Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion: Nocturne Previews => Dominion: Renaissance Previews => Dominion General Discussion => Empires Previews => Topic started by: Donald X. on May 06, 2016, 10:43:16 am

Title: Teasers!
Post by: Donald X. on May 06, 2016, 10:43:16 am
Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.
- 60 VP symbols.
- 16 red hexagons.
- 10 uses of "Setup."
- 2 Duration cards.
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
- An Action-Treasure card.
- An Event costing $14.
- A way to double your money.
- A way to bid.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on May 06, 2016, 10:44:49 am
Mind=blown
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 10:45:14 am
- A way to double your money.

I wonder how long it will take the community to figure out how to do that. I doubt their will be a card which just says "double your coins".

Sounds amazing! Does anyone know exactly when it comes out?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 10:47:42 am
Also, $14 is a lot for an event. I bet it has a way to lower its cost, like Peddler. Or maybe it does just say "double your coins".
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Orange on May 06, 2016, 10:48:35 am
- A way to double your money.

I wonder how long it will take the community to figure out how to do that. I doubt their will be a card which just says "double your coins".

Sounds amazing! Does anyone know exactly when it comes out?

You just have to avoid the whammy and land on this space:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CGPPrEApYzQ/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Orange on May 06, 2016, 10:49:43 am
Dominion: Empires has:
- An Action-Treasure card.

Cool.  It seems we are going to think differently about money in this expansion.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Marcory on May 06, 2016, 10:49:51 am
- A way to double your money.

I wonder how long it will take the community to figure out how to do that. I doubt their will be a card which just says "double your coins".


If you invest your money at 5% for 14.4 years, it will double. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LaLight on May 06, 2016, 10:50:47 am
Some Event
$14

Trash a card from the supply. Double your money. Gain a duration card and an Action-Treasure card. Bid. Draw the red hexagon 16 times.

Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Put 76 cards in the supply with 60 VP symbols.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Accatitippi on May 06, 2016, 10:52:57 am
- 60 VP symbols.
- An Action-Treasure card.

These are the ones that surprised me.

60 is a lot, even assuming it counts each single card rather than different cards. 4 Action cards, 1 alt-vp, 8 uniques?
I expected we'd never see white and yellow together on a Dominion card.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Accatitippi on May 06, 2016, 10:55:34 am
Some Event
$14

Trash a card from the supply. Double your money. Gain a duration card and an Action-Treasure card. Bid. Draw the red hexagon 16 times.

Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Put 76 cards in the supply with 60 VP symbols.

That doesn't fit what Donald said.
Let me fix it:

Quote
Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Put 76 cards in the supply with 60 VP symbols.

*ducks*
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 10:56:15 am
- A way to double your money.

I wonder how long it will take the community to figure out how to do that. I doubt their will be a card which just says "double your coins".


If you invest your money at 5% for 14.4 years, it will double. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72)

At the current level of savings account rates, you could double your money in just a few thousand years!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 06, 2016, 10:57:20 am
I expect lots of VP symbols on landmarks.

I'm a bit worried about the bidding thing, I ususally don't like bidding.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 10:58:17 am
- A way to double your money.

I wonder how long it will take the community to figure out how to do that. I doubt their will be a card which just says "double your coins".


If you invest your money at 5% for 14.4 years, it will double. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72)

At the current level of savings account rates, you could double your money in just a few thousand years!
Unless you bought the event for $14!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LaLight on May 06, 2016, 10:59:30 am
Some Event
$14

Trash a card from the supply. Double your money. Gain a duration card and an Action-Treasure card. Bid. Draw the red hexagon 16 times.

Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Setup: Put 76 cards in the supply with 60 VP symbols.

That doesn't fit what Donald said.
Let me fix it:

Quote
Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Setup. Put 76 cards in the supply with 60 VP symbols.

*ducks*

Man, this is so mean. All those dots were couples. Now they're single. Look what you've done!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 06, 2016, 11:01:24 am
I expect lots of VP symbols on landmarks.

I'm a bit worried about the bidding thing, I ususally don't like bidding.

I don't like bidding either, and I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on May 06, 2016, 11:02:30 am
23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Feodum16 on May 06, 2016, 11:04:05 am
...

...

...

...

AWESOME!!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: drsteelhammer on May 06, 2016, 11:04:15 am
There is 296300 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Feodum16 on May 06, 2016, 11:07:40 am
I'm guessing the action-treasure involves a choice, like it's either $2 used as a treasure or $3 used as an action.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 11:08:01 am
There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

By my calculations, 25-26 kingdom cards and about 10 Landmarks.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 06, 2016, 11:09:14 am
I'm a bit worried about the bidding thing, I ususally don't like bidding.

Me too, but it depends on what kind of bidding.  Bidding money for something against other players, like an auction, sounds bad.  Bidding that you can accomplish some feat, like in spades, is maybe not so bad.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 06, 2016, 11:09:21 am

Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.

30 Landmarks/Events, leaves 46 peices of art. So roughly 10 piles with two different cards? Adventures had the best art so this is very welcome assuming the quality stays the same.

- 60 VP symbols.

Only 16 cards don't have VP symbols ;D. I'm assuming bishop would be counted as 2, so it's more likely only about 30 of the cards have VP symbols.

- 16 red hexagons.

New token? Probably either curse token or debt token.

- 10 uses of "Setup."

Yessssssssssssss.  :) :) :). Setup clauses are the best. I love BM and baker sooooo much. I predict at least one will add an event, simmilar to my seige.

- 2 Duration cards.

Yes! I was scared adventures would be the last of them. Probably they refer to new tokens, or they would have been in adventures.

- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.

It thought this died in seaside. I'm glad Donald is ressurecting old ideas. Prediction: Now and at the start of your next turn, each other player trashes the top card of their deck. (JK, PLZ NO). Take that all the people saying that outtakes can't work.

- An Action-Treasure card.

Never thoguht I'd see the day. This should open up a whole realm of fan card possibilities.

- An Event costing $14.

Dang. Speechless. Hope it has a cost reduction.

- A way to double your money.

This will make a lot of puzzles easier.

- A way to bid.

Seems good. Wonder if you bid with VP, or money?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Robz888 on May 06, 2016, 11:09:29 am
Between finally playing Adventures for the first time (since it came out online), just hearing about the Stef/SCSN project last week, and just now learning about Empires at this very instant, I'm more excited about the future of Dominion than I have been in years!

Dominion: Empires has:

- 10 uses of "Setup."

Bet it combos with Scout. "During setup, add Scout to the supply," probably.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Feodum16 on May 06, 2016, 11:14:34 am
Ridiculous Empires Card

Event $14

Gain 2 Duration cards. Gain a red hexagon. Gain one of the VP chips, your choice. Add Scout to the Supply. Each other player trashes a Province from their hand, or reveals a hand with no Provinces. Gain a Scout. Trash all cards in the supply costing less than $3. Pick the new Supply piles. Wait for the release date of Empires. Cards cost 1 more this turn. You may gain a Potion. Gain all of the red hexagons. Swap your deck with someone else's. Gain a Prize card. Trash the top card of your deck. You may immediately buy this card again.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Feodum16 on May 06, 2016, 11:18:16 am
The large amount of VP chips also helps scout, as it may pick one up for you thinking it's a victory card.

Also, Scout has 5 letters in its name. It costs $4, and looks at the top 4 cards of your deck. 5+(4/4)=6, so scout obviously has something to do with the hexagons (6 sides)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: pacovf on May 06, 2016, 11:20:06 am
Half-Life 3 confirmed!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: GendoIkari on May 06, 2016, 11:24:23 am
Sometimes I think that Donald bases his ideas specifically off the things that people talk about and say "you can't do that, such a thing can't work in Dominion". First it was a card costing $7. Then it was a card costing $1, and Graverobber with gaining things from the trash. Then Ratcatcher with a cheap cantrip trasher. Now an Action-Treasure. Pretty sure Duration-attacks are in there too.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 06, 2016, 11:26:04 am
I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 11:29:47 am
I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

They wanted to be able to Expand, but not Remodel, a Colony into the Event.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 06, 2016, 11:38:38 am
There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)


There's also the piles that contain 2 types of cards, so I don't think we can draw any conlcusions without knowing how many of these there are.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 06, 2016, 11:40:08 am
There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

Where did you get 296 from?  Has Donald said there are 4 blank cards?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: tastor on May 06, 2016, 11:47:00 am

- 60 VP symbols.

Only 16 cards don't have VP symbols ;D. I'm assuming bishop would be counted as 2, so it's more likely only about 30 of the cards have VP symbols.

I was thinking he is being clever and there are 6 kingdom cards with VP symbols on them, 10 cards in each pile for a total of 60. Or yeah, there are a lot of cards with double (maybe even triple?) VP symbols on them. Maybe a Victory card that also gives you VP tokens? And then don't forget the new events, those could have ways to directly buy VP tokens from the pile.

Jeez 60 is still a ton though if we're talking about symbols on unique cards.

Quote
- 2 Duration cards.

Yes! I was scared adventures would be the last of them. Probably they refer to new tokens, or they would have been in adventures.

