring out my ulterior motive?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 29, 2017, 12:31:00 am
I think I'm leaning towards the Andrew lynch at this point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 01:07:40 am
Vote Count 3.3+1

AndrewisFTTW (3+1): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee
pingpongsam (2): AndrewisFTTW, schadd

Not Voting (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Robz888

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends Wednesday, Mar 21+8 at 11 am FT. This is in 8+2 hours.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 01:09:39 am
I'mma gonna go ahead and request some prods:

Please prod Robz. Please prod Eevee. Please prod PPS. Please prod WW. Please prod Andrew

To be fair each of these players have posted within the last 48 hours. And I have certainly gone longer without posting, but we are at a point where not posting for 24 just isn't a good idea.

Only schadd, myself and IDPTG have posted in the last 24 hours.

Robz is prodded
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 29, 2017, 01:10:15 am
I really hope this works out.

vote: Andrew
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 01:12:25 am
Vote Count 3.final

AndrewisFTTW (5): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame
pingpongsam (2): AndrewisFTTW, schadd

Not Voting (1): Robz888

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 05:16:39 am
Note: Due to some circumstances, Twilight ends at 11.45 am FT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 29, 2017, 06:44:23 am
I feel certain schadd was scum trying to figure out how to save his partner, Andrew. He wanted to uglify PPS and Eevee by appealing to WW and TWM.

If Andrew somehow flips town I'm basically wrong about everything, though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Robz888 on March 29, 2017, 09:00:08 am
Prod acknowledged. Sorry, really vla right now
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 29, 2017, 09:28:06 am
I know I've been the de facto lynch since today started and the deadline was somewhat early today and clearly scum was crazy stubborn about my lynch and about pressuring you to hammer (you just got played IDP), and in the end it's all part of the game but in general please don't lynch in the middle of the night while the person is sleeping. It's pretty damn rude.

I really hope this works out.

vote: Andrew

Oh it's working out, for scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 29, 2017, 09:41:25 am
was typing the andrew thing then did something else & fell asleep


pps was my strongest townread.
probably apparent, but *scumread


I feel certain schadd was scum trying to figure out how to save his partner, Andrew. He wanted to uglify PPS and Eevee by appealing to WW and TWM.

If Andrew somehow flips town I'm basically wrong about everything, though.
so you do think eevee and twm are town today, great. glad somebody finally managed to fucking fish that out of you


i would like to know specifically what ww would he would infer from a scumflip from andrew, if for no other reason than he's probably getting nightkilled.
i would have liked him to be able to answer this today
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 29, 2017, 09:52:23 am
You're wasting your time schadd. They don't care about analysis. Scum has WW and IDP in the palm of their hands.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 29, 2017, 09:57:59 am
i mean if virgin works out then it's not like we're in bad shape
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 29, 2017, 10:07:16 am
i mean if virgin works out then it's not like we're in bad shape

And if it doesn't the game is over.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 29, 2017, 10:11:50 am
yes thank you cool
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 29, 2017, 10:17:50 am
yes thank you cool

And if it doesn't the game is over.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on March 29, 2017, 10:21:45 am
over... over... over...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on March 29, 2017, 10:34:56 am
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/kKdgdeuO2M08M/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 11:48:03 am
Thread Locked
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 29, 2017, 11:50:19 am
AndrewFTTW has been lynched! He was 2, the Mafia Rolecop!

Night 3 starts.
Please submit all night actions within 34+13+1 hours. Day 3 will start on Friday, March 34-3st at 13-1pm forum time.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Night 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 31, 2017, 12:02:25 pm
IDontPlayThisGame was killed during the night! He was 86267571272, the Town 1-shot Governor!

Day 3+1 starts now and ends Friday, Apr 8-1 at 13-2 am FT. Thread unlocked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on March 31, 2017, 12:05:03 pm
Vote Count 3+1.0


Not Voting (5+1): Robz888, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee, schadd

With 5+1 alive it takes 3+1 to lynch.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 12:05:15 pm
I guarded IDontPlayThisGame last night, for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 12:06:09 pm
Need to reread.  Preliminary suspicion is {Eevee, Robz, Schadd}.  Not really writing off anyone though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 12:06:24 pm
Also you guys should have listened to me Day 2.  Neener neener neener.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 12:08:14 pm
Well, lynching scum should be significantly easier now that we got one.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 12:29:46 pm
Need to reread.  Preliminary suspicion is {Eevee, Robz, Schadd}.  Not really writing off anyone though.

I'm with you on Robz and Schadd. I think Andrew was kind of overplaying his hand to try and paint WW as lying about his role. I think it's fantastic suspicion if they got an alternate mislynch but otherwise I can't see him bussing like that. The interchange between Andrew and Schadd at the end of yesterday was definitely a scum partner adieu. Eevee has seemed more and more town as the game has progressed. I'm putting him at the top of my reread list though since I am inclined to give him a pass.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 31, 2017, 01:41:44 pm
Hey guys! Good job y'all pushed that Andrew lynch through. If I were you, I would be pretty much auto-lynching me here, I am look objectively scummy. All I can say in my defense is that scum!Robz, despite being VERRRRRRRY busy in real life, would not have checked out of this game so much, and he absolutely would not have taken an "Against, but MEH" position on scum partner Andrew. I have to fight it, or I have to bus for survival.

Yes, yes, there's a lot of WIFOM involved here. And I would not blame you for saying bullshit and lynching me.

Anyway, I think schadd has to be one the scums. Pretty certain.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 02:34:06 pm
howdy you fine folks
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 31, 2017, 02:46:24 pm
Is WW confirmed town now? That will make life easier.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 02:48:42 pm
not by setup, no. but he did confirm himself when he said "neener neener neener" just now
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 31, 2017, 02:49:45 pm
Oh. I guess he isn't still quite totally confirmed.

Quote
TTTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon
TTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***

We could be in either of these right? But given how yesterday and Day2 went down (yes you were right WW, more wine for you!) I feel ok placing him way over on the far side of the town line.

I am kinda excited that today started on a weekend, so I can actually play without needing to play catch-up all week long.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 02:56:36 pm
I should be considered confirmed town. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 02:58:15 pm
ww, who would you want me to vote?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:00:24 pm
With an even number of players, I think we want to lynch scum today (I would say Robz or schadd, PPS and TWM both seem towny to me), and then no lynch at 4 to get to a three person lylo (no downside to no lynching at that point).

Not sure whom I prefer between Robz and schadd (both scum, could it be?), the wifom argument Robz is making is somewhat convincing to me, but Robz has been fooling people with those for so long.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:01:05 pm
didn't you, like, drunkly say that wifom is his thing
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:01:31 pm
I should be considered confirmed town.
To me, at least to the extent that I'd be okay with losing in case you somehow were scum at this point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:01:37 pm
didn't you, like, drunkly say that wifom is his thing
oo, pagetop. this was in response to
With an even number of players, I think we want to lynch scum today (I would say Robz or schadd, PPS and TWM both seem towny to me), and then no lynch at 4 to get to a three person lylo (no downside to no lynching at that point).

Not sure whom I prefer between Robz and schadd (both scum, could it be?), the wifom argument Robz is making is somewhat convincing to me, but Robz has been fooling people with those for so long.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:02:01 pm
didn't you, like, drunkly say that wifom is his thing
Yeah, it totally is.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:02:57 pm
I mean that that argument would be much stronger coming from anyone but robz, who has done things like super lurk and succesfully convince people he couldnt be scum because he would pay more attention if he was scum, as scum.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:05:24 pm
ww, who would you want me to vote?

Your partner!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:09:19 pm
I mean that that argument would be much stronger coming from anyone but robz, who has done things like super lurk and succesfully convince people he couldnt be scum because he would pay more attention if he was scum, as scum.
my thinking isn't as much that he wouldn't do it, but that he wouldn't do it given recent success that he's had


ww, who would you want me to vote?
Your partner!
i'm really not in the mood for this at this point in the game
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 03:12:20 pm
howdy you fine folks

You wanna go ahead and tell us your plan for how to smokescreen the fact that you are on everyone's list as likely scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 03:13:28 pm
I should be considered confirmed town.
To me, at least to the extent that I'd be okay with losing in case you somehow were scum at this point.

I would not go that far but I will say he's not in the lynch pool today. There's one more scum to find and it shan't be WW today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 31, 2017, 03:15:52 pm
howdy you fine folks

You wanna go ahead and tell us your plan for how to smokescreen the fact that you are on everyone's list as likely scum?

I'll be honest here, I too am leaning toward schadd. But, I am just a little bit wary about this. Maybe the plan is for shadd's partner to do heavy bussing right out of the gate to try and salvage the game, but otherwise who is schadd's partner if everyone is willing to bus him?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:18:51 pm
howdy you fine folks

You wanna go ahead and tell us your plan for how to smokescreen the fact that you are on everyone's list as likely scum?
why would i want to smokescreen that?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:20:17 pm
howdy you fine folks

You wanna go ahead and tell us your plan for how to smokescreen the fact that you are on everyone's list as likely scum?
Votes speaker louder than words. I could see scum being in panic mode almost. Feels we have a pretty good chance of PoE'ing right today at least.

I'll be honest here, I too am leaning toward schadd. But, I am just a little bit wary about this. Maybe the plan is for shadd's partner to do heavy bussing right out of the gate to try and salvage the game, but otherwise who is schadd's partner if everyone is willing to bus him?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:20:39 pm
Messed that up.

Votes speaker louder than words. I could see scum being in panic mode almost. Feels we have a pretty good chance of PoE'ing right today at least.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:21:32 pm
Reread Robz. He does not look towny at all. I think the "if I were you I would lynch me for sure" is a signature scum robz move too.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:24:10 pm
I don't have time to read right now, but the end of Day 2 should be pretty telling.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:25:05 pm
can pps, robz, eevee vote me? would like to hammertest ww & twm
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:28:16 pm
can pps, robz, eevee vote me? would like to hammertest ww & twm

Why do you think that would tell anything?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:29:03 pm
Oh, we're in MYLO I guess.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 03:29:43 pm
it wouldn't really tell you guys anything
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 03:47:40 pm
A) I'm not casting a vote until I reread Eevee, schadd, then Robz.

B) I'm not very inclined to do anything my top scum read suggests, today. My read may change but it seems highly unlikely.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:48:28 pm
A) I'm not casting a vote until I reread Eevee, schadd, then Robz.

B) I'm not very inclined to do anything my top scum read suggests, today. My read may change but it seems highly unlikely.

