Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: market squire on January 17, 2015, 05:56:26 pm
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Hello!
I find it funny to make serious specuations about the new Dominion expansion. Sure, it is very unlikely that Adventures looks like I predict. This will look ridiculous when we know Donald's cards. This is just for fun. And in the end it will make us aware of how good the official Dominion cards are!
So here is what I would do coming from this description (http://riograndegames.com/Game/1285-Dominion-Adventures).
Some of these are adaptions of LastFootnote's Activation cards (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10563.0) or other cards from this forum, some cards are from the German forum (http://forum.dominionblog.de/viewforum.php?f=15) and some are new.
Feel free to post your own ideas and predictions. ;)
Duration cards:
Note that the Duration type doen't mean the card is discarded in your next turn's cleanup! Most of these cards are not like the Durations from Seaside. They are discarded in the cleanup phase when all their on-play effects are resolved.
Relocate (Action - Duration) $4
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of each of your future turns, if a card set aside by this, trash it and gain a card costing exactly $1 more. You may set aside the new card.
(Edit: Grammar)
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $3
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
(Edit: Lowered cost from $4 to $3.)
Ambush (Action-Duration) $2
Now and the next time another player buys a Victory card, +2 cards.
Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside a card from your hand. After the next time you shuffle your deck, discard the card you set aside.
(Edit: Clarity)
Prince's Chamber (Action - Duration) $4
You may play an Action from your hand. When you would discard it in this cleanup phase, set it aside instead. Play it again at the start of your next turn.
(This one changed a lot between Reserve and Duration. It went back to a Duration with Prince's phrasing.)
Reserve cards
When a Reserve card is played, you don't put it into play but on your Reserve mat. Either immediately or at any future time during your Action phase, you may put it into play which will trigger the "when you put this in play" effect. You can put a Reserve card from the mat into play whenever you'd regularly be able to play an Action from your hand. This does not use up an Action though.
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Now and when you put this into play, +$1 +1 Buy.
Caravansary (Action - Reserve - Reaction) $4
When you put this into play, +2 Cards.
When you gain a card costing $0, you may reveal this from your hand or from play. If you do, put this on your Reserve mat.
Town Gate (Action - Reserve) $4
Now and when you put this into play, draw until you have 6 cards in your hand.
While this is on your Reserve mat, when another player plays an Attack card, you may trash a card from your hand.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
You may trash card from your hand that is not a Treasure. If you don't, put this into play.
When you put this into play:
+4 Cards
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
When you play an Action, you may put this into play. If you do, play the Action again.
(This idea comes from the Dominion outtakes (http://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/small-dark-ages-1.png?w=640&h=900), see here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5799.msg412348#msg412348).)
Cards using a non-supply pile:
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
When you put this into play, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
The Wagoner pile consists of 16 Wagoners.
Traveller's Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Wainwright (Action) $5
+$3
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Fair (Action) $2
+1 Action
+$1
Every time you put a Wagoner into play this turn, +1 Card.
When you discard this from play, for each unused Action, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Player tokens
Each player gets a player color that is indicated by his Reserve mat. In that color, he gets 10 tokens. The tokens are put on an Action supply pile by explicit card effects. When the player plays a copy of an Action from a pile with his token, he also resolves the token effect after resolving the card text.
When a pile with tokens on it gets empty, the tokens lose their effect and are returned to the players.
Every player has 2 of the following tokens:
+1 Card.
+1 Action.
+$1 +1 Buy.
Gain a Duchy.
Gain a copy of this.
Exploration Ship (Action) $5
When you discard this from play, you may put it back to the supply. If you do, put any of your tokens on the Exploration ship pile.
Spearman (Action-Attack) $4
+$1
Each other player removes a "+$1 +1 Buy" token from the Spearman pile.
If he does, he gains a Curse.
Otherwise, he puts a "+$1 +1 Buy" token on the Spearman pile.
Other cool cards:
Courier (Action - Attack) $5
+2 Cards
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Offering (Action) $0*
+1 Action
For you and player blue: +1 card.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
The Offering pile consists of 5 Offerings in each of the 6 colors.
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
(This one got unlikely since Asper changed this into an ancillary card (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9231.msg466066#msg466066) now.)
Army (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player turns the top card of his deck face-up. When he would draw the face-up card, he turns it face down instead.
(Something like that could work with tokens as well.)
Round Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When this is in play at the end your buy phase, you may pay $1. If you do, put this on top of your deck.
Treaty (Reaction) $4
When the player to your right discards an Action from play, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside with that action card. Play that Action at the start of your next turn. When you would move it from play, put it on the discard pile of the player to your right instead, then discard this Treaty. When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it and put it on top of your deck.
Event cards
Play with 2 random Event cards if one randomly drawn card of the kingdom is from Adventures.
Events can be bought like the other cards, but instead of gaining them, you immediately play them (they are not considered "in play" though). Events can never be gained.
The Events are:
Market Day (Event) $1
The first time you play this in your turn, +2 Buys.
Manipulation (Event - Attack) $1
Each other player reveals the top card of his deck and discards it if it costs $2 or more and is not a Victory card.
Wagoner (Event) $2
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Survey (Event) $2
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and discard any number of them. Put the rest back in any order.
Ball (Event) $2
Look through your discard pile. Put a card from it on top of your deck.
Round Table (Event) $2
+1 Buy. Put your deck into your discard pile.
Offering (Event - Attack) $3
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Carriage (Event) $3
Place one of your +1 Action tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Invention (Event) $3
Place one of your +1 Card tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Treaty (Event) $3
Place one of your +$1 +1 Buy tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Accolade (Event) $3
Place one of your Gain a Duchy tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Scholar (Event) $3
Place one of your Gain a copy of this tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Remodeling (Event) $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Holy Mass (Event) $4
Trash any number of cards you have in play.
Expedition (Event) $4
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Reserve (Event) $4
When you discard an Action card from play during this Cleanup phase, put it on your Reserve tableau.
When an Action card is on your Reserve tableau that is not a Reserve card, you may play it during your Action phase (for free).
Damnation (Event - Attack) $5
Each other player gains a Curse card.
Any ideas for the other half of the tokens? My guess is they will be either coin tokens (like from Guilds) or two times 15 single-card tokens (like for Embargo). Or some other way to "modify cards"?
Also, there are still a lot of slots open, maybe I will also come up with more.
Old Reserve mechanic (it got changed after player tokens where leaked (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/18315716#18315716)):
60 Tokens, half of these are Reserve tokens.
You put Reserve tokens on a card if the card tells you to do. You can spend the token either immediately or at any future time during your Action phase to get the benefit for the token. This does not cost up an Action, but you can't spend a token after you used up all your Actions.
Cards with Reserve tokens on them are not discarded in the cleanup phase. A Reserve token looses track of the card if it leaves play otherwise, then the token is discarded.
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put two Reserve tokens on this. When you spend a token from this card, +$1 +1 Buy.
(Edit: Error - "now" removed)
Caravansary (Action - Reserve) $4
Put 2 Reserve tokens on this. When you spend a token from this card, +1 Card.
While this is in play, when you gain a card costing $0, put a Reserve token on this.
Town Gate (Action - Reserve) $4
Put a Reserve token on this. Now and when you spend the token, draw until you have 6 cards in your hand.
While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, you may trash a card from your hand.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put a Reserve token on this.
You may spend that token when you play an Action. If you do, play the Action again.
Prince's Chamber (Action) $4
Put a Reserve token on an Action you have in play that is not a Duration card.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
(Edit: Reserve mechanic instead of Duration; Edit 2: changed cost from $3 to $4)
Pitman (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Discard a card. When you spend X tokens from this card, gain a card costing up to $X.
While this is in play, when you discard a card other than during Cleanup, put a token on this.
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
Old Events:
Adventure (Event) $1
During this cleanup phase, draw 1 additional card.
Expedition (Event) $3
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Campaign (Event) $5
During this cleanup phase, draw 3 additional cards.
Navigation (Event) $3
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and discard any number of them. Put the rest back in any order.
Ball (Event) $2
Look through your discard pile. Put a card from it on top of your deck.
Round Table (Event) $2
+1 Buy. Put your deck into your discard pile.
Auction (Event) $1
+1 Buy. Discard your hand. +$1 per card discarded.
Market Day (Event) $1
The first time you play this in your turn, +2 Buys.
(Edit: Only once per turn.)
Holy Mass (Event) $4
Trash any number of cards you have in play.
Remodeling (Event) $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Expanding (Event) $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $3 more than it.
Curse (Event - Attack) $5
Each other player gains a Curse card.
Offensive (Event - Attack) $2
Each other player discards until he has 3 cards in his hand.
Manipulation (Event - Attack) $1
+1 Buy. Each other player reveals the top card of his deck and discards it if it costs $2 or more and is not a Victory card.
Accolade (Event) $4
When you discard an Action card from play during this Cleanup phase, leave it in play and put a Reserve token on it.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
Fair (Event) $6
Place a Reserve token on each Treasure card you have in play.
When a Reserve token is on a Tresure card, you may spend it when playing Treasures during your Buy phase to play the Treasure again.
Parade (Event) $2
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
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No feedback at all? I mean, what do you think of my Reserve mechanic? What about the Events? Are you all among the chosen people who got to know the expansion already - or are you tired of speculations?
If you don't like that I recap other people's (or even my own) ideas, I won't hesitate to delete those from the topic.
Some small changes:
Prince's Chamber could use Reserve tokens as well so that it doesn't need to be a Duration, maybe for $4 then.
Prince's Chamber (Action) $4
You may play an Action from your hand.
When you would discard it from play in this Cleanup phase, leave it in play instead and put a Reserve token on it.
Toll House is awkward because you can just never use the Wagoners and make the Houses super Hunting Grounds. I'd dump it, but maybe it could be fixed with other scaling or other Wagoner-gaining effects?
I thought that the Events are also considered to be cards, thus also affected by cost reduction. So +1 Buy events are problematic (except Round Table and Auction which can happen only once anyway, maybe Manipulation as well). Adventure and Market Day have to get a clause like "only once per turn".
