Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Other Games => Hearthstone => Topic started by: theory on June 17, 2014, 06:45:11 pm

Title: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 17, 2014, 06:45:11 pm
Share your bad beats and lucky breaks!

Here's my only 12-win deck.  I had a ridiculously good streak of opponents towards the end that helped me get to this :) http://arenamastery.com/jRfq
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 18, 2014, 01:01:41 pm
Here's (http://i.imgur.com/4XqSHyN.jpg) a 12-1 Paladin deck I drafted recently. I got insanely good cards overall, to the point where my fifth-worst card is probably something like Argent Squire or Hammer of Wrath.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 18, 2014, 01:17:04 pm
So in honor of RDU's win at Dreamhack, I drafted a Mage deck where, in the first game, after playing 0 cards in the first 3 turns, I made the following play:

Turn 8 Molten Giant, Defender of Argus
Turn 9 Archmage Antonidas, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Missiles

and won by concession two turns later.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on June 18, 2014, 02:58:47 pm
Just came back after taking a few months break.
It started badly with Warlock only getting 1 win, but quickly got better with an 8 win Shaman and my 2nd 12 wins, again with a paladin.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 18, 2014, 03:12:04 pm
My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 19, 2014, 10:31:53 am
Innervate out a Yeti, he Coins out a Emperor Cobra ...

RIP double-digit-win Druid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 19, 2014, 01:03:09 pm
My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
Why would you keep playing after two DCs? :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 19, 2014, 01:24:44 pm
My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
Why would you keep playing after two DCs? :P

They weren't in a row. I kept fiddling with my router when I DC'd to get it working again, my internet came back, and seemed stable after some internet surfing, and then BAM! DC'd again!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on June 19, 2014, 02:11:29 pm
A very disappointing 1-3 loss.  http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/539930374

Arena drafting starts at 42:30 and goes pretty slowly (but if you're a completionist, you can watch this)

Game 1...starts at 1:14:00...Lost to a Priest

Game 2...starts at 1:36:00...win against a Paladin

Game 3...starts at 1:55:30...lost to a Rogue

Game 4...starts at 2:10:00...Lost to a Paladin.

If clever people could isolate 1 play on each game, and tell me how I could do better on that single play....I imagine the accumlated advice will help me get better.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 19, 2014, 02:46:05 pm
Game 3: I would have tokened instead of dropping the Faerie.  They have the same net effect of removing the 2/1 except one costs you a minion/card in exchange for 2 life.  In general if you can take face damage, you should take face damage (unless they are "wasting" a lot of damage otherwise, i.e., killing an 8/1 with Argent Squire instead of your face).

I would have then coined out Gurubashi (which can kill Cult Master) or Druid of the Claw, but not Venture Co for the reasons you mentioned.  The Venture Co slows you down so much and you are racing hard against the Rogue.

Also Game 4, at 2:18, why not Azure -> Innervate -> Hero Power?? :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on June 19, 2014, 03:24:03 pm
A very disappointing 1-3 loss.  http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/539930374

Arena drafting starts at 42:30 and goes pretty slowly (but if you're a completionist, you can watch this)

Game 1...starts at 1:14:00...Lost to a Priest

Game 2...starts at 1:36:00...win against a Paladin

Game 3...starts at 1:55:30...lost to a Rogue

Game 4...starts at 2:10:00...Lost to a Paladin.

If clever people could isolate 1 play on each game, and tell me how I could do better on that single play....I imagine the accumlated advice will help me get better.

Game 1 was just Deathwing, not a whole lot you could have done.

Game 3, I agree with theory's analysis (but actually the Faerie dragon just saved you 1 life, not 2, since hero power also gives armor.
Also turn 3, you talked about using the coin. You should have done it. Essentially, it's buying you 2 mana here, since you're wasting 1 by not playing it. The extra 3/2 can go a long way to getting that early board control. In fact, it would have enabled you to just kill his Cult Master next turn.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on June 19, 2014, 03:32:45 pm
thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 19, 2014, 03:39:15 pm
Its partly my fault because he was asking what a good use for a coin is, and I said to bring minions out early. i saw Venture co. so I just said as an example a Venture co. turn 4.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on June 19, 2014, 03:46:21 pm
You should have won Game 4 but you make a couple of mistakes.
You forget about the second play of Noble Sacrifice, though you remembered for the first one, you should have hero power to trigger it. (and you would have won!)

I would have cleared the board on the first 10 mana turn as well- there is no point trying to save the Venture Co- it is negative value really, because it is increasing your cost. At that point you have card advantage so you want to clear his board and take the advantage and not bother trying to eek a little more value out of those cards. You actually do well in the next turn, but rather fortunately.
The innervated Ironbark isn't great because you know he has at least 7 damage out there, both 3 cost cards, so you will sacrifice the 8 cost for a 3cost (the Scarlet has shield).
Otherwise, there weren't any really bad plays from what I saw (I only watched that last game), so I'm sure you will improve quickly.

The innervated Turn 1 1-4 would have been a solid play imo btw, as you know it will take out the tokens, and worst case is a +2 buff on the worgen, in which case you can still take the board control.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 19, 2014, 03:50:10 pm
thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.

What helped me understand it was, imagine I had two separate pools of health.  In one pool, every time I take damage, I also lose some ability to damage.  In the other, nothing happens until I take 30 damage.  Framed this way, obviously I will always prefer to take damage in the latter unless it's grossly disproportionate.  And moreover, I try to find opportunities to take damage in my second pool to deal damage to his first pool.  It's like how you would rather trash your opponent's Gold in exchange for taking -1VP.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 19, 2014, 04:28:22 pm
thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.

What helped me understand it was, imagine I had two separate pools of health.  In one pool, every time I take damage, I also lose some ability to damage.  In the other, nothing happens until I take 30 damage.  Framed this way, obviously I will always prefer to take damage in the latter unless it's grossly disproportionate.  And moreover, I try to find opportunities to take damage in my second pool to deal damage to his first pool.  It's like how you would rather trash your opponent's Gold in exchange for taking -1VP.

At the same time it depends on what deck you're playing. I'l more careful playing against mages, especially when they haven't used things like fireballs yet since they can a put a lot of damage regardless of board condition.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on June 19, 2014, 05:49:27 pm
After a dire Priest performance I went Mage again, and am currently 3-0, now when I get a good deck I can normally cruise to 5-0, then it can be a bit dodgy as to if I keep making it to at least 8 (when I relax) and beyond, or collapse at 5/6/7.
Now I reckon this is pretty awesome, but then I have been wrong before, and it's too early to see from results- what do people think, predictions time!

2 Mirror Image, 1 Mana Wyrm, 2 Frostbolt, 1 Thalnos, 1 Doomsayer, 1 Faerie Dragon, 1 Owl, 1 Juggler, 1 Sorc Apprentice, 1 Youthful Brewmaster, 1 Arcane Intellect, 1 Spellbender, 1 Farseer, 1 Mind Control tech, 1 Razorfen Hunter, 3 (!) Fireball, 1 Poly, 1 Ogre Magi, 2 Water Ele, 1 Frostwolf Warlord, 1 Auctioneer, 1 Blizzard, 1 Argent Commander, 1 Flamestrike, 1 Champion.

Still haven't tried out any of the arena trackers, tempted by the automatic ones though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 19, 2014, 06:30:33 pm
After a dire Priest performance I went Mage again, and am currently 3-0, now when I get a good deck I can normally cruise to 5-0, then it can be a bit dodgy as to if I keep making it to at least 8 (when I relax) and beyond, or collapse at 5/6/7.
Now I reckon this is pretty awesome, but then I have been wrong before, and it's too early to see from results- what do people think, predictions time!

2 Mirror Image, 1 Mana Wyrm, 2 Frostbolt, 1 Thalnos, 1 Doomsayer, 1 Faerie Dragon, 1 Owl, 1 Juggler, 1 Sorc Apprentice, 1 Youthful Brewmaster, 1 Arcane Intellect, 1 Spellbender, 1 Farseer, 1 Mind Control tech, 1 Razorfen Hunter, 3 (!) Fireball, 1 Poly, 1 Ogre Magi, 2 Water Ele, 1 Frostwolf Warlord, 1 Auctioneer, 1 Blizzard, 1 Argent Commander, 1 Flamestrike, 1 Champion.

Still haven't tried out any of the arena trackers, tempted by the automatic ones though.

Seems like a great deck. Doomsayer is pretty terrible in arena though. Nearly anything is better. Even Hungry Crab, which I took once when i was offered Doomsayer, Crab and another terrible epic that I can't remember.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on June 19, 2014, 06:50:45 pm
^Doomsayer is better than Crab (and probably Mountain Giant, at least for Mage), imo. It at least usually trades with other 2-drops, though you have to take the face hit, and sometimes you get 2-for-1 out of it. Plus, since the board clears at the start of your turn, you get that tempo edge. And even if they manage to kill the Doomsayer, at least it soaked up 7 damage. You won't often get the huge clears you get in constructed Freeze Mage decks, but it's much more capable of trading than Crab is.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 19, 2014, 06:52:51 pm
^Doomsayer is better than Crab (and probably Mountain Giant, at least for Mage), imo. It at least usually trades with other 2-drops, though you have to take the face hit, and sometimes you get 2-for-1 out of it. Plus, since the board clears at the start of your turn, you get that tempo edge. And even if they manage to kill the Doomsayer, at least it soaked up 7 damage. You won't often get the huge clears you get in constructed Freeze Mage decks, but it's much more capable of trading than Crab is.

I suppose. Not sure I was playing mage when I took the crab, but yeah I guess its better than i give it credit for.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 20, 2014, 01:37:24 am
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store! 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on June 20, 2014, 04:37:01 am
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on June 20, 2014, 09:38:15 am
I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm (http://arenamastery.com/oXWm)

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 20, 2014, 09:45:44 am
I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm (http://arenamastery.com/oXWm)

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

Faceless the Deathwing, then Big Game Hunter to kill his Deathwing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 20, 2014, 10:00:45 am
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on June 20, 2014, 11:21:04 am
I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm (http://arenamastery.com/oXWm)

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

Faceless the Deathwing, then Big Game Hunter to kill his Deathwing.
I'm not saying the Faceless couldn't have been useful under different circumstances. The closest it got to doing something good was copying a 14/3 Gurubashi, but I was going to win anyway so I didn't end up doing it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 21, 2014, 12:20:07 am
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 21, 2014, 12:36:21 am
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG

I feel your pain. Then again, Warrior is one of the worst classes in arena. 8-3 is damn good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on June 21, 2014, 01:12:04 pm
After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run!  I've been savoring it by going slow, so it may be a bit before I finish.  I'd love feedback on my choices.  Any thoughts on what is making this work out so much better, and also what probably would have been even better.  Here's the arena: http://arenamastery.com/OMDf (http://arenamastery.com/OMDf)  I figure I'm already raising my average, so anything else is just gravy from here on out.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on June 21, 2014, 01:21:10 pm
So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG

I feel your pain. Then again, Warrior is one of the worst classes in arena. 8-3 is damn good.

Although Warrior lack a little powerful class minions, weapons are great in arena, and the chance to draft 2 or 3 Flaming War Axe alone makes Warrior one of my favourite arena picks, probably only below Paladin and of course, Mage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on June 21, 2014, 01:32:09 pm
After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run!  I've been savoring it by going slow, so it may be a bit before I finish.  I'd love feedback on my choices.  Any thoughts on what is making this work out so much better, and also what probably would have been even better.  Here's the arena: http://arenamastery.com/OMDf (http://arenamastery.com/OMDf)  I figure I'm already raising my average, so anything else is just gravy from here on out.

It's a pretty solid draft- there are a good number of 2 drops and spells to give you early game aggression, that many players may not be able to survive. However there are maybe a couple too many 5s and not really any really big end game minions, so you will suffer a bit if you start getting to turn 10 later on more often. Gurubashi can often suffice though as an effective 7 drop 5-6
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on June 21, 2014, 03:32:58 pm
It's a pretty solid draft- there are a good number of 2 drops and spells to give you early game aggression, that many players may not be able to survive. However there are maybe a couple too many 5s and not really any really big end game minions, so you will suffer a bit if you start getting to turn 10 later on more often. Gurubashi can often suffice though as an effective 7 drop 5-6

Yeah.  I wasn't offered much on the top end at all.  I passed up a Venture Co (for Flamestrike) and a few other core hounds, and that's it.  And you have hit exactly my reason for taking a second gurubashi so late.  In any case, so far I think double fireball has ended all my matches.  I've been guarding them zealously to make up for my lack of late game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 22, 2014, 05:36:36 pm
Just went 12-2 with a Paladin deck with 0 Consecrations  :D

MVP was probably Aldor Peacekeeper - got a clutch 50% probability Peacekeeper > Stampeding Kodo on an Earth Elemental which basically won the game, then hit two Venture Co.s in later games. Got pretty good value out of two Earthen Ring Farseers, too, healing big guys after killing Sen'jins and such.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on June 22, 2014, 06:06:08 pm
Drafted a really interesting control Paladin. It doesn't have the best early game, but it does have

1x Wild Pyromancer
1x Equality
2x Hammer of Wrath
2x Consecration
1x Truesilver

with Venture Co, Stormwind Champion, and Guardian of Kings as my "finishers". It has a surprising amount of card draw in it - I just played against a Mage who triggered Acolyte of Pains 5 times, and was still only one card behind him when we got into fatigue.

The downside is that all my games take much longer, meaning I have a lot more chances to misplay. So far, it's 4-1, but it should be very good if I can dodge all the aggro decks. Oddly enough, my 1x Holy Wrath has been MVP so far, has done 5 damage every time I've played it so far.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on June 22, 2014, 11:02:41 pm
http://imgur.com/n47PKtY

I did this a while ago in arena.. it was fun!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on June 23, 2014, 01:12:05 am
And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on June 23, 2014, 07:53:06 am
And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.

Not nearly as annoying as turn 2 Mad Bomber that kills your 2 drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 23, 2014, 08:32:33 am
Especially when that 2 drop was your own Mad Bomber aka 2-mana Flame Imp
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on June 23, 2014, 08:58:23 am
And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.

Obviously you counter this by not playing a 2-drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on June 24, 2014, 03:37:30 pm
I just went 6-3 with this Warlock deck:
http://arenamastery.com/vrNi (http://arenamastery.com/vrNi)

It was about to get my 7th win, but I made a stupid misclick and played my Venture Co. before my Worgen Infiltrator and that made the Infiltrator too expensive to play with the Demonfire I needed to play too. My Rogue opponent beat we with 1 health remaining, which I could have taken away had the Infiltrator been on the fielf. Argh!

Still, not bad for Warlock. The other choices for heroes were Priest and Hunter.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on June 24, 2014, 04:09:41 pm
I just went 6-3 with this Warlock deck:
http://arenamastery.com/vrNi (http://arenamastery.com/vrNi)

It was about to get my 7th win, but I made a stupid misclick and played my Venture Co. before my Worgen Infiltrator and that made the Infiltrator too expensive to play with the Demonfire I needed to play too. My Rogue opponent beat we with 1 health remaining, which I could have taken away had the Infiltrator been on the fielf. Argh!

Still, not bad for Warlock. The other choices for heroes were Priest and Hunter.

I actually think Priest isn't a bad arena class, despite its low win rate %. The problem is that you're at the mercy of your draft - a middling/mediocre Priest is much worse than a mediocre Mage/Paladin. However, there are a lot of good Priest rares (Shadow Madness, Auchenai, Holy Fire) that can completely take over a game.

The way I see it is that Priest decks are either amazing 9+ win monsters that get control early and never let it go, or bad ~3 win decks that don't have enough Novas for aggro or ways to actually kill Yetis and Dark Iron Dwarfs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on June 24, 2014, 04:42:33 pm
^You can say the same about Warlock and Hunter. That's why those are the worst 3 classes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on June 25, 2014, 12:06:23 pm
After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run! 

Still going!  I'm up to 8-2 now.  Both losses were to rogues.  In general I seem to struggle against them.  In both games I got destroyed early by backstabs, and since I have no late game, it was game over.

On the other hand, I had my luckiest win ever: Against a druid, I got done to 1 health with an empty board while I was topdecking.  My opponent was still in the 20's.  Drew Arcane Intellect, which drew Arcane Intellect and something, which drew silverback patriarch.   Opp hit the silverback for 1.  Gradually I pulled back even on the board, as he gradually whittled down the patriarch.  I was helped by a water elemental to slow things down.  Finally got a Fen Creeper as my second to last card, sent everything to face.    He couldn't empty my board, and conceded before what was necessarily my last turn (since fatigue would kill me on the next).  Thrilling!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on June 27, 2014, 05:53:04 pm
I just got a double legendary. Picked Cenarius twice. Should be fun :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Lekkit on June 28, 2014, 05:19:50 am
In my first arena I got to pick two Leeroys. Can't really remember anything else about that draft, though. I think I went something like 4-3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on June 30, 2014, 12:37:44 am
Paladin vs Paladin

I go second.

T1: Pass
T1: Voodoo Doctor
T2: Make 1/1
T2: Coin, Tauren Warrior. Hit for 2.
T3: Argent Protector. Pass
T3: Blood Knight. Trade 2/1 for Argent, kill 1/1 with Tauren to trigger enrage. (So now I have a 6/6 and a 5/2 taunt on turn 3)
T4: Oasis Snapjaw
T4: SSC on Tauren Warrior (now Snapjaw can't kill alone), send both to face. Opp at 16.
T5: Truesilver, kill Tauren, Snapjaw kills SSC. Opp at 12.
T5: Harvest Golem + Croc, hit face, opp at 6.
Resign

I felt awful for my opponent, as soon as I could stop laughing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 30, 2014, 09:18:59 am
Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on June 30, 2014, 06:22:51 pm
Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.

Grats!  I was online and got a popup telling me you had just finished this run.

Nice rewards?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on June 30, 2014, 06:38:44 pm
Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.

Grats!  I was online and got a popup telling me you had just finished this run.

Nice rewards?

In the video you can actually see yourself sign off and on ;-)

Pretty good rewards.  Nothing super memorable though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 01, 2014, 03:35:14 am
Some dude just played Scarlet Crusader into my Mirror Entity, then played Blood Knight. I literally cried.

Guess it made up for me Polymorphing his Tirion Fordring on the previous turn.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Lekkit on July 01, 2014, 03:43:55 am
I still think you came out on top of that exchange.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 01, 2014, 04:47:54 am
What the hell

This was the most ridiculous 2-3 arena ever

Loss 1 had the aforementioned Scarlet Crusader + Mirror Entity + Blood Knight play, and the dude's deck also had a load of expensive minions (Tirion, Booty Bay Bodyguard, Lord of the Arena, Guardian of Kings, Frostwolf Warlord) with which he just steamrolled me lategame.

Loss 2, I had lethal and had Cone of Colded most of his board, but he killed me with a leftover Stranglethorn Tiger + Claw + double Savage Roar for 20 damage and the win.

Loss 3, I'm up 30 health to 6, with a 9/9 Questing Adventurer and three other minions out. He has a Doomhammer and no minions. He drops Deathwing, I panic slightly but drop Mind Control Tech + Venture Co. and still have lethal. He topdecks Feral Spirit and hits my face for 16, I can't do anything with the 5 cards in my hand and he hits me for 16 again the next turn.

man
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 01, 2014, 11:41:28 am
Deathwing is just not possible to predict. If you have a response he's screwed, if not you're screwed.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 01, 2014, 01:00:09 pm
Tuesday morning Arena.  Here are my games, if you've got some time and feel like sharing advice:

Game 1: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574396
Game 2: win vs Shaman http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574478
game 3: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574545
game 4: win by AFK...ain't nobody want to watch that
game 5: loss vs Mage http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574585

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 01, 2014, 01:39:34 pm
Deathwing is just not possible to predict. If you have a response he's screwed, if not you're screwed.

The thing is, reasonably often you don't have removal, but the answer is to race it. But then when you lose to their topdeck, it's upsetting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on July 01, 2014, 01:49:54 pm
Game 5:

I would have Argused for sure.  You are right that you can just silence him later.  It's suboptimal to Argus the SC because the +1/+1 doesn't really matter (he's going to ping off the shield anyway), but it's preferable to playing into a bad trade (his 3/2 into your 4/3).

"Keeping the Divine Shield up for as long as I can" ... not good practice anyway and definitely not against a Mage.

On Turn 7, you point out that he has flamestrike but still play into it.  Sunwalker is much preferable.

After Argusing the Acolyte you pointed out your own mistake with the trade.  Don't let him ping if you can help it.  You were fine with the 3/2 potentially attacking your Acolyte, in fact that's even preferable.  I guess he might SSC or Argus it into your Acolyte which would be bad.

OMGGGGGGGGG why no frothing berserker!!! :( :( :(  He's played one flamestrike already, whatever, maybe you don't Faceless it.  But certainly don't Faceless a 4-mana creature!!!!!!!  That was the best possible situation for a Frothing (multiple trades happening AND he's still protected by a taunt).

Too conservative with Commanding Shout.  You'll never get much more value out of it at that stage of the game.  The later it goes the worse it is.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 01, 2014, 02:54:39 pm
Game 1: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574396
game 3: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574545

Game 1 turn 7, 2/3 vs 7/3 taunt:
You should Faceless then Slam. You just Slammed hoping to draw something. It looked like you realized it later (I watched without sound), but at that point, it's still probably worth playing the Faceless. you have plenty of cards but are short on life. there's a good chance you won't get to use the card anyway, so don't worry about wasting it. Wasting the tempo (5 mana to just armor up) is worse. The alternative (weaker but still better than what you did) is to play Battle Rage to draw a card. Again you're not getting great value from the card, but you're not worried about that kind of value at this point, you'd rather just get another card instead.

Game 3 I didn't see anything really wrong. Just got Rogued there...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 01, 2014, 11:15:13 pm
Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on July 02, 2014, 12:01:23 am
Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 02, 2014, 12:10:38 am
Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?

It goes up in order to force the game to end. Otherwise Priest, Warrior and Druid could outlast some opponents.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 02, 2014, 12:39:24 am
Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?
Yep, the damage taken increases by 1 each time you try to draw a card from the empty deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 08, 2014, 10:21:02 am
Tuesday morning Arena....warlock this time.  Sound quality was terrible, so I decided not to break it out into highlights.  My apologies for that (http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/545612956)

Game 1: win vs Mage; starts at 3:03, goes long
Game 2: loss vs Mage; starts at 21:44, ends at 30:50
game 3: loss vs Rogue; starts at 32:05, ends at 39:29
game 4: win vs Mage; starts at 40:25, ends at 47:45
game 5: win vs Mage; starts at 50:05, ends at 1:02:00
Game 6: loss vs Paladin; starts at 1:04:00, ends at 1:17:02
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 08, 2014, 11:16:34 am
Wow, lots of mages! I'm on my phone, but what was your deck like? Minion spam?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 08, 2014, 12:37:17 pm
i have no idea; my deck felt pretty crappy.  Lots of stealth minions, surprisingly.  Only 1 taunt (Mogushan).

Here are my picks: http://arenamastery.com/O4bh
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 08, 2014, 03:32:46 pm
I don't have time to watch the games, but here's my thoughts on your draft.

First off, warlock can play in a couple of different ways:
1. Super low curve, using hero power to avoid empty hand
2. Very controlly, trying to mostly trade 1-for-1 with everything, and winning on card advantage in the late turns when your opponent runs out of cards but you can still tap

The tough part about drafting Warlock is that since you can't see what you're going to be offered, it's hard to know which way to lean with your picks. This makes Warlock one of the weaker arena classes despite having the best hero power in the game.

If you're trying to get a 12 win run, maybe you want to just go with (1) and hope you get offered the cards for it, but if you're trying to be a little more consistent at getting 7, you should just pick higher quality cards and re-evaluate your position halfway through the draft to see if you can skew one way or the other.

Specific picks:
2. guru berzerker > voodoo doc. is this because you're trying to do low curve? this is not unreasonable since berzerker isn't that great of a card, but voodoo doc is pretty bad..
6. demonfire or frost would > rocketeer. even if you want to be aggressive, this is too much of a sacrifice of quality. demonfire is fine for tempo as it trades with a 3/2.
7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
9. farseer >> drain life. same mana cost, one does smite and heals less, while the other is a 3/3 and heals more (and isn't restriced to healing your hero). not sure what the justification for picking drain life could be...
13. senjin > shadow bolt >> blood imp. blood imp is a pretty useless card. it can't kill anything and can only hope to meaningfully buff something. sen'jin is one of the best cards you can get in arena.
15. mechanic / power overwhelming > novice. you don't need card draw. your hero power does that. this is essentially wisp + hero power
26. rocketeer > warden. warden is pretty terrible. it's essentially a 4-mana weaker version of frost nova.
29. voidwalker / healer > succubus. there are too many 3/2s that trade up with succubus for it to be worth 2 cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 08, 2014, 03:52:06 pm
i have no idea; my deck felt pretty crappy.  Lots of stealth minions, surprisingly.  Only 1 taunt (Mogushan).

Here are my picks: http://arenamastery.com/O4bh

On my phone, so it's hard to see well. But 100% not rocketeer. Demon fire sure there. I'll look at the rest when I get home to a computer.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 08, 2014, 05:12:23 pm
7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
I know you're suggesting this based off curve, but the quality difference is so huge here. Ancient Brew is IMO one of the weaker good cards due to only having 4 health, which is pretty easy to trade with (frostbolt ping, raptor ping, etc.). Meanwhile Silver Hand Knight is just ridiculously good, pretty often going 2-for-1. Its only big weakness is Flamestrike.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 08, 2014, 06:08:18 pm
7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
I know you're suggesting this based off curve, but the quality difference is so huge here. Ancient Brew is IMO one of the weaker good cards due to only having 4 health, which is pretty easy to trade with (frostbolt ping, raptor ping, etc.). Meanwhile Silver Hand Knight is just ridiculously good, pretty often going 2-for-1. Its only big weakness is Flamestrike.

Silver Hand Knight also only has 4 health...

This is probably a whole separate discussion, but I think Silver Hand Knight is super overrated in general. I don't think it goes 2-for-1 all that often. At turn 5 or later, the 2/2 isn't doing much a lot of the time, and the 4/4 dies to everything that Brewmaster dies to, and doesn't even killing the Yeti/Tiger/Warlord in return. You're much more likely to get a 2-for-1 out of other 5-drops like Commando or Smith. Anyway, you don't want so many 5s, and Merc/Tiger/Warlord are all pretty clearly better imo. How good is the 4th best 5-drop -- especially if it's not so much better than the next 3 (Smith, Creeper, Commando)? It can't be *that* much better than a 4-drop that trades with Yetis and kills Sen'jins.

EDIT: I try to keep an updated list of my overall arena card rankings, and plan to at some point post them here or something if people care. I currently have Silver Hand at 26 and Ancient Brewmaster at 30, both slightly worse than Raptor (25).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 08, 2014, 07:37:18 pm
The knight has 6 health, yes, but you get a total of 6 health between the two minions. (Not that it matters vs Flamestrike.) Maybe it's too bold to claim it often goes 2-for-1, but 1.5-for-1, sure, because it'll typically take a card to kill the knight, and then the squire is still hanging around to do stuff. A free 2/2 is nothing to sneeze at, even on turn 5.

It seems clearly better to me than Warlord, which to get 6/6 of stats out of you need two minions in play, which is a bit of a "win more" situation, whereas Knight remains a good play when your board is empty. Smith is better for weapon classes of course (especially Rogue), but for other classes it's debatable, because of Smith's weakness to Fireball.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 08, 2014, 08:06:59 pm
You don't need to make the Warlord a 6/6. 5/5 on one minion is better than 4/4 + 2/2, imo. You can't look at the total stats of a token minion. It simply doesn't work that way. You can kill the Silver Hand Knight in pieces without actually losing anything if you have a 4/5 and a 2/3, for example. But you'd have to trade them for the 5/5. In this sense it plays more like a 4/6 than a 6/6. Further, to remove the 5 damage threat, you need to deal the full 5 damage, while you can reduce the damage of the token combo by killing either part. For the most part, the token is really inconsequential. You're not losing any sleep over leaving a 2/2 on the board, but if you have to leave a 5/1, you're a little more scared.

Token minions are good when your opponent's board is clear. It's hard to remove 2 things with just that much mana out of hand. Usually you'll at least have the token left, and if you can buff it, you're solid. But if there is anything on your opponent's board, they will often be able to find a favorable trade.

Yes Silver Hand Knight is still better than Warlord in the worst case, since it always at least gets the token, but it's never great, and Warlord can be. If you make it a 6/6 or a 7/7, even by playing multiple cards on a late turn, it can be a game-winner.  On my expensive cards, I'm willing to take that tradeoff. On later turns with more mana available you often have choices to play something else, so you're able to avoid the worst case a little more often than with the cheaper (2-4 mana) cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 08, 2014, 08:12:38 pm
I agree with HME.  Warlord is very, very good and Silver Hand Knight is simply good.  In fact, I'm surprised that he only seems to rate it just below a raptor... I think raptor is better than a silver hand knight by a decent margin.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 08, 2014, 08:42:44 pm
You don't need to make the Warlord a 6/6. 5/5 on one minion is better than 4/4 + 2/2, imo. You can't look at the total stats of a token minion. It simply doesn't work that way. You can kill the Silver Hand Knight in pieces without actually losing anything if you have a 4/5 and a 2/3, for example. But you'd have to trade them for the 5/5. In this sense it plays more like a 4/6 than a 6/6. Further, to remove the 5 damage threat, you need to deal the full 5 damage, while you can reduce the damage of the token combo by killing either part. For the most part, the token is really inconsequential. You're not losing any sleep over leaving a 2/2 on the board, but if you have to leave a 5/1, you're a little more scared.
I agree that 4/4+2/2 is worse overall than 6/6 (although sometimes it can be better), but I'm sure it's better than 5/5. For example, a 5/5 trades with yeti+ping, whereas 4/4+ping kills a yeti and leaves behind the 2/2 squire. Given the strength of ping classes in arena (rogue, mage), 1 health differences are not that important, but 2 health differences are big, so the 2/2 is awkward to kill unless you have a big minion available to smack it, in which case it absorbs some overkill (unless the big minion is a turtle).

Maybe I just overemphasize board clearing, but I really don't like to leave small minions on my opponent's board, because they help out dwarf, argus, warlord, etc. That's why I rate SHK highly, because it's awkward to clear it from the board. Maybe that's also why I don't think much of Frostwolf Warlord: if I'm keeping my opponent's board clear, then I'm not scared of it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 09, 2014, 01:57:16 am
I have gotten lethal from Thoughtsteal 3 games in my current arena run.

1. Steal Windfury + Wolfrider. Use Windfury on my 7/7 Temple Enforcer (buffed by Argus), 14 + 2 from Argus + 3 from Wolfrider gives me exactly lethal.
2. Steal Doomguard, use it to beat a surprisingly good aggro Warlock deck. If I hadn't drawn my 1x Wild Pyro to clear the board, I would have lost.
3. Steal 2 Lightning Bolts. One gets used to clear, the second combines with a Holy Smite to do exactly lethal.

It's great. I don't have any AoE besides my Pyromancer, but have Argus, 3 Temple Enforcers, SSC, and mostly token minions/stealths as my neutrals, meaning I almost always have a buff target.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 09, 2014, 10:59:27 am
I agree that 4/4+2/2 is worse overall than 6/6 (although sometimes it can be better), but I'm sure it's better than 5/5.
SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't. The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces. The comparison to 5/5 is much closer. I can imagine a world in which 4/4+2/2 is better than 5/5, but in the current set of cards and metagame, 5/5 is the winner. The main reason is that there are way more things that deal 4 damage than 5. In fact, there are only 2-3 neutral commons that can kill a 5/5 and live (Ogre, War Golem, bigger Warlord). Additionally, a couple of the more powerful cards have exactly 5 health (Yeti, Sen'jin), so trading favorably with those is a big deal.

Quote
For example, a 5/5 trades with yeti+ping, whereas 4/4+ping kills a yeti and leaves behind the 2/2 squire. Given the strength of ping classes in arena (rogue, mage), 1 health differences are not that important, but 2 health differences are big, so the 2/2 is awkward to kill unless you have a big minion available to smack it, in which case it absorbs some overkill (unless the big minion is a turtle).
I think you're neglecting to consider the cost of the ping. If my Warlord trades with Yeti+ping, that's a win. Versus Mage, its a net gain of 1 mana (I spent 5 to his 6), vs Rogue it's about mana neutral but costs him 5 health, and vs Druid its +1 mana +4 life. And this is a below average outcome for the Warlord. If your opponent doesn't have a ping, you're getting greater value.
SHK + Mage ping vs Yeti is net -3 mana to get a 2/2. This is reasonably even. If the 2/2 sticks and gets buffed, it's a win, but if it just dies, it's a loss. And if you're not Mage, it's not even this good.
So I'd say overall, a 5/5 handles Yeti much better than SHK.

Quote
Maybe I just overemphasize board clearing, but I really don't like to leave small minions on my opponent's board, because they help out dwarf, argus, warlord, etc. That's why I rate SHK highly, because it's awkward to clear it from the board. Maybe that's also why I don't think much of Frostwolf Warlord: if I'm keeping my opponent's board clear, then I'm not scared of it.
If I have to choose between a 5-drop that helps maintain a board advantage from a good position and a 5-drop that can close out games from a good position, I'm going for the closer. You need some of those in arena. Your lower cost cards should be doing the job of establishing and maintaining board control.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on July 09, 2014, 11:45:23 am
Oh, you guys are talking about Flamestruck Hand Knight in here?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 09, 2014, 12:44:42 pm
Oh, you guys are talking about Flamestruck Hand Knight in here?

It's SHK vs warlord.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 09, 2014, 12:45:49 pm
SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't.
I don't think this is a fair comparison, because the primary reason that Dragonling Mechanic is bad is that the 2/1 dies to ping, and the 2/4 left behind is not exciting on its own. Otherwise, while still not as good as Yeti, it'd be somewhere between a 4/4 and 4/5 in strength, I think: consider if the stats were distributed 2/3+2/2.

Quote
The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces.
But isn't this mainly a problem because of ping? e.g. If the 2/2 eats a Frostbolt/Backstab, I am happy with that. SHK is in an unusual category because most of the other split minions have one (or both) parts as a x/1: Murloc Tidehunter, Razorfen Hunter, Dragonling Mechanic. (Razorfen Hunter is not as bad as the rest because at least ping is only killing a 1/1, which is OK.) On the other hand, Feral Spirit gives you 2/3+2/3 and is strong, which granted is largely because they come on turn 3, so it's not directly comparable.

Quote
The comparison to 5/5 is much closer. I can imagine a world in which 4/4+2/2 is better than 5/5, but in the current set of cards and metagame, 5/5 is the winner. The main reason is that there are way more things that deal 4 damage than 5. In fact, there are only 2-3 neutral commons that can kill a 5/5 and live (Ogre, War Golem, bigger Warlord). Additionally, a couple of the more powerful cards have exactly 5 health (Yeti, Sen'jin), so trading favorably with those is a big deal.
I'm with you that 5 health is a lot better than 4. That's why Ancient Brewmaster is so much worse than Yeti/Sen'jin. But a 2/2 is also way stronger than a 2/1.

Quote
I think you're neglecting to consider the cost of the ping. If my Warlord trades with Yeti+ping, that's a win. Versus Mage, its a net gain of 1 mana (I spent 5 to his 6), vs Rogue it's about mana neutral but costs him 5 health, and vs Druid its +1 mana +4 life. And this is a below average outcome for the Warlord. If your opponent doesn't have a ping, you're getting greater value.
SHK + Mage ping vs Yeti is net -3 mana to get a 2/2. This is reasonably even. If the 2/2 sticks and gets buffed, it's a win, but if it just dies, it's a loss. And if you're not Mage, it's not even this good.
So I'd say overall, a 5/5 handles Yeti much better than SHK.
3 mana to get a 2/2 without spending a card seems excellent to me. Imagine if the Paladin hero power were that instead of 2 mana for a 1/1... yikes. And this is vs Yeti, which is the best arena neutral common. The 2/2 may not always be useful, but it gives you options and board presence, which is always nice.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 09, 2014, 03:06:57 pm
SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't.
I don't think this is a fair comparison, because the primary reason that Dragonling Mechanic is bad is that the 2/1 dies to ping, and the 2/4 left behind is not exciting on its own. Otherwise, while still not as good as Yeti, it'd be somewhere between a 4/4 and 4/5 in strength, I think: consider if the stats were distributed 2/3+2/2.
There are a lot of bad things about Mechanic, and ping is only one of them. Actually, if you force your opponent to ping the 2/1 on turn 4 instead of playing a 4-drop, that's not bad. You got a 2/4 for 2 mana and 1 card, which trades favorably with a 3/2. The problem occurs when your opponent plays a Yeti. Then your Mechanic just 0-for-1s.

Quote
Quote
The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces.
But isn't this mainly a problem because of ping? e.g. If the 2/2 eats a Frostbolt/Backstab, I am happy with that. SHK is in an unusual category because most of the other split minions have one (or both) parts as a x/1: Murloc Tidehunter, Razorfen Hunter, Dragonling Mechanic. (Razorfen Hunter is not as bad as the rest because at least ping is only killing a 1/1, which is OK.) On the other hand, Feral Spirit gives you 2/3+2/3 and is strong, which granted is largely because they come on turn 3, so it's not directly comparable.
No, it's a problem because it can be removed by minions without killing them, and because the big part can be taken out leaving the small piece to be dealt with later. Even without a ping, a Yeti kills the 2/4, leaving 4/3 vs 2/1.

Any 4 damage removal (or worse yet a Yeti) + a 2/3 or better beats SHK. If you trade for 2 cards, you're happy, but a lot of times you just get 1 card and life gain (minion hits 2/2 instead of your face). Don't get me wrong, this is good, but it's not even close to what a 6/6 or 5/6 would do. Those things are real threats to just win the game if you can't produce 6 damage asap.

Razorfen benefits from the fact that hero power on turn 3 effectively costs 3 mana, and if you don't ping the boar, it trades with nearly any 3-drop. Feral Spirit is good because of the overload, not the stats. 4/6 taunt (DotC) is way better than Feral Spirit, even though you have to pay all the mana up front.

Quote
I'm with you that 5 health is a lot better than 4. That's why Ancient Brewmaster is so much worse than Yeti/Sen'jin. But a 2/2 is also way stronger than a 2/1.
Not sure what you're getting at. There are no 2/1s involved in this scenario. If you can only deal 4 damage, the 5/5 leaves a 5/1, which is much better than 2/1, and is better than a 2/2 if you don't have the spare mana or ability to ping it down.

Quote
3 mana to get a 2/2 without spending a card seems excellent to me. Imagine if the Paladin hero power were that instead of 2 mana for a 1/1... yikes. And this is vs Yeti, which is the best arena neutral common. The 2/2 may not always be useful, but it gives you options and board presence, which is always nice.
It's not "excellent". It's okay. If it were a hero power it would be excellent because then you could use it whenever you want. If it were a card, it would be decent, like halfway between Engineer and Inventor. But if it's a result of some exchange, it's less useful than as a card, because you don't get it at your convenience. The whole scenario depends on what your opponent is doing with the rest of the mana.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 09, 2014, 10:14:48 pm
There are a lot of bad things about Mechanic, and ping is only one of them. Actually, if you force your opponent to ping the 2/1 on turn 4 instead of playing a 4-drop, that's not bad. You got a 2/4 for 2 mana and 1 card, which trades favorably with a 3/2. The problem occurs when your opponent plays a Yeti. Then your Mechanic just 0-for-1s.
That's true, but the ping is not really forced, since they have the option of not pinging if they have some better play. If they happen to have an otherwise-bad hand, like say their only <=4 mana minion is a river croc, then they may be quite happy to have the ping option.

I agree that Yeti is a bad situation, but Yeti is the best arena neutral, so there are a lot of cards that have a rough time against it. This analysis is making me think that I might underrate Dragonling Mechanic.

We may just need to agree to disagree on the strength of SHK since I think the only way to resolve the question for sure is with a lot of statistics or even some A-B experiments. I'll keep an eye on my future games with SHK/FW to see which looks better in the situation.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 09, 2014, 11:33:33 pm
I'm happy to disagree. Having to make these arguments really helps me think about the cards, and having the discussion on the forum helps others think about it as well. That's why I kind of want to post my full list. I'm sure you'll find other things you disagree with. The tough things to value are 5 drops, 1 drops, tokens, taunt, silence, cantrips, and 2/3s.

One more comment about dragonling mechanic: it's usually fine on turn 4, only losing badly to a couple things, but it gets much worse later in the game. Razorfen hunter faces a similar issue, as does silver hand knight, to a somewhat lesser extent.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 10, 2014, 02:01:28 am
Got a lucky draft to go 11-3, and although I didn't have a SHK in my deck, I had it played against me 4 times, and except for the 2nd time (when I didn't think to do it), took a screenshot to analyze later.

1st time: With 7 mana, he played a Naturalize (score was 1-0) on my Baron Geddon and a SHK on an empty board. With only 4 other cards in hand, it's unlikely that he had another 5 mana minion option, so Warlord here would have been a 4/4, strictly worse. I have a Flamestrike in hand, but I'd rather not go 1-for-1 with Flamestrike, though here I use it because there's no better option. I have a Fireball, but no <=4 mana minion except a Faerie Dragon, which would get killed by his 2/2, allowing his SHK to go 2-for-1.

(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11326.0;attach=1848)

2nd time: Didn't get a screenshot. At the time, I recall thinking that SHK seemed slightly better than Warlord would have been, but I don't remember the situation, although I believe the Warlord would have been 5/5.

3rd time: He has a Violet Teacher out already and plays SHK on turn 5. I have a Flamestrike in hand, but with only 6 mana, I can't play it and am facing down a total of 9 damage from his board, and at 21 life, that's scary. A 5/5 Warlord would also have been good, threatening 8 damage, but then my Cobra would have been a less bad play (since in this situation he can kill it with 2/2+ping). On the other hand, I believe I went for a YOLO missiles play which hit his face once, the teacher once, and the 2/2 once, so I cleared the teacher and 2/2 with bluegill and fireblast. Certainly warlord would have been less susceptible to the missile play, so it may have an edge here.

(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11326.0;attach=1849)

4th time: He plays SHK on turn 5 with his board empty. Playing SHK is strictly better than Warlord here, although he had enough other cards that he may have been able to hold back Warlord and make some other play. I have a decent response, killing the 2/2 with my Kodo, pinging his knight, and playing cobra, expecting that if something goes horribly wrong then I can Flamestrike next turn. Without the 2/2 present, though, I would be able to clear his board and put down a cobra.

(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11326.0;attach=1850)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 10, 2014, 02:43:34 am
So I play Noble Sacrifice on turn 1.

My opponent responds with Wisp + Dust Devil. Who does that??

And then the next turn he attacks with the Dust Devil first.

And then I somehow lost the game anyway.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 10, 2014, 03:31:57 am
For what it's worth, Noble Sacrifice is rarely a good turn 1 play. You typically want to save it until you can play it in a way that protects an important minion or is likely to trade with something having 2 health. If you play it on turn 1, there are too many ways that your opponent can trigger it without losing anything important. For example, since you were up against a Shaman, if he summons a totem and it's a Searing Totem, then when he attacks with the totem next turn, it'll trade with the Defender without any need to spend a card, and at just 1 mana more (since the totem cost 2 mana and the secret cost 1).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on July 10, 2014, 09:50:54 am
Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 10, 2014, 10:52:45 am
<examples of SHK being played>

The thing you have to watch out with with this, is that if you only look at situations where SHK is being played, it's going to be biased towards it being good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 10, 2014, 02:04:47 pm
<examples of SHK being played>

The thing you have to watch out with with this, is that if you only look at situations where SHK is being played, it's going to be biased towards it being good.
Good point. It'd be better to wait until I get SHK in a draft and see whether I'm happier drawing it than Warlord. (Kinda obvious maybe.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 10, 2014, 02:10:36 pm
Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
Yeah, what's with all the Druids in arena recently? Statistically it's mediocre (http://hearthstats.net/june) and I don't like it much because of low amounts of good common removal compared to Mage and Rogue. I understand the popularity in constructed since there at least it's among the best classes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 10, 2014, 03:38:01 pm
Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
Yeah, what's with all the Druids in arena recently? Statistically it's mediocre (http://hearthstats.net/june) and I don't like it much because of low amounts of good common removal compared to Mage and Rogue. I understand the popularity in constructed since there at least it's among the best classes.

I'm not sure, some of my best runs have been with Druid. There are good common minions, like Druid of the claw, which is why I think its popular.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on July 10, 2014, 04:52:27 pm
I think Druid is very strong in Arena, but lacks a little bit of the roflstomp madness that an amazing Mage/Rogue deck can pull off.  I rarely do poorly with Druid but also don't get double-digit wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 10, 2014, 04:56:31 pm
I posted something about arena Druid in the other thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9191.msg384736;topicseen#msg384736)

I think Druid is pretty good in arena. The big thing for me is that the average card quality is higher than with any other class, because there's very few bad Druid cards. You less often have to take Murloc Raider because your other choices were Repentance and Eye for and Eye, or Doomsayer because the other choices were Ice Block and Spellbender, etc.

I think all of the classes besides Hunter, Warlock, and Priest are pretty close in terms of how good they are in arena, and it comes down more to what you're more comfortable with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 10, 2014, 05:06:57 pm
I think Druid is very strong in Arena, but lacks a little bit of the roflstomp madness that an amazing Mage/Rogue deck can pull off.  I rarely do poorly with Druid but also don't get double-digit wins.

The most roflstompy Druid deck that I've had is:
0 - 2x innervate
1 - naturalize, leper
2 - 2x wrath, ooze, juggler, croc, young panda
3 - raging worgen, crusader, 2x cleric
4 - swipe, defender, 2x inventor, keeper, ogre magi, senjin, spellbreaker, knight
5 - 2x dotc, venture co
6 - starfire, commander, frost
7 -
8 - ironbark

If I can Innervate out one of the 5-drops and protect it with Wraths, Swipe, Naturalize, or Cleric buffs, I can get in for a ton of damage and then use the chargers/Starfire for reach or protect the board with Frost/Ironbark. And even if I don't draw the Innervates early, the whole deck is solid, with the only bad card being the Leper Gnome. This deck went 12 wins pretty easily.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on July 10, 2014, 06:30:59 pm
Just finished up my most recent arena: http://arenamastery.com/ELP6 (http://arenamastery.com/ELP6)

When I drafted it, I thought it would be a disaster.  I was offered very few 2-drops, and not many hugely powerful minions either.  Somehow I squeezed 7 wins out of it though.  I decided to test out streaming/recording for the last four games (2-2).  I'd love any feedback if you have the time/energy/whatever.  Alas, my connection seemed to reset a few times during the broadcast, so the video is split into 5 parts with 6 second breaks between each piece.  You can find them all at my twitch page: http://www.twitch.tv/mpsprs/

As to the recent topics:  I also saw a bunch of druids.  Four in 10 games, lost to two. 

Frost Wolf Warlord vs. SHK:  I had FWW.  With this deck, I'd have preferred SHK, since I had so few cheap minions.  My recollection from the unrecorded games is that this held true: FWW got played as a 4-4 multiple times (and the sun cleric as an expensive 3-2 regularly as well).  It did have it's moment though in a later game.  Then in my last, facing what I guessed was mirror entity, I'd have preferred SHK again (though it turned out not to matter).  I guess I'd say that if it was reasonably close in this deck, FWW is probably my preferred choice.

Edit:  And the pack at the end gave me my second legendary!  You are reading the post of the proud owner of Millhouse Manastorm!!!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 13, 2014, 10:57:59 pm
http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I always get frustrated when I face hunter combos.. either they don't have it and the decks or bad, and they do and they're unbeatable.  I thought I'd have a try playing a constructed deck in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Lekkit on July 14, 2014, 02:15:39 am
Looks pretty solid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on July 14, 2014, 08:33:52 am
Looks great! Although FOUR UTH and Buzzards might be too much (with only one Timber wolf)

Shaman Run with a beautiful curve imo:
1: Forked Lightning and Lightning Bolt
2: Axe, Windfury, Ooze, Berserker, Flametongue, Owl, Loot Hoarder, 2x Mad Bomber, Pyromancer
3: Hex, Acolyte of Pain, Worgen, 2x Raid Leader, Unbound Elemental
4: 2x Yeti, Cult master, Dark Iron Dwarf, Spell Breaker
5: Doomhammer, Earth Elemental, Frostwolf Warlord (definitely better in shaman deck)
6: Ogre, 2x Elemental
10: Deathwing
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 14, 2014, 09:27:51 am
I just had two shaman runs. Both went to six wins. This deck looks like my second deck. I got storm wind champion I. Both decks though, which really good for shaman in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 14, 2014, 11:36:09 am
http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I'd be very interested to see how this turns out.

Shaman Run with a beautiful curve imo:
Only problem I see is at the 3 spot. Raid leader is a really weak 3-drop, and you typically don't want to play acolyte or hex on turn 3. But having four 3/2s help in this department, since they are viable turn 3 plays.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 14, 2014, 05:44:05 pm
http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I'd be very interested to see how this turns out.

I went 4-3.  One of the losses was exactly what I expected to have happen in my losses:  I didn't draw enough relevant cards early, my opponent did a good job of playing around unleash, and I just didn't have enough to come back.

One loss was extremely, extremely flukey.  I was on the play and actually had a good curve.  Turn 2 crocolisk, turn 3 animal companion, turn 4 houndmaster, turn 5 houndmaster.  However, my opponents play were:  turn 4 innervate Black Knight, turn 5 coin black knight.  It was still a close game after that, but getting double black knighted is brutal.

I also lost to a druid who played 4 swipes.  Swipes are good against hunter.

I probably could've drafted it better.  I passed up good 2 drops for cards like Unleash, Hunters mark, when I really should've taken the 2 drops... but making the best deck wasn't really the goal here, I went all out for the combos after I saw leeroy.. don't regret making that choice even if I potentially gave up a few wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 15, 2014, 02:34:06 am
One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 15, 2014, 07:32:14 am
One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.

If that doesn't go 12 wins, I don't know what should.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 15, 2014, 09:50:25 am
I'm drafting my first Hunter Arena.  Come laugh at my choices!

www.twitch.tv/shraeye
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 15, 2014, 12:09:07 pm
One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
Only multi-target removal is Forked Lightning, and no area removal. Only 4 single-target removal options before Fire Elemental (Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Stormforged Axe, Stormwind Knight). Several cards that are only good when already having minions on the board (Flametongue Totem, SSC, Argus, Frostwolf Warlord; and to a much lesser degree, Dwarf and Darkscale Healer). No convincing big vanilla card like Yeti, Sen'jin, Ogre. I think this deck will have a very tough time if it can't get board control early, because it doesn't have tools to retake it.

It does seem likely to get out of control fast if it does hold on to board control.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 15, 2014, 12:32:13 pm
Yeah, I was kinda disappointed I didn't get a single Lightning storm in my draft. That 1x Forked Lightning is the only non-single target removal I got.

I don't remember the draft that well, but I do remember taking Unbound > Sen'jin around 15 cards in with Stormforged as only overload, and Darkscale > Stormpike Commando early on. Not so sure about the previous in retrospect, my logic was that Unbound + Overload card gets you a 3/5 but I wasn't thinking about the overload cost next turn and you have to draw an overload card to make it work.

This deck is probably going to live/die on whether the 2 drops and 3 drops live, haven't played it yet. In any case, getting 2 Rags is hilarious no matter what.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on July 15, 2014, 03:13:34 pm
One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
Only multi-target removal is Forked Lightning, and no area removal. Only 4 single-target removal options before Fire Elemental (Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Stormforged Axe, Stormwind Knight). Several cards that are only good when already having minions on the board (Flametongue Totem, SSC, Argus, Frostwolf Warlord; and to a much lesser degree, Dwarf and Darkscale Healer). No convincing big vanilla card like Yeti, Sen'jin, Ogre. I think this deck will have a very tough time if it can't get board control early, because it doesn't have tools to retake it.

It does seem likely to get out of control fast if it does hold on to board control.

Axe is multi-target over a few turns. It's definitely something that helps with board control. A second Lightning Bolt or Rockbiter would be nice, but there's so many 2-drops that it shouldn't be hard to just keep slamming down minions. It's okay to let hand size get lowish because your top end is big cards (2x Fire, 2x Rag).

The worst card in the deck is Thrallmar. TBH, I didn't even recognize it in the image. Harpy is also pretty bad, but other than that, the card quality looks really good. I'd be happy with this draft and would predict 7-9 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 15, 2014, 04:35:22 pm
I don't think deck quality is a good predictor of win count, by itself. Time of day seems important too. Also luck of what you're matched against in early games, which is influenced by time of day.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 15, 2014, 04:44:44 pm
I'm beginning to suspect this is true.  I have a small sample size, but I've always done better in mid-day drafts than 7am drafts...maybe the more casual players aren't playing at all hours of the day?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Lekkit on July 15, 2014, 06:05:36 pm
That is also true for constructed. And pretty much any online game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on July 15, 2014, 06:16:14 pm
I have theorized that Arena is much easier at the start of the month when all the hardcores are grinding ladder, and harder at the end of the month when the hardcores have made legendary and are just waiting for next season.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 15, 2014, 08:09:46 pm
I do think time of day matters a lot for arena. In the evening I seem to face more mages than any other time of day.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 15, 2014, 11:22:57 pm
Arena mastery has some stats on this, although it seems like the time of day stats are down. They're at the bottom of the page.

http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on July 15, 2014, 11:35:07 pm
Went 4-3 with this:

http://arenamastery.com/LUwt

I think it should have done better... but it was missing taunts (except Sunwalker), removal, and silence...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 16, 2014, 12:08:47 am
Oh god my heart. It's only 4 games in and I've almost lost 2.

Game 2: I have very easy lethal next turn. Fire Elemental, Windfury Harpy, Flametongue, Knife Juggler, Healing Totem, Rag, against a board of various weak things. Then my opponent plays MC Tech, Panda bounce, MC tech, and steals Windfury and Rag, and Rag kills Knife Juggler.

