(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/71/Adventurer.jpg/200px-Adventurer.jpg) | #22 =0 Adventurer (Base) Weighted Average: 2.2% ▼2.5pp / Unweighted Average: 3.8% / Median: 0% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 8.4% Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/ea/Farmland.jpg/200px-Farmland.jpg) | #21 =0 Farmland (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 13.5% ▼3.5pp / Unweighted Average: 14.9% / Median: 9.5% ▼3.8pp / Standard Deviation: 12.9% Farmland lost over 3pp, but is still second to last. It has the third lowest deviation. It was voted last 4 times and 3 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/9d/Harem.jpg/200px-Harem.jpg) | #20 ▼1 Harem (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 16.6% ▼12.5pp / Unweighted Average: 20.1% / Median: 14.3% ▼12.4pp / Standard Deviation: 16.9% Harem is only one rank lower, but over 12pp worse, that's a lot. It was voted last 5 times and 7 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/78/Bank.jpg/200px-Bank.jpg) | #19 ▼2 Bank (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 30.1% ▼10.6pp / Unweighted Average: 32.3% / Median: 26.3% ▼13.7pp / Standard Deviation: 22.4% We're making a jump of over 13pp and Bank lost 2 ranks and also over 10pp, nearly as much as Harem. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last 7 times and 18 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/dc/Expand.jpg/200px-Expand.jpg) | #18 ▲2 Expand (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 30.7% ▲7.7pp / Unweighted Average: 30.0% / Median: 23.8% ▲3.8pp / Standard Deviation: 21.8% Expand is 2 ranks higher and nearly 8pp better. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted first once and 13 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/ea/Prince.jpg/200px-Prince.jpg) | #17 Prince (Promo) Weighted Average: 37.1% / Unweighted Average: 41.7% / Median: 42.9% / Standard Deviation: 23.0% Prince is the first new card in this list. It would be 2 ranks higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 10 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d7/Forge.jpg/200px-Forge.jpg) | #16 ▲1 Forge (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 37.6% ▲0.2pp / Unweighted Average: 38.0% / Median: 35.0% ▲1.7pp / Standard Deviation: 21.8% Forge has basically the same average value, but is one rank higher. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 9 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d1/Hoard.jpg/200px-Hoard.jpg) | #15 ▼1 Hoard (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 38.1% ▼12.1pp / Unweighted Average: 41.0% / Median: 33.3% ▼13.4pp / Standard Deviation: 23.3% Hoard loses one rank and also a lot in its average value: over 12pp. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It has the third highest deviation. It was voted first once and 17 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/99/Training.jpg/320px-Training.jpg) | #14 Training (Adventures) Weighted Average: 43.6% / Unweighted Average: 44.3% / Median: 38.1% / Standard Deviation: 23.3% Training is the first Adventures card. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It has the fourth highest deviation in this list. It was voted first and last each twice and 13 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Fairgrounds.jpg/200px-Fairgrounds.jpg) | #13 ▼1 Fairgrounds (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 46.6% ▼5.2pp / Unweighted Average: 42.8% / Median: 40.0% ▼6.7pp / Standard Deviation: 25.4% Fairgrounds is one rank lower and over 5pp worse. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It has the second highest deviation in this list. It was voted last 3 times, first once and 13 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b6/Nobles.jpg/200px-Nobles.jpg) | #12 ▼2 Nobles (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 50.0% ▼3.9pp / Unweighted Average: 49.0% / Median: 47.6% ▼5.7pp / Standard Deviation: 22.0% Nobles is exactly on the 50% mark. It's 2 ranks lower and nearly 4pp worse. It was voted last once and first twice. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Peddler.jpg/200px-Peddler.jpg) | #11 =0 Peddler (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 51.6% ▼1.0pp / Unweighted Average: 51.8% / Median: 50.0% ▼3.3pp / Standard Deviation: 20.7% Peddler is slightly worse, but stays on the same rank. It was voted last 3 times and 12 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b3/Altar.jpg/200px-Altar.jpg) | #10 ▼1 Altar (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 58.3% ▲3.5pp / Unweighted Average: 54.3% / Median: 56.3% ▲3.0pp / Standard Deviation: 19.0% Altar is one rank worse, but over 3pp better. It was voted 11 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/0/02/Inheritance.jpg/320px-Inheritance.jpg) | #9 Inheritance (Adventures) Weighted Average: 59.4% / Unweighted Average: 58.3% / Median: 61.9% / Standard Deviation: 21.7% Inheritance is the second Adventures card and the second event in this list. It was voted 9 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Hunting_Grounds.jpg/200px-Hunting_Grounds.jpg) | #8 ▲5 Hunting Grounds (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 60.2% ▲11.0pp / Unweighted Average: 58.6% / Median: 60.0% ▲6.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.2% Hunting Grounds made the biggest change in this list: 5 ranks and 11pp better. It was voted first twice and 6 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/91/Hireling.jpg/200px-Hireling.jpg) | #7 Hireling (Adventures) Weighted Average: 61.5% / Unweighted Average: 65.5% / Median: 66.7% / Standard Deviation: 20.0% Hireling is the only actual card from Adventures for this list. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted first twice and 4 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/28/Pathfinding.jpg/320px-Pathfinding.jpg) | #6 Pathfinding (Adventures) Weighted Average: 66.0% / Unweighted Average: 64.7% / Median: 71.4% / Standard Deviation: 26.9% Pathfinding is the second best event in this list. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It has the highest deviation in this list. It was voted first 4 times and 11 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/dd/Border_Village.jpg/200px-Border_Village.jpg) | #5 =0 Border Village (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 67.1% ▼2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 66.8% / Median: 71.4% ▼1.9pp / Standard Deviation: 19.1% Border Village is still on the same rank, but nearly 3pp worse. It was voted first 3 times and 15 times below average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/4/4b/Lost_Arts.jpg/320px-Lost_Arts.jpg) | #4 Lost Arts (Adventures) Weighted Average: 76.8% / Unweighted Average: 74.5% / Median: 81.0% / Standard Deviation: 20.3% We're making a jump of nearly 10pp and Lost Arts is the best event and best Adventures card. It was voted first 5 times and 8 times below average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/81/Grand_Market.jpg/200px-Grand_Market.jpg) | #3 =0 Grand Market (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 82.2% ▲0.6pp / Unweighted Average: 81.6% / Median: 85.7% ▼1.0pp / Standard Deviation: 13.7% Grand Market stayed where it was and has also nearly the same average value. It was voted first 6 times and twice below average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/e2/Goons.jpg/200px-Goons.jpg) | #2 =0 Goons (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 92.9% ▲1.2pp / Unweighted Average: 90.4% / Median: 94.1% ▲0.8pp / Standard Deviation: 12.4% And there is the next big jump of over 10pp. Goons stays on the second rank with a slightly better average. It has the second lowest deviation in this list. It was voted first 27 times and 3 times below average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/8d/King%27s_Court.jpg/200px-King%27s_Court.jpg) | #1 =0 King's Court (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 94.0% ▲0.8pp / Unweighted Average: 91.5% / Median: 95.2% ▼4.8pp / Standard Deviation: 13.1% King's Court is still #1 with a small lead of about 1pp. It was voted first 38 times and only once below average. |
How is Bank ranked 19th?!
1.) King's Court
2.) Goons
3.) Fairgrounds
4.) Lost Arts
5.) Border Village
6.) Grand Market
7.) Hunting Grounds
8.) Pathfinding
9.) Nobles
10.) Hireling
11.) Altar
12.) Forge
13.) Inheritance
14.) Peddler
15.) Prince
16.) Expand
17.) Training
18.) Hoard
19.) Harem
20.) Farmland
21.) Bank
22.) Adventurer
Peddler is way too high.
How is Bank ranked 19th?!
I found myself equally speechless. Also, how is Fairgrounds not in the top 10?
Bank is okay, but for $7, you usually want a game-breaking engine component. It can provide a nice payload, but most often, a deck will have trashed most of its treasures anyway, making Bank not worth as much.
