Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion: Adventures Previews => Topic started by: Donald X. on April 02, 2015, 10:01:30 am
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Adventures has 30 Kingdom cards. It also has 20 Events. It's high time we looked at some of those. Man, they're sideways.
(https://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/adventurespreview4.png?w=640&h=326)
An Event is something you can buy in your Buy phase that isn't a card. You pay your $, you use up a Buy, and something happens. They don't take up Kingdom card slots; you shuffle them into your randomizer deck, but when you deal out cards, keep going until you have 10 Kingdom cards. I recommend stopping at two Events, but it's up to you.
Expedition is an example of a very simple Event. You get two more cards in your next hand. Maybe you'd rather have Silver; it's hard to say, man I don't even know you. Sometimes though I bet you'll want the cards. So, to be clear here: with Expedition in the game, you can, in your Buy phase, pay $3 and use up a Buy, to make that thing happen, the extra 2 cards for your next hand. If you had $6 and 2 Buys, you could go on two Expeditions, and have 4 extra cards in your next hand. Or buy a Silver and one Expedition. And so on. Expedition itself just sits on the table with the kingdom cards, reminding you that you can do this this game.
Trade, still somewhat simple, has you turning one or two cards into Silvers. It costs $5, but well, trashing two cards and getting two Silvers, maybe that's worth it. It only trashes from your hand, so you won't be doing much Trading turn one.
Finally we have Mission, a trickier one. You get an extra turn, but, this seems like some kind of joke, you can't buy cards on that turn. What good is it then? Well. There are things you can do. You can gain cards without buying them, such as with Remodels and Workshops. You can play Duration cards, setting them up for your next turn. You can get Reserve cards onto your mat. You can play Attacks, it can be that kind of Mission. You can trash cards; you can just be getting through your deck to get back to your good cards; you can turn that Hero into a Champion. And hey you can buy other Events, that's not buying a card. That may seem weird - what do we call that rectangular object then - but you didn't buy a card, you bought an Event, a thing that happened once and didn't come with a card, and so that doesn't trigger Swamp Hag and it's not cheaper due to Bridge and so on. Event cards give you something to buy; that thing is not a card. There will be a rulebook and it will say stuff just like this.
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just wow
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I love the borders on the Events. First time seeing this version. Looks so cool.
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I'm really glad that everyone on the board has the same event cards for each game. Definitely a lot better than the things that were speculated around here
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
It seems you can not
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
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I'm interested in the "cards" vs "events" distinction. It's the first time we've seen something in Dominion not respond to "cards".
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So you're saying there are 20 of these events? Wow.
Mission is a decent way to get around Haunted Woods if you have $4 to spare.
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
Yeah, I thought not. So prohibition overrules permission?
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
Yeah, I thought not. So prohibition overrules permission?
Always.
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
Yeah, I thought not. So prohibition overrules permission?
Always.
All else is madness.
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
Yeah, I thought not. So prohibition overrules permission?
Always.
In MTG; there's an explicit rule stating this. In Dominion, for the most part it hasn't been a real conflict, because there hasn't been a lot of things saying that you "can't" do things. The only one I can think of is Contraband, and that's never been paired with something else that says "you may buy this card".
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"Next hand" means what you draw during your Cleanup phase?
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So, with mission, I could still activate another event on my second turn?
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Well now I definitely don't know how to play this game. I'm glad it will have a rule book with some words about things.
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So, with mission, I could still activate another event on my second turn?
Sure. Knock yourself out.
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Also, when you buy an Event card, does it physically move or anything? Like a mat? Or does it just stay there and you do what it says. Is there only one of each Event?
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Can you buy cards from the Black Market while on a Mission?
No. You can't buy cards, even in the action phase.
Yeah, I thought not. So prohibition overrules permission?
Always.
Unless the prohibition is in the rulebook and the permission is on a card.
I find the wording of Expedition a bit weird. Is "your next hand" a well-defined term? Obviously we intuitively know what it means, but I'd expect it to say, "during your (next?) clean-up phase". Is there anything we know of that would cause the two to mean different things? As worded, it kind of sounds to me like you draw them immediately and then add them to your next hand when you draw it, which I assume is not what happens?
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Also, when you buy an Event card, does it physically move or anything? Like a mat? Or does it just stay there and you do what it says. Is there only one of each Event?
There's just one card for each Event, they just sit wherever you put them and don't move.
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Also, when you buy an Event card, does it physically move or anything? Like a mat? Or does it just stay there and you do what it says. Is there only one of each Event?
The "card" is just a reminder that the event is available that game. The event itself is an abstract thing you buy and do; there's an unlimited number of them.
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Since 2 seems to be more of a suggested max than an actual rule, then there are 1,048,576 ways to have events in the game.
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In MTG; there's an explicit rule stating this. In Dominion, for the most part it hasn't been a real conflict, because there hasn't been a lot of things saying that you "can't" do things. The only one I can think of is Contraband, and that's never been paired with something else that says "you may buy this card".
Contaband/Black Market is an example already.
I actually thought events might be like this, but never posted it. Seems cool, and a nice contrast to the long term stuff of reserves, Hireling, and Haunted Woods.
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Since 2 seems to be more of a suggested max than an actual rule, then there are 1,048,576 ways to have events in the game.
Correction: there are 1,048,575 ways to have events in the game and 1 way to not have them.
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If you do use a hard cap of 2 events, then with 235? kingdom cards and 20 events, the probabilities are:
0 Events - 42%
1 Event - 37%
2 Events - 21%
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If you do use a hard cap of 2 events, then with 235? kingdom cards and 20 events, the probabilities are:
0 Events - 42%
1 Event - 37%
2 Events - 21%
Recommended ways of choosing events be darned; I'm just putting all 20 in every game!
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The Expedition art is sick.
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In MTG; there's an explicit rule stating this. In Dominion, for the most part it hasn't been a real conflict, because there hasn't been a lot of things saying that you "can't" do things. The only one I can think of is Contraband, and that's never been paired with something else that says "you may buy this card".
Contaband/Black Market is an example already.
I actually thought events might be like this, but never posted it. Seems cool, and a nice contrast to the long term stuff of reserves, Hireling, and Haunted Woods.
And Contraband can't prohibit Events!
Expedition's art is simply gorgeous.
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"Next hand" means what you draw during your Cleanup phase?
In which case Militia would really spoil your Expedition?
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Well now I definitely don't know how to play this game. I'm glad it will have a rule book with some words about things.
This. The way I think of it is that, if you add a couple of events to a game, you have gone from playing Dominion to playing Advanced Dominion. A big part of that is just that you have more purchasing options.