Well if he's scum there's certainly very little risk in voting him.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on March 31, 2017, 03:49:23 pm
I'm not 100% convinced of The Wine Merchant, though, so I don't really want to try that out.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 03:57:34 pm
can pps, robz, eevee vote me? would like to hammertest ww & twm
I'm confused.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:00:55 pm
if either of ww and twm are scum in that scenario, they hammer
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:05:17 pm
Oh I see. Why though?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:12:13 pm
speed things up in the event that neither of them are scum (i think that if either of them are, this game is super lost, maybe unless it's robz/twm somehow)


plus i can look towny by being super confident who the scums are and not giving any inkling as to how these thought processes come about, which is how pps has been getting a pass
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:14:27 pm

in sum,
I'm a bad dirty townie please vote for me
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:18:07 pm
I don't like that. If it's Robz/TWM, that'd be teeeeerrible, and that's really a reasonable combination still.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:20:20 pm
if robz flipped red who would you go after?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:25:48 pm
I mean, most likely you, but say you really championed Robz's lynch and TWM tried to deflect away from it to someone else and then he flipped red, maybe TMW? Things are going to happen before LYLO, and opinions might change accordingly.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:28:34 pm
hrm
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:28:53 pm
To me it's three pretty clear tiers

WW looks extremely townie, would be very surprised if he was scum (MVP chants)

PPS and TMW look solidly townie, but it wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world if one of them was scum

Robz/schaddd look quite scummy, would be super shocked if there wasn't at least one scum, and both being scum would totally make sense too.


This latest from schadd looks somewhat towny to me, but I would expect both robz (who even said it earlier) and schadd as scum to expect being in trouble about their stance on Andrew, so possibly there were schemes planned in the night to distract from that.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 31, 2017, 04:34:55 pm
What I don't get is schadd's apparently huge townread on me. I mean, I do think I look townie. But I wouldn't put myself up on the same pedestal as WW. Seems like a weird thing to do both ways from schadd's point of view.

If he is town he should at least be considering me as mafia, right? If he is mafia, what value does he get out of eliminating me from his mislynch pool?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 31, 2017, 04:35:25 pm
Although I guess Eevee's point about being weird and distracting might have some validity
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:40:15 pm
it's not as much that i think you're town (though i rather do), moreso i think i will have a very hard time not getting lynched if any two of robz, eevee, pps are town


atm i am looking further unto eevee
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:42:36 pm
here to answer any inquiries you may have
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:43:28 pm
oh, howdy. you prefer town, right? why's that
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 04:44:27 pm
also if you're town, try to emotionally manipulate me into townreading you, but if you're scum, don't
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 04:57:50 pm
oh, howdy. you prefer town, right? why's that
i like the aspect of trying to work out if people are lying or telling the truth more than i like trying to lie myself.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 04:59:13 pm
Summary analysis of Eevee (typed in the order of appearance, that is no, refining as I discover new stuff in the reading)(I read using the print feature and searching the player so no post numbers or quotes):

-D1, totally rickrolled by the ashersky gambit. Post after post wringing his hands over it. I thought the play was clear so maybe if eevee is scum that explains why they fell for it hook line and sinker N1.
-Looks pretty active D1 once he gets past ashersky. Clearly reading players and making analysis for whatever it was worth.
-He makes a comment about not having many town reads on D1 and that it is worrisome. While this exactly opposite of my experience (I start everyone as likely scum) I don't think scum wants to do this, they need to start polarizing the group and getting some potential buddies.
-When eevee starts townreading mcmc shortly thereafter schadd wants to lynch him.
-He accurately reads me which many don't do. My playstyle is is purposely designed for scum to misconstrue it so no spidey tingles here.
-Interactions with schadd post D1 hammerpalooza really make me feel like they are NOT partners.
-Very present in D1 twilight. Interactions looks entirely unscripted and very towny as he particiaptes very candidly and without careful wording.
-Did I mention he was on the Joseph wagon, well just about everyone alive today was on that wagon so I'm not seeing that helping anyone's case at all (TWM excepted).


Moving onto D2
-the early reactions surrounding the ashersky flip are somewhat telling. I think Eevee's look town and dandy.
-note here that Robz immediately positions for some lynch pool that contains known town and TWM, mcmc goes for it which is a critical point for D2
-eevee sheeps the Dylan vote with Robz and mcmc
-catches heat for being certain on mcmc, at this point in time I am also certain on mcmc although i haven't tipped my hand yet. the thing about certainty is only scum can afford it.
-Already ready to lynch andrew D2. this was sound thinking and not something scum needs to do at this stage in the game. I don't recall eevee being that kind of scum to setup the early bus to spring it two days later for the critical cred. Gotta read this as a strong town signal for fuzzy. Takes him to L-2. Wonder how the game shakes out in the alternate univers where we did the right thing here?
-Consistently uneasy on Robz and a wavering townread on schadd. this guy is super linear for the game progression so far. Not driving any wagons so if he is scum he is both the sheep and the jester which could be possible if it weren't for the high degree of consistency. The sheep can't be consistent when he is following the leader.
-right around here schadd defends Robz in a very partnery way.
-Dylan goes down in favor of known scum andrew who only me and eevee are left voting. In my opinion this is the crowning moment for eevee. He's town right here. The rest of the people alive today are on the wagoin which is a bitch for us to work out. I will have to reread the whol thing that happened while I was sleep where scum clearly derailed the andrew wagon and convinced some fools to get on dylan.


D3 dum dum dum
-playing  like a town superstar, scum read on schadd has reached epic proportions. correctly withholds votes and assigns passes based on claims. no scumminess at all here today.
-to be fair, andrew pretty well hangs himself throughout the day but eevee never lets the guy make an argument in his own favor. if eevee is scum here he is the most machiavellian bus master we have ever seen.
-correctly nails my town meta which always about living long enough to really get the feel and be the lynchpin in the late game. high five eevee, for someone who is confused by most you sure do read me right consistently.
-was voting schadd because his gut but switches to andrew because sound logic from people not me (although I'm definitely running the andrew wagon hard all day) no confirmation bias in my reading of this.

So there we have it. I feel confident Eevee is not the scumz but if he is holy hell that is one impressive performance and MVP to you. Like, really, that's impossible to play like thet you're town so let's move on.

I threw in my notices near the eevee posts of the Robz schadd interactions and reading eevee strengthened my suspicion on both of them

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 05:00:15 pm
uh unrelated but there is only a .5% chance of a restless spirit existing from the given flips
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 05:00:35 pm
What I don't get is schadd's apparently huge townread on me. I mean, I do think I look townie. But I wouldn't put myself up on the same pedestal as WW. Seems like a weird thing to do both ways from schadd's point of view.

If he is town he should at least be considering me as mafia, right? If he is mafia, what value does he get out of eliminating me from his mislynch pool?

the buddy effect. also, he has to leave the contested people out there for others to prey on while hiding his buddy. this is no time to bus.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on March 31, 2017, 05:01:32 pm
To me it's three pretty clear tiers

WW looks extremely townie, would be very surprised if he was scum (MVP chants)

PPS and TMW look solidly townie, but it wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world if one of them was scum

Robz/schaddd look quite scummy, would be super shocked if there wasn't at least one scum, and both being scum would totally make sense too.


This latest from schadd looks somewhat towny to me, but I would expect both robz (who even said it earlier) and schadd as scum to expect being in trouble about their stance on Andrew, so possibly there were schemes planned in the night to distract from that.

agree with everything but the last sentence. Although I put you just under WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on March 31, 2017, 05:03:42 pm
also if you're town, try to emotionally manipulate me into townreading you, but if you're scum, don't
i'm town i'm town! i feel i've managed to actually be helpful this game (i've had some pretty bad games recently), and i'm now hoping that will make you realize i'm town (if you are too).
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 05:09:20 pm

this is good. pls to do more of them. i will look at / respond to this later (for now i must smash bros)


also if you're town, try to emotionally manipulate me into townreading you, but if you're scum, don't
i'm town i'm town! i feel i've managed to actually be helpful this game (i've had some pretty bad games recently), and i'm now hoping that will make you realize i'm town (if you are too).
not enough exclamation points
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on March 31, 2017, 05:10:23 pm
this is good. pls to do more of them. i will look at / respond to this later (for now i must smash bros)
intended to do an empty quote of 1389 but it was just like "nah"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 31, 2017, 11:41:35 pm
Vote: Schadd

I guess we lose if it's TWM/Eevee. or TWM/PPS. But it feels like we're lynching me or schadd today, so.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 12:26:14 am
Vote: Schadd

I guess we lose if it's TWM/Eevee. or TWM/PPS. But it feels like we're lynching me or schadd today, so.

Is this based on anything from the game? How caught up are you (obviously you know the game state, but have you read through what got us here)? Or is this just a preserve your own skin vote?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 12:38:33 am
Starting a Robz reread, mostly because he is around and might respond to some stuff:

All the people Robz voted for: mcmc, Joseph, WW, Dylan, schadd.

I think this might be the biggest thing against Robz being mafia. If he is that means he never once voted for his partner (unless he is partners with WW) or until just now if he is partners with Andrew. Robz is like a super vet. I don't see him not voting for any partners through 3 days unless it was premeditated. Which I guess is possible.

On the flip side:
People who voted for Robz: Um. Has Robz not received a single vote all game? yeah, not a single vote all game. I wonder if that has ever happened before to make it to Day3 and not have a vote without being night killed or an IC or something (I don't know maybe it has and I am making a bigger deal out of this. But vote: Robz just to ruin the record.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 12:53:16 am
Day 1:
Was on the Joseph wagon. But so was nearly everyone else at this point. Not much else that is notable here I think.

Day 2:
Was one of the early proponents of lynching off wagon Day2. Obviously Andrew went that direction and turned out to be scum. But ultimately it was mcmc that kind of drove that and Robz and Andrew rode the coattails, which I think is scummier but that is partially confirmation bias at this point. And as a result ends up on the Dylan wagon very early.

Has a convenient would prefer Dylan, but would move to Andrew if needed post. Although to be fair here, the Dylan wagon was in full swing and a switch over to Andrew wasn't exactly "needed" to get a lynch through.

Day 3:
Again, is a proponent of lynching based off who was on/off wagon. This time based on who was on. Ends up voting for        no one. Hm. Maybe this is just him not being around, but I would expect him as mafia to vote for someone to at least get people thinking about voting somewhere other than Andrew. And does again have a kind of convenient "gosh I wish I read Andrew as scummy" post.

