Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: AdamH on March 21, 2015, 02:01:42 pm

Title: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on March 21, 2015, 02:01:42 pm
I would have put this in the Articles subforum, but this thread, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12658.0) which is one of my favorite threads on the forum in recent memory, was posted here, so Imitation Is The Sincerest Form Of Flattery (IITSFOF)...

The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards that may not be the most obvious thing. A couple of times this has caught me by surprise in a game and while they may have been talked about in bits and pieces on the forums, I really like the idea of being able to read a thread full of one-line cute tricks. Who knows if you'll find any goodies that you hadn't really thought of?

EDIT: Let's try to keep this thread on topic, please  :)

I'll begin:

Quarry and Stonemason: When playing Quarry, the price of Stonemason reduces to zero, so the normal "quarry gives +$2 if you're buying one action" and "you need $2 extra to get the extra action with Stonemason" becomes much better. You get cost reduction on both the Stonemason you buy AND on the overpay!

Apothecary and Shanty Town: Any top-deck interaction will help you trigger your Shanty Towns more, this is true; but I think Apothecary stands to benefit the most from this, as it can get a lot out of using Shanty Towns early to draw your green and pushing your terminals off until later in the turn when you've got the actions to play them and trigger future Shanty Towns.

Doctor and Fool's Gold: These two have a troubled relationship, that's for sure. Fool's Gold is a card that can provide you high-income hands very early, which can lead to very beneficial Doctor overpays if you're paying close attention.

Highway and Horn of Plenty: You don't need to worry about having enough unique cards with Highway around, every Highway you play effectively counts as a unique card since it reduces the cost of whatever you're going to gain.

...and some of the more standard ones:

Highway and Ironworks Cost-reducers and gainers synergize, for sure, but these two probably deserve a special mention. Highway and Ironworks are both non-terminal so it's very easy to get lots of them to increase your chances of collision, and spamming these cards can be a way to get lots of power-$5 cards very quickly.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on March 21, 2015, 02:09:33 pm
never thought about quarry/stonemason. i think that's a genuine combo. also, quarry is an expensive card that's not very good in the late game, which helps justify taking that extra stonemason
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on March 21, 2015, 02:24:09 pm
University and Inn: The best thing I can think of for this is that every time you have a Uni in hand, think about gaining an Inn. It's probably amazing. Sure it isn't worth it without some kind of draw, but thinking about this will have you doing much better than the other guy who doesn't.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on March 21, 2015, 02:29:30 pm
Mint and Apprentice: Trash your coppers, reload your fuel.
University and Apprentice: Similar
University and City: empties piles easy.


I will point out with Stonemason/quarry, you may eventually need to NOT play quarry, so you can overpay for, e.g., the last of the stonemasons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on March 21, 2015, 02:56:09 pm
Gaining too many Inns with University could get to be a bit of a mess, as you're ending up with a bunch of hand-size-reducing villages. They can definitely be useful but you don't want more than you can use.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on March 21, 2015, 03:02:20 pm
Chancellor/Scavenger and Hunting Party: On an otherwise weak board with Hunting Party, you typically want to avoid cantrips like Caravan. However, if the best terminal on the board is Chancellor or Scavenger, this is a non-issue. (This doubles as an edge case where Chancellor > Scavenger. Unfortunately, it's rare.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JacquesTheBard on March 21, 2015, 03:04:11 pm
Quarry/Stonemason always seemed really clear to me, but then again, they are my favorite cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on March 21, 2015, 03:19:39 pm
Scavenger/Venture. Topdeck your best treasure and then play Venture.

Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on March 21, 2015, 03:21:04 pm
I will point out with Stonemason/quarry, you may eventually need to NOT play quarry, so you can overpay for, e.g., the last of the stonemasons.
You would also want to be careful to not play multiple Quarry for anything under $5 as cards costing zero (like the Stonemason you just reduced to $0) would be impossible to pick up. But the early game interaction is definitely worth noting.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on March 21, 2015, 03:47:15 pm
Ghost Ship/Wishing Well - you can guarantee a hit after getting hit by a Ghost Ship attack, which mitigates a lot of the attack. Similarly, Farming Villages lets you topdeck Victory cards and skip right past them

Ghost Ship/Fortune Teller - if you can play both in 1 turn, you deny allowing the opponent to topdeck good cards, and mess up the previous Well and/or FV interaction. You may allow them to topdeck Coppers which get discarded though, so be careful (want to make sure they at least have 1 Victory card in their deck.)

Develop/Herald - You can guarantee a Herald hit since the action you want to hit can be placed 2nd from the top.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 21, 2015, 04:25:58 pm
On-trash effects/Doctor - you can buy cards with on-trash effects and trash them the same turn with a Doctor overpay, which is mostly useful for ending the game on piles with Catacombs or Hunting Grounds.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Squidd on March 22, 2015, 12:31:20 am
I'm pretty sure Quarry is why Stonemason is called that. Maybe the clearest case of synergistic cards having synergistic names in the whole game. (That, or sacrificing Cultists at the Altar.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on March 22, 2015, 12:32:19 am
I'm pretty sure Quarry is why Stonemason is called that. Maybe the clearest case of synergistic cards having synergistic names in the whole game. (That, or sacrificing Cultists at the Altar.)

Are you trying to tell me that Butcher and Peddler don't fit this description?  :'(
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 22, 2015, 12:38:44 am
REDACTED and REDACTED.  Oops, I can't talk about those yet!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on March 22, 2015, 12:44:39 am
How well-known should the interactions mentioned here be? Like, does Scheme + Hermit/Madman belong here?

An interaction I like is Courtyard/Native Village. Not great for increasing handsize, but having them both in your engine deck ensures you can set the green cards you gain aside on the NV mat every turn. Similar to how Apothecary/Native Village works, but you can set aside the green cards in your starting hand too.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 22, 2015, 12:49:46 am
Bishop/Market Square.  This was on a board today I was trying to tinker with Hunting Grounds on, and I got distracted.  Bishop a Copper, discard two MS's, get two Golds to Bishop later!  It lets you Golden deck without needing the spending power.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on March 22, 2015, 05:07:31 am
Chancellor/Scout: Self-explanatory. This one is an obvious combo, and a great 3/4 opening.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Rubby on March 22, 2015, 11:09:10 am
Even better: Chapel/Scout. So you can trash your Scouts.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gveoniz on March 22, 2015, 11:18:52 am
REDACTED? / Scout is clearly better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: liopoil on March 22, 2015, 11:30:32 am
Watchtower/X is a good idea most of the time.

Scavenger/Scavenger. It's lucky chancellor without the luck. Even better with TR, KC, or Prince. Especially with KC, you can topdeck scavenger-KC-platinum every turn for a colony every turn. ymyosl.

For doctor/FG it is strong to get doctor on the opening as well. And be careful with quarry not to make the cards you want to overpay for cost 0.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 22, 2015, 11:33:55 am
It's lucky chancellor without the luck.

So it's just Chancellor?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: liopoil on March 22, 2015, 11:37:00 am
It's lucky chancellor without the luck.

So it's just Chancellor?
Oh. Uh, yeah, and chancellor is really good, so you want to play it every turn!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pacovf on March 22, 2015, 11:39:37 am
Chancellor/Scout: Self-explanatory. This one is an obvious combo, and a great 3/4 opening.

Scout draws your green so that you can draw and play Chancellor earlier.
Chancellor puts your deck in your discard pile so that you can draw and play your Scouts in your discard pile earlier.
Your deck ramps up lightning fast.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on March 22, 2015, 05:34:41 pm
Swindler/Peddler: If the Peddlers are likely to run out, your Swindlers could end up turning opponents' Peddlers into Provinces; otherwise they could turn their Provinces into Peddlers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: CavJes on March 22, 2015, 06:45:07 pm
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: liopoil on March 22, 2015, 06:52:36 pm
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
Huh, I wonder where you thought of that one...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on March 22, 2015, 07:05:55 pm
The general combo of cost reducer + gainer is a great one to know.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: CavJes on March 22, 2015, 07:49:12 pm
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
Huh, I wonder where you thought of that one...

Yes, I dropped a little crumb for the multi-topic browsers... :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on March 22, 2015, 11:23:35 pm
Fool's Gold BM+X seems so spiky that you may hit 12 with it once or twice and then have to tweak your strategy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on March 23, 2015, 02:16:39 am
Even better: Chapel/Scout. So you can trash your Scouts.
Scout draws your starting Estates to be trashed with Chapel!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theJester on March 23, 2015, 07:36:16 am
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on March 23, 2015, 08:17:09 am
Black Marker definitely synergises with Adventure cards as long as they are not to be named.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on March 23, 2015, 08:43:26 am
Black Market + draw-up-to-x:
Play Black Market + a lot of treasures (it doesn't matter whether you actually buy something from the BM deck or not), then play your draw-up-to-x (e.g. Library).  You will have the coins from the treasure you just played, while you draw a ton more cards.  Do this multiple times per turn and you're off to the races.  Of course this requires some sort of village for support.

Usage:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150315/log.516d4577e4b082c74d7b716e.1426465057559.txt

EDIT: I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 23, 2015, 09:05:38 am
Junk dealer/Apprentice: Buy junk dealer, then apprentice, then one or two more junk dealers.  Junk dealer focuses on trashing copper and apprentice on estates. Once the junk is running low, apprentice starts trashing junk dealers for +1 action +5 cards. The big handsize here also helps you line up your last bits of junk with your last junk dealers. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on March 23, 2015, 12:38:40 pm
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 23, 2015, 12:40:46 pm
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Unless you're overdrawing your deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on March 23, 2015, 12:48:01 pm
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Unless you're overdrawing your deck.

Very true. It can also be helpful if you've already drawn especially high-value Treasures like Platinum.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on March 23, 2015, 07:52:58 pm
Scout/Apothecary. No, seriously. Ok, so it's not useful, really, but it's neat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on March 23, 2015, 08:25:36 pm
Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theJester on March 23, 2015, 09:25:25 pm
Journeyman + Fairgrounds
Chapel + Gardens
Counting House + Poor House
Highway + Bishop

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 23, 2015, 09:26:45 pm
Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on March 23, 2015, 11:02:14 pm
Good to know your nombos. But in all seriousness, Prince + Cost Reducer is pretty special.

I like cost reducers, can't you tell?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on March 23, 2015, 11:18:17 pm
Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: SirClemens on March 24, 2015, 02:29:55 am
Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?

With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on March 24, 2015, 08:28:01 am
Apprentice/Explorer (http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150324/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1427199895349.txt)

Apprentice gives big hands and trashing to line up Province/Explorer, Explorer gives Gold to trash with Apprentice. Not as crazy as Market Square/Apprentice, but still quite useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Kirian on March 24, 2015, 09:44:18 am
Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.

Scavenger and Chancellor don't synergize with a Princed CH, since the CH gets played first, before you get to play the Scavenger.

I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 24, 2015, 09:47:57 am
Good to know your nombos. But in all seriousness, Prince + Cost Reducer is pretty special.

I like cost reducers, can't you tell?

Be careful about *Princing* a cost-reducer when you want to use a cost-caring TfB, like Apprentice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on March 24, 2015, 09:52:22 am
Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.

If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.

Scavenger and Chancellor don't synergize with a Princed CH, since the CH gets played first, before you get to play the Scavenger.

I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.

I assume he meant Prince the Chancellor/Scavenger, especially because you don't need a cost-reducer to do so.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on March 24, 2015, 10:03:07 am
I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck.  Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.

You're thinking about this backwards. Coppersmith itself helps you get $8 early and Prince of Coppersmiths does make you want more Copper than normal in your deck. "Most of the time you'd rather get rid of it and buy something better?" Prince of Coppersmiths instantly "gets rid" of all your Copper and replaces it with Silvers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 24, 2015, 10:29:17 am
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on March 24, 2015, 10:31:27 am
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

Well, Baron gives +1 Buy, which is significant.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 24, 2015, 10:45:26 am
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:


Baron doesn't have any of these problems it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Eevee on March 24, 2015, 10:51:26 am
I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on March 24, 2015, 12:10:38 pm
New combo: Forge/Spice Merchant!

Forge can gain Coppers for Spice Merchant to trash to create the only possibility of +buy...

Happened in this game (http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150324/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1427213235367.txt).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on March 24, 2015, 12:14:40 pm
Well this thread had a good run, I guess.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 24, 2015, 12:18:27 pm
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4.  That makes it comparable to Baron.

There are multiple reasons:

  • You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
  • You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
  • If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
  • When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.

Baron doesn't have any of these problems it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.

I guess I'll save it for my Worker's Village/Margrave/Counting House/Vault/Scout engine, then.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on March 24, 2015, 03:29:50 pm
I guess the most interesting one I haven't seen mentioned would be Candlestick Maker / Gardens. It's one of the best Gardens enablers in the game, actually. Each CSM is at worst a Copper that gives you an additional buy, and unlike Workshop, Woodcutter, etc. they are non-terminal. Its cheap as fuck cost combined with the +Buy means you can afford to buy a TON of them (like more than 5) before you start greening. Once you start stuffing your deck, it swells so quickly that you can often get to 50 cards before the rush is over. Plus Coin tokens are just super useful for Gardens strategies. Those annoying $3 hands when you're trying to lock up the Gardens pile stop being a problem with Coin tokens. It's almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on March 25, 2015, 01:45:37 am
Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.
Counterfeit?
Herbalist?
With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.
Oh, that's what was meant. Well BM + HoP + Graverobber or Rogue also let you do this.  For treasures other than HoP, Counterfeit was mentioned and that could work with BM and Graverobber/Rogue for multiple plays of the same treasure in one turn, not just the two of buying Mandarin.

Also worth noting Mandarin doesn't have to be bought, it could be gained with e.g. Altar or Jester or Graverobber/Rogue or even Highway+IW and such
almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.
I just played a game with Storeroom, Gardens, and P-stone.  Mmmm.

One I think a lot of people miss: Gardens and Soothsayer.  ~3 Soothsayers lets you simultaneously contest Gardens and Provinces in a way that can really catch your opponent off guard (they'll only be going for one, and you'll win because you can contest both)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on March 25, 2015, 07:23:45 am
Silver, when paired with a Gold, produce $5 on a consistent basis based on simulation results, however the code is still fairly basic right now.

I'm planning on adding this to the Dominion Combos page on the wiki, I didn't see it there last time I checked.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on March 25, 2015, 11:30:35 am
Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on March 25, 2015, 11:39:09 am
Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on March 25, 2015, 11:48:54 am
I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.

(http://i.imgur.com/LKZ9Kor.jpg)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on March 25, 2015, 01:01:22 pm
Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.

Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?

I got the first Estate on my overpay, and the second near the end of a shuffle when I knew it would be there. I picked up a second Doctor by the end of the third shuffle and trashed at least 7 Copper. Bought 3 Caches, so I had at most 6 Copper in my deck, then I think I managed two Gold buys before picking up Province. Had just two Silver. Unfortunately I don't have the log from this game.

This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on March 25, 2015, 02:45:57 pm
This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.

Well it "hurts" your turn in as much as each Doctor could have been a Silver. So it puts you down $2 in hand. Maybe it's worth it, dunno. I'd more readily believe that one Doctor was a good call than that two Doctors are.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on March 27, 2015, 11:30:01 am
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Burning Skull on March 27, 2015, 12:43:19 pm
I can see a surprisingly great potential in Village / Smithy combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on March 27, 2015, 04:18:34 pm
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 27, 2015, 04:20:41 pm
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: sudgy on March 27, 2015, 04:23:17 pm
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on March 27, 2015, 04:31:55 pm
With KC, or for the last Duchy
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on March 27, 2015, 07:35:25 pm
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

It has won me the game before.

Quote
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays City
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits, Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Band of Misfits
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Mining Village
pubby   plays Mining Village
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws Band of Misfits
pubby   trashes Mining Village
pubby   plays Band of Misfits
pubby   chooses Feast
pubby   plays Feast
pubby   trashes Feast
pubby   gains Duchy
pubby   plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   buys Province
pubby   gains Province
pubby   shuffles deck
pubby   draws City, Copper, Silver, City, Province
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: sudgy on March 27, 2015, 11:12:01 pm
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

WHO ARE YOU AND HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITHOUT ME EVEN KNOWING
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: qmech on March 28, 2015, 02:29:34 pm
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!

WHO ARE YOU AND HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITHOUT ME EVEN KNOWING

Iguanas are closely related to chameleons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: XerxesPraelor on March 28, 2015, 03:12:00 pm
And the rhetorical device of repetition signals emphasis out of this world.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on March 28, 2015, 05:34:41 pm
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).
I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.

I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!

I have played a bot game on Goko where the bot ignored all other Kingdom cards until it had finished off the BoM pile that way.

I think BoM is very good when Conspirator is on the board as BoM can be used to either activate the Conspirator chain or be pat of it.

An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on March 28, 2015, 06:12:18 pm
An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.

It's also very good with Familiar it gives you slightly higher odds of hitting $3P on turns 3 and 4 than Silver does, and then it helps you play the Familiars more often.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on March 28, 2015, 06:13:42 pm
An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.

It's also very good with Familiar it gives you slightly higher odds of hitting $3P on turns 3 and 4 than Silver does, and then it helps you play the Familiars more often.

Just try not to cry too hard when Sage skips over your University.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 06, 2015, 04:14:27 pm
So let's be really optimistic here and assume this will do the trick:

Let's try to keep this thread on-topic, please :)

In that vein, I'll post a few more of these. Some are classics, but maybe not all of them.

Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Menagerie/Warehouse: Menagerie is enabled strongly by cards that allow you to discard selectively from your hand, but Warehouse gets a special mention because it's much, much better than other cards for enabling Menagerie decks. You can draw most of your deck without Copper trashing, you can green heavily and not really stall all that much, which are things you're hard-pressed to do with other discarders.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on April 06, 2015, 04:16:33 pm
Doctor/Fortress: Can draw you cards if there's no other way to do so. More realistically, Fortress makes your Doctor less of a dead card later.
There have been two times I have tried to use this as my only real draw. Pro tip: it doesn't work very well (somehow I think I actually won those games anyway, but yeah, not advised)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 06, 2015, 04:18:06 pm
Doctor/Fortress: Can draw you cards if there's no other way to do so. More realistically, Fortress makes your Doctor less of a dead card later.
There have been two times I have tried to use this as my only real draw. Pro tip: it doesn't work very well (somehow I think I actually won those games anyway, but yeah, not advised)

Hey there was one game I played a long time ago where I could keep playing Lookout later than normal because of Fortress, it was kind of nice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on April 06, 2015, 04:19:56 pm
Storeroom/Philosopher's Stone. SR discards so it can push your PS, can sift through the junk you start with and the junk you might get, accellerates your deck and provides the buy you need to push PS and to actually make something of it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 06, 2015, 04:28:01 pm
Here are two strong combos I saw recently that are probably well known, but that i had to learn about the hard way by losing to them.                           

Scheme/conspirator: simple. just get two schemes and have them topdeck themselves. Now your conspirators are always activated every turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1428010853731.txt                                 

University/watchtower: play universities to gain actions and topdeck them with watchtower. Then play the watchtower to put the gained actions into your hand and play them with the plus actions provided by university. If you gain a second watchtower and some handsize decreasing actions, you may be able to do this more than once in a turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150406/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1428344689079.txt

EDIT: added example games now that I am on a home computer and can do things like that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Polk5440 on April 06, 2015, 06:10:28 pm
Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Related: Quarry/Grand Market.

Not sure if this one was mentioned, but this is a combo I miss very often. With just a little bit of trashing, lining up multiple Quarries is not too hard. Then Grand Markets with the +Buy creates a very nice feedback loop.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: dondon151 on April 06, 2015, 07:05:13 pm
Even without trashing, if there's engine potential, Quarry + GM is just nuts.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on April 07, 2015, 12:08:46 am
Even without trashing, if there's engine potential, Quarry + GM is just nuts.

Even without engine potential, Quarry + GM is most likely better than most other things you could be doing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on April 09, 2015, 06:13:12 pm
Band of Misfits and Conspirator providing there are cheap cards that give + action.

Band of Misfits can then either be used to activate the Conspirator chain or as Conspirators themselves. This means you have a very good chance of getting the chain going each turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 17, 2015, 08:15:25 am
Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on April 17, 2015, 08:29:23 am
Stables and Crossroads - one of my favorite draw engines.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pacovf on April 17, 2015, 08:36:49 am
Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?

For that to be possible, you would need an effect that trashes cards by itself, without instructing a player to do so (so "your hand" in "put it into your hand" is not defined), or an effect that sends cards to the trash without trashing them. I don't think either exists.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 17, 2015, 09:15:28 am
I don't know about perma-trashing fortress, but i still find stuff for this thread when i'm playing games.

Hunting party/Altar. Buy altar on your first 6 hand, almost certainly. Hunting party will repeatedly put it in your hand with an estate, which you can trash for a hunting party. You will have double hunting party turns, and the altar will quickly eliminate estates from your deck, meaning hunting party will trip on it instead of them. After this is done, on a worst case scenario the altar can start turning copper into silver, but probably in most kingdoms there is a better target card than silver once the hunting parties are out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 17, 2015, 11:37:32 am
Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?

If a card said, "Place x in the trash" and a Fortress was in x, that would work.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 17, 2015, 12:06:15 pm
Can we make a "Lame and certainly useless card interactions" thread?

Poor House + Copper
Death Cart + Silver
Forge + Gardens
Smithy + Hunting Party
Crossroads + Necropolis
Scout + anything
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 17, 2015, 12:28:18 pm
*sigh*

Let's try to keep this thread on topic, please  :)

Council Room/Pillage: Council Room vastly increases the potency of Pillage's attack, the chances of you hitting a hand that was bad anyways decrease quite a lot. You can also play multiple Pillages on your opponent in a turn which is much more potent as well (though that's probably only feasible with Throne Room and the like). Plus, the draw and buys that Council Room gives you help you make use of the Spoils you get.

Very few times do I consider Pillage to be a legitimate attack, but Council Room is probably the best enabler out there.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on April 17, 2015, 02:59:56 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 17, 2015, 03:32:49 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on April 17, 2015, 03:34:28 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.

When someone has that plan working against you: Moat. (Useful defense is a useful interaction, yeah?) You are more likely to be defended than normal, given your increased handsize, and you're getting a bigger benefit than normal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on April 17, 2015, 03:52:27 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.

It also gives you a chance to draw up your newly bought Black Market cards if you're able to overdraw!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on April 17, 2015, 03:57:29 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

It's not surprising that you've only pulled it off once, it requires three specific cards in a kingdom and kingdoms with three specific cards in them are incredibly rare.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on April 17, 2015, 04:00:43 pm
Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

It's not surprising that you've only pulled it off once, it requires three specific cards in a kingdom and kingdoms with three specific cards in them are incredibly rare.
Well, the Minion could be in the Black Market deck. (It wasn't, but it could have been.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Polk5440 on April 17, 2015, 05:22:51 pm
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Use the spying attack to discard your opponents' cards until you spy something you want to trash. Province or Duchy? Or their key engine card, perhaps? In this situation, you may want to keep playing Scrying Pools even if you aren't drawing any cards.

Similarly, Scrying Pool + Tribute. Look for the card type you want to flip.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on April 17, 2015, 05:59:27 pm
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to trash remove Scrying Pools after leaving them on top of their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on April 17, 2015, 06:58:17 pm
^ Also works with Spy if Scrying Pool is unavailable.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GeoLib on April 17, 2015, 09:15:10 pm
^ Also works with Spy if Scrying Pool is unavailable.

Well except that spy sucks
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 18, 2015, 12:03:14 pm
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).

I feel like the margin of benefit for you minus the benefit for him in removing Scrying Pools from the game (instead of Swindling one of his other cards) is negligible at best, under almost all scenarios.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Orange on April 18, 2015, 12:58:16 pm
A couple simple ones:

Feodum + Raid:  play many Silver, buy Raid, get many Silvers, profit.
Band of Misfits + Ferry:  Place -2 cost token on Goons or Grand Market or other strong 6-cost card.  Then play Band of Misfits as the card with the reduced cost.

Ferry + Workshop/Armory/Ironworks:  Place -2 cost token on Goons or Grand Market or other strong 5- or 6-cost card.  Then use the gainer to gain the card with the reduced cost.  (Add 7- cost cards if Altar or Feast is in play.)


Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 18, 2015, 02:40:27 pm
Province and Gold.

The Provinces give you VP while the Gold supplies you with the coins for other important cards like Chapel, which is actually a really good card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: nickchak on April 18, 2015, 03:03:05 pm
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights


Scrying Pool + Swindler

Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).

A similar concept; if you can reliably insert Fortune Teller -> Saboteur into an engine and play it every turn, it can make for devastating and consistent end-game VP trashing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on April 18, 2015, 08:36:51 pm
A similar concept; if you can reliably insert Fortune Teller -> Saboteur into an engine and play it every turn, it can make for devastating and consistent end-game VP trashing.
Ah, the Rabbleteur deck. One of my favourites.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 18, 2015, 08:47:39 pm
Ferry + Grand Market -- it's significantly easier to get to $4 without Copper than it is to get to $6 without Copper.

Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on April 18, 2015, 09:09:26 pm
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 18, 2015, 09:11:47 pm
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 19, 2015, 04:43:25 am
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

Where is the full list of cards?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 19, 2015, 09:04:25 am
Alternatively, use Ferry on a key $4 or $3 to protect it from trashing Attacks. Never mind, doesn't work.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on April 19, 2015, 09:10:29 am
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

For Knights, Rogue, and Giant, you'd almost always be targeting a $7 card, since the $8 cards aren't be too great to go after anyway. So King's Court most likely. For Warrior, you'd go after a $5 or $6 card; there are plenty of good targets among those.

This does bring to mind the caveat that if you wanted to Ferry a $3 or $4 card, you'd be protecting your opponents' copies of it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on April 19, 2015, 10:42:05 am
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.

Ferry only works on Actions.

Oops.  So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!

Where is the full list of cards?
I'm guessing you missed the Rules Online thread?

I think and 5-cost you want multiples of would be good.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on April 20, 2015, 03:10:54 am
Prince + Inheritance - if there's a card you really want to Prince, then you can use Inheritance to imprint your Estates and now you suddenly have three more copies of it in your deck, thus greatly improving the chance you'll collide it with Prince. In addition, if you have an unreliable cost-reducer (or one where it's hard to play the reducer before playing Prince), then you can apply it in one turn to let your Estates Inherit, then you need never worry about whether you'll be able to get the cost down when you need to since the Estates cost $2!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on April 20, 2015, 03:40:42 am
This is probably obvious, but Prince and Ferry. Now, you can play Rebuild or Mountebank every turn or GM whatever. Hell, how does this sound, Ferry and anything else. The Event is just nuts crazy insane.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on April 20, 2015, 03:45:48 am
Or beyond awesome, as some will call it
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on April 20, 2015, 10:47:15 am
Rebuild and Mountebank don't actually sound like great Prince targets, as powerful as they are.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 11:56:33 am
Pardon my frustration.

One day, long ago I had a dream. This dream was that there would be a thread full of little combos that people could read through and add to their mental checklists so their game might improve.

Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off. The odds of seeing three particular cards in a kingdom these days are extremely unlikely, and so they are much less useful. How much less useful? About 200 times less useful. Even requiring a village or additional draw or a category of cards to be useful is speculative. Three-or-more card combos get less and less worth talking about every day as more cards are added to the game, it's been said a lot but I'll say it again: the best place to talk about these interactions is probably in Game Reports or maybe Puzzles.

Hey, we just found a card from Adventures that reduces cost! WWWHOOAOAOAOAHAHAHAH!!! HOLY FUDGE BARS! Look at all the cool things we can break with it! The place for a list of all the cool Ferry interactions is probably a new thread on Ferry. Why? Because the dream wasn't to talk about all the mediocre combos with one particular card, the dream was to find the cream-of-the-crop pairs of cards, those special long-lost lovers who, when united, produce beautiful music far beyond what they could do alone; music that nobody else in the world could create.

If the combo is really [type of card] + [one particular card] and not two particular cards, then it should probably be presented as such (but again, the discussion on that probably belongs in a thread about the particular card). Maybe one particular card in [type of card] is way way better than the rest of its type so it's worth talking about here. Example: Quarry is probably the best cost-reducer for Stonemason because it's easy to get in play and have Stonemason take advantage of it. Stonemason is probably the best gainer for Quarry (yeah yeah Talisman whatever) because most gainers have trouble taking advantage of Quarry's cost reduction, but not Stonemason. The music, it's so beautiful! It's almost as good as TSwift's latest jam <3 <3

If your combo involves a type of card, and they're all really interchangeable, then that discussion really has to do with the particular card. Not with this list. If one shining example of your card type is really really good, that's what we're looking for. Talk about the category and then say why this particular card is better. Sure a flute sounds good with strings, but it was the flute+viola duet that brought tears of joy to my eyes.

Pardon my frustration again.

Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?

Yeah that frustration applies to articles too I guess. Forgive me but any article on an Adventures card that's posted this year, I'm just not going to take seriously. Jack was out for 3 years before I felt comfortable writing an article about it. But this is all my personal opinion. I should be whining about this thread only because my opinion actually kind of matters here.

I'm sorry for my frustration, but there are just so many more people here that are taking this thread in 55 different directions than the few that try to steer it back. My arms are sore.

OK I'm done complaining now. Carry on with your discussions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 20, 2015, 12:04:35 pm
Bear in mind you called this thread "Neat and potentially useful card interactions".  You did not call it "List of combos sensu stricto".  So, I think most of this are thinking of it as "oo, this seems interesting" rather than "THESE TWO CARDS EAT SPAGHETTI 'NEATH THE GIBBOUS MOON".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 12:09:13 pm
What you say is not incorrect, I'm just trying to isolate the things that make this thread go off-topic and try to fix them. If that means branching off things that spawn unrelated discussions and/or attempting to prevent them from doing so, then sure, let's do that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 20, 2015, 12:24:05 pm
I like this thread a lot and want it to keep going more or less the way adam wants it to as well. Not sure who else feels that way. Adam, what if you made a list of posts that you feel fit the criterion and keep that updated on the first post. That way, there can be tangents in the thread itself but the worthwhile posts are all still together and easy to read.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 12:27:48 pm
I mean yeah I could do that, and I probabily will end up doing it. But I'd rather people be able to talk about a topic seriously on the forums. Partially because that's less work for me, partially because I don't want to have to decide what is "good enough" because that makes me an authority on the subject (which I'm not). And partially because I want to see good threads in the future that don't get sidetracked and then just die sadly.

Sorry if I sound grumpy but I guess I kind of am. Humbug. Uhh, let me say something silly to lighten the mood.

Woozle wuzzle?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GeoLib on April 20, 2015, 12:28:42 pm
Bear in mind you called this thread "Neat and potentially useful card interactions".  You did not call it "List of combos sensu stricto".  So, I think most of this are thinking of it as "oo, this seems interesting" rather than "THESE TWO CARDS EAT SPAGHETTI 'NEATH THE GIBBOUS MOON".

I'm going to agree with Wero here that the thread title does not convey your declared vision in your last post, Adam. I suggest that if you were to start a thread called "Primo combos" or whatever and clarify in the OP that you wanted the very best two-card combos that people had actually played with, you might have results more to your liking. I do agree that people tend to get a little over-excited about declaring combos with new cards, and I understand your frustrations with things going off in tangents.

Also, I would recommend editing the worthy combos into the OP every so often. That will help to fulfill your vision of a succinct list for people to read.

PPE: ninja'd on the last point.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 20, 2015, 12:30:47 pm
I'm pretty sure that if this thread had a [serious] tag, the OP would have the right to delete your 'woozle wuzzle' remark :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on April 20, 2015, 12:31:09 pm
I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 20, 2015, 12:31:33 pm
I think you're being a bit too exacting here.  The thread is titled "neat and potentially useful card interactions", which neither suggests that they have to be exactly two specific cards or that they have to form an actual ultimate combo. 

In your OP you mention Doctor/FG which doesn't seem to fit your strict requirements.

Later on you post CR/Pillage.  That requires a village.  Oh no, overly speculative 3-card combo! I guess you could replace CR with Governor draw but now it's not a unique interaction, oops.

If you want to limit it to hyper-specific 2 card combos, this thread is going to see much less activity.  If you didn't want to have theoretical combos (which may involve new Adventures cards), you probably shouldn't have asked for potentially useful interactions.

I get your frustration, but definitely think that you're being a lot grumpier than warranted.

PPE: ninja'd
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 20, 2015, 12:36:51 pm
I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.

Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.

Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?

And I hope you mean to Counterfeit your surplus Gold because Counterfeited Hoard won't gain you anything.

Oasis is fine with Rebuild but I wouldn't call it out as a combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 12:37:44 pm
I will not argue that my idealism has been misplaced. I sort of thought people knew how to talk about Dominion perfectly and would see my examples and realize what the spirit of this thread was and never go off-topic. I didn't really want to close off the discussion to only power-combos that make beautiful music, but "what else can I do to keep discussion on track?"

And yes there are answers here that come short of "make a serious tag and be a real hard-patootie about it" which is exactly what I was looking for. So +1s for all of you. Yeah I guess I should just suck it up and do those things.

But I feel like I get to whine about it and then be mildly sorry for whining about it. I'm not perfect.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on April 20, 2015, 12:38:41 pm
Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pacovf on April 20, 2015, 12:40:20 pm
Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?

Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on April 20, 2015, 12:42:12 pm
I don't understand the fuss over Adventures speculation when this thread specifically calls for "potentially useful" interactions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 12:43:12 pm
Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...

I'll be first to admit that I'm probably much more skeptical of everything in life than most people on this board. But no, it's not an exaggeration of my own personal feelings.

I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.

Me too, brah. Me too.  :-\
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 20, 2015, 12:43:59 pm
Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?
Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.

OK, but now you're asking for a lot of support from other cards.  I don't think NV/Catacombs alone is going to reliably draw your deck. At the least you want another village lest NV put away important cards during interim plays.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on April 20, 2015, 02:18:02 pm
Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 20, 2015, 02:39:58 pm
Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on April 20, 2015, 03:10:04 pm
Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.

It surprised me how well it worked. My opponent did have one as well. I did have some luck in that the turn after I got my first Merc I had a reshuffle and drew my other Urchin and Merc together so I was hitting him twice as frequently. He also didn't go for the IGG rush. He tried some money strategy so was probably hurt more by my attacks then I was by his. Also I am only around the mid 3,000s on Goko so it is unlikely either of us were playing anything like the optimal strategy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 03:17:22 pm
I usually just IGG-nore IGG whenever there's any halfway decent trashing. In this case, I think Mercenary+Big Money might just beat Mercenary+IGG+Big Money. Of course this is rarely ever going to actually be the case but you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on April 20, 2015, 03:27:27 pm
Right, Urchin/Mercenary is a reason to not bother with IGG.  They don't synergize, they anti-synergize, because in the face of an IGG buyer your opponent will get 2 mercenaries and have no trouble using their $5+ buys on something better than IGG.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on April 20, 2015, 03:55:30 pm
Thanks for the replies.

Being corrected like this is what I was hoping to get out of the forum. I thought I had found something good but the reality sounds more like it was just not as bad as what my opponent was doing.

