Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Qvist on November 03, 2015, 07:52:47 am

Title: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Qvist on November 03, 2015, 07:52:47 am
I received 69 votes for this list.

The Ruins

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/ae/Ruined_Village.jpg/200px-Ruined_Village.jpg)#5 =0 Ruined Village (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 0.3% ▼2.0pp / Unweighted Average: 1.5% / Median: 0% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 12.0%

There is no doubt this is the worst Ruin you can possibly get, even less doubt than before. Everyone voted it last except one person who voted it first.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/fe/Ruined_Library.jpg/200px-Ruined_Library.jpg)#4 =0 Ruined Library (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 46.7% ▼2.6pp / Unweighted Average: 46.4% / Median: 50% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 23.8%

Again the closest battle was between #4 and #3. Ruined Library is the second worse Ruin again with a slightly worse average. It was voted last once and 3 times first.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7a/Survivors.jpg/200px-Survivors.jpg)#3 =0 Survivors (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 50.5% ▼3.0pp / Unweighted Average: 49.6% / Median: 50% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 24.6%

Survivors is still #3 with a slightly weaker average as well. I was voted first 6 times.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Abandoned_Mine.jpg/200px-Abandoned_Mine.jpg)#2 ▼1 Abandoned Mine (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 72.9% ▼6.8pp / Unweighted Average: 73.4% / Median: 75% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 24.4%

Abandoned Mine lost quite a bit in points and isn't on #1 anymore. It was voted first 25 times.
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f2/Ruined_Market.jpg/200px-Ruined_Market.jpg)#1 ▲1 Ruined Market (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 79.5% ▲14.1pp / Unweighted Average: 78.4% / Median: 75% ▲25.0pp / Standard Deviation: 25.3%

Ruined Market is again the Ruin with the most disagreement, but now it made a big jump is now on #1. It was voted first 34 times.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Mr Anderson on November 03, 2015, 07:57:06 am
I voted Abandoned Mine first I think but I regret that now. Ruined Market is basically the only Ruins you will ever WANT to get, I recently found myself disappointed that Ruined Market never showed up, I would have bought that over playing Marauder, so actually there is absolutely no disagreement with this list.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Awaclus on November 03, 2015, 08:13:04 am
It's nice to see Ruined Market as the #1. As long as you can make your engine work despite the junking, the +buy will usually have at least some, probably even significant value at some point. The other Ruins can merely mitigate being in your deck.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 10:31:04 am
I was not the one to vote Ruined Village first.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: drsteelhammer on November 03, 2015, 10:37:07 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 10:31:04 am
I was not the one to vote Ruined Village first.

That surprises me. I always get reminded of Scout when I get a ruined village
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 10:45:21 am
Quote from: drsteelhammer on November 03, 2015, 10:37:07 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 10:31:04 am
I was not the one to vote Ruined Village first.

That surprises me. I always get reminded of Scout when I get a ruined village
He's criing.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on November 03, 2015, 11:45:18 am
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

I guess Ruined Library can draw stuff dead. Especially in junking games you generally won't have too many actions lying around.

But I agree that RLibrary > AMine, I voted RLibrary second after RMarket. I'm also not sure how RMarket got anything less than 100%.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 11:48:24 am
Quote from: Aleimon Thimble on November 03, 2015, 11:45:18 am
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

I guess Ruined Library can draw stuff dead. Especially in junking games you generally won't have too many actions lying around.

But I agree that RLibrary > AMine, I voted RLibrary second after RMarket. I'm also not sure how RMarket got anything less than 100%.
Because in a game with other +buy, Ruined Market is completely useless.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: jsh357 on November 03, 2015, 11:48:47 am
I find the mine more useful in slog games where I might have ruins and other dead cards. Library is good with kings court, golem, etc, but not in general. Either way we are sorting garbage here.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on November 03, 2015, 11:53:36 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 03, 2015, 11:48:24 am
Quote from: Aleimon Thimble on November 03, 2015, 11:45:18 am
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

I guess Ruined Library can draw stuff dead. Especially in junking games you generally won't have too many actions lying around.