Day 4:
Didn't like his first post of the day. Buddying and appealing to emotion at the same time.

So I am pretty mixed about Robz. I don't know what to make of him not ever being voted for. If he is town, then it is just a meaningless aberration. If he is mafia, the only way I see that happening is if he specifically told his partners to not vote for him. I don't like how he tried to direct into lynching in specific baskets on Day 2 and Day 3 and was obviously on the wrong wagons and off the right wagons.

Mostly his being gone for so much just makes it hard to get a solid read on him either way as so much of what he did (or rather didn't do) seems to be influenced more by his activity availability (not a criticism, people are busy sometimes and I totally get that) than by his alignment. But it does make it difficult.

uvote until I read others
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 01:15:37 pm
Okeeee time for schaddddddddddd:

First thing is lots of posts. This should be fun. Although it is actually pretty easy to read given how short his posts are.

People schadd has voted for: pps, IDPTG, eevee, joseph, eevee, dylan,

People that have voted for schadd: pps, Andrew, eevee, Robz

As for his actual posts, I already said there wasn't a lot f scummy content when I did my reread on him Day2. That changes a bit now that we know Andrew was scum. But there wasn't a whole lot from Day1 or Day2.

Day 1:

I remember not loving his vote on Joseph (well frankly everyone's) but in his case I am now seeing that previously schadd gave a null read on Joseph and that he wanted to go check Joseph's scum games. But just a few posts later he votes for Joseph, but doesn't mention that when he actually votes for Joseph. Like it was just convenient. schadd seems to be willing to go and check on previous games, but didn't in that case. So that makes me suspicious, but I kind of feel like I a barking up the wrong tree. This feels like how I felt about Dylan where my points on him ended up being more nitpicky than they were actual scum hunting. So I dont' know. I guess I don't really get a read from this.

Day 2:

says the scum team is bad. Self referencing?

There is a fair amount of hedgy content about Andrew. Playing a good middle ground there.
Promotes the Dylan wagon (can't remember who he was voting prior to this. Eevee maybe? And then joins at L-1, but basically admits that he doesn't have a reason to do so or not do so. This looks opportunistic.

Day 3:
Starts out comparing Andrew vs mcmc to ash vs mcmc as town vs town. But doesn't really give a reason to explain why. Well actually says he will look back and see, but starts out trying to paint Andrew as townier. And starts out with voting PPS, who (you guessed it, Andrew ends up voting for). I see a trend here.

Then, like I noted before schadd says he is going to go over each person over the weekend. In the meantime, Andrew is at L-1 or L-2. schadd's first big "reread" is coincidently on PPS, who he votes putting him at 2 votes with Andrew. I know that schadd responded to this already, but I do see a narrative of schadd feeling like he had to get something going on PPS to stop the momentum on Andrew.

And yes, he does end up giving rereads on almost everyone, so I have to give him credit for that along with an interesting back and forth with Andrew toward the end there. Andrew says to stop wasting his time. Is that hinting that he wanted schadd to hammer him?

Day 4:
Like I said before, the biggest thing I am wary of is that everyone and their pet lizard want to vote schadd. That doesn't mean we are wrong here, but it does make me nervous.

At this point I would rather vote for schadd than Robz. But maybe at this point it doesn't matter and they are both mafia. They make more sense than schadd-Eevee/schadd-PPS/schadd-WW or Robz-Eevee/Robz-PPS/Robz-WW. Out of those other six options I don't know which one would be most likely. Maybe Robz-Eevee or schadd-Eevee. Mostly likely not schadd-PPS, and frankly the WW pairings are just there to be thorough.

I think I need to do an Eevee reread next.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 01, 2017, 01:18:29 pm
I think your day Day 2 analysis is correct for Robz until I reread but I read that as his strongest scumtell, and by that I mean it is not at all a weak one. What you have there is willingness to vote off wagon since if he and schadd are scum, only town are off wagon. But he realizes as, as I did, that Andrew was in trouble early on so he hedged his bets with a potential bus and signaled to his partners that he would bus to preserve some cred moving forward.

I think he would have bussed too so in some way we are fortunate he didn't or the argument on him would have been far less convincing.

Both Robz and schadd are behaving like resigned scum. Look, the rest of us are rereading and carefully considering where to place our vote hoping for the most likely scum target. These guys waited too late for a bus and now it is impotent unless they have some role power that I'm not even going to bother to contrive that would make them survive with us on their case for the rest of the game. But they can't bring themselves to try to make cases on the rest of us so they are going for the old busaroonie.

I feel really good eevee is not scum. before I go and make my final cases on Robz/schadd I'll do another play by play on TWM. Mostly since D2 he's struck me as town but maybe I can be convinced otherwise. Funny, I have to convince myself because neither of the top candidates seem motivated to do it for me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: LaLight on April 01, 2017, 01:42:22 pm
Vote Count 3+1.1

schadd (1): Robz888

Not Voting (5): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee, schadd

With 5+1 alive it takes 3+1 to lynch.
Day 3+1 ends Friday, Apr 8-1 at 13-2 am FT.

Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 02:30:56 pm
PPS and TWM, which do you both prefer?

I think i'm pretty ready to vote for schadd. Both look very much like resigned scum (I agree with your analysis), but my gut feels stronger about schadd, going back to yesterday.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 02:33:44 pm
At this point I would rather vote for schadd than Robz.

But I still want to reread you. And I don't think anyone has taken a comprehensive look at Andrew's full posts. And probably should reread PPS and WW just to be safe.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 02:36:51 pm
I'm not so worried about everyone seeming to be okay with voting him. Scum has got to worry about the following day as well, and we are seeing just talk, no votes yet.

It's crazy to think where the game could be now had we just lynched andrew day 2.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 02:37:28 pm
At this point I would rather vote for schadd than Robz.

But I still want to reread you. And I don't think anyone has taken a comprehensive look at Andrew's full posts. And probably should reread PPS and WW just to be safe.
I encourage all rereading! The summaries are great for collectively analyzing things.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 01, 2017, 03:00:34 pm
Looking at Andrew:

People he voted for: WW, schadd, mcmc, Joseph, TWM, mcmc, WW, Dylan, PPS

I think we already went over people who voted for him.

Actually looking at his actual posts:

Day 1: His early suspicion was on schadd, but it doesn't go anywhere. And it quickly turns into him being focused on mcmc for all the game long with an occasional side tangent on WW (makes WW look even more townie than he did before). I don't know if there is much we can take from his vote on Joseph. Obviously it was scum voting for a townie. In relation to others though I guess we can look at it. Andrew was the L-1 vote. So either both partners had to already be voting (Robz, schadd, Eevee) or PPS or only one and Andrew and PPS did a 1-2 punch. Or even more wild, Eevee/Andrew/PPS did a 1-2-3 punch.

Day 2:

Along with mcmc and Robz pushes for an off-wagon lynch. Andrew focuses on me out of the three, but is willing to go along with Dylan when it is available. Initially made me think this was a thought out strategy during the night, but now it looks more like Robz/Andrew just going along with what mcmc was pushing, so less entanglement with Robz than I had initially thought. But mostly he just argues with mcmc and that doesn't give us much to use now in Day 4.

Just noticed that he agreed with schadd on a townread of Robz at a time when there was some agitating about maybe voting Robz to participate more.

Side note: Worth noting that if schadd/Robz are mafia then all three mafia were once again on wagon. This is interesting as I remember Robz specifically saying to look only on wagon Day 3. With mcmc dying off, this would mean that there would be three mafia and two town (WW and myself) compared to three town off wagon. So if this is the case Robz as mafia was being a bit dangerous there to suggest that, and to then not do anything to move the lynch toward me or WW. So I am feeling a bit less confident about the Andrew/schadd/Robz mafia team after this. Hmmm.

Day 3: Andrew is mostly in defensive mode and hitting on PPS. So that obviously make PPS look pretty townie. schadd joins Andrew in this move to vote PPS. He also defends schadd to an extent when PPS, Eevee and Robz (I don't remember this in my reread of Robz) find schadd scummy. And again defends him when I suggest schadd is only voting for PPS because he is the one player that could be a counter wagon to himself. Then there is the interesting back and forth with schadd at the end of the day.

So yeah, I get a bit of a less scum read on Robz and more of a scumread on schadd. Or rather if schadd is scum partners with Andrew, then I am less confident about Robz. I could still see an Andrew-Robz pairing but would be slightly less suspicious of schadd.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 01, 2017, 03:42:29 pm
PPS and TWM, which do you both prefer?

I think i'm pretty ready to vote for schadd. Both look very much like resigned scum (I agree with your analysis), but my gut feels stronger about schadd, going back to yesterday.

Can you even imagine me playing resigned scum? Why would I be resigned? I'd be resigned if I was scum and you'd lynched Andrew on Day 1. As it is, scum could definitely still win this game. Indeed, I think scum has at least at least likely a 30% chance of winning this game, and possibly better odds.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 01, 2017, 03:44:13 pm
So yeah, I get a bit of a less scum read on Robz and more of a scumread on schadd. Or rather if schadd is scum partners with Andrew, then I am less confident about Robz. I could still see an Andrew-Robz pairing but would be slightly less suspicious of schadd.

If you're scum, TWM, this was a really genius thing to say. Because I previously thought you were setting up my mislynch to follow the correct lynch of schadd, but now it looks like you're not doing that. Which lessens my scum read on you!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 03:52:55 pm
PPS and TWM, which do you both prefer?

I think i'm pretty ready to vote for schadd. Both look very much like resigned scum (I agree with your analysis), but my gut feels stronger about schadd, going back to yesterday.

Can you even imagine me playing resigned scum? Why would I be resigned? I'd be resigned if I was scum and you'd lynched Andrew on Day 1. As it is, scum could definitely still win this game. Indeed, I think scum has at least at least likely a 30% chance of winning this game, and possibly better odds.
"I would never give up like this if I was scum, I must be town!"
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 03:55:18 pm
Robz, who are you thinking is the scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 01, 2017, 04:14:50 pm
PPS and TWM, which do you both prefer?

I think i'm pretty ready to vote for schadd. Both look very much like resigned scum (I agree with your analysis), but my gut feels stronger about schadd, going back to yesterday.

Can you even imagine me playing resigned scum? Why would I be resigned? I'd be resigned if I was scum and you'd lynched Andrew on Day 1. As it is, scum could definitely still win this game. Indeed, I think scum has at least at least likely a 30% chance of winning this game, and possibly better odds.
"I would never give up like this if I was scum, I must be town!"