Bank is okay, but for $7, you usually want a game-breaking engine component. It can provide a nice payload, but most often, a deck will have trashed most of its treasures anyway, making Bank not worth as much. Now, don't get me wrong. I've played games where Bank was worth a ton, but the 'metagame' has evolved further than just how much money can you make on a turn.Still there are not that many games with two 7 cards. Also it should be definitely be above hoard as its payload is better than generating gold once you start greening.
Bank is okay, but for $7, you usually want a game-breaking engine component. It can provide a nice payload, but most often, a deck will have trashed most of its treasures anyway, making Bank not worth as much.
Who says Bank can't fit into an engine? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12727)
And to the community: if Peddler is so good, than why is Training mediocre? It's a free Peddler per copy of the most common action card in your deck.On many (most?) boards it's easier to buy Peddlers than it is to buy any other action card; with cards like Worker's Village and Wharf, the opportunity cost of a Peddler is often zero. Peddler is fantastic with most trash-for-benefit cards. Peddler is a great target for +something tokens from Adventures. Peddler works pretty well with Throne Room and variants. Ultimately, Peddler has a significantly larger impact on the game than Training (or any of the cards in the bottom 11).
On many (most?) boards it's easier to buy Peddlers than it is to buy any other action card; with cards like Worker's Village and Wharf, the opportunity cost of a Peddler is often zero. Peddler is fantastic with most trash-for-benefit cards. Peddler is a great target for +something tokens from Adventures. Peddler works pretty well with Throne Room and variants. Ultimately, Peddler has a significantly larger impact on the game than Training (or any of the cards in the bottom 11).
These boards are quite rare. Its case mostly in boards with wharf, goons or merchant guild. Otherwise opportunity cost is quite big. In most peddler rushes you need to build engine in otherwise suboptimal fashion by neglecting draw and instead getting +buy/cantrips. Most of time one player get 7/3 peddler split and second player has lot of mostly useless components. If its board where 5/5 or 6/4 split is likely there is almost no difference vs training on village.And to the community: if Peddler is so good, than why is Training mediocre? It's a free Peddler per copy of the most common action card in your deck.On many (most?) boards it's easier to buy Peddlers than it is to buy any other action card; with cards like Worker's Village and Wharf, the opportunity cost of a Peddler is often zero.
Peddler is fantastic with most trash-for-benefit cards.
Peddler is a great target for +something tokens from Adventures.There is almost no difference, except that you could make peddler earn +2 coins with peddler, otherwise putting that token on cantrip with training is better. And peddler+buy=market square+training, peddler+action=village+training, peddler+buy+action=worker village+training.
Peddler works pretty well with Throne Room and variants.Thats false, tr-peddler gives +2 cards +2 action +2 coin. Pearl diver with training gives same and possible deck reordering, so basically everything else is better.
Ultimately, Peddler has a significantly larger impact on the game than Training (or any of the cards in the bottom 11).No, you shouldn't rate card without even thinking about it. And besides fairgrounds, nobles and probably card on 11. spot are better.
Bank is okay, but for $7, you usually want a game-breaking engine component. It can provide a nice payload, but most often, a deck will have trashed most of its treasures anyway, making Bank not worth as much.
Who says Bank can't fit into an engine? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12727)
*twitches*
Why didn't they play those last Platina and Copper before the Banks!?!?!?!?!?
Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average.
Bank is okay, but for $7, you usually want a game-breaking engine component. It can provide a nice payload, but most often, a deck will have trashed most of its treasures anyway, making Bank not worth as much.
Who says Bank can't fit into an engine? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12727)
*twitches*
Why didn't they play those last Platina and Copper before the Banks!?!?!?!?!?
The screenshot is not from Dingans perspective, but from the opponent's.
Dingan played a Ghost Ship. The three cards are those the opp kept.
I think it's because victory cards are hard to rank when comparing with action cards.How is Bank ranked 19th?!
I found myself equally speechless. Also, how is Fairgrounds not in the top 10?
