Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: yuma on September 15, 2014, 10:48:09 pm

Title: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Serial Killer (ashersky) wins!
Post by: yuma on September 15, 2014, 10:48:09 pm
Mafia 51: Silo Mafia

Mods: yuma, mail-mi

This is a normal mafia game. The setup is invented and has been titled, Traitor8. See further set-up and deadline information in Post 2.

Players:
1. Eevee (VT) - Lynched on D4
2. Ichimaru Gin (Mafia Traitor) - Lynched on D3
3. ashersky (Serial Killer) wins!
4. faust (Mafia Goon) - Killed on N4
5. silverspawn (Jailkeeper) - Killed on N3
6. witherweaver (VT) - Endgamed
7. hydrad (Mafia Goon) - Lynched on D2
8. xerxes (VT) - Lynched on D1
9. ADK (VT) - Killed on N1
10. Jimmmmm (1-Shot Commuter) - Modkilled on D5
11. joth (Detective) - Killed on N3

tagged: 2.7, scott, kingzog

f.ds Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable, check with the mod if you need clarifications.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
3. If you have a role with a Night action, your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines). If we do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used. Generally, one team member may submit the Night Actions for all team members. See rule 7 under miscellaneous below if you anticipate being VLA while having a PR.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase, unless your Action is compulsory.
6. As a general rule you should aim for more than one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Please treat this game as a commitment. If you can't commit to this game because of outside activities/responsibilities, other forum games or other contributing factors please /out before the start of the game.


Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have 10 day deadlines and 2 days nights.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, brown text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. In the event of an incorrect vote count the mod has the right to revert the game state back to the state before the erroneous vote count. This means that any votes cast in the meantime will become void. Any time that was lost during this even will be added back onto for deadlines. Please note that if a mistake is not caught before a flip, the erroneous vote count will become binding.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill, or beyond.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. If you have a Power Role and go on VLA for longer than 2 days (the time period of a Night) please submit a temporary Night Action before leaving on VLA. This will be a placeholder action in the event that you will be absent during the night. Failure to submit an action before leaving will result in a "no action" that night.
8. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed.
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: yuma on September 15, 2014, 10:48:28 pm
This setups is an invented, open setup called Traitor8 for 11 players.

Please PM me if you have any concerns or questions. This setup can be modified if it appears to be broken or flawed. I would rather change something than run a broken setup so please don't hesitate to PM me. But please do not discuss theory or problems with the setup in the thread.

Mafia:
2 Mafia + 1 Roleblocking Traitor

Town:
Up to 8 players

One of the following rows or columns adding a scum add on depending on the row added:


xxxx               Column1         Column2         Column3         Column4         Add-On           
Row1              VT                  Detective         1-shot CommuterGoon Cop         1-shot Investigation Immune/SK
Row2                Watcher            JK                     VT                     Psychologist       2-shot JOAT       
Row3                1-shot Bulletproof Townie VT                     JK                     BodyguardTraitor Knows Mafia         
Row4                 1-shot CommuterPsychologist        Detective            VT                      Mafia Knows Traitor   
Add-On              2-shot JOAT       Mafia Knows Traitor/SKTraitorKnows Mafia/SK1-shot Investigation Immune      xxxxxxx           

To clarify here are the 8 options:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune


Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.


Mechanics:
- All roles will be used according to mafiascum specification unless otherwise noted below.
- Daystart
- Mafia JOAT is an option of Strongman and Ninja (each can only be used once) and is not an assigned role, instead it is universal for the mafia team. But is instead a role that any alive mafia player can use it while performing the night kill.
- Mafia Investigation Immune is universal. It will return results of "Not Goon" to Goon Cops, "Not Killed" to Detectives, "Can't Kill" to Psychologists and "Didn't Target Anyone" to Watchers.
- Traitor does not know the identity of Mafia Partners unless it is added on as a bonus. Traitor will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in a PM if that add-on is selected.
- Mafia does not know the identity of the Traitor unless it is added on as a bonus. The Mafia will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in their quicktopic if that add-on is selected.
- Flavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
- If the Mafia target the Traitor with a NK, the Traitor will not die unless mafia is using a strongman kill. Otherwise, the Traitor will be recruited and become a Mafia Roleblocker and be given access to the quicktopic.
- The Traitor can Roleblock a Mafia NK.
- If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive.
- Goon Cop will return results of Goon or Not Goon.
- Detective will return results of having killed or not killed.
- Psychlogist will return results of being capable of killing or not capable. But if a kill has been performed previously, the result will be falsified. Traitors are not capable of killing until they have been converted into Mafia Roleblockers
- Roles cannot target themselves.
- Roles will not be indicative of alignment, except for one exception that will not be disclosed. All other roles will be rolled randomly.
- Mafia will have fakeclaims.

Order of Operations: (roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)
Modifiers (Ninja/Strongman)
Commuter
Blocking (Jailkeeper, Roleblocking)
Protective (Bodyguard, Bulletproof)
Killing
Investigative (Watcher, Psychologist, Detective, Goon Cop)

Win Conditions:
- Town wins when all threats to the Silo have been eliminated.
- Mafia wins when Mafia (not counting the Traitor, unless the traitor has become a Mafia Roleblocker) controls at least half of the silo and the SK, if present, has been eliminated.
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
   * If Bernard is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
   * If Senator Thurman or Anna Thurman is the last mafia alive, the SK will win.
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: Eevee on September 16, 2014, 01:09:34 am
in!
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 16, 2014, 01:24:46 am
/interesting

Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: ashersky on September 16, 2014, 03:07:51 am
/in for flavor, but would give way if too many sign up.
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: faust on September 16, 2014, 05:11:22 am
/in
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: mail-mi on September 16, 2014, 09:10:07 am
/tag
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: yuma on September 16, 2014, 11:48:29 am
Got some good feedback already. Will make some slight tweaks that should help in a bit.

regardless this game won't start until we get the games that are going a bit further in, and some of the games I am not following (Zelda and Pokemon?) complete. One in D1 and two in D2. I think it would be good to have a bit of space from those.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: silverspawn on September 16, 2014, 12:50:46 pm
/in
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: Witherweaver on September 16, 2014, 12:51:10 pm
/in
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (5 Spots Available)
Post by: yuma on September 17, 2014, 09:23:12 pm
Changed a little bit to the setup to reflect some changes. Again, feel free to look it over and get back to me. Modified some stuff to prevent some potentially broken scenarios, removed a role that was unnecessary, modified win conditions and added an element to make solving the setup more difficult.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (5 Spots Available)
Post by: Hydrad on September 18, 2014, 01:24:21 am
/in!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (5 Spots Available)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 18, 2014, 04:46:10 pm
/tag. yuma game
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (5 Spots Available)
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 18, 2014, 11:21:42 pm
/in
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (3 Spots Available)
Post by: scott_pilgrim on September 18, 2014, 11:38:02 pm
/tag
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (3 Spots Available)
Post by: yuma on September 19, 2014, 12:50:58 am
Ok, hopefully the last change has been made. After a series of steps that made the setup increasingly more complex I decide to take a step backwards. I removed some of the unnecessary elements but kept the original premise and kept some added complexity by creating a 4x4 matrix rather than a 3x3 matrix. The central theme remains, as do all of the roles, now the spread just provides a little bit more in way of options.

The gist of the setup is the same, just added a little bit more diversity. It is late and my head is a bit tired so there may still be something I missed. Again, PM me if you have concerns. Since this is an open setup I want it as close to perfect as I can get it. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback thus far.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (3 Spots Available)
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 19, 2014, 11:41:51 pm
/in
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available)
Post by: Eevee on September 20, 2014, 05:01:12 pm
Join people, join! I'm about to be gameless.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available)
Post by: yuma on September 20, 2014, 09:59:15 pm
Also I should mention that this game will be unrunable without some sort of back up mod. There will likely be a few 1-2 day stretches where I won't have internet access and will need some assistance.

If anyone would be willing I would appreciate it! (aside from those who have already signed up to play)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available)
Post by: mail-mi on September 21, 2014, 11:19:09 am
Also I should mention that this game will be unrunable without some sort of back up mod. There will likely be a few 1-2 day stretches where I won't have internet access and will need some assistance.

If anyone would be willing I would appreciate it! (aside from those who have already signed up to play)
I'm willing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available Need Backup Mod)
Post by: EgorK on September 22, 2014, 05:04:03 pm
I'm willing being backup mod as well
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available Need Backup Mod)
Post by: Eevee on September 22, 2014, 05:15:26 pm
Would it be possible for me to play multiple spots?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available Need Backup Mod)
Post by: jotheonah on September 22, 2014, 05:27:59 pm
/in
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available Need Backup Mod)
Post by: KingZog3 on September 22, 2014, 05:34:12 pm
/tag (that's for spectating right?)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (2 Spots Available Need Backup Mod)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2014, 06:24:30 pm
/in

I'll soon be in no games, and my RL craziness looks like it's clearing up somewhat, so I should be able to give one game a suitable amount of focus.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: yuma on September 22, 2014, 07:20:14 pm
Game is full. PMs will be coming out later tonight or tomorrow. Once PMs are out the period for raising concerns about the setup will be passed. I think the kinks are worked out and feel pretty confident about the setup right now, so we should be good!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Robz888 on September 22, 2014, 07:28:22 pm
/tag

This will be the first normal game of Forum Mafia without me in it!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: liopoil on September 22, 2014, 07:29:39 pm
/tag for speccy
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Hydrad on September 22, 2014, 07:29:46 pm
/tag

This will be the first normal game of Forum Mafia without me in it!

50s a pretty good run.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: ashersky on September 22, 2014, 07:30:27 pm
/tag

This will be the first normal game of Forum Mafia without me in it!

I can trade with you if you want to keep the streak alive.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Robz888 on September 22, 2014, 07:33:47 pm
Nah, I'm going into semi-retirement with my wedding coming up. Lots of changes happening.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Hydrad on September 22, 2014, 07:34:42 pm
did robzzz img dissapear for anyone else?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Robz888 on September 22, 2014, 07:36:43 pm
did robzzz img dissapear for anyone else?

I changed it! For the first time... ever. Hopefully new one is showing up.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2014, 07:38:08 pm
did robzzz img dissapear for anyone else?

I changed it! For the first time... ever. Hopefully new one is showing up.

I don't know how to feel about this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 22, 2014, 07:41:12 pm
I don't know how to feel about this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: ashersky on September 22, 2014, 07:41:56 pm
vote: Robz
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2014, 07:43:24 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: silverspawn on September 22, 2014, 07:44:31 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Hydrad on September 22, 2014, 07:49:01 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: liopoil on September 22, 2014, 07:51:20 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Eevee on September 22, 2014, 07:52:15 pm
I feel it's a whole new person.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: ashersky on September 22, 2014, 07:55:08 pm
Robz888, I suggest you sign up for a newbie game as a newcomer to forum mafia here.  It'll help you get to know our style, and also the rules of the game.  After that, you should try one of these invented ones.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Eevee on September 22, 2014, 07:59:36 pm
And don't hesitate to ask any questions!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2014, 08:29:06 pm
wait, we are all doing a vote: robz?

Also, the new image is pretty cool.  And getting married does tend to cause changes to happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: silverspawn on September 22, 2014, 08:30:08 pm
I thought we were expressing our dislike for the new image with the votes.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2014, 08:31:32 pm
Robz888, I suggest you sign up for a newbie game as a newcomer to forum mafia here.  It'll help you get to know our style, and also the rules of the game.  After that, you should try one of these invented ones.

No, he should just switch over to RMM instead of normal games.  I have never played a RMM game with Robz.  Of course, I can't play mafia right now because of work so that doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: Archetype on September 22, 2014, 09:17:56 pm
Robz888, I suggest you sign up for a newbie game as a newcomer to forum mafia here.  It'll help you get to know our style, and also the rules of the game.  After that, you should try one of these invented ones.

No, he should just switch over to RMM instead of normal games.  I have never played a RMM game with Robz.  Of course, I can't play mafia right now because of work so that doesn't really matter.
That'll change once LOST mafia opens.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (PMs coming shortly)
Post by: yuma on September 22, 2014, 09:30:25 pm
PMs have been sent out. Night0 starts now. Day1 will start in about 24 hours. Thread is locked except for people wishing to tag. Please move any discussion of Robz's new avatar to the "Apparently this is where we talk at night thread."
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo Mafia - Signups Open (Night0)
Post by: Voltaire on September 22, 2014, 09:32:22 pm
/tag
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: yuma on September 23, 2014, 06:44:44 pm
Day1 Start

The area around the stairs was teaming with kids. The Crow had just let her class of rambunctious third years out for the day and they were making a racket. Some were dropping plastic bits down the stairwell--to the annoyance of porters trudging up the stairs. Others were pulling themselves up onto the bar to get the dizzying view dozens of floors down.

Suddenly a large group came rushing up the stairs. Kids were pushed up against the walls and railing. One small child nearly fell over! It appeared to be some sort of uprising. People were mad. There were shouts in the air! "We don't have enough food!" "Down with IT!" Everyone had a grievance. It was true. The silo was in a state of chaos the last few months. Nothing was were it should be and everyone was in a state of panic.

What the silo really needed though was a good cleaning. Someone to go outside and relieve some of the tension. It had been a while since a cleaning had happened and the silo was due.

Day1 Starts Now

Thread Unlocked



Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (11): Eevee, Ichimaru, ashersky, faust, silverspawn, witherweaver, hydrad, xerxes, ADK, Jimmmmm, joth

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Teproc on September 23, 2014, 06:47:32 pm
/tag

(stole first, haha !)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 06:51:53 pm
The real first!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 06:52:03 pm
Vote: Eevee

For lurking this game

PPE: dang
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 06:53:07 pm
Not Voting (11): Eevee, Ichimaru, ashersky, faust, silverspawn, witherweaver, hydrad, xerxes, ADK, Jimmmmm, joth

You are all people I already know fairly well, I feel this is a first in a long while.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
We have a new setup here. Seems to lend itself well for theory talk, which I'm looking forward to, but everyone remember to be very careful about not hinting at your role or the lack of one.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2014, 06:58:03 pm
Vote: Hydrad for an inflated case on Eevee.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 06:59:40 pm
Vote: Robz for buddying me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:00:06 pm
Oh wait.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2014, 07:01:01 pm
Heh.

Don't worry, I'll change back soon.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:02:01 pm
By the way, it isn't scummy from you.

We caught the SK, of course we are buddies!*highfive*
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:16:49 pm
Damn it. I so thought Jimmmmm was Robz just now, and probably will continue to until he changes his avatar.

vote: Jimmmmm

Also, I'm with Eeevee in that it's interesting that I know everyone in this game fairly well
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:26:29 pm
I am Donald, a Vanilla Townie.

sup?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2014, 07:26:36 pm
vote: fuzzy

pretty clear scum play here from Eevee.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2014, 07:26:58 pm
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:27:34 pm
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?

would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:27:40 pm
I am Donald, a Vanilla Townie.

sup?
What the hell?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:28:23 pm
vote: fuzzy

pretty clear scum play here from Eevee.
If you look at my most recent games, I think you'll find I'm pretty clearly town, and on a winning streak to top that!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 07:29:00 pm
i'm assuming SS was just joking?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2014, 07:29:33 pm
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?

would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?

actually yeah, that would save us a whole heap of trouble if accurate.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:30:05 pm
i'm assuming SS was just joking?
I don't think so. Lying maybe, but I don't think you joke about stuff like that (and get away with it).

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:30:37 pm
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?

would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?

actually yeah, that would save us a whole heap of trouble if accurate.

it's not. too bad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:31:15 pm
What was your reason for claiming VT?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:31:38 pm
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?

would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?

actually yeah, that would save us a whole heap of trouble if accurate.

it's not. too bad.
Only one way to find out. . . ;D
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:33:08 pm
What was your reason for claiming VT?

I don't think I want to answer that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:34:19 pm
What was your reason for claiming VT?

I don't think I want to answer that.
Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 07:36:07 pm
well I guess this is one way to end the RVS stage almost immediatly
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2014, 07:39:02 pm
What am I missing about the flavor, btw?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:40:13 pm
What was your reason for claiming VT?

I don't think I want to answer that.
Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).

maybe scum thinks so too, i'll be lynched day one, and the NK flies out of the window for a newbie and a VT. profit.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:40:40 pm
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:41:13 pm
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 07:41:24 pm
be also prepared that I'll play differently from my previous games.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:41:27 pm
Silverspawn, what you are doing will lead us down a dark route.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:42:22 pm
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:42:57 pm
What am I missing about the flavor, btw?
I've heard a fair amount about the series but never actually read it.
I checked the wiki though and Donald is a character in the books (but obv. not Donald X.) which I think is what may have made it confusing.

PPE:

Silverspawn, what you are doing will lead us down a dark route.
Ok I am incredibly confused right now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 07:43:35 pm
suddenly trying to change you meta or having a meta chance can sometimes be a first time scum thing. Just letting you know. I guess its nice of you to let us know before hand?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:44:29 pm
When he makes us guess whether he is lying town, truthful town or scum, he makes us give out information about our own roles.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:45:24 pm
suddenly trying to change you meta or having a meta chance can sometimes be a first time scum thing. Just letting you know. I guess its nice of you to let us know before hand?
The other side of the coin of course being "why would he direct the attention to himself like that if he was scum?".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 07:45:34 pm
I'm here.  I might have a plan.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 07:45:50 pm
I'm here.  I might have a plan.

I'm interested
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 07:46:06 pm
Listening!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2014, 07:46:51 pm
Unprompted early D1 VT claim? Not good. Vote: silverspawn
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 07:47:37 pm
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 07:48:43 pm
Silverspawn's claim throws a wrench into things, generally.

I was looking at the setup, which is a Matrix6 variant.  I think we need to discuss the importance (or lack thereof) of knowing what bonus the mafia received.  If we think it's important to know, I think there are some ways to suss out some info.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2014, 07:52:26 pm
Unprompted early D1 VT claim? Not good. Vote: silverspawn

"Hey, Robz is thinking along the same lines as me. Oh wait."
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 07:53:31 pm
Unprompted early D1 VT claim? Not good. Vote: silverspawn

"Hey, Robz is thinking along the same lines as me. Oh wait."

Yeah, I thought that was Robz, too.

You gotta change back.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 07:54:36 pm
What am I missing about the flavor, btw?

It's a spoiler, so only read if you really care: Cleaning is a death sentence.  We all live in a silo underground that protects us from the nuclear wasteland that was Earth.  If you go out to clean the screens that project the outside image onto the big screen in the silo, you don't come back.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 23, 2014, 08:02:06 pm
I missed the part about what the flavor even is.

vote: Jimmmmm until he changes his avatar, for reals.

silverspawn claiming VT seems like a ridiculous newbie play, I'm not sure if it comes from scum or from town. I don't like it but I don't think it points one way or the other.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 08:02:56 pm
silverspawn was counting letters in C++, this definitely wasn't an accident from him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 23, 2014, 08:04:33 pm
silverspawn was counting letters in C++, this definitely wasn't an accident from him.

I mean, was anybody under the impression that it was?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 08:05:22 pm
I thought you meant that when you called it a ridiculous newbie play.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 08:06:58 pm
This feels like the early teens of mafia games.  There were like two in a row with early VT claims -- one was a VT (Eevee?) and one was mafia.

I don't like the claim.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 23, 2014, 08:07:43 pm
It was PPS.

I don't like the claim either.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 08:07:59 pm
Quote
I don't like the claim.

I feel deeply sorry for you
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 08:09:06 pm
while I didn't like the claim I can't imagine SS doing it as a first time scum. I'm guessing this is town silver.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 23, 2014, 08:13:22 pm
So what now?

By claiming, silverspawn has definitely placed himself at the center of attention for today. I just have trouble seeing a town motive for it though.

What was your reason for claiming VT?

I don't think I want to answer that.
Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).

maybe scum thinks so too, i'll be lynched day one, and the NK flies out of the window for a newbie and a VT. profit.
I do not understand this post at all. Why would he be lynched today if scum thinks he is lying?

Oh wait. I see now. So he thinks its good because we'll either lynch him today and only lose a VT. Or scum will NK him because they think he's a lying PR and then we'll also only lose a VT.

But the WIFOM here is insane.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 23, 2014, 08:28:54 pm
<---- Haven't read the setup.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: yuma on September 23, 2014, 08:29:01 pm
Vote Count 1.1

Eevee (2): Hydrad, joth
Jimmmm (2): Ichimaru, ADK
Ichimaru (1): Eevee
silverspawn (1): Jimmmmm

Not Voting (5): ashersky, faust, silverspawn, witherweaver, xerxes

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.

PS: Flavor will not be spoiler free, but will be kept on the tame side.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 08:35:14 pm
<---- Haven't read the setup.

Yeah...you should read the setup.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 08:36:52 pm
Quote
Oh wait. I see now. So he thinks its good because we'll either lynch him today and only lose a VT. Or scum will NK him because they think he's a lying PR and then we'll also only lose a VT.

I didn't say this is the reason. I only said it's something that could happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 09:00:32 pm
One question I have about the setup.

What does the JK mean in the possible roles?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 09:00:51 pm
oh never mind. I'm guessing thats jailkeeper :/
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 09:02:51 pm
One question I have about the setup.

What does the JK mean in the possible roles?

Way to claim not-jailkeeper.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 09:03:02 pm
People need to be careful about this stuff.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 23, 2014, 09:04:13 pm
People need to be careful about this stuff.

this may have been an intentional slip to obscure his role.
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 09:04:39 pm
Here's the important stuff from the setup.


xxxx               Column1         Column2         Column3         Column4         Add-On           
Row1              VT                  Detective         1-shot CommuterGoon Cop         1-shot Investigation Immune/SK
Row2                Watcher            JK                     VT                     Psychologist       2-shot JOAT       
Row3                1-shot Bulletproof Townie VT                     JK                     BodyguardTraitor Knows Mafia         
Row4                 1-shot CommuterPsychologist        Detective            VT                      Mafia Knows Traitor   
Add-On              2-shot JOAT       Mafia Knows Traitor/SKTraitorKnows Mafia/SK1-shot Investigation Immune      xxxxxxx           

To clarify here are the 8 options:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 09:04:54 pm
People need to be careful about this stuff.

this may have been an intentional slip to obscure his role.

Then it was clumsily done.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 23, 2014, 09:06:24 pm
Ya ok I think I know everything about the setup now. My bad
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 23, 2014, 09:09:07 pm
So actual add-on list:

1-Shot Investigation Immune
1-Shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
Traitor Knows Mafia
Traitor Knows Mafia + SK
Mafia Knows Traitor
Mafia Knows Traitor + SK
2-Shot JOAT

Looking at that list--I'm not so sure we care about any of them.  Like...I don't care if the mafia and traitor know about each other -- at worst that's like a normal game where all scum know each other, and yet it isn't.  The JOAT is strongish, and we need to keep in mind that results may be wrong based on the Immune thing.  We'll know from nightkills if we have an SK.

Am I missing something on the value of learning which setup we're playing?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 23, 2014, 09:50:02 pm
I thought you meant that when you called it a ridiculous newbie play.

I'm not saying it wasn't intentional or purposeful, just that newbie's sometimes do things that they think are a good idea when they're not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 12:18:21 am
I don't like the claim but I don't see scum doing it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2014, 12:53:47 am
On my way home, I'll change my avatar when I'm there.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 04:33:44 am
Well... I think setup talk has little utility (agree with ash there). Once we have investigative results, we might want to figure out whether scum is investigation-immune... maybe. Not now though.

vote:silverspawn can't explain right now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 05:03:56 am
I do have to say silverspawn's play reminds my of my own play in Dynasty Warriors. Good times.

Also find everyone stating "I didn't read the setup" suspicious. Man, if you're town, just go read it instead of boasting of your ignorance. And as scum, it's a way to obscure the fact that you have been analyzing the setup all N0.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 09:04:52 am
<---------- Has read the setup.

I would also like to boast of my ignorance of flavor.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:35:15 am
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 10:36:50 am
I have read the setup but don't see a super-obvious way to benefit from claiming, especially since the only protective role is bodyguard.

PPE: move forward and lynch someone I suppose.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 10:37:06 am
ash you said something about a plan?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:38:24 am
Your Clever Little Plan Falls to Pieces
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 10:40:23 am
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?

Lynch all Ponies!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:41:35 am
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?

Lynch all Ponies!

good thing I'm a vampire bat
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 10:42:02 am
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?

Lynch all Ponies!

good thing I'm a vampire bat

You dodged the bullet there.

So why did you claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:42:59 am
Quote from: silverspawn
I don't think I want to answer that
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 10:43:30 am
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:44:09 am
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)

I think it's very believable for scum!you to press the issue.

aren't you scum in most of your games anyway?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 10:44:22 am
I do have to say silverspawn's play reminds my of my own play in Dynasty Warriors. Good times.

Also find everyone stating "I didn't read the setup" suspicious. Man, if you're town, just go read it instead of boasting of your ignorance. And as scum, it's a way to obscure the fact that you have been analyzing the setup all N0.

What happened in Dynasty Warriors?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 10:44:39 am
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)

I think it's very believable for scum!you to press the issue.

aren't you scum in most of your games anyway?

The times, they are a-changin'
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:45:59 am
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)

I think it's very believable for scum!you to press the issue.

aren't you scum in most of your games anyway?

The times, they are a-changin'

this is clearly an attempt to make me like you more and stop suspecting you.

it's kind of working, but it also makes you scummier.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 10:46:34 am
someone just joined my game. this conversation will have to wait.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 11:17:17 am
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"

The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 11:18:10 am
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"

The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."

Ooh! Ooh!  I know!  Ashersky!

Oh, he doesn't do the last part :(
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:27:33 am
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"

The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
So I see we agree on silver then.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 11:29:24 am
I do have to say silverspawn's play reminds my of my own play in Dynasty Warriors. Good times.

Also find everyone stating "I didn't read the setup" suspicious. Man, if you're town, just go read it instead of boasting of your ignorance. And as scum, it's a way to obscure the fact that you have been analyzing the setup all N0.

What happened in Dynasty Warriors?

I was a VT, ash said he was 100% sure I am scum, I fakeclaimed Vengeful and threatened to kill ash... it was all very hilarious, and in the end they lynched me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 11:31:24 am
Was ash scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:32:22 am
Was ash scum?
No. He was town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 11:34:15 am
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"

The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
So I see we agree on silver then.
Depends! What are you thinking?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 11:35:40 am
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7

I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:40:37 am
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7

I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.

Checking reveals that he has changed his avatar back, so I am free to vote elsewhere now. Didn't you policy vote Jimmmmm as well for the same reason? We're probably in different time zones though, cause when I went to bed, he was still Robz.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 11:42:02 am
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Vote: silverspawn

ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 11:42:19 am
So, do you want to vote for silverspawn then, Ichi?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 11:43:33 am
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Vote: silverspawn

ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?

That actually makes some sense..
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 11:47:14 am
I don't think lynching a Vanilla Townie is going to help us kill scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 11:48:17 am
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:48:52 am
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Vote: silverspawn

ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
My vote was about as close to a policy vote as I've ever done. It's confusing as heck having a fake Robz running around.

I find your theory on SS highly plausible. It would explain his refusal to give reasoning for his "claim" and him claiming in the first place. He had to have known that he would get heat for it though. The SK win condition seems pretty chancy given that if some mafia die first, they have no chance of winning. So maybe he just decided to have fun with things.

PPE: I am ready to vote for silverspawn. I find this a little odd, since it's like SK hunting--but I think ADK's theory makes the most sense so far.

PPE: more
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 11:50:39 am
I definitely wouldn't do what Silver did as an SK, though.  The only reason I'd buy it at all is because he did something very similar as a Survivor in Bastard Mafia.  It didn't work out to well for him there, though, so I wonder if he'd be bold enough to try something like that in a regular game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 11:51:45 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 11:53:30 am
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:54:07 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Then what do you think the explanation is?
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)

I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 11:55:27 am
You don't seem to be thinking about silverspawn's potential reasons for his play very thoroughly.

Is your theory that he thought he could just get away with it no questions asked, and when he we asked for reasons he panicked and couldn't think of anything but "nope, not telling you!"?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 11:55:39 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Then what do you think the explanation is?
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)

I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.

That should be obvious.. sheeping someone else's argument is standard scum; you're less accountable and less in the spotlight than the person that proposed it in the first place.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 11:56:13 am
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?

Kant has it all wrong! *sorryiknowimnotsilverspawn*
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 11:56:38 am
And what are "all these" poor votes against you?  I only remember two, and they're both justified.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:57:47 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Then what do you think the explanation is?
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)

I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.

That should be obvious.. sheeping someone else's argument is standard scum; you're less accountable and less in the spotlight than the person that proposed it in the first place.
I am not sheeping his argument.

He asked me what I thought of it!!


See, you're just proving my point. So now I'm scummy because someone asked me a simple question, and I answered it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 11:57:59 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Then what do you think the explanation is?
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)

I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.

I do not think discussing that kind of stuff would be good.

I'm voting you because you're sheeping a particularly weakly-reasoned case, and are SK hunting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 11:58:24 am
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5

What? Why?

I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi

But I'm not scummy for proposing it?

Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?

+1

You don't seem to be thinking about silverspawn's potential reasons for his play very thoroughly.

Is your theory that he thought he could just get away with it no questions asked, and when he we asked for reasons he panicked and couldn't think of anything but "nope, not telling you!"?

Either that, or it was an all-or-nothing play. He would attract attention, but might be able to get away with "too erratic to be scum", then be scott-free the rest of the game. Which isn't necessarily good from someone who has team members to help them out, but if you're a SK you might want to take the longshot anyway.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 11:59:26 am
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi
Then what do you think the explanation is?
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)

I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.

I do not think discussing that kind of stuff would be good.

I'm voting you because you're sheeping a particularly weakly-reasoned case, and are SK hunting.
omfg I hope this is a joke. Or you obviously did not read my last post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:01:06 pm
I do not think discussing that kind of stuff would be good.
In other words you're refusing to answer a perfectly good question. And remaining slippery with no opinions of your own, just attacking me to draw attention away from yourself.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:01:36 pm
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:02:08 pm
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.

Could
you
please
just
read
what
I
said?
And think about it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:03:04 pm
Yes, that's the point of me voting for you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:07:14 pm
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?

I think every ethical norm except for classical utilitarianism is either wrong or a logical consequence from it. though the categorical imperative is particularly stupid.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:08:23 pm
vote: Ichimaru Gin
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:09:00 pm
Yes, that's the point of me voting for you.
So the fact that ADK asked me what I thought of his case and I answered his question has no meaning to you whatsoever? I am not even voting silverspawn, as everyone is trying to pressure me to do, so the term "sheeping" is even more incorrect.

Ok. Well I guess there's no point in me responding to any more accusation against me, since no one actually reads anything--or if they do, they forget it the next instant.

Where's Volt when I need him?

PPE:  :P
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:12:23 pm
Yes, that's the point of me voting for you.
So the fact that ADK asked me what I thought of his case and I answered his question has no meaning to you whatsoever? I am not even voting silverspawn, as everyone is trying to pressure me to do, so the term "sheeping" is even more incorrect.

Ok. Well I guess there's no point in me responding to any more accusation against me, since no one actually reads anything--or if they do, they forget it the next instant.

Where's Volt when I need him?

PPE:  :P

Faust's case is not that you answered a question, but how you answered it.  Eevee's case was that you were laying some groundwork to vote for Silverspawn later; like, if it became later in the day and a (mis, from this perspective) lynch needed to go through.

If you're going to claim that other people don't read your posts, you should take some amount of effort in reading other people's post.

My case is that being indignant and defensive is VERY easy to replicated, and it's your town meta, and this is the most ridiculous case of defensiveness I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:13:26 pm
And I don't know what Silverspawn's case is.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:18:05 pm
How many votes is that one me?

I am certain there is at least one scum, maybe more on my wagon. I could easily faust trying to emulate his town meta of fighting with me here. And WW's case on me is just garbage. Silver is obviously trying to distract from himself. The fact that he doesn't post any reason for voting me doesn't even bother me, since it's just the same as everyone else.

