Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: market squire on July 31, 2015, 01:08:31 pm
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Hi, it looks like there will be a Promo Event card for the release of Adventures in Germany.
(Exclusively for preorders on this page: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=gruppendeal&grid=85)
All I can see is that is called "Einladung" (Invitation) and costs $5 (and it has one coin symbol in its 2-line-text).
(Edit: Changed the thread's name as the discussion is still going on)
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Is it an event card?
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
YES JSH, WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN!?
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Donald never mentioned this card. MUTINY
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
YES JSH, WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN!?
I HAVE NO IDEA LASTFOOTNOTE!!!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFIQNlxTD3w
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Is it an event card?
Yes. If you click on the link that market squire posted, you can see the promo in a wrapper in the lower-right corner of one of the images. It's definitely an Event.
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I want to hear you guys' guesses. What can you invite people to in Dominion?
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I want to hear you guys' guesses. What can you invite people to in Dominion?
/me shakes head
"The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten."
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
YES JSH, WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN!?
I HAVE NO IDEA LASTFOOTNOTE!!!
...smartypants. :P
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Hi, it looks like there will be a Promo Event card for the release of Adventures in Germany.
(Exclusively for preorders on this page: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=gruppendeal&grid=85)
All I can see is that is called "Einladung" (Invitation) and costs $5 (and it has one coin symbol in its 2-line-text).
FINALLY!
<insert shut up and take my money Fry here>
Ordered!
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Hi, it looks like there will be a Promo Event card for the release of Adventures in Germany.
(Exclusively for preorders on this page: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=gruppendeal&grid=85)
All I can see is that is called "Einladung" (Invitation) and costs $5 (and it has one coin symbol in its 2-line-text).
There is in fact a promo Event coming this fall. It will be available in English via BGG as usual, where it will be paired with Pathfinding with the art fixed (that's not a tree).
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Hooray! Now instead of paying $5 for just 11 cards, I can pay $5 for 1 card (maybe 2)!
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Hooray! Now instead of paying $5 for just 11 cards, I can pay $5 for 1 card (maybe 2)!
From my perspective, Events aren't less work than Kingdom cards, and don't contribute less game play. But if you are burning them to keep warm, then yes, there won't be as much cardboard.
However much it costs, the money that doesn't go towards shipping goes towards supporting BGG (who gets given the cards for free). If that's not a cause you're interested in, well it's easy to proxy up one card.
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Oh, I'll be buying it, and I understood all the work and whatnot.
Anyway, on to speculation! It looks like it costs either (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png) or (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png), and it has a cost in its text.
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"The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten."
I will now explain the joke to make it funnier.
There is an apocryphal story—which I first heard from my father many years ago—about the first ever Russain-English translation computer program. The story goes that, after it was completed, the first test phrase they entered was, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_spirit_is_willing_but_the_flesh_is_weak) After the program translated it from English to Russian and then back to English, the output was, "The liquor is good, but the meat is spoiled."
That seems to be more or less what has happened with this promo. The original English word has more than one meaning, and the German translators apparently decided to go with the wrong meaning, and then chose a similar word that, as near as I can determine, has a completely different connotation than even that wrong meaning. "Invitation" actually matches the effect of the Event pretty well, but it sure won't match the art.
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Maaaaaaaaaaan... now if someone else upvotes the joke, we won't know if it was because of their sprawling general culture (or huh superior Google-fu). Have you never heard of jokes as social identifiers!?
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
YES JSH, WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN!?
I HAVE NO IDEA LASTFOOTNOTE!!!
You guys are already working on the next expansion, aren'tcha?
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That seems to be more or less what has happened with this promo. The original English word has more than one meaning, and the German translators apparently decided to go with the wrong meaning, and then chose a similar word that, as near as I can determine, has a completely different connotation than even that wrong meaning. "Invitation" actually matches the effect of the Event pretty well, but it sure won't match the art.
*peruses thesaurus*
So, the Event is named Prostitute? It better combo with Harem.
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Interesting. What could this mean? And are those of us in the States invited???
YES JSH, WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN!?
I HAVE NO IDEA LASTFOOTNOTE!!!
You guys are already working on the next expansion, aren'tcha?
Honestly I was just surprised to see this promo in German before English.
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That seems to be more or less what has happened with this promo. The original English word has more than one meaning, and the German translators apparently decided to go with the wrong meaning, and then chose a similar word that, as near as I can determine, has a completely different connotation than even that wrong meaning. "Invitation" actually matches the effect of the Event pretty well, but it sure won't match the art.
*peruses thesaurus*
So, the Event is named Prostitute? It better combo with Harem.
It does appear to have a female on the artwork? Unless my eyes are trippin'
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Unless my eyes are trippin'
It could be a male prostitute as well.
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At least on my phone it looked like Snowwhite and a dwarf/garden gnome. Wonder what she's inviting him for...
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(https://40.media.tumblr.com/d0ca36303a269e977db38723af0b5263/tumblr_inline_nm6yimFWW81t19788_250.jpg)
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Was there ever a chance of... Einladung... getting into Adventures, or was it created as a Promo?
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Was there ever a chance of... Einladung... getting into Adventures, or was it created as a Promo?
Hint: There were blanks in Adventures.
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At least on my phone it looked like Snowwhite and a dwarf/garden gnome. Wonder what she's inviting him for...
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/d0ca36303a269e977db38723af0b5263/tumblr_inline_nm6yimFWW81t19788_250.jpg)
This is a problem I have with Dominion art in general. Even when looking at the actual card it's often really hard to make out the details. You have to look at a bigger size version to see it well. I couldn't see where the hag was on the Swamp hag card until I looked at a bigger version online.
In short, it's too good to be contained on the size of a Dominion card.
