Donate. Wow.
Donate. Wow.
Ninja'd by seconds. OMGWTFBBQ
So, is anyone up for a first impressions stream? The ones that usually do it are testers who are not allowed to.
So, is anyone up for a first impressions stream? The ones that usually do it are testers who are not allowed to.
That actually sounds like fun. I might be up for it tonight. I'd review them blind.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
Wanna do one together? Having a conversation about the cards sounds fun to me.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
Wanna do one together? Having a conversation about the cards sounds fun to me.
Count me in! Furiously wiki-ing at the moment.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
Wanna do one together? Having a conversation about the cards sounds fun to me.
Count me in! Furiously wiki-ing at the moment.
While you're at that, can you add the subreddit to the front page of the wiki with the other community links? I tried to do it the other day and couldn't figure out how.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
Wanna do one together? Having a conversation about the cards sounds fun to me.
Count me in! Furiously wiki-ing at the moment.
I'd be down for helping with a first impressions stream, if anyone cares what I think about anything.
Wanna do one together? Having a conversation about the cards sounds fun to me.
Count me in! Furiously wiki-ing at the moment.
I've got a league match at ~9 EDT but otherwise I'm free from 8 PM EDT until whenever. If scheduling doesn't work / you guys wanna do this during my match no big deal; otherwise I'd love to try this.
So, is anyone up for a first impressions stream? The ones that usually do it are testers who are not allowed to.
That actually sounds like fun. I might be up for it tonight. I'd review them blind.
Having Donate and Tomb in the same game would completely mess with the end game.
I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.
First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.
I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.
I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.
First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.
I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.
I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?
So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.
And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.
I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.
First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.
I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.
I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?
So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.
And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.
Donate happens after your turn ends, at which point you have no money.
are we gonna call it "buying a Salt the Earth" or just "Salting the Earth"?
Yeah, I forgot that bit when I was posting. So, theoretically, you could have nothing but gold in your deck, and enough of it to buy a Province every turn, in four turns.I thought of a beautiful thing while reading the rulebook. It'll be difficult to pull off, but it would be great if it works.
First turn, buy Donate. Take the 8 debt, and trash everything except for 5 copper. Pay off the debt, but don't buy any cards when the debt is payed off. It'll take 2 turns to pay off the debt, leaving you with 2 coin left. DON'T SPEND IT. On the third turn after buying Donate, use your 5 copper to buy Windfall. Gain the 3 golds. Turn after that, Donate again to trash the rest of your copper. Pay off the debt that turn as well, if you can. Then feel free to Windfall to your heart's desire, or just buy all the Provinces.
I don't know how I thought of that, but I'm glad I did.
I'm not 100% sure on how Debt works, being that I've never played with it, but don't you have some money after you buy Donate, that you can pay off with?
So after you buy it, you spend whatever money you started with to remove some of the Debt, giving you good odds to pay the rest of it off on turn 2 with your 5 copper and Windfall turn 3.
And on turn 4 you Donate, then Windfall turn 5, and just buy Provinces turns 6-9 with decent likelihood to not draw all 3 Provinces for the last buy.
I think SCSN has a new favorite event in Delve.
Is it significant that Ritual uses past tense ("+1VP per $1 it cost") compared to, say, Apprentice, which uses present tense ("+1 Card per $ is costs")? I would assume that Ritual is intended to work the same as most other things, which look at the properties of a card after it's trashed. But the use of past tense might suggest it looks at the properties of the card at the time of trashing.The cards have to be interpreted according to the wordings they actually have, but it wasn't "supposed to matter," it just happens to say what it does.
So far, the Donate+Windfall situation I described is the only really 'excellent' way to play Donate I can think of. In any other situation, I'd probably also prefer Chapel.I think SCSN has a new favorite event in Delve.
Well, I think he'll love Bandit Fort.
I don't think Donate will be quite as amazing as it looks at first. Yes, it's crazy, but you'll probably only want to buy it once because of the cost, and it'll be hard knowing when to do that. I think Chapel is probably still better. Obviously Donate is great against junkers but so is Chapel and it costs way less. Just saying it's probably not quite as broken as you'd think.
Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.Yep sounds right to me
What happens to obelisk when there is no action supply pile?fail
Does it just fail to choose one or does the game break?
What happens to obelisk when there is no action supply pile?
Does it just fail to choose one or does the game break?
Sorry; I guess I'm being slow, but I can't tell for sure from your response: does that mean Ritual should be interpreted as checking the cost of the card in the past (i.e. at the time of trashing)?Is it significant that Ritual uses past tense ("+1VP per $1 it cost") compared to, say, Apprentice, which uses present tense ("+1 Card per $ is costs")? I would assume that Ritual is intended to work the same as most other things, which look at the properties of a card after it's trashed. But the use of past tense might suggest it looks at the properties of the card at the time of trashing.The cards have to be interpreted according to the wordings they actually have, but it wasn't "supposed to matter," it just happens to say what it does.
Seems to me that the right use of Detonate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy detonate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
Any recommendations on choosing the pile for Obelisk?
Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
Hmm.. Well I think the the move a token rule would also apply to any Treasure that gets VP tokens on it, such as gatherers. But I didn't check to see if there are any treasure-gathering.
Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.No aquaduct applies to any treasure you gain and it says in the rules that you can do both if you gain something like a harem(treasure/action). so you have two reactions in which you get to choose the order, so you move 1 victory token onto aqueduct and then gain any victory points that are on aqueduct. or you can choose the opposite gain the victory points stored on it and move 1 victory token to aqueduct.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles.
Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.No aquaduct applies to any treasure you gain and it says in the rules that you can do both if you gain something like a harem(treasure/action). so you have two reactions in which you get to choose the order, so you move 1 victory token onto aqueduct and then gain any victory points that are on aqueduct. or you can choose the opposite gain the victory points stored on it and move 1 victory token to aqueduct.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
You beat me to it! But you would also have to have Inherited Crown to make it into both a treasure and a victory card before the Aqueduct clarification comes into play.Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
Hmm.. Well I think the the move a token rule would also apply to any Treasure that gets VP tokens on it, such as gatherers. But I didn't check to see if there are any treasure-gathering.
Ah ha... If you have both Crown and Defiled Shrine in the game, then you'll have another treasure pile with vp tokens on it. So Aqueduct should steal tokens from that to I would think.
One thing I feel Empires attacks seem on the weak sideThey are strong in an engine weak in bm. That's mostly because you have to work to get their benefit.
