Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: JThorne on July 27, 2016, 12:07:14 pm
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I don't know if this has occurred to anyone else, but after playing with it a bit and discussing some of the cards, a secondary theme seems to be emerging.
Empires is the expansion that desperately tries to give you things you really don't want.
Seriously, almost every card gives you something that is actively bad.
Many card-shaped things give you debt.
Many card-shaped things give you (or encourage you to keep) copper (Banquet, Settlers), silver (Delve, Conquest, Rocks), Estates (Wild Hunt) or even curses (Ritual).
There's a $5 silver that does nothing to make your deck perform better (Plunder)
There's a $5 do-nothing cantrip (Groundskeeper).
There's a $5 Peddler-variant (Emporium) that's worse than all previous ones (Market, Treasury, Artificer, etc.)
There's an event that tries to seduce you into sabotaging your own beautiful deck-drawing engine by cramming it with Gold (Windfall. It's exactly the kind of card that a semi-experienced player says "Wow!" about and an expert says, "Hey, wait a minute...")
Of course, other than the debt and treasure-gaining, it's mostly about the VP.
One of the most elegant and clever design decisions in Dominion, present from the very beginning with just the base set, is that victory cards are bad. Fundamentally, when players buy victory cards, they damage their deck, which slows them down so that the opponent(s) can catch up. Too many games neglect putting in a balancing mechanism like that, so when a player starts winning, they accelerate (I'm looking at you, Catan.) It takes careful and deliberate planning to get around that mechanism in Dominion, which is part of what makes engine-building so rewarding.
So after years of expert players figuring out how to optimize engines to mitigate the damage done to decks by the basic process of trying to win, what does Donald do? He gives us a huge number of additional ways to damage our decks by providing unskippable alt+VP generation. Nicely done.
Not that this makes engines less viable. In many cases, it's just the opposite. Historically, I've frequently looked at a board with a beautiful drawing engine on it, but with absolutely no payload! How many times have you seen fantastic draw, trashing and coin, but no +buy, and no attacks and realized that the best-case engine is a boring Province-a-turn which might not even outrace BM? Empires changes that by providing a whole ton of payload cards that offer far more interesting choices and opportunities, but very little actual help drawing deck.
Donald could have succumbed to the power-creep temptation and just given us a bunch of cards that were wildly more powerful than previous cards (and he sure as heck threw us that bone with Donate and Fortune) but instead, he reminded us what the basic mechanism of the game was and said, "Hey! You kids quit running all over the house flinging cards everywhere. Sit down and eat your vegetables."
Empires is greener than a Kale and Spinach salad.
It's a great design decision, and really improves the game dramatically.
(Edited to list a few actual cards.)
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Those vegetables presumably being grown and tended to by the Groundskeeper.
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Those vegetables presumably being grown and tended to by the Groundskeeper.
...A card that exemplifies the point perfectly! Who buys a $5 do-nothing cantrip? At least Goons came with money, +buy and a discard attack! (Goons really is a kind of unreasonably powerful card.) Yet Groundskeeper is a build-around you might not be able to ignore.
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I think I could appreciate this thread a lot more if you listed the cards you're talking about....
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I think I could appreciate this thread a lot more if you listed the cards you're talking about....
Just like a kid that doesn't eat their vegetables, wants everything handed to them instead of having to work themselves.
Now go clean your room!
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
Eat your vegetables, and then spit them out at your opponent.
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Nobody likes eating their vegetables or buying victory point cards, but you have to have your greens :)
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
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There is also something seriously unsatisfying about getting pinned by crowned torturers. You wouldn't think torturur pins would be simple, but it happened. It was one of those few boards were opening 5/2 is a disadvantage.
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There is also something seriously unsatisfying about getting pinned by crowned torturers. You wouldn't think torturur pins would be simple, but it happened. It was one of those few boards were opening 5/2 is a disadvantage.
how is this literally any different than throne / torturer or village / torturer tho
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OP nailed it. DXV is an excellent designer and realises the best part of building an engine is the challenge of putting it together and that is made all the better if it isn't simple. Like the first game I actually won while using rats. Empires is full of engine pieces that can be a perfect component to a satisfying deck but aren't just automatically good.