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Was there ever a chance of... Einladung... getting into Adventures, or was it created as a Promo?
Please save all questions until the end of the tour.
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I am very much looking forward to this. So, the preorder ends on August 23rd. When is this released in Germany? Will the US get this shortly after?
The funny thing is we might get this promo card online before Dominion Adventures.
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Woo-hoo. Something that makes it suck less to be a german Dominion fan. Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
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Woo-hoo. Something that makes it suck less to be a german Dominion fan. Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
You also won't have the flimsier card stock or the low-quality mats and tokens.
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Woo-hoo. Something that makes it suck less to be a german Dominion fan. Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
You also won't have the flimsier card stock or the low-quality mats and tokens.
Oh yes, that was the issue with Hasbro printing, right? I'm indeed glad i won't have that. Didn't know the tokens were also affected.
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Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
What about the lines from Durations? And what is the issue with Pathfinding?
Thank you!
I'm looking forward to Adventures (I'll buy it in Essen) just so I can ask my players which color they want :D
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Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
What about the lines from Durations? And what is the issue with Pathfinding?
Thank you!
Pathfinding's art doesn't take up the whole box; the left and bottom edges are black. I imagine the German version will have fixed this issue. Here's hoping, anyway.
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Now all they have to do is remove the unnecessary lines from Durations, include "correct" Pathfinding in the german box, give Events blue backs and all those months waiting will have paid off.
What about the lines from Durations? And what is the issue with Pathfinding?
Thank you!
English Duration cards just list the effect they have this turn and then the effect of the next turn. German cards divide them with a line. I think it's a problem because it makes some rules confusing, for example Procession (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Procession) (or in fact, any Throne Room (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Throne_Room) variant). In english, you can just say "everything above a line is set up once you play a card, what's below a line depends on something special". You can't do that in german.
Compare the original Merchant Ship (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Merchant_Ship) to its german version:
(http://www.dominionblog.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/200Hafen.png)
Lighthouse (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lighthouse) even becomes the only card to have two dividing lines:
(http://www.dominionblog.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Leuchtturm.jpg)
Edit: So, to make it short, if you have an english game, the "lines on durations" thing is nothing that should concern you. It's just something that has been a bit annoying over here.
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Huzzah, another card! ;D It never stops, and it never should.
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ADK said the promo was at gencon in his post in that thread. Does that mean we get to know what it is?
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ADK said the promo was at gencon in his post in that thread. Does that mean we get to know what it is?
The words "fat chance" come to mind.
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ADK said the promo was at gencon in his post in that thread. Does that mean we get to know what it is?
I think ADK could reveal it if he wanted to? Someone will soon enough. Doubt he was told not to reveal it since it was at a con.
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ADK said the promo was at gencon in his post in that thread. Does that mean we get to know what it is?
It's an event. It costs somewhere from $0 to $100 (inclusive). It does something when you buy it. On boards where the thing that it does is good it's worth buying. There are boards where the thing that it does is good.
We weren't specifically told not to reveal it, but I don't see any reason to give it away. Have some patience!
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...anyone else go to gencon? ;)
I like how you didn't say that there are boards where the thing that it does is bad.
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In Dominion the distinction between "bad" and "not good" is pretty fine.
Also, I don't know how the German publisher got to "Invitation" from "Hot Air Balloon."
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He also didn't rule out that it will be the first card with a triple-digit cost.
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ADK said the promo was at gencon in his post in that thread. Does that mean we get to know what it is?
Hmmm... nothing on BGG so far... and nothing from Google trawls, either...
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Wha??? I wish someone told me the card was at Gen Con. I could have gotten someone to get me a copy of the card. I'm surprised no one mentioned it. I guess no one was expecting a promo so no one noticed. lol
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Wha??? I wish someone told me the card was at Gen Con. I could have gotten someone to get me a copy of the card. I'm surprised no one mentioned it. I guess no one was expecting a promo so no one noticed. lol
It was only in the final round of the tournament, which they were very strict about letting spectators into (probably because it was there). They also weren't giving it away, just letting us play with it.
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Wha??? I wish someone told me the card was at Gen Con. I could have gotten someone to get me a copy of the card. I'm surprised no one mentioned it. I guess no one was expecting a promo so no one noticed. lol
It was only in the final round of the tournament, which they were very strict about letting spectators into (probably because it was there). They also weren't giving it away, just letting us play with it.
Ah! That's pretty cool.
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That seems to be more or less what has happened with this promo. The original English word has more than one meaning, and the German translators apparently decided to go with the wrong meaning, and then chose a similar word that, as near as I can determine, has a completely different connotation than even that wrong meaning. "Invitation" actually matches the effect of the Event pretty well, but it sure won't match the art.
Hmm... So, what could the original be, then... "Load up"? "Include"? "Annexation"? "Link-up"?
The image looks like a guy/woman at a window. "One day lad, all this will be yours!". I'll just make a random guess: It includes more cards into the game.
Also, hooray, the german translation is rubbish, being german sucks again, the world is in order... Damned. :-\
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http://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/3fobgo/new_promo_event_at_gencon/
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http://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/3fobgo/new_promo_event_at_gencon/
From the link: Summon(5 cost) Gain a card costing up to 4 and set it aside. At the start of your next turn play the set aside card.
Update:
Summon: Event, $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4. Set it aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
When-gain effects trigger. Remember lose-track just stops cards from being moved, it doesn't stop other things from happening. The Summoned card can end up in the wrong place, in which case the "if you do" will fail.
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So, I would have named the German version "Herbeizaubern". Is that correct, native German speakers?
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I'm guessing that card gets discarded at the end of the turn after buying Summon?
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I'm guessing that card gets discard at the end of the turn after buying Summon?
Well since it says "play it", why wouldn't it?