You beat me to it! But you would also have to have Inherited Crown to make it into both a treasure and a victory card before the Aqueduct clarification comes into play.Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
Hmm.. Well I think the the move a token rule would also apply to any Treasure that gets VP tokens on it, such as gatherers. But I didn't check to see if there are any treasure-gathering.
Ah ha... If you have both Crown and Defiled Shrine in the game, then you'll have another treasure pile with vp tokens on it. So Aqueduct should steal tokens from that to I would think.
You're correct. Never mind, then!You beat me to it! But you would also have to have Inherited Crown to make it into both a treasure and a victory card before the Aqueduct clarification comes into play.Haven't read any other threads about the new reveals and I'm still compiling one big post of first impressions. Just wanted to put this out first on its own, since it includes a question.
Aqueduct - The clarification is confusing to me... Doesn't the Treasure part only apply to Silver and Gold? So buying Humble Castle or Harem should only let you take VP, not move any VP to Aqueduct? I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles. Or am I misreading something?
Hmm.. Well I think the the move a token rule would also apply to any Treasure that gets VP tokens on it, such as gatherers. But I didn't check to see if there are any treasure-gathering.
Ah ha... If you have both Crown and Defiled Shrine in the game, then you'll have another treasure pile with vp tokens on it. So Aqueduct should steal tokens from that to I would think.
That doesn't work does it? The Estates pile can't have VP tokens on it, so the clarification still can't matter.
Seems to me that the right use of Detonate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy detonate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
That's what I'm thinking. Also, this seems better than Chapel since you can build a little before Detonating your deck. Chapel eats up those early turns and misses shuffles or estates, etc.
Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
I feel like its main purpose was to make junking attacks utterly irrelevant, but... that too.
Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
I feel like its main purpose was to make junking attacks utterly irrelevant, but... that too.
Junking attacks aren't irrelevant though. If you junk them after they've Donated the first time, you'll slow them down again. If you do it enough, you may get them to buy Donate again, which isn't trivial.
It does neuter the -VP of Curses though, if they can Donate right before the end of the game.
Forum - One of the more vanilla cards. a 1-card improvement on Warehouse, letting you sift and cycle without reducing handsize. The on-buy doesn't seem so significant, but it makes its cost a little lower.I've been thinking of Forum as basically Fugitive's big brother
Advance - Suddenly Ruins are valuable?? This really shakes up the game, potentially making expensive key cards a lot easier to pick up.It also likes Necropolis. Could we manage a 6/5 opening before? And that's before you even consider stuff like Baker.
Seems to me that the right use of Donate is to first buy cards which give some economy without any regard for thinning and then buy donate, trash all 10 starting cards, and transition into an engine.
I feel like its main purpose was to make junking attacks utterly irrelevant, but... that too.
Junking attacks aren't irrelevant though. If you junk them after they've Donated the first time, you'll slow them down again. If you do it enough, you may get them to buy Donate again, which isn't trivial.
It does neuter the -VP of Curses though, if they can Donate right before the end of the game.
Don't forget that it's essentially free when you buy it, and if they already have enough good cards (that are just getting blocked by the junk) they can pay off the debt really easily in the next turn or two. I was thinking more along the lines of "Donate is on the board, do I really want to get this Mountebank instead of building my engine?"
Labyrinth - Simply encourages +Buy. Not mind-shattering, but they can't all be so.
Sorry; I guess I'm being slow, but I can't tell for sure from your response: does that mean Ritual should be interpreted as checking the cost of the card in the past (i.e. at the time of trashing)?Since it says "cost" instead of "costs," it goes by what the card cost then, not what it costs now. If this causes a problem I will switch it but having not given it any thought yet, that's how it works.
Also this wording is simpler.I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles.
Bingo.
For anyone who has the physical copy of the rulebook - does it have the Empires logo off-center like the PDF does?Yes. Thanks; reported.
I'm not sure of the thematic narrative. Buying an Encampment is like setting up an army for your legions? But your legions will desert you if you don't show them you can pay?Encampments move around. And yes your army seriously cares about pay.
Charm looks pretty awesome. The fact that it activates on every buy while also potentially providing Buys makes it a mini-Haggler that is weaker when greening but has the same crazy 3-pile potential, but is easier to fit into a deck.It doesn't. It's "the next time you buy a card this turn..."
Charm looks pretty awesome. The fact that it activates on every buy while also potentially providing Buys makes it a mini-Haggler that is weaker when greening but has the same crazy 3-pile potential, but is easier to fit into a deck.It doesn't. It's "the next time you buy a card this turn..."
Also, no junking Attack other than Catapult, and no trashing attack other than Enchantress.
Interesting.
Also, no junking Attack other than Catapult, and no trashing attack other than Enchantress.
Interesting.
Indeed, no trashing attack including Enchantress.
Mountain Pass - OK, so this is the card with bidding. I'm guessing that this encourages buying a Province early, for the advantage of being the last to bid. 8VP is significant, and Debt does make it an easier "buy". I can't see it ever being a good idea to bid <40> on this in a real game. The unlikely edge case I can come up with is if Salt the Earth has already drained most of the pile, so securing this Province will get you the win. Hm, a similar alternative is if this 8VP will guarantee you at least half of the total VP available in the game, which is unlikely since there will usually be 7+ more Provinces to go (and with Empires, probably more ways to get VP tokens). So what's an actual appropriate bid? Province is 6VP for $8 and Colony is 10 VP for $11. The average of those is 8VP for $9.5, but this is in debt and it's VP tokens with no dead card attached... <10> sounds like a great deal, and even up to around <14> is probably still good? Man, I don't know. Could also flip this around and wonder what the lowest reasonable bid is... I guess you may not want any debt at all if you have a very precise plan to empty piles for a win, but that's tough to work out from just a starting hand.
Bandit Fort or how to play Dominion: highly professional tip for mediocre Dominion players in only one sentence!Between Bandit Fort and Donate, I think that's this expansion's theme: git gud.
I think bidding first is better if both players are perfect. The only advantage of going last is that you have to think less about what you bid. If both players know what the 8VP are "worth" in the situation, the first player to bid just bids that exact amount. the second player can't do that.
