Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => General Discussion => Topic started by: 2.71828..... on April 24, 2015, 02:51:23 pm
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I have always enjoyed fantasy books, but somehow I have never actually read the Wheel of Time books. Well, I am about to remedy that. I have started all sorts of incomplete series (Game of Thrones/Kingkiller Chronicles/Stormlight Archives) and am really excited to start reading a series that is actually complete.
So anyway, before I pick up the first book, I thought I would start this thread to chronicle my journey through the series. Please, no spoilers for those of you who have read the books (I assume several of you have). My intent, however, is to post stuff about the books as I read them, so this thread will eventually contain spoilers for people who have never read the series.
And please feel free to say anything about the books or whatever that won't give anything away.
Here we go....
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I'm far more interested in reading this thread than actually attempting to read the Wheel of Time series.
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They're the kind of books you want to have a long time to read. I've heard a lot of criticism about them, but it's still my canonical epic fantasy series. It was also the first series I read after Lord of the Rings. I picked up The Eye of the World in 5th grade on a whim.. I had finished Lord of the Rings and wanted something similar, so I went to the book store and just thought the covers looked cool. At that time Lord of Chaos had just come out. It was hard to read (I was still young), but I still got into the story. I became pretty engrossed in it. I remember one year in middle school, I checked out one of the books from the library (it may have been Lord of Chaos, or possibly A Crown of Swords had just come out). There was some kind of 10-day limit on it (I think they only had one copy?), so I basically read it nonstop to finish in 10 days. I think this had caught me up with the published ones, so then I was waiting book-by-book for the new ones to be printed. For the next couple of books, I reread the series in preparation for the new release, so I ended up reading the first six or so books three or four times.
Anyway, the books are very in depth in terms of the world he creates and the amount of detail he describes. The language, culture, religion, etc. of this world is explored extensively.
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It really is amazing how Christopher Paolini just took everyone else's stories and merged them to make his own. I mean, seriously? It is like he took the first few chapters of Eye of the World and changed the names and a bit of the story.
edit: Don't take that the wrong way, I did enjoy the Eragon books and all. But they are literally a combination of Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and at least through chapter 6 of Eye of the World.
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It really is amazing how Christopher Paolini just took everyone else's stories and merged them to make his own. I mean, seriously? It is like he took the first few chapters of Eye of the World and changed the names and a bit of the story.
I never read him.
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It really is amazing how Christopher Paolini just took everyone else's stories and merged them to make his own. I mean, seriously? It is like he took the first few chapters of Eye of the World and changed the names and a bit of the story.
I never read him.
I saw the movie. It was terrible.
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You may also be interested in Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. While I was reading that series, I saw many favourable comparisons with ASOIAF. Now that I'm almost caught up on it, I can say that comparisons are valid but Malazan is way heavier on the magic side of things.
For something very different but still very good, consider Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky. It's a great fantasy series but it has a very unique spin to it.
Eragon and the other books in the... I think he named it the Inheritance Cycle? I read it and I recognize how derivative it is, but I still enjoyed it.
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I read eragon several times. I think the plot is pretty generic and the world super generic, what makes it special is the conveyed philosophy and maybe some of the supernatural mechanics. It's also overrated though.
PPE: The movie is of course god awful
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Eragon and the other books in the... I think he named it the Inheritance Cycle? I read it and I recognize how derivative it is, but I still enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the first one, loathed the second, liked the first half of the third, and loathed the second half again. I've heard the fourth is not much better.
The movie somehow manages to be way worse than the book, despite having Jeremy Irons in it.
EDIT: I'm also hoping that the third part of the Kingkiller Chronicles is more like the first than like the second. The second one was really embarrassing at times.
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You may also be interested in Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. While I was reading that series, I saw many favourable comparisons with ASOIAF. Now that I'm almost caught up on it, I can say that comparisons are valid but Malazan is way heavier on the magic side of things.
For something very different but still very good, consider Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky. It's a great fantasy series but it has a very unique spin to it.
Eragon and the other books in the... I think he named it the Inheritance Cycle? I read it and I recognize how derivative it is, but I still enjoyed it.