Farmland could be a place or two higher. It's not game-breaker by itself, but it's self-synergy, ability to turn $6 card into a 8VP swing (albeit at the cost of not playing it) and general endgame engineering are something I see is recognized in many games Farmland appears in. I'd definitely put it above Harem, for example.
Farmland could be a place or two higher. It's not game-breaker by itself, but it's self-synergy, ability to turn $6 card into a 8VP swing (albeit at the cost of not playing it) and general endgame engineering are something I see is recognized in many games Farmland appears in. I'd definitely put it above Harem, for example.
Nobles should also be higher, IMO.
Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average.
Not even our mystery reverse voter could bare to put Adventurer above average.
I agree, there is a troll in our midst and his name is Roadrunner7671.Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average.
Not even our mystery reverse voter could bare to put Adventurer above average.
Now that you brought this up, the fact that Adventurer was never voted above average is intriguing. If there is in fact a reverse voter, then they either meant to vote Adventurer above average or didn't vote for 6+ cost cards. Alternatively, there is no reverse voter but instead a major troll in our midst.
Farmland could be a place or two higher. It's not game-breaker by itself, but it's self-synergy, ability to turn $6 card into a 8VP swing (albeit at the cost of not playing it) and general endgame engineering are something I see is recognized in many games Farmland appears in. I'd definitely put it above Harem, for example.
Nobles should also be higher, IMO.
No, farmland is without doubt second worst. Only two uses are 8vp at endgame and turning estate to 4 cost when you need engine component. Otherwise its just gimped harem as you could buy only province with it and lose 2vp versus having harem. Its just better to get some harems for vp lead and some economy.
I agree, there is a troll in our midst and his name is Roadrunner7671.Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average.
Not even our mystery reverse voter could bare to put Adventurer above average.
Now that you brought this up, the fact that Adventurer was never voted above average is intriguing. If there is in fact a reverse voter, then they either meant to vote Adventurer above average or didn't vote for 6+ cost cards. Alternatively, there is no reverse voter but instead a major troll in our midst.
No wait, I think it would be foolish to just assume there is just one troll without question. It's quite possible for multiple trolls to be conspiring together.
Since both Estate and Curse are stop cards and ignoring synergies with green cards, this has the effect of giving you 4VP for $6. So that's reasonable. Fairgrounds can already provide this fairly easily though, and often enough 6VP.Farmland could be a place or two higher. It's not game-breaker by itself, but it's self-synergy, ability to turn $6 card into a 8VP swing (albeit at the cost of not playing it) and general endgame engineering are something I see is recognized in many games Farmland appears in. I'd definitely put it above Harem, for example.
Nobles should also be higher, IMO.
No, farmland is without doubt second worst. Only two uses are 8vp at endgame and turning estate to 4 cost when you need engine component. Otherwise its just gimped harem as you could buy only province with it and lose 2vp versus having harem. Its just better to get some harems for vp lead and some economy.
You can also Farmland a Curse into a $2-cost card (there are some good ones) or even an Estate (for a 4 points total). I also put Farmland above Harem. Glad some guys are backin' me up.
BothNo wait, I think it would be foolish to just assume there is just one troll without question. It's quite possible for multiple trolls to be conspiring together.
Hmmm... do I make a meme with Conspirator, or with Wine Merchant?
*Heavy disagreeing*I agree, there is a troll in our midst and his name is Roadrunner7671.Without a doubt Adventurer is the worst card in this list again - it even lost over 2pp. It has also clearly the lowest deviation in this list. 75 votes were on the last rank, that's 3/4 of the votes. It was never voted above average.
Not even our mystery reverse voter could bare to put Adventurer above average.
Now that you brought this up, the fact that Adventurer was never voted above average is intriguing. If there is in fact a reverse voter, then they either meant to vote Adventurer above average or didn't vote for 6+ cost cards. Alternatively, there is no reverse voter but instead a major troll in our midst.
Links or it didn't happen.
Border Village isn't so good IMO.
I know, that's why I had it a little higher than I planned.Border Village isn't so good IMO.
But you can gain Scouts using it's ability.