I was thinking one of these has to be VP token based. Maybe like a reverse Swamp Hag? While it's out and people buy stuff, you get a VP token per card bought.

Man I love VP tokens though, really looking forward to the previews next week.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Beyond Awesome on May 06, 2016, 11:48:39 am
$14 Event!

Man, that's expensive.

I'm curious how this bidding card works.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Mr Anderson on May 06, 2016, 11:53:32 am
Maybe it is an event that lets you choose a card to bid for, and players bid in order how many debt tokens they will take to buy it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 11:55:10 am
$14 Event!

Man, that's expensive.

I'm curious how this bidding card works.

I'll give you $10 for it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: amoffett11 on May 06, 2016, 12:02:25 pm
I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

My guess is the $14 cost is because it's $3 more than Colony, which is $3 more than Province, which is $3 more than Duchy and so on.  So the Event is probably a source of VP, perhaps as simple as $14-> Take X VP chips, where X is some number.  My guess is that the tough decision wasn't what the Event the should cost, but rather what number of VP was a fair number, keeping in mind that a deck that reliably hits $14 every turn could add points indefinitely without bring the game to an end. 

Actually, this can't quite be it.  You could have two opponents just going back and forth buying the event, with the game never coming to a conclusion.  Maybe it's $14 -> Take X VP, trash a Victory Card from the supply, where the Victory card is either something you choose, or something predetermined like Province.  So you're adding some number of VP (is 6 too few?  is 10 too many?), a Province is removed, bringing the game closer to its end, but now you don't have a Province cluttering up your deck.  This is my guess. 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LostPhoenix on May 06, 2016, 12:08:14 pm
I'm guessing that the red hexagons are the landmarks.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 12:32:04 pm
I bet Donald is enjoying himself, hearing everyone come up with crazy theories and ideas.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Hibernator on May 06, 2016, 12:36:22 pm
I bet Donald is enjoying himself, hearing everyone come up with crazy theories and ideas.

Here's another one for the 14 coins event: gain two provinces, putting them on top of your deck.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 06, 2016, 12:37:35 pm
There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

That's definitely a lot of artwork. If a pile has "two different cards" then you might get 3 different pieces of art - one for each of the two cards and one for the randomizer, sort of like how the Knights randomizer has unique art. Still, that would be a lot of piles with more than one card or lots more events/landmarks than Adventures had.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 06, 2016, 12:39:27 pm
23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: GendoIkari on May 06, 2016, 12:40:11 pm
The trick is that all but 1 card just have a blank white space instead of art, while that 1 card has a mosaic.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Kirian on May 06, 2016, 12:48:05 pm
There is 296 cards, and 76 Artworks. With what combinations does that leave us, assuming Landmarks and Events are 1 card each and we only get Kingdom cards that have either 12 or 10 cards? (Plus randomizers)

15 Landmarks, 60 Events, and one Action-Treasure pile with 221 cards in it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Elanchana on May 06, 2016, 01:18:35 pm
PLEASE OH PLEASE let there be more Alayna Lemmer art. I love her stuff so much.

The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them. But enough on that.

Moar.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crj on May 06, 2016, 01:40:27 pm
I'm guessing the action-treasure involves a choice, like it's either $2 used as a treasure or $3 used as an action.
Given the well-understood issues with making an Action-Treasure (particularly, in your Buy phase, being able to tell whether it was played as an Action or as a Treasure) I strongly suspect it won't stay in play when played as an Action. It probably self-trashes, or returns to the supply, or turns into something else, or whatever.

e.g.

Weasel (Action Treasure, cost $4)
    Played as Treasure: $2
    Played as an Action: Trash this card. Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 01:43:36 pm
I'm guessing the action-treasure involves a choice, like it's either $2 used as a treasure or $3 used as an action.
Given the well-understood issues with making an Action-Treasure (particularly, in your Buy phase, being able to tell whether it was played as an Action or as a Treasure) I strongly suspect it won't stay in play when played as an Action. It probably self-trashes, or returns to the supply, or turns into something else, or whatever.

e.g.

Weasel (Action Treasure, cost $4)
    Played as Treasure: $2
    Played as an Action: Trash this card. Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.

Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Orange on May 06, 2016, 01:48:03 pm
I'm just rather stumped that at some point in the development process, Donald and the Playtesters (good band name) had something along the lines of the following discussion: "Yeah, this Event is too powerful to cost $13, but I don't think it's powerful enough to cost $15."

My guess is the $14 cost is because it's $3 more than Colony, which is $3 more than Province, which is $3 more than Duchy and so on.  So the Event is probably a source of VP, perhaps as simple as $14-> Take X VP chips, where X is some number.  My guess is that the tough decision wasn't what the Event the should cost, but rather what number of VP was a fair number, keeping in mind that a deck that reliably hits $14 every turn could add points indefinitely without bring the game to an end. 

Actually, this can't quite be it.  You could have two opponents just going back and forth buying the event, with the game never coming to a conclusion.  Maybe it's $14 -> Take X VP, trash a Victory Card from the supply, where the Victory card is either something you choose, or something predetermined like Province.  So you're adding some number of VP (is 6 too few?  is 10 too many?), a Province is removed, bringing the game closer to its end, but now you don't have a Province cluttering up your deck.  This is my guess.

My guess this is the way to extend the game for an engine that is running out of time.  Maybe a one-time event:  Add 6 Provinces to the Province pile.  Gain a Province.  Remove this event from the game.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: tastor on May 06, 2016, 01:50:01 pm
Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.

Yeah I'm not sure I get it either. It is obviously an issue for things like Tactician but in that case you can't play anything after Tac hits the table since you have to discard your remaining hand. I can't think of another card where it would matter what order you played it, something like Conspirator is already checking the order and the effect happens at that point, Bank likewise worries about the order you play treasures but, again, not in a way where "do you remember if you played this as a treasure or an action?" would matter. There are plenty of decision cards like Pawn and Nobles where you have to track the choice you've made and those aren't a huge problem either.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 01:54:37 pm
Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.

Yeah I'm not sure I get it either. It is obviously an issue for things like Tactician but in that case you can't play anything after Tac hits the table since you have to discard your remaining hand. I can't think of another card where it would matter what order you played it, something like Conspirator is already checking the order and the effect happens at that point, Bank likewise worries about the order you play treasures but, again, not in a way where "do you remember if you played this as a treasure or an action?" would matter. There are plenty of decision cards like Pawn and Nobles where you have to track the choice you've made and those aren't a huge problem either.

Hmm?  I mean it doesn't have to be 'played as an Action' or 'played as a Treasure' as different things.  It's just played, as both an Action and a Treasure, whether or not you play it in your Action phase or your Buy phase. 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 06, 2016, 02:09:21 pm
The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: tastor on May 06, 2016, 02:15:03 pm
Hmm?  I mean it doesn't have to be 'played as an Action' or 'played as a Treasure' as different things.  It's just played, as both an Action and a Treasure, whether or not you play it in your Action phase or your Buy phase.

Hah yeah sorry I was agreeing with you. I was trying to think through the other scenarios where "you can't make an action-treasure because it would matter when you play it" actually mattered and was coming up blank. I agree that just being a treasure that you could play during your action or buy phase works fine.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: jsh357 on May 06, 2016, 02:16:25 pm
I think you people are going to be OK with the bidding as it is. I just have a hunch. And even if you aren't, well, not every game will have it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ben_king on May 06, 2016, 02:20:04 pm
I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Personally, I thought Donald implemented these things in a very thoughtful way.  For me, it makes Dominion more fun, rather than less.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: tastor on May 06, 2016, 02:20:42 pm
The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Yeah but I highly doubt that is what it is going to be, although obviously I don't have the information. The entirety of Dominion thus far has been designed towards eliminating politics and that kind of bidding war seems like it would lead to it ("don't let Bob win that bid! he is already winning!" etc)

But even if it is it will likely only be on a few cards or events and you can always just not play with those cards. Like Donald always says (roughly) "there need to be hated cards if there are going to be loved cards"; some people may like the bidding and some may hate it but there are plenty of cards to play with if you hate it!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Elestan on May 06, 2016, 02:23:34 pm
I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

Like LF, I generally dislike bidding mechanics, but I have no problem with how they are used in Empires.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Kirian on May 06, 2016, 02:33:43 pm
All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 06, 2016, 02:37:19 pm
The bidding thing - this is one of the aspects of Empires that I'm not too fond of. Something I love about Dominion is how equal AND isolated the play is. Sure there are attacks and stuff, but everyone has access to exactly the same things. And there's no direct competition for resources other than pile control. So there are parts of Empires that get rid of that, and bidding is one of them.

I know I just need to wait until it's released before making any judgments, but that sounds really bad.  I'm imagining a scenario where I begin my turn intending to gain card X, but fail to because I get outbid for it.  Unless I am in control of if/when bidding occurs on my turn, I just don't know if I'd care for that.

But even if it is it will likely only be on a few cards or events and you can always just not play with those cards. Like Donald always says (roughly) "there need to be hated cards if there are going to be loved cards"; some people may like the bidding and some may hate it but there are plenty of cards to play with if you hate it!

