Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion: Adventures Previews => Topic started by: Seprix on May 08, 2015, 09:45:30 pm
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(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) Coin of the Realm, Page, Peasant, Ratcatcher, Raze
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png) Amulet, Caravan Guard, Dungeon, Gear, Guide
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) Duplicate, Magpie, Messenger, Miser, Port, Ranger, Transmogrify
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) Artificer, Bridge Troll, Distant Lands, Giant, Haunted Woods, Lost City, Relic, Royal Carriage, Storyteller, Swamp Hag, Treasure Trove, Wine Merchant
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Hireling
The entire listing of all cards by their respective cost. I am not ranking Events here, I think I will create a separate thread for that. The question here is thus: Which cards are going to be stronger/more useful than others on their own? Can you create a general list of best to worst Adventures cards in order? I'll try to make a list myself later.
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Hireling is the best $6 Kingdom card in Adventures, hands down.
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Hireling is the best $6 Kingdom card in Adventures, hands down.
Better than Teacher and Champion?
(http://reignshalom.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/You_Got_Served_Graphic.17042434_std.png)
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Hireling is the best $6 Kingdom card in Adventures, hands down.
Better than Teacher and Champion?
He said best $6, not best $6*
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Hireling is the best $6 Kingdom card in Adventures, hands down.
Better than Teacher and Champion?
(http://reignshalom.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/You_Got_Served_Graphic.17042434_std.png)
Those aren't Kingdom cards. Though on a first impression, Teacher and Champion are good enough that I'd probably frequently pay $6 for Peasant and Page.
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I almost wonder if in a thinning game with like chapel, you should wait to get page and stuff like that until turns 3/4, maybe even 5.
In a boring standard game, Silver/Chapel may be a bit better in development than Page/Chapel. Perhaps Peasant/Chapel is a tad better than Silver/Chapel, though.
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I'd assume Page/Chapel is better than
Silver/Chapel 99% of openings in Dominion. You want to start Exchanging as soon as you can, and you'll get more than enough economy from Treasure Hunter and Hero.
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I'd assume Page/Chapel is better than Silver/Chapel 99% of openings in Dominion. You want to start Exchanging as soon as you can, and you'll get more than enough economy from Treasure Hunter and Hero.
Yeah, true. :/
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Here is how I would rank them
Low Tier/situational
Giant - It can hit hard, but it's slow to get in to play and needs a fair amount of support
Miser - "trashing" copper is good, the money is better, but it has to be in the right deck
Caravan Guard - Often about as good as a Pearl Diver, sometimes better
Messenger - It can dominate sometimes, mostly in multiplayer, but it's a risky proposition
Middle Tier/generally useful
Coin of the Realm - Nice failsafe village, but unreliability means you have to weigh the decision
Gear - Tucking away cards or drawing is handy, but you need terminal space for it to shine
Treasure Trove - Very good for money decks, but can be weak in engines
Wine Merchant - The more you can stack the better, and it's a Buy. Often mediocre
Duplicate - Can be a great gainer, but not always worth it
Transmogrify - Depends entirely on the board, but when it's good it's dynamite
Relic - Generally nice to hit people with the attack, but it doesn't always accomplish much
Ranger - Great for engines with lots of Villages or +Action tokens, slow a lot of the time
Swamp Hag - A good curser if there's no way to block it, but there often is. Good money too.
High Tier/high consideration on most boards
Dungeon - Excellent deck lubricant, but sometimes 2 cards are not enough
Guide - Great power cycling and defense, but sometimes you dump a bad hand for a worse one
Ratcatcher - Can be slow trashing, but at least it doesn't get in the way of things and it trashes
Hireling - Obviously a great thing to have, but like Prince it takes some setup to get going
Distant Lands - 4 points is more than you think. If you can avoid real greening for a while, get this
Royal Carriage - It's a throne variant, those are always nice to have
Bridge Troll - Mean attack and cost reduction in one, at times better for getting engine parts than VP
Port - Two Villages. If you draw both, that's +3 actions. Villages are villages.
Raze - More versatile than Ratcatcher and can potentially be played more often more quickly
Haunted Woods - Attack varies in usefulness, but +3 Cards next turn is on par/better than Wharf
Amulet - Often a solid opener. The Silver and trashing options are handy, and coin is decent if forced
Artificer - Strong peddler variant that can run piles and topdeck important cards
Storyteller - Cuwazy draw that enables all kinds of madness. Hit to your economy doesn't matter in games where this is good.
