Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Games => Hearthstone => Topic started by: ashersky on June 17, 2014, 07:21:43 pm
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I'm thinking for the first iteration, we keep it simple and learn from what doesn't work.
Option 1: Soulbound + Commons Only
Option 2:
How's this? All soulbound + commons and a dust budget of 600?
So possible addition of:
--1 Epic
--1 Epic, 2 Rares
--1-6 Rares
So it's still a basic deck tournament, but with the ability to add a few cards to augment your strategy. Plus, anyone who's opened 6 packs has 6 rares at least.
Option 3: Unlimited Constructed.
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As for games/matches -- a blend of Kirian's Gokodom and Stef's Dominion League makes sense to me.
How's 6 games per match, each player goes first 3 times. Conceding in friendlies doesn't hurt ranking.
Depending on the number of sign-ups, probably a head-to-head elimination (a la NCAA Basketball) makes the most sense?
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I want to be clear that I'm not trying to "dictate" anything, but I personally would prefer no deck construction limits. I know other people have voiced different opinions, I just wanted to throw my opinion out there -- no reason not to hear from as many preferences as possible.
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I want to be clear that I'm not trying to "dictate" anything, but I personally would prefer no deck construction limits. I know other people have voiced different opinions, I just wanted to throw my opinion out there -- no reason not to hear from as many preferences as possible.
Absolutely. I've seen everything from "no limit" to "only soulbound + commons." No way we'll have a setup that everyone is thrilled with.
Would you avoid a limited constructed format?
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I want to be clear that I'm not trying to "dictate" anything, but I personally would prefer no deck construction limits. I know other people have voiced different opinions, I just wanted to throw my opinion out there -- no reason not to hear from as many preferences as possible.
Although I am a lower-level player without even one Legend yet, I kind of agree with this statement. For one, it makes things simpler--and it also eliminates problems concerning people not following the rules. And it stays true to the normal Hearthstone system.
Just my 2 cents anyway, I'll be happy about this tournament either way.
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I'm thinking for the first iteration, we keep it simple and learn from what doesn't work.
How's this? All soulbound + commons and a dust budget of 400?
So possible addition of:
--1 Epic
--1 Epic, 2 Rares
--3 Rares
--4 Rares
So it's still a basic deck tournament, but with the ability to add a few cards to augment your strategy. Plus, anyone who's opened 4 packs has 4 rares at least.
1 epic and 2 rares is 600 dust.
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I'm thinking for the first iteration, we keep it simple and learn from what doesn't work.
How's this? All soulbound + commons and a dust budget of 400?
So possible addition of:
--1 Epic
--1 Epic, 2 Rares
--3 Rares
--4 Rares
So it's still a basic deck tournament, but with the ability to add a few cards to augment your strategy. Plus, anyone who's opened 4 packs has 4 rares at least.
1 epic and 2 rares is 600 dust.
Oh, right. Duh. So it could be a 600 dust limit, up to 6 rares.
I'll edit in options in the OP.
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Also, what about Old Murk-Eye (and Captain's Parrot), they are soulbond too.
As for me, as I've said before, I'm meh on the whole limit idea, but might play, whatever.
Edit: How many decks?
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I have little interest in a card-restricted format, similar to how I would have little interest in playing a basic-set-only Dominion tournament I suppose.
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I have little interest in a card-restricted format, similar to how I would have little interest in playing a basic-set-only Dominion tournament I suppose.
Not a good comparison..
I'm fine with anything. I have all the cards
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I have little interest in a card-restricted format, similar to how I would have little interest in playing a basic-set-only Dominion tournament I suppose.
Not a good comparison..
I'm fine with anything. I have all the cards
Just curious, but do you still play arena? I guess with all cards you don't have anything better to do with Gold.
I don't have any legendaries, but I'd still be okay with unlimited. Mostly, I'm not thrilled at the idea of having to count the dust cost of each non-soulbound card.
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I don't have any legendaries, but I'd still be okay with unlimited. Mostly, I'm not thrilled at the idea of having to count the dust cost of each non-soulbound card.
To clarify, you only have to count the dust of rares + epics. All soulbound/commons are free to use.
I guess Murk-eye and Parrot would be disallowed if we went with this version.
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Arena is fun. I don't literally have all the cards. I still lack the legendaries Millhouse, Onyxia, Nozdormu, and the Beast.