Except that I am a huge fan of full random, with all cards available kingdoms.  I would have to hate a card really bad to ban it.  In any event, I'm encouraged by some of the other comments about bidding, so open mind and all that.  Besides, even if I don't like bidding, I'm sure I'll dig everything else about this expansion, just as I have with every other one.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: xyz123 on May 06, 2016, 03:07:26 pm
What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: JW on May 06, 2016, 03:08:19 pm
What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.

You can always draw 5 Golds. And think how happy you'd be, for once!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: xyz123 on May 06, 2016, 03:13:26 pm
What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

Isn't it possible to have kingdoms where it would be impossible to have 14 to spend? Think no terminal draw that allows you to draw more than 2 cards with no non terminal draw and no villages, etc. The event would be redundant in those kingdoms. Unless the event changes the game set up in some way it will always be possible or there is a way of reducing its cost.

You can always draw 5 Golds. And think how happy you'd be, for once!

Doh, brain not working today. When I thought about it my brain was going 5*3 is 12 for some reason.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 06, 2016, 03:22:18 pm
Hmm.. with more expensive 'buy' targets coming in through way of Events, has anyone taken to modifying the rule for when to include Platinum and Colonies? 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: GendoIkari on May 06, 2016, 04:34:29 pm
What intrigues me the most is the event that costs 14.

What's Intruigues me the most is cards with multiple types and cards that present choices when played.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ackmondual on May 06, 2016, 05:10:02 pm
Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.
- 60 VP symbols.
- 16 red hexagons.
- 10 uses of "Setup."
- 2 Duration cards.
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
- An Action-Treasure card.
- An Event costing $14.
- A way to double your money.
- A way to bid.
Oddly enough, the Duration cards still stand out more than anything else on this list!!!


PLEASE OH PLEASE let there be more Alayna Lemmer art. I love her stuff so much.
Can you list some specific cards that stand out that Alayna Lemmer did the art for?

EDIT: clarification
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 06, 2016, 05:13:34 pm
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/List_of_illustrators
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Donald X. on May 06, 2016, 05:48:49 pm
All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...
It would certainly be great for me personally if, from this point on, people who know stuff about the unpublished unspoiled cards could manage somehow to not talk about them.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Haddock on May 06, 2016, 05:53:38 pm
I think the bidding and the doubling are probably linked:
Like, at the start of your turn, you may bid an amount. If you have (done something) at least that many times by the start of your buy phase, double your coin.

That would be OK.

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 06, 2016, 05:56:48 pm
Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Haddock on May 06, 2016, 06:04:22 pm
Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.
Derp. True. I was trying to generalise a slightly more specific idea that didnt have that issue, but had its own issues.  Anyway. Yeah. An exact bid.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Willvon on May 06, 2016, 06:12:36 pm
I think am most intrigued in the "2 ways to trash cards from the supply". That really enhances the chance of a quick 3-pile ending.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Willvon on May 06, 2016, 06:18:08 pm
Admittedly, there are plenty of ways to get to $14 on a turn, but do you think it could be possible that we will get a new treasure that gives you $6 or 7$ similar to Platinum coming out with Colonies?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: scott_pilgrim on May 06, 2016, 06:19:34 pm
I'm guessing the Landmarks are the bidding thing.  Each Landmark has a unique effect like "At the start of each of your turns, +1 card".  At the start of the game, you put out n Landmarks for n players (if you draw a random Empires card from the 10 kingdom cards, like determining whether to play with Shelters or Platinum/Colonies).  Then, players bid VP on an available Landmark.  You take turns bidding (like in Evo and probably other games that use that mechanic) until one player is stuck with the last Landmark for 0 VP.  Everyone else starts the game with negative VP equal to their bid, and whatever Landmark they won.

I don't think the bidding will be for cards in the game.  Possibly for events, but I sort of doubt that too.  It would slow the game down a lot and might feel unfair if the bidding happens at the wrong time (on a bad hand or whatever).  Bidding is a totally new mechanic and Landmarks are a totally new thing, so it would make sense that they go together.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 06, 2016, 07:17:39 pm
Admittedly, there are plenty of ways to get to $14 on a turn, but do you think it could be possible that we will get a new treasure that gives you $6 or 7$ similar to Platinum coming out with Colonies?

Have a Gold and two Silvers? Just double your money. Bam $14. I hope this event is called Inflation.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 06, 2016, 08:52:42 pm
Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.

More importantly, if it's not an exact bid, why would you ever bid anything over zero? You get the same effect (doubling your coin) regardless, but bidding more just makes it strictly more difficult to get.
Derp. True. I was trying to generalise a slightly more specific idea that didnt have that issue, but had its own issues.  Anyway. Yeah. An exact bid.

It could be something that doubles the amount you bid if you succeed.  Bid high (or all in) for high risk, high reward.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Kirian on May 06, 2016, 10:08:44 pm
All these meanie playtesters, having all their information on things like Ice Cream Sandwich and Demonic Tutor...
It would certainly be great for me personally if, from this point on, people who know stuff about the unpublished unspoiled cards could manage somehow to not talk about them.


To be fair to all of them, the only thing they've said in this thread is "Guys, don't freak out about $mechanism.  Trust Donald."
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: liopoil on May 06, 2016, 11:06:23 pm
uh bidding should be interesting. I like it in other games, though I wonder how it can work in Dominion.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: GendoIkari on May 06, 2016, 11:12:50 pm
Prediction: Bidding will be limited to a single card or event. Something that when played/bought makes people bid for some effect.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 07, 2016, 01:01:30 am
Prediction: Bidding will be limited to a single card or event. Something that when played/bought makes people bid for some effect.

I also think it's limited to a single card/event, but I'll guess that the bidding is done in setup instead of when played/bought.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Davio on May 07, 2016, 02:26:17 am
I think the bidding and the doubling are probably linked:
Like, at the start of your turn, you may bid an amount. If you have (done something) at least that many times by the start of your buy phase, double your coin.

That would be OK.

Maybe it would have to be an exact bid of something. That way crazy big turns don't get doubled so easily because you might go over the limit.
Maybe bidding is like the Caprice from Android.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ackmondual on May 07, 2016, 04:33:00 am
$14 Event!

Man, that's expensive.

I'm curious how this bidding card works.

I'll give you $10 for it.

That's called Haggling, and we already have a card for that ;)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Davio on May 07, 2016, 05:10:14 am
Anyway,

(http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/shut_up_and_take_my_money-t2.jpg)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Grujah on May 07, 2016, 06:17:45 am
Prediction: (Secret) Bidding card is designed by guest designer David Sirlin.

 :P
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 07, 2016, 06:20:44 am
Prediction: (Secret) Bidding card is designed by guest designer David Sirlin.

Prediction: The red hexagons are gunpowders and they're designed by guest designer ErrinF.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Accatitippi on May 07, 2016, 06:25:52 am
Prediction: (Secret) Bidding card is designed by guest designer David Sirlin.

Prediction: The red hexagons are gunpowders and they're designed by guest designer ErrinF.

Yeah, you set them on fire and throw them at each other. FLAME WAR!

Dominion: Legacy, the game where every successful play will leave an eternal mark on the skin of your opponents.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: phoenix9797 on May 07, 2016, 09:35:37 am
Prediction: Bidding will be limited to a single card or event. Something that when played/bought makes people bid for some effect.

I also think it's limited to a single card/event, but I'll guess that the bidding is done in setup instead of when played/bought.

My guess is that the bidding goes as follows.  On my turn, I can place a "bid" on some card / event (by spending treasure or VP during my buy phase).   If it gets to my turn again and I'm the highest bidder, I get the card / event, and the losing bids are forfeited.  If not, I can supplement my existing bid to make it the highest.  This repeats until someone takes a turn that starts with him / her as the highest bidder.  Then the process can repeat.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 07, 2016, 10:26:54 am
Bidding could be a card that increases in cost as more are gained, and maybe only the most expensive one not in the supply can be played. So, only the player willing to pay the most for it gets to keep playing it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 07, 2016, 10:31:11 am
Or, maybe bidding isn't so literal. Bid could be the name of an event that is thematically tangential to the actual idea of bidding.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 07, 2016, 10:33:22 am
Or there could be a Way to Bid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid,_Razavi_Khorasan).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: JW on May 07, 2016, 10:55:06 am
Maybe SCSN had some influence on the bidding card:

Beyond Silver
Event - $0
Starting with you, each player reveals a number of Silvers from their hand. The player(s) who reveals the most Silver(s) trashes those Silvers.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 07, 2016, 11:11:44 am
Let me set up my guess for the bid wars card:

Event: Bid thing
Cost: $0

You may overpay for this event. If you do, [some nice bonus like card draw] every turn until someone else overpays. The amount you spent becomes the new cost of this Event.

Worded horribly, but I could easily see this being an awesome card. It's not too annoying as a bid Event, and I could see this in Dominion. What I don't see is a bidding Kingdom card. Now watch it be a Kingdom card, just because I said I don't see it. :)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 07, 2016, 11:33:06 am
Write your bids on a piece of paper. Hmm we better include some pencils.  Wait, I figured out what the red hexagons are!