 8)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 04:10:19 pm
Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on April 20, 2015, 05:27:52 pm
Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.

GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!

this wasn't a tangent. someone proposed an idea directly related to the thread title. someone else directly debated the idea (not edge-casing it) and others thoughtfully weighed the arguments; the original proposer concluded that there may have been an error.

(on the other hand these two posts of ours form a mini-tangent.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on April 20, 2015, 05:56:39 pm
On the tangent topic of Ill-Gotten Gains, I remember one game I played against a bot with IGG + Trader + Feodum, and it all seemed to work out very nicely.  Of course, Trader synergizes with Feodum on its own, but trashing IGGs for 5 Silvers is cool; plus Trader itself is a partial IGG defense.  I'm not sure of the practicality of this in a real game, though (i.e., against a live opponent). 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: TheOthin on April 20, 2015, 06:04:58 pm
IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 20, 2015, 06:16:31 pm
Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on April 20, 2015, 08:42:17 pm
Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

I like this idea.

NV/Bridge
Royal Carriage/Bridge
KC/Bridge
MS/Hermit
MS/Apprentice
Governor + hand size reducer
KC/Masq + hand size reducer

That's all I have for now
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 20, 2015, 09:31:18 pm
Royal Carriage/Bridge

Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?  My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed.  Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.

Or maybe you are just pointing it out as a significant synergy, like "Governor + hand size reducer".  Even then I am uncertain; there are plenty of other ways to get multiple Bridges in play (like, say, TR-Bridge, or Village-Bridge, heh).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 20, 2015, 10:00:56 pm
Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.

Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

This is actually a really good idea. I think someone should do it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the right guy for the job.

The discussion here has caused me to think about what I wanted from this thread originally. I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide, since as you can tell I'm sort of flailing today when I was presented with some helpful feedback.

Royal Carriage/Bridge
Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?

It's about as much of a thing as Throne Room/Bridge is, only slightly better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on April 20, 2015, 10:30:56 pm
IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.

Yeah, but then again, grabbing IGGs forces the opponent to deal with the curses in some way (which could be Trader itself).  But, getting a bunch of IGGs and then a bunch of feoda is kind of slow.. I think it may have only worked because the bot did something silly that just wasn't competitive.  I think Silvers and Feoda emptied.. or Foeda IGGs and Curses, and I had almost all the Silvers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 20, 2015, 10:35:13 pm
So how much is Guide/Outpost actually a combo?  Is it good enough that when both of them are on the table, it's a decent enough strategy to just go for them?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 20, 2015, 11:54:33 pm
Royal Carriage/Bridge

Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?  My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed.  Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.

I know it's not particularly scientific, but I decided to run a single simulation of this. I bought 2 Bridges then Silvers, with obviously Royal Carriages on 5. On turn 9 I managed to buy 4 Carriages by calling the two that I had. After that I bought a couple more Bridges while loading up my Tavern, then an Estate and a Duchy while waiting for a Bridge, and finally bought 8 Provinces on turn 16.

I then tried it with Chapel, holding on to 1 Bridge, 1 Silver and 1 Copper as well as the Chapel, and bought the Provinces on turn 15.

I then tried it with Horse Traders and bought the Provinces on turn 18.

So based purely on these single games, I'd speculate that Bridge/Royal Carriage is competitive with say BM+Smithy, so long as you get a mini-megaturn, Bridge/Royal Carriage/Chapel is a bit better, and Bridge/Royal Carriage/Horse Traders isn't as good as it sounds, since even though you are getting to $5 often, it takes too long to get them in your Tavern. What you want is to get 2 RCs, then call them both on a Bridge to get 3-4 more in one turn.

For the record, as long as you get there in time, this will beat 5 Provinces or 4 Provinces and 3 Duchies, and in fact should do even better since there will often be 'wasted' turns near the end where you just buy a Duchy or Estate because there's nothing else to do.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 21, 2015, 12:43:32 pm
I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide

As promised, here is my spiel.

So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.

The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.

So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.

So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.

So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.

Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pacovf on April 21, 2015, 12:52:06 pm
I think the first thing you should do is change the title of the thread.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 21, 2015, 12:55:21 pm
I think the first thing you should do is change the title of the thread.

Yes,

and I'd be happy to compile a list of constructive additions to the thread thus far.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on April 21, 2015, 01:02:10 pm
I would say "keeping the discussion on track" is not a useful endeavor: what if some deemed "off track" discussion leads to useful insight?  Also, there are things to be learned from "bad" ideas or suggestions as much as "good" ones.  Maybe someone didn't understand why an apparently synergy seems to antisynergize because of some misunderstanding of lack of understanding of some aspect of Dominion, but after some criticism and discussion, they come out enlightened, and that's a good thing. 

I think it would be useful to edit into the OP the ones that seem good, as you've said.  Though, that does takes some time/effort, and it's okay if you're not up for that. 

PPE: Hooray community.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on April 21, 2015, 01:11:42 pm
I'm happy to do things now, but the ongoing work is not the stuff I'm good at.

I wouldn't know what to change the thread title to, and someone other than me should be able to edit that post as new things come up. So maybe the answer is just to start another thread?

So the ones I liked:

Quarry and Stonemason: When playing Quarry, the price of Stonemason reduces to zero, so the normal "quarry gives +$2 if you're buying one action" and "you need $2 extra to get the extra action with Stonemason" becomes much better. You get cost reduction on both the Stonemason you buy AND on the overpay!

Apothecary and Shanty Town: Any top-deck interaction will help you trigger your Shanty Towns more, this is true; but I think Apothecary stands to benefit the most from this, as it can get a lot out of using Shanty Towns early to draw your green and pushing your terminals off until later in the turn when you've got the actions to play them and trigger future Shanty Towns.

Doctor and Fool's Gold: These two have a troubled relationship, that's for sure. Fool's Gold is a card that can provide you high-income hands very early, which can lead to very beneficial Doctor overpays if you're paying close attention.

Highway and Horn of Plenty: You don't need to worry about having enough unique cards with Highway around, every Highway you play effectively counts as a unique card since it reduces the cost of whatever you're going to gain.

...and some of the more standard ones:

Highway and Ironworks Cost-reducers and gainers synergize, for sure, but these two probably deserve a special mention. Highway and Ironworks are both non-terminal so it's very easy to get lots of them to increase your chances of collision, and spamming these cards can be a way to get lots of power-$5 cards very quickly.

University and Inn: The best thing I can think of for this is that every time you have a Uni in hand, think about gaining an Inn. It's probably amazing. Sure it isn't worth it without some kind of draw, but thinking about this will have you doing much better than the other guy who doesn't.

Mint and Apprentice: Trash your coppers, reload your fuel.
University and Apprentice: Similar
University and City: empties piles easy.

Chancellor/Scavenger and Hunting Party: On an otherwise weak board with Hunting Party, you typically want to avoid cantrips like Caravan. However, if the best terminal on the board is Chancellor or Scavenger, this is a non-issue. (This doubles as an edge case where Chancellor > Scavenger. Unfortunately, it's rare.)

Ghost Ship/Wishing Well - you can guarantee a hit after getting hit by a Ghost Ship attack, which mitigates a lot of the attack. Similarly, Farming Villages lets you topdeck Victory cards and skip right past them

Ghost Ship/Fortune Teller - if you can play both in 1 turn, you deny allowing the opponent to topdeck good cards, and mess up the previous Well and/or FV interaction. You may allow them to topdeck Coppers which get discarded though, so be careful (want to make sure they at least have 1 Victory card in their deck.)

Develop/Herald - You can guarantee a Herald hit since the action you want to hit can be placed 2nd from the top.

An interaction I like is Courtyard/Native Village. Not great for increasing handsize, but having them both in your engine deck ensures you can set the green cards you gain aside on the NV mat every turn. Similar to how Apothecary/Native Village works, but you can set aside the green cards in your starting hand too.

Swindler/Peddler: If the Peddlers are likely to run out, your Swindlers could end up turning opponents' Peddlers into Provinces; otherwise they could turn their Provinces into Peddlers.

Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses

Here are two strong combos I saw recently that are probably well known, but that i had to learn about the hard way by losing to them.                           

Scheme/conspirator: simple. just get two schemes and have them topdeck themselves. Now your conspirators are always activated every turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1428010853731.txt                                 

University/watchtower: play universities to gain actions and topdeck them with watchtower. Then play the watchtower to put the gained actions into your hand and play them with the plus actions provided by university. If you gain a second watchtower and some handsize decreasing actions, you may be able to do this more than once in a turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150406/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1428344689079.txt

Quarry/Grand Market.

Not sure if this one was mentioned, but this is a combo I miss very often. With just a little bit of trashing, lining up multiple Quarries is not too hard. Then Grand Markets with the +Buy creates a very nice feedback loop.

Stables and Crossroads - one of my favorite draw engines.

Council Room/Pillage: Council Room vastly increases the potency of Pillage's attack, the chances of you hitting a hand that was bad anyways decrease quite a lot. You can also play multiple Pillages on your opponent in a turn which is much more potent as well (though that's probably only feasible with Throne Room and the like). Plus, the draw and buys that Council Room gives you help you make use of the Spoils you get.

Very few times do I consider Pillage to be a legitimate attack, but Council Room is probably the best enabler out there.

Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.

Menagerie/Warehouse: Menagerie is enabled strongly by cards that allow you to discard selectively from your hand, but Warehouse gets a special mention because it's much, much better than other cards for enabling Menagerie decks. You can draw most of your deck without Copper trashing, you can green heavily and not really stall all that much, which are things you're hard-pressed to do with other discarders.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 21, 2015, 01:14:13 pm

As promised, here is my spiel.

So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.

The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.

So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.

So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.

So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.

Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.

FYI:

I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on April 21, 2015, 01:18:44 pm
So combos that need a splitter are cool after all?

Also, you quoted Ghost Ship/Wishing Well which is a counter, not a combo.  So I am more confused about what you're looking for than before.  :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 22, 2015, 10:07:27 am
Also, you quoted Ghost Ship/Wishing Well which is a counter, not a combo.  So I am more confused about what you're looking for than before.  :P

He's looking for interactions, which cover combos, counters and also other things like Swindler/Peddler.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 22, 2015, 11:05:01 am
Inheritance/Baron is a pretty obvious, but nice, interaction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on April 22, 2015, 02:22:10 pm
Inheritance/Baron is a pretty obvious, but nice, interaction.
At first I thought:
"What? The point of Inheritance is to play your Estates. Baron discards them instead."

And then I realized:
"Ah, the point of this combo is to use Baron to gain Estates."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 22, 2015, 02:25:16 pm
Also baron makes it a lot easier to hit 7 and gives you something to do with estates before they are upgraded...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on April 22, 2015, 02:27:41 pm
Also, you know, Inheritance and Estates... neat interaction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on April 22, 2015, 05:04:04 pm
Fishing Village/Wharf is very strong, agreed, but it's a generic rather than a specific combo, yesno? It's village + terminal draw, just two expletiveing excellent examples of said types.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 22, 2015, 05:14:33 pm
Fishing Village/Wharf is very strong, agreed, but it's a generic rather than a specific combo, yesno? It's village + terminal draw, just two expletiveing excellent examples of said types.

FV/Wharf is particularly strong because it doesn't need payload, really - FV provides coin, and Wharf provides +Buy.  You really just need these cards, and maybe some Treasures.  Anything else is just gravy.  Gravy you don't mind having, but still gravy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 23, 2015, 12:26:32 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 23, 2015, 02:27:37 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on April 23, 2015, 02:31:37 am
Death Cart/Vineyard is obviously a useful card interaction.. though there are certainly many better Vineyard helpers.

Death Cart/Fairgrounds also helps a bit for hitting 15 uniques with 1 buy toward the end of the game.  Probably not so notable, though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on April 23, 2015, 02:54:27 am
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 23, 2015, 04:33:09 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

In what sense? Obviously you're not going to want to actually play the Death Carts, so it's a very late-game thing. But if you want Vineyards anyway, upgrading them by a full point for $4 and a buy is great value.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on April 23, 2015, 08:37:10 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on April 23, 2015, 08:43:18 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.

So it's a $4 somewhat-better-than-duchy. Seems reasonably good, but by no means game-shattering.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 23, 2015, 09:01:39 am
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards  games.

So it's a $4 somewhat-better-than-duchy. Seems reasonably good, but by no means game-shattering.

Yeah, I guess I was more going for "Neat and potentially useful".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on April 23, 2015, 10:16:04 am
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 23, 2015, 10:22:32 am
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.

Ball is also decent for this.  And I guess Seaway?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on April 23, 2015, 10:26:41 am
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.
Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.

Ball is also decent for this.  And I guess Seaway?

Pilgrimage as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: dondon151 on April 23, 2015, 12:26:43 pm
DC sounds like something that you'd only buy on the last turn in Vineyards games for the points or pile control.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on April 23, 2015, 01:11:56 pm
Tactician/Vault: Play double Tactician, playing one each turn, and turn all your cards into spendable money with Vault.

Vault/Grand Market: Absent handsize reduction, a single play of Vault guarantees you enough for a Grand Market.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on April 23, 2015, 01:17:26 pm
DC sounds like something that you'd only buy on the last turn in Vineyards games for the points or pile control.

no way -- i'm buying actions as soon as the vineyard pile is empty, and my top priority action with a 4 is death cart (assuming there's at least two ruins left)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on April 23, 2015, 07:46:55 pm
It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on April 23, 2015, 09:48:18 pm
It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.

Up up down down left right left right B A Start
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Flip5ide on April 26, 2015, 09:37:06 pm
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.

Feels like a nombo to me.

In what sense? Obviously you're not going to want to actually play the Death Carts, so it's a very late-game thing. But if you want Vineyards anyway, upgrading them by a full point for $4 and a buy is great value.


I mean as a strategy in and of itself it would never work be tough to make win with. You would have to consistently hit 4 (or use your DC's, which has a Trade Route-Gardens anti-synergy). Each time you buy one, which will be increasingly harder to do, you would be filling in the space between seeing your Potion with more and more Ruins.

But as a late-game interaction I can see how it would be useful. I was thinking as a "those two cards are on the board, gotta rush both piles" kind of deal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on April 26, 2015, 10:45:00 pm
It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.

Up up down down left right left right B A Start
I feel guilty for +1'ing this post...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 29, 2015, 11:17:56 am
Hermit + Coppersmith + cheap non terminal plus buy

Not as powerful as Hermit + Market Square, but still can be very powerful.  Nab Madmen, Coppersmith, and cheap non terminal plus buys (Pawn, Hamlet, Candlestick Maker, etc.).  Then do a megaturn in which you play several Coppersmiths and your non terminal plus buys.  Keep track of how many Coppersmiths you have so that you can ensure you have enough Madmen or villages or whatever to play them all, and keep track of how many buys total you will have so that you can ensure you can buy all the green cards you want.  I don't know the optimal play (when to buy a Coppersmith vs. when to gain a Madman, should you be buying coppers, etc.), but I do know it can pay off.  As with any megaturn, make sure you can end the game on it.  So maybe go for it when opponent has half the provinces and you have at least 2 Madmen in hand, or whatever.

I've executed this both successfully and very unsuccessfully.  But either way, it is fun to try, encourages careful deck tracking, and seems underrated.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on May 02, 2015, 11:31:48 pm
Some I've encountered in Adventures:

Market Square-Bonfire:  Market Square works nicely with any trasher, but the nice thing about Bonfire is it's always available, so you don't need to collide your Market Square with your trasher; you just need to collide it with $3.  I wonder how double-Market Square compares to Market Square-Silver (assuming no stronger openers are available).

Bridge/Highway/Bridge Troll/Ferry-Inheritance: Now you can inherit more expensive cards (note, however, that the cost reduction doesn't affect the cost of Inheritance itself).  Ferry is particularly effective since you don't need to collide it with your $7 hand.  As an added bonus, Estates are often free in games with cost reducers (except Ferry).  Of course, even when this combo's available, the delay might not be worth it, but it can still be very helpful on the right board (i.e., a longer game with strong $5 cards and weak $1-4 cards). 
Note that I didn't mention Princess with the other cost reducers because I imagine that would almost never be fast enough to be useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on May 03, 2015, 12:33:38 am
Ferry or Borrow guarantees opening with a $5 cost card.
Pathfinding with Magpie works pretty well. It is either an activated Menagerie (+3 cards +1 Action) or a Lab that gains you a Lab.
Inheritance counters Haunted Woods during early-game since you can play your Estates. Plus, you can save them for next turn if you want.
Treasures with effects aside from the $ they provide are very useful with Storyteller. (Quarry, Contraband, Coin of the Realm, Treasure Trove are some that come to mind.)
Distant Lands works well as a source of VP in slogs, since slogs take longer and the Distant Lands "islands" itself from your deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on May 03, 2015, 02:02:33 am
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on May 03, 2015, 02:09:30 am
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on May 03, 2015, 02:38:11 am
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 03, 2015, 02:50:39 am
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"

Right, but it's Action-Reserve-Victory, and Inheritance only works on non-Victory Action cards.

It's also too expensive without cost reduction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on May 03, 2015, 10:09:07 am
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"

Right, but it's Action-Reserve-Victory, and Inheritance only works on non-Victory Action cards.

It's also too expensive without cost reduction.
Dur... Right it says "non-Victory" doesn't it?  It's hard to remember these things without using these cards yet.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on May 03, 2015, 03:11:56 pm
Champion and Diadem work very well. It pretty much makes all +Action become +$.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aidan Millow on May 03, 2015, 04:16:32 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on May 03, 2015, 04:38:32 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

That's probably part of why Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on May 03, 2015, 04:44:59 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

That's probably part of why Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.

A big reason (I asked this during the previews) is that you'd often automatically go for Islands. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 03, 2015, 05:29:19 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on May 03, 2015, 06:09:22 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.

But the effect of the chosen card is that it's worth 0 if not on your Tavern mat at the end of that game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 03, 2015, 09:50:54 pm
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?

Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.

They would be 5/1.  Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP.  The gained effects are additions, not replacements.

But the effect of the chosen card is that it's worth 0 if not on your Tavern mat at the end of that game.

Hmmm, I would still say that that is separate from the basic 1VP it has as an Estate.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: XerxesPraelor on May 03, 2015, 10:03:27 pm
It could be worth 5-0 then, maybe?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: dondon151 on May 03, 2015, 10:42:18 pm
Since there is no official ruling on such matters, obviously there is no answer...

Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on May 03, 2015, 10:51:11 pm
Since there is no official ruling on such matters, obviously there is no answer...

Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?

This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: dondon151 on May 03, 2015, 11:52:16 pm
This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.

This is not at all obvious to me when the wording in the FAQ says "for the rest of the game, all of your Estates have the abilities and types of the set aside card." Do inherited Estates become normal Estates at the end of the game when you're counting points, or do they stay inherited Estates?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on May 04, 2015, 02:14:08 am
This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.

This is not at all obvious to me when the wording in the FAQ says "for the rest of the game, all of your Estates have the abilities and types of the set aside card." Do inherited Estates become normal Estates at the end of the game when you're counting points, or do they stay inherited Estates?
Is the score calculated at the moment the game ends, or after the game ends? Because I would figure that the "end of the game" is actually still part of the game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Donald X. on May 04, 2015, 02:47:01 am
Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?
Yes.
Title: Warrior + Champion
Post by: Elestan on May 04, 2015, 08:44:17 am
I'm withholding final judgement until I've played more games, but the combination of Warrior and its grandchild, Champion seems to be dominating the games where they appear.  There's a large first-mover advantage to getting a Champion and several Warriors, as they effectively become Laboratories with a cumulative attack.  By adding some extra Pages, I've seen 8+ cards/turn of trash milling.  The most effective counter usually seems to be to get Champion oneself, which only intensifies the rush for that pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on May 05, 2015, 03:30:41 pm
Haven and Golem: If you need Golem to make your engine work, you've probably suffered the frustrating turns where you don't draw your Golem until it isn't useful anymore. Yeah Golems are great at the start of your turn and awful at the end. Haven takes this negative and turns it into a positive. It's also a cantrip so you don't get those nasty Golem-surprises as often (LOL I'M GOING TO HIT THE ONLY TWO TERMINALZ IN UR DECK SO UR TURN IZ OVAR!!!!!)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 05, 2015, 04:46:18 pm
Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Storyteller wants excess Treasure, TT gives it to you.  But ST doesn't just want excess Treasure, it wants high-value excess Treasure, which TT still gives you.  Ordinarily, without trashing, TT might overflow an engine, but ST is able to deal with it.  Possibly you use all your Gold for draw, and then just have an unholy amount of Coppers for buying.  Or better yet, play TT with ST, giving you even more Treasures to draw!

Might need some +Buy, but that's not exactly hard to come by, and ST is non-terminal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on May 05, 2015, 11:14:03 pm
Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Man, I just posted this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13103.msg489081#msg489081).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 05, 2015, 11:41:38 pm
Just thought of this:

Storyteller/Treasure Trove:

Man, I just posted this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13103.msg489081#msg489081).

So did LastFootnote!  But I did it first.  ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on May 06, 2015, 03:01:23 pm
Has anybody mentioned IGG+Apprentice+Graverobber?

Buy one IGG, trash it with Apprentice, gain it back with Graverobber, give your opponent a kajillion curses in the process.

Only works with a pretty thin deck and a secondary strategy but...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 06, 2015, 03:06:29 pm
Has anybody mentioned IGG+Apprentice+Graverobber?

Buy one IGG, trash it with Apprentice, gain it back with Graverobber, give your opponent a kajillion curses in the process.

Only works with a pretty thin deck and a secondary strategy but...

Well, that's two separate card interactions: Graverobber + Apprentice and strong on-gain ability + Apprentice. IGG and Graverobber don't really have much of a synergy.

Also, if something requires 3 cards, then it's having a really hard time being "potentially useful". I mean, sure, it's possible that you end up playing a game with those three cards eventually if you play thousands of games, but on the other hand, it's also not too unlikely that you never will.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on May 06, 2015, 03:22:33 pm
Well I mean I was thinking more along the lines of IGG + any non-terminal and/or cost-based trashing + any gain-from-trash card. Apprentice just struck me as best because it's non-terminal and cost-based. Terminal trashers would need a village to work, which is an extra card you'd need.

The interactions can pretty much be taken on their own - IGG + cost-based trashing gives you a bigger benefit from a "glorified copper" and IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 06, 2015, 03:41:28 pm
IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".

Gaining from the trash junks your deck up just as much as gaining from the supply.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on May 06, 2015, 03:48:03 pm
IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".

Gaining from the trash junks your deck up just as much as gaining from the supply.

Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as buying a ton of copies of that card?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 06, 2015, 03:50:54 pm
Half the point of IGG is emptying the pile.  Then you just have to empty one more pile, and if you won the IGG split, you win.  Gaining the same IGG over and over again is kind of undermining that.  I could see Graverobber as possibly undermining a player who wants to rush IGGs, as a way to stall the end of the game.  But then you'd need a card to trash IGG in the first place... and yeah, not seeing it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 06, 2015, 03:56:17 pm
Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as buying a ton of copies of that card?

Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as trashing and buying a ton of copies of that card, yes. In other words, the interaction is still just IGG+Apprentice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Polk5440 on May 06, 2015, 03:58:09 pm
Half the point of IGG is emptying the pile.  Then you just have to empty one more pile, and if you won the IGG split, you win.  Gaining the same IGG over and over again is kind of undermining that.  I could see Graverobber as possibly undermining a player who wants to rush IGGs, as a way to stall the end of the game.  But then you'd need a card to trash IGG in the first place... and yeah, not seeing it.

Indeed. The relevant card combination is IGG+Duchy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on May 06, 2015, 06:15:21 pm
IGG+Mine/Taxman is decent.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: brokoli on May 24, 2015, 07:54:55 am
Crossroads + Advisor : Simply because it's very likely that advisor draws you junk. Same logic as Scout + Crossroads, but you want advisor way more often than you would want a scout.

Royal Seal (or watchtower) + Border village : Gain Border village + Any good $5 terminal draw (or a trash for benefit). And you'll have a good next turn.

Royal Seal (watchtower) + Death Cart : Topdeck the death cart and one of the two ruins. In case of watchtower, trash the second ruin.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on May 24, 2015, 11:27:07 am
Procession+Strong 5 cost terminal, gain Border Village, gain the 5 cost.
Works wonders with Torturer.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Cuzz on May 25, 2015, 06:06:01 pm
IGG-Death Cart

More strategic than tactical interaction. When rushing IGG you need a third pile to empty, usually duchies, but with death cart around there are a few advantages to going for those instead. You only need to hit 4 instead of 5, and you'll empty the Ruins pile in 2p in 5 buys instead of 8. Then death cart and a few coin in hand will often enable you to get province level money in those cases where your opponent has something going already and is a bit ahead in VP even after all the curses you've sent them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gkrieg13 on May 25, 2015, 09:25:36 pm
Treasure Trove and Apprentice make for a nice combo.  If you have two TT, then you can trash two golds a turn and get them back.  My only problem was having a way to get rid of all the coppers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on May 26, 2015, 10:42:58 am
Royal Carriage + Haunted Woods.

Although it doesn't duplicate the attack, +6 cards at the start of your turn is ridiculous for engines. I played two games where every turn I would draw my entire deck and play the other set of RC+HW each turn for massive draw and a constant attack.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on May 26, 2015, 02:56:01 pm
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: joel88s on May 26, 2015, 03:32:42 pm
Royal Carriage + Haunted Woods.

Although it doesn't duplicate the attack, +6 cards at the start of your turn is ridiculous for engines. I played two games where every turn I would draw my entire deck and play the other set of RC+HW each turn for massive draw and a constant attack.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll make some new friends soon.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 26, 2015, 03:34:06 pm
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: joel88s on May 26, 2015, 03:37:57 pm
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.

Yeah, that's what he said: You're quite happy losing the Spoils since you'd be trashing it anyway. ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on May 27, 2015, 05:24:37 pm
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.

Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.

Ah right. Even better; you don't have to worry about the pile running out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on May 28, 2015, 07:48:08 am
Mint - Platinum?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jack Rudd on May 29, 2015, 01:11:08 pm
Mint - Platinum?
Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on May 29, 2015, 03:21:14 pm
Mint - Platinum?
Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
And on a Platinum board those could get you to $9 quickly
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Elanchana on May 29, 2015, 04:34:43 pm
On the flip side, Mine + cost reducer can get those Coppers into Platina or other fun treasures in no time flat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on June 03, 2015, 02:20:57 pm
King's Court - Scheme
Lets you put the KC, Scheme, and another action back on top every turn.

Similar can be said about Thrown Room - Scheme, but doesn't let you put a third action back.

These are especially useful when there are no villages in the kingdom but you want to play multiple terminals.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Burning Skull on June 04, 2015, 08:26:17 am
These are especially useful when there are no villages in the kingdom but you want to play multiple terminals.

...like Counting House Storeroom engine :)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on June 04, 2015, 11:22:53 am
I think Cultist and Scheme have an interesting relationship. By "interesting" I'm talking the same type of interesting as Minion and Tunnel -- I often say that if these two cards' relationship was on facebook, it would be listed as "It's Complicated".

Scheme enables engines on Cultist boards where they otherwise might not be strong enough. Usually on Cultist boards the junking is too much, too fast, and you just end up playing Cultist+BM and being sad, but with Scheme you can top-deck Villages or other goodies and have an engine that's reliable enough to compete sometimes. Building that engine is very difficult, though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 04, 2015, 11:24:10 am
I think Cultist and Scheme have an interesting relationship. By "interesting" I'm talking the same type of interesting as Minion and Tunnel -- I often say that if these two cards' relationship was on facebook, it would be listed as "It's Complicated".

Scheme enables engines on Cultist boards where they otherwise might not be strong enough. Usually on Cultist boards the junking is too much, too fast, and you just end up playing Cultist+BM and being sad, but with Scheme you can top-deck Villages or other goodies and have an engine that's reliable enough to compete sometimes. Building that engine is very difficult, though.

If you can Scheme two Cultists a turn, you're going to wreck. Sadly, you can draw Schemes dead, but if you have an extra village to burn every turn, that won't be an issue. And scheme can help with that.

I think even buying a single scheme on an off turn where you can't afford Cultist *might* be better than your second or third silver.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on June 15, 2015, 04:20:57 pm
Haven - Baron
Haven - Treasure Map

Haven - Anything that is bad by itself but good if you have a certain other card to pair it with
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 15, 2015, 05:25:25 pm
Haven - 2nd Terminal
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on June 15, 2015, 08:45:47 pm
Pathfinding + Magpie

Turns them into either an activated Menagerie or a Lab that gains you another Lab.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Sidsel on June 17, 2015, 04:58:39 pm
Plan+Caravan
Increase and improve draw in one fell swoop.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on July 27, 2015, 02:54:13 pm
Cultist/Trade Route for the end game.

At the end game it is likely that the Ruins would have run out and some victory cards would have been bought. Cultists can no longer attack, so you can trash them with Trade Route to draw 3 cards, get a plus buy and some money.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 27, 2015, 06:17:49 pm
Treasure Trove and Spice Merchant/Moneylender/Stables

You'll never run out of fuel for money trashing for benefit. Ever.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: belugawhale on July 27, 2015, 10:36:16 pm
2x(KC+Scavenger+Gold/Silver) gets a province every turn, and 2x(KC+Scavenger+Platinum) gets a colony every turn, both extremely consistently.

Also Storyteller+Miser makes for a ridiculous amount of draw.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on July 27, 2015, 10:37:23 pm
I just had a good come-from-behind with Duke-Duplicate.  It was a Colony board with strong engine potential, so no one was interested in Duchies.  When I saw I was behind, I began accumulating Duplicates with gainers (storing them on my Tavern mat), then on the last turn I used them to gain a bunch of Dukes and Duchies and make up for a 4-Colony deficit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ancientcampus on July 28, 2015, 01:07:15 pm
I just had a good come-from-behind with Duke-Duplicate.  It was a Colony board with strong engine potential, so no one was interested in Duchies.  When I saw I was behind, I began accumulating Duplicates with gainers (storing them on my Tavern mat), then on the last turn I used them to gain a bunch of Dukes and Duchies and make up for a 4-Colony deficit.
That looks like a lot of fun. I'm gonna have to try that sometime. I guess it would prefer an engine - but maybe it could work with just a chapel? (Trim your deck to Chapel/Silver/Silver/Copper/Nothing)

Edit: upon trying it solo it seems that a "Chapel-Duplicate-Duke" so-called "golden deck" will need a little more help, at least from a village. I tried it once and started buying and playing duplicates consistently around turn 9. I don't have any numbers for how fast Duke decks need to be, but this seems a little slow. If you start adding +action and gainers, though, it can get to be scary-fast.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on July 28, 2015, 06:10:56 pm
Nice, I'm glad you like it.  I'm not sure a golden deck would work, though, since you need to buy (or otherwise gain) both a Duke and a Duchy on the turn you go off, so having $5 isn't enough.  Something like Remake-Ironworks-Ironworks-Duplicate-Duplicate-Village would probably work (Ironworks-ing a Duplicate and a Village if you don't draw your Village, and Remaking the Ironworkses into a Duke and a Duchy on the final turn), but that's probably too narrow to come up much outside of a constructed Kingdom (even if you count variants using other gainers).  It would be fun on a constructed Kingdom though (ideally with other non-obvious combos that were roughly equal in power).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ancientcampus on July 29, 2015, 08:00:07 am
Right, that would be a problem, wouldn't it. Still, the combo as a general idea has style, so I'll keep an eye out for it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: shmeur on August 04, 2015, 12:36:24 am
I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on August 04, 2015, 01:09:52 am
I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: shmeur on August 04, 2015, 02:21:39 am
I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy.  My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver.  He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him).  Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.
Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
Yeah he opened Ironmonger instead.  Still was a cool interaction.  He didn't even buy a Cultist either (just Mountebanks, Ironmongers, and a Possession a little too late).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ancientcampus on August 04, 2015, 10:39:46 am
Mine + Ill-Gotten Gains. Mine silvers and IGGs into more IGGs.

I haven't run this in a simulator, but in a IGG rush I'm pretty sure it's worth buying after your first IGG, if you have at least one silver in your deck. Hitting mine in the same hand as a silver or IGG is likely to result in 2 IGG gains that turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on August 04, 2015, 11:02:52 am
Mine + Ill-Gotten Gains. Mine silvers and IGGs into more IGGs.

I haven't run this in a simulator, but in a IGG rush I'm pretty sure it's worth buying after your first IGG, if you have at least one silver in your deck. Hitting mine in the same hand as a silver or IGG is likely to result in 2 IGG gains that turn.

Sounds nice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on August 17, 2015, 11:59:59 pm
1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Action.
4) Profit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on August 18, 2015, 05:58:04 am
1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Action.
4) Profit.

Woah, you can do that!?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Eevee on August 18, 2015, 10:02:08 am
1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3) ?????? Gain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Action.
4) Profit.

Woah, you can do that!?

No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on August 18, 2015, 10:20:23 am
"Hey guys, i'm Procession. Ask me what a Band of Misfits i played costs, and i will find it anywhere, be it trash, your hand, Island or Tavern Mat, whatever, to look at its price and tell you. What, wait, i'm supposed to move it? Sorry, no idea where it is."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on August 18, 2015, 11:21:25 am
"Hey guys, i'm Procession. Ask me what a Band of Misfits i played costs, and i will find it anywhere, be it trash, your hand, Island or Tavern Mat, whatever, to look at its price and tell you. What, wait, i'm supposed to move it? Sorry, no idea where it is."

"I have a psychic connection.  Like all psychics, I'm a fraud, and have no idea what I'm doing."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on September 09, 2015, 02:42:56 pm
Fairgrounds - Black Market
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Sidsel on September 10, 2015, 03:07:43 am
Transmogrify + Treasure Map
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on October 10, 2015, 02:48:22 pm
Three cards, so not really a combo, but

Open Armory/Loan
If you're lucky enough for them to collide at any point (the earlier the better), play Armory to gain a Tunnel.
Play Loan

Wheee!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on October 11, 2015, 12:10:51 am
Three cards, so not really a combo, but

Open Armory/Loan
If you're lucky enough for them to collide at any point (the earlier the better), play Armory to gain a Tunnel.
Play Loan

Wheee!

And then your Loan can hit the Gold you gained, because Loan never hits Copper!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Burning Skull on October 12, 2015, 04:26:09 am
Bureaucrat/Loan is even better
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on October 12, 2015, 08:23:11 am
Bureaucrat/Loan is even better

Obviously Bureaucrat/X is better than not-Bureaucrat/X. It's the most powerful card in Dominion.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 13, 2015, 02:16:33 am
Trader-Cache
Not THAT neat, but better than just Cache by itself.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Kirian on October 13, 2015, 03:59:12 am
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)

Trader-Cache
Not THAT neat, but better than just Cache by itself.

Of course, Watchtower/Cache is even better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theJester on October 13, 2015, 05:24:59 am
One that I like is Graverobber/Border Village.

1. Gain Graverobber with BV
2. Trash BV (3$ card in play) for Province
3. Gaining from BV also provides fuel for Graverobber to turn into Provinces
4. Regain BV from trash and gain another cheaper card along with it
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 13, 2015, 12:02:55 pm
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2015, 12:14:16 pm
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on October 13, 2015, 12:16:39 pm
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.

