(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/df/Duchess.jpg/200px-Duchess.jpg) | #33 ▼1 Duchess (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 9.4% ▼2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 10.4% / Median: 6.3% ▼3.2pp / Standard Deviation: 14.1% Duchess is back in the last place just like in 2012 Edition 1. It has the second lowest deviation in this list. It has 26 last votes and no votes above 50% except one who voted it first! |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b3/Secret_Chamber.jpg/200px-Secret_Chamber.jpg) | #32 ▲1 Secret Chamber (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 10.0% ▼1.0pp / Unweighted Average: 11.3% / Median: 4.8% ▼4.7pp / Standard Deviation: 16.9% Secret Chamber is not the worst $2 card anymore, with a lead of 0.6pp, but it still lost 1pp. It has more last places than Duchess though: 28. But it was voted 6 times above 50%. It has still a pretty low deviation. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/26/Herbalist.jpg/200px-Herbalist.jpg) | #31 ▼1 Herbalist (Alchemy) Weighted Average: 15.5% ▼6.3pp / Unweighted Average: 16.7% / Median: 12.5% ▼6.6pp / Standard Deviation: 15.4% Herbalist lost over 6pp and one place, but is still over 5pp better than Secret Chamber. The agreement is much higher; it has the third lowest deviation. It has 11 last places and 3 votes above 50%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/56/Pearl_Diver.jpg/200px-Pearl_Diver.jpg) | #30 ▲1 Pearl Diver (Seaside) Weighted Average: 17.3% ▲1.6pp / Unweighted Average: 20.3% / Median: 15.6% ▲1.3pp / Standard Deviation: 19.7% Pearl Diver is slightly better and one rank higher. It was voted last 11 times and 8 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2f/Beggar.jpg/200px-Beggar.jpg) | #29 =0 Beggar (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 21.4% ▼9.2pp / Unweighted Average: 22.8% / Median: 18.8% ▼9.8pp / Standard Deviation: 18.3% Beggar lost quite a lot, but stays still on the same rank. It was voted 5 times last and 9 times above 50%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/fb/Embargo.jpg/200px-Embargo.jpg) | #28 ▼3 Embargo (Seaside) Weighted Average: 26.9% ▼13.8pp / Unweighted Average: 29.4% / Median: 28.1% ▼10.0pp / Standard Deviation: 18.7% Embargo is one of the biggest losers. It's over 13pp worse than last time and lost 3 ranks. It was voted last 4 times and 9 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/36/Quest.jpg/320px-Quest.jpg) | #27 Quest (Adventures) Weighted Average: 29.4% / Unweighted Average: 30.2% / Median: 25.0% / Standard Deviation: 20.9% Quest is the worst of the new Adventures cards. It was voted last once and 12 times above 50%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b2/Scouting_Party.jpg/320px-Scouting_Party.jpg) | #26 Scouting Party (Adventures) Weighted Average: 31.6% / Unweighted Average: 33.5% / Median: 28.1% / Standard Deviation: 23.4% And the second Adventures cards follows immediately. It has a pretty high deviation. It was voted last once and 16 times above average. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d6/Poor_House.jpg/200px-Poor_House.jpg) | #25 ▼1 Poor House (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 31.7% ▼6.1pp / Unweighted Average: 33.1% / Median: 28.1% ▼10.0pp / Standard Deviation: 21.8% Poor House is definitely worse than last time and lost one rank. It has only a lead of 0.1pp over Scouting Party. In the unweighted average it's even below Scouting Party. It was voted last 3 times and 10 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/fe/Moat.jpg/200px-Moat.jpg) | #24 ▲2 Moat (Base) Weighted Average: 35.3% ▲1.4pp / Unweighted Average: 33.4% / Median: 29.2% ▲0.6pp / Standard Deviation: 19.7% Moat is slightly better than last time, but is even 2 ranks higher. It has only a lead of 0.3pp in the unweighted average over Poor House. It was voted last 3 times and 8 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3f/Vagrant.jpg/200px-Vagrant.jpg) | #23 ▲2 Vagrant (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 36.6% ▲0.2pp / Unweighted Average: 36.5% / Median: 34.4% ▲1.1pp / Standard Deviation: 17.3% Vagrant almost stayed the same, but is just like Moat 2 ranks higher than last time. It has a pretty low deviation. It was voted last twice and only 3 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/c9/Haven.jpg/200px-Haven.jpg) | #22 ▼1 Haven (Seaside) Weighted Average: 41.6% ▼2.3pp / Unweighted Average: 42.9% / Median: 42.9% ▼4.7pp / Standard Deviation: 20.6% Haven has a decent 5pp lead over Vagrant and lost one rank in comparism to last year. It has 3 last places and 10 votes above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/0/0f/Pawn.jpg/200px-Pawn.jpg) | #21 ▼1 Pawn (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 42.3% ▼5.5pp / Unweighted Average: 43.1% / Median: 42.9% ▼9.5pp / Standard Deviation: 17.6% Pawn lost also one rank, but a quite a bit more in its average value. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It has a pretty low deviation as it was never voted last and has also only 8 votes above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/1c/Cellar.jpg/200px-Cellar.jpg) | #20 ▲2 Cellar (Base) Weighted Average: 42.9% ▼0.3pp / Unweighted Average: 42.8% / Median: 41.2% ▼1.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.4% Cellar's average value stayed basically the same, but still it's 2 ranks higher than last time. It would be below Pawn in the unweighted ranking. It was voted last 3 times and 10 times above 70%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/be/Travelling_Fair.jpg/320px-Travelling_Fair.jpg) | #19 Travelling Fair (Adventures) Weighted Average: 47.8% / Unweighted Average: 45.7% / Median: 46.9% / Standard Deviation: 23.1% Travelling Fair is the third new event in this list. It has a pretty high deviation. It was voted last once and 14 times above 70%, even once on the first rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2e/Save.jpg/320px-Save.jpg) | #18 Save (Adventures) Weighted Average: 50.8% / Unweighted Average: 48.2% / Median: 43.8% / Standard Deviation: 22.4% And we're now above 50% and here comes even the fourth event. It was voted below 30% 15 times and above 70% 15 times as well. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/67/Native_Village.jpg/200px-Native_Village.jpg) | #17 =0 Native Village (Seaside) Weighted Average: 51.7% ▲0.8pp / Unweighted Average: 53.9% / Median: 53.9% ▲1.5pp / Standard Deviation: 19.2% Native Village stayed on the same rank with almost the same average value. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted 12 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/88/Borrow.jpg/320px-Borrow.jpg) | #16 Borrow (Adventures) Weighted Average: 52.7% / Unweighted Average: 52.2% / Median: 53.1% / Standard Deviation: 23.5% And the fifth event! Borrow would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It has the highest deviation in this list so far. It was voted 13 times below 30% with 2 last ranks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d3/Raze.jpg/200px-Raze.jpg) | #15 Raze (Adventures) Weighted Average: 54.2% / Unweighted Average: 54.4% / Median: 53.6% / Standard Deviation: 24.9% Finally the first real card from Adventures. It has the third highest deviation in this list. It was voted 18 times below 30%, but on the other side first twice. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/ac/Alms.jpg/320px-Alms.jpg) | #14 Alms (Adventures) Weighted Average: 56.8% / Unweighted Average: 58.9% / Median: 65.6% / Standard Deviation: 27.6% And the next event. Alms would be two ranks higher in the unweighted ranking. It has by far the highest deviation in this list. It was voted 15 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/76/Coin_of_the_Realm.jpg/200px-Coin_of_the_Realm.jpg) | #13 Coin of the Realm (Adventures) Weighted Average: 58.1% / Unweighted Average: 57.7% / Median: 59.4% / Standard Deviation: 20.9% The fourth Adventures card in a row! Coin of the Realm would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 8 times below 30% with one last rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/cd/Crossroads.jpg/200px-Crossroads.jpg) | #12 =0 Crossroads (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 58.6% ▼1.7pp / Unweighted Average: 58.3% / Median: 59.4% ▼2.5pp / Standard Deviation: 20.0% Crossroads lost a little bit, but stayed on the same rank. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 12 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2c/Candlestick_Maker.jpg/200px-Candlestick_Maker.jpg) | #11 ▼1 Candlestick Maker (Guilds) Weighted Average: 61.7% ▼5.7pp / Unweighted Average: 63.0% / Median: 62.5% ▼8.9pp / Standard Deviation: 18.1% Candlestick Maker lost in its average value and also a rank. It was voted only 4 times below 30%, once on the last rank. It has also two first ranks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/1d/Ratcatcher.jpg/200px-Ratcatcher.jpg) | #10 Ratcatcher (Adventures) Weighted Average: 65.4% / Unweighted Average: 64.1% / Median: 65.6% / Standard Deviation: 17.9% Ratcatcher is the next Adventures card. It was voted only 3 times below 30%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/79/Squire.jpg/200px-Squire.jpg) | #9 ▼2 Squire (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 69.6% ▼2.0pp / Unweighted Average: 68.6% / Median: 71.4% ▼4.8pp / Standard Deviation: 17.7% Squire lost only 2pp, but still lost 2 ranks. It was voted 13 times below average and once on the first rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/4/4f/Lighthouse.jpg/200px-Lighthouse.jpg) | #8 =0 Lighthouse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 72.3% ▲2.1pp / Unweighted Average: 72.6% / Median: 75.0% ▲3.6pp / Standard Deviation: 17.2% Lighthouse is slightly better, but is still on the same rank. It has a pretty low deviation. It was voted 10 times below 50% and has 2 first ranks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/df/Hamlet.jpg/200px-Hamlet.jpg) | #7 ▼1 Hamlet (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 76.4% ▼4.3pp / Unweighted Average: 76.3% / Median: 81.0% ▼4.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.9% Hamlet lost this year one rank again. But it would be even 3 ranks higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted only 7 times below 50%. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/ed/Fool%27s_Gold.jpg/200px-Fool%27s_Gold.jpg) | #6 ▼2 Fool's Gold (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 76.5% ▼6.6pp / Unweighted Average: 76.0% / Median: 84.% ▼1.3pp / Standard Deviation: 20.8% Fool's Gold is a big loser, it lost over 6pp and 2 ranks and it's only 0.05pp better than Hamlet, so it was very close. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 11 times below average and 3 times on the first rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/30/Courtyard.jpg/200px-Courtyard.jpg) | #5 =0 Courtyard (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 76.7% ▼4.2pp / Unweighted Average: 74.2% / Median: 80.1% ▼5.6pp / Standard Deviation: 21.1% Courtyard lost a bit, but is still on the same rank, although it's only 0.25pp better than Fool's Gold and 0.3pp better than Hamlet. It would be 2 ranks lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 12 times below average and 3 times on the first rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d2/Stonemason.jpg/200px-Stonemason.jpg) | #4 ▲6 Stonemason (Guilds) Weighted Average: 79.7% ▲15.4pp / Unweighted Average: 74.5% / Median: 81.3% ▲9.9pp / Standard Deviation: 22.8% Stonemason is the big winner in this year's list. It's over 15pp and 6 ranks better, wow! In the unweighted ranking it would be 2 ranks lower. It was 14 times below 50% with 2 ranks. On the other side it was voted 3 times on the first rank. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/70/Peasant.jpg/200px-Peasant.jpg) | #3 Peasant (Adventures) Weighted Average: 82.2% / Unweighted Average: 77.0% / Median: 87.5% / Standard Deviation: 25.0% Peasant is the second best new Adventures card. It has also the second highest deviation in this list with 9 votes below average with one last rank on one side and 7 first ranks on the other side. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/60/Page.jpg/200px-Page.jpg) | #2 Page (Adventures) Weighted Average: 87.6% / Unweighted Average: 82.1% / Median: 90.6% / Standard Deviation: 21.2% Page is the best Adventures card in this list which means that both Travellers are in the Top 3. It has 8 votes below average and 4 first ranks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/29/Chapel.jpg/200px-Chapel.jpg) | #1 =0 Chapel (Base) Weighted Average: 97.6% ▲1.5pp / Unweighted Average: 95.4% / Median: 100% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 12.0% Chapel is without a doubt still #1 with a lead of exactly 10pp and the lowest deviation in this list. It was only voted below average twice and was voted first 76 times! |
#5 =0 Ruined Village (Dark Ages)
Everyone voted it last except one person who voted it first.
#33 ▼1 Duchess (Hinterlands)
It has 26 last votes and no votes above 50% except one who voted it first!
Whoops, my bad that was embarrassing. You can remove your comment then if you want.No develop in the bottom third?! Craziness! Although I do agree with it.
Develop costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
Apparently I am vastly underestimating the power of Raze... it sits near the bottom for me and is no where to be found in the bottom third.Non terminal trashing is best kind. That's why lookout is the best card in the game. ;)
I think we are under rating scouting party. It is often a good buy to cycle, especially with these new travellers.
I think we are under rating scouting party. It is often a good buy to cycle, especially with these new travellers.
