Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: XerxesPraelor on March 10, 2015, 02:04:16 pm
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Welcome to RMM 24 - Dominion: Adventures Mafia!
Mod: XerxesPraelor
Co-mod:
Signups:
1. Hydrad
2. Faust
3. Silverspawn
4. GreyICE
5. xpittip
6. Seprix
7. Jimmmm
8. witherweaver
9. LibraryAdventurer
10. Awalcus
11. Ichimaru Gin
Subsitute(s):
Spectators:
Rules:
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play.
Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless specifically allowed. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
4. All players are required to confirm that they are still playing to the moderator each night through a personal message. Night will not end until all players have confirmed that they are still playing.
2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once a simple majority has been reached no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mods lock the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight. When a lynch occurs, their alignment and dominion card are revealed and the game will proceed to the night phase.
4. Days will last 9 days and Nights will last 2 days.
5. If the day deadline has been reached without a lynch the day will proceed immediately to night with no lynch occuring.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post. Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post. The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
11. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post. Mods will not edit posts for you.
3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, colored text is reserved for the Mods. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography. [/color]
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Subsitutions will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis by the moderator. If you do not wish to continue playing the game, do not post this in thread, instead send a personal message to the moderator.
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This is an mostly-open Role Madness Mafia setup based on the Worm Web Serial. The players will take the role of members of the secret organization Cauldron who are dedicated to saving the world from destruction. At their disposal are various vials of potion, each of which will grant a uniquely powerful superpower.
-There will be three extremists (mafia) and eight experimenters (town).
-At the beginning flavor names will be completely arbitrary.
-Each night, three vials will be distributed amongst the living players randomly, two chosen by consensus, one chosen and held back by the mafia.
-Each group of town will have a choice between three different vials to choose from, and will know the exact capabilities of the superpowers they will grant.
-All roles will be original, but generally simple.
THIS IS A CLOSED SETUP SIMILAR TO THE ABOVE.
NO GUARANTEES!
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Does nobody think of writing up their setup post first and just posting it right after they post the thread?
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/in
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/in
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-Each night, three vials will be distributed amongst the living players randomly, two chosen by consensus, one chosen and held back by the mafia.
-Each group of town will have a choice between three different vials to choose from, and will know the exact capabilities of the superpowers they will grant.
I don't understand these two lines.
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Town+scum will be separated in some way into two groups.
Each night, I will give each group (including scum) the choice of 3 vials. Whichever they choose I will assign to a random member. Whoever gets the vial gets a PR.
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Are the vials the same for all three groups? If yes, can more than one group choose the same vial?
Will the vial chosen by the scum group also be assigned randomly to a scum player, or will scum choose who gets it?
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I really need a new game. /in
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What is this madness. How did awaclus get ahead of me? This game is rigged.
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/tag
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Too goofy for me. /tag
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Man, I thought this was going to be "Worms Mafia". That would be awesome. Some players get a Holy Hand Grenade, others a Concrete Donkey... I might want a spot in the BM queue now.
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I can retheme this as Black Market (Dominion) Mafia if nobody recognizes the theme.
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I can retheme this as Black Market (Dominion) Mafia if nobody recognizes the theme.
I don't recognize the theme, but I don't really mind.
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/in
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Love Worm.
/in
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Love Worm.
/in
Welcome to the forum games! Make sure to make the civility pledge. It's in the mafia-games subforum.
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Done!
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/in
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/innnnnnn
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Is it okay with everyone if I change the flavor (and mechanics) to Dominion: Adventures? I think it actually fits many of the roles much better.
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Is it okay with everyone if I change the flavor (and mechanics) to Dominion: Adventures? I think it actually fits many of the roles much better.
Never. It is your game and you can't do anything to change it. Wait.....
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Changed.
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Dominion Adventures! I want to play that.
Um.
Do I have time to play Mafia? Maybe.
/in
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Sure
/in
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/in for my first forum mafia game
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gl hf! unless I'm town and your scum. then I hope you lose.
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also XP i do appreciate how you moved awaclus down.
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someone should hammer
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/in whoooooooooooooooo!
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Dance dance dance. The Mafia begins.
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I'm going to start as soon as the setup is finalized and I have written flavor. From Wednesday to Saturday, I will be VLA, so I need someone to do the vote counts.
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PMs going out soon!
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/tag
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Day 1 Start!
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Vote Count 0.0
Not Voting: Hydrad, Faust, Silverspawn, GreyICE, xxpittip, Seprix, Jimmmm, witherweaver, LibraryAdventurer, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
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first!
Hmm. Quite a few people I've never played with before. How about vote: GreyICE.
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Oh its starting already! hurrah!
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Adventures! :D
Vote: GreyICE
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Vote: Library
Its pick on the new people game!
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wooh a new game!
time to read the setup.
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The setup is more like a rough guideline now I think. I didn't read it though because I'm town.
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vote: IG
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Fun fun fun. :)
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so, first thing to talk about: Jimmmm either townslipped pretty hard in the QT, or he made a pretty bold fake. what do you think about it?
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I believe him. I had the same idea at first or thought it was just a couple people. I didn't think it was everyone at first so its a understandable mistake.
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so, first thing to talk about: Jimmmm either townslipped pretty hard in the QT, or he made a pretty bold fake. what do you think about it?
I nearly Townslipped more, but thought better of it. I didn't think what I ended up saying was that much of a Townslip, but maybe it is.
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so, first thing to talk about: Jimmmm either townslipped pretty hard in the QT, or he made a pretty bold fake. what do you think about it?
I nearly Townslipped more, but thought better of it. I didn't think what I ended up saying was that much of a Townslip, but maybe it is.
are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about your first post. That's pretty clearly either a townslip or a fake
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so, first thing to talk about: Jimmmm either townslipped pretty hard in the QT, or he made a pretty bold fake. what do you think about it?
I nearly Townslipped more, but thought better of it. I didn't think what I ended up saying was that much of a Townslip, but maybe it is.
are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about your first post. That's pretty clearly either a townslip or a fake
Oh crap. Haha. Yep.
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I believe him. I had the same idea at first or thought it was just a couple people. I didn't think it was everyone at first so its a understandable mistake.
Yeah, pretty much this.
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Adventures! :D
Vote: GreyICE
OH MY GAWD! YOU SUCK
Nah, you town.
Vote: Seprix
No voting? Scum claim already. Plus, if we lynch Seprix day 1, he can stream more. Scum lynch, more streaming? Win? Win.
Come on friends.
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Seeing as we may as well vote randomly on day 1, I'll say Vote: Faust. I heard he summons demons.
In any case, I don't case about streaming. I much rather play than watch someone else play.
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Seeing as we may as well vote randomly on day 1, I'll say Vote: Faust. I heard he summons demons.
In any case, I don't case about streaming. I much rather play than watch someone else play.
Interesting. You don't believe that you can learn people's alignments on day 1? You believe that all voting is random?
Do tell me more.
Vote: LibraryAdventurer
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I know a bit about Library's history experience with Mafia. What's yours GreyICE?
PPE: lulz
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Interesting.
I like this guy already.
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A little in person, four years on MafiaScum. Probably 40-50 games of forum mafia, all told. Maybe higher.
Scum on day 1 is a very easy thing. Witness, I shall demonstrate. I'm already voting for some.
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
Also, I think we should move all discussion to this thread rather than the QT. Everyone sees both, so there is no advantage to either, except that it's more familiar / pretty this way. I'd also like to discuss the cards a little bit more before hammering Page.
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How could you know about my history with mafia? I've never played online before.
You can vote for more than one person at the same time?
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Also, I had forgotten that Pit is in this game. Vote: Pit
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How could you know about my history with mafia? I've never played online before.
You can vote for more than one person at the same time?
I just meant the bit you told us from your thread on the subject.
You can only vote for one person at a time.
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oh. ok. That's what I thought, but Grey voted for two people already.
And I only said Day 1 voting is pretty much random. And now that I think about it, I was mistaken.
IRL, we don't usually discuss much on day 1 unless there was a night kill before the first day.
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Yeah, I don't find your post especially scummy. Here, we usually have RVS, but it only lasts for a short while (the shorter the better imo).
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'kay, not a big person on theory analysis. Distracts from scumhunting.
Why we are not doing Lost City - 1-shot Bulletproof could be slightly better than a 1-shot doctor. But it doesn't work the night you gift it, meaning we can't protect power roles, and the scum get a nifty power if we do this, and it's really mediocre if we use it on a moderate town read (because strong town reads are likely to be shot) - the scum can just not shoot them anyway. The Chancellor of cards here.
Why we are not doing Magpie - it's a complex role game. Who is even to know what roles are scum and which are town? If you target scum, they might even be a goon, since the theme is "buying cards/gaining powers". If you target town, it's a net waste of time and shit. And the target will know they've been targeted, since their power is stolen, meaning it's like a bad rolecop. I dub it "first turn village"
Why we are doing Page - Bodyguard, good. Vigilante, good. 50% Cop, fucking EXCELLENT (sooooo goood). Bulletproof, good. This role is like 5/2 Montebank/Chapel.
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oh. ok. That's what I thought, but Grey voted for two people already.
And I only said Day 1 voting is pretty much random. And now that I think about it, I was mistaken.
IRL, we don't usually discuss much on day 1 unless there was a night kill before the first day.
Random, eh? You don't think you can read scum from motivational tells? That it is impossible to tell scumhunting from blending in? That the only especial strategy of mafia is to navigate the night game?
We're on a board game site. Is the night game... especially compelling? Overall Munchkin has more complex play than your average night game of mafia. What do you find the draw of this random and simplistic game?
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About the cards: don't forget that scum may get the card we choose, so a weaker one with particularly bad scum utility may be preferable to the strongest one.
I'll try to go through each one. Not quoting them because we aren't allowed to for some reason.
Lost City
Town utility: a delayed permanent doctor. Pretty strong.
Mafia utility: Depends on our powers - does town have vigs? Probably not high, however it also mentions an explicit advantage for scum, which they will get no matter what.
Magpie
This is weird. Not that useful, because if you hit town you just move powers around within our faction - unless the factional kill counts as a "role", which I don't think it does (but I'll ask). Pretty high scum utility too.
Page
Bodyguard, Vig, informed Neighborhood, bulletproof. This is useful, but note that we give scum an additional kill if they get this. I'm inclined to agree that this is the best option, but I still wouldn't take it just now.
PPE 4
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The best part of Page is that it works no matter if we give it to town or scum. We tell them (anonymously) who to vig. They don't listen, we kill em. The cop is 100% confirmable, one person in the neighborhood is guaranteed to be town. It's made of win. The bulletproof doesn't even matter if its on scum, we have the lynch.
Like... it's almost better on scum. That's hilarious.
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Wait, scum get a bonus kill if we choose page? I don't see that.
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I think he just means the N2 vig ability.
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Wait, scum get a bonus kill if we choose page? I don't see that.
no, the vig is the bonus kill
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Wait, scum get a bonus kill if we choose page? I don't see that.
no, the vig is the bonus kill
Oh that's easy. It's a town power, it's not like it's their role or something. We hand them out, we tell them how it's used. They decide to use it as a bonus scum kill, they get to dance a merry jig from the nearest tree. I'll trade 1 town for 1 scum all week, and twice on Tuesdays.
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But wouldn't that require the person who received Page to claim and out themselves?
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The best part of Page is that it works no matter if we give it to town or scum. We tell them (anonymously) who to vig. They don't listen, we kill em. The cop is 100% confirmable, one person in the neighborhood is guaranteed to be town. It's made of win. The bulletproof doesn't even matter if its on scum, we have the lynch.
Like... it's almost better on scum. That's hilarious.
note that we can only redirect his power if we know who got the power. If scum gets it and just doesn't claim, we can't do anything. Though in this case he is dead once the neighborhood kicks in. But that takes 3 days.
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
Library, GreyICE?
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To lynch them for it? Probably. Or a role cop to catch who gets what card. With cards being an entire mechanic, well, scum can see how badly they want to have claimed not to get a card. All up to them of course.
Really, all things said, it's probably an 8:3 or 9:2? 8:3 is pretty terrible for town, so we'd need sick power roles, so scum should fear our power. 9:2 this could frankly be almost vanilla and balanced (11:2 vanilla is balanced) but then our odds of getting the power are actually really good.
Pedit: "Woo town!" is not a town slip.
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And I only said Day 1 voting is pretty much random. And now that I think about it, I was mistaken.
IRL, we don't usually discuss much on day 1 unless there was a night kill before the first day.
Random, eh? You don't think you can read scum from motivational tells? That it is impossible to tell scumhunting from blending in? That the only especial strategy of mafia is to navigate the night game?
We're on a board game site. Is the night game... especially compelling? Overall Munchkin has more complex play than your average night game of mafia. What do you find the draw of this random and simplistic game?
I don't know what you're saying. I was talking about in real life mafia. When you know the people playing well (like we do when I play IRL), you get more information from a night kill before the first day than you do from chatting on the first day without a night kill. Also, I like Munchkin. It don't compare to Dominion, but it's still fun.
About the townslip? He gave away that he's probably town. Not much to say about it.
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Pedit: "Woo town!" is not a town slip.
"Woo town!" itself is not a town slip, but his later post about not having noticed that the QT was public makes it one.
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Not being able to edit posts is slightly embarrassing. Everyone gets to see all my typos.
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Really? When you know the people and are playing in person, you learn more from the night than the day? See, I might not play much in-person mafia, but I play a LOT of Resistance. And the more you know the person, the more you realize the stylistic differences between good and evil they have.
So is it possible for me to read you off your play?
Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
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Not being able to edit posts is slightly embarrassing. Everyone gets to see all my typos.
No worries! My post about you earlier had a typo. I actually meant to replace either history or experience, but I left them both in by mistake.
PPE: 1
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
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It really matters not.
for some reason this sentence reminds me of yoda
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
In a word, yes. Not noticing an announcement in a QT during a complex game is more indicative of personality than anything else. I might say mild town.
May I ask what the utility is in talking about town reads? It seems like an exercise in target selection to me. Are you concerned you might need to use a night kill on him and hoping to avoid it?
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Really? When you know the people and are playing in person, you learn more from the night than the day? See, I might not play much in-person mafia, but I play a LOT of Resistance. And the more you know the person, the more you realize the stylistic differences between good and evil they have.
I just don't know what there is to say on day 1. If there's a night kill we speculate who would've chosen to kill that person. If not, well, what are we going to talk about day 1 except random accusations? It's true about stylistic differences between town/mafia, but that doesn't really come out on day 1.
PS: What does 'PPE: 1' mean?
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Really? When you know the people and are playing in person, you learn more from the night than the day? See, I might not play much in-person mafia, but I play a LOT of Resistance. And the more you know the person, the more you realize the stylistic differences between good and evil they have.
I just don't know what there is to say on day 1. If there's a night kill we speculate who would've chosen to kill that person. If not, well, what are we going to talk about day 1 except random accusations? It's true about stylistic differences between town/mafia, but that doesn't really come out on day 1.
Is that so?
Well then, why is the town better off if Faust is dead?
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
In a word, yes. Not noticing an announcement in a QT during a complex game is more indicative of personality than anything else. I might say mild town.
May I ask what the utility is in talking about town reads? It seems like an exercise in target selection to me. Are you concerned you might need to use a night kill on him and hoping to avoid it?
If you believe his town slip, he's an IC, which is a big deal. If you think it's fabricated, that makes him scum, which is an even bigger deal. If you think both is equally likely, then it can be less important.
The other reason why I like to bring it up is that I found dealing with supposed town slips one of the most stressful things as scum. Both fighting it and not fighting it is scary, and it's overall frustrating, which makes reactions to it quite telling
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I just don't know what there is to say on day 1. If there's a night kill we speculate who would've chosen to kill that person. If not, well, what are we going to talk about day 1 except random accusations? It's true about stylistic differences between town/mafia, but that doesn't really come out on day 1.
Is that so?
Well then, why is the town better off if Faust is dead?
<shrug> I did mention random accusations didn't I? Do you have a compelling argument to lynch anyone in particular?
I always think it's funny that town lynches someone day 1 before mafia has killed anyone. The town doesn't even know yet that there's mafia in town, we're just decide to lynch someone for the heck of it.
Because of that, when I moderate (which is occationally, but not often), I always give gory evidence in the storytelling that there's mafia in town so they have a reason to lynch someone.
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<shrug> I did mention random accusations didn't I? Do you have a compelling argument to lynch anyone in particular?
I always think it's funny that town lynches someone day 1 before mafia has killed anyone. The town doesn't even know yet that there's mafia in town, we're just decide to lynch someone for the heck of it.
Because of that, when I moderate (which is occationally, but not often), I always give gory evidence in the storytelling that there's mafia in town so they have a reason to lynch someone.
Yes, you did go out of your way to mention your vote was explicitly random. I did notice exactly that. I'm working on a compelling reason, by the by.
What do you think of Silver's reasoning above me as to why he's trying to sort out the town slip?
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I agree with what he said. Except I don't know what IC means.
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I agree with what he said. Except I don't know what IC means.
Innocent Child, a role that's confirmed town.
So overall do you think it was a town slip?
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Really? When you know the people and are playing in person, you learn more from the night than the day? See, I might not play much in-person mafia, but I play a LOT of Resistance. And the more you know the person, the more you realize the stylistic differences between good and evil they have.
I just don't know what there is to say on day 1. If there's a night kill we speculate who would've chosen to kill that person. If not, well, what are we going to talk about day 1 except random accusations? It's true about stylistic differences between town/mafia, but that doesn't really come out on day 1.
PS: What does 'PPE: 1' mean?
PPE: 1 means pre post edit. So when you hit the post button and it says there have been lets say 3 replys since you started replying you can say
PPE: 3 which means 3 new posts have appeared since you posted.
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
In a word, yes. Not noticing an announcement in a QT during a complex game is more indicative of personality than anything else. I might say mild town.
May I ask what the utility is in talking about town reads? It seems like an exercise in target selection to me. Are you concerned you might need to use a night kill on him and hoping to avoid it?
If you believe his town slip, he's an IC, which is a big deal. If you think it's fabricated, that makes him scum, which is an even bigger deal. If you think both is equally likely, then it can be less important.
The other reason why I like to bring it up is that I found dealing with supposed town slips one of the most stressful things as scum. Both fighting it and not fighting it is scary, and it's overall frustrating, which makes reactions to it quite telling
I don't think that fabricating a town slip necessarily means that you're scum. You can also fabricate a town slip as town.
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
Haven't you developed a not-so-random habit of being lynched day 1 as scum? :P
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I don't think that fabricating a town slip necessarily means that you're scum. You can also fabricate a town slip as town.
that's a very awaclus-y thing to say
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
Haven't you developed a not-so-random habit of being lynched day 1 as scum? :P
True theres also the third option where the person thats scum is bad and keeps getting found out right away. Its a miracle I've won any scum games.
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
Haven't you developed a not-so-random habit of being lynched day 1 as scum? :P
True theres also the third option where the person thats scum is bad and keeps getting found out right away. Its a miracle I've won any scum games.
What about this game?
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
Haven't you developed a not-so-random habit of being lynched day 1 as scum? :P
True theres also the third option where the person thats scum is bad and keeps getting found out right away. Its a miracle I've won any scum games.
What about this game?
This game I'm homefree pretty much. Its weird a part of me wants to be scum again to try and get better at it. Then a part of me is super relieved that I'm town and don't have to worry as much.
Also before anyone comments on it ya ton of WIFOM.
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also probably for the first 2-3 days its kinda random and you have nothing to go off each other. sometimes though someone will say something odd or just have odd behavior so that we can start building cases day one. Usually those cases are on really small things but the importent thing to look at is who is going for the lynches and who doesn't like the lynches.
Haven't you developed a not-so-random habit of being lynched day 1 as scum? :P
True theres also the third option where the person thats scum is bad and keeps getting found out right away. Its a miracle I've won any scum games.
What about this game?
This game I'm homefree pretty much. Its weird a part of me wants to be scum again to try and get better at it. Then a part of me is super relieved that I'm town and don't have to worry as much.
Also before anyone comments on it ya ton of WIFOM.
feeling the need to point this out is scummy. vote: Hydrad
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and the first serious vote has been given!
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Actually that was a few pages back. I don't mind being second though.
Vote: Hydrad
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So hey.
Vote: LibraryAdventurer is mandatory. The avatar is just too similar.
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Well, actually. I believe in Jimmmmm's townslip, and his reaction to it looks townie as well... I mean, the game started right away, right? Not much time for scum to plan this out.
Also, I really don't feel good about GreyICE spilling our options publicly. Vote: GreyICE
Cool, two posts and voted for both newbies. You're very welcome!
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So I take it that both GreyICE and LibraryAdventurer are experienced players, right? I'll also call GreyICE just Grey for now, because capital letters are annoying.
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Damn, I forgot to vote for silverspawn!
Vote: silverspawn
The reason for my vote is obviously Futuramafia.
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Vote Count 1.0
Silverspawn(1): Awaclus
greyICE(3): IG, Jimmmmm, Faust
Hydrad(2): GreyICE, Silverspawn
LibraryAdventurer(1): Hydrad
Not Voting: xxpittip, Seprix, witherweaver, LibraryAdventurer
edit: no
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oh? do I need to be more specific then Library when I'm voting?
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oh? do I need to be more specific then Library when I'm voting?
My avatar is a library as well!
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Pedit: "Woo town!" is not a town slip.
Yeah, I also don't like this.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61067329.jpg)
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I'm pretty much treating you as IC for now.
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GreyICE, justify your Town read on me.
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Vote: witherweaver because he's the last one who hasn't written anything yet.
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You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
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Oh, I have a QT. But so does everyone else. Mafia is allover.
Vote: Everyone
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I haven't read anything by the way, including the setup, the QT, or the posts except that last vote for me.
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But then I can't be scum, because I would have read something. So I'm claiming Vanilla Notscum.
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so, first thing to talk about: Jimmmm either townslipped pretty hard in the QT, or he made a pretty bold fake. what do you think about it?
It doesn't look to me like Jimmm slipped anything.
But if Silver is scum then Jimmm is town, like forsures.
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'kay, not a big person on theory analysis. Distracts from scumhunting.
Why we are not doing Lost City - 1-shot Bulletproof could be slightly better than a 1-shot doctor. But it doesn't work the night you gift it, meaning we can't protect power roles, and the scum get a nifty power if we do this, and it's really mediocre if we use it on a moderate town read (because strong town reads are likely to be shot) - the scum can just not shoot them anyway. The Chancellor of cards here.
Why we are not doing Magpie - it's a complex role game. Who is even to know what roles are scum and which are town? If you target scum, they might even be a goon, since the theme is "buying cards/gaining powers". If you target town, it's a net waste of time and shit. And the target will know they've been targeted, since their power is stolen, meaning it's like a bad rolecop. I dub it "first turn village"
Why we are doing Page - Bodyguard, good. Vigilante, good. 50% Cop, fucking EXCELLENT (sooooo goood). Bulletproof, good. This role is like 5/2 Montebank/Chapel.
Preemptive "What I'm about to do is scummy, but I'm showing you I have reservations, so clearly I'm not scum".
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
I think it's not towny and not scummy. It's completely null.
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Does "Distributed to a random player" mean both town and scum can get it?
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Does "Distributed to a random player" mean both town and scum can get it?
Okay, he answered in the QT. So that's kind of bad if scum gets it. Page is still probably the better choice.
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The best part of Page is that it works no matter if we give it to town or scum. We tell them (anonymously) who to vig. They don't listen, we kill em. The cop is 100% confirmable, one person in the neighborhood is guaranteed to be town. It's made of win. The bulletproof doesn't even matter if its on scum, we have the lynch.
Like... it's almost better on scum. That's hilarious.
Well won't know who has Page until.. Day 4?
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Really? When you know the people and are playing in person, you learn more from the night than the day? See, I might not play much in-person mafia, but I play a LOT of Resistance. And the more you know the person, the more you realize the stylistic differences between good and evil they have.
So is it possible for me to read you off your play?
Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
What is he town for?
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
In a word, yes. Not noticing an announcement in a QT during a complex game is more indicative of personality than anything else. I might say mild town.
May I ask what the utility is in talking about town reads? It seems like an exercise in target selection to me. Are you concerned you might need to use a night kill on him and hoping to avoid it?
If you believe his town slip, he's an IC, which is a big deal. If you think it's fabricated, that makes him scum, which is an even bigger deal. If you think both is equally likely, then it can be less important.
The other reason why I like to bring it up is that I found dealing with supposed town slips one of the most stressful things as scum. Both fighting it and not fighting it is scary, and it's overall frustrating, which makes reactions to it quite telling
Tentative town on Silver.
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Well, actually. I believe in Jimmmmm's townslip, and his reaction to it looks townie as well... I mean, the game started right away, right? Not much time for scum to plan this out.
Also, I really don't feel good about GreyICE spilling our options publicly. Vote: GreyICE
Cool, two posts and voted for both newbies. You're very welcome!
Publicly? What, do you have a QT with him alone or something?
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(Robzimage)
This is more likely a town thing.
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Jimmmm townslipping seems more likely now.
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Well, actually. I believe in Jimmmmm's townslip, and his reaction to it looks townie as well... I mean, the game started right away, right? Not much time for scum to plan this out.
Also, I really don't feel good about GreyICE spilling our options publicly. Vote: GreyICE
Cool, two posts and voted for both newbies. You're very welcome!
Publicly? What, do you have a QT with him alone or something?
Well, it has like half the players in it. It's not inconceivable that all scum are in one QT. And anyway, I don't see what good it does for the information to be available to everyone.
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I only have one QT.
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And all the information here laid out here is also in there, and everyone is in there, so I don't see how he spoiled anything.
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Vote: LibraryAdventurer
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I only have one QT.
Okay... I got confused there somewhere? I thought we would be like split into two subgroups, each choosing something? If that's not the case, why have the QT at all?
Well, fine then, unvote for now.
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I think maybe because the setup changed? XP said something about there originally being different groups somewhere.
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GreyICE, justify your Town read on me.
Your very first post of the game. You vote without reason as second on me, a player new to yoy, to see what I do. You do this with no fanfare, trumpets, or chest beating, because you're curious about me. Obvious town motivation. Pretty sure you were my first town read.
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That looks like standard RVS around here.
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That looks like standard RVS around here.
RVS is some of the most information heavy parts of the game. Especially with players who don't believe it has much information.
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That looks like standard RVS around here.
RVS is some of the most information heavy parts of the game. Especially with players who don't believe it has much information.
Eh... I disagree. You may not know site meta, but voting new players is a very common thing here.
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Nevertheless, I like the reasoning.
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Some more on theory:
Thinking about Page some more, I'm starting to have doubts. My main problem is that this is a 11-player game. Page doesn't end resolving until N4. The game can very well be over by then. Let's see:
- after N1, 9 players are left alive
- after N2 (compulsory bodyguard), 6 players are alive
- after N3 (Cop ability), 4 players are alive
So yeah, the semi-cop is really meh, because it hardly reduces the lynchpool. The card speeds up the game, and since I think we'll be getting powers every day, that might not be what we want. Assuming 1 lynch/1 kill, it doesn't even grant an extra town-controlled kill. Welp. This is much weaker than it seemed initially. And if we mislynch twice and this goes into scum hands, it's game over.
Lost City may be good for the same reasons: It prolongs the game, meaning more powers come into play. Also the benefit should scum get it is much weaker. It's bad that we don't really know what it does to scum though, or it would be much easier to evaluate. The fact that we don't know about the benefit makes the benefit stronger by itself.
Magpie is a stronger rolecop, which can be useful for both town and scum.
...I'm starting to wonder whether we might be better off not buy a card at all.
What happens if no card has reached a majority before the day ends?
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Adventures! :D
Vote: GreyICE
OH MY GAWD! YOU SUCK
Nah, you town.
Vote: Seprix
Lol, no one watches my streams though. :p
No voting? Scum claim already. Plus, if we lynch Seprix day 1, he can stream more. Scum lynch, more streaming? Win? Win.
Come on friends.
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^ that is why I hate posting on a phone.
"lol no one watches my stream though"
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Pedit: Silver, he's town but not for that. It really matters not. Knowing who we aren't lynching today isn't much worth discussion. There's 10 people we ain't lynching today. Only one we are.
so, in other words, you don't give him towncred for it, but you also don't think it's scummy?
In a word, yes. Not noticing an announcement in a QT during a complex game is more indicative of personality than anything else. I might say mild town.
May I ask what the utility is in talking about town reads? It seems like an exercise in target selection to me. Are you concerned you might need to use a night kill on him and hoping to avoid it?
If you believe his town slip, he's an IC, which is a big deal. If you think it's fabricated, that makes him scum, which is an even bigger deal. If you think both is equally likely, then it can be less important.
So he's either scum or not scum?
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GreyICE, justify your Town read on me.
Your very first post of the game. You vote without reason as second on me, a player new to yoy, to see what I do. You do this with no fanfare, trumpets, or chest beating, because you're curious about me. Obvious town motivation. Pretty sure you were my first town read.
Lol, I like this guy. He thinks he can read people :) maybe he even can. :D then again, it could all be a scum ploy to look towny. It's what I would do after all. Anyways, work beckons to me. This is all I have time to post for now, but I will be back in about 6 hours.
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
I think it's not towny and not scummy. It's completely null.
Vote: xxpittip
I really don't like these kinds of statements.
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Actually vote: Seprix after what just happened in the QT.
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
I think it's not towny and not scummy. It's completely null.
Vote: xxpittip
I really don't like these kinds of statements.
Doesn't sound like a scum tell for pit though.
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Is card buying hammerable, or is it just the majority when the Day ends?
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Is card buying hammerable, or is it just the majority when the Day ends?
Xerxes' post implies hammerable, and the voting syntax does as well.
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I'd like to hear everyone's opinions about the townslip.
I think it's not towny and not scummy. It's completely null.
Vote: xxpittip
I really don't like these kinds of statements.
Doesn't sound like a scum tell for pit though.
Hrm. I don't think I've played a game with him yet. But I guess in that case I get why he's constantly mislynched.
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Can someone explain to me why we should discuss anything in the QT rather than this thread? Do you think theory talk distracts from scumhunting?
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Can someone explain to me why we should discuss anything in the QT rather than this thread? Do you think theory talk distracts from scumhunting?
DING DING DING
Get this man a door prize
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Can someone explain to me why we should discuss anything in the QT rather than this thread? Do you think theory talk distracts from scumhunting?
I agree we should keep most discussion to this thread. It's a pain to keeping track and talk in two threads in the same game at the same time.
By 'theory talk', don't you mean dicussing who we think is mafia/not mafia? If so, what the difference between that and 'scumhunting'.
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Can someone explain to me why we should discuss anything in the QT rather than this thread? Do you think theory talk distracts from scumhunting?
I agree we should keep most discussion to this thread. It's a pain to keeping track and talk in two threads in the same game at the same time.
By 'theory talk', don't you mean dicussing who we think is mafia/not mafia? If so, what the difference between that and 'scumhunting'.
Theory talk is neutral setup discussion. Like "I think that we should buy page because X, Y, Z" etc.
Doesn't contribute to finding mafia in any way, easy to do as mafia because you're not even faking anything you're just discussing the setup objectively, great way to "contribute" lots without actually saying anything, distracts townies from the only thing that matters - dead scum.
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I agree we should keep most discussion to this thread. It's a pain to keeping track and talk in two threads in the same game at the same time.
By 'theory talk', don't you mean dicussing who we think is mafia/not mafia? If so, what the difference between that and 'scumhunting'.
Theory talk is neutral setup discussion. Like "I think that we should buy page because X, Y, Z" etc.
Doesn't contribute to finding mafia in any way, easy to do as mafia because you're not even faking anything you're just discussing the setup objectively, great way to "contribute" lots without actually saying anything, distracts townies from the only thing that matters - dead scum.
OK, I see what you mean that it can be distracting. At the same time, it's not as separate as you're implying. Mafia are likely to vote for the card that would help the town less and give a benefit to them, so scumhunting can be involved in dicussing which card to buy.
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Can someone explain to me why we should discuss anything in the QT rather than this thread? Do you think theory talk distracts from scumhunting?
I agree we should keep most discussion to this thread. It's a pain to keeping track and talk in two threads in the same game at the same time.
By 'theory talk', don't you mean dicussing who we think is mafia/not mafia? If so, what the difference between that and 'scumhunting'.
Theory talk is neutral setup discussion. Like "I think that we should buy page because X, Y, Z" etc.
Doesn't contribute to finding mafia in any way, easy to do as mafia because you're not even faking anything you're just discussing the setup objectively, great way to "contribute" lots without actually saying anything, distracts townies from the only thing that matters - dead scum.
It does contribute to finding mafia though. If your theory talk is useful, then it leads to town making better decisions (such as buying Page or whatever the best decision is), which ultimately makes it more likely that the scum will be found before the game is over. If it's not useful, then it's scummy, which is worth noting and might contribute towards your correct lynch (or your mislynch but then it's not great for town).
I agree we should keep most discussion to this thread. It's a pain to keeping track and talk in two threads in the same game at the same time.
By 'theory talk', don't you mean dicussing who we think is mafia/not mafia? If so, what the difference between that and 'scumhunting'.
Theory talk is neutral setup discussion. Like "I think that we should buy page because X, Y, Z" etc.
Doesn't contribute to finding mafia in any way, easy to do as mafia because you're not even faking anything you're just discussing the setup objectively, great way to "contribute" lots without actually saying anything, distracts townies from the only thing that matters - dead scum.
OK, I see what you mean that it can be distracting. At the same time, it's not as separate as you're implying. Mafia are likely to vote for the card that would help the town less and give a benefit to them, so scumhunting can be involved in dicussing which card to buy.
Not necessarily. While it can be beneficial for scum to manipulate the theory talk in a way that hurts town, it's also beneficial to make super pro-town decisions as scum in order to appear towny. On the other hand, an incredibly useful theory talk poster can just as well be legit town, and someone who votes for bad cards can be a townie who's just making a mistake.
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Vote Awaclus
Four posts. Nothing you couldn't say in the discussion of "what is forum mafia". More WIFOM than a wine bar.
I don't think that fabricating a town slip necessarily means that you're scum. You can also fabricate a town slip as town.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
What does this even mean?
What. Does. This. Mean.
How does it contribute to the thread? Why are all your "contributions" like this?
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Vote Awaclus
Four posts. Nothing you couldn't say in the discussion of "what is forum mafia". More WIFOM than a wine bar.
I don't think that fabricating a town slip necessarily means that you're scum. You can also fabricate a town slip as town.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
What does this even mean?
What. Does. This. Mean.
How does it contribute to the thread? Why are all your "contributions" like this?
Hey. Don't be a butt. :p
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>:(
Come vote him with me, Seprix. We had one fluff post, an RVS vote a page after RVS ended, and two pieces of commentary that merely said "some things could be townie. But they could be scummy".
This is a good vote, you know it.
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I like it
Vote: Awaclus
This could also say Vote: LibraryAdventurer, but it doesn't.
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Vote Awaclus
Four posts. Nothing you couldn't say in the discussion of "what is forum mafia". More WIFOM than a wine bar.
I don't think that fabricating a town slip necessarily means that you're scum. You can also fabricate a town slip as town.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
What does this even mean?
What. Does. This. Mean.
How does it contribute to the thread? Why are all your "contributions" like this?
That vote doesn't count, it needs to follow the syntax vote: Awaclus (with the colon).
This is an RMM game, and it is my meta to lurk in RMMs as town to some extent.
It's convenient to take my posts out of their original contexts and point out how I'm just saying "some things could be scummy or towny" and how that isn't contributing to the thread, but these posts have been in response to other people who have failed to acknowledge the fact that the thing could be done by both of the factions. The post you quoted here was a response to silverspawn, whose post assumed that "fabricated townslip → scum". I felt like it was worth pointing out that this assumption was false.
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
Granted, 4-liners are pretty long for my town meta, but I've had them before. And it was not fluff, I was correcting the factual mistakes that other people had posted.
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Awaclus and LA are talking the sense. Setup discussion does help in finding scum, which is why we should have all discussion entirely in this thread.
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
Granted, 4-liners are pretty long for my town meta, but I've had them before. And it was not fluff, I was correcting the factual mistakes that other people had posted.
I was referring to
(snipped theory talk about theory talk)
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It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
Granted, 4-liners are pretty long for my town meta, but I've had them before. And it was not fluff, I was correcting the factual mistakes that other people had posted.
I was referring to
(snipped theory talk about theory talk)
...which is the post where I wrote 4 lines about how the people I quoted were wrong, yes.
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Which part of this is not clear?
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16948609/difficult%20post.png)
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So I was thrown off by your use of "factual".
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It's not clear how those each fit on one line on your monitor!
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Okay, see, here's this funny thing I want to share. When people say "I wasn't scummy, I was playing exactly to my meta", would you be surprised to learn my desire to lynch them actually increases?
Do you know why that is? It's because town says "I wasn't scummy, I was doing X". Scum says "it was meta, you can't touch me nya nya".
But it turns out? I can.
Vote: Awaclus - Am I doing it right?
NB: It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong about THEORY. We could have that discussion with no role PMs and no game going on.
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Anyway, what is clear is that it's fluff.
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Okay, see, here's this funny thing I want to share. When people say "I wasn't scummy, I was playing exactly to my meta", would you be surprised to learn my desire to lynch them actually increases?
Do you know why that is? It's because town says "I wasn't scummy, I was doing X". Scum says "it was meta, you can't touch me nya nya".
But it turns out? I can.
Vote: Awaclus - Am I doing it right?
NB: It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong about THEORY. We could have that discussion with no role PMs and no game going on.
It is my town meta to say that it something is my town meta.
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Well, that is true. Also trivial to replicate, so not very useful. (See: Ichi's meta.)
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Vote: Awaclus - Am I doing it right?
NB: It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong about THEORY. We could have that discussion with no role PMs and no game going on.
It is my town meta to say that it something is my town meta.
Haha
Vote: Awaclus
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Well, that is true. Also trivial to replicate, so not very useful. (See: Ichi's meta.)
You can say that it's trivial, but it's really super hard! I always end up explaining my votes, or perhaps even building cases, and generally being a somewhat reasonable player whenever I'm scum even though I'm trying my best.
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Well, that is true. Also trivial to replicate, so not very useful. (See: Ichi's meta.)
You can say that it's trivial, but it's really super hard! I always end up explaining my votes, or perhaps even building cases, and generally being a somewhat reasonable player whenever I'm scum even though I'm trying my best.
No, the part about it being in your meta to point out what is in our meta is trival to replicate.
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Well, that is true. Also trivial to replicate, so not very useful. (See: Ichi's meta.)
You can say that it's trivial, but it's really super hard! I always end up explaining my votes, or perhaps even building cases, and generally being a somewhat reasonable player whenever I'm scum even though I'm trying my best.
No, the part about it being in your meta to point out what is in our meta is trival to replicate.
Well, yeah, that's easy to replicate, but it would also be incredibly stupid to do so as scum since I am super bad at replicating the meta so pointing out what the meta is would make it obvious that I'm not replicating it very well.
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Hmm. This whole Awaclus thing is interesting. He seems more engaged than his usual town self, which is somewhat suspicious. Yet I don't think his earlier comments seem out of the ordinary for him. His later posts are moreso though.
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It's in my town meta to rabidly tunnel and use vig shots and anything else to deal with anyone who explains they're acting to their town meta.
(am I doing it right)
(But it's true anyway)
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It's in my town meta to rabidly tunnel and use vig shots and anything else to deal with anyone who explains they're acting to their town meta.
(am I doing it right)
(But it's true anyway)
So clearly you're scum if you don't vote for yourself now.
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Obviously.
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It's in my town meta to rabidly tunnel and use vig shots and anything else to deal with anyone who explains they're acting to their town meta.
(am I doing it right)
(But it's true anyway)
If you don't vig someone soon, we're going to lynch you.
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It's in my town meta to rabidly tunnel and use vig shots and anything else to deal with anyone who explains they're acting to their town meta.
(am I doing it right)
(But it's true anyway)
If you don't vig someone soon, we're going to lynch you.
Preferably yourself.
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Alright, time to do some reading. The pot has been stirred, let's see who looks good and who doesn't.
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Hmm. This whole Awaclus thing is interesting. He seems more engaged than his usual town self, which is somewhat suspicious. Yet I don't think his earlier comments seem out of the ordinary for him. His later posts are moreso though.
That's why I voted. I don't know his 'usual town self' but while his earlier posts seem innocent enough, his more recent ones don't. Defending yourself strongly when only maybe two people have voted against you is suspicious.
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He also self-voted ~
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Also, we should get a vote count.
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vote count please, Mr Moderator
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It's in my town meta to rabidly tunnel and use vig shots and anything else to deal with anyone who uses good arguments that clearly show that they are town
Well, that's great.
Hmm. This whole Awaclus thing is interesting. He seems more engaged than his usual town self, which is somewhat suspicious. Yet I don't think his earlier comments seem out of the ordinary for him. His later posts are moreso though.
That's why I voted. I don't know his 'usual town self' but while his earlier posts seem innocent enough, his more recent ones don't. Defending yourself strongly when only maybe two people have voted against you is suspicious.
Three people. I'm also voting myself. I'm not defending myself because of the votes against me, I'm defending myself because the arguments against me are bad.
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You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
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Hydrad
Posting some intelligent stuff here and there. He’s certainly not lurking, which is what he does as scum. For now… Wait, he posted that he is town but he wished he was scum? Uh yeah, dumb. I was going to give him a pass until he said that.
Suspect
2. Faust
Being rational, raising points I had made before starting to read on Faust, so he’s thinking logically about this. Excellent. I will give a pass based on this.
Pass
3. Silverspawn
Playing the way SS does. He’s pretty good, as usual. I’ll try not to gush all over him while I evaluate his play.
Questioning that QT post is excellent. He’s on top of that. Scum would like to have avoided that, for fear of creating an IC, unless Jimmmm and SS are on the same team, but even then, they would to have coordinated this and they haven’t had the time yet. I’m going to say SS is town.
Pass
4. GreyICE
Well, since GreyICE seems to watch my streams, he/she’s obviously scum. We must lynch him/her NOW
Ice could be looking useful by the constant questioning and listing of his/her achievements and that’s great scum play. I think whether Ice is scum or not, he/she/it/xi/xerg/quot/whateveryouare is a pretty good player for sure. But for now, pass. I definitely knew he played on MafiaScum from his condescending tone though, before he even said it.
Pass
5. xpittip
Only two posts, devoid of information. You’re not passing.
Suspect
6. Seprix
I refuse to evaluate my own play because I am biased.
7. Jimmmm
That QT post… That QT post. THAT QT POST! Figuring that one post alone is going to make Jimmmm either scum or town for sure. There’s not much to read in the QT post, either he’s bluffing big time or he’s town. Now is it likely he’s bluffing? Not really. Town pass for now, but I’m not excusing him from the list of suspects forever, but for sure today.
pass
8. witherweaver
Uh, he joked claimed scum.
Suspect
9. LibraryAdventurer
New guy. Seems okay. Saying the right stuff, doesn't seem off right now. On basis of him being new, I'll let him pass today.
Pass
10. Awalcus
Getting a bit of heat for a point I agree with. However, he is feeling the pressure when two people had voted for him, so I’m not convinced yet.
Suspect
11. Ichimaru Gin
Ah, Ichi. He’s never town, even if he is.
Suspect
-
Town on Seprix. But not because of the read list. He just feels excited and stuff which at least for me I think happens more so as town then as scum.
-
You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
Also while joking may be scummy kinda thing. I'll just let you know that WW has done this as town a bunch of times.
-
You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
Also while joking may be scummy kinda thing. I'll just let you know that WW has done this as town a bunch of times.
I remind you of Joseph, who pretty much unanimously got lynched for claiming scum as a joke.. TWICE. He was town.
-
You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
Also while joking may be scummy kinda thing. I'll just let you know that WW has done this as town a bunch of times.
I remind you of Joseph, who pretty much unanimously got lynched for claiming scum as a joke.. TWICE. He was town.
Doesn't this make it even a less reason to vote for WW when hes joking? By the joking is scummy thing I guess I was talking about what most people here think about it. I think its personally fine and even do it myself a few times.
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You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
Also while joking may be scummy kinda thing. I'll just let you know that WW has done this as town a bunch of times.
I remind you of Joseph, who pretty much unanimously got lynched for claiming scum as a joke.. TWICE. He was town.
Doesn't this make it even a less reason to vote for WW when hes joking? By the joking is scummy thing I guess I was talking about what most people here think about it. I think its personally fine and even do it myself a few times.
But then there is the potential to mess up and then backtrack, claim you're joking, and then no one can be held to any standard. I will deride any jokers of being scum. Bring on the SJWs, I will continue to scumshame.
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But then there is the potential to mess up and then backtrack, claim you're joking, and then no one can be held to any standard. I will deride any jokers of being scum. Bring on the SJWs, I will continue to scumshame.
Hmm I think I would probably even agree that if you do a backtrack joking I would find that scummy. I guess I'm talking about the jokes and stuff where people claim things like vanilla scum or joke around about how each other are scum partners.
But ya to each his own.
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But then there is the potential to mess up and then backtrack, claim you're joking, and then no one can be held to any standard. I will deride any jokers of being scum. Bring on the SJWs, I will continue to scumshame.
You unironically rock.
Also yeah, I'm not particularly polite when playing mafia. I'm trying not to swear, or insult people, but this is a game where accusing people of playing poorly and lying is baked into the very structure. And I like your stances. There are some things you don't tolerate.
Like self-voting! Your vote is your tool to learn thing about other people's alignments. It is your contribution to the victory of your faction, and by far the strongest tool town get. Park it on yourself, and you are saying "the best person to vote for lynch today is me." And who can argue with a self-evaluation like that?
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It's foolish to ignore people's metas. WW has a jokey sort of meta. If jokes really bother you and you think they're scummy, I think policy votes are fine, but please don't pretend that such behavior is a scumtell.
I think self-voting is virtually always anti-town and should probably be punished.
-
It's foolish to ignore people's metas. WW has a jokey sort of meta. If jokes really bother you and you think they're scummy, I think policy votes are fine, but please don't pretend that such behavior is a scumtell.
I think self-voting is virtually always anti-town and should probably be punished.
Joseph jokes too, that's how he is. It's just a policy of mine, to discourage it from happening. Self voting too.
-
Awaclus,
- why are you self voting?
- can you explain exactly what it is from your scum meta which you fail to replicate as town? I've heard you saying that you're easily found at as scum a bunch of times, but never understood why.
Also yeah, I'm not particularly polite when playing mafia. I'm trying not to swear, or insult people, but this is a game where accusing people of playing poorly and lying is baked into the very structure. And I like your stances. There are some things you don't tolerate.
That's mostly a site thing. I've played, eh, the better part of a day on mafiascum, and the tolerance for offensive play is much higher there.
-
Yeah, I'm cool with a bit of joking, but things sometimes reach a level where people get away with stuff that they wouldn't normally wouldn't. And then they go back and justify it because "everyone was joking" or whatever. So I can see some of your points.
PPE: 1
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Also yeah, I'm not particularly polite when playing mafia. I'm trying not to swear, or insult people, but this is a game where accusing people of playing poorly and lying is baked into the very structure. And I like your stances. There are some things you don't tolerate.
That's mostly a site thing. I've played, eh, the better part of a day on mafiascum, and the tolerance for offensive play is much higher there.
Probably so. I'll try to tone it down in terms of how I phrase things (pushing people and voting my strongest scumread at the moment never change).
-
Awaclus,
- why are you self voting?
- can you explain exactly what it is from your scum meta which you fail to replicate as town? I've heard you saying that you're easily found at as scum a bunch of times, but never understood why.
1) Why not? It's not like I'm going to get lynched anyway at this point.
2) Well, I don't particularly try to replicate my scum meta when I'm town. :P Anyway, I always feel enormous pressure to make sense and explain everything as scum. Even in Blarnia Mafia where I somehow got away with it, I explained all of my votes and reads unless the reasons were very clear without an explanation. I obviously do not feel any pressure to explain anything at all when I'm town.
-
1) Why not? It's not like I'm going to get lynched anyway at this point.
These are the words of a man lacking in fear.
Would three people in this town be willing to test this theory?
Library, you believe the day 1 vote is essentially random, can't get much better than this, right?
Seprix, joking about being scum is like 12 levels above self-voting because you don't want to give reads on people.
Gin, you know this is a good vote. Care to add to the "punishment"?
-
You want to lynch someone because they don't fear being lynched?
-
Seprix, joking about being scum is like 12 levels above self-voting because you don't want to give reads on people.
Hydrad
Posting some intelligent stuff here and there. He’s certainly not lurking, which is what he does as scum. For now… Wait, he posted that he is town but he wished he was scum? Uh yeah, dumb. I was going to give him a pass until he said that.
Suspect
2. Faust
Being rational, raising points I had made before starting to read on Faust, so he’s thinking logically about this. Excellent. I will give a pass based on this.
Pass
3. Silverspawn
Playing the way SS does. He’s pretty good, as usual. I’ll try not to gush all over him while I evaluate his play.
Questioning that QT post is excellent. He’s on top of that. Scum would like to have avoided that, for fear of creating an IC, unless Jimmmm and SS are on the same team, but even then, they would to have coordinated this and they haven’t had the time yet. I’m going to say SS is town.
Pass
4. GreyICE
Well, since GreyICE seems to watch my streams, he/she’s obviously scum. We must lynch him/her NOW
Ice could be looking useful by the constant questioning and listing of his/her achievements and that’s great scum play. I think whether Ice is scum or not, he/she/it/xi/xerg/quot/whateveryouare is a pretty good player for sure. But for now, pass. I definitely knew he played on MafiaScum from his condescending tone though, before he even said it.
Pass
5. xpittip
Only two posts, devoid of information. You’re not passing.
Suspect
6. Seprix
I refuse to evaluate my own play because I am biased.
7. Jimmmm
That QT post… That QT post. THAT QT POST! Figuring that one post alone is going to make Jimmmm either scum or town for sure. There’s not much to read in the QT post, either he’s bluffing big time or he’s town. Now is it likely he’s bluffing? Not really. Town pass for now, but I’m not excusing him from the list of suspects forever, but for sure today.
pass
8. witherweaver
Uh, he joked claimed scum.
Suspect
9. LibraryAdventurer
New guy. Seems okay. Saying the right stuff, doesn't seem off right now. On basis of him being new, I'll let him pass today.
Pass
10. Awalcus
Getting a bit of heat for a point I agree with. However, he is feeling the pressure when two people had voted for him, so I’m not convinced yet.
Suspect
11. Ichimaru Gin
Ah, Ichi. He’s never town, even if he is.
Suspect
-
You're pushing VERY hard on Awaclus, Ice. You must be absolutely certain he's scum. You must be so sure of it, that you're pressuring everyone to do it. Why is that? I mean, self voting is completely stupid. It really is. But why should I move from my WW vote? What reason do I have right now?
-
We have over 8 days. Relax. A fast lynch is often the incorrect one.
-
You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
I mean, keep reading. I explained why I can't be scum. If it was good enough to convince me, it should convince you!
-
You caught me. I'm claiming Vanilla Scum guys.
vote: WW
I never saw this. Based on my past experiences with people joke claiming scum, it is something I refuse to tolerate.
I mean, keep reading. I explained why I can't be scum. If it was good enough to convince me, it should convince you!
I admit it, I laughed at the notscum.
-
That's a townread if I ever heard one.
-
You're pushing VERY hard on Awaclus, Ice. You must be absolutely certain he's scum. You must be so sure of it, that you're pressuring everyone to do it. Why is that? I mean, self voting is completely stupid. It really is. But why should I move from my WW vote? What reason do I have right now?
1) A fast lynch might not always be a correct one. But what is wrong is telling the scum there are a requisite number of days to lynch. Why play that way? The lynch is the weapon of the town. Ours and ours alone. Do we set some sort of Geneva Convention that limits its effectiveness? I promise you, the scum are not going to reward us by leaving PRs alive due to some night-kill Geneva convention. I am as happy with a scum lynch in 6 hours as I am with one in 6 days.
2) No one seems to agree with your WW vote. If no one agrees with your WW vote, you have 5 less people than you need to lynch him. If you're town, that means that the wagon that does result in a lynch is that much more likely to be scum influenced. That's already a good reason to work with me!
3) If you are voting for the sheer disruption to the game, self-voting is much more disruptive than joking about being scum. Imagine a world where you asked a player to explain something, and they went "that's my meta" and self-voted until you stopped voting for them. I imagine that's worse than a game where every player jokes about being scum once a game (although admittedly the latter would be annoying).
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You want to lynch someone because they don't fear being lynched?
Also, to respond to this, no. I want to lynch someone because I don't understand their actions in a town context. I want to lynch someone because they are self-voting, and when asked why, responded "votes are meaningless right now, I'm not going to be lynched".
Do you feel your vote and opinion are meaningless? I'm certainly curious about them (I'm always curious what my town reads are thinking). What's the town motive to dismiss both?
-
I'd say Awaclus's responses are the reason he's getting questioned more than anything. But he's just playing so stupid.. Can he really be scum?
...I have to think about this.
-
Also, I'm town, so there's that.
