I will point out with Stonemason/quarry, you may eventually need to NOT play quarry, so you can overpay for, e.g., the last of the stonemasons.You would also want to be careful to not play multiple Quarry for anything under $5 as cards costing zero (like the Stonemason you just reduced to $0) would be impossible to pick up. But the early game interaction is definitely worth noting.
I'm pretty sure Quarry is why Stonemason is called that. Maybe the clearest case of synergistic cards having synergistic names in the whole game. (That, or sacrificing Cultists at the Altar.)
It's lucky chancellor without the luck.
Oh. Uh, yeah, and chancellor is really good, so you want to play it every turn!It's lucky chancellor without the luck.
So it's just Chancellor?
Chancellor/Scout: Self-explanatory. This one is an obvious combo, and a great 3/4 opening.
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful oneHuh, I wonder where you thought of that one...
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful oneHuh, I wonder where you thought of that one...
Even better: Chapel/Scout. So you can trash your Scouts.Scout draws your starting Estates to be trashed with Chapel!
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
Unless you're overdrawing your deck.
I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.
BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.
Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.Counterfeit?
Herbalist?Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.Counterfeit?
Herbalist?Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.Counterfeit?
Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.
If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.
Good to know your nombos. But in all seriousness, Prince + Cost Reducer is pretty special.
I like cost reducers, can't you tell?
Prince/Counting House, maybe?
Counting House can get you to a quick $8 if you're lucky, and being able to play Counting House enablers like Chancellor, Scavenger, Storeroom etc without an action means being able to set up all those combos that are not feasible normally. It's not really enough to be a combo, with luck and a third card involved, but iplayed it in one of my first Prince games, and it was fun.
If not Counting House, how about Coppersmith/Prince? It can also get you to $8 early, and effectively turns all your Coppers into Silvers. Not sure whether that's combo territory, but it does look like a nice interaction.
Scavenger and Chancellor don't synergize with a Princed CH, since the CH gets played first, before you get to play the Scavenger.
I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck. Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.
I can maybe see Prince/Coppersmith... but the problem is that you need to hit 8 early and want to have more Copper than normal in your deck. Most of the time you'd prefer to get rid of the Coppers and buy something better.
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4. That makes it comparable to Baron.
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4. That makes it comparable to Baron.
I've never understood why Coppersmith gets rated so low - without Copper trashing, it's consistently +$3 or +$4 in the early game, for $4. That makes it comparable to Baron.
There are multiple reasons:
- You usually want your opening buys to help you hit $5 early, because that's the price point where most of the important Action cards are. Any hand with Coppersmith and enough Coppers to get you $5 could have been a hand with Silver and the same number of Coppers and you still would have had $5. Silver has the advantages of being non-terminal, costing $1 less and being always available in every game.
- You do want to get rid of your Coppers, and Coppersmith starts to suck as soon as you don't have any Coppers in your deck.
- If you can't get rid of Coppers, building an engine is much more difficult and if you can't build an engine, you don't have any use for Coppersmith.
- When you've managed to build an engine with lots of Coppers and Coppersmith(s), you still need +buy to utilize all of your dollars.
Baron doesn't have any of these problems — it's significantly easier to hit $5 with a Baron than it is to hit $5 with a Silver, you only have to keep one Estate around to use the full potential of all of your Barons, and it has the +buy on it already.
Oh, that's what was meant. Well BM + HoP + Graverobber or Rogue also let you do this. For treasures other than HoP, Counterfeit was mentioned and that could work with BM and Graverobber/Rogue for multiple plays of the same treasure in one turn, not just the two of buying Mandarin.With Herbalist you can not use a treasure twice during the same turn.Herbalist?Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.Counterfeit?
almost as good as Storeroom / Gardens.I just played a game with Storeroom, Gardens, and P-stone. Mmmm.
Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.
I feel I wouldn't buy more than half my barons if it didn't have the buy.
Cache + Doctor is something I played this morning in a really empty Kingdom without much else to do. Yet has surprisingly good synergy and pretty much works as a Big Money deck all by itself. You can open Silver / Doctor overpay, then buy Cache on $5, using Doctor to trash those Coppers before you even draw them. Get a second Doctor at some point and you can get essentially a Gold per shuffle without much drawback. Eventually you just buy gold straight up and then you're hitting $8 or more every draw. Kinda fun, I guess.
Not to be a naysayer, but I wonder if that's really better than just buying Silver, Cache, and Gold. How many Estates and Coppers did you end up trashing?
This seems like something easy enough to script in Dominate; I'll give it a try later. You very well could be right as trashing is rarely a benefit in Big Money - the reason Doctor works well in this strategy is because it trashes without hurting your current (or even future) turn much.
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Band of Misfits
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Band of Misfits
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Band of Misfits
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Band of Misfits
pubby plays City
pubby shuffles deck
pubby draws Band of Misfits, Band of Misfits
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Mining Village
pubby plays Mining Village
pubby draws Band of Misfits
pubby trashes Mining Village
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Mining Village
pubby plays Mining Village
pubby draws Band of Misfits
pubby trashes Mining Village
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Band of Misfits
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Mining Village
pubby plays Mining Village
pubby shuffles deck
pubby draws Band of Misfits
pubby trashes Mining Village
pubby plays Band of Misfits
pubby chooses Feast
pubby plays Feast
pubby trashes Feast
pubby gains Duchy
pubby plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper
pubby buys Province
pubby gains Province
pubby buys Province
pubby gains Province
pubby shuffles deck
pubby draws City, Copper, Silver, City, Province
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!
Play band of misfits as feast. Trash band of misfits. Gain a band of misfits. Yes!
WHO ARE YOU AND HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITHOUT ME EVEN KNOWING
Maybe this one isn't that common, but I just had a fun Band of Misfits game with Shanty Town and Mining Village. When I had no other Action cards in my hand, it was Shanty Town. Otherwise it was Mining Village (or Conspirator, Forager, etc.). Band of Misfits is one of those cards that I need to buy more in order to really see its power. It's great with cards that are situationally awesome (Smugglers, Baron, etc.).I've noticed that it makes "bad" cards significantly more important. Cards like Thief or Feast can usually be ignored, but when BoM's on the board you have to pay attention to them.
I play BoM as Feast to gain a BoM!
An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.
An interaction I like is Sage/Potion/cheap potion card such as University or Apothecary. If you open Potion/Sage then providing you do not draw them in the same hand over turns 3 to 5 you can stock up on the cheap potion card.
It's also very good with Familiar — it gives you slightly higher odds of hitting $3P on turns 3 and 4 than Silver does, and then it helps you play the Familiars more often.
Doctor/Fortress: Can draw you cards if there's no other way to do so. More realistically, Fortress makes your Doctor less of a dead card later.
There have been two times I have tried to use this as my only real draw. Pro tip: it doesn't work very well (somehow I think I actually won those games anyway, but yeah, not advised)
Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.
Even without trashing, if there's engine potential, Quarry + GM is just nuts.
Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?
Is it possible to get Fortress in the trash?
Let's try to keep this thread on topic, please :)
Governor/Black Market/Minion
I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:
Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
Governor/Black Market/Minion
I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:
Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work. Example:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)
But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.
Governor/Black Market/Minion
I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:
Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work. Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)
But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.
Governor/Black Market/Minion
I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:
Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
Well, the Minion could be in the Black Market deck. (It wasn't, but it could have been.)Governor/Black Market/Minion
I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:
Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*
It's not surprising that you've only pulled it off once, it requires three specific cards in a kingdom and kingdoms with three specific cards in them are incredibly rare.
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights
^ Also works with Spy if Scrying Pool is unavailable.
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights
Scrying Pool + Swindler
Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).
Scrying Pool + Saboteur
Scrying Pool + Knights
Scrying Pool + Swindler
Keep cards on top you want to hit. After the Scrying Pools run out you can use Swindler to remove Scrying Pools from their deck (and there's probably no other $2P card on the board, so they won't even get anything in return).
A similar concept; if you can reliably insert Fortune Teller -> Saboteur into an engine and play it every turn, it can make for devastating and consistent end-game VP trashing.Ah, the Rabbleteur deck. One of my favourites.
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Ferry only works on Actions.
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Ferry only works on Actions.
Oops. So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!
Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Ferry only works on Actions.
Oops. So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!
I'm guessing you missed the Rules Online thread?Ferry + Trashing attack -- place the -$2 cost token on Province or some other juicy target that is normally too expensive to hit.
Ferry only works on Actions.
Oops. So scratch Province and only have it on some other juicy target... I guess there are fewer of those, but there are still some!
Where is the full list of cards?
Bear in mind you called this thread "Neat and potentially useful card interactions". You did not call it "List of combos sensu stricto". So, I think most of this are thinking of it as "oo, this seems interesting" rather than "THESE TWO CARDS EAT SPAGHETTI 'NEATH THE GIBBOUS MOON".
I'd post more combos here but everything I know is either well-known, or very gimmicky.
Here's a gimmicky one: Journeyman + Native village can psuedotrash your provinces.
And two mundane ones: Hoard + Counterfeit. Rebuild + Oasis.
Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.
Adventures was released to the public two days ago. How many games could any given person have possibly played with these cards to legitimately think that Adventures card combos are as good as the other combos here? "But Adam I played a Ferry+GM game and it was AMAZEBALLZ!" but there are tons of other cards Ferry is good with. Have you played with all of them? How do you know it's the special music between these two cards when you've been playing with Ferry for two days. I've been playing with the Adventures cards for 10 months and I still feel like that isn't nearly enough. Not even close. How can you know that flute+viola is so magical when you don't even know what a flute sounds like?
Surely this is a bit of an exaggeration? If before posting about a combo, you must have tried both cards separately with all other cards they could supposedly go well with, nobody will ever post anything. As you yourself said, there's just too many cards...
I'm all for keeping this thread useful, but I am confused as to what is expected of it.
Journeyman doesn't topdeck, so how does that work?Put the provinces in your discard while drawing your deck and then NV them.
Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.
With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.
Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.
Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.
With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.
Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.
I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well? In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often. And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc. Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.
Tangents like this are super-productive. <3 <3 <3 It's why this place is so awesome.
GWAAAAH I'm so conflicted!
Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.
Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
Royal Carriage/Bridge
Adam, one idea if you want a list of the cream of the crop 2-card combos is to do a Qvist-like ranking of them. You could start a thread saying, "Hey guys, name 50 useful 2-card combos", and then get people to vote for the most useful, then maintain a list of the best 20, then periodically iterate by adding new combos to the list to be voted on.
Yeah it's a bit of work and it may be that no one has the time and motivation to do it. But I think it's the way to achieve what you're trying to achieve.
Royal Carriage/BridgeCan playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo?
IGG can also pick up Silvers in the presence of Trader, although you'd probably be better off trashing IGG when they collide.
However, it's worth bearing in mind that Trader, unlike Watchtower, stops IGG from taking Curses out of the Supply, so if even one IGG gets blocked the Curses won't get emptied. This may not be a concern, though, if you're going against the usual rush style of IGG, which you probably are with Feodum. Of course, I feel like this raises questions about the use of IGG in the first place.
Royal Carriage/Bridge
Can playtesters confirm this to be a respectable 2-card combo? My instinct says that you usually won't be able to get enough RCs bought and into your tavern quickly enough for this to succeed. Note, I totally think that this plan is viable with other support, but I don't think it will be a combo on its own.
I wanted to sleep on it to help me decide
I think the first thing you should do is change the title of the thread.
Quarry and Stonemason: When playing Quarry, the price of Stonemason reduces to zero, so the normal "quarry gives +$2 if you're buying one action" and "you need $2 extra to get the extra action with Stonemason" becomes much better. You get cost reduction on both the Stonemason you buy AND on the overpay!
Apothecary and Shanty Town: Any top-deck interaction will help you trigger your Shanty Towns more, this is true; but I think Apothecary stands to benefit the most from this, as it can get a lot out of using Shanty Towns early to draw your green and pushing your terminals off until later in the turn when you've got the actions to play them and trigger future Shanty Towns.
Doctor and Fool's Gold: These two have a troubled relationship, that's for sure. Fool's Gold is a card that can provide you high-income hands very early, which can lead to very beneficial Doctor overpays if you're paying close attention.
Highway and Horn of Plenty: You don't need to worry about having enough unique cards with Highway around, every Highway you play effectively counts as a unique card since it reduces the cost of whatever you're going to gain.
...and some of the more standard ones:
Highway and Ironworks Cost-reducers and gainers synergize, for sure, but these two probably deserve a special mention. Highway and Ironworks are both non-terminal so it's very easy to get lots of them to increase your chances of collision, and spamming these cards can be a way to get lots of power-$5 cards very quickly.
University and Inn: The best thing I can think of for this is that every time you have a Uni in hand, think about gaining an Inn. It's probably amazing. Sure it isn't worth it without some kind of draw, but thinking about this will have you doing much better than the other guy who doesn't.
Mint and Apprentice: Trash your coppers, reload your fuel.
University and Apprentice: Similar
University and City: empties piles easy.
Chancellor/Scavenger and Hunting Party: On an otherwise weak board with Hunting Party, you typically want to avoid cantrips like Caravan. However, if the best terminal on the board is Chancellor or Scavenger, this is a non-issue. (This doubles as an edge case where Chancellor > Scavenger. Unfortunately, it's rare.)
Ghost Ship/Wishing Well - you can guarantee a hit after getting hit by a Ghost Ship attack, which mitigates a lot of the attack. Similarly, Farming Villages lets you topdeck Victory cards and skip right past them
Ghost Ship/Fortune Teller - if you can play both in 1 turn, you deny allowing the opponent to topdeck good cards, and mess up the previous Well and/or FV interaction. You may allow them to topdeck Coppers which get discarded though, so be careful (want to make sure they at least have 1 Victory card in their deck.)
Develop/Herald - You can guarantee a Herald hit since the action you want to hit can be placed 2nd from the top.
An interaction I like is Courtyard/Native Village. Not great for increasing handsize, but having them both in your engine deck ensures you can set the green cards you gain aside on the NV mat every turn. Similar to how Apothecary/Native Village works, but you can set aside the green cards in your starting hand too.
Swindler/Peddler: If the Peddlers are likely to run out, your Swindlers could end up turning opponents' Peddlers into Provinces; otherwise they could turn their Provinces into Peddlers.
Counterfeit/Fool's Gold is a fun and potentially useful one
BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
Here are two strong combos I saw recently that are probably well known, but that i had to learn about the hard way by losing to them.
Scheme/conspirator: simple. just get two schemes and have them topdeck themselves. Now your conspirators are always activated every turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1428010853731.txt
University/watchtower: play universities to gain actions and topdeck them with watchtower. Then play the watchtower to put the gained actions into your hand and play them with the plus actions provided by university. If you gain a second watchtower and some handsize decreasing actions, you may be able to do this more than once in a turn. Example game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150406/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1428344689079.txt
Quarry/Grand Market.
Not sure if this one was mentioned, but this is a combo I miss very often. With just a little bit of trashing, lining up multiple Quarries is not too hard. Then Grand Markets with the +Buy creates a very nice feedback loop.
Stables and Crossroads - one of my favorite draw engines.
Council Room/Pillage: Council Room vastly increases the potency of Pillage's attack, the chances of you hitting a hand that was bad anyways decrease quite a lot. You can also play multiple Pillages on your opponent in a turn which is much more potent as well (though that's probably only feasible with Throne Room and the like). Plus, the draw and buys that Council Room gives you help you make use of the Spoils you get.
Very few times do I consider Pillage to be a legitimate attack, but Council Room is probably the best enabler out there.
Quarry/Talisman: Relatively well-known, but the big bummer about Talisman is that it can't gain $5+ cards, and Quarry fixes that. Sure, other cost reduction works for this, but Quarry is also a treasure, stacks easily for Actions, and lets you get $6 cards too.
Menagerie/Warehouse: Menagerie is enabled strongly by cards that allow you to discard selectively from your hand, but Warehouse gets a special mention because it's much, much better than other cards for enabling Menagerie decks. You can draw most of your deck without Copper trashing, you can green heavily and not really stall all that much, which are things you're hard-pressed to do with other discarders.
As promised, here is my spiel.
So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.
The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.
So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.
So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.
So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.
Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.
I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.
Also, you quoted Ghost Ship/Wishing Well which is a counter, not a combo. So I am more confused about what you're looking for than before. :P
Inheritance/Baron is a pretty obvious, but nice, interaction.At first I thought:
Fishing Village/Wharf is very strong, agreed, but it's a generic rather than a specific combo, yesno? It's village + terminal draw, just two expletiveing excellent examples of said types.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Feels like a nombo to me.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Feels like a nombo to me.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Feels like a nombo to me.
Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards games.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Feels like a nombo to me.
Umm, no. I have played a few Vineyards game with Death Cart and most often I won. One DC buy increases each Vineyard in value by 1 point. If you tie the split, that's a 4 VP gain right there. If you somehow win the split 5/3, you're getting 5 VP right there. DC is pretty good in Vineyards games.
So it's a $4 somewhat-better-than-duchy. Seems reasonably good, but by no means game-shattering.
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.
Not sure if this belongs here, and I'm kind of afraid to post it, but Swamp Hag/Events is an interesting interaction. Swamp Hag gives Curses for buying cards, Events are not cards. So going for Events on a Swamp Hagged turn might be a thing.Swamp Hag vs Alms? Buying Alms gains you a $4-cost but you didn't buy that $4-cost.
Ball is also decent for this. And I guess Seaway?
DC sounds like something that you'd only buy on the last turn in Vineyards games for the points or pile control.
It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.
Death Cart/Vineyards is nice. Clearly you wouldn't build a deck around it, but if you have a strong Vineyards deck anyway, not only does Death Cart pump up your Vineyards by 1 each time (as long as Ruins remain), but they can help you end the game since you only need 5 of them to empty a pile.
Feels like a nombo to me.
In what sense? Obviously you're not going to want to actually play the Death Carts, so it's a very late-game thing. But if you want Vineyards anyway, upgrading them by a full point for $4 and a buy is great value.
I feel guilty for +1'ing this post...It's already listed somewhere under combos, but Scavenger/Stash is like unlocking a cheat code.
Up up down down left right left right B A Start
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
Dur... Right it says "non-Victory" doesn't it? It's hard to remember these things without using these cards yet.But Distant Lands are "Action-Reserve-Victory"I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
Right, but it's Action-Reserve-Victory, and Inheritance only works on non-Victory Action cards.
It's also too expensive without cost reduction.
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
That's probably part of why Inheritance doesn't work on Victory cards.
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
They would be 5/1. Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP. The gained effects are additions, not replacements.
I wonder... Had anyone tried to Inherit Distant Estates? Is that a thing?
Ignoring everything below this: How would this work? Are they 5/1 or 4/0 victory points? Food for thought.
They would be 5/1. Estate gains the effects of the chosen card, but it also keeps its Estate name, $2 cost and base 1VP. The gained effects are additions, not replacements.
But the effect of the chosen card is that it's worth 0 if not on your Tavern mat at the end of that game.
Since there is no official ruling on such matters, obviously there is no answer...
Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?
This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.
Is the score calculated at the moment the game ends, or after the game ends? Because I would figure that the "end of the game" is actually still part of the game.This seems obvious by the wording of the Event - Estates specifically gain the abilities and types of the set aside card. Vineyard cares about the type of the card in question, so Inherited Estates should count for Vineyard.
This is not at all obvious to me when the wording in the FAQ says "for the rest of the game, all of your Estates have the abilities and types of the set aside card." Do inherited Estates become normal Estates at the end of the game when you're counting points, or do they stay inherited Estates?
Do inherited Estates count as Action cards at the end of the game when totaling Vineyards points?Yes.
Just thought of this:
Storyteller/Treasure Trove:
Just thought of this:
Storyteller/Treasure Trove:
Man, I just posted this one (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13103.msg489081#msg489081).
Has anybody mentioned IGG+Apprentice+Graverobber?
Buy one IGG, trash it with Apprentice, gain it back with Graverobber, give your opponent a kajillion curses in the process.
Only works with a pretty thin deck and a secondary strategy but...
IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".
IGG + gain-from-trash lets you use the on-gain ability from IGG more without junking up your deck. It's the combination of those that would qualify it as a "combo".
Gaining from the trash junks your deck up just as much as gaining from the supply.
Trashing and gaining back the same card over and over junks you up as much as buying a ton of copies of that card?
Half the point of IGG is emptying the pile. Then you just have to empty one more pile, and if you won the IGG split, you win. Gaining the same IGG over and over again is kind of undermining that. I could see Graverobber as possibly undermining a player who wants to rush IGGs, as a way to stall the end of the game. But then you'd need a card to trash IGG in the first place... and yeah, not seeing it.
Royal Carriage + Haunted Woods.
Although it doesn't duplicate the attack, +6 cards at the start of your turn is ridiculous for engines. I played two games where every turn I would draw my entire deck and play the other set of RC+HW each turn for massive draw and a constant attack.
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.
Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.
Counterfeit/Spoils: You're quite happy trashing the Spoils since you'd be losing it anyway.
Actually, Counterfeit trashes the Treasure after you've played it twice, and by then, Spoils has already returned itself to its pile and Counterfeit has lost track of it and it can no longer be trashed.
Mint - Platinum?Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
And on a Platinum board those could get you to $9 quicklyMint - Platinum?Mint-Fool's Gold and Mint-Venture are probably more what the OP was looking for. Those treasure cards actually improve if you proliferate copies of them in your deck.
These are especially useful when there are no villages in the kingdom but you want to play multiple terminals.