(http://s20.postimg.org/kxvhrrmi5/51_Ae_Zo_PJG6_L_AC_UL160_SR160_160.jpg)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crj on May 07, 2016, 11:41:29 am
Given the well-understood issues with making an Action-Treasure [...]

Sorry, I've missed or forgotten that discussion; what's wrong with it just being played as both?  It's an Action-Treasure, so when you played it, you played an Action, and you played a Treasure.
Hmm. I've seen extensive discussion of it before. I thought it was in a guide for fan cards, but I can't find it any more. )-8

The first question would be: would it have one effect played as an Action and another played as a Treasure, or just one effect you could play as either? (Playing "as an Action" meaning something different from playing "an Action" - you'd be playing an Action, even when you played it as a Treasure, I guess.)

One big objection is that it would no longer be the case that if it was yellow and on the table, it was money to spend that turn, because you might have played it as an Action not a Treasure. Though I guess Counterfeit, Coin of the Realm and Storyteller have already complicated that more than somewhat in their respective ways.

There would have to be clarification of whether "Action card you have in play" really meant that or actually intended "Card you have in play as an Action" for Peddler, "Treasure card you have in play" similarly for Bank (and, I suppose the corresponding question relating to Conspirator after Storyteller). If the "Actions in play" and "Treasures in play" were left meaning literally that, the new Action -Treasure would have to be balanced in the face of them.

I note that we're however many expansions in, and an Action-Treasure has never happened before, despite it being an obvious combination even back in the days of Intrigue's Action-Victory and Treasure-Victory cards. It seems pretty clear to me that Donald X has seen some objections to making them before, and has found a way to overcome those objections now.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crj on May 07, 2016, 11:49:52 am
There are lots of ways bidding could be used beyond bidding for something at the start and Monopoly-style bidding for cards during the game.

To pick just one example, imagine a bidding-based variant on Torturer: players bid by discarding cards. Any player who folds rather than "seeing" the highest bid gains a Curse, putting it in hand. That could get really interesting, especially when Throned...
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crj on May 07, 2016, 11:56:51 am
It seems I have no trouble coming up with semi-sensible ways to do the kinds of thing we're being teased with, beyond the obvious ones. No doubt my ideas would shrivel and die if playtested, though, and Donald X has come up with stuff that's even more awesome.

My random thought for an Event that could cost $14:

Grand Bonfire
As many times as you like: trash a card you have in play, gain 1VP.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 07, 2016, 12:00:22 pm
I imagine the Action Treasure is something like this:

Treasure
Cost: $5

+2 cards

worth $2

You can never draw it dead.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 07, 2016, 12:02:37 pm
I mean it's an Action-Treasure.  If it's in play, it's an Action in play for Peddler.  It's also a Treasure in play for Bank. 

I dont see why it should have different effects if played differently.. 'Played as an Action' or 'Played as a Treasure' doesn't make sense to me.  Though, could behave differently whether it's your Action or Buy phase, that's fine.  But either way, you played both am Action and Treasure, either during your Action phase or during your buy phase.  Counts for all the things it counts for.

If you play it during your Action phase and it, say, doesn't give money, what's the problem?  Still a Treasure played.  HoP doesn't give money.

Of course, I'm just speculating.  I just don't see an issue with that behavior.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 07, 2016, 12:04:42 pm
I imagine the Action Treasure is something like this:

Treasure
Cost: $5

+2 cards

worth $2

You can never draw it dead.

Action-Treasure,  but yeah I don't see any issues with this as it is.  Played during your Buy phase it just let's  you draw during your Buy phase (ideally to play more Treasures).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 07, 2016, 12:27:56 pm
It seems I have no trouble coming up with semi-sensible ways to do the kinds of thing we're being teased with, beyond the obvious ones. No doubt my ideas would shrivel and die if playtested, though, and Donald X has come up with stuff that's even more awesome.

My random thought for an Event that could cost $14:

Grand Bonfire
As many times as you like: trash a card you have in play, gain 1VP.

I choose to do this infinity times.  I trash all my cards in play and gain infinity VP.

(It needs an "if you did" clause!)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 07, 2016, 12:45:18 pm
I mean it's an Action-Treasure.  If it's in play, it's an Action in play for Peddler.  It's also a Treasure in play for Bank. 

I dont see why it should have different effects if played differently.. 'Played as an Action' or 'Played as a Treasure' doesn't make sense to me.  Though, could behave differently whether it's your Action or Buy phase, that's fine.  But either way, you played both am Action and Treasure, either during your Action phase or during your buy phase.  Counts for all the things it counts for.

If you play it during your Action phase and it, say, doesn't give money, what's the problem?  Still a Treasure played.  HoP doesn't give money.

Of course, I'm just speculating.  I just don't see an issue with that behavior.

The parts of your post that I emphasized are what make the most sense to me.  If you play it during your action phase you get the action benefit and the treasure benefit.  If you chose not to use it during your action phase, but only in your buy phase, then you only get the treasure benefit.  Either way the card would always be both an action and a treasure for the purposes of things like Peddler and Bank.  So the result of playing it may change depending on when it is played, but its type never changes.

Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Titandrake on May 07, 2016, 01:12:42 pm
I second that bidding is part of setup for a certain card. If bidding was part of resolving an action, I feel like it would take up too much time if you, say, KC that action during your turn.

My guess is that it's like bidding in Bridge - everyone claims they'll be able to do something at the start of the game, you get some bonus for making the bid, and some penalty for not making it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 07, 2016, 01:16:16 pm
I mean it's an Action-Treasure.  If it's in play, it's an Action in play for Peddler.  It's also a Treasure in play for Bank. 

I dont see why it should have different effects if played differently.. 'Played as an Action' or 'Played as a Treasure' doesn't make sense to me.  Though, could behave differently whether it's your Action or Buy phase, that's fine.  But either way, you played both am Action and Treasure, either during your Action phase or during your buy phase.  Counts for all the things it counts for.

If you play it during your Action phase and it, say, doesn't give money, what's the problem?  Still a Treasure played.  HoP doesn't give money.

Of course, I'm just speculating.  I just don't see an issue with that behavior.

The parts of your post that I emphasized are what make the most sense to me.  If you play it during your action phase you get the action benefit and the treasure benefit.  If you chose not to use it during your action phase, but only in your buy phase, then you only get the treasure benefit.  Either way the card would always be both an action and a treasure for the purposes of things like Peddler and Bank.  So the result of playing it may change depending on when it is played, but its type never changes.

I don't see a huge benefit to behave differently on different phases.  There's nothing wrong with the version Seprix proposed.  You play it, draw 2 cards, continue with your buy phase as normal.  You're already used to playing and resolving one Treasure at a time.  Even if it gives +Actions, that makes a difference for, e.g., Diadem.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Davio on May 07, 2016, 01:54:26 pm
Action - Treasure, turning Tributes into Mercenaries since Empires.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: iamsparticus on May 07, 2016, 03:58:25 pm
Action - Treasure, turning Tributes into Mercenaries since Empires.

Tribute hits Harem and TBD Action/Treasure. +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +4 Money.

Beginner "My laboratory only provides +2 Cards, + 1 Action. I thought you said Dominion was balanced!"
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 07, 2016, 04:07:17 pm
I mean it's an Action-Treasure.  If it's in play, it's an Action in play for Peddler.  It's also a Treasure in play for Bank. 

I dont see why it should have different effects if played differently.. 'Played as an Action' or 'Played as a Treasure' doesn't make sense to me.  Though, could behave differently whether it's your Action or Buy phase, that's fine.  But either way, you played both am Action and Treasure, either during your Action phase or during your buy phase.  Counts for all the things it counts for.

If you play it during your Action phase and it, say, doesn't give money, what's the problem?  Still a Treasure played.  HoP doesn't give money.

Of course, I'm just speculating.  I just don't see an issue with that behavior.

The parts of your post that I emphasized are what make the most sense to me.  If you play it during your action phase you get the action benefit and the treasure benefit.  If you chose not to use it during your action phase, but only in your buy phase, then you only get the treasure benefit.  Either way the card would always be both an action and a treasure for the purposes of things like Peddler and Bank.  So the result of playing it may change depending on when it is played, but its type never changes.

I don't see a huge benefit to behave differently on different phases.  There's nothing wrong with the version Seprix proposed.  You play it, draw 2 cards, continue with your buy phase as normal.  You're already used to playing and resolving one Treasure at a time.  Even if it gives +Actions, that makes a difference for, e.g., Diadem.

What if you don't want to draw?  Now you have an action/treasure card in your hand that can be used as neither.

EDIT: Obviously, if the action doesn't involve draw, this isn't an issue.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Throwaway_bicycling on May 07, 2016, 04:56:55 pm
23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 07, 2016, 05:06:16 pm
23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crj on May 08, 2016, 09:41:56 am
My random thought for an Event that could cost $14:

Grand Bonfire
As many times as you like: trash a card you have in play, gain 1VP.

I choose to do this infinity times.  I trash all my cards in play and gain infinity VP.

(It needs an "if you did" clause!)
It was an example off the top of my head, not a bulletproof proposed card wording. I mean, as it stands Fortress is a bigger problem than the missing "if you did".
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: XerxesPraelor on May 08, 2016, 10:00:56 am
My random thought for an Event that could cost $14:

Grand Bonfire
As many times as you like: trash a card you have in play, gain 1VP.