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From my personal experience, threads with less cards get feedback more easily. That many cards are overwhelming, to me at least.
Another option would be to make hawt pics (of the cards).
I'll try to remember to take a look at your cards and give feedback to some of them tomorrow. It's a bit late today...
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Late again today, but i'll write a little something nonetheless... I'll not write something about every card, though, because i'd have to force myself to and i'm too nice to force things on people. So let's see.
Relocate (Action - Duration) $4
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turns, as long as there is a card set aside from this, trash it and gain a card costing exactly $1 more. You may set aside the new card.
It's an interesting concept, but it's very strong in kingdoms that have a connected range of costs ($7 cards) and much worse if those are missing. anyhow, it drains piles pretty quickly if you want it to. Still, i think it's something interesting and fresh.
Edit: Given that cards costing $2, $3,$4,$5 and $6 are in every kingdom (this card itself is the $4), this is probably a bit too strong compared to Remodel as you can "Remodel" Estates into Gold. You can't use the card in the meantime, that's true, but considering it and the card you gain would be in your discard pile anyhow, i'm not sure how much this weights in.
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
I'd limit it to 4. 3 are pretty harsh. Other than that i think a card that punishes you next turn could be something interesting. On the other hand, it might feel very unpleasant if your next turn seems like it would have been great otherwise.
Ambush (Action-Duration) $2
Now and the next time an opponent buys a Victory card, +2 cards.
Does it stay in play until it is resolved?
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
+1 Action
Return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
The Wagoner pile consists of 16 Wagoners.
Traveller's Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Isn't this just a Village that partly fails if the pile is empty? I really don't get the point of it.
Wainwright (Action) $4
+$3
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
I guess the Wagoner is a drawback here? Maybe it harms you too much, but i'm not sure.
Toll House (Action) $3
+2 Cards
+1 Card per Wagoner you have in play.
When you gain this, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Resembles Death Kart in a way and also reminds me of those "Bonus for Curses" cards. I never really saw one of those i liked, which i think is a bad sign for Toll House... :/
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
This is no doubt the most amazing card i ever read and Donald should immediately make an expansion consisting entirely of 45 piles of this.
Army (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player turns the top card of his deck face-up. When he would draw the face-up card, he turns it face down instead.
(Something like that could work with tokens as well.)
I never saw this before. Interesting concept for an attack, though it reminds me a bit of Bureaucrat, which achieves a similar thing more easily. Still a direction one could keep in mind.
Round Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When this is in play at the end your buy phase, you may pay $1. If you do, put this on top of your deck.
I see why it doesn't say "if you have at least $1 left" - that would allow you to topdeck more than one at the same time. Still i'm not sure the concept is worth introducing an entirely new mechanic.
You could let it gain a "return" token for -$1 on play, but maybe that's not a very good idea.
Treaty (Reaction) $4
When the player to your right discards an Action from play, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside with that action card. Play that Action at the start of your next turn. When you would move it from play, put it on the discard pile of the player to your right instead, then discard this Treaty. When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it and put it on top of your deck.
It's a bit of a targeted attack if your opponent reshuffles - probably not more than Possession, though. Maybe use a card from the supply instead?
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How does Toll House work if Wagoner gets returned to its pile upon being played?
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I think the Wagoner confusion is stemming from the fact that unlike with other subtypes like Duration and Reaction, the Reserve cards like Wagoner don't actually seem to say on the card what they do. Rather than just playing the card and doing what it says, you have to see its Reserve type and then cross-reference what the card says with all the Reserve rules. The Reserve rules themselves should probably be incorporated into the instructions written on the Reserve cards to address this - at least enough of them to address standard play.
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Thanks for your comments!
Okay, I see that my Reserve mechanic is too far away from basic Dominion and not likely to come up in the real set.
If I put the rules on each card, it would be like:
Theater (Action - Reserve) $4
You may put a Reserve token on this.
If you do, stop playing this; during your Action phase, you may spend a Reserve token from this card to continue playing this.
+2 Cards
Trash a card from your hand.
At this point, I can't really think of a better Reserve concept than Activation cards, or cards setting itself aside on the mat.
Relocate (Action - Duration) $4
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turns, as long as there is a card set aside from this, trash it and gain a card costing exactly $1 more. You may set aside the new card.
It's an interesting concept, but it's very strong in kingdoms that have a connected range of costs ($7 cards) and much worse if those are missing. anyhow, it drains piles pretty quickly if you want it to. Still, i think it's something interesting and fresh.
Edit: Given that cards costing $2, $3,$4,$5 and $6 are in every kingdom (this card itself is the $4), this is probably a bit too strong compared to Remodel as you can "Remodel" Estates into Gold. You can't use the card in the meantime, that's true, but considering it and the card you gain would be in your discard pile anyhow, i'm not sure how much this weights in.
The real strength of Remodel is being able to trade Gold for Province.
So both would have ups and downs. The $4 cost self-combo is intended, so it wouldn't really work at another cost. Maybe it could be a thing that you don't trash the card but put it back to the supply? Another tweak to make it slower would be making it dependent of other events, like every time you shuffle, or every time you gain a Gold or something, but I like the start-of-turn simplicity here.
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
I'd limit it to 4. 3 are pretty harsh. Other than that i think a card that punishes you next turn could be something interesting. On the other hand, it might feel very unpleasant if your next turn seems like it would have been great otherwise.
Have you realized that they stack, but the self-attack doesn't?
Ambush (Action-Duration) $2
Now and the next time an opponent buys a Victory card, +2 cards.
Does it stay in play until it is resolved?
It does, it is discarded in the cleanup phase of the opponent who bought green.
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
+1 Action
Return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
The Wagoner pile consists of 16 Wagoners.
Traveller's Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Isn't this just a Village that partly fails if the pile is empty? I really don't get the point of it.
As TheOthin pointed out, you can use Wagoner's Action whenever you want because it is a Reserve card. The Reserve tokens work as "Action tokens" here.
Wainwright (Action) $4
+$3
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
I guess the Wagoner is a drawback here? Maybe it harms you too much, but i'm not sure.
It is a bit of a drawback, but it can help you as well (see above).
Toll House (Action) $3
+2 Cards
+1 Card per Wagoner you have in play.
When you gain this, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Resembles Death Kart in a way and also reminds me of those "Bonus for Curses" cards. I never really saw one of those i liked, which i think is a bad sign for Toll House... :/
Again, Wagoner is not to be considered a Curse because it is not more in your deck once you played it.
How does Toll House work if Wagoner gets returned to its pile upon being played?
You don't have to resolve Wagoner's effect - so you can just stack Wagoners to draw lots of cards with the Toll Houses. But this is too strong, as i said before.
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
This is no doubt the most amazing card i ever read and Donald should immediately make an expansion consisting entirely of 45 piles of this.
That would be soo awesome! ;D
Round Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When this is in play at the end your buy phase, you may pay $1. If you do, put this on top of your deck.
I see why it doesn't say "if you have at least $1 left" - that would allow you to topdeck more than one at the same time. Still i'm not sure the concept is worth introducing an entirely new mechanic.
You could let it gain a "return" token for -$1 on play, but maybe that's not a very good idea.
Yeah, this is an idea. I really don't know what to do whith 60 tokens...
But wait... maybe it is just 10 tokens per player, introducing player colors to Dominion :o
Treaty (Reaction) $4
When the player to your right discards an Action from play, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside with that action card. Play that Action at the start of your next turn. When you would move it from play, put it on the discard pile of the player to your right instead, then discard this Treaty. When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it and put it on top of your deck.
It's a bit of a targeted attack if your opponent reshuffles - probably not more than Possession, though. Maybe use a card from the supply instead?
I don't think that is a noticeable effect. It is as much a targeted attack as Tribute.
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Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
It seems like this is going to be fine at 3$. That may seem dangerous on the surface, since the punishment doesn't stack so it seems like the card stacks with itself really well a-la Minion. But the hidden weakness of seaside cards, missed reshuffles, is exacerbated by buying lots of labs, and this happens to be a lab. It actually won't stack with itself that well in very high numbers.
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I think it's hilarious you built an entire mechanic around ruined village
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So I've come up with another take on the Reserve mechanic.
I thought my first version was very simple because you could shelve the effect of the whole card. That meant that you could easily make normal Actions Reserve actions just by placing a Reserve token on it (which would adress the 'tokens that modify cards' hint). It also meant that the Reserve effect is throneable - this is not easy to track otherwise.
BUT. This means that normal Reserve cards would be all the same: Use an Action to play a card without any effect; do a super powerful effect later (this is especially strong with +Cards - see Wharf).
I tried to do some different things with it, but the basic concept seems to be too restrictive here.
So I guess the Reserve cards will have effects both "on play" and "on reserve".
New Reserve Rules:
You put tokens on a card if the card tells you to do. You can spend the token either immeadiately or at any future time during your Action phase before you have used up your Actions. The card tells you what happens when you spend a token.
(Cards with Reserve tokens on them are not discarded in the cleanup phase. A Reserve token looses track of the card if it leaves play otherwise, then the token is discarded.)
Town Gate (Action - Reserve) $4
Put a Reserve token on this. Now and when you spend the token, draw until you have 6 cards in your hand.
While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, you may trash a card from your hand.
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put two Reserve tokens on this. Now and when you spend the token, +$1 +1 Buy.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
This one would fit here, too:
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put a Reserve token on this.
You may spend that token when you play an Action. If you do, play the Action again.
The new Prince's Chamber and the Events Accolade and Fair don't work with that concept because you don't know what a token on a non-Reserve card means. Maybe we could do it anyway, putting the old rules on the cards?
Prince's Chamber (Action) $4
You may play an Action from your hand.
When you would discard it from play in this Cleanup phase, leave it in play instead and put a Reserve token on it.
When a Reserve token is on a card that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
Theater and Savings look boring with that new concept.
But it opens space for new cards that I may add later.
Or maybe you have a good Reserve token idea?
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Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside one card from your hand. Discard it when you shuffle the next time (don't shuffle it in).
Do you get +4 Cards forever? Sounds excessively strong.
And what is the point with discarding the set aside card from your hand? Is there an idea that I am missing?