I think Cultist and Scheme have an interesting relationship. By "interesting" I'm talking the same type of interesting as Minion and Tunnel -- I often say that if these two cards' relationship was on facebook, it would be listed as "It's Complicated".
Scheme enables engines on Cultist boards where they otherwise might not be strong enough. Usually on Cultist boards the junking is too much, too fast, and you just end up playing Cultist+BM and being sad, but with Scheme you can top-deck Villages or other goodies and have an engine that's reliable enough to compete sometimes. Building that engine is very difficult, though.
I just had a good come-from-behind with Duke-Duplicate. It was a Colony board with strong engine potential, so no one was interested in Duchies. When I saw I was behind, I began accumulating Duplicates with gainers (storing them on my Tavern mat), then on the last turn I used them to gain a bunch of Dukes and Duchies and make up for a 4-Colony deficit.That looks like a lot of fun. I'm gonna have to try that sometime. I guess it would prefer an engine - but maybe it could work with just a chapel? (Trim your deck to Chapel/Silver/Silver/Copper/Nothing)
I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy. My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver. He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him). Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
Yeah he opened Ironmonger instead. Still was a cool interaction. He didn't even buy a Cultist either (just Mountebanks, Ironmongers, and a Possession a little too late).I'm not sure if it's been said before, but I just played a game with Trader/Embargo that had interesting synergy. My opponent Embargo'd Cultists, and I eventually discovered that buying a Cultist with Trader in hand was essentially Cultist + free Silver. He didn't even bother buying any Traders either (basically his Embargo backfired and hurt him). Not sure if it's good just thought it was cool.Your opponent was a fool for not picking up a Trader, I think. While generally filling your deck with Silver isn't the greatest of things, having a Silver rather than a Curse (from Embargo) or a Ruins (from your Cultists) is going to be a decent compromise. And I suspect you'd get enough Silvers from that to play a Cultist rush, emptying Duchies, Ruins and a third pile of your choice fairly quickly.
Mine + Ill-Gotten Gains. Mine silvers and IGGs into more IGGs.
I haven't run this in a simulator, but in a IGG rush I'm pretty sure it's worth buying after your first IGG, if you have at least one silver in your deck. Hitting mine in the same hand as a silver or IGG is likely to result in 2 IGG gains that turn.
1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3)??????Gain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Action.
4) Profit.
1) Procession Wine Merchant.
2) Keep Wine Merchant.
3)??????Gain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png) Action.
4) Profit.
Woah, you can do that!?
"Hey guys, i'm Procession. Ask me what a Band of Misfits i played costs, and i will find it anywhere, be it trash, your hand, Island or Tavern Mat, whatever, to look at its price and tell you. What, wait, i'm supposed to move it? Sorry, no idea where it is."
Three cards, so not really a combo, but
Open Armory/Loan
If you're lucky enough for them to collide at any point (the earlier the better), play Armory to gain a Tunnel.
Play Loan
Wheee!
Bureaucrat/Loan is even better
Trader-Cache
Not THAT neat, but better than just Cache by itself.
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue. Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame. With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue. (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4. So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers. Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue. Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame. With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue. (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4. So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers. Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue. Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame. With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue. (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4. So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers. Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.
Bonus: Mining Village gained through Rogue won't miss reshuffle if you shuffle during that turn; your two Silvers would.
What if MV itself causes the reshuffle? ;)
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue. Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame. With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue. (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4. So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers. Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
What? Mining Village draws a card. Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash). Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.
Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable. Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.
not all that much different than
One I don't see mentioned that I've used to good effect is Mining Village/Rogue. Usually you save those $2 from trashing Mining Village to the endgame. With Rogue in hand, you can trash it, then get it back with Rogue. (I think it also works with Graverobber, but then you don't get the additional $2 from Rogue.)Mining Village - Rogue will give you a net of 0 actions, -1 cards, and $4. So its not all that much different than just having 2 Silvers. Also, a Harvest or Tribute can give you almost the same effect.
What? Mining Village draws a card. Starting from a regular 5 card hand, you end with 4 other cards in hand with which to do something, though you also have the option to not trash Mining Village and use Rogue as an attack (or to gain something else from the trash). Two Silvers are pure stop cards, which only leaves you 3 other cards in hand, no draw.
Harvest leaves you with 0 actions remaining and is far less reliable. Tribute is even less reliable, and terminal if you get +$4 from it.
I didn't say it was the exact same, I said it wasnot all that much different than
IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.
You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn). Infinite card draw.
It works in the sense of being within the rules.You can Bonfire Hirelings you've played and Graverob them later (maybe on a Mission turn). Infinite card draw.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, right?
IGG-Duchy games are often decided on one player hitting a lucky Province or 2. With Coppersmith or 2, spiking such a Province is obviously easier. I doubt whether always getting the free Copper is optimal as opposed to only picking the Coppers when you need to hit $5/$8.IGG-Coppersmith
Seems to be better than just IGG, assuming an IGG-Curse-Duchy 3-pile game.
Given a board where IGG Rush is the best option, Coppersmith in the long run looks better than a lot of $4 cost cards. In the initial shuffle or two it isn't that great - not better than Silver at getting IGGs, but what it makes up for later is boosting to Province without completely clogging your deck with Copper. Cool idea.
I had a board which had me with no choice but to play Bishop and IGG. It's obviously an awful pair in the sense that your opponent gets to trash Curses for free, but getting 3 points in exchange for an IGG trash without even necessarily losing economy that turn is rather nice.
With cost reduction, Summon Distant Lands. Can also Summon Islands without the cost reduction.
I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...Wine Merhant isn't unreasonable at all for games with expensive components you want quickly, such as King's Court or Forge or especially Grand Market. The card is also less bad than it looks when you have more than one of them, as the same $2 can free all of your Wine Merchants at once. I think it is a bit underrated. I would have rated it above a lot of garbage $5s if I actually got around to filling out my poll this year :(
Ferry/Band of Misfits is interesting. First put the -$2 token on the BoM, and later move it to another $6 (Goons!!) or $5 action pile.
what is the advantage to putting it on the misfits first?
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!
That's not how Messenger works. You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!
That's not how Messenger works. You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains
You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
Also, in an IGG game you probably don't want to trash the copper anyway, since you're probably rushing IGG/Duchy or some other alt-VP, so you only need your deck to average Ł1 per card and it's likely to be picking up lots of curses...Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains
You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
This seems cool, but I have to wonder when in an IGG game are you going to be buying that Counterfeit instead of another IGG?
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains
You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
Mint/Quest : open Mint/Curse on 5/2.Nice.
Ferry + Stonemason
Maximize the overbuy effect of Stonemason by making it cost 0! Now you can get a Stonemason and two 4-cost actions for 4 coins, or a Stonemason and two 5-cost actions for 5 coins! Why reduce the cost of one action when you can reduce the cost of ALL actions?
Counterfeit+Ill-Gotten Gains
You can produce a Copper with IGG, then Counterfeit it away.
That's a neat interaction, but there's an even neater interaction between Counterfeit and IGG. You can Counterfeit the IGG away.
Alms + Mint/Mandarin: Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.
Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy): Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms. Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.
i think mint/remake is the best opening in the game:Alms + Mint/Mandarin: Mint and Mandarin remove your Treasures from play, so if you have a spare buy, you can use Alms to pick up a $4 card for free.
Alms + Woodcutter variant (or any virtual money with +buy): Play Woodcutter, buy a $2 card, get a $4 card from Alms. Not super-powerful (a gainer would often be faster if there is one), but if there are good cards at $2 and $4, it can help you build your engine faster than those who are trying to buy their components with Treasure.
Alms/Mint opening sounds brutal, especially for the opponent.
Watchtower/Death Cart/Summon
I realize this is a bit of a stretch, but hear me out: Summon a Death Cart, Watchtower 1 or both of the Ruins to the top of your deck (trash one if you like), allowing Summon to set aside DC. Then on your next turn you get +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png), you eat that Ruins, and have 4 more cards with which to scrounge up a Province.
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1. 720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1. 720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.
Well, given 250 cards (no promos), you get 10/250 for card 1, 9/249 for card 2, and 8/248 for event 1. 720/15438000 = or 1 in every 21441 games.I think that the event drawing is independent, and if I'm not mistaken the probability of drawing a specific event should always be 10/(#cards+1)=10/251.
(It's been a while since stats, I might have done this totally wrong but it sounds right to me).
So, I'd answer 900/15624750, or one in 17361, save Young Witch and without promos.
Ah, irl we just assigned them numbers along with the rest of the cards and played them if they were randomed, so my numbers are based on that. It definitely would change things if events are chosen separately.
And yes, I suppose my numbers ignore young witch and black market as well.
Event cards can also be shuffled into the randomizer deck.But I skipped the recommendation, just as I skipped the recommendation about Potion-cost cards. (ok, ok, I'm lazy).
Events are not part of the 10 Kingdom cards used in a game; when an Event is turned over, put it on the table but keep turning over cards until you get 10 Kingdom cards.
For normal play we recommend using at most two Events per game; skip any further Events.
Skip Events when using a randomizer card to determine whether or not to use PlatinumPlatinum.jpg/ColonyColony.jpg (from Prosperity), or Shelters (from Dark Ages) in a game.
Events cannot be Young Witch'sYoung Witch.jpg bane (from Cornucopia).
I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):
0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.
Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):
0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
, or, like the Alchemy recommendation, comes from somebody else entirely?Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.
Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):
0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?
Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?
Because of the 2 event limit, you can't simply look at the chance that a certain event comes up before you draw 10 kingdom cards alone. You also need to know whether it is the first or second event, as future events won't be used.This, if I'm not wrong, gives:
Fortunately, every event has an equal probability of showing up, so if you calculate the average number of events that show up in a game, then that number is divided evenly among the 20 (21 with Summon) events. You can determine the distribution of the number of events that show up with the negative hypergeometric distribution. As of Adventures and 20 events, jonts26 did the following calculation of the chance for different numbers of events (I believe assuming 235 Kingdom cards).I should have actually used negative hyper geometric instead of a naive binomial in my last post. Real probabilities are (for all cards):
0 events: 43.5%
1 event: 35.5%
2+ events: 21.0%
It's a recommendation; I don't remember what led to it but for sure I was involved.Is the 2 event limit just recommendation by Donald X. or considered law?
Recommended by the Adventures rulebook, I believe, and presumably it will be the implementation in random games on Making Fun. It's also standard in the randomizer app I use, and probably other apps as well.
Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.
Taxman/Stables: Stables often draws you a bunch of cards, so you can Taxman just the right treasure to smooth your economy and hit the price point you need. It also guarantees you a treasure in your next hand. Just watch out for opposing Taxmen.
This combo came up during UConn. Adam used it to win.
Trader/Save (Also, Moat/Save, which is probably even better.)
Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.
Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.
Summon/Transmogrify was pretty good. Grsbmd used it quite a few times in the finals to good effect.
Transmogrify's main drawback is that it's really slow and can miss shuffles, but Summon gets it in play right away if you want it.
Along those same lines, you could probably also Prince a Transmogrify and have it be pretty good, though I've never actually tried this. Since it's the start of your turn when you play it, you can call it back right away and discard it every turn (I think Prince should still be able to set it aside even though it was on the Tavern Mat instantaneously). It would be similar in spirit one of those Procession-based engines, I guess. On some boards, it might be great, but a lot of times, there's probably something better to Prince.
I don't know how well known these combos already are, but they haven't been mentioned here:
Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.
Inheritance/Followers No longer do you have a crippling attack that self-junks you, but a crippling attack which gains you a nice card on top. The only problem is having to hit eight and seven once, but the combo is still great when you inherit something after playing followers a few times (or the lovely 7$ hands before hitting Province, obviously)
I'm pretty sure Followers is a combo unto itself. Once you have it, you win.
Ball/Bridge Troll: Like with the other cost reduction cards, a 5$ hand can give you two 5-costs. What makes this special is that the drawback of Ball is basically mitigated by your opponent playing a Brdige Troll anyway.
Secret Chamber/Moat
Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.
Secret Chamber/Moat
Reveal SC, draw Moat into hand.
Reveal Moat to be protected from Attack.
Reveal SC again to put Moat back on top of deck.
If you know your opponent isn't going to play any more Attacks, put SC on top as well.
I would say that is neat, but it it must be compared to opportunity cost. Moat and SC are both generally bad $2 cards, and attack cards that are worth buying are (obviously I'm generalizing here) usually good cads. So getting the Moat and SC in the first place (much less having enough of each of them to reliably connect in the manner you describe) should be compared to having other better cards instead.
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.
Unless you're gaining Tunnels with Transmogrify, but that's a three-card interaction.transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.
I think you mean Ratcatcher/Guide.
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.
transmogrify / guide use the transmorgify at the start of your turn to trash and then call guide to draw a new hand of five cards. works best with multiple transmogrifies on your tavern mat.
The whole point of Transmogrify is that you get to use what you upgrade into right away. You can't trash and gain nothing with Transmogrify (excluding the edge case of an empty Copper and Curse pile).
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.
I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.
I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.
My keyboard finger is itching to post some of Scout's overlooked neat and potentially useful card interactions.
I'll post later tonight or tomorrow morning unless people strongly advise me against this.
Watchtower/Messenger/Scout
Allows you to buy a Messenger and give each opponent a Scout. It's a three-card-interaction, but sooooooo nasty.
You'd think Curse would be better for this, but Curse can at least be drawn by Vagrant!
1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
7: SHE_MCCCE - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: SSSHC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: SHCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Expedition, Gain Madman
10: _MMMMHHS - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (45 coins)1: CCCEE - Buy Hermit
2: CCCCE - Buy Hermit
3: _HCCCE - Trash Estate, Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
4: HCCCE - Gain Market Square, Buy Market Square
5: EC_HCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Market Square
6: SHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEE_H - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
7: SSHCCCC - Gain Market Square, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: MHCCC - Gain Market Square, Gain Madman
8: _SSHCCCC - Gain Hermit, Buy Mission, Gain Madman
*: SSHEECC - Gain Hermit, Gain Madman
9: MMMSC - Megaturn with 6x Market Square (48 coins)
My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
But then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
Sorry I didn't realise you were still referring to ball. -.-'Ball serves as Psuedo + buyBut then you need another source of +buy. Travelling fair is great because it provides both +buy and topdecking.My IRL game last night had an interesting combo come up. The event cards were Ball and Travelling Fair.It also works with royal seal and watchtower.
http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=Adventures if you are not familiar with the events.
Treasure map was also on the board. I discovered that with my first turn with 7 money, I buy Ball (so that I can put gained cards on top of my deck) then Travelling Fair, gaining two treasure maps. Guaranteed treasure map action! The other guys in my group also made that move as soon as they had 7 money too so it didn't give me the distinct advantage, but it was a fun combo to find.
These are both speculative, but they seem promising.
Cultist + Save
A Cultist chain is a great way to draw a bunch of other action cards you can't play! Normally, to play other action cards after Cultist, you need to lead with a village. But it takes a lot of villages to reliably open with a village. It's really sad to open with no village, play a bunch of Cultists and draw a village (and other action cards). Well, with Save and a couple villages, you only need to experience this sadness once; simply save the unplayed village for your next turn! Rinse and repeat for a decent engine fueled off of Cultist's draw.
Cultist + Coin of the Realm
Or, even better, grab a couple Coins of the Realm. Because they're treasures, you can play them after a Cultist chain. On the next turn, you can play your Cultist chain and call Coin of the Realm if you have any other actions you want to play. Play your second Coin of the Realm and you're in a great position!
Bonfire + Hunting groundsCool. Bonfire + Squire might also be a decent way to get expensive attacks like Goons, Familiar, and Scrying Pool.
On your last turn, buy 6VP for $3.
Training + Scheme.Better: pathfinding +scheme
Training + Scheme.Better: pathfinding +scheme
Training + Scheme.Better: pathfinding +scheme
I think you guys just came up with treasury and alchemist.
Gear is just the best.
Copper + Estate
If you have 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, you can start another game of Dominion.
Highway+Teacher:
Well, Teacher combos with everything, but if you put your tokens "+card" and "+buy" on highway, it's gg.
Sage/Sea Hag
Open Sage/Sea Hag on a 4/3 especially if there's no trashing. Buy nothing but sages until the pile is gone. Play Sea Hag every turn to dominate the curse split. It is very unlikely that the opponent will be able to regroup in time to overcome a points deficit before you run out another cheap pile like estates.
So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck.
The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.
So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck.
The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.
It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out. I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
That's probably the main problem then. Ignoring sea hag when your opponent does not, is basically game over, especially when there isn't any viable trashing.
So I tried this, and it doesn't really work. If you have a starting hand of something like sage/sage/sage/copper/estate and the only thing that sages can draw is sea hag and other sages, then you will end with a hand of sea hag/copper/estate and you won't be able to buy anything. Flooding your deck with sages is just as terrible as it sounds. Even on a big money board, your opponent will be able to get one or two provinces and then spike some duchies, so you need to get duchies also to compete. But as soon as you get duchies, your sages will draw them. Yuck.
The only way this strategy is ever going to work is if your opponent ignores sea hag AND trashing. IE: you can beat the MF bots with this, sometimes, in about 30 turns.
It's possible that I got lucky to hit 3 enough times to make it work out. I have done it against several opponents and they had ignored Sea Hag initially until they had already been hit 4 or 5 times in a row.
Why sad? Don't you like Gear. I know I do.Gear is just the best.
:'(
It's sad because it's true.
Why sad? Don't you like Gear. I know I do.Gear is just the best.
:'(
It's sad because it's true.
Why sad? Don't you like Gear. I know I do.Gear is just the best.
:'(
It's sad because it's true.
I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
But do you like it in a box? Do you like it with a fox?
Why sad? Don't you like Gear. I know I do.Gear is just the best.
:'(
It's sad because it's true.
I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
Why sad? Don't you like Gear. I know I do.Gear is just the best.
:'(
It's sad because it's true.
I do not like it, microman. I do not like BM-Gear spam.
I'm still not a believer in Gear. I'll concede that it's on par with Smithy-BM or a bit better than that, but beyond that? I don't see it.
Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).
Also works with King's Court (and is slightly better with it).
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.
This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:
* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards
Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.
All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.
Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:
* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards
Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.
All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.
I'm sorry if this was pointed out before, but Possession/Haunted Woods seems to offer a way to lock an opponent out of the game - provided his deck is good enough. Which is especially nasty as if, in a 2 player game, both build an engine to draw their deck, the one to be able and play Possession/Haunted Woods first, has a good chance to win just because of this.
Stef described this combo in an Adventures preview thread:This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:
* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards
Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.
All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.
Thanks. Thinking of it, this seems familiar. But why in the world is he talking about buying a Copper? A deck that draws itself should be able to pick up engine parts instead, making it easier, not harder, to repeat the process. I guess it's the case if your opponent's deck has so little money it can't buy anything better (sans the five bad cards), but that makes trashing the premise for a situation where you need trashing. Which is especially weird as he immediately before talked about going for Possession, which costs quite a lot...
The interaction is also interesting in that an opponent's Haunted Woods may actually help you to line up your Potion with enough money to buy Possession.
Another BM synergy:
Courtyard + Quest
Courtyard provides the 6-card hands to guarantee Gold via Quest. Courtyard can save Gold for the next turn when a Province is out of reach. Simple and effective. This strategy is very fast, reliable, and pretty resilient to greening. It gets destroyed by any handsize attack, though.
Strategy:Solitaire Results:
- Open Courtyard + Courtyard.
- Whenever you have the coin, buy a Province.
- If not, use Quest to gain a Gold (or buy a Duchy late-game).
- If you have a hand with no Courtyard, buy a third Courtyard or a Duchy.
I played three solitaire games with this strategy. In the first two, I stopped at turn 13, after acquiring 33 VP. In the first game, I ended with 5 Provinces, 5 Golds, and 3 Courtyards. In the second game, I ended with 4 Provinces, 2 Duchies, 5 Golds, and 2 Courtyards. In the third game, I decided to simulate playing against alt-VP. I bought all 8 Provinces by turn 18.
You know what's even better though? Gear + Quest! You can always set aside exactly as many cards as you did the previous turn and still guarantee a Gold, plus you can keep those golds shuffling along for Province buys!I played a few solitaire games with Gear + Quest. I had fantastic draws in my first game and got to 5 Provinces by turn 12! The next game, my draws were poor and it took me 16 turns to get the same amount of VP (I'm willing to believe that I played this sub-optimally). I thought the draws on my third game were hit and miss, but I managed to get 5 Provinces by turn 12 again (and an additional 9 VP by turn 14 - though my turn 15 was terrible).
Gear is still the best
One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke. Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards. With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card. So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.
One good enabler I haven't seen listed here is Storeroom + Duchy/Duke. Duchy/Duke decks typically struggle from getting overwhelmed with green cards. With Storeroom (assuming no hand-size attacks), as long as you have a Silver in the other 4 cards in your hand or in your top 4 cards, you are guaranteed a 5-cost card. So Storeroom continues to grab 5-cost cards even with a very low money density.Also keeps yourmoney density up when you spends its extra buys on copper.
It's very similar to Horse Traders/Duke in that respect, except Horse Traders/Duke is a bit more resilient to discard attacks.
Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.
Transmogrify is super good at milling provinces.
Not sure if this has been posted but transmogrify peddler is super good; better than any other trash for benefit peddler.
I don't think this is the case. I mean sure you're sometimes going to Transmogrify Peddlers into Provinces, but I think Butcher is trivially a better combo with Peddler.