I choose to do this infinity times.  I trash all my cards in play and gain infinity VP.

(It needs an "if you did" clause!)
It was an example off the top of my head, not a bulletproof proposed card wording. I mean, as it stands Fortress is a bigger problem than the missing "if you did".
Fortress isn't a problem because you can't play it again in the middle of buying this event.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ObtusePunubiris on May 08, 2016, 10:23:03 am
23 members and 39 guests are viewing this topic.

This Donald fellow must be a popular guy.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad.  If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read.  I was just being considerate.  Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content.  I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something. 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Donald X. on May 08, 2016, 12:15:01 pm
Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad.  If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read.  I was just being considerate.  Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content.  I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.
And then people upvoted it because they like having someone save them effort!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ConMan on May 08, 2016, 08:51:32 pm
I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 08, 2016, 09:16:48 pm
I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.

What do you mean by "an Action card that does something during your Buy phase"?  It'll depend on the implementation, but I expect that the benefit of being a Treasure is that you can still play it in the Buy phase so the card can't be drawn dead, and the benefit of being an Action is that you can play it in the Action phase.  I agree that it should do something where that distinction of when it's played matters, but I don't think it needs to have different effects depending on that.  Maybe something as simple as:

Laurel Crown
$6 - Action-Treasure
Worth $2
[When you play this,] +2 cards

(It could say +$2 instead, but having the big $2 in a coin is more aesthetically interesting.)

You get the same effect either way.  You can't draw it dead since you can always play it in the Buy phase, but doing so may draw other cards dead since you can no longer play actions.  It's also a conspicuously absent set of vanilla bonuses.  For reference, here's a Secret Histories tidbit about that:

Quote
"Highway:" This was "+2 Cards +$2," for $5. It was a solid card that I eventually decided not to do. It seemed strong and it's too easy to compare to other things. It had no special charm.

Making it an Action-Treasure could be the twist that makes it harder to compare to other things and lend it the special charm it needs.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 08, 2016, 10:10:28 pm
Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad.  If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read.  I was just being considerate.  Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content.  I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.

I guess I should have been even more over the top. Freaking Poe's Law.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Davio on May 09, 2016, 03:00:41 am
I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.
You can't Venture into an Action card.

I think it's pretty cool to have it be both an Action or Treasure so you can Golem into it or Venture into it.
And you can never draw it dead, that's pretty cool.

Even a simple +2 Cards (as Action) or +$2 (as Treasure) is neat enough.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ced on May 09, 2016, 04:52:56 am
Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.

Quote
- 60 VP symbols.

Again, that's a lot. I have no idea. Maybe Landmarks will have multiple VP symbols on them?

Quote
- 16 red hexagons.

The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.

Quote
- 10 uses of "Setup."

I predict Landmarks.

Quote
- 2 Duration cards.

Only two? I predict two more cards like Hireling.

Quote
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.

Trashing from any old supply pile doesn't seem very fun. My guess is that there are actions that can trash additional copies of themselves from the supply for a greater effect. E.g. a terminal Silver that gives +$3 instead if you trash another copy from the supply.

Quote
- An Action-Treasure card.

I saw someone suggest that this card might trash itself when played in a particular mode, so that it's easier to tell what mode you play it in. Something like a 5-cost +3 cards that you can play as a 1-shot Gold in your buy phase perhaps? That's a simple BM card.

Quote
- An Event costing $14.

Cost reduction seems the most likely thing going on here.

Quote
- A way to double your money.

Event, $3, +1 buy, double your money once per turn. $7 buys a Province, $11 buys two, $14 buys two Colonies.

Quote
- A way to bid.

Coins are the obvious thing to bid with, but the turn-based nature of the game makes this unbalanced in favor of the active player. I could see an auction happening during setup. Perhaps there is an 11th Kingdom card and you bid to get exclusive use of it. The loser gets some VP tokens. Kind of like the classic bidding games e.g. Contract Bridge. You have favorable play conditions, but have to score X more points than the opponent.
Or maybe you bid using your trusty red hexagons.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Davio on May 09, 2016, 05:00:36 am
Would be cool to procession the Action - Treasure, get it from the trash and subsequently play it as a Treasure.

Even cooler to play it with BM as Treasure,  buy Mandarin,  play it as an Action, then play it as Treasure again.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Throwaway_bicycling on May 09, 2016, 07:19:59 am
Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad.  If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read.  I was just being considerate.  Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content.  I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.
And then people upvoted it because they like having someone save them effort!

We're pretty low energy in r/dominion. But mobile first is a thing...
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 07:47:40 am
Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.
Well if the Dual-Piles have a unique randomizer a la knights then that's 3 pieces of art per Dual-Pile. So minus 3 for 20 landmarks and 10 events, that's 46. So with anywhere from 1-5 Dual Piles we still have just enough leftover art.

Quote
Quote
- 60 VP symbols.
Again, that's a lot. I have no idea. Maybe Landmarks will have multiple VP symbols on them?
That's what I figured. There will probably be a lot that mention VP twice. I predict a card that has 5 VP symbols on it.

Quote
Quote
- 16 red hexagons.
The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.
I had an idea that the hexagons are icons on a card, which refer to a curse/debt token.

Quote
Quote
- 10 uses of "Setup."
I predict Landmarks.
Sounds about right, but I'm still hoping for something a la baker.

Quote
Quote
- 2 Duration cards.
Only two? I predict two more cards like Hireling.
Nah, otherwise they would have been in adventures. Probably they are outtakes from when adventures was a treasure chest, and were moved here once adventures dropped VP tokens and the rest.

Quote
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.

Trashing from any old supply pile doesn't seem very fun. My guess is that there are actions that can trash additional copies of themselves from the supply for a greater effect. E.g. a terminal Silver that gives +$3 instead if you trash another copy from the supply.

Quote
Quote
- An Action-Treasure card.

I saw someone suggest that this card might trash itself when played in a particular mode, so that it's easier to tell what mode you play it in. Something like a 5-cost +3 cards that you can play as a 1-shot Gold in your buy phase perhaps? That's a simple BM card.
It might move as an treasure, rather than trashing itself. e.g. "+2 coins, put this on top of your deck."

Quote
Quote
- An Event costing $14.

Cost reduction seems the most likely thing going on here.
Probably, but a flat 14 would be epic.

Quote
- A way to double your money.

Quote
Event, $3, +1 buy, double your money once per turn. $7 buys a Province, $11 buys two, $14 buys two Colonies.
I agree with your event prediction, but it would make sense to throw in another buy.

Quote
- A way to bid.
Coins are the obvious thing to bid with, but the turn-based nature of the game makes this unbalanced in favor of the active player. I could see an auction happening during setup. Perhaps there is an 11th Kingdom card and you bid to get exclusive use of it. The loser gets some VP tokens. Kind of like the classic bidding games e.g. Contract Bridge. You have favorable play conditions, but have to score X more points than the opponent.
Or maybe you bid using your trusty red hexagons.
[/quote]
"Can we stop talking about the hexagons? Do people really care about the hexagons? I mean, people are always joining up 3 points, how often do they join up eight?"

(Bonus points if you know where that quote is from) I think bidding will be done with VP, with curse tokens if you bid over. Or you could bid with debt tokens that are worth -VP if they aren't paid off. Here's a theory:

The red hexagon symbol is a symbol on cards referring to taking debt tokens. Each card with a red hexagon has "Setup: add repay to the supply" Repay is an event that reads: $2, return one of your debt tokens. If you did, +1 buy. Each debt token is worth -2 VP at the end of the game. Certain piles will allow you to get them cheaper. "When you buy this, you may take up to X debt tokens, +$1 per token taken." Bidding is done buy bidding coin amounts. Then you must play any number of treasures from your hand and pay all your $. Take debt tokens for +$1 until you have reached your bid.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 09, 2016, 08:06:14 am
Regarding VP symbols: Maybe there will be (non-)cards that give a different amount of VP, depending on how often/good you did something, nonlinearly.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 09, 2016, 08:08:35 am
Also, can Donald get up already?
Please?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 08:13:26 am
Also, can Donald get up already?
Please?

It's, like, 5am where he is right now
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: McGarnacle on May 09, 2016, 08:30:04 am
Also, can Donald get up already?
Please?

It's, like, 5am where he is right now

Oh, he's up all right. He has logged in as a guest and is watching us plead and beg for previews like a 4-year-old begging for dessert.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 09, 2016, 08:45:02 am
Dominion: Empires has:

- 76 pieces of card art.

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.
Well if the Dual-Piles have a unique randomizer a la knights then that's 3 pieces of art per Dual-Pile. So minus 3 for 20 landmarks and 10 events, that's 46. So with anywhere from 1-5 Dual Piles we still have just enough leftover art.

For that much art, I'm thinking like 8-10 dual piles, and why not? If it's a theme that hasn't really been done before, there's a lot you could do with it.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 09, 2016, 08:53:41 am
Quote
- 16 red hexagons.
The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.
I had an idea that the hexagons are icons on a card, which refer to a curse/debt token.