What if MV itself causes the reshuffle? ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2015, 12:18:44 pm
So really it's

+1 Action, +$4, place in discard pile after playing.

Though if you play it again in the same turn you need another Rogue to make it that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2015, 12:19:54 pm
Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.

What if MV itself causes the reshuffle? ;)

I'm talking about the next shuffle, obviously.  If there is a shuffle after playing Mining Village and before your cleanup phase, The Mining Village that was trashed and gained from Rogue will be included, but anything in play will not.

Edit: Oh, but, right.  A Silver would not have caused the shuffle that Mining Village did.  Well, edge case to an edge case I guess.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 13, 2015, 07:11:03 pm
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

I didn't say it was the exact same, I said it was
not all that much different than
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 14, 2015, 11:56:34 am
Scrying Pool - Swindler
Scrying Pool - Saboteur
Scrying Pool - Jester

etc.
(Ok, what doesn't go well with Scrying Pool?)

EDIT: I mention Scrying Pool here instead of, say, Spy or Oracle because SP is just so reliable for attacks like this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on October 15, 2015, 05:27:38 am
Plus Oracle is *another* terminal so it wouldn't work in an interaction in isolation.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 15, 2015, 01:09:39 pm
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue.  Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame.  With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue.  (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)
Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4.  So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers.  Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.

What?  Mining Village draws a card.  Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash).  Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.

Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable.  Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.

I didn't say it was the exact same, I said it was
not all that much different than

Mining Village: Action, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)

Reveal a rogue from your hand. If you do, +1 action, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) and put this card in your discard. Otherwise, +1 card, +2 actions and you may immediately trash this card for +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 20, 2015, 01:53:04 pm
IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 20, 2015, 01:58:22 pm
IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.

Given a board where IGG Rush is the best option, Coppersmith in the long run looks better than a lot of $4 cost cards. In the initial shuffle or two it isn't that great - not better than Silver at getting IGGs, but what it makes up for later is boosting to Province without completely clogging your deck with Copper. Cool idea.

I had a board which had me with no choice but to play Bishop and IGG. It's obviously an awful pair in the sense that your opponent gets to trash Curses for free, but getting 3 points in exchange for an IGG trash without even necessarily losing economy that turn is rather nice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 01, 2015, 09:18:48 am
You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on November 01, 2015, 09:30:11 am
You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, right?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Donald X. on November 01, 2015, 09:50:38 am
You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn).  Infinite card draw.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, right?
It works in the sense of being within the rules.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Davio on November 01, 2015, 10:40:21 am
IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.

Given a board where IGG Rush is the best option, Coppersmith in the long run looks better than a lot of $4 cost cards. In the initial shuffle or two it isn't that great - not better than Silver at getting IGGs, but what it makes up for later is boosting to Province without completely clogging your deck with Copper. Cool idea.

I had a board which had me with no choice but to play Bishop and IGG. It's obviously an awful pair in the sense that your opponent gets to trash Curses for free, but getting 3 points in exchange for an IGG trash without even necessarily losing economy that turn is rather nice.
IGG-Duchy games are often decided on one player hitting a lucky Province or 2. With Coppersmith or 2, spiking such a Province is obviously easier. I doubt whether always getting the free Copper is optimal as opposed to only picking the Coppers when you need to hit $5/$8.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 02, 2015, 04:22:52 am
I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 02, 2015, 10:15:58 am
With cost reduction, Summon Distant Lands.  Can also Summon Islands without the cost reduction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on November 02, 2015, 10:20:15 am
With cost reduction, Summon Distant Lands.  Can also Summon Islands without the cost reduction.

The Distant Lands can be a fun gamble. If the game ends before your next turn, you don't get the points!

Summoning Islands is a big risk (unless your deck is still mostly Estates and Coppers).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 02, 2015, 10:58:59 am
I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...
Wine Merhant isn't unreasonable at all for games with expensive components you want quickly, such as King's Court or Forge or especially Grand Market. The card is also less bad than it looks when you have more than one of them, as the same $2 can free all of your Wine Merchants at once. I think it is a bit underrated. I would have rated it above a lot of garbage $5s if I actually got around to filling out my poll this year :(
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 02, 2015, 10:07:12 pm
Play 4 Highways, buy Messenger, give everyone a Province.  Make sure you're ahead, and win the game quicker.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 03, 2015, 05:37:50 am
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gamesou on November 03, 2015, 06:03:54 am
Ferry/Band of Misfits is interesting. First put the -$2 token on the BoM, and later move it to another $6 (Goons!!) or $5 action pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on November 03, 2015, 06:24:48 am
Ferry/Band of Misfits is interesting. First put the -$2 token on the BoM, and later move it to another $6 (Goons!!) or $5 action pile.

what is the advantage to putting it on the misfits first?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gamesou on November 03, 2015, 06:47:20 am
what is the advantage to putting it on the misfits first?

Well, to buy them cheaper ! This way you can buy Goons for $3, sort of.

Opening Ferry/BoM on a Chapel board seems also interesting.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 03, 2015, 08:38:47 am
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 03, 2015, 10:09:11 am
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.

I know that is what the rules say, but I don't understand this semantically. The card doesn't say "if you do" anywhere, so I don't see why failing to gain something affects what your opponents gain. I'm sure I'm just reading the card wrong, and obviously the rules trump my semantic reading of the card text.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on November 03, 2015, 10:26:23 am
This is a blue dog situation isn't it?

Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it"

The question becomes: What is "it"?

Well, "it" is the card you gained. However, if are about to gain a card and Trader jumps in and makes that not happen, replacing the gain with its own Silver gain, now "it" (the card you gained) doesn't exist.

You could argue that "it" is the card you chose to gain, but to be consistent with the Ironworks/Trader ruling, "it" has to be the card you gained. If you didn't gain the card Messenger tried to give out, "it" doesn't exist, and your opponents gain nothing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 03, 2015, 10:49:16 am
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Blue_dog_rule
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 04, 2015, 05:39:47 am
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.

Oh man. I was specifically looking for a "If you do" and must say the wording makes it appear you don't have to actually gain it. Or at least, it's not easy to tell.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on November 04, 2015, 01:32:12 pm
Stonemason (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Stonemason) on the board heavily mitigates the drawback of Contraband (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Contraband). Block key engine part? I'll just buy Stonemason and get two. Block Stonemason? With +$3 and a buy, I can still probably double-buy what I wanted anyway.

As ehunt pointed out, you can Stonemason the Contraband into something more useful once it's served its purpose.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on November 05, 2015, 12:21:00 pm
Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 05, 2015, 04:20:24 pm
Artificer + Pathfinding

There's no doubt that an extra +1 card makes Artificer an absolute beast - at worst it's a Lab + Peddler, and a large hand is exactly what the discard-for-gain effect wants. You can start off using Artificers to gain more Artificers, and once you've hit $8 pretty soon you'll be getting double-Province turns.

I'm not sure how strong this is compared to Pathfinding a cheaper cantrip. I played this unopposed recently against a solid Venture deck and won narrowly.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on November 05, 2015, 04:34:24 pm
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on November 05, 2015, 05:16:54 pm
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on November 05, 2015, 06:10:36 pm
Alms + artificer = discard hand for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card on deck and (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) cost.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: thespaceinvader on November 06, 2015, 04:35:59 am
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
Also, in an IGG game you probably don't want to trash the copper anyway, since you're probably rushing IGG/Duchy or some other alt-VP, so you only need your deck to average 1 per card and it's likely to be picking up lots of curses...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on November 06, 2015, 04:45:01 am
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gamesou on November 06, 2015, 05:32:35 am
Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: pubby on November 06, 2015, 06:15:29 am
Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.
Nice.

Moat, Haven, Save, Crossroads, or Courtyard could be even better than curse though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 06, 2015, 08:12:47 am
I'm very sure this isn't the first time anyone's noticed this, but Herald is a phenomenal Ghost Ship counter.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on November 06, 2015, 08:19:28 am
Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 06, 2015, 08:47:19 am
Ferry + Stonemason

Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0!  Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins!  Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?

Edge case: You want to overpay for additional Stonemasons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 06, 2015, 08:56:26 am
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains

You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.

That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.

Salvager/IGG works better.  Or Bishop/IGG.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 06, 2015, 08:58:50 am
Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 06, 2015, 10:55:48 am
Lost Arts + Gear - Sure this general concept works with any draw card, but a $3 Laboratory that sets aside Victory cards (to avoid dead draws) or even other Gear (for insurance) is extremely potent.

Gear is probably my favorite card in Dominion at the moment.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on November 06, 2015, 02:32:58 pm
Alms + Mint/Mandarin:  Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.

Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy):  Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms.  Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.

Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
i think mint/remake is the best opening in the game:
your dumb opponent opened mountebank/chapel (what is this, 2013?) and you opened mint/remake; turn three you remake the mint in to a bv/mountebank and an estate into a menage and then alms a worker's village and he chapel-trashes fewer coppers than you did when you were like two turns old; your parents always knew you were ahead of the pack. turn four you menage right off the bat, keeping in mind your deck has like 6 differently named cards out of 8 and then not only mountebank but also remake your border village into a king's court and maybe an estate into anoth-gerie. you're set up to king's court a mountebank on turn 5, like, half the time.

turn 6 is necessarily spent putting out the resulting electrical fire
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Heisenberg on November 08, 2015, 03:53:59 am
Bureaucrat/Jester: Requires no/poor trashing.  I bought plenty of wandering minstrels and warehouses in a game to pull this off.  The only trasher was trade route.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: liopoil on November 19, 2015, 05:05:17 pm
Diadem/Black Market: Now you can get coins for your actions and use them too! (Surprised I haven't seen this posted anywhere before).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 20, 2015, 12:34:42 pm
Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png), you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on November 20, 2015, 12:41:02 pm
Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon

I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC.  Then on your next turn you get +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png), you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.

That might be the best use of summon in a two card, one event kingdom of Watchtower, death cart and summon.

OTOH, in practice it may not be optimal in a random kingdom for another thousand years or so.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on November 20, 2015, 12:54:46 pm
What are the probabilities that two cards and a particular event show up, given that events are used?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 01:09:39 pm
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 01:13:19 pm
With promos

10/257 * 9/256 * 8/255 = 1/23301 games


Edit: for funsies, current probability of any given 10 card set: 1 / 290,114,720,000,000,000
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 20, 2015, 01:18:29 pm
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 01:20:33 pm
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on November 20, 2015, 01:23:55 pm
I thought that events were officially supposed to be mixed in with all the other randomizers.  If you draw one, you use it and replace it with another kingdom card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 01:25:50 pm
I was under this impression as well.

The wiki's event preparation notes seem to agree as well:

Preparation

    Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).



This actually makes it a lot harder to calculate the odds of a specific event occuring, since you'd have to calculate the odds that an event is in the top 10 cards, and also the odds that that event is the one you're looking for. Maybe I'll try to work on this here for a bit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 20, 2015, 01:26:16 pm
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1.  720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.

(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.

Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that.  It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.

And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.

I based myself on the wiki:
Quote
     Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.
    Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
    For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
    Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
    Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).
But I skipped the recommendation, just as I skipped the recommendation about Potion-cost cards. (ok, ok, I'm lazy).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 20, 2015, 01:37:18 pm
Let me explain how I think.

Drawing an Event doesn't decrease the number of Kingdom Cards you draw. Having drawn a specific Kingdom card doesn't decrease the probability that you'll draw (or that you have already drawn) a specific Event. In short, they are what I suspect statisticians call indipendent events (lowecase).

How did I come to that number?
(10/totalcards+1) is another product of my spaghetti statistics. In a deck of 250 Kingdom cards, there are 251 slots where events can hide between real cards: 249 recesses between cards, plus the top and the bottom.
You'll visit 10 of these recesses when you're setting up the game, and include all the events you'll find there. The probability that a specific event is in one og those 10 recesses is of course 10/251.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. :)

Edit: readability, mostly
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on November 20, 2015, 01:51:02 pm
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 02:16:39 pm
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law? 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 20, 2015, 02:21:46 pm
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%

Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?
, or, like the Alchemy recommendation, comes from somebody else entirely?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on November 20, 2015, 02:23:16 pm
Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?

Recommended by the Adventures rulebook, I believe, and presumably it will be the implementation in random games on Making Fun. It's also standard in the randomizer app I use, and probably other apps as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 20, 2015, 02:40:28 pm
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.

Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).

I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):

0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
This, if I'm not wrong, gives:
0.355*1/20+0.21*2/20=3.875% chance of drawing a specific event as the only event or as one of the first two events.
This gives a 0.4% deviation from the unadjusted value of 10/236.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Ampharos on November 20, 2015, 03:02:20 pm
Okay, we'll go with limiting them to 2 since it makes things easier.  I ran some numbers, and chances of 1 event: 35.66%, and chances of 2 events: 22.38%, which are really close to jonts numbers. 

We're looking for one specific event.
Odds of it happening in a 1 event game times odds of a 1 event game = 4.7% * .35 = 1.67%
Odds of it happening in a 2 event game times odds of a 2 event game = 9.5% * .22 = 2.1%

Add them together, and you get the odds of a specific event occurring in any game = 3.77%

Odds of any two kingdom cards occurring in the same game: 90/55460 = .16%

Multiply them, and you get .00611792% or 1/16,399

This is a lot closer to your method's result, Accatitippi.

-----------

I'm probably still messing up, but at least it's fun.  ::)

Real answer: MANY MANY GAMES
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on November 20, 2015, 03:20:03 pm
This is funny because you don't actually need Summon to make Watchtower/Death Cart work. Summon only makes it slightly better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on November 20, 2015, 03:28:31 pm
I don't think the combo works anyway. The Ruins visit the discard pile, covering Death Cart and invoking the lose-track rule. It should definitely work with Trader, though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on November 20, 2015, 03:39:32 pm
Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Donald X. on November 20, 2015, 03:59:21 pm
Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?

Recommended by the Adventures rulebook, I believe, and presumably it will be the implementation in random games on Making Fun. It's also standard in the randomizer app I use, and probably other apps as well.
It's a recommendation; I don't remember what led to it but for sure I was involved.

I will recommend that MF provide both "shuffle them into the randomizer" and "have a separate deck of Events and deal out 1-2 every game."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on November 20, 2015, 04:45:19 pm
Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.

I would say this is not incredibly noteworthy.  Yes, Taxman likes treasures in your hand.  But you can get them into your hand with anything -- Lab, Governor, Tactician, etc.  It's kind of like saying Scrying Pool synergizes with Great Hall -- ya, it does, I guess, but it's nothing I'm going to write home about.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: A Ladder on November 20, 2015, 05:25:10 pm
Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.

To piggyback on this...
Countinghouse/Stables The coppers you pitch to Stables will come right back into your hand! Also helps by digging for the Countinghouse and cycling your deck faster.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on November 22, 2015, 12:11:02 pm
This combo came up during UConn. Adam used it to win.

Trader/Save (Also, Moat/Save, which is probably even better.)

To have endless protection from attacks, never play your reaction. Instead, spend 1 coin to save it at the end of every turn.  With trader, this is a viable big-money strategy in the face of junkers. With trader, watch out for pillage!!!

Any other UConnbos?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Voltaire on November 22, 2015, 07:06:53 pm
This combo came up during UConn. Adam used it to win.

Ah, the perils of being less famous.  ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 22, 2015, 10:55:50 pm
When Possessing someone, turn all their Disciples into Teachers, and all their Warriors into Heroes.  This is provided they already have a Teacher or Champion, of course.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on November 23, 2015, 10:29:27 am
Trader/Save (Also, Moat/Save, which is probably even better.)

DEPENDS ON THE KINGDOM LOL
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on November 23, 2015, 10:30:26 am
Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ben_king on November 23, 2015, 11:25:11 am
Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.

Along those same lines, you could probably also Prince a Transmogrify and have it be pretty good, though I've never actually tried this.  Since it's the start of your turn when you play it, you can call it back right away and discard it every turn (I think Prince should still be able to set it aside even though it was on the Tavern Mat instantaneously).  It would be similar in spirit one of those Procession-based engines, I guess.  On some boards, it might be great, but a lot of times, there's probably something better to Prince.

Edit: :( I guess we'll just have to stick with Summon + Transmogrify
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on November 23, 2015, 11:32:39 am
Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.

Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.

Along those same lines, you could probably also Prince a Transmogrify and have it be pretty good, though I've never actually tried this.  Since it's the start of your turn when you play it, you can call it back right away and discard it every turn (I think Prince should still be able to set it aside even though it was on the Tavern Mat instantaneously).  It would be similar in spirit one of those Procession-based engines, I guess.  On some boards, it might be great, but a lot of times, there's probably something better to Prince.

This doesn't work, unfortunately. Prince loses track.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on November 24, 2015, 08:26:54 am
I don't know how well known these combos already are, but they haven't been mentioned here:

Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

Inheritance/Followers No longer do you have a crippling attack that self-junks you, but a crippling attack which gains you a nice card on top. The only problem is having to hit eight and seven once, but the combo is still great when you inherit something after playing followers a few times (or the lovely 7$ hands before hitting Province, obviously)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on November 24, 2015, 08:45:33 am
I don't know how well known these combos already are, but they haven't been mentioned here:

Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

Inheritance/Followers No longer do you have a crippling attack that self-junks you, but a crippling attack which gains you a nice card on top. The only problem is having to hit eight and seven once, but the combo is still great when you inherit something after playing followers a few times (or the lovely 7$ hands before hitting Province, obviously)

I'm pretty sure Followers is a combo unto itself. Once you have it, you win.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on November 24, 2015, 10:39:25 am
I'm pretty sure Followers is a combo unto itself. Once you have it, you win.

Only when the kingdom is weak. In strong kingdoms, it's not even worth getting always.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on November 24, 2015, 02:09:06 pm
Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.

This can be a great combo, but also a trap if you're not careful. Bridge Troll does absolutely nothing to help you reach $5 to buy Ball (because it doesn't lower the cost of Events). Many times I bought a Bridge Troll early and then waited for another $5 hand that never came (or came too late). Make sure you have the real economy to make the combo actually work.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 25, 2015, 12:20:09 am
Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on November 25, 2015, 01:05:44 am
Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.

I would say that is neat, but it it must be compared to opportunity cost.  Moat and SC are both generally bad $2 cards, and attack cards that are worth buying are (obviously I'm generalizing here) usually good cads.  So getting the Moat and SC in the first place (much less having enough of each of them to reliably connect in the manner you describe) should be compared to having other better cards instead.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: managore on November 25, 2015, 03:19:07 am
Secret Chamber/Moat

Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.

I would say that is neat, but it it must be compared to opportunity cost.  Moat and SC are both generally bad $2 cards, and attack cards that are worth buying are (obviously I'm generalizing here) usually good cads.  So getting the Moat and SC in the first place (much less having enough of each of them to reliably connect in the manner you describe) should be compared to having other better cards instead.

An unlikely but neat case is when your opponent is consistently playing one attack card and you're not drawing any cards. You can continuously nullify the attack and topdeck both cards for next turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on November 27, 2015, 10:26:01 am
Poor house/hamlet
Open hamlet/hamlet
Get one poorhouse second shuffle, also get more hamlets
Buy 1-3 moor poorhouses third shuffle also get more hamlets
Play hamlets to  discards treasures play two poorhouses buy province
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: A Ladder on November 27, 2015, 12:01:18 pm
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 27, 2015, 12:05:38 pm
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

I think you mean Ratcatcher/Guide.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on November 27, 2015, 12:11:38 pm
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

I think you mean Ratcatcher/Guide.
Unless you're gaining Tunnels with Transmogrify, but that's a three-card interaction.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 27, 2015, 12:20:33 pm
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

The whole point of Transmogrify is that you get to use what you upgrade into right away. You can't trash and gain nothing with Transmogrify (excluding the edge case of an empty Copper and Curse pile).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: A Ladder on November 27, 2015, 04:31:56 pm
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.

The whole point of Transmogrify is that you get to use what you upgrade into right away. You can't trash and gain nothing with Transmogrify (excluding the edge case of an empty Copper and Curse pile).

Well we played that card completely wrong last night  :-[. I'm going to pretend that we used ratcatcher in my memories instead...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on November 27, 2015, 05:03:44 pm
Ratcatcher(Transmogrify)/market square

Wait until you have market square in hand
Call Ratcatcher(Transmogrify) for free gold
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on November 28, 2015, 01:57:20 am
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on November 28, 2015, 04:23:53 am
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

I believe this thread is intended for card interactions that can actually be useful in practice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 28, 2015, 06:52:49 am
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

Watchtower/Messenger/Scout
Allows you to buy a Messenger and give each opponent a Scout. It's a three-card-interaction, but sooooooo nasty.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on November 28, 2015, 09:42:47 am
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.

I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.

Watchtower/Messenger/Scout
Allows you to buy a Messenger and give each opponent a Scout. It's a three-card-interaction, but sooooooo nasty.

You'd think Curse would be better for this, but Curse can at least be drawn by Vagrant!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on November 28, 2015, 09:54:11 am
You'd think Curse would be better for this, but Curse can at least be drawn by Vagrant!

And discarded for Mountebank, skipped by Sage and Golem, and trashed for less benefit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on November 28, 2015, 10:02:31 am
Also, it's much more likely that the Curse pile is empty than that the Scout pile is.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on November 28, 2015, 12:10:53 pm
Madman + Expedition
Increase your starting handsize so that your Madman draws more cards.  Plus, because Expedition isn't a card, you can buy it and get a Madman on the same turn.

I was thinking about what the best supporting card was for the Hermit + Market Square combo.  I realized that, by buying Expedition on the turn before the megaturn, one only needs to play two Madmen to fully draw a deck of 24 cards (instead of the usual three).  This saves about two turns in the best case scenario.  Best-case solitaire log:

Code: [Select]
1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
7: SHE_MCCCE - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: SSSHC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: SHCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
10: _MMMMHHS - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (45 coins)

Madman + Mission is also worth mentioning.  You can gain a Madman on the turn you buy mission and the mission turn itself.  In practice, it's unlikely to get 4 coins every other turn in a Hermit + Market Square combo.  It is theoretically possible to reach the megaturn on turn 9, though.

Code: [Select]
1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEE_H - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
7: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: MHCCC - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: _SSHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEECC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: MMMSC - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (48 coins)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: bedlam on November 28, 2015, 01:35:19 pm
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on November 28, 2015, 10:17:26 pm
menagerie/poor house
both of these want you to play your cards in a kinda weird order and generally avoid treasures, and you can juggle both of these with sorta the same amount of brainpower combined as each individually. pretty good deal
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on November 29, 2015, 08:40:37 am
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 29, 2015, 10:37:09 am
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Infthitbox on November 29, 2015, 04:59:22 pm
Walled Village / Wine Merchant

Played a game over the weekend in meatspace where I had 2 Walled Villages and several Wine Merchants. Every turn, I would play both Walled Villages, play 2-3 Wine Merchants, and then since Wine Merchant goes on the Tavern mat and then (usually in this game) straight back to the discard pile, I was able to top both Walled Villages every turn and keep playing all my Wine Merchants when they arrived.

Was pretty good in a kingdom with not a whole lot else going on.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on November 30, 2015, 07:18:41 am
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.
Ball serves as Psuedo + buy
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on November 30, 2015, 08:13:59 am
This isn't even subtle or remotely not-obvious, but have you ever played with Pathfinding + Magpie? It's crazy. Magpie becomes a Lab that either draws 3 cards, or draws you 2 cards and gives you another super-Laboratory for free. Magpie has great synergy with any of the counter Events, but Pathfinding is especially potent.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on November 30, 2015, 09:26:34 am
Border Village + Butcher

Buy Border Village, Gain Butcher.  Use Butcher to trash Border Village, Gain another Border Village, another 5-cost card, and 2 coin tokens!  Later in the game, use Butcher to turn the Border Villages and 5-cost cards into Provinces and Duchies.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 30, 2015, 10:37:08 am
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.
Ball serves as Psuedo + buy
Sorry I didn't realise you were still referring to ball. -.-'
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on November 30, 2015, 05:53:41 pm
These are both speculative, but they seem promising.

Cultist + Save

A Cultist chain is a great way to draw a bunch of other action cards you can't play!  Normally, to play other action cards after Cultist, you need to lead with a village.  But it takes a lot of villages to reliably open with a village.  It's really sad to open with no village, play a bunch of Cultists and draw a village (and other action cards).  Well, with Save and a couple villages, you only need to experience this sadness once; simply save the unplayed village for your next turn!  Rinse and repeat for a decent engine fueled off of Cultist's draw.

Cultist + Coin of the Realm

Or, even better, grab a couple Coins of the Realm.  Because they're treasures, you can play them after a Cultist chain.  On the next turn, you can play your Cultist chain and call Coin of the Realm if you have any other actions you want to play.  Play your second Coin of the Realm and you're in a great position!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on December 01, 2015, 07:27:53 pm
These are both speculative, but they seem promising.

Cultist + Save

A Cultist chain is a great way to draw a bunch of other action cards you can't play!  Normally, to play other action cards after Cultist, you need to lead with a village.  But it takes a lot of villages to reliably open with a village.  It's really sad to open with no village, play a bunch of Cultists and draw a village (and other action cards).  Well, with Save and a couple villages, you only need to experience this sadness once; simply save the unplayed village for your next turn!  Rinse and repeat for a decent engine fueled off of Cultist's draw.

Cultist + Coin of the Realm

Or, even better, grab a couple Coins of the Realm.  Because they're treasures, you can play them after a Cultist chain.  On the next turn, you can play your Cultist chain and call Coin of the Realm if you have any other actions you want to play.  Play your second Coin of the Realm and you're in a great position!

Haven, Fishing Village, Scheme, Courtyard, Mandarin, and Gear can all do this too.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: XerxesPraelor on December 01, 2015, 08:14:00 pm
Courtyard just makes the village-less problem worse, and so does haven, as it can't be played first without nerfing your current hand.

Fishing village is a better than average village for cultist for the reasons above, but the rest of those aren't nearly as good as Save or Coin of the Realm, which don't require actions to use.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gamesou on December 04, 2015, 03:33:40 am
Bonfire + Hunting grounds

On your last turn, buy 6VP for $3.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 04, 2015, 08:52:52 am
Bonfire + Hunting grounds

On your last turn, buy 6VP for $3.
Cool.  Bonfire + Squire might also be a decent way to get expensive attacks like Goons, Familiar, and Scrying Pool.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on December 05, 2015, 05:28:33 am
Training + Scheme.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on December 05, 2015, 08:41:20 pm
Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 05, 2015, 08:55:43 pm
Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme

I think you guys just came up with treasury and alchemist.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on December 07, 2015, 05:13:29 am
Training + Scheme.
Better: pathfinding +scheme

I think you guys just came up with treasury and alchemist.

Uh, no. Maybe I should have elaborated a little more on how training+scheme works, but there's three substantial differences to "treasury-BM":

- it's easier to get 5 schemes and training than 5 treasuries
- putting itself on top is just the default strategy, scheme additionally has the competence to chose another card whenever it's better
- scheme stays on deck while greening

It's mostly the latter that makes it a legit combo. Even without any support, the plan is quite simple: Get some silvers, some schemes, training on your first 6$, go green. Example given: 5 schemes + 3 silvers + training -> you start every hand with 5$ + 5 random cards and will likely hit a province per turn. Assume that you fail once, you'll have 4 provs in 14 turns. That's not terrific, but it beats smithy-bm. Also, it can be improved easily with e.g. a gainer, +buy, an estate trasher, a terminal silver, outpost ...
Sure, it's not the best combo ever if you get 4 provs in 12 to 14 turns, but it's decent. And unless there's some handsize attacks, scheme+training is extremely reliable while greening. Treasury isn't ;)










Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on December 07, 2015, 07:35:02 am
Gear + Tournament

So you want a gear for every ~7-8 cards in your deck, right? And you want Tournament to collide with a Province? With Gear you expand the range of cards Tournament collides with from 4 to 11; two more on the Gear draw and 5 more next turn. It doesn't matter if you draw the Tournament or Province dead - you just set both of them aside for next turn. You virtually guarantee a Tournament pickup the shuffle after you gain a Province.

Gear + Forager

Many terminal draw BM strategies can't really incorporate trashing as they could draw the trasher dead. But not Gear! Gear loves trashing. You can set aside the trasher you dead drew, plus the card you want to get rid of!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on December 07, 2015, 02:10:36 pm
Gear is just the best.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on December 07, 2015, 02:16:11 pm
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on December 07, 2015, 02:19:49 pm
Storyteller/bank
After drawing about 92 treasures with storyteller play bank to get 1$ out of every treasure you have played. Works well with +buy
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on December 08, 2015, 12:13:18 pm
I think Highway will become more popular because of its numerous synergies with cards from adventures.

Highway+Ferry:
Helps to get these highways in no time.

Highway+Artificer:
Any gainer is strong with highway; on-top, artificer does the gaining mid-turn, which can be a significant speed-up.

Highway+Bridge Troll:
Obvious one.

Highway+Ball:
Play Highway, buy ball, gain two highways. Play four highways, buy ball, gain two provinces.

Highway+Inheritance:
It's tough to hit $7 if all you have is highways; but if you're lucky, Inheritance might win you the highways split "7-5", while pseudotrashing estates. Mostly crucial.

Highway+Pathfinding:
Hitting 8$ is even harder, but if you manage to do it, your lab/highway-hybrids will connect in no time.

Highway+Teacher:
Well, Teacher combos with everything, but if you put your tokens "+card" and "+buy" on highway, it's gg.

Highway+Duplicate:
Use Duplicate to gain highways. Later on, duplicate your provinces (or colonies).

Highway + Seaway:
werothegreat described that one: Play a highway, put seaway on highway - all highways get the +buys desperately needed.

Highway+Plan:
Trashing cards while gaining highways is awesome.










Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on December 08, 2015, 12:33:35 pm
Borrow/Save
Buy Borrow, then Save. Effectively topdeck a card from your hand for free.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theright555J on December 08, 2015, 04:23:19 pm
Sage/Sea Hag

Open Sage/Sea Hag on a 4/3 especially if there's no trashing.  Buy nothing but sages until the pile is gone.  Play Sea Hag every turn to dominate the curse split. It is very unlikely that the opponent will be able to regroup in time to overcome a points deficit before you run out another cheap pile like estates.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on December 08, 2015, 09:29:30 pm
Copper + Estate

If you have 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, you can start another game of Dominion.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 09, 2015, 09:00:54 am
Copper + Estate

If you have 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, you can start another game of Dominion.

Sounds like a viable counter to someone trying to play sage/sea hag on you.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: teamrocketgrunt on December 09, 2015, 09:12:15 am
Highway+Teacher:
Well, Teacher combos with everything, but if you put your tokens "+card" and "+buy" on highway, it's gg.

Not sure, but I don't think that one works like that, since Teacher only let's you put a token on a supply pile you have no other tokens on. You could either make a Lab out of it that cheapens cards and still have that "Highway, why u no give +buy"-memish-problem or you could give Highway a nudge towards being a non-terminal bridge.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 09, 2015, 09:20:30 am
Sage/Sea Hag

Open Sage/Sea Hag on a 4/3 especially if there's no trashing.  Buy nothing but sages until the pile is gone.  Play Sea Hag every turn to dominate the curse split. It is very unlikely that the opponent will be able to regroup in time to overcome a points deficit before you run out another cheap pile like estates.

So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on December 09, 2015, 11:41:51 am
Sage/Sea Hag is a decent opening.  Supplement with cards that actually do something after that.

Now HUNTING PARTY/Sea Hag works the way you seem to be thinking, and that's perfectly acceptable to spam.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theright555J on December 09, 2015, 03:16:09 pm

So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on December 09, 2015, 04:11:24 pm

So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.

I am willing to believe that some variant of this works with support... But if you literally don't buy anything except sages, estates, and a single sea hag, I have my doubts. Even to beat a MF bot using this strategy, I still had to pick up a silver so I could spike duchy...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: microman on December 09, 2015, 05:05:50 pm

So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck. 

The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.

It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out.  I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
That's probably the main problem then.  Ignoring sea hag when your opponent does not, is basically game over, especially when there isn't any viable trashing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: microman on December 09, 2015, 05:53:34 pm
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on December 09, 2015, 06:15:21 pm
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on December 09, 2015, 06:46:49 pm
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

But do you like it in a box?  Do you like it with a fox?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on December 09, 2015, 07:19:28 pm
I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

But do you like it in a box?  Do you like it with a fox?

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Philosopher%27s_Stone.jpg/200px-Philosopher%27s_Stone.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/37/Ranger.jpg/200px-Ranger.jpg)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on December 10, 2015, 07:30:49 am
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

I'm still not a believer in Gear. I'll concede that it's on par with Smithy-BM or a bit better than that, but beyond that? I don't see it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on December 10, 2015, 08:51:34 am
Gear is just the best.

 :'(

It's sad because it's true.
Why sad?  Don't you like Gear.  I know I do.

I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.

I'm still not a believer in Gear. I'll concede that it's on par with Smithy-BM or a bit better than that, but beyond that? I don't see it.

13 turns, man.  13 turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on December 10, 2015, 10:22:58 am
I'd be surprised if this wasn't already discussed a lot, but I don't remember specifically reading about it, so....

Procession (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Procession) + Feast (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Feast). Gain 3 (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)s instead of just the normal 1 you'd get with Feast or the 2 you'd get with Throne Room (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Throne_Room) + Feast.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on December 10, 2015, 10:51:53 am
Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on December 10, 2015, 11:41:28 am
Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).

The only thing KC/Feast can do that Procession/Feast can't is gain a set of 3 cards where each is either non-action or costs less than $5. If for any time you use this combo at least one card you gain is both an action and costs $5, King's Court does the same thing and costs a lot more. I admit a possible reason to go for King's Court (besides the usual awesomeness of KC) would be the option to gain 3 Duchies.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on December 10, 2015, 12:56:02 pm
Oh, i forgot: King's Cout is also better if you played a card to reduce costs.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on December 12, 2015, 08:07:14 pm
Beggar/Counting House.

This seems to be ok on weak colony boards. Just buy nothing but Beggar, Colony and Counting House the entire game. Resilient against most attacks. Seems pretty fast.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 16, 2015, 09:02:51 am
Contraband + Fairgrounds

This is hardly a power combo, but it is a pretty cool synergy.  The presence of Fairgrounds (along with conditions sufficient to make it worth pursuing) ameliorates Contraband's downside.  While you're developing a deck with a variety of components, a ban on one particular component is rarely impactful.  When you're greening, a single ban isn't crippling, because you're often willing to pick up Provinces or Fairgrounds (or a single Duchy).  Contraband, with its healthy coin payload and additional buy, makes it easier to pick up the variety of kingdom cards needed to fuel Fairgrounds.

(I belatedly notice that this synergy is mentioned in the strategy section for both cards on the Wiki.  Oh well, I guess I'm unlikely to discover novel synergies that don't include Adventures cards at this point...)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on December 17, 2015, 02:46:41 pm
Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).