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I'm guessing that card gets discard at the end of the turn after buying Summon?
Well since it says "play it", why wouldn't it?
Just checking. Seems neat. Open (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)/(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png), Summon a Sea Hag or Marauder or Ambassador. If you can drop Ferry on Cultist, Summoning them seems better than just straight buying them.
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What happens if you summon silver or another treasure card?
Do when-gain effects ever trigger? I would guess no. Whoops, though it was set aside immediately, not gained first. So then is there a possible lose-track thing with on-gain effects where it doesn't get topdecked? set-aside? (answered: yes, and then it would not be played either)
Best T1 summons sound like remake or ambassador to me. Or even... potion on an appthecary board. Woah.
Otherwise, this could be a really common buy, like every single turn for a while on boards with weak 5s.
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What happens if you summon silver or another treasure card?
I'm guessing the full text actually says Action card.
Do when-gain effects ever trigger? I would guess no.
Of course they would. Why wouldn't they?
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So, I would have named the German version "Herbeizaubern". Is that correct, native German speakers?
That is a possible and good translation.
Another possible translation would have been "Beschwörung" (Summoning) or "Beschwören" (to summon), which also is a term used in magic, just like "Herbeizaubern". Both are fine and would have been, like, 100% better than "Einladung".
Man, Einladung. I don't even know what to say. It literally means "Invitation".
I mean, from what I can gather from that tiny picture, it shows someone using magic. And yet, they call it "Einladung". Now that's just silly. I have only met one wizard so far inviting fireballs rather than summoning them, and let me tell you, wow, weird guy.
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Would anyone be interested in playing with Summon in a game over Skype?
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So, I would have named the German version "Herbeizaubern". Is that correct, native German speakers?
Yes, that name or "Beschwören" or "Herbeirufen" would have been ok. But "Einladung" again is a weird translation as many others in this series.
OK, Eistee was faster. ;)
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SUMMON DISTANT LANDS
With cost reduction, of course.
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Seconding "Beschwörung". "Herbeizaubern" is technically correct, but sound more like "make appear" than actually summoning. I really wonder how somebody could get that wrong. Maybe they didn't see the art and thought is was more of a "call the guys together because we need to meet" summon?
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And now there has to be that one parallel universe in which creatures in the German version of "Magic: The Gathering" are invited rather than summoned.
That's just awesome.
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Otherwise, this could be a really common buy, like every single turn for a while on boards with weak 5s.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1217197.jpg)
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Otherwise, this could be a really common buy, like every single turn for a while on boards with weak 5s.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1217197.jpg)
Or the Death Carts.
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What happens if you summon silver or another treasure card?
Do when-gain effects ever trigger? I would guess no. Whoops, though it was set aside immediately, not gained first. So then is there a possiblr lose-track thing with on-gain effects where it doesn't get topdecked?
It only gains Actions.
Summon: Event, $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4. Set it aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
When-gain effects trigger. Remember lose-track just stops cards from being moved, it doesn't stop other things from happening. The Summoned card can end up in the wrong place, in which case the "if you do" will fail.
Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
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(http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150805/54ca6j9q.jpg)
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(http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150805/54ca6j9q.jpg)
This made me think of a better version of my previous one:
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1217772.jpg)
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
Whoa, congrats LF! You are now officially better than all other fan card designers.
/jokes ;)
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Very nice event. I like how you technically never gain the card.
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Very nice event. I like how you technically never gain the card.
Of course you do, it's right there: "Gain an Action card".
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Very nice event. I like how you technically never gain the card.
Of course you do, it's right there: "Gain an Action card".
Duh! I was too focused on the whole set aside thing.
Anyway, this is pretty nice opening with Chapel, even better than Travelling Fair since you are guaranteed to hit all three estates.
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.
My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
My experience is "most things," as long as you don't have a better $5 card option. Playing a card now is usually better than playing it later. Tracking your deck helps for some things, like trashers. You can also use it as a crappy one-shot Village if there's a +1 Action card in the kingdom. Like Prince, cards that draw are obviously great to have at the start of your turn, but unlike Prince, you have to shuffle the card in later so it's nice to get something nonterminal. Overall, a lot of considerations that are board dependent.
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You can be pro, play two Highways, and get a free Goons.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
My experience is "most things," as long as you don't have a better $5 card option. Playing a card now is usually better than playing it later. Tracking your deck helps for some things, like trashers. You can also use it as a crappy one-shot Village if there's a +1 Action card in the kingdom. Like Prince, cards that draw are obviously great to have at the start of your turn, but unlike Prince, you have to shuffle the card in later so it's nice to get something nonterminal. Overall, a lot of considerations that are board dependent.
Okay, now I'm certain you guys are canoodling over a tenth expansion. I'm doubtful that you'd get everybody together just to playtest one Promo Event.
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If anyone is wondering what this got used in the GenCon tourney for this year, I mainly used it as a counter to Haunted Woods and Swamp Hag whose attacks trigger on a buy, or in kingdoms containing a miser as a way of spending $5 now to get however many coppers I have on my tavern mat next turn.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
Transmogrify is good.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
Transmogrify is good.
Basically any Reserve card. Either they're terminal, or they call at the start of your turn.
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.
My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.
(And Courtyard?)
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.
My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.
(And Courtyard?)
That's right, that was a thing. And Dame Josephine made Counting House.
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Also LastFootnote came up with this card!
And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.
My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.
(And Courtyard?)
That's right, that was a thing. And Dame Josephine made Counting House.
How about "non-inner-circle playtesters."
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Summon fact of the day: it decreases Lord Bottington's optimal solitaire session by one turn (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9720.msg515456#msg515456).
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Seconding "Beschwörung". "Herbeizaubern" is technically correct, but sound more like "make appear" than actually summoning. I really wonder how somebody could get that wrong. Maybe they didn't see the art and thought is was more of a "call the guys together because we need to meet" summon?
