(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/thief.jpg) | #43 Thief (Base) Weighted Average: 41.22 / Median: 42 / Mode: 43 / Standard Deviation: 2.4 Highest Rank(s): #34 (1x), #35 (1x), #38 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (13x) Thief is without doubt the worst $4 card in the game. The next card has a healthy margin and Thief has by far the lowest deviation of all $4 cards. Nearly the half of all players ranked it last. An attack on the last position may seem strange, but Thief has the big problem helping your opponent in the early game. Its a free trasher for your opponent and even later it's so risky hitting the Coppers of your opponent. Its only use may be in thin Chapel decks or if you manage to play it multiple times per turn. And it gets better in 3- or 4-player games, where you can minimize the risk of getting nothing and hitting Coppers. It can be a nice counter against a Ill-Gotten-Gains rush dealing out curses with it, but it is still swingy and therefore still a bad card. You don't want it early and in the later game it's almost never worth a buy. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/scout.jpg) | #42 Scout (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 39.12 / Median: 38.5 / Mode: 37 / Standard Deviation: 5.3 Highest Rank(s): #21 (1x), #28 (1x), #29 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (4x) Although it has a higher median than the next card and a pretty high mode (it got #37 6 times), it still only is second last. Only four cards have a lower deviation, so the consensus is still high and it even got last 4 times and #42 6 times too. Scout has its uses. You don't need to spend an action, but it isn't a cantrip, so it really can hurt your deck. If you're massively greening this can be nice as it makes your next turn better, but is still not good. The best uses are: making Crossroads way better, it has a nice synergy with Wishing Well (making it a cheap Lab) and of course it's great with dual-type-victory cards like Harem, Great Hall and Nobles, making Scout a Lab or even better. There might be more edge cases when Scout shines, but those cases are rare and most of the times you can win without buying a Scout. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/coppersmith.jpg) | #41 Coppersmith (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 38.27 / Median: 39 / Mode: 41 / Standard Deviation: 6.2 Highest Rank(s): #16 (1x), #22 (1x), #26 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (11x), #43 (2x) Coppersmith is the third last card with a third of all players ranking it there. It has a below average deviation, but it's really high for such a low ranked card, because it has a few outliers in way higher rank regions. Yes, Coppersmith is very hard to rank, because it's either clearly the worst card on the board or it's very dominating. As a opener you may get to $6 or even $8, but you also can draw only one Copper, so it's very swingy as a opener and gets worse later. On the other hand King's Court + Coppersmith can become brutal and it has some nice synergy with Apothecary and Counting House. The cases where it shines may occur more rarely than with any other card, but then it's a must-buy. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/talisman.jpg) | #40 Talisman (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 37.84 / Median: 38.5 / Mode: 40 / Standard Deviation: 4.2 Highest Rank(s): #28 (1x), #29 (1x), #30 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (4x) Talisman is the card with the third least deviation, so no surprise here. No-one ranked it last, but 4 people ranked it second last and 5 people ranked it exactly on #40. There are very few cards for $4, you want in masses. Silk Road and Gardens may be a exception, but Talisman doesn't work with victory cards. So there are even less cards you want for free with Talisman. Caravan and in some cases Throne Room, Conspirator and Tournament came to my mind being the only cards which makes Talisman a good buy, especially as a opener. You can build a Village + Smithy/Envoy quicker too, but this is rarely worth a Talisman buy since you need money too. But it shines especially with cost reducers like Quarry, Bridge and especially Highway. Play Highway, play Talisman, buy Highway, get one for free, that's nice. Talisman is also nice for a quick 3-pile ending. This works well with Bishop for example: get many Talismans and then Bishops, trash Talismans for 3VP and try to three-pile. But Talisman also can hurt very badly since the free extra card is not optional, so only buy Talisman if you really want cheap card in masses. And don't forget: if you're buying more expensive cards you've spent $4 for a Copper. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bureaucrat.jpg) | #39 Bureaucrat (Base) Weighted Average: 35.75 / Median: 37 / Mode: 39 / Standard Deviation: 5.3 Highest Rank(s): #22 (1x), #26 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (4x), #43 (1x) We make the next big jump and can observe a close battle for not getting into the Bottom 5. Bureaucrat loses, maybe it got bad rankings more often with one last place, so that its high ranks couldn't save it. The attack of Bureaucrat is weak. Your opponent loses one card that he don't need anyway for him getting another 4 card hand in the next turn. And he might even be able to counter that easily by playing Farming Village of Cartographer for example. The attack gets better in multiplayer games, especially if there are dual-type victory cards like Nobles or Harem on the board. The benefit on the other side still isn't good either. Top-decked silvers are nice, especially in the beginning and you can get to $8 with 4 silvers too, but it's not easy. So it seems Bureaucrat is nice where you don't want to get to $8, like in Duke / Gardens / Silk Road games, but then Bureacrat is a good counter too. And you can play your Bureaucrat less frequently if your deck is already flooded with silvers. Bureacrat + Big Money is not bad on the other side as it doesn't seem to have synergies well with other cards. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/noble-brigand.jpg) | #38 Noble Brigand (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 35.71 / Median: 36.5 / Mode: 41 / Standard Deviation: 5.6 Highest Rank(s): #24 (1x), #25 (1x), #26 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (5x), #42 (2x) Noble Brigand wins against Bureaucrat with a 0.04 point lead. It didn't got any last place, but got third last 5 times in exchange. So the order of these two isn't fixed. Noble Brigand is the better Thief on many boards. It hasn't the disadvantage of trashing the opponents Coppers, making it a better opener. It even attacks on-buy. It deals out Coppers too which is nice playing against no-treasure decks. And it gives $1 too, so you have at least an immediate benefit. But it's worse in Colony games as it cannot steal Platinum, it cannot steal Ill-Gotten-Gains like Thief and cannot steal other Kingdom treasure cards. And most important: it's still too slow and doesn't hurt enough if you can't play one nearly each turn. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/navigator.jpg) | #37 Navigator (Seaside) Weighted Average: 34.56 / Median: 35 / Mode: 32 / Standard Deviation: 5.7 Highest Rank(s): #21 (1x), #22 (1x), #29 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (4x) Navigator is the card with the second most last places shared with Scout. But Navigator is the first card with a way higher mode with 7 times #32. It also has a worse unweighted average than Noble Brigand, so better players seem to rank Navigator higher than Newbies. Scout is at least non-terminal and therefore nice for Wishing Well to draw the top-decked cards. Top-decking the next 5 cards in a specific order is only nice if you have still an action left to draw a few of them. Because if you don't do that, you draw all 5 cards no matter in what order you put them back. The discarding option is nice to minimize shuffle luck and to get a half Chancellor effect, but still it is terminal and most of the time there are better terminal cards on the board. At least it gives you $2. The best use still may be to enable Tunnel's reaction. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/nomad-camp.jpg) | #36 Nomad Camp (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 33.92 / Median: 33.5 / Mode: 32 / Standard Deviation: 5.3 Highest Rank(s): #21 (1x), #25 (1x), #27 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (2x), #43 (2x) Nomad Camp has two last places too with 4 last places still to come. It has a pretty low deviation, the fifth least like Scout. With only 4 times #32, the mode has not much significance here. Woodcutter was the third worst $3 card. Here we have a Woodcutter with a on-buy top-deck ability. Is it worth costing $1 more? And how can it be that it ranks higher than Woodcutter? IMO there are only 2-3 reasons for that. You have a high chance to get a $5 card on turn 2 even with a 4/3 opening which is nice especially for Hunting Party and Cursers. Similar to that it is nice you need the +Buy either way and need multiple cheap cards as fast you can. But the only opening which is strong is IMO Nomad Camp / Fool's Gold / Fool's Gold. The last reason is if you're really unlucky in the late game and only get $4 and want to maximize the chances to hit $8 in the next turn. Beside of that it's only an expensive Woodcutter. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/walled-village.jpg) | #35 Walled Village (Promo) Weighted Average: 32.86 / Median: 32.5 / Mode: 30 / Standard Deviation: 4.7 Highest Rank(s): #27 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #40 (2x), #42 (2x) Walled Village is the next promo in the list. Its low deviation (fourth least) shows the consensus in its rank. As we get nearer to the middle ranks, the mode gets less significance, it was #30 4 times. It is the worst of the four $4 villages. Why? Its only ability is top deck it if you weren't able to use both actions. So this is nice if you have only 2-3 terminal actions and really want to play them each time without taking the risk of colliding. The only reason opening with Walled Village could be if there's a $3 key card and you want a second one later too. Because of that Walled Village / Masquerade and Walled Village / Ambassador are Level 4 openings rankings on #91 and #114 on Councilroom respectively. In all other cases it is the same as the normal village. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/pirateship.jpg) | #34 Pirate Ship (Seaside) Weighted Average: 32.71 / Median: 33 / Mode: 33 / Standard Deviation: 8.6 Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #9 (1x), #19 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #40 (4x), #41 (1x), #43 (1x) Pirate Ship is only 0.15 points higher than Walled Village and has a clearly higher deviation than all cards before, but is still only 14th in the deviation ranking (that shows the big discussion I expect in the next part). It got last once (with three more to come) and is the first card that even got in the Top 10 twice. There's the third attack that trashes treasures (tongue twister). Pirate Ship is the best one, but still not good. Or is it? The high ranks may result from players mainly playing 3- or 4-player games where Pirate Ships can be devastating. In 2-player games it's too slow most of the times. The advantage over Thief and Noble Brigand is getting virtual money and therefore not clogging your deck so you can play Pirate Ship more often and get the coins more often. So, with Pirate Ship you really want to buy as many as you can, so you can play them multiple times, and with Throne Room or King's Court this card is really great. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/spy.jpg) | #33 Spy (Base) Weighted Average: 32.17 / Median: 32 / Mode: 31 / Standard Deviation: 6.7 Highest Rank(s): #17 (1x), #18 (1x), #23 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (1x), #43 (2x) Spy got on the last place twice, so there's only one more last place left. It has two outliers in the Top 20. It's unweighted average is lower than Pirate Ship, so higher ranked players seem to rank Spy higher than Pirate Ship. An attack that is a cantrip, that seems nice at the first look. But Spy is an attack with a pretty bad attack and little benefit. It's very swingy as you can discard your victory card (or even your Tunnel) and discard the only Witch of your opponent, but you can hit a victory card of your opponent too that you put back. That's no change for your opponent and he even may use that additional info for the next turn. You can add a Spy in your drawing engine if you have a buy and money left, but is really rarely worth a buy. It may have ranked that high, because it's a cantrip and at least don't hurt (or hurts less than a few other cards already mentioned above may hurt). If we already cards with different costs (Warehouse and Cellar), the way better Cartographer comes into my mind. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/treasuremap.jpg) | #32 Treasure Map (Seaside) Weighted Average: 31.57 / Median: 31.5 / Mode: 31 / Standard Deviation: 8.8 Highest Rank(s): #7 (1x), #9 (1x), #14 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #39 (3x), #40 (1x), #42 (1x) Treasure Map's stats seem similar to the Pirate Ship ones. Two outliers in the Top 10 too, similar high deviation, but no last place this time, only a second last place this time. I can already here the outcry of a card that ranks that high and is so luck-dependant. Its power is undeniable thou. An early enabling can already decide a game. But you can hardly call it strategy going for Treasure Map. You really need enablers for that, like Warehouse, Chapel, Tactician or the Watchtower/Talisman combo. If you go for Treasure Map without such enablers, you totally rely on your luck. And losing against a totally luck-based enabling can really be frustrating. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/feast.jpg) | #31 Feast (Base) Weighted Average: 30.25 / Median: 31.5 / Mode: 36 / Standard Deviation: 8.2 Highest Rank(s): #7 (1x), #12 (1x), #18 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #38 (1x), #40 (1x), #41 (1x) Feast is the last card before a big gap. So its the best card of the bad third of the $4 cards. It has two outliers again with one in the Top 10 and very low mode. Feast basically does nothing but being a one-shot balancing bad shuffle luck, especially at the start. If you really want a specific $5 card and have a 4/3 opening you can open with Feast and can be sure to get that $5 card soon. It also can be used with Throne Room and King's Court to gain multiple $5 cards. |
Woodcutter was the third worst $3 card. Here we have a Woodcutter with a on-buy top-deck ability. Is it worth costing $1 more? And how can it be that it ranks higher than Woodcutter?
IMO there are only 2-3 reasons for that. You have a high chance to get a $5 card on turn 2 even with a 4/3 opening which is nice especially for Hunting Party and Cursers. Similar to that it is nice you need the +Buy either way and need multiple cheap cards as fast you can. But the only opening which is strong is IMO Nomad Camp / Fool's Gold / Fool's Gold. The last reason is if you're really unlucky in the late game and only get $4 and want to maximize the chances to hit $8 in the next turn. Beside of that it's only an expensive Woodcutter.
Thief is without doubt the worst card in the game.
FWIW I really struggled with the middle third of the #4 cards and I would be disappointed if there *wasn't* a massive range for some of them. Heck, I struggled with the top third too, after a fairly obvious top 4 the next ten or so were all very hard to tease apart, though there was definitely a break between them and the mid-level cards.Fixed that for you.
Also:Woodcutter was the third worst $3 card. Here we have a Woodcutter with a on-buy top-deck ability. Is it worth costing $1 more? And how can it be that it ranks higher than Woodcutter?
IMO there are only 2-3 reasons for that. You have a high chance to get a $5 card on turn 2 even with a 4/3 opening which is nice especially for Hunting Party and Cursers. Similar to that it is nice you need the +Buy either way and need multiple cheap cards as fast you can. But the only opening which is strong is IMO Nomad Camp / Fool's Gold / Fool's Gold. The last reason is if you're really unlucky in the late game and only get $4 and want to maximize the chances to hit $8 in the next turn. Beside of that it's only an expensive Woodcutter.
There's another reason for that: the bad $4 cards are far worse than the bad $3 cards. Nomad Camp looks better by comparison because there's just so much more competition on the bottom end.
Oh, one last thing:Thief is without doubt not the worst card in the game (though in 2P it's close).
Fixed that for you. :P
Fixed that for you.
Come on, transmute!
You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
...huh? I mean, sure that CAN happen, but it's only likely if they have so much green they're totally paralyzed anyway....You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
I would think that in the last scenario, Thief will be more likely to help your opponent than hurt, just by discarding 2 green cards from the top of his deck.
...huh? I mean, sure that CAN happen, but it's only likely if they have so much green they're totally paralyzed anyway....You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
I would think that in the last scenario, Thief will be more likely to help your opponent than hurt, just by discarding 2 green cards from the top of his deck.
You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
It's maybe a bit unfortunate that the card rankings are basically assuming 2 player games.
You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
I guess I could imagine Thief being worth a buy in a setup with Chapel and Fool's Gold, okay. But I'm not convinced about the rest. I mean, sure, it can put the hurt on a Chapel Big Money deck... but Chapel Big Money isn't actually much of an improvement over straight BM; it's not like Thief is countering what would otherwise be an unstoppable strategy. Rather the presence of Thief would at best discourage me from doing something that's unnecessary to begin with. I'll grant Fool's Gold and possibly Venture as exceptions.It's maybe a bit unfortunate that the card rankings are basically assuming 2 player games.
I think Pirate Ship is the only card where it really makes much of a difference. And even if we assumed people play multiplayer far more often then they actually do, it'd still in the bottom bottom third IMO.
Or copper....huh? I mean, sure that CAN happen, but it's only likely if they have so much green they're totally paralyzed anyway....You clearly underestimate thief. And that's really hard to do.
It's nice in trashing games where you have to go money. Heck, it beats big money, so on a board with a bunch of junk...
It's also nice in games with particular treasures you need to get a lead on (yeah, I'm looking at fool's gold here), and probably most importantly, in games with alternate VP cards, where you're really slogged down in a muck of green by the end.
I would think that in the last scenario, Thief will be more likely to help your opponent than hurt, just by discarding 2 green cards from the top of his deck.
I guess when I read "alternate VP cards" I immediately thought of either Duke or Silk Roads, in which case I'd think it's not too uncommon for the top 2 cards to be victory. But I also suppose that hitting a silver would be much more devastating in those games.
