| xxxx | Column1 | Column2 | Column3 | Column4 | Add-On |
| Row1 | VT | Detective | 1-shot Commuter | Goon Cop | 1-shot Investigation Immune/SK |
| Row2 | Watcher | JK | VT | Psychologist | 2-shot JOAT |
| Row3 | 1-shot Bulletproof Townie | VT | JK | Bodyguard | Traitor Knows Mafia |
| Row4 | 1-shot Commuter | Psychologist | Detective | VT | Mafia Knows Traitor |
| Add-On | 2-shot JOAT | Mafia Knows Traitor/SK | TraitorKnows Mafia/SK | 1-shot Investigation Immune | xxxxxxx |
Also I should mention that this game will be unrunable without some sort of back up mod. There will likely be a few 1-2 day stretches where I won't have internet access and will need some assistance.I'm willing.
If anyone would be willing I would appreciate it! (aside from those who have already signed up to play)
/tag
This will be the first normal game of Forum Mafia without me in it!
/tag
This will be the first normal game of Forum Mafia without me in it!
did robzzz img dissapear for anyone else?
did robzzz img dissapear for anyone else?
I changed it! For the first time... ever. Hopefully new one is showing up.
I don't know how to feel about this.
Robz888, I suggest you sign up for a newbie game as a newcomer to forum mafia here. It'll help you get to know our style, and also the rules of the game. After that, you should try one of these invented ones.
That'll change once LOST mafia opens.Robz888, I suggest you sign up for a newbie game as a newcomer to forum mafia here. It'll help you get to know our style, and also the rules of the game. After that, you should try one of these invented ones.
No, he should just switch over to RMM instead of normal games. I have never played a RMM game with Robz. Of course, I can't play mafia right now because of work so that doesn't really matter.
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?
I am Donald, a Vanilla Townie.What the hell?
sup?
vote: fuzzyIf you look at my most recent games, I think you'll find I'm pretty clearly town, and on a winning streak to top that!
pretty clear scum play here from Eevee.
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?
would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?
i'm assuming SS was just joking?I don't think so. Lying maybe, but I don't think you joke about stuff like that (and get away with it).
oh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?
would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?
actually yeah, that would save us a whole heap of trouble if accurate.
Only one way to find out. . . ;Doh man, why you gotta VT claim silverspawn?
would you rather have me claim Mafia Goon?
actually yeah, that would save us a whole heap of trouble if accurate.
it's not. too bad.
What was your reason for claiming VT?
Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.What was your reason for claiming VT?
I don't think I want to answer that.
Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.What was your reason for claiming VT?
I don't think I want to answer that.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
What am I missing about the flavor, btw?I've heard a fair amount about the series but never actually read it.
Silverspawn, what you are doing will lead us down a dark route.Ok I am incredibly confused right now.
suddenly trying to change you meta or having a meta chance can sometimes be a first time scum thing. Just letting you know. I guess its nice of you to let us know before hand?The other side of the coin of course being "why would he direct the attention to himself like that if he was scum?".
I'm here. I might have a plan.
Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Unprompted early D1 VT claim? Not good. Vote: silverspawn
Unprompted early D1 VT claim? Not good. Vote: silverspawn
"Hey, Robz is thinking along the same lines as me. Oh wait."
What am I missing about the flavor, btw?
silverspawn was counting letters in C++, this definitely wasn't an accident from him.
I don't like the claim.
I do not understand this post at all. Why would he be lynched today if scum thinks he is lying?Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.What was your reason for claiming VT?
I don't think I want to answer that.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).
maybe scum thinks so too, i'll be lynched day one, and the NK flies out of the window for a newbie and a VT. profit.
<---- Haven't read the setup.
Oh wait. I see now. So he thinks its good because we'll either lynch him today and only lose a VT. Or scum will NK him because they think he's a lying PR and then we'll also only lose a VT.
One question I have about the setup.
What does the JK mean in the possible roles?
People need to be careful about this stuff.
xxxx Column1 Column2 Column3 Column4 Add-On Row1 VT Detective 1-shot Commuter Goon Cop 1-shot Investigation Immune/SK Row2 Watcher JK VT Psychologist 2-shot JOAT Row3 1-shot Bulletproof Townie VT JK Bodyguard Traitor Knows Mafia Row4 1-shot Commuter Psychologist Detective VT Mafia Knows Traitor Add-On 2-shot JOAT Mafia Knows Traitor/SK TraitorKnows Mafia/SK 1-shot Investigation Immune xxxxxxx
To clarify here are the 8 options:
1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
People need to be careful about this stuff.
this may have been an intentional slip to obscure his role.
I thought you meant that when you called it a ridiculous newbie play.
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?
Lynch all Ponies!
now that everyone has expressed his disapproval of my claim, what do we do?
Lynch all Ponies!
good thing I'm a vampire bat
I don't think I want to answer that
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)
I do have to say silverspawn's play reminds my of my own play in Dynasty Warriors. Good times.
Also find everyone stating "I didn't read the setup" suspicious. Man, if you're town, just go read it instead of boasting of your ignorance. And as scum, it's a way to obscure the fact that you have been analyzing the setup all N0.
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)
I think it's very believable for scum!you to press the issue.
aren't you scum in most of your games anyway?
I think I want you to answer that and that I'm not all that concerned with your feelings :)
I think it's very believable for scum!you to press the issue.
aren't you scum in most of your games anyway?
The times, they are a-changin'
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"
The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"So I see we agree on silver then.
The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
I do have to say silverspawn's play reminds my of my own play in Dynasty Warriors. Good times.
Also find everyone stating "I didn't read the setup" suspicious. Man, if you're town, just go read it instead of boasting of your ignorance. And as scum, it's a way to obscure the fact that you have been analyzing the setup all N0.
What happened in Dynasty Warriors?
Was ash scum?No. He was town.
Depends! What are you thinking?Hey, let's play "Guess which mafia player I am?"So I see we agree on silver then.
The clue is: "I'm doing something antitown and refusing to divulge my reasons while calling everyone who presses me on the issue scum."
Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.
PPE: 7
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.
PPE: 7
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.
Vote: silverspawn
ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.My vote was about as close to a policy vote as I've ever done. It's confusing as heck having a fake Robz running around.
Vote: silverspawn
ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.Then what do you think the explanation is?
Vote: Ichi
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.Then what do you think the explanation is?
Vote: Ichi
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)
I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?
I am not sheeping his argument.I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.Then what do you think the explanation is?
Vote: Ichi
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)
I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.
That should be obvious.. sheeping someone else's argument is standard scum; you're less accountable and less in the spotlight than the person that proposed it in the first place.
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.Then what do you think the explanation is?
Vote: Ichi
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)
I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.
Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad
PPE 5
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.
Vote: Ichi
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?
You don't seem to be thinking about silverspawn's potential reasons for his play very thoroughly.
Is your theory that he thought he could just get away with it no questions asked, and when he we asked for reasons he panicked and couldn't think of anything but "nope, not telling you!"?
omfg I hope this is a joke. Or you obviously did not read my last post.I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.Then what do you think the explanation is?
Vote: Ichi
And why are you voting me when I wasn't even the one that proposed the theory? (Which I still stand by)
I can't stand all these poor votes against me. I can't even argue against such bad reasons.
I do not think discussing that kind of stuff would be good.
I'm voting you because you're sheeping a particularly weakly-reasoned case, and are SK hunting.
I do not think discussing that kind of stuff would be good.In other words you're refusing to answer a perfectly good question. And remaining slippery with no opinions of your own, just attacking me to draw attention away from yourself.
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.
Silverspawn, how do you feel about Kant's categorical imperative?
Yes, that's the point of me voting for you.So the fact that ADK asked me what I thought of his case and I answered his question has no meaning to you whatsoever? I am not even voting silverspawn, as everyone is trying to pressure me to do, so the term "sheeping" is even more incorrect.
Yes, that's the point of me voting for you.So the fact that ADK asked me what I thought of his case and I answered his question has no meaning to you whatsoever? I am not even voting silverspawn, as everyone is trying to pressure me to do, so the term "sheeping" is even more incorrect.
Ok. Well I guess there's no point in me responding to any more accusation against me, since no one actually reads anything--or if they do, they forget it the next instant.
Where's Volt when I need him?
PPE: :P
Silver's vote could be opportunistic, Eevee's was certainly not. Mine obviously not. Faust maybe.I meant to edit that last part out (only in reference to your case, some other votes are obviously bad).
Anyway, stop saying the votes on you are garbage. They aren't.
Ichi is in a bad spot here. Things are just not going his way. And it started so nice, someone else did something crazy, and noone had a reason to talk about him. And now suddenly he is the center of attention.I've been in this spot before (many times actually). I hope my sarcasm came through, but maybe not cause internet and all.
Ichi, you're trying to hard to not take the case against you seriously, while at the same time taking it in fact very seriously, and trying hard to defend yourself. Pressing the case against me could have worked, but not anymore. You played yourself into a corner.
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.
Also i will say that I'm not going to vote ichi. This defense seems almost the same in dice mafia when he was suspected day 1 as town there too.
I'm dead!!!Also i will say that I'm not going to vote ichi. This defense seems almost the same in dice mafia when he was suspected day 1 as town there too.
Feels constructed to me.
So you can tell us what you'll flip then?Is this a joke?
Wasn't a joke.I am not telling you anything.
Wasn't a joke.I am not telling you anything.
Please kill WW after my flip everyone.
PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?
Faust voted Hydrad. Also, Eevee's was out-of-syntax. Not sure if it even counts.
I had no idea that was L1. No one announced it! wait was that the hammer?I'm not sure now. I counted 6 votes and was almost positive no one unvoted me or changed.
faust, WW, Eevee, Joth, and me. that's five. who else did you vote?I had no idea that was L1. No one announced it! wait was that the hammer?I'm not sure now. I counted 6 votes and was almost positive no one unvoted me or changed.
It's understandable given that no one announced anything and just kept foolishly voting me in single posts. Less scum on you and more on silver, WW, and faust.
PPE: Yeah. Looks like I was right and I am hammered.
L-1 now that WW unvoted?
That means I was hammered.
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.
PPE: 7
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.
Vote: silverspawn
ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
I'm a little tempted to switch back to Ichi, the whole "I've never been mislynched!" thing is something he pulled as scum in stack the deck. I want to wait for people who missed this hot mess to chime in, though.
PPE: silver I assume you mean Ichi, not joth. Is joth your scumpartner?
Neither do SK'sI'm a little tempted to switch back to Ichi, the whole "I've never been mislynched!" thing is something he pulled as scum in stack the deck. I want to wait for people who missed this hot mess to chime in, though.
PPE: silver I assume you mean Ichi, not joth. Is joth your scumpartner?
*Ichi
Vanilla Townies do not have scum partners.
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Ok. So I'm still alive.
I hope everyone learned a lesson today.
WW, did you know how many votes were really on me when you asked me to claim?
PPE: a bunch
Wasn't a joke.I am not telling you anything.
Please kill WW after my flip everyone.
PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?
Ooh. SK silver playing town.QuoteI hope everyone learned a lesson today.Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.
Ooh. SK silver playing town.QuoteI hope everyone learned a lesson today.Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.
PPE: silver PR hunting.
Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.
I don't care if you guys kill me now.I don't believe you. I don't think anyone does.
What's confusing about it?Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.
This confuses me, too.. right after he thought Joth hammered him.
You taking advantage of my thinking I was hammered to try and PR hunt.Ooh. SK silver playing town.QuoteI hope everyone learned a lesson today.Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.
I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.
PPE: silver PR hunting.
Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.
What's amazing about that at all?
"Please kill WW after I am dead", without any sort of "well you guys lynched town, good job", especially when WW wasn't the one who hammered you, looks a lot like scum trying to sow confusion.At this point, I don't think you care what I would have said--you would have found a way to make it scummy.
Vote: Ichimaru
This is L-2.
I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?How is people making single posts voting for me with no explanation townie?
I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
[/end sarcasm]
Some thoughts.
1. I understand that many people view my defensiveness as scummy behavior. From my point of view, when I'm town, and I see what I perceive as poor votes on me, I am very reactive to them. I feel that scum is trying to cast suspicion on me and without my intervention will be picked up by others even when it has no basis at all--and this has happened in the past. Unfortunately, in my attempts to counter the numerous unexplained, unwarranted votes on me, it convinces other people that I am scum. Even more so, my reactive posts actually distract from the points that I am trying to make and the players I believe to be scum, furthering my annoyance.
2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.
3. In regards to me claiming, I was suspicious when WW pressed me to claim--and since there was no vote count to refer to, I was aware that my conclusion that I had been lynched might be incorrect. As such, I refused to claim. Arguments surrounding what town/scum would have done are mostly worthless in my opinion. At that time, I was incredulous that town had botched things so badly and (I thought) hammered me so early on in D1. Starting D2 with 2 townies dead and virtually no information regarding the lynch is pretty bad. So I hope that people understand why I have been harping so much about people voting me without any reasoning. If you are determined to mislynch me, I at least want town to get information out of it.
4. At this point, I am incredibly suspicious of ADK and silver in particular. I know that I have largely distracted from silver's claim, but it is something that I would like to discuss more. In regards to ADK, his "cases" against me are nothing more than ill-disguised wagon jumping. In particular, his assertion that my claiming town would have changed his read on me is ludicrously illogical. Scum!anyone never claims scum, even at the end, so saying that would have made me townier is simply insane.
The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?
But please see silver's and joth's votes for examples of what I'm talking about.
unvote
I think it's important to consider the context of IG's posts. We were putting him under a lot of pressure, and he reacted in a certain way. A lot of people believe it's scummy. Still under pressure, he has made responses, and some people found those scummy.
After it was clear that he wasn't going to die right away, he's had time to breath. Relax, and think about what he wants to do next. His current defense should not be given the same weight as his prior posts, because it was something he had time to write and think about. Both scum!IG and town!IG could write such a post. Really, if you want to judge him, focus on his earlier posts. What he is writing now is nullish.
We have a lot of time left. Everyone should, at some point, reread the pressure phase and make a judgement. But for now, I don't see us getting anything useful out of him.
PPE 3
PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?No, but when you flip, it will be informational. :) Sheeping doesn't take away the information value, not at all. People took strong stances on you early, that's information.
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.
So why are you unvoting?
QuoteSo why are you unvoting?
If you reread my posts, you'll see that I never actually said I thought he was scummy, although I of course made it sound like it. I voted for him with no explanation at all, and the only goal was to produce reactions under heavy pressure. We got a lot of that, way more than I expected. But now he's going to be afk for several hours, and he's going to come back to the game with a completely different mindset.
tl;dr the reason for my vote no longer applies, so I'll remove it.
But does a different reason justify a vote?One of my first posts in this game stated that I plan to play very differently. A part of that is that I'm not going to share all of my thoughts as openly as I have in previous games.
2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.
Joth, I agree to an extent, but what if Ichi had been a powerful role? There are valid reasons for not hammering people without giving them a change to comment.
For the traitor I thought scum would try to hit them so that they are on a team? Or is that not powerful enough to lose a night kill I guess.
I will say, there were a few instances of SK hunting, which is uber scummy.Note that ADK was the one SK hunting and I even noted that. Right here.
I find this a little odd, since it's like SK hunting--but I think ADK's theory makes the most sense so far.
I too completely disagree with joth saying that derphammers or hammering someone when 2 players haven't even posted is a good idea. And I find his play so far to be quite scummy. Like why even try to argue that, all it does is give scum a free pass.Joth, I agree to an extent, but what if Ichi had been a powerful role? There are valid reasons for not hammering people without giving them a change to comment.
I disagree completely with joth.
Ichi, it's a bit problematic your reads seem all over the place. It kills some of your credibility you call everyone who suspects you obvious scum that. Just try to see it this way: More people voted for you than there are scum. Some of them are town. Try to address your points to them.
Meaningless post.It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.
I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
And of course it was a good post, he gave us his reads with reasons, and touched on his defensiveness in a rational manner.
And of course it was a good post, he gave us his reads with reasons, and touched on his defensiveness in a rational manner.
It was not a bad post. But I think IG is a good enough player to make a post like this as scum. There is nothing wrong with it, but I don't give him town points for it either.
Meaningless post.It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.
I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
I think, scum or town, his post was what people were looking for him to contribute.
Meaningless post.It's not an issue town really has to delve on today.
I think people are freaking out way too much over Sk hunting. If there is an SK, it's an issue for town too. It should be allowed for town to address that without getting instant scum points for it.
I don't see any problem discussing it today.
Generally, because SK hunting is considered such a classic scum-tell, I think scum will be so careful about it that it's not really a scum tell at all anymore, unless the scum is a noobie.
IG suspected me of being an SK. Is that okay?
Vote: Ichimaru for being even more over-the-top defensive than usual.
vote: ichimaru
Hating day 1 is a town tell for me. In James Bond I played day 1 totally differently from normal, got really into it.
Hating day 1 is a town tell for me. In James Bond I played day 1 totally differently from normal, got really into it.
You lost Jamed Bond, right?
I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.
That day is not today, my friend.I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.
One day we'll have to disagree on something.
It was public knowledge that Ichi wasn't hammered.. why would I try to get his role? I knew from the beginning that he was still alive.
I think it's pretty clear I wanted to get him to talk while he was under the impression that he was hammered so that he might slip something to reveal his alignment.
Well let me rephrase.. if I was scum trying to get town!Ichi's role, that would be very poorly done by me.
Again, not my scum play.Fortunately your town play has always been extremely pro-town. Makes it easier to hold you accountable the times you do something (debatably) anti-town.
Again, not my scum play.Fortunately your town play has always been extremely pro-town. Makes it easier to hold you accountable the times you do something (debatably) anti-town.
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.
Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad
PPE 5
What? Why?
But I'm assuming if you do something (debatably) anti-town thats something scum WW would have a higher chance then town WW?
PPE:1
But I'm assuming if you do something (debatably) anti-town thats something scum WW would have a higher chance then town WW?
PPE:1
Nope.
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?
This make sense to me. So, I'm not a competing view.also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?
Not exactly. Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on. My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.
My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for. I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway. And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.
So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using. I'm wondering if there are competing views.
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?
Not exactly. Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on. My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.
My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for. I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway. And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.
So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using. I'm wondering if there are competing views.
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
Glad to see some people getting my points on WW PR hunting. One thing that does give me pause is him basically admitting to it though. At the time I noted how amazed I was that he confessed to knowing I hadn't been hammered and pushing me to claim. So either he legitimately didn't see that as a scummy behavior, or there's some weird gambit going on.
Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
also asher you mentioned you might have a plan. But did that plan get scrapped when you decided it wasn't that worth to figure out the setup?
Not exactly. Basically no one was interested in discussing setup/theory, which is fine, as we had other things going on. My one question was how important anyone thinks it is to know which setup we're playing.
My argument is that we should generally be able to see if we have an SK since we'll have multiple kills, so that's not a reason to strive for. I don't think we care if the mafia team/traitor know each other, as we should just play the game seeking three scum anyway. And we can't really play around the possible JOAT anyway.
So on the face of it, even though I have a plan that I think probably gets us the setup, I don't think it's worth using. I'm wondering if there are competing views.
How do you mean?Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
What are your thoughts on it?
Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
How do you mean?Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
What are your thoughts on it?
Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?
There is not really any way to find out which row/column we are playing without some claims.Are you proposing a massclaim?
A VT doesn't help.
Of course, the PR's that we have can narrow down the possible options.
Also, if you did slip your PR, I think it would actually be better than had you been asked to claim at L-1. As long as we believed that you believed you were lynched, we'd accept your claim as true. Your claim at L-1 is pretty much up in the air, but scum knows if it's true.
Also, if you did slip your PR, I think it would actually be better than had you been asked to claim at L-1. As long as we believed that you believed you were lynched, we'd accept your claim as true. Your claim at L-1 is pretty much up in the air, but scum knows if it's true.
This actually happened in a game. I can't remember if that game is over yet or not.
Are you proposing a massclaim?No
How do you mean?Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
What are your thoughts on it?
Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?
How do you mean?Just checking in. Not a ton to say at the moment. I would like to discuss silver's claim more though.
What are your thoughts on it?
Regarding claiming, I certainly don't see any benefit from it right now.
You don't see any benefit from what, silver's claim?
I think he thinks my plan is "claiming." Interesting thought process.
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.
At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.
PPE: 2
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.
At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.
PPE: 2
My scumpartner Yuma was still alive at that point. (This was Dynasty Warriors II)And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.I am still amazed that people think that me claiming in that situation would make me townie. It wouldn't. The only time I flipped as scum, I tried to convince town that they had lost the game and mislynched me.
At that point in this game, I was almost positive I had been derphammered and mislynched, and just wanted to rail because I couldn't believe how stupid it was. There was also a small part of me that was unsure if I had miscounted votes, so did not want to give you information prematurely on the off chance I hadn't actually been hammered. In particular, your almost instant readiness to have me claim made me more suspect that I had made a mistake and wasn't actually hammered.
PPE: 2
What someone says after the game is already over is also different than what someone says when they've been lynched but they still have teammates to think about.
Well then I guess that is a data point to consider.Unlike others, I do not find your theory regarding him being an SK to be that unfounded.
But to my other question: do you have something to offer on Silverspawn's claim?
Silver, did you at the town think that claiming advances town's wincon? In retrospect, do you think it increased town's chance of winning compared to not claiming?yes
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.
Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad
PPE 5
What? Why?
I don't want to distract too much from examining WW, because I think that's worth doing here, but faust, you never answered this.
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.
And the reason I had to press Ichi was because after the "hammer", he talked about him flipping but didn't actually say that he was town or that he was mislynched. I wasn't convinced it was coming from a town player that just got mislynched. So I wanted to get him talking more.
What could Ichi have said to convince you of his townieness?
Here we go. . .Where?
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
AndHe absolutely is scummy! I'm just not sure the scum narrative is actually there. And I'm not saying lynch him for info. I'm saying he'd easily be the most information flip at this point.
Vote: Eevee
For the "yeah he's not that scummy and I don't want to lynch him but maybe let's go ahead and lynch him anyway or 'best info'" kind of post.
I quickly just reread joth, and think he is town too.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.
Ok, you can call it opportunism, but I was literally going to vote before I saw WW's vote. I found Eevee's post very scummy. I still find IG scummy, but that wagon is stalled, for better or for worse.
Votes are serious business. You should remember making them.Interesting that you say this after nearly derphammering me and then arguing how awesome derphammers are.
Votes are serious business. You should remember making them.Oh the irony.
I stand by that vote. There's no contradiction there at all. ANd SS, if you RVS (and I'm not at all conceding that Eevee's vote was RVS, but hypothetically if you do) someone and then a wagon builds on them and you don't move your vote, that's even scummier.The wagon formed and took off in like three hours, all of which I was offline. I couldn't move my vote because I wasn't present.
So it's possible to believe that votes are very serious and then vote posting any reasoning and without really checking the thread at all, and nearly hammering someone by accident? And there's no contradiction there?
Sorry, but I don't really see it.
Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?For me or for the player pool?
In general.Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?For me or for the player pool?
This is a fair post. I mostly agree with what you have to say; however, I don't understand at all how Eevee can be more implicated from my wagon than you.So it's possible to believe that votes are very serious and then vote posting any reasoning and without really checking the thread at all, and nearly hammering someone by accident? And there's no contradiction there?
Sorry, but I don't really see it.
I voted for you because I thought you were scum and I was sure enough to be ok with lynching you. That's a serious vote. I had reasoning, I just didn't post it because it had all been said before.
Eevee is saying that he didn't remember his vote and that it was a "pressure vote" which is somehow "not a serious vote" yet he didn't move it and you almost got lynched.
You don't see a difference there? I might not have realized how close to lynch you were, and that was sloppy play, but my vote was serious, I stood by it then, and I stand by it now. Eevee, on the other hand, just tried to backpedal away from his vote.
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.In general.Eevee, do you think number of contradicting statements and probability of being scum are closely related? If so, in which way? Does it happen more often as scum, as you have to fake reads, or does it happen less often as scum, as you are more careful?For me or for the player pool?
I wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.What are you getting at?QuoteI wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Does this mean joth gets town points?
The only blame I accept for Ichi-wagon are my leading questions that made him do all that stuff, bury himself.
Honestly, I voted to get more out of him, to help everyone make a read, and while I was gone for a couple of hours, you guys went crazy and almost accidentally lynched him. It's all good, stuff for us to analyze, but when I was casting my very first vote in the game, I couldn't have anticipated that happening.
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.What are you getting at?QuoteI wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Does this mean joth gets town points?
The only blame I accept for Ichi-wagon are my leading questions that made him do all that stuff, bury himself.
Honestly, I voted to get more out of him, to help everyone make a read, and while I was gone for a couple of hours, you guys went crazy and almost accidentally lynched him. It's all good, stuff for us to analyze, but when I was casting my very first vote in the game, I couldn't have anticipated that happening.
Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.What are you getting at?QuoteI wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Does this mean joth gets town points?
Joth put someone at L-1 without announcing it. Now he is saying that votes are serious business, that's contradicting.
Also, does one of you know more about joth's metagame?I've played these games with him for two and a half years, I think I have as good an idea as anyone.
That seems to be a double standard rather than a contradiction.Joth, I only know you from the James Bond game, and I find that you play very similar.What are you getting at?QuoteI wouldn't say they are closely related, it's very situational, but I'd definitely say they occur less often as scum.
Does this mean joth gets town points?
Joth put someone at L-1 without announcing it. Now he is saying that votes are serious business, that's contradicting.
Here let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.
When making comparisons to James Bond mafia, you should keep in mind that it's the same guy, whatever his role. They are bound to appear somewhat similar.QuoteHere let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.
You seem to be stressed out. That reminds me a lot of your final moments in the James Bond Mafia.
When making comparisons to James Bond mafia, you should keep in mind that it's the same guy, whatever his role. They are bound to appear somewhat similar.QuoteHere let me just explain 10 MORE TIMES why it's not so you can continue not reading my posts.
You seem to be stressed out. That reminds me a lot of your final moments in the James Bond Mafia.
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
What motivation would I have to lie about that?I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
This is a little off to me. What do you think we should find eevee scummy for?
I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
What motivation would I have to lie about that?I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
Why would I have to, given my position in it?What motivation would I have to lie about that?I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
Distancing yourself from the wagon.
Why would I have to, given my position in it?What motivation would I have to lie about that?I don't think people can blame eevee for the wagon as much as you seem to be. You can still find him scummy but I don't think you can find him scummy for that vote.
PPE:3
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I said, less about the vote, more about the fact that he claimed to forget about the vote.
Distancing yourself from the wagon.
Another thing: besides me, who is the newest player in this game? hydrad?
Is it just me or is the hind leg of eevee three times as thick as the front leg in your picture?It's just sitting, so you can't see the leg.
I think joth is town.
Silver seem scummy.
Witherweaver seems towny.
The "scummy posts of Eevee" were indeed scummy. Hedgy, so hedgy. I think if Ichi is scum, Eevee has a high chance of also being scum.
Is it just me or is the hind leg of eevee three times as thick as the front leg in your picture?It's just sitting, so you can't see the leg.
question. does everyone usually have a person that they can't read at all? Because right now I'll say that I think XP is scummy slightly. But in every game I've played with him I've basically seen him scummy and been wrong about it. I don't know why but I just can't figure it out. I know hes only posted 3 posts right now so I can't read him right away and hopefully I will have a better read after a bit more. But my gut reaction right now is a scummy XP...
I'm pretty bad at mafia.
ash you wanted to reply last monday. has something come up or did you just forget it?
uh... my pm?
this way seems a lot like poor mafia sportsmanship. One should not be discussing anything related to the game via PM. By extension, one shouldn't discuss PMs in the game, as your mutual referencing of a message that contains non-public information could be seen as talking in code.
this way seems a lot like poor mafia sportsmanship. One should not be discussing anything related to the game via PM. By extension, one shouldn't discuss PMs in the game, as your mutual referencing of a message that contains non-public information could be seen as talking in code.
question. does everyone usually have a person that they can't read at all? Because right now I'll say that I think XP is scummy slightly. But in every game I've played with him I've basically seen him scummy and been wrong about it. I don't know why but I just can't figure it out. I know hes only posted 3 posts right now so I can't read him right away and hopefully I will have a better read after a bit more. But my gut reaction right now is a scummy XP...Yeah, you and silverspawn seem to have this automatically part of your reads, so I have to not OMGUS especially with you.
There's a backup mod. I think we just have to play on.Ok. I was unsure about that.
There's a backup mod. I think we just have to play on.Ok. I was unsure about that.
Thank you for telling me.
I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM. I'm going to ignore it. I suggest we examine his other play. Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.
I definitely don't think silverspawn is doing the former, but I'm don't agree it means that it has to be the latter.I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM. I'm going to ignore it. I suggest we examine his other play. Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.
I mean, there's definitely "newbie town just claims VT because it's sort of boring to be a VT and what harm can come of it" claiming, and then there's "I'm well aware that there's a newbie type of claiming that will be forgive and give me lots of towncred" claiming.
It's hard to tell the difference.
Exactly. SS has at least 100% alluded to having a reason for his claim. I do not see him doing this as "newbie play". How many games has he been in so far? At any rate, that alone clears some sort of newbie defense for me--not that I think silver would want to make that defense anyway. I just wish he would tell us his reasoning, but his new playstyle is more cryptic apparently.I definitely don't think silverspawn is doing the former, but I'm don't agree it means that it has to be the latter.I keep going back and forth and Silver and I've settled on the VT claim completely null WIFOM. I'm going to ignore it. I suggest we examine his other play. Nothing really screams town to me, though he has been prodding people, which could be legitimate scum hunting.
I mean, there's definitely "newbie town just claims VT because it's sort of boring to be a VT and what harm can come of it" claiming, and then there's "I'm well aware that there's a newbie type of claiming that will be forgive and give me lots of towncred" claiming.
It's hard to tell the difference.
I think, whatever SS's alignment, he did give this issue more thought than "it's so boring to be a VT". He claims he still thinks what he did is helping town.. I don't know if I agree, but just how bold it is feels quite town to me.
He has a couple games under his belt, not really so newbieish. I think he had a plan. Scum or Town is not really discernable from that aloneOther in that town is more likely to go for a bold plan.
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.Does scum ever make a plan, not invent a reason and just claim to not be willing to explain their reason when pressed?
I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.
It would be nice to here something like that from him.I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
It would be nice to here something like that from him.I have a hard time having faith in his plan when he won't explain what it is.His plan might just have been "get reactions to the claim and soulread which of them are scummy and which towny".
Crickets! And I'm the biggest wagon, yikes.
I don't know why "feeding silver lines is scummy", but since he isn't telling us anything, all we can do is speculate. I don't know if I've been any more hedgy than usual, day 1 all your reads are still kind of fuzzy (see what I did there?).
I'm emerging with a stronger and stronger non-mafia (town, or maybe SK) read on SS. Joth, as I explained also a town read, although lighter. Faust has made sense to me, small town read for that.
I guess anyone else I could see myself voting really. Might need to do some rereading to find a candidate I really like, for now faust's case on WW is my favorite.
So, I'm rereading, trying to make sense of all the crazy stuff that happened. A timeline:
#61: silverspawn claims VT
#74: Ichi wants to know why silverspawn doesn't want to talk about his claim
#78: Eevee votes Ichi in response
#86: Eevee asks why scum!silverspawn would want to draw attention like that
#87: ashersky says he might have a plan
#90: Jimmmmm votes silverspawn
#100: ashersky "doesn't like the claim"
#119: joth doesn't think silverspawn is scum
#132: WW presses silverspawn to talk about his claim
#145: ADK votes Ichi for hedging on silverspawn
#147: ADK proposes the SK!silverspawn theory, votes him
#149: WW says it "makes some sense"
#152: Ichi agrees with ADK
#158: WW explains my vote on silverspawn
#166: WW votes Ichi
#169: silverspawn presents a very odd view on ethics
#170: silverspawn votes Ichi
#175: WW says I could be Ichi's partner
#181: joth votes Ichi, L-1
#190: WW asks Ichi what he'll flip
#195: WW unvotes
#211: joth unvotes
#225: WW admits to having known Ichi was not hammered when pressing him to claim
#235: ADK votes Ichi
Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.
Vote: Witherweaver
Ash makes sense, so I'll sheep him. Or maybe IG again. Noone seems very towny at all. vote: eeveeI literally feel like I'm your #1 suspect in every game we play.
Ash makes sense, so I'll sheep him. Or maybe IG again. Noone seems very towny at all. vote: eeveeI literally feel like I'm your #1 suspect in every game we play.
And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it.It's been easy to avoid scrutiny, because IG and silver have been dominating the day so much.
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.
So I guess, out of those players:
ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.
I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.
PPE: 7
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Checking reveals that he has changed his avatar back, so I am free to vote elsewhere now. Didn't you policy vote Jimmmmm as well for the same reason? We're probably in different time zones though, cause when I went to bed, he was still Robz.
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.My vote was about as close to a policy vote as I've ever done. It's confusing as heck having a fake Robz running around.
Vote: silverspawn
ppe: that was a joke vote, not a policy vote, and I'm very suspicious that you're actually claiming it as such. But what do you think about my theory on SS?
I find your theory on SS highly plausible. It would explain his refusal to give reasoning for his "claim" and him claiming in the first place. He had to have known that he would get heat for it though. The SK win condition seems pretty chancy given that if some mafia die first, they have no chance of winning. So maybe he just decided to have fun with things.
PPE: I am ready to vote for silverspawn. I find this a little odd, since it's like SK hunting--but I think ADK's theory makes the most sense so far.
PPE: more
Phew, I always get accused of "blending in"; maybe I should claim VT more often.
Hmm are you guys thinking joth is town because of his meta that I don't know? Or for other reasons. I find it interesting that no one else seems to think joth is scummy. Maybe I'm just missing something. Other then joth though I like fausts case on WW. I can see a couple town points in seeing if IG makes a town slip. But its so much better for scum if IG made a PR slip there. I think it was a more scummy move then town so I'm going to
Vote: WW
We ask town to claim when they're at L-1. How was this not better?
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?
Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?
Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.
I stand by my decision to not claim--you would have found out when I flipped anyway. Essentially, you lied in order to try and extract information from me, which I 100% view as anti-town behavior. Since it looks like you don't view that behavior as anti-town, I think it's a perfectly plausible scum move on your part.Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?
Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.
As I said before, I was trying to get him talking for info. Him saying his role was a risk I was willing to take.
I stand by my decision to not claim--you would have found out when I flipped anyway. Essentially, you lied in order to try and extract information from me, which I 100% view as anti-town behavior. Since it looks like you don't view that behavior as anti-town, I think it's a perfectly plausible scum move on your part.Your explanation doesn't make sense Hydrad. How could Ichi be okay? Are you saying all those voting against him were just kidding?
I'm saying he was at L-1. But if someone just said this is Ichi at L-1. I don't think anyone was willing to hammer or anything at that point. people would of either backed off since its so early in the day or just left him at L-1. I think there was little danger in him getting lynched that early unless there was a derphammer.
