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Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Let's Discuss ... => Topic started by: werothegreat on March 25, 2016, 08:49:00 am

Title: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: werothegreat on March 25, 2016, 08:49:00 am
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/a/a9/Transmogrify.jpg)

*biologist pushes glasses up nose while pointing laser pointer at slide* "The resulting abomination is why I argue that magic is no substitute for science when it comes to genetics."

-How does this compare to other Remodelers?
-What are Transmogrify's best uses?
-Is this card too slow?
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: J Reggie on March 25, 2016, 09:43:29 am
Transmogrify is a really fun card, but I think it needs to be thought of differently than most other remodellers. First of all, it can't get rid of coppers and curses (barring edge cases). I think it's the only remodeller that can't do that. Second, I think it's much more effective at making your turn better than making your deck better. It can really help you get and keep your pace by putting the cards you want in your starting hand, and I feel like that's its main appeal.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: Davio on March 25, 2016, 09:47:45 am
It's not a straight up trasher, but a value trasher, meaning you can increasingly improve your deck each time you trash.
You want to use this to upgrade existing cards (like Mine), not trash cards entirely.

The fact that you have to play it twice is offset by remodeling in-hand and having more choices to remodel.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on March 25, 2016, 09:48:24 am
Transmogrify is my favorite reserve card. It has so much potential.
First of all, it can't get rid of coppers and curses (barring edge cases).
Wait, what? I was under the impression you could trash 0 costing cards with it, just get nothing in your hand.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: drsteelhammer on March 25, 2016, 09:55:16 am
Transmogrify is my favorite reserve card. It has so much potential.
First of all, it can't get rid of coppers and curses (barring edge cases).
Wait, what? I was under the impression you could trash 0 costing cards with it, just get nothing in your hand.

Nope, you have to gain another $0 card, then. (Or a poor house)
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: J Reggie on March 25, 2016, 09:57:37 am
Transmogrify is my favorite reserve card. It has so much potential.
First of all, it can't get rid of coppers and curses (barring edge cases).
Wait, what? I was under the impression you could trash 0 costing cards with it, just get nothing in your hand.

It's the only card that says "up to 1 more" so it's kind of confusing, but yeah, if you trash a copper or curse with it, you just get another copper/curse in your hand (again, Poor House, Bridge Troll etc can change this).

Edit: ninja'd
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: Davio on March 25, 2016, 09:59:55 am
Even if you could trash Coppers en Curses, that seems like a pretty bad use for it.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures
Post by: LastFootnote on March 25, 2016, 10:05:55 am
You can turns Curses into Coppers, which isn't the most exciting use of Transmogrify, but is certainly sometimes the right move.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: werothegreat on March 25, 2016, 10:50:41 am
Just realized I didn't finish the title.  Fixed.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Kirian on March 25, 2016, 01:54:52 pm
You can turns Curses into Coppers, which isn't the most exciting use of Transmogrify, but is certainly sometimes the right move.

I've done this with Butcher many times.  This would seem to be just as good for it, and cheaper.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: jomini on March 25, 2016, 02:20:29 pm
By far, the best option with Transmogrify is to flip estates, silvers or other cards into a village or draw so you can kick off mid-game engine turns with lower component densities. A hand of Silver, two coppers, Tr, and Smithy is vastly worse than TrTrCCSmithy.

As far as speed at the opening. Meh, it is not blindingly fast like Remake, but it is a pretty nice way to up your cash density. It is a turn slower than Jack, and you have high odds of $3 or lower hands ... but you have a lot of mid-game flexibility. It is an absolute beast with on-trash effects in the early game as you can both improve buying power and trigger your on trash effect (e.g. E -> S, discard Market square, gain a gold). Fortress works very nicely if you have $5 draw and even Squire can work nicely if only to replace the dead Squire. Being able to wait until the best time in a shuffle to trash is very nice if you are doing something complicated. Transmogrify is also very nice on a lot of potion boards, you lower the odds of bad potion hands and also have the option of making the Pot into an immediately playable $5.

The down side of Transmogrify is that you must trash at the start of the turn. If you are building an engine or just have plenty of draw, that makes it ever less likely that you will hit the last estate or that you will find that Province to make into a Plat. This also makes it far weaker at cannibalizing your deck near game end, you have to be awfully sure of yourself to junk a Smithy into a Duchy if you still need to draw a province buying hand to win the game.

One heuristic that isn't bad is to think if you would take Procession here. You do not get the double play first, but you also do not have to worry as much about alignment and you get to play the big card sooner. Something like Transmogrify/Smithy/Bazaar/Grand market/Kc would be ideal. You turn Estates to silvers early and later you chain your way up

Having multiple Transmogrifies lined up is also nice for retooling your deck. E.g. you go Festival/Library and your opponent then goes Council room/Festival, if can be handy to be able to swap Libs for Huntinggrounds or Altars. This can be exceedingly nice when your opponent has committed to a deck that has a particular weakness (e.g. Possession against Madmen decks, discard attacks against a lot of Golden decks, Swindler against Hparty decks). In general, though, I have not seen too much call for multiple Transmogrifies outside of a handful of power combos (e.g. Transmog/Fort/Catacombs, Transmog/Scout/Rabble).

Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Mavy2k on March 25, 2016, 05:02:22 pm
Transmogrify is an okayish trasher for Estates and Curses, but has a lot more potential than that.
You can trash your Cultist to draw 3 cards and replace the Cultist. Trashing Rats for an extra card is pretty nice too.
You can easily threaten a 3-pile, if you have several sitting on your mat. Hunting Grounds looks particular nice with this.
Or if you have a bad draw you can exchange one of your cards for one that helps your engine go off.
This is a card that makes any engine more reliable.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: scott_pilgrim on March 25, 2016, 06:24:33 pm
You can turns Curses into Coppers, which isn't the most exciting use of Transmogrify, but is certainly sometimes the right move.

I've done this with Butcher many times.  This would seem to be just as good for it, and cheaper.

Butcher gives you two coin tokens, whereas Transmogrify gives you $1 to spend this turn (I know there are edge cases).  I think that more than makes up for the price difference.

Either way you're probably not getting Butcher or Transmogrify just to turn Curses into Coppers so I don't think it's really relevant to anything, but I do think Butcher is significantly better than Transmogrify for that use.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Seprix on March 25, 2016, 09:01:14 pm
Transmogrify is very good in some aspects, but very bad in others.

Pros: You can trash from your hand and directly gain into your hand.
Cons: Only at the start of your turn. Oh, and you have to play this a turn in advance to make it worth it.

Transmogrify gets better with Wharf (most cards do). Transmogrify is awesome with Dark Ages cards.

Overall, I don't think it's a great card. It's good to have one or two of these cards handy in an engine, but nothing you should buy en mass. It's a hard card to evaluate, because it really depends on the kingdom, more so than some other cards.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: faust on March 26, 2016, 06:53:01 am
Nice late-game combo: Transmogrify/Distant Lands.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: mameluke on March 26, 2016, 11:42:33 am
Nice late-game combo: Transmogrify/Distant Lands.

Very cool idea. Even though the bonus isn't on-play, if there are good silver gainers, transmogrifying a silver into an Island and setting it aside with an Estate might be a good early game move, too.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Beyond Awesome on March 26, 2016, 01:59:11 pm
I think Transmogrify is better thought of not as a trasher, but as a card that helps your opening draws each turn. Essentially with this on the mat, if you have terminal collision, you can switch a card out, get a village or upgrade it into something better. Sometimes, you want to upgrade cards, but there are even cases where you want to downgrade. What I am finding out with this card the more I play with it is that it adds more consistency to engines.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Davio on March 26, 2016, 02:15:13 pm
You can turns Curses into Coppers, which isn't the most exciting use of Transmogrify, but is certainly sometimes the right move.

I've done this with Butcher many times.  This would seem to be just as good for it, and cheaper.
I'm not saying it's bad, just that you can often do other more useful things.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Beyond Awesome on March 27, 2016, 10:30:11 pm
Further expanding upon my terminal collision idea, this might allow you to overbuild with terminals. Let's say you want key terminal $5's. With Transmogrify, you can keep buying that key $5 and when they collide, you can switch them out for a $5 village, assuming one is on the board. So, that's a thought to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: ackmondual on April 30, 2016, 04:24:07 pm
One nice thing about this card is it IS a Reserve card, so you get to use it on the turns where you have something good to use it on.  Or at the very least, before you draw your cards from playing cards that let you draw them.  Cards like Remodel require you to be able to get them, and then have at least an Action to play them.

Nice late-game combo: Transmogrify/Distant Lands.
That's what I've been doing.  Transmogrify itself is a $4 card, so by way events, there will always be something to Transmogrify from.  If you have 2 of these in your Tavern with a Silver, you can double Transmogrify the Silver into a Distant Lands.

In either case, getting a Distant Lands in this fashion is a guaranteed 4pts since it goes in your hand, and you'll have at least one action to use it.  I wouldn't mind using this early on either, as the Distant Lands that gets Reserved stays out of your deck.


EDIT: In your Tavern, not in hand
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: drsteelhammer on April 30, 2016, 04:46:47 pm
That's what I've been doing.  Transmogrify itself is a $4 card, so by way events, there will always be something to Transmogrify from.  If you have 2 of these in hand with a Silver, you can double Transmogrify the Silver into a Distant Lands.

In either case, getting a Distant Lands in this fashion is a guaranteed 4pts since it goes in your hand, and you'll have at least one action to use it.  I wouldn't mind using this early on either, as the Distant Lands that gets Reserved stays out of your deck.