Just curious :)
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Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside one card from your hand. Discard it when you shuffle the next time (don't shuffle it in).
Do you get +4 Cards forever? Sounds excessively strong.
And what is the point with discarding the set aside card from your hand? Is there an idea that I am missing?
Just curious :)
"Duration" does not imply "do this at the start of a future turn" but "this does something in a future turn, so leave this out until it is done". Only when you play Donjon you get the +4 cards. You also set aside a card that will miss the next shuffle together with Donjon - this can be useful if it is a Victory card or something else that is annoying to draw. What you do in the future is just discarding that annoying card after you've shuffled. So Donjon itself will be discarded in the Cleanup phase of the turn when you shuffle the next time.
If you click on the link, this is the Duration version of my "queue pile" concept which lets you make cards miss the shuffle on purpose.
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I actually believe more in the theory that the mats will contain reserve cards that can be played in the middle of later turns. The reserve token thing works largely the same but the play area is more cluttered that way.
I also speculate that it's possible reserve cards won't be a part of your deck, you'll use them once then return them to the supply or trash them. So there will be stacks of 1$ Necropolis's that go to the reserve mat on purchase, or pricey terminals that let you put action cards of your choosing onto your reserve mat for the next time you're in a pinch.
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Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside one card from your hand. Discard it when you shuffle the next time (don't shuffle it in).
Do you get +4 Cards forever? Sounds excessively strong.
And what is the point with discarding the set aside card from your hand? Is there an idea that I am missing?
Just curious :)
"Duration" does not imply "do this at the start of a future turn" but "this does something in a future turn, so leave this out until it is done". Only when you play Donjon you get the +4 cards. You also set aside a card that will miss the next shuffle together with Donjon - this can be useful if it is a Victory card or something else that is annoying to draw. What you do in the future is just discarding that annoying card after you've shuffled. So Donjon itself will be discarded in the Cleanup phase of the turn when you shuffle the next time.
If you click on the link, this is the Duration version of my "queue pile" concept which lets you make cards miss the shuffle on purpose.
Yes, you are correct of course. I read it as "At the start of each of your turns, +4 Cards" as I have been creating my own fan cards with similar ideas. And putting a useless card side is a good thing, I guess I just expected something even better :) Thanks for the explanation!
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I actually believe more in the theory that the mats will contain reserve cards that can be played in the middle of later turns. The reserve token thing works largely the same but the play area is more cluttered that way.
I also speculate that it's possible reserve cards won't be a part of your deck, you'll use them once then return them to the supply or trash them. So there will be stacks of 1$ Necropolis's that go to the reserve mat on purchase, or pricey terminals that let you put action cards of your choosing onto your reserve mat for the next time you're in a pinch.
Thank you for your thoughts! :)
Here's why I think Reserve tokens are more likely than a general Reserve mat:
A) Space. If the mats are Seaside-sized, multiple Reserve cards would have to be stacked which is not very clear. If the mats were larger, you wouldn't need all that space in games with only one Reserve card in the kingdom.
B) Mechanics. A mat is a binary information (the card can be either on the mat or not) while you can stack tokens - so you can throne your Reserve effect as well or can do things like Granary that gives you multiple Reserve activations.
C) 60 tokens! I mean, these have to have a more general function, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them.
I guess that Reserve cards go into the deck like oneshots because in a deckbuilder, it would not be nice to have a kingdom with mostly cards that don't go into your deck.
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I actually believe more in the theory that the mats will contain reserve cards that can be played in the middle of later turns. The reserve token thing works largely the same but the play area is more cluttered that way.
I also speculate that it's possible reserve cards won't be a part of your deck, you'll use them once then return them to the supply or trash them. So there will be stacks of 1$ Necropolis's that go to the reserve mat on purchase, or pricey terminals that let you put action cards of your choosing onto your reserve mat for the next time you're in a pinch.
Thank you for your thoughts! :)
Here's why I think Reserve tokens are more likely than a general Reserve mat:
A) Space. If the mats are Seaside-sized, multiple Reserve cards would have to be stacked which is not very clear. If the mats were larger, you wouldn't need all that space in games with only one Reserve card in the kingdom.
B) Mechanics. A mat is a binary information (the card can be either on the mat or not) while you can stack tokens - so you can throne your Reserve effect as well or can do things like Granary that gives you multiple Reserve activations.
C) 60 tokens! I mean, these have to have a more general function, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them.
I guess that Reserve cards go into the deck like oneshots because in a deckbuilder, it would not be nice to have a kingdom with mostly cards that don't go into your deck.
Well I am with you on the last count.
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I thought about simplifying Prince's Chamber. The cleanup phase thing was just to prevent you from putting a token on a Duration. So what about explicitly excluding Durations, since those will be in the set anyway?
Prince's Chamber (Action) $3
Put a Reserve token on an Action you have in play that is not a Duration card.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
This has more in common with Scheme. You can also put the token on the Chamber itself to use its effect later.
Well, this comes close to:
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put a Reserve token on this.
You may spend that token when you play an Action. If you do, play the Action again.
But I will leave both cards here for now.
There could be cards that let you aquire more tokens via themselves, like:
Caravansary (Action - Reserve) $4
Put 2 Reserve tokens on this. When you spend a token from this card, +1 Card.
________________________
While this is in play, when you gain a card costing $0, put a Reserve token on this.
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I like Caravansary.
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Relocate (Action - Duration) $4
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turns, as long as there is a card set aside from this, trash it and gain a card costing exactly $1 more. You may set aside the new card.
"At the start of your next turns" is grammatically incorrect... it should be "At the starts...", which still sounds weird. I suggest, "At the start of each of your future turns."
So this is a duration that slowly upgrades a card. Sounds OK. Not sure if it would be strong or weak. I lean towards weak, but not egregiously so.
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $3
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
This seems strong. The thing is, these are cheap labs that you can spam because you are only really penalized from the first copy. Moreover, this card gives you one better turn by weakening another turn, and it does so by giving you a bigger/smaller hand size. Tactician already does that in a more interesting way.
Ambush (Action-Duration) $2
Now and the next time an opponent buys a Victory card, +2 cards.
Just FYI, Dominion cards actually don't refer to opponents, only "other players". This is kind of an odd card. In many games you can get some early and then they disappear from your deck until greening begins. Then you suddenly get a bigger hand and you have a bunch of buyless almost-Wharves. It sounds OK to me.
Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside one card from your hand. Discard it when you shuffle the next time (don't shuffle it in).
I'm guessing that the intended effect is that Donjon stays in play with the set-aside card until you shuffle, at which point both miss the shuffle. I think the wording could be clearer:
"Set aside a card from your hand. After the next time you shuffle your deck, discard this and the card you set aside."
Sounds alright.
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put two Reserve tokens on this. Now and when you spend the token, +$1 +1 Buy.
Should say "when you spend a token". I like the idea of using reserve tokens for extended durations.
Though it doesn't seem like it at first, this card is probably undercosted. You said you can spend the tokens immediately, which means that this card can non-terminally generate +$3, +3 Buys. That is way better than Gold even without considering the option to save money and buys for when you need them! This is probably more like a $7 card.
Caravansary (Action - Reserve) $4
Put 2 Reserve tokens on this. When you spend a token from this card, +1 Card.
________________________
While this is in play, when you gain a card costing $0, put a Reserve token on this.
Seems alright. The "while in play" is pretty interesting. You probably want a bunch in play in games with Cursing, especially with Mountebank and IGG. Could be killer with Beggar. Also could be very good with cost reduction.
Town Gate (Action - Reserve) $4
Put a Reserve token on this. Now and when you spend the token, draw until you have 6 cards in your hand.
While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, you may trash a card from your hand.
Sounds pretty good as well. I am impressed by how most of the cards in this set seem quite reasonable.
It should be noted that the reaction will probably cause confusion with Torturer. I bet many people would try to gain the Curse from Torturer and then immediately trash it, but correct timing would not allow that.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Not that fond of it. One-shots should do something more exciting, I think. While this could be very useful, it just doesn't feel splashy enough.
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put a Reserve token on this.
You may spend that token when you play an Action. If you do, play the Action again.
A throne room that waits. I think this is powerful enough that $5 is probably too low. Hard to say though. But just imagine how it meshes with King's Court. Speaking of which, it could get really confusing if you use Balcony to interrupt a card that plays another card. It may help if you tweak the timing to say "you may spend that token after you play an Action". That is probably what you meant anyway.
Prince's Chamber (Action) $3
Put a Reserve token on an Action you have in play that is not a Duration card.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
This can almost emulate Throne Room, though in a (probably) slightly weaker way. But it can also be more flexible, so I'd say that this should be at least $4.
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
This is basically a way to use Reserve tokens as "action tokens". I don't know if it's worth 16 cards to do that.
Traveller's Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
A village if you want it to be, or you can hold onto the action for later. I think the flexibility might be enough to cost $5, but I'm not at all sure.
Wainwright (Action) $4
+$3
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Even without the Wagoner bit, this is a terminal gold. That is too strong for $4, and arguably too strong for $5 as well.
Toll House (Action) $3
+2 Cards
+$1 per Wagoner you have in play.
When you gain this, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Questionable, especially in combination with a better way of gaining Wagoners like Traveller's Village. It would be like Pirate Ship except easier to build up, without helping your opponents on the way.
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
I think the conversation in that thread is enough. It's a fine card. :P
Army (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player turns the top card of his deck face-up. When he would draw the face-up card, he turns it face down instead.
Already commented on this in the other thread.
Round Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When this is in play at the end your buy phase, you may pay $1. If you do, put this on top of your deck.
Steps on the toes of Walled Village. :( Also, this might be good enough to cost $5. Not sure.
Treaty (Reaction) $4
When the player to your right discards an Action from play, you may reveal this from your hand and set it aside with that action card. Play that Action at the start of your next turn. When you would move it from play, put it on the discard pile of the player to your right instead, then discard this Treaty. When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it and put it on top of your deck.
It sounds OK. The conversation in that thread is good.
Event cards
Play with 2 random Event cards if one randomly drawn card of the kingdom is from Adventures.