PPE: I don't think I've ever had this amount of bad votes on me this early. It's insane. I'm not going to argue my meta with you, but I hope you can see that at least some of the votes on me are blatantly opportunistic.

And look, I know it makes it hard because scum jumping on my wagon has excuses because of my defensiveness. But still, I thought you would have known me better by now.

PPE: yeah. I'm ready to lynch silver now--and surprised no one's made a partner case yet.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:19:02 pm
Well, I could easily see Faust as your partner.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:20:21 pm
Silver's vote could be opportunistic, Eevee's was certainly not.  Mine obviously not.  Faust maybe.

Anyway, stop saying the votes on you are garbage.  They aren't. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:23:15 pm
my play is obviously opportunistic town lynching. it's clear that scum!me would use this completely non-suspicious way to get a lynch done. this brilliant plan has almost one percent chance of success.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:24:18 pm
Silver's vote could be opportunistic, Eevee's was certainly not.  Mine obviously not.  Faust maybe.

Anyway, stop saying the votes on you are garbage.  They aren't.
I meant to edit that last part out (only in reference to your case, some other votes are obviously bad).

And as to faust. I'm not sure. I felt very, very confident he was scum in Dice Mafia. And I still maintain that he acted scummy in that game. We fought an incredible amount there though and were both town. Not sure that's the case here though, as I feel he's perfectly capable of emulating his town self attacking me--and it would be an easy path to take.

PPE: great. Silver has spilled everything, let's lynch him now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:27:52 pm
Ichi is in a bad spot here. Things are just not going his way. And it started so nice, someone else did something crazy, and noone had a reason to talk about him. And now suddenly he is the center of attention.

Ichi, you're trying to hard to not take the case against you seriously, while at the same time taking it in fact very seriously, and trying hard to defend yourself. Pressing the case against me could have worked, but not anymore. You played yourself into a corner.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:35:36 pm
Ichi is in a bad spot here. Things are just not going his way. And it started so nice, someone else did something crazy, and noone had a reason to talk about him. And now suddenly he is the center of attention.

Ichi, you're trying to hard to not take the case against you seriously, while at the same time taking it in fact very seriously, and trying hard to defend yourself. Pressing the case against me could have worked, but not anymore. You played yourself into a corner.
I've been in this spot before (many times actually). I hope my sarcasm came through, but maybe not cause internet and all.

Once again, my defensiveness against original terrible cases on me snowballs and people vote me for defending myself. I have never been mislynched before though--and feel confident that is a record I can keep.

Anyone who has played with me before (barring ongoing games) should know that this is just how I am and it should be a null tell.

I could just sit by while terrible cases are made against me and receive approval, but I can't. I'm sure you're very happy that I've managed to distract from the bomb you dropped first thing, but no one's forgotten it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 12:40:16 pm
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.

vote: ichimaru
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:41:11 pm
Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:41:40 pm
What's the votes at?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:42:42 pm
joth just derphammered me.

Remember who was on my wagon!!!

I can't believe this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:43:57 pm
Also i will say that I'm not going to vote ichi. This defense seems almost the same in dice mafia when he was suspected day 1 as town there too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:44:07 pm
Wait what?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:44:25 pm
This is what happens when everyone votes without thinking.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:44:39 pm
Also i will say that I'm not going to vote ichi. This defense seems almost the same in dice mafia when he was suspected day 1 as town there too.

Feels constructed to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:44:59 pm
Also i will say that I'm not going to vote ichi. This defense seems almost the same in dice mafia when he was suspected day 1 as town there too.

Feels constructed to me.
I'm dead!!!

It doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:45:36 pm
So you can tell us what you'll flip then?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:46:27 pm
Joth did you mean to hammer him?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:46:44 pm
So you can tell us what you'll flip then?
Is this a joke?

I can't believe you're taking me this lightly. Screw all of you people for killing me for no reason.

This has got to be some sort of record.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:47:34 pm
Wasn't a joke.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:51:42 pm
You're also at like L-2, so you can go ahead and calm down.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:52:09 pm
And, played around with that being a ruse, but I'm not so sure about it. 

Unvote
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:52:32 pm
Wasn't a joke.
I am not telling you anything.

Please kill WW after my flip everyone.

PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:53:42 pm
Or maybe L-1.  Unless you're Hated?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:53:48 pm
I think you had 5 votes. you need 6 to be lynched.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:54:20 pm
Are you sure I just recounted on my phone and thought I counted 6 votes
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:54:32 pm
Wasn't a joke.
I am not telling you anything.

Please kill WW after my flip everyone.

PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?

Was trying to test if you really thought you were hammered and, if you were, if you were trying to throw a bunch of confusion around.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:54:55 pm
Faust voted Hydrad.  Also, Eevee's was out-of-syntax.  Not sure if it even counts.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:55:31 pm
faust, WW, Eevee, Joth, and me were voting for you. that's 5.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:55:39 pm
Faust voted Hydrad.  Also, Eevee's was out-of-syntax.  Not sure if it even counts.

Eevee was in the vote count. Ad Faust voted ichi after votin me I think
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 12:56:37 pm
I had no idea that was L1. No one announced it! wait was that the hammer?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:56:45 pm
Hm, you could be right.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 12:57:03 pm
Adk is voting ichi also i think
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 12:58:16 pm
ADK is not voting for ichi.

Ichi was not hammered.

I didn't put him on L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 12:58:45 pm
No, I switched to silverspawn

ppe: yeah that. But ichi is at L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 12:59:13 pm
I had no idea that was L1. No one announced it! wait was that the hammer?
I'm not sure now. I counted 6 votes and was almost positive no one unvoted me or changed.

It's understandable given that no one announced anything and just kept foolishly voting me in single posts. Less scum on you and more on silver, WW, and faust.

PPE: Yeah. Looks like I was right and I am hammered.

L-1 now that WW unvoted?
That means I was hammered.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 12:59:27 pm
So Joth was L-1?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 12:59:47 pm
unvote but I reserve the right to re-vote. I'm at a work thing and sort of just skimming the thread, so maybe voting there wasn't the hottest idea ever.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:00:42 pm
I had no idea that was L1. No one announced it! wait was that the hammer?
I'm not sure now. I counted 6 votes and was almost positive no one unvoted me or changed.

It's understandable given that no one announced anything and just kept foolishly voting me in single posts. Less scum on you and more on silver, WW, and faust.

PPE: Yeah. Looks like I was right and I am hammered.

L-1 now that WW unvoted?
That means I was hammered.
faust, WW, Eevee, Joth, and me. that's five. who else did you vote?

ADK didn't vote. he quoted a vote from someone else.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:01:32 pm
Pretty sure Joth put you to L-1, and you thought it was the hammer.  I unvoted putting you at L-2, Joth unvoted so you have three votes: Eevee, Faust, and Silverspawn.

PPE: ADK voted for Ichi early on (I missed it), but then changed to Silver.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:02:00 pm
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.

PPE: so ADK changed to silver?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:02:14 pm
In this post:

Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7

I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 01:02:21 pm
You weren't hammered. Joth put you at L-1 but didn't realize it and didn't announce. You still have silverspawn, eevee, and faust voting for you.

ppe: all that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:02:29 pm
Then shortly after:

Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Vote: silverspawn

ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:03:01 pm
I missed one vote, ADK did vote for joth, but he changed it to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 01:03:57 pm
Well that was a small roller coaster of emotions. I think we should be more careful about our votes though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 01:04:43 pm
I'm a little tempted to switch back to Ichi, the whole "I've never been mislynched!" thing is something he pulled as scum in stack the deck. I want to wait for people who missed this hot mess to chime in, though.

PPE: silver I assume you mean Ichi, not joth. Is joth your scumpartner?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:05:09 pm
Ok. So I'm still alive.

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

WW, did you know how many votes were really on me when you asked me to claim?

PPE: a bunch
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:05:42 pm
I'm a little tempted to switch back to Ichi, the whole "I've never been mislynched!" thing is something he pulled as scum in stack the deck. I want to wait for people who missed this hot mess to chime in, though.

PPE: silver I assume you mean Ichi, not joth. Is joth your scumpartner?

*Ichi

Vanilla Townies do not have scum partners.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:06:15 pm
I'm a little tempted to switch back to Ichi, the whole "I've never been mislynched!" thing is something he pulled as scum in stack the deck. I want to wait for people who missed this hot mess to chime in, though.

PPE: silver I assume you mean Ichi, not joth. Is joth your scumpartner?

*Ichi

Vanilla Townies do not have scum partners.
Neither do SK's
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:07:30 pm
Quote
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.
Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:08:33 pm
Ok. So I'm still alive.

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

WW, did you know how many votes were really on me when you asked me to claim?

PPE: a bunch

Yes, but for the wrong reasons.  I thought ADK never voted for you and that Faust didn't revote for you.  Turns out that ADK did vote, but changed, and Faust went back to you, so I was off by one.

I really wanted you to say the words "I am flipping town" or something to that effect, though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:09:34 pm
I believe that Ichi thought he was dead. His reaction makes him scummier than he was before.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 01:10:22 pm
Yeah, nothing about Ichi's reaction to believing he was lynched screamed town to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:10:49 pm
Wasn't a joke.
I am not telling you anything.

Please kill WW after my flip everyone.

PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?

The "I'm not telling you anything" is confusing to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:11:32 pm
Quote
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.
Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:11:51 pm
Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.

This confuses me, too.. right after he thought Joth hammered him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:12:43 pm
Quote
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.
Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.

What's amazing about that at all?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:13:17 pm
Quote
I don't care if you guys kill me now.
I don't believe you. I don't think anyone does.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:13:58 pm
Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.

This confuses me, too.. right after he thought Joth hammered him.
What's confusing about it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:14:06 pm
Quote
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.
Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.

What's amazing about that at all?
You taking advantage of my thinking I was hammered to try and PR hunt.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 01:14:28 pm
"Please kill WW after I am dead", without any sort of "well you guys lynched town, good job", especially when WW wasn't the one who hammered you, looks a lot like scum trying to sow confusion.

Vote: Ichimaru

This is L-2.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 01:14:53 pm
It doesn't sound all that much like someone getting mislynched.  Or even someone that thought he was hammered.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:19:20 pm
"Please kill WW after I am dead", without any sort of "well you guys lynched town, good job", especially when WW wasn't the one who hammered you, looks a lot like scum trying to sow confusion.

Vote: Ichimaru

This is L-2.
At this point, I don't think you care what I would have said--you would have found a way to make it scummy.

The one time I did flip scum, I tried to convince town that they'd lost the game. If you really think I'm scum, I'm incredulous that you think I wouldn't mess with town by claiming I was town as I went down. So that makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 01:25:43 pm
Ok. I'll be gone for a while.

I doubt there's anything I could say now that people couldn't put a spin on. Please look back at my previous games if you care.
Looking at things objectively, my situation might improve if I'm gone and don't have a chance to defend myself.

I will not be claiming anything today, but I'm sure you would have lynched me in my absence anyway.

If I do survive (or I'm killed), I think I'll have learned something about my defensiveness.

That is all.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 01:28:44 pm
We are not lynching you while you are gone.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 24, 2014, 01:55:38 pm
Wow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 02:02:16 pm
I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 02:50:46 pm
But a town PR absolutely claims somewhere in that mess. And I think it's past the point where a claim would be all that plausible.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 03:01:11 pm
Wow..

Well, this game got a fast start, that's for sure.

I guess Ichi's flip will be quite information for us now, if not anything else. I do share joth's concerns about the lack of claim though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 03:03:45 pm
I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.
Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
[/end sarcasm]

Some thoughts.

1. I understand that many people view my defensiveness as scummy behavior. From my point of view, when I'm town, and I see what I perceive as poor votes on me, I am very reactive to them. I feel that scum is trying to cast suspicion on me and without my intervention will be picked up by others even when it has no basis at all--and this has happened in the past. Unfortunately, in my attempts to counter the numerous unexplained, unwarranted votes on me, it convinces other people that I am scum. Even more so, my reactive posts actually distract from the points that I am trying to make and the players I believe to be scum, furthering my annoyance.

2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.

3. In regards to me claiming, I was suspicious when WW pressed me to claim--and since there was no vote count to refer to, I was aware that my conclusion that I had been lynched might be incorrect. As such, I refused to claim. Arguments surrounding what town/scum would have done are mostly worthless in my opinion. At that time, I was incredulous that town had botched things so badly and (I thought) hammered me so early on in D1. Starting D2 with 2 townies dead and virtually no information regarding the lynch is pretty bad. So I hope that people understand why I have been harping so much about people voting me without any reasoning. If you are determined to mislynch me, I at least want town to get information out of it.

4. At this point, I am incredibly suspicious of ADK and silver in particular. I know that I have largely distracted from silver's claim, but it is something that I would like to discuss more. In regards to ADK, his "cases" against me are nothing more than ill-disguised wagon jumping. In particular, his assertion that my claiming town would have changed his read on me is ludicrously illogical. Scum!anyone never claims scum, even at the end, so saying that would have made me townier is simply insane.

PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 03:13:10 pm
The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 03:19:01 pm
The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?
How is people making single posts voting for me with no explanation townie?

Really? You don't know I'm town, but I do. From that perspective I am almost 100% certain there is scum on my wagon. You are conveniently avoiding the suspicion regarding just how quickly my wagon grew, with a large percentage of votes being unexplained or blatant sheeping of others.

Since it seems like you've already made up your mind about me, maybe I'm wasting my breath here. But please just think about what I'm saying instead of more "you're scum!"
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:19:37 pm
I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.
Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
[/end sarcasm]

Some thoughts.

1. I understand that many people view my defensiveness as scummy behavior. From my point of view, when I'm town, and I see what I perceive as poor votes on me, I am very reactive to them. I feel that scum is trying to cast suspicion on me and without my intervention will be picked up by others even when it has no basis at all--and this has happened in the past. Unfortunately, in my attempts to counter the numerous unexplained, unwarranted votes on me, it convinces other people that I am scum. Even more so, my reactive posts actually distract from the points that I am trying to make and the players I believe to be scum, furthering my annoyance.

This is obviously poor reasoning, as on average more town are going to vote against you than scum.  Moreover, there were not numerous unexplained and unwarranted votes.  When you started freaking out, you had two votes on you: Eevee and Faust.  Both were explained and reasonable.  ADK's wasn't unwarranted either, but regardless he changed his vote right away.

Also realize, even if you are scum and you feel the case against you is bad, and that people are voting for you for bad or unexplained reasons, then you're going to get upset and react strongly as well.  So it's not like there's only a town motivation for your reactions.

Quote
2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.


3. In regards to me claiming, I was suspicious when WW pressed me to claim--and since there was no vote count to refer to, I was aware that my conclusion that I had been lynched might be incorrect. As such, I refused to claim. Arguments surrounding what town/scum would have done are mostly worthless in my opinion. At that time, I was incredulous that town had botched things so badly and (I thought) hammered me so early on in D1. Starting D2 with 2 townies dead and virtually no information regarding the lynch is pretty bad. So I hope that people understand why I have been harping so much about people voting me without any reasoning. If you are determined to mislynch me, I at least want town to get information out of it.

You were entirely convinced you were mislynched, or you were faking.  It can't be both.  I'm suspicious that you were suspicious.

Quote
4. At this point, I am incredibly suspicious of ADK and silver in particular. I know that I have largely distracted from silver's claim, but it is something that I would like to discuss more. In regards to ADK, his "cases" against me are nothing more than ill-disguised wagon jumping. In particular, his assertion that my claiming town would have changed his read on me is ludicrously illogical. Scum!anyone never claims scum, even at the end, so saying that would have made me townier is simply insane.

The ADK thing is possible.  To the last point, town getting mislynched here with a PR would say something like "well grats you just lynched your cop".  (See Sudgy in whatever game that was.)

PPEs
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:20:48 pm
The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?

What does this make you think about my alignment?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 03:22:13 pm
I have to go to class, and I want to give WW's response the time it deserves. I will be back in a few hours.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 03:24:02 pm
But please see silver's and joth's votes for examples of what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:32:44 pm
And the main thing, in a broader context than this game: a case being ultimately correct or incorrect is not the same as it being good or bad.  "Correct" or "Incorrect" is whether they flip scum or town, but good or bad is the actual reasoning behind thinking what you're thinking, with the information you have available to you at the time.

I can, say, be a vig, randomly target someone, and hit scum and feel great about it, but my "argument" (in this case, choosing randomly) was obviously terrible.  Less extremely, I can make a bad argument against scum and just be lucky.  I can also make a good argument against town as town, or a good argument against town as scum. 

Or as a general example, most, if not all, Day 1 cases are bad.  But we still hit scum Day 1.

Voting for people is how the game is played, and in a lot of cases as town you're going to vote against other town players.  This is actually a good thing, because it can lead to more information to let you (and the other players) know if they really are scum or are actually town. 

And being "caught for the wrong reasons" is definitely a thing.  I feel it as scum when I get suspected for things that I didn't think warranted suspicion. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:34:23 pm
But please see silver's and joth's votes for examples of what I'm talking about.

Those votes weren't there at the time you were acting indignant.  Also, Joth was quite clearly sheeping me, as he quoted my vote against you, which contained my reasons.  So, it was sheeped, but not unexplained.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 03:39:34 pm
@WW: I mean, if Ichi flips scum, then that probably indicates that you're town (or at least not on Ichi's team). I think that if Ichi is scum, then his "please kill WW" comment was a last-ditch attempt to introduce some WIFOM regarding your alignment.

@Ichi: I don't really feel anyone voted for you for "no reason", and I'm not very strongly towny toward everyone who voted for you. But you seemed to be implying that people voting for you was implicitly scummy, and that's just not true.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 03:40:30 pm
unvote

I think it's important to consider the context of IG's posts. We were putting him under a lot of pressure, and he reacted in a certain way. A lot of people believe it's scummy. Still under pressure, he has made responses, and some people found those scummy.

After it was clear that he wasn't going to die right away, he's had time to breath. Relax, and think about what he wants to do next. His current defense should not be given the same weight as his prior posts, because it was something he had time to write and think about. Both scum!IG and town!IG could write such a post. Really, if you want to judge him, focus on his earlier posts. What he is writing now is nullish.

We have a lot of time left. Everyone should, at some point, reread the pressure phase and make a judgement. But for now, I don't see us getting anything useful out of him.

PPE 3
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:43:06 pm
I was really hoping to get something more definitive from the time where he actually thought he was hammered.  I probably broke the truth too soon.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2014, 03:45:00 pm
unvote

I think it's important to consider the context of IG's posts. We were putting him under a lot of pressure, and he reacted in a certain way. A lot of people believe it's scummy. Still under pressure, he has made responses, and some people found those scummy.

After it was clear that he wasn't going to die right away, he's had time to breath. Relax, and think about what he wants to do next. His current defense should not be given the same weight as his prior posts, because it was something he had time to write and think about. Both scum!IG and town!IG could write such a post. Really, if you want to judge him, focus on his earlier posts. What he is writing now is nullish.

We have a lot of time left. Everyone should, at some point, reread the pressure phase and make a judgement. But for now, I don't see us getting anything useful out of him.

PPE 3

So why are you unvoting?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 03:48:13 pm
I did not know that I put him on L-2. I spend about 3 seconds thinking, "should I count his posts?" and decided "no, I'm pretty sure it's not that close. If one more person had voted before me, I'm pretty sure I'd have checked it. Even though joth had one more post before him, I think it's believable that he didn't realize he was putting him at L-1.

What I'm getting at is, when he said he was lynched, I didn't know it wasn't true. I went back and counted, and I told him that he was still alive without thinking. The smarter thing would have been to pretend as though he was just hammered. So, we both made this mistake.

PPE 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 03:49:14 pm
PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.
No, but when you flip, it will be informational. :) Sheeping doesn't take away the information value, not at all. People took strong stances on you early, that's information.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 03:51:37 pm
Quote
So why are you unvoting?

If you reread my posts, you'll see that I never actually said I thought he was scummy, although I of course made it sound like it. I voted for him with no explanation at all, and the only goal was to produce reactions under heavy pressure. We got a lot of that, way more than I expected. But now he's going to be afk for several hours, and he's going to come back to the game with a completely different mindset.

tl;dr the reason for my vote no longer applies, so I'll remove it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 24, 2014, 03:53:14 pm
Quote
So why are you unvoting?

If you reread my posts, you'll see that I never actually said I thought he was scummy, although I of course made it sound like it. I voted for him with no explanation at all, and the only goal was to produce reactions under heavy pressure. We got a lot of that, way more than I expected. But now he's going to be afk for several hours, and he's going to come back to the game with a completely different mindset.

tl;dr the reason for my vote no longer applies, so I'll remove it.

But does a different reason justify a vote?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 03:55:04 pm
By the way, I think this was a good way for this game to start. I think we'll be able to make meaningful reads day 1, and get stuff out of rereads later because people are at least taking stances here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 03:57:00 pm
Quote
But does a different reason justify a vote?
One of my first posts in this game stated that I plan to play very differently. A part of that is that I'm not going to share all of my thoughts as openly as I have in previous games.

So, I can't answer that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2014, 05:40:35 pm
2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.

to quote ... pops maybe? Ozle? I actually think the derphammer is a fine and useful tool for town. I think that if town is super cautious to not end the day until everyone's weighed in, everyone's had their say, as is our wont, that's really good for scum. If gives them every chance to weasel out of it. Look at my lynch in James Bond! if my freaking partners had been online, I could have weaseled out of the lynch because everyone was being so cautious.

Now later in the game, when our lynches are do or die, we absolutely slow down and think about everything. But day 1? If my vote had actually been the hammer, I think there's a very good chance that it would have hit scum. And even if it hadn't, I would have felt fine about it. I would obviously have been disappointed to mislynch town and more than a little worried about everyone thinking I was quickhammering scum, but I would not have considered myself to have misplayed.

All this is to say, nothing Ichimaru has done has given me any more reason to suspect he's town and I'm very happy to reinstitute my vote once everyone feels like they've had their say.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 05:49:03 pm
It was O. I miss O!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 05:50:50 pm
Joth, I agree to an extent, but what if Ichi had been a powerful role? There are valid reasons for not hammering people without giving them a change to comment.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 05:56:03 pm
Ichi, it's a bit problematic your reads seem all over the place. It kills some of your credibility you call everyone who suspects you obvious scum that. Just try to see it this way: More people voted for you than there are scum. Some of them are town. Try to address your points to them.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 06:08:02 pm
Joth, I agree to an extent, but what if Ichi had been a powerful role? There are valid reasons for not hammering people without giving them a change to comment.

I disagree completely with joth.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 06:15:08 pm
I agree with "sometimes you just got to go for it". I disagree with this being one of those times, or it ever being ok not to make sure you aren't accidentally hammering before voting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 06:22:09 pm
That was a lot overnight.

I'd say that I actually got a bit of a towny read on Ichi's reaction, but then that's tempered by the points being made.  I'd be angry if I thought I was lynched in that manner, too.

He's definitely in the lynch pool, but we do have time to continue discussing stuff.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 06:22:39 pm
I will say, there were a few instances of SK hunting, which is uber scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 06:24:10 pm
One thing to think about/discuss: the traitor mechanic.

So, with a split faction guaranteed, even if one side has knowledge, the other doesn't.  Generally speaking (as I've played/modded multiple), I think the single scum that doesn't know his partners is the more dangerous of the group -- he's usually going to be a bit on the scummier side (to try to not get NKed) and may actually reverse scumhunt.

I actually think Traitor hunting is a thing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 24, 2014, 06:26:28 pm
For the traitor I thought scum would try to hit them so that they are on a team? Or is that not powerful enough to lose a night kill I guess.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 06:42:27 pm
For the traitor I thought scum would try to hit them so that they are on a team? Or is that not powerful enough to lose a night kill I guess.

I'd say getting kills through is more important.

I think the best example ever of a traitor was yuma in RMM5.  I was scum there (my first scum win and MVP, I think), and so was he.  But we didn't know he existed, at all.  He claimed scum at some point, really caused a lot of havok.  It was awesome.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 07:55:17 pm
I will say, there were a few instances of SK hunting, which is uber scummy.
Note that ADK was the one SK hunting and I even noted that. Right here.

I find this a little odd, since it's like SK hunting--but I think ADK's theory makes the most sense so far.

Joth, I agree to an extent, but what if Ichi had been a powerful role? There are valid reasons for not hammering people without giving them a change to comment.

I disagree completely with joth.
I too completely disagree with joth saying that derphammers or hammering someone when 2 players haven't even posted is a good idea. And I find his play so far to be quite scummy. Like why even try to argue that, all it does is give scum a free pass.

Ichi, it's a bit problematic your reads seem all over the place. It kills some of your credibility you call everyone who suspects you obvious scum that. Just try to see it this way: More people voted for you than there are scum. Some of them are town. Try to address your points to them.

No you're right. And this was something that I was considering during my absence. I still maintain that some people on my wagon joined in incredibly scummy ways, but of course some people on my wagon are town. So in terms of my defensive meta or whatever, it's obviously not good that town is voting me--because if they have legitimate reason to, then that means scum has an easier time of mislynching me and getting away with it because "he was so scummy".

If I were to focus on who I find scummiest right now. I would list ADK, joth, and faust as my top scum reads. More later.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 07:59:25 pm
Good post!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 08:05:19 pm
Meaningless post.

I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 08:07:54 pm
Meaningless post.

I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2014, 08:08:45 pm
And of course it was a good post, he gave us his reads with reasons, and touched on his defensiveness in a rational manner.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 08:12:36 pm
And of course it was a good post, he gave us his reads with reasons, and touched on his defensiveness in a rational manner.

It was not a bad post. But I think IG is a good enough player to make a post like this as scum. There is nothing wrong with it, but I don't give him town points for it either.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 08:14:55 pm
And of course it was a good post, he gave us his reads with reasons, and touched on his defensiveness in a rational manner.

It was not a bad post. But I think IG is a good enough player to make a post like this as scum. There is nothing wrong with it, but I don't give him town points for it either.

That was fine to say.  "Meaningless post" was not a fair statement.

I think, scum or town, his post was what people were looking for him to contribute.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 08:15:27 pm
Meaningless post.

I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.

I don't see any problem discussing it today.

Generally, because SK hunting is considered such a classic scum-tell, I think scum will be so careful about it that it's not really a scum tell at all anymore, unless the scum is a noobie.

IG suspected me of being an SK. Is that okay?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2014, 08:17:06 pm
Quote
I think, scum or town, his post was what people were looking for him to contribute.

The post is fine. I meant meaningless mostly in the context of his image. If you're bothered by that, I take it back.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 24, 2014, 08:19:14 pm
Meaningless post.

I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.

I don't see any problem discussing it today.

Generally, because SK hunting is considered such a classic scum-tell, I think scum will be so careful about it that it's not really a scum tell at all anymore, unless the scum is a noobie.

IG suspected me of being an SK. Is that okay?

Just as scummy as anyone else doing it.

The reason we don't SK hunt in general is it's a big waste of time if there's no SK, and it's mathematically less likely to succeed, given we are guaranteed there are three scum to catch otherwise.  Plus, partners have interactions, no matter what, so that's something to look for.

SK hunting isn't actually hunting, anyway.  It's distracting from actual scum hunting.  That's why it is manifestly scummy, no matter what.

Anyone who's like "hey, let's try to find the SK today!" is anti-town at best, scummy at worst, because they are trying to change the focus of the game away from what we should be doing.

When we know we have an SK to deal with (odds are we don't, right?), we deal with it.  Until then, treat the game like normal.

That's my piece of SK Hunting as a scumtell.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: yuma on September 24, 2014, 10:16:20 pm
Vote Count 1.2

Eevee (1): Hydrad
Jimmmm (1): Ichimaru
Ichimaru (3): Eevee, faust, ADK
silverspawn (1): Jimmmmm

Not Voting (5): ashersky, xerxes, witherweaver, joth, silver

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: yuma on September 24, 2014, 10:16:56 pm
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.

vote: ichimaru

For clarity here was the vote count at the time of this vote:

Vote Count 1.1.5

Eevee (1): Hydrad
Jimmmm (1): Ichimaru
Ichimaru (5): Eevee, faust, witherweaver, silverspawn, joth (L-1)
silverspawn (2): Jimmmmm, ADK

Not Voting (2): ashersky, xerxes

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 24, 2014, 10:25:25 pm
Forgot I was still voting Jimmmmm
unvote
Since I see he's back to his old self.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2014, 12:02:39 am
yuma, I unvoted.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2014, 12:03:00 am
oh never mind I can't read.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2014, 12:17:01 am
You can disagree with me, but I just got done being scum in a game, and I think scum benefits a lot more from knowing they won't be lynched without a ton of warning and a lot of hemming and hawing. All that said, I'm not going to derphammer anybody on purpose. I'm town, I'll play nice.

Town has this tendency day 1 to run up a wagon, run it down, analyze it and then lynch someone else. And that's kind of fine, I guess, but it means that if scum manages to be the first big wagon of the day, they almost get a town pass. I'd rather not see that happen to Ichimaru, because I still think he's scum.

Ichi, it's not like the case on you is rock solid. But it's a totally fine day 1 case. You're behaving exactly how I expect caught scum to behave. And yeah, maybe that's confirmation bias or whatever, but I'm my gut is still saying you're scum. And unless we manage to put together a better case than that, that's where I'd like to be.

I also hate day 1 and am a big fan of getting it over with as quickly as possible. So, I'm not for sure locked in but vote: Ichimaru until someone convinces me otherwise.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 25, 2014, 02:16:58 am
Hmm well I thought Ichi was towny before all of this voting happened and while his reaction doesn't really add up to me I can sort of understand it as annoyed town that thinks he just got killed for no reason.

I'm going to Vote: joth for now. If ichi is town I think there is a high chance scum is on the wagon. SS and joth both strike me as the scummiest. SS's I don't like but I still don't see a new scum player trying this whole new meta thing so I don't think it was him. Joth's was for putting him at L-1 without really thinking about it. I'm not even sure if he didn't mean to do it as even I know that joth hates day 1 stuff. So it strikes me as a possible scum move to get a quick lynch with the excuse that he didn't realize it was that close.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2014, 08:14:19 am
Hating day 1 is a town tell for me. In James Bond I played day 1 totally differently from normal, got really into it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 25, 2014, 08:49:19 am
Hating day 1 is a town tell for me. In James Bond I played day 1 totally differently from normal, got really into it.

You lost Jamed Bond, right?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2014, 10:01:14 am
Hating day 1 is a town tell for me. In James Bond I played day 1 totally differently from normal, got really into it.

You lost Jamed Bond, right?

oh yes horribly
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 10:12:57 am
I believe that Jothe is town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 10:15:40 am
I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 10:41:08 am
I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.

One day we'll have to disagree on something.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 11:55:05 am
I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.

One day we'll have to disagree on something.
That day is not today, my friend.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 25, 2014, 12:23:28 pm
So, I'm rereading, trying to make sense of all the crazy stuff that happened. A timeline:

#61: silverspawn claims VT
#74: Ichi wants to know why silverspawn doesn't want to talk about his claim
#78: Eevee votes Ichi in response
#86: Eevee asks why scum!silverspawn would want to draw attention like that
#87: ashersky says he might have a plan
#90: Jimmmmm votes silverspawn
#100: ashersky "doesn't like the claim"
#119: joth doesn't think silverspawn is scum
#132: WW presses silverspawn to talk about his claim
#145: ADK votes Ichi for hedging on silverspawn
#147: ADK proposes the SK!silverspawn theory, votes him
#149: WW says it "makes some sense"
#152: Ichi agrees with ADK
#158: WW explains my vote on silverspawn
#166: WW votes Ichi
#169: silverspawn presents a very odd view on ethics
#170: silverspawn votes Ichi
#175: WW says I could be Ichi's partner
#181: joth votes Ichi, L-1
#190: WW asks Ichi what he'll flip
#195: WW unvotes
#211: joth unvotes
#225: WW admits to having known Ichi was not hammered when pressing him to claim
#235: ADK votes Ichi

Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.