My major disagreement with the list is Forge -- if you spike one unreasonably early it can be gg, you can build a strategy around 3 + 5 = 2 + 6 = 8, sometimes it's the only trashing and it makes up for its price with its speed, and it gives great endgame control. But it can certainly be a trap, too; Forge isn't going to get you out of your Sea Hagged misery deck that takes 17 turns to reach the next shuffle; you'll just draw it with two silvers a copper a militia and be sad.
Links or it didn't happen.
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/6/6c/Artwork_Link_ni%C3%B1o_OoT.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124232423&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/d/d8/Link_(Spirit_Tracks)_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124235022&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/e/e1/Link_Artwork_2_(The_Minish_Cap).png/revision/latest?cb=20120124213342&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/2/2e/Link_Playing_Spirit_Flute.png/revision/latest?cb=20091203231455)
I still think Goons is better than KC.
I still think Goons is better than KC.
Quite a lot of people seem to agree with you. I know I ummed and aahed over that one for quite a while. Can't even remember what I picked as first now.
Hoh! My, Boyyyy!Links or it didn't happen.
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/6/6c/Artwork_Link_ni%C3%B1o_OoT.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124232423&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/d/d8/Link_(Spirit_Tracks)_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124235022&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/e/e1/Link_Artwork_2_(The_Minish_Cap).png/revision/latest?cb=20120124213342&path-prefix=es)(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/2/2e/Link_Playing_Spirit_Flute.png/revision/latest?cb=20091203231455)
(http://www.gameswelike.com/web/pix/Zelda/cdi/Linkfacesofevil.jpg)
kc will quickly bring you to a state of heavy payloads and whatnot, goons is the best payload there is in the game, maybe other than platinum. i have goons at #1, if there's any pair that we don't need to resolve which is better, it's these two. they do different things, buy both of them.I still think Goons is better than KC.
Quite a lot of people seem to agree with you. I know I ummed and aahed over that one for quite a while. Can't even remember what I picked as first now.
I have no major disagreementa with the top part of this list. I had Goons above KC, but it's so close and I can't say I'm comfortable putting one over the other.
I have the same ranking for Grand Market, Lost Arts, and Border Village. I've become more and more convinced that Border Village deserves its #5 spot or something close to it.
I'm surprised neither Lost Arts nor Pathfinding beat Grand Market. I suppose that Grand Market is never, ever not a great card, whereas I can imagine there are kingdoms where neither Pathfinding nor Lost Arts shine (either because you're already close to drawing and playing your whole deck, or your card distribution is very spread out), but I still think in the majority of cases you'd much rather spend $6 giving actions to three, four or five cards in your deck, or spending $8 to turn three, four of five cantrips in your deck into Laboratory+ cards compared to buying a single cantrip that gives you $2 and a buy. But I guess that comparison is only fair if you're only planning on buying one Grand Market, which is never the case.
King's Court would benefit almost every deck; but you can build a deck around Goons.
However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.
However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.
GM is secretly an $8 pretty much. I'm actually surprised it is still as high as it isThe first Grand Market might be about as difficult to acquire as an 8-cost card, but subsequent ones are not. Part of what makes Grand Market so impactful is the snowball effect. Once a player gets one Grand Market (a significant challenge on most boards), it becomes much easier to get more Grand Markets. And winning the Grand Market split 7/3 or better is very valuable.
However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.
Beggar-Gardens? Masterpiece-Feodum? I don't think I'd stop by Grand Market for those.
Can somebody explain why Fairgrounds is a great card to me? I must be missing something. If anything, my tendency is to rank victory cards higher than the average around here (I ranked Tunnel, Gardens, and Duke all significantly higher than average), but Fairgrounds has never stood out to me - especially amid the stiff competition of the 6+ cost cards.