Events can be bought like the other cards, but instead of gaining them, you immediately play them (they are not considered "in play" though). Events can never be gained.
What does that mean? Events are used any time at least one Adventures card is in the kingdom? Randomly choose in the same way Platinum/Colony and Ruins are included?
The Events are:
Adventure (Event) $1
During this cleanup phase, draw 1 additional card.
Expedition (Event) $3
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Campaign (Event) $5
During this cleanup phase, draw 3 additional cards.
Navigation (Event) $3
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and discard any number of them. Put the rest back in any order.
Ball (Event) $2
Look through your discard pile. Put a card from it on top of your deck.
Round Table (Event) $2
+1 Buy. Put your deck into your discard pile.
Auction (Event) $1
+1 Buy. Discard your hand. +$1 per card discarded.
Market Day (Event) $1
+2 Buys.
Holy Mass (Event) $4
Trash any number of cards you have in play.
Remodeling (Event) $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Expanding (Event) $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $3 more than it.
Curse (Event - Attack) $5
Each other player gains a Curse card.
Offensive (Event - Attack) $2
Each other player discards until he has 3 cards in his hand.
Manipulation (Event - Attack) $1
+1 Buy. Each other player reveals the top card of his deck and discards it if it costs $2 or more and is not a Victory card.
Accolade (Event) $4
When you discard an Action card from play during this Cleanup phase, leave it in play and put a Reserve token on it.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
Fair (Event) $6
Place a Reserve token on each Treasure card you have in play.
When a Reserve token is on a Tresure card, you may spend it when playing Treasures during your Buy phase to play the Treasure again.
Parade (Event) $2
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Tough to evaluate these. I don't think all 3 of Adventure, Expedition and Campaign need to exist; one is enough.
Navigation is closer to Cartography!
Ball is too similar to Herald's overpay.
Auction seems too easy to use. I don't think there's a way to fix it. Without +1 Buy, it's a pointless Event in a kingdom without +Buy. With it, it's usually a no-brainer as to whether or not to use it.
Market Day seems fine.
Holy Mass is basically a less interesting, easier-to-use variation on Mint.
I think Remodeling and Expanding are too similar to Farmland.
Curse should really have a different name, and I think it's too similar to IGG.
Offensive is probably not a fun card, according to Donald's playtesting. From the secret history of Hinterlands:
Maybe it's for the best that you'll never experience the joy of a when-gain discard-based attack just sitting there, promising that any hand you draw might be taken away, even if no-one has even bought the card yet.
Manipulation would be better without the +1 Buy. Otherwise, it's another no-brainer decision whenever you have extra coin that isn't otherwise needed.
Accolade seems fine.
Fair is another Event that can act like Mint. More importantly though, it is easily broken when you have an engine that can generate at least +1 Buy each turn. Or Counterfeit, or the Market Day event. All you need is to get $6 worth of Treasure in play. That's just 2 Gold, or maybe your starting Copper. Anything beyond that is pure profit. At the start of your buy phase, play all your reserved treasures and any treasures in your hand. Buy Fair to re-reserve all your treasures. Repeat forever! Now you have an engine that is unclogged with treasure, but still has the benefit of those treasures every single turn.
I don't think any of these events fulfills the last line of the description for Adventures: "There are also 20 Event cards that give you something to buy besides cards, including tokens that modify cards." This gave me a very specific idea, which I think I will try to post later.
Overall, I think the ideas here are pretty neat! I haven't read all the other commentary (and I don't think I'll have time right now) but, just skimming it, it sounds like you've already tweaked your Reserve mechanism significantly based on feedback.
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Thank you so much for commenting! :)
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $3
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
This seems strong. The thing is, these are cheap labs that you can spam because you are only really penalized from the first copy. Moreover, this card gives you one better turn by weakening another turn, and it does so by giving you a bigger/smaller hand size. Tactician already does that in a more interesting way.
I had it at $4 first, but pops pointed out:
Transport Ship (Action - Duration) $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard down to 3 cards in your hand.
It seems like this is going to be fine at 3$. That may seem dangerous on the surface, since the punishment doesn't stack so it seems like the card stacks with itself really well a-la Minion. But the hidden weakness of seaside cards, missed reshuffles, is exacerbated by buying lots of labs, and this happens to be a lab. It actually won't stack with itself that well in very high numbers.
You are right about Tactician, but I still think there will be something alike. It is the nature of Durations.
Donjon (Action-Duration) $5
+4 Cards
Set aside one card from your hand. Discard it when you shuffle the next time (don't shuffle it in).
I'm guessing that the intended effect is that Donjon stays in play with the set-aside card until you shuffle, at which point both miss the shuffle. I think the wording could be clearer:
"Set aside a card from your hand. After the next time you shuffle your deck, discard this and the card you set aside."
Sounds alright.
I changed the wording (also for Relocate and Ambush), just without "discard this". You discard Donjon in the next cleanup phase, otherwise you could play it multiple times a turn (which is reserved for River).
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put two Reserve tokens on this. Now and when you spend the token, +$1 +1 Buy.
Should say "when you spend a token". I like the idea of using reserve tokens for extended durations.
Though it doesn't seem like it at first, this card is probably undercosted. You said you can spend the tokens immediately, which means that this card can non-terminally generate +$3, +3 Buys. That is way better than Gold even without considering the option to save money and buys for when you need them! This is probably more like a $7 card.
Oops, forget the "now", it is meant to be
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put two Reserve tokens on this. When you spend a token from this card, +$1 +1 Buy.
Maybe it needs some effect to gain more tokens like Caravansary then? Maybe "While this is in play, when you shuffle, put a token on this"? That would be strictly better than Market though. Hmm.
Looking though the Dominion Outtakes (http://dominionstrategy.com/2013/06/24/dominion-outtakes/), it could be something interactive like "Toll Road (http://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/small-guilds-1.png?w=640&h=900)" (in the bottom row of the Guilds outtakes):
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
For each card the player to your right gained his last turn, put a Reserve token on this. When you spend a token from this card, +$1 +1 Buy.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Not that fond of it. One-shots should do something more exciting, I think. While this could be very useful, it just doesn't feel splashy enough.
This wants to be a Megaturn enabler. Maybe it shouldn't give something of everything but rather huge carddraw, like Madman?
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Put a Reserve token on this. When you spend that token:
+4 Cards
+1 Buy
Trash this.
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Put a Reserve token on this.
You may spend that token when you play an Action. If you do, play the Action again.
A throne room that waits. I think this is powerful enough that $5 is probably too low. Hard to say though. But just imagine how it meshes with King's Court. Speaking of which, it could get really confusing if you use Balcony to interrupt a card that plays another card. It may help if you tweak the timing to say "you may spend that token after you play an Action". That is probably what you meant anyway.
The idea is from Donald's Dark Ages Outtakes ("Procession (http://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/small-dark-ages-1.png?w=640&h=900)" in the lower right corner). He said it was fine, it just required a mat.
That Procession required a mat. With a mat it would have worked fine. I prefer the mat to making them duration cards. The mat keeps it out of the way so you aren't accidentally discarding it. Throning the earlier Procession just didn't do much - you fail to set it aside again and that's it.
Prince's Chamber (Action) $3
Put a Reserve token on an Action you have in play that is not a Duration card.
When a Reserve token is on an Action that is not a Reserve card, you may spend it during your Action phase to play the Action (for free).
This can almost emulate Throne Room, though in a (probably) slightly weaker way. But it can also be more flexible, so I'd say that this should be at least $4.
Throne Room gives +2 Actions virtually, this one only gives you +1 Action (because you must have played the other Action before). The big advantage here is that you can play the Action any time you want (e.g. Smithy on the start of a turn). So maybe it should cost $4. Anyways, that is not a huge difference. I'll change it.
Wainwright (Action) $4
+$3
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Even without the Wagoner bit, this is a terminal gold. That is too strong for $4, and arguably too strong for $5 as well.
Wagoner is a drawback here. It goes into your next shuffe and will be a dead card. Basically it is "+$3, -1 card in your next shuffle".
Toll House (Action) $3
+2 Cards
+$1 per Wagoner you have in play.
When you gain this, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Questionable, especially in combination with a better way of gaining Wagoners like Traveller's Village. It would be like Pirate Ship except easier to build up, without helping your opponents on the way.
Yes, this is the first card that I would cancel.
Maybe I'll come up with more appealing ways to use Wagoner.
Event cards
Play with 2 random Event cards if one randomly drawn card of the kingdom is from Adventures.
Events can be bought like the other cards, but instead of gaining them, you immediately play them (they are not considered "in play" though). Events can never be gained.
What does that mean? Events are used any time at least one Adventures card is in the kingdom? Randomly choose in the same way Platinum/Colony and Ruins Shelters are included?
The latter.
Tough to evaluate these. I don't think all 3 of Adventure, Expedition and Campaign need to exist; one is enough.
Navigation is closer to Cartography!
Ball is too similar to Herald's overpay.
Auction seems too easy to use. I don't think there's a way to fix it. Without +1 Buy, it's a pointless Event in a kingdom without +Buy. With it, it's usually a no-brainer as to whether or not to use it.
Market Day seems fine.
Holy Mass is basically a less interesting, easier-to-use variation on Mint.
I think Remodeling and Expanding are too similar to Farmland.
Curse should really have a different name, and I think it's too similar to IGG.
Offensive is probably not a fun card, according to Donald's playtesting. From the secret history of Hinterlands:
Maybe it's for the best that you'll never experience the joy of a when-gain discard-based attack just sitting there, promising that any hand you draw might be taken away, even if no-one has even bought the card yet.
Manipulation would be better without the +1 Buy. Otherwise, it's another no-brainer decision whenever you have extra coin that isn't otherwise needed.
Accolade seems fine.
Fair is another Event that can act like Mint. More importantly though, it is easily broken when you have an engine that can generate at least +1 Buy each turn. Or Counterfeit, or the Market Day event. All you need is to get $6 worth of Treasure in play. That's just 2 Gold, or maybe your starting Copper. Anything beyond that is pure profit. At the start of your buy phase, play all your reserved treasures and any treasures in your hand. Buy Fair to re-reserve all your treasures. Repeat forever! Now you have an engine that is unclogged with treasure, but still has the benefit of those treasures every single turn.