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No.. Awaclus won't die by my vote alone, and he HAS played worse than WW.. Oh hell. Might as well see where this goes.
vote: Awaclus
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Also, I'm town, so there's that.
But oh my gosh, there's this too. Ugh, my brain hurts.
-
I started to quote Grey's post quoting Seprix to say that his arguments sounded suspicious. Then I read and thought about it again, and well, I guess it's not all that suspicious. I kindof want to be suspicious of Grey, but I can't find a good reason for it. If he's mafia, he's good.
When it says a day lasts nine days, does that mean nine days maximum or always nine days whether we need that long or not? If the latter, what happens with the rest of that time after someone gets lynched?
little peeve: Why do we call mafia 'scum'?
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days last maximum 9 days. so if we lynched right now it would go into night right away.
I think mafia are called scum for 2 reasons? but not really sure.
1. Sometimes for flavor mafia is called something completely different so instead or changing what you call them all the time you just say scum I guess?
2. Scum can also refer to anyone against towns wincon. so if there are 2 scum teams or SK and stuff I think scum includes all of them.
But I don't actually know and thats how I've made sense of it.
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Vote Count 1.1
Silverspawn(1): Awaclus
greyICE(2): IG, Jimmmmm
Hydrad(1): Silverspawn
LibraryAdventurer(2): Hydrad,
Witherweaver(2): Xxpittip
Seprix(1): Faust
Awaclus(5): Awaclus, witherweaver, GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer, Seprix (L-1)
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
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oh. uh so awaclus is at L-1. that was fast.
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No.. Awaclus won't die by my vote alone, and he HAS played worse than WW.. Oh hell. Might as well see where this goes.
vote: Awaclus
You should propably announce it, when you put people at L-1, in the 4 games i've played so far there were 3 derphammers (one by myself...).
I agree that Awaclus looks scummy right now and for a day 1 wagon the votes seem pretty well reasoned, but wagons that go as fast as this one can easily backfire.
unvote
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Did you just unvote WitherWeaver, xxpittip?
Did the sheer awesomeness of this wagon make you nervous?
-
Here's another reason to lynch Awaclus:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12955
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You should propably announce it, when you put people at L-1, in the 4 games i've played so far there were 3 derphammers (one by myself...).
unvote
that's a pretty sick record. Though, in this case Awaclus was part of the wagon, so if he gets derphammered it's his own fault.
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Did you just unvote WitherWeaver, xxpittip?
Did the sheer awesomeness of this wagon make you nervous?
No, it's completely in character for town!pit to unvote there to prevent derphammers. Again, 3 out of 4 games.
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I'm not sure if scum!pit would do it, which is really the more interesting question.
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I'm not sure if scum!pit would do it, which is really the more interesting question.
He didn't prevent a derphammer. The wagon is on Awaclus. He was voting WitheredWeaver.
If anything his unvote makes a derphammer slightly more likely.
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I'm not sure if scum!pit would do it, which is really the more interesting question.
He didn't prevent a derphammer. The wagon is on Awaclus. He was voting WitheredWeaver.
If anything his unvote makes a derphammer slightly more likely.
Oh. You're right.
-
I think in that case it's just null.
-
Holy crap. Did we just get a scum slip?
-
Also, unvote. I didn't think it was at L-1, I really just need to check instead of estimating.
-
Holy crap. Did we just get a scum slip?
?
-
Holy crap. Did we just get a scum slip?
?
I don't like that unvote when he could have just left the vote there. If he was trying to trick us into thinking it was safe or trying to win town points.. I mean, does that make sense? He certainly was posting like he was voting for Awaclus.
-
I mean, if Ice didn't notice it, I wouldn't have seen it.
-
Well, I did think about that when I said it's null. I don't see scum!pit trying that on purpose, because the risk is high and it has a low chance of working. Like, not only would the next person have to fall for his trick, but he'd also have to have a reason to vote for him at all, which is not likely. Seems pretty far fetched.
Of course, if we end up not giving him any scum points for it, it's not high risk anymore, but I don't see him thinking that far.
So, yeah, I think it's null.
-
He's posted only a couple of times, once voting for WW and another time just saying random filler really. He's been quiet up until that unvote, lurking. I'm inclined to think he is scum now.
-
Well, I refuse to vote for pit today, unless he does something to provoke a super strong scum read.
-
He's posted only a couple of times, once voting for WW and another time just saying random filler really. He's been quiet up until that unvote, lurking. I'm inclined to think he is scum now.
Also, why don't you vote? Lack of commitment is scummy. It feels like you're asking for permission.
-
Good discussion happening. Keep it up guys. I'll weigh in later, when I've got the time.
-
Vote: pit
-
Protip: Get players to unvote you by getting an alternate wagon to L-1.
-
Holy crap. Did we just get a scum slip?
I don't think so. But being nervous about L-1 is scummy in and of itself.
-
It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
Finally Awaclus does contribute a bit more than his usual "that player is scum" posts, and you're discouraging it. I don't think there's any reason to believe Awaclus would post longer responses as scum.
-
Okay, see, here's this funny thing I want to share. When people say "I wasn't scummy, I was playing exactly to my meta", would you be surprised to learn my desire to lynch them actually increases?
Eh, well, I'm going to make another turn around and say that Awaclus wouldn't say that if he really paid attention to following his meta while he posted what he did.
-
I definitely knew he played on MafiaScum from his condescending tone though, before he even said it.
+1
-
It's foolish to ignore people's metas. WW has a jokey sort of meta. If jokes really bother you and you think they're scummy, I think policy votes are fine, but please don't pretend that such behavior is a scumtell.
I think self-voting is virtually always anti-town and should probably be punished.
It is interesting how easily you put these two statements together so easily. I think the reason to not punish jokes can also be applied to not punish self-voting, right?
I mean, I don't want to excuse self-voting, but that's what some people do. Some other people OMGUS a lot, which I also don't like (now who could that be?). Some people lurk and say it's not lurking. Some people compile reads lists, and some don't. None of that is a scumtell in itself, even though I might not like it.
Mafia is always about context. "Doing X means you're scum!" is a bad argument. "Doing X in situation Y is scummy for player Z" might be a good one. Now I totally get Grey's play, and I actually think it helps - he's new to the gang, and can't do these meta-heavy arguments; plus, acting aggressively help draw out reactions, which again you need if you want to read players you haven't played with before.
I realize I did stray a bit while responding to this post and this is no longer actually directed to Ichi, but more to all of you.
-
Did you just unvote WitherWeaver, xxpittip?
Did the sheer awesomeness of this wagon make you nervous?
No, if i would unvote because of the wagon, i would be voting for Awaclus by now. My WW vote was still my RVS vote and there is not really a strong reason for me to keep it.
Well, I refuse to vote for pit today, unless he does something to provoke a super strong scum read.
<3
-
You're pushing VERY hard on Awaclus, Ice. You must be absolutely certain he's scum. You must be so sure of it, that you're pressuring everyone to do it. Why is that? I mean, self voting is completely stupid. It really is. But why should I move from my WW vote? What reason do I have right now?
1) A fast lynch might not always be a correct one. But what is wrong is telling the scum there are a requisite number of days to lynch. Why play that way? The lynch is the weapon of the town. Ours and ours alone. Do we set some sort of Geneva Convention that limits its effectiveness? I promise you, the scum are not going to reward us by leaving PRs alive due to some night-kill Geneva convention. I am as happy with a scum lynch in 6 hours as I am with one in 6 days.
2) No one seems to agree with your WW vote. If no one agrees with your WW vote, you have 5 less people than you need to lynch him. If you're town, that means that the wagon that does result in a lynch is that much more likely to be scum influenced. That's already a good reason to work with me!
3) If you are voting for the sheer disruption to the game, self-voting is much more disruptive than joking about being scum. Imagine a world where you asked a player to explain something, and they went "that's my meta" and self-voted until you stopped voting for them. I imagine that's worse than a game where every player jokes about being scum once a game (although admittedly the latter would be annoying).
I thought it better to not respond to most of your posts, but I can't let this one go by.
1) I can see what you mean, but I don't agree. A scum lynch in 6 days usually yields a lot more information about the other scum than a lynch in 6 hours.
2) That's just... I don't even. I'm just going to assume you're not serious.
3) That's still not a good reason to vote for someone.
-
No.. Awaclus won't die by my vote alone, and he HAS played worse than WW.. Oh hell. Might as well see where this goes.
vote: Awaclus
I don't like this very much. If were were lynching based on how good people play, [censored due to potential offensiveness]
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Well, I did think about that when I said it's null. I don't see scum!pit trying that on purpose, because the risk is high and it has a low chance of working. Like, not only would the next person have to fall for his trick, but he'd also have to have a reason to vote for him at all, which is not likely. Seems pretty far fetched.
Of course, if we end up not giving him any scum points for it, it's not high risk anymore, but I don't see him thinking that far.
So, yeah, I think it's null.
silver is talking the sense.
-
Well, I refuse to vote for pit today, unless he does something to provoke a super strong scum read.
But then, I don't quite see where this comes from.
-
Did you just unvote WitherWeaver, xxpittip?
Did the sheer awesomeness of this wagon make you nervous?
No, if i would unvote because of the wagon, i would be voting for Awaclus by now. My WW vote was still my RVS vote and there is not really a strong reason for me to keep it.
Well, I refuse to vote for pit today, unless he does something to provoke a super strong scum read.
<3
So how about you provide us with anything, like what you think about Awaclus, or Witherweaver, or really anyone for that matter?
-
Here's some quick reads:
Hydrad - not particularly scummy, which probably means he's not scum.
Faust - me
Silverspawn - I don't really have a read yet.
GreyICE - the town motivation for playing the way he does is pretty big. I mean, he could replicate that as scum, I don't know how good he is, but he seems a force that drives the discussion and is therefore best left alive.
xpittip - I have no idea what this guy thinks about the game. That's not good. The unvote is null, but nothing makes me think he's town.
Seprix - I'm torn. I don't like his Awaclus vote, and there was one other thing he did that I thought was scummy, but I don't remember. His reads list on the other hand seemed townie enough.
Jimmmm - pretty sure he's town.
witherweaver - in general I don't like joking about being scum... I don't think it's a scumtell here though. I don't have much else on him.
LibraryAdventurer -
Awalcus - I don't want to lynch him mainly because I don't like the votes on him.
Ichimaru Gin - I feel like he's town, but I fear there's some overlap here. I'm not sure.
Disclaimer: Haven't checked the QT yet.
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Did you just unvote WitherWeaver, xxpittip?
Did the sheer awesomeness of this wagon make you nervous?
No, if i would unvote because of the wagon, i would be voting for Awaclus by now. My WW vote was still my RVS vote and there is not really a strong reason for me to keep it.
Well, I refuse to vote for pit today, unless he does something to provoke a super strong scum read.
<3
So how about you provide us with anything, like what you think about Awaclus, or Witherweaver, or really anyone for that matter?
The only thing about WW that stands out to me are the "i'm scum" jokes, because he did that in the other game i played with him and he was scum there, but since people say that he's always joking it's irrelevant.
Awaclus looks kinda scummy to me, since he voted for me without saying anything but "vote: pit" right after GreyICE and seprix said that they find me suspicious. It looks like a nervous (scum) player (could also be nervous town, but town is less likely to be nervous in his situation) trying to get the attention away from himself by "starting" a new wagon, while trying not to say anything controversial and just following what others just said.
-
trying not to say anything controversial and just following what others just said.
-
It is, however, not your town meta to go on to the extent you did in Reply 155 up there.
Go on? What?
Long post. Fluff fluff.
Finally Awaclus does contribute a bit more than his usual "that player is scum" posts, and you're discouraging it. I don't think there's any reason to believe Awaclus would post longer responses as scum.
Well, he has explicitly said that he does.
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But the thing is, he was only going on about theory, not about the actual players in the game.
-
So what does "overlap" mean faust? Like overlap between my town and scumplay?
I'm against short days and think pushing them is scummy. No one expects scum to "give" town anything because of a day's length, but longer days provide us with more information to analyze after someone flips--which is especially useful if they flip scum.
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But the thing is, he was only going on about theory, not about the actual players in the game.
Yeah, I don't think the post contained much useful stuff, but I also felt that the subsequent discussion made Awaclus seem townier.
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So what does "overlap" mean faust? Like overlap between my town and scumplay?
I'm against short days and think pushing them is scummy. No one expects scum to "give" town anything because of a day's length, but longer days provide us with more information to analyze after someone flips--which is especially useful if they flip scum.
"Overlap" means like I thought you were town t the end of RMM23, and I haven't got a distinctive read on you here, so part of my read might still come from that towny feeling I got there.
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But the thing is, he was only going on about theory, not about the actual players in the game.
Yeah, I don't think the post contained much useful stuff, but I also felt that the subsequent discussion made Awaclus seem townier.
Fair enough.
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But then, I don't quite see where this comes from.
It's a policy thing
-
It's the "don't vote for scum partner" policy.
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so, what about the card discussion? there was this:
Then there was stuff in the QT which I can't quote.
so
Lost City
town: delayed BP vs scum consolation
scum: nothing
Page
town: Bodyguard with 10P + Vig with 8P + weird neighborhood with 5P
scum: claimed: commute with 10P + targeted vig with 8P + weird neigherhood with 5P
unlcaimed: nothing + scum kill with 8P + fatal neigherhood with 5P
-
I actually think Page still looks better
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I actually think Page still looks better
I still agree with Page. I haven't calculated the chances, but if we pick Lost City i'd estimate one prevented night kill in exchange for the "moderate advantage" for scum if we get it and nothing for us + the "moderate advantage" if they get it. Page is kinda risky, but if we get it it's a pretty big advantage.
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Actually vote: Seprix after what just happened in the QT.
By this, I assume you mean how he would have hammered Page if I hadn't unvoted?
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Actually vote: Seprix after what just happened in the QT.
By this, I assume you mean how he would have hammered Page if I hadn't unvoted?
I wasn't hammering. So I voted.
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Actually vote: Seprix after what just happened in the QT.
By this, I assume you mean how he would have hammered Page if I hadn't unvoted?
I wasn't hammering. So I voted.
Ok. Then what did faust vote you for then? (this is pretty much rhetorical until he's around).
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Actually vote: Seprix after what just happened in the QT.
By this, I assume you mean how he would have hammered Page if I hadn't unvoted?
I wasn't hammering. So I voted.
Ok. Then what did faust vote you for then? (this is pretty much rhetorical until he's around).
Your unvote was hidden between text. It's certainly possible that he thought he had hammered. Also, I don't think we ever got confirmed that unvotes were actually possible, right?
Anyway, I'm less sure it's a scum thing now.
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I like faust this game. He seems towny also.
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I like faust this game. He seems towny also.
Probably means he's scum.
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I'm kind of sold on town!Faust right now.
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My uncle just died, so give me a day or two to process
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My uncle just died, so give me a day or two to process
Sorry to hear that. :(
I'm sure we can put the game on hold or you can sub out if you need.
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I should be okay in a few. Just need some time to process, and there's no way I can coherently post in a mafia game. Thanks.
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that's no problem at all - but no-one else has an excuse for lurking.
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Well, damn..
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Sorry man. That's very sad to hear :(
I've been busy lately, I should be around more tomorrow, but going to bed now.
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I'm here if anyone wants to discuss things for any reason.
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Stalling much? Let's see where we are:
]Vote Count 1.faust
GreyICE (2): Ichimaru Gin, Jimmmmm (been there: faust)
LibraryAdventurer (1): Hydrad (been there: GreyICE, faust, Witherweaver)
Ichimaru Gin (0) (been there: silverspawn)
Seprix (1): faust (been there: GreyICE)
faust (0) (been there: LibraryAdventurer)
xxpittip (1): Awaclus (been there: silverspawn)
Hydrad (1): silverspawn (been there: GreyICE)
silverspawn (0) (been there: Awaclus)
Witherweaver (0) (been there: faust, Seprix, xxpittip)
Awaclus (3): GreyICE, Witherweaver, LibraryAdventurer (been there: Seprix, Awaclus)
Not Voting (2): xxpittip, Seprix
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So the people with the most votes are people I don't want to see lynched. We need better wagons. How about vote: xxpittip?
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oh hey this game!
whoops totally forgot about it for the past couple days.
Anyways while I don't think pit is necessarily towny I kinda don't want to lynch him right away. I feel like hes never played a full game yet.
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pit is bad, but we do need a better wagon. how about WW? vote: WW
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pit is bad, but we do need a better wagon. how about WW? vote: WW
Funny you mention that. I was debating on who to vote and WW popped up in my head. For some reason I didn't do it then but now I will!
Vote: WW
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Vote: Awaclus
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Alright, my lynchee nomination is jumping off now.
Vote: WW
My reasons being his terrible play. For example, When I played with WW, he didn't joke about being scum. This is the first time I've seen this at any rate.
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Alright, my lynchee nomination is jumping off now.
Vote: WW
My reasons being his terrible play. For example, When I played with WW, he didn't joke about being scum. This is the first time I've seen this at any rate.
You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also, very scummy vote, this is the third? jump to a convenient wagon.
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Alright, my lynchee nomination is jumping off now.
Vote: WW
My reasons being his terrible play. For example, When I played with WW, he didn't joke about being scum. This is the first time I've seen this at any rate.
You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also, very scummy vote, this is the third? jump to a convenient wagon.
But I wanted to vote for you originally. No problem with my voting for you.
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Also, complaining about people joking is terrible. It's a forum game, we're going to joke. Unless you have some good meta arguments, it's a poor excuse.
At any, Lib seems scummy but new player and all, Seprix and Tipp have scummy metas and I can't read them.. Hydrad seems town.. Faust no read.. Awaclus scummyish, but my argument wasn't that great in the first place. Iceman towny.. no clue who else is in the game. Silver? No read.
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Not sure what to make of Silver's embargo on Tipp. Because Tipp gets mislynched all the time? I'm not sure that's a great reason.. also something I could see planning to do in scum QT as partners.
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Also, complaining about people joking is terrible. It's a forum game, we're going to joke. Unless you have some good meta arguments, it's a poor excuse.
At any, Lib seems scummy but new player and all, Seprix and Tipp have scummy metas and I can't read them.. Hydrad seems town.. Faust no read.. Awaclus scummyish, but my argument wasn't that great in the first place. Iceman towny.. no clue who else is in the game. Silver? No read.
I think you were there when Joseph hung on the ropes for joking scum.
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Joseph was scummy, not for the joke but because he always is.
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Joseph was scummy, not for the joke but because he always is.
Yeah, and he's always scum too.
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I had assumed the game was being put on hold for a few days. (I guess it did unofficially.) I'm not much good at reading people (especially when I can't see those people), so I have a hard time deciding who I think is mafia. I guess I'm most suspicious of Awaclus (BTW, how do you pronounce that?) and Hydrad (because of this post). (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480714#msg480714) But in both cases, the evidence seems pretty weak.
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I don't like the WW wagon, and I think the way Seprix is pushing it is scummy.
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I don't like the WW wagon, and I think the way Seprix is pushing it is scummy.
Want me to stop pushing it? Fine. But give me a better target.
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I had assumed the game was being put on hold for a few days. (I guess it did unofficially.) I'm not much good at reading people (especially when I can't see those people), so I have a hard time deciding who I think is mafia. I guess I'm most suspicious of Awaclus (BTW, how do you pronounce that?) and Hydrad (because of this post). (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480714#msg480714) But in both cases, the evidence seems pretty weak.
It gets much easier to read people after day 1. I would say without knowing metas day 1 is extremely hard. And even with knowing metas its usually a guess.
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I had assumed the game was being put on hold for a few days. (I guess it did unofficially.) I'm not much good at reading people (especially when I can't see those people), so I have a hard time deciding who I think is mafia. I guess I'm most suspicious of Awaclus (BTW, how do you pronounce that?) and Hydrad (because of this post). (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480714#msg480714) But in both cases, the evidence seems pretty weak.
It gets much easier to read people after day 1. I would say without knowing metas day 1 is extremely hard. And even with knowing metas its usually a guess.
which is why I said a while ago that there isn't much to talk about on Day 1.
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I don't like the WW wagon, and I think the way Seprix is pushing it is scummy.
Want me to stop pushing it? Fine. But give me a better target.
Why not xxpitip?
What I see is you citing reasons for WW being scum that plain and simple just aren't scumtells for him--and maybe in general. Maybe he's been a bit more jokey this game than you've seen him before. He's been jokey as town before, and as scum, so using that as the basis of why you find him scummy just isn't compelling to me.
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Yeah, I'm just gonna say "pit" from now on.
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Yeah, I'm just gonna say "pit" from now on.
Ya I decided that on like day 1 of playing with him.
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And I thought I had a good record for spelling people's names right too...
This game needs to get moving though.
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Also I was kinda hoping WW was going to say he felt scummy about me and then I would feel good about voting him since he has a really good percentage of getting my alignment correct. I think I'm going to go Vote: SS instead
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Also I was kinda hoping WW was going to say he felt scummy about me and then I would feel good about voting him since he has a really good percentage of getting my alignment correct. I think I'm going to go Vote: SS instead
that's a horrible idea.
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Well, okay..
unvote
I'd feel compelled to vote for Pit, but then everyone will yell at me, so I think I will abstain for now until I have a very good reason not to.
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Next time someone wants to vote against me, I'll just tell them that's a horrible idea. That appears to be an effective defense.
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Next time someone wants to vote against me, I'll just tell them that's a horrible idea. That appears to be an effective defense.
well Seprix was voting for WW so I think that defense has some flaws.
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oh, oops, I got confused.
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I'll take a page out of the Ichi book and vote: Hydrad
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Hey! I'm a different person now!
Maybe I won't be though, seeing as how this whole OMGUS thing seems to be taking off.
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Hydrad also isn't the worst lynch anyway. He always makes me nervous since holiday mafia
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Hydrad also isn't the worst lynch anyway. He always makes me nervous since holiday mafia
Well If i somehow found out how to replicate that game as scum you could be worried. But seeing Dues ex mafia you can be assured that I don't know how to do that again yet.
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I was your scum partner in DeM, I didn't read you correctly and got you lynched.
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I'll take a page out of the Ichi book and vote: Hydrad
Really? He sounds like his town self here.
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I'll take a page out of the Ichi book and vote: Hydrad
Really? He sounds like his town self here.
Can you be more specific?
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I'll take a page out of the Ichi book and vote: Hydrad
Really? He sounds like his town self here.
Can you be more specific?
His scum posts feel very forced and usually don't have much content. Here he seems like he actually doesn't know alignments. He's hedgey, but the kind of hedgey that comes with not knowing things. I.e., town
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(BTW, how do you pronounce that?)
I pronounce it [ɑʋɑklus] but you can pronounce it however you want.
I'll take a page out of the Ichi book and vote: Hydrad
Really? He sounds like his town self here.
Can you be more specific?
His scum posts feel very forced and usually don't have much content. Here he seems like he actually doesn't know alignments. He's hedgey, but the kind of hedgey that comes with not knowing things. I.e., town
Yeah, I also think Hydrad is pretty clearly town in this game.
I'd feel compelled to vote for Pit, but he's my scum partner
FTFY
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Jimmm! lets be IC friends!
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His scum posts feel very forced and usually don't have much content. Here he seems like he actually doesn't know alignments. He's hedgey, but the kind of hedgey that comes with not knowing things. I.e., town
this feels very sincere, and I'll trust your judgement for now, so unvote
Although my lynchpool is really running low now
Hydrad - ^
Faust - I really don't want to lynch faust day1
silverspawn - town
GreyICE - isn't here
xpittip - no
Seprix
Jimmmm
witherweaver ^
LibraryAdventurer first game
Awalcus
Ichimaru Gin
that leaves Seprix, Jimmmm, Awaclus, IG.
how about jimmm? vote: Jimmmmm
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You don't think Jimmm's slip was real?
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You don't think Jimmm's slip was real?
gahh, I forgot. I do think it was real.
vote: IG then
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I have to say, I think Jim is innocent.
Awaclus looks bad.
I forgot why Pit is considered scummy.
IG... Eh... I don't know.
WW.. I mean, if like 3 different people tell me his joking is part of his meta.. I mean, I guess it's not a good reason, even though like he'd do it even if he was scum or town.
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Alright, diving back in. Apologies for the wall post, I need to catch up.
First, Unvote. I actually like the naked vote here. Not writing this one off, self-voting is scummy, especially when you use it to complain about "how bad the arguments against you are", but I'm willing to let things develop.
Silver, why you gotta do this to me. I was kind of town reading you, but these two things set off a billion warning bells:
Hydrad also isn't the worst lynch anyway. He always makes me nervous since holiday mafia
This is one of my favorite scum strategies when voting for someone. Tell them how good their play are. It accomplishes many things:
- It makes them feel warm and fuzzy about you, so inherently deflects attention (awww, he really likes my play! Warm fuzzies~)
- It inherently excuses a town flip (Oh I can't read him anyway)
- It's a really weak vote. That can sometimes be playstyle, but town tends to vote stronger than scum. As a wagon vote with this reasoning... bad juju.
In short, this evaporated every bit of townread I had, and then some.
The lynchpool thing is nicely town, but this site seems to depend on meta a lot, meaning town-like behaviors are going to have to be replicated. So can anyone tell me if this is Silver's normal approach? If so it goes alignment neutral. (the Jimmmmm vote was super bad though) Anyway, that's not what I'm here to talk about.
And I thought I had a good record for spelling people's names right too...
This game needs to get moving though.
This guy has been nuzzling at the side of the game, providing commentary and questions, but never engaging. Every. Then this. This is not a town thought process. Town think "I should get the game going!" They only react like this when they're trying to move the game forward and it's still not moving (it comes across as town frustration). Gin? Gin has lots of interesting observations that could move the game forward. The idea that the WW wagon is bad, and the Seprix is scummy for pushing it? Great way to move things forward. His observation that "short days are pro-scum". Neutral theorycrafting. Can he use it to find scum on the Awaclus wagon? Didn't even try.
Scum thought process: "I don't have enough information to position myself properly" = "The game needs to get moving." Not "I should move the game" because Gin knows he's fairly well positioned, he wants other people to move it forward for him so he can position himself on the wagon he wants.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
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Vote Count 1.2
Silverspawn (2): Awaclus, Hydrad
greyICE (2): IG, Jimmmmm
IG (2): Silverspawn, GreyICE
Pit (2): Awaclus, Faust
Awaclus(3): Pit, witherweaver, LibraryAdventurer
Not voting: Seprix
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
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I see your reasoning, but I think the context between my and Hydrad makes these votes pretty null. In short, I once decided to figure out Hydrad's playstyle, failed to do so, and ever since then I decided that I can't read him, which I have empathized in probably most games we played together. So, when I say Hydrad makes me nervous, both of us know where it's coming from, which is why it's null.
Actually, these kinds of things are a town tell for me, because I'm more careful and thorough as scum, and don't do sloppy things like this. And "I don't screw up as scum" is a great defense.
Also, I'm town.
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Well this is interesting. Honestly, I haven't been as involved in this game as I normally am. I had spring break this week, but I ended up having even less free time than usual.
I would argue that part of my "being on the outskirts of the game" or whatever is a result of other people not replying to most of my thoughts. I don't have many scumreads this game, and it actually looks like my only vote was my RVS one on you. I think this wagon on me is actually a good development because it will hopefully shift some focus to me and allow me greater opportunity to engage people. My playstyle (at least in the past) often heavily relies on at least some people having scumreads on me.
This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
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This guy has been nuzzling at the side of the game, providing commentary and questions, but never engaging. Every. Then this. This is not a town thought process. Town think "I should get the game going!" They only react like this when they're trying to move the game forward and it's still not moving (it comes across as town frustration). Gin? Gin has lots of interesting observations that could move the game forward. The idea that the WW wagon is bad, and the Seprix is scummy for pushing it? Great way to move things forward. His observation that "short days are pro-scum". Neutral theorycrafting. Can he use it to find scum on the Awaclus wagon? Didn't even try.
Scum thought process: "I don't have enough information to position myself properly" = "The game needs to get moving." Not "I should move the game" because Gin knows he's fairly well positioned, he wants other people to move it forward for him so he can position himself on the wagon he wants.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
this is good. IG vote incoming.
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This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
what have you done with IG :'(
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This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
what have you done with IG :'(
Hahaha. I think it's a good case honestly; I find it very, very hard to see scum coming up with a case like this.
OMGUS is for the terrible cases against me. Seriously, not all cases people make against me are bad.
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This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
what have you done with IG :'(
Hahaha. I think it's a good case honestly; I find it very, very hard to see scum coming up with a case like this.
OMGUS is for the terrible cases against me. Seriously, not all cases people make against me are bad.
So you're scum then?
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good case = case that would be made by town
I'm willing to accept the flack for changing my meta away from OMGUS. It's worth it in the long run I think.
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This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
what have you done with IG :'(
Hahaha. I think it's a good case honestly; I find it very, very hard to see scum coming up with a case like this.
OMGUS is for the terrible cases against me. Seriously, not all cases people make against me are bad.
The problem with what you're doing right now is that you're not arguing why you aren't scum. You're saying the case is good, and you have only even partly defended yourself against one point. So why should we not lynch you? Why are you tonwn?
I also have my doubts about the sincerity of your townread. I think you might just be trying to change up your playstyle. Which is fine, but not towny.
I mean, you could at least say you're wrong. You're never this shy as scum. Why shouldn't we lynch you today?
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^ that's parentheses around "you're wrong"
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Well what is there to defend against? Obviously the conclusion is wrong, but the premise and though processes all seem fairly solid. I feel like I can tell when scum is trying to paint me or trump up false offenses. This doesn't feel like that.
Like I said in my other post, I acknowledge that this may be difficult when I'm transitioning my playstyle. My townread on him is very sincere though. It just seems people ignore the fact that I have acknowledged good cases on me as such in the past. To a degree, I think my meta is self-reinforcing because of my reputation for OMGUS and stuff. People just filter out all the times that I don't OMGUS people.
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good case = case that would be made by town
Town makes a lot of bad cases, too.
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Also, on more of a meta-game note, I'm really excited to be in a game with people I haven't played with before. It feels like it's been a long while since that's happened. That also has some effect on things.
PPE: I'm saying how I define cases on me. No case on town!me can be "good" in the sense that it actually reflects reality. But it can be good if it helps me to get a townread on someone.
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And yet you're voting to lynch me...
greyICE (2): IG, Jimmmmm
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Ah, some development! This is important..
I will get on my laptop and get to my thoughts on this.
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Oh yeah. That RVS vote.
vote: Seprix for now then
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This is one of my favorite scum strategies when voting for someone. Tell them how good their play are. It accomplishes many things:
- It makes them feel warm and fuzzy about you, so inherently deflects attention (awww, he really likes my play! Warm fuzzies~)
- It inherently excuses a town flip (Oh I can't read him anyway)
- It's a really weak vote. That can sometimes be playstyle, but town tends to vote stronger than scum. As a wagon vote with this reasoning... bad juju.
I did this when I was scum. I think this is fantastic reasoning, and should not be discredited at all. Seems I have another Mafia idol besides SS now. But idols are bad, and bad is scummy
This guy has been nuzzling at the side of the game, providing commentary and questions, but never engaging. Every. Then this. This is not a town thought process. Town think "I should get the game going!" They only react like this when they're trying to move the game forward and it's still not moving (it comes across as town frustration). Gin? Gin has lots of interesting observations that could move the game forward. The idea that the WW wagon is bad, and the Seprix is scummy for pushing it? Great way to move things forward. His observation that "short days are pro-scum". Neutral theorycrafting. Can he use it to find scum on the Awaclus wagon? Didn't even try.
Scum thought process: "I don't have enough information to position myself properly" = "The game needs to get moving." Not "I should move the game" because Gin knows he's fairly well positioned, he wants other people to move it forward for him so he can position himself on the wagon he wants.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
I see no bad reasoning here.
"I don't screw up as scum" is a great defense.
Also, I'm town.
No, it's not. I screwed up as scum, and everyone thought I was town for it when I put a different spin on it. And of course you say you're town, you're not WW. Or Joseph.
I don't have many scumreads this game
Because you're not looking. We have Awaclus, WW, etc.. Why wouldn't you notice this? Oh, I don't know, because you know who is scum?
This gives me a townread on GreyICE.
And yet you're still voting for Ice. You're doing that 'warm fuzzy' thing again, and explaining away your accusations with your usual BS.
Yeah, I like a vote: IG for now, if only to see where it goes.
PPE: 1
Oh yeah. That RVS vote.
vote: Seprix for now then
And no, this isn't an OMGUS vote, IG. Don't even try it.
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I'm very happy with my vote now.
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I'm very happy with my vote now.
Of course you are. :)
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On a more general note, I'd be interested in a clarification of "my usual BS".
Who said GreyICE's case was bad reasoning? Certainly not me.
I forgot to unvote him ok. I've only made the one vote this entire game.
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I find every lynch you've pushed today exceedingly uncompelling. You've come out with all this stuff about how "WW's play has been terrible" or something. I don't even know where it's coming from. I don't remember why Awaclus was supposed to be scummy either.
Please. Unless you think I'm partner's with Awaclus and/or WW and am being super obvious about not joining their wagons, your accusations make little sense.
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And no, this isn't an OMGUS vote, IG. Don't even try it.
Man. I will if I want to.
I hope you don't think I'm that much of a jerk to invalidate your whole little case on me just because I voted you while you were writing it up though.
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And no, this isn't an OMGUS vote, IG. Don't even try it.
Man. I will if I want to.
I hope you don't think I'm that much of a jerk to invalidate your whole little case on me just because I voted you while you were writing it up though.
Nah, lol. It was a joke, because you always do that. :p
I think this wagon on me is actually a good development because it will hopefully shift some focus to me and allow me greater opportunity to engage people. My playstyle (at least in the past) often heavily relies on at least some people having scumreads on me.
Then aren't you happy I'm voting for you? :) I'm helping you get some good development and opportunity to engage me!
This doesn't make sense to me anyways.
You acknowledge your bad play, and then saying a bunch of stuff that really hurts my eyes and my head, and it doesn't change the accusations against you at all.
I find every lynch you've pushed today exceedingly uncompelling. You've come out with all this stuff about how "WW's play has been terrible" or something. I don't even know where it's coming from. I don't remember why Awaclus was supposed to be scummy either.
Please. Unless you think I'm partner's with Awaclus and/or WW and am being super obvious about not joining their wagons, your accusations make little sense.
Well, you know what? I haven't really been doing my own thinking besides with WW. Ice has been doing that for me, sadly. He said Awaclus was bad, I went for it because man, it looked convincing. Self voting is bad, I guess. WW was joking scum, and from my experience, that's a bad thing. I got in trouble for it, Joseph did, etc.. So now that I bring it up, everyone's cool with it, and that really freaking pisses me off. Nothing is consistent.
Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
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hmmmm.
I'm liking how IG is reacting to his votes actually.
It seems much more calm and I feel like thats harder to do as scum then as town.
I might actually be thinking about going Seprix here I just wanna quickly reread him first.
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Ya I'll go
Vote: Seprix
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I think this wagon on me is actually a good development because it will hopefully shift some focus to me and allow me greater opportunity to engage people. My playstyle (at least in the past) often heavily relies on at least some people having scumreads on me.
Then aren't you happy I'm voting for you? :) I'm helping you get some good development and opportunity to engage me!
This doesn't make sense to me anyways.
You acknowledge your bad play, and then saying a bunch of stuff that really hurts my eyes and my head, and it doesn't change the accusations against you at all.
I find every lynch you've pushed today exceedingly uncompelling. You've come out with all this stuff about how "WW's play has been terrible" or something. I don't even know where it's coming from. I don't remember why Awaclus was supposed to be scummy either.
Please. Unless you think I'm partner's with Awaclus and/or WW and am being super obvious about not joining their wagons, your accusations make little sense.
Well, you know what? I haven't really been doing my own thinking besides with WW. Ice has been doing that for me, sadly. He said Awaclus was bad, I went for it because man, it looked convincing. Self voting is bad, I guess. WW was joking scum, and from my experience, that's a bad thing. I got in trouble for it, Joseph did, etc.. So now that I bring it up, everyone's cool with it, and that really freaking pisses me off. Nothing is consistent.
Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
[/quote]
These arguments make Seprex seem a lot more suspicious than IG to me. Vote: Seprix
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oops. sorry, I messed up the quote tags there. hope it doesn't cause confusion...
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Well, I just made my own case for you, so there you go.
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Request: vote count
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I second that vote count.
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"I don't screw up as scum" is a great defense.
No, it's not.
well, I was semi joking, but I don't think it's as bad as people think in my case
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I don't feel scum!Seprix here, with his recent posts. Ichi, man, who knows. It's always so hard to get proper reads when people change their playstyle. In general, I don't like the "this case against me is good" statement. I mean, if I'm town, and someone makes a case against me which I have to acknowledge is good, then man I played terribly.
So let's do vote: Ichi.
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I don't feel scum!Seprix here, with his recent posts. Ichi, man, who knows. It's always so hard to get proper reads when people change their playstyle. In general, I don't like the "this case against me is good" statement. I mean, if I'm town, and someone makes a case against me which I have to acknowledge is good, then man I played terribly.
So let's do vote: Ichi.
I don't quite agree with that. You can do things as town that fit a scum narrative well. They also, of course, fit a town narrative, but that doesn't mean that the scum argument is bad.
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faust feels like he's being disingenuous again. I felt the same way in Deus Ex though too I guess.
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I don't feel scum!Seprix here, with his recent posts. Ichi, man, who knows. It's always so hard to get proper reads when people change their playstyle. In general, I don't like the "this case against me is good" statement. I mean, if I'm town, and someone makes a case against me which I have to acknowledge is good, then man I played terribly.
So let's do vote: Ichi.
I don't quite agree with that. You can do things as town that fit a scum narrative well. They also, of course, fit a town narrative, but that doesn't mean that the scum argument is bad.
Well, yeah, on an objective level you may be right. But will I, as town, agree that the case made against me is good? I know it's wrong, so I won't feel like it's good.
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I've done it, as town before. Well, "good" is a stretch, but at least not bad. "Good" and "correct" aren't the same when dealing with incomplete information. The right choice can give a bad outcome.
Someone making good points against you can be indication that their town. I can see where Ichi is coming from there. Then again, it's not a hard thing to fake, especially if you're consciously changing the way you treat those that suspect you. Idon't really have a read in Ichi here.
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Vote Count 1.3
Silverspawn (1): Awaclus
greyICE (1): Jimmmmm
Seprix (3): IG, Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer (L-3)
IG (4): Silverspawn, GreyICE, Seprix, Faust (L-2)
Awaclus(2): Pit, witherweaver
Not voting:
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
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I don't agree with the IG votes, i think Seprix looks way scummier right now.
Vote: Seprix
Vote Count 1.3
Silverspawn (1): Awaclus
greyICE (1): Jimmmmm
Seprix (3): IG, Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer (L-3)
IG (4): Silverspawn, GreyICE, Seprix, Faust (L-2)
Pit (2): Awaclus, Faust
Awaclus(2): Pit, witherweaver
Not voting:
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
Awaclus and faust both voting twice.
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Wait, how am I scummy?
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Wait, how am I scummy?
I thought just a few posts ago you said theres a good case on you. you seemed fine with the votes on you at that time.
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Wait, how am I scummy?
I thought just a few posts ago you said theres a good case on you. you seemed fine with the votes on you at that time.
He didn't provide a reason.
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This game is stalling like crazy. I know I'm not putting in my full effort to keep it going, but it kinda takes more than one person. I'm going to bed now, but I don't have class tomorrow, so will be around more.
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Wait, how am I scummy?
I thought just a few posts ago you said theres a good case on you. you seemed fine with the votes on you at that time.
I think you're confusing Ichi and Seprix here, right? Ichi said the case on him was good.
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Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
I guess I was referring to this sentence.
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Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
I guess I was referring to this sentence.
Well, but that's clearly not serious.
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I don't agree with the IG votes, i think Seprix looks way scummier right now.
Vote: pit
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Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
I guess I was referring to this sentence.
Well, but that's clearly not serious.
It's also not inaccurate; he has been mostly sheeping. I'm not sure scum really wants to highlight that about themselves, though.
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Since things are stalling out, why don't we do one of these?
Want to lynch: Ichi, pit
Meh: Hydrad, Awaclus, WW, LA, silver
Won't lynch: Jimmmmm, Grey, Seprix
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Why is Seprix on the off list?
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Want to lynch: xpittip, Ichimaru Gin
Meh: Hydrad, Silverspawn, Seprix, witherweaver, LibraryAdventurer
Won't lynch: Faust, GreyICE, Jimmmm, Awaclus
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I don't think anyone wants to lynch Ice. :p
I'm going to stick with my IG vote, I think. I've thought about it for a couple of days. If IG ends up being lynched, that makes Pit suspect to me, since he's kind of half heartedly defending him in a way that doesn't look overtly like protection.
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I don't think anyone wants to lynch Ice. :p
I'm going to stick with my IG vote, I think. I've thought about it for a couple of days. If IG ends up being lynched, that makes Pit suspect to me, since he's kind of half heartedly defending him in a way that doesn't look overtly like protection.
If IG gets lynched and ends up being scum*
Again, typing on the phone is meh for me.
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Wow, Awaclus's reads are like an exact copy of faust's. This is starting to get annoying.
It's not fun having a fake trumped up wagon on me every single game. You can't use exact opposite arguments to justify scumreads on me, just saying. "Oh Ichi's OMGUSing like he always does, he must be scum!"
"Oh, he's changing his playstyle like he's said he would for a long time? He has a townread on someone because of a case they made against him which he says looks like a case town would make? Um, he must be scum for that too!"
Pathetic.
Lurkers, please participate more.
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It was a joke
Nuff said.
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It's also not inaccurate; he has been mostly sheeping. I'm not sure scum really wants to highlight that about themselves, though.
I've been partners with Seprix before. He is perfectly capable of doing this as scum. Especially when he gets rewarded with townreads for being too scummy or something.
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Want to lynch: Seprix, faust, Awaclus
Meh: Hydrad, silverspawn, pit
Won't lynch: GreyICE, Jimmmm, LibraryAdventurer, Witherweaver
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Wow, Awaclus's reads are like an exact copy of faust's.
Well, I do think that faust's reads are pretty good here!
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I'm the most meh person around, apparently.
Want to lynch: Seprix, IG, Awaclus
Meh: Hydrad
Won't lynch: pit, GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer, Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
the first three of the no-lynch list are policy based, but I think the want list is still sufficient.
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And we need to decide on a card before the day is over
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oh, and I forgot faust. He goes under no lynch.
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And we need to decide on a card before the day is over
Oh yeah. I almost completely forgot about that. Yeah, I think Page is still the best choice.
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Not overly sold on town lists, since I find them a buffet for the scumteam. "Lets shoot Sally, everyone thinks she's town and she is!" Lets you drive the game in a specific direction with night kills. Reread the game
For scum:
IG - for reasons stated. That and he seems oddly passive. For instance a few pages ago he was talking about how Pit was a good vote, but didn't move his vote. He only moved it when prodded. Like, I get that being locked into a meta sucks a lot, but I have no idea what his meta is. If he's "reinventing" his play, I wish he'd reinvent it into something that resembles town play
Pit - Pit's posts are more about why he thinks player X is acting in a way that is "scummy", not how player X is scum. When he posts. Naked votes only get you so far for a town read.
Silver - Really dislike the Jim vote after coming down firmly on the side of Jim=Town, not a fan of his response. Probably the weakest here.
Thoughts on Sephrix:
I don't like the WW wagon, and I think the way Seprix is pushing it is scummy.
Want me to stop pushing it? Fine. But give me a better target.
This is the most townie thing you could possibly say in the entire universe. Maybe he's damn good scum - but he's damn good scum.
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I'm interested. Do you think I'm playing in an anti-town fashion?
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It's hard for me to get involved in a game when everyone is lurking. With how little activity there is in this game, I find myself caring about it less, and probably playing in a more passive fashion--there's just not a lot going on right now aside from the wagon on me.
Concerning my meta, in the past I've OMGUSed people a ton and based many of my reads off of whether people are voting me or not. Not entirely by choice though, since I guess it's kind of expected for me to play that way now.
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Not overly sold on town lists, since I find them a buffet for the scumteam. "Lets shoot Sally, everyone thinks she's town and she is!" Lets you drive the game in a specific direction with night kills. Reread the game
For scum:
IG - for reasons stated. That and he seems oddly passive. For instance a few pages ago he was talking about how Pit was a good vote, but didn't move his vote. He only moved it when prodded. Like, I get that being locked into a meta sucks a lot, but I have no idea what his meta is. If he's "reinventing" his play, I wish he'd reinvent it into something that resembles town play
Pit - Pit's posts are more about why he thinks player X is acting in a way that is "scummy", not how player X is scum. When he posts. Naked votes only get you so far for a town read.
Silver - Really dislike the Jim vote after coming down firmly on the side of Jim=Town, not a fan of his response. Probably the weakest here.
Thoughts on Sephrix:
I don't like the WW wagon, and I think the way Seprix is pushing it is scummy.
Want me to stop pushing it? Fine. But give me a better target.
This is the most townie thing you could possibly say in the entire universe. Maybe he's damn good scum - but he's damn good scum.
I like Pit the best of your preferences. Ichi doesn't seem particularly scummy, and I'm a little unsure about your case against Silver. Scum is more likely to simply accept consensus town reads than try to lynch one. Maybe he would have forgotten about Jimmmm as scum, but you tend to put a lot more thought behind who you're going to vote as scum. This seems like it should be more town points than scum points.
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It's hard for me to get involved in a game when everyone is lurking. With how little activity there is in this game, I find myself caring about it less, and probably playing in a more passive fashion--there's just not a lot going on right now aside from the wagon on me.
Concerning my meta, in the past I've OMGUSed people a ton and based many of my reads off of whether people are voting me or not. Not entirely by choice though, since I guess it's kind of expected for me to play that way now.
Well let me ask you, what's good strong town play?
I promise I'll answer the other.
I like Pit the best of your preferences. Ichi doesn't seem particularly scummy, and I'm a little unsure about your case against Silver. Scum is more likely to simply accept consensus town reads than try to lynch one. Maybe he would have forgotten about Jimmmm as scum, but you tend to put a lot more thought behind who you're going to vote as scum. This seems like it should be more town points than scum points.
My "case" against Silver, such as it is (it's really more thoughts). I think scum is a lot more likely to think "I should move my vote!" rather than "I want to vote X". In this case you pushed him to move his vote off Sephrix, and he more or less had to respond (either to say "no I'm keeping it", or "yes, I'll move it"). Jumping to Jim there was super meh. Hydrad vote was also meh. That being said, he's at least trying to move things around here, which I respect a lot.
If Pit is scum though, what do you think of his Pit cross off on that list?
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I mentioned the Silver-Pit thing before. It makes sense as town, because Silver has seen Pit mislynched early a few times, but as I said, it's one of those things that is an easy position to take up as scum. And it's nice to have fully justified reasons for taking positions as scum, because you can't be called out for hedging, and especially nice to have strong stances with your partners, because people expect partners to distance themselves. I think it makes Silver look worse whether or not Pit is scum, but a bit more if Pit is scum.
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Well let me ask you, what's good strong town play?
I think a simplification of what I think makes good strong town play is being able to discern who is scum, and being able to convince others to agree with you. Pillars would be good activity levels, appearing townie yourself so as not to waste time and energy being suspected, and good use of your PR (if you have one).
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I would
I mentioned the Silver-Pit thing before. It makes sense as town, because Silver has seen Pit mislynched early a few times, but as I said, it's one of those things that is an easy position to take up as scum. And it's nice to have fully justified reasons for taking positions as scum, because you can't be called out for hedging, and especially nice to have strong stances with your partners, because people expect partners to distance themselves. I think it makes Silver look worse whether or not Pit is scum, but a bit more if Pit is scum.
I would not vote for pit as either alignment. It's null.
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look how good i can quote
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I would I mentioned the Silver-Pit thing before. It makes sense as town, because Silver has seen Pit mislynched early a few times, but as I said, it's one of those things that is an easy position to take up as scum. And it's nice to have fully justified reasons for taking positions as scum, because you can't be called out for hedging, and especially nice to have strong stances with your partners, because people expect partners to distance themselves. I think it makes Silver look worse whether or not Pit is scum, but a bit more if Pit is scum.
I would not vote for pit as either alignment. It's null.
You have to admit that isn't the most compelling thing in the world when coming from one's self.
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Whoop 3 days till deadline. I have some catching up to do.
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I would not vote for pit as either alignment. It's null.
You have to admit that isn't the most compelling thing in the world when coming from one's self.
maybe not, but it's the truuuuuuuuth
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Pit - Pit's posts are more about why he thinks player X is acting in a way that is "scummy", not how player X is scum.
What's the difference?
Lurkers, please participate more.
Sorry, I just really can't think of much to contribute. As I mentioned, I'm pretty bad at reading people under these circumstances. I mean, when I play mafia I'm used to being able to see people's faces and hear their voices, and also I know the people I usually play with. So all my usual strategies kinda disappear when playing online. Especially since it's day one. Is it unusual for forum mafia games to get slow for a couple RL days? It seems to me it'd be kindof inevitable when we have nine days to lynch someone and not much to go on.
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Eh. It kind of depends. Generally, I find activity begets activity and vice versa.
You're in my no-lynch pool for today since this is your first game online though.
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would lynch: Seprix, WW, SS
Hmm: IG, pit, awaclus,
won't: faust, me, Jimmm, grey, Library
Grey and Library are policy day 1 thing. But grey is towny and Library is null right now.
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Why is Seprix on the off list?
I think he was townie recently, and I don't like the wagon on him.
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Why is Seprix on the off list?
I think he was townie recently, and I don't like the wagon on him.
I like. Let's lynch someone voting for him!
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Vote Count 1.3
Silverspawn (1): Awaclus
greyICE (1): Jimmmmm
Seprix (3): IG, Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer (L-3)
IG (4): Silverspawn, GreyICE, Seprix, Faust (L-2)
Awaclus(2): Pit, witherweaver
Not voting:
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
Damn. Well, okay, we'll lynch LibraryAdventurer tomorrow~
Hm.. lots of people voting for Ichi. I'm still leaning town there. We should lynch one of Silver, Awaclus, Pit.
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Vote Count 1.3
Silverspawn (1): Awaclus
greyICE (1): Jimmmmm
Seprix (3): IG, Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer (L-3)
IG (4): Silverspawn, GreyICE, Seprix, Faust (L-2)
Awaclus(2): Pit, witherweaver
Not voting:
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
Damn. Well, okay, we'll lynch LibraryAdventurer tomorrow~
Hm.. lots of people voting for Ichi. I'm still leaning town there. We should lynch one of Silver, Awaclus, Pit.
these are bad choices
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Then provide better ones.
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Jimmmm is voting for GreyICE?
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Then provide better ones.
I already have. let's lynch Ichi
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We could forget policy vote here with new people if we have to. This situation may warrant it. I like the IG vote though, and I myself have no reason to switch my vote.
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We could forget policy vote here with new people if we have to. This situation may warrant it. I like the IG vote though, and I myself have no reason to switch my vote.
I think suggesting this is scummy, especially as there doesn't seem to be a need for it.
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Alright, so, Ichi. Some less good stuff on reread.
This is the first real (not RVS) vote:
Oh yeah. That RVS vote.
vote: Seprix for now then
It's, uh, well, his 29th of 44 posts (counting pregame), and game like 80% of the way into today. Prior to that he did very little except comment on theory and some other cases, including some defending. Nothing real offensive coming from him. There was also a town read on GreyICE from GreyICE's case against him.
After that, there's some back and forth with Seprix, and a comment about Faust feeling disingenuous.
Well, the thing that looks the worse here is that the commenting/criticizing other people's cases thing is a pretty easy way to contribute as scum. That's all I really see on a reread. You could maybe make a meta argument where Ichi is actively trying to change his meta because he doesn't want to get lynched for it as scum... but he also doesn't want to get lynched for it as town. I don't think him changing it here---or being conscious and vocal on how he's changing it---is much of a tell one way or the other.
He's not out of the lynch pool, but I don't get a big scum feeling.
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Seprix has felt the need to justify his vote on me by expressing how satisfied he is with it, or my wagon's generic "goodness" a suspicious amount of times.
I think WW's assessment is pretty fair. I haven't been especially active this game, but I have had a lot going on lately with school. I remember I told people I wouldn't be as active in Village Mafia where I jumped in at the end of the day to help lynch scum--and people thought I was bussing. Sometimes I am just lower activity.
It doesn't help when there are so many people lurking either. I think the case against Seprix is good, and I started that wagon. So I don't think accusations along the lines of "Ichi is watching and waiting in the sidelines" is accurate.
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Why did you start the Seprix wagon? That wasn't entirely clear to me.
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Why did you start the Seprix wagon? That wasn't entirely clear to me.
His play just feels scummy. The whole overconfidence "WW's terrible play, people being obv!scum, etc." The whole jokes are scummy thing and then in a response to me, he says he was making a joke.
Seprix played much like this when we were partners. It's mostly a gut read.
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Why did you start the Seprix wagon? That wasn't entirely clear to me.