Vote: Witherweaver
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 12:39:09 pm
It was public knowledge that Ichi wasn't hammered.. why would I try to get his role?  I knew from the beginning that he was still alive.

I think it's pretty clear I wanted to get him to talk while he was under the impression that he was hammered so that he might slip something to reveal his alignment.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 12:39:42 pm
Well let me rephrase.. if I was scum trying to get town!Ichi's role, that would be very poorly done by me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 25, 2014, 12:43:56 pm
It was public knowledge that Ichi wasn't hammered.. why would I try to get his role?  I knew from the beginning that he was still alive.

I think it's pretty clear I wanted to get him to talk while he was under the impression that he was hammered so that he might slip something to reveal his alignment.

You wanter to know whether he was a PR or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 25, 2014, 12:44:18 pm
Well let me rephrase.. if I was scum trying to get town!Ichi's role, that would be very poorly done by me.

Well, yes.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 04:23:55 pm
Vote: Wither

Faust makes a lot of good points. WW joined the Ichi wagon on a critical point (which is scummy if Ichi is town), and the comment about faust felt like it could be setting things up for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 04:24:51 pm
Again, not my scum play.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 04:28:05 pm
Again, not my scum play.
Fortunately your town play has always been extremely pro-town. Makes it easier to hold you accountable the times you do something (debatably) anti-town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 04:28:36 pm
Again, not my scum play.
Fortunately your town play has always been extremely pro-town. Makes it easier to hold you accountable the times you do something (debatably) anti-town.

My scum play is pretty pro-town as well.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 04:37:43 pm
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5

What? Why?

I don't want to distract too much from examining WW, because I think that's worth doing here, but faust, you never answered this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 25, 2014, 04:38:10 pm
But I'm assuming if you do something (debatably) anti-town thats something scum WW would have a higher chance then town WW?

PPE:1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 25, 2014, 04:40:24 pm
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 04:41:38 pm
But I'm assuming if you do something (debatably) anti-town thats something scum WW would have a higher chance then town WW?

PPE:1

Nope.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 25, 2014, 04:42:37 pm
But I'm assuming if you do something (debatably) anti-town thats something scum WW would have a higher chance then town WW?

PPE:1

Nope.

ah well that clears everything up :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 04:43:29 pm
Actually looking back, WW joining the Ichi wagon like he did might make him townier in my eyes. Scum is going be trying to figure out who their partner/s are/is, so they're probably going to be staying away from quickly growing day one wagons.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 06:51:08 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

Glad to see some people getting my points on WW PR hunting. One thing that does give me pause is him basically admitting to it though. At the time I noted how amazed I was that he confessed to knowing I hadn't been hammered and pushing me to claim. So either he legitimately didn't see that as a scummy behavior, or there's some weird gambit going on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 25, 2014, 06:54:06 pm
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?

Not exactly.  Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on.  My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.

My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for.  I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway.  And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.

So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using.  I'm wondering if there are competing views.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: yuma on September 25, 2014, 06:55:14 pm
Vote Count 1.3

Ichimaru (2): ADK, joth
silverspawn (1): Jimmmmm
joth (1): Hydrad
Witherweaver (2): faust, Eevee
 
Not Voting (5): ashersky, xerxes, witherweaver, silver, ichimaru

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 06:58:22 pm
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?

Not exactly.  Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on.  My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.

My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for.  I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway.  And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.

So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using.  I'm wondering if there are competing views.
This make sense to me. So, I'm not a competing view.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 25, 2014, 06:58:49 pm
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?

Not exactly.  Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on.  My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.

My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for.  I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway.  And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.

So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using.  I'm wondering if there are competing views.

No I think I'm pretty much in agreement. Knowing what scum has doesn't help us much and all finding the setup does is let scum know who has the PR roles.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:06:50 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

Glad to see some people getting my points on WW PR hunting. One thing that does give me pause is him basically admitting to it though. At the time I noted how amazed I was that he confessed to knowing I hadn't been hammered and pushing me to claim. So either he legitimately didn't see that as a scummy behavior, or there's some weird gambit going on.

Or I was doing exactly what I said I was doing.  I realize there was  a chance you'd slip your PR, but I think if you did, I would have accepted you as town.  Other responses could have been informative without you telling what role you had.  You might have just said you were town, or done a "okay you got me I'm scum" thing.  I thought it worth the chance.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 07:07:16 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

What are your thoughts on it?

Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:07:48 pm
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?

Not exactly.  Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on.  My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.

My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for.  I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway.  And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.

So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using.  I'm wondering if there are competing views.

I think not until we get some more information from flips/claims.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 25, 2014, 07:09:55 pm
That's enough for me.  I figured I was right.

As there was quite an open period of discussion on the setup with yuma, I did take a look at it fairly often and offered suggestions to make it less breakable.

I really think we should actually ignore it completely for the rest of the day (until someone decides to/has to claim).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 07:19:39 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

What are your thoughts on it?

Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
How do you mean?
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 25, 2014, 07:26:11 pm
There is not really any way to find out which row/column we are playing without some claims.

A VT doesn't help.

Of course, the PR's that we have can narrow down the possible options.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 25, 2014, 07:26:26 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

What are your thoughts on it?

Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
How do you mean?
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?

I think he thinks my plan is "claiming."  Interesting thought process.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 07:26:44 pm
There is not really any way to find out which row/column we are playing without some claims.

A VT doesn't help.

Of course, the PR's that we have can narrow down the possible options.
Are you proposing a massclaim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:27:00 pm
Also, if you did slip your PR, I think it would actually be better than had you been asked to claim at L-1.  As long as we believed that you believed you were lynched, we'd accept your claim as true.  Your claim at L-1 is pretty much up in the air, but scum knows if it's true. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 25, 2014, 07:28:21 pm
Also, if you did slip your PR, I think it would actually be better than had you been asked to claim at L-1.  As long as we believed that you believed you were lynched, we'd accept your claim as true.  Your claim at L-1 is pretty much up in the air, but scum knows if it's true.

This actually happened in a game.  I can't remember if that game is over yet or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:34:43 pm
Also, if you did slip your PR, I think it would actually be better than had you been asked to claim at L-1.  As long as we believed that you believed you were lynched, we'd accept your claim as true.  Your claim at L-1 is pretty much up in the air, but scum knows if it's true.

This actually happened in a game.  I can't remember if that game is over yet or not.

Yeah, it was Sudgy in the game where me, Robz, and Azadin were scum.  He was basically an IC. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:35:20 pm
Homeland maybe.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 25, 2014, 07:36:43 pm
Quote
Are you proposing a massclaim?
No
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:45:40 pm
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 07:49:08 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

What are your thoughts on it?

Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
How do you mean?
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?

Sorry, those were two different thoughts, the second was regarding ash's original plan. The first was asking you what you thought about silver's claim, since you brought it up but didn't actually say anything about it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 07:51:39 pm
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.

What are your thoughts on it?

Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
How do you mean?
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?

I think he thinks my plan is "claiming."  Interesting thought process.

Well it's hard to imagine a plan involving the setup that doesn't involve people claiming information regarding their roles in some fashion. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 07:53:46 pm
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.
I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.

At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.

PPE: 2
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 25, 2014, 07:55:50 pm
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.
I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.

At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.

PPE: 2

It would depend on what you said and how you worded it.  Sometimes you can tell if someone is sincere or not.  As it stood, there was nothing to indicate in any way that you were town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 08:47:58 pm
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.
I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.

At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.

PPE: 2

What someone says after the game is already over is also different than what someone says when they've been lynched but they still have teammates to think about.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 08:55:04 pm
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.
I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.

At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.

PPE: 2

What someone says after the game is already over is also different than what someone says when they've been lynched but they still have teammates to think about.
My scumpartner Yuma was still alive at that point. (This was Dynasty Warriors II)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 09:04:55 pm
Well then I guess that is a data point to consider.

But to my other question: do you have something to offer on Silverspawn's claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 25, 2014, 09:18:59 pm
Well then I guess that is a data point to consider.

But to my other question: do you have something to offer on Silverspawn's claim?
Unlike others, I do not find your theory regarding him being an SK to be that unfounded.

If he really is a VT, I see absolutely no reason for him to claim in this setup. There are VT's in virtually every Mafia game, and they don't normally claim like that ever. I think he is lying--for some purpose that he doesn't want to reveal. But it's difficult to ascertain what his reasoning is given the information that we have at this point. He doesn't want to tell us why he did it, and I don't see how that as protown behavior.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2014, 09:21:33 pm
I guess the way I saw it when I first read it was that, while it's probably antitown, I couldn't see what his actual plan as scum would be. It just looked like a weird newbie town play. But then I thought of the SK thing and went, well there's at least one scum narrative there.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2014, 09:29:39 pm
Silver, did you at the town think that claiming advances town's wincon? In retrospect, do you think it increased town's chance of winning compared to not claiming?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 25, 2014, 10:07:40 pm
Silver, did you at the town think that claiming advances town's wincon? In retrospect, do you think it increased town's chance of winning compared to not claiming?
yes
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 25, 2014, 10:12:35 pm
I'm not going to explain my reasoning, but I'll say a few things.

I am really just a VT. That's it. I'm not trying to hide any PR or try to imitate crazy town play, when I'm an SK or scum. I'm just a VT.

Already, the claim has caused suspicion of IG, a lot of conversation and a situation where IG thought he was hammered. The only possible disadvantage it could have is, scum doesn't lynch me. Big deal. They were most likely not going to lynch me anyway. And it's still entirely possible that they think I'd try to hide a PR, and kill me regardless, or even because of the claim. It's pretty ridiculous, at this point, to claim that it was anti town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 25, 2014, 10:13:17 pm
lynch *NK
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 26, 2014, 04:52:46 am
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5

What? Why?

I don't want to distract too much from examining WW, because I think that's worth doing here, but faust, you never answered this.

Oh, at that time all Hydrad had done was do some jokes and claim he didn't understand the setup (didn't know what jk means). I always find that scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 26, 2014, 04:54:59 am
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.

What could Ichi have said to convince you of his townieness?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 08:54:55 am
Why is Ichi suddenly down to 2 votes? Do people actually think he's town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 09:24:14 am
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched.  I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched.  So I wanted to get him talking more.

What could Ichi have said to convince you of his townieness?

Claiming a-la Sudgyness would have, most likely.  Something where he actually said what his alignment was or that he was actually mislynched would have helped as well.  We'd have to look at those things and figure out if they're constructed, but sometimes you can tell when they are not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 11:53:36 am
Hmmm is XP the only one that hasn't been here yet? I'd like to get his opinion on what happened here. (is this something I can request a prod on?)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 26, 2014, 01:04:35 pm
I think what ss did was fine once but shouldn't be repeated. I think I can guess his motives. IG hasn't really screamed town or scum - a little scummy but still <50%.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 01:06:29 pm
oh hi XP!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 26, 2014, 01:10:57 pm
Hi. Sorry for lurking - I am reading everything though, that's how I responded immediately. I don't have any reads here, and the setup can't really be looked at until something happens, so I'm not sure what to say. I could help lynch IG, I guess.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 01:12:01 pm
XP, is your new avatar permanent?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 26, 2014, 03:06:24 pm
Here we go. . .
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 04:25:09 pm
Here we go. . .
Where?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 04:30:13 pm
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 04:47:28 pm
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?
Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 04:49:16 pm
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?
Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

He wouldn't have had a chance to fake claim from his perspective.  He thought he was derphammered.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 04:50:15 pm
Hmmh. That does make sense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 04:50:26 pm
And

Vote: Eevee


For the "yeah he's not that scummy and I don't want to lynch him but maybe let's go ahead and lynch him anyway or 'best info'" kind of post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 04:50:39 pm
And pushes me back to being a fan of the wagon. Damn I'm easy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 04:51:26 pm
And

Vote: Eevee


For the "yeah he's not that scummy and I don't want to lynch him but maybe let's go ahead and lynch him anyway or 'best info'" kind of post.
He absolutely is scummy! I'm just not sure the scum narrative is actually there. And I'm not saying lynch him for info. I'm saying he'd easily be the most information flip at this point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 05:08:58 pm
Awww, man Witherweaver beat me to it! But here's some other things.

- The "Oh did I vote? I didn't remember that, guess it was just a pressure vote"

- This.

I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

Anyway, Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 05:11:42 pm
I mean, you are over-eager. Maybe playing up your certainty on purpose, I don't know. I'm not saying it makes you scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:41:48 pm
I don't find Eevee's responses particularly scummy here. Joth, on the other hand, seems to gain scum reads in an oddly opportunistic way.

vote: Joth
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:47:36 pm
Look how and when Eevee has voted for IG:

Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.

This was a far less serious vote than the ones that followed. It is very believable that he doesn't remember it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 05:47:57 pm
Ok, you can call it opportunism, but I was literally going to vote before I saw WW's vote. I found Eevee's post very scummy. I still find IG scummy, but that wagon is stalled, for better or for worse.

Eevee's post was SUPER scummy. It was hedgy. It tried to downplay previous votes/rewrite history. It was inconsistent with reads he'd offered previously (although I concede that maybe that last one was just a product of me misreading "I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager" as "I find the wagon scummy")
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 05:48:31 pm
Votes are serious business. You should remember making them.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:49:19 pm
It was barely after the RVS.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:50:02 pm
Ok, you can call it opportunism, but I was literally going to vote before I saw WW's vote. I found Eevee's post very scummy. I still find IG scummy, but that wagon is stalled, for better or for worse.

Or you're just scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 26, 2014, 05:50:52 pm
Votes are serious business. You should remember making them.
Interesting that you say this after nearly derphammering me and then arguing how awesome derphammers are.

Mostly, I agree with this though. However, silver's early claim pretty much cut RVS to nothing, so I can understand Eeevee making his vote on me for slight reasons and later forgetting it.

PPE: silver
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 05:52:34 pm
I stand by that vote. There's no contradiction there at all. ANd SS, if you RVS (and I'm not at all conceding that Eevee's vote was RVS, but hypothetically if you do) someone and then a wagon builds on them and you don't move your vote, that's even scummier.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 26, 2014, 05:53:59 pm
So it's possible to believe that votes are very serious and then vote posting any reasoning and without really checking the thread at all, and nearly hammering someone by accident? And there's no contradiction there?

Sorry, but I don't really see it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:54:28 pm
How is it to play scum two games in a row? Are you getting better at it, or is it annoying because you'd rather be town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 05:54:36 pm
Votes are serious business. You should remember making them.
Oh the irony.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 05:56:16 pm
I stand by that vote. There's no contradiction there at all. ANd SS, if you RVS (and I'm not at all conceding that Eevee's vote was RVS, but hypothetically if you do) someone and then a wagon builds on them and you don't move your vote, that's even scummier.
The wagon formed and took off in like three hours, all of which I was offline. I couldn't move my vote because I wasn't present.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:56:34 pm
Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 05:57:20 pm
So it's possible to believe that votes are very serious and then vote posting any reasoning and without really checking the thread at all, and nearly hammering someone by accident? And there's no contradiction there?

Sorry, but I don't really see it.

I voted for you because I thought you were scum and I was sure enough to be ok with lynching you. That's a serious vote. I had reasoning, I just didn't post it because it had all been said before.

Eevee is saying that he didn't remember his vote and that it was a "pressure vote" which is somehow "not a serious vote" yet he didn't move it and you almost got lynched.

You don't see a difference there? I might not have realized how close to lynch you were, and that was sloppy play, but my vote was serious, I stood by it then, and I stand by it now. Eevee, on the other hand, just tried to backpedal away from his vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 05:57:33 pm
Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?
For me or for the player pool?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 05:58:06 pm
Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?
For me or for the player pool?
In general.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 26, 2014, 05:59:14 pm
So it's possible to believe that votes are very serious and then vote posting any reasoning and without really checking the thread at all, and nearly hammering someone by accident? And there's no contradiction there?

Sorry, but I don't really see it.

I voted for you because I thought you were scum and I was sure enough to be ok with lynching you. That's a serious vote. I had reasoning, I just didn't post it because it had all been said before.

Eevee is saying that he didn't remember his vote and that it was a "pressure vote" which is somehow "not a serious vote" yet he didn't move it and you almost got lynched.

You don't see a difference there? I might not have realized how close to lynch you were, and that was sloppy play, but my vote was serious, I stood by it then, and I stand by it now. Eevee, on the other hand, just tried to backpedal away from his vote.
This is a fair post. I mostly agree with what you have to say; however, I don't understand at all how Eevee can be more implicated from my wagon than you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 05:59:34 pm
Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?
For me or for the player pool?
In general.
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:01:12 pm
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.

Quote
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.

Does this mean joth gets town points?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:01:24 pm
The only blame I accept for Ichi-wagon are my leading questions that made him do all that stuff, bury himself.

Honestly, I voted to get more out of him, to help everyone make a read, and while I was gone for a couple of hours, you guys went crazy and almost accidentally lynched him. It's all good, stuff for us to analyze, but when I was casting my very first vote in the game, I couldn't have anticipated that happening.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:01:41 pm
Also, does one of you know more about joth's metagame?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:01:56 pm
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.

Quote
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.

Does this mean joth gets town points?
What are you getting at?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:02:54 pm
The only blame I accept for Ichi-wagon are my leading questions that made him do all that stuff, bury himself.

Honestly, I voted to get more out of him, to help everyone make a read, and while I was gone for a couple of hours, you guys went crazy and almost accidentally lynched him. It's all good, stuff for us to analyze, but when I was casting my very first vote in the game, I couldn't have anticipated that happening.

You defend yourself a little bit too much for my tastes.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:03:40 pm
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.

Quote
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.

Does this mean joth gets town points?
What are you getting at?

Joth put someone at L-1 without announcing it. Now he is saying that votes are serious business, that's contradicting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 06:05:18 pm
The only blame I accept for Ichi-wagon are my leading questions that made him do all that stuff, bury himself.

Honestly, I voted to get more out of him, to help everyone make a read, and while I was gone for a couple of hours, you guys went crazy and almost accidentally lynched him. It's all good, stuff for us to analyze, but when I was casting my very first vote in the game, I couldn't have anticipated that happening.

Ok, you are getting more believable actually. I need to actually look back at your Ichi vote.

For the record, I was voting Eevee based on a scummy post, not for his part in the Ichi wagon, which wouldn't make sense because I still think Ichi has a very good chance of being scum.

PPE:

Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.

Quote
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.

Does this mean joth gets town points?
What are you getting at?

Joth put someone at L-1 without announcing it. Now he is saying that votes are serious business, that's contradicting.

Here let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:06:32 pm
Also, does one of you know more about joth's metagame?
I've played these games with him for two and a half years, I think I have as good an idea as anyone.

Which basically is, he is so experienced you can't catch him by anything super simple and reliable. There is nothing concrete he does as town but doesn't as scum, or vice versa. He is himself the #1 expert on analyzing joth, and surely tries to mimic whatever patterns he has identified in his town play, or hide any tendencies he has as scum.

I will say that generally I feel he is mislynched more than your average player of his caliber, and doesn't have the reputation of striving as scum. Despite being analytical, he sometimes plays aggressive based on his gut or emotions.

Additionally, he just lost as scum, so maybe you'd expect him to be a bit reserved and cautious this time if he drew scum again.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:07:30 pm
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.

Quote
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.

Does this mean joth gets town points?
What are you getting at?

Joth put someone at L-1 without announcing it. Now he is saying that votes are serious business, that's contradicting.
That seems to be a double standard rather than a contradiction.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2014, 06:07:48 pm
I don't find anything particularly scummy about Joth here. He saw a wagon he liked, he voted, good for him. Hell, if he had cast a hammer vote like that I wouldn't have found it scummy. Scum plays way more careful than that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:08:24 pm
Quote
Here let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.


You seem to be stressed out. That reminds me a lot of your final moments in the James Bond Mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:09:33 pm
Quote
Here let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.


You seem to be stressed out. That reminds me a lot of your final moments in the James Bond Mafia.
When making comparisons to James Bond mafia, you should keep in mind that it's the same guy, whatever his role. They are bound to appear somewhat similar.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 06:10:08 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:10:26 pm
Quote
Here let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.


You seem to be stressed out. That reminds me a lot of your final moments in the James Bond Mafia.
When making comparisons to James Bond mafia, you should keep in mind that it's the same guy, whatever his role. They are bound to appear somewhat similar.

Not helping.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2014, 06:10:50 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

This is a little off to me. What do you think we should find eevee scummy for?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 06:11:01 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:11:53 pm
Sigh. unvote

This isn't going to go anywhere useful.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:12:37 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
What motivation would I have to lie about that?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 06:14:45 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

This is a little off to me. What do you think we should find eevee scummy for?

Hmm maybe I didn't explain myself correcly. I guess I'm saying if you find eevee scummy for other reasons I'll listen to those. But I'm not going to listen to a case on eevee where people seem to be blaming him for having a early vote on IG and then IG almost getting lynched. I don't think that vote was scummy at all.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 06:15:44 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.

Ok the forgetting about the vote makes a bit more sense to build a case on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:16:05 pm
Is it just me or is the hind leg of eevee three times as thick as the front leg in your picture?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 06:17:54 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
What motivation would I have to lie about that?

Distancing yourself from the wagon.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 06:19:02 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
What motivation would I have to lie about that?

Distancing yourself from the wagon.
Why would I have to, given my position in it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 06:23:17 pm
Another thing: besides me, who is the newest player in this game? hydrad?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 06:30:26 pm
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.

PPE:3

Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
What motivation would I have to lie about that?

Distancing yourself from the wagon.
Why would I have to, given my position in it?

There's a view reasons you might want to? If you're scum, you know Ichi's alignment. If Ichi is town and you think he's being lynched you don't want to look like you pushed/started that wagon tomorrow. If he's scum, you might want to be distancing yourself so you can segue into defending him without looking like you're flip-flopping.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 06:31:06 pm
Man I liked vote: Ichi better. I'm switching back. Kinda talked myself out of this Eevee case.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 06:31:26 pm
Another thing: besides me, who is the newest player in this game? hydrad?

I think so. I played like 2 games before you started.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: yuma on September 26, 2014, 06:54:13 pm
Vote Count 1.4

Ichimaru (2): ADK, joth
silverspawn (1): Jimmmmm
joth (1): Hydrad
Witherweaver (2): faust, Eevee
Eevee (1): Witherweaver
 
Not Voting (4): ashersky, xerxes, ichimaru, silver

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 26, 2014, 07:00:11 pm
I'll be posting in VLA, but I depart for a trip on Sunday night so I'll be less available.

I think joth is town.

Silver seem scummy.

Witherweaver seems towny.

The "scummy posts of Eevee" were indeed scummy.  Hedgy, so hedgy.  I think if Ichi is scum, Eevee has a high chance of also being scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 26, 2014, 07:31:54 pm
Is it just me or is the hind leg of eevee three times as thick as the front leg in your picture?
It's just sitting, so you can't see the leg.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 26, 2014, 07:36:22 pm
question. does everyone usually have a person that they can't read at all? Because right now I'll say that I think XP is scummy slightly. But in every game I've played with him I've basically seen him scummy and been wrong about it. I don't know why but I just can't figure it out. I know hes only posted 3 posts right now so I can't read him right away and hopefully I will have a better read after a bit more. But my gut reaction right now is a scummy XP...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 07:40:58 pm
Quote
I think joth is town.

Silver seem scummy.

Witherweaver seems towny.

The "scummy posts of Eevee" were indeed scummy.  Hedgy, so hedgy.  I think if Ichi is scum, Eevee has a high chance of also being scum.

Is this a hidden message? You post reverse reads on what makes sense on everyone.

let me translate:

You think joth might be scum.

silver seems towny

WW seems scummy

The votes of Eevee don't mean anything

that sounds right.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 08:40:52 pm
Huh?  Ash makes sense.  Joth seems quite town, I'm clearly town and playing townie, and Eevees post was scummy.  The only thing I disagree on is Silver, unless the SK theory holds up.  (I'm leaning no.)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 08:43:13 pm
I guess we found that thing we disagree on!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 09:01:02 pm
Pretty sure that means you're scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 09:02:15 pm
Oh come on now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 26, 2014, 09:03:03 pm
I might be right.  You should check.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2014, 09:04:06 pm
Let's not get arrogant. I'm the expert on my role here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 09:24:04 pm
Is it just me or is the hind leg of eevee three times as thick as the front leg in your picture?
It's just sitting, so you can't see the leg.

...... that should make sense, but I don't see it
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2014, 10:12:35 pm
question. does everyone usually have a person that they can't read at all? Because right now I'll say that I think XP is scummy slightly. But in every game I've played with him I've basically seen him scummy and been wrong about it. I don't know why but I just can't figure it out. I know hes only posted 3 posts right now so I can't read him right away and hopefully I will have a better read after a bit more. But my gut reaction right now is a scummy XP...

I feel that way about everyone. I'm pretty bad at mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 26, 2014, 10:14:43 pm
I'm pretty bad at mafia.

Scumtell for you, man.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 26, 2014, 10:39:09 pm
ash you wanted to reply last monday. has something come up or did you just forget it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 12:17:13 am
ash you wanted to reply last monday. has something come up or did you just forget it?

Reply to what?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 27, 2014, 12:19:56 am
uh... my pm?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 12:21:52 am
uh... my pm?

Oh, about your setup?

Yeah, I haven't had time to delve into it.  Probably better for you have asked by PM about your PM, not in this game thread, as it made no sense to me here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 27, 2014, 12:24:02 am
this way seemed more casual
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2014, 12:28:28 am
this way seems a lot like poor mafia sportsmanship. One should not be discussing anything related to the game via PM. By extension, one shouldn't discuss PMs in the game, as your mutual referencing of a message that contains non-public information could be seen as talking in code.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 12:33:13 am
this way seems a lot like poor mafia sportsmanship. One should not be discussing anything related to the game via PM. By extension, one shouldn't discuss PMs in the game, as your mutual referencing of a message that contains non-public information could be seen as talking in code.

I agree.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 27, 2014, 12:45:45 am
this way seems a lot like poor mafia sportsmanship. One should not be discussing anything related to the game via PM. By extension, one shouldn't discuss PMs in the game, as your mutual referencing of a message that contains non-public information could be seen as talking in code.

I think it's fine (well I thought about it before I did it, and decided it was fine, otherwise I would not have done it). Firstly, it's obvious that the other way is BM. You can't discuss the game, or anything related to the game outside of the game, because that's just the rules. However, I don't see a problem with discussing outside stuff inside of the game. We discuss avatars during the game, and noone has a problem with that. Chairs mentioned stuff about his kid, and noone has a problem with that, and I'm sure there are other examples.

You made a point about non-public information. While I totally agree that you could figure out a way to cheat like this, I don't think that's reason. There is actually zero assurance that players don't cheat. If you want to cheat in f.ds mafia, you don't need to invent codes or send hidden messages, you can just do it via pm, and there is nothing that can stop you. You just have to trust the players not to do it.

And another thing is, even if you ask something about mafia in general, it's not related to the game. If you look close enough, you'll see that you do this all the time. You saying that it might not be okay is not related to the game. You could have done that via pm.

So, I really don't think it's a problem.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 27, 2014, 12:49:17 am
I also think it can be possible to create reads from discussing things in the game that are not related to the game, because players might have a different mindset or be more/less willing to do so if they are or are not town. My post, for example, has brought attention to me, even though it was not related to the game. In this game, my first post was  a claim, so I obviously don't mind the attention here, but I might not want it as scum.

Stuff like the above has happened before I think.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 27, 2014, 05:27:30 am
Eevee's post was a bit scummy, I can agree there, but overall I find WW scummier.

silverspawn shouldn't discuss anything related to secret infomation in thread. At the very least, I hope you talk these things over with yuma before you do them. We don't want you modkilled or something (probably).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 27, 2014, 02:15:30 pm
question. does everyone usually have a person that they can't read at all? Because right now I'll say that I think XP is scummy slightly. But in every game I've played with him I've basically seen him scummy and been wrong about it. I don't know why but I just can't figure it out. I know hes only posted 3 posts right now so I can't read him right away and hopefully I will have a better read after a bit more. But my gut reaction right now is a scummy XP...
Yeah, you and silverspawn seem to have this automatically part of your reads, so I have to not OMGUS especially with you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 27, 2014, 03:36:08 pm
So things seem to have stalled a little bit, which isn't good. A lot of the crazy action first thing is kinda over, and now we're left trying to analyze everything that happened regarding my wagon and silver's claim.
It's good to see XP here.
I don't really buy the scum case against Eevee. At this point, I don't have many strong reads either way. Mostly, I still fault silver and joth for opportunistic voting (I know joth had reasons, but I still feel he should have put them with his vote). I'm glad at least that my wagon gives us a lot of information and stuff to analyze. Pretty much everyone made a commitment to it one way or the other, so that's good.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 27, 2014, 05:34:14 pm
I think silver's off-topic posts are distracting and therefore somewhat scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2014, 09:22:32 pm
Maybe coming from a vet but I think from a newer player still learning the ropes of the etiquette and such it's whatever.

But I'm still leaning scum on the whole VT claim thing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 27, 2014, 10:12:14 pm
I honestly don't think the silver lynch is happening. Got any other plans?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 27, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
You guys may want to take a look at this.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.msg424638#msg424638 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.msg424638#msg424638)

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 10:17:30 pm
There's a backup mod.  I think we just have to play on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 27, 2014, 10:17:52 pm
There's a backup mod.  I think we just have to play on.
Ok. I was unsure about that.

Thank you for telling me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 10:19:17 pm
There's a backup mod.  I think we just have to play on.
Ok. I was unsure about that.

Thank you for telling me.

mail-mi can confirm for us, but I assume he has access to the mod QT and all that.  It's a semi-open setup anyway.

It's really sad, but I see this as his final legacy game, given he invented it.  Let's do him the honor of playing it out strongly.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 27, 2014, 10:23:16 pm
I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM.  I'm going to ignore it.  I suggest we examine his other play.   Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 27, 2014, 10:25:00 pm
I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM.  I'm going to ignore it.  I suggest we examine his other play.   Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.

I mean, there's definitely "newbie town just claims VT because it's sort of boring to be a VT and what harm can come of it" claiming, and then there's "I'm well aware that there's a newbie type of claiming that will be forgive and give me lots of towncred" claiming.

It's hard to tell the difference.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2014, 10:28:14 pm
I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM.  I'm going to ignore it.  I suggest we examine his other play.   Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.

I mean, there's definitely "newbie town just claims VT because it's sort of boring to be a VT and what harm can come of it" claiming, and then there's "I'm well aware that there's a newbie type of claiming that will be forgive and give me lots of towncred" claiming.

It's hard to tell the difference.
I definitely don't think silverspawn is doing the former, but I'm don't agree it means that it has to be the latter.

I think, whatever SS's alignment, he did give this issue more thought than "it's so boring to be a VT". He claims he still thinks what he did is helping town.. I don't know if I agree, but just how bold it is feels quite town to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 27, 2014, 10:32:50 pm
I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM.  I'm going to ignore it.  I suggest we examine his other play.   Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.

I mean, there's definitely "newbie town just claims VT because it's sort of boring to be a VT and what harm can come of it" claiming, and then there's "I'm well aware that there's a newbie type of claiming that will be forgive and give me lots of towncred" claiming.

It's hard to tell the difference.
I definitely don't think silverspawn is doing the former, but I'm don't agree it means that it has to be the latter.

I think, whatever SS's alignment, he did give this issue more thought than "it's so boring to be a VT". He claims he still thinks what he did is helping town.. I don't know if I agree, but just how bold it is feels quite town to me.
Exactly. SS has at least 100% alluded to having a reason for his claim. I do not see him doing this as "newbie play". How many games has he been in so far? At any rate, that alone clears some sort of newbie defense for me--not that I think silver would want to make that defense anyway. I just wish he would tell us his reasoning, but his new playstyle is more cryptic apparently.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2014, 10:37:43 pm
Silverspawn is like one of the top 15 dominion players in the world. Dude is obviously very very smart. No "I honestly didn't think of it much" defense applies here, not that I think he would want to use one.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 27, 2014, 10:48:32 pm
He has a couple games under his belt, not really so newbieish.  I think he had a plan.  Scum or Town is not really discernable from that alone
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2014, 10:51:28 pm
He has a couple games under his belt, not really so newbieish.  I think he had a plan.  Scum or Town is not really discernable from that alone
Other in that town is more likely to go for a bold plan.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2014, 10:52:53 pm
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2014, 10:54:45 pm
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2014, 10:55:52 pm
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
Does scum ever make a plan, not invent a reason and just claim to not be willing to explain their reason when pressed?