Yeah but KC is a $7, Procession is a $4. Of course KC is going to be more powerful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on December 18, 2015, 08:43:49 pm
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 19, 2015, 01:05:15 am
Gear + Trader

Gear BM is very good by itself; it races to 4 Provinces as fast as any single card (I believe) and it is pretty consistent, because you can make your own shuffle luck.  However, Gear BM has trouble with junkers and maintaining momentum once it starts greening.  Enter Trader: one of Gear's best supporting cards.  Gear makes it easy to pair up Trader with your starting Estates, and Trader increases the average quality of your deck in two dimensions.  Gear + Trader isn't any faster to 4 Provinces, but it dominates in a long game, which makes it fare better against engines and when there is alternative VP.  Trader also handles junkers very well (it may be worth picking up a second Trader against some junkers).  It's also pretty fun to play (by BM standards)!

Strategy:

Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  I got 48+ victory points by turn 17 in all three games.  In my first game, I mistakenly got a Province on turn 6, so it took a while to recover, but then I finished with 5 Province turns in a row to run out the pile!  In the second game, I grabbed some Duchies pretty early and ended with 6 Provinces and 4 Duchies.  In the third game, I didn't manage to trash my third Estate, but I got 4 Provinces by turn 12 and finished with 7 Provinces, 2 Duchies, and an Estate.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on December 19, 2015, 02:59:51 am
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on December 19, 2015, 04:40:47 am
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.

Thanks. Thinking of it, this seems familiar. But why in the world is he talking about buying a Copper? A deck that draws itself should be able to pick up engine parts instead, making it easier, not harder, to repeat the process. I guess it's the case if your opponent's deck has so little money it can't buy anything better (sans the five bad cards), but that makes trashing the premise for a situation where you need trashing. Which is especially weird as he immediately before talked about going for Possession, which costs quite a lot...

The interaction  is also interesting in that an opponent's Haunted Woods may actually help you to line up your Potion with enough money to buy Possession.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on December 19, 2015, 08:17:29 am
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.

Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.

Thanks. Thinking of it, this seems familiar. But why in the world is he talking about buying a Copper? A deck that draws itself should be able to pick up engine parts instead, making it easier, not harder, to repeat the process. I guess it's the case if your opponent's deck has so little money it can't buy anything better (sans the five bad cards), but that makes trashing the premise for a situation where you need trashing. Which is especially weird as he immediately before talked about going for Possession, which costs quite a lot...

The interaction  is also interesting in that an opponent's Haunted Woods may actually help you to line up your Potion with enough money to buy Possession.

You want to have them topdeck 5 cards that won't work togehter (like 5 terminal draw cards, 5 Victory cards, etc), so to keep those cards in hand you generally don't focus on building up much of an economy that turn. Every card you play is a card that can't go on your opponent's deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 19, 2015, 03:33:22 pm
Another BM synergy:

Courtyard + Quest

Courtyard provides the 6-card hands to guarantee Gold via Quest.  Courtyard can save Gold for the next turn when a Province is out of reach.  Simple and effective.  This strategy is very fast, reliable, and pretty resilient to greening.  It gets destroyed by any handsize attack, though.

Strategy:
Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  In the first two, I stopped at turn 13, after acquiring 33 VP.  In the first game, I ended with 5 Provinces, 5 Golds, and 3 Courtyards.  In the second game, I ended with 4 Provinces, 2 Duchies, 5 Golds, and 2 Courtyards.  In the third game, I decided to simulate playing against alt-VP.  I bought all 8 Provinces by turn 18.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on December 19, 2015, 03:50:19 pm
Another BM synergy:

Courtyard + Quest

Courtyard provides the 6-card hands to guarantee Gold via Quest.  Courtyard can save Gold for the next turn when a Province is out of reach.  Simple and effective.  This strategy is very fast, reliable, and pretty resilient to greening.  It gets destroyed by any handsize attack, though.

Strategy:
  • Open Courtyard + Courtyard.
  • Whenever you have the coin, buy a Province.
  • If not, use Quest to gain a Gold (or buy a Duchy late-game).
  • If you have a hand with no Courtyard, buy a third Courtyard or a Duchy.
Solitaire Results:
I played three solitaire games with this strategy.  In the first two, I stopped at turn 13, after acquiring 33 VP.  In the first game, I ended with 5 Provinces, 5 Golds, and 3 Courtyards.  In the second game, I ended with 4 Provinces, 2 Duchies, 5 Golds, and 2 Courtyards.  In the third game, I decided to simulate playing against alt-VP.  I bought all 8 Provinces by turn 18.

You know what's even better though? Gear + Quest! You can always set aside exactly as many cards as you did the previous turn and still guarantee a Gold, plus you can keep those golds shuffling along for Province buys!

Gear is still the best
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 19, 2015, 04:48:15 pm
You know what's even better though? Gear + Quest! You can always set aside exactly as many cards as you did the previous turn and still guarantee a Gold, plus you can keep those golds shuffling along for Province buys!

Gear is still the best
I played a few solitaire games with Gear + Quest.  I had fantastic draws in my first game and got to 5 Provinces by turn 12!  The next game, my draws were poor and it took me 16 turns to get the same amount of VP (I'm willing to believe that I played this sub-optimally).  I thought the draws on my third game were hit and miss, but I managed to get 5 Provinces by turn 12 again (and an additional 9 VP by turn 14 - though my turn 15 was terrible).

My verdict: Gear + Quest is about as powerful as Courtyard + Quest, but less reliable and less synergistic.
Reliability: With Courtyard, you can always save a card and get a Gold.  So, if Courtyards collide, you simply set one aside for the next turn.  With Gear, you have to make a choice: set aside cards, or gain a Gold.  This is a tough choice.  The Gear + Quest strategy becomes really strong when you can set aside two cards and get a Gold or Province each turn.  To start that up, though, I found myself needing to be able to buy a Gold outright on a Gear turn (maybe I should have considered buying a Silver).  Plus, the moment you miss a Gear, you have a tough dilemma next turn: set aside or discard for Gold.
Synergy: With Courtyard + Quest, I managed to go 18 turns, purchasing 8 Provinces, and only had one non-Province, non-Quest, non-Courtyard purchase (an Estate on turn 17).  That's beautiful synergy.  With Gear + Quest, I only ended up using Quest 2-3 times per game; I bought at least as many Gold outright.  The strategy was effective mostly because Gear BM is effective.  The presence of Quest makes Courtyard more better than Gear (even though the two strategies are equally effective), if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ben_king on December 21, 2015, 10:13:06 am
One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: thespaceinvader on December 21, 2015, 10:34:12 am
One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.

It's very similar to Horse Traders/Duke in that respect, except Horse Traders/Duke is a bit more resilient to discard attacks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on December 22, 2015, 10:18:11 am
Stonemason + Border Village + Duke (really, any 5, though)

Obvious synergy here - for $8, get a Stonemason, two $6 Villages, two of anything you want. Great for engines, but also great for Duke / Duchy, because you can then play Stonemason to trash the BV to get two MORE $5 cost cards, and Stonemason helps rush piles, speeding up Duke / Duchy a lot.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on December 22, 2015, 11:10:16 am
One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke.  Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards.  With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card.  So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.
Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.

It's very similar to Horse Traders/Duke in that respect, except Horse Traders/Duke is a bit more resilient to discard attacks.

Seems to me with Storeroom/Duke you actually don't want the extra Coppers. The name of the game is to line up Storeroom with Silver, so Coppers aren't helping you hit $5 here.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on January 07, 2016, 09:07:13 am
Artificer + Poor House

As the only 1-cost card, Poor House is uniquely trivial to gain with Artificer.  And Artificer can make your Poor Houses more powerful by selectively discarding treasures (for benefit!).

Artificer + Native Village

Gaining victory cards with Artificer is usually not ideal, because they go on top of your deck.  But with Native Village, this is a feature!  You can reliably gain victory cards and store them away on your Native Village mat.  Plus, Native Villages are easy to gain with Artificer.

Artificer + Menagerie

A more obvious synergy.  Artificer can selectively discard cards to activate Menagerie.  Menagerie is also cheap enough to gain with Artificer.  Consider: a hand with Artificer + Menagerie + three other cards.  You can play the Artificer, discard three other cards to gain a Menagerie, play a (guaranteed activated) Menagerie and play the gained Menagerie.  You now have a 4 or 6 card hand with 1 coin and an extra Menagerie in your deck.  And that's a low bar on the synergy between these two cards.  Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: zeruf on January 13, 2016, 02:26:44 am
alms (event) and hermit have a neat interaction.  You can buy alms on a hermit turn and still get a madman since paying for alms isn't technically buying a card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on January 20, 2016, 01:40:03 pm
Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.
Transmogrify is super good at milling provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on January 20, 2016, 02:36:14 pm
Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.

I don't think this is the case. I mean sure you're sometimes going to Transmogrify Peddlers into Provinces, but I think Butcher is trivially a better combo with Peddler.

Transmogrify is super good at milling provinces.

That's certainly true.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 20, 2016, 02:47:04 pm
Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.

I don't think this is the case. I mean sure you're sometimes going to Transmogrify Peddlers into Provinces, but I think Butcher is trivially a better combo with Peddler.

I agree.  Transmogrify would certainly have benefits over Butcher in certain situations -- it costs less, it's non terminal, and you get to put the Platinum into your hand -- but I think Butcher is MUCH more powerful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on January 20, 2016, 03:54:24 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 20, 2016, 04:34:20 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

Transmogrify benefits:
Butcher benefits:
I'm sure there are things I'm missing.  Point I'm trying to make though is that each of these cards has their own pros and cons depending on the situation.  I still think Butcher is "better" (that is, it is more useful in more situations), but of course that could be debated.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on January 20, 2016, 04:36:53 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
Also you don't need to collide the province and your butcher. Transmogrify can just sit on your tavern mat waiting for the perfect time to end the game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on January 20, 2016, 04:38:16 pm
Transmogrify only works at the start of your turn. It has considerably less search space for pairing it up with the card you want than, for instance, a Butcher played in an engine deck.

Transmogrify can also only be used every other turn.

Which isn't to say that Transmogrify can't do some of the things being suggested.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on January 20, 2016, 05:28:27 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your Limetime's assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.

Edit: attribution!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on January 20, 2016, 05:56:53 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify  is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are close
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on January 20, 2016, 11:44:47 pm
Another one that beat me in a recent game.
Cutpurse counters stables. Esp in multiples.
Original hand:
Stables*2, copper*2, estate

Opponent plays Cutpurse *2
Nooooo....
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Runegentleman on January 23, 2016, 03:55:50 pm
First post on the forum, hee hee.

Just now played a game where this came up and thought it was neat enough to let people know.
With Hermit and Squire in play, you can pretty much gain one expensive attack card of your choice every shuffle by trashing the Squire from your hand or from your discard pile, then gaining another Squire. Not exactly sure what the odds are of this happening, but they aren't bad. Best of all, when you're done gaining, you can turn the Hermit right into a Madman.

Of course, the combo is moot without strong attack cards or with a few strong $3s and $4s, but on those expensive boards where it feels like you're stuck at silver forever, it's a handy way to jumpstart an engine. Shame it only applies on specific boards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on January 24, 2016, 09:38:11 am
Farming village/courtyard in a draw engine deck where you can't trash estates.

You play some village, then you play courtyard and put back an estate, then you play farming village. It mitigates the fact that Courtyard made you put a card back on your deck and helps you get through your deck a little faster in a weak engine.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on January 26, 2016, 06:02:11 pm
Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on January 26, 2016, 06:17:37 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on January 26, 2016, 07:00:43 pm
Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.

I think I vastly prefer Warehouse-Treasure Map.  I wouldn't mind seeing some math, but my intuition is that Warehouse makes it much easier to align Treasure Maps.  Even if it misses, Warehouse speeds you along to the next shuffle to try again.  The sifting also helps you find and play your Gold more often.

I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

If the other player already had Possession by that time, you were already in trouble.  :-\
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 26, 2016, 07:25:45 pm
Haven + Treasure Map

Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler.  A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there.  Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.

I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy.  To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns.  Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library.  It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12757.msg500808#msg500808
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Co0kieL0rd on January 26, 2016, 08:45:14 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on January 26, 2016, 08:54:04 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on January 26, 2016, 10:56:25 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on January 26, 2016, 11:01:09 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: enfynet on January 26, 2016, 11:18:32 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: WanderingWinder on January 27, 2016, 01:25:42 pm
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.

Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Draw your alt-vp :(
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?
I don't get it :(
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.

Great Hall? Maybe Island, too.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on January 27, 2016, 04:22:26 pm
They could also draw your Distant Lands and not put them on the Reserve Mat, thus making them stay in your deck for another shuffle.

Island is a terrible buy in a Possession game, since your opponent could Island away your own Possessions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on January 31, 2016, 01:41:24 am
Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on January 31, 2016, 09:11:24 am
Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on January 31, 2016, 12:38:52 pm
Inheritance+Bridge Troll:

Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.

In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.

That isn't really a big problem though. You only need 1, you have 2 turns to hit 7, and you're likely in the process of building a big engine if you're trying this strategy, so you should be able to draw part of your deck and hit $7 somewhat quickly.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 31, 2016, 03:31:29 pm
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.

LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.".  They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify  is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are close

I played an Adventures/Intrigue Kingdom today and found that transmogrify is a great Conspirator enabler as it is chainable when put on the Tavern mat, can get you Conspirator in hand when you have the action, or change your unsupported Conspirator for something better. (I swapped a dead Conspirator for a Storyteller, spent my hand, drew six new cards which formed a new Conspirator chain.) 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Moneymodel on February 01, 2016, 01:29:49 pm
I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on February 01, 2016, 08:24:44 pm
I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.

I'd say that magpie being a powerful engine enabler probably decreases the odds that you are looking at a kingdom where you actually want a stash.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on February 01, 2016, 11:38:10 pm
king's court * 2 + transmute * 3 ft. pathfinding

W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on February 02, 2016, 12:05:22 am
Quarry + apprentice
Buy cards for cheap apprentice them at full price.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Moneymodel on February 02, 2016, 01:23:14 pm
I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.

Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.

I'd say that magpie being a powerful engine enabler probably decreases the odds that you are looking at a kingdom where you actually want a stash.

Maybe? Magpie kinda presents itself as one of those half-engine cards. Like Stables. Well, okay maybe the combo should be Stables and Stash. If you're greening or have bought too many Stables, guarantee that a hand's not a dud. Of course, if Stables is that important, you'll only want to go for Stash after you've won the split.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on February 02, 2016, 02:36:11 pm
Combo: Tactician + Mission (or Outpost?) (+ saver)

I did some searching and couldn't find this combo anywhere, so I present it here for consideration.

The issue with double-tac is that you have to accumulate virtual coin. This combo allows you to basically play double-tac with regular ol' treasure. Tactician already gives you a +buy, so after very little treasure upgrading, each buy phase is: Colony/Province, mission. On your mission turn, all you're doing is drawing your other Tactician and playing it, setting up a ten-card hand every "real" turn.

It works especially well with ways to guarantee the Tactician on the Mission turn (Haven, Gear, Save.) This can turn the deck into a 100% shuffle-luck-proof auto-buy machine.

Comments? Should the wiki article list Mission/Outpost as synergistic cards with Tactician since it gives you something extremely worthwhile to do on an otherwise suboptimal nerfed "extra turn?" Or does the combo rely too heavily on a saver or shuffle luck (or perhaps a stacker like Cartographer, or a sifter like workshop when your discard pile is empty and your other Tactician is already in your hand? Other ways to ensure a Tactician on the nerfed turn?) Or are Mission/Outpost more abusable than I'm imagining? Maybe it only works on non-engine boards?

This came up in a game and I had it absolutely in the bag, except that I lost count and trashed one too many coppers, leaving me with 14 coin each turn reliably. Oh, wait. Colony + Mission is 15. Can I go back two turns and get that copper back? Lost by one Colony when I had to use a buy to set back up. D'oh! To quote David St. Hubbins, "It's a fine line between clever and stupid."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on February 02, 2016, 03:16:00 pm
Hmm.  The trick with Double Tactician is consistently playing Tactician every turn.  Usually this means that you need two Tacticians, actions that produce coins, and strong trashing/sifting/draw to maintain consistency as you go.

Mission lets you skip the second Tactician (you can replay the single one on the Mission turn) and also lets you skip coin-producing actions (you don't need to discard them on your Tactician turn).

The negatives are that you need to consistently produce more coins (to afford Mission each turn) and that you can't take advantage of Tactician's +Buy each turn to get either more VP or more components to maintain consistency.  Consistency is thus tougher to maintain overall.

It could see it working out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on February 03, 2016, 04:14:48 pm
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on February 03, 2016, 04:17:18 pm
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With one +buy card in play and Trader in hand, you can buy a Silver for $0.
With two +buy cards in play and a Trader in hand, you can buy two Silvers for $0
With three +buy cards in play...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on February 03, 2016, 04:22:39 pm
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on February 03, 2016, 04:29:19 pm
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: theright555J on February 03, 2016, 04:52:40 pm
Graverobber + Catacombs

With any $4 or less village support, Graverob Catacombs into province and village, then use another Graverobber to topdeck catacombs.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Eran of Arcadia on February 03, 2016, 09:14:07 pm
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on February 04, 2016, 11:52:59 am
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on February 04, 2016, 11:56:19 am
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P

I think that's not true, right?

Nevermind, reading comprehension. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on February 04, 2016, 11:57:27 am
Though with Trader and anything in hand, you can have paid $0 for some number of Silvers. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on February 04, 2016, 11:59:37 am
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.

With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.

With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers  :P

I think that's not true, right?

Nevermind, reading comprehension.

It's arguably not true by Dominion rules, in which paying for something also means spending a Buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on February 07, 2016, 12:21:14 am
Transmogrify + Rats

Trash your starting cards (and curses/ruins) with Rats, and turn Rats into 5-cost cards with Transmogrify.

I just played a game with this recently.  It's a lot like Upgrade + Rats, but without the pile-emptying degenerate strategies.  Transmogrify is a little slower to play, but it puts the 5-cost card right into your 6-card hand.  It's especially strong with situational 5-cost cards.  This strategy can be a little dangerous with other sources of card draw; you need the Rats to be in your starting hand to trash them.  I believe this is one of the most powerful Rat synergies.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on February 07, 2016, 04:20:28 am
Sage + anything that requires you put cards from your hand on top of your deck, e.g. Courtyard, Secret Chamber's reaction, opponent's Ghost Ship attack, etc.

Put cards costing <3 on top of your deck and Sage will sail past them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 07, 2016, 12:26:00 pm
Transmogrify + Rats

Trash your starting cards (and curses/ruins) with Rats, and turn Rats into 5-cost cards with Transmogrify.

I just played a game with this recently.  It's a lot like Upgrade + Rats, but without the pile-emptying degenerate strategies.  Transmogrify is a little slower to play, but it puts the 5-cost card right into your 6-card hand.  It's especially strong with situational 5-cost cards.  This strategy can be a little dangerous with other sources of card draw; you need the Rats to be in your starting hand to trash them.  I believe this is one of the most powerful Rat synergies.

Another benefit is that unlike Upgrade, you can Transmogrify into $4 cost cards (including more Transmogrify!)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on February 07, 2016, 11:58:04 pm
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 08, 2016, 12:07:06 am
Transmogrify + Graverobber

Use Transmogrify, but get your stuff back

I think T-mog is hurt the most from the whole "trash this, get something else" thing because the intent is to swap a potentially useful card in your hand for a potentially more useful card, as opposed to junk for something better, or a no-longer-needed action/treasure into a victory card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 08, 2016, 10:09:36 am
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: assemble_me on February 08, 2016, 10:22:34 am
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.

Well, you have that extra Doctor - but that's better than loads of Coppers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on February 08, 2016, 10:47:30 am
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.

To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.

Well, you have that extra Doctor - but that's better than loads of Coppers.
Don't you gain the doctor before you trash?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gkrieg13 on February 08, 2016, 10:48:39 am
No because it's an on buy type of effect
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on February 08, 2016, 10:49:55 am
No because it's an on buy type of effect
I am not good at rules :)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on February 10, 2016, 02:29:43 am
Transmogrify+Cultist

If you trash a cultist and gain a cultist, Transmogrify becomes

"+action, draw three cards at the beginning of your next turn",
with additional alternatives like replacing the cultist or replacing silver by a cultist.

Similar to nonterminal Haunted Woods, sort of.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on February 10, 2016, 02:57:05 am
I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on February 10, 2016, 04:15:32 am
I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
Transmogrify is nonterminal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on February 10, 2016, 04:31:21 am
I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.
Transmogrify is nonterminal.
Playing it is nonterminal, invoking it (at start of next turn at the earliest) isn't. Well, at least it isn't +action.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdamH on February 10, 2016, 08:01:19 am
This is the natural confusion we have with more Events and Reserves now -- we've always compared the opportunity cost of all effects to the "+1 Card / +1 Action" of playing an Action card. Duration effects in Seaside could mostly be described in these contexts: "Merchant Ship is a terminal Silver now and two Peddlers on your next turn!" or "Caravan is a cantrip now and a Lab on your next turn!" We could even extend this to Treasures for most practical purposes: "Horn is a non-terminal gainer that you can draw dead, but can't use mid-turn (without a crazy combo)"

Reserves and Events are throwing people off because their cost is not the same. Reserve cards' on-play cost is still a card and an action, but their on-call effect doesn't have that cost. In a lot of these cases, you are still paying that cost, but you're paying it up-front without an immediate benefit, which often equates to a cost slightly more than +1 Card / +1 Action overall that you hope to make up in flexibility.

Transmogrify's on-call effect is really great, but it's very slow and that's not to be ignored. It seems Transmogrify has a cool synergy with the usual suspects that have TfB synergies.

Adventures introduced less symmetrical duration cards and duration-style cards (Reserves) that really force you to think differently than this conventional way we've developed if you want to have an accurate picture of what's going on. Empires will do similar, yet probably more overall game-warping things rather than just turn-warping things -- you'll have many more games that don't just come down to green cards since there are lots more ways to score points and you'll have to actually think about the number of points you have when you want to compare them, as opposed to "my plan is to get five Provinces and I should win the game".

I've always challenged conventional thinking when I think I can do better. It's how you get better at Dominion/Life.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on February 10, 2016, 05:00:25 pm
Lookout and Rogue. Not a super-combo by any means, but you might be happier playing Lookout further into the mid/end-game knowing that even if you have to trash something useful, it's not gone forever (and if it's a card like Duchy then that's equivalent to discarding it off your deck which you could be quite happy about).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on February 10, 2016, 05:07:56 pm
Lookout and Rogue. Not a super-combo by any means, but you might be happier playing Lookout further into the mid/end-game knowing that even if you have to trash something useful, it's not gone forever (and if it's a card like Duchy then that's equivalent to discarding it off your deck which you could be quite happy about).

Also Forager - Rogue

Not super powerful.  But play multiple Foragers per turn, trashing Silvers & Golds, then in the same turn play a Rogue to gain them back.  Example game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160210/log.0.1455087690982.txt
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160210/log.0.1455087690982.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 10, 2016, 05:19:54 pm
I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on February 10, 2016, 05:29:13 pm
I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on February 10, 2016, 06:17:28 pm
I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
If you miss click and trash a duchy you can gain it back. See combo ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on February 10, 2016, 10:20:59 pm
I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".

Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
Either trash-for-benefit or trash-with-risk (as maybe the case with something like Upgrade or Junk Dealer?). I was focusing on Lookout and Rogue mostly because they're both weaker cards that definitely benefit quite a bit from the synergy with each other.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on February 11, 2016, 05:21:23 am
In my opinion, Lookout and Rogue have a bad relationship, even an anti-synergy. If I ever buy Rogue, I want to attack my opponent, only to realize that I already trashed a Silver/redundant terminal I no longer want with Lookout.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on February 12, 2016, 08:11:14 am
Rogue/Feodum

Trash Feudoms with some other trasher to gain a bunch of Silvers (Trader and Stonemason are good), regain them from the trash.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on February 15, 2016, 05:44:13 am
It might not be the most common thing ever, nor the most powerful, but in this game (https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160215/log.0.1455531899129.txt), turn 11 I use cellar on an empty discard to discard a bunch of coppers that risk stopping my engine, draw useful cards, and then after triggering the reshuffle pick up all the coppers with wishing wells. Yay!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on February 15, 2016, 09:01:08 am
Urchin/Mercenary + Save

Open Urchin/Urchin.  If you only see one Urchin on turn 3, save it for a very good chance of having a Mercenary in your second reshuffle.  With Save, it shouldn't be necessary to get a third Urchin.  Save also helps pair your second Urchin with Mercenary, and your junk with Mercenary.  Unfortunately, Save doesn't play nicely with your opponents' discard attacks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on February 18, 2016, 02:18:46 pm
Goons-Mint
It would take a LOT of support, but... play Goons, buy a bunch of Coppers, next turn buy a Mint to trash all the Coppers.  Obviously not as powerful as Goons-Watchtower, but could theoretically work out.  Or not.  I don't have any game logs.

I kind of tried it here (Apprentice to get rid of the Mints):
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160216/log.0.1455597061342.txt
but lost horribly (not because of this bad strategy, but because I was already behind pretty early).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on February 27, 2016, 08:26:20 am
A couple I have had recently come up in games.

Mint/Spice Merchant

- Spice Merchant was the only +buy on the board. Mint can be used to gain Spice Merchant fodder so more than one card can be bought per turn.

University/Graverobber

- University can gain 5 cost actions that Graverobber can turn into Provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: jsh357 on March 26, 2016, 10:31:33 pm
Magpie/Stables. I guess the synergy is pretty obvious, but it's super relieving when you draw Stables with no treasure and your Magpie pulls up a Copper or something. I wouldn't say this is a power combo, but it's worth noting when the two are together.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: crj on March 27, 2016, 10:39:10 pm
Peasant/Tactician.

Soldier helps you buy your first Tactician. One Tactician makes it trivial to buy a second.

Double-Tac makes upgrading travellers quick and easy.

Use Teacher to put +1 Card on Tactician. Then play Disciple on a Tactician. Result: +10 Cards, +2 Buys, +2 Actions next turn. And gain another Tactician.

Now you're running a scary doubled-up double-Tac. Soldiers are an action that provides coin.


This feels quite flexible. Almost any kingdom will contain something that sweetens the deal. If not, use Teacher until it does. (-8
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on March 27, 2016, 10:46:58 pm
Soldier payload with Urchin (or Minion, or any other cantrip attack) can be brutal. Thin down with Mercenary, play a million Urchins, then Soldier up with tons of coin. This is even stronger with Disciple being able to gain more Urchins, and Teacher with a +buy token being granted to the Urchins for even more buying power, assuming there is no +buy. If not, then obviously you can just put a coin on Urchins, or even card, whatever you'd need.

Takes a bit of time to set up, but it's worth pointing out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on March 29, 2016, 09:07:29 am
Storyteller + Trader

Normally, using Trader on an Estate decreases your cycling speed.  Not so with Storyteller!  I played a game recently where an opponent had at least 10 Silvers (mostly due to Trader) and could consistently draw his deck with 4-5 Storytellers - so long as he started with one in hand.

Storyteller + Training

6-cost Pathfinding?  Yes, please!  You don't even need to put the Training on Storyteller to turn the coins into card draw; just play the Training target before your last Storyteller.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on April 09, 2016, 04:15:54 am
Walled Village-Island:
I've recently played a board with awful terminals (I believe they were Island, Coppersmith, and maybe Explorer) where I went for Hoard-BM. I bought a good amount of early islands to get Golds, and a single Walled Village protected me from Island collision the whole game, since it can't ever be discarded, because islands disappear from play.
Also works with Feast, Embargo, and a few others!
Very very marginal, but sweet. :)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on April 21, 2016, 03:43:22 pm
Prince - Conspirator

Today I played a game with only terminals, starring Bridge and Prince. We both went for Princed Bridges (I got three, my opponent went for one). I then picked up Conspirators with spare buys, to ramp up in buying power.

The cool thing is that after you Prince two cards your Conspirators will always be active. ;D

Again, pretty marginal, but neat.  :)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on April 21, 2016, 05:25:45 pm
Inn - Counting House

When your discard pile is large and has a bunch of Coppers in it, use Inn to topdeck Counting Houses (but only if you're not going to shuffle).  Not incredibly useful, but pretty neat and can guarantee a Province or whatever.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160421/log.0.1461199694839.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on April 21, 2016, 05:27:08 pm
Wandering Ministrel + counting house was something I did today.

Discard allt he coppers. Let counting house take care of them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 22, 2016, 10:50:43 am
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Infthitbox on April 22, 2016, 10:51:53 am
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on April 22, 2016, 10:55:07 am
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?

Just played against a bot where doing that I got all the Colonies by turn 20.  That means it took at least 16 turns to get 4 Colonies, but there were a few turns between 4 and 8 where I got Platinum or another Gear (bot bought a Giant), so it was more like 12-14 turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Infthitbox on April 22, 2016, 11:04:14 am
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?

Just played against a bot where doing that I got all the Colonies by turn 20.  That means it took at least 16 turns to get 4 Colonies, but there were a few turns between 4 and 8 where I got Platinum or another Gear (bot bought a Giant), so it was more like 12-14 turns.

I don't know about all that, but I just ran a simulation of standard Third Gear against Third Gear with Plan on Gear, and Gear/Plan won 57.5%. Good enough for me.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on April 22, 2016, 11:19:09 am
Plan is actually super fucking good any time you plan on buying 3 of anything cheap. I think it's the most underrated event right now.

Like opening Plan / Fishing Village I'm convinced is one of the top openings I've ever done, you get a 10 card deck where you either spike 5 or guarantee two 5s in a row shuffle 3 by buying two more Fishing Villages and clearing your Estates. I used this open to pivot toward 5 cost draw cards / attacks (Margrave) and then cleaned house. I love when a good Plan comes together.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Infthitbox on April 22, 2016, 11:26:08 am
Plan is actually super fucking good any time you plan on buying 3 of anything cheap. I think it's the most underrated event right now.

Like opening Plan / Fishing Village I'm convinced is one of the top openings I've ever done, you get a 10 card deck where you either spike 5 or guarantee two 5s in a row shuffle 3 by buying two more Fishing Villages and clearing your Estates. I used this open to pivot toward 5 cost draw cards / attacks (Margrave) and then cleaned house. I love when a good Plan comes together.

You don't even need 3 I don't think. At least in the case of Gear, I ran sims for buying [1, 2, 3] Gear against buying that same number of Gear having first bought Plan. Even when you only bought 2 Gear, Planning on Gear outperformed not doing so. In the case of just one Gear, opening Gear/Silver vs. Plan/Gear ended up being slightly favored towards not Planning. Its hard to generalize this towards other cards, but I'm not convinced that 3 is the magic number.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 25, 2016, 12:48:15 pm
Baker / Trading Post

Baker lets you open with 5 coin to buy trading post. Trading post quickly turns a deck into 7 copper and 3 estates into a deck of 5 silver, to which you can add 3-4 bakers and then start getting a province per turn very consistently. In the log below, with a little extra help from scheme & ironmonger, I get 6 provinces in 14 turns despite a golden sombrero opening.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160425/log.0.1461600874046.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on April 25, 2016, 01:14:47 pm
Haven/Saboteur

For those rare boards where you can play Saboteur enough to be destructive, Haven offers an interesting defence. Use it to hide away any Provinces or Duchies you pick up so your opponent's Saboteurs can never find them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: jsh357 on May 02, 2016, 06:40:45 pm
Ill-Gotten Gains/Borrow. That extra $1 is often very much worth it in these games, as hitting a sad $4 is quite common.

Thank you, I'm here all night.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on May 02, 2016, 06:46:32 pm
Bandit Camp / Alms

Produce all your $ with spoils, then buy an alms anyway with a spare buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 02, 2016, 07:21:08 pm
Bandit Camp / Alms

Produce all your $ with spoils, then buy an alms anyway with a spare buy.

Similar interaction with Coin token cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on May 02, 2016, 10:38:17 pm
Coin of the Realm/Tribute or Golem

This feels pretty obvious, but cards where it's uncertain whether you end up with Actions after having played them love Coin of the Realm. Tribute is suddenly a lot better when playing it is guaranteed to not end your turn prematurely.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 04, 2016, 11:12:17 pm
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 05, 2016, 12:08:08 am
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on May 05, 2016, 12:43:53 am
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Triumph44 on May 05, 2016, 12:51:43 am
I had fun with Haunted Woods/Outpost today - you get a 6 card Outpost turn right away (though you do lose the Attack effect)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 05, 2016, 01:04:37 am
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on May 05, 2016, 11:39:51 am
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 05, 2016, 11:58:26 am
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.

You don't even need to guarantee it, Outpost is good as long as it's reasonably likely. If you can expect to get one good turn out of Outpost, it's already better than greening earlier in a lot of cases.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on May 06, 2016, 02:12:39 pm
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing.  Especially if you win the Wharf split.

It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost.  It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.

I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.

That's why I specified reliable.  Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support.  You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP).  But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".

And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.

I don't always seed my outpost turns, but when I do, I discard two scrying pools with horse traders, then play navigator to leave them on my deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on May 07, 2016, 01:13:24 pm
Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on May 07, 2016, 01:51:15 pm
Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.

This is overall not worth it, if not detrimental. Adding tons of Silver to your deck is just going to hurt Herald. The only way this is conceivable is if you're using Jack's Silver gaining ability to get some sort of payload, trashing the Silver.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on May 07, 2016, 02:07:15 pm
Herald + Jack of All Trades

I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play.  This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands.  You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn.  One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.

This is overall not worth it, if not detrimental. Adding tons of Silver to your deck is just going to hurt Herald. The only way this is conceivable is if you're using Jack's Silver gaining ability to get some sort of payload, trashing the Silver.

I don't mean adding Heralds in heavily mid-game.  I mean using the overpay tactically to win the Province split late on unlucky draws.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on May 07, 2016, 04:18:52 pm
Possession is cwazy with Mission.  In a deck-draw engine, Mission essentially doubles the number of Possession turns you take.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on May 07, 2016, 05:39:03 pm
Transmogrify can be nice with Distant Lands, if you have $4 cards you don't mind losing (Sea Hag, Moneylender, Rats, etc.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on May 07, 2016, 05:50:42 pm
Vault-Training is pretty cool.

1. open Silver/Silver
2. buy Vaults and more Silvers
3. play your first Vault, train Vaults.
4. play Vaults, find Silvers, buy Provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on May 07, 2016, 07:11:23 pm
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 08, 2016, 08:31:53 am
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Found that one out in a game with Fragsnap's Patrol (From Greed). If you trash a card costing 3 or more, you can dig for any card. That was interesting.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on May 08, 2016, 12:12:55 pm
Bank + Storyteller

Bank counts all your treasures in play, and all your Storyteller treasures are still on the table, so they might as well be worth money. Plus you draw a lot more!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 08, 2016, 12:15:22 pm
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on May 08, 2016, 10:13:55 pm
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!

A neat and potentially useful card interaction that was not previously mentioned. Who would have thought!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: XerxesPraelor on May 09, 2016, 01:40:45 am
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!

Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!

A neat and potentially useful card interaction that was not previously mentioned. Who would have thought!