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There is also something seriously unsatisfying about getting pinned by crowned torturers. You wouldn't think torturur pins would be simple, but it happened. It was one of those few boards were opening 5/2 is a disadvantage.
Just take the Curse.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Witch without the cursing attack is crap.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Um, Rebuild, scout? Witch is pretty decent, and without the attack it's worse than Moat.
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honestly, yeah, just handing one over with witch is really fun. all of the other ones have some catch or conditional—torturer, well, the curse is only there to help her out, mountebank and young witch she can just block, swamp hag she can just not buy anything for, and cultist just has a colossal and consuming emptiness to it, like a zombie apologizing to another zombie even though they were both bitten by indifferent third parties. witch, you just hand it over and be content with having attacked.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Um, Rebuild, scout? Witch is pretty decent, and without the attack it's worse than Moat.
It's worse than Moat, but compare it to Sea Hag/YW etc..
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The real problem is that Witch's strength caused the other problems with junkers. It was the original junker, so it kinda became a precedent, a baseline for all newer cards from expansions.. Mountebank and Cultist are only slightly stronger than Witch, but they are still so strong that they are overcentralizing.
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How does one 'fix' Witch then? I think it's fine. Cultist spamming itself is insanely strong, and Mountebank junks way too often.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Um, Rebuild, scout? Witch is pretty decent, and without the attack it's worse than Moat.
It's worse than Moat, but compare it to Sea Hag/YW etc..
Which are appropriately priced at $4? Witch is fine, cultist is strong, and mountebank is strong too, but I at least find them all fun to play with every once in a while.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Um, Rebuild, scout? Witch is pretty decent, and without the attack it's worse than Moat.
It's worse than Moat, but compare it to Sea Hag/YW etc..
Which are appropriately priced at $4? Witch is fine, cultist is strong, and mountebank is strong too, but I at least find them all fun to play with every once in a while.
I was talking about how good there are without them cursing. But that I didn't really want to spark this discussion here, this thread is about Vegetables in Empires! I'll wonder whether you can buy those at the farmers' market. Also, why does the market have to be trashed every fifth time? I wouldn't buy there anymore if I heard that.
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I was talking about how good there are without them cursing. But that I didn't really want to spark this discussion here, this thread is about Vegetables in Empires! I'll wonder whether you can buy those at the farmers' market. Also, why does the market have to be trashed every fifth time? I wouldn't buy there anymore if I heard that.
It's the only way to guarantee that the vegetables are fresh.
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I think the best examples for the thing you're trying to express are actually the attacks. You want to use them as your payload? You better work for it, either gaining silvers for catapults or a Gold for Legionary. I like this design trend very well, it's just so much more fun than cursing with a Witch
When all is said and done though, there is something extremely satisfying about the basic cursing with witch.
I disagree completely. I think Witch is the worst designed card in Dominion next to Cultist since it so good without the attack that it becomes obnoxious with it.
Um, Rebuild, scout? Witch is pretty decent, and without the attack it's worse than Moat.
I thought we were over this.
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I think I could appreciate this thread a lot more if you listed the cards you're talking about....
Go to Rio Grande Games and download a copy of Empires, and all other rule books.
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I think I could appreciate this thread a lot more if you listed the cards you're talking about....
Go to Rio Grande Games and download a copy of Empires, and all other rule books.
I think using the wiki would be much easier.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Empires
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Whatever. My point is the information is available out there. All one needs to do is look for it. Manuals for offline viewing, wiki online.
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I think I could appreciate this thread a lot more if you listed the cards you're talking about....
Go to Rio Grande Games and download a copy of Empires, and all other rule books.
I could also write a post using a different language and then recommend that you use a language dictionary to read it; but I should probably just make it readable without external sources....