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.Also you don't need to collide the province and your butcher. Transmogrify can just sit on your tavern mat waiting for the perfect time to end the game.
I don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are closeI don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.". They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
Haven + Treasure Map
Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler. A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there. Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.
I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy. To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns. Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library. It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Haven + Treasure Map
Haven might be the best Treasure Map enabler. A Haven or two makes it very likely that you can match up your two Treasure Maps, but the synergy doesn't end there. Haven also helps you smooth out your four Gold economy - especially in a single-buy kingdom.
I recently lost to an opponent that demonstrated the power of this synergy. To be sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on in the kingdom otherwise*, so it was the ideal situation for Treasure Map.
* I tried for a thin single-Tactician deck to buy a Province and play Ambassador every 2-3 turns. Our other opponent did not get an Ambassador and tried to spike Provinces occasionally with Warehouse + terminal Library. It was a Shelters game, so Ambassador wasn't too dominant.
I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Draw your alt-vp :(I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?Draw your alt-vp :(I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
I don't get it :(By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?Draw your alt-vp :(I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.I don't get it :(By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?Draw your alt-vp :(I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Only Alt-VP I could see buying while still trying to collide maps.I don't get it :(By that you obviously mean Nobles, right?Draw your alt-vp :(I played Haven/Treasure Map once. The turn my Treasure Maps collided was the turn I got possessed. I resigned. Then cried.
Clearly, you should have gotten Scout. Scout is a great defense against Possession. If your opponent possessed a hand of Scouts, what can they do besides improve your next hand? ;)
Inheritance+Bridge Troll:The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.
Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.
In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
Inheritance+Bridge Troll:The problem is that bridge troll doesn't help you hit 7.
Have a Bridge Troll in Play.
Inherit Bridge Troll.
Get multiple Pseudo-Bridge Trolls (estates) at no cost.
In an enginey context (Draw, +actions), it explodes.
I now renounce my claim that transmogrify is a better tfb with peddler. I forgot about butcher. I think they are closeI don't agree at all that butcher is better for this. Besides the fact that Transmogrify is non-terminal, you also just need one Province in hand to mill it several times.
LF's reply was to your assertion that Transmogrify-Peddler is "better than any other trash for benefit peddler.". They're saying that Butcher is a better TfB with Peddler in general, not necessarily that it's better if your goal is purely to mill Provinces.
I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.
Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.
I've mentioned this before, but there's Magpie and Stash. When Magpie causes a shuffle, guarantee that the reveal will hit a Treasure.
Catacombs is really funny with the -1 card token. Because of the wording of the card, if you choose the first three cards, you get them all. If you choose the next three cards, you only get two of them.
I'd say that magpie being a powerful engine enabler probably decreases the odds that you are looking at a kingdom where you actually want a stash.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.With one +buy card in play and Trader in hand, you can buy a Silver for $0.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.
With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers :P
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.
And topdeck any number of them, which is something you may sometimes want to do.
With Trader in hand and Feodum also in your hand, you can have paid $4 for 7 silvers.
With Trader and Peddler in hand, you can have paid $0 for 8 Silvers :PI think that's not true, right?
Nevermind, reading comprehension.
Transmogrify + Rats
Trash your starting cards (and curses/ruins) with Rats, and turn Rats into 5-cost cards with Transmogrify.
I just played a game with this recently. It's a lot like Upgrade + Rats, but without the pile-emptying degenerate strategies. Transmogrify is a little slower to play, but it puts the 5-cost card right into your 6-card hand. It's especially strong with situational 5-cost cards. This strategy can be a little dangerous with other sources of card draw; you need the Rats to be in your starting hand to trash them. I believe this is one of the most powerful Rat synergies.
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.
Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.
To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.
Don't you gain the doctor before you trash?Goons + doctor
Play a bunch of goons buy a bunch of copper doctor trash it. This requires you too draw your deck.
To clarify you mean Doctor overpay? So it requires you have $3 plus the number of Copper you buy in hand, but your deck state is left as is? That's pretty cool and doable I think.
Well, you have that extra Doctor - but that's better than loads of Coppers.
No because it's an on buy type of effectI am not good at rules :)
I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.Transmogrify is nonterminal.
Playing it is nonterminal, invoking it (at start of next turn at the earliest) isn't. Well, at least it isn't +action.I am not getting where the "+action" comes from.Transmogrify is nonterminal.
Lookout and Rogue. Not a super-combo by any means, but you might be happier playing Lookout further into the mid/end-game knowing that even if you have to trash something useful, it's not gone forever (and if it's a card like Duchy then that's equivalent to discarding it off your deck which you could be quite happy about).
I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".
If you miss click and trash a duchy you can gain it back. See combo ;)I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".
Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
Either trash-for-benefit or trash-with-risk (as maybe the case with something like Upgrade or Junk Dealer?). I was focusing on Lookout and Rogue mostly because they're both weaker cards that definitely benefit quite a bit from the synergy with each other.I think you can generalize that "combo" as "trasher / from-trash gainer".
Specifically, trash-for-benefit / from-trash gainer. I wouldn't call e.g. Chapel/Graverobber a combo.
Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?
Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
Is it actually worth taking a turn off from buying your Gears to get rid of your Estates?
Just played against a bot where doing that I got all the Colonies by turn 20. That means it took at least 16 turns to get 4 Colonies, but there were a few turns between 4 and 8 where I got Platinum or another Gear (bot bought a Giant), so it was more like 12-14 turns.
Plan is actually super fucking good any time you plan on buying 3 of anything cheap. I think it's the most underrated event right now.
Like opening Plan / Fishing Village I'm convinced is one of the top openings I've ever done, you get a 10 card deck where you either spike 5 or guarantee two 5s in a row shuffle 3 by buying two more Fishing Villages and clearing your Estates. I used this open to pivot toward 5 cost draw cards / attacks (Margrave) and then cleaned house. I love when a good Plan comes together.
Bandit Camp / Alms
Produce all your $ with spoils, then buy an alms anyway with a spare buy.
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost. It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost. It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost. It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
That's why I specified reliable. Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support. You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP). But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost. It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
That's why I specified reliable. Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support. You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP). But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".
And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.
Wharf/Outpost is bonkers if you have enough +Action, maybe some trashing. Especially if you win the Wharf split.
It's not so much Wharf/Outpost as it is [any reliable engine]/Outpost. It's generally a weak or mediocre card, but with the right deck a single Outpost can literally double your deck output.
I think Wharf works especially well with it because you can play your Wharves before you play Outpost, rather than hoping to draw your starting pieces in your 3 card hand.
That's why I specified reliable. Wharf alone doesn't work well because (as you pointed out) you need a lot of village support. You could also do something with Scheme (especially with stuff like KC or SP). But again, these are just examples of the general "reliable engine".
And there are many other ways to guarantee a starting hand that allows you to kick off - Alchemist, Caravan, Hireling, Haven, Save, Dungeon, Gear, Prince and Expedition come to mind, and there are more obscure, difficult ways to do it such as involving Scavenger.
Herald + Jack of All Trades
I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play. This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands. You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn. One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.
Herald + Jack of All Trades
I often overlook Herald's top-decking ability and focus on its play. This isn't particularly specific to Jack, but it can be helpful late game if you hit that $5,6,7 hand and you have Golds in the discard. In a Jack BM strategy you don't have a lot of buying targets with those hands. You'd normally do Gold or Duchy, but overpaying Herald can let you guarantee a Province next turn. One that you buy in the mid-game may turn out to be useful as well, though its probably as likely to be drawn Dead with Jack than to play a Jack when you draw it.
This is overall not worth it, if not detrimental. Adding tons of Silver to your deck is just going to hurt Herald. The only way this is conceivable is if you're using Jack's Silver gaining ability to get some sort of payload, trashing the Silver.
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!Found that one out in a game with Fragsnap's Patrol (From Greed). If you trash a card costing 3 or more, you can dig for any card. That was interesting.
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!
Raze-Fortress is fantastic. You trash Fortress, pick whatever card you want, and then you still get a village to play!
Fortress has a positive interaction with trash-for-benefit. Who would have thought!
A neat and potentially useful card interaction that was not previously mentioned. Who would have thought!
Upvoted, but I guess Awaclus's point is that you should generally assume Fortress has a neat and potentially useful card interaction with every trash for benefit card unless proven otherwise.
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.
Bridge, Hermit, Alms.
Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.
Bridge, Hermit, Alms.
Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.
I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.
So, I thought of a combo. It requires 2 cards and an Event.
Bridge, Hermit, Alms.
Essentially you gain Madmen with Hermit and buy Bridges with Alms.
I think the combo here is just Hermit + Alms. Bridge may make it stronger, but it's not in any way essential for this.
You need a $4 or lower megaturn payload though. Bridge and Market Square are the only ones that immediately come to my mind.
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.) You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate). Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck. Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something.also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors
With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.
Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.) You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate). Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck. Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something.also with governor sorta: ferry on governor, whoops now whenever you do the remodel one adamh can turn his estate into governors
With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.
Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
Royal carriage/Black Market
Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice.
Royal carriage/Black Market
Throne room lets you play the bomb you picked up out of the black market twice. King's court lets you play it three times. But royal carriage can let you play the single knight you got from the black market deck up to 10 times per turn.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160513/log.0.1463179304694.txt
Ferry has an interesting 'offensive' interaction with Swindler/Saboteur. (There is also the interaction with Knight/Warrior/Giant type trashing to bring cards in or out of the range, but I'm specifically talking about the trash-and-replace cards.) You can junk along different lines with Swindler (maybe going $2 -> Curse instead of $2->Estate). Though more for certain price points.. sometimes there isn't good junk at $3, but maybe Poor House is in the kingdom and would be bad for your opponent's deck. Or $4 ->Estate, or $6 -> Potion instead of Gold or something.
With Saboteur, it effectively 'downgrades worse' to $4 less instead of $2 less.
Not sure if it's ever really worth it.
Spy+Peasant.
Gain many spies.
Cycle your cards with spies a bit faster (little bonus).
Discard opponent travellers (great bonus).
If necessary, put teachers +card on spy.
Play a soldier after many spies that gives you tons of coins.
Guess that many players won't anticipate the latter ...
I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.
Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
I have no idea if this has been discussed already. Probably.The problem is often you start with 3 card hands in a mercenary game so this is bad as your olny draw. (Hard to line up mercenary,fortress *2 after playing a fortress)
Mercenary + Fortress. I haven't played much Mercenary in general, so it seems to me that feeding it cards to activate it would be a problem; you only get to play it a few times before you don't have junk you want to trash. And it does nothing at all if you don't trash 2 cards. But with Fortress, suddenly you don't need to worry about that! Also, as Mercenary is terminal draw, you really want to play a Village first. Well Fortress has you covered there too. Of course, you need 3 Fortresses and a Mercenary in hand in order to pull this off, but as part of an engine that gets those things into hand, it's quite fun.
Artificer/Poor House. This seems like a killer combo. Discard hand, gain something good, play remaining Poor House for an extra $4.
This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.
I guess Artificer is often strong when you want reduced hand size. Should be really good with Menagerie for example.
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card? I can't think of another.
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card? I can't think of another.
Hamlet? Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card? I can't think of another.
Hamlet? Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.
Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.
Rebuild + Duplicate
In a Rebuild duel, one of the keys is getting more Duchies than your opponent. Rebuilding an Estate into a Duchy, then calling Duplicates to gain additional Duchies, can be a real game changer.
Is Artificer the only non-terminal Discard-for-Benefit card? I can't think of another.
Hamlet? Another card that has pretty good synergy with Menagerie.
Cellar, but it draws so it's not quite as great with Menagerie.
Warehouse and Oasis can work as well, but usually they need at least some support.
Yeah, but the point is with all the extra money you can fill your deck with cards you DO want, specially terminal draw like catacombs. And you could always pathfind them. ;)This has been noted elsewhere, but Alms/Villa. Every turn just alms for a villa before you play anything. You start each turn with +1 action and +1 coin. It gets you villages for free and you can use the coins to buy power $5 terminals.
This might be ok, but as Villa doesn't give +1 card, you don't want a deck full of them.
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.This wouldn't work with peddler unless you didn't play any action cards that turn (because peddler would cost less than $8)
Mission + Baths: $4 for 4VP.Charm really works well with prince because if you play any actions you cannot get province and it is really hard to get more than 1 crown in play and still have 8.
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.
Death Cart + Advance: Pick up lots of fodder to gain expensive actions easily.
Capital+Herbalist: Don't discard your insane 6$.
Capital+Mandarin: Same here. Not quite a combo, because you don't want that many mandarins.
Capital+Mint: Same here, but you'll be a bit sad to trash your 5-cost just to avoid the debt.
Capital+Crown: Get your 6 twice before discarding is really nice.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.
Capital+Counterfeit: Awesome. Get 6 twice, without punishment, which is more than enough compensation for trashing a 5$.
I want to make some snarky comment here about real world finance wheedling money out of nothing and running away from the debt...
Possession - Messenger
Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
Possession - Messenger
Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
I don't think this works.
Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect. Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."
The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained. Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
Possession - Messenger
Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
I don't think this works.
Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect. Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."
The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained. Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
You would still get an extra $4 without giving your opponent(s) one.
Legionary/Masqerade.
Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donateLegionary/Masqerade.
Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.
I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
It's worse because you can't just gain all the curses and play count or forge or buy donateLegionary/Masqerade.
Legionarys attack is already brutal by itself, but you can still keep some village/smithy-stuff to start with. The threat of a subsequent masq makes it very dangerous to do so, and the attack becomes a real pain.
I predict Legionary is going to be almost as infuriating as Torturer when it is activated.
Ambassador/Defiled Shrine or Ambassador/Triumph
Keep the VP tokens, Ambassador the Curse/Estate to your opponent.
Transmogrify/Cultist
If you have a Cultist in hand, you can call Transmogrify for +3 cards.
Encampment/Herbalist: Make sure you always have a Gold/Plunder in hand to reveal.I just played a game with this last night, and it worked well. The downside is that with only 5 Encampments, it becomes less useful if you're contested (of course, unless your opponent is mirroring, you'll likely get those Encampments back eventually). As added synergy, the Encampments leave you with extra actions for Herbalist, and the +buy from Herbalist is useful in picking up cheap Encampments.
Possession - Messenger
Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
I don't think this works.
Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect. Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."
The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained. Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
Possession - Messenger
Possess your opponent, buy Messenger, get 3 cards for the price of 1!
I don't think this works.
Possessed player buys Messenger, triggering its on-buy effect. Messenger says:
"gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it."
The possessed player chooses a card, but never gains it since Possession redirects everything that would be gained. Therefore, there is no "it" for Messenger to copy, so each other player gains nothing.
Well, it works on Making Fun (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160608/log.0.1465415485098.txt) (turn 12 [possessed]).
Windfall + Villa
Play enough cards to draw your deck and have $9 and two buys. Buy Windfall, gain 3 Gold; buy Villa, returning to your Action phase; play some other actions to draw your new Gold.
Royal Carriage / Menagerie
Play your Menagerie. If it would be activated again, call your RC; else, don't.
Treasure Trove + Gardens
Even by itself, this is decent. Open Silver/Silver, get a bunch of treasure troves, then buy gardens while flooding your deck with cards from TT. I haven't tried this with a simulator, but I think it's roughly on par with Gear/BM. If you have the time, it might be worth picking up a province, since 8 gardens with 50+ cards and a province beats 7 provinces (and a duchy). A decent source of +buy (or banquet) would definitely help this, though it might also enable a gardens rush, which would likely beat TT+G as it's fairly important to pick up the treasure troves before the gardens with this.
Mint and a lot of debt cards synerize
You can Mint a Fortune. If only that were actually a useful thing to do.stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things
You can Mint a Fortune. If only that were actually a useful thing to do.stonemason it to gain two provinces or two city squares or some mysterious other pairing of those things
Charm + Groundskeeper
Really good synergy here. +Buy useful for picking up Estates or Duchy in the end game for max points. The other half of Charm lets you gain Groundskeepers for free with other $5 cost engine parts (or Duchy).
Stonemason + Grand Market
With 8 coins, you can circumvent Grand Market's on buy restriction and gain two of them (plus a Stonemason)! At the end of the game you can use your Stonemasons to trash some Grand Markets for Duchies (if appropriate).
Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
I wonder, in a game with Salt the Earth and Tomb, with $8 and 2 buys, if it's better to buy a Province or trash two. I guess that could be a thing for the simulator.Depends if you are ahead or not.
Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
$4 for 2 VP no cards is pretty good actually. I think it's gonna take awhile for people to get how much better buying static amounts of VP without a card attached can be. Obviously you can't always just skip actual Victory cards but VP is good man
Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.
Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +Salt the earth + Tomb
Why bother ever buying cards
Because that's $4 for 2VP, which isn't all that much. :P
Great Hall is $3 for 1VP. And it stinks, usually.
This is a much better deal, though. Not only is the price/VP ratio better, but the main difference is that piling out Great Hall doesn't end the game. If i buy six of these and always trash Province, the Provinces left are worth just as many points. Can i reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice? I think yes.
Of course if you recognize this behaviour, there are ways to deal with it, but they aren't as trivial. Buy "hard" VP except Provinces (which will usually mean Duchies, a measly +1VP and a dead card), use your deck that didn't just buy "Salt the Earth" to buy the Event twice (non-trivial to do), or attack your opponent (keeping them from $4 will be a challenge, but cursing sounds nice). Either way, coping with the headstart of the player who does this immediately looks like it will be a challenge.
Someone should take it to the simulators. I'm still not convinced though.
Can you reach $4 seven times before I reach $8 twice? It's not so clear cut to me, but I actually lean toward no. Suppose you start going at it immediately. You're hitting $4 every 2 turns, so you need 13-14 turns. That's certainly enough time for me to get 2 Provinces, even with pure Big Money. You can buy other cards to improve your rate, but that also usually costs a turn for each card you pick up, and the vast majority of economy cards are geared toward helping you get more total coin on a given turn rather than helping you consistently hit $4, so I don't think you get much help there. (It also violates the part that I was arguing against -- that you don't need to bother ever buying cards.)
But it's even more complicated. What if I build up a little, buy a Province and maybe a Duchy or two while Salting along side you? There are lots of ways this could play out. If there's a trasher on the board, how does that figure into either strategy (with Tomb VP)?
Salt the Earth + Tomb certainly belongs in this thread as a neat interaction, and it's definitely something to watch out for. I only take issue with the idea that you don't need to buy anything else. 2VP isn't all that much so while the Province-piling is a threat, I think the player who builds up a little can take control pretty easily.
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.
{
name: 'PureSalt'
requires: ['Great Hall']
gainPriority: (state, my) ->
if state.supply.Colony?
[
]
else
[
"Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
"Silver"
]
}
{
name: 'RushSmithy'
requires: ['Smithy']
gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
"Province"
"Gold"
"Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
"Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
"Silver"
]
}
Something to think about, what if the opposing player goes for Duchies against the Salt Rush
Buying silvers on 3 greatly inhances the chance of hitting 4 +
So 9 turns is a reasonable estimate.
But that's buying a card, which was deemed unnecessary at the start. ;)
So I tried some super simple simulation via proxy on Dominiate (http://rspeer.github.io/dominiate/play.html) to answer Asper's question: "Can I reach $4 seven times before you reach $8 twice?"
Here's the code for the Salt strategy:Code: [Select]{
name: 'PureSalt'
requires: ['Great Hall']
gainPriority: (state, my) ->
if state.supply.Colony?
[
]
else
[
"Great Hall" if my.coins > 3
"Silver"
]
}
Great Hall is a proxy for Salt the Earth here. It buys StE with 4+ and Silver otherwise. Obviously I can't run this thousands of times to see what wins, but I can run single games a few times and check the game log to see when the 7th Great Hall is purchased.
Results from 10 trials:
10
10
9
10
9
8
10
11
10
11
Mean: 9.8
Mode: 10 (5 times)
It hit a speedy 8 turns once, a slow 11 turns twice.
Now here's a naive Smithy bot that rushes Provinces.Code: [Select]{
name: 'RushSmithy'
requires: ['Smithy']
gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
"Province"
"Gold"
"Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 2 \
and my.numCardsInDeck() >= 16
"Smithy" if my.countInDeck("Smithy") < 1
"Silver"
]
}
When does it buy the second Province? 10 trials:
10
13
8
11
8
8
10
10
8
8
Mean: 9.4
Mode: 8 (5 times)
It hit a speedy 8 turns a whopping 5 times, but a slow 11 turns once and an abysmal 13 turns once.
It's close, but it looks to me like going for Provinces has an edge here. Pure Salt is more consistent while the rush can be pretty blistering to 2 Provinces. However, these are both naive approaches, and I'd guess that the rush has overall more control and flexibility which will give it the edge when played responsively. OTOH, buying the 2nd Province vs. the 6 StE buys is only achieving an equal score, so that's a point in Salt's favour.
There's lots of strategic wiggle room here for optimization though -- the rush might be using something worse than Smithy, both parties could be buying/trashing Duchy, the Province rush could potentially make use of Salt the Earth as well.
But I think my argument stands. You shouldn't neglect buying cards even if you intend to Salt all the way down. You should certainly take Silver at least, and you will probably be better served by buying at least a few other things as well.
Edit: I also just noticed the second Smithy rule in the rush bot that is unlikely to be optimal. I just edited down the SmithyBM bot and didn't give it much thought, but I'm guessing that getting the second Smithy earlier or not at all may be better (with the current rule, it's probably a waste of time when it happens).