If you have two Transmogrifies in hand, you can not use them in the same turn.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: ackmondual on May 01, 2016, 03:17:34 am
That's what I've been doing.  Transmogrify itself is a $4 card, so by way events, there will always be something to Transmogrify from.  If you have 2 of these in hand with a Silver, you can double Transmogrify the Silver into a Distant Lands.

In either case, getting a Distant Lands in this fashion is a guaranteed 4pts since it goes in your hand, and you'll have at least one action to use it.  I wouldn't mind using this early on either, as the Distant Lands that gets Reserved stays out of your deck.

If you have two Transmogrifies in hand, you can not use them in the same turn.
I meant to say in Tavern.  Corrected!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: wachsmuth on May 05, 2016, 03:57:29 pm
I predict that this card is going to have lots of swings in the card rankings. It has so far been extremely difficult for me to judge how good this card is, though I have noticed that it is very hard to play well. Possible candidate for 'most difficult card to play correctly in Dominion' (last time someone asked that question, Procession seems to have won).
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Seprix on May 05, 2016, 08:56:50 pm
I predict that this card is going to have lots of swings in the card rankings. It has so far been extremely difficult for me to judge how good this card is, though I have noticed that it is very hard to play well. Possible candidate for 'most difficult card to play correctly in Dominion' (last time someone asked that question, Procession seems to have won).

It's not as hard to use as Procession. It's an incredibly high skill card to use, but I'm doing quite well with it. It's great for milling Provinces when you're ahead, especially when you have 4 of them sitting on your bench.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Beyond Awesome on May 05, 2016, 09:15:40 pm
Procession is a lot harder to use. Overall, Transmogrify is an awesome card.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: drsteelhammer on May 06, 2016, 02:40:43 am
I think wachsmuth has a point. Like Procession, there are some easy Transmogrify calls (get village if you have a hand of 3 Smithies and 2Coppers), but also very, very hard ones. Having 5 of them on your mat means there will be a point where you have can call five of them and play for a pileout, but you're screwed if it doesn't work out.

Probably my favourite new card.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: ipofanes on April 04, 2018, 03:07:22 am
Further expanding upon my terminal collision idea, this might allow you to overbuild with terminals. Let's say you want key terminal $5's. With Transmogrify, you can keep buying that key $5 and when they collide, you can switch them out for a $5 village, assuming one is on the board. So, that's a thought to keep in mind.

If it were the only application of Transmogrify, Coin of the Realm would do it as well but cheaper. The point is that in many kingdoms it's just one application. Today I had two Transmogrifies on Tavern and two Silvers in hand, which I could swap for two Treasure Maps.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Oyvind on April 04, 2018, 09:27:16 am
Butcher gives you +2 Coffers

FTFY
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Awaclus on April 04, 2018, 09:31:20 am
Butcher gives you +2 Coffers

FTFY

You're fixing a post that's over two years old.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Oyvind on April 04, 2018, 09:51:04 am
Butcher gives you +2 Coffers

FTFY

You're fixing a post that's over two years old.

I know, it was just a pathetic attempt at humor. Please don't take me seriously.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Gazbag on April 04, 2018, 12:05:22 pm
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: crj on April 04, 2018, 06:43:45 pm
It's Salt The Earth. Ish.
It's Band of Misfits/Overlord. Ish.
It's Upgrade. Ish.

It's an interesting card!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Dami4070 on April 06, 2018, 09:53:33 am
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

Yes, I often like to buy Transmogrify early, stack them up and mill the provinces once I've got enough of a lead to guarantee a win.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Seprix on April 06, 2018, 11:23:29 pm
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

Yes, I often like to buy Transmogrify early, stack them up and mill the provinces once I've got enough of a lead to guarantee a win.

That doesn't work against a competent opponent.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Gazbag on April 07, 2018, 06:33:14 am
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

Yes, I often like to buy Transmogrify early, stack them up and mill the provinces once I've got enough of a lead to guarantee a win.

That doesn't work against a competent opponent.

Neither does Salt the Earth!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: ackmondual on May 31, 2018, 11:15:07 pm
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

Yes, I often like to buy Transmogrify early, stack them up and mill the provinces once I've got enough of a lead to guarantee a win.

That doesn't work against a competent opponent.

Neither does Salt the Earth!
Salt The Player!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on June 16, 2018, 10:36:45 am
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

Yes, I often like to buy Transmogrify early, stack them up and mill the provinces once I've got enough of a lead to guarantee a win.

That doesn't work against a competent opponent.

Neither does Salt the Earth!
Salt The Player!

So if you buy it you're... in-salting the player?  8)
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
Post by: Seprix on June 17, 2018, 04:12:51 pm
So if you buy it you're... in-salting the player?  8)

Not even a chuckle.