The thing about regular hexagons is that they fit together (think Catan board), so I like the idea that they're tokens that can be fit together. That doesn't exclude them from being symbols on cards too though. 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Cuzz on May 09, 2016, 09:12:01 am
Quote
A bit more to chew on: It has 300 cards and 96 metal tokens. There are cards you can buy now and pay for later, piles with two different cards, and Landmarks which add new ways to score. VP tokens and Events return from previous sets.

Jay

Buying now and paying for later seems like a place for bidding to come in--maybe bid for when you will pay with a penalty if the game ends before you can do so.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 10:18:25 am
Hmm.  For previous sets, previews were posted around 10.  Did Donald X have too fun of a weekend?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 09, 2016, 10:19:08 am
I was so excited when I saw there was a new post in this forum...
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Deadlock39 on May 09, 2016, 10:20:07 am
well... for adventures, the previews came from forum members right? and he said he was doing the same thing for empires didn't he?  So wouldn't the posting time be dependent on whoever that person happens to be for today?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 10:21:42 am
well... for adventures, the previews came from forum members right? and he said he was doing the same thing for empires didn't he?  So wouldn't the posting time be dependent on whoever that person happens to be for today?

There's going to be a couple posted by Donald, and then a preview by someone else.  I believe jsh is posting his today.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 09, 2016, 10:22:19 am
Donald's preview came at about 16:00 CEST (20 minutes ago). there where additional previews from others at different times.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: faust on May 09, 2016, 10:41:38 am
Well, Donald has been last active 7 hours ago, so he might still be asleep.

#DominionStalking
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 10:51:52 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Nflickner on May 09, 2016, 11:01:02 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.

That's two of us, and probably others :)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 11:02:16 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.

That's two of us, and probably others :)

I wouldn't be surprised if the forum just crashes again.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:04:04 am
Also, can Donald get up already?
Please?

It's, like, 5am where he is right now

Oh, he's up all right. He has logged in as a guest and is watching us plead and beg for previews like a 4-year-old begging for dessert.
He's definently getting a kick out of me and Nflicker.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 09, 2016, 11:04:33 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.

You could just click notify on the sub forum and it will send you and email when someone posts a new topic
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 09, 2016, 11:06:00 am
Can we break the record from DA previews?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 11:06:16 am
- 16 red hexagons.
The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.
He just didn't mention the 16 blue hexagons, 16 green hexagons, 16 yellow hexagons, 16 white hexagons, and 16 orange hexagons.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 11:09:20 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 09, 2016, 11:10:23 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:12:43 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.

You could just click notify on the sub forum and it will send you and email when someone posts a new topic
Great Idea! Now I can just hit refresh on my email every 30 seconds!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 11:13:20 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Orange is my favorite color, so I'm happy. Also, my white tokens have never been used.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 09, 2016, 11:14:52 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Orange is my favorite color, so I'm happy. Also, my white tokens have never been used.

Yeah, I guess a lot of people like orange. Maybe it would have been best to have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 11:16:13 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Orange is my favorite color, so I'm happy. Also, my white tokens have never been used.

Yeah, I guess a lot of people like orange. Maybe it would have been best to have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple.

Funnily enough, my mother hates orange so much she once refused to sleep in a hotel room with orange walls.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Ankenaut on May 09, 2016, 11:16:17 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

I like white.

My son is colorblind and has difficulty distinguishing blue and purple, so I'm glad there's only one of those. Green-orange (it's more like green-red for some people) and white-pink are also tough, so I appreciate not having too many shades in the same bins.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:16:43 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Orange is my favorite color, so I'm happy. Also, my white tokens have never been used.

Yeah, I guess a lot of people like orange. Maybe it would have been best to have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple.
I hate orange. Maybe they can release a promotional purple board and tokens!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Cuzz on May 09, 2016, 11:20:04 am
Until then, I'll just be here clicking refresh every 30 seconds.

You could just click notify on the sub forum and it will send you and email when someone posts a new topic

Yes, everyone please stop refreshing constantly. It's really slowing down my constant refreshing.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 11:23:09 am
16 white hexagons

I still can't believe they picked white over purple as a player color.  I mean, purple is at least better than orange, right?

Definitely. If I had my druthers, there would be white (or black, or gray) and purple, but no orange.
Orange is my favorite color, so I'm happy. Also, my white tokens have never been used.

Yeah, I guess a lot of people like orange. Maybe it would have been best to have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple.
Mm, I don't think so. When someone asks what my favorite color is and I say orange, they usually ask, "Why?" When someone says their favorite color is blue, people say "oh that's nice" or "me too". Definitely think I'm in the minority here.

But now I have my limited edition orange tokens, so they can go ahead and make them purple in the reprints. ;)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: blaisepascal on May 09, 2016, 11:26:00 am
Meanwhile Werothegreat is teasing us by posting preview details on the Wiki.  Previews of Dark Ages, that is.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 11:27:46 am
Meanwhile Werothegreat is teasing us by posting preview details on the Wiki.  Previews of Dark Ages, that is.

;)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Beyond Awesome on May 09, 2016, 11:32:23 am
I would love to have purple tokens.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 09, 2016, 11:40:15 am
I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color. That's like having a favorite musical note or a favorite letter of the alphabet. It's not really anything on its own, it only becomes something meaningful when it's combined with something else (like a shape, or another color).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 09, 2016, 11:40:50 am
favorite letter of the alphabet

Q, obviously.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:42:18 am
favorite letter of the alphabet

Q, obviously.
Z, duh.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 11:49:34 am
Also, I guess I could throw in my two cents about the teasers in this thread:

I assume Landmarks will be responsible for most of the Setups and VP symbols.

I'm guessing the hexagons do only come in red and are Debt Tokens. Someone mentioned how hexagons fit together like Catan, but I think it's mostly to distinguish them from the red circle player tokens. The debt would go with the paying later thing. $0-cost card, but when you gain this gain a Debt Token? Maybe you pay VP tokens to get rid of tokens (of course the Debt Token card would also have to give out VP tokens). Or maybe you just pay them off with money, but they're worth -VP.

Trashing from the Supply I think is coupled with handing out VP tokens, since VP-giving cards need to still bring the game to an end somehow. Not sure how it should work, though.

I also usually hate bidding, and love Dominion for the lack of politics. But I have no reason not to trust Donald, so I think I'll like it. I think the "bidding against yourself" thing like Spades is a reasonable guess. Or some kind of turn-based or anonymous bidding.

Also I like that Duration cards aren't noted as "returning from a previous set". Means that they're just a standard thing from now on and we'll get to see them with new themes, whenever it makes sense. And for no real reason, I hope one is a VP-token Duration card. Also, kind of sad there are no Reserve cards, but maybe next time...
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 11:50:37 am
favorite letter of the alphabet

Q, obviously.
Z, duh.
Not theta? ...or sigma?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 09, 2016, 11:54:12 am
favorite musical note

C flat, of course.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: pst on May 09, 2016, 11:55:48 am
I would love to have purple tokens.

Green? Purple!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBTOU7RvbU
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: E.Honda on May 09, 2016, 11:56:20 am
favorite letter of the alphabet

Q, obviously.
Z, duh.
Not theta? ...or sigma?

I like ξ
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:57:10 am
favorite letter of the alphabet

Q, obviously.
Z, duh.
Not theta? ...or sigma?
Favorite Greek letter, yes. Aleph is my favorite Hebrew letter.

While we are on the subject, on a scale of 1-10, what is your favorite color of the alphabet?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 09, 2016, 11:58:29 am
favorite musical note

C flat, of course.
I prefer c sharp double flat.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Accatitippi on May 09, 2016, 12:04:55 pm
Donald is online! (stalking is serious business, guys)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Joseph2302 on May 09, 2016, 12:13:13 pm
Donald is online! (stalking is serious business, guys)
And he's posted the first preview!!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 09, 2016, 01:32:16 pm

- 76 pieces of card art.
- 60 VP symbols.
- 16 red hexagons.
- 10 uses of "Setup."
- 2 Duration cards.
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
- An Action-Treasure card.
- An Event costing $14.
- A way to double your money.
- A way to bid.


Knowing the new Debt mechanics...

Doubling your money is probably an Event that gives a huge debt to yourself after you do it, probably equal to the cost of how much you spent on the event.

It seems reasonable that one of the Duration cards costs Debt.

Bidding could be a Debt thing, but I doubt it.

You probably can buy up to X VP tokens per turn, but you get a debt penalty as a result.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 09, 2016, 01:35:55 pm
To me, it makes the most sense for bidding to be a debt thing. You get whatever number of debt tokens you bid if you win and then get whatever you won.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 09, 2016, 01:38:24 pm
To me, it makes the most sense for bidding to be a debt thing. You get whatever number of debt tokens you bid if you win and then get whatever you won.

Huh. That's reasonable. I like the ever increasing price of an Event due to overpaying for it throughout the game too, though.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 09, 2016, 01:46:24 pm
Don't we already have a way to double your money though? If you have $1 and you play a Copper, you've just doubled your money.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: DoomYoshi on May 09, 2016, 04:52:47 pm
I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color. That's like having a favorite musical note or a favorite letter of the alphabet. It's not really anything on its own, it only becomes something meaningful when it's combined with something else (like a shape, or another color).