"Einbestellung" would have been a good German translation, probably the one I like the most.
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Otherwise, this could be a really common buy, like every single turn for a while on boards with weak 5s.
Yes. But scrap that 'for a while' and 'with weak 5s'.
My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
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My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
Have you played any games with the final version yet?
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I've realized this is essentially a one-shot Prince. It turns a non-terminal into a village and a card like smithy essentially nets you an extra card while not eating up an action slot. Yah, this seems pretty good.
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I've realized this is essentially a one-shot Prince. It turns a non-terminal into a village and a card like smithy essentially nets you an extra card while not eating up an action slot. Yah, this seems pretty good.
It's just like when you reveal an Action card with Herald. So you're kind of getting +2 cards +2 actions next turn and guaranteed to have at least 1 $4 Action card to play. Not bad.
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My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
Have you played any games with the final version yet?
No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.
And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.
All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
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My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
Have you played any games with the final version yet?
No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.
And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.
All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?
Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.
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Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.
A summons is a command. An invitation is a request.
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Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.
Also, I think "summon" is more like ordering someone to come, while the German "einladen" is used pretty much the same way as "invite".
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My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
Have you played any games with the final version yet?
No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.
And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.
All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?
Maybe I wouldn't say 90% vs. 10%, but I'm inclined to agree with Stef on this one. I'd say it's "over 50% vs. under 50%".
Every Action card in Dominion is measured against the cost of drawing it and playing it. It costs a card to draw it and a card to play it. Every deck in Dominion can be measured against how quickly it can play the cards it gains. There are cards that aren't really all that great, but become much better because of their ability to cycle your deck to play your important cards more often in the early game.
When you Summon something, you're fast-forwarding to play that card "immediately." This is so incredibly good. Some decks can be sped up as much as two or three turns just by this effect. That is so incredibly good.
Also, the first time you get to play it, you're eliminating that cost of a card and an action. This is so incredibly good. Every single card in Dominion that you can possibly Summon needs to be thought of in a different light (namely, the same light we though of cards under Prince) for a turn, for an effect you get "immediately". Prince of anything is so incredibly good, Summoning anything is so incredibly good and you can have it "immediately".
Do I sound like a broken record when I say "so incredibly good"? It's so easy to underestimate how incredibly good this effect is, particularly on the first six turns of the game.
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I proxied this card and played two games with it yesterday. I think Summon was used a total of three times. Those moments were key but obviously few and far-between.
I am absolutely not a top-level player (duh) so I tentatively think this might be one of the higher-skill cards?
forming opinions based on two games, this is always a good idea
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My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
Have you played any games with the final version yet?
No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.
And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.
All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?
Maybe I wouldn't say 90% vs. 10%, but I'm inclined to agree with Stef on this one. I'd say it's "over 50% vs. under 50%".
Every Action card in Dominion is measured against the cost of drawing it and playing it. It costs a card to draw it and a card to play it. Every deck in Dominion can be measured against how quickly it can play the cards it gains. There are cards that aren't really all that great, but become much better because of their ability to cycle your deck to play your important cards more often in the early game.
When you Summon something, you're fast-forwarding to play that card "immediately." This is so incredibly good. Some decks can be sped up as much as two or three turns just by this effect. That is so incredibly good.
Also, the first time you get to play it, you're eliminating that cost of a card and an action. This is so incredibly good. Every single card in Dominion that you can possibly Summon needs to be thought of in a different light (namely, the same light we though of cards under Prince) for a turn, for an effect you get "immediately". Prince of anything is so incredibly good, Summoning anything is so incredibly good and you can have it "immediately".
Do I sound like a broken record when I say "so incredibly good"? It's so easy to underestimate how incredibly good this effect is, particularly on the first six turns of the game.
This is a very interesting analysis. On one hand, buying Summon every time you have $5 means completely ignoring any $5s in the Kingdom. Skipping Witch (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Witch), Cultist (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cultist), Rebuild (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Rebuild), Wharf (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wharf), etc. On the other hand, it adds "+1 action, +1 card" to the $4 that you choose for the first time it's played (as well as playing it sooner). Meaning that the $4s become stronger, probably as good as the $5s you're skipping.
I wonder if it's weaker as an opener, with the obvious exception of gaining good trashers. One of the great advantages of gaining a card with it is that a gained terminal becomes non-terminal for the first play, and a gained non-terminal becomes a Village for the first play. But this doesn't help you on turn 2, and isn't likely to help you on turn 3 either. So part of the strength of the event isn't being utilized when you buy it in the opening. So it would become more dependent upon how good the card you gained with it is normally.
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I'm not saying that I'm an expert or anything but of the four games I played with it at GenCon:
Game One- Engine game with cheap components (Menagerie, Hamlet), I was reliably drawing my deck so it usually felt like the better move was to buy multiple components rather than summon one, or to buy $5 cards like Haunted Woods. I don't think I bought summon at all this game.
Game Two- Storyteller board with Miser and Ratcatcher for trashing, Market Square and Treasure Trove for Gold gaining. Again, whenever I had five buying more Stortellers and Treasure Troves seemed like the higher priority. I definitely didn't buy summon. I got second, but no one else used summon either.
Game Three- No +actions, I played BM/Gear. I did buy summon once, to summon a Warehouse at a moment when I knew my deck needed sifting, but it was a hard call between that and Duchy.
Game Four- Heavy engine board with Peasant, Colony, lots of other stuff. I summoned a Peasant on the second shuffle, I also put my -$2 token on Lost City and summoned that a few times. But again, a lot of the time it felt like a better move to spread out my buys between multiple components rather than summon one.