Normally I'm a stickler for the rules suggestions like when to use Colonies and Shelters. But since events were introduced, we always put two in every game (unless playing with newbies). Rather than shuffling them into the card randomizers, I just keep my Event cards with my base cards (Copper, Province, etc.) so that I always have them no matter which sets I'm bringing with me.
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Also, these are a really clever way to get a lot of content in the set. Because there is only one of each Event, you get 20 ideas instead of just two with the same number of cards. (That is, two 10-card Kingdom cards.. and okay you need two more for the randomizers, so even better.) It's impressive.
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Recommended ways of choosing events be darned; I'm just putting all 20 in every game!
Man, I assume you're joking. That sounds awful.
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That wording to Mission is really confusing. The "Once per turn:" prefix in particular. It makes it look like something that can happen multiple times when you buy it, maybe after each opponent's turn, or something.
I assume it's just there to prevent you spending $8 and two buys to get two extra turns (right?) But why not just use the wording from Outpost?
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I love Mission. I love that there are still 17 more events.
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Adventures is not gonna be online any time soon.
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So how much pages of cards and card-like things do we now need on Goko for all the new stuff?
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That wording to Mission is really confusing. The "Once per turn:" prefix in particular. It makes it look like something that can happen multiple times when you buy it, maybe after each opponent's turn, or something.
I assume it's just there to prevent you spending $8 and two buys to get two extra turns (right?) But why not just use the wording from Outpost?
It is my understanding that the "Once per turn:" prefix means that you can only buy Mission once per turn.
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Adventures is not gonna be online any time soon.
Should I start streaming my IRL games?
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That wording to Mission is really confusing. The "Once per turn:" prefix in particular. It makes it look like something that can happen multiple times when you buy it, maybe after each opponent's turn, or something.
I assume it's just there to prevent you spending $8 and two buys to get two extra turns (right?) But why not just use the wording from Outpost?
It also appears to prevent you from gaining a 3rd turn after an outpost. It's already ineffective to play outpost during your extra turn, it's also ineffective to buy a mission during that turn as well.
DonaldX has already indicated that you can buy events on your mission (it's not buying a card), but the wording prevents you from getting a 2nd mission in a row.
But it seems like you could play an outpost on a mission, and get 3 turns in a row (1st turn full, 2nd turn with no buys, 3rd turn with 3 card hand). I'm not sure that's intentional. It seems like the general idea is that neither Mission nor Outpost should allow you to get more than 2 turns in a row.
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Funny story: So DXV was looking for names for certain cards (many older names weren't on-theme, etc.) and Trade was one of them. I suggested several names and he ended up picking Trade, which was one of the ones I suggested. Not the most glamorous name, but appropriate.
So I instantly go into fanboy mode "ZOMG I JUST NAMED A DOMINION CARD!!!!" I tell that to one of my friends and she says "Aww, that's adorable! Did you name it Kevin?"
So if I ever say I'm going to trigger a Kevin, that's why.
On another note, Kevin is one of my favorite events. On the right board, it serves as a hard counter to junking attacks, enough to make you want to ignore them; which I absolutely love.
Events are so cool, for 20 cards you're getting the value of 200 cards, and that's not taking into account how much cooler Events are than other kingdom cards. <3 so much.
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What the...
This Changes Everything.
Also, yeah, I may have to actually buy cards and get out my old sets, 'cause no way will this be online before the end of the year.
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At this point I feel it starts to undersell Adventures as a simple expansion. Starting to feel like a new game which happens to use the base cards from Dominion.
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So how much pages of cards and card-like things do we now need on Goko for all the new stuff?
I fully trust them to come up with a neat solution that only works if you have a dual monitor setup and is completely unusable otherwise.
Either that or they'll just triple the number of lobbies, which, while not in any way related, is at least something they know how to do.
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So how much pages of cards and card-like things do we now need on Goko for all the new stuff?
I fully trust them to come up with a neat solution that only works if you have a dual monitor setup and is completely unusable otherwise.
Either that or they'll just triple the number of lobbies, which, while not in any way related, is at least something they know how to do.
The man responsible for the number of lobbies has been sacked.
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I love Mission. I love that there are still 17 more events.
But you are not supposed to be here yet!!!
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Ok, example just to see if I know how this works. I play my hand in which I draw many of my cards in my deck, some of which are green, some are purple, and some are unused action cards (i'm not very good at this). I have two buys and Haunted Woods is in play. With my first buy, I buy a card, topdecking my green, purple and other cards. Then with my second buy, I buy a Mission, taking those cards I topdecked and 'playing' them (meaning mostly I just discard those green and purple cards). Is that one way to make this combination of cards work?
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God! I May cry... Can't wait to play these...
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That wording to Mission is really confusing. The "Once per turn:" prefix in particular. It makes it look like something that can happen multiple times when you buy it, maybe after each opponent's turn, or something.
I assume it's just there to prevent you spending $8 and two buys to get two extra turns (right?) But why not just use the wording from Outpost?
It is my understanding that the "Once per turn:" prefix means that you can only buy Mission once per turn.
Is this right?
Buying a Mission only lets you take one Mission turn (not one after every opponents' turn).
I can buy one Mission per turn.
I can buy more Missions on my Mission turns.
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"Once per turn" on Mission means you can't buy it twice in one turn. You can buy it on the Mission turn, but of course that won't do you much good, because the previous turn was yours.
Expedition has the phrasing that means everyone immediately knows what it does. For people who demand more precision, there's a rulebook.
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That wording to Mission is really confusing. The "Once per turn:" prefix in particular. It makes it look like something that can happen multiple times when you buy it, maybe after each opponent's turn, or something.
I assume it's just there to prevent you spending $8 and two buys to get two extra turns (right?) But why not just use the wording from Outpost?
It is my understanding that the "Once per turn:" prefix means that you can only buy Mission once per turn.
Is this right?
Buying a Mission only lets you take one Mission turn (not one after every opponents' turn).
I can buy one Mission per turn.
I can buy more Missions on my Mission turns.
You can buy mission on your mission turn. It just doesn't do anything since the previous turn was yours.
EDIT: what Donald said.
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There is no way to gain Missions so far (without buying), since you usually gain cards. Or am I missing some card here?
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There is no way to gain Missions so far (without buying), since you usually gain cards. Or am I missing some card here?
You do not gain Events. They are not cards.
But it seems like you could play an outpost on a mission, and get 3 turns in a row (1st turn full, 2nd turn with no buys, 3rd turn with 3 card hand). I'm not sure that's intentional. It seems like the general idea is that neither Mission nor Outpost should allow you to get more than 2 turns in a row.
No. Outpost: "This can't cause you to take more than two consecutive turns."
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There was this one test game where someone (I think jsh) bought Mission on each non-Mission turn and then bought about 6 Expeditions on each Mission turn. That was nuts.