His play just feels scummy. The whole overconfidence "WW's terrible play, people being obv!scum, etc." The whole jokes are scummy thing and then in a response to me, he says he was making a joke.
Seprix played much like this when we were partners. It's mostly a gut read.
I love gut reads!
but that still has some decent reasons. At least more reasons then my usual gut reads do.
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Why did you start the Seprix wagon? That wasn't entirely clear to me.
His play just feels scummy. The whole overconfidence "WW's terrible play, people being obv!scum, etc." The whole jokes are scummy thing and then in a response to me, he says he was making a joke.
Seprix played much like this when we were partners. It's mostly a gut read.
Did he not play like this when he was town?
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That's the thing. I think the difference between his town and scum play is minimal and perhaps difficult to detect. I'm leaning scum here though because intuition pushes me to that conclusion.
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You could maybe make a meta argument where Ichi is actively trying to change his meta because he doesn't want to get lynched for it as scum... but he also doesn't want to get lynched for it as town. I don't think him changing it here---or being conscious and vocal on how he's changing it---is much of a tell one way or the other.
To me, the way he treats his meta change feels disingenuous. I can't fully explain it, but... as scum, I can easily see him just giving a town read on the first person who makes a case on him - granted the case was not bad. I guess the crux is his reads seem based on his meta change, not based on what he actually thinks.
More importantly, he hasn't done anything to make him towny, which is already pretty big in this game.
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Well it's not disingenuous. Like I said earlier, people act like I always OMGUS everyone that votes for me, but that's simply not true. I think me telling you guys that I'm working to change my meta is coloring your perception of me.
Really, nothing? That seems kind of extreme. I can't really think of anything that a lot of people have done this game to make them seem townie.
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Well it's not disingenuous. Like I said earlier, people act like I always OMGUS everyone that votes for me, but that's simply not true. I think me telling you guys that I'm working to change my meta is coloring your perception of me.
Really, nothing? That seems kind of extreme. I can't really think of anything that a lot of people have done this game to make them seem townie.
maybe not, but there is a lot of PoE in this game, at least for day 1. you're just one of the few players I have no reason to cross off my list.
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Yeah, this D1 has a lot of info in it, more than usual. I think we can thank ICE for that at any rate. We have stuff to work with.
IG, my joke wasn't that I said I was scum. I consider it a policy vote to vote people who say they are scum, even in jest... Unless I know there is a Jester in the game or something edgecasey. The point is, I didn't come up with this policy lynch on my own, it stemmed out of the two times Joseph joked scum and hung, and the one time I joked scum and almost hung. People hang for saying baseless things of the sort, and now WW freaking can get away with it because it is his meta? Bullshit. I'll defend my decision to think poorly of WW to the death.
Yeah, I hate people hiding behind metas in general. That's another reason I like the IG lynch. Meta this, Meta that! It's not about metas. It's about tricking people into thinking you're town, whether you're town or not. I'll do whatever it takes for that, and so will everyone else, metas be damned. Can we stop talking about metas and start evaluating actual play?
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This post is just so much fluff. I had written up a longer reponse, but I'm not even going to try and point out all the flaws in this post.
Man, you can say all of this, but I don't think you'd like the consequences if people chose to ignore your meta. I don't see how I'm using my meta to "hide" or any of the other things you accuse me of doing. These accusations are so ludicrous it's almost giving me a townread on you.
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Purposefully ignoring individual's patterns of play is incredibly shortsighted and if that were actually the best course of action, would remove most of the reasons why I enjoy playing this game.
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It's about tricking people into thinking you're town, whether you're town or not.
It's also about figuring out which other players are town, and for that purpose, metas are very much relevant.
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It's about tricking people into thinking you're town, whether you're town or not.
It's also about figuring out which other players are town, and for that purpose, metas are very much relevant.
Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself.
This statement clearly doesn't come from a town perspective either. Town's #1 priority is identifying and (hopefully) lynching scum, not looking townie.
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I don't know how anyone else plays though. I've played very few games here.
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I don't know how anyone else plays though. I've played very few games here.
ftr I used the "I don't like meta's, I'm a new player and disadvantaged by not knowing them" in my very first game as scum.
For the most part, you take people's word I think if you don't know someone's meta. It'd be pretty foolish for them to lie about their own meta or someone else's, since other people would just correct them
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It's about tricking people into thinking you're town, whether you're town or not.
It's also about figuring out which other players are town, and for that purpose, metas are very much relevant.
Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself.
This statement clearly doesn't come from a town perspective either. Town's #1 priority is identifying and (hopefully) lynching scum, not looking townie.
And don't put a scum narrative in me. If people think I'm town, I'll be more likely to help town on the basis that I'm not on the lynch list, and my arguments will hold more water. Anyone can be hung for anything. For saying one thing wrong, for breaking or keeping meta, etc... Innocent or not. The trick is to separate the good from the bad, and sometimes it can get ugly.
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I don't know how anyone else plays though. I've played very few games here.
ftr I used the "I don't like meta's, I'm a new player and disadvantaged by not knowing them" in my very first game as scum.
For the most part, you take people's word I think if you don't know someone's meta. It'd be pretty foolish for them to lie about their own meta or someone else's, since other people would just correct them
Yes, but I am not a huge fan of trusting things in this game. People thought I was town in the one game I was scum for bad mess ups I should have hung for. All I did was say I had Aspergers and played with emotions, and all of a sudden, I was a patron saint. Pardon me if I am skeptical of anything.
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Now it's. "Don't call out my blatant scum perspective!"
Dude. People can and are going to find you scummy.
Looking townie should be natural if you're playing town--it shouldn't be something that you artificially work at--and if not, metas help some people with that since other's acknowledge their town play is different.
PPE: Exactly. I think you're more than capable of manipulating people like you mention here.
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And if I am, so is everyone else.
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Specifically, it's been shown that you can get away with acting blatantly scummy as scum and you are aware of this fact and will freely exploit it.
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Which of course is to be expected. It's just something people should be made aware of.
I have to head to class, I'll be back in a few.
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Like I've said, there's nothing wrong with anything I've done here. My joke was in direct response to someone RVS voting me because I hadn't posted anything yet. I'm not particular concerned with whether people take issue with this.
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Specifically, it's been shown that you can get away with acting blatantly scummy as scum and you are aware of this fact and will freely exploit it.
An actual good point.
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I don't know how anyone else plays though. I've played very few games here.
ftr I used the "I don't like meta's, I'm a new player and disadvantaged by not knowing them" in my very first game as scum.
For the most part, you take people's word I think if you don't know someone's meta. It'd be pretty foolish for them to lie about their own meta or someone else's, since other people would just correct them
Yes, but I am not a huge fan of trusting things in this game. People thought I was town in the one game I was scum for bad mess ups I should have hung for. All I did was say I had Aspergers and played with emotions, and all of a sudden, I was a patron saint. Pardon me if I am skeptical of anything.
I thought you were actually town that game.
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That wasn't where we mislynched you on Day 2?
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That wasn't where we mislynched you on Day 2?
no, that was were he, uh, either won as scum or survived really long.
the game where we mislynched him was where I made this huge case based on inconsistency I think.
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ftr I used the "I don't like meta's, I'm a new player and disadvantaged by not knowing them" in my very first game as scum.
For the most part, you take people's word I think if you don't know someone's meta. It'd be pretty foolish for them to lie about their own meta or someone else's, since other people would just correct them
Yes, but I am not a huge fan of trusting things in this game. People thought I was town in the one game I was scum for bad mess ups I should have hung for. All I did was say I had Aspergers and played with emotions, and all of a sudden, I was a patron saint. Pardon me if I am skeptical of anything.
Hey I have Aspergers too ^5.
I really don't see what wrong with joking about being mafia.
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Specifically, it's been shown that you can get away with acting blatantly scummy as scum and you are aware of this fact and will freely exploit it.
An actual good point.
One of many I'd like to think.
And yeah, he wasn't town in that game. He was partners with faust and myself and ended up getting lynched at the end.
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Helloooooooooooo? Is anyone out there?
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I even used good manners just for silver's sake.
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I even used good manners just for silver's sake.
???
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Good grammar putting faust before myself.
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Good grammar putting faust before myself.
ah. well done :P
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I'm here! what should we do?
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Lynch bitches.
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sounds like fun!
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Lynch bitches.
But I love my dog!
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Lynch bitches.
But I love my dog!
Is your dog scum?
-
Is your dog scum?
I hope not...
-
welp this was a good talk.
also just to make sure I have my time right day ends in like 24 hours right? well 24 minus 10 minutes?
-
Alright, let's lynch peoples then.
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Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
-
Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
how about not? what is the actual case?
-
Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
how about not? what is the actual case?
He's scum.
-
Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
how about not? what is the actual case?
He's scum.
how do you know?
-
Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
how about not? what is the actual case?
He's scum.
how do you know?
He must be his scum buddy!
-
Hrm. Lurking is terrible. How about vote: pit?
how about not? what is the actual case?
He's scum.
how do you know?
Scumslip!
-
I can't tell if you guys are joking or not.
Well, you aren't voting, so.. Yeah, has to be a joke.
And yikes, deadline.
-
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
-
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
Not sure if I like this, but considering Awaclus has been suspicious now, and does not seem to have a real motivation to keep on playing, it may be warranted after all.
-
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
Well, I sort of do, it's just that I've found them already. They're Pit, Ichi and you.
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
Not sure if I like this, but considering Awaclus has been suspicious now, and does not seem to have a real motivation to keep on playing, it may be warranted after all.
I have not been suspicious, and I do have a real motivation to keep on playing.
-
Vote: Awaclus
We need to make a decision soon, there are less than 12 hours left until the day ends and i think having no lynch would be really bad for us...
-
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
Well, I sort of do, it's just that I've found them already. They're Pit, Ichi and you.
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
see, I'm town, so I already know that you're wrong with your extra confident claim. Ichi may very well be scum. Pit may be too, though I fail to see any real evidence, I think he's pretty null.
Sadly, I also don't have as strong of a scum read on you as I would like to. I'm not sure if semi policy voting you over Ichi or Seprix is worth it.
Not sure if I like this, but considering Awaclus has been suspicious now, and does not seem to have a real motivation to keep on playing, it may be warranted after all.
I have not been suspicious, and I do have a real motivation to keep on playing.
-
fixed version:
alright, let's vote: Awaclus and lynch him. He clearly has no interest in finding scum.
Well, I sort of do, it's just that I've found them already. They're Pit, Ichi and you.
see, I'm town, so I already know that you're wrong with your extra confident claim. Ichi may very well be scum. Pit may be too, though I fail to see any real evidence, I think he's pretty null.
Sadly, I also don't have as strong of a scum read on you as I would like to. I'm not sure if semi policy voting you over Ichi or Seprix is worth it.
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Sadly, I also don't have as strong of a scum read on you as I would like to. I'm not sure if semi policy voting you over Ichi or Seprix is worth it.
It's not. Especially over Ichi.
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I could do Awaclus. Sadly, this amount of misplaced confidence that I am scum isn't a scumtell for him I think.
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I could do Awaclus. Sadly, this amount of misplaced confidence that I am scum isn't a scumtell for him I think.
Yeah, it's a town tell.
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I'd go Pit over Ichi or Silver. Awaclus or Pit is a tosssup for me. Starting to get slightly less scum feeling on Awaclus.
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Well. I refuse to be the proxy lynch born out of others' low activity. I'd be happy to lynch a lurker today.
-
Hmm so my sleep schedule is a bit off right now and theres a chance I might fall asleep soon and miss deadline. That being said I'm still ok with a seprix lynch so I think I'm going to keep my vote there. I'm going to try and be there for the deadline but don't count on it.
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I'm not sure when the deadline is, but right now I see no reason to move my vote. I won't be around for the next 12 hours or so.
-
Can we get a count?
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well, that was less stuff to reread than I expected. anyone here? how many hours till deadline?
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Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
man, I don't even know how long that is. I'd suggest making deadlines in forum time... unless pacific time is forum time. Also, it doesn't say if it's AM or PM
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Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
man, I don't even know how long that is. I'd suggest making deadlines in forum time... unless pacific time is forum time. Also, it doesn't say if it's AM or PM
That would be 9:30 PM Forum Time. Because 9:30 AM has already passed. So, 4.5 hours.
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Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
man, I don't even know how long that is. I'd suggest making deadlines in forum time... unless pacific time is forum time. Also, it doesn't say if it's AM or PM
That would be 9:30 PM Forum Time. Because 9:30 AM has already passed. So, 4.5 hours.
well but I'll go to sleep soon. So, uh, I have to choose now.
-
right now, my biggest scum reads are actually seprix and faust, but I kind of also want to lynch Ichi or Awaclus
-
but... hm... Ichi starts feeling like a trap, and Awaclus is just a lurker lynch
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Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
man, I don't even know how long that is. I'd suggest making deadlines in forum time... unless pacific time is forum time. Also, it doesn't say if it's AM or PM
I'd suggest using the [time] feature of the forum, it's incredibly convenient. You just type the time in your own timezone, and then it shows up for everyone as the correct time in their timezones. You have to make sure your own timezone setting is correct though because otherwise it'll obviously get the time wrong for everyone else.
-
but... hm... Ichi starts feeling like a trap
Subtly backpedaling from your scum read on your partner.
-
We're not partners. Partner theory is fluff at this point in the game. Save those accusations for when one of us flips scum.
-
but... hm... Ichi starts feeling like a trap
Subtly backpedaling from your scum read on your partner.
if we lynch Ichi today, do you volunteer to be lynched next in case he's town?
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Save those accusations for when one of us flips scum.
So you're both going to flip scum? Great, then we can just lynch you both.
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Save those accusations for when one of us flips scum.
So you're both going to flip scum? Great, then we can just lynch you both.
Yeah. I'm at vote: Awaclus.
This is getting egregious.
-
if we lynch Ichi today, do you volunteer to be lynched next in case he's town?
No, because then we have two lynched townies and my wagon wouldn't even be informative, so that would suck.
-
quick PoE
Hydrad
Faust
silverspawn
GreyICE
Pit
Seprix
Jimmmm
witherweaver
LibraryAdventurer
Awalcus
Ichimaru Gin
----
Hydrad
Faust
Seprix
Awaclus
IG
so, hm. Assuming I don't want to do Ichi, that only leaves 4. Faust is probably not going to happen (plus I kind of want to give him another chance to get stuff done), so... Seprix or Awaclus again... or Hydrad. I think WW said Hydrad was town? But that's the only argument against him
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Vote Count 1.silver
GreyICE (1): Jimmmmm
IG (2): GreyICE, Seprix,
Pit (2): Awaclus, faust
Awaclus (4): witherweaver, silverspawn, Pit, IG {{L-2}}
Seprix (2): Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
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the pit wagon is obviously horrible. Note also that faust switched away from IG... which makes me feel worse about him again.
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yeah, you know, I'll vote: IG again. If he is town, that's good news for faust and bad news for Seprix
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yeah, you know, I'll vote: IG again. If he is town, that's good news for faust and bad news for Seprix
And it's bad news for me how exactly? We both think he's a suspect, ergo, that makes you look bad too with your logic.
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yeah, you know, I'll vote: IG again. If he is town, that's good news for faust and bad news for Seprix
well I wasn't thinking about me. I'm town either way :P
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yeah, you know, I'll vote: IG again. If he is town, that's good news for faust and bad news for Seprix
well I wasn't thinking about me. I'm town either way :P
You did it again. :)
I'm town too, what a coincidence!
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Should I claim?
-
I need to disable the quick reply thing again
fixed:
And it's bad news for me how exactly? We both think he's a suspect, ergo, that makes you look bad too with your logic.
well I wasn't thinking about me. I'm town either way :P
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yeah, you know, I'll vote: IG again. If he is town, that's good news for faust and bad news for Seprix
well I wasn't thinking about me. I'm town either way :P
You did it again. :)
I'm town too, what a coincidence!
Oh my gosh, I DID IT.
(http://i.imgur.com/aaGAddj.gif)
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...This is really weird. I'm positive I posted outside the quotes.
-
Should I claim?
It's day 1, I don't know if that is safe yet.
-
Should I claim?
It's day 1, I don't know if that is safe yet.
uh, yeah, but lynching him is obviously not safe either.
if you want me to change my vote, you have to claim, because I want to go to sleep soon
-
Why would IG claim?
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Vote: Ichi
Should I claim?
Yes.
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There are, like, two votes on Ichi?
-
Why would IG claim?
Um. Because people are pushing my lynch and the deadline is close.
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There are, like, two votes on Ichi?
Oh wait really? Nevermind then. Just more scum points to Awaclus.
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There are, like, two votes on Ichi?
Oh wait really? Nevermind then. Just more scum points to Awaclus.
actually, yeah. don't claim.
vote: Awaclus
these last 2 posts were was really bad
-
L-1?
-
L-1?
just L-2 I think, I switched off and back again from the vote count
-
vote: awaclus
...The hell!?
PPE:1
I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that's suspicious as heck.
-
now it's L-1
-
AWACLUS IS AT L-1.
-
and now he really should claim
-
and now he really should claim
Vanilla Townie.
-
and now he really should claim
Don't worry. I'll claim for him. He's scum.
and now he really should claim
Scum.
FTFY
-
Jimmmm
are you around? Thoughts?
GreyICE has disappeared too. Library Adventurer is still very low in content.. he left his vote on, uh... Seprix? Faust is probably asleep...
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and now he really should claim
Vanilla Townie.
mh
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Well, VT is not too common a scum claim in an closed RMM
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I'm not sure if we should lynch him after this claim - but I have to leave the decision to others. I'm asleep... gn8, gl
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Well, VT is not too common a scum claim in an closed RMM
wait, this is an RMM?
-
Seprix, SS, WW, and Awaclus are on this thread. Last person is invisible. Don't know who it is right now.
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it is. mh. that makes it worse I think.
-
Seprix, SS, WW, and Awaclus are on this thread. Last person is invisible. Don't know who it is right now.
Probably me.
PPE: I still want to lynch Awaclus.
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Well it's RMM 24, so I'm assuming so.
PPE: No, I think it makes it better. Have you ever seen scum claim VT in RMM?
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I'll be lurking in case some new developments come about. No one is hammering to my knowledge, so I think we're on the right track?
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Well, VT is not too common a scum claim in an closed RMM
Exactly and this is why I wanted Ichi to claim, because I thought we're mostly VTs and the RMM aspect consists of the card powers thing, and it would have been easy to catch lying scum there.
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Vote: Pit
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But WW, the things Awaclus has said in his past few posts.. Did you even read what he said?
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We're doing Pit again? Great, Vote: Pit then.
But WW, the things Awaclus has said in his past few posts.. Did you even read what he said?
Probably, because he's arriving to the right conclusion.
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Wellp, okay then.
unvote
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Wellp, okay then.
unvote
Seriously?
Who do you think is scum?
-
Wellp, okay then.
unvote
Seriously?
Who do you think is scum?
It doesn't really matter what I think.
-
What!?
-
What!?
I mean, really, I'm about as credible as a cactus. Any argument I make gets refuted anyways.
-
Awaclus' claim and reasoning just doesn't sound like he's scum. I mean, maybe scum team has one or two Goons and they deduced that the PRs would come from cards, so that VT was a smart claim? But, that's a bit convoluted.
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By his reasoning I mean what he was saying about getting Ichi to claim. If he is VT, that makes sense from his viewpoint.
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What!?
I mean, really, I'm about as credible as a cactus. Any argument I make gets refuted anyways.
I legitimately don't know how credible cacti are. I mean, I've never had one lie to me.
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By his reasoning I mean what he was saying about getting Ichi to claim. If he is VT, that makes sense from his viewpoint.
Oh man... IG should have claimed after all... He might have said something. Who asks to claim and then says they're just VT?
-
I think it's important to ask in general, since I tend to claim when I don't need to I guess.
Claiming VT is bad because it helps scum with POE to target possible PR's instead of you.
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I think it's important to ask in general, since I tend to claim when I don't need to I guess.
Claiming VT is bad because it helps scum with POE to target possible PR's instead of you.
So... You were going to do it anyways?
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No. I wanted to hear people's opinions on it. It turns out I had nowhere near as many votes on me as I had thought. Also, it gives information whether people tell you to claim/not claim.
-
So... are we going to lynch anyone?
If I'm figuring correctly, it's about 2.5 hours till deadline, and no one has more than three votes at the moment.
-
I really don't like IG asking "should I claim?" and then not claiming when he's probably either vanilla town or mafia, but then right now I'm suspicious of pretty much everyone (except perhaps Jimmmm and maybe Grey).
I think it'd be very bad to have a no-lynch. We'd get a lot more information by lynching someone, hopefully mafia obviously, but it'd be worse to have a no-lynch than lynch a townie because then we get the information of finding out their alignment and we have a lot more to go on the next day.
I was happy with my vote on Seprix, but it doesn't look like that's happening. If I'm figuring correctly, IG, Pit, and Awaclus each have 3 votes and no one has more than that. So which of them am I most suspicious of? Tough choice, but I'll go with Vote: IG
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Wrong choice. I'm town, and I believe scum has lurked in an attempt to make me as a proxy lynch.
What's the point in asking to claim if I was going to do it regardless of what anyone said?
-
I think Pit is a better choice than IG. Silver is a possibility as well.
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Wrong choice. I'm town, and I believe scum has lurked in an attempt to make me as a proxy lynch.
What's the point in asking to claim if I was going to do it regardless of what anyone said?
What's the point in asking to claim at all? That's mainly the part that I don't like, just by asking to claim, you're trying to imply that you have an important role as town. When you claim that of course you're likely to be lying, but if you imply it and then don't claim it seems even more suspicious.
-
Wrong choice. I'm town, and I believe scum has lurked in an attempt to make me as a proxy lynch.
What's the point in asking to claim if I was going to do it regardless of what anyone said?
What's the point in asking to claim at all? That's mainly the part that I don't like, just by asking to claim, you're trying to imply that you have an important role as town. When you claim that of course you're likely to be lying, but if you imply it and then don't claim it seems even more suspicious.
I already pointed out why. I did not intend to intimate whether or not I was a PR or a VT.
-
I think it's important to ask in general, since I tend to claim when I don't need to I guess.
Claiming VT is bad because it helps scum with POE to target possible PR's instead of you.
Your explaination of why you asked assumes you would have claimed if you hadn't asked, but why do either?
It seems to me that asking whether you should claim is a clear attempt to imply that you're a PR. I mean, if you're going to claim vanilla town, why ask? What's the harm in that? I mean, I don't see the point in claiming vanilla town, but I don't see any harm in it either. If you're vanilla town, why claim at all? Unless you're going to lie and say you're a PR to keep from getting lynched, which seems more likely a mafia move, but is very plausible as town also.
-
Claiming VT is bad because it gives scum more information and limits their pool for possible town PR's.
-
Claiming VT is bad because it gives scum more information and limits their pool for possible town PR's.
Okay. So wouldn't that mean that if you're asking to claim then you're implying you're a PR? Or were you considering claiming mafia?
Anyway, I don't see how claiming VT gives anyone more information. As far as I'm concerned, everyone claims VT by default, and there's always people who are lying. Lying out loud or otherwise doesn't seem to make much difference.
-
No, that means that I don't think that asking to claim means anything about my power role or lack thereof.
-
We're running out of time...
-
I'd vote for IG, or Awaclus.. Pit is suspicious enough to where I'll consider his lynch if there's good evidence for it. Anyone else, I do not think it reasonable.
-
Sorry guys. Life. Vote: Awaclus
-
Well, back to what I wanted anyways.
vote: Awaclus
L-1 I think.
-
Vote Count 1.4
Awaclus(5): Jimmmm, Silverspawn, Seprix, pit, Ichimaru Gin
Pit(3): Awaclus, witherweaver, Faust
Seprix(1): Hydrad
Ichimaru Gin(2): GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer
Not Voting: nobody
Day Ends in 25 minutes.
6 are needed to lynch.
-
Wait, Jimm, are you sure?
-
Crap... 25 Minutes!?!?
-
unvote
I will be here. Awaclus lynch is feeling very low resistance though.
-
Hey, I voted IG. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483776#msg483776)
Mod-edit: Fixed
-
I'm going Awaclus over no lynch, but I believed him
-
If IG was at -1 at any point, he's done. He wasn't at L-1, was he...?
-
If IG was at -1 at any point, he's done. He wasn't at L-1, was he...?
Oh wait. Never mind. I'm confused.
-
I thought someone else voted IG also, but they both changed their votes afterwards...
-
So.. is there any choice but Awaclus?
-
Mm. It's like 9 minutes to the deadline. I guess Awaclus is pretty much the only option.
PPE: I don't think there's time.
-
5 minutes!
-
We're not going to lynch anyone..
-
vote: Awaclus
I was going to hammer, but this is too close.
-
Jesus Christ, WW! VOTE!
-
no lynch is bad.
vote: Awaclus
-
Vote: Awaclus
Settle down bub!
-
Okay... So if Awaclus is not scum... Then what?
-
Vote Count 1.FINAL
Awaclus(6): Jimmmm, Silverspawn, Seprix, pit, Ichimaru Gin, Library Adventurer, witherweaver
Pit(3): Awaclus, Faust
Seprix(1): Hydrad
Ichimaru Gin(2): GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer
Not Voting: nobody
Day Ends now!
6 were needed to lynch.
-
Awaclus was lynched! He was a vanilla townie, a simple fan.
Thread Locked!
-
Night begins in a few hours.
-
Night begins now and ends at 12:30 PM Central Time Tuesday the 21st of April.
-
Day 2 Start!
Somehow in the lag between another preview being posted, someone hacked into theory's account, and permanently banned Jimmmmm. He was a vanilla townie.
-
uhhh? ok. thats interesting.
-
oh wait. thats probably the flavor...
-
and now we know. Jimmm was a IC. nice townslip Jimmm!
-
So. people I'm looking at today are Library and Seprix I think
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
-
Did I vote for Sea Hag? I wanted to but I think I waited until it was too late.
-
And the final vote count is completely wrong, by the way. Don't rely on it. I know for a fact WW voted for Awaclus and I am sure Awaclus stopped self voting.
-
I think he was hammered before I voted.
-
Yeah, 7 people voted for Awaclus. All of the above listed barring Awaclus, and WW replaces him.
Since scum knows Awaclus is town, and a good tunnel target to boot, I will get to some analysis shortly.
Jimmmmmmm night kill felt like a safe move. He was pretty much IC at that point.
PPE: Sure, but you were going to vote for him anyways before IG did. So I'm throwing you in as well. I think you did the pro-town play though.
-
Awaclus was also voting for Pit.
Okay, my top two scum reads off the top of my head are Adventurer and Pit. Unlikely all 3 scum votes on 1 person, too unsafe.
-
Well, the choice in our QT was pretty unanimously, and on the offchance that no scum was in our QT, I'd prefer to keep our choice secret.
What I will say is that Seprix was in our QT and never posted, which is weird. Can you offer an explanation?
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
So how do you know there were two QTs tonight?
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
So how do you know there were two QTs tonight?
I'm pretty sure that's what it said; that the players were split in half with separate QTs.
-
Also, part of the QT content explicitly referenced the "other QT".
-
Yeah, there were two. The mod decreed it.
I'd also say the odds of scum not being in our QT was pretty low. But hey, it IS a possibility.
Why did I not post? Simple. Im bad with that whole QT thing, not to mention I did wipe all of my messages as it was getting cluttered. I realized too late that I couldn't access the thread, and by the time I thought of using the browser history to access the QT, it was locked. But yes, I have access to it now.
-
Also, part of the QT content explicitly referenced the "other QT".
Interesting. Ours didn't have that piece of information.
-
Also, part of the QT content explicitly referenced the "other QT".
Interesting. Ours didn't have that piece of information.
But that doesn't explain how I know this too. I'm pretty sure the mod said it somewhere, or at least implied it.
-
Aha. I got it.
This is the thread for the night-time choice of Player 2 (the players invited to this thread).
If we are P2, ergo, there must be a P1, ergo, there must be two QT threads.
-
Also, part of the QT content explicitly referenced the "other QT".
Interesting. Ours didn't have that piece of information.
That makes sense. I can share details if you want, but everyone in my QT knows what I'm talking about.
-
Firstly, I don't think we're supposed to directly quote from the qt like that. Also, how do you know there wasn't a P3 or P4?
I mean, it's looking very likely that it was just the two qts, but given the information we have, I don't think you could have known that for sure.
-
So Page is out there, right? Do you think it's worth it to skip the lynch today and instead decide on someone for the Page to kill?
Actually, do players flip with the cards they have?
-
Because if Jimmmm was the Page, that would be awful of course.
-
So Page is out there, right? Do you think it's worth it to skip the lynch today and instead decide on someone for the Page to kill?
Actually, do players flip with the cards they have?
They do.
-
Cool. So we know the Page is still out there. And he could be scum. We should definitely coordinate the killing. Giving up the lynch now means we get to lynch later. There's some problem however which involves the card we chose. Lynch & Kill just might be better.
-
Firstly, I don't think we're supposed to directly quote from the qt like that. Also, how do you know there wasn't a P3 or P4?
I mean, it's looking very likely that it was just the two qts, but given the information we have, I don't think you could have known that for sure.
Elaborate and creative interpretations of the word "half".
-
Um. Are you talking about the OP? Because those are like general guidelines now. There was no mention of the word "half" in our P2 qt.
-
The PM message I got said that the QT to which I was invited was for half of the remaining players.
-
The PM message I got said that the QT to which I was invited was for half of the remaining players.
Man, WW, what's wrong with you? Reading PMs is the biggest scumtell of them all!
-
Oh...yeah. I pretty much just followed the link. I see where you guys are coming from now.
-
The PM message I got said that the QT to which I was invited was for half of the remaining players.
Man, WW, what's wrong with you? Reading PMs is the biggest scumtell of them all!
Only before the game starts!
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
I think we should definitely share the information. Scum knows at least one card already + there's a good chance that they were part of both qts + even if they were all in the same, they have a 33% chance to get the other one's card + i don't think they gain much from knowing our qt's card.
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
I think we should definitely share the information. Scum knows at least one card already + there's a good chance that they were part of both qts + even if they were all in the same, they have a 33% chance to get the other one's card + i don't think they gain much from knowing our qt's card.
Hm? If you're referring to Seprix: If there were no scum in our QT, then Seprix's admission doesn't give scum any new information.
-
Thought on sharing separated QT info? My guess is that there isn't too much harm, as the chance that all three scum were in only one of the QTs is the lesser likely one.
I think we should definitely share the information. Scum knows at least one card already + there's a good chance that they were part of both qts + even if they were all in the same, they have a 33% chance to get the other one's card + i don't think they gain much from knowing our qt's card.
And what's the upside of claiming? I think it would actually be better for town if scum didn't know the card we chose.
-
We should most certainly lynch today. If someone posts a bolded Call in thread I'm giving them beaucoup town points.
By the by, I agree with you Hydrad, that was a great choice of kill.
Vote:Hydrad
-
Vote: Library
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Ah. The Lady Gray in Ice returns.
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Vote: IG That'll be my preliminary vote for Day 2 until someone convinces me otherwise. Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
FYI: After tonight I will be out of town without my computer for 2-3 days.
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Vote: IG That'll be my preliminary vote for Day 2 until someone convinces me otherwise. Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
FYI: After tonight I will be out of town without my computer for 2-3 days.
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oops I forgot there was no modify button again and clicked quote. I really need to preview posts before I click post...
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Vote: IG That'll be my preliminary vote for Day 2 until someone convinces me otherwise. Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
FYI: After tonight I will be out of town without my computer for 2-3 days.
What did he do? Care to enlighten the court of Mafiascum affairs?
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Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
Yes.
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I also oppose letting people know which card we chose in our qt.
phone post
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Yeah, what did IG do?
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I'm fine with letting people know.
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vote: Hydrad
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Should I claim?
Why would IG claim?
Um. Because people are pushing my lynch and the deadline is close.
There are, like, two votes on Ichi?
Oh wait really? Nevermind then. Just more scum points to Awaclus.
By his reasoning I mean what he was saying about getting Ichi to claim. If he is VT, that makes sense from his viewpoint.
Oh man... IG should have claimed after all... He might have said something. Who asks to claim and then says they're just VT?
I think it's important to ask in general, since I tend to claim when I don't need to I guess.
Claiming VT is bad because it helps scum with POE to target possible PR's instead of you.
So... You were going to do it anyways?
No. I wanted to hear people's opinions on it. It turns out I had nowhere near as many votes on me as I had thought. Also, it gives information whether people tell you to claim/not claim.
Wrong choice. I'm town, and I believe scum has lurked in an attempt to make me as a proxy lynch.
What's the point in asking to claim if I was going to do it regardless of what anyone said?
What's the point in asking to claim at all? That's mainly the part that I don't like, just by asking to claim, you're trying to imply that you have an important role as town. When you claim that of course you're likely to be lying, but if you imply it and then don't claim it seems even more suspicious.
I think it's important to ask in general, since I tend to claim when I don't need to I guess.
Claiming VT is bad because it helps scum with POE to target possible PR's instead of you.
Your explaination of why you asked assumes you would have claimed if you hadn't asked, but why do either?
It seems to me that asking whether you should claim is a clear attempt to imply that you're a PR. I mean, if you're going to claim vanilla town, why ask? What's the harm in that? I mean, I don't see the point in claiming vanilla town, but I don't see any harm in it either. If you're vanilla town, why claim at all? Unless you're going to lie and say you're a PR to keep from getting lynched, which seems more likely a mafia move, but is very plausible as town also.
Claiming VT is bad because it gives scum more information and limits their pool for possible town PR's.
Okay. So wouldn't that mean that if you're asking to claim then you're implying you're a PR? Or were you considering claiming mafia?
Anyway, I don't see how claiming VT gives anyone more information. As far as I'm concerned, everyone claims VT by default, and there's always people who are lying. Lying out loud or otherwise doesn't seem to make much difference.
I think I quoted all the relevant suspicious posts along with my posts about why they're suspicious.
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I dug into IG's logic, but I guess I didn't dig deep enough.
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vote: Hydrad
what is this vote for? If I'm scum then scum already knows what we picked.
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I dug into IG's logic, but I guess I didn't dig deep enough.
What does this mean? I'm obviously in the right. No one else seemed to think that me asking to claim meant anything special.
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I don't believe Hydrad is a good lynch.. don't really see why Ichi was scummy .. he just seems like Ichi.
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I dug into IG's logic, but I guess I didn't dig deep enough.
What does this mean? I'm obviously in the right. No one else seemed to think that me asking to claim meant anything special.
oh obviously.
I just don't get how that would not be suspicious, but no one else seems to think that. Am I missing something?
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I dug into IG's logic, but I guess I didn't dig deep enough.
What does this mean? I'm obviously in the right. No one else seemed to think that me asking to claim meant anything special.
oh obviously.
I just don't get how that would not be suspicious, but no one else seems to think that. Am I missing something?
No, I'm with you, actually.
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Um why?
You're both just wrong. I don't see what Library is seeing. I spelled it out as best I could yesterday, but apparently I failed in getting my points across.
The point is, it's a good idea to ask whether or not to claim whether you're a PR or not, since claiming as a VT can also be harmful to town--since it gives scum information and helps them with their POE. If you're disputing that idea, fine. If not, I fail to see how any of your accusations make sense. I think arguing that claiming VT is fine and dandy and doesn't hurt town at all is also nonsensical, but whatever.
No one thinks that asking to claim like "OMG I'm a PR, should I claaaaaaaaaaaaim now guyz?" is a good idea.
Obviously, if it's like that, there's no point in it. However, I think my actions fall well outside that realm.
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Yeah, reading over your summary of responses to me, you do doubt the harm caused by claiming as a VT. That explains everything I guess.
I'm tired and going to bed soon. I'm sure others will explain why claiming VT can be bad. I thought I already had, but I guess people just chose to ignore it.
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IG your towny now! congratz!
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
I don't get it. Ichi has since claimed VT?
How do you know that everyone was a VT?
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I think I like vote: Witherweaver right now.
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It wouldn't be Mafia if you didn't.
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By his reasoning I mean what he was saying about getting Ichi to claim. If he is VT, that makes sense from his viewpoint.
Oh man... IG should have claimed after all... He might have said something. Who asks to claim and then says they're just VT?
I like this line of thinking, which I missed before, though I'm not too convinced that Ichi wouldn't act that way if he were a VT. The whole thing comes off null for Ichi, and this particularly gives me a strong town read on Seprix.
Ichi was town the game where he claimed at L-a jillion, right?
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
Okay, and now that I can read I see you're explaining what you were saying in the previous quote.
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Slight town on Faust. Unsure on Library, still on the scum side. Still feel the same about Pit, and
Vote: Silverspawn.
Slight less town on GreyICE.
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Quick question here. silver seems towny to me. What's your rationale? I mean, maybe I missed something.
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Well, unvote. That was not what I expected.
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First, acting by policy is artificial. It requires no adjustment to game state, behaviors, etc. It's therefore a very easy thing to do: you get to take a position without having to do any work, and it's not easy to take positions on things as scum. You worry about everyone analyzing your motivations.
Second, he wanted to lynch Awaclus more when it was fairly likely Awaclus was town.
Third, it's a bit of a pressure vote because he hasn't been active.
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That's actually a decent case.
Vote: Silverspawn
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Especially the second part.
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
I didn't claim PR. I didn't claim VT. I didn't claim period.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What would be stupid is claiming unnecessarily like you apparently wanted me to do.
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
I didn't claim PR. I didn't claim VT. I didn't claim period.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What would be stupid is claiming unnecessarily like you apparently wanted me to do.
The idea is thus: the "should I claim?" thing is more indicative of a PR (or fakeclaim PR) than of VT. (You can argue this is not true, but it's the premise.) If you accept Awaclus' idea that roles comes through the cards instead of through native PRs, then this means you were most likely fake claiming, and therefore scum.
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I think I am going to swear off most 'policy votes' now. Policy told me to lynch Awaclus, and it was wrong.
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I'm willing to concede SS voting for Awaclus because I did it too. I found him to be scummy. I didn't really see any redeeming quality to his plans, but I will base this on my inexperience rather than his incompetence.
SS inactive is a bit odd, but he's probably busy with finals or something. Nothing huge.
I don't see how the case against SS is all that great.
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Do you see a case that is great?
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
I didn't claim PR. I didn't claim VT. I didn't claim period.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What would be stupid is claiming unnecessarily like you apparently wanted me to do.
The idea is thus: the "should I claim?" thing is more indicative of a PR (or fakeclaim PR) than of VT. (You can argue this is not true, but it's the premise.) If you accept Awaclus' idea that roles comes through the cards instead of through native PRs, then this means you were most likely fake claiming, and therefore scum.
Exactly. Glad I'm not the only one.
(Last post before I leave for the weekend.)
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Do you see a case that is great?
Nothing that I can formulate right now. But that's not a good reason to push something that isn't a great lynchee.
Let's see.. We have Pit and IG as potential better cases against SS. IG never really did answer the opposing questions.
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Well, damn... I never had a town read about Pit, but his posts don't look great to me upon reading them right now.
vote: Pit
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The point trying to be made here is that if you're a VT (pretty much everyone come D1), why did you feel the need to ask to claim? It was stupid no matter what you ended up doing. Claiming VT was bad. Lying and claiming PR is scummy. No matter what you say, you look bad, so why ask to claim at all? Were you just not thinking?
I didn't claim PR. I didn't claim VT. I didn't claim period.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What would be stupid is claiming unnecessarily like you apparently wanted me to do.
The idea is thus: the "should I claim?" thing is more indicative of a PR (or fakeclaim PR) than of VT. (You can argue this is not true, but it's the premise.) If you accept Awaclus' idea that roles comes through the cards instead of through native PRs, then this means you were most likely fake claiming, and therefore scum.
Exactly. Glad I'm not the only one.
(Last post before I leave for the weekend.)
I do disagree with the premise. I think Awaclus' idea seems likely, however.
The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
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And Seprix is soooo dissapointed scum!Ichi didn't fakeclaim a PR D1 in this setup.
Pit's an easy mislynch and someone I find very difficult to read. I'm not going to accept Seprix painting me and then making an easy vote on someone else. I also find his out of hand dismissal of ss suspect.
vote: Seprix
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The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
It's not a bad idea, though. Are you really going to jump so quickly into the fray with a VT claim? I don't see anybody doing that, though maybe it seems like you would. You really can't tell me why you wanted to claim so badly, can you?
By the way, I was just voting Pit to get a discussion going (like WW voted SS to get a discussion going, which worked).
I dismiss SS because I do not see a strong case. I think it's far more likely you're scum than he. Pit is someone I am not sure of.
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I do disagree with the premise. I think Awaclus' idea seems likely, however.
The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
I mean.. why was it good town play?
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The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
It's not a bad idea, though. Are you really going to jump so quickly into the fray with a VT claim? I don't see anybody doing that, though maybe it seems like you would. You really can't tell me why you wanted to claim so badly, can you?
By the way, I was just voting Pit to get a discussion going (like WW voted SS to get a discussion going, which worked).
I dismiss SS because I do not see a strong case. I think it's far more likely you're scum than he. Pit is someone I am not sure of.
Where did you get the idea I was eager to claim? If I had wanted to claim "so badly", I would have.
Dude. If you really think I'm the scummiest out of SS, pit, Ichi, why not vote me?
I do disagree with the premise. I think Awaclus' idea seems likely, however.
The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
I mean.. why was it good town play?
Well with how people are getting all weirded out about it, maybe it was bad town play. I am more willing to accept criticism as town than scum though. I still maintain that asking and then not claiming (because I was nowhere near in as much danger as I had thought) is many times better than claiming unnecessarily. Though apparently in this setup, claiming VT is less harmful than normal--at least on D1.
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Well you have to admit that you asking if you should claim looks odd to all of us there. You claiming would have also been very odd.
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Anyway, my point was "that would be bad scum play!" is not a convincing argument if it would also be bad town play, because then it's established as bad play and there's no reason to believe town over scum.
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Anyway, my point was "that would be bad scum play!" is not a convincing argument if it would also be bad town play, because then it's established as bad play and there's no reason to believe town over scum.
I disagree. I think town is more likely to make mistakes in general. The difference between how I play town and scum is how much I edit and reread my posts before submitting them. As town, I barely give a second glance. I am much more suspicious of people whose posts seem sanitized and never say anything suspicious or noteworthy.
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Anyway, my point was "that would be bad scum play!" is not a convincing argument if it would also be bad town play, because then it's established as bad play and there's no reason to believe town over scum.
I disagree. I think town is more likely to make mistakes in general.
Ah, the old 'is anything truly real' question.. Been studying Descartes, have we? :)
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And my vote is a weapon, IG. A weapon. I know who you are already. I do not know Pit.
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And my vote is a weapon, IG. A weapon. I know who you are already. I do not know Pit.
You're not making any sense at all. I'm not scum; you can't threaten me.
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I'm not threatening you though. Lol.
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I'm not threatening you though. Lol.
I was going to say in an earlier post, I feel like we're talking past each other.
So what you're saying is that you "know" me in the sense you know my playstyle somewhat. Yet you are less familiar with Pit it seems. I understand.
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Yes.
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vote: faust
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SS inactive is a bit odd, but he's probably busy with finals or something. Nothing huge.
what finals?
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@XP: uhm... not a huge deal, but the majority of your vote counts seem to be off this game. and, well, the night lasted like way longer than announced
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Vote Count 1.Final.silver
IG (1): GreyICE
Pit (2): faust, Awaclus
Awaclus (7): Pit, silverspawn , Seprix, Jimmmmm, IG, LA, WW{{L-2}}
Seprix (1): Hydrad
With 11 alive it took 7 to lynch because WW uber-hammered
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uh, that's of course not an L-2. It's L-1 actually
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uh, that's of course not an L-2. It's L-1 actually
*L-(-1)
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oh wait. thats probably the flavor...
indeed, though I think this comes more likely from town.
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IG I think is looking good here. He unvoted Awaclus and only voted for him because we were getting nothing else done. That's also a possible scum move, but he gets at least mild town points.
GreyIce is looking not so great for not being there at the deadline and having his vote somewhere in the aether.
pit jumped on the wagon really early and pretty bluntly. slight town
WW is towny. His case on me is sorta decent... the policy thing is overvalued though. But I think it comes from town. Also the uber-hammer doesn't feel like a scum move.
Seprix is looking not so great. third on the wagon, jumped on him at a convenient moment (though, really, Awaclus played in a way which could also cause town!Seprix to do that).
faust is scum. He has like no presence, keeps pushing the pit lynch and wasn't around for the deadline. The suggestion not to share our powers was also pretty bad. You don't know how much town utility sharing them will have. Maybe we need to coordinate them?
vote: let's share powers guys
Jimmmm is looking kinda dead, but really towny. LA is scummy just for PoE. Might reread him later.
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Vote Count 2.1
Faust: Silverspawn
Seprix: Ichimaru Gin
Pit: Seprix
Silverspawn (2): Faust, witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin: LibraryAdventurer
Hydrad: GreyICE
LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad
Please tell me I got it right this time.
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well, rereading faust I'm actually not so sure anymore. which is a shame, because I was really convinced there for a while.
he starts off strong, then sort of fades away after a few days, and ends up missing the deadline. He did say that he'd be off for like 10 hours (less than 10 hours before the deadline), but it's still kind of odd that he didn't check when the deadline would be.
He also makes a pretty big argument for why page isn't that good, votes for Lost city, but then just forgets about it for the rest of the day.
Here is one of his read lists:
Since things are stalling out, why don't we do one of these?
Want to lynch: Ichi, pit
Meh: Hydrad, Awaclus, WW, LA, silver
Won't lynch: Jimmmmm, Grey, Seprix
I really don't like his want to lynch list. It's way too easy.
Putting Jimmm on won't lynch is null. I would have suspected faust had he not found Jimmmm's slip genuine.
Aside from that though... not so much there. pretty much just a medium scum read now
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Please tell me I got it right this time.
uhm... no. Hydrad should vote for LA (unless 'Library' is not an accepted abbreviation) and WW was voting for me first (unless the list is not supposed to be in order)
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let's see LA
About the townslip? He gave away that he's probably town. Not much to say about it.
what the fuck ???
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Okay, so
- makes comments about discussion on day1 not being important. wrong wrong wrong but not scummy
- makes a good joke (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.0;all)
- some decent posts about two threads
- votes awaclus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480978#msg480978)
- says a lot of nothing for a while, but not necessarily the kind of nothing which you say in order to say something
oops. sorry, I messed up the quote tags there. hope it doesn't cause confusion...
it does. just re-post the corrected version next time please.
- makes some more jokes
- has a dog that's scum
- says some more nothing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483776#msg483776), then votes IG. this is bad.
- says some stuff about claiming which is wrong (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483791#msg483791), but understandable
- hammers Awaclus as to not have a no-lynch. unfortunately this is null
day 2
- votes for IG because "what he did at the end of day 1 was bad" and lists a bunch of quotes which make him [IG] seem really towny. I think this is probably not how advisedByScumPartners!nooby!LA would start day 2.
- is off for the weakend.
meeeh... this all adds up pretty nullish in my book.
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so in conclusion town <-> scum
WW - IG - Hydrad - pit - GreyICE - LA - Seprix - faust
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I'm not moving my vote until I get to ask Pit some questions. I'm trying to get something going here.
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I'm not moving my vote until I get to ask Pit some questions. I'm trying to get something going here.
Is anything preventing you from asking?
I mostly agree with silvers thoughts. The only things i'd change on his town <-> scum list is swapping seprix and faust + swapping hydrad and IG
(and my name with silver)
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Uh... So, why have you been inactive these past few days. You posted a lot, and then you kind of faded away.
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Uh... So, why have you been inactive these past few days. You posted a lot, and then you kind of faded away.
I'm generally not writing that much, because it's hard for me to find stuff to post about and half of the times i want to post something, i think way to much about the post and end up not posting it. + the last week has been extremely busy for me. I'll try to make at least one post per day from now on.
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Eh... I really can't find anything all that scummy about you.. I don't understand the hype. I thought I'd get it, but I really don't.
unvote
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Why Faust? (to Silver)
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Why Faust? (to Silver)
I think I answered that?
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Okay I posted that before reading this page.
Unvote
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are we sharing powers now? Unless anyone explains why we shouldn't, I'll do it in a while
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are we sharing powers now? Unless anyone explains why we shouldn't, I'll do it in a while
Just the possible benefit of keeping scum in the dark.
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if three scum are randomly distributed into two equally likely areas, the chance for all three of them to be in the same one is 1 * 1/2 + 1/2 = 1/4
so we only have 25% to tell scum anything, but we have 100% to help coordination.
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it's actually a little bit less, because the chance for scum two and three is less than 50%, but not by much
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I don't get the best feeling from faust's play so far either. However, given what I know about the card we picked in our qt, I kind of agree with his not wanting to share it.
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I will say although I'm in favor of claiming our claim helps scum a decent amount but doesn't really help town. That is if scum doesn't already know about it.
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fine. no claiming then.
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Nothing going on? faust? Don't you want to explain me why you're town or something?
Well, I guess I'll do another reread. This was Awaclus' wagon:
Pit, silverspawn , Seprix, Jimmmmm, IG, LA, WW
I think I want to look at IG and Pit there, maybe LA
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Well why can't just one qt claim their choice? There's really only downsides to claiming the role we ended up picking, but maybe the other qt's is different.
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I'll turn this into a silly point game thing. not to be taken too seriously (IG):
#42 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480617#msg480617): Says he hasn't read the setup. Jokey start. (Apr 8) (no, forum, this is not a smiley)
#50 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480654#msg480654): Casually rates the town slip as genuine. +2 (2 total)
#55 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480666#msg480666): Buddies GreyICE. +1 (1 total)
#179 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480998#msg480998): Says Awaclus is "more engaged than his usual town self".
#203 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480998#msg480998): Makes a decent point about too much joking being usable to cover up scuminess. (Apr 9)
#261 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg481349#msg481349): Makes a decent point about long days being good. Town point for continuously making sense +1 (3 total)
#299 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg481955#msg481955): Says he doesn't like the WW wagon and that Seprix is scummy for pushing it. >> rereads WW wagon << He's right. +2 (5 total) (Apr 12)
#338 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482121#msg482121): Makes his speech about his new playstyle. (Apr 13)
#345 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482133#msg482133): Expresses new confidence in his vote on Seprix after he made a long post.
#359 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482240#msg482240): Faust makes a bad vote on IG. I'll give IG a town point for that. +1 (6 total)
#361 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482347#msg482347): Says Faust is feeling disingenuous. I agree! Town points. +2 (8 total)
#369 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482628#msg482628): Points out that the game is stalling. (Apr 15)
#380 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482722#msg482722) Complains about Awaclus' reads being a copy of faust's and says that voting for him because he changed his playstyle is bad. Feels a lot more genuine to me now than it did as I first read it. +4 (12 total)
#383 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482726#msg482726): Reads list. A good list. +2 (14 total)
#391 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482756#msg482756): Says he cares less about the game because everyone is lurking. That's genuine, but it could also be said by scum.
#414 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482981#msg482981): Makes a lot of sense in response to a WW post. +2 (16 total) (Apr 16)
#424 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483018#msg483018): Insists that he isn't using his meta change to hide anything. I like this because I now feel that it's true, and I can see town!IG doing this more than scum!IG, because as town he knows that he isn't hiding, whereas as scum he should begin to feel that we figured him out because he changed styles. Also says something about Seprix which is null. I don't think the post in question was that bad. +5 (21 total)
#473 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483603#msg483603): Says he is happy to lynch a lurker. That sets off alarm bells (even though I can easily see town saying it). +2 (3 total)(Apr 18)
#488 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483674#msg483674): Votes Awaclus. Unfortunately, Awaclus has warranted the vote, so this is null.
#497 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483700#msg483700): Asks if he should claim. Fine.
#560 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483810#msg483810): Unvotes Awaclus because he feels like low resistance. This is fantastic. +7 (23 total) (Apr 19)
#570 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483825#msg483825): Puts Awaclus at L-1 because time is running out. Understandable, but he is lynching a town, so I have to give scum points. +3 (6 total)
-------------- Day 2 ------------------
#599 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485227#msg485227): Messes up a setup thing. +1 (24 total) (Apr 23)
#628 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485369#msg485369): Says he's obviously in the right about the claim thing. Which is true. +1 (25 total) (Apr 24)
Then he says some more things... nothing stands out (but it's not like he's inactive)
PPE: That makes sense. Have another town point. +1 (26 total)
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Final Score: 26/6
I sincerely hope you're not scum, because then I'm reaching all the wrong conclusions, but for now I'd say a strong town read.
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Though I'd actually say let's not claim for now. We don't really need to claim our power in order for it to be useful.
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that took longer than expected (and ended up very differently than I expected), so I'll do the rest later...
now, everyone comment and talk about and stuff.
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Nothing going on? faust? Don't you want to explain me why you're town or something?
It's the weekend, I've just moved. Give me some time; you'll get your response.
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Final Score: 26/6
I sincerely hope you're not scum, because then I'm reaching all the wrong conclusions, but for now I'd say a strong town read.
Don't worry; I'm not scum.
And yeah, this game stalling is not good at all.