You don't think it would have come up later, even if the wagon died down then?
Ya there could be a possibility that his wagon dies down and then comes back and he gets back to L-1. Then he could claim if needed and might save himself. But it might not of been needed at all so I don't like the idea of trying to get him to claim early when It wasn't needed.
As I said before, I was trying to get him talking for info. Him saying his role was a risk I was willing to take.
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.
So I guess, out of those players:
ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.
I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.
Phew, I always get accused of "blending in"; maybe I should claim VT more often.
But I have never seen scum!WW
But I have never seen scum!WW
:o
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum? I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.
Also, we need some, like, good cases. Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum? I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.
Also, we need some, like, good cases. Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?
I saw it as frustrated town IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning.
So.. can anyone create a good narrative for Ichi's ''lynch'' behavior, either town or scum? I read it and I think "town wouldn't really react that way," but then I think "scum wouldn't really react that way," which puts me basically at a loss.
Also, we need some, like, good cases. Wasn't that Eevee dude scummy?
I saw it as frustrated town IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning.
"town" seems completely arbitrary in there. Why not frustrated scum IG angry that he got lynched instantly for no big reason and no real warning?
Can we just lynch IG or at least someone? Nobody's close enough to being lynched for anything to happen.
I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.
I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.
silverspawn, do you care to explain why you unvoted Ichi before and are now revoting?
silverspawn, do you care to explain why you unvoted Ichi before and are now revoting?
The first vote was purely for pressure and didn't have anything to do with my read on him. But as it happens, I actually do find him scummy, so I'm voting for real now.
The deadline is coming closer, so it's time for serious votes. Otherwise, we don't get anywhere.
Only one way to find out. . . ;D
But the WIFOM here is insane.Only for scum.
That's because I was (and am) policy voting Jimmmmm. I just woke up and haven't checked to see if he's changed his avatar yet.Where no suspicion is due?It's almost like half "creating suspicion where no suspicion is due" and half "blatant rolefishing".Well IVote: Ichimaru, that's so scummy.?
Who claims VT immediately day 1? This is incredibly suspicious behavior. I don't entirely get your comment about it "leading down a dark route", but that doesn't sound as if you approve of it.
PPE: 7
I looked back over people's reactions to silver's claim and Ichi stood out as someone who said/implied that it was scummy but didn't actually vote for silverspawn. So vote: Ichimaru Gin.
Checking reveals that he has changed his avatar back, so I am free to vote elsewhere now. Didn't you policy vote Jimmmmm as well for the same reason? We're probably in different time zones though, cause when I went to bed, he was still Robz.
Hmmm. That sounds really towny. unvoteWas this just sarcasm, because I'm not entirely getting what you mean here and in your other post.
Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
I think they do. Scum is very self-conscious. People used to find "pre-emptively calling yourself out for lurking" very scummy in the past, not sure why that's not a thing anymore.Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
Does scum post "And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it."? Seems ballsy.
I think they do. Scum is very self-conscious. People used to find "pre-emptively calling yourself out for lurking" very scummy in the past, not sure why that's not a thing anymore.Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
Does scum post "And yeah, nobody really has suspected me yet, even though I've lurked a lot this game. Seems strange, but I'm fine with it."? Seems ballsy.
Yeah, I have in fact been lurking, but that's because I was busy thinking about the other game. Now that that's boring I can lynch scum here.This is really just a glorified OMGUS, by the way. I don't think it's fair to characterize you as an easy mislynch when you have 0 votes this close to the deadline. If I wanted an easy mislynch, surely I too would be aboard the Ichi wagon (unless he was my partner, or course).
And no, that's wasn't sarcasm. Your L-1 does in fact look towny, but I'm kind of worried about losing scum at the last minute.
Looks likes there's someone more scummy now, though: Eevee.
I've learnt from experience that scum tries to mislynch me a lot. In fact, so much it feels like a valid scumtell. Of course, now I won't be able to use this in the future, but I'm trying to win this game. Also, I don't think opportunistic voting in the sense of trying to get a lynch and voting people less than maximally scummy is a scumtell, but eevee appears to try to start a lynch on me that IG supports because of being scared, which is opportunistic, so he's being hypocritical.
vote: Eevee
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.
LOL. Why does everyone think it's protown for lynches to happen at the last possible second? Deadline chaos = sloppiness scum can exploit. What's going to magically happen in 4 days anyway?
Don't we still have 4 days to think about this? I know its coming up soon but I feel like people are a bit more rushed then they need to be.
LOL. Why does everyone think it's protown for lynches to happen at the last possible second? Deadline chaos = sloppiness scum can exploit. What's going to magically happen in 4 days anyway?
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.
[/quote
Eevee is a good option.
I'm also thinking Hydrad seems to be white knighting.
I can still see Ichi going either way.
Sigh, moving out of quote:
Eevee is a good option.
I'm also thinking Hydrad seems to be white knighting.
I can still see Ichi going either way.
Means you're defending people. It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town. Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!" I have a tendency to do it.
Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town. Moreso than an uniformed you should be.
Means you're defending people. It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town. Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!" I have a tendency to do it.
Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town. Moreso than an uniformed you should be.
Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.
I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.
Means you're defending people. It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town. Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!" I have a tendency to do it.
Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town. Moreso than an uniformed you should be.
Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.
I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.
Oh good then. We'll just run eveyrone up to L1 and then lynch whoever Hydrad isn't 100% confident is town.
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.I'm not opposed to switching back. Others, thoughts on WW?
The WW wagon doesn't seem to be picking off... which is a shame, because it's a good case. Anyway, I'm hoping to do a reread tomorrow or so to figure where to place my vote.I'm not opposed to switching back. Others, thoughts on WW?
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon"). So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.
If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town. The other direction doesn't apply though.
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon"). So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.
If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town. The other direction doesn't apply though.
Why do you think I'm scum? We've usually done excellent at identifying each other as town, so it feels weird to be at odds with you.
Means you're defending people. It's easy to do as scum, because you know a player is town. Then when they flip town you're all like "see I told you guys that was a terrible lynch!" I have a tendency to do it.
Particularly, here you seem a little bit confident that Ichi is town. Moreso than an uniformed you should be.
Ah interesting. I guess its because this feels so similar to how ichi was in dice mafia so this is the first time I've played with someone in a similar situation to when I saw them before. To me it feels exactly to how ichi acted in day 1 there and unless hes really good at replicating his meta I think this is town ichi.
I guess this white knighting already got me in trouble in zelda mafia where part of the case was that I was too good at predicting who was town in the first few days. I find it much easier to see if people are town then if they are scum in this game. I've almost never felt 100% confident in a scum lynch but had pretty close to 100% confidence that its a towny people are lynching.
Oh good then. We'll just run eveyrone up to L1 and then lynch whoever Hydrad isn't 100% confident is town.
I guess I'm hedgy in that I don't have a strong opinion about IG, but I don't see anything else that matches your description (and I'm not scum, I'm not going to fabricate an opinion on IG, obviously).
Reread xerxes and see what you think. Doesn't take long.I guess I'm hedgy in that I don't have a strong opinion about IG, but I don't see anything else that matches your description (and I'm not scum, I'm not going to fabricate an opinion on IG, obviously).
Also I don't have any other great ideas :(
I see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good ideaI see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
Doing a complete reread.
Reads from this, town to scum:
faust
silverspawn - VT claim. I kind of don't think he would do that if he had a partner, so if he's scum, it's either Traitor or SK. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today.
Ichimaru - suggests silverspawn is lying. I somehow don't think scum does that... thinks maybe, but doesn't post stuff like that. It's not good for town to post it, but I think it's more likely to come from town. His defensiveness and unwillingness to claim does not point towards him being scum for me.
joth - the vote on Ichi was sheepy. Seems a bit careless and I believe that's more likely to come from town.
ADK - starts SK hunting. Overall his posts seem like genuine scumhunting to me though.
Eevee - after all the Ichi craziness, says his flip will provide information... that is always a somewhat scummy motive for a lynch. Sheeps my WW case, which isn't a huge red flag, because obviously it was a really good case. Overall, I agree with him a lot. Slight town.
Jimmmmm - vote silver because VT claim is "not good". That is the only thing I put down. Not good, much lurking.
hydrad - asks what JK means, some scum points for that. Not much else, pretty null overall.
ashersky - says he has a plan, then doesn't. Seems a bit like emulating his town meta here. It also takes a long time for him to get into real scumhunting, not sure what that means.
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.
So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.
I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me. And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move. How is that a good case?
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me. And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move. How is that a good case?
I don't know why it should not fit a scum narrative for you. And I don't think it was a good town move. And anyway that's not the whole case on you. This is what I mean by twisting words.
Your argument against me is that I did something that in no way fits a scum narrative for me. And was, at least in intention if not in execution, a good town move. How is that a good case?
I don't know why it should not fit a scum narrative for you. And I don't think it was a good town move. And anyway that's not the whole case on you. This is what I mean by twisting words.
Then I in no way understand the rest of the case.
How was it not a good town move?
vote: IchiI believe that's hammer.
Not again! Check the vote count. You're at L-1.
We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.
I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).
That's all for now.
everyone on the Ichi wagon: Please explain what Ichi did to appear scummy, and how it fis a scum narrative. All the cases I've seen so far boil down to "well, he wasn't super townie, so let's lynch him".
This feels dishonest. He was damn near lynched twice already, and the first time happened in a super rapid fashion.We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.
I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).
That's all for now.
Instead, let's think hard about the implications of the fact that, despite you having been the number one suspect all day, it seems damn near impossible to actually push your lynch through. Who does that happen to, scum or town?
Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.
Vote: XP
vote: XP
A strong case.
L-2
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
Quotexerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
and you have said a similar thing yourself.
Hmmm. That sounds really towny. unvote
Also, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG
alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.
In James Bond mafia, XP was much more talkative, and although he switched his votes around a lot, he played very differently. He was making cases himself, and he was calling out others for what he thought was weird play. He also complained when people did things he didn't agree with.
Here, we have nothing of that. He is just semi-lurking, jumping on opportune wagons, and not doing much in general.
and theseHmmm. That sounds really towny. unvoteAlso, that went a little quickly. Let's see, faust has been acting a little scummy. But only in relation to IG. Actually, maybe that could have been fabricated. vote: IG
he unvotes and then immediately revotes for IG. that almost looks like he switched up his fabricated reads or something and got confused. it doesn't look like a town perspective.
I'm here to hammer, but of course want to give XP a chance to claim. This is a large part based on reads, but also survival-voting to prevent me being mislynched today.Nevermind, forgot I was already voting. :-[
I see people switching to him a little too quickly as well, but at least there's some real material for the case. I see joth's voting patterns and posts as very scummy, but they also make sense from his point of view of really hating D1 and wanting it over ASAP. So is this part of his meta that I somehow missed in my previous games (game?) with him?
I don't get the last point. And if he was fabricating reads and got switched up, why wouldn't he just stick with the last one and play like he changed his mind?
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.wtf?
Lots of things seem to be "interesting" and "intriguing" :PThis day is just plain weird.
vote: joth
I'm not saying I'm going to vote before he gets a chance to defend himself but I am saying if he doesn't convince me otherwise, I'll vote for him. And it's very interesting that XP got a wagon on him but then people freaked out when I stated intent to hammer.
To me "intent to hammer" means "I am about to hammer in a few minutes/in my next post"
I think it was because I hadn't forwarded him my PM yet. Nobody cares anything about my reads? :(They seem very omgus-like to me, but of course we all do. I understood you posted them already though, and it's not like you need to ask us to ask for them if you have more. Help help us!
Still alive!Yep. I've seen it. :D
(Anyone watch The Croods?)
Good night for us.Is this because we only lost a VT?
Well, yeah, I'm not especially happy it was ADK. :) Although it is an interesting kill, I remember being firmly null on him and I think some other people suspected him quite a bit. Not a kill you'd expect?Still alive!Yep. I've seen it. :D
(Anyone watch The Croods?)Good night for us.Is this because we only lost a VT?
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.Well, yeah, I'm not especially happy it was ADK. :) Although it is an interesting kill, I remember being firmly null on him and I think some other people suspected him quite a bit. Not a kill you'd expect?Still alive!Yep. I've seen it. :D
(Anyone watch The Croods?)Good night for us.Is this because we only lost a VT?
It was also good that there was only one kill. Lessens the likelihood of a serial killer quite significantly.
I feel like some players are flying under the radar here, not in terms of how much they're posting but in terms of scrutiny they've been under. I'm kind of one of them, but I'd also point out faust, jim, ash. I don't want to lynch ash day one on principle but I think that the focus here has been on a few players and that's not good for town.Other than that, his vote sitting on IG almost all day, until at the very end he started preferring the XP case, first asking him to claim and then hammering him almost immediately following the claim.
So I guess, out of those players:
ash seems like his regular self, and he's VLA so I don't expect too high activity from him.
faust is difficult for me to read, but I think he's doing a very good job of blending in, so a few scum points for him.
jim's another VLA but seems like he might be lurking beyond that.
Hydrad wasn't on my original list but he also I think has avoided some scrutiny.
I still like my Ichi vote, for how he acted before, during and after his fake lynch, but I guess I'd toss those points out there for consideration.
Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.
Vote: XP
So the order was IG -> Eevee -------> Hydrad -> silverspawn -> joth -> ADK (as you can see in the vote's post, the -'s are an indicator for the space in between)
I'm Town. ADK is Town. That leaves joth and Hydrad. I'm not sure about joth, also because switching wagons here is going to make him look really bad if IG flips scum. He switched really late. scum!joth has been quite careful about these kinds of things in James Bond Mafia from what I can tell.
So, Hydrad. Hydrad has switched wagons with this quote:Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.
Vote: XP
I'll also say that I have done a complete reread on Hydrad Zelda mafia. A bunch of things stood out, the average length of his posts was very low, he wrote a big panic defense for a null case early, and overall he's had very little content. A few other things too. Expecting him to flip scum there, I was ready for a big townread here, because he's played quite differently. More long posts (still not many though). Less blending in. More content. In a vacuum, his play here looks townier to me, but it's suspicious that it's so different. And with him flipping town in Zelda, that makes him look scummy here. Of course, he's also relatively new, so it could just be a normal change of his game without a change of his alignment.
Still, I'm leaning on either Hydrad or IG for now. With the suspicion IG got, he can just use self-preservation as an excuse. He did vote for XP when he was at L-1.
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.
Mm. Definitely expected scum to leave me alive since so many people suspect me. I don't have almost any strong town reads so far, so don't have much of a guess on who scum would nightkill. So maybe they didn't like ADK's reads, or they thought he looked townier than others, or PR hunting is possible (though I don't really recall anything to support it). It'd definitely be a good idea to reread him.
Well, you don't need to be surprised that many people suspect you if you're behaving like this; making up excuses for not being nightkilled is a big scum tell for me.
Question for everyone. What percent sure are we that there's no serial killer at this point? (I am asking for a reason.)
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
QuoteQuestion for everyone. What percent sure are we that there's no serial killer at this point? (I am asking for a reason.)
I think this question is dangerous. If people answer it honestly, they might semi claim JK or something. I'm not familiar with this role, but it seems to be that it is pretty strong for preventing kills, as both targeting the killer and the victim will do the job.
I already claimed VT, so I can answer at least. I'd say between 80 and 90%
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver
Want to share?
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.
why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.
why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?
Got sick of winning, trying the losing thing on for size.
Well, you're not obligated to be awesome town until Day 3, and it's only Day 2, so you can still make choices that aren't the best for town.
why do you encourage him to do decisions that are bad for town?
Got sick of winning, trying the losing thing on for size.
You're trying too hard. Just tell us that you're scum and who your partners are, and we'll make sure you lose.
Cool. vote: Witherweaver
Cool. vote: Witherweaver
Nooooo vote my partners first
Cool. vote: Witherweaver
Nooooo vote my partners first
nah you're the one who keeps trying to out PRs. Plus Ichi's like impossible to lynch.
Fake how?
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?
[/quote
What exactly is the purpose of this question?
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?
And you honestly believe this is significantly different than how I otherwise behave?
Again, correctly: What exactly is the purpose of this question?
Vote: Jimmm I'm conditioning people to drop their scum reads on me.
No, but seriously WW, I spearheaded a town lynch, and that made you change your mind? Curious.
Also, as scum you don't want to be on an easy mislynch, because that's the first place people look (e.g., Ichi being "100% certain there is scum on your wagon"). So, you have to avoid the easy wagon, so you have reasons, so you end up defending town.Okay, I like this line of thinking, and it makes you seem townier to me.
If you are scum, I believe Ichi would be town. The other direction doesn't apply though.
Why do you think I'm scum? We've usually done excellent at identifying each other as town, so it feels weird to be at odds with you.
To be fair to Jimmm, it is known he is legitimately busy right now.Ok thanks. That does make a difference in my read on him. Do you know if he was similarly busy for most of D1?
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
Actually,The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Actually,The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Vote: Faust
You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.
So, who on XP's wagon was scum?
Man it's cool how I vote for someone then in the next post someone votes for the same person. I am going to use this power to cause all sorts of havoks.
Man it's cool how I vote for someone then in the next post someone votes for the same person. I am going to use this power to cause all sorts of havoks.
nope when you voted for me it didn't work. Your power is terrible.
I agree with your points ADK. Though I don't think XP has gotten much suspicion either from what I remember.
Neither he nor Jimmmmm were around for my wagon though.
Still don't get much of the votes on Eevee. And not sure what to make of silver here either. Blah, I feel like something else has to happen to get this game rolling again. Some town points go to everyone that's at least around and posting a fair amount I guess.
I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.
I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.
Just woke up. I am at L-1
Wow, guess I'll be derphammered twice this game.
I've said what I've said in my defense. If that hasn't convinced you or the multiple insane ramp ups of my wagon, I don't know.
I still don't like WW trying to force a claim out of me under false pretenses--no matter how he tries to defend it. So vote: WW
I will repeat that I stand by my decision to not claim. I really can't believe the lazy votes on me, and all I ask is that people look at the poor votes on me.
PPE: vote: XP
XP unvotes IG and then revotes him in the next post. Then Eevee joins the wagon and legitimizes it with a "real case"Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
I question Eevee's case on XP, saying it seems like very clumsy scum play. There's a lot more conversation. The day stalls again. Ichi makes a sly dig at XP:-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good ideaI see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-WW defending him pushing me to claim even though I wasn't hammered
-No one really picking up on XP's hugely scummy behavior: lurking, sheeping votes, joining easy wagons and pushing them, not being around for important events like silver's claim--and not really commenting on them.
-People finding you (Eevee) scummy for reasons that make no sense to me
-Everyone just accepting silver's claim
I don't know, most of that behavior that I list makes very little sense to me, and I feel like scum is just getting away with blatantly sheeping my wagon and trying to mislynch me for the second time today.
So people can just claim VT right away and get virtually no pressure, that must be great. I understand that I distracted from it, but silver's claim is still a very important event of this day that people seem to be ignoring.
and then silver:The XP case is looking strong. I have to reread him in James Bond Mafia, but right now I think he's almost as good as IG.
One of these two should be our lynch.
Witherweaver throws his support (but not his vote) behind the lynch. Oh boy I was hoping to find something like that.XP always feels like town!XP to me.
Ichi and Hydrad always feel like scum to me.
The things XP always gets called out for are traits he always displays as town, so I tend to always see him that way. I don't have much of a gut town instinct on him here.. more, like I think, "would he talk about how suspicious or scummy he is as scum?"
I wouldn't oppose XP. The only player I have a real town read on is Joth.
faust posts a reads list. relevant excerpt:xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.
So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.
I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.
Ichi gets to L1 AGAIN. Hydrad jumps lamely onto the XP wagon:Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.
Vote: XP
Silver jumps on officially:vote: XP
A strong case.
L-2
I vote for XP. I know it's scummy to say this, but I regret this vote. We were nearing deadline and Ichi was really repeatedly refusing to happen.alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.
ADK declares intent to hammerI don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.
I unvote, because of a confusion of what "intent to hammer" means. I revote upon clearing up the confusion. XP claims VT, ADK quickhammers, and that's all she wrote. Thoughts to come in next post.
vote: Hydrad
the previous case was not bad, but this last vote was completely unreasonable. this is scum!hydrad trying to imitate confident!town!Hydrad.
I agree with your points ADK. Though I don't think XP has gotten much suspicion either from what I remember.
Neither he nor Jimmmmm were around for my wagon though.
Still don't get much of the votes on Eevee. And not sure what to make of silver here either. Blah, I feel like something else has to happen to get this game rolling again. Some town points go to everyone that's at least around and posting a fair amount I guess.
I think IG is by far the best case so far. I'll definitely do him.
I'll also consider Hydrad or XP.
Just woke up. I am at L-1
Wow, guess I'll be derphammered twice this game.
I've said what I've said in my defense. If that hasn't convinced you or the multiple insane ramp ups of my wagon, I don't know.
I still don't like WW trying to force a claim out of me under false pretenses--no matter how he tries to defend it. So vote: WW
I will repeat that I stand by my decision to not claim. I really can't believe the lazy votes on me, and all I ask is that people look at the poor votes on me.
PPE: vote: XP
Vote: Xerxes
His last few posts that seemed like sort of quietly slipping onto the wagon and got me to rereading him, and wow has he been lurking, to the magnitude of only having 15 posts in the entire game. All his votes have been on growing wagons.
I don't know, reread him for yourself, but he has done a masterful job of avoiding all scrutiny despite playing quite scummy.
-Joth saying derphammering is townie and acting like ending the day super early is a good ideaI see a lot of people calling townie stuff scummy and scummy stuff townie, which frankly is confusing me.These are the kind of things you want to call out! What are you referring to?
-WW defending him pushing me to claim even though I wasn't hammered
-No one really picking up on XP's hugely scummy behavior: lurking, sheeping votes, joining easy wagons and pushing them, not being around for important events like silver's claim--and not really commenting on them.
-People finding you (Eevee) scummy for reasons that make no sense to me
-Everyone just accepting silver's claim
I don't know, most of that behavior that I list makes very little sense to me, and I feel like scum is just getting away with blatantly sheeping my wagon and trying to mislynch me for the second time today.
So people can just claim VT right away and get virtually no pressure, that must be great. I understand that I distracted from it, but silver's claim is still a very important event of this day that people seem to be ignoring.
The XP case is looking strong. I have to reread him in James Bond Mafia, but right now I think he's almost as good as IG.
One of these two should be our lynch.
XP always feels like town!XP to me.
Ichi and Hydrad always feel like scum to me.
The things XP always gets called out for are traits he always displays as town, so I tend to always see him that way. I don't have much of a gut town instinct on him here.. more, like I think, "would he talk about how suspicious or scummy he is as scum?"
I wouldn't oppose XP. The only player I have a real town read on is Joth.
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.
So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.
I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.
Rereading XP I am finding him scummier. I don't like all of his vote swapping. I would much rather a XP lynch then a IG one.
Vote: XP
vote: XP
A strong case.
L-2
alright, you've all convinced me. I'll make the switch to vote: XP. That's L1. Last words time.
I don't find XP particularly towny and I find this quickly building wagon intriguing. Intent to hammer.
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.
Yeah. It's my understanding it's been a busy fall for him.To be fair to Jimmm, it is known he is legitimately busy right now.Ok thanks. That does make a difference in my read on him. Do you know if he was similarly busy for most of D1?
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.
You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
When I started pushing XP, he was super-lurking and slipping onto any growing wagon with sheepish reasons. I disagree he wasn't scummy.I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.
You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
Well, I reread ADK, and he didn't have any strong reads. He suspected IG, along with half the town. So, as far as I can tell he wasn't killed because his reads were spot on.. unless IG is scum and they wanted to hit someone behind that case, of course. Everything does seem to point eerily at IG.ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.
Yes, and that reminds me:
Eevee, since you're the proponent of "If you're left alive start questioning your reads," what do you think about the ADK kill? Do you think it was reads-based?
Exactly. "Scum doesn't push a D1 wagon unless they're in danger?".I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.
You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
Doesn't that seem a bit circular?
Or are you saying Eevee was the pusher?
I don't buy a lurker lynch here. I think the scum is active, and was involved in yesterday's lynch.This is because you think IG is scum?
Other way around. XP wasn't being particularly scummy. His lynch only took off because nothing else was going on and other lynches, better lynches, repeatedly failed to connect. I look at the wagon, and I see a wagon being pushed by scum. Scum doesn't push a wagon day 1 unless they're in danger. Therefore, IG is scum.
You know, that and all the same reasons I found him scummy yesterday.
Doesn't that seem a bit circular?
Or are you saying Eevee was the pusher?
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?
Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?
This feels dishonest. He was damn near lynched twice already, and the first time happened in a super rapid fashion.We really appreciate you stepping in here mail-mi and continuing this game, so thank you. PM sent.
I don't know if there's much that I can do to avert my lynch today. I think there are cases much better than mine--with evidence other than my known defensiveness. I like where my vote is now, and I implore all of you to reread XP and think hard about the implications of my lynch growing so quickly with a continued number of poorly explained votes (not implying this for all votes on me, just some).
That's all for now.
Instead, let's think hard about the implications of the fact that, despite you having been the number one suspect all day, it seems damn near impossible to actually push your lynch through. Who does that happen to, scum or town?
The deadline, it's pretty close. Time to have your vote where it matters, people!
And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?
I don't follow you. But my narrative works with Ichi + someone else as the scum team. It falls apart if Ichi is town. So Ichi is the more solid vote. Plus his flip is extremely informational, given his 2 L1 wagons yesterday.Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?
Because you pushed the lynch. Not very hard, but harder than anyone else. Also, why do you think IG is town?
So town shouldn't push lynches? Huh?And so if the implication is Eevee scum => Ichi scum, why not vote for Eevee instead of Ichi?
I don't follow you. But my narrative works with Ichi + someone else as the scum team. It falls apart if Ichi is town. So Ichi is the more solid vote. Plus his flip is extremely informational, given his 2 L1 wagons yesterday.Joth, why are you dismissing me being town who liked lynching XP better than lynching IG?
Because you pushed the lynch. Not very hard, but harder than anyone else. Also, why do you think IG is town?
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!What?
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
No. The setup does say that if the Mafia NK the Traitor, they will be recruited instead of dying. So I think that's what joth's referring to.I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Huh? Recruiting can only be done randomly in the setup, or when all other Mafia die Traitor inherits the night kill.
At least that's how I understand it.
Serial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.
No. The setup does say that if the Mafia NK the Traitor, they will be recruited instead of dying. So I think that's what joth's referring to.I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Huh? Recruiting can only be done randomly in the setup, or when all other Mafia die Traitor inherits the night kill.
At least that's how I understand it.
PPE: 1
I missed that part. What does it even mean?QuoteSerial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.So the SK could use the power of any of the possible town PR's in this setup for one night?
If scum recruits the traitor they gain a roleblocker. Very worth it for them.
Mafia:Yeah. I'm pretty sure this means the Traitor is a roleblocker regardless of whether they're recruited or not.
2 Mafia + 1 Roleblocking Traitor
Traitor is Role blocker, but if he doesn't know Mafia he may block his buddies.
So your theory was that Ichi was so obvscum that Mafia decided to shoot him for the RB power?
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.I get that, but if he can only use them when he doesn't NK, how is strongman useful. just being unblockable without doing anything that can be blocked is like building a fortress in the desert.
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.
Vote: Faust
You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
Vote: faust
I really don't know where most of your reads are. I know you think WW is scummy but where do you stand on others?
ADK emerges as an extremely weird kill choice here as his hammer of XP was SO SCUMMY he would have been a very easy mislynch candidate.
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.Vote: Faust
You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
The Jimmmmm votes aren't helping much. This might be the last day we have before MyLo. People should come up with better arguments than LAL.Surely the Jimmm votes are better than your novote.
That said, it would be nice to hear a bit more from Jimmmmmm.
I'm voting for WW.
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
Vote: Silverspawn
But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
Vote: Silverspawn
But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.
Are you implying that silver is the SK here?
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.Vote: Faust
You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?
I changed my mind.
Catching up, this is the first thing I noted:Scum has to be somewhere. Lack of evidence for other players being scum counts as evidence for a given player being scum. There are some actions to indicate that, e.g., you may be Town, but not really from him.Vote: Faust
You've been fairly critical of everyone else's statements and votes, but have barely provided much yourself outside of a pretty trumped up argument against me.
How does this fit together? And I to say I have not provided much is rude and inaccurate. Above that, what's wrong about being critical?
I changed my mind.
What were the points that indicated to you that I might be town, then, and why did you change your mind?
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works. It's worth pointing out.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works. It's worth pointing out.
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to him that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
I honestly thought he was kidding.I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
I honestly thought he was kidding.I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
And I didn't realize you were voting for WW, apologies. Can you list your reasons again? I might join.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works. It's worth pointing out.
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to him that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
You're right. No one has ever tried to produce a townslip before. My bad.
It's also only his third (?) game.
I honestly thought he was kidding.I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
And I didn't realize you were voting for WW, apologies. Can you list your reasons again? I might join.
Yeah, maybe it was kidding... I'm not sure.
Anyway, Witherweaver: I found his whole interaction with Ichi on Day 1 very scummy (well, I happen to think that Ichi is town also). First hedgy, then trying to make him reveal his PR. Also multiple instances of SK hunting (there was something on D1 already). Now WW likes to say that scum would do this because they know it's seen as scummy... but it is scummy because town has no reason to do it! Town should approach this day with a mindset of "there is probably no SK, so let's hunt mafia". Not doing that is anti-town and scummy. And while other players were suspected for the exact same things WW is doing, he never got much suspicion. Plus, my gut says WW's posts are disingenuous, but it's hard to put that in a proper argument.
I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works. It's worth pointing out.
They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Oh hey reading setups is cool:QuoteSerial Killer: (if applicable, present 3/8 of the time)
- 2-shot JOAT, which includes a passive 1-shot Bulletproof, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Investigation Immune. If the Bulletproof is used up one JOAT attributes will be lost. If both the Strongman or Investigation Immune is used at night the Bulletproof will be lost as well.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.
In regards to the discussion before about a single kill implying no SK... SK has possible motivation to not shoot here.
that's just a quote from the setup. I vaguely recall that it was confusing the first time I read it too.
so, does it mean the town roles are from the list of PR's that are possible to be included for town, and is not related to the JOAT? if so, all you had to do is write that, instead of starting this insane faking no SK case.
wait, I don't get the SK. He can only use PR's when he doesn't try to kill? but, one of his PR is strongman. how is that useful if he doesn't try to kill anyone? How does the passive work? is he only bulletproof if he doesn't try to kill?
Vote: Silverspawn
But in case it wasn't disingenuous, it's the possible Town PRs he can use.
Strongman is part of his JOAT. He can use it as a kill modifier if he kills.
Well, first of all scum doesn't know who the VT's are. I'm sure they'd change their kill now if they could. But, here are a couple of alternatives of the top of my head:I just had a thought! What if Ichi's the traitor? Eevee was defending him and he didn't even know it! And the SK killed ADK -- mafia recruited Ichi!
Occam's razor, man. This theory is no good.
I disagree. What exactly is the simplest explanation for last night's one kill being a VT who would have looked very towny coming into today? There is no simple explanation. But this complex one fits all the facts of yesterday perfectly.
Scum thought he was a pr. IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.
Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself. Of course, he kind of already implied this:WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?
Scum thought he was a pr. IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.
Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.
But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Yeah, it would obviously never occur to me that someone would think that, because it's not like everyone points it out every single game of Mafia that's ever been in existence and always tries to paint someone as scummy as doing this or anything.
Silver's post read like obvious SK trying to look like he doesn't know how the SK works. It's worth pointing out.
The reason I respond to this is because I think it makes you scummy.
Firstly I have zero reason to fake a non-SK slip. I'm not a big suspect, and even if people believe me that I'm not an SK, I can still be mafia. what? Why should I see the need to do something like that. There is zero WIFOM.
Secondly, I showed you the post that was - and still is (!) - confusing me. I'll show you again. Here:They can choose to use PRs instead of kill.
I thought I knew how the SK works. This post is the only problem. You said they can't use PR's if they kill. But strongman is a PR that doesn't make sense if you don't use it while you're attempting a kill. So, you were doing the post that confused me, and then you were voting for me based on the fact that your post was confusing.
This really makes me want to vote for you, because I just can't believe a town player would be serious with this case. But I also really want to do IG. The thing is that the IG case has all sorts of history with day1 and reason based on wagons, and there is the joth case, where as your case is more or less out of nowhere, I didn't find you scummy day1. Right now, I feel like voting for you could be a trap. Even though you're really trying hard to look scummy.
Scum thought he was a pr. IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.
Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.
But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.
Suppose you are scum. Who would have been your nightkill?
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.
Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself. Of course, he kind of already implied this:WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?
You understand me wrong. I do not mean to imply you're the SK, but maybe you are mafia and you didn't choose to kill ADK?
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.
Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself. Of course, he kind of already implied this:WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?
You understand me wrong. I do not mean to imply you're the SK, but maybe you are mafia and you didn't choose to kill ADK?
Oh, I didn't think of that. That would be interesting.. there are possibilities: Jailkeeper, commuting, bulletproof, or Traitor Roleblocking. Can't be SK because he shot. Well, I know that I am not Mafia, but this theory is still possible for the real Mafia team.
Interestingly enough, it does explain the ADK kill. He was the first one to start the "Silver is SK" thing.
Scum thought he was a pr. IG is scum and wanted to silence someone who suspected him. Scum wanted to frame IG. Scum thought town would think "that hammer was so scummy it's actually towny". Scum wanted to confuse us. Scum didn't think about it much.
Those are all bad. There was no evidence that he was a PR. IG had better targets who suspected him more and pushed his lynch harder. Scummy towny hammers are not really a thing.
But it doesn't matter. My traitor theory is incidental to my case on IG and Eevee.
Suppose you are scum. Who would have been your nightkill?
Why is it you think Ichi is town?
Oh wait, I get it. Silverspawn is the SK, and he wants to avoid being targeted by mafia.This, in particular is noteworthy.
IG -> Eevee -------> Hydrad -> silverspawn -> joth -> ADK
I'm not sure I've ever seen Hydrad so not present.
or, we could do Hydrad first. That's probably even better. but one of those two.
I have too many town reads this game... I tried figuring out who I wanted lynched if not WW (I'm less sure about him now, it's still decent, but maybe there are other options). And really all people who are active seem townie. There may be scum in Hydrad/Jimmmmm/ashersky, who are all very much absent, but there's not really a case for them. I could do Hydrad I guess.
Why is it you think Ichi is town?
I don't think his reaction to silverspawn's claim was something scum would do.
Vote: Hydrad
Vote: Hydrad
Do i get a reason?
1 - 10 scales are stupid. either make it 1 - 9 or 0 - 10. five isn't even in the middle of 1-10
Vote: Hydrad
Do i get a reason?
Would one convince you to vote for yourself?
Why not make the scale from -95 to 105?
Post count, because I have no clue. Rereading Hydrad after this.
