Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: faust on April 04, 2015, 09:38:36 am

Title: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2015, 09:38:36 am
Welcome to RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia!

Mod: faust

This is a closed RMM game for 15 players. It is, in some ways, a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM which never quite took off, reusing some of the ideas implemented there, but also introducing totally new aspects. The theme of this game follows the flavor of the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". Roles, and alignments, will be highly thematic.

Realize that RMM stands for Role Madness Mafia, and this may be true for this game in a particular way. Every player gets a uniquely designed role that may very well feature new or unusual types of actions as well as nonstandard win conditions. Still, this is not a bastard game, and balance has been strived for. There will be no mod lying, and no player's win condition can change over the course of the game. More details about the setup are found in the following post.

Players:
1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4) (killed N5)
3. chairs (Anyanka, the Town-aligned Rehabilitated Vengeance Demon) (killed N5)
4. EgorK (Tara Maclay, the Vampire-aligned Witch of All Trades) (lynched D2)
5. Ichimaru Gin (Illyria, the self-aligned Time Travelling Old One) (killed N2)
6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow (Warren Mears, the self-aligned Megalomaniac Inventor) (lynched D5)
7. silverspawn (Faith Lehane, the Town-aligned Capricious Slayer) (killed N5)
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob (Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager) (killed D1)
11. A Drowned Kernel replaced by Archetype
12. Awaclus (Lorne, the Wolfram&Hart-aligned Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host) (lynched D4)
13. Lekkit (Spike, the Town-aligned Chipped Vampire) (killed N2)
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi (Cordelia Chase, the Town-aligned Vision Girl) (killed N4)

Spectators tagged: Archetype, skip wooznum

Day starts/ends:
D1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498278#msg498278) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg501101#msg501101)
D2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg501680#msg501680) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg504536#msg504536)
D3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg504861#msg504861) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg508290#msg508290)
D4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg508918#msg508918) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg510682#msg510682)
D5 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg511356#msg511356)

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

The Silver Rule:

If any instructions you receive from the mods (via PM or otherwise) contradict any rules stated here, please stick to the instructions. If you are unsure, please contact the mods before taking action.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
4. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. This game will have variable deadlines, depending on the number of players still alive as follows: If more than 13 or less than 7 players are alive, days will last 7 days, otherwise 9 days. Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent. Personal communication remains forbidden until the game is over.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2015, 09:38:50 am
Setup Information

This is an interaction-heavy setup. Special rules apply for this game, some of those rules are taken from previous RMM games (in particular Dune 2 and Time War Mafia). The rules are:

1. Actions
The game is split into game phases, i.e. Day phases and Night phases. Every action players can perform will come either as a Day action, a Night action or a Day/Night action.

1.1 Day actions
Day actions must be submitted during the Day action window. The Day action window opens 24 hours into each Day and ends 48 hours later. All actions taken during the Day, unless specified otherwise, must be submitted within that window. Day actions are processed in the order they are posted. You may hand in your Day action order in advance, i.e. within the first 24 hours of the Day. If you do, the action will resolved at the start of the Day action window. If multiple players do, actions are resolved according to the Action Resolution chain as described below. Day actions are final once submitted. Votes do not count as Day actions for any purpose.

1.2 Night actions
Night actions must be submitted during the first 24 hours of the night. Night actions may be changed until the end of the deadline. All night actions resolve at the end of the night according to the Action resolution chain.

1.3 Day/Night actions
Day/Night action may be submitted either during the Day action window or during the first 24 hours of the night. Once an action of this kind has been submitted, it will not be possible to use that power the following game phase. (I.e. if the action was submitted during the Day, you may not use it the following night.)

1.4 Special actions
Some actions may specify other times for the submission. Please read your Role QT carefully to find out when your action has to be submitted.

1.5 Submission
All action names are verbs in the imperative mood (i.e. “kill” or “eat”). When an action is being used, the player must write the action name followed by a colon, one space, and the target’s player name in their Role QT or their factional QT if applicable (only if their factional QT is not locked at the time of submission). Orders placed in the Role QT always prevail over orders in the factional QT. The entire phrase must be bolded. For example: Salute: sudgy. Some actions may specify other modes of submission. Please read your Role QT carefully.

2. Items
Players in this game may hold items. The items give some sort of power. During the day, each player may give an item to any other player by posting Give: Player name in thread. This counts as a Day action (see above) for all purposes. If you hold multiple items, you need to specify which item you want to give in your Role QT as soon as you post this. No player may ever hold more than three items; if they would gain an additional item, this item is removed from the game.

You may also destroy any item you hold. To do this, post Destroy: Item in your personal QT. If you do, that item is removed from the game. This counts as a Day/Night action for all purposes.

3. Species
All players may be assigned at most one species (e.g. "human" or "demon"). Demons may be classified by an additional subcategory (e.g. "vampire"). In general, species is not indicative of alignment.

4. Time Travel
At least one power in this game will revolve around Time Travel. A player with a Time Travel power may choose to travel to a different game phase to perform their action, if any. After carrying out their action (if applicable), they return to the current game phase.

It is not possible for players with Time Travel powers to have their action manipulated by being targeted in the game phase they travel to, only by being targeted in the current game phase. (e.g. if in N3, a Time Travelling Vigilante travels to D1 to perform a kill, a Roleblocker targeting them during D1 will not be able to stop the kill) If a player with a Time Travel power travels to a Day phase, their action will automatically resolve after all other actions of that Day phase.

It is not possible that Time Travel powers change vote counts in any way, even if the player who hammered is now already dead. At the end of each game phase, all game phases in the “past” will be re-evaluated and the game state will be adjusted to account for these actions, beginning with N0.

5. Player resurrection
Due to mechanics in this game, it may be possible for players in this game to return from the dead. Therefore, I will not grant dead players access to the spectator QT. Any player may choose to opt out of the game once they have died, thus giving up any chance of interaction with the game, in return for access to the spectator QT. This is not advised. Once the chances of again interacting with the game have dropped to zero for a given player, I will inform them of this and the will be given access to the spectator QT. Dead player may not perform actions unless stated otherwise.

6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology. Additionally, each role comes with an alignment. (e.g. "Town-aligned" or "self-aligned"). Once a player dies, their flavor name, role name and alignment will be posted in the game thread.

7. Action resolution chain
All actions that are resolved at the same time, in particular night actions, will be resolved according to the following protocol:

1. Find an action (or a passive modifier) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
2. Resolve it.
3. Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

In case of conflicting night actions, order of resolution is determined by the kind of action performed in the following way:

1. Time Travel
2. Copy
3. Hide
4. Bus
5. Block
6. Redirect
7. Protect
8. Item-related actions
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

If you are unsure in which category your night action falls, please ask in your Role QT. In case of conflicting night actions of the same type, the following protocol is applied:

1. Actions by town-aligned players are resolved first.
2. If 1 doesn't apply, actions by demon players are resolved first.
3. If 2 doesn't apply, actions by roles with female flavor names are resolved first.
4. If 3 doesn't apply, the action submitted first will be resolved first.

8. Miscellaneous
This game takes its flavor from the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". The setting is roughly the sixth season of Buffy/third season of Angel, but the flavor may also reference earlier or later episodes. Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

It is not possible for any player to have their win condition changed during the course of this game.

Any questions regarding the setup should be posed either pregame or in your Role QT.

In order to sign up for this game, a player should have finished at least one game of mafia on f.ds. By signing up for this, you agree that the mod of this game has the last word in any discussion, and may change the rules of the game at his own discretion if he deems it necessary. You further agree to respect the rules of this game even once you have dropped out, until it is finished.

The win condition for Town-aligned players is as follows:

Quote
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player left alive.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2015, 12:28:18 am
a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM

'nuff said.  /in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2015, 12:31:44 am
Time war was also amazing.  Let's get Voltaire back.  Who is going to his thing next weekend at Cat & Mouse Games (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12708.msg470850#msg470850)?  You should totally convince him to play.  (I would go but Chicago is so far away and work and stuff.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on April 05, 2015, 12:34:27 am
Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Hydrad on April 05, 2015, 01:07:56 am
/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: ashersky on April 05, 2015, 01:13:16 am
Angel is the best.  /in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: EgorK on April 05, 2015, 04:17:41 am
I'm /in if it starts within a week
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2015, 11:54:31 am
Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?

It starts when it fills up I guess, but I expect that to take a while. 15 players is a lot after all. I think it's reasonable to assume that Deus Ex Mafia will be finished before this starts, and possibly Kirby Mafia as well.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on April 05, 2015, 11:56:19 am
Ok. I'll /in then.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2015, 11:56:44 am
I'm /in if it starts within a week

I fear that's unlikely... but we'll see.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Witherweaver on April 05, 2015, 02:23:15 pm
Yeah.

/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: silverspawn on April 05, 2015, 04:19:34 pm
/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Archetype on April 05, 2015, 04:36:19 pm
/tag, know nothing of the flavor.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: ashersky on April 05, 2015, 08:05:55 pm
/out, sorry
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: chairs on April 09, 2015, 02:24:06 pm
/in, finally back to normality here at home.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: skip wooznum on May 04, 2015, 10:57:20 pm
/tag for now
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: ashersky on May 12, 2015, 01:33:54 am
/back in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Ghacob on May 18, 2015, 11:06:34 pm
/tag

this one sure is slow to fill, huh?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: hockeysemlan on May 21, 2015, 05:00:32 pm
/In
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: Ghacob on May 21, 2015, 05:16:51 pm
I'll /in I guess
Whatever happens happens, the more practice the better
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on May 22, 2015, 08:38:16 am
/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: hockeysemlan on May 22, 2015, 09:14:42 am
/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: liopoil on May 22, 2015, 02:25:58 pm
I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: hockeysemlan on May 22, 2015, 02:33:14 pm
I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Haha, I wouldn't even know how to ^^

but ye, then of course not and that's that. I stopped playing chatmafia due too much unseriousness. Not fun.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: ashersky on May 22, 2015, 02:43:51 pm
This needs to fill!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on May 22, 2015, 02:53:06 pm
I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Too soon, man.

And sure, /in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on May 23, 2015, 06:19:37 am
/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)

Sounds good. You're in!

So this will be fairly complicated. Don't hesitate to ask me stuff if you have questions. If you like, you can read the Lost Mafia thread to get an idea of how my RMM games look like (though arguably this one is crazier). I'm sure you can manage though, it's not rocket science or anything.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: faust on May 23, 2015, 06:20:44 am
I'm /in if it starts within a week

This was... a bit more than a week ago. Are you still willing to play?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: hockeysemlan on May 24, 2015, 06:54:26 am
I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Outrageous. I've just read the LOST-thread and good lord.. I understand Faust is suspicious to new players becuase of this, but in no way I'm capable of doing such a thing. Im here primarly for dominion and to be hated there by you all would be a night mare. The game was also really interesting to read so Im pissed as well.

And I strongly like the friendly tone you strive for here in opposition to mafiascum and the like. Its the confligt-heavy stuff i fear for in Mafia, but here it really stands clear (for the most time) that you're annoyed at each other as a part of the game and playstile and not IRL.. that's assuring :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: ashersky on May 28, 2015, 01:05:02 am
How is this not full?  LOST was a great game ruined by a bad egg.  This is our chance to relive it!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: faust on May 29, 2015, 01:49:55 pm
Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: silverspawn on May 29, 2015, 01:50:57 pm
only with an even better theme.
that won't be hard  :P
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: Awaclus on May 29, 2015, 01:54:02 pm
/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: faust on May 30, 2015, 10:32:20 am
Fun fact: The last Buffyverse-themed game was M17, run roughly two and a half years ago. Exactly one of the players in that game signed up for this game. (not counting ashersky, who modded back then)

Fun fact 2: I'm looking at old thread to seek out potential Buffy fans to get them to sign up here. Hey, Teproc/Lekkit/jotheonah, how's it going?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: mail-mi on May 30, 2015, 12:33:35 pm
SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: faust on May 30, 2015, 03:41:57 pm
SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in

Welcome back! :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: mail-mi on May 30, 2015, 03:47:54 pm
SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in

Welcome back! :)

It's good to be back.  :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: Archetype on May 30, 2015, 04:52:02 pm
Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
I do want to be in this game! But, sadly, I fear that I'll be too busy to play. Excited to see what this game has in store, though!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: mail-mi on May 31, 2015, 12:31:15 am
And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: Lekkit on June 01, 2015, 03:29:57 am
I've been eyeing this thread for a while. Can't say no now, can I?

/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: mail-mi on June 02, 2015, 03:43:59 pm
And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 03, 2015, 01:59:29 am
I'm back and in.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 03, 2015, 02:10:55 am
I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: faust on June 03, 2015, 05:52:23 am
I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in

Good to see you :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: faust on June 03, 2015, 05:58:14 am
And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
Post by: mail-mi on June 05, 2015, 10:05:47 am
And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?

Sure!
/in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
Post by: faust on June 05, 2015, 05:26:46 pm
THREAD LOCKED! (expect for tagging)

PMs are going out now. Please read the setup post and your role QT carefully. D1 starts Tuesday morning.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
Post by: faust on June 05, 2015, 05:46:03 pm
And PMs are out! Please check in in at least one of the QTs available to you before June 9.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
Post by: faust on June 09, 2015, 04:22:23 am
Not all players have yet confirmed in their QT. If you don't do so within 24 hours, you will be subject to replacement.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
Post by: faust on June 09, 2015, 11:56:45 am
The air is full of tension at Hyperion Hotel. The paranormal detective agency named "Angel Investigations" has retreated to their headquarters after their last, unsuccessful fight with their archenemies at Wolfram&Hart.

"This is too much for us to handle. Don't you see that?", yells Cordelia. "This time, we cannot win on our own. Wolfram&Hart is about to open a portal to a hell dimension, giving all kinds of unspeakable horrors way to Los Angeles, and there is nothing we can do about it!"

"And what do you suggest we do?", asks Angel. "We've already contacted everyone that owes us a favor in LA. Everyone is too afraid to support us, expecting to be crushed."

"There is a way, and you know it."

"What? No, no way. You can't possibly... I'm sure they have enough to deal with themselves. This is not an option."

"Angel - I don't know what happened there between you and Buffy, and honestly I don't want to know. But we need her here. And if you're too afraid to ask her, then I certainly will."

And with these words, Cordelia runs to the telephone, leaving Angel sitting in his chair, stunned.

It is daily routine, but Buffy knows blowing off some steam will be good for her right now. She doesn't know where the vampire hides, but he should be somewhere on this graveyard. Stake in her hand, she rushes from gravestone to gravestone, trying to feel the presence of the undead. Suddenly, a melody plays from her pocket. Her mobile phone. "Dammit", mutters Buffy.

"Yes, who's there? I'm kinda busy, you know." A sudden movement behind Buffy makes her turn around.Two vampires obviously heard her phone ringing and stand right before her. Buffy kicks the left one in stomach, striking for the other one with her stake.

"Cordelia! How have you been? No sorry, I'm not really in the mood for small talk. So what's the matter?" Buffy does a backflip to evade the vampires attack, attaining a defensive postion behind one of the gravestones.

"Permanent darkness, you say? Sounds interesting." The vampires now close in on Buffy from both sides. Buffy puts the hand that doesn't hold the mobile on the gravestone, pushes herself up, and with a spread of her legs kicks both the attacks in the face.

"Well, as you might know, we have our very own gate to a hell dimension here at Sunnydale." With that, she jumps one of her attackers who was pushed to the ground by her kick, and drives the stake through his heart. The vampire dissolves to a could of dust, but at that moment, the other vampire jumps Buffy from behind, pushing her to the ground.

"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous. Can't you deal with that on your own though? I thought you guys were like the Avangers of LA." Buffy rams her elbow into the attacking vampire's chest, then turn around to face him. His teeth draw closer to Buffy's throat.

"Okay, fine. We'll just leave the Hellmouth unattended for a couple of days. This better be worth it." Buffy's knee hits the vampire's private parts hard, and she uses his moment of pain to get on top of him.

"I'll tell the gang, sure. No problem. See you then." With that, see stakes the other attacker. Behind the gravestones she senses more movements. This is going to be a long night...


Day 1 starts! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (15): 2.71828....., Hydrad, chairs, EgorK, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 09, 2015, 12:00:40 pm
Yeey!

Going to be busy tonight, but I'm here!

Vote: Lekkit

Because swedish reasons.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 12:10:14 pm
Okay, claiming time.

I have a restriction which limits the amount of times I can vote per day. If I overstep this amount, bad things will happen. That's all I'll say about it.

I don't think it's a big deal, it basically just means I can't participate in RVS.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 09, 2015, 12:14:34 pm
Thoughts?

I think you're scum because of Futuramafia.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 09, 2015, 12:20:09 pm
Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 12:24:33 pm
Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.

OMGUS!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 12:25:23 pm
I think that while silverspawns claim basically says nothing, it's at least some kind of attempt to move away from RVS before it even happens. Aside from hockeysemlan...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 12:41:50 pm
It is good to be back.  :D

vote: hockeysemlan because I don't know you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 09, 2015, 12:54:38 pm
My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 12:58:51 pm
My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

subtle scum role fishing?

aren't flavor names indicative of roles for those who know the flavor?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 09, 2015, 03:08:22 pm
Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 09, 2015, 04:24:20 pm
vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 09, 2015, 04:29:01 pm
I for one feel like meeting people by flavor would be fun and interesting
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 09, 2015, 04:29:58 pm
Would it actually be a smart thing to do? Probably not
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 09, 2015, 04:53:10 pm
Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.

Vote: Ichi
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 05:23:39 pm
vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 05:26:20 pm
vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 05:34:18 pm
vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob
Hi silverspawn! I remember you.

Let's make it a good one.  :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 09, 2015, 05:34:35 pm
Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 05:35:34 pm
Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 09, 2015, 05:35:57 pm
My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 09, 2015, 05:36:22 pm
Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.

yay thats still one of my favorite games I've been in.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 05:38:43 pm
so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 05:39:02 pm
My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.

I'm with Hydrad on this one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 05:46:15 pm
Quote from: flavor
"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous.

I think there's a 'see' missing
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 09, 2015, 06:06:15 pm
I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 09, 2015, 06:08:45 pm
I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hai Yuma!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 09, 2015, 06:10:14 pm
 :(

Also. vote: Delerious Deleuze for lurking.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 09, 2015, 06:15:41 pm
On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 09, 2015, 06:15:56 pm
On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 06:23:34 pm
I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 09, 2015, 06:46:33 pm
so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of flavor claiming.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 06:50:11 pm
72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.

I think claiming this looks bad.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 09, 2015, 06:51:30 pm
Vote: Silverspawn for being all cautious.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 09, 2015, 06:52:14 pm
72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 06:52:21 pm
I'm not sure, I think there are two ways to look at it.

1) lynching later has a higher % to hit scum -> claiming is bad
2) using it day 1 means more information on future days -> claiming is good

I think it's up to ADK how to use his power, if he thinks claiming it right away is the best way, then that's okay. And it's too late to change that now anyway.

Doesn't make him an IC though.

I hope that this at least stops players from treating day 1 as not important. Day 1 is super important.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 06:52:54 pm
72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.

oh, right. that's a thing. Now I get it. Mh, yeah, that makes it look bad.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 09, 2015, 06:53:25 pm
ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 09, 2015, 07:41:51 pm
I am opposed to flavor claiming.  For all the reasons that everyone is usually opposed to flavor claiming.

And there are so many people in this game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 09, 2015, 07:48:21 pm
Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 09, 2015, 07:49:18 pm
Because if he can day-vig someone without announcing it in the thread and he told us about it?  I mean, I think ADK is town for now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 09, 2015, 10:09:41 pm
I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.

Scum or town, it doesn't matter as far as the vig goes, so long as we control the shot.

I like shooting today, even with the short time frame.  Like, if someone has zero posts, policy vig them.  (Except that person is probably town, because scum would post.)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 09, 2015, 11:06:17 pm
ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 10, 2015, 12:12:26 am
Also, why have some people not posted yet?

vote: Delirious Deleuze for one.

And because I haven't played with him  (I am pretty sure I haven't at least)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 10, 2015, 12:26:19 am
ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 12:29:27 am
I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 12:48:13 am
but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 01:01:19 am
but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am
but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 01:31:07 am
but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

If we knew how many scum there were, it would help in figuring this out.  But still, I don't think you are right.

In a 3 v 10 game, which is the f.ds norm, mafia is at its weakest on Day 1 in terms of wagon manipulation.  They're 3 of the 7 it takes to lynch.  On Day 2, if we mislynch and have a death, it's 6 to lynch and mafia is up to 50 percent.

I think the "extra" lynch coming on D1 is better, in a vacuum.

And again, it's a group decision, so it's not really a vig.  I think, given the claim, this is how we should use it.  Whether we use it on D1 or not, we'll see.  ADK can always make that call anyway.

The other way to use the dayvig is as a counterclaim cleaner -- that is, had he not claimed, and then later we had two people who were in opposition over a claim, ADK can just kill one to confirm the other.  That's off the table, as the power is out there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 10, 2015, 03:30:38 am
I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

This I sheep. We should shoot today, to dig out information is more valuable than keeping players alive. Sortof..

day-vig vote: mail-mi
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 04:52:57 am
If anyone were to flavor claim, ADK makes sense.  There seems to be a theory that role/alignment/flavor name may be tied together.  Easy way to test.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 10, 2015, 05:25:51 am
Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
Post by: faust on June 10, 2015, 06:14:52 am
Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (2): Hydrad, hockeysemlan

Not Voting (7): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.

day-vig vote: mail-mi

Note that, as per the rules, this counts as a valid vote.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 10, 2015, 06:30:35 am
Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 10, 2015, 07:01:59 am
I think I like using the dayvig today. It is basically an extra lynch, and even if we have to do it without much information, it should still be better than nothing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 07:17:43 am
I guess one way we can look at it is its an extra lynch and then using that info hopefully will have a more meaningful actual day 1 lynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am
so I'm in favor of it now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 10, 2015, 12:09:53 pm
The Day action window is now open. It closes at noon on June 12.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 12:14:26 pm
ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

So why do you want to save it?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 10, 2015, 12:17:29 pm
I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 12:24:38 pm
The whole flavor thing seems to me like one of those things that sounds good but isn't really helpful in practice. Presumably scum has fakeclaims.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 10, 2015, 01:10:16 pm
I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.

Problem is how likely ADK live until D2 in current conditions?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 10, 2015, 01:28:02 pm
Hmm. I don't really like how Hydrad hedges on the dayvig thing. It may not necessarily be scummy for him, but it feels like he's overly concerned about it.

I'm pretty null on ADK for now, considering he has to post his target in the thread.

And...Delueze still hasn't posted.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 01:31:38 pm
I have some serious doubts about scum ADK making this claim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 02:17:56 pm
Hi y'all! It's good to be back! I'm currently working and will be til a bit later in the afternoon.

In this short window, I'll just say I am for a vig shot. I think it'll give us extra information and also be decided by us. I doubt ADK will be alive tomorrow otherwise, too, and I think this is by something we want to be able to lose.

In lack of a more thorough read through, I'm by going to provide a vote until tonight, but I am getting a bad feeling from asherky and Hockey. I'll give a more detailed reading wig my thoughts tonight!

Sorry.

Also definitely not down for flavor claiming. At best it allows scum to get info and they can just lie to us if need be. I don't know if you all have a Buffy knowledge as large as mine, but lying would be fairly easy. Given that I think it's fairly irrelevant if ADK claims alone, because it doesn't make much of a change to the possibility of scum lying about their flavor role, also buffypedia is a thing to help those without flavor lie.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 02:35:50 pm
You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

I'll vigv0te: IG since that doesn't count as an actual vote.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 10, 2015, 03:01:49 pm
You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 03:08:51 pm
You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn

of course it is an argument, the chance that he's town is  > 50%
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 03:10:27 pm
Of course he's suggested it and then literally said nothing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 03:12:43 pm
I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 10, 2015, 03:18:34 pm
Yeah. After M61, I am significantly more wary of chairs. Thing is, lurking is like the perfect meta to have when you're scum--it's exceedingly easy to emulate.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 03:23:01 pm
Though I tend to consider claiming propositions to be more of a town thing than scum thing.  Not because they're inherently townie, but rather because scum almost never does it.  The major exception being Ashersky in Village Mafia, but there was a setup broken kind of thing there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 10, 2015, 03:37:21 pm
I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.

Well, obviously it's technically an argument, but it's an incredibly bad one. If chairs is scum, then not only do we give scum information about town PRs, we also enable a scum power.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 05:04:19 pm
After rereading the thread, here's my reads up to this point.

2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Hydrad:
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

3. chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.

I propose, then, that chairs either tells us his powers (if it provides a direct benefit today) and then we can discuss mass claiming (which I'm still against because I think the risk he is lying is far to great), or only ADK claims. If his power can do something from one name, great, it can do it here. We also have the possibility of testing ADK's name vs. his claimed role, and ADK is either scum or scum already knows he's town and his PR because of his claim so there's no chance of them gaining information.
 
EgorK:

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.

I think everybody is missing this... It seems like a mild claim, without incentivizing discussion. Why would he put this if he was town? I feel only scum would have incentive to hint at a PR, since it does town no good to isolate themselves if they have a PR, but scum is able to avoid being lynched by saying that they have a PR and refer back to early tells of it. Although his posting is sparse (I can't judge), he feels slightly scummy.

Ichimaru Gin: Not trying to OMGUS, but you point me out for lurking three times in your 4 (or was it 5) posts. I don't know why you're so caught up on me when other people haven't posted at all, either, at the time you said that...? Then again, I don't think such baseless pointing out or trying to make a wagon is something scum would do, it seems to obvious. Overall, I feel very neutral. Perhaps slightly leaning scum, but not enough to really know.

Witherweaver: I feel his posts are for the most part sparse and non-committal. The biggest thing I get here is that he's opposed to chair's claim, although he seems to nudge against that at the end of page 5. Its way to early to really tell, but I don't think they're on a team. I feel like WW would be pushing for mass claim if they were both scum, be against it if he was town and chairs was scum, and be for it if he was scum and chairs was town (unless he somehow knew the power would be good today and he wouldn't have the chance to kill him at night). That being said, I think WW is town, for now.

silverspawn: I'm getting a strong town vibe here. Everything he's posted has been thought out and looking for the interest of the town. I was at first rather skeptical because of the end of the fifth page when he seems to be saying there was an argument for mass claiming (I generally don't think there is, unless the power is good and claimed, maybe even not then (see above)), but in rereading it feels like he was just hinting at the possibility that the power could be really good and effect the game now, which is how I feel. Overall I feel town here.


ashersky: After rereading, I lost my feeling about him. Originally I ran through the threads during a short lunch at work, but after rereading again in the comfort of my home, I feel I was rash. I originally felt weird about him because his comment against Mail-mi:

[quote author=ashersky link=topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741 date=1433910567

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?
[/quote]

I felt it was a little aggressive, but I realize it's not and simply pointing out that mail-mi really didn't defend his point here and just baselessly said something. I don't have much of a read here.


hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey.


Ghacob: He's posted like twice during RVS and nothing serious... So I don't know.

A Drowned Kernel: I think I elaborated above, but I feel ADK is town. I don't think scum vig would have incentive to use the shot publicly, since they could hold onto it for the right moment to sneak in a win. The worst case here is that he is scum and is trying to push a mislynch and still appear townie because he let the town decide where to shoot, but even then I think that's a bit of a stretch and less strategic. That alone gives me the town vibe, but I'm still suspicious. I think we should intelligently use the shot and still be wary, but for now I feel he's town.

Awaclus: I get a town vibe here. We agree on a lot of points and I think pushing the vig shot for information and being against mass claiming in fear of scum!chairs or scum getting information is a usually townie trait.