Malazan Book of the Fallen is my favorite series ever.
Edit: And Glen Cook's The Black Company is comparable, I think. Also Glen Cook heavily influenced Erikson, I believe.
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I remember liking Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. I was young though, I don't know if I would still like it now.
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Eragon and the other books in the... I think he named it the Inheritance Cycle? I read it and I recognize how derivative it is, but I still enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the first one, loathed the second, liked the first half of the third, and loathed the second half again. I've heard the fourth is not much better.
I've forgotten most of what happened in the series. It was just -- Dragons, but only a few! Magic! Child of destiny!! I did read it all, but nothing was particularly memorable.
You may also be interested in Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. While I was reading that series, I saw many favourable comparisons with ASOIAF. Now that I'm almost caught up on it, I can say that comparisons are valid but Malazan is way heavier on the magic side of things.
Malazan Book of the Fallen is my favorite series ever.
It's got a bunch of books outside the main series too. I've read the main 10, and I think I read most of the other books that were released prior to the last one in the main series. At some point I mean to re-read all of it.
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Erikson has released a lot of short stories in the Malazan series, mainly focusing on our buddies Bachelain and Korbal Broach. His friend with whom he created the Malazan world, Ian Cameron Esslemont, has written a number of novels himself, most of which provide some backstory on some characters, as well as some insight into historical events.
The big thing Erikson is doing outside the main series is a trilogy about the early Tiste Andii (back when Anonmander Rake was just an angsty teen), The Kharkanas Trilogy. The first one came out a couple years ago; the second one is supposed to come out later this year. It's pretty fascinating, I think.
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So far so good.
The Aes Sedai seem to be the good guys....but they are so stuck up and full of themselves that they have allowed most everyone to forget that. Well, that and the fact that they have special powers and evil factions within their own ranks...common people don't like that so much. Also, talking to wolves. Something I did not expect. But cool.
I like how the "breaking of the fellowship" occurred. I can only assume that as the books progress I will have to keep track of even more storylines....not just the 3 or so that have developed. Plus trying to figure out how the whole prologue works into things.
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Finished the first book. Thats what happens when you get a day off work I suppose.
I like the story so far. There are plenty of little things that still need to work out. Like put all those arrogant women in their place. I mean, women are the only people who can touch the One Source and not go crazy? Eh, I don't know. I mean, maybe recently yes. But that will obviously be something important moving forward. But yeah, probably won't be able to read the rest of the books quite as fast.
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I read the first book in Swedish when I was younger. It's only half of the first original book. Didn't like it at all. Can't really say why. I may give it a try again sometime.
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Be forewarned, the books run into some pretty serious pacing issues around the fifth book.
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To continue the off-topic Eragon discussion...
I got the first two books for my 10th birthday and thought they were the greatest thing ever. I like the third one fairly well, thought of course as more and more viewpoints were added, some of them were bound to be far less interesting than others. I thought the whole "the elves are all atheists and there's theological controversy between them and the dwarves about how coral is alive and also a rock" to be pretty hilarious.
I read the fourth book, but it felt different than the other three. In particular the final battle was soooooooo anticlimactic and botched, it was astonishing. Also, things got kind of weird with intimations of nuclear fallout on Vroengard, and then yay dragon sex! And then having the prophecy of Eragon leaving at the end seemed like such a shoe-in. There was basically no reason for it aside from what Paolini had tied himself to earlier. And then King Orrin suddenly becoming this colossal dick of an alcoholic almost out of nowhere was also just weird. There were some good parts too though. Murtaugh and Nasuada's relationship, the cache of stuff on the island. Really though, after three books of hype about Galbatorix and how powerful he was, I didn't like how what we saw of him through Nasuada's torture scenes and whatnot...it just didn't jive with my expectations at all. It was almost like no real character could actually live up to the reputation he had. I could say a lot more, as I amused myself for hours reading the pages and pages of hilarious one star reviews on Amazon for the last book after I had finished it. And ended up embarrassing myself in the library because I couldn't help but laugh out loud at some of them.