I dislike that the discarding is mandatory. But if it isn't mandatory, then sometimes you'd just look at the top 5 and reorder them. For (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png). When the only card that can possibly care about that order is Outpost. So. Eh.
the systematic and soul-crushing community bias against Duchess continues .I totally agree with ya man. I actually had duchess ahead of scouting party and secret chamber. Most of the time secret chamber is a terminal copper. And very rarely does it ever shine. Now duchess may never really shine, but it's 99% of the time a better source of money.
not that it's a good card, but I mean Secret Chamber, that's like, bad card de chez bad card.
Duchess is free! You're too good for a free duchess?? take a Duchess.
Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
Dude...I'm like half your age.Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
So you like to be on top instead?
Dude...I'm like half your age.Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
So you like to be on top instead?
Dude...I'm like half your age.Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
So you like to be on top instead?
Duchess is hard to rank... I'm guessing one of the main ways in which people ranked cards was by thinking "If I had (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) to spend, what would I buy? And in this situation, the fact that you can get Duchess for free actually works against Duchess, even though it's an ability that makes Duchess better, not worse.
One can also ask "If I could have any (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) in my hand to play right now, what do I wish that card were? And again, the ability to get Duchess for free isn't accounted for there either.
I'm pretty surprised that Haven isn't in the bottom 10. I had it below Moat, Embargo, Vagrant, Scouting Party, and Quest. In my experience, it doesn't change the game much. Generally, it's slightly useful (better than Pearl Diver), but it rarely shines and it often hurts. Moat and Embargo seem pretty underrated here. +2 cards isn't so bad in a thin deck with a lot of villages, and the attack stopping is a significant upside on most boards. Moat gets better in 3 and 4 player games, which should factor into the ranking, IMO. I don't buy Embargo often, but it's impact on the game is significant (even if no-one buys it!). It stops most combos in their tracks and rewards divergent strategies. I'll admit that it is difficult to evaluate. I also had Duchess higher: it makes it easier to grab Duchies earlier on a non-significant number of boards. That's a larger impact than Pearl Diver or Herbalist usually have, IMO.
(Lookout may beat Sea Hag, but that doesn't make it a stronger card across the board).
(Lookout may beat Sea Hag, but that doesn't make it a stronger card across the board).
That is true. It is a stronger card across the board for completely different reasons.
I find that it's hard to get an asymmetric effect out of the Embargo token that leaves you in a better position. It can be used as a win-while-ahead card if you were faster to get your share of a key card and then embargo it. Even the Silver pile can do. If you can pull that off then the token is useful.
Yeah, the embargo part of Embargo doesn't hardly do anything at all. Though it sure does seem to trick a lot of people into thinking it does.
Yeah, the embargo part of Embargo doesn't hardly do anything at all. Though it sure does seem to trick a lot of people into thinking it does.
This confuses me. Is that supposed to be a double negative? It looks like one to me.
Yeah, the embargo part of Embargo doesn't hardly do anything at all. Though it sure does seem to trick a lot of people into thinking it does.
This confuses me. Is that supposed to be a double negative? It looks like one to me.
Just remove the adverb from the sentence and the meaning is clear; 'hardly' is in the sentence only to make room for edge cases.
Dude...I'm like half your age.Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
So you like to be on top instead?
Hey, I'm not that old.
I'm the youngest person on f.ds who has been active in the past ten minutes!Dude...I'm like half your age.Once again...it wasn't me who put Duchess on the top!
So you like to be on top instead?
Hey, I'm not that old.
I find that it's hard to get an asymmetric effect out of the Embargo token that leaves you in a better position. It can be used as a win-while-ahead card if you were faster to get your share of a key card and then embargo it. Even the Silver pile can do. If you can pull that off then the token is useful.
Duchess is weak, but I believe I had Pearl Diver last. I mean, come on, unless you have tokens, or are buying it for Goons points, Pearl Diver is almost useless.
Funny, I have the biggest disagreement with the two cards that have the most deviation, I rated both of them quite a bit lower, can anybody jump to their defense?
I consider Alm not very strong at all. Sure, you open with it 90% of the time(rather it matters 90% of the time), but afterwards? It may be quite neat neat to get a four cost instead of a three cost some time, but a lot of the times there is a viable card to buy for less, too. And it treasure less decks it's a workshop that costs a buy instead of an action and you can not gain+play it, so that's not really great either.
Well maybe you can trash more rigoriously, but that's about it.