But I agree that RLibrary > AMine, I voted RLibrary second after RMarket. I'm also not sure how RMarket got anything less than 100%.
Because in a game with other +buy, Ruined Market is completely useless.

I think a card that is sometimes completely useless and sometimes pretty useful beats a card that is always nearly useless, which the other 4 cards all are.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: -Stef- on November 03, 2015, 11:56:24 am
Quote from: Aleimon Thimble on November 03, 2015, 11:45:18 am
I'm also not sure how RMarket got anything less than 100%.

While Ruined Market is the only ruin that has the possibility to really shine, in your average game it's just total crap.
If I was to select any of the ruins and from now on all ruins I gained every game would be that one, I certainly wouldn't pick Market.
Ruined Library would be a better choice, as would Ruined Mine and Survivors. It's even close with Ruined Village.

That said, I selected Ruined Market as #1 too. Even though it's worse than the other ruins a lot of the time, all the ruins have the "problem" that they're so bad you usually don't play them anyway. And that one-in-a-thousand games where Ruined Market actually does shine it's just too memorable.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: assemble_me on November 03, 2015, 01:01:53 pm
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

I agree by 100%. In fact, my list is the same as above except with Library and Mine swapped
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Awaclus on November 03, 2015, 01:18:09 pm
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

Not necessarily. If your deck is full of Ruins and Cultists, the +1 card on a terminal action will have a very hard time being worth more than a coin.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: markusin on November 03, 2015, 02:19:35 pm
Sometimes the Mine will help you hit a key price point like $5 when you need it most. The other Ruins don't help as much with that I don't think. Because of that I voted Mine first and Market second.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 02:24:10 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on November 03, 2015, 01:18:09 pm
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 11:22:47 am
I'm quite surprised to see Mine so high and Library so low... if you have extra actions lying around, which I wouldn't think would be that uncommon, then Library doesn't hurt you at all, while Mine is a Copper. Copper vs no card in your deck. Even if you don't have extra actions lying around, a card is generally going to be worth more than a coin isn't it?

Not necessarily. If your deck is full of Ruins and Cultists, the +1 card on a terminal action will have a very hard time being worth more than a coin.

If the +1 card gives you a ruins or estate or Curse, then you should still be glad you drew it... it's 1 more card that's not that in your hand next turn.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Awaclus on November 03, 2015, 02:28:59 pm
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 02:24:10 pm
If the +1 card gives you a ruins or estate or Curse, then you should still be glad you drew it... it's 1 more card that's not that in your hand next turn.

That's why Survivors is better than Ruined Library.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 02:33:18 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on November 03, 2015, 02:28:59 pm
Quote from: GendoIkari on November 03, 2015, 02:24:10 pm
If the +1 card gives you a ruins or estate or Curse, then you should still be glad you drew it... it's 1 more card that's not that in your hand next turn.

That's why Survivors is better than Ruined Library.

I suppose, but Survivors could also reveal a good card and a bad card, and then it's not so clear what to do.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: scott_pilgrim on November 03, 2015, 03:26:42 pm
Probably the disagreement comes from how different people understand the ranking.  If we're ranking them according to which one I'm most likely to buy, the ranking clearly goes Market>Survivors>three-way tie.  But that's a pretty silly ranking, because I'm pretty much never buying Survivors, and I'm literally never buying the other three (except for name edge cases, in which case none of them has an advantage over the others).  I think the goal of the Ruins ranking should be "If I could choose which Ruins to gain when I have to gain a Ruins, which one would I choose?".  I don't think Ruined Library wins this competition, though maybe it's close.  Really this is just another case of how much do you weight how good a card is in its best case vs. how good it is in the average case.  Ruined Library is clearly the best in its best case, no questions there.  But it's pretty bad in the average case, on par with the other ruins.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: SCSN on November 03, 2015, 03:52:06 pm
Drawing a card is better than a coin both on average and in the best case scenario. I have Ruined Library on #2, behind Ruined Market.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2015, 04:13:48 pm
Ruined market is the only ruins that makes me question playing cultist on an engine board with good trashing and no buy
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: schadd on November 03, 2015, 09:27:52 pm
keep in mind, at some point ruined market cost 5 and was called "market"
that said i had it third lmao and if i thought about it more it would be 4th rofl
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 04, 2015, 12:22:59 am
Quote from: schadd on November 03, 2015, 09:27:52 pm
keep in mind, at some point ruined market cost 5 and was called "market"
that said i had it third lmao and if i thought about it more it would be 4th rofl