WW: 152
silverspawn: 113
Eevee: 108
IG: 80
joth: 71
faust: 59
Hydrad: 55
ashersky: 39
jimmm: 11
Well, my first impression is that both Jimmm and ashersky have been getting remarkably little scrutiny for their underposting. Jimmm is often a low poster, but not to this extent, and I don't think I've ever seen ash be such a non-factor halfway through day 2. Of Jimm's 10 posts after the game started, 5 were about Robz's avatar change and his only post today reads "And we are back."
Why is it you think Ichi is town?
I don't think his reaction to silverspawn's claim was something scum would do.
This didn't stop you from voting for him a couple times yesterday, though.
Vote: Hydrad
Do i get a reason?
Would one convince you to vote for yourself?
Vote: Hydrad
Do i get a reason?
Would one convince you to vote for yourself?
Probably not, but what about me?
Hey guys, I'm back home now. I need to re-read this entire game, as even though I've skimmed along on train and hotel wifi, I haven't really processed anything. I'll read today and post some new thoughts.Cool! A fresh perspective ought to be quite helpful.
Despite his lowish post count, Hydrad isn't low in content at all. First of all, 55 posts halfway through day 2 is decent activity in itself, we've just had a couple very high posters, and secondly, as far as I can tell he has offered his opinion on almost every issue. When I reread him I was surprised how high in content his posts were.Vote: Hydrad
Do i get a reason?
Would one convince you to vote for yourself?
Probably not, but what about me?
Eh alright.. PoE makes him a good candidate already, and then there's been quite a bit of opportunistic wagon jumping. He was in a middle position on the XP wagon, jumped on you and then on Jimmm. Jimm in particularly looks like a likely lynch today simply because he's not around and a lot of people have voted for him or indicated they would vote for him. I think he's second on the wagon right now. His reads list just feels very safe to me.. nothing too out of the ordinary except for his extreme defense of Ichi, which I've found suspicious. Plus, Hydrad is usually quite active and posting a lot in all the other games I've been in with him. And he's been town in all those games. It could be a case of not knowing what to post as scum.
The wagon jumping point is somewhat mitigated by that being within his normal (town) meta, so take that as you will.
Yeah, I guess they could be fearing Watcher, Commuter, or Bodyguard (sort of).Oh, in this light ADK is actually quite a sensible kill. Someone who was towny and active, but not so much so that shooting them is likely to backfire due to a town pr.
Afraid of being Watched makes the most sense.
Yeah, I guess they could be fearing Watcher, Commuter, or Bodyguard (sort of).Oh, in this light ADK is actually quite a sensible kill. Someone who was towny and active, but not so much so that shooting them is likely to backfire due to a town pr.
Afraid of being Watched makes the most sense.
Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.
Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad
PPE 5
I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.
Vote: Ichi
Wow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.
Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.
Vote: Witherweaver
Okay.
Re-read faust as he had 2 votes on him at the last vote count. Some of his earlier posts came across as a tad ingenuine to me.Actually unvote. silverspawn is entertaining. I want to see where this goes.
Who else is scummy? Hydrad, I guess. Vote: Hydrad
PPE 5I do not buy the SK!silverspawn theory. The fact that Ichi finds it "highly plausible" is weird.
Vote: IchiWow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.
I don't know, I just kind of get the sense he was trying to find justification for placing votes, with the use of buzzwords such as "weird" and "crazy".Well... I don't think joth was particularly scummy here (neither townie though). Ichi I still feel could be scum. But who really troubles me is WW. He does basically the same things that Ichi was found scummy for in the first place (rolefishing with silverspawn, sheeping/hedging the SK!silverspawn case), then pushes Ichi for being too much within his meta and actually presses him to claim when he knows he isn't lynched. What's more, he does all this without getting even a single vote. WW's behaviour is easily the most scummy I've seen in my reread.
Vote: Witherweaver
I'm not convinced by his argument on WW, and again use of the word "troubled" sounds like he's trying to emulate how he is supposed to feel.
So Vote: faust for now.
That's not much, but it's something. I'm off to bed; I'll try to give more tomorrow after work.
I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.
What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.
What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Although I don't have a ton of votes on me at the moment, almost everyone has said that I'm probably the best lynch for today cause "information".
Wow. For someone dedicated to lynching me since forever, I can only assume that you're peeved at not being able to kill me.I'm not sure if there's a ton I can do to avert my lynch at the moment.
What is that, the hundredth time you've said that? And right now you have what, one vote on you?
Although I don't have a ton of votes on me at the moment, almost everyone has said that I'm probably the best lynch for today cause "information".
Also please show me where ANYONE BUT ME has said that.
Guys, this is the classic scum tell, thinking you're in more danger than you actually are.
Guys, this is the classic scum tell, thinking you're in more danger than you actually are.
This whole "I reread the biggest wagon (well, 2 votes) and found some reason to jump it" falls in the "so scummy it's hard to believe scum actually does that"-category.
This whole "I reread the biggest wagon (well, 2 votes) and found some reason to jump it" falls in the "so scummy it's hard to believe scum actually does that"-category.
Didn't you only have one vote?
IG's vote on Jimmm doesn't feel good.
WW and IG are my top choices for today at this point.
I guess Ichi's flip will be quite information for us now, if not anything else. I do share joth's concerns about the lack of claim though.
There you go. Most players have expressed a desire to lynch me, but it seems Eevee was the major person aside from you that made the same arguments about my informational flip.PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?No, but when you flip, it will be informational. :) Sheeping doesn't take away the information value, not at all. People took strong stances on you early, that's information.
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.
I had moved my vote to Silverspawn, and then to Hydrad.
PPE faust: Interesting. I want to hear how you think my meta relates to this game.
I made scum MVP the last time I was scum. And I coasted almost that whole game with very little suspicion.
Didn't mean it that way. I try to be humble, because of course I still make plenty of mistakes as any alignment. I guess what I meant by it is I think that I've proven myself to at least be not totally incompetent as scum, so I think some of the arguments against me do not have a ton of basis--especially given my meta of defending myself strongly regardless of alignment.I made scum MVP the last time I was scum. And I coasted almost that whole game with very little suspicion.
This is, aside from coming across as a bit arrogant, a bad argument.
I had moved my vote to Silverspawn, and then to Hydrad.
Right. But Jimmmmm explicitly stated that he reread me because I had two votes on me.
Jimmmmm, what do you think about everything that has gone down with Ichi?
How soon is the deadline?
Ha, I gotta start using that.I already trademarked it.
No, that really was Robz. Two years ago.Ha, I gotta start using that.I already trademarked it.
Just Kidding.No, that really was Robz. Two years ago.Ha, I gotta start using that.I already trademarked it.
It's also a silly argument. You are essentially saying "I'm so good at playing scum that the only way I would get votes is if I'm town. Get with the program." Sorry if we don't take your word for it. :)
How soon is the deadline?
Not soon, I don't think.
mail-mi -- are you still around for this game at least?
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game. Nevermind.I'm hurt you'd forget!
Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game. Nevermind.I'm hurt you'd forget!
If you get your will and I'm lynched, I'll be dead to everyone else too.Oh, he said e.. Eevee was in the game. Nevermind.I'm hurt you'd forget!
Once you started considering lynching me, you became dead to me.
Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything. He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.
He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.
Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything. He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.
He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.
That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.
Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything. He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.
He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.
That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.
Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Me too. So yeah, glad to hear there's no hard feelings and we wish yuma the best of everything.Nah. I don't think it's you at all. He outed in a game where I was scumpartners with him and then quit while he was modding a game I was in. You could probably make any number of cases, but I really think it was more to do with f.ds in general, not any specific person.Hey guys, just wanted to let everyone know I've heard from yuma outside of f.ds and there's no hard feelings or anything. He just felt it was important he quit f.ds cold turkey.
He's especially sorry to us in this game, he said, and wishes us all the best.
That makes me feel better. Even though I didn't get to know him much.
Although maybe he just hates me... my first game I played in was when he took his break. And then right when I started to mod ashers game he quit D:.
Ya I was more just pointing out a interesting fact. But I'm glad asher heard from him. Makes me feel better.
Anyway, (back to the game) I've said about all I can in my defense. I think Jimmmmm might be one of the better lynches of today--though I don't have many townreads that I trust. I'd also like to see silver at least get some heat (I keep saying this but it seems like claiming VT day 1 makes you golden I guess).
hmmmm ok nevermind, I know what I need to know thanks silver
Want to share?
I do! But it's not the right thing for town if I do. When I have some time (i.e. when I'm not at work) I'm going to re-read day 1 and see if anything jumps out.
Historically day 1 VT claims have had a terrible track record of surviving and a great track record of flipping town. Those were all way before silverspawn even joined f.ds, so I doubt he knew that.
Anyway, (back to the game) I've said about all I can in my defense. I think Jimmmmm might be one of the better lynches of today--though I don't have many townreads that I trust. I'd also like to see silver at least get some heat (I keep saying this but it seems like claiming VT day 1 makes you golden I guess).
One thing I will say is if I see someone claim VT in a game in the future I won't react this way as they might of seen it work and try it again. As a first time when I havn't seen anyone else do it I feel like scum wouldn't do it. (I know me personally am never going to be bold enough to try something like that).
Okay, just re-read all of D2.I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's.
jotheonah is the big voice of the day. He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum. I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz. I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
Sent the message prematurely, finished the last sentence for clarity.Okay, just re-read all of D2.I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's and I'm worried your description becomes a self-filling prophecy.
jotheonah is the big voice of the day. He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum. I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz. I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
And it should of course say self-fulfilling. Self-filling is.. something else.Sent the message prematurely, finished the last sentence for clarity.Okay, just re-read all of D2.I wouldn't necessarily agree with this assessment. Not that I'm saying joth is playing bad if he is town, but I don't see anyone "following his lead" here, really. Sure, he is the most active and has strong opinions, but since it seems very up in the air who we are lynching still, I'm hesitant to call him the "leading voice of day 2". I'd say the leading voice was whoever we wound up listening to, and this far joth's cases haven't really gotten the necessary support. Maybe this is just because my reads are vastly different from joth's and I'm worried your description becomes a self-filling prophecy.
jotheonah is the big voice of the day. He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum. I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz. I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
I guess you are right -- he's not yet being followed.Why do you say yet? Do you think he will be?
I do think he's the main voice being heard today, though. And that could be what he wants. I mean, he denounced the XP wagon harshly today, and yet he was on it. That's a classic scum move if he'd been able to stay off the wagon, but not as much while actually being a part of it. It's the little things like that which worry me.
But at this point, I think he's not the right lynch for today.
I guess you are right -- he's not yet being followed.
I do think he's the main voice being heard today, though. And that could be what he wants. I mean, he denounced the XP wagon harshly today, and yet he was on it. That's a classic scum move if he'd been able to stay off the wagon, but not as much while actually being a part of it. It's the little things like that which worry me.
But at this point, I think he's not the right lynch for today.
Okay, just re-read all of D2.
jotheonah is the big voice of the day. He's either playing a great town game, or faking it as scum. I know that's a non-statement, but I'm wary of joth ever since the blitz performance he had with Robz. I'm inclined to say we should follow his lead for now, but be ready to turn on him if he leads us down the mislynch path too easily.
Eevee is around, basically his normal buddying self. That used to be a tell, but not anymore. I'm not giving him a town read at this time.
Jimmmmm's few posts have been scummy, but so few that it could just feel scummy.
IG is impossible to fairly assess now. I do think his lynch isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure he's scum or anything. He's done some scummy stuff, but he reminds me of me in the early days just being scummy towny.
WW/Teproc are blending together. That's normally a bad thing.
Faust is reminding me a bit of his Dune performance, so I'm wary.
I have no firm town reads, I guess. That's sort of scary. I got little out of analyzing the dead players, given they are not scum (so much better when we hit scum on D1). I think a lynch sooner rather than later is good for D2.
Are we at the point where we want to know the setup we're in? It's easily done with a semi-claim plan.
I don't think it's time for even a semi claim yet. We've managed to keep even a single PR from being outed so far.
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...
What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.
What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.
What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
2nd him = I don't really trust joth much at this point.Hey! No stalling! I know you guys are on the forums...Ash is difficult for me to read. He seems about normal here, although I don't like his comments on joth leading the day since I don't really trust him much at this point.
What does everyone think about ashersky, now that he's posted a bit more?
Ambiguous pronoun.
So you agreed with what Ash's comment said about Joth.. not that you didn't like the comment in a meta sense.I don't think that joth has so far had a ton of success in swaying people, but he has been vocal and active and has some supporters.
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest. If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest. If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.
He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.
I got what I thought was a ton of unfair heat early there as well. I really disliked what I saw as faust using pure dice rolls as evidence to lynch people, so we argued a lot about that.I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest. If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.
He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.
How did you feel about Day 1 of Dice Mafia?
I more meant about the day ending prematurely.Oh. I guess we did lynch scum!Voltaire pretty early in that game. And it looks like Ash quickhammered him that day.
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town. (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)
Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town. (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)
I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
I don't see Joth as scummy in the slightest. If he didn't want to lynch you, would he be scummy?My read on him isn't OMGUS if that's what you mean.
I don't care for the attitude that he had D1 when he made some arguments about derphammering which I thought were kind of ludicrous. Trying to end any day super early is not good for town (barring PR results or something). So although his motivation to try and end things super quick may just be part of his meta, I see it as anti-town behavior.
He's not the scummiest, but I don't feel very confident that he's town either. I could easily see his behavior up until now as bold scum play.
;)Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town. (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)
I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
;)Well, it serves as an example that a quick day is not always bad for town. (Well, unless you think it was bad for town there.)
I don't think Ichi is concerned with what's bad for town here.
Ash quickhammered Voltaire without even letting him claim and his instinct proved to be right that game. It could have just as easily been a mislynch or Volt could even have been a town PR. I am not saying that a quick day is bad in all circumstances. But when I see myself on the fast road to a mislynch and people proclaiming the numerous benefits of hammering people on accident and voting without giving any reasons, a quick day looks pretty bad to me.
There's a line between having too much discussion so scum can confuse people and gradually push the cases they want, and having too little so town has very little evidence from flips and not many people committed to wagons or had possible partner interactions. With all that went on D1, I think that having someone end the day at the point when joth was making all of these arguments would have been a very poor choice.
Clearly what everyone is saying is that as long as I'm the one to end the day early, we're all good.
WAIT I KNOW! ASH IS SCUM! TOWN ASH WOULD HAVE HAMMERED
now we let this game stall until shortly before the deadline, when we will, due to lack of time, lynch you.Sounds like you've given this a lot of thought. . .
Well I have posted my thoughts already. I think you're scum. In fact, I think it's over 50%. I also think Hydrad could very well be scum.
I don't know how to keep a game from stalling on my own. I don't have anything new to say.
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.
If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.
If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.
If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...
Do scum really line up mislynches like this? I feel like it's one of those things that is always pointed out as a scum tell, but scum never actually do. Though, Silver is new enough that he may not be aware of how often it's jumped on.
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.Man, what is the case on me really?
If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
I think we can do better than a lurker lynch. I mean, I think lurkers shouldn't always get away with just doing nothing, but in this game, the Ichi case is too good to do it.
If Ichi flips town, we can do Jimmm tomorrow.
I have no idea what's so good about the Ichi case. And, lining up mislynches? I might be warming up for a silver lynch...
Do scum really line up mislynches like this? I feel like it's one of those things that is always pointed out as a scum tell, but scum never actually do. Though, Silver is new enough that he may not be aware of how often it's jumped on.
Well, from my experience, when I'm scum, I think a lot about who can potentially be mislynched on future days... and "lining up" mislynches for me basically is these thoughts diffusing into posts.
Yeah, let's start some wagons.
Vote: Jimmmmm
But aren't you careful not to let it into your posts?
But aren't you careful not to let it into your posts?
Well, that really depends... As scum, I usually try not to overthink what I'm doing, so that my behaviour looks more natural. I actually think I was called out in my first game as mafia (M31) for this exact thing - lining up mislynches. Since then I obviously got more experience and now I wouldn't do something like that as either alignment.
The thing about silverspawn is, in previous games he made it very clear that a major element of his play is to look townie. So I think if he knew this scum tell, he would have been careful not to let is in his post even if he's town. So we have to assume he didn't know about it. And in this case, I think it's a thought that scum is much more likely to have, because they know it's going to be a mislynch. As town, I want to lynch and see the flip and then do analysis from there and not just lynch the next player not regarding the new information I gained.
but yea, i didn't know about this scum tell. I assume what you are referring to is that I said "we can do Jimmm tomorrow if IG flips town", right?
this whole argument flies out the window if he turns out to be a good lynch though.
Quotethis whole argument flies out the window if he turns out to be a good lynch though.
you aren't responding to this. if we lynch jimmm today (which might happen, as it looks now) and he flips scum, you will drop the case, yes?
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
QuoteI've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
are you using the present perfect because you are not town in this game?
QuoteI've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
are you using the present perfect because you are not town in this game?
No. More like I haven't thought about who I'm going to lynch the next day at all this game. I'm just trying to lynch someone and after we have more info then i try to figure out who is the next scum.
We could all just lynch Hydrad....I'd definitely prefer that over myself. However, I do end up mislynching him quite often. What's the case on him again?
We could all just lynch Hydrad....I'd definitely prefer that over myself. However, I do end up mislynching him quite often. What's the case on him again?
but yea, i didn't know about this scum tell. I assume what you are referring to is that I said "we can do Jimmm tomorrow if IG flips town", right?
Yes, that's what I'm referring to.
Oh, and: prod time!
Request prod on Hydrad
Request prod on jotheonah
Request prod on Jimmmmm
Why is WW that towny?My question exactly.
It's incredible, we even remotely agree only on silverspawn and Ichi. Well, I guess I'd have ash somewhere in the middle too.
At least some more people are around, so silver's plan of having the game stall and proxy mislynching me hopefully won't come to fulfillment.
It's not fair to say "no one is listening you". Ichi has been the largest wagon most of the game! Just doesn't seem to go through.
I don't have a town read on Jimmm, but it feels like we can do better than just lynching the guy with the least posts. I find it impossible to read Jimmm with this level of activity.
this could honestly be a scum slip. I'm not sure it is, but it could be. I already thought you were scum before though.
Ash is also incredibly quiet this game... he's back from VLA now, right?
no way that was a scumslip.
Quoteno way that was a scumslip.
no? Why not?
I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.makes perfect sense for town?
just to make sure we're talking about the same thing
this sentenceQuoteI've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.makes perfect sense for town?
well I know I would never post it as town. But my perception is different from others, you thought I scum slipped in GoT mafia (well not you because you were modding), and I thought that was completely insane. I could see myself using this sentence if you cut the "as town" part. Or using a different time. But as is, i could see it being scum who didn't think enough for one moment.
just to make sure we're talking about the same thing
this sentenceQuoteI've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.makes perfect sense for town?
well I know I would never post it as town. But my perception is different from others, you thought I scum slipped in GoT mafia (well not you because you were modding), and I thought that was completely insane. I could see myself using this sentence if you cut the "as town" part. Or using a different time. But as is, i could see it being scum who didn't think enough for one moment.
question for silverspawn voters: do you think he's mafia or SK? Because mostly we've been talking about him as a possible SK because otherwise his day 1 VT claim seems too bold.
[/quote
I think he's scum.
Eevee, you're not voting. Who do you want lynched?I could have sworn I was on IG. I would prefer WW, but he doesn't seem viable.
Quote fail.
What I want to say is, I don't really know how to differentiate between SK and mafia before we've had a flip to look for partners. Why is the VT claim bolder for mafia than it is for the SK?
I wasn't 100% sure you were joking. People have made some serious arguments this game that last minute lynches can be good because there's little time for scum to manipulate things. As it stands, I probably will be lynched if the game goes close to the deadline without much development, so if it's my mislynch you really want, that's one way to get it.QuoteAt least some more people are around, so silver's plan of having the game stall and proxy mislynching me hopefully won't come to fulfillment.
I think it was pretty obvious that I wasn't serious with that. So why are you treating it as though I was?
Ah I apologize for not posting more. I still like the Jimmm lynch the most.
as for the possible silver lining up lynches I don't think looking into it is a huge thing? I've had many thoughts like that as town but I usually don't post it.
I'm not loving a Hydrad lynch. He's new-ish, not particularly scummy, and I feel that if he's scum, we are much more likely to catch him eventually than we are to catch, say, Jimmmmm.
Hah, keep making fun of it. Once the game is over, I'm sure Hydrad will admit that he did in fact slip there. Okay, I'm not sure. But it might happen.
Had no internet at home yesterday.Ok. What lynch do you prefer best right now?
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?
That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?
That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?
Yeah, I was just wondering if you had something that indicated to you that he was scum.
Or are you proposing that it would be good to eliminate that possible risk?
That was mainly my concern yes... if Jimmmmm keeps posting at this rate, how will we ever find out about his alignment?
Yeah, I was just wondering if you had something that indicated to you that he was scum.
Well, his earlier attack on me felt weird... but that's that only thing, really.
I'm around now, off to bed soon and probably won't be around at deadline.
Then move your vote off of ash
Then move your vote off of ash
Why off of ash in particular?
Because deadline is in 10 hours and ash isn't getting lynched.Then move your vote off of ash
Why off of ash in particular?
I think hydrad may be happening
vote: Hydrad
I think hydrad may be happening
vote: Hydrad
See this is exactly what I didn't want to see happening. Stick to your guns, silver! Let's make Ichi the default lynch!
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
Why Hydrad? Serious question, has there even been a case?I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
For whys?!
L-1I agree with the principle, but it's pretty likely Ichi isn't a pr here.
I didn't think it would be that close. Whew. don't hammer.
Why Hydrad? Serious question, has there even been a case?I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
For whys?!
Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?
Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?
I'll give it a go. Letting Ichi get away and last-minute lynching Hydrad feels extremely reminiscent of the ending of day 1 to me and I have no reason to believe it will end differently.
Someone being on most everybody's "would lynch" list is a pretty good indication they're town anyway.
why investigate ashersky?He's probably the hardest person for me to read in this game, and I think he's a very strong town player especially when people don't doubt his alignment. This doesn't completely clear him, but it mostly does to me.
Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe. But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1? Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later. I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town. I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later." That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies. Ichi has been scum, like, once?
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.
Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.
Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)
Jimmm and you are my first 2 ideas. :)
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.
Do you have any great ideas on who is scum? :)
Jimmm and you are my first 2 ideas. :)
Any good ideas?
Why Jimmmmmmmmm?
WW I've never seen you tunnel on someone this hard. Are you even considering if anyone else could be scum? do you have an ideas of who my partners would be if I was scum? It seems that no matter what happens at this point your just going to stick to the idea that I'm scum.
I say Hydrad.well duh
Hydrad, claim or I put my vote on you before I go afk. You got 15 minutes.
I mean, what are the chances that both Hydrad and Ichi are PR's? pretty low. If hydrad claims a PR, chances are he is just scum. If he is a VT, we don't give any information away. And we want to lynch hydrad, so he will have to claim anyway.
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK? Someone said it was SK.
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
okay
Mafia Goon
okay
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK? Someone said it was SK.
I think SK has 2shot JOAT also.
would scum!Hydrad claim VT? WW, any strong opinion here?
You did just tell him "I'm not believing you if you claim a PR".
guys I may have been hasty in my town read on silverspawn
Mechanics:
- All roles will be used according to mafiascum specification unless otherwise noted below.
- Daystart
- Mafia JOAT is an option of Strongman and Ninja (each can only be used once) and is not an assigned role, instead it is universal for the mafia team. But is instead a role that any alive mafia player can use it while performing the night kill.
- Mafia Investigation Immune is universal. It will return results of "Not Goon" to Goon Cops, "Not Killed" to Detectives, "Can't Kill" to Psychologists and "Didn't Target Anyone" to Watchers.
- Traitor does not know the identity of Mafia Partners unless it is added on as a bonus. Traitor will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in a PM if that add-on is selected.
- Mafia does not know the identity of the Traitor unless it is added on as a bonus. The Mafia will be informed at day start of the Mafia's identities in their quicktopic if that add-on is selected.
- Flavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
- When the Traitor dies, if at least one Mafia Goon is still alive one will be chosen at random to inherit the Roleblocking role. This Goon will be transformed from a Goon to a Mafia Roleblocker.
- If the Mafia target the Traitor with a NK, the Traitor will not die unless mafia is using a strongman kill. Otherwise, the Traitor will be recruited and become a Mafia Roleblocker and be given access to the quicktopic.
- The Traitor can Roleblock a Mafia NK.
- If the Traitor will inherit the NK and become a Mafia Roleblocker if is the only Mafia player alive.
- Goon Cop will return results of Goon or Not Goon.
- Detective will return results of having killed or not killed.
- Psychlogist will return results of being capable of killing or not capable. But if a kill has been performed previously, the result will be falsified. Traitors are not capable of killing until they have been converted into Mafia Roleblockers
- Roles cannot target themselves.
- Roles will not be indicative of alignment, except for one exception that will not be disclosed. All other roles will be rolled randomly.
- Mafia will have fakeclaims.
- Mafia will have fakeclaims.
Huh, uh... why would you assume that?
I assumed it meant roles, because this looks like a setup where it's very hard for Mafia to fake claim a PR.
Mafia does have fakeclaims (-> setup), so there is no reason why it could not be made up. But it's a pretty strong role, so I'd be okay with not lynching him today.
Me or Ichi?
Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe. But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1? Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later. I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town. I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later." That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies. Ichi has been scum, like, once?
Investigating Ash makes sense.. it's probably what I would do here, unless I had reason to do something different based on how Day 1 went. Especially this game, Ash is showing nothing (to me) that looks like scum!Ash or town!Ash, so I'd definitely want to know.
PPE: 2
To clarify here are the 8 options:
1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
Mafia does have fakeclaims (-> setup), so there is no reason why it could not be made up. But it's a pretty strong role, so I'd be okay with not lynching him today.Me or Ichi?
Okay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe. But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1? Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later. I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town. I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later." That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies. Ichi has been scum, like, once?
Investigating Ash makes sense.. it's probably what I would do here, unless I had reason to do something different based on how Day 1 went. Especially this game, Ash is showing nothing (to me) that looks like scum!Ash or town!Ash, so I'd definitely want to know.
PPE: 2
These are the two posts that mention fakeclaims. Either they are town slips, not realizing how a matrix setup is supposed to work, or scumslips because they actually know how the fake claims worked.
Mine was specifically founded upon the line "Mafia will have fakeclaims." line in the setup, which I took to mean roles.
Mine was specifically founded upon the line "Mafia will have fakeclaims." line in the setup, which I took to mean roles.
Well, I mean, that's what you have to say, right?
Generally speaking, I think I believe you. But you are scary, so it could be a planned townslip for sure.
Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.
Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.
Well I don't like Hydrad, I'm very lukewarm about Jimmm and you or joth don't seem viable.Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.
Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.
Huh? Rly?
I understand IG is a long shot too, but there is the advantage that we verify his result if he flips town. I could see him being more aware and in control of the situation than he let on yesterday and now realizing fakeclaim is a strong play for scum (which it is, especially in a seemingly hopeless situation such as IG's).
That theory did need to be killed, so I'm glad to hear!I understand IG is a long shot too, but there is the advantage that we verify his result if he flips town. I could see him being more aware and in control of the situation than he let on yesterday and now realizing fakeclaim is a strong play for scum (which it is, especially in a seemingly hopeless situation such as IG's).
the things you say make sense and also pretty much kill my theory that you two are on a team together.
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.
My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/
It sucks to be backed into a lynch you never believed in because none of the ones you do have enough support.Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.
My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/
Italic part feels like a very scummy thing to say. It makes me think Jimmm is town and Eevee is scum.
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.
My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/
well, I got to go. But no way scum!Jimmmmm is actually just not around at deadline. I think Eevee and ash should switch to Hydrad.
One thing I will say is I think if people refuse to lynch Jimmm you should at least lynch me. I don't want us to have a no lynch today and then you just mislynch me tomorrow instead. I'd rather die today then have a no lynch happen.
One thing I will say is I think if people refuse to lynch Jimmm you should at least lynch me. I don't want us to have a no lynch today and then you just mislynch me tomorrow instead. I'd rather die today then have a no lynch happen.
If I come back at 7:29 and we have no lynch, I'll hammer Jimmmmm to avoid it.
Are you scum?
:(
Are you scum?
I take it that was a self-preservation hammer?
I take it back. Jimmmm's definitely scum.
I take it back. Jimmmm's definitely scum.
I still think Jimmm is scum.
Its dissapointing that about a 8 minute difference might cost us the game.
Explanations for no kill:Also.
JK jailkept mafia
Mafia shot BP townie
Mafia shot commuter who was commuting
Mafia didn't shoot
I worry that there's no IC or obv!town to direct a massclaim in a productive way.I agree. However, if I were to choose someone to direct it right now, I'd pick ash.
I wouldn't. Why ash?I worry that there's no IC or obv!town to direct a massclaim in a productive way.I agree. However, if I were to choose someone to direct it right now, I'd pick ash.
Because he's very good with setups and is more town to me than anyone else at this point.I wouldn't. Why ash?I worry that there's no IC or obv!town to direct a massclaim in a productive way.I agree. However, if I were to choose someone to direct it right now, I'd pick ash.
Explanations for no kill:Also.
JK jailkept mafia
Mafia shot BP townie
Mafia shot commuter who was commuting
Mafia didn't shoot
Mafia shot traitor and recruited them.
traitor roleblocked Mafia by accident.
Also, how does everyone feel about me revealing who I diagnosed last night?
Should I wait, or claim it right away?
I don't doubt ash's skills, but he could easily be scum.
I'd rather have WW do this, he was tunneling Hydrad. Or what about me? I could have easily put my vote on Jimmmm instead before going afk. Why do that as scum? just to do this argument?
Explanations for no kill:Also.
JK jailkept mafia
Mafia shot BP townie
Mafia shot commuter who was commuting
Mafia didn't shoot
Mafia shot traitor and recruited them.
traitor roleblocked Mafia by accident.
I think IG is right. And it's very possible he was the one who was shot and recruited.
I think a claim that confirms his claim would be very helpful.
Maybe Jimmmmm's also scum. And he quickhammered for town points and because he knew somebody was going down.
(I don't actually believe that, but it's possible)
I think this pretty much confirms no SK too, which is very good. Assuming IG's claim is true, that leaves us with these options:
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
I support a massclaim.
Also, how does everyone feel about me revealing who I diagnosed last night?I don't think you should claim right away.
Should I wait, or claim it right away?
Anyone with a role not on this list could claim and catch Ichi.
Anyone on this list could help confirm Ichi.
I think this pretty much confirms no SK too, which is very good. Assuming IG's claim is true, that leaves us with these options:
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
I support a massclaim.
I say limited claim for now.
Anyone with a role not on this list could claim and catch Ichi.
Anyone on this list could help confirm Ichi.
I think this pretty much confirms no SK too, which is very good. Assuming IG's claim is true, that leaves us with these options:
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
I support a massclaim.
I say limited claim for now.
Anyone with a role not on this list could claim and catch Ichi.
Anyone on this list could help confirm Ichi.
I think this pretty much confirms no SK too, which is very good. Assuming IG's claim is true, that leaves us with these options:
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
I support a massclaim.
Explanations for no kill:Also.
JK jailkept mafia
Mafia shot BP townie
Mafia shot commuter who was commuting
Mafia didn't shoot
Mafia shot traitor and recruited them.
traitor roleblocked Mafia by accident.
I think IG is right. And it's very possible he was the one who was shot and recruited.
I think a claim that confirms his claim would be very helpful.
I think if anyone has a role not on that list (i.e. a role that would out Ichi as a liar) they should claim.
If you are either a VT or a role in one of those three, you should post and say "no claim"
Once everyone's responded to that, we can consider having other PRs claim.
I think if anyone has a role not on that list (i.e. a role that would out Ichi as a liar) they should claim.
If you are either a VT or a role in one of those three, you should post and say "no claim"
Once everyone's responded to that, we can consider having other PRs claim.
I think if anyone has a role not on that list (i.e. a role that would out Ichi as a liar) they should claim.
If you are either a VT or a role in one of those three, you should post and say "no claim"
Once everyone's responded to that, we can consider having other PRs claim.
why don't we just massclaim?
I think if anyone has a role not on that list (i.e. a role that would out Ichi as a liar) they should claim.
If you are either a VT or a role in one of those three, you should post and say "no claim"
Once everyone's responded to that, we can consider having other PRs claim.
why don't we just massclaim?
Most of the powerful town roles are investigative in nature. If we can catch a scum while still allowing our Goon Cop or detective one more night to use their power, that seems better than the alternative.
Given that we know there are exactly 3 Town non-VTs, would it make sense to claim VT/non-VT? Maybe there's not much point given we already have one claim, but assuming no fakeclaims it does the job of creating ICs, and if we do get fakeclaims we can go from there.
I'd pick silverspawn.I worry that there's no IC or obv!town to direct a massclaim in a productive way.I agree. However, if I were to choose someone to direct it right now, I'd pick ash.
I think there's a mistake in the OP. Judging by the table, there's no such thing as a 1-shot BP Commuter.
I'd pick silverspawn.I worry that there's no IC or obv!town to direct a massclaim in a productive way.I agree. However, if I were to choose someone to direct it right now, I'd pick ash.
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
1-shot BP Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
Wait a second.. don't all the options have the same amount of PRs? So if
...
okay that's exactly what Jimmm said.Given that we know there are exactly 3 Town non-VTs, would it make sense to claim VT/non-VT? Maybe there's not much point given we already have one claim, but assuming no fakeclaims it does the job of creating ICs, and if we do get fakeclaims we can go from there.
so, if Eevee and WW claim VT, all PR claims are cleared, because then we have the right number of PR's - right?
If you think I am lying, think about this. I have zero motivation to do this as town. I'm not actually in trouble. There is no way I do this as town.
*scumIf you think I am lying, think about this. I have zero motivation to do this as town. I'm not actually in trouble. There is no way I do this as town.
Well thanks, this makes things very easy.
I mean, it's not even a mistyping... the quoted sentence makes sense as is and wouldn't make sense if you replace town by scum.are we really talking about this?
I have zero motivation to do this as scum. I'm not actually in trouble. There is no way I do this as scum
I mean, it's not even a mistyping... the quoted sentence makes sense as is and wouldn't make sense if you replace town by scum.are we really talking about this?QuoteI have zero motivation to do this as scum. I'm not actually in trouble. There is no way I do this as scum
The obvious motivation is: You want to prevent three town PRs from becoming ICs. Well, that's a pretty good motivation.it's not. there are two ways this can go
QuoteThe obvious motivation is: You want to prevent three town PRs from becoming ICs. Well, that's a pretty good motivation.it's not. there are two ways this can go
one: two PR claim roles that can't be in the same setup. if that's the case, you have proof right there that one is lying
two: one PR claims my role. If that's the case, you know 100% that either he is scum, or I am. That makes the other two players 100% IC, and you have a field of 2 players with 1 scum in them.
either case is good for town.