Lekkit:
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that covers my opinion on every issue. Sorry for the wall of text.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 05:17:05 pm
Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey

wall of text

I'm so glad to have you in this game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 05:20:43 pm
Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 10, 2015, 05:35:30 pm
Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

Well, we have to decide on the vig target before the actual lynch, so it would make sense to vigv0te first.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 05:40:11 pm
Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

We're also on a pretty strict time limit, the window for day actions closes in <48 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 05:42:03 pm
Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 05:42:56 pm
Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW

Except he said he thought I was town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 05:46:43 pm
Except he said he thought I was town.

oh uhm never mind.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 05:50:28 pm
I'm an IC to you now, right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 05:52:50 pm
Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 05:55:43 pm
That wasn't his first game.. he had two or three town games before that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 pm
Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 06:04:18 pm
Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.

yeah, the SK

I'm an IC to you now, right?
QT of that game is hilarious, even without any context.
yes. oh wait, no.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 10, 2015, 06:04:37 pm
look how good I am at inserting quotes.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 06:08:19 pm
Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.

I did realize that me voting you for that could be read as discouraging people from posting with content, but, hey, I thought it was scummy so I voted. 

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 06:14:27 pm
I mean, okay? Good for you? I still think it's kind of discouraging people from long posts. Also very baseless seeing as I'm was literally attempting to read everybody as evidence from the fact that I... Read everybody. Also if you actually read my post a lot of the reads included the fact that I wasn't sure because of a lack of content.

Either way, I'm not going to defend myself for providing my thoughts on everyone in the game. If you think my reads were wrong, let me know and provide counter thoughts, but don't just say I'm scum because I'm attempting to provide thoughts and discussion.

Sorry if this is coming off as annoyed. I spent like an hour trying to actually provide meaningful discussion and you kind of ignored it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on my arguments so we can work together to try to figure out the best course of action, even if you think I'm scum. Keep your vote, but provide discussion.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 06:21:34 pm
Well there seems to be this perception that voting someone is the same as discouraging their playstyle, and that's not really how it works.  I want you to keep posting, especially if you're scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 06:23:13 pm
It's also possible that I'm confusing a style that's simply you with a style that's your scum play.  I don't remember you quite posting that way before your MU game, but I could very well be mistaken there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 06:29:04 pm
I mean I'm fairly sure I did in the other games, but it's probably not memorable because I was vanilla town and died like D1/D2 both games.

That said, I think it your reason for voting for someone is that their play style... Like literally the fact I tried to read everyone... Is scummy, that does discourage it, because you're saying that scum would be the ones incentivized to provide analytic readings of everyone, and not regular town... Who I think more than anyone should provide long posts with lots of reads.

Either way, my arguments remain. I'd like to hear people's thoughts about the claiming options
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 06:38:06 pm
ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 10, 2015, 06:50:46 pm
ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 06:53:51 pm
whoa I've never seen you in a game before DeDe but now I want you in all of them! your town for today at least for effort alone.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 07:05:52 pm
ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?

I think going after you for what he did was scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 10, 2015, 07:09:01 pm
I don't know what that means.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 07:19:15 pm
I don't know what that means.

Sorry, I don't know how to convert it to metric.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 10, 2015, 08:01:45 pm
mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 10, 2015, 08:25:48 pm
mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 09:59:27 pm
mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

I'm with Awaclus on this one.

ADK, shoot away.  People should at least get their thoughts down on who he shoots.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 10, 2015, 10:00:05 pm
Also, for the record, I think I'd be tempted to shoot one of the players I can never figure out, or that would be dangerous as scum, or that we wouldn't miss as town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 10:06:57 pm
I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 10, 2015, 10:40:11 pm
I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 10, 2015, 11:19:02 pm
I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 11:33:24 pm
I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?

gut feeling plus I kinda like mail-mi and at least want other people to consider options instead of how it feels its going and eveyrones just jumping on mail-mi for an easy vig with little info.

And I also don't like voting DD as that was a really good post with a bunch of info. I really dislike how hes being seen as scummy because of it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 11:55:44 pm
I am feeling the WW lynch a little bit. But we do have some time at least, I'd like to get as much discussion in as possible before I shoot some one.

I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus

Any particular reason?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 11:57:15 pm
Also I don't get why people don't like Dede for posting a lot of reads right off that bat, especially since as he said a number of those reads were null. He's providing content. That's towny. Yeah it's fakeable as scum but he's jumping into the game and getting it going.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 10, 2015, 11:58:11 pm
Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 11, 2015, 12:04:36 am
mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

This is RMM. Anything can happen at night. Redirects, doctors, scum want to kill someone else, etc. etc. Not saying that we can count on any of those things, but I think it would be beneficial to wait and wish that ADK hadn't claimed so that we could do just that.

...however, I am in the minority (and by "minority" I mean "minority of one") and it seems that the vig is inevitable. And...

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

...I'm in agreement with that and will vigv0te: ashersky
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 12:09:00 am
I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 12:12:32 am
Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:21:05 am
I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
Funny.
I don't like you saying "of course it will feel forced". So you're admitting to forcing it?
Please don't try to act like people are discouraging contribution or are against reads posts--those are clearly good things. I mean, the stuff you say "you're still of the opinion of" comprises pretty much the entire game. However, having a huge post with detailed reads on people is not so great this early in the game.
Me saying it feels "forced" e.g. artificial is not an ad homimen attack--why would you try to frame it that way? You're trying to play up how townie you are in a way that doesn't feel natural to me. Nothing wrong with me expressing that. I don't like that that you immediately default to trying to defend yourself with something like this either.

Oh. But I am adding to the discussion. And I have a growing scumread on you. Looks to me like you're trying to shutdown discussion and put out fires created by your reads post which you expected would get you town credit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:24:52 am
To be fair, you do have some content in that reads post that is good. I will address some of that in a bit.
However, you do also draw some--necessarily broad because of how early in the game it is--conclusions about people that aren't all that helpful.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 11, 2015, 12:43:51 am
Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

I think there's even less incentive for scum to. It might be poor town play but it's not necessarily scum play.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 02:36:14 am
DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 02:37:28 am
Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 11, 2015, 02:51:42 am
DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?

oh that doesn't really mean anything. Basically I just didn't want to die before the game really even started thats all i meant there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 03:06:59 am
Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey


Wait, fine, now we are. Not when I wrote it and went away all day yesterday. Now has everything changed and I trying to keep up the best I can.

Vigv0te: mail-mi

I don't like what he tries to do. We cannot trust the night actions to protect anyone. We need the vig today or risk it to be useless.

I don't know how to treat the vote from DeDe. His reasoning is pretty legit, I've been away and why not go for the inactive players, but it's no real case and he probably realize that soon. This is a hard game for new players and I hope that can be an understandable reason to be a little more lurking. I try to provide content as soon as I can. but in the start I just want to to try to not mess things up. Hope that's okey.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 08:30:01 am
I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 08:31:16 am
Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 09:11:28 am
Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 09:29:33 am
I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)

I don't follow why everyone thinks it's so townie.  It sounds like people are just applying "lots of text => content => townie".  Almost everything saying sounds to me like neutral and nonstatements.  "This happened, then this happend, which could be this.  But on the other hand that.  Let's say {town, scum, null} for now".   Yes, he has null reads, but why do you need to say all that much stuff to say there are null reads?  Most feel completely arbitrary:

Quote
Lekkit:
Quote from: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

I don't understand how DeDe is is drawing anything from this; it seems entirely alignment agnostic.  It sounds like "hm, I need a scum read, let's toss it in this slot".

Quote
2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Why does defending players lead to towniness?  I think you could just as easily conclude "scum" here.

Quote
Hydrad:
Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am
right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am
so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

I mainly don't understand the "This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say."  It sounds like something anyone would say, town or scum.  I also don't see "He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters."  Also "I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch," is obvious and a statement that has nothing to do with this game or the player's alignments---it's a setup/theory discussion---so why does it make him townie?

Okay I don't want to keep going and make this huge.. Chairs has two big paragraphs that seems to not say anything... he thinks EgorK soft claiming a PR is suspcious, because...?  This is RMM, the chance EgorK has a role as town or scum is pretty high.  He says ADK is town, which I agree, but that's kind of an empty statement.  Plus it's a "town but hey we should be suspicious and make sure we all act very towny in regards to his ability" kind of statement.  I don't really buy his argument for wanting to lynch Mail-Mi.  What's the scum narrative for wanting to save the shot, exactly?  Because he's really afraid he'll be the one to get shot and plans to kill him tonight, when he's probably sure there are some kinds of protective roles?  Doesn't seem to fit. 

However:

Quote
hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey

This I actually think sounds more townie. 

His responses since his post haven't seemed scummy, either.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 09:30:13 am
Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

This sounds like town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 09:36:08 am
Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

Well I kind of addressed this, but:

I don't think EgorK's was sketchy.  Well, maybe sketchy in that it's all he's said so far.

Chairs: I trust that if Chairs thought it was beneficial for him to claim, he would.  Actually I would be interesting in hearing what Chairs has to say about it. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 11, 2015, 09:39:49 am
Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog when Delirious Deleuze accused him of singling him out for lurking seems like defensive scum to me. I doubt it's a heavy case of tunnel vision. I've been there as the paranoid scum, and I think that's what this is.

Vigv0te: Ichimaru Gin

Regardless of how forced DD's reads are. They are still something to look at. Opinions are what we have to go on. I think that regardless of how strong the reads are. It's what makes me want to lynch him the least out of the guys we've heard from.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 11, 2015, 10:25:12 am
Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.

Maybe because I've grown up a bit and am less sheepy and am starting to get an opinion of my own. And also it's my first game back so I'm a little unsure and hedgey.

I'll be gone for the rest of the day mostly, so I'm going to claim now so y'all don't vig me. I am Cordelia chase, and I'm a messenger/oracle/something else that I think is unwise to claim this early.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 11:02:17 am
FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 11, 2015, 11:33:23 am
Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

IG stands out as scummy as well
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 11, 2015, 11:38:52 am
FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.

Well it's not, because I am indeed town.

IG seems to be getting a little bit of tunnel vision on DD, and he seems a bit scummy, so I'm going to vigv0te: IG
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 11:55:23 am
generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced."
Why is everyone ignoring this? This is probably the #1 thing that makes me think DeDe is scum right now. It's such a clear attempt to misinterpret what I was actually saying.

That, and now load of people are defending him and attacking me for having a scumread on him. Yeah, I'm sticking to my guns--I don't care how unpopular it is. I'm trusting my gut on this one. I've gotten burned too many times going along with others.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:05:25 pm
This backlash is intriguing to me. Do we just fundamentally disagree about what is scummy/townie behavior?

Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog
What does this mean?
Are you referrring to my qualifying post that not all of DeDe's reads list was unhelpful?
Yet you're simultaneously accusing me of having "tunnel-vision" or unable to see other ways of interpreting DeDe's actions--sounds pretty contradictory to me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 11, 2015, 12:10:36 pm
What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 11, 2015, 12:12:57 pm
Also, I'm going to Germany tomorrow and have some stuff to do tonight. I probably won't be able to be active again until sunday evening or more realistically monday.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 11, 2015, 12:13:39 pm
I swear I've tried starting a post for over a page of content now
unv0te
I don't see scum mail mi being this confident
their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new. That being said, as they said, this is their first game back so back down to basically null I guess


ashersky, you're really pushing hard on this
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:15:18 pm
What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?

Specifically, I thought this was pretty good.
chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.
It seems like he's really considering all the options here in a pretty townie fashion. It's good to be cautious with stuff like this--speaking as someone who is normally overeager to claim. Interestingly, WW skipped this part when he was addressing DeDe's post. I thought this was the most solid part of the reads list. Chairs still hasn't posted once since then I don't think--maybe he's just waiting it out?

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 12:18:24 pm
I don't buy that analysis.. I don't think scum!Chairs is any more likely to say what he did than town!Chairs is.  I actually, I think it's more likely the other way.  Even if a mass flavor claim is a bad idea, I don't think that makes Chairs scummy for asking what people think about it. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:19:53 pm
Yep. Chairs only has one post. This.

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
I might actually prefer chairs...
Even with his lurking though, it seems like people never want to lynch him. He barely got any suspicion in M61 as scum.

PPE: WW In a vacuum, I might agree with you. Chairs literally hasn't posted anything since then though. He's not VLA is he?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 11, 2015, 12:23:22 pm
chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 12:23:43 pm
Yeah, it's the big problem with heavy lurkers.  Lynching provides little information and it feels like you're not really doing anything.  Letting them live makes it hard to figure things out late game. 

Prod: Chairs
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:24:27 pm
chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
I didn't check his profile, but yeah, that's what it means. Hmm. He could just be busy IRL then I guess.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 11, 2015, 12:29:33 pm
Prod: Chairs

Prod sent.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:29:54 pm
Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

sure

Vote Count 1.2

Awaclus (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
Ichimaru Gin (3): silverspawn, Lekkit, mail-mi
Delirious Deleuze (1): Witherweaver
mail-mi (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Egork
hockeysemlan (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (5): Ichimaru Gin, e, chairs, Ghacob, ashersky

and ash is voting for WW if you count the syntax

no guarantees
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:32:05 pm
I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 11, 2015, 12:33:46 pm
Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (2): Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (9): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:33:52 pm
I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:34:41 pm
It was supposed to be "vig vote count," not "vote count 1.2"
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:36:54 pm
So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:37:44 pm
I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P
I just realized I don't know how to spell Delirous.
You're harsh silver  :(

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:38:25 pm
Damn. I still can't get it right!
Let me try slowly.

Delirious.
Whew.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 pm
So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.
AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
/s
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:42:54 pm
Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:48:13 pm
You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:49:23 pm
You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi
ok. That's pretty cool actually.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 12:50:25 pm
Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

because I don't feel like it's such a big deal. He made that comment in response to this:

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

you do ignore everything he says and just says he feels forced, so...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 12:51:45 pm
Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 12:57:05 pm
Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

He's wrong, but wrong isn't the same as scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 01:11:29 pm
Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 01:14:07 pm
Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 01:15:11 pm
Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.

well I agree that you didn't attack him as a person. But I fail to see how he is scummy because of it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 01:17:33 pm
Well...if he actually believes that (or pretends to believe it). How is that not scummy?
It's trying to take things to an emotional or personal level that just isn't there--and basically absolving himself of having to provide a real defense.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 01:18:16 pm
Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 01:21:49 pm
Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
Thank you.

I agree that it's not something that only scum would do. DeDe hasn't been around in a little while either. So guess we'll see what he has to say when he returns.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 01:31:35 pm
Okay. I read up on the last 2 days of posts (long story re: RL busyness, but by Wednesday I should be a regular poster at least on weekdays). I now agree that my desire to flavor claim should probably be negated by the benefit it could provide scum.

I also agree I should really try to lurk less. It was unintentionally beneficial in M61, but obviously continued lurking after that win should ultimately lead to my demise (regardless of my alignment) in future games.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 01:33:03 pm
Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 01:34:18 pm
[Snipped]

This is the post I was talking about.

vote: Delirious Deleuze
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 01:35:10 pm
Chairs is totes town for me today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 01:48:12 pm
Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 01:52:31 pm
I mean it helps no one just to have said:

"I think hockey and mail-I'm are scum. Now, I'm beginning to think ichi is scum, and have a cautious look at WW."

Because that provides no info.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 01:54:03 pm
Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
Dude. Why so snippy? Why do you have a problem with me saying your reads are forced when you literally say "yes my reads are forced"?
Unwarranted! Dude, I'm calling you out and you don't like it; plain and simple. I can say whatever I like within the bounds of civility (which everyone is well within).

"At least I base mine in evidence". Dude. What evidence? Lackluster, spare evidence that we have right now. You still seem very slippery to me. I've discussed other subjects than you and have also provided content--but of course you'd pretend otherwise.
I like real vote: DeDe now if I wasn't already.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 01:58:58 pm
Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 02:02:25 pm
Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 02:03:04 pm
Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

Okay, thanks for saying it at least.

I try to provide reasons. I guess we're different. That's fine.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 02:20:04 pm
<i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.

teh scumzlipz
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 02:22:25 pm
If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 02:26:11 pm
Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 02:41:48 pm
Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.

Well, I went ahead and put this in my personal QT as my reasoning, and I'll go ahead and throw it in here. scum!ash feels more likely to try to shotgun on D1, whereas town!ash really seems to tunnel like a madman on D1. To me, ash feels more shotgunny.

I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's what I'm triggering off of for him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 02:49:32 pm
Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 02:55:05 pm
Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 11, 2015, 03:00:42 pm
I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 11, 2015, 03:05:33 pm
If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.

Why would you need to use <i> in your personal QT though?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 03:07:29 pm
I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 03:09:23 pm
I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
+++
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 03:10:36 pm
Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.

I think you're all missing the point that large reads like that, even early on is a way to get things going. You closely read things and draw impressions, that way you an point things out and try to have a place to start. That's how content gets started to be made... Like there is literally no bright line for when you say we should start doing it. When is it late enough to?!

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Sarcasm aside in your post, you should do that. That way people can see where you stand on intepretting things and your thoughts get posted. Then we will have content because people... Guess what... PROVIDED CONTENT! It doesn't magically appear, and thinking that there just comes a point when there's enough is foolish. If you want a game with a lot of content, discussions, and reads then provide it.

And literally the fact that ichi even said I had good points PROVES THIS. It wasn't all wasted. There was good content.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 03:12:00 pm
Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 03:19:02 pm
Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 03:20:21 pm
Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 03:21:58 pm
Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

True. This is why I said 60% rather than 75% :P
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 11, 2015, 03:24:06 pm
Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 03:29:46 pm
Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 11, 2015, 03:50:50 pm
Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?

No, I'm always trying to get town cred.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 04:17:32 pm
I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 04:18:42 pm
vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 04:24:38 pm
vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 04:46:49 pm
vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.

I still think mail-mi is a better vig vote, though. I'm very suspicious on him wanting to save the vig vote. He is just assuming we have protection and will use it on ADK, which may be possible since we all have PRs, but still makes me very nervous he's risk it. I feel like having assured information is very important at this point in the game.

I don't feel ash is scum. I think that he is pushing hard for a D1 vig because it's kind of necessary now. I don't feel that it's a scummy move.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 04:48:09 pm
Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 04:56:56 pm
Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?

It's something I can work with, yes.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 05:10:21 pm
vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 05:21:09 pm
Just quit reminding us you're new with every post  8)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 11, 2015, 05:41:13 pm
Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 05:43:05 pm
vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 05:48:09 pm
Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob

This is actually a good point. Why does his low posting make him agreeing with me being scummy seem like he is more scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 05:59:43 pm

Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ghacob on June 11, 2015, 06:07:52 pm
No time to do a reads list right now, real life is happening
When is the deadline for the vig? We have one day left, right?

PPE: 3

really quick go through, to be expanded on later:
hockey: give me a few days (game in progress)
chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean
DeDe: could easily be late town, or planned scum behavior, overall null
WW: towny, clearly a good player
e - post more maybe?
egorK: hasn't done too much other than blend in
IG: very slight scum for dumb meta reading reasons, I usually don't like him and am suspicious of him when he's town, I don't feel as such now, therefor I'm suspicious
Real life: Very scummy
Forum game: null/slight town, going to have to return to this one later

I'll be back at some point with more detail and a finished list
PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 11, 2015, 06:14:27 pm
their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new.

So you needed a remainder, huh?

PPE: about 3 pages
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:15:35 pm
I usually don't like him
:(
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 11, 2015, 06:16:38 pm
I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 06:24:47 pm
chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean

I've been trying to figure this out. The best flavor I can come up with is that he is some sort of watcher-esque player. Probably able to tell the PR from the flavor name (like consulting the books) or is able to tell if they're lying or something. I'm not sure. That would mean Giles, Westley, or another watcher from the show. He could also be someone like Willow who did a lot of research... Then again, a lot of the big bads also were able to know things based on the names of villians (everyone knew The Master, or Spike, or Angelus, etc.), so I have no idea. I don't think we'll be able to determine who he is from the scant info we know.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 11, 2015, 06:29:16 pm
I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 06:31:32 pm

Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!

Have you been reading old games or something?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 11, 2015, 06:33:12 pm
I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still

I don't understand why you think Mail-Mi is scummy.  So far I think only Ash presented a real case; everyone else was disagreeing with Mail-Mi on theory issues and therefore wanting to vig him, which seems bad to me.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:38:53 pm
I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still
Please. DD pushed me first--I was just responding to him. I engaged with him, and his last couple posts have been more townie. If everyone is just going to defend him, there's no point in pushing a wagon doomed to fail either. I'm just one man.

Frankly, your inconsistency and doubletalk is annoying. If I was still as fervid about DD as ever, you'd find me scummy for continuing to "tunnel" him or whatever--you'll spin everything to support your existing read on me. Bad feels about Egork right now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:41:54 pm
I also recall nothing scummy about mail-mi. Have you even played with Ghacob before? Cause considering the games I have played with him, he reads pretty null to me here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:42:49 pm
I like vote: EgorK. Pushing bad wagons and has me down as a "safe" backup vote.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:45:04 pm
Wow. Rereading him, I can't say he's not consistent. He does express little scumreads on me and Ghacob at least early on, but he has very little content.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 11, 2015, 06:46:11 pm
Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 11, 2015, 06:50:02 pm

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 06:53:44 pm
I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.
I fail to see how this is the case. I don't play this game passively. People need to be pressured so their reactions can be gauged.
When I first started playing, I was exceedingly timid and saw that no one listened to me--and I wasn't really helping.
I don't think I've been especially aggressive this game at all. I just find people's attempts to paint me insufferable. I'm not the only aggressive player 'round these parts either...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 06:56:14 pm
chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean

I've been trying to figure this out. The best flavor I can come up with is that he is some sort of watcher-esque player. Probably able to tell the PR from the flavor name (like consulting the books) or is able to tell if they're lying or something. I'm not sure. That would mean Giles, Westley, or another watcher from the show. He could also be someone like Willow who did a lot of research... Then again, a lot of the big bads also were able to know things based on the names of villians (everyone knew The Master, or Spike, or Angelus, etc.), so I have no idea. I don't think we'll be able to determine who he is from the scant info we know.

tl;dr my role only functions on a certain subset of players, and flavor name (if honestly given) lets me know if it will work on you. It's... weird. I'm not sure whether to use it much, honestly, because I think if I use it on the wrong player we could end up with things going poorly.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 11, 2015, 07:00:13 pm
Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 07:01:21 pm
Yep. I'm switching to vigv0te: hockey as well.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 07:16:00 pm
Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey

really? for making no sense? you think a noob is going to be purposefully stubborn as scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 11, 2015, 07:21:32 pm
Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey

really? for making no sense? you think a noob is going to be purposefully stubborn as scum?

I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 11, 2015, 07:23:41 pm
that's possible. pretty bold, though. In my first scum game, I tried to be as active and helpful as possible, rather than doing crazy stuff.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 08:38:15 pm
that's possible. pretty bold, though. In my first scum game, I tried to be as active and helpful as possible, rather than doing crazy stuff.

We're not all you. In my first scum game (SK) I was kind of a pansy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 08:45:53 pm
Does anyone have a vote count? That was a lot of vigv0tes for hockey and I want to make sure there can't be a hammer out of nowhere. We have some time for the window so we should use it.

I think hockey is being overly sensitive to people calling him out and not taking hard stances on anything. I feel that's a really new scum thing to do. Especially since, if I'm correct, he hasn't been in almost any games at all. I think that he's scum, but there is an off change he's just a bad new townie (though I think it's unlikely).

I'm also still feeling mail-mi moreso, though. He's been fairly absent, but in his last 4 posts he's switched his vote 3 times. Every time he's switched his vote, it's been for a short one sentence reason, and always has been on someone who already had a semi-wagon going on them. That seems like a very scummy thing to do. I'm still feeling a vig vote here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 11, 2015, 08:47:39 pm
Does anyone have a vote count? That was a lot of vigv0tes for hockey and I want to make sure there can't be a hammer out of nowhere. We have some time for the window so we should use it.

I'm kind of an idiot.

That being said, don't shoot just yet ADK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 09:38:34 pm
I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
Yeah. Hockey feels differently than the other game I played with him--but that one is ongoing--so I don't know if that's scummy or townie.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 11, 2015, 09:55:07 pm
I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
Yeah. Hockey feels differently than the other game I played with him--but that one is ongoing--so I don't know if that's scummy or townie.

Please don't discuss other ongoing games.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 09:57:56 pm
Oops. Is that actually "discussing" ongoing games?
It just means I can't say anything and won't know anything until unnamed ongoing game is ended.
I'm fairly certain people have said stuff like this before. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 10:02:43 pm
Hmm. Guess I just never personally ran into this rule before, but yeah, I get it now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 11, 2015, 10:05:41 pm
Yeah, my general feelings about hockey are slight scum here.

He has this interesting combination of playing relatively confidently (I pretty much agree with ADK's assessment)--while also playing the noob card when he wants to.
It also sounds like he's going back and reading a lot of older games pretty thoroughly--well enough to reference player metas fairly well. It seems like a pretty advantageous way to play as scum. I'd say doing that removes a fair amount of breaks that I would normally give a new player.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 11, 2015, 10:30:54 pm
sorry, I haven't been able to post very much.  Work, golf, life, happens.  I have tomorrow off and should be able to get some good thoughts down over the weekend.

Anyway, I think DeDe is townie.  I absolutely love long reads posts/lists/whatever.  I know it doesn't mean he is town necessarily, but it means he is willing to put his opinions out there and post about important stuff.  And that is worth keeping around at least another day. 

silverspawn is turning into a D1 don't lynch type of player imo.  You know, kind of like Robz or yuma were. 

chairs is chairs.

vigs gonna vig

Hockey and Ghacob are both in their first RMM game, so lets keep them around for a day.  We can always lynch them tomorrow.

Need to reread more to figure out where I stand on other people.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 11:28:08 pm
I thought I posted, but it isn't here, so I must have lost it...

Basically, I said I think ghacob and hockey are on the scummy end of the spectrum.

I put DD and ADK on the D1 pass list.

I wanted more out of chairs and EgorK.

I think silverspawn is playing up his scum traits, not sure why though.

Oh!  And I had a big paragraph on IG.  Basically, IG reads like he's fighting with faust.  But faust isn't playing.  Which is to say, he's posting like he usually does, so whomever it was that was saying IG seems more aggressive this game is wrong, in my opinion.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 11, 2015, 11:31:36 pm
Imma Voltaire this:

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Strikethroughs are off the lynch list for D1.  2.7 because he's always useful later, and it looks like he'll be more active soon.  IG for reasons I just stated.  Me because me.  ADK based on his claim today.  Lekkit because I'm glad he's back and want him around for longer.  DD for reasons I've started up to now.

That leaves nine players, from who I'd support a ADKvig and a lynch.  Players with D1 scum reads (that is, about as scum read as you can get for just D1) are WW, hockey, Ghacob, mail-mi.  Townish but not yet POE'd into safety include chairs, SS, Awaclus.  Too null for schull are Hydrad, EgorK, WW.

I think the vig ought to come from the scummy or null pile; lynch from the scummy pile.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 12:10:50 am
woo POE

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Hmm I kinda did this on a whim but I think this is where I stand right now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 12:16:19 am
woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 12:20:21 am
woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?

Excuse me.  Hydrad*

Some things slip past after 3 beers
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 12:28:10 am
woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?

partly because you havn't done much this game yet. I know you've been busy but i'm going to need some reasons to think your townyish to cross you off first. right now you kinda have 1 post with info.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 12:55:06 am
Hydard

Official new name.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 02:40:16 am

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK? 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 12, 2015, 03:18:34 am
Hydard

Official new name.

This a little bit mean, no?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 12, 2015, 03:23:23 am
About mail-mi. I think he is experienced enough player to know that ADK won't likely live through the night to suggest delaying vig. Actually I think ADK won't live through the night even if he vigs today on the chance that he is not 1-shot vig/has also shot at night. On the other hand I do not believe mail-mi could sway ADK off this decision either, and he should understand that as well. Now I am confused
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 03:51:46 am
About mail-mi. I think he is experienced enough player to know that ADK won't likely live through the night to suggest delaying vig. Actually I think ADK won't live through the night even if he vigs today on the chance that he is not 1-shot vig/has also shot at night. On the other hand I do not believe mail-mi could sway ADK off this decision either, and he should understand that as well. Now I am confused

don't you love when you start typing out your thoughts and by the time your done your views have completely changed? I've done it a few times. Slight town from this though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 03:52:32 am
Hydard

Official new name.

This a little bit mean, no?