So now I'm facing lethal with no way to kill. I hit for face, get opponent down to 4. I have a Bolt and Mad Bomber in hand. Mad Bomber doesn't hit my opponent, but I get the 1/3 chance Spell Power totem for the win.

Game 4: Very aggressive warlock, was basically a Zoo deck. Argent Squire, SSC, 2 Knife Jugglers, Scarlet Crusader, Arcane Golem, 2 Injured Blademasters...I get down to 1 life before I stabilize behind a Argused Fire Elemental and DID. For 4 turns, he can't draw into any direct damage, I keep his board clear, and my taunts live just long enough for me to win.

Edit: Get opponent down to 10 life. Opponent plays 2nd Flamestrike of the day, pings the last guy on my side...then drops 2 Molten Giants. I win thanks to perfect taunt totem RNG but I made a misplay that should have costed me the game.

Edit 2: Ended 9-3. Don't remember my first loss, I think my life got too low. 2nd loss, he held onto Flamestrike longer than I thought he would and I overextended. 3rd loss, I'm behind in life but have the board mostly clear, and then Onyxia happens. Followed by Deathwing with me at 1 life just to BM. Around then was when I realized I had no Hexes in my draft. Ah well, got some ridiculously clutch wins out of it from Rag + MC Tech RNG. And I got my first Leper Gnome! It's about time, last common I didn't have.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 16, 2014, 08:04:44 am
Nice on the Leper Gnome. Was the very first card common I got in a pack.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 17, 2014, 07:57:55 pm
So I drafted a Demon-based Warlock deck:

1x Sacrificial Pact
2x Mortal Coil
1x Abusive Sergeant
1x Flame Imp
2x Voidwalker

2x Demonfire
1x Razorfen Hunter
2x Bloodfen Raptor
1x Dire Wolf Alpha
1x Knife Juggler
1x Mad Bomber

1x Sense Demons
1x Earthen Ring Farseer
1x Felguard
1x Scarlet Crusader

1x Summoning Portal
1x Scarlet Crusader
1x Chillwind Yeti
1x Pit Lord
1x Sen'jin Shieldmasta
1x Silvermoon Guardian

1x Faceless Manipulator

2x Dread Infernal
2x Argent Commander


Any guesses as to how it did?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 21, 2014, 02:31:50 am
Decided to try out this Arena Mastery thing. Here's my draft: http://arenamastery.com/BuYg

My strangest picks were probably Acolyte of Pain > Sen'jin and Holy Wrath > Azure Drake, which were both because of my curve. Not that I think the latter was actually correct, but it seemed like fun at the time, when I had like 15 4-costs and 6 of everything else.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 21, 2014, 02:38:41 am
I would've definitely taken Fen Creeper over Guardian of Kings, Humility over Blessing of Might, Azure drake over Holy Wrath.

I'm unsure if I start off with Defender or Drake.. both are extremely, extremely good.  I may lean drake just because paladin tends to get clogged up with lots of 4 drops.

The deck looks very good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 21, 2014, 11:01:08 am
Argus is strong card, but Drake has the advantage that it's good in every situation. Need a big body? It's pretty big by arena standards. Need card draw? It'll do that. Having spell damage too just makes it bonkers.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 21, 2014, 03:56:56 pm
6-2 so far. I am feeling the lack of Consecration.

This Holy Wrath has not let me down yet, though! My opponent had 8 health on turn 9, I Holy Wrathed his face and drew a Truesilver Champion. Clutch.

One of the games I lost, I had an Amani out on turn 2, my opponent played a Mad Bomber and it killed the Amani. I was kinda pissed.

Edit: 7-2, Just killed my opponent via Dark Iron Dwarf + Blessing of Might on Questing Adventurer to put it to 12/7, plus 4/4 Spiteful Smith plus 6/1 Truesilver Champion for exactly 22 damage lethal.

Edit 2: Ended up 9-3. Not the best, but not bad for a deck with no Consecrations.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 21, 2014, 05:09:41 pm
I did another one: http://arenamastery.com/VBOr

Pretty much just followed the tier list since I'm not too experienced with Rogue. Blade Flurry as my last pick goes against the list but I think is pretty obvious in my deck.

3-0 so far, have had board control pretty much the entire time
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on July 21, 2014, 09:35:06 pm
Whoa! I just finished a warrior arena.  I went 3-1 with this deck, and was feeling pretty good about myself.  Then I lost and was feeling terrible, like a nice run was about to be cut off at the 3-4 level that I just COULDN'T ever get past.  Then, I miraculously won 5 in a row and ended 8-3!!  I know y'all have done better, but I'm ultra excited to have set a new benchmark!

http://arenamastery.com/LRMF


Also, Rampage/Imp Master is a bitchin' combo.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on July 21, 2014, 11:17:58 pm
link not working.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 25, 2014, 11:27:57 pm
So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 25, 2014, 11:34:43 pm
So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on July 26, 2014, 04:01:06 am
So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.

The trick, I think, is death rattles that matter.  Seeds + Egg is clearly meant to be.  Golem, too.  Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on July 26, 2014, 09:01:37 am
So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.

The trick, I think, is death rattles that matter.  Seeds + Egg is clearly meant to be.  Golem, too.  Stuff like that.

Seeds plus Egg is... a 6 mana Silver Hand Knight.  Obviously if you can get more death rattles out it gets better, but if your opponent has death rattles or tokens it gets much worse.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on July 26, 2014, 04:47:27 pm
Anyone know up-to-date and accurate probabilities and algorithm for the cards you get to pick from in arena drafting? The best I could find is this post (http://gaming.stackexchange.com/a/157110), but it's from February and the numbers are pretty vague.

Alternatively, if I had a ton of draft data available, it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer approximate probabilities. But I don't track my drafts.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 27, 2014, 05:48:57 pm
Going to try out another full streamed arena run at http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake. I'll edit the VOD after it's done.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 27, 2014, 05:57:44 pm
Just played a really weird endgame in a Shaman vs Warlock arena match at 7 wins.

On turn 8, I'm down something like 20 health to 6, but he has no minions and almost no hand and I have a couple minions out. My hand is Alexstrasza, Unbound Elemental, Lava Burst, Stormforged Axe.

On turn 8, he plays some crappy minions. I play my Unbound and Stormforged Axe to kill them, but this puts me at 4 health, and with only 8 mana to spend next turn.

On turn 9, he plays Ysera. I manage to kill it while retaining board control and bringing him down to 11 health (thank you based Flametongue Totem), but I have to use my Lava Burst, which again leaves me with 8 mana next turn. I also played another Unbound on this turn.

On turn 10, he plays a few minions and then uses Nightmare (http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Nightmare) on his Sen'jin. I can't get through it without losing my entire board, and I can't play Alexstrasza, so I play Defender of Argus, giving me two huge Unbound Elementals, and pass.

On turn 11, his Sen'jin dies to Nightmare. He topdecks Azure Drake, which draws him a Hellfire, so he wins.

I cried.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 27, 2014, 06:35:59 pm
http://arenamastery.com/VqGv

It's turn 3 of game 1 and both my Pyroblasts are in my hand

Shame I didn't take Ice Block when I had the chance

Edit: Turn 8 Cone of Cold -> Turn 9 Cone of Cold -> Opponent concedes
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 27, 2014, 07:20:39 pm
ffff I'm an idiot

It was turn 9 and I had a Pyroblast in hand, so I played Fireball + Frostbolt + ping to bring my opponent down to 10 health

But then he played Darkscale Healer... and I lost like 6 turns later.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on July 27, 2014, 07:53:31 pm
ffff
That's pretty loud.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 27, 2014, 09:06:30 pm
Well, that run was godly.

http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/551885761

Really, really nice draft. Solid creatures, good board clear, had the option of doing lots of damage from the hand...probably could have been 12 wins if I had played it better. Unfortunately, it was not to be.

The above run is pretty long, so I'm highlighting this game in particular. http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/c/4760969
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 29, 2014, 03:00:32 pm
So I'm at 9-0 with this deck: http://arenamastery.com/73hA

I thought it was good, but not THAT good - three Fire Elementals is good, obviously, but only one Hex, only one Axe, and no cards with the word "Lightning."

I've ended up winning a lot of games by bursting down my opponent from 15+ health; twice with Bloodlust, and three times with Flametongue + Windspeaker on one of my big bodies (Fire Ele, Frostwolf Warlord). The Nerubian Egg has found some use, too. Mostly with Flametongue Totem, and it soaked up a Holy Nova once.



Edit: 11-3 :( I hate Flamestrike
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on July 29, 2014, 06:25:21 pm
Anyone know up-to-date and accurate probabilities and algorithm for the cards you get to pick from in arena drafting? The best I could find is this post (http://gaming.stackexchange.com/a/157110), but it's from February and the numbers are pretty vague.

Alternatively, if I had a ton of draft data available, it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer approximate probabilities. But I don't track my drafts.
There's this but I don't know how reliable it is: http://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/2aquyq/hypothesis_arena_card_generation/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 02, 2014, 04:43:57 pm
Shaman, P1P1:

Big Game Hunter, Sea Giant, Doomhammer?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 02, 2014, 05:44:44 pm
I think Sea Giant is #1 Epic in arena for Shaman. Earth Elemental is close, then Doomhammer, then BGH.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 02, 2014, 05:53:20 pm
Went for Sea Giant already.
Going 5-0 so far, haven't seen Sea Giant once I think :P Bloodlust, however..

Had the weirdest game, tho.
vs Mage.
T1: Mirror Image
T2: ShieldBearer
T3. Draw 2.
T4: +8 armor secret.
T5: Ping a 2/1, Vaporize
T6: I THINK Draw 2 again, 2/3 guy.. or ping.. something weird anyway.

It seemed to me that the whole day is "try to survive, draw multiple flamestrikes, and win randomly".
I've just played Flamestrike surviving guys (tho he didn't ACTUALLY play any flamestrike) and it was easy-peasy, as expected.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 04, 2014, 11:47:50 am
Just had a surprisingly good run with this priest: http://arenamastery.com/xky1
I didn't think it would do very good due to the lack of 2-drops, but got to 10 wins anyway.
Playing priest is just so fun sometimes, they have really cool cards that make for such interesting play decisions. Also, Flamestriking Mages is just about the most satisfying thing to do.
The last game was definitely remarkable as well: I played against a Miracle Rogue. He played Gadgetzan, Backstabed my Minion, Deadly Poisoned, and on the next turn sapped the minion i played to kill his Gadgetzan.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on August 05, 2014, 04:31:33 pm
I came back and won this game even after this stroke of bad luck:

(http://i.imgur.com/XM77fVg.jpg)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on August 05, 2014, 04:44:04 pm
Trade whelp for hoarder, sw: death the dragon, trade 3 whelks for mc tech, drop ogre?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on August 05, 2014, 04:44:37 pm
Correct.  Having that SW:D saved me from lethal since he had a Fireball in his hand.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 05, 2014, 11:04:03 pm
OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 05, 2014, 11:24:53 pm
OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?

Doesn't work. What class? I'd go with ysera, since Gruul and Malygos are not great normally.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on August 06, 2014, 12:26:11 am
Definitely Ysera, just coming from a noob perspective.  She has destroyed me so many times, and without even needing to use the 4 attack...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 06, 2014, 06:47:11 am
OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?

Doesn't work. What class? I'd go with ysera, since Gruul and Malygos are not great normally.
Rogue. If I had known how many spells I would see and also get malygos, I could have done something cool. But oh well. I cab post the whole deck later
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 06, 2014, 04:42:20 pm
I chose Ysera.  Here's the final draft
http://arenamastery.com/6kuh

I think it might be OK, but the curve feels a little high to me. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on August 06, 2014, 04:44:46 pm
oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on August 06, 2014, 04:50:52 pm
3 backstabs certainly make malygos better.. I'm not sure what'd I'd pick knowing that
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 06, 2014, 04:52:22 pm
oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
yeah, I really didn't know what to pick there.  I figured minion was the best.

3 backstabs certainly make malygos better.. I'm not sure what'd I'd pick knowing that
right.  I only had 4 spells in total though...
And I tend to use backstabs pretty early
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 06, 2014, 05:45:10 pm
Ughhhh... I lost my last game because I'm stupid.  I forgot backstab doesn't hit damaged minions.  He had 2 health, a 1/1 token with taunt and a 3/1 wild pyromancer w/ taunt.  And I knifed the token then couldn't backstab the pyromancer... and i had a 3/1 on the board.  ugh.  always remember slow play
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 06, 2014, 08:55:30 pm
I've just played T1 Coin -> Nothing, instead of T1 Northshire, T2 Coin -> Dancing Swords, by mistake. :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 06, 2014, 09:07:53 pm
Well, at least you din't give your opponent a card.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 06, 2014, 10:07:31 pm
oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
yeah, I really didn't know what to pick there.  I figured minion was the best.

14 is Tidehunter no question. If your opponent doesn't have a way to kill the 2/1 (e.g. Mage/Rogue/Druid hero power), it trades evenly with another 2-drop. Wisp and Sinister will never do something like that.

The lack of 2-drops isn't as bad with all the cheap removal. You may miss an opportunity to get ahead on the board, but you're not going to straight up die.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 08, 2014, 10:53:24 pm
Brought a Mage down to 1 health as a Druid. They dropped Ice Barrier, Molten Giant, Sunfury Protector, and Cone of Cold, and killed me the next turn, spamming "My magic will tear you apart!" the whole time.

It was rough.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 10, 2014, 03:26:04 am
Played against a Warrior that used Brawl, killed 6 of my minions with Gorehowl charges, had two Ogres and a Molten Giant...and I still ended up a card ahead by the time we went to fatigue, having killed all of his outs.

At one point, I had 12 health, he had 30 health + 10 armor, and I was down to 1 card in hand vs 4...and still won. Completely ridiculous value grind to get back in it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 10, 2014, 07:18:45 am
I recently won an Arena game cuz of Thoughtsteal information.
We were both low on cards and near Topdeck mode, and I knew that he has Execute and Cleave as removals in his last few cards. So all I had to do is maintain a board with 1 healthy minion on my own, and he has two dead cards. Turned out those were his last two, I think. And if I had dropped my Loot Hoarder that would let him kill that guy and Lightspawn and probably win on fatigue, fortunately I knew exactly what he had in hand :P

Felt so awesome :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 10, 2014, 06:10:40 pm
I recently won an Arena game cuz of Thoughtsteal information.
We were both low on cards and near Topdeck mode, and I knew that he has Execute and Cleave as removals in his last few cards. So all I had to do is maintain a board with 1 healthy minion on my own, and he has two dead cards. Turned out those were his last two, I think. And if I had dropped my Loot Hoarder that would let him kill that guy and Lightspawn and probably win on fatigue, fortunately I knew exactly what he had in hand :P

Felt so awesome :P
I'm sure this has been discussed in a MtG context somewhere before, but I wonder if the game would be better or worse if the complete decklist were public information.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 10, 2014, 06:35:09 pm
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.


In other news,
WTF IS WITH THESE COMMONS AS ARENA AWARDS?
It's as they are giving me 5 dust. It is insulting. I had lke 10, 8, 5, and 3 arena today, EACH time I got a common (one gold, though, but not that it matters).
It... UGH. So frustrating.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 10, 2014, 07:06:47 pm
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

Quote
In other news,
WTF IS WITH THESE COMMONS AS ARENA AWARDS?
It's as they are giving me 5 dust. It is insulting. I had lke 10, 8, 5, and 3 arena today, EACH time I got a common (one gold, though, but not that it matters).
It... UGH. So frustrating.
100% agree. Except gold commons are fine. They are worth a reasonable amount of dust. I think 50. Non-gold commons were semi-reasonable for 0-2 wins back when it was 5 boxes no matter how many wins you got, because you have to give some bad stuff, but now it's so much worse than anything you can get. I've gotten a non-gold common on a 12 win run, which is just ridiculous compared to the contents of the other boxes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 10, 2014, 07:22:42 pm
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on August 10, 2014, 07:42:32 pm
I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
It increases the importance of calculation, especially in control-control matchups. In general, having more information makes calculation more valuable and guessing less valuable. Take Chess as an extreme example: you have all the information, so there's no guessing and a lot of calculation. I don't think having more calculation is necessarily better or worse, it's just different, and the sweet spot of how much is best will vary for different people.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 10, 2014, 08:54:42 pm
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
I don't know much at all about MtG, but I'm guessing knowing the full decklist would make unpopular, situational cards even more unpopular. Can't think of any good examples of Hearthstone cards that would become even more unplayable than they are now. Anyway, revealing the decklist really ruins secrets too, should you decide to only run a couple for support.

Edit: Unless you hide the secrets, only showing how many the the player has.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 11, 2014, 01:32:48 am
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.

You're in a sense computing probabilities no matter what. It's just a matter of what the probability space is. Limiting the probability space increases the impact of in-game decisions, since the difference between computing and not computing is larger. In that sense, the gameplay becomes more skill-based and less random. The downside is that it takes out the value of deception, particularly in deck-building. You can't get value out of a surprise factor, which might limit the variety of possible decks. I assume this is valued more than the skill in play (otherwise tournaments would require people to disclose their decklists). However, for arena, deckbuilding is already restricted, but not in a way that makes decks homogenous, so I think the balance between this and the play skill element favors revealing decklists.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on August 11, 2014, 03:31:29 am
Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
I don't know much at all about MtG, but I'm guessing knowing the full decklist would make unpopular, situational cards even more unpopular. Can't think of any good examples of Hearthstone cards that would become even more unplayable than they are now. Anyway, revealing the decklist really ruins secrets too, should you decide to only run a couple for support.

Edit: Unless you hide the secrets, only showing how many the the player has.

In constructed, giving the opponent the knowledge that you don't have Big Game Hunter in your deck is a big deal, for example.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 11, 2014, 04:35:11 am
I like not revealing the decklist from a game design perspective. For a new player, there's less information to overwhelm you, and for an experienced player who knows the cards his opponent could potentially be running, there's more stuff that you have to take into account when making decisions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 16, 2014, 06:06:55 pm
How did I do? :)

http://arenamastery.com/43RG

Note:  When I finished I realized I only had 29 cards, not 30 in arena mastery.  Found I had missed one of my frostbolt picks so that's number 30.  Those cards aren't necessarily the cards that came up with the frostbolt because I forgot
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Twistedarcher on August 16, 2014, 06:19:08 pm
Pick #2: Stormpike Commando over Shieldbearer
Pick #6: I'd probably go Gnomish Inventor
Pick #10: I could see this one going either way but I'm sure Faceless will do fine
Pick #15: I'd go for the 2/3, the 1 damage isn't worth one more mana for a worse creature
Pick #17: I really like Frostwolf Warlord in arena
Pick #26: Oh wow, two legendaries! Not sure if I'd go Thalnos over a bigger body. His spell damage is nice but there's no guarantee you'll be able to use it effectively

Your deck looks good, you had a lot of good cards to choose from this draft!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 16, 2014, 06:47:06 pm
I mostly agree, except I don't know what "other way" you're talking about on pick 10. Faceless is waaaaaay better than Molten or Crab...

I also want to expand on why Fuegen is better than Thalnos. You don't really have too many damage spells. At this point you have 1 Frostbolt and a Flamestrike, which is typically to expensive to play the same turn as Thalnos. So for the most part, Thalnos is just a delayed Novice Engineer in this deck, which is definitely worse than a 4/7 for 5.

Also, on picks 7 and 9, I like Mana Wyrm and Bluegill better than Loot and Aco. Both are very close and a matter of cards vs tempo. Then I take Intellect over Gurubashi to get back the card advantage. Gurubashi is okay for Mage, but really only good in Priest. Pinging it into 5/6 is fine, since 5/6 trades well with most things, but at 7 mana... meh.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 17, 2014, 03:05:13 am
I have drafted the funniest arena deck, and have squandered it away by actually getting losses.

3 Innervates
4 Swipes
2 Spectral Knights
1 Chillwind Yeti
1 Ancient of War

are the highlights. My early game isn't that good if I don't draw the Innervates, and all the removal I have means I have surprisingly few creatures to start dealing damage. However, when I draw the right opening, it is completely hilarious. One time, I turn 2 double Innervated out an Ogre. In the game I just played against Priest, my turns went

T1: Coin + Innervate, Yeti
T2: Acidic Swamp Ooze
T3: Innervate, Spectral Knight
T4: Swipe to clear the small things he had left
T5: Spectral Knight, opponent resigns

Just, the craziest blowout games I've ever seen, as long as I draw the right cards.

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on August 23, 2014, 05:14:40 pm
http://arenamastery.com/1Q1O

I didn't actually spend the time to put this in pick-by-pick, and I'll admit I wasn't really trying my hardest on this Arena.  But it ended up being a fun deck and went 3-3.  My first pick was KT Mage.  Worst case scenario, it's a 4/3 body for 3 and I don't draft any secrets.

Instead, I end up with 5 secrets in here.  KT Mage gets used to its fullest in all six games.  Duplicate ends up used on Mirror Image a couple of times, alas, though getting effectively a second MI for 0 mana isn't horrible.  But the most fun was Duplicate hitting DI Dwarf and Faerie Dragon at various points.  I believe it also grabbed one minion that was from Mirror Entity.

I'm not certain there's a place in the Constructed meta for a crazy mage-secrets deck, but this was fun to play.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 23, 2014, 05:17:34 pm
http://arenamastery.com/1Q1O

I didn't actually spend the time to put this in pick-by-pick, and I'll admit I wasn't really trying my hardest on this Arena.  But it ended up being a fun deck and went 3-3.  My first pick was KT Mage.  Worst case scenario, it's a 4/3 body for 3 and I don't draft any secrets.

Instead, I end up with 5 secrets in here.  KT Mage gets used to its fullest in all six games.  Duplicate ends up used on Mirror Image a couple of times, alas, though getting effectively a second MI for 0 mana isn't horrible.  But the most fun was Duplicate hitting DI Dwarf and Faerie Dragon at various points.  I believe it also grabbed one minion that was from Mirror Entity.

I'm not certain there's a place in the Constructed meta for a crazy mage-secrets deck, but this was fun to play.

Secret heavy mages are too gimmicky I think to be serious constructed decks. Even with Mad Scientist. I think Hunters heavy on secrets are better because they are harder to play around than most of the mage ones.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 25, 2014, 01:28:16 am
Me, Opp

T1: nothing, nothing
T2: Novice Engineer, Hero power kill Novice
T3: Innervate-Venture Co, Coin-Loot Hoarder-Amani
T4: (hm, why the Coin. Maybe he has Mark of Nature, let's play it safe.) Swipe to clear board and hit for 7, Cobra
T5: (topdeck Swipe - hey, nice!) Swipe on Cobra and hit for 7, Dark Iron Dwarf
T6: (topdeck Swipe - ...okay) Swipe on Dark Iron and hit for 7, Starfire on Venture Co into resign.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on August 25, 2014, 08:32:22 am
Me, Opp

T1: nothing, nothing
T2: Novice Engineer, Hero power kill Novice
T3: Innervate-Venture Co, Coin-Loot Hoarder-Amani
T4: (hm, why the Coin. Maybe he has Mark of Nature, let's play it safe.) Swipe to clear board and hit for 7, Cobra
T5: (topdeck Swipe - hey, nice!) Swipe on Cobra and hit for 7, Dark Iron Dwarf
T6: (topdeck Swipe - ...okay) Swipe on Dark Iron and hit for 7, Starfire on Venture Co into resign.

To be fair, not many opponents are going to have a response to T3 VC Merc, unless they kept a removal in hand just to counter such a thing.  And of course a druid would need either a pair of Swipes/Wraths or a Naturalize.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 25, 2014, 11:08:29 am
My opponent just silenced my Ancient Mage.

This goes in the Best HS thread.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 30, 2014, 12:52:33 am
So I went 12-2 with Shaman! It was pretty good, two Spectral Knights did lots of work against Mages and 2x Hex + 1x Lightning Storm were useful. No Fire Elementals, but more than my fair share of 10/10 Frostwolf Warlords. There was also a good game which started out with

Me: Pass
Opp: Pass
Me: Searing Totem
Opp: Searing Totem
Me: Earthen Ring Farseer, heal Opp
Opp: Earthen Ring Farseer, heal me

Anyway, right after that run ended, I started a new arena, and my first pick was between Deathwing, Leeroy, and Cairne. And then, my last pick, well... http://arenamastery.com/epHO
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 30, 2014, 06:26:41 pm
Ah, so close to a 12 win run. I got 11-3 with this Paladin deck, a personal best: http://arenamastery.com/B0bu (http://arenamastery.com/B0bu)

Around the middle of the draft, I recognized the board control potential of the deck, and so leaned more towards buff cards and divine shield givers. I did this run on my smurfy Euro account, which I used to get some arena practice while saving for Naxxramas wings on my main NA account. At this rate, my Euro account might save enough gold to buy all the wings of Naxx too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 30, 2014, 06:39:00 pm
Just went 12-2 after starting out 0-2, which feels really good. I thought my deck was quite good and was quite frustrated it looked so bad in the beginning, especially since the priest I lost my second game to seemed to have literally the only possible answers to what I did: He Mass dispelled my board of 2 blessing-of-kinged Oozes+Nerubian Egg, and Auchenai-Circled my huge board later on.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 30, 2014, 09:51:49 pm
Just went 12-2 after starting out 0-2, which feels really good. I thought my deck was quite good and was quite frustrated it looked so bad in the beginning, especially since the priest I lost my second game to seemed to have literally the only possible answers to what I did: He Mass dispelled my board of 2 blessing-of-kinged Oozes+Nerubian Egg, and Auchenai-Circled my huge board later on.
I hear ya. I had an Paladin arena run just now that went 8-3 where I lost the first 2 games. Just goes to show that it's always worth playing an arena run to the end if you think your deck has what it takes to go far.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Hydrad on September 01, 2014, 02:08:14 am
One thing to note though is that if you do go 0-2 the chances are decently high that you will still get pretty far with your deck. Because it will try to match you with someone else who is 0-2 so they will usually have a poor deck. Then you get matched with someone close to 1-2 who most likely also has a poor deck. Where as when you win a bunch and your 5-0 you tend to hit someone who has a much better deck and can start to lose steam.

I know at least from my experience I usually go 5-0 and then from 5-7 wins is where I get most of my losses usually 1 or 2, It seems like there i a wall for me there. But if I start out 0-2 I can still get 7 wins pretty frequently.

Some of my best runs and actually I believe some of my 12 win runs have all been from starting out 0-2. So don't give up if it looks bleak!

(Also this info could be wrong. I havn't found a source that I'm citing or anything but I'm pretty sure I heard it from somewhere that was a blizzard employee or something. But this could be wrong and don't trust it 100% unless you find a source that you can trust)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 01, 2014, 10:49:32 pm
Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2014, 10:59:07 pm
Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
And you know what AdamH always says!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 01, 2014, 11:23:39 pm
Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
And you know what AdamH always says!

"I'm streaming" ?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 02, 2014, 01:03:50 am
So this one went 5-0 to start, currently 7-2.  Not entirely sure what I did right, but it was something:

http://arenamastery.com/FADC
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 02, 2014, 01:26:47 am
So this one went 5-0 to start, currently 7-2.  Not entirely sure what I did right, but it was something:

http://arenamastery.com/FADC

You got 5 elementals. Elementals rock arena.

Some unsolicited pick comments:
1. Shade is easily the worst of the 3 cards offered. It's an average 3-drop. Doomhammer is amazing.
3. I fell like you have to take Champ, expecially in Shaman. It's a top tier card while Forked is merely above average.
8. I like Bloodsail better than Panther, simply because 2-drops are more important than 3-drops.
16. Earth Shock is okay, but I think Cleric is too good in Shaman to pass up for anything that's not going to 2-for-1.
18. Tauren is one of the worst cards in the game. While Bodyguard will often trade down, it will almost always at least trade for a card, which is more than can be said for Tauren.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 03, 2014, 11:59:23 am
http://arenamastery.com/rCi6

Double Dragon:  Ysera and Onyxia in one arena draft.

Plus!  4 Korkron Elites and 2 MC Techs.

I think this one may work out well... either that or I'll play badly and waste a 2-legendary arena deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 03, 2014, 12:43:31 pm
I also just got a 2 Legendary Arena run! So far it's gone 3-0. This is what I drafted from memory (I have not setup Arena Mastery yet, but I think I am about to). I clearly forgot a few cards, but I think they're probably average 2 or 3 drop minions. (Edit: Actually I recounted and apparently I remember all 30 cards which shocks me that my memory is so good, there's possibly 1 or 2 errors, but this is very close to the exact draft). Where I remember the draft cards I rejected I've put the cards I didn't pick in ()s.

1s:
2 x Mana Wyrm
2 x Arcane Missiles
1 x Undertaker (Silverback Patriarch, Mogushan Warden)

2s:
1 x Sorceror's Apprentice
3 x Frostbolt!
1 x Novice Inventor
2 x Amani Berserker
1 x River Croc

3s:
1 x Dancing Sword
1 x Tauren Warrior
1 x Arcane Intellect
1 x Duplicate
1 x Scarlet Crusader

4s:
2 x Polymorph
2 x Violet Teacher!
1 x Cone of Cold

5+s:
1 x Stranglethorn Tiger
1 x Frost Elemental
1 x Sunfury Protector
1 x Black Knight (Tinkmaster, Alexandria)
1 x Flamestrike
1 x Ysera (Loatheb, Hogger)
1 x Molten Giant (Sea Giant, Big Game Hunter)

On Tauren Warrior: I agree that it's pretty garbage with most classes, but in Mage it's probably only a slightly below average 3 drop since you can activate it yourself. An expensive Amani Berserker with Taunt is better than a lot of things in a Mage deck.
On Undertaker: There is definitely only 1 card with Deathrattle in my deck (Dancing Sword) but it's still better than Silverback and Mogushan.
On Black Knight: I briefly debated taking Alexandria, but eventually decided on Black Knight because of the popularity of Taunt cards in Arena. I haven't actually drawn him yet, but I'm sure he'll be great. (I never considered taking Tinkmaster.)
On Ysera: I really considered Loatheb here, but I think he's better in Constructed than Arena as Arena decks tend to be more minion heavy (not the one I drafted, but in general). Ysera on the other hand can generate a big card advantage late game and hopefully by the time she's played some other beefy card has eaten the creature removal spells from the opponents deck. (This happened in my second game where Protector ate a Polymorph letting me put Ysera out safely and win.) I like Hogger, but he's usually killed off before you can get much value out of him, Ysera and Loatheb are superior in my opinion.
On Molten Giant decision: This was my first choice in the game and in retrospect I would have taken Sea Giant. There's been plenty of opportunities to play it for 6 or less (the Violet Teachers have been spawning lots of Apprentices and Duplicate tends to let you flood the board at some point, especially if you duplicate something cheap or a Violet Teacher). I considered taking BGH, but thought to myself "Would I rather kill a big creature an opponent might have or have a big creature that an opponent might kill?" The answer was then clear that I needed a Giant. Luckily I drafted other ways to deal with large threats.
On Violet Teachers: Normally I would consider this a pretty average card, not bad, but not great. In this draft though they get a lot of value almost always creating 1 or 2 apprentices before eating a silence or being killed.

On the deck in general:
This is a spell heavy draft. Two Mana Wyrms, two Violet Teachers and a Sorceror's Apprentice synergize really well with spells. Lots of Frostbolts, two Polymorphs, and a Flamestrike are great on their own, but having those spell synergy minions makes Arcane Missiles, Arcane Intellect and Cone of Cold punch above their weight class. No opportunities to draft Spell Power cards made me sad, though, and I think would have really pushed this draft through the roof.

This deck has a lack of strong 4 drops (no Yetis, Water Elementals or Senjins were seen in the draft, nor were any Fireballs), but a lot of the smaller cards can trade up so they're making up for it a bit.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 03, 2014, 12:51:19 pm
I think this one may work out well... either that or I'll play badly and waste a 2-legendary arena deck.

And since my first game was lost to another warrior who was able to get a Shade up to 9/7 before I drew a weapon... yeah, this could go badly.

Game 3:  All of my weapons, both legendaries, Commander, two Elites were all in my last 13 cards.  That went poorly.

....and 5-3 overall.  At least I got to play both legends at least once (Ysera four times I think)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 03, 2014, 01:12:56 pm
I just got zoo'd in arena. Doom guard, flame imp, soul fires, undertaker, haunted creeper... So pissed since it was on my shaman run that went 8-3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 05, 2014, 10:43:16 pm
I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

Now, I'm putting it around average. Yes, it's not as good if you draw it after the first couple of turns, or if you're going second. However, if you can play it turn 2, and it doesn't die, the power of getting a 4 cost out on turn 3 makes it worth it.

From playing it a bit, here's the common scenarios:

1. Go first, play turn 2 against empty board. Either they kill it that turn, which makes it no different from a 3/2, or it lives and you can get a 4 cost out next turn
2. Go second, coin it out if it makes sense to (meaning you have another 2 cost and a 3 cost.) Same scenario, either trades for a piece of removal or you get a 3 drop turn 2, which isn't amazing but can help.
3. Go second, doesn't make sense to coin it, and they play a 2/3 or 3/2 on their turn 2. The 2/3 is worst, the 3/2 is okay but leaves you open to SSC.
3. Go second, play turn 2, somehow lives until your turn 3 because they didn't play anything turn 2. Then it's the same as the first case.
4. Draw late game and it's bad.

So overall, I think I should be treating it as a weaker Knife Juggler - it has a big target and usually dies first, sometimes dying in bad ways for card advantage, but the potential tempo boost makes it decent.

(The deck I'm playing where I started thinking about this, in case this is only true because my deck has a nice curve for it. Might be true, I have some pretty solid 4s. Warlock, currently 5-2.)

---0 cost---
Soulfire
---1 cost---
Power Overwhelming
Mortal Coil
Zombie Chow
---2 cost---
Knife Juggler
Kobold Geomancer
Mad Bomber
Mad Scientist
Nerubian Egg
Pint Sized Summoner
Sunfury Protector
---3 cost---
Drain Life
Shadow Bolt
Demolisher
Scarlet Crusader
Shattered Sun Cleric
Wolfrider
---4 cost---
Hellfire
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Dark Iron Dwarf
Gnomish Inventor
Pit Lord
Stormwind Knight
Violet Teacher
---5 cost---
Darkscale Healer
Fen Creeper
Spectral Knight
Stormpike Commando
---8 cost---
Twisting Nether
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 07, 2014, 11:23:41 am
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well? I had an insightful Mage arena run yesterday that I thought would struggle to reach 3 wins because it didn't have many good early minions. Instead it went 9-3:
http://arenamastery.com/mD8X (http://arenamastery.com/mD8X)
I didn't bother adding the draft choices info. Sometimes I feel that recording all the draft choices distracts me, or maybe I'm just lazy sometimes. I'm curious to know how happy you'd all be if you had such a draft.

It was really interesting how the cards played out together. It gave me a sense of what a real tempo-heavy deck would play like. Turns 1-3 I had to play defensively, but after turn 4 I had an onslaught on value minions to play. If my opponents didn't respond to them promptly, then my minions could do enough face damage to give me Pyroblast-lethal later. The deck wouldn't win by board control, but taunts were key to keeping my mininos from being traded into. Makes me think that the lack of Flamestrike actually improved the deck. Pyroblast was key though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 07, 2014, 11:44:38 am
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 07, 2014, 12:41:23 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 07, 2014, 09:20:07 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 07, 2014, 09:51:00 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 08, 2014, 09:24:51 am
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 08, 2014, 11:12:22 am
So, I'm jinx and I stay away from picking mage in arena.
So after refusing it many times, I finally said "heck it" and picked it.
And like last 3 times. No Fireballs, No Flamestrikes. 2 Watery guys but once I misscliced and picked 2/2 vanilla :P.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 08, 2014, 04:12:37 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
I'm currently in the middle of a 4-2 Hunter run with Deathwing in it. I guess all bets are off when it comes to Deathwing. I almost won with it last game, but my opponent was able to drop molten giant with 4 extra damage worth of minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 08, 2014, 04:14:29 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
I'm currently in the middle of a 4-2 Hunter run with Deathwing in it. I guess all bets are off when it comes to Deathwing. I almost won with it last game, but my opponent was able to drop molten giant with 4 extra damage worth of minions.

Deathwing is unique in that sense, that either it'll win or be a waste of a card. It's more like the mid drop legendaris, and some of the class ones, are decent on their own. I agree though that some are too specific, things like anotindas and such. But things like Tirion Frodring are amazing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 08, 2014, 04:48:48 pm
Deathwing is one of the best legendaries in arena though, because you'll only play it in a losing position. Meaning, you are either winning, or you completely turn around the game, and if they could remove Deathwing you were probably going to lose anyways.

Okay, maybe saying it's the best is a bit too much, especially because you could die before turn 10, but I'd certainly pick it over most legendaries.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 08, 2014, 05:31:57 pm
Deathwing is one of the best legendaries in arena though, because you'll only play it in a losing position. Meaning, you are either winning, or you completely turn around the game, and if they could remove Deathwing you were probably going to lose anyways.

Okay, maybe saying it's the best is a bit too much, especially because you could die before turn 10, but I'd certainly pick it over most legendaries.

I didn't say it was bad, just that it's effect is unique and isn't quite representational of picking legendaries in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 08, 2014, 06:35:47 pm
Oh man, Tirion Fordring. If Tirion + Redemption doesn't make you want to rage quit, I don't know what will.

The thing is, it's easy to not play Deathwing when it wouldn't help you, but that dead card could have been something that's almost always playable like Avenging Wrath or Fireball. Cards like those strengthen your position no matter who has the advantage. Many legendaries don't provide that flexibility.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 10, 2014, 01:37:11 pm
Ugh, was playing a Rogue deck that's 2-2. Not a great deck, but I was hoping to eke out a third and maybe 4th win with it. I start the game playing second, my opponent uses his first turn wasting Claw to do 2 damage to my face. Off to a good start. By turn three I've got a developed board (a 3/1 and a 2/2) 5 cards in hand and he's played 3 creatures that I was able to remove with the combined resources of one Backstab and two dagger stabs. He has two cards in hand. There's still a lot of game to play, but I'm in a very good position and he doesn't seem very experienced.

He seems to be taking a long time, maybe he's slow rolling me? I'm unsure, but wait it out. He's taking a really long time, I think that maybe the fuse should have started by now, time keeps ticking. His character has definitely made the "I'm thinking" quote 4 times now, that's higher than usual. I get a message popping up saying I'm reconnecting to Hearthstone and that I've been disconnected... dammit.

By the time I reconnect enough turns have passed he has cleared my board, gotten me down to 3 life and played 3 minions that I could have removed immediately with the cards in my hand. I reconnect just in time to lose the game, but see that I had drawn the cards to win the game. I lose the game sitting on a couple minions, 3 eviscerates, a sprint, and an assassinate.

Worst disconnect ever.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 10, 2014, 03:43:35 pm
Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 10, 2014, 04:19:09 pm
Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.

I'm glad it's not just me. Maybe Blizzard will do something to fix it if it's something effecting everyone.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 10, 2014, 05:40:44 pm
Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.

I'm glad it's not just me. Maybe Blizzard will do something to fix it if it's something effecting everyone.

Yeah. Also sometimes I see battle.net is offline, but hearthstone hasn't told me I'm disconnected yet.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 12, 2014, 04:39:52 am
11-2, final boss's name is "winvincible"

I manage to get out Sea Giant + Faceless + Yeti + Spectral Knight + Dark Iron Dwarf, have 25 health to opponent's 15

Opponent steals Sea Giant with Mind Control Tech
Then plays Blizzard on three consecutive turns
Then finishes me off with Pyroblast

not much I can do but laugh and shrug it off after that one  :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 12, 2014, 10:48:05 am
I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

I think 2/2s are generally underrated. The thing is that there are not that many 2/3s and other than Amani, they are not picked that highly, so there's a pretty good chance your 2/2 won't go 0-for-1. If there's reasonable upside, then it's worth it. Dire Wolf is above average. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are decent.

Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Yeah, I think on average, Legendaries and Epics are worse than Commons and Rares in arena. They do tend to be more situational cards which don't fit into a random arena deck so well, whereas there are more simple solid value cards among the Commons/Rares. Really you're more interested in seeing more Fireballs, Truesilvers, DotCs, Backstabs, Sen'jin's, Crusaders, etc. rather than cards of higher rarity.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 12, 2014, 12:04:26 pm
Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
Hey, now I've had the original thing happen too! I had a Hunter deck which I thought had way too many $2 and $3 cards, but I ended up going 8-3 which is remarkably well for me (previous best was 4-3).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 12, 2014, 12:39:03 pm
I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

I think 2/2s are generally underrated. The thing is that there are not that many 2/3s and other than Amani, they are not picked that highly, so there's a pretty good chance your 2/2 won't go 0-for-1. If there's reasonable upside, then it's worth it. Dire Wolf is above average. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are decent.

What about Harvest Golem, Sunfury Protector and Feral Spirit? (I also tend to take Crocolisk over a lot of things, but I don't think that's the general case.) The problem isn't so much that they trade poorly with 2/3s, but that they also trade poorly with 1 mana minions. Gnomes, Worgen Infiltrators, Argent Squires, etc are relatively commonly drafted and look for opportunities like this to trade up. A 3/2 has the opportunity to trade up with many 3 drops, but a 2/2 doesn't have many chances to do this and has a lot of opportunities to let your opponent trade up.

That said I think Dire Wolf is great because of the extra attack it generates, it's often effectively a 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging. I'd say Pint-Sized and Mana Wraith are below average, they're good because they're 2 drops that can give you some extra benefit, but as they are rares I'll often leave them unpicked if there's a better rare there that can fit into a different part of the curve. You have to compare it to what you pick it against and that is other rares. For instance, great Arena cards that are not 2 drops like Drakes, Defender of Argus, Kodos, MC Tech and even cards that are better in constructed like Auctioneer and Violet Teacher, which I'd probably pick over it unless I was really short on 2 drops. Even if you're just talking 2 drop rares Pyromancer, Sunfury Protector and Knife Juggler are all better, partially because of their better stats, but also because their benefits are way stronger.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 12, 2014, 02:41:58 pm
^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
Sunfury and Feral are rare, and Harvest Golem is a 3-drop. Definitely 2/2s are worse than 3/2s in that if you don't play them on turn 2, the body is weak. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are good when played on turn 2. They trade with 3/2s, and have upside. They get worse later in the game, which is why they are slightly below-average cards. Dire Wolf actually is good if you can maintain something on the board, which makes it the best of the 2/2s, the only neutral one better than Raptor.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 12, 2014, 03:53:10 pm
^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
A taunting Rifleman for $2 is still pretty good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 13, 2014, 12:05:25 pm
^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
A taunting Rifleman for $2 is still pretty good.

Right, but it's not as good as Stormpike Commando for $2.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 13, 2014, 05:03:05 pm
http://arenamastery.com/5RqC

Thoughts?  I was offered so few 4s...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 13, 2014, 07:08:30 pm
I agree with all picks except

9: Violet Teacher > Sunfury
25: Core Hound > 1/4 Spell Damage guy
28: Unbound > Windspeaker
29: Lord of Arena > Voodoo Doctor
30: Maybe Sunwalker over Twilight, but I'm less sure about this one. Sunwalker is a better card but Twilight fills gaps in your curve more and is still decent.

Although you don't have that many Overload cards to make your Unbounds ridiculous, you still have enough to make them solid, and 2/4 for 3 is still a good card anyways. The deck doesn't have ways to get the board back, but there's lots of ways to maintain board presence, and you have solid early + late game. Your turns 4/5 are the rough ones but past that you're set.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 14, 2014, 12:20:06 am
Yeah, I felt I really didn't have enough spells likely to make the Teacher worth it.  Those last few picks I picked for curve... I was so dense on heavy stuff, a Sunwalker or Lord just seemed so heavy.

Windspeaker actually served pretty well a few times; I went 4-0.  Plus this is the pack that I got:

(http://www.invirtuo.cc/img/awesomepack.png)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 14, 2014, 12:33:56 am
Ancient of War is good, and so is Sunwalker. I've only seen Blessing of Champion a few times, as it's not actually that amazing. Explosive might be more useful with the Buzzard nerf is Control Hunter is ever a thing. But I've seen mid range run 1 sometimes. It's not bad as medium AoE.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 14, 2014, 12:47:46 am
Ancient of War is good, and so is Sunwalker. I've only seen Blessing of Champion a few times, as it's not actually that amazing. Explosive might be more useful with the Buzzard nerf is Control Hunter is ever a thing. But I've seen mid range run 1 sometimes. It's not bad as medium AoE.

Even if the individual cards are only good for dust, an Epic and 3 Rares is amazing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 14, 2014, 01:17:54 am
War is great, Sunwalker is great, Explosive is amazing in arena, doesn't fit in as well in Hunter constructed decks but definitely playable.

On Violet Teacher - think of it as a Sen'jin minus the taunt at minimum. 3/5 is inherently a really solid body at 4 mana (which is why Yeti is amazing)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 14, 2014, 05:27:25 pm
http://arenamastery.com/5RqC

Thoughts?  I was offered so few 4s...

1. Pyro > Imp Master. Imp Master requires board control to be good. With Shaman you want to focus on *getting* board control, not winning more when you have it. Your hero power does that. The synergy with Heal Totem is cute, but a solid 3/2 is better.
9. Sunfury vs Teacher. This one is close. Teacher is fine stats for 4, but it's not close to Sen'jin. The synergy between the high health and the taunt is what makes Sen'jin great. It's a bit more like Silvermoon guardian -- hard to remove but only 3 damage. It can 2-for-1 2-drops, but is not a spectacular tempo play. And Shaman really likes Taunt, so Sunfury is better than for other classes. With the big minions you already have, I like the Sunfury pick here.
11. Tiger > Bomber. Tiger is really good. You'd be hard-pressed to have it not trade favorably, plus it's a great buff target. The list of Neutral commons I take over Tiger is very short: Sen'jin, Yeti, Crusader, Dwarf, Ogre, Ooze, Harvest Golem, Merc, Spectral Knight, Champ, Cleric.
16. Bodyguard > Leper. Leper is really bad. Against 3 classes it will not even trade for a card. Bodyguard always at least trades for something, even if trading down, and it's a taunt, so it can force your opponent into some suboptimal plays.
25. Shieldbearer > Dalaran. You're right that your curve is too high for Core Hound, but Shieldbearer is better than Dalaran. With hardly any damage spells, it's essentially the same body, but one has taunt and costs 2 less mana. There's really not that much difference between 0 and 1 damage -- neither really kills anything.
28. Windspeaker vs Unbound. Unbound is really good since it kills 3/2s and lives, but I think you're right on this one. You have a lot of big minions and 2 Flametongues. This is the spot for Windspeaker.
29. Lord > Doc. Yeah you have a lot of high mana stuff, but it's not not worth picking a Voodoo Doctor. The problem with having too many expensive cards is that you can't play them all. But if you have and play a Voodoo Doctor, it's not much better than just not playing anything, so you didn't really gain anything over taking the expensive card.
30. Twilight vs Sunwalker. I agree with you here. You don't have the kind of deck that's going to be emptying your hand, so Twilight is like Yeti.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 15, 2014, 02:36:17 am
I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 15, 2014, 09:28:50 am
I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 15, 2014, 12:32:57 pm
I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM (http://arenamastery.com/GWJM)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 15, 2014, 05:00:43 pm
I'm not great at Rogue either, but I thought your draft looked pretty good to me. Just a few comments

#9 I might have taken the Defias Ringleader here, but it's pretty close. DRs are really good 2 drops. Gnomish Inventor is solid anyways.
#21 Probably would have taken the Farseer. You usually take some damage with your hero ability and you have a fair amount of large minions that might survive an engagement. Lots of use for 3 healing. Shiv is not great. Mostly just a way to cycle a card.
#22 On the other hand I probably would have taken Fan of Knives here. It's useful against popular cards that generate a few trash minions that are often floating around (Imp Masters, Violet Teachers, Haunted Creepers). For one more mana it's way more useful than Shiv. Flesh Eating Ghoul is kinda meh. It's not terrible. I don't really begrudge you the choice here, but I probably would have taken FoK.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 15, 2014, 07:07:20 pm
^ I took Shiv because I wanted more 2 mana cards to play over another 3 drop that I already had a copy of, and I wanted to give Ogre Magi something to do. Earthen Ring was probably better anyway.

Fan of Knives isn't better than Ghoul in a vacuum, but with so few taunts Fan was probably the better choice.

The run is 3-0 so far.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 15, 2014, 09:27:36 pm
This deck (http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/warrior#1:1;25:1;47:1;75:1;80:1;81:1;95:1;97:2;130:1;174:1;182:1;193:1;305:1;328:2;360:1;434:1;454:1;493:1;504:2;509:1;518:1;572:1;632:1;637:1;7734:1;7753:1;7751:1;) has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 15, 2014, 09:37:53 pm
This deck (http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/warrior#1:1;25:1;47:1;75:1;80:1;81:1;95:1;97:2;130:1;174:1;182:1;193:1;305:1;328:2;360:1;434:1;454:1;493:1;504:2;509:1;518:1;572:1;632:1;637:1;7734:1;7753:1;7751:1;) has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 15, 2014, 10:05:14 pm
This deck (http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/warrior#1:1;25:1;47:1;75:1;80:1;81:1;95:1;97:2;130:1;174:1;182:1;193:1;305:1;328:2;360:1;434:1;454:1;493:1;504:2;509:1;518:1;572:1;632:1;637:1;7734:1;7753:1;7751:1;) has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.

Yeah, Yeti and Spectral are both auto-picks for me. In here, I think Spiteful Smith is arguably a better card because of all my weapons, but I didn't see one to pick.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 15, 2014, 11:54:52 pm
I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM (http://arenamastery.com/GWJM)
Ended 8-3. My best rest for Rogue so far.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 17, 2014, 03:25:05 am
I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?

I've had Onyxia in an arena before, but not Nozdormu. :)

Nozdormu actually won me two of those games, as it turns out. In one case my opponent failed to attack with any of his three minions on board and I had lethal, and in the other my opponent just resigned immediately.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 17, 2014, 10:01:17 am
I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?

I've had Onyxia in an arena before, but not Nozdormu. :)

Nozdormu actually won me two of those games, as it turns out. In one case my opponent failed to attack with any of his three minions on board and I had lethal, and in the other my opponent just resigned immediately.

So 1 game really, since the second seems like a bit of an idiot :P Onyxia would for sure have done better, but I understand wanting to hear Nozdormus attack sounds and stuff. It's exciting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on September 17, 2014, 10:04:23 am
It's a tech card for the iPad matchup.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 17, 2014, 10:20:41 am
It's a tech card for the iPad matchup.

Still not a reason to pick it over Onyxia. If anything then, out of politeness you don't pick it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 17, 2014, 08:25:54 pm
The choice I'm currently looking at:  Black Knight vs. Cairne vs. VanCleef.  I don't think I've ever had three actually good legendaries available to choose from...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 17, 2014, 08:30:44 pm
Probably not VanCleef. Depends on the other cards.

Other two are top-notch, I think I'd give a slight advantage to TBK.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 17, 2014, 10:53:23 pm
I went with BK... and went 2-3.  Alas.

Highlight now of my current (3-2) Mage.  I go first against a Priest

M1: Pass
P1: Coin, Amani Berseker
M2: Swamp Ooze (should take out the Berserker, right?)
P2: PW:S, PW:S, kill Ooze.

With no taunts in hand, I couldn't kill the thing until I topdecked a FB... by which point I was already hosed.  Just amazing.

Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 17, 2014, 11:27:35 pm
Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.
To be fair, that is usually when Warlocks play Mountain Giant in constructed.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 18, 2014, 12:08:16 am
I went with BK... and went 2-3.  Alas.

Highlight now of my current (3-2) Mage.  I go first against a Priest

M1: Pass
P1: Coin, Amani Berseker
M2: Swamp Ooze (should take out the Berserker, right?)
P2: PW:S, PW:S, kill Ooze.

With no taunts in hand, I couldn't kill the thing until I topdecked a FB... by which point I was already hosed.  Just amazing.

Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.

I can commiserate, I've had a Deathlord pull an opponent's Ragnaros in Arena. :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 18, 2014, 12:45:06 am
It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 18, 2014, 01:03:58 am
It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.

The best is Preist vs. Priest where you fatigue them with their Northshires.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 18, 2014, 01:24:38 am
I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM (http://arenamastery.com/GWJM)

6. Panda > Magi. Panda is really good, one of the best 2-drops. It's good on turn 2, and unlike many other 2-drops, it can create some great value plays late game. Magi is meh.
10. BGH > Faceless imo, but it's close. Neither has that many great targets in arena, but are never really bad. But I think BGH is a blowout more often and saves you against the stuff you can otherwise never deal with in arena.
11. Speaking of which, Mercenary = great
13. Mad Sci > Dancing Swords, maybe. None of these are too good, but I really don't like Dancing Swords...
21. Farseer > Shiv. It's a good card vs a bad one. There's really no considerations that can change this.
26. Wolfrider > Grizzly, slightly. Maybe with the number of Ringleaders you have, you want the cheap taunt though...
27. Crusader > Merc
28. Crusader > Champ. Seriously, it's the third best neutral common imo behind only Sen'jin and Yeti. It's so hard to not get value out of it. Champ needs to go to turn 7, and Merc has some drawbacks, but there are very few things that deal well with Crusader (Among commons, I think it's just Bomber, Arcane Missiles, and Earth Shock).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 18, 2014, 01:25:53 am
This deck (http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/warrior#1:1;25:1;47:1;75:1;80:1;81:1;95:1;97:2;130:1;174:1;182:1;193:1;305:1;328:2;360:1;434:1;454:1;493:1;504:2;509:1;518:1;572:1;632:1;637:1;7734:1;7753:1;7751:1;) has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.

Spectral is great for tempo decks. If you have board advantage, he's nearly unremovable.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 18, 2014, 01:29:32 am
The choice I'm currently looking at:  Black Knight vs. Cairne vs. VanCleef.  I don't think I've ever had three actually good legendaries available to choose from...