Summon seems like it's strong, but I'm not sure it's going to be an auto-buy on a lot of boards.
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Well, back when Dark Ages was playtested, people also didn't commit to Rebuild, and somehow somebody who didn't commit to Rebuild won. That failed to show committing to Rebuild wasn't a dominant strategy.
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So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.
Transmogrify is good.
Basically any Reserve card. Either they're terminal, or they call at the start of your turn.
Oh, right, immediately calling a card like Ratcatcher actually works. Nice.
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No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.
And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.
All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
Uh, it's probably fine if you talk about the previous versions. Man. We know the card. When Adventures was getting previewed and the playtesters were saying what they thought of each card, it felt to me like, aren't people missing some joy of discovery here? But really a lot of people wouldn't see the posts, and a lot of the people who did would see lots of posts in-between when the set came out and they got it. I guess you could spoiler that stuff. You are to some degree spoiling card analysis for the people who will get the card ASAP.
I agree that, if Summon turns out to be in some sense overpowered, it's not so bad. It's the kind of thing that probably won't be hated by very many people; it makes you play more with the cheaper cards but that's not making things boring.
Stef was the one who figured out that the original or maybe 2nd version was crazy. It was $1-$2, buy an action card (so, paying the cost of the card but being able to get more expensive stuff), play it next turn. The current version is trying to be fixed, so that you will in fact not always buy it. I don't know how it will end up for serious players, but I don't see typical players just passing up good $5's constantly.
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I'm guessing FAQ and Secret History will go up when it's available on BGG?
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I'm guessing FAQ and Secret History will go up when it's available on BGG?
I like to wait on the Secret History until the product is available. The FAQ might show up on the RGG site before then; I don't remember how that goes. I haven't actually written the FAQ so feel free to offer up your confusion.
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When Adventures was getting previewed and the playtesters were saying what they thought of each card, it felt to me like, aren't people missing some joy of discovery here? But really a lot of people wouldn't see the posts, and a lot of the people who did would see lots of posts in-between when the set came out and they got it. I guess you could spoiler that stuff. You are to some degree spoiling card analysis for the people who will get the card ASAP.
This is true to some extent, the main reason I did that is because a lot of people asked for it. Other games like Hearthstone have streamers giving their opinions on cards before they're released -- some people like to watch that stuff, others prefer to figure it out on their own.
If people take me more seriously because I had more reps with the card when it came out, well that's their mistake :P It's all just my opinion.
And I certainly don't think Summon is overpowered -- its effect is really good but it's certainly interactive so I can't see people disliking the card because it's "too good". I do think that people underestimate its potential, though. You can do some really really good stuff with it that's much better than it appears when you consider all of the benefits you get.
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Donald never mentioned this card. MUTINY
MUTINY! CONSPIRACY!! CHEM TRAILS! BLACK HELICOPTERS!! AAAAAAAARGH
lol
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Kind of illustrates how much bigger the fifth coin is than the fourth coin, doesn't it?
Woodcutter's a $3 card. Adding one coin gets you Nomad Camp—i.e. $4 puts the $3 card in your hand next turn.
Adding one coin to a $4 card gets you Summon—instead of putting the $4 card in your hand next turn, the fifth coin will play that card for you for free.
$5 is a much bigger step over $4 than $4 is over $3.
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This is true to some extent, the main reason I did that is because a lot of people asked for it. Other games like Hearthstone have streamers giving their opinions on cards before they're released -- some people like to watch that stuff, others prefer to figure it out on their own.
Obv. anyone watching the video knows what they're getting into. I'd hate to have to highlight a spoilered video.
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I was thinking about what might be the most useless cards to Summon. Ruins are obvious, but other than that, probably Feast?
Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
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Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
You want a Duchy, but you want to wait to get it until after you've reshuffled.
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Well, back when Dark Ages was playtested, people also didn't commit to Rebuild, and somehow somebody who didn't commit to Rebuild won. That failed to show committing to Rebuild wasn't a dominant strategy.
I would like to think that Rebuild taught playtesters that "Always spam this card, no matter how insane that seems" is a playtesting step all cards should go through. I have faith.
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Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
You want a Duchy, but you want to wait to get it until after you've reshuffled.
You want to help activate your Conspirators.
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I was thinking about what might be the most useless cards to Summon. Ruins are obvious, but other than that, probably Feast?
Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
I was aware there were edge cases when i made that meme. Some more:
Contraband, Embargo, Swamp Hag, Haunted Woods, Market Square
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I was thinking about what might be the most useless cards to Summon. Ruins are obvious, but other than that, probably Feast?
Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
I was aware there were edge cases when i made that meme. Some more:
Contraband, Embargo, Swamp Hag, Haunted Woods, Market Square
Knights/Peddler/Horn of Plenty. Also I thought it didn't work with treasures
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I was thinking about what might be the most useless cards to Summon. Ruins are obvious, but other than that, probably Feast?
Edge cases in which you would actually want to Summon Feast:
You want an Ill-Gotten Gains, but you know your opponent has Trader or Watchtower in hand.
You want an Embassy, but you want to wait to get it until your opponent reshuffles (or you know they have Watchtower in hand).
You want to get an Inn and use its on-gain ability at the start of next turn.
You want to prevent your opponent from Smuggling your nice new Mountebank.
I was aware there were edge cases when i made that meme. Some more:
Contraband, Embargo, Swamp Hag, Haunted Woods, Market Square
Knights/Peddler/Horn of Plenty. Also I thought it didn't work with treasures
Contraband, Embargo, Swamp Hag and Haunted Woods all limit your options on buying cards. Using Summon and Feast means that you can avoid buying a card at all.
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Also, if you aren't going to reshuffle in the current cleanup, and there's not other weird stuff going on, there simply no reason not to summons a feast if there's a $5 you want to buy. Swag points FTTW.