Don't worry I'm not taking offense from something like that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 04:36:51 am
Why is it mean?  Just sounds funny.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 06:37:35 am
Vote Count 1.3

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (2): 2.71828....., chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
Ghacob (1): hockeysemlan
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin

Not Voting (7): EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, ashersky

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
The Day action window closes in less than 6 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 07:26:45 am
Vigv0te: hockey

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 08:10:22 am
Vote: hockey
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 08:39:29 am
so, hockey

first thing was that promised to do better than reinoe even though he's new
then he voted (2nd) for mali mi who was against shooting
then DeDe calls him the scummiest player for basically that (he only has a hand full of posts)
he says this
I don't know how to treat the vote from DeDe. His reasoning is pretty legit, I've been away and why not go for the inactive players, but it's no real case and he probably realize that soon. This is a hard game for new players and I hope that can be an understandable reason to be a little more lurking. I try to provide content as soon as I can. but in the start I just want to to try to not mess things up. Hope that's okey.

After that, he suddenly gets weird. he keeps reiterating that he's new, that DeDe makes good points, and just reacts weirdly to pressure altogether. To me, this looks like he's just not used to people calling him scummy, which makes a lot of sense. Probably more likely to come from first time scum, but not necessarily.

Then he starts collecting a lot of votes, makes his joke comment about WW always being scum, and collects some more votes. finally this


You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK?

Again, could be first time scum, but could also be town who is just under pressure for the first time. I don't think he's a great lynch, but he's okay-ish. I guess that's good enough for so early in day 1? I'm fine with shooting him. I don't really have anyone else I'm feeling substantially more scummy about atm.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 08:47:29 am
Also briefly reread ash - I don't think I've ever seen him being so conventionally pro town and helpful. no idea what that says about his alignment.

not that he's a valid target for shooting anyway, I was just curious.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 08:48:29 am
I don't know if that's a compliment or not.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 09:04:09 am
Imma Voltaire this:

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Strikethroughs are off the lynch list for D1.  2.7 because he's always useful later, and it looks like he'll be more active soon.  IG for reasons I just stated.  Me because me.  ADK based on his claim today.  Lekkit because I'm glad he's back and want him around for longer.  DD for reasons I've started up to now.

That leaves nine players, from who I'd support a ADKvig and a lynch.  Players with D1 scum reads (that is, about as scum read as you can get for just D1) are WW, hockey, Ghacob, mail-mi.  Townish but not yet POE'd into safety include chairs, SS, Awaclus.  Too null for schull are Hydrad, EgorK, WW.

I think the vig ought to come from the scummy or null pile; lynch from the scummy pile.

I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 09:05:28 am
Actually I more or less agree with this, except I would not cross e off and maybe cross Chairs off. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 09:09:29 am
I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.

You are a conundrum.

Or a force.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 09:10:13 am

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK?

It's scummy because it betrays you as actively thinking about how your response to DeDe voting you will look, in terms of OMGUS, etc.  Your reverse OMGUS itself looked scummy; that you're pointing it out makes it worse, not better.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 09:10:27 am
I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.

You are a conundrum.

Or a force.

As long as I'm measured in Newtons.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 09:23:49 am
When does the window close :) I have some thoughts I want to get out before the vig shot goes off, but I'm running into work now!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 09:34:39 am
I don't know if that's a compliment or not.

maybe... the key word was 'conventionally' though, I think doing crazy stuff like you used to can work in town's favor too.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 09:35:17 am
When does the window close :) I have some thoughts I want to get out before the vig shot goes off, but I'm running into work now!

I think it closes at 11 am forum time, that's only 1,5 hours

based on faust's 'less than 6 hours' comment
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 09:36:25 am
Day action window closes at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 10:05:56 am
Okay real glad I asked.

DO NOT VIG OR LYNCH HOCKEY. He is town. He and I are masons and planned to make a wagon on him to see who would jump on it. We figured we could garner some information off of it.

I think everyone should go back through to see who helped push his wagon besides me. It makes me very suspicious of mail-mi who jumped on at the beginning and disappeared and ash somewhat. I feel ichi, ADK, WW, and SS are town.

Still at work, can't say much more, but yeah he's town, don't kill him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 10:10:42 am
D1 mason claim? Wat
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 12, 2015, 10:12:35 am
Okay real glad I asked.

DO NOT VIG OR LYNCH HOCKEY. He is town. He and I are masons and planned to make a wagon on him to see who would jump on it. We figured we could garner some information off of it.

I think everyone should go back through to see who helped push his wagon besides me. It makes me very suspicious of mail-mi who jumped on at the beginning and disappeared and ash somewhat. I feel ichi, ADK, WW, and SS are town.

Still at work, can't say much more, but yeah he's town, don't kill him.

Hm. vigunvote. I'm very willing to believe this claim for today.

I disappeared because I was busy all day.

I think I'll go back to vigv0te: IG
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 10:13:17 am
Yeah...

If it's true, we get an IC.

I find very little utility in that claim, though.  I don't see it helping scum, either, as a fake.  Unless we are dealing with multiple bad guy teams that are small?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 10:13:32 am
Was he intentionally acting scummy? Because that kind of undermines the purpose a little bit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 10:19:01 am
I believe DeDe.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 10:20:43 am
Yeah, not going to shoot either of those two today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 10:20:59 am
Will be back for a bit more before deadline.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 10:21:29 am
I confirm!

We tried to fabricate a wagon on me to get some reads but, eh, the presence of the vig ruined it quite a bit, since that worked completly different than an ordinary lynch.

Sorry for the mess.

And WW, I only intentionelly acted scared newb, it's not my fault that everyone treats that as scummy..

PPE: 3
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 10:23:31 am
Was he intentionally acting scummy? Because that kind of undermines the purpose a little bit.

Tried to play up his newbieness because we figured scum would push that as him being scum even though it could be just him being new.

But that being said, ADK who do you think is a good shot? I'm leaning mail-mi right now.

WW and Silver seem to be getting stronger and stronger on my town read.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 10:28:46 am
I really don't want to shoot the only person that has claimed with a vig shot.  I mean, at least let him full claim and we can lynch him or something

I actually like a vigv0te: WW more than anyone else who has been bandied around.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 10:29:23 am
Wrong.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 10:31:59 am
also, unvote my initial vote.  I don't need it hanging out on someone I think is town
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 10:32:36 am
Also, mason claims.  Totally see that happening in a game this size, sounds believable to me right now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 10:34:26 am
Unvigv0te

I'm not sure who I  prefer now. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 10:37:06 am
unvote

But I'm keeping vigv0te: Mail-Mi
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 10:40:09 am
We have an hour and a half, we should probably discuss who to vig vote.

I think I've listed all my thoughts, what do others think and why?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 10:51:27 am
Also, for the record, I think I'd be tempted to shoot one of the players I can never figure out, or that would be dangerous as scum, or that we wouldn't miss as town.

I think this this is what I would do.

Basically, choosing between an experienced vet who is a 50/50 shot in your mind at being scum, or a lurker.  I would shoot from the first category, which is why I am vigv0ting WW. 

He certainly can be very good scum, and his posts today have been useful, but not entirely convincing as town to me. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 11:07:19 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 11:08:41 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

also, scum, make sure you don't kill him.  kthxbye
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 11:11:52 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 11:13:12 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 11:18:43 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 11:24:03 am
My PoE list is:

e
Hydrad
Ichi
Silver
Ghacob
Awaclus
Mail-Mi

Secondary (i.e., crossed off but not really a strong read) would be:

Chairs
Ash
Lekkit

Definitely no-kill is:

Hockey
Wither
DeDe

Thoughts on the list:

Silver: I'm inclined to think that the sole defending of Hockey is suspicious a la white knighting.  He seemed somewhat genuine, though.  Probably towards the bottom of preference.
Ichi: Pretty null here.  He goes after DeDe after I cast initial suspicion on DeDe, then goes to Hockey when that picks up some steam, so some suspicion there.
Hydrad: I can't remember any content from him.
e: I don't have a read here.  Lower on preference I think.
Ghacob: I'm not sure what to think about him.  His treatment of Mail-Mi I thought was a little odd.. he was voting Mail-Mi, Ash pushed hard, and then Ghacob unvoted? 
Awaclus: I don't think there's much content there.
Mail-Mi: Jumped on the hockey wagon, but he was right that hockey was scummy.  If he was scum looking for a reason, he had a perfectly good townie one.  I'm not sure what else he's done except argue against shooting.  Being the only person to do so, that's a little bit of town points (logic being scum doesn't like to stand alone---lots of attention).

I guess my preference would be the unknowns first, something like.

Awaclus > Hydrad > Ichi > Ghacob > e > Mail-Mi > Silver

That ordering isn't too precise, though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 11:27:55 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 11:29:38 am
It kind of depends on what the power is, though.  If it's investigation related, it doesn't need to be used on you.  If it's some other thing, then it makes sense. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 11:34:01 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

I get that, but this seems to imply it's not investigation based, since he gets the results too.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 11:35:27 am
It kind of depends on what the power is, though.  If it's investigation related, it doesn't need to be used on you.  If it's some other thing, then it makes sense.

yeah.  In general I really don't like trying to direct actions D1.  Later in the game as we get more information we can look into more precise coordination.  For now, I think leaving options open is the best
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 11:37:38 am
We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 11:40:55 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.

Based on your flavor, my ability will have no effect on you and you would not be notified of its usage.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 11:42:12 am
(No, I'm not currently willing to reveal what is different between the two of you that makes this the case. I wish I could, but I think it might reveal my flavor and in so doing provide scum even more clues).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 11:42:49 am
We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 11:44:44 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.

Based on your flavor, my ability will have no effect on you and you would not be notified of its usage.

That's fine. I just don't trust mail-mi, is all.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 11:45:11 am
We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

I don't think he's a great shot. I don't think anybody has really been suspecting him :/
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 11:47:15 am
We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1

Well you were/are actually voting for him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 11:50:36 am
Out of time! Kill: Ghacob this is kind of hasty but I'll explain more in a bit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 11:53:21 am
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.

Well I guess I know you're not insincere.. what is the motivation for scum to be aggressive, short, and pushy?  Not liking a style of play shouldn't be confused with thinking someone is scum. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 11:53:51 am
I think Ghacob is an acceptable shot.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 11:54:47 am
THREAD LOCKED!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 12:12:18 pm
At the Hyperion, a big welcome awaits the Scooby Gang. "We're so glad you're here", says Wesley. "You don't know what's been going on - Wolfram&Hart have manage to extract changeling's powers into a device that lets you appear as someone else. They could have already infiltrated us without our knowledge. We-"

"What is a 'Wolf ram endart'?", interrupts Dawn.

"So basically anyone of us could actually be an ugly green monster, and we wouldn't know? Peachy", says Buffy.

"I... don't think I'm green", responds Dawn.

"Actually", Xanders utters in a scared voice, "you are, I think."

Before everyone's eyes, Dawn's hand starts transforming, turn green and brown and splitting into branches. The process soon takes over her whole body. Her feet are drawn together, forming a single trunk, and within moments, all that is left in Dawn's place is a small Birch tree, standing in the center of the Hyperion's lobby.


Ghacob has been killed. He was Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager!

THREAD UNLOCKED!
The Day action window is now closed.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 12:15:10 pm
Vote Count 1.4

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (1): chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky

Not Voting (7): EgorK, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 12:19:44 pm
So ADK, what was your reasoning here...? I feel like ghacob wasn't really much under discussion and before you didn't appear to want to kill him? It just seemed somewhat out of nowhere.

Also, could scum have had a PR to appear like town when they die?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 12:27:34 pm
I will be somewhat low activity today since I'm going on a day trip.

Thoughts. I believe the mason claim I think...though I don't really get that they purposefully tried to have hockey act more scummy?

Ghacob is an ok shot. I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

@DeDe Generally not. I think something like that falls more into bastard territory.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 12:29:21 pm
Oh. Yeah. I had written this up just before faust locked the thread. Guess Ghacob wasn't such a good shot  :(
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 12:31:15 pm
For D1, Ghacob was a good guess. It's disappointing it didn't work out, though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 12:34:08 pm
Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.

Well I guess I know you're not insincere.. what is the motivation for scum to be aggressive, short, and pushy?  Not liking a style of play shouldn't be confused with thinking someone is scum.
For some reason, hockey just doesn't like people he sees as aggressive I guess. I don't care for it though. It feels like he's conflating 2 different things like you said.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 12:35:39 pm
So who should be the lynch? I'm still very much of the opinion that mail-mo is a good lynch choice.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 12:40:00 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 12:43:22 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 12:43:35 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

That makes a lot of sense from the flavor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 12:48:15 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 12:48:57 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.

Try to verify with faust in your PM?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 12, 2015, 12:51:25 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.

Try to verify with faust in your PM?

By which I mean, there's no inherent downside to me being protected having to do with my role anymore. Who knows what wacky flavor shit is out there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 12, 2015, 12:53:14 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Ah. That makes sense why you needed to use it today.

And wow my plan was definitely a bad idea. :P
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 01:07:23 pm
mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

That's fair enough. I was confused at first because it didn't seem like anyone was pushing for ghacob, but looking back he was one of the first people at which you were looking... But the only suspicion you had of him then was his interaction with Hockey and it seeming faked... Other than that It doesn't seem like there as much of any talk about him besides one or two comments. Why did you choose him "randomly" when there where other people actually being discussed?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 01:30:25 pm
Regardless, besides me, it seems like 5 people were pushing the wagon for hockey. I'll try to give my thoughts here.

Mail-Mi: While I was pushing for mail0mi for a while, I think I may have been wrong. I thought it was very scummy to try to delay the vig shot because he assumed it would be protected. I just don't think that's probably and that's a big risk to take as a townie, but rereading his recent posts, I get the impression he's more town than I thought and I think my theory opposition has led me a bit astray here. I found the fact that he kept switching his vote without much content to be kind of scummy, because he's just pushing votes, but it could just be that he's sparse in posts right now and busy IRL (he mentioned and realized he's absent, it seems). I think after some time, he seems a bit more town to me. At the very least, I think people are right that he may be a lot more helpful later on. I'm feeling town here. I don't want to vote here.

Ichi: I have a strong town read on ichi. He has an aggressive play style, but I think he just wants to push people and put pressure on them to see what they'll do, and given that he'll try to figure out their alignment from that response (on rereading again, he actually says this directly). I feel it's a very towny thing to do, and to put a lot of heat on people is not always smart for scum to do so directly because it can easily call attention to them for trying to get a mislynch. He's been generally helpful and I think providing content, at least, and giving a lot of info through reactions. I do not want to vote here.

Ash: There's not a lot of content here, so I can't say much. I get a slight town vibe. I'd like to see more here before a lynch.

ADK: I feel very strongly he's town. The claim right away pushes me this way, and I don't feel a scum vig would do this (and I don't see any incentive for scum not to wait, too). The only possibility is it's a very long ploy to get us to believe him, but I think the risk there is very small and I don't believe it's true. His reads have been helpful and he's generally very helpful in games. Will not vote here.

Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 01:32:18 pm
Oh so, yeah, Vote: Awaclus.

I'd really like to hear more from EgorK and Hydrad. Egork has given me a slight scum feel.

I feel very town on WW, Silver, and e.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 01:37:04 pm
VOLT STYLE TIME (because all the cool kids are doing it)

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Feeling good about that trim to my D1 prospects. This isn't "these people are conf!town" is they're struck out mind you, and I'm also including deaders with flip alignment shown to keep track.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 01:48:26 pm
VOLT STYLE TIME (because all the cool kids are doing it)

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Feeling good about that trim to my D1 prospects. This isn't "these people are conf!town" is they're struck out mind you, and I'm also including deaders with flip alignment shown to keep track.

This is so exciting! I know Volt IRL!? He's INTERNET FAMOUS :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 01:56:04 pm
We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1

Well you were/are actually voting for him.

Two different things. I lynchvoted him to possible get some reactions. He provided a readslist that seemed town!Ghacob, but since he kept lurking after that I kept the vote on him. But sooner or later I probably would remove it, my reads wasn't enough to actually want him dead today.

Regardless. I didn't like that we had to kill two people D1, rather you than Ghacob for the vig but whatever. Done is done. You're practically null anyway. As IG points out some playstiles confuses me, aggression is not a tell of alignment really, and I try to remember that. No need to lynchvote you or suspect you more than anyone else.

Awaclus on the other hand. I sheep DeDe.

Vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 01:57:10 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 02:00:26 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:02:32 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Fair enough, I'm just still suspicious of him. I'll be more confident tomorrow when mail-mi shares what happened
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 02:13:12 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:13:46 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 02:15:57 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:18:00 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing.

Why do you not think it's likely besides the rest of his claim?

I guess players rarely just make up restrictions out of nowhere - but his claim could still be partially true. Granted, I didn't think through exactly how it could fit into a scum role.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:19:27 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

The first scenario makes no sense. I think I explained it in my earlier post, but scum would be much better served not claiming it and saving it for when it's REALLY useful, like shooting someone to get an advantage later on. I don't think a D1 claim for scum!ADK makes any sense unless he's a SK, but at this point, I don't see why he'd claim this early either.

PPE(2): yeah. I mean we can never rule it out completely, but yeah. Not today.

Silver, I just a don't think scum has incentive to claim besides a very long, which possible, is still less strategic compared to just saving it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:21:26 pm
His actual claim is actually kind of odd - how high was the chance for him to be targeted by both a NK and a protective role? also, where even is the flavor logic that his ability becomes evil if he is being protected from something evil? ADK, can you explain it a little bit more?

PPE 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:22:58 pm
The first scenario makes no sense. I think I explained it in my earlier post, but scum would be much better served not claiming it and saving it for when it's REALLY useful, like shooting someone to get an advantage later on. I don't think a D1 claim for scum!ADK makes any sense unless he's a SK, but at this point, I don't see why he'd claim this early either.

I don't think this is true. Using it day 1 seems like a safe town kill which also gives him town cred. Later, it'd probably be harder to believably sell it to us.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 02:23:09 pm
Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.

I have been reading and I have my reasons. I just don't share them, that's all.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 02:24:31 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing.

Why do you not think it's likely besides the rest of his claim?

I guess players rarely just make up restrictions out of nowhere - but his claim could still be partially true. Granted, I didn't think through exactly how it could fit into a scum role.

Partially meta, read.. ADK sounds town, and his thought process makes sense.  Also, Angel was a good guy.  Or, well, "good".  The whole thing makes a lot of flavor sense.  It also tells us that the bad guys are Vampire-aligned, which makes sense.  Though if he were Vampire-aligned, he would know that, but Angel shouldn't be.

ADK claiming 1-shot vig and not using it makes him likely to be targeted by a NK and protective role.  Him feeling the need to claim in the first place, I'm not so sure about.  But it makes more sense as town!ADK than scum!ADK.

PPEs
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:26:38 pm
ADK claiming 1-shot vig and not using it makes him likely to be targeted by a NK and protective role.

well, yeah, after he claimed it he had to use it for sure.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:27:44 pm
Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.

I have been reading and I have my reasons. I just don't share them, that's all.

That's literally helpful to no one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 02:27:57 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).

If I feel your town should I flavor claim? I don't see how it could help scum from my position. Unless someone brings up points of why I shouldn't I'm thinking of trusting chairs here and seeing if I can help him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 02:29:27 pm
also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 02:30:40 pm
also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.

+++++
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:31:13 pm
Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).

If I feel your town should I flavor claim? I don't see how it could help scum from my position. Unless someone brings up points of why I shouldn't I'm thinking of trusting chairs here and seeing if I can help him.

I think for now, don't, until we here from mail-no tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 12, 2015, 02:32:26 pm
At the hotel in Germany now. Short post for now.

I think hockeysemlan and DD are masons. The only way that claim makes sense for scum is if there is one scum faction and they both are part of it, which seems kind of risky. Especially day 1.

The Angel role does make sense flavor wise. Until you realize Angel don't really like to kill non-vampires. I'm not entirely sold on the whole idea that ADK is town just because he claimed Angel. Also, the birch tree kill totally doesn't seem like Angel. At all.

After claiming, he had a target on his back and would much more likely be targeted by a possible doctor and a nightkill. Before that, not so much. I think the better choice would be to save it for later, but ADK might have other reasons.

What was your reason to claim early day 1, ADK?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:34:31 pm
also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.

+++++

You all could be very right, but I think there wasn't really any clear wagon anyway, so that's not really an argument. There was a small wagon on mail-no (who ADK was against for a while) and random vote here and there. He couldn't really give up his shot either and had to use it D1 or he'd lose it to scum.

PPE(1): I think ADK meant that if he doesn't shoot today he loses it, not if he's protected at all. Although the flavor doesn't seem to match up well in the kill (trees wtf). But still, for now I trust him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 02:37:59 pm
Flavor-wise, Angel used to be Angelus, and I think the argument for restoring Angelus (evil version of Angel) would be in this thing that happened: "For experiencing a moment of pure happiness, however, the gypsy curse on Angel is revoked, unleashing his soulless alter-ego, who reunites with his old friends, vampires Spike (James Marsters) and Drusilla (Juliet Landau), and begins terrorizing Buffy and her friends."
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 02:44:18 pm
That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 12, 2015, 02:46:45 pm
yeah, not a fan of the Ghacob kill, but we would have had to be very fortunate to actually hit scum.  Not the end of the world.  Plus, insuring that ADK's kill was not given to scum was important.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 02:48:05 pm
That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 12, 2015, 02:52:51 pm
Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 03:12:22 pm
That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...

It doesn't matter that I'm not providing them because I'm not scum.

Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.

But I am participating and contributing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:14:11 pm
That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...

It doesn't matter that I'm not providing them because I'm not scum.

Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.

But I am participating and contributing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:15:36 pm
Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 03:22:36 pm
Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:24:15 pm
Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 03:34:38 pm
Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.

Policy votes on townies are certainly much less helpful than what I'm doing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:38:19 pm
Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.

Policy votes on townies are certainly much less helpful than what I'm doing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:38:59 pm
God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 03:47:12 pm
Awackus is experienced isn't he? I've seen this kind of behaviour one before on mafiascum and that time the person was town. Is this likely for Awaclus, you who played with him before? Or is he, God forbid, always like this? I can't recall it from the games I've read but I don't know if Awaclus was in any of them either so..

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 03:49:38 pm
God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 03:55:39 pm
God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

Basing reads of metas is usually a bad plan because people can say things like this and also change. The fact that you're aware of your meta makes me not trust you at all.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 12, 2015, 03:59:14 pm
I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

Had any of your posts contained questions for me? I do not understand what you are doing here.

3 pages to read
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 04:03:33 pm
God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

Yes, telling us how not inline with your scum meta you're acting and how aware you are of it is doing great wonders for your towniness.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 04:06:15 pm
Basing reads of metas is usually a bad plan because people can say things like this and also change.

I've been trying to make my scum play look more like this, too, but it's super difficult and I always end up being actually helpful.

Yes, telling us how not inline with your scum meta you're acting and how aware you are of it is doing great wonders for your towniness.

Every time I've done it, I've been town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 04:09:46 pm
So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 12, 2015, 04:13:22 pm
I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

Is there any sense to have SK/2 scum factions flavorwise? If yes, I'd sheep silver here
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 04:17:38 pm
So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 04:21:54 pm
So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 12, 2015, 04:23:08 pm
Vote: ADK actually
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 12, 2015, 04:27:24 pm
Vote Count 1.5

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (1): chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky
Awaclus (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (3): silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 04:32:17 pm
I don't think ADK is a good vote. I don't think he'd claim and give up his shot if he was scum just so everyone might believe he's town. He also did it right away which can flows with the narrative of his PR, because he'd realize he'd have to use it today and so he announced it. There was no clear wagon on anyone at the time, save a mini one on mail-mi, who ADK expressed that he did not want to shoot early on. Early on he had suspicion of Ghacob. And he needed to use it or scum would get it tomorrow. I won't be voting for ADK today, I don't think there's a good enough case and I don't think he was scummy at all, but in fact very Towny.

I would like to hear more from Mail-Mi, because although I think he's town now I'm still hesitant.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 04:36:02 pm
So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?

Because there's no reason to believe otherwise.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 04:40:21 pm
So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?

Because there's no reason to believe otherwise.

That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 12, 2015, 04:41:09 pm
Regarding meta arguments: I would argue that almost all of us "veteran" players are fairly self-aware of our metas, whether or not we manage to break out of them.

vote: ashersky.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 04:43:22 pm
Also, I highly doubt ADKs flavor claim is false. Angel is probably one of the biggest characters flavor wise, and if he actually wasn't angel, the real angel would have spoke up. And I don't think angel would be town, anyway, and his PR fits the gig.

PPE(1): this is why I think claiming your town because your meta is bad. People are usually aware of their meta after a while and it's easy to change.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 04:50:41 pm
That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.

I prove that it's very easy to realize metas. It is, however, not easy to change them, as my performance in my past scum games proves.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 04:53:34 pm
That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.

I prove that it's very easy to realize metas. It is, however, not easy to change them, as my performance in my past scum games proves.

Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 04:57:59 pm
Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 05:12:21 pm
Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.

Well maybe take it as a lesson and realize you're the problem, not other people, because maybe you play and provide no help to town and hurt them.

Also, meta arguments are still bad, because people can change their meta and we can never fully trust what people say.

Oh also, if you don't know what they are... Maybe go back and reread posts, process information, like other people, so that town has a better chance of winning.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 12, 2015, 05:16:10 pm
Either way, I'm done replying to you because your responses don't help town and are just hindering actual discussion. I have a feeling you're scum,  im keeping my vote there.

Anyway, yes I think ADK is town. If he is angel, then I think flavor wise it makes sense and he's town. If he's not, I highly doubt there's not an angel and the actual angel would have fessed up
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 05:19:38 pm
Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.

Start lynching scum and we'll start thinking you're town!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 05:20:23 pm
Oh also, if you don't know what they are... Maybe go back and reread posts, process information, like other people, so that town has a better chance of winning.

That's what I've been doing all the time and you had a town read on me before you suddenly brought up my short posting style as your only argument against me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 12, 2015, 05:20:36 pm
Sadly, I think Awaclus is town, but you better have better reads for your next unexplained vote..

Not a great start to suspect a later IC if you're gonna play the mute finnish stereotype, man. Straighten up your play and maybe we will have som use for you. Right now your style is very anti-town. Not sure we can afford it.

Unvote

Next on my scumlist should be Ashersky. He voted me during the time everyone did, with not a very good explaination as far as I could see and after that I haven't seen much of him at all. Might just as well be a legit lynch today.

Vote: Ashersky

PPE:2


Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 12, 2015, 07:04:29 pm
I don't think ADK is a good vote. I don't think he'd claim and give up his shot if he was scum just so everyone might believe he's town. He also did it right away which can flows with the narrative of his PR, because he'd realize he'd have to use it today and so he announced it. There was no clear wagon on anyone at the time, save a mini one on mail-mi, who ADK expressed that he did not want to shoot early on. Early on he had suspicion of Ghacob. And he needed to use it or scum would get it tomorrow. I won't be voting for ADK today, I don't think there's a good enough case and I don't think he was scummy at all, but in fact very Towny.

I would like to hear more from Mail-Mi, because although I think he's town now I'm still hesitant.

Hi I'm here for a bit sorry I'm busy staining and finishing my family's playhouse.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 07:13:38 pm
I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

Why? I bring up my meta every time I'm town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 07:13:54 pm
phone posting. still won't be back to a computer for a few more hours.

It seems like a lot of the people suspecting Awaclus are. people that haven't played with him much or at all. I don't pretend to be good at reading him, but he seems pretty much like his regular self here.

Also, why is everyone ignoring how scummy Egork is? He never responded to my posts and is lurking big time.

ppe:1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 12, 2015, 07:17:00 pm
phone posting. still won't be back to a computer for a few more hours.

It seems like a lot of the people suspecting Awaclus are. people that haven't played with him much or at all. I don't pretend to be good at reading him, but he seems pretty much like his regular self here.

Also, why is everyone ignoring how scummy Egork is? He never responded to my posts and is lurking big time.

ppe:1

Well, take your paragraph above and replace "Awaclus" with "Egork" and then tell us what you think.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 07:17:50 pm
I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

Had any of your posts contained questions for me? I do not understand what you are doing here.