I think it has to be Cairne. Black Knight is a bit situational, and Van Cleef doesn't do the amazing things he does in constructed. He's usually just a 4/4 for 3 and not on turn 3 unless you Backstab. Good but not great.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 18, 2014, 09:43:37 am
I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM (http://arenamastery.com/GWJM)

6. Panda > Magi. Panda is really good, one of the best 2-drops. It's good on turn 2, and unlike many other 2-drops, it can create some great value plays late game. Magi is meh.
10. BGH > Faceless imo, but it's close. Neither has that many great targets in arena, but are never really bad. But I think BGH is a blowout more often and saves you against the stuff you can otherwise never deal with in arena.
11. Speaking of which, Mercenary = great
13. Mad Sci > Dancing Swords, maybe. None of these are too good, but I really don't like Dancing Swords...
21. Farseer > Shiv. It's a good card vs a bad one. There's really no considerations that can change this.
26. Wolfrider > Grizzly, slightly. Maybe with the number of Ringleaders you have, you want the cheap taunt though...
27. Crusader > Merc
28. Crusader > Champ. Seriously, it's the third best neutral common imo behind only Sen'jin and Yeti. It's so hard to not get value out of it. Champ needs to go to turn 7, and Merc has some drawbacks, but there are very few things that deal well with Crusader (Among commons, I think it's just Bomber, Arcane Missiles, and Earth Shock).
Thanks for the analysis. Had I picked Mercenary I over Farseer, I would have been more comfortable picking crusader over Merc. I picked Champion > crusader because I was worries I had too few late game cards. I feel late game is important to consider in Arena.

But yeah, Crusader is one of my favourite neutral commons.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 18, 2014, 11:35:32 am
Id Pick champion over crusader there as well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 20, 2014, 03:51:59 am
It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.

It keeps happening, it just happened for the 3rd time, 2nd time in this arena run. What is going on.

Edit: Ended 8-3 against a Paladin that managed to stabilize just in time, thanks to a 4/12 Malygos body I couldn't kill. (Well, technically I could after he dropped Stormwind Champion, but killing that was more important.) Pack gave me Baron Geddon, it's all good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 23, 2014, 11:01:18 pm
http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on September 27, 2014, 04:08:20 pm
http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...

Ping doesn't trigger Ice Barrier...

Deathlord is a hard card to evaluate because of its strange and uncertain effect on tempo. It can often come out even on cards, but the tempo effect really depends on the board state. If you have other minions that the Deathlord is protecting, it can give you a great amount of initiative in choosing trades, and stay up for multiple turns. In that case, it can buy you more than the 2 mana worth of tempo its stats might suggest (2/8 taunt would be a (bad) 5-drop). But when it dies you immediately give back a little more than 3, maybe 3.5 mana of tempo on average -- the average value of a minion omitting battlecry (though sometimes it's an Ironbark or Giant...). Really the important thing is the delay before it dies. You can't play it if they can kill it the turn it comes out, or it's really bad, so you really want a deck that can gain an early tempo advantage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 27, 2014, 04:56:54 pm
http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...

Ping doesn't trigger Ice Barrier...

It does if you're a Rogue or Druid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on September 27, 2014, 06:32:28 pm
It also does if Ice Barrier is actually Ice Block.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 27, 2014, 10:40:50 pm
I'm still in shock from this one.  Playing a Priest with an OK draft.  Up against a druid.

Druid plays Nourish for crystals on T5.  Then Innervate--Deathwing on T6.

I manage to get DW down to ~4 HP by sacrificing minions... and he plays Young Brewmaster on DW on T9.

I draw and play Mana Wraith.  OK, theoretically safe from Deathwing until the Wraith dies... but I'm at 6 health after healing.

Starfire to the face.  Next turn... Starfire to the face.

Holy.  Fuck.

Edit:  You know, I say "OK" draft, and then I realize I got offered exactly zero PW:S, SW:P or SW:D the whole draft.  So maybe it wasn't so hot.

(I went 1-3)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on September 29, 2014, 07:04:37 pm
So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 29, 2014, 07:16:54 pm
So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 29, 2014, 09:45:04 pm
So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).

9 here. I seriously think that fireball is not a winning factor in a good raft. I've had multiple decks with enough fireballs and Flamestrikes and still lose. My last mage draft I lost to players over investing in a board, and I would have won had I drawn a single flamestrike (I had 2).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 30, 2014, 01:16:56 am
So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).

9 here. I seriously think that fireball is not a winning factor in a good raft. I've had multiple decks with enough fireballs and Flamestrikes and still lose. My last mage draft I lost to players over investing in a board, and I would have won had I drawn a single flamestrike (I had 2).

My Paladin arenas have been much better than my Mage arenas on average, I think because the Paladin 4 cost cards are almost all 2 for-1s. Truesilver = 2 dead things. Hammer = 3 Damage + 1 Card back so you trade 1-for-0. Consecrate = general board clear. Blessing isn't always a 2 for 1, but often has potential to be. For Mage, if you have to play your Fireball or Poly turn 4, you're still only trading 1 for 1. They're still excellent cards mind you - your 4 mana can kill practically anything, but it's a mana advantage, not a card advantage. Stuff like Water Elemental is great, to the point where I almost prefer it over Fireball.

Mage is ridiculous if you can get to an even board state, because your spells and hero power are great at efficiently shutting down your opponent's board. Otherwise, you're relying on the Flamestrike. Whereas with Paladin, you can't kill big things as easily, but for everything else you can gain enough card advantage that it doesn't matter, while still keeping enough tempo to win early as well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on September 30, 2014, 01:17:10 am
My record is also still 10.  I have been doing worse lately, probably through not actually putting as much thought into playing as perhaps I ought to.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 30, 2014, 04:43:07 am
Holy shit, what a draft. (http://arenamastery.com/1Yca) I actually started tearing up in laughter during the string of picks from 10-15.

Full deck (Not pictured: 1x Earth Shock):
(http://i.imgur.com/qv0a7xE.png)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 01, 2014, 09:32:51 am
My Paladin arenas have been much better than my Mage arenas on average, I think because the Paladin 4 cost cards are almost all 2 for-1s. Truesilver = 2 dead things. Hammer = 3 Damage + 1 Card back so you trade 1-for-0. Consecrate = general board clear. Blessing isn't always a 2 for 1, but often has potential to be. For Mage, if you have to play your Fireball or Poly turn 4, you're still only trading 1 for 1. They're still excellent cards mind you - your 4 mana can kill practically anything, but it's a mana advantage, not a card advantage. Stuff like Water Elemental is great, to the point where I almost prefer it over Fireball.

Mage is ridiculous if you can get to an even board state, because your spells and hero power are great at efficiently shutting down your opponent's board. Otherwise, you're relying on the Flamestrike. Whereas with Paladin, you can't kill big things as easily, but for everything else you can gain enough card advantage that it doesn't matter, while still keeping enough tempo to win early as well.

I would say Paladin relies on board control much more than Mage does. You need some minion on the board to get value from Argent Protector or Blessing of Kings or Blessing of Might or Avenge or hero power. Paladin is all about getting board control from low drops, or turn 4 swings (Truesilver), and then snowballing. If you lose board control, you can find yourself in more trouble than you would be with Mage. You can't play your blessings or put a divine shield on anything. And Hammer really isn't that great because it's only really able to kill 2-drops, which is bad for tempo, so it's not something you want to do when behind on the board.

Mage losing on the board can use spells and hero power to kill minions or just go yolo for the face. It's true that there aren't that many sources of card advantage for Mage, but that just means that if you don't draft a ton of damage spells to go aggro, you need to draft big guys more highly. For example, given the choice between Grizzly and War Golem, Paladin takes the Grizzly for the earlier board control and Mage takes the War Golem for late game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 04, 2014, 09:14:47 pm
Easiest 12 wins of my life: http://arenamastery.com/Sobb

Good old Consecration.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 06, 2014, 11:29:58 pm
That moment when you get Sylvanas and Ragnaros in your Warlock draft.

This deck is actually pretty solid, the curve is very well balanced. Peaks at 3, a little fewer 4s, then just Sylvanas + Rag at the high end, which lets me use hero power a lot.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 07, 2014, 03:16:14 am
I just pulled off Shadow Madness -> Youthful Brewmaster in arena o_o

On a Sen'jin Shieldmasta, no less
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 08, 2014, 09:17:25 pm
I did it. 12 wins. Underwhelming golden cards (Leper Gnome and Upgrade), but 265 gold isn't too bad.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 09, 2014, 12:14:42 am
Gratz.
Any gold rare is a good result, imo. It's at least 100 dust, which at some point is better than a pack. You used to get them half the time for 9 wins but now it seems they show up much less frequently. It still bothers me that it's possible to get non-gold commons on 12 win runs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 09, 2014, 11:33:46 am
Gratz.
Any gold rare is a good result, imo. It's at least 100 dust, which at some point is better than a pack. You used to get them half the time for 9 wins but now it seems they show up much less frequently. It still bothers me that it's possible to get non-gold commons on 12 win runs.
According to the wiki (http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Arena) for hearthstone arena, non-gold commons are not supposed to be a possible 12-win arena reward. At worst you get a golden common. Are you sure you've seen a golden common given at 12 wins recently?

I haven't reached 12 wins yet. My record is still 11 wins with a Paladin deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 09, 2014, 12:27:35 pm
Gold common at 12 wins can still happen, non-gold common shouldn't. It's in an official patch note that they took out non-gold common rewards at 12 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 10, 2014, 12:39:12 am
Oh I didn't see that patch note. For sure I have received a non-gold common for 12 wins, but it was a while ago.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 11, 2014, 02:12:07 am
Holy crap, apparently 2 wins in arena is Zoo Central. Just played these two consecutive opponents:

T1: Coin, Knife Juggler
T2: Undertaker, Flame Imp
T3: Harvest Golem
T4: Demonfire his Flame Imp to kill my Violet Teacher, tap
T5: Dire Wolf Alpha, kill me

T1: Coin, Worgen Infiltrator, Blood Imp
T2: Echoing Ooze, Soulfire, the Blood Imp procs on the Ooze so he has two 1/3s
T3: Argent Squire, tap, Voodoo Doctor
T4: Soulfire with empty hand, tap

Fortunately by T5 I had a Blood Imp of my own and a Fen Creeper out, so I was able to make the comeback. But still, damn. Flashbacks to the constructed meta a few months ago.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 11, 2014, 07:09:57 am
Holy crap, apparently 2 wins in arena is Zoo Central. Just played these two consecutive opponents:

T1: Coin, Knife Juggler
T2: Undertaker, Flame Imp
T3: Harvest Golem
T4: Demonfire his Flame Imp to kill my Violet Teacher, tap
T5: Dire Wolf Alpha, kill me

T1: Coin, Worgen Infiltrator, Blood Imp
T2: Echoing Ooze, Soulfire, the Blood Imp procs on the Ooze so he has two 1/3s
T3: Argent Squire, tap, Voodoo Doctor
T4: Soulfire with empty hand, tap

Fortunately by T5 I had a Blood Imp of my own and a Fen Creeper out, so I was able to make the comeback. But still, damn. Flashbacks to the constructed meta a few months ago.

Personally I have never been impressed with Warlock in arena. My runs have always been bad, and mostly so have my opponents' decks unless they get a draft as you talked about here that is very much like a real zoo deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 12, 2014, 12:19:01 am
Hrm, another 11-3 run. I can't get past that 11-win hump. I was a Shaman this time tough. I got 3 Southsea Deckhands in the pack ???
http://arenamastery.com/f5NI (http://arenamastery.com/f5NI).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 12, 2014, 11:52:55 pm
Just had a terrible 0-3 run as a Shaman...only one elemental, no spirit wolves, no shocks...Lame.

Then, my pack had a rare (Mind Control Tech), a golden rare (Crazed Alchemist), and a Leeroy.

So that's nice.  :)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on October 13, 2014, 11:59:52 am
My current Paladin run deck -- right now I'm at 5-1 with it.

I'm just extremely lucky to have gotten this, right?  Tirion, 4 Guardian of Kings', 2 Consecrates, 2 swords etc?  Obviously I need to survive to late game.  I've won a few of these games after dropping to less than 5 health and then dropping a Guardian of Kings turn after turn.

Thoughts?  I'll prob screw this up, but let's see how it goes =)

1 Light's Justice
1 Zombie Chow
2 Acidic Swamp Ooze x2
2 Bluegill Warrior
2 Faerie Dragon
2 Ironbeak Owl
2 Mad Bomber
3 Aldor Peacekeeper
3 Earthen Ring Farseer
3 Harvest Golem
4 Truesilver Champion x2
4 Blessing of Kings
4 Consecration x2
4 Ancient Brewmaster
4 Dark Iron Dwarf
4 Defender of Argus
5 Frostwolf Warlord
5 Sludge Belcher
5 Spectral Knight
5 Spiteful Smith
6 Argent Commander
6 Boulderfist Ogre
7 Guardian of Kings x4
8 Tirion Fordring
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on October 13, 2014, 12:47:15 pm
Another 12-win run: http://arenamastery.com/1PkG  This one is sandwiched in between a 0-3 and a 1-3, amusingly.

Final game: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/c/5278437
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 13, 2014, 06:18:52 pm
My current Paladin run deck -- right now I'm at 5-1 with it.

I'm just extremely lucky to have gotten this, right?  Tirion, 4 Guardian of Kings', 2 Consecrates, 2 swords etc?  Obviously I need to survive to late game.  I've won a few of these games after dropping to less than 5 health and then dropping a Guardian of Kings turn after turn.

Thoughts?  I'll prob screw this up, but let's see how it goes =)

<list>

Curve looks a little high to me. You don't really want that many Guardian of Kings since they're not so great and a hand full of them is bad news pre-turn 7. But you do have enough 2-drops, Swords, and Consecrates to probably survive until that point a lot of the time at which I guess the spam heal work out...?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 13, 2014, 09:20:46 pm
My current Paladin run deck -- right now I'm at 5-1 with it.

I'm just extremely lucky to have gotten this, right?  Tirion, 4 Guardian of Kings', 2 Consecrates, 2 swords etc?  Obviously I need to survive to late game.  I've won a few of these games after dropping to less than 5 health and then dropping a Guardian of Kings turn after turn.

Thoughts?  I'll prob screw this up, but let's see how it goes =)

<list>

Curve looks a little high to me. You don't really want that many Guardian of Kings since they're not so great and a hand full of them is bad news pre-turn 7. But you do have enough 2-drops, Swords, and Consecrates to probably survive until that point a lot of the time at which I guess the spam heal work out...?

Everything he has of 5 or less is really strong though. I don't see many games where he doesn't make it to his high curve cards. Really good draft.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 13, 2014, 10:06:31 pm
^The way is to draw a hand full of the high mana cards. Like the deck is probably better if you replace one Guardian of Kings with a Novice Engineer. But yeah, most likely it will go well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on October 14, 2014, 10:03:51 am
Yeah, it's not like Shaman or Rogue where you can fall behind on the board but quickly flip it.  As a Paladin, if you have a bad early draw, don't draw your Consecrate/Truesilver, you have a real problem recovering the board.

That being said it's still a very strong Paladin deck.  Replace one or two Guardian of Kings with Argent Protector and it's nigh-unstoppable.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on October 14, 2014, 12:56:59 pm
Yeah, it's not like Shaman or Rogue where you can fall behind on the board but quickly flip it.  As a Paladin, if you have a bad early draw, don't draw your Consecrate/Truesilver, you have a real problem recovering the board.

That being said it's still a very strong Paladin deck.  Replace one or two Guardian of Kings with Argent Protector and it's nigh-unstoppable.

So, it was unstoppable!  Or nearly so... I went 11-3, my highest by far!  The three losses were games where I saw neither Consecrate nor Truesilver and they had very good early games.

The Guardian spam became comical at times, but always worked out once I got to turn 7.  Tirion is a boss in Arena, btw, where silences and pure removal ("Destroy a minion") is much less common.

My highest result is 5 wins -- except that one time when I got 8 wins -- and except this time where I got 11 wins.  So, while it is a new PR for me, it is most likely due to the draft and not really so much my skill.  5 seems to be a bit of a ceiling for me.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 14, 2014, 01:36:49 pm
Yeah it's a pretty fortunate draft, but don't sell yourself short. You're probably getting better. Getting twice the wins of your "ceiling" suggests it's not really a ceiling.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on October 14, 2014, 02:18:20 pm
So, I've drafted this (Last card, slightly out of view, is Stormwind Champion):
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2w5u1hv.png)

.. Yeah. I forced Mirror Images once I got 3 Wyrms. Also Duplicates to go with MS. Also of note is Artonidas, of course.


Thoughts? Predictions?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 14, 2014, 03:05:24 pm
3 Mana Wyrms + 11 spells = so much win.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on October 14, 2014, 03:28:08 pm
I was going to comment that Duplicate + Mirror Image is an anti-combo, but it's actually not so bad if the Duplicate is pulled from Mad Scientist's deathrattle. The Mirror Images are 0 mana each, so it makes MS's deathrattle like a free non-spell Mirror Image cast, which is pretty good on a 2 mana 2/2.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on October 14, 2014, 03:33:37 pm
MS dying and than dropping Sunwalker is pretty sick too. Only one did Duplicate trigger on MI. I once duplicated Antonidas but lost that one.
I ended up 6-3, which I am not so happy about, I hoped for 8 wins.
I drew Flamestrike only once I think. I didn't get much use of Violet Teacher either.
Two games I won where I've opened double Manawurm, than Double Mirror Image.  Images are decent with Stormwind too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 15, 2014, 03:28:41 pm
That deck is definitely reliant on getting Mana Wyrms and Mirror Images out early, as you only have two 2-drops and two 3-drops, and Mad Scientist isn't a good turn 2 play. I think it could do better than 6 wins, though... so long as you either get the Mana Wyrms out or survive until turn 6, you should be in a good position.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on October 15, 2014, 04:22:33 pm
I got another 11 win run!  This time with a very mid-game focused Shaman deck.  Pretty crazy, I didn't expect it to do well.  3 hexes though...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on October 16, 2014, 01:20:51 am
http://arenamastery.com/MRLX

Well, this sure looked like a good draft: two Fireballs, two Flamestrikes, two Frostbolts, two Mana Wyrms.  Instead, 2-3.  Two of the losses were to Tirion and KT; the Mage loss was likely just poor play on my part.

But as a consolation prize, the rare I got in my pack was shitty too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 17, 2014, 02:20:55 am
Just killed my Priest opponent on turn 5. Coin Amani Berserker into Cruel Taskmaster got me about 60% of the way there, a couple weapons did the rest. Too easy.

I don't think he realized he could have healed my Berserker...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 17, 2014, 10:33:53 am
Just killed my Priest opponent on turn 5. Coin Amani Berserker into Cruel Taskmaster got me about 60% of the way there, a couple weapons did the rest. Too easy.

I don't think he realized he could have healed my Berserker...

Would have still been a 4/3, but yeah, people forget that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on October 17, 2014, 04:31:44 pm
Just went 8/3 in Arena which is a new personal best. Paladin deck with 3x Guardians, 2x Truesilver, a Far Seer and solid support with Chillwind and Spectral Knight. Had several strong 2 drops as well, you know the 3/2 kind. The decks that did beat me were seemingly unstoppable. I can't tell if i got lucky drafts, my drafting skills have improved or gameplay overall improved; though I suspect some combination of all 3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on October 18, 2014, 10:50:56 pm
just made about the worst draft I've ever made...let me know if there was a way to salvage it.

possibly my large amount of lightning bolts + unbound elementals will work out?  No hexes, virtually no 2's (i really regret passing up the river croc, cuz i'm not too keen on taking a mad scientist as a shaman)

http://arenamastery.com/nEnF
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Twistedarcher on October 18, 2014, 11:06:52 pm
I don't think the deck's actually that bad. Biggest problem is that you don't have very many big guys, I would have taken the war golem and the frost elemental probably. Different picks I would have considered:

Pick #6 - Silvermoon Guardian (I don't really care for Gargoyle)
PIck #8 - War Golem
Pick #14 - Frost Elemental
Pick #19 - Ogre Magi -- lacking in bodies and it helps all your spells
Pick #22 - Novice Engineer (Everytime I see haunted creeper in arena it just doesn't seem useful)
Pick #30 - Feral Spirit (seriously an amazing card, especially with your unbound elementals, I'd almost never pass it up)

Not having 2s is fine, since you have all the lightning bolts to get you thru early game, but you're not really stalling to all that much unfortunately
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on October 18, 2014, 11:14:12 pm
I mean, yeah...war golem...I'd definitely take him over Ironforge if it's one of my picks >20...but pick #8?

#14 I still had hopes of Fire Elementals, and I didn't want to overburden the 6-slot with 2 frost elementals and a Sunwalker.

#19 Probably agree, but I was freaking out about having ZERO 2-drops.

#30.  I have zero hard removal, I could try to out-aggro with another feral spirit...probably a strong idea, but I was really sad about not having any hexes.  So i got big-spell instead. (AAANND, this also is overload).

I think my only win condition is Unbound Elementals.....that's probably gonna bite me.


ALSO, I was offered Totemic Might 6 times....has anybody EVER picked that.  Is there even a constructed deck that uses it??
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 18, 2014, 11:40:02 pm
I don't think your deck is that bad. Okay, you don't have Lightning Storm, and that's sad. But you have 4 Bolts and 3 Unbounds. Your curve is pretty low, a little lower than you'd like, but that's okay because you have lots of good Overload cards. Although more 4s and 2s would be nicer, the difference between a 2 drop and a 3 drop is pretty small, and you have enough overload that 4 drops are a bit less important (it's less likely you'll actually have 4 mana on turn 4)

I do think Feral Spirit > Lava Burst for last pick, comboes better with Bloodlust and Dire Wolf. I also think War Golem > Ironforge Rifleman, I've never liked Rifleman that much because it's not really a 3 drop. It's a card that costs 3 which you play on something like turn 5, because it trades very badly by itself. It's still a playable deck, I'm not sure if it'll be able to deal with decks with lots of board clear, but anyone else is okay.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 19, 2014, 11:06:40 pm
2: Croc > Bloodlust. Bloodlust is okay, but not great. You for sure don't want 2, and you're plenty okay with 2+ Crocs, so early on I'm taking Croc.
6: Silvermoon > Garg. I guess Garg is okay with Shaman cuz you are likely to have more buffs, but it's really not good.
8: War Golem > Rifleman, almost any time. Rifleman is BAD, and War Golem is okay.
11: Mad Sci > Voodoo. Yeah 2/2 is not great, but it's okay. Trades with 3/2s.
14: I agree with Lightning Bolt.
19: I agree with Dire Wolf.
22: I agree with Creeper. It's generally good in Shaman (though you don't actually have any buffs other than one Bloodlust).
30: Feral > Lava Burst. Same mana cost, but Feral does more for you. I don't know how this solves a "no hard removal" problem. It's just another (bigger) Lightning Bolt. It doesn't do that much more than Lightning Bolt.

Overall your deck isn't the worst. You have a ton of Lightning Bolts, a couple decent 1-drops, and an Axe to help with the lack of 2-drops.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2014, 02:32:54 pm
I finally got around to entering a draft on arena mastery. http://arenamastery.com/QbhP
Thoughts? This isn't an amazing draft, but I'm just looking for some feedback for improvement purposes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2014, 02:34:09 pm
Re: #24
I kinda regret not taking Spectral Knight or Guardian instead of Blessing, but I wanted to be able to do some more "surprise!" damage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on October 20, 2014, 02:44:49 pm
#2: Oh man that is a horrible set
#5: I would absolutely take Zombie Chow over Kobold
#6: Don't know what your third pick was but I guess I'd agree with Kobold over Wolfrider
#16: Possibly Haunted Creeper over Brewmaster given how crappy your 2 drops are
#17: Definitely AoP over Redemption
#24: I think Spectral Knight is probably the best bet for you

In general you seem to really hate Light's Justice.  I think it's not that bad a card if you use it judiciously.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2014, 02:56:52 pm
#2: Oh man that is a horrible set
#5: I would absolutely take Zombie Chow over Kobold
#6: Don't know what your third pick was but I guess I'd agree with Kobold over Wolfrider
#16: Possibly Haunted Creeper over Brewmaster given how crappy your 2 drops are
#17: Definitely AoP over Redemption
#24: I think Spectral Knight is probably the best bet for you

In general you seem to really hate Light's Justice.  I think it's not that bad a card if you use it judiciously.

#2
I know right. There were some other really terrible sets (#13 and #19 were also pretty bad).
#5, #6
I thought about #5 a lot, I like Zombie chow, but I figured I already had a Consecrate and wanted the possible combo (I obviously didn't know I would immediately get the chance to get the second one, which I took over the Wolfrider for exactly the same reason.)
#16
At that point in the draft my late game was really bad. In hindsight the Haunted Creeper might have been the better pick.
#17
I don't like AoP except in Priest/Mage, but yeah maybe it was better than Redemption.

I don't actually hate Light's Justice, but I do consider it below average. Though it kept getting thrown at me there were no situations where I thought it was worth taking.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 20, 2014, 03:22:06 pm
Lights Justice is not really worth taking. It's basically about as good as Rogue hero power.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on October 20, 2014, 03:32:56 pm
Lights Justice is not really worth taking. It's basically about as good as Rogue hero power.

It's a very good tempo card.  It's twice as good as the Rogue hero power for half the mana on an otherwise-pingless class.  You're basically spending 1 mana for 4 pings. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 20, 2014, 03:34:59 pm
Light's Justice is fine, but I can't see myself taking it over any of the picks it showed up with. Having that 1 extra damage can actually help a lot.

On pick 10 I think I like Alexstraza more than Leeroy, I've never had good experiences with Leeroy in arena. Usually you use it as a Fireball, except it leaves behind two 1/1s and now it even costs 5. Alexstraza is at worst an 8/8, it's a rare situation where you can't use the battlecry to help yourself. If you're above 15 and the opponent is below 15, you're probably in a winning position anyways.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Hydrad on October 20, 2014, 03:37:16 pm
Lights Justice is not really worth taking. It's basically about as good as Rogue hero power.

It's a very good tempo card.  It's twice as good as the Rogue hero power for half the mana on an otherwise-pingless class.  You're basically spending 1 mana for 4 pings.

except it costs a card. I don't like using a card for something like that. Also if its around for 4 turns I'm going to be hoping I get a truesilver or something on turn 4 instead. So I usually don't get to use all 4 shots.

Also the rogue power has things like deadly poison to make their hero power stronger. If it was just a 1/2 barely anyone would use It I think.

Still its not the worst card. But there arn't many times I take it over other things
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theory on October 20, 2014, 03:49:48 pm
I agree that I probably wouldn't have taken it over any of these, and obviously Truesilver is preferable, but you don't always have Truesilver on T4.  Light's Justice lets you deal with minions that Paladin otherwise has no way of dealing with effectively outside Consecration: Loot Hoarder, Scarlet Crusader, Sunwalker, etc.  A T1 Light's Justice, just holding onto the charges, is a hugely advantageous tempo play even if you do draw a Truesilver later on.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on October 20, 2014, 07:37:45 pm
Light Justice is completely fine in Arena, it does it job of finishing off minions or killing 2/1s quite effectively (for 1 mana).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 20, 2014, 11:34:42 pm
Light's justice is good value for the main, and it's not a sin to replace it with Truesilver prematurely if needed.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on October 21, 2014, 08:23:08 pm
Finally got a 12-win. Deck was pretty sick:

(http://i60.tinypic.com/im06rk.png)


Quite often I ended the game with double Fireball, and I didn't have to be careful saving polymoprhs as I had so many.
Got a pack, ~240 gold, Golden Flame Imp and Golden Feral Spirit.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 21, 2014, 08:46:35 pm
I finally got around to entering a draft on arena mastery. http://arenamastery.com/QbhP
Thoughts? This isn't an amazing draft, but I'm just looking for some feedback for improvement purposes.

2: I'd definitely take Hand of Pro. It's situational, but it can be good. Essentially an extra copy of a minion from your board provided you would have been able to trade it. That's worth a card, and more than 1 mana.
5: Zombie >> Kobold
6: Wolfrider > Kobold. If you had multiple consecrations or something then maybe...
15: I think Mad Bomber > Guardian. I've heard people say they don't like Bomber in Pally because it will kill their tokens, but I don't buy that. It's one of the best 2-drops, and if you have a bunch of tokens out, just don't play it...
17: Aco >> Redemption
20: 2/3 of the way through the draft and only 1 buff (Cleric). Imp Master is not looking great. Either of the other 2 are better.
29: Cobra > Blademaster for anyone but Priest. Unless you're going face, it's infinity/3 vs 4/3...


Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 21, 2014, 09:16:11 pm
Cobra doesn't go through Divine Shield. So not exactly infinity/3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on October 21, 2014, 09:31:58 pm
Cobra doesn't go through Divine Shield. So not exactly infinity/3.

Well, 1000000000/3 doesn't go through Divine Shield either. So yeah, kinda exactly infinity/3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 22, 2014, 03:47:37 am
I finally got around to entering a draft on arena mastery. http://arenamastery.com/QbhP
Thoughts? This isn't an amazing draft, but I'm just looking for some feedback for improvement purposes.
20: 2/3 of the way through the draft and only 1 buff (Cleric). Imp Master is not looking great. Either of the other 2 are better.
I think you are underrating Imp Master and wildly overrating Questing Adventurer. Twilight Drake is probably the right pick, since he doesn't have any real 4-drops, but there are very few draft situations in which I would take Questing Adventurer over Imp Master.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 22, 2014, 01:53:58 pm
The difference between Imp Master and Adventurer is that Imp Master is much better on turn 3, and Adventurer is better later. On a small amount of mana, your opponent can't clear Imp Master very easily, but later on the tokens are moderately useless if you can't buff them. Adventurer is generally fine all the time. If you play it with another card, it's at least a 3/3 for 3, no problem. Turn 3 it's 2/2 until your next turn, so it can die to their 2/3 or something, so it has that downside, but usually it's not a problem and acts like a 3/3 by the time it gets to attack.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 22, 2014, 09:01:45 pm
So I ended up going 6-3 with that Paladin deck. Pretty good for it's composition. Leeroy was actually pretty useful (especially if you could Consecrecation away the extra minions you could play him without having to win immediately). 125 gold and a Pit Lord, an Upgrade, +15 dust in the pack.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on October 25, 2014, 02:18:08 pm
Just went 11-3 with a Priest deck. Is there any way to recover the decklist now that I've already finished?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on October 25, 2014, 02:33:33 pm
^Not once you've clicked the key, except by memory.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 27, 2014, 12:09:18 am
First time with arena mastery. Not the most amazing draft (very few spells) but I'm not disappointed by any means.

http://arenamastery.com/sZUK

Edit: 2-2 so far. Flows nicely when it's ahead, has almost no ways to get back into it when behind, by the time the Fire Elementals kick in I'm often too low on health.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 27, 2014, 01:02:43 am
First time with arena mastery. Not the most amazing draft (very few spells) but I'm not disappointed by any means.

http://arenamastery.com/sZUK

Edit: 2-2 so far. Flows nicely when it's ahead, has almost no ways to get back into it when behind, by the time the Fire Elementals kick in I'm often too low on health.

I'd have gone with Egg over the coldlight oracle. I know you had no real ways to activate, but there's a good chance you get flametongue as well as other buff minions. Also fire elementals can activate and its AoE protection for your totems. Coldlight is often better for your opponent.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 01, 2014, 12:05:52 pm
I just played a druid in arena at the 0-0 mark that went Innervate->hero power turn 1. I also countered a naturalize with spellbender in the same game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 03, 2014, 10:53:00 am
Pretty pleased with this draft so far:
http://arenamastery.com/Il2X
(the draft was actually interrupted and started again, I didn't last draft a far seer, but I can't remember what I was picking that against and put it in last)

Right now it's 2-0.

Edit: 3-0 but off to work now.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 04, 2014, 12:05:14 pm
Pretty pleased with this draft so far:
http://arenamastery.com/Il2X
(the draft was actually interrupted and started again, I didn't last draft a far seer, but I can't remember what I was picking that against and put it in last)

Right now it's 2-0.

Edit: 3-0 but off to work now.

Ended up going 7-3 which I feel very good about. I think I could have maybe won one of the games I lost, but the other two I was thoroughly thumped in. Overall this I think shows how frigging valuable weapons are in arena. (This deck had 5 + an upgrade). That and Frothing Berserkers and Earthen Ring Far Seers are not only really good, but also really good together. I won at least 4 games on the backs of Frothing Berserkers (often kept alive by well timed Far Seers).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 07, 2014, 02:48:21 am
Just got 11-3 :( So close to be defeated by the final boss. Still the best I've ever done.

http://arenamastery.com/4Ou5

The last game was a total stomp everything just worked out for my opponent. I'd summon a healing totem he'd play a northshire cleric. I'd play a Gnomish Inventor with a totem out and he'd Kodo the inventor. Sighhhh. Still really really good run, and definitely the best draft I've ever had. I should have had another shot at the last game, but I misplayed my 11th game pretty badly. Two big mistakes that let my opponent get free attacks on me. So I didn't totally deserve to go all the way.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 09, 2014, 07:56:55 pm
Wooh! I just made it into the 12-win club, and with a Priest of all classes.

http://arenamastery.com/HrsI (http://arenamastery.com/HrsI)

Overall, I was really happy with the draft. The final deck was a almost purely value-based and very similar to the Priest decks you find in constructed. I didn't get anything special in the 2 packs I won.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on November 10, 2014, 09:05:48 pm
Wow, sick draft. I think I'd take the second Mind Control over War Golem, since you had some decent lategame minions already, but aside from that and the Weblord every one of your picks was solidly above average.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 10, 2014, 09:36:38 pm
Wow, sick draft. I think I'd take the second Mind Control over War Golem, since you had some decent lategame minions already, but aside from that and the Weblord every one of your picks was solidly above average.
Thinking about the draft, I think it was as close as you can get to a perfect draft. The Weblord wasn't great but it wasn't disastrous either. However, the War Golem turned out to be very effective. I figured taking the second Mind Control would make it harder to get an advantage before turn 10, but it was a close decision and I would have taken it over something worse than War Golem.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 10, 2014, 09:49:09 pm
Wow, sick draft. I think I'd take the second Mind Control over War Golem, since you had some decent lategame minions already, but aside from that and the Weblord every one of your picks was solidly above average.
Thinking about the draft, I think it was as close as you can get to a perfect draft. The Weblord wasn't great but it wasn't disastrous either. However, the War Golem turned out to be very effective. I figured taking the second Mind Control would make it harder to get an advantage before turn 10, but it was a close decision and I would have taken it over something worse than War Golem.

More questionable was Zombie Chow > Silver Hand Knight at #4, Thoughtsteal > Dark Iron Dwarf & SW:Death at #13, and Shadow Madness > Azure & Auchenai at #20.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 10, 2014, 11:09:40 pm
Thoughtsteal isn't that good in arena as you mostly get medium strength minions. SW:D Is great as is DID. I think under most cases you take those two over thoughtsteal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 22, 2014, 01:46:20 pm
I did it! I finally made it into the 12 win club!

http://arenamastery.com/arena.php?arena=413745

I had an okay draft, I didn't think it would make it to 12, but the strength of this deck is that it is really good at playing to curve it turns out. Most games were won by very efficient mana usage (that and Hunter's ability putting pressure on in the end game). The last pick Mana Wraith turned out to be the right decision and actually won me early game tempo a few times which let me win. I don't remember who posted about it, but I want to thank them because I never would have picked it over a Defender of Argus otherwise. My early game was a little weak, so I was considering it, but I probably wouldn't have picked it if I hadn't read some stuff here about how it's not as bad as it looks when used correctly.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 22, 2014, 01:54:49 pm
^ I don't remember the conversation specifically about Mama Wraith. I do remember the praise for Pint-sized Summoner and the 2/2's for 2 in general.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 22, 2014, 01:58:28 pm
Here's the quote.

^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
Sunfury and Feral are rare, and Harvest Golem is a 3-drop. Definitely 2/2s are worse than 3/2s in that if you don't play them on turn 2, the body is weak. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are good when played on turn 2. They trade with 3/2s, and have upside. They get worse later in the game, which is why they are slightly below-average cards. Dire Wolf actually is good if you can maintain something on the board, which makes it the best of the 2/2s, the only neutral one better than Raptor.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on November 22, 2014, 02:10:49 pm
Funny quote because there are several neutral 3/2 2-drops with additional effects that make them strictly superior to Raptor.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on November 23, 2014, 02:03:22 am
I just got offered Molten Giant, Mountain Giant, Sea Giant for an arena pick.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on November 23, 2014, 02:10:32 am
I just got offered Molten Giant, Mountain Giant, Sea Giant for an arena pick.

So... Sea Giant, right?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on November 23, 2014, 02:18:31 am
I just got offered Molten Giant, Mountain Giant, Sea Giant for an arena pick.

So... Sea Giant, right?

Yep. It also helps that I already picked Haunted Creeper + Imp Master and I was Rogue (so getting a Defias Ringleader or 2 wasn't that unlikely.)

Edit: Knife Juggler + Defias is silly. Knife Juggler behind Taunted Defias + Haunted Creeper is also silly. Knife Juggler + Imp Master behind those taunts? I think my Juggler threw ~10 knives that game, almost all of them hitting minions. It was completely ridiculous.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on November 24, 2014, 11:22:58 pm
Ugh, 4 out of my last 5 arenas gave me a non-gold common, and twice at the 6-win mark. Just so annoying.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on November 25, 2014, 12:21:00 am
Funny quote because there are several neutral 3/2 2-drops with additional effects that make them strictly superior to Raptor.

You misread it. I said it's the only neutral 2/2 that's better than Raptor.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on November 25, 2014, 12:51:37 am
I just had a ridiculously close arena game that went to fatigue for both players. I won only because my opponent misplayed on the very last turn. I'm at 8 health and have just played my last card, Fire Elemental. He drops a 5/4, Fireballs Fire Elemental, then hero powers my face. But, if he had Fireballed + hero powered my face, I would died to the fatigue draw.

Now, turns out it doesn't matter, unless I roll the 50% chance for a Taunt totem. If I do, he can't break through to kill me, and I only need to stall for one turn. I do, and he loses to fatigue :D
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on November 26, 2014, 09:08:06 pm
I just went from 0-2 to 10-2 with a Paladin deck. It was a bit too heavy on 4 drops, but was solid.

I lost two first rounds to some sick openings: Undertaker/Haunted Creeper/Harvest Golem Mage on game 1, and -/Hyena/UTH for 2, for 6/3 hyena vs my empty board on turn 3 in game 2.
Was really bummed, but 10 straight wins was awesome.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 26, 2014, 09:38:39 pm
Reminds me of my most traumatizing arena loss.  I attacked something while there was a trap out, it was snake trap.  The next turn after the snakes came out, timber wolf, timber wolf, old UTH (they all get +1/+0 and charge).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on November 28, 2014, 03:12:20 am
My last 3 arena runs have been 11, 8, 12 wins. I suspect that was partly from amazingly good drafts, but it can't all be from that, can it?

(Rogue with 2 Backstabs + 2 Defias + smattering of combo/Assassinate/good stuff, Shaman with sketchy early-game minions but 3 Lightning Storms, 2 Bolts, and 2 Fire Elementals, Hunter with very good aggressive curve, 2 Spellbreakers to break through taunt, 2 Freezing Traps + 2 Explosive Traps and a Highmane.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 28, 2014, 12:07:27 pm
Respectively? Achievement unlocked, I've yet to get 12 arena wins as hunter.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 28, 2014, 12:17:44 pm
My best runs are with Shaman. My brother's best runs are with Mage. I do pretty well with warrior too though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on November 28, 2014, 12:30:56 pm
I'm still averaging like 4 wins in Arena. :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on November 28, 2014, 12:40:07 pm
I've been most successful with Druid and Paladin.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 28, 2014, 12:45:56 pm
I'm still averaging like 4 wins in Arena. :(

That's still pretty good. I only average 4.77 since I started tracking it on Arena Mastery, and though there's definitely room for improvement with my play and drafts I'm not sadfaced by my ranking. I don't think you should be either! 4 wins is good!

My best drafts are usually with Shaman and Warrior.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 28, 2014, 12:56:26 pm
Reminds me of my most traumatizing arena loss.  I attacked something while there was a trap out, it was snake trap.  The next turn after the snakes came out, timber wolf, timber wolf, old UTH (they all get +1/+0 and charge).

I think I just traumatized someone. We're about even on life and cards. His board is a Cult Master, Amani Berserker (7/2), Flametongue Totem, Healing Totem (2/2). Naturalize his Cult Master and play an Ironbark Protector (he was going to get two cards from his Cult Master anyways so I basically had to Naturalize it). He gets an amazing trade for the Ironbark, wipes my board and is 2 cards up. He plays out most of his cards and they are all two health except for his Flametongue. I've literally got one out in my deck and I draw my Starfall, wiping his board by pinging the surviving Totem. I play out my hand and then he Deathwing's the board wiping it again. I don't have any more direct removal, but he can't kill me in one turn. He chooses to trade with a 4/4 I have on the board leaving a Scarlet Crusader on my side to his Flametongue and 1/1 totem. I topdeck a Starfire and kill Deathwing, clear his board again the following turn and he surrenders. Biggest rollercoaster of a game I've ever played, and one in which I was incredibly lucky. We both had 3 cards left.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on November 28, 2014, 08:14:33 pm
Jeez. Guys plays a Lorewalker Cho. Next turn, I laugh when he plays Gadzetan the following turn and I actually do not kill anything, as I am ahead on board and him casting spells isn't really good for him.

So next turn he plays Naturalize, +2/+2 Taunt and Swipe.

Ez win. :D
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on November 28, 2014, 08:17:15 pm
Oh, and I played some Pint-Size Summoner (I rarely do), and yeah, he is quite decent. good.
Also people underrate it so you can get away with it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on November 29, 2014, 03:51:34 pm
What, exactly is cho supposed to be good for? It seems like I am missing something obvious but as far as I can tell it's the worst card I have ever seen in play. Anytime someone has it in their deck I beat them quite soundly. I suppose it would make sense if it had good stats and you used no spells but that isn't the case. So, what gives with this card?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 29, 2014, 03:56:32 pm
What, exactly is cho supposed to be good for? It seems like I am missing something obvious but as far as I can tell it's the worst card I have ever seen in play. Anytime someone has it in their deck I beat them quite soundly. I suppose it would make sense if it had good stats and you used no spells but that isn't the case. So, what gives with this card?

It used to have 1 attack. It's for decks that don't use spells, or don't care if you give spells to the opponent. I think it's in the category of Legendaries that are more fun than useful, like Millhouse Manastorm.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 29, 2014, 04:18:49 pm
What, exactly is cho supposed to be good for? It seems like I am missing something obvious but as far as I can tell it's the worst card I have ever seen in play. Anytime someone has it in their deck I beat them quite soundly. I suppose it would make sense if it had good stats and you used no spells but that isn't the case. So, what gives with this card?

It's really not that hard to break the symmetry of the card and make it work for you.  Coldlight Oracle helps both players too but it gets usage. 

It's just that Lorewalker Cho's stats are too low.  2/2 for 3 isn't quite as bad as 0/4 for 2.  His symmetrical effect has to do too much work to make up for his below curve body.  Totally removing all attack from the minion was an overnerf, the drop from 1 to 0 is like the 4$ to 5$ gap in dominion.  Lose the ability to poke divine shields, to commit suicide in an odd situation where that's necessary, to finish off 2/1's that your Flame imps don't want to fight.

Pagle barely barely sees any play right now, so Lorewalker Cho's failure to see play doesn't necessarily mean his effect isn't powerful, because .5 cards per turn is unarguably powerful.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on November 30, 2014, 07:42:50 pm
So, the answer to the question is "he got nerfed". Yeah, they broke him.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on December 01, 2014, 11:20:44 am
The (first world) problem with building a deck that's really great in the late game is that even when you're winning games all your games take forever. I've never had to run through my deck so often as I have with this deck, and every game feels like it's 30 minutes long.
 
http://arenamastery.com/dwvj
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 01, 2014, 12:01:38 pm
yeah I've said for a long time that I think Trump is skewed towards aggro just because of that phenomenon (and he wins either way()
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on December 01, 2014, 03:59:47 pm
Well, my last 2 runs were 3/4 wins, so looks like it was a fluke after all :(

For arena, I never got the feeling that Trump was skewed towards aggro, I thought he was skewed towards board control/tempo. To be fair, that is more aggro leaning, trying to play a board control deck without a good supply of 2/3 drops usually ends poorly, and your ideal mana curve tops out pretty fast.

I've heard of people that try to only play aggressive arena decks, but drafts don't usually allow for the same kind of aggression in my experience. I could be drafting it wrong though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on December 01, 2014, 04:07:40 pm
I think Trump plays more of a control style too. He's usually really cautious and more inclined to trade than hit face.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 01, 2014, 08:46:28 pm
I think Trump plays more of a control style too. He's usually really cautious and more inclined to trade than hit face.

Well good players look controllier than average players.  I think if he wanted to only max his winrate he'd take some of the fast cards a little less though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 01, 2014, 08:47:03 pm
Who was it that was a friends of adwcta?  Was it theory?

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2nxdzx/heartharena_revealhandson/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on December 02, 2014, 12:24:44 am
I've heard of people that try to only play aggressive arena decks, but drafts don't usually allow for the same kind of aggression in my experience. I could be drafting it wrong though.

What do you mean by "the same kind of aggression"? The same as what? Of course it can't be the same as constructed, where you try to empty you hand and kill your opponent in like 5 turns.

The important thing to note is that every deck is weaker than in constructed, so being unable to kill your opponent fast is not a huge deal. He won't automatically have great stuff to shut you down in the late turns. There are far fewer Sludge Belchers, tauning giants, Alexstrazas, etc. Really all arena decks are some sort of midrange. Arena "aggro" is just aggressive midrange.

What you want to do is contest for the board the first 4-6 turns, taking opportunities to hit face instead of trading if there's no real way for your opponent to get better value than the trade. Then start to be more aggressive once you get a tempo advantage and be willing to give up board position if you can deal enough face damage. Like if you each have 8 damage worth of minions, you can hit face instead of trading, and even if your opponent can get some favorable trades, if you have the ability to pressure his life enough, it won't matter. This requires you to have some burn or good removal (to mitigate the board disadvantage). Mage and Hunter are the best for this since they have good AoE (Flamestrike, Multi-shot), single-target removal (Poly, Deadly, Mark), and burn (Fireball, Kill Command, Steady Shot)

When you draft, you don't actually want to draft that differently than you would for a board control deck. A few things like Rocketeer, Nightblade, and Leper Gnome become better, but the top cards are still the same. You're still taking basically every Ogre you get offered.

Recently I've been trying to get my Hunter level up, so I've been playing Hunter as much as possible. In 9 runs in the last couple months, I've gotten at least 5 wins every time (9,5,7,7,6,5,5,8,11). That's a reasonably high floor. The point is that even if you get a bad draft, a lot of arena decks just can't handle the face pressure. When I drafted this deck
0 - hunter's mark
1 - arcane shot, tracking, archer, webspinner
2 - explosive, freezing, mad sci, engi
3 - companion, deadly, kill, 2x unleash, arcane golem, coldlight, farseer, panther, cleric, silverback
4 - 2x multi, dwarf, 2 houndmaster, twilight drake
5 - explosive, faceless, buzzard
6 - ogre
I thought I'd be sub-3 wins, since I lack any real early game, but it still went for 8. Now maybe you could say this is not really an aggro deck, but I think it is. It starts going face relatively early, giving up board position to get saved by the removal while minions go face.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 02, 2014, 09:33:48 am
I agree that aggressive midrange is very viable in arena and will feel like aggro in the arena meta, but I think there are some good arena decks that you can truly classify as "control".  The inability to get a critical mass of leper gnome type cards totally cuts you off from aggro, but since Hearthstone is a game where creatures can be used as removal you can build a pretty sweet control deck with the right offers.  I mean, it's possible to build a deck where you get Ysera and you're happy with it so I'd class that as a control deck
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 07, 2014, 11:45:59 pm
So I thought this draft went really poorly, but so far it's gone 6-2:

http://arenamastery.com/k0BU

Let me say this: Coin-Shredder on T3 into Screwjank on T4 is really, really nice.  Not instant win, but a 6/5 at the start of T5 begs removal...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on December 07, 2014, 11:51:27 pm
So I thought this draft went really poorly, but so far it's gone 6-2:

http://arenamastery.com/k0BU

Let me say this: Coin-Shredder on T3 into Screwjank on T4 is really, really nice.  Not instant win, but a 6/5 at the start of T5 begs removal...

I also just finished a run that went 6-2 that was mostly 2's and 5's. A few good 6's, like Sunwalker and Sky golem, but I'm amazed at how well it did.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 08, 2014, 12:35:09 am
...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on December 08, 2014, 12:51:11 am
...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.

really? I see it in aggro decks that don't care so much about missing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 08, 2014, 10:28:37 am
...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.

really? I see it in aggro decks that don't care so much about missing.

It might, but I dunno.  When you want to attack face with it and it gives your opponent's minions 50% taunt that can be bad for aggro and could make you wish it was an Arcane Golem or Wolf Rider.

The thing about a weapon with extra attack and random targetting as the drawback is that it has a chance to attack a Scarlet Crusader or something, effectively removing the extra attack that was supposed to be the exciting part.  If it was high durability maybe it'd be different
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on December 09, 2014, 01:32:52 am
http://i.imgur.com/ns67qBP.jpg

I <3 Arena
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on December 13, 2014, 05:29:04 pm
Warlock got so much stronger in the Arena with GvG. Floating Watcher and Implosion are insanely good, and Darkbomb is nice as well.
In contrast, i think Paladin really suffered because it's less likely to get the awesome commons that made it strong. I think they should add another good common weapon with the next set of cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on December 14, 2014, 10:25:46 am
Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 14, 2014, 11:24:59 am
Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Paladin has always been good in arena, and now they have Shieldbots and Muster for Battle. Also Quartermaster. As long as they still get their 4 mana power cards they are a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 14, 2014, 11:50:42 am
Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 14, 2014, 11:54:32 am
Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
Maybe stop winning before turn 7?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on December 14, 2014, 03:55:20 pm
Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 14, 2014, 05:57:51 pm
Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
Maybe stop winning before turn 7?
*losing, generally to minions with four health
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on December 15, 2014, 02:31:36 pm
Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 15, 2014, 02:48:49 pm
Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).

Talk on Reddit suggests that Arena has tilted more toward aggro than control now, partly due to the decreased amount of good AOE available.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on December 15, 2014, 02:54:46 pm
Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).

Talk on Reddit suggests that Arena has tilted more toward aggro than control now, partly due to the decreased amount of good AOE available.

Because of what Kirian said, I think that any AOE you can get is stronger than it used to be. I've been drafting Wild Pyro and Abomination higher than I used to (Mechanical Sheep is good for similar reasons), and haven't fallen off in the types of performances I've been getting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 15, 2014, 04:04:17 pm
There are also more midgame cards in arena now, I think. Mechanical Yeti, Burly Rockjaw, and Piloted Shredder give more reason to worry about early game board control. There are a now more 4 drops that are scary when dropped on an empty board.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 15, 2014, 04:58:25 pm
There are also more midgame cards in arena now, I think. Mechanical Yeti, Burly Rockjaw, and Piloted Shredder give more reason to worry about early game board control. There are a now more 4 drops that are scary when dropped on an empty board.

Also Spider Tank.  Even if it were not a mech, that 3/4 for 3 is a huge change.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 17, 2014, 04:30:51 pm
After losing over and over again lately I got 12-1 as Druid with double Druid of the Fang, multiple swipes, and Ironbark, Ancient, Sunwalker, Skygolem, and a Kodo.

It's really not that hard to make the fatties druid deck come together, I get stomped by those kinds of decks all the time, which is why I wanted to build one.  I'm pretty sure the basic frequency has remained constant, so you still get lots of Swipe and Ironbark and rely on the new cards for Druid's gaps in 2-4 cost minions.  It seems pretty good. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 18, 2014, 12:29:29 am
http://arenamastery.com/wsxZ

This one went 7-3, with the first two games being absolutely awful losses, one of which I posted in the "worst moments" thread.

The hero card here was Velen's Chosen.  I can see it being really good in constructed as well.

KingZog spectated one of my matches, my 4th or 5th win.  Worst moment there was Piloted Shredder popping to reveal... Captain's Parrot.  Best moment, though, was getting Gruul off a Mind Vision.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 18, 2014, 01:47:38 am
Warrior gets Iron Juggernaut in draft.  Warrior plays IJ.  I draw the Mine immediately.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on December 20, 2014, 04:21:07 pm
What would be your pick between

Anima Golem
Hungry Crab
Hobgoblin

as pick #30 of a Warlock draft with no mech synergies, no Murlocs, and no 1-attack minions?

Here's the full draft for reference: http://www.arenamastery.com/arena.php?shared=hs53ccb0d23ec9f&arena=456497
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on December 20, 2014, 05:09:50 pm
What would be your pick between

Anima Golem
Hungry Crab
Hobgoblin

as pick #30 of a Warlock draft with no mech synergies, no Murlocs, and no 1-attack minions?

Here's the full draft for reference: http://www.arenamastery.com/arena.php?shared=hs53ccb0d23ec9f&arena=456497

Anima golem is pretty terrible. It's actually fairly easy to kill most of the time. I'd pick hobgoblin, but it's pretty bad too. But at least it's a minion that might do something. Sometimes you have to pick Thrallmar farseer, and it's essentially just a 2/3 for 3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on December 20, 2014, 05:18:22 pm
Well I went 1-3, but it seemed like Anima Golem had the potential to be completely bonkers in certain not-too-rare situations. The one game I won, I had Anima Golem out next to a Voidcaller, with a Dread Infernal in hand. If my opponent hadn't had a Shadow Word: Death he would've been dead in the water. It's good with Harvest Golem-type deathrattles, and if you have a bunch of those it might be playable.