I know, but that's actually true! I would not, as scum, be giving up, especially in a game where there is no reason to give up!

I'm not town who's giving up either, though. I'm just town who was absent and is now back.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 01, 2017, 04:16:13 pm
Robz, who are you thinking is the scum?

Schadd for sure. Beyond that, I'm not sure I should say, unless you really think I should. I don't want to help scum pick night kills.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 05:15:22 pm
composing a largepost
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 05:21:32 pm
okay wait this is actually an important question that i meant to ask earlier


robz, what do you think of breath of the wild?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 01, 2017, 07:30:11 pm
I feel great about schadd being scum.

I feel pretty good on robz being scum but I could am very interested to look into TWM and lesser so, WW. I can't rightly read WW. I think he would be one to fakeclaim like had to if he is scum.

I am curious if anyone can spell out what potential scum roles could exist in the game at this point with the known info (not treating WWs claim as a known).

I'm fine with lynching schadd now and getting another night flip but only once I know there's not some terribad potential scum role that could ruin us in one more night. I feel like schadd is the goon or weaker role remaining in the scum team.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 01, 2017, 07:41:43 pm
Isn't this MyLo?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 07:45:36 pm
Yeah. We can afford one no-lynch, but it's better to take it tomorrow as far as i can tell.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 07:47:48 pm
WW, what are you thinking?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 01, 2017, 07:59:53 pm
PPS sounded like he was saying a mislynch would be okay.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 01, 2017, 08:00:05 pm
No lynch today is bad as I'll just be killed.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 08:00:23 pm
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck i just wiped down my wireless keyboard in another room and lost a massive post
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 08:02:14 pm
oh my god that was like 2 hours


i mean i'm gonna retype it, don't see this as an excuse to get out of posting something
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 01, 2017, 08:03:23 pm
PPS sounded like he was saying a mislynch would be okay.

No? Wth?

I was saying that I feel super good about lynching schadd but I wanted someone who can parse setups to see what scum roles could still exist. Depending on how bad that could be I'd be willing to vote elsewhere but not gambling on a mislynch simply because I don't think schadd is the big bad wolf if there is one.

I'd lean strong on Robz but still have to reread TWM and WW before I'm voting anyone at all.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 01, 2017, 08:07:23 pm
I mean okay, just

Quote
I'm fine with lynching schadd now and getting another night flip but only once I know there's not some terribad potential scum role that could ruin us in one more night. I feel like schadd is the goon or weaker role remaining in the scum team.

does not sound like someone considering the possibility of the game being lost on such a decision.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 08:12:15 pm
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck i just wiped down my wireless keyboard in another room and lost a massive post
man, that sucks. feel you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 08:22:36 pm
PPS's big post of me was so spot on, it feels feels towny to me because i don't think scumPPS would want to go out of his way to make people less likely to lynch me. i'm going to be scared of playing scum against pps in the future.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 10:25:09 pm
-When eevee starts townreading mcmc shortly thereafter schadd wants to lynch him.
i started to want to lynch eevee at: 125 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg681181#msg681181), 129-30 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg681190#msg681190)
eevee townreads mcmc at: 217 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg681544#msg681544)


like i at some point said, my read of eevee hinged on a faulty memory of M92. my thinking was that he was really good at talking a lot and wallposting/over-analyzing stuff, and i had no memory of him doing that at all in M92, but it turns out that was just because my attention in M92 was an elaborately woven tapestry of tunneling people, none of whomst were eevee, and when i actually went back to look at it D2 this game i found out he talked plenty like he did here in that game. i did still (obv) think he was scum yesterDay but i'm cooling on it toDay.


-He accurately reads me which many don't do. My playstyle is is purposely designed for scum to misconstrue it so no spidey tingles here.
i had also townread you at that point (◕ᴗ◕✿)


I am also certain on mcmc although i haven't tipped my hand yet. the thing about certainty is only scum can afford it.
uh.


also incidentally 1051 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg684349#msg684349) makes it look like you perhaps weren't certain. but scum traps i'm sure


-right around here schadd defends Robz in a very partnery way.
defending is an odd word, considering robz hadn't received much (any?) suspicion at that point. can you elaborate on how it's partnery?


-Dylan goes down in favor of known scum andrew who only me and eevee are left voting. In my opinion this is the crowning moment for eevee. He's town right here. The rest of the people alive today are on the wagoin which is a bitch for us to work out. I will have to reread the whol thing that happened while I was sleep where scum clearly derailed the andrew wagon and convinced some fools to get on dylan.
if you look back at it, you'll find that your lord and savior, mcmc, whom you were able to use to coast to a correct read on andrew, drove the wagon pretty hard (and i think you noticed this because of 1051 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg684349#msg684349))


Vote: Schadd

I guess we lose if it's TWM/Eevee. or TWM/PPS. But it feels like we're lynching me or schadd today, so.


l@@@@@@me


as i think i said a couple times, my townread on him predicated on the idea that he actually felt bad about not really posting and would at some point be productive, but at this point it seems he is more concerned with endorsing the idea that he indeed deserves towncred for his play thing game and isn't really interested in the whole reading-the-game-and-interacting-with-people-such-that-you-find-out-who's-scum thing. so that kinda died. if he's scum this game, i will just lynch him the next time he tries to lurk like this and if he's town this game i will just lynch him the next time he tries to lurk like this.


People who voted for Robz: Um. Has Robz not received a single vote all game? yeah, not a single vote all game. I wonder if that has ever happened before to make it to Day3 and not have a vote without being night killed or an IC or something (I don't know maybe it has and I am making a bigger deal out of this. But vote: Robz just to ruin the record.
that i can remember, gkrieg only got voted once in M86 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16147.msg645208#msg645208). i hesitate to say that the comparison is meaningful since we have had rather interesting wagons every day this game and robz hasn't been very active (though this may be meaningful in and of itself)


Ends up voting for        no one. Hm.
it's these sorts of strings of 7 words that make me townread you. (become pocketed please (◕ᴗ◕✿))


First thing is lots of posts. This should be fun. Although it is actually pretty easy to read given how short his posts are.
that's generally what i shoot for



I remember not loving his vote on Joseph (well frankly everyone's) but in his case I am now seeing that previously schadd gave a null read on Joseph and that he wanted to go check Joseph's scum games.
yeah, i didn't get around to doing that iirc. i tend to think that looking back at games one wasn't in doesn't give as good of a sense of the person as the things you remember to be salient from being in the game (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Interactive_Tells#Tangent:_Meta) (for example: i made a case on lalight in M92 that was based on something i kinda remembered from M86, and used games i wasn't in/details i didn't really consider very important at the time to make an overexplained case on a townguy, and kinda stopped doing that when that was over. i did end up doing the same thing on robz and ended up being right but i actually just thought faust was softing a guilty on him & made a case to lampshade). and i especially think that now (for my case on andrew which i didn't get around to writing up i had looked at some of his older games, and noted, back two years ago, that as scum he tended to be less invested and more on the edge of conversation. l0l). i did intend to do it at some point with him, but i also didn't especially feel like it and instead cast a shitty pressure vote (which i probably would not have done if i had known the wagon would uh end prematurely)


says the scum team is bad. Self referencing?
nop! the one time i played scum (in a normal) we picked off a PR each night (◕ᴗ◕✿)(◕ᴗ◕✿)(◕ᴗ◕✿)(◕ᴗ◕✿)(◕ᴗ◕✿)


(the wifom is up to you to decide, dear reader)


There is a fair amount of hedgy content about Andrew. Playing a good middle ground there.
Promotes the Dylan wagon (can't remember who he was voting prior to this. Eevee maybe? And then joins at L-1, but basically admits that he doesn't have a reason to do so or not do so. This looks opportunistic.
at the time i had andrew as town and wasn't thinking about him as much as i should have (hinsight ♫), and only a few mechanical things were bugging me (hadn't claimed, arguing with townies, bussing stuff). i can see where hedgy comes from


dylan i did have a somewhat strong gut scum as well, and i would have felt even shittier about the lynch had i not, since i knew i had a bad track record with him (made a big dumb case on him in M94 that was a big part of getting mislynched without any consequence). as i sort of explained at the time, i had a bunch of townreads (including andrew and robz (◕ᴗ◕✿)(◕ᴗ◕✿)) and felt that i could do a reasonable poe by lynching among the several people i didn't have an especially solid read on (and again i did rather earnestly think he was scum but i also knew that he is one of many people that just give me false positives because i'm bad at this game (◕ᴗ◕✿)).


Starts out comparing Andrew vs mcmc to ash vs mcmc as town vs town.
yeah that also sucks in H ♫ I ♫ N ♫ D ♫ S ♫ I ♫ G ♫ H ♫ T. it wasn't that it seemed tvt to me, rather i thought andrew was town and was unsure whether mcmc's read of him was accurate


Then, like I noted before schadd says he is going to go over each person over the weekend. In the meantime, Andrew is at L-1 or L-2. schadd's first big "reread" is coincidently on PPS, who he votes putting him at 2 votes with Andrew. I know that schadd responded to this already, but I do see a narrative of schadd feeling like he had to get something going on PPS to stop the momentum on Andrew.
it's obviously a big question of wifom but at present (and kind of at the time) i don't think there was really any way andrew didn't get lynched, esp. given that ww was locked onto him. there was the question of whether i bother putting my thoughts out there but that's not really a question one should ask themself if you have the time.


i can imagine it being suspicious that i didn't do the rest of the cases until the evening but i had work that afternoon and forgot a couple things i had to do in preparation (and probably wouldn't have had time to do the rest of the cases even if i felt like it)


everyone and their pet lizard want to vote schadd.
(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/useravs/avatar_2999_1427549835.png)


Robz, who are you thinking is the scum?

Schadd for sure. Beyond that, I'm not sure I should say, unless you really think I should. I don't want to help scum pick night kills.
this is, like, actually bullshit. if you actually thought i was flipping scum, you would think that my flip would confirm ww town


I am curious if anyone can spell out what potential scum roles could exist in the game at this point with the known info (not treating WWs claim as a known).
TTT = Rolecop, 1-shot Ninja, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TT = Rolecop, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman
TTT is where ww is lying, TT is where he isn't


I'd lean strong on Robz but still have to reread TWM and WW before I'm voting anyone at all.
i appreciate that you're not even trying to figure me out at all (◕ᴗ◕✿) even though The Man Himself townread me harder than your pet squirrel
schadd and I have been way more buddy buddy than eevee and I.