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"Once per turn" on Mission means you can't buy it twice in one turn. You can buy it on the Mission turn, but of course that won't do you much good, because the previous turn was yours.
Expedition has the phrasing that means everyone immediately knows what it does. For people who demand more precision, there's a rulebook.
Ohhhh, the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" applies to when you can buy Mission, not when you can take a Mission turn. I was reading that all kinds of wrong. It makes so much more sense now, it's just doing the Outposty no consecutive turns thing.
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"Once per turn" on Mission means you can't buy it twice in one turn. You can buy it on the Mission turn, but of course that won't do you much good, because the previous turn was yours.
Expedition has the phrasing that means everyone immediately knows what it does. For people who demand more precision, there's a rulebook.
Ohhhh, the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" applies to when you can buy Mission, not when you can take a Mission turn. I was reading that all kinds of wrong. It makes so much more sense now, it's just doing the Outposty no consecutive turns thing.
No. "Once per turn" means you can't buy it twice in one turn. When you buy it, the rest happens, starting with an "if" that may end up true or false. Both things together stop you from taking more than 2 turns in a row with it.
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God! I May cry... Can't wait to play these...
Agreed. After tomorrow's last round of previews, how about a post from Mr. Tummelson with an update on availability?
Also, what size are the event cards?
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So without the "Once per turn:" you could buy, say, three of these on your turn. When you buy them, it's true that the previous turn wasn't yours. So at the end of your turn, you'd take three extra turns, and in each of those you couldn't buy cards?
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Also, what size are the event cards?
Same as the rest of the cards.
They don't take up Kingdom card slots; you shuffle them into your randomizer deck, but when you deal out cards, keep going until you have 10 Kingdom cards.
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No. "Once per turn" means you can't buy it twice in one turn. When you buy it, the rest happens, starting with an "if" that may end up true or false. Both things together stop you from taking more than 2 turns in a row with it.
Thanks for the clarification! I would have interpreted "once per turn" not as meaning you can only buy it twice per turn, but as meaning that if you did buy it a second time it wouldn't do anything. (No, I don't know why you'd want to do this.)
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Agreed. After tomorrow's last round of previews, how about a post from Mr. Tummelson with an update on availability?
Also, what size are the event cards?
As of today Jay says April 18. The Event cards are the same size as all the other cards.
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So without the "Once per turn:" you could buy, say, three of these on your turn. When you buy them, it's true that the previous turn wasn't yours. So at the end of your turn, you'd take three extra turns, and in each of those you couldn't buy cards?
Yes.
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There was this one test game where someone (I think jsh) bought Mission on each non-Mission turn and then bought about 6 Expeditions on each Mission turn. That was nuts.
It's like being able to buy a Tactician turn! (without the extra Action and Buy)
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Do events have the blue randomizer back? Or a brand new unique back? I assume it must be blue so that they match with the randomizers because that is how you are supposed to select them, but a new card back would be cooler.
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Do events have the blue randomizer back? Or a brand new unique back? I assume it must be blue so that they match with the randomizers because that is how you are supposed to select them, but a new card back would be cooler.
They have the regular randomizer back.
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On another note, Kevin is one of my favorite events.
I had no idea!
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Hm. I have mixed feelings about these. They remind me of Gambits in Star Realms, which I REALLY didn't like (fortunately, they don't at all resemble the Events in Star Realms, which are just incredibly dumb). However, unlike Gambits, they're all available to everyone, so that's nice. The cards themselves look cool and the new mechanic will undoubtedly change the way the game is played when they're present, so that's exciting.
Somehow though I get the feeling that Mission's interactions with Outpost and Possession are going to be nightmare-inducing.
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Man, this also opens up even more possibilities for "fan cards" as you only ever need to make one. Stuff like this can be tested IRL with 3x5 note cards on a whim.
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Actually, I already have a question regarding Mission/Outpost. If I play an Outpost and buy a Mission in the same turn, couldn't I choose to play the Outpost turn first and get 3 in a row? In this case, Outpost is not causing me to take more than 2 consecutive turns (since it's only my second consecutive turn) and at the time that I buy Mission the previous turn wasn't mine, so it seems that that effect should trigger, too. That feels like a stretch, but a legalistic interpretation of the wording on the cards would seem to suggest this is allowed. Am I missing something?
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Question about the interaction of Expedition/Minion...
Does the Minion effect is a next hand? If i Discard my hand and draw the four cards... Is it a new hand?
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I made a bunch of guesses about Events (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12371.msg453869#msg453869) when the expansion blurb was first revealed.
So I got this part right:
Based on comments in the thread so far from people in the know, it sounds like Event cards are something you buy that let you do something immediately, but don't gain you a card. So each of the 20 Event cards are actually separate Events.
And then there was my guess on how to include them:
How would you include them in the game? I imagine that you could set it up like you do Colonies, or optionally choose to include them outright, if you so desire. And if you use Events, maybe randomly choose 3 and that's it for the whole game? Maybe once an Event is purchased, it is replaced by a new one from the stack?
which was close, but not quite correct. In retrospect, just including them directly in the randomizers was an obvious, simple solution.
I am really excited to see what all the events are. It really opens up the design space, and the design space of Dominion was already ridiculously big.
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Actually, I already have a question regarding Mission/Outpost. If I play an Outpost and buy a Mission in the same turn, couldn't I choose to play the Outpost turn first and get 3 in a row? In this case, Outpost is not causing me to take more than 2 consecutive turns (since it's only my second consecutive turn) and at the time that I buy Mission the previous turn wasn't mine, so it seems that that effect should trigger, too. That feels like a stretch, but a legalistic interpretation of the wording on the cards would seem to suggest this is allowed. Am I missing something?
Don't think so...
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Actually, I already have a question regarding Mission/Outpost. If I play an Outpost and buy a Mission in the same turn, couldn't I choose to play the Outpost turn first and get 3 in a row? In this case, Outpost is not causing me to take more than 2 consecutive turns (since it's only my second consecutive turn) and at the time that I buy Mission the previous turn wasn't mine, so it seems that that effect should trigger, too. That feels like a stretch, but a legalistic interpretation of the wording on the cards would seem to suggest this is allowed. Am I missing something?
Yes you can resolve the Outpost turn first and still get the Mission turn.
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Question about the interaction of Expedition/Minion...
Does the Minion effect is a next hand? If i Discard my hand and draw the four cards... Is it a new hand?
As far as we know, you can only ever buy an Event during the buy phase, so there is no way you can ever buy it and then play Minion. Even if you could, I think the intended interpretation is that it gives you an extra 2 cards when you draw your next hand in that clean-up phase, i.e. for your next turn. If another player plays Minion (or another attack), that could wipe out your Expedition.