Another game I played it along with a bunch of 3-health minions, including a taunt, into my opponent's Mini-Mage. He was a Priest with about seven cards in hand. That was a mistake.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on December 21, 2014, 06:08:43 am
When all else fails, I like a card that make the opponent feel like they need to remove it.  I think Hobgoblin is that type of card -- your opponent doesn't know you have zero 1-attack minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 21, 2014, 10:41:43 am
When all else fails, I like a card that make the opponent feel like they need to remove it.  I think Hobgoblin is that type of card -- your opponent doesn't know you have zero 1-attack minions.
Couldn't you do the same thing with Mechwarper? Your opponent doesn't know you have little to no mechs.

Edit: Oh right, this is the arena discussion thread.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on December 21, 2014, 01:48:43 pm
Well I went 1-3, but it seemed like Anima Golem had the potential to be completely bonkers in certain not-too-rare situations. The one game I won, I had Anima Golem out next to a Voidcaller, with a Dread Infernal in hand. If my opponent hadn't had a Shadow Word: Death he would've been dead in the water. It's good with Harvest Golem-type deathrattles, and if you have a bunch of those it might be playable.

Another game I played it along with a bunch of 3-health minions, including a taunt, into my opponent's Mini-Mage. He was a Priest with about seven cards in hand. That was a mistake.
Worgen infiltrator and blood imp are way more relevant as combos. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on December 22, 2014, 07:28:03 am
Turn 3 he attacked with Velen's Chosen Sun Shattered Cleric.
I didn't clear it, so turn 4 he attacked with it again, and also cast 2 Mind Blasts, putting me at 8.

I won after that..
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on December 23, 2014, 03:31:06 am
Opinions on Tinker's Sharpsword Oil in arena?

I picked it over Assassin's Blade since I wanted to try it out, and so far I'm not convinced it was worth it, but Assassin's Blade is amazing.

In terms of removal, even without the combo it's 6 damage over 2 turns for 4 mana, which is Fireball-like, but it's broken up and you take some damage too. Breaking up the damage is good or bad depending on what kind of deck you're against. The deck I drafted was pretty aggressive, so it's a bit awkward to get 4 mana and a full charge Hero power at times, but getting to remove threats without losing creatures has let me win a couple games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on December 23, 2014, 07:09:21 am
Opinions on Tinker's Sharpsword Oil in arena?

I picked it over Assassin's Blade since I wanted to try it out, and so far I'm not convinced it was worth it, but Assassin's Blade is amazing.

In terms of removal, even without the combo it's 6 damage over 2 turns for 4 mana, which is Fireball-like, but it's broken up and you take some damage too. Breaking up the damage is good or bad depending on what kind of deck you're against. The deck I drafted was pretty aggressive, so it's a bit awkward to get 4 mana and a full charge Hero power at times, but getting to remove threats without losing creatures has let me win a couple games.

I find it quite good, but definitely not as good as Assassin's Blade. It is powerful but can be quite clunky at times. Most of the time you cannot get full value out of it, but even when you don't it's fine.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on December 23, 2014, 02:42:48 pm
I think it's decent, but it's far from great. It's quite hard to get full value from it. The key is that you have to stick a minion, and then be able to combo. If you get the combo on a sleeping minion, there's too much of a chance the +3 attack does nothing. And if you just get it on the weapon, you're looking at essentially a 4/2 weapon for 6, which is not really good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on December 23, 2014, 02:55:14 pm
I haven't been impressed with Sharp Oil. It's too hard to get full value.Maybe if you already have assassins blades, then you put it on that and you can rush lethal, but otherwise it's very average.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on December 23, 2014, 03:02:23 pm
Just finished my first ever 12 win arena!  Previous best was 9 wins.  Went 12-1 (and had at least one major misplay with wild pyro in the loss).

Here's the deck:  http://arenamastery.com/xkA7 (http://arenamastery.com/xkA7)

A bunch of big solid cards, mad bombers that behaved (in my last match, my bomber killed a mana wyrm with the battlecry). 

Edit:  Never said this:  Shaman
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 23, 2014, 03:44:36 pm
I think it's decent, but it's far from great. It's quite hard to get full value from it. The key is that you have to stick a minion, and then be able to combo. If you get the combo on a sleeping minion, there's too much of a chance the +3 attack does nothing. And if you just get it on the weapon, you're looking at essentially a 4/2 weapon for 6, which is not really good.
In constructed, I saw someone play Southsea deckhand -> Sharpsword oil. That was kinda cool, but not game winning.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on December 23, 2014, 11:52:54 pm
12-1 Rogue! Almost the 12-0 dream, the one game I lost was because I drew very few early game minions in my opening hand. That may have been my fault - I sent back a Dancing Swords against a Paladin, thinking I would draw into more early game, but I didn't. If I had kept it, I think this might have been a 12-0, but it's hard to say.

4x Backstab

1x Zombie Chow

1x Betrayal
1x Sap
1x Shiv
2x Defias Ringleader
1x Goblin Autobarber
1x Mad Bomber
1x Mana Wraith
1x Novice Engineer
1x Ship's Cannon

1x Dancing Swords
2x SI:7 Agent
1x Spider Tank

1x Tinker's Sharpsword Oil
1x Defender of Argus
1x Gnomish Inventor
1x Piloted Shredder
1x Spellbreaker

1x Assassinate
1x Azure Drake
2x Darkscale Healer
1x Salty Dog

1x Archmage

Such a ridiculous deck - every game I won didn't feel close at all. I drop my early game, Backstab + SI:7 my way through anything they play, Sap/Spellbreaker on any taunts, and kill them before they can catch up. On my last game, I ended up playing a 4 damage Backstab off Azure + Archmage that completely swung the game to me.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 24, 2014, 01:03:41 am
I share the joy with Titandrake. A 12-1 run as Priest. Is it a Christmas Miracle.

http://arenamastery.com/vqMg (http://arenamastery.com/vqMg)

Most games I won solidly, with a Holy Fire acting as surprise lethal. The one game I lost was against a Mage that coined out a Micro Machine that had to be killed by a Sludge Belcher. Even in that game, I was fairly close to winning, but my opponent topdecked a lethal Fireball.

Oh and Shrinkmeister is really crazy in arena. In one game I double shrunk an Ogre Brute.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on December 24, 2014, 03:15:00 am
I'm still in search of the elusive 12 win arena.  My last three were 4, 6, and 2 wins. :(  The last loss in that last one, vs Hunter, I had Malygos on the table, plus another minion to knock out the taunt and two totems, plus Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt in hand.  Hunter had 24 health, I had 1.  The game hinged on the 50/50 chance of getting Wrath of Air totem.  Mais, non.

(The hunter topdecking a taunt didn't help.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on December 24, 2014, 05:47:56 am
Inspired by your 12 win runs and some wine, I bought an arena ticket and promptly went 4-3...got 75 gold though.

And Fel Reaver is awesome.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 31, 2014, 06:28:16 pm
Yay, another 12-win arena run, right before the New Year's celebration. All about the eye of the tiger. Got Bolvar in the pack too, which is now the first Legendary I got from a GvG pack.

http://arenamastery.com/HMCn (http://arenamastery.com/HMCn)

This is the 3 run out of my four 12-win runs that was done with a Priest. I don't know if it's just me or if Priest has gotten better because of the new class cards it received after Naxx and GvG. It seems Priest runs can be really good so long as you draft towards the better synergies and cards (and get a Northshire Cleric or two).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on December 31, 2014, 06:41:43 pm
^Nice. I feel like Priest is one of the worst 2 classes in arena (along with Warlock). Priest has definitely got some of the best new cards in Cultist and Shrinkmeister, but it's so dependent on board position and without having a great means of getting that board position in the first place. My max wins with Priest is 9, Warlock/Hunter 11, and everything else 12. Of course, based on my evaluation of the strengths, Priest is my least played, then Warlock/Hunter, so maybe it's self-fulfilling. Or maybe I'm just worse with Priest than you are...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: mpsprs on December 31, 2014, 06:47:14 pm
I don't play often, so there is definitely a sample size thing, and I'm not good either, which affects things, but priest is my strongest arena class.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 31, 2014, 07:21:15 pm
^Nice. I feel like Priest is one of the worst 2 classes in arena (along with Warlock). Priest has definitely got some of the best new cards in Cultist and Shrinkmeister, but it's so dependent on board position and without having a great means of getting that board position in the first place. My max wins with Priest is 9, Warlock/Hunter 11, and everything else 12. Of course, based on my evaluation of the strengths, Priest is my least played, then Warlock/Hunter, so maybe it's self-fulfilling. Or maybe I'm just worse with Priest than you are...
I mostly avoided Priest before Naxx in Arena because it was supposedly like bottom 3. Then when Naxx came out, I remember someone praising Dark Cultist as a card that made Priest one of the better classes for Arena. Now GvG is out and all classes can get a 3/4 in the form of Spider Tank, so maybe Priest lost a big advantage there, but now there's Shrinkmeister, Velen's Chosen, and possibly Lightbomb if you're lucky to get it.

I definitely noticed the Priest's weaknesses in the run. The Priest hero power is probably the weakest one in Arena. You need to win the board with big minions to get value out of it, which is why I picked Tiger a lot in the draft.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 31, 2014, 07:38:13 pm
Of course, Mage and Paladin are better than ever in Arena now. I realized that most of the neutral non-legendary cards in GvG are vulnerable to Flamestrike. There are more Yetis, but not more Boulderfist Ogres.

Paladins got some really solid Arena cards in GvG.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on December 31, 2014, 07:47:17 pm
Actually, while spider tank and ogre brute make cultist less uniquiely powerful, they are also nicer for priest than for other classes because they are sticky and healable.

Priest absolutely needs to find a way to have a minion on board at the start of your turn in order to make effective use of hero power, pw:s, shrinkmeister, and temple enforcer. If you can do that (3 tigers helps), it feels really powerful. But it's much less reliable than mage, rogue, and druid. Maybe it's as good as shaman, which has the same problem, but I've just managed to get better shaman drafts.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 31, 2014, 08:02:29 pm
I have to practice more with Rogue. I've been getting better, but I have so little experience with the class that I avoid it most of the time. Maybe I can play it more on my Euro account.

Druid yeah, that's a solid class for Arena, but I don't know what a 10+ win Druid deck looks like.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on December 31, 2014, 08:09:51 pm
^Nice. I feel like Priest is one of the worst 2 classes in arena (along with Warlock). Priest has definitely got some of the best new cards in Cultist and Shrinkmeister, but it's so dependent on board position and without having a great means of getting that board position in the first place. My max wins with Priest is 9, Warlock/Hunter 11, and everything else 12. Of course, based on my evaluation of the strengths, Priest is my least played, then Warlock/Hunter, so maybe it's self-fulfilling. Or maybe I'm just worse with Priest than you are...
I mostly avoided Priest before Naxx in Arena because it was supposedly like bottom 3. Then when Naxx came out, I remember someone praising Dark Cultist as a card that made Priest one of the better classes for Arena. Now GvG is out and all classes can get a 3/4 in the form of Spider Tank, so maybe Priest lost a big advantage there, but now there's Shrinkmeister, Velen's Chosen, and possibly Lightbomb if you're lucky to get it.

I definitely noticed the Priest's weaknesses in the run. The Priest hero power is probably the weakest one in Arena. You need to win the board with big minions to get value out of it, which is why I picked Tiger a lot in the draft.

Lightbomb is nuts. I was lucky enough to get one and it's good enough to win games singlehandedly when I draw it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on December 31, 2014, 08:40:54 pm
^Nice. I feel like Priest is one of the worst 2 classes in arena (along with Warlock). Priest has definitely got some of the best new cards in Cultist and Shrinkmeister, but it's so dependent on board position and without having a great means of getting that board position in the first place. My max wins with Priest is 9, Warlock/Hunter 11, and everything else 12. Of course, based on my evaluation of the strengths, Priest is my least played, then Warlock/Hunter, so maybe it's self-fulfilling. Or maybe I'm just worse with Priest than you are...
I mostly avoided Priest before Naxx in Arena because it was supposedly like bottom 3. Then when Naxx came out, I remember someone praising Dark Cultist as a card that made Priest one of the better classes for Arena. Now GvG is out and all classes can get a 3/4 in the form of Spider Tank, so maybe Priest lost a big advantage there, but now there's Shrinkmeister, Velen's Chosen, and possibly Lightbomb if you're lucky to get it.

I definitely noticed the Priest's weaknesses in the run. The Priest hero power is probably the weakest one in Arena. You need to win the board with big minions to get value out of it, which is why I picked Tiger a lot in the draft.

Lightbomb is nuts. I was lucky enough to get one and it's good enough to win games singlehandedly when I draw it.
Yeah Lightbomb is really good in Arena, but it's epic. Just think of all the commonly picked big minions like Silver Hand Knight, Tiger, War Golem/Dr. Boom/Force Tank, Azure Drake, Stormwind Champion. Lightbomb wipes them all out singlehandedly, while the Priest user often has high health minions that survive. I feel it's a lot less likely to be just not enough than Holy Nova.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 03, 2015, 01:04:12 am
Had a little bit of extra gold, so on a whim I picked Hunter over Shaman and Mage. Started 1-2 and finished 12-2, like all good Hunter decks. http://arenamastery.com/NIC4

Kezan Mystic, Scavenging Hyena, and Gladiator's Longbow each singlehandedly won me a game or two, but other than that it was a pretty typical midrange Hunter deck. Some Beast synergies, two Glaivezookas, good removal at all points in the game, and some solid minions (especially my Rares).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 03, 2015, 05:07:56 pm
Here's an odd Warlock draft: http://arenamastery.com/TbeJ

Tons of removal: 3x Darkbomb, Hellfire, Implosion, 2x Siphon Soul, Power Overwhelming + Shadowflame
Lots of heal: Earthen Ring Farseer, Antique Healbot, 2x Siphon Soul
Lots of 6-drops
Decent minion quality all around

I thought this would be a very solid deck, but I went 3-3, having lost to Truesilver Champion, Fiery War Axe, and Bloodlust. What's the deal?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 03, 2015, 06:44:48 pm
Here's an odd Warlock draft: http://arenamastery.com/TbeJ

Tons of removal: 3x Darkbomb, Hellfire, Implosion, 2x Siphon Soul, Power Overwhelming + Shadowflame
Lots of heal: Earthen Ring Farseer, Antique Healbot, 2x Siphon Soul
Lots of 6-drops
Decent minion quality all around

I thought this would be a very solid deck, but I went 3-3, having lost to Truesilver Champion, Fiery War Axe, and Bloodlust. What's the deal?

It looks like an ok deck, but most of your minions aren't sticky. Also, tons of spells doesn't work as well in arena since opponents can have minions that survive dark bombs and such. You had Sky Golem, sunwalker and a shredder which are sticky, but many of the other aren't. Also you had no really big minions. Floating watcher doesn't really count as a huge minion since it takes time to grow and starts very easy to kill.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 04, 2015, 11:11:56 am
Sometimes you just lose, even with a good deck. You're especially more susceptible if your deck is heavier on removal than minions, since you don't get the runaway wins when your opponent draws poorly.

Also somewhat related, warlock is possibly the worst class in arena. Since he has the best hero power for constructed, he gets the worst class cards. But in arena, he has a bottom 3 hero power and the same bad set of cards, with the issue that you're even forced to pick some of them and in situations where you can't get good synergies out of them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on January 04, 2015, 11:37:42 am
I go back and forth on Warlock in arena.  His hero power doesn't affect the board, but it does a decently good job of guaranteeing that if a game goes long, you have a good shot of winning.  The class also has four very good cards to guarantee survival in the early game (Flame Imp, Soulfire, Darkbomb, Shadow Bolt), as well as a good sweeper in Hellfire.  It has two solid late-game minons (Dread Infernal, Floating Watcher) once it gets to the late game.  I do agree that many of the class cards are weak... but you can put together a deck with a solid gameplan that does well vs mostly everything (hunter is still a struggle).  The deck is reliant on getting cheap minions, though.. flame imps and zombie chows are excellent, and it can sometimes be a struggle without them.

I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost). 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on January 04, 2015, 12:28:28 pm
I'm starting to get a better handle on Rogue in Arena. Basically, Rogues are really good at dominating the board early with their class cards and hero power, but a good Rogue draft has a way to take advantage of that early board presence to finish off the opponent.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 05, 2015, 12:24:32 am
I played 9 Mages in a row today... new record? http://i.imgur.com/iXjznp9.png
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on January 05, 2015, 12:41:17 am
I played 9 Mages in a row today... new record? http://i.imgur.com/iXjznp9.png

11 wins :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 05, 2015, 12:31:31 pm
I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost).

This seems like mostly a matter of personal stylistic preference. If you don't like to play aggressively, you're not going to like Rogue or Hunter. But Rogue is arguably the best class in arena. It has hands down the best hero power, and the best early game class cards. And in arena, it's very easy to snowball from an early board advantage into a win.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 05, 2015, 01:17:16 pm
I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost).

This seems like mostly a matter of personal stylistic preference. If you don't like to play aggressively, you're not going to like Rogue or Hunter. But Rogue is arguably the best class in arena. It has hands down the best hero power, and the best early game class cards. And in arena, it's very easy to snowball from an early board advantage into a win.

I doubt Rogue is the best in arena. Sure if has great early card and a good hero power, but it lacks answers to big minions besides assasination. Also your power makes you take a lot of damage, and since mage is good you just die to fireballs/pyroblast/hunters/charge minions/weapons from warriors. Also you empty your hand fast if you have combos, and if you dont use the combos your cards are below average.

From my experience Mage, Priest, and Paladin are the best. I'm pretty sure Priest will beat Rogue most of the time, Paladin too. Probably Paladin more as his weapons can swing a game back, and he also has tons of good early game cards too, like minibot and muster for battle.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 05, 2015, 01:25:31 pm
I played 9 Mages in a row today... new record? http://i.imgur.com/iXjznp9.png

11 wins :(
In fact, it felt even worse, because I ended up in fatigue for my second and third losses. In the second I lost with a Fireball in hand and my opponent at 7 health when he hit me with Fireball + Frostbolt + ping for exact lethal, while the Priest just ran me over with value minions and my 1 Flamestrike + 0 Polymorph deck just couldn't keep up.

I also got a Sea Giant as a reward, which is one of the few epics that I already have two of.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on January 05, 2015, 01:40:47 pm
I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost).

This seems like mostly a matter of personal stylistic preference. If you don't like to play aggressively, you're not going to like Rogue or Hunter. But Rogue is arguably the best class in arena. It has hands down the best hero power, and the best early game class cards. And in arena, it's very easy to snowball from an early board advantage into a win.

I doubt Rogue is the best in arena. Sure if has great early card and a good hero power, but it lacks answers to big minions besides assasination. Also your power makes you take a lot of damage, and since mage is good you just die to fireballs/pyroblast/hunters/charge minions/weapons from warriors. Also you empty your hand fast if you have combos, and if you dont use the combos your cards are below average.

From my experience Mage, Priest, and Paladin are the best. I'm pretty sure Priest will beat Rogue most of the time, Paladin too. Probably Paladin more as his weapons can swing a game back, and he also has tons of good early game cards too, like minibot and muster for battle.

Rogue is by far my worst Arena class and I almost never pick it. Despite having a good hero power, it's cards are very reliant on comboing which can cause early game problems when your mana is limited. As King Zog the Third says you also blow through cards quickly if you are getting combos off and there's little in Rogue's card set that gives card draw when you need it (sure sprint is great, but you usually wanted it two turns ago, Shiv and Fan of Knives usually don't remove a creature on their own and thus feel slow to me). On top of that Rogue's AoE is finicky and situational: Betrayal always leaves a creature behind, Fan of Knives doesn't do enough damage to kill most things (see above) and Blade Flurry requires you to combo it with a weapon that can hit for a decent amount of damage, and is also a rare making it less likely to show up. Give me Consecrate, Holy Nova, Blizzard or Flamestrike please. Rogue's weapons are smaller and less common than Warrior's, and the ability while good for control setups isn't as aggressive as Hunter's, which can eke out a win in the late game if someone puts up a taunt wall, where Rogue can't.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on January 05, 2015, 02:59:00 pm
Rogue is either really good or really bad in my experience. Trying to build a slower, more controlling Rogue deck just doesn't work out - you can't guarantee enough card draw in your draft, your class cards don't give you that much card advantage, and you can't use your hero power as removal too much because it damages you too.

So, you basically have to embrace a aggressive draft and play style. More weight to 2 and 3 drops, ideally a decent number of 1 drops too. Sometimes, you just have to hope they don't have a way to buff their creatures for value and go for the face damage, because if you force the even trade too much, you make the game go too long. Rogue has really good early game cards for board control, as long as they only have 1-2 minons the board at the time, so you either get board control and keep it until you win, or you lose it and never get it back.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 05, 2015, 03:56:44 pm
Rogue is either really good or really bad in my experience. Trying to build a slower, more controlling Rogue deck just doesn't work out - you can't guarantee enough card draw in your draft, your class cards don't give you that much card advantage, and you can't use your hero power as removal too much because it damages you too.

So, you basically have to embrace a aggressive draft and play style. More weight to 2 and 3 drops, ideally a decent number of 1 drops too. Sometimes, you just have to hope they don't have a way to buff their creatures for value and go for the face damage, because if you force the even trade too much, you make the game go too long. Rogue has really good early game cards for board control, as long as they only have 1-2 minons the board at the time, so you either get board control and keep it until you win, or you lose it and never get it back.

I don't think you want to draft a significantly lower curve for Rogue. If you do, you'll just run out of cards. I think you want to draft "normal" and then just rely on your hero power and class cards to give you a tempo advantage, which you can use to trade favorably with minions.

I doubt Rogue is the best in arena. Sure if has great early card and a good hero power, but it lacks answers to big minions besides assasination. Also your power makes you take a lot of damage, and since mage is good you just die to fireballs/pyroblast/hunters/charge minions/weapons from warriors. Also you empty your hand fast if you have combos, and if you dont use the combos your cards are below average.

From my experience Mage, Priest, and Paladin are the best. I'm pretty sure Priest will beat Rogue most of the time, Paladin too. Probably Paladin more as his weapons can swing a game back, and he also has tons of good early game cards too, like minibot and muster for battle.

I'm almost positive Rogue was #1 pre-GvG, but everything was so close, and it's possible that it has shifted significantly. Essentially, the addition of more sticky minions which can 2-for-1 stuff (Shredder, Mech Yeti, Spider, Brute) makes it less likely that an early board advantage is tantamount to a win (which it pretty-much was before). So Hunter and Rogue (and to a lesser extent Mage and Warrior) get weaker, and Priest, Druid, and Warlock get stronger (independently of the new class cards). It's not immediately clear how big this shift is.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 05, 2015, 05:08:21 pm
I agree that as rogue you just draft a normal arena deck, no special mana curves are needed. I don't think it's the worst, but it's been mentioned that their class cards are very combo oriented, with no good AoE. A bad mage draft can still get a number of win, a bad rogue draft will do much worse.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 06, 2015, 11:54:55 am
A bad mage draft can still get a number of win, a bad rogue draft will do much worse.

I feel like this is reversed. The floor for Rogue is higher because the hero power is better and there is no dependence on AoE (or any one particular card). Mage without Flamestrike or Fireball is like a completely different class.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on January 06, 2015, 04:49:46 pm
I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost).

This seems like mostly a matter of personal stylistic preference. If you don't like to play aggressively, you're not going to like Rogue or Hunter. But Rogue is arguably the best class in arena. It has hands down the best hero power, and the best early game class cards. And in arena, it's very easy to snowball from an early board advantage into a win.

I doubt Rogue is the best in arena. Sure if has great early card and a good hero power, but it lacks answers to big minions besides assasination. Also your power makes you take a lot of damage, and since mage is good you just die to fireballs/pyroblast/hunters/charge minions/weapons from warriors. Also you empty your hand fast if you have combos, and if you dont use the combos your cards are below average.

From my experience Mage, Priest, and Paladin are the best. I'm pretty sure Priest will beat Rogue most of the time, Paladin too. Probably Paladin more as his weapons can swing a game back, and he also has tons of good early game cards too, like minibot and muster for battle.
Yeah some of the best cards in the Rogue arsenal work with your weapon, and so you end up taking a lot of face damage in an effort to maintain the board. I've found that drafting an Antique Healbot goes a long way to addressing this weakness. Opponents hoping to burst you down for a come-from-behind victory receive a nasty surprise when healbot gets plopped down. I suppose it's also good to draft as a Warlock to allow you to use the Warlock hero power even more liberally.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 06, 2015, 04:57:59 pm
A bad mage draft can still get a number of win, a bad rogue draft will do much worse.

I feel like this is reversed. The floor for Rogue is higher because the hero power is better and there is no dependence on AoE (or any one particular card). Mage without Flamestrike or Fireball is like a completely different class.

Mage has a more solid pool of minions to choose from, meaning even if you don't get fireball or flamestike, you can get wins simply by having Water Elementals, snowchuggers to freeze weapon classes, flamecannons for great removal and polymorphs for removal. I've gone 7+ wins with an average mage deck with no fireballs or flamestikes, and just good minions. It's harder to draft that as a rogue because Rogue has so few good class minions, especially ones that are common.

Also good players play around flamestrike even if you don't have it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 06, 2015, 06:34:50 pm
I like Warlock more than hunter for sure.  And I think that I would rather play warlock than rogue, but that may just be that I haven't figured out how to draft rogue properly (I sure haven't figured out how to play against it.. it's routinely the class that I lose games against that I'm baffled I lost).

This seems like mostly a matter of personal stylistic preference. If you don't like to play aggressively, you're not going to like Rogue or Hunter. But Rogue is arguably the best class in arena. It has hands down the best hero power, and the best early game class cards. And in arena, it's very easy to snowball from an early board advantage into a win.

I doubt Rogue is the best in arena. Sure if has great early card and a good hero power, but it lacks answers to big minions besides assasination. Also your power makes you take a lot of damage, and since mage is good you just die to fireballs/pyroblast/hunters/charge minions/weapons from warriors. Also you empty your hand fast if you have combos, and if you dont use the combos your cards are below average.

From my experience Mage, Priest, and Paladin are the best. I'm pretty sure Priest will beat Rogue most of the time, Paladin too. Probably Paladin more as his weapons can swing a game back, and he also has tons of good early game cards too, like minibot and muster for battle.
Yeah some of the best cards in the Rogue arsenal work with your weapon, and so you end up taking a lot of face damage in an effort to maintain the board. I've found that drafting an Antique Healbot goes a long way to addressing this weakness. Opponents hoping to burst you down for a come-from-behind victory receive a nasty surprise when healbot gets plopped down. I suppose it's also good to draft as a Warlock to allow you to use the Warlock hero power even more liberally.

Yeah, I think people generally consider healing stronger in Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior drafts. If you check out http://www.heartharena.com/tierlist you can see that stuff like Healbot is rated higher in those classes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 06, 2015, 08:04:17 pm
Mage has a more solid pool of minions to choose from, meaning even if you don't get fireball or flamestike, you can get wins simply by having Water Elementals, snowchuggers to freeze weapon classes, flamecannons for great removal and polymorphs for removal. I've gone 7+ wins with an average mage deck with no fireballs or flamestikes, and just good minions. It's harder to draft that as a rogue because Rogue has so few good class minions, especially ones that are common.

I disagree with this. If you look at the list that ycz linked above me, they agree as well that while Rogue has fewer "beyond great" cards, it has as many or more "great", "good", "above average", and "average". I'm not saying you can't get 7+ without the best cards. We're talking about bad drafts, not mediocre ones. I'm saying you're more likely to get 3 or fewer with Mage than with Rogue. Mage is probably better than Rogue on average and more likely to get 12. But the chances of having a really bad draft is higher for Mage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 06, 2015, 10:37:24 pm
Mage has a more solid pool of minions to choose from, meaning even if you don't get fireball or flamestike, you can get wins simply by having Water Elementals, snowchuggers to freeze weapon classes, flamecannons for great removal and polymorphs for removal. I've gone 7+ wins with an average mage deck with no fireballs or flamestikes, and just good minions. It's harder to draft that as a rogue because Rogue has so few good class minions, especially ones that are common.

I disagree with this. If you look at the list that ycz linked above me, they agree as well that while Rogue has fewer "beyond great" cards, it has as many or more "great", "good", "above average", and "average". I'm not saying you can't get 7+ without the best cards. We're talking about bad drafts, not mediocre ones. I'm saying you're more likely to get 3 or fewer with Mage than with Rogue. Mage is probably better than Rogue on average and more likely to get 12. But the chances of having a really bad draft is higher for Mage.

Maybe it's my personal experience with Rogue that's skewing my opinion. When I draft mage I almost never go below 4, often 6 or 7. When I draft rogue my number of wins is extremely variable. I often face a number of more aggressive decks early in a run, and they die out after a while since good drafts beat them. As a rogue you lose to the aggressive drafts because your power hurts your hero.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 06, 2015, 11:49:34 pm
Every time you pay health with Rogue, you're paying mana with Mage, so you're losing the board more. Rogue should do better in these situations than Mage unless they're playing Magma Ragers or something...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Kirian on January 08, 2015, 11:08:03 pm
TIL: Fel Reaver does not keep trying to draw cards after hitting zero cards. :(

Sap on a Fel Reaver after playing another card was quite fun, though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on January 08, 2015, 11:15:50 pm
TIL: Fel Reaver does not keep trying to draw cards after hitting zero cards. :(

Sap on a Fel Reaver after playing another card was quite fun, though.

The no fatigue is one aspect that make Fel Reaver so good in arena. But haha, sap it really mean on the Fel Reaver player :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 13, 2015, 03:28:48 am
I just drafted a Paladin deck with two Muster for Battles and a Quartermaster.

It also has Wild Pyromancer, Unstable Ghoul, and Madder Bomber.

I'm nervous.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on January 13, 2015, 08:08:15 am
TIL: Fel Reaver does not keep trying to draw cards after hitting zero cards. :(

Sap on a Fel Reaver after playing another card was quite fun, though.

The no fatigue is one aspect that make Fel Reaver so good in arena. But haha, sap it really mean on the Fel Reaver player :P
Hitting Fel Reaver with Aldor Peacekeeper is also mean, but at least there you can silence the Reaver or bounce it back into your hand. Rulezing a Venture Merc is still more painful.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on January 15, 2015, 12:39:15 am
Oh man.

I just played the best endgame I've ever done as Druid against Hunter. It was a bunch of small decisions, but during the last 2 turns:

- I realize that I'm far too low health to worry about Kill Command killing my minions, since if he could remove my 3/3 taunt, he could just Kill Command my face. If it does go to my face, I'll die unless I hero power this turn. So, I hero power, drop minions with as much power as I can get, and go entirely for face, since my one hope is that I can force through enough damage before dying to Steady Shot. Notably this means I don't play any more taunts, because I won't have as much damage next turn with how my mana works out, he can't kill my 3/3 with the cards on board, and if he draws any more damage to clear my 3/3, I'll probably lose anyways.
- The Hunter then topdecks Kill Command. Command to face, Steady Shot, I'm at 1 life.
- I topdeck Ancient of Lore, heal to 6, then Hero Power to 7. If I hadn't decided to hero power last turn, I wouldn't have had the time to draw it.
- After killing off the board, I have exact damage (+1) for lethal next turn. If I hadn't played the minions I did on that turn, I wouldn't have had the damage to win the game.

The realization that I picked the exact perfect line of play 2 turns ago to win the game is making me feel pretty good right now.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on January 15, 2015, 01:44:37 pm
Oh man.

I just played the best endgame I've ever done as Druid against Hunter. It was a bunch of small decisions, but during the last 2 turns:

- I realize that I'm far too low health to worry about Kill Command killing my minions, since if he could remove my 3/3 taunt, he could just Kill Command my face. If it does go to my face, I'll die unless I hero power this turn. So, I hero power, drop minions with as much power as I can get, and go entirely for face, since my one hope is that I can force through enough damage before dying to Steady Shot. Notably this means I don't play any more taunts, because I won't have as much damage next turn with how my mana works out, he can't kill my 3/3 with the cards on board, and if he draws any more damage to clear my 3/3, I'll probably lose anyways.
- The Hunter then topdecks Kill Command. Command to face, Steady Shot, I'm at 1 life.
- I topdeck Ancient of Lore, heal to 6, then Hero Power to 7. If I hadn't decided to hero power last turn, I wouldn't have had the time to draw it.
- After killing off the board, I have exact damage (+1) for lethal next turn. If I hadn't played the minions I did on that turn, I wouldn't have had the damage to win the game.

The realization that I picked the exact perfect line of play 2 turns ago to win the game is making me feel pretty good right now.

I actually really like this sort of decision making in Hearthstone. When you feel like you're out and you have to play for best case scenarios you play differently than you would when you're playing "safe".
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on January 15, 2015, 02:08:06 pm
I just drafted a Paladin deck with two Muster for Battles and a Quartermaster.

It also has Wild Pyromancer, Unstable Ghoul, and Madder Bomber.

I'm nervous.

That could be difficult
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on January 19, 2015, 03:36:50 am
Realized something today: dealing with 6 health minions is really hard for Druid. I mean, it's hard for most classes, 6 health is a lot, but Druids in particular get hit hard. They lack hard removal to deal with them, and Swipe + hero power only does 5. Starfire + hero power can do it, but 8 mana is a very high cost.

So, a 6 health minion on board is really good, and you should priortize trading with other minions to keep it at 6 health if you can.

This is similar to a point from the playing against Paladin article by ADWTCA, where Paladin has trouble dealing with 5 health minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 20, 2015, 11:52:51 am
^Thanks for referencing the ADWTCA article, I hadn't seen it before. Seems like a good read.

The big thing about his 5 health minion example (where 4/5 > 4/2+3/2) is that you're willing to give up immediate card advantage by trading a minion rather than reducing a big one because you know the big one will get card advantage later while the 2 small minions have a good chance to just give the card advantage right back. In that sense the perceived immediate card advantage is not really worth more than the potential card advantage of the 4/5.

Vs Druid, it's a bit more copmlicated. If you give the minions all +1 health in the previous example (i.e. 4/6 vs 4/3+3/3) in a game against Druid, I'd rather have the 4/3+3/3, since that is still real card advantage (and it has a better chance of dealing with something like an Ironbark). 4/6 vs 4/3+3/2 is a little tougher, since the latter dies to Swpie + hero power, but you still have to think about how threatening that is compared to Ironbark.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 21, 2015, 11:01:48 pm
Just had a Priest draft which started with

Bomb Lobber
Dark Cultist
Shrinkmeister
Holy Nova
Piloted Shredder
Spider Tank
Zombie Chow
Dark Cultist
Velen's Chosen

where both of the Dark Cultists were drafted over Velen's Chosen. I then went 2-3, because I couldn't draft any lategame and the Holy Nova was my only removal of any kind.

This game is harsh.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on January 24, 2015, 02:09:43 pm
Here's one thing that happened in that arena: http://i.imgur.com/3nQe4RQ.jpg
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on January 24, 2015, 08:25:41 pm
State before frost nova into coin/fs?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on January 25, 2015, 01:02:21 am
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Dekryr on January 26, 2015, 04:57:55 pm
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.

I knew this, but what if it's a deathrattle minion. Will loot hoarder draw you a card? Does Harvest Golem just destroy both minions?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on January 26, 2015, 06:04:00 pm
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.

That's intersting. With 6 minions, you can't play Cabal Shadow Priest. I guess the battlecry is a little different since it's targeted.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on January 26, 2015, 06:40:34 pm
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.
You can also experience this by using Feign Death with Sylvanas out.  Especially if some spiderbabies pop out of the feign death to bring you up to seven minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on January 26, 2015, 07:00:11 pm
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.

I knew this, but what if it's a deathrattle minion. Will loot hoarder draw you a card? Does Harvest Golem just destroy both minions?

Loot hoarder draws a card, Harvest spawns a 2/1 golem. I'm 99% sure that it treats it as a regular minion death. Sap or Vanish when they have 10 cards in hand also destroys the minion and it works that way too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Dekryr on January 26, 2015, 07:07:44 pm
Today I learned that if you play Mind Control Tech as your 7th minion, instead of stealing a random minion, it destroys a random minion. It didn't actually affect the game's outcome, but that was weird to see.

I knew this, but what if it's a deathrattle minion. Will loot hoarder draw you a card? Does Harvest Golem just destroy both minions?


Loot hoarder draws a card, Harvest spawns a 2/1 golem. I'm 99% sure that it treats it as a regular minion death. Sap or Vanish when they have 10 cards in hand also destroys the minion and it works that way too.

But if it spawns the Damaged Golem where does it go? Does your opponent get it or does it just die because it can't fit on your board?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on January 26, 2015, 11:57:24 pm
Deathrattles in this case are on opponent behalf, as you never actually stole that minion
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on February 11, 2015, 02:49:45 am
12-0 with Hunter :D

(http://i.imgur.com/My852SL.jpg)

Not pictured: 1x Spiteful Smith, 1x Spectral Knight, 3x Savannah Highmane. (The last highmane may have been another 6 cost. If it was, I never drew it.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on February 17, 2015, 10:02:30 am
My first non-Mage 12 with paladin. 2xConsecration, 2xTrue Silver and 2xHoW + many yeti like minions and single 7+ minion (StWCh)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on February 17, 2015, 11:23:57 am
Hammer of Wrath isn't considered enough of a bomb for me to recognize that abbreviation without me thinking a while.  Good run, sounds like mostly solid drafting instead of a 5x truesilver stack
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on February 17, 2015, 11:39:33 am
I just went 0-2, then won 6 games in a row as I queued against some of the worst players I've seen in a long time. I was wondering if morning is better to play than evening for arena? Or was I just really lucky with who I played against.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on February 17, 2015, 12:13:05 pm
I just went 0-2, then won 6 games in a row as I queued against some of the worst players I've seen in a long time. I was wondering if morning is better to play than evening for arena? Or was I just really lucky with who I played against.

Probably a little of column A, a little of column B.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on February 19, 2015, 08:25:10 am
I play every morning during my morning constitutional. I also play a little throughout the day. I can say that morning time definitely brings out the less skilled players.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on February 20, 2015, 11:19:25 pm
Paladin arena, very first pick.

Avenging Wrath, Coghammer, Sword of Justice
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on February 21, 2015, 04:25:40 am
I find weekends are a lot easier in arena.  I've reached 7 wins at the weekend, and almost always get at least my stake back.  I've tried twice on weekday evenings recently and had two very embarrassing experiences.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 01, 2015, 04:40:23 pm
Just played an Arena game in which I played 5 Consecrations and my opponent played Alexstrasza and Ragnaros on consecutive turns

I killed the Rag by topdecking an Abusive Sergeant, which I used on my 6/1 Piloted Sky Golem

Then the last card in my opponent's deck was Mind Control, which he used on my Boulderfist Ogre

I topdecked Sen'jin right after that and then Gruul the next turn, but it was too late :(

(the two cards left in my deck at game end were Puddlestomper and King Mukla)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on March 09, 2015, 05:36:09 pm
Just went 12-0 as mage. Highlights of the deck were 3 fireballs, 1 polymorph, 1 blizzard, 1 flamestrike, and the only weak minions were 1 angry chicken and 1 Oasis snapjaw. The chicken came from the option of Alarmo, chicken or Ancient Watcher. There was only 1 game that I came close to losing, otherwise I had frost bolts and a flamecannon for early removal and strong end game minions to keep me alive. Also 3 fireballs means tons of game ended on turn 8-9 with just a huge burst of damage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on March 09, 2015, 07:28:10 pm
I killed the Rag by topdecking an Abusive Sergeant, which I used on my 6/1 Piloted Sky Golem

I just realized...how did this work?  Was the PSG immune?  But then the +2 attack doesn't work, right?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 09, 2015, 11:18:29 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2015, 06:41:49 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.

But if you used the Abusive Sargeant on a 6/1 PSG (which is what you said), the PSG would die before you could trade it with Ragnaros.  If he's immune/shielded, does the +2 attack still happen?  That's my confusion.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on March 10, 2015, 06:47:32 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.

But if you used the Abusive Sargeant on a 6/1 PSG (which is what you said), the PSG would die before you could trade it with Ragnaros.  If he's immune/shielded, does the +2 attack still happen?  That's my confusion.

You're confusing Abusive Sergeant with Cruel Taskmaster.

And if it were Cruel Taskmaster, it gets the buff whether or not it takes the damage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 10, 2015, 07:17:28 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.

But if you used the Abusive Sargeant on a 6/1 PSG (which is what you said), the PSG would die before you could trade it with Ragnaros.  If he's immune/shielded, does the +2 attack still happen?  That's my confusion.

You're confusing Abusive Sergeant with Cruel Taskmaster.

And if it were Cruel Taskmaster, it gets the buff whether or not it takes the damage.
OH! I couldn't figure out why he was confused.

It's funny, Abusive Seargeant doesn't abuse his target.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on March 10, 2015, 07:19:22 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.

But if you used the Abusive Sargeant on a 6/1 PSG (which is what you said), the PSG would die before you could trade it with Ragnaros.  If he's immune/shielded, does the +2 attack still happen?  That's my confusion.

You're confusing Abusive Sergeant with Cruel Taskmaster.

And if it were Cruel Taskmaster, it gets the buff whether or not it takes the damage.

Oh, duh.  That's for pointing that out.

OH! I couldn't figure out why he was confused.

It's funny, Abusive Seargeant doesn't abuse his target.

Yeah, I think that's why I mess that up.  Like, I think I always thought Abusive did the damage for buff thing.  Makes sense, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 10, 2015, 07:22:34 pm
The Piloted Sky Golem was 6/1 for reasons unrelated to the Ragnaros.

But if you used the Abusive Sargeant on a 6/1 PSG (which is what you said), the PSG would die before you could trade it with Ragnaros.  If he's immune/shielded, does the +2 attack still happen?  That's my confusion.

You're confusing Abusive Sergeant with Cruel Taskmaster.

And if it were Cruel Taskmaster, it gets the buff whether or not it takes the damage.

Oh, duh.  That's for pointing that out.

OH! I couldn't figure out why he was confused.

It's funny, Abusive Seargeant doesn't abuse his target.

Yeah, I think that's why I mess that up.  Like, I think I always thought Abusive did the damage for buff thing.  Makes sense, doesn't it?
A lot of the flavor in Hearthstone is messed up because they want to reuse old card images and they start off with cards as one thing in alpha and switch them entirely by beta (like Warsong Commander would be more like a teacher at this point).
My most recent pet peeve is that Puddlestomper is a cheap vanilla creature with no skills but in his art it looks like he is summoning some powerful water magic.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on March 19, 2015, 01:26:02 pm
ADWCTA Tier List Update and commentary on the update: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2zkdv5/adwctas_arena_tier_list_march_19_update/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on March 19, 2015, 02:04:41 pm
Yep, Warrior ties Warlock for lowest win rate. I've said it before that Warrior is one of the worst, not average. It may be close, but Warrior is for sure at the bottom with Warlock.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 19, 2015, 08:10:23 pm
Yep, Warrior ties Warlock for lowest win rate. I've said it before that Warrior is one of the worst, not average. It may be close, but Warrior is for sure at the bottom with Warlock.
It goes to show how arena balance hangs on threads, since at points in closed beta was Warrior was top 1 or top 3.

It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on March 19, 2015, 09:58:00 pm
It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on March 20, 2015, 01:21:22 am
It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.

Sure, but 10 Fiery War Axen is going to do better against the field than 10 Water Elementals.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Twistedarcher on March 20, 2015, 01:48:31 am
It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.

Sure, but 10 Fiery War Axen is going to do better against the field than 10 Water Elementals.

Are you sure? One or two water elementals is tough enough, I can't imagine many decks being able to handle them every turn. It's one of the best arena minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 20, 2015, 02:52:58 am
Just won an arena game with 24 health and 12 armor as Hunter. Piloted Shredder -> Armorsmith -> Unleash the Hounds

It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.

Sure, but 10 Fiery War Axen is going to do better against the field than 10 Water Elementals.

Are you sure? One or two water elementals is tough enough, I can't imagine many decks being able to handle them every turn. It's one of the best arena minions.
10 Naturalizes tho
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 20, 2015, 12:44:06 pm
It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.
It's the best card in a vacuum, not the best card to stack.  It's about how hilarious it is, not about how good it is. "Oh hey, it's turn 2 again, I get winning board position again!"

I did 9-0 with a Fiery War Axe stack when I got 3 bloodsail corsairs to go with them, but Water Elemental stacks or Truesilver Stacks are probably better (but way less fun! Who wants to end games with all their mana crystals?!?)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on March 20, 2015, 12:57:33 pm
Just won an arena game with 24 health and 12 armor as Hunter. Piloted Shredder -> Armorsmith -> Unleash the Hounds

It's still the only class with the best card of Hearthstone and transitive best common/basic of hearthstone, and so offers maximum hilarity from single card stacking arena runs.
I assume you're talking about Fiery War Axe here. But is it really the best class common/basic to stack in arena? I would not want to be a Warrior with 10 FWAs against a Mage with 10 Water Elementals, for example.

Sure, but 10 Fiery War Axen is going to do better against the field than 10 Water Elementals.

Are you sure? One or two water elementals is tough enough, I can't imagine many decks being able to handle them every turn. It's one of the best arena minions.
10 Naturalizes tho

The Arena Milldeck dream.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 21, 2015, 05:19:30 pm
I just went 12-0: http://arenamastery.com/72Jv Forgot to enter the draft D: I had 2x Backstab, 2x Deadly Poison, 0x Eviscerate, 1x SI:7, 1x The Black Knight... and some other cards.

It was a pretty good Rogue deck, but to be honest I think I mostly just got lucky. I didn't get a single Flamestrike, Consecration, or Holy Nova played against me the entire run, none of my opponents games 8-10 played a card on turn 2, and my Black Knight got some crazy value in a couple close games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 21, 2015, 07:43:39 pm
Weird
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on March 23, 2015, 11:39:09 am
Yep, Warrior ties Warlock for lowest win rate. I've said it before that Warrior is one of the worst, not average. It may be close, but Warrior is for sure at the bottom with Warlock.

Warrior definitely has the worst hero power for arena, and the class card quality has gone down from what it was. The new cards (Warbot, Warmaul) are terrible. And even Fiery War Axe has gotten worse due to more 4 health 3 drops, but I still can't imagine it's as bad as Warlock. Warlock has the second-worst arena hero power (assuming a strong tempo meta) and way worse card quality.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 23, 2015, 03:24:58 pm
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on March 23, 2015, 04:55:31 pm
I've won games with various classes simply by "out carding" my opponent. Warlock's hero power can win games simply by being able to have cards when other decks empty their hands. Warrior hero power does nothing at all, unless maybe you have 1 Shield Slam or something.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 23, 2015, 05:14:13 pm
Every class but Warrior can activate their hero power several times during the game and be ok with that.  Warrior has the worst hero power and really can't be ok with that. 

The solution to playing a class that needs to avoid spending mana on hero power is to spend mana on cards instead, so the idea would be that you draft a higher curve to guarantee that you always have cards in hand to be an alternative use for your mana.

To attempt to have so much mana cost in your hand at all times that you never needed to use hero power to avoid empty hand syndrome, you would have to run tons of boulderfist ogres and war golems.  But then you would miss your curve in earlier turns.  The solution that constructed control warrior uses cards that are cheaper than War Golem and thus fit into a curve, but draw you more cards that in turn have mana costs, so that way you don't get empty hand syndrome.  That would be Shield Block and Acolyte of Pain, which are really critical.  War Golem is way worse than Dr. Boom or Sylvanas, so the quality disparity between common fatties and legendary fatties is another big factor.

My best Warrior arena runs are always when I get lots of Gnomish Inventors.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on March 23, 2015, 05:22:10 pm
Warlock hero power can't have any significant affect until at least turn 7, because it's quite hard to run out of cards before then. And if you take enough face damage, your hero power actually hurts. Playing against Warlock is so easy. You just hit face with everything, and he can never use hero power.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 23, 2015, 05:32:33 pm
Warrior hero power can't have an effect until even later!  Remember the MtG adage, "The only life point that matters is the last one"
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on March 23, 2015, 05:51:47 pm
I agree Warrior hero power is worse, but I don't think it's as much worse as you suggest (not that either of us have quantified what we are saying). Warlock hero power often will do literally nothing -- or worse.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 23, 2015, 09:29:01 pm
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Is Dagger Mastery really that much better than Fireblast?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 23, 2015, 10:17:29 pm
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Is Dagger Mastery really that much better than Fireblast?
It took me a while to get the joke, which means it was a very good one.  However, if someone could explain it for us, it would become even funnier.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on March 24, 2015, 08:26:57 pm
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Is Dagger Mastery really that much better than Fireblast?
It took me a while to get the joke, which means it was a very good one.  However, if someone could explain it for us, it would become even funnier.

8th worst = 2nd best
9th worst = best

I cannot explain jokes verbosely because I have no sense of meta-humor. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 25, 2015, 03:36:08 am
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Is Dagger Mastery really that much better than Fireblast?
It took me a while to get the joke, which means it was a very good one.  However, if someone could explain it for us, it would become even funnier.

8th worst = 2nd best
9th worst = best

I cannot explain jokes verbosely because I have no sense of meta-humor. I'm sorry.
Actually, the best hero power is heroic Frost Breath, and the second best is... probably heroic Frost Blast or heroic Unbalancing Strike. INFERNO! and Mind Shatter are pretty good too, if you don't like those.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on March 25, 2015, 08:20:58 am
You're failing to appreciate the girth of the gap between the 8th worst hero power and the 9th worst hero power.
Is Dagger Mastery really that much better than Fireblast?
It took me a while to get the joke, which means it was a very good one.  However, if someone could explain it for us, it would become even funnier.

8th worst = 2nd best
9th worst = best

I cannot explain jokes verbosely because I have no sense of meta-humor. I'm sorry.
Actually, the best hero power is heroic Frost Breath, and the second best is... probably heroic Frost Blast or heroic Unbalancing Strike. INFERNO! and Mind Shatter are pretty good too, if you don't like those.
"Hero" in the loosest sense possible.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pacovf on March 25, 2015, 08:36:25 am
Actually, the best hero power is heroic Frost Breath, and the second best is... probably heroic Frost Blast or heroic Unbalancing Strike. INFERNO! and Mind Shatter are pretty good too, if you don't like those.

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/62/62f538b129e13afc6c7d9b9278b63f63f4c91e1f8fd1077c36e088039bf538f8.jpg)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 25, 2015, 05:25:08 pm
But we were discussing Arena.  Although epic, I think there is enough chance of Maexxna getting offered Steamwheedle Sniper that Web Wrap can guarantee victory.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on March 25, 2015, 06:40:49 pm
But we were discussing Arena.  Although epic, I think there is enough chance of Maexxna getting offered Steamwheedle Sniper that Web Wrap can guarantee victory.

Think of the Boss Cards you could draft if their cards were available to them as drafting possibilities! Death Chargers! The 3 Horsemen (one of whom is a lady)! Mr Bigglesworth! Pure Cold! Mutating Injections! Jaws!

(Note: Some of these cards are not worth drafting at all, but some would be insane.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on March 25, 2015, 06:52:18 pm
Hmmm, I didn't think about the possibility of Tutorial bosses, but Mukla and Illidan both have cards that would be fun to play. Well depending on how crazy Metamorphosis is.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on March 26, 2015, 12:08:04 am
But we were discussing Arena.  Although epic, I think there is enough chance of Maexxna getting offered Steamwheedle Sniper that Web Wrap can guarantee victory.

Think of the Boss Cards you could draft if their cards were available to them as drafting possibilities! Death Chargers! The 3 Horsemen (one of whom is a lady)! Mr Bigglesworth! Pure Cold! Mutating Injections! Jaws!

(Note: Some of these cards are not worth drafting at all, but some would be insane.)
Aah! The horror! I don't want to be reminded of that nightmare.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on March 26, 2015, 01:13:08 am
But we were discussing Arena.  Although epic, I think there is enough chance of Maexxna getting offered Steamwheedle Sniper that Web Wrap can guarantee victory.

Think of the Boss Cards you could draft if their cards were available to them as drafting possibilities! Death Chargers! The 3 Horsemen (one of whom is a lady)! Mr Bigglesworth! Pure Cold! Mutating Injections! Jaws!

(Note: Some of these cards are not worth drafting at all, but some would be insane.)
Aah! The horror! I don't want to be reminded of that nightmare.

Don't worry, you can have new nightmares when the expansion comes out!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on March 28, 2015, 05:02:13 am
Guys.

It happened.

http://imgur.com/nfk3oE5,ldSa7t7#0

That Annoy-o-tron ultimately soaked up 29 damage, and this game was my third loss of the arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on March 30, 2015, 02:23:50 pm
Haha, I've seen Deathwing tauntstalled to death, but never seen it trolled by annoyotron.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on March 31, 2015, 09:16:11 am
Nearly wnet 12-0 for the first time.
In the final game, i had it nearly locked down, but my opponent topdecked his only way to win and unleashed the hounds on me.

Also i got only 245 gold for 12 wins :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 02, 2015, 04:28:17 pm
Just drafted one of the craziest decks I've ever had, and am curious what you guys think of my final pick. Deck so far:

Zombie Chow
Stormforged Axe
Crackle
Bloodfen Raptor
Bluegill Warrior
Flametongue Totem
Mechwarper
2x Whirling Zap-o-matic
2x Feral Spirit
Goblin Sapper
Mana Tide Totem
Spider Tank
4x Unbound Elemental
2x Mechanical Yeti
2x Piloted Shredder
Stormwind Knight
Antique Healbot
Silver Hand Knight
Sludge Belcher
Frost Elemental
Dr. Boom
War Golem

Final pick: Powermace, Lil' Exorcist, Lightning Storm

What would you do?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 02, 2015, 05:01:07 pm
Presumably you are picking between Powermace and Lightning Storm?

