Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: BBL on January 23, 2017, 11:17:19 am
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It has been a while since I saw this topic occurring, so in the light of Empires and the Second Edition Cards, I feel it is time again, to discuss our favorite Dominion Expansions.
I start with my personal list, sorted from bottom (least great) to top (amazing). As with all of these lists, it is highly subjective and based on personal taste. So do not feel bad, if you think, I mistreated your favorite expansion, but write your own list, and point out what you think is awesome about it.
So, here’s my take (quite long, but we have a lot of expansions by now ;) ):
11. Alchemy
Not much to say about it which has not been said before. It is a shame though. I really liked the Potion Concept and the Art is definitely in the upper third of Dominion. But the cards kill it for me – weak (Transmute, Philosopher’s Stone), annoying (Scrying Pool, Familiar, Possession), bland (University, Herbalist) or wheel-spinning (Alchemist, Golem, Scrying Pool & Familiar again). And there is Apprentice & Vineyard, which are pretty cool, but do not save the expansion. Clearly bottom of the list
10. Empires
I really have not warmed up to this expansion yet. What I played in the ShuffleIT Beta confirmed my thoughts when I first saw the cards: Complicated, overpowered and occasionally boring. I can see the appeal in bending the rules of Dominion, as far as possible. But while in theory Landmarks sounded great, in practice they make the game far too unpredictable for non-expert players. I think there is a reason why strategic discussions in this forum died down – with Landmarks being present, it is near impossible to provide general advice anymore that is not contradicted by at least 1 landmark. Since they are handled like events in the ShIT implementation, they also show up far too often for my taste. (Compare this to Colonies or Shelters!)
Then there is the Power Creep. I know, it does not really matter in Dominion, but it just feels so uninspired: +6 Card, double your money, +3 Action Village, $2 Silver, $6 Money, trash as many cards as you like, 500 ways to earn VP, return to your action phase, Cantrip Warehouse, Action/ Treasure Throne Room, … -- this reminds me of one of those fan mods, that give you all the super weapons in the first 5 minutes of play. The whacky art (imo partially worse than the Seaside art) makes it even LOOK like a fan expansion. And then there are a couple of cards that sit on the uncomfortable spot between being potentially helpful, but not really so much (Settlers, Farmer’s Market, Chariot Race, Wild Hunt, Castles, etc.).
Not a fan, though I can see the appeal for super expert players. Number 10.
9. Seaside
One more vote against the trend, but I never quite liked Seaside. The Duration mechanic is awesome, but I feel Adventures explores its full potential way better. Then you have a few dud cards and two of the nastiest attacks in Dominion (Sea Hag and Ghost Ship). There are definitely nice cards (Ambassador, Fishing Village, Lookout, Tactician, Salvager, Wharf), but when setting up a kingdom for a board game night recently, I realized how narrow the space for interesting kingdoms is with Seaside only. Maybe my views are also shaped negatively by grinding through the MF campaign with Seaside, under constant attack of hag, or ghost ship, or both. Contrary to popular opinion, I found the art mostly ok, and I dig the Orange of the duration cards. Still, only number 9.
8. Guilds
Guilds is a very ok expansion that felt like a matching end point for Dominion at its time. There is hardly anything controversial about it, it is just nice small expansion with a little twist. While it does no wonders, I am always happy when one of the Coin tokens pop up, Baker changes the start setup, or Merchant Guild seems a reasonable route to go. Guild cards are a good expansion to any kingdom, though they can hardly exist on their own.
I think it speaks of the quality of Dominion’s design that this perfectly fine and average expansion sits in the lower end of this list.
7. Hinterlands
Also known as the expansion that everyone forgets. Which is not fair: From my perspective, Hinterlands has plenty of fun and interesting cards, which increase the overall quality of every kingdom. Scheme, Jack, Tunnel, Highway, Crossroads, Spice Merchants, Fool’s Gold are all iconic Dominion Cards that invite experimentation with your deck. I also like the art of this set a lot, it’s colorful and friendly and sells the flavor of being in distant lands.
It guess, what it lacks, is the one defining thing that you can put your finger on. Most cards feel like outtakes of other sets, smart takes on existing concepts, but in themselves pretty bland. It is the ‘If you liked Dominion until Cornucopia, here is more’ expansion, a god stuff deck with a lot of slightly above average cards that do not blow your mind. I like it, for what it is, so it’s my number 7.
6. Cornucopia
My favorite small expansion! With only 13 cards (+ Prizes) it has an absolutely amazing hit ration: Hamlet. Tournament. Remake. Young Witch. Horn of Plenty. Fairgrounds. Hunting Party. All of these not only change the way you play significantly, they are also just fun to play out. And the focus on deck variety makes it a nice addition for newcomers with little plan how to build your deck.
5. Prosperity
Initially I wanted to rate it way lower, as on first glance, it follows the same patterns that I complained about with Empires: Here’s your Market with 2 Money instead of 1. Here’s your three-times Throne Room. Here’s Remodel with up to 3 coins. Here’s an overpowered attack that gives money, buy and victory points.
But there are quite a few things different with this expansion, pulling it into the top five. First of all, I think the power increase is way better balanced via the costs than in Empires. In Prosperity, it takes quite some time & smart moves until you reach the point that you can actually gain the power cards. When you reach them, you feel you earned them. Compare this to the Debt cards which come free and usually pay themselves back within a few turns, due to their raw power.
Then, there are Colonies and Platinum, which also help to counterbalance some of the crazier power effects. They also make games inherently more interesting, as they broaden the opportunities and ways to pursue victory. They also make juicy engines viable – there is little more satisfying than purchasing multiple colonies in one turn.
And finally the filler cards are awesome. Usually, when you have a favorite card and you do really remember where it came from, it is Prosperity. Loan, Watchtower, Bishop, City, Mountebank, Peddler – these are usually not the cards that come to your mind, when you think of prosperity, but here they happily sit along classic favorites, like Kings Court, Goons or Bank. Top 5 material, without doubt.
4. Base – Second Edition
I love how base expresses all the core aspects of Dominion and is still fun to play to this day. I admire how the Second Edition managed to do the impossible: Create simple, yet fun and powerful cards, even after a few hundred cards have already been designed. I love Vassal for instance.