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Question about the interaction of Expedition/Minion...
Does the Minion effect is a next hand? If i Discard my hand and draw the four cards... Is it a new hand?
No. This question doesn't make any sense (I can't play Minion after buying Expedition and before getting my next hand) but that's okay, it's still no.
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Question about the interaction of Expedition/Minion...
Does the Minion effect is a next hand? If i Discard my hand and draw the four cards... Is it a new hand?
No. This question doesn't make any sense (I can't play Minion after buying Expedition and before getting my next hand) but that's okay, it's still no.
Yeah... right... My bad :-[
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There could conceivably be a card that lets you buy Events during your Action phase (the, uh, Black Event Market).
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I fully trust them to come up with a neat solution that only works if you have a dual monitor setup and is completely unusable otherwise.
Nah, that would violate the Harrison Bergeron principle. The interface of course has to be limited to the things you could do with a tablet. An off-brand bargain tablet without multitouch. Which can't actually run Goko anyway.
I fully trust them to come up with an awkward solution that involves dragging something.
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Here's a question - since you've said you use the randomizers as your Black Market deck, is it possible for Events to end up in the Black Market deck?
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Oh hey, now you can buy something after you play Hermit and still get a Madman!
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Here's a question - since you've said you use the randomizers as your Black Market deck, is it possible for Events to end up in the Black Market deck?
I don't think so. BM pretty clearly specifies kingdom cards, and Events are not kingdom cards.
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Man, this also opens up even more possibilities for "fan cards" as you only ever need to make one. Stuff like this can be tested IRL with 3x5 note cards on a whim.
You don't even need that. You just need to say "for this game, I'm going to say that you can spend x on an event that does y."
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Man, this also opens up even more possibilities for "fan cards" as you only ever need to make one. Stuff like this can be tested IRL with 3x5 note cards on a whim.
You don't even need that. You just need to say "for this game, I'm going to say that you can spend x on an event that does y."
True, but personally I wouldn't remember past turn 3 that this thing exists.
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Actually, I already have a question regarding Mission/Outpost. If I play an Outpost and buy a Mission in the same turn, couldn't I choose to play the Outpost turn first and get 3 in a row? In this case, Outpost is not causing me to take more than 2 consecutive turns (since it's only my second consecutive turn) and at the time that I buy Mission the previous turn wasn't mine, so it seems that that effect should trigger, too. That feels like a stretch, but a legalistic interpretation of the wording on the cards would seem to suggest this is allowed. Am I missing something?
I guess if I were the opposing lawyer I would say: Outpost and Mission are both telling you to take the same extra turn (with different conditions). If you choose to resolve Outpost first, when you go to resolve the Mission you can't take another turn after this one, because you already did; a potential third turn would be after that one (the Outpost turn).
Of course, you would then argue that another turn after that one is nonetheless also after this one, and therefore fits the direction since it doesn't say 'directly' after this one. And then you would triumphantly cite precedent declaring that "Possession is 9/10 of the law!"
[That was good, wasn't it?]
Fortunately:
a) The High Judge has spoken, and
b) I'm not a lawyer.
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Somehow though I get the feeling that Mission's interactions with Outpost and Possession are going to be nightmare-inducing.
I don't think it'll be too bad.
First off, Mission does not interact with Possession, since you can't play Possession on Mission. Possession will only allow you to take one extra turn with Outpost because Outpost by itself can't be used to take more than two turns in a row.
Oh, wait, Possession, not Precession.
Let's deal with the simple case of Mission and Outpost:
If you play Outpost, then buy a mission, then in your discard phase you will keep out the Outpost and then (probably) get to choose which extra turn you get: the mission or the outpost extra turn (similar to how playing two possessions on an opponent, and playing an outpost during the first posession allows the possessor to choose to play out outpost extra turn before the second possession, or after). Playing the mission first results in a mission with only three cards, and no third turn. Playing the outpost extra turn first results in a third turn in a row, the last turn a mission.
Now for Possession:
Cribbing from the Wiki on Possession/Outpost,
Interactions with Possession are difficult: remember that when your opponent Possesses you, he makes you take an extra turn, and makes all decisions for you.
- So, if your opponent plays a Possession, then makes you buy a Mission during that Possessed turn, they will get to see the five cards you draw; then you will take your buy-less Mission extra turn, since that will only be your second turn in a row; and then you will take your regular turn.
- If your opponent plays two Possessions, you take two extra turns from them; so if your opponent then makes you buy a Mission on the second Possessed turn, it does nothing since the previous turn was yours.
- If your opponent plays two (or more) Possessions and makes you buy a mission during the first Possessed turn, they will get to make you decide when to take the extra turn from Mission; they can make you take an extra turn with no buys cards after the first Possessed turn, or they can choose to delay your Mission turn. Unlike the Outpost case, you will get to play the mission, since nothing in the Mission card says you can't have more than two turns in a row, just that you can't get them from Missions after your first turn.
I would assume that if my opponent plays two (or more) Possessions and makes me play both an outpost and buys a mission on the first Possessed turn, they would get to choose if my second turn was the Possessed turn, the Outpost turn, or the Mission turn.
What is unclear to me, in both the double-Possession/Outpost and double-Possession/Mission cases is who controls on the Outpost or Mission extra turns? Would it be I'm Possessed, I control the mission, I'm Possessed, I control my normal turn?
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Man, this also opens up even more possibilities for "fan cards" as you only ever need to make one. Stuff like this can be tested IRL with 3x5 note cards on a whim.
You don't even need that. You just need to say "for this game, I'm going to say that you can spend x on an event that does y."
True, but personally I wouldn't remember past turn 3 that this thing exists.
So you need a blackboard.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
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Somehow though I get the feeling that Mission's interactions with Outpost and Possession are going to be nightmare-inducing.
I don't think it'll be too bad.
First off, Mission does not interact with Possession, since you can't play Possession on Mission. Possession will only allow you to take one extra turn with Outpost because Outpost by itself can't be used to take more than two turns in a row.
Uh, yes, you can. You just can't buy cards.
EDIT: Also, the Possessor *chooses* whether the Possessee takes the Mission turn or their normal turn. And it doesn't really matter which happens, because the Possessee will be back in control regardless - so they get two turns, one of which they won't be able to buy any cards.
What is unclear to me, in both the double-Possession/Outpost and double-Possession/Mission cases is who controls on the Outpost or Mission extra turns? Would it be I'm Possessed, I control the mission, I'm Possessed, I control my normal turn?