No, I think town or scum, he thought through everything through about this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 27, 2014, 10:56:46 pm
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.

Faith is about not having information.  If you knew his plan, you could reason out whether it was good or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2014, 10:58:00 pm
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
It would be nice to here something like that from him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on September 28, 2014, 12:10:13 am
I have asked yuma what will happen with the modding situation. For now, play on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: mail-mi on September 28, 2014, 12:16:01 am
Vote Count 1.5

Ichimaru (2): ADK, joth
silverspawn (1): Jimmmmm
joth (1): Hydrad
Witherweaver (2): faust, Eevee
Eevee (1): Witherweaver
 
Not Voting (4): ashersky, xerxes, ichimaru, silver

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 28, 2014, 12:19:02 am
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
It would be nice to here something like that from him.

Given Eevee gave him this answer, he could just quote it.

I'll vote: Eevee at this point.  Scummy odd hedging before (Eevee is not a hedger -- he's a buddier, but not a hedger) and then feeding Silver lines.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 28, 2014, 12:51:26 am
Let's say my plan was to force reactions. If I opened the game with "Hey, I'm a VT. I'm telling you this to see how you react," the usefulness of the whole claim would have flown right out the window. Sure, I could tell it now, but there's no harm if I don't. I assure you that it would not help us if I did. If anything, it would make me look better, but it's really easy for scum!me to say, yea I wanted to force reactions.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Robz888 on September 28, 2014, 01:18:19 am
I'm just catching up with some Forum stuff... it looks like we are all set here though, with mail-mi taking over? Let me know if this isn't the case. Otherwise, play on!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Robz888 on September 28, 2014, 01:18:38 am
And can I get the speccy?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 28, 2014, 06:45:04 pm
Crickets! And I'm the biggest wagon, yikes.

I don't know why "feeding silver lines is scummy", but since he isn't telling us anything, all we can do is speculate. I don't know if I've been any more hedgy than usual, day 1 all your reads are still kind of fuzzy (see what I did there?).

I'm emerging with a stronger and stronger non-mafia (town, or maybe SK) read on SS. Joth, as I explained also a town read, although lighter. Faust has made sense to me, small town read for that.

I guess anyone else I could see myself voting really. Might need to do some rereading to find a candidate I really like, for now faust's case on WW is my favorite.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 28, 2014, 07:01:49 pm
Crickets! And I'm the biggest wagon, yikes.

I don't know why "feeding silver lines is scummy", but since he isn't telling us anything, all we can do is speculate. I don't know if I've been any more hedgy than usual, day 1 all your reads are still kind of fuzzy (see what I did there?).

I'm emerging with a stronger and stronger non-mafia (town, or maybe SK) read on SS. Joth, as I explained also a town read, although lighter. Faust has made sense to me, small town read for that.

I guess anyone else I could see myself voting really. Might need to do some rereading to find a candidate I really like, for now faust's case on WW is my favorite.

I thought it was your case first...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 28, 2014, 07:08:43 pm
So, I'm rereading, trying to make sense of all the crazy stuff that happened. A timeline:

#61: silverspawn claims VT
#74: Ichi wants to know why silverspawn doesn't want to talk about his claim
#78: Eevee votes Ichi in response
#86: Eevee asks why scum!silverspawn would want to draw attention like that
#87: ashersky says he might have a plan
#90: Jimmmmm votes silverspawn
#100: ashersky "doesn't like the claim"
#119: joth doesn't think silverspawn is scum
#132: WW presses silverspawn to talk about his claim
#145: ADK votes Ichi for hedging on silverspawn
#147: ADK proposes the SK!silverspawn theory, votes him
#149: WW says it "makes some sense"
#152: Ichi agrees with ADK
#158: WW explains my vote on silverspawn
#166: WW votes Ichi
#169: silverspawn presents a very odd view on ethics
#170: silverspawn votes Ichi
#175: WW says I could be Ichi's partner
#181: joth votes Ichi, L-1
#190: WW asks Ichi what he'll flip
#195: WW unvotes
#211: joth unvotes
#225: WW admits to having known Ichi was not hammered when pressing him to claim
#235: ADK votes Ichi

Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.

Vote: Witherweaver
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 28, 2014, 09:36:47 pm
Ash makes sense, so I'll sheep him. Or maybe IG again. Noone seems very towny at all. vote: eevee
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 28, 2014, 09:56:20 pm
What Eevee is doing seems logical/honest to me. I'm in a weird position here, but I really don't find it scummy. Maybe it's because I've never seen scum!Eevee. But I'm not voting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 28, 2014, 09:59:45 pm
Ash makes sense, so I'll sheep him. Or maybe IG again. Noone seems very towny at all. vote: eevee
I literally feel like I'm your #1 suspect in every game we play.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2014, 11:06:38 pm
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.

So I guess, out of those players:

ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.

I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 28, 2014, 11:23:48 pm
I agree with your points ADK. Though I don't think XP has gotten much suspicion either from what I remember.
Neither he nor Jimmmmm were around for my wagon though.

Still don't get much of the votes on Eevee. And not sure what to make of silver here either. Blah, I feel like something else has to happen to get this game rolling again. Some town points go to everyone that's at least around and posting a fair amount I guess.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 29, 2014, 08:07:19 am
Ash makes sense, so I'll sheep him. Or maybe IG again. Noone seems very towny at all. vote: eevee
I literally feel like I'm your #1 suspect in every game we play.

Sorry - it's just that you generally (like when I'm spectating) look really towny to me, so maybe I'm overcompensating.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 29, 2014, 08:08:59 am
And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 29, 2014, 08:10:52 am
And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it.
It's been easy to avoid scrutiny, because IG and silver have been dominating the day so much.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 29, 2014, 11:10:55 am
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.

So I guess, out of those players:

ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.

I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.

Phew, I always get accused of "blending in"; maybe I should claim VT more often.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2014, 11:25:00 am
Not completely up to date yet. I find these two posts by Ichi scummy:

Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7

I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.

Checking reveals that he has changed his avatar back, so I am free to vote elsewhere now. Didn't you policy vote Jimmmmm as well for the same reason? We're probably in different time zones though, cause when I went to bed, he was still Robz.

Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.

Vote: silverspawn

ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
My vote was about as close to a policy vote as I've ever done. It's confusing as heck having a fake Robz running around.

I find your theory on SS highly plausible. It would explain his refusal to give reasoning for his "claim" and him claiming in the first place. He had to have known that he would get heat for it though. The SK win condition seems pretty chancy given that if some mafia die first, they have no chance of winning. So maybe he just decided to have fun with things.

PPE: I am ready to vote for silverspawn. I find this a little odd, since it's like SK hunting--but I think ADK's theory makes the most sense so far.

PPE: more

Just getting the sense that he's trying too hard to come up with reasons to do things. It's relatively minor, but it's a scum vibe, and enough for a Vote: Ichi for now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 29, 2014, 12:08:13 pm
Phew, I always get accused of "blending in"; maybe I should claim VT more often.

If you want any further strategic advise from a real pro, just ask.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 12:35:16 pm
Hmm are you guys thinking joth is town because of his meta that I don't know? Or for other reasons. I find it interesting that no one else seems to think joth is scummy. Maybe I'm just missing something. Other then joth though I like fausts case on WW. I can see a couple town points in seeing if IG makes a town slip. But its so much better for scum if IG made a PR slip there. I think it was a more scummy move then town so I'm going to

Vote: WW
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 12:38:11 pm
Hmm are you guys thinking joth is town because of his meta that I don't know? Or for other reasons. I find it interesting that no one else seems to think joth is scummy. Maybe I'm just missing something. Other then joth though I like fausts case on WW. I can see a couple town points in seeing if IG makes a town slip. But its so much better for scum if IG made a PR slip there. I think it was a more scummy move then town so I'm going to

Vote: WW

Terrible logic, try again.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 12:38:53 pm
We ask town to claim when they're at L-1.  How was this not better?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 12:48:27 pm
We ask town to claim when they're at L-1.  How was this not better?

Because at L-1 they might get lynched if they don't claim in those situations. IG wasn't really in danger of getting lynched yet really. he got to L-1 but if people knew he was that close no one was going to hammer. He didn't need to claim at all in that situation.

What ended up happening was trying to get IG to claim day 1. which doesn't really help town at all. If he said he was a PR then all scum does is kill him that night and we lost a PR right away.

I think claiming on day 1 is usually really bad as town will almost never get to use their power and scum just hits all of them. Thats why I think its scummy. If IG was actually in danger of getting lynched then maybe a claim is ok. but not when he is totally fine.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 29, 2014, 12:51:14 pm
Without posting a full reads list, I can say that I find WW very towny. But I have never seen scum!WW, so I may just be fooled easily.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 12:52:24 pm
He was at L-1.  Had the whole "I thought I got lynched" thing not happened, he would be asked to claim at some point.  If he claims PR as town, scum knows he's telling the truth, so they kill him.  We don't know if he is or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 12:55:20 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 01:39:37 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 01:58:31 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.

You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 02:04:56 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.

You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?

Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 02:07:24 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.

You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?

Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.

As I said before, I was trying to get him talking for info.  Him saying his role was a risk I was willing to take.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 29, 2014, 03:47:33 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.

You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?

Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.

As I said before, I was trying to get him talking for info.  Him saying his role was a risk I was willing to take.
I stand by my decision to not claim--you would have found out when I flipped anyway. Essentially, you lied in order to try and extract information from me, which I 100% view as anti-town behavior. Since it looks like you don't view that behavior as anti-town, I think it's a perfectly plausible scum move on your part.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 04:00:07 pm
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad.  How could Ichi be okay?  Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?

I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.

You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?

Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.

As I said before, I was trying to get him talking for info.  Him saying his role was a risk I was willing to take.
I stand by my decision to not claim--you would have found out when I flipped anyway. Essentially, you lied in order to try and extract information from me, which I 100% view as anti-town behavior. Since it looks like you don't view that behavior as anti-town, I think it's a perfectly plausible scum move on your part.

You can view it as anti-town, but you're wrong.  A better argument would be that scum!me was acting in a pro-town way for town points.

Figuring out if you're town or scum is clearly in our best interest.

And I didn't lie.  I withheld information, something town players do all the time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 04:01:44 pm
The information I was withholding was also public knowledge; just because you weren't aware of it doesn't make it any less public.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2014, 04:14:07 pm
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.

So I guess, out of those players:

ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.

I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.

Phew, I always get accused of "blending in"; maybe I should claim VT more often.

Probably because you're fairly calm and rational and don't do crazy things, really.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2014, 04:14:27 pm
But I have never seen scum!WW

 :o
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
On the Ichi thing- I think it's misleading to say that WW was trying to get Ichi to claim a PR, he was trying to get Ichi to reveal information regarding his alignment since Ichi had thought he was lynched. Which I don't think was scummy at all, I showed up a little late to the party but I can see myself doing something similar.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 04:16:32 pm
But I have never seen scum!WW

 :o

To be fair I havn't either. My first game I joined was right when WW stopped being scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 04:21:00 pm
ADK defending and not accusing me... he must be scum!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 05:27:22 pm
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum?  I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.

Also, we need some, like, good cases.  Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 05:28:59 pm
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum?  I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.

Also, we need some, like, good cases.  Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?

I saw it as frustrated town IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 05:54:01 pm
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum?  I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.

Also, we need some, like, good cases.  Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?

I saw it as frustrated town IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning.

"town" seems completely arbitrary in there.  Why not frustrated scum IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 29, 2014, 06:00:52 pm
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum?  I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.

Also, we need some, like, good cases.  Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?

I saw it as frustrated town IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning.

"town" seems completely arbitrary in there.  Why not frustrated scum IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning?

because I got a town vibe from IG before the "lynch" happened. Everyone else seems to think his defense was crazy but in dice mafia the same kinda thing happened where everyone was saying he was defending to much on day 1 and he ended up being town there to. This is the same vibe I get from that game and feel it is frustrated town IG.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 29, 2014, 06:02:23 pm
Okay.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 29, 2014, 07:08:05 pm
Can we just lynch IG or at least someone? Nobody's close enough to being lynched for anything to happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on September 29, 2014, 08:08:11 pm
Can we just lynch IG or at least someone? Nobody's close enough to being lynched for anything to happen.

I was having this exact same thought.  I mean, not IG specifically, but a lynch needs to happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: mail-mi on September 29, 2014, 08:16:01 pm
Vote Count 1.6

Ichimaru (3): ADK, joth, Jimmmmm
Witherweaver (3): faust, Eevee, Hydrad
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, xerxes,
 
Not Voting (2): ichimaru, silver

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 01:33:52 am
I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.

I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 03:19:20 am
I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.

I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.

Well then, vote. We need to get some wagons rolling at some point. With three players at three votes, those not voting should take stances, or else this will stall.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 05:32:45 am
alright

vote: IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 05:33:00 am
*bold

vote: IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 05:33:16 am
this is L-2
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 12:38:27 pm
silverspawn, do you care to explain why you unvoted Ichi before and are now revoting?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 12:45:15 pm
silverspawn, do you care to explain why you unvoted Ichi before and are now revoting?

The first vote was purely for pressure and didn't have anything to do with my read on him. But as it happens, I actually do find him scummy, so I'm voting for real now.

The deadline is coming closer, so it's time for serious votes. Otherwise, we don't get anywhere.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 12:50:44 pm
silverspawn, do you care to explain why you unvoted Ichi before and are now revoting?

The first vote was purely for pressure and didn't have anything to do with my read on him. But as it happens, I actually do find him scummy, so I'm voting for real now.

The deadline is coming closer, so it's time for serious votes. Otherwise, we don't get anywhere.

What is scummy about Ichi?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 12:57:52 pm
I also find him scummy, in that he isn't towny.vote:IG

Also, if he flips scum, I'm looking at faust.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 12:58:15 pm
This is a very strange question, after what has happened.

I agree with what WW (and others) said here. His reaction to the supposed hammer didn't scream town to me.

Also, this quote

Only one way to find out. . . ;D

it looks pretty nullish, but I feel like it's slightly more likely for scum to make it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:00:22 pm
But the WIFOM here is insane.
Only for scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:01:38 pm
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".
Where no suspicion is due?

Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.

PPE: 7

I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.

Checking reveals that he has changed his avatar back, so I am free to vote elsewhere now. Didn't you policy vote Jimmmmm as well for the same reason? We're probably in different time zones though, cause when I went to bed, he was still Robz.

Hmm. Something about this looks suspicious.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:01:58 pm
Also, it's pretty obvious, but L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2014, 01:04:38 pm
doublevotehammer: IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 30, 2014, 01:05:49 pm
Just woke up. I am at L-1

Wow, guess I'll be derphammered twice this game.
I've said what I've said in my defense. If that hasn't convinced you or the multiple insane ramp ups of my wagon, I don't know.

I still don't like WW trying to force a claim out of me under false pretenses--no matter how he tries to defend it. So vote: WW
I will repeat that I stand by my decision to not claim. I really can't believe the lazy votes on me, and all I ask is that people look at the poor votes on me.

PPE: vote: XP

OMGUS for getting no suspicion, making poor votes on me and then trying to fabricate more suspicion on me with vague unfounded statements.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:07:31 pm
Hmmm. That sounds really towny.  unvote
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:09:56 pm
Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 30, 2014, 01:10:47 pm
Hmmm. That sounds really towny.  unvote
Was this just sarcasm, because I'm not entirely getting what you mean here and in your other post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 01:13:18 pm
Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG

?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 01:43:35 pm
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:57:13 pm
Yeah, I have in fact been lurking, but that's because I was busy thinking about the other game. Now that that's boring I can lynch scum here.

And no, that's wasn't sarcasm. Your L-1 does in fact look towny, but I'm kind of worried about losing scum at the last minute.

Looks likes there's someone more scummy now, though: Eevee.

I've learnt from experience that scum tries to mislynch me a lot. In fact, so much it feels like a valid scumtell. Of course, now I won't be able to use this in the future, but I'm trying to win this game. Also, I don't think opportunistic voting in the sense of trying to get a lynch and voting people less than maximally scummy is a scumtell, but eevee appears to try to start a lynch on me that IG supports because of being scared, which is opportunistic, so he's being hypocritical.

vote: Eevee
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on September 30, 2014, 01:58:08 pm
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

Quietly?!?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2014, 02:22:44 pm
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

Does scum post "And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it."? Seems ballsy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2014, 02:25:29 pm
I agree Xerxes has been lurky and hasn't done anything noteworthy other than being really antsy to lynch IG, without actually presenting any case on him at all.

But I just don't believe that scum would be that obvious. I still like IG today, revisit XP tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 03:20:51 pm
You also sheeped ash on me immediately, and not only do I know the case is wrong, I found the reasons flimsy as well.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 03:21:50 pm
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

Does scum post "And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it."? Seems ballsy.
I think they do. Scum is very self-conscious. People used to find "pre-emptively calling yourself out for lurking" very scummy in the past, not sure why that's not a thing anymore.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2014, 03:26:58 pm
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

Does scum post "And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it."? Seems ballsy.
I think they do. Scum is very self-conscious. People used to find "pre-emptively calling yourself out for lurking" very scummy in the past, not sure why that's not a thing anymore.

It's absolutely not how I would play scum -- because why give everyone else ideas? But I can accept that other people might play it that way.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 03:56:14 pm
Yeah, I have in fact been lurking, but that's because I was busy thinking about the other game. Now that that's boring I can lynch scum here.

And no, that's wasn't sarcasm. Your L-1 does in fact look towny, but I'm kind of worried about losing scum at the last minute.

Looks likes there's someone more scummy now, though: Eevee.

I've learnt from experience that scum tries to mislynch me a lot. In fact, so much it feels like a valid scumtell. Of course, now I won't be able to use this in the future, but I'm trying to win this game. Also, I don't think opportunistic voting in the sense of trying to get a lynch and voting people less than maximally scummy is a scumtell, but eevee appears to try to start a lynch on me that IG supports because of being scared, which is opportunistic, so he's being hypocritical.

vote: Eevee
This is really just a glorified OMGUS, by the way. I don't think it's fair to characterize you as an easy mislynch when you have 0 votes this close to the deadline. If I wanted an easy mislynch, surely I too would be aboard the Ichi wagon (unless he was my partner, or course).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 30, 2014, 04:05:24 pm
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2014, 04:29:00 pm
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.

LOL. Why does everyone think it's protown for lynches to happen at the last possible second? Deadline chaos = sloppiness scum can exploit. What's going to magically happen in 4 days anyway?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 30, 2014, 04:31:47 pm
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.

LOL. Why does everyone think it's protown for lynches to happen at the last possible second? Deadline chaos = sloppiness scum can exploit. What's going to magically happen in 4 days anyway?

I don't think we have to wait till last second. But I feel like people are a bit to worried? I don't know. when i read these posts at first I thought the day was ending like tomorrow. I'm not saying we should wait till the last second but I do think we can wait a couple days still. I guess I'm hoping there could still be some info that will help us find scum today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 04:41:20 pm
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.

LOL. Why does everyone think it's protown for lynches to happen at the last possible second? Deadline chaos = sloppiness scum can exploit. What's going to magically happen in 4 days anyway?

I so much agree with this post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on September 30, 2014, 04:49:48 pm
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 04:52:10 pm
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.
[/quote

Eevee is a good option.

I'm also thinking Hydrad seems to be white knighting.

I can still see Ichi going either way.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 04:52:26 pm
Sigh, moving out of quote:

Eevee is a good option.

I'm also thinking Hydrad seems to be white knighting.

I can still see Ichi going either way.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 30, 2014, 04:58:27 pm
Sigh, moving out of quote:

Eevee is a good option.

I'm also thinking Hydrad seems to be white knighting.

I can still see Ichi going either way.

I'm unfamiliar with the white knighting term?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:01:41 pm
Means you're defending people.  It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town.  Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!"  I have a tendency to do it.

Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town.  Moreso than an uniformed you should be.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:03:16 pm
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon").  So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.

If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town.   The other direction doesn't apply though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 30, 2014, 05:09:27 pm
Means you're defending people.  It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town.  Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!"  I have a tendency to do it.

Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town.  Moreso than an uniformed you should be.

Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.

I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2014, 05:12:27 pm
Means you're defending people.  It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town.  Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!"  I have a tendency to do it.

Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town.  Moreso than an uniformed you should be.

Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.

I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.

Oh good then. We'll just run eveyrone up to L1 and then lynch whoever Hydrad isn't 100% confident is town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:12:50 pm
Means you're defending people.  It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town.  Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!"  I have a tendency to do it.

Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town.  Moreso than an uniformed you should be.

Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.

I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.

Oh good then. We'll just run eveyrone up to L1 and then lynch whoever Hydrad isn't 100% confident is town.

Sweet.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 05:18:24 pm
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.
I'm not opposed to switching back. Others, thoughts on WW?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:19:32 pm
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.
I'm not opposed to switching back. Others, thoughts on WW?

I'm opposed.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 05:21:19 pm
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon").  So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.

If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town.   The other direction doesn't apply though.
Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.

Why do you think I'm scum? We've usually done excellent at identifying each other as town, so it feels weird to be at odds with you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:25:07 pm
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon").  So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.

If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town.   The other direction doesn't apply though.
Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.

Why do you think I'm scum? We've usually done excellent at identifying each other as town, so it feels weird to be at odds with you.

Originally it was a post that seemed careful and hedgey.. then you got called out for it, and I didn't find anything about your response all that convincing. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on September 30, 2014, 05:28:10 pm
Means you're defending people.  It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town.  Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!"  I have a tendency to do it.

Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town.  Moreso than an uniformed you should be.

Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.

I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.

Oh good then. We'll just run eveyrone up to L1 and then lynch whoever Hydrad isn't 100% confident is town.

I worded that wrong. I've quite a few times where I've been pretty sure if someones town or not. But its not every lynch that happens.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 05:28:56 pm
I guess I'm hedgy in that I don't have a strong opinion about IG, but I don't see anything else that matches your description (and I'm not scum, I'm not going to fabricate an opinion on IG, obviously).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on September 30, 2014, 05:29:46 pm
I guess I'm hedgy in that I don't have a strong opinion about IG, but I don't see anything else that matches your description (and I'm not scum, I'm not going to fabricate an opinion on IG, obviously).

Also I don't have any other great ideas :(
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 05:30:44 pm
I guess I'm hedgy in that I don't have a strong opinion about IG, but I don't see anything else that matches your description (and I'm not scum, I'm not going to fabricate an opinion on IG, obviously).

Also I don't have any other great ideas :(
Reread xerxes and see what you think. Doesn't take long.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on September 30, 2014, 11:43:51 pm
It's not good that the day has stalled, but I'm not sure if there's a ton to be done at that point. You guys are pretty much exaggerating what Hydrad was saying--in the same way people are exaggerating how close the deadline is.
You can put off my mislynch for another 2 days with 2 days left over if you still want to lynch me. With this little total discussion D1, there's room for a lot more.
I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me. It's getting late and not much more to say since nothing much has really happened. I like my vote on XP and hate to see joth trying to end this day so quickly. I understand that D1 can be annoying cause there's really no concrete information like flips, but it is important to have discussion and info to refer back to. Although we do have some strong sentiments regarding my near mislynch and silver's claim, there's not much else.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2014, 11:51:04 pm
I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.
These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 01, 2014, 12:01:19 am
I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.
These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good idea
-WW defending him pushing me to claim even though I wasn't hammered
-No one really picking up on XP's hugely scummy behavior: lurking, sheeping votes, joining easy wagons and pushing them, not being around for important events like silver's claim--and not really commenting on them.
-People finding you (Eevee) scummy for reasons that make no sense to me
-Everyone just accepting silver's claim

I don't know, most of that behavior that I list makes very little sense to me, and I feel like scum is just getting away with blatantly sheeping my wagon and trying to mislynch me for the second time today.
So people can just claim VT right away and get virtually no pressure, that must be great. I understand that I distracted from it, but silver's  claim is still a very important event of this day that people seem to be ignoring.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 01, 2014, 02:07:51 am
The XP case is looking strong. I have to reread him in James Bond Mafia, but right now I think he's almost as good as IG.

One of these two should be our lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 09:47:25 am
XP always feels like town!XP to me.

Ichi and Hydrad always feel like scum to me.

The things XP always gets called out for are traits he always displays as town, so I tend to always see him that way. I don't have much of a gut town instinct on him here.. more, like I think, "would he talk about how suspicious or scummy he is as scum?"

I wouldn't oppose XP. The only player I have a real town read on is Joth.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 01, 2014, 10:09:26 am
Doing a complete reread.

Reads from this, town to scum:

faust

silverspawn - VT claim. I kind of don't think he would do that if he had a partner, so if he's scum, it's either Traitor or SK. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today.
Ichimaru - suggests silverspawn is lying. I somehow don't think scum does that... thinks maybe, but doesn't post stuff like that. It's not good for town to post it, but I think it's more likely to come from town. His defensiveness and unwillingness to claim does not point towards him being scum for me.

joth - the vote on Ichi was sheepy. Seems a bit careless and I believe that's more likely to come from town.
ADK - starts SK hunting. Overall his posts seem like genuine scumhunting to me though.
Eevee - after all the Ichi craziness, says his flip will provide information... that is always a somewhat scummy motive for a lynch. Sheeps my WW case, which isn't a huge red flag, because obviously it was a really good case. Overall, I agree with him a lot. Slight town.

Jimmmmm - vote silver because VT claim is "not good". That is the only thing I put down. Not good, much lurking.
hydrad - asks what JK means, some scum points for that. Not much else, pretty null overall.

ashersky - says he has a plan, then doesn't. Seems a bit like emulating his town meta here. It also takes a long time for him to get into real scumhunting, not sure what that means.

xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.

So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.

I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 10:22:16 am
Doing a complete reread.

Reads from this, town to scum:

faust

silverspawn - VT claim. I kind of don't think he would do that if he had a partner, so if he's scum, it's either Traitor or SK. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today.
Ichimaru - suggests silverspawn is lying. I somehow don't think scum does that... thinks maybe, but doesn't post stuff like that. It's not good for town to post it, but I think it's more likely to come from town. His defensiveness and unwillingness to claim does not point towards him being scum for me.

joth - the vote on Ichi was sheepy. Seems a bit careless and I believe that's more likely to come from town.
ADK - starts SK hunting. Overall his posts seem like genuine scumhunting to me though.
Eevee - after all the Ichi craziness, says his flip will provide information... that is always a somewhat scummy motive for a lynch. Sheeps my WW case, which isn't a huge red flag, because obviously it was a really good case. Overall, I agree with him a lot. Slight town.

Jimmmmm - vote silver because VT claim is "not good". That is the only thing I put down. Not good, much lurking.
hydrad - asks what JK means, some scum points for that. Not much else, pretty null overall.

ashersky - says he has a plan, then doesn't. Seems a bit like emulating his town meta here. It also takes a long time for him to get into real scumhunting, not sure what that means.

xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.

So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.

I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.

Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me.  And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move.  How is that a good case?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 01, 2014, 10:26:14 am
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me.  And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move.  How is that a good case?

I don't know why it should not fit a scum narrative for you. And I don't think it was a good town move. And anyway that's not the whole case on you. This is what I mean by twisting words.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 10:28:03 am
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me.  And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move.  How is that a good case?

I don't know why it should not fit a scum narrative for you. And I don't think it was a good town move. And anyway that's not the whole case on you. This is what I mean by twisting words.

Then I in no way understand the rest of the case.

How was it not a good town move? 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 01, 2014, 10:31:40 am
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me.  And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move.  How is that a good case?

I don't know why it should not fit a scum narrative for you. And I don't think it was a good town move. And anyway that's not the whole case on you. This is what I mean by twisting words.

Then I in no way understand the rest of the case.

How was it not a good town move?

It was not a good town move because it might have outed a town PR, and I have trouble seeing the benefit... scum will double-check if they're really lynched.

The rest of the case is you hedging on the silverspawn case early on, and pushing an Ichi case that feels constructed because by now I have trouble seeing what Ichi did here as scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 10:45:22 am
That doesn't make sense. You saw what Ichi was doing before as scummy.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "pushing".

Why is outing a PR a problem if you were willing to lynch him anyway?  You were voting for him.  As you've said before, when you have a vote on someone you believe they're the best lynch at that time.  If he claimed a PR after thinking he was lynched, a la Sudgy, then we wouldn't lynch him... a lot like what would happen if he claimed a PR when he wasn't yet lynched, except that we'd have much less reason to doubt him.

Ichi was either (1) faking in some way, or (2) believed he was actually lynched.  If (2) then he's going to be upset and more likely to slip something.  Town and Scum tend to react differently to being lynched.  We may be able to deduce what it is based on how he responds.  (1) is not that likely, but either way I'd have to get reactions to judge.

I probably should have said something different, but I didn't know how to say "tell us that you're Town" .. I probably should have gone with something like, "so you're really Town?" or whatever, but I figured everyone else knew he wasn't lynched, so someone would say something pretty quickly.  If he really believed he got lynched, I wanted as much responses as I could get in that window.

Hedging the Silverspawn case I suppose I can accept.. I don't know that I hedged it, but do know that I could still go either way on him, so I can see how that comes off as a hedge.  I keep going back and forth between "probably town" and "maybe he's pulling one over on us".  That's why, as I said in some previous post, I'm choosing to dismiss the claim as WIFOM.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 01, 2014, 08:27:14 pm
vote: Ichi
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 01, 2014, 08:28:42 pm
vote: Ichi
I believe that's hammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 01, 2014, 08:51:10 pm
Not again! Check the vote count. You're at L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 01, 2014, 08:51:34 pm
I could hammer you if you want. :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2014, 08:52:15 pm
Not again! Check the vote count. You're at L-1.

This is where you let him believe he's been lynched and ask him to confess.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 01, 2014, 08:58:02 pm
Spoilsport.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 01, 2014, 09:08:52 pm
Who unvoted me then?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 09:11:37 pm
Think he might be at L-2 actually.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 09:12:02 pm
That was cute from ADK though. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 01, 2014, 09:36:09 pm
I was already voting for you, and voted again to see what would happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 01, 2014, 10:07:20 pm
Ohmahgurd so scummy.

But also XP had changed to Eevee.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 01, 2014, 10:32:26 pm
Oh did he? Well someone else should vote for Ichi so he's back at L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start
Post by: mail-mi on October 01, 2014, 11:54:39 pm
Vote Count 1.6

Ichimaru (4): ADK, joth, Jimmmmm, silverspawn,
Witherweaver (2): faust, Hydrad
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (2): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee
 
Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day1 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day1 will be Friday, October 3 at 7 pm forum time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 01, 2014, 11:57:02 pm
NOTE: It would be really nice if everyone sent me a copy of their PMs (in a PM, of course), as I did not get CC'd when yuma sent them out.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 02, 2014, 12:12:02 am
We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.


I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).

That's all for now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 02, 2014, 06:49:41 am
everyone on the Ichi wagon: Please explain what Ichi did to appear scummy, and how it fis a scum narrative. All the cases I've seen so far boil down to "well, he wasn't super townie, so let's lynch him".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 02, 2014, 06:50:02 am
Can't believe I'm actually defending Ichi :D
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 08:24:11 am
We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.


I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).

That's all for now.

Instead, let's think hard about the implications of the fact that, despite you having been the number one suspect all day, it seems damn near impossible to actually push your lynch through. Who does that happen to, scum or town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 08:25:14 am
everyone on the Ichi wagon: Please explain what Ichi did to appear scummy, and how it fis a scum narrative. All the cases I've seen so far boil down to "well, he wasn't super townie, so let's lynch him".

it's a vibe I've gotten from his posts and reactions to votes on him consistently, all day. It's possible I just don't know his town meta well enough, but he has and continues to read very scummy to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 02, 2014, 10:06:01 am
Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 02, 2014, 10:18:09 am
We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.