Top Tier/power cards
Page - All of the forms are good to have in the right deck, and Champion makes decks explode
Lost City - The drawback is usually worth it. You can make amazing engines with this
Peasant - At worst it's +buy. Soldier, Disciple, and Teacher can all be nuts depending on the board
Magpie - You will nearly always open with this. Even if it doesn't always do what you want, it gets you through your deck fast if you have enough. Also amazing with TFB cards and +X tokens. Don't be fooled by the similarity to rats; this is a power card, plain and simple.
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As soon you have a way to play giant two times in a turn it's so devestating I found it insulting to say it's low-tier. It's a WONDERFUL card!
Royal Carriage feels OP at the moment, but give it a 100 more games i guess it will evens out.
Artificer is a trap card on my skill level. It has its uses, i'm sure, but i can't figure out when and how right now..
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Well, I'm not saying it's a bad card or that I dislike it or anything. I just think that with no support you are barely going to get it to do anything, whereas the stronger cards in the game are either enablers like trashers or powerful on their own like wharf.
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Sure, but then I have to question Page and Peasant. Of course they're strong, but without a planned strategy to use them they are very easy to beat it seems. They merely just mess with your deck if you don't know what you're doing.
Power-cards naturally, but top-tier in a ranking-sense? I'm not so sure. Many will loose with these trying to get them to work.
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I feel like the only time Peasant isn't a must-buy is a board with Peasant and nine Kingdom treasures. In the same situation with Page I might still open Page/Page.
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Lost city two tiers above Gear is a crime. I might even swap the two.
EDIT: My rankings by cost, left is better:
2: Peasant, Page, Coin of the Realm, Ratcatcher, Raze
3: Amulet, Gear, Guide, Dungeon, Caravan Guard
4: Magpie, Port, Ranger, Transmogrify, Duplicate, Messenger, Miser
5: Bridge Troll, Distant Lands, Storyteller, Haunted Woods, Lost City, Royal Carriage, Relic, Artificer, Giant, Swamp Hag, Treasure Trove, Wine Merchant
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I could agree that I've overrated lost city, but while gear is cool, I don't think it's nearly as good as you're implying.
Again, my ranking is just my opinion. I am used to most of the cards, but I'm certainly not a top authority. If you guys have your own thoughts, do share those.
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Well, I'm not saying it's a bad card or that I dislike it or anything. I just think that with no support you are barely going to get it to do anything, whereas the stronger cards in the game are either enablers like trashers or powerful on their own like wharf.
With "no support," Wine Merchant is so, so bad though.
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I could agree that I've overrated lost city, but while gear is cool, I don't think it's nearly as good as you're implying.
Again, my ranking is just my opinion. I am used to most of the cards, but I'm certainly not a top authority. If you guys have your own thoughts, do share those.
Well until someone else says they have game tested Adventures more than you, I'm gonna take your opinion to the bank. No pun intended😜
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I could agree that I've overrated lost city, but while gear is cool, I don't think it's nearly as good as you're implying.
Again, my ranking is just my opinion. I am used to most of the cards, but I'm certainly not a top authority. If you guys have your own thoughts, do share those.
Well until someone else says they have game tested Adventures more than you, I'm gonna take your opinion to the bank. No pun intended😜
Mic and LastFootnote definitely did, so they can probably give you a better analysis if they provide it.
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I think Guide is a power card. Magpie is a must buy on almost all boards.
I still haven't played enough games with the travellers to form an opinion. They're good though. I think Lost City is good but not top tier good.
Haunted Woods is very good, arguably one of the best draw cards in the game.
Anyway I have only played a dozen or so games so I might off.
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I'll give this a go. I should say that I haven't played Adventures yet and I haven't read much feedback from people who have, so these opinions are all purely speculative and could be way off. I feel pretty confident about the skill level of some of these cards and utterly clueless about others. I might add more detail later, though I don't have a laptop at the moment, so typing long posts is difficult. I'll go by cost, listing from best to worst.
$2:
Peasant - Champion looks better than Teacher, but every card in this line looks pretty good. Teacher is one of my favorite cards ever.
Page - Champion is good but getting there is tough. Still, I think it will usually be worth it.
Ratcatcher - Not sure about this one. It looks pretty slow, but the fact that they don't get in the way at all, are incredibly cheap, and remove themselves from your deck once you're done with them could make them really strong.
Coin of the Realm - Good when it's there when you need it, but looks pretty unreliable. That being said, a village is a village.
Raze - Really unsure about this. At first I thought it was going to be terrible, now I think it might be alright, but I'm not really sure. I don't really like it, though. It's a TfB card which gives you virtually no incentive to trash really expensive cards, which I don't really like.
