Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion Articles => Topic started by: werothegreat on September 26, 2016, 07:57:44 pm

Title: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: werothegreat on September 26, 2016, 07:57:44 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Pearl_Diver.jpg)

I'm challenging the members of this board to write an article about Pearl Diver.  Preferably taken seriously.  Sure, it's a weak card, but I'd like to see what you guys can come up with.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:16:37 pm
I guess there's not much to be said about the Pearl Diver effect, apart from that it's nice with Mystic and Vassal (any more?).

Most of its use comes from it being a cheap cantrip - you can pick up a bunch of them when you have Goons/Merchant Guild in play or easily increase your action density for cards that care about that eg Throne Room, Vassal, Scrying Pool, Vineyards, Conspirator, Peddler etc.

Otherwise you'll generally pick them up with $2 or even $3 or $4 if there's nothing better you want. Can be an easy pile to empty for the sake of 3-piling or Cities or to disrupt your opponent's Poachers.

(Obviously not an article, just the thoughts that would go into one.)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 26, 2016, 08:21:38 pm
You're on.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: JW on September 26, 2016, 08:41:05 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:16:37 pm
I guess there's not much to be said about the Pearl Diver effect, apart from that it's nice with Mystic and Vassal (any more?).

Lookout and Native Village.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 26, 2016, 08:42:43 pm
I'll give it a shot. Basically, it becomes an article on when a cantrip is better than nothing.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:52:34 pm
Quote from: JW on September 26, 2016, 08:41:05 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:16:37 pm
I guess there's not much to be said about the Pearl Diver effect, apart from that it's nice with Mystic and Vassal (any more?).

Lookout and Native Village.

Sentry.

Edit: Not really.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Limetime on September 26, 2016, 09:07:49 pm
Proc is decent with this.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Titandrake on September 27, 2016, 12:14:40 am
I decided the article I wrote was really dumb, so I removed it.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Davio on September 27, 2016, 04:39:33 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:16:37 pm
I guess there's not much to be said about the Pearl Diver effect, apart from that it's nice with Mystic and Vassal (any more?).

Most of its use comes from it being a cheap cantrip - you can pick up a bunch of them when you have Goons/Merchant Guild in play or easily increase your action density for cards that care about that eg Throne Room, Vassal, Scrying Pool, Vineyards, Conspirator, Peddler etc.

Otherwise you'll generally pick them up with $2 or even $3 or $4 if there's nothing better you want. Can be an easy pile to empty for the sake of 3-piling or Cities or to disrupt your opponent's Poachers.

(Obviously not an article, just the thoughts that would go into one.)
Re: Cheap cantrip

Any token placer loves cheap cantrips: Pathfinding, Teacher, Lost Arts, Training, etc.
Cheap cantrips can also be useful for faux +Actions like Golem, Herald, TR, etc.

But in that case PD is no better than Great Hall, its spying action isn't really helpful.
You can occasionally save a card from missing the reshuffle, but other than that, it's pretty mundane.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Sparafucile on September 27, 2016, 05:09:04 am
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: DG on September 27, 2016, 09:16:35 am
This is still relevant: is it better than nothing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6823.msg189042#msg189042)?
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Davio on September 27, 2016, 09:32:41 am
Quote from: DG on September 27, 2016, 09:16:35 am
This is still relevant: is it better than nothing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6823.msg189042#msg189042)?
Upvoted.

While they seem innocent (they are just placeholders in your hand), cheap cantrips can actually be hurtful.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 09:33:36 am
Quote from: Davio on September 27, 2016, 09:32:41 am
Quote from: DG on September 27, 2016, 09:16:35 am
This is still relevant: is it better than nothing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6823.msg189042#msg189042)?
Upvoted.

While they seem innocent (they are just placeholders in your hand), cheap cantrips can actually be hurtful.

I am already taking this into account for my 'article', but I appreciate the useful tips!
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2016, 10:38:08 am
Quote from: Titandrake on September 27, 2016, 12:14:40 am
I decided the article I wrote was really dumb, so I removed it.

Read it, thought it was fun, refreshed and it was gone : /
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: JW on September 27, 2016, 11:06:23 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:52:34 pm
Sentry.

