Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Help! => Topic started by: Jacob marley on November 16, 2016, 03:40:43 pm

Title: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Jacob marley on November 16, 2016, 03:40:43 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/0/01/Artificer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Artificer) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/43/Bandit_Camp.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Bandit Camp) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3e/Distant_Lands.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Distant Lands) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/1/13/Graverobber.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Graverobber) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/47/Minion.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Minion) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/bc/Mint.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mint)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/fa/Black_Market.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Black Market) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/1/11/Loan.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Loan) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f6/Miser.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Miser) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/36/Smithy.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Smithy) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/9e/Young_Witch.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Young Witch)
Code: [Select]
Black Market, Loan, Miser, Smithy, Young Witch, Artificer, Bandit Camp, Distant Lands, Graverobber, Minion, Mint
In this game:  http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161115/log.0.1479188930788.txt
I go for a minion engine, but it never really gets going while my opponent plays a moneyish game.  What should I have done?
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: McGarnacle on November 16, 2016, 04:00:00 pm
I'd get Artificer/Bandit Camp/Smithy/Minion.

But then again, I love engines, and I also love Artificer. Will play this kingdom and report back.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:07 pm
Just going to interject and say there probably isn't a 'best' strategy here, many boards have multiple paths going for them, which is part of what makes Dominion interesting.

That being said, I'd probably open Loan/Black Market and build a Smithy/Bandit Camp/Artificer thing with maybe a Minion or 2, but there are a lot of juicy $5s to get. A Young Witch is a must as the money player won't go for the bane. You might have time for some Distant Lands or Graverobber tricks, but your main mid-game goal should probably be drawing your deck and snagging the Goons out of the Black Market.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:18 pm
I'd get Tournament and Prince out of the Black Market and go from there.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:44 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:18 pm
I'd get Tournament and Prince out of the Black Market and go from there.
T o u r n a m e n t
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Chris is me on November 16, 2016, 04:16:42 pm
Black Market / Loan looks best here. The Black Market is too juicy to skip, and you want to get +Buy out of there.

I see a Bandit Camp / Smithy engine with some Minions in it as good here. The Minions are more as insurance for a bad draw than they are for their normal draw purpose - most of the time I think they end up as Silvers here, depending on the deck.

Not sure Artificer works great here or not; lots of expensive gains. But there is some good synergy with Minion! So maybe that is worth it.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: DG on November 16, 2016, 06:21:37 pm
I think there are a lot of ways a deck in this kingdom can under perform. Everything with an up side also has a down side. I'd be tempted to open young witch/silver hoping to build an engine a little before moving onto the black market. On 5/2 just start with artificer.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: McGarnacle on November 16, 2016, 06:25:37 pm
Man, Artificer is great!
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: dedicateddan on November 16, 2016, 06:53:13 pm
This is a tough board. There's an engine, and it takes a bit of work to get going.

Black market is the most defining card on the board. The black market deck contains goons, a few villages, remake, and some solid cards like hunting party. Uncontested, the cards in the black market deck will gradually take over the game.

The trashing on the board is a slow process. Loan is the most reliable, miser is the weakest, and mint is solid after the first bandit camp/artificer. From the black market deck, remake and forge can trash estates and stray copper later on. Later in the game artificer and young witch can be used to discard copper before playing loan.

The build path is constrained by terminal space. You want to play a lot of terminals (especially black market), which means that bandit camp is a particularly nice 5 to pick up. A single artificer is also nice for mid-turn gaining and setting up future draws. Having a minion or two provides an attack an opens up some interesting options, although smithy plays better with bandit camps.

On 5/2, I would open artificer/X, with the intention of using artificer to topdeck a black market and then buy a loan. If my opponent went young witch, I'd pick up an additional black market on the first shuffle. If they chose to skip black market, I'd probably pick up a young witch. I like playing with only 1 loan to maximize the chances of getting lucky with mint.

There's going to be an extended endgame, as it's a single buy board (plus the black market deck) where distant lands provide an attractive alternative to provinces, particularly for engines.

So, in summary, if you play goons every turn, you'll win. Easy game, right? :)
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Limetime on November 16, 2016, 07:38:07 pm
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:07 pm
Just going to interject and say there probably isn't a 'best' strategy here, many boards have multiple paths going for them, which is part of what makes Dominion interesting.
Just because their is multiple ways to do something doesn't mean that their isn't one best way.
The engine is defiantly best here.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 16, 2016, 07:46:34 pm
Quote from: Limetime on November 16, 2016, 07:38:07 pm
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 16, 2016, 04:11:07 pm
Just going to interject and say there probably isn't a 'best' strategy here, many boards have multiple paths going for them, which is part of what makes Dominion interesting.
Just because their is multiple ways to do something doesn't mean that their isn't one best way.
The engine is defiantly best here.
But what engine?

Do you go for Artificer?
What about Young Witch?
Do you start buying Distant Lands earlier or later?
Those are just a few questions that, when mirrored, the answer to could sway the game in your favor or could cause you to lose it.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Limetime on November 16, 2016, 08:08:28 pm
I think the best engine contains
YW,bm,loan,smithy,bandit camp, artificer, and minion (maybe mint)
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: mameluke on November 20, 2016, 12:57:39 pm
I think Black Market/Minion is pretty good here. Even with no/little trashing of treasures, you can get your treasures into play with BM and then Minion away as usual. Agreed that there is a lot going on here though.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Limetime on November 20, 2016, 04:07:57 pm
Quote from: mameluke on November 20, 2016, 12:57:39 pm
I think Black Market/Minion is pretty good here. Even with no/little trashing of treasures, you can get your treasures into play with BM and then Minion away as usual. Agreed that there is a lot going on here though.
Trashing down to threeish treasures is quite easy
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: luser on November 30, 2016, 01:55:20 pm
No, this is sort of board where minion sucks but bots would buy it and likely lose. If I know that oponent will use minion strategy I would definitely open yw/bm or yw silver if opponent skips yw on first shuffle  and second yw. On 5-2 obviously artificer to make yw on next shuffle.

Adding one or two bm doesn't stop cursing unless you have great luck and minion is card that becomes silver for 5 when your deck contains junk. Rather than relying on getting remake from bm reasonably early a more probable way is open smithy/silver to trash 6 coppers on turn 3. It looks hard to hit 5 with deck of copper, curses minion and bm where you need to chose if you want to play it but not attack on initial hand or discard it as you have too many terminals but not villages as camp cost competes with minion and adds more junk to clog engine.

Then I would add bandit camps and smithies for draw engine that is more resistent to junking and artificer once I could play bandit camp+smithy. I would aim on buying single province with artificing some distant lands as without reasonable trashing and needing +buy from black market double provincing is a dream.
Title: Re: What is the best strategy?
Post by: Chris is me on November 30, 2016, 04:50:57 pm
I think the idea for Minion here is to either play Treasure with BM or Artificer to discard for benefit before using Minion to cycle draw. This gets the Coppers out of the way, and with 1-2 BM it will take awhile for the curses to start overwhelming.