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Or if you're trying to empty the feast pile but want to not have them in your deck and get $5s instead.
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Obviously the most interesting strategic discussion about Summon is when you should or should not summon a Feast.
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I notice that there is no "Once per turn" clause, which might turn Summon into a bit of a megaturn enabler.
For example, Summoning multiple draw cards simultaneously would be excellent, as would cards with effects that self-synergize like the Bridge family.
Are there any Summon targets that will let a player re-purchase summon on a consistent basis? There are numerous cheap actions that can easily generate $5, but some (like Secret Chamber) aren't worth buying over and over again.
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Obviously the most interesting strategic discussion about Summon is when you should or should not summon a Feast.
The Bike-Shed Effect in action. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality)
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Any idea when this might slide onto BGG for sale?
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Any idea when this might slide onto BGG for sale?
I don't have a date. I think they've been printed. Probably they go by boat (it's not like we're in a rush to get it out), and that takes a while. I don't know how long but a while. I don't want to make a guess that won't be any more informed than that.
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Also, if you aren't going to reshuffle in the current cleanup, and there's not other weird stuff going on, there simply no reason not to summons a feast if there's a $5 you want to buy. Swag points FTTW.
Well it's not just that. If you know you're not going to reshuffle, you might Summon a Feast to deliberately put off choosing which ≤$5 card you gain until each other player has taken another turn.
Prior to this thread, I considered Summoning a Feast to be pointless, but I'm no longer sure it's even an edge case.
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It does run down the feast pile, which may be relevant to 3-pile endings.
Prior to this thread, I considered Summoning a Feast to be pointless, but I'm no longer sure it's even an edge case.
Yeah, the interaction is actually pretty good - with Summon on the board, Feast will probably be bought (technically only gained) quite a bit.
Can't wait to buy Summons.
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It does run down the feast pile, which may be relevant to 3-pile endings.
Prior to this thread, I considered Summoning a Feast to be pointless, but I'm no longer sure it's even an edge case.
Yeah, the interaction is actually pretty good - with Summon on the board, Feast will probably be bought (technically only gained) quite a bit.
Can't wait to buy Summons.
If there are no better targets to summon. But i agree, waiting until your next turn to choose the <(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) you get is (under certain conditions) simply better than buying it directly. Huh, didn't expect that.
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My Copy of Adventures just arrived so I will share the card art with you:
(http://i.imgur.com/2JLbA66.jpg)
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My Copy of Adventures just arrived so I will share the card art with you:
(http://i.imgur.com/2JLbA66.jpg)
They left out the "if you did". Oops!
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I choose you, Butterfree!
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I am irked that the Germans are getting something before the Americans.
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Be comforted by the fact that we also got Adventures today, which is like 2 or 3 full Hunting Party Games on the new client after you guys got to play with it.
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Also be comforted that the English version will have the correct wording.
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Now that is some A+ art right there.
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My Copy of Adventures just arrived so I will share the card art with you:
(http://i.imgur.com/2JLbA66.jpg)
Love the art. Can't wait for the Secret History
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I am irked that the Germans are getting something before the Americans.
Is this a serious complaint? Because if so, I can't understand why. :-\
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I am irked that the Germans are getting something before the Americans.
Seriously? I have waited months for Adventures to become available and won't be able to lay my hands on it before the end of the month, and you complain because you are envious that somebody gets a single event card, which you could easily proxy if you absolutely wanted to, before you do?
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Love the art. Can't wait for the Secret History
The artist drew a sketch of a wizard in a forest shooting out a stream of butterflies. I said looks good. Then he did another sketch, the woman in that place, conjuring the weird thing from Transmogrify. I said well it's fine but I also liked the first sketch. Then he did a polished version. I said well the weird thing is weird and mentioned the butterflies again. He replaced it with a butterfly.
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I am irked that the Germans are getting something before the Americans.
Is this a serious complaint? Because if so, I can't understand why. :-\
Exactly. I am just glad we are getting another promo. Who cares if Germany gets it before the US?
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I'm surprised so many of you like the art so much. I though cubism was a matter of the past. But seriously, it reminds me of "Der Blaue Reiter", or Franz Marc, to be specific. I don't really dislike it, but i don't understand why it's so super-amazing.
Also this translation is terrible. I have to assume the translators didn't know the art, but even then "Einladung" fits NONE of the meanings of summon ("Vorladung" or "Einbestellung", maybe). Adventures having a fantasy theme should have been a hint, too.
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They also could have asked instead of guessed.
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The artist drew a sketch of a wizard in a forest shooting out a stream of butterflies. I said looks good. Then he did another sketch, the woman in that place, conjuring the weird thing from Transmogrify. I said well it's fine but I also liked the first sketch. Then he did a polished version. I said well the weird thing is weird and mentioned the butterflies again. He replaced it with a butterfly.
I assumed it was "summon" as in "the king summons you" not "summon" as in "Summon Greater Fish." Now that you mention it the card art makes more sense.
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So... when's the English version coming out?
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So... when's the English version coming out?
It's in the store now on BGG.
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It's in the store now on BGG.
Or come compete in the Michigan Tournament (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13941.msg527301#msg527301), where I will be giving them out to all entrants!
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Cannot place order, conditions not met:
Must have at least $4 in total.
:(
Hope a local game store in the Bay Area has it.
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Cannot place order, conditions not met:
Must have at least $4 in total.
:(
Hope a local game store in the Bay Area has it.
You could just add some other stuff to the order? Dominion blank cards, any other Dominion promos you might be missing, promos for other games you have, actual new games, or even just some metal cubes or something?
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Placed my order, adding the Kingdom Builder Island thing to get it over $4, confirmed it... put in the wrong town name. >.< How quickly do they usually reply via email?