Sentry draws first, so doesn't combo with Pearl Diver's topdeck effect!
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 11:09:13 am
Pearl Diver

Pearl Diver is a sad sad Dominion card that is sometimes not even better than nothing. It is one of the worst $2 cost Dominion cards in the entire game. I will explain why.

Using Pearl Diver

Pearl Diver simply draws a card and looks at the bottom card of your deck. If it is a good card, you will top deck it. Otherwise, you will leave it on the bottom most of the time. To put simply, Pearl Diver slightly mitigates bad shuffle luck, and only sometimes. That’s it.

Why is Pearl Diver so bad then, if it at least is a cantrip? Pearl Diver’s use often does not outweigh the cost it takes to get one. Getting nothing can be better than Pearl Diver.

Suppose an opponent plays a discard attack on you, and you have Pearl Diver and some other cards in hand. You can take a gamble and hope to draw a card with Pearl Diver, or discard it. If you did not have Pearl Diver, you would have known what card you would have drawn anyways with the Diver, making a more effective choice as to what to discard instead. In those cases, having a Pearl Diver is worse than nothing.

Comparables

Ignoring Chapel, $2 cost cards in Dominion generally have some sort of use, even when they are poor. Haven sets aside a card for next turn. Pawn provides flexibility with +buy. Raze trashes and cycles at the same time. Even lowly Herbalist provides a much needed +buy sometimes, and maybe you topdeck a Fortune. Heck, you might put a copper on top to help block Masquerade!

Pearl Diver has none of these edgecase uses with its ability. There is nothing in the entire game that makes Pearl Diver's ability all that desirable.

On the bright side

Not to say Pearl diver does not have its uses. Cheap cantrips are a boon for Teacher engines, and Pearl Diver is certainly not the worst card in the $2 category for this. Pearl Diver is also an action card, which can boost Vineyards and help piledrive Peddlers, as well as activate Heralds and Scrying Pools. However, this is more of an effect of Pearl Diver being a cheap cantrip or just being an Action card more than it is for Pearl Diver’s ability.

To put this entire article into a sentence: Only pick up a Pearl Diver when it helps another strategy along.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: AdrianHealey on September 27, 2016, 11:18:44 am
I never buy a pearl driver, the time it takes to resolve the card just isn't worth it
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 11:21:00 am
That is as close to an 'article' as I can get with Pearl Diver.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 11:24:03 am
I thought of something edgecasey.

Suppose you want to protect your Stash against a Thief play, so you bottomdeck it for next turn, and then draw it back up with Pearl Diver.

It's probably average with Vassal too, since it will just hit that nice Action card that was on bottom instead.

This is the kind of lame crap not worth discussing in articles. Stuff that never happens.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 12:02:25 pm
In the spirit of competition I'll bang out a short article today or tomorrow, even though Seprix wrote one that is probably pretty good anyway. Then you'all have two arbitrary options to bicker about with no real differences. Election joke goes here.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Polk5440 on September 27, 2016, 12:06:29 pm
Pearl Diver does not need a dedicated article.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 12:12:38 pm
Quote from: Polk5440 on September 27, 2016, 12:06:29 pm
Pearl Diver does not need a dedicated article.

Every wiki page could use some content! No reason to just not take information we have and put it there.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on September 27, 2016, 01:54:32 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 12:12:38 pm
Quote from: Polk5440 on September 27, 2016, 12:06:29 pm
Pearl Diver does not need a dedicated article.

Every wiki page could use some content! No reason to just not take information we have and put it there.

This is why I have been turning the 'Let's talk about...' pages from Adventures into Wiki pages. Although I kinda got sick of it halfway through the Events. I should really finish it someday.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 01:57:34 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 12:02:25 pm
In the spirit of competition I'll bang out a short article today or tomorrow, even though Seprix wrote one that is probably pretty good anyway. Then you'all have two arbitrary options to bicker about with no real differences. Election joke goes here.

Other than editing out 'a sad sad Dominion card' for Wiki standards, mine is probably fine, but I'll like to see your project.

We should write shit on all the cards with no articles.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: DG on September 27, 2016, 02:31:40 pm
If pearl diver was a food, what sort of food would it be?
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 02:33:06 pm
Quote from: DG on September 27, 2016, 02:31:40 pm
If pearl diver was a food, what sort of food would it be?