I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).

That's all for now.

Instead, let's think hard about the implications of the fact that, despite you having been the number one suspect all day, it seems damn near impossible to actually push your lynch through. Who does that happen to, scum or town?
This feels dishonest. He was damn near lynched twice already, and the first time happened in a super rapid fashion.

The deadline, it's pretty close. Time to have your vote where it matters, people!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2014, 10:20:23 am
Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP

Speaking of people who are doing a lot of vote swapping, I'm starting to find Hydrad pretty scummy here.

To answer faust, if I remember it started when Ichi gave a very hedgy response to silverspawn's claim, and then when he was almost lynched had what I viewed as a scummy reaction.

PPE: I like my vote where it is.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 11:13:21 am
vote: XP

A strong case.

L-2
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 02, 2014, 11:15:04 am
vote: XP

A strong case.

L-2

Which case?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 11:19:46 am
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

faust, you seem to be extremely aggressive on other players votes. is this part of your meta?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 11:22:27 am
Quote
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.

and you have said a similar thing yourself.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 02, 2014, 11:57:50 am
Quote
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.

and you have said a similar thing yourself.

Yes - I wanted to know what parts of these cases you agree with. And I guess I'm not generally aggressive (people said I was bossy in Dice mafia though), but I'm getting frustrated when people don't care to provide reasons for what they do themselves and you have to ask them for everything.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 12:04:45 pm
In James Bond mafia, XP was much more talkative, and although he switched his votes around a lot, he played very differently. He was making cases himself, and he was calling out others for what he thought was weird play. He also complained when people did things he didn't agree with.

Here, we have nothing of that. He is just semi-lurking, jumping on opportune wagons, and not doing much in general.

and these

Hmmm. That sounds really towny.  unvote

Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG

he unvotes and then immediately revotes for IG. that almost looks like he switched up his fabricated reads or something and got confused. it doesn't look like a town perspective.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 12:07:33 pm
alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 12:08:38 pm
alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.

last words time?

how about - yknow - a claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 02, 2014, 12:09:50 pm
In James Bond mafia, XP was much more talkative, and although he switched his votes around a lot, he played very differently. He was making cases himself, and he was calling out others for what he thought was weird play. He also complained when people did things he didn't agree with.

Here, we have nothing of that. He is just semi-lurking, jumping on opportune wagons, and not doing much in general.

and these

Hmmm. That sounds really towny.  unvote

Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG

he unvotes and then immediately revotes for IG. that almost looks like he switched up his fabricated reads or something and got confused. it doesn't look like a town perspective.

I don't get the last point.  And if he was fabricating reads and got switched up, why wouldn't he just stick with the last one and play like he changed his mind?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 02, 2014, 12:16:51 pm
I'm here to hammer, but of course want to give XP a chance to claim. This is a large part based on reads, but also survival-voting to prevent me being mislynched today.

I see people switching to him a little too quickly as well, but at least there's some real material for the case. I see joth's voting patterns and posts as very scummy, but they also make sense from his point of view of really hating D1 and wanting it over ASAP. So is this part of his meta that I somehow missed in my previous games (game?) with him?

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 02, 2014, 12:17:17 pm
I'm here to hammer, but of course want to give XP a chance to claim. This is a large part based on reads, but also survival-voting to prevent me being mislynched today.

I see people switching to him a little too quickly as well, but at least there's some real material for the case. I see joth's voting patterns and posts as very scummy, but they also make sense from his point of view of really hating D1 and wanting it over ASAP. So is this part of his meta that I somehow missed in my previous games (game?) with him?
Nevermind, forgot I was already voting.  :-[
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 12:19:12 pm
Quote
I don't get the last point.  And if he was fabricating reads and got switched up, why wouldn't he just stick with the last one and play like he changed his mind?

well, that would have been the better play. but it's possible that he just screwed up. it seems more plausible than town changing his mind in the spawn of a few seconds.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 12:22:49 pm
I'm not entirely convinced that we should force a claim and hammer unless it's a strong PR. I still like IG almost as much, and a little bit more after his last post.

If someone intends to hammer, that's fine and I won't back up. But do not hammer before XP gets to defend himself.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2014, 01:31:06 pm
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 01:34:28 pm
Unvote
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 01:34:50 pm
I don't support hammering someone before they get a chance to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 02, 2014, 01:39:18 pm
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.

Intruiging how?  How does it indicate to you that he's scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 02, 2014, 02:29:26 pm
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.
wtf?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2014, 04:30:09 pm
vote: joth

I'm not saying I'm going to vote before he gets a chance to defend himself but I am saying if he doesn't convince me otherwise, I'll vote for him. And it's very interesting that XP got a wagon on him but then people freaked out when I stated intent to hammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 02, 2014, 04:36:09 pm
Lots of things seem to be "interesting" and "intriguing" :P
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 02, 2014, 04:53:13 pm
Lots of things seem to be "interesting" and "intriguing" :P
This day is just plain weird.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 05:03:26 pm
vote: joth

I'm not saying I'm going to vote before he gets a chance to defend himself but I am saying if he doesn't convince me otherwise, I'll vote for him. And it's very interesting that XP got a wagon on him but then people freaked out when I stated intent to hammer.

To me "intent to hammer" means "I am about to hammer in a few minutes/in my next post"

How were you using it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 05:03:57 pm
Maybe we're on the same page and I just misinterpreted your post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 02, 2014, 05:24:51 pm
I understood it as "Intent to hammer, time to claim XP". You don't announce your intent if you're essentially quickhammering without waiting for a defense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 02, 2014, 05:32:36 pm
well fine guys vote: XP
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2014, 05:56:44 pm
I intended it as "I am going to vote XP if his claim/defense isn't to my liking". Anything else is ridiculous. And with joth voting again, the intent still stands.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 02, 2014, 06:06:00 pm
I'd like to know what XP thinks.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 02, 2014, 09:00:16 pm
No setup to save me this time - I'm a VT. First time mislynched at non-lylo.

Look at Faust/IG as a possible scum team. Look at Eevee for getting my wagon started. Everyone else is completely null to me. Sorry I haven't been much use.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 02, 2014, 09:01:06 pm
At least this way I can play well in guilds once it starts. Good luck!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2014, 09:08:00 pm
Yeah, I'm okay with this.

vote: xp
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 02, 2014, 09:41:00 pm
Told the truth. I'm a VT. Anything you want me to give my opinions on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 03, 2014, 01:45:46 am
Quote
To me "intent to hammer" means "I am about to hammer in a few minutes/in my next post"

to me too. if you didn't mean it that way, it's fine.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 03, 2014, 05:44:33 am
So...flip?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 03, 2014, 08:08:03 am
I'm a VT. I'd tell you if I wasn't - I've done it before.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 03, 2014, 08:09:48 am
I think it was because I hadn't forwarded him my PM yet. Nobody cares anything about my reads? :(
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 03, 2014, 08:35:14 am
I think it was because I hadn't forwarded him my PM yet. Nobody cares anything about my reads? :(
They seem very omgus-like to me, but of course we all do. I understood you posted them already though, and it's not like you need to ask us to ask for them if you have more. Help help us!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 03, 2014, 09:46:35 am
Wait XP was lynched?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 03, 2014, 10:29:50 am
Yes.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 03, 2014, 11:50:50 am
I think IG and Faust are the same alignment (I think scum, but not sure)

ADK, why wasn't my claim to your liking? I just recently narrowly escaped being lynched by claiming doctor, so wouldn't I try that or something similar as scum?

Lots of people are staying in the background, not giving many reasons, similar to what IG was talking about. Look at them.

Personally, I think IG would be a really informative lynch either way.

Anyway, I just realized why my reads aren't worth much - because the importance of looking at reads is in finding out if the person making them is scum or not, and that doesn't matter for me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2014, 12:04:56 pm
People have been surviving with VT claims a lot lately, scum has to try it eventually. Do you think there was any scum off of your wagon?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: XerxesPraelor on October 03, 2014, 01:00:43 pm
Probably, simply due to probability. I didn't get the sense my wagon was particularly scum or town driven.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 03, 2014, 03:39:37 pm
Twilight for now, flip when I get home.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 03, 2014, 03:42:54 pm
make sure he flips scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 03, 2014, 07:39:49 pm
Sorry, no flavor. I haven't read the books so :-\

Vote Count 1.FINAL

Ichimaru (1): Jimmmmm,
Witherweaver (1): faust,
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADK
 
Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.

XerxesPraelor has been lynched! He was Mayor Jahns, a Vanilla Townie!

Night 1 ends at 7:30 PM forum time on Sunday, October 5. Please have night actions in at least a half hour before that. All players who don't have a power must still send a check-in PM.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 05, 2014, 07:25:30 pm
A Drowned Kernel has died! He was Allison Holston, a Vanilla Townie!

Day 2 start!
Thread unlocked!


Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, faust, Witherweaver, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 05, 2014, 07:26:40 pm
First!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 05, 2014, 07:26:48 pm
Good night for us.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 05, 2014, 07:29:49 pm
I'm here!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 05, 2014, 07:32:11 pm
And we're back.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 05, 2014, 08:36:02 pm
Still alive!

(Anyone watch The Croods?)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 05, 2014, 08:56:13 pm
Still alive!

(Anyone watch The Croods?)
Yep. I've seen it.  :D

Good night for us.
Is this because we only lost a VT?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 05, 2014, 09:01:57 pm
Still alive!

(Anyone watch The Croods?)
Yep. I've seen it.  :D

Good night for us.
Is this because we only lost a VT?
Well, yeah, I'm not especially happy it was ADK. :) Although it is an interesting kill, I remember being firmly null on him and I think some other people suspected him quite a bit. Not a kill you'd expect?

It was also good that there was only one kill. Lessens the likelihood of a serial killer quite significantly.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 05, 2014, 09:09:26 pm
Still alive!

(Anyone watch The Croods?)
Yep. I've seen it.  :D

Good night for us.
Is this because we only lost a VT?
Well, yeah, I'm not especially happy it was ADK. :) Although it is an interesting kill, I remember being firmly null on him and I think some other people suspected him quite a bit. Not a kill you'd expect?

It was also good that there was only one kill. Lessens the likelihood of a serial killer quite significantly.
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 05, 2014, 09:14:07 pm
On wagon NK could mean more scum off.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 05, 2014, 09:30:11 pm
I reread ADK to see. The closest thing to a reads list from him:

 
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.

So I guess, out of those players:

ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.

I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.
Other than that, his vote sitting on IG almost all day, until at the very end he started preferring the XP case, first asking him to claim and then hammering him almost immediately following the claim.


I don't find anything in his reads implicates anyone, other than IG but many people suspected him, so naturally that's bound to happen often. I also didn't spot a pr-slip, but it's not like I would.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 02:32:13 am
with 2 VT flips, we still know nothing very little about the setup. Well, maybe we can assume no SK, but even that's not certain.

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune

Not much to go on.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 02:37:34 am
As far as this goes

Ichimaru (1): Jimmmmm,
Witherweaver (1): faust,
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (6): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADK

I'm not very experienced in wagon analysis, but it seems to be that the wagon was moving pretty fast near the end. IG has only one vote, even though he was the main target for pretty long. This could mean scum!IG and his buddies were pushing the lynch to XP instead.

I'll have to reread when exactly each one of them joined the wagon.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 03:05:00 am
So the order was IG -> Eevee -------> Hydrad -> silverspawn -> joth -> ADK (as you can see in the vote's post, the -'s are an indicator for the space in between)

I'm Town. ADK is Town. That leaves joth and Hydrad. I'm not sure about joth, also because switching wagons here is going to make him look really bad if IG flips scum. He switched really late. scum!joth has been quite careful about these kinds of things in James Bond Mafia from what I can tell.

So, Hydrad. Hydrad has switched wagons with this quote:

Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP

I'll also say that I have done a complete reread on Hydrad Zelda mafia. A bunch of things stood out, the average length of his posts was very low, he wrote a big panic defense for a null case early, and overall he's had very little content. A few other things too. Expecting him to flip scum there, I was ready for a big townread here, because he's played quite differently. More long posts (still not many though). Less blending in. More content. In a vacuum, his play here looks townier to me, but it's suspicious that it's so different. And with him flipping town in Zelda, that makes him look scummy here. Of course, he's also relatively new, so it could just be a normal change of his game without a change of his alignment.

Still, I'm leaning on either Hydrad or IG for now. With the suspicion IG got, he can just use self-preservation as an excuse. He did vote for XP when he was at L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 03:06:07 am
*in Zelda Mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 04:12:31 am
If a mod - I mean, a real mod (sorry, mail-mi) could take care of the name of this thread, I would be grateful.

Also, the wagon, hm. I think lots of people on it are on the townier side (Eevee, Ichi, silver). So that means that either scum avoided the wagon (possible, but not likely), there's scum among joth/Hydrad, or my reads are very off. The ADK kill makes it slightly less likely that the wagon was full of scum, but you know, WIFOM.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 04:16:22 am
So the order was IG -> Eevee -------> Hydrad -> silverspawn -> joth -> ADK (as you can see in the vote's post, the -'s are an indicator for the space in between)

I'm Town. ADK is Town. That leaves joth and Hydrad. I'm not sure about joth, also because switching wagons here is going to make him look really bad if IG flips scum. He switched really late. scum!joth has been quite careful about these kinds of things in James Bond Mafia from what I can tell.

So, Hydrad. Hydrad has switched wagons with this quote:

Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP

I'll also say that I have done a complete reread on Hydrad Zelda mafia. A bunch of things stood out, the average length of his posts was very low, he wrote a big panic defense for a null case early, and overall he's had very little content. A few other things too. Expecting him to flip scum there, I was ready for a big townread here, because he's played quite differently. More long posts (still not many though). Less blending in. More content. In a vacuum, his play here looks townier to me, but it's suspicious that it's so different. And with him flipping town in Zelda, that makes him look scummy here. Of course, he's also relatively new, so it could just be a normal change of his game without a change of his alignment.

Still, I'm leaning on either Hydrad or IG for now. With the suspicion IG got, he can just use self-preservation as an excuse. He did vote for XP when he was at L-1.

I don't think you should exclude IG and Eevee from your analysis just because they voted earlier. They didn't move their votes and thus helped lynching Xerxes just as much as the rest on wagon.

What you're saying about Hydrad is also very interesting; I don't find him much different from the last game I played with him (Dice mafia; he was town there). I don't really see the "long" posts, and did have the impression that he was blending in.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 04:21:11 am
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.

Well, you don't need to be surprised that many people suspect you if you're behaving like this; making up excuses for not being nightkilled is a big scum tell for me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 06, 2014, 06:06:49 am
Fixed.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 06, 2014, 06:07:50 am
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.

Well, you don't need to be surprised that many people suspect you if you're behaving like this; making up excuses for not being nightkilled is a big scum tell for me.

I agree with the making up excuses for surviving thing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:27:49 am
I know that town's dying reads aren't really likely to be more accurate than anyone else's, but I think we should do XP the honor of really scrutinizing faust.

I STILL think IG is probably scum.

Question for everyone. What percent sure are we that there's no serial killer at this point? (I am asking for a reason.)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 09:31:34 am
Quote
Question for everyone. What percent sure are we that there's no serial killer at this point? (I am asking for a reason.)

I think this question is dangerous. If people answer it honestly, they might semi claim JK or something. I'm not familiar with this role, but it seems to be that it is pretty strong for preventing kills, as both targeting the killer and the victim will do the job.

I already claimed VT, so I can answer at least. I'd say between 80 and 90%
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 09:33:32 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.

Traitor has Roleblock, too.  So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible.  (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:38:52 am
Quote
Question for everyone. What percent sure are we that there's no serial killer at this point? (I am asking for a reason.)

I think this question is dangerous. If people answer it honestly, they might semi claim JK or something. I'm not familiar with this role, but it seems to be that it is pretty strong for preventing kills, as both targeting the killer and the victim will do the job.

I already claimed VT, so I can answer at least. I'd say between 80 and 90%

Ok, restate. NOT TAKING YOUR OWN ROLE INTO ACCOUNT, how sure are you?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 09:45:12 am
purely mathematically speaking, if there is a SK, he can be one of 9 players. if there is a JK, he has 8 possible targets, 4 of them would prevent a kill. wow, that's 50%.

so, the possibilities are:

no SK = 5/8
SK and no JK = 1/8
SK and JK 2/8
 -> and JK prevented the kill 1/8
-> and JK didn't prevent the kill 1/8

that's assuminr random choices from everyone, and ignoring the possibilities of a no-kill or a double-target.

and we get 1/8 chance
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 10:02:17 am
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 10:27:38 am
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver

Want to share?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 10:34:49 am
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver

Want to share?

I do! But it's not the right thing for town if I do. When I have some time (i.e. when I'm not at work) I'm going to re-read day 1 and see if anything jumps out.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 10:41:52 am
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 10:42:53 am
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.

why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 10:45:13 am
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.

why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?

Got sick of winning, trying the losing thing on for size.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 10:45:54 am
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.

why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?

Got sick of winning, trying the losing thing on for size.

You're trying too hard. Just tell us that you're scum and who your partners are, and we'll make sure you lose.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 10:48:46 am
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.

why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?

Got sick of winning, trying the losing thing on for size.

You're trying too hard. Just tell us that you're scum and who your partners are, and we'll make sure you lose.

Me, Ichi, Silverspawn.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 10:56:21 am
Cool. vote: Witherweaver
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 11:00:25 am
Cool. vote: Witherweaver

Nooooo vote my partners first
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 11:04:30 am
Cool. vote: Witherweaver

Nooooo vote my partners first

nah you're the one who keeps trying to out PRs. Plus Ichi's like impossible to lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 11:07:25 am
Cool. vote: Witherweaver

Nooooo vote my partners first

nah you're the one who keeps trying to out PRs. Plus Ichi's like impossible to lynch.

"keeps trying to"

If you think we're at risk of Ichi of being a PR, why do you still want to lynch him?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 11:08:41 am
I'm not scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 11:45:42 am
Vote: Witherweaver

That all reads fake to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 11:46:46 am
Fake how? 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 11:48:10 am
Fake how?

Fake in a forced-jokey way.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 11:50:08 am
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 11:57:33 am
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?
[/quote

What exactly is the purpose of this question?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 11:58:29 am
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?

Again, correctly: What exactly is the purpose of this question?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 12:05:52 pm
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?

Again, correctly: What exactly is the purpose of this question?

What exactly is the purpose of this question?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 12:23:27 pm
I thought WW was pretty funny.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 12:32:00 pm
So I've lost my zeal for Eevee, and in retrospect am thinking he's more town.  I can't really tell if Faust is mistaken or trying to push a mislynch.  Ichi I always think is scum no matter what, so I have to curb all my gut reads against him. 

I think I want to lynch someone in the background.  I don't really have scum reads on the people actually doing stuff.

Vote: Jimmmm
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 12:42:53 pm
Vote: Jimmm I'm conditioning people to drop their scum reads on me.

No, but seriously WW, I spearheaded a town lynch, and that made you change your mind? Curious.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 12:53:13 pm
Vote: Jimmm I'm conditioning people to drop their scum reads on me.

No, but seriously WW, I spearheaded a town lynch, and that made you change your mind? Curious.

No, I was just thinking back to how you seemed, and it kind of felt more like other times you've been town.  This post was the one that popped into my mind.. no good explanation why, just a kind of gut thing:

Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon").  So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.

If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town.   The other direction doesn't apply though.
Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.

Why do you think I'm scum? We've usually done excellent at identifying each other as town, so it feels weird to be at odds with you.

I could be wrong and it could just be like that you seem to me like you regularly are, independent of your alignment. 

Plus a bit of logic.. why drop a scum read on mere here if you're scum?  Maybe to look more like a town player.. but generally scum would want to not go back and forth so much and stay in the middle more.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 12:59:55 pm
Just checking in. Been super busy with school and such. I have yet to reread D1 but should be able to do it soon. I agree that Jimmmmm's lurking here looks somewhat scummy. In particular, I don't recall him weighing in on any of the important issues of D1. I feel like there's more of a lurker meta in general lately, where more and more people seem to be low activity and not necessarily get heat for it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 01:02:09 pm
To be fair to Jimmm, it is known he is legitimately busy right now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 01:03:58 pm
To be fair to Jimmm, it is known he is legitimately busy right now.
Ok thanks. That does make a difference in my read on him. Do you know if he was similarly busy for most of D1?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 01:11:23 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 01:15:28 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.

What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 06, 2014, 01:16:56 pm
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 02:32:20 pm
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 02:32:39 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.

So, who on XP's wagon was scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 02:34:00 pm
Actually, I keep on forgetting that Hydrad is even in the game.

Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 02:43:48 pm
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Actually,

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 03:14:47 pm
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Actually,

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.

Vote: faust

I really don't know where most of your reads are. I know you think WW is scummy but where do you stand on others?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 03:21:54 pm
Man it's cool how I vote for someone then in the next post someone votes for the same person.  I am going to use this power to cause all sorts of havoks.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 03:25:25 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.

So, who on XP's wagon was scum?

Well first off, I never said anyone was. There are lots of ways to be involved in a lynch without being on the wagon.

That said, the wagon, minus myself and ADK, is Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn. I have a town read on silver. Eevee could easily be scum. Ichimaru is still a top scum read for me. Hydrad I'm null on, but a lot of people seem to find him scummy so also possible.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 03:26:41 pm
Man it's cool how I vote for someone then in the next post someone votes for the same person.  I am going to use this power to cause all sorts of havoks.

nope when you voted for me it didn't work. Your power is terrible.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 03:27:30 pm
Who was involved in XP's lynch yesterday that was not on the wagon, and is scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 03:28:14 pm
Man it's cool how I vote for someone then in the next post someone votes for the same person.  I am going to use this power to cause all sorts of havoks.

nope when you voted for me it didn't work. Your power is terrible.


Well, I was the next poster.  I didn't give my own powers time.

OR MAYBE YOUR SCUMBUDDIES DIDN'T WANT TO VOTE FOR YOU.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 03:47:37 pm
vote: Hydrad

the previous case was not bad, but this last vote was completely unreasonable. this is scum!hydrad trying to imitate confident!town!Hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 06, 2014, 03:58:45 pm
Let us not do faust. He really is not blending in anymore, he has been quite aggressive. I know that was part of the case, but it's more OMGUS, as this kind of play may be annoying, but I don't think it's very scummy. I like Hydrad or IG here. It's entirely possible that they are even a scum team.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 03:59:51 pm
Was he ever blending in before?  I don't think so. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 04:54:29 pm
A brief history of the XP wagon
by joth

This is, I think, the first mention of XP as even a possible lynch candidate, pretty late in the day, IG is currently the vote leader but only has like 2 votes on him, and a wagon has just started to form on Eevee (with XP as one of the Eevee voters):

I agree with your points ADK. Though I don't think XP has gotten much suspicion either from what I remember.
Neither he nor Jimmmmm were around for my wagon though.

Still don't get much of the votes on Eevee. And not sure what to make of silver here either. Blah, I feel like something else has to happen to get this game rolling again. Some town points go to everyone that's at least around and posting a fair amount I guess.

then, sometime later, XP says "can we just lynch someone already" and silverspawn posts:

I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.

I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.

then silver and XP put IG to L1. IG makes the first vote for XP, out of desperation:

Just woke up. I am at L-1

Wow, guess I'll be derphammered twice this game.
I've said what I've said in my defense. If that hasn't convinced you or the multiple insane ramp ups of my wagon, I don't know.

I still don't like WW trying to force a claim out of me under false pretenses--no matter how he tries to defend it. So vote: WW
I will repeat that I stand by my decision to not claim. I really can't believe the lazy votes on me, and all I ask is that people look at the poor votes on me.

PPE: vote: XP

XP unvotes IG and then revotes him in the next post. Then Eevee joins the wagon and legitimizes it with a "real case"

Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

I question Eevee's case on XP, saying it seems like very clumsy scum play. There's a lot more conversation. The day stalls again. Ichi makes a sly dig at XP:

I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.
These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good idea
-WW defending him pushing me to claim even though I wasn't hammered
-No one really picking up on XP's hugely scummy behavior: lurking, sheeping votes, joining easy wagons and pushing them, not being around for important events like silver's claim--and not really commenting on them.
-People finding you (Eevee) scummy for reasons that make no sense to me
-Everyone just accepting silver's claim

I don't know, most of that behavior that I list makes very little sense to me, and I feel like scum is just getting away with blatantly sheeping my wagon and trying to mislynch me for the second time today.
So people can just claim VT right away and get virtually no pressure, that must be great. I understand that I distracted from it, but silver's  claim is still a very important event of this day that people seem to be ignoring.

and then silver:

The XP case is looking strong. I have to reread him in James Bond Mafia, but right now I think he's almost as good as IG.

One of these two should be our lynch.

Witherweaver throws his support (but not his vote) behind the lynch. Oh boy I was hoping to find something like that.

XP always feels like town!XP to me.

Ichi and Hydrad always feel like scum to me.

The things XP always gets called out for are traits he always displays as town, so I tend to always see him that way. I don't have much of a gut town instinct on him here.. more, like I think, "would he talk about how suspicious or scummy he is as scum?"

I wouldn't oppose XP. The only player I have a real town read on is Joth.

faust posts a reads list. relevant excerpt:

xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.

So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.

I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.

Ichi gets to L1 AGAIN. Hydrad jumps lamely onto the XP wagon:

Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP

Silver jumps on officially:

vote: XP

A strong case.

L-2

I vote for XP. I know it's scummy to say this, but I regret this vote. We were nearing deadline and Ichi was really repeatedly refusing to happen.

alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.

ADK declares intent to hammer

I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.

I unvote, because of a confusion of what "intent to hammer" means. I revote upon clearing up the confusion.  XP claims VT, ADK quickhammers, and that's all she wrote. Thoughts to come in next post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 04:54:59 pm
vote: Hydrad

the previous case was not bad, but this last vote was completely unreasonable. this is scum!hydrad trying to imitate confident!town!Hydrad.

Basically I just think faust has been making conversation by questioning others votes but not really said much on who he thinks is scum or not. I think its a easy way for scum to not get caught in defending the wrong people or not.

PPE:1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 04:55:52 pm

A brief history of the XP wagon (with the quote tag fixed)
by joth

This is, I think, the first mention of XP as even a possible lynch candidate, pretty late in the day, IG is currently the vote leader but only has like 2 votes on him, and a wagon has just started to form on Eevee (with XP as one of the Eevee voters):

I agree with your points ADK. Though I don't think XP has gotten much suspicion either from what I remember.
Neither he nor Jimmmmm were around for my wagon though.

Still don't get much of the votes on Eevee. And not sure what to make of silver here either. Blah, I feel like something else has to happen to get this game rolling again. Some town points go to everyone that's at least around and posting a fair amount I guess.

then, sometime later, XP says "can we just lynch someone already" and silverspawn posts:

I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.

I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.

then silver and XP put IG to L1. IG makes the first vote for XP, out of desperation:

Just woke up. I am at L-1

Wow, guess I'll be derphammered twice this game.
I've said what I've said in my defense. If that hasn't convinced you or the multiple insane ramp ups of my wagon, I don't know.

I still don't like WW trying to force a claim out of me under false pretenses--no matter how he tries to defend it. So vote: WW
I will repeat that I stand by my decision to not claim. I really can't believe the lazy votes on me, and all I ask is that people look at the poor votes on me.

PPE: vote: XP

XP unvotes IG and then revotes him in the next post. Then Eevee joins the wagon and legitimizes it with a "real case"

Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.

I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.

I question Eevee's case on XP, saying it seems like very clumsy scum play. There's a lot more conversation. The day stalls again. Ichi makes a sly dig at XP:

I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.
These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good idea
-WW defending him pushing me to claim even though I wasn't hammered
-No one really picking up on XP's hugely scummy behavior: lurking, sheeping votes, joining easy wagons and pushing them, not being around for important events like silver's claim--and not really commenting on them.
-People finding you (Eevee) scummy for reasons that make no sense to me
-Everyone just accepting silver's claim

I don't know, most of that behavior that I list makes very little sense to me, and I feel like scum is just getting away with blatantly sheeping my wagon and trying to mislynch me for the second time today.
So people can just claim VT right away and get virtually no pressure, that must be great. I understand that I distracted from it, but silver's  claim is still a very important event of this day that people seem to be ignoring.

and then silver:

The XP case is looking strong. I have to reread him in James Bond Mafia, but right now I think he's almost as good as IG.

One of these two should be our lynch.

Witherweaver throws his support (but not his vote) behind the lynch. Oh boy I was hoping to find something like that.

XP always feels like town!XP to me.

Ichi and Hydrad always feel like scum to me.

The things XP always gets called out for are traits he always displays as town, so I tend to always see him that way. I don't have much of a gut town instinct on him here.. more, like I think, "would he talk about how suspicious or scummy he is as scum?"

I wouldn't oppose XP. The only player I have a real town read on is Joth.

faust posts a reads list. relevant excerpt:

xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.

So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.

I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.

Ichi gets to L1 AGAIN. Hydrad jumps lamely onto the XP wagon:

Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.

Vote: XP

Silver jumps on officially:

vote: XP

A strong case.

L-2

I vote for XP. I know it's scummy to say this, but I regret this vote. We were nearing deadline and Ichi was really repeatedly refusing to happen.

alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.

ADK declares intent to hammer

I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.

I unvote, because of a confusion of what "intent to hammer" means. I revote upon clearing up the confusion.  XP claims VT, ADK quickhammers, and that's all she wrote. Thoughts to come in next post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 04:57:39 pm
So, here's my most likely interpretation of events: Eevee and IG are on the scum team. They began, and pushed along, the XP wagon because the town was stalling repeatedly and IG looked like the default lynch. Does scum normally want to be driving the wagon? No. Will they do it if the alternative is losing a team member day 1? Absolutely.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 04:58:34 pm
wait did I completely miss faust posting reply 556? I didn't remember him posting reads at all. I'm going to reread faust right now because I'm confused.

Thanks joth for posting that though
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 04:58:54 pm
I do find WW a little scummy, but the preponderance of evidence here is IG and Eevee, to my eye. so vote: IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 04:59:39 pm
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:05:58 pm
Claiming I won't oppose a lynch is not the same as supporting it.  I guess you can argue they kind of are, but I was saying there that I didn't see myself making some big argument that XP is town.  In most games I've played with XP I've argued for his towniness, and I didn't have a big feeling towards it here, probably because he was fairly absent. 

Well, in retrospect, I should have argued the lynch,  but I didn't have enough confidence.  (Though you'll note I was trying to argue towards other targets late in the day.)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:07:02 pm
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.

Yes, and that reminds me:

Eevee, since you're the proponent of "If you're left alive start questioning your reads," what do you think about the ADK kill?  Do you think it was reads-based?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:07:17 pm
Bolding fail.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:07:26 pm
WW, you actually do come out of my reread looking pretty towny. I got excited about the part I put in bold, but big picture-wise, you sure don't come off looking like the mastermind behind the lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:07:49 pm
To be fair to Jimmm, it is known he is legitimately busy right now.
Ok thanks. That does make a difference in my read on him. Do you know if he was similarly busy for most of D1?
Yeah. It's my understanding it's been a busy fall for him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:08:22 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:08:39 pm
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:10:28 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?

Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.

You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:11:39 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?

Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.

You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.

Doesn't that seem a bit circular?

Or are you saying Eevee was the pusher?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:12:50 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?

Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.

You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
When I started pushing XP, he was super-lurking and slipping onto any growing wagon with sheepish reasons. I disagree he wasn't scummy.

Now, the VT claim would have given me pause, but ADK made a judgement call and was wrong, so that's that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:14:14 pm
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.

Yes, and that reminds me:

Eevee, since you're the proponent of "If you're left alive start questioning your reads," what do you think about the ADK kill?  Do you think it was reads-based?
Well, I reread ADK, and he didn't have any strong reads. He suspected IG, along with half the town. So, as far as I can tell he wasn't killed because his reads were spot on.. unless IG is scum and they wanted to hit someone behind that case, of course. Everything does seem to point eerily at IG.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 05:16:45 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?

Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.

You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.

Doesn't that seem a bit circular?

Or are you saying Eevee was the pusher?
Exactly. "Scum doesn't push a D1 wagon unless they're in danger?".
Well what does town do D1 when they're super close to being mislynched for the umpteenth time that day? You've obviously already eliminated any possibility that I'm town and skewed your reasoning to only support a case that I am scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:18:14 pm
In joth's defense, I think I was the pusher more than you were, urging people to reread XP etc. I do accept responsibility on that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:22:41 pm
Okay, then for clarity on Joth's argument:

"I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum"

Would imply that he sees Eevee as scum (for independent reasons), and Eevee is pushing a wagon on town, so the alternative wagon must be on scum.  Ergo, Ichi is scum as well.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:23:04 pm
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:24:52 pm
Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:26:27 pm
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
This is because you think IG is scum?

Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.

You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.

Doesn't that seem a bit circular?

Or are you saying Eevee was the pusher?

I'm being unclear. Regardless of amy reads on anyone, it seems obvious to me that XP's lynch was not based on some rock solid case. It wasn't even based on a good-enough-for-day-1 case. It was based on a fairly lame case that everyone eventually jumped on because deadline was coming up and we've got to lynch someone. And if my excerpts don't sell you on that, reread it yourself. Yesterday was a terrible day 1 that kept stalling. No one was confident enough in a case to really push for it and make it happen.

That's (normally) great for scum! They can sit around and wait for a panic mislynch or even a no lynch. They might get antsy, but there's no call to step in and draw attention to themselves.

So how did XP manage to get lynched? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. The narrative that makes sense to me is one where IG was scum. He managed to escape his own lynch twice somehow. But he and his teammate knew that if they sat around and did nothing, the town would probably default to IG at deadline. They picked out someone who was a lurker, built a trumped up case, and pushed it through. And lazy townies with no strong reads (yes I'm including myself in this category) went along with it.

Like I said, that's the narrative that makes sense to me. It paints IG and Eevee as the likely scum. If you have another version of what happened, I would love to hear it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:28:40 pm
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?

I don't follow you. But my narrative works with Ichi + someone else as the scum team. It falls apart if Ichi is town. So Ichi is the more solid vote. Plus his flip is extremely informational, given his 2 L1 wagons yesterday.

Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?

Because you pushed the lynch. Not very hard, but harder than anyone else. Also, why do you think IG is town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:29:45 pm
Here's an Eevee quote I omitted for brevity's sake where he's frantically pushing the XP case.

We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.


I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).

That's all for now.

Instead, let's think hard about the implications of the fact that, despite you having been the number one suspect all day, it seems damn near impossible to actually push your lynch through. Who does that happen to, scum or town?
This feels dishonest. He was damn near lynched twice already, and the first time happened in a super rapid fashion.

The deadline, it's pretty close. Time to have your vote where it matters, people!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:30:05 pm
you'll not it also includes a defense of IG.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:31:37 pm
Anyway, now I have to go play Magic. Either you like my case or you don't. I intentionally posted my recap of the wagon and my interpretation of it separately, so if you don't like my answer, please take advantage of the work I did and come to your own conclusions from my summary.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:32:08 pm
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?

I don't follow you. But my narrative works with Ichi + someone else as the scum team. It falls apart if Ichi is town. So Ichi is the more solid vote. Plus his flip is extremely informational, given his 2 L1 wagons yesterday.

Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?

Because you pushed the lynch. Not very hard, but harder than anyone else. Also, why do you think IG is town?

Okay, I was just unclear with what you were deducing from what. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 05:38:10 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:38:32 pm
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?

I don't follow you. But my narrative works with Ichi + someone else as the scum team. It falls apart if Ichi is town. So Ichi is the more solid vote. Plus his flip is extremely informational, given his 2 L1 wagons yesterday.

Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?

Because you pushed the lynch. Not very hard, but harder than anyone else. Also, why do you think IG is town?
So town shouldn't push lynches? Huh?

I don't necessarily think IG is town. I thought XP had a better chance of flipping scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2014, 05:38:53 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
What?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:44:03 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Huh?  Recruiting can only be done randomly in the setup, or when all other Mafia die Traitor inherits the night kill.

At least that's how I understand it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:45:02 pm
Well actually it says that the Traitor and Mafia know who they are.. I don't know if Traitor actually gets to join the QT or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 05:45:51 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Huh?  Recruiting can only be done randomly in the setup, or when all other Mafia die Traitor inherits the night kill.

At least that's how I understand it.
No. The setup does say that if the Mafia NK the Traitor, they will be recruited instead of dying. So I think that's what joth's referring to.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:46:37 pm
Oh hey reading setups is cool:


Quote
Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.

In regards to the discussion before about a single kill implying no SK... SK has possible motivation to not shoot here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:47:34 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Huh?  Recruiting can only be done randomly in the setup, or when all other Mafia die Traitor inherits the night kill.

At least that's how I understand it.
No. The setup does say that if the Mafia NK the Traitor, they will be recruited instead of dying. So I think that's what joth's referring to.

PPE: 1

Ohhhhh... But why would Mafia shoot Ichi?  If they think he's town, leave him around to mislynch.. if they think he's the Traitor, then what's the benefit of the recruit?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:48:53 pm
Oh hey, more reading setup.

Mafia knows Traitor and Traitor knows Mafia are separate entries, and they can't both happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 05:49:48 pm
Quote
Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be
I missed that part. What does it even mean?

PPE: Exactly. I'm pretty sure Ash spoke to this early on saying it would be a poor decision for Mafia to try and recruit that way.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 05:51:40 pm
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 05:59:26 pm
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
So the SK could use the power of any of the possible town PR's in this setup for one night?
That strikes me as very interesting.

Anyway, still finishing my light reread. I should be done soon--joth's posts were really helpful, and I appreciate him doing that. Of course, I come to completely different conclusions especially given I know that I'm not scum, so theories that include that as a component are obviously nonsensical to me. Still, they give us some good info. I'm seeing joth as less scummy and moreso that we just have very different reads this game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 06:11:46 pm
If scum recruits the traitor they gain a roleblocker. Very worth it for them.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 06:15:09 pm
If scum recruits the traitor they gain a roleblocker. Very worth it for them.

But isn't he a role blocker anyways? So all they would gain is the ability to discuss who to roleblock?
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 06, 2014, 06:38:09 pm
Mafia:
2 Mafia + 1 Roleblocking Traitor
Yeah. I'm pretty sure this means the Traitor is a roleblocker regardless of whether they're recruited or not.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 06:53:41 pm
So your theory was that Ichi was so obvscum that Mafia decided to shoot him for the RB power?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 06, 2014, 06:54:54 pm
Traitor is Role blocker, but if he doesn't know Mafia he may block his buddies.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 06, 2014, 07:00:35 pm
Traitor is Role blocker, but if he doesn't know Mafia he may block his buddies.

and roleblock will stop the night kill? That would be interesting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 06, 2014, 07:40:27 pm
Vote Count 2.1

Witherweaver (1): faust
Jimmmmm (1): Eevee
faust (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Ichimaru Gin (1): jotheonah

Not Voting (3): Jimmmmm, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin,

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:01:02 pm
So your theory was that Ichi was so obvscum that Mafia decided to shoot him for the RB power?

Nope, I think we're in the setup where the mafia know the traitor.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 02:33:18 am
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 08:18:03 am
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?

Vote: Silverspawn

But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 08:25:14 am
But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.
I get that, but if he can only use them when he doesn't NK, how is strongman useful. just being unblockable without doing anything that can be blocked is like building a fortress in the desert.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 08:26:56 am
Strongman is part of his JOAT.  He can use it as a kill modifier if he kills.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 08:28:21 am
Quote
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 08:42:39 am
okay.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2014, 09:04:43 am
I would like to hear people who aren't Ichi, Eevee, and Witherweaver weigh in on my big case. I regret bringing up the setup thing a little because it's become a distraction from what I believe to be a really strong case.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 11:51:18 am
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.

How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 11:51:55 am
Vote: faust

I really don't know where most of your reads are. I know you think WW is scummy but where do you stand on others?

And what is the reason for this vote?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 11:54:24 am
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.

Well, scum hunting for other scum is always a possibility.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 11:55:08 am
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.

How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?

I changed my mind. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 11:56:12 am
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.

I'm voting for WW.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 11:58:03 am
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.

That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.

I'm voting for WW.

Pretty sure a no vote would be better!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 11:58:39 am
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:00:55 pm
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?

Vote: Silverspawn

But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.

Are you implying that silver is the SK here?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:02:01 pm
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?

Vote: Silverspawn

But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.

Are you implying that silver is the SK here?

Verily.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:02:22 pm
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.

How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?

I changed my mind.

What were the points that indicated to you that I might be town, then, and why did you change your mind?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:02:30 pm
Not that I really want to lynch SK today, I just wanted to point it out here so I don't forget it later.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:03:00 pm
Where's ashersky when you need him?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:04:20 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:06:13 pm
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:

Scum has to be somewhere.  Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum.  There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.

Vote: Faust

You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.

How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?

I changed my mind.

What were the points that indicated to you that I might be town, then, and why did you change your mind?

I was thinking that you were fairly active trying to figure things out.. your looking into me didn't feel too constructed.  When I thought about it more, "figuring things out" began to look like being critical or asking questions of little pieces of everyone's  post.  That is somewhat your style, I think, but it's fairly easy to do because all you have to do is be reactive.  You can just read something and ask the first question that pops into your head.  So I guess.. more reactive than active.

I should say that these analyses were done within my own memory and not through a reread, so there's some degree of possible error there.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:07:33 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:10:26 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to him that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:11:42 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to him that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

You're right.  No one has ever tried to produce a townslip before.  My bad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 12:11:54 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
I honestly thought he was kidding.

And I didn't realize you were voting for WW, apologies. Can you list your reasons again? I might join.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:12:49 pm
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?

I mean, four questions to ask a question.. it just screams as "trying to look ignorant".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:19:37 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
I honestly thought he was kidding.

And I didn't realize you were voting for WW, apologies. Can you list your reasons again? I might join.

Yeah, maybe it was kidding... I'm not sure.

Anyway, Witherweaver: I found his whole interaction with Ichi on Day 1 very scummy (well, I happen to think that Ichi is town also). First hedgy, then trying to make him reveal his PR. Also multiple instances of SK hunting (there was something on D1 already). Now WW likes to say that scum would do this because they know it's seen as scummy... but it is scummy because town has no reason to do it! Town should approach this day with a mindset of "there is probably no SK, so let's hunt mafia". Not doing that is anti-town and scummy. And while other players were suspected for the exact same things WW is doing, he never got much suspicion. Plus, my gut says WW's posts are disingenuous, but it's hard to put that in a proper argument.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:20:07 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to him that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

You're right.  No one has ever tried to produce a townslip before.  My bad.

It's also only his third (?) game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:21:36 pm
It's also only his third (?) game.

I would love to respond to this, but you know, ongoing game stuff.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:25:23 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
I honestly thought he was kidding.

And I didn't realize you were voting for WW, apologies. Can you list your reasons again? I might join.

Yeah, maybe it was kidding... I'm not sure.

Anyway, Witherweaver: I found his whole interaction with Ichi on Day 1 very scummy (well, I happen to think that Ichi is town also). First hedgy, then trying to make him reveal his PR. Also multiple instances of SK hunting (there was something on D1 already). Now WW likes to say that scum would do this because they know it's seen as scummy... but it is scummy because town has no reason to do it! Town should approach this day with a mindset of "there is probably no SK, so let's hunt mafia". Not doing that is anti-town and scummy. And while other players were suspected for the exact same things WW is doing, he never got much suspicion. Plus, my gut says WW's posts are disingenuous, but it's hard to put that in a proper argument.

Silverspawn made a post that indicated he was an SK.  I had the option to let it go and come back to it later if we got to that point, at which point I can't guarantee I'd remember it, or bring it up now so that I'd make sure to remember it.  I chose the latter. 

PPE: Okay, but my point is he's a new player. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2014, 12:27:07 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.

I disagree. What exactly is the simplest explanation for last night's one kill being a VT who would have looked very towny coming into today? There is no simple explanation. But this complex one fits all the facts of yesterday perfectly.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 12:29:19 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.

The reason I respond to this is because I think it makes you scummy.

Firstly I have zero reason to fake a non-SK slip. I'm not a big suspect, and even if people believe me that I'm not an SK, I can still be mafia. what? Why should I see the need to do something like that. There is zero WIFOM.

Secondly, I showed you the post that was - and still is (!) - confusing me. I'll show you again. Here:

They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.

I thought I knew how the SK works. This post is the only problem. You said they can't use PR's if they kill. But strongman is a PR that doesn't make sense if you don't use it while you're attempting a kill. So, you were doing the post that confused me, and then you were voting for me based on the fact that your post was confusing.

This really makes me want to vote for you, because I just can't believe a town player would be serious with this case. But I also really want to do IG. The thing is that the IG case has all sorts of history with day1 and reason based on wagons, and there is the joth case, where as your case is more or less out of nowhere, I didn't find you scummy day1. Right now, I feel like voting for you could be a trap. Even though you're really trying hard to look scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:29:31 pm
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.

Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself.  Of course, he kind of already implied this:

WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:31:04 pm
Man, two posts earlier I posted the relevant setup quote:

Oh hey reading setups is cool:


Quote
Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.

In regards to the discussion before about a single kill implying no SK... SK has possible motivation to not shoot here.

I thought it would be pretty contextually clear what I meant.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 12:35:45 pm
that's just a quote from the setup. I vaguely recall that it was confusing the first time I read it too.

so, does it mean the town roles are from the list of PR's that are possible to be included for town, and is not related to the JOAT? if so, all you had to do is write that, instead of starting this insane faking no SK case.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:38:58 pm
that's just a quote from the setup. I vaguely recall that it was confusing the first time I read it too.

so, does it mean the town roles are from the list of PR's that are possible to be included for town, and is not related to the JOAT? if so, all you had to do is write that, instead of starting this insane faking no SK case.

Calling it "insane" is making you look much, much worse.  And I did say it:

wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?

Vote: Silverspawn

But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.


Strongman is part of his JOAT.  He can use it as a kill modifier if he kills.


Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 12:39:21 pm
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!

Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.

I disagree. What exactly is the simplest explanation for last night's one kill being a VT who would have looked very towny coming into today? There is no simple explanation. But this complex one fits all the facts of yesterday perfectly.
Well, first of all scum doesn't know who the VT's are. I'm sure they'd change their kill now if they could. But, here are a couple of alternatives of the top of my head:

Scum thought he was a pr.  IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2014, 12:45:11 pm
Scum thought he was a pr.  IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.

Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.

But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 12:47:19 pm
If I'm scum with IG, why did we kill ADK?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:47:32 pm
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.

Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself.  Of course, he kind of already implied this:

WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?

You understand me wrong. I do not mean to imply you're the SK, but maybe you are mafia and you didn't choose to kill ADK?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:49:03 pm
Scum thought he was a pr.  IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.

Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.

But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.

Suppose you are scum. Who would have been your nightkill?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:51:45 pm
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.

Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works.  It's worth pointing out.

The reason I respond to this is because I think it makes you scummy.

Firstly I have zero reason to fake a non-SK slip. I'm not a big suspect, and even if people believe me that I'm not an SK, I can still be mafia. what? Why should I see the need to do something like that. There is zero WIFOM.

Secondly, I showed you the post that was - and still is (!) - confusing me. I'll show you again. Here:

They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.

I thought I knew how the SK works. This post is the only problem. You said they can't use PR's if they kill. But strongman is a PR that doesn't make sense if you don't use it while you're attempting a kill. So, you were doing the post that confused me, and then you were voting for me based on the fact that your post was confusing.

This really makes me want to vote for you, because I just can't believe a town player would be serious with this case. But I also really want to do IG. The thing is that the IG case has all sorts of history with day1 and reason based on wagons, and there is the joth case, where as your case is more or less out of nowhere, I didn't find you scummy day1. Right now, I feel like voting for you could be a trap. Even though you're really trying hard to look scummy.

This post really feels townie for me.

You shouldn't stick to your D1 reads too much though (yes, I know, this coming from me...)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 12:52:42 pm
And I disagree those all are bad. ADK wasn't thought of as scummy (before his hammer, and I don't think the hammer was super scummy ultimately.. you were a big proponent of just going with it and lynching someone, so I'm not sure why you think so either). There was no obvious kill, no one claimed a pr (remarkable!) and no one was anyone's universal town read.

I can't come up with a super strong reason to kill anyone, and they had to go with someone and picked ADK. Maybe they had some reason, but it wasn't necessarily super strong or something we could deduct now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 12:52:47 pm
Scum thought he was a pr.  IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.

Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.

But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.

Suppose you are scum. Who would have been your nightkill?

Oh, err, of course disregard any PR reads you might have on people.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 12:56:13 pm
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.

Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself.  Of course, he kind of already implied this:

WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?

You understand me wrong. I do not mean to imply you're the SK, but maybe you are mafia and you didn't choose to kill ADK?

Oh, I didn't think of that.  That would be interesting.. there are possibilities: Jailkeeper, commuting, bulletproof, or Traitor Roleblocking.  Can't be SK because he shot.  Well, I know that I am not Mafia, but this theory is still possible for the real Mafia team.

Interestingly enough, it does explain the ADK kill.  He was the first one to start the "Silver is SK" thing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 01:07:24 pm
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.

Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself.  Of course, he kind of already implied this:

WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?

Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?

You understand me wrong. I do not mean to imply you're the SK, but maybe you are mafia and you didn't choose to kill ADK?

Oh, I didn't think of that.  That would be interesting.. there are possibilities: Jailkeeper, commuting, bulletproof, or Traitor Roleblocking.  Can't be SK because he shot.  Well, I know that I am not Mafia, but this theory is still possible for the real Mafia team.

Interestingly enough, it does explain the ADK kill.  He was the first one to start the "Silver is SK" thing.

Well, I have to say that this post looks rather townie. Maybe I'm just terrible at reading you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2014, 01:07:42 pm
Scum thought he was a pr.  IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.

Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.

But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.

Suppose you are scum. Who would have been your nightkill?

I can't answer this without sharing who I think hinted at having a PR day 1, which would be a bad thing to put out in the open. Suffice it to say, not ADK.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 01:13:36 pm
I have too many town reads this game... I tried figuring out who I wanted lynched if not WW (I'm less sure about him now, it's still decent, but maybe there are other options). And really all people who are active seem townie. There may be scum in Hydrad/Jimmmmm/ashersky, who are all very much absent, but there's not really a case for them. I could do Hydrad I guess.

And joth I don't get a read on at all. He seems very involved and doing stuff, but somehow it doesn't help me in figuring out his alignment.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 01:16:51 pm
Why is it you think Ichi is town?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 01:29:20 pm
Why is it you think Ichi is town?

I don't think his reaction to silverspawn's claim was something scum would do.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 07, 2014, 01:50:37 pm
Finished my light reread of ADK.
Things that stood out to me were his early voting me because he though my reactions to the silverspawn case was scummy because I didn't vote for him.

Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.
This, in particular is noteworthy.

All in All he seemed to find me scummy almost the whole day--and was pretty relentless in pushing my lynch multiple times. He was also quite suspicious of silverspawn and didn't like the lack of explanation surrounding his claim. He also defended WW quite a bit from various (I think legitimate) accusations. Then at the end he Hammers XP without having said much about him at all. Just that the wagon was "intriguing".
So I'm not sure. I still think ADK was a pretty odd nightkill choice--and he doesn't really come off as all that townie to me if we didn't have his flip.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 02:17:41 pm
While ADK was not the kill I expected, I don't think there is anyone particularly obvious to kill this time, which makes the ADK kill less weird.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 02:33:42 pm
So, I think the most plausible scenario for day1 is, Ichi and Hydrad are scum, they saw people pushing the Ichi case, so they shifted it towards XP instead. We should lynch Ichi today, if he flips scum, we should probably follow up with Hydrad. Other people to consider are joth, WW, and the lurkers, ash and Jimmm.

Basically, the only point where I disagree with joth is the case on Eevee. Let's not forget that he and IG were on the XP wagon pretty early. IG is the suspect, so that's no excuse for him, but it kind of is for Eevee. Plus, I just really don't get a scum feel from him.

necro:
Quote
IG -> Eevee -------> Hydrad -> silverspawn -> joth -> ADK

The biggest fear I have is that joth is scum. But i'm willing to risk that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 02:38:10 pm
or, we could do Hydrad first. That's probably even better. but one of those two.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 02:39:26 pm
I'm not sure I've ever seen Hydrad so not present. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 02:47:07 pm
I'm not sure I've ever seen Hydrad so not present.

On lunch now for a bit so I'll try to catch up and post thoughts right away
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2014, 02:47:16 pm
or, we could do Hydrad first. That's probably even better. but one of those two.

I think IG is a better choice. He's a much more informational lynch, more interactions to analyze. Plus, he's likely a VT if he's not scum (since he's been at L1 multiple times and never claimed). And if my theory is right he's a roleblocker, so so much the better to get rid of him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 02:53:50 pm
Post count, because I have no clue. Rereading Hydrad after this.

WW: 152
silverspawn: 113
Eevee: 108
IG: 80
joth: 71
faust: 59
Hydrad: 55
ashersky: 39
jimmm: 11

Well, my first impression is that both Jimmm and ashersky have been getting remarkably little scrutiny for their underposting. Jimmm is often a low poster, but not to this extent, and I don't think I've ever seen ash be such a non-factor halfway through day 2. Of Jimm's 10 posts after the game started, 5 were about Robz's avatar change and his only post today reads "And we are back."
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 02:54:23 pm
I have too many town reads this game... I tried figuring out who I wanted lynched if not WW (I'm less sure about him now, it's still decent, but maybe there are other options). And really all people who are active seem townie. There may be scum in Hydrad/Jimmmmm/ashersky, who are all very much absent, but there's not really a case for them. I could do Hydrad I guess.


By the way, this was the same thinking that led me to vote for Jimmmm, and then Hydrad, earlier.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 02:57:44 pm
Why is it you think Ichi is town?

I don't think his reaction to silverspawn's claim was something scum would do.

This didn't stop you from voting for him a couple times yesterday, though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 03:00:07 pm
Reread Hydrad.

I don't think he's scummy. Generally I see him considering all the angles and making a ton of sense all the way. Sure, he hasn't posted a lot but enough to touch on almost all the topics people are discussing, and probing others with questions constantly. I don't know, I don't get a scum vibe, I think he's played fine.

I do agree it would make sense for scum to be in the low posters given how the more active people don't appear scummy. I do have a bad feeling about WW I can't quite explain.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 03:01:15 pm
It's hard to say anything about Jimmm since the only information we have is that he voted for SS for his VT claim and found IG scummy early (and we don't know IG's alignment), and that he hasn't been posting much at all.

I guess I could go reread ash to see what he has been thinking since I have no idea.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 03:07:19 pm
Ash was more active day 1, although a lot of it was setup pondering. Biggest things I found were that he didn't suspect IG, suspected me for being hedgy, I don't think I ever got a response when I asked him to elaborate why he thought it was scummy, and the whole thing was quickly forgotten. Mentioned suspicion on ss and town reads on joth and WW.

Ash, where is your head at now?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 03:10:17 pm
Ok so here are my reads right now.

I'm going to do a scale of 1 - 10. where 10 is most likely scum and 1 is towny. 5 is null

WW: Still like fausts case on WW and is one of my higher scum reads. 8
silverspawn: Don't think scum would pull that VT move. seems towny but if there is a SK I think hes it. still think hes more town then SK though. 3
Eevee: Can't read this game that well. weird that he pushed xp and no one cares that much about it. 5
IG: Still feels really towny to me. 2
joth: I still think joth is scummy. I'm not sure how everyone seems to have such a town read on him. 7 for me.
faust: Only played with in dice mafia. I feel like his playstyle is different so this ones a bit more of a gut read. 7
Hydrad: -1 so towny i'm off the scale
ashersky: very little info but don't think town or scum asher would lurk for much reason. slight town read I guess but very little info to go off of 4.9
jimmm: for lurking and POE he is one of my higher lynch wants now. This is probably one of my more willing lynches as letting someone lurk till the end makes it almost impossible to read them to see if they are town or scum. I feel like this is what kinda happened in zelda mafia where I just couldn't build a case on him and he ended up winning there. 8

With this in mind I actually want to go for Vote: Jimmm Now.

PPE:3
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 03:14:17 pm
Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 03:18:55 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 03:24:11 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?

Would one convince you to vote for yourself?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 03:24:35 pm
1 - 10 scales are stupid. either make it 1 - 9 or 0 - 10. five isn't even in the middle of 1-10
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 03:26:03 pm
plus i never understood why people make 1 the lowest score. one is, like, one. one point. something. you give him a point. why give the worst thing a point?

it should start with zero.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 03:26:45 pm
1 - 10 scales are stupid. either make it 1 - 9 or 0 - 10. five isn't even in the middle of 1-10

hmm thats true. ok lets say thats 0-10 now. the numbers would be almost the same and now 5 is in the middle.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 07, 2014, 03:27:14 pm
I don't have many actual things to say about your reads. the fact that you make long posts makes me think you're scum. this list could easily be done by scum!hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 03:28:01 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?

Would one convince you to vote for yourself?

nope. but I guess it might help others vote for me if you reason is good enough. and I'm kinda curious.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 03:28:13 pm
Why not make the scale from -95 to 105?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 03:28:51 pm
I agree with most of Hydrad's reads (I think faust is towny is the biggest difference). Town read strengthens (<-- one of the hardest words to spell or what?).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 07, 2014, 03:29:12 pm
Why not make the scale from -95 to 105?

i feel like I don't want to use a scale anymore... I thought it was a good idea.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 03:30:34 pm
Silver, the argument that Hydrad is more polished than usual did enter my mind, but ultimately, at least for today, I want to give the guy who thinks similarly to me the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 07, 2014, 04:17:35 pm
Sorry guys, letting another one slip. I'll catch up today, I promise.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 04:43:37 pm
Post count, because I have no clue. Rereading Hydrad after this.

WW: 152
silverspawn: 113
Eevee: 108
IG: 80
joth: 71
faust: 59
Hydrad: 55
ashersky: 39
jimmm: 11

Well, my first impression is that both Jimmm and ashersky have been getting remarkably little scrutiny for their underposting. Jimmm is often a low poster, but not to this extent, and I don't think I've ever seen ash be such a non-factor halfway through day 2. Of Jimm's 10 posts after the game started, 5 were about Robz's avatar change and his only post today reads "And we are back."

Ash is still VLA, I think.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 04:44:23 pm
Why is it you think Ichi is town?

I don't think his reaction to silverspawn's claim was something scum would do.

This didn't stop you from voting for him a couple times yesterday, though.

Well, I changed my mind. I hear you know something about that, right?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 07, 2014, 04:49:50 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?

Would one convince you to vote for yourself?

Probably not, but what about me?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 05:11:06 pm
Hey guys, I'm back home now.  I need to re-read this entire game, as even though I've skimmed along on train and hotel wifi, I haven't really processed anything.  I'll read today and post some new thoughts.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 07, 2014, 05:16:35 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?

Would one convince you to vote for yourself?

Probably not, but what about me?

Eh alright.. PoE makes him a good candidate already, and then there's been quite a bit of opportunistic wagon jumping.  He was in a  middle position on the XP wagon, jumped on you and then on Jimmm.  Jimm in particularly looks like a likely lynch today simply because he's not around and a lot of people have voted for him or indicated they would vote for him.  I think he's second on the wagon right now.  His reads list just feels very safe to me.. nothing too out of the ordinary except for his extreme defense of Ichi, which I've found suspicious.  Plus, Hydrad is usually quite active and posting a lot in all the other games I've been in with him.  And he's been town in all those games.  It could be a case of not knowing what to post as scum.

The wagon jumping point is somewhat mitigated by that being within his normal (town) meta, so take that as you will.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 05:51:48 pm
Hey guys, I'm back home now.  I need to re-read this entire game, as even though I've skimmed along on train and hotel wifi, I haven't really processed anything.  I'll read today and post some new thoughts.
Cool! A fresh perspective ought to be quite helpful.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 05:55:10 pm
Vote: Hydrad

Do i get a reason?

Would one convince you to vote for yourself?

Probably not, but what about me?

Eh alright.. PoE makes him a good candidate already, and then there's been quite a bit of opportunistic wagon jumping.  He was in a  middle position on the XP wagon, jumped on you and then on Jimmm.  Jimm in particularly looks like a likely lynch today simply because he's not around and a lot of people have voted for him or indicated they would vote for him.  I think he's second on the wagon right now.  His reads list just feels very safe to me.. nothing too out of the ordinary except for his extreme defense of Ichi, which I've found suspicious.  Plus, Hydrad is usually quite active and posting a lot in all the other games I've been in with him.  And he's been town in all those games.  It could be a case of not knowing what to post as scum.

The wagon jumping point is somewhat mitigated by that being within his normal (town) meta, so take that as you will.
Despite his lowish post count, Hydrad isn't low in content at all. First of all, 55 posts halfway through day 2 is decent activity in itself, we've just had a couple very high posters, and secondly, as far as I can tell he has offered his opinion on almost every issue. When I reread him I was surprised how high in content his posts were.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 06:47:07 pm
First re-read was XP, since he was lynched D1 and flipped town.

First half of D1 he didn't have many reads.  Voted a few times.  He gets to a point where he votes for IG and mentions that he'd look at faust if IG was scum.  Switched to Eevee later, stating that trying to lynch XP is a universal scumtell (that's a bit of stretch).

At one point, IG thinks he's hammered again, XP points out that he's not but he could hammer.  He doesn't.  Then his wagon gets going and he doesn't post again until L-1, when he claims VT.  His final reads aren't very in-depth.

So, that wasn't a very useful re-read.  ADK next.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 06:54:05 pm
There's not really much to ADK of note...he does an early reads list, giving scum points to faust and generally looking at those avoiding scrutiny (Jimmmm and Hydrad).  He mentions me there but say he doesn't like my lynch on D1 out of principle.

He does defend WW a bit on the IG rolefish play.  He pulled the second vote surprise fake hammer play.  That was nice.

He stated intent to hammer XP and joth got angry at him, but it looks like a misunderstanding.  Then he does hammer eventually.

He and I had a small discussion on claiming, he said he was against it.  That's about the only thing that could be construed as a PR slip for him.  Otherwise, I think the only reason scum kill ADK is to ensure a kill goes through -- so perhaps they fear protection?  Is that even in this setup?  I need to check.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 06:55:00 pm
Yeah, I guess they could be fearing Watcher, Commuter, or Bodyguard (sort of).

Afraid of being Watched makes the most sense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 06:58:33 pm
Jimmmmmm has 9 in-game posts.

1.  He votes for Hydrad for an "inflated" Eevee case.
2.  Robz avatar stuff.
3.  He votes for Silver for the VT claim.
4.  Robz avatar joke.
5.  Robz avatar stuff.
6.  He votes for IG for "trying to hard to come up with reasons to do things."
7.  Comments on the IG Non-Hammer Issue.
8.  "And we're back" d2 post.
9.  Sorry, will catch up.

So...that's a lot of voting for so few posts, each with "reasons" found or come up with quickly while not really playing the game in real time.  Relatively scummy.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2014, 07:13:31 pm
Yeah, I guess they could be fearing Watcher, Commuter, or Bodyguard (sort of).

Afraid of being Watched makes the most sense.
Oh, in this light ADK is actually quite a sensible kill. Someone who was towny and active, but not so much so that shooting them is likely to backfire due to a town pr.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 07, 2014, 07:15:23 pm
Yeah, I guess they could be fearing Watcher, Commuter, or Bodyguard (sort of).

Afraid of being Watched makes the most sense.
Oh, in this light ADK is actually quite a sensible kill. Someone who was towny and active, but not so much so that shooting them is likely to backfire due to a town pr.

And Watcher is in two setups, but where the mafia team gets the 2-Shot JOAT.  So they'd know it exists.  It's just a theory.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 08, 2014, 02:13:28 am
there is also JK
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 08, 2014, 05:56:24 am
Okay.