The cases where it (Coppersmith) shines may occur more rarely than with any other card, but then it's a must-buy.
Really surprised to see spy (my rank #43) winning out over situationally useful cards like bureaucrat (my rank #33), thief (#39) and feast (#27). Buying a spy is almost the same as skipping your buy. You haven't made your deck any weaker by adding a spy but you haven't made your deck any stronger either. In fact, if you have any kind of terminal draw, buying a spy hurts you more than it helps. The attack is at best a weaker bureaucrat that can't be chained and buying a catnip for the sake of buying a catnip is almost always a stupid idea. If it let you look at the top card before drawing it, it might have some use but I honestly can't think of a use for spies when vineyards, conspirators or peddlers aren't on the board.It's quite good in TR and KC chains.
Really surprised to see spy (my rank #43) winning out over situationally useful cards like bureaucrat (my rank #33), thief (#39) and feast (#27). Buying a spy is almost the same as skipping your buy. You haven't made your deck any weaker by adding a spy but you haven't made your deck any stronger either. In fact, if you have any kind of terminal draw, buying a spy hurts you more than it helps. The attack is at best a weaker bureaucrat that can't be chained and buying a catnip for the sake of buying a catnip is almost always a stupid idea. If it let you look at the top card before drawing it, it might have some use but I honestly can't think of a use for spies when vineyards, conspirators or peddlers aren't on the board.
Really surprised to see spy (my rank #43) winning out over situationally useful cards like bureaucrat (my rank #33), thief (#39) and feast (#27). Buying a spy is almost the same as skipping your buy. You haven't made your deck any weaker by adding a spy but you haven't made your deck any stronger either. In fact, if you have any kind of terminal draw, buying a spy hurts you more than it helps. The attack is at best a weaker bureaucrat that can't be chained and buying a catnip for the sake of buying a catnip is almost always a stupid idea. If it let you look at the top card before drawing it, it might have some use but I honestly can't think of a use for spies when vineyards, conspirators or peddlers aren't on the board.
Thief is pretty strong in 4p gardens games. No, seriously.
Really surprised to see spy (my rank #43) winning out over situationally useful cards like bureaucrat (my rank #33), thief (#39) and feast (#27). Buying a spy is almost the same as skipping your buy. You haven't made your deck any weaker by adding a spy but you haven't made your deck any stronger either. In fact, if you have any kind of terminal draw, buying a spy hurts you more than it helps. The attack is at best a weaker bureaucrat that can't be chained and buying a catnip for the sake of buying a catnip is almost always a stupid idea. If it let you look at the top card before drawing it, it might have some use but I honestly can't think of a use for spies when vineyards, conspirators or peddlers aren't on the board.
This seems really harsh. It may not be a great card, but it gives you a shot at improving your next hand and a shot at hurting your opponents'. The very real possibility of failing to do any of those things is significant, but not so much that it renders it "almost" useless. And it can be chained: it can be chained right up until the first one fails.
Even in the absence of combos, a Spy or two can tip the balance: note how a Sea Hag discarding your opponent's key opening buy can win the game for you outright. Why is it strong and swingy when a Sea Hag discards a power card, but weak when a Spy does it?
If sea hag's attack was a weaker version of fortune teller, it certainly would be a bad card.I read this as: "If you replace the strongest attack ability in the game with a weak one, it certainly would be a bad card."
To put spy's power into perspective, imagine it was an alternate version of fortune teller that gave you your average card value instead of +2$ and the attack only worked ~%50 of the time. Would you spend more to buy it over fortune teller which is already one of the weaker $3?This is a misrepresentation of why spy does. You're leaving out the +1 action, as well as the fact that fortune teller's attack can go very wrong, while spy's is optional, so it can't go terribly wrong.
It may be harsh but I think spy deserves it. The value of a spy to your deck is roughly equilivent to ( the # of dead cards in your deck) * (average card value) assuming that you never buy any terminal card draw which is a major assumption. That means that spy improves your starting deck by less than if you had bought a copper! (not 100% certain on my math but it seems right).
But remember that the ratio of dead cards decreases as you buy better cards so the chance of spy hitting something bad in either yours or your opponent's deck also decreases.
The fact that it's a cantrip (not catnip ) that sometimes fails when chained doesn't help it either.
I did overlook spy as part of a kings court/terminal drawer combo which it is indeed worthwhile to buy a few spies. Kings Court is a major game changer though and can make alot of cards better than they could be alone.
To put spy's power into perspective, imagine it was an alternate version of fortune teller that gave you your average card value instead of +2$ and the attack only worked ~%50 of the time. Would you spend more to buy it over fortune teller which is already one of the weaker $3?
Talisman : I don't think Talisman help a lot for conspirators chains, but I like talisman. It's a great buy to get villages+, caravans or good 4$ cards you need in quantity. Really, Talisman is quite good.
To progress further the player must begin experimenting with and using these cards in the situations where they are very good.
So apparently there's one card not in this bottom third which got a last-place vote, and I am racking my brain trying to think what missing card could conceivably be considered that bad. I'm kinda hoping someone gave JoaT a last-place rank just for the lulz, but I fear it's going to be something criminally underrated like Cutpurse.
So apparently there's one card not in this bottom third which got a last-place vote, and I am racking my brain trying to think what missing card could conceivably be considered that bad. I'm kinda hoping someone gave JoaT a last-place rank just for the lulz, but I fear it's going to be something criminally underrated like Cutpurse.My guess is Throne Room. Alternatively, I've seen someone repeatedly play Mining Village -> trash -> play 2/3 coppers -> buy a Mining Village, so if he submitted a ranking...
Complicating things is the fact that you have no guarantee that your Talismans will turn up on a turn where you have enough money to buy what you want to duplicate AND not so much that you wouldn't rather buy a single $5+ card instead.
Just one note... For Bureaucrat, Farming Village does indeed counter it, but Cartographer does not, as he'll draw that Victory card (instead of whatever he would have) when he plays Cartographer.
Woodcutter was the third worst $3 card. Here we have a Woodcutter with a on-buy top-deck ability. Is it worth costing $1 more? And how can it be that it ranks higher than Woodcutter?
IMO there are only 2-3 reasons for that. You have a high chance to get a $5 card on turn 2 even with a 4/3 opening which is nice especially for Hunting Party and Cursers. Similar to that it is nice you need the +Buy either way and need multiple cheap cards as fast you can. But the only opening which is strong is IMO Nomad Camp / Fool's Gold / Fool's Gold. The last reason is if you're really unlucky in the late game and only get $4 and want to maximize the chances to hit $8 in the next turn. Beside of that it's only an expensive Woodcutter.
There's another reason for that: the bad $4 cards are far worse than the bad $3 cards. Nomad Camp looks better by comparison because there's just so much more competition on the bottom end.
Oh, one last thing:Thief is without doubt the worst card in the game.
Fixed that for you. :P
It's maybe a bit unfortunate that the card rankings are basically assuming 2 player games.
Tactician/Coppersmith is the easiest way to abuse Coppersmith, especially if you have Warehouse/Cellar.
I've just made all the lists for myself (I've not voted for this big list), and the $4 and $5 lists are damn tough, mainly because it's just so many cards.
Biggest deviations up to now:
$2: I have Pawn 3 positions higher (at #5)
$3: Oracle is 8 higher (at #13), and Black Market 7 lower (at #22)
I've found it's quite easy to group the cards in tiers/categories (the top3 for the $4 cards were pretty clear), but among them it's nearly impossible to put them into an order without feeling bad about your decision.
Interesting comment about the $3 and $4 cards here. But the $4 cards normally should be better.
My comment about Thief being the worst $4 card is the result of your lists. Your comment is just subjective, even if it's true, another list is needed to prove that.