This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....
The problem is that after a few provinces the bm player can just salt mill provinces(kinda like a rebuild player)This is really interesting, how do you play StE properly? Looks to me that a BM game could use it to accelerate the endgame if they were winning. I want to see a head to head smithyBM game where one buys StE over Duchy and trashes a Province if it'll put it in the lead. Geronimoo's simlulator has the Empires cards up right? Shame i'm at work.....
Any strategy can use StE to accelerate the end game. An engine can probably use it better by generating plenty of coin and buys to Salt multiple times, though BM strategies can probably use it sooner to exert pressure. Tomb isn't needed for this.
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon
Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon
Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.
Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.
Quarry + Distant Lands + Summon
Want a free +4 VP without having to buy and play Distant Lands? Simply have a Quarry (or any cost reductor) in play and gain Distant Lands through Summon! I did this in a game, and while I lost so badly (I didn't connect Tournament with Province until all the Prizes were gone), doing this helped me stay in the game somewhat instead of it being a total blow-out.
Technically you still have to play Distant Lands. Matters if the game ends before the start of your next turn.
Well, yes. Who is going to buy Distant Lands with an immanent ending?
Also: Mission/Baths.
Also: Mission/Baths.
Keep in mind that Baths only works if you didn't gain a card on your turn, which negates most other Mission tricks.
Messenger + Split Piles
Kind of minor, but if you grab the last card off the top of a split pile with Messenger's on-buy, nobody else gets one!
With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.
With a Poor House in hand, you're guaranteed to be able to buy a Villa and buy at least one more Poor House after playing the Villa.
Guarantees are just asking for edge cases!
- Your hand is Poor House + 4 HoP. No Villa for you!
- Your hand is Poor House + at least one Contraband. Village or Poor House could be off the table.
3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible. Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn. Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.
3. Rats + Seaway + Tomb: Seaway rats and get as many of them as possible. Every turn, buy n coppers/curses/ruins, where n is the number of rats you have, and then get n points when you trash them next turn. Okay, maybe you don't get perfect shuffle luck, but you should still get close to n points a turn.
Every time you trash, your handsize reduces by one, so you can really only get ~5 points per turn without additional support. Needs Rats + Fortress + Tomb to gain a point for each Rats.
Walled Village and Reserve cards
Play Walled Village and a couple Duplicates or something. Keep your Walled Village for next turn.
Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!What's CR? Council Room?
Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
Opponent's relying on ironmongers as villages? CR his entire deck for him so he's stuck villageless!What's CR? Council Room?
Who knew even CR's 'drawback' was an attack.
Are they saying it is a combo because you could open with Silver/Silver/Donate on Turn 1 if you have at least 4?, or I guess you could even get a 3rd on Turn 2 and then Donate.
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki. I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything. Thoughts? Should I delete the article?
Treasury/Dominate? The only way to buy that juicy 15VP is to rack up a lot of coin each turn, and yet you're not technically buying a Victory card, so you never have to discard your Treasuries.
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki. I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything. Thoughts? Should I delete the article?
How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.
Someone just added Donate/Delve as a combo on the wiki. I don't see how this is any more powerful than any other Donate strategy, and honestly think Donate/Market Square is a combo, if anything. Thoughts? Should I delete the article?
How about a Feodum/Donate opening? Lets you pay off Donate in Turn 3.
Or how about a Feodum/Feodum opening and Donate on your next turn? You can pay off debt and have spending money left over.
Borrow + Overlord
Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn. In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn.
Borrow + Overlord
Not so much a combo as a tactic to watch out for, but if your goal is to get overlords as fast as possible early game, you'll often want to borrow with 1 debt in order to get another overlord instead of waiting for the next turn. In particular, you'll be able to get two overlords before your first reshuffle if you borrow on your second turn.
You can't buy events when you have Debt, which includes even a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png) event like Borrow.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ranger / Lost Arts. The +5 makes it really easy to spike $6. (Inherit the Rangers, fugetaboutit!)
Possess your opponent who has Champion in play, then buy Bonfire, trashing the Champion (it's set-aside, and the opponent now has to wait another shuffle to get it back into play).
Bridge Troll wouldn't be useful because it would be discarded at the end of the Possessed turn anyways, unless you played it yourself in that turn. Discarding Archivist might be interesting since it works for up to 3 turns.
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing? Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn. I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
The royal carriage doesn't give an action when you call it.
More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing? Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn. I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing? Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn. I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
This is the important part. If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much. If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Doing this spends a buy on Mission to get a buy from Tactician, so it doesn't actually increase your number of buys.More a question than an observation: Is Tactician / Mission a thing? Play your Treasures on your normal turn, play Tactician on your Mission turn. I've never actually seen it done, but seems like it could theoretically work out.
If you can set aside a Tactician with Gear or a Courtyard somehow, it could work.
This is the important part. If you can find your Tactician reliably on your Mission Turn without seeding it into your hand, then you probably don't need it that much. If it is the only +Buy, it could still be worth doing though.
Chapel, Fishing Village, Caravan, Cutpurse, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Market, Outpost, Witch, Adventurer
Nobles/Royal Carriage
Royal Carriage can smooth out annoying hands where Nobles is your only action. Play Nobles for actions, call RC and play Nobles for draw.
I really don't see TM or Adventurer here. It must be noted that you played Lord Bottington, so naturally your strategy dominated his, but I think that after trashing you can build around FV, witch for draw, TR, Market and maybe 2 gold. You should be able to draw your deck reliably, so no need for Adventurer, and instead of buying to TR and waiting for a reshuffle to get the TR's played, you can just get a couple of gold directly. I haven't played it out, but I think it is faster.
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
Yes, why?
For instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.
QuoteFor instance, Cartographer/Harvest would go in uh September.
Actually, I think Cartographer/Harvest would go in Hellfreezovember. Or maybe Notgonnahappenuary.
Just wonderingI wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?Do you live in a place with four distinct seasons, like Michigan?
Yes, why?
I wanted to make a Dominion calendar for my Dad (who is also a Dominion fan) where for each day of the year there is one combo/Interaction. I will take some from here (of course crediting the author of said interaction), but I was wondering how to organize it, any ideas?Well there's the main set, 10 expansions, and promos, that's 12 categories. Obv. a combo between two cards from different expansions gives you two choices. Promos isn't much; you could instead do Events/Landmarks for the last month.
3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.
Quote3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.
I'm trying to work out the math on this one.
You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.
That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.
The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!
It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.Quote3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.
I'm trying to work out the math on this one.
You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.
That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.
The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!
I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9. I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful. I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
Right, I probably wouldn't play this with a real engine on the board. (unless there's also groundskeeper or something)It's a good way to kick of reliably but gear kind of does that anyway.Quote3 crossroads and 4 gears is enough to draw a deck of 21 cards.
I'm trying to work out the math on this one.
You start with a hand of Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards (8). Crossroads, draw three, + 3 actions (11). Assume you have another Crossroads, Draw three, 2 actions left (14). Gear, draw 2, stash 2. Gear, draw 2 stash 2 (18). You've now stashed Crossroads/3 Estates for your next turn so that your next turn can be identical, but you've only drawn a total of 18 cards. If you play that third Crossroads to draw to 21 cards, you've broken the chain.
That said, your starting 10 + 3 Crossroads and 4 Gears is 17 cards. You can buy just one treasure (even copper!) along the way, and you should be able to buy a Province a turn, which will never clog because Crossroads will replace any purchased Provinces with other cards.
The question is whether that's faster than Gear BM. Could make an interesting simulation. My guess is that you want a +buy somewhere, because spending three turns overpaying for Crossroads and probably overpaying once or twice for Gears seems like a waste. The +buy better be non-terminal or treasure, though!
I was also counting the two gears in play from the previous turn, and Crossroads + 3 Estates + 5 other cards = 9. I feel like this probably doesn't beat Gear BM without nonterminal +Buy or anything else useful. I'd be interested to see how they compare with say market square on the board.
Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper
Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.
The game I played had Altar which was nice with this too.Hunting Grounds/Groundskeeper
Trash Hunting Grounds with a bunch of Groundskeepers in play for 3 Estates and you'll get tons of points. I managed to outscore Dominate with this so it seems like it can be really strong.
Add Stonemason for extra fun! Use $7 buys to empty the Groundskeeper pile, then get all your Groundskeeper in play and trash Hunting Grounds for 3 Estates and 2 Duchy!
I'm a big fan of Pathfinding + Festival.
This turns all your Festivals into "Grand Market Villages" that only cost 5 with no copper restriction!
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards
I've always thought that Pathfinding and Lost Arts work even better on cheaper cards (provided you have +Buy), like Pathfind a Forager to a Grand Market Junk Dealer, or Lost Arts a Moat to a Lab.
Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.
Pathfinding rocks
Pathfinding rocks
I'm not convinced this is all that good. Usually you can't play more than 5 rocks a turn, and drawing cards in your buy phase is not nearly as good as drawing cards in your action phase. Even with something like villa, this really only makes rocks a peddler variant.
Magpie and any card that allows you to discard or top deck from your hand.
Related: Watchtower can let you gain all the Magpie's without drawing your deck under the right circumstances. 2 Magpies in hand + Watchtower in hand. Play Magpie, revealing any Action/Victory card. Use Watchtower to place the gained Magpie on top of your deck; play another Magpie from your hand, drawing Magpie, revealing Magpie to gain a Magpie, etc. You don't draw the first Action/Victory card you revealed until you drain the Magpie pile (thanks Chris!).
Apprentice/Peddler
+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.
Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.
Apprentice/Peddler
+8 cards +1 action is a recipe for success. All it takes is some cheap cantrips. I just played with Pawn, which was great.
Maybe this has been mentioned before. This thread should have some way to see all the interactions.
Yes, that is a good interaction. Also, Salvager/Peddler, and any card that uses the high cost of Peddler for benefit.
The only exception might be Trader - you probably don't want 8 Silvers if you're playing a deck with lots of Peddlers (likely an engine).
Oh, crap. Wait a minute. Is there Eratta for that issue? I'm going to need to check under the rules section about Encampment/Plunder...
Wine Merchant - Wine MerchantIn bm this is decent because you can get them off your mat once per shuffle and have a bunch of 5 dollar terminal 4 coin
When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy. If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds. The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
Wine Merchant - Wine Merchant
When you only play 1 Wine Merchant but don't spend $2 of the $4, it's like a terminal Silver with a +buy. If you play 2 WMs and don't spend $2, it's like they were both terminal Golds. The more WMs in play, the better because the more near they are to being the $4.
You can't re-buy Encampments or inherited Estates the same turn you have to set them aside.
Inheriting Encampment gives you a whole Estate pile to work with though.
Plan + Market Square
On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
Plan + Market Square
On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.
Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool
Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.
Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune
Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.
Plan + Market Square
On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Save adds to your normal hand, you'll have a 5 card hand + Moat. It's just the opportunity cost of whatever other thing you might have Saved / bought.
Right, right, forgot that. Was thinking topdecking for some reason.
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Diplomat / Courtier
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's weekQuoteDiplomat / Courtier
Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
QuoteDiplomat / Courtier
Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's weekQuoteDiplomat / Courtier
Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
Diplomat is really good with attacks. It's courtier that's weekQuoteDiplomat / Courtier
Cute. I keep wanting Diplomat to be good, and it keeps not being. I watched several players buy one in a kingdom with no attacks and not a single handsize-reducing action because it was the only card that had +2 Actions printed on it. Oops. Nice $4 Moats there, guys.
I am starting to disagree on your viewing of Courtier. I think it is a stronger card than you are giving it credit for. It's going up on my list. It is no world beater, but it's way better than Explorer for starters.
Journeyman/Save
I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.
Journeyman/Save
I have a low opinion of Save, but turning Coppers and estates into Silvers really helps Journeyman. My opponent went for Sea Hag, but I still won.
Huh? Are you referring to "Trade" rather than "Save"?
Save / Moat
If you can afford it, put a Moat on top of your deck every turn, to never get affected by an attack.
And play with a 4-card hand for the rest of the game.
Hey, you want to be attack-proof or not?
Diplomat / Courtier
Play Courtier, reveal Diplomat, and take +1 Action and Gold/+$3/+Buy. Then a play Diplomat, and it becomes a Lost City. You can build (lame) engines using this combination.
I have a low opinion of TradeYou really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.
I have a low opinion of TradeYou really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.
i think you're missing a few stepsI have a low opinion of TradeYou really shouldn't. Trade is pretty good pretty often.
That's how slavery started.
Shouldn't even gen be slightly surprising, but with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.
with modest Village support, Courtyard and Chariot Race basically guarantee VP and Coin when played together.
lurker / possessionThat took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.
jeez
lurker / possessionThat took me a while to work out, but wow, yes. No longer do you need to gain a Potion, or do crazy tricks trashing a Squire for a Scrying Pool then Remodelling up through Golem, to get one of the most annoying cards in the game.
jeez
I don't know if it's been mentioned somewhere yet, but Banquet/Counting House appears to be pretty good.
Open double Banquet for Counting Houses, buy Counting House on $5+ except on the first hand of a shuffle where you want to buy banquet for sure. On <5$ just get another Banquet/Counting House and on 8$ you get Provinces. Maybe not on turn 4, but definitely afterwards. Duchies early.
This is very unoptimized, but according to very rough simulator results this beats a lot of money strategies. It appears to be quite fast and is pretty resilient to lots of attacks.
What doesn't lurker combo with?Feodum.
you can gain chapel with lurker and trash the feodum with chapel boom combo!Then you have 3 silvers junking up your deck #Curse>Silver
Well you have a chapel so you can get rid of the silvers.Or you could of bought the chapel instead of the Lurker...
Plan + Market Square
On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.
Well, there is a grain of usefulness there: Market Square basically "combos" with any self-trasher (as opposed to what beginners might assume was primarily a "reaction" to a trashing attack.) The only trouble with using Market Square with most trashers is getting them to match up in the same hand, whereas Plan doesn't have that problem, because you can always buy Plan when Market square is in your hand.
To a certain degree, a great many of the suggestions in this thread really represent basic synergies, and almost all of them have multiple possible replacements for one or more of the cards.
In a way, this observation simply belongs in the Market Square wiki article: It's a card that like self-trashers, some self-trashers are events such as Plan and Trade, eliminating the need for matching. If you're using it with a trashing action, refer to the article on...um...matchers? Is Dominion missing a term?
Is there a list of cards/strategies somewhere that can effectively get cards to meet up in the same hand without shuffle luck? I'm thinking this needs a separate thread. I'll go make one now.
Something old:
Hermit + Mint
Hermit trashes Estates, gains non-Copper economy (Silver at the very least), and turns into a Madman. The Madman helps you get most of your Coppers in play for a Mint buy. Get thin fast! If Minting Silver is decent, there is is further synergy. If Mint is a bad card, Hermit can trash it.
... and something new:
Menagerie + Mill
Mill is a great Menagerie enabler as a non-terminal discard for benefit card. If you start with both in hand, Mill is almost guaranteed to be able to discard into a hand of Menagerie + two uniques. After playing both actions, you have a 5-card hand, but you've sifted two bad cards and are up two coins. Rinse and repeat as needed.
Vault + Scrying Pool
Draw your deck with scrying pool and a couple villages, then play a vault and discard all your action cards for coin and use a scrying pool to draw them all back. It needs villages, +buy, and maybe some trashing to really work optimally, but can be a huge source of payload when it works. The fact that you can discard specifically your actions for coin to guarantee that you can draw them back with scrying pool and repeat several times makes it more than just the "vault likes big hands, scrying pool likes payload actions" generic synergy.
Villa + Watchtower
Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.
Villa + Watchtower
Let's you play a bunch of treasures, use $4 for the Villa, and continue to draw your deck.
Note all of this is theory from a novice player
Villa + 'Draw-to-X'
Seems like there might be some pretty strong synergy between Villa and all the 'draw-to-X' cards. Obviously disappearing villages and 'draw-to-X' go well together, but Villa also lets you empty treasures out of your hand without your turn truly ending. In addition each 'draw-to-X' card has some individual synergy as well.
Villa + Watchtower
If you can get enough coins with a Watchtower in your hand, you can buy a Villa and another card, and then play all 3.
Villa + Library
Play Library -> draw a hand with treasures and a single Library, discarding other actions -> Buy Villa -> Play Villa + Library and draw through your treasure-thinned deck
Would work especially well with Estate trashing
Villa + Jack of all Trades
Buy Villa to get all the treasures out of your hand. Play Villa + Jack. Repeat if you draw another Jack. Villa + Jack can handle extra treasures as long as there are Villas available. Being able to draw through so many cards and play early Jacks makes this strong for Estate trashing as well, which is good because Villa + Draw-to-X is hurt badly by victory cards.
Artisan and MysticYou would have to have a spare action for this, therefore Cartographer instead of Artisan may be handier sometimes (though the point of Artisan is that you can specifically gain the card it comboes with.
Gain Mystic in hand and guarantee the draw.
Artisan and VentureThis, on the other hand, looks like a great use for a terminal action like Artisan.
Gain Venture in hand, topdeck green, skip it with Venture.
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.
I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
All the combos? Sure. All the card interactions people have posted? No.
I don't get it. What do you mean by not all the card interactions.
I mean that most of these aren't combos. Hell, it's already pretty good by the standards of this thread if a given interaction is anywhere near "potentially useful" in practice.
oh hey look it's Awaclus being pedantic about the extremely specific meaning he gives a word that isn't universally used by everyone else in the same way again I'm sure this will be another wonderful thread where everyone walks away happy and more intelligent as a result
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.
No one forces you to read the thread.
Would anybody like to see a complete list of all the combos here without having to sift through all the comments?
Be the change you want to see in the world
"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" was the name of this thread specifically to not use the word combo.
And also to make the thread intended only for card interactions that are potentially useful. However, a lot of people seem to forget about that when they're posting interactions.
No one forces you to read the thread.
I want to see some sort of Herald + Vassal + Golem deck (plus Steward or something to help you trash down). At some point, your entire deck just plays itself.
Reggie, Vassal gives +$2, right? So that's something. With teacher, this deck could be insane. :D Put in a few soldiers for attack and you are good to go. :p
Cache + Fountain
It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy. Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold". Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.
If you don't trash any Coppers, you can satisfy Fountain in a single $3 buy if the <$5 card you choose to gain with Banquet is a third Copper, which means that even if you don't have a lot of buys, you can still wait to buy the additional Coppers late in the game.Cache + Fountain
It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy. Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold". Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.
Banquet + Fountain
For basically the same reasons.
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains
While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity. Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem. I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies.
Not a great way to make friends.
Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains
While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity. Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem. I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies.
Not a great way to make friends.
Banquet gains only Action Cards =( We can keep our friends!
Based on a game I just had:
Minion + Soldier
Soldier gives lots of money if you play lots of attack cards. Minion is an attack card. Discard a lot with minions to find your Soldier, then play it for loads of money. It's pretty easy to hit province with this. Get more than one soldier to up the odds of getting a soldier at the right time.
Scrying Pool as well.
Lurker + Cultist
Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)
Lurker + Fortress
Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.
Lurker + Cultist
Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)
Lurker + Fortress
Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.
On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.
Salt the Earth + Nobles/Mill/Distant Lands + LurkerThis doesn't really work; you'll only end up putting stuff in the trash for your opponent to gain.
Lurker + Cultist
Trash a Cultist, draw 3 cards (= 2 Lab plays)
Lurker + Fortress
Trash a Fortress, put it into your hand and play it.
On the same theme, Catacombs turns Lurker into a non-terminal Workshop at a 33% discount.
Beggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens
oh, I meant banquet not gardens. derpBeggar, Tower
Beggar, Tower, Gardens
So from the discussion in Discord (and their test games), is sounds like Beggar-Tower is a legit counter to most BM strategies, but it gets wrecked by any engine. It turns out that having 40 0-point coppers kinda sucks when the engine 3-piles other stuff.
And it sounds like Beggar-Tower actually beats Beggar-Tower-Gardens. The Gardens just can't make up for losing the Copper split (lol..."losing the Copper split").
Beggar-Tower-Inn seems pretty powerful. Maybe even enough to beat a weaker engine? You get to shuffle in a bunch of Beggars, and then you can actually play multiples of them per turn.
you can Mint Crowns!
And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!you can Mint Crowns!
And you can Crown Mints!
All because you played Storyteller!And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!you can Mint Crowns!
And you can Crown Mints!
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.
It also requires three unique components.
I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).
I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).
Why do you even need 4 Golds if you're already making 10 money?
Maybe on Colony boards that would be nice...
Just had this in a game:
Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer
Just had this in a game:
Palace + Masterpiece + Soothsayer
Have you noticed that it has three unique components?
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit? It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit? It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.
But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.
Have you noticed that no one gives a shit? It's a neat interaction, whether or not it's likely to come up very often.
But it isn't potentially useful. Out of principle, I wouldn't really like to have Adam's thread derailed even though he doesn't post on f.ds anymore.
You're the person derailing it, not everybody who mentions a three card combo. You're the one who feels compelled to start this discussion every fucking time it comes up.
Of course three-card interactions are potentialyl useful, the potential is just lower
Or you can Crown a Crown to play a Horn of Plenty twice, gaining Villa, returning to your Action phase, then Crowning the Mint. At which point we're far outside the potentially useful interactions, and rapidly heading for the border of "neat" as well.And you can Crown Mint to Mint 2 Crowns!you can Mint Crowns!
And you can Crown Mints!
Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.
