If it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.
If it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.
Salt the Earth
Even then, the game ends before the "between turn" phase where Mountain Pass does it's thingIf it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.
Salt the Earth
Even then, the game ends before the "between turn" phase where Mountain Pass does it's thingIf it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.
Salt the Earth
Maybe I'm UNDERthinking this, but in a 2-player game, I'm going to simply ask myself 1) how much is my deck generating per turn, and 2) how many lost turns is 8 VP going to be worth to me, then bid accordingly. I might even go a bit lower if I feel my opponent's deck is not generating much money.
Purely speculating, but the person gaining the first Province will have the upper-hand. If I gain it, then even if my opponent doesn't want/need the VP, they will still pretty much have to bid at least something for it, so that I don't get it for free. And then, I'll have the option of just letting them rack up the debt if I want. It reminds me of the you-cut-I'll-choose (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_choose) situation -- the cutter's (the one not gaining the first Province) best-case-scenario is they get an even share of the cake, while they chooser's (the one gaining the first Province) worst-case-scenario is they get an even share of the cake and their best-case is they get everything. Not a 100% comparison, I just thought of it.
Second player should pass about 50% of the time.
Second player should pass about 50% of the time.
It would be cool if (the new) Dominion online had a way to measure this. I wonder if it would be higher or lower than 50%. My guess is that it would be higher, as the majority of online players are probably pretty casual, and just want to "have fun" and bid away at whatever (kind of like how casual online poker players just throw their money around (https://www.cardschat.com/f57/why-players-go-all-in-first-216806/)). Then again, by that logic, the first bidder would do the same. So maybe less than 50%?
June 2016 | inception. Early concern about Mountain Pass bidding strategy arouses |
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Geronimoo posted about simulating this with a static bid in BMU vs BMU, and has people guessing the results. I have comments, but thought people might not want their guesses to be influenced, so I am posting them here:
I won't be surprised if in BMU vs BMU the value is quite low. The problem I see is that there is still an even number of Provinces. Losing a turn to pay off the debt may directly cause you to lose you the Province split in BMU, especially from second position. Even if you get an extra Duchy along with these 8 points, it won't get you the 12VP you need to make up for losing the Provinces 3-5.
I also won't be surprised if I am just dead wrong here.
I understand your reasoning, but I really don't see anything at or below 8 as a possible right answer. I mean, it's as if they're selling an extra (super-)province, and you want to win the split 5-4. Refusing to pay more than 8 for the most "comfortable" Province can't be the right answer there.One difference is that you buy regular Provinces at a time to suit you. the Mountain Pass might turn up at a really inconvenient moment.
I understand your reasoning, but I really don't see anything at or below 8 as a possible right answer. I mean, it's as if they're selling an extra (super-)province, and you want to win the split 5-4. Refusing to pay more than 8 for the most "comfortable" Province can't be the right answer there.One difference is that you buy regular Provinces at a time to suit you. the Mountain Pass might turn up at a really inconvenient moment.
I don't have a feel for how that could pan out.
Even then, the game ends before the "between turn" phase where Mountain Pass does it's thingIf it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.
Salt the Earth
No, because they'll stick their Possession in an Archive and wait for you to pay off your own debt before playing it?
No, because they'll stick their Possession in an Archive and wait for you to pay off your own debt before playing it?
I have not done more than read the cards and the Debt entry in the wiki, but here is what I am thinking:
I build a reliable Possession deck (at least one Possession play per turn).
You gain the first province after I have at least one Possession.
I immediately bid 40 debt.
When I Possess your deck, I am making decisions that you officially carry out. As such, you have no debt to pay back. I can keep gaining cards after you buy them.
You Possess my deck, you are making decisions that I officially carry out. I officially have 40 debt and those must be paid back before I can buy anything; you can gain no cards until the debt is paid.
I could be parsing wrongly here, but I think this is how you resolve debt & Possession.
Hey, this is pretty interesting. Here's a general solution:
Suppose each player has a value in debt which they value to 8VP at, and that this is common knowledge to everyone. Further assume that extra debt or less debt than this amount has linear value, which is the same for everyone. Now:
2 player: Bid the average of the two values, and the player who bought the province will have two equally good options. The player who values 8VP more highly benefits.
Who owns mountainpassbiddingstrategy.com?
Sadly it just redirects to here :(
If it's the last Province, bid <40>
If it's the last Province, nobody gets to bid.