3 pages to read
missed this. I'm still on mobile.

I actually can't recall if they were direct questions. I did respond to your thin accusations against me and called out how you were using doublespeak. Using exactly opposite behaviors to justify your read on me.

ppe:1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 07:18:43 pm
I'm not very familiar with Egork's meta. Do you think he's acting normally for him?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 12, 2015, 07:21:11 pm
I'm against lurking in general and think that lurker metas are dangerous to tolerate. Awaclus has way more content than Egork though from what I remember. I'm on mobile though, so can't check to be sure.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 07:29:01 pm
I'm not very familiar with Egork's meta. Do you think he's acting normally for him?

egork usually lurks a decent amount from what I remember.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 12, 2015, 07:30:12 pm
I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

Why? I bring up my meta every time I'm town.

Ok but see I can't trust your town here if you are so super aware of your meta. Whats stopping you from being scum here and bringing up points that say town me does this?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 12, 2015, 07:30:28 pm
even though there are good reasons, I think pushing Awaclus right now is scummy.

Pushing ash is just odd. How is he scummy? explain.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 12, 2015, 07:50:59 pm
Yeah, from what I remember of EgorK, he lurks a ton. And I think the general consensus in those games that I played with him where he lurked a ton was that he always lurks a ton.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 12, 2015, 10:45:17 pm
Hey all, just fyi I will be super busy this weekend and not around much.

On the vig shot -- perfectly acceptable target.  I find it interesting no one is discussing the flip.  Klepto teenager sounds like a Yuma role...I assume he was a Thief.

I think he could steal items.  Take that as a mini-claim.

On the Masons, whether you believe it or not, we don't lynch claimed masons; we let scum kill them.  They help us POE quickly, because for each town player, they auto-reduce the lynch pool by 3.  That's huge.

If they're lying, we will catch them later.

On ADK being Angel...I don't think the role OR the kill flavor matches the flavor name.  So that's odd.  Still, unless it is a DayKill SK or some weird extra kill for scum...I don't see this claim making sense for scum.

So, adk is honest, or he's SK.  Seems unlikely at this point.  Not lynching him.

I still like a mail-I'm lynch.  Awa seems like an easy attitude lynch, which isn't useful.  Needs the lurkers to step up.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 13, 2015, 05:45:27 am
Vote Count 1.6

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): chairs, hockeysemlan
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky
Awaclus (3): Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (3): silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 13, 2015, 07:18:02 am
FYI, just over 3 days to deadline.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 13, 2015, 01:09:11 pm
I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 13, 2015, 01:49:58 pm
I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 13, 2015, 02:03:20 pm
FYI, just over 3 days to deadline.

Indeed. Mind switching your vote?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 13, 2015, 02:09:16 pm
I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

Well, I don't think you're doing much other than sheeping.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 13, 2015, 02:11:28 pm
I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

I'm overall just getting a scummy feeling from you, apart from theory. I can't really explain in detail. Your vote choices have been fishy to me, and I don't really believe your flavor claim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 13, 2015, 02:16:06 pm
I don't really like Silverspawn here, particularly the ADK thing.  He seems to be coming to the defense of the "easy" wagons and pursuing unpopular ones.  It's not that it's particular scummy in and of itself, but I'm starting to think that it may be intentionally avoiding the scumminess of sheeping (a la Mail-Mi/Egor) and going far in the opposite direction. 

It's sort of like he's active but not doing anything that really makes a difference.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 13, 2015, 04:44:06 pm
I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

Well, I don't think you're doing much other than sheeping.

I haven't had time to do much else.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 13, 2015, 05:37:42 pm
Meh, let's go through player list or I'll forget everything

e - do not remember anything in particular
Hydrad - can't put anything here as well
Chairs - now, this is interesting. Role that shares result with target and has targetting restrictions. More active then usual. Pass for d1
IG - I don't like this all out attacks. They can be town or scum hunting for mislynch. Still not a D1 lynch
WW - active, but I do not remember anything interesting aside from last post about ss. Although it is late and I may just forgot something. Warrants reread
Silver - talks sense most of the time. Pass for D1

Will finish this tommorow,mto tired really
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 13, 2015, 09:45:28 pm
Ok, I just reread the thread and not a whole lot stood out to me as making one person especially scummy over anyone else.  A lot of interactions, a lot of claims, but nothing that I could really feel good about building an amazing case around.

So, right now, we are at this crazy point in the game where we have votes on 8 different people.  8 people.  That is a lot.  We need to consolidate and create some wagons before we let this day slip away without too much useful information.

That being said, PoE:

First, I don't want to lynch anyone who has claimed things (or myself):
2.71828.....
Hydrad
chairs
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
silverspawn
ashersky
hockeysemlan
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit
Delirious Deleuze
mail-mi

Except, you know, ADK's "full claim" is that now he is basically no longer a PR.
Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

I find that very suspect.  He really gets nothing else out of his PR except a 1-shot DayVig that could have turned into a scum kill?  Seriously?  I am putting him back on the list:

Hydrad
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
ashersky
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit

Still a big list.  Lekkit hasn't played in a while, and so far has been fairly normal for what I remember from him, lets cross him off. 

Now, who do we have left

Hydrad - His initial thoughts on flavor claiming I think aren't the best.  I mean, all he says is that he doesn't care (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498536#msg498536).  So his thoughts aren't bad in that I disagree with him, they are bad in that I can't disagree with him.  Non-committal, hedgy.  His thoughts on the dayvig are interesting.  He starts against it, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498755#msg498755) but then changes his mind and is for it (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498798#msg498798).  I usually think developing opinions and openly sharing your thoughts is a town characteristic, but I am not sold here.  His reasoning for being against it is that "scum can manipulate town" better D1.  Then he changes his mind because it will give us a "more meaningful D1."  That feels a lot like arguing for a D1 no-lynch because "we usually lynch town" but then realizing that the townie position is actually that we should lynch, even if we miss and hit town.  Thus the flip-flop.  The next strike against him is when he asks chairs if he should flavor claim if he feels like chairs is town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500090#msg500090).  It just feels very martyr-ish to me.  "Hey guys, I can take the bullet to help out chairs here.  No, really, its no problem, I think he is town."  I mean, that might be an exaggeration (ok, it is an exaggeration), but I don't get warm fuzzies there.

EgorK - Hasn't posted too much, but that is normal.  He doesn't feel off to me, so I am fine just letting things develop with him.  He does need to finish those reads tomorrow like he said.  (edit: after going through IG and looking at IG's case on him, I am leaning on the scummy side of null)

Ichimaru Gin - I kind of like his stance on flavor claiming.  Or rather, I don't like it, but I don't think scum would endorse the stance he takes.  The whole "I know nothing about flavor, let's do it" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498383#msg498383) stance.  He (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499228#msg499228) then  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499251#msg499251)has  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499253#msg499253)a  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499412#msg499412)whole  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499415#msg499415)lot  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499425#msg499425)to  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499446#msg499446)say  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499471#msg499471)about  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499478#msg499478)Delirious  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499504#msg499504)Deleuze (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499537#msg499537).  He even gives chairs a D1 pass for voting DD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499494#msg499494). But in the end he comes around and loses his scumread on DD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499557#msg499557).  Ichi has fights with people, happens.  I didn't see anything too scummy about it from his angle.  He then switches  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499687#msg499687)up  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499690#msg499690)and goes  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499691#msg499691)after  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500191#msg500191)EgorK a bit, which is where he is right now.  Not lynching IG today.  He fights, has arguments, and its all good.  What he is doing though is finding people who he thinks are scum and pursues them until they are lynched or he is (or he changes his mind).  I think it is extremely townie that he switched off DD before DD claimed masons with hockey.  And now he is on EgorK.  I think this is town!IG scumhunting.  Maybe not my style of scumhunting, but I don't think he is scummy for it.

Witherweaver - He has commented on almost everything.  But that is really all I get from him.  Comments.  Doubts scum!ADK would make his claim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498962#msg498962).  Claiming is more townie than scummy (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499016#msg499016).  Encourages people to post more despite votes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499112#msg499112) (I totally agree with him here, btw).  Ash "sounds like town. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499355#msg499355)"  Doesn't think chairs is scummy for asking what people (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499426#msg499426) think about claiming.  Generic anti-lurker post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499430#msg499430) (with a prod).  "Scummy and null.  sweet." (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499927#msg499927)  Makes a friendly post to encourage chairs not to share any additional info (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500072#msg500072) about his role.  So yeah.  A whole lot of comments.  But really, I think this is just D1 WW staying active and participating.  Nothing scummy about what he posted.  But nothing especially townie.  I did think his developing read on DD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499352#msg499352) was a townie post.  And his reads post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499999#msg499999) is a useful one.  I mean, I wouldn't be sad if he got lynched, but don't think I will endorse it right now.

ashersky - He is more in favor (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498697#msg498697) of, and talks (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741) more about, the vig shot (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498757#msg498757) than anyone  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499126#msg499126)else (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499205#msg499205).  I mean, that is his biggest (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499206#msg499206) push early, to make sure the shot happens.  He has also been consistently (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741) against mail-mi.  I loved his little "dark trench coat and a bowler hat" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499289#msg499289) post.  And I mean, he actually builds a decent D1 case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499340#msg499340) around him.  He also has a reads post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499853#msg499853), and another post with more random info (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500222#msg500222).  Nothing too special.  I don't get any scum vibes from Ashersky's play at this point.

A Drowned Kernel - Ok.  So we all know about ADK.  The day-vig.  I know I said I was crossing off people who claimed, but I just really, really don't like his "fullclaim." (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500036#msg500036)  I mean, is that it?  He is very careful to keep us happy by making a show of including us  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498754#msg498754)in the process and everything, then goes out and shoots the person he wanted to.  His comments on flavor claiming (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498926#msg498926) feel a bit off to me as well.  Especially the "presumably scum has fakeclaims" part feels forced.  He defends DD a bit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499236#msg499236), which is fine.  I forget who made the point, but his flavor claim as Angel does seem hard to fake, but I don't know enough bout flavor to just write someone off because of a flavor name.  Basically, all the good feelings I used to have about ADK are gone, replaced by icky, gooey feelings that everything is not as he says it is. 

Awaclus - The currently most popular wagon.  He is anti-claiming (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498627#msg498627) and was pro-vigging (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498793#msg498793).  Not very active early.  Then he got himself in trouble with this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500084#msg500084).  The Post He Refused To Share His Thoughts.  He follows it up with another post  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500101#msg500101)explaining why he doesn't feel the need to share his thoughts.  Then an extremely meta-aware post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500142#msg500142).  I mean, this post almost sounds like he is making fun of his meta (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500190#msg500190).  He also briefly mentions (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500201#msg500201) how much EgorK lurks.  I don't know.  I don't buy scum!awaclus doing this.  He feels genuine to me.  I mean, would I lynch him if we needed to?  Yes.  Do I think we need to right now? no.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 13, 2015, 09:47:54 pm
So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 13, 2015, 09:55:40 pm
I am super busy this weekend and probably won't be able to get to this tomorrow night. I'll try to do a super re-read then. Sorry!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 13, 2015, 10:09:58 pm
wow nice work e!

also I don't even remember that I'm on mail-mi. must have been forever ago.

I'll go Vote: Egork

I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT but at the same time that almost makes him an easier target is my thinking.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 13, 2015, 10:14:24 pm
that is one excellent reread. and it makes all sense! let's be town buddies for this game... or at least for today.

totally agree with Awaclus, also with IG

WW too, though I'd give him a little bit more town cred

EgorK... well, there's nothing there. we could totally lynch him.

Hydrad is weird so no idea.

ADK is... dunno, I suggested to put him back in the lynch pool, but now that it's happening I'm scared. what if he's town? well, everyone can be town. Okay, this doesn't make a lot of sense... ugh, never mind.

why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499379#msg499379)

Basically all he did was argue against the shot and sheep a bunch of cases. that's kind of scummy for the lack of towniness.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 13, 2015, 10:16:07 pm
I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT

I didn't think about that, and it's actually a good point.

Okay, so I'm looking at Egork, ADK and mail-mi for now

vote: Egork to start things off
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 13, 2015, 10:39:12 pm
why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499379#msg499379)

yeah.  I mean, I crossed you off the list.  And all you have said is you have a voting restriction.  I know, it is an arbitrary means to cross people off for PoE D1, but we do have a lot of people.  Plus, mail-mi's claim was a fairly soft investigative claim, and I think we can keep him around a bit more in case that is what it is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 13, 2015, 11:08:23 pm
Cool. Nice reread from e--he's out of my lynch pool today for sure. And looks like the EgorK wagon is picking up!
That's good. What's not so good is people aren't really saying why they want to lynch him... For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

I will probably do a big reads post at some point, but I'm pretty exhausted right now. There's a lot of stuff going on with getting ready for summer semester.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 14, 2015, 01:10:36 am
Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

When do ss claim a voting restriction?

Don't like an ADK lynch today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 14, 2015, 01:34:58 am
Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

chairs  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498312#msg498312)- has a role that cares about flavor names
silverspawn  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498284#msg498284)- has a restricted amount of times he can vote in a day
hockeysemlan  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499972#msg499972)- mason with DD
A Drowned Kernel (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500036#msg500036) - 1-shot DayVig that can't do anything anymore
Delirious Deleuze (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499958#msg499958) - mason with hockey
mail-mi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499379#msg499379) - messenger/oracle/something that is "unwise to claim this early"
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 14, 2015, 01:44:09 pm
So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.

I don't really buy any proposed scum narrative for ADK.  First, when does scum ever get a Dayvig shot?  And even so, why come out first thing Day 1 and claim?  I guess for town cred, but it seems an unlikely enough scenario that he shouldn't be high in the list.

Though, you have a point about that being a little minor to be all there is for his role.  He could also be town not disclosing everything.  Hydrad analysis looks sound, and I feel more or less the same about Egor; I can't tell with him.

IG I would put a little more null to possibly scummy.  I remember thinking that him backing away from DD could be a result of Ichi thinking he was looking worse from the argument, so he didn't want it to devolve into a DD vs. Ichi thing.  Though, if Egor flips scum we can pretty much guarantee Ichi isn't a partner based on their interactions. 

I like the analysis otherwise; seems townie. 

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 14, 2015, 05:43:27 pm
For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

For the record, I still have not got any questions from you
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 14, 2015, 05:50:21 pm
Hockey and DD - I do not see any scum narrative until they live through at least day 3
Ash - does not feel like usual town ash, but I had not played for a while so his meta may have been changed
ADK - I stand by my earlier reads
Awaclus - I hate what he is doing, but as annoying as he is I don't want to lynch him D1
Lekkit - do no remember anything in particular, in for reread
Mail-mi - pushed for theoretically unsound decision and than kinda disappeared. Scummy still
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 14, 2015, 05:54:49 pm
So who should we lynch today?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 14, 2015, 07:31:19 pm
I'm still in favor of a mail-mi lynch. My only qualm is that he could possibly give us assurance that chairs is town/can be confirmed town tomorrow after being target by chairs to show he really is Cordie. If he's scum, then he'd probably be lying about being Cordie and he wouldn't know what chairs' targeting did and thus would be forced to claim and then chairs could confirm/deny.

This works under the presumption that they're not on a team together, but I really don't think this is the case and have a town read on chairs.

Yet, this plan could easily fall through and I still feel mail-mi is scum, and so I would be in favor of his lynch today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 14, 2015, 07:32:07 pm
Just thought I'd share that idea of possible info we could garner from chairs' PR role.

On he road, will be in the woods tomorrow-thursday
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 14, 2015, 07:34:11 pm
Oh, I did realize that Cordelia makes sense.  The setup says something about dead players coming back to life, and my guess is that it's through some channeller/medium as a ghost or something.  (Maybe they'd be essentially revived as a treestump.)  I think Cordelia would be an appropriate flavor character for that.. she was the one that communicated with spirits and such, right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 14, 2015, 07:34:37 pm
Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 14, 2015, 07:45:09 pm
Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.

It appears to have a little something to do with it, but regardless, I mail-no lied about his flavor name for any reason (e.x. He's spike or the master or something) then the targeting would fail and he wouldn't know what the power did and we'd also know, through a chairs confirmation, that he was lying about his flavor name, which I think only scum would do.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 14, 2015, 08:01:46 pm
We aren't lynching mail-mi today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 14, 2015, 08:06:13 pm
We aren't lynching mail-mi today.

you said something like that earlier today. is that a claim?

you two are both in my rather small lynch pool, so you're going to have to justify that statement somehow
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 14, 2015, 08:08:46 pm
I'm not going to claim for mail-mi but he sent me a message that makes me want to not lynch him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 14, 2015, 08:30:02 pm
I'm not going to claim for mail-mi but he sent me a message that makes me want to not lynch him.

This doesn't make me trust either of you. How was he able to message you? Why did he message you? What could he possibly have said to make you not want to lynch him? You're asking us to take a lot on faith here, in a game where faith isn't what we want to go on...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 14, 2015, 08:34:51 pm
ohh more claims! I love RMM you never know whats going to happen!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 14, 2015, 08:39:35 pm
Presumably his role lets him send messages. And I won't be voting for him today based on the message he sent me. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 14, 2015, 09:04:55 pm
I can confirm that I sent ADK a message as my Day action.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 14, 2015, 09:52:52 pm
I can confirm that I sent ADK a message as my Day action.

I'm trying to see Cordelia as a Mailman...doesn't work for me.

The Scum Mailman meme is a longstanding one at f.ds, too.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 14, 2015, 09:54:55 pm
Oh yeah, mail-mi flavor claimed. I should make sure what he told me jives with the flavor. What's Cordelia like in the show?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 14, 2015, 09:56:10 pm
If we relate the idea of sending PMs to the Buffyverse, maybe telepathy is the most sensible flavor consideration?

That reduces the flavor pool to Willow, Jasmine, Betta George, Amy Madison, Splenden Beasts, and Noelle, as well as just the general demon/vampire/witch category.

(Note: Buffy was telepathic for a bit.)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 14, 2015, 09:58:50 pm
Oh yeah, mail-mi flavor claimed. I should make sure what he told me jives with the flavor. What's Cordelia like in the show?

Depends.

In Buffy, I'd probably describe her as super ditzy, generally annoying, and not exactly Buffy's friend (although she joins up with her later).  Xander was in love with her for ages.  She's the head cheerleader type.

In Angel, she becomes more serious, Angel's muse.  She ends up being able to see visions of people in need, then goes bad, but is actually possessed.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 15, 2015, 12:15:50 am
Assuming we aren't lynching mail-mi, what are the other options people like?

I still think ADK is a good target.  EgorK I would do, but not my favorite.  I mean, we do get some info about IG from an EgorK lynch, so that is nice.  I am also down to lynch Hydrad. 

Also, where is everyone?  We have only got like a day and a half.

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 15, 2015, 12:21:13 am
If we relate the idea of sending PMs to the Buffyverse, maybe telepathy is the most sensible flavor consideration?

That reduces the flavor pool to Willow, Jasmine, Betta George, Amy Madison, Splenden Beasts, and Noelle, as well as just the general demon/vampire/witch category.

(Note: Buffy was telepathic for a bit.)

This is wrong. My type of messaging is flavorly referred to as sending emails. I have no idea how that jives with Cordelia's flavor, but that's how it is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 01:26:31 am
I'm not sure I'd really think of anyone in the Buffyverse as emailer senders.

Willow was the computer whiz, I guess.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 15, 2015, 01:51:59 am
Hmm. So we have about 2 days left to the deadline. Yeah, I didn't explicitly ask EgorK any direct questions I guess--but I did point out his doublespeak multiple times which he has basically ignored. I'm happy where my vote is. WW is using similar logic as EgorK it seems. My reads can change ok--I hadn't played with DeDe in a super long time, and he's seemed pretty townie as of late. It's interesting considering WW found DeDe scummy but then he says "the argument between ichi and DeDe wasn't going in Ichi's favor, so that's why Ichi backed off". I didn't see that at all.

Sheesh, it's scummy for me to not tunnel people now?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 15, 2015, 02:01:33 am
Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 02:09:59 am
Here's the latest vote count.


silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): chairs, hockeysemlan
mail-mi (1): DD
EgorK (3): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn
hockeysemlan (1): ashersky
Awaclus (2): Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.7

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 02:13:22 am
vote: witherweaver

Let's see what that does.

Not lynching: 2.7, IG, ADK, Lekkit, DD, chairs, hockey (although he's scummy)
Would lynch :mail-mi, WW, EgorK, Hydrad, SS, Awaclus



Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 15, 2015, 02:47:15 am
Ashersky: How am I scummy? DeDe and I go along here so if I am scummy he should be it too, and I don't know.. is that likely? Isn't he one of the most pro-Town player this far.

I've been lurky I know, if that's what bothers you. I try to change that as soon as I can, but with this many playes I don't like to contribute with mere guesses based on poorly reading.. Hope I can do a proper reread tonight.

But ah well, you changed your vote so..

vote: Mail-Mi

Something is fishy here..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 02:59:10 am
@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 15, 2015, 05:57:57 am
Vote Count 1.7

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): chairs
mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (3): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn
Awaclus (2): Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): ashersky

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 30 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 15, 2015, 06:59:14 am
I think I like a Witherweaver lynch the most. Out of the popular options right now, EgorK is the least bad.

Vote: WW
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 15, 2015, 07:10:00 am
I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 15, 2015, 08:07:05 am
Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...

It's from memory; I'll go back and look at the posts.  I remember it as an argument between you and DD escalating some and then you moving away to something else.

Were you never voting DD?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 15, 2015, 08:07:48 am
I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW

It would do <town players -1>
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 15, 2015, 08:17:48 am
Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 15, 2015, 08:34:56 am
Vote: Hydrad

Curious. Thats not really how I expected you to react.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 15, 2015, 01:00:30 pm
I have no time whatsoever to do anything but sheep right now, and so I'm going to vote: EgorK

I don't know if I'll have more time tomorrow or later today, but if I do I'll do some reading.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 15, 2015, 01:04:47 pm
Vote Count 1.8

ashersky (1): chairs
mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn, mail-mi
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Awaclus
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 23 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 15, 2015, 01:54:01 pm
I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW
I don't like the sound of this at all. This is a terrible reason to lynch someone?
Is this even scummy for Hydrad though? I think his sig is relevant here in more ways than one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 15, 2015, 01:54:58 pm
Weird extra question mark. I meant it as a statement that "this is a terrible reason to lynch someone".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 15, 2015, 02:56:33 pm
@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 15, 2015, 06:49:11 pm
I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 07:22:22 pm
I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 07:23:10 pm
I will point out that in a large game, a no lynch is worse than normal.

We did have a death today, so that helps counter it, but I think a lynch provides is more info than not.  My point is, let's not let this deadline out.

I feel like EgorK is the "welp, no one else has enough votes" lynch of the day.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 15, 2015, 07:27:56 pm
I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 15, 2015, 07:36:14 pm
I will point out that in a large game, a no lynch is worse than normal.

We did have a death today, so that helps counter it, but I think a lynch provides is more info than not.  My point is, let's not let this deadline out.

I feel like EgorK is the "welp, no one else has enough votes" lynch of the day.
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree with you. I think he's scummy, but people have mostly been voting him with little/no explanation. I might like WW better.
I will only be around for maybe another 4-5 hours, and I will not be there for the deadline.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 08:44:51 pm
I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.

Unless he lives in New Zealand, or one of the very few inhabited pacific islands east of me, your statement is absoutely incorrect.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 08:45:48 pm
(Here's a hint: he doesn't live in New Zealand or the outlying pacific islands.  I'm fairly certain he lives in Scandinavia somewhere.  Sweden?)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 15, 2015, 09:52:39 pm
I'll vote for EgorK or Awaclus. Awaclus is my preferred lynch, because of the reason I stated before. I might vote for WW, but I'd have to reread him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 15, 2015, 09:54:35 pm
I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.

Unless he lives in New Zealand, or one of the very few inhabited pacific islands east of me, your statement is absoutely incorrect.

It is absolutely correct because his "tomorrow" is your "today".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 15, 2015, 10:32:28 pm
So....we just lynching EgorK then?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 15, 2015, 10:33:28 pm
I mean, I will be around for a while, I don't have many more thoughts than what I posted earlier
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 15, 2015, 10:36:24 pm
@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?

I targetted mail-mi.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 15, 2015, 10:37:20 pm
vote: egork. I'd rather see a lynch than no lynch, and I don't think I'll be on much tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 15, 2015, 11:02:02 pm
This just feels like a very lazy lynch.  I mean, zero resistance? 

I will vote for EgorK before I go to bed in a couple hours if nothing else is happening, but I want to hear why people are voting WW.  All the votes on him were like "meh, I can vote WW"

Or at least thats what they felt like to me
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 11:10:06 pm
This just feels like a very lazy lynch.  I mean, zero resistance? 

I will vote for EgorK before I go to bed in a couple hours if nothing else is happening, but I want to hear why people are voting WW.  All the votes on him were like "meh, I can vote WW"

Or at least thats what they felt like to me

1)  WW is oddly absent from the game.  Compare this to any other game ever.
2)  The reactions to this late wagon are interesting and useful tomorrow.
3)  It takes an actual statement of intent, "meh" or not, to vote for WW at this point, whereas the EgorK votes, s the default "better than no lynch" lynch, are basically "free" for anyone to cast with a built-in excuse tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 15, 2015, 11:24:45 pm
Uh so this game was a thing. It is strange how motivation works, but I'll be asleep soon and won't be around for the deadline. Need to place my vote now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 15, 2015, 11:27:00 pm
eh, I don't like WW

I think Egork is fine. Probably going to be Egork. anyone want to convince me otherwise?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 15, 2015, 11:30:36 pm
oh, actually, it's more than 12 hours, so I will be around for the deadline.

I, uh, don't want to vote now though - I think my only vote today is still on EgorK. since mail-mi isn't happening and I don't agree with WW, that's the best choice next to ADK.

will be back in time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 15, 2015, 11:51:18 pm
I could do silverspawn if needed.

That whole "can't vote" thing seems like a cover for something scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 12:27:08 am
Realized I will be around before deadline, so I am not changing my vote yet.  I still really like an ADK lynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 01:15:20 am
I may not be able to post again before deadline, and I don't know if any other lynch than EgorK is going to get through, so I'm going to leave my vote there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 16, 2015, 02:51:13 am
@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?

I targetted mail-mi.

Ah, well.

DeDe have reasons to believe it was scummy of you two to not tell about that interaction, but I haven't really followed why, did mail-mi even know that you targeted him? It's too bad DeDe is absence and I haven't really the time to explain his thoughts so they can become understandable. I guess we can go for mail-mi D2 if anything. I might also have missed something so eh..

Today I feel a vote for him gonna be in vain.