I'm pretty sure it does, it's just that you happen to gain it in the new Action phase.Crowning a crown on HoP to gain Villa sounds beautiful.
Does the HoP get to gain a 2nd card?
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.
Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.
Awaclus, the probability of a combo appearing says nothing about how useful it is if it does. You could argue that for combos that actually require three cards to be lined up, it will often not be worth the effort (not considering cases where the third card's purpose IS to line up the other two). But that argument does not apply if one is a Landmark.
Yes, but that's only if it ever appears, which it won't. This is supposed to be a thread for the kind of stuff that people should actually memorize and check whether or not it's there at the start of every game. A more appropriate thread for sharing an interesting 3-piece interaction that just came up would be the Best Dominion Moments thread because that's exactly what it is: a moment. A moment that is now in the past and will never happen again.
So, how exactly are you entitled to define what this thread is about?
Edit: It appears AdamH upvoted you, so, uh, I guess this IS the definition? Bummer. Do I need to create a "fun card interactions that need not necessary be probable to come up" thread, now?
One day, long ago I had a dream. This dream was that there would be a thread full of little combos that people could read through and add to their mental checklists so their game might improve.
Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off.
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.
It also requires three unique components.
I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).
Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.
Too bad the combo isn't potentially useful any more if you add another card to it.
It is potentially useful, because you don't have to add another card to it. But there are going to be 8 other kingdom cards and sometimes Events or Landmarks in addition to the combo though, and since it's probably the best strategy on the board every time, it's good to know which cards could be relevant and which cards couldn't.
Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.
Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?
Sorry guys; we had it all wrong! It turns out the objective standard for an interaction being posted on this thread is if Awaclus likes enough to ignore a rule he decides to rigidly enforce on every combo he doesn't like.
Aren't we all having fun this way? Isn't FDS a better place because of this?
Did you even read the post you were replying to?
Interaction that requires 2 cards -> potentially useful
Interaction that requires 3 cards -> not potentially useful
Lurker/Hunting Grounds is the former.
You've yelled the same criticisms at interactions that worked with only two of the mentioned cards as soon as people start discussing more than two of them.
Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.
Any talk of synergies to improve Lurker + Hunting Grounds that is more than a line or two definitely doesn't belong in this thread though, going by the "potentially useful" condition. A separate topic could be made for that.On the other hand, it is no problem if a thread about card interactions contains more posts about the definition of "neat and potentially useful" than actual discussion of card interactions, and there is no need to separate that in a different thread.
Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!
Potentially useful card interaction:
Moat / Witch - You can block Witch with a Moat!
Can someone put together an article for this one? It sounds really potentially useful.
Guys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.
Yeah but that would NEVER happen. Jeez why are you even talking about this. ;DGuys, I just noticed the OP specifically asks for interactions between two cards. I'm sorry, but this means you need to stop posting those Event- and Landmark combos.
Ace of Spades-Ace of Hearts is an awesome Texas Hold'Em hand.
Ferry/Cultist is horrifying
Ferry/Cultist is horrifying
And then you can Seaway it!
(please don't argue about me adding a third card)
Trader in hand turns Traveling Fair into a Delve whose Silver you can topdeck.
when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.
Treasure Map, Lurker, Watchtower
For this one it's easier to keep one map in the trash (from lurker maybe), then when the time is right, fish it out and topeck it! What's even better is, when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.
when you collide the maps, you can use watchtower to topdeck the golds.
Not sure if trolling...
Storyteller, Diadem, Storeroom, Travelling Fair
Turn coin into draw, or draw into coin, then actions into coin, or actions into coin while you turn coin into draw turning actions into even more draw, then in the end turn all the draw back into coin? Or turn the draw into coin first then back into draw, effectively cellaring TWICE? (cwazy!) Then, in the end, turn all that coin into buy, letting you buy all the copper (which, if you look carefully, is just another way of turning draw into coin, but nonterminally - wow!) you want!
A parody is only as good as it is accurate, you know. I fail to see what or whom you'r making fun of here.There coulndn't be any making fun. The license for making fun had expired
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers
I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.
The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"
Keep and ...
Masterpiece with some drawers
Trader trashing a Province
Treasure Hunter, while your right player building an engine
Raid with some drawers (with +Buy is best)
Feodum with some trashers
I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.
The combos that I really like with Keep are any time there's only one copy (or really limited numbers) of a treasure. Black Market being the big example. "Sure I'll buy a Venture that's also worth 5 points!"
I wonder how it affects the Tournament choice. Would you ever consider Diadem as a first prize because of Keep? I'm guessing no, but it might become second after Followers (if there was no other cursing).
I don't know...most of those sound like nombos. Keep is only worth 5 points per pile, so winning big on the Silvers, for example, can give you some bonus points, but the person that ignores the Silver points will just win with extra Provinces and a couple of Golds.
Patrol/Venture
If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.
Patrol/Venture
If you're playing BM, Patrol lets you set up just the right treasures for your Ventures to hit.
That's neat but what ratio of Patrols-to-Ventures do you want, and what order to buy them, etc.?
You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.
Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
I've been playing around with this lately. It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP). It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.
Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.Gear/Plan
Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.
I've been playing around with this lately. It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP). It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.
Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.
I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.
I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)
The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile. When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile. Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck. Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat. This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies). But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:
Governor/Mountain Pass
A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.
Procession + DuplicateGot demolished by that recently
Rebuild/Castles
It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
Rebuild/CastlesAnd, gain the on-trash bonus of Crumbling!
It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:
Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.
Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.
Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.
So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.
Chapel is arguably better than Scheme.
So what's the best bane?
Uh... hmm...So what's the best bane?Define "best"
Incidentally, if a Dominion Set, promo, reprint of Cornucopia, etc. ever has a card to spare and an artist with time on their hands, it would be nice to have a "Bane" card you can tuck under the supply pile.Work is underway on the eventual prettier reprint of Guilds/Cornucopia, and we are planning on including a Bane card.
Baths + Debt
It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.
The obvious thing is, we could have tried changing "gained" to "bought."Baths + Debt
It's more okay to buy high-Debt cards early if Baths is in the game, because you can get 2 VP on the turn you're paying off the debt. I recently lost a game because I bid too low on Mountain Pass, thinking that it was worth 8 VP. With Baths in the game, it was actually worth 10 VP.
Now the real question is, if Empires hadn't had the debt mechanic, would Baths have survived playtesting? Or would it just be too niche?
Rats can function as a way to discard junk from your hand for Lookout, Sentry or other purposes.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but gaining Sir Martin with Messenger is nice.I think somebody mentioned Messenger with Castles. Different pile, same idea.
Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.
Stonemason / Sacrifice. Just load up on both. Especially in the lack of other villages.
How does that work? By itself it doesn't seem that great, without other +Actions I can see it being important.
Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.
Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.
Nice.
Related question: does Enchantress effectively turn Bridge Troll into a Highway?
Highway is a great counter to Enchantress.
If you do have a Watchtower in hand, Rats become a Lab that trashes a card (but they can't trash the second card drawn.)
Haunted Woods counters Nights.
Haunted Woods counters Nights.
Makes sense. If the woods are haunted, it's too scary to do anything at night.
Has anyone tried Inheriting Shepherd? I haven't but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.
Cute trick when you have limited terminal space: Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action. Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases). Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.
Cute trick when you have limited terminal space: Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action. Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases). Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.
Both Summon and Island are compulsory, right? So there's a (probably small) chance you could be forced to set aside something you'd prefer not to.
Cute trick when you have limited terminal space: Summon an Island then you get to set aside a card your next turn without consuming an action. Really lowers the opportunity cost for playing the island (though not the opportunity cost for buying it, which increases). Not good if there are power 5's you want instead of course.
Both Summon and Island are compulsory, right? So there's a (probably small) chance you could be forced to set aside something you'd prefer not to.
Of course, just like there is a chance that your Lookout will be forced to trash something you want to keep.
Masterpiece/Tower
Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.
Masterpiece/Tower
Ridiculous if you're the only one going for it.
I was going to come post this one, I'm glad I searched.
37 points of Silver in this game was just brutal. Game #8462065
Tower/Silver Flood
The Silver pile is big, easy to empty, and emptying it will leave you with a pretty good deck to get some Provinces and stuff.
Groundskeeper + Wild Hunt
Play the former first, which is natural since it's the non-terminal.
Then play a Wild Hunt to gain an Estate, triggering VP gain from Groundskeeper. All the better if you have multiple of them in play, and bonus if you get the VP tokens on the Wild Hunt pile as well!
Shepherd/Cobbler
Sheperd can create really fun decks that draw a bunch but really lack reliability, if you have a Shepherd in hand your Cobbler can gain a Estate for 2 points and +2 cards that turn, if not you can gain a Shepherd for and use it in a hand that´s likely full of green cards.
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but Shanty Town + Big Money is a cute little engine
EDIT: When there's no better alternative available
Masterpiece / AnnexTriumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Masterpiece / AnnexTriumph, that is. Doing stuff is just not what Annex does.
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Play Rats, gain Rats, exchange it for a Changeling.
Mint - Changeling
Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint
Bureaucrat can really screw over Shepard sometimes. Also it's fun getting Changelings instead of a Silver.I'd still buy Militia over Bureaucrat with Shepard in play. Shepard + 2 Victory cards can turn the Militia attack into a Minion's clout, which isn't necessarily gentler. Not sure about Changeling, it's effect seems a bit weaker than Smugglers, but on boards with Shepard and Changeling I would try Bureaucrat over Militia.
Mint - Changeling
Because sometimes you don't actually want the Mint
Masterpiece / Annex
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
Masterpiece / Annex
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
would someone explain this to me?
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
Capital / Crypt
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17633.0) potential, but maybe could be good?
Governor / ChangelingSpeaking of Changeling interactions, Changeling / Masterpiece is probably the most potent one.
Gain Changelings which become more Governors from Governor's Gold/Silver. Trash Estates into $3s which become Changelings which become more Governors. Turn your opponent's given Silver into Changelings which become Golds which become Provinces.
Capital / CryptHmm. I can envisage peculiar kingdoms in which it made sense, but most of the time wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+2*Crypt?
I'm not sure how realistic it is but imagine a deck that has x Capitals and 2x Crypts, where each turn you use x of the Crypts to each set aside 1 of the Capitals .. something like that. Would be neat. Doubt it has Mandarin/Capitol (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17633.0) potential, but maybe could be good?
wouldn't it be simpler to buy 2*Gold than Capital+1*Crypt?
Actually, it's Capital + 2*Crypt
And does Bureaucrat gain the Changeling to the top of your deck?
Hireling/Changeling
This is a rhyming duo. Changeling can always turn into a Hireling that you have already played. If you have a Silver gainer or Magpie or something to gain more Changelings, you can really start exploding.
Thief/Heirlooms
Thief is way more fun when you can steal Magic Lamps, Pastures, Goats, etc. Just be careful about trashing your opponent's Haunted Mirror.
I think the only change to Pasture was that once it cost $4. Some of the Heirlooms dropped below $3 to dodge War and some Knight-family attacks.
I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
Lucky Coin also costs $4.
I think it's cool that heirlooms are really hard to steal and impossible to recover once they've been trashed. Cursed Gold is the only one that can return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
Lucky Coin also costs $4.
Yeah, it can also return from the grave to bring misfortune to someone new.
Masterpiece / Annex
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
would someone explain this to me?
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
Masterpiece / Annex
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
would someone explain this to me?
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.
Masterpiece / Annex
A weak card and a weak event combine for some serious points as long as you have two buys. One point per coin (plus a little bit of debt) is incredible value in a province game, and you never need more than two buys.
would someone explain this to me?
why are you filling your deck with silver, and what cards are you shuffling into your deck and why?
I absolutely meant Triumph, not Annex. Sorry for the confusion.
Triumph is not a weak event though, it's one of the strongest card-shaped things in the game.
Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.Almost enough to bring back Scout ;)
Kinda obvious but Patrol is really nice in Shepherd games - the Pasture makes Patrol's scout part a bit better and Shepherd discards victories so your Patrols can suck them back up.Almost enough to bring back Scout ;)
Shepherd/Summon is just stupidly good on a 5/2 opening.
Plan + Market Square
On weak BM boards this can be a strategy in and of itself. Just open Plan / MS and trash Estates and Coppers, gaining roughly one Gold at a time this way. Sometimes you'll get two! You should then be ready to green. Obviously this isn't that strong but it can work out OK if you're otherwise bored.
That puts the "potentially" into "potentially useful" for sure.
Secret Passage + Herald/Wishing Well/Mystic/Vassal/Masquerade/Patrol/Scrying Pool
Put a Copper in your next hand for Mask protection, or an Action card for Herald/Vassal/Wishing Well/Mystic. Tuck away a Curse/Victory for Patrol pick up on dispatch.
Harbinger + Prizes/Fortune
Never stop playing Steed, Followers or Princess. Or maybe a Fortune instead.
Secret Passage also works with Vagrant, Cartographer, Sentry, Lookout, Doctor...
highway + university.did you mean bridge + university?
highway + university.did you mean bridge + university?
I'm confused as to why you are specifically calling out the highway.
Actually, I would go as far as to say Highway + University is NOT a helpful combination.
University is expensive and difficult to buy because of the potion cost. It ALREADY gains $5-cost cards, so the cost reduction given to you by Highway doesn't help you gain more Highways, so you're very likely going to be over-investing to get them, and neither card gives you the + buy so desperately needed when there's a cost-reducer in the kingdom. And University only gains actions, so you can't even use it to gain Provinces after playing three Highways!! (Could get a cheap Prince or Artisan or something, though.)
Highway/University is definitely not a thing. In a full-blown engine, with trashing, a good draw card, and a source of +buy, there is some possibility that you might play one or maybe two Universities in a megaturn engine featuring Highway, but the two cards don't interact in any meaningful way. If anything, they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread.
As a general rule, though, just make a mental note of [any cost reducer + any gainer] is usually a good thing. Not really an interesting card interaction; just how the game works.
I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.
I mean, sure, but like, University combos with Highway no better than it does with, say, Treasury.
Sometimes there are actions that cost $6+ on the board so that isn't always true. More importantly though Treasury is a really nice card with University and Highway is no worse. I don't think University/Highway is an amazing combo or anything (unless Kings Court or something is on the board). I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.
"village + storeroom + village + library" just got simplified to Cursed Village + Storeroom
Have you ever thought: "you know what would make dominion better? shuffling 3-4 times per turn."?
Apparently the storerooms in cursed villages have something different in them every you enter them, so you want to do it all the time.
Highway / Thing That Can Gain Highway is a useful interaction; it doesn’t only become useful if you need highway in play for the gainer to work? It’s not particularly, uh, out of the ordinary but it is Something
I was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.
QuoteI was mainly disagreeing with JThorne saying that they almost belong in the "annoying and potentially harmful" thread, which obviously isn't true.
I'm not so sure. Here's the big question: If the kingdom has a good source of +buy, isn't is possible that Silver/Highway/+buy would get more Highways faster than investing in the potion and the University? There's a good chance that the early hands where you draw potion can't afford a Highway, and the early hands where you draw University will gain a Highway, but not buy one. If going the University route causes you to lose the Highway split, then it's definitely harmful.
But in any case, University + any spammable $5 cost, while sometimes useful, isn't exactly a "neat" interaction. It would be like posting Tunnel + Warehouse in this thread. That's not interesting, it's just what Tunnel does. Most of the stuff here is interactions that don't appear in the wiki and are usually one specific card with another specific card doing something interesting together that most players don't see on first glance.
I'm not trying to be a pain; I thought I knew how to play this game before I came to this forum, and the more I read, the more I re-think many of my initial assumptions, and the more I learn strategies, principles, interactions and techniques. Even the arguments are interesting.
This is how you should always be thinking about University though, it isn't something unique to Highway that would warrant the "potentially harmful" badge.
Well, what's unique about University's relationship to Highway is that cost reduction is only useful for greening if you have plus buys or gainers.
If there's no +buy, Highway could still be worth it even with a gainer as boring as Workshop if you can play four Highways and then gain a Province/buy a Province. The fact that University ONLY gains actions does, specifically, nombo with Highway for that very reason.
On the flip side, Highway just by itself is often skippable if there's no +buys or gainers, because then you're paying $5 for a good Poacher.
In summary, University has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and Highway has some potential downsides that you have to factor in, and they do absolutely nothing to mitigate each other's downsides!
they do mitigate each other's downsides!
they do mitigate each other's downsides!
In some cases, you want to go for Highway without University. When that happens, it's a nombo the same way Scout + Nobles is a nombo; it would be better to buy Nobles without Scout.
Ok, maybe "nombo" is a bit strong. However, I just ran a simulation, and it is, in fact, "potentially harmful."
Opening Potion/Silver, buying one University, then gaining and buying Highways as fast as you can, vs. opening Silver/Silver and buying Highways as fast as you can has clear results:
University method: 10.1 average turns to 5 Highways
Silver method: 9.5 average turns to 5 Highways
(Buying more Universities only gets it down to 10.0)
Mathematically, then, University, on its own, makes getting Highways slower, not faster.
Maybe that doesn't rise to the level of nombo, but it gets pretty close to "potentially harmful interaction."
I'm sure this surprises very few experienced players, but given that the original poster was probably a relative beginner to have posted the suggestion in the first place, learning that potion-cost cards really do slow down your deckbuilding that much might be a useful bit of knowledge to apply moving forward. If you're going to buy a poison potion, have a solid plan to make up for doing so.
Right, but nobody said that University is good at gaining Highways quickly
this isn't an interaction between University and Highway specifically, it's just how Uni works. Repeat this simulation with other $5's and you'll see what I mean.
in a real game there will be a possibility that University will be the fastest way gain Highways.
It is also ignoring the other utility that University provides.
Like I could post a simulation showing that Mandarin/Capital beats Travelling Fair/Counting House 90% (made up number) of the time but that doesn't make Travelling Fair/Counting House a "potentially harmful" interaction.
Right, I am an idiot. University specifies 'action'. I was looking for a non-terminal anything gainer to combo with Highway for gaining several Provinces each turn. Artificer requires either a lot of Highways or a lot of discards, Vampire works, but Bat doesn't gain, Devil's Workshop only lets you do it once each turn, Cobbler is played at start-of-turn, Wish is hard to get.
QuoteRight, but nobody said that University is good at gaining Highways quickly
The original poster listed "University + Highway" as a NaPUCI. There can be no other possible interpretation. Highway doesn't need the +actions.
Quotethis isn't an interaction between University and Highway specifically, it's just how Uni works. Repeat this simulation with other $5's and you'll see what I mean.
Done. And you're only sometimes right. University + Groundskeeper gains 5 Groundskeepers faster. Double-silver opening takes 11.1 turns to do so on average. So University is only slower when gaining cards that don't give economy. That's part of the redundancy: Highways already help you get more highways.
Quotein a real game there will be a possibility that University will be the fastest way gain Highways.
A possibility. But a probability? In a real game, there is likely to be +buy or you might skip Highway altogether, and with +buy and cost reduction, you could be getting $5s by the handful. University is still likely to slow you down.
In fact, I'll offer that as a challenge: Show me a simulation where University is, in fact, the fastest way to gain Highways in a kingdom. Can you do it without making University the only source of +Actions?
QuoteIt is also ignoring the other utility that University provides.
Correct. The original post was not "Highway + University + other cool stuff." It listed only Highway + University as a NaPUCI. I am saying that it is not. It is...let's see...an anti-synergy?
QuoteLike I could post a simulation showing that Mandarin/Capital beats Travelling Fair/Counting House 90% (made up number) of the time but that doesn't make Travelling Fair/Counting House a "potentially harmful" interaction.
I said nothing about which simulation wins. I never simulated getting points. I only simulated getting Highways in order to demonstrate that University + Highway isn't a thing. Sure, you might gain a Highway with a University that you have in your deck for other reasons, on your way to a big engine. That doesn't make it a thing.
I agree with you about this not being a particularly "neat" interaction.
This isn't reason enough to go for University on it's own, but it's certainly not a nombo and might be enough to tip you in the direction of University if it's a close call.
Forager/Heirlooms
Definitely neat, and definitely potentially useful. But you possibly want to win the Forager split before trashing your Heirlooms...
Cursed Village + Fishing Village
Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.
Cursed Village + Fishing Village
Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.
hm, I think I would go for Watchtower/Library and FV and skip CV if all three were available. Not sure if the additional actions justify the extra $2 expense and being Hexed (though many Hexes fizzle when issued during the Buy phase).
Save / Moat
Allows to ignore all the attacks.
In general, I try to avoid buying cheaper/weaker actions when planning to go Golem. I prefer my Golem draw a Goons and a Grand Market in lieu of two Harbingers. Also, the next Golem you play in the same turn would skip over the topdecked cards.
It's even better than that. You can avoid getting hit by a Bridge Troll and an Urchin every turn!Save / MoatThat way you can avoid getting hit by a bridge troll every turn!
Allows to ignore all the attacks.
It's even better than that. You can avoid getting hit by a Bridge Troll and an Urchin every turn!
i tried search, so excuse me if it already dropped
had a play (and a blast) with armory and procession
gaining 5 cost (duke) -> three piling, was kinda fun
i tried search, so excuse me if it already dropped
had a play (and a blast) with armory and procession
gaining 5 cost (duke) -> three piling, was kinda fun
Procession can’t gain Duke, as it is not an Action.
i have the german dark ages, yes.
it still felt quite strong gaining every turn at least one 5-cost card
I'm not seeing how that works. If you have rubbish at the top of your deck, Wisp gets it into your hand, but doesn't leave you any better off than if the rubbish hadn't been there. Worse, the rubbish has to be second card down for even that to work.