Re-read faust as he had 2 votes on him at the last vote count. Some of his earlier posts came across as a tad ingenuine to me.

Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5

I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi

Wow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.

I don't know, I just kind of get the sense he was trying to find justification for placing votes, with the use of buzzwords such as "weird" and "crazy".

Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.

Vote: Witherweaver

I'm not convinced by his argument on WW, and again use of the word "troubled" sounds like he's trying to emulate how he is supposed to feel.

So Vote: faust for now.

That's not much, but it's something. I'm off to bed; I'll try to give more tomorrow after work.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 06:17:24 am
Okay.

Re-read faust as he had 2 votes on him at the last vote count. Some of his earlier posts came across as a tad ingenuine to me.

Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.

Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad

PPE 5

I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.

Vote: Ichi

Wow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.

I don't know, I just kind of get the sense he was trying to find justification for placing votes, with the use of buzzwords such as "weird" and "crazy".

Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.

Vote: Witherweaver

I'm not convinced by his argument on WW, and again use of the word "troubled" sounds like he's trying to emulate how he is supposed to feel.

So Vote: faust for now.

That's not much, but it's something. I'm off to bed; I'll try to give more tomorrow after work.

I have no idea how to respond to this. I don't really get what this case is all about. I'm using certain words; I think everyone is using these words. But I'm scummy because I'm using them.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 06:18:58 am
This whole "I reread the biggest wagon (well, 2 votes) and found some reason to jump it" falls in the "so scummy it's hard to believe scum actually does that"-category.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 12:36:02 pm
How soon is the deadline?

I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment. Defending myself normally just gets me into more trouble.
I think Jimmmmm's latest post is scummy and his lack of commitment on important things like silverspawn's claim also looks bad to me.

So vote: Jimmmmm I guess.

As to the case on Hydrad, I have somewhat of a history of mislynching him. Still, I'm wary of the pretty baseless accusation of him having low content this game.

I'm also surprised that silver just continues on his way with pretty much no suspicion for his D1 claim, so it makes me kind of nervous seeing this day controlled by people I think are scum. All I can say is this game is playing out pretty strangely.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2014, 12:39:20 pm
I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.

What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 12:40:57 pm
IG's vote on Jimmm doesn't feel good.

unvote if that's where my vote is still at, I was mostly
prompting him to post.

I totally see what silver is saying about Jimmm's latest, but when everyone starts piling on the super lurker it starts looking unappealing to me.

WW and IG are my top choices for today at this point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 12:53:51 pm
I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.

What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.
Although I don't have a ton of votes on me at the moment, almost everyone has said that I'm probably the best lynch for today cause "information".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 12:55:26 pm
... huh?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2014, 12:55:34 pm
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.

I don't deny this at all. And I don't think it reflects on my alignment at all. You know who's easy to run up to L1 but hard to kill? Scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2014, 12:56:29 pm
I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.

What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.
Although I don't have a ton of votes on me at the moment, almost everyone has said that I'm probably the best lynch for today cause "information".

Also please show me where ANYONE BUT ME has said that.

Guys, this is the classic scum tell, thinking you're in more danger than you actually are.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 01:09:36 pm
I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.

What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.
Although I don't have a ton of votes on me at the moment, almost everyone has said that I'm probably the best lynch for today cause "information".

Also please show me where ANYONE BUT ME has said that.

Guys, this is the classic scum tell, thinking you're in more danger than you actually are.

Hm. I agree with this. I'm really torn on Ichi right now. I feel like I let too many things pass "because he's Ichi" and maybe I shouldn't.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 08, 2014, 01:12:44 pm
Quote
Guys, this is the classic scum tell, thinking you're in more danger than you actually are.

well I was scum in the game that just ended, and I know that this is true. there was an early case against me, and i felt way too much pressure. that basically gave me away right there. WW I think noticed it. It didn't end up hunting me too much, but it probably should ahve.

still, IG is under a lot of pressure here. he may have only one vote, but a lot of people have expressed his feelings about him. so, I'm not sure it applies in this case.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 01:12:55 pm
This whole "I reread the biggest wagon (well, 2 votes) and found some reason to jump it" falls in the "so scummy it's hard to believe scum actually does that"-category.

Didn't you only have one vote?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 01:13:28 pm
Jimmmmm, what do you think about everything that has gone down with Ichi?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 01:17:56 pm
This whole "I reread the biggest wagon (well, 2 votes) and found some reason to jump it" falls in the "so scummy it's hard to believe scum actually does that"-category.

Didn't you only have one vote?

You and Hydrad, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 01:20:08 pm
I had moved my vote to Silverspawn, and then to Hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 01:22:48 pm
IG's vote on Jimmm doesn't feel good.
WW and IG are my top choices for today at this point.

I guess Ichi's flip will be quite information for us now, if not anything else. I do share joth's concerns about the lack of claim though.

PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.
No, but when you flip, it will be informational. :) Sheeping doesn't take away the information value, not at all. People took strong stances on you early, that's information.
There you go. Most players have expressed a desire to lynch me, but it seems Eevee was the major person aside from you that made the same arguments about my informational flip.
Please. "classic" scumtell. I made scum MVP the last time I was scum. And I coasted almost that whole game with very little suspicion. I chose to react to the early bad votes on me the way I did.


PPE faust: Interesting. I want to hear how you think my meta relates to this game.

PPE: more
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 01:23:58 pm
I had moved my vote to Silverspawn, and then to Hydrad.

Right. But Jimmmmm explicitly stated that he reread me because I had two votes on me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 01:27:54 pm
PPE faust: Interesting. I want to hear how you think my meta relates to this game.

Well, I always find you scummy because you seem to be defending yourself too much. So if you're accused of "thinking you're in more danger than you actually are", I read that and think "well yes, but it's Ichi, he always defends that much, he seems to feel the danger even when he's town".
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 08, 2014, 01:29:05 pm
I made scum MVP the last time I was scum. And I coasted almost that whole game with very little suspicion.

This is, aside from coming across as a bit arrogant, a bad argument.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 01:34:42 pm
I made scum MVP the last time I was scum. And I coasted almost that whole game with very little suspicion.

This is, aside from coming across as a bit arrogant, a bad argument.
Didn't mean it that way. I try to be humble, because of course I still make plenty of mistakes as any alignment. I guess what I meant by it is I think that I've proven myself to at least be not totally incompetent as scum, so I think some of the arguments against me do not have a ton of basis--especially given my meta of defending myself strongly regardless of alignment.

Got to go, but I should be back soon.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 01:35:19 pm
I had moved my vote to Silverspawn, and then to Hydrad.

Right. But Jimmmmm explicitly stated that he reread me because I had two votes on me.

Oh, I didn't see that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 08, 2014, 02:50:34 pm
Jimmmmm, what do you think about everything that has gone down with Ichi?

Nothing yet; that'll be my job for tonight.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 04:19:54 pm
How soon is the deadline?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 08, 2014, 05:03:12 pm
How soon is the deadline?

Not soon, I don't think.


mail-mi -- are you still around for this game at least?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 06:39:29 pm
"I'm too good at playing scum to be caught like this, you fools!" Vintage Robz, but I guess someone has to say it since he missed this game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 06:54:24 pm
Ha, I gotta start using that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 06:55:41 pm
Ha, I gotta start using that.
I already trademarked it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 07:03:26 pm
Ha, I gotta start using that.
I already trademarked it.
No, that really was Robz. Two years ago.

It's also a silly argument. You are essentially saying "I'm so good at playing scum that the only way I would get votes is if I'm town. Get with the program." Sorry if we don't take your word for it. :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 07:05:20 pm
Oh golly! I just love making people's signatures.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 08, 2014, 07:09:19 pm
Ha, I gotta start using that.
I already trademarked it.
No, that really was Robz. Two years ago.

It's also a silly argument. You are essentially saying "I'm so good at playing scum that the only way I would get votes is if I'm town. Get with the program." Sorry if we don't take your word for it. :)
Just Kidding.
Really though, I didn't mean it like "I am the invincible scum player who can never be caught". I just didn't think the argument of me making "classic" scum behavior was that believable. I fight all my lynches hard regardless of alignment. So I don't think ichi defending himself should be a towntell or a scumtell, just an ichitell.

PPE: :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 07:14:29 pm
Okay, that's a fair point. I personally haven't experienced it ever to this extent, but others have been saying the same thing.

I'm going back and forth on you, the suspicion also comes from PoE and it fitting some plausible narratives. This game is hard!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: mail-mi on October 08, 2014, 10:43:16 pm
How soon is the deadline?

Not soon, I don't think.


mail-mi -- are you still around for this game at least?

Yep! However, e will be helping me comod from now on. Anything he posts, consider it posted by me. (and yuma).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 10:44:31 pm
Thanksies to you both!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 11:09:25 pm
A wild Eevee appears!  ..to mod
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 11:09:49 pm
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game.  Nevermind.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 11:12:21 pm
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game.  Nevermind.
I'm hurt you'd forget!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 08, 2014, 11:14:50 pm
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game.  Nevermind.
I'm hurt you'd forget!

Once you started considering lynching me, you became dead to me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2014, 11:41:34 pm
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game.  Nevermind.
I'm hurt you'd forget!

Once you started considering lynching me, you became dead to me.
If you get your will and I'm lynched, I'll be dead to everyone else too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 09, 2014, 12:21:37 am
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything.  He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.

He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 09, 2014, 12:36:38 am
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything.  He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.

He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.

That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.

Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 12:38:33 am
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything.  He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.

He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.

That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.

Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 09, 2014, 12:40:50 am
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything.  He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.

He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.

That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.

Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.

Ya I was more just pointing out a interesting fact. But I'm glad asher heard from him. Makes me feel better.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 12:43:45 am
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything.  He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.

He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.

That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.

Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.

Ya I was more just pointing out a interesting fact. But I'm glad asher heard from him. Makes me feel better.
Me too. So yeah, glad to hear there's no hard feelings and we wish yuma the best of everything.

Anyway, (back to the game) I've said about all I can in my defense. I think Jimmmmm might be one of the better lynches of today--though I don't have many townreads that I trust. I'd also like to see silver at least get some heat (I keep saying this but it seems like claiming VT day 1 makes you golden I guess).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 09, 2014, 12:49:25 am

Anyway, (back to the game) I've said about all I can in my defense. I think Jimmmmm might be one of the better lynches of today--though I don't have many townreads that I trust. I'd also like to see silver at least get some heat (I keep saying this but it seems like claiming VT day 1 makes you golden I guess).

One thing I will say is if I see someone claim VT in a game in the future I won't react this way as they might of seen it work and try it again. As a first time when I havn't seen anyone else do it I feel like scum wouldn't do it. (I know me personally am never going to be bold enough to try something like that).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 09, 2014, 12:51:36 am
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver

Want to share?

I do! But it's not the right thing for town if I do. When I have some time (i.e. when I'm not at work) I'm going to re-read day 1 and see if anything jumps out.

What was this about again?  Joth figured something out after asking about likelihood of SK existence and Silver doing math...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 09, 2014, 01:07:04 am
Okay, just re-read all of D2.

jotheonah is the big voice of the day.  He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum.  I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz.  I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.

Eevee is around, basically his normal buddying self.  That used to be a tell, but not anymore.  I'm not giving him a town read at this time.

Jimmmmm's few posts have been scummy, but so few that it could just feel scummy.

IG is impossible to fairly assess now.  I do think his lynch isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure he's scum or anything.  He's done some scummy stuff, but he reminds me of me in the early days just being scummy towny.

WW/Teproc are blending together.  That's normally a bad thing.

Faust is reminding me a bit of his Dune performance, so I'm wary.

I have no firm town reads, I guess.  That's sort of scary.  I got little out of analyzing the dead players, given they are not scum (so much better when we hit scum on D1).  I think a lynch sooner rather than later is good for D2.

Are we at the point where we want to know the setup we're in?  It's easily done with a semi-claim plan.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 01:25:28 am

Anyway, (back to the game) I've said about all I can in my defense. I think Jimmmmm might be one of the better lynches of today--though I don't have many townreads that I trust. I'd also like to see silver at least get some heat (I keep saying this but it seems like claiming VT day 1 makes you golden I guess).

One thing I will say is if I see someone claim VT in a game in the future I won't react this way as they might of seen it work and try it again. As a first time when I havn't seen anyone else do it I feel like scum wouldn't do it. (I know me personally am never going to be bold enough to try something like that).
Historically day 1 VT claims have had a terrible track record of surviving and a great track record of flipping town. Those were all way before silverspawn even joined f.ds, so I doubt he knew that.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 01:30:21 am
Okay, just re-read all of D2.

jotheonah is the big voice of the day.  He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum.  I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz.  I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 01:31:56 am
Okay, just re-read all of D2.

jotheonah is the big voice of the day.  He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum.  I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz.  I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's and I'm worried your description becomes a self-filling prophecy.
Sent the message prematurely, finished the last sentence for clarity.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 01:32:35 am
Okay, just re-read all of D2.

jotheonah is the big voice of the day.  He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum.  I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz.  I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's and I'm worried your description becomes a self-filling prophecy.
Sent the message prematurely, finished the last sentence for clarity.
And it should of course say self-fulfilling. Self-filling is.. something else.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 09, 2014, 01:39:49 am
I guess you are right -- he's not yet being followed.

I do think he's the main voice being heard today, though.  And that could be what he wants.  I mean, he denounced the XP wagon harshly today, and yet he was on it.  That's a classic scum move if he'd been able to stay off the wagon, but not as much while actually being a part of it.  It's the little things like that which worry me.

But at this point, I think he's not the right lynch for today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 01:57:58 am
I guess you are right -- he's not yet being followed.

I do think he's the main voice being heard today, though.  And that could be what he wants.  I mean, he denounced the XP wagon harshly today, and yet he was on it.  That's a classic scum move if he'd been able to stay off the wagon, but not as much while actually being a part of it.  It's the little things like that which worry me.

But at this point, I think he's not the right lynch for today.
Why do you say yet? Do you think he will be?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2014, 02:00:02 am
He isn't even necessarily the most active as far as I can tell, he just appears more sure than others. I don't think we are a herd of sheep that will buy into whatever someone's selling as long as they insist on it, in general I think we have a great, active town (especially now that you and Jimm have returned), and I think that people won't settle for joth's cases just because they are currently the only ones, but that they'll find their own if none of the existing ones please them.

Again joth, I really don't mean no disrespect. We just have very different reads this game!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 09, 2014, 08:05:26 am
I don't think it's time for even a semi claim yet. We've managed to keep even a single PR from being outed so far.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 09, 2014, 08:12:55 am
Vote Count 2.2

Witherweaver (1): faust
Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
faust (1): Jimmmmm
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): jotheonah

Not Voting (2): ashersky, Eevee

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 09, 2014, 10:24:51 am
I guess you are right -- he's not yet being followed.

I do think he's the main voice being heard today, though.  And that could be what he wants.  I mean, he denounced the XP wagon harshly today, and yet he was on it.  That's a classic scum move if he'd been able to stay off the wagon, but not as much while actually being a part of it.  It's the little things like that which worry me.

But at this point, I think he's not the right lynch for today.

Oh, the irony!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 09, 2014, 10:31:50 am
Okay, just re-read all of D2.

jotheonah is the big voice of the day.  He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum.  I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz.  I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.

Eevee is around, basically his normal buddying self.  That used to be a tell, but not anymore.  I'm not giving him a town read at this time.

Jimmmmm's few posts have been scummy, but so few that it could just feel scummy.

IG is impossible to fairly assess now.  I do think his lynch isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure he's scum or anything.  He's done some scummy stuff, but he reminds me of me in the early days just being scummy towny.

WW/Teproc are blending together.  That's normally a bad thing.

Faust is reminding me a bit of his Dune performance, so I'm wary.

I have no firm town reads, I guess.  That's sort of scary.  I got little out of analyzing the dead players, given they are not scum (so much better when we hit scum on D1).  I think a lynch sooner rather than later is good for D2.

Are we at the point where we want to know the setup we're in?  It's easily done with a semi-claim plan.

This list... I don't really see the reads from it. It's like "everyone's a bit scummy". I think scum would want to have some reads put down. Then again, I always fear that scumhunting techniques I use on others will fail on ashersky, but still, it feels a bit townie.

silverspawn isn't on this list. What do you think about him?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 09, 2014, 10:33:11 am
Oh, same with Hydrad, btw. I'm more interested in the silverspawn read, because of everything that happened, but it would also be nice to hear about Hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 09, 2014, 11:09:28 am
I don't think it's time for even a semi claim yet. We've managed to keep even a single PR from being outed so far.

That is a very reasonable, very standard reply that I could easily see coming from scum.

I don't know about the claims. Looking at the setup again... I have some ideas, but uh... I'm not sure how to formulate them without soft-claiming stuff. I can see some advantages to claiming definitely.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 09, 2014, 02:27:38 pm
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...

What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 09, 2014, 02:30:35 pm
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...

What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?

Absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 09, 2014, 02:30:46 pm
asher feels a bit weird? As I don't see a bunch of confidence like I've seen in other games where he finds scum (or thinks hes found scum) and pushes them hard. But I still like Jimmm the most and would say I have a nullish on asher still.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 02:35:25 pm
Quite null on Ash.  Slight, uh.. non-Ash feel from him. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 02:59:31 pm
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...

What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 03:01:07 pm
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...

What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.

Ambiguous pronoun.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 03:14:06 pm
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...

What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.

Ambiguous pronoun.
2nd him = I don't really trust joth much at this point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 03:16:20 pm
So you agreed with what Ash's comment said about Joth.. not that you didn't like the comment in a meta sense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 03:21:45 pm
So you agreed with what Ash's comment said about Joth.. not that you didn't like the comment in a meta sense.
I don't think that joth has so far had a ton of success in swaying people, but he has been vocal and active and has some supporters.
So I'd somewhat agree with Ash's comment. Yeah, it's not that I didn't like the comment in a meta sense, I just don't like the idea of joth leading town at this point (because I feel he's pretty scummy).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 03:22:41 pm
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest.  If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 03:26:46 pm
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest.  If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?
My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.

He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 03:29:20 pm
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest.  If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?
My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.

He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.

How did you feel about Day 1 of Dice Mafia?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 03:32:13 pm
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest.  If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?
My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.

He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.

How did you feel about Day 1 of Dice Mafia?
I got what I thought was a ton of unfair heat early there as well. I really disliked what I saw as faust using pure dice rolls as evidence to lynch people, so we argued a lot about that.

So, if this is related to wanting to end days early, I was mostly mad that game at what I saw as a bunch of unproductive theory discussion that distracted from actual reads.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 03:36:48 pm
I more meant about the day ending prematurely. 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 03:57:53 pm
I more meant about the day ending prematurely.
Oh. I guess we did lynch scum!Voltaire pretty early in that game. And it looks like Ash quickhammered him that day.

Well, how long was our D1 in this game compared to this one? I think both were approximately 30 pages or so. Did you want my opinion on something more specific about it?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 04:05:47 pm
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town.  (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 09, 2014, 04:09:14 pm
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town.  (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)

I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 04:11:08 pm
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town.  (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)

I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.

Well clearly you think that, but that's the argument he's making:

I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest.  If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?
My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.

He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 09, 2014, 04:15:35 pm
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town.  (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)

I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
;)
Ash quickhammered Voltaire without even letting him claim and his instinct proved to be right that game. It could have just as easily been a mislynch or Volt could even have been a town PR. I am not saying that a quick day is bad in all circumstances. But when I see myself on the fast road to a mislynch and people proclaiming the numerous benefits of hammering people on accident and voting without giving any reasons, a quick day looks pretty bad to me.

There's a line between having too much discussion so scum can confuse people and gradually push the cases they want, and having too little so town has very little evidence from flips and not many people committed to wagons or had possible partner interactions. With all that went on D1, I think that having someone end the day at the point when joth was making all of these arguments would have been a very poor choice.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 09, 2014, 04:31:39 pm
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town.  (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)

I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
;)
Ash quickhammered Voltaire without even letting him claim and his instinct proved to be right that game. It could have just as easily been a mislynch or Volt could even have been a town PR. I am not saying that a quick day is bad in all circumstances. But when I see myself on the fast road to a mislynch and people proclaiming the numerous benefits of hammering people on accident and voting without giving any reasons, a quick day looks pretty bad to me.

There's a line between having too much discussion so scum can confuse people and gradually push the cases they want, and having too little so town has very little evidence from flips and not many people committed to wagons or had possible partner interactions. With all that went on D1, I think that having someone end the day at the point when joth was making all of these arguments would have been a very poor choice.

I don't think we can have this discussion productively without knowing your alignment. I think if we'd ended the day then we would have lynched you and not XP, and I think we would have lynched scum. So I hope history will ultimately vindicate me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 09, 2014, 04:41:10 pm
Clearly what everyone is saying is that as long as I'm the one to end the day early, we're all good.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 05:26:15 pm
Clearly what everyone is saying is that as long as I'm the one to end the day early, we're all good.

Why didn't you hammer Ichi yesterday? :(
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 09, 2014, 05:26:29 pm
WAIT I KNOW!  ASH IS SCUM!  TOWN ASH WOULD HAVE HAMMERED
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 09, 2014, 05:33:55 pm
WAIT I KNOW!  ASH IS SCUM!  TOWN ASH WOULD HAVE HAMMERED

Vote: ash

Best case I've seen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 10, 2014, 08:36:30 pm
Now what?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 03:07:54 am
now we let this game stall until shortly before the deadline, when we will, due to lack of time, lynch you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 11, 2014, 03:22:57 am
now we let this game stall until shortly before the deadline, when we will, due to lack of time, lynch you.
Sounds like you've given this a lot of thought. . .
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 03:24:55 am
Well I have posted my thoughts already. I think you're scum. In fact, I think it's over 50%. I also think Hydrad could very well be scum.

I don't know how to keep a game from stalling on my own. I don't have anything new to say.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 11, 2014, 03:27:38 am
Well I have posted my thoughts already. I think you're scum. In fact, I think it's over 50%. I also think Hydrad could very well be scum.

I don't know how to keep a game from stalling on my own. I don't have anything new to say.

Any town reads?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 11, 2014, 03:30:40 am
I still think lynching WW is a good option here. I want to vote Jimmmmm for super lurking and not contributing, but sadly, that's not an alignment tell. joth could be scum, a little afraid of that - the stalling also supports his cause, because it means we will likely lynch Ichi. So yeah, I'd vote any of these I guess. I like WW best though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 04:50:33 am
town reads are you and eevee. mostly you.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 11, 2014, 08:46:48 am
Vote Count 2.3

Witherweaver (1): faust
Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm

Not Voting (2): ashersky, Eevee

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 08:48:00 am
vote: Ichimaru Gin
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 08:48:19 am
maybe that helps to get something going
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 11, 2014, 08:50:00 am
Yeah, let's start some wagons.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 08:53:36 am
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2014, 11:17:41 am
Since there is no one on WW anymore, I'll vote: IG too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 11, 2014, 11:30:40 am
I think Hydrad is the right choice.

My name is Witherweaver and I endorse this message.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 11, 2014, 11:35:05 am
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.

I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2014, 11:47:39 am
I think I have explained enough why I like the ichi lynch. And really, all you need to do is read joth's case.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 11, 2014, 12:11:12 pm
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.

I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...

Do scum really line up mislynches like this?  I feel like it's one of those things that is always pointed out as a scum tell, but scum never actually do.  Though, Silver is new enough that he may not be aware of how often it's jumped on.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 11, 2014, 12:50:22 pm
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.

I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...

Do scum really line up mislynches like this?  I feel like it's one of those things that is always pointed out as a scum tell, but scum never actually do.  Though, Silver is new enough that he may not be aware of how often it's jumped on.

Well, from my experience, when I'm scum, I think a lot about who can potentially be mislynched on future days... and "lining up" mislynches for me basically is these thoughts diffusing into posts.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 11, 2014, 12:52:29 pm
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
Man, what is the case on me really?
Me defending myself too much, again. We've only been in one game together before where I was town and got almost no heat. But I've defended myself similarly in nearly every other non-RMM setup. I know that there may be more to my case (I can't actually recall what it is--maybe my lack of a claim, but I can't believe that argument), but if people really want to look, they could go read some of D1 of dice mafia--and that should hopefully clear up my defensiveness.

Waiting until the very end of the deadline and then lynching is generally a bad idea. I understand if you guys want me as the "default" lynch of today, but I take the bolded line as you trying to convince yourself of how good my lynch is--when there's really not much substance behind the case on me. I agree that my flip should give a lot of information, so I can understand it from that point of view.

I also think the extreme lack of heat you've given so far hasn't neccessarily been healthy. I know that I distracted to a large degree from your early claim, but it still stands that you did it and got barely any heat for it.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 11, 2014, 02:51:54 pm
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.

If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.

I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...

Do scum really line up mislynches like this?  I feel like it's one of those things that is always pointed out as a scum tell, but scum never actually do.  Though, Silver is new enough that he may not be aware of how often it's jumped on.

Well, from my experience, when I'm scum, I think a lot about who can potentially be mislynched on future days... and "lining up" mislynches for me basically is these thoughts diffusing into posts.

But aren't you careful not to let it into your posts? 
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 11, 2014, 02:52:47 pm
I'm losing my scum read on Ichi, and that makes me a sad panda.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 11, 2014, 07:33:03 pm
Yeah, let's start some wagons.

Vote: Jimmmmm

vote: jimmmmm.  This is L-1.  Maybe it spurs him into action?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 03:20:18 am
Ichi, what makes your case so good is primarily how your wagon shifted to XP in day one, secondary how you reacted when you thought you were hammered, and maybe third how you are overdefensive. that's not the main point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 12, 2014, 07:27:18 am
But aren't you careful not to let it into your posts?

Well, that really depends... As scum, I usually try not to overthink what I'm doing, so that my behaviour looks more natural. I actually think I was called out in my first game as mafia (M31) for this exact thing - lining up mislynches. Since then I obviously got more experience and now I wouldn't do something like that as either alignment.

The thing about silverspawn is, in previous games he made it very clear that a major element of his play is to look townie. So I think if he knew this scum tell, he would have been careful not to let is in his post even if he's town. So we have to assume he didn't know about it. And in this case, I think it's a thought that scum is much more likely to have, because they know it's going to be a mislynch. As town, I want to lynch and see the flip and then do analysis from there and not just lynch the next player not regarding the new information I gained.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 07:59:13 am
But aren't you careful not to let it into your posts?

Well, that really depends... As scum, I usually try not to overthink what I'm doing, so that my behaviour looks more natural. I actually think I was called out in my first game as mafia (M31) for this exact thing - lining up mislynches. Since then I obviously got more experience and now I wouldn't do something like that as either alignment.

The thing about silverspawn is, in previous games he made it very clear that a major element of his play is to look townie. So I think if he knew this scum tell, he would have been careful not to let is in his post even if he's town. So we have to assume he didn't know about it. And in this case, I think it's a thought that scum is much more likely to have, because they know it's going to be a mislynch. As town, I want to lynch and see the flip and then do analysis from there and not just lynch the next player not regarding the new information I gained.

this whole argument flies out the window if he turns out to be a good lynch though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 08:00:41 am
but yea, i didn't know about this scum tell. I assume what you are referring to is that I said "we can do Jimmm tomorrow if IG flips town", right?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 12, 2014, 09:56:50 am
but yea, i didn't know about this scum tell. I assume what you are referring to is that I said "we can do Jimmm tomorrow if IG flips town", right?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

Oh, and: prod time!

Request prod on Hydrad
Request prod on jotheonah
Request prod on Jimmmmm
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 10:00:46 am
Quote
this whole argument flies out the window if he turns out to be a good lynch though.

you aren't responding to this. if we lynch jimmm today (which might happen, as it looks now) and he flips scum, you will drop the case, yes?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 12, 2014, 10:20:15 am
Quote
this whole argument flies out the window if he turns out to be a good lynch though.

you aren't responding to this. if we lynch jimmm today (which might happen, as it looks now) and he flips scum, you will drop the case, yes?

Sure, if we manage to lynch scum today, then there are much stronger cases to be made than this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 12, 2014, 10:23:59 am
Ah I apologize for not posting more. I still like the Jimmm lynch the most.

as for the possible silver lining up lynches I don't think looking into it is a huge thing? I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 11:10:59 am
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.

are you using the present perfect because you are not town in this game?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 12, 2014, 11:15:21 am
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.

are you using the present perfect because you are not town in this game?

No. More like I havn't though about who I'm going to lynch the next day at all this game. I'm just trying to lynch someone and after we have more info then i try to figure out who is the next scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 12, 2014, 11:15:56 am
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.

are you using the present perfect because you are not town in this game?

No. More like I haven't thought about who I'm going to lynch the next day at all this game. I'm just trying to lynch someone and after we have more info then i try to figure out who is the next scum.

edited spelling.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2014, 11:35:14 am
this could honestly be a scum slip. I'm not sure it is, but it could be. I already thought you were scum before though.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 12, 2014, 06:03:35 pm
We could all just lynch Hydrad....
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 12, 2014, 06:49:49 pm
We could all just lynch Hydrad....
I'd definitely prefer that over myself. However, I do end up mislynching him quite often. What's the case on him again?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 12, 2014, 06:54:57 pm
We could all just lynch Hydrad....
I'd definitely prefer that over myself. However, I do end up mislynching him quite often. What's the case on him again?

Cases are lame.  Go read him, see if you agree.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 12, 2014, 08:33:35 pm
but yea, i didn't know about this scum tell. I assume what you are referring to is that I said "we can do Jimmm tomorrow if IG flips town", right?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

Oh, and: prod time!

Request prod on Hydrad
Request prod on jotheonah
Request prod on Jimmmmm

I have been reading, I'm just out of things to say. Ichi lynch is best lynch. He's as scummy as he's been all game, but no one's listening to me. If you guys want to lynch Jimmmm, fine, but I'm not helping. I think <20 percent we hit scum there.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 12, 2014, 09:13:54 pm
It's not fair to say "no one is listening you". Ichi has been the largest wagon most of the game! Just doesn't seem to go through.

I don't have a town read on Jimmm, but it feels like we can do better than just lynching the guy with the least posts. I find it impossible to read Jimmm with this level of activity.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 12, 2014, 09:20:19 pm
I would rather lynch Hydrad than Jimmmmm. But Jimmmmm either needs to play the game or replace out.

For me it goes

Ichi>Eevee>Hydrad> | faust>Jimmmmm>ashersky>silverspawn> | Witherweaver>me
scummiest                                            meh                                                towniest

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 12, 2014, 09:21:56 pm
Why is WW that towny?

It's incredible, we even remotely agree only on silverspawn and Ichi. Well, I guess I'd have ash somewhere in the middle too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 12, 2014, 09:26:12 pm
Why is WW that towny?

It's incredible, we even remotely agree only on silverspawn and Ichi. Well, I guess I'd have ash somewhere in the middle too.
My question exactly.

At least some more people are around, so silver's plan of having the game stall and proxy mislynching me hopefully won't come to fulfillment.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 13, 2014, 03:56:44 am
Quote
At least some more people are around, so silver's plan of having the game stall and proxy mislynching me hopefully won't come to fulfillment.

I think it was pretty obvious that I wasn't serious with that. So why are you treating it as though I was?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 06:04:57 am
It's not fair to say "no one is listening you". Ichi has been the largest wagon most of the game! Just doesn't seem to go through.

I don't have a town read on Jimmm, but it feels like we can do better than just lynching the guy with the least posts. I find it impossible to read Jimmm with this level of activity.

Well, on one hand, I agree with you about Jimmmmm, on the other hand, if his level of activity remains like that, we will never be able to get a read on him, which is problematic.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 06:06:00 am
Eevee, you're not voting. Who do you want lynched?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 06:07:07 am
this could honestly be a scum slip. I'm not sure it is, but it could be. I already thought you were scum before though.

This is scummy... no way that was a scumslip.