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Cannot place order, conditions not met:
Must have at least $4 in total.
:(
Hope a local game store in the Bay Area has it.
You could just add some other stuff to the order? Dominion blank cards, any other Dominion promos you might be missing, promos for other games you have, actual new games, or even just some metal cubes or something?
haha. yeah, now that wero. mentioned Kingdom Builder promo, I might get it. I already have all Dominion promos.
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Also, does this mean we get a FAQ and Secret History now?
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I (foolishly?) ordered the Kingdom Builder Island promo last night, before I knew Summon was/would be available. I added a set of Dominion blanks to my Summon order; can't have too many of those.
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So I got my copy of Summon, and it did not come with a FAQ. Where might it be found?
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So I got my copy of Summon, and it did not come with a FAQ. Where might it be found?
Just on the off-chance that there isn't one yet, what do you think are the kinds of things you might frequently ask?
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So I got my copy of Summon, and it did not come with a FAQ. Where might it be found?
Just on the off-chance that there isn't one yet, what do you think are the kinds of things you might frequently ask?
-what happens if I Watchtower the card
-do I resolve Durations/call Reserves before or after it
-what if I used Bridge to Summon an expensive card
-can I Summon on a Mission turn
-who gets the card during Possession
-what if I'm Possessed after I Summon it
-what if the game ends between the turn I Summoned it and the next (if it's a Victory card)
-does the Summoned card count as a card in play for Peddler
-what if the Summoned card has on-gain stuff
-what if the Summoned card has on-buy stuff
Note, I'm pretty sure I know the answers to these questions, but others might not.
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Gosh, does that activate on-buy effects like for example Messenger?
Does it use up my action for next turn?
What if I trash the summoned card with say Watch tower?
Why a butterfly?
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Q: How do I get my own fan card published as an official promo?
A: No.
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I don't know whether there is a FAQ. But if there is and Wero gets his hands on it, i count on it being on the wiki half an hour later.
You can take this as appreciation as well as as me poking fun. Best both.
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When will we get the next expansion?
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Hmm. By my current interpretation of the rules, neither Death Cart nor Border Village can be properly Summoned, the way the Event is worded.
* Gain an Action card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).
- Okay, I gain a Death Cart. That goes into my discard pile, and two Ruins get thrown on top of it.
* Set it aside.
- Set what aside? All I see in my discard pile is a Ruins. I must have lost track of something...
* If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
- Play what?
EDIT: This is similar to how, with Border Village, after I gain it, I choose whether to gain the other card or to reveal Watchtower first. If I choose to gain the other card first, that goes on top of Border Village, which I've now lost track of, and can neither trash nor top-deck with Watchtower.
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Hmm. By my current interpretation of the rules, neither Death Cart nor Border Village can be properly Summoned, the way the Event is worded.
* Gain an Action card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).
- Okay, I gain a Death Cart. That goes into my discard pile, and two Ruins get thrown on top of it.
* Set it aside.
- Set what aside? All I see in my discard pile is a Ruins. I must have lost track of something...
* If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
- Play what?
EDIT: This is similar to how, with Border Village, after I gain it, I choose whether to gain the other card or to reveal Watchtower first. If I choose to gain the other card first, that goes on top of Border Village, which I've now lost track of, and can neither trash nor top-deck with Watchtower.
You can play a card even if it's not where expected, as you can see with Throne Room/Feast. The reason is that lose track only applies to moving things, but while playing usually implies moving, it's not depending on it. Trashing the Death Cart on the other hand requires moving it, which will become impossible after gaining the Ruins. Therefore, using Summon to play Death Cart will simply give you a lot of money and the chance to trash a junk action next turn.
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Hmm. By my current interpretation of the rules, neither Death Cart nor Border Village can be properly Summoned, the way the Event is worded.
* Gain an Action card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).
- Okay, I gain a Death Cart. That goes into my discard pile, and two Ruins get thrown on top of it.
* Set it aside.
- Set what aside? All I see in my discard pile is a Ruins. I must have lost track of something...
* If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
- Play what?
EDIT: This is similar to how, with Border Village, after I gain it, I choose whether to gain the other card or to reveal Watchtower first. If I choose to gain the other card first, that goes on top of Border Village, which I've now lost track of, and can neither trash nor top-deck with Watchtower.
You can play a card even if it's not where expected, as you can see with Throne Room/Feast. The reason is that lose track only applies to moving things, but while playing usually implies moving, it's not depending on it. Trashing the Death Cart on the other hand requires moving it, which will become impossible after gaining the Ruins. Therefore, using Summon to play Death Cart will simply give you a lot of money and the chance to trash a junk action next turn.
But from Summon's wording, you only play the card if you do move it, if it is set aside. If the card is not set aside, it is not played.
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Hmm. By my current interpretation of the rules, neither Death Cart nor Border Village can be properly Summoned, the way the Event is worded.
* Gain an Action card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).
- Okay, I gain a Death Cart. That goes into my discard pile, and two Ruins get thrown on top of it.
* Set it aside.
- Set what aside? All I see in my discard pile is a Ruins. I must have lost track of something...
* If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
- Play what?
EDIT: This is similar to how, with Border Village, after I gain it, I choose whether to gain the other card or to reveal Watchtower first. If I choose to gain the other card first, that goes on top of Border Village, which I've now lost track of, and can neither trash nor top-deck with Watchtower.
You can play a card even if it's not where expected, as you can see with Throne Room/Feast. The reason is that lose track only applies to moving things, but while playing usually implies moving, it's not depending on it. Trashing the Death Cart on the other hand requires moving it, which will become impossible after gaining the Ruins. Therefore, using Summon to play Death Cart will simply give you a lot of money and the chance to trash a junk action next turn.