Mountain Pass - OK, so this is the card with bidding. I'm guessing that this encourages buying a Province early, for the advantage of being the last to bid. 8VP is significant, and Debt does make it an easier "buy". I can't see it ever being a good idea to bid <40> on this in a real game. The unlikely edge case I can come up with is if Salt the Earth has already drained most of the pile, so securing this Province will get you the win. Hm, a similar alternative is if this 8VP will guarantee you at least half of the total VP available in the game, which is unlikely since there will usually be 7+ more Provinces to go (and with Empires, probably more ways to get VP tokens). So what's an actual appropriate bid? Province is 6VP for $8 and Colony is 10 VP for $11. The average of those is 8VP for $9.5, but this is in debt and it's VP tokens with no dead card attached... <10> sounds like a great deal, and even up to around <14> is probably still good? Man, I don't know. Could also flip this around and wonder what the lowest reasonable bid is... I guess you may not want any debt at all if you have a very precise plan to empty piles for a win, but that's tough to work out from just a starting hand.
Delve - Makes Silver cheaper to buy. Simple enough. I don't expect this to make a difference on most boards. It could make Silver-favouring cards (Feodum and Conquest?) more viable though, and it may give an edge to Big Money strategies where they otherwise wouldn't be competitive. Hmm.Don't forget the +buy - it's not just cheaper, it's more easily multi-buyable, meaning $4's a ton better if you want silvers.
I want to play Obelisk-Rats.With the perfect setup this could be a thing, training on rats and use dominate/salt the earth for VP.
Also this wording is simpler.I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles.
Bingo.
One thing I'm confused about though is with capital can you pay off the debt on your clean-up phase then or do you still have to wait next turn to pay it off? I would guess that you would have to pay it off next turn, but the rules say that you have a extra chance then to pay your debt on your clean up phase if I'm reading it right, but that's when you've already discarded all your actions and treasures.It says you can pay it off at the end of your turn on the card.
The problem is you don't get the debt until you discard it from play and the only way to really discard it from play is go directly to your clean-up phase at which point your already going to be discarding all your actions and treasures that gave you the money in the first place unless somehow that money is still retained on your clean-up phase so I'm not sure.One thing I'm confused about though is with capital can you pay off the debt on your clean-up phase then or do you still have to wait next turn to pay it off? I would guess that you would have to pay it off next turn, but the rules say that you have a extra chance then to pay your debt on your clean up phase if I'm reading it right, but that's when you've already discarded all your actions and treasures.It says you can pay it off at the end of your turn on the card.
I think it's pretty clear you return BoM to the supply, because the effect is set up as you set the card aside and not later. You return the card to its normal pile.
I'm not sure I get how D(et)onate works. "After your turn", that means after discarding everything from play, right? But is it before or after drawing 5 cards?
And how do you "shuffle your hand into your deck", when everything is already in your hand?
The problem is you don't get the debt until you discard it from play and the only way to really discard it from play is go directly to your clean-up phase at which point your already going to be discarding all your actions and treasures that gave you the money in the first place unless somehow that money is still retained on your clean-up phase so I'm not sure.One thing I'm confused about though is with capital can you pay off the debt on your clean-up phase then or do you still have to wait next turn to pay it off? I would guess that you would have to pay it off next turn, but the rules say that you have a extra chance then to pay your debt on your clean up phase if I'm reading it right, but that's when you've already discarded all your actions and treasures.It says you can pay it off at the end of your turn on the card.
Also, nobody has mentioned it yet, so I'll point out the obvious: Forum+cost reduction is the insta-pile card that we've all been waiting for.
Ahh I see, I didn't know that but that makes sense. thanks Mic QsenochThe problem is you don't get the debt until you discard it from play and the only way to really discard it from play is go directly to your clean-up phase at which point your already going to be discarding all your actions and treasures that gave you the money in the first place unless somehow that money is still retained on your clean-up phase so I'm not sure.One thing I'm confused about though is with capital can you pay off the debt on your clean-up phase then or do you still have to wait next turn to pay it off? I would guess that you would have to pay it off next turn, but the rules say that you have a extra chance then to pay your debt on your clean up phase if I'm reading it right, but that's when you've already discarded all your actions and treasures.It says you can pay it off at the end of your turn on the card.
You still have any leftover money during your clean-up phase. Money isn't tied to having Treasures or whatever in play, it's just tied to having played them sometime earlier during your turn.
Donate - Wow, this turns the game on its head.
Mountain Pass - OK, so this is the card with bidding[...]
Also, nobody has mentioned it yet, so I'll point out the obvious: Forum+cost reduction is the insta-pile card that we've all been waiting for.
Villa works as well.
Also, nobody has mentioned it yet, so I'll point out the obvious: Forum+cost reduction is the insta-pile card that we've all been waiting for.
So if I play Overlord as BoM as Conspirator, do I get the +1 Card, +1 Action when I play Conspirator for playing 3 actions?
Messenger or Ambassador on a split pile - how does that work? Do you stop when you run out of the similarly named card, or continue digging down the pile?
I think SCSN has a new favorite event in Delve.
So if I play Overlord as BoM as Conspirator, do I get the +1 Card, +1 Action when I play Conspirator for playing 3 actions?
So if I play Overlord as BoM as Conspirator, do I get the +1 Card, +1 Action when I play Conspirator for playing 3 actions?
Sadly not. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11518.msg402429#msg402429)
But you presumably do get the benefit of any of your tokens on Overlord, on BoM and on what you play BoM as. That alone could be an epic hack to get around Teacher's restriction.
I don't think Donate will be quite as amazing as it looks at first. Yes, it's crazy, but you'll probably only want to buy it once because of the cost, and it'll be hard knowing when to do that.One use case I can think of: when you have a 4/3 or 3/4 split and there's a $5 card you really must have ASAP.
Delve - Makes Silver cheaper to buy. Simple enough. I don't expect this to make a difference on most boards. It could make Silver-favouring cards (Feodum and Conquest?) more viable though, and it may give an edge to Big Money strategies where they otherwise wouldn't be competitive. Hmm.Don't forget the +buy - it's not just cheaper, it's more easily multi-buyable, meaning $4's a ton better if you want silvers.
OK. I grant that you sound like you know what you're talking about, but is there any evidence the ruling in the Wiki is more recent than the ruling in that thread?Sadly not. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11518.msg402429#msg402429)Happily so. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits#Other_Rules_clarifications) (Donald reversed the ruling to which you linked.)
OK. I grant that you sound like you know what you're talking about, but is there any evidence the ruling in the Wiki is more recent than the ruling in that thread?Sadly not. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11518.msg402429#msg402429)Happily so. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits#Other_Rules_clarifications) (Donald reversed the ruling to which you linked.)
OK. I grant that you sound like you know what you're talking about, but is there any evidence the ruling in the Wiki is more recent than the ruling in that thread?Sadly not. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11518.msg402429#msg402429)Happily so. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits#Other_Rules_clarifications) (Donald reversed the ruling to which you linked.)
Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
Guys, I just realized: no Reaction in empires!Actually, I'm a bit surprised that all the Landmarks are green-border. Arguably, ten of the twenty-one should have been blue as they react to things which you do in game rather than affecting final scoring.
We hadn't had a Reaction-less big set since Seaside.
Encampment/Plunder: Encampment seems great. Reminds me of Co0kiel0rd's Building Cranes and Asper's Alley. I.e, a one-shot that returns itself to the supply. I wonder why it sets itself aside instead of going straight to the supply.
By the way, here's a lose-track issue that I was surprised not to see mentioned in the Encampment FAQ: Crown Encampment, +2 cards, don't have a Gold or Plunder, +2 more cards, oh goody I drew a Gold, now I want to reveal it. In this case the Encampment still returns to the supply, though, right? If you play an Encampment multiple times, you have to reveal Gold or Plunder each time in order to save it.That doesn't feel precisely like a lose-track issue.
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
Engineer: The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist.
Overlord: More great art from a new artist!
Legionary: I'm a huge fan of the art.
If we ever get a kingdom card named King, I hope it depicts a woman.There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
Not very many means there were some, so it's still accurate?? And the lack thereof might be exaggerated because history books tend to focus on the men and ignore the women.
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
Dominion isn't history though. There certainly weren't any Enchantresses or Ghost Ships or Scrying Pools or real Alchemists in historical times; so why not make the world a little better and more equal rather than constraining ourselves to the sexism of the past?
That people see the word "Engineer" and Dthink "male" is more than enough reason to not do that, really. That gender conception exists TODAY.
Wow, this is the first set with no blank cards, right? Making use of every last card.
Well, it's not the first falsehood I've ever posted here. All sweet sets.Wow, this is the first set with no blank cards, right? Making use of every last card.
Alchemy, Cornucopia, and Dark Ages also had no blanks.
Attempted a proxy game with Mountain Pass and Tax and this question came up (as it could have changed the outcome):
If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)
I see. The FAQ answers a real question that wouldn't matter with existing cards (and I wouldn't expect more VP tokens any time soon); I try to prune those these days but it's technically correct, Futurama quote.Also this wording is simpler.I'm guessing that an earlier version of Aqueduct put tokens on every Treasure pile, like Defiled Shrine puts tokens on most Action piles.
Bingo.
eHalcyon is talking about the FAQ, not the wording on the card.
I'm not sure I get how D(et)onate works. "After your turn", that means after discarding everything from play, right? But is it before or after drawing 5 cards? And how do you "shuffle your hand into your deck", when everything is already in your hand?It happens after clean-up; you already have a hand of 5 cards for next turn (that you won't keep because you Donated). "Shuffle your hand into your deck," with no deck, means your shuffled hand becomes your deck.
Attempted a proxy game with Mountain Pass and Tax and this question came up (as it could have changed the outcome):
If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)
Someone asked if Donate would still happen if you bought it when piling out the game, and Donald said no. Also, if you pile out the game in the process of trashing cards to Donate (e.g. Hunting Grounds or Catacombs), the end condition is not checked until the end of the next turn, so the game continues until at least then.
I guess we also have Sacrifice, but man, if that were the only source of Village on the board, that would probably be a hard engine to pull off.On the plus side, the combination of Sacrifice and Fortress would be pretty nifty!
If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)Look at the rules carefully. The original Dominion rulebook says "The game ends at the end of any player's turn when...".
(And, when you think about it, this is likely why Mountain Pass was worded in such a way. Otherwise, the person to the left of the current player just bids <40> and gets 8VP for free.)
By analogy, Caravan says to draw a card at the start of your next turn, but if the game ends before your next turn, you don't get to draw a card. Likewise, if you buy Mission and the last Province, you don't get a Mission turn. Or if your opponent plays an attack and you set aside Horse Traders, but your opponent then buys the last Province, you don't get to return Horse Traders to your hand or draw a card from it.If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)Look at the rules carefully. The original Dominion rulebook says "The game ends at the end of any player's turn when...".
And "Mountain Pass" happens "after that turn".
After that turn is later than at the end of it. The game ends before Mountain Pass has time to trigger.
(And, when you think about it, this is likely why Mountain Pass was worded in such a way. Otherwise, the person to the left of the current player just bids <40> and gets 8VP for free.)
Did anyone else notice that on the second page of the rulebook it says (emphasis mine):
Dominion: Empires is an expansion, and cannot be played by itself; to play with it, you need Dominion or the first edition of Intrigue, as both provide the Basic cards as well as the full rules for setup and game play.
Seems to suggest that when the next printing of Intrigue occurs it may just be a regular expansion and not a standalone set.
Seems to suggest that when the next printing of Intrigue occurs it may just be a regular expansion and not a standalone set....and therefore also not a way to be able to play with 5-6 players?
Seems to suggest that when the next printing of Intrigue occurs it may just be a regular expansion and not a standalone set....and therefore also not a way to be able to play with 5-6 players?
I can't pretend I've done that often, but when you need to, you need to. And you can have two games of Dominion going on at once, of course.
Did anyone else notice that on the second page of the rulebook it says (emphasis mine):
Dominion: Empires is an expansion, and cannot be played by itself; to play with it, you need Dominion or the first edition of Intrigue, as both provide the Basic cards as well as the full rules for setup and game play.
Seems to suggest that when the next printing of Intrigue occurs it may just be a regular expansion and not a standalone set.
(And, when you think about it, this is likely why Mountain Pass was worded in such a way. Otherwise, the person to the left of the current player just bids <40> and gets 8VP for free.)
"Each bid can be a pass, or a higher bid than the previous bid."(And, when you think about it, this is likely why Mountain Pass was worded in such a way. Otherwise, the person to the left of the current player just bids <40> and gets 8VP for free.)
Err, I don't believe that's true. Pulling from the rulebook: The 8VP is only given out to the highest bidder. This doesn't happen if there is no highest bidder. The other player(s) simply have to bid <40> as well.
It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded.""oh yeah? well i bid infinity plus two"
It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded.""oh yeah? well i bid infinity plus two"
"my dad can beat up your dad"
"I can draw my deck which includes two Expands and three Ironworks. I don't need to buy anything for the rest of the game."It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded.""oh yeah? well i bid infinity plus two"
"my dad can beat up your dad"
"Hah! I got those 8(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)!"
"Yeah, well, good luck buying anything for the rest of the game."
Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
It's yuck. The problem is it's yuck. Yuck ptui.Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
Well, there's a way to create an infinite amount of $, right?
Surely CelestialChameleon or someone else figured this out.
Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
Having a bid limit has the upside of making it crystal clear how much to bid to make sure you're winning the bid.Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
In hindsight, I kinda expected there would be more Debt cards and less vp stuff. I'm not complainin(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/bc/Coin7.png/16px-Coin7.png)g, though! :)
In hindsight, I kinda expected there would be more Debt cards and less vp stuff. I'm not complaining, though! :)
In hindsight, I kinda expected there would be more Debt cardsI think what surprises me most in that respect is that there aren't any cards you can buy at strange times, given that the buy-now-pay-later mechanic supports this.
How does salt the earth interact with rebuild?What am I missing? So far as I can see, the answer is "it doesn't".
This is a strategy question not a rules question.How does salt the earth interact with rebuild?What am I missing? So far as I can see, the answer is "it doesn't".
Well, except that VIctory cards that have been trashed by Salt the Earth can't be gained by Rebuild and vice-versa, I guess.
This is a strategy question not a rules question.How does salt the earth interact with rebuild?What am I missing? So far as I can see, the answer is "it doesn't".
Well, except that VIctory cards that have been trashed by Salt the Earth can't be gained by Rebuild and vice-versa, I guess.
In a rebuild mirror do you want to skip naming duchies so you can just salt away the provinces?
Does salt the earth help or hurt a rebuild player in a non-performing?
Having a bid limit has the upside of making it crystal clear how much to bid to make sure you're winning the bid.Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
This may prevent analysis paralysis; oh should I bid 13 or 23 or 103? Just bid 40 if you desperately want to win.
Having a bid limit has the upside of making it crystal clear how much to bid to make sure you're winning the bid.Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
This may prevent analysis paralysis; oh should I bid 13 or 23 or 103? Just bid 40 if you desperately want to win.
As long as you have a deck set up to where you don't need to buy anything the rest of the game, such as with Remodel-family cards, gainers etc., the correct bid would be infinite, since you don't care how much debt you have. Having a limit of 40 is nice since you can just say "I win the bid" and gloat as you take the whole pile of debt tokens (since there are 40 of those) rather than argue about the semantics of number theory and writing down that you have a googolplex+2 debt tokens or some such (yuck ptui, indeed).
How does salt the earth interact with rebuild?What am I missing? So far as I can see, the answer is "it doesn't".
Well, except that VIctory cards that have been trashed by Salt the Earth can't be gained by Rebuild and vice-versa, I guess.
Having a bid limit has the upside of making it crystal clear how much to bid to make sure you're winning the bid.Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
This may prevent analysis paralysis; oh should I bid 13 or 23 or 103? Just bid 40 if you desperately want to win.
The limit was added so that people would stop bidding yo' mama.
The limit was added so that people would stop bidding yo' mama.
Yo mama's so fat that when you try to trash her with catapult,the catapult gets trashed instead.your opponent has to discard down to 1 and gain 2 curses!
Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."
I don't understand why that's a problem. Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?
I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.
There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
Well, I think that bidding infinity ought to be just as valid as bidding Graham's number.
And of course, the correct response to a bid of Graham's number is Busy Beaver function of (Graham's number).
<pedant>Not so! There are number systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number) that include infinities.</pedant>
<pedant>Not so! There are number systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number) that include infinities.</pedant>
Yes, there are, and fortunately we don't use any of them when playing Dominion.
But does the rulebook specify which number system we're using? ;)It doesn't even specify bids have to be integers. But I don't think anything breaks if someone bids π? Just give them π debt tokens (improvise) so they're still in debt when they've paid $3 and lose the over-repayment when they pay $4, so they might as well have bid 4 in the first place rather than playing silly buggers?
The even better Donate/Windfall
Turn 1:
Play 5 Copper, Borrow, buy Donate, pay off 6 Debt.
Draw 4 cards.
Put your Deck and discard into your hand, Trash 3 Estate/2 Copper, Discard 5 Copper, Draw 5 Copper.
Turn 2:
Play 5 Copper, Spend Baker Token, Borrow, Pay off 2 Debt, Buy Windfall, Gain 3 Golds.
The even better Donate/Windfall
Turn 1:
Play 5 Copper, Borrow, buy Donate, pay off 6 Debt.
Draw 4 cards.
Put your Deck and discard into your hand, Trash 3 Estate/2 Copper, Discard 5 Copper, Draw 5 Copper.
Turn 2:
Play 5 Copper, Spend Baker Token, Borrow, Pay off 2 Debt, Buy Windfall, Gain 3 Golds.
This assumes you ignore the recommendation of max. 2 Events+Landmarks. Then you need the luck to deal out 4 particular cards within the first 13 or so, and you need to draw 5 Coppers, but a lot of hypothetical situations assume that. The thing that really strikes me as weird is ignoring the official recommendation.
I guess it really doesn't matter, but I wasn't sure it was a useful example... whatever.
If you want to start getting specific, how about a Shelters game with Poor House, Donate and Travelling Fair?
T1: Travelling Fair/PH/PH
T2: Donate everything except PH and Necropolis
T3: Play Necro/PH/PH, pay off debt
T4: Debt? What debt?
If you want to start getting specific, how about a Shelters game with Poor House, Donate and Travelling Fair?
T1: Travelling Fair/PH/PH
T2: Donate everything except PH and Necropolis
T3: Play Necro/PH/PH, pay off debt
T4: Debt? What debt?
If you draw Necropolis on turn 2, you can pay off your debt that turn.
If you want to start getting specific, how about a Shelters game with Poor House, Donate and Travelling Fair?
T1: Travelling Fair/PH/PH
T2: Donate everything except PH and Necropolis
T3: Play Necro/PH/PH, pay off debt
T4: Debt? What debt?
If you draw Necropolis on turn 2, you can pay off your debt that turn.
You'd also have to not draw any Copper on turn 2, which is possible but not guaranteed.
This was probably answered before for Forge, but can I:
-I buy donate.
-I put all cards in hand.
-I have (among other things) two rats and a market square in hand.
-I trash a rat, and discard market square to gain a gold.
-I draw a card from trashing rat, so I get market square back in hand.
-I trash the other rat.
-I reveal the same market square again to gain another gold.
Can I do this?
(I am wondering if there is any way to exploit putting your whole deck in hand, even though it's not your turn)
Open Banquet, gain Cache.Let me guess: wall was in the kingdom.
Fountain/Gardens game.