Vote: EgorK

if that's the lynch for today I have no reason to argue against it..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 16, 2015, 04:05:31 am
Vote Count 1.9

mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Awaclus
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in ~8 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 16, 2015, 04:07:09 am
Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 16, 2015, 04:30:25 am
Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 05:10:31 am
Reread time. WW:

54: votes for silver because he has no vote restriction (RVS)
77: reaction for ADK vig claim - hai Yuma
84: revotes for silver for being all cautious
111: asks mail-mi why save vig vote for d2
116: has doubts about scum!ADK making vig claim
121: says that chairs suggested flavor claiming and then said nothing
124: thinks that mafia almost never suggest claims hence suggesting is townie
128: vigvoted DD for trying hard to have read on everyone
132: rebukes silver's suggestion that he voted for DD because DD listed him as scummy
134: based on that suggests that he is IC now
136: reminds ash of DDs 2-3 town games before his SK game
140: thinks that his vote on DD may discourage posting content, but says he voted because he thought DD scummy
142-143: more ramblings about not discouraging playstyle because of voting

Ok, I'll skip posts with no meaningful content from here on

175: analyzed DD reads post to prove it had little actual content
176: thinks ash post towny
177: does not agree with DD that claims/hints were sketchy
189: thinks chairs more likely town then scum based on suggesting flavor claim
192: prods chairs
209: says DD is wrong, but not inherently scummy because of this
214, 230, 234, 239, 242: comments, clarifications, not so important questions
245: vigvotes hockey for budding guy that suspects him
263: asks me why I think mail-mi is scummy
more comments and clarifications (and jokes)
319: believes DD masons claim
328: unvigvotes
337: poe list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499999#msg499999 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499999#msg499999) . Just noticed that he skipped me for some reason
comments
379, 385: defends ADK
back and forth with Awaclus about how he is not helpful
435: thinks that for IG Awaclus and me should be about the same
449: thinks mail-mi is onlly sheeping
451: thinks silver making himself seems active without providing content
464: thinks e analysis is good and townie
some flavor comments and trying to remember IG vs DD thing
498: votes Hydrad

Much more townie content than I assumed, will not vote here unless I need to save myself
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 05:15:53 am
Probably will do Hydrad next
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Hydrad on June 16, 2015, 07:48:48 am
So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 08:06:24 am
Hydrad:

69: RVS vote on mail-mi
71: thinks he do not care much of flavor claiming but says he do not know much about flavor
97-98, 100: Dayvig is ok, but may be more useful later
108-109: In favor of dayvig because it is extra lynch
147: Gives DD day 1 pass for content
155: Vigvotes Awaclus
158: Do not want to vig mail-mi or DD
288: PoE list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860)
291: Thinks that e hadn't done much yet to warrant crossing off list
296: Thinks my post about mail-mi is towny
388: Thinks that chairs is town, asks whether he should flavor claim
389: thinks that shooting Ghacob do not provide much info
comments
457: votes for me, do not want to lynch ADK right now
495: says he ok hoping to WW
499: says WW vote on him is curious
529: switches to WW after mod mentions that there no need to have a absolute majority to lynch in this game

Would not mind switching here. I still think ADK is SK with big probability, but Hydrad is good candidate to be scum. On the other hand he always feel scummy
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 08:06:53 am
So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.

If not for shitty internet I'd posted it earlier, sorry
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 08:49:22 am
You think ADK is SK with day kill?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:14:49 am
You think ADK is SK with day kill?

yeah, that doesn't make too much sense, considering he announced his shot in the thread.

unless he can actually shoot in his QT and the post in the thread was just a farce - that would be pretty smart. Also seems kind of convoluted though
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:15:13 am
(with 'announced' I mean 'performed')
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 09:33:21 am
Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...

So, responding:

So, first, you follow my vote on DD, citing the same kind of thought process I had.  That's alright.  DD responds to criticisms and eventually it gets to:

generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced."
Why is everyone ignoring this? This is probably the #1 thing that makes me think DeDe is scum right now. It's such a clear attempt to misinterpret what I was actually saying.

That, and now load of people are defending him and attacking me for having a scumread on him. Yeah, I'm sticking to my guns--I don't care how unpopular it is. I'm trusting my gut on this one. I've gotten burned too many times going along with others.

The only thing that bothered me about that is, you're not wrong about DeDe being incorrect, but that doesn't really indicate scumminess.  But anyway, the thing here is that it's a little you vs. DeDe, but no one is taking your side.  Then you bring up DeDe's post about Chairs and a couple posts later say you would consider moving to Chairs:

Yep. Chairs only has one post. This.

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
I might actually prefer chairs...
Even with his lurking though, it seems like people never want to lynch him. He barely got any suspicion in M61 as scum.

PPE: WW In a vacuum, I might agree with you. Chairs literally hasn't posted anything since then though. He's not VLA is he?

Then there more on the ad hominem thing, then you put a real vote for DD, and then after a number of posts:

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

and you switch a decent time later:

I like vote: EgorK. Pushing bad wagons and has me down as a "safe" backup vote.

So, I left out some quotes here, but on reread it looks better than it was in my head.  The scenario/scum narrative I was considering was something like this: You try out a DD vote; it's a bit townier looking because it's not sheeping (well, he had one vote, but lots of people thought he was town), and in general pursing less likely lynches is townier.  You find yourself in an argument that doesn't really go your way because DD seems to just get more town cred (plus, the claim, but I think that actually happens later).  So you feel if it just continues people are going to start to get a scum read on you, so you decide to back off.  But you need an excuse to back off, so something has to be scummy to give you a reason, and Egor is a good target.  Basically, I had thought it might be: "this isn't working, gotta bail".

Actually you look more town now; the discussion with DD and eventual switch was a lot more spread out than I thought.  Plus, you vigvoted DD, then after some discussion started to consider other options (Chairs), then went back to suspecting him more, real voted him, and then switched.   The Chair suspicion doesn't really look that bad, since you did say at the beginning that you agreed with DD's point there, and didn't just bring it up because you needed to change focus.  The switch to Egor was more organic, too, since it came from direct discussion between you and Egor and not just from him being a good excuse to change your vote.

 
PPE: Silvers
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 09:33:57 am
You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:35:43 am
You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1

a SK who has a vig shot?  ???
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 09:37:31 am
You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1

a SK who has a vig shot?  ???

Why not exactly?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 16, 2015, 09:38:47 am
Almost out of time?

At least we have a lynch either way.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: ashersky on June 16, 2015, 09:40:17 am
Egor at 4, WW at 3.

I have to assume egor will switch to try to save himself...

Interested to see what people do now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:44:54 am
I don't want WW lynched, but my vote is already on EgorK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 09:47:03 am
I don't want WW lynched, but my vote is already on EgorK.

Let's do ADK then
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 09:48:35 am
Well I would change to save myself, obviously.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 16, 2015, 09:57:40 am
I'm here but not really caught up, I've completely lost track of this game. What are the cases on EgorK and WW?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:57:48 am
right now, it looks like Egork will get lynched if WW switches. I'm fine with that, probably slightly more fine than with ADK.

also this

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

'hey, now I can stop bussing'
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 09:58:40 am
I'm here but not really caught up, I've completely lost track of this game. What are the cases on EgorK and WW?

EgorK is lurking

WW I don't even know. I guess players think he posted a lot and too secure and was blending in
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 16, 2015, 10:00:55 am
Vote Count 1.10

mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (3): ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 2 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 16, 2015, 10:01:57 am
Any second opinions?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 10:11:04 am
No one thinks Hydrad is scummy?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 16, 2015, 10:18:09 am
I could go for Hydrad. vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:18:25 am
I do.  vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 10:35:12 am
why Hydrad? I'm of course bad at reading him, but from skimming through his posts, I don't really see what makes him so scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: EgorK on June 16, 2015, 10:36:33 am
Hydrad is ok. Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 10:43:59 am
why Hydrad? I'm of course bad at reading him, but from skimming through his posts, I don't really see what makes him so scummy.

Well, mostly an alternative to Egor and ADK, and me of course.  Plus that weird hedgey post about trying out lynching me (yeah, yeah, his sig).  I don't think he has a whole lot of content, and he's been mostly wagon jumping.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 10:44:42 am
DD and hokey are still on Mail-Mi.. have we decided to not do Mail-Mi because of the Chairs thing?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:45:35 am
DD and hokey are still on Mail-Mi.. have we decided to not do Mail-Mi because of the Chairs thing?

I think so.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 10:45:59 am
I prefer Egork to hydrad though. and the fact that we're having so much resistance now just makes me want to lynch Egork more.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:47:01 am
Hydrad - His initial thoughts on flavor claiming I think aren't the best.  I mean, all he says is that he doesn't care (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498536#msg498536).  So his thoughts aren't bad in that I disagree with him, they are bad in that I can't disagree with him.  Non-committal, hedgy.  His thoughts on the dayvig are interesting.  He starts against it, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498755#msg498755) but then changes his mind and is for it (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg498798#msg498798).  I usually think developing opinions and openly sharing your thoughts is a town characteristic, but I am not sold here.  His reasoning for being against it is that "scum can manipulate town" better D1.  Then he changes his mind because it will give us a "more meaningful D1."  That feels a lot like arguing for a D1 no-lynch because "we usually lynch town" but then realizing that the townie position is actually that we should lynch, even if we miss and hit town.  Thus the flip-flop.  The next strike against him is when he asks chairs if he should flavor claim if he feels like chairs is town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg500090#msg500090).  It just feels very martyr-ish to me.  "Hey guys, I can take the bullet to help out chairs here.  No, really, its no problem, I think he is town."  I mean, that might be an exaggeration (ok, it is an exaggeration), but I don't get warm fuzzies there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:50:44 am
They are at 4/4 right now I believe

EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Hydrad (4): Witherweaver, ADK, 2.7, EgorK

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad, Lekkit
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 10:52:33 am
oh yeah, I guess there was that.

Hm.

dunno, I just... I'm feeling Egork. It feels like we'll hit scum! but Hydrad is an option, also because he's so hard to read later on.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 10:54:58 am
Egor doesn't feel like we hit scum to me. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:56:43 am
So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.

Last time we lynched someone who was away at deadline he was town (silverspawn).  I don't know how I feel about lynching Hydrad while he is gone, especially since he did not feel the need to basically guarantee EgorK's lynch by voting for him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 10:58:19 am
let's see their voting histories:

#69: Hydrad votes mail-mi (L-7)
#417: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-7)
#457: Hydrad votes Egork (L-6)
#529: Hydrad votes Witherweaver (L-5)
#556: Egork votes Hydrad (L-4)

oh, uhm, that's, well, short. eh. not really anything to go on. If anything it makes both of them scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 10:59:06 am
also this

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

'hey, now I can stop bussing'

This is a fun narrative.  But the chances that we have a two scum as targets D1 seems low to me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 11:01:21 am
This is a fun narrative.  But the chances that we have a two scum as targets D1 seems low to me.

yeah... well, if they are both scum, we're lynching scum either way, since it's between them now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 16, 2015, 11:01:47 am
I think I'll stay on Egork.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:07:11 am
Hydrad:

69: RVS vote on mail-mi
71: thinks he do not care much of flavor claiming but says he do not know much about flavor
97-98, 100: Dayvig is ok, but may be more useful later
108-109: In favor of dayvig because it is extra lynch
147: Gives DD day 1 pass for content
155: Vigvotes Awaclus
158: Do not want to vig mail-mi or DD
288: PoE list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860)
291: Thinks that e hadn't done much yet to warrant crossing off list
296: Thinks my post about mail-mi is towny
388: Thinks that chairs is town, asks whether he should flavor claim
389: thinks that shooting Ghacob do not provide much info
comments
457: votes for me, do not want to lynch ADK right now
495: says he ok hoping to WW
499: says WW vote on him is curious
529: switches to WW after mod mentions that there no need to have a absolute majority to lynch in this game

Would not mind switching here. I still think ADK is SK with big probability, but Hydrad is good candidate to be scum. On the other hand he always feel scummy

Hydrad's contribution is also pretty poor here: it's all theory/setup, side comments here and there without actually contributing anything.  And his voting history is very safe, middle of wagons everywhere, nothing controversial.  These are scum!Hydrad traits.

Is Egor cherry-picking Hydrad posts to make him look bad?  Well, let's do our own reread.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:10:04 am
Oh, your voting history should include vigvotes.

Hydrad:
Mail-Mi (RVS)
Awaclus (vigvote)
Egork (real vote)
WW (real vote)

Okay there's only one more vote there.  He didn't explain why he went for Awaclus, though I find that more towny.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:11:53 am
Also, 26 total posts from Hydrad.  Very low numbers for him. Egor is at 21.

Egor votes:
Mail-Mi (vigvote)
ADK (real vote)
Hydrad (real vote)

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 16, 2015, 11:22:43 am
I don't feel the Egor lynch at all. I don't even see why he's scummy. He's contributing, but not super much. That could be said about most peple in this game, though. Hydrad on the other hand is just flopping around all over the place, wouldn't mind lynching him. Although I would prefer and ADK lynch. I don't buy his claim. One bit. And I still haven't gotten any good explanation as to why he'd claim and shoot day 1.

Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 16, 2015, 11:23:53 am
I would also still be up for a Awaclus lynch. Everything he does is disagree with people without actually contributing.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 16, 2015, 11:27:43 am
I would also still be up for a Awaclus lynch. Everything he does is disagree with people without actually contributing.

I disagree.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:28:17 am
Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:32:56 am
Wait, I thought Chairs was going to be doing something tonight, not during the day phase.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Awaclus on June 16, 2015, 11:34:24 am
I guess Hydrad is fine. Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:35:01 am
Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

Do you think Hydrad is town, or just not as good of an option as Mail-Mi?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:36:08 am
And also I have to ask, are you contradicting Hockey, or did he just not know?  I find the latter a little unlikely...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 11:37:11 am
Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 11:38:16 am
Plus, this hydrad push feels a little like scum protection of a partner
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:38:24 am
Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it

Well, this is a good point.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:45:59 am
Quote
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Hydrad (4): Witherweaver, ADK, 2.7, EgorK

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad, Lekkit

So since then Lekkit for Hydrad, Awaclus for Hydrad, e for EgorK, so:

EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.7
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, ADK,   EgorK, Awaclus, Lekkit

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky,   Hydrad, 

So still tied.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Lekkit on June 16, 2015, 11:47:08 am
Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it

Well, this is a good point.

No. He was at 1 vote when he went away. The wagon formed after that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:47:48 am
Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

Hm... at this point I was the only one voting for Hydrad, and I already had two votes on me, and Egor had four or so.  I'm not sure Hydrad would have even considered himself in danger of being lynched. 

PPE: Lekkit saw it too
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:48:54 am
Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

Do you think Hydrad is town, or just not as good of an option as Mail-Mi?

Hockey should've known, we've been discussing it for a while. He's also busy so he may have misspoke. Can't talk much. Currently charging phone in he parking lot of piggly wiggly to get this in.

Chairs did his action during the day. I think mail-mi is scum.

I don't have a strong read on hydrad. Don't particularly think scum but I've been kind of absent. I'm null on Egor (leaning town) and think that it's a mistake to lynch here. I feel we can do better than just lynching based on him generally lurking.

I am sticking with mail-mi. I think he lied about being Cordelia and that's why he couldn't confirm/didn't claim he got targeted by chairs, which he would've done to confirm chairs' PR and to show he actually was cordie if he was town. I waited just I case He was waiting to claim but after some hints by me and hockey (or probes if you will, e.x. "Chairs did you at get anyone?") it's too late. We could've confirmed with chairs too to see if mail-mi really got the message that he was targeted. Unless something in ADKs message from mail contradicts this, I think he's scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 11:51:32 am
Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

I thought chairs' thing was a night action. I did get targeted for something during the day, which I didn't know was chairs' thing. But yes, chairs targeted me, I think. Is it good for town? Maybe . It could definitely have come from either town or scum.

I'm not feeling Hydrad. He feels like the Hydrad I've played with beforez
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:51:42 am
I'm not really understanding your case.

But at any rate, Mail-Mi isn't really viable today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 11:53:28 am
So are we leaving this up to chance?  I don't really like that idea.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:53:57 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 11:54:45 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

we can't do better in 5 minutes
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 16, 2015, 11:56:20 am
And EgorK is a gut town read for you?  I don't see anywhere that you have other explanations
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 11:56:42 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:57:03 am
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 11:57:46 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Oh, you're thinking that Chairs targets someone, but they only get a message if they have one of a set of flavor names?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 11:58:18 am
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:58:51 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.

If you had told the truth you should've gotten a PR saying what chairs power did to you. Unless I missed you claiming this, either means you lied or chairs did because he DID target you
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 11:59:25 am
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 11:59:34 am
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.

If you had told the truth you should've gotten a PR saying what chairs power did to you. Unless I missed you claiming this, either means you lied or chairs did because he DID target you

I got a pm. Didn't know that it was from chairs.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 12:00:21 pm
... why did you get a PM?  We all have QTs.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 12:01:15 pm
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:02:03 pm
We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Oh, you're thinking that Chairs targets someone, but they only get a message if they have one of a set of flavor names?

Yeah, chairs said mail-mi could confirm because he would've gotten a PM. I know chairs targeted him, but he never said anything about it. Thus I'm assuming that he lied about his flavor name and the PR didn't work, thus no message, no claim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:02:59 pm
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
[/quote
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:04:02 pm
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
[/quote
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....

Meant

Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:04:37 pm
Jesus I'm fucking up. You get what I mean. On phone
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 12:04:49 pm
QT makes more sense.

Okay I will say, I was targetting by something in my QT.  Doesn't necessarily have to come from a player, but no indication that it did or didn't.  If I did, I have a guess of the flavor name based on me watching some of Angel.

So, basically, anything like this I would think would come through QT.

PPEs
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: mail-mi on June 16, 2015, 12:05:06 pm
Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
I thought chairs' thing was a night action! What are you not getting about this? If he claimed day action then I must've missed it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:09:54 pm
I feel like you should share the message, mail, and chairs can confirm.

PPE: that's fair, then, but I find it fishy. If he's okay with you posting it tKomorrow and have. Him confirm it, I'll definitely believe you, but he seemed to want you to confirm to us that his power was good/helpful.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: chairs on June 16, 2015, 12:12:26 pm
I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 16, 2015, 12:16:20 pm
I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

Well can you answer, (1) do you know if it was successfully used on Mail-Mi?  (2) Is it something that if Mail-Mi were to be targetted with, he would know it comes from you?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 16, 2015, 12:16:49 pm
Day 1 Final Vote Count

mail-mi (1): hockeysemlan
EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Hydrad
Hydrad (6): Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK, Lekkit, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

Not Voting (0)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. THREAD LOCKED!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:18:34 pm
I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

Well can you answer, (1) do you know if it was successfully used on Mail-Mi?  (2) Is it something that if Mail-Mi were to be targetted with, he would know it comes from you?

Or some variation on this. Then we can see if he was lying And see if the targeting was successful. Maybe he could reveal something small to confirm
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 16, 2015, 12:18:58 pm
Sorry!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: faust on June 16, 2015, 12:19:11 pm
The whole group stands around the birch tree, petrified.

"That's quite impressive", says Spike. "I don't recall you mentioning you had an infestation of plantifying demons here. Is that even a thing? I have to say this is proving to turn out even more interesting than my last trip to Los Angeles."

"Remind me again why we brought
him along?", Xander complains.

Buffy still fixes her eyes on the tree, unable to move. "We have to turn her back into human form! Now! There must be something that can be done. Willow? Giles?"

"Well." Giles pushes his glasses up with his right forefinger. "Some very peculiar forms of magic are clearly at work here. It's fascinating... I've never heard of this happening before. I will have to consult the books. For now, I imagine the most important thing would be keeping the tree alive. As it stands here without soil for the roots and without direct sunlight, I would be surprised if it lasted for long. And as with any transfiguration, I would expect that if the transfigured form dies, then so does the original. Now Wesley, I trust you have a library in this building?"

With that, Giles and Wesley leave the room.

"Well, you heard the man", says Xander. "Time to move our little tree friend. I'll try to find some tool that might help us with that around here."

"Don't bother", says Willow, "I'm sure it will be no problem to move it magically." But Xander has already run away.

Then, suddenly, a scream from the hallway. "Xander?", yells Anya, her voice trembling.


Hydrad has been lynched! He was Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick.

Night 1 begins now and ends June 18 at noon. All night actions are due within 24 hours.

THREAD REMAINS LOCKED!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N1)
Post by: faust on June 18, 2015, 11:58:01 am
Angel and Buffy sit in a car, waiting. "Remind me again how this will be helping us track down the bastards that murdered Xander?", Buffy snaps impatiently.

"The woman that just went in that building is Lilah Morgan, Vice President of Wlfram&Hart's Special Projects Division. No supernatural incident in this city happens without her knowledge, in fact I suppose most of them are actually caused by her firm. We know that they're working to open a portal into a hell dimension, and we assume that they're the ones who caused the permanent darkness", replies Angel.

"Great", says Buffy, "so why don't we just go after her, beat the shit out of her, and see what she knows?"

"You mean torture? Come on, we're better than them. Besides... they undergo special training. It's unlikely that we will get any information from her that she doesn't want us to have."

"So what's the plan?"

"She's apparently running some errand for Wolfram&Hart. We'll find out who she's doing business with. And... well, I suppose then we'll beat the shit out of them."

"Now we're talking!"

"Look, the door opens. There she comes..."



"WHAT?", yells Willow. "My best friend dies, right there in your operations base, and you have nothing better to do than to take us to a karaoke bar? Sorry to tell you, but I'm really not in the mood for singing. I thought you had changed since high school, but this..."

"Shut it, witch bitch." Cordelia opens the door to the Caritas. "The owner of this place is an important source of information. He knows all kinds of demons, and their life stories. Plus, he can kinda see the future."

Lorne spots the group at the door. "Ah, welcome, welcome, dear friends. In this dark hour - and this time quite literally - it warms my soul to see a friendly face. And I see you brought new customers. Excellent. Girls, boys - let me introduce myself. My name is Lorne, and I am the host of this cozy little place."

"Listen, Lorne", says Wesley. "We don't have a lot of time. We need to find out what's going on."

"Why the rush? Its not like dawn would start anytime soon. Come here, have a little drink with me. I assume one of you wants to perform a song for me? May I suggest one of your friends? We're always eager to hear new voices here. What about you?" Lorne turns to Willow.

"Me? Sing?", Willow says, baffled. "No,I don't do that. I never do that. Here... let Anya. She likes singing - don't you?"

"I suppose...", Anya responds, hesitantly.


Noone died tonight.

THREAD UNLOCKED!


Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (13): 2.71828....., chairs, EgorK, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N1)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:02:02 pm
If anyone roleblocked me last night, he should claim it please. If no-one did, I'm about 95% sure that ADK was lying yesterday and we should probably lynch him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:03:50 pm
Just to get this out there, since there are day vigs. If I die during the day, lynch ADK immediately.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 18, 2015, 12:07:47 pm
I thought a little bit, read some and think much better of Vote: Awaclus for now. He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.
Lekkit, I think you wanted to do it too?

PPE: 2
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 18, 2015, 12:09:30 pm
Oh, I hope I was right about ADK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 12:14:58 pm
He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:18:17 pm
Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 18, 2015, 12:18:44 pm
He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.

It does not look as forced in previous games
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 18, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.

Are you sure? If yes, that's fantastic - night with no kills and 6 ICs oO
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 12:30:34 pm
He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.

It does not look as forced in previous games

It has been exactly as forced in previous games as it is here (i.e. very).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 18, 2015, 12:39:22 pm
I'm not AS certain of an Awaclus lynch.

Awaclus, would you mind flavor claiming?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 12:39:57 pm
Okay, so - Mcmc, how do you feel about my power? Do you think I should continue to utilize it? How can we maximize Town benefit from that?

--------------

How do we have DeDe saying ~6 people are protected/ICs?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:40:48 pm
Can I assume that everyone who doesn't claim to have RB'd be didn't RB me?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:41:04 pm
*me
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:41:59 pm
ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

ah, missed this. protected from what, exactly? from everything?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 12:42:07 pm
I don't get what DD is saying.

Silver, can you explain your thing more?

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:42:49 pm
Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.

Are you sure? If yes, that's fantastic - night with no kills and 6 ICs oO

Well, actually I'm going to full claim this power so we can openly discuss it.

I can protect however many people I want a night. Those protected cannot be targeted by those not protected... The caveat is that those protected are able to target those in the group. I.e. If I protect scum they can still kill. If I protect app but scum, we rule and no one dies.

So I protected myself, hockey, Ichi, ADK, WW, and mail-mi.

After the discussion with chairs and mail-mi, I figured I believed him enough and it was a misunderstanding.

That said, no one died which bodes well for those in the group. Scum could stall be there and just not be the scum performing the night kill. But I feel like this gives us a lot to go on.

WW: does that help?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 12:44:00 pm
Interesting.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:45:07 pm
All** still**

PPE (1): hockey can confirm when he gets on here. We've been discussing who to protect on our QT.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:45:19 pm

okay.

that makes what I was saying irrelevant. I'm not sure you should have fullclaimed that, though, since it sounds like a super strong role.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:46:47 pm
Silver, can you explain your thing more?

doesn't matter anymore, so no
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 12:49:02 pm
Uh, I think there's an issue, but I have to check things.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:50:07 pm

okay.

that makes what I was saying irrelevant. I'm not sure you should have fullclaimed that, though, since it sounds like a super strong role.

It is a strong role, but trust me it's okay. Only a day vig/role block can stop me, and I'm hoping this info alone will help us enough to negate the loss.  Didn't know how else to get everyone to believe me otherwise/ understand.

PPE (1):
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 12:51:09 pm
I think DD is lying, but I don't understand why.

DD, this is your ability?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:53:53 pm
I think DD is lying, but I don't understand why.

DD, this is your ability?

I can't say too much more. Other roles/powers/items may have effected it, but those are the people I protected and what happened.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:54:22 pm
Only a day vig/role block can stop me

why on earth would you claim that
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 12:55:52 pm
I mean..  you took this action?  You're a Mason, a Watcher, and  a multi protector thing?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:57:39 pm
Only a day vig/role block can stop me

why on earth would you claim that

So we could get info from it. My protection extends to myself, as well, so only role block/ vig kill gets me. I think this info helps a lot though.

PPE(1): watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 12:58:46 pm
Oh I see what you meant silver. Those are just what I assume, since I can't be targeted by anything else.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 12:59:46 pm
watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.

you mean it fails because players in the group are not protected from one another - or do you mean it fails because the power just stops doing stuff if you included scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 01:00:10 pm
You can't Watch at night?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 01:02:08 pm
Question: Does it make sense for scum to have Watcher?  Would that suggest multiball?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 01:04:00 pm
I'm not AS certain of an Awaclus lynch.

Awaclus, would you mind flavor claiming?

I'm Lorne. Scum probably knows that much already, so it should be pretty safe to claim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:08:06 pm
watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.

you mean it fails because players in the group are not protected from one another - or do you mean it fails because the power just stops doing stuff if you included scum?

I fucked up guys. It was a one-shot, that's why I wasn't afraid to mention it. I could have only died that night from role blocking or a vig in the day.

Basically I only have watching now and mason.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:08:39 pm
Just realize I failed to mention that in the first post about this.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:18:24 pm
Okay, rereading, this did not work and I messed up.

So Hockey actually had that power and it was a one-shot. I originally thought it had infinite shots. In order to give us this info from the night's protection, I figured I'd claim the power and then hockey would be safe to protect again even if I got role blocked/vig'd, etc.

Then I realized it was a one-shot after looking over my QT with hockey. And now we're here.

That being said:

Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Leaning town on Silver. He's right to point that out that I'm dumb.

Null on egor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:20:22 pm
Sorry, guys. I dropped the ball on that one. Thankfully, it doesn't really do much else, except confuse, since it is only a one-shot. But still, sorry, y'all. That's more confusion then was needed. Thought I was helping by protecting hockey's power. I'm just dumb.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 01:22:55 pm
hey don't worry. nothing lost.

and yeah, your power makes a lot more sense as a one shot.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:28:24 pm
hey don't worry. nothing lost.

and yeah, your power makes a lot more sense as a one shot.

Thanks, but yeah one shot of hockey.

That's probably the reason for no night kill. Also seems to indicate at least a better chance those on that list are town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 01:38:19 pm
Blergh. I think it's probably time I go ahead and further my semi-claim a bit more. My power only works on women and is a Day action. It gives them the option to use their (Night) action twice, or (other thing that I don't think it's yet prudent to explain). If they do (other thing) I get notified that they did it.

This is why I was interested in flavor claims, and because my action is a Day action it's why I was so worried about mail-mi (who I targeted yesterday) not getting lynched.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 01:38:50 pm
DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 18, 2015, 01:48:44 pm
Vote: Awaclus

Because of lying scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 01:52:10 pm
Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Because he knows he's scum and that it had to be wrong.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 18, 2015, 01:54:34 pm
Vote Count 2.1

Awaclus (3): EgorK, mail-mi, Lekkit

Not Voting (10): 2.71828....., chairs, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 01:55:05 pm
DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.

If you could extend this that'd be helpful.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 01:55:30 pm
DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.

Looking forward to this. vote: Awaclus.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 01:55:54 pm
Actually, unvote. I want to ensure I get my Day action in before we lynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 01:56:12 pm
Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Because he knows he's scum and that it had to be wrong.