QuoteThe obvious motivation is: You want to prevent three town PRs from becoming ICs. Well, that's a pretty good motivation.it's not. there are two ways this can go
one: two PR claim roles that can't be in the same setup. if that's the case, you have proof right there that one is lying
two: one PR claims my role. If that's the case, you know 100% that either he is scum, or I am. That makes the other two players 100% IC, and you have a field of 2 players with 1 scum in them.
either case is good for town.
There are cases where you can have three claims which can't all be true, but each two can be in the same setup, I think... let me check.
this pairing?
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
that's not possible, because it has a SK. unless you are telling me that we have 1-kill and 0-kill with a SK in the setup
this pairing?
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
that's not possible, because it has a SK. unless you are telling me that we have 1-kill and 0-kill with a SK in the setup
Well, unlikely, I guess, but with JK, Roleblocker, 1-shot BP Serial Killer in the setup, it's not out of the question.
this pairing?
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
that's not possible, because it has a SK. unless you are telling me that we have 1-kill and 0-kill with a SK in the setup
Well, unlikely, I guess, but with JK, Roleblocker, 1-shot BP Serial Killer in the setup, it's not out of the question.
It doesn't matter. Do what I say, if one town dies, lynch me. That was, 2 mislynches are impossible.
Plus, if you really were town, you would never agree to this plan, because it's how town loses.I'm not agreeing to this plan, I am proposing it. This plan is how we will win the game.
QuotePlus, if you really were town, you would never agree to this plan, because it's how town loses.I'm not agreeing to this plan, I am proposing it. This plan is how we will win the game.
If we mislynch today, and lynch you tomorrow (assuming you are town), do you agree that scum will have won after you are lynched? (Barring JK and other stuff)
yea that's not happpening. this is how we do it:
1. Jimmmm claims. If he claims my role, we lynch him. If he claims Ichi's role, we lynch him. If he claims Joth's role, we lynch one of them. If none of that happens, we continue
2. joth claims.
3. I claim.
4. We now have 2 contradicting claims. We lynch one of them (not me). Every other PR is now an IC
I like faust's plan. I think silverspawn sacrificed his right to call the shots when he lied day 1.
You cannot guarantee that we will get two contradicting claim through that process.
where's the problem with my claim.
but FINE, let me study faust's plan. I see if there is any way it backfires. If not, we can do that too, even though it's really just complicating things.
where's the problem with my claim.
The problem is that you have now admitted to lying and I have no reason to trust you.
- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.
I forgot about this, again:- The SK may choose to give up NK and instead perform any one of the 8 town roles listed above during the night. Each role may only be used once by the Sk during the game.
Makes it more likely that we have a SK who for some reason decided against killing.
And people thought that post of mine was scummy. That's kind of annoying.Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.What was your reason for claiming VT?
I don't think I want to answer that.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).
Boy did I so see this coming.And people thought that post of mine was scummy. That's kind of annoying.Why not? This seems an incredibly odd response if you're really a VT.What was your reason for claiming VT?
I don't think I want to answer that.
It sounds much more like you're lying (as town or scum).
I'm fine with following faust's plan. I've already claimed, and whoever else claiming is just going to confirm me or out scum (though they may have already been outed).
I actually kind of doubt Silver is lying. But, I agree that he forfeited his right to direct things when he lied.
I actually kind of doubt Silver is lying. But, I agree that he forfeited his right to direct things when he lied.
I think maybe silver is lying. To prevent a triple IC scenario and out all our power roles.come on. We still have IC's, I thought I explained that. And the usage of outing Power roles isn't very big, since we know who has PR's anyway, just not who has which. plus, even if I am lying, faust's plan will turn out well for us.
1. Everyone with a role out of {Watcher, 1-shot BP, Goon Cop, Bodyguard} claims. If contradictions arise form this, we stop. If someone claimed, go to 2, if not, go to 3.
2. Anyone who can contradict the claimant claims. If noone does, massclaim, and we'll get two contradicting claims. We lynch one of them. Stop here.
3. The Detective claims. Why is that? Because at this point, we know that if Ichi tels the truth, there must be a Detective in the setup. If someone claims (and noone counterclaims), he's IC (either Ichi tells the truth, then there must be a Detective, there is only one; or Ichi lies, well then Ichi lies, and everyone else tells the truth). If noone claims, we lynch Ichi.
4. If this all didn't lead to anything, the rest does not need to claim, because it won't give us much further information. We lynch among Ichi and whoever didn't claim Detective.
I actually kind of doubt Silver is lying. But, I agree that he forfeited his right to direct things when he lied.
is that a policy argument?
I actually kind of doubt Silver is lying. But, I agree that he forfeited his right to direct things when he lied.
You mean you think silver is town? Yeah... his reaction to the pressure does not look particularly scummy.
what? is that an insider?I actually kind of doubt Silver is lying. But, I agree that he forfeited his right to direct things when he lied.
is that a policy argument?
I suppose it is. I still feel burned by Shrayeye.
I'll claim after silverspawn does.that's not faust's plan.
I'll claim after silverspawn does.that's not faust's plan.
I'm not one of those roles.
I think silver realised how bad 3 ICs is for scum and so fakeclaimed in a panic. I won't be directed by him and will claim to the extent that he does, after he does. That said:I'm not one of those roles.
I think silver realised how bad 3 ICs is for scum and so fakeclaimed in a panic. I won't be directed by him and will claim to the extent that he does, after he does. That said:I'm not one of those roles.
Ah, okay. But this is Faust's plan, not Silver's. Do you think Faust's plan won't help catch Silver if he's lying?
Okay. Wake me up when the claiming arguments are over.
Vote: Jimmmmm
Vote: Jimmmmm
Any kind of explanation?
Guys I have to go. Date with the ladyfriend tonight and she's not the biggest fan of me constantly checking in on my mafia games. Don't expect I'll be around to participate in claiming until at least tomorrow morning, so I'm going to go ahead and claim Not VT and On the Ichi list. (meaning my role does NOT contradict Ichi's claim)
So now I'm all set if you all go with my plan or Jimmmmm's plan. Bye!
I am non-VT and non-BP.
Okay, looks like I have to come clean.
My first post in this game was a lie. I'm a PR. Which means, there is scum among the claimed PR's in this game. I don't know why scum claimed PR here, but there's no doubt that they did.
This all would have been so much easier if we just did a massclaim. After everyone claimed his role, I could have known for sure who was lying. I would have full claimed, and we catch scum. But no, ash just had to suggest this half-claim plan.
It doesn't matter though. We need to claim now. Everyone with a PR needs to state his role. And I will full-claim last.
If you think I am lying, think about this. I have zero motivation to do this as town. I'm not actually in trouble. There is no way I do this as town. But if that's not enough, then at least follow me for today, and if we lose even one town, you can lynch me tomorrow. We won't though. Just do what I say here, and we win.
Well, maybe the odd massclaiming thing included the 1-Shot BP thing?yea, it was one of the roles faust listed. so I really answered that already.
Final Vote Count
Jimmmmm (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn, ashersky, Jimmmmm
Okay, with some consideration, here is the ultimate claiming plan. This depends on whether we even want to claim - there are reasonable arguments to be made against claiming, I think - but if we claim, this is how we should do it:
1. Everyone with a role out of {Watcher, 1-shot BP, Goon Cop, Bodyguard} claims. If contradictions arise form this, we stop. If someone claimed, go to 2, if not, go to 3.
2. Anyone who can contradict the claimant claims. If noone does, massclaim, and we'll get two contradicting claims. We lynch one of them. Stop here.
3. The Detective claims. Why is that? Because at this point, we know that if Ichi tels the truth, there must be a Detective in the setup. If someone claims (and noone counterclaims), he's IC (either Ichi tells the truth, then there must be a Detective, there is only one; or Ichi lies, well then Ichi lies, and everyone else tells the truth). If noone claims, we lynch Ichi.
4. If this all didn't lead to anything, the rest does not need to claim, because it won't give us much further information. We lynch among Ichi and whoever didn't claim Detective.
guys. ash. let us just do faust's plan. it will all work out. we have needlessly complicated this enough already.
I'm actually leaning toward no claiming, and lynching based on actions.
Scummiest, based on play:
IG > silverspawn > Jimmmmm > jotheonah
IG: off-wagon, early pressure claim
SS: LIED
Jimmmmm: lurking, could be intentionally obscuring his play
joth: towny, destroyed Hydrad
Now, any of these could be a Traitor who doesn't know his partners, but that's just a risk.
I'm actually leaning toward no claiming, and lynching based on actions.
Scummiest, based on play:
IG > silverspawn > Jimmmmm > jotheonah
IG: off-wagon, early pressure claim
SS: LIED
Jimmmmm: lurking, could be intentionally obscuring his play
joth: towny, destroyed Hydrad
Now, any of these could be a Traitor who doesn't know his partners, but that's just a risk.
This is by far the most anti town post I've ever seen you make
I don't think faust's pan can even backfire.
It doesn't matter. we have to claim. we got this game in the back, if we just go ahead and DO it. you already prevented the original massclaim. don't do it again.
After faust proposed his plan, I asked who has a problem with it. You didn't say anything. I think you lost your right co sabotage it there.
...
I think silver realised how bad 3 ICs is for scum and so fakeclaimed in a panic. I won't be directed by him and will claim to the extent that he does, after he does.
...
Care to expand?
I mean, it's most likely Jimmm anyway. what kind of post is this
QuoteI think silver realised how bad 3 ICs is for scum and so fakeclaimed in a panic. I won't be directed by him and will claim to the extent that he does, after he does.
what? every setup has 3 PR's. if they all claim and no scum claims PR, they have 3 IC's. If anything, it's a planed move, though that would be pretty stupid. it can't be panicking, unless I literally spend zero thought on the setup and just now realized that it can lead to IC's.
This is all so stupid, I almost want to just claim and get it over with. But that's not the best thing, so I'm asking others for their opinions here.
do you agree that we should follow faust's plan and win the game, or do you think we should something really stupid and anti town, like follow ahs's lead and don't claim?
1. Detective, 1-shot Commuter, Goon Cop; 1-shot Investigation Immune + Serial Killer
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
5. Watcher, 1-shot BP Townie, 1-shot BP Commuter; 2-shot JOAT
8. Goon Cop, Psychologist, Bodyguard; 1-shot Investigation Immune
Did I ever say we shouldn't claim? I opened today with a suggestion to massclaim and so far I'm following faust's plan exactly.
I think each PR should decide on their own if they think a claim is worthwhile.
Each PR can look at the possible setups and decide if there are specific combinations work testing for. If you play Hearthstone, this is dropping your 1 mana minion to test for Mirror Image before dropping your big one.
It has been shown that claiming at this point doesn't catch anyone. I don't know why anyone would push so hard for everyone to claim now that we know it's useless (in the context of finding the fake claim). Someone claiming Detective now just let's scum know who is what.
Why is this not clear? Sure, if two of the three claim the same role, then woo hoo. But that would be fairly stupid, given scum know the actual setup within 2 groupings no matter what.
QuoteDid I ever say we shouldn't claim? I opened today with a suggestion to massclaim and so far I'm following faust's plan exactly.
you are not following faust's plan, because you didn't follow #1. I said I'm not one of those roles, joth said it, you didn't.
I did.
2. Anyone who can contradict the claimant claims. If noone does, massclaim, and we'll get two contradicting claims. We lynch one of them. Stop here.
Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
I think each PR should decide on their own if they think a claim is worthwhile.
Each PR can look at the possible setups and decide if there are specific combinations work testing for. If you play Hearthstone, this is dropping your 1 mana minion to test for Mirror Image before dropping your big one.
It has been shown that claiming at this point doesn't catch anyone. I don't know why anyone would push so hard for everyone to claim now that we know it's useless (in the context of finding the fake claim). Someone claiming Detective now just let's scum know who is what.
Why is this not clear? Sure, if two of the three claim the same role, then woo hoo. But that would be fairly stupid, given scum know the actual setup within 2 groupings no matter what.
Really? We have guaranteed one scum in four and you don't think we should try to catch scum/create ICs within that group?
Oh, and this is the setup we're playing:QuoteWatcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
I knew this the whole time, so all of the complicated setup talk was completely unnecessary. either joth or Jimmmm is the watcher. that could be good results too.
I don't believe Silver is scum here. If he is, he's become much better at it since Game of Thrones.
I also don't think Ash is anti-town here. If you think this is anti-town, you don't know Ash.
Which means either Ichi or silver is scum (if I'm Town).
1-shot Commuter. I believe I breadcrumbed early on, which is actually a first for me.
1-shot Commuter. I believe I breadcrumbed early on, which is actually a first for me.
Someone's going to ask if you've commuted. I would not answer (unless at L-1 or lynched, I guess).
1-shot Commuter. I believe I breadcrumbed early on, which is actually a first for me.
Someone's going to ask if you've commuted. I would not answer (unless at L-1 or lynched, I guess).
I guess you could be the reason no one died last night, but really, why would ANYONE shoot you? (No offense.)
1-shot Commuter. I believe I breadcrumbed early on, which is actually a first for me.
Someone's going to ask if you've commuted. I would not answer (unless at L-1 or lynched, I guess).
Actually, Ash, how often do we lynch Jimmmm? I can remember... none. In fact, in every game I played with him I think he was around until LyLo.
Oh, I had a thought some time ago.Mm. Not sure if that's neccesarry. From my role PM, I feel very certain that I would receive an unable to kill result on an unrecruited traitor--since they don't have the capability to kill at the time I diagnose them.
Mafia Traitor technically can't kill unless he is recruited or all other Mafia die (which is like being recruited). So if Psych investigates him before recruitment, does he get not capable of killing?
Ichi, can you ask mod what you would get in this situation? (That is, investigating Mafia traitor if he is not recruited and while other Mafia is alive.)
Oh, I had a thought some time ago.Mm. Not sure if that's neccesarry. From my role PM, I feel very certain that I would receive an unable to kill result on an unrecruited traitor--since they don't have the capability to kill at the time I diagnose them.
Mafia Traitor technically can't kill unless he is recruited or all other Mafia die (which is like being recruited). So if Psych investigates him before recruitment, does he get not capable of killing?
Ichi, can you ask mod what you would get in this situation? (That is, investigating Mafia traitor if he is not recruited and while other Mafia is alive.)
Actually, Ash, how often do we lynch Jimmmm? I can remember... none. In fact, in every game I played with him I think he was around until LyLo.
He is quite the survivor, but I don't think that's an alignment tell. He's been at lylo often, as both alignments.
Oh, I had a thought some time ago.Mm. Not sure if that's neccesarry. From my role PM, I feel very certain that I would receive an unable to kill result on an unrecruited traitor--since they don't have the capability to kill at the time I diagnose them.
Mafia Traitor technically can't kill unless he is recruited or all other Mafia die (which is like being recruited). So if Psych investigates him before recruitment, does he get not capable of killing?
Ichi, can you ask mod what you would get in this situation? (That is, investigating Mafia traitor if he is not recruited and while other Mafia is alive.)
Okay, that's what I assumed, but I wanted to be sure. That's something to keep in mind.. Ichi's result clears up to:
(1) Investigation Immune. (By the way, are the shots passive?)
(2) Traitor that isn't recruited.
If Ichi and Silver are telling the truth:
2. Watcher, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; 2-shot JOAT
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
If Ichi and Jimmmmm are telling the truth:
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
If Silver and Jimmmmm are telling the truth:
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
I also hate day 1 and am a big fan of getting it over with as quickly as possible. So, I'm not for sure locked in but vote: Ichimaru until someone convinces me otherwise.
If Ichi, Silver, joth are telling the truth:
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
If Ichi, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
If Silver, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
And we have three viable setups for four claims.
I'm calling Ichi-Eevee-Hydrad as the team, though with the traitor there's one more. Seems to fit the facts pretty well? It means Ichi took a chance claiming psychologist, but given how many times he hit L1, that doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
I'm calling Ichi-Eevee-Hydrad as the team, though with the traitor there's one more. Seems to fit the facts pretty well? It means Ichi took a chance claiming psychologist, but given how many times he hit L1, that doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
If Ichi, Silver, joth are telling the truth:
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
If Ichi, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
If Silver, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
And we have three viable setups for four claims.
I think this is very helpful honestly. It's got to be silver or ichi. #4 is the most likely because it seems so unlikely we have a serial killer.
On the other hand, silver's claim explains my lack of an investigative result last night. It also greatly implicates Eevee, who was protecting Hydrad last turn, as the third scum team member (given the no kill)
Maybe, and this is a little crazy, we lynch Eevee and none of the claimed PRs. That way there's no risk of accidentally killing one of our PRs tonight.
Ok, you're Ichi. You're the traitor. You know who the mafia are, so you know you're in:
3. 1-shot BP Townie, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard; Traitor Knows Mafia
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
No psychologist. It was safe from counterclaims.
I'm feeling pretty confident. I would like to lynch Ichi or Eevee today, the other one tomorrow, and then win the game.
Also, we don't want to kill silver. Because if he's telling the truth, he can jailkeep the same person again tonight and they won't even be able to make a kill.
Ichi, result?I diagnosed jothenoah last night and was told he was unable to kill. I picked him since he was one of the scummier players to me at the time--and he's received pretty low suspicion. Also, from what I can tell, he's a strong town player (when he is in fact town), so semi-confirming his alignment would hopefully make people listen to him more.
If there's no SK, there's guaranteed scum in me/silver.And this of course contradicts with the earlier logic 100%. No way scum AND the SK tried to kill me..
Vote Count 2.4So, this was the situation 12 hours prior to the deadline. We didn't just default to a Hydrad lynch, someone made it happen and hopefully more people than myself tried to oppose it.
Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (3): jotheonah, silverspawn, Eevee
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): faust, ashersky
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
That's in 12 hours!
admin note: I may or may not be on at deadline. If not, you can expect a flip by 10:00PM forum time (unless it happens sooner)
I think hydrad may be happening
vote: Hydrad
See this is exactly what I didn't want to see happening. Stick to your guns, silver! Let's make Ichi the default lynch!
This negates some of the town points from silver. Jimm also looks worse.I prefer Ichi to Hydrad. Vote: Ichi
well then I'll
vote: Ichi
aswell
Joth defending Hydrad some more.Can anyone (other than Hydrad) convince why I should not vote for Hydrad?
I'll give it a go. Letting Ichi get away and last-minute lynching Hydrad feels extremely reminiscent of the ending of day 1 to me and I have no reason to believe it will end differently.
Someone being on most everybody's "would lynch" list is a pretty good indication they're town anyway.
yea so, let's just do Ichi. He is at L-1.Had silver stayed on Hydrad the entire time, I think it would have gone long ways towards clearing him. Now, not so much.
Yeah, the first towny push on Hydrad has now changed to trying to get us into other direction. Silver not feeling towny anymore.QuoteOkay, setup says scum get safe fake claims, so maybe. But why wouldn't he use his fake claim Day 1? Scum mentality would be to claim so that he wouldn't get lynched.. worry about arguing why he's still alive later. I don't think he'd be so forward thinking to think "Well, if I really was an investigator, I wouldn't claim with no result because that doesn't help town. I'd try to fight my lynch and claim with something useful later." That's much more likely to come from town, and would only come from scum if they're thinking really big picture with all the contingencies. Ichi has been scum, like, once?
This is a good point.
unvote
If Ichi is not scum, that makes me feel worse about the Hydrad lynch too. So, at this point, maybe Jimmm is the best option.
vote: Hydrad
That's L-3. He only has two votes (WW and me)
vote: HydradSilver and Joth then revive the Hydrad wagon (towny).
WW makes some good points. We can worry about IG tomorrow if he survives the night.
Well, that was unnecessary.faust's first contribution to this. scummy, this was a very pivotal point.
Vote: Jimmmmm for now.
That said, I'll hammer if needed before deadline.Not a good look for ash, another person trying to push us to Jimm.
We have some time for talking though.
Jimmmmm, are you around?
well, I got to go. But no way scum!Jimmmmm is actually just not around at deadline. I think Eevee and ash should switch to Hydrad.Town points for joth.
vote: hydradTown points for ash, nothing really changed but he went back to Hydrad, knowing that Jimmm would likely hammer him if he appeared.
Jimmmmm (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Hydrad (4): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn, ashersky
Ichimaru Gin (1): Jimmmmm
Hydrad also at L-1. If Jimmmmm returns, I expect he'd hammer out of self-preservation...
If Ichi, Silver, joth are telling the truth:
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
If Ichi, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
4. 1-shot Commuter, Psychologist, Detective; Mafia Knows Traitor
If Silver, Jimmmmm, joth are telling the truth:
7. 1-shot Commuter, Jailkeeper, Detective; Traitor Knows Mafia + Serial Killer
On the other hand, we could jailkeep Eevee to confirm stuff. But that's bad, right? Because the Traitor can just roleblock silver if Eevee is scum. So it has to be a lynch.
Ichi, result?I diagnosed jothenoah last night and was told he was unable to kill. I picked him since he was one of the scummier players to me at the time--and he's received pretty low suspicion. Also, from what I can tell, he's a strong town player (when he is in fact town), so semi-confirming his alignment would hopefully make people listen to him more.
How is there no death tonight though? Either the SK performed another option, and mafia got blocked, or (more likely) mafia shot the SK/SK got blocked. Which implies Eevee.
A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
Are we assuming there's a SK?
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.well see my post. There are 3 possibilities
QuoteThat's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.well see my post. There are 3 possibilities
#1 a town!BP didn't claim
#2 a town!Watcher didn't claim
#3 we have a SK
#1 and #2 would just be incredibly anti town. there's no discussion here. town!watcher or BP has no reason not to claim. so, there must be a SK.
Also, suspecting me of being a SK because I defended hydrad makes no sense. How have I veen scummy otherwise?
QuoteAlso, suspecting me of being a SK because I defended hydrad makes no sense. How have I veen scummy otherwise?
I think you're the SK because I was putting you in prison last night? didn't you notice? well, and if scum tried to kill you, which would be at least kind of possible, and you tried to kill someone else, I stopped both kills by putting you imprison. No idea why I released you for today though.
#4 (and this one's a biggie) you're scum
Should I claim now? Weirdly, my claim corroborates silver's story but my role doesn't match up with his claim. I investigated Eevee last night and got "No result" which would seem to suggest he really was jailkept.
But I am, in fact, the Detective.
I actually investigated silver night one -- he did not kill night one. I also breadcrumbed early and can point it out if need be.
Quote#4 (and this one's a biggie) you're scum
yea of course, as I said, If I were one of you, I'd lynch me because no SK is just way more likely.
Although, I guess thisShould I claim now? Weirdly, my claim corroborates silver's story but my role doesn't match up with his claim. I investigated Eevee last night and got "No result" which would seem to suggest he really was jailkept.
But I am, in fact, the Detective.
I actually investigated silver night one -- he did not kill night one. I also breadcrumbed early and can point it out if need be.
kind of clears me, so maybe I wouldn't. But the most was from my perspective. I know for a fact that there is a SK now.
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
Are we assuming there's a SK?
jo's claim doesn't clear you at all.it kind of does, he investigated me N1, and I probably would have done the kill as scum, but more importantly, he received no result on Eevee, and I put him in prison. furthermore, I claimed that before Joth. Is that even possible otherwise?
Should I claim now? Weirdly, my claim corroborates silver's story but my role doesn't match up with his claim. I investigated Eevee last night and got "No result" which would seem to suggest he really was jailkept.
But I am, in fact, the Detective.
I actually investigated silver night one -- he did not kill night one. I also breadcrumbed early and can point it out if need be.
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
Are we assuming there's a SK?
Well, the only scenario where there's no SK is where silver is scum... in that case, we can lynch you and, if you're town, at least strongly consider silver.
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
Are we assuming there's a SK?
Well, the only scenario where there's no SK is where silver is scum... in that case, we can lynch you and, if you're town, at least strongly consider silver.
Why would silver being scum lead you to lynch me?
That's how I'm reading faust's and silver's previous posts.A musing... lynching the SK today clears silver. This points slightly towards lynching a VT, as I think the SK is almost certainly to be found there.
Are we assuming there's a SK?
Well, the only scenario where there's no SK is where silver is scum... in that case, we can lynch you and, if you're town, at least strongly consider silver.
Why would silver being scum lead you to lynch me?
pretty sure "you" meant "Eevee" here.
Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
I don't understand!Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
during James Bond mafia, Voltaire was buddying me the whole time. Then I started suspecting him, and when he was about to get lynched, he voted me, only to flip scum immediately. pretty sure the exact same thing is happening here.
the problem here really is that you buddying me is just so opportunistic. we get along great outside of this game, you are known for buddying, I am a new player, it's just such an obvious move. And you were overdoing it, I mean I claimed VT day 1. where is it coming from? And, if you really had such a strong town read on me, why would you change your mind now? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't think I've been buddying you, I've had a town read on you based on your actions. Now, new information comes to light, I'm either forced to believe there is a serial killer and we are missing 3 kills in 2 nights, or that I was wrong about you, and you didn't actually lie about being a vt because you are a power role but you lied about being a vt because you are scum.I mean, this is exactly what I was saying earlier. If it was coming from anyone else, I'd totally believe it. But since everyone else is suddenly starting to believe me, how come the player with the strongest town read on me previously is the first one to vote?
Step in my shoes, I'm a VT. What would you believe?Well I already answered this. If I was one of you, I would vote for me, because I wouldn't believe in the existence of a SK. But if I were you, I would not have buddied me in the first place - (I think you did, maybe that's debatable). I am not you though. You are you. You can try to push my lynch now, if you're a VT, that's probably the best thing you can do. But I'm like 95% that you're not town at this point.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
You aren't making any sense buddy. I had a townread on you until it was a) revealed that your VT claim was a lie and b) you being town would require rather extraordinary circumstances (3/4 kills being somehow blocked). You think my position is suspicious somehow, what?QuoteI don't think I've been buddying you, I've had a town read on you based on your actions. Now, new information comes to light, I'm either forced to believe there is a serial killer and we are missing 3 kills in 2 nights, or that I was wrong about you, and you didn't actually lie about being a vt because you are a power role but you lied about being a vt because you are scum.I mean, this is exactly what I was saying earlier. If it was coming from anyone else, I'd totally believe it. But since everyone else is suddenly starting to believe me, how come the player with the strongest town read on me previously is the first one to vote?QuoteStep in my shoes, I'm a VT. What would you believe?Well I already answered this. If I was one of you, I would vote for me, because I wouldn't believe in the existence of a SK. But if I were you, I would not have buddied me in the first place - (I think you did, maybe that's debatable). I am not you though. You are you. You can try to push my lynch now, if you're a VT, that's probably the best thing you can do. But I'm like 95% that you're not town at this point.
I'm more and more feeling silverspawn and faust for scum.
I'm more and more feeling silverspawn and faust for scum.
What reason does scum!silver have to claim VT at game start?
I think there's another argument - if I am town, we have 3 Players left to lynch. But if I were scum, ther'd be a SK, and only 2 players left to lynch.
So, let's say you kill Eevee today.
If he flips town, I know that the game is lost, because there are only 7 Players left, at least one will die in the night, and 3 of them are anti town. Which means, I don't care what happens then anyway. If Eevee is VT, I think we just lose. But you will assume that I am scum, so you will lynch me. And if I were scum, it would be like this:
8 players
lynch Eevee -> 7 players
NK -> 6 players
lynch me -> 5 players
NK -> 4 players
that's still MYLO, but it's probably a decent spot to be in, all things considered. you still have PR's left, so you can nolynch, forcing a situation with 3 players. and maybe the detective can create ICs or something.
I hope my thought process here isn't too complicated. The argument here is basically that the scum!me scenario warrants an Eevee lynch. WW was saying something similar before I think.
I think there's another argument - if I am town, we have 3 Players left to lynch. But if I were scum, ther'd be a SK, and only 2 players left to lynch.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
If claiming VT automatically made people town, scum would be doing it more often.I'm more and more feeling silverspawn and faust for scum.
What reason does scum!silver have to claim VT at game start?
If someone is pre-emptively making arguments, it's silverspawn. First he says "If I were you, I'd lynch me", but then he suspects me for wanting to lynch him. Weird.Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
I don't know how I should judge the fact that you're making an argument that can easily be turned against you. Seems townie, but could be a preemptive strike of scum thinking "someone will make that argument eventually, better if it's me".
You are right that Ichi looks quite townie through this. And if Ichi is town, it's 50/50 between you and silver, which is probably even better odds than between Eevee/silver...
If claiming VT automatically made people town, scum would be doing it more often.I'm more and more feeling silverspawn and faust for scum.
What reason does scum!silver have to claim VT at game start?
Not getting shot by the SK springs to mind as one potential reason. Good old fancy play syndrome as another. Who do you think is scum, out of the claimants?
If someone is pre-emptively making arguments, it's silverspawn. First he says "If I were you, I'd lynch me", but then he suspects me for wanting to lynch him. Weird.
QuoteI don't think I've been buddying you, I've had a town read on you based on your actions. Now, new information comes to light, I'm either forced to believe there is a serial killer and we are missing 3 kills in 2 nights, or that I was wrong about you, and you didn't actually lie about being a vt because you are a power role but you lied about being a vt because you are scum.I mean, this is exactly what I was saying earlier. If it was coming from anyone else, I'd totally believe it. But since everyone else is suddenly starting to believe me, how come the player with the strongest town read on me previously is the first one to vote?QuoteStep in my shoes, I'm a VT. What would you believe?Well I already answered this. If I was one of you, I would vote for me, because I wouldn't believe in the existence of a SK. But if I were you, I would not have buddied me in the first place - (I think you did, maybe that's debatable). I am not you though. You are you. You can try to push my lynch now, if you're a VT, that's probably the best thing you can do. But I'm like 95% that you're not town at this point.
Worst part about lynching me would be that it wouldn't give us any new info. At least if we guess wrong among the claimants, we face an easier decision tomorrow. I think having me flip VT would pretty much just doom us.
I think silver is already heavily implicated!Worst part about lynching me would be that it wouldn't give us any new info. At least if we guess wrong among the claimants, we face an easier decision tomorrow. I think having me flip VT would pretty much just doom us.
Having you flip VT would heavily implicate silver.
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
I don't know how I should judge the fact that you're making an argument that can easily be turned against you. Seems townie, but could be a preemptive strike of scum thinking "someone will make that argument eventually, better if it's me".
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
Thanks. :)
When we only had 3 PR claims and it didn't look like we were going to have another one, I could be certain (based on jo and Ichi being ICs and Ichi claiming Psychologist) that jo was the Detective. He couldn't know for sure I was the Commuter unless he assumed no SK. I was debating the merits of claiming Detective and faking some results (dangerous I know but worst case my flip would clear it up). The point being that jo would, knowing that I'm Town and lying about my role, see what I was doing and figure that I knew he was the Detective and I was therefore the Commuter, and then he would claim Commuter so that our claims didn't contradict scum's add-on. The point of all of this being that I would then hopefully draw the NK, giving jo an extra Night to get results.
Of course, jo may not have received the message I would have been trying to send. It felt a bit like Hanabi.
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
Thanks. :)
When we only had 3 PR claims and it didn't look like we were going to have another one, I could be certain (based on jo and Ichi being ICs and Ichi claiming Psychologist) that jo was the Detective. He couldn't know for sure I was the Commuter unless he assumed no SK. I was debating the merits of claiming Detective and faking some results (dangerous I know but worst case my flip would clear it up). The point being that jo would, knowing that I'm Town and lying about my role, see what I was doing and figure that I knew he was the Detective and I was therefore the Commuter, and then he would claim Commuter so that our claims didn't contradict scum's add-on. The point of all of this being that I would then hopefully draw the NK, giving jo an extra Night to get results.
Of course, jo may not have received the message I would have been trying to send. It felt a bit like Hanabi.
Wow... I think a post like that would be really, really hard to fake as scum.
Also, nice thinking. That would have been awesome had it worked out.
I want to point out that just because scum outnumbers us, they don't win automatically - SK and Mafia can kill off each other. But yes, it's no longer in our hands then.
6. Detective, Jailkeeper, Psychologist; Mafia Knows Traitor + Serial Killer
Why does me voting you tell you that I'm scum?
You said it yourself, if you were us, you'd lynch yourself. How can you possibly find it proof of me being scum that I think it's far more likely that you are scum than it is that we have a SK?
so, we really have a SK. I thought this was extremely unlikely. like, a few percent or something. in james bond mafia, I knew voltaire was lying, because his claim could only be true in a scenario with 0 randomed T's, which was less than 1%. This is similar. One one-kill night - okay, but a 0-kill night AND a 1-kill night? well, it happened. This is like the first time there's a real reason to mistrust me, and now you're starting to believe me. I don't get it. If I were you, I'd kill me based on the fact that me lying is the only scenario without a SK.
You said it yourself, if you were us, you'd lynch yourself. How can you possibly find it proof of me being scum that I think it's far more likely that you are scum than it is that we have a SK?I said that, and then you voted for me. Both the "then" and the "you" are suspicious about that. Why should you be the first person to find that scummy? Why not faust, WW, ash, joth? And why didn't you vote for me before I posted it? It just looks like you took it as an excuse.
I don't think you are making sense, but arguing with scum tends to be pretty pointless. It's not like you are ever going to convince them to confess.
yes, because I didn't realize the only setup where you could be truthful would be one with a serial killer before you said it!QuoteYou said it yourself, if you were us, you'd lynch yourself. How can you possibly find it proof of me being scum that I think it's far more likely that you are scum than it is that we have a SK?I said that, and then you voted for me. Both the "then" and the "you" are suspicious about that. Why should you be the first person to find that scummy? Why not faust, WW, ash, joth? And why didn't you vote for me before I posted it? It just looks like you took it as an excuse.
But even if that argument doesn't convince you, fact remains that a no-kill happened after I imprisoned you. At LyLo, that's more than enough reason to lynch you. There is no way I can change to someone else. That would just be horrible play.
Right, that's all true if you are what you claim. What I'm saying is you must be lying.QuoteYou said it yourself, if you were us, you'd lynch yourself. How can you possibly find it proof of me being scum that I think it's far more likely that you are scum than it is that we have a SK?I said that, and then you voted for me. Both the "then" and the "you" are suspicious about that. Why should you be the first person to find that scummy? Why not faust, WW, ash, joth? And why didn't you vote for me before I posted it? It just looks like you took it as an excuse.
But even if that argument doesn't convince you, fact remains that a no-kill happened after I imprisoned you. At LyLo, that's more than enough reason to lynch you. There is no way I can change to someone else. That would just be horrible play.
Right, that's all true if you are what you claim. What I'm saying is you must be lying.
I mean you have to stick to your guns. I just don't think the reasons you are giving make any sense. My explanation for that is that they aren't real because you aren't actually a jailkeeper. You created these "damning circumstances" for me with your claim. I'm saying I don't think your claim is truthful.QuoteI don't think you are making sense, but arguing with scum tends to be pretty pointless. It's not like you are ever going to convince them to confess.
In my situation, would you lynch for someone other than you?