Upvoted, but I guess Awaclus's point is that you should generally assume Fortress has a neat and potentially useful card interaction with every trash for benefit card unless proven otherwise.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 09, 2016, 04:38:11 am
Upvoted, but I guess Awaclus's point is that you should generally assume Fortress has a neat and potentially useful card interaction with every trash for benefit card unless proven otherwise.

Yeah. That's like saying Tunnel has a potentially useful card interaction with Dungeon. It's all but literally written on the card text of Fortress itself.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on May 09, 2016, 05:25:37 am
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on May 10, 2016, 06:45:45 am
Tunnel and Scouting Party is about as stupidly easy and good as the cards would imply. On 3/4 you can open Tunnel / double Scouting Party and end up with two golds before turn 3 more often than not. It's so stupid and kinda good. If you track your deck you probably only need 2 tunnel to generate like 8 Gold in just a few turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ponnuki on May 10, 2016, 11:31:14 am
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on May 10, 2016, 11:40:21 am
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.

You need a $4 or lower megaturn payload though. Bridge and Market Square are the only ones that immediately come to my mind.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on May 10, 2016, 01:34:28 pm
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.

Bridge, Hermit, Alms.

Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.

I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.

You need a $4 or lower megaturn payload though. Bridge and Market Square are the only ones that immediately come to my mind.

Coppersmith also (with +Buy, most obvious sources are probably Squire, Candlestick Maker, Seaway).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on May 11, 2016, 12:34:43 pm
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on May 11, 2016, 01:53:18 pm
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on May 11, 2016, 02:10:59 pm
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors

Yeah, that's a slightly different flavor of interaction.  Note that Ferry only affects the cost during your turns, so you can't use if this way 'defensively' against opponent's Actions that care about cost.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on May 13, 2016, 06:45:54 pm
Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice. King's court lets you play it three times. But royal carriage can let you play the single knight you got from the black market deck up to 10 times per turn.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160513/log.0.1463179304694.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on May 13, 2016, 07:00:27 pm
Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice.

Who are you, and why is the answer ErrinF?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Orange on May 13, 2016, 11:07:12 pm
Royal carriage/Black Market

Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice. King's court lets you play it three times. But royal carriage can let you play the single knight you got from the black market deck up to 10 times per turn.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160513/log.0.1463179304694.txt

11 times
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on May 14, 2016, 02:26:39 am
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.)  You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate).  Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck.  Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something. 

With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.

Not sure if it's ever really worth it.

Warrior can trash opponents' 5s and 6s if you ferried them first. Given the potential depth of Warrior's attack, it's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on May 17, 2016, 07:08:36 pm
Cultist + Lost Arts

It's well-established that Lost Arts is really good with terminal draw. However, it also turns Cultist into a village - if for example you start your turn by chaining 3 Cultists, you end up with 3 Actions, to play all your other terminal actions!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on May 19, 2016, 06:02:19 am
Spy+Peasant.

Gain many spies.
Cycle your cards with spies a bit faster (little bonus).
Discard opponent travellers (great bonus).
If necessary, put teachers +card on spy.
Play a soldier after many spies that gives you tons of coins.

Guess that many players won't anticipate the latter ...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on May 19, 2016, 06:10:34 am
Spy+Peasant.

Gain many spies.
Cycle your cards with spies a bit faster (little bonus).
Discard opponent travellers (great bonus).
If necessary, put teachers +card on spy.
Play a soldier after many spies that gives you tons of coins.

Guess that many players won't anticipate the latter ...

I've done this with Scrying Pool. The advantage is that Scrying Pool gives you lots of draw, and if you put the +Action token on Pool you can support lots of Soldiers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Zaphod on May 21, 2016, 03:46:54 am
Rebuild + Duplicate

In a Rebuild duel, one of the keys is getting more Duchies than your opponent.  Rebuilding an Estate into a Duchy, then calling Duplicates to gain additional Duchies, can be a real game changer.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Cuzz on May 25, 2016, 03:11:35 pm
This is along the lines of "Fortress + literally any TfB," but man, Fortress + Transmogrify is sweet. Gaining key 5s in hand on the exact turns when you already have a village in hand is nice. Used this to pile out Distant Lands in a few turns, banking them all without any ever hitting the discard pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on May 25, 2016, 03:45:32 pm
Bonfire / Alms can be cool cus you can play Coppers, trash them, then get something with Alms because your Coppers are not in play anymore.  Needs a bit of support though, like at least 1 virtual coin and +buy.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160525/log.0.1464150890191.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on May 27, 2016, 11:53:16 am
Duplicate + Duke

Pretty much the same idea as rebuild + duplicate.  Here duplicates can also get you more dukes, and let you wait a bit on things to avoid clogging your deck with green as much.  If you're not being mirrored, you can get most of the duchies, building up duplicates on your tavern mat, and when the game is about to end, hit 5, gaining a bunch of dukes all at once.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on May 27, 2016, 06:33:30 pm
I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on May 27, 2016, 09:55:53 pm
I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.


http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160525/log.0.1464213085220.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on May 27, 2016, 10:59:20 pm
I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.

Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
The problem is often you start with 3 card hands in a mercenary game so this is bad as your olny draw. (Hard to line up mercenary,fortress *2 after playing a fortress)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: jsh357 on May 30, 2016, 08:05:26 am
Artificer/Poor House. This seems like a killer combo. Discard hand, gain something good, play remaining Poor House for an extra $4.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on May 30, 2016, 08:25:05 am
This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Psyduck on May 31, 2016, 04:01:26 am
Artificer/Poor House. This seems like a killer combo. Discard hand, gain something good, play remaining Poor House for an extra $4.

Played a game with Artificer/Library recently. THAT was nice.
I guess Artificer is often strong when you want reduced hand size. Should be really good with Menagerie for example.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on May 31, 2016, 10:16:27 am
This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.

This might be ok, but as Villa doesn't give +1 card, you don't want a deck full of them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: amoffett11 on May 31, 2016, 11:39:45 am
I guess Artificer is often strong when you want reduced hand size. Should be really good with Menagerie for example.

I've had a couple games with Artificer and Menagerie, and they work REALLY well together.  Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.  Anyways, you can play Artificer, discard all your doubles (or more if you want a better card), and then play Menagerie to draw 3 more cards.  It quickly becomes easy to do this several times in a turn. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: SirSlugma on May 31, 2016, 12:19:12 pm
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 31, 2016, 12:26:55 pm
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Psyduck on May 31, 2016, 12:48:02 pm
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.

Warehouse and Oasis can work as well, but usually they need at least some support.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on May 31, 2016, 03:44:11 pm
Rebuild + Duplicate

In a Rebuild duel, one of the keys is getting more Duchies than your opponent.  Rebuilding an Estate into a Duchy, then calling Duplicates to gain additional Duchies, can be a real game changer.

I just did this in a game (thanks for the tip!), and at one point I Rebuilt a Duchy into the last two Duchies, rather than a Province. My opponent resigned soon after.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on May 31, 2016, 07:58:05 pm
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card?  I can't think of another.

Hamlet?  Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.

Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.

Warehouse and Oasis can work as well, but usually they need at least some support.

Warehouse draws before you discard, so you're not really discarding for the benefit.  The benefit on Oasis is not contingent on the discard either.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 01, 2016, 12:51:56 am
Wandering winder blogged about opening probabilities with 3p here:
http://wanderingwindergames.blogspot.com/2015/05/opening-probabilities-hitting-3p.html (http://wanderingwindergames.blogspot.com/2015/05/opening-probabilities-hitting-3p.html)
Ferry and hitting 3 potions
So long as your potion doesn't miss the shuffle you are guaranteed hit 3p on your first shuffle.
That probability of hitting 3p becomes  90.91%
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on June 02, 2016, 02:11:51 pm
So, Travelling Fair/Philosopher's Stone is not nearly as good as Travelling Fair/Counting House, but it can still make you win on weak Colony boards. One more situation in which Phil Stone is usable. Who knew.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on June 03, 2016, 09:27:13 pm
This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.

This might be ok, but as Villa doesn't give +1 card, you don't want a deck full of them.
Yeah, but the point is with all the extra money you can fill your deck with cards you DO want, specially terminal draw like catacombs. And you could always pathfind them.  ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 07, 2016, 12:20:40 am
Herbalist + encampment
Herbalist can topdeck gold to make your encampment stay in your deck and it's + buy is useful for draining the pile.
Edit:ninja'd by wachsmuth in his initial reactions video.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on June 07, 2016, 01:23:26 am
Mission + Baths: $4 for 4VP.

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.

Death Cart + Advance: Pick up lots of fodder to gain expensive actions easily.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on June 07, 2016, 02:23:54 am
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on June 07, 2016, 04:16:33 am
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)

You got me.

Edge cases: Bonfire, Mining Village, other self-trashing actions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 07, 2016, 08:37:34 am
Mission + Baths: $4 for 4VP.

Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.

Death Cart + Advance: Pick up lots of fodder to gain expensive actions easily.
Charm really works well with prince because if you play any actions you cannot get province and it is really hard to get more than 1 crown in play and still have 8.
Ninj'd
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on June 08, 2016, 03:46:02 am
Capital+Herbalist: Don't discard your insane 6$.
Capital+Mandarin: Same here. Not quite a combo, because you don't want that many mandarins.
Capital+Mint: Same here, but you'll be a bit sad to trash your 5-cost just to avoid the debt.
Capital+Crown: Get your 6 twice before discarding is really nice.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on June 08, 2016, 10:33:51 am
Capital+Herbalist: Don't discard your insane 6$.
Capital+Mandarin: Same here. Not quite a combo, because you don't want that many mandarins.
Capital+Mint: Same here, but you'll be a bit sad to trash your 5-cost just to avoid the debt.
Capital+Crown: Get your 6 twice before discarding is really nice.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

Noteworthy that Capital also gives a Buy, so with Crown and Counterfeit, you get two Buys (three with Counterfeit).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Sidsel on June 08, 2016, 11:06:20 am

Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

I want to make some snarky comment here about real world finance wheedling money out of nothing and running away from the debt...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 08, 2016, 11:15:38 am

Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.

I want to make some snarky comment here about real world finance wheedling money out of nothing and running away from the debt...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 08, 2016, 12:23:43 pm
Donate + t-map
Open tmap silver
Get tmap turn 3
Get donate turn 4 trashing down to a deck of tmap*2 and silver paying off as much depth as possible
Activate tmap + pay off two dept turn 5
Pay off rest of debt. turn 6 have a deck containing 4 golds and a silver
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on June 08, 2016, 03:49:57 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 08, 2016, 03:54:49 pm
Coin of the realm + Legionary
Coin of the realm counters Legionary by letting you keep two draw cards instead of a village and a draw card. If you have 4 coins of the realm and terminal draw you can usually draw your deck despite Legionary Harsh attack. Remember to alternate your coins of the realm.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on June 08, 2016, 05:41:02 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 08, 2016, 06:16:35 pm
Raze + tunnel
This is probably bad but
Raze golds to reveal 6 cards into your hand. Put raze or gold into your hand and rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on June 08, 2016, 06:19:34 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

You would still get an extra $4 without giving your opponent(s) one.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on June 08, 2016, 06:21:05 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

You would still get an extra $4 without giving your opponent(s) one.

Well, in that case it's essentially a free Messenger with your $4 card.  If you wanted a free Messenger, that can be good - but really, why do you want Messenger in a Possession game?  You want to use your terminal space on Possessions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on June 09, 2016, 09:42:11 am
Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 09, 2016, 10:44:14 am
Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 09, 2016, 12:06:09 pm
Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donate
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 09, 2016, 12:40:11 pm
Legionary/Masqerade.

Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.

I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donate

All true. You still end up with a 3 card hand, but man, you could draw something better, but it has to be almost certainly worse.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on June 09, 2016, 01:05:15 pm
Ambassador/Defiled Shrine or Ambassador/Triumph

Keep the VP tokens, Ambassador the Curse/Estate to your opponent.

Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 09, 2016, 01:29:57 pm
Ambassador/Defiled Shrine or Ambassador/Triumph

Keep the VP tokens, Ambassador the Curse/Estate to your opponent.

This works even better with Watchtower.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on June 10, 2016, 01:03:39 pm
Ferry / Band of Misfits

You can Ferry a BoM so it's only $3, so that you can gain them easily.  But then when you play the BoM's, they can only be played as $2's (if there are any $2's).  You can then later move the Ferry token to a different pile, then now your BoM's are more useful.  So the question is: When do you want to make that transition?  It's nice that they're cheap, but bad that they're useless; then later, it's nice that they're useful and you have a lot of them, but that came with the opportunity cost of not being able to reap their benefits until now.

Example game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160602/log.0.1464902019423.txt
In this game, I didn't even realize the BoM would only be able to be played as $2's until I played one, haha (I've also made the similar mistake with Border Village -- not realizing that you can't gain a $5 with your Ferry'd BV).  Hermit to gain BoM easily.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on June 12, 2016, 04:40:38 pm
Transmogrify/Cultist

If you have a Cultist in hand, you can call Transmogrify for +3 cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on June 12, 2016, 07:15:43 pm
Wedding / Legionary: Get Gold cheap so your Legionaries are always active.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on June 15, 2016, 12:36:38 pm
Capital + Storyteller

Play a storyteller with capital for 6 extra cards.  By itself, this isn't anything special since it still gives you debt, but if you can find a way around the debt via a megaturn or just not buying things, it can be powerful.  To illustrate, with artificer you can draw your deck with storyteller+capital and use artificer to gain more of each of these cards.  Once you get going, you can just start gaining provinces with artificer and drawing back the cards you discarded with storyteller+capital.  I realize that Storyteller + Artificer is itself a strong combo, but Capital really seems to do a lot with it, keeping you from having to buy more than a couple other treasures.

I mostly just like the idea of accruing a huge pile of debt that you never intend to pay back.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: amoffett11 on June 15, 2016, 01:57:45 pm
Transmogrify/Cultist

If you have a Cultist in hand, you can call Transmogrify for +3 cards.

Even if you're just transmogrifying it into another Cultist!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on June 17, 2016, 01:26:14 am
Encampment/Herbalist: Make sure you always have a Gold/Plunder in hand to reveal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on June 17, 2016, 08:21:13 am
Ferry/Grand Market: Make use of your Workshops/Ironworks/Armories and much more
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on June 17, 2016, 12:32:51 pm
Treasure Trove + Gardens

Even by itself, this is decent.  Open Silver/Silver, get a bunch of treasure troves, then buy gardens while flooding your deck with cards from TT.  I haven't tried this with a simulator, but I think it's roughly on par with Gear/BM.  If you have the time, it might be worth picking up a province, since 8 gardens with 50+ cards and a province beats 7 provinces (and a duchy).  A decent source of +buy (or banquet) would definitely help this, though it might also enable a gardens rush, which would likely beat TT+G as it's fairly important to pick up the treasure troves before the gardens with this.

Banquet + IGG

With banquet, it's not too hard to buy an IGG every turn from turn 1 until they run out.  At this point, you'll hopefully be at a point where you can hit 5 on most turns to rush the duchies (or better yet, gardens).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on June 17, 2016, 02:11:46 pm
Treasure Map + Triumph

On the turn that you hit two Treasure Maps, buy Triumph.  You can easily pay off the debt next turn and still have plenty left over.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on June 17, 2016, 08:20:33 pm
Encampment/Herbalist: Make sure you always have a Gold/Plunder in hand to reveal.
I just played a game with this last night, and it worked well.  The downside is that with only 5 Encampments, it becomes less useful if you're contested (of course, unless your opponent is mirroring, you'll likely get those Encampments back eventually).  As added synergy, the Encampments leave you with extra actions for Herbalist, and the +buy from Herbalist is useful in picking up cheap Encampments.

Theoretically, Legionary also has some synergy with Herbalist, but I doubt it's as good; both are non-drawing terminals, so without an engine, you're less likely to get them to work together reliably, and with an engine, you can just wait to play Legionary after you've drawn your Gold (I'd still say Herbalist is slightly better in a deck with Legionary than in a deck without, but it's probably not a big difference).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on June 18, 2016, 12:47:46 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

Well, it works on Making Fun (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160608/log.0.1465415485098.txt) (turn 12 [possessed]).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on June 18, 2016, 01:37:55 pm
Possession - Messenger

Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!

I don't think this works.

Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect.  Messenger says:

"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."

The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained.  Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.

Well, it works on Making Fun (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160608/log.0.1465415485098.txt) (turn 12 [possessed]).

Looks like a bug, which isn't too surprising.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on June 19, 2016, 10:55:46 am
Windfall + Villa

Play enough cards to draw your deck and have $9 and two buys. Buy Windfall, gain 3 Gold; buy Villa, returning to your Action phase; play some other actions to draw your new Gold.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on June 20, 2016, 10:06:39 am
Artificer + Inheritance

As a Peddler variant, Artificer helps you reach $7.  Inherit some good 3 or 4-cost card.  Use Artificer to gain and topdeck super Estates for only two cards.  I used this to good effect in this game (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160619/log.0.1466368093642.txt).

Chariot Race + Spy/Scrying Pool/Sea Hag

Rig the race by leaving a Copper or Curse on top of your opponent's deck!  Hardly game-breaking, but it's a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on June 20, 2016, 02:24:16 pm
Stonemason + Groundskeeper

Ordinarily, trashing a province for two duchies isn't so great, but when you have five Groundskeepers in play, it nets you 10 VP.  And it didn't cost you anything, so now you can buy another duchy for 8 VP.  Also, Stonemason overpay is a good way to get all those Groundskeepers in the first place.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on June 20, 2016, 06:21:47 pm
Windfall + Villa

Play enough cards to draw your deck and have $9 and two buys. Buy Windfall, gain 3 Gold; buy Villa, returning to your Action phase; play some other actions to draw your new Gold.

if you have haggler in play and watchtower in hand you can buy windfall and cultist gaining villa and trashing cultist; every iteration you will have exactly ten from 3 golds and villa, so you can three-pile in one turn.

(I know what we're thinking about hmm... let me see... 5-card combos but it feels so nice!)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on June 22, 2016, 02:08:42 pm
Royal Carriage / Menagerie

Play your Menagerie.  If it would be activated again, call your RC; else, don't.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 22, 2016, 02:47:51 pm
Royal Carriage / Menagerie

Play your Menagerie.  If it would be activated again, call your RC; else, don't.

I love Royal Carriage because it can do stuff like this in general. You can decide based off of your first draw if you want to play it again or not. More knowledge is an ability Throne Room did not give you, you just had to play it blindly and hope.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on June 23, 2016, 06:44:50 am
From the discussion on another thread:

Donate + Outpost

The Donate effect is executed between turns, which means the three cards for the Outpost extra moves are discarded and replaced by five. The two extra cards drawn will unlikely afford the payload to pay off the debt, but may provide the springload to get a draw-your-deck engine going more reliably. This is one of the rather rare occurrences we might see more than one Donations (without using its trashing ability) per player and match.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on June 23, 2016, 09:27:04 am
Treasure Trove + Gardens

Even by itself, this is decent.  Open Silver/Silver, get a bunch of treasure troves, then buy gardens while flooding your deck with cards from TT.  I haven't tried this with a simulator, but I think it's roughly on par with Gear/BM.  If you have the time, it might be worth picking up a province, since 8 gardens with 50+ cards and a province beats 7 provinces (and a duchy).  A decent source of +buy (or banquet) would definitely help this, though it might also enable a gardens rush, which would likely beat TT+G as it's fairly important to pick up the treasure troves before the gardens with this.

Treasure Trove is amazing in all sorts of alt-VP slogs. Duke and Silk Road love it too. It's like Cache, but way better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on June 24, 2016, 07:36:42 pm
Quest- Haunted Woods

Quest completely nullifies Haunted Woods' attack, provided you have an unneeded buy. Just discard theresof your hand (hopefully <6 cards). Note: You should remember that this needs to be your first buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on June 26, 2016, 04:28:38 am
Here's one that came up recently (so i didn't make this up):
Mint/Wedding/Duchess (or Poor House)
Open Mint/Duchess, hope to hit $4 with Duchess and the Coppers, buy Wedding, Mint Gold. Of course Mint/Wedding is strong on it's own, but only a Silver for $2 or less will help you pick up Wedding by as early as turn 3.

Similarly, Mint/Traveller makes sure you will get through that Traveller line in the matter of a few turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on June 26, 2016, 09:31:09 am
Mint and a lot of debt cards synerize
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on June 26, 2016, 09:46:14 am
Mint and a lot of debt cards synerize

That's a very good point, though Wedding seems especially relevant for providing a target for Mint.

Although, thinking about it, Borrow would have been even better than Duchess, ensuring a Mint/Silver opening and making it easier to reach $4 later on, too. Of course, that event has a lot of relevant interactions, and the fun with Duchess was how weak it is otherwise.
(Actually i didn't use Duchess in the game we played, but my own card, Sheriff - but Duchess fills the same gap.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on June 26, 2016, 12:05:43 pm
You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on June 26, 2016, 01:09:44 pm
You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on June 26, 2016, 01:20:11 pm
Charm + Groundskeeper

Really good synergy here. +Buy useful for picking up Estates or Duchy in the end game for max points. The other half of Charm lets you gain Groundskeepers for free with other $5 cost engine parts (or Duchy).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on June 26, 2016, 02:26:41 pm
Governor/Apprentice: If you play a Governor deck, especially in a mirror, you won't run out of stuff to use as Apprentice fodder. On the flipside, you don't have to use the +Cards on Governor as often, which is useful because you really don't want to help your opponent that much.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on June 26, 2016, 02:39:13 pm
You can Mint a Fortune.  If only that were actually a useful thing to do.
stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things

Or just keep the second one for increased reliability in a deck that doesn't fully draw itself.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on June 26, 2016, 03:21:44 pm
Charm + Groundskeeper

Really good synergy here. +Buy useful for picking up Estates or Duchy in the end game for max points. The other half of Charm lets you gain Groundskeepers for free with other $5 cost engine parts (or Duchy).

You can do some crazy stuff in the end game as well. Stack up Charms with Groundskeepers, and buy a Charm or the last Groundskeeper, piling out the rest of the Duchies (and netting tons of VP) in one buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on June 27, 2016, 10:41:29 pm
Stonemason + Grand Market

With 8 coins, you can circumvent Grand Market's on buy restriction and gain two of them (plus a Stonemason)!  At the end of the game you can use your Stonemasons to trash some Grand Markets for Duchies (if appropriate).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on June 28, 2016, 02:02:39 am
Stonemason + Grand Market

With 8 coins, you can circumvent Grand Market's on buy restriction and gain two of them (plus a Stonemason)!  At the end of the game you can use your Stonemasons to trash some Grand Markets for Duchies (if appropriate).

One caveat with that is that the big chain X still goes up over the GMs if you have Coppers in play, and so you don't know how many are left (annoying if, say, you can't remember if there are 1 or 2 left).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on June 28, 2016, 02:49:12 am
Forge + Fortress

Needs at least one draw card to really work. Aim for an early Forge, picking up Fortresses along the way. You then use Forge to slim down your deck, ideally picking up a 2nd Forge if you can, and Forge 2 Fortress -> Province repeatedly.

This isn't as convoluted as it sounds, because you can get away with trashing almost all of your treasures once you get a Forge. If Forge doesn't collide with 2 Fortresses, you can often trash 1 Fortress to gain another, or trash Fortress + Silver to gain another Forge, or trash Province to Province.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on July 04, 2016, 12:08:24 am
bridge troll + alms
You can now alms 5 costers  two turns in a row. This is really good in the opening because bridge troll is light house normally for your economy during the first two turns.
On a five two this is incredibly good because you can get a 4 cost a bridge trolls and two miscellaneous 5 costs after the first two shuffles.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ben_king on July 05, 2016, 09:12:04 am
Port + City Quarter

Not a crazy, broken interaction, but a nice way to quickly build up action density so that City Quarter draws a lot of cards.  Along that same vein, I haven't had a board with this particular two-card combo yet, but I assume that Magpie + City Quarter is also a "neat and potentially useful card interaction."
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on July 05, 2016, 09:18:37 am
Baths + Miser

Miser is okay but you sure do spend a lot of turns not doing anything. Baths makes those turns actually really productive! This applies to any Trasher really but better trashers are more likely to be contested by multiple opponents and the strategy just kind of cancels out then.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on July 08, 2016, 05:36:16 pm
Artificer + Hermit

Get a few artificers and madmen, and gain several provinces in one megaturn.  Artificer both helps you gain the provinces, and also increases your deck size (which you want), doing something useful on the turns where you turn your hermits into madmen.  Since you really need around 25 cards for this to go off, it might be better to not trash your estates with hermit, especially since you're mostly not buying things anyway.  A cheap source of +buy helps you buy extra green at the end of the megaturn if you have cards left in your hand.

This isn't anything amazing, but not terrible.  Without +buy it seems to be roughly on par with Gear BM.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on July 11, 2016, 08:57:26 pm
Artificer / Menagerie

Discard some cards, topdeck a Menagerie, play your other Menagerie, repeat
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 11, 2016, 09:06:23 pm
Sacrifice/Great Hall/Ironworks

A legitimate rush strategy. Gain Great Halls with Ironworks, trash them for a net VP gain with Sacrifice while also drawing cards. A good way to get some points while building up.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Loschmidt on July 12, 2016, 01:23:43 am
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 12, 2016, 01:30:38 am
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on July 12, 2016, 07:43:58 am
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

$4 for 2 VP no cards is pretty good actually. I think it's gonna take awhile for people to get how much better buying static amounts of VP without a card attached can be. Obviously you can't always just skip actual Victory cards but VP is good man
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 12, 2016, 10:16:33 am
Salt The Earth + Tomb is actually a viable combination.

Open Steward/Salt The Earth on Province. You have +2 VP already.

Assuming good shuffles, you only need to trash 2 Estates with Steward before you get guaranteed $4 every turn. So let's assume you get to Steward trash 2 Estates T3. (for 2 more VP!)

After that, you get to buy Salt The Earth every turn.

The Provinces will be emptied by Turn 10, and you will have 18 VP. Not bad at all. That's the equivalent of 3 provinces in 10 Turns. It is important to note that your opponent will have thinned down as well, netting him some VP as well. But assuming a weaker board with no +buy or gains, this could be a legitimate way to win a game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on July 12, 2016, 10:20:59 am
I wonder, in a game with Salt the Earth and Tomb, with $8 and 2 buys, if it's better to buy a Province or trash two. I guess that could be a thing for the simulator.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on July 12, 2016, 10:54:03 am
I wonder, in a game with Salt the Earth and Tomb, with $8 and 2 buys, if it's better to buy a Province or trash two. I guess that could be a thing for the simulator.
Depends if you are ahead or not.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 12, 2016, 11:51:18 am
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

$4 for 2 VP no cards is pretty good actually. I think it's gonna take awhile for people to get how much better buying static amounts of VP without a card attached can be. Obviously you can't always just skip actual Victory cards but VP is good man


My point was that it's not nearly good enough to buy nothing else. For example, in Seprix's example an opponent could easily win just by buying an early Province or two, considering they also get bonus VP from thinning and can likewise use Salt the Earth to pile out after.  Both players would have to contest Provinces some to be competitive.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on July 12, 2016, 08:30:40 pm
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 12, 2016, 10:44:10 pm
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.

Someone should take it to the simulators.  I'm still not convinced though.

Can you reach $4 seven times before I reach $8 twice?  It's not so clear cut to me, but I actually lean toward no.  Suppose you start going at it immediately.  You're hitting $4 every 2 turns, so you need 13-14 turns.  That's certainly enough time for me to get 2 Provinces, even with pure Big Money.  You can buy other cards to improve your rate, but that also usually costs a turn for each card you pick up, and the vast majority of economy cards are geared toward helping you get more total coin on a given turn rather than helping you consistently hit $4, so I don't think you get much help there.  (It also violates the part that I was arguing against -- that you don't need to bother ever buying cards.)

But it's even more complicated.  What if I build up a little, buy a Province and maybe a Duchy or two while Salting along side you?  There are lots of ways this could play out.  If there's a trasher on the board, how does that figure into either strategy (with Tomb VP)?

Salt the Earth + Tomb certainly belongs in this thread as a neat interaction, and it's definitely something to watch out for.  I only take issue with the idea that you don't need to buy anything else.  2VP isn't all that much so while the Province-piling is a threat, I think the player who builds up a little can take control pretty easily.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on July 12, 2016, 11:32:07 pm
Salt the earth + Tomb

Why bother ever buying cards

Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P

Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.

Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.

Someone should take it to the simulators.  I'm still not convinced though.

Can you reach $4 seven times before I reach $8 twice?  It's not so clear cut to me, but I actually lean toward no.  Suppose you start going at it immediately.  You're hitting $4 every 2 turns, so you need 13-14 turns.  That's certainly enough time for me to get 2 Provinces, even with pure Big Money.  You can buy other cards to improve your rate, but that also usually costs a turn for each card you pick up, and the vast majority of economy cards are geared toward helping you get more total coin on a given turn rather than helping you consistently hit $4, so I don't think you get much help there.  (It also violates the part that I was arguing against -- that you don't need to bother ever buying cards.)

But it's even more complicated.  What if I build up a little, buy a Province and maybe a Duchy or two while Salting along side you?  There are lots of ways this could play out.  If there's a trasher on the board, how does that figure into either strategy (with Tomb VP)?

Salt the Earth + Tomb certainly belongs in this thread as a neat interaction, and it's definitely something to watch out for.  I only take issue with the idea that you don't need to buy anything else.  2VP isn't all that much so while the Province-piling is a threat, I think the player who builds up a little can take control pretty easily.
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 13, 2016, 01:58:20 am
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.

But that's buying a card, which was deemed unnecessary at the start. ;)

So I tried some super simple simulation via proxy on Dominiate (http://rspeer.github.io/dominiate/play.html) to answer Asper's question: "Can I reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice?"

Here's the code for the Salt strategy:

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'PureSalt'
  requires: ['Great Hall']
  gainPriority: (state, my) ->
    if state.supply.Colony?
      [
      ]
    else
      [
          "Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
          "Silver"
      ]
}

Great Hall is a proxy for Salt the Earth here.  It buys StE with 4+ and Silver otherwise.  Obviously I can't run this thousands of times to see what wins, but I can run single games a few times and check the game log to see when the 7th Great Hall is purchased.

Results from 10 trials:

10
10
9
10
9
8
10
11
10
11

Mean: 9.8
Mode: 10 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns once, a slow 11 turns twice.

Now here's a naive Smithy bot that rushes Provinces. 

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'RushSmithy'
  requires: ['Smithy']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"   
    "Gold"
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
             and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

When does it buy the second Province?  10 trials:
10
13
8
11
8
8
10
10
8
8

Mean: 9.4
Mode: 8 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns a whopping 5 times, but a slow 11 turns once and an abysmal 13 turns once. 

It's close, but it looks to me like going for Provinces has an edge here.  Pure Salt is more consistent while the rush can be pretty blistering to 2 Provinces.  However, these are both naive approaches, and I'd guess that the rush has overall more control and flexibility which will give it the edge when played responsively.  OTOH, buying the 2nd Province vs. the 6 StE buys is only achieving an equal score, so that's a point in Salt's favour.

There's lots of strategic wiggle room here for optimization though -- the rush might be using something worse than Smithy, both parties could be buying/trashing Duchy, the Province rush could potentially make use of Salt the Earth as well.

But I think my argument stands.  You shouldn't neglect buying cards even if you intend to Salt all the way down.  You should certainly take Silver at least, and you will probably be better served by buying at least a few other things as well.

Edit: I also just noticed the second Smithy rule in the rush bot that is unlikely to be optimal.  I just edited down the SmithyBM bot and didn't give it much thought, but I'm guessing that getting the second Smithy earlier or not at all may be better (with the current rule, it's probably a waste of time when it happens).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on July 13, 2016, 02:04:33 am
Something to think about, what if the opposing player goes for Duchies against the Salt Rush
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Davio on July 13, 2016, 05:08:27 am
Ran into Scheme + Teacher yesterday, turning Schemes into Alchemists without Potion is pretty fun.
Also, Scheming called Teachers to immediately get another benefit next turn.

Pathfinding + Hamlet is also a nice combo since Hamlets make it easier to buy more Hamlets. Those $2 cards that can give you a buy and can turn into cantrips or Labs are fun. Candlestick Maker into Market and Squire into Bazaar also seems like a pretty sweet deal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 13, 2016, 11:38:26 am
Something to think about, what if the opposing player goes for Duchies against the Salt Rush

I hope we call it the Salt Rush from now on.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Davio on July 13, 2016, 01:53:34 pm
Man, I'm having lots of fun with Adventures.

Opened Tunnel -> Scouting Party for a turn 2 Gold today (5/6 chance of hitting).
The rest of the board was pretty lame, so Scouting Party with Tunnel was a pretty fun strategy.
There was also Cellar.

Lots of turns of $10+ (because Golds) where you can just do Scouting Party + Province.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Loschmidt on July 13, 2016, 10:50:54 pm
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.

But that's buying a card, which was deemed unnecessary at the start. ;)

So I tried some super simple simulation via proxy on Dominiate (http://rspeer.github.io/dominiate/play.html) to answer Asper's question: "Can I reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice?"

Here's the code for the Salt strategy:

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'PureSalt'
  requires: ['Great Hall']
  gainPriority: (state, my) ->
    if state.supply.Colony?
      [
      ]
    else
      [
          "Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
          "Silver"
      ]
}

Great Hall is a proxy for Salt the Earth here.  It buys StE with 4+ and Silver otherwise.  Obviously I can't run this thousands of times to see what wins, but I can run single games a few times and check the game log to see when the 7th Great Hall is purchased.

Results from 10 trials:

10
10
9
10
9
8
10
11
10
11

Mean: 9.8
Mode: 10 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns once, a slow 11 turns twice.

Now here's a naive Smithy bot that rushes Provinces. 

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'RushSmithy'
  requires: ['Smithy']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"   
    "Gold"
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
             and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
    "Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

When does it buy the second Province?  10 trials:
10
13
8
11
8
8
10
10
8
8

Mean: 9.4
Mode: 8 (5 times)

It hit a speedy 8 turns a whopping 5 times, but a slow 11 turns once and an abysmal 13 turns once. 

It's close, but it looks to me like going for Provinces has an edge here.  Pure Salt is more consistent while the rush can be pretty blistering to 2 Provinces.  However, these are both naive approaches, and I'd guess that the rush has overall more control and flexibility which will give it the edge when played responsively.  OTOH, buying the 2nd Province vs. the 6 StE buys is only achieving an equal score, so that's a point in Salt's favour.

There's lots of strategic wiggle room here for optimization though -- the rush might be using something worse than Smithy, both parties could be buying/trashing Duchy, the Province rush could potentially make use of Salt the Earth as well.

But I think my argument stands.  You shouldn't neglect buying cards even if you intend to Salt all the way down.  You should certainly take Silver at least, and you will probably be better served by buying at least a few other things as well.

Edit: I also just noticed the second Smithy rule in the rush bot that is unlikely to be optimal.  I just edited down the SmithyBM bot and didn't give it much thought, but I'm guessing that getting the second Smithy earlier or not at all may be better (with the current rule, it's probably a waste of time when it happens).

Wow!