PPS's big post of me was so spot on, it feels feels towny to me because i don't think scumPPS would want to go out of his way to make people less likely to lynch me. i'm going to be scared of playing scum against pps in the future.
he does have the motive to pocket you. what you're thinking is essentially what i thought with gkrieg in M86 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16147.msg644942#msg644942) (even though he wasn't actually trying to pocket me l0l)- note that if pps is scum, then he doesn't have any need to lynch you in particular at all






in short: unf yeah daddy keep calling me resigned scum i'm a baaaad, bad townie
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 01, 2017, 10:50:17 pm
who do you think the scumteam is, schadd?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 01, 2017, 10:56:36 pm
atm pps/robz
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 12:55:34 am
PPS was very consistent in his resolve to lynch andrew, who was scum. that wins a lot townpoints.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:15:04 am
he is also very consistent in his resolve to lynch me, so perhaps you can understand where i'm coming from.


i've been wrong on a significant chunk of my reads this game and should probably, like, deserve to lose, and there's nothing else really that i can do (i haven't done any forum-survivor type stuff & can't really talk myself out of a mislynch if it's day 1 and nothing interesting has happened yet, let alone if i was wrong about the three folks that got lynched). note that if i am town & pps is scum, the townpoints pps earned are enough to win him the game, and at the point where pps started being consistent on an andrew lynch, the dylan lynch had already made itself possible (mcmc preferred it at the time, 802 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683846#msg683846) vs. 815 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683883#msg683883)) and between andrew and robz (or whomstever), someone could have pushed the lynch a lot more (though fortunately for them they didn't end up needing to)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 01:36:30 am
Isn't it more towny to push a scum lynch even after a town option becomes available?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:39:45 am
yeah, and (at least) two scum did that, no matter who you think the team is
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:41:33 am
like there's a reason the scum off wagon argument exists, and there's a reason that pps brought it up in his one explanation of andrew that he did and made sure to note that it's scummy if scum uses it
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:46:09 am
yeah, and (at least) two scum did that, no matter who you think the team is
*didn't do that
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 01:53:03 am
I think you are trying to obfuscate here a little bit. It's making me think you/robz is likelier and likelier the more you to try to push for PPS.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:54:58 am
if i'm town, who should i think is scum?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 01:56:07 am
should i just acquiesce to pps wanting nothing more than to lynch me?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 01:58:45 am
i mean you shouldn't think anything, but i would expect robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 01:59:30 am
should i just acquiesce to pps wanting nothing more than to lynch me?
it is commendable you fight, whatever your alignment.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 02:00:20 am

i mean you shouldn't think anything, but i would expect robz.
and i do think he's scum as well, and i don't expect we lynch anyone other than him if not me
should i just acquiesce to pps wanting nothing more than to lynch me?
it is commendable you fight, whatever your alignment.
arigato
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2017, 02:04:29 am
So here is the thing. We now know that mafia didn't need to bus yesterday. Since the mcmc virgin power didn't work that means mafia pretty much for certain knew they could get a nk through, right. IF WE had mislynched yesterday the game would be over. We now know mafia knew that. So given that we can ask would mafia choose to bus at that point? Cause in my estimation there were other options to potentially lynch yesterday.

Which makes me think mafia weren't the primary movers and shakers of yesterday's lynch. Cause what would have been the pint of gaining towncrec for today I felt you could have won it yesterday?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 02:15:33 am
pps would be very much suspect had he not voted andrew yesterDay, eevee perhaps as well. and suddenly the rest of the wagon is you, ww, idptg.


scum letting a scum lynch happen in mylo is intuitively somewhat infrequent but it still happens (and has in recent memory: see M95 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16932.msg683857#msg683857); robz, efhw). if you're at that point, letting a correct lynch slip through and then pushing a mislynch off wagon can be easier than just doing the mislynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 02, 2017, 10:52:37 am
I think schadd makes valid points.

Schadd, please make a case for a scum team that does not include yourself, myself, or eevee.

That is definitely where I am stuck.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 12:34:27 pm
so. like. robz/twm?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 02, 2017, 05:04:19 pm
so. like. robz/twm?

If you insist, I mean, you could include WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 05:58:09 pm
while it's great that he is active and engaged, scumschadd would have all the reason to do that as well.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 02, 2017, 06:04:46 pm
he is also very consistent in his resolve to lynch me, so perhaps you can understand where i'm coming from.


i've been wrong on a significant chunk of my reads this game and should probably, like, deserve to lose, and there's nothing else really that i can do (i haven't done any forum-survivor type stuff & can't really talk myself out of a mislynch if it's day 1 and nothing interesting has happened yet, let alone if i was wrong about the three folks that got lynched). note that if i am town & pps is scum, the townpoints pps earned are enough to win him the game, and at the point where pps started being consistent on an andrew lynch, the dylan lynch had already made itself possible (mcmc preferred it at the time, 802 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683846#msg683846) vs. 815 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683883#msg683883)) and between andrew and robz (or whomstever), someone could have pushed the lynch a lot more (though fortunately for them they didn't end up needing to)
Basically, this is why i want to lynch schadd.

or robz who made a similar post. gahhh. i just feel the "if i were you guys i'd lynch me too, i probably deserve to lose" is so so often from scum that doesn't have any other argument because they've been caught. i feel schadd is winning pps over by sheer volume and effort (understandable, given how underwhelming robz has been, but we should go for the guy who has the highest chance of being scum no matter what)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 02, 2017, 10:02:47 pm
have more to say but haven't been in the mood
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: LaLight on April 03, 2017, 04:41:56 am
Vote Count 3+1.2

schadd (1): Robz888

Not Voting (5): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, Eevee, schadd

With 5+1 alive it takes 3+1 to lynch.
Day 3+1 ends Friday, Apr 8-1 at 13-2 am FT.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 09:44:18 am
he is also very consistent in his resolve to lynch me, so perhaps you can understand where i'm coming from.


i've been wrong on a significant chunk of my reads this game and should probably, like, deserve to lose, and there's nothing else really that i can do (i haven't done any forum-survivor type stuff & can't really talk myself out of a mislynch if it's day 1 and nothing interesting has happened yet, let alone if i was wrong about the three folks that got lynched). note that if i am town & pps is scum, the townpoints pps earned are enough to win him the game, and at the point where pps started being consistent on an andrew lynch, the dylan lynch had already made itself possible (mcmc preferred it at the time, 802 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683846#msg683846) vs. 815 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17007.msg683883#msg683883)) and between andrew and robz (or whomstever), someone could have pushed the lynch a lot more (though fortunately for them they didn't end up needing to)
Basically, this is why i want to lynch schadd.

or robz who made a similar post. gahhh. i just feel the "if i were you guys i'd lynch me too, i probably deserve to lose" is so so often from scum that doesn't have any other argument because they've been caught. i feel schadd is winning pps over by sheer volume and effort (understandable, given how underwhelming robz has been, but we should go for the guy who has the highest chance of being scum no matter what)

I think schadd's level of effort here is scum indicative, whereas mine is town indicative. That's probably the best case I can make at this point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 10:14:47 am
So much scum resignation. I'm really surprised you guys aren't editing it out.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 11:38:59 am
Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 11:51:37 am
I think schadd's level of effort here is scum indicative, whereas mine is town indicative. That's probably the best case I can make at this point.
if checking out in mylo is town indicative for you remind me to policy lynch next game


So much scum resignation. I'm really surprised you guys aren't editing it out.
yeah daddy don't stop
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 11:59:01 am
schadd's frustration looks somewhat calculated, because it's only directed at PPS (even though here for example i just voted for him)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:04:44 pm
Here I go with a TWM reread (same disclaimers as before apply here):

DeeWon:
-Opens with a vote on Dylan well past RVS. Should note both Andrew and Robz are voting mcmc right now with the rest of the 4 person wagon being known town. This is especailly notable because shortly thereafter Robz doies a very wishy washy thing where he says he doesn't really want to lynch mcmc buts wants the informational wagon it creates. Very scummy on Robz despite the fact that I defended him at the time. Maybe the remaining scum are PPS/Robz?
-His early lynch pool is "ww, dylan, IDontplay and schadd and maaaaybe ash"?
-Let's note that right here in the game WW is already wanting to know why we are not taking a look at Andrew. Is WW good enough to go ahead and start the early suspicion halo later halo effect on a partner this early? Absolutely. Was it necessary given the game state? definitely not.
-Totally misses the EOD hammer thingy but he is off wagon which is notable and will be significant the next day.