On-topic. I've started the Wheel of Time series three times, in book and audiobook form and was never able to get very far. It's unfortunate, because my understanding is that it was much more unique in it's own time. It's just that so many other people have used those same ideas over and over again, the series seems kind of cliche now. Granted, I probably have a much shorter attention span these days.
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Book 2, chapter 9. Leave Takings.
About time. Get away from that desolate castle and get the story up and moving again. Some good development though. building up the Black Ajah was important, as well as revealing that a big important leader in the White Cloaks people is evil.
(yeah, pace slowed quite a bit. What can I say, I got on a Breaking Bad binge)
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Hahaha, he thinks book 2 is slow... how cute.
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So I am on book 5 now. Basically, never ask me to do a blog or anything that requires me to post about every day. You know, like a mafia game or something.
Anyway, favorite character right now is probably mat. He just needs to turn up how badass he is and quit following rand around. Most interested to see how things will turn out with logain. Totally don't care about the white tower being divided. Destroy both divisions of the tower I say, start from scratch.
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Also, I find it extremely hilarious how the girls in dream world constantly get "lower necklines" whenever they think of guys. Like, hilarious. Sure, changing clothes based on emotions, blah, blah. But for all his creativity, when it comes to dreams, all girls care about is cleavage.
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Hahaha, he thinks book 2 is slow... how cute.
This.
Also, you guys have way too much tolerance. Can't anyone else summon up my pure, absolute hatred of WoT and Eragon. Those books are not well-written. Worldbuilding ideas do not a good writer make.
Malazan series, however, is excellent. Also good is Robin Hobb, despite her books' tendency to have absolutely terrible covers.
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It really is amazing how Christopher Paolini just took everyone else's stories and merged them to make his own. I mean, seriously? It is like he took the first few chapters of Eye of the World and changed the names and a bit of the story.
I never read him.
I saw the movie. It was terrible.
Movie adaptions of books are quite often terrible. Do not hold it against the book series, which was actually quite good. Not LoTR good, but good.
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Hahaha, he thinks book 2 is slow... how cute.
This.
Also, you guys have way too much tolerance. Can't anyone else summon up my pure, absolute hatred of WoT and Eragon. Those books are not well-written. Worldbuilding ideas do not a good writer make.
Malazan series, however, is excellent. Also good is Robin Hobb, despite her books' tendency to have absolutely terrible covers.
I agree that eragon isn't that well written, actually. he also world builded himself into a corner, defining too many specific elements which lead to a few unsolvable plotholes and an inevitably disappointing conclusion. But the ideas and morals are great. that just has to carry the book for you... if it doesn't, like in your case, you won't like the book.
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It really is amazing how Christopher Paolini just took everyone else's stories and merged them to make his own. I mean, seriously? It is like he took the first few chapters of Eye of the World and changed the names and a bit of the story.
I never read him.
I saw the movie. It was terrible.
Movie adaptions of books are quite often terrible. Do not hold it against the book series, which was actually quite good. Not LoTR good, but good.
Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
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Lord of the Rings reads like a Bible. I mean, that's probably intentional, but I feel that The Hobbit is much better written. Reads better, at least.
Eragon (movie)'s problems were all story problems. It was cliched to all hell.
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Be forewarned, the books run into some pretty serious pacing issues around the fifth book.
This this, so much this. If anything it gets worse (more fractured) before it gets better.
Also, I find it extremely hilarious how the girls in dream world constantly get "lower necklines" whenever they think of guys. Like, hilarious. Sure, changing clothes based on emotions, blah, blah. But for all his creativity, when it comes to dreams, all girls care about is cleavage.
Robert Jordan might run out of ways to describe heaving bosoms, but he never stops trying.
Anyhow I started the series as a teenager and read it as fast as I could until I had caught up. I'd pick up the new WoT book whenever it came out. I don't think I would have had the patience for it had I started it later in life, but I kept reading it out of a sense of obligation and nostalgia. I actually think Brendan Sanderson does a very good job of ending the series, it feels like Jordan's writing, probably because it at least partially is, but also because Sanderson does a great job of writing in Jordan's style. Anyhow enjoy the series for what it is, an interesting world, but it gets pretty pulpy and soap opera-esque. Still it's a lot of fun.