With the revision, I feel this set is one of the most polished pieces of Dominion you can get your hands on. It is easy to explain, has little text to read and still offers plenty of opportunities and room for strategy. And its cards are a great fit to any kingdom. Number 4, definitely.
3. Dark Ages
I love trashing, so it is no surprise, that this expansion made it to the top 3. Still, I think Dark Ages is far more than ‘the Trashing expansion’.
First of all, it is the most on-topic expansion that you can think of. There are so many little easter eggs hidden in the mechanics, in the card art, or in the card names. Think of Rats, Pillage / Village, Hermit / Madmen, Squire, etc. There’s not a single card that feels out of place, neither in naming, nor in mechanic (well, maybe Storeroom). The art fits great as well, making this the Dominion expansion which best captures the essence of its theme.
Then there are the cards: Throw in a Dark Ages card into any kingdom and you will see this game transform, but very differently than with any other expansion. The great thing about Dark Ages is that it lets other Expansions shine, while it usually does not create dominant strategies on its own. Ok, there are Cultist and Rebuild, but even these create at least a tough challenge to beat.
And last but not least there are shelters, which again, fundamentally altered the way how Dominion is played, without breaking it. To me, this earns it a place on the podium.
2. Adventures
If Empires is the fan movie, Adventures is the Magnum Opus. It is the best of all previous Dominion Expansion, but taken to a new level. First, the cards: They are amazing from a Design Perspective! I am not even talking about the crazy stuff, like Travellers and Tokens. What I really love about Adventures, is how there are so many ‘simple’ cards with such a huge impact: Take Port, Magpie, Treasure Trove, Raze. All of these feel, as if they could have been part of the first Dominion expansion. They are so familiar, so obvious, but it still feels awesome, when you play them.
This expansion is definitely on the power creep side of the rainbow. Hireling, Coin of the Realm, Royal Carriage are game changer, without doubt. Still, from my personal perspective, these somehow feel ok. Maybe it is, because these cards are basically more reliable versions of cards that existed for a long time – take a few Caravans, Fishing Villages or Throne Rooms and you have basically the same level of power. The traveler line is insane in some regards, but it needs time to set up, has chance to fail and thus feels appropriately introduced when you reach the crazy end.
Clearly, and hardly surprising anyone, Events is what raises this expansion to a top level. Events were the missing pieces that no one realized were missing, until they were introduced. I will not go into detail, because I think everyone knows by now how much of a positive game changer this addition was. Adventures is my personal number 2.
1. Intrigue – Second Edition
My pick for number one is a mix of various feelings. Clearly, there is a bit of love for the underdog. I heard so many bad things about the ‘worst’ big Dominion expansion that I was utterly surprised how good it was, when I finally picked it up, despite the duds that were in the initial release.
First of all, I love the Victory / Action Card subtheme. There are so many cute tricks you can do with these that I always felt a bit sad that it was not explored even further. Also, the set (as an initial beginner set) is so straightforward with its descriptions that it is easy to play with anyone you meet. It is so much easier, to setup a game with Intrigue, than going through the motions of explaining someone Seaside’s duration mechanics or the lengthy texts of Empires.
Then, there are so many ‘Swiss Army Knife’ card of Dominion in this expansion that I simply do not understand people’s disdain for it. I mean, a lot of these have not lost their appeal after 9 expansions. Masquerade, Baron, Bridge, Duke, Steward, Courtyard, Torturer, Ironworks, Conspirator … There are so many staple Dominion cards coming from this expansion that I wonder, if people simply forgot about their origin. I would not want to miss them in my random kingdom.
My fondness for this expansion was always a bit troubled though. While I dig the Scout meme (and I definitely think, Scout deserves a place in the Dominion canon), playing with the duds was no fun, particularly when Saboteur was around.
With the new edition, I feel, this expansion has really earned its position in my favor. Most of the duds are gone and the set gained a few of the most interesting cards in recent times. Replace, Patrol, Lurker and Courtier are easily my favorites, but I like Secret Passage, Mill and Diplomat quite a lot too. Add to this the new, beautiful and diversified Art, and there you have it: Intrigue, Second Edition, clearly my favorite Expansion!
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This thread is awesome! Agree with a lot of your points, and will definitely post here in the future.
You are totally right about Empires. Man, I thought I was the only one!
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Those 11 expansions you mentioned are also some of my favorites.
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10. Empires
I really have not warmed up to this expansion yet. What I played in the ShuffleIT Beta confirmed my thoughts when I first saw the cards: Complicated, overpowered and occasionally boring. I can see the appeal in bending the rules of Dominion, as far as possible. But while in theory Landmarks sounded great, in practice they make the game far too unpredictable for non-expert players. I think there is a reason why strategic discussions in this forum died down – with Landmarks being present, it is near impossible to provide general advice anymore that is not contradicted by at least 1 landmark. Since they are handled like events in the ShIT implementation, they also show up far too often for my taste. (Compare this to Colonies or Shelters!)
Not a fan, though I can see the appeal for super expert players. Number 10.
OK, I'm going to defend Empires here a bit, though obviously—as a playtester—I am biased.
I think this idea that only "super expert" Dominion players like Empires is at least wrong and possibly completely backwards. The reason I say this is that right now Empires has the highest average rating on BoardGameGeek of any Dominion product. And all the BGG reviews I've seen of it are glowing, with lots of "my favorite expansion". Now I'm assuming that the average BGG user is a hobby gamer, but not a super expert Dominion player. That's—at the very least—true of the people who wrote the reviews I mentioned.
I have had at least one person on Shuffle iT tell me that they don't like the new Empires stuff. So it's not as if you're alone in disliking Empires, but it sounds like the backlash here is from a subset of hardcore Dominion players, not from what I would consider "casual" players.
I guess I don't see Empires cards as being that complicated, on the whole. There are some outliers, like Villa. I think Villa was totally worth doing, though. A village you can buy after the fact; that's pretty novel. Which cards do you feel are too complex?