Iiiinteresting!I searched f.ds and the wiki and was frankly surprised I saw no mention of this interaction anywhere.
I can envisage boards where you might want to keep one, maybe even two, of your Coppers though? Particularly, keeping a Copper would let you buy Gold instead of a $5-cost on T4.I'm not an expert by any stretch so my natural inclination is to think that keeping a Copper dilutes your deck with, well, a Copper. Does that make me an overtrasher? Do I have a problem? Is there a support group for this?
Also, you probably want to buy a Ruins on T3.Excellent catch.
I'd love to know how that combo fitted into various kingdoms. I can see three very different ways to proceed:Your last 2 points both basically need a kingdom with +buy (figuring your deck would be strong enough to not want to waste entire turns solely buying a Death Cart at that point), which I didn't have, but are again excellent points.
- Buy the cards you really want, then once your ruins run out let the Death Cart eat itself,
- Buy another Death Cart every third turn.
- Rely on cantrip +Buy or a gainer to keep the Death Cart fed constantly throughout the game.
Your last 2 points both basically need a kingdom with +buy (figuring your deck would be strong enough to not want to waste entire turns solely buying a Death Cart at that point), which I didn't have, but are again excellent points.Death Cart means there likely is +buy, though...
Borrow / SummonWell, that may cause it to miss a shuffle that it otherwise wouldn't miss. And you don't get any on-buy effects.
If you have $4 and there is a cantripy/villagy $4 (there often is), you might as well Borrow to Summon it, rather than just buy it. Would there be any (non-edge-case) reason not to?
Rats, Monastery, Market Square
I played this combo yesterday and it worked in practice even better than I'd hoped. Opened Rats/Market Square on a 4/3, then bought a single Monastery and a couple more Market Squares. (Then, like an idiot, tried to pivot into doing funky stuff with a Forge rather than just greening, which was my downfall.)
Replacing cards in your deck with Rats makes it much more likely you'll get trashers and Market Squares to collide.
Each Rats and Gold you gain during your turn buffs your Monastery.
Monastery trashes a card at a time, so you can trash the cards you draw by trashing Rats. Or you might draw a Market Square...
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
Rats, Monastery, Market Square
I played this combo yesterday and it worked in practice even better than I'd hoped. Opened Rats/Market Square on a 4/3, then bought a single Monastery and a couple more Market Squares. (Then, like an idiot, tried to pivot into doing funky stuff with a Forge rather than just greening, which was my downfall.)
Replacing cards in your deck with Rats makes it much more likely you'll get trashers and Market Squares to collide.
Each Rats and Gold you gain during your turn buffs your Monastery.
Monastery trashes a card at a time, so you can trash the cards you draw by trashing Rats. Or you might draw a Market Square...
This is the thread for potentially useful card interactions. The thread for game reports is here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.
The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.
It was:The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.
It was:The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
Yeah I just now saw that whole debate that took place way back then. I remember it from back then, but didn't even remember that this was that same thread. Either way, it's not in the original post; only in a longer post that was made later on.
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
I'm not going to look through the whole thread to check and see if anyone else has mentioned 3-card interactions, but if the intent is that this thread can only be used for 2-card interactions, that should have been clearly stated up front.
It was:The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
Yeah I just now saw that whole debate that took place way back then. I remember it from back then, but didn't even remember that this was that same thread. Either way, it's not in the original post; only in a longer post that was made later on.
No, that's a quote from the OP.
Huh? Three or four observations about card interaction, but one measly parenthetical remark about Forge and suddenly this is a game report not a neat interaction?
It's not potentially useful, it has three cards in it which means it will never come up for anyone else playing full random.
There's already another different thread for this specific thing, actually:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0
I actually never knew the difference either. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by posting things in the wrong placesThere's already another different thread for this specific thing, actually:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16947.0
I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.
Those names are very similar.
I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.My feeling precisely.
Those names are very similar.
Stop posting Market Square + [trasher] gets lots of Gold. Yes. That's what Market Square does. It's not a combo, or particularly interesting.
That said, I do kind of like Rats + Monastery.
Stop posting Market Square + [trasher] gets lots of Gold. Yes. That's what Market Square does. It's not a combo, or particularly interesting.
Although I posted a three-card combo which is greater than the sum of its parts, I do believe each pair of within that triple also has neat features, albeit on a more modest scale.
Market Square and Monastery: if your hand contains two Monasteries and at least one Market Square, gaining Gold by playing the Monastery buffs the second.
Market Square and Rats: while the Market Squares are gaining Gold, the Rats are gaining more trashers. Yes, you obviously need an exit strategy that'll deal with all those Rats but in the meantime you get more uses out of Market Square more quickly than usual.QuoteThat said, I do kind of like Rats + Monastery.
Although I do agree that this thread is for 2 card interactions (Although you can't tell unless you scroll back for days examining all the posts), it still bugs me when people say that 3 card interactions aren't useful. They are.
I've been on the forums since september, and I didn't realize these were not the same thread until just now.My feeling precisely.
Those names are very similar.
If this thread is specifically for interactions between pairs of cards, and people care so very much about that, it kinda needs to be said in the subject line.
Man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to read the OP before posting in a threadMaybe; maybe not.
the purpose of the thread is to memorize all the combos that get posted in itThat ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.
That ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.
That ship probably sailed at least 40 screens ago.
That's because people keep posting interactions that aren't useful.
Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".
Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".
Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game. Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?
Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?
Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game.The fact that "memorise a lot of granular information" isn't synonymous with "become good at a game" is one of the reasons I prefer Dominion over, say, Chess.
Why do we need qualifiers? We should just start a thread called simply "Dominion card interactions".
Because we need a thread whose entire contents people can memorize to get better at the game. Posting your fun moments is fine and all, but can't we have just one thread whose goal is to actually make people improve at Dominion?
I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.
I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.
For each card, I literally (try to) remember all the relevant 2-card combinations it has. As a result, it takes me seconds to analyze kingdoms that would otherwise take minutes. As a result of that, I make better decisions during the game because I didn't waste the entirety of my attention span analyzing the kingdom at the start of the game. I wrote an article about this too: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18108.0
I'm pretty sure Awaclus was being facetious about memorizing card interactions, but I could be wrong.
For each card, I literally (try to) remember all the relevant 2-card combinations it has. As a result, it takes me seconds to analyze kingdoms that would otherwise take minutes. As a result of that, I make better decisions during the game because I didn't waste the entirety of my attention span analyzing the kingdom at the start of the game. I wrote an article about this too: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18108.0
I remember that article. But I got the sense that you were fitting cards into archetypes and analyzing the combinations of those archetypes, rather than doing a mental query of specific card combos. I guess it's something in between?
"Capital... is Counterfeit/Herbalist/Mandarin present?"
The trick seems to be your "key card" ranking that you make when analyzing the kingdom.
To get back on subject, here's a 3-card combo:
Sauna | Avanto | Leprechaun
3 Saunas and 3 Avantos (or 3/2 and whatever else) are a pretty good way to have Lep be your 7th card, with still having actions left. And Sauna/Silver can clean up any unwanted Golds.
EDIT: I guess Silver makes this a 4-card combo - does it still count?
Chancellor/counting house
All of your coppers go into your discard pile
QuoteChancellor/counting house
All of your coppers go into your discard pile
What is this "Chancellor" of which you speak?
Oh, you meant Messenger/Counting House! And it even comes with +buy to take advantage of all that extra coin, and it comes with a free Copper for you and your opponent! And early you can even use the +buy to buy extra Coppers to make Counting House even better!
Ouch, I think I just sprained the sarcasm lobe of my brain.
I was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.
Uh, Armory/Ghost was kind of fun when I used it in my last RL game.
QuoteI was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.
Um...geez...I hate to be the first, but...are you doing this on purpose? I mean, "Chase Aldolphson" is a pretty good troll name, but honestly, the shenanigans are getting a little thin. If you're really, truly as clueless as your messages imply then you need to do quite a bit more reading and studying before you post. If not, well, your particular brand of trolling is considerably less entertaining that roadrunner's Scout fetish. Which is a low bar.
At first, I just thought "newb" but now it's really starting to look more and more like a shtick. Then again, I'm a little slow and can take a while to catch on. I even tried Golem/Counting House once. Once.
<3
QuoteI was thinking that this combo needs an extra buy but I couldn't think of any put your deck into your discard pile with + buy. But now I realized that I was being stupid and totally forgot about messenger. Yeah, messenger/counting house would be a really fun combo to try.
Um...geez...I hate to be the first,
Take a look at the timestamps.
(And I know JThorne came before me, because I didn't want to be the first!)
Exorcist / Quarry
Trash Estate, gain Imp
Exorcist / Quarry
Trash Estate, gain Imp
Sorry to derail your fun, but I have a question about the above. I must be having a brain freeze.
Quarry reduces the cost of Action cards by 2. How does trashing an Estate here get an Imp?
Sage / Will-o-WispOnly problem is when you're starting out with only Sages!
Play all your Sages -> Draw all >=3's -> Discard all <3's -> Play all your Wisps -> Draw all <3's
Doctor / Changeling
I guess you can do the overpay for Doctor, and then exchange the Doctor for a Changeling. So assuming you want Changelings, you can Doctor overpay a bunch.
Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle
Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?
Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle
Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?
Strictly better Harem?
Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle
Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?
Strictly better Harem?
Salt the Earth/Crumbling Castle
Would you like your Silver to come with 2 VP?
Strictly better Harem?
Why is it better than harem?
Soon to come:
- edge cases
- more edge cases
- edge cases involving loan
- someone will explain why loan is underrated
Strictly better Harem?Soon to come:
- more edge cases
Strictly better Harem?Soon to come:
- more edge cases
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Scout.jpg)
Pooka + Donate: Buy a $5 card with Cursed Gold and then Donate before you see the Curse.
Pooka + Donate: Buy a $5 card with Cursed Gold and then Donate before you see the Curse.
I guess the practical application of this is to play CG to buy Donate on turn 1 and then get rid of everything except 5-6 Coppers, and potentially buy a $3 on turn 2.
I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.
I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.
I like to do donate at about turn 5 and trash every copper and every estate. My dad did the strategy that you said and I won badly because he had coppers cluttering up his deck.
I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.
I like to do donate at about turn 5 and trash every copper and every estate. My dad did the strategy that you said and I won badly because he had coppers cluttering up his deck.
It's good to get rid of your Estates as soon as possible because getting rid of an Estate is ridiculously good for your economy. It's not good to get rid of your Coppers as soon as possible because Coppers are also good for your economy, combined with draw. That's why it's better to Donate t1 to trash the Estates, and get rid of the Coppers little by little throughout the game using a different trasher, or buy another Donate later on in the game, or just build enough draw to draw all the Coppers in some rare cases.
Hmm. That one feels like a workaround for an unnecessary restriction. I wonder if, with Nocturne hindsight, it might have made more sense for Plan to say "non-Victory" rather than "Action"?
Den of Sin/Horn of Plenty
Gain lots of Den of Sins through Horns of Plenty, then have your megaturn and gain all the Provinces. Probably one of the strongest HoP enablers out there.
Den of Sin/Horn of Plenty
Gain lots of Den of Sins through Horns of Plenty, then have your megaturn and gain all the Provinces. Probably one of the strongest HoP enablers out there.
For this to work, Dens would have to be ignored for much of the game, no?
Will-o-wisp and Bandit Camp. Spoils cost 0, so will-o-wisp picks them up! Plus I got the WOW from pixie, which means goat ate everything else, so WOW was pretty consistently a lab.
Horse Traders + VillaHopefully you want the Villa - as this still leaves you a net of $0
Struggling to get the full +$3 from your Horse Traders because it keeps forcing you to discard treasures? End actions without playing the Horse Traders, buy a Villa, play the Villa, then play the Horse Traders for the full amount.
Unsurprisingly, Castles/Shepherd is a pretty good combo.
Not useful, but certainly neat.
When you play an Enchantress, it covers the first Action card played during a turn... Which includes a Werewolf in the Night Phase.
I like lyles way better because you can just get a gold with cg and 3 coppers then donate trash everything except gold then use gold to get silver and then just go from there.
That's really slow. You want to keep at least 5 Coppers around on your first Donate, and you generally want that Donate to happen on turn 1.
Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold
A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.
Charm plus two of City Quarter, Overlord, and Royal Blacksmith[...]I've just noticed: unlike Talisman and Stonemason, Charm works on Victory cards. I've not tried it, but using Charm to gain a Duke when you buy a Duchy or vice-versa seems like it would be a pretty neat trick.
Charm plus two of City Quarter, Overlord, and Royal Blacksmith[...]I've just noticed: unlike Talisman and Stonemason, Charm works on Victory cards. I've not tried it, but using Charm to gain a Duke when you buy a Duchy or vice-versa seems like it would be a pretty neat trick.
I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv.
I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv.
I'm confused about how you did this without trashing the Lamp to the Mint. Was this a Baker board? CG+C only gives $4 on its own.
Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold
A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.
I fail to see how getting rid of Cursed Gold to replace it with an actual Curse is good. As always with Mint, its strength is getting rid of Coppers, and Cursed Gold allows you to do that earlier at the cost of a Curse... and a Mint. Now you have a deck of three Estates, a Curse, a Mint, and at least two Coppers. Although in this case Cursed Gold was worse than Copper, as a hand of five Copper can buy Mint just as well without getting a Curse. Or perhaps you drew CG together with 3 Coppers. Well, now your deck is still mostly junk. I guess you can buy Mint with a Cg/C/C opening, but honestly, I'd rather just have a trasher that helps me get rid of the non-money junk.
The real interaction here seems to be centered around Mint, Market Square and Lookout. Similar to, let's say, Mint, Tunnel and uh, Navigator.
Another problem is that Cursed Gold boards always have Pooka, i.e. a good use for your Coppers, which makes Mint even less attractive.Mint + Pooka / Cursed Gold
A mint opening will always be possible with CG, and in all but the CG/C/3E + 5C situations, it will take out your CG before the 1st shuffle at the cost of gaining just one Curse. There might be boards where this isn't what you want to do, but I don't think there will be that many of them. I had the CG/C/MLamp/2E + 4C/E opening split and opened Mnt/Slv. A deck of 3E/3C/MLamp/Slv/Mnt/Crs got underway pretty nicely as I quickly picked up a Lookout and Market Square, used them to gain a gold, and was able to activate MLamp and buy a Wharf pretty quickly and Wish my way into a 2nd Wharf and 2 more Golds. MktSq and Lkt helped me trim down a bit more and get a 4th Gold and I just walked that home (there was no splitter of any sort). It seems to me that such an opening would be very nice on most boards.
I fail to see how getting rid of Cursed Gold to replace it with an actual Curse is good. As always with Mint, its strength is getting rid of Coppers, and Cursed Gold allows you to do that earlier at the cost of a Curse... and a Mint. Now you have a deck of three Estates, a Curse, a Mint, and at least two Coppers. Although in this case Cursed Gold was worse than Copper, as a hand of five Copper can buy Mint just as well without getting a Curse. Or perhaps you drew CG together with 3 Coppers. Well, now your deck is still mostly junk. I guess you can buy Mint with a Cg/C/C opening, but honestly, I'd rather just have a trasher that helps me get rid of the non-money junk.
The real interaction here seems to be centered around Mint, Market Square and Lookout. Similar to, let's say, Mint, Tunnel and uh, Navigator.
You may be right - but I think you're interpreting my understanding of the benefit slightly wrong. I'm not saying Mint is a great way to trash CG, but that CG means you're going to be able to open Mint, and thus trash coppers, in any opening (though I'm not sure you'd want to on 5C vs CG/C/3E unless there's, say, Remake). It may well be that this is only normally useful on CG/3C/E (and that it only worked well for me on CG/2C/2E because of the Lookout/Msq side of things), but, even then, that's a huge improvement on only being able to do it on 5C and needing a convenient $2 on the board to boot, which is the standard Mint opening situation.
Counting House (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Counting_House) + Night Watchman (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Night_Watchman)
Kudos for finding that one! I'm going to have to try it out.
It's worth noting, this strategy plays very differently than most Dominion games, and counter to many of your intuitions, so it's worth practicing if you want to be able to execute properly when it comes up.
Gear/Trade might be the fastest BM option out there. I happened to stumble upon it recently:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15455.msg755789#msg755789
Gear/Trade might be the fastest BM option out there. I happened to stumble upon it recently:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15455.msg755789#msg755789
I forgot about that post (despite upvoting it). When it comes to 2-card money strategies, Gear + Trade is only behind Donate + Market Square (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17267.0) (if that counts) and Donate + Windfall (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18189.0), I believe. However, it's possibly more likely that there's something on board to compete with those monolithic Donate strategies (still unlikely). I was also able to get 4 Provinces in 9 turns with Envoy (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Envoy) + Trade once, but it's less reliable and less elegant.
Butcher + Silk Merchant
Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.
Butcher + Silk Merchant
Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.
Welcome to the forum.
Bishop + Bonfire
There's a pretty fast golden deck here (faster and more reliable than the Chapel + Bishop golden deck). So, if there aren't any disruptive attacks, you might want to go for it.
Turn 1-2: Buy Bishop + Bonfire
Turn 3-4: Trash 1 Estate and exactly 3 additional cards. Usually, this comes about with one Bishop trash and two Bonfire purchases, trashing only one Copper on the second purchase. You can also get there with two Bishop trashes and one Bonfire purchase. Sometimes, this doesn't work out and you are delayed one turn.
Deck: Bishop, 2 Estates, 2 Coppers
Turn 5: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 6: Trash Estate, Buy Silver
Turn 7: Trash Copper, Buy Gold
Turn 8: Trash Copper, Buy Province
Turn 9+: Trash Province, Buy Province
Your VP after turn 8 is 14-15, then you get 5 VP per turn and end the game on turn 15 with 49-50 VP. Add 1 turn to these totals if you aren't fortunate enough to trash to a 5-card hand by turn 5.
Counting House (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Counting_House) + Night Watchman (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Night_Watchman)
This is beyond neat and certainly more than potentially useful!
Butcher + Silk Merchant
Obvious and potentially useful turbo remodel variant.
Silk Merchant guarantees 5 on the first shuffle. Amass Butchers and Silk Merchants, turning some starting estates into Silk Merchants early. Maybe mill a Silk Merchant for+4 Coffers and +2 Villagers. With 1 extra token, Butcher can take Silk Merchant straight to Province in the end game. The Villagers should allow multiple-Butcher turns. There are interesting decisions around when to play Silk Merchants.
Welcome to the forum.
Yeah, but how many other users did he trash before getting here?
I'm very sure this isn't the first time anyone's noticed this, but Herald is a phenomenal Ghost Ship counter.
Counting House (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Counting_House) + Night Watchman (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Night_Watchman)
This is beyond neat and certainly more than potentially useful!
This is can't seem to get to work at all. I imagine it is that I am playing the night watchmen wrong. Care to unpack how you are playing the night watchmen here. I try and discard all coppers and try not to trigger reshuffles, but I am getting bogged down a lot, so i magine i'm doing something wrong.
Wait, that doesn't sound right.... You only get a Madman "if you didn't buy any cards this turn", not just if you didn't buy any cards after playing Hermit.
Experiment + Devil's Workshop
Buy an Experiment, gain two of them, and get an imp from Devil's Workshop
If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.
If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.
With $1 of cost reduction and a Sculptor you can gain 10 Scepters.
Guildhall + Beggar
Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush. Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6. There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars. I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.
Guildhall + Beggar
Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush. Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6. There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars. I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.
On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.
Guildhall + Beggar
Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush. Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6. There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars. I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.
On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.
Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?
Guildhall + Beggar
Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush. Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6. There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars. I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.
On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.
Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?
Well, in a BM game you need a money density of $1.6/card to buy a Province every turn on average. Your deck starts out at 10 cards with $0.7/card, so if all you do is buy Silvers ($2/card), you'll need more than 20 Silvers to get your money density high enough. Considering the fact that Masterpieces themselves are just Coppers, it gets even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if getting around 30 Silvers is optimal, which is not quite an empty Silver pile but pretty close to it.
Guildhall + Beggar
Even without +Buy or other help, these two together can make for a surprisingly fast Province rush. Guildhall gives you +1 Coffers every time you gain a treasure, which means Beggar essentially reads +$6. There's probably some optimization here that I haven't figured out yet, but the basic strategy is to open Beggar-Beggar, buy Guildhall with your first $5 (which should be very easy with a Beggar play), then buy Province every time you play Beggar, and buy extra Beggars on hands without Beggars. I can usually get 7-8 Provinces in about 12 to 13 turns, and I've had a few games where I emptied Provinces by turn 10 or 11.
On a related note: Guildhall + Masterpiece
Buy Guildhall with your first $5, then Masterpieces, overpaying as much as possible. Uncontested, Silver runs around turn 8, afterwards you can easily buy a Province per turn. In a mirror, Silver runs around turn 6-7, and the game ends by turn 10 or 11. Obviously Gardens and Feodum love this.
Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?
Well, in a BM game you need a money density of $1.6/card to buy a Province every turn on average. Your deck starts out at 10 cards with $0.7/card, so if all you do is buy Silvers ($2/card), you'll need more than 20 Silvers to get your money density high enough. Considering the fact that Masterpieces themselves are just Coppers, it gets even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if getting around 30 Silvers is optimal, which is not quite an empty Silver pile but pretty close to it.