The same for borrow: It's probably ok to buy it occasionally, but beyond that? I don't really see how it's stronger than some of the cards you could have bought.
Whoa, Coin of the Realm below Crossroads, huh? That doesn't seem right.I think this might be an effect of many people not rating Adventures altogether. Percentage-wise most non adventurous cards will fare better than cards from Adventures, since Adventure density is higher at the top rather than at the bottom.
Whoa, Coin of the Realm below Crossroads, huh? That doesn't seem right.
I think Crossroads should be above Coin of the Realm, so LF's confusion is confusing to me unless his assumption was that people would overrate COTR.
Funny, I have the biggest disagreement with the two cards that have the most deviation, I rated both of them quite a bit lower, can anybody jump to their defense?I think Alms is the most underrated card on the list so far (I ranked it 6th). Here is why I think it's one of the cards with the highest impact:
I consider Alm not very strong at all. Sure, you open with it 90% of the time(rather it matters 90% of the time), but afterwards? It may be quite neat neat to get a four cost instead of a three cost some time, but a lot of the times there is a viable card to buy for less, too. And it treasure less decks it's a workshop that costs a buy instead of an action and you can not gain+play it, so that's not really great either.
Well maybe you can trash more rigoriously, but that's about it.
I find it interesting that Raze is below Ratcatcher apparently. I feel like Raze is stronger:
- it is a faster trasher. Ratcatcher needs two turn to take effect.
- Raze is a bit worse at trashing Copper, granted. I don't think that's huge.
- on the other hand, Raze is better for trashing Estates.
- both remove themselves from your deck when no longer needed. But Raze gives a benefit when doing that.
- Raze has some mid- to late-game utility, Ratcatcher doesn't.
I see Alms as favouring engines that have lots of virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
I see Alms as favouring engines that have lots of virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
Alms favors engines that have ONLY virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
Funny, I have the biggest disagreement with the two cards that have the most deviation, I rated both of them quite a bit lower, can anybody jump to their defense?I think Alms is the most underrated card on the list so far (I ranked it 6th). Here is why I think it's one of the cards with the highest impact:
I consider Alm not very strong at all. Sure, you open with it 90% of the time(rather it matters 90% of the time), but afterwards? It may be quite neat neat to get a four cost instead of a three cost some time, but a lot of the times there is a viable card to buy for less, too. And it treasure less decks it's a workshop that costs a buy instead of an action and you can not gain+play it, so that's not really great either.
Well maybe you can trash more rigoriously, but that's about it.Now that I think on it, I might have underranked it at 6th! I will be shocked if Alms doesn't rise in the next set of rankings.
- Alms dramatically changes opening buy/gains.
- Alms makes heavy trashing less costly.
- Alms makes early gainers more valuable.
- Alms makes early coin less valuable.
- Alms makes virtual money decks with +buy more viable.
- Alms reduces the effectiveness of early attacks like Militia and Cutpurse by providing a floor on the worst possible hand.
- Alms smooths out bad hands early due to shuffle luck.
- If you use Alms, you don't play any of your treasures, so you deny information to your opponent(s).
I see Alms as favouring engines that have lots of virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
Alms favors engines that have ONLY virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
I find it interesting that Raze is below Ratcatcher apparently. I feel like Raze is stronger:
- it is a faster trasher. Ratcatcher needs two turn to take effect.
- Raze is a bit worse at trashing Copper, granted. I don't think that's huge.
- on the other hand, Raze is better for trashing Estates.
- both remove themselves from your deck when no longer needed. But Raze gives a benefit when doing that.
- Raze has some mid- to late-game utility, Ratcatcher doesn't.
I see Alms as favouring engines that have lots of virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
Alms favors engines that have ONLY virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
i.e. Candlestick Maker
Even if you're planning on adding treasure latter, Alms can still be useful for double-buys in the early game, as long as you have enough virtual coin for a single card and a +buy. I've often done things like play a Woodcutter variant and buy a $2 card and Alms. Basically, if there's enough virtual money to get a desirable card (and your engine relies on cards costing 4 or less), Alms rewards picking up a +Buy significantly earlier than you normally would.I see Alms as favouring engines that have lots of virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
Alms favors engines that have ONLY virtual coin and some spare buys (and 4-cost or less cards worth getting).
And it treasure less decks it's a workshop that costs a buy instead of an action and you can not gain+play it, so that's not really great either.