DeeToo:
-Does not like the off wagon lynch pool that gets brought out first thing. Let's note here that I had pushed for a mcmc lynch D1 but this is going to be my soapbox for D2. I ma really feeling scum around mcmc right now but at some point I think less so but maintain the facade to try to draw in some scum (which I believe worked on Andrew)
-His position against the off wagon pool is understandable from either alignment so all in all this 100% null.
Some dilly dallying and then this interesting thing happens where Andrew votes TWM because that's the plan obvs and TWM OMGUS votes right back. Self, I say, would an intentional scum bus attempt here happen like this? Firstly, does known scum!Andrew setup the play by limiting the potential lynches to just 3 people and knowing 1 of them is his partner and then go straight to voting the partner as opposed to maybe clearing him and voting the other 2? Self, you know that is silly talk. this little interaction here sure does look like scum v town and we already know who scum is in this instance. Okay, self, carry on and see where this leads...
-Oh look, Andrew immediately suggests that mcmc (known town that I kind of suckered himi into) is his preferred lynch but would pick TWM if we're going to go off wagon (which of course is the mcmc course of action, so a little having cake and eating too).
-TWM makes valid arguments against the off-wagon notion without really trying to make it look like he must be town for doing so or any kind of partner bus thing that I would expect here if TWM was scum.
-TWM fairly handles some of the suspicions that he is a lruker and even sees town in mcmc for doing so. I'll note here that I personally never saw him as lurking. this is an internet game with people who have day jobs and his posting style perfectly reflected that fact. this isn't a chairs or that other guy I can't remember now because he posts so little I can't remember him.
-More Andrew grilling of TWM and it definitely does not look like a partner situation at all. I really think the Andrew interaction is clearing TWM at this point. The really probably should ahve killed TWM N2. TWM was clearly not around for the end of D1 and Andrew is doing a pretty terrible job of trying to paint that as scummy and worthy of TWM being the best off wagon lynch.
-TWM tries to make sense of my D1 hammer in a very towny way, here. Scum, knowing I am Town, can't help themselves to not try to make this a lynch platform. Robz exempted ofc because he knows exactly what I am doing.
-Some good analysis and interactions with known townsfolk where he is not trying to make any committed positions against anyone although he has been pretty busy fighting off the idea that maybe he should be the one to die. This is a super town vibe as D2 starts to wind down.
-He clearly doesn't understand what I was doing when I started voting Andrew where I think a scum partnered TWM would have done a lot more with my switch over. Soon thereafter he analyzes the growing Andrew wagon in a 100% null sort of way.
-Let us note that at this point the Andrew wagon is, in order of appearance TWM, WW, PPS, Eevee. Does that look like a scum bus about to happen? I think not. But this is where I want to look into exactly how things broke down and Dylan got lynched instead.
-But wait, there's more. TWM starts doing in depth analysis on the 3 or 4 ideas he posited earlier about why the andrew wagon is stalling and holy smokes this looks towny AF. If he is a scum partner he is flat out shotgun bussing any potential scum aprtners while saying towny things about the known townies.
-Lookie here, WW concurs. Null tell because this looks so towny to me today because of what I know now that I didn't know then. That said, I remember reading WW post that then and feeling better about both of these guys even though I couldn't put a finger on why. I suppose this was n opportune time for a scum!WW to argue as he was perfectly positioned to do so. Instead I think he did well to identify a town cohort.
-Andrew flounders wondering why the mcmc case can't stick and tried to leverage the fact that others had cased him, but somehow omits me because I surely had. this is just weird in an anecdotal way.
-TWM says he could vote for WW. That's leftfield enough. Maybe it was just a reaction to feeling some confirmation bias? I do that nowadays because I can be manipulated by people telling me they think I am townie. I think they must be in return. Only way this doesn't work on me is if I am scum. So, if TWM is like me this reaction is a towny thing. He follows through and votes him with a question mark attached.
-Good for me, I attacked this line of thinking. I wanted Andrew dead but TWM is capitulating because he "finds WW scummy" although I've seen no case to that effect. Hmmm.
-Oh look, he doesn't like WW's playstyle. glib oneliners. I totally agree. It is his meta, though. I hate it and I'm sure he loves it because it's unreadable regardless of alignment. I'm just jealous, I couldn't do it. I have to play super scummy all the time and become more town late game when I'm town and have a checkmate condition already set for late game when I am scum. It's way harder than glib oneliners but probably only equally effective.
-Andrew's dick just got hard so he votes WW, too. Damn, Andrew you have got to learn to keep your cool when you are scum under fire. You basically single handledly cleared all the townies on D2 by trying to save your own skin.
-Holy shit, TWM calls that spade a spade. 100% town tell right here.
-Some more circling around WW's playstyle by Eevee, I try to shut it down because we have way more interesting things happening, and also because it's true, it's just WW being WW, not a tell.
-mcmc supplants TWM on the andrew wagon. It's all starting to make sense now. This is why they killed mcmc. Still anxious to see the tide turn on Dylan but I believe this was the slack tide, though.
-Yep, yep, mcmc fatefully indicates he'd still like to lynch Dylan. Damn, dude, if you had just stuck to your guns about andrew because that guy already outed all the townies, anyhow. For future reference, everyone, the Andrew lynch right here was the correct lynch not just because he was scum but because it was a truly informational lynch. The dylan lynch didn't tell us shit.
-Andrew eggs it on by saying mcmc's switch to the Andrew wagon was a scared scum move which is idiotic on its face.
-Here we go, WW is now fine with a Dylan lynch.
-BAM, TWM takes Andrew to L-1. This is some PPS level bait and switch, fuck yeah. I'm liking this guy more and more. This is how we do it.
-Dylan, intent to hammer. What the actual fuck, I'm still not seeing how we killed Dylan, I'm biting my nails!
-Motherfucker, TWM unvotes. He doesn't like that Dylan got on board too? You mean opened his eyes, saw the light, and came to Jesus? I mean, cmon, you said the plan to lynch off wagon was likely a scum driven idea (cause it was). Show some conviction!
-Dylan totally makes the best point all game, that flipping Andrew limits the obvious lynches immediately. Guess, what we finally did it the next day. Just imagine how winning we would be if we did it then.
-Here comes super scum schadd to say that Andrew must be getting double or triple bussed. Okay super scum schadd, you must be the agent of the Dylan mislynch. I have to hand it to you. It's cool, though, because we're going to hang your ass today! Too bad you couldn't help implicating your other partner, Robz, by saing he must be town, too. But I guess you had to pave the way for the mislynch. this was the correct play since you're buddy was in hot water. That said, my correct play here is to hammer dat ass but wait, you knew his flip would be overly imformative so you had to do this. I see. rock and a hard place. I get the resignation today.
-Schadd coaches andrew through avoiding a dumbass claim.
-andrew dumbly agrees with scahdd about Robz, holy ghost! Andrew just shat the scum bed.
-Okay back to TWM a bit as he waffles all over the damned place. I really think he is torn town here just getting suspicious of everyone which is a pretty town tell because he's not fixing narratives and guiding wagons with it. the problem is it is go time not waffle time. Waffle time is over. Pick a conviction and go with it, here.
-Yep, WW unvotes. We saw low tide, then slack tide, here come high tide, it just gets uglier from here I presume.
-TWM votes Dylan because, fuck, we're out of time so let's just accept someone else's idea of what to do it's too much stress to maintain my own convictions so eloquently expressed earlier. This is poor town play, I mean maybe scum but it just seems so resigned.
-Schadd is ready for a Dylan lunch.
-IDP, you sap, you rally the troops on Dylan. It is finished, my father, my father...
-mcmc prefers dylan over andrew
-WW can do some dylan but prefers some andrew (thanks from your future towns people)
-Robz, you dastardly fiend, now you show up to say you want some Dylan but would bus ole andrew right about now just to stop the information bleeding.
-TWM thinks maybe Dylan or Andrew, wheatever, they could be parnters
-WW did some homework, nope not partners. At least the guy can have some conviction.
-mcmc has just lost all his wits and agrees they could be partners despite WW's astute analysis that would be a NO.
-mcmc, andrew, schadd all vote Dylan real quick like. Dylan is staked to the beach, the tide was rising and rising and now it is past his nostrils.
-WW judas's ole Dylan and shoves the spear in his side. The veil is ripped and the earth shakes.
-Twilight is moderately interesting. Schadd digs for some twoncred from known town about to flip as to why his name didn't make the likely scum team list. It gets shot to shit when he basically says he drew 3 names from a hat.



DeeTre:
-It's the Andrew vs PPS show. We know who is going to win and I know why it had ot be me they wanted dead. Looked at my final comment D2 about Robz and schadd being the obv scum with the Dylan flip. I called the scum team, mcmc was nixed. Everyone else was negotiable. I had that juicy hammer to leverage. It all starts to come together now, bitches!
-Robz ready to bus by looking where, but on wagon ofc, because that off wagon thing we just had to do the day before is clearly a dumb idea. He implicates WW, TWM, schadd, andrew. Beautiful. robz, if Andrew hadn't shit in your bed and your IRL had allowed you to play your full game on I think we'd be cooked already.
-Scahdd tries to say some dumb shit about Robz townslipping, bah. Scum got a bed shitter and a bed wetter.
-Robz, does the best play he can which is say the mcmc flip would be the last flip  a scum!andrew would make. Hell, the bed's ruined, why bother anymore?
-WW shits on the townslip BS, too.
-WW is clear that andrew is scum today.
-Robz does the towniest thing ever and calls for a mass claim. I DO NOT see the scum narrative to that one unless we have a Robz/WW team. If we do, then I can see those two cooking up the mass claim plan and parsing the setup to protect WW with a PR (which magically failed last night).
-Oh, look, we know hwo the UB is now, so we can make sure to NK his ass tonight. Maybe a decent plan, after all.
-TWM is at the bottom of the list for claims. I don't think he shows up until claim time.
-TWM can't see how dumb the move to Dylan was.
-Robz is implicating TWM and Schadd. If this is scum!Robz and I think it is this is the play I expect him to make. It's my kind of scum style too. Look, PPS or andrew are cooked today. Probably andrew. I need to bus some to hedge my bets but I don't want to force andrew through today if I don't have to so I have to bus schadd/(or maybe TWM?) It's pretty benign today but I get to point to it tomorrow when I am alone and have to ride as much cred as possible.
-andrew tries to delfecta nd say he is wary of scahdd and Robz. just wow. Note to scum when you are this done you don't do this at all. You go totally after the towniest guy alive and kamikaze away from your partners.
-I spell out that I know Robz well enough to know he's not playing his town game at this late stage. We're both like that, our late game is the tell which is why you should kill us early. I'm doing this in response to Andrew who continues to spray collateral damage on his partners..
-WW finds his conviction. He is voting Andrew today, FTW. He also sees a schadd/Robz (maybe eevee) team. If WW is scum he is playing marvelously and I don't mean that in a he must be town way, either.
-I'm telling everybody I smell some shit. WW agrees and now Eevee agrees.
-Robz gives us some more scum reasd. Eevee is not on the list. TWM, schadd, PPS, andrew. This is solid play as I described before. It's even got me wondering on TWM a bit today. The one thing is clear, though. Schadd is getting bussed by all of his partners forever. He is the obvious lynch choice today.
-TWM is ready to get some andrew lunch.
-PPS leads the charge with a vote.
-IDP wants andrew or TWM
-WW reads TWM as town. I don't think they could be partners, myself. Doesn't clear WW, though.
-andrew wriggles and writhes. TWM and WW both call him on his shit. If this is bussing it is ugly as hell. I mean, the degree of conviction from TWM and WW is so high here that if it is a bus then it was decided N2 and I just don't think Andrew would have put as much effort into his defense if he knew the fix was in like this. I think it is more of Andrew clearing our townies for us.
-TWM defends himself some in a positively towny way. He is absolutely right that his name keeps getting brought up as potential scum but with zero case for it. I'm seeing zero case for it, will anyone provide one, read on...
-Andrew wants to know why I find Schadd scummy. I provide reasons and Robz concurs. this is troubling to my scum read on him.
-Andrew is tied to the stake, the wood is stacked some and TWM comes along and splashes on some gasoline with his vote.
-Eevee pulls a lighter out his pocket with another vote.
-I invite IDP to strike the flint but reckon Robz would rather for some cred while proposing schadd hunt a different wagon.
-TWM looks at schadd and says Robz looks scummier. I reckon why that might be? because they are both scum?
-Damn, I called it, schadd goes to construct a case on me, lol.
-Eevee, still holding the lighter, knows the score. If andrew was town then scum would have hammered his ass already.
-Schadd desperately tries to put together a case on eevee.
-Does a piddly thing on TWM (potential scum tell on TWM but I think a bigger one on Robz, where was the Robz alternate case, Schadd?)
-IDP does the right thing and hammers scum!Andrew.