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/ironworks.jpg) | #30 Ironworks (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 25.92 / Median: 27.5 / Mode: 30 / Standard Deviation: 8.6 Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #8 (1x), #9 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (2x), #39 (2x) Ironworks is the next card after a big 4.3 point gap. This means it's the worst card of the mediocre ones. The average being 4 points higher than the actual rank shows also that the next cards are very close together and perhaps needed more players sending in lists. Ironworks has some really high outliers, with one being on #4. Ironworks is the superior Workshop which was pretty low on the $3 list. Does it deserve a higher rating on the $4 list? The biggest bonus for getting a lot of wanted action cards like Caravan is: Ironworks is non-terminal. So you can get Ironworks with Ironworks and then quickly get Caravans or other $4 cards. Being an Intrigue card it also combos nice with dual-type cards, so getting Great Halls or Islands makes Ironworks a cantrip. And it also works better in Gardens or Silk Road games for getting an additional card and increasing the probability getting to $4. But it lacks the same problem as Workshop: How many $4 cards do you want? So many times Ironworks is skippable. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/remodel.jpg) | #29 Remodel (Base) Weighted Average: 25.08 / Median: 23 / Mode: 22 / Standard Deviation: 9.1 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #8 (1x), #10 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (1x), #39 (1x), #42 (1x) Remodel is the card with the highest deviation so far. It was even second once, but also second last. What could be the reason? As a side note Remodel would be #26 in the unweighted ranking, so it seems that unexperienced players overrate it. Remodel introduced us to the cards that trash for a better card. As a opener it has big problems trashing the Coppers, because you need either good $2 cards on the board you want in masses like Fool's Gold or Lighthouse or you need to remodel in 2 steps (Estate to Silver or another $3-$4 card) which is not really a good idea. But Remodel is good in the later game. Just remodel your money in the respective victory card. It seems some of you take the opener qualities more into account while others did it vice versa, maybe therefore the high variance. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/silk-road.jpg) | #28 Silk Road (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 24.89 / Median: 22.5 / Mode: 17 / Standard Deviation: 9.9 Highest Rank(s): #7 (2x), #15 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #39 (1x), #41 (1x), #42 (1x) Silk Road now has the same problem as I mentioned already a lot of times. How do you rank Victory cards? It has the fourth highest deviation of all $4 cards. It has also a very high mode with ranking on #17 6 times. Silk Road plays similarly to Gardens. You have to rush them, with support of Workshop/Ironworks and/or additional buys for double Estates in the end game. You can pick Gardens up in the late game without rushing them and they are mostly worth 3VP like a Duchy. That's mostly not the case with Silk Road, you need a special strategy for them. But Silk Road is great with a board with dual-type victory cards like Island, Nobles or Harem. I think personal preference has played a big role with that card and I think many still have not much experience with this card what may result in this high variance. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/trader.jpg) | #27 Trader (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 24.29 / Median: 25.5 / Mode: 33 / Standard Deviation: 9.1 Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #8 (1x), #11 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #37 (1x), #38 (1x), #42 (1x) Trader has a significant worse Median than the last two cards and the Mode is much worse too. But the ranks of the better players made the small difference. Trader is - like all Reaction cards - very situational. It's Silver gaining defense is mostly stronger than Watchtower's trashing, so you have to think twice if you really want to play that Curse-giving attack or another card that deals out junk and give your opponent a free Silver, especially with Mountebank on the board for 2 Silvers. Silver is a good opener in non-Colony Big Money games too, so you can trash Estates for 2 Silvers. It's also good with Gardens, eventually trashing a Silver to 3 Silvers. But in all other boards Trader is simply a no-go. So, it deserves this high deviation. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/cutpurse.jpg) | #26 Cutpurse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 23.79 / Median: 25.5 / Mode: 36 / Standard Deviation: 10.2 Highest Rank(s): #10 (2x), #13 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (2x), #43 (1x) Cutpurse has the second highest deviation of all $4 cards. And it has a even worse Mode and the same bad Median as Trader. And it is the last card with a last place. If we would take the unweighted average into account, Cutpurse would be only on #30, so unexperienced players seem to underrate it. Cutpurse is a pretty good opener. It's a terminal Silver that can even hit harder than Militia. In the beginning where every coin is important to get to $5, Cutpurse can be really annoying. And it is even worse in games with more than 2 players where you can lose multiple Coppers in one turn. Yes, later it gets worse and worse and is nothing but a terminal Silver where you can see your opponents hand. So this card is of course very difficult to rank and has therefore the second highest deviation like every card, which is pretty good opener and gets worse afterwards, has a high variation. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/baron.jpg) | #25 Baron (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 23.61 / Median: 23.5 / Mode: 30 / Standard Deviation: 7.7 Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #7 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #30 (3x), #32 (1x), #36 (1x) Baron only has a 0.18 point lead over Cutpurse. Baron is the first card which has no rank in the bottom 5 and has some pretty high ranks too. Baron is very interesting as it gives you a very high probability getting Gold early, but is very swingy too. If you cannot draw your Baron with an Estate, this is dead card in the beginning, because you mostly don't want another Estate (and getting Estate for feeding your Baron is mostly no good idea). But as the game goes on, the probability decreases drawing an Estate with Baron. In the middle game Baron is most of the time no good card, but later in the game it can you net another point and gives you a +Buy too. If you're going to trash your Estates, don't buy a Baron and if you have a deck that can guarantee an Estate in every hand, like multiple Hunting Parties, Baron can very powerful. So, Baron is very situational and a rank in the middle of the $4 cards seems deserved. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/quarry.jpg) | #24 Quarry (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 23.42 / Median: 24 / Mode: 24 / Standard Deviation: 7.5 Highest Rank(s): #5 (1x), #8 (1x), #11 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #33 (2x), #37 (1x) Quarry has only a 0.19 point lead too. With rank #24 and the same Median and Mode, there is no doubt here. The unweighted average is worse than Baron's. So Quarry might be underrated by newer players. Quarry is very situational too. For action cards, this is basically a Gold you can pick up in the opening turns. So if you want many action cards and have additional buys too, Quarry is your card to go for, for example with Goons. But in the later game when you picking up victory cards, you wish this weren't only a Copper. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/workersvillage.jpg) | #23 Worker's Village (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 21.23 / Median: 19.5 / Mode: 24 / Standard Deviation: 6.6 Highest Rank(s): #10 (1x), #11 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #29 (2x), #30 (1x), #37 (1x) With Worker's Village we have a card with low deviation for a middle-ranked card. It was only one time below #30, but has on the other side no one-digit rank. And compared to the cards before, it has a really high Medium. If you build an action engine, you need villages and strong terminals. But then you realize you have a strong engine producing so much money and have no +Buy. With Worker's Village you don't need an additional card for that - you have it included in your village which is great. It's also great picking up additional Peddlers in masses and with Goons where you need as many buys as you can get. But when you just need a simple village and don't plan to get more than $8 or $11 respectively, other villages for $4 are probably better. So this is the third best village out of four in your $4 list. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/spice-merchant.jpg) | #22 Spice Merchant (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 21.14 / Median: 20 / Mode: 14 / Standard Deviation: 8.9 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #10 (1x), #11 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #35 (1x), #37 (1x), #38 (1x) Spice Merchant has only a 0.09 point lead over Worker's Village, a close call. With a really big outlier on #3 and more bad rankings than Worker's Village, its higher deviation is no surprise. Spice Merchant would be #23 in the unweighted ranking. Spice Merchant is a very flexible trasher and the comparism to Moneylender is obvious. It produces less money for the cost of an additional buy. It can really shine if you want a non-terminal trasher (its option +2 cards, +1 action basically restores the hand size) and if there's no other +Buy and you really need one. It's therefore more flexible (not limited to Copper and two options to choose from) but a slower opener as it's harder to get to $5 early on. It may be still useful later on, but it can lead to very hard decisions if you really want to trash that Silver. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/farming-village.jpg) | #21 Farming Village (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 20.81 / Median: 20 / Mode: 20 / Standard Deviation: 7.0 Highest Rank(s): #5 (1x), #10 (1x), #11 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #30 (1x), #31 (1x), #34 (1x) Farming Village's stats are similar to the Worker's Village ones. With a big outlier on #5 it has a slightly higher deviation. It has a slightly worse Median and a better Mode. It would be on #19 taking the unweighted average into account, so it seems overrated by newer players. Farming Village is the second best $4 Village. The additional ability of this village is always useful and a good counter in cursing games and against top-decking attacks like Rabble. And later in the game where you are heavily greening its additional ability is very useful too. You may even pick it up if you don't necessarily need the actions and just want to have its filter ability. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/island.jpg) | #20 Island (Seaside) Weighted Average: 20.24 / Median: 21 / Mode: 21 / Standard Deviation: 8.5 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #5 (1x), #10 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (1x), #34 (1x), #35 (1x) Island has two really high outliers, one even being second. Both the Median and the Mode are lower than Farming Village. Island does pseudo-trashing with the addition of giving additional points. So you can use it for pseudo-trashing the Estates without losing the points and later in the game you can pick it up and take your Provinces out of your deck. It can really be great with Silk Road on the board. It is rarely a game-changer, but can be a nice addition to some decks to keep them clean. And even in cursing games with no trashers, you can take Curses out of your deck for a total net of +1 point. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/miningvillage.jpg) | #19 Mining Village (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 20.11 / Median: 20 / Mode: 26 / Standard Deviation: 7.0 Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #7 (1x), #9 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #28 (3x), #33 (1x), #34 (1x) Another close call for Mining Village: Only 0.13 point-lead over Island. Comparing this Village with the stats of the last ones, it has clearly higher ranks with 3 times in the Top 10 and similar ranks in the lower regions. It also has the same deviation range as the other Villages. Mining Village is a normal Village with a one-shot Silver possibility. If you need a Village you can use that one-shot self-trashing option later in the game when you give up your engine and fully commit on going green or have bad luck late in the game and only hit $6 or $7. And even if you doesn't have a engine and are going basically big money, you can buy this in the mid-game when you miss $6 for a Gold and don't want another Silver in your deck, because this still gives you the additional card and the $2 of a Silver. And if you have enough money and no additional buy you can save the one-shot Silver for later. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/throneroom.jpg) | #18 Throne Room (Base) Weighted Average: 18.72 / Median: 15.5 / Mode: 27 / Standard Deviation: 9.1 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #6 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #32 (1x), #35 (1x), #36 (1x) A tiny jump to the next two interesting cards. Throne Room has a clearly higher Median with a higher deviation. The high Median shows, that when it got a low ranking, it got a really low ranking. I was curious how Throne Room was going to perform as Throne Room for itself basically does nothing and is highly dependant on the other cards on the board. It can be so strong, especially with strong attacks and with card drawers too. But nothing is more depressing than drawing Throne Room with no other action card. So you need a high action density and hope to draw it with that card you really want to double. You can also use it as a pseudo-village if there's no-one available and really need one, if you double a cantrip. Throne Room can really be a game-changer, especially if you have the luck and draw it with the right cards. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/conspirator.jpg) | #17 Conspirator (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 18.34 / Median: 18.5 / Mode: 24 / Standard Deviation: 7.6 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #5 (1x), #7 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #26 (1x), #27 (1x), #33 (1x) Here's the first card that got first and least once. Its Median is clearly worse than Throne Room's Median, but nearer to its actual ranking. Conspirator is so strong, but heavily depends on supporting cards that have to be non-terminal. Duration cards also help to activate Conspirator, but cheap action cards like Wishing Well, Pearl Diver or Hamlet that you can pick up in masses, especially with additional buys are great with Conspirator. You want thin decks with high action density. With that big support, this is a Grand Market just without the additional buy. In all other cases, you have to skip over Conspirator, because it's just a terminal Silver then. |
A small quibble on the Conspirator paragraph - duration cards played the previous turn actually don't help activate it.
I find the comparison between villages interesting. My personal rating would beI agree. Farming Village is way overrated in this list, imo. Worker's is just so much more useful offering a +buy, which is a crucial part of any engine which utilizes villages.
Mining>Worker's>Farming>Walled
Baron at 25 seems VERY low. Baron is a great card. I probably overrated it in my list, but it's a very powerful opener that has some very solid mid and late game potential.I had Baron that low (though it probably should be a bit higher -- like low 20s). I don't think it's a generally good opener. It's got a good chance of hitting the first time and getting you a gold or forge, but then it can get progressively less likely to hit, turning it into kind of dead weight. It's a good opener when there is something like lab to keep hand size big enough to keep hitting, or if you suspect the game will be really short (i.e. 4-player), or if you really need the +buy early. Otherwise there are a lot of better openers.
But nothing is more depressing than drawing Throne Room with no other action card.
This list is very interesting while looking at mine. I'd say I've overrated a lot of cards, but it's more accurate to say I underrated a good number. In particular, Horse Traders, Monument, Smithy and Envoy, which seem to be shoving everything else up a good 2-4 places. I was also baffled that I placed Mining Village at #10... I know why I did it (because total accuracy is hard, and I kinda just scanned down and found Bridge and probably went 'Mining Village or Bridge... eh, Bridge is often a trap so they're certainly about the same. Above Bridge' and that was it) but still... it's definitely a good 5-10 places too high.Silk Road is generally better than Gardens...
As for Silk Road being where it was while Gardens is so much higher... WHY? Gardens is generally better, but by that much of an edge? I doubt it.
As for Silk Road being where it was while Gardens is so much higher... WHY? Gardens is generally better, but by that much of an edge? I doubt it.Silk Road is generally better than Gardens...
This list is very interesting while looking at mine. I'd say I've overrated a lot of cards, but it's more accurate to say I underrated a good number. In particular, Horse Traders, Monument, Smithy and Envoy, which seem to be shoving everything else up a good 2-4 places. I was also baffled that I placed Mining Village at #10... I know why I did it (because total accuracy is hard, and I kinda just scanned down and found Bridge and probably went 'Mining Village or Bridge... eh, Bridge is often a trap so they're certainly about the same. Above Bridge' and that was it) but still... it's definitely a good 5-10 places too high.Silk Road is generally better than Gardens...
As for Silk Road being where it was while Gardens is so much higher... WHY? Gardens is generally better, but by that much of an edge? I doubt it.
I don't really get the love for Island. It's a fine card, but it's pretty slow at clearing out your deck. And it's not worth that much.
Baron at 25 seems VERY low. Baron is a great card. I probably overrated it in my list, but it's a very powerful opener that has some very solid mid and late game potential.I had Baron that low (though it probably should be a bit higher -- like low 20s). I don't think it's a generally good opener. It's got a good chance of hitting the first time and getting you a gold or forge, but then it can get progressively less likely to hit, turning it into kind of dead weight. It's a good opener when there is something like lab to keep hand size big enough to keep hitting, or if you suspect the game will be really short (i.e. 4-player), or if you really need the +buy early. Otherwise there are a lot of better openers.
Disagree. Island isn't so slow. Island is one of the best openers, I think. I play Island very well and I win often with it (mainly when I buy more than 3 !). In a 4/4 province split, Island make the difference. Second best 4$ card for me.
Disagree. Island isn't so slow. Island is one of the best openers, I think. I play Island very well and I win often with it (mainly when I buy more than 3 !). In a 4/4 province split, Island make the difference. Second best 4$ card for me.
The problem with starting Island is that it does not give money. Starting Island/Silver it's quite hard to come to $5 early. If that nevertheless happens, you are in a good position, when you get $4 for 2 times, what do you do? Buying more Islands keep you away from the $5 for even longer.
So now, if there are no great $5s that might be not such a huge problem, but more often I think it's important to get these $5s (or keep your opponent away from them). And there are better cards for this task at the $4 level.
That said I have a positive effect with and a negative effect without Island, while gaining them at 75% of the games. It's not a bad card, but I wouldn't rank it at #2.
But with Island you spend 1 buy and 2 turns on getting rid of one single card. That's really slow. I do think Island is a very good card, but it's a medicore opening (in the presence of faster options at least). However, you need to pay attention to what your opponent's doing, because even though you might be faster without Islands, you reallly don't want a 2:6 Islands split.Disagree. Island isn't so slow. Island is one of the best openers, I think. I play Island very well and I win often with it (mainly when I buy more than 3 !). In a 4/4 province split, Island make the difference. Second best 4$ card for me.
The problem with starting Island is that it does not give money. Starting Island/Silver it's quite hard to come to $5 early. If that nevertheless happens, you are in a good position, when you get $4 for 2 times, what do you do? Buying more Islands keep you away from the $5 for even longer.
So now, if there are no great $5s that might be not such a huge problem, but more often I think it's important to get these $5s (or keep your opponent away from them). And there are better cards for this task at the $4 level.