$3:
Dungeon - The benefit to your first turn is modest, the benefit to your second turn is huge. Feels like it should be better than Warehouse.
Gear - Looks tremendously flexible. Hard to see this not being a power card.
Amulet - Pretty good trasher. Silver-gaining makes it a nice BM card, too.
Guide - Good defense against discard attacks, good for cycling. Use cautiously, though.
Caravan Guard - Yeah, this looks really bad. I hope it's better than we think it is, but I don't think it will be.
$4:
Magpie - As others have been saying, this looks like a must-buy on almost any board.
Port - Village is good, so naturally double Village for 4/3 the cost should be really, really good.
Ranger - I really don't know how good this will be. I really love the card, though, so I hope it's good. I think it probably can be, though it probably needs a good amount of support.
Transmogrify - I don't really know. It looks meh to me for the most part, but undoubtedly it has the potential to be very powerful on some boards. Risky, though; don't turn your Village into a Smithy if the Villages are gone.
Messenger - Woodcutter and Chancellor are bad, and they don't really have much synergy. The on-buy effect can be useful, but the windows in which it is useful are probably going to be pretty narrow. Looks like a high-skill card, I like it.
Miser - I thought this looked really good at first, but it looks painfully slow, and you definitely need a lot of terminal space for it to shine.
Duplicate - This looks incredibly mediocre to me. Hard to imagine you'll want to spend a terminal on this very often. Still will be important when there's no other extra buys or gains, though.
$5:
Lost City - Super powerful. The penalty will hurt but will almost always be worth it, I think.
Bridge Troll - I won't be surprised if I'm overestimating this, but this looks incredibly powerful. Bridge is good, and this is a Bridge the turn you play it and a cantrip Bridge the turn after; and there's an attack! And it only costs $1 more than Bridge. And the attack looks pretty brutal.
Haunted Woods - The attack will vary a lot in usefulness, but that draw is insane. This is another card I may be overestimating, though.
Storyteller - Looks difficult to use, but very powerful on certain boards.
Royal Carriage - Throne Room variants are typically powerful, and this is no exception. Is also the first card that can allow more than 2 or 3 plays of a single card, and stacking these on your power cards could be really good.
Artificer - This card is so cool. It strikes a really neat balance between hurting your current hand by discarding and helping your current hand by topdecking a solid card. Will probably be really busted with draw-up-to-X.
Treasure Trove - Looks positively monstrous in BM. Probably bad in engines that aren't built around Watchtower or Storyteller, though.
Distant Lands - Looks better than I initially thought. Giving up terminal space for a one-shot that gives a pretty significant amount of VP seems like a generally fair trade. Is probably atrocious in BM decks, though.
Wine Merchant - At first I had this listed as the worst $5 card, but upon further consideration it's not as bad as it might at first seem. The key is that you can discard any number of these at the end of your Buy phase if you have $2 leftover. This means that if you can play multiple per turn (including with TR variants) then only one is equivalent to a Woodcutter, and the rest are as good as a $5 action that gives $4 and a Buy (which is pretty damn good). And, while it's probably usually better to discard it the turn you play it if possible, having the option to hold onto it and sacrifice the $2 on a later turn is nice.
Relic - A $5 Silver is pretty bad, so the attack better be pretty good. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that it is. It doesn't look bad, just not that great.
Swamp Hag - Probably better for the money than for the attack, honestly. Will probably have niche uses, but overall looks weak.
Giant - The token-up effect just doesn't seem strong enough to warrant making this card a terminal Copper every other play. Seems really bad, though could still be relevant in the absence of other junking attacks. I don't know.
$6:
Hireling - Looks fine. Kinda slow, but the benefit is huge. Will probably be a medium level card overall.
I may do events later.
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I have to say that I think that people are underestimating Wine Merchant's potential as a payload card. If you manage to play multiple in one turn and want to call them all, only one of them is a Woodcutter.
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I have to say that I think that people are underestimating Wine Merchant's potential as a payload card. If you manage to play multiple in one turn and want to call them all, only one of them is a Woodcutter.
Yes, this actually just occurred to me, and I was about to update my post. It still seems weak overall, but with support I could see it being really good.
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Wine Merchant is a Baron, guys. Barons are really really strong early game. And that's the problem with this card. It may be a guaranteed hit, but you don't get it early game, and you must sacrifice economy on another turn. This is a spike card.
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Magpie - As others have been saying, this looks like a must-buy on almost any board.