How?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 01:56:30 pm
And, why?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:02:28 pm
How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 02:04:39 pm
How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:07:17 pm
How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 02:11:52 pm
I just want to reiterate.

I have proven no one to be town.

At most, we know those listed did not die, so they very well could still be town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 02:21:26 pm
How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.

Yeah, good thing I got out way ahead of that one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 02:23:01 pm
How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.

Yeah, good thing I got out way ahead of that one.

Yes, this makes me think you're scum, WW. Regardless of all my reads, the fact I called you town and you said I lied, well obvi you're just scum.

That being said, I feel awalcus is scum, I'd like mail-mi's proof though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 18, 2015, 02:25:33 pm
Not trying to steal mail-mi's thunder. But I found out Awaclus is human. Lorne is not human.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:25:40 pm
I just want to reiterate.

I have proven no one to be town.

At most, we know those listed did not die, so they very well could still be town.

I believe that we should lynch outside of those six people.

And by that, I mean, we should lynch awaclus.

To explain: First, the QT message I got yesterday during the day was not from chairs. It was an invitation to join the Caritas neighborhood. Chairs' message I got at the beginning of the night, and it did exactly what he said it could. I chose the first option, opting to use my Oracle power twice in the night. First I asked if there were any town masons in this game, which got the answer Yes. So i'm pretty sure DeDe and hockey are not lying.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

I'm not completely 100% sure, but I'm ninety-nine percent sure that Awaclus is a lying scum and we should lynch him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:26:01 pm
Not trying to steal mail-mi's thunder. But I found out Awaclus is human. Lorne is not human.
More proof that Awaclus is not who he says he is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 02:28:46 pm
I can confirm what Mail-Mi has said with regard to Caritas; I was in it as well.  He also claimed he had Oracle there.

This all makes Awaclus look bad.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:31:24 pm
I can confirm what Mail-Mi has said with regard to Caritas; I was in it as well.  He also claimed he had Oracle there.

This all makes Awaclus look bad.

I also claimed it in thread dear Witherweaver.  ;)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:31:44 pm
But I found out Awaclus is human.

This is not true.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 02:34:01 pm

that's some great usage of oracle - if it's true.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:34:34 pm
But I found out Awaclus is human.

This is not true.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

I realize I should have asked if there was a town role that could invite people to the Caritas neighborhood, but the deadline was gone by the time I realized that. Which is why I'm not 100% sure, but I'm still lynching you today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 02:34:52 pm
Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

@mail: you should try to get a confirmation from faust about whether or not it counts as creating if he invites you.

maybe you wouldn't get an answer, but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:35:13 pm

that's some great usage of oracle - if it's true.

Why thank you, and it is true. Also, see above.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 02:36:38 pm
It's definitely worth a try.

But for now, he is probably lying about his flavor name, or he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

Vote: Awalcus.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:36:47 pm
Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

@mail: you should try to get a confirmation from faust about whether or not it counts as creating if he invites you.

maybe you wouldn't get an answer, but it's worth a try.

Asked.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:39:11 pm
It's definitely worth a try.

But for now, he is probably lying about his flavor name, or he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

Vote: Awalcus.

I'm not very familiar with the flavor, but AFAIK, it should make sense for me to have my ability of inviting people to my club.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:42:13 pm
Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:43:56 pm
Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.

Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

Anyone got a vig?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 02:45:18 pm
Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.

Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

Anyone got a vig?

This
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 02:45:37 pm
Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

even if that's true, it doesn't make you town. this is RMM, town probably has several ways to kill you without lynching you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 02:46:15 pm
well, I don't think if anyone had a vig, he should claim it now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 02:46:28 pm
Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

I don't think so.

even if that's true, it doesn't make you town. this is RMM, town probably has several ways to kill you without lynching you.

Well, it's true that it doesn't make me town. I'm town regardless.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 02:49:08 pm
well, I don't think if anyone had a vig, he should claim it now.

Yes. Don't claim if you have a way to kill without the lynch. Just kill if you want to. If rather us have him dead since he's only lynch proof, and then we can use the lynch on someone else and have the info of awalcus' flip. His flip alone will give us a lot of info
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 02:49:55 pm
Just to think, ADK could have been hero :(
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 02:57:25 pm
Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 18, 2015, 03:02:13 pm
V/la through Wednesday. Just checking in. If people have specific questions for me I will answer them when I can. I will check in when I can. I don't follow the whole Awaclus lynch, need to reread the reasoning, but we definitely don't want to lynch anyone before the day action window.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 03:04:52 pm
Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 03:06:46 pm
And it's L-1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 03:06:55 pm
Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.

It's extremely likely to hit town lynchproof here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 03:10:07 pm
Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.

It's extremely likely to hit scum lynchproof here.

FTFY.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 03:12:00 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 03:13:10 pm
unvote.

No reason to let a hammer happen and end the day.


4 scum, probably either means 2 two person scum teams or 3 scum and a SK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 03:16:10 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 03:19:31 pm
Also does someone want to shed light on the PM to ADK that stopped him from wanting to lynch mail-mi?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 18, 2015, 03:19:50 pm
phone posting. incredibly busy atm,  I should be back tonight and can catch up then.
ppe: 1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 03:21:13 pm
Also does someone want to shed light on the PM to ADK that stopped him from wanting to lynch mail-mi?
I sent him a message. It contained the part of my role that I don't want everyone to know about.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 03:27:00 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 03:30:43 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

So your neighborhood prevents targetting each other?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 03:31:38 pm
If we don't dare to lynch Awaclus today I wish for Lekkit. The wagon on Hydrad was so fast and strange, I can't really understand what happened there.. WW, ADK and DeDe is town for today, so we don't really have to dig there, but Lekkits reason to vote Hydrad?

I don't feel the Egor lynch at all. I don't even see why he's scummy. He's contributing, but not super much. That could be said about most peple in this game, though. Hydrad on the other hand is just flopping around all over the place, wouldn't mind lynching him. Although I would prefer and ADK lynch. I don't buy his claim. One bit. And I still haven't gotten any good explanation as to why he'd claim and shoot day 1.

Vote: Hydrad

It's merely nothing. "flopping around". Sure, the case on EgorK wasn't any big either, put pushing a change the last day out of nowhere? It was pretty devestating for me since I couldn't be around. To me, he might just be scum for this. Plus he scumpaints ADK, which I found scummy as well, even if he isn't IC..

PPEs
 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 03:32:41 pm
If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Another Shield-mechanism? Who was there?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 03:36:54 pm
If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Another Shield-mechanism? Who was there?

Me, mail-mi, WW and silverspawn.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 03:38:57 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Yeah I'm not really buying this. That sounds like you're on the ropes and just randomly threw it in to get out of it. He very well could've targeted someone else in hockey's protection.

Also, there are still other scum. We should do some narratives/something.

Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 03:54:12 pm
Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.

No, no one in the neighborhood could target each other.

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
he meaning ADK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 04:01:52 pm
Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.

No, no one in the neighborhood could target each other.

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
he meaning ADK.

Ah okay :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 04:13:25 pm
Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

Oh never mind ADK was part of the protected group, which means the protection wouldn't have worked and I would have died.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 18, 2015, 05:12:12 pm
I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:15:04 pm
I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 18, 2015, 05:16:01 pm
I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.

Doesn't matter; the results are against you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 18, 2015, 05:17:02 pm
Why didn't you claim 1-shot lynchproof at the start of game?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:22:03 pm
Why didn't you claim 1-shot lynchproof at the start of game?

Why would I?

Doesn't matter; the results are against you.

Lekkit's result, yes, but his result is false. Your result can't be against me.

Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:22:44 pm
I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.

I don't think anybody cares how you have played in the past. The fact that you keep referencing your own meta kind of defeats the purpose because your so conscious of it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:23:36 pm
It's also kind of scummy to give items to unconfirmed people instead of hockey or myself, which have the highest likelihood to be town.....
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:24:50 pm
I don't think anybody cares how you have played in the past.

And that's why I'm saying you should, so you could stop mislynching me every time. Well, just wasting a lynch in this case, but it still sucks, especially if you're still going to spend tomorrow mislynching me again.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 05:28:22 pm
Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn

thanks! (whatever it is)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:28:59 pm
Mail, why didn't you just ask if Awalcus was scum rather than doing it in a round about way?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 05:29:15 pm
note that we might not want to lynch awaclus if killing him is an easier way to achieve the same thing

of course, we don't know if we have vigs until someone claims, and we don't want them to claim... but it's still worth a thought.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:31:01 pm
note that we might not want to lynch awaclus if killing him is an easier way to achieve the same thing

of course, we don't know if we have vigs until someone claims, and we don't want them to claim... but it's still worth a thought.

We most certainly don't want to lynch Awaclus. We don't want to kill him either.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 05:32:11 pm
there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:32:41 pm
Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:33:24 pm
Awaclus' flavor makes sense, though.  Given his association with Carnitas. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:34:06 pm
there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?

Because he didn't know about the human thing?

I'm beginning to think silver spawn is his scum partner. Got an item, this. It's a possibility at least for a scum partner.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:34:28 pm
Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Possible vig shot probably or something else.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:34:40 pm
Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 05:34:56 pm
Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn

thanks! (whatever it is)

What is it? Even if I'm null on silver he isn't clearad in any single way yet so this feel very very risky as a townmove. Which I strongly suspect you aren't.

And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

Feel free to play more protown anytime soon..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 05:35:23 pm
Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?

Can't be this. Hockey and I are town masons.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 18, 2015, 05:40:27 pm
Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Usually a lynch-proof person getting lynched still ends the day, but he just survives.

Also, I have no clue what is happening now. There is a result on Awaclus saying "not human" but Awaclus says that is not the same as being scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:40:40 pm
Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?

Can't be this. Hockey and I are town masons.

I mean there could be something like a mass confusion, where all X and Y results are switched (Guilty <-> Innocent, etc.)

In the other RMM game, there was a mechanic that messed with night targets; how it worked was public knowledge, but if it went off or not wasn't completely determinable, I think. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:41:07 pm
Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Usually a lynch-proof person getting lynched still ends the day, but he just survives.

Also, I have no clue what is happening now. There is a result on Awaclus saying "not human" but Awaclus says that is not the same as being scum?

No, the result says he *is* human, but his flavor is actually not human.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:41:49 pm
And yes, the day may end, but if he's still going to be alive, why is it that "crazy"?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 05:42:16 pm
there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?

Because he didn't know about the human thing?

I'm beginning to think silver spawn is his scum partner. Got an item, this. It's a possibility at least for a scum partner.

uhhh what? why on earth would he give an item to his scum partner?

I haven't 'taken' this item. I don't have any say in it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:47:51 pm
And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

And yet you suspect that I'm also scum on top of that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 18, 2015, 05:49:15 pm
I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:50:38 pm
I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 05:51:42 pm
And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

And yet you suspect that I'm also scum on top of that.

I simply think you're lying in one way or the other.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 05:53:21 pm
Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 18, 2015, 05:55:53 pm
Ok. I get the claim, I get the case, everything.

Don't want to lynch yet. Got to go. My ride arrived
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 05:56:51 pm
I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

Finally someone gets it.

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.

What if I invite people and they all decline? From the way my ability is worded, I believe a QT would be created for just me in that case.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 06:00:38 pm
Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 06:00:54 pm
I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

Finally someone gets it.

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.

What if I invite people and they all decline? From the way my ability is worded, I believe a QT would be created for just me in that case.

Hmm.. you have a point, though none of us know how your ability is worded.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 06:01:56 pm
Could you have used the item, or only given it to someone?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 06:06:52 pm
Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 06:08:29 pm
The item can be used, but only under certain circumstances which is why I haven't been able to use it.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 06:15:54 pm
Okay

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit

Why would Lekkit lie here?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 06:22:10 pm

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.
[/quote]

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit
[/quote]

Why would Lekkit lie here?
[/quote]

Awaclus could be easy lynch to make, antitownish-style as he likes to play, why not build up the fire with something we can't confirm is wrong? Not a very dsngerous move to make for scum.

Of course, lekkit could just be wrong due to other circumstances, but I still rather see him lynched than Awaclus for today, right now.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 06:24:02 pm
I'm fine with believing Awalcus, on the condition that Faust gives a reply to mail-mi. That would change a lot. Then I'd be more susceptible to believing that Lekkit is lying or redirected/confused, etc. but until then I'm staying here.

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 06:25:08 pm
I'm having a hard time buying this.. scum!Lekkit decides to fake a "guilty" result on town!Awaclus out of the blue to ensure he gets lynched on Day 2, and then plans to use some "well, someone messed up my results" argument when Awaclus flips town?

And what do you mean we can't confirm is wrong?  If we lynch Awaclus and he's not scum, Lekkit was wrong.

PPE
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 18, 2015, 06:28:18 pm
hockey, that seems kind of weird. Unless I'm in cohorts with mail-mi, I see no reason as to why I would fake a claim that Awaclus is human.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 18, 2015, 06:31:23 pm
Also, my flavor makes sense if I was redirected but not really if I was "confused".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 06:33:29 pm
Awaclus could be easy lynch to make, antitownish-style as he likes to play, why not build up the fire with something we can't confirm is wrong? Not a very dsngerous move to make for scum.

Except you'd know he was lying after I flipped town. Maybe he could try to convince everyone that there really is a role that messes up those results, but I think it's more likely that said role just actually exists.

Vote: WW

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.

I think he doesn't actually receive the item until the end of the day action window.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 06:35:24 pm
I'm having a hard time buying this.. scum!Lekkit decides to fake a "guilty" result on town!Awaclus out of the blue to ensure he gets lynched on Day 2, and then plans to use some "well, someone messed up my results" argument when Awaclus flips town?

And what do you mean we can't confirm is wrong?  If we lynch Awaclus and he's not scum, Lekkit was wrong.

PPE

If I understood the claim correctly he didn't find him guilty, he just accused him of lying about his flavor? Since we have a quite big case on Awaclus it can just be seen as adding a piece to the picture, it wouldn't necesserily be a big deal when the flip comes.. Lekkit has been pushing Awaclus on D1 too.. when he also can blame it on some redirection-things going on, it could end up being quite easy to get out of the fire the next day. 

I don't think his accusation on Awaclus is so important. My main case on Lekkit is for the mislynch on Hydrad. It's not too strong, but perhaps stronger than what we have on Awacus right now. I'm fine with both, but I can't figure out what Scum!Awaclus is doing right now..

PPEs
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 06:38:38 pm
My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 06:53:18 pm
My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 06:54:21 pm
My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..

Witherweaver is a good option.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 06:56:20 pm
My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..

Witherweaver is a good option.

Not for me. Shieldreasons. And he is very pro-town. I don't lynch pro-towns until I need to.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 18, 2015, 07:00:24 pm
I'm fine with believing Awalcus, on the condition that Faust gives a reply to mail-mi. That would change a lot. Then I'd be more susceptible to believing that Lekkit is lying or redirected/confused, etc. but until then I'm staying here.

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.

so far I can't confirm anything, because I haven't received anything.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 07:04:42 pm
Not for me. Shieldreasons. And he is very pro-town. I don't lynch pro-towns until I need to.

There's no shield that prevents WW's partner(s) from trying to kill someone protected, as far as I know.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 07:05:26 pm
And he was scummy yesterday, and his position on the Hydrad wagon is pretty bad.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 18, 2015, 07:06:48 pm
Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 18, 2015, 07:09:58 pm
And he was scummy yesterday, and his position on the Hydrad wagon is pretty bad.

He was the initial one..? As far as I know theory your position is much, much worse..

WW is ALWAYS "artificially" relaxed and jokey...

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 18, 2015, 07:11:17 pm
Ok. Catching up. I have a few other things going on today though, but I will at least catch up by late tonight.

Also, DeDe's avatar is missing...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 18, 2015, 10:34:42 pm
Ok. Catching up. I have a few other things going on today though, but I will at least catch up by late tonight.

Also, DeDe's avatar is missing...

think it might be a phone thing, because it doesn't show up on my phone but shows up on my computer. It's odd.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 18, 2015, 10:55:02 pm
So:
1. Hockey has some ability to protect a bunch of people at once, and he used it last night.
2. There was some neighborhood last night with who in it again? I couldn't find where this was originally claimed.
3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum?
4. Lekkit has some power to determine race? Um species? of people and this directly conflicts with Awaclus's claimed flavor.

Did I miss anything important?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 18, 2015, 10:55:47 pm
After falling this far behind, I'm really getting the "madness" part of role madness.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 18, 2015, 11:03:06 pm
Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 19, 2015, 01:35:18 am
Mail, why didn't you just ask if Awalcus was scum rather than doing it in a round about way?

I can't ask about players. Only things that are in the set up.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 02:22:47 am
On the boat and back in cell coverage.

I've skimmed to catch up.  Won't have any real time to devote to this for at least a few hours.

(The Great Barrier Reef is definitely amazing.)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 19, 2015, 03:12:15 am
Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 19, 2015, 03:18:23 am
Vote Count 2.2

Awaclus (3): EgorK, mail-mi, Lekkit
Lekkit (1): hockeysemlan
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (8): 2.71828....., chairs, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Delirious Deleuze

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 19, 2015, 04:18:24 am
Midsummer eve here in Sweden today. I won't be super available.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 19, 2015, 05:39:26 am
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 06:09:26 am
Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.

But it should happen at the start of the Day action window now, without the need for me to submit it again, right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 06:12:44 am
So:
1. Hockey has some ability to protect a bunch of people at once, and he used it last night.
2. There was some neighborhood last night with who in it again? I couldn't find where this was originally claimed.
3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum?
4. Lekkit has some power to determine race? Um species? of people and this directly conflicts with Awaclus's claimed flavor.

2. Me, silverspawn, WW and mail-mi.
3. No, he asked a question about the neighborhood and it basically means nothing.
4. Yes.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 06:13:33 am
Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 19, 2015, 07:13:58 am
Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.

But it should happen at the start of the Day action window now, without the need for me to submit it again, right?

Yes, if the day doesn't end before that happens.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 07:29:34 am
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 09:06:13 am
Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.

But this is not true, so...?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 09:49:59 am
Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.

But this is not true, so...?

I think it is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 09:51:38 am
But it's not.

Do you have any other ideas of interest?  (I.e., on people that might be scum.)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 19, 2015, 10:34:41 am
I may not be available for the rest of the day. Day action window starts in 1.5 hours as usual. I will resolve all orders when I get back, in the order they were posted. Please be patient.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 10:43:43 am
3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum
3. No, he asked a question about the neighborhood and it basically means nothing.

Uhm has this been confirmed by Faust?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 11:13:46 am
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Definitely a possibility - I see it's already been mentioned, but Lorne is Survivor at worst and generally Town. That doesn't mean Awaclus isn't scum, but I had a Town read on Awaclus already. I think Lekkit's result got interfered with somehow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 19, 2015, 12:02:19 pm
Day action window is now open and closes June 21 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 19, 2015, 12:17:35 pm
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 12:19:05 pm
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?

WW said he's a vampire. So it's the question whether or not 'demon' is a collection term for monsters or just a specific monster - 'is a vampire a demon?'
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 12:19:20 pm
Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?

Angel and Spike are both vampires... I don't know the other two names offhand.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 12:25:33 pm
so, this is interesting...  I have received the item Awaclus gave me.

Here's the thing - it's very good. Like, really good. I won't claim what it does, but... yeah, it's valuable. I don't see any reason why scum!Awaclus would give this away.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 12:27:54 pm
maybe he did it so I would defend him, but that's a stretch

maybe he did it because scum has some power which makes whoever holds this item die? the item itself does not indicate such a power though. seems like a stretch.

maybe his scum buddies can steal it from me now that they know I have it.

Overall though, this does make me not want to lynch Awaclus anymore... at least not lynch him, if a vig wants to shoot him than that's not as bad.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 12:30:37 pm
I continue to not want to see Awaclus vigged or lynched, I think he's Town.

I'm really curious about this item, but I won't pry.

vote: Ichimaru Gin. I don't feel like we've really explored/discussed IG.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 19, 2015, 12:39:30 pm
Well, you want to start off the discussion?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 19, 2015, 12:41:08 pm
Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 12:41:51 pm
okay, I just asked faust whether or not vampires are demons, and he said it's in the OP... so, yeah, they are demons.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 19, 2015, 12:58:07 pm
Faust can't answer my question. I could ask it again tonight, (and maybe have chairs give me the two-times power again?) except with "invite."
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 01:05:02 pm
Faust can't answer my question. I could ask it again tonight, (and maybe have chairs give me the two-times power again?) except with "invite."

My concern with this is that I think you're a likely NK target.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 01:05:52 pm
Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 01:06:19 pm
I mean, granted, I could be wrong, but that's what it appears to be based on the way it's been trickled out.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 01:07:28 pm
Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".

I think it was only one directional.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 19, 2015, 01:09:34 pm
Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".

I think it was only one directional.
Yeah, that was my understanding. So the people that were protected couldn't be targeted by people who weren't protected; but, the people who were protected could target anyone they wanted.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 01:12:35 pm
Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

It's not that bad if there's a good reason to believe someone in there (such as WW) is scum. And defending Awaclus is a pro-town thing to do, since scum could just push the easy mislynch, waste two entire days mislynching a townie, and probably even get away with it.

Faust can't answer my question.

See, this is what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 01:21:02 pm
Also, we're at D2. If Awaclus and I were scum partners, do you think I'd defend him this hard? I think it'd be better to stay sidelined or even pop him myself for the credit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 01:26:09 pm
Also, we're at D2. If Awaclus and I were scum partners, do you think I'd defend him this hard? I think it'd be better to stay sidelined or even pop him myself for the credit.

I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

I think he'd give that to silver just to get town cred, at the very least, or maybe to a scum partner under the guise of trying to help town. Again, could've given it to me or hockey, but instead gives it to someone that isn't confirmed town because he thinks it just might help more.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 01:53:08 pm
I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

Yeah, where "tentative scum result and a lie result" == "nothing and a false result", respectively. Which is absolutely not better than the case on WW.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 02:00:12 pm
I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

Yeah, where "tentative scum result and a lie result" == "nothing and a false result", respectively. Which is absolutely not better than the case on WW.

What's the case on WW, again?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 02:00:41 pm
FWIW my top Town reads this game so far are awaclus and mail-mi.

That's even over hockey and DeDe, our claimed masons.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 02:30:14 pm
FWIW my top Town reads this game so far are awaclus and mail-mi.

That's even over hockey and DeDe, our claimed masons.

Are you doubting their masonhood?  You shouldn't.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 02:31:14 pm
Or, at least, RMM-version-of-mason-hood
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 02:32:46 pm
What's the case on WW, again?

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 19, 2015, 02:53:42 pm
Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 02:56:53 pm
I don't agree with the first point; the second point is wrong---Hydrad was a good choice for yesterday.  I don't really know what the third point means.  The people that have claimed something so far have had reason to be believed.  I had no nervous response to you; that is confirmation bias. 

I wasn't aware of my scum reads on Mail-Mi and Silverspawn.  I think I didn't really like Mail-Mi wagon yesterday, and I don't remember what Silverspawn was like. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 19, 2015, 02:57:31 pm
Also. I'm a demon, if that matters.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 02:57:38 pm
Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.

I'm glad we agree you were redirected or otherwise made to receive bad data.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 03:07:47 pm
What's the case on WW, again?

  • Posting a massive amount of absolutely nothing
  • Scummy position on the Hydrad wagon
  • Pseudo-contributing towards my D1 wagon without really committing to anything
  • Buddying various people who had claimed something
  • Nervous response to my accusations in the neighborhood QT
    • Scum reads on mail-mi and silverspawn (who I believe are town) for weak reasons

    Or you could go read him yourself and come to your own conclusions. Doing so is a huge pain in the ass though, because of the first point.
Wait a second... Uhm why did you choose WW to be in your neighborhood? [/list]
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 03:40:13 pm
Wait a second... Uhm why did you choose WW to be in your neighborhood? [/list]

I had to make the choice during the day action window, and I had to make it in a hurry because some IRL stuff suddenly came up that day and I wasn't sure if I would have been back before the deadline. At that point, I just chose people arbitrarily. Then it turned out that said IRL stuff didn't need me after all, which is why I was around for the deadline, but I didn't really see a reason to change my targets anymore.

Inviting WW turned out to be a brilliant idea however, because that meant he couldn't target me, mail-mi or silverspawn. Perhaps scum wanted to kill mail-mi, and that's why they had a non-WW scum perform the kill, which then failed.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 03:42:18 pm
Brilliant.  You've foiled all of our plans.  MVP to you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 03:42:51 pm
... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 19, 2015, 03:44:08 pm
I am waiting for some clarification from faust
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 03:44:41 pm
DD/Hockey, I'm unclear:

Can those in the "protected" group target those outside of the "protected" group?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 03:47:25 pm
... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?

I don't know if you did. It's a possibility, though.

I am waiting for some clarification from faust

What kind of clarification?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 03:50:23 pm
... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?

I don't know if you did. It's a possibility, though.

I am waiting for some clarification from faust

It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

Why did you say Mail-Mi?

What kind of clarification?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 03:50:36 pm
Quoting is lame.  Repeating:

It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

Why did you say Mail-Mi?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 03:55:47 pm
Quoting is lame.  Repeating:

It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

Why did you say Mail-Mi?

Because mail-mi was one of those protected by the protection. Silverspawn and I weren't, so if your partner tried to kill me or silverspawn, we'd have a dead me or silverspawn now, respectively. It's also possible that scum wanted to kill you, but that would either mean that scum wanted to kill someone from their own faction, which doesn't really sound very plausible, or that you aren't scum, which is even less likely.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 04:00:29 pm
But then that applies to anyone in the protection. 

I have to assume you're just not being serious when you say these things.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 04:15:39 pm
DD/Hockey, I'm unclear:

Can those in the "protected" group target those outside of the "protected" group?

Here's the deal: The players I chose got in one group, the rest in another. Players can target each other IN respective group but not outside it. We had no NK, and I think it probable DeDe or myself was going to be the target, and that should mean the following:

Scum can absolutely be in the chosen group, but it's guaranteed there's scum outside it. If all scum we're in the group I chose there would be a NK if they tried to get DeDe or me. We hade none, someone outside the group shoot inside it or vice versa.

Of course. Scum could have chosen someone else out of DeDe and me and thus be in the group altogheter, but how likely is that..? I ask non-rethoricly since I'm quite new. We can't make anyone IC out of this, but we can use it to narrow down probable target to lynch today if we want.

How do you feel? I suggest we lynch outside the group for today and make a overall-look for D3. Assumptions are never solide (I recently learnt the hard way), but they can be useful to make things a little more easier just for one day.

Therefore I don't really like what chairs is doing, even if I'm somehow agree that awaclus is townie. Can he be an option?

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 04:18:27 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 04:20:22 pm
Protection is really the wrong word. The power shielded some players from others, there's really nothing more to it. If we want, we can just be happy there was no NK and treat it as nothing in the future.. 

PPE: I got the wordings and I might have explained it unclear to DeDe. This above is as clear as I can get in english though..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 19, 2015, 04:27:52 pm
And who was in each group?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 04:28:58 pm
And who was in each group?

Is listed above but: DeDe, me, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi. The rest in the other.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 04:38:13 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

That would be me. Called it :D
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 04:46:46 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

That would be me. Called it :D

Sorry I tried to explain it based on how I explained it! Confusion all around! Sorry!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 04:49:12 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

That would be me. Called it :D

20 townpoints to you, then :P

But look, IG was discussed D1, and some consensus were reached around that he has a confrontative-style, that can be seen as scummy if you like, but that it's generally townie and he has been helpful in this game. He's in the chosen group so it's a longshot to go for him today. The case against him needs to be big, and I can't see that happening.

Why do you want us to go for IG? To me it seems like a waste of time..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 19, 2015, 04:54:01 pm
chairs has a history of finding me scummy by default.
I think chairs's read on Awaclus requires some mental gymnastics, but this is RMM, so who knows.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 19, 2015, 04:58:02 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

That would be me. Called it :D

Why did you think that?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 05:18:12 pm
Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

That would be me. Called it :D

Why did you think that?

It makes more sense as a power. I'd like to also point out that it means there's not a "protected" group and a "not-protected" group. Assuming scum have a NK that was blocked due to this power, all we can derive is that the NKing scum was not in the same group as their target.  The groups are:

Group 1: Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ADK, IG, WW, Mail-Mi.
Group 2: e, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.