But from Summon's wording, you only play the card if you do move it, if it is set aside. If the card is not set aside, it is not played.
Dammit, i was coming from the german version in this thread. Well, seems like we found a case where that mistranslation matters.
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Also, if you call a Duplicate on a Summoned card, it can't be set aside. And Inn can't be Summoned if you decide to shuffle it into your deck (which would be silly).
Also, rules question: can you call Duplicate when there's no other copy of the card to gain? I've no idea why you would, it would do nothing (well, it would get more Actions in play for Peddler), but can you? Basically call it, try and fail to gain a card.
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Also, rules question: can you call Duplicate when there's no other copy of the card to gain? I've no idea why you would, it would do nothing (well, it would get more Actions in play for Peddler), but can you? Basically call it, try and fail to gain a card.
Yes, nowhere in Dominion is an effect limited in that way. All that matters is meeting the condition; then you try your best to do whatever it says to do.
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I finally played with this card irl. It's pretty strong
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
I believe Donald has confirmed this elsewhere, and that the Summoned card does indeed visit the discard pile (or the top of your deck in the case of Nomad Camp).
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
I believe Donald has confirmed this elsewhere, and that the Summoned card does indeed visit the discard pile (or the top of your deck in the case of Nomad Camp).
So I'm right that Death Cart can't be set aside by Summon unless the Ruins pile is empty?
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
I believe Donald has confirmed this elsewhere, and that the Summoned card does indeed visit the discard pile (or the top of your deck in the case of Nomad Camp).
So I'm right that Death Cart can't be set aside by Summon unless the Ruins pile is empty?
Seems that way to me.
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
I believe Donald has confirmed this elsewhere, and that the Summoned card does indeed visit the discard pile (or the top of your deck in the case of Nomad Camp).
So I'm right that Death Cart can't be set aside by Summon unless the Ruins pile is empty?
Seems that way to me.
Hmm. So what sort of things were you trying to avoid by not just making it "gain a card and set it aside" and have it Not Visit?
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I guess the questions here is, which rule applies: Lose Track, or No Visiting? If the Summoned card Visits the discard pile, then if you Summon a Death Cart, it will be covered by its gained Ruins, and be Lost Track of. But if it doesn't Visit, and goes straight to set-aside land, then Death Cart will be played at the start of your next turn if Summoned.
I'm inclined to think it's the former, given that "gain" and "set aside" are separate sentences on the Event.
I believe Donald has confirmed this elsewhere, and that the Summoned card does indeed visit the discard pile (or the top of your deck in the case of Nomad Camp).
So I'm right that Death Cart can't be set aside by Summon unless the Ruins pile is empty?
Seems that way to me.
Hmm. So what sort of things were you trying to avoid by not just making it "gain a card and set it aside" and have it Not Visit?
I'm not sure there was any consideration other than maybe breaking it up into two sentences. It's not so bad that it doesn't worth on Death Cart, though I think it would be nice if it did. Probably some IRL groups will make the mistake of thinking they can do it, but I don't think it's ruining those games.
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Probably some IRL groups will make the mistake of thinking they can do it, but I don't think it's ruining those games.
The great thing about IRL games is that you can houserule anything you want. And this is exactly the sort of thing I'd houserule.
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Hmm. So what sort of things were you trying to avoid by not just making it "gain a card and set it aside" and have it Not Visit?
It's not intentional other than via trying to have a nice readable card phrasing. I do not consider every possible way of communicating effects; I try to find a good way and if I have one then there it is. This "issue" didn't come up.
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Just bought this at bgg.con. Kind of funny to spend $5 on a single card (not a set of 10); plus one that physically owning it has no impact on your ability to play with it. But totally worth it anyway!
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So I'm late to the party (typical seasonal obsession) and just found out about this. [Though, a little bummed to find out it doesn't come with a fixed Pathfinding.]
I see this being quite useful in many games, with the number of good $3 and $4 engine parts.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/3fobgo/new_promo_event_at_gencon/
From the link: Summon(5 cost) Gain a card costing up to 4 and set it aside. At the start of your next turn play the set aside card.
Update:
Summon: Event, $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4. Set it aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
I notice that Summon does not say "from the supply". So does that mean that you can use it to gain a Traveller that costs under $4 or less, or a Madman, or a Mercenary?
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I notice that Summon does not say "from the supply". So does that mean that you can use it to gain a Traveller that costs under $4 or less, or a Madman, or a Mercenary?
No. Card gains are always from the Supply unless otherwise specified. Note how Workshop doesn't say "from the Supply" either.
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-who gets the card during Possession
This is the most interesting question. I guess Possession's when-would-gain works like Trader's. If I'm Possessed and buy Summon, I don't gain the card, instead the Possessor gains it. So there is no "it" to set aside (blue dog territory). So it will not be played at the start of my next turn (and we don't have to wonder if/how I would play it if it's in my opponent's set-aside area). And so nobody wants to Possess someone and make them buy Summon.
Correct?
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So... are we going to be getting an official FAQ at some point?
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I'll take a crack at writing one, since it is my promo.
When you buy this, you gain an Action card costing up to $4 from the Supply and set it aside face up. If you did set it aside, then at the start of your next turn, play that Action card. This doesn't use up your default Action for the turn. In order to remember to play the card on your next turn, you may want to turn it sideways or diagonally, turning it right side up when you play it. If you move the Action card after you gain it but before you set it aside (e.g. by putting it on top of your deck with Watchtower, from Dominion: Prosperity), then Summon will "lose track" of it and be unable to set it aside; in that case you will not play it at the start of your next turn. If you use Summon to gain a Nomad Camp (from Dominion: Hinterlands), Summon will know to find the Nomad Camp on your deck, so you will set it aside in that case (unless you have moved it elsewhere via another ability).