The claim that Landmarks make the game too "unpredictable" for non-expert players doesn't make any sense to me. If anything, it's expert players who have their game thrown by Landmarks. Novice players are just like, oh another way to score points, nice. They don't have a firm grasp of Dominion strategy to shatter. And it seems unlikely that Landmarks are to blame for any lack of strategy discussion. Yeah, Landmarks can shift how good a card is, but so can the other 9 cards in the kingdom. And yet that hasn't prevented people from talking about cards up until now. OK, I'll admit that Landmarks can shift the game more dramatically than most Kingdom cards, but for me that's all upside. Even if they do somehow slow down strategy discussion, they make actual games of Dominion much more varied and interesting. It's not always just, build the most efficient engine with the cards available. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what bothers some "expert" players; Empires takes them too far out of their comfort zone. But that's just 100% conjecture on my part.
Perhaps what we disagree on is this definition of an "expert player". You're implying in your post that you're not an expert player. That may be true in the sense that you're not a top-10 player or whatever. But you're a player who knows all the cards well enough to make a detailed ranking of every single expansion. You are at the very least a hardcore Dominion player. I would call you an expert.
Then there is the Power Creep. I know, it does not really matter in Dominion, but it just feels so uninspired: +6 Card, double your money, +3 Action Village, $2 Silver, $6 Money, trash as many cards as you like, 500 ways to earn VP, return to your action phase, Cantrip Warehouse, Action/ Treasure Throne Room, … -- this reminds me of one of those fan mods, that give you all the super weapons in the first 5 minutes of play. The whacky art (imo partially worse than the Seaside art) makes it even LOOK like a fan expansion. And then there are a couple of cards that sit on the uncomfortable spot between being potentially helpful, but not really so much (Settlers, Farmer’s Market, Chariot Race, Wild Hunt, Castles, etc.).
I guess it remains to be seen how much of this is people still getting used to the cards, and how much is legitimate power creep. Bear in mind that this is the first expansion in a long time for which the playtesters did not have isotropic to use for testing.
But I think a lot of this might just be perception and confirmation bias. I mean one of the things you mention for power creep is a +3 Action village. But Port is already basically a +3 Action village, just split into two cards. And it's $1 cheaper. Yet you praise Port in your Adventures section.
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The idea of needing to "warm up" to an expansion doesn't compute for me. I always love new expansions, and then eventually "cool off" on them--usually when the next expansion comes out. If I were to rank expansions, I'd probably put them in more or less reverse chronological order.
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The idea of needing to "warm up" to an expansion doesn't compute for me. I always love new expansions, and then eventually "cool off" on them--usually when the next expansion comes out. If I were to rank expansions, I'd probably put them in more or less reverse chronological order.
For me it is a combination of the two. I really like a new expansion when it comes out, with the exception of Empires and Adventures. So far I've warmed up to the former.
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The idea of needing to "warm up" to an expansion doesn't compute for me. I always love new expansions, and then eventually "cool off" on them--usually when the next expansion comes out. If I were to rank expansions, I'd probably put them in more or less reverse chronological order.
For me it is a combination of the two. I really like a new expansion when it comes out, with the exception of Empires and Adventures. So far I've warmed up to the former.
Do you mean the latter?
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Although I do think there is a bit of powercreep in empires (to the extend that that word has meaning), I also don't regret it. Empires has increase the number of cards that are always interesting, which is good. And the second edition cards has decreased the number of cards that are almost always boring. This is also good.
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I'd like to chime in that there is probably less strategy discussion here because a lot of the regulars are talking strategy on Discord nowadays.
My ranking insofar as rankings mean anything:
10. Hinterlands
9. Alchemy
8. Dark Ages
7. Intrigue 2nd Ed
6. Adventures
5. Prosperity
4. Seaside
3. Base 2nd Ed
2. Empires
1. Cornucopia + Guilds
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My rankings are:
11. Hinterlands
10. Seaside
9. Alchemy
8. Base 2nd Ed
7. Prosperity
6. Guilds
5. Intrigue 2nd Ed
4. Empires
3. Dark Ages
2. Adventures
1. Cornucopia
But this is my favourite expansions and not the ones I think are stronger/more interesting to other players. I love and always loved and will love Cornucopia. Better have it and no single one else, then all but Cornucopia.
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My raking:
1- Empires, Adventures, Intrigue (2nd), Seaside, Cornucopia, Guilds
3...- Hinterlands, Prosperity, Base (2nd)
10- Alchemy
Adventures would be on #1 by itself here with the big tie on #2 if it weren't for all the added complexity.
Alchemy is the only set I don't have IRL (but I do use a printed out copy of Apprentice sometimes).
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I'd like to chime in that there is probably less strategy discussion here because a lot of the regulars are talking strategy on Discord nowadays.
I know this is a bit offtopic, but: why? What's wrong with strategy discussion on a forum?
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As stated initially, it was not my intention to step on anyone's toes or devalue the hard work that went into Empires. I think it is a good expansion, just like Seaside is a good expansion and I think it is a miracle of design and creativity that there were still enough card concepts left for a huge expansion of such quality. It just did not click for me. I guess to some extent this comes down to the Art and the theme. The art not only has its quality issues (I am looking at you, Gladiator), it feels also rather dark. What kind of empire is this, where the Bustling Village looks like the entrance to Sleepy Hollow, where the City Quarter has seen too many Death Carts and where the Fortune is a box of pickles? (Ok, it is probably the one where Fairgrounds take place). There is so much sepia and sunset. Maybe it's a brilliant move to depict an empire built on debt, but it just turns me off.
I definitely take back some of the generalization I made: Yes, Empires is not complicated in terms of Card text. I think if you play it with Base only, it is totally playable with starters. Debt, Landmarks & Victory Points are a far easier concepts to explain than i.e. Duration Cards. Landmarks is even better for starters: With them being present, there's a good chance to win the game, just because you happen to have a full set of treasures, or an all Coppers deck. So it might really be that this expansion is harder to chew for long-term Dominion players, which need to reset their line of thinking. I personally felt overwhelmed by that, but this is different for every player, as it was pointed out.