My thoughts on Fairgrounds: with just a little effort, it's worth 4 VP in an engine. 4 VP for 6 coins is pretty good, but nothing special. With a lot of effort, Fairgrounds can be worth 6 VP. 6 VP for 6 coins is very good, but not quite as good as Duke (which can be 6+ VP for 5 coins with similar effort). As another pile of substantial VP, Fairgrounds slants the game in favor of engines (like Vineyards, Distant Lands, and (IMO) Gardens). However, in engine mirrors, 3-pile endings are pretty common (especially in 3+ player games), so Fairgrounds might hardly be purchased. The best environment for Fairgrounds is a kingdom with a lot of interchangeable engine parts, but such kingdoms aren't common.
What am I missing?
Thats simple, basically any engine with strong draw. On half of engine boards by the time you could get grand market opponent engine is already at double province/colony phase and you need to start greening or opponent three piles or gets six province lead in three turns.
dNo, for engine you need to add payload only once you could draw deck. And as buying three silvers tend to be terrible you could afford it after first platinum. So you have two turns where you could add single grand market or platinum and engine component until you start double-colony turns.Thats simple, basically any engine with strong draw. On half of engine boards by the time you could get grand market opponent engine is already at double province/colony phase and you need to start greening or opponent three piles or gets six province lead in three turns.
Well, if your opponent is hitting $22 with 2 buys before you're hitting $6 without Coppers, it's probably not the Grand Market's fault if you're losing.
No, for engine you need to add payload only once you could draw deck.
Can somebody explain why Fairgrounds is a great card to me? I must be missing something. If anything, my tendency is to rank victory cards higher than the average around here (I ranked Tunnel, Gardens, and Duke all significantly higher than average), but Fairgrounds has never stood out to me - especially amid the stiff competition of the 6+ cost cards.
My thoughts on Fairgrounds: with just a little effort, it's worth 4 VP in an engine. 4 VP for 6 coins is pretty good, but nothing special. With a lot of effort, Fairgrounds can be worth 6 VP. 6 VP for 6 coins is very good, but not quite as good as Duke (which can be 6+ VP for 5 coins with similar effort). As another pile of substantial VP, Fairgrounds slants the game in favor of engines (like Vineyards, Distant Lands, and (IMO) Gardens). However, in engine mirrors, 3-pile endings are pretty common (especially in 3+ player games), so Fairgrounds might hardly be purchased. The best environment for Fairgrounds is a kingdom with a lot of interchangeable engine parts, but such kingdoms aren't common.
What am I missing?
Thank you for the responses. I'd like to articulate my reservation with considering Fairgrounds a high-impact card. First, I'll divide all possible kingdoms into four groups: A, B, C, and D.
A) Kingdoms with a large variety of interchangeable engine components. Fairgrounds will figure prominently in deck-building strategy. In these kingdoms, a 3-pile ending (that doesn't include Fairgrounds) is less likely, and Fairgrounds can be brought to 6 VP without significantly affecting deck quality.
B) Kingdoms with a few key engine components. The presence of Fairgrounds isn't likely to change anyone's strategy. All players will pursue those key engine components and a 3-pile ending is likely. Some players might grab some Fairgrounds for 4 VP, but this is only slightly better than Duchies.
C) Kingdoms where big money and engine strategies are equally viable (absent Fairgrounds). Fairgrounds will encourage the engine. In most such kingdoms, it will often be non-optimal to try to get 15+ unique cards, so Fairgrounds will be only slightly better than Duchies.
D) All other kingdoms: slogs, rushes, combos, uncontested big money. Fairgrounds will be completely ignored. (If the big money strategy can costlessly contain 10+ unique cards, this is probably a B kingdom.)
Fairgrounds is quite valuable in A kingdoms, somewhat impactful in C kingdoms, very minor in B kingdoms, and irrelevant in D kingdoms. In my experience, though, B kingdoms are the most common and A kingdoms the least common. As a result, Fairgrounds has a minor impact on the average kingdom.
Have I framed this reasonably? Am I mistaken about the prevalence of the kingdom types? Is there any data on how often high-level games end on three piles (a pretty strong indication of B or D kingdoms, IMO)?