This means (for folks with Night actions) that anything you did to target someone outside of your group failed. For example, I had targeted mail-mi - luckily my power is a Day power and therefore wasn't impacted, but if it had been a Night power it would have failed.

We also had the following group from Awaclus:

No-target Neighbors: Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

I will, however, go ahead and lay off IG, because the reality is that I think mail-mi was the obvious choice for the NK (I'd already openly stated I was going to use a support power on him) and barring other protections IG could have shot him.

Based on this information, and assuming claims so far at least in this regard are true, our lynch pool should be (if you think mail-mi is drawing the NK):

WW
e
EgorK
silverspawn
ashersky
Lekkit

I exclude myself because I know I'm Town, and I've excluded Awaclus because if his neighborhood is really no-targetting-each-other he'd ensure he didn't take the shot.

If instead you believe one of the Masons was shot at, then anybody in group 1 is "safe" for Today and you should lynch from group 2, ignoring Awaclus's neighborhood.

What do folks think about ashersky/e/EgorK?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 05:33:16 pm
Well, this makes things quite a bit different.

So basically WW just targeted someone not in group 1.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:02:55 pm
Awaclus tunneling WW is scum faking a town trait.

WW is, unfortunately for everyone who loves lynching WW, town, I think.

Chairs is trying harder than ever before.  That deserves another day of life,me cause active!chairs is great.

I still think hockey is scummy, but until one of him or DD dies to show us they were lying, I'm treating them as masons.  But man, masons with so many extra powers, all the lying and lying and misleading statements....maybe this is finally the time scum has claimed masons.

We have zero confirmation that the shielded group actually existed, right?  And we have Lekkit claiming he was able to target across the shield.  Anyone else have a claim that refutes hockey?

Basically, we are at Lekkit vs. masons, right?  That's the only counterclaim so far.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:23:28 pm
We have zero confirmation that the shielded group actually existed, right?  And we have Lekkit claiming he was able to target across the shield.  Anyone else have a claim that refutes hockey?

Basically, we are at Lekkit vs. masons, right?  That's the only counterclaim so far.

What now? First, the NK should be some proof to you that the shield-power exists. If not, I would like to hear some speculation on what happened at night. Proper doctor? 

Second, Lekkit targeting Awaclus should go through since they were in the same group. Players in the SAME group could still target each other. There's no reason to put masons vs. lekkit

Thirdly, other than being masons I have 3 1-shotspower. Strong or not, it's not unbelievable.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:27:04 pm

WW
e
EgorK
silverspawn
ashersky
Lekkit

I exclude myself because I know I'm Town, and I've excluded Awaclus because if his neighborhood is really no-targetting-each-other he'd ensure he didn't take the shot.

If instead you believe one of the Masons was shot at, then anybody in group 1 is "safe" for Today and you should lynch from group 2, ignoring Awaclus's neighborhood.

What do folks think about ashersky/e/EgorK?

I like it. I would personally replace e with someone else, he was very townie D1, but other than that it's a plan I could get behind.

Vote: EgorK

properly this time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:29:38 pm
Fudge, I missed the Lekkit thing. Never mind*
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 06:31:40 pm
vote: EgorK - this is what makes the most sense to me right now, unless it's ash/ww or scummasonclaim.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:32:22 pm
Lekkit himself said the hockey shield should have blocked his power.  That's what I was going off of.  If he wasn't going across the shield, obviously I retract that bit.

As for no night kill...it's very naive of you (or newbish, or scummy) to assume only your power stopped the NK.  It's also extremely cocky to think you were so amazing at using your power (wasted on N1, by the way) that you saved town, or that you were definitely the target.

There are many roles that stop kills...doctors, roleblockers, lightning rods, commuters, and hiders, to name a few without looking anything up.  Scum can no kill for a plethora of reasons, especially in RMM.  Maybe they are arsonists, or poisoners, or gain powers when they don't kill.

As far as I'm concerned, the hockey shield gives no one extra town or scum cred.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:33:39 pm
Wait, in your own freaking list, Lekkit and Mail-Mi are on opposite sides of your own shield.

vote: hockey
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:34:32 pm
And who was in each group?

Is listed above but: DeDe, me, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi. The rest in the other.

Here is the post in question, quoting Lekkit, even.

Let's see you explain your way out of this one.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:36:38 pm
Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.

Or did I?

Lekkit, are you referring to your action on awaclus with this or something else?

Sorry for my confusion, blame it on midsummer.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:38:00 pm
Unvote

Now I'm confused.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 19, 2015, 06:38:38 pm
I thought Lekkit targeted mail-mi.  They are on opposite sides of the alleged hockey shield.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 06:38:49 pm
This is why I have such trouble with RMM. I just want to read people's posts and figure out who's scum, not wade through a sea of bizarre claims.

hockey does your power make people untargetable to people outside their group or just unkillable?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 19, 2015, 06:41:27 pm
I targeted Awaclus. The result was that he was human. I think someone said Awaclus was inside the shield. I was confused about that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:45:29 pm
Lekkit himself said the hockey shield should have blocked his power.  That's what I was going off of.  If he wasn't going across the shield, obviously I retract that bit.

As for no night kill...it's very naive of you (or newbish, or scummy) to assume only your power stopped the NK.  It's also extremely cocky to think you were so amazing at using your power (wasted on N1, by the way) that you saved town, or that you were definitely the target.

There are many roles that stop kills...doctors, roleblockers, lightning rods, commuters, and hiders, to name a few without looking anything up.  Scum can no kill for a plethora of reasons, especially in RMM.  Maybe they are arsonists, or poisoners, or gain powers when they don't kill.

As far as I'm concerned, the hockey shield gives no one extra town or scum cred.

Heyhey! I'm not saying I'm amazing or anything, I'm definietly not. I have not seen Lekkits claim to do anything on Mail-mi. Sorry for that. Mind to point it out?

And for the strategic parts, give me some space will ya..? Claimed masons D1, as far as I could assume I could be the first target. Or some other shenanigan to kill me off quickly. Using the power N1 it could do something and maybe it did. Heck, this IS my first RMM, I know squad, Mkey?

It's extremely odd of you to vote for masons. and if I haven't seen you go hard on newbies before I would so OMGUS you right now. But you're Ashersky so I try to keep it cool.

PPE: Ah, good. Shame on you, Ashersky.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:47:43 pm
This is why I have such trouble with RMM. I just want to read people's posts and figure out who's scum, not wade through a sea of bizarre claims.

hockey does your power make people untargetable to people outside their group or just unkillable?

Untargetable.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 06:49:58 pm
Okay, so either:

-Lekkit is lying
-hockey is lying
-someone redirected Lekkit

Is that right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 06:50:18 pm
OR hockey's power was blocked somehow.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 06:51:36 pm
OR forget all that because I'm still catching up and no, Lekkit isn't claiming that he targetted across the shield
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 06:53:31 pm
So we go back to, is Awaclus lying about his flavor? I'm not sure what the scum narrative for that is, since human/demon isn't supposed to be indicative of alignment.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 19, 2015, 06:56:11 pm
Okay, so either:

-Lekkit is lying
-hockey is lying
-someone redirected Lekkit

Is that right?

No. He targeted Awaclus. That should be alright.

Awaclus is the main story for today indeed, not the shield-mechanic really. As Ashersky points out there could be several reasons why there was no NK, whatevs I suppose.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 07:06:21 pm
Okay, sorry if this is long/wordy. Going to do a recap of claims/etc so far.

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1)
3. chairs (claims Day action that gives two options to female target with Night action. Option 1 allows target to use Night action twice. Option 2 has not been claimed.)
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan (Claimed Mason / Modified JOAT - 1-shot "Separated Groups" power utilized, group list below)
10. Ghacob (Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager) (killed D1)
11. A Drowned Kernel (Claimed Angel, 1-shot Dayvig)
12. Awaclus (Claimed Lorne, Demon / Modified Neighborizer - determines Neighborhood invites during Day, appears to be optional to join. Neighbors cannot target each other.)
13. Lekkit (Claimed Demon w/Species Cop)
14. Delirious Deleuze (Claimed Mason w/hockey)
15. mail-mi (Claimed Cordelia, Human / Oracle - can ask questions of faust at Night.)

==HOCKEY GROUP LIST==
Group 1: Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ADK, IG, WW, Mail-Mi.
Group 2: e, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.

People in either group untargetable by other group.
==END GROUP LIST==

==AWACLUS NEIGHBORHOOD LIST N1==
No-target Neighbors: Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

People in Neighborhood unable to target each other.
==END NEIGHBORHOOD LIST N1==

==POWER USE CLAIMS==
Lekkit claims to have targeted Awaclus N1 and received result of Human. This target is valid, but the result does not match Awaclus's claim. This suggests either one of them is lying or that Lekkit was redirected.

chairs targeted mail-mi D1. Mail-mi confirmed being provided opportunity N1 to use chairs's power and opted to use his Night action twice.

ADK killed Ghacob D1.

mail-mi claimed N1 action of asking faust two questions
Q1: Are there any Town masons in game?
A1: Yes. (This suggests DeDe/Hockey are in fact Masons and basically ICs them).
Q2: Are there any Town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood (Awaclus's neighborhood)?
A2: No. (This would suggest scum!Awaclus but is complicated by the fact that Caritas might not be "created" by Awaclus and simply exist).


Again, sorry about the long post here. Have I missed any claims? Does this help clear things up for everyone?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 07:13:28 pm
this is great. thanks! I was already coming to terms with the prospect of having to do it myself.

(I also claimed a voting restriction)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 07:25:59 pm
this is great. thanks! I was already coming to terms with the prospect of having to do it myself.

(I also claimed a voting restriction)

Noted - you can only vote once/Day, right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 19, 2015, 07:29:29 pm
Unrelated, semi-v/la starting ~30 minutes from this post and ending ~48 hours from there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 08:31:18 pm
Since no one is claiming to have redirected Lekkits role, it either means scum redirected, Lekkit is lying, or Awalcus is lying.

1. Why would scum choose to redirect Lekkit? Especially when multiple other people claimed powers (I claimed watcher, mail-mi claimed). Why take the risk as scum? This doesn't seem probable, especially since they knew mail-mi had an extra power from chairs.
2. Why would Lekkit just lie: a) before mail-mi claimed his results b) on D2?!

You also forgot the claim that Awalcus is one shot unlynchable.

Also we know there are 4 scum. That means that we probably have a SK and a 3 person scum team or 2 two person scum teams. What would this mean for partners?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 08:34:12 pm
I forgot that Awaclus claim 1-shot lynchproof. Yeah, I want to lynch Awaclus.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 08:35:31 pm
I forgot that Awaclus claim 1-shot lynchproof. Yeah, I want to lynch Awaclus.

That's how I feel. I'd rather someone just kill him tho.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 08:37:39 pm
I would like to know people's opinions on lynching him before the action window endS
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 19, 2015, 08:38:58 pm
I like chairs a lot right now. I will not be lynching him ever, unless we get some kind of result on him.

I also think we definitely need to lynch outside hockey's group. I could go egork, but I still prefer awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 09:10:24 pm
Why do people want to lynch me? Because I'm playing exactly the way I always play as town and noticeably differently from the way I always play as scum, because my flavor claim is consistent (afaik, the only one that would make any sense) with my role which has been confirmed by multiple people, because lynching me gives scum a free night to do whatever they want while we're not lynching scum or even getting a flip, or perhaps because there's a reason to believe that all the "results" on me were false?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 09:19:43 pm
Also, I'll explain a couple of things in my karaoke bar if you accept the invitations.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 19, 2015, 09:35:10 pm
Noted - you can only vote once/Day, right?

not quite, but I'm not reveling how exactly it works - don't see what that'd be good for.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 09:44:29 pm
Also, I'll explain a couple of things in my karaoke bar if you accept the invitations.

I don't trust this and I don't trust you. You honestly have nothing going for you but the doubt of other people's evidence, which is much less than I'm willing to trust. You're only arguments are:

a) I'm just like my meta!
bad argument
b) Other people are wrong
still less substantiated and doesn't make sense on why they'd lie - see above
c) that's actually it.

I have a question for everyone invited into the neighborhood last night, how did you know that you couldn't target each other?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 09:50:46 pm
I feel like if awaclus was a survivor he would've claimed, but he's insisting on being town. I don't see town having lynch proof.

How did everyone know they couldn't be targeted in the neighborhood last night?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 09:52:27 pm
How did everyone know they couldn't be targeted in the neighborhood last night?

Faust told us.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 09:58:15 pm
Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

Vote: Lekkit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 19, 2015, 10:24:16 pm
Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

Vote: Lekkit.

What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 19, 2015, 10:38:45 pm
Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

Vote: Lekkit.

What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 19, 2015, 10:47:43 pm
Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

Vote: Lekkit.

What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.

That actually makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 19, 2015, 11:32:53 pm
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 19, 2015, 11:51:12 pm
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK

I think that Egor is town, but I don't trust this result because he was in a different group than ADK.

I still want to lynch Awaclus, and I believe Lekkit. I don't think for any reason scum lies today. But it doesn't look like it's happening so unvote
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 20, 2015, 12:02:31 am
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK

I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 20, 2015, 12:04:13 am
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK

I have reason to believe that you could have an accurate result on ADK and yet him be Angel. That doesn't mean he definitely is, and if his only power is a one shot vig he's at least a safe lynch that gives us a flip.

Open nvm I see adk responded and not with a claim to have become human.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 20, 2015, 05:21:15 am
Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

Vote: Lekkit.

What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.

I also said Awaclus was lying before mail-mi claimed. After asking about his flavour. Because I had a human result from him. Beacause I investigated him. Because I didn't trust him day 1. Does this really make sense if I was scum?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 20, 2015, 05:30:39 am
Vote Count 2.3

Awaclus (1): Lekkit
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
Lekkit (1): Delirious Deleuze
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, ashersky, mail-mi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 07:49:02 am
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 12:20:46 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
Sorry, Egork
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 20, 2015, 12:55:52 pm
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK

Without divulging much yet, how exactly does the power work? i.e. did you specifically get a "not a demon" investigative result, or is it more like you get a result (or something else happens) only if he is a demon and now you didn't get it? If it's the latter, I think it might be worth it to have mail-mi confirm it with his oracle ability before lynching ADK, otherwise I think I like lynching him today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 20, 2015, 01:14:15 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

Then why doesn't he wait until after I've claimed? He doesn't know what I'm going to say, so why put himself out there first as scum? Yes, there's a good chance that Lekkit is lying, but I don't think he is.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 02:08:59 pm
Chairs, why do you think Mail-Mi was a likely night kill target?  He had quite a bit of suspicion yesterday.

I don't buy the narrative for Lekkit making up his result.  Redirection or Awaclus fake claiming are the more likely scenarios.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 02:09:42 pm
Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

Vote: ADK

I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 20, 2015, 03:51:20 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 20, 2015, 03:58:09 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons

Non-targeted doesn't sound like the hockeypower would interfere with it.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 04:29:22 pm
I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 20, 2015, 04:31:14 pm
I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?
Yeah. This feels weird. It also sounds really similar to Lekkit's claimed power.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 20, 2015, 04:44:54 pm
I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

Just look at his earlier posts today. It'd make sense he'd want to figure the flavor out before claiming. I assume he also saw that I'm a demon, and then voted for me because he thought being a demon meant being scummy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 04:52:12 pm
I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

Just look at his earlier posts today. It'd make sense he'd want to figure the flavor out before claiming. I assume he also saw that I'm a demon, and then voted for me because he thought being a demon meant being scummy.

No. If he was town he would've claimed that lekkit was wrong or lying. This smells so fishy. I literally just ate sushi and I still smell this.

This does not seem right. He almost gets lynched and people start voting for him and he claims this, then explains it and doesn't at all mention you? This does not seem right.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 20, 2015, 04:56:09 pm
Oh right, for a while I forgot that WW deviated us from the EgorK lynch yesterday. That's a pretty good point against him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 20, 2015, 04:58:09 pm
And now WW's voting for ADK too. Could be bussing, though, but I'll go back to vote: WW anyway.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 05:07:37 pm
I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

Wasn't this the first thing he did today?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 05:10:09 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons

That sounds a little less than a smoking-gun.  Can you say what the condition that the demons satisfied was?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 05:38:48 pm
So...

We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 20, 2015, 06:14:54 pm

good point. yeah, I could totally see such a power. it's like the psychotrooper shot for investigative results.

if this power exists, it's probably one-shot though - so Egork could just check again next night?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:17:03 pm
So...

We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

There are also 4 scum, so, you know, they could both just be right, or we could have right/wrong or any combination.

Because if they're telling the truth and we had messed up results, that's four town, then me and hockey, that's six. It narrows it down, but I don't for sure believe this. Seems a stretch still
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 06:23:42 pm
So...

We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

Makes some sense, but does ADK's response to Egor read kind of odd to you?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 06:36:25 pm
My point isn't that we all of a sudden have a bunch of ICs.  But it's also unlikely that every so many investigative roles caught scum on N1.  That basically never happens.

Can someone explain why DD keeps going on about scum numbers and factions?  He seems to have way more setup knowledge than anyone else.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 06:37:47 pm
Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:38:19 pm
My point isn't that we all of a sudden have a bunch of ICs.  But it's also unlikely that every so many investigative roles caught scum on N1.  That basically never happens.

Can someone explain why DD keeps going on about scum numbers and factions?  He seems to have way more setup knowledge than anyone else.

Because someone posted that we have 4 scum (can't remember who) and so I've been trying to figure it out because everybody seems to be ignoring it?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:39:11 pm
Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:44:42 pm
Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

Here.

Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 06:45:05 pm
Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing

I know the mod didn't say it and it wasn't the claimed oracle either. 

Do you believe everything people say? 

You also mentioned more than once that there are multiple scum factions.  Again, where does your information come from?

Speculation is fine -- preface it as such.  You can't use speculation to make a point for/against a player, though.

"I speculate that masons are scum in this game.  Therefore, my case on DD is rock solid and proven."  That's nonsense, just like you basing anything on the speculation that there could be four scum of multiple factions.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 06:46:38 pm
Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

Here.

Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.

At least 4 not town-aligned does not equal "there are 4 scum" OR "there are multiple factions."

Thanks for pulling the quote though.

Other speculation has been on the existence of third party roles, such as a survivor.  That messes with your assumptions, too.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:51:38 pm
Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

Here.

Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.

At least 4 not town-aligned does not equal "there are 4 scum" OR "there are multiple factions."

Thanks for pulling the quote though.

Other speculation has been on the existence of third party roles, such as a survivor.  That messes with your assumptions, too.

Okay why don't you actually go reread my posts. Literally never have I said that there are multiple factions or that it means anyone is scum. I have literally been trying to discuss the possible configurations of scum. I, in fact, in the first post I speculate indicate a few different possibilities... Literally since then I've been trying to speculate because no one else does

Please, point to me one place where I definitely claim it is one way or the other AND more so, please point me to the post where I say that it means anyone is scum!
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 06:59:48 pm
Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing

I know the mod didn't say it and it wasn't the claimed oracle either. 

Do you believe everything people say? 

You also mentioned more than once that there are multiple scum factions.  Again, where does your information come from?

Speculation is fine -- preface it as such.  You can't use speculation to make a point for/against a player, though.

"I speculate that masons are scum in this game.  Therefore, my case on DD is rock solid and proven."  That's nonsense, just like you basing anything on the speculation that there could be four scum of multiple factions.

If you go look at my posts, it's pretty clear that it's speculation.


And actually, yes, it was our claimed oracle btw.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 20, 2015, 07:17:54 pm
I think the chances for DeDe and hockey to not be masons are very small. Two scum claiming masons is one thing, but mail-mi also confirmed that there are masons in this game with his oracle power, meaning that if it is a scum gambit, they put not just two but three players on line - and it doesn't even make mail-mi town, so as soon as we lynched him, the whole gambit is threatened again.

So yeah. Meh. Let's treat our masons as IC's, at least for a while longer. If the game goes further and we don't hit any scum, we can still reconsider.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 20, 2015, 07:40:11 pm
So...

We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

That's the most plausible explanation I can think of. Otherwise there was some very fortunate scum redirection (or very unfortunate town)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 20, 2015, 07:41:54 pm
DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 07:44:20 pm
DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

You also have a result on Awa?  Good to know.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 07:57:53 pm
DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

You got a result on Awaclus last night?  So you're countering Lekkit?

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 20, 2015, 08:12:56 pm
DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

You got a result on Awaclus last night?  So you're countering Lekkit?

This is my point, EgorK. If you knew Lekkit had a different result, why didn't you tell us? That was kind of pertinent info you only told us when I called you put
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 20, 2015, 09:18:32 pm
Well, now it's Lekkit vs. EgorK. They are claiming opposite results on the same player.

EgorK is matching Awaclus.  If egor is lying, then, both are?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 20, 2015, 09:35:33 pm
to me this sounds like scum!Egork messed up his claims
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 20, 2015, 09:36:30 pm
otherwise, why would he just mention it on the side as if it was nothing?

well I guess he could also be town!Egork messing up claims
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 20, 2015, 09:56:58 pm
Unvote

Why does scum!Egor lie here?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 21, 2015, 12:33:47 am
Why is scum anyone lying here?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 21, 2015, 12:46:13 am
Why is scum anyone lying here?

Right.  But, Egor's ability is not targetted, apparently, so it can't be redirected.  And it can't be a global flip because of conflicting results.  So Lekkit and Egor are telling the truth, then it has to be Lekkit was redirected and Awaclus is actually a demon.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 21, 2015, 12:47:01 am
Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 21, 2015, 03:31:28 am
Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?

I think it was a good try, but not conclusive.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 21, 2015, 03:32:40 am
Why is scum anyone lying here?

Right.  But, Egor's ability is not targetted, apparently, so it can't be redirected.  And it can't be a global flip because of conflicting results.  So Lekkit and Egor are telling the truth, then it has to be Lekkit was redirected and Awaclus is actually a demon.

Or one or both is lying.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 21, 2015, 04:18:37 am
Vote Count 2.4

Awaclus (1): Lekkit
EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
Lekkit (1): Delirious Deleuze
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, ashersky, mail-mi, Witherweaver

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 21, 2015, 05:27:22 am
Mostly replying to not be lurking all weekend. I don't really have much too say at the moment.

I still like my vote on EgorK, he's not terrible scummy but many factors adds up to him being a reasonable lynch to me.

The biggest one being his accusation on ADK, maybe his power could go through "the wall", but it's seems weird. Someone is lying here and to me it seems to be Egor.

Why scum!egor would lie here ain't my business to speculate in, scum needs to do a lot of risky things.. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 21, 2015, 12:29:38 pm
Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?

I think it was a good try, but not conclusive.

I agree, unfortunately. :(

Sorry I've been gone, I just got an internship where I get to dress up as an alien and shoot little children with fake guns, so that's taken up a lot of my time. I should be around later today.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 21, 2015, 01:33:16 pm
Someone asked why I thought mail mi would be a good target flue the night kill. By the way phone posing. I had claimed a day action that I felt could significantly benefit town and openly used it on him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 21, 2015, 01:45:42 pm
Someone asked why I thought mail mi would be a good target flue the night kill. By the way phone posing. I had claimed a day action that I felt could significantly benefit town and openly used it on him.

That was me.  Well, I guess hitting a Mason creates an IC, but we were basically treating them as ICs.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 21, 2015, 03:48:59 pm
Had very tiresome travel day. Posts do not make any sense to me now, which means I need a reread with clear head. I hope there are at least couple days before deadline (when it is, btw?)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 21, 2015, 04:13:17 pm
Lol, live game of mafia is going on in the same car of the suburban train :)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 21, 2015, 05:07:36 pm
Lol, live game of mafia is going on in the same car of the suburban train :)

Point out their scum tells
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 22, 2015, 06:17:11 am
Day action window closed, by the way.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 22, 2015, 11:58:23 am
way behind, have some rereading to do.  I don't get back home until Wednesday evening, and I hope to have a full reread by Thursday night
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 22, 2015, 06:05:46 pm
Are we all waiting on Egor?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 22, 2015, 06:08:03 pm
I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons


.... why specifically Rolestop?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 22, 2015, 10:02:53 pm
I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

I'm going over the claims for the day and working up a big post, but I think Awaclus scumslipped here.

I bolded, italicized, and grew the line I think is a scumslip.  Awaclus is talking about mail-mi's original Oracle question, which was whether there was a town role that could create Caritas.  Faust's answer was no, so mail-mi assumed Awaclus was scum.

Awaclus's response was that he didn't create the neighborhood, just invited people to it, so the result isn't a slamdunk.  And that's a fine argument...but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

I think that's him knowing that it was a scum power, and probably his.

Scumslip FTW.

vote: awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 22, 2015, 10:21:11 pm
Ok. I'm here. Still very busy  :(
I'm not sure about that scumslip. However, there is a lot of ancillary evidence pointing to Awaclus being scum.
How long til the deadline?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 22, 2015, 10:36:54 pm
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 22, 2015, 10:45:11 pm
I want to clarify something on targeting, based on claims.

Per hockey, the following two groups could only target within themselves:

DeDe, hockey, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi
2.7, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit

Per Caritas rules claimed by multiple people, these players could not target each other:

Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

Putting it together...

mail-mi could only target DD, hockey, ADK, and IG
WW could only target DD, hockey, ADK, and IG
Awaclus could only target 2.7, chairs, EgorK, ashersky, and Lekkit
Silverspawn could only target 2.7, hairs, EgorK, ashersky, and Lekkit

If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 22, 2015, 10:57:38 pm
A review of D2 claims (numbers are reply #):

#617 - Silverspawn asks if anyone roleblocked him, and if not, says ADK is lying.
#622 - DD says ADK, Ichi, WW, DD, mail-mi, and hockey were "protected."
#627 - chairs asks mcmcsalot what he thinks of his power.
#632 - DD claims he can protect however many people he wants at night.  Those protected cannot be targeted from outside of the group, but can target each other.
#635 - Silverspawn says #617 is now irrelevant due to DD's claim.
#638 - DD claims only a dayvig or roleblocker can stop his power.
#639 - WW counterclaims DD -- stating only that he thinks he's lying.
#643 - DD clarifies that he a Watcher during the day and protector at night.
#648 - Awaclus flavor claims Lorne.
#649 - DD clarifies now that his Protection power was 1-Shot.
#651 - DD now clarifies that #632 onward were lies, and that Hockey actually held that power.
#655 - chairs clarifies that his power only works on women and is a Day action.  It gives his target the option to perform their night action twice or (something else).
#656 - mail-mi claims that DD and Hockey are town and Awaclus is scum.
#671 - Lekkit counterclaims Awaclus, saying he learned Awaclus is human (Lorne is a demon.)
#672 - mail-mi claims to be Oracle.  States he did it twice, confirming chairs's #655.  He states the PM he got during the day was an invitation to the Caritas Neighborhood.  First Oracle question was if there were any masons in the game -- answer was yes.  States that Awaclus said he invited the rest of them to the Caritas Neighborhood.  Second Oracle question is if a town power exists to create the Caritas Neighborhood -- answer was no.
#674 - WW claims to be in the Caritas Neighborhood, confirms mail-mi claimed Oracle in it.
#676 - Awaclus counterclaims Lekkit and counterclaims mail-mi technically he invited people to Caritas but did not create it.
#684 - Awaclus claims 1-Shot Lynchproof.
#692 - mail-mi claims to have asked how many scum there were and was told there are at least four players who are not aligned with town.
#694 - hockey claims that DD's claims are true about him.  First time he uses the word "shield."
#703 - mail-mi claims to have sent ADK a message with part of his role.
#704 - Awaclus claims that people in the Caritas Neighborhood cannot target each other.  SCUMSLIP post.
#708 - Awaclus claims that Caritas held Awaclus, mail-mi, WW, and SS.
#710 - mail-mi confirms no one in Caritas could target each other.
#717 - Awaclus gives something to SS.
#749 - Awaclus claims the item can be used, but only under certain conditions.
#772 - mail-mi clarifies he can only ask about the setup, not players.
#793 - SS claims he received the item from Awaclus and it is "very, very good."
#816 - Lekkit flavor claims to be a demon.
#819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
#829 - hockey clarifies further his shield power.  Claims now that his power split the game into two groups of players and that players in each group could ONLY target within the same group.
#833 - hockey clarifies that DeDe, hockey, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi were in one group, and could ONLY target each other.  The other group was 2.7, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.
#853 - Lekkit clarifies his claim that he targeted Awaclus and received the result: human.
#855 - hockey clarifies that the sheild makes the groups "untargetable" by the other.
#862 - SS reminds everyone that he claimed a voting restriction.
#875 - Awaclus clarifies that the non-targeting in Caritas was mod-confirmed.
#880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.
#883 - chairs claims there is a way for EgorK to get "not a demon" on ADK while he is still Angel.
#893 - EgorK clarifies his claim, saying it is "non-targeted" and therefore not countering the hockey sheild claim.  He claims that he is told the names of all players who are demons fulfilling some conditions.
#918 - EgorK claims he got a demon result on Awaclus.
#945 - DD claims to have been invited to Caritas by Awaclus today, on D2.