The Possessee controls Mission and Outpost turns, regardless of how many Possessions were played; those are not Possession turns. However, choosing to play a Possession turn before an Outpost turn can result in the Possessor controlling a 3-card hand, and then the Outpost turn never happening, because of the "no more than two consecutive turns" clause.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
They don't follow the Potion-cost card suggestion, so they'll probably just do totally random for Events. My guess would be something like 10% chance for each Event being used in any given game. (Because, theoretically, that comes out to 2 per game on average.)
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My head asplode.
Trade - a Remake that doesn't cost an action?
Mission is Outpost with more cards and a penalty - again that doesn't cost an action.
Expedition - a cheap ruined Wharf, doesn't cost an action
Not sure whether I prefer the originals. Having these as essentially nonterminals - but having to pay for every single use.. I'm too much of a newbie to determine if that repeat cost is worth it or not. Money isn't always abundant, and I'm thinking I'd mostly want to spend it on stuff that cycles in my deck permanently.
So how much of a real benefit ARE Events?
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My head asplode.
Trade - a Remake that doesn't cost an action?
Mission is Outpost with more cards and a penalty - again that doesn't cost an action.
Expedition - a cheap ruined Wharf, doesn't cost an action
Not sure whether I prefer the originals. Having these as essentially nonterminals - but having to pay for every single use.. I'm too much of a newbie to determine if that repeat cost is worth it or not. Money isn't always abundant, and I'm thinking I'd mostly want to spend it on stuff that cycles in my deck permanently.
So how much of a real benefit ARE Events?
The fact that you pay for each use I think makes them so that you can't really compare it to existing cards. It doesn't cost an action, and it doesn't cost a card in your hand, but it does cost money and a buy.
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So let's talk Events as openers.
Opening Mission is obviously going to be pretty silly, unless there's another Event that'd be worth not buying any cards for? I dunno.
Opening Expedition will probably be best on turn 2, so you don't fuck with your shuffle, but I could see it being pretty nice.
Opening Trade seems awesome! Skip a turn to replace two Coppers with Silvers? Yes, please! Never mind... Unless I use a Baker token to trash an Estate...
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
It will open up a new browser widow for each event card, and they will all flash during your buy phase if you can buy them.
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My head asplode.
Trade - a Remake that doesn't cost an action?
Mission is Outpost with more cards and a penalty - again that doesn't cost an action.
Expedition - a cheap ruined Wharf, doesn't cost an action
Not sure whether I prefer the originals. Having these as essentially nonterminals - but having to pay for every single use.. I'm too much of a newbie to determine if that repeat cost is worth it or not. Money isn't always abundant, and I'm thinking I'd mostly want to spend it on stuff that cycles in my deck permanently.
So how much of a real benefit ARE Events?
The Silvers you gain from Trade do cycle through your deck permanently, and you can trash two bad cards on top of it. Considering 2 Silvers would usually run you $6 and 2 buys, I'd say that's a good deal.
The point of buying cards is to improve your deck. There are other ways to improve your deck (or attack opponents' decks). Mission sacrifices $4 and a buy to help you use all those other ways more.
Expedition is like buying 2 one-shot Labs that go on your deck.
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Opening Trade seems awesome! Skip a turn to replace two Coppers with Silvers? Yes, please!
The trashed cards have to come from your hand. You can't trash the Coppers you use to buy Trade.
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Opening Trade seems awesome! Skip a turn to replace two Coppers with Silvers? Yes, please!
The trashed cards have to come from your hand. You can't trash the Coppers you use to buy Trade.
Right! Right. Dammit.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
I assume in "full random" it will be: add events randomly along with kingdom cards until there are 10 Kingdom cards, perhaps to a maximum of 2 events. A max of 2 events won't matter much for someone who owns all of the sets, but someone who owned just base and Adventures would be playing with an average of more than 3 events if there was no cap.
Using negative binomial approximation (Excel has no built in negative hypergeometric distribution? Appalling!), and the above method, the chance of more than 2 events (with 235 kingdom cards and 20 events) is only 6.2%.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
They don't follow the Potion-cost card suggestion, so they'll probably just do totally random for Events. My guess would be something like 10% chance for each Event being used in any given game. (Because, theoretically, that comes out to 2 per game on average.)
2 per game on average is a lot higher than what you would get with the official method.
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So just to confirm, if I play workshop, I can't 'gain' an event?
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So just to confirm, if I play workshop, I can't 'gain' an event?
Yes.
Consider the physical card simply a reminder that in this game you are allowed to spend money + 1 Buy during your buy phase to get the effect.
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So let's talk Events as openers.
Opening Mission is obviously going to be pretty silly, unless there's another Event that'd be worth not buying any cards for? I dunno.
Opening Steward/Mission, then hoping to trash 2 cards on "turn 2b" doesn't sound silly to me at all.
Not saying this is incredibly good, because maybe just buying a $4 on turn 2 is better, but certainly worth considering.
Opening Expedition will probably be best on turn 2, so you don't fuck with your shuffle, but I could see it being pretty nice.
It's nice on turn 2 if you managed to buy something great on turn 1 (Remake?)
I can also see it work turn 1, if you just really want to hit $5 or maybe even get lucky for $6 (Count, Trading Post, Mountebank, Altar)
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Opening Steward/Mission, then hoping to trash 2 cards on "turn 2b" doesn't sound silly to me at all.
Not saying this is incredibly good, because maybe just buying a $4 on turn 2 is better, but certainly worth considering.
That sounds worse than buying another Steward if there are no other events you might buy on your Mission turn. In that case, there's a 5/11 chance that you draw the Steward and a 6/11 chance that you used your buy only to increase cycling wasted your buy.
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Opening Steward/Mission, then hoping to trash 2 cards on "turn 2b" doesn't sound silly to me at all.
Not saying this is incredibly good, because maybe just buying a $4 on turn 2 is better, but certainly worth considering.
That sounds worse than buying another Steward if there are no other events you might buy on your Mission turn. In that case, there's a 5/11 chance that you draw the Steward and a 6/11 chance that you wasted your buy.
Not really? In the 6/11 chance, you are still cycling to your Steward faster.
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That sounds worse than buying another Steward if there are no other events you might buy on your Mission turn. In that case, there's a 5/11 chance that you draw the Steward and a 6/11 chance that you wasted your buy.
Not really? In the 6/11 chance, you are still cycling to your Steward faster.
That's true. At the end of turn 3, the chance that you'll have played Steward if you open Steward-Mission (thus getting turn 2b) is 10/11= 90.9%.
If you open double Steward, at the end of turn 3 the chance that you’ll have played Steward is 68.2% (thank you Excel, for having the hypergeometric distribution). But you have two Stewards in your deck, which seems like a notable advantage on most of the boards when you would consider buying Mission just to increase your chance to trash with the first Steward.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
They don't follow the Potion-cost card suggestion, so they'll probably just do totally random for Events. My guess would be something like 10% chance for each Event being used in any given game. (Because, theoretically, that comes out to 2 per game on average.)