I think this might be an effect of many people not rating Adventures altogether. Percentage-wise most non adventurous cards will fare better than cards from Adventures, since Adventure density is higher at the top rather than at the bottom.
These events are tricky to rate. It will be obvious when Alms is the correct buy, so it's hard to credit outplaying your opponent(s) based on using Alms itself instead of the card you gained with it. That's not the case with Borrow.
I feel like the ranking for a card like Borrow would reflect on how often it's worth buying, but a card like Alms would undoubtedly be first if the rankings were based on gain/buy rate alone since you'd expect to buy it pretty much every game. I guess Alms should be ranked based on how often you'll want to skip playing treasures in order to use it's effect.
To me it seems the events have to be ranked based on different metrics than regular cards and those metrics vary from event to event. What does it really mean for an event to be strong?
I find it interesting that Raze is below Ratcatcher apparently. I feel like Raze is stronger:Agreed, though I think Raze and Ratcatcher are very similar in value. Raze is a very solid Estate trasher that removes itself. Raze is not good at trashing Copper, Curses, and Ruins. I would never buy Raze for Copper trashing and I would only buy it in response to heavy junking if there was no other option. (However, having bought Raze for trashing Estates, I might trash a Copper if I drew it in a hand without Estates.) Lookout is pretty comparable to Raze. In both cases, you trash a card, discard a card from your deck, and end up with [hand-1] cards and net 0 actions. The advantage of Lookout is that it can trash Coppers, Curses, and Ruins. The advantage of Raze is that you have more cards to choose to trash from, and it can remove itself for benefit whenever you want to.
- it is a faster trasher. Ratcatcher needs two turn to take effect.
- Raze is a bit worse at trashing Copper, granted. I don't think that's huge.
- on the other hand, Raze is better for trashing Estates.
- both remove themselves from your deck when no longer needed. But Raze gives a benefit when doing that.
- Raze has some mid- to late-game utility, Ratcatcher doesn't.
These events are tricky to rate. It will be obvious when Alms is the correct buy, so it's hard to credit outplaying your opponent(s) based on using Alms itself instead of the card you gained with it. That's not the case with Borrow.
I feel like the ranking for a card like Borrow would reflect on how often it's worth buying, but a card like Alms would undoubtedly be first if the rankings were based on gain/buy rate alone since you'd expect to buy it pretty much every game. I guess Alms should be ranked based on how often you'll want to skip playing treasures in order to use it's effect.
To me it seems the events have to be ranked based on different metrics than regular cards and those metrics vary from event to event. What does it really mean for an event to be strong?
I think it still works to consider the change in your overall win percentage if you don't have access to the event. If you play a million games on random boards where you have exclusive access to Alms and your opponent doesn't, what happens to your win percentage? Same question for Borrow instead of Alms. I'd guess Alms is a lot better than Borrow when you consider it that way. That means that Alms is contributing more to your win percentage than Borrow is.
There are probably cases where this way of looking at it doesn't fit with our intuitive understanding of card strength, but I don't think events are really different from cards this way.
People keep talking about how raze removes itself from your deck. This is the exact same thing with ratcatcher. The only difference is that you don't get the extra card's worth of sifting when you remove ratcatcher from your deck. The fact that you can choose when it's effect takes place is also huge! You can wait until you get that curse in your hand before you use it!With Raze I ask myself how often are you going to trash something costing more than Estate. For more expensive cards I'd rather trash-for-benefit on the level of Remodel.
Granted. I would rarely trash high-value cards with Raze. But that's no different from Ratcatcher! If Raze trashes an Estate, a Copper (because there was no Estate in hand), an Estate, and then itself, I'm pretty pleased. It can generally trash those three cards faster than Ratcatcher can trash two junk cards.People keep talking about how raze removes itself from your deck. This is the exact same thing with ratcatcher. The only difference is that you don't get the extra card's worth of sifting when you remove ratcatcher from your deck. The fact that you can choose when it's effect takes place is also huge! You can wait until you get that curse in your hand before you use it!With Raze I ask myself how often are you going to trash something costing more than Estate. For more expensive cards I'd rather trash-for-benefit on the level of Remodel.
