Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Help! => Topic started by: love on October 27, 2016, 08:48:11 pm

Title: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: love on October 27, 2016, 08:48:11 pm
Hi,

the board looked like this
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/cd/Catacombs.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Catacombs) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/4c/Giant.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Giant) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/20/Horn_of_Plenty.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Horn of Plenty) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/ef/Venture.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Venture) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/b2/Wine_Merchant.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wine Merchant) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/d7/Forge.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Forge)
[img width=159.0]http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/88/Borrow.jpg[/img] (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Borrow) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/30/Courtyard.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Courtyard) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e6/Forager.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Forager) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/6d/Warehouse.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Warehouse) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Wishing_Well.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wishing Well)

the log:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161024/log.0.1477297660763.txt

scroll down the log after my 16th turn and look at the decks.
Its true he has 3 Provinces and I have 0, but my idea was to get like 4 provinces + 1 duchy with horn of plenty. Could I have won from that point?
Somehow I believe Horn of Plenty should work here. Do you think it does? Thanks for help
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: SettingFraming on October 28, 2016, 12:43:21 am
There's no village and the only nonterminal draw is wishing well. Horn of plenty does not work here, at least not in a mega turn.

You could play some sort of small engine here, trashing down with forager and then using wishing well for draw. But I think big money is competitive on this board as well, playing with courtyards and/or giants, with venture support. Maybe forager is good for the bm player as well if you're going heavy venture.

This is a very difficult board to play optimally, I imagine something in between money and the engine is actually probably best here.
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: Chris is me on October 28, 2016, 08:25:11 am
The HoP turn seems very difficult here. Your uniques have to be Copper, Silver, Gold, Venture, Forager, Wishing Well, Warehouse, your terminal draw card, and HoP. That's just nine possible cards with no Village, and you have to draw everything in the right order for it to work. It's just not really an HoP megaturn board.

There really isn't an engine here. You can thin with Forager and draw nonterminal with Wishing Well yes, but your payload is limited as you struggle to hit multiple Provinces. Meanwhile Courtyard or Catacombs are both excellent BM cards. This is definitely a BM board I think. Maybe you throw a Forager in to trash some Estates and Copper because your draw cards let you deal with dead drawing a little bit? But it's not an engine board.
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: traces Around on October 28, 2016, 11:00:47 am
If you pursue an engine here, it is for reliability rather than power - no Horn of Plenty. I am not sure how fast it is to get up, but it would end up being something like 2 Warehouses, 4-5 Silver, and a bunch of Wishing Wells (and a Forager). Money strategy is either pure Courtyard or one Courtyard and two Giants. The latter beats the former but I would guess that the former performs better against an attempted engine.

Having gotten that out of the way, you were pursuing Horn of Plenty and your opponent wasn't being particularly fast, so it may have been doable. The main mistake I see here is getting so many Warehouses. Hand size increase is already difficult and so having nearly as many cards which decrease hand size as potentially increase it is not good when you need to get a large number of cards in hand for your strategy to work.
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: DG on October 28, 2016, 11:02:16 am
Your turn 11 deck is actually quite close to what you need here. You should be looking to have all the wishing wells and make them them your default wish. You only need one warehouse. The eight unique cards are going to be horn, copper, silver, wishing well, forager, warehouse, courtyard presumably, and either gold or venture (can pick up warehouse discards). With four horns and eight coins you can get the 5 provinces needed to win. I noticed also that you played forager at the start of some turns but you would get better information/choices by playing wishing wells and warehouses before that forager. The borrow for the horn of plenty is a little early and you could trim your deck a little bit before adding the horn to beef it up.

The simple money deck is quite strong here with courtyards, venture, and borrow (even though their benefits slightly overlap).
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: Chris is me on October 28, 2016, 11:33:42 am
I think if you go engine, you want an HoP, not really for the megaturn but for gaining Wishing Wells, Warehouse, and Silver faster. It's pretty easy to get two other unique cards even in a 5 card hand, and it seems worth it.

But Courtyard BM is alone pretty fast - 5 Prov by about Turn 14? - made even faster with Venture and Borrow. Venture lets you topdeck an Estate or Province and then skip it, which is a fun trick to do. Between Courtyard and Borrow you should have no problems getting Gold after your first Silver (plus that juicy 2/5 opening gets even better for BM here). I'm not sure Giant is the best move in either case - the engine can handle the Curse or the occasional missing component, though the spiky cash is really nice for BM. I would be tempted to go 2-3 Courtyards. I'm unsure if a single Forager helps or hurts. With these tweaks and good play, 5th Province on turn 13 is plausible.
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: Rabid on October 28, 2016, 12:50:48 pm
HoP mega turn seems OK to me here.
Certainly worth trying if you find it to be more fun that Courtyard money.
I had good draws here:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161028/log.0.1477672999834.txt
Boards like this are worth trying against bots.

Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on October 28, 2016, 12:57:22 pm
Quote from: Rabid on October 28, 2016, 12:50:48 pm
HoP mega turn seems OK to me here.
Certainly worth trying if you find it to be more fun that Courtyard money.
I had good draws here:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161028/log.0.1477672999834.txt
Boards like this are worth trying against bots.

I guess my question would be, does this work with say 7-8 Wishing Wells instead of 10?
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: Rabid on October 28, 2016, 01:32:47 pm
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161028/log.0.1477675410286.txt

Stopping at 6 Wells, got 3 Prov on turn 13.
Way worse, so I guess it depends how much the Wells hurt the courtyard money deck?
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: GendoIkari on October 31, 2016, 02:46:56 pm
Were those Kingdom card images generated with my [kingdom] tag in the Chrome/Firefox extension? Just want to know if there's a bug to fix.
Title: Re: What is the stronger plan here?
Post by: luser on November 01, 2016, 07:17:11 am
As usual giant is garbage here. Without engine to play it multiple times per turn as terminal gold its too slow to make impact.  Even then you wish to have marauder instead.