I sincerely hope this isn't the case. Events look cool, but I don't want them suddenly to be in every single game. I imagine the Potion-cost card suggestion has been ignored because it disregards the proportion of Alchemy cards in the randomizer deck and would make Alchemy WAY over-represented in the majority of games. However, Donald's suggestion of putting Events into the randomizer deck and just using the ones that come up up to a maximum of 2 is a great way to have Events be represented based on the proportion of Adventures cards in the randomizer deck. If Events are selected independently of the kingdom then they would be way over-represented.
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I wonder how the selection of Events will be implemented online. I mean, will the total number of Events in the game be fully random, or will it have a default limit?
I assume in "full random" it will be: add events randomly along with kingdom cards until there are 10 Kingdom cards, perhaps to a maximum of 2 events. A max of 2 events won't matter much for someone who owns all of the sets, but someone who owned just base and Adventures would be playing with an average of more than 3 events if there was no cap.
Using negative binomial approximation (Excel has no built in negative hypergeometric distribution? Appalling!), and the above method, the chance of more than 2 events (with 235 kingdom cards and 20 events) is only 6.2%.
I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):
0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
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They don't follow the Potion-cost card suggestion, so they'll probably just do totally random for Events. My guess would be something like 10% chance for each Event being used in any given game. (Because, theoretically, that comes out to 2 per game on average.)
It's worth remembering that the Potion-cost card suggestion was only added for players who felt Alchemy cards weren't worth it when there was only 1 in the kingdom. This got added to make those players feel better about Alchemy. But it is not actually a good idea, and never was.
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First of all, wow.
Second, wow.
Thirdly, wow.
Awesome.
Like, really awesome mechanic.
Okay, the cards:
Expedition:
I can't even... Uh, hmm. Turn 3, mediocre hand, make sure stuff doesn't miss shuffle? Probably early you would rather be buying stuff, but maybe you do it if there is some trasher you want to get to a lot... Hmm, usually you probably prefer a second copy first. Maybe with Chapel. Anyway, you are mostly using it later. Maybe you can build an engine out of all this, but it seems like a pain - that is a lot of money and buys. So mostly you're... using it in a Big Money deck, as it's a lot better than silver on those late buys on dud hands? And of course just anywhere you have the spare money and buy, it won't be bad. Probably not enough to build a deck/strategy around, but a nice role-player. Interesting, difficult decisions.
TradeKevin:
This would be totally broken at 3. Most likely just too strong at 4. I feel like it's going to be pretty weak at 5. I mean, the issue is, you have to have the cards in your hand. Maybe it is good for terminal-draw BM? Yes, probably - turning 2 estates into silvers is going to be better than gold pretty much every time. An estate and a copper into silvers has to be as well. Two coppers? Well, now you need to have $7 (you need to hold the coppers back), which is asking a lot. Better than gold in a BM deck.... mmm, probably not. How about in engines? Sure, if you can't otherwise trash, or if you have cards that have outlived their usefulness (trashers say), turning them into silvers is a pretty sleek way to upgrade (not the card necessarily) your economy. So I guess this is reasonably solid anyway. Another role player, probably better for Big Money than engines, because in engines you'll so often want a 5-cost instead. Yeah.
Mission:
This one has, I think, the most potential of any card we've seen so far in the set to be broken. It probably isn't though, at least normally. Attacks that stack, this is brutal. If you just want to trash on your next turn anyway, here's your guy. And of course, it's going to be bonkers in engines which gain rather than buy - we're looking at you Horn Of Plenty. Still, I think the strongest thing will be with Ambassador, where you just need to spam this to try to win the war, yeah? I guess on your 'average' board, it hardly does anything - I guess you can skip a hand you know is going to be bad if there's no combo, but that hardly seems good. Normally weak, but lots of opportunities to be really really strong.
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First of all, these events are amazing.
This expansion adds so much strategy depth its crazy. Events really seems to take strategy to the next level. Plus, we have Reserves which make us think when we should use a card and not use it and missing the shuffle and all that.
With that said, I am not sure how any of these play out. I think Event cards will truly be board dependent. With that said. These all seem to have strong abilities. I can't wait to play with them.
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expedition turn 1, trade turn 2 looks pretty sweet to me in most engines.
Sure it takes 2 turns, but with 7 coppers, 2 silvers and one estate you can probably buy $5+ cards all game long.
And yes, wow :)
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If I wasn't already for sure pre-ordering this, I am now. Super excited to see the remaining 17 cards... and due to the immediate effect I am hoping there is one that can let us empty the supply in 3 turns :)
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expedition turn 1, trade turn 2 looks pretty sweet to me in most engines.
Sure it takes 2 turns, but with 7 coppers, 2 silvers and one estate you can probably buy $5+ cards all game long.
And yes, wow :)
If you have 3/4, this is probably a good risk (assuming both are on board, which seems rare, but hey, will come up). You have a 10% chance of whiffing entirely, which puts you in quite rough shape. 30% you get only one copper and an estate into silvers, which is probably still good, if not great. And 60% you get to turn two estates into silvers, at which point you should be very ahead.
If you have 4/3, this is not a good risk. 30% chance you get the dream, 70% chance you open -/4-cost (or I guess you expedition again maybe, but I think you are still not in good shape there).
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Do the events use up one of your buys?
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Do the events use up one of your buys?
Yes.
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First of all, wow.
Second, wow.
Thirdly, wow.
Three wows from WW - that's saying something.
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i just got a +1 from donald
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First of all, wow.
Second, wow.
Thirdly, wow.
Three wows from WW - that's saying something.
I think that's saying "wow".
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It's funny...yesterday I was thinking that the art on the new Adventures cards is sooo much better that it is a shame the images could not be larger and take up more of the card. Then presto...we have events that are mostly images. Love it!
I'm assuming that the +2 cards from the Expedition event happens during your clean-up and draw for next turn phase - right? So your next 7 card hand would still be vulnerable to hand-size attacks like Militia, Margrave, Mercenary, etc... Just trying to confirm that it is not like a Wharf duration, and that with an Event you get the extra cards at the end of your current turn, and NOT the start of the next turn. I'm hoping all the events activate during your current turn...otherwise tracking outstanding events could be tricky since you don't have your own cards for the events on the table like with durations. But then I don't know what the tokens are for yet...
Incredibly creative expansion!! All the experienced players will love it. I'm still trying to introduce Hinterlands to those I game with IRL, and have not yet introduced Dark Ages, Guilds, or Alchemy to them. I'm just wondering if this will be too much for occasional players who sometimes complain that I am always introducing cards they are not familiar with...we'll see...