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
Which is why the movies are better.
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
No good DM would split the party for such a long time.
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Come on, LoTR is arguably the greatest literary composition of the 20th century.
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
No good DM would split the party for such a long time.
Agreed, but sometimes that's on the party. A good DM also doesn't railroad the PCs.
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Come on, LoTR is arguably the greatest literary composition of the 20th century.
Well, it's the best-selling one, but I wouldn't really argue that it's even close to being the greatest.
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
No good DM would split the party for such a long time.
Agreed, but sometimes that's on the party. A good DM also doesn't railroad the PCs.
LOTR D&D, Chapter Elrond's Council:
Frodo_Player: "So I have to go on a suicide mission to the most dangerous place in the world---"
Boromir_Player: "One does not simply walk into Morodor."
Frodo_Player: "Frank, shut up. So anyway, I have this super powerful ring and I can choose to become a powerful Lich or go on a certain death journey."
GM_As_Elrond: "Well, um... the ring must be destroyed."
Frodo_Player: "Yeah, I'm going to the bad route on this one. I pop on the ring."
GM: "No, I mean.. you can't choose to not go on the journey, I have like 1000 pages of story and encounter written for this."
Frod_Player: "I guess you should have narrated this part then. I'm going to climb to a high point and try to flag down a Nazgul for a ride."
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Come on, LoTR is arguably the greatest literary composition of the 20th century.
Well, it's the best-selling one, but I wouldn't really argue that it's even close to being the greatest.
Not even close?
Sir, do you even Literature?
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
No good DM would split the party for such a long time.
Agreed, but sometimes that's on the party. A good DM also doesn't railroad the PCs.
Okay Frodo and Sam ditch the party sure, but lots of the other fellowship members are just trying to find each other and JRR makes it take forever.
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
No good DM would split the party for such a long time.
Agreed, but sometimes that's on the party. A good DM also doesn't railroad the PCs.
Okay Frodo and Sam ditch the party sure, but lots of the other fellowship members are just trying to find each other and JRR makes it take forever.
Hm, agreed.
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I mean it depends on the system. If it's not D&D and you can make combat short and brutal, splitting the party isn't so bad. Jumpcuts are a GM's best friend.
I assume Helm's Deep was a night where Frodo and Sam were absent.
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LoTR inspired D&D, not the other way around. When Tolkien wrote his book, that entire genre didn't even exist, or barely existed.
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LoTR inspired D&D, not the other way around. When Tolkien wrote his book, that entire genre didn't even exist, or barely existed.
Pretty sure we all know this.
Also, Jack Vance inspired a lot of how D&D worked too. Although Gygax managed to ignore the coolest stuff about Vance.
Even more off-topic: Anyone played the Dying Earth RPG?
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Come on, LoTR is arguably the greatest literary composition of the 20th century.
Well, it's the best-selling one, but I wouldn't really argue that it's even close to being the greatest.
Not even close?
Sir, do you even Literature?
A ton of literature was written in the 20th century, and many of those works are incredible. It's not even the greatest work of its year. It's not even the greatest work by Tolkien. It's not even close.
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Come on, LoTR is arguably the greatest literary composition of the 20th century.
Well, it's the best-selling one, but I wouldn't really argue that it's even close to being the greatest.
Not even close?
Sir, do you even Literature?
A ton of literature was written in the 20th century, and many of those works are incredible. It's not even the greatest work of its year. It's not even the greatest work by Tolkien. It's not even close.
Hahaha, you what mate?
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Ah yes, "LoTR good". Lord of the Rings is like a play-by-play account of a D&D campaign. I think my favorite part is when Frodo and Sam are at the top of a cliff and discuss for several pages the best way to climb down. Thanks, Tolkien!
Relevant. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612)
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/necro
E, did you ever finish the series or did you give up somewhere between books 6 and 10 (I wouldn't blame you)?
I've been making my way through the series very slowly for about 15 years or so and am in the middle of book 12 right now. All I've got to say is thank god for Brandon Sanderson. Best book since 4 or 5.