Sorry that turned into way more than a TWM analysis.

Vote Schadd







Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:05:38 pm

schadd's frustration looks somewhat calculated, because it's only directed at PPS (even though here for example i just voted for him)

or maybe it's because it's 11:00 am and i'm in high school gym class and my frustration with you would take a more long-winded post, which i just didn't feel like doing last night.


plus i don't think mcmc plus either of pps/robz have an excuse to be wrong about you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:05:48 pm
Dangit, perfection ruined by a missing semicolon - Vote: schadd
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:12:17 pm
I reread Eevee last night, but honestly didn't really take any notes. I feel like my read of him is similar to PPS's.

I just don't see PPS or WW being scum. Maybe I am totally off there.

I do have a hard time seeing Robz and schadd being mafia together. But if schadd is mafia we can deal with that tomorrow. schadd just fits the bill too perfectly.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:12:30 pm
Any last words?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:13:24 pm
meh. Nothing he says will change my mind. Let's just be honest here:

vote: schadd

Hoping for the best!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:13:36 pm
game
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:15:17 pm
Nothing he says will change my mind.
that's been most of both of d3 & d4 for pretty much all of us tbh
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:16:55 pm
it's nice to be able to say the only downfall was being wrong on all of your reads lmao
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:19:53 pm
I do have a hard time seeing Robz and schadd being mafia together

Wow, really? I think I made several ties in my last reread post.

BTW, if you are scum, TWM, very well played.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:20:36 pm
Schadd doesn't strike me as the type to troll twilight...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:20:55 pm
Schadd doesn't strike me as the type to troll twilight...

But it sure is fun, so...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:21:18 pm
Schadd doesn't strike me as the type to troll twilight...
i think i know someone whomst is
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:21:39 pm
ninjad. wp
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:21:51 pm
I do have a hard time seeing Robz and schadd being mafia together

Wow, really? I think I made several ties in my last reread post.

BTW, if you are scum, TWM, very well played.

I brought up something (I honestly can't remember exactly what it was) a couple pages back.

Lemme go find it.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:22:50 pm
Side note: Worth noting that if schadd/Robz are mafia then all three mafia were once again on wagon. This is interesting as I remember Robz specifically saying to look only on wagon Day 3. With mcmc dying off, this would mean that there would be three mafia and two town (WW and myself) compared to three town off wagon. So if this is the case Robz as mafia was being a bit dangerous there to suggest that, and to then not do anything to move the lynch toward me or WW. So I am feeling a bit less confident about the Andrew/schadd/Robz mafia team after this. Hmmm.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:23:49 pm
But you do have points. What I mean, is that it isn't a slam dunk conclusion. If we lynched right correctly here, there is still work to be done tomorrow, not just immediately lynch Robz.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:24:19 pm
That TWM ahmmered without having spent enough time to read my post is very troubling, indeed.

I probably should have withheld my vote for a while but for come reason forgot we were L-2. Also, convictions!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:24:54 pm
So, assuming schadd is scum, who is the NK target tonight?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:27:53 pm
Also, if neither Robz or Schadd is scum then I feel dumb as hell.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:28:06 pm
That TWM ahmmered without having spent enough time to read my post is very troubling, indeed.

I probably should have withheld my vote for a while but for come reason forgot we were L-2. Also, convictions!

One can read and come to different conclusions.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:28:23 pm
Also, if neither Robz or Schadd is scum then I feel dumb as hell.

I'll feel less dumb if one of them is WW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:28:57 pm
That TWM ahmmered without having spent enough time to read my post is very troubling, indeed.

I probably should have withheld my vote for a while but for come reason forgot we were L-2. Also, convictions!

One can read and come to different conclusions.

Well, I don't think you hammered a scum partner, FWIW.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:38:22 pm
i don't see any reason not to twilight troll here, really, because there might still be unclaimed rs/vig or something
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 12:39:55 pm
There was a hammer?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:40:46 pm
yup! because why wait for you to talk?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:41:20 pm
There was a hammer?

Robz, Eevee, PPS, TWM
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:41:41 pm
Totally forgot Robz had placed the first vote.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: LaLight on April 03, 2017, 12:42:38 pm
Thread locked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: LaLight on April 03, 2017, 12:45:33 pm
Vote Count 3+1.final

schadd (3+1): Robz888, pingpongsam, Eevee, The_Wine_Merchant

Not Voting (2): Witherweaver, schadd

With 5+1 alive it took 3+1 to lynch.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: LaLight on April 03, 2017, 12:50:26 pm
schadd has been lynched! He was 591286729879, the Vanilla Townie!

GAME OVER

The_Wine_Merchant, who was 1, the Mafia Strongman and Eevee, who was 3, the Mafia 2-shot Ninja won!

The_Wine_Merchant is the MVP.


Scum QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/chPaaRyw2Tr6)
Mod QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/sy3WH2SvDpP)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:50:53 pm
well, neat
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: LaLight on April 03, 2017, 12:51:09 pm
Thread unlocked
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:51:35 pm
wp again twm
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:52:07 pm
Wow, feeling dumb as hell.

Great job guys. All my analysis on andrew can be largely replaced with great job making the other guys look terrible so we'd mislynch them instead.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:52:34 pm
i think i can safely renounce fault
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:52:49 pm
GAME OVER

The_Wine_Merchant, who was 1, the Mafia Strongman and Eevee, who was 3, the Mafia 2-shot Ninja won!

Don't forget about our awesome Rolecop, Andrew! He totally allowed us to bus him and beat him down (with some help from PPS and WW) on multiple days and fully deserves as much credit as anybody!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 12:53:13 pm
Why was it necessary to vote?  It's only been a few days.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 12:57:08 pm
so our scum team is probably bad

Probably.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 12:59:29 pm
I can't imagine anything that was going to talk me out of schadd today.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 12:59:50 pm
i had 2/3 d3 (◕ᴗ◕✿)


if not for the hammer bullshit i would have probably continued my record of voting scum at the end of each D1(◕ᴗ◕✿)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 01:02:06 pm
I wouldn't have gone for TWM today, but Eevee was a definite possibility.  I probably would not have voted for schadd.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:03:57 pm
robz can you give a shit about your town game please (◕ᴗ◕✿)


so our scum team is probably bad

Probably.
i think that all three of you are good at lookin town, eevee i knew this about, you i also knew this about but it didn't look like you were trying to do it this game (and you did play really well), andrew i didn't know this about
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:05:06 pm
yeah i mean it's good to know there's nothing i could have reasonably done today
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 01:06:03 pm
Also, if neither Robz or Schadd is scum then I feel dumb as hell.

Dumb as hell.

I feel it too though. Not picking up on Eevee was unbelievably dumb of me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 03, 2017, 01:08:08 pm
Good game! My partners can abuse me all they want, and it worked out pretty damn well. TWM for MVP. Awesome job getting townread the whole game (and Eevee too), and great idea about using the switch to kill mcmc.

Other highlights:

What I thought was super scummy and would eventually get TWM lynched but I guess it's not so bad in hindsight:

Guys deadline is in 2 hours and 43 min! I am in bed and will put my vote on andrew or dylan. I would still rather dylan over andrew. I will go back to dylan if others will.

I guess I could go Dylan?

Vote: Dylan

pps trying to paint me as a really shitty scum player, which is true, but I still fooled him pretty hard:

-andrew tries to delfecta nd say he is wary of scahdd and Robz. just wow. Note to scum when you are this done you don't do this at all. You go totally after the towniest guy alive and kamikaze away from your partners.

-andrew dumbly agrees with scahdd about Robz, holy ghost! Andrew just shat the scum bed.

robz can you give a shit about your town game please (◕ᴗ◕✿)


so our scum team is probably bad

Probably.
i think that all three of you are good at lookin town, eevee i knew this about, you i also knew this about but it didn't look like you were trying to do it this game (and you did play really well), andrew i didn't know this about

Really? Everyone and their mom finds me scummy every game I'm in it seems like.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:09:54 pm
Plus you the scummy, scum man. Scum diddity scum face. Wubba lubba dub dub!
Free wine and rick and morty references? I like this guy!

I just got eevee buddied for the first time! I should get some sort of badge to commemorate!
how u know what that is
!!!!!


glad to see nobody read those


i was actually considering asking if TWM is an alt of someone here or something
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 01:17:05 pm
I was suspicious of TWM, but not Eevee. Actually I woke up in the middle of the night last night and said to myself, "Why are you so sure Eevee is town?" And then I ignored that impulse.

I do care about my town games! Being busy explained my long absence, not a lack of caring.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:20:37 pm
Schadd, please make a case for a scum team that does not include yourself, myself, or eevee.
thanx for giving me an out babe
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 3+1)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 01:27:32 pm
Schadd, please make a case for a scum team that does not include yourself, myself, or eevee.
thanx for giving me an out babe

I mean, if you had spun a very good TWM/WW tale you'd have been half right.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:28:20 pm
and half definitely wrong
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:47:56 pm
eevee openly pr-hunted in the main thread as his first post D1


and he got townread for it


i had to faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllll to looose it allllllll, in the eeeeeeeeeend it doesn't even mattteeeeeeeer
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:50:09 pm
everything i said of myself d4 was met with a brick wall and occam's razor would say that the brick wall was in fact scum but fortunately i was able to look through that and see all the people that hard townread him -_-
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:51:37 pm
oh i'm also mining all of the emotional manipulation i can get out of this next time i'm scum


...or town
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 01:55:22 pm
the other thing i can rationalize this with is that this played out as 3v9 with 2 named townies
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2017, 02:01:33 pm
my plan was to awkwardly defend schadd in anticipation of getting lynched myself today (I thought my switch to Dylan was a horrible, awful mistake that would get me a lot more attention than it did) and thereby make schadd look even worse tomorrow. Luckily it didn't turn out that way.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 02:01:40 pm
the other thing i can rationalize this with is that this played out as 3v9 with 2 named townies

Yeah, PRs basically sucked.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 02:07:13 pm
My QT https://quicktopic.com/52/H/CnZnGhMw4bFX
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 03, 2017, 02:21:16 pm
My only condolence is I consistently read WW as town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 02:22:14 pm
s@mes13s
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 03:11:11 pm
Gg! This was a very fun game. Things just worked out very well for us all the way.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 03:13:51 pm
I'm not sure if I've ever made it to the end with this little suspicion on me. Wanted to end the game before WW came strong with another idea.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
oh unrelated but can you post one time outside of forum games?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 03:16:23 pm
oh also flavor was great
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 03:17:34 pm
when thread was locked i thought this might take a minute, he has to do endgame flavor
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 03:26:00 pm
I'm not sure if I've ever made it to the end with this little suspicion on me. Wanted to end the game before WW came strong with another idea.