And that's all of it, in order.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 22, 2015, 11:17:22 pm
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.

But awaclus might have messed that up? I got an invite too, and accepted, because I don't target anyone at night.

Back to vote: awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 23, 2015, 12:00:06 am
The biggest counterclaim issue here is:

Awaclus claims Lorne (demon).
Lekkit claims Awaclus is human.
EgorK claims Awaclus is demon.

So, well, Lekkit is the liar.  Except, man Awaclus is super scummy and seems to be caught in all sorts of lies.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 23, 2015, 12:53:52 am
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


Nope, my power sees who targets someone.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 23, 2015, 12:54:31 am
But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 23, 2015, 01:07:37 am
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


Nope, my power sees who targets someone.

Drunk AMA DeDe? That's exactly what I was saying.

But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

Also, huh?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 23, 2015, 01:15:33 am
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


Nope, my power sees who targets someone.

Drunk AMA DeDe? That's exactly what I was saying.

But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

Also, huh?

You're not wrong. AMA.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 23, 2015, 01:16:43 am
Otherwise, I think I'm beginning to think I was initially right in thinking awaclus is scum. Egor adds to this a bit, but overall I would rather lynch their today and suss out EgorK at the same time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 23, 2015, 03:08:25 am
Reading up.

Ok, so we are going for Awaclus again? To me, both Awaclus and Egor are possible lynches so I don't really mind. I think Awaclus is survivor or something similar, though, so I prefer Egor.

A bunch of people is not voting yet. Concrete action would be nice now, we have talked enough for today, it seems. At least I have not much more to say.

More votes plox.

 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 23, 2015, 03:29:38 am
Vote Count 2.5

Awaclus (3): Lekkit, ashersky, mail-mi
EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
mail-mi (1): Delirious Deleuze

Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 23, 2015, 07:12:19 am
but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

Indeed, because I can't create the neighborhood.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 07:13:23 am
I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

you can change your decision until the end of the day

PPE everything after this post
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 07:27:53 am
the list is nice

I disagree with Awaclus' scumslipping though. In fact, I strongly feel that he's town.

I think Egork might have scumslipped. He just mentioned to have a demon result on Awaclus as if it's nothing, and then never talked about it again. That sounds like scum messing up claims to me.

also this
Quote
#880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

I can also confirm this:
Quote
#819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
not that this is particularly relevant, but it is definitely a day power.

Quote
If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
well, I did, but I already said that my result is negated by all the protection stuff flying around.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 07:29:37 am
does Egork really claim to have a strongman flavor investigative role? or does his role work during the day?

I'd like to hear a fullclaim from him.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 23, 2015, 08:02:26 am
does Egork really claim to have a strongman flavor investigative role? or does his role work during the day?

I'd like to hear a fullclaim from him.

I had not claimed strongman, I just suspected by the wording of my power that it cannot be affected by protections (as it is not targeted) and faust confirmed that it cannot be rolestoped (I still can be roleblocked though)

I had not said anything on the Awa vs Lekkit counterclaims because I was distracted by ADK and my whole new knowledge that demon is not inherently antitown. I started my day attacking Awaclus because I thought he, as demon, would be scum.

I do not see any reason for anyone but survivor or scum to have lynch-proof. Awaclus insists he is not survivor, I do not get this at all. I am confused by Awaclus play so far.

Both Awaclus and ADK is scummiest to me ATM
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 23, 2015, 08:33:51 am
Silver -- are you saying you target across the hockey shield last night?

If so, that counters the "masons" claim.

DD/hockey/mail-Mi scum team?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 23, 2015, 08:35:37 am
the list is nice

I disagree with Awaclus' scumslipping though. In fact, I strongly feel that he's town.

I think Egork might have scumslipped. He just mentioned to have a demon result on Awaclus as if it's nothing, and then never talked about it again. That sounds like scum messing up claims to me.

also this
Quote
#880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

I can also confirm this:
Quote
#819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
not that this is particularly relevant, but it is definitely a day power.

Quote
If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
well, I did, but I already said that my result is negated by all the protection stuff flying around.

You aren't being consistent.  If you think Awaclus is town, you should also think the same of EgorK.  Their claims match and point at Lekkit as the liar.

While I agree Egor has done the worst job of claiming, I generally think highly polished claims are more likely to be fake.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 23, 2015, 08:38:02 am
but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

Indeed, because I can't create the neighborhood.

But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

That's the scum slip.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 08:39:23 am
Silver -- are you saying you target across the hockey shield last night?

If so, that counters the "masons" claim.
what? no, it doesn't. I never said my action was successful.

To clear this up, it was not. The problem is, there are several reasons why that could have been the case - one is that he was untargetable, which I assumed is the case.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 08:40:03 am

I think the idea is that the mod created the neighborhood.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 23, 2015, 08:40:48 am
But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

That's the scum slip.

No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 23, 2015, 08:52:46 am
But look at Egor's opening post today.. he votes Awaclus for "feeling" type reasons, and strangely prompts Lekkit to as well.

I'll pull up the quote later. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 23, 2015, 09:16:39 am
But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

That's the scum slip.

No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 23, 2015, 09:38:05 am
Egor's first posts today:

I thought a little bit, read some and think much better of Vote: Awaclus for now. He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.
Lekkit, I think you wanted to do it too?

PPE: 2

Oh, I hope I was right about ADK.


One, this is evidence that he really did have a result on Awaclus.  Two, why does he bring up Lekkit?  I think Lekkit did suspect Awaclus yesterday, but this is still an odd coincidence since Lekkit hadn't claimed yet, and does claim with a result on Awaclus later.

Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 23, 2015, 09:52:27 am
Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 09:52:43 am
But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

That's the scum slip.

No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

mail-mi said he would ask faust for confirmation on this semantic thing, and he hasn't since answered. if it was as clear as you think it is, don't you think faust would have confirmed?

@mail-mi: did you get an answer?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 23, 2015, 09:55:05 am
Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now

Still, why did you bring Lekkit up in your first post?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 23, 2015, 10:02:26 am
Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now

Still, why did you bring Lekkit up in your first post?

Mainly because he was most adamant critic of Awaclus D1. Would he back off I would consider that scummy
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 23, 2015, 10:04:17 am
EgorK, was your investigation global?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 23, 2015, 10:11:29 am
EgorK, was your investigation global?

I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 23, 2015, 10:12:13 am
EgorK, was your investigation global?

I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

How was the subset chosen? Are you certain ADK and Awaclus were in that specified subset?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 23, 2015, 10:37:26 am
EgorK, was your investigation global?

I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

How was the subset chosen? Are you certain ADK and Awaclus were in that specified subset?

Yes, I know this subset and ADK and Awaclus were in it. And I do not want to elaborate this further for now
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 23, 2015, 10:49:00 am
That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

My role is not "Neighborizer", it's "Karaoke bar host". A neighborizer targets people and they all end up in the QT. I target people, they must voluntarily accept the invitation, and then the QT is created for me and everyone who accepted, and the QT has other mechanics besides just being able to talk.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 23, 2015, 10:50:09 am
Even if I didn't invite anyone, the QT would still be created for just me and those mechanics would then apply to just me (i.e. I couldn't target myself).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 23, 2015, 11:08:02 am
Even if I didn't invite anyone, the QT would still be created for just me and those mechanics would then apply to just me (i.e. I couldn't target myself).
yeah that does sound plausible. I'm not sure whether or not faust would actually answer the question 'is there a town who can create the ..." with 'no' though.  it's also possible that he would say 'no but there's a town who can invite people'. both seem like legit decisions.

basically, this is a non-trivial syntax issue with high significance for the game. and if faust doesn't clear it up, all we can do is speculate.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 23, 2015, 01:24:15 pm
But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

That's the scum slip.

No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

mail-mi said he would ask faust for confirmation on this semantic thing, and he hasn't since answered. if it was as clear as you think it is, don't you think faust would have confirmed?

@mail-mi: did you get an answer?

I thought I said before, but yup I got an answer of "I can't tell you."

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 23, 2015, 01:24:35 pm
But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

So um DeDe now that you're sober, want to vote Awaclus now?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 23, 2015, 01:28:04 pm
I don't think Mail-Mi is scum.  Egor I'm really not sure on, along with everyone involved in the Awaclus, ADK, Lekkit thing.  I still think ADK's response to Egor's claim was a scummy. Kind of... forced calmness?  Like not trying to overreact to getting caught. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 23, 2015, 01:35:59 pm
But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

So um DeDe now that you're sober, want to vote Awaclus now?

Thanks, and no. I stand by thinking he's town. I think EgorK is scum, and at best if we lynch him we get info on Lekkit and Awaclus.

Vote: EgorK.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 23, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
I'd vote egork except I'm already there.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 24, 2015, 03:58:13 am
Vote Count 2.6

Awaclus (3): Lekkit, ashersky, mail-mi
EgorK (3): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 24, 2015, 05:18:48 am
EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

Vote: EgorK
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 24, 2015, 06:41:09 am
I think Lekkit and EgorK should both flavor claim, given they are the ones at odds here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 07:42:59 am
I'm starting to think some kind of Egor/Lekkit team.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 24, 2015, 08:03:59 am
I think Lekkit and EgorK should both flavor claim, given they are the ones at odds here.

I'm Spike.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 24, 2015, 08:54:17 am
EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

Vote: EgorK

How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 24, 2015, 08:57:01 am
I am Tara Maclay
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 09:02:35 am
I'm reasonably certain Tara Maclay is dead at this juncture - I can't be certain, but I suspect we're past season 6.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 24, 2015, 09:24:49 am
I'm reasonably certain Tara Maclay is dead at this juncture - I can't be certain, but I suspect we're past season 6.

According to setup post it is Buffy season 6, not past it. Though I know nothing more about setup
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 24, 2015, 10:02:39 am
so, what are Spike and Tara? humans, vampires, demons, ponies?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 24, 2015, 10:07:34 am
so, what are Spike and Tara? humans, vampires, demons, ponies?

I wanted to be pony, but got myself measly human.

Lekkit said he is demon
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 10:10:54 am
Spike was a vampire with bleached blonde hair.  He was kind of an antihero.  A bad guy but Buffy had a thing for him, and sometimes he did some goodish things. 

Well, I'm basing this off of his appearances in Angel.  I never watched Buffy.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 24, 2015, 10:14:00 am
EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

Vote: EgorK

How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

Spike sure is a vampire. He was the antagonist of season 2 of Buffy, but made some reappearances. In season 4, he got chipped by some kind of military branch, making him feel immense pain whenever he attacks a human. He then falls for Buffy and reluctantly help the gang out throughout the series. At one point he gets his soul back and is tormented by that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: EgorK on June 24, 2015, 10:19:44 am
EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

Vote: EgorK

How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

I answered right there, I am not sure what you want to say:

EgorK, was your investigation global?

I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 10:25:59 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 10:42:25 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

Wait, Willow was a lesbian?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 10:42:53 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 11:06:24 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

Wait, Willow was a lesbian?

Well, she has a boyfriend at one point, so it's probably more complex than that.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 11:07:10 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?

Makes me more confident that one of them is scum. I'm still betting on Egork.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 11:10:11 am
Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?

Makes me more confident that one of them is scum. I'm still betting on Egork.

Does it seem kind of artificial?  Like, they only started suspecting each other once someone pointed out that hey, they should be doing that.  All of the sudden scum reads pop up.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 11:18:10 am
...that's a good point.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 24, 2015, 12:28:38 pm
EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

Vote: EgorK

How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

I answered right there, I am not sure what you want to say:

EgorK, was your investigation global?

I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

The way I interpreted it was that you got all players grouped together in smaller groups, each group had a demon.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 12:49:41 pm
I thought he meant he could get an answer to something like "How many demon players satisfy condition X."
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 24, 2015, 01:05:25 pm
Their intetaction seems awful scummy and forced, I agree with WW.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 01:10:34 pm
Vote: EgorK

is L-2.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 24, 2015, 01:17:40 pm
Vote Count 2.7

Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
EgorK (5): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Witherweaver
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 24, 2015, 01:24:04 pm
The case is fine and the lynch would be informative.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 24, 2015, 01:24:22 pm
Vote: EgorK, this is L-1
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 24, 2015, 02:42:43 pm
On phone for a minute. Should I hammer?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 24, 2015, 02:46:15 pm
On phone for a minute. Should I hammer?

I guess claiming isn't as necessary in RMM, but Egor still had a fullclaim to do, right? Last word-ish maybe should be in place?

Or what is praxis here..? 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 24, 2015, 03:48:13 pm
Definitely give him a last word. If he's actually town, before the hammer he can give thoughts on what it means when he flips. If he flips and is scum we can ignore it, but if he's town then we have a last word/perspective to read into.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 24, 2015, 04:24:27 pm
Egor? Eh, I still want awaclus. But Egor's lynch will definitely be informative, so I'm for it.

I'll hammer if IG hasn't after Egor says stuff.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 24, 2015, 04:31:56 pm
I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

I'd prefer not to lynch her.

We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 24, 2015, 04:38:17 pm
I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

I'd prefer not to lynch her.

We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.

Through the lynch of Awa, we can only confirm that I'm 1-shot lynchproof.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Delirious Deleuze on June 24, 2015, 04:38:42 pm
I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

I'd prefer not to lynch her.

We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.

Why do you not prefer that lynch? Also how can we "easily" confirm role via results?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 24, 2015, 04:42:25 pm
I think Egork is a good lynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 04:47:18 pm
My biggest concern with Awaclus is that 1-shot lynchproof is generally provided to anti-Town roles (e.g. Survivor).
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 24, 2015, 04:48:21 pm
That said I would generally prefer an Egork lynch, or possibly somebody that hasn't gotten any attention at all (but I'm not sure anybody qualifies on that front).

SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 24, 2015, 04:59:08 pm
That said I would generally prefer an Egork lynch, or possibly somebody that hasn't gotten any attention at all (but I'm not sure anybody qualifies on that front).

SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?

I think Egor is the only one who has voted for Lekkit
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 24, 2015, 05:03:48 pm
SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?

sure

#51: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
#54: Witherweaver votes silverspawn (L-6)
#57: mail-mi votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
#62: ashersky votes Delirious Deleuze (L-6)
#65: Awaclus votes Ichimaru Gin (L-6)
#66: mail-mi votes ashersky (L-6)
#69: Hydrad votes mail-mi (L-6)
#84: Witherweaver votes silverspawn (L-6)
#94: e votes Delirious Deleuze (L-5)
#102: hockeysemlan votes mail-mi (L-5)
#106: hockeysemlan unvotes
#126: Delirious Deleuze votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
#145: ashersky unvotes
#218: chairs votes Delirious Deleuze (L-5)
#222: Ichimaru Gin votes Delirious Deleuze (L-4)
#244: hockeysemlan votes Ghacob (L-6)
#266: Ichimaru Gin votes Egork (L-6)
#301: ashersky votes hockeysemlan (L-5)
#316: mail-mi unvotes
#326: e unvotes
#329: Delirious Deleuze unvotes
#370: Delirious Deleuze votes Awaclus (L-6)
#373: hockeysemlan votes Awaclus (L-5)
#398: Lekkit votes Awaclus (L-4)
#417: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-6)
#422: chairs votes ashersky (L-6)
#431: hockeysemlan votes ashersky (L-5)
#432: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-4)
#446: Delirious Deleuze votes mail-mi (L-5)
#455: e votes A Drowned Kernel (L-5)
#457: Hydrad votes Egork (L-5)
#459: silverspawn votes Egork (L-4)
#490: ashersky votes Witherweaver (L-6)
#491: hockeysemlan votes mail-mi (L-5)
#494: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-5)
#498: Witherweaver votes Hydrad (L-6)
#500: mail-mi votes Egork (L-3)
#517: chairs votes Egork (L-2)
#529: Hydrad votes Witherweaver (L-4)
#553: A Drowned Kernel votes Hydrad (L-5)
#554: e votes Hydrad (L-4)
#556: Egork votes Hydrad (L-3)
#573: Lekkit votes Hydrad (L-2)
#578: Awaclus votes Hydrad (L-1)
#581: e votes Egork (L-2)
#595: Delirious Deleuze votes Hydrad (L-1)
new Day
#619: Egork votes Awaclus (L-6)
#656: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-5)
#657: Lekkit votes Awaclus (L-4)
#661: chairs votes Awaclus (L-3)
#662: chairs unvotes
#694: hockeysemlan votes Awaclus (L-3)
#699: Delirious Deleuze unvotes
#748: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
#751: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
#756: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-6)
#795: chairs votes Ichimaru Gin (L-6)
#843: hockeysemlan votes Egork (L-6)
#845: chairs votes Egork (L-5)
#847: ashersky votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
#850: ashersky unvotes
#876: Delirious Deleuze votes Lekkit (L-6)
#880: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-6)
#881: mail-mi unvotes
#892: Witherweaver votes A Drowned Kernel (L-5)
#894: Awaclus votes A Drowned Kernel (L-4)
#900: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-6)
#925: Witherweaver unvotes
#943: ashersky votes Awaclus (L-5)
#948: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-4)
#951: Delirious Deleuze votes mail-mi (L-6)
#985: Delirious Deleuze votes Egork (L-4)
#988: Lekkit votes Egork (L-3)
#1011: Witherweaver votes Egork (L-2)
#1014: Awaclus votes Egork (L-1)
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 12:01:06 am
I am back from V/LA.  Don't have time to reread everything tonight.  Will definitely have input tomorrow. 
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 25, 2015, 03:53:35 am
Vote Count 2.8

Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Witherweaver, Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 25, 2015, 08:43:15 am
Still think EgorK is the wrong choice here.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 25, 2015, 09:12:12 am
Because he claimed a character that's in the setup?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 09:31:57 am
Because he claimed a character that's in the setup?

You mean you didn't?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 09:32:15 am
Still think EgorK is the wrong choice here.

Who is the right choice?  Awaclus?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Lekkit on June 25, 2015, 09:38:43 am
I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

I'd prefer not to lynch her.

We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 09:40:16 am
Oh, I missed that.  But, I would bet money that Spike is in the game just from flavor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 09:42:07 am
Also, is it actually true that lynching Awaclus would confirm anything?  And if he is one-shot lynchproof as he claims, we'd have to do it twice.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 25, 2015, 10:04:42 am
I'd actively fight against an Awaclus lynch. He is town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 10:06:52 am
So what does lynching Egor give?

If Egor is town and understanding his role correctly, then his result on ADK should definitely be true and ADK is scum.  Awaclus if confirmed as a demon, but that doesn't say anything towards his alignment.  Lekkit is either lying or some kind of redirection happened.

If Egor is scum, well I don't think that actually confirms anything. 

If we lynch Lekkit, well, I don't think we get info either way.  We would know he was telling the truth about his Awaclus result, but he still could have gotten redirected. 

PPE
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 10:07:49 am
If we lynch ADK and he's scum, then Egor looks good.  If ADK is town, then Egor has to be lying based on how he said his power works.

I actually think ADK may be better in terms of conclusive info.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 12:15:51 pm
That... makes sense.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 12:24:07 pm
vote: ADK
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 25, 2015, 12:31:00 pm
it does make sense. mh.

not sure how comfortable I am with you single handedly preventing the lynch though...
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 25, 2015, 02:13:40 pm
If we lynch ADK and he's scum, then Egor looks good.  If ADK is town, then Egor has to be lying based on how he said his power works.

I actually think ADK may be better in terms of conclusive info.

But your posts are basically saying that both Egor and ADK-lynch is giving us results on the other. Why change? Egors claim is scummier to me and besides I don't like the idea of him being saved another time.

But oh well, I understand your reasoning. ADK isn't the towniest player in my book anyway..
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 02:28:15 pm
My thought was that scum!ADK => town!Egor (probably), but scum!Egor => ...

actually, I don't remember my reasoning here.  Okay, I think I was thinking that if Egor were scum, we wouldn't be able to conclude whether what he was saying was a lie or not.  But if he were scum he probably wouldn't be claiming his partners were lying, so that would make ADK and Awaclus more likely town.  So maybe the info is about as good.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 02:29:35 pm
Actually the Egor lynch may be more informative because the ties with Lekkit, Awaclus, and ADK.  The ADK lynch mainly has implications only for Egor.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 02:37:11 pm
I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 25, 2015, 02:41:10 pm
I'm so, so far behind here. I'm still wondering why scum!EgorK would lie about his power; it's more plausible to me that his result was tampered with somehow. An Awaclus or Lekkit lynch feels better to me than lynching Egor.

I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.

I'm almost always bad at keeping up with RMM. Claims start coming out and there's weird flavor stuff I just kind of lose track of what's going on. I'll try to catch up in a meaningful way before deadline.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 02:42:53 pm
I'm so, so far behind here. I'm still wondering why scum!EgorK would lie about his power; it's more plausible to me that his result was tampered with somehow. An Awaclus or Lekkit lynch feels better to me than lynching Egor.

I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.

I'm almost always bad at keeping up with RMM. Claims start coming out and there's weird flavor stuff I just kind of lose track of what's going on. I'll try to catch up in a meaningful way before deadline.

But Egor is basically claiming his power as untamperable.  That's why his lynch is more informative; he flips town his results still hold, but if Lekkit flips town we have to ask if there was redirection.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 25, 2015, 02:44:30 pm
"Can't be rolestopped", while slightly implausibly powerful, is different from "can't be tampered with"
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 25, 2015, 02:47:47 pm
"Can't be rolestopped", while slightly implausibly powerful, is different from "can't be tampered with"

He's saying (I think) that he doesn't target the people about whom he gets results.  So that cuts out all tampering that effects targets.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on June 25, 2015, 03:14:39 pm
On phone. I will try to catch up tonight. Deadline is the 27th iirc?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 25, 2015, 05:42:47 pm
I think psychotrooper effects, universal or otherwise, would still affect Egor's power.

If Awa is lynch proof, that's more reason to lynch him.  The argument appears to be that he's maybe a survivor or other third party.  I hope you all have learned that you can't leave survivors alive...they are bad for town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 25, 2015, 05:44:14 pm
If Awa is lynch proof, that's more reason to lynch him.  The argument appears to be that he's maybe a survivor or other third party.

The argument is that he's town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 06:39:30 pm
I'm warming up to an Awaclus lynch.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on June 25, 2015, 06:48:36 pm
Yeah, I don't like a lynchproof claim, that's too dangerous to leave alone.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 25, 2015, 07:16:21 pm
I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 07:19:34 pm
mrgh. I'm going to be semi-v/la again this weekend (and every weekend for the foreseeable future) so I'd like to lynch somebody before then.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 25, 2015, 07:20:54 pm
What's wrong with the lynchproof claim?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 07:32:22 pm
rereading
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 25, 2015, 08:01:06 pm
I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.

Based on?  The item giving?

Man, anyone would do that for cred.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 08:02:45 pm
You haven't claimed item powers right?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 25, 2015, 08:03:49 pm
I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.

Based on?  The item giving?

Man, anyone would do that for cred.

yes. it just doesn't make sense for scum to do that.

I also didn't find him scummy before that though.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: silverspawn on June 25, 2015, 08:45:37 pm
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:29:32 pm
One thing that I thought about as I was rereading and considering no NK was the possibility of time travel.  Just because we didn't have a kill N1 doesn't mean the order hasn't been put in.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:30:27 pm
which throws a wrench into the whole "groups can't target each other" thing because...well...does it only count for that night?
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:32:50 pm
Also, it seems like we have a lot of trigger-happy 1-shot abilities that happened.  And by "a lot" I mean Hockey's (or DeDe's?) 1-shot group shield thing
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:35:25 pm
[night action resolution]

1. Time Travel
2. Copy
3. Hide
4. Bus
5. Block
6. Redirect
7. Protect
8. Item-related actions
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:36:05 pm
So the whole claim that this neighborhood creates one invincible barrier...?  I am not sure that is 100% true
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:43:37 pm
As far as the Lekkit/EgorK/Awaclus thing.  It smells funny.  I don't know if there was some sort of universal redirection, targeted redirection, someone is lying, or whatever, but it doesnt feel right.

Right now, I am leaning toward lynching Awaclus. 

Also, can we get a confirmation that Awaclus' gift actually happened?  I don't remember seeing confirmation.  I don't care what the gift was at this point, just want to confirm that it actually happened
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 25, 2015, 11:47:36 pm
silverspawn claims it did.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on June 25, 2015, 11:51:27 pm
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 25, 2015, 11:58:17 pm
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Witherweaver on June 26, 2015, 12:11:51 am
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

Vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 26, 2015, 12:16:19 am
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

Vote: Awaclus

Why? With my flavor claim, there's basically no way I can be mafia or SK, and even if I was a survivor, it'd still be a bad idea for town to lynch me.

Oh right, because you're not town so spending a day getting nobody lynched is actually pretty good for you.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 26, 2015, 12:18:48 am
vote: awaclus

What? I'm already voting for him? Well I really really want to lynch awaclus. The results are all against him and I don't like his play at all. Also other reasons of which I cannot speak because rules.

Can we just lynch awaclus already kthxbye
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 26, 2015, 12:20:28 am
The results are all against him

What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: mail-mi on June 26, 2015, 12:42:09 am
The results are all against him

What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
I don't know flavor, but just because you're Lourne doesn't mean you're town. And Lourne could be a fake claim. And the Oracle counts at least a little bit for something.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: chairs on June 26, 2015, 12:54:25 am
vote: awaclus
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 26, 2015, 01:10:10 am
The results are all against him

What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
I don't know flavor, but just because you're Lourne doesn't mean you're town. And Lourne could be a fake claim. And the Oracle counts at least a little bit for something.

I don't know flavor either, but it does pretty obviously mean that I'm not scum. And it can't be a fake claim because AFAIK, no other character could possibly have my ability. And the oracle doesn't count because you asked the wrong question.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 26, 2015, 01:37:18 am
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

This.  Survivors are always bad for town.  Town always convinces themselves (with the Survivor's help, and probably scum's help) that "no, this time it'll work out fine" and then it doesn't.  Ever.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: ashersky on June 26, 2015, 01:38:01 am
I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

Might as well just full claim survivor at this point.  Dancing around it like this isn't fooling anyone.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: faust on June 26, 2015, 01:41:06 am
Vote Count 2.9

Awaclus (4): ashersky, mail-mi, Witherweaver, chairs
EgorK (4): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time. That's in ~32 hours.
Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: hockeysemlan on June 26, 2015, 02:21:54 am
Awaclus, huh.

Isn't it too easy? I can't get why scum!awaclus would play like this, and the info we got from this day don't lead me to a conclusion that he is the best lynch either. If he's telling the truth it would be re-e-eally bad to try to lynch him too. I don't like it, frankly, and I found it a bit odd that some of you can be so confident this is the right choice.

Then again, I guess it would somewhat be worth a shot, his play is not very understandable as town either. Go ahead if you must, but I'll stay on Egor for this one.. 

Title: Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
Post by: Awaclus on June 26, 2015, 02:35:20 am
This.  Survivors are always bad for town.  Town always convinces themselves (with the Survivor's help, and probably scum's help) that "no, this time it'll work out fine" and then it doesn't.  Ever.