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Nothing going on? faust? Don't you want to explain me why you're town or something?
It's the weekend, I've just moved.
Oh, well, in that case I hope it's all going nicely, even if you're scum this game.
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About the townslip? He gave away that he's probably town. Not much to say about it.
what the fuck ???
what do you mean? I couldn't think of anything interesting to say about it. I thought it was pretty self-explainatory.
oops. sorry, I messed up the quote tags there. hope it doesn't cause confusion...
it does. just re-post the corrected version next time please.
Sorry, it's frustrating to not be able to modify posts, but I can see why the rule is there. I have to get more used to using the preview button.
- makes some more jokes
- has a dog that's scum
To me, this is a big part of what the game is about. :)
- says some more nothing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483776#msg483776), then votes IG. this is bad.
- says some stuff about claiming which is wrong (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg483791#msg483791), but understandable
- votes for IG because "what he did at the end of day 1 was bad" and lists a bunch of quotes which make him [IG] seem really towny. I think this is probably not how advisedByScumPartners!nooby!LA would start day 2.
I quoted all the posts that make him seem suspicious to me... I just don't get how that could be 'towny'. Please explain to me what I'm missing here. I just can't think of any legitimate reason why someone would ask if they should claim their role, especially if they're vanilla town.
I don't think not being around for deadline should be counted against anyone. We all live in different time zones. And (hopefully) we all sleep and have jobs and do other things which involve being away from the computer sometimes.
Anyway, I don't have much of a read on most other people. It's a huge departure from IRL mafia. I haven't figured out how to discern lies with only printed words on the screen to go on. So how do you do this?
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I could teach you things, Lib, but we're in the middle of a game. :p
I don't like SS throwing out town cred to IG like candy. I've looked at this from all angles, and IG asking to claim just stinks like a rotten fish. There's been no answer to this question, only dodging the question and telling me why my reasoning is wrong.
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There's nothing preventing you from offering some general helpful advice to him. Unless he's your scumpartner and you don't want to give him scum tips in-thread.
If you don't want to listen to people, that's your prerogative, but I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.
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Again, you're doing that vague thing again. Answer the question, and nothing more. No narratives, no accusations, no flavor.
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This is becoming a dead horse. I've answered the question already. Apparently my answer doesn't convince either you or Library--everyone else apparently has no trouble with it. I believe I've more than adequately explained myself against your accusations, which are obviously baseless imo.
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...I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.
There's been no reasons given by you or anyone else. All that's been said is that obviously I'm wrong. I'd really like to hear why.
This is how you responded to the arguments made against you (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485363#msg485363):
You're both just wrong.
The point is, it's a good idea to ask whether or not to claim whether you're a PR or not, since claiming as a VT can also be harmful to town--since it gives scum information and helps them with their POE. If you're disputing that idea, fine. If not, I fail to see how any of your accusations make sense. I think arguing that claiming VT is fine and dandy and doesn't hurt town at all is also nonsensical, but whatever.
You answer here assumes that you would have claimed if you hadn't asked to claim. No where here do you explain your need to claim in the first place. Why claim and why ask to claim?
And in answer to me saying I don't see the harm in claiming VT, you just say I'm wrong and it's nonsensical to disagree with you.
When others tried to clarify what I was saying (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485612#msg485612), this is what you said:
The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
What you're saying here is "I am right and you are wrong because what you're saying is stupid." There's no explaination here.
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...I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.
There's been no reasons given by you or anyone else. All that's been said is that obviously I'm wrong. I'd really like to hear why.
This is how you responded to the arguments made against you (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485363#msg485363):
You're both just wrong.
The point is, it's a good idea to ask whether or not to claim whether you're a PR or not, since claiming as a VT can also be harmful to town--since it gives scum information and helps them with their POE. If you're disputing that idea, fine. If not, I fail to see how any of your accusations make sense. I think arguing that claiming VT is fine and dandy and doesn't hurt town at all is also nonsensical, but whatever.
You answer here assumes that you would have claimed if you hadn't asked to claim. No where here do you explain your need to claim in the first place. Why claim and why ask to claim?
And in answer to me saying I don't see the harm in claiming VT, you just say I'm wrong and it's nonsensical to disagree with you.
When others tried to clarify what I was saying (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg485612#msg485612), this is what you said:
The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.
What you're saying here is "I am right and you are wrong because what you're saying is stupid." There's no explaination here.
Your first statement is patently false. Both of you just refuse to accept what I (and others) have stated on this matter.
I guess you both fundamentally misinterpret my intentions behind asking to claim, which surprise! was just me asking whether I should claim or not. Nothing about being a PR, nothing about manipulation or that I was going to claim regardless of whatever people's reponses were. If that was true, I would have actually claimed. It's not my job to convince every single person I'm town. Your guys' interpretation of my behavior has gained no traction and will likely not, because it is wrong. There is nothing scummy about what I did.
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fine. no claiming then.
It's curious how you find me scummy for not wanting to share powers, and push for sharing powers, then someone else agrees with me and suddenly you're all like "well, okay then".
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Here is one of his read lists:
Since things are stalling out, why don't we do one of these?
Want to lynch: Ichi, pit
Meh: Hydrad, Awaclus, WW, LA, silver
Won't lynch: Jimmmmm, Grey, Seprix
I really don't like his want to lynch list. It's way too easy.
#383 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg482726#msg482726): Reads list. A good list. +2 (14 total)
So having a "want to lynch" list of town!Awaclus, verytownie!Seprix and town!me is good, but my reads list is bad because it's "too easy"? Sorry, but I don't get this at all.
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Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
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Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?
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I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.
On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.
On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.
Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)
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Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?
You were in this game D1 right? I mean the insane overconfidence in his reads. He pushed the Awaclus wagon super hard. Accusing people of a bunch of stuff that isn't really scummy and/or I don't actually see as being the case. WW's "terrible play" etc. It feels fake. Granted, I don't have the best track record of reading him, but he's capable of emulating his scumplay and has been rewarded with townreads for acting this way before as scum.
I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.
On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.
On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.
Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)
What do you mean, you never claim as VT? People claim as VTs all the time. Outside of massclaims too. I was approaching it more calmly earlier, but this constant harping on the same point gets old. The burden of proof isn't on me. I did what I did and people can make of it what they will.
What this really comes down to is them accusing me of softclaiming a PR--which is crazy. I mean, I guess my reputation is that I looooove to fakeclaim as scum (though most of the times I've fakeclaimed, it hasn't been my idea), but really, that would be such a colossal misplay as scum, I'm insulted.
I said earlier, I'm willing to accept when I make mistakes. With how some people have reacted, maybe me asking to claim was poor play. It sounds like we're mostly on the same page actually.
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Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?
You were in this game D1 right? I mean the insane overconfidence in his reads. He pushed the Awaclus wagon super hard. Accusing people of a bunch of stuff that isn't really scummy and/or I don't actually see as being the case. WW's "terrible play" etc. It feels fake. Granted, I don't have the best track record of reading him, but he's capable of emulating his scumplay and has been rewarded with townreads for acting this way before as scum.
I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.
On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.
On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.
Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)
What do you mean, you never claim as VT? People claim as VTs all the time. Outside of massclaims too. I was approaching it more calmly earlier, but this constant harping on the same point gets old. The burden of proof isn't on me. I did what I did and people can make of it what they will.
What this really comes down to is them accusing me of softclaiming a PR--which is crazy. I mean, I guess my reputation is that I looooove to fakeclaim as scum (though most of the times I've fakeclaimed, it hasn't been my idea), but really, that would be such a colossal misplay as scum, I'm insulted.
I said earlier, I'm willing to accept when I make mistakes. With how some people have reacted, maybe me asking to claim was poor play. It sounds like we're mostly on the same page actually.
Well, I remember feeling differently about Seprix D1. But I admittedly haven't been too focused on this game, and I'd have to reread to be more certain. What I know is that his play today feels genuine. But yeah, rereading may be good.
I guess people do claim as VTs, but that's mostly bad play. In general, claiming VT is bad for town.
Lastly, anyone can screw up as scum. I mean, I'd say you screwed up there as either alignment. As scum, it's always possible that you asked to claim knowing perfectly well that people would tell you not to, and then use this for towncred - which is a stretch, but not completely impossible. So it's not necessarily misplay.
Anyway. We probably should move on from this. I don't think it gives conclusive evidence about your alignment either way.
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This is becoming a dead horse. I've answered the question already. Apparently my answer doesn't convince either you or Library--everyone else apparently has no trouble with it. I believe I've more than adequately explained myself against your accusations, which are obviously baseless imo.
This is incredible. This is just incredible. You're not going to even answer the question, are you? If you could have, you would have by now.
Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
So I'm not townie because I'm doing crazy stuff? I just pointed out my bad play when I was sheeping. You're not answering a simple question. I'm done asking. Faust is right. I am beating a dead horse.
vote: IG
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Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.
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Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.
I agree with Faust; it isn't conclusive. The scum narrative is not nearly as poor as IG makes it out to be, though.
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Well, I gotta say silver rereading Ichi and then arriving at a different read feels sorta genuine.
unvote
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This is becoming a dead horse. I've answered the question already. Apparently my answer doesn't convince either you or Library--everyone else apparently has no trouble with it. I believe I've more than adequately explained myself against your accusations, which are obviously baseless imo.
This is incredible. This is just incredible. You're not going to even answer the question, are you? If you could have, you would have by now.
Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
So I'm not townie because I'm doing crazy stuff? I just pointed out my bad play when I was sheeping. You're not answering a simple question. I'm done asking. Faust is right. I am beating a dead horse.
vote: IG
I could see this coming from a mile away. Do I have to point out this is OMGUS?
It's not incredible. I've answered the question. You're doing this on purpose aren't you? I was the one who made the comment about beating a dead horse fyi.
Seprix is obv!scum here.
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Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.
I agree with Faust; it isn't conclusive. The scum narrative is not nearly as poor as IG makes it out to be, though.
You're waffling.
Also, GreyICE is still in this game, right? It's been a good while since we've heard anything from him. Or pit for that matter too.
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Vote: Library Adventurer
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Seprix is obv!scum here.
Can't tell if serious...
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Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.
I agree with Faust; it isn't conclusive. The scum narrative is not nearly as poor as IG makes it out to be, though.
You're waffling.
Also, GreyICE is still in this game, right? It's been a good while since we've heard anything from him. Or pit for that matter too.
No, I'm being honest. You're misrepresenting, or just not understanding.
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Seprix is obv!scum here.
Can't tell if serious...
He's either serious or trying to emulate scorned!Ichi. But it doesn't really sound any different than how he reacted to you in Deus Ex Machina.
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No, I'm being honest. You're misrepresenting, or just not understanding.
Which is it, slightly scummy, scummy, null?
I don't see why you can't pick one.
PPE: 2
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I mean. I guess "it depends" is a valid answer.
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No, I'm being honest. You're misrepresenting, or just not understanding.
Which is it, slightly scummy, scummy, null?
I don't see why you can't pick one.
PPE: 2
I said inconclusive; I don't think that's unclear. What I'm taking issue with is you dismissing the scum explanation as garbage; it isn't. That doesn't mean you're scum, it means I need more evidence. You can say I'm hedging so that I have the groundwork to vote for you later, but, hey, I might want to vote for you later.
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Vote: IG That'll be my preliminary vote for Day 2 until someone convinces me otherwise. Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
Can you explain why you are so 100% convinced, that he is scum? I think the current IG "wagon" isn't really good. I don't really see the question whether he should claim or not as a reason to push it so hard.
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I just can't think of any legitimate reason why someone would ask if they should claim their role, especially if they're vanilla town.
I feel like this has been answered a couple of times before. People should claim when they're about to get lynched, because that might prevent a mislynch. Rather than just claiming straight away, it is preferable to ask whether you should claim first, because maybe it is not necessary. This is the case independent of your role.
I don't think not being around for deadline should be counted against anyone. We all live in different time zones. And (hopefully) we all sleep and have jobs and do other things which involve being away from the computer sometimes.
That's fair, but there's a difference between missing the deadline unannounced and missing it after saying so first.
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fine. no claiming then.
It's curious how you find me scummy for not wanting to share powers, and push for sharing powers, then someone else agrees with me and suddenly you're all like "well, okay then".
I agree that my behavior is contradicting/inconsistent. Basically, what you did felt like you wanted to prevent town from gaining knowledge, which occupied my perception and I didn't really consider whether or not sharing our power is actually useful for town. Then I realized that it's not, which could easily be the case for yours too. So, yeah, forget that point.
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So having a "want to lynch" list of town!Awaclus, verytownie!Seprix and town!me is good, but my reads list is bad because it's "too easy"? Sorry, but I don't get this at all.
That's pretty clear though. Pit and IG are easily framable for lynches, but they aren't actually scummy. Awaclus, Seprix, and you are all harder to get lynched, but scummier this game. I'm totally behind what I said there.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
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Plus, faust is hard to get lynched.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
Eh.. Faust is a tunneling kind of guy.. I'm not sure what you mean by easy, exactly. Easy because he has a history of tunneling them? A scum!Faust might be conscious of this and want to change things to make it appear like he's really doing work to figure out who's scum.
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I could see this coming from a mile away.
Uh, no shit?
Do I have to point out this is OMGUS?
Don't be stupid.
It's not incredible. I've answered the question. You're doing this on purpose aren't you?
Where? I'd love to be mistaken, but it appears you have not answered the question.
Seprix is obv!scum here.
I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
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I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
This is a line of thinking that should next lead you to: "Who else is pursuing this target given that I've laid out a case?"
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I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
This is a line of thinking that should next lead you to: "Who else is pursuing this target given that I've laid out a case?"
Naturally.
...Library. Only guy who seems interested and truly invested. Pit somewhat was, but he's off the face of the earth now. Which is interesting.
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I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
This is a line of thinking that should next lead you to: "Who else is pursuing this target given that I've laid out a case?"
Naturally.
...Library. Only guy who seems interested and truly invested. Pit somewhat was, but he's off the face of the earth now. Which is interesting.
All else equal, I'd say that makes Pit look a little worse than Library. But, hey, those are the two scummiest through the game so far. What a coincidence!
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I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
This is a line of thinking that should next lead you to: "Who else is pursuing this target given that I've laid out a case?"
Naturally.
...Library. Only guy who seems interested and truly invested. Pit somewhat was, but he's off the face of the earth now. Which is interesting.
All else equal, I'd say that makes Pit look a little worse than Library. But, hey, those are the two scummiest through the game so far. What a coincidence!
You raise an interesting point.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
Eh.. Faust is a tunneling kind of guy.. I'm not sure what you mean by easy, exactly. Easy because he has a history of tunneling them? A scum!Faust might be conscious of this and want to change things to make it appear like he's really doing work to figure out who's scum.
pit is semi lurking and IG has the whole meta thing and a rivalry with faust. They take the least effort to believably tunnel as scum.
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I'm doubting myself right now, honestly. IG is just such an easy target. Awaclus was too, Joseph.. Ugh. I could very easily be wrong here.
This is a line of thinking that should next lead you to: "Who else is pursuing this target given that I've laid out a case?"
Naturally.
...Library. Only guy who seems interested and truly invested. Pit somewhat was, but he's off the face of the earth now. Which is interesting.
My last post was less than 2 hours before yours, "off the face of the earth" might be a bit exaggerated here.
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Is it necessary to be this flippant?
You are correct that I'm nearly always an easy or "default" wagon these days.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
Eh.. Faust is a tunneling kind of guy.. I'm not sure what you mean by easy, exactly. Easy because he has a history of tunneling them? A scum!Faust might be conscious of this and want to change things to make it appear like he's really doing work to figure out who's scum.
pit is semi lurking and IG has the whole meta thing and a rivalry with faust. They take the least effort to believably tunnel as scum.
Interesting. I never really thought of faust's and my interactions as a rivalry, but I can kind of see that I guess.
Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
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So he's scummy if he finds you scummy but scummy if he doesn't find you scummy?
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So he's scummy if he finds you scummy but scummy if he doesn't find you scummy?
Nope. And it's super annoying for you to try and frame everything I do as OMGUS of one form or another. Me finding him scummy originally had little to do with him agreeing with Library and making terrible points against me. I called him out for not voting me when he was trying to paint me earlier, and then he voted me in order to save face. Now he's reconsidering it, because it will make him look bad to just join all the easy wagons and push them. Or, he could be sincerely seeing that my wagon is bad and no one really gets heat for voting me like ever. My read on him has stayed relatively consistent since yesterday, and then him finding me scummy and not voting me, and then voting me, and now doubting his read on me. It has nothing to do with OMGUS, which is the obvious conclusion--except you would choose to believe that his read on me is the only thing that affects my read on him.
I'd expect you to see this, considering his interactions with you D1.
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Seriously. I will break free of this narrow OMGUS box people have me in.
PSA: Ichi does have reasons to find people scummy other than them voting him.
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Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
This statement reads like buddying you is scummy and finding you scummy is scummy. Because finding you scummy is, presumably, what you meant by "take the same tack he always does in regard to me", and "easier and attracts less attention" sounds like you're saying it's scummy.
Upon 10 or 20 rereads of this... what exactly are you trying to say?
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Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
This statement reads like buddying you is scummy and finding you scummy is scummy. Because finding you scummy is, presumably, what you meant by "take the same tack he always does in regard to me", and "easier and attracts less attention" sounds like you're saying it's scummy.
Upon 10 or 20 rereads of this... what exactly are you trying to say?
Now you're talking about faust--someone completely different. And...you were talking about faust the whole time? I thought we were talking about Seprix.
The way it reads, I can see how that comes across. It was not my intention though. It is true that I will suspect faust to some degree almost always--he always does that to me. Given his track record, I would say that him finding me scummy is probably a null tell. The point is, when someone does the same thing like this all the time--including when they're scum, it's difficult to read any meaning into it. That doesn't stop it from giving me bad feelings about him though.
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Oh. Wow. I didn't even mention Seprix's name in my earlier response, did I? That whole post is about Seprix, not faust.
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Silver and I were talking about Faust, and you responded to Silver. I guess that explains why I wasn't understanding.
So what is the same track that Seprix always takes in regards to you, then?
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Wait I'm confused:
I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
Eh.. Faust is a tunneling kind of guy.. I'm not sure what you mean by easy, exactly. Easy because he has a history of tunneling them? A scum!Faust might be conscious of this and want to change things to make it appear like he's really doing work to figure out who's scum.
pit is semi lurking and IG has the whole meta thing and a rivalry with faust. They take the least effort to believably tunnel as scum.
Interesting. I never really thought of faust's and my interactions as a rivalry, but I can kind of see that I guess.
Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
You even use Faust's name here.
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In that post I was talking about faust. In the other post, I thought you were replying to the stuff I had said about Seprix one post prior to that one.
PPE: Ok
#750 is about faust
#752 is about Seprix. Because I thought you were talking about him. Your reference to "him being scummy regardless of whether he thinks you're scum or not" made me think you were talking about Seprix since he had just changed his mind about me it seemed.
#755 is about faust because I realized that's who you were actually talking about.
I should probably stop using pronouns altogether I guess.
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Okay, my fault for not quoting in my response.
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Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
This statement reads like buddying you is scummy and finding you scummy is scummy. Because finding you scummy is, presumably, what you meant by "take the same tack he always does in regard to me", and "easier and attracts less attention" sounds like you're saying it's scummy.
Upon 10 or 20 rereads of this... what exactly are you trying to say?
So I'm not the only one who doesn't know what the heck he's saying. Lol
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Anything to cover besides IG?
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Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
This statement reads like buddying you is scummy and finding you scummy is scummy. Because finding you scummy is, presumably, what you meant by "take the same tack he always does in regard to me", and "easier and attracts less attention" sounds like you're saying it's scummy.
Upon 10 or 20 rereads of this... what exactly are you trying to say?
So I'm not the only one who doesn't know what the heck he's saying. Lol
Is this supposed to be funny? It's not, and I thought jokes were the scummiest thing ever?
Anything to cover besides IG?
Why ask a question? Why not cover something yourself? I think I know why.
I don't find your uninformed yet casual insults amusing in the slightest. Just because WW and I experienced a misunderstanding concerning one or two of my posts does not validate your complete inability to read me properly, nor your purposeful ignorance and discountenance of people's metas.
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Vote: IG That'll be my preliminary vote for Day 2 until someone convinces me otherwise. Am I really the only one who thinks what he did at the end of day 1 was suspicious?
Can you explain why you are so 100% convinced, that he is scum? I think the current IG "wagon" isn't really good. I don't really see the question whether he should claim or not as a reason to push it so hard.
I'm not 100% convinced and never said I was. I don't intend to be pushing a 'wagon'. I was only trying to understand why me (and Seprix) seemed to be the only ones who found IG suspicious. To me it seemed obvious. And I mean obviously suspicious, not obviously mafia. big difference.
I just can't think of any legitimate reason why someone would ask if they should claim their role, especially if they're vanilla town.
I feel like this has been answered a couple of times before. People should claim when they're about to get lynched, because that might prevent a mislynch. Rather than just claiming straight away, it is preferable to ask whether you should claim first, because maybe it is not necessary. This is the case independent of your role.
Maybe I'm all wrong. Maybe the common strategy around here is just completely different than what I'm used to. I don't see how someone claiming would keep them from getting lynched. I said before I work on the premise that all players claim vanilla town by default and we all know some of us are lying. I thought this was common. So saying out loud (or in print as it were), "I'm vanilla town" wouldn't make any difference whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. You could just as easily be lying either way. Hopefully, that explains my suspicions.
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God, I think I'm going to switch ISPs. These connection issues I'm having are just unacceptable.
I never felt that Library was especially scummy. I didn't really care of the stuff he was pushing against me, but forum mafia is different--and this is his first game for online mafia. He pretty much gets a pass from me. Seprix on the other hand, is just opportunistic scum who plays this "woe is me, no one ever listens to me, so I'm just going to sheep other people and never come up with anything on my own" bullshit. And then in addition acts purposefully obtuse for whatever inane reason.
It's making me feel like I'm going insane. I have explained myself though.
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No comment.
I've taken a look at SS and Faust, and they seem solid right now.
I'm honestly in a dead end here mentally. I feel like there's a lead somewhere I should be seeing. I'll have to do some reading.
I also need to stop pushing lynches so hard. i don't think I've ever led a single correct lynch.
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Look dude, I probably came off harsher than I meant to. I'm sorry.
There's a happy medium. Not everyone person you vote has to be the greatest case ever or everyone's favorite lynch. If you're town, your intuition is worth something.
This game is going a bit...odd. There's actually a lot of people lurking, which doesn't help us.
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Look dude, I probably came off harsher than I meant to. I'm sorry.
There's a happy medium. Not everyone person you vote has to be the greatest case ever or everyone's favorite lynch. If you're town, your intuition is worth something.
This game is going a bit...odd. There's actually a lot of people lurking, which doesn't help us.
Thank you. I'm not really playing all that seriously at the moment.
And the lurking is very unsettling.
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I apologize! I'll keep trying to post more.
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btw I'm still liking Seprix/Library after all this.
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btw I'm still liking Seprix/Library after all this.
like = like for a lynch?
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btw I'm still liking Seprix/Library after all this.
like = like for a lynch?
Yes sorry. I guess I didn't make that very clear.
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So, right now (besides faust), I'm looking at Seprix, LA, or maybe Grey for our lynch. Grey has not posted in 5 days. are you there?
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So having a "want to lynch" list of town!Awaclus, verytownie!Seprix and town!me is good, but my reads list is bad because it's "too easy"? Sorry, but I don't get this at all.
That's pretty clear though. Pit and IG are easily framable for lynches, but they aren't actually scummy. Awaclus, Seprix, and you are all harder to get lynched, but scummier this game. I'm totally behind what I said there.
Phew. I don't agree here, why are Awaclus and Seprix harder to get lynched? I mean, D1 seems to suggest otherwise. There's not a big difference between pit, IG on one end and Awaclus, Seprix on the other.
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I don't think Seprix or Awaclus are hard to get lynched.
maybe not hard in a vacuum. For faust, however, pit and IG are pretty clearly the two easiest targets to tunnel. Don't you think that's true?
Eh.. Faust is a tunneling kind of guy.. I'm not sure what you mean by easy, exactly. Easy because he has a history of tunneling them? A scum!Faust might be conscious of this and want to change things to make it appear like he's really doing work to figure out who's scum.
pit is semi lurking and IG has the whole meta thing and a rivalry with faust. They take the least effort to believably tunnel as scum.
And Awaclus was lurking and Seprix always gets suspicion especially after that one game where he didn't and ended up being scum. I don't see how they're different.
Plus, I don't usually take the way of least resistance as scum.
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Buddying me has proven to be a more effective strategy for scum I think, but faust would know that I would be very wary of anything like that from him. It's easier and attracts less attention to just take the same tack he always does in regard to me.
I know that you feel like I always behave the way towards you, but it's simply not true.
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Trying some PoE: I don't want to lynch silver and Seprix today, and possibly not Grey, even though he should post more. So that leaves pit, Ichi, LA, WW, Hydrad.
pit - there's so little to read. His position on the Awaclus wagon is not the scummiest, but he was there.
Ichi - recent posts feel a bit more like coming from town!Ichi. Not a preferred lynch.
LA - I don't get the fuss about him. His explanation for pushing Ichi makes sense, it's just coming from a different perspective. I have an IRL group where VT claims are standard practice for PRs. I even know a guy who would always claim Cop. We treat things differently here, but from his point of view that makes sense.
WW - I'm bad at reading him. I don't have much of a feeling either way.
Hydrad - also very quiet. He's not on the Awaclus wagon, but I don't think all the scum was there, so that's not much of a giveaway.
So yeah. I'd prefer a lynch out of Hydrad/pit right now.
Vote: pit
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Vote Count 2.2
Faust: Silverspawn
Seprix: Ichimaru Gin
Pit: Faust
Ichimaru Gin: LibraryAdventurer, Seprix
Hydrad: GreyICE
LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad, witherweaver
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Trying some PoE: I don't want to lynch silver and Seprix today, and possibly not Grey, even though he should post more. So that leaves pit, Ichi, LA, WW, Hydrad.
pit - there's so little to read. His position on the Awaclus wagon is not the scummiest, but he was there.
Ichi - recent posts feel a bit more like coming from town!Ichi. Not a preferred lynch.
LA - I don't get the fuss about him. His explanation for pushing Ichi makes sense, it's just coming from a different perspective. I have an IRL group where VT claims are standard practice for PRs. I even know a guy who would always claim Cop. We treat things differently here, but from his point of view that makes sense.
WW - I'm bad at reading him. I don't have much of a feeling either way.
Hydrad - also very quiet. He's not on the Awaclus wagon, but I don't think all the scum was there, so that's not much of a giveaway.
So yeah. I'd prefer a lynch out of Hydrad/pit right now.
Vote: pit
My biggest issue with Library is contribution. Day 1 content was mostly about Mafia rather than about the players in this game, and his first real contribution is his case on Ichi, which came off to me as a little opportunistic. The only (as I see) good point against Ichi is that his play around claiming wasn't indicative of being a VT, but Seprix was actually the one that made this, and even that was after Awaclus brought it up. He was on the Awaclus wagon as well.
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You know what? I take back my vote. I've done some thinking, and while it is shady what IG has been saying, I'm not so sure anymore about my thinking here. If I take away that claiming thing, he holds up on his own. Not saying he's not suspicious, but I think I won't vote him today.
unvote
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And moreover, most of the thing between Library and Ichi is about meta Mafia in regards to claiming, etc., and not really about Ichi doing things that are actually indicative of scum.
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Hi, I'm still in the game. I apologize for having low posting velocity, I've been doing things all weekend. I still don't understand why Hydrad has so few votes. I need to go back and look, but I'm sure there were people voting for him day 1, and today was especially not townie. So far he's done the following:
1) Tried to establish if everyone thought a particular player was confirmed town (aka a good night kill)
2) Clapped his hands about how clever the NK was.
The combo is really ugly, and I don't see anyone else shooting Jim here.
WW is town, Faust is town, Library is still town, IG is feeling better, Silver prefacing his point system with "this isn't super serious" makes zero sense. Why go through all that effort if it's not worth anything? PbPA is not a town tell, and it's a good way to spin wheels while not doing much. Seprix, dunno. I keep going back and forth, and it's giving me whiplash.
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GreICE's point against Hydrad is a good one, as when I'm scum, the greatest factor of my nightkill decision is how big of a townread the targets are. I didn't think Hydrad was scummy Day 1, though.
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Yay greyICE is back! and he thinks i'm scum...
overall though I think grey is doing a really good job this game. Either hes good town or good scum but I'm leaning town. Most of his points are pretty good points.
And will that cases facts might be right its coming to the wrong conclusion!
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As much as I love gold stars, I'd rather have good posting.
I have grown tired of this discussion. Our ability went to scum, because it hasn't been used yet. It was the ability to have a double day if we post the word "Call" in bold. I am 100% under the feeling that we should use it today with the page out, and I can force your hand.
Whoever doesn't post Call in bold on its own line in their next post is scum.
Call
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As much as I love gold stars, I'd rather have good posting.
I have grown tired of this discussion. Our ability went to scum, because it hasn't been used yet. It was the ability to have a double day if we post the word "Call" in bold. I am 100% under the feeling that we should use it today with the page out, and I can force your hand.
Whoever doesn't post Call in bold on its own line in their next post is scum.
Call
What? No, no one do that.
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>:(
How is today a terrible time to have the double day? This is a great time! We get 2 lynches and then a vig shot, which puts us in evens, and there's absolutely no way that Coin of the Realm can die tonight, unused.
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*puts us out of evens.
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Like I'm going to need some serious logic on that one, because when I saw it last night I was like "Sweet, the antidote to the Page Vig shot has arrived!"
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Because, for one, we may not be able to tell who actually used it. For two, wouldn't a double day be more useful later on?
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I don't follow the Page thing; what do you mean?
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I mean we could have each player do it one at a time, and wait for the mod to see if it goes off. That's tedious as heck, but hey, if everyone is game, then we can.
As for there being an advantage for there doing it later, NO. There is no guarantee that there will be a day 3.
At the moment the ratio is 6:3. Mislynch today, and it is 5:3, page vig misses and scum kill, then it's 3:3. That's game, friends.
WE NEED THAT DOUBLE DAY
Really can't make that clearer. Frankly I'm fairly close to doing a vengeful type of thing, where the lynched player names who is lynched on day 2.5, because if they're town then we're really going to have trouble lynching scum (if scum don't bus then we'd need 5 townies to all agree to vote scum, and frankly experience says that's nearly impossible). Only the fact that the alignment is unknown is stopping me.
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Silver prefacing his point system with "this isn't super serious" makes zero sense. Why go through all that effort if it's not worth anything?
I didn't say "my reread has no credibility", I said "don't take the point system too seriously" as in if I have 10:8 or whatever it doesn't mean that Ichi is town. It's not an accurate or tested metric, it's just a little thing which I felt like doing to make the reread more fun. I could have done the reread without the point system and reached the same conclusion. I also didn't know that it'd be such a clear cut.
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well this iss interesting. Would we even know if the double day happens until this one ends?
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Unclear (based on my reading) and possibly irrelevant. If everyone posts Call then it's guaranteed to happen.
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Fine, I was deemed guardian of the Coin of the Realm last night.
Call
For those in the other QT, this allows us to get a second lynch today, in the sense that we skip today's Night phase, but our day's lynch is not flipped until the end of tomorrow.
I originally wanted to wait at least a day because I figured it would be more powerful with the more information that we have; i.e., after another flip. But the result of this conversation will probably indicate to scum who has the Coin.
So, we can lynch two people. Hoorah.
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Hoorah!
That makes me extremely happy~
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And ftr I'd agree it's more powerful later, and would not want it if there was a scum lynch day 1, but I feel like the extra opportunity to not lose here is worth the information later.
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well that drama ended fast.
Oh thats interesting though. We don't see what they flipped? that makes me like it a bit less as we don't even know if when we lynch someone if we can trust their reads. Well whats done is done I guess.
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Hydrad, you didn't call.
call
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Hydrad, you didn't call.
call
I thought we didn't need to since WW claimed it.
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It's also, you know, a little unlikely that you'd have the coin without being in the Player 1 QT.
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Woah, woah, woah.
If we are skipping Tonight (Night 2) because of Coin of the Realm, does that mean that Page does not get to use his Night 2 ability?
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Or is the night following the next "day" Night 2?
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interesting I was assuming it would skip Night 2 here as thats what I thought greyICE meant with this
Like I'm going to need some serious logic on that one, because when I saw it last night I was like "Sweet, the antidote to the Page Vig shot has arrived!"
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Nah, I meant even numbers of players blow, and a vig shot gives us even numbers (with the possibility of it being scum controlled). A double lynch is back to odd, in the most town controlled way possible.
Without the double lynch, it is possible scum-vig+nightkill ends game after today's lynch, 1 shot to hit scum.
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I mean it'd really bite if RNG gave scum Page, but we have to account for it.
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Hmm. This is an interesting development. GreyICE kind of forced the Coin to claim--somewhat against WW's wishes it seems. I'm not the biggest fan of the vig role though, so if we lose it, I don't think it's a huge deal. All the better if scum ended up getting the role. Though wasn't the plan to use it like an extra lynch?
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Hmm. This is an interesting development. GreyICE kind of forced the Coin to claim--somewhat against WW's wishes it seems. I'm not the biggest fan of the vig role though, so if we lose it, I don't think it's a huge deal. All the better if scum ended up getting the role. Though wasn't the plan to use it like an extra lynch?
well we could try to use it as a extra lynch. then scum may have used it for a double night kill to end the game if they had the chance.
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Hmm. This is an interesting development. GreyICE kind of forced the Coin to claim--somewhat against WW's wishes it seems. I'm not the biggest fan of the vig role though, so if we lose it, I don't think it's a huge deal. All the better if scum ended up getting the role. Though wasn't the plan to use it like an extra lynch?
I... why would the scum getting a bonus NK be good?
I mean the extra lynch idea is really contingent on the player doing what they said they will, and scum have no reason to do that.
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Oh. I meant that statement under the assumption that page's N2 vig action is lost because of activating the Coin or whatever. So if whoever got page is scum, it's better that they lose their vig action.
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Oh, yeah, that'd be awesome.
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Ohhigray.
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This is bad. Vote: GreyICE I'm certain there is scum amongst Grey/WW, from the way this went down. Noone even bothered to ask about how the other power interacts with this. You know why? Because they already knew.
So time for full disclosure: Our QT chose Swamp Hag today. The power is, if this is used at night and scum kills, one random scum player will be premanently hated. This would allow us to catch scum by bringing everyone to L-1, or force scum to no kill.
Now it seems that scum is trying to seal the game without Swamp Hag's ability coming in their way. Even worse, missing a night not only means the delay of Swamp Hag, but also prevents us from gaining additional powers. And from additional information. Having to make two lynches only with the information we have now is ugh. No lynching now would have been a much better way to solve the issue.
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Even worse if this stops our vig shot. Then this has just completely screwed our chances.
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Oh my god. That's the last time I don't check the QT and assume people know what they're doing.
vote: GrayIce
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Mhf. I think WW is more to blame than Grey here though.
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Mhf. I think WW is more to blame than Grey here though.
Yeah... I'm not sure who's scummier. Grey tried hard to push this without discussion. I'm kinda used to carefree PR use from town!WW.
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I don't know a lot about how WW handles PR's. In a normal Usually, I would trust your judgement, but since I think you're scum this game, I don't really want to do that.
Any other opinions on this?
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look how good i can do grammar
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Hmm while I see where your coming from faust I don't fully blame them. I had knowledge of swamphag and didn't fully realize the consequences until you mentioned it. From their view it seemed like a good choice.
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so I guess what I mean in that post is I probably would have called if I had gotten the coin also. Plus swamphag can still work I think. After these nights they still have to make the decision of night killing or not.
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I tired to argue against calling, and then I realized that at the end, it would simply be clear by PoE that I had the Coin and would be night killed. GreICE's post made it so Coin had to be called today.
We can still use Swamp Hag after the double day.
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so I guess what I mean in that post is I probably would have called if I had gotten the coin also. Plus swamphag can still work I think. After these nights they still have to make the decision of night killing or not.
But if things go wrong, night killing might win them the game. And the Swamp Hag could be lynched. And we still don't get powers. It's awful.
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I tired to argue against calling, and then I realized that at the end, it would simply be clear by PoE that I had the Coin and would be night killed. GreICE's post made it so Coin had to be called today.
We can still use Swamp Hag after the double day.
You are responsible. If you feared getting PoE'd, well why not wait with the calling until this actually happened?
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I tired to argue against calling, and then I realized that at the end, it would simply be clear by PoE that I had the Coin and would be night killed. GreICE's post made it so Coin had to be called today.
We can still use Swamp Hag after the double day.
You are responsible. If you feared getting PoE'd, well why not wait with the calling until this actually happened?
You mean until everyone else called? I didn't really see the point of that.
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Man, Duplicate would have been cool.
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I tired to argue against calling, and then I realized that at the end, it would simply be clear by PoE that I had the Coin and would be night killed. GreICE's post made it so Coin had to be called today.
We can still use Swamp Hag after the double day.
You are responsible. If you feared getting PoE'd, well why not wait with the calling until this actually happened?
You mean until everyone else called? I didn't really see the point of that.
Well, maybe that other people would see the insanity of Grey's suggestion and not call?
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Maybe. But there was five in the QT, and GreyICE obviously didn't get it, so it's already 25%. Any of {Silver, Library, Pitt} being scum makes it much more likely, if not certain. I also thought scum might be able to guess I had it based on how I was responding to Grey. I thought about trying to construct a "I don't have the coin" slip, but I didn't really see that paying off. And I'm already a bit of a consensus town read.
Anyway, oh well, we live with it now.
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Oh come off it faust. What happens if we no lynch? If it's a scum-vig, or hell, if the town-vig misses (because that never happens) we're in 4:3 tomorrow. Okay, yadda yadda Swamp Hag, it's actually a 3:2 - assuming scum don't coordinate a quickhammer on a townie as we're setting up to test the hated which is a huge issue in a 4:3. It's a crap plan, and more to the point, you had like 10 real-life days to air it.
Now, want to see a good plan? Lets wander back in time.
His scum posts feel very forced and usually don't have much content. Here he seems like he actually doesn't know alignments. He's hedgey, but the kind of hedgey that comes with not knowing things. I.e., town
this feels very sincere, and I'll trust your judgement for now, so unvote
Although my lynchpool is really running low now
Hydrad - ^
Faust - I really don't want to lynch faust day1
silverspawn - town
GreyICE - isn't here
xpittip - no
Seprix
Jimmmm
witherweaver ^
LibraryAdventurer first game
Awalcus
Ichimaru Gin
that leaves Seprix, Jimmmm, Awaclus, IG.
how about jimmm? vote: Jimmmmm
You don't think Jimmm's slip was real?
You don't think Jimmm's slip was real?
gahh, I forgot. I do think it was real.
vote: IG then
Day 2 Start!
Somehow in the lag between another preview being posted, someone hacked into theory's account, and permanently banned Jimmmmm. He was a vanilla townie.
Silver, Sephrix, Pit, Hydrad. Pick 3, and send the vig after the towniest of them (since it might not go there anyway).
Ooh, or suggest names yourself. That'd be productive.
Then guess what happens? Tomorrow is a 3:2 at worst (still a bitch to coordinate a hated test, but slightly easier if two players are online at the same time), or maybe it's a 4:1 and we just autowin.
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It's Seprix. And yeah, don't kill me. I'm town. So either those other three guys are all scum (unlikely), or we have one really solid player as scum in the establishment.
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I can see Pit as scum. I can see SS as scum. I think Hydrad is town. IG is suspect. Ice is suspect. WW is suspect.
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Yeah. I'm going to have to think about this more, but I don't like the idea of killing off a ton of people without getting flips inbetween.
PPE: What about Library?
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Yeah. I'm going to have to think about this more, but I don't like the idea of killing off a ton of people without getting flips inbetween.
PPE: What about Library?
Meh, I put pressure on Library early for that "no information on day 1" stuff, and he didn't at all crack or backpeddle, and he has no mafia experience. Either he handles shit under fire like a boss, or he was saying exactly what he was thinking.
As for lots of dead people, that's the entire goal of mafia. Preserving townies is an illusionary goal, because townies are going to die in any case. The only win condition is to murder the right people before the scum kill the right people, and a higher velocity of murder on our side only helps that (they're certainly not going to shoot scum for us).
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I'm fine with people dying. However, the point of people dying is to give information. At worst, that's just making the lynch pool smaller for POE. It's much better if additional information can be gained though. Lynching is technically more of a town controlled kill I guess, since town makes up the majority of players, but that doesn't automatically make it more likely to hit scum than town--actually the opposite if people are lynched randomly.
I don't think speeding the game up by killing a bunch of people in this fashion is necessarily a good idea. Yeah, people are going to die either way, but I think its better to take things more slowly.
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Yeah. I'm going to have to think about this more, but I don't like the idea of killing off a ton of people without getting flips inbetween.
PPE: What about Library?
Meh, I put pressure on Library early for that "no information on day 1" stuff, and he didn't at all crack or backpeddle, and he has no mafia experience. Either he handles shit under fire like a boss, or he was saying exactly what he was thinking.
As for lots of dead people, that's the entire goal of mafia. Preserving townies is an illusionary goal, because townies are going to die in any case. The only win condition is to murder the right people before the scum kill the right people, and a higher velocity of murder on our side only helps that (they're certainly not going to shoot scum for us).
I mean, not exactly, as killing 8 players Day 1 isn't a super good strategy. You need some information for the velocity thing to work.
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We have a ton of information. Scum shot Jim. That means that we were probably on the wrong track, since a Jim shot didn't effect any town leaders. That means the IG wagon is definitely not a high priority today.
Seriously, yesterday was so disorganized scum shot a universal town read who contributed almost nothing over a strong town player. What does that say to you?
We're organizing, and getting our lynches.
Oh and if I was scum I'd just push no-lynch today then hope page hits town (or know it will) then setup a quickhammer during derp-LyLo hated testing.
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We have a ton of information. Scum shot Jim. That means that we were probably on the wrong track, since a Jim shot didn't effect any town leaders. That means the IG wagon is definitely not a high priority today.
Seriously, yesterday was so disorganized scum shot a universal town read who contributed almost nothing over a strong town player. What does that say to you?
We're organizing, and getting our lynches.
Oh and if I was scum I'd just push no-lynch today then hope page hits town (or know it will) then setup a quickhammer during derp-LyLo hated testing.
Oh, well good thing you pushed for the double-lynch, which is very distanced from a no-lynch, which you would have done as scum. So you must be, like, ubertown now.
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This is bad. Vote: GreyICE I'm certain there is scum amongst Grey/WW, from the way this went down. Noone even bothered to ask about how the other power interacts with this. You know why? Because they already knew.
If they knew about Sea Hag, I'm guessing Grey and WW weren't thinking about not being able to use it for longer after the double day phase. They come across as genuine to me. And Grey had a point about the possible mafia win after one more night.
So time for full disclosure: Our QT chose Swamp Hag today. The power is, if this is used at night and scum kills, one random scum player will be premanently hated. This would allow us to catch scum by bringing everyone to L-1, or force scum to no kill.
That seems a confusing way to say it. Since I was in that QT, I'll try to say it clearer, a lynch on a hated scum needs one less vote to kill.
Now it seems that scum is trying to seal the game without Swamp Hag's ability coming in their way. Even worse, missing a night not only means the delay of Swamp Hag, but also prevents us from gaining additional powers. And from additional information. Having to make two lynches only with the information we have now is ugh. No lynching now would have been a much better way to solve the issue.
How do you know they'll be more powers each day? It would make sense to give out powers the first two days and then stop, since any powers given out after that will very likely never have a chance to be used anyway. It would also make it even more confusing to keep track of so many PRs.
Will XP tell us if there will be more powers on each day as long as the game lasts?
I don't think no lynching is ever a good thing. When mafia kill, they always kill the good guys. When town has a lynch is when we have a chance of killing bad guys. Seems like it would put us at a disadvantage if we don't lynch.
Oh my god. That's the last time I don't check the QT and assume people know what they're doing.
vote: GrayIce
BTW, this seems like a easy and suspicious kind of vote.
Now, I have a question:
I checked the Mafia lingo dictionary (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0), and it didn't help. So what does PoE mean?
Also, did WW activate his power or not? (Asking because he seemed to take back the 'call' here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg486994#msg486994) Not sure if XP would allow taking it back, but it seems good to ask.)
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Oh and if I was scum I'd just push no-lynch today then hope page hits town (or know it will) then setup a quickhammer during derp-LyLo hated testing.
This is definitely a disadvantage to consider before testing the 'hated' thing by getting everyone to L-1. I hadn't thought of that.
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POE stands for Process of Elimination. Basically, it's kind of like scumhunting by the negative--eliminating people you don't want to lynch and then working from there.
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PoE = process of elimination.
So basically if theres 3 people left and you think A and B are town. that means C is scum. that kinda idea.
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dang I got ninjad
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Ha ha. I should have made it a lower case 'o' though
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Also I have a feeling that WW is town here.
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WW is town.
Oh, well good thing you pushed for the double-lynch, which is very distanced from a no-lynch, which you would have done as scum. So you must be, like, ubertown now.
Exactly as town as I was at the start of the game, which is to say town as fuck, says so in my role PM.
Vote: Seprix
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You generally can't take back an action; it was my fault for not getting clarity or thinking through the consequences earlier.
I'd still like to get clarity on how the things work together; from the wording of things in the QT, it seems ambiguous.
XP, can you answer the previous questions?
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WW is town.Oh, well good thing you pushed for the double-lynch, which is very distanced from a no-lynch, which you would have done as scum. So you must be, like, ubertown now.
Exactly as town as I was at the start of the game, which is to say town as fuck, says so in my role PM.
Vote: Seprix
The point was the "if I were scum" thing is often something that scum says, a bit magnified here because you specifically did something exactly opposite to your self-proclaimed "if I were scum" action early.
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The point was the "if I were scum" thing is often something that scum says, a bit magnified here because you specifically did something exactly opposite to your self-proclaimed "if I were scum" action early.
I was more debunking the idea that no-lynching or single lynching today was a positive step forward. I am 100% sure it is not, I am 100% sure that our chances to win are dramatically magnified if we get a double lynch day. Doing otherwise is literally gambling everything on the Page having gone to town and the page shot being good. Now if the page works out, we basically win, but if we lynch one scum, we're still in things no matter what.
Seprix and Pit! Pit and Silver! Think of all the juicy combos we've got here. Lets fucking get some consensus, because it's 5 town votes to lynch if the scum don't bus, and I don't feel like spending the rest of two days wringing our hands about losing the opportunity to have some awful "leave it up to the gods" no-lynch plan.
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I'm pretty good with Pit being one of the lynches. Seprix I could maybe go for, but some things have seemed townie.. Silver has seemed somewhat townie to me. (Also, what scum forgets that there is a psuedo IC? They're going to be actively looking for mislynch targets and think through the consequences of starting a wagon on someone.)
I still like LA as the other one... Hydrad maybe.. Ichi maybe.. Faust nah, you maybe to nah.
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No taking back. There will be cards available to buy each night.
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XP specified that calling the coin results in a bonus day. So, after two lynches, we will go into Night 2 for purposes of Page's ability.
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Faust
I'm pretty good with Pit being one of the lynches. Seprix I could maybe go for, but some things have seemed townie.. Silver has seemed somewhat townie to me. (Also, what scum forgets that there is a psuedo IC? They're going to be actively looking for mislynch targets and think through the consequences of starting a wagon on someone.)
I still like LA as the other one... Hydrad maybe.. Ichi maybe.. Faust nah, you maybe to nah.
Faust is totes town forever.
Why LA?
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Ask me anything, explain why I am scum, whatever it takes. I'll answer truthfully and maybe we can get closer to the truth.
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XP specified that calling the coin results in a bonus day. So, after two lynches, we will go into Night 2 for purposes of Page's ability.
So that means the supposed scum!page gets their vig kill huh? I don't like it. I've said before I'm not a big fan of the vig power in general, but 2 lynches with no information until the end + 2 scum nightkills sounds terrible to me.
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XP specified that calling the coin results in a bonus day. So, after two lynches, we will go into Night 2 for purposes of Page's ability.
So that means the supposed scum!page gets their vig kill huh? I don't like it. I've said before I'm not a big fan of the vig power in general, but 2 lynches with no information until the end + 2 scum nightkills sounds terrible to me.
All we have to do is find scum for both lynches. then its easy!
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XP specified that calling the coin results in a bonus day. So, after two lynches, we will go into Night 2 for purposes of Page's ability.
So that means the supposed scum!page gets their vig kill huh? I don't like it. I've said before I'm not a big fan of the vig power in general, but 2 lynches with no information until the end + 2 scum nightkills sounds terrible to me.
All we have to do is find scum for both lynches. then its easy!
One quite suffices.
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Oh come off it faust. What happens if we no lynch? If it's a scum-vig, or hell, if the town-vig misses (because that never happens) we're in 4:3 tomorrow. Okay, yadda yadda Swamp Hag, it's actually a 3:2 - assuming scum don't coordinate a quickhammer on a townie as we're setting up to test the hated which is a huge issue in a 4:3. It's a crap plan, and more to the point, you had like 10 real-life days to air it.
Well, that analysis is correct. We're not in a very good situation. Lynching two townies can easily be an intant loss though, so I don't see how your plan is any better if I paint the worst-case scenario. And I didn't have time to air the plan, because there was no need for a plan until I heard of CotR.
Silver, Sephrix, Pit, Hydrad. Pick 3, and send the vig after the towniest of them (since it might not go there anyway).
Ooh, or suggest names yourself. That'd be productive.
I don't know about that list. silver and Seprix seem townie to me. You want to see a good list? Grey, WW, pit, Hydrad.
Then guess what happens? Tomorrow is a 3:2 at worst (still a bitch to coordinate a hated test, but slightly easier if two players are online at the same time), or maybe it's a 4:1 and we just autowin.
At WORST we've lost tomorrow. We might get the Swamp Hag lynched. You're painting this far easier than it actually is. And what prevents scum from no killing? This is specifically why I thought a single lynch would be good - it's an incentive for scum to kill, because if they don't, we get an extra lynch.
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Good thing is, this can still be remedied. We just skip one of those days. Which really is a shame, cause it might have been helpful later on.
Vote: No lynch
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The point was the "if I were scum" thing is often something that scum says, a bit magnified here because you specifically did something exactly opposite to your self-proclaimed "if I were scum" action early.
I was more debunking the idea that no-lynching or single lynching today was a positive step forward. I am 100% sure it is not, I am 100% sure that our chances to win are dramatically magnified if we get a double lynch day. Doing otherwise is literally gambling everything on the Page having gone to town and the page shot being good. Now if the page works out, we basically win, but if we lynch one scum, we're still in things no matter what.
Seprix and Pit! Pit and Silver! Think of all the juicy combos we've got here. Lets fucking get some consensus, because it's 5 town votes to lynch if the scum don't bus, and I don't feel like spending the rest of two days wringing our hands about losing the opportunity to have some awful "leave it up to the gods" no-lynch plan.
Have I told you how much I hate people being "100% sure"?
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vote: faust
well I was wrong.
Lynching once is the same as lynching twice, but with half the odds of a scum lynch. You're salty because you thought this would be an easy win. So your team got page?
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So what's the inside scoop? we have to be on to one buddy or you'd never have proposed the uni-lynch. Is it pit? Seprix? Did WWE push on LA scare you?
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I'm going to get blasted by Ice for this, but I actually kind of agree with Faust.
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Let's see.. If Faust really is scum, he is defending me as town along with IG. If IG is scum, Faust looks kind of bad. If not, it's safe to say Faust is town.
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Then expound as to how lynching once is better than lynching twicE. We have a ton of reads, and can assuredly hit scum in the two lynches. What does 1 do?
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What do we stand to gain by giving up a lynch?
Well, what does Swamp Hag do? What does Page do?
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I don't think Faust is scum. This sounds quite a bit like town Faust.
I don't want to no lynch, though. I mean, really I don't care, arguing over use of abilities and everything bores me. But, hey, we can do something, so we might as well do it.
Vote: Pit
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Giving up a lynch... Loses us a lynch. With no benefit.
vote: pit
I trust you.
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vote count?
Three people are now voting for Pit.
Better make that four.
vote: Pit
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so thats L-1?
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
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err actually we are at 8 people right? so if we double lynch thats 6 then night kill is 5. But does page still get a vig kill? Because then we go to 4...
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
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We can theoretically end this game and win it in one night. Make some smart moves. What do we know? What is the best lynch to get the most information?
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
For whys?
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
For whys?
LA has felt pretty scummy to me since day 1 but I gave him a bye since hes new. Seprix Just feels like he switches votes whenever a wagon hes on starts stalling and moves to the next likely target. It feels like hes just looking for a lynch and doesn't care who it is.
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That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
For whys?
LA has felt pretty scummy to me since day 1 but I gave him a bye since hes new. Seprix Just feels like he switches votes whenever a wagon hes on starts stalling and moves to the next likely target. It feels like hes just looking for a lynch and doesn't care who it is.