Same for the Strategy discussion: I do not think, it is Empires' fault or anything. The trend (if it exists at all) might be caused by Discord as well, as the natural course of Internet Communities and simply having reached a critical mass of cards where any given Combo has a really small likelihood to appear. Compare this, to the very first 'Workshop / Gardens' articles and you see how far we have come.
Regarding Power Creep, or not: I also do not think, that Empires break the game's balance (which is near impossible in Dominion anyway), or jumps the shark, or anything. Maybe it is the fact, HOW well balanced the cards are which turns me off. You know, I prefer a card that says '+ 3 Cards' over one with the same price that says '+7 Cards, then discard down to 8, trash 1 Card from your hand and gain a Silver'. (I am exaggerating, obviously). Both cards are roughly balanced in power level (well, as good, as a made up example can be, so please don't nitpick). The latter is definitely the more interesting card which can perform some really nice tricks under a couple of circumstances. It has a lot strategic depth and at the same time it is also easy to explain, as it uses only core concepts. Still, I do not like it. It is such a roller-coaster to play: Do something awesome, then do something you do not like, but then gain a bonus, which is not a bonus under certain circumstance and take a punishment, which again is a bonus under certain circumstances. I prefer straight-on effects, that make my limbic system happy, without triggering unhappy feelings. Someone wrote that Empires is the 'Eat your Vegetables' expansion and this is exactly how it feels. I would rather have less powerful effects with less downsides attached, than having to go through a lot of hoops for huge effects which then turn out to be not so strong anyway in the end. But again, these are personal preferences, not eternal judgements.
I am really happy to see the lists of other people and their preferences. Seeing that Intrigue went up in favor, pleases me as a fan of this expansion and I can see a lot of love for Empires, putting my own thoughts in perspective. I am quite surprised about the deviation regarding Seaside. I always thought, I was the outlier here, but some rate it very high, while some (including me) rate it rather low. I'd love to hear more.
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The love Cornucopia gets is somewhat weird to me. Yes there are some great cards in there, but people seem to overlook that it also has two complete duds in Harvest and Fortune Teller. In a small expansion, that is quite a lot. Plus Farming Village is the most boring Village variant ever.
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The love Cornucopia gets is somewhat weird to me. Yes there are some great cards in there, but people seem to overlook that it also has two complete duds in Harvest and Fortune Teller. In a small expansion, that is quite a lot. Plus Farming Village is the most boring Village variant ever.
Yes, but there are much than one card in top 10 of mine. Jester, HoP, HP, Tournament, Hamlet, Menagerie. I love each one.
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Tournanement is horrible though
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11- Base
10- Prosperity
9- Dark Ages
8- Intrigue
7-Hinterlands
6- Cornucopia
5- Seaside
4- Guilds
3- Alchemy
2- Adventures
1- Empires
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Since I know you've all been waiting with baited breath for my ranking, here it is.
1. Cornucopia
Back when I made a poll of everyone's favorite Dominion set, this won the poll and came second (behind) Adventures in the bracket. It's easy to see why- pretty complex cards like Hunting Party and Jester, but no cards anyone hates (except for Tournament, which isn't as bad as some of the others). It gives you some of the best value of any small set, because they all have a gimmick (Potions, Coin tokens or Prizes) but Cornucopia also gives you 13, rather than 12 kingdom cards. It is very much a more popular Alchemy: encourages long action chains and some exotic cards, but more newbie-friendly because of the variety theme. Cornucopia also has some of best art of all the expansions.
2. Dark Ages
These next few are hard to rank. I guess Dark Ages has to go here, though. Awesome value for money, plenty of new card types (Spoils, Ruins, Shelters, Looters, Knights), pretty decent art and oh yeah the flavor. Dark Ages has some of the best flavor. It plays so much differently from the other sets, much grittier, poorer and, well, darker. It's like watching Star Wars and then Aliens. The cards are mostly all well-named, usefull but not overly strong and feel in general more balanced then maybe any other set.
3. Prosperity
We all love Prosperity for the long, insanely powerful action chains, lots of (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png), big attacks and double-digit point scores. Still, as BBL pointed out, the best cards are not easy to get. They may be some of of the strongest cards in Dominion, but they take some skill to acquire use to their full potential.
4. Adventures
I must say I've really warmed up to this one. At first, I wasn't sold on the events, especially the designer card ones, like Pathfinders, Train, Seaway and Lost Arts. Events are neat though, and I've come to appreciate how they can subtly change a kingdom. They can also be great for themed kingdoms and specially built kingdoms in general. The flavor is also pretty good, the art is above average and despite what others say, I feel like pretty much all the cards are balanced, much like Dark Ages.
5. Hinterlands
This one is always near and dear my heart because it was my first ever Dominion expansion. I like some of the exotic silver-based strategies, and the flavor it neat, too. I think it does a really nice job being the Alt-VP set, with Farmlands, Tunnel and Silk Road being potentially really awesome but require some planning to use correctly.
6. Guilds
I was at first rather underwhelmed by this one. It got better, though. The coin tokens are cool and tie into the money theme well, as you decide when to save and when to spend, as opposed to just spending what you have. The flavor is definitely there, and the whole expansion it is pretty simple to teach to knew players.
6. Seaside
This is still a fantastic set. The durations are neat, some of the cards are among my favorites (Ghost Ship, Treasury) and it is pretty beginner-friendly. I guess it drops the ball for me on the 1) flavor, which doesn't seem as compelling as some of the other ones, 2) Art, which is some of the worst overall, and 3) the blandness yet raw power of some of the cards, like Wharf and Fishing Village.
7. Alchemy
You must all be surprised to see it ranked this high. Yes yes; Scrying Poop, Possession Familiar, Transmute, Herbalist. The art is amazing, though, all the cards are exotic and high-skill (which I like) the flavor and card names are cool and prominent, and Golem and Apprentice are real gems.
8. Empires
For many of the reasons listed by BBL: Power Creep, Landmarks making strategy advice harder to give. Also, I feel like some of the cards are just tweaks of previous concepts, like Plunder (basically Monument). I do like split piles, though, and the art on Defiled Shrine and Annex is pretty great. Still a great game. Base game is really the only expansion I wouldn't be able to play with forever by itself.
