Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Let's Discuss ... => Topic started by: schadd on July 24, 2016, 06:10:49 pm

Title: empires: tax
Post by: schadd on July 24, 2016, 06:10:49 pm: (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/9d/Tax.jpg)
we're in just as much debt as you, ma'am. these aqueducts or whatever aren't building themselves

the only two certainties of a tax board are debt and taxes. well, i mean, people don't always buy tax. it seems kinda situational actually. the big scenario i imagine playing out with tax is, bottom of the ninth, the wharf-and-treasure-cards guy has two provinces left to add to her armada. my fairgrounds are worth 8 points but i don't actually have any of them yet. i can produce like 20 dollars each turn but that's not really gonna cut it, the game's over too fast. so, just tax province ten times and thus, enough time is bought. although, perhaps the reason that i was so far behind, in spite of there being a wharf and presumably some sort of village, is that i decided to do fairgrounds on a tax board. i mean, both she and i knew i was gonna do it regardless but still. i end up taking something like 20 debt to get all those different uniques and that's a bummer.
so, it seems like the bottom half is a bummer in general for engines (or, even more in general, for folks who want to buy a bunch of different cards) whereas the top half is neato for them. it is also incidentally good for the second player. it also makes opening two of a certain $3 more appealing (silver/silver ofc, but also stewards, swindlers, even masquerades and the like in situations where you'd usually rather not) and it likes spammy engine components like hunting party and maybe border village or something. ostensibly that sort of thing would get countered by the top half of tax, but you can always just buy a different thing and some portion of that tax will go to waste (you pay for 2 debt but the opponent only takes one for the alternative she picked up).

-do you agree with my assessments of the two things that tax does?
-what's the most satisfying use of the top half that you have executed/can think of?
-how often does it go on province? is there some reason that it would happen more or less than embargo?
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: Seprix on July 24, 2016, 07:45:36 pm: Quote from: schadd on July 24, 2016, 06:10:49 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/9d/Tax.jpg)
we're in just as much debt as you, ma'am. these aqueducts or whatever aren't building themselves

I don't think that Taxman is going to be happy he got called a girl by that dude.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: Timethief on July 25, 2016, 02:52:17 am: I only played one game with Tax so far.

The kingdom was rather cheap, 3 2$ ;2 5$, one 8 D, rest was in between.

A noticeable effect was, that the game was slower. people were reluctant to break open new piles.
The starting turns were effectively reduced by 1 - 2 $
Tax only got bought 2 or 3 times during the game, each time to seal off interesting action cards all 3 of us wanted to have.

A second effect was that the starting bonus is nullified, in fact, you start stronger as the last player in line as the most interesting opening cards may have been freed from tax.

I think Overlord and BoM benefit hugely from this event. (I had Overlord in the kingdom, though no one else grabbed one.) You sometimes want one special card in your deck.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: trivialknot on July 25, 2016, 12:37:58 pm: I played one game of Tax, and there was no +Buy. Under those conditions, the top part of the event wasn't very useful. It was only bought a few times when people had really dud turns. And it didn't actually do anything, because we often overdrew our money and could immediately payoff the debt. I think Tax would be much more useful with +Buy.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: ben_king on July 25, 2016, 03:28:11 pm: Tax is an event that pushes you toward building an engine (as long as there are buys on the board). The engine player can relentlessly punish the non-engine player by buying multiple taxes every turn.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: diedre91 on July 25, 2016, 05:02:30 pm: Interesting embargo-variant card. It will change openings because of the "setup" part.
Like embargo, sometimes it might hurt yourself more than your opponent.

Suppose you open 5/2 with sea hag on the board. Your opponent opens 3/4.
Buy Sea Hag on T1, pay 1 debt and Tax Sea Hag on T2.
Your opponent now have to spend $6 to buy that Hag!! (if he does not buy it on his T1)

Quote from: trivialknot on July 25, 2016, 12:37:58 pm
I played one game of Tax, and there was no +Buy. Under those conditions, the top part of the event wasn't very useful. It was only bought a few times when people had really dud turns. And it didn't actually do anything, because we often overdrew our money and could immediately payoff the debt. I think Tax would be much more useful with +Buy.
I agree. However with +Buy it would be strong enough to cost $3 instead.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: Chris is me on July 26, 2016, 11:40:38 am: I like the lack of +Buy because it helps prevent a lot of crazy scenarios where you have a bunch of money and basically prevent anyone from doing anything. You have to really work (i.e. Build a big engine) to put a shit ton of Debt on a pile, and that keeps the game from being too shitty.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: ackmondual on February 28, 2017, 12:36:47 am: Still have problems utilizing this one. I'll pay $2 leftover, or $2 with 1 buy and nothing better to do to Tax a pile that I know I won't go for.

The start of the game definitely has an interesting "game of chicken" going on, as some players will lean towards letting other players take on the debt instead. Last but not least, this also nudges players toward Events, as those remain duty free.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: McGarnacle on February 28, 2017, 07:34:25 am: I find it to work like Embargo. By the one great card, tax it so your opponent doesn't have any.
Title: Re: empires: tax
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on February 28, 2017, 08:33:10 am: It was such a slog