A stale Cheezit.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: pingpongsam on September 27, 2016, 02:44:58 pm
Carob.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Limetime on September 27, 2016, 02:47:38 pm
A flavorless wafer.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 02:51:10 pm
A toothpick.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
First things first, Seprix, I'm not writing this because I think there's anything wrong with what you wrote. Just because I'm bored and I don't let things like "someone else already did it" stop me from making needless work :3

1700 words, no formatting because I'm on my phone at the moment. Edit: now with bold titles!

Pearl Diver

Pearl Diver is among the most basic examples of a cantrip in Dominion. Other than Page, no other cantrip does less on-play than Pearl Diver. All Pearl Diver does is check the bottom card of your deck, which you can move to the top. The effect does not stack well, since if you keep the bottom card on the bottom of the deck, future Pearl Divers just check that same card repeatedly unitl you reshuffle. So it really is a cantrip with a bonus so weak it is negligible in most cases.

Pearl Diver is an excellent illustration of opportunity cost in Dominion. It is a card that, once in your deck, usually does not hurt the deck. It might even save a good card from missing the shuffle once in awhile. But with limited economy, gains, or buys, getting Pearl Diver when you could have gotten a different, better card is often difficult to justify.

Playing Pearl Diver is simple enough, so it is best to focus on when it is worth gaining Pearl Diver in the first place.

When Should I Gain Pearl Diver?

To answer this question, first consider the attributes of Pearl Diver.
- It is named Pearl Diver
- It is an Action card.
- It costs $2.
- It gives +1 Card and +1 Action.
- It does a bottom-of-deck inspection.
- It comes from an Action Supply Pile.

The short version is, Pearl Diver is worth it if you need cards with one or more of these attributes in your deck and a better card cannot be gained instead. Below are some examples of when each trait is relevant. They are by their nature edge cases, but they should give you a good idea of what to notice when considering Pearl Diver.

When You Need A Differently Named Card

This is kind of a gimme, because it can justify the gaining of basically any card, but Pearl Diver is a potential unique card that is easy to incorporate into almost any deck (terminal draw BM excluded). Horn of Plenty and Fairgrounds are two powerful cards that care about uniques.

Hunting Party is also relevant. In certain decks you may run out of unique cards for it to sift for, causing excess HP plays to only draw a single card. If you add cantrips, you can have your excess HPs dive for the cantrip, then play all copies of the cantrip, then play HP again to fish for another copy of that cantrip. This ensures your handsize continues to increase with each HP play.

When You Need An Action Card

Certain cards really like your deck to have a lot of Action cards in them. Scrying Pool draws through Actions and stops at stop cards. Graverobber and Advance trash Action cards for benefit. Vineyard craves numerous cheap Action cards. Throne Room needs to collide with SOMETHING in order to not be a dead card. Gaining Pearl Diver always increases the proportion of your deck that is Action cards, and always increases the number of Action cards in your deck. By being a cantrip, Pearl Diver shouldn't hurt your deck too much versus your other choices for cheap Actions in that particular Kingdom, especially if it is one of the only nonterminals (more on that later).

Depending on how you gain it, you may be able to remove a stop card while doing so, for example by Remodeling a Copper or Curse into Pearl Diver. Ironworks is a card gainer that needs to gain an Action card in order for it to be nonterminal. It's plausible the choice for Ironworks is between Pearl Diver or not being played at all (if you can't afford deck space for another Ironworks). Or maybe you just have an extra $2 and 1 Buy at the end of a turn, and it's the best Action card you can justify.

Procession and Death Cart both are trash for benefit cards that require you to trash Actions, so Pearl Diver is a good card to feed these with if you can get it easily.

When You Need A Card That Costs $2

Pearl Diver costs $2, and all sorts of things in Dominion care about that. Trash for benefit cards are the big winner here. There's the Remodel (or Governor) case, where you may need something that costs up to $2 more than a Copper or Curse. In many cases, the cantrip Pearl Diver is the card you should get.

More importantly though, Pearl Diver can itself be trashed for benefit. Salvager can use it as fuel to give you a little money (and more importantly a +Buy). Remodel can turn it into a $4 cost card once your Estates are gone. Remake can turn it into at worst a Silver. Expand and Graverobber can trash it and turn it into any card costing up to $5, an elite tier of Action cards.