My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
But then why is it in the wrong place on the inlay?My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
Probably so that no card notes would span two pages.
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
Dominion isn't history though. There certainly weren't any Enchantresses or Ghost Ships or Scrying Pools or real Alchemists in historical times; so why not make the world a little better and more equal rather than constraining ourselves to the sexism of the past?
That people see the word "Engineer" and think "male" is more than enough reason to not do that, really. That gender conception exists TODAY.
There weren't very many female engineers/inventors in the Roman times. A male would have been more historically accurate, but compared to steward it's not that bad.Okay! Time for a lengthy post on my thoughts:
Engineer: The on play effect seems fine, I'll probably trash it after a few plays. The 4 debt cost is what intrigues me. It's so small it seems like it is essentially a 4 costing card. My guess is the debt cost is so it can't gain itself. Don't know why that would be too good though. I do appreciate having a wider variety of debt costs. The art seems decent, especially for a first time artist. Interesting that it features a woman, don't know what to think about that. There do need to be more cards with women but I would have put a dude on engineer.
That is the reason why there is a woman on it!
Dominion isn't history though. There certainly weren't any Enchantresses or Ghost Ships or Scrying Pools or real Alchemists in historical times; so why not make the world a little better and more equal rather than constraining ourselves to the sexism of the past?
That people see the word "Engineer" and think "male" is more than enough reason to not do that, really. That gender conception exists TODAY.
Most engineers are male. Assuming an engineer is a male isn't sexism, it's reality. When more women complete STEM in college (which is happening now) that stigma will soon vanish. Women already outnumber men in college, and that number is growing.
The blurry aesthetic is cool, really draws the set together, like the bald theme in Guilds.
The blurry aesthetic is cool, really draws the set together, like the bald theme in Guilds.
I think that's just because of poor scan quality.
But then why is it in the wrong place on the inlay?My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
Probably so that no card notes would span two pages.
We didn't think that art looked "Old."
But then why is it in the wrong place on the inlay?My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
Probably so that no card notes would span two pages.
We didn't think that art looked "Old."
Well, it could have explained why he's wearing glasses.
But then why is it in the wrong place on the inlay?My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
Probably so that no card notes would span two pages.
We didn't think that art looked "Old."
Well, it could have explained why he's wearing glasses.
I assumed it was because he was from the future, or had modern glasses delivered to him via time travel.
But then why is it in the wrong place on the inlay?My question is, if all the cards are listed in alphabetical order, then why is Royal Blacksmith found where it is?
Probably so that no card notes would span two pages.
We didn't think that art looked "Old."
Well, it could have explained why he's wearing glasses.
I assumed it was because he was from the future, or had modern glasses delivered to him via time travel.
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
Good guy possessor. Takes 8 debt tokens and let's me trash whatever cards I want.Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Edge case. That's what he wants me to do so that I clean my deck up for him.Good guy possessor. Takes 8 debt tokens and let's me trash whatever cards I want.Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to village-village-possession-possession-possession?
Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to king's court-king's court-possession-possession-possession?
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to village-village-possession-possession-possession?
The problem is... the opponent doesn't even have to mirror it, he just has to kill all his economy as well the following turn.
The problem is... the opponent doesn't even have to mirror it, he just has to kill all his economy as well the following turn.
Anticipating this, the player aiming for the multi-Possession deck might keep a single Gold with Donate. If the opponent isn't mirroring on Possession but trashes all economy/gaining, the Possession player can re-buy Silver, morph into a money deck, and win from there. But if both players build decks that can play multiple Possessions each turn, the game will just end in a stalemate.
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to village-village-possession-possession-possession?
Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.
Also... FTFY:Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to king's court-king's court-possession-possession-possession?
Oh my. Surely somebody has said it already, but I just realized: Possession+Donate is going to be so degenerate.
It shouldn't be a problem. Donate takes place after your turn, so if the Possessor has the Possessed player buy Donate, the Possessed player gets to decide what to trash.
Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to village-village-possession-possession-possession?
Yeah... so I am pretty swayed toward the degenerate case here actually. When you can reach a deck that plays more than 1 Possession a turn without falling super far behind, the goal turns into building this up as quickly as possible and then destroying your own economy. You can destroy your own economy instantly with Donate, and leave your deck in debt so your opponent can't use it. If this is mirrored, the game is locked out and you starve to death.
Also... FTFY:Will it be a problem if I donate and trash my deck down to king's court-king's court-possession-possession-possession?
I've thought a bit more about this:
Stalling and Donating all the money is strictly worse than stalling and donating everything but a copper. Your opponent can't do anything with your deck anyway, except buy coppers and curses (and poor houses and Debt stuff), which they would do anyway with their own deck if they kept a copper.
If you are ahead by more than 4-8 points, keeping a Silver's worth probably makes you win. (you slowly win by three-piling and Donating Curses, Coppers and Estates, or three 2-4$ cards as long as the extra economy needed doesn't give your opponent access to more points than just the Estate pile). If you don't have that point advantage, your opponent will probably use your not-completely-dead deck to gain more points than you do and you'll lose, so it's in your best interest to starve to death (nobody likes losing).
Supposing that the players are playing to win, and supposing that starving to death counts at best as a draw, it would be in their interest not to build a stall-inducing Possession deck unless they are going to win after most Estates go to their opponent.
So, I don't see the stall happening a lot of the time. You don't often have both a point lead and the time to buy Possessions while defending that lead.
(the long and drawn-out endgame of such a scenario might offer some small chances for the losing player to build up a sloggish deck with coppers silvers and Estates and lucksnipe a couple of Duchies while their opponent does not. Thus, they unfortunately might not want to resign right away)
Possession/Donate stuff
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
Awesome, can't wait to see the completed thing. This is including the split card randomizers?
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
Awesome, can't wait to see the completed thing. This is including the split card randomizers?
Yep! Those randomizers are lowest priority right now, though.
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
Awesome, can't wait to see the completed thing. This is including the split card randomizers?
Yep! Those randomizers are lowest priority right now, though.
Of course, gotta have the actual cards that are played with looking nice first. Any idea how they'll be made selectable in the wiki?
I mean, Knights, Ruins and Castles have names of their own that you click on, but the naming system for the other multicard piles feature Card1/Card2 as their names.
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
Awesome, can't wait to see the completed thing. This is including the split card randomizers?
Yep! Those randomizers are lowest priority right now, though.
Of course, gotta have the actual cards that are played with looking nice first. Any idea how they'll be made selectable in the wiki?