No. Of course not. So, really, saying that I don't make sense is pretty absurd.
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
Thanks. :)
When we only had 3 PR claims and it didn't look like we were going to have another one, I could be certain (based on jo and Ichi being ICs and Ichi claiming Psychologist) that jo was the Detective. He couldn't know for sure I was the Commuter unless he assumed no SK. I was debating the merits of claiming Detective and faking some results (dangerous I know but worst case my flip would clear it up). The point being that jo would, knowing that I'm Town and lying about my role, see what I was doing and figure that I knew he was the Detective and I was therefore the Commuter, and then he would claim Commuter so that our claims didn't contradict scum's add-on. The point of all of this being that I would then hopefully draw the NK, giving jo an extra Night to get results.
Of course, jo may not have received the message I would have been trying to send. It felt a bit like Hanabi.
I mean, is there any scenario where we are both truthful here? Genuine question.yea, there is. If there wasn't, I would know 100% that you're scum. I'm only about 95%.
For me it would require that either I was shot by both factions or that Jimm commuted and one/both factions shot him?QuoteI mean, is there any scenario where we are both truthful here? Genuine question.yea, there is. If there wasn't, I would know 100% that you're scum. I'm only about 95%.
If silver is lying about being the jailkeeper, where could tonight's kill have gone?
Well, a lot happened.
Um.. Joth gets no result. Possibilities:
(1) Joth is Roleblocked by Mafia Traitor
(2) Joth's Target (Eevee, right?) used an investigation immune. This means either SK with JOAT or Mafia. I haven't been following all the setup possibilities. Is 1-shot investigation immune addon to mafia possible? What does it imply about our claims?
(3) Eevee is lying Town and used 1-shot commuter (and therefore Jimmmm is scum), but I refuse to believe this possibility.
That's it, right? Eevee still could be Jailkept by Silver, it just doesn't explain Joth's result.
I think (1) is just as likely as (2). Joth's posts did kind of indicate he had a PR, and he was incredibly townie, so he's a natural choice for Roleblocking.
Gut-wise, I feel worse about Ichi. Eevee doesn't seem so bad after the latest bunch of posts. Jimmmm's argument on Ichi vs. Silverspawn makes sense, but my gut tells me Ichi is more of a liar-liar-pants-on-fire than Silver is. (Despite Silver already admitting to lying~)
Ichi targeted Joth when he had no good reason to. If (1) is true, Joth really was targeted by Roleblocker. Ichi could be afraid of Watcher so he wants to admit his target truthfully. (Did he know there was no Watcher when he made his claim?) I have to check plausibility in that, but
Vote: Ichi
for now. I've done exactly this, as scum, in Innovation. I had to fake claim a target on someone because I really did target them and I was afraid they were Watched.
I mean, is there any scenario where we are both truthful here? Genuine question.
I don't really think we're in a situation for gut reads. If Ichi is mafia, he would know that there's no Watcher.
None of those feel very likely though. Man. Seems something unlikely has happened.If silver is lying about being the jailkeeper, where could tonight's kill have gone?
Three options:
1. Scum targeted Jimmmmm who commuted. Given what Jimmmmm said so far, I doubt he commuted, so that not it.
2. The Traitor accidentally roleblocked his partner.
3. Scum chose to no kill for WIFOM and to make silver's claim believable.
I think 3 is most likely, though 2 is also an option.
What do you make of the fact that it's very hard for both me and silver to be town? Like very, very hard.
What do you make of the fact that it's very hard for both me and silver to be town? Like very, very hard.
I know I didn't kill anyone, but silver is claiming I was jailkept and that's why we are missing kills. I could see a serial killer shooting me, but why would mafia ever do that?What do you make of the fact that it's very hard for both me and silver to be town? Like very, very hard.
Why was this again? Because the lack of a kill?
None of those feel very likely though. Man. Seems something unlikely has happened.If silver is lying about being the jailkeeper, where could tonight's kill have gone?
Three options:
1. Scum targeted Jimmmmm who commuted. Given what Jimmmmm said so far, I doubt he commuted, so that not it.
2. The Traitor accidentally roleblocked his partner.
3. Scum chose to no kill for WIFOM and to make silver's claim believable.
I think 3 is most likely, though 2 is also an option.
Possibilities on no kill:
(I) NO SK:
(1) Eevee was the target by Mafia and Silver is telling the truth. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
(2) Eevee was the killer and Silver is telling the truth. Makes more sense.
(3) Jimmmm was the target and commuted
(4) Traitor did not know Mafia and Roleblocked killer. (Unlikely I think.)
(II) SK:
(1) Eevee was the target by SK and Silver is telling the truth. Still seems unlikely.. does it make sense for SK to target Eevee here?
(2) All of (1--4) by Mafia and SK chose to not kill in order to use an ability. (Investigation immunity, for instance. Or is that passive?)
(3) All of (1--4) by Mafia and SK also shot the same target. Also unlikely.
All these cases are getting a bit rough. Can someone make a table of each PR lying and what it means for the setup, specifically SK/no SK?
PPE: Faust. Also has a point on Jailkeeping that can be added to above.
Mafia Investigation Immune is universal. It will return results of "Not Goon" to Goon Cops, "Not Killed" to Detectives, "Can't Kill" to Psychologists and "Didn't Target Anyone" to Watchers.
(2) Joth's Target (Eevee, right?) used an investigation immune. This means either SK with JOAT or Mafia. I haven't been following all the setup possibilities. Is 1-shot investigation immune addon to mafia possible? What does it imply about our claims?
Hey, what if the SK shot me, trying to hit mafia?
Still wouldn't explain where mafia's kill went, though.
Hey, what if the SK shot me, trying to hit mafia?
Still wouldn't explain where mafia's kill went, though.
Why would SK want to shoot you, though? Isn't it better for them to hit town here?
OH YEAH.. keep on forgetting, Mafia could have shot their Traitor and recruited him.
Oooooh so the missing mafia kill could be them recruiting the traitor?
Hey, what if the SK shot me, trying to hit mafia?
Still wouldn't explain where mafia's kill went, though.
Why would SK want to shoot you, though? Isn't it better for them to hit town here?
OH YEAH.. keep on forgetting, Mafia could have shot their Traitor and recruited him.
Note that this is only possible if Mafia doesn't know the Traitor (they wouldn't shoot him otherwise, would they?), which is only if Ichi lies.
Hey, what if the SK shot me, trying to hit mafia?
Still wouldn't explain where mafia's kill went, though.
Why would SK want to shoot you, though? Isn't it better for them to hit town here?
OH YEAH.. keep on forgetting, Mafia could have shot their Traitor and recruited him.
Note that this is only possible if Mafia doesn't know the Traitor (they wouldn't shoot him otherwise, would they?), which is only if Ichi lies.
Didn't someone argue it was a sensible move to intentionally recruit earlier?
Why? Sorry, I'm really having trouble following this.Oooooh so the missing mafia kill could be them recruiting the traitor?
Not if silver lies.
Why? Sorry, I'm really having trouble following this.Oooooh so the missing mafia kill could be them recruiting the traitor?
Not if silver lies.
The problem with that argument for me is that something unlikely clearly must have happened. The other conditions seem less unlikely than this, so I wouldn't rule it out completely.Why? Sorry, I'm really having trouble following this.Oooooh so the missing mafia kill could be them recruiting the traitor?
Not if silver lies.
If silver lies, Mafia knows the Traitor. I argue that mafia wouldn't purposefully shoot the Traitor.
Eevee is the SK. I put him in jail - you're welcome - and that stopped kills. there's your explanation. why did it stop 2 kills? well, I don't know, maybe scum thought he was a good option for a safe kill. Maybe mafia did recruit the traitor, in that case Ichi is lying. maybe the traitor blocked the kill.
Eevee is the SK. I put him in jail - you're welcome - and that stopped kills. there's your explanation. why did it stop 2 kills? well, I don't know, maybe scum thought he was a good option for a safe kill. Maybe mafia did recruit the traitor, in that case Ichi is lying. maybe the traitor blocked the kill.
Any scenario has to explain both no kill last night AND conftown!Joth receiving "No Result".
QuoteAny scenario has to explain both no kill last night AND conftown!Joth receiving "No Result".
right. it's still more plausible then any scenario where I'm not JK. so scum probably shot Eevee and Traitor roleblocked Joth.
But why would scum shoot Eevee? Instead of more obvious town choices.. me, Joth, even Ichi if he's telling the truth.
QuoteBut why would scum shoot Eevee? Instead of more obvious town choices.. me, Joth, even Ichi if he's telling the truth.
well, the obvious explanation would be that they were afraid of me "doctoring" any of you.
Eevee is the SK. I put him in jail - you're welcome - and that stopped kills. there's your explanation. why did it stop 2 kills? well, I don't know, maybe scum thought he was a good option for a safe kill. Maybe mafia did recruit the traitor, in that case Ichi is lying. maybe the traitor blocked the kill.
Well, traitor could not have blocked the kill, because Traitor had to have Roleblocked Joth.
Unless SK!Eevee chose to commute.
Any scenario has to explain both no kill last night AND conftown!Joth receiving "No Result".
Eevee is the SK. I put him in jail - you're welcome - and that stopped kills. there's your explanation. why did it stop 2 kills? well, I don't know, maybe scum thought he was a good option for a safe kill. Maybe mafia did recruit the traitor, in that case Ichi is lying. maybe the traitor blocked the kill.
Well, traitor could not have blocked the kill, because Traitor had to have Roleblocked Joth.
Unless SK!Eevee chose to commute.
Any scenario has to explain both no kill last night AND conftown!Joth receiving "No Result".
ANyone want to figure what would have happened if Eevee tried to commute and silver tried to jail him?
QuoteBut why would scum shoot Eevee? Instead of more obvious town choices.. me, Joth, even Ichi if he's telling the truth.
well, the obvious explanation would be that they were afraid of me "doctoring" any of you.
No one had claimed yet, though, except Ichi. Would they even know JK is in the setup?
Ok, another point to consider. We have 8 surviving townies -- 4 claimed PRs and 4 claimed VTs. If there's no SK, we know there's one scum in each group.
BUT if there's a serial killer, we know that there are two scum in the VT group. Given that, lynching a VT gives us a 50/50 shot at scum, even not taking into account the evidence. If we lynch Eevee, the scummiest VT in the scenario where there is an SK, I just really like our chances, plus then scum has to leave alive either me or silver, which is quite helpful.
How about worst-case analysis if Eevee ends up town?We still don't really know anything, and lose. :\
How about worst-case analysis if Eevee ends up town?We still don't really know anything, and lose. :\
I don't know. I've been trying to find a scenario I find plausible that fits the claims and my role pm, but they all seem so far-fetched. I'm notoriously bad with setup stuff though.How about worst-case analysis if Eevee ends up town?We still don't really know anything, and lose. :\
We won't lose with one mislynch. Is it really true that we won't know anything more?
If there was something to know, I should know it already. I'm not arguing any specific scenario because I don't have a clue.How about worst-case analysis if Eevee ends up town?We still don't really know anything, and lose. :\
We won't lose with one mislynch. Is it really true that we won't know anything more?
which is sad and depressing, it's a 100% chance
e, if someone targeted a jailkept player with an investigative action, would they get a result?
Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
I was going to do Joth's Detective claim, and I still might, but it just seems so incredibly unlikely that it's a lie unless he's supporting another fake claim...
If it's Setup #1, both Ichi and Silver are lying.
If it's Setup #4, Silver is lying.
If it's Setup #6, Jimmmmm is lying.
If it's Setup #7, Ichi is lying.
Ichi and Silver get 50% chance of lying, Jimmmm gets 25%.
Wow, ashersky, that was really really helpful!Interesting post.
Vote: IG This makes more sense than silver, because at least with silver being truthful we have some explanation for the missing kills. It's not the likeliest explanation, but it's pretty clear something unlikely has happened at this point.
Wow, ashersky, that was really really helpful!Interesting post.
Vote: IG This makes more sense than silver, because at least with silver being truthful we have some explanation for the missing kills. It's not the likeliest explanation, but it's pretty clear something unlikely has happened at this point.
I appreciate Ashersky's analysis and the conclusion that he comes to which is it is either me or silver who is lying. Unfortunately, he has decided that it would be better to lynch someone who has gotten unfair suspicion this entire game and nearly mislynched by scum multiple times, over a known liar (in the context of this game) who is going to get away with one of the biggest scum plays I've ever seen.
Not too sure if there's a ton I can do to avert this. I've made my claim and done my best to offer town what information and reads I have. Eevee is of course going to join my wagon to save himself.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
ash, that's a big wall of posts for a very wrong conclusion.Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
False.
If Ichi was a Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup, he knew that the Town PRs are either Commuter, JK and Detective (Column 3) or BP, JK and Bodyguard (Row 3). In the case of Column 3, which we now know is the real one if Ichi is lying, then he's fine, Psychologist is a safe claim.
But in the case of Row 3, Psychologist would be an absolutely disastrous claim. The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
So a Traitor in TKM would absolutely not claim Psychologist without more information about what other roles are present.
ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy.
Wow, ashersky, that was really really helpful!
If Ichi was a Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup, he knew that the Town PRs are either Commuter, JK and Detective (Column 3) or BP, JK and Bodyguard (Row 3).that's right
In the case of Column 3, which we now know is the real one if Ichi is lying, then he's fine, Psychologist is a safe claim.yes
But in the case of Row 3, [...] The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.that's right too.
So a Traitor in TKM would absolutely not claim Psychologist without more information about what other roles are present.So, the argument here is that, although he does not immediately get counterclaimed, his claim is still not good because it requires two of the other claimers to be false in order to be true. The other claims only require one claim to be false - the psychologist claim. Then they are in Row3. So, upon analyzing it, we would come to the conclusion that his claim is false, and lynch him, which means he really only had 50% safeclaim chance, not 100%.
We also knew this before, differently, since we tested for BP Townie before the full claim.uh... what? Ichi claimed before we asked for BP's. I don't get what you mean here.
I appreciate Ashersky's analysis and the conclusion that he comes to which is it is either me or silver who is lying. Unfortunately, he has decided that it would be better to lynch someone who has gotten unfair suspicion this entire game and nearly mislynched by scum multiple times, over a known liar (in the context of this game) who is going to get away with one of the biggest scum plays I've ever seen.
Not too sure if there's a ton I can do to avert this. I've made my claim and done my best to offer town what information and reads I have. Eevee is of course going to join my wagon to save himself.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
ash, that's a big wall of posts for a very wrong conclusion.Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
False.
If Ichi was a Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup, he knew that the Town PRs are either Commuter, JK and Detective (Column 3) or BP, JK and Bodyguard (Row 3). In the case of Column 3, which we now know is the real one if Ichi is lying, then he's fine, Psychologist is a safe claim.
But in the case of Row 3, Psychologist would be an absolutely disastrous claim. The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
So a Traitor in TKM would absolutely not claim Psychologist without more information about what other roles are present.
ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy.
I truly don't understand what you are talking about.
There are two possible setups with TKM, and neither have a psychologist in it. Do in either case, it is a safe claim because he can't be counter claimed. In no other case was it sensible to fake claim psychologist.
I don't see any of those three being "safe" in the sense Jimmmmm is arguing. In all cases, depending on which setup we are in, he gets caught 50% of the time.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
Also, don't feel good about Eevee. If silver tells the truth, Eevee is likely scum (probably mafia goon). He is now eagerly jumping the Ichi wagon, who would - by analysis - be his partner. This is basically a game-losing move if this is the scum team.Why does that make you feel bad about me?
You. I think IG's partner is most likely to be you.I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
The question here is actually quite interesting, really. People on the Ichi wagon, who do you think his partner is? Do you think it's Eevee? Because that makes no sense to me.
Also, don't feel good about Eevee. If silver tells the truth, Eevee is likely scum (probably mafia goon). He is now eagerly jumping the Ichi wagon, who would - by analysis - be his partner. This is basically a game-losing move if this is the scum team.Why does that make you feel bad about me?
You. I think IG's partner is most likely to be you.I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
The question here is actually quite interesting, really. People on the Ichi wagon, who do you think his partner is? Do you think it's Eevee? Because that makes no sense to me.
Vote Count 3.3
silverspawn (2): Jimmmmm, faust
Ichimaru Gin (3): ashersky, Eevee, silverspawn
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, jotheonah, witherweaver
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline for Day 3 will be Friday, October 27 at 5 pm forum time.
Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
The question here is actually quite interesting, really. People on the Ichi wagon, who do you think his partner is? Do you think it's Eevee? Because that makes no sense to me.
But in the case of Row 3, [...] The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
I don't understand why we are lynching from the PR pool. Let me lay out my reasoning again.
1) Even in the no SK scenario, the VT pool and the PR pool have one scum each, so neither is inherently better.
2) In the SK scenario, the VT pool is twice as likely to hit scum
3) While there's a lack of consensus on whether Ichi or Silver is scum in the PR pool, there seems to be pretty good agreement that Eevee is the partner (or the SK).
4) A PR mislynch here kills a PR, a VT mislynch kills a VT. Obviously the latter is preferable.
So it seems to me there are 4 good reasons to lynch Eevee and no good reasons (except I suppose information) to lynch a PR claim. Yet everyone is voting Ichi. Why?
vote: Eevee
I think Eevee is scum, and that he's fine with the lynch of his partner. he's in a bad spot, doing this might save him.
but even if you don't like ash's analysis, you can't really deny that the points he is making is valid. i mean, it's not really a matter of opinion.
acutally wait, does eevee even know that it is his partner if he is the goon? i think traitor knew mafia, not the other way. then it doesn't even matter.
I think Eevee is scum, and that he's fine with the lynch of his partner. he's in a bad spot, doing this might save him.
but even if you don't like ash's analysis, you can't really deny that the points he is making is valid. i mean, it's not really a matter of opinion.
No, Eevee lynching his partner here is a losing move. We lynch the Traitor, you block Eevee, we lynch Eevee, game over. Thinking that you wouldn't block him is pretty ridiculous. I don't believe in the Ichi/Eevee scum team.
I think he's right about the fact that Jimmmmmm is town. But I'm not seeing the argument for Ichi over you. Jimmmmm has pointed out why Traitor!Ichi claiming there doesn't make sense. Now one can say he didn't think it through, but by the same token, one can say you are scum and didn't think it through.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
The question here is actually quite interesting, really. People on the Ichi wagon, who do you think his partner is? Do you think it's Eevee? Because that makes no sense to me.
If Ichi is scum, he's very likely the Traitor. So he didn't have a "partner"; Hydrad did.
Why doesn't Eevee/Hydrad + Ichi make sense?
I think Eevee is scum, and that he's fine with the lynch of his partner. he's in a bad spot, doing this might save him.
but even if you don't like ash's analysis, you can't really deny that the points he is making is valid. i mean, it's not really a matter of opinion.
No, Eevee lynching his partner here is a losing move. We lynch the Traitor, you block Eevee, we lynch Eevee, game over. Thinking that you wouldn't block him is pretty ridiculous. I don't believe in the Ichi/Eevee scum team.
I think he's right about the fact that Jimmmmmm is town. But I'm not seeing the argument for Ichi over you. Jimmmmm has pointed out why Traitor!Ichi claiming there doesn't make sense. Now one can say he didn't think it through, but by the same token, one can say you are scum and didn't think it through.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
The question here is actually quite interesting, really. People on the Ichi wagon, who do you think his partner is? Do you think it's Eevee? Because that makes no sense to me.
If Ichi is scum, he's very likely the Traitor. So he didn't have a "partner"; Hydrad did.
Why doesn't Eevee/Hydrad + Ichi make sense?
But Traitor knows mafia in that scenario, no?
Well, let's see. If TKM, then mafia has no special powers and thus must know that it's TKM. There are 2 TKM scenarios; 1 includes a 1-shot BP. So the mafia we're in TKM/SK, and knows Ichi is lying. So if you're going for Eevee/Ichi, you'll have to swallow the fact that Eevee is knowingly voting his partner, when a mislynch today is the only way he has a chance to win.
PPE 2
Read my posts today, I think you'll deduce I don't know what setup we are in. :D
Look at that. His bus is already working.
Well, let's see. If TKM, then mafia has no special powers and thus must know that it's TKM. There are 2 TKM scenarios; 1 includes a 1-shot BP. So the mafia we're in TKM/SK, and knows Ichi is lying. So if you're going for Eevee/Ichi, you'll have to swallow the fact that Eevee is knowingly voting his partner, when a mislynch today is the only way he has a chance to win.
PPE 2
I absolutely buy that. Is it a risky bus? Yep. Is it working if it gets you to vote for silver instead of Eevee? Yep. Is Eevee good at mafia? Yep.
Well, let's see. If TKM, then mafia has no special powers and thus must know that it's TKM. There are 2 TKM scenarios; 1 includes a 1-shot BP. So the mafia we're in TKM/SK, and knows Ichi is lying. So if you're going for Eevee/Ichi, you'll have to swallow the fact that Eevee is knowingly voting his partner, when a mislynch today is the only way he has a chance to win.
PPE 2
I absolutely buy that. Is it a risky bus? Yep. Is it working if it gets you to vote for silver instead of Eevee? Yep. Is Eevee good at mafia? Yep.
Well... I'm fine with vote: Eevee. I prefer silver, but not sure that's happening.
Look at that. His bus is already working.
We can still have him jailkept. There is no way he gets out of this, as there is no way (I believe) Eevee gets out of this.
Which of course doesn't mean that Eevee must be town. He could easily be say, silver's partner.
I was going to do Joth's Detective claim, and I still might, but it just seems so incredibly unlikely that it's a lie unless he's supporting another fake claim...
If it's Setup #1, both Ichi and Silver are lying.
If it's Setup #4, Silver is lying.
If it's Setup #6, Jimmmmm is lying.
If it's Setup #7, Ichi is lying.
Ichi and Silver get 50% chance of lying, Jimmmm gets 25%.
I'll note that if it's Setup #1, the Goon Cop hasn't claimed, and that's ludicrious.
So really, 33.3% chance for each of them.
But then, if Jimmmmm is lying, so is Ichi, and we're missing claims.
So to me, it's 50% Ichi or Silver.
And based on my analysis, Ichi's the Traitor fakeclaiming or Silver was trying to out the real JK who doesn't exist.
vote: ichimaru gin
| Liar | Town PR1 | Town PR2 | Town PR3 | Mafia Addon | SK? |
| Ichimaru (Psychologist) | 1-Shot Commuter | Jailkeeper | Detective | Traitor Knows Mafia | Yes |
| Silverspawn (Jailkeeper) | 1-Shot Commuter | Psychologist | Detective | Traitor Knows Mafia | No |
| Jimmmmm (1-Shot Commuter) | Detective | Jailkeeper | Psychologist | Mafia Knows Traitor | Yes |
Well, let's see. If TKM, then mafia has no special powers and thus must know that it's TKM. There are 2 TKM scenarios; 1 includes a 1-shot BP. So the mafia we're in TKM/SK, and knows Ichi is lying. So if you're going for Eevee/Ichi, you'll have to swallow the fact that Eevee is knowingly voting his partner, when a mislynch today is the only way he has a chance to win.
PPE 2
I absolutely buy that. Is it a risky bus? Yep. Is it working if it gets you to vote for silver instead of Eevee? Yep. Is Eevee good at mafia? Yep.
Well... I'm fine with vote: Eevee. I prefer silver, but not sure that's happening.Look at that. His bus is already working.
We can still have him jailkept. There is no way he gets out of this, as there is no way (I believe) Eevee gets out of this.
Which of course doesn't mean that Eevee must be town. He could easily be say, silver's partner.
Silver/Eevee makes sense? Silver fake claims to Jailkeep his partner when there's no kill? And isn't Silver calling for Eevee's lynch?
Well, let's see. If TKM, then mafia has no special powers and thus must know that it's TKM. There are 2 TKM scenarios; 1 includes a 1-shot BP. So the mafia we're in TKM/SK, and knows Ichi is lying. So if you're going for Eevee/Ichi, you'll have to swallow the fact that Eevee is knowingly voting his partner, when a mislynch today is the only way he has a chance to win.
PPE 2
I absolutely buy that. Is it a risky bus? Yep. Is it working if it gets you to vote for silver instead of Eevee? Yep. Is Eevee good at mafia? Yep.
Well... I'm fine with vote: Eevee. I prefer silver, but not sure that's happening.Look at that. His bus is already working.
We can still have him jailkept. There is no way he gets out of this, as there is no way (I believe) Eevee gets out of this.
Which of course doesn't mean that Eevee must be town. He could easily be say, silver's partner.
Silver/Eevee makes sense? Silver fake claims to Jailkeep his partner when there's no kill? And isn't Silver calling for Eevee's lynch?
It would be a move to get one of them lynched so that the other one can get lots of towncred. Maybe Goon!Eevee recruited Traitor!silver, and they decided to get something out of the missing nightkill.
Maybe Eevee is not Silver's partner and Silver was just shot. Everyone thought he was not Mafia anyway.. the consensus (more or less) was if he was scum, then he was SK. So we wouldn't be lynching him until after Mafia. So good night kill target? Maybe.
Umm.. they didn't have time to plan this, right? Silver wouldn't join Eevee until today started, so they wouldn't have chat to coordinate.
Well, of interest, the only case where there is NOT an SK is Silverspawn lying. Silverspawn Roleblocks Joth? Jailkeeping is part Roleblocking, so maybe it's a sensible fake claim to make.
Well, of interest, the only case where there is NOT an SK is Silverspawn lying. Silverspawn Roleblocks Joth? Jailkeeping is part Roleblocking, so maybe it's a sensible fake claim to make.
But he didn't claim to jailkeep me, he claimed to jailkeep Eevee. I can't believe he knew I would investigate Eevee, although I suppose it's a good guess given Eevee's role in the Hydrad lynch.
But anyway, Eevee being jailkept doesn't explain my result after all. e says he'd follow yuma's set up. yuma's setup doesn't specify, but says it follows mafiascum in all cases where it doesn't specify. mafiascum say jailkeep stops kills and prevents the target from using their action, and that's it.
So if my investigation didn't fizzle because of Silver's actions, I must have been roleblocked by the traitor or targeted the SK using the commuter power.
Is there a case where mafia no-kills on purpose so that silver can claim JK and frame Eevee?
One thing that I think hasn't been brought up at all until now - it is possible that mafia knew there is a SK since N1 (if they did no kill ADK). Not sure how that factors into things.
Well, of interest, the only case where there is NOT an SK is Silverspawn lying. Silverspawn Roleblocks Joth? Jailkeeping is part Roleblocking, so maybe it's a sensible fake claim to make.
But he didn't claim to jailkeep me, he claimed to jailkeep Eevee. I can't believe he knew I would investigate Eevee, although I suppose it's a good guess given Eevee's role in the Hydrad lynch.
But anyway, Eevee being jailkept doesn't explain my result after all. e says he'd follow yuma's set up. yuma's setup doesn't specify, but says it follows mafiascum in all cases where it doesn't specify. mafiascum say jailkeep stops kills and prevents the target from using their action, and that's it.
So if my investigation didn't fizzle because of Silver's actions, I must have been roleblocked by the traitor or targeted the SK using the commuter power.
Is there a case where mafia no-kills on purpose so that silver can claim JK and frame Eevee?
Right, he claims to Jailkeep someone---Eevee---to blame for the lack of kill. In actuality he blocked you.
I mean, he does not FRAME his partner.
I mean, he does not FRAME his partner.
Yes... Eevee is not his partner. His real partner shot him and recruited him (accidentally).
I mean, he does not FRAME his partner.
Yes... Eevee is not his partner. His real partner shot him and recruited him (accidentally).
that means its you, faust, or ash. Ash has been impeccably townie today and I have a pretty townie read on you, so that leaves faust.
I find the tone of this post unnecessarily hostile.I appreciate Ashersky's analysis and the conclusion that he comes to which is it is either me or silver who is lying. Unfortunately, he has decided that it would be better to lynch someone who has gotten unfair suspicion this entire game and nearly mislynched by scum multiple times, over a known liar (in the context of this game) who is going to get away with one of the biggest scum plays I've ever seen.
Not too sure if there's a ton I can do to avert this. I've made my claim and done my best to offer town what information and reads I have. Eevee is of course going to join my wagon to save himself.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
Oh man, suck it up. I made a strategic decision to fake a non-PR. This argument is not even good if you accept that it's policy. If you can't handle this kind of thing, don't play mafia.
Keep in mind that we know silver didn't shoot night one. That doesn't by any means clear him, but I think if we're weighing the evidence on both sides of the silver/Ichi debate we can't leave it out.
That, by the way, is why I was more defensive of silver earlier in the game.
Really Ichi,Jimm scum => SK is maybe the biggest evidence against Silverspawn. We have to account for so few kills. Granted, with SK able to use town abilities instead of killing we may expect less, but 1 kill Night 1 and 0 kills Night 2 makes SK less likely.i don't follow, what do you mean?
For clarity:
Liar Town PR1 Town PR2 Town PR3 Mafia Addon SK? Ichimaru (Psychologist) 1-Shot Commuter Jailkeeper Detective Traitor Knows Mafia Yes Silverspawn (Jailkeeper) 1-Shot Commuter Psychologist Detective Traitor Knows Mafia No Jimmmmm (1-Shot Commuter) Detective Jailkeeper Psychologist Mafia Knows Traitor Yes
I find the tone of this post unnecessarily hostile.
Considering that you lied, it's pretty obvious that you don't understand how that is a horrible thing to do as town. It doesn't matter that you think it worked out for you. I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
There is nothing in my post indicating I "can't take it" (meaning your lying and anti-town play). I am only doing my best to express my opinion that you are scum and if you are town, you are not playing a pro-town game. Suggesting that I quite mafia for reasons that you have fabricated is uncalled for and illogical.QuoteI find the tone of this post unnecessarily hostile.
Considering that you lied, it's pretty obvious that you don't understand how that is a horrible thing to do as town. It doesn't matter that you think it worked out for you. I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
I find the argument deserves a hostile response. you seem to be stuck in the mindset that a lie from town is anti town in all situations, and you stick to that despite the blatant facts.
if you think I'm scum, you can vote for me. but if I'm town, then I have kept a PR hidden until day3, and I've stopped possibly 3 of 4 kills. If you think that's a "horrible thing to do as town", then I can only repeat what I said in my last post. Ash said a similar thing, I gave him a similar response. I'm not being any more nice to you, and I don't know why you expected that.
There is nothing in my post indicating I "can't take it" (meaning your lying and anti-town play). I am only doing my best to express my opinion that you are scum and if you are town, you are not playing a pro-town game. Suggesting that I quite mafia for reasons that you have fabricated is uncalled for and illogical.
It is clear that you think you know better than everyone else and are going to play how you wish to. By all means, you are free to play however you want. You are not free to insult me in the manner that you have though--and then continue onwards as if your unwarranted statements were actually pertinent.
QuoteI find the tone of this post unnecessarily hostile.
Considering that you lied, it's pretty obvious that you don't understand how that is a horrible thing to do as town. It doesn't matter that you think it worked out for you. I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
I find the argument deserves a hostile response. you seem to be stuck in the mindset that a lie from town is anti town in all situations, and you stick to that despite the blatant facts.
if you think I'm scum, you can vote for me. but if I'm town, then I have kept a PR hidden until day3, and I've stopped possibly 3 of 4 kills. If you think that's a "horrible thing to do as town", then I can only repeat what I said in my last post. Ash said a similar thing, I gave him a similar response. I'm not being any more nice to you, and I don't know why you expected that.
So Silver, who did you jailkeep night 1?
QuoteThere is nothing in my post indicating I "can't take it" (meaning your lying and anti-town play). I am only doing my best to express my opinion that you are scum and if you are town, you are not playing a pro-town game. Suggesting that I quite mafia for reasons that you have fabricated is uncalled for and illogical.
It is clear that you think you know better than everyone else and are going to play how you wish to. By all means, you are free to play however you want. You are not free to insult me in the manner that you have though--and then continue onwards as if your unwarranted statements were actually pertinent.
I don't think anything I have said to you is an insult. The two worst things were "suck it up" and "if you can't handle that, stop playing mafia." I was conscious about being slightly offensive, and I also think you deserve this kind of response based on your posts. Your last post was basically saying "YOU LIED, HOW DARE YOU, I DON'T LIKE YOU" and then you voted for me. That's a policy vote. And the policy doesn't even make sense. If you want my opinion, I think that's plenty anti town.
Plus, this is a game, I'm trying to win this game, and being harsh to you is a part of that. Honestly, what did you expect? I think I expressed my feelings about the "you made a horrible decision everything you say now isn't worth anything" mentality plenty when ash brought it up. He could handle it. I don't see why you cant. People have said harsh things to me before, I'm really sensitive, and I didn't complain.
Really, you play mafia, and then you complain that people are lying to you.
I have made no personal attacks on you. The fact that you lied has no bearing on how I feel about you as an individual. It does have relevance to this game. The fact that you are aware of the closely out-of-line behavior that you are expressing to me and you deem it "necessary" for reasons which you fail to state is not a good sign.QuoteThere is nothing in my post indicating I "can't take it" (meaning your lying and anti-town play). I am only doing my best to express my opinion that you are scum and if you are town, you are not playing a pro-town game. Suggesting that I quite mafia for reasons that you have fabricated is uncalled for and illogical.
It is clear that you think you know better than everyone else and are going to play how you wish to. By all means, you are free to play however you want. You are not free to insult me in the manner that you have though--and then continue onwards as if your unwarranted statements were actually pertinent.
I don't think anything I have said to you is an insult. The two worst things were "suck it up" and "if you can't handle that, stop playing mafia." I was conscious about being slightly offensive, and I also think you deserve this kind of response based on your posts. Your last post was basically saying "YOU LIED, HOW DARE YOU, I DON'T LIKE YOU" and then you voted for me. That's a policy vote. And the policy doesn't even make sense. If you want my opinion, I think that's plenty anti town.
Plus, this is a game, I'm trying to win this game, and being harsh to you is a part of that. Honestly, what did you expect? I think I expressed my feelings about the "you made a horrible decision everything you say now isn't worth anything" mentality plenty when ash brought it up. He could handle it. I don't see why you cant. People have said harsh things to me before, I'm really sensitive, and I didn't complain.
Really, you play mafia, and then you complain that people are lying to you.
So, I'm town and I kept a PR hidden just as long without having to lie to town to do it. So did Jimmmmm. So I'm not sure that ends-justfiy-the-means argument holds water.
I'm sure you did, but there was a lot of info flying around then.well, I had a null read on ash day 1, and I thought he'd be a valuable town player, so he seemed like the ideal target. It's not unlikely that either scum or SK tried to get rid of him.
IF Silver is telling the truth, then we ought to have had two kills night one.
We didn't.
Silver jailkept ash night one.
BUT, ash is just as likely to have been the target as the killer.