The most notable synergy is with Procession. Procession can play Pearl Diver twice, giving +2 Cards +2 Actions, and then gain an Action card costing $3. Pearl Diver could be the start of a powerful Procession chain, as well as a source of +Actions for an engine lubricated by Procession.

Finally, Pearl Diver is a card that is cheaper than $3. This makes it immune to all trashing attacks, including Warrior, Knights, and Rogue. This is relevant if you are building an engine based on Teacher or a token event - Pearl Diver is a safe destination for tokens that trashing attacks can't remove from your deck. Even without token cards, a deck full of Peddlers has a lower density of more valuable cards, increasing the chances of a trashing attack miss.

When You Need A Cantrip

Pearl Diver is more or less a vanilla cantrip. It doesn't do much else! So really, this is its biggest selling point, those +1 Card and +1 Action, which make it usually not have an impact on your deck's terminal space or handsize.

Some cards really, really value the presence of cantrips. The biggest example are Throne Room variants. You can Throne Room a Pearl Diver to give +2 cards +2 actions, which increases the available terminal space in a deck. If Pearl Diver is the only cantrip, the extra Action can be invaluable, because otherwise you have to rely on chaining Throne Room / Throne Room / Terminal Draw / Throne Room / Action / Throne Room... for your engine to work. If you miss a chance to play Throne Room on itself, the chain is broken. If you Throne a cantrip, then you can end a Throne Room chain and still play other Actions.

Other Throne Room variants also like cantrips. Royal Carriage engines require cantrips if there is no Village in the kingdom in order to play more than a single unique terminal action. Procession not only gets the extra Actions, but it upgrades Pearl Diver into a card that might actually be good. King's Court is probably the least reliant on Pearl Diver, as it is easier to chain multiple King's Courts than it is to chain multiple Throne Rooms, but Pearl Diver can still be nice in a pinch for KC engines.

Conspirator requires a certain number of Actions to have been played in order to activate, so a Conspirator deck benefits from having vanilla cantrips sprinkled throughout it. Herald and Vassal both play Actions if they are on your deck, so they value a deck with many Actions, especially cantrips. Pearl Diver is good filler for these cards as well.

When You Need A Bottom Of Deck Inspection

This is, oddly enough, both the thing that makes Pearl Diver unique and the least common reason you'll purchase the card. But it does have this benefit. Opening Pearl Diver / something on 5/2 decreases your chances of the $5 card missing the shuffle versus opening something / nothing. This might matter at some point.

The only other situations that come to mind are when you care about the top card of your deck. For example, Mystic likes Pearl Diver because it can guarantee a draw.

When You Need A Card From An Action Supply Pile

Teacher and the +Token Events deserve special mention here, as Pearl Diver is among the cheapest possible targets for these cards / events. Pearl Diver becomes a $2 Laboratory plus with the addition of a +Card token. It can be a half-decent cheap Village with the +Action token, or a $2 Peddler with the +Coin token. The +Buy token basically makes it a boring Market Square variant. These situations are usually fairly obvious.

When To Not Gain Pearl Diver

The most obvious time to not gain Pearl Diver is when a better card can be gained for the same opportunity cost and do the same job as Pearl Diver. If you just need an Action card, and there is another cheap Action card, maybe it benefits your deck more than Pearl Diver. If you just need a cantrip, maybe you can afford a pricier one depending on your gain method, or even cards like Vagrant which are the same price. The bottom of deck inspection is the only unique attribute of Pearl Diver other than its name, and that effect isn't strong enough to usually justify it outside of these other factors.

You also don't want to gain Pearl Diver when your coins, Buys, or gains are best used on other cards. These are sometimes scarce, and Pearl Diver is usually only good when you have exactly $2 and a spare Buy, or you have a gainer you were otherwise not going to use. Lots of times there just isn't the time to gain it versus other things you need more.

One special case when it is worse to get Pearl Diver than it is to get nothing at all is when you play a terminal draw card with no actions left. In this case, like any cantrip, Pearl Diver becomes a stop card instead of a freebie. Big Money should stay away from Pearl Diver for the most part.