I don't think any of these events fulfills the last line of the description for Adventures: "There are also 20 Event cards that give you something to buy besides cards, including tokens that modify cards." This gave me a very specific idea, which I think I will try to post later.
I think redoing the on-gain of IGG, Herald, and Farmland as Events is totally worth it. It is quite different and takes just one card slot.
Having low-priced events without +1 Buy makes me a bit nervous because they are almost dead in buy-lacking games.
Auction is intended to be more a rule than a tough card: "In games using this, each card left in your hand but one is worth $1."
LFNs Floodgate could also be an Event:
Floodgate (Event) $3
Set aside up to 4 cards from your hand. Put them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
I'm very curious about your take on the Events.
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Another token acquisition idea:
Pitman (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Discard a card. When you spend X tokens from this card, gain a card costing up to $X.
While this is in play, when you discard a card other than during Cleanup, put a token on this.
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Transport Ship -- I still think $4 would be a more appropriate price, but I concede that it's funky enough that there I am not sure at all.
Donjon -- I'm still confused about the timing on this. As it is written right now, Donjon would get discarded in the cleanup phase of the turn you play it. It has no duration effect at all. Do you mean that it should remain in play until you shuffle, then still remain in play until the cleanup phase after that? The wording needs to be tweaked, but I'm not sure how.
Granary -- so it's still a non-terminal +$2, +2 Buy. It's a silver with +2 Buy that you could potentially partially save for later. I don't know, still not a fan. I don't think you really need to use reserve tokens for saving coins, because that's so similar to coin tokens. The "Toll Road" version might be more interesting.
Fruit Market -- this is more exciting, but I worry that it makes it too easy to mega-turn. Madman is a lot like that, but you have to go through more hoops to make it work.
Wainwright -- ehh, I guess? Seems like a pretty minor drawback though. Wagoner still makes it effectively non-terminal if you want it to be (other than the first time you play it). $5 still seems more appropriate to me. Most action-gold cards sit at $5 with a drawback.
Everything else -- fair enough!
Pitman -- interesting. I like it.
After the new information, I think my idea for events is more likely. To be clear, my idea is more for a specific type of event, rather than an idea for what events are in general. My next post here will be about that (too lazy to make my own thread; I hope that's ok).
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This is the 9th addition to the game of Dominion. It has 400 cards, 6 mats, and 60 tokens. There are 30 new Kingdom cards, including the return of Duration cards that do things on future turns, plus Reserve cards that can be saved for the right moment. There are also 20 Event cards that give you something to buy besides cards, including tokens that modify cards.
My thought is mainly about that last line -- tokens that modify cards, which are things you can buy via events. I figured that there would be a common supply of tokens which would modify cards for all players, but the recent reveal that there are player colours makes it even more compelling.
I don't know how Events will be incorporated. Maybe they will just be things chosen at the start of the game, as you described in the OP. Maybe there will be specific cards that trigger events.
Anyway, I figure there will be an event that lets players buy "Progress Tokens" (arbitrary name here). You put the token on a card in the supply (maybe restricted to action cards, maybe not). Copies of cards have the bonuses associated with tokens on their supply pile. I suppose they should only last while the card is still in the supply, but maybe you could keep the effects and trust that people can remember, or you could use the randomizers maybe.
In my original idea, I also figured that the cost of the cards should increase by $1 for each token on them. But with player colours, it's simpler. You pay the upfront cost for the token and the benefit is only for you. If it's only a blue token on the card, only the blue player gets that bonus.
There are 10 tokens for each player. So what could the effects be? The vanilla bonuses are 4 obvious ones. Another obvious one is a token that makes each copy of the card worth 1VP more. You could also have a simple cost reduction token. An interesting bonus would be a cost increase, which is only a bonus in combination with TfB (or Border Village). Maybe a token could add "trash a card" as an effect. Maybe a token could transform a card into a Reserve card, whatever that means. A token could make the card untrashable like Fortress. Or a token could give a card the Moat reaction. There are many possibilities, though they should be kept simple.
For clarity -- the effects of tokens on a card should be resolved before you resolve the actual card text, for the tokens that give it bonuses on play. This is just to make it easier to track things (think tokens on KC).
These token shenanigans need not be restricted to event cards. For example, here's one idea:
Circus
$4 - Action
Swap one of your Progress tokens on a Supply pile with another from your reserve.
Setup: Each player randomly places 3 of their Progress tokens on the Circus Supply pile.
Clarifications:
- Need better wording; "reserve" isn't great here because it could be confused with the Reserve mechanic, whatever it is.
- You would get the current Circus bonuses before having to swap a Progress token. The swap is mandatory, and it could indeed change Circus does between plays.
- As currently written, the setup means each player's Circus could be different. The rule could be changed so that all players start with the same 3 tokens on the card though.
Anyway, that's my idea. As a quick addendum, I figure that Reserve cards will be pretty simple. I figure they'll be like long-lasting Durations that trigger when you want them to trigger. That is, when you play a Reserve card, it goes directly to your Reserve mat. You can play a card from your Reserve mat for free at any time during your turn (other than in the middle of resolving another action, of course). Maybe some of them will have an effect when you first play them, and maybe some will have a while-in-reserve effect that could be good or bad.
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And I thought this would just be a bad joke...
But wait... maybe it is just 10 tokens per player, introducing player colors to Dominion :o
Well, that turns things around.
On the Reserve mechanic/ mat: As there are no "Reserve tokens", the Reserve cards have to work by setting themseves aside. The mats will indicate the player color and contain all cards with future effects. My wish would be having the mats just as a "border", separating future Durations and Reserves from the regular play area.
New Reserve Rules:
When a Reserve card is played, you don't put it into play but on your Reserve mat. Either immediately or at any future time during your Action phase, you may put it into play which will trigger the "when you put this in play" effect. You can put a Reserve card from the mat into play whenever you'd regularly be able to play an Action from your hand. This does not use up an Action though.
My cards would then look like that:
Granary (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
Now and when you put this into play, +$1 +1 Buy.
Caravansary (Action - Reserve - Reaction) $4
When you put this into play, +2 Cards.
When you gain a card costing $0, you may reveal this from your hand or from play. If you do, put this on your Reserve mat.
Town Gate (Action - Reserve) $4
Now and when you put this into play, draw until you have 6 cards in your hand.
While this is on your Reserve mat, when another player plays an Attack card, you may trash a card from your hand.
Fruit Market (Action - Reserve) $3
Trash a Silver from your hand. If you don't, put this into play.
When you put this into play:
+4 Cards
+1 Buy
Trash this.
There's a hoop for you to jump through for megaturns. ;)
Balcony (Action - Reserve) $5
+1 Action
When you play an Action, you may put this into play. If you do, play the Action again.
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
When you put this into play, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
And this one would have to turn back into a Duration:
Prince's Chamber (Action - Duration) $4
You may play an Action from your hand. When you would discard it in this cleanup phase, set it aside instead. Play it again at the start of your next turn.
On the player tokens: Your mechanic is pretty neat!
But a bit too complex for my taste. At least there should be more restrictions which of the tokens can be used. A card like Circus where you have all the different tokens is just too much.
If there is only one token of a kind, you could buy those Events only once. That sounds bad, but it may be okay because then you aren't able to only buy cards that don't go into the deck. Those events would have to be quite expensive anyways. A bonus of +1$ or +1 Card every time you play a card is HUGE (compare City!).
I like it and it sounds quite realistic, I'll think a bit more of it and include some versions of it into the OP maybe. :)
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I figure it would be just a couple of events, each of which let you choose which token to use. There would be events that do other things too.
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There are 10 tokens for each player. So what could the effects be? The vanilla bonuses are 4 obvious ones. Another obvious one is a token that makes each copy of the card worth 1VP more. You could also have a simple cost reduction token. An interesting bonus would be a cost increase, which is only a bonus in combination with TfB (or Border Village). Maybe a token could add "trash a card" as an effect. Maybe a token could transform a card into a Reserve card, whatever that means. A token could make the card untrashable like Fortress. Or a token could give a card the Moat reaction. There are many possibilities, though they should be kept simple.
Stuff I consider interesting and simple enough to tack on kingdom cards:
+1 Card +1 Action.
Changes any card into a cantrip. Maybe they appear together because +1 Action is too strong on terminals and +1 Card is too strong on non-terminals, so giving both makes it more comfortable. I would appreciate to get the carddraw after the normal effect of the cards because that would be cute with Scout, Navigator, or other top-of-deck-looking cards.
+$1 +1 Buy.
Rising the economic value of your cards. +1 buy for itself would be quite weak, so I'd put these together as well.
Worth 1 VP.
Sounds straightforward and quite interesting.
Gain a Silver.
Consolidates your deck each time you play it!
Costs $1 less.
Nice idea! I guess the chits must have very few words because they are chits. The "never costs less than $0" would have to go into the rulebook. The effect is tough to define for multiple players. I'd go with "during your turn only" - something else for the rulebook ;).
To me, everything else sounds either too wordy or not compelling enough. So there would be 2 tokens each (I'd allow stacking similar tokens on the same pile).
Maaybe there could be a turn-into-Reserve token (or just a throne token), but this sounds incredibly strong.
My idea how they come into the game is that they have to be specifically mentioned. Like:
Invention (Event) $5
Move one of your +1 Card +1 Action tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
This one should be very expensive, maybe even $6. I would go with the BoM ruling that the token's effect will not work when the pile gets emptied. Then you could buy Invention again to move the token on another pile.
Maybe the economy token could cost $2, the VP token $4, the Silver token $3 and the cost reduction $4?
Sure there would also be kingdom cards that use the tokens. I think you shouldn't be able to mock with the tokens on-play because that may be confusing to track actions/ coins/ buys.
Something evolving like Pirate Ship is pretty obvious:
Exploration Ship (Action) $5
When you discard this from play, you may put it back to the supply. If you do, put any of your tokens on the Exploration ship pile.
There could also be a devolving Victory card using the not-on-play tokens only, having sort of a token Attack:
Treacherous Swamp (Victory) $5
Worth 2 VP.