9. Intrigue
I don't have this one, but I guess it will go here.
10. Base Game
Not much to say. Don't have 2nd Edition yet, but mainly pretty bland. I prefer exotic but with some bad/annoying cards (like Alchemy) rather than kinda boring.
Wow, you actually read to the end?
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11- Base
10- Prosperity
9- Dark Ages
8- Intrigue
7-Hinterlands
6- Cornucopia
5- Seaside
4- Guilds
3- Alchemy
2- Adventures
1- Empires
#alchemylove
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My feelings:
Most Fond
Adventures: My favorite expansion. I love the durations, reserve cards, and events. There's so much innovation, but I wouldn't want to go back to Dominion before Adventures. The power balance is good: there are hardly any duds, though Page is a little too good for how monolithic it is.
Cornucopia: So many of my favorite cards are in this little expansion. Sure, there are a couple duds, but I love Hunting Party, Menagerie, Remake, Tournament, Horn of Plenty, Horse Traders, ... The mini-theme of caring about the contents of your hand is really cool; it makes you feel so accomplished to set up activated Menageries!
Fond
Prosperity: There are a bunch of cool cards in this expansion: Watchtower, Peddler, Bishop, Quarry, Bank, etc... Even the overpowered trio of Mountebank, Goons, and King's Court aren't so bad as far as game-dominating cards go. Platinum and Colony are cool additions that really reward engines. I used to be even more fond of this expansion, but the limited trashing in the set irks me. Forge and Expand are too expensive to use effectively on starting cards. Bishop helps your opponent thin. Trade Route is weak. Mint and Loan are awkward as the only trashers.
Empires: I have mixed feelings about Empires. It is audacious. Empires changes the game of Dominion so much, which is exciting and scary at the same time. Games often take a lot longer when Empires is involved, because there is so much more VP at play. Empires definitely has the most complexity of any expansion - by far. But, that complexity is probably necessary at this point. The power balance is Empires is good. The strongest card-shaped things are the least monolithic (e.g. Donate, Overlord, Temple).
Guilds: Coin tokens and overpay smooth buys, which is really awesome. The cards aren't the most memorable, but they have a good power balance and fun factor.
Hinterlands: This set has a bunch of solid cards: Scheme, Jack of all Trades, Spice Merchant, Stables, Border Village. The on-gain theme is one of the least noticeable expansion themes, but it does expand the strategic space. There are some duds, though.
Dominion (2nd): The first edition of base Dominion had too many duds. With the second edition, its a really solid set that I have no reservation recommending to prospective players. The vanilla cards are elegant.
Intrigue (2nd): So, Intrigue is the meanest set: Torturer, Minion, Swindler. There are also some power balance issues remaining in the 2nd edition (mostly, too many strong cards!). Still, there are a bunch of great cards in the set: Courtyard, Masquerade, Steward, Conspirator, Bridge, Upgrade. And the new cards are really cool: Mill, Courtier, Diplomat, Secret Passage are new favorites of mine.
Less Fond
Seaside: Durations are really cool. And some of the cards in this set are cool and unique: Lighthouse, Fishing Village, Caravan, Ghost Ship, Tactician. However, this set has one of the worst power balances. There are complete duds like Pearl Diver, Navigator, and Pirate Ship. And then there are game-warping cards like Ambassador and Wharf. There are power balance oddities that are unseen in the newer sets (like Wharf getting +buy instead of Merchant Ship).
Dark Ages: So, Shelters are a great addition. And there are a lot of cool, quirky cards in the set: Forager, Hermit, Market Square, Fortress, Wandering Minstrel, Counterfeit, Hunting Grounds. However, Dark Ages has a major flaw in the form of three powerful and monolithic cards: Cultist, Rebuild, and Urchin. These cards often make any kingdom they appear in less interesting. There are also a lot of limited cards, like Beggar, Rats, Death Cart, and Pillage; but these aren't so bad; you can feel clever when you use them. Gaining from the trash and on-trash benefits can be a little wonky.
Alchemy: An alternate resource is a neat idea, and I like how most of the Potion-cost cards are designed to be bought in bulk. There are also some cool cards in the set: Apprentice, Apothecary, University, Vineyards, Golem. But there also some duds (Transmute, Philosopher's Stone, Herbalist), and other issues (Scrying Pool's attack, Familiar's cost, and Possession). Possession is my least favorite card.
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Prosperity was my first expansion, and I would also say that is my favourite one. I really like the treasure theme and the strong expensive cards like King's Court, Goons, and Grand Market. I also like Bank, Venture, Vault, and Watchtower.
I love Cornucopia as well. Remake, Menagerie, and Jester are just fantastic. Yes, there are some duds, but the other cards are good enough to overshadow that. I don't mind the power level of tournament. Yesterday I played a game using mostly Cornucopia cards. It one one of the most fun games I have ever played.
The coin tokens in Guilds are interesting. Herald, Baker, Stonemason, and Doctor are the highlights for me.
I received Hinterlands and Seaside for Christmas. So far my family has been enjoying the Seaside the most, because of the Duration cards. They're still in the "Pirate Ship is broken" stage though. I haven't played with all of the cards yet, so I'm still deciding which set I enjoy more.
I don't own Intrigue, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Adventures, or Empires yet. I'll probably get Intrigue next, to keep down the complexity level for the sake of the people I normally play with.
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cornucopia
adventures
empires
guilds
base
intrigue
hintermans
seaside
prosperity
dork ages
alchemy
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Prosperity was my first expansion, and I would also say that is my favourite one. I really like the treasure theme and the strong expensive cards like King's Court, Goons, and Grand Market. I also like Bank, Venture, Vault, and Watchtower.
I love Cornucopia as well. Remake, Menagerie, and Jester are just fantastic. Yes, there are some duds, but the other cards are good enough to overshadow that. I don't mind the power level of tournament. Yesterday I played a game using mostly Cornucopia cards. It one one of the most fun games I have ever played.
The coin tokens in Guilds are interesting. Herald, Baker, Stonemason, and Doctor are the highlights for me.