The other special case where Pearl Diver is particularly bad is discard attacks. These attacks make all cantrips a little bit worse, since you have to decide between discarding the cantrip or a different card (without knowing the replacement card the cantrip will draw). In the case of more powerful cantrips like Peddler variants, Grand Market, etc. the benefit of playing the cantrip itself justifies their inclusion in a deck vulnerable to these attacks. But Pearl Diver's secondary effect is so minimal, its inclusion in your deck just becomes a liability. Pillage is an exception - there Pearl Diver is helpful because it effectively conceals the information of what card replaces it from your opponent.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: JW on September 27, 2016, 03:45:50 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
Wishing Well also likes Pearl Diver. If you play one WW and guess wrong, then you use Pearl Diver to topdeck a different card, you are now guaranteed to get your next WW play correct and increase your handsize.

Pearl Diver will draw the card you revealed to Wishing Well in this situation.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:48:24 pm
Quote from: JW on September 27, 2016, 03:45:50 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
Wishing Well also likes Pearl Diver. If you play one WW and guess wrong, then you use Pearl Diver to topdeck a different card, you are now guaranteed to get your next WW play correct and increase your handsize.

Pearl Diver will draw the card you revealed to Wishing Well in this situation.

Thanks, deleted that whole bit.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: singletee on September 27, 2016, 04:03:12 pm
That's a lot of words; I read most of them. Good article on a card that in no way merits one. ;)

Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
Remake and Graverobber can trash it and turn it into any card costing up to $5, an elite tier of Action cards.

"Remake" should be "Expand".

The bottom-deck inspection also interacts with Stash and Secret Passage in a somewhat useful way.

You mentioned that the $2 cost makes it immune to most trashing attacks, but also note that adding Pearl Divers to your deck makes it more likely that those attacks will miss your $3-$6 cards.

Finally, there is one discard attack where you benefit if you have a hand full of Pearl Divers when you are hit with it: Pillage.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2016, 05:23:47 pm
Quote from: JW on September 27, 2016, 11:06:23 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2016, 08:52:34 pm
Sentry.

Sentry draws first, so doesn't combo with Pearl Diver's topdeck effect!

Unless you play 2 Pearl Divers!  ::)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Limetime on September 27, 2016, 05:40:27 pm
Pearl diver mitigates spy attacks some bit.
Reason't not to get
It can be swindled into a estate. This may actually be a good thing if your deck is really good.

It isn't a treasure
For poor house eg hand of necro and two poorhouses and two pearl divers yields a province. If the cards on top of your deck were coppers that wouldn't be the case.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Dingan on September 27, 2016, 05:56:19 pm
My best shot at a Pearl Diver article:

(http://i.imgur.com/XpYAL40.png)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Chris is me: Pearl Diver is not immune to Swindler.  I would mention Conspirator in the "need a cantrip" section, and Vassal in the "bottom of deck" section.  Also, you mistakenly call it "Peddler" at some point.

Query: if Pearl Diver is the only <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Action, is it worth Inheriting?
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 27, 2016, 11:29:18 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Query: if Pearl Diver is the only <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Action, is it worth Inheriting?

Yes. Almost always.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: AJD on September 27, 2016, 11:39:21 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Chris is me: Pearl Diver is not immune to Swindler.  I would mention Conspirator in the "need a cantrip" section, and Vassal in the "bottom of deck" section.

Vassal is also relevant for the "wants a high density of Actions" section.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Limetime on September 27, 2016, 11:40:38 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Chris is me: Pearl Diver is not immune to Swindler.  I would mention Conspirator in the "need a cantrip" section, and Vassal in the "bottom of deck" section.  Also, you mistakenly call it "Peddler" at some point.

Query: if Pearl Diver is the only <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Action, is it worth Inheriting?
Depends if it is easier to trash them.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: King Leon on September 28, 2016, 12:27:16 am
Don't forget that Pearl Diver can be used to line up combo cards like Treasure Maps, Tournament/Province, Sauna/Avanto and so on.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Limetime on September 28, 2016, 01:31:12 am
Pearl diver is bad for things like doctor and sentry where it interferes with trashing
Pearl diver and cartographer have a mixed relationship because revealing pearl divers makes cardio's ability worse but playing pearl divers after wards lets you draw one of the cards you found
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Davio on September 28, 2016, 01:58:09 am
Quote from: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Chris is me: Pearl Diver is not immune to Swindler.  I would mention Conspirator in the "need a cantrip" section, and Vassal in the "bottom of deck" section.  Also, you mistakenly call it "Peddler" at some point.