With all the coffers you get from that last Masterpiece?
Doesn't emptying the Silver pile seem a little excessive if it's just a Province game?
patrol is probably from pate (foot) so eventually from PIE *ped-
Flag Bearer + Changeling
Don't like junking your deck with terminal silvers? Well change them to something else then, and still get the Flag!
Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.
It's actually quite good with Border Village since all you need is a Border Village in play to gain any card costing $5 or less.Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.
Changeling is less appealing with Border Village (village 4lyfe), but can still work out if you are racing to win the split of a cheaper pile and happen to reach $6.
So all sources I’ve checked seem like to agree “patrol” is from Old French patte ‘paw’; and then Wiktionary says it’s connected to *pent-; Etymonline says maybe *ped- via Celtic; OED just throws up its hands and says maybe it’s okay onomatopoeic—I think we may just have to accept the etymology of this word is unsettled.
It's actually quite good with Border Village since all you need is a Border Village in play to gain any card costing $5 or less.Changeling is nice with everything that has an on-gain benefit.
Changeling is less appealing with Border Village (village 4lyfe), but can still work out if you are racing to win the split of a cheaper pile and happen to reach $6.
Are these $2 extra for trashing HoP that great? When you can trash the Horn of Plenty for Province, the seven cards in play often have provide enough payload for purchasing a second Province anyway. If there is +Buy on board, the marginal benefit of using the Horn of plenty is less pronounced.
But thanks for the hint, it is certainly worth a second look. They can't all be Quarry and Stonemason.
Seer + Chariot Race
Seer leaves copies of itself and other expensive cards on top of your deck so Chariot Race is activated when played. Seer also picks up your Chariot Races into your hand. The time I saw it Altar was also on the board, which enabled getting many Seers and Chariot Races while trashing, but any decent gainer should work.
Star Chart + Masquerade (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Masquerade)
Star Chart + Masquerade (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Masquerade)
I just tried this out for about a dozen games... and it seems to consistently but barely beat Lord Rattington, who foregoes the Star Chart for double Masquerade (and sometimes does other weird things, of course).
It was okay, I guess? But nothing to write home about, and rarely seemed to be the best strategy. Masquerade and Star Chart both accelerate engines, too.
Also interesting with Crown. If you have any cost reduction and Crown a Sculptor, you can empty both Crowns and Sculptors instantly, unless one pile is more than two copies lower than the other.If you have an Artisan in hand and Scepter in the kingdom, you can play the Artisan to gain n Scepters where n is your handsize.
With $1 of cost reduction and a Sculptor you can gain 10 Scepters.
And as much Villagers
If you have market and smith, the market gives +1 action that lets u play the smith and get +four cards. Then if you draw gold that will give you money so you can buy province. This combo is strong because the market ALSO gives money, and lets u buy more money (free!!): but problem is sometimes you dont draw market and smith together >:(
No, this is absolutely a troll. Not even beginner players are that clueless.
From their post history (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=6613), the first two only had me like 60% convinced they're trolling, but "i think the best card is harbinger" puts it over the top..
No one would seriously claim that, whereas a troll would ::)
sory i am not good @ the english what is troll?? ???
sory i am not good @ the english what is troll?? ???(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/77/Bridge_Troll.jpg)
Priest + Watchtower + Extra buys
Basically, Watchtower gives you a 1 Buy --> x coin conversion option in your buy phase, where x is 2 times the number of Priests you've played this turn. You may want to keep some of the Coppers you buy, though, to fuel the Priests for next turn.
Black Market / Coin of the Realm
Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.
Black Market / Coin of the Realm
Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.
But you need an action to play Black Market... so this could work if you have 1 action, Black Market, CotR, and 2 other terminals that you want to play, all in hand. But man is that a really bad Village.
Black Market / Coin of the Realm
Out of actions? No fear, just play black market, then your CotR, then bam more actions for you.
But you need an action to play Black Market... so this could work if you have 1 action, Black Market, CotR, and 2 other terminals that you want to play, all in hand. But man is that a really bad Village.
Black Market and Storyteller let you play and call coin of the Realm in the same turn, which you can't normally do.
Hideout + Watchtower
Trash the Estates revealing Watchtower to trash the Curses. You also get a village that reduces handsize for Watchtower's draw.
Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.
Market (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Market) or Squire (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire)Misread that at first.
oh sure; those just weren't in the game I did this in, festival was.Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.
Why Festival? Surely Market (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Market) or Squire (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire) would be better.
Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.
Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.
Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.
Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.
:golfclap:
how does this only have 2 upvotes. 8)
A really strong combination that I've seen work twice recently is Sentry and Fortune. First, you need to use your fortune to have 5/2. Then you use your fortune to draw Sentry on turn 3. Then you use it again to draw the same sentry on turns 4 and 5. At that point, you've almost certainly won the game.
Fortune? isn't that not available until after the gladiators are gone?
Fortune isn't available until the Gladiators are gone, but fortune is available at any point in any game. Fortune only gives coins and a buy, but fortune can make a winner. Sometimes you even need fortune to get Fortune.
Edit: Fortune no longer sounds like a word.
:golfclap:
how does this only have 2 upvotes. 8)
Because that was silverspawn's joke to begin with.
Way of the Sheep + Necropolis is a good way to get a better card in Turn 1 or Turn 2 than you would with an ordinary start
Festival, Donate, Tomb. Buy and trash the entire coppers pile, have a deck with no green, and still win on vp tokens.
Way of the Horse + Ruins
Can function as a way to return Ruins to the pile
If there are cards that give out ruins and you have the actions to play them, then you can not only return the ruins to the pile, you can give them right back to your opponent
Although, if both players are Horsing around with the Ruins, then you run into a similar situation to Ambassador Estate Tennis
Way of the Horse + Ruins
Can function as a way to return Ruins to the pile
If there are cards that give out ruins and you have the actions to play them, then you can not only return the ruins to the pile, you can give them right back to your opponent
Although, if both players are Horsing around with the Ruins, then you run into a similar situation to Ambassador Estate Tennis
Improve/Rats is definitely a "potentially useful" card interaction.
Way of the Chameleon and City Quarter is completely mental.
I trashed pretty much everything except for a pile of random actions (didn't really matter what they were), then over a couple of tuns once the show was rolling bought a total of 9 of the city quarters, and 8 sulks (for the +buy), (I think I used engineer as an enabler to get the sulks faster) then managed to hit 89 coin with 9 buys to buy out the whole province pile with rather a lot to spare. My opponent hadn't figured what I was planning until too late, from the point of having trashed most non actions and owning a single city quarter to the megaturn only took 3 turns...
Hunting Lodge + Goons
or
Hunting Lodge + Monument
Play a Hunting Lodge for actions. If you're out of Goons/Monument, replace your hand. Play Goons/Monument until you need more actions. Play a Hunting Lodge for five fresh cards. Repeat.
Way of the Horse and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat
1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons – Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
On gain Villa goes to hand, give + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs
Way of the Horse and Villa in the setup
Hand: 4 Merchant Guilds and a Goons
4 Villagers in Villagers Mat
1 – Play the 4 Merchant Guilds - Gain 4 Coffers from Merchant Guilds
2 – Play Goons
3 – Buy Villa – Gain 1 VP from Goons
On gain Villa goes to hand, give + 1 action and returns game to action phase
4 – Play Villa as Way of the Horse – Villa returns to its pile
5 – Play 4 Coffers
Repeat steps 3 to 5 indefinitely for infinite VPs
I think this doesn't work? If you play Villa as Way of the Horse, you don't get the +buy back, so you run out of buys.
You do need Royal Seal even if you drew your deck because Treasurer gains to hand.
Possibly neat, but how is this potentially uesful?
For that loop, you don't actually need to net an action each time as long as you have 1 to start, so you can replace the Seaway+Villa with just Cavalry, if you were able to draw your deck.
Possibly neat, but how is this potentially uesful?
TIL: Stonemason + any cost reducer = cwazy.
I figured it had probably been noted in this thread before, but it's been a long time since I read the first post...TIL: Stonemason + any cost reducer = cwazy.
Did you learn that from the opening post in this thread?
Stumbled upon a useful combo tonight: Groundskeeper + Way of the Frog. Since the part that gives you victory tokens is below the line, you can still get the tokens with a victory card buy, while putting it into your next hand to get a token again. Of course, this is assuming you don't need the +1 card
Research / Fortress
Of course Fortress is good with any TFB, but this interaction makes Research shines.
I played a game where I bought 3 Researches and 3 Fortress and I was starting every turn with 9 or 13 cards in hand. This made me win against a player so much better than me.
Guardian is surprisingly not good against Coven.
I just lost a game where I won the curse split 8–1. I was protecting myself from my opponent's Covens with Guardians, while she was basically unprotected and just taking the curses. But because of my Guardians, the Curse pile depleted really slowly, so my opponent's curses never actually made it into her deck at all. So the upshot was, she lost some points but not in a way that impacted her deck efficiency, while I had a bunch of duration-coppers slowing my deck down, and I lost the Provinces 2–6.
I have not tried it yet, but I presume that you can also use Necromantic Butterflies to gain $4s (and other values if you seed the trash).
I have not tried it yet, but I presume that you can also use Necromantic Butterflies to gain $4s (and other values if you seed the trash).
Butterfly doesn't work. Cards in the trash can't be returned to a pile, and so you gain nothing.
Pillage/CounterfeitI actually find Pillage to be one of the worst Spoils targets for Counterfeits. If you play the combo every turn, you generate a whopping $4 using up an action, a buy and four draw slots. That is literally less than could get from just carrying 3 coppers and trashing/replacing 1 each turn. You could get a second Cfeit and then try to stack 5 draw into your engine, but that comes at the explicit cost of forgoing a Pillage buy/play.
You are gonna lose those spoils anyways, so why not double them?
Plus the spoils return before they can be trashed.
Black Cat/Way of the Frog.
Top deck the black cats.
Black Cat/Way of the Frog.
Top deck the black cats.
They don't give out Curses unless you play them as themselves. You can set them up to be in your hand for the next turn but your hand size will take a hit until you activate them.
Black Cat/Way of the Frog.
Top deck the black cats.
They don't give out Curses unless you play them as themselves. You can set them up to be in your hand for the next turn but your hand size will take a hit until you activate them.
probably known but rats / way of the horse is pretty fun
Leprechaun/Toil
Leprechaun looks at all cards, not just action cards, in play. Especially early in the game it is remarkably easy to make him grant a Wish if you can play any number treasures in addition to actions. Especially since, unlike Magic Lamp, he doesn't care about duplicates.
There are 220 matches for the word "count" in this thread, but not a single Count interaction. Time to change that!
Count/Crossroads or Count/Shepherd
Count is amazing for those strategies where you build your drawing engine from green cards:
- efficiently trash away your starting Coppers
- gain Duchies to fuel your engine and maintain a lead
- kickstart your next turn by putting a Crossroads/Shepherd on top of your deck!
Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want. You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand. Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn. So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc. It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.
Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want. You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand. Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn. So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc. It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.
Note this also works with Way of the Pig
Just played a game with Sheepdog and way of the seal. If u had a sheepdog in your hand you could buy anything, react with sheepdog/seal and then top deck whatever it was that you bought, plus u get one coin more buying power and top-decking for anything else bought. Here it was nice to top-deck covens to aid in the curse slam. A bit of an edge case but I there are a few other cards that activate too like falconer. Falconer worked in an interesting way, since if you are playing a falconer from your own buy usually it only gives effect by adding to your deck (absent villa/cavalry edge cases) but here u get the option of a 4 cost or less card in future, or top-deck whatever it is you bought to engage falconer. Not exactly sure why but I tried this with trader and market square but in those cases you can't play the way of the seal, only get the silver or gold etc, and it doesn't top-deck.trader changed over to "exchange" rather than "trash and gain" so keyword wise, you're exchanging the card you're reacting to, via trader, for a silver.
Just played a game with Sheepdog and way of the seal. If u had a sheepdog in your hand you could buy anything, react with sheepdog/seal and then top deck whatever it was that you bought, plus u get one coin more buying power and top-decking for anything else bought. Here it was nice to top-deck covens to aid in the curse slam. A bit of an edge case but I there are a few other cards that activate too like falconer. Falconer worked in an interesting way, since if you are playing a falconer from your own buy usually it only gives effect by adding to your deck (absent villa/cavalry edge cases) but here u get the option of a 4 cost or less card in future, or top-deck whatever it is you bought to engage falconer. Not exactly sure why but I tried this with trader and market square but in those cases you can't play the way of the seal, only get the silver or gold etc, and it doesn't top-deck.trader changed over to "exchange" rather than "trash and gain" so keyword wise, you're exchanging the card you're reacting to with trader for a silver.
Livery/Academy
With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.
Livery/Academy
With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.
Paddock has a similar effect with Academy. Less money ($2 as opposed to $3), but more villagers and horses
Livery/Academy
With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.
Paddock has a similar effect with Academy. Less money ($2 as opposed to $3), but more villagers and horses
once you get academy its almost hard to ever run out of actions.
played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
4) Turning coppers into Silvers if you have <$3played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
1) Blocking the Curses before they come in
2) Trashing the Curses if they do make it into your deck
3) Turning your IGGs into five Silvers.
6) Gaining a Silver instead of a Copper when playing IGG, if you have it in hand when you play it (most of the time you'd prefer to use Trader's trashing, so this is mostly only useful if you didn't have enough Actions to play it)4) Turning coppers into Silvers if you have <$3played a 4p game with IGG and Trader. Didn't really think about how Trader can actually kinda block the attack of IGG and skipped it. Took the bulk of the 30-deep curse pile.Yup. Trader has three good functions in IGG games:
1) Blocking the Curses before they come in
2) Trashing the Curses if they do make it into your deck
3) Turning your IGGs into five Silvers.
5) Piling out the silvers to end game (e.g. in a 3 player game with 40 silvers you can expect Silvers to get significantly depleted with just 2 or 3 Traders each).
It just occurred to me that Village Green makes Tactician potentially actually Throneable. If you Throne a Tactician with a Village Green in hand, and use the VG's reaction for this turn, then you have a card in hand to discard for the second play of Tactician, and you'd start your next turn with +10 cards +2 Actions +2 Buys! You could potentially even KC it, although it would only work if the card drawn by VG was another VG. But if you could pull that off, then you'd have +15 Cards +3 Actions +3 Buys for your next turn
This one's probably more well known but Way of The Mole + VG works for +6 cards, just Mole anything and then Mole the first VG (but not any other) you discardhow does this get you six cards? i am confused. Wouldn't you just get +1 additional card if you discarded a moled vg?
You discard your entire hand. That includes a VG. You play the VG for way of the Mole, get +3 cards. Then, you get the +3 cards for the first Mole
Oh, interesting, I didn't realize this would work like that, but I just tested it online and it does. Am I right that the sequence goes like this:
1. Play something as Way of the Mole.
2. +1 Action, Discard your hand.
3. Village Green gets discarded and gets played before the "+3 cards" of the previous Mole.
4. Choose to play Village Green as Way of the Mole.
5. +1 Action, Discard your hand (0 cards). +3 cards.
6. Draw the +3 cards from the remainder of the Way of the Mole in step 2. You now have 6 cards.
Exactly. If a reaction is triggered partway through resolving a card, then you resolve the reaction before continuing on with the rest of the card. So, in this case, any reactions to being discarded come before the +3 Cards. The same would apply if you discarded a Tunnel, which could be relevant if the +3 Cards caused you to reshuffle
Really nice interaction between peasant/page lines and way of the Mouse when the Moused card is a cantrip (in my game it was scheme). Buy as many pages or peasants as you want. You will never have a problem say getting stuck with 3 silver hunters/warriors/soldiers in same hand. Play the page/peasant as mouse and your still get to swap the card at the end of the turn. So you get like twice as fast deck cycling to get to the champion/Teacher etc. It was pretty fun with scheme top decking 4 warriors and repeatedly tossing my opponents cards so that he had to wait another shuffle to even have a shot of keeping em.
Note this also works with Way of the Pig
Ox and Mule also help, though not as much since they don't have draw. But they do at least give you a way to make your Travellers non-terminal
Livery + Academy + multiple buysAs previously noted, villagers come fast and furious in most Horse games. Sleigh and Cavalry become Labs with some Patron-like flexibility. Livery goes cantrip with one >$4 gain and reaches Champion level with additional gains. Even Groom and Hostelry can generate a few Acting troupes over the course of the game. Even Scrap can generate a lot of villagers to significantly impact the game (e.g. trashing a silver at the end of each turn can give you a villager and a horse to increase odds of successful draw the next turn). Event the events are mostly strong. Ride converts buy and coins to actions and draw which is usually a winning trade. Stampede is basically like playing two Acting troupes while demand can turn $4 cantrips into a cantrip + most of an Acting Troupe.
I had an irl game recently where this combo came up. I was the only one who noticed the Livery + Academy combo, and I was producing Villagers so fast, I only had one Village in my entire deck, and the rest of my Action cards were terminal, AND I was drawing my deck every turn, and I was STILL getting Villagers faster than I was spending them.
Game with Goat, Market Square, Peddler, and Pixie, and Tower. Once you buy a bunch of Market Squares, it becomes really easy to pile out Peddler. Plus, Goat + Market Square makes it easy to get Golds. My opponent completely overlooked that, and I was able to win the game 24-9, with all of my points coming from Tower - 9 Peddlers, 10 Market Squares, and 5 Pixies, having made a 3-pile ending by buying up the last Market Squares and Pixies. My opponent, on the other hand, had just one Province, 1 Peddler, and 2 Pixies. Treasure Map was also in the kingdom, and they went for that instead. They did manage to activate the Treasure Map, but it didn't do them much good.
Game with Goat, Market Square, Peddler, and Pixie, and Tower. Once you buy a bunch of Market Squares, it becomes really easy to pile out Peddler. Plus, Goat + Market Square makes it easy to get Golds. My opponent completely overlooked that, and I was able to win the game 24-9, with all of my points coming from Tower - 9 Peddlers, 10 Market Squares, and 5 Pixies, having made a 3-pile ending by buying up the last Market Squares and Pixies. My opponent, on the other hand, had just one Province, 1 Peddler, and 2 Pixies. Treasure Map was also in the kingdom, and they went for that instead. They did manage to activate the Treasure Map, but it didn't do them much good.
Thanks, I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I roll a kingdom with Market Square, Peddler, Pixie, and Tower.
Not too creative, but Devil's Market and any event worth buying, especially repeatable ones is nasty af.
Specifcally Banish is amazing. Was able to banish 3 estates and 5 coppers for 4 golds over the first like 8 or 9 rounds, as each time your deck gets smaller to to bring that Devil's market back. Plus the golds help in getting the needed 4 to exile lots of coppers or estates
Livery/Academy
With a cube on Academy playing Livery is more or less like playing 3 Peddlers, if you gain a card costing $4 or more. With +buys and multiple Liverys you are quite soon at a point, where you never need to worry about Actions again and wish that the Horse pile would be bigger.
When you make as much bank as That Devils Worksop gets it turns into a Devil's Market.... ::)Not too creative, but Devil'sMarketWorkshop and any event worth buying, especially repeatable ones is nasty af.
Specifcally Banish is amazing. Was able to banish 3 estates and 5 coppers for 4 golds over the first like 8 or 9 rounds, as each time your deck gets smaller to to bring that Devil's market back. Plus the golds help in getting the needed 4 to exile lots of coppers or estates
devil's workshop? or is devil's market a translation of something like windfall or commerce?
Adding to fun stuff with Livery...
Livery/Procession
Play Livery, gain Horses, Procession Horses, gain more Processions and Horses. It becomes fairly easy to empty the Procession and Horse piles quickly.
Royal Carriage (or any throner) + Hunting Lodge + Way of the Chameleon
You can Chameleon a Hunting Lodge to discard your hand for +$6, then replay it normally and draw back up to 5 with a bunch of actions to spare. Pretty neat!
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Stockpile.
h discards 5 Stockpiles from Exile.
h buys and gains a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Coin of the Realm and a Livery.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Coin of the Realm. (+$1)
h puts a Coin of the Realm on their Tavern mat.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws an Estate and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h shuffles their deck.
h draws 2 Stockpiles.
h gets +1 Buy.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Stockpile and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains a Cavalry.
h draws a Stockpile and a Cavalry.
h gets +1 Buy.
h plays a Stockpile.
h gets +1 Buy.
h exiles a Stockpile.
h buys and gains 2 Provinces.
Way of the Turtle can basically give you immunity to Enchantress. All you need is to Turtle one Action card from turn to turn. Since the Turtled card is the first Action played, it's the one that's hit by Enchantress' attack, even if you then use the Way to override it. A cheap Action card, or a card whose usefulness runs out later in the game, like Chapel or Moneylender, are especially good cards to use for this
Way of the Turtle can basically give you immunity to Enchantress. All you need is to Turtle one Action card from turn to turn. Since the Turtled card is the first Action played, it's the one that's hit by Enchantress' attack, even if you then use the Way to override it. A cheap Action card, or a card whose usefulness runs out later in the game, like Chapel or Moneylender, are especially good cards to use for this
Nice. That's actually better than immunity. You basically get a hireling when enchantress is played
So I am a beginner and found an interesting trio of cardsI'm confused. Are you going to tell us what these 3 cards were, or are we supposed to guess?
Got me through a slog board with no trashers, draw, plus buy or other gainers. Helped me cycle through junk, and reliably gained gold (there was a tunnel race going on to collide it with cellar early and then clear piles)
Lots of interesting card combinations in this game!