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One of the most elegant and clever design decisions in Dominion, present from the very beginning with just the base set, is that victory cards are bad. Fundamentally, when players buy victory cards, they damage their deck, which slows them down so that the opponent(s) can catch up. Too many games neglect putting in a balancing mechanism like that, so when a player starts winning, they accelerate (I'm looking at you, Catan.) It takes careful and deliberate planning to get around that mechanism in Dominion, which is part of what makes engine-building so rewarding.
While I love Dominion and prefer it to Catan, Catan has two mechanisms that slow down a powerful player:
A: The robber. In a 4P game the robber should be on the most powerful player's space 75% of the time (and, if the powerful player buys development cards to mitigate the robber, these are resources he could be using to build cities - if he can do both, you're screwed either way).
B: Trade embargoes. Basically when a player begins to get powerful, every other player should refuse to trade with him or her. Let them deal with the bank or ports.
These are nowhere near as elegant as Dominion, but I've definitely played games with worse runaway leader problems (Acquire comes to mind immediately). Catan's issue is more a runaway loser problem - if you get blocked off early or players place their initial settlements in a way you don't anticipate, you usually have almost no chance of winning.
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One of the most elegant and clever design decisions in Dominion, present from the very beginning with just the base set, is that victory cards are bad. Fundamentally, when players buy victory cards, they damage their deck, which slows them down so that the opponent(s) can catch up. Too many games neglect putting in a balancing mechanism like that, so when a player starts winning, they accelerate (I'm looking at you, Catan.) It takes careful and deliberate planning to get around that mechanism in Dominion, which is part of what makes engine-building so rewarding.
While I love Dominion and prefer it to Catan, Catan has two mechanisms that slow down a powerful player:
A: The robber. In a 4P game the robber should be on the most powerful player's space 75% of the time (and, if the powerful player buys development cards to mitigate the robber, these are resources he could be using to build cities - if he can do both, you're screwed either way).
B: Trade embargoes. Basically when a player begins to get powerful, every other player should refuse to trade with him or her. Let them deal with the bank or ports.
These are nowhere near as elegant as Dominion, but I've definitely played games with worse runaway leader problems (Acquire comes to mind immediately). Catan's issue is more a runaway loser problem - if you get blocked off early or players place their initial settlements in a way you don't anticipate, you usually have almost no chance of winning.
Is this really true about Empires, anyways? I would think that fewer alt-VP cards and more emphasis on VP tokens instead of cards that clog your deck does *not* help slowing down the engine player/player who is ahead.
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Is this really true about Empires, anyways? I would think that fewer alt-VP cards and more emphasis on VP tokens instead of cards that clog your deck does *not* help slowing down the engine player/player who is ahead.
VP-gainers in Empires tend to give you junk in the form of curses, Estates, Duchies, or even terminal Temples you don't really want too many of. There are no Monuments. It's not VP instead of junk, it's VP in addition to junk, making the decisions much trickier. Sure, there's chariot Race, but boy you had better be sure that's the best thing to do or you're buying an awful lot of do-nothing cards. And there's Sacrifice, but at some point you'll have to actually buy more junk to trash or it stops working.
I played a very interesting kingdom yesterday with a lot of Empires in it. Colony game, Groundskeepers, Highway, Temple, Forum, Festival as the only +buy, and Moat as the only handsize-increaser. Tricky. I decided early that I was going to ignore Colonies and try to build a Groundskeeper engine, but with Festival as the only +buy, (and not wanting to trust Festival/Moat for draw!) I couldn't finish the turn with enough cards in hand to get a bunch of buys AND trash a pile of victory cards repeatedly. I had to time the greening over a few turns, planning on diminishing returns due to taking up more green than I could realistically trash each shuffle, and decide what to forum away based on whether I had enough Groundskeepers/Festivals in play to be worth picking up estates, or if this was going to be a turn for trashing the green cards that were getting in the way of my next turn. (I bought combinations of Duchies/Estates a few times just so that Forum had two differently-named cards to trash.)