I mean, Knights, Ruins and Castles have names of their own that you click on, but the naming system for the other multicard piles feature Card1/Card2 as their names.
My current plan is to just use the top card in the pile when using the Kingdom template, and put the randomizers into the Split pile article, except for the Castles randomizer, which goes on the Castles page. I don't see a point in having a separate card1/card2 article.
EDIT: Also, Jesus, there's a lot of blood on Conquest's art. I think that's the most blood we've ever seen on a card before.
(picture removed for sanity's sake)
All the Secret Histories have been added to the wiki. Working on card scans now.
Awesome, can't wait to see the completed thing. This is including the split card randomizers?
Yep! Those randomizers are lowest priority right now, though.
Of course, gotta have the actual cards that are played with looking nice first. Any idea how they'll be made selectable in the wiki?
I mean, Knights, Ruins and Castles have names of their own that you click on, but the naming system for the other multicard piles feature Card1/Card2 as their names.
My current plan is to just use the top card in the pile when using the Kingdom template, and put the randomizers into the Split pile article, except for the Castles randomizer, which goes on the Castles page. I don't see a point in having a separate card1/card2 article.
EDIT: Also, Jesus, there's a lot of blood on Conquest's art. I think that's the most blood we've ever seen on a card before.
(picture removed for sanity's sake)
All of this over two Silvers. Yikes.
Other Rules clarifications: You receive +1VP.png from all Victory cards in play, including your opponents'.
QuoteOther Rules clarifications: You receive +1VP.png from all Victory cards in play, including your opponents'.
Saw this pop up while I was wandering the wiki. I don't know how an opponent might be able to have a victory card in play during your turn. I don't think there are any Action-Victory-Duration cards, for example.
QuoteOther Rules clarifications: You receive +1VP.png from all Victory cards in play, including your opponents'.
Saw this pop up while I was wandering the wiki. I don't know how an opponent might be able to have a victory card in play during your turn. I don't think there are any Action-Victory-Duration cards, for example.
EDIT: How do you get the VP symbol to show up? I want to replace "VP.png" up there with it.
QuoteOther Rules clarifications: You receive +1VP.png from all Victory cards in play, including your opponents'.
Saw this pop up while I was wandering the wiki. I don't know how an opponent might be able to have a victory card in play during your turn. I don't think there are any Action-Victory-Duration cards, for example.
EDIT: How do you get the VP symbol to show up? I want to replace "VP.png" up there with it.
You can gain cards when it isn't your turn. :)
They could Inherit a Duration.
what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???Rare ungulants.
They could Inherit a Duration.Or a Caravan Guard.
And here the mandatory art commentary:
It might be an effect of the low resolution, but Charm must really be magic. How else could it be floating a few centimeters above the table? It must also have the power of not casting shadows (a power it shares with the candles).
Some of the worst of Dominion.
I don't want to give a commentary on art until I see the full resolution. Some of the good art shown in the previews looks bad in the low res.
And here the mandatory art commentary:
It might be an effect of the low resolution, but Charm must really be magic. How else could it be floating a few centimeters above the table? It must also have the power of not casting shadows (a power it shares with the candles).
Some of the worst of Dominion.I don't want to give a commentary on art until I see the full resolution. Some of the good art shown in the previews looks bad in the low res.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/de/Charm.jpg/374px-Charm.jpg)
I can now safely say, I preferred it when it was in low resolution. 'Cause now the tall candle is floating too.
The dodecahedron is rotated towards us with respect to the table. No shadows at all on the table, not even directly below the floating dodecahedron thing.
The candles have different shadowing than the rest.
It's not even half-baked art, it's just a mess.
And here the mandatory art commentary:
It might be an effect of the low resolution, but Charm must really be magic. How else could it be floating a few centimeters above the table? It must also have the power of not casting shadows (a power it shares with the candles).
Some of the worst of Dominion.I don't want to give a commentary on art until I see the full resolution. Some of the good art shown in the previews looks bad in the low res.
I can now safely say, I preferred it when it was in low resolution. 'Cause now the tall candle is floating too.
The dodecahedron is rotated towards us with respect to the table. No shadows at all on the table, not even directly below the floating dodecahedron thing.
The candles have different shadowing than the rest.
It's not even half-baked art, it's just a mess.
Dodecahedron? You mean that floating proximity mine from the 31st century?
EDIT: Also, Jesus, there's a lot of blood on Conquest's art. I think that's the most blood we've ever seen on a card before.
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Bubbles? Some sort of scented oil? What sort of decadent aristocrats take baths in just plain water?
Also, I have to say that Baths is my new favorite thematic thing in Dominion. You neglect your royal duties to go lounge about in a spa and somehow this earns you victory points.
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Bubbles? Some sort of scented oil? What sort of decadent aristocrats take baths in just plain water?
Also, I have to say that Baths is my new favorite thematic thing in Dominion. You neglect your royal duties to go lounge about in a spa and somehow this earns you victory points.
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Bubbles? Some sort of scented oil? What sort of decadent aristocrats take baths in just plain water?
Also, I have to say that Baths is my new favorite thematic thing in Dominion. You neglect your royal duties to go lounge about in a spa and somehow this earns you victory points.
I would guess that it's filled with water from the bath, for pouring over oneself.
Thank you for posting the high-resolution scans.
Thank you for posting the high-resolution scans.
You're welcome! Everything is uploaded now, including Split pile randomizers.
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Bubbles? Some sort of scented oil? What sort of decadent aristocrats take baths in just plain water?
Also, I have to say that Baths is my new favorite thematic thing in Dominion. You neglect your royal duties to go lounge about in a spa and somehow this earns you victory points.
I would guess that it's filled with water from the bath, for pouring over oneself.
Then why is it yellow???
Okay, these three Landmarks are definitely Lynell Ingram's best artwork to date, but what the hell is the lady on the left just casually pouring into the bath???
Bubbles? Some sort of scented oil? What sort of decadent aristocrats take baths in just plain water?
Also, I have to say that Baths is my new favorite thematic thing in Dominion. You neglect your royal duties to go lounge about in a spa and somehow this earns you victory points.
I would guess that it's filled with water from the bath, for pouring over oneself.
Then why is it yellow???
Lighting!
Speaking of lighting, I'm sure you could change your avatar to Charm, eHalcyon, and no one would notice the difference.
Are they forcing her to salt the earth because she didn't pay her taxes? I don't really know if that would make any sense.
Are they forcing her to salt the earth because she didn't pay her taxes? I don't really know if that would make any sense.