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I'm hoping all the events activate during your current turn...otherwise tracking outstanding events could be tricky since you don't have your own cards for the events on the table like with durations. But then I don't know what the tokens are for yet...
Yeah I was thinking this might be what tokens were for, but seems not. Something interesting you could do would be to buy an Event by putting a token on it, and then you can do the Event at any relevant time by removing the token. Kind of like a Reserve Event.
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Hey just occurs to me... since these event cards don't move once they are chosen for the game, wouldn't they lend themselves to some coolly-designed little vertical stand or board to slot them into? They'd be on ready display for everyone at the table to glance over at, like the chalkboard specials at a bistro. Could be fun and stylish as well as functional!
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I'm hoping all the events activate during your current turn...otherwise tracking outstanding events could be tricky since you don't have your own cards for the events on the table like with durations. But then I don't know what the tokens are for yet...
Yeah I was thinking this might be what tokens were for, but seems not. Something interesting you could do would be to buy an Event by putting a token on it, and then you can do the Event at any relevant time by removing the token. Kind of like a Reserve Event.
Yup...that is exactly what I was wondering as well. I was just trying to figure out how the physical mechanics would work during a game on a table with 3-4 people and hoping it is simple. The friends and family I have introduced to Seaside adapted to the duration cards surprisingly quickly because the duration cards are always there on the table in the top row to physically remind them of future actions. But with Hinterlands, it has been an ongoing saga of forgotten actions like top-decking Nomads or after using Scheme...and especially forgetting to shuffle in discard actions after gaining an Inn - even I forget to do that when moving too quickly.
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Possession has a funny interaction with Mission.
If I play Possession in my turn and buy a Mission, I get two extra turns. I decide to do Possession first, then my Mission extra turn. Because you took a possessed turn between my turns, I may buy another Mission on my Mission turn.
So all I need is a engine that draws my deck and generates 4$, then I can possess/Mission until you resign (or the random number generator collapses my engine).
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Possession has a funny interaction with Mission.
If I play Possession in my turn and buy a Mission, I get two extra turns. I decide to do Possession first, then my Mission extra turn. Because you took a possessed turn between my turns, I may buy another Mission on my Mission turn.
So all I need is a engine that draws my deck and generates 4$, then I can possess/Mission until you resign (or the random number generator collapses my engine).
You can't decide to do Possession first. When two things happen to different players at the same time, you go in turn order; the Mission turn will happen ahead of the Possession turn.
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Wait a minute, how does Expedition work with Outpost (if you play/buy both on the same turn)? My guess is that you will draw 5 cards (3 because of Outpost, then an extra 2 from Expedition). But it could also be that Outpost tells you specifically to draw 3 cards, so that's what you would have to draw. Outpost doesn't say 2 fewer cards, it says 3 cards.
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Wait a minute, how does Expedition work with Outpost (if you play/buy both on the same turn)? My guess is that you will draw 5 cards (3 because of Outpost, then an extra 2 from Expedition). But it could also be that Outpost tells you specifically to draw 3 cards, so that's what you would have to draw. Outpost doesn't say 2 fewer cards, it says 3 cards.
Outpost says "...only draw 3 cards (instead of 5)..." while Expedition says "Draw 2 extra cards..."
I would interpret that as Outpost draws 3, and then Expedition draws 2 more.
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Wait a minute, how does Expedition work with Outpost (if you play/buy both on the same turn)? My guess is that you will draw 5 cards (3 because of Outpost, then an extra 2 from Expedition). But it could also be that Outpost tells you specifically to draw 3 cards, so that's what you would have to draw. Outpost doesn't say 2 fewer cards, it says 3 cards.
You'll get 5 cards. There will be a rulebook, it will cover most of these important questions.
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Also, we now have Trade, Trader, Trade Route, Trading Post, Horse Traders, and Jack of all Trades.
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So, as a mental exercise, I am trying to work out the cost of an event that gives +1 Buy.
The answer I get so far is that it depends on the Kingdom.
My actual answer is 2 but I'm not sure.
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TradeKevin:
This would be totally broken at 3. Most likely just too strong at 4. I feel like it's going to be pretty weak at 5. I mean, the issue is, you have to have the cards in your hand. Maybe it is good for terminal-draw BM? Yes, probably - turning 2 estates into silvers is going to be better than gold pretty much every time. An estate and a copper into silvers has to be as well. Two coppers? Well, now you need to have $7 (you need to hold the coppers back), which is asking a lot. Better than gold in a BM deck.... mmm, probably not. How about in engines? Sure, if you can't otherwise trash, or if you have cards that have outlived their usefulness (trashers say), turning them into silvers is a pretty sleek way to upgrade (not the card necessarily) your economy. So I guess this is reasonably solid anyway. Another role player, probably better for Big Money than engines, because in engines you'll so often want a 5-cost instead. Yeah.
I think Kevin will be a situational card for the late-building phase of engines - for those turns where it's not quite all together but you have a lot of draw yet somehow you've wiffed and missed your good stuff cards (+Buy, Trash for Benefits) cards and normally you'd sigh but now you'd still sigh but not as loud and use Kevin to get rid of the last Estate and Copper in your deck.
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So, as a mental exercise, I am trying to work out the cost of an event that gives +1 Buy.
The answer I get so far is that it depends on the Kingdom.
My actual answer is 2 but I'm not sure.
Ruined Event? :)
Buying the event costs a buy so you probably mean +2 buys and yes I think you're right. $1 would be too cheap and $3 too expensive.
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So, as a mental exercise, I am trying to work out the cost of an event that gives +1 Buy.
The answer I get so far is that it depends on the Kingdom.
My actual answer is 2 but I'm not sure.
Ruined Event? :)
Buying the event costs a buy so you probably mean +2 buys and yes I think you're right. $1 would be too cheap and $3 too expensive.
Errr, yes, +2 Buys ;D (Attention to detail like that is why -Stef- is a top player and I am not!)
If you added the restriction "Once per Turn" you could make an argument for it to be 1. I don't know if it would be a good argument but making it non-spammable would reduce the power.
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I feel like $2 unlimited would be better than $1 once-only. There are diminishing returns, after all; making it possible to get to the often-sufficient two buys whenever you have just $1 to spare would really hurt the use of other +Buy cards.
Existing cost-reducers like Highway don't work on Events, right? That probably helps things, although they nonetheless synergize with more buy sources.
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Mission triggers at the end of YOUR turn, right? I thought it was possible to pin people in multiplayer but I think I just misunderstood when it triggers.
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I saw that post before you deleted it, Mole5000. I saw it!
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Question for playtesters: did any of you have to gradually warm up to events? Because I'm a little iffy about the whole idea.