Even though you've got a 10 (11?) Mech cards I'd probably pick Lightning Storm. You don't have any AoE and having 1 AoE card is extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 02, 2015, 05:02:17 pm
Also, that deck is super awesome, is it premature to offer congrats on 12 wins?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 02, 2015, 05:42:47 pm
I agree that Lightning Storm was probably better, especially with 4 Unbound Elementals, but I ended up picking Powermace anyway. I'd never had an arena deck with Powermace, much less one where it'd be as strong as it is here.

Also, that deck is super awesome, is it premature to offer congrats on 12 wins?
Well, we'll see. No Hexes, Fire Elementals, or cards with "Lightning" in their names makes me unsure. I think big taunts will be a problem.

I'm 1-0 so far; in the one game, my opponent got a dream Truesilver Champion and was able to clear both my Mech Yetis and a Piloted Shredder with board control, but I grinded my way back through pure Flametongue value, and he ultimately resigned once I got out a 6/7 stealthed Whirling Zap-o-matic.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 02, 2015, 11:43:44 pm
Update: So... I went 3-3. One game I got rolled over by Consecrations and Boulderfist Ogres, one game my opponent opened with Coin -> Nerubian Egg into Rockbiter Weapon to kill my Zap-o-matic, one game my T3 Unbound Elemental got Freezing Trapped and I just got out-tempoed from there, and one game I got permafrozen by Water Elementals with a 2/2 weapon in hand and my opponent at 1 health.

In short, ridiculous minion value is not enough to carry a deck if it doesn't have any reach, hard removal, AOE, or the Warlock hero power.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 02, 2015, 11:50:43 pm
In short, ridiculous minion value is not enough to carry a deck if it doesn't have any reach, hard removal, AOE, or the Warlock hero power.

This isn't true. Minion value can carry you far even with just 1 or 2 decent spells. And if you're a Hunter if can win many many games just by being aggressive and using your hero power a lot. However, many value minions often are valuble becuase of their battle cry. You want more card that are good when you're behind than when you're ahead. Like Bomb Lobber or Kodo, since they help keep and retake the board. Madder Bomber too, but he can't be played to maintain the board, only to catch up. Only big minions will lose to aggressive decks and decks with good removal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 11, 2015, 04:22:27 pm
is 5 truesilvers too many? I just decided to take them all.

EDIT: The deck went 11 wins. 5 truesilvers is quite good. I wonder what my opponents thought when I played Fel Reaver and they burned through 3 truesilvers after I had already played 2 of them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 12, 2015, 10:02:36 pm
Just got two Coldlight Oracles and a Vanish played against me by a Rogue in Arena. Burned 3 cards in total, including a Boulderfist Ogre I had in play. I still won with 25 health.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 16, 2015, 10:17:02 am
So now I've picked Mechgineer Thermaplugg twice in arena (over worse options) and I have to say he's not bad. In the same way Kel Thuzad is pretty great because there's usually minions on the board in arena, Thermaplugg does fairly well because you can usually get value off of him. Also his 9 attack is more threatening than Kel thuzad, although I still wouldn't pick Thermaplugg of kel Thuzad.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 16, 2015, 12:24:10 pm
So now I've picked Mechgineer Thermaplugg twice in arena (over worse options) and I have to say he's not bad. In the same way Kel Thuzad is pretty great because there's usually minions on the board in arena, Thermaplugg does fairly well because you can usually get value off of him. Also his 9 attack is more threatening than Kel thuzad, although I still wouldn't pick Thermaplugg of kel Thuzad.

Yeah, I'd say he's actually pretty good in Arena I just finished a run with him (7 wins) where he definitely won me the game a few times. Like Kel he does benefit a lot from you having some sort of board presence when you play him so you can trade and get a couple gnomes.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0r580o
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on April 16, 2015, 03:46:16 pm
Most of the big guys that are not playable in constucted are pretty decent in arena. Usually your opponent doesn't have the burst to kill you from half health if you spend on that mana on things that are not taunt or removal. And the rarity of BGH makes that less of a threat to be a major tempo swing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 16, 2015, 07:20:37 pm
This guy's deck is crazy!

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/p26nl5

(http://i.imgur.com/jDCphfx.png)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 16, 2015, 07:26:00 pm
Is it? It's got lots of board clear and removal which is good, but it lacks minions and the minions it has are pretty average.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 16, 2015, 07:39:20 pm
I did say crazy, not good.

First game: Game bugs out and doesn't let me do anything on turn 12 with Deathwing in hand and opponent lethal on board. I lose.
Second game: Opponent gets Bane of Doom into Mal'ganis on turn 5. I win anyway.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on April 16, 2015, 11:51:30 pm
Oh you Jester
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 19, 2015, 02:37:19 pm
Just got my second 12 win arena run. 12-2 with a Shaman.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/133647

4 Whirling Zap-O-Matics and 4 Fire Elementals make for a really strong deck. Bloodlust + Whirling Zao-Os is really great too. Won a lot of games with that combo. I also had some cheap taunts to protect the Zap-Os which made it difficult for my opponents to remove them. I'm very pleased with this :). My 4 drops were all really good quality too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 19, 2015, 03:27:55 pm
Opponent dropped Deathwing to kill three of my minions and prevent lethal. Unfortunately for him, my hand was not lacking in answers...

http://imgur.com/4fYs688
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on April 19, 2015, 03:40:22 pm
Way to BM - (or lose, I guess)
Freeze Deathwing, play Mirror Image, turn your two illusions into sheep.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 19, 2015, 11:05:14 pm
That is an amazing response to Deathwing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 27, 2015, 07:13:23 pm
So today I've gone 11, 12, 10, 6. I that's pretty good. I found mages with tons of freeze do really well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on April 28, 2015, 12:45:41 pm
So today I've gone 11, 12, 10, 6. I that's pretty good. I found mages with tons of freeze do really well.
Kripp has been speculating that lots of new players on phones have been flooding Arena, making it easier to do well.

Put all your money in arena!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 28, 2015, 03:45:01 pm
So today I've gone 11, 12, 10, 6. I that's pretty good. I found mages with tons of freeze do really well.
Kripp has been speculating that lots of new players on phones have been flooding Arena, making it easier to do well.

Put all your money in arena!

I've noticed it too. But even at 9-12 wins the decks are just as good as normal arena good decks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on April 28, 2015, 05:53:36 pm
So today I've gone 11, 12, 10, 6. I that's pretty good. I found mages with tons of freeze do really well.
Kripp has been speculating that lots of new players on phones have been flooding Arena, making it easier to do well.

Put all your money in arena!

I've noticed it too. But even at 9-12 wins the decks are just as good as normal arena good decks.
When you say normal arena good deck, do you mean decks you'd expect to get 7-9 wins, or 10-12 wins?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 28, 2015, 06:49:29 pm
So today I've gone 11, 12, 10, 6. I that's pretty good. I found mages with tons of freeze do really well.
Kripp has been speculating that lots of new players on phones have been flooding Arena, making it easier to do well.

Put all your money in arena!

I've noticed it too. But even at 9-12 wins the decks are just as good as normal arena good decks.
When you say normal arena good deck, do you mean decks you'd expect to get 7-9 wins, or 10-12 wins?

9-12 win decks. 7 wins can be had by most decks if they face even just medium strength decks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on April 29, 2015, 11:41:26 am
There may be some truth to that speculation... I've just come back to hearthstone and have been playing more arena, and playing poorly because it's been a while. I did draft a deck while half asleep last night though, and won my first game with it. With all the new cards, I'm not sure what  doing in arena anymore. How did I do?
http://www.arenamastery.com/arena.php?arena=554460#gameEntry
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 29, 2015, 01:47:05 pm
I think you need to use the "Share this arena" Link, that one won't connect for me.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 29, 2015, 02:46:44 pm
Is it just me or does Dark Iron Skulker's mere existence make Rogue way stronger in arena?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on April 29, 2015, 04:08:11 pm
Is it just me or does Dark Iron Skulker's mere existence make Rogue way stronger in arena?

It is very good. But it's a rare and not enough to push it even close to mage. I think Priest is still better overall too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on April 29, 2015, 04:13:34 pm
I think it's one of those things you play around if it doesn't cost you too much to do so but it's not going to stop people from putting up multiple 2-health minions or cause them to damage their own stuff for no other reason. So it's existence helps a little, but mostly only if it's in your deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on April 29, 2015, 04:35:06 pm
I think you need to use the "Share this arena" Link, that one won't connect for me.
http://arenamastery.com/nCs7
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on April 29, 2015, 05:04:41 pm
I think you need to use the "Share this arena" Link, that one won't connect for me.
http://arenamastery.com/nCs7

I don't play Warlock much, so take this with a grain of salt, but here's where I differ from you:
6. I think LotA is generally better than Unstable Ghoul.
8. Healer is better than Gurubashi, even more so because as Warlock your life is a real resource.
10. Deathlord is pretty bad in arena. You're better off with Blademaster
11. Darkbomb > Faerie Dragon. In general, early game removal is better than early game minions because of the tempo. You get the damage immediately.
12. Hungry Dragon is really good. There are very few things you should take over it. Probably just Piloted Shredder and OP class cards. Warlock doesn't have any of those. Shadowbolt is good, but not great.
16. You might want to think about War Golem here. You don't have any big dudes yet, and Panda is a little worse for Warlock than for other classes since the card advantage isn't as important.
21. Soulfire is still really good in arena. I think I still take it over any 1-2 drop minion. Same idea as Darkbomb.
24. Again, Soulfire.

EDIT: I was looking at 4/28 Warlock
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 29, 2015, 05:05:21 pm
I think you need to use the "Share this arena" Link, that one won't connect for me.
http://arenamastery.com/nCs7

Had to click around a bit to find your Arena run, but found it. (I was looking at the Hunter draft.)

Looking at your draft there's a few things I'd comment on:
1) I don't think you value Blackwing Technician highly enough as a card without dragons. It's certainly better than Windfury Harpy (#7) and probably better than Cobra Shot (#9). A 2/4 body for 3 mana is at least an Average card.
2) Having a Zombie Chow in your hand at the start of the game is so valuable that I'd take it over an Ancient Brewmaster (#6), which has a decent body for 4 mana, but I find bouncing a minion back into your hand hurts your board as often as it helps it by using it to recast a battlecry or heal a minion.
3) At the point where you turned down a Force Tank Max in favour of a Faerie Dragon (#16) I think you needed the Force Tank a lot more. You only had one real big drop at that point (Boulderfist Ogre) and you already had several playable 2s. With over half the draft to go you weren't desperate for a 2 right then, but Force Tank is a really good big drop.
4) Shieldbearer sucks (#26), I'd take a Hyena with no Beasts over that card. (Plus you had an Unleash which is at least one card you can combo a Hyena with).
5) I think I like Madder Bomber's ability to turn the game around more than I like the survivability Arcane Nullifier (#27) gives you, but that's at least a close call. Nullifier might have been the correct choice.
6) In your last choice (#30), Bomb Lobber should not be underestimated and fits your deck a lot better than a Deathlord. Bomb Lobbers might have small bodies for 5 mana, but that 4 damage is a big swing and usually lets you get a 2 for 1 off the card. Deathlord usually kills 2 little things, but if it's up against a 4 drop like a yeti it sucks because gives your opponent a card for free. Bomb Lobbers are also more aggressive cards letting you surprise remove a card when you just want to drop some damage whereas I think of a Deathlord as a card that helps you stall the game for the late game (when your deck is better for early-mid game than it is for late game).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on April 29, 2015, 05:24:14 pm
I think you need to use the "Share this arena" Link, that one won't connect for me.
http://arenamastery.com/nCs7

I don't play Warlock much, so take this with a grain of salt, but here's where I differ from you:
6. I think LotA is generally better than Unstable Ghoul.
8. Healer is better than Gurubashi, even more so because as Warlock your life is a real resource.
10. Deathlord is pretty bad in arena. You're better off with Blademaster
11. Darkbomb > Faerie Dragon. In general, early game removal is better than early game minions because of the tempo. You get the damage immediately.
12. Hungry Dragon is really good. There are very few things you should take over it. Probably just Piloted Shredder and OP class cards. Warlock doesn't have any of those. Shadowbolt is good, but not great.
16. You might want to think about War Golem here. You don't have any big dudes yet, and Panda is a little worse for Warlock than for other classes since the card advantage isn't as important.
21. Soulfire is still really good in arena. I think I still take it over any 1-2 drop minion. Same idea as Darkbomb.
24. Again, Soulfire.

EDIT: I was looking at 4/28 Warlock

I agree with what HME said, plus I'd add that you drafted a lot of AOE that hits everything (that demon spell, sheep, Unstable Ghoul) and minions that would die to that AOE. Those cards that AOE the board are not nearly as good if most of your minions die to them. When you have cards like that you need to value cards with more health more highly. (So Gnomish Inventor over Faerie Dragon, River Croc over Voodoo Doctor).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jdaki on April 30, 2015, 04:07:52 pm
After someone said we should play arena because lots of noobs on there I thought I would go back on- have always seemed to be much better at arena than constructed. Blizzard obviously wants me to enjoy the run- drafted three legendaries. And not all junk ones either- have a Tirion, trying out a Bolvar, and got Sneed's. Have two consecration and truesilvers as well...
So far 6-0, though not doing very well against this mage right now...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 30, 2015, 06:03:15 pm
Is it just me or does Dark Iron Skulker's mere existence make Rogue way stronger in arena?

It is very good. But it's a rare and not enough to push it even close to mage. I think Priest is still better overall too.
For what it's worth, ADWCTA's post on the BRM Arena meta (http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/34f5jp/arena_tier_list_heartharena_brm_update_is_live/) contains the following:

Quote from: ADWCTA
New Class Order. Here it is: Mage, Paladin | Rogue, Warlock | Druid, Shaman | Hunter, Priest, Warrior.
For lower ranked players, Priest and Rogue may move up and down a tier respectively.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on April 30, 2015, 07:17:16 pm
I was more looking at the hunter deck, but thanks for also checking out the warlock deck.  I haven't done much warlock in arena, but I'd figured I'd give it a go since I don't have any good warlock cards for constructed.
#8: I just kinda have a weak spot for Gurubashi...It's been so good for me in the past.  Also, I had an AoE that would hurt him, which in his case is actually ok.  But I definitely see how the healing is better
#10: Why is deathlord bad in arena?
#12: I see how hungry dragon is good.  I just really have a hard time determining what stats make a card a good body, and what stats make a card a weak body.  Looking now though, he's same mana cost as yeti, and much stronger

Hunter:
You're right, I don't value the blackwing technician as a body w/o the bonus correctly.  Again, I'm realllly bad at evaluating that.
Zombie chow is great at the beginning, but what are my chances of actually getting it turn 1/2?
I don't know why, but I've always had a soft spot for shieldbearer.  I know in my head he sucks, but in my heart I like him too much...
I also want to like madder bomber, but I have been having enough trouble with my mad bombers recently that the madder bomber just feels so much more dangerous.  Especially since by the time I get 5 mana I'm hoping to have board control and will therefore have more targets for his bombs. 
That's also something I never really thought of with bomb lobber.  I mostly passed him up because the body seemed so weak, but I see now that he would probably go 2-for-1 regularly.

Thanks for all the help guys, really helping me get back into the arena mindset.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on April 30, 2015, 07:31:41 pm
Here's my most recent draft:
http://arenamastery.com/R0Er

What I thought about it
1) As soon as I clicked this one, I regretted not getting the giant.  But I also really wanted to try a new minion...
4) This one was tough, because I really like flesheating ghoul, but I also wanted some AoE
5) Probably my hardest decision.  I really think the shredder is great, but so is the ooze... in the end I didn't end up getting all that many 2-drop minions, mostly spells, so I think it was the right pick, but at that point, was it?
7) Eviscerate over zombie chow was a tough call too.  I didn't know I would get another 2 eviscerates later.  It's just so good...
12) I'm kinda excited about volcanic drake.  It just seems sooo good for rogue
14) Is the drawback on mechanical yeti all that bad?  Because I don't think it is.  So that's why I picked it over GI
16) If I had to go back, I'd probably pick frostwolf since I didn't end up with many big minions
22) I considered antique healbot, since the health is important for rogue.  But I only had 1 eviscerate at this point.  If I had 2, I would have picked it

 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on April 30, 2015, 08:16:40 pm
Here's my most recent draft:
http://arenamastery.com/R0Er

What I thought about it
1) As soon as I clicked this one, I regretted not getting the giant.  But I also really wanted to try a new minion...
4) This one was tough, because I really like flesheating ghoul, but I also wanted some AoE
5) Probably my hardest decision.  I really think the shredder is great, but so is the ooze... in the end I didn't end up getting all that many 2-drop minions, mostly spells, so I think it was the right pick, but at that point, was it?
7) Eviscerate over zombie chow was a tough call too.  I didn't know I would get another 2 eviscerates later.  It's just so good...
12) I'm kinda excited about volcanic drake.  It just seems sooo good for rogue
14) Is the drawback on mechanical yeti all that bad?  Because I don't think it is.  So that's why I picked it over GI
16) If I had to go back, I'd probably pick frostwolf since I didn't end up with many big minions
22) I considered antique healbot, since the health is important for rogue.  But I only had 1 eviscerate at this point.  If I had 2, I would have picked it

1) Recombobulator and Molten Giant are pretty close in terms of quality, I think, though Molten Giant is probably the right pick in Rogue.
Re: 4) Nah, I think you made the right choice for sure.
5) Shredder is the best neutral common. I would take it here every time.
Re: 12) Why Rogue in particular?
Re: 14) It's symmetrical, so not a drawback at all. Mech Yeti is basically Chillwind Yeti in most decks.
27) I think I would take Sap here. Argent Squire is underwhelming, and you don't have a great way to deal with big taunts yet. You are really lacking early game drops, though, so it's hard to say.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on April 30, 2015, 08:34:39 pm
Here's my most recent draft:
http://arenamastery.com/R0Er

What I thought about it
1) As soon as I clicked this one, I regretted not getting the giant.  But I also really wanted to try a new minion...
4) This one was tough, because I really like flesheating ghoul, but I also wanted some AoE
5) Probably my hardest decision.  I really think the shredder is great, but so is the ooze... in the end I didn't end up getting all that many 2-drop minions, mostly spells, so I think it was the right pick, but at that point, was it?
7) Eviscerate over zombie chow was a tough call too.  I didn't know I would get another 2 eviscerates later.  It's just so good...
12) I'm kinda excited about volcanic drake.  It just seems sooo good for rogue
14) Is the drawback on mechanical yeti all that bad?  Because I don't think it is.  So that's why I picked it over GI
16) If I had to go back, I'd probably pick frostwolf since I didn't end up with many big minions
22) I considered antique healbot, since the health is important for rogue.  But I only had 1 eviscerate at this point.  If I had 2, I would have picked it

1) Recombobulator and Molten Giant are pretty close in terms of quality, I think, though Molten Giant is probably the right pick in Rogue.
Re: 4) Nah, I think you made the right choice for sure.
5) Shredder is the best neutral common. I would take it here every time.
Re: 12) Why Rogue in particular?
Re: 14) It's symmetrical, so not a drawback at all. Mech Yeti is basically Chillwind Yeti in most decks.
27) I think I would take Sap here. Argent Squire is underwhelming, and you don't have a great way to deal with big taunts yet. You are really lacking early game drops, though, so it's hard to say.
12) Because rogue is more about tempo, so you'll be killing a lot of their minions per turn, with combos and weapons.
14) Yeah, I debated about sap, but having only a few low cost minions made that harder...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on May 01, 2015, 04:02:33 am
For what it's worth, ADWCTA's post on the BRM Arena meta (http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/34f5jp/arena_tier_list_heartharena_brm_update_is_live/) contains the following:

Quote from: ADWCTA
New Class Order. Here it is: Mage, Paladin | Rogue, Warlock | Druid, Shaman | Hunter, Priest, Warrior.
For lower ranked players, Priest and Rogue may move up and down a tier respectively.

I wonder how much Mage is better than Paladin. I always pick Paladin over everything else because it is very powerful and I'm more familiar with it than any other class, would it be worth it to start picking Mage over Paladin instead?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 01, 2015, 11:00:53 am
1) Recombob and Molten are probably about equally good in a vacuum, but in Rogue since you often drop your own health Molten Giant is better. (Recombob is still a pretty good card though).
5) Ooze is good, but Piloted Shredder is top tier.
23) I probably would have taken the Gnomish Inventor over the Ironfur Grizzly, but that's a pretty close choice. Gnomish Inventor is a good card though, always worth considering (you get the body of a 3 drop, but for just one mana you get a card too, it's a good deal).

I agree with pretty much every other choice you made. You got offered a lot of crap that run, but still got a decent deck out of it. Well played.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on May 05, 2015, 02:33:47 pm
I have a deck with Thrallmar Farseer and Blessed Champion in it, and I'm not overly pleased about this fact, but then this happened:

I had 14 health and an empty board (I had cards in hand, but no taunts or removal so it looked pretty bad, but winnable with some luck). Opponent had 22 health and 12 damage on the board. I played Thrallmar Farseer, Blessing of Kings and Argent Protector, hoping to get rid of some of his minions that way. He killed the Argent Protector and dealt 10 damage to me. At the start of my turn, I drew the Blessed Champion and won.


I'm still not overly pleased about the fact that I have a deck with Thrallmar Farseer and Blessed Champion in it, but that was pretty nice anyway.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 09, 2015, 12:54:33 am
Yesterday my opponent procced an Avenge on a River Crocolisk to bring it to 5/5, then the next turn played a Coghammer to give it Divine Shield and Taunt. So I played my Black Knight.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on May 09, 2015, 02:41:41 am
Yesterday my opponent procced an Avenge on a River Crocolisk to bring it to 5/5, then the next turn played a Coghammer to give it Divine Shield and Taunt. So I played my Black Knight.

Was there much qqing?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 09, 2015, 04:19:06 am
Not as much as there will be when I bring this Ramp Druid deck into Arena:

(http://i.imgur.com/8DCEm93l.png) (http://imgur.com/8DCEm93)

(in before 3-3 because no board clear)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on May 09, 2015, 05:30:16 am
That deck is nuts. 2x wild growth backed by good card draw (nourish, ancient of lore, gnomish inventor) and so many okay-to-great taunts (annoy-o-tron, 3x robo cub, unstable ghoul, shieldmasta, 3x dotc, belcher, ancient of war, lumberer). The minion quality of the rest is pretty high also.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 09, 2015, 12:32:28 pm
Yep, 4-3. Two of the losses I expected, just got board wiped and then out-tempoed, and had no way to catch back up. The other loss was crazy though; it was a to a Priest whose deck was even greedier than mine. He did nothing on turns 1-3 as I played two Wild Growths, then came back with 3x Temple Enforcer and 2x Mind Control.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on May 09, 2015, 03:15:45 pm
Yep, 4-3. Two of the losses I expected, just got board wiped and then out-tempoed, and had no way to catch back up. The other loss was crazy though; it was a to a Priest whose deck was even greedier than mine. He did nothing on turns 1-3 as I played two Wild Growths, then came back with 3x Temple Enforcer and 2x Mind Control.

That's why it's a bad idea to try to beat a priest by bringing out tons of huge minions. They will almost certainly win the late game. I'd muligan for lower minions because their board clears are 5 mana or more (Aucheni+Circle doesn't really count in arena) and try to get enough tempo in smaller and midrange minions that they won't be able to catch up. Also use the Druid of the Claw because 4/6 is hard for Priest to deal with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on May 09, 2015, 06:12:30 pm
2x Holy Wrath with Molten Giant, Force Tank Max, Guardian of Kings in my high end. Going for the dream, my curve is pretty high and I have 1x Consecrate as my only removal...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on May 09, 2015, 06:16:15 pm
Just got my first 12 win run with this deck:

Avenge
Noble Sacrifice
Abusive Sergeant
Murloc Raider
Annoy-o-tron x2
Argent Protector x2
Giblin Stalker
Micro Machine
Aldor Peacekeeper
Harvest Golem
Ironfur Grizzly
Raging Worgen
Scarlet Purifier
Truesilver Champion x2
Blessing of Kings
Hammer of Wrath x2
Dark Iron Dwarf
Defender of Argus
Dread Corsair
Solemn Vigil
Frostwolf Warlord
Stranglethorn Tiger
Venture Co. Mercenary
Frost Elemental
Volcanic Drake
Lay on Hands

It ended up being much stronger than I had anticipated while drafting, but in retrospect it looks like a very solid deck so I'm not sure why I thought it wasn't that good. I had the last opponent misplay horribly a couple of times, though, not sure if I would have won that game otherwise.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on May 10, 2015, 08:08:06 am
Yep, 4-3. Two of the losses I expected, just got board wiped and then out-tempoed, and had no way to catch back up. The other loss was crazy though; it was a to a Priest whose deck was even greedier than mine. He did nothing on turns 1-3 as I played two Wild Growths, then came back with 3x Temple Enforcer and 2x Mind Control.

That's why it's a bad idea to try to beat a priest by bringing out tons of huge minions. They will almost certainly win the late game. I'd muligan for lower minions because their board clears are 5 mana or more (Aucheni+Circle doesn't really count in arena) and try to get enough tempo in smaller and midrange minions that they won't be able to catch up. Also use the Druid of the Claw because 4/6 is hard for Priest to deal with.
Against Priest, it's also important to try to get early game tempo advantage or else they might just steamroll you with Velen's Chosen and other buff cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Twistedarcher on May 10, 2015, 11:28:02 pm
Fireguard destroyer seems to have made Shaman quite a bit stronger. Having multiple of them is really tough to deal with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on May 11, 2015, 10:16:54 am
Fireguard destroyer seems to have made Shaman quite a bit stronger. Having multiple of them is really tough to deal with.

I ha a draft with 4 of them and it went 2 wins
. They're nice and big but they still lost lots of annoying small minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on May 12, 2015, 02:47:22 am
http://imgur.com/x5qYJgy

I'm very confused at this deck's performance. I guess the lesson here is that Multi-Shot is amazing and hunter traps are amazing. I get in this sweet spot where enemies are too scared to race a Hunter, so I can count on certain trades to happen, and then Multi-Shots come in and give me amazing value.

Off-screen are 1x Sen'jin, 1x Spellbreaker, 1x Cobra Shot, 1x Azure Drake, 1x Silver Hand Knight, 1x Sea Giant. Some notable picks were Explosive > Yeti, Snapjaw > Harvest Golem. I picked Houndmaster very early, but didn't see any Beasts until my last 10 picks or so. I think the only Beast I saw before then was a Silverback Patriarch and I did Loot Hoarder > Silverback.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 12, 2015, 12:24:17 pm
Nice deck! It's sometimes a little tricky to actually draft a strong aggro deck in Arena, but it looks like you did it. I guess you took the Snapjaw over the Harvest Golem for the Houndmaster synergy? I probably would have taken the Harvest Golem, but if it looked like you might end up with no beasts at all at that point I might have taken the Snapjaw.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 12, 2015, 01:56:17 pm
I'm not really a fan of Snapjaw > Harvest Golem there. Maybe if you needed it for curve purposes, but you have zero consistent 3-drops, and only two cards with Beast synergy. Explosive Trap > Yeti also seems crazy, though I can see doing that if you knew by then that you'd be going for aggro and already had enough 4-drops, and didn't have any other secrets for Mad Scientist yet.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on May 12, 2015, 03:22:33 pm
The Snapjaw felt very sketchy, but in my defense, when you pick a Houndmaster at around pick 4, then see no remotely decent beasts until the last 10 picks, you get pretty worried.

I would actually pick Explosive > Yeti most of the time. Explosive Trap is really, really good, even when you know it's coming it still clears something.

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on May 13, 2015, 10:07:43 am
I was pretty happy to get 4 wins out of this deck:
http://arenamastery.com/DB3N

The last game I played was ridiculous.  Shaman opens T2 Mechwarper, T3 Powermace, T4 Harvest Golem + Spider tank.  And this is arena...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 13, 2015, 12:26:29 pm
Ick Majordomo. Aside from that I like cards you picked. Not an amazing draft, but you did well with it if you got 4 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on May 13, 2015, 06:51:56 pm
Would loatheb or Harrison been better?

My next draft was so much more satisfying: http://arenamastery.com/nuIc

So far, 3-1, with the one loss being against a ragnaros I couldn't get rid of (he had also drafted a cairne that didn't come into play until he had already won)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 13, 2015, 08:21:48 pm
I don't know if he somehow won you a game in some weird situation, but I'd take Loatheb there, but not judge you for taking Harrison if you thought you were going to go up against more Paladins than Mages. Loatheb isn't as strong in Arena as in Constructed as you see less spells in Arena, but he's still a 5/5 for 5 that prevents board clear/removal spells the turn after he's played, which can win you the game when an opponent needs to remove something but can't use their spell to do it. Harrison is really strong against weapon classes, but mediocre against classes without weapons.

Majordomo costs !9!, and if he dies he can take you from winning the game with clear board control to immediately losing to some burn cards. Yeah he has a big body, but it costs too much. I'd rather strengthen my mid game with a solid 5 drop. He's not the worst card ever, but he's pretty low on the list of Legendaries I'd pick. I guess you were 17 cards in and hadn't seen a big body until he showed up so I can see the temptation, but I'd probably just take the good 5 drop and hope for a better big drop to come later in the draft.

(Also relevant: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12330.msg490950#msg490950)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on May 14, 2015, 09:26:36 am
He was a good large body one time, but yeah, he wasn't actually all that great...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 14, 2015, 08:17:10 pm
Interaction I just saw for the first time: If you play Corruption (http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Corruption) on an opponent's minion, and then on their turn your opponent plays Avenge, then at the beginning of your turn, the Avenge will trigger after Corruption. Not unexpected or confusing, or anything, just kinda surprising. (Would also work with Duplicate and Redemption, I suppose.)

In the next game, my opponent topdecked Tree of Life with 3 health and no cards in hand or on board. I was thinking of cards he could draw to survive, and I thought of Deathwing, but not that :P First time I've ever seen it played in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on May 15, 2015, 12:56:28 am
My most recent arena deck looks really fun. I have no idea how well it's going to do though.

Execute
Whirlwind
Dragon Egg

Fiery War Axe
Rampage
Bloodsail Raider
3x Cruel Taskmaster
Faerie Dragon
Wild Pyromancer

Frothing Berserker
2x Jungle Panther
2x Mind Control Tech

2x Axe Flinger
Dark Iron Dwarf
Kezan Mystic
Korkron Elite
Mechanical Yeti
Sen;jin Shieldmasta

Gurubashi Berzerker
Nightblade
Salty Dog
Siege Engine
Spiteful Smith

2x Boulderfist Ogre

Turns out the answer is 5-3. I had a fun game where Axe Flinger got 3 procs and gave me lethal through Nightblade...but overall the deck died once I hit opponents with removal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on May 16, 2015, 02:45:25 pm
Managed to draft a pretty amazing Rogue deck (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/fbg5s1) today, and managed to take it to 11-1. 

I didn't see a single Flamestrike.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 18, 2015, 11:31:34 pm
11-1 is a mysterious and unforgiving place

(http://i.imgur.com/58SchbM.jpg)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 28, 2015, 09:28:48 pm
I promise this is Arena: http://imgur.com/n22sf8y
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on May 29, 2015, 12:36:28 am
I promise this is Arena: http://imgur.com/n22sf8y

Is it that wierd to get Force + Roar in Arena?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 29, 2015, 04:13:22 am
I promise this is Arena: http://imgur.com/n22sf8y

Is it that wierd to get Force + Roar in Arena?
You know, you wouldn't think so, but I've never had it before. I think I've only had Force of Nature once or twice before, in fact. And it's also the fact that all of the visible cards could plausibly appear in a constructed Tempo Mage vs Midrange Druid deck. The Drakonid wouldn't be standard, but I've seen crazier.

Anyway, that deck went 3-3, as (surprise) it had too many conditional cards and an inconsistent midgame. I just drafted a Rogue deck which looks like it might have the same weaknesses, but also has the potential to go crazy, in more than one way:

Backstab x3
Shadowstep x2

Eviscerate
Amani Berserker
Bloodfen Raptor
Mana Addict
Mechwarper x2

Harvest Golem
Scarlet Crusader
SI:7 Agent

Chillwind Yeti
Dark Iron Dwarf
Defender of Argus
Gnomish Inventor
Piloted Shredder
Twilight Drake
Violet Teacher

Assassin's Blade
Assassinate
Antique Healbot
Azure Drake
Blackwing Corruptor x2
Madder Bomber

Sprint

Nozdormu


The dream is to play Nozdormu, force my opponent into panic dropping junk creatures, Shadowstepping the Nozdormu, then double Blackwing Corruptor to clear his board. It's gonna happen.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on May 29, 2015, 10:54:34 am
That rogue deck looks more like it has weak 2 drops and no big minions besides Noz. I think that will be the real downfall. You can't go aggro but you'll also lost control because you have no minions to contest other large minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 29, 2015, 12:35:52 pm
It's got the possibility to be really strong with lucky starts (any time he can play on curve he'll feel like his deck is super strong as he's likely to draw into the 4s and 5s he needs), but the lack of 2s and 3s will probably manifest itself in some bad luck that'll cause you to lose the early game and have really tough come backs. 3 Backstabs can at least mitigate this a bit, especially if you can combo them with an SI:7 Agent in the early game.

I wouldn't expect amazing things out of this deck, but I'd at least expect 3 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 29, 2015, 12:42:20 pm
Arena Zoo! I just drafted this and I'm pretty pleased with it. Especially all the Demon synergies. Demonwrath is so strong in Arena when you have a deck full of demons.

1s:
Abusive
Flame Imp
Blood Imp
Soulfire

2s:
River Croc
Acidic Swamp Ooze
Faerie Dragon
Murloc Tidehunter
Haunted Creeper
Mechwarper
Dark Bomb x 2

3s:
Imp Gang Boss x 2
Worgen
Wolfrider
Emperor Cobra
Demonwrath

4s:
Teacher
Shredder
Hungry Dragon
Chillwind Yeti
Spell Breaker
Voidcaller

5s (and beyond):
Doomguard
Fen Creeper
Frostwolf Warlord
Madder Bomber
Floating Watcher
Dread Infernal

(Here's the draft if anyone wants to comment on it: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/1o2641)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 29, 2015, 09:46:33 pm
It's got the possibility to be really strong with lucky starts (any time he can play on curve he'll feel like his deck is super strong as he's likely to draw into the 4s and 5s he needs), but the lack of 2s and 3s will probably manifest itself in some bad luck that'll cause you to lose the early game and have really tough come backs. 3 Backstabs can at least mitigate this a bit, especially if you can combo them with an SI:7 Agent in the early game.

I wouldn't expect amazing things out of this deck, but I'd at least expect 3 wins.
6-0
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on May 29, 2015, 10:20:00 pm
It's got the possibility to be really strong with lucky starts (any time he can play on curve he'll feel like his deck is super strong as he's likely to draw into the 4s and 5s he needs), but the lack of 2s and 3s will probably manifest itself in some bad luck that'll cause you to lose the early game and have really tough come backs. 3 Backstabs can at least mitigate this a bit, especially if you can combo them with an SI:7 Agent in the early game.

I wouldn't expect amazing things out of this deck, but I'd at least expect 3 wins.
6-0

Nice! I like being proven wrong too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 29, 2015, 11:03:07 pm
It's got the possibility to be really strong with lucky starts (any time he can play on curve he'll feel like his deck is super strong as he's likely to draw into the 4s and 5s he needs), but the lack of 2s and 3s will probably manifest itself in some bad luck that'll cause you to lose the early game and have really tough come backs. 3 Backstabs can at least mitigate this a bit, especially if you can combo them with an SI:7 Agent in the early game.

I wouldn't expect amazing things out of this deck, but I'd at least expect 3 wins.
6-0

Nice! I like being proven wrong too.
6-3
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on May 30, 2015, 12:50:22 am
12-1 with a Paladin deck with no Consecrate :O

Okay, to be fair I had 1 Truesilver, Piloted Shredder, Piloted Sky Golem, 2 or 3 Azure Drakes with 1 Blackwing Corruptor, 1 Avenging Wrath, and other good stuff. My early game was just okay, my midgame had insane value, my curve topped out at Boulderfist Ogre, and I usually used Avenging Wrath to push for lethal before late game could happen.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on May 30, 2015, 12:11:46 pm
After your 11-1 post, seeing force roar and constructed mage vs. druid mage -1 druid card was not as impressive.

The former was beautiful and I cried a little.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on May 31, 2015, 01:55:54 am
constructed mage vs. druid mage -1 druid card

???

Edit: Did not know three question marks made that emote
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on June 01, 2015, 08:35:53 am
i meant constructed mage vs. constructed druid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 02, 2015, 02:12:02 pm
Why Deathlord is not a good 3-drop: http://imgur.com/1JrCZli
Things you can only do after testing for Flamestrike: http://imgur.com/NLTRo3Z
Arena Demonlock dream (not pictured: 2x Voidcaller, 2x Floating Watcher): http://imgur.com/E6wJ2rz
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on June 02, 2015, 02:30:03 pm
Why Deathlord is not a good 3-drop: http://imgur.com/1JrCZli

But your board is so good, I don't see the problem here. You trade the damaged/buffed ooze for the Senjin and then continue winning the game. Presumably he had to use a significant amount of resources to get out a card you can easily deal with.

After looking at the image again I see that you killed the Deathlord and got a free Belcher out of it. I actually think Deathlord is an okay (but unreliable) card. It has amazing stats and usually takes enough resources to kill that it ends up being on par with other 3 drops. Sometimes it's terrible, the first time I used it I gave my opponent a free Ragnaros  :'(, but it can be as good for you as for him. Especially if they just end up getting a card you play for the battlecry. It feels great to get a Bomb Lobber, Defender of Argus, Novice Engineer or an Abusive Sargent (sp?).

Things you can only do after testing for Flamestrike: http://imgur.com/NLTRo3Z
Arena Demonlock dream (not pictured: 2x Voidcaller, 2x Floating Watcher): http://imgur.com/E6wJ2rz
As to these, nice!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 02, 2015, 08:39:21 pm
Why Deathlord is not a good 3-drop: http://imgur.com/1JrCZli

But your board is so good, I don't see the problem here. You trade the damaged/buffed ooze for the Senjin and then continue winning the game. Presumably he had to use a significant amount of resources to get out a card you can easily deal with.

After looking at the image again I see that you killed the Deathlord and got a free Belcher out of it. I actually think Deathlord is an okay (but unreliable) card. It has amazing stats and usually takes enough resources to kill that it ends up being on par with other 3 drops. Sometimes it's terrible, the first time I used it I gave my opponent a free Ragnaros  :'(, but it can be as good for you as for him. Especially if they just end up getting a card you play for the battlecry. It feels great to get a Bomb Lobber, Defender of Argus, Novice Engineer or an Abusive Sargent (sp?).

Deathlord can definitely do amazing things, but I still think the fact that it's so inconsistent makes it hard to call definitively "good". Times when it's both safe and useful to drop Deathlord are frustratingly rare, and even in those cases - like here, where my opponent dropped it against my 3/2 Ooze and totems - you can get screwed by combat tricks.

Compare it to Hungry Dragon, for instance. Both are worth about ~5.5 mana in stats not counting their downsides, and Deathlord costs 1 mana less, but the minion your opponent gets costs a lot more and is higher-quality on average. With Hungry Dragon, you're unlikely to outright lose the game because of the downside, and you're always in control of when the downside occurs. And Hungry Dragon isn't even considered that great in Arena.



"Sergeant" doesn't usually come up in discussions of the hardest-to-spell English words, but I really think it's up there with the "occurrence"s and "privilege"s of the world.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on June 02, 2015, 10:45:12 pm
I've had Hungry Dragon give my opponent Thalnos multiple times.  Annoying.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on June 02, 2015, 11:18:52 pm
I've had Hungry Dragon give my opponent Thalnos multiple times.  Annoying.

That's very odd, considering Thalnos costs 2. Sure you don't mean their Piloted Shredder?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on June 03, 2015, 12:12:50 am
I've had Hungry Dragon give my opponent Thalnos multiple times.  Annoying.

That's very odd, considering Thalnos costs 2. Sure you don't mean their Piloted Shredder?

Doh.  Yes, you are correct.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on June 03, 2015, 01:53:39 pm
Why Deathlord is not a good 3-drop: http://imgur.com/1JrCZli

But your board is so good, I don't see the problem here. You trade the damaged/buffed ooze for the Senjin and then continue winning the game. Presumably he had to use a significant amount of resources to get out a card you can easily deal with.

After looking at the image again I see that you killed the Deathlord and got a free Belcher out of it. I actually think Deathlord is an okay (but unreliable) card. It has amazing stats and usually takes enough resources to kill that it ends up being on par with other 3 drops. Sometimes it's terrible, the first time I used it I gave my opponent a free Ragnaros  :'(, but it can be as good for you as for him. Especially if they just end up getting a card you play for the battlecry. It feels great to get a Bomb Lobber, Defender of Argus, Novice Engineer or an Abusive Sargent (sp?).

Deathlord can definitely do amazing things, but I still think the fact that it's so inconsistent makes it hard to call definitively "good". Times when it's both safe and useful to drop Deathlord are frustratingly rare, and even in those cases - like here, where my opponent dropped it against my 3/2 Ooze and totems - you can get screwed by combat tricks.

Compare it to Hungry Dragon, for instance. Both are worth about ~5.5 mana in stats not counting their downsides, and Deathlord costs 1 mana less, but the minion your opponent gets costs a lot more and is higher-quality on average. With Hungry Dragon, you're unlikely to outright lose the game because of the downside, and you're always in control of when the downside occurs. And Hungry Dragon isn't even considered that great in Arena.

Yeah I wouldn't consider it anywhere near a top ranked 3 drop, but I don't really hesitate to pick it if it seems like the card I need in Arena. Slightly below average, but not something to be afraid of. Probably on par with cards that are still good enough to play when they don't meet their condition: a Blackwing Technician without Dragons, an Illuminator without Secrets or a Tinkertown without Mechs. I'd rather have a Harvest Golem, Animal Companion or any of the above with their conditions likely to be met, but I wouldn't avoid drafting the Deathlord at all costs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 03, 2015, 02:15:02 pm
Maybe one way to think about Deathlord is as a tempo loan. You gain a huge amount of tempo when you play Deathlord, with the knowledge that when it dies, you'll have to pay it back with interest, and your goal should be to leverage your temporary lead into board control and the win. If you don't have the hand, deck, or board position to take advantage of the tempo gain, then it's not a good play.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: shraeye on June 03, 2015, 02:48:01 pm
yeah, that's kind of how I see it.  Now if I could only analyze my hand/deck/board position better, then I'd actually know when to play it or not.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on June 03, 2015, 03:12:38 pm
I always think of as being a card that strengthens your early game, at the cost of your mid game. If you've got lots of good control cards you can use it to stall until the late game. If you're playing a aggro-ish deck it's a lot weaker as you want to crush the mid game usually. It's also a lot stronger when combined with a hard removal spell like a Polymorph, Hex or Assassinate so you can deal with a potential big drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 04, 2015, 09:27:32 pm
Drafted a deck with the legendary Onyxia / Cenarius combo. We'll see whether I can stay alive long enough to pull it off... http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/90s5j2

Edit: Game 2: http://imgur.com/amDJ6Yq
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on June 05, 2015, 12:00:07 am
Drafted a deck with the legendary Onyxia / Cenarius combo. We'll see whether I can stay alive long enough to pull it off... http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/90s5j2

Edit: Game 2: http://imgur.com/amDJ6Yq

Did he just resign at that point?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on June 05, 2015, 12:44:39 pm
Edit: Game 2: http://imgur.com/amDJ6Yq

And Savage Roar! You monster.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on June 20, 2015, 04:57:31 am
After I drafted my current deck, I said to a friend "I think this Warrior deck has too many weapons."

That was dumb.

http://imgur.com/yMUpmpM

My only loss so far was in the first game, in which my opponent played T4 Voidcaller into T6 Power Overwhelming + Void Terror > Floating Watcher, and then finished the game by playing Mal'ganis to buff his demons for lethal.

I won this game: http://imgur.com/b1AwdEo

Edit: Finished 12-2, my first 12 win Warrior! Here's how I won my last game: http://imgur.com/a7qfzQF
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on June 23, 2015, 11:53:35 pm
I haven't played arena in a while, but here's my draft:
http://arenamastery.com/TQAX

I'm pretty happy with it. I only wish I had some more big guys.  My big drops don't apply a ton of pressure.  Let's hope my early game helps that out...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on June 24, 2015, 01:12:03 am
I haven't played arena in a while, but here's my draft:
http://arenamastery.com/TQAX

I'm pretty happy with it. I only wish I had some more big guys.  My big drops don't apply a ton of pressure.  Let's hope my early game helps that out...

Your early game is so strong you might be able to just play like an aggro deck and it won't matter that you don't have great big drops.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on June 24, 2015, 07:22:42 pm
Pfft just got hit by the Blingtron + Acidic Swamp Ooze combo in arena. My opponent got Gladiator's Longbow. I lost in the end.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 03, 2015, 03:46:36 pm
http://imgur.com/a/5y0iV

Holy shit, what just happened to me? On consecutive turns:

Nefarian
Trade Shredder > Thalnos, Consecration, Dark Wispers for 13/13 Nefarian with Taunt
Muster for Battle, Hero Power, Soul of the Forest
Tirion Fordring
Booty Bay Bodyguard, Illuminator, Secret, Stealth spare part on Illuminator

I was 2-2!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on July 04, 2015, 06:57:24 am
I have an uncomfortably aggressive Mage deck. 20 of my cards cost 3 or less, my most expensive minions are four 5-drops and my single Flamestrike is the only card above 5 mana. I didn't really intend to build a deck like this, but it just didn't give me any expensive cards. It's doing surprisingly well though, 3-0 so far.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 04, 2015, 10:04:14 am
I have an uncomfortably aggressive Mage deck. 20 of my cards cost 3 or less, my most expensive minions are four 5-drops and my single Flamestrike is the only card above 5 mana. I didn't really intend to build a deck like this, but it just didn't give me any expensive cards. It's doing surprisingly well though, 3-0 so far.

Decks that can tempo out the game super fast and then hit face will almost always do really well. You don't need tons of big minions, so not having any is still ok to win a bunch of games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on July 05, 2015, 06:19:01 am
Ended up going 4-3.  :-\
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 12, 2015, 05:08:11 pm
Just a reminder to pay attention! My opponent played a Voodoo Doctor as his 4th minion despite seeing me Duplicate a Mind Control Tech earlier in the game, so I stole his 10/10 Lightspawn and came back from being down 4 health to 30. There was no reason for him to lose that game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on July 14, 2015, 06:30:51 pm
So I just drafted this:

http://arenamastery.com/58RL

Pick 1: I kinda freaked out a bit when this was my first pick.
Pick 28 was probably the first truly difficult pick.  I think spectral knight is just a tad better than silver hand because flamestrike is a thing.
Pick 29 was also kinda tough, but I figure I can freeze stuff with the snowchuggers then lance them.

Kinda wish it didn't want to give me Nozdormu so bad, but hey, I'll take 2 legendaries early on in the draft.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on July 14, 2015, 10:38:04 pm
And I just losta  game against rogue where she was at 1 health, I was at 15, I had a full board: deckhand (+2) -> oil(+6) -> cold blood(+4) -> youthful brewmaster -> deckhand(+2) + the base 1 dmg from the knife...

:(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on July 15, 2015, 12:02:51 am
Wow, that looks like a really good draft. I just want to point out that you could have had TWO NOZDORMUS! It would have been so annoying! (boom was definitely the better choice though.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on July 15, 2015, 06:37:31 am
I could have! It would have been so great! I've drawn Dr
 Boom in all 4 games I've played so far. It just feels so good
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on July 18, 2015, 04:11:41 am
Drafted this Arena Warrior:

Execute x2
Shield Slam
Whirlwind
Clockwork Gnome
Southsea Deckhand
Battle Rage x2
Heroic Strike
Slam
Cruel Taskmaster
Mechwarper
Shieldblock x2
Shattered Sun Cleric
Warsong Commander x3
Death's Bite
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Kezan Mystic
Grim Patron
Spectral Knight
Boulderfist Ogre
Drakonid Crusher


Any thoughts?  This almost feels like a Constructed Deck...just a few things to swap out and it could work in ranked play.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 18, 2015, 09:47:55 am
I think you shouldn't have picked Warrior in arena :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on July 18, 2015, 02:50:42 pm
I think you shouldn't have picked Warrior in arena :P

I never play arena, but thought I'd give it another go.  I had warrior/rogue/shaman to choose from, and I'm most comfortable with warrior.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 20, 2015, 05:06:12 pm
Drafted this Arena Warrior:

Execute x2
Shield Slam
Whirlwind
Clockwork Gnome
Southsea Deckhand
Battle Rage x2
Heroic Strike
Slam
Cruel Taskmaster
Mechwarper
Shieldblock x2
Shattered Sun Cleric
Warsong Commander x3
Death's Bite
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Kezan Mystic
Grim Patron
Spectral Knight
Boulderfist Ogre
Drakonid Crusher


Any thoughts?  This almost feels like a Constructed Deck...just a few things to swap out and it could work in ranked play.

I think the total lack of early game presence is a big issue. Constructed Control/Patron Warrior has Fiery War Axe and Armorsmith to survive the early game, yours seems like it'd just get run over against the average Arena tempo deck. You also don't have the burst of Frothing Berserker or Grommash. I would guess maybe 3 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on July 20, 2015, 05:23:59 pm
I saw this interesting video from Kripp recently:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tgMDnUhMxqw (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tgMDnUhMxqw)
 
In it, he explains how good 1-drops have become quite valuable in arena. He explains how a 1-2-3-4 (maybe a 5) curve will usually beat out a 2-3-4-5 curve in terms of tempo. With the arena format leaning more towards tempo, a tempo lead is significant.

I tried this out in my last few arena runs and I feel like he's on to something there. I found it especially useful as a Rogue to have cards like Argent Squire and Clockwork Gnome lying around in my deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on July 20, 2015, 08:25:38 pm
I like drafting a couple 1 drops in Arena usually, but I don't know if the takeaway from watching that advice is that we should draft lots of 1 drops or if we should just keep on drafting good quality 1 drops, which I think we should have been doing anyways. I kinda think it's more the latter.

By good quality I mean 1 drops like Chow, Argent Squire, Abusive, Clockwork Gnome and all the strong class 1 drops. Drawing into a bad 1 drop in mid to late game will lose you games too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on July 20, 2015, 09:11:19 pm
I like drafting a couple 1 drops in Arena usually, but I don't know if the takeaway from watching that advice is that we should draft lots of 1 drops or if we should just keep on drafting good quality 1 drops, which I think we should have been doing anyways. I kinda think it's more the latter.

By good quality I mean 1 drops like Chow, Argent Squire, Abusive, Clockwork Gnome and all the strong class 1 drops. Drawing into a bad 1 drop in mid to late game will lose you games too.
Yeah I'm still not looking to draft Secretkeeper or anything. And I get the impression that you'd be better off with a standard 2-drop curve like half the time.

As far as 1 drops go, I'd say Light's Justice is not one to overlook. That just reminds me of how good Muster for Battle is though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on July 21, 2015, 03:03:36 am
Drafted this Arena Warrior:

Execute x2
Shield Slam
Whirlwind
Clockwork Gnome
Southsea Deckhand
Battle Rage x2
Heroic Strike
Slam
Cruel Taskmaster
Mechwarper
Shieldblock x2
Shattered Sun Cleric
Warsong Commander x3
Death's Bite
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Kezan Mystic
Grim Patron
Spectral Knight
Boulderfist Ogre
Drakonid Crusher


Any thoughts?  This almost feels like a Constructed Deck...just a few things to swap out and it could work in ranked play.

I think the total lack of early game presence is a big issue. Constructed Control/Patron Warrior has Fiery War Axe and Armorsmith to survive the early game, yours seems like it'd just get run over against the average Arena tempo deck. You also don't have the burst of Frothing Berserker or Grommash. I would guess maybe 3 wins.

Exactly 3, although one loss was a DC and it was definitely up in the air.

I found if I could survive until I got the Patron combo, I won. That wasn't easy, though. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on July 23, 2015, 02:21:15 am
My opponent played Auctioneer, Wild Growth, Excess Mana, Wild Growth, Excess Mana for 6 cards total.

Luckily I still won because I had board, but I got worried.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 23, 2015, 02:26:16 pm
Thoughts on the new cards in Arena? Here's a list for reference: http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-unreleased=1&filter-set=103&filter-premium=1&display=3

Obviously insane: Totem Golem

Probably insane, just compare it to Razorfen Hunter: Tuskarr Totemic

Obviously bad, but maybe not as bad as it looks: Skycap'n Kragg, Lock and Load

Okay-to-decent stats and potentially great effects, so should be a solid pick: Garrison Commander, Coldarra Drake, Maiden of the Lake, Fallen Hero, Silver Hand Regent, Lowly Squire

Hard to tell because I dunno how often you can really use your hero power, but not terrible even with just one trigger: All the big Inspires, Draenei Totemcarver, Frost Giant

???: Ball of Spiders, Effigy, Poisoned Blade

Justicar Trueheart: Justicar Trueheart
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on July 23, 2015, 03:14:13 pm
I agree with most of your analysis. I would add that I think Ball of Spiders is going to be pretty strong in Arena. Think about it this way:
For 6 mana you get 3 1/1s and draw three cards.

To compare Sprint which is pretty Arena playable costs 7 mana, gives you no board presence and draws you 4 cards. Muster gives you no cards, but gives you 3 1/1s and a cheap weapon and costs you 3 mana. Muster is probably better than Ball of Spiders, but I think Ball of Spiders is better than Sprint.

The other ??? cards are probably slightly below average. They're both slow, don't give you much the turn they're played, but can turn things around. Having another secret to test for kinda strengthens all Mage secrets in general though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on July 23, 2015, 03:44:12 pm
Well the new Secret can be played aroudn pretty much the same way a s Duplicate
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on July 23, 2015, 06:30:37 pm
Well the new Secret can be played aroudn pretty much the same way a s Duplicate
I'd say it's a bit harder to play around just because sometimes you can make Duplicate procure on a big minion so long as playing the minion again is a tempo loss your opponent can't afford. With the new secret, their new minion can already attack next turn.