I had a blog once on people's favorite letters of the alphabet:
https://alphabetpowerrankings.wordpress.com/ (https://alphabetpowerrankings.wordpress.com/)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 05:58:41 pm
Doubling your money is probably an Event that gives a huge debt to yourself after you do it, probably equal to the cost of how much you spent on the event.
How would this work? Because once you buy the Event, you have all this money, but you also have Debt. So you can't buy anything. And it seems a little wonky to have an Event set up an end-of-Buy-Phase/Clean-Up-Phase effect, just because nothing's in play to help you remember to take the Debt then.

Also, I may be confused on how this is a completely sensible mechanic, I'm still wrapping my head around it all, haha.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: michaeljb on May 09, 2016, 06:02:33 pm
you have all this money, but you also have Debt. So you can't buy anything.

You can pay off Debt in between buying cards. Example:

* I have $10 and 2 buys
* buy a City Quarter
* now I have $10, 8 Debt, and 1 buy
* pay off 8 Debt
* now I have $2, 1 buy
* I can now buy an Estate
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: crlundy on May 09, 2016, 06:28:10 pm
you have all this money, but you also have Debt. So you can't buy anything.

You can pay off Debt in between buying cards. Example:

* I have $10 and 2 buys
* buy a City Quarter
* now I have $10, 8 Debt, and 1 buy
* pay off 8 Debt
* now I have $2, 1 buy
* I can now buy an Estate
Yes, but say the Event is +$X, take Y Debt, then you might as well just have the Event be +$(X-Y). Right?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: drsteelhammer on May 09, 2016, 06:31:02 pm
you have all this money, but you also have Debt. So you can't buy anything.

You can pay off Debt in between buying cards. Example:

* I have $10 and 2 buys
* buy a City Quarter
* now I have $10, 8 Debt, and 1 buy
* pay off 8 Debt
* now I have $2, 1 buy
* I can now buy an Estate
Yes, but say the Event is +$X, take Y Debt, then you might as well just have the Event be +$(X-Y). Right?

but if the Event says take X times Z where Z is the amount of money you have, it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 09, 2016, 09:57:41 pm

- 76 pieces of card art.
- 60 VP symbols.
- 16 red hexagons.
- 10 uses of "Setup."
- 2 Duration cards.
- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
- An Action-Treasure card.
- An Event costing $14.
- A way to double your money.
- A way to bid.


Knowing the new Debt mechanics...

Doubling your money is probably an Event that gives a huge debt to yourself after you do it, probably equal to the cost of how much you spent on the event.

It seems reasonable that one of the Duration cards costs Debt.

Bidding could be a Debt thing, but I doubt it.

You probably can buy up to X VP tokens per turn, but you get a debt penalty as a result.

Mostly agree, but I think bidding with debt is very plausible and I don't really expect there to be buying VP tokens with a debt penalty (though it could happen, sure).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Kirian on May 09, 2016, 11:27:08 pm
I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color. That's like having a favorite musical note or a favorite letter of the alphabet. It's not really anything on its own, it only becomes something meaningful when it's combined with something else (like a shape, or another color).

My favorite musical note is also my favorite programming language: Moat
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 10, 2016, 12:07:23 am
I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color. That's like having a favorite musical note or a favorite letter of the alphabet. It's not really anything on its own, it only becomes something meaningful when it's combined with something else (like a shape, or another color).

My favorite musical note is also my favorite programming language: Moat

That is neither a programming language or a musical note, you hack fraud. Exploiting the minds of the users of forum.dominionstrategy like that is a horrid crime. Why, I think we're witnessing a decline in civility!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 10, 2016, 12:14:32 am
My favorite programming language: ArnoldC (https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Haddock on May 10, 2016, 08:06:22 am
I still don't get the concept of having a favorite color. That's like having a favorite musical note or a favorite letter of the alphabet. It's not really anything on its own, it only becomes something meaningful when it's combined with something else (like a shape, or another color).
I can understand this.  I've never had a favourite colour really.  But I can imagine it being a thing.  You're right that colour is not a thing on its own, but I could definitely visualise a mindset of the type:

"I am more likely to enjoy/appreciate [a given thing of shape X, or thing which is partly-coloured Y] if it also happens to be of colour C."

That's the sort of mindset that I can definitely imagine people getting into.  And in that situation I think such a person would be totally justified in saying that C is their favourite colour.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 10, 2016, 11:56:26 am
Anybody know who's doing their bonus preview today?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 10, 2016, 11:58:03 am
Anybody know who's doing their bonus preview today?

Yes.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 10, 2016, 12:05:06 pm
Anybody know who's doing their bonus preview today?

Yes.
May I ask who?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 10, 2016, 12:10:16 pm
At least the person who's doing it and Donald, probably the others doing previews as well.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: qmech on May 10, 2016, 12:31:07 pm
Anybody know who's doing their bonus preview today?

Yes.
May I ask who?

Is it yes?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 10, 2016, 12:41:24 pm
Someone did this for the Adventures previews. I don't think anyone's done it here yet. As of the Split piles preview we've seen:
10/76 pieces of card art.
0/60 VP symbols. (Maybe one in the City Quarter art)
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup." Probably some of them are on the split pile randomizers
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
No Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I think this is correct.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: tastor on May 10, 2016, 12:46:07 pm
Someone did this for the Adventures previews. I don't think anyone's done it here yet. As of the Split piles preview we've seen:
10/76 pieces of card art.
0/60 VP symbols. (Maybe one in the City Quarter art)
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup." Probably some of them are on the split pile randomizers
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
No Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I think this is correct.

I'm going to assume that the VP symbol in City Quarter counts because that is still a lot of VP tokens.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 10, 2016, 12:51:59 pm
Someone did this for the Adventures previews. I don't think anyone's done it here yet. As of the Split piles preview we've seen:
10/76 pieces of card art.
0/60 VP symbols. (Maybe one in the City Quarter art)
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup." Probably some of them are on the split pile randomizers
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
No Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I think this is correct.

I'm going to assume that the VP symbol in City Quarter counts because that is still a lot of VP tokens.

It doesn't count.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 10, 2016, 01:03:51 pm
I think Gladiator might be the way to bid.  If it isn't, then I'm not sure what it might be.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 10, 2016, 02:33:44 pm
So... now we're waiting on whoever our next playtester is to post their preview?  jsh had already posted by this time yesterday.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Marcory on May 10, 2016, 02:36:34 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/4iqi77/empires_bonus_preview_live_wednesday_4pm_edt_2000/
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 10, 2016, 02:40:28 pm
I think Gladiator might be the way to bid.  If it isn't, then I'm not sure what it might be.

What...!? This is simply not true at all.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 10, 2016, 02:42:27 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/4iqi77/empires_bonus_preview_live_wednesday_4pm_edt_2000/

Today is Tuesday.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Voltaire on May 10, 2016, 02:46:37 pm
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 10, 2016, 03:09:17 pm
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
A few questions:
1) Who?
2) When?
3) What's your source?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Marcory on May 10, 2016, 03:16:42 pm
A preview is never early, nor is it late. It arrives precisely when it means to.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 10, 2016, 03:21:01 pm
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
A few questions:
1) Who?
2) When?
3) What's your source?

DO NOT QUESTION THE VOLTAIRE, FOR HE KNOWS ALL!!!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 10, 2016, 03:22:40 pm
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
A few questions:
1) Who?
2) When?
3) What's your source?

DO NOT QUESTION THE VOLTAIRE, FOR HE KNOWS ALL!!!
That's precisely why I am questioning him.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Voltaire on May 10, 2016, 03:24:05 pm
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
A few questions:
1) Who?
2) When?
3) What's your source?

1) not me
2) later than now
3) a clock

Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk. Actual answer is I'm a playtester. I've tried to not really mention that too much, because I was one of the people a bit miffed last time by a few posts from my now-fellow-playtesters that seemed like they were taking joy in knowing more than others. Perhaps I have now become that which I despise, or maybe I just want to reassure people there will still be another new Dominion card(s) revealed today. And at the end of the day, isn't that fantastic?  ;D
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 10, 2016, 03:44:56 pm
Perhaps I have now become that which I despise, or maybe I just want to reassure people there will still be another new Dominion card(s) revealed today. And at the end of the day, isn't that fantastic?  ;D

At least you didn't sleep with your niece like another person who also shares your name.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 10, 2016, 03:49:54 pm
Perhaps I have now become that which I despise, or maybe I just want to reassure people there will still be another new Dominion card(s) revealed today. And at the end of the day, isn't that fantastic?  ;D

At least you didn't sleep with your niece like another person who also shares your name.

Yeah because then we would be even more envious!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: drsteelhammer on May 11, 2016, 07:47:45 am
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22640750#22640750

Here is ADK's preview from yesterday. I'm sure he will post it here when he and f.ds are up at the same time, but maybe we can start discussing it already.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: ben_king on May 11, 2016, 10:10:06 am
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22640750#22640750

Here is ADK's preview from yesterday. I'm sure he will post it here when he and f.ds are up at the same time, but maybe we can start discussing it already.