Hydrad is right. I have like no confidence in my reads. Something I need to work on.
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vote: faust
well I was wrong.
Lynching once is the same as lynching twice, but with half the odds of a scum lynch. You're salty because you thought this would be an easy win. So your team got page?
You don't even bother to read what I say, do you?
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Then expound as to how lynching once is better than lynching twicE. We have a ton of reads, and can assuredly hit scum in the two lynches. What does 1 do?
I have already explained that. Some more detail.
If we lynch twice...
we go into night with 7 players alive. Page shoots, taking it down to 6. Now mafia can just choose to no kill because Swamp Hag is scary, and we're at 6 alive which is no better than 5 alive.
If we lynch once...
we go into night with 8 players alive. Page shoots, we're 7. Mafia has to shoot (in which case we catch scum) or they'll be giving us a free lynch, which we instead would have had today, only by then we'll have way more information.
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Why would scum choose to no kill? Double if killing wins them, yknow, the game?
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I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
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I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
Well, I intend to lynch scum today.
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We can theoretically end this game and win it in one night. Make some smart moves. What do we know? What is the best lynch to get the most information?
Today, no lynch gives any information, at least for a while.
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And I have no bloody idea why Grey acts as though we're certain to lynch scum if we lynch twice.
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Completely forgot about this game, sorry. I agree with faust, a single lynch actualy seems better than the double lynch.
I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
Why not? Even if it takes 24h per player, that's still enough time. + We can surely find a time where 4 (or more) of us have 15 minutes time to coordinate 7 votes each...
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I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
Well, I intend to lynch scum today.
And I have no bloody idea why Grey acts as though we're certain to lynch scum if we lynch twice.
;)
Come vote scum with us. I'll offer a hint, he's suggesting we try and get a 3 vote wagon on each player in LyLo without any concern about a possible quickhammer...
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I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
Well, I intend to lynch scum today.
And I have no bloody idea why Grey acts as though we're certain to lynch scum if we lynch twice.
;)
Come vote scum with us. I'll offer a hint, he's suggesting we try and get a 3 vote wagon on each player in LyLo without any concern about a possible quickhammer...
I'm bad with hints.
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So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
That's funny because Seprix is the person I find most suspicious right now.
vote: Seprix (for now)
For the same reason Hydrad said:
LA has felt pretty scummy to me since day 1 but I gave him a bye since hes new. Seprix Just feels like he switches votes whenever a wagon hes on starts stalling and moves to the next likely target. It feels like hes just looking for a lynch and doesn't care who it is.
People are saying I seem scummy, but I don't remember anyone presenting a case or reason for it. Is it because, like Seprix, I don't have much go on against anyone?
Now I kinda feel hypocritical for voting Seprix. I'm about to hammer Pit, but I think I want another day to consider options.
Faust seemed towny most of the game until he started pushing no lynch. I don't think Swamp Hag would keep mafia from killing, and agree with Grey that it's really unlikely that we wouldn't hit mafia with at least one of those lynches. Town kills are always better than mafia kills. Let's use our town kills.
Giving up a lynch... Loses us a lynch. With no benefit.
hmmm, I didn't think pit seemed particularly suspicious until this post:
Completely forgot about this game, sorry. I agree with faust, a single lynch actualy seems better than the double lynch.
I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3
Why not? Even if it takes 24h per player, that's still enough time. + We can surely find a time where 4 (or more) of us have 15 minutes time to coordinate 7 votes each...
Besides my obvious dislike for pushing no-lynch, I really don't like the idea of trying to get each person to L-1 to kill the hated scum when it would be so easy for scum to hammer whoever. Then again... if scum hammers a townsperson, then we'll know he's scum. Is that such a bad thing?
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Why not? Even if it takes 24h per player, that's still enough time. + We can surely find a time where 4 (or more) of us have 15 minutes time to coordinate 7 votes each...
Besides my obvious dislike for pushing no-lynch, I really don't like the idea of trying to get each person to L-1 to kill the hated scum when it would be so easy for scum to hammer whoever. Then again... if scum hammers a townsperson, then we'll know he's scum. Is that such a bad thing?
Hmmm, I just got what 4:3 means. So yes, if scum hammers a townie at 4:3 that would be bad.
(giving in to the usage of the word 'scum' to mean mafia. It's not my preference, but it makes for an easy adjective. It wouldn't really work to say mafia-ee.)
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...okay I'm convinced
vote: pit
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I like the term Maffish, myself.
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Maffiish. Okay I'm totally going to start using that.
(Yay, I don't have to use the term 'scum'. Scum is too broad a term. Cutpurses, thieves, and swindlers are all scum, but not mafia.)
Seems like most people have gone to bed by the time I get to a conversation. So... how's it going Seprix?
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Lol, I just made that up. I might use it sometimes though, I like the sound of it.
I'm fine. I'm still not sold on what to do.
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Also in my neck of the woods, we use the word villager instead of townie. And someone's really acting maffish if they cut off the neck of the woods.
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K. It's super late here. I'll be back tomorrow. I'm of course ok with a Seprix lynch, but I'm wary of GreyICE. It's difficult to discern which of his/faust's plans seem better right now--that could just be because I'm tired though.
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...did LA just hammer pit? Someone said something about him being at L-1 before.
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Vote Count 2.faust
Faust (1): Silverspawn
Seprix (1): Ichimaru Gin
LibraryAdventurer (1): Hydrad
xxpittip (4): Witherweaver, GreyICE, Seprix, LibraryAdventurer (L-1)
No Lynch (1): faust
Not Voting (1): xxpittip
No, everything's good. Still, man, check these vote counts. Noone should die without being able to claim, or we might lynch Page/Swamp Hag.
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yeah this is also not a good wagon, especially now with Seprix and LA on it. I'd much rather lynch Seprix today.
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yeah this is also not a good wagon, especially now with Seprix and LA on it. I'd much rather lynch Seprix today.
Why is Seprix scummy?
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I'm flattered you think I'm town Faust, but why? Everyone else thinks I'm scum.
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I'm flattered you think I'm town Faust, but why? Everyone else thinks I'm scum.
I don't know, you seem genuinely involved and give me a town feeling? I don't know why the others think you're scum.
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I'm flattered you think I'm town Faust, but why? Everyone else thinks I'm scum.
I don't know, you seem genuinely involved and give me a town feeling? I don't know why the others think you're scum.
It's because I'm indecisive and it fits their narrative.
Well, I don't see any reason scum has to defend me, and so I think you're auto-town.
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I'm flattered you think I'm town Faust, but why? Everyone else thinks I'm scum.
I don't know, you seem genuinely involved and give me a town feeling? I don't know why the others think you're scum.
It's because I'm indecisive and it fits their narrative.
Well, I don't see any reason scum has to defend me, and so I think you're auto-town.
Well, indecisiveness is townie rather than scummy (depends on the player though).
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You can conversely claim I'm jumping on wagons.
One man's town play is another man's scum play.
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Does Pit want to claim?
Is the deadline extended with "double lynch"?
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Well, I don't see any reason scum has to defend me, and so I think you're auto-town.
That could be a good reason. faust could be white-knighting you to try and make himself look good after your flip. Or, I don't know, maybe you're partners.
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Well, I don't see any reason scum has to defend me, and so I think you're auto-town.
That could be a good reason. faust could be white-knighting you to try and make himself look good after your flip. Or, I don't know, maybe you're partners.
I know I'm not scum, so I'm figuring stuff out. Faust could be scum, but it's just easier to kill me I think.
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Well, I don't see any reason scum has to defend me, and so I think you're auto-town.
That could be a good reason. faust could be white-knighting you to try and make himself look good after your flip. Or, I don't know, maybe you're partners.
I know I'm not scum, so I'm figuring stuff out. Faust could be scum, but it's just easier to kill me I think.
While I don't fully agree with your logic its still good to hear your opinions and stuff like that.
But I still kinda have a town read on faust so our conclusions come to the same spot so I guess who am I to judge if we end up with the same outcome.
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yeah this is also not a good wagon, especially now with Seprix and LA on it. I'd much rather lynch Seprix today.
Why is Seprix scummy?
- had possibly the worst position on the Awaclus wagon
- also jumped conveniently on the pit wagon
- tunneled IG at a pretty bad time
though, I have to admit that I did find him townier lately, for his unvote on IG and a little bit of gut feeling.
I still don't like the pit lynch. Gray is hard to say because he's so new. Did someone make a case on WW?
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Does Pit want to claim?
I think i have to claim at this point: I'm a VT, but i got Swamp Hag.
If you don't believe me, you can still lynch me tomorrow, without losing much (slightly less information for the lynch today compared to the one that would happen tomorrow + me possibly being a scum PR with a night activated power), while gaining the no-kill / hated for scum.
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So found scum?
You were in Player 1 QT....
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This might be a real bonafide scumslip. Ashersky will be so happy.
Unless the cards are handed out randomly among the entire town.. but we're "Player 1" and "Player 2", so it shouldn't be that way.
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Unvote to be careful while we talk about this.
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For a second there I thought it was a huge scumslip.
But cards are just given to a random player according to the QT, it doesn't specify that it's a random player of either alignment, but it says random player period
Which makes this a really good claim, because I don't see scum!pit claiming VT.
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Does Pit want to claim?
I think i have to claim at this point: I'm a VT, but i got Swamp Hag.
If you don't believe me, you can still lynch me tomorrow, without losing much (slightly less information for the lynch today compared to the one that would happen tomorrow + me possibly being a scum PR with a night activated power), while gaining the no-kill / hated for scum.
Well, we can't exactly lynch you tomorrow, because there's no night in between.
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Which makes this a really good claim, because I don't see scum!pit claiming VT.
Why not?
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Hmmm... okay.
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Which makes this a really good claim, because I don't see scum!pit claiming VT.
Why not?
a nooby scum claiming VT? in my first scum games, I was all about making up PR's as I had to claim - and then I got lynched.
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Though, I guess his scum partners could have told him to do this, that's not too far fetched.
also, your reaction was sort of a town slip, unless it was fabricated.
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Which makes this a really good claim, because I don't see scum!pit claiming VT.
Why not?
a nooby scum claiming VT? in my first scum games, I was all about making up PR's as I had to claim - and then I got lynched.
Well, the assumption has been made that we all start out as VTs. If pit picked up on that, he might have just gone along. Also, he's not that new, is he? Has he been scum before?
Anyway we should probably not lynch him today.
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Which makes this a really good claim, because I don't see scum!pit claiming VT.
Why not?
a nooby scum claiming VT? in my first scum games, I was all about making up PR's as I had to claim - and then I got lynched.
We already established a scum-will-likely-claim VT kind of thing.
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Though, I guess his scum partners could have told him to do this, that's not too far fetched.
also, your reaction was sort of a town slip, unless it was fabricated.
Huh? How was my reaction a townslip? Or are you talking about WW?
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Anyway we should probably not lynch him today.
right... I forgot about that. yeah, if we're all VT's, his claim doesn't mean very much.
okay, so his claim is null. but he has the card for sure - you can't fakeclaim that, whoever got it would counterclaim - so we shouldn't lynch him today.
that is, unless a scum partner has the card ---- no, actually, even then it would tie them together, because XP said scum flips with the cards they have. So, if his buddy got the card, pit claims, then pit is dead once we lynch the partner. I don't think they would take that risk. So, we should assume that he does have this card.
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Though, I guess his scum partners could have told him to do this, that's not too far fetched.
also, your reaction was sort of a town slip, unless it was fabricated.
Huh? How was my reaction a townslip? Or are you talking about WW?
yeah, sorry. your posted while I was writing, I quoted it thinking it was WW's
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Though, I guess his scum partners could have told him to do this, that's not too far fetched.
also, your reaction was sort of a town slip, unless it was fabricated.
Huh? How was my reaction a townslip? Or are you talking about WW?
yeah, sorry. your posted while I was writing, I quoted it thinking it was WW's
I'm not sure it's a townslip, but I think it means that if pit is town, WW is probably town as well.
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LA's pseudo-hammer was fairly scummy I think. If I thought lynching today is good, I'd be voting him.
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okay, so it's probably worth verifying that cards are in fact randomly assigned.
XP, can you confirm that cards are given to any random player in the game?
if yes, can we lynch scum now? PoE is pretty strong, I'm starting to feel better about faust, also WW is still towny and consequently Hydrad
the only players which I'm okay with lynching right now are LA, Seprix, and Grey.
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if yes, can we lynch scum now? PoE is pretty strong, I'm starting to feel better about faust, also WW is still towny and consequently Hydrad
Huh? Did I miss something?
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Huh? Did I miss something?
well, WW said Hydrad was towny and he sounded pretty confident. I mean, it's not huge, but enough to put him out of the pool for me.
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Whoa. Ok so pit supposedly got the swamp hag card? Well, he's either telling the truth, or he's scum trying to bait out the real Swamp Hag I guess.
If he's lying, should the person who really got the card claim? I'm kind of thinking not.
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Huh? Did I miss something?
well, WW said Hydrad was towny and he sounded pretty confident. I mean, it's not huge, but enough to put him out of the pool for me.
Well, I could be wrong, and that was just from Day 1 play.
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Whoa. Ok so pit supposedly got the swamp hag card? Well, he's either telling the truth, or he's scum trying to bait out the real Swamp Hag I guess.
If he's lying, should the person who really got the card claim? I'm kind of thinking not.
Why not? It's a one-shot ability anyway. What does scum gain if the know who the Swamp Hag is?
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Huh? Did I miss something?
well, WW said Hydrad was towny and he sounded pretty confident. I mean, it's not huge, but enough to put him out of the pool for me.
Uh, that's not a good enough reason for me. Even if WW is town, my reads are still better :P
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Huh? Did I miss something?
well, WW said Hydrad was towny and he sounded pretty confident. I mean, it's not huge, but enough to put him out of the pool for me.
Uh, that's not a good enough reason for me. Even if WW is town, my reads are still better :P
You always think I'm scum when I'm town!
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About the lynch/nolynch thing (haven't really given it any thought until now):
your analysis is kind of cutting it short. I'll try to do it with more detail. "hit scum X / Y" means we hit scum with X of our Y chances to do so. In case of one lynch we have 2 (lynch, vig), in case of double lynch we have 3 (lynch, lynch, vig)
lynch once
... and hit scum 1 of 2
... ... and mafia kills
... ... ... we are at 6 with 2:4 and scum is hated*, we can catch him -> 1:4
... ... and mafia no-kills
... ... ... we are at 7 with 2:5
... and hit scum 0 of 2
... ... mafia will kill
... ... ... we are at 6 with 3:3 -> we most likely lost the game
lynch twice
... and hit scum 0 out of 3 -> we're dead
... and hit scum 1 of 3
... ... and mafia kills
... ... ... we are at 5 with 2:3 and one scum is hated**
... ... and mafia no-kills
... ... ... we are at 6 with 2:4
... and hit scum 2 of 3
... ... and mafia kills
... ... ... we are at 5 with 1:4 and one scum is hated*** -> we win
... ... and mafia no-kills
... ... ... we are at 6 with 1:5
Now, let's see if the fact that scum is hated really helps us.
* 6 alive means we need 4 to lynch. the 2 scum will quickhammer, the 4 town won't. We have to put everyone at L-2 with two guys. If one scum is among them, the other scum can't quickhammer. one player can then put him at L-1 and unvote in the same post. We can choose two players collectively to do the L-2 thing and have a pretty high chance for one scum to be among them. So, this will be complicated, but possible.
** 5 means we need 3 to lynch. L-2 is 1. As soon as someone votes, if he is not scum, scum can quickhammer. We can try to be fast, but coordinating this is crazy difficult. pretty much not possible.
*** Here we can easily do it.
So, based on this, I crossed the lines above which aren't going to happen because scum will choose differently. uh, so, is this all correct or did I miss something?
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If I didn't make any mistake, I think this means faust is right, because the most likely case (hitting one scum) is much better on top. hitting scum twice would of course be fantastic, but... that's just way less likely. The biggest argument for bot that I see is that lynching three times makes it more likely to at least hit once rather than not at all, which makes it less likely that we just straight up lose.
But I'm actually quite confident that we can hit scum with 2 tries, even if one of them is a vig who might be scum.
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Whoa. Ok so pit supposedly got the swamp hag card? Well, he's either telling the truth, or he's scum trying to bait out the real Swamp Hag I guess.
If he's lying, should the person who really got the card claim? I'm kind of thinking not.
Why not? It's a one-shot ability anyway. What does scum gain if the know who the Swamp Hag is?
...I guess they could have a Roleblocker. Well, that would be bad.
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I'll take the silence as agreement
vote: noylnch
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Whoa. Ok so pit supposedly got the swamp hag card? Well, he's either telling the truth, or he's scum trying to bait out the real Swamp Hag I guess.
If he's lying, should the person who really got the card claim? I'm kind of thinking not.
Why not? It's a one-shot ability anyway. What does scum gain if the know who the Swamp Hag is?
What happens if scum NK the swamp hag on the night they use their ability though? Does it still trigger?
...I guess they could have a Roleblocker. Well, that would be bad.
Yeah. I wasn't expressly considering that at the time, but that's one reason why they'd try and out the swamp hag.
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There is no reason it wouldn't trigger. If you take a night Action and get killed, your Action still goes through.
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I have a good case against Ice. I'll explain in less than 3 hours, when I get back from work.
I think Pit is town now based on recent info.
unvote
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okay, so it's probably worth verifying that cards are in fact randomly assigned.
XP, can you confirm that cards are given to any random player in the game?
if yes, can we lynch scum now? PoE is pretty strong, I'm starting to feel better about faust, also WW is still towny and consequently Hydrad
the only players which I'm okay with lynching right now are LA, Seprix, and Grey.
yes
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There is no reason it wouldn't trigger. If you take a night Action and get killed, your Action still goes through.
Thanks. I knew there's a resolution order, I just couldn't remember it.
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So Pit claims the magical card that everyone is looking for, the one thing that would stop us from lynching today.
And here comes Silver, the white knight, riding to the rescue -_-
Unvote
Vote: Silverspawn
The analysis remains the same.
If the Page is town and we no lynch, we need to be 50% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If the Page is scum and we lynch 1 time, we need to be 100% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If Page is town and we double lynch, we need to have 33% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If Page is scum and we double lynch, we need 50% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.
And here is pit, with the claim of Swamp Hag. Which could have gone to any of the three scum for Pit to claim it and not be counterclaimed. Any of them.
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Basically, this is the one claim in the game, the literal one claim in the game, that would have preserved Pit's life. If he'd claimed Page, we'd have lynched him immediately to avoid the scum vig.
When there is literally one claim in the game that will save a player and that player makes it at L-1? It's not town. It's not even ever town. So fine, it can be our page-town test. Pit blows up tonight, Page is town. Pit lives, page is scum.
Now, lets play with the white knight who came swooping in to save him.
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Actually, Pit using Swamp Hag and Page targeting Pit tonight (well, delayed night) is a good plan.
If Pit is not Swamp Hag, real Swamp Hag should probably use tonight no matter what.
But, I'd rather look to scum!Pit contingencies after Pit flips, not before.
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Actually, Pit using Swamp Hag and Page targeting Pit tonight (well, delayed night) is a good plan.
If Pit is not Swamp Hag, real Swamp Hag should probably use tonight no matter what.
But, I'd rather look to scum!Pit contingencies after Pit flips, not before.
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I'm here now. I worked a bit later thanI expected.
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Okay, remember D1? Jimmmmm died. Why? Why didn't Ice die D1? There are no doctors to my knowledge at the start of the game, and Ice was pretty much the towniest player D1. Then he pulled a disappearing act for a while while IG was going on, reappeared recently, attacked me, and then switched votes to SS. I just don't feel comfortable about Ice right now, like I did D1. Maybe if he kept up the facade.
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Okay, remember D1? Jimmmmm died. Why? Why didn't Ice die D1? There are no doctors to my knowledge at the start of the game, and Ice was pretty much the towniest player D1. Then he pulled a disappearing act for a while while IG was going on, reappeared recently, attacked me, and then switched votes to SS. I just don't feel comfortable about Ice right now, like I did D1. Maybe if he kept up the facade.
When I called Ice towniest player, I meant most dangerous. I'm sorry. He had the rhetoric. When you play as scum, you chop off the head of the men/women who are the most vocal and can sway opinions first.
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The logical response would be "so you could use that argument day 2" ;)
But actually I was probably just wrong on IG.
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LA's pseudo-hammer was fairly scummy I think. If I thought lynching today is good, I'd be voting him.
I still think town lynching is always go- Well, faust, you're welcome to keep thinking that no lynching is better if you want, I guess.
All of Silverspawn's figuring (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488139#msg488139) about if he can kill the hated mafia and stuff assumes everyone cooperates and we can coordinate it to work. That doesn't seem likely.
I think I'm inclined to agree with what Grey was saying (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488166#msg488166).
vote: Silverspawn and probbably have page kill Pit.
Then again, maybe we shouldn't have the page kill Pit: What if Pit is mafia and has swamp hag? Can we force him to use the swamp hag ability for town's benefit? Maybe we should say if Pit doesn't use the swamp hag ability then we lynch him. Would that work?
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And here is pit, with the claim of Swamp Hag. Which could have gone to any of the three scum for Pit to claim it and not be counterclaimed. Any of them.
This is not true. There hasn't been a night since the card was distributed. No night = no chance for scum to talk about which cards they got.
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Then again, maybe we shouldn't have the page kill Pit: What if Pit is mafia and has swamp hag? Can we force him to use the swamp hag ability for town's benefit? Maybe we should say if Pit doesn't use the swamp hag ability then we lynch him. Would that work?
How are we supposed to find out if pit used the Swamp Hag? You literally said earlier in this post that coordination will be hard.
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If the Page is town and we no lynch, we need to be 50% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If the Page is scum and we lynch 1 time, we need to be 100% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If Page is town and we double lynch, we need to have 33% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If Page is scum and we double lynch, we need 50% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.
This is correct, but you are pretending as if "have a day 2" is all that counts. It's not. What matters is not reaching the next day, what matters is winning the game. You are ignoring the fact that hitting exactly 1 scum (which is in fact easier if we double lynch (which I mentioned in my conclusion)) leads to a significantly worse situation than hitting exactly one scum if we no-lynch. Note also that, as far as we know, the chance for page to be scum is only 27%. I think you're suffering from confirmation bias and/or neglect of probability - or you are scum.
LA's sheeping here is pretty bad, much worse than your case. I think I want to lynch LA tomorrow - after we no-lynch today.
I could say more about it, but for now I'll hold back. this is quite interesting.
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Page killing pit is meh. If we lynch twice, and it looks as though we will, because people here are just immune to reasoning, then scum can just no kill, leaving us at 6 players, and we have gained no advantage.
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LA's sheeping here is pretty bad, much worse than your case. I think I want to lynch LA tomorrow - after we no-lynch today.
I definitely agree.
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Page killing pit is meh. If we lynch twice, and it looks as though we will, because people here are just immune to reasoning, then scum can just no kill, leaving us at 6 players, and we have gained no advantage.
Wouldn't we have 5? And scum no killing after three flips is good... lots of information from our kills without a scum kill.
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Or we have 9 now? I thought it was 8
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length {Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, GreyICE, Pit, Seprix, WW, LA, IG} = 9
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any other reasons not to no-lynch today?
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Page killing pit is meh. If we lynch twice, and it looks as though we will, because people here are just immune to reasoning, then scum can just no kill, leaving us at 6 players, and we have gained no advantage.
Wouldn't we have 5? And scum no killing after three flips is good... lots of information from our kills without a scum kill.
6 players alive is not really better than 5 players alive, because we have the same number of possible mislynches, but a bigger pool of candidates.
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The logical response would be "so you could use that argument day 2" ;)
But actually I was probably just wrong on IG.
Sorry. Could someone explain what this means?
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Page killing pit is meh. If we lynch twice, and it looks as though we will, because people here are just immune to reasoning, then scum can just no kill, leaving us at 6 players, and we have gained no advantage.
Wouldn't we have 5? And scum no killing after three flips is good... lots of information from our kills without a scum kill.
6 players alive is not really better than 5 players alive, because we have the same number of possible mislynches, but a bigger pool of candidates.
Alright. Well I still like Page shooting Pit. Lynching 1 or 2 today I'm not really fixated on. Though the lynch/no-lynch order doesn't matter, so we might as well lynch first. Unless you think we might get extra time or something?
Vote: LibraryAdventurer
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Alright. Well I still like Page shooting Pit. Lynching 1 or 2 today I'm not really fixated on. Though the lynch/no-lynch order doesn't matter, so we might as well lynch first. Unless you think we might get extra time or something?
Vote: LibraryAdventurer
fine. maybe players will listen tomororw.
vote: LA
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Well, okay then. I would prefer to no lynch today in order to fix things, but I might as well Vote: LA
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Vote Count 2.silver
silverspawn (2): GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer
Seprix (1): IG
LibraryAdventurer (4): Hydrad, Witherweaver, silverspawn, faust
Awaclus (1): Pit
Not Voting (1): Seprix
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Oh, thanks. I didn't notice Hydrad was already voting there.
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I'm not convinced about the LA lynch.
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I'm not convinced about the LA lynch.
Why not? And what lynch do you prefer?
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I'm also quite okay with a Grey lynch.
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I'm also quite okay with a Grey lynch.
Bingo. I can see LA being scum, but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
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Vote Count 2.3
Seprix: Ichimaru Gin,
LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad, Witherweaver, Faust, Silverspawn
Silverspawn: GreyICE, LibraryAdventurer
Not Voting: Pit, Seprix
With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Night 2 begins May 13th.
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I'm not convinced about the LA lynch.
Me neither. Then again, I do have those shifty eyes.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/ebuZ7sDhZcSJO/giphy.gif)
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oh oh Should I ask if I should claim? :P
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you should claim scum if you are scum.
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you should claim scum if you are scum.
If I do, do I get my request a last meal?
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you should claim scum if you are scum.
If I do, do I get my request a last meal?
yes.
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you should claim scum if you are scum.
If I do, do I get my request of a last meal?
(FTFM)
yes.
Oooh. I'm totally mafia. (but not scum. I'm too classy to be scum.)
I want lobster, but also a cheesesteak and rolls from Texas Roadhouse and a brownie sundae with peanut butter
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yeah... this behavior reminds me of my first game as scum. Makes me feel better about the lynch.
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Yeah.. can someone hammer already?
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I'll hammer. Is he really at L-1?
I know I haven't been super involved in this game of late...had a lot of stuff going on with school. Finals are coming up real soon.
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Bingo. I can see LA being scum, but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
This is pretty terrible as well. Looks like a super hedgy partner defense. Let's lynch Seprix after this (provided LA flips scum of course--which looks very likely atm).
Yeah. vote: LibraryAdventurer
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oh oh Should I ask if I should claim? :P
I missed this. I'm laughing all the way to the gallows.
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So do we get a extension in time since we lynched? Or is it the same time for next lynch also.
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XP said Night 2 starts on May 13.
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XP said Night 2 starts on May 13.
ah thanks
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well, vote: nolynch
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We should get some verification of successful lynch; in general we wouldn't know if there was any loved/hated. I'm guessing we'll get a lynch post with no flip?
We should hold out for that.
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
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Yeah, don't like this at all.
vote: Library
I'm pretty sure he's scum now.
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Well, wait. He's done already, isn't he? lol.. I guess I'll find out soon if he really was town.
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Nice save.
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Not soon enough. I don't think I actually die till the end of the day.
Let's see, bucket list...
I think I'll go snorkling in the Mayan cenotes.
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Yeah. LA is most definitely scum. Town would at least show a smidgen of outrage and probably at least try to be helpful or offer reads. It's obvious he's not interested in scumhunting at all.
This makes me very happy.
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Yeah, not liking his attitude. I think we did hit scum.
Who's next? Let's think.. Anyone supporting LA?
Well, I know I did. And I'm already a prime suspect. Ew.
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Yeah. LA is most definitely scum. Town would at least show a smidgen of outrage and probably at least try to be helpful or offer reads. It's obvious he's not interested in scumhunting at all.
This makes me very happy.
I can decide just as easily as a villager that forum mafia is not nearly as fun as IRL mafia, and lose interest in the game.
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Yeah. LA is most definitely scum. Town would at least show a smidgen of outrage and probably at least try to be helpful or offer reads. It's obvious he's not interested in scumhunting at all.
This makes me very happy.
I can decide just as easily as a villager that forum mafia is not nearly as fun as IRL mafia, and lose interest in the game.
It is as fun, you just have to think of it differently. It's a different game to IRL Mafia. :)
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I've never played IRL Mafia and I don't really have any desire to.
What, specifically do you find less enjoyable/not enjoyable about forum mafia? This is just one game after all, they tend to vary a fair amount due to who is playing and the setup, etc.
Also, that kind of sucks if you stopped playing to your wincon. If what you say is true, it's pretty difficult to differentiate that motivation (or lack thereof) from scum. It's not even something that would be on my radar. Why didn't you say anything earlier?
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I've never played IRL Mafia and I don't really have any desire to.
What, specifically do you find less enjoyable/not enjoyable about forum mafia? This is just one game after all, they tend to vary a fair amount due to who is playing and the setup, etc.
For one thing, the game takes weeks instead of an hour or two. hmmm, probably the thing I like most about IRL mafia is the hanging out with people I like while playing a game. And hanging out on a forum just doesn't compare to hanging out with people IRL (not that I don't like the people here).
Also, that kind of sucks if you stopped playing to your wincon.
sorry. But as I said I can't read who's lying by words on a page, especially when I don't know these people. I still haven't a clue who's really mafia, so it's kinda hard to play to my wincon.
If what you say is true,
Which thing was that? I've said contradicting things...
it's pretty difficult to differentiate that motivation (or lack thereof) from scum. It's not even something that would be on my radar. Why didn't you say anything earlier?
say anything about what now?
you mean claim mafia? As I said, I was offered my choice of food so I claimed mafia. Now that I've eaten (and on deathrow where it doesn't matter much anyway), I revert to claiming town.
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I mean say anything about how you weren't really enjoying the game so much. I don't know about others, but that wouldn't have especially bothered me. It's probably for the best you got lynched if you weren't having fun, and it's likely you would have gotten lynched regardless. Still, having the knowledge that you weren't really interested in the game anymore could have been helpful.
Eh. It probably worked out for the best, I'll be dissapointed if you're town though. Not dissapointed in you, just that sad you didn't flip scum when I was sure you would.
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Well, regardless of alignment, I really don't like the attitude, if you're not having fun, you can always replace out instead of hurting the faction you're supposed to play with. If you're town, that seriously sucked for us. And if you're scum, well that's still not the way I want to win games.
Oh, and of course vote: No lynch
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+++
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
Vote: Library
We can still NoLynch later, there is no reason to keep a claimed scum player alive.
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
Vote: Library
We can still NoLynch later, there is no reason to keep a claimed scum player alive.
I think you're a page behind
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
Vote: Library
We can still NoLynch later, there is no reason to keep a claimed scum player alive.
Witherweaver claimed D1. I'm pretty sure nobody but me cared. Why do people care about jokes now?
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
Vote: Library
We can still NoLynch later, there is no reason to keep a claimed scum player alive.
Witherweaver claimed D1. I'm pretty sure nobody but me cared. Why do people care about jokes now?
Well to me joking day 1 in while nothings happened isn't very scummy. It can get scummier as the game progresses. But thats just my opinion so not sure how everyone else feels about it.
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Mod: do we get a confirmation of whether or not the lynch was successful?
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Well, regardless of alignment, I really don't like the attitude, if you're not having fun, you can always replace out instead of hurting the faction you're supposed to play with. If you're town, that seriously sucked for us. And if you're scum, well that's still not the way I want to win games.
Man, I didn't stop trying until I was already being lynched. I don't see why that's so bad.
I really am sorry if I messed up the game for anyone.
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Well, regardless of alignment, I really don't like the attitude, if you're not having fun, you can always replace out instead of hurting the faction you're supposed to play with. If you're town, that seriously sucked for us. And if you're scum, well that's still not the way I want to win games.
Man, I didn't stop trying until I was already being lynched. I don't see why that's so bad.
I really am sorry if I messed up the game for anyone.
I think thats fine. I don't think you messed anything up.
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note that scum has a lot of motivation to keep pretending until he is lynched, which means we can't entirely trust LA. Unfortunately, though, I think it sounds rather sincere.
In that case, we should consider having the page claim. If it's on a scummy player, we might want to double lynch after all, because 0/2 loses the game.
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note that scum has a lot of motivation to keep pretending until he is lynched, which means we can't entirely trust LA. Unfortunately, though, I think it sounds rather sincere.
In that case, we should consider having the page claim. If it's on a scummy player, we might want to double lynch after all, because 0/2 loses the game.
Eh. Page claiming pretty much makes the whole point of choosing Page pointless though. I mean, we chose it to get a pseudo-Cop N3. Having him claim now nullifies that.
...I said Page wasn't a great card, right?
Anyway, lynching the Page guarantees another Day, I guess, so Grey must be in love with that plan. But if the Page is on scum, they of course can simply not claim. In which case we know what's what at least.
Man, I feel like both choices are equally bad.
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I'm VLA for the next few weeks (until May 22). I will still have some access.
Faust, are you certain that No Lynch is better than lynching your top scum read?
For now,
Vote: No Lynch
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I'm VLA for the next few weeks (until May 22). I will still have some access.
Faust, are you certain that No Lynch is better than lynching your top scum read?
For now,
Vote: No Lynch
is your avatar change permanent? I identified you so much with your old avatar.
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Now you may identify me with my new avatar.
Old avatar did have the fundamental flaw that no one could read it.
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Now you may identify me with my new avatar.
Old avatar did have the fundamental flaw that no one could read it.
there was text on it?
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:(
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I remember asking you about it when you first got an avatar. You linked me to a larger version of it; iirc it was from a tv show?
Wow, that must have been all the way back in House of Cards
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Yay, so we didn't lynch the guy with the obvious fakeclaim, and instead lynched town. Faust makes a nice long speech about how it sucks to win as scum that way, then votes No Lynch - in the situation that if page is scum, we have now lost.
Vote: Silverspawn
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Yay, so we didn't lynch the guy with the obvious fakeclaim, and instead lynched town. Faust makes a nice long speech about how it sucks to win as scum that way, then votes No Lynch - in the situation that if page is scum, we have now lost.
Vote: Silverspawn
I don't quite understand how your vote is tied to the paragraph before it.
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LibraryAdventurer is successfully lynched, but the sun hangs suspended just over the horizon. There's still some day left - enough for another lynch!
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good. except we don't another lynch.
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We don't?
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*want
We don't?
no. why would we?
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Yeah. Either way, it's best to no lynch now I think. So vote: no lynch.
If Library is telling the truth, and he was just town that lost interest, we should definitely not lynch anyone else today. And if he was lying, then hey, we hit scum. Enough people are probably already going to die when night comes. If Library is scum, better to make further lynch choices when that is confirmed.
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And now, everyone should just vote no lynch, since with 3 people voting no lynch, it's pretty much impossible to get anyone lynched.
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Yeah. Either way, it's best to no lynch now I think. So vote: no lynch.
If Library is telling the truth, and he was just town that lost interest, we should definitely not lynch anyone else today. And if he was lying, then hey, we hit scum. Enough people are probably already going to die when night comes. If Library is scum, better to make further lynch choices when that is confirmed.
If he was town
And the page is scum
We just lost.
Vote: Silverspawn
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Damn. I must have forgotten this setup is a smaller one. unvote for now I guess.
Why then are so many people pushing the no-lynch thing? They can't all be scum. Do you think it's just scum + misguided town?
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Damn. I must have forgotten this setup is a smaller one. unvote for now I guess.
Why then are so many people pushing the no-lynch thing? They can't all be scum. Do you think it's just scum + misguided town?
So many people = me and silver? Well, yes, we're not both scum, but I wonder how you should know that.
So yes, if the Page is scum, it sucks. I pointed that out D1, but you all wanted it. I just hope that either LA is scum or Page is town, because otherwise we're pretty screwed no matter what we do.
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What are you talking about? I guess I was mistaken in how many people were supporting it? I'm certain there were more than just you and silver voting no lynch though. Yeah you're wrong, at the least, WW is also voting that way.
This feels exceedingly fake coming from you.
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I mean, what the heck, how you do know silver isn't scum?
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What are you talking about? I guess I was mistaken in how many people were supporting it? I'm certain there were more than just you and silver voting no lynch though. Yeah you're wrong, at the least, WW is also voting that way.
This feels exceedingly fake coming from you.
Ah, I missed WW. What feels fake? Where am I wrong or where is silver wrong? He did a pretty sound analysis of the outcomes.
Basically, our situation is like this: We have a choice between A and B. If we choose A, there's a 50% chance we'll get 100$ and a 50% chance that we get nothing. If we choose B, there's a 67% chance that we get 50$, and a 33% chance that we get nothing.
I'm arguing for A, Grey is arguing for B.
PPE: 1
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I mean, what the heck, how you do know silver isn't scum?
Huh? I didn't say that. I said we're not both scum, which I know because I'm not.
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I appreciate the summary of the different sides.
What feels fake is you acting as if my partially incorrect assumption that there were lots of people that agreed with you and subsequent statement founded on that assumption would still hold true if my first statement was in fact incorrect. My statement that not all the people supporting no lynch could be scum was obviously predicated on the fact that I thought there were more people supporting no lynch than could actually possibly be scum (like 4).
PPE: Ah, I missed that nuance it seems. That makes more sense.
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honestly, we can also lynch GreyICE. The way he treats LA as comfirmed town, even though scum has motivation to lie there, just confirms my scum read.
as the first non-votecount usage of this program I'm working on, here is his voting history
(http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150507/a3b65i4c.png)
so.. this is bad. Awaclus is comf!town, IG is my biggest town read: Seprix might be scuum, but he jumped off of him quickly. And now me, who is also town.
so... no-lynch or lynch grey?
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Your program looks nice!
I'm no too opposed to a Grey lynch in general, but not "lynch him immediately"-convinced. I'd prefer to no lynch today still.
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Also, look at how quiet this has become. We need the night and the new stuff happening for people to get active again, I fear.
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So I don't understand how no lynch is better. I'm not paying attention though.
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So I don't understand how no lynch is better. I'm not paying attention though.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488139#msg488139 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488139#msg488139)
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Ooh. I don't like our position.
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I'm okay with lynching Grey, or Ichi. I'm flip flopping on Silver.
I'm pretty convinced Faust is town.. Seprix still can't read.
I need to reread, but the chances of that are actually fairly small.
I'm still at No Lynch; mostly just because I trust Faust.
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Why me all the sudden?
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Why me all the sudden?
Mostly no strong inclination to believe you're town, so PoE.
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IG is town. But I think casually expressing a desire to lynch him based on PoE is towny too.
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ok but unless someone says otherwise no lynch is the correct decision? Because I'll vote there then.
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page should shoot GreyICE.
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I still prefer shooting Seprix.
Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
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I still prefer shooting Seprix.
Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
nooo you though i was towny before. I miss those days.
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I'm okay with lynching Grey, or Ichi. I'm flip flopping on Silver.
I'm pretty convinced Faust is town.. Seprix still can't read.
I need to reread, but the chances of that are actually fairly small.
I'm still at No Lynch; mostly just because I trust Faust.
I still prefer shooting Seprix.
Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
Weren't you on the "shoot pit" plan?
And I admire Silver's program. It looks like... a red line. Wait, no, he's scum, and he's hiding behind a lame graph.
I'll tell you what, $20 down, Silver is scum. He wants the Page to shoot me. Fine, lets lynch him. If he flips town, I invite the page to shoot away. Hell, he can have his buddy shoot away anyway.
If Silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow. I absolutely guarantee he's scum.
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I'm okay with lynching Grey, or Ichi. I'm flip flopping on Silver.
I'm pretty convinced Faust is town.. Seprix still can't read.
I need to reread, but the chances of that are actually fairly small.
I'm still at No Lynch; mostly just because I trust Faust.
I still prefer shooting Seprix.
Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
Weren't you on the "shoot pit" plan?
And I admire Silver's program. It looks like... a red line. Wait, no, he's scum, and he's hiding behind a lame graph.
I'll tell you what, $20 down, Silver is scum. He wants the Page to shoot me. Fine, lets lynch him. If he flips town, I invite the page to shoot away. Hell, he can have his buddy shoot away anyway.
If Silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow. I absolutely guarantee he's scum.
I'm not hiding behind anything. the program shows anyone's wagon history, which is relevant. Are you implying I wrote it in order to 'hide' behind it? that's some serious commitment. Or are you implying I only made this little picture without writing anything? I can generate one with lines for all players in five seconds. But why does any of it matter? I could have easily, yknow, not posted this graph, done everything else exactly the same, and that's it. It's just a little bit of information about your wagon history, nothing else.
you aren't making much sense. And your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you.
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Also,
If silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow.
ha, ha. If you mislynch me, the game is over tomorrow. There is zero risk involved in making this promise.
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Also,
If silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow.
ha, ha. If you mislynch me, the game is over tomorrow. There is zero risk involved in making this promise.
vote: No Lynch
The game is up. We need to kill GreyICE asap. He played a good game.
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at this point, I'm starting to prefer a grey lynch over a no lynch.
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although I guess if grey is scum than page must be town
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if you believe that, shouldn't we just lynch him now then?
Phone post
PPE: 2
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If it's worth the risk SS, I'll lynch Grey.
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I'm okay with lynching Grey, or Ichi. I'm flip flopping on Silver.
I'm pretty convinced Faust is town.. Seprix still can't read.
I need to reread, but the chances of that are actually fairly small.
I'm still at No Lynch; mostly just because I trust Faust.
I still prefer shooting Seprix.
Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
Weren't you on the "shoot pit" plan?
And I admire Silver's program. It looks like... a red line. Wait, no, he's scum, and he's hiding behind a lame graph.
I'll tell you what, $20 down, Silver is scum. He wants the Page to shoot me. Fine, lets lynch him. If he flips town, I invite the page to shoot away. Hell, he can have his buddy shoot away anyway.
If Silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow. I absolutely guarantee he's scum.
Yes, I meant shoot Pit.
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Also,
If silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow.
ha, ha. If you mislynch me, the game is over tomorrow. There is zero risk involved in making this promise.
vote: No Lynch
The game is up. We need to kill GreyICE asap. He played a good game.
?
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I'm not hiding behind anything. the program shows anyone's wagon history, which is relevant. Are you implying I wrote it in order to 'hide' behind it? that's some serious commitment. Or are you implying I only made this little picture without writing anything? I can generate one with lines for all players in five seconds. But why does any of it matter? I could have easily, yknow, not posted this graph, done everything else exactly the same, and that's it. It's just a little bit of information about your wagon history, nothing else.
you aren't making much sense. And your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you.
I've been calling you scum since day 1, you liar.
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I really fucking hate when someone starts babbling lies out of nowhere.
It's like, come on, I know you're scum. But do you have to just blatantly lie like that?
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As for your program, I'm sure you wrote it ages ago. It is only as good an analysis as the mind behind it. You gave no reasoning behind it.
Either I am to determine you are incapable of providing reasoning or I am to determine it is impossible to give reasoning from a town perspective.
I know which it is, Silver.
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I really fucking hate when someone starts babbling lies out of nowhere.
It's like, come on, I know you're scum. But do you have to just blatantly lie like that?
You continue not to make sense. I didn't say "you didn't think I'm scummy day 1". I said "your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you."
scumread =/= "absolutely guaranteeing" I'm scum
I mean, I had a pretty strong scumread on you prior to this post, but even that's just something like 75%. I don't think I ever had a ready that went above 80%. 'absolutely guaranteeing' is a big difference.
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*read
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As for your program, I'm sure you wrote it ages ago. It is only as good an analysis as the mind behind it. You gave no reasoning behind it.
Either I am to determine you are incapable of providing reasoning or I am to determine it is impossible to give reasoning from a town perspective.
I know which it is, Silver.
what? I only used it to show your wagon history, said a few sentences about why i think it's bad, and that's it.
and now, I started writing it less than a week ago.
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*no
I should really use preview
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I really fucking hate when someone starts babbling lies out of nowhere.
It's like, come on, I know you're scum. But do you have to just blatantly lie like that?
You continue not to make sense. I didn't say "you didn't think I'm scummy day 1". I said "your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you."
scumread =/= "absolutely guaranteeing" I'm scum
I mean, I had a pretty strong scumread on you prior to this post, but even that's just something like 75%. I don't think I ever had a ready that went above 80%. 'absolutely guaranteeing' is a big difference.
So, let me get this straight. You said I had a scumread on you day 1. You then go on to defend your statement that my scumread on you "came out of nowhere"? Oh no, it most certainly did not. I explained exactly where it came from. You are lying to cover it up, because you know you can't argue my points. And you cannot argue my points, because they are exactly accurate.
But let me extend your hypothesis. If I am scum, the page went to town, by your own logic. So this is safe as houses.
We lynch Silverspawn today. If he flips town, Page, shoot me.
How does that sound, Silver?
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How does that sound, Silver?
eh, if we mislynch me and then shoot you, scum is in an excellent position. If we lynch you / shoot you without mislynching me scum is in a worse position.
I mean, it's a really good gamble as supposed to no gamble at all for scum; and that's the difference.
you can't honestly tell me that scum!you wouldn't do this.
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Silver doesn't sound particularly scummy here.
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So, let me get this straight. You said I had a scumread on you day 1. You then go on to defend your statement that my scumread on you "came out of nowhere"? Oh no, it most certainly did not. I explained exactly where it came from. You are lying to cover it up, because you know you can't argue my points. And you cannot argue my points, because they are exactly accurate.
I vaguely remember you finding me scummy day 1. I remember you finding me scummier day 2. And then you suddenly jumped to a hyper super confident and totally wrong scum read, which provoked me to say "out of nowhere." Yes, it was not entirely accurate. You are right about me being slightly off with one sentence. Gratz!
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Also, scum reads out of nowhere is not scummy. Consistency is scummy.
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As for wagon analysis, lets do some:
Awaclus(6): Jimmmm, Silverspawn, Seprix, pit, Ichimaru Gin, Library Adventurer, witherweaver
Here you are, Silverspawn, lynching town.
xxpittip (4): Witherweaver, GreyICE, Seprix, LibraryAdventurer (L-1)
Silverscum, not on a scum wagon. How surprising.
LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad, Witherweaver, Faust, Silverspawn, xxpittip
Here you are, lynching town again.
Lets do some basic wagon analysis. There are three players in the game who have been on both Awaclus and LA. Of them, two of them have NOT been on Pit.
Hi, Silverscum. Hi pit.
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How do you know that LA is town? You can't know that! We have another day! His alignment influences our decision! Why shouldn't he keep pretending?
Oh... right. You know he is town because you are scum.
I mean, there is no other explanation.
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Not to mention, why do you know pit is scum?
You're basing your entire "analysis" on 2 reads and pretend like they are facts.
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'silverscum' has a nice ring to it though.
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How does that sound, Silver?
eh, if we mislynch me and then shoot you, scum is in an excellent position. If we lynch you / shoot you without mislynching me scum is in a worse position.
I mean, it's a really good gamble as supposed to no gamble at all for scum; and that's the difference.
you can't honestly tell me that scum!you wouldn't do this.
Actually, yes, scum-me would never call to be vigged, because shit like that has a way of happening. Scum-me would never fight the LA lynch, because you never fight free lynches.
This agreement is WONDERFUL for Silver-town. Lets go over the possibilities:
1) I am scum, LA is scum, you are town: You trade your life for two scum, and a near-guaranteed win. Congratulations!
2) I am scum, LA is town, you are town: You've voted to lynch town twice. That makes you at best, a detriment for your team. In that case trading your life for scum is great, because your play has been objectively terrible.
So either way this is a great deal for you, Silver! Well, except for possibility 3:
3) I am town, you are scum: I'm basically confirmed town tomorrow, or you night kill me and set off swamp hag/confirm pit-scum.
But of course that couldn't happen, it's gotta be 1 or 2, right Silver? Great deal, right silver?
One time offer now, jump on board, townie
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How do you know that LA is town? You can't know that! We have another day! His alignment influences our decision! Why shouldn't he keep pretending?
Oh... right. You know he is town because you are scum.
I mean, there is no other explanation.
Right, there's no other explanation.
Except I've been calling him town all day. And am extremely mad you found enough useful idiots to get that lynch through.
It's hilarious you're trying to pin TWO DIFFERENT town lynches on me, when you're the one who voted to lynch them, silver.
Come on, your play is objectively awful if you're town. Have some basic courage, and vote for a plan that will leave scum dead. Vote for yourself, silver.
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Your logic makes absolutely no sense. I have 2 options. One: sacrifice myself and get you lynched. Two: get you lynched directly. One is better independent of the alignment of anyone else. End of story.
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Come on, your play is objectively awful if you're town. Have some basic courage, and vote for a plan that will leave scum dead. Vote for yourself, silver.
You continue to make no sense. I am town, so voting myself is bad for my town. But even if I was scum, voting myself would obviously be bad for scum. In either case, voting for myself is bad for my alignment.
I don't know about you, but if I play mafia, it's usually my only goal to help my alignment. Thus, self-voting is bad.
(obv self-voting is bad in every situation for the same reasons)
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Your logic makes absolutely no sense. I have 2 options. One: sacrifice myself and get you lynched. Two: get you lynched directly. One is better independent of the alignment of anyone else. End of story.
Oh I know getting me lynched is much better for your alignment.
I just want you to come out and say it.
Silver votes please, lets get a scum lynch in before the double town kill tonight.
Or are you going to claim Page, Silver? Were you explaining why you were going to shoot me tonight, in case the game doesn't end for some reason after your no-lynch scheme?
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Except I've been calling him town all day. And am extremely mad you found enough useful idiots to get that lynch through.
You probably shouldn't call other players idiots.
Yes, you had a town read on him. A - town - read. Basing logic on a read is not good, unless that read is super strong. And, well, since I know your super strong read on me is false, I am forced to not trust your other super strong read.
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See, your aggression towards me has a fundamental problem: If you really thought I was scum, you would have to assume that I played a great game for my alignment, getting 2 towns lynched and being a town read for the majority of players. So... why would you call me a bad player, and continue to empathize how bad my play is. You should think I'm a really good player.
Which is why I think that you don't actually think I'm scum, which can only mean you are scum.
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Uhm... so far you're the only living player who think I'm scummy, so I don't think I have to claim anything.
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You probably shouldn't call other players idiots.
Yes, you had a town read on him. A - town - read. Basing logic on a read is not good, unless that read is super strong. And, well, since I know your super strong read on me is false, I am forced to not trust your other super strong read.
I thought I knew he was town because I was scum. Now it's back to being reads of mine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
As for the phrase "useful idiots" I'm sure people can figure out what it means. Don't sit here and scumplain about phrasing. You've been on two town lynches so far, and avoided the Pit wagon.
What does your own program say about your own voting record?
Pedit:
See, your aggression towards me has a fundamental problem: If you really thought I was scum, you would have to assume that I played a great game for my alignment, getting 2 towns lynched and being a town read for the majority of players. So... why would you call me a bad player, and continue to empathize how bad my play is. You should think I'm a really good player.
Which is why I think that you don't actually think I'm scum, which can only mean you are scum.
You were playing a decent game for your alignment. I am pointing out if you are town, your play has been objectively complete shit. So trading your life for scum could only be called no great loss. And yet here you are, hesitating. Because of course you will be trading your life for nothing. You will flip red, your team will be forced to night kill me.
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I thought I knew he was town because I was scum. Now it's back to being reads of mine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
I was making a statement form your perspective. That's what you do to show how someone is making no sense. He states some kind of logical flow of events (which in this case implicitly includes the assumption that you are town), and point out the flaws in his logic based on said assumptions. I'm pretty sure you're not new to this concept. Taking this little bit out of context here comes across as pretty desperate.
As for the phrase "useful idiots" I'm sure people can figure out what it means. Don't sit here and scumplain about phrasing. You've been on two town lynches so far, and avoided the Pit wagon.
yeah, but we don't call people idiots on f.ds, period.
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You were playing a decent game for your alignment. I am pointing out if you are town, your play has been objectively complete shit. So trading your life for scum could only be called no great loss. And yet here you are, hesitating. Because of course you will be trading your life for nothing. You will flip red, your team will be forced to night kill me.
I'm not 'hesitating'; that would imply being close to accepting your insane ideas, which I'm not.
And, obviously, my play is not objectively bad just because I am on one town wagon, which is all the facts you have.
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What does your own program say about your own voting record?
http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150509/snqd9rgm.png
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I haven't actually included no-lynch yet though, so that's slightly off.
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I thought I knew he was town because I was scum. Now it's back to being reads of mine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
I was making a statement form your perspective. That's what you do to show how someone is making no sense. He states some kind of logical flow of events (which in this case implicitly includes the assumption that you are town), and point out the flaws in his logic based on said assumptions. I'm pretty sure you're not new to this concept. Taking this little bit out of context here comes across as pretty desperate.
As for the phrase "useful idiots" I'm sure people can figure out what it means. Don't sit here and scumplain about phrasing. You've been on two town lynches so far, and avoided the Pit wagon.
yeah, but we don't call people idiots on f.ds, period.