But yeah I see it as being the tempo version of Duplicate. Watch out for Giant + Effigy.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 24, 2015, 03:05:49 pm
New cards:

(http://media.blizzard.com/hearthstone/images/the-grand-tournament/cards/north-sea-kraken/en-us-small.png)(http://i.imgur.com/vRIR2C8.png)(http://i.imgur.com/FxRgTLZ.png)(http://i.imgur.com/diGRIe5.png)

First thoughts...

North Sea Kraken: The first common above 7 mana! Definitely interesting in the draft phase, and should be solid as a lategame drop; seems like it would often outright win the game in topdeck situations.

Sacred Warrior: Yet another really good Priest common. It's kinda like Frothing Berserker, but easier to keep alive. Maybe Circle of Healing will actually become a good pick if you have a couple of these.

King's Defender: Would probably be amazing in any other class; Eaglehorn Bow as a rare 3 mana Fiery War Axe is already decent for Hunter. Having a lot of durability is actually kind of awkward in Warrior though, as generally you want to pick as many weapons as possible, and playing this on turn 3 with an Annoy-o-tron or whatever means your Death's Bites and Arcanite Reapers will be hard to play for a few turns.

Wildfred Fizzlebang: Uh... probably not very good, right? Usually if you're Life Tapping on turn 8+ in Arena, mana isn't much of a concern.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on July 24, 2015, 03:10:36 pm
North Sea Kraken: The first common above 7 mana!

Force Tank MAX?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on July 24, 2015, 05:27:39 pm
Oh yeah, forgot about that one.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on July 24, 2015, 06:37:27 pm
@King's defender
The extra durability is only a problem if you have a compulsion against replacing your weapons before the durability runs out. It's never worse than a 3 mana Fiery War Axe.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 27, 2015, 04:26:10 pm
http://i.imgur.com/UCwWraZ.jpg  (Not pictured: A fire elemental)

I'm having tons of fun beating people on turn 4 with this deck! 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on July 27, 2015, 04:38:56 pm
http://i.imgur.com/UCwWraZ.jpg  (Not pictured: A fire elemental)

I'm having tons of fun beating people on turn 4 with this deck!
Now that's what I'd call an aggro arena deck! Hopefully it can make that final push to 12 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on July 27, 2015, 04:52:51 pm
http://i.imgur.com/UCwWraZ.jpg  (Not pictured: A fire elemental)

I'm having tons of fun beating people on turn 4 with this deck!
Now that's what I'd call an aggro arena deck! Hopefully it can make that final push to 12 wins.

Did you get turn 2 Zappo, turn 3 coin 4xRockbiter?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 27, 2015, 04:57:28 pm
I've done turn 1 zap, turn 2 flametongue, turn 3 rockbiters for lethal.

I ended up 11-3... but two of the games I lost I felt like I got very unlucky.  Against a paladin he got to turn 4 BGH my 7/6 Fireguard destroyer, and he played Holy Light, Tirion, and Lay on Hands and still ended the game on like 5 health.

Against a hunter at 11-2 his Piloted Shredder dropped annoy-o-tron.  :(  Fel Reaver doesn't match up well against annoy-o-tron.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on July 27, 2015, 04:58:09 pm
But a lot of my wins were drawing well, so I guess I can't complain.  I had a zap-o-matic in my opening hand way more than I should have considering I only had 2 of them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on July 30, 2015, 10:11:24 pm
I just faced a warrior with Rag and Grommash...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 03, 2015, 12:51:09 am
12-1 with Paladin!

3x Blessing of Kings, 2x Azure Drake, and other super value cards. It actually had everything - Equality + Consecrate for clear, Blessing of Kings for reach, Azure Drake + Solemn Vigil for card draw. Stranglethorn tiger + BoK won me a few games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 07, 2015, 03:22:37 pm
This just happened: http://imgur.com/sLatDC7
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 08, 2015, 08:26:17 pm
Sniper Bomber (http://imgur.com/3ivo4aU)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 09, 2015, 12:44:16 am
Did you win?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 09, 2015, 05:29:20 am
Yes!  I cannot believe that they were pleased.

(You can tell this from the sidebar log, but there were four minions in total on the board when I played the bomber.  So the chance to kill the drake was 2/27 ~= 7.5%.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on August 10, 2015, 10:40:35 am
Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 10, 2015, 11:02:28 am
Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.

When GvG came out I suddenly couldnt do well till about a month after its release. So I assume you're also in that stage mixed with being rusty at arena :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 10, 2015, 11:05:30 am
Yeah GvG totally changed how Arena plays, sometimes in ways that are hard to even understand or track.  Every arena run some pick in the thirty comes up and I'm like, "I'm certain that a year ago I would slam the card on the left, but I feel like I have to pick the card on the right in modern times, and I'm not even sure why".  And I pick it and do well..
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 10, 2015, 11:32:38 am
Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.

When GvG came out I suddenly couldnt do well till about a month after its release. So I assume you're also in that stage mixed with being rusty at arena :P
On my first GvG Arena run I went 0/3, as a Mage even. I was streaming my run too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 10, 2015, 11:42:16 pm
This is the first time I have earned over 150 gold since GvG... Arena got much harder

http://arenamastery.com/TfEp
(too lazy to input cards as I drafted them...)

I was surprised how many times I could activate blackwing corrupter.  It was insane
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 11, 2015, 11:43:47 am
Playing something good on curve for turn 1-3 can win you a lot of games. Early game is where it's at. You can have 1 big minion, that's often all you need to seal a game. Only a few classes where you need more, like Druid that has a lot nice taunts like Druid of the Claw to stop tempo from the early game and then have enough trees where you can't catch up. But I've valued removal like Polymorph and Hex much worse since I'd rather get a minion out than have those cards most of the time.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 11, 2015, 03:32:48 pm
Polymorph and hex were major losers of GVG shifts
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 11, 2015, 03:51:11 pm
Polymorph and hex were major losers of GVG shifts

But early game damage spells are super strong, like flamecannon and Frost Bolt, which is why Mage is still the best. Rogue is second best in my opinion, and it's only second because if it does end up in the late game, Mage has better control cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 11, 2015, 07:05:17 pm
Relevant to people's interests?

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3glw39/arenawarriorsmatter/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 11, 2015, 09:39:24 pm
Relevant to people's interests?

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3glw39/arenawarriorsmatter/

The TL;DR is that a thoughtful caster and Arena expert talked about why Warrior sucks in Arena and why that's bad for Arena in general.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 11, 2015, 10:36:00 pm
He's wrong.  Old Charge was zero mana, not one mana.

He is correct that arena balance is just totally neglected and abandoned.  It seems like Blizz is just crapping on arena so that people play constructed, because arena is not fun anymore.  Which is terrible.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 11, 2015, 10:46:09 pm
He's wrong.  Old Charge was zero mana, not one mana.
This was even brought up in the *shudder* YouTube comments for the video that he acknowledged.

Yeah Arena is my preferred mode of play. I mean, draft is taken seriously in M:tG. The way Hearthstone simplifies the draft to only 1 of 3 x 30 and takes into account rarity makes it so they can't just release an expansion that's solid and balanced on its own and expect the same to hold true for Arena.

He made the point that Arena is not only competitive, but rather cutthroat to the inexperienced. That's a hint that there is skill involved in Arena and it should be acknowledged as a meaningful meta on its own.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 12, 2015, 12:20:38 am
Also, Korkron Elite is a good common warrior 4 drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 12, 2015, 11:31:55 pm
Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2 (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2)

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Twistedarcher on August 12, 2015, 11:37:00 pm
Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2 (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2)

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 13, 2015, 12:04:03 am
Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2 (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2)

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 13, 2015, 10:02:59 am
That's alow amount of 2 drops for Priest. So I'd say it's luck that you survived the early game, but the amazing late game that sealed those games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 13, 2015, 10:26:53 am
Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2 (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2)

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.

Clockwork Gnome and Ravenholdt Assassin are pretty bad too.  I don't know if I've ever gotten to 12 wins with that many unwanted card, let alone 12-0.  I was surprised the other day that I managed to get 10 wins with 29 good cards and a Stone Skin Gargoyle, even.  (Someone Fireballed the Stone Skin Gargoyle to keep it from trading with a 5/s when he knew I had to hero power a 7/1 the same turn, it was kinda hilarious.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on August 13, 2015, 10:49:25 am
So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 13, 2015, 10:50:45 am
Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2 (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2)

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.

Clockwork Gnome and Ravenholdt Assassin are pretty bad too.  I don't know if I've ever gotten to 12 wins with that many unwanted card, let alone 12-0.  I was surprised the other day that I managed to get 10 wins with 29 good cards and a Stone Skin Gargoyle, even.  (Someone Fireballed the Stone Skin Gargoyle to keep it from trading with a 5/s when he knew I had to hero power a 7/1 the same turn, it was kinda hilarious.
It's not like I wasn't surprised myself. I barely had enough early drops and I didn't have too many 3-4 drops to make up for it( (though they were quality 3-4 drops for the most part).

Clockwork isn't great, but sometimes a 2/1 does enough to not get overrun early on. It was really the Worgen Infiltrator that was a great 1- drop because it stays around to be buffed by Velen's Chosen and maybe Dark Cuktist. I somehow found a use for my hero power early game often enough to make up for my tricky early game curve thanks to stuff like Velen's Chosen and Northshire Cleric. It happened a few times where my Hunter opponent would open with Webspinner which trades poorly with Northshire.

Ravenholdt isn't all that good normally, but it did good work in my deck because I had a few ways to heal it back up after it trades and is very threatening when combined with Drakonid Crusher. Consider that the Ravenholdt gets played after the point where I start to claim the board for myself stuff like Tiger and Spectral Knight followed by Cabal/Holy Nova.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 13, 2015, 10:57:19 am
So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
Some spells are really good to have in moderation, like Frostbolt, Shadow Word:Pain, and the good AoE effects. The weakness of spells is that they're reactive and depend on your opponent playing targets for those spells. Frostbolt doesn't give you an edge on Turn 2 if your opponent didn't play a minion or played a stealth minion. Ultimately you need minions to let you capitalize on spells and reach the win condition of getting your opponent's health to 0.

But really, the key is to have quality, "value" cards whether they be spells or minions. The cards you pick should also fit a reasonable mana curve. These are just basic things that help you get at least an okay Arena run. I'm still not sure what quality an arena deck should have to consistently get you 7+ wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 13, 2015, 11:27:19 am
So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
Like, as always, "depends on the board", but in the agnostic conceptual sense I think that's a good way to consider things.  There is a Magic the Gathering proverb that is always fun and often insightful: "There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers".

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 13, 2015, 11:45:44 am
So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?

I guess, but spells are oftentimes better than minions of equal cost, which is why you do want to pick them quite often too. Usually, you get a nice balance between spells and minions if you just pick the card with the most value that fits into your mana curve every time.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AdamH on August 14, 2015, 01:05:09 pm
This might be my luckiest arena draft ever. I'm playing Priest and I'm 4-1 right now. Scope this:

Light of the Naaru
Mind Vision
Power Word Shield
Power Word Shield
Dragon Egg
Northshire Cleric

Shadow Word Pain
Bloodsail Raider
Shrinkmeister
Shrinkmeister

Velen's Chosen
Velen's Chosen
Dark Cultist
Earthen Ring Farseer
Ogre Brute
Raid Leader

Mass Dispel
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Dragonkin Sorcerer
Lightspawn
Violet Teacher

Holy Nova
Holy Nova
Azure Drake
Upgraded Repair Bot (the only Mech, sadly, so it's just a 5/5)

Cabal Shadow Priest
Sylvanas Windrunner

Ragnaros

Mind Control

The only thing I haven't done with this deck yet is Shrinkmeister+Cabal on something, I've had some pretty ridiculous Dragon Eggs so far, like I had a couple of 2/9s. I even got to Mind Control a Deathwing!

I almost don't want to play this deck because then it will be over eventually :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 14, 2015, 01:34:53 pm
I feel like adding Raid Leader to a deck harms it more than a constructed legend helps it, in my experience.

But that's why you have 2 legends, so it could be a very good run.


Also, AdamH plays Hearthstone?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AdamH on August 14, 2015, 01:38:35 pm
I feel like adding Raid Leader to a deck harms it more than a constructed legend helps it, in my experience.

Raid Leader is certainly one of the weaker cards in the deck sure, but it has some hilarious synergy with the Dragon Egg.

Also, AdamH plays Hearthstone?

Yes, I'm awful at it. I've streamed it a couple of times but few people want to watch me be bad at Hearthstone. Though I'm tempted to stream the rest of this run this weekend. I post in the Hearthstone streams thread when I go live.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 14, 2015, 02:24:08 pm
I'd currently be more interested in watching someone be bad at hearthstone than good at dominion. If only I was around when the streams went live :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AdamH on August 14, 2015, 02:25:28 pm
I'd currently be more interested in watching someone be bad at hearthstone than good at dominion. If only I was around when the streams went live :P

There's likely to be a stream tomorrow morning :) Somewhere around 9AM forum time, maybe?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 14, 2015, 02:29:17 pm
I'd currently be more interested in watching someone be bad at hearthstone than good at dominion. If only I was around when the streams went live :P

There's likely to be a stream tomorrow morning :) Somewhere around 9AM forum time, maybe?

Hoho! I hope to be there! I always see the email like 5 hours after the stream ends.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 14, 2015, 07:34:34 pm
A Shaman just ended my Warlock run with Leeroy/Reincarnate.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on August 17, 2015, 10:54:23 am
I'm 6/2 on an Arena run with a Mage deck... this is the farthest I've ever gotten in Arena, and I'm starting to get nervous...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 17, 2015, 11:04:26 am
You probably should be nervous, afaik, whether you win or lose the next game at 6-2 has a bigger impact on gold rewards than the game you play on any other record.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 17, 2015, 12:54:56 pm
You probably should be nervous, afaik, whether you win or lose the next game at 6-2 has a bigger impact on gold rewards than the game you play on any other record.
Wonderful.  Just what Wero needed to hear, I'm sure. :P


Just kidding, that's actually a very interesting stat, it has often felt that way to me.  the difference between 6 and 8 seems bigger than the difference between 8 and 12.

Go Wero!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 17, 2015, 01:10:44 pm
Yeah, I think 7 wins gives you an extra box that is guaranteed to contain 150 gold compared with 6 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on August 17, 2015, 02:04:45 pm
You probably should be nervous, afaik, whether you win or lose the next game at 6-2 has a bigger impact on gold rewards than the game you play on any other record.

Made it to 7!

(http://i.imgur.com/wk9JYU7.png)

Edit: The last 4 cards were a Gruul, 2 Flamestrikes, and a Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 17, 2015, 02:09:09 pm
Gratz!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on August 17, 2015, 02:24:38 pm
I... might have a problem...:

(http://s15.postimg.org/527w69htn/20150817_111837.jpg)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 17, 2015, 02:30:51 pm
I only see good drafting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on August 17, 2015, 02:34:27 pm
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 17, 2015, 02:48:05 pm
Yeah, I think 7 wins gives you an extra box that is guaranteed to contain 150 gold compared with 6 wins.
That's right. 7 wins is the magic number where you are guaranteed at least 150 gold (what you spend on the Arena in the first place). It might technically be a 155 gold box that they give you.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on August 17, 2015, 03:30:53 pm
How many weapons are too many for Warrior in Arena? It's not a class I really play all that often, but I walked away with 1 Arcanite, 2 Death's, 1 Fiery & 1 Ogre, plus 2 Weaponsmiths. The Ogre is probably the weakest, but it was also the first weapon to go in,  so...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 17, 2015, 03:40:49 pm
I 9-0'd a run with 6 Fiery War Axes and 3 Bloodsail Raiders.  I missed the duplicate potential of the old days.

Stuff that's not Fiery War Axe doesn't seem to stack quite as well, though.  I usually run into trouble if I take 5+ weapons.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 17, 2015, 05:11:35 pm
I don't think you can have too many Fiery Win Axes, but Ogre War Mauls can be hard to do good things with. The others are probably okay to grab more of if you haven't hit 5 weapons yet.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 17, 2015, 05:58:01 pm
You basically want as many weapons as possible, but Ogre Warmaul doesn't count as a weapon.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 17, 2015, 11:52:57 pm
Actually the easiest solution is not to pick warrior in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 18, 2015, 12:21:26 am
Actually the easiest solution is not to pick warrior in arena.

There's a lot of truth to this...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 18, 2015, 05:35:19 am
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
I wouldn't say you've thrown anything away here.  That's an almost impossible situation.  It's usually safest to assume that a mage has a fireball in a 3-card hand, particularly late-game (especially if they've been holding back a particular card).  It's literally just a gamble - whatever you do, there's a possibilities you'll get punished for it.  I think I would have pyro'd the 9/9 too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 18, 2015, 07:58:21 am
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
I wouldn't say you've thrown anything away here.  That's an almost impossible situation.  It's usually safest to assume that a mage has a fireball in a 3-card hand, particularly late-game (especially if they've been holding back a particular card).  It's literally just a gamble - whatever you do, there's a possibilities you'll get punished for it.  I think I would have pyro'd the 9/9 too.

The question is which play led to a win vs which play led to you not losing as fast. Sometimes you can't play around cards because you will certainly lose of if you do. Many games I've had to play into flamestrike because otherwise I'd lose. So if you had no way to remove the 9/9 and he has cards and you don't, hitting face would be the winning play since it leads to a win, but trying to ping off the minion leads to nothing because if he has fireball he wins any no matter what.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 18, 2015, 08:08:49 am
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
I wouldn't say you've thrown anything away here.  That's an almost impossible situation.  It's usually safest to assume that a mage has a fireball in a 3-card hand, particularly late-game (especially if they've been holding back a particular card).  It's literally just a gamble - whatever you do, there's a possibilities you'll get punished for it.  I think I would have pyro'd the 9/9 too.

The question is which play led to a win vs which play led to you not losing as fast. Sometimes you can't play around cards because you will certainly lose of if you do. Many games I've had to play into flamestrike because otherwise I'd lose. So if you had no way to remove the 9/9 and he has cards and you don't, hitting face would be the winning play since it leads to a win, but trying to ping off the minion leads to nothing because if he has fireball he wins any no matter what.
Good point.  It depends a little bit on what's left in your deck though.  If you know that your final three cards are two fireballs and a flamestrike (extreme example), then the safe play is probably the better one.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 18, 2015, 08:26:54 am
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
I wouldn't say you've thrown anything away here.  That's an almost impossible situation.  It's usually safest to assume that a mage has a fireball in a 3-card hand, particularly late-game (especially if they've been holding back a particular card).  It's literally just a gamble - whatever you do, there's a possibilities you'll get punished for it.  I think I would have pyro'd the 9/9 too.

The question is which play led to a win vs which play led to you not losing as fast. Sometimes you can't play around cards because you will certainly lose of if you do. Many games I've had to play into flamestrike because otherwise I'd lose. So if you had no way to remove the 9/9 and he has cards and you don't, hitting face would be the winning play since it leads to a win, but trying to ping off the minion leads to nothing because if he has fireball he wins any no matter what.
Good point.  It depends a little bit on what's left in your deck though.  If you know that your final three cards are two fireballs and a flamestrike (extreme example), then the safe play is probably the better one.

Of course in that case you're right, I'd play it safe. Except I don't see the advantage of pinging the 9/9 minion anyway. if you aren't killing it and you know in your deck you aren't killing it, you're better off pinging face. Push for lethal when you can because you lose more games playing it completely safe.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 18, 2015, 09:19:19 am
I lost the game, though I threw away the victory.

Up 15-13, my opponent had a 9/9 on the board and 3 cards in his hand. I had a Sunfury Protector on board and a Pyro as my only card. I could've hit face and fireblast for 3, setting up my Pyro on the following turn, but if he had a Pyro or Fireball of his own he could do lethal - So I blasted his minion and kept my minion on board. Unfortunately he had neither spell, and instead dropped 3 minions on his next turn, and I was out of ways to recover.

Ah well. It was a fun match.
I wouldn't say you've thrown anything away here.  That's an almost impossible situation.  It's usually safest to assume that a mage has a fireball in a 3-card hand, particularly late-game (especially if they've been holding back a particular card).  It's literally just a gamble - whatever you do, there's a possibilities you'll get punished for it.  I think I would have pyro'd the 9/9 too.

The question is which play led to a win vs which play led to you not losing as fast. Sometimes you can't play around cards because you will certainly lose of if you do. Many games I've had to play into flamestrike because otherwise I'd lose. So if you had no way to remove the 9/9 and he has cards and you don't, hitting face would be the winning play since it leads to a win, but trying to ping off the minion leads to nothing because if he has fireball he wins any no matter what.
Good point.  It depends a little bit on what's left in your deck though.  If you know that your final three cards are two fireballs and a flamestrike (extreme example), then the safe play is probably the better one.

Of course in that case you're right, I'd play it safe. Except I don't see the advantage of pinging the 9/9 minion anyway. if you aren't killing it and you know in your deck you aren't killing it, you're better off pinging face. Push for lethal when you can because you lose more games playing it completely safe.
He was killing the 9/9. He had Pyroblast that he used on the 9/9 instead of dealing 10 damage to face.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 18, 2015, 09:59:35 am
But he had no way to win after he did that. He had no cards in hand.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 18, 2015, 10:09:28 am
But he had no way to win after he did that. He had no cards in hand.
This is true.  I'm increasingly convinced that about 70-80% of the time you should hold the pyro here. 

But I'm also convinced that a good decision cannot be made without knowledge of the what's left in your deck.  If the rest of your deck is good enough to win on topdecks (not QUITE as unlikely as it sounds), then the safe play is the better one.  Otherwise yeah you should make the greedy play and pray for no fireball.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2015, 06:55:53 pm
Currently 5-0 with this deck. Taking a break to go to work, but I like where this is going. Super Aggro:

Paladin:

2x Avenge
Blessing of Might
Hand of Protection
Repentance
Leper Gnome

Acidic Swamp Ooze
2x Argent Protector
Haunted Creeper
Loot Hoarder
Novice Engineer
Pint-Sized Summoner

Earthen Ring Farseer
Harvest Golem
Jungle Panther
2x Spider Tank
Tinkertown Technician

Truesilver Champion
Consecration
Dragonling Mechanic
2x Piloted Shredder

Fel Reaver
Frostwolf Warlord
Quartermaster
Silver-Hand Knight
Stampeding Kodo

Sunwalker
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 19, 2015, 11:46:51 pm
What would you do here? http://imgur.com/R4eGg7b
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 19, 2015, 11:48:16 pm
What would you do here? http://imgur.com/R4eGg7b

With no other information I'd just trade the 4/3 with the drake and hit face. Is there another play I should be considering?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on August 19, 2015, 11:54:31 pm
What would you do here? http://imgur.com/R4eGg7b

With no other information I'd just trade the 4/3 with the drake and hit face. Is there another play I should be considering?
Well, hitting the drake with your face then trading the questing adventuring is better value. Whether it's wise to go to 10 health here, I don't know. You have enough guys out to clear things from the board, but if he has Death's Bite and a charger, he will kill you before you kill him. I'd risk going to 10 life since he needs two cards to kill you from there, but I'm no expert. :P
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: nkirbit on August 20, 2015, 12:17:43 am
What would you do here? http://imgur.com/R4eGg7b

With no other information I'd just trade the 4/3 with the drake and hit face. Is there another play I should be considering?
Well, hitting the drake with your face then trading the questing adventuring is better value. Whether it's wise to go to 10 health here, I don't know. You have enough guys out to clear things from the board, but if he has Death's Bite and a charger, he will kill you before you kill him. I'd risk going to 10 life since he needs two cards to kill you from there, but I'm no expert. :P

One card is arcanite reaper.

You're really far ahead, I think I would play around reaper and kill the drake with the 4/3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 20, 2015, 12:27:42 am
I think killing the Drake with the Cobra is also a reasonable move, actually; it's stronger against Cleave and leaves with the most damage without taking 4 to the face.

Anyway, I ended up trading in the 3/3 and hitting with the dagger, and ended up losing when he topdecked a Gorehowl (with next-turn lethal for me). Using the Cobra would have also probably lost, as I needed it to clear a Sunwalker at some point, but using the 4/3 would've given me a chance.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 20, 2015, 09:46:27 am
I would have traded 4/3.
I don't think trading 3/3 is "better value". I mean, they are both 3 hp and die to most things, and you really need to preserve life total here.
I wouldn't use cobra if I could make a better trade as cobra can take down bigger things.

Edit: the only reason you would trade 3/3 is so that if he drops a x/4 you can trade in with 4/3 instead of 3/3 and face, but.. that is the exact same situation as one here.
And I do not really think the ability on trogg is worth much at all.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 20, 2015, 10:25:52 am
I would definitely rank using the 3/3 and dagger as the worst of the 3 options.  1 Attack is not better value, and Rockjaw Trogg's winmore is not better value either.

Since the Cobra had less health than the Rockjaw it seemed defensible to use the Cobra instead with the expectation that both the silent adventurer and burly Rockjaw would survive Slams and Cleaves.  It depends a little on the previous turn whether Slams and Cleaves are possibly sitting in hand.

Sunwalker coming into a world where Stormwind champion is already dead obviously makes you wish that you had the Cobra, but you can't see the future.

overall, all 3 pieces were of roughly equal value to you, so you should have used one of the ones that doesn't require Valeera's assistance to remove the Drake, probably the rockjaw.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 20, 2015, 07:01:07 pm
Yeah, taking 4 damage to the face for one extra total attack on the board MIGHT be worth it in the very early game, but not here, particularly when it could potentially put you in lethal range. 

Going down to 10 health is dodgy against any class except maybe priest.  In fact against priest I might even consider the 3/3-knife play, since you could argue that it also plays around shadow word pain.  But even then I think the 4/3 thing is marginally better.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 20, 2015, 10:03:15 pm
Thanks for the input all! Personally I think people are underestimating the comeback-killing potential of the Trogg effect, as it plays a huge role in lines where my opponent does something like Whirlwind-Execute on the Champion, which I suspect is the most likely way for me to lose the game. But saving the health is probably worth it.

Anyway, meanwhile in my current run... http://imgur.com/JwDfdwt
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 20, 2015, 10:09:38 pm
Jeezus. That's in rank with a post on reddit where a guy got a Thaddius in arena. (He drafted both Feugen and Stalagg).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 20, 2015, 10:22:31 pm
It's a little less ridiculous when you realize that he actually just Faceless Manipulatored my Sneed's, and later traded it into the Onyxia that popped from mine, then played his Kel'thuzad on the same turn, thus resulting in the board position pictured. Or maybe it isn't.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 20, 2015, 11:02:08 pm
Just yesterday I was at 6-2 and encountered an opponent who had Dr. Boom, Ysera, and Kel'thuzad. I lost.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 21, 2015, 11:36:29 am
Just had a 12 win paladin featuring 5 Shielded Minibots and 2 Argent Protectors.
Too bad getting those will get less likely with TGT, I'll miss them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 21, 2015, 03:04:34 pm
Just had a 12 win paladin featuring 5 Shielded Minibots and 2 Argent Protectors.
Too bad getting those will get less likely with TGT, I'll miss them.

I'm looking forward to facing less Paladins in Arena. It'll change things up. In my current run I have faced 4 Paladins and a Mage.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 21, 2015, 03:50:46 pm
With AoE increasing scarcity and Pally's solid inspirational hero power, I'm not sure Paladin will decline that much.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 21, 2015, 08:25:42 pm
With AoE increasing scarcity and Pally's solid inspirational hero power, I'm not sure Paladin will decline that much.
Plus pally has some really strong arena cards incoming, like the +3 attack/divine shield thing, or better, the guy who gives recruits +1 attack.  I think Pally might get even stronger overall.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 21, 2015, 08:54:07 pm
Speaking of Paladin, I finally got to draft Tirion in an arena run.

My deck also has 2 Truesilvers and 2 Consecrates, so if this doesn't go at least 7 wins I'm going to be really depressed about my Hearthstone skills.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 21, 2015, 09:12:06 pm
With AoE increasing scarcity and Pally's solid inspirational hero power, I'm not sure Paladin will decline that much.
Plus pally has some really strong arena cards incoming, like the +3 attack/divine shield thing, or better, the guy who gives recruits +1 attack.  I think Pally might get even stronger overall.
As far as rares go, they also get the 2/2-3 Argent Lance of 2 mana. That's not too shabby either in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 22, 2015, 12:39:47 am
I feel like Arena must be getting soft because I was at 4 wins and played against a Priest who had Stoneskin Gargoyle, Dalaran Mage, Raid Leader and Frostwolf Grunt. I don't see how you can get that far if you think those cards are good to draft unless you are playing against people who equally have no idea how Arena works when they drafted.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on August 22, 2015, 01:28:07 am
I feel like Arena must be getting soft because I was at 4 wins and played against a Priest who had Stoneskin Gargoyle, Dalaran Mage, Raid Leader and Frostwolf Grunt. I don't see how you can get that far if you think those cards are good to draft unless you are playing against people who equally have no idea how Arena works when they drafted.

You may have been playing at a weird hour, the other player may have won on pure tempo beating out decks with bad curves, or the rest of the deck could be good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 22, 2015, 04:55:11 am
Hey man, I just went 12-2 with a deck with Frostwolf Grunt. Give the dude a break, it's not his fault Anodized Robo Cub and Sparring Partner make him look like complete garbage.

I do feel like Arena has gotten a lot easier over the last few days. I've had a bunch of good runs in a row after a long streak of a sub-5 average. Makes me excited for TGT, because it's bound to get even softer once it comes out :^)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 22, 2015, 11:17:22 am
Hey man, I just went 12-2 with a deck with Frostwolf Grunt. Give the dude a break, it's not his fault Anodized Robo Cub and Sparring Partner make him look like complete garbage.

I do feel like Arena has gotten a lot easier over the last few days. I've had a bunch of good runs in a row after a long streak of a sub-5 average. Makes me excited for TGT, because it's bound to get even softer once it comes out :^)

It was Mind Visioning the Stoneskin Gargoyle that really got under my skin.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 22, 2015, 11:20:11 am
I tried Arena on the promise that it was easy right now and went 0-3 as a Priest.  This happens every single time. 

I suspect regional differences may play a part.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on August 22, 2015, 11:24:10 am
So I have this Paladin deck that's 11-1, and I was all ready to post here about "Man, that article was right; draft tons of 2 drops and cause 1 drop 2/1s higher than you think and then you can't lose", but then I looked at the deck list again and realized that it wasn't actually a deck of hanky 2 drops.

2 Noble Sacrifice
1 Clockwork Gnome

1 Equality
1 Annoyotron
1 Ironbeak Owl
1 Loot Hoarder
1 Mad Scientist
1 Micro Machine
3 Shielded Minibot
1 Wild Pyromancer

2 Muster for Battle
1 Dancing Swords
1 Deathlord
1 Ogre Brute
1 Shattered Sun Cleric

3 Truesilver Champion
2 Consecration
1 Burly Rockjaw Trogg
1 Ogre Magi
1 Piloted Shredder

1 Stormpike Commando

1 Drakonoid Crusher

1 Guardian of Kings
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 22, 2015, 11:24:44 am
I tried Arena on the promise that it was easy right now and went 0-3 as a Priest.  This happens every single time. 

I suspect regional differences may play a part.

I'm sorry I lied to you. (Where are you, I'm in the Pacific Northwest).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 22, 2015, 11:39:24 am
I tried Arena on the promise that it was easy right now and went 0-3 as a Priest.  This happens every single time. 

I suspect regional differences may play a part.

I'm sorry I lied to you. (Where are you, I'm in the Pacific Northwest).

EU eulways.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 22, 2015, 12:09:49 pm
So I have this Paladin deck that's 11-1, and I was all ready to post here about "Man, that article was right; draft tons of 2 drops and cause 1 drop 2/1s higher than you think and then you can't lose", but then I looked at the deck list again and realized that it wasn't actually a deck of hanky 2 drops.

<Rad Paladin Arena Decklist>

Your deck has 3x Shielded Mini-bot, 2x MfB,  3x Truesilver, 2x Consecration, good late drops, good curve, and all around high quality stuff. No kidding it's at 11-1.

It's still true that your 1-drops and 2-drops help out a lot.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 22, 2015, 12:10:58 pm
Hey man, I just went 12-2 with a deck with Frostwolf Grunt. Give the dude a break, it's not his fault Anodized Robo Cub and Sparring Partner make him look like complete garbage.

I do feel like Arena has gotten a lot easier over the last few days. I've had a bunch of good runs in a row after a long streak of a sub-5 average. Makes me excited for TGT, because it's bound to get even softer once it comes out :^)
Heck, I've gotten to 12 wins with Salty Dog as a Priest.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 22, 2015, 01:03:46 pm
I took a Frostwolf Grunt over a Stormwind Champion a while ago for curve purposes. It's a solid 2 drop about half the time.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on August 22, 2015, 01:28:44 pm
So I have this Paladin deck that's 11-1, and I was all ready to post here about "Man, that article was right; draft tons of 2 drops and cause 1 drop 2/1s higher than you think and then you can't lose", but then I looked at the deck list again and realized that it wasn't actually a deck of hanky 2 drops.

<Rad Paladin Arena Decklist>

Your deck has 3x Shielded Mini-bot, 2x MfB,  3x Truesilver, 2x Consecration, good late drops, good curve, and all around high quality stuff. No kidding it's at 11-1.

It's still true that your 1-drops and 2-drops help out a lot.

That's the point I was making; I went to post it and re looked at the deck and at that point realized how stacked it was.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 22, 2015, 03:07:10 pm
So I have this Paladin deck that's 11-1, and I was all ready to post here about "Man, that article was right; draft tons of 2 drops and cause 1 drop 2/1s higher than you think and then you can't lose", but then I looked at the deck list again and realized that it wasn't actually a deck of hanky 2 drops.

<Rad Paladin Arena Decklist>

Your deck has 3x Shielded Mini-bot, 2x MfB,  3x Truesilver, 2x Consecration, good late drops, good curve, and all around high quality stuff. No kidding it's at 11-1.

It's still true that your 1-drops and 2-drops help out a lot.

That's the point I was making; I went to post it and re looked at the deck and at that point realized how stacked it was.

Ah, I thought you were just commenting on the "meh"-ness of your 2-drops. They're better than "meh" now that I look at more.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 22, 2015, 08:10:31 pm
I don't see how you can get that far if you think those cards are good to draft unless you are playing against people who equally have no idea how Arena works when they drafted.
Pretty unfair comment, based on that alone. They might have been excellent players. Sometimes you just get crappy crappy picks and have to pick awful cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 22, 2015, 08:29:17 pm
I don't see how you can get that far if you think those cards are good to draft unless you are playing against people who equally have no idea how Arena works when they drafted.
Pretty unfair comment, based on that alone. They might have been excellent players. Sometimes you just get crappy crappy picks and have to pick awful cards.

Especially since you can get 4 wins with nearly any deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 22, 2015, 09:46:53 pm
This is one of the sickest decks I had in a while, it went 11-3 tho.

1 Holy Smite
1 PW:S
2 Northshire
1 Zombie Chow

1 Direwolf
1 Creeper
2 Showbower
2 Shrinkmeister

1 Velen's
2 Dark Cultist
1 Earthen Ring
2 Harvest Golem
1 Shattered Sun

1 Auchanai
1 Burly Trogg
1 Hungry Dragon

3 Holy Nova
1 Nightblade

1 Gadgetan
4!! Temple Enforcer

1 Troggzor
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on August 23, 2015, 04:02:49 pm
2 Showbower

(https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/1/5762064/il_214x170.126366436.jpg)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 24, 2015, 12:05:31 pm
2 Showbower

(https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/1/5762064/il_214x170.126366436.jpg)
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/1/5762064/il_214x170.126366436.jpg)
FTFY
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 24, 2015, 12:25:48 pm
4!! Temple Enforcer

That's quite a lot.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 24, 2015, 12:32:34 pm
4!! Temple Enforcer

That's quite a lot.
More than a mole of Temple Enforcers.  Heck.
EDIT:  https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 24, 2015, 12:41:52 pm
4!! Temple Enforcer

That's quite a lot.

He's not joking, and I am curious how you got around the deck size limit of 30.

4! = 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 24
4!! = 24!
24! = 24 * 23 * ... * 2 * 1 = 620448401733239439360000

Honestly though, I don't know if I'd be celebrating a deck of 620448401733239439360026 cards if you're probably only going to see some of your 620448401733239439360000 Temple Enforcers all game. Probably you're going to be dead by the time you start putting them out. The chances of you actually drawing into a good curve are pretty astronomically slim.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 24, 2015, 01:20:29 pm
Honestly though, I don't know if I'd be celebrating a deck of 620448401733239439360026 cards if you're probably only going to see some of your 620448401733239439360000 Temple Enforcers all game. Probably you're going to be dead by the time you start putting them out. The chances of you actually drawing into a good curve are pretty astronomically slim.

It went 11-3 tho.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on August 24, 2015, 02:05:58 pm
4!! Temple Enforcer

That's quite a lot.

He's not joking, and I am curious how you got around the deck size limit of 30.

4! = 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 24
4!! = 24!
24! = 24 * 23 * ... * 2 * 1 = 620448401733239439360000

Honestly though, I don't know if I'd be celebrating a deck of 620448401733239439360026 cards if you're probably only going to see some of your 620448401733239439360000 Temple Enforcers all game. Probably you're going to be dead by the time you start putting them out. The chances of you actually drawing into a good curve are pretty astronomically slim.

I am afraid that's just 8 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_factorial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_factorial))
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 24, 2015, 03:26:50 pm
Started my first TGT run! The rise of Druid seems to have been overstated, as I'm 1-2 right now... just finished a match against a Priest which went to double fatigue, in large part thanks to both players gaining like 20 life due to Tournament Medic, Ancient of Lore, Power Word: Glory, Thoughtstolen Tournament Medic, Converted Ancient of Lore, Zombie Chow, and both hero powers being used 10+ times. Almost managed to kill him in fatigue with my Dancing Swords, but his last card was a Temple Enforcer :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 24, 2015, 03:50:32 pm
4!! Temple Enforcer

That's quite a lot.

He's not joking, and I am curious how you got around the deck size limit of 30.

4! = 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 24
4!! = 24!
24! = 24 * 23 * ... * 2 * 1 = 620448401733239439360000

Honestly though, I don't know if I'd be celebrating a deck of 620448401733239439360026 cards if you're probably only going to see some of your 620448401733239439360000 Temple Enforcers all game. Probably you're going to be dead by the time you start putting them out. The chances of you actually drawing into a good curve are pretty astronomically slim.

I am afraid that's just 8 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_factorial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_factorial))
rekt

I had never even heard of Double Factorial before. I just assumed it should be interpreted as (n!)! Clearly I am bad at jokes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 24, 2015, 04:06:30 pm
Started my first TGT run! The rise of Druid seems to have been overstated, as I'm 1-2 right now... just finished a match against a Priest which went to double fatigue, in large part thanks to both players gaining like 20 life due to Tournament Medic, Ancient of Lore, Power Word: Glory, Thoughtstolen Tournament Medic, Converted Ancient of Lore, Zombie Chow, and both hero powers being used 10+ times. Almost managed to kill him in fatigue with my Dancing Swords, but his last card was a Temple Enforcer :(
Who predicted druid would rise?  Wildwaker is unreliable, Living Roots is somewhere between bad and ok, and Druid of the Saber is a great card but in a mana cost slot that all 9 classes have little problem filling with neutrals.

Meanwhile, Inspire emphasizes the quality of hero power in Arena, but while Druid doesn't have the worst hero power it definitely does not have the best hero power, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 24, 2015, 05:25:08 pm
Started my first TGT run! The rise of Druid seems to have been overstated, as I'm 1-2 right now... just finished a match against a Priest which went to double fatigue, in large part thanks to both players gaining like 20 life due to Tournament Medic, Ancient of Lore, Power Word: Glory, Thoughtstolen Tournament Medic, Converted Ancient of Lore, Zombie Chow, and both hero powers being used 10+ times. Almost managed to kill him in fatigue with my Dancing Swords, but his last card was a Temple Enforcer :(

I started a druid as well, am 1-1 but game went down.
I drafted Saraad, hope it carries me well.
OTOH, I was offered with very few 2 drops and ended with.. 0 of them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 24, 2015, 06:07:26 pm
My first TGT arena:

Shaman (I was offered hunter and warrior...)

1
Stonetusk Boar

2
Ancestral knowledge
(2) Crackle
Flametongue
Garrison Commander
Owl
Mad Bomber
Mechwarper
Totem Golem
(2) Zapomatic

3
Far Sight (ugh, my other options were ancestor's call and hobgoblin)
Hex
Lava Burst
Lightning Storm
Dalaran Mage
Ogre Brute
Unbound Elemental

4
Cult Master
DID
Evil Heckler
Violet Teacher

5
Faceless
Frostwolf Warlord
Spectral Knight
Venture Co.

6
Crusher
Sunwalker

9
North Sea Kraken

Overall, I'm not thinking this will go great.  But I'm excited for totem golem, and garrison commander.
Yeah, I went 1-3...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 24, 2015, 09:08:16 pm
Started my first TGT run! The rise of Druid seems to have been overstated, as I'm 1-2 right now... just finished a match against a Priest which went to double fatigue, in large part thanks to both players gaining like 20 life due to Tournament Medic, Ancient of Lore, Power Word: Glory, Thoughtstolen Tournament Medic, Converted Ancient of Lore, Zombie Chow, and both hero powers being used 10+ times. Almost managed to kill him in fatigue with my Dancing Swords, but his last card was a Temple Enforcer :(
Who predicted druid would rise?  Wildwaker is unreliable, Living Roots is somewhere between bad and ok, and Druid of the Saber is a great card but in a mana cost slot that all 9 classes have little problem filling with neutrals.

Meanwhile, Inspire emphasizes the quality of hero power in Arena, but while Druid doesn't have the worst hero power it definitely does not have the best hero power, that's for sure.

Well, the Heartharena folks did, at least. I dunno how much stock you put into their opinions, but they have Living Roots as better than all but two neutral commons, Druid of the Saber above the Yetis, and Savage Combatant and Darnassus Aspirant both better than ALL neutral rares (http://www.heartharena.com/tierlist). Wildwalker (not waker :P) is solidly above average, too.

Also, the slower meta (due to the presence of sustained-value cards in Inspires, more healing, and strong big commons like North Sea Kraken and Pit Fighter) gives Druids a big boost, since they've got the ramp to reach lategame faster and a lot of their strongest cards are best in the lategame. See this video for some discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xFwwKHjmeM
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 24, 2015, 10:18:41 pm
I done 4 arenas, 8-3, 5-3, 3-3 and.. 1-3. So not great.

But the fact that I got only 2 new packs and 2 old ones is REALLY demoralizing :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 24, 2015, 10:24:43 pm
Can you say value? http://i.imgur.com/3OqwDTc.jpg

Edit: Please ignore my last link: http://imgur.com/kdNyOD5
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on August 25, 2015, 04:30:02 am
Mukla's Champ animation is bonkers. And so is Murloc Knight. (the card, not animation).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 25, 2015, 06:34:42 am
Mukla's Champ animation is bonkers. And so is Murloc Knight. (the card, not animation).
Anyone else annoyed at how slow the joust animation is?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 25, 2015, 06:54:46 am
Mukla's Champ animation is bonkers. And so is Murloc Knight. (the card, not animation).
Anyone else annoyed at how slow the joust animation is?

Yes. Especially that card which puts the jousted card into your hand, why does it have to put it back into the deck before drawing it?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: EgorK on August 25, 2015, 07:11:47 am
Mukla's Champ animation is bonkers. And so is Murloc Knight. (the card, not animation).
Anyone else annoyed at how slow the joust animation is?

Yes. Especially that card which puts the jousted card into your hand, why does it have to put it back into the deck before drawing it?

Because they decided to not create custom joust animation for it and just used standard joust animation and standard draw animation
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on August 25, 2015, 09:11:24 am
Had a fantastic mage deck that was at 6/1 before tGT. Post TGT it ended 6/3. The new cards made a huge difference against a deck with none of them in it (mine).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 25, 2015, 10:43:07 am
Mukla's Champ animation is bonkers. And so is Murloc Knight. (the card, not animation).
Anyone else annoyed at how slow the joust animation is?

Yes. Especially that card which puts the jousted card into your hand, why does it have to put it back into the deck before drawing it?

Because they decided to not create custom joust animation for it and just used standard joust animation and standard draw animation
That's no excuse...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 25, 2015, 10:45:24 am
I guess they didn't want to make an exception for joust, because all other ones it just goes right back into your deck.   They would need an explicit exception for this one.  So I guess it makes sense from a coding perspective, it's just frustrating that on the front end they couldn't just change the animation or something.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 25, 2015, 10:46:57 am
They are high quality software engineers
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/18704213104?page=1#3
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 25, 2015, 12:03:18 pm
They are high quality software engineers
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/18704213104?page=1#3
You know, software engineers are supposed to be trained to communicate their code effectively and design to specification.

It seems that instead what they do is make a specification on cards then have the code only do approximately what the cards say whenever it is of convenience to the coder based on the current software. Maybe Jeeves and the empty deck interaction was treated this way too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 25, 2015, 02:02:57 pm
They also do it when it is of convenience for "balance" if you include the sneak Bloodsail Raider nerf and Water Elemental buff (Balance is in quotes because Bloodsail Raider wombo combo is weaker than Patron Warrior is right now).
Jeeves, Divine Favor, Leeroy+Knife Juggler, Holy Wrath+Molten, Sapping to a full hand (I mean, you gotta at least have like an official rules document saying "sapping to hand means destroy a minion", it's not like the operation is inherently defined) and now Mistcaller all have this "our code is right, our wording is right, your english or basic logic must be wrong" garbage to justify bad workmanship.  There's so much of the garbage that I forget some of it, like Shadow Madness, which is just not worth it for people complain about when there are other things wrong I guess.

Someone reported in the forums that Core Rager can't be played as a 7/7 while Starving Buzzard is out, which directly contradicts Warsong Commander's behavior with Bloodsail Raider.  Either "When you summon" triggers happen first or battlecry triggers happen first, not both.  They didn't even make a consistent switch.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 25, 2015, 03:43:07 pm
Why am I losing to decks with Wisps now?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 25, 2015, 04:13:33 pm
Why am I losing to decks with Wisps now?

As in plural? A single Wisp won't break a deck, and sometimes it really is the best choice, but usually only for purposes of curve.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 25, 2015, 04:39:57 pm
Why am I losing to decks with Wisps now?

As in plural? A single Wisp won't break a deck, and sometimes it really is the best choice, but usually only for purposes of curve.

Well, today I lost against a Hunter with just a single Wisp, but a while ago I lost against a Druid with two.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 25, 2015, 06:29:51 pm
Playing Priest in a pretty much lost game, my board is Spawn of Shadows and a 5/5 Holy Champion.
Opponent has a way bigger board, doesn't clear and leaves me at 4 hp.
I heal my face, triggering Spawn of Shadows and Holy Champion. Then I play Dark Iron Dwarf and Dire Wolf Alpha and hit him for 16 and exact lethal.

Somehow this average looking Priest deck is 7-0, and therefore has more wins then all my previous TGT arenas. Holy Champion is quite good apparently.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 25, 2015, 06:40:29 pm
Wisp helps you active Brave Hunter
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 26, 2015, 05:51:39 am
They also do it when it is of convenience for "balance" if you include the sneak Bloodsail Raider nerf and Water Elemental buff (Balance is in quotes because Bloodsail Raider wombo combo is weaker than Patron Warrior is right now).
Jeeves, Divine Favor, Leeroy+Knife Juggler, Holy Wrath+Molten, Sapping to a full hand (I mean, you gotta at least have like an official rules document saying "sapping to hand means destroy a minion", it's not like the operation is inherently defined) and now Mistcaller all have this "our code is right, our wording is right, your english or basic logic must be wrong" garbage to justify bad workmanship.  There's so much of the garbage that I forget some of it, like Shadow Madness, which is just not worth it for people complain about when there are other things wrong I guess.

Someone reported in the forums that Core Rager can't be played as a 7/7 while Starving Buzzard is out, which directly contradicts Warsong Commander's behavior with Bloodsail Raider.  Either "When you summon" triggers happen first or battlecry triggers happen first, not both.  They didn't even make a consistent switch.

I agree with all of this, it's all such a hack-job.  But the one problem that everyone seems to include in these lists of inconsistencies is Jeeves/Divine Favor.  Can someone explain to me what the issue is here?  Does Divine Favor work differently to Jeeves in fatigue?  If so, yeah that's a problem. 

If they're the same, I really don't see the issue.  Clearly you can't draw to X, so some contingency rule needs to be in place.  It's clear to anyone playing that a special rule must be put in place, so they just take a look at what it is.  This is a much better situation than other hackjob rules, where you can play a card without even realising that something obscure and weird/inconsistent is going to happen.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 26, 2015, 05:58:48 am
If they're the same, I really don't see the issue.  Clearly you can't draw to X, so some contingency rule needs to be in place.  It's clear to anyone playing that a special rule must be put in place, so they just take a look at what it is.

Yes, and that rule is called "fatigue". You take damage when you have to draw cards that you can't draw. If a card tells you to draw until a condition is met, then you should draw until that condition is actually met, and if it's a condition that can't be met, it should just mean that you take fatigue damage until you die.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 26, 2015, 06:48:31 am
If they're the same, I really don't see the issue.  Clearly you can't draw to X, so some contingency rule needs to be in place.  It's clear to anyone playing that a special rule must be put in place, so they just take a look at what it is.

Yes, and that rule is called "fatigue". You take damage when you have to draw cards that you can't draw. If a card tells you to draw until a condition is met, then you should draw until that condition is actually met, and if it's a condition that can't be met, it should just mean that you take fatigue damage until you die.
This is what I don't agree with.  I don't see that as the automatic, logical conclusion at all.  It's one of the options, certainly.  But I don't think it follows logically.  Given which, it makes sense that Blizz should go with a different option which is clearly much better from a gameplay standpoint.

EDIT: Also, see the auchenai soulpriest/mistress of pain interaction for examples of why "take damage until you die" is a bad thing.  You just wait around forever, at like -20 health and falling, like "alright, whatever, next game now please?"
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 26, 2015, 08:58:48 am
If they're the same, I really don't see the issue.  Clearly you can't draw to X, so some contingency rule needs to be in place.  It's clear to anyone playing that a special rule must be put in place, so they just take a look at what it is.

Yes, and that rule is called "fatigue". You take damage when you have to draw cards that you can't draw. If a card tells you to draw until a condition is met, then you should draw until that condition is actually met, and if it's a condition that can't be met, it should just mean that you take fatigue damage until you die.
This is what I don't agree with.  I don't see that as the automatic, logical conclusion at all.  It's one of the options, certainly.  But I don't think it follows logically.  Given which, it makes sense that Blizz should go with a different option which is clearly much better from a gameplay standpoint.

EDIT: Also, see the auchenai soulpriest/mistress of pain interaction for examples of why "take damage until you die" is a bad thing.  You just wait around forever, at like -20 health and falling, like "alright, whatever, next game now please?"
I think the game immediately ends with you losing once you reach <= 0 health. Same thing for fatigue. You wouldn't be waiting around that much.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on August 26, 2015, 09:26:06 am
I think the game immediately ends with you losing once you reach <= 0 health. Same thing for fatigue. You wouldn't be waiting around that much.
If that's true then it's a recent change.  I have been stuck for almost a minute several times with the auchenai thing, with my opponent's health reaching -25 or -30 before the game finally realises they're dead.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 26, 2015, 10:17:46 am
Just had the closest I ever came to a 12-0. My only loss was a dc in game 4.

I didn't expect this deck to do so well, since it had no AoE and some pretty subpar cards, but somehow it worked out. I never got low enough to play the Molten while i had it in hand by the way.
Quote
Illuminator
Chillwind Yeti x 2
Shattered Sun Cleric
Injured Kvaldir
Zombie Chow
Piloted Shredder
Pit Fighter
Polymorph x 2
Sunwalker
Abusive Sergeant
Knife Juggler
Violet Teacher
Flame Lance
Bomb Lobber
Fen Creeper
Puddlestomper
Lowly Squire
Arcane Missiles
Molten Giant
Bloodsail Raider
Boulderfist Ogre
Fireball
Amani Berserker
Madder Bomber
Mechanical Yeti
Stormwind Knight
Bluegill Warrior
Master Jouster
Madder Bomber
Molten Giant
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 26, 2015, 10:19:50 am
I think the game immediately ends with you losing once you reach <= 0 health. Same thing for fatigue. You wouldn't be waiting around that much.
If that's true then it's a recent change.  I have been stuck for almost a minute several times with the auchenai thing, with my opponent's health reaching -25 or -30 before the game finally realises they're dead.
Oh wow, that sucks. The devs have said the Auchenai/Mistress interaction is indented though, so it's not like they're 100% averse the infinite damage stuff.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Watno on August 26, 2015, 10:48:51 am
It's more they're 100% averse to changing their code if they can somehow get around it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 26, 2015, 10:59:32 am
Yeah, Auchenai+Mistress of Pain is already in the game to do infinite damage, so bending the rules is not a policy they are consistently using with regard to interactions like Divine Favor-Fatigue.  It's not really fair when some priest discovers in an endgame position in arena "Hey, that guy has 2 cards in hand and none in deck, I can kill him if I put a Finnicky Cloakfield on my Jeeves", then it doesn't work, then later the same game he pops a Piloted Shredder and finds Mistress of Pain is a victim of an infinite damage kill.
If Divine Favor really needs to function the way it does now (because players are illiterate?  Because it reaches the critical point of being underpowered if that 'draw one card take one fatigue' damage use case is no longer available? Because Jeeves has 4 health and omg how do you kill something so big in time?) then the text should simply be corrected to reflect its actual behavior, such as "Draw the number of cards you'd need to have as many in hand as your opponent."