I received Hinterlands and Seaside for Christmas. So far my family has been enjoying the Seaside the most, because of the Duration cards. They're still in the "Pirate Ship is broken" stage though. I haven't played with all of the cards yet, so I'm still deciding which set I enjoy more.
I don't own Intrigue, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Adventures, or Empires yet. I'll probably get Intrigue next, to keep down the complexity level for the sake of the people I normally play with.
First, intrigue 2nd edition is a must buy if you're thinking of getting intrigue next.
Second, in multi-player games, pirate ship can be very effective. I know there isn't much love for it here. In a 3 player game against my brother and my wife, she managed to get her pirate ship up to +$7 by like turn 7, then ran away with the game.
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Second, in multi-player games, pirate ship can be very effective. I know there isn't much love for it here. In a 3 player game against my brother and my wife, she managed to get her pirate ship up to +$7 by like turn 7, then ran away with the game.
Just to make sure, you guys are playing such that if a Pirate Ship trashes a treasure from 2 opponents, it still only goes up by 1 coin, right?
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I know 'to each his own' and all that, but it's just really hard for me to fathom how much effect the art has on how much people like cards or sets. For me, the art is nice to have, but it makes almost no difference on how much I like or dislike cards*.
(*Originally, I put that it makes no difference at all, but I had to add the 'almost'. I can't deny the art on certain cards like Jester makes me like it even more than I would otherwise.)
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I'll preface this by saying I love every expansion, and there aren't really any cards that make me upset. Some might be "blah" but I don't hate any of them.
1. Empires: This might be because it's brand new (I just got it this Christmas), but I am giddy about this expansion. I love alternative victory points and cards that encourage you to play in non-traditional ways, and Landmarks are this to the nth degree. This expansion also seems to encourage the people I play with to try a wider range of divergent strategies rather than just mirror each other. Finally some cards create new decisions: how long do I spin my wheels buying groundskeepers? Do I uncover the next card in this split pile? Will playing this gathering card help my opponent more than me? Etc.
2. Guilds/Cornucopia: I might even put Guilds here by itself, but combining it with Cornucopia makes it an easy number 2. I love coin tokens and Guilds has a bunch of cards that can do so many different things without having to list 40 different options on the card: (Herald, Stonemason, Butcher). I like Cornucopia for many of the reasons others have listed, and I even like Tournament, despite how swingy it can be.
3. Dark Ages: I just love how combo-y and bizarre this set can be. I even don't really mind the cards people love to hate here. Yes, urchin is almost a necessity, but it doesn't obsolete other decisions you make throughout the game. Rebuild can obsolete those decisions, but a Rebuild game is such a different way of playing dominion that I like it. Even in mirrors there can still be decisions, and beating rebuild with an engine or strong BM can feel great. Okay, maybe I would end up preferring the "or" version of Cultist, but I've never tried it.
4. Prosperity: This is the beginning of the solid expansions that I really like, but don't really get me crazy-excited when I think about them (just normal excited-for-dominion excited). What puts this above other expansions in this tier would be Colony/Platinum, victory tokens, and the additional non-attack interaction in the set (all even more reasons why I love Empires).
5. Hinterlands: Hinterlands is good. It doesn't really strike me one way or the other. Maybe the theme of on-buy/gain is a little too invisible? Or didn't seem as innovative/mind-blowing as other expansions' themes? I really do like a lot of these cards, but they aren't the ones I think of when I think "OMG I love that card!" Okay, I do really like farmland.
6. Seaside: Durations are super cool, but I don't think the ones in Seaside really change the way you play that significantly; they're just good cards (Tactician is the stand-out from the set in this regard). The set also has a few duds such as Pirate Ship which is especially problematic because it can look so powerful to newbies. I'm especially disappointed by Embargo. It's such a cool idea that doesn't really seem worth it in practice. Also, it requires a bunch of tokens just for it. :(
7. Alchemy: I really want this to be higher. I think potions are a really cool idea, and I love a lot of these cards, but I do think I'd like some of these cards more with some tweaks (scrying pool without the spying, a limit of one turn for possession, maybe a +buy on Phil Stone?) That being said, all of them are cool enough that I'd miss them. Even the weak cards are still cool. Oh, transmute, how I wish you weren't bad. I think this is also hurt by being a small expansion. I'm in the camp of really wishing we could get an alchemy 2nd edition (bigger and tweaked), but I get why it makes no sense to do it. :'(
8. Adventures: I really think I should like this expansion more than I have so far. Events are a wonderful inclusion in the game, but now that Empires suggests they might be evergreen, this expansion is no longer artificially inflated by them. I play most often IRL, and still regularly introduce the game to new players. As a result, I find the various tokens in this expansion too fiddly. Even the reserves can feel a bit fiddly sometimes.
9. Intrigue: I really like cards that can play a variety of roles, but I generally don't like using choices to do that. I think it removes some of the moments of discovery or epiphany that this game creates. I do really like the high percentage of alternate victory cards in the set, it's just that since almost all other expansions have them too, they don't affect this expansion's rank that much.
I think my opinion on Intrigue will greatly improve with the second edition, though. Some of the removals were great: Saboteur just felt bad for everyone including the person who played it; Secret Chamber was weak, the reaction was really fiddly, and it's outshone by other discard for benefit cards; and Scout was both boring and weak. Additionally, I really love some of the new cards although I have very limited experience playing with them. Diplomat and Lurker especially.
10. Dominion: The base game serves its purpose really well: introducing the game with a bunch of simple and straightforward cards. I also love how a bunch of the cards train you to become better at deckbuilders just by existing. That being said, I think this is the only expansion I can become bored of playing. The range of different decks it enables seems more limited. It also included a lot of duds. This is remedied by the second edition, but the replacements are just as vanilla as the rest of the set. I get why that's the case; I just don't get excited about it.
I know 'to each his own' and all that, but it's just really hard for me to fathom how much effect the art has on how much people like cards or sets. For me, the art is nice to have, but it makes almost no difference on how much I like or dislike cards.