______________________
Setup: All players put 2 "Worth 1 VP" and "Costs $1 less" tokens on this pile.
When a player gains a Province, each other player removes one token from this pile.
Speaking of Attacks:
Grandfather's Trail Mix (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player chooses one of his tokens and moves it to a cheaper supply pile. If he doesn't, he puts a "+$1 +1 Buy" token on the Gold pile and gains a Curse.
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Adding +1 Card and +1 Action together seems way too good. You said +1 Card is too strong on non-terminals, but now you are guaranteeing that the target will be non-terminal.
Getting the effects before is easier to track. Suppose you add a token to King's Court. It's somewhat easier to count the effects as soon as you play the card rather than trying to remember to resolve it at the end of the chain. It gets even more confusing if tokens somehow get added to cards in the middle of chains, because the effects should have been locked in when the card was first played but now you might not remember what tokens were that at the beginning.
+Buy alone is sometimes weak, but not always. The idea was that an event would give you a choice of tokens, not a specific event for each token. That said, putting together +$1, +1 Buy is more reasonable than adding a full cantrip to a card. :P
I don't like "Gain a Silver" that much as an idea for a token, but I don't know why.
Exploration Ship -- Proper wording is "return it to the Supply".
Treacherous Swamp -- Interesting concept, but I'm unsure about the execution. This starts off as a $4 Duchy but it's near guaranteed to be worth only 2VP at the end. In most games, you can expect that your opponents will collectively gain at least 2 Provinces, thus removing both tokens from the card. So it's just a $4 2VP card in most games that sometimes costs $5 in the late game, and might be worth 3VP in exceptional circumstances. That's not that great.
Grandfather's Trail Mix -- Weird but interesting. I don't know how it would actually play out, though I expect it to be pretty weak. First play buffs Gold for the other players and hands out a Curse, but then they just bump the token down for each play. That doesn't seem like a big penalty. At the very least, you are safe for two more attacks at least. I can move the token from Gold to Silver (and have all my Silver be better than Gold!) and then later move the token from Silver to Copper.
That kind of buff to treasures makes me think that there needs to be a restriction against putting the tokens onto treasures. Or maybe the events all just need to cost more, I don't know.
As to how the tokens come into the game, it really depends on how exactly Events are implemented. Invention is fine, but you probably only buy that once a game (or twice, if you have two such tokens available). Sometimes it might be a good idea to drop the token on one card for the early game before switching to another, but I'd expect the opportunity cost to be too much; better to pick one target wisely and stick with it.
I am still following the Event model described in the OP. My idea is to have a few events that let you choose from all 10 (distinct) tokens, but with various twists. Some examples:
Ingenuity
$4 - Event
Move one of your Progress tokens in the Supply.
The straight foward one. You can add, move or remove a token. Easy. For terminology, let's say that unused tokens are "in the Supply" and it's just a question of whether they are on a card or not. If not, they simply aren't active.
Reinforcements
$3 - Event
Choose one: put a card from your hand onto your Reserve mat; or add a Progress token to a card on your Reserve mat.
In games using this, Progress token bonuses on cards on your Reserve mat act as if those cards were in the Supply.
This wording could really use some tightening up. It's a lot like the first event, but it puts the tokens on cards on your Reserve mat instead of cards in the Supply. Again, this is based on my idea that the Reserve mat turns cards into something like permanent durations that you can trigger when you want. Putting a regular (non-Reserve) card on the mat would confer that same advantage -- you can play it from the mat whenever you want, for free.
I'm not sure whether that effect alone is too good for $3. I think it should be fine; it costs you $3 and a buy to get a card onto your mat in the first place, and it only lets you take cards from your hand. That's a good deal of opportunity cost already. I think it would be OK even if this allowed you to put Victory cards on the mat, as an on-buy Island effect.
As for the Progress tokens themselves, this has some significant differences from the first event:
- you can keep the effect even if the Supply pile empties
- you lose one copy of the target card because it has to stay on your Reserve mat forever
- you have an option to play that card from the Reserve, at which point you would lose the Progress bonuses on it
The choice to put a card on the Reserve mat is there just to guarantee that there is a way for cards to get onto the mat.
Barracks
$3 - Event
Choose one: put a card from your hand onto your Reserve mat; or move 1 of your Progress tokens from the Supply onto your Reserve mat.
In games using this, trigger all Progress tokens on your Reserve mat when you play a card from the Reserve.
Instead of affecting all copies of one specific card, this event lets you give a bonus to all cards played from the Reserve. Straight forward, I think.
Provisions
$4 - Event
Move 2 of your Progress tokens from the Supply onto your Reserve mat.
In games using this, Progress tokens on your Reserve mat can be played as if they were cards, then returned to the Supply.
Again, my wording here is not great. This event uses the tokens as one-time bonuses, making them more akin to coin tokens. If there is a "+$1" Progress token, it would be almost identical to coin tokens. The difference is that this one can be spent during your action phase.
Note that if the 2 random Events are Barracks and Provisions, they would interact. Provisions lets you more efficiently put tokens onto your mat and still get the Barracks bonus.
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Adding +1 Card and +1 Action together seems way too good. You said +1 Card is too strong on non-terminals, but now you are guaranteeing that the target will be non-terminal.
I know this is crazy strong. But the token's effect itself is much safer to balance if it is the whole cantrip. Both effects on themselves would be very swingy (board dependent).
Getting the effects before is easier to track. Suppose you add a token to King's Court. It's somewhat easier to count the effects as soon as you play the card rather than trying to remember to resolve it at the end of the chain. It gets even more confusing if tokens somehow get added to cards in the middle of chains, because the effects should have been locked in when the card was first played but now you might not remember what tokens were that at the beginning.
So there are 2 possible routes. My idea is that you can't mock with the tokens during the Action phase to avoid chain confusions.
If there is a card that lets you move the tokens on play that is worth it, your solution should be better.
The advantage of my solution is that it makes more sense to draw 1 card after you played Pearl Diver, Vagrant, Library, Mystic or Minion. Maybe Tactician is an issue (but wait, Reserve cards could also let you draw cards after playing Tactician...).
I don't like "Gain a Silver" that much as an idea for a token, but I don't know why.
It is the Big Money token, the JoaT token. Not so good for Engines, but I'd like to see tokens that help in different strategies.
And it takes only 3 words!
Treacherous Swamp -- Interesting concept, but I'm unsure about the execution. This starts off as a $4 Duchy but it's near guaranteed to be worth only 2VP at the end. In most games, you can expect that your opponents will collectively gain at least 2 Provinces, thus removing both tokens from the card. So it's just a $4 2VP card in most games that sometimes costs $5 in the late game, and might be worth 3VP in exceptional circumstances. That's not that great.
Grandfather's Trail Mix -- Weird but interesting. I don't know how it would actually play out, though I expect it to be pretty weak. First play buffs Gold for the other players and hands out a Curse, but then they just bump the token down for each play. That doesn't seem like a big penalty. At the very least, you are safe for two more attacks at least. I can move the token from Gold to Silver (and have all my Silver be better than Gold!) and then later move the token from Silver to Copper.
That kind of buff to treasures makes me think that there needs to be a restriction against putting the tokens onto treasures. Or maybe the events all just need to cost more, I don't know.
For Treacherous Swamp, I meant it to be 2 tokens each. So you buy 4 VP for $3 first, but if other players buy 4 Provinces, it is 2 VP for $5. Scaling for different player numbers works badly here. Maybe this should be a direct attack to your neighbor?
Treacherous Swamp (Victory) $5
Worth 2 VP.
______________________
Setup: All players put 2 "Worth 1 VP" and 2 "Costs $1 less" tokens on this pile.
When a player gains a Province, the player to his left removes one token from this pile.
If we restrict the Progess tokens on Action piles (why should you be able to add +1 Action on a Victory or Treasure?), Grandfather's Trail Mix would be a bit meaner this way:
Grandfather's Trail Mix (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player chooses one of his Progress tokens and moves it to a cheaper Action card pile.
If he doesn't, he puts a "+$1 +1 Buy" token on any Action card pile and gains a Curse.
I'm not a fan of putting the Progress tokens onto the Reserve mat. The tokens are colored, so they are meant to go on supply piles. Everything that goes on the Reserve mat should be cards in my opinion. I mean, Wagoner from th OP is also like a +1 Action token.
I like that whenever a Progress token card gets too strong and you buy many of them, you risk loosing the effect if the pile gets empty. This is especially neat on Exploration Ship since you increase its supply pile every time you bump it up.
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I know this is crazy strong. But the token's effect itself is much safer to balance if it is the whole cantrip. Both effects on themselves would be very swingy (board dependent).
I don't think that's true. You just need to balance for the stronger situations, though not necessarily the strongest. Sometimes they'll be too expensive to be worth it on a given board, but that's fine. Sometimes they'll be really good despite the cost, and that's fine too.
Variation in strength doesn't make them swingy. Board dependence is not the same thing as swinginess. Putting them together and making it one crazy strong token could actually make it swingier. The game may swing on who is able to afford and leverage the token first, because getting it can upgrade a bunch of cards in your deck at once, making it a much bigger deal than the first Goons or KC, or even the first connected Tournament (which is considered one of the swingier things in Dominion).
It is the Big Money token, the JoaT token. Not so good for Engines, but I'd like to see tokens that help in different strategies.
And it takes only 3 words!
Since they are mere tokens, I figure that they would have to use pure iconography instead of words anyway, maybe with a reference chart printed on the Reserve Mats.
I think my problem with "gain a silver" as token is that it is deceptively powerful. Add it to almost any card and that card is essentially better than Explorer. :P
For Treacherous Swamp, I meant it to be 2 tokens each. So you buy 4 VP for $3 first, but if other players buy 4 Provinces, it is 2 VP for $5. Scaling for different player numbers works badly here. Maybe this should be a direct attack to your neighbor?
Treacherous Swamp (Victory) $5
Worth 2 VP.
______________________
Setup: All players put 2 "Worth 1 VP" and 2 "Costs $1 less" tokens on this pile.