So lets go over my perspective:
1) I call LA town
2) I call you scum and pit scum. Pit claims a power role (surprise surprise!) so no one wants to lynch him. I move to voting you
3) You get LA lynched. I call it a town lynch, and go back to voting you.
4) You complain that I am inconsistent.
Is this about accurate?
I'm not 'hesitating'; that would imply being close to accepting your insane ideas, which I'm not.
And, obviously, my play is not objectively bad just because I am on one town wagon, which is all the facts you have.
Then congratulations! Since you are maintaining that LA is scum, with my vig we'll have two dead scum from your perspective, right Silver? Doesn't that sound great to you?
See, either LA is scum and we'll have two dead scum from Silver-town perspective
Or LA is town, and your Silver-town play is objectively terrible, so you should be happy to trade your life for one scum
Only by maintaining this Heisenburg Box of a vote where you maintain he is neither scum nor town can you argue anything other than your own lynch is the most beneficial possible play here.
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Ladies, ladies..
We lynch Grey. If Grey is scum, SS is town. Grey!scum is more likely in my eyes. You both bring up very nice points, to the point where you're playing phenomenally. Like, wow. But Grey, behind your words of aggression designed to make people crumble, I do not see as valid points. Why don't we not lynch as we agreed, and have Page kill one of you instead?
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thanks! I don't really think Grey is making good points, but eh.
You simplify things and take them out of context and I'm going to bed now. Short version:
#1: just because your reads are consistent doesn't mean treating them as facts is good
#2: wrong line of thinking, it doesn't matter how good A is if B is better, plus I don't think LA is scum; I was just pointing out that it's possible.
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Ladies, ladies..
We lynch Grey. If Grey is scum, SS is town. Grey!scum is more likely in my eyes. You both bring up very nice points, to the point where you're playing phenomenally. Like, wow. But Grey, behind your words of aggression designed to make people crumble, I do not see as valid points. Why don't we not lynch as we agreed, and have Page kill one of you instead?
That's extremely funny, Seprix. You thought my point was valid on day 1.
This is one of my favorite scum strategies when voting for someone. Tell them how good their play are. It accomplishes many things:
- It makes them feel warm and fuzzy about you, so inherently deflects attention (awww, he really likes my play! Warm fuzzies~)
- It inherently excuses a town flip (Oh I can't read him anyway)
- It's a really weak vote. That can sometimes be playstyle, but town tends to vote stronger than scum. As a wagon vote with this reasoning... bad juju.
I did this when I was scum. I think this is fantastic reasoning, and should not be discredited at all. Seems I have another Mafia idol besides SS now. But idols are bad, and bad is scummy
What happened, Seprix? Did it become too realistic that deed might have to follow word?
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Ladies, ladies..
We lynch Grey. If Grey is scum, SS is town. Grey!scum is more likely in my eyes. You both bring up very nice points, to the point where you're playing phenomenally. Like, wow. But Grey, behind your words of aggression designed to make people crumble, I do not see as valid points. Why don't we not lynch as we agreed, and have Page kill one of you instead?
That's extremely funny, Seprix. You thought my point was valid on day 1.
This is one of my favorite scum strategies when voting for someone. Tell them how good their play are. It accomplishes many things:
- It makes them feel warm and fuzzy about you, so inherently deflects attention (awww, he really likes my play! Warm fuzzies~)
- It inherently excuses a town flip (Oh I can't read him anyway)
- It's a really weak vote. That can sometimes be playstyle, but town tends to vote stronger than scum. As a wagon vote with this reasoning... bad juju.
I did this when I was scum. I think this is fantastic reasoning, and should not be discredited at all. Seems I have another Mafia idol besides SS now. But idols are bad, and bad is scummy
What happened, Seprix? Did it become too realistic that deed might have to follow word?
You're more than capable of faking town.
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That wasn't the question, Seprix. When did the point go from valid to invalid?
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I mean if your entire hypothesis is that I am aggressive as either alignment, then all you'd have to go on is how valid my points are.
And wow, you thought my point was super valid on day 1!
But now it's not valid. Now my reasons are invalid. But it's the same person.
This seems a surprising change!
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That wasn't the question, Seprix. When did the point go from valid to invalid?
What point? The one where you say that sucking up can be scummy? What does that even have to do with anything?
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That wasn't the question, Seprix. When did the point go from valid to invalid?
What point? The one where you say that sucking up can be scummy? What does that even have to do with anything?
Yes. The point that was a knock on Silverspawn
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That wasn't the question, Seprix. When did the point go from valid to invalid?
What point? The one where you say that sucking up can be scummy? What does that even have to do with anything?
Yes. The point that was a knock on Silverspawn
But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.
If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
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But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.
If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check. Zero votes on me? Le assault, it is so overwhelming.
So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum? And you have me as the more likely scum?
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I'm here. I haven't caught up yet. Will post when I do. Looks like things are getting...interesting again.
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But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.
If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check. Zero votes on me? Le assault, it is so overwhelming.
So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum? And you have me as the more likely scum?
This can't be town vs. town. This can't be scum against scum.
It's you or SS here. You'll both probably be dead by tomorrow's lynch, sadly because the survivor will be either auto-town or auto-scum.
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But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.
If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check. Zero votes on me? Le assault, it is so overwhelming.
So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum? And you have me as the more likely scum?
This can't be town vs. town.
What is your reasoning here, Seprix?
Getting any sort of firm statement out of you has been like pulling teeth. In fact you've remarked several times on your uncertainty. But suddenly this uncertainty is lacking. But not on which one of us is scum, just on whether or not scum exists in the two of us.
But, since you agree with me, then lets apply basic logic. This is totally irrefutable.
1) If Silverspawn is scum, then it is extremely likely scum have the page. Their support for Faust's no lynch plan argues they don't expect the game to continue after today.
2) Per Silverspawn and Faust's logic, if I am scum, then it is extremely likely that scum don't have the page, since apparently I want an extra lynch to dodge the Swamp Hag (and apparently Pit is also town, but lets ignore how ridiculous that is).
Okay, lets look at this. Since you are absolutely, utterly, 100% convinced that there is scum in the two of us, the most logical move for you is to Vote: Silverspawn, and ask the Page to shoot me if he's town.
So what's your course of action here?
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But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.
If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check. Zero votes on me? Le assault, it is so overwhelming.
So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum? And you have me as the more likely scum?
This can't be town vs. town.
What is your reasoning here, Seprix?
Getting any sort of firm statement out of you has been like pulling teeth. In fact you've remarked several times on your uncertainty. But suddenly this uncertainty is lacking. But not on which one of us is scum, just on whether or not scum exists in the two of us.
But, since you agree with me, then lets apply basic logic. This is totally irrefutable.
1) If Silverspawn is scum, then it is extremely likely scum have the page. Their support for Faust's no lynch plan argues they don't expect the game to continue after today.
2) Per Silverspawn and Faust's logic, if I am scum, then it is extremely likely that scum don't have the page, since apparently I want an extra lynch to dodge the Swamp Hag (and apparently Pit is also town, but lets ignore how ridiculous that is).
Okay, lets look at this. Since you are absolutely, utterly, 100% convinced that there is scum in the two of us, the most logical move for you is to Vote: Silverspawn, and ask the Page to shoot me if he's town.
So what's your course of action here?
Besides the slight objection I have where you are objecting to a No Lynch, I'm thinking you may actually be right here. If you're scum, there's no way scum wins if we mislynch SS.
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So is your lynchpool Faust, Pit, and SS?
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Okay. SS is interested in self-preservation over a town win, but if he was town, he'd still want the same deal. But Grey's plan is a guaranteed way to lynch scum and buy a bit more time. I hate flipflopping, but I think this may be the right thing to do here. It's certainly better than a No Lynch, right?
vote: SS
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It's certainly better than a No Lynch, right?
ahm, no. it's not. GreyICE just continued to make logically broken arguments and this time you bought it. In this case, he pretended as though reaching tomorrow was the only thing which matters in this game. As you can see here, his plan would inevitably (unless LA is town) result in this line:
we are at 5 with 2:3 and one scum is hated**
whereas no-lynching and hitting scum with the page results in
we are at 7 with 2:5
which is a huge difference.
assuming Grey is scum, no-lynch puts us at 2-5, while lynching (assuming we do not follow his anti-town plan) either puts us at 2-3 or at 1:5 if we hit scum twice.
this pretty clearly shows that no-lynching is better - 1:5 is a bad number, because it just allows for one misslynch, which is exactly what we get it 2-5.
changer your vote. no-lynch. and let page shoot Grey.
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*change
oh, and the 'here' was supposed to link to here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.900)
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you aren't blind to logic, which is why I'm confident that this is what you will do.
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Man, he proposes a plan which, according to his own logic, would inevitably lead to a 2:3 scenario. That's another 5% for his scum read, at least.
But it doesn't matter how big my scumread on him is. no-lynching is better, as it increases our information and thus chance to hit scum for the next lynch. If we no-lynch now and lynch correctly tomorrow, which is the equivalent for shooting and lynching correctly today, we're at 1:4, which is just as good as 1:5
actually, an the more confident I am about grey's scuminess, the better no-lynching becomes compared to a lynch.
I just hope this is enough to make page see how scummy he is.
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This is insane, I'm going to actually do the math myself!
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This is insane, I'm going to actually do the math myself!
I need to know exactly what Page and Swamp Hag do. I've been confused by this all game, it can't be helping my town play.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
Then I dare you to lynch me. I guarantee you town doesn't get you any closer to winning if I die.
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This is insane, I'm going to actually do the math myself!
I need to know exactly what Page and Swamp Hag do. I've been confused by this all game, it can't be helping my town play.
Page:
Night 1 : bulletproof (already happened)
Night 2 : vig
Night 3 : Neighborhood thing (this doesn't really influence the decision at hand)
Night 4 : Permanently bulletproof (that won't be relevant)
Swamp Hag : If scum kills a player next night, one scum will be hated.
If you dig into the logic, you'll probably just see that everything I wrote here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.900) is accurate - or, if you don't, I'm happy to hear why.
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correction : page night 1 is bodyguard, not bulletproof. But, again, it already happened.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
worse than Grey? Why?
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
My first instinct is to agree.
My second is, does scum let themselves be talked into voting that way? Maybe. It kind of falls into the "is scum that blatant?" thing.
Ichi, what happened to the "Sperix is too scummy to be too scummy to be scum" thing?
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Ok. I'm back. I'm pretty much caught up now. faust's recent statement pretty much sums up how I feel.
Ichi, what happened to the "Sperix is too scummy to be too scummy to be scum" thing?
I don't recall ever saying something to that effect. Seprix looks like he's just not trying here.
In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
Then I dare you to lynch me. I guarantee you town doesn't get you any closer to winning if I die.
Yeah. vote: Seprix. Honestly, it's difficult for me to tell scum!Seprix from town!Seprix, but there's just so much bluster and obfuscation here.
I need to know exactly what Page and Swamp Hag do. I've been confused by this all game, it can't be helping my town play.
Look. I'm town!
Okay. SS is interested in self-preservation over a town win, but if he was town, he'd still want the same deal. But Grey's plan is a guaranteed way to lynch scum and buy a bit more time. I hate flipflopping, but I think this may be the right thing to do here. It's certainly better than a No Lynch, right?
vote: SS
What? How is Grey's plan "guaranteed" to lynch scum. It does not buy more time either by a long shot, unless silver is actually scum--which I highly doubt at this juncture.
I'd be more inclined to take Grey's arguments seriously if they weren't sprinkled with ad hominems. Silver is not "hiding" behind his graphs and calling people who support people you disagree with "willing idiots" is just...
I mean, it's not so much the language itself I take issue with, I just don't think strong arguments require that sort of emotional or inflammatory element in order to be compelling. Here, it simply works to discredit him (at least to me). If the case for lynching silver today was so good, why bring in this other stuff?
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If you're scum, there's no way scum wins if we mislynch SS.
This makes no sense.
If LA and SS are both town and both get lynched today, the only thing that will save us is a town!Page shooting scum.
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@Ichi: and why lynch over no-lynch?
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See. That's one thing I'm having a bit of trouble with.
At the same time though, I guess my reads aren't strong enough to risk the game over. It's possible that whoever got page is town as well. They know who they should shoot.
But isn't that basically the same risk? If Page shoots Seprix tonight and he flips town--that along with a NK will also cost us the game (assuming LA is town as well).
Uh. There's so many possibilities of town!Page, scum!Page, page hits town, page hits scum, LA is town, LA is scum...
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If I was scum, I wouldn't play so carelessly. I'm not trying hard right now. Sure, I'm more than capable of 'faking' it, but honestly. That's really really stupid.
So yeah, don't lynch me. Bad idea. Here's an idea. We should still do the no-lynch, right? I mean, Gray doesn't want it if he's scum. He's good at making arguments. Really good. I'm an impressionable young man, I can be swayed.
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See. That's one thing I'm having a bit of trouble with.
At the same time though, I guess my reads aren't strong enough to risk the game over. It's possible that whoever got page is town as well. They know who they should shoot.
But isn't that basically the same risk? If Page shoots Seprix tonight and he flips town--that along with a NK will also cost us the game (assuming LA is town as well).
Uh. There's so many possibilities of town!Page, scum!Page, page hits town, page hits scum, LA is town, LA is scum...
assuming LA is town, it's like this:
if we no-lynch, we're either at 5-2 or dead.
if we lynch, we're either at 5-1, 3-2, or dead.
to figure out which is better, one approach is to assign possibilities / win% to each node, and see what results you get. even though your estimations are obviously vague, it can still paint a pretty clear picture if one result ends up being significantly better than the other.
Let me try to do this (blindly!)
We hit scum with just the vig: 75% (A1)
{We hit town with just the vig: 25%}
We hit two scum with vig + lynch: 30% (A2)
We hit one scum with vig + lynch: 55% (A3)
{We hit no scum with vig + lynch: 15%}
win% at 5-2: 60% (S1)
win% at 5-1: 75% (S2)
win% at 3-2: 20% (S3)
no-lynch win% = A1 * S1 = 45%
lynch wins: A2 * S2 + A3 * S3 = 33%
=> no-lynch - as expected - is better
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Thank you. That makes things exceedingly clear. vote: no lynch then.
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Silverspawn may deceive us but math would never do that. Right?
Vote: no lynch
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vote: no lynch
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well, I didn't expect that last post to suddenly convince everyone, but I'm not complaining. Was that the hammer?
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Please tell me you're town.
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Please tell me you're town.
me?
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Yes. I don't know. I don't trust that Seprix is supporting this now.
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Yes. I don't know. I don't trust that Seprix is supporting this now.
I'm town.
I also don't trust Seprix. I mean, he is probably my second strongest scum read.
I'm not even sure that was the hammer though. Let me check.
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uh, I think that was actually even overhammer. you, Seprix, Hydrad, faust (?), WW (?), me = 6 of 5
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Guys, trust me. Please.
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Okay, I did include no-lynches into the program now, so here is a vote count:
Vote Count 2.silver.2
silverspawn (2): LibraryAdventurer, GreyICE
LibraryAdventurer (1): Pit
No-Lynch (6): silverspawn, faust, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, Seprix
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So... Hydrad's vote was actually already the hammer.
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well, I guess LA isn't part of the game anymore.
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Corrected Vote Count:
silverspawn (1): GreyICE
No-Lynch (6): silverspawn, faust, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, Seprix
Not Voting (1): Pit
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
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So, that's it. Day over as soon as XP comes back.
Now we just gotta hope page shoots scum... or LA was actually scum. Or both.
Flip incoming.
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If I was right (and we hit scum) I think we should expect a no-kill tonight, because otherwise scum is hated at 2:4 and we can catch them.
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And the sun finally sets on this long, long, day. The villagers calm down and resist the supernatural frenzy urging them to lynch a second time in the day. Now finally examining the body of LibraryAdventurer, they find him to be a mafia goon.
The night begins.
Thread Locked
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Check your QTs, guys. vote give one extra day to vote.
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Silverspawn, a vanilla townie disappeared permanently. Most think he may have been threatened in a PM. Day 3 begins!
Not Voting: GreyICE, Pit, faust, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, Seprix
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SS dies. #1 enemy of Ice.
HRRRRMMMMMMMMMMM.....
vote: GreyICE
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Pheww... I seriously have to reread. I forgot next to everything.
Only one death means scum didn't kill, right? Interesting. Seprix' vote makes no sense, so that's bad.
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Well, we don't know that Page shot.. and if so, Silver dying is a little bit suspicious.
Pit being absent is also unfortunate, as he was the one that claimed Swamp Hag, right? So we don't know if Swamp Hag was used.
I find GreyICE suspicious due to his treatment of Library; I said this in our QT.
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Yeah. Top scumreads for today are GreyICE and Seprix.
I might have something to say later, but I tend to be claim-happy so I'm gonna think about it first.
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Woo I almost forgot this game exsisted a few times! Its been so long friends. How are you guys
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Oh wow yeah. It's been like 8 days...
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Actually 13. Yeah. I'm definitely gonna have to refresh my self about this game.
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Well, we don't know that Page shot.. and if so, Silver dying is a little bit suspicious.
Pit being absent is also unfortunate, as he was the one that claimed Swamp Hag, right? So we don't know if Swamp Hag was used.
I find GreyICE suspicious due to his treatment of Library; I said this in our QT.
Page had to shoot, right? This was our whole problem and we talked about it for like days.
To fair fair, you weren't there yet.
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I don't know. But why shoot Silverspawn?
Do we lose something with Page claiming now?
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So what's happening to this game?
I still haven't reread, but I'm done with this semester--so I'll have more time for a few weeks. I can easily see Grey being that forward as scum in his treatment of LA though.
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I'm all alooooooooooooone. Where is everyone?
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I AM HERE ICHI I WILL SAVE YOU!
so now what?
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We kill scum!
For me at least, this game is somewhat on hold until GreyICE shows up. I was considering voting him earlier, but Seprix did...and it's somewhat of a toss up for me which one of them is scummier.
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Sounds good.
I guess I'm ok with a greyICE lynch over Seprix right now.
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I think we should have the Page claim.
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And let's do a reread.
GreyICE:
Starts out voting for LA. He argues against Jimmmmm's townslip. Then pushes for an Awaclus lynch. LA says: "I kind of want to be suspicious of Grey, but I can't find a good reason for it." There's that calling thing. LA calls a vote on Grey "easy and suspicious".
Witherweaver:
Starts the day voting for LA. One of the first to vote for LA on D2. Chooses to call on D2, which turned out to be a bad choice. Switches his vote on LA back and forth.
Hydrad:
LA has him among his 2 "most suspicious" on D1, along with Awaclus. First on the LA wagon.
Ichi:
LA suspects him for asking if he should claim. Pushed hard by LA the start of D2. Hammers LA.
Seprix:
Joins in with LA's suspicion on Ichi. LA suspects him on D2, and votes for him.
pit:
LA switches his vote to pit on D2, after someone announced he was at L-1.
Okay, that was just a rough reread. Still, it gave me some feelings: Grey actually looks rather townie. The pit thing is intriguing. If pit was scum, and scum had that Swamg Hag claim going for them, they would be very hesitant to just lynch him. I don't particularly like WW here. Ichi is a bit townish for being pushed by LA, but that could be a bus. This is my lynch preference for now:
Hydrad > WW > Ichi > Seprix > Grey > pit
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Oops, I switched around Ichi and Seprix. Actually, it's like this:
Hydrad > WW > Seprix > Ichi > Grey > pit
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I'm also not sold on Grey doing what he did if he knew that LA was scum.
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I was arguing for lynching LA all game, from fairly early Day 1. I'm not sure that really fits into partner scenario.
I'm not convinced of the Grey thing; I just found it suspicious that he was "assuming" LA was town, in that it feels like a bit of s constructed "townslip"
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Oops, I switched around Ichi and Seprix. Actually, it's like this:
Hydrad > WW > Seprix > Ichi > Grey > pit
Wait, so Hydrad and LA think each other is scummy, and vote for each other. How is that scummy at all? LA is scum, and he was trying to get town lynched, right? Remember, LA is new to Forum Mafia. I know I kind of screw myself for arguing this, but I just find it a bit odd that Hydrad is ahead of like, well, me for example.
Care to elaborate?
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I was arguing for lynching LA all game, from fairly early Day 1. I'm not sure that really fits into partner scenario.
I'm not convinced of the Grey thing; I just found it suspicious that he was "assuming" LA was town, in that it feels like a bit of s constructed "townslip"
I admit I liked LA. Unfortunate for me. And I kind of buddied with Gray too, but man, he's pretty convincing. I think he could swindle me out of my money or something. He's certainly capable of playing a scum game. I like an Ice lynch now, and I could see a scum team of Gray/Pit or something like that. SS died, and well, it was wrong. Enough evidence was shown to support a Gray lynch or an SS lynch. Lynching Gray HAS to be the right call here.
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Oops, I switched around Ichi and Seprix. Actually, it's like this:
Hydrad > WW > Seprix > Ichi > Grey > pit
Wait, so Hydrad and LA think each other is scummy, and vote for each other. How is that scummy at all? LA is scum, and he was trying to get town lynched, right? Remember, LA is new to Forum Mafia. I know I kind of screw myself for arguing this, but I just find it a bit odd that Hydrad is ahead of like, well, me for example.
Care to elaborate?
I don't think LA ever voted for Hydrad. Plus, LA didn't play like total newb-like. He played mafia before, he's perfectly capable of suspecting his partner. And Hydrad just kinda "parked" his vote on LA back when he didn't think he would be lynched.
Or that's the feeling I got. I only skimmed, and I completely lost touch of this game, so I might be off.
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We all kind of are; that's interesting about Hydrad though.
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Prod: GreyICE
Prod: Pitt
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Prod: GreyICE
Prod: Pitt
Pit is still subject to replacement, huh? Couldn't someone who played in here before take over?
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Mm. Unless they were both town, couldn't that get a bit odd though?
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Or you could see my vote on LA as me being pretty confident that LA was scum. I think I was even saying day 1 that if he wasn't a new player I would be voting him day 1.
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I think that scumpartners are more likely to remember that they had a scumread on LA than town players. I don't like WW and Hydrad both pointing that out.
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I think that scumpartners are more likely to remember that they had a scumread on LA than town players. I don't like WW and Hydrad both pointing that out.
But unlikely to approach it with such eagerness. I think if you go reread me specifically you'll see that I'm not LA's partner.
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Where is GreyICE?
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Maybe he forgot this game exsited.
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Liopoil is subbing in for Pit. Thanks, Liopoil!
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Hi guys! If anything urgent is happening, let me know, otherwise I will start way back at day 1.
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Yes, there is urgent:
1) Are you scum?
2) You should have some special cards, like Swamp Hag, and uh.. well, I guess we need to think about whether or not you should say if it was used last night. Okay, maybe you have to go read.
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1) Are you scum?
2) You should have some special cards, like Swamp Hag, and uh.. well, I guess we need to think about whether or not you should say if it was used last night. Okay, maybe you have to go read.
1) Nope!
2) Maaaayyyyybe.
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No, I did not read every single post, but I skimmed everything and got the general gist.
Day 1: Lots of waffling around by everybody, almost nobody with strong reads. Then deadline came so we lynched Awaclus, okay.
Day 2: I really agree with almost everything Ichi says here. There's some stuff with Dominion cards going on too and extra days, maybe I should read my QTs. Oh hey, I claimed:
Does Pit want to claim?
I think i have to claim at this point: I'm a VT, but i got Swamp Hag.
If you don't believe me, you can still lynch me tomorrow, without losing much (slightly less information for the lynch today compared to the one that would happen tomorrow + me possibly being a scum PR with a night activated power), while gaining the no-kill / hated for scum.
Interesting.
Then LA literally claimed scum so we lynched him. Also woah, Silverspawn has been buddying me so hard the whole game, suspicious, since I'm a newbie. Oh wait he got NKed and flipped town, fine. Seprix has also been all over the place without pushing anything too hard, which in general I think is a scummy thing.
Day 3: Hey that's now. Not much has happened. Okay, now I'll figure out role stuff.
So, right now I have a slight townread on Ichimaru Gin, slight scumread on Seprix. But really, time to figure out the role madness.
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2) You should have some special cards, like Swamp Hag, and uh.. well, I guess we need to think about whether or not you should say if it was used last night. Okay, maybe you have to go read.
I don't see any reason for me not to say this. If I did use it, we should be checking everyone for sure. If I didn't use it, oh well. I won't claim it yet just to give anyone a chance to tell me not to. I can confirm that I do/did have the Swamp Hag.
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Well obviously, you'd have a real hard time convincing everyone that you subbed into lying!town.
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Well obviously, you'd have a real hard time convincing everyone that you subbed into lying!town.
Of course, but it can't hurt just to verify that I'm on the same page as pit was. People have made mistakes, you know.
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Well, if Grey doesn't show up soon, I have some stuff to claim.
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Also, could we get a vote count for today. I don't know how many people are alive!
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Hi lio! Man, it's been a while since I've been in a game with you... I feel like the last one was Dice Mafia.
Anyway, does anyone besides me have reads?
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Hi lio! Man, it's been a while since I've been in a game with you... I feel like the last one was Dice Mafia.
Anyway, does anyone besides me have reads?
The last one was Dice Mafia. That was the most recent non-Blitz non-Bastard game I've played.
Also, could we get a vote count for today. I don't know how many people are alive!
Pretty sure 7 people are alive.
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Not Voting: GreyICE, Pit, faust, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, Seprix
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Hydrad reread.
He starts out voting for Library because he's new. The fact that he didn't pick Grey is minimally scummy. He says he'll treat Jimmmmm as an IC. He sheeps silver's vote on WW, and then swithces to silver. He has LA in his won't lynch list due to policy. Starts D2 saying he wants to look at LA and Seprix, and continues to vote LA. Has town reads on WW and Ichi. He says LA has felt pretty scummy to him D1 (something he never stated D1).
Eh. So Hydrad's treatment of LA could easily be a bus. He calls him scummy basically without any reason at all, and always keeps a second choice. And if Hydrad is scum, I think chances are the second scum is WW or Ichi.
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Vote: Hydrad to get things started.
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Hydrad reread.
He starts out voting for Library because he's new. The fact that he didn't pick Grey is minimally scummy. He says he'll treat Jimmmmm as an IC. He sheeps silver's vote on WW, and then swithces to silver. He has LA in his won't lynch list due to policy. Starts D2 saying he wants to look at LA and Seprix, and continues to vote LA. Has town reads on WW and Ichi. He says LA has felt pretty scummy to him D1 (something he never stated D1).
Eh. So Hydrad's treatment of LA could easily be a bus. He calls him scummy basically without any reason at all, and always keeps a second choice. And if Hydrad is scum, I think chances are the second scum is WW or Ichi.
I like the case on Hydrad, the thing with specifically pointing out (multiple times) of not lynching LA because of policy is suspicious. I don't really see Ichi. I'm obviously town.
Vote: Hydrad
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Hydrad reread.
He starts out voting for Library because he's new. The fact that he didn't pick Grey is minimally scummy. He says he'll treat Jimmmmm as an IC. He sheeps silver's vote on WW, and then swithces to silver. He has LA in his won't lynch list due to policy. Starts D2 saying he wants to look at LA and Seprix, and continues to vote LA. Has town reads on WW and Ichi. He says LA has felt pretty scummy to him D1 (something he never stated D1).
Eh. So Hydrad's treatment of LA could easily be a bus. He calls him scummy basically without any reason at all, and always keeps a second choice. And if Hydrad is scum, I think chances are the second scum is WW or Ichi.
I like the case on Hydrad, the thing with specifically pointing out (multiple times) of not lynching LA because of policy is suspicious. I don't really see Ichi. I'm obviously town.
Vote: Hydrad
Well, I think of you and Ichi as likely partners mostly due to PoE. I don't quite see Hydrad suspecting both his teammates D2, so that eliminates Seprix. And Grey and pit/lio are likely town.
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Ok. Time to claim.
I received the Storyteller last night (a power that we picked in our qt). It allowed me to pick any player, and if they were town, they would become loved. I picked GreyICE.
So. We need 4 votes on GreyICE, and no more than four! And then, he will either flip scum or become an IC. Unless there is some other mechanic that intereferes with it, which I think is pretty unlikely.
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Also. I will request a prod on GreyICE
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Is there any reason not to suspect faust? I should probably reread. iirc he was on the LA wagon.
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I confirm that power.
Interesting. What if Ichi is scum? Then he either tells the truth or wants to bring in another mislynch, at the cost of his death. Being able to take down one of the towniest players to reach LyLo is not the worst thing ever. If we lynch Ichi, and he flips town, we enter tomorrow with 2/5 scum, and it would take 4 to lynch town!Grey. So if we pick one townie correctly, we could still confirm Grey... or we hope to catch scum and then Grey can't die the following Day.
How do you guys stand on testing Grey? I think he's rather townie, so I would prefer not to. Ichi, why do you think we need to test?
Anyway, if we do decide to test, I think the best strategy is for Grey to pick 4 players to vote for him.
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Is there any reason not to suspect faust? I should probably reread. iirc he was on the LA wagon.
There's a reason not to suspect me: I'm town.
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Basically, I think we should test Grey if and only if we would lynch him. I don't consider that, so I don't want to test.
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Basically, I think we should test Grey if and only if we would lynch him. I don't consider that, so I don't want to test.
Why? That makes no sense at all.
Unless there's a danger of scum quicklynching him and that costing us the game, this is absolutely what we are going to do. Yeah, I'm calling a faust/GreyICE for the rest of the scumteam. You're not making any sense, and you saying you're town doesn't convince me either.
vote: GreyICE
3 more votes please. No more. No less.
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I confirm that power.
Interesting. What if Ichi is scum? Then he either tells the truth or wants to bring in another mislynch, at the cost of his death. Being able to take down one of the towniest players to reach LyLo is not the worst thing ever. If we lynch Ichi, and he flips town, we enter tomorrow with 2/5 scum, and it would take 4 to lynch town!Grey. So if we pick one townie correctly, we could still confirm Grey... or we hope to catch scum and then Grey can't die the following Day.
How do you guys stand on testing Grey? I think he's rather townie, so I would prefer not to. Ichi, why do you think we need to test?
Anyway, if we do decide to test, I think the best strategy is for Grey to pick 4 players to vote for him.
I missed this. I would be fine with that plan, except you're the one to suggest it. If scum as some way of interfering with this, you just gave scum Grey a way to save himself. Let's pick the players who will vote for him randomly. I'll even unvote for now.
But seriously, how is Grey one of the towniest players? I don't even care. After this, he'll be an IC--or dead scum.
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I don't Faust's argument. I don't see Grey as being any more likely town than Ichi is, and as Grey is a complete unknown, this is a good thing.
What's the advantage of having Grey pick the people to vote for him?
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Also, while I am not especially trusting of Hyrad, your choice to pursue a wagon on him while ignoring my plan which has basically no risk--and is the entire point of the PR we picked...it's crazy.
We only get one more mislynch. You're really going to waste it (probably) on Hydrad and then make confirming Grey completely useless because we'll be at 3 town, 2 scum tomorrow?
Your numbers are completely off. We are at 5/2 today. We mislynch Hydrad today (which I think there's a good chance of) + scum NK puts us at 3/2 tomorrow. Surprise! That's going to make confirming Grey incredibly dangerous. Now is the only time to confirm Grey.
PPE: 1
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That should say, "I don't buy Faust's argument."
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And we've decided Page can't "save their kill", right? So we don't have to worry about scum having an extra kill tonight to make today mislynch and lose?
But before proceeding with Ichi's plan, we need to consider the possibility of Swamp Hag. It makes scum Hated if they killed last night?
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Did lio tell us anything about it? I mean...I guess there could still be WIFOM for scum that he hasn't used the Swamp Hag yet. That seems pretty thin though.
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Vote: greyice
I'm not fully sure where the votes are at though!
I think 2 more? But don't trust this 100% yet
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I think you're the only vote on Grey right now, since I unvoted.
Do you have any defense to the accusations made against you?
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I think you're the only vote on Grey right now, since I unvoted.
Do you have any defense to the accusations made against you?
Not really. I guess I could see how I could be bussing and its hard to prove that my gut read was correct and I stuck with it.
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You're admitting you bussed LA?
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Also. Swamp Hag backfiring cause scum no-killed and making a random town hated is the only thing that I'm aware of which could interfere with testing Grey. I guess lio being silent on when/if he used it might actually be the best course, assuming we can trust him.
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You're admitting you bussed LA?
No but I can see how faust came to that conclusion. I'm not sure how I can go to my posts and point at the votes and say its not bussing its a real vote! as you guys wouldn't be able to tell the difference
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Hmm. Well, regardless, I think it makes sense to test Grey today.
I wonder, can the Swamp Hag's random hated effect proc on themself?
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I think that we should test Grey today, in particular because of the card that my QT chose (WW and GreyICE can confirm). I don't see a reason for us to say exactly what that card does though.
Oh, so we think scum did not kill last night? In that case, if I used the Swamp hag it is wasted, so whether I did or not I should keep quiet to leave scum in the dark. So I do not think I will say whether I still have it or not, if the rest of the town is alright with that.
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Oh and Vote: GreyICE, we need exactly two more votes.
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We can't be certain, though. Scum could have targetted Silverspawn with Page. Or, Page could be scum and they double-targetted Silverspawn to make it look like they didn't shoot.
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We can't be certain, though. Scum could have targetted Silverspawn with Page. Or, Page could be scum and they double-targetted Silverspawn to make it look like they didn't shoot.
Oh. I didn't even think of the second one. Yeah, that's one thing that could screw this up. Even then though, the odds of Grey being the one to be hated are pretty low. What, like 16%?
I wonder which is processed first, the NK (or vig) or the Swamp Hag? Like, if scum did a no-kill and used the Page instead and Swamp Hag was used, would silver be eligible to be hated?
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I'm not sure Swamp Hag works as you seem to be implying it works. Then again, it was a long time ago.
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I'm not sure Swamp Hag works as you seem to be implying it works. Then again, it was a long time ago.
Ok. In our qt. It says (paraphrased).
Swamp hag gets to choose to use their power once during the night. If scum NK's during that night, a random scum becomes hated. However, if scum doesn't NK that night, than it's a random town that becomes hated instead.
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Seprix is still in this game. I would like to hear more from him. I will put the fourth vote on Grey, since it seems we're just doing this the regular way.
After that, NO ONE ELSE VOTE until we get an official vote count or Grey dies because he is scum.
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Ichi, if you do place a vote, at least immediately unvote afterwards.
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Seprix is still in this game. I would like to hear more from him. I will put the fourth vote on Grey, since it seems we're just doing this the regular way.
After that, NO ONE ELSE VOTE until we get an official vote count or Grey dies because he is scum.
Besides Gray!scum, I have no definite thoughts. You can ask away though, I don't want to do nothing.
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Seprix is still in this game. I would like to hear more from him. I will put the fourth vote on Grey, since it seems we're just doing this the regular way.
After that, NO ONE ELSE VOTE until we get an official vote count or Grey dies because he is scum.
Besides Gray!scum, I have no definite thoughts. You can ask away though, I don't want to do nothing.
Why would Grey be scum?
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So here's a list of everything that can go wrong with testing Grey.
- Ichi may be scum and setting Grey up for a mislynch. Normally, this wouldn't win the game for scum, since it only brings us down to 5 players. But this is RMM, who knows what could happen? Maybe the last, non-Ichi scum is loved and cannot get killed at 3-player-LyLo. Or anything. WE DON'T KNOW.
- Okay, say Ichi is town. Even then there is a nonzero chance that Grey is hated and will die anyway, setting Ichi up for a mislynch and immediately losing us the game. That's not even taking into account that scum may have roles of their own to interfere. Did it ever occur to anyone that they may have a Roleblocker or something like that? Why is it certain that Ichi's action was successful? You're all acting as though the whole scum team consists of Vanilla Goons. That's a very dangerous assumption.
And all that for what? Confirming a player who's very likely town anyway. Do you really think this is worth the risk? Okay, maybe you think that Grey is scum, then things are different. But then at least tell me WHY you think that, because he reads very townie to me.
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Seprix is still in this game. I would like to hear more from him. I will put the fourth vote on Grey, since it seems we're just doing this the regular way.
After that, NO ONE ELSE VOTE until we get an official vote count or Grey dies because he is scum.
Besides Gray!scum, I have no definite thoughts. You can ask away though, I don't want to do nothing.
Oh, and you can reread instead of lazily maintaining a single read if you want to do something.
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Mm. It's late. Honestly, some of faust's arguments are convincing. I aknowledge the risks, but I mean, Grey hasn't even posted once today. Is he going to show up at all?
Things will be different when Grey is around to respond and argue for himself. Maybe we should hold off until then for doing this. At this point, while I don't agree with everything faust says, I'm having trouble seeing him as scum. It seems like he's addressing this in a pretty diplomatic manner--looking at multiple possibilities. I'll be back tomorrow, but like I said earlier, I want to hear from Grey.
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Grey posted an all or nothing clause with him vs SS. I'm simply holding him to his word.
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Grey not posting is an issue.
<b>Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?</b>
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Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?
Scumslip etc.
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Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?
Scumslip etc.
I guess typing is faster than when I just click the buttons.
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Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?
Scumslip etc.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST PROD HIM IN YOUR SCUM QT OMGURD
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So here's a list of everything that can go wrong with testing Grey.
- Ichi may be scum and setting Grey up for a mislynch. Normally, this wouldn't win the game for scum, since it only brings us down to 5 players. But this is RMM, who knows what could happen? Maybe the last, non-Ichi scum is loved and cannot get killed at 3-player-LyLo. Or anything. WE DON'T KNOW.
- Okay, say Ichi is town. Even then there is a nonzero chance that Grey is hated and will die anyway, setting Ichi up for a mislynch and immediately losing us the game. That's not even taking into account that scum may have roles of their own to interfere. Did it ever occur to anyone that they may have a Roleblocker or something like that? Why is it certain that Ichi's action was successful? You're all acting as though the whole scum team consists of Vanilla Goons. That's a very dangerous assumption.
And all that for what? Confirming a player who's very likely town anyway. Do you really think this is worth the risk? Okay, maybe you think that Grey is scum, then things are different. But then at least tell me WHY you think that, because he reads very townie to me.
- If Ichi is scum trying to get grey mislynched, it is not a problem, for reasons which WW can confirm.
- Okay, this is fair. It feels sort of unlikely though.
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Hmm I think if IG is town then the risk is good enough to try hitting greyICE
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Hmm I think if IG is town then the risk is good enough to try hitting greyICE
I am town.
I think the odds that
1. Swamp Hag was used and backfired, hitting town because scum no-killed and got Page and possibly Swamp Hag as well
2. Grey being town and, the 1/7 1/6? chance of him becoming hated
are sufficiently low to make the benefits of this far outweigh the risks.
Can we get one more vote on him please?
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Why, isn't he already at L?
Request: Vote count
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Or L-1, or whatever amount we would think would get scum!Grey lynched.
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He has only 2 votes on him right now: Hydrad and liopoil. We need a total of 4.
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
What do you mean "real scum". Do you know that Grey isn't scum?
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Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?
Scumslip etc.
He has already been prodded.
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Yeah...I don't know. I don't terribly agree with faust, but I do trust him I think. I'm not sure how I feel about lio now.
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
Uh. This is exactly the problem. If you don't think Grey is scum, then it makes little sense to vote for him. And apparently you don't.
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That post sure was scummy. Maybe I should examine my town read there a little closer.
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
What do you mean "real scum". Do you know that Grey isn't scum?
No, I don't know but it seems pretty likely that he's town. Re:Faust, confirmed town is way way better than townread!town. Not sure what I said that you thought was scummy.
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
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Yeah...I don't know. I don't terribly agree with faust, but I do trust him I think. I'm not sure how I feel about lio now.
I think if Grey is scum Faust looks bad here; I think this is exactly the kind of argument he'd make as Grey's partner. Of course, he'd likely do it as town as well.
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
I don't have any strong belief that Grey is town. Creating an IC is good.
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
What do you mean "real scum". Do you know that Grey isn't scum?
No, I don't know but it seems pretty likely that he's town. Re:Faust, confirmed town is way way better than townread!town. Not sure what I said that you thought was scummy.
Why is it pretty likely?
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The only people voting for GreyICE currently are Hydrad and I. It normally takes 4 to lynch. If one more person votes, then ichi can vote and unvote in the same post to finish the test, and we can all vote for real scum. So vote for GreyICE, WW!
PPE: ninja'd
Hey. I'm voting for Gray too! Don't lie in court!
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If it only takes 4 kills to lynch Ice, and Lio is prodding WW to vote...
Oh my god.
unvote
This looks terrible for Lio, right?
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Wow, is scum team really Library/Lio/Ichi?
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Wow, is scum team really Library/Lio/Ichi?
Where does that come from?
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
I don't have any strong belief that Grey is town. Creating an IC is good.
Why is creating an IC now good, when we can create this IC any time we want to?
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Wow, is scum team really Library/Lio/Ichi?
Where does that come from?
No, you're right. It can't be Ichi.
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
I don't have any strong belief that Grey is town. Creating an IC is good.
Why is creating an IC now good, when we can create this IC any time we want to?
I don't follow.
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Oh, he's Loved for the rest of the game if he's town, not just today?
Well, it would still be better now because we'd have more information now, right? Why is it better to do it later?
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Oh, he's Loved for the rest of the game if he's town, not just today?
Well, it would still be better now because we'd have more information now, right? Why is it better to do it later?
The information isn't particularly relevant tough if he's town. It's better to do it later because if he's town, scum might kill him, which also confirms that he's town and we never have to do a risky testing thing.
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Oh, he's Loved for the rest of the game if he's town, not just today?
Well, it would still be better now because we'd have more information now, right? Why is it better to do it later?
The information isn't particularly relevant tough if he's town. It's better to do it later because if he's town, scum might kill him, which also confirms that he's town and we never have to do a risky testing thing.
Well it is relevant, because if he's town it reduces the lynch pool and makes PoE stronger. Plus, if he's scum, we've lynched scum. I can understand not seeing it too useful if you have a strong town read on him, but for me he's a pretty big unknown.
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Lio, I had forgotten what our QT thing did, but just went back and read it. Is there an advantage to not claiming it?
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Err... guys. The OP says days last 9 days. That would mean we have a little under 2 days left. What do we do? Please start posting reads already instead of going on and on about Grey. Everyone but me is really scummy.
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
I don't have any strong belief that Grey is town. Creating an IC is good.
Why is creating an IC now good, when we can create this IC any time we want to?
Uh no. How safe is it to put Grey (your biggest townread) to L-1 tomorrow if there's only 3 town and 2 scum? Not safe at all. Unless we know who both of the scum are and make them vote first, confirming Grey tomorrow is super dangerous.
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Yeah...I don't know. I don't terribly agree with faust, but I do trust him I think. I'm not sure how I feel about lio now.
I think if Grey is scum Faust looks bad here; I think this is exactly the kind of argument he'd make as Grey's partner. Of course, he'd likely do it as town as well.
Yeah, that's about my thought process as well. I'm beginning to feel a little more wary of how faust is trying to keep us from testing Grey. There's no way it's safe to do it tomorrow unless we lynch scum today. It's still safer and more helpful to do it now.
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Could we please have a vote count.
I don't think there's been a single one all day.
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Rereading WW, because he's next on my list.
His first serious vote goes to LA. Here's a post that is somewhat weird, and I don't think comes from LA's partner:
I like it
Vote: Awaclus
This could also say Vote: LibraryAdventurer, but it doesn't.
Then lots of one-liners. There's a small wagon on him, and he OMGUSes Seprix a bit. Calls LA scummy, but doesn't want to lynch him because he's new. Then suddenly, he wants to lynch LA but the day is too short. Votes pit instead, and thinks Awaclus is townie after his claim. I don't love his treatment of Awaclus, but oh well.
On D2, he still finds LA scummy, but votes silver. Then goes on voting LA. Then wastes a strong town power by calling CotR. Like, I still think this is quiet bad. He switches his vote to pit when that wagon grows. Tries to direct the Page kill to pit. Switches back to LA.
Yeah, ultimately I don't know. His treatment of LA seems a bit too flip-floppy to be bussing, but then there are some things that raise my alarm bells. I think I like Hydrad better for today.
PPE: 3
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Okay, can anyone, slowly and thoroughly, explain to me why exactly it is good to test Grey if you think he's town? Because I don't get it at all.
I don't have any strong belief that Grey is town. Creating an IC is good.
Why is creating an IC now good, when we can create this IC any time we want to?
Uh no. How safe is it to put Grey (your biggest townread) to L-1 tomorrow if there's only 3 town and 2 scum? Not safe at all. Unless we know who both of the scum are and make them vote first, confirming Grey tomorrow is super dangerous.
Okay, well, I'm trying to lynch scum here obviously, and I believe the chances that we hit scum are pretty good if people would actually start putting in work.
I think I can just say it: I believe Grey is the Page. If so, we absolutely don't want him lynched today so that he can use his pseudocop tonight.
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Hmm, I'm not sure about this. At any rate, even if Grey is the page, he could still be scum. Also, it's not like he can do us any good if he's not around.
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Hmm, I'm not sure about this. At any rate, even if Grey is the page, he could still be scum. Also, it's not like he can do us any good if he's not around.
But if I remember correctly, even if he's scum, he has to create that neighborhood, right?
...okay, I checked. The description does not actually have a "must", but all the other options do, which makes me suppose this also holds true for this one. Which means if Grey isn't around, the player in question would be picked randomly.
<b>Xerxes, is the N3 option for Page obligatory?</b>
<b>Also, what happens if Grey doesn't respond to the prod? Do we get anothr replacement?</b>
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*sigh* You know, typing <> is just so much easier than [] on a German keyboard.
Xerxes, is the N3 option for Page obligatory?
Also, what happens if Grey doesn't respond to the prod? Do we get anothr replacement?
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I'm going to try to reread this weekend. Town read on Faust is getting stronger.
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I'm liking faust here also. At the moment though I still think its worth it to try the greyICE thing even though faust is against it.
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I'm liking faust here also. At the moment though I still think its worth it to try the greyICE thing even though faust is against it.
Do you have a scum read on Grey?
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I'm liking faust here also. At the moment though I still think its worth it to try the greyICE thing even though faust is against it.
Do you have a scum read on Grey?
yup
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The one thing that is making me question ICE is that he was going for SS sooo hard. Why NK him? maybe he thought town was not going to lynch SS so decided to kill him? Maybe he thought he was a PR? Confusion's sake? Or town having a bad read.
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The one thing that is making me question ICE is that he was going for SS sooo hard. Why NK him? maybe he thought town was not going to lynch SS so decided to kill him? Maybe he thought he was a PR? Confusion's sake? Or town having a bad read.
Ah if it wasn't clear I'm meaning questioning my scum read on him.
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So. Are we ever going to get an official vote count?
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Lio, I had forgotten what our QT thing did, but just went back and read it. Is there an advantage to not claiming it?
Yes, claiming it would deter scum from making a mistake.
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If it only takes 4 kills to lynch Ice, and Lio is prodding WW to vote...
Oh my god.
unvote
This looks terrible for Lio, right?
I... what? I'm so confused, what the heck are you even trying to say. Do you have any clue what is going on?
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Wow, is scum team really Library/Lio/Ichi?
Oh, I see. Yeah, you caught us, gg.
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If it only takes 4 kills to lynch Ice, and Lio is prodding WW to vote...
Oh my god.
unvote
This looks terrible for Lio, right?
I... what? I'm so confused, what the heck are you even trying to say. Do you have any clue what is going on?
I think I may have completely misread everything.
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Lio, I had forgotten what our QT thing did, but just went back and read it. Is there an advantage to not claiming it?
Yes, claiming it would deter scum from making a mistake.
Don't you think everyone kind of needs to know it, though?
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Lio, I had forgotten what our QT thing did, but just went back and read it. Is there an advantage to not claiming it?
Yes, claiming it would deter scum from making a mistake.
Don't you think everyone kind of needs to know it, though?
does it help town if we know? like can we make it stronger somehow?
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Lio, I had forgotten what our QT thing did, but just went back and read it. Is there an advantage to not claiming it?
Yes, claiming it would deter scum from making a mistake.
Don't you think everyone kind of needs to know it, though?
Nope. It'll be obvious enough, and we can tell them when it matters.
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The one thing that is making me question ICE is that he was going for SS sooo hard. Why NK him? maybe he thought town was not going to lynch SS so decided to kill him? Maybe he thought he was a PR? Confusion's sake? Or town having a bad read.
This line of thought makes little sense considering that it's most likely that the Page shot silver.
Also, can you explain why you have a scumread on Grey?
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Instead of all the mystery talk, could you just start posting some reads? This is so frustrating.
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Adventures! :D
Vote: GreyICE
OH MY GAWD! YOU SUCK
Nah, you town.
Vote: Seprix
No voting? Scum claim already. Plus, if we lynch Seprix day 1, he can stream more. Scum lynch, more streaming? Win? Win.
Come on friends.
Seeing as we may as well vote randomly on day 1, I'll say Vote: Faust. I heard he summons demons.
In any case, I don't case about streaming. I much rather play than watch someone else play.
Interesting. You don't believe that you can learn people's alignments on day 1? You believe that all voting is random?
Do tell me more.
Vote: LibraryAdventurer
A little in person, four years on MafiaScum. Probably 40-50 games of forum mafia, all told. Maybe higher.
Scum on day 1 is a very easy thing. Witness, I shall demonstrate. I'm already voting for some.
Obv., scum team is Seprix, Library, GreyICE.
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I had assumed the game was being put on hold for a few days. (I guess it did unofficially.) I'm not much good at reading people (especially when I can't see those people), so I have a hard time deciding who I think is mafia. I guess I'm most suspicious of Awaclus (BTW, how do you pronounce that?) and Hydrad (because of this post). (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg480714#msg480714) But in both cases, the evidence seems pretty weak.
Small point in favor of scum!Hydrad, as Awaclus was town.
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I think this wagon on me is actually a good development because it will hopefully shift some focus to me and allow me greater opportunity to engage people. My playstyle (at least in the past) often heavily relies on at least some people having scumreads on me.
Then aren't you happy I'm voting for you? :) I'm helping you get some good development and opportunity to engage me!
This doesn't make sense to me anyways.
You acknowledge your bad play, and then saying a bunch of stuff that really hurts my eyes and my head, and it doesn't change the accusations against you at all.
I find every lynch you've pushed today exceedingly uncompelling. You've come out with all this stuff about how "WW's play has been terrible" or something. I don't even know where it's coming from. I don't remember why Awaclus was supposed to be scummy either.
Please. Unless you think I'm partner's with Awaclus and/or WW and am being super obvious about not joining their wagons, your accusations make little sense.
Well, you know what? I haven't really been doing my own thinking besides with WW. Ice has been doing that for me, sadly. He said Awaclus was bad, I went for it because man, it looked convincing. Self voting is bad, I guess. WW was joking scum, and from my experience, that's a bad thing. I got in trouble for it, Joseph did, etc.. So now that I bring it up, everyone's cool with it, and that really freaking pisses me off. Nothing is consistent.
Now I'm voting for you because Ice presented a good argument. Ugh, I have a really good case against me too. I'm a mindless drone.
These arguments make Seprex seem a lot more suspicious than IG to me. Vote: Seprix
Point in favor of town!Seprix I think. Not a big reason for Library to go for a partner here.
(I fixed the quote problem of Library's post.)
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I really don't like IG asking "should I claim?" and then not claiming when he's probably either vanilla town or mafia, but then right now I'm suspicious of pretty much everyone (except perhaps Jimmmm and maybe Grey).
I think it'd be very bad to have a no-lynch. We'd get a lot more information by lynching someone, hopefully mafia obviously, but it'd be worse to have a no-lynch than lynch a townie because then we get the information of finding out their alignment and we have a lot more to go on the next day.
I was happy with my vote on Seprix, but it doesn't look like that's happening. If I'm figuring correctly, IG, Pit, and Awaclus each have 3 votes and no one has more than that. So which of them am I most suspicious of? Tough choice, but I'll go with Vote: IG
There should be info here, let's see.
Damn, vote counts are rare this game. This was close to deadline (within a few hours). Grey was on Ichi, Awaclus had just switched from Ichi to Pit.. leading wagon was on Awaclus, secondary was on Pit. I think Library doesn't go for Awaclus because he didn't want to scummily jump on a mislynch. So instead, hm. fairly new player in Library (was he scum before?) .. my guess is that this makes Ichi look less of a partner and Pit/Lio (as the leading nonAwaclus agon that Library chose not to join) more like a partner.
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Okay... So if Awaclus is not scum... Then what?
Scummy post-hammer post from Seprix.
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Actually, the whole back and forth between Ichi and Library regarding Ichi's claiming thing makes me fairly confident that Ichi is not a partner of Library. Just read the following dozen or so posts after Library votes for Ichi.
Almost certainly not lynching today: Faust, Ichi.
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Thumbs up for rereading!
Yeah, that's a good point on Ichi. Also scum!Ichi would be less likely to make the claim he made, I think. He is probably a bad lynching choice.
I think I'm gonna reread pit/lio next. That shouldn't take too long.