When I was reviewing the cards for my first impressions, I noticed that the two events looked like they featured the same woman, perhaps in the same town/city. Indeed, the art for both these events was made by the same artist. Even the guards look the same. It stood out to me because I was reviewing the events in alphabetical order and Tax immediately followed Salt the Earth in that alphabetical sort.
On the blurry scans, I couldn't be sure that the woman was the one salting the earth. I thought maybe she was watching the earth get salted and being a bit depressed about it.
Are they forcing her to salt the earth because she didn't pay her taxes? I don't really know if that would make any sense.
When I was reviewing the cards for my first impressions, I noticed that the two events looked like they featured the same woman, perhaps in the same town/city. Indeed, the art for both these events was made by the same artist. Even the guards look the same. It stood out to me because I was reviewing the events in alphabetical order and Tax immediately followed Salt the Earth in that alphabetical sort.
On the blurry scans, I couldn't be sure that the woman was the one salting the earth. I thought maybe she was watching the earth get salted and being a bit depressed about it.
I don't think it's the same woman. She's dressed differently in each picture. So are the guards.
Looking at the art for Tax and Salt the Earth, I feel like there's a story there, but I cant quite place it...
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/9d/Tax.jpg/320px-Tax.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/66/Salt_the_Earth.jpg/320px-Salt_the_Earth.jpg)
I'm pretty sure its the same woman, getting taxed and then salting the earth, but then why have the soldiers swapped sides?
I'm a wee bit disappointed that Wild hunt doesn't have anybody topdeck cards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_HuntI'm a wee bit disappointed that Wild hunt doesn't have anybody topdeck cards.
I still have no idea what the connection is between a "Wild Hunt" and a spectral hunting party. What do ghosts have to do with Empires anyway (well okay, Haunted Castle is a thing, and covers the topdeck quota of the expansion).
Looking at the art for Tax and Salt the Earth, I feel like there's a story there, but I cant quite place it...
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/9d/Tax.jpg/320px-Tax.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/66/Salt_the_Earth.jpg/320px-Salt_the_Earth.jpg)
I'm pretty sure its the same woman, getting taxed and then salting the earth, but then why have the soldiers swapped sides?
I'm pretty sure its the same woman, getting taxed and then salting the earth, but then why have the soldiers swapped sides?
QuoteI'm pretty sure its the same woman, getting taxed and then salting the earth, but then why have the soldiers swapped sides?
Look again. They're not guarding, they're coercing, hands on their swords, staring her down and making sure she obeys. Can't pay your taxes? Fine. We have no use for this land, and now neither do you.
I couldn't find any historical references to salting the earth as a punishment for not paying taxes, but plenty of references to it used as a punishment for vanquished enemies. In any case, definitely a punishment and a way to render the land useless.
This could actually work pretty well. Small amounts of salt would eventually wash away with the rain and the land would be usable again (unlike the biblical implication that it destroys the land forever) so the landowners would have a chance to recover and pay up in the future. Plus it could be applied in amounts and locations proportional to the amount of tax they owed if nothing else could be seized.
makes no sense at all.
The only problem is that it makes no sense at all.Nor does putting somebody in a debtors' prison until they can repay what they owe. The astute will realise this somewhat restricts their ability to earn the necessary money...
The only problem is that it makes no sense at all.Nor does putting somebody in a debtors' prison until they can repay what they owe. The astute will realise this somewhat restricts their ability to earn the necessary money...
...and now I feel like that's a missed opportunity for an attack in Empires. I've no idea what it would have done, but the theme would have been awesome.
The only problem is that it makes no sense at all.Nor does putting somebody in a debtors' prison until they can repay what they owe. The astute will realise this somewhat restricts their ability to earn the necessary money...
...and now I feel like that's a missed opportunity for an attack in Empires. I've no idea what it would have done, but the theme would have been awesome.
Or it could have been a debt-cost card that punishes you for not paying off the debt at the end of the next turn.
makes no sense at all.
Since when do ancient forms of punishment make sense?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_HuntI'm a wee bit disappointed that Wild hunt doesn't have anybody topdeck cards.
I still have no idea what the connection is between a "Wild Hunt" and a spectral hunting party. What do ghosts have to do with Empires anyway (well okay, Haunted Castle is a thing, and covers the topdeck quota of the expansion).
It does not have much to do with empires.
Heh. Haunting party.I'm a wee bit disappointed that Wild hunt doesn't have anybody topdeck cards.
I still have no idea what the connection is between a "Wild Hunt" and a spectral hunting party.
For the sake of clarity, if a card existed that cost 3 coin and 2 debt, could I use a card such as Armory to gain it. Would I then gain the debt? And if so, could I then pay off the debt potentially in my Buy phase?
For the sake of clarity, if a card existed that cost 3 coin and 2 debt, could I use a card such as Armory to gain it. Would I then gain the debt? And if so, could I then pay off the debt potentially in my Buy phase?
No, for the exact same reason you can't use Armory to gain a Scrying Pool. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f5/Debt3.png/18px-Debt3.png) is NOT "up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)". It doesn't matter whether the Debt cost is anywhere from 1 to anything, the fact that it's there at all makes it not cost less than something that costs only (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png).
Although i understand the misconception here a lot better than with Potions. Potions and coin is just apples to oranges. Debt on the other hand "feels" cheaper than coin. If i can afford to buy a card costing $4, i can also afford to buy a card costing 4 debt, but not vice versa. This, in a "common sense"-way, makes it easy to come to the conclusion debt was just "cheaper coins".
Although i understand the misconception here a lot better than with Potions. Potions and coin is just apples to oranges. Debt on the other hand "feels" cheaper than coin. If i can afford to buy a card costing $4, i can also afford to buy a card costing 4 debt, but not vice versa. This, in a "common sense"-way, makes it easy to come to the conclusion debt was just "cheaper coins".
I hadn't thought about it, but that's actually true. The Alchemy rulebook even compares gaining potion cost cards with buying:
"when a player uses University to Gain an action card costing up to $5, the player may not gain a card with [P] in the cost. ...
It is just like Buying a card - if a player just has $5, he cannot buy a card with [P] in the cost."
Obviously this thinking doesn't work with debt cost.
I think of debt the same way I think of imaginary numbers. This is an easy way to explain the concept to nerdy types to give an intuitive understanding of "cost more" and "cost less" situations.Um. Your mathematics is broken.
2+3i is "more than" 2+2i or 1+3i, but it is not more than (or less than) 1+4i.
new idea: $8 + 8d costs the same amount as $8√2