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Arena is fun. I don't literally have all the cards. I still lack the legendaries Millhouse, Onyxia, Nozdormu, and the Beast.
You have all the class legendaries? Did you craft or open most of them?
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My 2 cents: gimmick deck construction limits are better for short-running tournaments, and unlimited deck construction is better for long-running leagues. I'm more interested in the short tournaments but I'm up for either.
For the match format, please no trying to balance P1 vs P2, that was easily my least favourite thing about gokodom, and in hearthstone the P1 advantage is quite small (and I'd assume that certain decks have a P2 advantage, notably any rogue deck). I propose using these rules http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Innkeeper's_Invitational (http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Innkeeper's_Invitational), except allowing the winner to change their deck between games if they like but may not change class. (The reason is that you can't enforce using the same deck in an online tournament.)
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I think it's too complicated to have a dust limit. If we were to impose limits (which I'm in favor of, I think it adds flavor in a way different than base-only Dominion), I would prefer all-common or all-common + 1 rare etc.
I think there's an interesting puzzle to make good decks with constraints on them. It is kind of like how good board games restrict your choice in order to expand your options. Dominion doesn't have you play with every card simultaneously. You build your deck from a limited set of 10.
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I like the Innkeeper setup. That's easy.
How about the same, 5 matches, head to head, single elimination. 3 decks, same class, loser can change.
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3 decks different class sounds much better to me.
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I would prefer no restrictions, but can live with them. I would prefer 3 decks, different classes, winner have to keep, loser have to change format
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Remmber that card collections don't carry over from EU to America, unless that has been changed.
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Remmber that card collections don't carry over from EU to America, unless that has been changed.
Yeah, I thought that was the main reason behind a commons-only tournament.
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Remmber that card collections don't carry over from EU to America, unless that has been changed.
Yeah, I thought that was the main reason behind a commons-only tournament.
Good point. It's not that easy to make a collection of even commons when switching servers though. You're stuck with basic cards until you get a few packs, in which case the only thing that might make your deck decent is the couple of rares you find in the packs.
So then, it still makes sense to have a dust limit on rares and epics, because you get rares as you build up a collection of commons.
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If we're actually doing a small tournament, I'm voting for the restrictions (something like soulbound + commons + x rares)
But i'd still play if it were free for all. I'd just lose horribly :P
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If we're actually doing a small tournament, I'm voting for the restrictions (something like soulbound + commons + x rares)
But i'd still play if it were free for all. I'd just lose horribly :P
Yeah after playing with you, I agree with some sort of ristriction. But not soul bound only.
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If we're actually doing a small tournament, I'm voting for the restrictions (something like soulbound + commons + x rares)
But i'd still play if it were free for all. I'd just lose horribly :P
Yeah after playing with you, I agree with some sort of ristriction. But not soul bound only.
Right :P
I like the unlimited soul bounds+commons and additional X amount of dust in other cards. I don't think that's complicated if you don't count the dust in commons
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Commons + X dust sounds pretty zoo-favored, since they sometimes don't run epics or legendaries even in ideal versions.
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We should play DXV varietize. For match against two players, randomly pick 30 neutral commons/basics, and 10 class commons/basics per class. You take five minutes to build a deck of whichever class you fancy most, and choose which cards to include or exclude in your build, bo3.
It's a tad complicated, though. What is nice about it is that it balances out the warlock class the same way arena balances out the warlock class, it (somewhat) forces the warlock class to use its subpar class cards to balance out it's abovepar hero power.
Or we can just go with the whole basic common thing. Since the meta is expected to be aggro, we would probably get a little variety in the form of "beats aggro but loses to everything else" decks so it would be ok.