I was busy :(  I hadn't even gotten to rereading the past days.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 03:40:36 pm
i mean you can do that with any post
I don't think it's the same, there is much more forethought with certain posts, hence much more information in them. Certainly you don't think a big reread-reads post holds the same amount of information value (for others to analyze) as say a random RVS one liner?
i don't see reason to believe either has a larger inherent information value, no
i do earnestly believe this, which should be clear from how this played out. once the game gets too much into politics, falling back on other people's reads, and stacking walls of rereads against each other, my reads start to suck.


i find that d3s & d4s tend to be really scripted/driven by wagon stuff & night actions, which is why bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be. as well, i think that pps's style (and that of other people who try to just mess up the game and throw things off) should be a lot more useful on any other day than d1 (though i do believe that the hammering thing just sucks either way; it fucks up wagons which is nice, but it also fucks up wagon analysis, because after the fact we all notice that we just lynched the, like, lynchbaitiest person on the forum d1)


i don't know what one can really do to scumhunt d3 onward after two town lynches - being transparent about reasoning is how to get read well but at the same time being concise is kind of necessary since everyone inevitably loses interest. i would say be willing to consider everybody, look at things in isolation and avoid confirmation bias but that probably wouldn't have gotten andrew lynched
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2017, 03:49:36 pm
Awesome job to all the scum! I can't believe shcadd got lynched today. I had twm pegged but it's probably because we played as scum together recently and speccy gives you a nice outside perspective. But man eevee had me fooled, he just didn't do anything scummy.

When eevee was saying he found robz/twm scummy for posting about how much they understood if town lynched them I was like "yes! Eevee's got the team nailed". My only worry was robz was could totally be town and pps scum but it was going to be super super hard to tell.

I actually think I lost this for town pretty hard. I played about as bad as I could despite putting in a lot of effort which is hilariously comical. My day one plan to leak being a pr so that scum would kill me was silly because of course with a ub you would never kill a pr night one, you rolecop them...which made my power useless. And schadd/witherweaver were on to eevee day one but I forced us to lynch town instead, and day 2 dylan was just being cautious and was eventually convinced andrew was scum and I was too "in the moment" so I found that switch even scummier than I found andrew in the first place.

Bravo to all, eevee is my vote for MVP but truly you all played a great game.

Also I find it funny dylan/idptg/ash were all town and tried to lynch me day one, that along with my wagoning against town and protecting eevee, scum must have been enjoying day one quite a bit.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 03:52:21 pm
Seems Donald X. caved to popular demand:

http://riograndegames.com/Game/1312-Dominion-Intrigue-3rd-edition

Thank goodness they found new artwork. The old Scout art was the worst part of the card. Wonder if RR will change his avatar to this or keep the old one?
i wish i had seen this to remind myself how good of a scum player you are
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 03:53:54 pm
I always get nervous about pushing a lynch on hunches and being wrong, so I let myself get talked out of a lynch, and it always seems to end up onto a mislynch and off of scum.  I didn't want to lynch either Joseph or Dylan but ended up on both. 
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 03, 2017, 04:24:04 pm
gg wp scum

Can anyone give me a few pointers? This...didn't go well for me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 04:42:48 pm
oh unrelated but can you post one time outside of forum games?
i like the suspense.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:02:07 pm
gg wp scum

Can anyone give me a few pointers? This...didn't go well for me.
i dunno how to improve as town other than play a bunch and really pay attention/remember what towns/scums are more likely to do (and knowing people individually is really helpful, but recall i was able to be briefly right about robz for reasons largely unrelated to robz himself). it's also helpful to play scum at least once. so uh try to do that



oh unrelated but can you post one time outside of forum games?
i like the suspense.
:((((((((((
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2017, 05:03:55 pm
I always get nervous about pushing a lynch on hunches and being wrong, so I let myself get talked out of a lynch, and it always seems to end up onto a mislynch and off of scum.  I didn't want to lynch either Joseph or Dylan but ended up on both.

Yea I was always pretty sure you were town, I just thought you were wrong. I honestly think I was just really cocky and forced town to listen to me.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:06:00 pm
gg wp scum

Can anyone give me a few pointers? This...didn't go well for me.

also definitely don't get too wrapped up in setup analysis, especially in 9++s, is something i learned in M86. this game isn't really the place for logic (l0l) and whatever logical energy you do have should probably go into vote count analysis
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2017, 05:11:55 pm
gg wp scum

Can anyone give me a few pointers? This...didn't go well for me.

What schadd said. Play a lot, remember how individual people act as town/scum, and then be very very active. Had I still been alive I would not have allowed us to lynch schadd based solely on how much he was posting. No matter how many times we go through it, top posters are almost always town. Me/ww/schadd were pretty confirmed town after days 1 and 2. Andrew/eevee were in the middle of the post pack and twm at the low end.

We used to do post counts by day and compare people's activity in day one to day three ect. I when you don't know what to say start asking people questions.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:12:50 pm
twm is a bit of a bad example for post count though lma0
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2017, 05:15:44 pm
Also I have to look at this again but I'm pretty sure this setup is really bad for town. It is almost never solvable unless you lynch the key scum role, the switch is super super powerful, and at least recently we have had roles like restless spirit(negative town utility), bodyguard(very niche), and governor(very niche). Though it is true we have just gotten unlucky with our universal backup in this setup recently.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:17:51 pm
restless spirit ain't no negative town utility
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:21:03 pm
the worst thing that happens is it makes an uninformative lynch if you claim it, so the trick is to just not claim it
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 05:24:58 pm
restless spirit ain't no negative town utility

It is when they hammer the last town for the scum win!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:25:21 pm
you hammered the last town actually
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 05:25:41 pm
how do i remember this better than you
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 03, 2017, 05:25:54 pm
you hammered the last town actually

Oh, right.  He enabled it though.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 08:43:46 pm
I hope, though, we have put to bed the idea that "I get why you think I'm scummy" is some kind of scum tell for me. My post that everyone thought was so scummy, when I was saying yeah, I get it guys, I seem like scum.... that was 100% genuine, and I was town.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 09:17:05 pm
i think if you look back at it, the only person who actually suggested it's scummy from you is eevee. so, l0l
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Eevee on April 03, 2017, 09:31:17 pm
guilty.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 09:54:46 pm
Good point.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2017, 09:55:19 pm
you hammered the last town actually

Oh, right.  He enabled it though.

Our Restless Spirit did hammer the last town in Mafia 90, though. I think I agree with mcmc.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 03, 2017, 10:18:22 pm
omg it's like nobody cares about my nitpicking
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2017, 10:59:18 am
Also I have to look at this again but I'm pretty sure this setup is really bad for town. It is almost never solvable unless you lynch the key scum role, the switch is super super powerful, and at least recently we have had roles like restless spirit(negative town utility), bodyguard(very niche), and governor(very niche). Though it is true we have just gotten unlucky with our universal backup in this setup recently.

I think it is harder to play for town than standard C9++ or asher++. However, I don't think it is scum-favored once some meta has been established. I just think town in general does not have a very good handle on how to use the PRs yet. Like, it should never ever happen that the Governor gets lynched.

I might end up changing the Mafia Strongman because it's really quite annoying to not have the protective roles take effect. Actually a 1-shot Strongman should suffice.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 04, 2017, 11:08:38 am
I might end up changing the Mafia Strongman because it's really quite annoying to not have the protective roles take effect. Actually a 1-shot Strongman should suffice.

I agree. There was basically never a time that we felt using ninja would be better than strongman.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 04, 2017, 11:35:41 am
i think it would have been better to use it n2, though it's kind of silly that switching protective roles and using strongman isn't very redundant (but that's mostly because bodyguard isn't very uh good a lot of the time)
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2017, 11:38:42 am
i think it would have been better to use it n2, though it's kind of silly that switching protective roles and using strongman isn't very redundant (but that's mostly because bodyguard isn't very uh good a lot of the time)
The categories could probably have better names.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 04, 2017, 11:38:51 am
I mean Bodyguard would have been quite good if (1) Strongman didn't ignore it, and (2) Governor had governed himself.  Then we would have had an IC going into Day 2, with the Backup still in tact.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: pingpongsam on April 04, 2017, 11:49:53 am
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 04, 2017, 12:01:28 pm
i think it would have been better to use it n2, though it's kind of silly that switching protective roles and using strongman isn't very redundant (but that's mostly because bodyguard isn't very uh good a lot of the time)
The categories could probably have better names.
celibate roles?
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: schadd on April 04, 2017, 12:10:19 pm
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
and it sucks because predicting lynches and soaking up towncred are two of scumrobz's biggest skills
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Robz888 on April 04, 2017, 12:59:28 pm
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
and it sucks because predicting lynches and soaking up towncred are two of scumrobz's biggest skills

Maybe by being wrong about everything and appearing to not care I was trying to signal to you that I was town, so you wouldn't mislynch me. And it worked! I'm the true MVP, obviously.
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: AndrewisFTTW on April 04, 2017, 01:00:18 pm
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
and it sucks because predicting lynches and soaking up towncred are two of scumrobz's biggest skills

Maybe by being wrong about everything and appearing to not care I was trying to signal to you that I was town, so you wouldn't mislynch me. And it worked! I'm the true MVP, obviously.

Genius. Pure genius. MVP this man!
Title: Re: M96: Fibonacci Mafia (Game over! Scum won!)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 04, 2017, 01:05:51 pm
Damn, wagon analysis reveals Robz to be early on all mislynches and absent on the correct lynch. Too scummy to be scum...
and it sucks because predicting lynches and soaking up towncred are two of scumrobz's biggest skills

Maybe by being wrong about everything and appearing to not care I was trying to signal to you that I was town, so you wouldn't mislynch me. And it worked! I'm the true MVP, obviously.

The problem with such lackadaisical play  is (1) it is easy to emulate, and (2) in this case (specifically on the last day), you getting lynched as scum could still procure a win, because you had a partner left, but you getting lynched as town means you lose the game.  In this case it was actually scummier.