That said I have a positive effect with and a negative effect without Island, while gaining them at 75% of the games. It's not a bad card, but I wouldn't rank it at #2.
Ambassador does not give money, but it's a strong opener. I think they work in the same way, but I prefer Island.
Ambassador does not give money, but it's a strong opener. I think they work in the same way, but I prefer Island.
Ambassador does not give money, but it's a strong opener. I think they work in the same way, but I prefer Island.
Ambassador can remove more than 1 card at a time when played and puts a card into your opponent's deck. I don't think they work in the same way.
I said they work in the same way because, when you open with it, you have a mediocre turn 3/4. But at same time you are preparing something (with amb you slow down your opponent, and with island you have a VP advantage).
The VP advantage is really, really helpful. Island seems slow, but in a 4/4 province split, the Island player will win.
However, generally you have to take Island early. At the middle-end of the game it's essentially 2 VP for 4$
This list is very interesting while looking at mine. I'd say I've overrated a lot of cards, but it's more accurate to say I underrated a good number. In particular, Horse Traders, Monument, Smithy and Envoy, which seem to be shoving everything else up a good 2-4 places. I was also baffled that I placed Mining Village at #10... I know why I did it (because total accuracy is hard, and I kinda just scanned down and found Bridge and probably went 'Mining Village or Bridge... eh, Bridge is often a trap so they're certainly about the same. Above Bridge' and that was it) but still... it's definitely a good 5-10 places too high.Silk Road is generally better than Gardens...
As for Silk Road being where it was while Gardens is so much higher... WHY? Gardens is generally better, but by that much of an edge? I doubt it.
I've read your article, but I'm still not convinced. I agree that I've underrated it as it came out and your article showed me how to play better with Silk Road on the board. But: Silk Road Rushes are still very board-dependant for me and it's easier to get Gardens to 3-4 points each than Silk Road most of the times. So, can you explain me what leads you to that statement?Because a)silk road rushes really aren't harder than gardens rushes, so they're not really any more board-dependent than gardens rushes are, and, more importantly, b) it's much easier to get 3 point SR than gardens, 4 point SR than gardens, and... 5+ SR than gardens.
The other real shock for me is that horse traders made it into the top third. Really? A reaction card that's basically only good against handsize reduction (and is basically otherwise just a woodcutter)? Everyone hated on the reactions for the $2 cards, and somehow horse traders is a good $4? Seems really inconsistent...
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/smithy.jpg) | #16 Smithy (Base) Weighted Average: 16.63 / Median: 16.5 / Mode: 22 / Standard Deviation: 6.6 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #7 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #24 (1x), #29 (1x), #31 (1x) After a 1.7 point gap, we're reaching the top third. It was 5 times in the Top 10, but has still many ranks in the Twenties (it was #22 5 times). Nevertheless the deviation is pretty low. This is maybe the simplest card when you're learning Dominion. It has so few text, but is yet very powerful. It introduced us to the card drawing mechanism, the key card for Big Money engines. In the base set Double-Smithy was still good, but the value dropped down. BM-Smithy is still the way to go on many boards, and if you need a card drawer for a good working engine, Smithy is still a good pick. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/gardens.jpg) | #15 Gardens (Base) Weighted Average: 15.83 / Median: 16.5 / Mode: 18 / Standard Deviation: 9.2 Highest Rank(s): #2 (2x), #4 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (1x), #34 (1x), #35 (1x) Again, an alternative victory card has a high deviation. It has some really high ranks, being second twice and 11 times in the Top 10. But other players seem to rank it way lower. It's very difficult. Gardens is another card from the base set, introduced us to alternative victory cards. The Gardens rush is still a very good strategy on many boards and in Hinterlands there are more supporting cards for it, so it gained a little more power recently. Gardens is with non-trashing boards easily worth a Duchy and can be worth even more with good supporters like Workshop or Ironworks. It gets even better in cursing games where 3-piling gets faster and is harder to get to $8. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/horse-traders.jpg) | #14 Horse Traders (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 15.57 / Median: 15 / Mode: 16 / Standard Deviation: 8.7 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (1x), #3 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #29 (1x), #32 (1x), #33 (1x) Here we have the second card which got a first rank. But this time it's no real outlier, there are several second and third places following and it ranks 8 times in the Top 10. With the unweighted average Horse Traders would even be #12, maybe it's overrated by newer players. Horse Traders is (beside of Watchtower) the only Reaction card that is useful on many boards. Yes, it is still situational, but the situations occur very often. It's geat against discarding attacks, restoring the hand size - especially against Minion for a hand of 6 cards. Especially with weak attacks this card is good, because Horse Traders hurts more than the benefit of playing a weak attack. But, the action part is very useful too. It's useful in decks full of green cards and curses, so it's a good supporting card for Gardens or Silk Road rushes. And it's a good addition to Hunting Party, a good starter for getting $5 early or early Grand Markets and so on... many possibilities. As there are still situations, this card is skippable, it don't climb the rank ladder higher and may have led many players to rank it way lower. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bridge.jpg) | #13 Bridge (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 15.26 / Median: 13 / Mode: 17 / Standard Deviation: 7.6 Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #5 (1x), #6 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #29 (1x), #34 (1x) Bridge hasn't such high rankings as Horse Traders, but is more often in the Top 10: 11 times. It is also only 7 times #20 or lower. Bridge is a very nice card. If you buy only one card, it's not more than a terminal Silver. If you use both buys, it's a terminal Gold, but still not so exciting. But its power rises the more you can play in one turn. With 2 Bridges and you use all 3 buys, they are worth $8, so $4 per Bridge. Its value increases quadratically. With n Bridges you have nČ+2n coins if you use every buy. So if you manage to play 7 Bridges and an additional copper, you can buy all 8 Provinces in one turn. The problem is still how to do that. You need enough actions and/or enough drawing power. You definitely need supporters. With a 5-card hand of 2 King's Courts and 3 Bridges, you can accomplish this easily. But also other cards like Tactician and Native Village are great supporters. If there aren't good supporters for 3-piling or mega-turning, Bridge is a trap card for being a terminal Gold in best case. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/envoy.jpg) | #12 Envoy (Promo) Weighted Average: 14.44 / Median: 11.5 / Mode: 6 / Standard Deviation: 10.6 Highest Rank(s): #1 (2x), #2 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (1x), #41 (1x), #42 (1x) This is the card with the highest deviation. It's the first card ranking first twice, but also got 2 big outliers (third and second last). With such a wide range, it's difficult to find a good mode, it got #6 4 times. The unweighted average lists Envoy as #10, newer players seem to overrate it. Envoy is maybe THE Big Money card. In a deck full of silver and an Envoy in hand, you're almost guaranteed a Province. In a Envoy Big Money deck you don't necessarily need Gold, as it will get discarded from your opponent either way. Smithy is #16 and draws 3 cards, of course this is stronger in BM games for drawing 4 cards. In engine games this is usually worse, as your opponent will discard your key card. But if you have a deck with a density of high quality, Envoy can be a very good addition too as you may draw the discarded card later again if you can draw your whole deck. I can understand a high deviation, as engine builders seem to rank against BM players, but it seems too, that personal preference played a role in ranking this card rather than real strength, otherwise I cannot explain a range from best to second worst (and still being #12 in the end). |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/salvager.jpg) | #11 Salvager (Seaside) Weighted Average: 13.76 / Median: 12 / Mode: 5 / Standard Deviation: 9.4 Highest Rank(s): #4 (2x), #5 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (1x), #33 (1x), #38 (1x) Salvager is another card with high deviation and even a higher mode. The Median is lower than Envoy's and the unweighted average lists Salvager at #13. It got lower than #20 7 times. Salvager is one of the best trash-for-benefit cards. It's not that a great starter, but still a good card to pick up early. Later in the game you generally want to trash your best card, so you can trash a Gold for an easy Province, maybe even for a double Province. Then you have a significant lead and can salvage your Province for another one, accelerating the game, so that your opponent can't come back. So Salvager is one of the first cards in this list, that is useful on most boards. Personally I don't understand the high deviation, but it seems that newer players underrate its power, perhaps not knowing how to play it correctly. Even as a mediocre opener Salvager / Ambassador is in the Top 100 of all openings on #96. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/monument.jpg) | #10 Monument (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 13.00 / Median: 12.5 / Mode: 12 / Standard Deviation: 7.7 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #5 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #26 (2x), #28 (1x), #33 (1x) Now we're in the Top 10 and the deviation slowly normalizes. Monument's stats are very consistent, but there are still some very low ranks inbetween. It got also 7 times lower than #20. You want to pick up Monument early in the game, because the more you play it, the more it's worth it. It's good in quick games without good additional buys, where it can help you to force your opponent to a 5/3 Province split to win the game. And it's good in decks where you can guarantee to play your Monument regularly. Monument is the #21 best opening. So one Monument is a great addition to a Hunting Party deck. Monument is also the only infinite VP generating card in the game. With a 5 card hand of 2 King's Courts and 3 Monument you are guaranteed 9 VP per turn. But as it is terminal and when there are very good attacks on the board, then you have to ignore it. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/moneylender.jpg) | #9 Moneylender (Base) Weighted Average: 12.89 / Median: 12.5 / Mode: 14 / Standard Deviation: 6.8 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #4 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #22 (1x), #29 (2x) Moneylender is another card that got at least #1 once, so there are only 25 #1 remaining. With only 0.11 point better than Monument, it was a close call. The deviation still decreases. Being only 4 times below #20 proves that. Moneylender is another card that falls into the category "Great opener, bad afterwards". But you all still agree with relatively high consensus that is a very important card to look at. It's like a Silver but with the trash ability at the same time. Like said earlier, the comparism to Spice Merchant is obvious. Moneylender is a much better opener with the deficit of not being so flexible later in the game. You mostly only want one of it (maybe only on Mountebank boards you would maybe buy a second), but this one can really fasten the game. Moneylender / Ambassador is the #102 best opening. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/militia.jpg) | #8 Militia (Base) Weighted Average: 10.73 / Median: 10 / Mode: 10 / Standard Deviation: 5.8 Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #5 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #23 (1x), #24 (2x) Basically we don't have to talk about a Top 10, instead let's talk about a Top 8 after this big 2.2 point gap. Militia now really has a low deviation. It never was in the Top 3, but there are only 13 lists ranking it lower than #10 with only 5 outliers ranking it lower than #15. Militia is another card from the base set and it's the second best. Discarding attacks are really annoying and can really hurt some decks. It's great against decks with trashers as the opponent mostly has to choose between buying a good card and discarding the trasher or trash 1-2 cards and buy nothing. Militia is also a good opener as it is also a terminal silver and stops your opponent getting to $5 or $6 early. And if you can play it each turn, this is great. So Militia / Chapel is the #56 best opening. You can combo this with Council Room / Governor and your opponent doesn't get the benefit of the additional card, or play Militia and Masquerade afterwards what could really hurt. But there situations when Militia isn't that strong, especially if there are cursers on the board, or if there are effective counters like Watchtower, Horse Traders, Library, Jack of All Trades or Menagerie on the board. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/caravan.jpg) | #7 Caravan (Seaside) Weighted Average: 10.29 / Median: 9 / Mode: 9 / Standard Deviation: 5.5 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #3 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #19 (2x), #22 (1x), #25 (1x) Caravan has even a lower deviation than Militia, so it got only below #15 4 times and 13 times below #10 too. Caravan is the worse Laboratory, because it has a delayed benefit and can miss the reshuffle and therefore you cannot play it that often. But still a bigger hand size from a nonterminal card is great. Only Big Money decks don't necessarily profit from it, so almost all decks can need a Caravan. Getting all Caravans is still not key to win the game, but if you get them quick (e.g. from Talisman or Ironworks), this can really make a huge difference. So this is almost a must-buy for all good engines. Caravan / Ambassador is the #7 best opening and Caravan / Masquerade on #64. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bishop.jpg) | #6 Bishop (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 10.21 / Median: 10 / Mode: 8 / Standard Deviation: 5.3 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #4 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #17 (1x), #23 (1x), #25 (1x) Bishop has has the lowest deviation spot in the top ranks for now. It was close, only 0.08 points seperate Bishop from Caravan. It has at least one first place and it got 4 times below #15 and 14 times below #10. Bishop is a good opener too, as it can trash your cards for the benefit of early VPs. So a trashed Estate nets you already 1 point more without having it in your deck. You can also buy Duchies and trash them for the same VP or Provinces for one point less, but they aren't in your deck anymore which is great. In other scenarios you can trash a Gold late for additional 4VP. There is also a strategy called "Golden Deck" where you trash down to 4 cards (Bishop and 3 Treasures which give at least $7), buy a Province and trash it in the next turn, buying the next province, etc. what gives you 5 VP per turn guaranteed. But take into account the benefit your opponent gets. Often it makes more sense to skip Bishop if your opponent opened Bishop. Then you can trash for free and build a better engine than your opponent. As said above, discarding attacks like Militia really hurt Bishop too. Bishop / Ambassador is #93 in the opening list. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/young-witch.jpg) | #5 Young Witch (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 9.18 / Median: 5 / Mode: 5 / Standard Deviation: 10.1 Highest Rank(s): #2 (2x), #3 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (1x), #34 (1x), #37 (1x) Here is now inbetween another card with really high deviation, especially for a high ranked card. There is no vote between #10 and #19, so this either got really high ranks or really low ones. Young Witch is only #7 in the unweighted ranking. Wow, that high deviation was really a surprise for me. Young Witch is a curser which generally is very strong and only costs $4, so this has to be huge! But you are guaranteed that there's a Moat-like bane card in the setup. If you would have bought this card either way, YW is mostly not worth it and skippable, especially if the bane is Lighthouse (it defends now in hand and in play) or Scheme (just return it again and again). In all other cases YW is very strong as a curser and has still the draw-and-discard filter advantage. This leads to one of the most-fun synergies: Young Witch and Tunnel. Giving out curses and getting Gold at the same time is great. Young Witch / Tunnel is #18 on the opening list. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/remake.jpg) | #4 Remake (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 7.82 / Median: 6 / Mode: 2 / Standard Deviation: 9.4 Highest Rank(s): #2 (6x) / Lowest Rank(s): #23 (2x), #34 (1x), #37 (1x) Another one from Cornucopia, and another one with high deviation. The most voted place is also the top position. It failed 6 times to get first. It got 6 times below #15 with 2 really big outliers. With Moneylender the consensus on a "good opener, but bad afterwards" was really high. Here it comes back to normal. If you compare Remake to Chapel, it can only trash 2 cards at a time but at the same time let you get 3 Silvers in your deck. And if there are good $2 cards on the board, you can buy a good card for the last two Copper in your hand too. Remake is maybe after Chapel the fastest opening trasher in the game. You can get high quality decks really fast. Later it gets nearly as useless as Chapel, but at that time this doesn't bother you too much. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/tournament.jpg) | #3 Tournament (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 6.48 / Median: 4.5 / Mode: 4 / Standard Deviation: 5.8 Highest Rank(s): #1 (2x), #2 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #15 (5x), #16 (1x), #22 (1x) The third one from Cornucopia in a row. But the consensus is back to normal for such a high ranked card. It has two first places, 8 fourth places and ... wow 5 times on #15. Many hate Treasure Map for being so luck-based. Tournament is also very luck-based as you have to pair a Province and a Tournament. If you manage to do that you get one of 5 prices that are so strong that Donald X. didn't want to realize these ideas as "normal" cards. So, Tournament is in fact a very good card. I will not go in detail into the prizes, but how do you manage to get a Tournament and Province in hand? It's the same as with Treasure Map. Either trash down to few cards (e.g. Chapel), get a big hand size (e.g. Tactician), or cycle through your deck with sifters (e.g. Warehouse). Also there is the possibility to spam Tournaments which are at least nonterminal and good cards for themselves - at least until your opponent gets Provinces. It's not surprising that Tournament has 3 spots in the Top 10 openings with Ambassador (#3), Chapel (#5) and Masquerade (#8) |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/seahag.jpg) | #2 Sea Hag (Seaside) Weighted Average: 3.77 / Median: 2 / Mode: 2 / Standard Deviation: 7.3 Highest Rank(s): #1 (7x), #2 (9x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (1x), #24 (1x), #35 (1x) We make the last jump to the Top 2. With a lead of 2.7 points over Tournament, the next card is Sea Hag. Again the deviation rises which is surprising for a #2 card. Yes, it has 2 really big outliers, but the consensus was generally high with 7 players ranking it first, half of the players ranking it in the Top 2 and only 7 players ranking it not in the Top 4. Sea Hag is the next $4 curser. It has a big first-player advantage as you may discard your opponents Sea Hag in turn 3 and because the curse goes on top of the deck. This hurts your opponent even more than all other cursers in the game. At least if he hasn't any good counter, like trashing from top of the deck, like Lookout does. Sea Hag / Lookout is also the #29 best opening (and many other good SH openings between #50 and #100 still to come). The biggest problem of Sea Hag is: it hurts your oppenent more, but it doesn't give you any benefit (like most of the other attacks do). So every Sea Hag is later a dead Sea Hag if the Curse pile is empty (and is basically a Curse for itself too). And don't forget to build up your economy as Sea Hag don't help you now to accomplish this. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/jack-of-all-trades.jpg) | #1 Jack of all Trades (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 2.62 / Median: 1.5 / Mode: 1 / Standard Deviation: 3.0 Highest Rank(s): #1 (15x) / Lowest Rank(s): #8 (1x), #9 (1x), #14 (1x) This is the best $4 card. Exactly the half of all players voted it on the top rank. It has the second least deviation of all $4 cards. So no discussion here. Nobody saw that coming when Hinterlands came out. JoaT seems so weak, but it isn't. It seems he does nothing good, he's slowing in trashing, draws few cards and let you get a Silver and has a Spy effect. But it is so strong because it's a very good counter against nearly all attacks. Just buy 2 JoaT and you can skip the cursing attack while you're going for Big Money. Yes, it's boring, but effective. It's weaker in Colony games because of the Silver and there are still situations where a thin deck with an obvious engine or a rush is stronger, but if you feel unsure, JoaT is always a good buy, if you stick to it. It combos bad with nearly all other cards. The opening list proves that. Only Fishing Village and Chapel are better openings paired with JoaT than just Silver. |
Moneylender is great, I often open with it. But, IMO, Spice merchant is strictly better. Why ? Because a laboratory is better than a terminal gold. Also, you may also choose the woodcutter effect. And you may trash a treasure other than copper, it's useful with loan, but even with silver if you need the +buy... Spice merchant is terribly underrated, really, and more often useful than Moneylender. #22 is too low. It should be at least in the top 10.
Wow, lots to say (and holy heck lots of really wacky individual rankings) since I didn't chime in on the middle cards yet. Guess I'll start at the top:
...
Moneylender is great, I often open with it. But, IMO, Spice merchant is strictly better. Why ? Because a laboratory is better than a terminal gold. Also, you may also choose the woodcutter effect. And you may trash a treasure other than copper, it's useful with loan, but even with silver if you need the +buy... Spice merchant is terribly underrated, really, and more often useful than Moneylender. #22 is too low. It should be at least in the top 10.
Moneylender is better at getting to $5 and $6 in the early game, which is very often crucial. Spice Merchant is better at keeping your engine oiled once you've built it up a little bit. Lab normally > Gold, but only after you have a Gold to draw in the first place. I agree that #22 is certainly too low, but top 10 would be too high. I had them both in the 13 to 15 range, and think there's not much separating the two.
Wow, checking my list, I've seen how much I learn between when I sent my list and now. Now, I totally disagree about my 4$ card list.The fact that coppers can't be transformed into another card is a feature, not a bug.
I mainly underrated :
- Remake : The biggest mistake for me. My point of view about remake was a "worse remodel", since you should have 2 cards to trash, and coppers can't be transformed into another card. Now, I really understood this card and I buy it very often.
Moneylender is better at getting to $5 and $6 in the early game, which is very often crucial. Spice Merchant is better at keeping your engine oiled once you've built it up a little bit. Lab normally > Gold, but only after you have a Gold to draw in the first place. I agree that #22 is certainly too low, but top 10 would be too high. I had them both in the 13 to 15 range, and think there's not much separating the two.When I first played with Spice Merchant, I thought it was a vast improvement over Moneylender. Trash a Copper and then choose whether you want a Laboratory or a Woodcutter? Great! But the more I play with it, the more I prefer Moneylender.
Wow, lots to say (and holy heck lots of really wacky individual rankings) since I didn't chime in on the middle cards yet. Guess I'll start at the top:
...
I TOTALLY agree with you (except for gardens/silk road).
"The hell" who put Remake at #37 was me, but, like I said I completely changed my opinion. If I "remake" my list now, I would put it probably at #5 or #6 :oMoneylender is great, I often open with it. But, IMO, Spice merchant is strictly better. Why ? Because a laboratory is better than a terminal gold. Also, you may also choose the woodcutter effect. And you may trash a treasure other than copper, it's useful with loan, but even with silver if you need the +buy... Spice merchant is terribly underrated, really, and more often useful than Moneylender. #22 is too low. It should be at least in the top 10.
Moneylender is better at getting to $5 and $6 in the early game, which is very often crucial. Spice Merchant is better at keeping your engine oiled once you've built it up a little bit. Lab normally > Gold, but only after you have a Gold to draw in the first place. I agree that #22 is certainly too low, but top 10 would be too high. I had them both in the 13 to 15 range, and think there's not much separating the two.
It's true, probably Moneylender is better as an opener. Nevertheless, in the absence of trash-for-benefit, and/or when there are good 3-4$ terminal cards, I would take Spice merchant over moneylender.
Spice merchant is a cantrip (for the lab effect), so I prefer open Spice merchant / Masquerade, rather than Moneylender/Masquerade (two terminal actions). Council room think same.
But as [Monument] is terminal and when there are very good attacks on the board, then you have to ignore it.I don't think this is true. Monument is actually pretty good when attacks are around, because the game is slower, letting you play it more.
Moneylender is another card that falls into the category "Great opener, bad afterwards".I think Moneylender is an "OK" opening, and far from "great". Trashing coppers 1 at a time is nice sometimes, but far from great.
[Jack] combos bad with nearly all other cards. The opening list proves that. Only Fishing Village and Chapel are better openings paired with JoaT than just Silver.The opening list not only does not prove that, it doesn't even suggest it. Jack/Silver is a good opening, but that doesn't mean it pairs poorly with other cards. There are plenty of positive openings that, while they may not score as well as silver, can be good depending on the transition. Plus the list of openings says nothing about cards added later on.
I admit it's somewhat hypocritical to like Salvager as an opening and rank it especially high while disliking Baron primarily for much the same swinginess, oh well.For me the problem is not in the first draw, it occurs as the game goes on. You'll usually have something to salvage, as later in the game you want to salvage big stuff. but Baron specifically needs estates, which grow increasingly rare.
Councilroom.com shows that HT/Silver is actually a level 0 (http://councilroom.com/openings?card=Horse+Traders) opening, and that the win rate when purchasing a Horse Traders is sub-1.0 (http://councilroom.com/win_weighted_accum_turn.html?cards=horse%20traders) on all turns.
5.737 ± 20.714 Horse Traders / Silver / Lighthouse 4/3/2
Councilroom.com shows that HT/Silver is actually a level 0 (http://councilroom.com/openings?card=Horse+Traders) opening, and that the win rate when purchasing a Horse Traders is sub-1.0 (http://councilroom.com/win_weighted_accum_turn.html?cards=horse%20traders) on all turns.Code: [Select]5.737 ± 20.714 Horse Traders / Silver / Lighthouse 4/3/2
How did this happen?
edit: Forgot the SOPA-plugin...
They're Player 2, and Player 1 bought a Noble Brigand on Turn 1. Easy.
As I said before, I didn't write down or save my rankings, but I think I may have been the person who gave Young Witch its 37. It's by far the curser I am most likely to skip. On boards with no + actions where the bane card is any kind of cantrip (which for 2 - 3 is a lot of the time) I often find it more useful to buy a couple banes than one young Witch. A terminal cellar that occasionally gives a curse? Pass.