I won by a large margin, but I'm also an idiot: It could have been so much better. I put my five Highways and some Festivals on the table early on to buy a bunch of free engine parts and completely neglected to pick up the whole Forum pile and mic-drop it into my discard. D'oh! I only saw my mistake later when I was actually in the process of crawling toward a three-pile and realized I could have done it many turns earlier. Who designs a card that says "when you buy this, +1 buy"? Not only is Empires the "Eat Your Vegetables" expansion, it's the "I thought I knew how to play this game" expansion.
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I agree with 95% of the above post, but I just wanted to point out there is a Monument. Plunder is basically as close to a Monument as you could possibly get without it being the same card. Crown / Plunder strategies operate similarly to Throne / Monument ones.
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Is this really true about Empires, anyways? I would think that fewer alt-VP cards and more emphasis on VP tokens instead of cards that clog your deck does *not* help slowing down the engine player/player who is ahead.
VP-gainers in Empires tend to give you junk in the form of curses, Estates, Duchies, or even terminal Temples you don't really want too many of. There are no Monuments. It's not VP instead of junk, it's VP in addition to junk, making the decisions much trickier.
Even so, there isn't THAT much junk. In an engine, you're going to have trashing anyways, so getting rid of just one card per multiple VP gain is not that big of a deal. Just don't buy them until you've thinned down enough, like buying a Curse in an Ambassador game. Take Groundskeeper for instance -- it's easy to get multiples of these in play, and then all you have to do is buy a single Estate, or even a Province, which you want to do anyways. You only need to buy the one junk card to get a substantial benefit (sure, +buy makes it even better, but), and then you can trash it. Compare this to Goons, where it is hard to get multiples in play, and you really need to buy multiple cards for the huge benefit (although this is not restricted to green cards). To me it seems like the design of Empires of gaining VP tokens tied to gaining an Estate, etc. is to make sure the game ends at some point, not to slow down the player playing said card/event.
Now, with the lack of trashing available this is of course a lot more tricky. I don't think it's an accident that there is no non-terminal trashing in Empires, and even trashing more than one card in a turn is tricky. But cards like Junk Dealer, Forager, Upgrade, etc. are going to be a lot stronger with Empires cards on the board.
Personally, I find the strategy involved with cards like Gardens, Silk Road, Duke, etc. to be more interesting, since the power of those cards requires you to have (a lot of) them in your deck, which actively slows you down. I wonder what some of these drawback cards would have been like if you had to gain two Estates, or two Curses (a la Swamp Hag)
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I agree with 95% of the above post, but I just wanted to point out there is a Monument. Plunder is basically as close to a Monument as you could possibly get without it being the same card. Crown / Plunder strategies operate similarly to Throne / Monument ones.
Yeah, I missed that one, though I did make a passing reference to it being an expensive silver. I thought about going through card by card and double-checking but I figured someone else would do it for me.
Interesting thought, though: I wonder which is going to be better more often? Monument is especially interesting with action-multipliers (KC, TR, RC, Procession, etc.) or cards that like actions (Pool, Minstrel, etc.) while Plunder just sits there in those kingdoms. Let's see, other than Crown, what else likes treasures? Venture? Magpie? It's not worth Counterfeiting. Hmm.
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D'oh! I only saw my mistake later when I was actually in the process of crawling toward a three-pile and realized I could have done it many turns earlier. Who designs a card that says "when you buy this, +1 buy"? Not only is Empires the "Eat Your Vegetables" expansion, it's the "I thought I knew how to play this game" expansion.
Like I mentioned in another thread, I think Empires is the most reading comprehension-intensive expansions yet. So many small things about cards that are easy to miss.
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Take Groundskeeper for instance -- it's easy to get multiples of these in play, and then all you have to do is buy a single Estate, or even a Province, which you want to do anyways. You only need to buy the one junk card to get a substantial benefit (sure, +buy makes it even better, but), and then you can trash it.