1.) Lost Arts [X]
2.) Goons [X]
3.) Inheritance [X]
4.) King's Court [X]
5.) Grand Market [X]
6.) Hunting Grounds [X]
7.) Pathfinding [X]
8.) Fairgrounds [X]
9.) Hireling [X]
10.) Peddler [X]
11.) Forge [X]
12.) Altar [X]
13.) Prince [X]
14.) Border Village [X]
15.) Expand [X]
16.) Bank [X]
17.) Hoard [X]
18.) Training [X]
19.) Nobles [X]
20.) Farmland [X]
21.) Harem [X]
22.) Adventurer [X]
Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...
The only thing that's wrong with Border Village's ranking is that it should be higher than Grand Market. It's a Village that doesn't cost a buy and costs only $1 in coins. That is amazingly good for engines. Other than King's Court (whose power really lies in that it's also super good payload), I would say that Border Village is the strongest engine component in the entire game, and that really does say something.
Inheritance sucks if there is cheaper estate trashing(hermit,forager,chapel,urchin,steward,(joat maybe), (salvager maybe) when it is like "great i just this (Insert 4 cost here) cost 2 and nets me 1 vp. Personally I like KC because it means I can draw my deck with one play, add then payload quickly. I don't like Goons above KC because goons games without a village turn into goons big money but in a deck with draw little better than ruined library can make your deck explode. Gaining 3 cards once per game and putting you cost reduction token on something is little better than kinging a workshop.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...
The only thing that's wrong with Border Village's ranking is that it should be higher than Grand Market. It's a Village that doesn't cost a buy and costs only $1 in coins. That is amazingly good for engines. Other than King's Court (whose power really lies in that it's also super good payload), I would say that Border Village is the strongest engine component in the entire game, and that really does say something.
Yeah, it's good, but there are two cases. Case 1 is where Border Village isn't the only village. Border Village is nice here. Not nearly nice enough to compete with these cards that are ridiculous. Here, you're overestimating the effect. The other situation is where Border Village is the only village, where its cost of $6 is a huge handicap. Here, you're just severely underestimating the opportunity cost of Border Village.
Adam, you say the 6+-cost cards are often game breaking, but there are a bunch of 5-cost cards that are as well. Border Village gets you those cards paired with a village, which is likely to make those 5-costs even more effective when combined with the rest of your deck.
I don't think I'm overestimating the effect in case 1. It's a Village for $1 and no buy. That is ridiculous.
I'm willing to say that almost every card I ranked above Border Village on this list I would prefer to have in my deck over village+fiver.Border Village + Torturer >> Hunting Grounds
Similar, but Border Village has three advantages and one disadvantage over Port.I don't think I'm overestimating the effect in case 1. It's a Village for $1 and no buy. That is ridiculous.
This is, like, exactly the same thing as Port, isn't it? People seem to think Port is better than I do. Hmh.
I'm willing to say that almost every card I ranked above Border Village on this list I would prefer to have in my deck over village+fiver.Border Village + Torturer >> Hunting Grounds
Border Village is great with any Smithy+ card, but is especially great with Torturer. Kind of like Lost Arts, now that I think on it (no, the comparison isn't perfect).
Of course this vastly depends on your deck and the fiver
Similar, but Border Village has three advantages and one disadvantage over Port.I don't think I'm overestimating the effect in case 1. It's a Village for $1 and no buy. That is ridiculous.
This is, like, exactly the same thing as Port, isn't it? People seem to think Port is better than I do. Hmh.
I should point out that all four of these things are really, really minor.
I should point out that all four of these things are really, really minor.
Being able to gain a terminal with your splitter is really, really enormous. Gaining a splitter with your splitter is tårta på tårta.
Just because you say again that it's "really, really enormous" doesn't mean it is, and that doesn't make me agree with you. I mean, you actually get to choose what else you're buying on your turn so if you need to gain two villages at once you just buy/gain two terminals some other way. If you change absolutely nothing at all about the way you build your deck then this is really good, but that's not practical.
I just think these things that are good about Border Village are "good" and not "game-breaking" or "enormous" like these other cards are. If I make a post saying the same thing again for every post someone else makes that says something different, it makes me more right, doesn't it?