Query: if Pearl Diver is the only <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Action, is it worth Inheriting?
Sure, the thing about Inheriting is that you can easily grab more Estates at almost no cost to your deck.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: AdrianHealey on September 28, 2016, 02:15:15 am
Haven is what Pearl Diver wants to be, so it's weird that they are in the same set.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: DG on September 28, 2016, 07:01:34 am
If pearl diver was a food, what food would it be? Well it would be a condiment. It isn't the main meal. It adds flavour to the meal you have. You wouldn't add the condiment to every meal.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Accatitippi on September 28, 2016, 08:31:47 am
Noodles.
That's what I buy when I'm tight on money, and it's usually better than nothing. (I still have some doubts, though)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 28, 2016, 10:08:53 am
Quote from: Accatitippi on September 28, 2016, 08:31:47 am
Noodles.
That's what I buy when I'm tight on money, and it's usually better than nothing. (I still have some doubts, though)

There was that girl who exclusively ate Ramen noodles her entire life, and now she is so unhealthy due to vitamin deficiencies, but she cannot eat anything else due to her body rejecting it.

Moral of the story: Don't buy too many Pearl Divers.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: AJD on September 28, 2016, 12:29:07 pm
Quote from: Davio on September 28, 2016, 01:58:09 am
Quote from: werothegreat on September 27, 2016, 10:55:55 pm
Chris is me: Pearl Diver is not immune to Swindler.  I would mention Conspirator in the "need a cantrip" section, and Vassal in the "bottom of deck" section.  Also, you mistakenly call it "Peddler" at some point.

Query: if Pearl Diver is the only <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Action, is it worth Inheriting?
Sure, the thing about Inheriting is that you can easily grab more Estates at almost no cost to your deck.

Yabbut Great Hall was cut from the second edition for a reason.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 28, 2016, 03:06:39 pm
Inheriting Great Halls seems so sad. Do you do that in the absence of trashing, but with a good engine, assuming no other good Inheritance targets? Or do you just skip Inheritance entirely?
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: singletee on September 28, 2016, 03:10:10 pm
Quote from: Seprix on September 28, 2016, 03:06:39 pm
Inheriting Great Halls seems so sad. Do you do that in the absence of trashing, but with a good engine, assuming no other good Inheritance targets? Or do you just skip Inheritance entirely?

$7 is a huge opportunity cost. The main scenario I can think of in which you might do this is an engine with copper trashing, no estate trashing, and no handsize increase.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on September 28, 2016, 04:00:07 pm
Quote from: singletee on September 28, 2016, 03:10:10 pm
Quote from: Seprix on September 28, 2016, 03:06:39 pm
Inheriting Great Halls seems so sad. Do you do that in the absence of trashing, but with a good engine, assuming no other good Inheritance targets? Or do you just skip Inheritance entirely?

$7 is a huge opportunity cost. The main scenario I can think of in which you might do this is an engine with copper trashing, no estate trashing, and no handsize increase.

I dunno, there are a decent number of boards where I'd pay $7 to trash 3 cards, and to activate an Event that let me trade 1 VP for $2. Easy Estate trashing is a reason not to do this, however.

Everyone else: Thanksfor the tips, will edit soon.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 04:41:57 pm
You can't inherit great halls.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Seprix on September 28, 2016, 05:03:57 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 04:41:57 pm
You can't inherit great halls.

...

Right.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: JW on September 28, 2016, 05:25:51 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 04:41:57 pm
You can't inherit great halls.

I believe that the implied argument is that Pearl Diver is so useless than inheriting Pearl Diver only means you pay $2 for an Estate, which is still only as good as Great Hall (+1 Card, +1 Action, worth 1 VP).
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: ConMan on September 28, 2016, 08:01:22 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 04:41:57 pm
You can't inherit great halls.
Especially now.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 08:09:53 pm
Quote from: JW on September 28, 2016, 05:25:51 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on September 28, 2016, 04:41:57 pm
You can't inherit great halls.