Groundskeeper is actually a perfect example. There's another factor at work here: If you're playing them and not buying VP cards, Groundskeeper itself is junk! Worse than the $2 Pearl Diver. It's a do-nothing cantrip that costs $5. That's an enormous opportunity cost. You have to carefully time when to get them.
Sure, buying a province is something that you "want to do anyways" but Groundskeepers don't make it any easier to buy them. If you're skipping draw cards, villages, or even money in order to buy GPs, then you are, in fact, slowing yourself down. If you've got enough meat to start greening, but you spend a few turns buying GPs instead of VP cards, then you're also slowing yourself down; you're just doing it before you green instead of during.
Don't get me wrong, it still definitely benefits the engine player far more than BM/Rush strategies. However, it's a real skill-tester of a card because it makes you get things you don't want much earlier than the typical build/green cycle.
Had another hard-to-figure-out game yesterday. Fantastic drawing parts, not much payload, and I had a chance to try Farmer's Market/Sacrifice as payload cards, trying to pile up non-green tokens. I lost, but If anything, it's because I under-committed to the strategy, ignoring economy too long and fiddling with cutesy things like Nobles/Duplicate when I should have just stuck with Worker's Village/Journeyman as better draw (I had some, and after Sacrificing Estates, using Journeyman naming Copper was amazing. When you're using Sacrifice/copper and Farmer's Markets, you can pretty much ignore treasure.) Empires has really changed the rhythm of the game.
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Kale and Spinach salad.
Is there such a thing? As much as I love kale cooked with varieties of smoked meat, I'd be interested in alternative recipes.
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While I love Dominion and prefer it to Catan, Catan has two mechanisms that slow down a powerful player:
A: The robber. In a 4P game the robber should be on the most powerful player's space 75% of the time (and, if the powerful player buys development cards to mitigate the robber, these are resources he could be using to build cities - if he can do both, you're screwed either way).
B: Trade embargoes. Basically when a player begins to get powerful, every other player should refuse to trade with him or her. Let them deal with the bank or ports.
Cue discussion on how any game with politics benefits people good at politics regardless of the game you are playing.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
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Take Groundskeeper for instance -- it's easy to get multiples of these in play, and then all you have to do is buy a single Estate, or even a Province, which you want to do anyways. You only need to buy the one junk card to get a substantial benefit (sure, +buy makes it even better, but), and then you can trash it.
Groundskeeper is actually a perfect example. There's another factor at work here: If you're playing them and not buying VP cards, Groundskeeper itself is junk! Worse than the $2 Pearl Diver. It's a do-nothing cantrip that costs $5. That's an enormous opportunity cost. You have to carefully time when to get them.
Sure, buying a province is something that you "want to do anyways" but Groundskeepers don't make it any easier to buy them. If you're skipping draw cards, villages, or even money in order to buy GPs, then you are, in fact, slowing yourself down. If you've got enough meat to start greening, but you spend a few turns buying GPs instead of VP cards, then you're also slowing yourself down; you're just doing it before you green instead of during.
Don't get me wrong, it still definitely benefits the engine player far more than BM/Rush strategies. However, it's a real skill-tester of a card because it makes you get things you don't want much earlier than the typical build/green cycle.
Had another hard-to-figure-out game yesterday. Fantastic drawing parts, not much payload, and I had a chance to try Farmer's Market/Sacrifice as payload cards, trying to pile up non-green tokens. I lost, but If anything, it's because I under-committed to the strategy, ignoring economy too long and fiddling with cutesy things like Nobles/Duplicate when I should have just stuck with Worker's Village/Journeyman as better draw (I had some, and after Sacrificing Estates, using Journeyman naming Copper was amazing. When you're using Sacrifice/copper and Farmer's Markets, you can pretty much ignore treasure.) Empires has really changed the rhythm of the game.