I was thinking about this last night.  What would happen if you are resolving Black Market, play a Crown, crown-ing another Black Market?  Here's my best guess at what would happen:


Does that sound right?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on May 11, 2016, 10:17:03 am
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22640750#22640750

Here is ADK's preview from yesterday. I'm sure he will post it here when he and f.ds are up at the same time, but maybe we can start discussing it already.

I was thinking about this last night.  What would happen if you are resolving Black Market, play a Crown, crown-ing another Black Market?  Here's my best guess at what would happen:

  • First play of Black Market, which reveals cards A, B, and C (not technically taking them off the black market deck)
  • Crown is played, we choose another copy of Black Market to play twice
    • Second play of Black Market, which still reveals A, B, and C
    • A, B, and C are put on the bottom of the Black Market Deck
    • Third play of Black Market, which reveals D, E, and F
    • D, E, and F are put on the bottom of the Black Market Deck
  • If we try to buy A, B, or C, we fail due to Lose Track
  • When we try to put A, B, and C on the bottom of the deck, we again fail due to Lose Track

Does that sound right?

I believe each play of Black Market will just reveal 3 new cards. Revealing ABC does take them off the top of the Black Market deck and put them into reveal space. They will just hang out there until you're done resolving the other BM plays. So I think it all works out without any losing track.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 11, 2016, 11:34:48 am
Exclusive - I can confirm there will be another bonus preview today as always planned, and that it will be later than yesterday's.  :P
A few questions:
1) Who?
2) When?
3) What's your source?

1) not me
2) later than now
3) a clock

Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk. Actual answer is I'm a playtester. I've tried to not really mention that too much, because I was one of the people a bit miffed last time by a few posts from my now-fellow-playtesters that seemed like they were taking joy in knowing more than others. Perhaps I have now become that which I despise, or maybe I just want to reassure people there will still be another new Dominion card(s) revealed today. And at the end of the day, isn't that fantastic?  ;D

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. 
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 11, 2016, 03:09:03 pm
As of the VP tokens preview we've seen:
14/76 pieces of card art.
5/60 VP symbols.
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup".
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 11, 2016, 03:12:01 pm
As of the VP tokens preview we've seen:
14/76 pieces of card art.
5/60 VP symbols.
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup".
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I guess we have only "seen" 14 pieces of art, but we know that three more of them are on the randomizers for the split piles. Does that count?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on May 11, 2016, 03:15:12 pm
As of the VP tokens preview we've seen:
14/76 pieces of card art.
5/60 VP symbols.
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup".
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I guess we have only "seen" 14 pieces of art, but we know that three more of them are on the randomizers for the split piles. Does that count?

Hard to say.  It might even count for less, since the art for (e.g.) Gladiator and the art for Fortune are actually just different crops of the same piece of art, which will be the randomizer.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Awaclus on May 11, 2016, 03:53:19 pm
https://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton

Based on the title of his stream, I think Adam is going to reveal the bonus card on his stream.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 11, 2016, 03:55:08 pm
https://www.twitch.tv/adamhorton

Based on the title of his stream, I think Adam is going to reveal the bonus card on his stream.

Also he said on reddit that he would do so.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Watno on May 11, 2016, 03:59:55 pm
He also said he'd do it at May 11, 2016, 04:00:00 pm, which is pretty much now.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 11, 2016, 04:32:53 pm
He also said he'd do it at May 11, 2016, 04:00:00 pm, which is pretty much now.

It's already on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/4iwxqs/empires_bonus_preview_3_farmers_market/
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 11, 2016, 05:21:40 pm
As of the Farmers' Market preview we've seen:
15/76 pieces of card art.
8/60 VP symbols.
5/16 red hexagons.
0/10 uses of "Setup".
0/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: math on May 11, 2016, 05:43:05 pm
The fact that there are 10 uses of "Setup", and we haven't seen any of them yet, makes me think those are the Landmarks (at least most of them).  If so, we'll find out tomorrow.  Also, those may be the way to bid, unless the bidding is on a single Kingdom card.

Bidding in terms of taking debt would make a lot of sense, especially if it is in the "Setup" clause.  That's the point where your decks are the least different, so the bidding would be very fair then - you don't even know yet what your opening split is going to be.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LaLight on May 12, 2016, 02:38:46 am
Don't you think that Gathering cards are the way to bid? Everybody bids and the winner takes it all
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 12, 2016, 12:34:28 pm
As of the Landmarks preview we've seen:
21/76 pieces of card art.
14/60 VP symbols.
5/16 red hexagons.
1/10 uses of "Setup".
1/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
No Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

I'm only including things we've actually seen in the previews, not things that we've been told exist.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Seprix on May 12, 2016, 01:38:57 pm
Don't you think that Gathering cards are the way to bid? Everybody bids and the winner takes it all

Donald made a game where you can make 'bids' about what you can do, called Gauntlet of Fools (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/129293/gauntlet-fools). There were such claims as "I can win with an arm behind my back and hung over and without breakfast", which of course all do negative things.

I could potentially see a Landmark being a 'way to bid' in a negative sense, like you get 15 VP Tokens if you take all the Curses or 20 Copper, and the price keeps going up and up, but then that leads to quick pile-outs. I just think the way to bid is an overpaying event that gives you a bonus (or VP Tokens every turn guaranteed) until someone else overpays.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 12, 2016, 01:45:19 pm
Don't you think that Gathering cards are the way to bid? Everybody bids and the winner takes it all

Donald made a game where you can make 'bids' about what you can do, called Gauntlet of Fools (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/129293/gauntlet-fools). There were such claims as "I can win with an arm behind my back and hung over and without breakfast", which of course all do negative things.

I could potentially see a Landmark being a 'way to bid' in a negative sense, like you get 15 VP Tokens if you take all the Curses or 20 Copper, and the price keeps going up and up, but then that leads to quick pile-outs. I just think the way to bid is an overpaying event that gives you a bonus (or VP Tokens every turn guaranteed) until someone else overpays.

Maybe you just bid how many tricks you're going to take.  Finally that Ace of Spades card can be used!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: amoffett11 on May 13, 2016, 09:08:24 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today? 

Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: LastFootnote on May 13, 2016, 09:12:53 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

Anyway, today's preview will be new Events. It is known!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: pacovf on May 13, 2016, 09:18:43 am
It is known.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Jimmmmm on May 13, 2016, 09:52:09 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

I don't know, replacing the starting Estates was pretty exciting back then.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: pst on May 13, 2016, 10:11:11 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

I don't know, replacing the starting Estates was pretty exciting back then.

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe you!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: flaquito on May 13, 2016, 10:20:01 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

I don't know, replacing the starting Estates was pretty exciting back then.

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe you!

Get off my Estate! And turn down that Wandering Minstrel!
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: werothegreat on May 13, 2016, 10:28:53 am
Man, if Landmarks were Previews Day 4, what madness has Donald saved for today?

I'm not sure why people are expecting Donald to save the best for last with these previews. That hasn't really been the case in the past. For example, the last Dark Ages preview day was just the three Shelters.

I don't know, replacing the starting Estates was pretty exciting back then.

But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Witherweaver on May 13, 2016, 10:35:43 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yWamjwFip2KZ2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 13, 2016, 12:19:04 pm
As of the Events preview we've seen:
24/76 pieces of card art.
16/60 VP symbols.
6/16 red hexagons.
1/10 uses of "Setup".
1/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
An Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

We've seen at least one of each thing that was teased except the way to bid. I hope that will be our bonus preview for today.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: J Reggie on May 13, 2016, 02:30:43 pm
And as of the final preview (Castles) we've seen:
32/76 pieces of card art.
26/60 VP symbols.
6/16 red hexagons.
1/10 uses of "Setup".
1/2 Duration cards.
1/2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.
An Action-Treasure card.
An Event costing $14.
A way to double your money.
No way to bid.

Still no way to bid. Gotta leave us speculating about something. If someone wants to check these numbers that'd be cool; I may have missed something in there.
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: mith on May 13, 2016, 02:41:42 pm
And with Castles taking up a bunch of art, the likely breakdown is now:

24 Kingdom (5 Split, 1 Castles)
21 Landmarks
13 Events

Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: Beyond Awesome on May 13, 2016, 02:55:13 pm
As far as there being 5 split piles depends on whether or not the randomizers count as new art. If they are both pictures on a single card does that really make it new artwork?
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: mith on May 13, 2016, 03:15:58 pm
If it doesn't count, there would need to be 5 or 6 more split piles (depending on how Castles is handled - as the 5/5 split piles with some sort of combined artwork, or as Knights with a completely separate artwork). Or the extra art would need to come from somewhere else (which is certainly possible).
Title: Re: Teasers!
Post by: eHalcyon on June 06, 2016, 07:48:42 pm
Hard to say.  It might even count for less, since the art for (e.g.) Gladiator and the art for Fortune are actually just different crops of the same piece of art, which will be the randomizer.

I don't know whether the randomizer art for split piles counted as separate art for the teasers (too lazy to do the math, though I think they might have), but I still feel vindicated by the reveal of the Patrician/Emporium randomizer art. :P