I believe that the implied argument is that Pearl Diver is so useless than inheriting Pearl Diver only means you pay $2 for an Estate, which is still only as good as Great Hall (+1 Card, +1 Action, worth 1 VP).
Ah yes.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: majiponi on September 29, 2016, 07:29:05 am
How about using as fuel for Death Cart?
With Ruins, play PD to cycle your deck.
Without Ruins, sacrifice PD to keep DC.
When using DC and strong trashers, deck controlling shines more.

http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160519/log.0.1463643069072.txt
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: arcee on September 30, 2016, 12:36:12 am
Quote from: Chris is me on September 27, 2016, 03:41:15 pm
a deck full of Peddlers has a lower density of more valuable cards, increasing the chances of a trashing attack miss.

King's Court is probably the least reliant on Peddler, as it is easier to chain multiple King's Courts than it is to chain multiple Throne Rooms, but Pearl Diver can still be nice in a pinch for KC engines.

These Peddlers should be Pearl Divers instead!
(A statement commonly made about Dominion decks?)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: gloures on October 04, 2016, 12:16:01 am
One of my minor annoyances with pearl diver is when you only have one card left in your deck, a pearl diver in hand and donīt want to cause a reshuffle...
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Minotaur on January 18, 2017, 04:09:21 pm
Quote from: DG on September 27, 2016, 02:31:40 pm
If pearl diver was a food, what sort of food would it be?

A styrofoam peanut.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: McGarnacle on January 18, 2017, 04:49:14 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on January 18, 2017, 04:09:21 pm
Quote from: DG on September 27, 2016, 02:31:40 pm
If pearl diver was a food, what sort of food would it be?

A styrofoam peanut.

Or fakin bacon
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: werothegreat on January 19, 2017, 01:08:18 am
Chris is me: were you ever going to finish editing your article?  For example, mentioning Conspirator and Vassal, etc.  I think it's good enough to throw on the wiki once you're done.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Chris is me on January 19, 2017, 01:49:41 pm
I will eventually make the changes and post a revised version here. Most of the free time I have for this sort of thing is at work, where both the Forum and wiki are blocked; lots of emailing back and forth to myself required. So I would be super grateful if someone else pasted it to the wiki.  Let's see if I can get this revised today.

Edit: Made small changes on my phone, mentioned cards people brought up. Anything else?
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: Minotaur on January 19, 2017, 02:13:51 pm
90% of the article about Pearl Diver could be filed under "when is a raw cantrip better than nothing?"  It probably should be edited out of Seaside 2nd Edition, if anything.

I think a Pearl Diver article would essentially be the "better than nothing?" article with a half-dozen edge cases tacked on at the end, if that many.  Vassal, Mystic, Jack of All Trades, Duchess.  Mostly just Mystic, though.  Maybe some fan cards.


Wishing Pearl
Treasure
Cost: $3

+$3
-----------------
Whenever this becomes the top card of your deck, take your -1 Card token.
Whenever you shuffle your deck, put this card on the bottom.
-----------------
Setup:  Add Wishing Well and Pearl Diver to the Supply.
(The back of this card is unique.)
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: werothegreat on January 19, 2017, 03:31:38 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on January 19, 2017, 01:49:41 pm
I will eventually make the changes and post a revised version here. Most of the free time I have for this sort of thing is at work, where both the Forum and wiki are blocked; lots of emailing back and forth to myself required. So I would be super grateful if someone else pasted it to the wiki.  Let's see if I can get this revised today.

Edit: Made small changes on my phone, mentioned cards people brought up. Anything else?

Looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Challenge: Write a Pearl Diver article
Post by: MatthewCA on February 04, 2017, 08:40:21 am
I've discovered what might be an interesting piece of trivia about pearl diver if it true lol. I believe that pearl diver dates back to the original version of dominion. Before you completely cycled through your deck. We know from the secret histories that the original shuffle rule was that if you didn't have enough cards to resolve an action, you took what was left of your deck and shuffled it into your discard pile then that was your new deck. Obviously, if there are good cards on the bottom of your deck, they'd miss the shuffle again, and you'd have to wait to use the good cards. Pearl Diver was a way around this problem. Allowing players to look at then top deck a card they wanted meant that they actually got a chance to use it in many instances. I believe that when the shuffle rule was changed in development, pearl diver was never updated to reflect the new rule, and was far less useful.