Yeah that makes sense. I do think Ratcatcher is safer to get in multiples when you have spare $2 to spare. Even with multiple Ratcatcher, you can always trash cards from your hand when most convenient. I guess that's how Ratcatcher is supposed to be used anyway. Only being able to trash at the start of turn is a definite weakness though.Granted. I would rarely trash high-value cards with Raze. But that's no different from Ratcatcher! If Raze trashes an Estate, a Copper (because there was no Estate in hand), an Estate, and then itself, I'm pretty pleased. It can generally trash those three cards faster than Ratcatcher can trash two junk cards.People keep talking about how raze removes itself from your deck. This is the exact same thing with ratcatcher. The only difference is that you don't get the extra card's worth of sifting when you remove ratcatcher from your deck. The fact that you can choose when it's effect takes place is also huge! You can wait until you get that curse in your hand before you use it!With Raze I ask myself how often are you going to trash something costing more than Estate. For more expensive cards I'd rather trash-for-benefit on the level of Remodel.
As expected of Stonemason! It's still underrated though.Indeed, I have it at #2 as well.
Hamlet is definitely better than Fool's Gold, in that it's more often useful. I skip Fool's Gold way more often than I skip Hamlet. But it's pretty close.
As expected of Stonemason! It's still underrated though.Indeed, I have it at #2 as well.
In my voting, Peasant is at #3 and Page at #4. I think it's easier to upgrade Peasants, that's why I voted it that way around.
Any comment on Peasant vs. Page by someone who has more experience with Adventures?
I put peasant above page. Teacher and champion are both crazy, but teacher adds more to your deck since you get access to four tokens. It also tends to be easier to get. Disciple and soldier are also really great cards. (Soldier depends on the board) I think page is slightly less good since it has to add treasure to your deck while upgrading and also runs the risk of failing due to warrior clashing.Champion is harder to get but at least isn't a reserve card like teacher. The thing going for champion is it affects all cards, some events take away the purpose of teacher and it isn't a reserve. The thing going for teacher is that it can place 4 different tokens on piles(that have to be different) and it is easier to get.
Both are very close, mind. It doesn't bug me one is ranked over the other.
By and large, you want to buy one copy of a Traveller and you want it in your opening buy.
It's like you say deck accelerators help. But, you mention things like Ironmonger and Spice Merchant. With good to great trashing, the travellers become much better and easier to get quickly. And, why wouldn't you buy them on your opening buys even for $3, and about 50% of the time you will pay $2 because you are opening 5/2 (although I swear I open 3/4 more often).You only have a 16.7% chance of opening 2/5 or 5/2...
The thing is the impact they have on the game which is huge. Champion's impact is bigger than KC. Teacher is probably even bigger than KC as well when you get down to it. Peasant can turn into a TR that is also a gainer. With what games I have played, I would say they are hardly overrated. I have seen games where an engine was not possible at all suddenly come to life. Like every time these cards are on the board, the possibility of an engine is very strong even if you don't have any normal engine components.Champion and Teacher are probably better than King's Court. They also cost a LOT in time and opportunity cost. You can't buy Champion for 7 coins. If you could, that would be a better card than Page.
Also, minus the whole travller exchange thing, Herbalist and Peasant are almost the same card. The money top-decking thing of Herbalist is super-weak and you rarely ever want to top-deck your treasures. Hell, in the Ruins section I mention how Herbalist and Ruined Market are almost the same card, and it's true.I would be very unlikely to buy an Herbalist unless I expected to get some value out of the treasure top-decking. Then again, I find the concept of buying Ruined Market incredulous.
I'm confident that Coin of the Realm will be higher in the next year's list. A card costing $2 that is comparable with Fishing Village is bound to be very powerful. Other than that, I have the same disagreements as I've had with the previous rankings - cantrips like Hamlet, Pawn and Haven are overrated. They just don't do anything really meaningful most of the time. Sure, if the Hamlet is the only village, I'll sigh and force myself to buy them. And of course if I don't have anything else to buy, I'll pick up one. But I still don't consider any of those three strong.
OK I've done complaining about Hamlet now. I guess I'll never learn to stop hating it.
Hamlet is definitely better than Fool's Gold, in that it's more often useful. I skip Fool's Gold way more often than I skip Hamlet. But it's pretty close.
That does not mean Hamlet is better though. Of course you don't skip Hamlet often; it's a cantrip. But FG impacts the game way more when you do get it, and thus it deserves to be above Hamlet.
I ranked Page over Chapel. I hope I'm wrong about its power, but I am worried about Page-Warrior pins.
I ranked Page over Chapel. I hope I'm wrong about its power, but I am worried about Page-Warrior pins.