When a player gains a Province, the player to his left removes one token from this pile.
If we restrict the Progess tokens on Action piles (why should you be able to add +1 Action on a Victory or Treasure?), Grandfather's Trail Mix would be a bit meaner this way:
Grandfather's Trail Mix (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player chooses one of his Progress tokens and moves it to a cheaper Action card pile.
If he doesn't, he puts a "+$1 +1 Buy" token on any Action card pile and gains a Curse.
Ahh, I see that on Treacherous Swamp now. I think the problem is that it's a "win more" card in 2p. Alt VPs are nice for providing an alternative path to victory, a way to win even if you fall behind on Provinces/Colonies. This Swamp doesn't do that. It might be more interesting if you reversed one part of it -- each other player adds a token when you gain a Province, or you only remove a token when you yourself gain a Province.
I'm still not sure about Grandfather's Trail Mix, and that's because it still sounds too weak to me. I think "+$1, +1 Buy" is still a really nice addition, and it's not too tough to play around it. I would very rarely buy it, and would usually be happy if an opponent bought it. I think the free token placement would be worth far more than the penalty of a few Curses trickling in slowly.
I'm not a fan of putting the Progress tokens onto the Reserve mat. The tokens are colored, so they are meant to go on supply piles. Everything that goes on the Reserve mat should be cards in my opinion. I mean, Wagoner from th OP is also like a +1 Action token.
I like that whenever a Progress token card gets too strong and you buy many of them, you risk loosing the effect if the pile gets empty. This is especially neat on Exploration Ship since you increase its supply pile every time you bump it up.
The tokens are coloured so they can go on Supply piles and be counted for each individual player, but that doesn't mean they can't be used for other things. Using them with the Reserve mat has different trade-offs. Losing the card from your deck to keep the bonus is a big deal, and getting cards onto the mat can have opportunity cost too (especially if you are using those events to do it, rather than using actual Reserve cards).
I do think your Exploration Ship is neat.
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So, after some time thinking about it, I'd do these tokens twice each:
+1 Card.
+1 Action.
+$1 +1 Buy.
Gain a Duchy.
Gain a copy of this.
I expect some wackier things (hey, it's Donald, there must be wacky things). Therefore and to make all effects on play, the "Worth 1 VP" and "costs $1 less" changed into gainers. Maybe it could be "Instead of playing this, gain a copy of this" as well. But I still think the tokens shouldn't get too complex. And the piles can run out quickly.
I've updated the OP and added a new Wagoner card:
Fair (Action) $2
+1 Action
+$1
Every time you put a Wagoner into play this turn, +1 Card.
When you discard this from play, for each unused Action, gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile.
Note, Wagoner is still like this:
Wagoner (Action - Reserve) 0*
When you put this into play, +1 Action and return this to the Wagoner pile.
(This is not part of the supply.)
Will add new Events and more token cards later.
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As there are 50 cards left to use in the set (minus Victory extra copies, minus Wagoner), there should be some more extra stuff. If we've got player colors, something like that comes into my mind:
Courier (Action - Attack) $5
+2 Cards
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Offering (Action) $0*
Gain a Silver.
Player Blue draws 2 cards.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
There would be 5 Offerings in 6 colors, i.e. 30 Offerings. So yet enough space for 16 Wagoners and 2 VP cards!
Alternately, those extra cards could be used to go onto the Reserve tableau forever for permanent effects...
I've got 17 Events currently. Any other ideas?
Market Day (Event) $1
The first time you play this in your turn, +2 Buys.
Manipulation (Event - Attack) $1
Each other player reveals the top card of his deck and discards it if it costs $2 or more and is not a Victory card.
Wagoner (Event) $2
Gain a Wagoner from the Wagoner pile. Play it.
Survey (Event) $2
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and discard any number of them. Put the rest back in any order.
Ball (Event) $2
Look through your discard pile. Put a card from it on top of your deck.
Round Table (Event) $2
+1 Buy. Put your deck into your discard pile.
Offering (Event - Attack) $3
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Carriage (Event) $3
Place one of your +1 Action tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Invention (Event) $3
Place one of your +1 Card tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Treaty (Event) $3
Place one of your +$1 +1 Buy tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Accolade (Event) $3
Place one of your Gain a Duchy tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Scholar (Event) $3
Place one of your Gain a copy of this tokens on an Action pile in the supply.
Remodeling (Event) $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Holy Mass (Event) $4
Trash any number of cards you have in play.
Expedition (Event) $4
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Reserve (Event) $4
When you discard an Action card from play during this Cleanup phase, put it on your Reserve tableau.
When an Action card is on your Reserve tableau that is not a Reserve card, you may play it during your Action phase (for free).
Damnation (Event - Attack) $5
Each other player gains a Curse card.
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Tbh there was so much written by the time I got here, I didn't read it all. But I love speculating, and here are some random thoughts on things that stuck out to me.
+1 Card.
+1 Action.
+$1 +1 Buy.
Gain a Duchy.
Gain a copy of this.
I think these are unlikely, because they remind me of Ruins, which are "bad" cards. I think/hope the tokens do something more original and exciting, although these are very simple and Donald likes simple. Gaining a Duchy in particular I think is very unlikely. See the Hinterlands outtakes about a Victory card that came with a Duchy. Running out 2 piles at once was no good, so Border Village gets around this by letting you pick a variety of piles to gain from.
Since I skimmed through this I might be wrong, but I think my impression of Events was different. I imagined Events weren't going to be like the other Dominion cards. Sure the information will probably be on cards, but they won't go in decks or come from the Supply -- I'm thinking like a different card frame and everything. I feel like they'll be able to be used in any game (even ones without Adventure cards), like Platinum/Colony in Prosperty-less game, although the rules may suggest some condition to include them. Therefore I feel like they won't need particular Kingdom cards to trigger them. Without thinking this through, here's a rough idea:
- In games using Events, randomly shuffle together some of the Events (probably same as the number of Curses you use). You know, Donald and Dominion are big on variety.
- Events might be things like "Victory cards cost $1 more", "All players start their turns with +$1", "Pay $6 during your Buy phase so each player gains a Curse". (Obv not Dominion-wording.)
- Then each event has a trigger for when you discard it/put it on the bottom and reveal the next Event. I dunno, maybe "when a player buys a Victory card", "a player may pay $5", or in the case of the last example above, just when it happens.
- Some Events would probably also reference these tokens and idk how exactly they might be used. Initial thoughts are that they go on piles and do things like "copies cost $1 less for you, $1 more for them" (since that was an outtake card, but this would become more complicated when multiple colors of tokens are on a pile, so it'd probably be something simpler).
Reserve cards I imagined just being like normal that sit around on your Reserve mat when you buy them until you want to play them. Basically like Activation cards but rather than sitting in play, they sit on a mat. Maybe you pay a cost to get to play it, or the benefit is simply getting to use it whenever you want, or maybe some do something cool while it's on your mat but some other awesome one-shot thing so you're like "do I lose this lasting ability to use this awesome thing once?" But if that's the first thing I think of, then it's probably not right. Plus the playtesters seem to tease Reserve cards more than the Durations and Events, so I feel like they must be particularly inventive or exciting (as in, not the idea I just suggested).
Ugh, I feel less confident about my guesses as I reread them. I'm sure parts of this are embarrassingly wrong but if anything is in the realm of resembling something from Adventures, I will feel accomplished. I'm guessing (hoping?) there will be a Durations preview, a Reserves preview, a tokens preview, and an Events preview so we can get all our questions answered.
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* Please note the above post is not by eHalcyon :P
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The Adventures blurb states that Events are things you can buy that are not cards. They are not the kind of global-effect events which were being considered for Intrigue. I believe I suggested that these Adventures things be called "Events", so you can blame me for the confusion if you like.
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These cards are called Events, but you're saying they don't have a global effect? Nothing makes sense anymore and I am so confused! Why did you do this to me, LastFootnote, whyyyyyyyyyyy?
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I already voted in that other thread that I was most excited for Events because I didn't know how they'd work. And now I have even less of an idea how they work and I love it. :)
So if they're not cards, then how is the information presented? I know they may not be cards like the Kingdom, but I imagine the rules for each Event will appear on some kind of reference card.
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So if they're not cards, then how is the information presented? I know they may not be cards like the Kingdom, but I imagine the rules for each Event will appear on some kind of reference card.
Events are things you can buy that are not cards.
I'm still quite confident in what I guessed.
"Play with 2 random Event cards if one randomly drawn card of the kingdom is from Adventures.
Events can be bought like the other cards, but instead of gaining them, you immediately play them (they are not considered "in play" though). Events can never be gained."
So basically an Event would be a one-time Action that you buy and do it immediately. Like "trash cards you have in play", or "draw more cards this Cleanup", or "put a token of your color on a pile".
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Events are things you can buy that are not cards.
I'm still quite confident in what I guessed. ... Events can be bought like the other cards ...
This is the contradiction I can't reconcile.
But maybe I'm just being pedantic and we're actually all on the same page, i.e. we think Events will be printed on cards and the playtesters are just emphasizing that they aren't "compatible" with cards we've seen before.
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I thought we had already reached the conclusion that Events were basically "effects" you could buy, sort of like when-you-buy one-shots. But maybe I'm misremembering?
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Events are things you can buy that are not cards.
I'm still quite confident in what I guessed. ... Events can be bought like the other cards ...
This is the contradiction I can't reconcile.
But maybe I'm just being pedantic and we're actually all on the same page, i.e. we think Events will be printed on cards and the playtesters are just emphasizing that they aren't "compatible" with cards we've seen before.
I figure Events will be cards only in the sense that the Trash Pile Card is a card. They won't be cards in the sense of things that go into your deck during a game. I'm guessing they'll be printed with different backs, too.
By the way, the Adventures blurb actually says that Event cards give you something to buy besides cards. Which isn't confusing at all.
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Events are things you can buy that are not cards.
I'm still quite confident in what I guessed. ... Events can be bought like the other cards ...
This is the contradiction I can't reconcile.
But maybe I'm just being pedantic and we're actually all on the same page, i.e. we think Events will be printed on cards and the playtesters are just emphasizing that they aren't "compatible" with cards we've seen before.
