Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Help! => Topic started by: dmazzucco on November 25, 2016, 01:31:11 pm

Title: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: dmazzucco on November 25, 2016, 01:31:11 pm

Here is the kingdom I was playing:

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/5e/Marauder.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Marauder) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3a/Explorer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Explorer) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/0/0a/Ghost_Ship.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ghost Ship) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/89/Mountebank.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mountebank) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f1/Rabble.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Rabble) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/6f/Peddler.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Peddler)
[img width=159.0]http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/be/Travelling_Fair.jpg[/img] (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Travelling Fair) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/4f/Lighthouse.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lighthouse) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/79/Squire.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/74/Urchin.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Urchin) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/51/Farming_Village.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Farming Village)

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Travelling Fair, Lighthouse, Squire, Urchin, Farming Village, Marauder, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Mountebank, Rabble, Peddler
Traveling Fair isn't showing, but it was there.

This turned out to be a really fascinating game, in which I was getting crushed, but came back to win. The game log is here:

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161125/log.0.1480046458175.txt

This game led me to several questions. Even though I wound up winning in a stunning comeback, I don't really know why (was it luck, or was his deck bound to stall so starkly?). I also know I didn't play the game well, and would like tips.

Question 1: The opening
Heavy on attacks, I thought I'd need double lighthouse, with the hope of building a FV/Rabble engine with a Mountebank kicker that draws the deck and plays Lighthouse every turn. I opened LH/FV.
My opponent, by contrast, went for double Urchin to start, presumably thinking he would want the strong trashing of the Mercenary.
What is the best 4/3 opening with this kingdom? I'm inclined to think that getting a mercenary quickly should be a high priorirty, but I don't know that double urchin is the way to do that.

Question 2: Peddler Piling
As the game moved forward, my opponent had a few stronger hands (led by his mercenary clearing out some junk), and used TF/Peddler to clear out the Peddler pile. I didn't contest this because I didn't notice it right away.  My children (who play more than I do, but are 13, 11, and 9), think the Peddler turned my opponent's FVs into plain villages, whereas my FMs were really FMs.
My biggest question (hence the title of the post) is, "Is it possible that it was good for me not to contest the Peddler piling?"

Question 3: The Fall of Rome
After my opponent bought the first 3 provinces, and I was finally picking up a Mercenary to clean up my deck, I was prepared to resign. For some reason I decided to finish it out the game. Remarkably, my engine finally came together, and I consistently played Mercenary, Rabble, Mountebank every turn (what a devastating trio, if undefended). He only managed one more province and a dutchy while I gained 4 prvinces and gave him some curses, and I eeked out a win.

What made my opponent's engine stall so dramatically? Was this just bad luck, or is this unsurprising to the more experienced players in the community.

Any other advice about this game would be welcomed.

Squirezucco

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: Kirian on November 25, 2016, 04:43:54 pm

I think the best opening here is Urchin/Marauder, with plans to pick up another Urchin on T3.  You really want Merc here, and Urchin/terminal attack has almost as good a chance of that in the second shuffle as double Urchin does.

I can't see the log properly from here, so I can't speak to the other questuons.

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: SettingFraming on November 25, 2016, 08:34:38 pm

I think that the correct answer is that you want to do what both of you were doing. Yes, you want to play with the mercenary, and you want it early. Yes, you want to get lighthouses down every turn, but this probably isn't as important as getting your mercenary(s) as soon as possible.

I would probably Urchin/Urchin, though I can see Urchin/Marauder. What I don't like about Urchin/Marauder is that Marauder is terminal and the spoils aren't great for your deck, and the ruins aren't that bad for your opponent's deck if they're going for Mercenary as well.

You want Peddlers when you can get them, and you can use Travelling Fair to help you with that, but this is way less important than getting your deck under control first. It's totally not crazy to skip Mountebank on this board, unless you notice that your opponent's deck isn't under control enough to play lighthouse every turn. Again, this is the kind of deck that I would prioritize control way ahead of payload.

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: Limetime on November 26, 2016, 12:19:44 am

Pretty much this.
After your deck is under control and if there is a significant number of peddlers left I would pick up a Squire.

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: jonaskoelker on November 25, 2017, 06:47:29 pm

Quote from: dmazzucco on November 25, 2016, 01:31:11 pm

Remarkably, my engine finally came together, and I consistently played Mercenary, Rabble, Mountebank every turn (what a devastating trio, if undefended).

[...]

What made my opponent's engine stall so dramatically?

I think the quoted part—playing those three attack—goes a long way towards accounting for your victory.

Either the play effectively a two-card hand each turn, or they're gaining two junks each turn. They're playing this with, what, two-ish green cards on top of their deck? Eh, okay, if they have a Farming Village they skip past those, but they're still going to have to get lucky to kick off their engine.

And if they miss a turn, their next turn starts with (again, say) two green cards and three random cards. Among these they need a village, and among these plus their next card they need draw to kick off, which is a tall order, and they still need even more village and draw to really have a full turn.

The more often they fail to kick off, the more they get buried in junk from Mountebank, which in turn makes it less likely they'll skip past the green topdecked with Rabble, which means they get to play Mercenary less often, which means they'll get buried in even more junk, which means [etc.].

Yeah, that trio sounds quite devastating.

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: Chris is me on November 25, 2017, 07:09:25 pm

Note: this thread is almost exactly a year old. I don’t think advice is needed anymore. :)

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: jonaskoelker on November 28, 2017, 09:31:00 am

True, but putting my beliefs out there is fun, and maybe someone will read this and explain why I'm wrong—in which case I learn something. :)

Title: Re: TF/Peddler: Friend or Foe?
Post by: markusin on November 28, 2017, 12:34:25 pm

Quote from: jonaskoelker on November 28, 2017, 09:31:00 am

True, but putting my beliefs out there is fun, and maybe someone will read this and explain why I'm wrong—in which case I learn something. :)

True, but it might take another year.