Honestly, herbalist and ruined market are not that different from each other
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Limetime on November 04, 2015, 07:19:51 am
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2015, 04:13:48 pm
Ruined market is the only ruins that makes me question playing cultist on an engine board with good trashing and no buy
You should probably use cultists to dig through the ruins pile until you find a ruined market. The stop playing cultists and buy it.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 04, 2015, 06:21:11 pm
Quote from: Limetime on November 04, 2015, 07:19:51 am
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2015, 04:13:48 pm
Ruined market is the only ruins that makes me question playing cultist on an engine board with good trashing and no buy
You should probably use cultists to dig through the ruins pile until you find a ruined market. The stop playing cultists and buy it.

I did that before.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Dingan on November 03, 2016, 06:14:05 pm
I think it's funny that Ruined Market is the best Ruin, yet the +Buy token is generally regarded as the worst token.

(Mwuahahaha.. they call me The Resurrecter)
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2016, 06:20:13 pm
Actually, I would say on average +Buy token is better than +$ token. I mean, it's a nice boost to economy but gains are how you win the game.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 03, 2016, 07:28:49 pm
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2016, 06:20:13 pm
Actually, I would say on average +Buy token is better than +$ token. I mean, it's a nice boost to economy but gains are how you win the game.

Worker's Village costs $4, Bazaar costs $5. Checkmate.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on November 03, 2016, 07:39:43 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 03, 2016, 07:28:49 pm
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2016, 06:20:13 pm
Actually, I would say on average +Buy token is better than +$ token. I mean, it's a nice boost to economy but gains are how you win the game.

Worker's Village costs $4, Bazaar costs $5. Checkmate.
Poacher costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png), Market costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png). Checkmate.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: mail-mi on November 03, 2016, 07:43:00 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on November 03, 2016, 07:39:43 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 03, 2016, 07:28:49 pm
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2016, 06:20:13 pm
Actually, I would say on average +Buy token is better than +$ token. I mean, it's a nice boost to economy but gains are how you win the game.

Worker's Village costs $4, Bazaar costs $5. Checkmate.
Poacher costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png), Market costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png). Checkmate.

Bad comparison. Poacher costs $4 and has a drawback, market square costs $3 with a reaction. Checkmate.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 03, 2016, 07:44:11 pm
Quote from: ThetaSigma12 on November 03, 2016, 07:39:43 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 03, 2016, 07:28:49 pm
Quote from: Beyond Awesome on November 03, 2016, 06:20:13 pm
Actually, I would say on average +Buy token is better than +$ token. I mean, it's a nice boost to economy but gains are how you win the game.

Worker's Village costs $4, Bazaar costs $5. Checkmate.
Poacher costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png), Market costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png). Checkmate.

Um...
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: aku_chi on November 03, 2016, 08:14:46 pm
Quote from: Dingan on November 03, 2016, 06:14:05 pm
I think it's funny that Ruined Market is the best Ruin, yet the +Buy token is generally regarded as the worst token.

Well, first let's discuss why Ruined Village and Ruined Library are bad.  Every action card has an inherent -1 action, -1 card associated with it: hence, a cantrip is a do-nothing action.  An action card that only provides +1 action or +1 card is almost always worse than neutral.  A Ruined Village doesn't increase your action count, and a Ruined Library doesn't increase your handsize.  Whereas, the other Ruins offer a trade off: a poor effect for -1 action, -1 card.  Usually the effect isn't worth it, but in rare cases it might be.  Ruined Library has an additional penalty (when compared with the +card effect in general), in that terminal draw is less valuable than non-terminal draw.

So, why was Ruined Market rated higher than Abandoned Mine?