QuoteSo, I'm town and I kept a PR hidden just as long without having to lie to town to do it. So did Jimmmmm. So I'm not sure that ends-justfiy-the-means argument holds water.
sure, I wasn't saying, "hey, I only survived because I did the genius claim". I was just listing facts. These facts are, I claimed VT day1, I stopped possibly 3 kills, I'm still alive day 3. Maybe I could have done the same without the claim. That's possible. Fact is, I accomplished far more than he did with his role. Given that the claim didn't cause any disadvantage, it's just not reasonable to say that it was poor play. There is no basis.
You could of course still argue that the claim was a mistake, and I'd be open to discuss that, but that's not what Ichi did. He really doesn't seem interested in the claim's consequences at all, as far as I can tell, he is just blindly hating on it.
But Ichi's distrust of you, and mine, and Witherweaver's IS a consequence of the play. That's the number one reason you don't lie as town. Because later on you need your teammates to trust you. We don't. And what you don't seem to acknowledge, is that that could cost us the game if you ARE town and we mislynch you. And you know what? That won't be our fault. It will be yours.
Now what's done is done, and we have a lot of information to make an educated decision, so we don't HAVE to trust you, so in this case it seems to work out ok. But that's the risk you took when you lied as town (IF you lied as town) and that's what people are mad about.
You two should keep in mind, while you're squabbling, that one of the two of you is very likely scum, which means the argument is almost certainly unwinnable. So just let it go.
But Ichi's distrust of you, and mine, and Witherweaver's IS a consequence of the play. That's the number one reason you don't lie as town. Because later on you need your teammates to trust you. We don't. And what you don't seem to acknowledge, is that that could cost us the game if you ARE town and we mislynch you. And you know what? That won't be our fault. It will be yours.My argument is not about silver's claim or him lying. It is related solely to his hostility and choice to interpret and make personal attacks.
Now what's done is done, and we have a lot of information to make an educated decision, so we don't HAVE to trust you, so in this case it seems to work out ok. But that's the risk you took when you lied as town (IF you lied as town) and that's what people are mad about.
You two should keep in mind, while you're squabbling, that one of the two of you is very likely scum, which means the argument is almost certainly unwinnable. So just let it go.
You two should keep in mind, while you're squabbling, that one of the two of you is very likely scum, which means the argument is almost certainly unwinnable. So just let it go.This!
It's poor (town) play because if you didn't act so questionable early on, we might not be questioning your claim so much now and might more easily be able to identify the liar (not you in this hypothetical).
It's poor (town) play because if you didn't act so questionable early on, we might not be questioning your claim so much now and might more easily be able to identify the liar (not you in this hypothetical).
well that is the obvious argument. And based on how everyone reacts, you seem to be right. I didn't expect this kind of response at all though. If I was in this game, someone else had claimed VT day 1, and then he came out and said that he really had a PR in day 3, do you think my reaction would be "you lied, now I don't believe you anymore?"
No. I'd think it's good play, I'd remember it, and if he ever does it again in another game, I'd be super suspicious. The "you lied, I don't believe you" mentality just seems immature to me, and completely unreasonable given that we are playing a game that's all about lying.
So, it's very obvious that I completely misjudged how other people would react. Well, I'm generally different from a lot of people, it's not uncommon that a lot of people consider something to be a certain way, and I just think that's very stupid. I could give you countless RL examples for that.
And really, if you could also argue that if you're not trusting me because I lied day 1 and that causes us to lose the game, that's really your fault, not mine.
PPE 5
It would be both your and joth's fault. You are always responsible of getting yourself lynched as town, just as you are responsible for voting for town as town. Not that placing blame particularly matters, the whole argument is unbelievably petty and stupid.
And generally mafia is about figuring out who are lying and lynching them. Counting all the blitz games and RMM's, I must be at something like 80 games played here. I remember town lying in four of them. Once it didn't matter (Galzria tried claiming 1-shot cop as a normal cop to avoid getting killed, scum killed him anyways), the three other times it failed horribly, causing that player to be the very next lynch once their lie was exposed. I'm not saying there aren't circumstances where town should lie (Galzria's lie was a good example), but there is a pretty strong precedent of new, smart people coming in, thinking they have it figured out better than the veterans and choosing to lie as town. It didn't work out for pingpongsam, it didn't work out for faust, we don't know yet if it ends up working for you (or if you even are town), but it would be a first. There is even a wiki article on this, http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars), you aren't the first to come up with the genious idea of lying as town. You know, just something to think about.
What was the point of claiming VT at all?
I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
the downside is not objective. why would you even say that.QuoteWhat was the point of claiming VT at all?
Did you ask that? If you did, I didn't see it. Noone has asked me that since right in day1.
There is an answer for that, but it's very complicated, and very long. It's not even about this game, for the most part. And it also touches on a lot of more or less irrational feelings that I have about mafia. I'm not sure posting it is really a good idea. I was planing to do it after the game, if someone asked.
Does this mean Ichi's not scum?
Unless he is scum with ash and ash performed the kill. Yea yea I know,I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
I believe this part of it.
And yet, Ichi DIDN'T kill silver night 1.
Does this mean Ichi's not scum?
Would you have made it as scum as well?no, as scum I have mates, and I'd have to ask them before I do it (otherwise it'd really feel wrong) and then they'd ask me why I want to do it and then we have the same problem again.
Vote Count 1.FINAL
Ichimaru (1): Jimmmmm,
Witherweaver (1): faust,
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADK
Final Vote Count
Jimmmmm (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn, ashersky, Jimmmmm
Hydrad has been lynched! He was Bernard, a Mafia Goon
Would you have made it as scum as well?no, as scum I have mates, and I'd have to ask them before I do it (otherwise it'd really feel wrong) and then they'd ask me why I want to do it and then we have the same problem again.
I might have done it as a SK, but I probably would've been too scared to really do it.
Also:I was on IG for the longest time both day 1 and 2 though.QuoteVote Count 1.FINAL
Ichimaru (1): Jimmmmm,
Witherweaver (1): faust,
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADKQuoteFinal Vote Count
Jimmmmm (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn, ashersky, Jimmmmm
Hydrad has been lynched! He was Bernard, a Mafia Goon
Voting Xerxes: Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADK
Not Voting Hydrad: Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Eevee and Ichi are common.
It may be worth analyzing these votes in each case (Ichi, Silver, Jimmm scum) to look at plausibility.
Would you have made it as scum as well?no, as scum I have mates, and I'd have to ask them before I do it (otherwise it'd really feel wrong) and then they'd ask me why I want to do it and then we have the same problem again.
I might have done it as a SK, but I probably would've been too scared to really do it.
You wouldn't if you were Traitor
right. so I think I was asking "do you think Jimmm could pull this off as scum" at some point and noone answered that.
do you think he could pull it off? it's kind of impressive. and I can't read him because I only know his lurking self.
That's some very insightful analysis. I appreciate that you're getting more involved, Jimmmmm.
Thanks. :)
When we only had 3 PR claims and it didn't look like we were going to have another one, I could be certain (based on jo and Ichi being ICs and Ichi claiming Psychologist) that jo was the Detective. He couldn't know for sure I was the Commuter unless he assumed no SK. I was debating the merits of claiming Detective and faking some results (dangerous I know but worst case my flip would clear it up). The point being that jo would, knowing that I'm Town and lying about my role, see what I was doing and figure that I knew he was the Detective and I was therefore the Commuter, and then he would claim Commuter so that our claims didn't contradict scum's add-on. The point of all of this being that I would then hopefully draw the NK, giving jo an extra Night to get results.
Of course, jo may not have received the message I would have been trying to send. It felt a bit like Hanabi.
Wow... I think a post like that would be really, really hard to fake as scum. I'm will assume you're town for now. Also, nice thinking. That would have been awesome had it worked out.
How does this help me know your alignment?QuoteDoes this mean Ichi's not scum?
No. I don't believe this part for one second. For your information Ichi, I would have made the exact same post if I had been a VT. I decided to do it as town before I got my pm.
How does this help me know your alignment?QuoteDoes this mean Ichi's not scum?
No. I don't believe this part for one second. For your information Ichi, I would have made the exact same post if I had been a VT. I decided to do it as town before I got my pm.
You say you decided to claim VT before you even started this game for some mysterious reason. Again, how does this information help?
What I have to go off of is setup analysis and your posts. From what I have played with you so far, it seems perfectly plausible that you would lie as town for whatever reason--but I'm sure you anticipated that people would think that. So it leaves me with a big fat WIFOM. Your arguments as to the effectiveness or pro-townness of your lying seem sincere, I just don't buy them. Look at the situation we are in now. If you had not fakeclaimed VT, I am sure that people would trust your claim much more. So really all that the fakeclaim did is discredit you. And ironically, you want to pin the "blame" on other people for not thinking that your wondrous lie was the towniest thing ever that will singlehandedly win us the game. As has already been pointed out scum lies, not town.
This does not mean that there is never a situation that lying as town might be beneficial. I've entertained the idea myself in recent games. However, your fakeclaim here is clearly not one of those exceptions to the rule--no matter how much you say it is. So, "suck it up" and just admit you made a mistake. It would certainly improve my read on you. I think scum has to defend their choice violently here just like you have once they realize they've screwed up.
no matter how much you say it is. So, "suck it up" and just admit you made a mistake.
Quoteno matter how much you say it is. So, "suck it up" and just admit you made a mistake.
I never said it was not a mistake. I said that you are making terrible arguments for why it is a mistake, and none of them apply. An argument can still be bad, even if the thing it's arguing for is correct. If I say Scout is a weak card because it puts the cards back instead of discarding them, that's a horrible argument, despite the fact that scout is in fact a weak card.
that said, I don't think it was a mistake. I heavily implied that the claim wasn't really about this particular game, so you obviously can't judge whether or not it was successful. Not every action I take is just about improving my chances in the particular game it is in. I consider other things, e.g. future games. The easiest to explain motivation of my claim was that I wanted to become less predictable. You may recall that Voltaire basically caught me in GoT mafia after one day, even though I really tried hard to play exactly like I had done previously.
I agree with joth that we shouldn't be lynching out of claimed PR's today. I am not a particularly adept person with analyzing setups, so I am unsure exactly how much of Ash's analysis is true given that some people disagree with it. However, if it really is Me orSilver than my choice as to who is scum is clear. It's possible that other people are lying and/or silver lied about his role a second time (though of course very unlikely).How does this help me know your alignment?QuoteDoes this mean Ichi's not scum?
No. I don't believe this part for one second. For your information Ichi, I would have made the exact same post if I had been a VT. I decided to do it as town before I got my pm.
You say you decided to claim VT before you even started this game for some mysterious reason. Again, how does this information help?
What I have to go off of is setup analysis and your posts. From what I have played with you so far, it seems perfectly plausible that you would lie as town for whatever reason--but I'm sure you anticipated that people would think that. So it leaves me with a big fat WIFOM. Your arguments as to the effectiveness or pro-townness of your lying seem sincere, I just don't buy them. Look at the situation we are in now. If you had not fakeclaimed VT, I am sure that people would trust your claim much more. So really all that the fakeclaim did is discredit you. And ironically, you want to pin the "blame" on other people for not thinking that your wondrous lie was the towniest thing ever that will singlehandedly win us the game. As has already been pointed out scum lies, not town.
This does not mean that there is never a situation that lying as town might be beneficial. I've entertained the idea myself in recent games. However, your fakeclaim here is clearly not one of those exceptions to the rule--no matter how much you say it is. So, "suck it up" and just admit you made a mistake. It would certainly improve my read on you. I think scum has to defend their choice violently here just like you have once they realize they've screwed up.
... if your read "improves" on Silver... where does that leave you?
I agree with joth that we shouldn't be lynching out of claimed PR's today. I am not a particularly adept person with analyzing setups, so I am unsure exactly how much of Ash's analysis is true given that some people disagree with it. However, if it really is Me orSilver than my choice as to who is scum is clear. It's possible that other people are lying and/or silver lied about his role a second time (though of course very unlikely).
PPE: 2
I said I'm not the strongest with setups. However, going back and looking at the analysis the Ash and others have given, it looks very much like Me or Silver. I was confused about this though, given that some people want to lynch neither of us today--which doesn't make much sense if one of us is 100% lying scum. So that made me wonder if that's actually the way it was.I agree with joth that we shouldn't be lynching out of claimed PR's today. I am not a particularly adept person with analyzing setups, so I am unsure exactly how much of Ash's analysis is true given that some people disagree with it. However, if it really is Me orSilver than my choice as to who is scum is clear. It's possible that other people are lying and/or silver lied about his role a second time (though of course very unlikely).
PPE: 2
If? Lay out for me your thought process here.
I never said this, but now I'm going to go ahead and say it. Pointless post count +1.my post was basically about how the two bold parts don't necessarily contradict, and you say it's pointless based on the fact that it includes both bold parts. well done.
QuoteI never said this, but now I'm going to go ahead and say it. Pointless post count +1.my post was basically about how the two bold parts don't necessarily contradict, and you say it's pointless based on the fact that it includes both bold parts. well done.
I mean, i was purposefully having the two paragraphs begin like that to illustrate my point further. whether or not I think it was a mistake is completely independent of how I judge arguments that say "it was a mistake cause XX". If people understood this concept, the world be a much better place. This is like the least pointless post I've made this entire game. Why did you have to pick this one to make that kind of remark? Plus, if you hadn't done it, the discussion would be over now. But the fact that you did forces me to respond.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Psychologist.
Have a look at the possible setups and tell me how many include 3 of these and what the odd one out is.
I prefer to lynch Ichi first (before the scum in the VT pool) because I believe he is the Traitor, and therefore the Roleblocker. If we lynch the Goon first, we still have a Roleblocker who can just block Silver (and I guess accidentally block the SK, which is another way to account for missing kills btw).
I prefer to lynch Ichi first (before the scum in the VT pool) because I believe he is the Traitor, and therefore the Roleblocker. If we lynch the Goon first, we still have a Roleblocker who can just block Silver (and I guess accidentally block the SK, which is another way to account for missing kills btw).
Actually, when Traitor is lynched, a Goon inherits the Roleblocking role.
So let's pretend "1-shot BP Commuter" is a typo, since it is, and it really says "1-shot Commuter".Wait. . .
Want to reanalyze?
On the earlier question of simultaneous roleblock/jk -- I assume they just cancel each other out and neither gets to do anything? That's the best I can come up with using yumalogic.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Psychologist.
Have a look at the possible setups and tell me how many include 3 of these and what the odd one out is.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Goon Cop.
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Watcher.
Your argument is correct that his fakeclaim was not fully safe. Your argument is incorrect that he had a "better" option. The three roles not in the setups all result in the same problem.
Goon Cop + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Watcher + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Do not exist. Just like Psychologist + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard does not exist.
ALL THREE POSSIBILITIES ARE THE SAME. If he's fakeclaiming, any of the three could fail, but Psychologist is the one with the easiest to fake results.
So let's pretend "1-shot BP Commuter" is a typo, since it is, and it really says "1-shot Commuter".Wait. . .
Want to reanalyze?
After checking the thread I see the 1-shot BP Commuter was a mod typo so setup #4 is entirely possible--and that's why it's me vs. silverspawn.
That explains why people came to that conclusion.
And, setup #4 actually makes the most sense given the incredible lack of kills if we actually had a SK.
Back to vote: Silverspawn
PPE: a bunch
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Psychologist.
Have a look at the possible setups and tell me how many include 3 of these and what the odd one out is.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Goon Cop.
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Watcher.
Your argument is correct that his fakeclaim was not fully safe. Your argument is incorrect that he had a "better" option. The three roles not in the setups all result in the same problem.
Goon Cop + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Watcher + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Do not exist. Just like Psychologist + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard does not exist.
ALL THREE POSSIBILITIES ARE THE SAME. If he's fakeclaiming, any of the three could fail, but Psychologist is the one with the easiest to fake results.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Psychologist.
Have a look at the possible setups and tell me how many include 3 of these and what the odd one out is.
Dude. Four people claim. They claim:
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Goon Cop.
Bulletproof.
Jailkeeper.
Bodyguard.
Watcher.
Your argument is correct that his fakeclaim was not fully safe. Your argument is incorrect that he had a "better" option. The three roles not in the setups all result in the same problem.
Goon Cop + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Watcher + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard
Do not exist. Just like Psychologist + 2 of BP/JK/Bodyguard does not exist.
ALL THREE POSSIBILITIES ARE THE SAME. If he's fakeclaiming, any of the three could fail, but Psychologist is the one with the easiest to fake results.
But if he's a Traitor in TKM there were exactly two possible setups - the one we have if he lying, or the one above. No way he comes out with a first claim which gives him a 50% chance of being auto-lynched.
Please lynch Jimmmmm after my flip though, because it will be obvious he is scum by then.
There is still the outside chance that Jimmmmm is lying, but I was only voting him due to my erroneous setup interpretation. That would also mean that both D2 wagons were on scum, which strikes me as pretty unlikely.So let's pretend "1-shot BP Commuter" is a typo, since it is, and it really says "1-shot Commuter".Wait. . .
Want to reanalyze?
After checking the thread I see the 1-shot BP Commuter was a mod typo so setup #4 is entirely possible--and that's why it's me vs. silverspawn.
That explains why people came to that conclusion.
And, setup #4 actually makes the most sense given the incredible lack of kills if we actually had a SK.
Back to vote: Silverspawn
PPE: a bunch
Wouldn't the correct conclusion be that it's you vs. Silverspawn vs. Jimmmmm?
To Jimmmmm:
Ichi claimed at L-1 (right?) on Day 2. He could likely have been the lynch. NowQuoteBut in the case of Row 3, [...] The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
This is true, but it requires some thinking about the setup. Is it possible he just looked at all the PR's that weren't on Row 3 U Column 3, that is, {Watcher, Goon Cop, Psychologist}, and picked one? Out of these three, psychologist has the advantage that he doesn't really need to "clear" people; it's not as accountable. He gets "can't kill" and the turn up Mafia or SK, well, maybe they had already killed.
I think your argument requires optimal play. Honestly, if I was coming up with a fake claim, there's a good chance I might not choose carefully enough.
From you it's certainly Silver vs. Ichi. Your argument implies Ichi couldn't have claimed what he did as scum, so it has to be Silver. Is there another reason you think it's Silver (besides the opportunistic fear of having 3 IC's)?
For the rest of us, we have no reason to believe Jimmmm is confirmed, right?
If it isn't clear, I'm operating under the assumption that all town PR's have claimed, so there aren't two liars in the set of four claimers.
Unless the Traitor was recruited - whether or not it was discussed between two people is a fairly minor point.
Unless the Traitor was recruited - whether or not it was discussed between two people is a fairly minor point.
Only on Night 1; if Traitor was recruited last night they wouldn't be able to talk about it.
My thought was that two people were more likely to realize a problem with claims than one person. So non discussion makes the error more likely.
I prefer to lynch Ichi first (before the scum in the VT pool) because I believe he is the Traitor, and therefore the Roleblocker. If we lynch the Goon first, we still have a Roleblocker who can just block Silver (and I guess accidentally block the SK, which is another way to account for missing kills btw).
Actually, when Traitor is lynched, a Goon inherits the Roleblocking role.
Why?because an argument for Ichi was that if we kill the traitor, we kill the roleblocker
Why?because an argument for Ichi was that if we kill the traitor, we kill the roleblocker
Why?because an argument for Ichi was that if we kill the traitor, we kill the roleblocker
Sure, if you're not you. Did you forget about the youness of you?
Hence, you forgot that you were you.
So Psychologist was a 1/5 chance of failing immediately. The other two available fake claims were a 2/5 chance of failing immediately. Ergo, if a Traitor in TKM is going to fakeclaim a PR, it has to be Psychologist. (Good to know if this setup is run again, btw)
What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
I am arguing that, AT THE TIME OF HIS CLAIM, he made the safest claim he could if he is a Traitor in TKM.
I am arguing that, AT THE TIME OF HIS CLAIM, he made the safest claim he could if he is a Traitor in TKM.
Wrong. The safest claim would be VT. Another safer option would be withhold claiming entirely, especially since (if I remember the timing rightly) I had already proposed a massclaim and probably seemed fairly likely to claim willingly.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
I am arguing that, AT THE TIME OF HIS CLAIM, he made the safest claim he could if he is a Traitor in TKM.
Wrong. The safest claim would be VT. Another safer option would be withhold claiming entirely, especially since (if I remember the timing rightly) I had already proposed a massclaim and probably seemed fairly likely to claim willingly.
Okay, I should have written out "safest PR fake claim he could make" instead of just claim. But now you are just making arguments to try to belittle me, and I don't appreciate it. You knew exactly what I mean when I wrote it in the context of my entire post. But you pulled out a single line and make a statement such as yours to try and make me look stupid and idiotic. Thanks.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
Wrong. In the even of a massclaim Today, which had already been proposed, he had a 1 in 2 chance of being automatically lynched Today, and a 1 in 2 chance of being part of a 1 scum in 3. That's a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the Day. Scum don't willingly give themselves a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
Wrong. In the even of a massclaim Today, which had already been proposed, he had a 1 in 2 chance of being automatically lynched Today, and a 1 in 2 chance of being part of a 1 scum in 3. That's a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the Day. Scum don't willingly give themselves a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.
And yet you continue. This is why yuma quit.
Please don't pull this again. You can't expect me to stop arguing my point just because you say you've had your feelings hurt.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
Wrong. In the even of a massclaim Today, which had already been proposed, he had a 1 in 2 chance of being automatically lynched Today, and a 1 in 2 chance of being part of a 1 scum in 3. That's a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the Day. Scum don't willingly give themselves a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.
All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
So "Ichi's a Psychologist and we know x from our own roles and what we know means the setup is #y, so it's best to claim z (1-shot commuter, or Jailkeeper).
Please stop bussing me Ash.All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
So "Ichi's a Psychologist and we know x from our own roles and what we know means the setup is #y, so it's best to claim z (1-shot commuter, or Jailkeeper).
That is of course true if you are town. But you aren't.
Please stop bussing me Ash.All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
So "Ichi's a Psychologist and we know x from our own roles and what we know means the setup is #y, so it's best to claim z (1-shot commuter, or Jailkeeper).
That is of course true if you are town. But you aren't.
All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
So "Ichi's a Psychologist and we know x from our own roles and what we know means the setup is #y, so it's best to claim z (1-shot commuter, or Jailkeeper).
All I'm saying is that scum would then know my role and use to build their own fakeclaims.What you said is true in terms of the circumstances surrounding my claim. However, the fact that I was the first PR to claim also gave scum additional information to formulate their own fakeclaims based off of mine. Depending what scum knew from their own roles or knowing their partners or not + my claim, it would allow them to narrow the setup down substantially--thus giving them the ability to craft much more believable fakeclaims.
Which scum? Who did this? How did they use the information in this situation?
So "Ichi's a Psychologist and we know x from our own roles and what we know means the setup is #y, so it's best to claim z (1-shot commuter, or Jailkeeper).
Yeah, but that's kind of just quoting a general principle. I'm saying, tell me a story. Who used this information and what fake claim did they make, and why did they make it?
Never!Yeah. It probably is the best call in this situation. I don't think anyone suspects you, so we probably have a good chance of winning.
Please don't pull this again. You can't expect me to stop arguing my point just because you say you've had your feelings hurt.
How about because you are being unfair? Don't pull single lines out of context to disprove or to make me look stupid.
Your criticisms of other players should not rise to the level of personal attacks. At the same time, you should assume other players' criticisms of you are not intended as personal attacks.
Now who's taking things personally, appealing to emotion?
Pot, meet kettle.
Now who's taking things personally, appealing to emotion?
Pot, meet kettle.
I think I'm done engaging with you for the moment.
Secondly, I'm allowed to take you out of context if I want. If I'm scum or I think you're scum and either way I want to turn other people's opinions against you, there is nothing in the rules saying I can't manipulate your words to sound however I want them to sound.
Not when you pledged to do otherwise.
Am I the goon who knowingly destroyed my partner hydrad? You know I never bus, ever. Am I the unluckiest traitor alive? Did I bus the goon I knew was my partner?
Am I the goon who knowingly destroyed my partner hydrad? You know I never bus, ever. Am I the unluckiest traitor alive? Did I bus the goon I knew was my partner?
One question though: Do you deliberately leave out an option here?
silver-ash-witherweaver/faust-Eevee-Ichi
silver-ash-witherweaver/faust-Eevee-Ichi
silver-ash-witherweaver/faust-Eevee-Ichi
this is ridiculous and it makes me want to lynch you over Ichi again.
to clarify, me first is fine. ash second is not. eevee second last is insane. Ichi last too.
well right now there are a number of arguments for both jimmmm and Ichi, from my perspective
pro Jimmm:
-> he's probably better at scum than Ichi, and I don't like how he's suddenly not even in the lynch pool. it makes me scared. I don't know how common it is that he's so active, but I feel like people just don't want to lynch him based on that
-> him trying to defend ichi so much is just plain weird. I used to give him town cred for that, but by now, it almost seems like he isn't concerned about his lynch anyway, and just wants to kill me instead of Ichi. Why? even if we assume that Ichi has thought so far that his argument makes sense, his claim is still just as good as mine.
-> I don't like the way he plays at all. I'd feel much more comfortable if he's not around anymore. I also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy
-> He seems very set on lynching me, if he is kept alive, that could mean trouble.
pro Ichi:
-> ash's analysis
-> his day1
-> self-preservation
Objectively, I should stay on Ichi, and I think that's what I'll do. but I feel really bad about it.
what is his motivation as town to push my lynch like this? why would he misread me so much, when I'm apparently not hard to read? I've never been mislynched, and in my only scum game that's over, I've been figured out pretty quickly. Am I supposed to just buy that?
-> I don't like the way he plays at all. I'd feel much more comfortable if he's not around anymore.
I also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy
-> I don't like the way he plays at all. I'd feel much more comfortable if he's not around anymore.
What do you mean by that?QuoteI also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy
What do you mean by that?? How have I been personal with ash? Does anyone else think that ash is right and I've personally attacked him?
Objectively, I should stay on Ichi, and I think that's what I'll do. but I feel really bad about it.Could you elaborate on the bolded part?
Is this Ash softclaiming SK?Am I the goon who knowingly destroyed my partner hydrad? You know I never bus, ever. Am I the unluckiest traitor alive? Did I bus the goon I knew was my partner?
One question though: Do you deliberately leave out an option here?
Yep.
oh and, if Ichi flips scum, I am an IC, right? that'd be nice.
Could you elaborate on the bolded part?it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.
QuoteI also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy
What do you mean by that?? How have I been personal with ash? Does anyone else think that ash is right and I've personally attacked him?
Thank you.
QuoteCould you elaborate on the bolded part?it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.
Is this Ash softclaiming SK?Am I the goon who knowingly destroyed my partner hydrad? You know I never bus, ever. Am I the unluckiest traitor alive? Did I bus the goon I knew was my partner?
One question though: Do you deliberately leave out an option here?
Yep.
it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.
QuoteI also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy
What do you mean by that?? How have I been personal with ash? Does anyone else think that ash is right and I've personally attacked him?
I think questions like this are trying to split the town into ash vs. jimmmmm in a personal way. You are taking the accusation that you were personal with me personally and asking for others in the game to take your side.
You aren't making cases, you are just talking about me, the player. That's by definition personal, not "in-game."
it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.
If anyone thinks I'm the SK, it at the very least should cement in your mind that Ichi is the fake claimer.
He said I had no power to kill on N1, after all.
If the context is returned to the quote, you will see that I'm pointing out the lack of a case by jimmmmm for me to be scum.
it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.
If anyone thinks I'm the SK, it at the very least should cement in your mind that Ichi is the fake claimer.
He said I had no power to kill on N1, after all.
Ooooh, I forgot about that.
Could have killed Night 1 and your kill was blocked? Resolution would be:
Blocking
Killing
Investigation
Now SK!You submits an order to kill someone, and that kill gets blocked. (Did SK Jailkeep you Night 1?) Would Psychologist turn up "Unable to Kill" since you have already submitted a kill, even though it's not successful? My guess is probably not from Psychologist wording. Ichi?
But be aware that I will not be deterred in playing the game or saying what I have to say by accusations of personal attacks or threats to leave the community.
Okay.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
Okay.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly. The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.
He hopes the bus will help him. Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.
(On a side note, the fact that, to me, jimmmmm is absolutely town is what makes his posts so hurtful to me. If he was mafia/SK, his argument that twisting my words to make me scummy would make sense. I just don't see why town does it.)
Quote from: Jimmmmm link=topic=11779.msg431544#msg431544But be aware that I will not be deterred in playing the game or saying what I have to say by accusations of personal attacks or threats to leave the community.
Threat received.
(And nowhere have I called for you to quit. If you think I did, I apologize, but that's a misunderstanding on your part.)
Okay.It's nothing about Ichi. I don't think I fit very well for a partner for Ichi, I've been voting for him almost all the game. It's my unfortunate misread of hydrad that means I fit well for his partner.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
QuoteCould you elaborate on the bolded part?it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.
What have I done that you dislike?
I don't like you.
Okay.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly. The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.
He hopes the bus will help him. Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.
Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing. (I think.) Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.
Okay.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly. The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.
He hopes the bus will help him. Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.
Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing. (I think.) Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.
But does Mafia Goon!Eevee know that Ichi is lying?
I meant being on the mislynch, not the voting Ichi part.
QuoteCould you elaborate on the bolded part?it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.
What have I done that you dislike?
a lot. man, it starts with the fact that you're painting yourself as the innocent one, which, in my opinion, is just absurd after your discussion with ash. but it really wouldn't be a good idea if i list every reason now. I don't like you. it's best to leave it at that. I'm trying not to let that influence my vote.
I have said nothing hurtful, and if you are hurt then you need to approach this game with a thicker skin.
I have said nothing hurtful, and if you are hurt then you need to approach this game with a thicker skin.
The first part of this quote is untrue.
I believe that you probably didn't say anything with the intention of being hurtful. That doesn't mean the words you chose weren't hurtful anyway.
If a person is joyriding in their car and accidentally kills your dog, even if they didn't mean to, they still killed your dog, and are culpable for it. Their intentions didn't matter, the consequences of their actions still belong to them.
The second part of your quote is probably true. Maybe I need a thicker skin. Or maybe outside IRL influences/issues affect how fake/in-game issues affect me. Or maybe I'm just fried from having played so many games. I don't really have an answer to this.
It doesn't change how I feel, or what/who made me feel it.
I have said nothing hurtful, and if you are hurt then you need to approach this game with a thicker skin.
The first part of this quote is untrue.
I believe that you probably didn't say anything with the intention of being hurtful. That doesn't mean the words you chose weren't hurtful anyway.
If a person is joyriding in their car and accidentally kills your dog, even if they didn't mean to, they still killed your dog, and are culpable for it. Their intentions didn't matter, the consequences of their actions still belong to them.
The second part of your quote is probably true. Maybe I need a thicker skin. Or maybe outside IRL influences/issues affect how fake/in-game issues affect me. Or maybe I'm just fried from having played so many games. I don't really have an answer to this.
It doesn't change how I feel, or what/who made me feel it.
If a person is joyriding in their car and accidentally kills your dog, even if they didn't mean to, they still killed your dog, and are culpable for it. Their intentions didn't matter, the consequences of their actions still belong to them.
Okay.
Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi? What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?
D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly. The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.
He hopes the bus will help him. Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.
Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing. (I think.) Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.
But does Mafia Goon!Eevee know that Ichi is lying?
I meant being on the mislynch, not the voting Ichi part.
Yes, because Mafia Goon!Eevee knows he got no add-on. He therefore knows that the setup is Traitor Knows Mafia. He therefore knows that ..
well I have to go back and double check. Maybe he doesn't know until the first PR claim (Silver in this case, I think).
Actually, even now in this scenario, scum!Eevee can't be sure Ichi isn't SK instead of Traitor, and the Traitor just claimed VT.
So, he doesn't have to be bussing.
Way to point out that possibility, Eevee :P
Anyway, Jimmm, I missed this if you answered it before: is there anything other than the knowledge-at-time-of-claiming argument that makes you think it's Silver over Ichi?
Also, for the record, the dog was in the fenced yard, playing fetch with his ten-year old owner, when the joyrider jumped the curb, destroyed the fence, and splattered the dog, spraying blood everywhere. Then he just drove away.
He may not have intended to do it, but it's definitely his fault.
Actually, even now in this scenario, scum!Eevee can't be sure Ichi isn't SK instead of Traitor, and the Traitor just claimed VT.
So, he doesn't have to be bussing.
Way to point out that possibility, Eevee :P
So the conclusion is that Eevee voting for Ichi isn't worth town points, right?
Ok, I'm pretty well convinced Ichi is the lynch today. Is he at L-1?
Also, for the record, the dog was in the fenced yard, playing fetch with his ten-year old owner, when the joyrider jumped the curb, destroyed the fence, and splattered the dog, spraying blood everywhere. Then he just drove away.
He may not have intended to do it, but it's definitely his fault.
Um.
No.
Okay, musing:
If Jimmm is town, it's Silver or Ichi. Not considering SK kills for the moment, Mafia would need two mislynches to win. If I'm lying!Silver or Ichi, I'm pretty much 100% sure that I'm the default lynch for tomorrow if the other guy gets mislynched today. So, what do I do? Well, it's better to get that VT mislynch through today, then argue for the other guy for the win tomorrow. Or, I need to get some suspicion on Jimmmm so that he's a viable lynch tomorrow.
So, who out of Ichi/Silver has been pushing (maybe subtly) for either a VT lynch today or casting suspicion on Jimmmm?
Also, for the record, the dog was in the fenced yard, playing fetch with his ten-year old owner, when the joyrider jumped the curb, destroyed the fence, and splattered the dog, spraying blood everywhere. Then he just drove away.
He may not have intended to do it, but it's definitely his fault.
Um.
No.
If you think the driver's is not at fault in this scenario, you should be a defense lawyer making late night television ads.
Also, for the record, the dog was in the fenced yard, playing fetch with his ten-year old owner, when the joyrider jumped the curb, destroyed the fence, and splattered the dog, spraying blood everywhere. Then he just drove away.
He may not have intended to do it, but it's definitely his fault.
Um.
No.
If you think the driver's is not at fault in this scenario, you should be a defense lawyer making late night television ads.
Clearly my objection is not based on who would be at fault in that scenario, but the use of that scenario.
Also, for the record, the dog was in the fenced yard, playing fetch with his ten-year old owner, when the joyrider jumped the curb, destroyed the fence, and splattered the dog, spraying blood everywhere. Then he just drove away.
He may not have intended to do it, but it's definitely his fault.
Um.
No.
If you think the driver's is not at fault in this scenario, you should be a defense lawyer making late night television ads.
Clearly my objection is not based on who would be at fault in that scenario, but the use of that scenario.
I was just expanding in response to WW's "acheivement" joke. I wasn't being serious.
Okay, musing:
If Jimmm is town, it's Silver or Ichi. Not considering SK kills for the moment, Mafia would need two mislynches to win. If I'm lying!Silver or Ichi, I'm pretty much 100% sure that I'm the default lynch for tomorrow if the other guy gets mislynched today. So, what do I do? Well, it's better to get that VT mislynch through today, then argue for the other guy for the win tomorrow. Or, I need to get some suspicion on Jimmmm so that he's a viable lynch tomorrow.