I agree for the most part. Disliking a card because of its art or theme seems bizarre to me. That said, good or fun art can make me like a card even more. I especially like the conventions and callbacks that have developed in Dominion art and names. Things like Scouting Party or how cards named after small animals (Rats/Magpie) tend to multiply and ghosts place cards back on the deck (I wish Wild Hunt was named differently as a result).
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I know 'to each his own' and all that, but it's just really hard for me to fathom how much effect the art has on how much people like cards or sets. For me, the art is nice to have, but it makes almost no difference on how much I like or dislike cards.
I agree for the most part. Disliking a card because of its art or theme seems bizarre to me. That said, good or fun art can make me like a card even more. I especially like the conventions and callbacks that have developed in Dominion art and names. Things like Scouting Party or how cards named after small animals (Rats/Magpie) tend to multiply and ghosts place cards back on the deck (I wish Wild Hunt was named differently as a result).
Yes. Card names and flavor I really do appreciate. It's just the art that I don't care about as much.
PS: The Wild Hunt are not typical ghosts. They might not even be ghosts as all, but fairies or demigods.
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Picking my favorite Dominion expansion is like asking me which child is my favorite.
My son is an only child...Empires.
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Picking my favorite Dominion expansion is like asking me which child is my favorite.
My son is an only child...Empires.
And the answer is the same either way- the best-looking one.
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1. Hinterlands
2. Intrigue (2nd ed)
3. Seaside
These three expansions are Dominion to me. When I play with friends (which is much less often than it used to be -- people are moving on) I now prefer to randomize among these three expansions (plus a few select cards from base Dominion). Intrigue 2nd edition removed what I disliked about Intrigue and made it even better.
4. Cornucopia
5. Guilds
Both of these small expansions have grown on me. Cornucopia because Tournament is no longer as much of an outlier when stacked against the new crazy from the recent few expansions. Guilds because I initially hated the idea of more tokens, but the cards are just so well implemented and so smooth to play. Coin tokens add enough to win me over. And Masterpiece is great! I love overpay.
6. Empires
7. Prosperity
8. Dark Ages
9. Dominion (2nd ed)
Pluses and minuses in each of these. The novelty of Colony/Platinum has worn off. I have grown to greatly dislike VP tokens and almost never play with them IRL. Dark Ages has some of my least favorite cards and I have cooled to the trashy theme. Dominion 2nd ed still doesnt have a ton of replay value alone. However, there are some great cards in each expansion.
10. Adventures
Gah. Just no. I greatly dislike the tokens, most of the events, and the Travellers. Only a handful of cards appeal to me. This expansion will likely never land on my shelf. I even avoided buying it on MF and would have avoided it on SiT if it wasn't packaged with Empires.
11. Alchemy
If you've ever played this in person, you know how slow and generally not fun most of these cards are to play. Online it's better, but this is another expansion I have zero desire to own.
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Second, in multi-player games, pirate ship can be very effective. I know there isn't much love for it here. In a 3 player game against my brother and my wife, she managed to get her pirate ship up to +$7 by like turn 7, then ran away with the game.
Just to make sure, you guys are playing such that if a Pirate Ship trashes a treasure from 2 opponents, it still only goes up by 1 coin, right?
Yeah, we've been doing that wrong lol. I rescind my defense, that card is weak.
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I'd probably rate them in order of release (ascending), though Adventures might edge out Empires.
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Alright let's do this.
1. Adventures: This expansion came out during the height of my Dominion enthusiasm (bordering on addiction), when I spent my free time reading all the pages on the Dominion Strategy Wiki, so it's only natural that it became my favorite. It contains a couple of very cool cards to build strong, exciting and original decks, including the Travellers, and it helps balancing engines and BM alike with Distant Lands and Port on one hand, and Treasure Trove and Gear on the other hand.
2. Prosperity: Colonies, in combination with those big expensive cards, make the game last longer, which is cool. I sometimes find that games on great engine boards end too quickly, when there's suddenly a half-empty Province pile while you're still busy building your awesome engine, and you didn't get all the satisfaction you need. Prosperity helps to get every ounce of satisfaction out of the Dominion experience, which is why I still love it so much even though it's one of the older expansions.
3. Guilds: After the top 2, there's a small gap, but Guilds is still really awesome even if it's small. It contains exciting cards such as Merchant Guild, Stonemason, Soothsayer (one of the few junkers I like) and of course my alltime favorite: Herald. Overpay and coin tokens are two amazing mechanics that really help to spice up the game.
4. Dark Ages: Even though there are relatively fewer cards I'm amazed by in this expansion, I really appreciate Dark Ages for the overall feel. It really is dark, and many of the cards are thematically medieval. Plus, Shelters are a cool twist on the otherwise bland starting deck, even though they could have been even more original.
5. Dominion (Base): Let's get the obvious downsides out of the way first: it's often not so interesting for advanced players by itself, and there are a ton of duds (that were removed in the second edition, but I'm not sure if I'll ever get my hands on one). Still, it deserves to be in the top half. For one thing, it introduced most of us to the Dominion world. But more importantly, it is a very helpful set to own if you're looking for simple cards. I personally don't own a Base set anymore (gave it to my ex when we were still dating), and sometimes I miss it when I want to introduce the game to new players. The 'first game' board is such an amazing setup for first-time players and really helps to kindle their enthusiasm. And if you want to test out a couple of new cards or combos you don't often play with, sometimes you want to put a vanilla Village or Smithy or Market in the kingdom. The Dominion universe couldn't exist without these simple ideas.
6. Hinterlands: Fairly middle of the road. It's still an amazing expansion, let's be honest - Dominion is just that great. But the others mentioned above are better. Moving on.
7. Empires: I haven't played with it a lot, but I don't think it's going to become one of my favorites. The main thing I have against it is that there are just too many concepts introduced, too many different ideas implemented, and too much deviation from the basics of Dominion. I don't think the Dominion world was ready for Landmarks AND Events AND VP tokens AND Debt tokens AND Durations AND split piles AND Gathering all in the same expansion. It's just a bit too much. Nevertheless, I don't want to criticize it too much, because some of these concepts by themselves (especially more cards with VP tokens and Landmarks - alternative ways for scoring, basically) are absolutely fantastic. And the expensive Debt cards - City Quarter, Royal Blacksmith and Overlord - are all very cool to play with despite the fact that I'm not too fond of the Debt mechanic. Basically, the immense diversity in Empires is kind of a two-edged sword.