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We should most certainly lynch today. If someone posts a bolded Call in thread I'm giving them beaucoup town points.
By the by, I agree with you Hydrad, that was a great choice of kill.
Vote:Hydrad
This is where the whole Coin of the Realm thing started. I agree that it wasn't good to call, but I have a hard time seeing scum push for it as hard as Grey did. It sounds more like misguided town. (Town tends to argue more stubbornly for their points than scum does; e.g., Ash.)
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Yeah, don't like this at all.
vote: Library
I'm pretty sure he's scum now.
Another scummy Seprix post, considering at this point Library had already been lynched. (Ichi hammered a few posts prior.)
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<enjoys his steak and lobster in the meantime>
So... now that I've had my meal, I'll confess I only claimed mafia for the food. I'm really town.
Vote: Library
We can still NoLynch later, there is no reason to keep a claimed scum player alive.
Hey, Pitt votes for lynched!Library too~
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So about pit:
He calls Jimmmmm's slip null. Hrm. I think scum is a bit more likely to acknowledge it, since they know it's genuine. Slight slight town. Unvotes when Awaclus is at L-1, making it appear as though he unvoted Awaclus, when in reality he wasn't voting for him. oping for the derphammer? This is a bit scummy actually. His other D1 votes go to Seprix and Awaclus. Then gets to L-1 and claims Swamp Hag. The fact that there was only one kill tonight makes it slightly more likely that he was actually town. That's it for pit.
lio, I think lio felt a bit scummy so far. Then again, wouldn't scum subbing in make more if an effort? And there was some reason why I didn't think lio was scum... let me check.
Oh yeah there's the whole LA supposedly quickhammering him when he had a claim lined up. I just fail to see a reason for scum to do that to their partner. So I guess this is significant, and a good reason not to lynch lio today.
PPE: 3
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Yay, so we didn't lynch the guy with the obvious fakeclaim, and instead lynched town. Faust makes a nice long speech about how it sucks to win as scum that way, then votes No Lynch - in the situation that if page is scum, we have now lost.
Vote: Silverspawn
This is what was suspect to me. Library has not flipped; why is Grey making a point of stating he is factually town? My impression of Grey is that he chooses his words deliberately. This seems a bit like a constructed reaction to Library getting lynched. (Like, trying to construct a townslip by "assuming" Library is town.)
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So about pit:
He calls Jimmmmm's slip null. Hrm. I think scum is a bit more likely to acknowledge it, since they know it's genuine. Slight slight town. Unvotes when Awaclus is at L-1, making it appear as though he unvoted Awaclus, when in reality he wasn't voting for him. oping for the derphammer? This is a bit scummy actually. His other D1 votes go to Seprix and Awaclus. Then gets to L-1 and claims Swamp Hag. The fact that there was only one kill tonight makes it slightly more likely that he was actually town. That's it for pit.
lio, I think lio felt a bit scummy so far. Then again, wouldn't scum subbing in make more if an effort? And there was some reason why I didn't think lio was scum... let me check.
Oh yeah there's the whole LA supposedly quickhammering him when he had a claim lined up. I just fail to see a reason for scum to do that to their partner. So I guess this is significant, and a good reason not to lynch lio today.
PPE: 3
Wait, what was the quickhammering thing?
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Adventures! :D
Vote: GreyICE
OH MY GAWD! YOU SUCK
Nah, you town.
Vote: Seprix
No voting? Scum claim already. Plus, if we lynch Seprix day 1, he can stream more. Scum lynch, more streaming? Win? Win.
Come on friends.
Seeing as we may as well vote randomly on day 1, I'll say Vote: Faust. I heard he summons demons.
In any case, I don't case about streaming. I much rather play than watch someone else play.
Interesting. You don't believe that you can learn people's alignments on day 1? You believe that all voting is random?
Do tell me more.
Vote: LibraryAdventurer
A little in person, four years on MafiaScum. Probably 40-50 games of forum mafia, all told. Maybe higher.
Scum on day 1 is a very easy thing. Witness, I shall demonstrate. I'm already voting for some.
Obv., scum team is Seprix, Library, GreyICE.
Yeah, you're wrong. Ice!scum is a given, though.
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I can see the logic of the above post though, but D1 votes really mean nothing, and you're taking Ice's posts out of context. He was 'doing reads', so he had to pretend based off of what I was saying and LA was saying.
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Another town point for Faust: the entire reaction to Calling the Coin an arguing for No Lynch. It feels way more like genuine Faust trying to optimize powers for town than some scum agenda.
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Wait, what was the quickhammering thing?
It starts here:
so thats L-1?
Hydrad is actually wrong about pit being at L-1, but noone contradicts. Then we have:
Now I kinda feel hypocritical for voting Seprix. I'm about to hammer Pit, but I think I want another day to consider options.
followed by:
...okay I'm convinced
vote: pit
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Yeah, don't like this at all.
vote: Library
I'm pretty sure he's scum now.
Another scummy Seprix post, considering at this point Library had already been lynched. (Ichi hammered a few posts prior.)
I don't remember the hammer, but yeah, that does look bad.
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I don't remember the hammer, but yeah, that does look bad.
And this does look bad as well. I kind of want to vote Seprix for that, but I guess he deserves to be reread first.
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Okay so..
Do you think Grey is Page because Silver died, or because he crumbed it?
If we think Silver was killed by Page and scum No Killed, then this does point to town for Grey and Pit. If Grey and Pit are town, and I'm right about Ichi and Faust, that only leaves... Seprix and Hydrad as the possible scum team?
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As for wagon analysis, lets do some:
Awaclus(6): Jimmmm, Silverspawn, Seprix, pit, Ichimaru Gin, Library Adventurer, witherweaver
Here you are, Silverspawn, lynching town.
xxpittip (4): Witherweaver, GreyICE, Seprix, LibraryAdventurer (L-1)
Silverscum, not on a scum wagon. How surprising.
LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad, Witherweaver, Faust, Silverspawn, xxpittip
Here you are, lynching town again.
Lets do some basic wagon analysis. There are three players in the game who have been on both Awaclus and LA. Of them, two of them have NOT been on Pit.
Hi, Silverscum. Hi pit.
More analysis based on the "assumption" that LA was town, which I'm just finding really weird. Like, why pursue this line of thought as town?
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Grey v. Silverspawn, along with Grey's reaction post-LA lynch makes Grey look scummy to me.
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Gray is pushing hard on Pit and SS, and since SS died town... Hrm.
Gray has to be scum, right? Hydrad is likely too. Pit is also likely. The remaining scum has to be in these 3.
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Hm.. suppose scum!Grey is Page. If Pit is town, Grey does not know if Swamp Hag will or will not be shot, so plays safe and doesn't kill. (I'm assuming Swamp Hag only triggers on factional kill, not Page ability; not sure if that is valid.) But he needs to use Page vig, so who to shoot? He would realize that Silver would make the most sense for town!Grey (as his top scum read), and at some point he's going to have to come forth and claim Page. Actually, given how the extra day went, he pretty much has to shoot Silver as Page.
Now, does it make sense to forgo a double kill because of the Swamp Hag issue?
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Okay. SS is interested in self-preservation over a town win, but if he was town, he'd still want the same deal. But Grey's plan is a guaranteed way to lynch scum and buy a bit more time. I hate flipflopping, but I think this may be the right thing to do here. It's certainly better than a No Lynch, right?
vote: SS
Another scummy Seprix vote. This comes after he argues for town!Silver and scum!Grey, and after Grey votes for Silver.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
Then I dare you to lynch me. I guarantee you town doesn't get you any closer to winning if I die.
I don't like this post at all.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
Then I dare you to lynch me. I guarantee you town doesn't get you any closer to winning if I die.
I don't like this post at all.
Lynch me and lose. Doesn't sound scummy to me.
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Hm.. suppose scum!Grey is Page. If Pit is town, Grey does not know if Swamp Hag will or will not be shot, so plays safe and doesn't kill. (I'm assuming Swamp Hag only triggers on factional kill, not Page ability; not sure if that is valid.) But he needs to use Page vig, so who to shoot? He would realize that Silver would make the most sense for town!Grey (as his top scum read), and at some point he's going to have to come forth and claim Page. Actually, given how the extra day went, he pretty much has to shoot Silver as Page.
Now, does it make sense to forgo a double kill because of the Swamp Hag issue?
Oh, it's possible that Grey is scum and the Page, no question. But in that case I still think it's better to leave him alive because then he has to use his power and we get some information.
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In the recent exchange, Grey looks certainly scummier than silver. But I'd argue that Seprix looks the worst.
Then I dare you to lynch me. I guarantee you town doesn't get you any closer to winning if I die.
I don't like this post at all.
Lynch me and lose. Doesn't sound scummy to me.
Vote Seprix
We don't lose if we lynch you, even if you're town. This kind of blackmailing is extremely scummy.
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Vote: Seprix for correct syntax.
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Information, because you think he has to create the neighborhood?
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Vote: Seprix for correct syntax.
Losing another town player doesn't get you any closer to winning. Actually, it gets you further from winning. And adopting a lynch towards my person because I say this truth will not deter me from saying it, nor will it get you closer to finding real scum.
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Information, because you think he has to create the neighborhood?
He may have to, and even if he doesn't, he would need to in order to appear townie. Plus if he stays gone, and we find his partner, we pretty much win.
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Unfortunately, I don't have time for another reread. I will do it tomorrow.
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Ok. Looks like there's been some good discussion. I'm going to a wedding today so won't be back until ~6 hours. My greatest fear right now is a faust/WW team, but I don't think it's that. I could see Seprix/Grey.
Anyway, still no vote count, huh? It's been a long time since we had one...
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I kind of doubt Seprix/Grey. Seprix was going a little too hard for Grey yesterday.
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So Seprix/Hydrad then? Hydrad could easily be fooling me here again. I'd really feel more comfortable with things if we knew exactly when the deadline was.
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Actually, thinking more, scum might want to no kill even if Pit were scum, else it would indicate they weren't worried about Swamp Hag and lead us towards Pit being scum.
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Woo ok now i'm fine with ICE/Seprix today. also WW/faust are town for me.
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Per the rules of this game, this day would end in 4 hours. We have not received a single vote count this day, nor answers to the questions posted in thread. Given these circumstances, I pledge for a deadline extension.
I will also contact Xerxes via PM.
Now's the time to vote, guys.
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I can vote for Seprix if needed, but I'd really rather confirm ICE first, and I expect we will get an extension.
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Yeah, voting for me is bad Lio. Come on. I made that amazing term Mr. Mod! I can't be scum! Right?
...right...?
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Hm.. I hope we get an extension.
To be safe, Vote: Seprix.
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Wow. This is messed up. Not getting an extension here is crazy.
I really hope Seprix is scum. I'm fine with his lynch though. He wasn't really convincing in his defense and didn't really seem like he was coming from a town perspective. Unfortunately, I've been wrong about him before. Guess we just wait for the mod to show up then?
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Wait, that wasn't hammer though was it?
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you hammered me, Thanks. Town. Now we won't win :'(
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With no vote counts, I honestly have no idea.
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This game was on hiatus for about 9 days. Obviously the mod is very busy.
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Anyways, in case I didn't get lynched, I am Vanilla Town. Nothing special whatsoever.
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This game was on hiatus for about 9 days. Obviously the mod is very busy.
So...what are you trying to say?
When you choose to mod a game, you're making a commitment. You can get a co-mod if you want or need one for whatever reason.
Checking the mod's profile, it looks like he was last on 2 days ago.
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I don't think that was a hammer.
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This game was on hiatus for about 9 days. Obviously the mod is very busy.
So...what are you trying to say?
When you choose to mod a game, you're making a commitment. You can get a co-mod if you want or need one for whatever reason.
Checking the mod's profile, it looks like he was last on 2 days ago.
I'm saying he's obviously busy. Lol. I'm not giving him an excuse. I just don't want to say anything bad, even if I may be thinking it.
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I mean, maybe someone died on his end? Maybe his internet is out? I'm not furious, just a bit puzzled is all.
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I mean, maybe someone died on his end? Maybe his internet is out? I'm not furious, just a bit puzzled is all.
Yeah, after checking his profile just now, it does make me a bit worried. I hope everything is well with him.
At the same time, this game was kind of neglected a lot--so probably would have been a good idea to grab a co-mod somewhere along the way.
I guess we're kind of in limbo until he comes back though.
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*sigh* You know, typing <> is just so much easier than [] on a German keyboard.
Xerxes, is the N3 option for Page obligatory?
Also, what happens if Grey doesn't respond to the prod? Do we get anothr replacement?
Yes - yes.
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Unvote
Can we get a count?
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I'm extremely sorry - I've had tons of things happening recently (today I wrote my valedictorian speech, did a public declaration of faith at church, went to a scholarship award banquet, went to my high school graduation, and finalized my roommate next year) - I'm never going to mod without a comod again.
Extension till Monday, 5:00 Central time
Vote Count is coming.
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Not Voting: GreyICE, IG, witherweaver
GreyICE: Hydrad, Liopoil, Seprix
Seprix: Faust
I did not see a hammer.
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Hm.. only Faust and me ever voted for Seprix? That was what I thought.
Now the question is whether Seprix believed he was hammered or was faking.
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ah we have to be careful as there is a chance 3 will lynch someone also.
I think seprix could have easily faked that response.
Vote: Seprix
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ah we have to be careful as there is a chance 3 will lynch someone also.
I think seprix could have easily faked that response.
Vote: Seprix
God damn it.
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Hydrad!scum it is...
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Hydrad!scum it is...
except its not!
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also the fact you claimed VT makes me suuspicious. I feel like at this point lots of powers have been given out so you claiming VT seems like a lower chance of being possible. I'm fully aware that it could still be possible but the odds just seem lower.
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... how many powers do you think are unaccounted for?
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Yeah, I think Hydrad may be scum. We still (probably) have one more day though right?
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... how many powers do you think are unaccounted for?
not many but I'm guessting there are also some people that started with PR's since this is RMM.
Like I said its just a small thing though. I still am thinking seprix is scummy even without the VT claim.
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Yeah, I think Hydrad may be scum. We still (probably) have one more day though right?
Huh? We still have today.
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Yeah, I think Hydrad may be scum. We still (probably) have one more day though right?
Huh? We still have today.
Oh, he didn't hammer Seprix?
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also the fact you claimed VT makes me suuspicious. I feel like at this point lots of powers have been given out so you claiming VT seems like a lower chance of being possible. I'm fully aware that it could still be possible but the odds just seem lower.
Well, everyone thinks I'm scum. Who the hell is going to give me a power?
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also the fact you claimed VT makes me suuspicious. I feel like at this point lots of powers have been given out so you claiming VT seems like a lower chance of being possible. I'm fully aware that it could still be possible but the odds just seem lower.
Well, everyone thinks I'm scum. Who the hell is going to give me a power?
Err... powers are distributed randomly? Is this some kind of weird scumslip or just not paying attention?
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Okay, last effort of today: I'll reread Seprix, to find out which of Seprix/Hydrad is the better lynch today. I don't really want to lynch anyone else I think.
So, first serious thing is he votes for WW for joke claiming scum. That's a very easy vote right there. Then does a reads list, let's see what that does:
Scummy: Hydrad, pit, WW, Awaclus, Ichi
As far as partner theories go, LA gets a pass here, which probably means Seprix's partner (if applicable) is on that list above. Eh well, that's nearly every living player, so boo.
He defends his vote on WW for a while when multiple people point out that it's not a very good vote. Then he joins the Awaclus wagon. Man, does that look scummy. Read for yourselves:
No.. Awaclus won't die by my vote alone, and he HAS played worse than WW.. Oh hell. Might as well see where this goes.
vote: Awaclus
Also he unvotes again at L-1, which is also tentatively scummy. Then the WW wagon picks up again, and he votes there again. Well, I don't think Seprix/WW is a very viable scum team here. The sole reason for his WW vote seems to be that joke, that's no good.
Well, okay..
unvote
I'd feel compelled to vote for Pit, but then everyone will yell at me, so I think I will abstain for now until I have a very good reason not to.
pit/lio for partner? At least possible. Then he OMGUSes Ichi. He seems pretty convinced with this, but then Awaclus does his thing, and he joins that wagon again. Now things get weird. He unvotes and complains about not being taken seriously. Then this:
I'd vote for IG, or Awaclus.. Pit is suspicious enough to where I'll consider his lynch if there's good evidence for it. Anyone else, I do not think it reasonable.
And he votes Awaclus again. I don't know. I really don't like this D1 play. He apparently tries to appear as though he's considering stuff, but really he just jumps on any wagon that pops up (except pit, where he only does some serious hedging). And there's this, after the hammer:
Okay... So if Awaclus is not scum... Then what?
D2 stars with him voting Hydrad. Then changes to pit. And then this:
Eh... I really can't find anything all that scummy about you.. I don't understand the hype. I thought I'd get it, but I really don't.
unvote
Scummy as in scumpartnerscummy. Has an argument with Ichi and votes for him. Then takes pit to what is thought to be L-1.
__________________
Okay, I don't have time to finish this now. I just remembered something important though. See next post.
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So I think Seprix is pretty scummy. Yet something happened in our QT that makes me think it would be better to not lynch him. Like, if Seprix is scum, lynching Seprix's partner >>>> lynching Seprix. Since Seprix claimed VT, I can just reveal:
Our QT made it so that every time Seprix targets a player, they are jaikept.
That means that scum!Seprix cannot perform kills.
Lynch Seprix's partner and we win. I think lio, Hydrad, Ichi makes the most viable partners, in that order. Since Hydrad much much scummier independently though, I prefer a Hydrad lynch.
Vote: Hydrad
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I don't like Ichi not pointing this out. I mean, I forgot as well, so it's possible he forgot, but it's also possible that he didn't want votes to change to Hydrad, which really is the most likely thing to happen.
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Hmm this is an issue. Usually I wouldn't be worried about 1 vote on my but I'm pretty sure faust will be able to influence the others into voting me if it comes to that.
I will see if I can make a defense that will show you truly how towny I am and make you laugh at the thought that I could even be scum.
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So it looks like some of my suspicion is due to the fact that my LA looked like bussing.
here is start of day 2
Vote: Library
I vote him right away now that the day 1 newbie pass is over.
btw I'm still liking Seprix/Library after all this.
I post a while later stating that I still prefer LA.
That appeared fast.
I do think that we should use these lynches though.
So who do you want to lynch?
Seprix/LA!
I post a couple days later still stating the same thing.
LA has felt pretty scummy to me since day 1 but I gave him a bye since hes new.
mini reasoning but i guess gut read.
Hmm so thats pretty much it. While I don't have a way to fully prove it I guess I can say that in my other games as scum I'm pretty sure I've never instantly jumped on a scumpartners lynch and refused to move it elsewhere for multiple days.
So thats my lower then initially expected defense on my votes on LA. I was hoping I had more but I guess I didn't give many reasons on it. Sorry!
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And after doing a skim reread of greyICE I'm still in favour of lynching/testing him. early day 2 it felt like he was trying to move us of LA the whole time which scum I think wanted to do much more there as a mislynch gave them chances for a win. After that he fought extremely hard for a SS lynch who also ended up being town.
While it could be that his reads are wrong I still don't feel good bout them.
So SS/ICE is still my preffered today.
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thats supposed to be Seprix/ICE
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Humm, well, I suppose Hydrad's attitude towards Seprix/LA at least makes it unlikely that the scum team is the three of them. In that case, maybe my scum read on Seprix should lead me to vote lio? This is hard.
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And I just remembered Hydrad was aware of what we did to Seprix as well. So Hydrad, why didn't you say something?
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And I just remembered Hydrad was aware of what we did to Seprix as well. So Hydrad, why didn't you say something?
I didn't consider the fact that him claiming VT made it worth claiming. Plus in the chance that our QT is scum free I thought that if seprix is scum they might waste night kills trying to use seprix.
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And I just remembered Hydrad was aware of what we did to Seprix as well. So Hydrad, why didn't you say something?
I didn't consider the fact that him claiming VT made it worth claiming. Plus in the chance that our QT is scum free I thought that if seprix is scum they might waste night kills trying to use seprix.
You know that Seprix is part of our QT, right?
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And I just remembered Hydrad was aware of what we did to Seprix as well. So Hydrad, why didn't you say something?
I didn't consider the fact that him claiming VT made it worth claiming. Plus in the chance that our QT is scum free I thought that if seprix is scum they might waste night kills trying to use seprix.
You know that Seprix is part of our QT, right?
Oh he posted so little I thought it was just you me and IG. I forgot he was even in there.
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maybe my scum read on Seprix should lead me to vote lio? This is hard.
Umm, what? I get what you are saying, but this makes no sense
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So I think Seprix is pretty scummy. Yet something happened in our QT that makes me think it would be better to not lynch him. Like, if Seprix is scum, lynching Seprix's partner >>>> lynching Seprix. Since Seprix claimed VT, I can just reveal:
Our QT made it so that every time Seprix targets a player, they are jaikept.
That means that scum!Seprix cannot perform kills.
Lynch Seprix's partner and we win. I think lio, Hydrad, Ichi makes the most viable partners, in that order. Since Hydrad much much scummier independently though, I prefer a Hydrad lynch.
Vote: Hydrad
Well, great. You wasted that on me though, you could have hit scum. Even if you hit scum, there will still be a night kill.
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And I just remembered Hydrad was aware of what we did to Seprix as well. So Hydrad, why didn't you say something?
I didn't consider the fact that him claiming VT made it worth claiming. Plus in the chance that our QT is scum free I thought that if seprix is scum they might waste night kills trying to use seprix.
You know that Seprix is part of our QT, right?
Stuff is going on in the QT? Well, I guess maybe I might have a power then. I don't know. I haven't been checking the QT, like at all.
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Does this endow Seprix the ability to target players, or only makes them Jailkept if he targets them with some ability?
Also, was Seprix aware of this? It seems like the entire QT would have known...
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Well PPE apparently not.
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When a game goes on a 9 day delay, I tend to zone out. Also, I have college starting today. Crazy times right now.
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To clarify for the other QT, the extra Night was because of our QT choice. During the "first" Night 2, we chose a card that would put the game in an additional Night phase where scum could not perform a kill, and we all got a new selection of cards to choose. So you should have gotten to choose from two sets of cards.
I think XP's issues that came up added some additional delay, but it was basically a double night because of us.
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And if you're wondering why we chose to do that, the other options available did not seem very great, and seemed to have a pretty big risk if they fell to scum. So we banked on the other QT being able to choose a better card. I think Silver and I were the only ones active in the QT (Grey and Pit weren't posting).
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Does this endow Seprix the ability to target players, or only makes them Jailkept if he targets them with some ability?
Also, was Seprix aware of this? It seems like the entire QT would have known...
No, as I understand, it only works if he can already target. Which is why I thought it doesn't hurt to claim it now.
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To clarify for the other QT, the extra Night was because of our QT choice. During the "first" Night 2, we chose a card that would put the game in an additional Night phase where scum could not perform a kill, and we all got a new selection of cards to choose. So you should have gotten to choose from two sets of cards.
I think XP's issues that came up added some additional delay, but it was basically a double night because of us.
Yes, our other card was Ichi's loved thing.
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I don't like Ichi not pointing this out. I mean, I forgot as well, so it's possible he forgot, but it's also possible that he didn't want votes to change to Hydrad, which really is the most likely thing to happen.
I remembered when I was deciding who to pick as my target for storyteller. After that, I guess it kind of slipped my mind. I'm not voting anyone, so I don't really see what your point is. I thought Seprix was hammered--and he obviously was privy to the information himself.
This makes Hydrad pretty much a straight superior lynch to Seprix though. However, Grey still hasn't shown up. Are we still within the window of replacements? Because it seems like he's gone completely. Yeah...he hasn't been on since May 8th.
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maybe my scum read on Seprix should lead me to vote lio? This is hard.
Umm, what? I get what you are saying, but this makes no sense
Oh, sorry, missed your previous post. I'm not sure why you think I'm his partner, but whatever. I agree that lynching Seprix can wait at least a day then.
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I don't like Ichi not pointing this out. I mean, I forgot as well, so it's possible he forgot, but it's also possible that he didn't want votes to change to Hydrad, which really is the most likely thing to happen.
I remembered when I was deciding who to pick as my target for storyteller. After that, I guess it kind of slipped my mind. I'm not voting anyone, so I don't really see what your point is. I thought Seprix was hammered--and he obviously was privy to the information himself.
This makes Hydrad pretty much a straight superior lynch to Seprix though. However, Grey still hasn't shown up. Are we still within the window of replacements? Because it seems like he's gone completely. Yeah...he hasn't been on since May 8th.
Xerxes said he would be replaced. So I think he's better left alive.
-
Oh. I must have missed that. Yeah, better wait for someone to sub in then.
-
Can I trust you to get the lynch in tonight? I'm going to sleep.
-
Can I trust you to get the lynch in tonight? I'm going to sleep.
Lynching Hydrad? Sure.
I hope this isn't one of those reverse-make-you-feel-trusted-scum manipulations though. I'm fairly certain with how you handled LA that you couldn't be his partner. What's he at, L-1? I could hammer right now.
-
Vote: Hydrad
L-2
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When's the day ending? I would like to do a targetted reread of Hydrad.
-
When's the day ending? I would like to do a targetted reread of Hydrad.
You have 45 minutes...
-
Damn. Well, I'll be here.
I really hope lio isn't scum.
-
Yeah, no time.
Vote: Hydrad
-
Damn. Well, I'll be here.
I really hope lio isn't scum.
No worries there!
Sorry I haven't been as active scumhunting, I'm just not as invested in this game as people who have been here since Day 1. But really, POE. We aren't lynching GreyICE, Ichi is getting townier by the second, we also aren't lynching Seprix even though he's scummy, I'm town, Faust is too active to lynch (this is a bit scary...), which leaves just WW and Hydrad. And I like a Hydrad lynch better than a WW lynch, not for any super-concrete reasons, but well Hydrad has been more self-preserving and WW focused on making the right decisions.
-
vote: Hydrad
-
That's hammer.
Tonight, if Hydrad flips town, all townies get a chance to vote, and if we all vote for the same person they are killed. Should we try to use coordinate this? If GreyICE is town it is hard though.
-
Well, hopefully Hydrad flips scum, but if he doesn't, my vote will be for Seprix unless I am convinced otherwise very soon...
-
That's hammer.
Tonight, if Hydrad flips town, all townies get a chance to vote, and if we all vote for the same person they are killed. Should we try to use coordinate this? If GreyICE is town it is hard though.
Ooh. Was that the thing that WW was talking about with you earlier in-thread I'm guessing?
Yeah, I think we should try to coordinate. Thought you're right about Grey.
PPE: Yeah. If Hydrad is town, I think that's a good pick.
-
Hmm, actually I'll vote for Faust if we have to. He really looks like Seprix's partner, if Hydrad is town. But really I'm fine with Seprix too.
That's hammer.
Tonight, if Hydrad flips town, all townies get a chance to vote, and if we all vote for the same person they are killed. Should we try to use coordinate this? If GreyICE is town it is hard though.
Ooh. Was that the thing that WW was talking about with you earlier in-thread I'm guessing?
Yeah, I think we should try to coordinate. Thought you're right about Grey.
PPE: Yeah. If Hydrad is town, I think that's a good pick.
Yes, this was it. Hoping scum would try a quickhammer.
-
I'm am town!
-
I'm am town!
:(
Hoping that the double 'am' cancels out and means he is not actually town...
-
It doesn't actually say when we get to vote.
-
It says that "all town players" get the chance to vote and that the vote has to be unanimous to get the lynch through.
I'm not sure if the voting is done publically (and only town's count for unanimousness) or not. Or if "town" just meant all players.
-
Hmm, actually I'll vote for Faust if we have to. He really looks like Seprix's partner, if Hydrad is town. But really I'm fine with Seprix too.
That's hammer.
Tonight, if Hydrad flips town, all townies get a chance to vote, and if we all vote for the same person they are killed. Should we try to use coordinate this? If GreyICE is town it is hard though.
Ooh. Was that the thing that WW was talking about with you earlier in-thread I'm guessing?
Yeah, I think we should try to coordinate. Thought you're right about Grey.
PPE: Yeah. If Hydrad is town, I think that's a good pick.
Yes, this was it. Hoping scum would try a quickhammer.
Wait, where the hell does that come from?
The best use for that power is clearly to target Grey, as he may not be replaced in time.
-
Yeah, that does make sense. It is also a way to check if Grey is town.
-
It doesn't actually say when we get to vote.
True. Vote: Seprix
Hmm, if Seprix is somehow also town (that would seriously confuse me), he obviously won't self-vote, and so wouldn't die? Cool, so this is foolproof.
I'm pretty sure that town means only town players, so I'm pretty sure it will be via PM. But I think as many of us should vote during twilight as possible, then copy the votes.
-
Yeah, that does make sense. It is also a way to check if Grey is town.
Yeah, because we totally didn't have a way to check if Grey was town or not...
-
It doesn't actually say when we get to vote.
True. Vote: Seprix
Hmm, if Seprix is somehow also town (that would seriously confuse me), he obviously won't self-vote, and so wouldn't die? Cool, so this is foolproof.
I'm pretty sure that town means only town players, so I'm pretty sure it will be via PM. But I think as many of us should vote during twilight as possible, then copy the votes.
No, town!Grey can't vote. Grey is better here.
-
Wait, where the hell does that come from?
The best use for that power is clearly to target Grey, as he may not be replaced in time.
You totally diverted the lynch away from him. Not for bad reasons, but still.
hmm, okay, you and ww are right about that. Vote: GreyICE
-
Sure
Vote: GreyICE
XP, can we get some clarity on the logistics of Haunted Woods?
-
If only I could replace grey.
-
Gl though everyone I trust you!
-
vote: Seprix then
-
Sigh.
-
vote: Seprix then
No, Grey. If how long it took for pit to be replaced is any indication, Grey will not be able to submit a vote tonight, so the only scum we can possibly get is GreyICE, if he is scum.
-
XP, can we get some clarity on the logistics of Haunted Woods?
What about it?
Thread will be locked tonight. Hydrad has been lynched
-
When/how do we get the opportunity to vote?
-
vote: Seprix then
No, Grey. If how long it took for pit to be replaced is any indication, Grey will not be able to submit a vote tonight, so the only scum we can possibly get is GreyICE, if he is scum.
But...if Seprix is scum, he can't vote to save himself, right?
-
vote: Seprix then
No, Grey. If how long it took for pit to be replaced is any indication, Grey will not be able to submit a vote tonight, so the only scum we can possibly get is GreyICE, if he is scum.
But...if Seprix is scum, he can't vote to save himself, right?
He can't vote, but since GreyICE doesn't vote we can be unaminous.
-
vote: Seprix then
No, Grey. If how long it took for pit to be replaced is any indication, Grey will not be able to submit a vote tonight, so the only scum we can possibly get is GreyICE, if he is scum.
But...if Seprix is scum, he can't vote to save himself, right?
He can't vote, but since GreyICE doesn't vote we can be unaminous.
Unless of course GreyICE is also scum, in which case voting for GreyICE is still best.
-
vote: Seprix then
No, Grey. If how long it took for pit to be replaced is any indication, Grey will not be able to submit a vote tonight, so the only scum we can possibly get is GreyICE, if he is scum.
But...if Seprix is scum, he can't vote to save himself, right?
He can't vote, but since GreyICE doesn't vote we can be unaminous.
Aah. I get it. Cause with him being absent, any other vote will fail if GreyICE is town.
PPE: 1
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Also, I thought Grey was faust's biggest townread.
If Hydrad is town (which I'm assuming is the criteria for your guys' thing) we can't afford to have another town die during the night. That plus the scum NK will cost us the game.
-
The town player will obviously not vote for himself.........
dot dot dot
-
The town player will obviously not vote for himself.........
dot dot dot
Uh. Yeah, sorry I wasn't thinking. :-[
vote: Grey
-
If Hydrad is scum, do we not vote then though?
-
If Hydrad is scum, do we not vote then though?
Yeah we don't get to vote if Hydrad flips scum.
-
Thread locked.
Final Vote Count:
Hydrad (4): faust, liopoil, WW, Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (2): GreyICE, Seprix
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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Hydrad was a vanilla townie.
Haunted Woods Triggers
Each town player must PM me a player during the night. If the choices are unanimous, the player will be killed.
Night stuff will go up tomorrow.
-
I should have clarified - if you don't want to vote, PM me saying that.
-
The night will end at 3:00 pm Sunday.
-
Ashersky, who subbed in for GreyICE, died in the night. He was the Page.
Day 4 Starts!
Vote Count:
Not Voting:
Seprix, Faust, Liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, witherweaver
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whoa k. NO ONE VOTE!
We need to lynch scum lynch today. I will probably do a reread soon.
-
What the hell just happened?
-
Ashersky, who subbed in for GreyICE, died in the night. He was the Page.
Does this imply that ashersky was town?
-
First, did everyone vote for Ashersky/GreICE?
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Hmmm, okay. When day started, I got a link to the page QT. Since ash was the page, that means that the (only) other person in the QT is scum, since I am town. I don't yet know who the other person is, because they haven't told me yet. Why am I claiming this? Because there are two possibilities:
1) The other person claims. Then we are in a 1v1, and well then I know who scum is, and I like to believe I can show you all that I am town and get the other guy lynched.
2) The other guy doesn't claim. Well, in that case we couldn't have gotten anything better, and I am confirmed town because clearly the other guy is scum, meaning that I must be town (assuming no counterclaims).
So, I request that everyone must, in their next post state whether they got a QT with me or not. I revealed myself in the QT, so you will know...
Also, I used the Swamp Hag and did vote for Ashersky last night. But since he was town and clearly didn't vote for himself, it doesn't matter too much. Also we can't really safely test the Swamp Hag :(
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I did not get a QT.
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It matters a little bit if everyone voted for Ash or not; I'll wait to see what everyone says.
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Oh, this is nice. Vote: liopoil
I am in that QT as well. This is good... I don't have much time now, but will post more thoughts soon.
Oh, and I picked ashersky.
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Vote: faust
I'll vote for Faust if we have to. He really looks like Seprix's partner, if Hydrad is town. But really I'm fine with Seprix too.
If I didn't call it already, I'm calling it now. Faust-Seprix scumteam.
-
So Liopoil/Ice, Faust/Ice, or Pit/Ice...
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So Liopoil/Ice, Faust/Ice, or Pit/Ice...
Huh?
-
Ashersky must have been some sort of lover, right? Ice is scum, obviously.
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.... have you been reading this game?
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Ashersky must have been some sort of lover, right? Ice is scum, obviously.
Dude, Ashersky replaced GreyIce, and Ashersky is dead town, and also the page. Neither are in the game anymore. Also, I replaced pit. Where have you been? :P
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Dude, this game has gone on waaaaaay too long. I don't even know anything anymore, lol
-
So some context:
When I got the link to the neighborhood QT, I thought that scum would probably not want to fight me, since the way I understand things, I'm the towniest guy around. I figured that if I claimed being in there, then scum would just keep quiet, and all we get would be me as an IC, which is bad as most people think I'm town already.
So I used a fake name. I thought I could use scum's reaction to that as an indication of how desperate the mafia is. Apparently quite desperate: They think creating a 1vs1 situation against an unknown townie is their best shot at winning. That makes Seprix as lio's partner more likely, seeing that he was under the heaviest pressure the last day.
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I would think scum!Seprix is somewhat more likely to know, at the very least, who is in this game.
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Seprix, who did you vote for for Swamp Hag?
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Seprix, who did you vote for for Swamp Hag?
Haunted Woods
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Right, whatever it was called.
-
Ashersky, who subbed in for GreyICE, died in the night. He was the Page.
Does this imply that ashersky was town?
Yes
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I voted for ICE. It was that or myself.
-
...?
-
...?
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players voted for me last night.
-
...?
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players voted for me last night.
Well I mean, we did say we would vote for GreyICE... and it looks like everyone did, although ichi has not confirmed yet.
-
...?
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players voted for me last night.
Well I mean, we did say we would vote for GreyICE... and it looks like everyone did, although ichi has not confirmed yet.
I wouldn't know, I'm barely keeping track. Man, I have a lot to read.
-
...?
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players voted for me last night.
But why would you consider voting for yourself?
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It took me like a half-hour to figure out everything I needed to know after subbing in... this shouldn't be too hard.
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Ok. I'm here. I also voted for GreyICE.
Could lio and faust unvote please? We are in super quickhammer territory. I want to reread.
My understanding of the situation is Ashersky's page ability that created a qt with him, one townie, and one scum went off last night--and faust and lio were the ones invited?
So it is a decision between the two of them. Sorry if that's obvious to people, I just want to be sure of things.
-
Yeah...Seprix seems like scum--which is great since in all likelihood he can't NK people. I'm leaning towards scum!lio at the moment as well.
-
It took me like a half-hour to figure out everything I needed to know after subbing in... this shouldn't be too hard.
Well...you aren't the one that has to figure stuff out right? If you're town, you know faust is scum. We have to decide between you.
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Ok. I'm here. I also voted for GreyICE.
Could lio and faust unvote please? We are in super quickhammer territory. I want to reread.
My understanding of the situation is Ashersky's page ability that created a qt with him, one townie, and one scum went off last night--and faust and lio were the ones invited?
So it is a decision between the two of them. Sorry if that's obvious to people, I just want to be sure of things.
Yes this is right. Faust is conf!scum to me, so I'm voting for him. Faust has to pretend like he's town, in which case I would be conf!scum to him, so he votes for me. Quickhammers only happen when town votes for town, and this is impossible here.
I'm leaning towards scum!lio at the moment as well.
Nope!
It took me like a half-hour to figure out everything I needed to know after subbing in... this shouldn't be too hard.
Well...you aren't the one that has to figure stuff out right? If you're town, you know faust is scum. We have to decide between you.
No, I meant when I first subbed in on D3, it didn't take too long to figure out everything relevant without having read anything at all previously. Meanwhile Seprix has been playing all game and is clueless.
-
We have time today. I'm going to reread both of you. Has anyone considered the possibility of WW being scum?
-
It matters a little bit if everyone voted for Ash or not; I'll wait to see what everyone says.
So it looks like everyone vote for ash. Why does it matter?
-
We have time today. I'm going to reread both of you. Has anyone considered the possibility of WW being scum?
Nope, that's the last thing on my mind right now. Faust is scum, ww of course hasn't, you seem to be considering it, and Seprix doesn't seem to be considering much of anything right now. That's everyone in the game.
-
Yeah. Unless scum has a RB or some way of neutralizing what we did to Seprix, I'm not really seeing faust voting to give his partner Lost Arts. I don't see that it has any utility for scum. faust had to have known there was a chance he would go down at some point, so why take away his partner's ability to kill?
PPE: 1
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Yeah...even then, I don't think giving people cards is something that can even be blocked.
-
Yeah. Unless scum has a RB or some way of neutralizing what we did to Seprix, I'm not really seeing faust voting to give his partner Lost Arts. I don't see that it has any utility for scum. faust had to have known there was a chance he would go down at some point, so why take away his partner's ability to kill?
PPE: 1
Hmmm, good point. Maybe I should consider that ww might be scum :P
But that's totally something faust might try. Because chances were that Seprix gets lynched before faust, in which case faust looks really good like you said. Also he used that bit to switch the lynch from Seprix to Hydrad at the last moment yesterday.
-
That's true. It's possible he did that as a way to keep Seprix alive for longer than he should have been. I just wonder if it's worth it?
-
Ok. I'm here. I also voted for GreyICE.
Could lio and faust unvote please? We are in super quickhammer territory. I want to reread.
My understanding of the situation is Ashersky's page ability that created a qt with him, one townie, and one scum went off last night--and faust and lio were the ones invited?
So it is a decision between the two of them. Sorry if that's obvious to people, I just want to be sure of things.
One of them has to be scum, so it's not a big deal if they're voting for each other. But no one else should vote yet.
-
It matters a little bit if everyone voted for Ash or not; I'll wait to see what everyone says.
So it looks like everyone vote for ash. Why does it matter?
Because, did scum know for sure that everyone voted for Ash? If yes, scum has a representative in each TT and you're conf!scum. Your partner is therefore Ichi or Seprix, Seprix being the more likely I think.
Killing Ash is somewhat indicative of scum being certain he would be voted for unanimously, because he was confirmed town if left alive and everyone did vote for him.
If everyone didn't vote for him, then it would indicate that both scum were in the same QT, since it indicates they would have (incorrectly) assumed the Ash decision was unanimous. Well, I guess that couldn't have been the case anyway, since I knew we both voted for Ash, a non-Ash vote would have come from the other TT, so the scum team would have to be me/you, which I know is not true. I didn't think that all the way through, though.
Also, only town had to send a PM, scum didn't. So the reaction to the question could have been somewhat telling. Seprix, for instance, was suspicious, but I'm not sure if it's oblivious town or oblivious scum.
At any rate, everyone voting for Ash and Ash dying makes me lean a little more scum on you, because it makes it more likely to me that there was scum in our QT, and you're the only option. On the other hand, we all agreed on Grey ahead of time, so they could have just assumed/felt they had to play it safe.
-
At any rate, let's think.. if Faust is scum, partner must be Seprix or Ichi. Notably, that means scum had no representative in our QT since Library was lynched. I'm not sure if this really indicates anything we can detect, but it's something to keep in mind while reading.
-
But I'm an IC.
-
Yeah. Unless scum has a RB or some way of neutralizing what we did to Seprix, I'm not really seeing faust voting to give his partner Lost Arts. I don't see that it has any utility for scum. faust had to have known there was a chance he would go down at some point, so why take away his partner's ability to kill?
PPE: 1
Um.. how did the vote work? It was a QT vote, right? So Faust arguing not to give to a partner!Seprix would look bad.
-
But I'm an IC.
I don't actually think you're scum; Seprix is the more likely choice.
Well, in the only possibilities are
Faust/Seprix
Lio/Seprix
Faust/Ichi
Lio/Ichi
If Ichi is eliminated, Seprix *has* to be scum, whether or not Faust or Lio is the partner. We can probably look to see what partner scenarios make the most sense.
-
Interesting, I see why the question is relevant now, but I don't think it's super important because it is pretty contrived, and scum would be pretty safe to assume that we would all vote for GreyICE. Also, faust-ww is a scumteam where there is one scum in each QT that you omit...
But I'm an IC.
Good point. Wait, IIRC isn't ww IC too?
-
Yeah. Unless scum has a RB or some way of neutralizing what we did to Seprix, I'm not really seeing faust voting to give his partner Lost Arts. I don't see that it has any utility for scum. faust had to have known there was a chance he would go down at some point, so why take away his partner's ability to kill?
PPE: 1
Um.. how did the vote work? It was a QT vote, right? So Faust arguing not to give to a partner!Seprix would look bad.
Yeah, it was a qt vote. Thing is, faust was the one that suggested we target Seprix with it in the first place though.
PPE: 2
-
Yeah. Unless scum has a RB or some way of neutralizing what we did to Seprix, I'm not really seeing faust voting to give his partner Lost Arts. I don't see that it has any utility for scum. faust had to have known there was a chance he would go down at some point, so why take away his partner's ability to kill?
PPE: 1
Um.. how did the vote work? It was a QT vote, right? So Faust arguing not to give to a partner!Seprix would look bad.
Well, I guess I could have argued for another player. Seprix wasn't alone in being scummy.
-
Interesting, I see why the question is relevant now, but I don't think it's super important because it is pretty contrived, and scum would be pretty safe to assume that we would all vote for GreyICE. Also, faust-ww is a scumteam where there is one scum in each QT that you omit...
But I'm an IC.
Good point. Wait, IIRC isn't ww IC too?
Obviously I'm not going to scumhunt on the assumption that I'm part of a scum team.
-
But I'm an IC.
Not sure I would go that far. I mean, the thing about Grey was townie, and the fact that he got nightkilled makes it a bit more likely that he was actually loved, so you're pretty far down the list. Actually yes, probably the towniest player around. But not an IC. The only one who's getting IC status is me, at the end of the day.
-
The only one who's getting IC status is me, at the end of the day.
Hilarious.
-
Is there any way I could help? I mean, I could do a lio reread to show you that he's scum, but it'll probably turn out very biased since I already know. I think it's better for you guys to reread, and if you have any questions about my play, I'll be happy to answer.
-
Reread of pit
D1:
#119 Pit says he thinks Jimmmmm's townslip is "completely null". That's interesting, since it seemed like a pretty clear townslip to me--and scum went on to kill him that night.
#224 cautions people about being too hasty on wagons and tells Seprix he should have announced L-1 on Awaclus
#289 votes Awaclus
#365 He doesn't like the votes on ichi and votes Seprix instead
#466 Back to Awaclus. (note, I haven't really seen anything about why pit thinks he is scum)
#734 Here, he disagrees with LA about his vote on me and pressures him to have better reasons.
#886 pit agrees with faust's plan over Grey's
#911 Pit's Swamp Hag claim
#1005 Pit votes LA because he claimed scum--this is notably after LA has already been lynched though...
In general, pit has very little content. Literally only 13 posts for D1--most of them votes. Really, I see his late vote for LA as a bid to grab towncred. His #734 with LA really doesn't look like partner interaction to me--but what do other's think?
PPE's: bunches
PPE: Yeah, I'm not a literal IC but close too. I just mean including theories with me as scum is kind of a waste of time.
-
Oops. Format fail. #734 and on is D2.
-
Is there any way I could help? I mean, I could do a lio reread to show you that he's scum, but it'll probably turn out very biased since I already know. I think it's better for you guys to reread, and if you have any questions about my play, I'll be happy to answer.
Well, you may know Lio is scum but you don't know who his partner is.
-
Pit was actually a much bigger lurker than I remember. He only averaged 7 posts each day he was around.
-
Is there any way I could help? I mean, I could do a lio reread to show you that he's scum, but it'll probably turn out very biased since I already know. I think it's better for you guys to reread, and if you have any questions about my play, I'll be happy to answer.
Well, you may know Lio is scum but you don't know who his partner is.
Yeah, but I feel like my efforts should go into convincing you of lio's scumminess today, and then tomorrow if I'm still alive I can go look for his partner. Or do you think there may be any merit in lynching someone else than lio/me today?
-
Actually. Ugh. lio should unvote. lio needs to unvote. If he doesn't unvote in his next post, you should lynch him immediately.
-
Oh.. because Swamp Hag?
But then you could have been quickhammered already.
-
He won't listen to me, but you guys can bully him into unvoting. As a sign of my goodwill, I will unvote as well. unvote
-
Also, I'm thinking we can figure out which is more likely between you and Lio by examining the possible partners.
-
Look, if I were scum, why did I claim in my first post today? People don't think I'm town, in general. Faust, ww, and ichi were all regarded as more likely to be town than I yesterday. So my only hope would be if Seprix were the other townie? 1/3 chance, if Seprix is not my partner that is. And if my partner isn't Seprix, why not just try to get Seprix lynched? Instead, I could just deny being in the QT and a random townie is IC, not a big deal as long as it isn't Seprix. And if Seprix is my partner, then doing this is hopeless, right?
Actually. Ugh. lio should unvote. lio needs to unvote. If he doesn't unvote in his next post, you should lynch him immediately.
What? Unvote, whatever. But you better explain this right away.
-
Yeah. At this point, I think lio should claim everything about his use of Swamp Hag.
PPE: Yeah. I think that's a good idea WW. I will reread LA.
-
Oh.. because Swamp Hag?
But then you could have been quickhammered already.
Man, no need to spell it out...
Thing is, with Swamp Hag they wouldn't know who is hated, so quicklynching me only has little chance of success. But once the tides go against lio, they might try it. And then it's better if they need to vote twice so that we can prevent the hammer.
-
Yeah. At this point, I think lio should claim everything about his use of Swamp Hag.
I already did. I subbed in at the start of D3, and since Pit was gone on N2 swamp hag was not used. Tonight I used it. So scum is hated, either faust or his partner, but we can't test them. I guess we could test faust?
-
You mean last night you used it?
-
Look, if I were scum, why did I claim in my first post today? People don't think I'm town, in general. Faust, ww, and ichi were all regarded as more likely to be town than I yesterday. So my only hope would be if Seprix were the other townie? 1/3 chance, if Seprix is not my partner that is. And if my partner isn't Seprix, why not just try to get Seprix lynched? Instead, I could just deny being in the QT and a random townie is IC, not a big deal as long as it isn't Seprix. And if Seprix is my partner, then doing this is hopeless, right?
Actually. Ugh. lio should unvote. lio needs to unvote. If he doesn't unvote in his next post, you should lynch him immediately.
What? Unvote, whatever. But you better explain this right away.
You did claim in your first post today to make that argument. Really, you probably thought that this is your best shot at winning. Probably you and your partner expected to have a hard time mislynching someone (which suggests Seprix as a partner), and so you chose the all-or-nothing approach.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
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Also, I'm thinking we can figure out which is more likely between you and Lio by examining the possible partners.
I suppose you're right. I'll try to get some rereading done then.
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You mean last night you used it?
Yes, N3. Scum obviously killed, so one of them is hated. There's a 50-50 chance it's faust, so hopefully I don't even need to convince you it's him! I don't see what all the fuss is, so Vote: faust. Somebody should vote and unvote for faust in the same post.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
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You mean last night you used it?
Yes, N3. Scum obviously killed, so one of them is hated. There's a 50-50 chance it's faust, so hopefully I don't even need to convince you it's him! I don't see what all the fuss is, so Vote: faust. Somebody should vote and unvote for faust in the same post.
SO this is lio trying to convince to test me, and then I'm hated and we lose. It's all so painfully obvious.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
Exactly. We know the page wasn't scum now--so scum had no chance of vigging someone and using the swamp hag to make a town hated.
PPE: damn.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
And that you're the unlucky townie? Poor you. Look, if I were scum and knew that there was a hated townie, then my partner and I would just go around voting everyone up to two one at a time and there would be nothing town could do about it.
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Oh shit we can test, just have Lio vote for Faust and have one person vote and unovte *in the same post*.
PPEs
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Oh shit we can test, just have Lio vote for Faust and have one person vote and unovte *in the same post*.
PPEs
Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Do it!
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But...is there any possibility there is town that is hated? faust acts like there is.
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Oh shit we can test, just have Lio vote for Faust and have one person vote and unovte *in the same post*.
PPEs
READ THE PPES BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
And that you're the unlucky townie? Poor you. Look, if I were scum and knew that there was a hated townie, then my partner and I would just go around voting everyone up to two one at a time and there would be nothing town could do about it.
Well unless your partner is Seprix and isn't exactly following everything in great detail.
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But...is there any possibility there is town that is hated? faust acts like there is.
Yes, additional night, no mafia kill.
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But...is there any possibility there is town that is hated? faust acts like there is.
I mean, I think he's right that it *could* in theory have been used that one night, but if that's the case scum can just win by themselves, no town help needed.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
And that you're the unlucky townie? Poor you. Look, if I were scum and knew that there was a hated townie, then my partner and I would just go around voting everyone up to two one at a time and there would be nothing town could do about it.
Well, town could quicklynch before something happens... but you got me afraid. Can we get this over with before I have to leave?
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But...is there any possibility there is town that is hated? faust acts like there is.
Yes, additional night, no mafia kill.
Yeah. This is good. Scum!lio would absolutely pretend like that wasn't a thing and try to get someone to "test" you with a chance they'd win the game right now with your mislynch. I'm really thinking lio is the scum out of you two now.
PPE: Maybe. They'd have to coordinate and quicklynch the right townie out of 3--possibly having to test all 3 and not get lynched before then.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
Hm.. I don't think that counts for Swamp Hag, because that "night" was just to select a new card. No Mafia Kill was possible at all; I don't think any night actions (including using Swamp Hag) would have been allowed either.
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If Lio is scum, he would have just not blown Swamp Hag.
There was this additional night without a mafia kill, remember? I'm afraid that this is when he used it.
And that you're the unlucky townie? Poor you. Look, if I were scum and knew that there was a hated townie, then my partner and I would just go around voting everyone up to two one at a time and there would be nothing town could do about it.
Well, town could quicklynch before something happens... but you got me afraid. Can we get this over with before I have to leave?
Heck, it's safe for you to self-vote and unvote in the same post if you're so townie.
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Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
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Um. How would that be safe?
You know, before anyone does anything else--we should get confirmation that abilities could have been used during the extra killess night.
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Well, lio is probably right, which means they blew their chance, which is reasonable with pit gone. That's a bit of a relief I guess.
IIRC, pit subbing out happened before N2 started, is that correct? Then everything would be fine.
Xerxes, could Swamp Hag have been used in that additional night? If so, would that result in a townie being hated?
-
Well let's try asking
Could abilities (i.e., PRs from cards we've already received) be used during the extra "Night" phase from Mission?
Also, check the exact wording of Swamp Hag.
PPE Faust asked~
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Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
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Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
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Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
But how would you know that faust was the townie to become hated?
-
Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
But how would you know that faust was the townie to become hated?
We could just vote for everyone, right? And if I don't know that faust is that townie, why is scum!me trying to get him tested? And why is town!faust fighting it so vehemently?
Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
How would it be unsuccessful?
-
Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
But how would you know that faust was the townie to become hated?