So, who out of Ichi/Silver has been pushing (maybe subtly) for either a VT lynch today or casting suspicion on Jimmmm?
Jimmmmm is town unless there's a real Commuter in hiding. So, if we think Mafia is pushing a VT lynch today, Mafia is...faust? Was he pushing the VT idea?
Silver has overtly cast suspicion on Jimmmmm, but is voting for Silver. Ichi is just voting for Silver.
Joth publically thought through the option of a VT lynch (bigger chance of hitting scum since the SK is in that pool), but has decided on Ichi.
I'm not sure this is a point we can delve into to find scum.
You know what, it's so, so unfair to say that you don't like how I play and you don't like me, but you won't tell me why. I'm guilty for what? Quoting ash without keeping the whole quote in? Not being okay with him accusing me of personally attacking him?
Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
ash, that's a big wall of posts for a very wrong conclusion.Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
False.
If Ichi was a Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup, he knew that the Town PRs are either Commuter, JK and Detective (Column 3) or BP, JK and Bodyguard (Row 3). In the case of Column 3, which we now know is the real one if Ichi is lying, then he's fine, Psychologist is a safe claim.
But in the case of Row 3, Psychologist would be an absolutely disastrous claim. The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
So a Traitor in TKM would absolutely not claim Psychologist without more information about what other roles are present.
ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
Wrong. In the even of a massclaim Today, which had already been proposed, he had a 1 in 2 chance of being automatically lynched Today, and a 1 in 2 chance of being part of a 1 scum in 3. That's a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the Day. Scum don't willingly give themselves a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.
I am arguing that, AT THE TIME OF HIS CLAIM, he made the safest claim he could if he is a Traitor in TKM.
Wrong. The safest claim would be VT. Another safer option would be withhold claiming entirely, especially since (if I remember the timing rightly) I had already proposed a massclaim and probably seemed fairly likely to claim willingly.
Okay, I should have written out "safest PR fake claim he could make" instead of just claim. But now you are just making arguments to try to belittle me, and I don't appreciate it. You knew exactly what I mean when I wrote it in the context of my entire post. But you pulled out a single line and make a statement such as yours to try and make me look stupid and idiotic. Thanks.
Civility remember. Don't try to make things personal when they're not.
My point is valid - if scum he didn't have to claim a PR, and he certainly didn't have to claim when he did.
phone posting. no one hammer right away please. I'll be home and at my computer within the hour.
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
Well everyone acts like it's inevitable--and I've fought my mislynch hard this entire game. So what else is there for me to do? People have the facts, they just need to make the right choice.phone posting. no one hammer right away please. I'll be home and at my computer within the hour.
So you're good with a hammer as long as it isn't right away?
comes off as really arrogantOh the irony!
Well everyone acts like it's inevitable--and I've fought my mislynch hard this entire game. So what else is there for me to do? People have the facts, they just need to make the right choice.phone posting. no one hammer right away please. I'll be home and at my computer within the hour.
So you're good with a hammer as long as it isn't right away?
I feel that silver is not only scum, but also breaching civility (an issue unrelated to alignment). So that's where my vote is.
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
plus, if ichi flips town, I know 100% that Jimmmm is scum, because I know 100% that one of them is scum now. lining up a mislynch doesn't make any sense.
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
plus, if ichi flips town, I know 100% that Jimmmm is scum, because I know 100% that one of them is scum now. lining up a mislynch doesn't make any sense.
I just explained that this is what you'd have to do, and that you'd fail.
If Ichi flipped town, and you argued that Jimmmmm is lying and scum tomorrow, where's the third PR?
I just explained that this is what you'd have to do, and that you'd fail.
If Ichi flipped town, and you argued that Jimmmmm is lying and scum tomorrow, where's the third PR?
That does work if you are scum and lying.yea, i was confused for a moment. I know since the claims are finished that either Ichi or Jimmmm is scum. so, if town!ichi implicated scum!me, I'd already know that it must be Ichi, and it'd mean that I misunderstood the setup this whole time.
You know what, it's so, so unfair to say that you don't like how I play and you don't like me, but you won't tell me why. I'm guilty for what? Quoting ash without keeping the whole quote in? Not being okay with him accusing me of personally attacking him?
You asked for it. Here why I find you dislikable in this game.Here's what I'm thinking.
Ichi was the first person to actually claim a PR. If he is scum, then the add on is Traitor Knows Mafia/SK.
If this is the case, then it's reasonable to assume that Ichi is the Traitor, since he would then have the most information and be in the best position to make a logical claim.
If Ichi was the Traitor, then he would know that we have either Column 3 or Row 3.
If we have Column 3, Psychologist is a believable claim since from a Neutral point of view with the other claims, we could have Row 4.
But if we have Row 3, there is in fact no logical fake claim, and a Psychologist claim would quickly be found out against the three real claims.
If he was instead the SK, he would know we have either Column 2, Column 3 or Row 1. This would make Psychologist a reasonable claim for scum trying to mess up ICs, but not so good for a SK trying to stay alive.
So if Ichi is scum then he didn't have enough information to know that his claim wouldn't immediately be caught out.
If, on the other hand, silver is scum and knew that the Mafia knew the Traitor, then he'd know we have either Row 4 or Column 2, neither of which would immediately out a fakeclaimed JK.
In summary, Ichi didn't have enough information to make a safe (at least safe enough to not be immediately outed) fakeclaim, while silver did.
Vote: silverspawn
This was the first thing that frustrated me. why? because the presentation is lacking so much. you just write "this and that and stuff and because of that it's things" and expect anyone else to grind through the setup to understand it. compare that to ash's posts, which explain everything in detail, post a copy of the setup, highlight parts, and generally make it so everyone has an easy time following them. with your post, you are just forcing us to invest a considerable amount of time into understanding your points, instead of investing time yourself to explain them better.
ash, that's a big wall of posts for a very wrong conclusion.Based on this, I believe there is only one scenario where Ichimaru Gin fakeclaims Psychologist, and that is as the Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup.
False.
If Ichi was a Mafia Traitor in a TKM setup, he knew that the Town PRs are either Commuter, JK and Detective (Column 3) or BP, JK and Bodyguard (Row 3). In the case of Column 3, which we now know is the real one if Ichi is lying, then he's fine, Psychologist is a safe claim.
But in the case of Row 3, Psychologist would be an absolutely disastrous claim. The four claims would then be BP, JK, Bodyguard and Psychologist, and there are no possible setups which have a Psychologist and two of the others - the only possible setup with these four claims is Row 3, which excludes Psychologist.
So a Traitor in TKM would absolutely not claim Psychologist without more information about what other roles are present.
ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy.
And this. As I just said (and said before), ash's setup analysis posts were great. you don't acknowledge that at all. If I were ash, this line alone
ash, that's a big wall of posts for a very wrong conclusion.
Would have hurt my feelings. You can argue all you want that it was directed at his posts, not at him, but that doesn't change the fact that it would have legitimately hurt me. Why is the "very" in there. Why do you have to reference his posts as "a big wall of text". That's just so incredibly inappropriate. and than the last line:
ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy
just comes off as really arrogant. and towards ash, that's saying something. Honestly, I think this is almost blatant disrespect for his skill. If you posted such an answer to one of my posts, I would not be offended, because I'm new at mafia. I think it's comparable to when I post a game analysis of dominion and then you come and say "false."
And to clarify, I'm not saying that you need to be super careful not to be insulting every time you disagree with ash on something mafia related. Don't pull this out of context. It all depends on the specific case. You could have said something like "Mh... I don't think that's right. If .... " and then made your point. And for the last line, you could have said "I actually think that ash arguing otherwise is extremely scummy." That would have conveyed an equal amount of information. And ash didn't even address you before, you really have no excuse for being so rude.
So it was a 1 in 5 chance he gets caught immediately.
Wrong. In the even of a massclaim Today, which had already been proposed, he had a 1 in 2 chance of being automatically lynched Today, and a 1 in 2 chance of being part of a 1 scum in 3. That's a 1 in 3 chance of surviving the Day. Scum don't willingly give themselves a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.
same thing again. start an answer with "wrong."
I am arguing that, AT THE TIME OF HIS CLAIM, he made the safest claim he could if he is a Traitor in TKM.
Wrong. The safest claim would be VT. Another safer option would be withhold claiming entirely, especially since (if I remember the timing rightly) I had already proposed a massclaim and probably seemed fairly likely to claim willingly.
Okay, I should have written out "safest PR fake claim he could make" instead of just claim. But now you are just making arguments to try to belittle me, and I don't appreciate it. You knew exactly what I mean when I wrote it in the context of my entire post. But you pulled out a single line and make a statement such as yours to try and make me look stupid and idiotic. Thanks.
Civility remember. Don't try to make things personal when they're not.
My point is valid - if scum he didn't have to claim a PR, and he certainly didn't have to claim when he did.
And this. What happened here is, ash posted something, he was slightly unspecific about a small thing that was clear from the context anyway, you are quoting this part and giving a response, completely unnecessary in my mind.
I like ash's response though. I think it's just as offensive as it is appropriate here, and this part
You knew exactly what I mean when I wrote it in the context of my entire post. But you pulled out a single line and make a statement such as yours to try and make me look stupid and idiotic. Thanks.
is just nailing it. That's exactly what happened.
And then... the first thing in your response is "Civility remember".
Just. why. i... omfg. i hate this kind of arguing. you are making a comment that's unnecessary, and easily offensive, ash answers in an honest way, and you immediately pull the civility card, just because his post happens to be more outside of the civility pledge. I actually respect people who don't try to hide themselves behind the pledge by smoothing their syntax in a way that avoids stepping over specific rules, but instead just say what they want to say. because, whether or not a post is "legal" according to a stupid civility pledge doesn't tell you anything about how offending it really is. you can hurt others plenty without stepping beyond the pledge, and in fact, I think you did that several times. Hiding behind the pledge after making these kinds of posts is just pathetic. And I'm sorry, but that's the only word that honestly reflects my feelings here.
I don't want to grind through the whole discussion, that would take a long time, let's just say that there is more.
But then, after the discussion, you are like "hey, I didn't do anything wrong, how can you side with ash here?" I already said this, I'll say it again, this is absurd. If someone is having a heated argument, how likely do you think it is that he doesn't consider himself having acted morally superior? I'm almost 100% sure that ash thought that. and yet, did he try to influence us into disliking you? no. he didn't.
Also, why are you forcing me to write this. What good could possibly come from me explaining why exactly I don't like you. I was just being honest, and it was a fact relevant to the game. Saying "I don't like you" is not an Insult, it's Honesty.
I don't back down from discussions though. You requested an answer, so here it is.
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
Except if Ichi somehow flips town, we're definitely lynching Silver. There's no other option, unless we move on to arguing that you or Jimmmmm is the liar.
not that it matters much (because we have a SK, if we mislynch once we probably lost the game anyway), but if we lynch Ichi and he flips town, would you rather lynch me next or Jimmmm?
People are making sense with this "silver is lining up the mislynches" thing.
Except if Ichi somehow flips town, we're definitely lynching Silver. There's no other option, unless we move on to arguing that you or Jimmmmm is the liar.
That's why he has to push Jimmmmm, at least as viable for tomorrow.
I am not lining up a Jimmm lynch. Where is this coming from? I mean, it doesn't matter, but why are you saying this? You should know me well enough by now to know that I separate these things. My post towards Jimmm wasn't about his alignment. I know that either Jimmm or Ichi is scum. It doesn't make any sense for me to argue in a hypothetical case of lynched!town!Ichi, because I know at that point that Jimmm is scum. Please stop saying that I'm trying to line up a Jimmm lynch.
You'll have to convince us that Jimmmmm is scum if Ichi turns town.
You'll have to convince us that Jimmmmm is scum if Ichi turns town.
uh, no? I don't have to do that. I'm totally fine with being lynched if we mislynch Ichi today. I think we're at lylo anyway, so it doesn't make a difference. plus, I said earlier in the day, if one town dies, you can lynch me.
I just don't like it when you say I do X when I really don't do X.
ok, I'm back. intent to hammer TONIGHT in the next hour.gotcha.
ok, I'm back. intent to hammer TONIGHT in the next hour.gotcha.
I think town can still win this even with my mislynch, so that's something. Sorry I wasn't able to convince you guys of the truth.
Well you guys guessed right. I did manage to hold out but in the end, you caught me.
silver-ash-witherweaver/faust-Eevee-Ichi
Your analysis of each claimants POV was spot on--so kudos for that. I probably would have done better to not start the game off with a huge amount of suspicion on me, but I thought it would blow over. It ended up sticking though.Well you guys guessed right. I did manage to hold out but in the end, you caught me.
Man, I love being right.
Your analysis of each claimants POV was spot on--so kudos for that. I probably would have done better to not start the game off with a huge amount of suspicion on me, but I thought it would blow over. It ended up sticking though.Well you guys guessed right. I did manage to hold out but in the end, you caught me.
Man, I love being right.
Yes. I did. And my anger was real--because I really thought I had been derphammered and killed right then. So definitely a "you killed me for the wrong reasons" moment. It would have really ticked me off if I had died D1 as scum to a derphammer.Your analysis of each claimants POV was spot on--so kudos for that. I probably would have done better to not start the game off with a huge amount of suspicion on me, but I thought it would blow over. It ended up sticking though.Well you guys guessed right. I did manage to hold out but in the end, you caught me.
Man, I love being right.
So did you really think you were hammered?
Dang, I had the right idea, I wish I would have played it better. Though in hindsight, if you really were PR you probably would have said it when you thought you were mislynchedExactly. In hindsight, I would have claimed a PR right then--especially since I did probably know more about the setup than anyone else at the time.
I mean... Look at every PR we mislynched. They always say it.. The thing that threw me off is that you never said you were town or were mislynched. Like you were pissed you were lynched, but not that you were mislynched. So I wanted some scenario where you making that statement (or neglecting to make it) would come up. The best I could think of was asking about your flip.I'm pretty sure I used the word mislynched a lot--but it seems like my lack of the claim D1 really did hurt me.
Dang, I had the right idea, I wish I would have played it better. Though in hindsight, if you really were PR you probably would have said it when you thought you were mislynched
Flavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
A Drowned Kernel has died! He was Allison Holston, a Vanilla Townie!
Day 2 start!
Thread unlocked!
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, faust, Witherweaver, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
Flavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
Didn't he pretty much agree to jailkeep me?
I mean, since the kills went through I'm pretty sure he didn't, but it would be better if he was more explicit so I would be cleared.Didn't he pretty much agree to jailkeep me?
Yeah, but he may he may have changed his mind.
In case it isn't clear, if ADK was double killed, Ash is cleared.Oh, true!
You know, going all out guns blazing against the lynch versus quietly trying to deflect it to someone else.
It's not super advantageous for scum to tie yourself to your partner the way I tied myself to Hydrad.
Sure, when I get to my computer, couple hours max.You know, going all out guns blazing against the lynch versus quietly trying to deflect it to someone else.
It's not super advantageous for scum to tie yourself to your partner the way I tied myself to Hydrad.
Can you cite?
I still think lynching WW is a good option here. I want to vote Jimmmmm for super lurking and not contributing, but sadly, that's not an alignment tell. joth could be scum, a little afraid of that - the stalling also supports his cause, because it means we will likely lynch Ichi. So yeah, I'd vote any of these I guess. I like WW best though.
Vote Count 2.3
Witherweaver (1): faust
Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (2): ashersky, Eevee
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
vote: Ichimaru Ginfaust reacting to silver's vote:
Yeah, let's start some wagons.
Vote: Jimmmmm
this could honestly be a scum slip. I'm not sure it is, but it could be. I already thought you were scum before though.
This is scummy... no way that was a scumslip.
Vote: silverspawn let's try this.
Want to lynch: WW, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
Would lynch: Hydrad, joth, ash
Won't lynch: Eevee, IG
Well, that was unnecessary.
Vote: Jimmmmm for now.
e: Could you retroactively add flavor to the Day starts? According to the setup, we should have the information on whether or not ADK was double targeted or single targeted:QuoteFlavor will indicate if a player was killed by multiple factions, but will not indicate which alignment performed specific kills.
But I think that's most likely, which makes it Ash/Faust.
I think what faust did regarding Hydrad is almost more damning my vehement opposion of the lynch.
Faust also the only one not voting for Ichi, and fairly not present yesterday with a lot of comments about needing to read and think. I think Faust is a good candidate for Mafia.
Though, there is still ambiguity from Mafia member as to whether Ichi was SK or Traitor, so we have to be somewhat careful about connections there.
Assuming Ichi targeted Joth ..
(1) Eevee is SK, Mafia targeted Eevee
(2) Eevee not SK:
(a) Mafia+SK targeted Eevee,
(b) Mafia target Eevee, SK did not shoot for ability
(c) Mafia target SK, who commuted or used BP shot
(d) SK Jailkept (RB) Mafia
Also, SK could have Jailkept Joth instead of Ichi. But SK would probably not choose to use JK shot . Unless they wanted to obfuscate setup.
I can't believe you're talking and talking and noone has done this:
<b>Can the Mafia Roleblocker block and kill in the same night?</b>
I can't believe you're talking and talking and noone has done this:
<b>Can the Mafia Roleblocker block and kill in the same night?</b>
I asked this already. And yes, I forgot the Eevee mafia scenarios.
But you went ahead and lynched Ichi.
But you went ahead and lynched Ichi.
This sounds...upset.
He was mafia, you know. It's a good thing we "went ahead" and lynched him.
But you went ahead and lynched Ichi.
This sounds...upset.
He was mafia, you know. It's a good thing we "went ahead" and lynched him.
I just don't like it when I ask people to wait and they don't.
But you went ahead and lynched Ichi.
This sounds...upset.
He was mafia, you know. It's a good thing we "went ahead" and lynched him.
I just don't like it when I ask people to wait and they don't.
I mean, okay...but...
He was mafia, man. Regardles of you wanting people to wait, given the result, you ought to be happier.
You just seem unneccarily unhappy with the result of the lynch yesterday.
I mean, you can't be THAT unhappy about it, so it ends up feeling fake because, why would he be angry we lynched mafia? If he's town, he should be happy. If he's mafia, he should act happy. If he's SK, he should be happy.
So, given in any scenario, you should seem happy to us, the fact that you are pushing this unhappy grumpyface seems intentional. For what reason, though? Possible to ensure consistency from one day to the next?
My hypothesis: he is mafia, that's why.
WW spearheaded the Hydrad lynch, ash ultimately enabled for Jimmm to hammer it. You tried to deflect us from it. To boot, you didn't exactly seem enthusiastic about lynching IG yesterday. You just fit for mafia easily the best, and any one of you could be the SK just the same, which makes you hands down the best lynch.My hypothesis: he is mafia, that's why.
Yes, you really seem sure about this. Can you explain to me why you don't think a combination of WW/ash is possible?
- Serial Killer wins when all other players have been eliminated. If a scenario exists where a Serial Killer and a Mafia the following will be followed:
* If Bernard is the last mafia alive, Mafia will win.
* If Senator Thurman or Anna Thurman is the last mafia alive, the SK will win.
Eevee, do you really want to make a potential game-losing move with such hand-wavy argumentation?What do you mean! It's tangible evidence of others actively getting scum lynched while you try to deflect away to town players.
Eevee, do you really want to make a potential game-losing move with such hand-wavy argumentation?What do you mean! It's tangible evidence of others actively getting scum lynched while you try to deflect away to town players.
How do you know he hasn't considered it?
Of course I'm willing to consider! You just aren't giving me anything to consider.Eevee, do you really want to make a potential game-losing move with such hand-wavy argumentation?What do you mean! It's tangible evidence of others actively getting scum lynched while you try to deflect away to town players.
You know, there's a thing called "bussing". Now really, I understand that you would think I'm scum, but is it so out of the question for you that someone else is mafia that you aren't even willing to consider it?
Either you are town, and this is some DoP-like endgame scenario, or you are scum trying to deflect away from your own lack of successful scumhunting.
I have!! Neither ash or WW fit for Hydrad's partner, you do to the dot.How do you know he hasn't considered it?
If he had, I would have expected him to share his thoughts on the topic.
SK!Eevee could of course have used a Strongman kill on silver/joth, if we assume that mafia can't block and kill.
Of course I'm willing to consider! You just aren't giving me anything to consider.Eevee, do you really want to make a potential game-losing move with such hand-wavy argumentation?What do you mean! It's tangible evidence of others actively getting scum lynched while you try to deflect away to town players.
You know, there's a thing called "bussing". Now really, I understand that you would think I'm scum, but is it so out of the question for you that someone else is mafia that you aren't even willing to consider it?
Either you are town, and this is some DoP-like endgame scenario, or you are scum trying to deflect away from your own lack of successful scumhunting.
Jimmm - IC.
WW - Instrumental in driving the Hydrad wagon early, also revived it after it died once. I haven't reread yesterday, but I felt his reads lined up with mine and that he was a contributor in getting IG lynched.
ash - Hammered Hydrad when Jimmm was also at L-1, which is very unmafialike. Less towny yesterday due to the fight with Jimmm, but again, I haven't reread the day so I don't even remember if he helped us lynching IG or not.
faust - Tried to derail the Hydrad wagon multiple times. Avoided the IG lynch yesterday and argued against it.
If you want me to consider ash or WW, you have to make a case and explain why. Just vaguely saying "bussing is a thing" does not a convincing argument make.
As far as the SK, I have a better feeling of WW for town because he's been agreeing with me a lot, but that's bad reasoning. Ash was jailed N1 and we are missing kills, but he would make sense for a target too, so that's a small piece of evidence. If faust isn't mafia, there is no reason he couldn't be the SK.
Frankly, I think the SK is hard to find. He has no partners and all the reason to scumhunt just as town does, so interactions or helpfulness aren't helping us. What we can do today is try to kill mafia, if we hit the SK as a consolation price, that's just dandy, but if we manage to lynch mafia we'll just have to hope we pick right tomorrow.
WW, ash, Jimm, am I crazy? Isn't faust incredibly scummy here?
Silver jailed me last night and there were two kills though. Would my strongman go through if I was in jail?
Okay, posting these in chronological order. If you want to reread IG's claim and Hydrad's lynch, just click on the first post I quote.I still think lynching WW is a good option here. I want to vote Jimmmmm for super lurking and not contributing, but sadly, that's not an alignment tell. joth could be scum, a little afraid of that - the stalling also supports his cause, because it means we will likely lynch Ichi. So yeah, I'd vote any of these I guess. I like WW best though.
For reference, the vote count at that time:Vote Count 2.3
Witherweaver (1): faust
Jimmmmm (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (2): ashersky, Eevee
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends on Wednesday, October 15, 7:30 PM FT.
silver reacting to the vote count:vote: Ichimaru Ginfaust reacting to silver's vote:Yeah, let's start some wagons.
Vote: Jimmmmmthis could honestly be a scum slip. I'm not sure it is, but it could be. I already thought you were scum before though.
This is scummy... no way that was a scumslip.
Vote: silverspawn let's try this.Want to lynch: WW, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
Would lynch: Hydrad, joth, ash
Won't lynch: Eevee, IG
This is after IG claimed:Well, that was unnecessary.
Vote: Jimmmmm for now.
And then nothing until ash and Jimm guide us to correctly lynching Hydrad.
Sigh. I fear the main reason I'm getting lynched here is that I was not around when the lynches happened D1 and D2.Well it's pretty damning when we lynch scum and you aren't there to help. It's not like you tried to push us towards Hydrad when you were present either. When silver said we needed more wagons and voted for IG, you promptly reacted by voting for Jimmm.
Sigh. I fear the main reason I'm getting lynched here is that I was not around when the lynches happened D1 and D2.Well it's pretty damning when we lynch scum and you aren't there to help. It's not like you tried to push us towards Hydrad when you were present either. When silver said we needed more wagons and voted for IG, you promptly reacted by voting for Jimmm.
That's all your posts! The rest of us were working to get IG or Hydrad lynched, and you tried to derail to multiple town targets and then disappearead. Literally all your votes were for town (or at least not mafia), despite there being two mafia players heavily wagoned.
What is there to comment? All you do is selectively choosing posts where I voted to make me look scummy. I don't have the slightest idea how this highlights ash and WW as being anti-mafia.
No, it's damning you were suspecting silverspawn, WW, Jimmm and joth, while the rest of us tried to move the lynch towards Hydrad and/or IG.Sigh. I fear the main reason I'm getting lynched here is that I was not around when the lynches happened D1 and D2.Well it's pretty damning when we lynch scum and you aren't there to help. It's not like you tried to push us towards Hydrad when you were present either. When silver said we needed more wagons and voted for IG, you promptly reacted by voting for Jimmm.
Yeah, it's damning when I sleep or am busy. Thanks.
That's all your posts! The rest of us were working to get IG or Hydrad lynched, and you tried to derail to multiple town targets and then disappearead. Literally all your votes were for town (or at least not mafia), despite there being two mafia players heavily wagoned.
What is there to comment? All you do is selectively choosing posts where I voted to make me look scummy. I don't have the slightest idea how this highlights ash and WW as being anti-mafia.
Final Vote Count
Jimmmmm (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, faust, Eevee
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, jotheonah, silverspawn, ashersky, Jimmmmm
Hydrad has been lynched! He was Bernard, a Mafia Goon
Everyone please check in tonight by sending me your original role PM from yuma as well as any night actions you may have to perform
Final Vote Count
silverspawn (2): Jimmmmm, Ichimaru Gin
Ichimaru Gin (5): ashersky, Eevee, silverspawn, witherweaver, jotheonah
Eevee (1): faust
Ichimaru Gin has been lynched! He was Anna Thurman, a Mafia Traitor.
I will be going v/la this weekend, so if at all possible, please submit night actions within the next 24 hours, and I will open up D4 Friday morning. If not, then I will be able to open up the game Saturday morning, it would just be sub-optimal for me.
Vote Count 1.FINAL
Ichimaru (1): Jimmmmm,
Witherweaver (1): faust,
Eevee (3): Witherweaver, ashersky, XerxesPraelorXerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, Eevee, Hydrad, silverspawn, jotheonah, ADK
Not Voting (0):
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
Jimmmm could have been shot, and commuted. SK could have used an ability instead of shooting; that ability could have blocked a Mafia kill.
I still think Eevee is more likely SK than Mafia. I was going more Town because of the Roleblocking/Jailkeeping issue, but there is the Strongman thing.
Jimmmm could have been shot, and commuted. SK could have used an ability instead of shooting; that ability could have blocked a Mafia kill.
I still think Eevee is more likely SK than Mafia. I was going more Town because of the Roleblocking/Jailkeeping issue, but there is the Strongman thing.
I think Jimmmmm implicated not having use his shot (we could have him confirm, I guess). I can't imagine why a SK would want to use an ability.
Jimmmm could have been shot, and commuted. SK could have used an ability instead of shooting; that ability could have blocked a Mafia kill.
I still think Eevee is more likely SK than Mafia. I was going more Town because of the Roleblocking/Jailkeeping issue, but there is the Strongman thing.
I think Jimmmmm implicated not having use his shot (we could have him confirm, I guess). I can't imagine why a SK would want to use an ability.
Yeah.. they may have strongly suspected being targeted (shooting or investigated) that night for whatever reason.
I didn't get the impression that Jimmmm implied one way or the other.
Jimmm, want to share?
Edit: Yeah I can see the point, but maybe it could help us lynch correctly today.
Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
That is a scummy post WW, but I'm sure you noticed how my views changed from that.
"Wow, sadly my read on IG wavered at times. Good thing I saw the light before it was too late, though."That is a scummy post WW, but I'm sure you noticed how my views changed from that.
"Wow, that was really scummy, I better be more careful in the future!" :P
"Too late" to earn town cred?Come on. I went after him very hard already the day before he got lynched, and yesterday I stayed on the wagon right from when it was formed.
It sounds so crazy. Why would he not just go for Jimm?
I feel you are grasping at straws. Sure, it could be ash, of course. Is that more likely than it being faust? No.It sounds so crazy. Why would he not just go for Jimm?
Yeah, that's the problem. But maybe for this? Ash has a pretty long history of not bussing his partners (which he has brought up before).
I feel you are grasping at straws. Sure, it could be ash, of course. Is that more likely than it being faust? No.It sounds so crazy. Why would he not just go for Jimm?
Yeah, that's the problem. But maybe for this? Ash has a pretty long history of not bussing his partners (which he has brought up before).
Doing a complete reread.
Reads from this, town to scum:
faust
silverspawn - VT claim. I kind of don't think he would do that if he had a partner, so if he's scum, it's either Traitor or SK. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today.
Ichimaru - suggests silverspawn is lying. I somehow don't think scum does that... thinks maybe, but doesn't post stuff like that. It's not good for town to post it, but I think it's more likely to come from town. His defensiveness and unwillingness to claim does not point towards him being scum for me.
joth - the vote on Ichi was sheepy. Seems a bit careless and I believe that's more likely to come from town.
ADK - starts SK hunting. Overall his posts seem like genuine scumhunting to me though.
Eevee - after all the Ichi craziness, says his flip will provide information... that is always a somewhat scummy motive for a lynch. Sheeps my WW case, which isn't a huge red flag, because obviously it was a really good case. Overall, I agree with him a lot. Slight town.
Jimmmmm - vote silver because VT claim is "not good". That is the only thing I put down. Not good, much lurking.
hydrad - asks what JK means, some scum points for that. Not much else, pretty null overall.
ashersky - says he has a plan, then doesn't. Seems a bit like emulating his town meta here. It also takes a long time for him to get into real scumhunting, not sure what that means.
xerxes - is super careless, almost in a mail-mi way sheeping people (and admitting that it's sheeping)... this could be fake. His L-1 on Ichi looks constructed.
witherweaver - lots of jokes early. In general, I don't quite buy his suspicion of Ichi, and a lot of his posts feel like he's twisting people's words instead of looking for scum. Gets defensive when people (hydrad) revisit my case on him.
So WW and Xerxes seem like the best options here. Don't want to lynch ashersky really, but I hope we'll get more from him when his VLA ends. I could do Jimmmmm or Hydrad. Other lynches are not so good.
I'm keeping my vote on WW for now, to see where this is going. Willing to change to Xerxes later.
On wagon NK could mean more scum off.
Can the Mafia Roleblocker block and kill in the same night?</b>yes. I couldn't find yuma's original intent concerning the issue anywhere in the setup info or mod qt, so I made the executive decision to play it that way.
Request prod on Jimmmmmmmsent
Yeah I'm here. We still have time.
Can the Mafia Roleblocker block and kill in the same night?</b>yes. I couldn't find yuma's original intent concerning the issue anywhere in the setup info or mod qt, so I made the executive decision to play it that way.
Can the Mafia Roleblocker block and kill in the same night?</b>yes. I couldn't find yuma's original intent concerning the issue anywhere in the setup info or mod qt, so I made the executive decision to play it that way.
Okay. This makes all theories with "Eevee can't be Mafia because he would have been blocked" moot, yes?
I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.
I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.
What's the difference between "clearing your name" and "gaining towncred", exactly?
I'm just saying contributing to a successfull mafia lynch like that is something that makes you less likely to be mafia. You know, this is why I don't think ash or WW are mafia.I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.
What's the difference between "clearing your name" and "gaining towncred", exactly?
the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
This was my first reason for voting for Eevee. I still find this post really scummy. I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner.
Also, sidenote. We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK. How does Mafia react to this? Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt? Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way). What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?
the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
This was my first reason for voting for Eevee. I still find this post really scummy. I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner.
Also, sidenote. We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK. How does Mafia react to this? Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt? Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way). What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?
the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
This was my first reason for voting for Eevee. I still find this post really scummy. I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner.
Also, sidenote. We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK. How does Mafia react to this? Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt? Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way). What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?
Well, PoE. Since everyone here (except Jimmmmm and me) voted Ichi, scum must have bussed, right?
Not if you are mafia.
the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.
I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.
Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.
So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.
This was my first reason for voting for Eevee. I still find this post really scummy. I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner.
Also, sidenote. We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK. How does Mafia react to this? Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt? Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way). What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?
Well, PoE. Since everyone here (except Jimmmmm and me) voted Ichi, scum must have bussed, right?
Then why is it Eevee and not Ash?
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
That's not all of the question. They also have to consider whether Ichi would reach the same conclusion as SK.
Because the question is whether they would know Ichi is the Traitor or SK. Saying claiming is not the correct SK play doesn't answer the question unless you know Ichi will make the correct play.
Because the question is whether they would know Ichi is the Traitor or SK. Saying claiming is not the correct SK play doesn't answer the question unless you know Ichi will make the correct play.
Again, to clarify my question, how is it helpful for us to know whether scum thought Ichi was the SK or their partner?
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim. We see how that turned out.
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim. We see how that turned out.
Well, fair point. I still don't see how this question is anything but purely academic right now. Who looks worse if we assume mafia assumed that Ichi was SK instead of Traitor?
And what about the other point. Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?
No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.
Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim. We see how that turned out.
Well, fair point. I still don't see how this question is anything but purely academic right now. Who looks worse if we assume mafia assumed that Ichi was SK instead of Traitor?
Well, you look better, right? Because then Ash/Eevee didn't bus. Or at least were only bussing with X% confidence.
Well, one scum quick hammering another isn't the worst thing. It gives us possible lylo tomorrow with a scummy quick hammer.
Well, one scum quick hammering another isn't the worst thing. It gives us possible lylo tomorrow with a scummy quick hammer.
Well, one scum quick hammering another isn't the worst thing. It gives us possible lylo tomorrow with a scummy quick hammer.
Well, one scum hammering town is bad though.
Well, one scum quick hammering another isn't the worst thing. It gives us possible lylo tomorrow with a scummy quick hammer.
Well, one scum hammering town is bad though.
Yes. But it's actually bad for scum, too, I think.
If both scum are alive going into the night, it seems like a game of chicken, since other than Jimmmmm, no one's fully cleared.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
ash, where do you stand on me vs Eevee right now?
I think you're missing that I was the only one that wanted Hydrad lynched for quite a while. I don't think it would have happened without me. You can say bussing, but the narrative for that is a stretch at best.
Well, you and Eevee.
I was just pointing out what the dilemma is for the rest of us. You and Eevee have it easiest.
I think your voting history is very very mafia-like. I don't know why they'd shoot me or if Jimmm commuted, but it's not out of the realm unlikely like you are making it out to be.I was just pointing out what the dilemma is for the rest of us. You and Eevee have it easiest.
I see that, but I think the facts should speak for Eevee as mafia. I don't see a good narrative for no kill N2 otherwise.
I haven't given up. I've laid out why I think it's very likely faust is the last mafia, and why I tentatively suspect ash for the serial killer, but the tide seems to be against me. I'm assuming repeating the same things isn't going to help my case here. If anyone has any questions, I'm interested!
faust is trying harder than Eevee to survive. That could be a tell for either alignment.