This is mostly a consequence of how people choose to evaluate the Ruins.  If you evaluate the Ruins by which you're most likely to buy, Ruined Market comes out on top (then there's a 4-way tie for last, I guess).  If you evaluate them by which you're least sad to receive (or most likely to play), Abandoned Mine is almost certainly better.  If you evaluate them by which you'd prefer to trash last... it's a bit ambiguous.

This is because +buy has more variable value than coin.  In most games, the +buy from Ruined Market is nearly worthless, because there are plenty of good sources of alternate gains, or there isn't much opportunity to buy more than one card.  In a rare few games, +buy is so valuable that even Ruined Market might be worth playing/buying.  In all games, an extra coin is meh.  You can (almost) always buy Silver, which dominates Abandoned Mine.

There is another factor, I believe.  People might overrate Ruined Market for the same reason that they overestimate how many kingdoms support an engine.  I'm not entirely sure why this is.  Perhaps people enjoy engines more, so those games are more salient.  Perhaps people ban cards or skip kingdoms that aren't engine-friendly.  Perhaps there is some signalling or groupthink involved: all the "cool" Dominion players talk about engines, so I'll think about everything (even, oddly, Ruins) in an engine context.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: JW on November 03, 2016, 08:22:50 pm
Quote from: aku_chi on November 03, 2016, 08:14:46 pm
This is because +buy has more variable value than coin.  In most games, the +buy from Ruined Market is nearly worthless, because there are plenty of good sources of alternate gains, or there isn't much opportunity to buy more than one card.  In a rare few games, +buy is so valuable that even Ruined Market might be worth playing/buying.  In all games, an extra coin is meh.  You can (almost) always buy Silver, which dominates Abandoned Mine.

Great post! Even Copper dominates Abandoned Mine (throne-effects and the like aside), since Copper doesn't use an Action.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: schadd on November 03, 2016, 08:23:40 pm
$1 < 1 buy < a lot of buys < a lot of money
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on November 04, 2016, 04:06:41 am
You guys make me so sad. For a second I thought the 2016 lists were in already. :(
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Mr Anderson on November 04, 2016, 09:23:18 am
I think the +buy token is worth less than the +Coin one because you want to put the tokens on piles you have many cards of and you don't necessarily need more than 4 buys in many cases. +8 coins and +1 buy is better than +8 buys and +1 coin.
You need only a few extra buys, and you won't get more than a couple of Ruined Markets.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Limetime on November 04, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Dame anna????
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2016, 12:39:46 am
Quote from: Limetime on November 04, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Dame anna????

Buying her on turn 1 surely never guarantees you'll ever actually play her.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Limetime on November 05, 2016, 01:04:53 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2016, 12:39:46 am
Quote from: Limetime on November 04, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Dame anna????

Buying her on turn 1 surely never guarantees you'll ever actually play her.
Ruined market is bad most of the time in turn. 1 even if it is the olny +buy.
It slows down building by two~ turns.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2016, 01:27:22 am
Quote from: Limetime on November 05, 2016, 01:04:53 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2016, 12:39:46 am
Quote from: Limetime on November 04, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Dame anna????

Buying her on turn 1 surely never guarantees you'll ever actually play her.
Ruined market is bad most of the time in turn. 1 even if it is the olny +buy.
It slows down building by two~ turns.

Of course. My statement stands though.
Title: Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: Ruins
Post by: Chris is me on November 05, 2016, 02:34:28 pm
Quote from: Limetime on November 05, 2016, 01:04:53 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2016, 12:39:46 am
Quote from: Limetime on November 04, 2016, 05:26:47 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 04, 2016, 09:29:17 am
Quote from: Chris is me on November 03, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
Basically, Ruined Market is the only Ruin that you might go "oh man, I'm so glad I have this now". The rest are just "how slightly better than a Curse is this card".

Ruined Market is probably the only card that can virtually win you the game on turn 1.
Dame anna????

Buying her on turn 1 surely never guarantees you'll ever actually play her.
Ruined market is bad most of the time in turn. 1 even if it is the olny +buy.
It slows down building by two~ turns.

The point isn't that Ruined Market starts doing workfor you the second you get it - it's that if the 1 copy on top of the pile is the only +Buy on the entire board, sometimes that wins you the game right there just by immediately buying it.