Fun fact, Jeeves will actually repeat his draw quote multiple times when the infinite loop is supposed to happen, possibly because they had to do a crappy work around to break code that was working correctly at first.

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2015, 06:26:32 am
Man, Murloc Knight is sick.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on August 28, 2015, 07:47:04 am
Achievement unlocked: won a game I had no business winning by using Reversing Switch to make Goblin Sapper an 8/6.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 28, 2015, 10:59:34 am
Achievement unlocked: won a game I had no business winning by using Reversing Switch to make Goblin Sapper an 8/6.
Did you friend the victim in order to ask him what's Sappenin
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 28, 2015, 12:42:56 pm
Achievement unlocked: won a game I had no business winning by using Reversing Switch to make Goblin Sapper an 8/6.

I did that this week too! (except it was with a Crazed Alchemist) I have to ask, did you Faceless Manipulator the Goblin Sapper to make two of them? Because I did that. It felt good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on August 28, 2015, 03:54:58 pm
Was just playing an Arena game.

Opponent's Mind Control Tech?  Snags my 8/8 Frostwolf Warlord.

My Mind Control Tech?  Snags his Silver Hand Recruit.

*head desk*
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 28, 2015, 11:16:52 pm
Was just playing an Arena game.

Opponent's Mind Control Tech?  Snags my 8/8 Frostwolf Warlord.

My Mind Control Tech?  Snags his Silver Hand Recruit.

*head desk*

You clearly don't know the rules of MC Tech. That's how the card is supposed to work.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 28, 2015, 11:59:35 pm
Was just playing an Arena game.

Opponent's Mind Control Tech?  Snags my 8/8 Frostwolf Warlord.

My Mind Control Tech?  Snags his Silver Hand Recruit.

*head desk*

You clearly don't know the rules of MC Tech. That's how the card is supposed to work.

3 Mana: Screw Adam Wero over.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 29, 2015, 12:55:41 am
I think first and second place, Mage and Paladin, switched with this expansion.  Paladin got better class cards for sure, and the inspire mechanic works better with Paladin hero power than Mage hero power in general, because a 1/1 is always useful, while sometimes pinging face just to trigger an inspire effect is lame.  Also, as with every expansion, it's harder to get Flamestrike, and in turn harder to get double Flamestrike, a phenomenon that allows you to design a deck around the expectation of drawing Flamestrike at some point.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 29, 2015, 02:30:24 am
I think first and second place, Mage and Paladin, switched with this expansion.  Paladin got better class cards for sure, and the inspire mechanic works better with Paladin hero power than Mage hero power in general, because a 1/1 is always useful, while sometimes pinging face just to trigger an inspire effect is lame.  Also, as with every expansion, it's harder to get Flamestrike, and in turn harder to get double Flamestrike, a phenomenon that allows you to design a deck around the expectation of drawing Flamestrike at some point.

Here's some stats for the day 1 arenas recorded on Heartharena, if you're interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3iewpe/the_first_class_statistics_of_tgt_day_1_at/

Rogue   5.1245
Paladin   5.1162
Mage      4.8161
Druid      4.5671
Shaman   4.4695
Warlock   4.1866
Hunter   3.9658
Priest   3.8910
Warrior   3.6886
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 29, 2015, 04:18:15 am
Rogue   5.1245
Paladin   5.1162
Mage      4.8161
Druid      4.5671
Shaman   4.4695
Warlock   4.1866
Hunter   3.9658
Priest   3.8910
Warrior   3.6886

Huh, I'm surprised that Hunter is that low. I think it got pretty good class cards for Arena and I've been picking it over Druid, Shaman and Warlock and having decent results too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 29, 2015, 10:38:50 am
Effigy is fantastic in arena. Not a typical outcome, but I was behind against a shaman, dropped effigy and war golem then held back until he killed it and out popped Antonidas. I came back and won
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 29, 2015, 12:09:37 pm
I can believe hunter is that low. I picked it and only went 3 wins, despite some of the strong new cards like 2 Power shots and a decent curve.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on August 29, 2015, 12:52:03 pm
Rogue   5.1245
Paladin   5.1162
Mage      4.8161
Druid      4.5671
Shaman   4.4695
Warlock   4.1866
Hunter   3.9658
Priest   3.8910
Warrior   3.6886

Huh, I'm surprised that Hunter is that low. I think it got pretty good class cards for Arena and I've been picking it over Druid, Shaman and Warlock and having decent results too.

I think it's because there's just generally better control cards out there. Especially more ways to gain health that are decent. Hunter decks tend to play more aggressively even in arena so the availability of better neutral control cards hurts them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 30, 2015, 03:38:43 am
TGT in a nutshell: http://i.imgur.com/Zb4BxUB.jpg

Playing around the Hunter secret was interesting. Either Snake Trap or Bear Trap would've been a dream outcome, so I had to decide whether attacking face or the Minibot was better in the other cases.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 30, 2015, 12:20:00 pm
I had heard that the pack reward for Arena was weight to have TGT packs be more likely to be given out than packs from other sets.

I found a Reddit page supporting this news:
https://m.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3i83ep/psa_greater_chance_to_receive_tgt_packs_from/ (https://m.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3i83ep/psa_greater_chance_to_receive_tgt_packs_from/)

I've definitely noticed that I get more TGT packs than other types of packs. The majority of my pack rewards in Arena have been TGT, with the rest being GvG. For me this weighting accurately reflects the proportion in which I want TGT packs compared to the packs from the other sets. There are still a bunch of Epics from the previous sets I'd like to have.

If they make more GvG/TGT style expansion, then I think they'll want to reconsider the Arena reward system they currently have at some point.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 30, 2015, 01:15:40 pm
I think there might be a correlation between pack newness and the record you got in arena.  I get lots of base packs for 3-3s and my 12-2 run got a TGT pack
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 30, 2015, 01:31:36 pm
I think there might be a correlation between pack newness and the record you got in arena.  I get lots of base packs for 3-3s and my 12-2 run got a TGT pack

I got a GvG for 6-3.  Got a very sad disconnect in my first game, else I think it could have gone further: first time I've drafted 3 Flamestrikes. Also had two Pit Fighters, which were amazingly good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on August 30, 2015, 01:32:39 pm
With my incredibly high sample size of maybe 6 Arena runs, I think it might be based on how many cards you own from each set. I have been playing a lot of Arena ever since GvG was released, so usually a GvG pack is just 40 dust for me, but I don't have all that many Classic cards (I'm still missing a lot of commons, even). And I've gotten mostly Classic packs and TGT packs from my Arena runs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on August 30, 2015, 01:38:31 pm
I haven't found any correlation to how well I do in the Arena run with what pack I get. We need bigger sample sizes. I'll make notes of what pack I get in Heartharena, though it would be cool if Heartharena or Arena Mastery would try to compile statistics on the pack received by asking users to input what set the pack they got came from.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on August 30, 2015, 10:45:39 pm
I have 5 flamestrikes this run. Let no one ever accuse Blizzard of pseudorandoming the arena picks..
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on August 30, 2015, 11:10:43 pm
FWIW I've done 6 arenas and gotten all TGT packs.  It's the expansion I have least of by far as well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on August 30, 2015, 11:33:59 pm
I've only around 6 runs, but have no obvious trend to the packs I get. I own nearly all of GvG, and most of Classic.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on August 31, 2015, 04:33:06 pm
Mulch fail. (http://imgur.com/7U20wv8) 

It obviously didn't matter what I got at that stage though.  I'm disappointed that the deck didn't do better than 4-3.  The final loss was to a ridiculously aggressive Rogue that had 5 minions on the board by the end of turn 3 and took out all my early drops with Knife Juggler.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on August 31, 2015, 05:43:44 pm
Mulch fail. (http://imgur.com/7U20wv8) 
Jesus. What did he Mulch?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on September 01, 2015, 04:26:39 am
Mulch fail. (http://imgur.com/7U20wv8) 
Jesus. What did he Mulch?

I'm not certain, but I think it might have been Murloc Knight.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 09:21:01 am
Should have used Hungry Crab (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Hungry+Crab&filter-premium=1&display=3).  Doesn't he know (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=The+Black+Knight&filter-premium=1&display=3) specific (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Big+Game+Hunter&filter-premium=1&display=3) hatred (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Kezan+Mystic&filter-premium=1&display=3) minions (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Mind+control+tech&filter-premium=1&display=3) are (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Acidic+Swamp+ooze&filter-premium=1&display=3) the (http://static.ongamers.com/uploads/scale_small/0/2261/6143-6140-pagle-tilted-350w.png) druid (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Harrison+Jones&filter-premium=1&display=3) way (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Stampeding+Kodo&filter-premium=1&display=3)?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 01, 2015, 02:15:12 pm
are (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Acidic+Swamp+ooze&filter-premium=1&display=3) druid (http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filter-name=Harrison+Jones&filter-premium=1&display=3)

Let me tell you about my Savagery Ramp Druid with Blingtron and Harrison.

It's gotten better with Savage Combatant.

It's still not very good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 01, 2015, 02:36:24 pm
On that note, Savage Combatant is really good in arena. Solid stats for its cost and a 3 damage Hero Power is incredibly hard to deal with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 02:49:54 pm
Savage Combatant would be an interesting constructed card too if there were heuristics for druid cards other than "does this set me up to roar?"
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 01, 2015, 02:51:55 pm
It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on September 01, 2015, 02:58:58 pm
It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.

I have a Golden Druid hero and have never run the combo although I have run the card but rarely as the win condition and even then only way later maybe even after achieving golden because I never opened one until then.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on September 01, 2015, 03:16:24 pm
It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.

I have a Golden Druid hero and have never run the combo although I have run the card but rarely as the win condition and even then only way later maybe even after achieving golden because I never opened one until then.

Isn't Savage Roar soulbound?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 03:16:44 pm
5/6 top druid decks on hearthpwn run double roar.  The sixth one is explicitly for fun rather than actual ladder success, it's the Aviana-innervate-malygos-faceless-faceless-moonfire-moonfire deck.

There's no optimal druid deck with zero Roars.  Winning 500 times with a certain card choice doesn't mean the card choice is optimal in any way so I don't really get the point of the comment.  I got golden Hunter without using Arcane Golem because giving my opponent a mana crystal annoyed me, but I'm not going to sit here and disagree if someone said you can't build an optimal hunter deck without an Arcane Golem just because I won 500 games and lost 470 games without it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 03:19:10 pm
It is soulbound, thought it was common, not that that would have made much more sense.  I guess PPS probably mixed it up with Savagery a lot when he was checking his collection, or something.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on September 01, 2015, 03:24:44 pm
It is soulbound, thought it was common, not that that would have made much more sense.  I guess PPS probably mixed it up with Savagery a lot when he was checking his collection, or something.

I guess he could have meant FON.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 03:26:19 pm
But then he's saying he sometimes ran FON, but not the combo, and that's the worst part of the combo to run by itself by a mile.. it seems more likely that he mismanaged his collection, than that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 01, 2015, 04:36:41 pm
But then he's saying he sometimes ran FON, but not the combo, and that's the worst part of the combo to run by itself by a mile.. it seems more likely that he mismanaged his collection, than that.
Sure, but he really might have meant that he ran FON and not Savage Roar. Just because it isn't optimal doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I believe I only have 1 copy of FON. I don't play Druid that much, partly because I don't have good cards to make it work. No Ancient of Lore either
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on September 01, 2015, 05:15:27 pm
I certainly did not mean to imply that the decks I created were somehow optimal. Also, I saw not much point to Savage Roar without FON and I find the combo quite predictable and boring so chose to never run it. At some point I did add Savage Roar (and that point came after opening FON) but not with intent to combo but more like a multiplied Abusive Sergeant type of effect. The comment I responded to did not imply that FON-Roar was optimal but that there were no decks without it as a win condition. The deck I have that does not contain the combo can easily eke out a 50% win-rate in even today's meta precisely because it is unconventional and cannot be predictably played around. That the deck exists and can win reliably disproves the comment I responded to.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on September 01, 2015, 05:16:54 pm
I will say having run the deck for a couple hundred wins means I can play it extremely well even though I rarely play it anymore because I'm too busy chasing other golden portraits.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 01, 2015, 07:27:54 pm
Jorbles said there's not a druid deck that doesn't want it, not that there's not a druid player that doesn't want it.  If you have a ramp/taunt druid variant, it probably wins a couple % more games if you put 1x Force 1x Roar into it, whether you like that or not.  You probably don't need those couple %s because you're a great pilot. But that doesn't mean the deck itself doesn't want it.

I got to Black Knight Gadgetzan Druid February before last.  From rank 10-5 or so I didn't use any Force Roar because Force Roar had little to do with the deck's theme.  When I put 1x Force, 1x Roar in, almost to my dismay, the deck lost a few more games from drawing unaided Forces and won a few more games from drawing the combo, and the combo wins were outweighing the drags.

We're in the dark about what kind of deck it is, but it's either:

Mill druid, spell damage druid, leper gnome druid: 50% winrate is dependent on languishing in rank 15
Aggro Druid: 2 roars vastly improve the deck.
Midrange/token druid: 2 Roars and at least one force vastly improves the deck
Ramp/Taunt Druid: 1x force 1x roar slightly improves the deck's winrate, because sitting behind Sunwalkers while Ancient of Lore draws you cards, it's just gonna line up and steal games too many times.

There is no viable deck that doesn't want roar, but there are decks that don't need it. 

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 01, 2015, 07:56:50 pm
Pops is right about what I meant. I didn't really think it was that controversial a statement, just a lament about how the Druid class was designed.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on September 02, 2015, 09:00:26 am
Jorbles said there's not a druid deck that doesn't want it, not that there's not a druid player that doesn't want it.  If you have a ramp/taunt druid variant, it probably wins a couple % more games if you put 1x Force 1x Roar into it, whether you like that or not.  You probably don't need those couple %s because you're a great pilot. But that doesn't mean the deck itself doesn't want it.

I got to Black Knight Gadgetzan Druid February before last.  From rank 10-5 or so I didn't use any Force Roar because Force Roar had little to do with the deck's theme.  When I put 1x Force, 1x Roar in, almost to my dismay, the deck lost a few more games from drawing unaided Forces and won a few more games from drawing the combo, and the combo wins were outweighing the drags.

We're in the dark about what kind of deck it is, but it's either:

Mill druid, spell damage druid, leper gnome druid: 50% winrate is dependent on languishing in rank 15
Aggro Druid: 2 roars vastly improve the deck.
Midrange/token druid: 2 Roars and at least one force vastly improves the deck
Ramp/Taunt Druid: 1x force 1x roar slightly improves the deck's winrate, because sitting behind Sunwalkers while Ancient of Lore draws you cards, it's just gonna line up and steal games too many times.

There is no viable deck that doesn't want roar, but there are decks that don't need it.

I agree with all this. The deck in question is a Mech/Taunt druid. There's no Innervate so I'm going to say it doesn't ramp although curve is an important factor. Not even Ancient of War, so I'm not sure it fits any of your molds. No Shredders or Golems, no mech synergy, probably a little too dependent on the RNG of recombobulator but usually regenerating an Ancient or a Rag into something else is a win condition. Otherwise the idea is to absorb damage while reliably dealing it on every turn. The deck is a result of fine tuning it to a shifting meta so I expect as the current meta settles it will prove fairly ineffective but last week it was extremely effective. Heck, right now a bone stock mage build is proving highly effective.

1x Mark of the Wild
2x Wrath
2x Annoy-o-Tron
1x Faerie Dragon
1x Mechwarper
1x Micro Machine
1x Recombobulator
1x Sunfury Protector
1x Savage Roar
1x MC Tech
1x Shade of Naxx
2x Spider Tank
1x Tauren Warrior
2x Swipe
1x Arcane Nullifier
1x Healbot
1x Azure Drake
1x Bomb Lobber
1x Druid of Claw
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Spectral Knight
1x Starfire
1x Piloted Sky Golem
1x Ancient of Lore
1x Ragnaros

All that said, this is the wrong thread to discuss constructed decks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 02, 2015, 12:14:04 pm
Arena's on life support anyway.  Murloc Knight in Arena is We Didn't Playtest This At All.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 02, 2015, 08:30:33 pm
Have there been any stats recently on difficulty of opposition by time of day? I have my own biased impressions but I'm curious if there's anything to them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 02, 2015, 09:53:13 pm
Arena's on life support anyway.  Murloc Knight in Arena is We Didn't Playtest This At All.
Oh yeah totally. The other day I won a game I should have lost because Murloc Knight summoned another Murloc Knight two turns in a row.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 04, 2015, 03:18:21 am
Got my first Murloc Knight in a draft today. Got three, in fact.

Ended up going 10-3. Lost my last game because I forgot I had the client muted and went AFK. The card is pretty bonkers.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 04, 2015, 04:44:33 am
I just lost a game to Murloc Knight -> Hero Power -> Murloc Warleader summoned, forcing me to remove a 5/5 Murloc Knight since I didn't have the damage to remove Warleader first...

I've only played against it a few times, but it never fails to feel dumb and unfair.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on September 04, 2015, 05:03:54 am
Yeah Murloc Knight should be an epic, for arena balance purposes.  In constructed it's not actually overwhelmingly amazing (good, OP even, but so is everything in constructed), but in arena it's stupid.  Make it rarer, blizz!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 04, 2015, 07:24:58 am
Got my first Murloc Knight in a draft today. Got three, in fact.

Ended up going 10-3. Lost my last game because I forgot I had the client muted and went AFK. The card is pretty bonkers.

That shouldn't have been a common, that's all. They should have put the lance on common (or even Tuskarr) and bumped the knight to rare.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 04, 2015, 10:15:20 am
You'd think Blizzard would have learned a lesson about watching unbounded potential health growth when they had to swap the rarity of Questing Adventure and Flesheating Ghoul for arena balance back in beta.  Guess they forgot.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 04, 2015, 01:56:49 pm
You'd think Blizzard would have learned a lesson about watching unbounded potential health growth when they had to swap the rarity of Questing Adventure and Flesheating Ghoul for arena balance back in beta.  Guess they forgot.
Well, it's not like Boneguard Lieutenant is broken. Murloc Knight is just a really strong card.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 04, 2015, 02:24:02 pm
You'd think Blizzard would have learned a lesson about watching unbounded potential health growth when they had to swap the rarity of Questing Adventure and Flesheating Ghoul for arena balance back in beta.  Guess they forgot.
Well, it's not like Boneguard Lieutenant is broken. Murloc Knight is just a really strong card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dnmDpiA70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dnmDpiA70)

In this video, Blizzard reveals that, for now, the TGT cards are more likely to appear in the draft than other cards. According to Hearth Arena statistics, TGT cards are 25% more likely to appear. The extra probably of appearing from being a class card is in effect as well. This has lead to the classes that got good TGT commons shooting up in the Arena rankings (Paladin, Rogue, Druid) and the classes that got bad TGT commons dropping significantly in Arena (especially Warrior).

So, get ready to see a lot of Murloc Knight, Seal of Champion, Buccaneer, Undercity Valiant, and Flame Lance in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 04, 2015, 03:15:20 pm
You'd think Blizzard would have learned a lesson about watching unbounded potential health growth when they had to swap the rarity of Questing Adventure and Flesheating Ghoul for arena balance back in beta.  Guess they forgot.
Well, it's not like Boneguard Lieutenant is broken. Murloc Knight is just a really strong card.
Boneguard Lieutenant averages half as much health growth per turn.  If you try listing another card with 2 health growth per turn like Hogger or Kvaldir Raider, the answer is an awful lot closer to "yeah, that's broken in Arena too".
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 06, 2015, 11:15:22 am
Why are so many Druids playing super aggressively in Arena? I get attacking face over making a favorable trade when you already have a good board presence and especially if your opponent is pretty low on health, but a lot of Druids I play against start playing as though they were face Hunters from turn 1.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on September 06, 2015, 11:34:15 am
Why are so many Druids playing super aggressively in Arena? I get attacking face over making a favorable trade when you already have a good board presence and especially if your opponent is pretty low on health, but a lot of Druids I play against start playing as though they were face Hunters from turn 1.

They've entered Beast Mode.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 06, 2015, 01:23:06 pm
In HS, more beasts = more face.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 07, 2015, 08:34:06 pm
Randomly went 12-2 with a pretty generic Warlock deck: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/aol318

Got a lot of mileage out of my AOEs and managed to dodge the big minion avalanches from Druid and Priest, so my zoo-ish deck ended up working out. Won a couple games at 1 life, and saw Dark Bargain (which wrecked me) and Elemental Destruction (which didn't) for the first time.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on September 08, 2015, 04:47:04 am
Randomly went 12-2 with a pretty generic Warlock deck: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/aol318

What a curve!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 08, 2015, 06:08:41 am
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16948609/kalukka%20areena.png)

And I thought this was a fairly good deck...

EDIT: at least I opened Mal'Ganis from the pack.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 08, 2015, 07:27:07 am
I feel like arena has become so high variance that it's almost impossible to predict what a run will get.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on September 08, 2015, 07:39:31 am
I feel like arena has become so high variance that it's almost impossible to predict what a run will get.

You are guaranteed at least one rare card, though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on September 08, 2015, 07:46:50 am
I feel like arena has become so high variance that it's almost impossible to predict what a run will get.

You are guaranteed at least one rare card, though.
I think he's saying that even once you've seen the draft, it's hard to predict the number of wins.  I mostly agree, though in extreme cases you can usually roughly tell.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 08, 2015, 11:25:12 am
It's definitely harder to look at a deck and predict the number of wins than it was before.

I don't think it's THAT surprising that your deck went 0-3, though, Awaclus.  The curve is there, the average card quality is there, but there's a certain something missing and it's immediate cards.  Truesilver is the only card with Charge in the entire deck (except North Sea Kraken which is too late).

It does look like a 4-3 deck though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on September 08, 2015, 12:40:36 pm
I'm disappointed at how srs everybody is in the Hearthstone threads.

And I thought this was a fairly good deck...

EDIT: at least I opened Mal'Ganis from the pack.

Any ideas why you lost?  Were you running out of steam in the late game, or did people manage to out-tempo your wall of 2's?  Did your T3's feel bad?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 08, 2015, 01:03:00 pm
Any ideas why you lost?  Were you running out of steam in the late game, or did people manage to out-tempo your wall of 2's?  Did your T3's feel bad?

I was generally doing good things every turn in all of the games. Two of the games were super close and I think I could have won them with just better joust luck (over those two games, I failed 3 out of 3 Tuskarr Jousters and both opponents won their only Master Jouster jousts), and in the third one, my opponent got a bunch of small minions on the battlefield early and I couldn't remove them fast enough before he got a Mukla's Champion.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 08, 2015, 02:13:42 pm
I feel like arena has become so high variance that it's almost impossible to predict what a run will get.

You are guaranteed at least one rare card, though.
I think he's saying that even once you've seen the draft, it's hard to predict the number of wins.  I mostly agree, though in extreme cases you can usually roughly tell.

This is what I meant. I've drafted decent decks that for sure would get 4-6 wins, but I just lose from crazy RNG. And then I go 9-12 wins with a deck that has a ton of junk cards and a weird curve.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 13, 2015, 12:24:49 pm
It's pretty fun when you can give Saraad stealth.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 13, 2015, 12:38:31 pm
One day you guys will have to teach me arena drafting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on September 13, 2015, 01:45:21 pm
One day you guys will have to teach me arena drafting.

If you stream a draft on Twitch, there are totally people who will discuss every pick with you, live. It's fun!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on September 13, 2015, 07:10:05 pm
Heartharena is excellent when you're starting too.  Think about what you would pick beforehand, and think about why the recommendation is good afterwards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 13, 2015, 07:14:14 pm
Heartharena is excellent when you're starting too.  Think about what you would pick beforehand, and think about why the recommendation is good afterwards.
That's right. Sometimes you'll be surprised by how it can pick up in the weaknesses of your deck and make suggestions based on what your deck needs. Even if Heartharena doesn't recommend the best choice for a particular set of 3 cards, it's good to consider why they make a suggestion and why you don't agree with it.

Also yeah streaming an Arena run is pretty fun too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 13, 2015, 07:54:26 pm
I started using Haertharena and it's pretty good. I find myself picking a different card than it suggests around 1-2 times per run, and there are a lot of close picks where I could easily disagree with it's choices, but even just going with what it suggests and then reading it's analysis of your deck is very helpful. Also it tracks your stats an win rates, so you can pick classes that you do better with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: heron on September 13, 2015, 10:24:18 pm
My past three drafts have had a total of 5 legendaries between them  :o
(Ysera, Onyxia, Icehowl, Nefarian, Nexus-Champion Saraad)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 15, 2015, 11:45:48 pm
Whoah, if you play Astral Communion on 10 mana you get the Excess Mana card.  I found out when I cast Astral Communion right before clicking resign in arena.  Should have stayed in to see the topdeck.

That means it cycles for zero right? Whereas Wild Growth cycles for 2.

Of course I guess Wild Growth doesn't make you pitch your hand when you cycle it but in total topdeck mode it's not dead, that's cool
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 16, 2015, 10:00:05 am
They had mentioned that during release of TGT
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 16, 2015, 10:05:19 am
Yeah but I didn't know and now I'm super excited.

Also it's not like there is some clear spot for reading patch notes in order to learn the unwritten text of the new cards.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 16, 2015, 10:08:52 am
The TGT thread maybe?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 16, 2015, 11:06:49 am
There should be a link in the client like League.  Or actual ingame documentation which is actually kind of a duh thing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 16, 2015, 12:23:03 pm
Well yeah. I don't know why they don't put explanations in th collection, and show all the extra non collectible cards
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on September 16, 2015, 08:24:59 pm
So I just started using Heartharena at KingZog's suggestion and I decided to go purely by their picks.  I think it's a fairly strong draft.  It looks like it might be easy to fall behind, but I do have enough answers to hopefully stay ahead

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/5ng42h
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on September 16, 2015, 08:43:00 pm
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on September 16, 2015, 08:59:29 pm
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?
No idea.  but if it makes you feel any better, I'm 2-2...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 16, 2015, 10:56:06 pm
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?

1. Why did you pick Totemic Might?

2. Shaman is actually not good in arena. I think it's down near the bottom, not as bad as Priest or Warrior, but possibly 3rd worst.

3. Sometimes you just face amazing decks. Sometimes you play morons who play 2 wisps and never trade so that every card of yours goes 2 for 1.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 17, 2015, 03:03:23 am
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?

That happens more or less whenever you play Shaman against Mage in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 17, 2015, 10:39:46 am
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?
Flamestrike is basic.  Lightning Storm is rare.  Blizzard ruined Shaman vs. Mage arena fights back when those rarities were assigned.

Your experience is going to feel more well designed if you stick to Pally, Mage, and Rogue.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 17, 2015, 12:43:23 pm
I feel like Arena is intentionally shitting on me.  I drafted a Shaman whose only spell was Totemic Might, and faced a Mage with not one but *two* Flamestrikes, and a Blizzard.  Here I am playing with almost entirely neutral minions and you're practically playing a constructed deck.  What gives?

1. Why did you pick Totemic Might?

2. Shaman is actually not good in arena. I think it's down near the bottom, not as bad as Priest or Warrior, but possibly 3rd worst.

3. Sometimes you just face amazing decks. Sometimes you play morons who play 2 wisps and never trade so that every card of yours goes 2 for 1.

1. Yes, this. I would pick almost anything over that spell. Maybe I would consider it if my choices were Totemic Might, Magma Rager, Wisp, and I already had some Totem cards.

2. Shaman is okay in Arena, it's not as bad as Warrior and still playable. The elemental cards and many of the overload spells are quite strong. Shaman's have access to weapons and their hero power, though unreliable, can do a lot more than some of the other classes because it affects board state. Some of my best runs have been with Shaman, but maybe I just understand the class. I'm terrible with Priest btw even though some people seem to think it's good in Arena, so ymmv. For me, I'd consider Shaman on par with Warlock, Priest and Druid, which I guess means I think it's in the bottom half of the pack, but it can do well if your draft is average. At least it's not Warrior!

3. This is true.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 17, 2015, 03:07:34 pm
Yeah, I mean the classes are all pretty close except pally Mage and rogue kind of. But overload isn't actually that strong of an effect, and while their power affects the board, it affects it less than pally, Mage, rogue or Druid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on September 17, 2015, 03:37:07 pm
Speaking of Arena Shaman, I just played the following insane Shaman mirror: http://imgur.com/a/KAcFi

Featuring Ragnaros, Kodorider, Totemic Might, Elemental Destruction + Explosive Sheep, Sea Giant vs. Drakonid Crusher, and as the MVP, Stoneclaw Totem.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 17, 2015, 03:47:55 pm
But overload isn't actually that strong of an effect

Actually, the exact opposite is true cards with Overload would be stronger without it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on September 17, 2015, 06:04:10 pm
I decided to give Heartharena a try.  It recommended Totemic Might because I already had a Tuskarr Totemic and a Totem Golem and a couple Inspire minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 17, 2015, 07:45:48 pm
But overload isn't actually that strong of an effect

Actually, the exact opposite is true cards with Overload would be stronger without it.

I mean the effect of using your next turn's mana isn't that good. Playing overload off curve can be game losing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 17, 2015, 07:46:59 pm
I decided to give Heartharena a try.  It recommended Totemic Might because I already had a Tuskarr Totemic and a Totem Golem and a couple Inspire minions.

Double post!

What were the other options? Also heartharena isn't always right, especially when it looks at synergies. Like it says spells synergize with Venture Co. Mercenary. And sure, they don't suffer the extra mana downside, but that isn't a reason to pick a bad spell over a good minion.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 17, 2015, 09:56:50 pm
I have a feeling there was some rough drafting of ideas when TGT came out and not removing them out of the system later.

The proportion of totems you'd need in your deck for Totemic might to be good is through the roof.  The simulator very likely made a bad call.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on September 17, 2015, 10:22:29 pm
Eh.  Still got 5 wins with the deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 18, 2015, 03:35:51 pm
What's the pick here?
(http://i58.tinypic.com/21ls9qo.png)

Heartarena says Shredder 79.02 Velen 80.84 Knight 56.90

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 18, 2015, 03:42:32 pm
What's the pick here?
(http://i58.tinypic.com/21ls9qo.png)

Heartarena says Shredder 79.02 Velen 80.84 Knight 56.90

I would probably pick Shredder.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 18, 2015, 03:50:23 pm
Piloted Shredder.


Is it a prank because I feel silly for looking at the other two cards before making my recommendation?

I guess you might pick Holy Nova over Piloted Shredder but it's actually really close.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 18, 2015, 03:56:25 pm
Also count me in the Shredder camp. In arena I find the hardest thing for Priest is getting board control in the first place, but once you get it you can steamroll with your Hero Power, so I prefer cards that give control (Shredder) over cards that give more control if you have a bit (Velen's)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 18, 2015, 04:01:07 pm
Piloted Shredder.


Is it a prank because I feel silly for looking at the other two cards before making my recommendation?

I guess you might pick Holy Nova over Piloted Shredder but it's actually really close.
Well Velen's Chosen can win the game for you sometimes, but Piloted Shredder is just good value all around. If you already had over six 4-drops of quality and lots of 2 drops you might consider Velen's Chosen, but in this draft you want a quality 4 drop more than a conditionally good card.

Totally Shredder.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 18, 2015, 04:06:37 pm
I actually like Velen's a lot in arena (Prist is my fav arena class, actually), but I did pick Shredder.


Deck is fine, I do lack a bit of lategame (I got a Kraken and a Stormwind, but nothing on 6 (I did pass an Ogre early), thou I have strong 5 drops) and on the last pick I could choose a Sea Giant which is awesome of course but given that I have 2 Shadow Madness-es I had to go with Recocombulator for sheer hilariousness :) (he is good also)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 18, 2015, 04:13:06 pm
When I tried drafting Astral Communion, I unfortunately also got a Piloted Shredder and twice I felt obligated to wait until turn 5 to commune with the stars.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theright555J on September 18, 2015, 05:52:53 pm
Hi guys, pretty much n00b Hearthstone player here.  Having some difficulty doing well in Arena.  Just had this draft as Hunter, made with help of the tier list.

Murloc Raider
Webspinner x2

Bear Trap
Snipe
Amani Berserker
Bloodsail Raider
Boneguard Lieutenant
Gilblin Stalker
King's Elekk
Mad Scientist

Kill Command
Gnomish Experimenter
Scarlet Crusader
Shattered Sun Cleric
Silent Knight
Spider Tank
Wolfrider

Dark Iron Dwarf
Gnomish Inventor
Hungry Dragon
Silvermoon Guardian
Spellbreaker

Explosive Shot
Madder Bomber
Stampeding Kodo

Argent Commander
Volcanic Drake
Sylvanas Windrunner

Gladiator's Longbow

Thoughts?  Is this deck any good?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 18, 2015, 05:57:25 pm
Hi guys, pretty much n00b Hearthstone player here.  Having some difficulty doing well in Arena.  Just had this draft as Hunter, made with help of the tier list.

Murloc Raider
Webspinner x2

Bear Trap
Snipe
Amani Berserker
Bloodsail Raider
Boneguard Lieutenant
Gilblin Stalker
King's Elekk
Mad Scientist

Kill Command
Gnomish Experimenter
Scarlet Crusader
Shattered Sun Cleric
Silent Knight
Spider Tank
Wolfrider

Dark Iron Dwarf
Gnomish Inventor
Hungry Dragon
Silvermoon Guardian
Spellbreaker

Explosive Shot
Madder Bomber
Stampeding Kodo

Argent Commander
Volcanic Drake
Sylvanas Windrunner

Gladiator's Longbow

Thoughts?  Is this deck any good?  Thanks!

Looks very good for a Hunter deck to me.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: theright555J on September 18, 2015, 06:06:44 pm
Thanks! My choices were Hunter, Druid, and Warrior. I have the best class cards for Hunter so I'm the most comfortable with that class.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 18, 2015, 06:22:43 pm
It looks okay, but it has a timing window. You want to try and take control of the board, get some damage in and then win before your opponent can take complete control of the board back with bigger minions.

The hardest part you will have with this deck is when you don't take over board early and you're still fighting with your opponent for control around turn 5-6. You can get outlasted by more control-oriented decks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 19, 2015, 02:03:14 pm
I just had this sweet super-synergetic Priest deck:
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z96f77


It had this Inspire package of
2x Holy Champion
Silver Hand Regent
Recruiter
Tournament Medic
Kvaldir Raider
Shadowboxer

Than the dragon package (Twilight Whelp, Twilight Guardian and Drakonid)
And than the more usual ones like SW:Pain/Shrink, Echoing Ooze or Micromachine + Velens or PW: Shield .. it was so sweet.
3x Dark Cultist helped as well.

On a different note, What's the pick?

(http://i60.tinypic.com/ok1v82.png)

This is what heartarena says Keeper 81.10 Savage 92.69 Darnauss 87.05. I actually agree.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 19, 2015, 02:26:37 pm
Huh, I think I'd normally take Darnassus or Keeper depending on what my deck needed more, but having the Knight of the Wild makes me want to take Savage Combatant. It's a good four drop and it's a great 6 drop. I'm honestly surprised to see Keeper rated so low in comparison to the Combatant though, thought it would be closer.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 19, 2015, 02:29:38 pm
I'd take Combatant over Keeper. Combatant has a way better body and most of the time also provides that 2 damage (sometime instantly as well) that Keeper does. And if he survives a turn the difference in value is even greater.

Darnauss is a bit harder to evaluate in arena, much more 3/2 for 2 running around, but if you get a mana or two out of him you can really get ahead.
I passed on Darnauss but I got to pick a Wild Growth later.

And I ended with 8 beasts + Wildwaker + Knight, so that part payed off as well.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 19, 2015, 02:31:40 pm
It's definitly not darnassus. It'll often just be a 2/3. I think it's close between the other 2, but I'd pick savage combatant. The body is better, and the inspire can get more value than just the 2 dmg. Although neither is actually a bad pick.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 20, 2015, 01:18:56 am
It's definitly not darnassus. It'll often just be a 2/3. I think it's close between the other 2, but I'd pick savage combatant. The body is better, and the inspire can get more value than just the 2 dmg. Although neither is actually a bad pick.
Also in Arena I don't think the silence effect is as poweful as in Constructed on average. In constructed like almost every card has good card text. That's not quite the case in Arena, although the change of seeing more gimicky cards is higher.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 22, 2015, 02:11:21 am
What's your pick and prediction for the deck?

(http://i.imgur.com/Gos8gsg.jpg)

The 3 other cards in my deck are: 1x Stranglethorn Tiger, 1x War Golem, 1x Sprint.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 22, 2015, 05:30:19 am
What's your pick and prediction for the deck?

(http://i.imgur.com/Gos8gsg.jpg)

The 3 other cards in my deck are: 1x Stranglethorn Tiger, 1x War Golem, 1x Sprint.

Gruul for sure. It's hard to predict how this kind of deck will do, since you don't have a lot of stuff going on in the early game, and depending on the decks you play against, you might lose because of that or you might get away with it and win because of your stronger mid game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 22, 2015, 05:38:48 am
7k gold? nice.

What did you do? :D

On topic: I agree, Gruul for sure.
Gazlowe does nothing in your deck and Millhouse is terrible.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 22, 2015, 08:33:20 am
7k gold? nice.

What did you do? :D

On topic: I agree, Gruul for sure.
Gazlowe does nothing in your deck and Millhouse is terrible.
Gruul can make your opponent rage, calling BS on you and your deck. Gazlowe and Manastorm don't do that. Gruul is totally the pick to make.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on September 22, 2015, 08:35:01 am
Gruul was my favorite boss in whatever expansion of WOW that was.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 22, 2015, 10:28:50 am
Grvuldir Raidergolem.

Does not look like a 7+ deck because so many of your turn 4 plays can't be made if you're ahead on board.  Probably going to bite you a few times. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 22, 2015, 11:20:47 am
Grvuldir Raidergolem.

Does not look like a 7+ deck because so many of your turn 4 plays can't be made if you're ahead on board.  Probably going to bite you a few times.

Any bar is fine turn 4, especially if your turn 3 plays have good battlecries, like shattered sun. You just need to play for value instead of tempo, which can sometimes be weird for rogue.


On a seperate note, I'd like to know how many of my good runs hve sun walker or frost elemental in the deck. Both are great to seal a game that I've been winning on early tempo, which is a lot of arena games. Especially since more controlly decksof play a big value minion to catch up, but both of those cards stop big guys in their tracks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 22, 2015, 11:22:59 am
Grvuldir Raidergolem.

Does not look like a 7+ deck because so many of your turn 4 plays can't be made if you're ahead on board.  Probably going to bite you a few times.

Any bar is fine turn 4, especially if your turn 3 plays have good battlecries, like shattered sun. You just need to play for value instead of tempo, which can sometimes be a fancy way of conceding for rogue.


FTFY
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 22, 2015, 12:09:13 pm
Grvuldir Raidergolem.

Does not look like a 7+ deck because so many of your turn 4 plays can't be made if you're ahead on board.  Probably going to bite you a few times.

Any bar is fine turn 4, especially if your turn 3 plays have good battlecries, like shattered sun. You just need to play for value instead of tempo, which can sometimes be a fancy way of conceding for rogue.


FTFY

Not at all. Rogue is one of my best classes, my average being almost 7 wins with the class. You can play for value. Sure you drft needs to but a bit stronger, but with pally being te best class, that 5 hp might let it live for te downside not to take effect. Or you can make it an upside. But I've own lots of games with rogue decks that get value. It's not constructed. Dark iron skulker is good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 22, 2015, 12:16:52 pm
Does this link work for anybody?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/5m575g

EDIT: Incognito suggests it will.

That's my first arena run with heartharena.com. I'm not a fan of "tempo" decks, preferring hard aggro or hard control, but this felt okay most of the time. I really struggled to play catch up once I lost tempo though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 22, 2015, 12:28:26 pm
If I had to choose a pick where I think HearthArena was wrong, it's pick #4.  Quality 4 drops are generally plentiful, while quality 3 drops are generall scarce.  This was a huge common knowledge during classic and naxx, then GvG hit and there was a huge influx awesome 3 drops and everyone was like whoa maybe you can pass on good 3 drops sometimes, but now with TgT out and fewer GvG cards in the mix (it biases towards TgT instead of bias towards GvG now) getting enough turn 3 plays can be an issue.

By pick 4 you already have a solid 4 drop, and you have Arcane Intellect, which helps fulfill the "outvalue their hand" role that Polymorph shares space on.  Picking up a turn 3 play for fear you don't see many more turn 3 play in the next 26 seems like priority to me.  (It's actually even slightly exacerbated by your turn 4 play wanting a target)

The way things panned out, you did indeed get starved for turn 3 plays, so much so that later on Heartharena was pushing the value of Raging Worgen up to huge amounts, desperate for you to at least get that incredibly mediocre turn 3 play into your deck.

Most of its picks were pretty correct.  You had to play Master Swordsmith, that always sucks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 22, 2015, 12:51:53 pm
The worgen ended up swinging for 10 in one game, locking down the win.  I'll post my next run when I lose my third. It's going poorly,  as a tempo warlock. I will say one game I know was a misplay where I could have dropped his stormwind champion and then dread infernal would have cleared the board, but I don't know if that would have given me the win.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 23, 2015, 12:57:51 am
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/2w7b7e for my warlock run.

I ended up just blown completely out of fuel vs the warlock in the mirror. His deck had a bit heavier top-end and we'd managed somehow to be sitting with both of us about to run out of cards and all my answers gone.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 23, 2015, 09:55:00 am
Oh my gosh.  I moused over my join date anniversay icon on mafiascum earlier in this browser window, then closed that tab and came over here.  Saw chairs' post and is like, hey, let's check out his warlock deck

I mouse over his Knife Juggler (just because Knife Juggler is a good card and that makes me wanna mouse over it.) and a dropbox off the mouseover says "Happy Scumday!"

I'm like wtf this knife juggler knows everything about my life look at his evil mischievous eyes he is going to bring chairs' Azure Drake to my house and Implosion me for 10 damage

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah so creepy
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 23, 2015, 09:57:44 am
I can't reproduce the bug.  So weird.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 23, 2015, 12:41:12 pm
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/2w7b7e for my warlock run.

I ended up just blown completely out of fuel vs the warlock in the mirror. His deck had a bit heavier top-end and we'd managed somehow to be sitting with both of us about to run out of cards and all my answers gone.

Rough draft, I think you did pretty well all things considered. You were forced to take a lot of mediocre and outright bad cards with the draft and still turned it into a 4 win run.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 23, 2015, 12:46:59 pm
Would you guys be interested if I started streaming this stuff on twitch or hitbox and maybe posting each game to youtube?

EDIT: Clearly not as like a "Look I'm amazing", but more of just an opportunity for me to both discuss my thought processes and also to get opportunities for critique.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 23, 2015, 12:51:46 pm
Would you guys be interested if I started streaming this stuff on twitch or hitbox and maybe posting each game to youtube?

EDIT: Clearly not as like a "Look I'm amazing", but more of just an opportunity for me to both discuss my thought processes and also to get opportunities for critique.

I'd be interested in watching a stream if I happen to notice it when it's on. Not so interested in watching it from YouTube.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 23, 2015, 12:58:43 pm
I will watch your games only if I'm allowed to tear into them.

I've been told I don't have any healthy ways of watching other people play.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 23, 2015, 01:06:19 pm
I will watch your games only if I'm allowed to tear into them.

I've been told I don't have any healthy ways of watching other people play.

Conviction is still a virtue.

I might watch a stream if I'm free it, but I wouldn't watch a saved YouTube video.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 23, 2015, 01:07:30 pm
Conviction is a Paladin Secret, it just hasn't been released yet.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 23, 2015, 02:07:52 pm
I would watch live if it was on when I was just watching a stream anyways. If you make a twitch account I'll follow you. Probably wouldn't watch after the fact, not really that exciting to watch an old stream usually.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 23, 2015, 06:31:52 pm
I feel dirty.

Turn 6 Ball of spiders.
Turn 7 2x Hyena, Kill Command. I actually get King Crush from Spiders and even have a coin to cast him next turn.
Turn 8 plays Muster so I Unleash instead. I get 2 14/x hyenas or something like that.

Turns out Ball of Spiders is preeeetty good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 23, 2015, 06:42:00 pm
Arena has taught me how much I want to play a warlock with imp-losion and knife juggler and more imp-losion-esque enablers.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 23, 2015, 06:50:01 pm
It won me the next game as well. I got a Savanah and Krush from it. :D
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 23, 2015, 07:33:47 pm
Haven't had the chance to play Ball of Spiders yet, but a Muster that draws 3 random Beast cards seems like lots of value. It is Hunter though, so you usually want more tempo instead.

As for which pick I did, I haven't done the pick yet, I was genuinely asking a question. It's between Gruul and Millhouse, and Gruul is the choice that's obvious, but I was really tempted to pick Millhouse. (This is also how I stockpile gold - when you only play 0.5-0.7 arena runs per day, you can stockpile lots of daily quest gold to become a quasi-infinite arena player.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 23, 2015, 10:18:51 pm
Haven't had the chance to play Ball of Spiders yet, but a Muster that draws 3 random Beast cards seems like lots of value. It is Hunter though, so you usually want more tempo instead.

As for which pick I did, I haven't done the pick yet, I was genuinely asking a question. It's between Gruul and Millhouse, and Gruul is the choice that's obvious, but I was really tempted to pick Millhouse. (This is also how I stockpile gold - when you only play 0.5-0.7 arena runs per day, you can stockpile lots of daily quest gold to become a quasi-infinite arena player.)

I think Millhouse is still pretty bad. For every game he wins you you'll lose one because of him. In Arena I am not happy with a 3 win run, but ymmv. Gruul will be a lot more reliable.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 23, 2015, 11:34:39 pm
The state of class diversity in arena is well represented by my run here.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 24, 2015, 02:43:23 am
The state of class diversity in arena is well represented by my run here.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v)

Too many Shamans.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 24, 2015, 09:46:06 am
The number of Warriors encountered in the run was 2 higher than the average expected number for an 11 game run.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 24, 2015, 11:06:54 am
I'm fighting a Warrior in Arena right now! Such a rarity!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 24, 2015, 11:44:11 am
Jorbles it's not ok to lie when you're not in the mafia games subforum.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on September 24, 2015, 12:39:32 pm
Jorbles it's not ok to lie when you're not in the mafia games subforum.

I'm gonna call him on this as well. I think they've removed Warrior as an option completely. I've been sitting on two quests to win with Warrior for almost a week. 10+ runs and I haven't even had the option to pick Warrior. So there's no way he's playing against one. My sample size is definitely large enough to make broad, sweeping statements about the game and every other users experience.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 24, 2015, 12:53:41 pm
I actually lost against a Warrior on Arena a few days ago. I don't remember the details, but it was a pretty close game after his only minion survived the Brawl which also killed 4 of my minions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 24, 2015, 02:38:36 pm
The state of class diversity in arena is well represented by my run here.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v)

Too many Shamans.

I see tons of shaman in arena actually. It's not a good class, but people are still on the TGT hype for it
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 24, 2015, 02:45:14 pm
The state of class diversity in arena is well represented by my run here.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v)

Too many Shamans.

I see tons of shaman in arena actually. It's not a good class, but people are still on the TGT hype for it

Really? I hardly see them at all. Guess just variance.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on September 24, 2015, 02:50:35 pm
The state of class diversity in arena is well represented by my run here.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v (http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/m0it7v)

Too many Shamans.

I see tons of shaman in arena actually. It's not a good class, but people are still on the TGT hype for it

Really? I hardly see them at all. Guess just variance.

My last three runs were Shaman oddly enough. All ended 5-3. Now I'm running a Mage with Dr. Boom & Foe Reaver.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 24, 2015, 03:02:52 pm
Shaman seems like it would be good, but it's not that good. I see a decent amount of priest too, which is strage because they are basically free wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 24, 2015, 03:06:05 pm
Priest is a really strong newbie class.  It's a high variance class because they are brutalized by a do nothing hero power if they fail to curve out, but have a great stay-in-the-lead hero power if they curve out and their opponent doesn't and they can top off their minions constantly.  Newbies like high variance classes, it's their best chance to go 3-3 occasionally.  But when they roll their way into 5-2 they tend to lose their because the overall power level is low.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Grujah on September 24, 2015, 03:16:16 pm
I had pretty good arenas today. First I had an insane paladin with all essentials (Muster, Murlock, Consecrate, Truesilver, Minibot) + Tiron and Thermublugg that went 11-3. followed by a pretty mediocre priest with really nothing spectacular (like, 2x Ogres where the most exciting thing) that went 8-0 (than 8-3).

Even opened a Dreadscale! \o/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 24, 2015, 05:07:39 pm
I think Priest is like, my best class in Constructed, but in Arena I'd really like to be playing Mage/Hunter/Warlock as much as possible. Maybe Paladin, but I don't feel I know how to pilot Paladin very effectively.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 25, 2015, 09:32:38 am
I think Priest is like, my best class in Constructed, but in Arena I'd really like to be playing Mage/Hunter/Warlock as much as possible. Maybe Paladin, but I don't feel I know how to pilot Paladin very effectively.

The issue would have to be failing to draft Paladin effectively or getting unlucky.  The gulf between Paladin and Hunter is so huge that you could select the worst turn 2 play out of all your 2 drops, pick the worst turn 3 play out of all your three drops, Dark Iron Dwarf the wrong target, Truesilver for face when you need board control, and still win slightly more games than a perfectly piloted hunter deck. 
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 25, 2015, 10:32:46 am
Priest has a whole bunch of gimicky cards and combos in their arsenal. They're unreliable in constructed, and certainly suck in Arena. As a Priest, try to draft for as much value and board presence as possible over Divine Spirit/Inner Fire kind of stuff. You need targets for Velen's Chosen and PW:Shield after all. Try to only draft a Circle of Healing if you have Clerics and/or Auchenai.

A lot of stuff has to align properly to have a good Priest run. Same for Hunter and Warrior. For Paladin, you draft a couple of Truesilver/Consecration/Murloc Knight and oop 5 win run right there.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 25, 2015, 11:22:21 am
Hunter can have decent runs without perfect decks. Draft a low curve, play a card turn 1 through 4 and you're set for 50% of games.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 25, 2015, 12:06:32 pm
I think Hunter is definitely a decent class. The hero power just does so much for you if you manage to out-tempo your opponent in the early game. And there are a lot of things that can just work out super well and then you win because of that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on September 25, 2015, 12:41:39 pm
My average wins as Hunter is far higher than any other class. Almost 7.0/run. If I get fewer than 4 wins I'm very disappointed. That said, over my last 50 games played -against- Hunter, I'm 42-8. I'm not certain how to interpret those figures being so different.

Paladin and Mage are definitely the next two "best" classes for me, at about 5.5/run.
Shaman and Druid run middle of the pack, about 4.5/run.
Warrior, Rogue & Priest I'm happy to get 3 wins. Anything more is bonus.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on September 25, 2015, 12:58:02 pm
My average wins as Hunter is far higher than any other class. Almost 7.0/run. If I get fewer than 4 wins I'm very disappointed. That said, over my last 50 games played -against- Hunter, I'm 42-8. I'm not certain how to interpret those figures being so different.

Paladin and Mage are definitely the next two "best" classes for me, at about 5.5/run.
Shaman and Druid run middle of the pack, about 4.5/run.
Warrior, Rogue & Priest I'm happy to get 3 wins. Anything more is bonus.

I too do way better on Hunter. (6.12 wins average, it's my best class) I think some people either draft or play it differently than I do and that hurts their chances with Hunter. I always try to play it like you'd play an aggro deck, and when I'm given close choices I usually go with whatever is more aggro.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 25, 2015, 01:34:16 pm
Hunter is great, it's just not broken.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on September 25, 2015, 02:49:02 pm
So... I'm currently loving this deck:

Warlock

Power Overwhelming
2x Cogmaster
Flame Imp
Murloc Raider

Dark Bomb
Annoy-o-Tron
Dire Wolf Alpha
Frostwolf Grunt
Loot Hoarder
Mechwarper
Micro Machine
Pint-Sized Summoner

Demonwrath
Coliseum Manager
Harvest Golem
Hobgoblin
Imp Gang Boss
Shattered Sun Cleric
Spider Tank

Hellfire
Defender of Argus
Fel Cannon
Gnomish Inventor
Mechanical Yeti
Piloted Shredder
Sen'jin Shieldmasta

Sludge Belcher
Spectral Knight

Fearsome Doomguard

-----

Murloc Raider doesn't do much except be a 1 Drop.
Hobgoblin doesn't have a ton of targets, but there's enough to make him a threat. Followed by A-o-T he's awesome.
Coliseum Manager is really a nothing card in this deck.

Everything else is solid for an Aggro deck though, and oh my the mech synergy. A-o-T, Warper, Micro, Harvest, Spider Tank, Fel Cannon, Mech Yeti, Piloted Shredder & 2x Cogmasters for good measure. So much fun!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 27, 2015, 01:38:18 am
Jeez, I thought I drafted a really aggro Hunter that would sneak in lots of wins, and it ended 0-3.

Game 1: T1 Squire from my opponent against no one drop. Squire trades with my T2 drop. No T3 drop from me, Keeper + enemy's board removed my 4 drop, Swipe killed my 5 drop, and then I had no way to get back board.
Game 2: Shielded Minibot, my Mad Bomber didn't pop shield, Seal of Champions killed my 3 drop. Also had no way to get back board, even with my Explosive Traps.
Game 3: Goes okay, although Cobra killing Leokk and another monster means the boards are even instead of in my favor. Then, Demonheart on Flame Imp completely destroys my minions. Now, there's an 8/1, 4/1, 3/2 on board against nothing. I topdeck Explosive, but to be safe I play Mad Bomber too...which hits no minions. Okay, fine, play Explosive, it'll be okay as long as he has no healing...

Darkscale Healer comes down, I take 12 to the face and die soon after.