I want to stick with my gut here...
I may be around for deadline, maybe not, as it's a busy week. I've been strongly confident in my Eevee read since the Hydrad lynch. But then, faust was the strongest opponent of an Ichi lynch that isn't an IC.
I mean, I think they are both scum anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter which order we go in? I'll definitely vote before deadline.
I haven't given up. I've laid out why I think it's very likely faust is the last mafia, and why I tentatively suspect ash for the serial killer, but the tide seems to be against me. I'm assuming repeating the same things isn't going to help my case here. If anyone has any questions, I'm interested!
I didn't say you'd given up, just that it seems like faust is trying harder. It was more a comment on faust than you. I know I've been accused of trying harder as scum.
faust is trying harder than Eevee to survive. That could be a tell for either alignment.
I want to stick with my gut here...
I may be around for deadline, maybe not, as it's a busy week. I've been strongly confident in my Eevee read since the Hydrad lynch. But then, faust was the strongest opponent of an Ichi lynch that isn't an IC.
I mean, I think they are both scum anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter which order we go in? I'll definitely vote before deadline.
You are remarkably careless here compared to the effort you put into figuring out that Ichi was scum. Are you so sure that WW is town?
A day and a bit until deadline. I'm not going to end up getting time to do a full re-read, but I am finding faust's case on Eevee more compelling than anything I've seen Eevee say about faust.I don't have anything new, I said all I have a week ago already. Faust's voting history is incredibly scummy, but either I'm the only one to think that or you think the lack of deaths N2 is more important. I don't know what happened then, but if scum made an unconventional decision to kill me that night and they win because of that, good for them.
Eevee, convince me that you're Town and faust is scum.
Ok so here are my reads right now.
I'm going to do a scale of 1 - 10. where 10 is most likely scum and 1 is towny. 5 is null
WW: Still like fausts case on WW and is one of my higher scum reads. 8
silverspawn: Don't think scum would pull that VT move. seems towny but if there is a SK I think hes it. still think hes more town then SK though. 3
Eevee: Can't read this game that well. weird that he pushed xp and no one cares that much about it. 5
IG: Still feels really towny to me. 2
joth: I still think joth is scummy. I'm not sure how everyone seems to have such a town read on him. 7 for me.
faust: Only played with in dice mafia. I feel like his playstyle is different so this ones a bit more of a gut read. 7
Hydrad: -1 so towny i'm off the scale
ashersky: very little info but don't think town or scum asher would lurk for much reason. slight town read I guess but very little info to go off of 4.9
jimmm: for lurking and POE he is one of my higher lynch wants now. This is probably one of my more willing lynches as letting someone lurk till the end makes it almost impossible to read them to see if they are town or scum. I feel like this is what kinda happened in zelda mafia where I just couldn't build a case on him and he ended up winning there. 8
With this in mind I actually want to go for Vote: Jimmm Now.
PPE:3
I don't want to fish for Jimm's role, so I'm assuming they shot me. Serial killers don't necessarily think so hard who they are shooting, so I don't think it's a stretch. Why mafia would shoot me I honestly have no clue though.
The whole Jailkeeping thing makes Eevee look worse. What are the explanations for no kill?
Wait wait wait.. SK has 1-shot bulletproof. I keep forgetting that.Oh! So that could explain the missing mafia kill quite believably!
Mafia tries to kill someone... obvious targets are me, Joth, Jimmmm.. maybe Jimmm commuted? Maybe SK shot him too? I don't know.
If you would just read my posts... I have already laid out everything you just figured out :P But I guess reading posts is a scumtell.
Mafia tries to kill someone... obvious targets are me, Joth, Jimmmm.. maybe Jimmm commuted? Maybe SK shot him too? I don't know.
How was Jimmmmm an "obvious target" for the mafia kill?
Faust, what do you think happened to the SK kill?
4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
I don't think this was Eevee's first reaction. This seems a little misleading.
Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
Well, d'uh. It was/is very unlikely from my perspective that his claim could be truthful. Needed some additional analysis I wasn't capable of doing to get there, but I did. :)4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
I don't think this was Eevee's first reaction. This seems a little misleading.
Hmmm, you're right I guess. I was referring to this:Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
but it wasn't really his "initial reaction". Still the first vote of Eevee after the claims.
4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
I don't think this was Eevee's first reaction. This seems a little misleading.
Hmmm, you're right I guess. I was referring to this:Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
but it wasn't really his "initial reaction". Still the first vote of Eevee after the claims.
Eevee's confusion about the SK seems highly artificial. This has been mentioned multiple times, I'm sure, and is the only semi-reasonable explanation for town!Eevee staying alive. Eevee is a good enough player to realize this.I don't think it's been mentioned multiple times, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed. If I had, you don't think I would have used the argument myself already?
I still think Jimm should not tell us. It's not enough we get it right today, we also have to win the game, and Jimm's role situation unexplained could really help us with that.
Eevee's confusion about the SK seems highly artificial. This has been mentioned multiple times, I'm sure, and is the only semi-reasonable explanation for town!Eevee staying alive. Eevee is a good enough player to realize this.I don't think it's been mentioned multiple times, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed. If I had, you don't think I would have used the argument myself already?
4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
I don't think this was Eevee's first reaction. This seems a little misleading.
Hmmm, you're right I guess. I was referring to this:Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
but it wasn't really his "initial reaction". Still the first vote of Eevee after the claims.
Well, d'uh. It was/is very unlikely from my perspective that his claim could be truthful. Needed some additional analysis I wasn't capable of doing to get there, but I did. :) You are of course leaving out the part where I switched to IG and rode that wagon hard.
I've tried to be the analytic town. :DEevee's confusion about the SK seems highly artificial. This has been mentioned multiple times, I'm sure, and is the only semi-reasonable explanation for town!Eevee staying alive. Eevee is a good enough player to realize this.I don't think it's been mentioned multiple times, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed. If I had, you don't think I would have used the argument myself already?
Maybe you thought playing confused town would work better than playing analytic town, what do I know?
4. Eevee and the Ichi lynch
Eevee's first reaction to the massclaim was trying to get silver lynched (which is, I guess, reasonable as either alignment). Then comes ashersky's analysis, and I guess Eevee feels he can't argue against that, so he gives in to lynching Ichi. And of course tries to get towncred for it. That whole episode with how Eevee acted towards Ichi was so scummy. I suggest you reread it. It was scum thinking they have lost an argument instead of town trying to figure out if ash's analysis was actually waterproof.
So, this is all. I hope it's enough.
I don't think this was Eevee's first reaction. This seems a little misleading.
Hmmm, you're right I guess. I was referring to this:Vote: silverspawn seems pretty clear to me then..
but it wasn't really his "initial reaction". Still the first vote of Eevee after the claims.
But it's after quite a bit of back and forths and evidence of trying to think things through. Initially he was going on about Silver being townie.
I'm off! Don't do anything stupid.
Well, that was unnecessary.
Vote: Jimmmmm for now.
Well this is unfortunate. I don't really want to lynch any of the viable candidates now.
Probably still like IG best, of the realistic options.
Joth, when you put it that way (and I feel the information you listed was accurate and fair), Jimm seems far and away the best choice.
My prefered lynches aren't happening, so I'll Vote: Jimmm. I feel scum is making me compromise though. :/
Okay, everyone needs to take responsibility and we need to get a lynch through.
Want to lynch: IG, WW
Would lynch: joth, maaaaybe ash
No opinion: Jimmm, maaaaybe ash
Would actively oppose lynching: silverspawn, faust, Hydrad
All rows are in the order of certainty.
I feel my vote is best served on IG because not enough people want WW (or joth), but if that's mistaken, those wagons have my vote.
Want to lynch: WW, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
Would lynch: Hydrad, joth, ash
Won't lynch: Eevee, IG
In the end,to me, Faust had terrible reads, eevee took scummy action/inaction. Now part of that is timing, Faust wasn't around at a time where he could take definitively scummy action.
I think the N2 situation is hard to explain, as WW showed. The most likely scenario is a killer was unable to kill or chose not to. One of those is more likely than the other.
SK bulletproof is not passive, so you have to think SK had a reason to actively choose to use it over the other powers AND on N2. Was Faust or Eevee likely to make that call? I don't see it.
I think eevee failed to kill (jailed) and Faust failed to kill eevee (eevee in jail) is most sensible.
In the end,to me, Faust had terrible reads, eevee took scummy action/inaction. Now part of that is timing, Faust wasn't around at a time where he could take definitively scummy action.I disagree. I had a bad read on Hydrad, but I've been very transparent in my dealings, while faust has these convenient disappearances with his vote left on a place that benefited scum. His voting behavior matches that of a partner to the dot in both IG and Hydrad wagons.
Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Who is getting lynched!Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Yeah I'm around.
Who is getting lynched!Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Yeah I'm around.
Who is getting lynched!Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Yeah I'm around.
Tossing up between you and faust.
Who is getting lynched!Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Yeah I'm around.
Tossing up between you and faust.
What would SK want to do in this scenario? Lynch Mafia or Town?
Who is getting lynched!Jimmmm, you around? Deadline is 5:00, right?
Yeah I'm around.
Tossing up between you and faust.
What would SK want to do in this scenario? Lynch Mafia or Town?
Mafia I'd say. At least that way his fate is in his own ability not to get lynched rather than in avoiding the Mafia kill.
In the end,to me, Faust had terrible reads, eevee took scummy action/inaction. Now part of that is timing, Faust wasn't around at a time where he could take definitively scummy action.
I think the N2 situation is hard to explain, as WW showed. The most likely scenario is a killer was unable to kill or chose not to. One of those is more likely than the other.
SK bulletproof is not passive, so you have to think SK had a reason to actively choose to use it over the other powers AND on N2. Was Faust or Eevee likely to make that call? I don't see it.
I think eevee failed to kill (jailed) and Faust failed to kill eevee (eevee in jail) is most sensible.
SK bulletproof IS passive.
My gut is still telling me Faust.
WW, why faust? Link your most convincing post if you like.
I keep coming back to actions versus words.
Faust gained a lot of scumminess in my eyes because of his vehement opposition to the Ichi lynch. But, well, that could be a really bad read, and it seems over the top for a partner move. I think bussing there is much more likely. Other than that, and the fact that he was arguing against me (which always add scumminess to people, for everyone, no matter what you say), I don't have an argument to make him scummier than Eevee.
In the end, if I still believe WW is town, he's scum anyway. But I think today we need to lynch the one whom we are most sure of.
I'm going to Ctrl-F Ichi's posts and see what I get from it.
Just finished Ichi's D1. All there was in regards to interactions that I noticed (with folks still alive) is buddying Eevee. A few posts explicitly saying he "agreed" with him.
The most convincing thing for Eevee---that there was no kill the night he was Jailkept---isn't as convincing as it seemed to be. Because whether Eevee or Faust is Mafia, the explanation for the lack of SK kill is the same. The only difference is:
1) If Eevee is Mafia, Jailkeeping prevented kill.
2) If Faust is Mafia, Faust shot SK!Ash or Eevee. First being most likely.
Is the second scenario much less believable than the first? I'm not too convinced.
Just finished Ichi's D1. All there was in regards to interactions that I noticed (with folks still alive) is buddying Eevee. A few posts explicitly saying he "agreed" with him.
Would you do that to your partner when they don't know you? He almost ignored Hydrad.
The most convincing thing for Eevee---that there was no kill the night he was Jailkept---isn't as convincing as it seemed to be. Because whether Eevee or Faust is Mafia, the explanation for the lack of SK kill is the same. The only difference is:
1) If Eevee is Mafia, Jailkeeping prevented kill.
2) If Faust is Mafia, Faust shot SK!Ash or Eevee. First being most likely.
Is the second scenario much less believable than the first? I'm not too convinced.
I actually think the most convincing thing for Eevee is the end of Day 2, when Hydrad was lynched. Reread those pages.
As for why there were zero kills on N2, we're missing two kills no matter what. One Goon was dead, the traitor can't kill, so there is exactly one mafia who can kill. And then there's an SK. Eevee being jailkept is the most plausible reason for one kill being missing. I think you are looking at the lack of a second kill and seeing how that might clear Eevee. I just don't see it.
If Eevee is mafia, he couldn't kill. If Eevee is SK, he couldn't kill. What happened to the other kill, whether it was Eevee was shot or Jimmmmm commuted or the SK didn't shoot and used a power or whatever I don't think takes away from the argument against Eevee here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see that night specifically.
Has anyone but me even reread Hydrad? He has been reasonably active (we've all been very active except for Jimm and maybe ash), and his posts are rich on content. The "scummy things" are just Hydrad things, unless you have something specific it's just the scummy vibe everyone in the world ever always gets from him for whatever reason.
Yeah, I dunno:Has anyone but me even reread Hydrad? He has been reasonably active (we've all been very active except for Jimm and maybe ash), and his posts are rich on content. The "scummy things" are just Hydrad things, unless you have something specific it's just the scummy vibe everyone in the world ever always gets from him for whatever reason.
This is a really ballsy thing to do to your partner. The problem is it's, like, really convincing as misguided town. Because Hydrad is always scummy, like, all the time.
And, well, "his posts are rich on content" is basically just not true. That makes it a little more likely for Eevee to just be incorrect about this.. as scum you'd want your arguments to be better.
But, maybe Eevee was grasping.
Yeah, I dunno:Has anyone but me even reread Hydrad? He has been reasonably active (we've all been very active except for Jimm and maybe ash), and his posts are rich on content. The "scummy things" are just Hydrad things, unless you have something specific it's just the scummy vibe everyone in the world ever always gets from him for whatever reason.
This is a really ballsy thing to do to your partner. The problem is it's, like, really convincing as misguided town. Because Hydrad is always scummy, like, all the time.
And, well, "his posts are rich on content" is basically just not true. That makes it a little more likely for Eevee to just be incorrect about this.. as scum you'd want your arguments to be better.
But, maybe Eevee was grasping.
You could make that argument about faust's defense of Ichi. It's either really scummy or really misguided town.
The difference is that Hydrad had a partner who knew him and they hadn't lost anyone yet. Ichi may or may not have been known to be the traitor, right? Until he was lynched the setup wasn't known for sure. So faust would have been defending a partner he wasn't positive about.
What did faust do during the hydrad lynch?
Well that... okay.
Well that... okay.
Not sure why Ash shot Faust though. Wouldn't he have a better chance of winning by shooting me? He wins on endgame with him+mafia, right?
Up to Jimmmmm.
I feel like you are in this position really often.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Go read Faust. He thought I was the SK. Don't you think he would have roleblocked me?
My best guess is he roleblocked me and shot Jimmmmm or WW to force a lylo with me, who he suspected was the SK.
And since WW wasn't roleblocked, he was able to kill faust, who he was all over on D4, and try to get me lynched. He had been under no suspicion the whole game, so he's in a good spot.
I definitely wouldn't do what Silver did as an SK, though. The only reason I'd buy it at all is because he did something very similar as a Survivor in Bastard Mafia. It didn't work out to well for him there, though, so I wonder if he'd be bold enough to try something like that in a regular game.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Go read Faust. He thought I was the SK. Don't you think he would have roleblocked me?
Huh, that is weird. Maybe he thought you'd go for Town, since you'd win if he was still alive.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Go read Faust. He thought I was the SK. Don't you think he would have roleblocked me?
Huh, that is weird. Maybe he thought you'd go for Town, since you'd win if he was still alive.
According to the OP, the auto-win only happens if it's mafia and SK only. No matter what, there's a town member alive today, so I don't see why you think the SK was banking on the auto-win.
To me, it sounds like you made an error about your own wincon.
My best guess is he roleblocked me and shot Jimmmmm or WW to force a lylo with me, who he suspected was the SK.
And since WW wasn't roleblocked, he was able to kill faust, who he was all over on D4, and try to get me lynched. He had been under no suspicion the whole game, so he's in a good spot.
Why would I want to kill Faust as SK? How does me being "all over" him relate at all to this, since your argument was that I was just acting as town?
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Go read Faust. He thought I was the SK. Don't you think he would have roleblocked me?
Huh, that is weird. Maybe he thought you'd go for Town, since you'd win if he was still alive.
According to the OP, the auto-win only happens if it's mafia and SK only. No matter what, there's a town member alive today, so I don't see why you think the SK was banking on the auto-win.
To me, it sounds like you made an error about your own wincon.
If Mafia shoots town and SK shoots town, and both go through, then SK wins.
Though I guess.. if it's you, Faust, Jimmm, then Jimmm gets to be kingmaker and you have no choice.
If you kill Faust and either have BP left or Jimmm commutes, then you get to go for your mislynch here.
So, maybe that's the motivation.
My best guess is he roleblocked me and shot Jimmmmm or WW to force a lylo with me, who he suspected was the SK.
And since WW wasn't roleblocked, he was able to kill faust, who he was all over on D4, and try to get me lynched. He had been under no suspicion the whole game, so he's in a good spot.
Why would I want to kill Faust as SK? How does me being "all over" him relate at all to this, since your argument was that I was just acting as town?
Because you wanted to lynch mafia to put yourself in the best position going into night. You'd have free reign to do whatever you wanted. You really seemed focused on hitting the right scum (mafia) as opposed to just hitting scum. And that was in your best interest. When it failed, you had to scramble. You were pushing faust until the end, but it wasn't because you feared you were wrong on Eevee -- you never made any case against me. So if you thought it was eevee/faust, like I did, you shouldn't have had such a problem with the lynch order.
My best guess is he roleblocked me and shot Jimmmmm or WW to force a lylo with me, who he suspected was the SK.
And since WW wasn't roleblocked, he was able to kill faust, who he was all over on D4, and try to get me lynched. He had been under no suspicion the whole game, so he's in a good spot.
Why would I want to kill Faust as SK? How does me being "all over" him relate at all to this, since your argument was that I was just acting as town?
Because you wanted to lynch mafia to put yourself in the best position going into night. You'd have free reign to do whatever you wanted. You really seemed focused on hitting the right scum (mafia) as opposed to just hitting scum. And that was in your best interest. When it failed, you had to scramble. You were pushing faust until the end, but it wasn't because you feared you were wrong on Eevee -- you never made any case against me. So if you thought it was eevee/faust, like I did, you shouldn't have had such a problem with the lynch order.
And the main thing, in a broader context than this game: a case being ultimately correct or incorrect is not the same as it being good or bad. "Correct" or "Incorrect" is whether they flip scum or town, but good or bad is the actual reasoning behind thinking what you're thinking, with the information you have available to you at the time.
I can, say, be a vig, randomly target someone, and hit scum and feel great about it, but my "argument" (in this case, choosing randomly) was obviously terrible. Less extremely, I can make a bad argument against scum and just be lucky. I can also make a good argument against town as town, or a good argument against town as scum.
Or as a general example, most, if not all, Day 1 cases are bad. But we still hit scum Day 1.
Voting for people is how the game is played, and in a lot of cases as town you're going to vote against other town players. This is actually a good thing, because it can lead to more information to let you (and the other players) know if they really are scum or are actually town.
And being "caught for the wrong reasons" is definitely a thing. I feel it as scum when I get suspected for things that I didn't think warranted suspicion.
My best guess is he roleblocked me and shot Jimmmmm or WW to force a lylo with me, who he suspected was the SK.
And since WW wasn't roleblocked, he was able to kill faust, who he was all over on D4, and try to get me lynched. He had been under no suspicion the whole game, so he's in a good spot.
Why would I want to kill Faust as SK? How does me being "all over" him relate at all to this, since your argument was that I was just acting as town?
Because you wanted to lynch mafia to put yourself in the best position going into night. You'd have free reign to do whatever you wanted. You really seemed focused on hitting the right scum (mafia) as opposed to just hitting scum. And that was in your best interest. When it failed, you had to scramble. You were pushing faust until the end, but it wasn't because you feared you were wrong on Eevee -- you never made any case against me. So if you thought it was eevee/faust, like I did, you shouldn't have had such a problem with the lynch order.
Well, hopefully this can be recognized as an artificial argument, because it is. I'm not really sure if my posts are evidence enough on that, but I'm guessing they are since I was basically filterless posting the entire time.
Jimmmmm did you commute? If not, Faust shot BP Ash last night, and it had to be the passive BP, meaning it was still up.
Go read Faust. He thought I was the SK. Don't you think he would have roleblocked me?
Huh, that is weird. Maybe he thought you'd go for Town, since you'd win if he was still alive.
According to the OP, the auto-win only happens if it's mafia and SK only. No matter what, there's a town member alive today, so I don't see why you think the SK was banking on the auto-win.
To me, it sounds like you made an error about your own wincon.
If Mafia shoots town and SK shoots town, and both go through, then SK wins.
And how would you try to coordinate that across factions?
And wouldn't the mafia attempt to shoot the SK since you've pointed out the mafia can't win on endgame ties? So the SK would know that your plan doesn't work.
QuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
The most convincing thing for Eevee---that there was no kill the night he was Jailkept---isn't as convincing as it seemed to be. Because whether Eevee or Faust is Mafia, the explanation for the lack of SK kill is the same. The only difference is:
1) If Eevee is Mafia, Jailkeeping prevented kill.
2) If Faust is Mafia, Faust shot SK!Ash or Eevee. First being most likely.
Is the second scenario much less believable than the first? I'm not too convinced.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Witherweaver on D2 finding ways to explain away missing kills that are not the SK. Makes sense to try and keep thoughts away from SK for as long as possible.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Witherweaver on D2 finding ways to explain away missing kills that are not the SK. Makes sense to try and keep thoughts away from SK for as long as possible.
I don't remember if I posted the thinking of this:The most convincing thing for Eevee---that there was no kill the night he was Jailkept---isn't as convincing as it seemed to be. Because whether Eevee or Faust is Mafia, the explanation for the lack of SK kill is the same. The only difference is:
1) If Eevee is Mafia, Jailkeeping prevented kill.
2) If Faust is Mafia, Faust shot SK!Ash or Eevee. First being most likely.
Is the second scenario much less believable than the first? I'm not too convinced.
I think I had another post about tracing night kills. If Faust is Mafia, then he doesn't shoot Eevee (because Eevee for mislynch). So why no Mafia kill? He shot BP!SK. Not Eevee, so has to be Ash.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Witherweaver on D2 finding ways to explain away missing kills that are not the SK. Makes sense to try and keep thoughts away from SK for as long as possible.
And wait, this is me explaining missing kills BECAUSE the SK is not killing. I'm confused about your argument.
I don't remember if I posted the thinking of this:The most convincing thing for Eevee---that there was no kill the night he was Jailkept---isn't as convincing as it seemed to be. Because whether Eevee or Faust is Mafia, the explanation for the lack of SK kill is the same. The only difference is:
1) If Eevee is Mafia, Jailkeeping prevented kill.
2) If Faust is Mafia, Faust shot SK!Ash or Eevee. First being most likely.
Is the second scenario much less believable than the first? I'm not too convinced.
I think I had another post about tracing night kills. If Faust is Mafia, then he doesn't shoot Eevee (because Eevee for mislynch). So why no Mafia kill? He shot BP!SK. Not Eevee, so has to be Ash.
Which may be a fine argument in theory, but you are also trying to argue that I was shot last night by faust and survived due to BP!SKness. So when was I shot, then?
I think we'd figured out that the mafia needed to shoot the SK for sure to have a shot at winning. Did he shoot me on N4? Or did he shoot me on N2?
Nooooo vote my partners first
No, Jimmm said he commuted, so Jimmm could have been shot last night.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Witherweaver on D2 finding ways to explain away missing kills that are not the SK. Makes sense to try and keep thoughts away from SK for as long as possible.
And wait, this is me explaining missing kills BECAUSE the SK is not killing. I'm confused about your argument.
You are bringing up the traitor's roleblock for the first time in this chain -- you are introducing an alternate reason for a lack of kill. So it's classic misdirection (hey, look at this hand here with the coin so you don't notice me take your wallet!)
No, Jimmm said he commuted, so Jimmm could have been shot last night.
Right, but only by the SK. Mafia had to kill the SK to win because he loses the auto-endgame.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: jotheonah on October 06, 2014, 09:29:21 am
I mean, 2 SK slots also have a jailkeeper, so that's another explanation for the missed kill. ADK being double-targeted seems extremely unlikely.
Traitor has Roleblock, too. So I think in every case some kind of blocking is possible. (It's either SK or Recruited Traitor, right?)
Witherweaver on D2 finding ways to explain away missing kills that are not the SK. Makes sense to try and keep thoughts away from SK for as long as possible.
And wait, this is me explaining missing kills BECAUSE the SK is not killing. I'm confused about your argument.
You are bringing up the traitor's roleblock for the first time in this chain -- you are introducing an alternate reason for a lack of kill. So it's classic misdirection (hey, look at this hand here with the coin so you don't notice me take your wallet!)
Uh, okay, but I was constantly bringing SK up.
Not that I really want to lynch SK today, I just wanted to point it out here so I don't forget it later.
No, Jimmm said he commuted, so Jimmm could have been shot last night.
Right, but only by the SK. Mafia had to kill the SK to win because he loses the auto-endgame.
WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
I guess also.. if I was Mafia, I would probably just bring up Silver's SK thing in my QT later instead of point it out here.
Though I guess I could be SK, but then Faust would be SK hunting, so he should vote for himself. Of course, he kind of already implied this:WW hunting a SK that (quite likely) might not even be in this game is super scummy. Or maybe he knows that there's a SK?
Why is it okay for you to "SK hunt", but when anyone else thinks about SK's it's scummy?
Anyway, I have to go.
To Jimmmmmm:
The principle piece of evidence is Ash being Jailkept Night 1 and there only being one kill. That's not conclusive, I know. The other thing that tipped me off to Ash being SK, other than the Faust being Mafia logic, was the way he handled the Eevee/Faust thing. It read kind of off to me.. like not from a townie perspective. He kind of didn't really care if it was a mislynch or not, then realized he really should care more.
I, on the other hand, obviously did not want a mislynch there. Hopefully you can see I looked very Town trying to figure out if it really was Faust or Eevee.
Isn't it Mafia that is investigation immune and not SK? Someone said it was SK.
Possibilities on no kill:
(I) NO SK:
(1) Eevee was the target by Mafia and Silver is telling the truth. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
(2) Eevee was the killer and Silver is telling the truth. Makes more sense.
(3) Jimmmm was the target and commuted
(4) Traitor did not know Mafia and Roleblocked killer. (Unlikely I think.)
(II) SK:
(1) Eevee was the target by SK and Silver is telling the truth. Still seems unlikely.. does it make sense for SK to target Eevee here?
(2) All of (1--4) by Mafia and SK chose to not kill in order to use an ability. (Investigation immunity, for instance. Or is that passive?)
(3) All of (1--4) by Mafia and SK also shot the same target. Also unlikely.
All these cases are getting a bit rough. Can someone make a table of each PR lying and what it means for the setup, specifically SK/no SK?
PPE: Faust. Also has a point on Jailkeeping that can be added to above.
Though I guess.. if it's you, Faust, Jimmm, then Jimmm gets to be kingmaker and you have no choice.
Though I guess.. if it's you, Faust, Jimmm, then Jimmm gets to be kingmaker and you have no choice.
In that situation I refuse to vote anything other than no-lynch and hope they shoot each other.
I've been following and re-reading. I know which way I'm leaning.
I've been following and re-reading. I know which way I'm leaning.
By default you always lean toward lynching me, you know.
I've been following and re-reading. I know which way I'm leaning.
By default you always lean toward lynching me, you know.
Not by default, only when you're scummy.
I've been following and re-reading. I know which way I'm leaning.
By default you always lean toward lynching me, you know.
Not by default, only when you're scummy.
Pretty sure that is the default.
I've been following and re-reading. I know which way I'm leaning.
By default you always lean toward lynching me, you know.
Not by default, only when you're scummy.
Pretty sure that is the default.
Now I'll feel bad if I lynch you. Good job.
If it helps, you'll crush all my hopes and dreams if you lynch me.
Goodness me 2 days goes by quickly.
Goodness me 2 days goes by quickly.
You have to learn to stop and lynch the Ashes. Or smell the roses. Or however that goes. But lynch the Ashes.
The Rules:5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
Games usually get very lax about inactivity in later days, and I have done the same thing. However, after 4 days of inactivity, this is a second prod on Jimmmmm. One more prod will result in a mod-kill.
madness that eventually caught Ichimaru Gin;D
ashersky. Uhh, playing against ashersky is hard, almost as hard as playing on ashersky's side... he's a good player, but often misunderstood.
This could have happened yesterday and we would have (most surely) lost and I'd have no argument. But there was really no reason for him to post.
This could have happened yesterday and we would have (most surely) lost and I'd have no argument. But there was really no reason for him to post.
If it happened yesterday, and the day continued and we lynched Eevee, you would have been kingmaker, since Faust would have RB + Kill, forcing me to BP and not kill.
If it happened yesterday, and the day ended...well, it's me/faust/you/eevee...I still shoot faust, so if faust kills town there, I win, if not, it's lylo.
Well whomever he voted for lost. So he was effectively picking.
I'd like to know who he would have voted for. I feel like the thing that indicated you were SK is that you werepretty under the radar and non controversialtoo towny.
Ha, well, I've never seen town you not get in a huge argument or some big controversy.
Why no kill last night?
If it was you/me/WW/Jimmmmm, were you so certain you could convince them? Or would you have pushed for a No Lynch?
Because wasn't WW pushing you over Eevee? At best it was split 2/2, so we go No Lynch and do it over. If you had shot me last night, I would have lost my strongman and you would have won for sure.
Sorry Eevee, for thinking you were mafia. You really did paint yourself into that corner though. If I had listened to you on faust, the game might have ended sooner.
How did I paint myself in that corner, though?Sorry Eevee, for thinking you were mafia. You really did paint yourself into that corner though. If I had listened to you on faust, the game might have ended sooner.
Well, noone can really blame you for thinking Eevee was mafia... even I thought he was for quite some time, and I was mafia myself!
How did I paint myself in that corner, though?Sorry Eevee, for thinking you were mafia. You really did paint yourself into that corner though. If I had listened to you on faust, the game might have ended sooner.
Well, noone can really blame you for thinking Eevee was mafia... even I thought he was for quite some time, and I was mafia myself!
How did I paint myself in that corner, though?Sorry Eevee, for thinking you were mafia. You really did paint yourself into that corner though. If I had listened to you on faust, the game might have ended sooner.
Well, noone can really blame you for thinking Eevee was mafia... even I thought he was for quite some time, and I was mafia myself!
so much for preventing 3 kills, according to the night actions, I didn't prevent a single one :( ash, not shooting twice in a row was an interesting decision.
Well add me to the list of people frustrated by the ending. But also, we could point to this as a reason to lynch lurkers for the rest of time, so there's that.
ash, masterfully played. you're pretty good at this game.
Look silver. It's obvious you have something to say to me. Why not just say it? Why play games and try to draw this out further?
If you just want to ignore me that's fine. You obviously have no obligation to respond if you don't want to. However, you have stated that you are going to respond--along with some semi-ominous qualifying statement.
I'm not going to stop playing Mafia--and I don't see you stopping either. So let's get everything out on the table.
That's fine. I can be patient. I just hope you understand how it's discourteous to provide some ominous hints about what you're going to say and then stall.Look silver. It's obvious you have something to say to me. Why not just say it? Why play games and try to draw this out further?
If you just want to ignore me that's fine. You obviously have no obligation to respond if you don't want to. However, you have stated that you are going to respond--along with some semi-ominous qualifying statement.
I'm not going to stop playing Mafia--and I don't see you stopping either. So let's get everything out on the table.
ahm, I didn't think one or two days mattered. and I'm certainly not doing it now, because I'll go to sleep in a few minutes. I'm not stalling for dramatic effect, I just didn't feel like answering it yet, and, as I sad, didn't think that a small delay would make any difference. I'll get to the answer. just wait, and then at some point, it'll be there.
Hey silver,
Just wanted to say I hope there's no hard feelings about this last game, now that we're both dead. At the time, I did feel that some of the statements you made were out of line, but time and distance help put them in perspective. At any rate, it should be a given that players are not attacking each other on a personal level--so posts should not be made or interpreted to that effect unless it is glaringly obvious that they are intended to offend.
I don't harbor any ill will against you, and I have confidence that we can get along well in future games.
-- That said, all players are required to treat each other in a civil manner. What does this mean? Your criticisms of other players should not rise to the level of personal attacks. At the same time, you should assume other players' criticisms of you are not intended as personal attacks. In practice, remember that it is just a game, and though a player may be lying to you and distorting every word you say, that player is not an evil person outside of the context of the game. By the same token, if someone accuses you of lying and distorting every word he says, you should not assume that that player is accusing you of being evil outside of the context of this game.
-- In this spirit, choose your words considerately. Strong language may be required to express strong arguments--and no one wants to limit the strategic landscape of the game by policing speech--but please be reasonable. Everyone who is a member of this community can provide examples of debates that were appropriately colorful and heated, as well as a few instances that went over the line. We don't want anyone to sour on playing games with us because the language and the tone became personal, offensive, aggressive, etc. Don't do that.
I guess I'll wait and see what others whom I find townier think. Letting silver get away with this is simply unbelievable. I'm sure you'll lynch him after my flip, but you'll be down town a strong town PR (admittedly less strong later in the game). Also, now that you've decided that either me or silver is scum, who do you think each of our partner's would be?
Oh man, suck it up. I made a strategic decision to fake a non-PR. This argument is not even good if you accept that it's policy. If you can't handle this kind of thing, don't play mafia.
I find the tone of this post unnecessarily hostile.
Considering that you lied, it's pretty obvious that you don't understand how that is a horrible thing to do as town. It doesn't matter that you think it worked out for you. I guessed correctly what you were doing right away, and if I was scum, I would have killed you N1.
if you think I'm scum, you can vote for me. but if I'm town, then I have kept a PR hidden until day3, and I've stopped possibly 3 of 4 kills. If you think that's a "horrible thing to do as town", then I can only repeat what I said in my last post. Ash said a similar thing, I gave him a similar response. I'm not being any more nice to you, and I don't know why you expected that.
Quote from: silverspawn link=topic=11779.msg4a31576#msg431576 date=1414011701QuoteCould you elaborate on the bolded part?it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.
What have I done that you dislike?
a lot. man, it starts with the fact that you're painting yourself as the innocent one, which, in my opinion, is just absurd after your discussion with ash. but it really wouldn't be a good idea if i list every reason now. I don't like you. it's best to leave it at that. I'm trying not to let that influence my vote.
You know what, it's so, so unfair to say that you don't like how I play and you don't like me, but you won't tell me why. I'm guilty for what? Quoting ash without keeping the whole quote in? Not being okay with him accusing me of personally attacking him?
phone posting. no one hammer right away please. I'll be home and at my computer within the hour.
EVERYONE CHILL OUT!
seriously, there has definitely been some stuff that I think violates civility--and not from Jimmmmm either. it looks like he and ash are good now, but now silver's starting in again.
it's OK not to try and have the last word guys.