All right, I'm with you now regarding Groundskeeper. It definitely slows you down because it has a high opportunity cost and does nothing for you while it's in your deck. In a lot of ways it is in fact a lot like a Duchy or Duke, just with a cantrip effect. Interesting. The big question becomes, when do you buy them (towards the end of the game?) if at all?
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The big question becomes, when do you buy them (towards the end of the game?) if at all?
It really seems to want Goons-style multi-buys. I don't think you want them if you're just buying big-VP. It's just not worth the OC.
If I had been planning right, I could have really made it hum even better. I need to up my game to the point where I see the precise finish of the engine turn, which in this case was play highways, groundskeepers, Exactly two festivals, exactly one moat, ending up with a hand of Temple/Estate/Duchy/Provice, trashing all three, buying three more copies. I had 6 GPs and 6 Highways, so it would produce 16 VPs per turn without ever increasing in size, and on the last turn, just keep the extra 10VPs from the green cards.
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Empires is greener than a Kale and Spinach salad.
Well, it does introduce Landmarks. Lots of them ;)
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
I usually play three-player Catan with my brother and dad. The typical experience is my dad placing the robber on an "11" hex because eleven got rolled twice in the last 3-5 rolls.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
The proper move is to gang up on whatever asshole suggested you all play Catan in the first place.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
The trick about Catan is that you have to be good enough that you still win when everyone teams up against you. I think I have won maybe 30-50 games and lost like 2 or 3, despite the fact that everyone gangs up on me.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
The proper move is to gang up on whatever asshole suggested you all play Catan in the first place.
Catan's only saving grace is that it's not Monopoly
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
The proper move is to gang up on whatever asshole suggested you all play Catan in the first place.
Catan's only saving grace is that it's not Monopoly
Alas, Catan is the new Monopoly
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
The proper move is to gang up on whatever asshole suggested you all play Catan in the first place.
Catan's only saving grace is that it's not Monopoly
Alas, Catan is the new Monopoly
And Kosmos has a monopoly on Catan.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
The proper move is to gang up on whatever asshole suggested you all play Catan in the first place.
Catan's only saving grace is that it's not Monopoly
I'd prefer Monopoly. It's so passive you can more easily socialize, listen to music, or otherwise do non-Monopoly things while suffering through it, plus you get to complain about how capitalism doesn't even work when everyone starts out on equal footing.
Catan has just enough decisions to cause fairly frequent AP among inexperienced players, and we all have to spiral to the end waiting forever for key resources to pop up.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
The trick about Catan is that you have to be good enough that you still win when everyone teams up against you. I think I have won maybe 30-50 games and lost like 2 or 3, despite the fact that everyone gangs up on me.
You picked the wrong forum to brag about your Catan successes :)
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
The trick about Catan is that you have to be good enough that you still win when everyone teams up against you. I think I have won maybe 30-50 games and lost like 2 or 3, despite the fact that everyone gangs up on me.
You picked the wrong forum to brag about your Catan successes :)
I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that Catan is a great game as long as you don't suck at it.
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
The trick about Catan is that you have to be good enough that you still win when everyone teams up against you. I think I have won maybe 30-50 games and lost like 2 or 3, despite the fact that everyone gangs up on me.
Or you play online like my brother does.
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Those vegetables presumably being grown and tended to by the Groundskeeper.
which come from the Gardens!
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Catan is fun, but man it gets frustrating when all of the players are against you because you won one time.
I'm not the only one this happens to, apparently. Then they ignore you when you tell them who they should actually team against, because that person is running away with the game. Happens in Scrabble, too.
The trick about Catan is that you have to be good enough that you still win when everyone teams up against you. I think I have won maybe 30-50 games and lost like 2 or 3, despite the fact that everyone gangs up on me.
You picked the wrong forum to brag about your Catan successes :)
I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that Catan is a great game as long as you don't suck at it.
Like most games, fun if you are good. I'm pretty good, but the whole the-people-winning-are-now-winning-by-more kind of turns me off.