I figure Events will be cards only in the sense that the Trash Pile Card is a card. They won't be cards in the sense of things that go into your deck during a game. I'm guessing they'll be printed with different backs, too.
By the way, the Adventures blurb actually says that Event cards give you something to buy besides cards. Which isn't confusing at all.
And my guess from that was that the Event cards let you buy various effects, including tokens that can modify your cards' effects.
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Any thoughts on this?
As there are 50 cards left to use in the set (minus Victory extra copies, minus Wagoner), there should be some more extra stuff. If we've got player colors, something like that comes into my mind:
Courier (Action - Attack) $5
+2 Cards
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Offering (Action) $0*
Gain a Silver.
Player Blue draws 2 cards.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
There would be 5 Offerings in 6 colors, i.e. 30 Offerings. So yet enough space for 16 Wagoners and 2 VP cards!
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Strictly weaker than witch.
I would make Offering "weaker", and drop the price of courier. For example, put courier at 4$, and make Offering nonterminal and give only 1 card to the Courier player.
With only 5 offerings, it doesn't seem like Courier scales very well with number of players, no?
The concept is very interesting, though.
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Strictly weaker than witch.
Not in Herald games.
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Strictly weaker than witch.
Not in Herald games.
I scorned the power of the thrice-accursed Forbidden Word, and now I am striken down for my Hubris.
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I wanted to make Offerings feel like a deal, so that the player who plays it also gets a benefit for letting the Attacker draw. Turning a dead card into a Silver sounded good to me. Maybe it should be a one time thing though.
What about just:
Offering (Action) $0*
For you and Player Blue, +2 Cards.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
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It doesn't matter what Offering does. The other players can always choose not to play it, ever. In that case, Offering is basically Confusion. So Courier is, at best, a Witch that hands out confusions instead of curses. But it's even worse than that, because Offering gives a choice to the other players, while Confusion doesn't, it's just dead in your hand.
Unless the other players were somehow forced to play Offering, it doesn't matter what Offering does, Courier will still be "nearly" strictly worse than Witch. That's why I argue for making Offering more attractive for the other players, and drop Courier's cost to 4$.
The problem of how this scales with the number of players still remains, though. I kind of understand why you want to keep the number of Offerings low, but I am not sure it's enough.
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Offering could have a different backside, in player color. When somebody starts his turn with it, the colored player draws a card.
I like the idea to give out player colored cards that give that player an advantage. No, more, i think it's brilliant.
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Offering could have a different backside, in player color. When somebody starts his turn with it, the colored player draws a card.
I like the idea to give out player colored cards that give that player an advantage. No, more, i think it's brilliant.
Thanks!
A different backside sounds good as well. For fairness, maybe it should trigger when such a card is drawn from the deck, i.e. also during their turn. That disencourages players to go for engines, though.
It doesn't matter what Offering does. The other players can always choose not to play it, ever. In that case, Offering is basically Confusion. So Courier is, at best, a Witch that hands out confusions instead of curses. But it's even worse than that, because Offering gives a choice to the other players, while Confusion doesn't, it's just dead in your hand.
Unless the other players were somehow forced to play Offering, it doesn't matter what Offering does, Courier will still be "nearly" strictly worse than Witch. That's why I argue for making Offering more attractive for the other players, and drop Courier's cost to 4$.
The problem of how this scales with the number of players still remains, though. I kind of understand why you want to keep the number of Offerings low, but I am not sure it's enough.
Now I understand. Sure my first attempt to Courier fits better into the $4 class.
With 6 player colors, you need quite a bunch Offering cards. 5 per color is the absolute minimum, so you can hand out at least one to each other player. These are 30 cards, and 30 cards equals almost 3 kingdom card slots! That's how Donald calculates. The maximum would be 8 per color, so 48 cards total.
What is the scaling problem? In 2p, you can play more "successful" Couriers. So you can hurt the other player more. In 6p, only the first Courier is totally "successful" but the other players will get more Offering cards from each other anyway. With more players, you'd benefit from Offerings slightly more frequently. The only real problem might be that, in multiplayer, the left neighbor will get most of your Offerings because they weren't all returned yet. But that's not huge, the same is true for Ambassador -> Ruins.
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Sorry, i think i didn't think this through. Because, while the card doesn't tell you that you can shuffle it where you want (like with Stash), nothing keeps you from doing it if it has a different backside. You can just keep on shuffeling until it is where you want it. So i guess my idea doesn't really work.
It would be okay as an online promo, but for a physical solution a different backside would have to come either with a Stash ability, or tell you to shuffle eyes closed. Another option: You could have the colored player stack his cards in your deck - but of course that takes way longer and makes the colored player going last to arrange his cards have an advantage over other colored players.
Sorry this idea wasn't as great as i thought it would be.
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Hey, maybe this would be nice: Replace starting Coppers with one "colored" Copper for each other player!
Contract (Treasure) $0
Worth $1
Player Blue draws a card.
There could be a bunch of kingdom cards reffering to them: An Attack that looks for your color in their hand or Durations/ Reactions that add bonuses for your Contracts.
But maybe this doesn't work because it sounds very political. Frequently, you have one or two Coppers more than you need. Then you can decide who you like less...
If we go back to the basic idea, I'd do that now:
Courier (Action - Attack) $4
+2 Cards
Each other player gains an Offering in your color from the Offering pile.
Offering (Action) $0*
+1 Action
For you and player blue: +2 cards.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
So it is not really an Attack if they accept your Offering.
Note that your Offering equals one Lab for them and 2 Labs for you!
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I think the idea is good, but a Moat that hands out one-shot Labs for $4 sounds awful. It might be okay, given how good Offering is for you, but it LOOKS terrible. Maybe improve the card that gives out offerings and make offering itself a bit weaker (for the player who gave it out)?
Or maybe just make Offerings effect smaller - maybe a cantrip that gives you and the other player a card? There's still a good reason to play it, as only playing it removes it from your deck, and giving somebody +1 card feels more acceptable than giving him +2 cards.
Either way, i think ii'd like a +1 card version. Courier would be like a weaker Witch that gives out Confusions if nobody played Offerings, and a Moat with delayed Lab effect if they did.
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You make good points. So rather this:
Offering (Action) $0*
+1 Action
For you and player blue: +1 card.
Return this to the Offering pile.
(This is not in the supply.)
(Goes into the OP.)
(Edit: Otoh it needs a different name then...)
On the starting copper idea, it should have no on-play effects for the other player. Profits only with special kingdom cards or events.
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More speculation fodder!
Previews start Monday! As a special treat for the weekend, here are some teasers - bits of information about the expansion that don't actually tell you any cards. I will not be further explaining this stuff! Well not until after the set is out, and by then it shouldn't need much explanation.
Some things you will find in Dominion: Adventures:
- 22 dividing lines
- 8 big arrows
- 7 cards with 3 types
- 3 treasures, including an attack and a village
- 2 12-card piles, including a victory card worth 0 VP the turn you buy it
- +$3, +$4, and +$5
- a card that gives the 2nd player an advantage
- a card you can play when it isn't your turn
- a card that draws you 5 cards when Throned
- word counts: Supply: 15; Game: 4; Turn: 31; Token: 16.
I guess the big arrows are for the 8 Reserve cards. Maybe the Reserve effect is written inside an arrow? Maybe the player tokens are arrows? Or it's a joke and they are only in the art?...
7 Cards with 3 types. I expect "Action-Reaction-Reserve" (which would handle the card you can play when it isn't your turn) and "Action-Attack-Reserve".
I do not expect "Action-Duration-Attack". (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12025.msg436047#msg436047)
The Treasure Village is this one for sure!
Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.
Treasure Attack is very hard to imagine. It can't be too harsh because it's non-terminal. Maybe something about new mechanics.
The varying VP pile could be scaling by tokens or maybe a Reserve card?
Faraway Lands (Victory - Reserve) $4
Worth 3 VP if this is not on your Reserve mat.
When you gain this, put it on your Reserve mat.
(Arrow) At the start of your turn, you may discard 2 cards. If you do, discard this.
A card that gives the 2nd player an advantage - Smugglers style?
Draw 5 cards when throned:
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
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Nowhere does it say that there are 8 Reserve cards?
Wow, River really does fit for that.
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Nowhere does it say that there are 8 Reserve cards?
That was just a guess. 8 sounds like a good amount of Reserve cards.
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I guess the big arrows are for the 8 Reserve cards. Maybe the Reserve effect is written inside an arrow? Maybe the player tokens are arrows? Or it's a joke and they are only in the art?...
I doubt it's a joke. I thought they would involve handing out the player tokens. I speculate that "big" arrow just means they're among the "+s" (i.e., in a bigger, bolder font at the beginning of the card).
The Treasure Village is this one for sure!
Falcon (Treasure) $3
Worth $1
+1 Action
When you play this, return to your Action phase.
Seems wonkier than what Donald usually goes for. I think the (perhaps less exciting, but fewer rules issues) Treasure-Duration option is more likely:
Treasure - Duration
$2
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Action.
Treasure Attack is very hard to imagine. It can't be too harsh because it's non-terminal. Maybe something about new mechanics.
My guess is a Treasure-Reserve that only attacks when you bring it into play. Because the non-terminal aspect of Treasures would indeed make it powerful.
Draw 5 cards when throned:
River (Action) $3
+2 Cards
Return this to your hand.™
I think this still only counts as "drawing" 4 cards. But that might just be pedantry.
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Expedition (Event) $3
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Well, thats funny...
(https://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/adventurespreview4.png?w=640&h=326)
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I will wager that Adventure and Campaign won't be among the events though. ;)
And I totally got the tokens correct, and called at least 4/10 of them. :))
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So there is a -1 Card token?
Sure there will be an Attack like army then.
Army (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player turns the top card of his deck face-up. When he would draw the face-up card, he turns it face down instead.
(Something like that could work with tokens as well.)
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Expedition (Event) $3
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Well, thats funny...
(https://dominionstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/adventurespreview4.png?w=640&h=326)
I think your wording is even a little clearer; considering how many people were wondering when Expedition actually happens.