Opponent plays Possession (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Possession), followed by Witch (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Witch) for the ultimate insult.
Respond to gaining the curse by playing Sheepdog (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sheepdog), playing it as Way of the Mouse (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Way_of_the_Mouse) which has a Vassal (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Vassal) set aside. Vassal discards Lich (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lich). Play it, draw a bunch of cards, skip your Possessed turn and move on to your normal turn.
Opponent plays Possession (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Possession), followed by Witch (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Witch) for the ultimate insult.
Respond to gaining the curse by playing Sheepdog (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sheepdog), playing it as Way of the Mouse (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Way_of_the_Mouse) which has a Vassal (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Vassal) set aside. Vassal discards Lich (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lich). Play it, draw a bunch of cards, skip your Possessed turn and move on to your normal turn.
I'll be sure to keep this in mind the next time I'm playing a kingdom with Possession, Witch, Sheepdog, Wizards and Way of the Mouse with Vassal.
Voyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."
Herald plays a card not from hand alsoVoyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."
Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Herald plays a card not from hand alsoVoyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."
Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Herald plays a card not from hand alsoVoyage + Vassal/Herald/Courier/Captain/etc.
"...you can only play 3 cards from your hand."
Herald doesn't help; you still have to play the Herald from your hand. Vassal and Courier give you +coin in addition to playing cards not in your hand, but Herald just gives you +Actiion you can't use and +Card you can't play.
Yeah, but only one. So you play one card from hand (Herald) to gamble that it will reveal a good Action card
Lost in the Woods + Gang of Pickpockets is an interesting combination. Assuming you're starting with the usual hand of 5 cards, both are trying to get you to discard one card. So if you resolve Lost in the Woods first, then you're already at four cards when Pickpockets resolves (of course, if you want to discard down to three, maybe because you have a draw-to-X card or two Tunnels in hand, you can choose to resolve Pickpockets first).
As pointed out in the rulebook, Highwayman can actually draw itself! Was this possible before?
Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!
Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!
If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.
Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!
If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.
Vanilla Smithy for $5 is not far below par for the course for terminal draw, there's not really a lot of draw for less than $5 and most of it is pretty bad. In a kingdom with no other villages besides the +action token, the fact that putting it on Emissary allows you to both draw your deck and play two other terminals is substantial. It's also way easier to activate than e.g. Swashbuckler, which people still manage to activate all the time.
Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costsI got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
It doesn't let you do that though. You have to have cards in discard to get the extra action ands favors so if you are drawing your whole deck each turn without discarding effects you can't get the bonus.
Saying it's good if there's no other draw is silly, because that's true for any draw, action, and usually buy, that if its the only option its good. Its still not really a combo, and wont outperform much of any other draw options unless you have discard or some other way to set up the extra effect. It is an expensive smithy without that.
it's a market price Smithy
That's funny, I also had Supplies for the horses in the game that I used it.Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costsI got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.
Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.
I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
I don't think they're talking about using those cards on the Voyage turn. They're talking about using them on your regular turn after your discard has a bunch of stuff you discarded on your Voyage turns.Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit ThingŤ™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.
I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.
On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.It has been pointed out, yes. Necropolis and the Zombies also have the same quality.
I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.To be fair Black Market may be more balanced and less random with everything being a lab instead of randomly giving only one person labs.
On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
Villa + Fellowship of Scribes is handy, provided you have a good source of Favors, netting +1 Card +2 Actions +$1 +1 BuyWhile you're not wrong at all that is the point of Fellowship of Scribes. Any none-terminal that doesn't draw is good with it.
In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)
In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)
throw in a Baths, you got yourself a real do-nothing combo
In a recent game I discovered that Voyage has a strong synergy with Exploration. Basically you are highly rewarded for doing a lot of nothing. :)You discovered Voyages of Exploration are a thing? 8)
You can use Bauble (or any of the other topdecking effects) to topdeck the Gold from Treasure Trove but not the Copper.
Posting here because it was an interaction I didn't think about until after I bought the cards.
Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!
It lets you gain Possessions easier than anything we have seen before; the significance of that cannot be overstated enough. On top of that, Voyage is also excellent for getting multiple Possession plays.Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!
I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
It lets you gain Possessions easier than anything we have seen before; the significance of that cannot be overstated enough. On top of that, Voyage is also excellent for getting multiple Possession plays.Possession + Odysseys
Make sure you get your Sunken Treasure before it's too late!
I don't get this one... are you just saying because it lets you gain Possessions easily?
In the game on which I got this interaction, I opened with Old Map, got a Voyage and a Sunken Treasure, and always cycled until Distant Shore was on top. My opponent underestimated the importance of that pile (or should I say: the urgency of getting stuff thereof) and got none of these. By the time I played my first Possession (on a Voyage turn), I had two of these, and my opponent was like: "let's get the hell out of here."
It's strong, but it's not particularly nasty (you're just getting lots of extra turns for yourself rather than doing damage to your opponent).
I've had Possession/Way of the Horse. Now that one is nasty.
It's strong, but it's not particularly nasty (you're just getting lots of extra turns for yourself rather than doing damage to your opponent).
I've had Possession/Way of the Horse. Now that one is nasty.
wow that would be nasty. tossing back your opponent's possessions oof
Has Swap + Emporium been mentioned already?
KC/KC/Scheme/Scheme/X - best if X is + cards or +$This is an old trick, but it’s good enough that it’s worth mentioning again.
A killer guaranteed to get you a province or colony every turn and can't be stopped.
You get to keep the same 5 cards every hand.
The only way this doesn't work is if there is a hand size attack or a masquerade or some other card that makes you trash a card from your hand.
Even a hand size attack only slows it down.
Like usually ignore gold kind of good.
Like usually ignore gold kind of good.
So a completely unremarkable, indistinguishable from nothing kind of good.
Why? there are a lot times you should optimally gain gold over Altar.
Not that this one requires a PHD to figure out but Toil and Souk is just bonkers. as long as you have 2 coins avail you play every souk without the coins deducting your souk+7. 2 coins and 3 souks produces 12 coins.
Catapult + Trail
It is interesting as Trail can be used as Familiar plus as defense against the handsize attack.
Buying a Death Cart with a Cauldron in play = instant Cursing!
Well, is the Curse worse than the two Ruins?
Collection + Death Cart is nice as endgame accelerator.
Well, is the Curse worse than the two Ruins?
Collection + Death Cart is nice as endgame accelerator.
Buying a Death Cart with a Cauldron in play = instant Cursing!
Trail plus virtually any trash for gain card. Some noteworthy I have actually encountered:
With each you of course get to play the trail and get a card and an action.
Scrap - pick 4 options
Salvager $4,
Bishop - 3 points
Trader - 4 silvers, (very useful with a Feodem)
Forge - trash 2 and get a Province
Expand - gain a card up to $7
Remake - gain a $5 card or 2
The more of these I discover, the more ridiculously potent I think this card is.
I think we all know by now that Trail interacts with trashing. It, like, says it right on the card itself.
I think we all know by now that Trail interacts with trashing. It, like, says it right on the card itself.
This is off topic. This thread is to discuss Neat and potentially useful card interactions, not what you think that we all know.
Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.
Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.
Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.
Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.
This is really good to know. But isn't it s glitch? Colonnade is supposed to only activate when you gain a card with it in play. You gain the Berzerker before the berzerker plays, and thus don't have a berserker in play until after the gain? so how does it count itself for colonnade?
Buying Berserker when you have any Action in play activates Colonnade, since it puts itself into play while Colonnade's trigger window is still open. Then using the Berserker's on-play to gain a copy of the Action you already had in play activates it a second time, which gives you a free +4 VP on top of what would already be probably at least a decent move without the extra VP.
Then, unless someone gains Colonnade points some other way, the points are going to get split unevenly for at least a 4 VP difference.
This is really good to know. But isn't it s glitch? Colonnade is supposed to only activate when you gain a card with it in play. You gain the Berzerker before the berzerker plays, and thus don't have a berserker in play until after the gain? so how does it count itself for colonnade?
It works exactly like it's supposed to.
- 1. Gaining Berserker opens the "when you gain a Berserker" trigger window
- 2. Then everything that triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" keeps triggering until the window closes, which it does when there are no more things that trigger from it:
- 2a. Berserker itself triggers from "when you gain a Berserker" and puts it into play
- 2b. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" and if there is, it triggers, otherwise the window closes
- 2c. we see that Colonnade can now trigger from "when you gain a Berserker" because the Berserker is a copy of an Action you have in play
- 2d. then we check if there's anything else that can trigger from "when you gain a Berserker", but now we've finished resolving everything so the window closes
It says when you get this, play this, but since you never gain the second berserker I don't see how colonnade applies since it applies when you get another copy of a card in play, not itself when its only played once.
I get it now. Had to re-read the specific syntax of colonnade a little more but now it totally makes sense. Thanks for the OG post and for explaining it 7 times, sometimes It takes a while to get through my thick skull.... This combo is actually pretty nasty, especially if you can spring it on someone who doesn't yet have a berserker and can pin them someway (voyage, island folk, seize the day etc).It says when you get this, play this, but since you never gain the second berserker I don't see how colonnade applies since it applies when you get another copy of a card in play, not itself when its only played once.
It doesn't have to be another copy, it just has to be a copy. It's fine if the copy you're gaining and the copy you have in play are both the same copy.
Charm + Peddler/Prince: Charms can gain you multiple Provinces.I just discovered this in a kingdom with Prince and Charm. Since you are using your Charms on the Prince, I think an appropriate name for this strategy is "Prince Charming".
I had a really interesting one with cathedral, lurker and cavalry. Trash the cavalry with cathedral and the use lurker to regain with the +2 cards +1 buy.
Also lackeys on villageless boards, and the interaction with swap, or way-of-the-horse!
Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer
Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.
kinda. Complete attack nullification only applies to handsize attacks that say "players with 5 cards in hand" as some still make you discard to 3 anyway (though you do get the horse trader back) and just pointing out that Archer is one of those cuz it's new. Same thing would apply to Pillage for example.Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer
Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.
Not sure if defensive combos count here, but Horse traders is a great counter to archer. The reaction makes you have 4 cards in hand ergo it nullifies the Archer attack. Also is helpful against the warrior, but really shines vs the annoying AF archer.
Isn't that just the entire point of the Horse Traders reaction? To defend against handsize attacks? Or is there something about Archer I'm missing?
I think he just means Horse Traders is specifically well-suited to combatting Archer
Contrast with Militia, where you still end up discarding a card. Horse Traders returns and draws you a card, so you have the opportunity to discard a bad card and draw a good one, but you might have already had all your good cards in hand and then draw a Copper. Against Archer, Horse Traders negates the attack entirely and draws you a card on your turn, putting you in strictly a better position than you would have been without Archer being played.
That part also holds true for Soldier, Urchin, and Clerk. It is even better with Archer than those, though, as Archer isn't just a discard-one - discard one isn't usually too bad because you can typically discard something of low value (in a game with no trashing, very likely to be a Copper or Estate, but even in a game with strong trashing, there'll be a least-good card that you can choose)
This one is really OP. But New Donate and Trail is off the chain. Because under the new donate you trash all the cards at the start of your turn, so load up on trails and buy a bunch of engine parts, then trash all the trails for a pre-turn Lab a piece. Just bonkers, especially on boards that lack +draw and actions. Then use one of the buys to buy donate at the end of your turn to rinse and repeat.
This one is really OP. But New Donate and Trail is off the chain. Because under the new donate you trash all the cards at the start of your turn, so load up on trails and buy a bunch of engine parts, then trash all the trails for a pre-turn Lab a piece. Just bonkers, especially on boards that lack +draw and actions. Then use one of the buys to buy donate at the end of your turn to rinse and repeat.
Wouldn't the draw happen during the middle of Donate, so you'd have an empty deck at that point?
But you don't have anything to draw at that point. All of your cards are in your hand, so you trash/play a Trail and draw 0 cards from your empty deck/discard. You'll still get the extra action of course.
nope. I thought it would play as you did, but I saw it in practice. After a careful parsing of the instructions, it makes sense. First, put cards in your hand. Trash them resulting in the trails being played and thus drawing you cards and action, then shuffle "the rest" in your deck which I guess refers to all the cards not already in your hand. Since it never tells you to discard your deck again, and just says Draw 5 cards those go in addition to the ones you already have, and you keep all + actions, and possibly coins/buys, etc depending on the deck.
Applies equally to Village Green + Way of the Mole (just that people normally use VG as a normal village component)
Applies equally to Village Green + Way of the Mole (just that people normally use VG as a normal village component)
It works with Weaver too, although it's arguably not as good since it doesn't draw cards when played without the Mole.
weaver also reacts to scavenger, which I found weird because I am pretty sure that other discard cards like tunnel don't react to Scavenger.
weaver also reacts to scavenger, which I found weird because I am pretty sure that other discard cards like tunnel don't react to Scavenger.
It shouldn't... "put your deck into your discard pile" is not "discarding".
For that matter, Trail + Way of the Butterfly lets you gain $5 cards as though they cost $4. For example, you can use a Workshop variant to gain Trail, then use Trail's reaction to play it and apply Butterfly to return it for a Laboratory.
This also applies to Trails gained by Way of the Butterfly itself, letting you "double-upgrade" $3 Action cards. For example, you can play a Horse from your hand, apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Trail, play the Trail using its reaction, and apply Butterfly to return it and gain a Laboratory.
Citadel + Way of the Frog can be really strong as it allows you to play a single Action card non-terminally at the start of every turn, as long as you choose Frog for one of the two plays, similar to Prince, although with a few obvious differences
Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.
Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.
Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
You'd need a bunch of extra Actions to make that work though. Treasurer doesn't play the card it gains and Spell Scroll is terminal
Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.
Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
You'd need a bunch of extra Actions to make that work though. Treasurer doesn't play the card it gains and Spell Scroll is terminal
Spell Scroll is a Treasure; you don't need an Action to play it.
Reckless Crew
This thing does NOT have to return to the supply. Like at all.
Nearby Peddler
Dear programmers of Dominion Online, please prevent this one from popping up. (I've not encountered this one, but I dread the day I will)
First Mate + Nonterminal trasher
Trash stuff, then draw back to make up for the reduced handsize. First Maid can be quite nuts for sure.
Inspiring Cultist ... it's somewhat limited by the fact that Inspire can only work with Action cards that don't already have a copy in play, but it can still be very strong, especially if you have a good variety of Action cardsSweet -- a way to play all my Ruins! ;)
Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.
Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
Spell Scroll + Treasurer -- instantly empties the Treasurer pile and gives you $30.
Spell Scroll trashes itself to gain & play a Treasurer, which can pull the Spell Scroll back out of the trash into your hand (and net $3 each time). Repeat until the Treasurer pile is empty.
Lurker is a more fun version - gain 10 Lurkers. Spend the rest of the game, Lurking back the scroll after every play (as only you have Lurkers). You can also mass regain Lurkers if you have any TfB to feed them into (e.g. Forge a province, play Scroll, and then gain back 4 lurkers and the Scroll). If you have the draw/actions to support it, You can also gain 10 cards per shuffle via Lurking.
Something like Apprentice/Jeweled Egg to thin/gain Scroll. (Scroll -> gain Lurk -> gain scroll) x 10. Then Scroll -> Gain Apprenctice -> Lurk Scroll -> Apprentice on themselves for 5 cards, and punch through.
Shaman is really annoying. That said Enlarge is a nice complement to it. Trash a good card with enlarge before you gain your card, and then you avoid having to grab from the conveyor belt of garbage that is the Shaman train and get a nice +2 card to boot. Plus then your opponent has to take the crap you were avoiding.
Best pairing I could think of for each Trait:I agree with most but the following:
Island is obviously NOT the best card to pair it with, but it definitely gets nod for most improved as you said. Rebuild indeed is pretty obscene here. But I think the crown goes to Shepherd.
- Fawning Island - Provinces come with a card that can take it out of circulation while keeping the points. Great for golden decks. Sanctuary would also do this just as well but giving Island the nod for "most improved (and the 2 bonus VP)".
Edit: Also remembered Rebuild still exists. If you're playing Rebuild, more free Rebuilds as you're doing the thing is very powerful.
This interaction straight up does not work, due to Friendly activating in the Clean up phase. It is still fairly decent though. The best one is probably Groundskeeper.
- Friendly Village Green - You still get to meaningfully play it and gain another, great for a spammable card.
Eh, no. An Inspiring card likes Black Market on the board, but Inspiring on Black Market is obviously not that great. I think the winner is a Smithy variant, that gets the potiential to become a superlab. (it is nice on Knight though, as it prevents Knight collisions)
- Inspiring Black Market - Lots of chances to be non terminal. Knights would also be good.
Eh, no. An Inspiring card likes Black Market on the board, but Inspiring on Black Market is obviously not that great. I think the winner is a Smithy variant, that gets the potiential to become a superlab. (it is nice on Knight though, as it prevents Knight collisions)
Mandarin + Endless Chalice, which is the sort of thing that makes you realize why Mandarin is a deprecated card.
Yeah, if Mandarin had not been removed it would have been errata'd like Mint to not work on Durations. Problem solved.Mandarin + Endless Chalice, which is the sort of thing that makes you realize why Mandarin is a deprecated card.
If anything, I think it's the other way around, Endless Chalice exists because Mandarin was removed.
But since that's just a two-card combo, I actually don't think Mandarin would have stopped Donald X. from making Endless Chalice. But I do think that the influx of Treasure Durations is tied to the fact that he decided to remove (almost) all possibilities of moving them from play.
Would have been neat - and I think better for the game - if Durations being prematurely removed from play canceled their effects. Just a quick extra rulebook note that cards set aside with a cancelled Duration are discarded would cover 90% of the uncertainty about what happens with things like Haven.
The purpose of this thread is to highlight neat little interactions or synergies between two cards
"gainer" is a big enough category of cards that Gainer + Trail + Way of the Horse seems potentially useful.
Part of my dream was that these combos would appear in actual games of Dominion that were played. This probably means that they require only two cards to pull off. The odds of seeing three particular cards in a kingdom these days are extremely unlikely, and so they are much less useful. How much less useful? About 200 times less useful. Even requiring a village or additional draw or a category of cards to be useful is speculative.
Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.
This one was really kind of neat, although an extreme edge case. If you gain a Siren with a Sheepdog in hand and you are at the end of your draw pile you can gain it without trashing if the Siren ends up triggering a reshuffle.
I was wondering if it mattered whether you actually draw the Siren there, and it's easier than that. I just tested it online, and this works whenever the Sheepdog makes you shuffle the gained Siren into your deck--that's where the Siren loses track of itself. You don't have to draw the Siren from the Sheepdog effect, just shuffle the Siren into your deck with the Sheepdog effect.
I think this one actually now qualifies as a combo since any reshuffle triggers it, so I pulled it from the other thread.This one was really kind of neat, although an extreme edge case. If you gain a Siren with a Sheepdog in hand and you are at the end of your draw pile you can gain it without trashing if the Siren ends up triggering a reshuffle.
I was wondering if it mattered whether you actually draw the Siren there, and it's easier than that. I just tested it online, and this works whenever the Sheepdog makes you shuffle the gained Siren into your deck--that's where the Siren loses track of itself. You don't have to draw the Siren from the Sheepdog effect, just shuffle the Siren into your deck with the Sheepdog effect.
Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.
Similarly with Souk/Rush. Though in this case, you don't even need your deck/discard to be empty in order to autopile the Souks, you just need $7 and no cards in hand. Or even if you do have cards in hand but a bit more $, you can use the first Souks you gain to trash the cards in your hand, ensuring that the rest of them all make $7.
Souk/Gamble is pretty neat. If you have no cards in hand/deck/discard and at least $7, you can gain the entire Souk pile in one turn, and then the Souks are generally at least Golds for your Gamble deck and better if you get any Treasures or disappearing Actions in your hand.
Similarly with Souk/Rush. Though in this case, you don't even need your deck/discard to be empty in order to autopile the Souks, you just need $7 and no cards in hand. Or even if you do have cards in hand but a bit more $, you can use the first Souks you gain to trash the cards in your hand, ensuring that the rest of them all make $7.
Throw in any cost reduction, and you'll actually end up with more coins than you started with, too!
I had a rather amusing turn vs. the AI app a few days ago. (August 9, 2023 Daily Dominion).
Kingdom:
Pawn
Secluded Shrine
Swindler
Abundance
"Shy" Secret Passage
Courtier
Duke
Minion
Pendant
Torturer
Scrounge
The AI got quite a bit ahead of me in Province count, but I was able to strike back later with some nice Abundance/Scrounge combos to nab 6 Duchies and 6 Dukes, which brought me a nice victory.
The particular useful card interaction:
I even had a truly silly turn toward the end where had a Secluded Shrine, 3$, and 2 buys thanks to a Pawn, and the trash had no estates. I bought a copper, which allowed me to trash an Estate from my hand with the Secluded Shrine, and immediately got it back alongside the final Duchy with Scrounge.
Possession and Avoid allows you to essentially pull the best three cards (and any Possessions they may have) out of their deck for a mere 2 coins.
Possession and Avoid allows you to essentially pull the best three cards (and any Possessions they may have) out of their deck for a mere 2 coins.
And with enough Avoids, you just lock them out of the game by giving them a 0 card hand. Similar to the “trash everything” trick you can do with Possession.
Treasury and Villa allows you to return all of your treasuries to the top deck when you gain the Villa allowing you to get a VP card after you Villa and still keep all your Treasuries topdecked.