We could just vote for everyone, right? And if I don't know that faust is that townie, why is scum!me trying to get him tested? And why is town!faust fighting it so vehemently?
Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
How would it be unsuccessful?
Well yeah. If you and your partner were both on at the same time. You guys could daisy chain votes for everyone else I guess.
What does scum you have to lose in testing faust? It gives a guise over your plan and you maybe (waiting on confirmation) have a 1/3 chance of winning the game outright.
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Note if he's hated!town. We should figure out if that's possible.
IT'S NOT. If there is a hated town, scum wins no matter what. If I'm scum, I have a partner. They aren't voting for faust. Why, huh? Everyone in the game has been on in the last few hours.
It basically confirms Seprix as your partner, but also, you don't know that it's Faust that would be hated.
It would look pretty suspicious for you and someone else to just go double-voting everyone. Maybe XP could say you'd get your lynch through before we caught on and all three lynched one of you, but still not enough to call and endgame.
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Well, lio is probably right, which means they blew their chance, which is reasonable with pit gone. That's a bit of a relief I guess.
IIRC, pit subbing out happened before N2 started, is that correct? Then everything would be fine.
Xerxes, could Swamp Hag have been used in that additional night? If so, would that result in a townie being hated?
Checked back, and apparently pit left sometime during N2. So anything could be possible. I guess also his partner might have issued the order for him.
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Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
How would it be unsuccessful?
[/quote]
If you used it N2, it's possible that one of the players who died in the meantime got hated.
-
Quote fail. You get waht I mean.
-
Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
How would it be unsuccessful?
If you used it N2, it's possible that one of the players who died in the meantime got hated.
[/quote]
Anyway, this is important. lio is ignoring that in order to look more townie.
-
No, XP wouldn't end the game, but my partner and I could easily get everyone within 15 minutes. All three of the other townies would have to be on, catch on to what's happening, and all vote for one of us in that timespan. That clearly isn't happening.
Because it would out them as scum if unsuccessful.
How would it be unsuccessful?
If you used it N2, it's possible that one of the players who died in the meantime got hated.
[/quote]
Oh.
-
So. Wasn't there a card picked in the lio/WW qt?
-
Well, would they have flipped with the hated? And they would have had to be the NK, because they would have been lynched with fewer votes. So it would have to be ashersky? Unlikely.
-
So. Wasn't there a card picked in the lio/WW qt?
Ashersky was in our QT too. I voted for a card, ww didn't vote, and ashersky voted for no card. I think that the card actually did get chosen, but it is super irrelevant as far as I can see.
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Well, would they have flipped with the hated? And they would have had to be the NK, because they would have been lynched with fewer votes. So it would have to be ashersky? Unlikely.
The chance is 25%. 25% chance to immediately lose the game is not insignificant.
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So. Wasn't there a card picked in the lio/WW qt?
Ashersky was in our QT too. I voted for a card, ww didn't vote, and ashersky voted for no card. I think that the card actually did get chosen, but it is super irrelevant as far as I can see.
But you still aren't going to tell us what it was?
-
I think we can say what it was.
The card was Seaway, a 2-shot Cop with a 30% chance of being insane. Additionally, all card voting is hereafter done through PMs.
I'm not a fan, really.
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So. Wasn't there a card picked in the lio/WW qt?
Ashersky was in our QT too. I voted for a card, ww didn't vote, and ashersky voted for no card. I think that the card actually did get chosen, but it is super irrelevant as far as I can see.
But you still aren't going to tell us what it was?
Eh, sure, doesn't matter. It's called Seaway. Some random person is now a 2-shot cop that is insane 30% of the time (when insane they get the wrong result). Oh and our QT now has to vote for cards via PM instead of in the QT. But I don't think they were allowed to use it last night.
PPE: yeah.
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Oh yeah. Guess that is pretty unhelpful right now. Faust and I (and Seprix who never does anything in the qt) didn't buy anything.
-
Interesting. Can someone confirm to have received that?
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Interesting. Can someone confirm to have received that?
Why?
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Interesting. Can someone confirm to have received that?
Why?
Because if the scum team is you/lio, then you might not tell the truth about what happened in your QT.
-
Because, why? There was some super scummy card that we could have chosen?
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So. Wasn't there a card picked in the lio/WW qt?
Ashersky was in our QT too. I voted for a card, ww didn't vote, and ashersky voted for no card. I think that the card actually did get chosen, but it is super irrelevant as far as I can see.
And anyway with the way Xerxes does vote counts, I'm not exactly sure we didn't already lynch a hated person.
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Interesting. Can someone confirm to have received that?
Why?
Because if the scum team is you/lio, then you might not tell the truth about what happened in your QT.
Yeah, what a smart move that would be. But sure, go ahead. I didn't get it, ichi clearly didn't either, and you are at least claiming not to have it. WW and Seprix?
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Because, why? There was some super scummy card that we could have chosen?
Maybe. Or may you'd have preferred to choose no card. I'm just trying to cover all bases here. And it's not like that role is going to be of much use anyway.
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Well, we didn't have to choose a card, and I'm not certain we did. We discussed the three options, why they were good/not good. Lio had put in a vote for Seaway while neither Ash or I were voting, XP came in kind of early and said that Seaway was chosen. He said we could still change it, though I missed that part of his message. The thread was unlocked before I went back to the QT and saw more, but after the confirmation and before the unlock, Ash voted for No Card. There was no other confirmation from XP, so I'm assuming his last statement that Seaway was chosen stands.
-
I have to leave. Vote: lio in case you need to quickhammer.
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So is somebody going to test faust or are we going to continue to be as paranoid as we possibly can?
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I see no reason not to wait for mod confirmation. Why rush when we can play it safe?
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I see no reason not to wait for mod confirmation. Why rush when we can play it safe?
I mean, the answer is probably yes, they could have used the Swamp Hag. Roles were allowed to be used, and scum didn't kill, so...
But scum does not have the swamp hag.
-
I see no reason not to wait for mod confirmation. Why rush when we can play it safe?
I mean, the answer is probably yes, they could have used the Swamp Hag. Roles were allowed to be used, and scum didn't kill, so...
But scum does not have the swamp hag.
So you say...
-
I messed something up. (again)
Ashersky, who flipped Page, ought to have also flipped as Seaway.
-
And what about our questions?
-
And what about our questions?
srysly XP, you are delaying my inevitable scum victory when someone tests faust, hurry up. /sarcasm
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ftr my mind isn't made up yet. I still want to reread faust. I'm almost positive Seprix is scum though.
-
Well let's try asking
Could abilities (i.e., PRs from cards we've already received) be used during the extra "Night" phase from Mission?
Also, check the exact wording of Swamp Hag.
PPE Faust asked~
Yes
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Vote Count 4.1
Faust: Liopoil
Liopoil: Faust
Not voting: WW, Seprix, IG
5 alive, takes 3 to lynch
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Ok. We have confirmation that Swamp Hag could have been used by scum with basically a 100% chance of creating a hated town. As such, we shouldn't "test" anyone that we wouldn't totally want to lynch today.
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I'll try to reread. That may not happen for 2 days though, I'm rather busy right now.
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Ok. We have confirmation that Swamp Hag could have been used by scum with basically a 100% chance of creating a hated town. As such, we shouldn't "test" anyone that we wouldn't totally want to lynch today.
This is just absurd. I was not in the game on N2! I COULD NOT have used it then! And neither could pit, because he was absent! Here is a list of all the things that would need to happen for testing faust to loose the game:
1) I am scum
2) I used the swamp hag on the second N2 without being in the game, OR pit did while being replaced for inactivity, OR my scumbuddy did.
3) My partner and I are for some reason not testing faust and everyone else ourselves right now so that we can win the game instantly with 3/4 probability.
4) Faust is the unlucky hated townie, a 1/4 chance even given the other two.
SUPER unlikely!! Meanwhile, here's what needs to happen for testing faust to lynch scum!faust and make me IC, essentially winning us the game:
1) I am town
2) Faust is the lucky hated scum, a 1/2 chance.
Even if you don't know I am town, these are still decent odds! In all other cases, nothing happens. So testing faust is absolutely in our best interests.
However I agree we should not test anyone else, because the odds are not nearly as much in our favor and there is a significant risk of a scum quickhammer.
-
Night 2 had an "extra night", though, because we chose Mission. I'm pretty sure you subbed in during that time, right?
-
We could also lynch Seprix.
-
Yeah...I considered that. Cause he feels like obvscum. At the same time, if we lynch his partner today he (in all likelihood) can't NK people. But...if we get it wrong between faust/lio then it's game over. Maybe lynching Seprix is the safest bet.
-
Of note:
I'm kind of sold on town!Faust right now.
Earlier reads (he included everyone) list gave Faust Day 1 Pass for towniness and Pit a suspect for not posting. Library got a Day 1 pass for being new.
You probably don't take both your partners off your "Day 1 Willing to Lynch" list, so this points towards Faust not being Seprix's partner.
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Hmm:
I don't agree with the IG votes, i think Seprix looks way scummier right now.
Vote: Seprix
Vote Count 1.3
Silverspawn (1): Awaclus
greyICE (1): Jimmmmm
Seprix (3): IG, Hydrad, LibraryAdventurer (L-3)
IG (4): Silverspawn, GreyICE, Seprix, Faust (L-2)
Pit (2): Awaclus, Faust
Awaclus(2): Pit, witherweaver
Not voting:
A person needs 6 votes to be lynched.
Day 1 ends April 18th at 6:30 Pacific Time.
Awaclus and faust both voting twice.
Not the strongest evidence towards Pit/Lio and Seprix partners.
-
We could also lynch Seprix.
I don't like this, especially coming from ww.
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Yeah...increasingly I'm wondering whether WW is one of the remaining scum. I'm actually heavily considering faust/WW right now.
-
Wrong, think about it logically (as me). One of Faust/Lio must be scum. Remaining one has to be Ichi or Seprix. Ichi is pretty likely not the scum here, therefore Seprix has to be scum. Therefore interactions with Seprix regarding Faust and Lio can indicate which of Faust and Lio is his partner.
I can (hopefully will) do a similar exercise with Ichi, but it's not the priority.
As for actually lynching Seprix first, well, there isn't really a point. Whether we choose Faust/Lio today or tomorrow, we still have to choose correctly or lose.
I also wanted to see how people would react to the idea; I probably should have waited for Faust, but oh well.
-
Don't like WW here. So it's Faust/Lio and WW. Great to know. We win if we get the Faust/Lio thing right.
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Don't like WW here. So it's Faust/Lio and WW. Great to know. We win if we get the Faust/Lio thing right.
Which one of Faust/Lio is scum?
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Don't like WW here. So it's Faust/Lio and WW. Great to know. We win if we get the Faust/Lio thing right.
Which one of Faust/Lio is scum?
That's a fantastic question.
-
So answer it.
-
Liopoil.
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Wrong, think about it logically (as me). One of Faust/Lio must be scum. Remaining one has to be Ichi or Seprix. Ichi is pretty likely not the scum here, therefore Seprix has to be scum. Therefore interactions with Seprix regarding Faust and Lio can indicate which of Faust and Lio is his partner.
I can (hopefully will) do a similar exercise with Ichi, but it's not the priority.
As for actually lynching Seprix first, well, there isn't really a point. Whether we choose Faust/Lio today or tomorrow, we still have to choose correctly or lose.
I also wanted to see how people would react to the idea; I probably should have waited for Faust, but oh well.
Sure, there's sort of a town narrative for you to bring it up, but since the rest of us don't know you're town I don't think we should lynch Seprix today. Faust first.
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Wrong, think about it logically (as me). One of Faust/Lio must be scum. Remaining one has to be Ichi or Seprix. Ichi is pretty likely not the scum here, therefore Seprix has to be scum. Therefore interactions with Seprix regarding Faust and Lio can indicate which of Faust and Lio is his partner.
I can (hopefully will) do a similar exercise with Ichi, but it's not the priority.
As for actually lynching Seprix first, well, there isn't really a point. Whether we choose Faust/Lio today or tomorrow, we still have to choose correctly or lose.
I also wanted to see how people would react to the idea; I probably should have waited for Faust, but oh well.
Sure, there's sort of a town narrative for you to bring it up, but since the rest of us don't know you're town I don't think we should lynch Seprix today. Faust first.
Liopoil for sure.
vote: Liopoil
-
I'm not scum
-
Whoah. This is dangerous. it could be faust/Seprix.
If Seprix doesn't unvote right now...
-
Okay, so either Lio is scum or it's confirmed Faust/Seprix.
-
So Seprix, why would scum!lio prefer lynching faust over you today if you're both town--and you're kind of the easier lynch at this point?
PPE: damn. This is close. Maybe we should lynch Seprix right now.
-
Lio was Pit, and I had a scum read on him all game, so it makes sense for me.
unvote
But if you want to talk, sure.
-
It's not possible for lio to be hated, right?
-
So Seprix, why would scum!lio prefer lynching faust over you today if you're both town--and you're kind of the easier lynch at this point?
PPE: damn. This is close. Maybe we should lynch Seprix right now.
It's easy to explain away this trite fact. I'm an easy lynch. You're edging away from me at the moment, so Lio has one option left. Faust.
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Um.. Lio hated as town mean he blew Swamp Hag and scum did not kill, but he said he used it last night and they did kill, so no. Lio hated as scum is basically impossible unless he just messed up.
-
Damn it. I feel like this should be simpler than it is. I do not want to throw this game. I have to go, but when I come back, I'm going to reread LA.
PPE: good.
-
I'm not scum
Whew. I believe it, ww would have hammered. So it's either faust/seprix like I thought or faust/ichi, but really it's just faust/seprix. Not sure why Seprix did that though...
-
Ichi would have hammered too...
-
Ichi would have hammered too...
Oh right, for some reason I thought seprix unvoted before ichi made it clear he knew what was going on.
Vote: Seprix then.
-
Sigh, okay let's think.
If Lio is town: Faust is scum, Seprix is conf!scum (Ichi and I both didn't hammer). No danger in voting Seprix here.
If Lio is scum: Faust is town, I'm town, Lio's partner must be Ichi or Seprix. If Ichi is partner, then Seprix still can't be quickhammered (with no hated).
I think the most likely scenario is Lio/Seprix and they're giving us some runaround with these votes.
-
Welp. lio going for towncred here obviously by trying to lynch his partner. And boy can he need all the towncred he can get. More thoughts tomorrow.
-
Hey, now we can test Seprix too!
-
Don't test me. Someone will hammer, and that's game.
-
I'm 100% sure Ichi is town.
Everyone else is scummy to me. So based on my read, it's Lio and either Faust or WW. God, this is so difficult...
-
.......
-
No time for second guessing.
Liopoil and WW it is.
-
I'll do the work of you pretending to be town for you.
If Lio were town, with both you and Faust voting for him, either me or Ichi as scum would have quickhammered for the win. We did not, and therefore we both must be town. So Ichi, Lio, and me are all town, making the scum team Faust and yo.. oh wait, you don't want to argue that.
Maybe you should think you're town, so that Lio must be scum. Then his partner must be me or Ichi. Good luck with that.
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I'll do the work of you pretending to be town for you.
If Lio were town, with both you and Faust voting for him, either me or Ichi as scum would have quickhammered for the win. We did not, and therefore we both must be town. So Ichi, Lio, and me are all town, making the scum team Faust and yo.. oh wait, you don't want to argue that.
Maybe you should think you're town, so that Lio must be scum. Then his partner must be me or Ichi. Good luck with that.
Actually, I can make the argument you didn't want to vote because you knew everyone was watching. What if someone unvoted? Then you'd be f***ed.
-
Also, someone may have been typing up the quickhammer, and then got blocked just in time because I unvoted.
OR...
Liopoil is freaking scum. Duh. No one is going to quickhammer him.
-
Okay this is just all too obvious now.
-
Okay this is just all too obvious now.
It certainly is.
vote: Liopoil
All or nothing. gogogogogogogogogogo
-
There were plenty of posts from me and Ichi before you unvoted.
-
There were plenty of posts from me and Ichi before you unvoted.
Which proves my point even further. Lio is scum. No one quickhammered.
-
fuck seprix just tried to quickhammer lio. Let's lynch Seprix.
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Okay this is just all too obvious now.
It's obvious that he's scum, but it's hard for me to figure out if he's trying to "save you" as his partner or not.
-
...
Maybe my town read isn't a town read.
-
Seprix is obvscum trying to wreak havoc with this game. vote: Seprix we can figure out his partner later.
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Screw it, just hammer me, this is too frustrating. Nobody is ever going to believe me and lynch faust, let alone even test him. Town doesn't deserve to win this.
PPE: Or we could lynch seprix, whatever. I don't think anyone is ever going to believe me over faust though.
-
Why not figure out his partner today?
-
You are ALL wrong about me. I'm not scum. Lynching me loses the game. Get your head in the game, already. If we don't get this right, it's over. Liopoil IS SCUM. There's nothing else out there that matters right now.
-
Why not figure out his partner today?
maybe we get helpful cards?
-
We lose just as much tomorrow if we pick wrong as we do if we pick wrong today.
-
Why not figure out his partner today?
This is seriously freaking me out. We're in total quickhammer territory. I feel like every moment this day goes on, it's more dangerous.
PPE: 1
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If you're scared of quickhammer, then why are you voting...?
-
Come on. Lynch me or Liopoil. I can guarantee you, this is a 50/50 shot. He or me. Come on. End the game already, or lynch Lio.
-
If you're scared of quickhammer, then why are you voting...?
Because I feel 100% positive Seprix is scum ergo he is not in danger of being quickhammered.
-
Why not figure out his partner today?
This is seriously freaking me out. We're in total quickhammer territory. I feel like every moment this day goes on, it's more dangerous.
PPE: 1
I mean, not really. The scumteam is faust/seprix. I know this, yet all everyone can talk about is how it's lio/seprix. Tell me how anything we've done today makes any sense as a team.
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Come on. Lynch me or Liopoil. I can guarantee you, this is a 50/50 shot. He or me. Come on. End the game already, or lynch Lio.
No. 50/50 would be faust and lio.
-
If you're scared of quickhammer, then why are you voting...?
Man, I don't even know what to think. There's so much WIFOM. I'm going to stick with my guns. No one is voting Lio. And no one is voting me, which means both scum are voting me!?
-
Why not figure out his partner today?
Why not figure it out tomorrow?
-
Noooooo...
IG is scum? Okay, so IG and Lio then. Got it.
-
Right now it is 2-2 on seprix/lio, WW is the only one not voting. At this point I don't really care who gets lynched though. Seprix and I are obviously going to be the two lynches today and tomorrow, whether we lose now or later doesn't matter to me.
-
Noooooo...
IG is scum? Okay, so IG and Lio then. Got it.
You're acting crazy. We need to lynch you.
-
Wait so now WW is super-duper IC since he isn't hammering.
-
WW must be town, or we'd lose already. Lio/Me is town, according to claims. This means WW is auto-town.
Sorry for accusing you WW.
-
Wait so now WW is super-duper IC since he isn't hammering.
As in he can't be scumbuddies with both me AND Seprix.
Also WW hurry up and hammer seprix.
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Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
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Okay, since NO ONE IS HAMMERING ME...
It's obvious scum is Ichi/Lio. Think about it. Why NOT take the free win here? No risk.
Of course, I could be scum. No one is voting for Liopoil either. WW, you HAVE to trust me.
-
Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
No of course not. Seprix is 100% conf!scum.
-
Why do we even need to hammer Seprix? What does that gain us, at all? I don't buy the card thing argument; scum can easily get a benefit too.
-
Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
No of course not. Seprix is 100% conf!scum.
Says scum.
So scum teams... If I'm scum, it's likely Seprix/IG. If it's not me, it's Liopoil/IG.
IG is the common denominator.
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Okay, since NO ONE IS HAMMERING ME...
It's obvious scum is Ichi/Lio. Think about it. Why NOT take the free win here? No risk.
Of course, I could be scum. No one is voting for Liopoil either. WW, you HAVE to trust me.
Oh my god. This craziness. Please hammer WW.
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Why do we even need to hammer Seprix? What does that gain us, at all? I don't buy the card thing argument; scum can easily get a benefit too.
Sure, it doesn't matter. But who knows, maybe we have PRs. Also procrastinating on big decisions is good. Also we get to LYNCH SCUM, and that's the goal of the game right?
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Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
No of course not. Seprix is 100% conf!scum.
Says scum.
So scum teams... If I'm scum, it's likely Seprix/IG. If it's not me, it's Liopoil/IG.
IG is the common denominator.
WHAT THE FUCK! One of faust/lio has to be scum NO MATTER WHAT!
-
Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
No of course not. Seprix is 100% conf!scum.
Only 99.5%; there's an offshot that it's you/Ichi, and none of these scenarios confirms that it can't be the case.
-
Maybe WW is scum...but that's impossible cause then he'd just hammer town!Seprix for the win.
-
But Seprix is only at one vote right now? Maybe not. Or is lio voting Seprix?
-
Lio is voting Seprix.
-
Faust/Ichi is not possible, right? Because then Lio is town, so Ichi could have quickhammered when Seprix voted Lio.
No of course not. Seprix is 100% conf!scum.
Only 99.5%; there's an offshot that it's you/Ichi, and none of these scenarios confirms that it can't be the case.
Oh, alright.
By the way, seprix is at L-1, so there's a 50-50 chance that the day just ends now with dead scum!seprix.
But Seprix is only at one vote right now? Maybe not. Or is lio voting Seprix?
I am voting seprix.
-
Maybe WW is scum...but that's impossible cause then he'd just hammer town!Seprix for the win.
Yeah.
I know I act scummy. I don't know how to not look scummy. I really don't know.
It seems the common denominator is either Seprix/Lio or IG/Lio, actually. I made a mistake with IG. But hell, it was funny watching his reaction XD
-
Lio is voting Seprix.
Ok. Then it's impossible for you to be scum. It's also impossible for me to be scum since I can't be partners with Seprix.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
No one is going to vote for me, because scum is already voting for me. Don't be silly.
And Faust is not online, but I would imagine he is innocent at this point.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
I mean, yeah, but it doesn't matter. He's at L-1, so the lynch went through if the lynch went through. Nothing can change that now.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
No IG don't you remember? We're scumbuddies!
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
You're only technically an IC if Lio is town. The Lio/IG scenario cannot be entirely ruled out based on just this evidence.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
How the hell are you an IC? You can't just elect yourself IC!
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You can probably tell how much these sorts of situations play on my nerves :D. We've lynched scum or are lynching scum today though. I think we've got this.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
I mean, yeah, but it doesn't matter. He's at L-1, so the lynch went through if the lynch went through. Nothing can change that now.
No, but it helps us to know if he was lynched with 2 or 3 votes. If 2 votes, then you really did use Swamp Hag, and did you do that as scum and also kill as scum? Probably not.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
How the hell are you an IC? You can't just elect yourself IC!
You aren't being serious. If I were scum, I would hammer you right now and win the game.
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Lynch Lio, WW. If Liopoil isn't scum, that's game. If Liopoil IS scum, we pretty much win.
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You're already voting for him, IG.
-
OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
How the hell are you an IC? You can't just elect yourself IC!
You aren't being serious. If I were scum, I would hammer you right now and win the game.
You're voting for me right now!!!!!!!!!!
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OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
How the hell are you an IC? You can't just elect yourself IC!
You aren't being serious. If I were scum, I would hammer you right now and win the game.
Oh wait...fuck. Did I mess up somewhere in there. Is WW actually not an IC either? No he is I guess.
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Seprix is obvscum trying to wreak havoc with this game. vote: Seprix we can figure out his partner later.
PROOF
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Okay, there are literally only three possible scumteams, from a neutral perspective:
Ichi-lio
lio-seprix
seprix-faust
I know that it's Seprix-faust. Seprix 'knows' that it's ichi-lio. Ichi knows that Seprix is scum. Faust 'knows' that I am scum. WW knows nothing!
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OH WAIT.
Can we get a vote count?
NO ONE vote Seprix.
If Seprix dies at L-1 that's strong evidence for town!Lio.
Ooh. Good idea. I don't think faust is on right now.
It is between Seprix/faust and Seprix/lio.
WW is an IC and I'm an IC.
How the hell are you an IC? You can't just elect yourself IC!
You aren't being serious. If I were scum, I would hammer you right now and win the game.
Oh wait...fuck. Did I mess up somewhere in there. Is WW actually not an IC either? No he is I guess.
LIAAAAAAAR
Town wins! Scumslip FTW
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OMFG. WW, can you please just hammer Seprix? It is superior to put off the more difficult and risky decision than try to call the game right now.
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No, if it's me/Faust or me/Lio, I would hammer Seprix right now.
If it were IG/Faust, Ichi would have hammered Lio. Same thing doesn't apply to IG/Lio, because both are already voting for Seprix, so IG never had a chance to hammer Seprix.
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WW is an IC. There is technically the possibility of it being Ichi/lio--I missed that. Seprix is just...I don't even have a word for this. He is the most obvious scum ever. How can you let this go on WW?
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No, I'm not going to hammer Seprix. Certainly not without a vote count, and even so, there is no point.
WW is an IC. There is technically the possibility of it being Ichi/lio--I missed that. Seprix is just...I don't even have a word for this. He is the most obvious scum ever. How can you let this go on WW?
Because it doesn't need to end. There's no benefit there.
-
Meanwhile Ichi is the most obvious town ever without actually being confirmed.
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WW is an IC. There is technically the possibility of it being Ichi/lio--I missed that. Seprix is just...I don't even have a word for this. He is the most obvious scum ever. How can you let this go on WW?
I don't care how scummy I look, I know the scum team now. Whew, that was a tough one... Puzzle solved thankfully.
Meanwhile Ichi is the most obvious town ever without actually being confirmed.
Well, I don't know why you'd say this, since you're scumbuddies.
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No, I'm not going to hammer Seprix. Certainly not without a vote count, and even so, there is no point.
WW is an IC. There is technically the possibility of it being Ichi/lio--I missed that. Seprix is just...I don't even have a word for this. He is the most obvious scum ever. How can you let this go on WW?
Because it doesn't need to end. There's no benefit there.
Ok. I'm trying to calm down. What you are saying is that you want to lynch out of faust/lio today instead of obvscum!Seprix?
Oh yeah. And there was the testing Seprix being hated. Nevermind. Him spamming the thread is just ugh. Actually, he's probably trying to get himself hammered on purpose so there's WIFOM between faust/lio tomorrow. You're right WW.
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Oh yeah. And there was the testing Seprix being hated. Nevermind. Him spamming the thread is just ugh. Actually, he's probably trying to get himself hammered on purpose so there's WIFOM between faust/lio tomorrow. You're right WW.
Why would I do that?
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Oh yeah. And there was the testing Seprix being hated. Nevermind. Him spamming the thread is just ugh. Actually, he's probably trying to get himself hammered on purpose so there's WIFOM between faust/lio tomorrow. You're right WW.
Why would I do that?
It's obvious. If you are hated scum, lio is confirmed town if you die with only 2 votes on you, and we lynch your partner faust tomorrow.
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Either Seprix/Liopoil or IG/Liopoil. Nothing else makes sense. And why would scum vote for each other? IG/Liopoil makes loads more sense.
Oh yeah. And there was the testing Seprix being hated. Nevermind. Him spamming the thread is just ugh. Actually, he's probably trying to get himself hammered on purpose so there's WIFOM between faust/lio tomorrow. You're right WW.
Why would I do that?
It's obvious. If you are hated scum, lio is confirmed town if you die with only 2 votes on you, and we lynch your partner faust tomorrow.
Then do it! Can't wait to be confirmed town!
-
Seprix/Faust is more credible than Seprix/Liopoil, I'll give you that.
-
Great. I know I'm town, so IG/liopoil is out--which leaves you as scum. faust could still totally be your partner though.
-
Seprix/Faust is more credible than Seprix/Liopoil, I'll give you that.
If everyone believed this, there would be hope for this game yet!
Oh, and I guess we do have a 50% chance of winning it right now if Seprix gets hated-lynched. Hey, things look okay again!
-
From my point of view, Seprix is confirmed scum. So, I guess we just wait for the mod to post a vote count/flip now.
PPE: yay!
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I suppose it doesn't matter, but you might as well unvote.
-
Okay, WW.
If Seprix is scum, then Seprix's scum partners are Faust, Liopoil, or IG. It can't likely be Liopoil or IG, since they are BOTH voting for Seprix. So Seprix's scum partner must likely be Faust. If Faust is innocent, then Seprix is easily town.
If IG is scum, he has Faust, Liopoil, and Seprix. Seprix is out of the question, due to bussing. That leaves Liopoil and Faust.
If Faust is scum, his partner could be anybody.
And things aren't looking great for Liopoil no matter how you dice it.
-
Except...what if Seprix isn't hated scum?
If faust votes him, we know he's Seprix's partner. Either way, I think we're good.
-
Okay, WW.
If Seprix is scum, then Seprix's scum partners are Faust, Liopoil, or IG. It can't likely be Liopoil or IG, since they are BOTH voting for Seprix. So Seprix's scum partner must likely be Faust. If Faust is innocent, then Seprix is easily town.
If IG is scum, he has Faust, Liopoil, and Seprix. Seprix is out of the question, due to bussing. That leaves Liopoil and Faust.
If Faust is scum, his partner could be anybody.
And things aren't looking great for Liopoil no matter how you dice it.
Yeah scum!lio is very sad right now.
-
Okay, WW.
If Seprix is scum, then Seprix's scum partners are Faust, Liopoil, or IG. It can't likely be Liopoil or IG, since they are BOTH voting for Seprix. So Seprix's scum partner must likely be Faust. If Faust is innocent, then Seprix is easily town.
If IG is scum, he has Faust, Liopoil, and Seprix. Seprix is out of the question, due to bussing. That leaves Liopoil and Faust.
If Faust is scum, his partner could be anybody.
And things aren't looking great for Liopoil no matter how you dice it.
No. It's impossible for you and I to be partners. You're forgetting that one of faust/lio has to be scum.
-
Okay, WW.
If Seprix is scum, then Seprix's scum partners are Faust, Liopoil, or IG. It can't likely be Liopoil or IG, since they are BOTH voting for Seprix. So Seprix's scum partner must likely be Faust. If Faust is innocent, then Seprix is easily town.
If IG is scum, he has Faust, Liopoil, and Seprix. Seprix is out of the question, due to bussing. That leaves Liopoil and Faust.
If Faust is scum, his partner could be anybody.
And things aren't looking great for Liopoil no matter how you dice it.
No. It's impossible for you and I to be partners. You're forgetting that one of faust/lio has to be scum.
I said that, though. I said Seprix was out of the question. :D
So the key here is Faust. And Lio looks a lot worse than Faust, so...
-
Okay, there are literally only three possible scumteams, from a neutral perspective:
Ichi-lio
lio-seprix
seprix-faust
I know that it's Seprix-faust. Seprix 'knows' that it's ichi-lio. Ichi knows that Seprix is scum. Faust 'knows' that I am scum. WW knows nothing!
Reposting this. Not that complicated, really...
-
No. You got it wrong. I could still be totally bussing you here. Us being partners is an impossibility to begin with.
-
No. You got it wrong. I could still be totally bussing you here. Us being partners is an impossibility to begin with.
Why?
-
No. You got it wrong. I could still be totally bussing you here. Us being partners is an impossibility to begin with.
Why?
I'm not going to engage with you further. You're caught scum who knows they are going to die no matter what, and now you're just having fun!
-
And why is Liopoil/Faust impossible too?
No. You got it wrong. I could still be totally bussing you here. Us being partners is an impossibility to begin with.
Why?
I'm not going to engage with you further. You're caught scum who knows they are going to die no matter what, and now you're just having fun!
Answer the question.
-
Okay, there are literally only three possible scumteams, from a neutral perspective:
Ichi-lio
lio-seprix
seprix-faust
I know that it's Seprix-faust. Seprix 'knows' that it's ichi-lio. Ichi knows that Seprix is scum. Faust 'knows' that I am scum. WW knows nothing!
Reposting this. Not that complicated, really...
So, really, this puts everyone back to where I was at the start of today, which is: we should choose between Faust/Lio based on likelihood partnership with Seprix.
-
You can't tell me what to do :P
It is in plain sight for you scum.
-
Also, how does Hated stuff work? It's where is you're scum at L-1, and no one hammers you at the end of the day, you die, right?
-
Why can't we all just be town...
Also, how does Hated stuff work? It's where is you're scum at L-1, and no one hammers you at the end of the day, you die, right?
lol.
-
This is hilarious. All of the caught scum have been hilarious this game. I couldn't believe how terrible LA's argument was that he tried to push against me.
WW. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards faust being Seprix's partner.
-
i've been playing this game without getting what any of the cards do. Lol. I should have died a long time ago, someone else would have been more useful.
-
This is hilarious. All of the caught scum have been hilarious this game. I couldn't believe how terrible LA's argument was that he tried to push against me.
WW. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards faust being Seprix's partner.
You can't catch me as scum if I'm town. :)
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This is hilarious. All of the caught scum have been hilarious this game. I couldn't believe how terrible LA's argument was that he tried to push against me.
WW. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards faust being Seprix's partner.
YAY! Hey Seprix, we might win this one after all!
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This is hilarious. All of the caught scum have been hilarious this game. I couldn't believe how terrible LA's argument was that he tried to push against me.
WW. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards faust being Seprix's partner.
I'm thinking this as well. I thought Seprix would have known he was caught back in the beginning and was voting Lio in order to give towncred (or at least WIFOM), but he doesn't seem to have been aware with all the implications.
-
Also. At the beginning of the day where faust told us he used a fake name in the neighborhood with lio--that makes loads more sense as scum than town. faust is the one who made the decision to go all or nothing today. He's done it before as scum.
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This is hilarious. All of the caught scum have been hilarious this game. I couldn't believe how terrible LA's argument was that he tried to push against me.
WW. At this point, I am heavily leaning towards faust being Seprix's partner.
YAY! Hey Seprix, we might win this one after all!
Did you just confess to being scum? Lol...
I think we're all burned out.
Seriously, how does the Hated stuff work? I don't want to push a lynch if I don't have to.
-
Wait, nononononononononnonononoNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DON'T DO IT WW
My ghost will blame you.
-
Wait.
This brings us full circle.
Here's another question, WITH the Hated question.
Why is Lio/Faust scum team impossible?
-
Don't worry Seprix. WW won't hammer you. We're going to extract every possible delicious ounce of information out of your near-corpse before the final blow.
-
Seprix just stop trying, please... it's just getting worse.
-
Lol. I'm not scared. Your Hated tactics won't work, because guess what!? I'M NOT SCUM!!!!!!!
Someone behind the monitor is VERY afraid... Hahahaha... When everyone realizes I'm not scum... It will be so obvious...
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-USAB530A
Here... Let's all take a relaxing break, eh? :)
-
Vote Count 4.2
Seprix: Ichimaru Gin, Liopoil
Liopoil: Seprix, Faust
Not Voting: Witherweaver
With 5 alive, 3 are needed for a lynch.
-
Ugh :(
-
So. Seprix is not hated. I still think we should lynch him today.
-
Assuming it's faust/Seprix, there was a 50/50 chance of Seprix being the one who was hated. So this doesn't mean much to me about lio's alignment. Maybe we should still wait until faust is back though?
-
Contrawise, if lio is scum,there could be a hated town out there instead--so that complicates things.
-
Reread of LibraryAdventurer. This is kind of a general reread--but of course the focus is on his potential partners.
D1:
#52 He puts an RVS vote on faust (RVS votes on partners seems pretty good). And this seems to be the start of him acting like D1 is completely useless.
#58 Reacts suspiciously to me saying I know a bit about his mafia history because of a thread he had made about it.
#61 Backtracks on the entirety of D1 being completely "random"
#75 He believes Jimmmmm's townslip but kind of downplays it
fluff
#175 easy vote on Awaclus
#186 Casting suspicion on Awaclus
#226 Keeps pushing Awaclus
#298 Top scumreads are Awaclus and Hydrad--both confirmed town. Interesting. I wonder if this points to an overall larger strategy of not suspecting his partners? I'd expect at least one partner in there with his scumreads.
#353 Seriously. Fuck this post. Was he even voting me at the time? I can't find it. Anyway, after all this, he shifts his vote to Seprix.
#401 Trying to escape responsibility for lurking.
so much fluff...
#544 Ah, the infamous attack on me because I asked to claim. He says he was "happy" with his vote on Seprix but "It doesn't look like that's happening now".
fluff
#572 And...at the last minute he shifts his vote to Awaclus.
D2:
#616 Opens the day with a vote on me. Knowing that Seprix is scum now, I see a clear trend of scum being very pissy with me.
#625 Bullshit case against me.
#630 More pointless stuff.
#707 I see a pretty clear trend of LA trying to play up "how different forum mafia is from RL mafia". He uses it a lot to avoid responsibility.
--As an aside. Seprix agreed with LA's bullshit a bunch and also tried to push my lynch. We already knew he was scum but just wanted to point that out.
#764 xxpittip/lio calls him out for his dishonest arguments and how overly assured he seems about me being scum.
--And I'm embarrassed by me trying to give up OMGUS. When this game is over (and hopefully we win), it's a pretty good example of how scum finds me scummy for BS reasons as a way to keep me from finding them scummy.
#889 LA says he now finds Seprix most suspicious. He literally hasn't said a single word about why I'm no longer his top scumread.
#891 However, (this is notable) he immediately switches his vote to xxpittip/lio instead.
--And look. He's having some fun in the sun with his scumbud Seprix!
#953 And now he votes silverspawn. Also worth noting faust did say that he thought LA was scummy and wanted to lynch him today (with a noteable caveat (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488227#msg488227) )
And LA goes down shortly afterwards--but not without a final attempt at mocking me and his pathetic case against me! Final wagon is...oh I guess we're expected to figure that out for ourselves? I hammered him--and afterwards, both Seprix and xxpittip/lio voted after he was already dead. Seprix's voted is obviously a bid to grab towncred...xxpittip/lio's I'm not so sure of.
Also. Check out this little 3-post exchange starting here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12687.msg488407#msg488407). Pretty interesting if the scumteam is in fact LA/Seprix/faust.
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Then aren't you happy I'm voting for you? :)
Then aren't you happy I'm voting for you? :)
Ran across this. It's not a misquote either. It could just be subconscious, but I think it's funny considering they're scum together.
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Scummy posts from faust. I'm technically cherry-picking these--but together, I think they present a useful picture.
I don't feel scum!Seprix here, with his recent posts. Ichi, man, who knows. It's always so hard to get proper reads when people change their playstyle. In general, I don't like the "this case against me is good" statement. I mean, if I'm town, and someone makes a case against me which I have to acknowledge is good, then man I played terribly.
So let's do vote: Ichi.
Why is Seprix on the off list?
I think he was townie recently, and I don't like the wagon on him.
Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.
Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?
Seprix is obv!scum here.
Can't tell if serious...
Trying some PoE: I don't want to lynch silver and Seprix today, and possibly not Grey, even though he should post more. So that leaves pit, Ichi, LA, WW, Hydrad.
LA - I don't get the fuss about him. His explanation for pushing Ichi makes sense, it's just coming from a different perspective. I have an IRL group where VT claims are standard practice for PRs. I even know a guy who would always claim Cop. We treat things differently here, but from his point of view that makes sense.
So yeah. I'd prefer a lynch out of Hydrad/pit right now.
Vote: pit
yeah this is also not a good wagon, especially now with Seprix and LA on it. I'd much rather lynch Seprix today.
Why is Seprix scummy?
I'm flattered you think I'm town Faust, but why? Everyone else thinks I'm scum.
I don't know, you seem genuinely involved and give me a town feeling? I don't know why the others think you're scum.
LA's pseudo-hammer was fairly scummy I think. If I thought lynching today is good, I'd be voting him.
Well, okay then. I would prefer to no lynch today in order to fix things, but I might as well Vote: LA
Yeah.. can someone hammer already?
So. Rereading the earlier part of the thread, it makes me feel pretty scummy about faust--especially since we know Seprix is scum. However...faust does vote LA and ask for him to be hammered near the end--this could totally just be him bussing though. I'm going to keep mining the thread and see if I find anything else notable.
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Grey not posting is an issue.
<b>Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?</b>
Xerxes, could you inform us once Grey has been prodded?
Scumslip etc.
It's interesting that faust would default to the "Ha, I scumslipped!" thing--when we all know there are card qt's and such. This feels unnecessary.
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I think I can just say it: I believe Grey is the Page. If so, we absolutely don't want him lynched today so that he can use his pseudocop tonight.
Hmm.
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I don't remember the hammer, but yeah, that does look bad.
And this does look bad as well. I kind of want to vote Seprix for that, but I guess he deserves to be reread first.
faust does end up voting Seprix--and there is a time there where Seprix was very nearly hammered. Although I'm not sure if that was while faust was not around.
So I think Seprix is pretty scummy. Yet something happened in our QT that makes me think it would be better to not lynch him. Like, if Seprix is scum, lynching Seprix's partner >>>> lynching Seprix. Since Seprix claimed VT, I can just reveal:
Our QT made it so that every time Seprix targets a player, they are jaikept.
That means that scum!Seprix cannot perform kills.
Lynch Seprix's partner and we win. I think lio, Hydrad, Ichi makes the most viable partners, in that order. Since Hydrad much much scummier independently though, I prefer a Hydrad lynch.
Vote: Hydrad
This is a great scum narrative for why faust picked Seprix for Lost Arts. Not only can he use it to keep his partner alive for much longer than he should have lasted, but faust can also bus him later on and not lose as much. So he can push the Hydrad mislynch without looking too bad. I can see bold play like this coming from scum!faust--especially with how consistently townie people found him for almost the entire game. Plus--we don't know what cards or powers scum has. Maybe they had some way of preventing/undoing Seprix being affected by Lost Arts.
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That's all fine and dandy, but there's been so much talk, that I could make anybody look scummy by pulling up the right posts.
...And I'm not hated either. So those are points for me.
So are we lynching Liopoil yet?
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That's all fine and dandy, but there's been so much talk, that I could make anybody look scummy by pulling up the right posts.
...And I'm not hated either. So those are points for me.
So are we lynching Liopoil yet?
Such a cute little scum :D
You know that since I know I'm town, I know you're scum. Oh yes you do, but of course you won't let on.
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Also. Most recently in our qt--we had the option for a card that would give someone a doublevote. faust seemed very hedgy about it. To his credit, he did mention that maybe we shouldn't pick a card at all, but I feel like faust is normally much more decisive about these things. I wasn't particularly decisive either, but I did express how I thought giving someone a doublevote was too dangerous. I don't know, that may not be important, but I want as much information out there as possible.
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That's all fine and dandy, but there's been so much talk, that I could make anybody look scummy by pulling up the right posts.
...And I'm not hated either. So those are points for me.
So are we lynching Liopoil yet?
Nope, sounds like we are lynching your buddy!
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That's all fine and dandy, but there's been so much talk, that I could make anybody look scummy by pulling up the right posts.
...And I'm not hated either. So those are points for me.
So are we lynching Liopoil yet?
Such a cute little scum :D
You know that since I know I'm town, I know you're scum. Oh yes you do, but of course you won't let on.
You're getting real comfortable there buddy.
There IS room for Liopoil/Faust, since no one can tell me why that's an impossible lynch.
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I'd dump out QT info, but well.. I cleared my inbox. So I got nothing.
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Oh contraire.
I know you're just having fun, but I'll humor you. I guess it's possible that it's faust/lio and Ash didn't actually create a neighborhood and this is just an amazing idea they came up with that basically assures they will win the game.
But seriously, if that's the case, they more than deserve to win.
PPE: Um. No direct quotes please.
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lol. How awesome would that be if there was a neighborhood counterclaim in this game with 2 pairs of people both claiming to be put in a neighborhood together by the Page.
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Yeah. It's pretty WIFOM whether scum!Seprix defends or votes for his partner here. I have yet to reread lio in detail--although I did read pit.
This is just for when faust comes back, my mind is not yet made up. Maybe that's a bad thing, but I want to give faust a chance.
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Also. I see LA is watching the thread. I'm not trying to be overly harsh here. You actually did a pretty good job surviving and definitely left us with spare information. You actually had me fooled pretty good at the end with the "I'm town, I just don't like forum mafia" (which may even be true).
Just scum trying to get me mislynched is the thing that ticks me off most in this game ;)
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*sigh* ...
If you want a Faust Lynch...
Liopoil is 100% scum though.
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*sigh* ...
If you want a Faust Lynch...
Liopoil is 100% scum though.
Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine in front of meeeeeeeeeeeeee. Or is it in front of you?
Feel free to compliment my singing voice.
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*sigh* ...
If you want a Faust Lynch...
Liopoil is 100% scum though.
Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine in front of meeeeeeeeeeeeee. Or is it in front of you?
Feel free to compliment my singing voice.
Inconceivable.
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WILL TOWN WIN?
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Vote: Seprix
Thanks for waiting until I get up :P
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Seprix is lynched - twilight.
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?
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Yay twilight...
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it can't be Faust/Ichi or Faust/Lio right? Unless Ichi just missed the chance to hammer Lio
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Are there actions to be taken or something? Why no flip?
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Or gloating or something.
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Are there actions to be taken or something? Why no flip?
No clue what's going on. Likely XP just hasn't had time to get the flip together.
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it can't be Faust/Ichi or Faust/Lio right? Unless Ichi just missed the chance to hammer Lio
Dude. Don't worry. I had plenty of time to hammer lio if I had wanted to. I called Seprix's attempted quickhammer and made like 2 posts about it while lio was at L-1.
I guess there's the outside chance of faust/lio, like I said earlier?
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I don't think so.. I thought the Page thing was mandatory and guaranteed to have one scum/one town.
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I don't think so.. I thought the Page thing was mandatory and guaranteed to have one scum/one town.
Well if it's mandatory, then it's impossible for it to be faust/lio, right?
Also. Pretty sure faust showing up just to hammer with the tongue face was pretty much like "thanks for waiting and having me hammer my own partner...and I know I'm going down". Otherwise, I feel like he would have said more.
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Game Over
Seprix, lynched by Faust, IG, and Liopoil was town.
Mafia (LibraryAdventurer, Liopoil, and Faust) win!
QTs:
Speccy - http://quicktopic.com/51/H/jfh2GW3fTGFhm
Mafia QT - http://quicktopic.com/51/H/nBT4WReXuPn
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So how did that happen? Seems pretty misleading.
Good idea by Pit and Faust though.
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See Mafia QT for why Ash's power didn't go off.
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Faust had the Swamp Hag. We got a card called Gardens, which caused all roles on N3 to fail because over half of players alive had some sort of role. This included the Page QT. We knew that there would be no Page QT, so we took that opportunity to kill one of us and have the other win with ease. The plan was for you all to lynch me and then Seprix, but then Seprix went insane and ichi voted for him so that happened.
In fact all of Day 4 was really funny for us.
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Huh.
Not sure my sub was needed. Why'd you kill me?
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Also, this RMM is over, next RMM has started...so go sign up for Mistborn RMM!
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The only one who's getting IC status is me, at the end of the day.
Hilarious.
Yeah, so this was the plan.
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Faust had the Swamp Hag. We got a card called Gardens, which caused all roles on N3 to fail because over half of players alive had some sort of role. This included the Page QT. We knew that there would be no Page QT, so we took that opportunity to kill one of us and have the other win with ease. The plan was for you all to lynch me and then Seprix, but then Seprix went insane and ichi voted for him so that happened.
In fact all of Day 4 was really funny for us.
Well, alright. I don't really feel bad about this.
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Huh.
Not sure my sub was needed. Why'd you kill me?
We were fairly sure that you were the Page (because of your posts in the QT but even more the way GreyICE was acting, see somewhere in the mafia QT), and also you would likely be becoming IC. In fact we couldn't have done our plan if we hadn't killed the page.
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MVP to Faust for being continuously towny and pulling off the final plan without a hitch.
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Faust had the Swamp Hag. We got a card called Gardens, which caused all roles on N3 to fail because over half of players alive had some sort of role. This included the Page QT. We knew that there would be no Page QT, so we took that opportunity to kill one of us and have the other win with ease. The plan was for you all to lynch me and then Seprix, but then Seprix went insane and ichi voted for him so that happened.
In fact all of Day 4 was really funny for us.
Well, alright. I don't really feel bad about this.
Actually, nevermind, we weren't sure that there wouldn't be a page QT, but we verified with Daychat very quickly that neither of us got a link to a Page QT.
MVP to Faust for being continuously towny and pulling off the final plan without a hitch.
Yep. And if you read the posts in the mafia QT before my sub, he's like the only one even trying.
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Also, I'll be gone from Mafia for a while, as it turned more into a chore than a game for me. It's been great and I hope to be back soon.
Thanks to everyone and apologies for my lax modding this game.
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The game became a lot more fun/ny to watch after I was lynched. Oh, I would've made exactly the same case against Ichi if I was town, but like someone else pointed out, it's just a different perspective of the game.
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fuck.
phone posting, I'll have more to say when I get back home. I'm afraid of the speccy
you guys totally deserved to win.
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I KNEW FAUST WAS SCUM
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well played!
also nicely done LA, you managed to fool everyone into thinking you're town.
was your frustration with forum mafia also faked, or was that real?
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Man.
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Still phone posting. I feel like it was actually impossible for town to win here with the information we had. Even if we had lynched one of faust/lio, they still would have won.
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Still phone posting. I feel like it was actually impossible for town to win here with the information we had. Even if we had lynched one of faust/lio, they still would have won.
Yeah, the game was pretty much over once we realized that we could get away with the claim. The timing of the gardens and the death of the page was exactly perfect. So there was a good amount of luck involved for it to be possible, but we all also had to take advantage of the opportunity.
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That was a really cool ending.
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well played!
also nicely done LA, you managed to fool everyone into thinking you're town.
thanks
was your frustration with forum mafia also faked, or was that real?
That wasn't faked. I just think IRL mafia is much more fun, but it was fun to watch the game after I was lynched.
It's possible that it's partly because I was mafia for my first game, but I doubt I'll try again. It also takes more time than I had hoped, and I don't want to spend that much time on a forum mafia game, especially not if players are expected to go back and reread the other players' posts. I'm glad I gave it a try anyway.
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well played!
also nicely done LA, you managed to fool everyone into thinking you're town.
thanks
was your frustration with forum mafia also faked, or was that real?
That wasn't faked. I just think IRL mafia is much more fun, but it was fun to watch the game after I was lynched.
It seems really hard to judge people just by reading posts they wrote (and had time to think about). It's possible that it's partly because I was mafia for my first game, but I doubt I'll try again. It also takes more time than I had hoped, and I don't want to spend that much time on a forum mafia game, especially not if players are expected to go back and reread the other players' posts. I'm glad I gave it a try anyway.
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oops. Once again, I pressed the quote button thinking I was pressing 'modify post'.
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well played!
also nicely done LA, you managed to fool everyone into thinking you're town.
thanks
was your frustration with forum mafia also faked, or was that real?
That wasn't faked. I just think IRL mafia is much more fun, but it was fun to watch the game after I was lynched.
It's possible that it's partly because I was mafia for my first game, but I doubt I'll try again. It also takes more time than I had hoped, and I don't want to spend that much time on a forum mafia game, especially not if players are expected to go back and reread the other players' posts. I'm glad I gave it a try anyway.
:( You should still stick around and spectate though. It's like playing, but without the pressure and time commitment!
The game is very different for town and scum too, you might enjoy being town.
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Well, we managed to pull it off even without having to kill off one of us :)
I think town was very much hurt in this game by sort of implicitly assuming that scum was all vanilla. I mean this is RMM, did you really expect that? I brought up potential scum powers multilple times, you didn't ever consider that scum might have messed with anything. It's obviously a stretch to get to what really happened here on the final day, but at least there was one scum guaranteed in lio/me, so lynching outside of that was quite bad.
I blundered a bit through the middle, partly due to VLA and pit being gone. Vanillaising the same player twice and not using Swamp Hag on the extra night was not great... but it worked out beautifully.
As for the setup, I feel 3 scum in 11 players already gave us a good starting position, not necessarily overpowered, but strong. The random role distribution ended up kinda swingy... it would have been much harder for us if the Swamp Hag had fallen to town hands, and much easier if we had gotten the Page. I'm not sure I'm a fan of that. The game had some interesting ideas though, the Page neighborhood stuff was quite cool.
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Huh.
Not sure my sub was needed. Why'd you kill me?
Man, you had such a huge target on your back. You were loved, you were going to be tested and IC'd, you were likely the Page due to silver's (and only silver's) death, and you were a wildcard, bringing in a fresh viewpoint and potentially shaking established opinions (like "faust is town").
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right, I wanted to ask - faust, were your scumslips actually scumslips this game?
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right, I wanted to ask - faust, were your scumslips actually scumslips this game?
I wouldn't say that - I mean, there was daytalk, so yes I also posted in the QTs, but I also did a lot of editing QTs in preparation for Buffy/Angel, so it could have happened just as easily had I been town.
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Doesn't everyone just highlight and click the bold "B" in the upper left?
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Doesn't everyone just highlight and click the bold "B" in the upper left?
no.
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Doesn't everyone just highlight and click the bold "B" in the upper left?
<b>ye i do that</b>