8. Cornucopia: The versatility theme is okay and the individual cards are pretty cool, but it doesn't really feel like much of an actual full set, and that's not just because of its size (because Guilds and Alchemy have a way more pronounced identity).
9. Intrigue: It's fairly similar in both its upsides and downsides to base Dominion, but with both the upsides and the downsides less pronounced. The cards are not quite as vanilla and simple, but there also aren't quite as many obvious duds. In terms of being a base set, the actual Base set clearly wins, and in terms of being an expansion, most of the other expansions (except maybe the bottom two) win. In that sense, Intrigue is stuck in the middle - not bad for either, but compared to the rest, not amazing either.
10. Seaside: Yawn. It's okay, I guess? But it's rather boring. I wouldn't buy it.
11. Alchemy: I really don't mind the Potion concept at all. In fact, I think it's pretty cool. It's just that, like I've said in another topic recently, almost half of the cards in this set (5 or 6 out of 12) have a serious design flaw. So yeah, there's only one placement possible for Alchemy, even though the other cards are mostly very cool (I still love University, Golem, Apothecary and Apprentice).
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My opinion on Adventures would probably be higher if the quality was better. I can live with the thin cards but my tokens are horrible.
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To everyone making lists, feel free to rank Base and Base (2nd Edition) separately. It would be really interesting to see a consensus of just how much people think the changes improved the sets.
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I'm very surprised to see that there are many people on this forum that actually dislike some of the expansions. To me, all expansions are fun to play with, adds very cool cards and have only very few flaws.
That's how I rank today :
1- Cornucopia - I like basically all cards except Tournament (but still, I sometimes find pleasure in using the prizes in specific contexts) and Hunting party in IRL plays. Now that a lot of new expansions are released, my excitement about cornucopia diminished a little but I still feel a nostalgic love for this little expansion.
2- Adventures - I do not like everything in this set (I'm not too fond of travellers, not very excited by all events and I don't get why caravan guard is so pointlessly weird), but the things I like, I really like them. Reserve cards adds lot of very interesting tactical decisions to the game. Guide and Transmogrify are awesome. Lost arts, Pathfinding, Training and Seaway allows to reinvent the cards in a creative ways (and that's what made me love dominion : the creativity of the deck-building concept). And Swamp Hag and Haunted woods are very balanced and brillantly designed attack cards. So this set is really interesting.
3- Dark Ages - DA have very interesting kingdom cards that plays in very unique ways. I'm thinking about Procession, Rats, Fortress, Poor house, Death Cart, Rogue or Beggar… I'm very disappointed by Cultist, I think it could have been better designed, like, with no chaining effect I would be very happy. Using the ruins for only three cards is also disappointing. And the fact that every game with knights turns into knight battle… another disappointed. But overall, this set is very nice.
4- Empires - I'm still discovering this expansion, I haven't even tried all the cards yet. But Landmarks is the reason why I rank this expansion high. I love alternative ways to gain victory points. I think some of these landmarks could have been old simple alt vp cards (palace, tower) and I miss these alt-vp that creates so interesting assymetric games. But the interaction around VP added by some landmarks and gathering cards is very interesting as well and adds more hard decisions. I'm less convinced by the new kingdom cards, but as I said, it's still too new for me.
5- Hinterlands - I like how this set made Big Money better again, and more interesting to play. A lot of cards in this set involve very subtle tactical decisions. I particularly enjoy Tunnel and Develop.
6- Seaside - I find the duration cards introduced in this set very fun to play, especially tactician and Outpost. Overall I like a lot of cards in this set, for different reasons. Even the simplest cards like Bazaar or Warehouse.
7- Intrigue 1st and 2nd edition - Both Intrigue have a bunch of interesting cards. I always enjoy playing with Conspirator, Bridge, Baron, Mining Village, Duke, or… Coppersmith :( from the new edition cards, I like Mill, Replace, Diplomat and Lurker. These 4 could almost comfort me for the loss of coppersmith. Almost.
9- Guilds - I like a lot of the cards there, with no real preference. Coin tokens and overpay are nice concept that could have been used more, in a bigger expansion. Overpay especially is not very well used, it's just a small bonus for herald or doctor that rarely matters (and I really dislike the chance factor on doctor).
10- Prosperity - A cool set. My favorite cards are the $7 cost. I'm less excited by the rest and I dislike Mountebank and Goons because they are simply too strong and almost always worth it. And trade route is rarely more than just a weak trasher that sometimes provides money.
11- Dominion 2nd edition - Base game is fine, but I like expansions even more. Also, witch and chapel are too dominant but I'm ok with that, because new players won't necessarly see it and knowing that they are dominant don't make the game unintersting. The 2nd edition cards are fine as replacement for the 1st edition cards.
12- Alchemy - There are few problems about alchemy : the attack on scrying pool, the cost of familiar, the weakness of transmute and that's already 1/4 of the set. That's why I rank this expansion low, despite the funny cards.
13 - Dominion 1st edition - Because of the 6 duds replaced in the 2nd edition.
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To everyone making lists, feel free to rank Base and Base (2nd Edition) separately. It would be really interesting to see a consensus of just how much people think the changes improved the sets.
Do you think there'd be anyone who thinks the original Base game was better? I can see people missing some of the old cards, but probably everyone would agree that the 2nd edition is better when considering them separately.
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To everyone making lists, feel free to rank Base and Base (2nd Edition) separately. It would be really interesting to see a consensus of just how much people think the changes improved the sets.
Do you think there'd be anyone who thinks the original Base game was better? I can see people missing some of the old cards, but probably everyone would agree that the 2nd edition is better when considering them separately.
I actually hadn't even considered that someone might like 1st editions better.
I'm just more interested to see how much the changes have affected people's enjoyment of those sets. For example, the OP has Intrigue (2nd ed) listed as his favorite. Well, what was it before the changes? Was it only his fourth favorite expansion then?