I had 3 Explosives, 1 Freezing Trap, an Eaglehorn, 2 Animal Companions, and a large pile of 2 + 3 drops, but it never mattered because my opponents kept having slightly better early game, and my deck had no way to get it back afterwards. Only thing I was missing was 1 drops, but the only 1 drop I passed up was Webspinner for Explosive.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 27, 2015, 01:53:44 am
Hearthstone has two Squires now and both are turn 1 playable, so it is now necessary to specify when you are telling stories.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 27, 2015, 02:43:54 am
Hearthstone has two Squires now and both are turn 1 playable, so it is now necessary to specify when you are telling stories.

Lowly Squire. It could have worked out okay if I had a 3 drop to punish the turn 2 Hero Power, but I didn't.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on September 27, 2015, 04:39:09 am
Hearthstone has two Squires now and both are turn 1 playable, so it is now necessary to specify when you are telling stories.

One of them doesn't trade with a 2-drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 27, 2015, 03:43:46 pm
Hearthstone has two Squires now and both are turn 1 playable, so it is now necessary to specify when you are telling stories.

One of them doesn't trade with a 2-drop.
Argent Squire trades with Bloodfen Raptor over two turns.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 27, 2015, 04:48:47 pm
Explosive trap isn't super amazing in arena. At least in my experience. And you can't pull them you with Mad Scientist. I dont usually value it that highyl.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 28, 2015, 01:59:41 pm
But you get an extra hunter hero power!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 28, 2015, 04:56:12 pm
But you get an extra hunter hero power!

It's a consecration for 2 mana!

People don't hit your face in arena unless they are winning. And they are not winning with minions <2hp.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 28, 2015, 05:13:36 pm
But you get an extra hunter hero power!

It's a consecration for 2 mana!

People don't hit your face in arena unless they are winning. And they are not winning with minions <2hp.

They are sometimes winning with hero life less than 2 HP though!  It's a Steady Shot that procs Secretkeeper let's go!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 28, 2015, 07:06:35 pm
I still like Explosive Trap a lot. It gives you more freedom to go for face, because if they do an advantageous trade on board, the 2 damage when they do go for face can equalize board. (If you are playing mostly on curve, their minions actually are often at <= 2 health after the trade.) If they don't attack face, you get more turns to use Hero Power.

To be fair, after that arena run, I like Multishot/Explosive Shot a lot more.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on September 28, 2015, 07:23:51 pm
Man, look at you guys, actually drafting relevant class cards in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on September 28, 2015, 09:06:40 pm
Wait are we drafting Murloc Knight or Muster for Battle, I'm lost
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 28, 2015, 09:45:23 pm
Wait are we drafting Murloc Knight or Muster for Battle, I'm lost

Good thing they have different rarities. Imagine the horror of having to choose between them.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 28, 2015, 11:01:53 pm
Playing arena and shooting arrows at the target, I found out if two arrows hit in the same spot it splits one of the arrows in half. Pretty cool!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on September 29, 2015, 12:51:42 am
Playing arena and shooting arrows at the target, I found out if two arrows hit in the same spot it splits one of the arrows in half. Pretty cool!

Someone on reddit supposedly decompiled and found the code dictating the arrow logic, showing that the archer's accuracy improves if you click the target more. (Resets between each game, so you won't notice unless you click it a lot.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 29, 2015, 07:33:51 am
Playing arena and shooting arrows at the target, I found out if two arrows hit in the same spot it splits one of the arrows in half. Pretty cool!

Someone on reddit supposedly decompiled and found the code dictating the arrow logic, showing that the archer's accuracy improves if you click the target more. (Resets between each game, so you won't notice unless you click it a lot.)

I noticed that too just by shooting a lot. I hit the center way more after a while.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: pingpongsam on September 30, 2015, 02:18:38 pm
Ya'll ever get the one where the arrow sticks through from the backside of the target?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on September 30, 2015, 02:36:33 pm
Ya'll ever get the one where the arrow sticks through from the backside of the target?
Yeah. It almost looks like a bug.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Galzria on September 30, 2015, 03:57:32 pm
I played an Arena that drafted 4 Brave Archers. I only finished 5-3, but dropping all 4 and Hero Powering is awfully fun. Especially when it's avoiding double Master Jouster (both won) drops (Opponent had Coin + Pint-Sized Summoner). Pyro for 6 Mana! ..... Except so much more disgusting.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 30, 2015, 06:17:16 pm
That made me throw up. I've only drafted Brave Hunter once. I think it's way better if you get tons of them, but as a 1 of it's bad.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 30, 2015, 06:48:57 pm
If you want sickening wins, look no further.

(http://i.imgur.com/SJqLVvM.png)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 30, 2015, 06:56:12 pm
If you want sickening wins, look no further.

(http://i.imgur.com/SJqLVvM.png)

I don't actually know what that 6/9 is.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 30, 2015, 06:58:04 pm
Whenever this minion takes damage, double it's attack. It's a hunter card, so elven archer + hero power is 24 dmg.

EDIT: Important note, I got it off a webspinner that I got off Unstable Portal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on September 30, 2015, 07:50:23 pm
Whenever this minion takes damage, double it's attack. It's a hunter card, so elven archer + hero power is 24 dmg.

EDIT: Important note, I got it off a webspinner that I got off Unstable Portal.

Unstable Portal is by far my new favorite card of all time.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on September 30, 2015, 09:36:25 pm
Whenever this minion takes damage, double it's attack. It's a hunter card, so elven archer + hero power is 24 dmg.

EDIT: Important note, I got it off a webspinner that I got off Unstable Portal.

Unstable Portal is by far my new favorite card of all time.

It makes up for all the times I got wisp from it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on October 08, 2015, 05:31:33 pm
So I don't think Hearthstone wants me to play arena anymore... This is my first arena in a few weeks:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/egt6f9

I don't think the deck is terrible, but it's still Shaman.  The heroes it let me choose from: Shaman, Warlock, Warrior...  Then in the draft it only gave me nothing better than rare, and only one off the 1/10/20/30 picks...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 08, 2015, 08:00:21 pm
Don't mind me, just using my Control Warrior in arena.

(http://i.imgur.com/qrjf0PY.png)

The Shaman was at 28 health on this turn. At one point I was at 2 health, but he had no removal for my Armorsmith and I slowly climbed all the way back up. It was pretty silly.

The pretty ridiculous draft (as of now 6-2)

Upgrade
---
2x Fiery War Axe
Battle Rage
Armorsmith
Bloodfen Raptor
Faerie Dragon
Mechwarper
---
2x Bash
Shield Block
Blackwing Technician
Frothing Berzerker
Light's Champion
Raging Worgen
Scarlet Crusader
Warsong Commander
---
Death's Bite
Piloted Shredder
Spellbreaker
---
Arcanite Reaper
Brawl
Darkscale Healer
Mukla's Champion
---
Boulderfist Ogre
Shieldmaiden
---
Crush
---
Force-Tank MAX
---
Ysera
---
Deathwing
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on October 08, 2015, 11:41:48 pm
So, how did my opponent get a golden card in arena?  I killed his Chillmaw which triggered effigy, summoning a golden Antonidas (FML).  Is there just a chance that effigy summons a golden card or something?   
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 09, 2015, 01:12:48 am
Yeah, effigy is bugged like that.  Blingtron too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on October 09, 2015, 06:45:23 am
But blingtron always gave golden weapons...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 09, 2015, 09:54:10 am
I thought you could occasionally get a nongolden weapon.

Anyway, I've definitely heard about an Effigy bug similar to what you said.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 09, 2015, 11:32:39 am
Blingtron is supposed to give golden weapons. It's your blingbling. Effigy gives golden cards, but I don't think it's intentional.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 09, 2015, 12:18:41 pm
Blingtron is supposed to give golden weapons. It's your blingbling. Effigy gives golden cards, but I don't think it's intentional.
Then it's a bug that you get normal weapons, because I swear I've seen both.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 10, 2015, 11:32:15 am
So I don't think Hearthstone wants me to play arena anymore... This is my first arena in a few weeks:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/egt6f9

I don't think the deck is terrible, but it's still Shaman.  The heroes it let me choose from: Shaman, Warlock, Warrior...  Then in the draft it only gave me nothing better than rare, and only one off the 1/10/20/30 picks...

I wouldn't complain too much about mostly getting common cards. Some of the best cards in Arena are Commons. Rarity is actually weird in Arena like that where strong class Commons are viewed as better than many Rares, Epics and Legendaries. (Epics in particular are often terrible, there's lots of bad Epics that you can be offered.)

*Actually looks at draft.*

On the other hand, it looks like you were hardly offered any class cards so maybe Hearthstone doesn't want you to play Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 10, 2015, 11:52:41 am
Here's a Druid arena deck with some good Epics.
Quote
Claw
Living Roots
Argent Squire
Gadgetzan Jouster

Annoy-o-Tron
2x Loot Hoarder
Murloc Tidehunter

Mark of Nature
Mulch
Savage Roar
Acolyte of Pain
Arcane Golem
Earthen Ring Farseer
Saboteur
Shattered Sun Cleric

Swipe
Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Oasis Snapjaw
Refreshment Vendor

Kvaldir Raider
Pit Fighter
Spiteful Smith
Stranglethorn Tiger
Venture Co. Mercenary

2x Force of Nature
Frost Elemental

Ancient of Lore

Volcanic Lumberer
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 10, 2015, 12:56:44 pm
I didn't say there weren't good Epics, just that there's lots of bad ones.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 10, 2015, 06:00:44 pm
Went 12-1 with druid today. I think Druid rocks because of all the paladins. Most of them can't deal with the large minions as long as you play a good tempo game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: AHoppy on October 10, 2015, 10:15:12 pm
So I don't think Hearthstone wants me to play arena anymore... This is my first arena in a few weeks:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/egt6f9

I don't think the deck is terrible, but it's still Shaman.  The heroes it let me choose from: Shaman, Warlock, Warrior...  Then in the draft it only gave me nothing better than rare, and only one off the 1/10/20/30 picks...

I wouldn't complain too much about mostly getting common cards. Some of the best cards in Arena are Commons. Rarity is actually weird in Arena like that where strong class Commons are viewed as better than many Rares, Epics and Legendaries. (Epics in particular are often terrible, there's lots of bad Epics that you can be offered.)

*Actually looks at draft.*

On the other hand, it looks like you were hardly offered any class cards so maybe Hearthstone doesn't want you to play Arena.
Oh I know rarity isn't a good metric in arena, but still. I still playbarena to play with interesting rares/epics/legendaries I don't own. It just felt like a slap in the face :P happy I went 4-3 though
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 11, 2015, 03:52:01 am
Anyone ever seen this before? I had two Spellslingers in my arena deck, but they were listed separately in my decklist. http://imgur.com/dR6HSTP

Relatedly... I played both Spellslingers on consecutive turns in my 3rd loss. I got Shield Slam and Mass Dispel. My opponent got Unstable Portal and Shadow Word: Pain; the Unstable Portal gave him a Piloted Sky Golem.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on October 11, 2015, 06:58:32 am
Anyone ever seen this before? I had two Spellslingers in my arena deck, but they were listed separately in my decklist. http://imgur.com/dR6HSTP

Seems to happen all the time now.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 11, 2015, 08:15:50 am
This is Spellslinger rather than Arena related, but in the JAB/Trump match in yesterday's American championship Trump made the call not to hero power as a Druid at 7 health against a Tempo Mage in top deck mode.  They drew Spellslinger->Tracking->Fireball.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 11, 2015, 08:43:59 am
This is Spellslinger rather than Arena related, but in the JAB/Trump match in yesterday's North American championship Trump made the call not to hero power as a Druid at 7 health against a Tempo Mage in top deck mode.  They drew Spellslinger->Tracking->Fireball.

How much does slinger cost?  Was he able to ping+fireball for lethal?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 11, 2015, 08:44:39 am
This is Spellslinger rather than Arena related, but in the JAB/Trump match in yesterday's North American championship Trump made the call not to hero power as a Druid at 7 health against a Tempo Mage in top deck mode.  They drew Spellslinger->Tracking->Fireball.

Aldo, if you have the mana, why would you ever not hero power?  At worst, it's a free armor.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on October 11, 2015, 09:00:27 am
This is Spellslinger rather than Arena related, but in the JAB/Trump match in yesterday's North American championship Trump made the call not to hero power as a Druid at 7 health against a Tempo Mage in top deck mode.  They drew Spellslinger->Tracking->Fireball.

Aldo, if you have the mana, why would you ever not hero power?  At worst, it's a free armor.

Presumably he did not have the mana.

Slinger costs $3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 11, 2015, 09:05:14 am
Spellslinger is 3, so it was exact lethal.

https://youtu.be/uJmY0t8RN7I?list=PLMWw1WWJWiYgD31B6SYkUiEbyFMCnSju3&t=461

(7:41) Trump is frozen, so the whole point of the hero power would have been to get outside Fireball range.  The Mage has 26 health, so he makes the reasonable decision to build a board with Azure Drake and Harrison Jones.  He's just very unlucky with how it turns out.

That game and the previous one (Tempo Mage/Control Paladin) are both excellent and well worth a watch.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on October 11, 2015, 06:20:45 pm
Spellslinger is 3, so it was exact lethal.


(7:41) Trump is frozen, so the whole point of the hero power would have been to get outside Fireball range.  The Mage has 26 health, so he makes the reasonable decision to build a board with  Azure Drake and Harrison Ford Harrison Jones Tortured Cultural Reference.  He's just very unlucky with how it turns out.

That game and the previous one (Tempo Mage/Control Paladin) are both excellent and well worth a watch.
FTFY
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 12, 2015, 03:10:22 am
Spellslinger is 3, so it was exact lethal.


(7:41) Trump is frozen, so the whole point of the hero power would have been to get outside Fireball range.  The Mage has 26 health, so he makes the reasonable decision to build a board with  Azure Drake and Harrison Ford Harrison Jones Tortured Cultural Reference.  He's just very unlucky with how it turns out.

That game and the previous one (Tempo Mage/Control Paladin) are both excellent and well worth a watch.
FTFY

No, he's really into it, didn't you know? 

(Thanks.)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Titandrake on October 16, 2015, 02:39:08 am
Is it just me, or does no one know how to use Fencing Coach correctly?

Here's what I've seen literally every time I've seen Fencing Coach used against me (which is around 5 times):

Opponent plays Fencing Coach
Opponent uses Hero Power
Opponent does whatever else they were going to do their turn.
Opponent ends with at least 2 mana left over.

I'm guessing the explanation is P(knows how to maximize Fenching Coach value | actually picks Fencing Coach in arena) is really small.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 16, 2015, 09:42:02 am
Spellslinger is 3, so it was exact lethal.

(7:41) Trump is frozen, so the whole point of the hero power would have been to get outside Fireball range.  The Mage has 26 health, so he makes the reasonable decision to build a board with Azure Drake and Harrison Jones.  He's just very unlucky with how it turns out.

It wasn't exact lethal, he had 10 mana and didn't need to Fireblast thanks to a Flamewaker proc (though he hadn't even attacked with Flamewaker yet.

Refusing to trade his BGH for the Flamewaker seemed like a gross misplay to me.  With Flamewaker alive, one Frostbolt or Arcane Missiles with a face proc leaves him sweating about both Fireball and smaller burn spells for the rest of the game

If you're leaving the Flamewaker alive, then obviously you don't hero power, because it doesn't actually bring you out of range of like, literally anything.  If you're gonna go full ogre, go full ogre.

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on October 16, 2015, 10:31:33 am
Is it just me, or does no one know how to use Fencing Coach correctly?

Here's what I've seen literally every time I've seen Fencing Coach used against me (which is around 5 times):

Opponent plays Fencing Coach
Opponent uses Hero Power
Opponent does whatever else they were going to do their turn.
Opponent ends with at least 2 mana left over.

I'm guessing the explanation is P(knows how to maximize Fenching Coach value | actually picks Fencing Coach in arena) is really small.

The dream:

Turn 3: Fencing Coach
Turn 4: Murloc Knight
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 16, 2015, 11:16:36 am
So I'm on my third arena in a week, after not arena-ing for months, because I suck at arena.

I used Hearth Arena for this draft and so far I'm 1-0!

Is there a way to link my deck from HA?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 16, 2015, 12:26:43 pm
So I'm on my third arena in a week, after not arena-ing for months, because I suck at arena.

I used Hearth Arena for this draft and so far I'm 1-0!

Is there a way to link my deck from HA?

My average is 6.2, and hearth arena helps a lot for drafting.

There is a link to share, but I think just copy pasting the site address works too.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 16, 2015, 01:26:04 pm
If you go to a run you can just copy the link from the address bar. For example:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4xlq42
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 16, 2015, 01:29:38 pm
Anyone tried the Heartharena overlay (http://www.heartharena.com/overwolf)?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 16, 2015, 01:35:08 pm
Anyone tried the Heartharena overlay (http://www.heartharena.com/overwolf)?

They had basically said they were unlikely to do this, and I was sad, so... Now I am very excited.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 16, 2015, 05:33:42 pm
If you go to a run you can just copy the link from the address bar. For example:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4xlq42

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/gp37s8
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 16, 2015, 05:58:12 pm
If you go to a run you can just copy the link from the address bar. For example:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4xlq42

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/gp37s8

And I went 1-3.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 16, 2015, 10:50:38 pm
If you go to a run you can just copy the link from the address bar. For example:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4xlq42

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/gp37s8

And I went 1-3.

At first glance it looks very weak. Firstly Priest isn't that great in arena. Secondly you don't have enough early game drops. I'm talking about decent 3/2 or 2/3 minions. Micro Machine is ok if you play it before you opponent plays anything, or if he plays a 3/2, but otherwise not a good enough 2 drop. Northshire I consider to not be a 1 drop, as it impacts almost nothing. Circle of Healing is very weak in arena. You only have three 4 drops, one of which is weak. Granted if you make it to the late game this deck kicks ass. 3 temple enforcers!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 17, 2015, 05:55:54 am
It was definitely weak.  I followed the advice on 29 picks, too.

Dunno, I suck at arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 17, 2015, 01:51:49 pm
Anyone ever seen this before? I had two Spellslingers in my arena deck, but they were listed separately in my decklist. http://imgur.com/dR6HSTP

Relatedly... I played both Spellslingers on consecutive turns in my 3rd loss. I got Shield Slam and Mass Dispel. My opponent got Unstable Portal and Shadow Word: Pain; the Unstable Portal gave him a Piloted Sky Golem.

Yeah, it's some new visual bug. Happened with me and King's Elekk.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 17, 2015, 02:47:05 pm
It was definitely weak.  I followed the advice on 29 picks, too.

Dunno, I suck at arena.

It's possible you misplayed. But I did go over you choices. There are a few where I disagree with Heartharena, but you were offered bad cards for a lot of the draft. So don't be too hard on yourself :P But remeber with Priest, muligan hard for early drops. as soon as you're behind you'll probably lose, so be sure to always be ahead on board till the late game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 17, 2015, 03:22:59 pm
About to go 1-3 because I didn't take a single turn 3 playable 3 drop.

Friends don't let friends skip 3 drops
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 17, 2015, 03:38:22 pm
Turn 7 he goes Murloc Knight, inspiring a Murloc Knight

Turn 8 he goes Murloc Knight, inspiring a Murloc Knight

Then my knife juggler fails a 75% throw.

Like I just can't even deal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 18, 2015, 04:05:10 am
Just your typical Mage deck at 9-2: http://i.imgur.com/INV0ki0.jpg
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 18, 2015, 02:32:00 pm
So I guess she unstable portal'ed the knight, and the knight made everything else? But, the (creepy music plays) the arrangement is wrong..
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 19, 2015, 03:13:24 pm
Is this a good draft?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z0556s
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 19, 2015, 03:17:18 pm
I guess.. you might get run over, though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 19, 2015, 03:57:53 pm
Is this a good draft?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z0556s

It's okay. Your early game is mediocre, but you can always get lucky on the mulligans. You're relying a lot on drawing your board clear or removal and getting control back around turns 5-7 then winning with your big dudes.

It's a tough deck to play because you don't have really strong early game or convincing late game so you kinda need to guess a bit on whether you think you should be playing for an aggressive win when you pull a tempo advantage or if you should be trying to out control your opponents and going late game. These are the types of decks I struggle with a lot. I'd much rather play something really aggressive or with really strong late game so the choices are easier.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 19, 2015, 04:30:43 pm
Is this a good draft?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z0556s

It's okay. Your early game is mediocre, but you can always get lucky on the mulligans. You're relying a lot on drawing your board clear or removal and getting control back around turns 5-7 then winning with your big dudes.

It's a tough deck to play because you don't have really strong early game or convincing late game so you kinda need to guess a bit on whether you think you should be playing for an aggressive win when you pull a tempo advantage or if you should be trying to out control your opponents and going late game. These are the types of decks I struggle with a lot. I'd much rather play something really aggressive or with really strong late game so the choices are easier.

1-1 so far.  Run over by a shaman who took control of the board early and just pummeled me.

Beat a Warlock who couldn't keep anything on the board (made it to T6 with a coin to Flamestrike his board, too).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 19, 2015, 05:12:42 pm
Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 19, 2015, 05:16:02 pm
Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVLyB0Yc6I
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 19, 2015, 05:29:47 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 19, 2015, 06:12:17 pm
Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?

Yeah, sometimes there isnt much you can do. But also if you know it's a certain kind of trap, you can just avoid triggering them for a bit. If you know there is an explosive trap or a bear trap out, wait until you can deal with it the turn you trigger it. But if it's a situation where your hand was forced, maybe there was nothing you could do. It's not a combo really since Snake Trap is an epic, and very very rarely in any arena deck.

It's similar to playing around BGH in arena. You just don't, because it's so rare.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 19, 2015, 06:14:55 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 19, 2015, 06:17:51 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 19, 2015, 06:20:53 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 19, 2015, 06:37:37 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.

I followed HA on 29/30 of picks on each of those runs. Ironically, my constructed deck is probably better for arena than my arena decks ever are, because I play Face Hunter and am playing a variant with no mana costs over 4.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 19, 2015, 07:54:41 pm
Don't you love Face Hunter? :)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 19, 2015, 08:03:25 pm
My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.

I followed HA on 29/30 of picks on each of those runs. Ironically, my constructed deck is probably better for arena than my arena decks ever are, because I play Face Hunter and am playing a variant with no mana costs over 4.

I'm not sure that's ironic. Arena decks are bad constructed decks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 19, 2015, 08:10:19 pm
Ironic in that most decks I see in constructed are control,  which wouldn't fly in arena well due to reliability of getting all the cards you need.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 19, 2015, 08:11:02 pm
Yeah, chairs is correct.  Most arena decks are bad -constructed control- decks.  Aggro is usually more challenging to build.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 20, 2015, 01:02:59 am
So I guess she unstable portal'ed the knight, and the knight made everything else? But, the (creepy music plays) the arrangement is wrong..
She played a Murloc Knight, which summoned a Spiritwalker and then another Murloc Knight and then died.

Most arena decks are bad -constructed control- decks.
I think it's more accurate to describe them as tempo decks. Control decks usually don't have much board presence, care more about card advantage than tempo, and focus a lot on surviving, which is the opposite of most good arena decks in my experience.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2015, 03:04:52 am
Don't you love Face Hunter? :)

I do, which is why I play mostly Hunter in Arena! Well at least as much as I'm allowed to. Hunter is the best class for drafting aggro, and it's the class I'm best at. (6.11 average wins)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 20, 2015, 11:21:02 am

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2015, 11:33:22 am

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 20, 2015, 11:41:19 am

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
Light's Justice, Jouster, and Squire are disappointments to add to your deck.  I forgot Webspinner and Avenge, but those are class specific and don't bolster the count all that much.

You should mulligan Abusive Sarge even against classes without a ping hero power.  He's not a one drop that's good enough to slow down your pursuit of the perfect 2/3/4 opening hand curve.  Unlike Worgen Infiltrator, he can't camp if your opponet plays a 2 mana 2/1, he gets forced to trade down.

Any other 2/1 in your deck is a 2/1 you didn't want in your deck.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on October 20, 2015, 12:02:58 pm
Going first, I would keep everything whenever I drew a 1/2/3 opening, even if the 1-drop was abusive sergeant.
 
There's no question in my mind that going first in arena:
abusive, 2-drop, 3-drop, followed by whatever you've drawn in that time, (if you've not drawn a 3 or a 4 or even a 2+hp by then you've either gotten supremely unlucky or have a janky curve)
is better than
nothing, 2-drop, 3-drop, 4-drop
90% of the time, even against classes with a ping. 
The tempo is just so strong.

But yeah unless I've drawn the 2 and the 3 already I would perhaps mulligan the sergeant.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2015, 12:03:50 pm

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
Light's Justice, Jouster, and Squire are disappointments to add to your deck.  I forgot Webspinner and Avenge, but those are class specific and don't bolster the count all that much.

You should mulligan Abusive Sarge even against classes without a ping hero power.  He's not a one drop that's good enough to slow down your pursuit of the perfect 2/3/4 opening hand curve.  Unlike Worgen Infiltrator, he can't camp if your opponet plays a 2 mana 2/1, he gets forced to trade down.

Any other 2/1 in your deck is a 2/1 you didn't want in your deck.

Argent Squire is a 1-drop I'd happily add to my deck. It takes two actions of your opponent to remove it, which is pretty solid in my books. Light's Justice is also never something I'm sad to add to my deck. A solid average card. Jouster is more deck dependent, but if I think I have a deck that'll win those Jousts a Jouster is great (or just mediocre if I don't have a high curve).

You seem to play differently from me. I chase the 1-2-3 dream over the 2-3-4 dream in my opening hand. I'd never toss a playable 1 or 2 drop in my opener (or a 3 drop if I had a 2 drop), but I would usually ditch a 4 drop in hopes of finding a 1 drop and count on drawing into a 4 drop in the turns between now and then. It sounds like you would hold your 4 drop if you drew a 2-3-4 opening hand and you'd usually toss your 1 drops unless it was one of the ones you mentioned above?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 20, 2015, 12:14:00 pm
Yeah, holding a 4 drop is really good.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 20, 2015, 12:53:28 pm
Yeah, holding a 4 drop is really good.
Without a perfect 2-3-4 or 1-2-3 curve before the mulligan, I still like to hold a 4-drop if I'm going second if it's a quality 4-drop.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 20, 2015, 01:03:43 pm
I'd only do that if I had a 2 drop (so I'm planning to Pass turn 1/2 drop turn 2/Coin + 4 drop turn 3). Hearthstone mulliganing is something it turns out I've thought about a lot, but never put into words.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 20, 2015, 02:09:14 pm
For what it's worth, here's a table I just made of the probability of drawing into an n-drop by any given turn, depending on the number you have in your deck:

(http://i.imgur.com/VUFcVAT.png)

For example: If you have five 4-drops in your deck as player 1, and none in your opening hand, then you have a 58% chance of drawing at least one by turn 4.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 20, 2015, 09:39:45 pm
In unrelated news, I've now gotten to choose between Mage, Paladin, and Druid for three straight drafts. The Arena gods must be smiling down on me.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2015, 11:14:10 pm
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/9fy56q

I went 3-3, and I feel okay about it. I was sure I'd lost against the second Paladin. The Priest loss really hurt, because it was like "is he really just consistently drawing anti-me bullshit?".

I misplayed a little in the mage loss, I think, but I'm not sure they were big enough misplays to have made the difference.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 21, 2015, 11:44:22 am
Innervate, Stonetusk Boar, Wild Growth, Dancing Swords, holy card disadvntage batman!

You had CA to negate it, though, so long as you drew it in the same hands.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 21, 2015, 01:14:48 pm
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/9fy56q

I went 3-3, and I feel okay about it. I was sure I'd lost against the second Paladin. The Priest loss really hurt, because it was like "is he really just consistently drawing anti-me bullshit?".

I misplayed a little in the mage loss, I think, but I'm not sure they were big enough misplays to have made the difference.

Silent Knight is rated higher than Acidic Swamp Ooze?  What am I missing about that card?  I've come round on Argent Horserider, but I still don't see the value of the 3 mana Shielded Minibot.  Hmm, perhaps it's something to do with it being a Shielded Minibot with first choice of when to pop the shield, even if it is 3 mana.

I don't feel Stonetusk Boar over Oasis Snapjaw.  1-drops can be great, but the best you can hope for with Stonetusk is to trade into your opponent's 1-drop, and that's not going to happen super often.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 21, 2015, 01:21:18 pm
Boar over Snapjaw is awful.  AWDCTA is a scrub.  Swamp ooze is better than Silent Knight too.  He was fanboying on Silent Knight before it came out, it's still average.  It's better than Bloodfen Raptor though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 21, 2015, 02:15:25 pm
Boar over Snapjaw is awful.  AWDCTA is a scrub.  Swamp ooze is better than Silent Knight too.  He was fanboying on Silent Knight before it came out, it's still average.  It's better than Bloodfen Raptor though.

Surely Swamp Ooze has got to be better than Silent Knight. Oasis over Boar too. Boar is mostly worse than Moonfire.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on October 21, 2015, 02:16:43 pm
In ADWCTA's defence, Heartharena did recommend Snapjaw over Boar.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 21, 2015, 02:24:54 pm
In ADWCTA's defence, Heartharena did recommend Snapjaw over Boar.

Chairs you're a scrub :(
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 21, 2015, 08:24:49 pm
In ADWCTA's defence, Heartharena did recommend Snapjaw over Boar.

Chairs you're a scrub :(

Man I was freaking out because I didn't even have many 2-drops at that point.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 21, 2015, 09:39:34 pm
In ADWCTA's defence, Heartharena did recommend Snapjaw over Boar.

Chairs you're a scrub :(

Man I was freaking out because I didn't even have many 2-drops at that point.

But boar doesn't count as a 1 drop. It's not the mana cost that matters, it's if it can kill anything else. The same goes for 1mana 1/2's. 2/1's are ok, but mostly clockwork gnome because it's gives a spare part on death.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Drab Emordnilap on October 22, 2015, 03:40:49 am
But boar doesn't count as a 1 drop. It's not the mana cost that matters, it's if it can kill anything else. The same goes for 1mana 1/2's. 2/1's are ok, but mostly clockwork gnome because it's gives a spare part on death.

1 power 1 drops are better than they used to be, specifically because they trade with 1 mana 2/1s. Not "good", but better.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 25, 2015, 05:44:33 am
Just killed someone with Malygos + Hellfire + Bane of Doom for 19 damage and exact lethal.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 25, 2015, 10:38:19 am
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 25, 2015, 11:01:12 am
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.
You still have to not lose by Turn 8.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 25, 2015, 01:00:01 pm
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.
You still have to not lose by Turn 8.

Coin him out on Turn 7.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 25, 2015, 02:47:14 pm
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.
You still have to not lose by Turn 8.

Coin him out on Turn 7.

It's not hard to survive until turn 8. TGT slowed arena considerably. All you need is to curve out with not the worst 2/3/4 drops on the planet, and even then sometimes your opponent misses their curve, making it easy to keep up.

In arena curving out is so important that keeping 4 drops is only ok if you have tons of 2's and will draw into them. But chances are keeping a 4 drop isn't a good idea. I'd rather for 2/3/3 than nothing/2/4 or nothing/nothing/4.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 25, 2015, 02:59:15 pm
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.
You still have to not lose by Turn 8.

Coin him out on Turn 7.

It's not hard to survive until turn 8. TGT slowed arena considerably. All you need is to curve out with not the worst 2/3/4 drops on the planet, and even then sometimes your opponent misses their curve, making it easy to keep up.

In arena curving out is so important that keeping 4 drops is only ok if you have tons of 2's and will draw into them. But chances are keeping a 4 drop isn't a good idea. I'd rather for 2/3/3 than nothing/2/4 or nothing/nothing/4.

Ah yeah Arena has gotten slower I guess. I haven't had much time to play Hearthstone these days.

That "scrub" game which will not be named in this thread still gets some playtime for me though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 25, 2015, 03:05:12 pm
Which game is the scrub game?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Co0kieL0rd on October 25, 2015, 08:52:32 pm
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.

You might have faced serious trouble with that strategy against this deck: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/j018f2

I drafted this a week ago and managed to get 12 wins with it and I'm very happy about that. In case anybody wonders what it takes to get 12 wins - exclusively powerful cards, a perfect mana curve, synergies galore and a LOT of removal spells.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 25, 2015, 09:08:26 pm
If you guys are wondering how to do well in arena, I figured it out. Draft Tirion Fordring. You play him turn 8. It's almost impossible to lose unless they have polymorph.

You might have faced serious trouble with that strategy against this deck: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/j018f2

I drafted this a week ago and managed to get 12 wins with it and I'm very happy about that. In case anybody wonders what it takes to get 12 wins - exclusively powerful cards, a perfect mana curve, synergies galore and a LOT of removal spells.

Well that deck is crazy strong. Polymorph is really good, although my opinion of fireball has gone down a little. It's still amazing, but sometimes it just sits on my hand useless.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on October 26, 2015, 03:58:39 am
Had an interesting series of events happen earlier today: http://imgur.com/a/A9MYJ

I'm pretty happy with my choice of play, and it ended up working out, but... was it actually right? I went for the super-greedy Grim Patron setup instead of just using Grommash to clear the Sunwalker because I was way down in cards and figured I would need a lot of value from my hand to win the game, and Patron and Revenge are both cards which could end up dead. The Grommash play is also a lot weaker to removal and buffs; if he has something like an Argent Commander or a Blessing of Kings I'd be totally screwed. The Patron setup is also potentially disastrous too, though, if he plays a taunt or kills my Worgen somehow... not sure which choice was better on average. I did end up winning the game though.

Also yeah, this deck is funny.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 26, 2015, 01:35:04 pm
Drafted Miracle Rogue! 2 Gadgetzans! 10 Spells! It's been pretty fun. No one prioritizes killing the Gadgetzan because they seem to think you must be out of spells by now:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/g4qz9a

Runs not over yet, but I feel like I might not make it much further.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 26, 2015, 01:36:51 pm
Silly Heartharena thinks you're playing Temporogue.

I wish it was more commonly the case that Hearthstone drafting had to do with synergy.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 26, 2015, 02:17:44 pm
Yeah, it's unfortunate that you can rarely rely on having synergies like this. I got pretty lucky to get offered the second Auctioneer, which basically took the deck to the next level.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 27, 2015, 12:46:27 pm
Ended up going 10 wins with it. Pretty good deck. People with better Rogue decks turned out to be its downfall. Could have maybe gone 12 with it if I'd been a little bit better/luckier.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 28, 2015, 03:48:23 pm
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Opened a golden Dreadclaw or whatever his name is -- the 4/2 hunter legendary that whirlwinds everyone else each turn.

Should I dust it for something else?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 28, 2015, 04:22:08 pm
I feel like that's a card that'll be really good at some point, but currently has no use. I wouldn't dust it, but would probably just do some deck experimenting to see if it's usable.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 28, 2015, 04:31:37 pm
I feel like that's a card that'll be really good at some point, but currently has no use. I wouldn't dust it, but would probably just do some deck experimenting to see if it's usable.

Some comments on the card (Dreadscale) is that it fits into a Control Hunter deck, where it replaces part of your Wild Pyro combo cards -- maybe reducing your Wild Pyro count to 1.

It can be a single target removal with Hunter's Mark, it's a Whirlwind, it's a few things.  I don't have Ghazilla or Acidmaw, though, so not sure if I can really build the deck it needs.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 28, 2015, 04:39:23 pm
Dreadmaw seems really good to me.  I keep telling myself maybe no one plays it because they don't want to craft it.

It almost answers muster, that's gotta be good right?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 28, 2015, 04:51:54 pm
Yeah I think the only it isn't used is because it's a hunter card. But perhaps someday it'll be good. I'd keep it, but then again I dont need much dust. Unless you need a really good card now, keep it.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 28, 2015, 04:59:44 pm
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 28, 2015, 05:05:14 pm
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.

Oof, your early game is weak.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 28, 2015, 05:32:03 pm
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.

Oof, your early game is weak.

Yeah.  A good amount of removal, but I was always behind.  Draft didn't give me much to work with.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 28, 2015, 06:48:57 pm
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.

Oof, your early game is weak.

Yeah.  A good amount of removal, but I was always behind.  Draft didn't give me much to work with.

There isn't much removal either. Lightning Bolt is good, but Earth Shock and Frost Shock are not removal. Earth Shock removes a few minion because of the silence, or if you get lucky with a spell dmg totem. Forked lightning isn't that great because of the overload, but can clear two things, again if you get lucky with what your opponent plays. Also not enough 3 drops to compensate for the lack of 2 drops.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 29, 2015, 05:18:44 am
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.

Oof, your early game is weak.

Yeah.  A good amount of removal, but I was always behind.  Draft didn't give me much to work with.

There isn't much removal either. Lightning Bolt is good, but Earth Shock and Frost Shock are not removal. Earth Shock removes a few minion because of the silence, or if you get lucky with a spell dmg totem. Forked lightning isn't that great because of the overload, but can clear two things, again if you get lucky with what your opponent plays. Also not enough 3 drops to compensate for the lack of 2 drops.

I had two Storms, which I thought was good.  I also had Lightning Bolt, Crackle, and Hex.  I wasn't counting the Shocks.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 29, 2015, 07:32:57 am
A nice 0-3 here: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/y5n90i

Also, I'm not surprised that deck didnt go far. Not enough early game in a class that really needs to curve out well to win games. Of course your late game is amazing.

Oof, your early game is weak.

Yeah.  A good amount of removal, but I was always behind.  Draft didn't give me much to work with.

There isn't much removal either. Lightning Bolt is good, but Earth Shock and Frost Shock are not removal. Earth Shock removes a few minion because of the silence, or if you get lucky with a spell dmg totem. Forked lightning isn't that great because of the overload, but can clear two things, again if you get lucky with what your opponent plays. Also not enough 3 drops to compensate for the lack of 2 drops.

I had two Storms, which I thought was good.  I also had Lightning Bolt, Crackle, and Hex.  I wasn't counting the Shocks.

Storm is good, but only if you're ahead. The overload slows you down, and if you have no board, then they just more minions down and you have a weak next turn.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 29, 2015, 11:03:01 am
Overload is my least favorite mechanic in this game.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 29, 2015, 11:03:59 am
Overload is my least favorite mechanic in this game.

And it sucks extra in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 29, 2015, 11:19:49 am
In magic was Echo, where you played a creature for its battlecry, and then you chose whether to pay another cost the next turn to actually keep the creature and use it to fight.  This shared the unique tempo aspect of overload, but presented players with interesting choices that gave good players an opportunity to make better choices.

Hearthstone design isn't really about that.  Hearthstone design is more about, screw Shamans, they don't need to have nice things.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 29, 2015, 11:40:49 am
In magic was Echo, where you played a creature for its battlecry, and then you chose whether to pay another cost the next turn to actually keep the creature and use it to fight.  This shared the unique tempo aspect of overload, but presented players with interesting choices that gave good players an opportunity to make better choices.

Hearthstone design isn't really about that.  Hearthstone design is more about, screw Shamans, they don't need to have nice things.

Yeah, Echo was neat.

I'm really enjoying Shaman right now but my decklist doesn't include much from Shaman, maybe 6 cards. 2 x fire elemental, 2 x hex, 2 x reincarnate.  The rest is fun with deathrattle.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on October 29, 2015, 11:53:02 am
In magic was Echo, where you played a creature for its battlecry, and then you chose whether to pay another cost the next turn to actually keep the creature and use it to fight.  This shared the unique tempo aspect of overload, but presented players with interesting choices that gave good players an opportunity to make better choices.

Hearthstone design isn't really about that.  Hearthstone design is more about, screw Shamans, they don't need to have nice things.

Yeah, Echo was neat.

I'm really enjoying Shaman right now but my decklist doesn't include much from Shaman, maybe 6 cards. 2 x fire elemental, 2 x hex, 2 x reincarnate.  The rest is fun with deathrattle.

If you can power through Blackrock, add Lava Shock, and it makes Overload cards rather better.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 29, 2015, 12:24:01 pm
In magic was Echo, where you played a creature for its battlecry, and then you chose whether to pay another cost the next turn to actually keep the creature and use it to fight.  This shared the unique tempo aspect of overload, but presented players with interesting choices that gave good players an opportunity to make better choices.

Hearthstone design isn't really about that.  Hearthstone design is more about, screw Shamans, they don't need to have nice things.

Yeah, Echo was neat.

I'm really enjoying Shaman right now but my decklist doesn't include much from Shaman, maybe 6 cards. 2 x fire elemental, 2 x hex, 2 x reincarnate.  The rest is fun with deathrattle.

If you can power through Blackrock, add Lava Shock, and it makes Overload cards rather better.

I'll start a new thread to discuss when I have a moment to snag my decklist, but overload cards aren't really relevant to the Deathrattle abuse I'm doing currently.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 29, 2015, 02:48:10 pm
You need create a lot of tempo with overload for it to be worth it. Elemental destruction is the right way to do overload, because it does a lot for cheap on one turn. The problem is that it clears the board, so it's very conditional. Something like boulder fist for 1 mana, overload 10 might work. But ramp just beats it so much. You get a big creature this turn and your cost is an extra card, not an extra turn.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 29, 2015, 02:54:05 pm
Elemental destruction is cold stone unplayable so I'm not sure how you can call it "the right way to do overload"
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on October 29, 2015, 03:06:24 pm
Elemental destruction is cold stone unplayable so I'm not sure how you can call it "the right way to do overload"

I don't think it's that bad. It's bad in a lot of situations, but at least it has an enormous effect which sometimes is exactly what you need and that alone is a reason to pick it over other epics that are kind of meh.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 29, 2015, 04:01:21 pm
Elemental destruction is cold stone unplayable so I'm not sure how you can call it "the right way to do overload"

I don't think it's that bad. It's bad in a lot of situations, but at least it has an enormous effect which sometimes is exactly what you need and that alone is a reason to pick it over other epics that are kind of meh.
Oh woops, forgot I was in the arena discussion thread.

Yeah, it's quite likely serviceable in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 30, 2015, 12:36:51 am
Elemental destruction is cold stone unplayable so I'm not sure how you can call it "the right way to do overload"

I don't think it's that bad. It's bad in a lot of situations, but at least it has an enormous effect which sometimes is exactly what you need and that alone is a reason to pick it over other epics that are kind of meh.
Oh woops, forgot I was in the arena discussion thread.

Yeah, it's quite likely serviceable in Arena.

It's alright. But If the 5 overload were on a minion it would be way stronger than on a board clear. Generally you don't play board clears on turn 3. But if you have the huge overload on a minion it would be like a weaker ramp. Huge minion, no next turn, but only used 1 card as opposed to Innervate which require you to match it with a bigger mana cost card.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on October 30, 2015, 09:16:20 am
A 5 overload huge minion would just get executed or BGH'ed, though, and I'm pretty sure Elemental Destruction was a failed attempt to make a constructed card (with the way arena has been neglected, everything should be considered intended for constructed, really)
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on October 30, 2015, 10:25:14 am
A 5 overload huge minion would just get executed or BGH'ed, though, and I'm pretty sure Elemental Destruction was a failed attempt to make a constructed card (with the way arena has been neglected, everything should be considered intended for constructed, really)

It would be bgh'd if it had 7 attack. I still think huge overload effects are better than small and medium overload effects.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: markusin on October 30, 2015, 10:55:42 am
A 5 overload huge minion would just get executed or BGH'ed, though, and I'm pretty sure Elemental Destruction was a failed attempt to make a constructed card (with the way arena has been neglected, everything should be considered intended for constructed, really)

It would be bgh'd if it had 7 attack. I still think huge overload effects are better than small and medium overload effects.
Alternatively it could just summon two mid-sized minions like Feral Spirit (forgot the name of the card that gives two 2/3 taunt wolves).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 30, 2015, 10:56:33 am
A 5 overload huge minion would just get executed or BGH'ed, though, and I'm pretty sure Elemental Destruction was a failed attempt to make a constructed card (with the way arena has been neglected, everything should be considered intended for constructed, really)

It would be bgh'd if it had 7 attack. I still think huge overload effects are better than small and medium overload effects.
Alternatively it could just summon two mid-sized minions like Feral Spirit (forgot the name of the card that gives two 2/3 taunt wolves).

Something like 2 Yetis for 3, overload 5?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 30, 2015, 12:55:02 pm
This feels terrible: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/la08o3

I opted for one or two audibles as compared to Heartharena's picks, but mostly followed them.  I just don't see enough to win games here.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 30, 2015, 01:04:30 pm
This feels terrible: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/la08o3

I opted for one or two audibles as compared to Heartharena's picks, but mostly followed them.  I just don't see enough to win games here.

That looks okay to me. It's too bad you weren't offered Unleash as that would make this deck super good, but this looks pretty playable. I'd expect to go 4-5 wins with it. You've got really good potential to curve out every game, and playing BGH in Arena is super fun; there's always something to hit and it's always a huge turnaround.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on October 30, 2015, 01:32:21 pm
That looks okay to me. It's too bad you weren't offered Unleash as that would make this deck super good, but this looks pretty playable. I'd expect to go 4-5 wins with it. You've got really good potential to curve out every game, and playing BGH in Arena is super fun; there's always something to hit and it's always a huge turnaround.
Yeah this is one of those decks that averages 4 or 5, but can sometimes get 8 just by random chance.  Or go 0-3, because luck is luck.

I drafted the most crazy good paladin arena deck yesterday.  It was like guaranteed 10 wins plus.  I had 4 murloc knights.  And much other mcguffins (including BGH, for relevance).

It went 5-3.
1 loss to a topdecked turn 10 deathwing (I had an insurmountable board at this point, threatening lethal, and 6 cards in hand, but no taunt ((and no BGH, obvs) despite having only played 2 of I think 5 taunt creatures)).
1 loss to a turn 3 mana elemental, which went down to 1 health and every turn was buffed by at least 2 then reduced to 1 health again.  It ended up a 7-1, behind 2 feral spirits.  I drew nothing.
I can't remember what the other one was, I think it may have been just me misplaying, I was fairly annoyed at this point.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 30, 2015, 01:51:01 pm
I love drafting Deathwing just for the purpose of winning games you don't deserve to win at all. Stupidly good Arena card.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 30, 2015, 03:40:37 pm
This feels terrible: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/la08o3

I opted for one or two audibles as compared to Heartharena's picks, but mostly followed them.  I just don't see enough to win games here.

That looks okay to me. It's too bad you weren't offered Unleash as that would make this deck super good, but this looks pretty playable. I'd expect to go 4-5 wins with it. You've got really good potential to curve out every game, and playing BGH in Arena is super fun; there's always something to hit and it's always a huge turnaround.

1-3.  Opened another Dreadscale, though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on October 30, 2015, 04:43:01 pm
500 dust?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on October 30, 2015, 05:12:45 pm
500 dust?

Unless I dust the golden one.  Then it's a free legendary.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: chairs on October 30, 2015, 05:15:02 pm
Dreadscale's been pretty fun for me when I get it in a tavern brawl.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on November 01, 2015, 05:27:21 pm
http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/5vjs2j

Not so bad on this one so far.

Just pulled out a win down at 9 life.  My board was empty against 4 minions...flamestrike to clear.  I was able to go back and forth with him to keep clearing, including another 4 minion flamestrike.

He played a spell slinger that gave me bane of doom which gave me the Azzinoth guy.  He didn't have any answers and it was a swing in two turns.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on November 07, 2015, 04:08:54 pm
I feel like this should be good: http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0319hg

2x blizzard, 2x flamestrike, 2x fireball, a polymorph, a frostbolt...
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 08, 2015, 11:53:34 am
At 9-2 and am facing a warrior. Am I happy or scared?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Awaclus on November 08, 2015, 11:54:24 am
At 9-2 and am facing a warrior. Am I happy or scared?

Yes.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 08, 2015, 12:04:18 pm
At 9-2 and am facing a warrior. Am I happy or scared?

Yes.

Turns out that was the right answer. Still, don't pick warrior though.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ycz6 on November 12, 2015, 03:52:36 pm
Played one game of arena today. Didn't see any new cards, but this did happen: http://imgur.com/2XFAGY6

He could've two-turn killed me at basically any point, but instead chose to wait it out while he lost card advantage and eventually started using the Shade to clear my minions at 22 attack. I drew Mind Control two turns later.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on November 12, 2015, 04:01:26 pm
How did the shade get uneven attack to health ratio?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: qmech on November 12, 2015, 05:11:06 pm
How did the shade get uneven attack to health ratio?

Avenge?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 12, 2015, 10:25:04 pm
How did the shade get uneven attack to health ratio?

Avenge?
Swordsmith? Spare Part? Honestly, it's probably Avenge.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 12, 2015, 10:38:58 pm
There's new things the heros say when entering battle, I think when you face the same class.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Co0kieL0rd on November 13, 2015, 05:53:54 am
There's new things the heros say when entering battle, I think when you face the same class.

Yes, it's on encounters with with the same class. The Innkeeper also has new things to say when you start the game. I think these are nice little additions.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on November 13, 2015, 07:55:33 am
Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on November 13, 2015, 09:02:24 am
Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 13, 2015, 10:50:00 am
Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Haddock on November 13, 2015, 11:10:03 am
It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.
Yeah I'd say even in arena it's pretty questionable.  I lost an arena game yesterday as a rogue despite playing a 6/7 shado-pan on turn 4.  (Still not really sure how, I had a bad start but so many good cards one after the other from like turn 3.  He just kept pulling paladin bull, I was about one turn short of stabilising. I'm still salty.)  So yeah if a 4-mana Boulderfist sometimes isn't fast enough, I don't see how a 6-mana yeti-minus is gonna be reliable!
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on November 13, 2015, 02:44:25 pm
Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.

I don't know man, he played it T5 with coin, then proceeded to always play a minion that was 1/1 stronger than it cost.  I had a lot of trouble continually trying to remove minions to keep board control, which I eventually lost.

If you play 4-6 minions over T6-8, it's tough.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: KingZog3 on November 13, 2015, 04:28:20 pm
Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.

I don't know man, he played it T5 with coin, then proceeded to always play a minion that was 1/1 stronger than it cost.  I had a lot of trouble continually trying to remove minions to keep board control, which I eventually lost.

If you play 4-6 minions over T6-8, it's tough.

Shaman is a class that needs to be on board early, and then stay there. Their AoE is rare or epic, and still not great. Overload makes them lose tempo on turns after they play strong cards. So if the game was even until T5 when he played mistcaller, then he'll probably do pretty well. But if you're behind, you'll just get out tempoed. 1 big minion a turn can't kill lots of small minions. And all it takes is 1 turn to do enough dmg that you can't come back from the value mistcaller gives you.

Heartharena rates it as 76. That's rated as "good", and I'd agree. It's good, but it's not amazing. Hogger is rated better, so is Toshley, and most legendaries that are considered good in arena are higher than Mistcaller.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: ashersky on November 14, 2015, 12:43:09 pm
My best arena run ever, got 10 wins.  375 gold is cray-cray!

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4a92i7

Didn't feel like a very good draft at all, but worked out.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on November 14, 2015, 10:52:43 pm
Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on November 14, 2015, 11:15:27 pm
Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
Did you read the response? https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sjizj/in_response_to_the_farewell_post/
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 15, 2015, 04:58:11 am
The two parties couldn't come to an agreement.  There's no good guys or bad guys.  Nothing illegal happened.

All bargaining should have some chance of resulting in a no-deal.  Otherwise you're not bargaining hard enough.  Happens.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on November 15, 2015, 06:25:17 am
Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
Did you read the response? https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sjizj/in_response_to_the_farewell_post/

Yeah, it's hard to sift through all the he said/she said.  Either way it stinks.  I'm still going to be following ADWCTA and Merps.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 15, 2015, 03:01:43 pm
I think if the programmer didn't at least offer to sell equity to merps and awdcta at a reasonable price, then he is kind of in the wrong.  Equity isn't priceless, and even if the two overstated the work they actually put in on the product, being a lead spokesperson/image management for the product is enough involvement to justify an offer of equity.

I suspect merps and awdcta might have wanted equity for free or as a term of the contract, though, which is greedy.  Making the program pick cards better is the fun part.  And they took no risks at all. 

Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: blueblimp on November 15, 2015, 03:51:00 pm
As you say it was simply a disagreement over business, and that's okay all around until ADWCTA took it to reddit and made it a personal mission to destroy Heartharena ("I hope that streamers, organizations and other expert Arena players alike, including Cloud9, will stand with us on this, and not help the programmer to continue to exploit our work product"). That's unprofessional and simply nasty. He got paid what he was promised, and that should be the end of it.

ADWCTA's post is also filled with many obvious distortions intended to exaggerate his importance and minimize the importance of the owner. Read between the lines, and read the response, and it's clear: the owner created Heartharena long before ADWCTA became involved, does all the programming, all the design, works full-time on the project, and puts his money into all the costs. That's not just "the programmer", that's the everything. Somebody with those skills could easily be making six figures salary if they wanted. Meanwhile, infinite arena players and wannabe Hearthstone pros are a dime a dozen. The fact that ADWCTA even thinks he+merps deserve 30% of Heartharena just shows how out of touch he is with reality.

If anything, giving ADWCTA's bragging that he has a "fair share of contacts from the business side", it sounds more like he's trying to exploit the owner by demanding an excessive share than the other way around. He took it on originally as a fun hobby, and then got greedy when he saw there was actually money to be made.

I'm not saying the owner is 100% in the right, if indeed he never offered even a small amount of equity. I'm not an expert on these things but it seems like he would have been better off trying to retain ADWCTA+merps by offering a small amount of equity rather than risking the consequences of a split. But the bet he's making is that either he can keep the algorithm updated himself or contract another strong arena player who can express intuition using numbers, this time hopefully without an overinflated ego. I wouldn't bet against that.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 15, 2015, 06:21:48 pm
On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: werothegreat on November 15, 2015, 07:43:20 pm
On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.

I'm guessing you mean the Monkey and not HoggerLite?
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: popsofctown on November 15, 2015, 08:35:28 pm
On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.

I'm guessing you mean the Monkey and not HoggerLite?
They are both great, but I think HoggerLite is more helpful.
Title: Re: Arena General Discussion
Post by: Jorbles on November 15, 2015, 08:37:24 pm