You know I just said "why bother buying cards" flippantly, like "here's a lazy scenario where you can get points and do nothing". I never expected it to be good, or even okay. This is the "neat and potentially useful" thread not the "dominant strategy" thread.

I am amazed straight up Salt/Silver can beat a naive smithy BM even occasionally. Although wait we're not running the head to head are we, smithyBM would notice the low provinces and start getting Duchy over gold before that. You'd only need a few Duchies for the smithyBM to break it.

This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 13, 2016, 11:00:54 pm
The 'Pure Salt' strategy. Salt The Earth just has the best name ever.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 13, 2016, 11:12:35 pm
This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....

Any strategy can use StE to accelerate the end game. An engine can probably use it better by generating plenty of coin and buys to Salt multiple times, though BM strategies can probably use it sooner to exert pressure. Tomb isn't needed for this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on July 13, 2016, 11:17:06 pm
This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....

Any strategy can use StE to accelerate the end game. An engine can probably use it better by generating plenty of coin and buys to Salt multiple times, though BM strategies can probably use it sooner to exert pressure. Tomb isn't needed for this.
The problem is that after a few provinces the bm player can just salt mill provinces(kinda like a rebuild player)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on July 16, 2016, 12:36:36 pm
Bonfire + Poor House

I think there's something to be said about using Bonfire to quickly trash 6 Coppers and then buying a Poor House with your 1 remaining Copper and going from there.  Note that you have a 50% chance of affording Bonfire on T3 in this case.

Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160715/log.0.1468568762911.txt

EDIT:
Assuming a 4/3 opening.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on July 19, 2016, 08:52:36 am
Storyteller + Treasure Trove

If you play Treasure Trove to Storyteller, you gain the Copper and Gold before the draw portion of Storyteller, so it's easy to draw them into hand immediately!  As usual, this is especially powerful if you have some way to trash the Coppers and/or the Golds (for value).  But, Storyteller loves Gold and can sift through Copper, so you don't need to trash them.

I put this synergy to use in this game: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160719/log.0.1468893006148.txt (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160719/log.0.1468893006148.txt)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 19, 2016, 10:22:35 am
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on July 19, 2016, 10:35:32 am
Messenger + Split Piles

Kind of minor, but if you grab the last card off the top of a split pile with Messenger's on-buy, nobody else gets one!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 19, 2016, 11:47:56 am
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 19, 2016, 01:42:29 pm
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.

Well, yes. Who is going to buy Distant Lands with an immanent ending?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on July 19, 2016, 01:51:36 pm
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon

Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.

Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.

Well, yes. Who is going to buy Distant Lands with an immanent ending?

Was responding to "without having to buy and play". You still play it. :P

Who buys with imminent ending? Well, you don't buy with Summon, but it could be someone who didn't realize the game was endable on the opponent's next turn, or someone who was hoping that the opponent would be unable to. Or someone 3-piling on Distant Lands, never mind the 4VP.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 19, 2016, 02:12:20 pm
Okay, enough edgecases. If such a scenario happened then of course something different would have to be done.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on July 21, 2016, 11:02:54 am
Watchtower + Villa

Not really a whole lot here that hasn't been seen before with similar combinations, but there's a lot that these two cards like about each other:

1. Villa doesn't draw a card, making Watchtower's draw more effective.
2. Normally having a dead watchtower isn't bad cause it lets you topdeck stuff.  Now you can topdeck something, and if you can also get a villa, draw it with watchtower and play it.
3. Maybe the best part: play your treasures, get a villa, now your hand is small for your watchtower to draw lots of cards.  It feels like storyteller, except you actually get to use the money you play.

One drawback is that this chokes pretty easily on green/junk you can't play.  Estate trashing helps a lot, and gaining is also good as you can often topdeck the gains and play them in the same turn.  Putting these together, remodel variants are just awesome with this.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on July 21, 2016, 11:15:16 am
Villa is basically a crappy Festival once the on-gain effect is done, so it makes sense that it comboes with Watchtower.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on July 21, 2016, 09:16:55 pm
Mission/tfb/Quest: I had a game recently where i used my regular turn to tfb Gold into Provinces, bought Mission, and bought Quest to get my Gold back. I guess it works whenever you want a Gold for $4, but this was especially nice as remodeling works on the mission turn also.

Also: Mission/Baths.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on July 21, 2016, 09:31:30 pm
Also: Mission/Baths.

Keep in mind that Baths only works if you didn't gain a card on your turn, which negates most other Mission tricks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on July 21, 2016, 10:27:30 pm
Also: Mission/Baths.

Keep in mind that Baths only works if you didn't gain a card on your turn, which negates most other Mission tricks.

Well, like Salt the Earth/Tomb before, it's at the very least 2VP for $4, as long as it's there. And you can still attack or trash down.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on July 26, 2016, 08:57:37 am
Masterpiece/Capital
Easy one. Spike as high as you can to flood your deck with Silvers, then pay off the debt in a yiffie. I only did this twice and ended up with 23 Silvers. Obviously doesn't work well against discard attacks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mail-mi on July 26, 2016, 01:24:39 pm
Tomb/Watchtower

Use all your extra buys to buy and trash coppers for VPs. And, the one that came up in the game I played: Banquet/Tomb/Watchtower. Banquet is (edgecases aside) strictly superior to any non-victory card costing up to 5 with a watchtower in hand.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on July 26, 2016, 01:34:06 pm
Goons + Donate

With donate, hopefully it shouldn't require too much help to build a deck capable of playing 3-4 goons a turn.  At this point, you can buy a bunch of copper and get donate with your last buy to trash them.  Similar to goons watchtower, though donate helps you get the engine running more quickly and requires you to pay off the debt each turn.  Probably with donate on the board there are a number of powerful strategies, though 16 points a turn seems pretty good if you can reliably get 4 goons in play.  Obviously, if you can fit in other +buy as well, it will do a lot for you.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on July 29, 2016, 09:47:06 pm
Transmute + Bonfire

This is a bit of a weird one. Open Potion/Bonfire. If you have any luck at all, you'll be able to buy a Transmute and another Bonfire on turns 3 and 4. By that point, your Transmute is very likely to collide with Estates. If there are no other Potion cards you want, you can trash the Potion with another Bonfire later. And if you don't want to keep your Transmute until the endgame (for Duchies), you can buy a Bonfire to trash it on the turn you convert your last Estate into Gold.

This still works best if you have another use for Potions. Failing that, it's very useful to have a $2 card you want to load up on for the early turns when you only have $2.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Sidsel on July 30, 2016, 06:55:08 am
Messenger + Split Piles

Kind of minor, but if you grab the last card off the top of a split pile with Messenger's on-buy, nobody else gets one!

I did something similar with the Knights pile; the last one of the pile was the $4 cost.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on August 01, 2016, 10:51:56 am
Villa + Poor House

Poor House requires three things to be great: +actions, +buy, and a way to get treasures out of your hand.  Villa provides all three (the latter only on-buy).  The synergy doesn't end there.  With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.  Picture this: your hand is Poor House x2, Copper x3.  Normally, this hand is really bad, but with Villa in the kingdom, you can play Poor House + 3 Copper, buy a Villa, play the Villa, play a Poor House, and have an additional $5 and two buys.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: eHalcyon on August 01, 2016, 01:23:51 pm
With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.

Guarantees are just asking for edge cases!

- Your hand is Poor House + 4 HoP.  No Villa for you!
- Your hand is Poor House + at least one Contraband.  Village or Poor House could be off the table.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on August 01, 2016, 01:40:42 pm
With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.

Guarantees are just asking for edge cases!

- Your hand is Poor House + 4 HoP.  No Villa for you!
- Your hand is Poor House + at least one Contraband.  Village or Poor House could be off the table.

But are edge cases asking for guarantees?

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/819/702/5be.gif)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on August 02, 2016, 11:59:21 pm
Ambassador + Quest

Open Double Ambassador. Every time you get a collision, free gold! If there is a non-terminal +buy, even better! Just Province while getting even more Golds!

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160803/log.0.1470196641809.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on August 03, 2016, 03:35:34 am
> dmet   draws Procession, Procession, Copper, Copper, Copper

Ewww
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on August 03, 2016, 11:27:37 am
Walled Village and Reserve cards

Play Walled Village and a couple Duplicates or something. Keep your Walled Village for next turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on August 03, 2016, 07:15:29 pm
Rats + +X tokens

Well, this at least satisfies one of the thread's qualifiers.  There are a couple combos with a 3rd card/event/landmark that would probably be good in the (admittedly rare) case that you see them. 

1. Rats + Pathfinding + Fortress: Having a deck with 20 labs is great.  Having a deck with 20 labs and nothing else is not so great.  If you can have a fortress in hand whenever you play a rats, you can keep your other cards.

2. Rats + Training + Dominate: A deck consisting of at least 14 trained rats and nothing else can buy dominate every turn.  You'll have to trash the province, but still, 9 points a turn might be good enough.

3. Rats + Seaway + Ruins: Suppose your opponents has avoided rats (because there's no other trashing and they're terrible).  Suppose you've drawn your deck and for some reason have at least 2 seawayed rats in hand.  You can now autopile the rats and have at least 20 buys to buy out the curses and ruins and empty 3 piles in one turn.  Best of all, it only costs you 10 points plus however many more you had in your hand!

3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Once you have <5 non-rats cards in your deck, buy enough coppers each turn so that you have 5 non-rats cards for next turn.  Trashing those 5 cards yields 5 points a turn, which is admittedly less than province a turn, but (like some golden decks) is fast enough that it can still be good.  On average, after n turns, you should have roughly 5n-28 points from tomb.  This gets you to the equivalent of 4 provinces in 11 turns.

I'm not sure if there's much else good you can do with a deck full of rats, but there's 20 of them and you can get them real quick, so it seems like anything good you can find to do would be pretty fast.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 03, 2016, 07:20:18 pm
3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn.  Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.

Every time you trash, your handsize reduces by one, so you can really only get ~5 points per turn without additional support.  Needs Rats + Fortress + Tomb to gain a point for each Rats.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on August 03, 2016, 07:27:19 pm
Talisman/Keep
Had a very fun game with these two today. It's nice because Talisman can pick up Silver and itself, and even Copper if your really need them. I our game, we actually picked up multiple Potions without wanting the Potion card. The game was also interesting because it had very little +Buy (not sure whether that helps Talisman or hurts it here). Very fun in any case.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on August 03, 2016, 07:31:16 pm
3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible.  Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn.  Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.

Every time you trash, your handsize reduces by one, so you can really only get ~5 points per turn without additional support.  Needs Rats + Fortress + Tomb to gain a point for each Rats.

Oh, yeah that doesn't work the way I wanted it to.  I guess I didn't really think that one through.

edit: Upon further thought, even the 5 points a turn is still decent since it gets started so fast.  I'll elaborate in my above comment.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on August 03, 2016, 07:56:11 pm
Walled Village and Reserve cards

Play Walled Village and a couple Duplicates or something. Keep your Walled Village for next turn.

Alternatively, Walled Village and Bonfire. Trash all of your other actions from play and put the Walled Villages back!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on August 04, 2016, 10:00:27 am
Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on August 04, 2016, 11:45:36 am
Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
What's CR? Council Room?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 04, 2016, 11:47:47 am
Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!

Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
What's CR? Council Room?

No, it stands for Governor.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: jsh357 on August 07, 2016, 09:44:21 pm
Herald/Philosopher's Stone. In a slog deck with Herald in the Kingdom (rare, I know!) you can purchase Heralds to topdeck Pstone. You need +Buy to make it really good. I did it twice in this game.

https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160808/log.0.1470620568740.txt
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on August 07, 2016, 11:49:21 pm
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 08, 2016, 12:24:14 am
Are they saying it is a combo because you could open with Silver/Silver/Donate on Turn 1 if you have at least 4?, or I guess you could even get a 3rd on Turn 2 and then Donate.

Seems like it could be good on the right board, but I would be on the side of not combo-y enough to be in a list of combos.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: traces Around on August 08, 2016, 12:53:53 am
I think if it ends up deleted then some of the other listed combos which are similar in nature should be evaluated too (Ironworks/Great Hall, Death Cart/Rats).

Some of the write-up should be transferred to the Donate page as a 'neat interaction with this card' - the pages for Rats and Ironworks already have passing mentions of the above - I don't know that being in the same expansion is good enough to warrant an article over similar 'neat interactions with th[ese] card[s ]' - if those belong then this one probably does as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on August 08, 2016, 02:28:24 pm
Quote
Are they saying it is a combo because you could open with Silver/Silver/Donate on Turn 1 if you have at least 4?, or I guess you could even get a 3rd on Turn 2 and then Donate.

Right.

T3: pay off $6 debt
T4: pay off $2 debt, buy two Silvers, making your deck SSSSS.
T5: Province, Silver
T6: Province, Silver
T7: Province, (maybe Silver) (or 3 Silvers if you happen to get unlucky and draw PPSSS from a deck of SSSSSSSPP)

Five Provinces by turn 9/10? That's pretty fast. Even with the engine-loving Donate on the board, that's tough to beat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on August 09, 2016, 03:47:41 am
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on August 10, 2016, 03:15:06 pm
Treasury/Dominate? The only way to buy that juicy 15VP is to rack up a lot of coin each turn, and yet you're not technically buying a Victory card, so you never have to discard your Treasuries.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on August 10, 2016, 03:43:06 pm
Treasury/Dominate? The only way to buy that juicy 15VP is to rack up a lot of coin each turn, and yet you're not technically buying a Victory card, so you never have to discard your Treasuries.

Inherit Treasuries (using a cost reducer) in order to get 14 of  them on your deck every turn! 17 for a Militia proof solution.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: guidobass on August 10, 2016, 04:27:34 pm
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.

Or how about a Feodum/Feodum opening and Donate on your next turn? You can pay off debt and have spending money left over.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: math on August 10, 2016, 04:59:55 pm
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki.  I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything.  Thoughts?  Should I delete the article?

How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.

Or how about a Feodum/Feodum opening and Donate on your next turn? You can pay off debt and have spending money left over.

How do you open Feodum/Feodum, barring Baker or Borrow shenanigans?  Donating on turn 2 instead of turn 4 or 5 seems like a much better option.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: guidobass on August 10, 2016, 10:22:16 pm
Ooops! forgot 3/4 split.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on August 10, 2016, 10:41:36 pm
Feodum/Feodum sounds awful. 6 silver is too much unless an engine is impossible.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on August 12, 2016, 05:43:44 pm
Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn.  Alms/Villa or a baker token can also give you two overlords before the first reshuffle.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on August 12, 2016, 05:57:53 pm
Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn. 

You can't buy events when you have Debt, which includes even a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png) event like Borrow.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on August 13, 2016, 11:00:34 am
Borrow + Overlord

Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn.  In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn. 

You can't buy events when you have Debt, which includes even a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png) event like Borrow.

I'm apparently really bad at rules, I guess you could borrow T1 and have a 3/10 chance of getting an overlord T2.  I suppose it still works with baker though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on August 16, 2016, 03:27:50 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ranger / Lost Arts.  The +5 makes it really easy to spike $6.  (Inherit the Rangers, fugetaboutit!)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on August 16, 2016, 03:34:43 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ranger / Lost Arts.  The +5 makes it really easy to spike $6.  (Inherit the Rangers, fugetaboutit!)

Well, the Inherited ones are terminal. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: vsiewnar on August 16, 2016, 09:51:47 pm
The trashing token prevents Teacher from placing one of its tokens on that pile (just had that happen to me).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: traces Around on August 17, 2016, 05:03:40 pm
Ironworks/Distant Lands/Ferry

Rush strategy. Open Ironworks/Ferry on Distant Lands. I think you can see where to go from there.

My hack-job simulator bot gets to 3 Ironworks before it starts to Ironworks Distant Lands. Buys Ironworks on 4, Distant Lands on 3, Estate on 2, nothing on less. Empties Ironworks, Distant Lands, and Estate to end game while not paying any attention to whether or not Distant Lands are getting played. I only optimized the number of Ironworks in deck before gaining Distant Lands with them; this is very likely not the best way to play this strategy.
This bot beats the built in Rebuild bot which ignores Distant Lands 50% of the time (with some ties - so is better but unrealistic), the rush Ironworks/Gardens bot 67% of the time, and the slog Ironworks/Garden bot 49% of the time (with some ties - about even).

Some credit to Horist for getting me thinking about this with a message in Discord.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on August 21, 2016, 12:27:04 pm
Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on August 21, 2016, 12:42:22 pm
Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).

Champion is not tied to being in play and discarding it does nothing (besides adding the Champion back to their deck, so it will be drawn instead of a more useful card, once).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on August 21, 2016, 12:44:44 pm
Drat. I was thinking about that for Hireling but forgot Champion doesn't have the "while this is in play clause". Will this work with anything else? Prince maybe?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on August 21, 2016, 12:46:08 pm
That is, a Princed action, since Prince never is in play after the turn you play it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on August 21, 2016, 12:55:28 pm
It would prevent the card being set aside by Prince, and thus stop it from working, yeah. The only other "while this is in play" Duration type card I can think of is Bridge Troll.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on August 21, 2016, 12:59:55 pm
Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on August 21, 2016, 01:04:47 pm
Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.

Archive's effect isn't "while this is in play" either, though. It'll keep working.

Bridge Troll would only be if you played it during their Possession turn, but maybe that'll happen sometime.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on August 21, 2016, 01:08:13 pm
Hmmph. Okay, same goes for Lighthouse attack protection if you play it while Possessing, but they'll still get the +$1 next turn
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: amoffett11 on August 22, 2016, 09:59:21 am
Royal Carriage and Golem. 

Recently played a game with these two cards:  if your Golem hits a Royal Carriage, you can use that Royal Carriage you just played to play the Golem again (and if you hit more Royal Carriages, again and again).  The Royal Carriage also gives you +1 action, so if your Golem hits only terminals, you'll still have an action left to play another Golem, or just another terminal you've drawn.  You can also use the Royal Carriage not just on the Golem, but on one of the actions the Golem triggers, if you prefer.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mail-mi on August 22, 2016, 02:53:19 pm
The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on August 22, 2016, 02:55:11 pm
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on August 22, 2016, 03:02:22 pm
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on August 22, 2016, 03:42:50 pm
The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.

It gives an action when it is played by Golem, and after both terminals resolve, you can call it on Golem itself for another try at fishing for +Action.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 22, 2016, 04:29:32 pm
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on August 22, 2016, 04:33:44 pm
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 22, 2016, 04:45:01 pm
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing?  Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn.  I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.

If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.

This is the important part.  If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much.  If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.

Yeah, so ignore that thing I suggested...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on August 25, 2016, 11:44:29 am
Forge and Expedition

Expedition can help you to hit the tough $7 price point of Forge early on. It's also a cheap way to increase your handsize so your Forge can be more useful. Being able to quickly get rid of your Coppers and turn your starting Estates (and any Silvers you might have picked up) into power $5/$6 cards around turns 5-7 is huge. This interaction is strong enough that you should definitely keep an eye out for it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: NolanA on August 26, 2016, 02:20:43 pm
One interaction I find particularly neat is fast trashing, followed by Treasure Map and Adventurer since it lets  some not so great cards have their moment to shine.   When the deck is slim, it's easy to hit Treasure Map.  Adventurer becomes useful when the only treasures in your deck are the Treasure Map's 4 Golds.  This only works in certain kingdoms, but in the right kingdom it can be fun to play.  An example game in the kingdom below is at http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160826/log.0.1472234968180.txt (against computer).

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/61/Treasure_Map.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Treasure Map) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7e/Market.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Market) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/b4/Outpost.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Outpost) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f3/Witch.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Witch) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/71/Adventurer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Adventurer)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/29/Chapel.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Chapel) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3b/Fishing_Village.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Fishing Village) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c8/Caravan.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Caravan) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Cutpurse.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cutpurse) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/d1/Throne_Room.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Throne Room)
Code: [Select]
Chapel, Fishing Village, Caravan, Cutpurse, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Market, Outpost, Witch, Adventurer
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jacob marley on August 26, 2016, 03:32:40 pm
I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on August 26, 2016, 05:14:26 pm
Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: traces Around on August 26, 2016, 05:27:11 pm
Nobles/Royal Carriage

Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.

Better yet, play it for draw first, see if you need the actions, and then call the RC for actions (or more draw).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: NolanA on August 26, 2016, 06:51:58 pm
I really don't see TM or Adventurer here.  It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold.  You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly.  I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.

Those are some good points.  Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village is one of the most powerful 3-card combinations possible in the Seaside expansion.  If one player is not doing the combo as effectively as the other, he is likely to lose.  This relates to the game result more than anything else about about what cards enhance this Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village combo.    That said, on turn 11, I had the following in my deck -- 3 witches, 3 fishing village, 1 market, 1 chapel, and 1 silver.  It took 9 additional turns to gain 7 provinces by going for Treasure Map + Adventurer, which certainly isn't bad, although there aren't many games where you need to be effective at getting 7 provinces.  If your engine slows by the time you have fewer provinces, you'll still likely win.  I ran some simulations to test out this case using Geronimoo's sim and got the following results:

Witch + Chapel + Fishing Village with Treaure Map vs Witch + Fishing Village + Chapel without Treasure Map --  With Treasure Map wins 55% to 41%

The simulated Treasure Map strategy was buy 2 Witches (before gold), then start buying Treasure Maps, regardless of whether the deck is trim or not.  Win rate can be improved further by adding a condition about not switching to a Treasure Map strategy when some combination of garbage remains in the deck. Playing around with some variables, that threshold seems to only going for Treasure Map when almost no garbage remains in the deck   If significant garbage remains, then it's better to buy golds and pursue a different strategy.   Adventurer had little effect on the overall win rate because the sim usually didn't buy it.   Without multiple buys, the sim would keep hitting 8+ and buy a province with nothing to do with the left over $, until provinces were low enough to buy dutchies.  This sim didn't consider Market and Throne Room, which will certainly have an influence and could shift the win rate away from Treasure Map or could allow the sim to buy Adventurer with the multiple buy, leading to more noteworthy effects.   Regardless of whether including Treasure Map is the optimal strategy in this kingdom, it does fairly well.  There are also other kingdoms where this type of strategy is more useful.   

I realize there are other far more powerful and far more useful card interactions.  I chose to list this one because I like how it finds a use for some lesser played cards, and I expect is uncommon to play.  I find this kind of unique, lesser played card strategy "neat", and it makes the game more enjoyable to me.  I'd expect the most useful Treasure Map enablers from this expansion are Warehouse, Haven, and Tactition; rather than Chapel.  However, they don't lend themselves to Adventurer.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 01, 2016, 12:58:46 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on September 01, 2016, 01:00:08 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 01, 2016, 01:24:58 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 01, 2016, 01:56:38 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?

Roadrunner is thinking you can organize the combos into what would fit best in different seasons

For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on September 01, 2016, 02:40:09 pm
Quote
For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.

Actually, I think Cartographer/Harvest would go in Hellfreezovember. Or maybe Notgonnahappenuary.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: buggy on September 01, 2016, 03:47:31 pm
I'm not normally a big fan of Summon, but I just played a board with it, Armory, and Treasure Map.  That was fun.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on September 01, 2016, 05:18:30 pm
Quote
For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.

Actually, I think Cartographer/Harvest would go in Hellfreezovember. Or maybe Notgonnahappenuary.

How about Nombovember?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on September 01, 2016, 05:19:13 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?

Yes, why?
Just wondering
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Donald X. on September 01, 2016, 06:05:59 pm
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?
Well there's the main set, 10 expansions, and promos, that's 12 categories. Obv. a combo between two cards from different expansions gives you two choices. Promos isn't much; you could instead do Events/Landmarks for the last month.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jacob marley on September 01, 2016, 06:41:03 pm
Is Rebuild/Begger a thing?  In this game:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160901/log.0.1472706113901.txt
 (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160901/log.0.1472706113901.txt)
I used Begger to grab Rebuilds and later Duchies.  Don't bother pointing out all the mistakes, I know that I sucked hard this game, and only won because my opponent sucked even harder.  (For instance, due to a misclick, I accidentally bought Alms with $5 in hand on turn 1. :'()

It seems to me that Begger was pretty reliable about hitting 5, which was the only price point that was really important, except perhaps 4 to grab the occasional Dungeon to help sifting and find the Rebuilds.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Qvist on September 01, 2016, 07:20:08 pm
I doubt it, you are not only trying to get to $5 often, but also try to play your Rebuilds as often as possible which is kind of hard with all those Coppers in your deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jasoba on September 02, 2016, 06:16:29 am
Its ok, yah 3 copper sounds alot, but if your opponent also uses rebuild the game is so fast it dosnt matter, what matters is getting 5 NOW. So yah I like it!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on September 02, 2016, 06:28:23 am
Nah, I don't think it's a thing. Beggar is a slog card, that doesn't work with Rebuild's tendency to rush games to an end. Hitting 5 consistently is not as important as, for example, in Duke games, and like Qvist said those Coppers will really get in your way.

Also, I'm pretty sure your log shows a different game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jacob marley on September 02, 2016, 12:50:21 pm
Your right, I corrected the link.  Mainly, I won by grabbing a lot of duchies to cut off his estate->Duchy rebuilds, and I don't think that I could have done so with out the beggar, but that may be situational and if I had not screwed up turn 1, unnecessary.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on September 07, 2016, 12:41:22 pm
Gear + Crossroads

Use gear to set aside crossroads/estates to kick off your next turn.  3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.  Yeah, I know gear is great for starting village+draw engines in general, but crossroads is cheap and you usually start with 3 estates anyway.  With any way to play more of these (+actions, throning, etc), you should have no trouble drawing your deck even when it gets bigger.  If anything, this deck gets stronger when greening, so it can get a little ridiculous with something like groundskeeper (and +buy).  Mostly, it's a viable engine when there's no decent trashing and no great traditional village+draw.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on September 07, 2016, 03:09:40 pm
Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on September 08, 2016, 11:39:32 am
Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on September 08, 2016, 02:01:25 pm
Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on September 08, 2016, 02:06:27 pm
Quote
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.

I'm trying to work out the math on this one.

You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.

That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.

The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!


I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9.  I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful.  I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.
Right, I probably wouldn't play this with a real engine on the board.  (unless there's also groundskeeper or something)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 08, 2016, 10:17:36 pm
Had a really sloggy game with Trader and Soothsayer. Opened Sooth / nothing, got a Trader and a Sooth Gold / Silver on the second shuffle, Tradered the Gold into six Silvers, started greening pretty soon after that. Gold gainers are nice for Trader if you're silver flooding.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on September 09, 2016, 10:42:43 pm
Lost Arts + Cultist.

If there aren't any villages around, chaining Cultists will give you extra actions to spare to play other terminals, since playing subsequent Cultists from you hand doesn't spend an Action, but you will gain the token's bonus anyways.

e.g. Play a Cultist, +1 Action, play another Cultist from you hand, +1 Action, then you'll have 2 Actions remaining.

EDIT: OK, this has been brought up before, but it's worth mentioning again.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on September 11, 2016, 10:25:51 am
Raze/Tunnel

A neat little trick.
Step 1: Get Gold, Raze, a bunch of Tunnels.
Step 2: Raze Gold, revealing and discarding a bunch of Tunnels.
Step 3: Repeat.

Usefulness is rather low probably, but it's a nice effect.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on September 12, 2016, 02:36:28 pm
This probably only barely qualifies, but I didn't want to start a new thread just for this...

Overlord as Band of Misfits as Conspirator = Conspirator is the third action you've played this turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Miked on September 13, 2016, 07:45:25 am
Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 13, 2016, 07:53:42 am
Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.

Add Stonemason for extra fun! Use $7 buys to empty the Groundskeeper pile, then get all your Groundskeeper in play and trash Hunting Grounds for 3 Estates and 2 Duchy!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Miked on September 13, 2016, 08:36:11 am
Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper

Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.

Add Stonemason for extra fun! Use $7 buys to empty the Groundskeeper pile, then get all your Groundskeeper in play and trash Hunting Grounds for 3 Estates and 2 Duchy!
The game I played had Altar which was nice with this too.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on September 13, 2016, 10:01:38 am
I'm a big fan of Pathfinding + Festival.

This turns all your Festivals into "Grand Market Villages" that only cost 5 with no copper restriction!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 13, 2016, 10:32:00 am
I'm a big fan of Pathfinding + Festival.

This turns all your Festivals into "Grand Market Villages" that only cost 5 with no copper restriction!

Yeah, that is pretty good. Imagine Pathfinding on actual GM, though!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on September 13, 2016, 10:45:02 am
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on September 13, 2016, 10:53:55 am
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.

Pathfinding rocks on cheap cantrips. Vagrant + Pathfinding is absolutely insane, for example. Hamlet + Pathfinding is even better. $2 Labs with an extra bonus are amazing (Lost Arts on Moat is, indeed, similar).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on September 13, 2016, 10:54:37 am
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards

Yeah, loading up on cheap cards is awesome, and it's definitely easier to get a bunch of them. One downside to this though is that it's also easier for your opponent to get them. If my opponent uses Pathfinding on Scheme, I might buy an extra one or two just to spite him.

Let's say Festivals are split 2-2, and I Pathfind them before my opponent can. I'm going to have a huge advantage in picking up the rest of the Festivals. He can still take a few away from me, but I'm going to be buying 2-3 at a time pretty soon. It's a bit similar (though not a perfect analogy) to how getting that first Grand Market makes buying the second one so much easier.

Edit: Okay, Scheme might not have been the best example here -- that would be amazing. A self-activating Alchemist for $3.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on September 13, 2016, 10:54:47 am
Lost arts + Smithy is probably the greatest 4 cost thing. (For $10, you get awesome value for money.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 13, 2016, 10:58:12 am
Wandering Minstrel/Herald.

You play the Minstrel, put actions on top, and get to draw and play them with Herald. Pretty straightforward, but also quite good.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 13, 2016, 11:00:37 am
Herald/Mystic

When you reveal the top card with Herald, if you don't play it, at least you will get to draw it with Mystic. Also, the combo gives you coins and draw, as well as village qualities. You can also set up a better version by topdecking a bunch of Mystics and Herald when you overpay for Herald.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 13, 2016, 11:06:10 am
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.

Generally yes. In Festival's case, it gives you the economy and draw to afford more Festivals more quickly.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on September 13, 2016, 03:01:39 pm
Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

If you have a Magpie in your hand and at least 2 (and nothing else) in your deck/discard pile, you can repeatedly play Magpies until you have emptied the pile. Might be useful if you are looking for a third pile and don't otherwise have enough buys or gains.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JW on September 13, 2016, 05:23:34 pm
Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

Related: Watchtower can let you gain all the Magpie's without drawing your deck under the right circumstances. 2 Magpies in hand + Watchtower in hand. Play Magpie, revealing any Action/Victory card. Use Watchtower to place the gained Magpie on top of your deck; play another Magpie from your hand, drawing Magpie, revealing the same Action/Victory card to gain a Magpie, etc. You don't draw the first Action/Victory card you revealed until you drain the Magpie pile (thanks Chris!).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 13, 2016, 06:01:28 pm
The Watchtower trick works when you reveal any Action or Victory card. You never actually draw the revealed card until you drain the pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on September 14, 2016, 10:25:55 am
Pathfinding rocks

I'm not convinced this is all that good.  Usually you can't play more than 5 rocks a turn, and drawing cards in your buy phase is not nearly as good as drawing cards in your action phase.  Even with something like villa, this really only makes rocks a peddler variant.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on September 14, 2016, 10:33:26 am
Pathfinding rocks

I'm not convinced this is all that good.  Usually you can't play more than 5 rocks a turn, and drawing cards in your buy phase is not nearly as good as drawing cards in your action phase.  Even with something like villa, this really only makes rocks a peddler variant.

You're trying too hard to be Awaclus.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on September 14, 2016, 01:11:31 pm
Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.

Related: Watchtower can let you gain all the Magpie's without drawing your deck under the right circumstances. 2 Magpies in hand + Watchtower in hand. Play Magpie, revealing any Action/Victory card. Use Watchtower to place the gained Magpie on top of your deck; play another Magpie from your hand, drawing Magpie, revealing Magpie to gain a Magpie, etc. You don't draw the first Action/Victory card you revealed until you drain the Magpie pile (thanks Chris!).

True and probably a lot more common and easier to set up than my scenario, which I actually did in a game. I didn't spot it until I was looking to see if there was an additional pile I could clear and it dawned on me that I could discard a couple of Magpies. Gainers would also set it up if you have drawn your whole deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on September 14, 2016, 05:29:39 pm
Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on September 14, 2016, 05:52:18 pm
Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.

Yes, that is a good interaction. Also, Salvager/Peddler, and any card that uses the high cost of Peddler for benefit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on September 15, 2016, 03:17:55 am
Apprentice/Peddler

+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.

Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.

Yes, that is a good interaction. Also, Salvager/Peddler, and any card that uses the high cost of Peddler for benefit.

Basically, any trash-for-benefit. Forge Peddler into Province, Upgrade/Remake it into Platinum (if possible), Bishop it for 5 VP. The only exception might be Trader - you probably don't want 8 Silvers if you're playing a deck with lots of Peddlers (likely an engine).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on September 15, 2016, 04:35:35 am
The only exception might be Trader - you probably don't want 8 Silvers if you're playing a deck with lots of Peddlers (likely an engine).

That depends if your engine can't do better than 1 Province/turn, it would be better to have a deck so full of Silvers you're essentially guaranteed 1 Province/turn anyway.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schoeggu on September 15, 2016, 11:22:22 am
Crossroads & Advisor
If you have enough Crossroads you'll gladly discard the Gold and take two green cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on September 21, 2016, 11:00:36 am
Catapult + Talisman

2-for-1 Catapults, followed by 2-for-1 Rocks, then chuck the Talisman.

Patrician/Emporium or Settlers/Bustling Village,  +1 Card token from Teacher/Pathfinding

The token applies to both cards from the pile, but these are some of the only times that's actually useful. Maybe +buy on Gladiator/Fortune. Maybe.

Oh, crap. Wait a minute. Is there Eratta for that issue? I'm going to need to check under the rules section about Encampment/Plunder...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 21, 2016, 04:04:39 pm
What issue? There's nothing a token can give an Action that a Treasure doesn't work with if received. I guess +Action isn't usually helpful though lol.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on September 21, 2016, 06:01:25 pm
+1 anything on a treasure would work if you had blackmarket or storyteller in your deck
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on September 21, 2016, 06:04:55 pm
Oh, crap. Wait a minute. Is there Eratta for that issue? I'm going to need to check under the rules section about Encampment/Plunder...