Okay, people keep saying this; can someone explain it in more detail? Aren't there lots of boards in which you don't want a lot of Treasures in your deck, in which case Magpie doesn't do anything for you? Or is Magpie strong enough to force a Treasure-heavy strategy no matter what else is on the board?
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Magpie - As others have been saying, this looks like a must-buy on almost any board.
Okay, people keep saying this; can someone explain it in more detail? Aren't there lots of boards in which you don't want a lot of Treasures in your deck, in which case Magpie doesn't do anything for you? Or is Magpie strong enough to force a Treasure-heavy strategy no matter what else is on the board?
Even if you have strong trashing in a game, you usually have some straggling treasures until the end of a game. You don't need to buy bigger money cards to make Magpie good. If it's drawing you Copper it's a Lab that potentially replicated itself earlier. If it missed Copper and gained you another Magpie, that's one maybe-Lab you have and your opponent doesn't. It gets even better when you add the token cards or a TFB that can make use of excess Magpies.
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Not having ever played with Adventures, my impression would be that, in the absence of cards that can exploit Magpie's self-replication, Magpie is not so much super strong as something you have to contest to keep the other player in check, because getting all 10 for the price of one is definitely strong. But maybe the testers disagree?
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It's not that you pursue Magpie when you want Treasures in your deck. It's that Magpie makes it okay to have Treasures in your deck, and can make engines that otherwise would flounder with Treasures in them putter along just fine.
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Any cantrip that can gain copies of itself would have to have a pretty weak secondary effect to not be worth going for a lot of the time. Picking up straggling treasures that could otherwise clog your engine is anything but a weak effect, so I figured Magpie has to be pretty darn good. For that reason I actually think it's probably more useful in engines than in BM decks, funnily enough, though I'm not sure. Obviously it's still really good in BM decks. Also the Rats-like gaining is going to work brilliantly with TfB.
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I think in almost every (2-player) game there will be a good reason to go for Magpie. If either player wants to go for it, the other pretty much has to in order to contest it and prevent it from going crazy. So as long as one player is going for a big money deck, or an engine without strong trashing, or an engine with TfB as payload, the other has to get Magpies to prevent his opponent from going nuts with them. I think it will be pretty often that at least one player is going for one of those things.
That being said, it probably isn't great on strong engine boards with strong trashing without TfB payload potential (though even then maybe you can use them for pile control?). I'm not really sure how often that exact kind of board comes up.
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I think in almost every (2-player) game there will be a good reason to go for Magpie. If either player wants to go for it, the other pretty much has to in order to contest it and prevent it from going crazy. So as long as one player is going for a big money deck, or an engine without strong trashing, or an engine with TfB as payload, the other has to get Magpies to prevent his opponent from going nuts with them. I think it will be pretty often that at least one player is going for one of those things.
That being said, it probably isn't great on strong engine boards with strong trashing without TfB payload potential (though even then maybe you can use them for pile control?). I'm not really sure how often that exact kind of board comes up.
Even with strong trashing, you might have one or two treasures left. That means if you get all 10 magpies, those that hit treasures will be labs and you only paid $4 for one Magpie.
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Personally, I don't like the journey token very much. That is why I would rate ranger lower than most people did so far because I consider it highly situational and only good with village support to play 2 of them consistently.
Miser seems like a card that you wantto make work, but don't most of the time. I agree that it should be on ther lower ranks.
Also, I don't think caravan guard is as bad if you can somehow gain them. Looks like an awesome upgrade/remake target in engines aswell as Haggler target if there are no other cheap engine components.
I'm not sure how strong artificier will be, though.
The card I'm most excited about is Haunted Woods. I think the attack will range from very bad (estates are trashed, only dead actions cards left) to very good in the greening phase. I'm most interested how silkroad/garden strategies work against a haunted woods engine, because it lets you have a dead turn almost every seconds turn.
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Miser definitely prefers slower games, but it's more reliable than Pirate Ship. It's also really helped by Throne Room variants; that way, you can both reserve a Copper and get $ from the same Miser.
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Miser definitely prefers slower games, but it's more reliable than Pirate Ship. It's also really helped by Throne Room variants; that way, you can both reserve a Copper and get $ from the same Miser.
I see Miser as terminal money. If you want terminal money in your deck, Miser won't hurt you. Plus, you can always boost them with extra copper gains.
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I'm no pro, but Bridge Troll seems like a real power card, up there with Wharf. It's also a lot more open to non-engine strategies, but suffers a little from not being Throneable (and it would be game-breakingly good if it were worded like Bridge, so good design on that).