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Question for playtesters: did any of you have to gradually warm up to events? Because I'm a little iffy about the whole idea.
I think like the day Donald came up with them they were available to test. It's a lot easier to adjust to the idea in-game. Also, some of the effects of Events were once on older cards in a less intuitive fashion, so it just felt like a natural evolution of them. I would suggest making the judgment after you play with them. They add a nice bit of spice to the game.
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Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?
I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.
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Question for playtesters: did any of you have to gradually warm up to events? Because I'm a little iffy about the whole idea.
They really aren't all that different than just having an extra kingdom card or two. Some of them are a bit wacky but so are some kingdom cards. I like them enough to always put out two. More choices for the game really adds to the strategic amd tactical depth.
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Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?
I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.
For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
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From a kingdom design perspective, I already love the events. You get so much more control over what is or is not possible in your game now.
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I saw that post before you deleted it, Mole5000. I saw it!
There's always someone watching!
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Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?
I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.
Not at all. I didn't want to play any game that didn't have 2 events, and all 10 cards chosen from Adventures.
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Just to let everyone know, I did proxy and play with these events. Expedition is a very, very good card when you have $3 or $4 and really don't want a silver or some other $3 cost. Although, in the face of discard attacks, it is probably weak. I didn't play against any of those. Anyway, Expedition is an awesome card. Just saying. Trade and Mission came into effect not as much. Although, the trashing from Trade is decent.
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Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?
I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.
For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
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Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?
I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.
For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
No, he's saying he didn't play with events on accident.
IMO, Dominion Online should use a number of events between 0 and 2, determined by some formula or calculation that can't be put in a formula.
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I don't remember if it's been asked already, but...
Opening Expedition/Trade, do you think it's going to be a thing?
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I don't remember if it's been asked already, but...
Opening Expedition/Trade, do you think it's going to be a thing?
I doubt it. If you're unlucky, your second hand will still only have $4. If that doesn't happen, then I suppose you're in an ok position; but probably worse than opening Explorer (is opening Explorer still considered pretty strong? I dunno.) Now if you hit $4 first, then Smithy / Trade should be very similar to Expedition / Trade, except that you have a Smithy in your deck.
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I don't remember if it's been asked already, but...
Opening Expedition/Trade, do you think it's going to be a thing?
I doubt it. If you're unlucky, your second hand will still only have $4. If that doesn't happen, then I suppose you're in an ok position; but probably worse than opening Explorer (is opening Explorer still considered pretty strong? I dunno.) Now if you hit $4 first, then Smithy / Trade should be very similar to Expedition / Trade, except that you have a Smithy in your deck.
Except that you can't get Trade with $3.
Also, yes, if you're unlucky, the 2nd hand will have $4. I think this is too risky on 4/3, but it's only 10% of 3/4, gotta often be worth the risk.
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For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
For playtesting, the Events were a playtesting bottleneck. You can play 3 games and see every Kingdom card but you see only 6 out of 20 Events. So there was a strong incentive for us to always play with 2 Events (the recommended limit). So we did.
An option to force Events to be included does sound good though, I mean some people will for sure want to do that, at least for a while.
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For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
For playtesting, the Events were a playtesting bottleneck. You can play 3 games and see every Kingdom card but you see only 6 out of 20 Events. So there was a strong incentive for us to always play with 2 Events (the recommended limit). So we did.
An option to force Events to be included does sound good though, I mean some people will for sure want to do that, at least for a while.
My guess is that, after a while, Dominion won't feel like Dominion if we don't have Events.
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I don't remember if it's been asked already, but...
Opening Expedition/Trade, do you think it's going to be a thing?
I doubt it. If you're unlucky, your second hand will still only have $4. If that doesn't happen, then I suppose you're in an ok position; but probably worse than opening Explorer (is opening Explorer still considered pretty strong? I dunno.) Now if you hit $4 first, then Smithy / Trade should be very similar to Expedition / Trade, except that you have a Smithy in your deck.
Except that you can't get Trade with $3.
Also, yes, if you're unlucky, the 2nd hand will have $4. I think this is too risky on 4/3, but it's only 10% of 3/4, gotta often be worth the risk.
Oops, I was thinking of Smithy as the same as Expedition, because they both give you a 7 card hand, but forgot that you won't be playing Smithy on turn 2.
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For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
For playtesting, the Events were a playtesting bottleneck. You can play 3 games and see every Kingdom card but you see only 6 out of 20 Events. So there was a strong incentive for us to always play with 2 Events (the recommended limit). So we did.
An option to force Events to be included does sound good though, I mean some people will for sure want to do that, at least for a while.
My guess is that, after a while, Dominion won't feel like Dominion if we don't have Events.
And then after a while, it will again.
(Cf. the history of Colonies.)
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Once you make your Estates actions, you'll never want to go back.
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For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
For playtesting, the Events were a playtesting bottleneck. You can play 3 games and see every Kingdom card but you see only 6 out of 20 Events. So there was a strong incentive for us to always play with 2 Events (the recommended limit). So we did.
An option to force Events to be included does sound good though, I mean some people will for sure want to do that, at least for a while.
My guess is that, after a while, Dominion won't feel like Dominion if we don't have Events.
And then after a while, it will again.
(Cf. the history of Colonies.)
Except Events change every time, just like Kingdom cards, unlike Colonies/Platinum. I think the way Events change things is going to be much more interesting and long-lasting than the way Colonies change things.
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I have played lots of games with Events and then after that lots of games without Events. It all feels like Dominion. Which is a real shock I know.
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For me the most common thing was to play with 5 cards from Adventures and 5 cards from all the other expansions combined. I almost always used 2 events.
Sometimes we played with 10 Adventures cards and 2 events.
And I must admit I didn't realize the "specify 2 events setting right away" so I also accidentally played a bunch without events.
So, you're saying for Pro Mode, Goko should automatically allow for 2 events in pro games?
For playtesting, the Events were a playtesting bottleneck. You can play 3 games and see every Kingdom card but you see only 6 out of 20 Events. So there was a strong incentive for us to always play with 2 Events (the recommended limit). So we did.
An option to force Events to be included does sound good though, I mean some people will for sure want to do that, at least for a while.
My guess is that, after a while, Dominion won't feel like Dominion if we don't have Events.
Is that really likely? Is a set of two Events less likely to play no role or only a small one in a given game than any two Kingdom cards?
If so, that's pretty rad, but it seems like a tall order.
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It seems Mission also enables more deck deletion pins, Throne, Throne, Militia/Goons and Masquerade buying Mission every turn. That is just as effective as the classic KC-KC-Goons-Masquerade, it is a 4 card-combo, though. (I know technically Mission is not a card but it is selected in a similar way.)
Two Minions would serve the same purpose, too.