You put your +1 Action token on Encampment and play Plunder later. Plunder now gives +1 Action - it is "a card from that pile". And yes, Plunder may also give +1 Card or +$1 or +1 Buy - why wouldn't it? Also, having Actions left in your buy phase isn't something new - you can have that by simply not playing that action in your hand. Also see Diadem.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on September 21, 2016, 07:12:14 pm
Remember that you can go back to your Action phase so getting Actions during your Buy phase is still useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on September 22, 2016, 12:10:15 am
Also, Diadem.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 24, 2016, 12:17:50 pm
Expedition / Mission

Basically on any board with pretty good draw but more than 5 stop cards, if you have $4 and a buy it is always the right move to buy Mission every turn and then spend all your Mission turn money on Expeditions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on September 29, 2016, 11:48:38 am
Mission + Alms / Seaway / Ball

Obvious, but if these events are on the table you can gain stuff in your Mission turn. Seaway and Ball in particular can be bought multiple times in a mission turn, which more than makes up for the opportunity cost of buying Mission even if you don't accomplish much else that extra turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 04, 2016, 05:15:34 pm
Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on October 04, 2016, 05:28:40 pm
Quest- tunnel
As far as tunnel enablers this one is pretty good
It gets better with terminal draw so you can gain golds off both quest and tunnel.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on October 04, 2016, 05:30:03 pm
Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
In bm this is decent because you can get them off your mat once per shuffle and have a bunch of 5 dollar terminal 4 coin
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 04, 2016, 05:34:03 pm
Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant

When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy.  If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds.  The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.

I kind of thought this was the point of the card? It's purpose built to be engine payload, or at least, you use them all and then dispense them at once in slogs or something.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: polot38 on October 04, 2016, 05:40:38 pm
Raze-Tunnel

You start off by trashing down, then get a few tunnels. Trash a gold with a raze, flip 3 or 4 tunnels, and profit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on October 05, 2016, 12:55:19 pm
My new favorite no-cost-reduction Inheritance target: Encampment. It's drool-worthy.

Depending on your priorities and your opponents, you can use the Estate-Encampments at the beginning of your turn in case you have to put them back into the Estate pile and rebuy them.

Forget Estate-Ironmongers and Estate-Magpies. It's hard to beat +2 Cards, +2 Actions. Encampment would be an overpowered card if there were more than 5 of them. 13(17) of them is a LOT.

I managed to do this in a game with good trashing, +buy and Windfall. Yeah, I know. I also snagged the reset of the real encampments first before my opponents could inherit one, which doesn't take long since there are only 5 and Inheritance removes one. This was in a kingdom with no other draw. And a bunch of terminals and no other Villages. Ouch. One Windfall is plenty: Every subsequent turn was draw deck, Militia attack, Workshop an Estate-Encampment, Golds and two Plunders for points/coin, buy two Provinces and an Estate-encampment, repeat. It never stalled, even after buying 10 Provinces.

Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 05, 2016, 01:43:40 pm
You can't re-buy Encampments or inherited Estates the same turn you have to set them aside. Inheriting Encampment gives you a whole Estate pile to work with though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: smuggler on October 05, 2016, 08:02:28 pm
I love peddler with training.
Cantrip for 0, worth a silver.
You just only need +buy then ;)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on October 06, 2016, 09:08:39 am
Quote
You can't re-buy Encampments or inherited Estates the same turn you have to set them aside.

True. Good clarification. I didn't re-buy them the same turn, but that's exactly the kind of thing I make sure to point out in games. Lots of IRL players do things like lay their victory cards on the table, discard them before buying, shuffle their discards when it's not their turn, discard durations on the second turn, and a host of other things that seem like they don't matter, but do. Putting back Encampments immediately on-play is definitely in that category.

Speaking of which, handy hint: I always turn cards on their way back to the supply upside-down to call extra attention to them when cleaning up.

Quote
Inheriting Encampment gives you a whole Estate pile to work with though.

That was enough in that game, though usually in an Inheritance game with +buy I'm guessing that the Estate pile drains in no time.

Also in the kingdom was Silk Road and Castles. Interesting, but nothing worth skipping buying more Estates for. I double-checked, and they would have been worth 5 points each for me at the end of the game. In hindsight, if it had been a closer game, I might have gone for the Silk Road 3-pile (Encampment-Plunder/Estate/Silk Road) instead of emptying Provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 06, 2016, 09:30:01 am
I don't think Silk Road is ever skippable in an Inheritance game, especially if you can inherit something like Candlestick Maker or Market Square. Each Silk Road should be worth at least four points, which is quite valuable for $4, and can probably be rushed if you have a third pile to drain.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 06, 2016, 01:26:33 pm
Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on October 06, 2016, 06:04:23 pm
Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on October 07, 2016, 11:00:27 am
Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool

Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.

Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune

Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.

Secret Passage also works with Vagrant, Cartographer, Sentry, Lookout, Doctor...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on October 07, 2016, 01:10:51 pm
Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Well, there is a grain of usefulness there: Market Square basically "combos" with any self-trasher (as opposed to what beginners might assume was primarily a "reaction" to a trashing attack.) The only trouble with using Market Square with most trashers is getting them to match up in the same hand, whereas Plan doesn't have that problem, because you can always buy Plan when Market square is in your hand.

To a certain degree, a great many of the suggestions in this thread really represent basic synergies, and almost all of them have multiple possible replacements for one or more of the cards.

In a way, this observation simply belongs in the Market Square wiki article: It's a card that like self-trashers, some self-trashers are events such as Plan and Trade, eliminating the need for matching. If you're using it with a trashing action, refer to the article on...um...matchers? Is Dominion missing a term?

Is there a list of cards/strategies somewhere that can effectively get cards to meet up in the same hand without shuffle luck? I'm thinking this needs a separate thread. I'll go make one now.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on October 17, 2016, 02:23:29 am
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on October 17, 2016, 03:43:12 pm
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on October 17, 2016, 03:44:52 pm
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Just get a bunch of Moats, so you can increase your handsize.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on October 17, 2016, 03:47:48 pm
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on October 17, 2016, 04:39:46 pm
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.

Right, right, forgot that. Was thinking topdecking for some reason.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on October 17, 2016, 05:21:19 pm
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.

Right, right, forgot that. Was thinking topdecking for some reason.

Save/Borrow lets you "topdeck" a card per turn for free.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on October 19, 2016, 08:00:22 am
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Hey, you want to be attack-proof or not?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on October 22, 2016, 10:24:32 am
Diplomat / Courtier

Play Courtier, reveal Diplomat, and take +1 Action and Gold/+$3/+Buy. Then a play Diplomat, and it becomes a Lost City. You can build (lame) engines using this combination.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on October 22, 2016, 10:39:12 am
Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: wachsmuth on October 22, 2016, 06:48:16 pm
Lurker + Bishop

Infinite Golden Deck on its own. It's not that strong, but if the board has any sufficiently expensive actions, especially relatively weaker ones that don't enable stronger strategies, it can easily be set up to generate 4 or 5 VP a turn. And it also seems like a pretty strong engine payload, since for example gaining and trashing 2 Princes a turn for 10 VP tokens with it seems pretty easy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on October 23, 2016, 04:55:57 pm
Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on October 24, 2016, 07:52:50 am
Mystic/Pearl Diver

Not too strong, but a neat card interaction nonetheless.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on October 24, 2016, 09:15:42 pm
Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.

Is that Diplomat's fault for being the way it is, or the player's fault for not utilizing it when it is good and not using it when it is not? With the general exception of Scout, every card has some use somewhere.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on October 24, 2016, 09:17:05 pm
Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week

I am starting to disagree on your viewing of Courtier. I think it is a stronger card than you are giving it credit for. It's going up on my list. It is no world beater, but it's way better than Explorer for starters.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 24, 2016, 09:51:54 pm
Quote
Diplomat / Courtier

Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's week

I am starting to disagree on your viewing of Courtier. I think it is a stronger card than you are giving it credit for. It's going up on my list. It is no world beater, but it's way better than Explorer for starters.

There's plenty of boards where you'd pay $5 for $3 / +Buy which you can make nonterminal in a pinch. It's just fine really. Does whatever you need it to do. It's a bit pricey but whatever, you needed the +Buy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on October 24, 2016, 10:28:10 pm
So far, I've made Diplomat work on a lot of occasions. Not every board, bit enough. Courtier is also better than I initially thought.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on October 25, 2016, 04:06:17 pm
If you Alms a Villa with a $4 hand, you will be able to open with a $5 cost.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: kru5h on October 28, 2016, 03:33:23 am
Conspirator/Villa
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on October 28, 2016, 12:55:14 pm
Journeyman/Trade

I have a low opinion of Trade, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on October 28, 2016, 01:37:16 pm
Journeyman/Save

I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.

Huh? Are you referring to "Trade" rather than "Save"?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on October 28, 2016, 04:44:22 pm
Journeyman/Save

I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.

Huh? Are you referring to "Trade" rather than "Save"?

Whoops! Yes, thanks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on October 30, 2016, 12:04:18 am
In terms of bm enablers trade is really really good. It works really well with terminal draw.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on October 30, 2016, 08:52:43 am
Save / Moat

If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.

And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.

Hey, you want to be attack-proof or not?

It's not a 4-card hand after the first Save. Moat becomes a 6th card in hand. It's similar to how Haven works.

You would have -1 to spend every turn though.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: sorawotobu on October 30, 2016, 01:57:36 pm
Diplomat / Courtier

Play Courtier, reveal Diplomat, and take +1 Action and Gold/+$3/+Buy. Then a play Diplomat, and it becomes a Lost City. You can build (lame) engines using this combination.

In the same vein, Diplomat+Mill, Diplomat+Minion, Courtier+Minion and Mill+Shanty Town. You start to wonder if maybe Intrigue intentionally got a (pseudo-) draw-to-X subtheme...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on October 30, 2016, 07:40:33 pm
I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on October 30, 2016, 07:54:22 pm
I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.

That's how slavery started.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on October 30, 2016, 09:17:01 pm
I have a low opinion of Trade
You really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.

That's how slavery started.
i think you're missing a few steps
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on October 31, 2016, 04:14:30 am
On the subject of slavery: I don't think those Pawns and Minions are all getting paid for their work.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on October 31, 2016, 10:40:37 am
Shouldn't even gen be slightly surprising, but with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mail-mi on October 31, 2016, 12:00:11 pm
Shouldn't even gen be slightly surprising, but with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.

Similarly, artisan/chariot race.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: shark_bait on October 31, 2016, 12:03:19 pm
Just played one the other night with my wife that had Artificer, Storyteller, and Menagerie.  Made more some super fast cycling/gaining with the neat thing being that this is still supported both in the absence of a village and any sort of trashing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JThorne on October 31, 2016, 12:47:41 pm
Quote
with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.

Found another use for Chariot Race: Seriously punishing your opponent(s) if you win the Peddler split in a game with heavy trashing. You win a lot of races with a preponderance of $8 cards. (Beating King's Court in a Chariot Race is particularly satisfying.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on November 08, 2016, 01:00:12 am
Develop / Baron

Develop a $3 to topdeck a Baron and an Estate.

EDIT: Oh and btw, Baron & Estate kind of have a neat interaction too. :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Qvist on November 22, 2016, 02:37:05 pm
Beggar/Triumph

I just came up with this Combo. I don't think I've read about this (wachsmuth mentioned it briefly here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15407.msg598668#msg598668)). But playing this similar to Beggar/Duke should be pretty potent. Like opening Double Beggar and on every turn you play Beggar buy Triumph. Otherwise buy Beggar and Duchies when the Estates are gone or you magically have a 5 Copper hand. The game should end on 3 of the 4 piles Estate, Duchy, Beggar, Copper. Getting 5 points per Beggar play should beat most strategies. Can someone simulate that or test play that as I have no time currently?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Accatitippi on November 23, 2016, 03:11:18 am
Tower/Silver Flood
The Silver pile is big, easy to empty, and emptying it will leave you with a pretty good deck to get some Provinces and stuff.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on November 23, 2016, 06:42:57 pm
lurker / possession


jeez
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on November 23, 2016, 07:09:50 pm
lurker / possession


jeez
That took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on November 23, 2016, 07:15:29 pm
lurker / possession


jeez
That took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.

Additionally, after you have Possession, the enemy lurkers become twice as effective.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on November 27, 2016, 06:44:40 pm
I don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere yet, but Banquet/Counting House appears to be pretty good.

Open double Banquet for Counting Houses, buy Counting House on $5+ except on the first hand of a shuffle where you want to buy banquet for sure. On <5$ just get another Banquet/Counting House and on 8$ you get Provinces. Maybe not on turn 4, but definitely afterwards.  Duchies early.

This is very unoptimized, but according to very rough simulator results this beats a lot of money strategies. It appears to be quite fast and is pretty resilient to lots of attacks.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on November 27, 2016, 09:08:00 pm
I don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere yet, but Banquet/Counting House appears to be pretty good.

Open double Banquet for Counting Houses, buy Counting House on $5+ except on the first hand of a shuffle where you want to buy banquet for sure. On <5$ just get another Banquet/Counting House and on 8$ you get Provinces. Maybe not on turn 4, but definitely afterwards.  Duchies early.

This is very unoptimized, but according to very rough simulator results this beats a lot of money strategies. It appears to be quite fast and is pretty resilient to lots of attacks.

Nice! I really like combos /w Counting House. It can be good sometimes.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on November 27, 2016, 10:04:38 pm
Squire/Advance

Advancing a Squire gets you an action costing up to 6 and any attack, which really kick-starts your deck. Also, Squire provides the extra buys that Advance loves.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on November 27, 2016, 11:39:00 pm
Stonemason/Advance - Open Stonemason x3, and you're likely to get two $5s next shuffle.

Talisman/Keep - Use talismans to buy talismans, win the talisman split.  Now you're up 5 VP, in a good position to win the other treasure splits, and you have a lot of pile control.  I've tried this twice, and somehow it is better than it sounds.

Harbinger/Cartographer - You can use Cartographer to discard a card, and Harbinger to topdeck it again.  :P
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on December 12, 2016, 11:56:39 am
+Coin on Encampment. Suddenly your Plunders are golds!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on December 12, 2016, 05:30:14 pm
Feodum/Salt the Earth

And you thought Delve was good?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on December 12, 2016, 06:31:44 pm
Masterpiece/Tower

Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on December 14, 2016, 04:02:06 pm
Lurker/Castles

Just used this one, and to good effect. (It helps that the bot didn't buy Lurker).
-Lurker can gain small castles after you have trashed them. Really nice way to get the expensive castles.
-Lurker can trash Opulent Castle.
-Lurker only costs 2 so you can pick it up easily in junky hands when your castles collide.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on December 14, 2016, 04:35:05 pm
What doesn't lurker combo with?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on December 14, 2016, 05:23:19 pm
What doesn't lurker combo with?
Feodum.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on December 14, 2016, 05:54:57 pm
you can gain chapel with lurker and trash the feudum with chapel boom combo!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on December 14, 2016, 06:15:56 pm
you can gain chapel with lurker and trash the feodum with chapel boom combo!
Then you have 3 silvers junking up your deck #Curse>Silver
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Limetime on December 14, 2016, 06:28:02 pm
Well you have a chapel so you can get rid of the silvers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on December 14, 2016, 06:32:42 pm
Well you have a chapel so you can get rid of the silvers.
Or you could of bought the chapel instead of the Lurker...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aladdinstardust on December 16, 2016, 02:13:45 pm
Plan + Market Square

On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.

That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.

Well, there is a grain of usefulness there: Market Square basically "combos" with any self-trasher (as opposed to what beginners might assume was primarily a "reaction" to a trashing attack.) The only trouble with using Market Square with most trashers is getting them to match up in the same hand, whereas Plan doesn't have that problem, because you can always buy Plan when Market square is in your hand.

To a certain degree, a great many of the suggestions in this thread really represent basic synergies, and almost all of them have multiple possible replacements for one or more of the cards.

In a way, this observation simply belongs in the Market Square wiki article: It's a card that like self-trashers, some self-trashers are events such as Plan and Trade, eliminating the need for matching. If you're using it with a trashing action, refer to the article on...um...matchers? Is Dominion missing a term?

Is there a list of cards/strategies somewhere that can effectively get cards to meet up in the same hand without shuffle luck? I'm thinking this needs a separate thread. I'll go make one now.

I noticed this combo on a board a day or two ago and decided to go for it. I ended up winning on turn 14.

I think this combo is a little bit stronger than just MS+self-trasher for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you are more focused on trashing than the reaction, so you buy MS and trash even when you don't have MS in hand to gain gold with. Also, if you draw into double gold and MS, you buy two MS and trash two cards in hand even if you only gain one or zero gold for it. By the time you purchase the last MS, you'll probably gain three gold that turn if you want to. Then you green.

To double province each turn, you'll need to add a money-cantrip (I picked up a single conspirator), but even at one province per turn, you'll probably do alright. Maybe pick up Province/Duchy one turn if your opponent is working fast, too.

The fact that MS cost 3 and gives you a treasure producing 3 is excellent because you really just want to trash as quickly as possible, and this quality makes double trashing much easier.

Lastly, Plan is better than self-trashers in general because you only buy it once and get the effect multiple times, unlike Trade, Embargo, Raze, Pillage, etc.

In the game I played, my opponent didn't contest the MS pile, so I may have gotten a little lucky, but I still think this a very good combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 20, 2016, 09:56:58 am
Something old:

Hermit + Mint
Hermit trashes Estates, gains non-Copper economy (Silver at the very least), and turns into a Madman.  The Madman helps you get most of your Coppers in play for a Mint buy.  Get thin fast!  If Minting Silver is decent, there is is further synergy.  If Mint is a bad card, Hermit can trash it.

... and something new:

Menagerie + Mill

Mill is a great Menagerie enabler as a non-terminal discard for benefit card.  If you start with both in hand, Mill is almost guaranteed to be able to discard into a hand of Menagerie + two uniques.  After playing both actions, you have a 5-card hand, but you've sifted two bad cards and are up two coins.  Rinse and repeat as needed.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on December 20, 2016, 10:17:36 am
Amulet + Bonfire

This is basically just like Jack and Bonfire but a bit slower and clumsier in exchange for the Silver gain being optional. Buy two Amulet to open, then trash Estate / buy Bonfire every turn. If you can't trash an Estate, trash 1 Copper and then gain Silver every time until you've got that really thin Amulet deck you always wanted. Then go.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on December 20, 2016, 10:44:56 am
Something old:

Hermit + Mint
Hermit trashes Estates, gains non-Copper economy (Silver at the very least), and turns into a Madman.  The Madman helps you get most of your Coppers in play for a Mint buy.  Get thin fast!  If Minting Silver is decent, there is is further synergy.  If Mint is a bad card, Hermit can trash it.

... and something new:

Menagerie + Mill

Mill is a great Menagerie enabler as a non-terminal discard for benefit card.  If you start with both in hand, Mill is almost guaranteed to be able to discard into a hand of Menagerie + two uniques.  After playing both actions, you have a 5-card hand, but you've sifted two bad cards and are up two coins.  Rinse and repeat as needed.

Menagerie is great. Combos with Artificer, too (which can combo with Chariot Race).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 24, 2016, 03:32:58 pm
Catapult + Rats

Rats trash Estates and Curses.  Catapults trash Copper and Rats.  Hooray!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on December 25, 2016, 11:18:34 pm
City Quarter (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/City_Quarter) + Scheme (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Scheme)

City Quarter can be really powerful draw, but it's hard to rely on, because it might be near the bottom of your deck.  With Schemes, you can topdeck a couple City Quarters and some other actions (like Scheme) to guarantee that your deck kicks off each turn.  The draw off of those two City Quarters is so great, you can green liberally.  Add a third City Quarter if needed.  Other ways to set up City Quarter aren't nearly as good, because they require not playing some City Quarters.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on December 27, 2016, 08:51:04 am
Expedition + Trade

has an obvious synergy. Then again, I was surprised how good it turned out to be: In the log

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161222/log.0.1482433092201.txt

I bought no action cards at all, and it got me 4 provinces in 12 turns, later 8 provinces in 18 turns. I was impressed. (Btw, it was kind of a sologame, as the bots play was nonsensical).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Psyduck on December 29, 2016, 04:14:28 am
Donate + Market Square

Spend your first turns buying Market Squares. Then buy Donate, trash the Estates and most of the Coppers. Repeat once or twice, then start greening.

I could repeatedly end the game by turn 11 with 5-6 Provinces. With a single Wharf, I got 6 Provinces by turn 9. Grabbing any sifter along the way can help.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tim17 on December 30, 2016, 07:17:07 pm
Vault + Scrying Pool

Draw your deck with scrying pool and a couple villages, then play a vault and discard all your action cards for coin and use a scrying pool to draw them all back.  It needs villages, +buy, and maybe some trashing to really work optimally, but can be a huge source of payload when it works.  The fact that you can discard specifically your actions for coin to guarantee that you can draw them back with scrying pool and repeat several times makes it more than just the "vault likes big hands, scrying pool likes payload actions" generic synergy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on December 30, 2016, 07:22:05 pm
Vault + Scrying Pool

Draw your deck with scrying pool and a couple villages, then play a vault and discard all your action cards for coin and use a scrying pool to draw them all back.  It needs villages, +buy, and maybe some trashing to really work optimally, but can be a huge source of payload when it works.  The fact that you can discard specifically your actions for coin to guarantee that you can draw them back with scrying pool and repeat several times makes it more than just the "vault likes big hands, scrying pool likes payload actions" generic synergy.

See also: secret chamber, storeroom.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: sorawotobu on December 31, 2016, 06:08:26 am
Haunted Woods vs Villa

Having a Haunted Woods in play turns off most of the crazy things your opponent would otherwise be able to do with Villa. A counter rather than a combo, does this belong here?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: navical on December 31, 2016, 06:32:50 am
Charm + Capital

Charm's weakness is that, really, you want to gain $5s or $6s with it, but you then have to hit $5 or $6 with the rest of your hand. Capital's weakness is that it doesn't actually produce any net money. Get some sifting to line them up together, though, and you get two $5s or $6s but only take debt for one of those.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on January 01, 2017, 09:21:13 am
Farmer's Market + Graverobber/Rogue

Play a Farmer's Market for points and then gain it straight back again with Graverobber or Rogue. My very first game on the new client featured Farmer's Market and Rogue.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on January 01, 2017, 09:53:42 am
Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Bowi on January 01, 2017, 05:18:06 pm
Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.

Note all of this is theory from a novice player

Villa + 'Draw-to-X'

Seems like there might be some pretty strong synergy between Villa and all the 'draw-to-X' cards. Obviously disappearing villages and 'draw-to-X' go well together, but Villa also lets you empty treasures out of your hand without your turn truly ending. In addition each 'draw-to-X' card has some individual synergy as well.

Villa + Watchtower
If you can get enough coins with a Watchtower in your hand, you can buy a Villa and another card, and then play all 3.

Villa + Library
Play Library -> draw a hand with treasures and a single Library, discarding other actions -> Buy Villa -> Play Villa + Library and draw through your treasure-thinned deck
Would work especially well with Estate trashing

Villa + Jack of all Trades
Buy Villa to get all the treasures out of your hand. Play Villa + Jack. Repeat if you draw another Jack. Villa + Jack can handle extra treasures as long as there are Villas available. Being able to draw through so many cards and play early Jacks makes this strong for Estate trashing as well, which is good because Villa + Draw-to-X is hurt badly by victory cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on January 01, 2017, 05:44:52 pm
Villa + Watchtower

Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.

Note all of this is theory from a novice player

Villa + 'Draw-to-X'

Seems like there might be some pretty strong synergy between Villa and all the 'draw-to-X' cards. Obviously disappearing villages and 'draw-to-X' go well together, but Villa also lets you empty treasures out of your hand without your turn truly ending. In addition each 'draw-to-X' card has some individual synergy as well.

Villa + Watchtower
If you can get enough coins with a Watchtower in your hand, you can buy a Villa and another card, and then play all 3.

Villa + Library
Play Library -> draw a hand with treasures and a single Library, discarding other actions -> Buy Villa -> Play Villa + Library and draw through your treasure-thinned deck
Would work especially well with Estate trashing

Villa + Jack of all Trades
Buy Villa to get all the treasures out of your hand. Play Villa + Jack. Repeat if you draw another Jack. Villa + Jack can handle extra treasures as long as there are Villas available. Being able to draw through so many cards and play early Jacks makes this strong for Estate trashing as well, which is good because Villa + Draw-to-X is hurt badly by victory cards.

Right; doesn't need to be Watchtower.  Specifically Villa is useful here because it gives you the Action you need to play the Watchtower (or whatever) and still have another Action to continue whatever.   But I think the utility and versatility of Watchtower makes it my favorite one. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 02, 2017, 03:33:18 am
Wall and Marauder.

Not only do the ruins smell a bit more like curses, the money card Marauder gains is spent, thus not contributing to hand size.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on January 02, 2017, 05:53:16 pm
King's Court + Wine Merchant

Like Guile's theme, King's Court goes with everything.  But, it goes especially well with Wine Merchant.  Wine Merchant can help you spike $7 for King's Court.  And Wine Merchant is a great target for King's Court.  Assuming you want your Wine Merchant(s) back and no other payload:

1 King's Court + 1 Wine Merchant  = $10 | 4 buys
2 King's Court + 3 Wine Merchants = $34 | 10 buys
3 King's Court + 5 Wine Merchants = $58 | 16 buys

Go forth and empty some piles!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on January 02, 2017, 06:37:00 pm
Artisan and Mystic
Gain Mystic in hand and guarantee the draw.

Artisan and Venture
Gain Venture in hand, topdeck green, skip it with Venture.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 03, 2017, 02:44:00 am
Artisan and Mystic
Gain Mystic in hand and guarantee the draw.
You would have to have a spare action for this, therefore Cartographer instead of Artisan may be handier sometimes (though the point of Artisan is that you can specifically gain the card it comboes with.
Quote
Artisan and Venture
Gain Venture in hand, topdeck green, skip it with Venture.
This, on the other hand, looks like a great use for a terminal action like Artisan.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: NoMoreFun on January 05, 2017, 03:02:54 pm
Vassal+Magpie

Use Magpie to know what the top card of your deck is and gain a lot of actions that can be played with Vassal

Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mameluke on January 05, 2017, 11:28:38 pm
Advisor / Harbinger

Play a bunch of Advisors, your 'good' cards will be discarded, then draw them back with a few Harbingers.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on January 06, 2017, 09:35:19 am
Catapult + Transmogrify

Transmogrify can turn Estates into Catapults or Silvers.  Later, Transmogrify can turn Silver or colliding Catapults into Rocks (which results in a Silver gain to hand).  This is pretty strong.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on January 06, 2017, 10:48:03 am
Cache-Bandit Fort-trasher

A pretty specific case, but I just played a game where Cache was a star card. Bandit Fort made us not want to buy Gold, and Junk Dealer made us not mind those coppers (it would have been dead otherwise). It would have been even better if the trasher had more useful benefits, like Temple or Forager.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on January 07, 2017, 12:07:04 am
Highway/Engineer

Hold on to the Engineer until the end of the game, and get at least 4 Highways (Engineer helps with this once you have one Highway).  Then you can get two Provinces from one final Engineer play, and you'll usually have at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) at that point anyway to grab a 3rd.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on January 10, 2017, 12:31:47 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on January 10, 2017, 12:39:29 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

Be the change you want to see in the world
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on January 10, 2017, 01:47:36 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on January 10, 2017, 02:21:03 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on January 10, 2017, 02:30:58 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.

I mean that most of these aren't combos. Hell, it's already pretty good by the standards of this thread if a given interaction is anywhere near "potentially useful" in practice.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: NoMoreFun on January 10, 2017, 02:59:34 pm
Played a game with Vassal+Rats

It worked decently well. Rats gives you a high density of Actions, and you aren't forced to play the Rats if Vassal turns it up (unlike Herald). Not sure if it would be good enough to make Rats worth buying in a game without a direct combo (maybe in games with Cursers) but it was nice to be playing lots of Vassals.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on January 10, 2017, 04:00:06 pm
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.

I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.

I mean that most of these aren't combos. Hell, it's already pretty good by the standards of this thread if a given interaction is anywhere near "potentially useful" in practice.


So what's wrong with interactions?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on January 10, 2017, 04:43:58 pm
oh hey look it's Awaclus being pedantic about the extremely specific meaning he gives a word that isn't universally used by everyone else in the same way again I'm sure this will be another wonderful thread where everyone walks away happy and more intelligent as a result
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on January 10, 2017, 04:49:50 pm
oh hey look it's Awaclus being pedantic about the extremely specific meaning he gives a word that isn't universally used by everyone else in the same way again I'm sure this will be another wonderful thread where everyone walks away happy and more intelligent as a result

We should have a plugin that replaces Awaclus' special-definition words with some other string that better represents (by someone's subjective value, or maybe you can customize) the idea.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Rabid on January 10, 2017, 05:36:56 pm
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on January 10, 2017, 05:45:41 pm
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on January 10, 2017, 06:35:25 pm
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on January 10, 2017, 06:45:31 pm
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.

That would be a fair thing to say if the thread was titled "neat and not at all useful card interactions". However, the subject of the thread itself is actually worth reading, and what people are posting in it is, for some parts, offtopic.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 10, 2017, 07:36:21 pm
They can't all be the most accurately-named threads ever.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on January 10, 2017, 08:08:14 pm
Some neat, and not at all useful card interactions:

Loan+Bureaucrat: Topdeck a silver, and immediately trash that junk.

Bridge+Develop: Play 7 bridges, then Develop a copper into a Province.

Royal Blacksmith+Watchtower: Get all copper out of your hand with Royal Blacksmith so you can use Watchtower to draw back up to 6.

King's Court+Arena: Drew a King's Court dead?  Discard it for 2 VP.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 11, 2017, 11:22:55 am
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?

Be the change you want to see in the world

He didn't even mention that he'd like to see the change, hence "anybody" in lieu of "anybody else".
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 11, 2017, 11:23:34 am
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.

And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.

No one forces you to read the thread.

The posts could be sorted by number of upvotes.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: 4est on January 11, 2017, 02:58:55 pm
Just played a game with Armory and Vassal.  With some village support, you can topdeck an action with Armory and then immediately play it with Vassal.  Twice I managed to play multiple Armories to set up a stack of multiple Vassals that I could immediately chain through with another Vassal in hand. 

Not necessarily a game-changing combo, but it was certainly neat and useful to me at the time!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: avorian on January 11, 2017, 05:19:58 pm
Courtier and Distant Lands

Of course, it is generally true/obvious that Courtier likes cards with many types, the gold standard of which is 3 (go away josephine). Distant lands hits that. But what's nice here is that you can get into a good rhythm of "Courtier reveals Distant lands for Action, Coins, Gold", playing a distant lands, and then easily hitting 5 for another. Meanwhile you're putting gold in your deck to prepare to switch to province-ing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on January 12, 2017, 11:02:07 am
I want to see some sort of Herald + Vassal + Golem deck (plus Steward or something to help you trash down). At some point, your entire deck just plays itself.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on January 12, 2017, 02:19:56 pm
Insert teacher, for all the tokens.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on January 13, 2017, 01:53:41 pm
Keep+Humble Castle
Humble Castle automatically gets you 5 points for Keep, meaning that even if you don't get any other Castles, it's worth at least as much as a Province.  This can lead to a massive first player advantage.  Buying what is effectively a Copper for 6+ VP on turn one may not always be the best choice, but it's still an option that's only available to the first player (or first two players in multiplayer) to take it, and on a weak/sloggish board, or a board where you want Castles anyway, it can be hugely uneven.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Skumpy on January 14, 2017, 12:29:13 pm
Remake + Villa

Remake a $3 into a Villa, making remake non-terminal. Then use your second trash on something else, such as Villa -> $5.


Not the greatest, but it works out to be a non-terminal Remodel of a $3 if you do that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on January 15, 2017, 12:43:07 am
I want to see some sort of Herald + Vassal + Golem deck (plus Steward or something to help you trash down). At some point, your entire deck just plays itself.

And then you draw your deck and you can't do much else.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on January 15, 2017, 07:36:43 am
Reggie, Vassal gives +$2, right? So that's something. With teacher, this deck could be insane. :D Put in a few soldiers for attack and you are good to go. :p
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on January 15, 2017, 12:34:46 pm
You really only need +Buy for that deck to excel. But an Attack or two helps as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: J Reggie on January 15, 2017, 07:05:59 pm
Reggie, Vassal gives +$2, right? So that's something. With teacher, this deck could be insane. :D Put in a few soldiers for attack and you are good to go. :p

That's true. My point was more that all three of those cards rely on you having cards left in your deck, and become somewhat pointless once all of your cards are in your hand or in play. But you'd hopefully have a few actions left over and could play more cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on January 16, 2017, 11:47:40 am
Alms + Spice Merchant

Obviously, Alms can gain Spice Merchant, which enables strong 4/4 and occasionally 5/4 openings.  But, there's additional synergy if there's a $2 card worth getting.  If you use Spice Merchant's coins and buy option and don't play any treasures, you can buy a $2 and Alms for a <$4 card.  Other cards can do this (Messenger, the late Woodcutter), but Spice Merchant also trashed Copper, so it's better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: JKRich on January 16, 2017, 01:50:13 pm
Treasure Map + Donate + Windfall (+ Embargo)

I know TM+Donate's been listed, but for the all time supercharge I just did this (had 5/2):
T1: TM
T2: Embargo
T3: TM
T4: Embargoed Gold, bought Donate, trashed all but 2 TM, paid some debt
T5: Played TM/trashed 2 TM got 4 Gold
T6: Played 4 Gold bought Windfall + paid remaining debt
Now I have a hand of 7 Gold with Gold embargoed for everyone else and I buy a Province 8 straight turns to end game(3p). This obviously works w/o Embargo, but it just made it cooler.


Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on January 17, 2017, 02:43:42 pm
Engineer + Silk Road

I just played a game where I bought nothing but Engineers, and piled Silk Roads and Heralds (which were mostly useless, but sufficed for a third pile).  This seems much better than Workshop+Gardens.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on January 18, 2017, 04:37:55 am
Steward + Windfall
In the absence of a fast strategy, or if the engine builds slow and wants a long game (like tokens), this can be a decent 2-card combo. Open double steward and trash down aggressively, buying nothing (you don't need anything but windfall, cantrips can be ok but could be a hindrance if you're going for 2). Eventually you'll hit steward+ 3 coppers or thereabout on turn 7-8, which will let you buy windfall twice (drawing with steward for the second). Against another BM, you may want to trigger windfall a turn earlier and just stick with one. The advantage is that the deck is insanely resistant to greening - you can pick up all the provinces no sweat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on January 18, 2017, 10:01:47 am
Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on January 18, 2017, 04:27:03 pm
Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.

Banquet + Fountain

For basically the same reasons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Erick648 on January 18, 2017, 06:37:57 pm
Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.

Banquet + Fountain

For basically the same reasons.
If you don't trash any Coppers, you can satisfy Fountain in a single $3 buy if the <$5 card you choose to gain with Banquet is a third Copper, which means that even if you don't have a lot of buys, you can still wait to buy the additional Coppers late in the game.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on January 18, 2017, 06:56:12 pm
Banquet + Fountain + Cache
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: 4est on January 19, 2017, 12:53:28 am
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on January 19, 2017, 12:56:18 am
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends.

Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on January 19, 2017, 12:57:56 am
Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e4/Banquet.jpg)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on January 19, 2017, 12:58:39 am
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends.

Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!

well, we can't keep them.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: mad4math on January 19, 2017, 04:02:52 pm
Minion + Courtier

Minion likes disappearing coin, and is 2 types. Courtier can act as nonterminal +$3 in a minion deck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 19, 2017, 06:01:05 pm
Mandarin / Gladiator (Fortune)

Play 4 Treasures and a Fortune ==> buy Province + Mandarin ==> repeat.  Fortune's +buy is particularly useful.  Probably much stronger stuff to do with Fortune, but it's kinda cool.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: gloures on January 20, 2017, 01:02:47 am
Baths/Mission

I just saw this funny little interaction between Baths and Mission in a game I just played. Paying 4 for mission and doing nothing for two consecutive turns, actually nets you more points than buying Duchy (credit should go to my opponent though (a player called Mediocre Unicorn) I just copied what he did afterwards).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Psyduck on January 24, 2017, 04:54:07 am
Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: kieranmillar on January 24, 2017, 07:11:11 pm
Based on a game I just had:

Minion + Soldier

Soldier gives lots of money if you play lots of attack cards. Minion is an attack card. Discard a lot with minions to find your Soldier, then play it for loads of money. It's pretty easy to hit province with this. Get more than one soldier to up the odds of getting a soldier at the right time.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on January 24, 2017, 08:12:19 pm
Based on a game I just had:

Minion + Soldier

Soldier gives lots of money if you play lots of attack cards. Minion is an attack card. Discard a lot with minions to find your Soldier, then play it for loads of money. It's pretty easy to hit province with this. Get more than one soldier to up the odds of getting a soldier at the right time.

Urchin + Soldier is even more brutal, and Familiar Soldier is even crazy, and don't forget Disciple too!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on January 25, 2017, 09:29:45 am
Scrying Pool as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on January 25, 2017, 10:24:07 am
Scrying Pool as well.

Torturer, Margrave, and *shudder* Spy before it got axed in 2nd edition. The last thing we need is to have Spy spam be part of the optimal strategy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on January 25, 2017, 01:10:38 pm
Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AdrianHealey on January 25, 2017, 01:22:17 pm
Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.

And get a catacombs with your next lurker!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on January 25, 2017, 01:45:56 pm
Salt the Earth + Nobles/Mill/Distant Lands + Lurker
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on January 26, 2017, 02:01:52 am
Contraband / Charm

Wait until your opponent chooses the banned card, then decide what to do with Charm.  Really not that useful, but neat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on January 26, 2017, 02:34:22 am
Salt the Earth + Nobles/Mill/Distant Lands + Lurker
This doesn't really work; you'll only end up putting stuff in the trash for your opponent to gain.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on January 26, 2017, 03:14:51 am
I just had a neat game with Emeric where there was trashing and a Farming Village + Rabble draw engine, but no +Buy. We both ended up buying Tunnel, because there was a good chance Rabble would topdeck Tunnel. Farming Village would then discard Tunnel and give us Gold, which freed up the buy for important things, like Provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on January 26, 2017, 08:08:37 am
Lurker + Cultist

Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)

Lurker + Fortress

Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.

On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.

Play Lurker, trash Squire, gain a Goons... Lurker is really potent sometimes.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on January 26, 2017, 10:30:35 am
Beggar, Tower
Ever wanted to buy ALL the beggars?

Ever wanted to own ALL the copper?

Think gardens is too mainstream?

Ever wanted to experience your VP counter tick up by 50 by playing a SINGLE ACTION?

Wanted to laugh at your opponent's pathetic attempts at attacking you?

Beggar + Tower is the combo for you!

But wait, there's more!

Beggar, Tower, Gardens

If those pesky engines are giving you trouble, (they almost always will) just go EVEN FASTER!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Cuzz on January 26, 2017, 12:08:34 pm
Engineer, Treasure Map
with any multi-card trashing can be nice. You can trash down literally all starting cards, buy engineer for free, and have a deck of just 4 golds and your trasher two turns later.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on January 28, 2017, 11:28:22 am
Beggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens

So from the discussion in Discord (and their test games), is sounds like Beggar-Tower is a legit counter to most BM strategies, but it gets wrecked by any engine. It turns out that having 40 0-point coppers kinda sucks when the engine 3-piles other stuff.

And it sounds like Beggar-Tower actually beats Beggar-Tower-Gardens. The Gardens just can't make up for losing the Copper split (lol..."losing the Copper split").

Beggar-Tower-Inn seems pretty powerful. Maybe even enough to beat a weaker engine? You get to shuffle in a bunch of Beggars, and then you can actually play multiples of them per turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on January 28, 2017, 01:06:03 pm
Beggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens

So from the discussion in Discord (and their test games), is sounds like Beggar-Tower is a legit counter to most BM strategies, but it gets wrecked by any engine. It turns out that having 40 0-point coppers kinda sucks when the engine 3-piles other stuff.

And it sounds like Beggar-Tower actually beats Beggar-Tower-Gardens. The Gardens just can't make up for losing the Copper split (lol..."losing the Copper split").

Beggar-Tower-Inn seems pretty powerful. Maybe even enough to beat a weaker engine? You get to shuffle in a bunch of Beggars, and then you can actually play multiples of them per turn.
oh, I meant banquet not gardens. derp
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on January 31, 2017, 07:51:28 am
I got a kingdom with Banquet and Watchtower with Grand Market and Quarry. Picked a Grand Market plut Coppers with a Quarry and two Coppers, trashed the Coppers gained with Watchtower. This is just sort of an interaction, since Quarry-Quarry gets you a Grand Market just as nice as Watchtower (only on your discard pile) and another Quarry mixes better with the existing Quarries in my deck than the Watchtower. But sometimes you just have 2 to spend.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: NoMoreFun on January 31, 2017, 07:57:34 am
Gaining a Gold and 4 Silvers for $3 with Trader/Banquet/Cache is fun. Getting $3+Trader hand is much easier than $5 so Banquet+Trader might even be a straight up combo
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on February 03, 2017, 10:43:22 am
Swindler/Battlefield

As if hitting Estates wasn't already bad enough...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Watno on February 03, 2017, 11:59:22 am
Haunted Woods counter Villa pretty hard.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on February 03, 2017, 12:51:40 pm
chariot race + knights/rogue


cycle around opponent's top of deck while also generally decreasing their value
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on February 03, 2017, 03:49:52 pm
Delve/Duke

The silver flood sets your deck up nicely for a Duchy/Duke rush. If you overshoot and hit 7 you can have another silver with your Duchy or Duke.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 04, 2017, 11:09:02 am
Settlers/Stables

Discard a Copper with Stables, pick it back up with Settlers!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on February 04, 2017, 09:05:23 pm
I just played a game with no trashing other than Loan; paying attention to my deck and using Summon/Island at judicious points came in handy.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ehunt on February 05, 2017, 04:19:51 am
you can Mint Crowns!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 04:46:22 am
you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on February 05, 2017, 05:39:40 am
you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on February 05, 2017, 07:12:57 am
you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
All because you played Storyteller!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: luser on February 05, 2017, 08:50:11 am
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: terminalCopper on February 05, 2017, 09:44:31 am
Apprentice and Windfall

Pay 5 for three golds, apprentice them for 18 cards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 10:04:32 am
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on February 05, 2017, 10:58:37 am
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 11:16:07 am
I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Why do you even need 4 Golds if you're already making 10 money?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Aleimon Thimble on February 05, 2017, 11:25:15 am
I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Why do you even need 4 Golds if you're already making 10 money?

Maybe on Colony boards that would be nice...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 11:31:53 am
Maybe on Colony boards that would be nice...

Gold on Colony boards is hardly better than Silver on normal boards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2017, 03:54:35 pm
Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 04:29:54 pm
Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer

Have you noticed that it has three unique components?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2017, 04:34:14 pm
Just had this in a game:

Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer

Have you noticed that it has three unique components?

Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.  It came up for me in a random game, and I made use of it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 04:54:30 pm
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 05, 2017, 05:11:35 pm
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.

You're the person derailing it, not everybody who mentions a three card combo. You're the one who feels compelled to start this discussion every fucking time it comes up.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 05, 2017, 05:15:16 pm
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit?  It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.

But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.

You're the person derailing it, not everybody who mentions a three card combo. You're the one who feels compelled to start this discussion every fucking time it comes up.

Three-card interactions aren't potentially useful. This is not the thread for interactions that aren't potentially useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Watno on February 05, 2017, 05:23:11 pm
Of course three-card interactions are potentialyl useful, the potential is just lower
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2017, 05:54:46 pm
Of course three-card interactions are potentialyl useful, the potential is just lower

And learning of a specific three component interaction can point to other three component interactions; the one that started this little discussion was Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer. Another more broad interaction can be extrapolated from this: I would definitely say Palace + Silver gainer + Gold gainer is "potentially useful", especially when one of the gainers is non-terminal.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2017, 06:00:04 pm
Also, Palace is a Landmark.  It's not part of the 10 Kingdom cards, and is part of a lower pool of Events/Landmarks to choose from.  So there's a higher probability of seeing the interaction I mentioned than if Palace were replaced with, say, a Kingdom Victory card that did the same thing.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on February 05, 2017, 06:48:27 pm
you can Mint Crowns!

And you can Crown Mints!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!
Or you can Crown a Crown to play a Horn of Plenty twice, gaining Villa, returning to your Action phase, then Crowning the Mint. At which point we're far outside the potentially useful interactions, and rapidly heading for the border of "neat" as well.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Beyond Awesome on February 05, 2017, 09:23:43 pm
Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2017, 09:40:19 pm
Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.

Does the HoP get to gain a 2nd card?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ConMan on February 05, 2017, 10:00:04 pm
Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.

Does the HoP get to gain a 2nd card?
I'm pretty sure it does, it's just that you happen to gain it in the new Action phase.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on February 05, 2017, 10:21:26 pm
I feel like there is a Crown Royal joke here somewhere...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on February 06, 2017, 08:00:21 pm
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 06, 2017, 08:10:06 pm
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: singletee on February 06, 2017, 08:26:11 pm
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.

Not everyone plays full random.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 06, 2017, 10:50:55 pm
look dude everyone uses this thread to post about something neat they found out after they played a game, why does it make you happy to be a dick to people for not having fun discussing things in exactly the way you want them to
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on February 07, 2017, 12:05:46 am
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.

Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.

So, how exactly are you entitled to define what this thread is about?
Edit: It appears AdamH upvoted you, so, uh, I guess this IS the definition? Bummer. Do I need to create a "fun card interactions that need not necessary be probable to come up" thread, now?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ipofanes on February 07, 2017, 03:36:24 am
Yesterday we had Charm with Overlord and Royal Blacksmith in the kingdom.

As you can buy debt-only cards anytime you are debt-free, you can buy one, get one free, pay later. The interaction is not perfect as with Charm and Royal Blacksmith you have already two card that Overlord cannot impersonate. Indeed we had so few +Action cards in the kingdom that we repeatedly used Overlord as a Hamlet.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on February 07, 2017, 04:50:28 am
I don't know if that was mentioned, but Borrow + Diplomat is kinda nice. +$1 each turn and + 2 Actions from Diplomat.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 07, 2017, 05:07:54 am
So, how exactly are you entitled to define what this thread is about?
Edit: It appears AdamH upvoted you, so, uh, I guess this IS the definition? Bummer. Do I need to create a "fun card interactions that need not necessary be probable to come up" thread, now?

That has been the definition all along.

One day, long ago I had a dream. This dream was that there would be a thread full of little combos that people could read through and add to their mental checklists so their game might improve.

Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 07, 2017, 06:49:03 am
Well, last time I checked, we weren't dictatorially bound to slavishly adhere to a thread's author's intent when posting. Wasn't that fact one of the reasons why Adam left in the first place?

*waves at AdamH, who apparently still lurks here for whatever reason*
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: drsteelhammer on February 07, 2017, 07:26:08 am
No, Adam left because he wanted the place to be moderated more heavily. Telling someone that their post is neither neat nor useful is valid, especially because there are multiple threads for "I did a nice thing and want to tell people about it".

Like, Palace + Silver and Gold gainer is not a neat interaction, it's explaining the Landmark....

Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: luser on February 07, 2017, 08:21:53 am
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Its more general, as there are several combos on same principle. It needs cost reduction and top-decking. Ferry and stonemason are best as are always available, you could use quarry with reliable topdecking and maybe bridge.

For topdecking you could use tfair, watchtower and royal seal.

So there are more combos, some need more  support as they rely on two unreliable components.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on February 07, 2017, 11:07:38 am
Stonemason + Raze

Normally, Stonemason is bad to open with.  But, Raze changes that.  Opening with Stonemason + Raze x2 on $4 is really strong.  Ideally, the Razes trash Estates and the Stonemason trashes a Copper.  After a couple times through your deck, you can use a Raze to trash the Stonemason if you'd like.  Stonemason + Ratcatcher x2 is okay.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on February 11, 2017, 08:57:24 pm

ambassador + wolf den

if you have a trim & strong engine vs. a sloggy thing and there isn't a way to prolong the game (provinces are low, you already gave them curses) you can send them copies of all the cards they don't have
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: luser on February 12, 2017, 12:34:15 pm
Reposting combo from other thread: lurker-hunting grounds.

This is a rebuild on steroids. Uncontested  it pretty reliably gives you 30 points and three pile ending on turn 11.

Strategy is to buy lurkers and use them to get more lurkers until lurkers are out. Then buy estates and trash hunting grounds for duchies or estates. If contested when you couldn't get trashed lurker on same turn get hunting grounds.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 12, 2017, 07:12:28 pm
I've been playing around with Lurker/Hunting Grounds as well and I have a couple of points of improvement as well as a list of all the support cards that you could possibly think of and how well they actually work. I'll probably write an article or something about it unless someone else does it first.

At best, I've gotten it down to 6 turns with Donate and Catacombs. Even without any support, I think 11 turns is on the slower end of this crazyness; it happens a lot, but 10 turns happens a lot too and I think 9 turns is still more common than 12, although they both are rare.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Watno on February 12, 2017, 07:52:41 pm
Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Skumpy on February 13, 2017, 04:07:44 am
Keep + Black Market

Keep adds extra incentive to buy that Venture or Harem you stumble upon in the Black Market deck.

In contrast to trying to remember how many more silvers/coppers you have than your opponent in the endgame, picking up a treasure from the Black Market gives you 5 quick VP you (usually) don't need to worry about losing.

Related: Keep + Humble Castle, as posted above by Erick.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 13, 2017, 06:25:23 am
Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.

It is potentially useful, because you don't have to add another card to it. But there are going to be 8 other kingdom cards and sometimes Events or Landmarks in addition to the combo though, and since it's probably the best strategy on the board every time, it's good to know which cards could be relevant and which cards couldn't.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 13, 2017, 08:01:53 am
Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.

It is potentially useful, because you don't have to add another card to it. But there are going to be 8 other kingdom cards and sometimes Events or Landmarks in addition to the combo though, and since it's probably the best strategy on the board every time, it's good to know which cards could be relevant and which cards couldn't.

Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 13, 2017, 09:29:52 am
Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?

Did you even read the post you were replying to?

Interaction that requires 2 cards -> potentially useful
Interaction that requires 3 cards -> not potentially useful

Lurker/Hunting Grounds is the former.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on February 13, 2017, 10:28:26 am
Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.

Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?

Did you even read the post you were replying to?

Interaction that requires 2 cards -> potentially useful
Interaction that requires 3 cards -> not potentially useful

Lurker/Hunting Grounds is the former.

You've yelled the same criticisms at interactions that worked with only two of the mentioned cards as soon as people start discussing more than two of them. At least be vaguely consistent if you're going to rigidly police content like this.

I mean, we would really all prefer you just not, honestly, but whatever.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 13, 2017, 10:49:13 am
You've yelled the same criticisms at interactions that worked with only two of the mentioned cards as soon as people start discussing more than two of them.

That's interesting, this is the first time I'm hearing about that. When exactly did that happen?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on February 13, 2017, 11:21:46 am
What constitutes a "potentially useful" interaction can't be too rigid. There are cases where in the average case a 2-card combo/synergy is really strong but depending on the board it might not be useful after all.

Say, Quarry/Stonemason is quite crazy, unless there are no Action cards other than Stonemason in the supply or at least no cards you care to have in multiples. Similarly, Quarry/Talisman is weak in those same situations. We can't assume extreme (1%-5%?) supply composition cases for this thread or we won't get anywhere.

For Lurker + Hunting Grounds in particular, I think it is fine to consider it valid here because the pure Lurker + Hunting Grounds combo/synergy is already so strong. Or so I assume. Is the pure 2-card rush favoured vs. big money?

Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on February 13, 2017, 11:27:19 am
Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: markusin on February 13, 2017, 11:50:04 am
Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.
On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.

"Need"? No.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Miked on February 13, 2017, 12:25:00 pm
Villa + Pilgrimage
This had probably been mentioned somewhere before but gaining 2 extra cards along with your Villa can be nice if you can play them on the same turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on February 13, 2017, 12:27:09 pm
Neat and potentially useful card interactions:

Neat card interaction:
Save / Caravan Guard - You can save your Caravan Guard repeatedly so that you're always ready to react to an attack!

Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Skumpy on February 13, 2017, 02:11:48 pm
Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!

Can someone put together an article for this one? It sounds really potentially useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on February 13, 2017, 02:30:32 pm
Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!

Can someone put together an article for this one? It sounds really potentially useful.

An important trick is to skip Witch yourself, that way your Moat has more chances to be useful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Kirian on February 13, 2017, 02:45:46 pm
Raid + Tower.  This likely only works well if it's mostly uncontested, but it's a net 30+ points if you can get that pile emptied... which is easy to do with Raid.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on February 13, 2017, 02:55:00 pm
Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on February 13, 2017, 07:09:46 pm
Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.

Ace of Spades-Ace of Hearts is an awesome Texas Hold'Em hand.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: werothegreat on February 14, 2017, 11:53:16 am
Ferry/Cultist is horrifying
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Haddock on February 14, 2017, 12:56:12 pm
Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.

Ace of Spades-Ace of Hearts is an awesome Texas Hold'Em hand.
Yeah but that would NEVER happen.  Jeez why are you even talking about this.   ;D
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on February 14, 2017, 02:04:28 pm
Ferry/Cultist is horrifying

And then you can Seaway it!

(please don't argue about me adding a third card)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Witherweaver on February 14, 2017, 02:05:20 pm
Ferry/Cultist is horrifying

And then you can Seaway it!

(please don't argue about me adding a third card)

We can't argue, since it's an Event.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on February 15, 2017, 02:31:15 am
Trader in hand turns Traveling Fair into a Delve whose Silver you can topdeck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Marcory on February 15, 2017, 04:44:15 pm
Trader in hand turns Traveling Fair into a Delve whose Silver you can topdeck.

Trader, Traveling Fair, and Silver? That's a three-card combo. No Go. After all, who hasn't played a kingdom where some doofus forgot to bring the base cards to game night?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on February 15, 2017, 05:51:37 pm
Hmm,
Treasure Map, Graverobber, Village
If your tmaps miss, but you collide this combo, play it anyways and then gain it back from the trash, topdecking it for another shot!
Also works:
Treasure Map, Lurker, Watchtower
For this one it's easier to keep one map in the trash (from lurker maybe), then when the time is right, fish it out and topeck it! What's even better is, when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Apprentice, Rogue, Native Village
Here's the scenario: You're playng a thin engine that's started to green, so you decided to to hammer the Duchy pile. You can't take much more green or you'll start to choke, but fortunately there is NV pseudo-trash. So you apprentice your duchies, helping you draw your deck even with added green, then rogue them back to your discard pile to stash away on the NV mat. It's criticall we use apprentice as the tfb here as it needss to be nonterminal: using a terminal trasher would take too much terminal space and hinder the viability of this combo.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Deadlock39 on February 15, 2017, 06:52:26 pm
when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Not sure if trolling...
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Seprix on February 15, 2017, 07:18:39 pm
Treasure Map, Lurker, Watchtower
For this one it's easier to keep one map in the trash (from lurker maybe), then when the time is right, fish it out and topeck it! What's even better is, when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Even better than that, use Watchtower to trash the Golds.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on February 15, 2017, 08:06:09 pm
when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.

Not sure if trolling...

Or just gain Silvers instead with Trader. Combo Treasure Map/Trader.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: tailred on February 15, 2017, 08:07:11 pm
Storyteller, Diadem, Storeroom, Travelling Fair
Turn coin into draw, or draw into coin, then actions into coin, or actions into coin while you turn coin into draw turning actions into even more draw, then in the end turn all the draw back into coin? Or turn the draw into coin first then back into draw, effectively cellaring TWICE? (cwazy!) Then, in the end, turn all that coin into buy, letting you buy all the copper (which, if you look carefully, is just another way of turning draw into coin, but nonterminally - wow!) you want!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on February 16, 2017, 08:49:17 am
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, and has come up a few times recently in League games and game reports:

Develop + Fortress

It turns out that gaining and topdecking a $5 card and a $3 card is often really strong - even by Fortress trash-for-benefit standards.  And because Fortress is in the kingdom, you will be able to play multiple Develops per turn.  This interaction often dominates games it appears in, so don't ignore it!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Asper on February 16, 2017, 09:48:55 am
Storyteller, Diadem, Storeroom, Travelling Fair
Turn coin into draw, or draw into coin, then actions into coin, or actions into coin while you turn coin into draw turning actions into even more draw, then in the end turn all the draw back into coin? Or turn the draw into coin first then back into draw, effectively cellaring TWICE? (cwazy!) Then, in the end, turn all that coin into buy, letting you buy all the copper (which, if you look carefully, is just another way of turning draw into coin, but nonterminally - wow!) you want!

A parody is only as good as it is accurate, you know. I fail to see what or whom you'r making fun of here.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: luser on February 16, 2017, 12:26:44 pm
A parody is only as good as it is accurate, you know. I fail to see what or whom you'r making fun of here.
There coulndn't be any making fun. The license for making fun had expired
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 22, 2017, 01:46:24 am
Fool's Gold (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Fool's_Gold) + Travelling Fair (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Travelling_Fair) is pretty neat and useful. Once you manage to hit $6, you can all but guarantee that you can buy and topdeck two FGs every turn until you draw a hand with 3 FGs, after which you can actually guarantee triple FG turns until the FGs run out (although it's pretty likely that your opponent will be contesting FGs and that the pile is emptied before you get to the point of getting constant triple FG turns). Travelling Fair is also a convenient way to utilize FG's high economy boost if you still want to continue building the deck afterwards.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: majiponi on February 22, 2017, 07:55:42 pm
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: allanfieldhouse on February 24, 2017, 11:45:20 am
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: GendoIkari on February 24, 2017, 12:20:17 pm
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"

I wonder how it affects the Tournament choice. Would you ever consider Diadem as a first prize because of Keep? I'm guessing no, but it might become second after Followers (if there was no other cursing).
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on February 24, 2017, 12:26:07 pm
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"

I wonder how it affects the Tournament choice. Would you ever consider Diadem as a first prize because of Keep? I'm guessing no, but it might become second after Followers (if there was no other cursing).

Followers should usually not be the first Prize, and if it should, it's because of the discard attack, not because of the cursing (it junks you just as much). Usually it should be Princess or Trusty Steed that you're going for first.

I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.

You don't need to win big, you just need to win by one. That's a 10 point swing, i.e. absolutely worth going for, especially in the case of Masterpiece since Masterpiece itself is another 10 point swing if your opponent ignores it. However, most of those sound like not potentially useful due to the very specific situation requirements.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on April 04, 2017, 05:34:51 am
Miser + Fountain lets you get rid of your Coppers and still get the (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)15.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: McGarnacle on April 04, 2017, 09:18:57 am
Artificer/Poor House is actually pretty good. You basically get to gain cards and still get coins for them. You can add villages or more Poor Houses and Artificers if you need mid-turn.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: trivialknot on April 11, 2017, 06:15:20 pm
Engineer / Travelling Fair
Turn 1: Buy Travelling Fair, buy and topdeck Engineer.
Turn 2: Play Engineer.  Pay off debt, and you can even buy a second Engineer.

You can do this regardless of your initial shuffle.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on June 11, 2017, 12:33:29 pm
Alms + Bridge

With Alms, you can always open double Bridge.  With Alms, whenever you play a single Bridge you can gain a $5 card and a $2 card.  If you can get multiple Bridges into play, this synergy gets even stronger.  This synergy is probably the best way to build if there are other good engine components on the board.  An action splitter costing $5 or less is probably essential, trashing and/or draw (especially non-terminal) help a bunch.

markus recently crushed me in a game with Alms + Bridge.  There was also Tactician, Patrician, and Village for additional synergy.  This synergy was so strong, it was correct to ignore Cultist and Wharf!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on June 16, 2017, 11:52:34 pm
It was posted before, but Remake-Villa is neat. You can trash $3 -> Villa, then trash the gained Villa -> $5, which lets you play Remake as nonterminal Remodel on $3 costs if you need to.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Gherald on June 17, 2017, 10:47:25 pm
Just played a Diplomat + Forager game. It was beautiful.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on June 26, 2017, 09:55:04 am
Gear + Encampment

If you open double Gear, there's a ~40% chance to be able to buy an Encampment and a Gold on turns 3 and 4 (and a near certainty to be able to get a Gold by turn 5).  Going forward, you can alternate Encampment buys with more expensive buys (probably $5+ terminals - Gold if there's nothing better) until the Encampments are gone.  You can easily save Gold and/or Encampments to guarantee that you kick off the next turn.  If there's nothing better on the board, you can build to playing as many Plunders as possible and buying Province each turn, but there's almost always something better.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on June 28, 2017, 10:02:45 am
Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dingan on July 03, 2017, 04:29:47 pm
Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.

That's neat but what ratio of Patrols-to-Ventures do you want, and what order to buy them, etc.?
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on July 03, 2017, 06:08:52 pm
Patrol/Venture

If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.

That's neat but what ratio of Patrols-to-Ventures do you want, and what order to buy them, etc.?

Well, you're playing BM so you probably want like 1-2 Patrols and Ventures on the other $5 turns.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on July 04, 2017, 01:39:47 am
Farmland + Fortress: If you have a Fortress in hand during your Buy phase, you can spend $6 to gain 2 Farmlands, repeatedly. This usually isn't that useful, but if you have the money, it lets you empty the Farmland pile in 4 buys, and sometimes you're buy-constrained instead of money-constrained.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: xyz123 on July 04, 2017, 02:45:40 pm
Haggler + Ill-Gotten Gains

Haggler can't gain victory cards but that doesn't mean it can't effectively gain you points. I had a game yesterday with strong trashing so IGG was pointless and not gained for most of the game. On my last turn I bought the last 2 Provinces using the 2 Hagglers I had in play to gain 4 IGGs giving my opponent 4 curses. I won the game by 3 points.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on July 05, 2017, 05:22:36 pm
Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: schadd on July 05, 2017, 05:37:19 pm
You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

(http://wallpapercave.com/wp/1MT09rC.jpg)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on July 11, 2017, 10:24:22 pm
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

Turn 1: Plan on Gear.
Turn 2: Buy Gear and trash Estate.
Your deck is exactly 7 Copper, 2 Estates, and a Gear.

Over the next 4 turns, your goals are (in priority order):
1) Buy two Gears and trash two Estates.
2) Buy two Golds.
There is a very high likelihood (~86.5%) that you will accomplish these goals.

There are exactly three failure cases:
A. You draw 5 Copper on turn 3. (Likelihood: 8.3%)
B. You draw 3 Copper and 2 Estates on turn 3 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, your turn 4 Gear draws Copper and Gear. (Likelihood: 4.2%)
C. You draw 4 Copper and a Gear and draw 2 Copper on turn 3 (buying Gold).  Then, you draw 1 Gold, 2 Copper, and 2 Estates on turn 4 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, you draw 5 Copper on turn 5 or Gear draws Gear. (Likelihood: < 1%)
These are not catastrophic failures.  In each of these cases, you should probably buy a Gear and trash Copper.  Now you spend the rest of the game with one more Estate and one fewer Copper than usual.  This might even help in the mirror (though you're disadvantaged if it comes to Duchy-dancing).

Turns 7+: Buy Province when able, buy a third Gold on the first miss.
I tested this out and consistently got 5 Provinces by turn 12.  After that, the deck starts to falter, but you can go in for Duchies or save up for Provinces depending on the game state.
In a mirror, it might make sense to skip the third Gold and go for Duchies immediately.  Maybe.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: luser on July 21, 2017, 12:09:33 pm
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: aku_chi on July 24, 2017, 11:51:38 pm
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

Could be.  I expect it wouldn't be too hard to simulate.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

Turns 1-6: Buy Silver x4 and Counting House x2.  Prefer to buy the Counting Houses last (potentially even if you have $5 early).  If you get unlucky with a $2 hand, buy a Copper and optionally Scouting Party.  If you open with $5, buy a Scouting Party and Silver.
Turn 7: You'll have 5 cards in your hand and 11 in your deck.  Buy Scouting Party twice, making sure that you have one Counting House in your hand or discard pile.  Buy a Copper.
Turn 8-12: Play Counting House, draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Buy a Province or Duchy.
Turns 13+: Once you have more than 8 non-Copper cards in your discard pile, you'll need to choose between risking a hand with no Counting House (and buying a Province) or buying Scouting Party twice while taking fewer Copper (and buying a Duchy, presumably).  Hopefully the game is almost over.

It's not uncommon to get 4 Provinces and a Duchy by turn 12.  This strategy is mostly unaffected by discard attacks.  Junking attacks actually help in turns 8-11, but they'll hurt both before (if relevant) and after.  This strategy is completely foiled by any cards that can trigger a reshuffle.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on July 25, 2017, 01:37:11 am
Some of these are old.

In IGG rush games, Triumph almost always gives more points than Duchy because it counts the Coppers you gain from IGG.

Upgrade-Fortress: if you draw your deck, and have 2 Upgrades in hand + a Fortress in hand, you can empty the Upgrades in a single turn, and then next turn use Upgrade to gain tons of Duchies off your Fortress. You lose very fast if you don't have a plan against this.

Scrying Pool-Peasant line: Scrying Pool is an attack, which makes Soldiers give tons of money. Teacher gives you a way to get enough Actions and Buys to use all the money you can get.

Rats-Watchtower: Gets you thin very quickly. If you have both in hand and trash the Rats you gain, it's close to "+2 Cards, +1 Action, trash a card from your hand." This is nuts and is worth going for even if you don't have any other way to trash Rats.

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chappy7 on July 25, 2017, 12:08:46 pm

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Same goes for trader-cache
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Chris is me on July 25, 2017, 12:30:14 pm
Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

This totally beats Triple Gear. Otherwise you are essentially saying a Silver is better for Gear BM than trashing three Estates without using any Actions. Not having that second Gear on the first shuffle isn't really fatal - it usually misses the second shuffle anyway.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on July 25, 2017, 12:33:37 pm
Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Well, you're not really gaining it for $4 since you need to leave a $4 costing card in your hand in order to do it, so it's more comparable to paying $4P for it. Of course, the Trader is also useful on its own, so it's better than that.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: dedicateddan on July 25, 2017, 02:47:53 pm
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

This gets even better with Beggar.

Turn 1 and Turn 2, open Beggar/Beggar + Scouting Party
Turn 3 and Turn 4, play Beggars, buy two Counting Houses (prioritize these over the second Beggar if you are lucky enough to play a turn 2 Beggar)
Turn 5, use Scouting Party to topdeck a Counting House near the bottom of the shuffle, buy a copper
Turn 6+, play Counting House, take enough copper to leave exactly 8 cards in deck + discard, buy Scouting Party once to topdeck a Counting House on a 5 card deck, and buy Province

Looks like a Province every turn 6-13. Faster than most money strategies. An example of 6 provinces on turn 11 is here: #5453546.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on August 05, 2017, 05:04:27 am
Bit of an obvious one, but Lurker + Procession. You can keep playing the same Processions over and over again and gain a ton of cards in the process.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Cuzz on August 08, 2017, 11:03:55 am
Probably well-known but Herbalist-Capital is pretty wow.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Dylan32 on August 08, 2017, 02:55:38 pm
Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

Just had this combo, forgot to let opponent take the first one, but they literally didn't bid for it at all. 8 VP for 1 debt, I'll take it.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on August 12, 2017, 07:34:35 am
Procession + Duplicate is pretty neat. You play Procession on Duplicate, Duplicate reserves itself, Procession loses track of it, then you gain a $5 Action and may call Duplicate to gain a copy of it.

I guess you could say that Procession has that synergy with any Reserve card, but it's not particularly useful for most of them. Wine Merchant is another noteworthy one.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Burning Skull on August 12, 2017, 10:23:58 am
Procession + Duplicate
Got demolished by that recently
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on August 31, 2017, 09:29:02 am
Rebuild/Castles

It's fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on August 31, 2017, 10:58:43 am
Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.

I just had one of these. I lost, but it was certainly one of the more interesting Rebuild games I've had.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on August 31, 2017, 11:30:20 am
Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
And, gain the on-trash bonus of Crumbling!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2017, 04:01:21 am
Harbinger with Envoy or Advisor is moderately useful for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: AJD on September 01, 2017, 11:48:00 am
I had a good time with Port/Pathfinding/Windfall the other day. (I used the Golds as fodder for my Catapult and Bishop. I don't think I played it optimally, but hey, my opponent resigned, so.)
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: faust on September 18, 2017, 04:01:16 am
Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Jacob marley on September 21, 2017, 04:48:35 pm
Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.

Scavenger also works nicely with Rebuild, allowing you to topdeck a Rebuild for next turn, speeding up rebuild plays.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on September 22, 2017, 08:55:17 am
Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on September 22, 2017, 10:00:07 am
Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.

Isn't that more of a nombo? You can't use the CG for both its own ability and to protect you from YW.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: crj on September 22, 2017, 12:05:21 pm
So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on September 22, 2017, 12:30:16 pm
So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.

Scheme.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on September 22, 2017, 12:36:16 pm
Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LaLight on September 22, 2017, 12:37:34 pm
Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.

True!
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: weesh on September 22, 2017, 12:38:14 pm
So what's the best bane?

Define "best"
is it:
"synergizes with your own witches"
"discourages people from buying young witch"
"given that your opponent is likely to buy young witch, this offers you the best defense"
"has the perfect balance of power that it causes you to need some, but feel a bit disappointed at the opportunity cost"
"has a great feel of play and counterplay"

Personally, I like Guide and Ratcatcher a ton as banes for the bolded reason.  There is tension in wanting to save them for the ideal situation versus wanting to get them back in your deck.  Also, the fact that they are reserves means you generally need to play more of them to be effective. 
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Awaclus on September 22, 2017, 12:43:47 pm
Given that Young Witch is in the kingdom and the card itself is the bane, what's the most powerful card? That's how I've always understood the question.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: crj on September 22, 2017, 07:34:41 pm
So what's the best bane?
Define "best"
Uh... hmm...

"Synergises best as Bane from the perspective of someone buying it", maybe? I'm definitely not asking what the best $3-or-lower card is; it's got to be something that particularly benefits from its interaction with Young Witch, as the person with Young Witch and/or as the person attacked.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: crj on September 22, 2017, 07:36:14 pm
Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Donald X. on September 22, 2017, 11:57:55 pm
Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.
Work is underway on the eventual prettier reprint of Guilds/Cornucopia, and we are planning on including a Bane card.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: Titandrake on September 23, 2017, 01:30:45 am
Baths + Debt

It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.
Title: Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
Post by: LastFootnote on September 25, 2017, 11:43:17 am