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I put together a little script to do roughly the thing that popsofctown is proposing. The idea is to simulate the same card availability that you'd see in arena, but present them all to you at once. Unlike actual arena, instead of 3 cards per turn, it's 2 cards per turn, to offset the advantage of selecting cards from a pool all at once. (There's a mathematical justification behind 2, but the real test is whether it feels balanced.) Right now, the class is randomly selected, but that could be changed. Example:
Class: Rogue
Commons (pick 25)
1 Conceal
1 Deadly Poison
1 Goldshire Footman
1 Grimscale Oracle
1 Leper Gnome
1 Leper Gnome
1 Shieldbearer
1 Sinister Strike
1 Voodoo Doctor
2 Acidic Swamp Ooze
2 Amani Berserker
2 Amani Berserker
2 Bloodsail Raider
2 Bluegill Warrior
2 Defias Ringleader
2 Defias Ringleader
2 Dire Wolf Alpha
2 Kobold Geomancer
2 Loot Hoarder
2 Novice Engineer
2 Shiv
3 Acolyte of Pain
3 Ironfur Grizzly
3 Magma Rager
3 Razorfen Hunter
3 Shattered Sun Cleric
3 Thrallmar Farseer
4 Ancient Brewmaster
4 Chillwind Yeti
4 Chillwind Yeti
4 Dark Iron Dwarf
4 Mogu'shan Warden
4 Mogu'shan Warden
4 Ogre Magi
4 Sen'jin Shieldmasta
4 Silvermoon Guardian
4 Silvermoon Guardian
5 Assassin's Blade
5 Assassin's Blade
5 Booty Bay Bodyguard
5 Silver Hand Knight
5 Spiteful Smith
6 Archmage
6 Frost Elemental
6 Lord of the Arena
6 Priestess of Elune
6 Reckless Rocketeer
6 Windfury Harpy
7 Core Hound
7 Stormwind Champion
Rares (pick 4)
1 Lightwarden
1 Secretkeeper
2 Knife Juggler
3 Imp Master
3 Questing Adventurer
3 SI:7 Agent
5 Stampeding Kodo
6 Argent Commander
Epics (pick 0)
Legendaries (pick 1)
5 Captain Greenskin
9 Ysera
The frequency of class cards feels a little low here because I don't give them special weighting, since I don't know how they are weighted in actual arena (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11326.msg405549#msg405549).
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That looks cool.
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Fixed to use more accurate probabilities. Here's a new example, and below I'll take my best guess at picks from it.
Class: Rogue
Common (pick 21)
0 Shadowstep
0 Shadowstep
1 Abusive Sergeant
1 Conceal
1 Shieldbearer
1 Southsea Deckhand
1 Young Dragonhawk
2 Betrayal
2 Defias Ringleader
2 Defias Ringleader
2 Dire Wolf Alpha
2 Dire Wolf Alpha
2 Eviscerate
2 Eviscerate
2 Faerie Dragon
2 Kobold Geomancer
2 Shiv
3 Dalaran Mage
3 Dalaran Mage
3 Earthen Ring Farseer
3 Fan of Knives
3 Flesheating Ghoul
3 Ironforge Rifleman
3 Shattered Sun Cleric
3 Silverback Patriarch
3 Tauren Warrior
3 Tauren Warrior
4 Chillwind Yeti
4 Cult Master
4 Dark Iron Dwarf
4 Dread Corsair
4 Dread Corsair
4 Stormwind Knight
5 Assassin's Blade
5 Spiteful Smith
5 Stormpike Commando
5 Stranglethorn Tiger
5 Stranglethorn Tiger
6 Frost Elemental
6 Lord of the Arena
7 War Golem
7 War Golem
Rare (pick 7)
1 Bloodsail Corsair
1 Lightwarden
1 Young Priestess
2 Ancient Watcher
2 Crazed Alchemist
2 Knife Juggler
2 Mana Addict
2 Mana Wraith
2 Mana Wraith
2 Pint-Sized Summoner
2 Sunfury Protector
4 Ancient Mage
4 Twilight Drake
4 Violet Teacher
Epic (pick 2)
2 Doomsayer
6 Kidnapper
6 Kidnapper
20 Molten Giant
Legendary (pick 0)
Example picks in the spoiler. Hard to know how to pick really given that the meta for this format is unknown.
Southsea Deckhand
Betrayal
Eviscerate x2
Shiv
Crazed Alchemist
Defias Ringleader x2
Faerie Dragon
Knife Juggler
Kobold Geomancer
Mana Wraith
Pint-Sized Summoner
Sunfury Protector
Fan of Knives
Earthen Ring Farseer
Flesheating Ghoul
Shattered Sun Cleric
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Dark Iron Dwarf
Twilight Drake
Violet Teacher
Assassin's Blade
Stranglethorn Tiger
Frost Elemental
Kidnapper
War Golem
Molten Giant
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I like the format
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I like the format
I like it too.
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I like the format
I like it too.
Me too too.
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Sounds like fun. How much dust will I need to save up though?