Vote: silverspawn let's try this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 06:08:39 am
Ash is also incredibly quiet this game... he's back from VLA now, right?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 06:10:48 am
I'm not loving a Hydrad lynch. He's new-ish, not particularly scummy, and I feel that if he's scum, we are much more likely to catch him eventually than we are to catch, say, Jimmmmm.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 13, 2014, 06:49:45 am
Ash is also incredibly quiet this game... he's back from VLA now, right?

Yeah.  I put Jimmmmm to L-1 most recently.

I like vote: silverspawn

This game has been weird.  I think a flip and night would be helpful.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 13, 2014, 08:23:17 am
Quote
no way that was a scumslip.

no? Why not?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 11:14:28 am
Quote
no way that was a scumslip.

no? Why not?

Why would it be? The sentence, as formulated, makes perfect sense coming from town.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 13, 2014, 11:23:25 am
just to make sure we're talking about the same thing

this sentence
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
makes perfect sense for town?

well I know I would never post it as town. But my perception is different from others, you thought I scum slipped in GoT mafia (well not you because you were modding), and I thought that was completely insane. I could see myself using this sentence if you cut the "as town" part. Or using a different time. But as is, i could see it being scum who didn't think enough for one moment.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 13, 2014, 11:29:47 am
question for silverspawn voters: do you think he's mafia or SK? Because mostly we've been talking about him as a possible SK because otherwise his day 1 VT claim seems too bold.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 13, 2014, 11:40:32 am
just to make sure we're talking about the same thing

this sentence
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
makes perfect sense for town?

well I know I would never post it as town. But my perception is different from others, you thought I scum slipped in GoT mafia (well not you because you were modding), and I thought that was completely insane. I could see myself using this sentence if you cut the "as town" part. Or using a different time. But as is, i could see it being scum who didn't think enough for one moment.

I'm basically saying as town I have had those thoughts. So it makes sense for you to do it as town also. I don't really understand why that doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 11:49:37 am
just to make sure we're talking about the same thing

this sentence
Quote
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
makes perfect sense for town?

well I know I would never post it as town. But my perception is different from others, you thought I scum slipped in GoT mafia (well not you because you were modding), and I thought that was completely insane. I could see myself using this sentence if you cut the "as town" part. Or using a different time. But as is, i could see it being scum who didn't think enough for one moment.

Well, the "as town" part must be in there, since it is a response to someone finding that kind of thing scummy; if you don't write "as town" here, it just stops making sense as a response. And what's that about the time? You're proposing

"I have many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it."

which is okay I guess, but I understand that you'd want to specify that these you not the thoughts you're having right now.

PPE Hydrad
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 11:50:08 am
question for silverspawn voters: do you think he's mafia or SK? Because mostly we've been talking about him as a possible SK because otherwise his day 1 VT claim seems too bold.
[/quote

I think he's scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 13, 2014, 11:51:51 am
Quote fail.

What I want to say is, I don't really know how to differentiate between SK and mafia before we've had a flip to look for partners. Why is the VT claim bolder for mafia than it is for the SK?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 13, 2014, 11:58:24 am
the VT claim is mostly reasonable as a VT
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2014, 12:00:18 pm
Eevee, you're not voting. Who do you want lynched?
I could have sworn I was on IG. I would prefer WW, but he doesn't seem viable.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2014, 12:02:05 pm
silverspawn is like my least favorite lynch after my own.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 13, 2014, 12:37:08 pm
Quote fail.

What I want to say is, I don't really know how to differentiate between SK and mafia before we've had a flip to look for partners. Why is the VT claim bolder for mafia than it is for the SK?

I actually don't know. People were saying it before, but now I'm thinking about it I don't really get it. ash?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 13, 2014, 01:18:22 pm
Quote
At least some more people are around, so silver's plan of having the game stall and proxy mislynching me hopefully won't come to fulfillment.

I think it was pretty obvious that I wasn't serious with that. So why are you treating it as though I was?
I wasn't 100% sure you were joking. People have made some serious arguments this game that last minute lynches can be good because there's little time for scum to manipulate things. As it stands, I probably will be lynched if the game goes close to the deadline without much development, so if it's my mislynch you really want, that's one way to get it.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2014, 04:40:10 pm
Had no internet at home yesterday.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2014, 04:47:25 pm
Ah I apologize for not posting more. I still like the Jimmm lynch the most.

as for the possible silver lining up lynches I don't think looking into it is a huge thing? I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.


Why don't you post  them?

Also, is the lack of agreement in plurality a scum slip?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2014, 04:48:10 pm
I'm not loving a Hydrad lynch. He's new-ish, not particularly scummy, and I feel that if he's scum, we are much more likely to catch him eventually than we are to catch, say, Jimmmmm.


Is there a good reason to think Jimmmmmmm is scum?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2014, 04:48:42 pm
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 13, 2014, 04:49:21 pm
Hah, keep making fun of it. Once the game is over, I'm sure Hydrad will admit that he did in fact slip there. Okay, I'm not sure. But it might happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 13, 2014, 04:51:18 pm
Hah, keep making fun of it. Once the game is over, I'm sure Hydrad will admit that he did in fact slip there. Okay, I'm not sure. But it might happen.

I believe both that Hydrad is scum and that this was not a scum slip.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 13, 2014, 05:52:26 pm
I believe in scumslips, but Hydrad's post was not one.

He could still be scum, but not due to that post.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 13, 2014, 07:10:06 pm
Had no internet at home yesterday.
Ok. What lynch do you prefer best right now?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 14, 2014, 02:37:57 am
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?

That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 14, 2014, 08:36:47 am
Vote Count 2.4

Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (3): jotheonah, silverspawn, Eevee
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): faust, ashersky

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 14, 2014, 09:25:41 am
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?

That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?

Yeah, I was just wondering if you had something that indicated to you that he was scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 14, 2014, 05:14:39 pm
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?

That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?

Yeah, I was just wondering if you had something that indicated to you that he was scum.

Well, his earlier attack on me felt weird... but that's that only thing, really.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 14, 2014, 06:04:22 pm
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?

That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?

Yeah, I was just wondering if you had something that indicated to you that he was scum.

Well, his earlier attack on me felt weird... but that's that only thing, really.

In what way was it an attack??
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 14, 2014, 11:37:50 pm
The Deadline's coming up very soon (approximately 1 day I think). Everyone should be thinking about who they really want to lynch today. I know that some (silver and joth especially) very much so want to lynch me. I of course do not want to be lynched today and so far Jimmmmm has done very little to make me think he is town. In recent games, I find that a lot of people are lurking more as scum and getting away with it for a surprising amount of time. I'm still happy with my vote on him, but will also consider alternative wagons.

At any rate, I'm going to bed and have class tomorrow, although I should be around for the deadline. And I might be able to check in before class tomorrow. So, I leave you all with my imploration to please consider everything that has occurred this game before auto-lynching me.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 12:14:46 am
popsquiz:

Would like to lynch: silverspawn, jimmmm, witherweaver
informative lynch: ichi, joth, eevee
null: hydrad, faust


Everyone else could do this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 01:08:01 am
Okay, everyone needs to take responsibility and we need to get a lynch through.


Want to lynch: IG, WW

Would lynch: joth, maaaaybe ash

No opinion: Jimmm, maaaaybe ash

Would actively oppose lynching: silverspawn, faust, Hydrad


All rows are in the order of certainty.

I feel my vote is best served on IG because not enough people want WW (or joth), but if that's mistaken, those wagons have my vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:08:25 am
want: Hydrad, IG
okay with: Jimmmm, Eevee, WW
won't lynch: ash, faust, joth

I was calling Eevee towny before, but I might be fooled too easily. Though, he's not really up for debate anyway, so that doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 15, 2014, 07:05:32 am
Want to lynch: WW, silverspawn, Jimmmmm

Would lynch: Hydrad, joth, ash

Won't lynch: Eevee, IG
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 15, 2014, 07:32:21 am
Vote Count 2.4

Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (3): jotheonah, silverspawn, Eevee
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): faust, ashersky

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.

That's in 12 hours!

admin note: I may or may not be on at deadline.  If not, you can expect a flip by 10:00PM forum time (unless it happens sooner)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 08:04:48 am
That's three for WW so far...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 08:36:10 am
I'll be available to move my vote for the next 7-8 hours.

We need to coordinate a lynch. Everyone should move their vote accordingly.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 08:44:46 am
Would lynch: Ichi

that's my list.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 08:45:58 am
nah, I'm just kidding. I'll post a real one.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 08:49:47 am
want to lynch very much: Ichi
would be ok if the lynch ends up being: Hydrad, Eevee, Jimmmmm
would be less ok lynching: ash, faust
won't lynch: me, Witherweaver, silverspawn
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 09:07:31 am
I think hydrad may be happening

vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 15, 2014, 09:11:58 am
I'm around now, off to bed soon and probably won't be around at deadline.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 09:12:57 am
Then move your vote off of ash
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 15, 2014, 09:13:54 am
I'm around now, off to bed soon and probably won't be around at deadline.

Any reads?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 15, 2014, 09:20:21 am
FYI, I'm busy for another ~5 hours, will then move my vote where it seems best, and check in again before I go to sleep.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 15, 2014, 09:20:40 am
Then move your vote off of ash

Why off of ash in particular?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 15, 2014, 09:21:20 am
Then move your vote off of ash

Why off of ash in particular?

I don't think your vote is on anyone else currently ;)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 09:21:48 am
Then move your vote off of ash

Why off of ash in particular?
Because deadline is in 10 hours and ash isn't getting lynched.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 09:22:13 am
I think hydrad may be happening

vote: Hydrad

See this is exactly what I didn't want to see happening. Stick to your guns, silver! Let's make Ichi the default lynch!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 09:26:32 am
I think hydrad may be happening

vote: Hydrad

See this is exactly what I didn't want to see happening. Stick to your guns, silver! Let's make Ichi the default lynch!

I think Hydrad was on more lists. That's the only reason.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 09:30:08 am
Good: Hydrad, Ichi
Meh: Jimmm, Ash, Faust, Silver
Medium Meh: Eevee,
Bad: Joth

Is that everyone?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 15, 2014, 09:32:41 am
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 09:33:12 am
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi

well then I'll

vote: Ichi

aswell
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 09:33:15 am
What about Hydrad's behavior here differs from all the other times he has been mislynched?

I feel dumb defending him because most of my townread on him stems from almost everyone else wanting to lynch him for seemingly no reason.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 09:33:29 am
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi

For whys?!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 09:34:00 am
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi

For whys?!
Why Hydrad? Serious question, has there even been a case?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 09:34:12 am
L-1

I didn't think it would be that close. Whew. don't hammer.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 09:35:22 am
L-1

I didn't think it would be that close. Whew. don't hammer.
I agree with the principle, but it's pretty likely Ichi isn't a pr here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 09:43:21 am
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi

For whys?!
Why Hydrad? Serious question, has there even been a case?

He is the scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 09:44:17 am
I'm pretty sure I've typed it up before in response to someone asking (Faust I think).  Also he's been very absent from this game in particular, which doesn't happen for him.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 09:52:16 am
Not sold. :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 09:54:50 am
^ Scum partner :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 10:07:32 am
I'm here at work. I'll do the list when I'm on break of who I want to lynch.

also sorry WW. I guess you can't really believe me at this time but I'm posting less because my work schedule changed and I havn't been able to be online as much while at work. I'm still trying to be a part of all the discussions though. But this might be more how I play for a bit unless my work changes times again.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 10:18:21 am
Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 10:34:43 am
Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?

I'll give it a go. Letting Ichi get away and last-minute lynching Hydrad feels extremely reminiscent of the ending of day 1 to me and I have no reason to believe it will end differently.

Someone being on most everybody's "would lynch" list is a pretty good indication they're town anyway.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 11:20:09 am
ok here is my list

want to lynch: Jimmmm, WW
would lynch: faust, joth
don't know: eevee, asher, silver?
oppose: IG, silver?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 11:21:47 am
yea so, let's just do Ichi. He is at L-1.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 11:24:03 am
Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?

I'll give it a go. Letting Ichi get away and last-minute lynching Hydrad feels extremely reminiscent of the ending of day 1 to me and I have no reason to believe it will end differently.

Someone being on most everybody's "would lynch" list is a pretty good indication they're town anyway.

I'm not sure Hydrad is on everybody's "would lynch" list.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 01:08:13 pm
I am a town Psychologist.

I diagnosed Ashersky last night and was told he does not have the capability to kill.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 01:15:08 pm
Hmm.. makes the resistance to claiming on Day 1 make some sense.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 02:46:29 pm
why investigate ashersky?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 02:49:36 pm
oh man, I just re-read the setup and the SK is 2-shot investigative immune, which is crazy powerful.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 02:53:04 pm
why investigate ashersky?
He's probably the hardest person for me to read in this game, and I think he's a very strong town player especially when people don't doubt his alignment. This doesn't completely clear him, but it mostly does to me.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 02:54:15 pm
baaah I'm not sure whether to believe this claim. it's actually a pretty good one.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 02:55:41 pm
I think I believe Ichi.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 03:03:14 pm
say more
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 03:06:20 pm
Mafia does have fakeclaims (-> setup), so there is no reason why it could not be made up. But it's a pretty strong role, so I'd be okay with not lynching him today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 03:07:36 pm
I have to go to class like right now. I can be around close to the deadline (starting around 6:20 FT when I get out of class), but only on my phone.
Not 100% sure where to put my vote at the moment, I still like a Jimmmmm lynch--although silverspawn has been pretty suspicious to me as well.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 03:08:25 pm
Me or Ichi? 

Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe.  But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1?  Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later.  I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town.  I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later."  That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies.  Ichi has been scum, like, once?

Investigating Ash makes sense.. it's probably what I would do here, unless I had reason to do something different based on how Day 1 went.  Especially this game, Ash is showing nothing (to me) that looks like scum!Ash or town!Ash, so I'd definitely want to know. 

PPE: 2
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 03:10:38 pm
Quote
Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe.  But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1?  Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later.  I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town.  I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later."  That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies.  Ichi has been scum, like, once?

This is a good point.

unvote

If Ichi is not scum, that makes me feel worse about the Hydrad lynch too. So, at this point, maybe Jimmm is the best option.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 03:12:27 pm
Why?  Because Hydrad was defending Ichi?  That could easily happen with scum!Hydrad and town!Ichi.  In fact it's more likely than scum!Hydrad and scum!Ichi.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 03:17:25 pm
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 03:17:46 pm
Nevermind what I said. I thought Hydrad switched from the Ichi wagon day1, but he actually didn't, he was never on it. The point against him (in addition to the fact that he plays differently) was how he sneaked onto the XP, and that still applies.

for some reaosn this game is confusing. I also keep almost switching up IG and XP. It was so much easier before XP changed his avatar.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 03:20:45 pm
By the way... I mmight not be around for the deadline too. I didn't even consider that because I used to have time all the time for the past 2 months, but now the semester has started

*checks time*

Oh yea, I'm absolutely not here for the deadline. There is no way I can stay up that long.

So... Hydrad or Jimmm? It'd be great if we could do one of them.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 03:22:07 pm
vote: Hydrad

That's L-3. He only has two votes (WW and me)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 03:22:58 pm
vote: Hydrad

WW makes some good points. We can worry about IG tomorrow if he survives the night.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 03:23:54 pm
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 03:24:40 pm
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)

Jimmm and you are my first 2 ideas. :)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 03:25:07 pm
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)

Jimmm and you are my first 2 ideas. :)

Any good ideas?

Why Jimmmmmmmmm?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 03:25:39 pm
WW I will say you are acting weird. it feels like you avoid any questions I ask of you this game and only answer if someone else prompts you too.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 03:26:36 pm
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)

Jimmm and you are my first 2 ideas. :)

Any good ideas?

Why Jimmmmmmmmm?

POE mainly. most people here I have a decent towny vibe from. I think the chances Jimmm is scum is extremely high from this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 03:44:21 pm
Are you referring to these questions?

WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.

You probably don't want a response, because the response is that these are kind of standard scum retaliations to someone suspecting you.

"Do you have any ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum?" sounds a lot like "I've been doing a great job distancing myself from my scum partners, so just try to make an argument there!"

But I can respond:

I have tunneled people hard before, by the way.  In fact, I usually do.

I'm obviously considering other people can be scum.  In fact, they have to.  You know, given that there has to be more than one. 

I have zero ideas of who your partners could be.  Well, not Ichi, I think.  Jimmmm is a possibility.  If you're scum then right now you need to get traction on someone else.  Do you choose two town players or a town and a partner?  My standard scum thing my first couple games was to keep one town and one partner in my "I want to lynch these guys!" list. The second is risky but helps you somewhat in the case that one of you flips.  Both Jimmmm and myself are probably equally possible to get lynched based on people's preferences, so you have the choice of which one to pursue.  Of course you don't actually want Jimmm to flip in this case, but then again you aren't actually voting for him. 

Jimmmm is somewhat less likely since he's in more serious danger of getting lynched.  I would only keep my partner on the "I want to lynch" when they're in a pretty safe position.  Of course this is very transparent once someone looks at it, so I probably wouldn't do it now.  You might, though.  So I'd put Jimmm at slightly less likely to be partner.

Ash is possible because he's listed you as so very, very null.  Can Ash be Mafia and turn up unable to kill?  I'm not sure. 

Eevee looks good based on his soft aversion to your wagon.

Not sure who else.  Really this kind of analysis is done after the flip, not before.  And I don't recall a  lot of instances where town that is in danger of being lynched really asks for this.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 04:01:56 pm
ah well I guess I was slightly reffering to a few days ago too. when I would ask you things and you wouldn't answer untill someone else promted. I'm ok with you not answering all the time I just found it interesting.

Also thanks for letting me know how you see it though.

I'm just worried now though that since there isn't much time left in the day I'm just going to get lynched because of no other options and then we are at mylo tomorrow.

I really think we should do Jimmm
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:08:29 pm
guys, I need to go soon. Can someone tell me if I should rather put my vote on Jimmm or Hydrad?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:13:14 pm
I say Hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:15:18 pm
Let me check the lists

Hydrad: faust, WW,

jimmmm: ash, faust, joth

and some more meh's and middles leaning towards Jimmm. It would not be bad. What Jimmm is doing is not good for town. That's kind of a policy argument though.

Quote
I say Hydrad.
well duh
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:16:17 pm
there is more support for Jimmm atm though. I mean, I think I like Hydrad more, also because it would reward my reread. But if I put my vote on Hydrad and then go afk, and that doesn't happen, bad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:17:37 pm
Is it scummy from me if I say something like, Hydrad claim or I put my vote on you before I go afk?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:19:31 pm
vote: Jidrammmm
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 04:20:23 pm
I'm around until deadline.  I believe Ichi enough that he should not be lynched for days.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: faust on October 15, 2014, 04:21:39 pm
Well, that was unnecessary.

Vote: Jimmmmm for now.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:22:06 pm
Hydrad, claim or I put my vote on you before I go afk. You got 15 minutes.

I mean, what are the chances that both Hydrad and Ichi are PR's? pretty low. If hydrad claims a PR, chances are he is just scum. If he is a VT, we don't give any information away. And we want to lynch hydrad, so he will have to claim anyway.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 04:27:12 pm
Hydrad, claim or I put my vote on you before I go afk. You got 15 minutes.

I mean, what are the chances that both Hydrad and Ichi are PR's? pretty low. If hydrad claims a PR, chances are he is just scum. If he is a VT, we don't give any information away. And we want to lynch hydrad, so he will have to claim anyway.

ok I can claim if others think its a good idea. What do other people think? should I claim?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:31:41 pm
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK?  Someone said it was SK.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 04:33:15 pm
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK?  Someone said it was SK.

I think SK has 2shot JOAT also.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:35:47 pm
you got like 2 min or so left.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 04:38:39 pm
VT
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:39:22 pm
Mafia Goon

okay
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 04:40:20 pm
Mafia Goon

okay

did you want me to make something up?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:40:29 pm
Mafia Goon

okay

I see what you did there...
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:41:27 pm
well this sucks now I still don't know whom to vote for. My gut says Hydrad is scum, I also want Hydrad to be scum because I then I'd be right about my analysis of his behavior, but at the same time, I don't want to let Jimmm get away with doing almost nothing, like he did in Zelda Mafia.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:42:22 pm
would scum!Hydrad claim VT? WW, any strong opinion here?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:42:51 pm
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK?  Someone said it was SK.

I think SK has 2shot JOAT also.

Okay, one of the shots is investigation immune.  But he can only use that once.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:43:18 pm
would scum!Hydrad claim VT? WW, any strong opinion here?

You did just tell him "I'm not believing you if you claim a PR". 

Even if you didn't, we probably wouldn't believe him if he claimed a PR.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:44:25 pm
Quote
You did just tell him "I'm not believing you if you claim a PR". 

oh I did didn't I? that probably wasn't the smartest thing I did this game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: silverspawn on October 15, 2014, 04:46:46 pm
well okay so...

vote: Hydrad

I just really need to go to sleep.

If we lynch him, at least we only lose another VT
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 04:47:47 pm
guys I may have been hasty in my town read on silverspawn
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 04:54:17 pm
guys I may have been hasty in my town read on silverspawn

I have been getting a bit of a bad feeling as well.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 04:57:39 pm
my class is just about to start.  I will be back in 1.5 hours for sure.  I could do a silvers pawn lynch today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:07:41 pm
Can someone show me where mafia have fake claims?  Some of you were stating this, but it isn't in the setup post.  Sounds like a scumslip to me.
Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:09:39 pm
Mechanics:
- All roles will be used according to mafiascum specification unless otherwise noted below.
- Daystart
- Mafia JOAT is an option of Strongman and Ninja (each can only be used once) and is not an assigned role, instead it is universal for the mafia team. But is instead a role that any alive mafia player can use it while performing the night kill.
- Mafia Investigation Immune is universal. It will return results of "Not Goon" to Goon Cops, "Not Killed" to Detectives, "Can't Kill" to Psychologists and "Didn't Target Anyone" to Watchers.
- Traitor does not know the identity of Mafia Partners unless it is added on as a bonus. Traitor will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in a PM if that add-on is selected.
- Mafia does not know the identity of the Traitor unless it is added on as a bonus. The Mafia will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in their quicktopic if that add-on is selected.
- Flavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
- If the Mafia target the Traitor with a NK, the Traitor will not die unless mafia is using a strongman kill. Otherwise, the Traitor will be recruited and become a Mafia Roleblocker and be given access to the quicktopic.
- The Traitor can Roleblock a Mafia NK.
- If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive.
- Goon Cop will return results of Goon or Not Goon.
- Detective will return results of having killed or not killed.
- Psychlogist will return results of being capable of killing or not capable. But if a kill has been performed previously, the result will be falsified. Traitors are not capable of killing until they have been converted into Mafia Roleblockers
- Roles cannot target themselves.
- Roles will not be indicative of alignment, except for one exception that will not be disclosed. All other roles will be rolled randomly.
- Mafia will have fakeclaims.

Title: Re: Mafia ?? : Silo Mafia - Signups Open - Setup Coming Soon
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 05:10:17 pm
- Mafia will have fakeclaims.

BUt I assumed that meant flavor claims.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:11:13 pm
Huh, uh... why would you assume that?

I assumed it meant roles, because this looks like a setup where it's very hard for Mafia to fake claim a PR.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:12:05 pm
Oh.  Thanks.

Do you think that means roles, though?  Or flavor?

Matrix setups are supposed to be semi-open, in that no one knows the exact setup right off the bat.  A fake roleclaim (like Psych, for example) only works if it is actually possible in the setup.  But if it is possible in the setup, then a townie has the role, so the fakeclaim gets counterclaimed.  If it isn't possible, no one has it, and when a few others flip, the fake claimer is caught.

So I don't see how mafia can have fake role claims.  I think that means flavor claims.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:12:59 pm
Huh, uh... why would you assume that?

I assumed it meant roles, because this looks like a setup where it's very hard for Mafia to fake claim a PR.

I just answered this.

Mafia have a safe claim -- VT.  There's plenty of VTs in the setup.  If they want to claim a PR to survive, they claim one they know is NOT in the game based on whatever add-ons they got.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:13:43 pm
Jimmmmm (3): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust
Hydrad (3): Witherweaver, silverspawn, joth
Ichimaru Gin (2): Eevee, jimmmmm
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
silverspawn (1): ashersky


This is the latest vote count.  Faust just left silver, and joth and others seem to be wary.  I think we could make that happen.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:15:05 pm
Mafia does have fakeclaims (-> setup), so there is no reason why it could not be made up. But it's a pretty strong role, so I'd be okay with not lynching him today.

Me or Ichi? 

Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe.  But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1?  Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later.  I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town.  I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later."  That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies.  Ichi has been scum, like, once?

Investigating Ash makes sense.. it's probably what I would do here, unless I had reason to do something different based on how Day 1 went.  Especially this game, Ash is showing nothing (to me) that looks like scum!Ash or town!Ash, so I'd definitely want to know. 

PPE: 2



These are the two posts that mention fakeclaims.  Either they are town slips, not realizing how a matrix setup is supposed to work, or scumslips because they actually know how the fake claims worked.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:17:17 pm
Okay, I guess that makes sense. 

Quote
To clarify here are the 8 options:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune

So each Mafia setup has two possibilities.  They can't know which one they're in until something flips.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:18:13 pm
Mafia does have fakeclaims (-> setup), so there is no reason why it could not be made up. But it's a pretty strong role, so I'd be okay with not lynching him today.

Me or Ichi? 

Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe.  But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1?  Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later.  I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town.  I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later."  That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies.  Ichi has been scum, like, once?

Investigating Ash makes sense.. it's probably what I would do here, unless I had reason to do something different based on how Day 1 went.  Especially this game, Ash is showing nothing (to me) that looks like scum!Ash or town!Ash, so I'd definitely want to know. 

PPE: 2



These are the two posts that mention fakeclaims.  Either they are town slips, not realizing how a matrix setup is supposed to work, or scumslips because they actually know how the fake claims worked.

Mine was specifically founded upon the line "Mafia will have fakeclaims." line in the setup, which I took to mean roles.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:20:32 pm
Mine was specifically founded upon the line "Mafia will have fakeclaims." line in the setup, which I took to mean roles.

Well, I mean, that's what you have to say, right?

Generally speaking, I think I believe you.  But you are scary, so it could be a planned townslip for sure.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 05:20:54 pm
I prefer a silverspawn lynch at this point.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:27:55 pm
Mine was specifically founded upon the line "Mafia will have fakeclaims." line in the setup, which I took to mean roles.

Well, I mean, that's what you have to say, right?

Generally speaking, I think I believe you.  But you are scary, so it could be a planned townslip for sure.

Well probably, yes, but it's true.  I was specifically thinking about how to consider claims this game, I think back during Day 1 when (I think) Ichi indicated he wouldn't claim (after the part where he thought he was lynched but was still the candidate).  I thought maybe scum wouldn't want to claim because they couldn't safely claim a PR because they couldn't know what setup they're in.  And even if they did know what setup they're in, and they claim something not in that setup, a town having a certain PR (or combination) could prove that fake claim impossible.  So it seemed very dangerous.  So I looked at the setup post and saw the line about fake safeclaims and thought they had safe role claims.

Of course I guess there never has been a game where scum gets PRs to fake claim. 

So now that I think about it, my whole line of thinking was pretty wrong.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 05:44:57 pm
Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.

Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day1 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 15, 2014, 05:45:16 pm
Vote Count 2.5

Jimmmmm (3): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust
Hydrad (3): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn
Ichimaru Gin (2): Eevee, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (1): ashersky

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.

That's in less than 2 hours!

admin note: I may or may not be on at deadline.  If not, you can expect a flip by 10:00PM forum time (unless it happens sooner)
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 05:45:27 pm
I would rather not lynch silver today.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 05:52:59 pm
Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.

Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.

Huh?  Rly?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:03:54 pm
Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.

Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.

Huh?  Rly?
Well I don't like Hydrad, I'm very lukewarm about Jimmm and you or joth don't seem viable.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:04:55 pm
I understand IG is a long shot too, but there is the advantage that we verify his result if he flips town. I could see him being more aware and in control of the situation than he let on yesterday and now realizing fakeclaim is a strong play for scum (which it is, especially in a seemingly hopeless situation such as IG's).
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:05:36 pm
I would hate to throw my support behind a wagon I don't believe in, but I also understand having your vote somewhere where it doesn't count this close to the deadline is very bad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:06:30 pm
I understand IG is a long shot too, but there is the advantage that we verify his result if he flips town. I could see him being more aware and in control of the situation than he let on yesterday and now realizing fakeclaim is a strong play for scum (which it is, especially in a seemingly hopeless situation such as IG's).

the things you say make sense and also pretty much kill my theory that you two are on a team together.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:08:57 pm
I understand IG is a long shot too, but there is the advantage that we verify his result if he flips town. I could see him being more aware and in control of the situation than he let on yesterday and now realizing fakeclaim is a strong play for scum (which it is, especially in a seemingly hopeless situation such as IG's).

the things you say make sense and also pretty much kill my theory that you two are on a team together.
That theory did need to be killed, so I'm glad to hear!
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 06:13:54 pm
I can't see Ichi being a good lynch today.  I mean.. if he's not really the psychologist then:

1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune

We're in one of the four left.  Someone could have a PR that disprove this, right?  If I'm a 1-shot BP townie, then we do not have a psychologist, for instance.  That takes care of two setups.  Maybe that's all that can be cleared with one piece of knowledge.  With two pieces, I'm sure more can be cleared. 

More flips or a mass claim can probably go pretty far with verifying Ichi's claim.  Ash?  You're the setup plan guy.

Either way.. doesn't make sense to lynch Ichi without more info, I think.  My hunch now is that he's town and telling the truth.

Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 06:20:27 pm
ok class just let out.  I'm here with my vote.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:21:03 pm
we are not rushing a mass claim with 40 minutes left in the day
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:22:10 pm
how does everybody feel about faust?
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:23:39 pm
I was re-reading my own summary of my day 1 re-read and I noticed that faust egged on the XP lynch without actually voting.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:29:47 pm
no, this is crazy. I think we need to pick between Hydrad, Ichi, and Jimmmm.

Hydrad pros
A lot of low level scummy things
hasn't contributed a ton, so no big loss if town
claimed VT, so again no big loss if town

Hydrad cons
Just not quite feeling it

Ichi pros
Lynch would still be quite informational
has been pretty scummy a lot

Ichi cons
Claim seemed convincing
if true, claim is a powerful town role

Jimmmmm pros
Can't read him at all cause lurks, so having him out of the picture would be great
Could well be scum
again, no big loss
taking a stand against lurking seems good

Jimmmmm cons
Hasn't claimed, could be a good power role
Could vry well just be lurky town
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2014, 06:30:04 pm
ok, yeah, I'm good with Hydrad. This was a good exercise.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Hydrad on October 15, 2014, 06:30:20 pm
I'm ok with a faust lynch.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 06:30:45 pm
I'm pretty much perfectly aligned with Joth this game.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Ichimaru Gin on October 15, 2014, 06:31:46 pm
deadline in like 59 minutes.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:36:59 pm
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.

My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 06:37:09 pm
Well I'm not going to be on.  Leaving work now and I'm without my phone, so no mobile access. 

I'm staying on Hydrad.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Witherweaver on October 15, 2014, 06:37:45 pm
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.

My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/

Italic part feels like a very scummy thing to say.  It makes me think Jimmm is town and Eevee is scum.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:38:26 pm
Has anyone but me even reread Hydrad? He has been reasonably active (we've all been very active except for Jimm and maybe ash), and his posts are rich on content. The "scummy things" are just Hydrad things, unless you have something specific it's just the scummy vibe everyone in the world ever always gets from him for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:38:59 pm
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.

My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/

Italic part feels like a very scummy thing to say.  It makes me think Jimmm is town and Eevee is scum.
It sucks to be backed into a lynch you never believed in because none of the ones you do have enough support.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: Eevee on October 15, 2014, 06:39:18 pm
Compromises near the deadline, that's how scum save their partners.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 06:42:29 pm
I'm here.
Title: Re: Mafia 51: Silo (Wool) Mafia - Day 2 Start - PM for speccy
Post by: ashersky on October 15, 2014, 06:43:01 pm
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.

My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/