Very, very few Kingdoms have only (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png) and (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) cards, and there's always Gold. It's not that bad of a pin.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/2771765.jpg)
To me it seems the events have to be ranked based on different metrics than regular cards and those metrics vary from event to event. What does it really mean for an event to be strong?
To me it seems the events have to be ranked based on different metrics than regular cards and those metrics vary from event to event. What does it really mean for an event to be strong?
The Best (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png)-(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) Cards (Part 3/3)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/df/Hamlet.jpg/200px-Hamlet.jpg) #7 ▼1 Hamlet (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 76.4% ▼4.3pp / Unweighted Average: 76.3% / Median: 81.0% ▼4.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.9%
Hamlet lost this year one rank again. But it would be even 3 ranks higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted only 7 times below 50%.
1.) Chapel [X]
2.) Page [X]
3.) Borrow [X]
4.) Save [X]
5.) Coin of the Realm [X]
6.) Peasant [X]
7.) Courtyard [X]
8.) Stonemason [X]
9.) Lighthouse [X]
10.) Hamlet [X]
11.) Squire [X]
12.) Ratcatcher [X]
13.) Haven [X]
14.) Candlestick Maker [X]
15.) Raze [X]
16.) Native Village [X]
17.) Cellar [X]
18.) Travelling Fair [X]
19.) Vagrant [X]
20.) Moat [X]
21.) Fool's Gold [X]
22.) Crossroads [X]
23.) Embargo [X]
24.) Pawn [X]
25.) Poor House [X]
26.) Alms [X]
27.) Scouting Party [X]
28.) Pearl Diver [X]
29.) Beggar [X]
30.) Herbalist [X]
31.) Quest [X]
32.) Secret Chamber [X]
33.) Duchess [X]
Really, you have Peasant under CotR? We can debate relative positions of Events, but surely both Travellers are in the top 5 here.
Really, you have Peasant under CotR? We can debate relative positions of Events, but surely both Travellers are in the top 5 here.
Uhh, yeah I do have that there. As previously mentioned maybe Save shouldn't be that high so I'd be happy saying Peasant is number 5 here. I could also make an argument that it should be lower than 5.
But yeah it's pretty close. I mean, they're right next to each other. Peasant is SUPER slow and has a HUGE opportunity cost, and Teacher is SUPER slow and its payload isn't very explosive or fast. Coin is really really good, it's a much lower opportunity cost and can make a lot of decks much, much better.
I don't think we disagree all that much, really.
Really, you have Peasant under CotR? We can debate relative positions of Events, but surely both Travellers are in the top 5 here.
Uhh, yeah I do have that there. As previously mentioned maybe Save shouldn't be that high so I'd be happy saying Peasant is number 5 here. I could also make an argument that it should be lower than 5.
But yeah it's pretty close. I mean, they're right next to each other. Peasant is SUPER slow and has a HUGE opportunity cost, and Teacher is SUPER slow and its payload isn't very explosive or fast. Coin is really really good, it's a much lower opportunity cost and can make a lot of decks much, much better.
I don't think we disagree all that much, really.
I honestly think Page is slower than Peasant. Warrior can be devastating in the right situations, but TH and Hero slow things down, whereas Fugitive and Disciple speed things up, and Soldier can give an insane amount of (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png)age. But Teacher certainly is more finicky to deal with than Champion, yes.
Chapel and the Travellers
I don't see why Hamlet is so good. With another village, it's trash. It has the issue like Spy and Pawn where you make long, irrelevent decisions. And without Draw-to-X or Tunnel or some big synergy, Hamlet really doesn't look good. Sorta like a beefed up Vagrant.As long as you have good draw, Hamlet is a boss card. Hamlet + good draw + practically any source of coin is a simple but strong engine, with the extra bonus that Hamlet's choices mean you practically always have exactly the bits of the engine you need at that point - so if you don't need an extra Buy, you don't have to have it, but it's there when you need it; similarly if you *have* picked up all the spare Actions you need, then you can just shift into +Buy mode instead. And I don't think the choices are "irrelevant" as much as you think. Spy definitely has that issue, but Hamlet and Pawn are both important *because* they let you choose such a variety of outcomes, and if you think you're always making the same decision then you're probably using them wrong.
It has the issue like Spy and Pawn where you make long, irrelevent decisions.
Should I scan in Base, Cornucopia and Envoy?
Should I scan in Base, Cornucopia and Envoy?
Yes, please do this! Especially if you have a copy of Base that has the bright yellow-colored Coin symbols of later sets, rather than the uglier brown ones.